1 Palin won and McCain and the JEF both lost.

2 I stopped campaigning for the good of the country!

3 'I stopped campaigning for the good of the country!'

I had sex for the good of the country!

4

really, ace?

I thought McCain looked like a lost old man in the Women's Wear department at the local Herbergers in those debates.

5 4 Can I call you, Joe?

Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at January 26, 2012 01:26 PM (qjUnn)

You betcha!

6 Finally, a post on cars. The corvette is definitely better.

7 The Corvette is made of plastic.

8

I think one of the biggest arguments from Gingrich supporters is that he will demolish Obama in the debates.

You're betting an awful lot of money on a fixed game. First, it isn't written anywhere that Obama has to appear at 3 debates. Two, the moderators are in the tank for Obama. Even worse than they were in 2008. It's like betting on a game when the referee is on the team you bet against.

Also, I don't think debates matter a whole lot. I think you can lose the election by having an awful debate(see Perry), but I don't think you can win an election by having an awesome debate.

In order to not lose a debate, the candidate just needs to appear competent.

Ask yourself this, did George Bush beat John Kerry in the debates? Did George Bush beat Al Gore in the debates? Did anyone "win" those debates?

I don't want to bet the presidency on debates. It's not like the primaries where we will have 30+ debates.

 

9 Corvette vs Mustang

Government Motors vs Ford

Hmmmm.

10 I have to agree w/garrett.  Mcamnisty was pathetic.  (Nothing to fear of a JEF presidency.) My ass.

11 Mustang v Camaro is a much more typical comparison.

12 The Corvette never won a championship.

13 All I have to say is I'm sick to death I'll have to hold my nose and pull the lever again this election.

I've still got a Rick Perry, Bitches! sticker I never got to put on my car.

*sigh*

14 Obama? A Mustang man.

15 Debates are designed to get sound bites.  Regardless of anything else said, get in a good zinger and you win.  See Noot's pouncing on King over the bitter-ex question: no one remembers anything else said in that debate.

16 In all likelihood, who the public thinks "won" a debate is pretty much going to track with who they've decided they're supporting, no matter what happens in the actual debate. >>>> Unless the debater really blows up the other guy, which Newt has a chance of doing; or a debater shoots himself, which Newt also has a chance of doing.

17 I've still got a Rick Perry, Bitches! sticker I never got to put on my car.

*sigh*
Posted by: Jane D'oh

Screw it, I think you should put it on your car, anyway.

18

Also, this may seem minor, but almost no one is endorsing Newt Gingrich.

I know endorsements tend to mean jack shit, but doesn't it bother anyone a little that no one seems to stand up for him? Specifically people he worked with while Speaker of the House or in Congress?

It'd be like a groom showing up at the wedding with no family members, friends, etc. It wouldn't be a deal breaker, but it would be unsettling if you were in the brides family.

19 McCain beat obama in the debates? What debates were you watching? I was watching the debate where McCain said obama was good man and would make a good President?

20 Finally, a post on cars. The corvette is definitely better.

I'm sick and tired of The Establishment pushing the Corvette on us as the better car.

21 Biden's never been called out by the MFM for the witless bullshit he pulled talking about how in Lebanon, the US and France kicked Hezzzzzzzzzzzzzbolla out and turned things over to the UN.  I'm still in shock that the fucking retard didn't get roundly castigated for that, which is just as bad as the dumbass garbage he spewed over in China that had the dipshits in the State Dept running for cover and issuing massive apologies.

But that illiterate chillbilly was the dumb one.....

22 The Corvette is faster (unless you're comparing a base Corvette to a Mustang GT500), and has flatter cornering with higher Gs.  But the Mustang is a better compromise between performance and driveability.  99% of people will never even approach the edge of the Mustang's performance envelope.

23 Is this a column about how debates don't matter any more? 


It seems to me that the debates are a campaign tool, like any other.  They were important for Gingrich because he was on his toes in them early even when he was apparently kind of drifting through other aspects of his campaign.  For Gingrich, they made him a serious contender.  For Perry, they killed his campaign. 

I don't know that anything more than that matters.  Trying to project what will happen in the general seems like a futile exercise to me. 

Whoever is going to beat Obama will beat him because of the full weight of the GOP supporting him after the convention.  Some of the remaining candidates can turn the debates to their advantage; others of them probably can't.  But the whole election doesn't turn on them. 


I never watch debates.  I see clips of them and read quotes from them and opinions about them.  But they do provide fodder for ads and for media spin.  So I think they can hurt more than can help, but that shouldn't be an issue for our nominee because he should have the resources for ads and appearances that will supplement the lack of debates or how they are formatted etc. 

24 Endorsements from the Establishment, which is polling lower then Obama. I'd pass.

25 So, by this logic, our nominee will win every debate.  Because most people hate that SCOAMF.

26 Oh and I thought Huckabee was the best debator in the Republican Primaries. I hated the guy, but he did come across very well in the debates.  That furthers the arguement that you can't bet it all on debates.

27 20 McCain beat obama in the debates? What debates were you watching? I was watching the debate where McCain said obama was good man and would make a good President?

Posted by: nevergiveup at January 26, 2012 01:31 PM (i6RpT)

Did McCain say that at a debate or a rally?  I don't remember it in a debate but maybe I missed it.

28 Does anyone remember the Clinton/Gingrich "debate" (95 or so).  Didn't Clinton hand Gingrich his ass in that one?

29

has flatter cornering with higher Gs.

 

Depends on the Mustang.  The 84-87 SVo and the 2000 Cobra R both outcorner the vette.

30 >>>Endorsements from the Establishment, which is polling lower then Obama. I'd pass. See, that's always the kneejerk response. Do you believe that EVERYONE who worked with Gingrich, and who thus is in a position to evaluate him as a manager and leader, is just an establishmnent sell-out who wants to prevent him from shaking up DC?

31 I've met Noot and Calista.  He strikes me as being as arrogant and thin-skinned as SCOAMF.  And Calista?  Two words:  Helmet Hair.

32

>>>They just said that Obama was better at everything.

 

Well, he is a first class poultry fornicator.

33 for destroying their Big Project.

But the house did pass articles of impeachment, didn't they? After that isn't it the Senate's bag? Did I misread that article?

34 Blaming Newt is funny because the House did its job.  It was the Senate that let Clinton off the hook..   Most the the senators didn't even bother to look at the evidence.   I'm not sure if that was because they were afraid of voter retaliation or the prospect of elevating Algore to the presidency.

35 >>> Does anyone remember the Clinton/Gingrich "debate" (95 or so). Didn't Clinton hand Gingrich his ass in that one? I don't remember that one at all. That happened? In what venue?

36 Oh god those McCain/Soetero debates were painful. but Sarah did wipe the floor with Slow Joe. That said, my 6 year old (who needs speech therapy) could out-argue Slow Joe.

37 17 has it right... Newt has the capability of handing Obama's ass to him on a platter... but he also has the capability (and potential) of handing himself his own ass as well.  The upside (and downside) of Romney is that he's likely not going to be handing out asses to anybody.

38 >> because Obama's reign of terror will continue through 2017

Through?

39 obama is gonna come at the Republican Nominee, no matter who he/she is, with things like why are you against the Middle Class and equality for all and shared sacrifice and it's all Bush and the Re[ublicans fault. And the nominee is gonna have to be able and have the balls to tell obama to cut that shit out, stop lying every time he opens his mouth, stop the class warfare, start taking responsibility for his actions, and if you don't like that, step over here and we can settle this like men

40 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable tyrant.

41 To many people Gingrich won the debates becasue he took it to the media.  I also found myself applauding him and then I realized that it doesn't have anything to do with whether he would make a good President or not.  I hate the LSM as much as anyone and I don't like any of these candidates.  But I don't see that Newt is great at much of anything other than self-promotion and playing to a crowd...sort of like Obama.  Still I'm ABO so I guess I'm stuck wtih crappy choices...again.

42 >>>Through? Yup. Well, into. January 2017.

43 Personally, I think Drudge is devoted to Ann Coulter for some kinky reason that I just can't put my finger on. And I think somewhere along the way in D.C., Newt must have badly dissed Ann. Just another worthless theory.

44 Let's just go ahead and vote for a anti-Regan, anti-2nd A, tax raising,mandate implementing conservative (really??), I am sure he will reverse every liberal position be had ever held once in office.

45 Oh and to anyone promoting Government Motors crap over Fords: GFY.

46 My theory is that Drudge and Coulter were seriously emotionally invested in the Clinton Impeachment thing more than most partisans. As invested in it as we all were (and I was seriously invested myself), they were even more invested in it.

My theory is that they're both shrill opportunists, but your theory is more interesting.

Oh, and debating skill? If you debate poorly (or come across as debating poorly), it negatively affects your chances. If you debate well, it's probably a wash.

47 you're right, changed it to into.

48 Did McCain say that at a debate or a rally? I don't remember it in a debate but maybe I missed it. Posted by: Tami at January 26, 2012 01:33 PM (X6akg) he vouched for his character in a debate

49

1. Debate skills have little to do with executive skill.
2. "most people are [dopes] as regards politics"
3. Gingrich is a good debater, but he has to be prepped and very careful on a stage with BHO, lest he appear to the "dopes" as mean, hateful, disrespectful.  The "dopes" will sympathize with BHO if Gingrich looks like he's mopping the floor with O.
4. The media will still be completely in the bag for O, and they will spin their debate reporting, finding "dog-whistles" etc everywhere.

50

The DNC media went after Newt back in the 90's for this big reason.....Newt stood up to them and told them "No".

.

Then, Clinton brazenly took credit for everything that Newt accomplished. ....And the media ran with it.

51 Mittens still needs to seal the deal with enough voters to get enough delegates to the convention.

I'll never vote for Mitt (in the primary), it's too late for him to persuade me to change my mind.  There are others who are less opposed to him who are, nevertheless, leaning toward Newt. 

Many (most?) of them are saying things like "Yes, I know all that about Newt.  I've thought about it already.  Now, instead of telling me negative things about Newt, tell me positive things about Mitt.  And, no, a nice family and good looks aren't going to cut it."

52

Drudge is devoted to Ann Coulter for some kinky reason that I just can't put my finger on.

 

If you fingered Anne Coulter her body would try digesting you.  That girl needs to eat a Bacon Double Cheeseburger.

53 Xipe Totec is looking better every day......

54 Kerry was a formal debater in school. He knew that presidential debates are not like college debates - they have no rules against logical fallacies. Kerry took advantage of that to try to put everyone of the 42 logical fallacies into what he said - Bush looked annoyed and incredulous at Kerry's tactics. Most people would  mistake that look as one of confusion.

Kerry's debate performance was a large part of why the election was as close as it was. That, and the Republicans refusal to say anything about Kerry being awarded as a "Hero of Communist Victory" by the Vietnamese government in 1983. And yes that really happened, it was in the NY Times, Houston Chronicle, and on the national network news at the time. Yes, we have a certified communist hero serving in the US senate.

55 I have a theory about the Drudge/Coulter hate, by the way.

Candidate Derangement Syndrome.

Inflating your own candidate (who sucks) beyond reality to be the guy America actually needs, and therefore so much better than the other candidates (who all suck)  that everyone supporting them deserves derision and just needs to wake the F* up and get on board with your delusions about how great your candidate is.

I was guilty at least twice in this little debacle. I'm over it now. They all suck. We're DOOMED. See all better; back to being firmly rooted in reality.

56 Sorry, but I don't think McCain won anything except New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Florida.  Then the rest of us lost.

57 so. Nitt or Mute?

58 If you fingered Anne Coulterher body would try digesting you.

Jeebus.  And I was just about to have lunch.  Brain bleach, please.

59 Romney has been running for POTUS for a long time and using his PAC money to support candidates who have endorsed him.  There's nothing wrong with that and it's good that he helped some conservatives win by helping to fund their campaigns.  The bulk of his professional life has been spent working in financial circles and helping investors make money.  That's good, too.  But I think it is not at all surprising that he has the most endorsements. 

Gingrich's role in Congress was truly herding cats.  He wasn't their boss (obviously they were elected by very different constituents in some cases), but he had to try to make them do things.  Later on he's been a pundit/talking head and other things.  He ruffled feathers along the way.  So what?

60 Ace, that comment re Newt, drudge, coulter and impeachment is a very shrewd, original insight. Dittoes!!

61

We survived Bush 1 and 2, I think we could survive a Mitt Romney presidency.   

 

To me Romney = Gingrich, so why not go with the one who has a better chance of winning?

62 I love how Top Gear will do a review of the Corvette ZR1 against a Ferrari and a Lambo.  The Corvette end up coming out on top in most categories, tied in the rest, and $100,000 cheaper.

Then they say it lost.  (Because it is American)

But in the mid tier muscle car competition, the Mustang is better than the Camaro and the Challenger.  The Corvette is better than them all, but it is designed at a much higher price point, it couldn't help but be better.

63 56 Xipe Totec is looking better every day......

Posted by: maddogg at January 26, 2012 01:39 PM (OlN4e)

Totec/Quetzacoatl '12: We're Inevitable!

64 The problem I have with Newt is his penchant for coming up with crazy policy ideas like going to Mar when we have a trillion dollar deficit or using baby blood as a cure for acne.

65 Jim Gerharty (sp?) has an interesting excerpt from Tom Coburn's book about Newt over at the Corner. Coburn says Newt used to show up at political functions with an empty ice bucket and that he could never figure out why Newt did that or what Newt was trying to say. wtf?

66 Does Obama have the vision necessary to build a moon base (to be named "Newtopia") which will allow the US to claim the Moon as the 51st state?

No?  Well fuck you then, John King, for asking the despicable question, daring to inquire what I'd do differently than Obama, you festering herpes wart.

67 Most people like to go along with the crowd.  It's easier.  That's why there is momentum in politics.  Someone gets a good poll, it gets reported and more people say, "Well, other people like this guy so I should too."  Boom - more good polls. 

Of course it works the opposite way as well.  For example you could have a politician who has a really good record on the issues, maybe with a long history of doing a good job in their position but they do badly on a couple debates...the sort of things that Presidents don't actually do once elected...and everyone starts saying that they're too dumb to hold the office.  Even the people who should know better.  Because it's easier than fighting the current and most people are lazy when they can be.

68 >> Just something to keep in mind. In all likelihood, who the public thinks "won" a debate is pretty much going to track with who they've decided they're supporting, no matter what happens in the actual debate.

See also: Confirmation Bias

69

I'd take on of those new Boss 302 Mustangs before I'd take any corvette. 

Chevy = Brand X

70 There goes any chance of a Drudge link, Ace...

71

I do not get this Newt as The Great Outsider thing.  Newt is nearly the Platonic ideal of the Washington Insider. 

 

 

72 A la Drudge, NRO's Katrina Trinko is saturating The Corner with anything and everything that could damage Gingrich. It reads like a campaign volunteer's weblog this morning.

73 I agree that Palin beat Biden, but I wouldn't say McCain won the debates against Obama... the third one maybe, but by then it was too late. McCain let Obama get away with way too much BS.

74 Ace, you're saying Drudge & Coulter think the Clinton episode was about an affair?

75

Top Gear raced a Lotus against a 2006 Mustang GT.  Lotus won but the test was dumb,  should have run it against a SVT Cobra at least.  

 

Got a Cain sticker on my Ford pick-em-up truck next to my NRA decal,  gadsden flag decal and of course my Jesus fish.

 

May just vote for him in the primary next Tuesday just because....

76

I've had two Vette's ( 85&89) and one Mustang (95). All stick . I loved the Mustang, but Dear Sweet Jesus, I adored those Vette's. 85 broke down a lot, but the 89 was absolutely spectacular.

Just sayin'

77 Well, Bob Dole just endorsed Mitt, so it's official now, my default vote goes to Newt. This is worse than 2008.

78 >> To me Romney = Gingrich, so why not go with the one who has a better chance of winning?

That's a null set.

79 Mustangs drive/ride like a tank.

80 Where do they put the Obama sticker on the Corvettes?

81 Also wtf I appear to have somehow got coffee in my hair.  Jeebus I need a keeper. 

82 >> because Obama's reign of terror will continue through 2017 Through? Posted by: Andy at January 26, 2012 01:35 PM (5Rurq) ******** Yes because I'm like a bad song- I Will Survive! OR Just Imagine!- Celine DIon signing my theme song- Aaaaaaannnd Iiiiiii Wiiiiillllll Goooooo Oooooonnn aaannnd on!

83 I guess the ampersand joined the italics and newlines.

84 "Now, instead of telling me negative things about Newt, tell me positive things about Mitt. And, no, a nice family and good looks aren't going to cut it."

^^^

This.

85 Or some bad physics.....

86
Debates? Debates??

Newt, with all his skills and knowledge, will not shine in the debates against Obama and here's an example why:

"Mr. Gingrich, I am 22 years old and I just graduated from college. How are you going to help my pay my student loans and help me find a job?"

What's Newt gonna do, give a history lesson in 90 seconds? Come up with a Big Idea?

Obama is gonna tell the young idiot that he'll pay off the loans and will provide a job. How is Newt gonna compete with that?

87

Top Gear raced a Lotus against a 2006 Mustang GT. Lotus won but the test was dumb, should have run it against a SVT Cobra at least.

My old man has one of the SVT cars.  Silly performance, ugly as Chelsea Clinton.

 

88 Mustangs drive/ride like a tank.

What kind, though? One of those awful Soviet deathtraps, or an top-of-the-line Abrams?

89 @74
I consider Newt an insider and I think that is a plus. 

90 What the fuck makes you crackers think there will be a debate if Newt is the nominee?

91 Obama's a crap debater and Palin won against Biden but it didn't matter, the wind was at Obama/D'oh's back and in the face of McCain/Palin.  It was a smelly wind, born from intestinal infortitude resulting from the blowing of large amounts of smoke up the ass of America, but it wafted D'Ohbama to victory.

92
These debates will have questions that help Obama.

All the questions in the presidential debates are designed to help the big govt candidate, i.e., the Democrat.

All the questions will be themed on "What can the government do for me?"

93 President ObamaÂ’s nominee to run the nationÂ’s Medicare and Medicaid agency can count on receiving more than $160,000 a year in retirement pay for the rest of her life from the countryÂ’s largest private hospital chain, records show. Marilyn Tavenner, a former executive at Hospital Corporation of America (HCA), was nominated in November to be administrator for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, the agency at the heart of Mr. ObamaÂ’s health care initiative. She disclosed the arrangement with her old employer in a newly filed government ethics form. No conflict of interest there? Something that might come up in a debate maybe?

94 Mustangs drive/ride like a tank.

Posted by: Dr Spank at January 26, 2012 01:43 PM (Sh42X)

 

 

You can't powerslide a tank.  Mustangs steer through throttle response and bravado.

95 >>What kind, though? One of those awful Soviet deathtraps, or an top-of-the-line Abrams?

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at January 26, 2012 01:45 PM (bjRNS)

 

T-34 was best tank of WWII, American designed suspension rejected by US Army.

96 so why not go with the one who has a better chance of winning?

Well there is a difference between the two.

Romney is very careful, Newt is not, he is a loose cannon.
As much as I fear that cannon, I think the chances, that while wildly shooting in all directions it will actually hit necessary agenda items, is greater than the chances that Romney will suddenly grow a pair of balls and become politically courageous enough to do what is needed. So while Newt has a disadvantage in the odds of getting elected he has an advantage of actually accomplishing desperately needed agenda items. So between the two I see it as an overall wash as to which one to support. So I am left to using other reasons to pick

97 "Mr. Gingrich, I am 22 years old and I just graduated from college. How are you going to help my pay my student loans and help me find a job?"

What's your degree in, son? Women's Studies?

You're on your own, son. You shoulda known better.

98 You're looking at it wrong. People voting for obama are voting for FREE STUFF, socialism, socking it to the rich, etc... You think the people voting that way give a damn about a debate?

99 it wafted D'Ohbama to victory.

Watch it.

100 This just in:

Obama fucking sucks.  Both, as a President and a human being.

101 This is worse than 2008. Posted by: Dave

Not even close.

102 Corvette vs Mustang

Government Motors vs Ford

Hmmmm.


Mustang!

103 "Now, instead of telling me negative things about Newt, tell me positive things about Mitt. And, no, a nice family and good looks aren't going to cut it." ^^^ This. Posted by: Dave in Fla at January 26, 2012 01:44 PM (RI0fC)

Dude, there are not many nice things to say about Mitt. No one disputes this. All anyone is saying is a) he is less leftwing than Noot and b) he is less unelectable than Noot.
Great choice?
No.
Right choice?
Yeah.

104 Xipe Totec is looking better every day......

Yes!  I knew I'd start making some headway.

Think I can get him on the ballot in enough States?

And before anyone says "Not a natural born citizen" there were Aztecs (or their descendents) as far north as Texas when it became a Nation and then when it was Annexed.  That means Xipe Totec was here before the nation- which gets him grandfathered in (the same way George Washington and the other first several presidents weren't "natural born" citizens- since the US hadn't existed when they were born).

105 Look, we can't have someone lying through all the debates. The Lib MMS would be relentless with their fact checking and Newt earns 4 pinocchios every debate. Romney is polished...his only real gaffe this cycle was the taxes.

106 My friends, you have nothing to fear from a Ford Mustang.

107 Jim Gerharty (sp?) has an interesting excerpt from Tom Coburn's book about Newt over at the Corner. Coburn says Newt used to show up at political functions with an empty ice bucket and that he could never figure out why Newt did that or what Newt was trying to say. wtf? ****** You can tell Coburn is an Okie, as an historian i can tell you that fundamentally-that was not an ice bucket! Absurd! That was a spittoon. Those always come in useful-rib eating, catfish deboning, vomiting up the Southern Comfort...

108 and felt that Palin was dumb

allahpunditinmyass wrote a post about how scared he was that Palin might become VP while Barky was such a genius that he could be trusted with anything. It was beyond ridiculous, of course, but that's the sort of shit that passed for "conservative opinion" in those days ...  I'm surprised the guy still has a job.

109 93
What the fuck makes you crackers think there will be a debate if Newt is the nominee?

Posted by: Obama at January 26, 2012 01:46 PM (Xm1aB)

We don't have to stand on the same stage to answer media questions.  The whole campaign is a debate.

110 T-34 was best tank of WWII, American designed suspension rejected by US Army.

Soviet tankers who rode both liked the Sherman better.

I don't think it had anything to do with the ride, though. You were going to get shot out of both, but you were more likely to get out of the Sherman alive.

111 Mustangs drive/ride like a tank.

What kind, though? One of those awful Soviet deathtraps, or an top-of-the-line Abrams?

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at January 26, 2012 01:45 PM (bjRNS)

.

.

You didn't really use that arm that the autoloader shoved into the gun anyway, comrade.

112

68
Jim Gerharty (sp?) has an interesting excerpt from Tom Coburn's book about Newt over at the Corner.

Coburn says Newt used to show up at political functions with an empty ice bucket and that he could never figure out why Newt did that or what Newt was trying to say.

wtf?

.

I remember Newt talking about all the various money-wasting things that were going on in the House when he became Speaker. .....I remember him using the "ice bucket" thing as an example of an expensive tradition that was a carry-over from the days before refrigeration.

.

So the "ice bucket" became a visual reminder that "Yes! We can cut the fat. We can cut costs."

.

I am disappointed that Coburn doesn't remember this. ....And he is my senator. I have voted for him.

113 What's your degree in, son? Women's Studies?

You're on your own, son. You shoulda known better.

Yeah, what a useless degree!

114 Anybody endorsed by Bob Dole is by definition the wrong choice.

115
If you think Newt will act like he's acting now in the debates, you're in for a shock.

Newt will NEVER behave the same way as he is now in a debate against Obama. There will not be any of this red-meat crowd-pleasing stuff in the general election debates.

116 The Mustang is really the way to go.

117 "and most people are lazy when they can be."

How many once-every-four-years voters actually watch one debate?  I suspect it was higher than usual in 2008...all those people who had never bothered to vote before catching Bieber Fever and tuning into every TV performance...but ordinarily I think it's mostly nerds like us. There's 257 channels showing something more interesting.

118 Now having just discussed muscle car, I just ordered the antithesis of them.

The new Mini Cooper roadster S.

119

They just said that Obama was better at everything.

 

---------------

 

This is happening right now. All the demos and most of the issues are breaking for whoevers in charge.

 

Because people do not like Romney. They ain't in love with Gingrich either, but how it could not be crystal clear at this point that a large section of the American electorate is repulsed by Romney I cannot fathom.

120 Oh Jeeebus, Ace.  Palin lost terribly.  She was like a deer in the headlights.

I was embarrassed for her.

121

Posted by: Dave in Fla at January 26, 2012 01:50 PM (RI0fC)

 

Did you get the matching skirt and pumps?

122 "It could be that they are so angry about that, blaming Newt for letting Clinton escape (which is a silly notion; he was getting away anyway), that they are especially hostile to Newt, for destroying their Big Project." If you understand he was getting away anywat, why would you assume they aren't as smart as you and would know that also?

123
What y'all seem to forget about the presidential debates of late is that they're all about who can pander to the broadest spectrum the bestest.

124 >> Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 26, 2012 01:47 PM (UOM4

Am I correct to presume Pixy raised you from the dead, or do you still need some help with the accidental bannination?

125

Whoever is on top of the poll, I mean.

 

The overall winner wins across the board.

126 In debates, Biden had this knack of appearing very sure of himself while spouting absolute, inaccurate bullshit. But to all appearances, he looked like he knew what he was talking about. Not many would bother to check his facts later.

127 All anyone is saying is a) he is less leftwing than Noot and b) he is less unelectable than Noot.

The second is based on facts not in evidence: really, they're saying that simply because they believe it- they have no reliable data with which to back it up.

The first is, at most, a wash based on record and (really) Newt has a more conservative record that Mittens.

So try again.

128 That means Xipe Totec was here before the nation- which gets him grandfathered in (the same way George Washington and the other first several presidents weren't "natural born" citizens- since the US hadn't existed when they were born).

Unfortunately, I think Xipe Totec gets booted for similar reasons as Alexander Hamilton was.

129

I think you are right about Coulter and Drudge, Ace.  And Emmett Tyrell, for that matter.  They despise Clinton with the fire of 10,000 suns and they (a) think Newt is pretty much the same guy, only he uses conservative lingo when it suits him, and (b) they actually blame Newt for screwing up the Clinton impeachment.

You can make a case that Gingrich screwed the pooch right off the bat when he became Speaker, and ensured Clinton's reelection.  After the 1994 election, Bill Clinton was widely considered to be burnt toast.  Nobody thought he had a snowball's chance in hell of being reelected.  But then Newt came crashing in, did stuff like draw up a list of all the federal agencies that the Republicans would eliminate, and all of a sudden he's on the cover of Newsweek as "The Gingrich Who Stole Christmas."  He took an election that was about corruption in the House and liberal overrreach on a few policy issues, and decided he had a mandate to shut down the federal government.  The backlash was swift, and severe.

I remember James Carville saying that he was going to make Newt Gingrich Bob Dole's de facto running mate in 1996, and that's exactly what he did.  There were TV ads showing Gingrich's face morphing into Dole's.  They spliced Newt's picture into everything. 

People who bitch about John Boehner not being willing to be more outrageously outraged all the time, or unwilling to shut down the government, need to know that Boehner was around when Gingrich did all of that shit, and all it got was Clinton reelected.  Boehner learned, and he has driven Pbama nuts as a result.  Obama wanted desperately to make Boehner the bad guy the way Clinton did with Gingrich, but Boehner didn't take the bait.

130 BOTTOM LINE: McCain looked awkward and wimpy next to Obama in debates. Newt looks confident and bold. it may not fit the historical narrative, but these are strange times, and its just how it is. Newt doesnt do that weird nervous laugh thing like McCain did, and now Romney does. EVERTHING has to be put into the perspective of "compared to Obama", and Romney just looks like the exact sleek/rich/ non aggressive/ aloof charicature that they have been demonizing now for years. Newt is throwing them and it shows. He may not be the everyman--but very few voters dig THAT deep into policy and past (hence Obama)-instead they hear one-liners and sound bites---Newt gives them that...and GREAT ones. (even my young Lib friends thought that JOhn King knock out was "sweet!") The reason why the "affair" thing isnt resonating with us married women, and doesnt even compare to the Clinton thing---is because Newt didnt lie, UNDER OATH, over and over again, to the entire Country about it, while he was POTUS. period. there is a BIG difference. plus only morons who dont fully grasp how much we DESPISE the freaking media and elites, think that is an important factor in this year's race. it is not. When Clinton was going though it, he was the worst at the time---this time, everything has to be compared to Obama, which is BEYOND the worst of anything we have ever seen or had to fight against. all status quo bull sh&t bets are thrown out the window this time....NOTHING can be as bad/dangerous as Obama- I dont care how many wives you've had---heck I hear my R friends saying that they actually MISS Clinton now. And so, bc of this horrible clusterfuck we have now, with a billion dollars and the media behind him, we absolutely need a TOUGH fighter to take him and his media protectors on. period. Romney comes off as wimpy, its a fact....Conservatives are tired of being represented by wimps.

131

Yes! I knew I'd start making some headway.

*sniffle*  It's okay.  Team Meteor didn't need you anyway *flees sobbing*

 

 

 

132 I don't think you have to worry about Newt getting the nod. 

Re: the 2008 debates.  Yes, McCain won the debate but only a small percentage of voters would be swayed because of it.

What elects a president is like-ability like it or not.

90 percent of those who will be voting for president will vote based on like-ability, attractiveness, how tele-genic the candidate is and how well the candidate can smoothly appeal to the emotions, verbally, a la Bill Clinton, and to some extent Barry O.

Newt's big baby head will not allow him to be elected.

Remains to be seen if Romney's appeal trumps Obie's appeal.

133 I stopped reading this when Ace said McCain beat Obama in the debates. Are you off your rocker, Ace? My friends, McCain was weak, bordering on pathetic.

134

Good post.  Here's the big thing to me, and it might have already been said in the comments...

Everybody is putting this high premium value on debates, because we've had about 25 of these things, and the media cycle has been 2 days of anticipation for the next debate, the next debate, and then 2 days of spin from the last debate.  Wash, rinse, repeat. 

It's as if people think that because debates are huge now, that's how they will always be.  It won't be that way.  I have no doubt Newt would make Obama very uncomfortable, and it will be great entertainment to watch.  Unfortunately it's only going to happen about 3 times, and the ads are what will count most. 

135 Romney is polished...his only real gaffe this cycle was the taxes.

Romney just got a pants on fire for something absolutely factual. He continues to support the Government Mandate and call it a good solution despite the fact it is the single most unpopular part of Obamacare. That is a huge huge mistake. He hasn't even alluded to a single position that might actually solve our financial/monetary woes. See my writeup on Candidate derangement syndrome. You have it.

136 The new Mini Cooper roadster S.

Man card.  Hand it over.

137 Well this thread has convinced me and I am all in for Romney.

138 Soviet tankers who rode both liked the Sherman better.

I don't think it had anything to do with the ride, though. You were going to get shot out of both, but you were more likely to get out of the Sherman alive.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at January 26, 2012 01:49 PM (bjRNS)

Really? The Brits called the Sherman the Ronson (like a lighter) because it exploded and burned so easily. The T-34 had much better armor too.

139 Ok - first - I don't think Palin won because she didnt point out the flat out lies offered up by Biden. She had numerous times she could have made him look stupid, she failed. You and I might have looked at him and an idiot, but to the regular person - they just say "you betcha blah blah blah" On Newt - I like Newt (wouldnt mind Romney either - especially when he's saying stuff about how the government does NOTHING to help anyone like himself make money and creat jobs), but we can all agree that debates with democrats are stacked decks. You won't get questions that make the democrat look bad, so to me - debating is important. I know Newt... and hell Mitt for that matter, have questions about their conservative credentials, but this election, we need someone to stop Obama's attempt to swing right of our candidate, and point out how he's a failure. I'm not certain Mitt will do that, maybe... but i know Gingrich will. When people trust Obama to lower the deficit - it's because McCain didnt challenge him on it, Newt won't fail to do that, and I hope Romney won't either, but I'm not convinced yet. After either guy is president - I have no doubt he can whip either into shape should they stumble.

140 If I were alive today (wink wink), I'd have 2 Mustangs.

141 "In debates, Biden had this knack of appearing very sure of himself while spouting absolute, inaccurate bullshit."

It's a beauty pageant. No one pays the slightest bit of attention to the content of the answers, only how they look giving them.

142 The new Mini Cooper roadster S.

Did you get one for each foot?

143 My friends, McCain was weak, bordering on pathetic.

Posted by: Travis at January 26, 2012 01:53 PM (/gUgY)

----------------------------------

You didn't like his secret debate weapon:

"Let's pay off everyone's mortgage!!!  Win-win for conservativism!"

People forget how EVERYONE's jaw dropped to the floor with that insane doozy.

144 (1) There will be no Obama-Gingrich debate.  Period.  Never will happen.  Never.  He will be praised for his clever tactical skill at not agreeing to them.

(2) If Obama acquiesces to one debate, think about it.  Newt will be favored by so many points that unless Obama collapses into a heap, sucking his thumb, he will have exceeded expectations.  Newt will be fact-checked down to his grammar.

(3) The truly undecided don't even consider actual facts at a debate they only care about "likeability".  If Newt wins "on points" (if you think that phrase is overused now, just wait), then the Luntz groups will still say, "but I liked Obama better.  Gingrich came across as too mean."

(4) The only other way to win a debate is the Lloyd Bentsen method (you remember VP Lloyd Bentsen, don't you?): Get in a zinger.  Maybe Newt can do that, but it doesn't help.

The presidential debates are like the cave in Empire Strikes Back.  What you will find there is only what you take with you.

145 If you going mini cooper, might as well go all the way -- Ariel Atom

146 "Did you get the matching skirt and pumps?"

I made sure my lipstick matches too.

147 The new Mini Cooper roadster S.

Man card. Hand it over.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Team Meteor. Now with Cheesecake at January 26, 2012 01:53 PM (8y9MW)

.

.

.

You kidding? He's going to go out on the road with huge trucks in a aluminum foil wrapper that means the slightest mistake by him or anyone on the road means instant death.

.

He's braver than a jet test pilot.

148 Jeez-Mother Jones of all places has it-first place on the google search. ************* Newt Gingrich led Republicans into power in 1994 on the promise of sweeping, transformational change—entire departments would be eliminated or consolidated, taxes would be slashed, the "corrupt welfare state" would be a thing of the past. That didn't quite work out. So as conservatives sought to keep their grip on Congress two years later, Gingrich instead sought to win the hearts and minds of voters through props. Leading up to the 1996 election, Gingrich criss-crossed the country brandishing a white bucket, as a symbol of how Gingrich had cut bureaucratic waste by eliminating an anachronistic ice delivery service to congressional offices. Dating back to before the advent of refrigeration, ice had been delivered via white buckets to each office twice a day at no cost. Gingrich boasted that the program had cut $400,000 per year from the federal budget by eliminating 23 paid staff positions. "If there was any one symbol I wish we could be remembered by, I believe it should be an ice bucket," Gingrich said at the time. "We didn't authorize a study, we didn't phase it out, we didn't call for a training program, we just went cold turkey." "If there was any one symbol I wish we could be remembered by, I believe it should be an ice bucket," said Gingrich. It was, to be sure, an absurd perk. One Democratic aide told the New York Times in 1994 that, "We tried to get it stopped, but it keeps coming—from the ice machine in the heavens, I guess"; the paper found no compelling reason why the deliveries still continued, but noted that Hill sources said "it is unacceptable for lawmakers to drink warm soda." ************

149 I don't think it had anything to do with the ride, though. You were going to get shot out of both, but you were more likely to get out of the Sherman alive.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at January 26, 2012 01:49 PM (bjRNS)

 

The Sherman was the death trap. Medium tank against heavy tank opposition. The Germans in Panthers call the Sherman "Ronson" because it lit up the first time it was hit. The same German tankers were wiped from the Eastern front by the T-34. The Sherman's stregnth was numbers, reliability, ease of repair, and American determination to drag burnt out hulks from the battlefield and recondition to fighting condition.

150 I'm still disgusted by my choices in the primary.  The only solace I have is the fact that by the time the primary comes to California it will be over.

That Bob Dole endorsement really has me charged up......

Gawd, I want a drink and be back on that cruise.

151 1. Luntz' s focus groups said zero and Palin won the debates. I leaned toward McCain and Palin winning but I was biased. 2. Was Newts leaving in 98 responsible for the cost cutting rep house morphing int demlite spending pigs? If so he gets even more credit for the then surplus. 3. What's JEF? 4. The Sunday before the Gore-Perot debate Frau Eleanor Clift predicted on " the McLaughlin " group what the media would say about who won. And she was right- almost as if she/they wrote their columns beforehand. They'll do the same with a Zero Newt debate

152
brb, singin six words

153 He's braver than a jet test pilot.

Then he should get a motorcycle.  Harley, for preference, but some of the Victories and Hondas are okay, too.

He bought a Cooper.  Then he admitted it on this blog.  He has forfeited his Man Card.

154

#133 Are you high?  Newt looks OLD and FAT in a debate next to Obama.  His voice sounds like a girl's, or like somebody who just sucked on a helium balloon.

 

155 He continues to support the Government Mandate and call it a good solution despite the fact it is the single most unpopular part of Obamacare. That is a huge huge mistake.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose
.........
No he doesn't.  He says it was a good solution for Massachusetts, not nationally.

156
brb, whinin to the governor of arizona

157 brb, projectin' optimism

158
brb, lookin for high school dropouts

159 Help a sistah out, please. What does it mean when Obama is referred to as JEF? I've tried to research it on my own, but come up with nuthin. Thanks for enlightening me.

160 "129 In debates, Biden had this knack of appearing very sure of himself while spouting absolute, inaccurate bullshit. But to all appearances, he looked like he knew what he was talking about. Not many would bother to check his facts later.

Posted by: real joe at January 26, 2012 01:51 PM (979FD)".

.

Yep.

161 Heh heh.  BMW 1 series uses the same engine. It's a sweet ride especially on turns.

And it matches my purse *grin*

162 what the hell? How can a primary electorate that knew only that it was against Romney and then fluttered from one candidate to the next for the most silly and superficial reasons get upset now that they are left with two of the worst choices?

163 brb, opening and closing the SOTU with the OBL killin', like the Eagles opening and closing with Hotel California in 78

164 3. What's JEF?

Jug Eared Fuck

165 brb, projecting Reagan out my tookus!

166 No he doesn't. He says it was a good solution for Massachusetts, not nationally.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at January 26, 2012 01:58 PM (f9c2L)

Oh and was it a good solution for Mass?  Did premiums go up?  Are more people covered?  Do they need federal funds to fund it?

167
brb, soundin Reaganesque

168 It is fortuitous that I have an appointment with my shrink today.  Reading the blog today has made me teh crazee.  I just know he is going to up the medication.

169 JEF = Jug Eared Fuck.

170

My theory on this is depressing. I beliee the winner in most Presidential elections is the most likable and empathetic to the aerage voter. Very little pragmatism going on if at all. Reagan was the master at helping the blue collar worker understand just how the libs were fooling them. Although I despised the term "Compassionate Conservatie" I think it helped frame Bush as a caring guy. We don't hae that candidate now...

 

By the way I think it was largely accepted that Gore beat Bush in the debates but people came away trusting Bush more. That is Romney's hope in my opinion. He needs to get the folks to see him as patrician and tecnocratic as much as I hate that package. Newt will hae it ery hard to be seen as either likable or empathetic but he might fool me and change the eye leel so to speak. Get America focused on a better future and not on him.

171

Palin did win. But McCain did not. He was awful. All 4 candidatees this yeaar are better on their feet than McCain. but none of them have what Obama has--black democraticum--so all will be pronounced the losers, no matter how well they do against him.  I agree w/ someone above, winning the debates will not be key. Winning the daily battle with the flying monkey media is far more important. Despite all his warts, the salamander seems to me be best able to win those battles.

 

172 This thread has me very-optimistic!

173 How are you supposed to keep a man card and ride a fucking Harley? It must be rated by weight, cause it's the worlds slowest motorcycle and the goddam thing can't corner without any lean clearance.

174 And it matches my purse *grin*

Posted by: Dave in Fla at January 26, 2012 01:59 PM (RI0fC)

 

Those are roomy cars.

175 Nodding, nodding, nodding until the Coulter / Drudge part. I don't have the faintest what goes on inside Drudge's head, so I can't say anything about that, but *probably* he just wants traffic and controversy. (More controversy even than traffic because something weird about Drudge is his Twitter links often go to the source story, not his own site. I respect that, BTW.) The thing that convinces me of Drudge's love of the scoop was his coverage of the VA race between Webb and Allen. He slammed them both with everything that came out.

As for Coulter, I suspect she's like me (and to some extent you) that she knows Obama will demolish Newt. Moreover, we will be put in the position of supporting a candidate we do not like. At all. Gingrich has the arrogance of Obama, character of Clinton, and attractiveness and likability of Rosie O'Donnell/Donald Trump all rolled together in an unbaked Pillsbury crescent roll.

If Gingrich pulls 40 percent of women voters in a general election, I would be astonished.

176
brb, tryin to memorize names of players on the Giants and Patrtiots

177 Thanks, Herr Hitler!

178
brb, decidin who to root for in the Super Bowl

179 Killin' Bin Laden-Yooooo! For my homeys-be bringin' it-sorta Reagan style!

180 Really? The Brits called the Sherman the Ronson (like a lighter) because it exploded and burned so easily. The T-34 had much better armor too.

Yeah, really. The T-34's better armor was just extra weight -- a 75L70 or a 88L56 goes right through at engagement ranges for both tanks.

If memory serves, the major complaint that the Soviets had with the T-34 had to so with ammo stowage. You set a T-34 on fire, and it was going to blow up. A Sherman (supposedly) wouldn't.

Don't know how much of this is true, or just old warhorses pumping up their favorite vehicle, but that's the story.

181 The presidential debates are like the cave in Empire Strikes Back. What you will find there is only what you take with you.

Ehhhh..... I think the media and if not them the Obama team is getting a grip on how much they can spin public opinion. They won't be able to spin away a "no-debate" as being a "good tactical decision so he's teh awesome" so they will have one, early (right after convention) and Obama will loose, the media will call it a draw, and hope everyone forgets prior to November. That's a realistic scenario. Far fewer people pay attention to fact checks than the debates themselves, I don't see anything coming up there unless Newt makes a huge huge gaffe. Newt will net a win, but unless he absolutely destroys Obama, which he has the capability to do on his good days when the meds are right, it won't be enough by itself to pocket a win. So Newt better have a humdinger of a campaign strategy too.

182

@151...tasker,

.

Thanks, tasker. ....I knew I was remember that "ice bucket" thing right. .....Dunno how Tom Coburn could've missed all that. But he was commuting back and forth between DC and Oklahoma back then, still being a pussy doctor. ....So I guess he was distracted.

183 O/T

Fox is reporting Transportation Secretary Ray Lahood's son is being barred from leaving Egypt.

Yay Arab Spring.

*now off to get my hair done*

184
brb, celebratin killin unborn babies

185 I guess my v key is not ery good.

186

 

Warren Buffett Lied, Obama's Presidency Died!

187 Oh and was it a good solution for Mass? Did premiums go up? Are more people covered? Do they need federal funds to fund it?
Posted by: Tami
......
Hey.  Ain't my job to defend MassCare.  You look it up if you wanna know.  I was simply correcting Mike The Moose's error.

But, the people of Massachusetts seem to give it good marks.  And last I heard, the Republican party was supposed to be the one rooting for states to come up with their own solutions.

188 I firmly believe all the SCOAMF does all day is watch ESPN, play golf and scan for stories that speak ill of him.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if he had and "enemies list" like Nixon.

189
brb, killin jobs and killin pipeline deals

190 Mars bitches!!

191
3. What's JEF?


Jug eared fuckstick.

192
brb, borrowin more money from China

193 The Clinton impeachment was dumb for everyone involved. Newt, Coulter, and Drudge. And I was an idiot for thinking it was a good idea then.

194 Newt:   Big Baby Head

Mitt:   Fonzie Hair

195 Doin' the Obama-Bomb Bin Laden whoop! Whoop! featurin' Reagan on the hook-up! Yo!

196 >>>>brb, opening and closing the SOTU with the OBL killin', like the Eagles opening and closing with Hotel California in 78

Wait, did the Eagles seriously do this?  Open and close their shows with this ponderous, lengthy, pretentious piece of wank? 

Already hated those fuckers, and now I hate 'em more.

197 The Corvette is made of plastic.

Posted by: garrett at January 26, 2012 01:28 PM (nKPY4)

"Wrap your ass in fiberglass"

 

198
Hey. Ain't my job to defend MassCare.


You're defending Mitt's defense of it.

199 Mars-now wit the food stamps!

200 IMO, McCain appeared as a drunken bald Hobbit during the debates.

201
brb, arrestin people for piratin Matlock episodes

202 Just because Bob Dole and Tom DeLay are among the former lawmakers attacking Newt does not make their statements less true. Newt has displayed throughout this campaign that he is erratic, prone to changing his mind, undisciplined, and a panderer. For my part, that is not to somehow excuse Mitt's many failures, just to say that Newt's critics have a valid point.

203

I have always thought Obama's debate skills were vastly overrated.  But Presidential debates are different from typical debates.  In a large part, it is mostly about connecting with the audience.  You don't win on technicalities, you win on ability to persuade the audience, no matter how you do so.  Few politicians are truly that gifted.  Reagan was, Clinton was, Palin was and Newt can.  Mitt's debate skills are just as overrated.  But most candidates just aren't that good at debates.  Santorum is probably the best current debater in terms of setting up the argument and making it.  But since he does not come off as very likable it is hard to say he has ever won a debate.

Good theory on Coulter/Drudge.  Could be they just really don't want to be branded as hypocrites, so they have to support Mitt and support him strong.

 

204

I'd vote for the best conservative, if I could only figure out who that might be.

Even if the Won wins again, we will control Congress (and for a long time to come).  That's because Blue states are totally boned and Red states are growing.  So worry not! 

205 Obama clearly won the debates with McCain.

For the VP debate, plenty of people were pleased with Palin's performance, but even more were with Biden. Both candidates "won" by improving their standing, but since Palin's standing was so much lower to begin with, it was seen that she "lost" the debate to Biden.

The reason Newt is doing awesome in the primaries is because there's a debate twice a week. When Obama sticks to the mandated 3, which are far away from the election, or even ducks some of the 3, Newt's advantage will mean nothing.

I'm not even sure you can "win" debates, but you sure can lose them. Sure as your Chakra . . .

206 187.....*remembering .....sheesh.

207 brb, got a meet -up with this Missy named-Solyndra!

208 209 I'd vote for the best conservative, ifI could onlyfigure out who that might be.
Even if the Won wins again, we will control Congress (and for a long time to come). That's because Blue states are totally boned and Red states are growing. So worry not!

Posted by: MTF at January 26, 2012 02:08 PM (B5y+v)

That position assumes that Bambi would play by the constitution. Given his willingness to subvert it, that's not a safe assumption anymore.

209 You're defending Mitt's defense of it.
Posted by: Tami
......
Geeeeez.  No.  I said Mitt has not defended having a mandate on the federal level.  He is against it.  But he says it worked for Massachusetts.

How much simpler can I make it for you?

210 -->But, the people of Massachusetts seem to give it good marks.

They re-elected Deval Patrick.  'Nuff said.

-->And last I heard, the Republican party was supposed to be the one rooting for states to come up with their own solutions.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at January 26, 2012 02:04 PM (f9c2L)

Uncle Sam helps out with the money problems it's causing them.  Not a "state" solution.

Stop trying to defend Mitt's view of health care.  It's awful.  He wants every single state to adopt an individual mandate, and he's happy to use federal coercion (money) to do it.  That makes him like a federal mandate in effect.  That's what he's STILL arguing for.  He's an idiot.

211

Mitt v. Obama

= =

Fonzie v. Alfred E. Newman

212 Newt is an unmitigated disaster of epic proportions. 

That is all.

213 No he doesn't. He says it was a good solution for Massachusetts, not nationally.

That distinction means something to us. It means nothing to anyone in the middle who couldn't tell you a damn thing about the 10th amendment, and even less about Obamacare other than, it came from Romneycare (Trust me they will know that come Nov) it made their health insurance premiums skyrocket, and it has this mandate they hate.

His drawing the fine political line is both meaningless to us conservatives (The mandate IS a bad idea at the State level too, and you shouldn't be supporting it) and meaningless to the uninformed middle (Wha? Where? Didn't he write Obamacare)

He has been politically deaf, dumb, mute, blind, and lost sensation in his toes, on the biggest bludgeon we have to hammer Obama with. There is no way to sugarcoat this gaffe behind the 10th amendment.

See my writeup on CDS, you may be suffering.

214

Newt debates like he fucks; hard, fast and obnoxious.

215 Did Ace mention what he got on the bubble thickness?

216 excuse Mitt's many failures, just to say that Newt's critics have a valid point.

Posted by: M80B at January 26, 2012 02:08 PM (d6QMz)

Both sides have a valid point. Might as well flip a coin.

217 My notes say Solyndra is hot does it Fast and Furious and on the down -I'am there!

218 There's one of those new ZR1? Vettes up the street.  Goodbye Officer Red, clear plastic hood insert, polished supercharger, etc.  It sits outside in a parking lot across the street from any house.  It's either a cop bait car or he set it up like a salt lick for deer.

219 But, the people of Massachusetts seem to give it good marks. And last I heard, the Republican party was supposed to be the one rooting for states to come up with their own solutions.

I can't believe I'm going to say this...

Yes, if government control of healthcare is going to originate anywhere, it should be the state level.  That's Federalism, we're cool with that as far as it goes.

But then there's the Conservative question of: are mandates Conservative.

Now, on a spectrum with Socialized Health Care on one end, and minimally regulated truly free marked on the other, Mandates do score slightly better than Socialized Health Care (though they actually give up the fight and, absent some outside agency {Federal Taxpayer dollars}, will lead to full on Socialized Health Care).  But they're still closer to the Liberal/Collectivist end of that spectrum than the Conservative/Individualist end.

And Mitt still defends the mandate.  He doesn't say (that I've ever heard) hey, the Mandate was the best option I had available, it was better than the available alternative of socialized medicine, and more conservative states are lucky they'll never be faced with that choice."

He says that it was the "right thing" for Massachusetts, and that it should be a model for other states to follow.  He, further, says that mandates are "fundamentally conservative."

Now, tell me why he would take a "fundamentally conservative" idea that is a  "model for other states to follow" and have it removed from Federal law.  Even the strongest, most staunch supporter of the 10th Amendment would be sorely tempted to leave something in Federal law that they approved of so much.

And that's even before I get to ripping the idea that the mandate is "fundamentally conservative" itself.

220

The nerve of some people!!

 

I gave my wife an orgasm

 

And she spit it out!!

221 'Newt debates like he fucks; hard, fast and obnoxious.'

And like in debates, I come early and often!

222

If you shot a King Tiger in the rear turret it would blow.

 

Unless you shot paint shells baby.

223 Telling the truth make one in the bag for the other guy or something.
Everything Drudge etal are showing will be shown in August to November from the DNC. Now the DNC will be in the bag for Mitt.

224 Unless you shot paint shells baby.

Posted by: SGT. Oddball at January 26, 2012 02:14 PM (PddVe)

Always with the negative vibes, Moriarty.

225 227 If you shot a King Tiger in the rear turret it would blow.

Unless you shot paint shells baby.

Posted by: SGT. Oddball at January 26, 2012 02:14 PM (PddVe)

Enough with the negative waves.

226 207 Just because Bob Dole and Tom DeLay are among the former lawmakers
attacking Newt does not make their statements less true. Newt has
displayed throughout this campaign that he is erratic, prone to changing
his mind, undisciplined, and a panderer. For my part, that is not to somehow excuse Mitt's many failures, just to say that Newt's critics have a valid point.

Posted by: M80B at January 26, 2012 02:08 PM (d6QMz)

.

If you put their records side by side.....Mitt vs Newt.....and look at which one has done more to forward the cause of conservative principles.....then, Newt is the one who shines.

.

Mitt has a record of fighting for his own self interests and profits. .....Newt has a record of fighting for us little guys. .....This is why I think that Newt would attract more voters, to get off their asses and go vote for him in the general. 

227 Dammit, the rodents beat me to it!

228 It's like a Miller lite ad except both arguments are negative. "Tastes like crap, will kill ya!'

I hereby award the thread to the dead (maybe?) cat. 

229 The MSM will decide who wins the (one) debate in the general election which is why conservatives love to see Newt stick it to those fuckers.  Palin outright won the debate with Biden, it was not simply a matter of exceeding expectations.  All you had to do was be watching the grools at MSNBC right after the debate ended to see that; they wuz confused, narrative temporarily disrupted.  And yet there are people who are convinced she lost.  Because, like, Biden lied about something and she didn't immediately call him out on it.  And, um, yeah.  That.

230
My take was Palin definitely won easy, I put McCain at 1-1-1.  Although I thought his points were better, the ones I thought he lost and tied, were the ones I could tell OdipO was doing his mocking manner of saying nothing but I knew he was connecting to the dumb voters and let's face it, "the 4 more years of Bush/McCain bullcrap" worked on them.

231 201

I don't know that, but speaking of pretentious rockers, I DO know that U2 opened and closed shows with Vertigo in the summer of 05.

232
To me Romney = Gingrich, so why not go with the one who has a better chance of winning?

Posted by: Ben at January 26, 2012 01:40 PM (wuv1c)

Well, Romney is the one the Democrats want to run against - which is strong enough evidence that he is the wrong one.

I watched a Dem admit that Romney is the one they want as the Repub candidate on TV on New Years day - when they thought no one was watching. I think the quote was "Romney is the weakest candidate".

233 they have no reliable data with which to back it up. Romney v 0 http://tinyurl.com/7m75v48 Gingbat v 0 http://tinyurl.com/7p4zcxz

234 My recollection is that Palin won on style and substance and that Mcain won two and lost one on substance and lost all three on style. Obama looked and sounded better in all three and Mccain's worst was the townhall debate (that he was supposed to be good at) where he lost his train of thought a couple of times and just babbled. Bullshit beats babbling every time.

235 Jeezis.  Tammy Bruce just played a clip of Bite-me doing a fake Indian accent for the voice of a call center.  What a fucking embarrassing idiot that Scranton shitstain is.

236 To me, it boils down to this: People in the middle often vote for the person they like the best. They liked Obama. They didn't listen carefully to what he said, or consider the substance of it - they liked him.

Will they like Newt? Yeah...I don't think so either.

237 Hey, anybody else notice how much Drudge has been bashing Newt?

238 As a Dittohead, I'm proud to have spent the past 20 years passively sitting on my arse by the radio, being spoon fed a pile of dogma by a guy who flunked out of a podunk college.  As a values voter, I'm honored to have projected my own moral failings upon Republican candidates for secular political offices, and to have allowed petty pet peeves of mine to influence whether and to what extent I've participated in electoral politics.  Most of all, as a totally irrational political malcontent, the greatest achievements of my life have been helping to elect liberal Democrats to the presidency, from Jimmy Carter, to Bill Clinton, to Barack Obama.  In due course, come November, I proudly will help reelect Obama to yet another term in office.  Palin-Angle-O'Donnell, '16.

239 Will they like Newt? Romney? Yeah...I don't think so either.

Just as accurate.

240 looks my state is gonna piss off the Romney Derangment Syndrome sufferers

241

@ 210

Put down that crack pipe!  Biden was Godawful in the VP debates, just bloviating and spitting out "facts" (many ofwhich were pure bullshit, the 'Factchecker' news organizations reported after the one debate that Biden had made 19 false claims or as I like to call it, Makin' Shit Up).  Palin pwned him and his Botoxed forehead.  And no, I don' belong to any Palin fanclub.  But if you are not well informed about the state of our country, as I suspect many partisan Dem voters are not, then you probably couldn't see past Biden's BS and you would think he won.

242 <<I hereby award the thread to the dead (maybe?) cat.>>

Bounce!

243 Happy Australia Day, pixy!

244 What gives you the idea that I'm being biased?

245

A Tiger or Panther could shoot a Sherman in the thickest frontal armor and get deadly penetration. The Sherman's plate was onlty 2.5" thick at the thickest point.

 

Take a look.

http://tinyurl.com/6w8vzun

 

246 Now, tell me why he would take a "fundamentally conservative" idea that is a "model for other states to follow" and have it removed from Federal law.

Because everybody else will demand that he does.

If any Republican gets elected President, that president will have a mandate to repeal ObamaCare.  Period.

247

248 Wow TIPM. Here's the Fearless Slayer of Straw Men with gold hay fringe medal.

249 #215 the Federal money they are using in MA is part of the Medicaid money that each state is allocated. In fact one of the conservative things Romney did if you count being in favor of states rights is to get the federal givernment to give MA a waiver so they could use that allocation as the state saw fit and not at the Feds direction. This money would be allocated to MA with or without Romneycare.

250

But then there's the Conservative question of: are mandates Conservative.

Newt & Heritage sure seemed to think so

251

AlenG, I have actually heard Romney say that the individual mandate was his best option at the time, not necessarily his preferred option.  He says the alternative was either a single-payer totally state-run healthcare program or a program based on an employer mandate.  Romney was smart enough to know that an employer mandate would do nothing but drive businesses and jobs away from Massachusetts and reduce wage growth as companies had to soak up the cost of coverage.  Also there are always whines from small business to exempt them, and so you never get to 100% coverage. 

 

However, I don;t think there is much doubt that Romney wanted to "solve the health-care crisis" in Massachusetts because he thought it would  burnish his credentials in a Presidential race in 2008.  EVERYONE at that time thought Hillary Clinton was going to be the Democratic nominee, nobody saw a financial collapse coming that would overshadow all the other issues in that race, and Romney thought he could score with Democratic and independent voters as the guy who solved the health care problem, in contrast to Hillary who couldn't get it done because her program was too government-focused and too complicated. 

 

I've always thought it was very unfair to just use 20/20 hindsight on Romney about this. 

252 Drudge is just mad Newt is screwing it up for Uncle Paul

253 To me, it boils down to this: People in the middle often vote for the person they like the best. They liked Obama. They didn't listen carefully to what he said, or consider the substance of it - they liked him.

Good point.  A lot of the mushy middle doesn't loathe Obama, they attempt to explain away his failures instead.

254 I like Gingrich OK, and I surely enjoyed watching him punch some MSM schmucks in the mouth on behalf of all us who've wanted to for longer than anyone can remember, but the time has now come to face the facts:

Newt now has to be sacrificed on the altar of electability so that Romney will have as good a chance as possible to beat Obama.  Don't even start with me about Santorum, and neither Paul nor the debacle of a brokered convention is a realistic solution.

If this were the Mafia, the Don would have already waived his index finger dispatching the goons to go take Gingrich out.  And don't even bother protesting ... he's gone, and there's nothing we could do about it ....

I don't like it, I didn't want this to happen, and I hate the way it's gone down.  Nonetheless, that's just the way it fucking is.

Let's move on to beating Obama, however imperfect a vessel Romney may be.

255 @ 255 oops, Newt & Heritage*

256 Looks like you guys need a Third Way!

257 I'm not going to defend the mandate at any level.  It is market-oriented socialism.

So, yeah..less socialism than Medicare-For-All but more so than I want to see.

But, remember what Ryan proposed for Medicare... the exact same market-oriented approach, but with the taxpayer footing the bill.  Low info voters are not going to see the distinctions.

That said.. I defend Massachusett's right to do whatever the hell it likes.  I believe 10th Amendment issues should trump any other considerations.  The complicated part about Mass's health care reform is they are using federal funds - but I believe it is federal funds they would have received anyway for Medicaid, etc... which looks a lot like the GOP idea of changing Medicaid to block grants and allowing states to administer them as they see fit.

258 What I'm finding is that it is the bashing that is pushing me to vote for the person getting bashed.

AFCSME bashes Mitt, I want to vote for him.

NRO/Drudge bashes Newt, I want to vote for him.

Why won't anyone bash Santorum?  I feel like I'm missing some of the experience.

259

@ 244

Commie Troll Alert!   Must be an election year, the Unions are sending out the Trolls to the comments sections of Conservative/Libertarian websites.

260 ok I cant get a handle of this new html crap, let me be clear: Newt And heritage*

261 @ 265 thats no troll

262 Looks like you guys need a Third Way!

Just sing me a song about your conservative enlightenment. Trust me I am ready to believe.

263 @ 264 no one's bashing Santorum? i'll gladly help with that

264 The best solution is that neither Newtzilla nor Obamzilla wins. Then they can sign up for that much anticipated debate/smackdown on Pay Per View and each earn millions (why waste all your good stuff on Davos?). I would love to see that one.

265 Good point. A lot of the mushy middle doesn't loathe Obama, they attempt to explain away his failures instead.
Posted by: chemjeff
.......
Obama's personal likability is still very high.  People will still vote for him against someone as dis-likable as Newt.. and to some extent Romney who comes across as cold.

266

John McCain did not win the debates.  He got clobbered stylistically, and passed up so many opportunities to beat Obama on substance as well.  People underestimate the impact of McCain's inept debate performances.  Two months before the election, the jury was still out on both men.  McCain showed himself to be a little weird, lacking in "fight", too much "me too", and ultimately gave voters no reason to vote for him.  If your best selling point is your ability to work with Democrats like "my good friend Russ Feingold" then why wouldn't people just vote for a Democrat?

Obama seemed, by contrast, more knowledgable, more likeable, cooler, more measured, reasonable, etc. 

267 247 Biden was Godawful in the VP debates

To us, yeah. But . . .

if you are not well informed about the state of our country, as I suspect many partisan Dem voters are not, then you probably couldn't see past Biden's BS and you would think he won.

And that's why Biden got such high marks and "won" the debate.

More people watched that debate than any of the 3 McCain/SCOAMF ones. People who are not well informed about the state of the country.

They didn't see past Biden's BS.

268 O/T:

Local radio cut off Limbaugh at 2:00 to cover Paterno's memorial service.

269
btw, I think Drudge is banging Coulter, or is trying to bang Coulter.  That's what I am going with and sticking to it.

270 Biden.  Or rather, Joe from Scranton.  The people of Delaware must be pissed.  For 36 years they thought they had 2 Senators in DC, turns out Pennsylvania had 3, who knew!

271 They didn't see past Biden's BS.

Posted by: The Q at January 26, 2012 02:27 PM (LnQhT)

 

Nor their  white-hot  disdain/hatred for Palin.

272 Mitt is an unmitigated bore that will keep voter turnout pathetic, leading to losses in the House and Senate.


quoting ^^^^

No what's pathetic is low turnout because they don't like their preferred candidate.

Waaaa. Have some more whine with your cheese.

Still waiting for someone to give me some evidence Newt can bring in some fence-sitters.

Oh right, we don't need them.

273 i dont know how anyone can think that palin won that debate w/ biden. after all, the US and france got together and kicked hezbollah out of lebanon.

274 Disclosure: I am unhappy with all the candidates. None of them has spoken to me. Some points:

1. Do not trust Romney over Obamacare.
2. MSM loves Romney. MSM loved McCain. To me, this says Obama second term.
3. Yes, I worry about trust issues with Newt. However, he is still better than the JEF.
4. Does Newt's ego worry me? Yes. More than Obama second term? No.
5. Does Romney's squishiness worry me? Yes. See him as mormon Obama lite.

I am beginning to think I should just give up on following politics, and devote myself to UFO's and funny pictures of cats. Because there is no one out there who I really like.

/will probably vote for either Santorum or Gingrich in my primary

275 re: man-cards & Mini Cooper S
Put it under the wiper and dare him to take it.  Have good blades or it may slide out.

re: Health Care mandates being conservative.  Who cares?  They're a fundamentally wrong idea and unconstitutional to boot.  If your alive you have to buy this.  Fuck that. 

276

Saw somewhere that Norm  "Obamacare will never be repealed"  Coleman  -  Mitt's Campaign Manager  -  is also rumored to be his choice for HHS Secretary if he wins the election.

 

Great  -  we know how hard the guy is gonna fight to try and get rid of it.  He's putting someone in charge who couldn't beat Al  "Stuart Smalley"  Franken, for Heaven's sake.....

277 274 O/T:

Local radio cut off Limbaugh at 2:00 to cover Paterno's memorial service.

Posted by: Ed Anger - Certified Kos Kid at January 26, 2012 02:28 PM (7+pP9)

Are you in Harrisburg/Happy Valley?

278

The McCain/Obama debate is a bad comparison. Obama didn't have a record then, it was a debate about Obama's philosophy vs. McCains somewhat confusing record.

Obama has a record now, either Gingrich or Romney will beat him easily. Gingrich is better at attacking so I would give the edge to him.

The problem is there will be a small number of debates and CBS and CNN will come out with flash polls saying Obama won and that will be the story regardless of what happens.

Regarding Obamacare Obama has a good defense against both Gingrich and Romney. Romney enacted something similiar and Gingrich was for something similiar for 20 years.

279 I don't know if I'm hopelessly in the tank or what, but I thought Palin beat Biden, and I thought McCain beat Obama in their debates.

Of course they did. There was no question from thinking people. But we were bound and determined to elect the first black president as an act of racial charity and atonement.

That dynamic won't be in play in 2012, especially since Obama can't actually do anything well. Prior to 2008 he had no record as a national leader. Now he does.

When the GOP decides on the nominee and begins unloading on Obama in ads, you'll see what I mean, especially now that this will be an election without McCain-Feingold hamstringing the Republicans.

It's going to be glorious.

280 Obama seemed, by contrast, more knowledgable, more likeable, cooler, more measured, reasonable, etc. Posted by: SamInVA
.........
Plus, he outright lied about himself.  He put himself across as a pragmatic centrist when he's really a left-wing commie.

281 That said.. I defend Massachusett's right to do whatever the hell it likes. I believe 10th Amendment issues should trump any other considerations.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at January 26, 2012 02:25 PM (f9c2L)

We all agree with this.  Massachusettes has every right to make itself an insolvent pinko shithole, if that's what the state citizenry want.  But, they have to pay for it themselves and, most importantly, I don't want anyone reflecting that view of government getting in at the federal level, whether he has a healthy respect for the 10th amendment or not.  He brings BAD IDEAS with him.  Interestingly, Mittens has never defended any position as consistently or as vigorously as the Massachusettes individual mandate.  At best, he just understand how much that sort of talk really grates on conservatives and Tea Partiers, who want ObamaCare pursued with full vigor until it is gone, in whole.  Not replaced.  Not defunded.  Not waived out.  GONE.  Mitt doesn't understand this or, for whatever demented reason, has decided to push back against that the same exact way that that piece of shit McShame pushed back against us to collude with illegals against America.

282

Newt on the stump and in sound bites beats Romney like a rented mule ...  his skills extend well beyond the debate floor ...

 

 

283

The closer we get to the convention, the less I give a fuck who wins the nomination. They're both zeroes and we're all going to die

 

Obama will debate Romnich and the headlines will all read that he mopped the floor with Mewtt's ass and that will be the perceived reality.

 

BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!

BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!

284

Forget about the debates - they are only relevant during the primaries anyway.  The real issue to concentrate on is how would our nominee campaign during the general?  Newt has high negatives, but I believe that could be turned around given enough cash to mount a solid advertisement campaign.  Newt can also be legitimately contrasted with Obama on numerous policy positions.  Yes, Newt is known for supporting a healthcare mandate, but that was a common position among the conservative intelligentsia back in the 80's and 90's (Heritage Foundation).

Then we have Obama Romney.  Really, I don't see much difference between Obama and Romney except that Romney did earn a living.  Why would anyone choose to vote for Romney vs BarkyPants?

285 Also, on the 2008 debates, remember that the one that was supposed to be about foreign policy happened right after the Disaaster Week that followed the collapse of Lehman Bros. and the Congressional votes on the TARP, when McCain "suspended" his campaign.  In fact, McCain didn't even decide to do that debate until the day it happened.  He looked like an indecisive tool before it even started.  So what looked like it should have been a clear win for McCain on his turf of foreign policy, got taken away from him because they had to talk about the financial crisis, and Obama was able to remind people how pissed off they still were at Bush.  McCain really did kill him on the actual foreign policy questions in that debate, but nobody remembered it.  He lost the election that week. 

286

@ 279

Lebanon?  Is that one of our 57 states?

287 @ 278 you're asking for a reply that isn't "Romney is a RINO and we must stop him", what do you expect?

288 Ben,

Bush ultimately won all three debates in 2004. The first one he was tired and a bit irritable and lost on style and Kerry got a big boost, the other two were straight wins. As the campaign wore on even the first debate worked to Bush's advantage. What people remembered from the debates when they went to the booth was 1."Global test?",2."Wanna buy some wood?", and 3."Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian".

289 Ooops, sorry about that last post.  Not sure WTF happened with the formatting.

290 Gingrich plays to the crowd, which is why he gets pissed if they are silenced.

You don't need substance if you can toss some red meat at the right time.

The lying punk has now admitted he did NOT "offer witnesses to ABC" who would refute his ex-wife's claims, and that there are no such witnesses, they do not exist.

But, shucks, Clem, that Newt shore put down that CNN pansy, di'n't he?

291

@ 286

SFT

292 290

Normal
0




false
false
false

EN-US
X-NONE
X-NONE

Dude. Seriously radical position.

293 Dick Cheney's beatdown of John Edwards was one of the most glorious things ever aired on television, right after the Moon landing.

294 Regarding the Newt bucket thing above- According to (I think) today's "Plum Line", Romney's team is going to go with a strategy of portraying Newt as emotionally and mentally unbalanced. This is probably part of that. A-a-a-a-a-and once again we see Mittens really was influenced by his youthful infatuation with Saul Alinsky. Nothing positive. No reason for supporting Romney. Just crappy underhanded attacks. Yet, Obama is a nice fellow. He's just overwhelmed. Next we'll hear there's nothing to fear from an Obama 2nd term. Yeesh.

295 There is one sure-fire way to win an election:  voter fraud.

296 He says the alternative was either a single-payer totally state-run healthcare program or a program based on an employer mandate.

I've heard him say that a time or two, but he keeps returning to "right solution for Massachusetts" and "fundamentally conservative."

It's almost like he believes it was fundamentally conservative and the right solution for Massachusetts, but realizes that most of us disagree with that assessment and so tries to hedge his bets.  When he remembers, of course.

297 >>There is one sure-fire way to win an election: voter fraud.<<

The Dems are already working that angle.

298 232 207 If you put their records side by side.....Mitt vs Newt.....and look at which one has done more to forward the cause of conservative principles.....then, Newt is the one who shines.
.
Newt has an overall better record in office, even though he did become less conservative at the end of his tenure. But he has lately endorsed some of the same ideas for which Romney has rightly been criticized. I can understand a politician being pragmatic under certain circumstances and forgive them for certain stances if they seemed to have learned from the experience, but Newt has been pragmatic out of office and Romney inconsistent on some aspects of his record.  

299
Speaking of Joe Pa, btw ,..who I kinda killed off, ...

Gov Corbett (R) ordered the flags to be flown half-staff in honor of Joepa.

But Joepa's family requested that the governor not attend the service for Joe. Why?

Because the governor is on the board of trustees for Penn State and at the end of the conference call discussing the fate of Joe Paterno at the university, the family heard him Gov Corbett say to the other trustees, "Remember that little boy in the shower."

300 I see the Axelrod paid trolls are out in full force pushing Romney. He is Obama's only chance at winning.


Oh, by the way, the polling companies make up the polls completely at this time of year - the only time they get real instead of saying what the pollsters want them to say is just before the election when their credibility is on the line.


The internal polls are the accurate ones and I don't thing Romney likes what his say, and I really don't think Obozo likes what his say.


The guy who gets the votes is the most electable - that is why we have primaries.

Oh and by the way Fuck you Axelrod you piece of shit.

301 The lying punk has now admitted he did NOT "offer witnesses to ABC" who would refute his ex-wife's claims, and that there are no such witnesses, they do not exist.

But, shucks, Clem, that Newt shore put down that CNN pansy, di'n't he?
Posted by: Adjoran
...............
Yeah.. Here's the link:

http://tinyurl.com/7stsq5p

And it is this kind of shit that is going to kill us in the general.  The man will say anything and make up shit out of whole cloth on the fly.

302 @306
Good for Corbett. 

303 I don't think Drudge and Ann Coulter are emotionally invested in the nominee being "Not Newt" because of the Clinton stuff.  I think it purely about having spent three years longing for the Republican that can beat Obama and getting a pit in their stomach at the thought of the GOP nominating a guy that could implode in the General Election and hand Obama a victory by the force of his own screwups.  And I like Newt, but I'm not going to pretend he isn't fully capable of screwing things up (again). 

304 If the SOTU is any indicator, people might not even watch the debates because they're tired of hearing Obama's voice.

305 How will play if Obama keeps comparing himself to Lincoln while dodging the Lincoln/Gingrich debates?

306 I like Ike.

307 294

You got the order wrong.

I remember Bush's confusion and weariness in the first debate and him overcompensating by screaming at Kerry over our allies in one of the other ones ("You tell that to Tony Blair!").

But more than anything, I (and most everyone voting that year) remember Silky Pony bringing up the lesbian stuff. THAT was a definite #1.

308 I don't think he can stop comparing himself to Lincoln.

309 They ought to outlaw these debates, which are beyond useless and are the reason the GOP primary has been largely whittled down to a soulless plastic Ken doll and an ego maniacal open marriage loose cannon. 

Gawd, I can't believe the GOP can't do any better than this ... wait, yes I can.

Fuck.

310

 

Gov Corbett say to the other trustees, "Remember that little boy in the shower."

 

He stole that from Jefferson's speech to the his soldiers at the battle of Big Littlehorn during the Meso-American War.

311

Let me crystalize the Newt vs. Mitt problem:

Newt has high negatives, few friends, personal baggage, and a problem with moderates & independents.

Mitt Romney sucks in every way. 

These are the poisons from which we pick.

312 299 Dick Cheney's beatdown of John Edwards was one of the most glorious things ever aired on television, right after the Moon landing.

Posted by: Blacksheep at January 26, 2012 02:36 PM (8/DeP)

What are you ten years old?  We can't afford to be great like that again

313 So, to paraphrase Insty, which is the best syphilitic camel that can beat Obama?

314

SO, lemme see if I got this straight....

- John McCain really won the 2008 debates

- Newt is absolutely unelectable

- Romney is totally electable and will beat the pants off of 0bama

Nope, not buying any of it.

315

Because the governor is on the board of trustees for Penn State and at the end of the conference call discussing the fate of Joe Paterno at the university, the family heard him Gov Corbett say to the other trustees, "Remember that little boy in the shower."

 

Good for him. My new ticket is Brewer/Corbett with Cooter as a backup

316 Let's move on to beating Obama, however imperfect a vessel Romney may be.

Posted by: Blacksheep at January 26, 2012 02:24 PM (8/DeP)

The lesser evil.

One more time, again. How's that been working out?

317 The guy who gets the votes is the most electable - that is why we have primaries.

Oh and by the way Fuck you Axelrod you piece of shit.

You tell 'em!!!

318

" "Remember that little boy in the shower.""

 

That never happened. Joe Pa was ran off unjustly, just because.

319 Drinkin some wine, eatin some cheese.....you know.

320 How will play if Obama keeps comparing himself to Lincoln while dodging the Lincoln/Gingrich debates?

If the non-Tea Party public hasn't taken notice of blatantly unconstitutional moves like his recess appointments, are they really going to listen to Newt complaining that Obama won't debate him? 

321 Romney isn't the lesser evil anyway but the greater.  GOP endorsed Ocare and a VAT are worse than anything Newt offers

322

I'd like to see a heated Gingrich/Obama debate wherein Newt plays the role of the kid who believes his own eyes and exclaims, "The Emperor has no clothes!"  And afterwards, it becomes apparent to the 52%  that they were badly deceived by the MBM.

 

Never happen, though.

323

My theory is that Drudge and Coulter were seriously emotionally invested in the Clinton Impeachment thing more than most partisans. As invested in it as we all were (and I was seriously invested myself), they were even more invested in it.

It wasn't just politics to them. It was personal -- this was Their Thing.

Now, Newt's affair complicated the narrative for them on this.

If I remember correctly, the impeachment was for Clinton committing a felony, not for screwing Monica in her cooter with a cigar. You know, the same felony that got him disbarred in Arkansas?

I don't think that Newt's affair rises to the level of a felony. And I do think that if Obummer ever does accept a debate invitation against the Newtster, Newt will be able to finally make the idiots that voted for the SCOAMF realize what an idiot he really is -- even with the LSM rooting for Obummer.

324 Hey, let's vote for the Harvard Law grad...er...the Republican Harvard Law grad. Those Ivy League presidents have been all full of win.

325

Yesterday Chris Plante said that in the original Manchurian Candidate with Angela Lansbury there were busts and pics and references to Lincoln all over because getting the communist president in there was going to be like freeing the slaves. He said he thought of the movie Manchurian Candidate Lincoln references everytime this douchebag does the same thing. Could be Bumbles saw the move too, or Frank Marshall Davis and he cuddled up on the lanai and watched it.

326

>>>If the non-Tea Party public hasn't taken notice of blatantly
unconstitutional moves like his recess appointments, are they really
going to listen to Newt complaining that Obama won't debate him?

 

Who says they haven't taken notice?

 

Were you out of the country in 2010???

327 I don't like mittens.  And the more the minions attack newt, the crew lining up opposite newt, the more the independents are looking at newt. 

328 Have you seen his approval numbers?

329 267 @ 265 thats no troll

Posted by: AuthorLMendez HATES Primaries at January 26, 2012 02:26 PM (yAor6)

Whatever it is, its obviously never listened to Rush, but knows everything he says (like every leftist I've ever met).  It also has a lot to learn about satire. 

330 A puffy bag of suet with raisins for eyes vs Dumbo the Magnificent... the visuals are against us.

331 I remember the silky pony beat down but Kerry shot his mouth off about Cheney's daughter,too. He dropped a reference to her in his closing statement at the last debate and looked like a real dick (err, even more so than usual) for doing it.

332 I'd say this about Newt - if he is the nominee and does win the election, watching him react to some of the stupid things foreign leaders say and do will be very entertaining. At least, I'm pretty sure bowing deeply and deferentially is not going to be one of his strategies.

333 All of us are living in interesting times.

334 Bwarney Frank getting married re weasel zippers

335

Sure, Newt can screw up, but I really don't think Captain Plastic can beat King Putt. They'll destroy him over his wealth, his houses, his religion, his hair and anything else they can think of. When the fucks in the press get done with him, he'll be whimpering and sucking his perfectly manicured thumb, and we'll be floating down shit's creek without a paddle.

If I'm going down, I want a fighter, not a pansy, to go down with me.

336 Because Romney is the guy we can count on to make the conservative case.

337

WTF?! Bob Dole is getting in on this action? Bob Dole knows what it takes to win elections now???!?

338 This is as appropriate on this thread as anywhere, per the Weekly Standard:  At an event today in Rochester, New Hampshire, Vice President Joe Biden used an Indian accent to imitate call service employees

I believe that would be dot as opposed to feather. Hey, maybe that's why they're called dot coms! 

339

Nominating Newt would be a disaster. Do you guys really not remember how much he was hated? It would be like Bush showing back up in 2018 to run again. But worse.

340 Yeah Silky and Lurch making references to Cheney's lezzo daughter probably got the Kostards all excited but few outside of that swarm were impressed, including Dick's daughter who could stomp both of their pansy asses without breaking a sweat.

341 @345
The pic of him over at HotAir... well, he should be in the dead pool.  He looks like crap.

342

All I know is that I would love to see Obama struggling to make the PGA Tour in 2013...

But if Newt is the candidate this year, I really don't see the Prez debating him. Can't do it without a 'prompter.

So there is that.

343 Obama mockingly denies Republican class warfare charge
(http://youtu.be/mIfJfa_FOtY)

Millionaires and billionaires! Buffett Rule! Fairness! Common sense! Nothing to do with envy!

344 Dick Cheney's beatdown of John Edwards was one of the most glorious things ever aired on television, right after the Moon landing.

Edwards actually squeaked "Halliburton".  I cheered.

345 Something about a man, never stopping his run for the presidency, seeming to place that above all else, that just makes you gasp.

346 I don't know about Newt myself.  I tend toward liking him, because he seems to have a "stance" from where he stands, and he seems (seems) to be running because he wants to do things.  I don't get that from Romney; what I get from him is that he wants the job because he thinks he's awesome and should have the job.

That's what turns me off about his sudden attacks whenever anyone gets more attention than he: Perry, Gingrich, whoever else.  "The nomination should be mine, not because I have better ideas and would have a better agenda, but because I wantses it!  I wantses the Precious!"

347 Anyone remember the McCain Romney debates.

348 I guess all of you who hate Romney think that he'd veto any good legislation Paul Ryan and the gang would send his way...

349

For my 2 cents, I started out favorting T-Paw, despite living in Texas and knowing Perry, for one reason: He had managed to do conservative things in a liberal state. I mean, Perry does "Capital R" things here in Texas but let's face it, it's Texas. So when T-paw folded like a house of cards, in record time, I was left to re-evaluate the field.

The way I see it Dr. Koo Koo Bananas is a non-starter. His foreign policy doesn't agree with me.  It leaves me with 3 options, none of which is perfect. Honestly, I'll vote for any of the 3 in the general but I'd vote for Newt if you guys don't decide this thing for us before Texas' primary. The only reason he's a hair above the others, in my book, is that he's the only one that isn't letting the media frame the question when they talk to him, he better elborates conservative positions and because I don't see a big enough disparity between any of thier records to say that any one of them isn't a big government Republican.

The first one that can show me a viable plan for making government inconsquential in my daily life gains the advantage.

350 "If a man's dishonest to obtain a job he'll be dishonest on the job"....

Not a huckabee fan but that's a good quote.

351 308--I just listened the CNN report twice. It is very heavily edited. They put Newt on tape, but not RC Hammond--the guy who is supposed to have said they only offered Newt's daughters as witnesses. We don't know exactly what he said, or in what context. It would be good to have more information before accepting CNN's word for anything. In the meantime, according to LI, Drudge has put up a film clip which he says is Gingrich slamming Reagan, but has been edited so you can't tell that it's really Gingrich slamming Bush 41.

352

Coulter and Drudge traveled back 50 years into the past in the HotTub time machine and had a love child together, who is Bill Maher.

 

This actually explains a lot of things.

1) Coulter likes Maher

2) Maher hates Drudge

3) Drudge hates Maher

 

353 The other day I mentioned to a friend that I thought drudge was pro romney.  She said to me "nah, he's a news guy, he isn't supposed to pick a side" and since she is a lib/dem I took the opportunity to remind her about the MSM and their worship of the present holder of the office.  Her response was fascinating, "well yeah, but everyone expects that, but people don't expect republicans and conservatives to have their news outlets pick a side, they just don't, you are imagining things"

And then I click into drudge early this morning and there it is all the anti newt stuff.  I wasn't imaging it. 

354 There's actually a fiar bit of behavioral research to back up the position that we decide first, think second.  If you have already decided on a gut level that Newt is a oleagenous bag of ego who has no more idea than I do what will be the next grand plan to pop out of his mouth, then you will look at the debates and see confirmation.  A huge chunk of the country has already made up its mind about Newt's negatives.  In a debate with Obama (in which I would have already decided I would prefer Newt) I'm sure I'lll see a great showing and a win.  > 50% of the country will watch the same thing and see a smug jerk.

355 Let's not forget the Clinton impeachments was Newt's big thing too once upon a time.  Well he turned out to be as bad or worse.  So yes, a party that rightfully claims that ethics and morality matters should not be nominating the poster boy for the opposite of that.  It isn't hard to figure is it?  Newt means we crack off the morality leg of the 3 legged stool of Conservatism and throw it in the fireplace.  He isn't worth that, not by a long shot.  In the end we know one of 2 things are going to happen:

1. He will get beat by Obama.

2. He gets elected and breaks our hearts and whats left of the party.

He has not reformed in the least, his class warfare assault on Romney and his recent lies prove that.  Fuck him and his crazy-eyed child wife.

356  Posted by: BeckoningChasm at January 26, 2012 03:07 PM (i0App)

This is about where I currently stand.

As for the past election, McCain lost his debates against the SCOAMF because he basically campaigned for the guy the whole election season.  It was disgusting and I had to hold my nose to vote for him.  If he'd actually won, I would have expected him to step down and give the presidency over to Obie anyway.

Palin won her debates by a fair margin.  I can't even remember Biden being at those debates, he was beat so mercilessly.

357 McCain beat Obama in the debates??? Bull. McCain had his butt handed to him. Obama, and other "cult of personality" types are very good at sounding like they are talking common sense and at manipulating the hoi polloi. He can distort, lie, and get away with it. The GOP nominee will likely by Romney and he'll have his butt handed to him as well. This will not end well.

358 I'm concerned that the hate and fear of Newt among moderates is unassailable as well, but my bigger fear is that Newt may win and be a super idotic left leaning retard who won't roll back anything Obama has done and resist any attempts by congress.
I don't think Newt represents the Tea Party or outside the beltway outsider of anything, but I know Mitt Romney represents the beltway insider GOP leadership elite, and that's the problem. They're trying their damnest to ram him down our throats and we've had enough of that. Who's left? Yeah. Its a huge crap sandwich and we're all going to have to take a bite.
Then in 2012, if we topple Obama, we have to defend that turd against whatever radical freak the Democrats throw against him. Whee.

359 er 2016. Assuming there's any America left to have an election then.

360

Newt means we crack off the morality leg of the 3 legged stool of Conservatism and throw it in the fireplace. He isn't worth that, not by a long shot. In the end we know one of 2 things are going to happen:

Romney means we crack off the seat and sodomize ourselves.

Conservatism - conservatism = Romney in a very nice suit.

361 Can't get passed that romneycare is the predecessor to obamacare. 

He's too proud of his romneycare in massachusettes, paid for by everyone else.   He's hiding the pride now but eventually, if elected president he will defend his romneycare and will selectively tweak obamacare to be more like romneycare. 

Obama won't bring it up cause he knows, he knows mittens will do this as he unconvincing when he says he's going to repeal it.  He can't even look the camera in the eye.

362 332 That's your appraisal of Newt's strategy? That he's going to complain that Obama won't debate him?

Posted by: runninrebel at January 26, 2012 02:48 PM (N/1Dm)

Newt's stated strategy is that he is going to have Lincoln-Douglas style debates and dominate Obama in them, winning the election. 

My point is that Obama will simply refuse to have more than 1 or 2 short debates and Newt won't be able to do anything about it beyond complaining.  And if you think the issue would get traction with the public, I would point you to the mass public rallies we have seen denouncing his recess appointments.  Newt's whole idea of winning through those type of debates is nutty, which is part of Ace's point. 

363 Small request:  Since Drudge, who gets 30 million (!) hits a day, is being so crazy anti-Newt, can we post some positive Newt items in the sidebar?  Legal Insurrection has a few good links up today.  I am not crazy about any of our curent choices, but think Romney is McCain-lite and will also lose those debates.  Thanks!

364 334 >>>If the non-Tea Party public hasn't taken notice of blatantly unconstitutional moves like his recess appointments, are they really going to listen to Newt complaining that Obama won't debate him?

Who says they haven't taken notice?

Were you out of the country in 2010???

Posted by: Entropy, Racism Delenda Est at January 26, 2012 02:49 PM (mf67L)

Remind me of the debates from 2010 that swung any of those elections.  And in 2010, the Newt-like flawed candidates with true blue conservative chops were people like Sharron Angle and Christine ODonnell  - who lost badly in the middle of a historic landslide. 

365 Erick Erickson was saying today Obama will attack Romney and Newt will attack Newt, so it's a tie in electability.

I can't see this.  Obama will attack Newt too.  Newt has more weak spots than Romney.  So it will be 2 on 1 against Newt and Newt will lose.

Newt may hit back harder, but it won't be enough and his arguments will get lost amid his gaffes.

And Romney will make a good case against Obama too.  That's the easy part of this campaign.  Coming through all the attacks that will come from Obama and the media and still looking presidential will be the hard part.

366 I don't think we need positive things about Newt, I think we need negative things about the president. Lets focus on how much he sucks, not on how much Republicans suck. Lets spread that word, because right now, the White House and legacy media are dominating the narrative.

367

So conservatives/Republicans thought that McCain and Palin won those debates over Obama and Biden. 

I bet liberals/Democrats thought that Obama and Biden won.

Do you think there's any chance that Ace or "most of the commenters" here were objective in their analysis?  You liked the things Palin and McCain said because you agreed with them a lot more than Biden and Obama.  And you were much more positively predisposed to Palin and McCain.

Do you think your entirely subjective analysis of those debates is worth anything, or worthy anything more than some writer/commenters at DailyKos?

368 Incidentally, I think that the problem with Coulter and Drudge and others is that they're terrified if Newt is the nominee, Obama wins reelection. That's not exactly new, it drove the virulently anti-Cain tone of this blog for a while. The fear isn't unreasonable, I am concerned that Newt is so loathed and feared by moderates the truth will never chip away at that wall carefully built by the media over the decades.
But that's the driving force, I'm sure. Its not so much opposition to Newt, although he makes all of us gag a little. Its fear of 4 years of Obama with nothing to lose.
I didn't watch the debates, but from what I heard, McCain didn't go after Obama on anything, let him just say whatever he wanted and walk all over him which is how to lose debates. Its not just about getting your ideas across, its about pointing out your opponent's flaws and defeating their arguments. If you don't do that, you lose.

369 Obama beat McCain in the debates because Obaama said his plan was a "net spending cut" and oppose health mandates, but McCain didn't call BS on it. Palin beat Biden because everything that came out of Biden's mouth was an idiotic spew of words, especially his dumbass comment on the "unitary executive" which he got exactly wrong.

370 C'mon, Ace—Admit it. You're finally coming around to calling for the end of universal suffrage (i.e., "One Man [Citizen], One Vote") like the rest of us in the EEEEEEVIL wing of the conservative half of this country. (The 18th century wing, granted, but we're a wing, dammit. )

371 Ace - I thought Palin beat Biden too - just like Sharron Angle wiped the floor with Harry Reid - even the lefty insert paper conceded it!!! But the msm drumb beat swayed the dang surface voters, and here we are...