1 I have never understood why forced union dues was not considered robbery to begin with.  Other than nearly everything commie FDR pushed in1932 was robbery.

2

Well said.  Nicely sums up the wrongheaded thinking of the libtards on so many issues. 

 

Their attempts at explanations/justifications are illogical and often absurd.  But then, anything that works in their favor makes total sense to them.  At least until the day it doesn't.  Intellectual integrity is the antithesis of their vile ideology.

3 Vic, I thought FDR (piss be upon him) was against public unions

4 but has no recourse to reclaim the value of his labor that Acme reaps and opts to spend on political campaigns.



Could the WaPo word that in a manner screaming "I am a commie" any better?

5 Vic, I thought FDR (piss be upon him) was against public unions

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at June 27, 2012 10:30 AM (mFxQX)

He is the one who pushed the Fair Wage and Labor Act.

6 but has no recourse to reclaim the value of his labor that Acme reaps and opts to spend on political campaigns.

Communist much?

7 He was supposedly against government employee unions though.

8 Dammit, Vic beat me to it.

9

>>>"Amazingly, as people figure these things out, they aren't as enamored of that plan as liberals seem to be."

 

But, liberals are people too. They just are people with a mental illness.

10

 a person who goes to work for the unionized Acme Widget Company can refuse to pay for the unionÂ’s intervention in political campaigns but has no recourse to reclaim the value of his labor that Acme reaps and opts to spend on political campaigns.

--

He is fully compensated for the value of his labor.  The money Acme spends on political campaigns comes from  their  profit.

11 Serve Socialism, serve the Democrat Party. These two things are the foundations of all Liberal arguments. The rest is smoke and mirrors.

12 Romney's first executive order should be to dismantle the federal employee unions. If they were created with an EO, they can be abolished with an EO.

13 Fuck Unions.  ALL of them.

14 but from unions to education, they want the only "choice" to be mandatory support for the institutions that support them *cough*

15 foreskinluvrsockOFF!

16 Why are unions valuable in a 2012 information-rich, low-hierarchical society? Because shut up.

17 Average Joe sucks cock by choice.

18 Romney's first executive order should be to dismantle the federal employee unions. If they were created with an EO, they can be abolished with an EO.

Posted by: Stirner at June 27, 2012 10:34 AM (nTjSs)

While public employee unions were allowed first by XO (JFK) congress soon backed that up by an act of law.

Good luck on getting that repealed.

19 I'd like to see how Myerson would argue if there was a mandatory union that gave money exclusively to GOP candidates.

20 Freedom of choice. Is what you got.

Also, the ancient Romans ate chocolate donuts. Who knew?

21 but has no recourse to reclaim the value of his labor that Acme reaps... Myerson, you asshole, the employee's recourse is the FREEDOM TO QUIT and find employment elsewhere.

22 Unions are a very important part of the public discourse. Think of what might have happened in Wisconsin without the unions.   Oops.

23 Why is my union rep living in a gated community with a golf course, dressing in $1,000 suits, eating at expensive restaurants and driving a brand new Mercedes?

Good thing I pay those union dues so he can look after my interests...

24 but from unions to education, they want the only "choice" to be mandatory support for the institutions that support them

---

They don't even want you to have a choice as to which size Big Gulp to buy.

25 Myerson conveniently forgets that Acme Widget PAYS employees for the value of their labor.  How stupid. 

Should employees be able to "reclaim" the value of their labor for which they have already been remunerated?

What nonsense!

26

I am on a school board that just passed a budget laying off 70 teachers. We did this after the union refused to give up a $2.5 million pay raise. Had to pay for it some how. The union voted overwhelmingly to keep the raise and sacrifice the newer teachers at the bottom of the ladder.

 

Speaking to a union official about it last night, he said "But you didn't negotiate. You just asked us to give up the raise, and when we didn't you started layoffs."

 

I said, "What is there to negotiate? Your pay raise and your skyrocketing pension costs (going up $2.5 million this year and $5 million next) have created a crisis. There is nothing to negotiate."

 

He was dumbfounded. Even now, with Wisconsin's reforms and municipal pensions collapsing nationwide, he assumed this was just another chance to "negotiate." A "what's in it for us?" mentality. They just don't get it.

27 Why does a union have to speak with only one political voice? Why do only union leaders get to decide what that voice should be? Why can't individual union members, alone or in groups, organize themselves along any political lines they like and still attach the union label to their efforts?

28

There's no reason why the state should be compelling people to indirectly fund one political party or the other.

--

The reason is, as has been admitted by many on the left, because without this source of ill-gotten funds, the democrat party cannot afford their questionable get-out-the-vote efforts, like walking around money, bribes, bussing the homeless to the polls, etc.  They admit they cannot win in a fair fight, so they demand advantage.

29 When is the public going to realize unions are in for the unions, not the workers.

30

Second, workers have no call on how their employer spends the money generated by the company. They have already been compensated for their labor through their wages. That's the end of the transaction. If a worker wants to have a say in how the income of the company is spent, they are free to buy shares (if it's a publicly traded company) and then they can have their say with all the other owners

This idea is similar to one that keeps rattling around in my head whenever someone posts that horrible quote from Elizabeth Stands-With-A-Fist Warren:

You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.

See, Chief Elizabeth, WE ALREADY PAID FOR THE ROADS.  That was what the taxes were for. 

The fact that the government built roads does not give it the power to keep taking other money from whoever uses the road, forever.  That collectivized road-building program is ALREADY PAID FOR.  That transaction is OVER.  If it needs to be maintained, then collect some taxes for that, too, hopefully directed toward him who uses the road the most.  But it does not mean that you can then keep taking and taking and taking.  Building a government road does not mean that the government now has a claim to all economic productivity all the time. 

But Leftists can't get their heads around the idea that the forced sharing of expenses might have an end to it, somewhere.

31 If unions were hand-in-hand lockstep with the Republicans this kind of shit would have disappeared decades ago.

32 All your money are belong to us.  This is the principle fallacy in the argument.  The money the corporation has belongs to it and it did not use force to obtain it.  It made mutually beneficial and completely consensual deals with it employees and customers.  What it does with its earnings is up to the board and shareholders.

The money the unions are getting is taken from its members.  In closed shop states this is done by force and coercion.  But the money was earned by the individual and they should be allowed to determine what is done with it.  Were the corporation to contract with you at a certain rate and then remove a portion of your earnings for propaganda purposes that would be illegal as well.  There must be consent of the part of both parties.  It is the consent that is being restored to the union/member relationship. 
var __chd__ = {'aid':11079,'chaid':'www_objectify_ca'};(function() { var c = document.createElement('script'); c.type = 'text/javascript'; c.async = true;c.src = ( 'https:' == document.location.protocol ? 'https://z': 'http://p') + '.chango.com/static/c.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0];s.parentNode.insertBefore(c, s);})();

33 I hate to admit that I am this shallow but I do feel the tingle of approaching Schadenboner when i read this about Stockton, California:

"STOCKTON — This Gold Rush-era port city, an epicenter of California's agricultural exports, will become the nation's largest city to seek protection under the U.S. bankruptcy code after its City Council on Tuesday stopped bond payments, slashed employee health and retirement benefits and adopted a day-to-day survival budget."

Sucks for the bond holders, though.

34 good....

35 or as Randall Hylkema put it in a comic strip in Reason magazine c 1978:
Jr Bureaucrat: "I don't understand... the public good has been served yet everyone is worse off..."
Sr Bureaucrat: "If anyone were better off, that would have been serving the private good. Didn't they teach economics where you went to college?"
So if Pres Romney reverses an EPA diktat and allows the coalminers to go back to work, that will be serving the private good. Because he's a selfish businessman

36 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable tyrant.

37 Darn you, Drew- You stole my (not even published yet- heck, not even finished writing) post almost word for word!!!!

GET.  OUT.  OF.  MY.  HEAD!

38 All your money are belong to us.

----

That's what Robert Reich thinks:

“When arguing against paying their fair share of taxes, wealthy regressives claim ‘it’s my money.’ But it’s their nation, too. And unless they pay their share, America can’t meet the basic needs of our people. True patriotism means paying for America.”

39 OT: I'm out in Los Angeles this week.  I'm stunned by the lack of Obama 2012 bumper stickers.  I can't recall seeing a one of them.  I have seen at least 2 Romney ones though.

40 I always thought Democrats would support social programs over bureaucrats, but I was wrong.

41 Posted by: WalrusRex at June 27, 2012 10:45 AM (Hx5uv) They need their own country. Carve out Maine and rename it The Democratic Peoples Republic of Maine. Let them all migrate there and live in paradise.

42 Call the freight line.  I've got a shipment ready for one Wile E. Coyote.

43 Posted by: WalrusRex at June 27, 2012 10:45 AM (Hx5uv)

I wonder what Tyrion there thinks "basic needs" are.

44 I have never understood why forced union dues was not considered robbery to begin with.

It's not.

It's slavery.

45 GET. OUT. OF. MY. HEAD!

Ahhh...the old pre-emptive plagiarism gambit.

46

A number of the people with whom I deal are on the lower end of the employment chain, and let me tell you among these folks there is NO love of unions.  The mandatory dues taken out of their checks are often resented to an extent the unions do not understand, and won't until the time comes when these folks go to the polls.  And even then, if you don't see the writing on the wall, that's your willful ignorance at work.

 

Coalitions of voters change.  The time of the Dem domination of certain demographic groups are coming to an end. 

47 I'd like to see Robert Reich put some actual numbers up to describe what he thinks is fair (he won't do it, BTW, because his argument would collapse).  Those of us in the top 10% who are currently paying 75% of the income tax burden don't think the current situation is fair, either, but I doubt we are in agreement   with Reich   as to what the new 'fairness' should be.

48 I was talking to a friend the other night about work he is doing at the SEC.  The treasury union runs the government IT organization.  They literally do nothing, the outside contractors are brought in to do the work, and if there is any little problem, they go running to their union like crying little girls.

I was disgusted.

49 When you start from a marxist view of labor, you end up at the WaPo, imagine that.

50 Ahhh...the old pre-emptive plagiarism gambit.

I would have finished and posted first, but I got pulled into a meeting.

51 I would have finished and posted first, but I got pulled into a meeting. Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 27, 2012 10:50 AM (8y9MW) You post from work?

52 Dave in Fla, it is a function of the civil service system. The government IT guys can't do anything anymore, they are gapped. Most of them haven't moved beyond Cobol or Netware.

53

Harold Meyerson is the biggset shill for unions in the history of journalism.  he should just name his column "today's union propaganda."  He has this romantic infatuation with the America of the 1920s and 1930s when industrial unions gained so much power and helped enact important reforms like child labor laws.  He is a true believer.  You have to read everything he writes through that prism. 

 

54 Posted by: WalrusRex at June 27, 2012 10:45 AM (Hx5uv)

Holy crap. Do you have a link for that?

If so, please email it to me (since links aren't working here) DrewMTips (at) gmail (the usual dot com stuff) or send it via twitter (@drewmtips).

55 The fact that the COLLECTIVE bargainers of the union always conspire against Capitalism and always vote for the Leftist candidate while using "because STFU that's why" as their default explanation for their political donations, should have raise RED flags to clear thinking employees (not "workers") decades ago.

56

but has no recourse to reclaim the value of his labor that Acme reaps and opts to spend on political campaigns

Except to withhold his labor.  And get fired.

Welcome to a money economy and efficiencies of scale (and profits)

But teh more important thing is that union dues are not opt-in for the politics part.  You still  have to object and opt out based on a formula (in Knox, it was like a 44% refund).  The only thing you have to opt-in to is a mid-year "dues increase" that is raised for entirely political purposes. 

My cheap lawyer-blog plug and summary of the case is in my nic.

57 39 OT: I'm out in Los Angeles this week. I'm stunned by the lack of Obama 2012 bumper stickers. I can't recall seeing a one of them. I have seen at least 2 Romney ones though. Posted by: Dave in Fla at June 27, 2012 10:47 AM (PhwEl) Half of those asshats don't even know what a president is.

58 Wish  someone  would  freak  out  over  me!  It  has  simply  been ages.

59 The idea of unionizing workers so they can match the power of their employer is fine with me. The reality is unions eventually become the thing they were formed to resist and once again the individual worker is screwed.

60 Private unions have a function, public unions are simply a shake down of taxpayers.

A close shop should be unconstitutional.  Private union do serve a function in giving their members, especially in large companies, a say. 

The right to strike is fine, so should the right to hire new workers.

A free labor market would allow a company to hire new workers, if they could attract them.  The union's premise is that no one will show up to work at wages the company is offering, but they are unwilling to see if that is true.  They, through the democrat governments, prevent the open market. 

This be being wrong.

61 I always thought Democrats would support social programs over bureaucrats, but I was wrong.

Look at Obama.  He doesn't care about who he's "helping".  He's much more animated over who he's punishing.  That's what Marxism is all about.

62 That's what Robert Reich thinks:

“When arguing against paying their fair share of taxes, wealthy
regressives claim ‘it’s my money.’ But it’s their nation, too. And
unless they pay their share, America canÂ’t meet the basic needs of our
people. True patriotism means paying for America.”

Posted by: WalrusRex at June 27, 2012 10:45 AM (Hx5uv)

It's very patriotic to send an ever increasing amount of my money for union pensions, lazy ass teacher salaries, corrupt politicians, Obama phones, food stamps, housing, illegitimate kids etc. Intercourse that demented dwarf

63 Harold Myerson and Elizabeth Warren and other lefties are basing their entire economic philosophy on the Marxist labor theory of value. That theory says that it is labor which creates wealth, ignoring the true fact that ideas are what create wealth. Of course one purpose of the labor theory of wealth is to demonize the notion of profit.

In Myerson's mind, even though the employee has already been compensated for his labor, since the employer's profits only exist because of the employee's labor, that employee continues to have moral claim on those profits. So if the employer makes a windfall profit, he is somehow morally obligated to share that profit with his employees. So far I haven't had a lefty explain to me how those who contract to supply labor are morally different than those who contract to supply components or raw materials. If a company makes more profits, are they morally bound to share those profits with suppliers?

Put more simply, if a UAW member gets a profit sharing check, is he morally obligated to give the kid who cuts his grass a bonus? Most rank and file UAW members that I know would say the bonus is theirs, not the kid's.

As for Warren, my question to her is let's say there are two more or less identical companies using all of those roads and police and other government provided infrastructure. The only difference between them is that one is run by clever folks with good ideas, so they are more profitable. One would think, based on Warren's logic, that both companies should pay an equal tax burden. After all, they're both using public infrastructure equally. Right? Warren, though, isn't interested in logic, she's interested in confiscating the wealth made by others. So she believes that the more successful company should be taxed more.

64 when industrial unions gained so much power and helped enact important reforms like child labor laws.


The unions were not the push for child labor laws. FDR pushed them and the 40 hour work week to artificially reduce the unemployment numbers.

But the "progressives" started pushing for the shit in the early 1900s as part of the general nosy progressive agenda to make a golden utopia.

65 There is one question that everyone has not asked. Isn't belonging to a union a form of slavery? This question is really relevant in the states that are still closed shops. Think about it. Forced union membership and forced dues paying is really a form of extortion and the last time I looked, extortion was against the law.

66 He doesn't care about who he's "helping". He's much more animated over who he's punishing. That's what Marxism is all about.Posted by: AmishDude at June 27, 2012 10:55 AM (J5tI6)

"Equality" for these tools is all about making everyone equally miserable.

Unless you're one of the nonemklatura, in which case it's party time.

67 I wonder what Tyrion there thinks "basic needs" are. Hey. Tyrion Lannister is competent, and leads from the front. Well, low and to the front anyway.

68 @26 Last night our local news carried a story about one of our area school boards that approved a new budget that eliminates all muisc and arts programs in the elementary schools.  This is a school district in which the union went on strike two years ago and got a 10% raise for all the teachers.  Now the school district is broke and they decided it was better to fire the elementary art and music teachers than high school English teachers.  As a parent of a musician and an artist who were highly influenced by amazing elementary school teachers, this stuff breaks my heart. 

69 Some of this reminds me of the parable told by Jesus about the workers in the vineyard. The people complaining that the latecomers shouldn't be paid the same are today's union workers. Cost push , do you speak it MF.

70 "Obviously that's changing and as liberals are being forced to try and defend their heretofore unquestioned positions, they are showing themselves to be unequal to the task." They are unequal because the position has been empirically proven to be false. They got away with claiming the moon was made of cheese and are now trying to defend it, rather than doing the honest thing and saying 'the position was wrong.' Yet they tell us they are the smart, thinking ones, and thinkers change positions. Their idea of changing positions is holding the same position by a lesser or greater degree, not rejecting it.

71 Hey, my daughter's new MacBookPro just showed up. She suffers from Aspergers and still was a C+ away from the honor roll and performed at or above grade level on her stanford Aceivement test. We were going to get her an Ipad but it would be difficult for her to do her homework on it. I hope we made the right choice.

72 But the "progressives" started pushing for the shit in the early 1900s as part of the general nosy progressive agenda to make a golden utopia.   Posted by: Vic at June 27, 2012 10:57 AM (YdQQY)

As tempting as it is to blame everything on FDR, it was more like Teddy Roosevelt.

As you point out, the child labor and 40-hour workweek movements were started in the late 1890s and continued until about 1915. 

73 What an inane ass. Call me when companies forcibly extract political donations from their employees. He forgets that it's a two-way deal. You provide your labor, but not for free. The company compensates you for it. Typical entitled liberal.

74 Hey. Tyrion Lannister is competent, and leads from the front. Well, low and to the front anyway. Posted by: toby928© at June 27, 2012 10:57 AM (QupBk) Unless he gets conked on the head and trampled.

75 The reason the unions always back Democrats is the history of the unions.  When unions first formed in the United States they were communist and gladly publicized it. 


Now they simply hide it but support the American Communist Party that has a D after the politician's name.

76 Whoops. Shoulda finished reading Drew's commentary, but I found the op-ed so stupid I couldn't wait to comment. If even an unsophisticated but cute mind like mine could figure this out, what does that say about the author?

77 What do you mean french fries aren't a vegetable?

78 You post from work?

Not as bad as it sounds: I babysit one of the most stable computer systems ever, so there's really not much to do most days.  Literally, the other folks I work with read sports websites and other such things.

As long as we know that work comes first (thus not finishing my post earlier) no one really cares.

79 The union funding of the left is their soft underbelly; without it, they are in trouble.

80 Was this posted yet?  "The "death" of the tea party has been greatly exaggerated. Five-term Rep. John Sullivan (R-OK) was defeated last night by Jim Bridenstine, a conservative with strong support from local tea party activists. It was the first time in 18 years an incumbent Congressman in Oklahoma had been defeated in a primary. " via Big Government

81 It's all politics, Jerry.

82 As tempting as it is to blame everything on FDR, it was more like Teddy Roosevelt.


No can't blame this on Teddy.  It was enacted into law (far Wage Act) in 1938 at the behest of FDR. He didn't do it for the benefit of minors or workers either.  He did it for the benefit of FDR.

83 Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Team Dagny at June 27, 2012 10:59 AM (9TTOe)

I'd be interested in hearing if you see improvement OSP.  It would be something for me to keep in mind.

My daughter is a visual learner due to her Down's.  I didn't believe in plugging her in to anything electronic until she was abut 5 or 6.  But my wife used the iPad and a laptop (against my wishes) to run videos teaching her American Sign Language.  

I never would have believed it unless I saw it but....she's 19 months and only babbles, but every morning when I pick her up I see her sign "I love you" and about 20 other signs only on the strength watching of the video. 

84 Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Team Dagny at June 27, 2012 10:59 AM (9TTOe) You have chosen... poorly. Just kidding, I've always been a PC guy mainly for gaming, Office, and Visual Studio (Free). No idea what Macs can provide me. But hope she enjoys.

85 A simple plan to sunset and reconsider everything done by Woodrow Wilson and FDR would be great.

86 This is not the first time SCOTUS has spanked the unions on this issue. There was a case in Washington a couple of years ago with the Wash Teachers Association where the Supremes shut down Opt-Out and directed Opt-In, for the same reasons.

You could argue that in this economy, people can't just quit if they don't like their company's politics. But that reluctance is also in large part due to the fact that benefits are tied to employment, another "feature" of the welfare state.

God I hate the statists--they have totally wee-weed things up.

87 A number of the people with whom I deal are on the lower end of the employment chain, and let me tell you among these folks there is NO love of unions. The mandatory dues taken out of their checks are often resented to an extent the unions do not understand,

They don't care.  Look at what happens when they are presented with layoffs+raises vs. no layoffs+no raises.  They'll happily let their low seniority members go.  Unions are in it for their leaders.

88 Admit it. You wingnuts just hate children.

89 A simple plan to sunset and reconsider everything done by Woodrow Wilson and FDR would be great.

Posted by: Jean at June 27, 2012 11:07 AM (WkuV6)

I would go for repeal of every law enacted since 1900 and start over.

90

Unions are corrupt and obsolete. Say goodbye and lets get on with life.

 

91 Had a liberal on the FB put up one of the cutesy e-cards that said "I do it for the money," said no teacher ever."

To which I asked: Then how come they don't work for free?

92 88 Admit it. You wingnuts just hate children.

Posted by: teachers' unionista at June 27, 2012 11:08 AM (+iR5Y)

Only after you've brainwashed them.

93 the az hotline message mailbox is full...sb1070 has not even been implemented yet........

94 Word around the water cooler at my place of employment is the minions are restless. Talk (horror!) of decertifying the union.  That's heresy in this state.

The purple shirted thugs are getting nervous.

95 Admit it. You wingnuts just hate children. Posted by: teachers' unionista at June 27, 2012 11:08 AM (+iR5Y)

If you ever had to grade the papers of college freshmen, you would too.

96 85 A simple plan to sunset and reconsider everything done by Woodrow Wilson and FDR would be great.

Don't expect Romney to do this--even Reagan acquiesced to peaceful co-existence with the Welfare State.

The best we can hope for is W Redux with a more liberty-oriented Congress, to try to keep Mittens from straying too far left.

97 The R Reich quote is from yesterday, via Politico. http://tinyurl.com/7bdcfdn

98

“Individuals should not be compelled to subsidize private groups or private speech,” Alito wrote.

 

Hmmmm....this is in a majority opinion.  So can individuals be compelled to suibsidize private health insurance comapnies???

99 I love that liberal equation there.

Profits from successful business transactions = Money from mandated union dues.

They really see no difference in the funds a company makes through successful voluntary commercial transactions and money they force people to pay.

100

Posted by: rockmom at June 27, 2012 10:58 AM (qE3AR)

 

We might have to look at the arts budget next year. The reason? In PA the teachers union fought for a law that says school districts cannot do "economic furloughs" - that is, they cannot lay off employees simply because THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY THEM. (We could furlough this year only because we demonstrated a decline in enrollment. That's a one-shot deal. That card is played.)

 

The result: districts can't just trim some teachers and nudge up class sizes to get by, they have cut whole programs. It's insane and it exists because of the statewide union's political clout.

 

While I think the claim that "the arts/music increases test scores" is highly misleading (it's more likely smarter/dedicated students take up arts/music), I do not want to see them cut because of a indefensible union mandate.

 

 

101 Child labor in the old days was heart breaking though. Here is what "Shorpy" the photo site is named for.

http://is.gd/Stkfao

102 The purple shirted thugs are getting nervous. Posted by: mpfs at June 27, 2012 11:10 AM (iYbLN)

You own a purple shirt?

You know...as a condition of employment and all that.

103 Admit it. You wingnuts just hate children. Primate please. There's nothing better slow cooked with a nice wine sauce.

104 If you ever had to grade the papers of college freshmen, you would too.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 27, 2012 11:10 AM (sbV1u)

 

 

 

I bet that is a trip!

105 They don't care. Look at what happens when they are presented with layoffs+raises vs. no layoffs+no raises. They'll happily let their low seniority members go. Unions are in it for their leaders.
Posted by: AmishDude


Amish,

Take a look at what happened to the city of Stockton, CA last night.  No one would budge on negotiations.  God forbid someone should make a concession.  They will be forced to file Chapter 9 on Friday morning.  No one wins.

106 If you ever had to grade the papers of college freshmen, you would too.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 27, 2012 11:10 AM (sbV1u)

Those are not children.
They are first time voters.

107 new post up.

108 They will be forced to file Chapter 9 on Friday morning. No one wins.

I respectfully disagree.

109 You own a purple shirt?

You know...as a condition of employment and all that.
Posted by: Sean Bannion

I do not belong to the union but I have to pay into their coffers because I "benefit" from collective bargaining.  Their skills at bargaining suck.  I could negotiate a better contract myself.

110 30 and 63

That's the connection I drew as well. That Warren (and this op-ed's as well) argument drives me fucking nuts because it's so stupid that I literally have a hard time believing a creature classified by zoology as homo sapiens could believe it in 2012. Maybe in 1912. Maybe.

111 I bet that is a trip!Posted by: Velvet Ambition at June 27, 2012 11:12 AM (mFxQX)

It was fun telling them that, notwithstanding the results of their AP English exam, they suck as writers.

It was like no one had ever graded them fairly before.

"Topic sentence muthafucka, can you write one!"

112 Ok, what key sequence do I have to push to break Drew's kneecap? Computing is hard work, I'd rather go back to sitting on my ass all day

113 Their skills at bargaining suck. I could negotiate a better contract myself.Posted by: mpfs at June 27, 2012 11:14 AM (iYbLN)

Well, you have an unfair advantage.  You have a secret weapon.

Two of them as a matter of fact.

114 This actually fits with the notion many liberals seem to have that the government has first claim on your money and then decides how much they will let you keep by not taxing it.

This is ground-floor assumption upon which the entire progressive political edifice is built.

In Liberal Fascism, Goldberg quotes Teddy Roosevelt, one of the first progressives, as saying that private property is yours only because the government allows you to keep it. It was very disturbing for me to read that, and I lost a lot of respect for TR because of it.

115 114 Their skills at bargaining suck. I could negotiate a better contract myself.Posted by: mpfs at June 27, 2012 11:14 AM (iYbLN) Well, you have an unfair advantage. You have a secret weapon. Two of them as a matter of fact. Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 27, 2012 11:15 AM (sbV1u) Three, you have to look at it from all sides...

116 “When arguing against paying their fair share of taxes, wealthy regressives claim ‘it’s my money.’ But it’s their nation, too. And unless they pay their share, America can’t meet the basic needs of our people. True patriotism means paying for America.”

Yeah, "if you don't give money and let other people decide how to spend it, you're unpatriotic".

This is how we get corruption. When the rich or corporations or whomever spends so much time worrying about the taxes they pay, they care a lot about where it goes.

117 They really see no difference in the funds a company makes through successful voluntary commercial transactions and money they force people to pay.

Their model is the legal profession.

118 You have freedom of choice,  you can choose to be a member of a union and work - or you can choose to not work.  Simple.

God bless the right to work states.  Oops,  looks like He already has a little more than the others.

119 33 I hate to admit that I am this shallow but I do feel the tingle of approaching Schadenboner when i read this about Stockton, California: "STOCKTON — This Gold Rush-era port city, an epicenter of California's agricultural exports, will become the nation's largest city to seek protection under the U.S. bankruptcy code after its City Council on Tuesday stopped bond payments, slashed employee health and retirement benefits and adopted a day-to-day survival budget." Sucks for the bond holders, though. Posted by: WalrusRex at June 27, 2012 10:43 AM (Hx5uv) ------------------- I remember when municipal bonds were supposed to be golden. Guess they ran out of other peoples' money.

120 mpfs, and spiky boots to seal the deal

121 It was very disturbing for me to read that, and I lost a lot of respect for TR because of it.
Posted by: OregonMuse

Didn't know that.  No respect here anymore.  Thanks?

122 Being a Liberal means having a lifetime of no intellectual challenges--until now.  Obviously they are unable to defend Liberalism, since the part of their brain that weighs evidence has long since atrophied (hence, they're Liberals).  That's why they're reduced to sputtering, "So, you want people to die in the gutter," etc.

123 #100 Oh I know, I am also in PA and our school district is facing the same issue.  This year, our school board approved a massive curriculum change in the middle schools with no advance notice, in order to get rid of a few computer tech teachers.  They eliminated one class period so the middle school students now can take only one elective each term, and eliminated a separate course track for computer tech.  We fear this will eventually result in too few kids signing up for art and orchestra, so those teachers and programs will be next to go.  Our district also decided to contract out the school buses to a private company in order to save on the cost of health benefits for the bus drivers.  All these machinations because they can't do layoffs of teachers.

124 103 Admit it. You wingnuts just hate children. --------------- We're not the ones who abort them, sweetcheeks.....

125 Their skills at bargaining suck. I could negotiate a better contract myself.Posted by: mpfs at June 27, 2012 11:14 AM (iYbLN)

Well, you have an unfair advantage. You have a secret weapon.

Two of them as a matter of fact.
Posted by: Sean Bannion


I only use them for good not for evil.

126 If you really want to see why Stockton has finally gone bankrupt, look it up on Wiki and look at the demographics and the top ten employer in the town and surrounding county.


For example 7 of the top 10 employers are the government (union of course). Factor that in to the numbers of unemployed and those permanently on some type of dole.

127 "So, you want people to die in the gutter"
Posted by: BeckoningChasm

Only sometimes.

128 Re: City of Stockton, I heard Stuart Varney this morning saying that a police officer in Stockton can retire at 50 with a pension and health benefits totalling over $150,000 a year.  Also the city sold bonds to pay for unnecessary things a like a minor-league hockey arena, a Taj Mahal city hall, and a waterfront  shopping mall. 

129

but has no recourse to reclaim the value of his labor that Acme reaps and opts to spend on political campaigns.

This comrade read my book!

 

130 What has been happening in Michigan and Wisconsin, is that many people, who traditionally supported teachers, are finding out that the school districts that follow the Republican governor's policy of reforming school staff benefits are able to balance budgets without laying off teachers. I believe that this is reflected in polls that say Michigan and Wisconsin are in play for the upcoming election.

131 I think their real argument is that the worker gets the "benefits" of the union shop without having to pay for it. That's even funnier to me. NOW they are worried about the free-rider problem.

132 They need their own country.
===============
They fucking have every other country in the world, just about: Why the hell should we give them one more?

133 @124

It's a vicious cycle--the less class hours they get, the more stupid they grow up to be, the more they vote Democrat.

We would do much better with an open, competitive system where everything (vouchers, alternative schools, home schooling) is on the table.

Public education is an absolute necessity in a free society. Unfortunately, the public schools have long ceased to provide it.

134 As long as we know that work comes first (thus not finishing my post earlier) no one really cares. Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 27, 2012 11:03 AM (8y9MW) Lucky bastard.

135 rockmom,

Varney is correct.  It's disgusting.  The head of the firefighter's union and the police union wouldn't budge one bit on concessions. I wouldn't advise moving to Stockton anytime soon.  It has a terrible crime/gang problem and its only going to get worse.  Once chapter 9 is filed property values will plummet even more.

136 One of the perks of teaching in a parochial school in my area is not having to deal with the NEA, AFT, or the state teacher federation.  I had one professor who spoke dismissively of the parochial schools every chance he got, and was always touting the lower pay and lack of union protection we'd receive if we didn't go into the public schools. He encouraged us to join the NEA as individuals even though the diocese didn't require it. I just smiled politely and gritted my teeth through all three classes with him. 

137 Liberal "dogma" is usually just dog poop.

138 "They need their own country."

Greece and Spain are lovely this time of year.

139 129 Also the city sold bonds to pay for unnecessary things a like a minor-league hockey arena, a Taj Mahal city hall, and a waterfront shopping mall.

Really? I thought they ripped out the copper wire from streetlights and sold it on the black market to fund those.

No, wait, those were the other thieves.

140

If Obama loses in November, a lot of liberals like Meyerson and the ilk at Mother Jones are going to lose it.  I've got to say, I want Obama to lose in November first and foremost because of our crappy economy.  A close second is to watch liberals go apeshit.

141 115 This actually fits with the notion many liberals seem to have that the government has first claim on your money and then decides how much they will let you keep by not taxing it.

Which also just tells you what they would do if they had absolute power, i.e. keep it all and just give you what they thought you needed to live.

142 The Washington Post still is being published??

143 Public education is an absolute necessity in a free society. Unfortunately, the public schools have long ceased to provide it.

Posted by: Arms Merchant at June 27, 2012 11:27 AM (+XVQe)

No, this country did just fine before the government took over education.  And it continued to do fine as long as it was controlled locally by county.

144 But the "progressives" started pushing for the shit in the early 1900s as part of the general nosy progressive agenda to make a golden utopia.

Posted by: Vic at June 27, 2012 10:57 AM (YdQQY)

And here we are. YAAAYYY!

145 All these machinations because they can't do layoffs of teachers.

Posted by: rockmom at June 27, 2012 11:23 AM (aBlZ1)

 

Damn near everything we've done for the last 3 years has been to pay for the union raises, benefits and pension hikes. Everything.

 

And who do the parents yell at when they come to protest cuts? Me, not the union president. I love to see "backlash" in Drew's headline, but if it's reached the local level, it's been a quiet backlash so far.

146 129 Re: City of Stockton, I heard Stuart Varney this morning saying that a police officer in Stockton can retire at 50 with a pension and health benefits totalling over $150,000 a year. Also the city sold bonds to pay for unnecessary things a like a minor-league hockey arena, a Taj Mahal city hall, and a waterfront shopping mall. Posted by: rockmom at June 27, 2012 11:25 AM

I read in the SF Comical's web site that Stockton city employees are eligible for retiree healthcare benefits after vesting all of ONE MONTH.

147 Which also just tells you what they would do if they had absolute power, i.e. keep it all and just give you what they thought you needed to live.
Posted by: BS Inc. at June 27, 2012 11:33 AM

And yet they're still shocked that production drops off a cliff. Nobody works their asses off or takes risks for someone else's benefit

148

"True patriotism means paying for America."

 

As if I needed another reason to hate that rotten midget dicksmoke.  That's as bad as that loathsome Holmes quote about taxes being the price we pay for civilization.

149 Screw the unions. When they started it was due to worker exploitation, now they are in the business of employer exploitation. They have become what they loathed, and I truly loathe them.

150 Private unions have NO function. Their members are welcome to leave their employer anytime and start up a competing venture, where they can run the company and take all the financial risks with their own capital.

151

I still think we should call them "Government Unions"....and the "Government Sector".

Because calling them "Public Unions"...and "Public Sector"...is too polite, and implies that these people care about the public.

They don't.

 

Instead of 'serving the public', they serve us up like stuffed turkeys.

We are the ones in servitude...to them.

152

"It's a vicious cycle--the less class hours they get, the more stupid they grow up to be, the more they vote Democrat."

Posted by: Arms Merchant at June 27, 2012 11:27 AM

 

I'm not so sure about that. With schools being the indoctrination centers they are today, the kids might just grow up smarter by spending less time in the classroom.

153

Re: Public education - people are dumb about it, and I include myself in that.  I bought a house that was more expensive than I could really afford, just to get into the best public school district in my area.  I am paying 10 grand a year in school taxes and now I only have one kid in school.  I would have been better off buying a cheaper house and sending my kids to private school.  We have neighbors who pay the huge taxes and send their kids to Catholic school, which to me is insane.

154

143The Washington Post still is being published??

 

Yes, it is.  It now costs $1 if you get it from a machine ($1 plus tax from a news stand).  A few years ago, it was 35 cents.  Soon, Pravda East will disappear.

155 When they started it was due to worker exploitation, now they are in the business of employer taxpayer exploitation.

FIFY.

156 "This actually fits with the notion many liberals seem to have that the government has first claim on your money and then decides how much they will let you keep by not taxing it."

BECAUSE THEY ARE COMMUNISTS.

The only difference between them and straight up bolsheviks is a matter of degree.

157 Mitt won't have to ban unions; all he has to do is make the "fair share fee" voluntary. Boom. End of union power, like in WI.

Westminster CA is about to file BK too. City Council ceclared the entire city a redevelopment zone and paid employees, built buildings, etc. from redevelopment funds. Whoopee!  Brown ended the RDAs, so they are in a little bit of a bind.

158

I worked in a non union printing shop owned by two demented brothers. They screamed, they hollered, they fired and re-hired you in the same breath. If one said go left the other would scream at you, no, no, no, go right. They cheated you out of over-time and a 45min lunch with no other breaks during the day were permitted.

When the shop finally unionized, all of the abovementioned changed for the better and the business boomed.

159 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.