1 Big whoop. Nothing of substance is going to be done in any case.

2 You might want to watch out for the Law of Unintended Consequences there, Barry!

3 Ace, I thought Andy's post was shit too, way to step on it.

4 Cock punch!

5

so he can then pose as the the hero who subsequently lowers them.

___

 I can't imagine Hairy Reed (the pedo) giving up the biggest slice of taxation pie just to make preazy look good.

6 If only Boehner proposed two weeks ago that the Republicans would cut the middle income rates and do nothing else. Pass a law and hand it to SCOAMF, and let him reject it. But that was Makr Levin's idea so Boehner just cried in his Dry Sack on the rocks.

7 Its a win/win for JEF. He'll never agree to cuts do if we go over the cliff he gets higher taxes from everyone even the middle class who he doesn't give a shit about.

8 Everything O wants is just over the cliff .

9 Republicans need to push the middle class tax extension in the house. They are certain to cave on the top levels anyway, might as well mitigate the damage.

10 Can't the debt limit be lowered as a means of forcing cuts along with raised rev?

11 geronimooohhhhh

12

We're still a month out. This is meaningless talk. Some stinking deal that does next to nothing will be the result in early January. We've been through this crap enough to know this by now.

 

 

You can make this bet about the eventual deal. Taxes will be higher after the deal, and so will the debt.

13 Over the cliff we go!

14 Pass a law that extends ALL TAX RATES. Send it to Harry Reid. Go home.

15 The 9 minute stomp-down.  What's the record?

16 Why are they called Bush rates? Didn't SCOAMF sign them into law too?

17

"....wants the hike in middle class taxes, so he can then pose as the the hero who subsequently lowers them."

 

Well yeah...that's kind of a no-brainer isn't it.

 

 

18 How about we agree to tax Bob Costas at 99.9%?

19 I kinda wish the cliff was literal, I like natural drama (and parachutes). Sadly it's just a metaphorical cliff and there will be nothing good to come by going over it.

20 Obama is a smart man. Evil, but smart. His goal is to destroy the Republican Party. Ideally by 2014 so he wins back the House. But long term is fine, too. Scenario 1: Repubs cave and vote to raise taxes. This destroys the unifying anti-taxation plank of the modern Republican Party. A plank that resonates back to the original founding of America -- Boston Tea Party, no taxation without representation, etc, etc. Obama wins big in 2014 as Repub Party cracks up and Repubs stay home in disgust. Scenario 2a: Repubs stand strong. Tax rates go up automatically. Defense is sequestered. We go over the cliff. Double dip recession. Media blames Repubs. Obama wins big in 2014. Scenario 2b: Repubs stand strong. We go over the cliff. But very quickly afterwards -- days, weeks into the new year -- Obama makes a deal that undoes the defense cuts and restores the tax cuts for the middle class. Obama and the Dems now have stolen the mantle of the party of tax-cutting and saving defense from the Republicans. -- Regardless of how this plays out Obama and the Dems win big in 2014. Repubs thought pushing this off would get Romney elected. Didn't work. Now we're fucked.

21 An intolerable man will commit intolerable acts.

Obama is, has and will always be a marxist agitator and communist.


He seeks to destroy this country - Destroy this country!

Not fundamentally change it but destroy it.

And a majority of people will merrily follow him toward oblivion.

22

Just wanted to remind you all that I am walking the streets freely!

Suckers!

23  Now we're fucked.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 04, 2012 05:58 PM (ZPrif)

 

 

Now?  We've been fucked for years.

24

Barky doesn't get to set tax rates.

 

If Congress wants to let the Bush tax cuts expire, they expire.

If Barky wants them lowered, it takes an act of Congress.

Let him own this.

 

All of his supporters are about to get tossed into part-time labor anyway, so he's going to need all the tax revenue he can get to pay for the health "insurance" that their employers will not be providing.

 

Have fun with that, Mr. Preezy.

25

Let's just print a bunch of trillion dollar bills....problem solved!

 

Just need to decide whose face to use on the bill....Obama is too easy, I'd prefer the 'Obamaphone woman'.

26

Unfortunately how I see this playing out...

Obama refuses to do anything before the end of the year - tax rates, etc. go up...

House passes bill cutting tax rates back to where they are now for everyone...

Senate strips out tax cuts for the "rich" - sends back to house.

A. Boner caves and accepts - GOP gets blamed...

B. House holds fast cutting "rich" rates -- GOP gets blamed...

Either way - this ends up as "GOP gets blamed' for everything...

27 LET. IT. BURP!

28

"people who're suggesting certain "brilliant" gambits/complaining that Boehner and McConnell are weak don't seem to appreciate that the GOP is sorta screwed on this issue either way, just based on the mechanics of it"

 

 

Are you suggesting that  Republicans signed on to a deal that would leave  them screwed in any future scenario?

 

 

But they are so cagey and stuff.

 

 

 

 

29

I'm tired of arguing about saving $1.6T over 10 years.  Thats a drop in the bucket considering Obama runs that kind of deficit annually.   We are over the cliff and we just aren't willing to admit it.  The term "fiscal cliff" is a construct of the industrial media complex designed to placate the sheeple.  It has no real meaning except to roll of the tounge as the MFM blames the GOP. 

Give Obama what he wants.  Raise taxes on the rich.  Is it possible that the people would then see that his demagaugery is not a actual answer to our fiscal problems?  I doubt it, but every day the GOP fights raising the taxes on the "rich" is another day that the MFM and Democrats (BIRM) can spin the yarn that the GOP is the party of rich old white men. 

Obama has a populist slogan and no real solutions to the out of control deficit spending, let alone accumulated debt. 

30 GOP should do X, where X=deny the crisis mode governance impulse of the obama regime.

it's obvious that obama wants to relive 1996 for whatever reason he thinks it will benefit him (in 2016lolz)

31 Andy is the new Meatball?

32 Mr. President, define rich?

33 since obama refuses to negotiate in good faith and harry reid refuses to do anything, what can the house gop do?

pass bills, have senate respond. 

Being on the record is the only thing we can do.

34 26 people who're suggesting certain "brilliant" gambits/complaining that Boehner and McConnell are weak don't seem to appreciate that the GOP is sorta screwed on this issue either way, just based on the mechanics of it Posted by: JDP at December 04, 2012 06:01 PM (60GaT) Considering Bitch McConnel was the reason we got this they can both go fuck themselves

35

Why are they called Bush rates? Didn't SCOAMF sign them into law too?

He did, but it is fun to remind lefties that they advocate for keeping the Bush tax cuts.

36

#20 Those are not the only scenarios. 

 

One is to give Obama his damned tax rate increase, and make sure it is a big one but exempts small business income.  Extend the rest of the tax rates for one year.  Go home.  Republicans get cheers for compromising on a long-cherished position, then it's Obama's turn in the barrel to ante up on entitlement cuts if he wants another debt ceiling increase.. 

 

I see no downside to this scenario as long as idiots on the Right do not gfive Obama what he wants and have a mass freakout.  Are we REALLY going to split the Republican Party over a rather meaningless tax increase on people who mostly voted for Obama anyway?  I mean, HOW STUPID IS THAT. 

 

Obama only wins if we score an own goal here.

37

Yep.... I see the thinking...

 

Congress 'gets rid' of the Bush Tax CUTS... and raise Taxes...

 

So Obama swoops in with the Middle Class "Obama Tax Cuts".... and thus gets the credit for a Tax CUT, even though he RAISED Taxes...

 

Optics, over Reality.... for low information voters.

38 Don't drive angry.  DON'T DRIVE ANGRY!!!

39 Mr. President, did you know your just awesome ...

40 so...

"GOP should do X" where X=?

the only thing that X can be is what can be, and the only thing that is, is pass bills.

We have ideas.  The other side is playing pure politics.

what will it get us?  dunno.  nothing probably, but at least we tried instead of doing GOP natural strategy of losing automatically by negotiating against ourselves as obama goes on Ellen.

41 Let's just print a bunch of trillion dollar bills....problem solved!

Just need to decide whose face to use on the bill....Obama is too easy, I'd prefer the 'Obamaphone woman'.


The wookie's ass. Since you won't be able to buy food anyway, might as have as much help as you can get with the new diet.

42 Rockmom, ok if they demand a budget for a debt ceiling, then cut thru appropriations

43 So the Democrats are cheerfully pushing granny off the cliff?

44 Obama only wins if we score an own goal here.

Posted by: rockmom at December 04, 2012 06:06 PM (aBlZ1)

 

 

That's our specialty!

45 The GOP House should pass, like, 12 different plans and tell Obama and friends to take thier pick.  At the very least force the Senate Dems to pass a counter-offer of their own.

46 Hey middle-class Obama voter,  say good-bye to those EVIL Bush tax cuts and open up your wallet!

47
people who're suggesting certain "brilliant" gambits/complaining that Boehner and McConnell are weak don't seem to appreciate that the GOP is sorta screwed on this issue either way, just based on the mechanics of it

Posted by: JDP




And who wrote the mechanics into the Budget Control Act of 2011 as an ever so clever way to box Obama in?

Three guesses. first two don't count.

48 I'm serious, no more negotiating with Obama, pass the bill, go home.  I agree that the "fiscal cliff" is a fiction.  The WaPo has a totally disingenuous "tax calculator" on its website today trying to convince people that they will get a gigantic tax bill on January 2.  That's bullshit, even if the tax rates expire most people pay tax through withholding and they might have to cough up another $50 a pay period until this mess gets fixed.  But nobody is going to lose their house or not be able to pay rent in January.

49 Does anyone here seriously think it matters in the slightest that GOP does/does not pass bills/have ideas?

We're in a corner because we've refused for a long time to balance the federal budget and limit the banks to productive activities (loans for business expansion only). The pain is going to come. We should stop trying to put off taking our medicine and let it happen while Obama is holding the bag. Don't pass anything. tax compromise or debt limit increase.

50 I'd propose this:

Top rate of 37%
All other rates stay the same
Keystone is approved
Obamacare is delayed until 2015 from 2014

51 So, does this mean Kerry, that sad sack of s**t, gets the SoS for his important work on the Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction that set this s**t up? On the edge of my seat here to figure out what the "play" is for them once over the cliff, beyond the obvious recession (which is good for them because it's bad for us).

52

Can some real  moron  of  genius  tell me about when the fiscal cliff deal was signed?

 

Thanks.

53 I'm am sick and tired of climbing hills only to be told by the usual suspects that this is NOT the hill to die.

This IS the hill to die on.

Let. It. Burn.  Once and for all.

54 I enjoyed the Barron's letter to the editor thanking the youff of Amerikka for voting to ensure that we ( us old white guys ) will retain all teh benefits of SS and Medicare through our golden years.
If the kids think deficit spending to support my wrinkly old ass is cool, then it is!!1!!
If they don't care, why should I?
Thanks, kids!!1!!!

55 Serious Cat, past two years the House did send a lot of things to the Senate.  But Harry Reid cuckold them all.  So at this point, vote present and hand the Democrats the sh*t sammich they want.

56 Republicans and conservatives are going to get blamed for this regardless.  My advice, and I hate to sink this low, is to stand up for principle.  Do the right thing.  Let the coyotes howl.

57 Sorry I mean when was the approximate date the fiscal cliff deal was signed?

58 Regardless of how this plays out Obama and the Dems win big in 2014. Repubs thought pushing this off would get Romney elected. Didn't work. Now we're fucked.

End of the thread.  Everybody go to the next post.

59 And for all the "Republicans" who think the government needs more money, all I can say to you is, "As your President, I advise you to eat more mescaline", 'cuz wutsevah you smokin' now ain't the serious s**t. You need some brain chemistry to gets around those continuing trillion dollar deficits.

60 I see FAR more downside for Democrats and obama on this than Republicans, if we go off the cliff.

If you want to look at this purely through a political lens, if Republicans fold and agree to some sort of huge tax increase that will mainly hurt small business, the hit from the base will be far greater than a handful of votes from some low information voters.  And that may be exactly what Obama is trying to do, I can see enough conservatives say "the hell with it" and simply abandon the GOP, because what does it really stand for if they'll fold on that?  Are we just the "rape baby" Party?

I agree neither strategy will have Republicans smelling like a rose, but you're better off going with the one part of the base that every part of the coalition agrees with, which is not to raise taxes.

If Obama wants a Kamikaze situation, he's going to get it, but he might end up sinking his whole ship to kill a single pilot.

61 mpfs, I agree .

62 Who cares. Meh, we may be surprised and this backfires and a great 3rd party conservative destroys the libs in 2016. It will push everyone away from these tools.

63 I don't know why some of you think Obama is going to own this if we go over the cliff. He's simply not, polls have shown that the Repub's (and therefore conservative policies) will get all of the blame.

Voting present and letting him own the very real consequences of the next recession (which we are already in) and the decreased Tax revenues is the only way to answer this problem. I'm not necessarily advocating to burn down the United State's Economy, i'm just saying.....let's hand the Democrats the matches and see what happens. Vote present, give them everything.

on a related note; BURN IT DOWN!!!!

64
i think the best argument would be to say that higher rates on top earners won't wreck the economy
Posted by: JDP




I don't know.  This is a moving target, but it appears you'd have have the tax rate increase, the Obamacare surcharge on investment income, the proposed limits on deductions, and since the high income earners are primarily in Blue states, whatever state tax increases are coming on.

Taken together, it seems significant enough to shift investments to shelters rather than growth.  That's not going to help the economy,

65 Did you know lead paint is the biggest threat to our children? But here we are, worrying about the demise of the USA. How selfish of us.

66 Imma crack the whip only enough to help you develop a taste for it.

67 "...Obama affirmatively wants to go over the cliff, wants the hike in middle class taxes, so he can then pose as the the hero who subsequently lowers them." Because that just worked *so well* last time he tried that stunt. Benghazi never happened, nope, not at all.

68 @54 The Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction set it up, and L'il Barry signed into law the Budget Control Act of 2011 in August (of that year). At that time, I parsed what Chilli Palmer told Leo the Dry-cleaner in "Get Shorty" (1995) ("I just can't believe you could be so fucking stupid') in safe-for-kids terms and told my kids that this was probably the end of the G.O.P., if Obama gets re-elected. Maybe that's what it's about, after all. Hell, the super committee even had "Light Bulbs" Upton on it.

69 Obama causes us to go over the cliff. He'll then blame the GOP for raising the taxes on the middle class. The left's demonetization of the right and all that America stands for will be complete, and we will see a majority of the country, having become hooked on government handouts and welfare, tear down the successful in vengence and then blame the kulaks 1% for decades as everyone rots in the "equality" of misery. Perhaps we've gotten to the point where we have to pull a Hari Seldon and start planning on how to rebuild and take back during the afthermath... How much are houses going for on Terminus...

70  The nearer your destination the more you're slip slidin away.

71 Play the long game here.

Obama's big spending ways haven't really come home to roost.  If even WITH this massive tax increase of going "off the cliff", we're still running massive deficits, at the very least it's a teachable moment.

If say Boehner caved and gave Obama everything he wanted, do you really think House Republicans are going to suddenly become popular?  Congress is always unpopular. 

Let it burn.

72 Still here, still free! No charges filed against me. I knew all that fundraising for Obama would pay off for me!

73

Let's remember that the only possible reason why somebody would pursue a massive new entitlement program (ObamaCare) when the world's most epic financial crisis in history is on the way is Cloward-Piven.

 

This strategy of the Fabian Socialist literally pursues financial armegeddon - in order to justify "remaking" (or, as a certain someone puts it "transforming") a mostly-capitalist country into a socialist one.  The idea is to "blame capitalism", and they are already succeeding at blaming the Republicans (who are the only ones remotely interested in capitalism).

 

So, in summary, good luck to the guys in Congress who don't realize they're "playing chicken" with somebody who wants to total their car. Cloward-Piven is not only being applied, but it is working.

 

74

How about we agree to tax Bob Costas at 99.9%?

 

That would be 2% for each point of his IQ.  Cool!

75 We are so far along on this irresponsible spending and no budget discipline that I cannot see how we are going to climb out of the hole we got into, especially since we have not stopped digging!

We have 1/2 of the people paying no taxes and have approved O again. The fiscal game is over; it is too late to expect something positive from two parties that are playing political games when we have 100 x 10^12 DOLLARS in unfunded liabilities facing this country.  This is a game for fools.  The question is when rating agencies lower the rating of the US currency, and to what level.

Tax the sh*t out of the rich?  Great original idea.  Watch the money move out of the country.  Most wealthy people in the US know how to make money because they are smart (except the Kennedies, heh).  I am sure money is already moving.  You act, rather than wait to react.  Businesses are making existential decisions whether to stay in and struggle, or bag it.  401K's?  See the Argentina experience.  Responsible people do not trust the Feral Government.  It is not a good survival tool.

The problem is that O does not care.  He wants to put this country in its place for its sins, in his view.  That is the real problem we need to deal with.  O and his Dem Congressional stooges, as well as milquetoast Repubs.  They are not interested in solving problems.

How are we going to stop that?  That is the existential question.

Ima burnin' firewood for heat.

76 The real sad or disturbing thing about this whole situation is that O is trying to make his Kenya socialist Utopia when all the commies in the world, except for a few morons, have rejected it as unworkable, and have gone on to a capitalist type system.  Now THAT is learning nothing from history.

77 Why isn't anyone talking about the Iowa newspaper not on the record Obama interview that the camapign later released where Obama said that he was basically going over the cliff. He stated that he was going to allow the sequester and the Bush tax cuts to expire on everyone at that was his solution to the deficit. It should be said by every Republican Senator and Congressman when they are doing any kind of public interview. Let Obami's works come back and haunt the liar in chief.

78 Sorry about the bad grammer in the above post I blame it on the Chicago Public School system.

79 The GOP leadership is almost as malevolent as the Democrats, but far less smart. They've purged conservatives from committee assignments and fought against the Teaparty since 2010. They represent special interests just as much as the Democrats. And when the GOP had control of all three branches of government, they proved that they were no different from the Democrats at all - they overspent, fought for Amnesty, etc. They lost in part because nobody trusts them.

Now they're boxed into a corner, and whatever they do will be spun to low information voters by the Marxist Media, so the GOP will get the blame for all problems and Obama will get the credit for anything positive. I don't really care. They deserve their fate. They can all go FOADIAF.

Constitutional conservatives and small government conservatives need to leave the GOP and form a third party. (Original idea, I know.) If a third party ran candidates, and all of them lost, leaving us with NO representation in Congress, would the situation be any different than it is today?

80 Congress has on its platinum parachute and wants to go cliff diving for fun and profit. There are so many more paychecks, nest eggs, and profits to raid and redistribute at the bottom of the cliff that neither Congress nor Obama's merry band of thieves will give the middle class their money back once taken. Just like Social Security, which would be flush with funds had it been a trust fund and not a Congressional piggy bank, this black hole of a government gives nothing back. Takers, all.

81 Obama is ordering his troops to "Stand Down". Let Americans die.