1 Ouch. Serves the bastard right, tho.

2 In the Joe Paterno library will they allow sodomy on the third floor?

3

What took so long?

4 The mills of the gods grind slow, but they grind exceeding fine!

5 Beware the JoePa trolls.

6 Because nothing bad has ever happened to kids in a library?

Really keeping Paterno's name on the library is akin to naming the the shower room after Sandusky.

The manner in which the university covered things up for a decade makes this no surprise. Every single one of those bastards should be charged with obstruction of justice and as accessories to the crimes. The administrators were actively involved in allowing criminal activity to continue under their watch and should be culpable to the fullest extent possible under criminal & civil law.

7 Is he in front of you, BCoS?

8 Pederasty U, No death to the football team really means College Football has no real problem with buggering young boys. Organized sports is just as much a problem for America as democrats.

 One distracts citizens from engaging in real issues the other... damn the other does the same thing imagine that.

Fuck Penn State and Collegiate / Professional sports. Buggering bastards all of them..

9 Kill the program.  Anyway, the university's new cash cow is Climate Change.

10 In my opinion the statue should be melted down and recast into a memorial for the victims. But that would require common decency on the part of UPenn.

11 I've got Oscars and every movie star goes to bat for me

Glad I chose the right profession!

12 And once again I got the last post on an open thread that no one will see. Meh, just your basic LSM slams. Anyone here would have done better. This whole PSU thing is so sad but also a microcosm of the world as it is today. Strap in folks, we have to keep fighting against the tide but...

13 Never before have so many good and decent PSU Alums had the opportunity to do as much good.  The PSU Track Alumni look forward to taking the "Success with Honor" mantle.  None of us are worthy of a statue, but then neither is anyone else.

14 Maybe they should put up a building dedicated to the study of evil, corruption, and weakness. There the statue would rightly be well stationed.

15 Out damned sock!  http://tinyurl.com/7lq5la4

16 UPenn doesn't deserve a football program anymore than Paterno deserves a library.

17 I have to agree with Y-not in the open thread.  Penn state should be removed from the Big 10.

18 the school should have been shut down...then burned down

19 Every time I hit refresh it wants to start the video. Guess I'm supposed to get some stuff done around here.

20 If Sandusky had abused girls, there would have been at least 10 student groups having all night sit-ins and graffiti'ing the library -- even in the summer -- until football was shut down. The usual suspects have been silent in all this.

21 They're replacing it with a statue of Michael Jackson high-fiving Roman Polanski.

22 2 In the Joe Paterno library will they allow sodomy on the third floor?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 22, 2012 12:10 PM (j1gX1)

Nahh, in the basement.  Back room.

23 They're replacing the Paterno statue with a life-size likeness of Pedobear.

24 College sports is big, big money. I think many folks outside the college knew about this.

25 Waiting for my wife to get ready to go out. I think I've aged 6 months

26 The rear entrance to the Paterno Library is closed until further notice.

27

What kind of fucking asshole nutriding bullshit school erects a statue of a coach who is still living AND coaching there?

 

Fuck Penn State and its assrape enabling fans.

28 They won't kill the football program partially because of Title IX, I suspect.  A lot of women's sports exist on college campuses just to balance out the football program.  Get rid of football and the university would likely dump those programs in a heartbeat.

29 Oh, and good afternoon, everybody.

30 Waiting for my wife to get ready to go out. I think I've aged 6 months Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 22, 2012 12:34 PM (j1gX1) You had time to write a novel and paint your house. Been there.

31 I always figured the index digit on JoPa's statue was a symbolic indication of his football program's ranking.  Who knew it was actually his stink finger?

32 They won't kill the football program partially because of Title IX, I suspect. A lot of women's sports exist on college campuses just to balance out the football program. Get rid of football and the university would likely dump those programs in a heartbeat. Posted by: Alex at July 22, 2012 12:35 PM (3+RPg) That would would bring out the protesters, for sure.

33 Waiting for my wife to get ready to go out. I think I've aged 6 months

At your age?  That's like half the time you have left!

34 A source of division.  Oh that's rich. 

35 hi eoj and i agree.....f penn

36 I guess Sandusky's suppository endorsement contract was cancelled.

37 Really ?  The death penalty would be preferable ?  So that we can punish any number of people, mostly student athletes on the PSU football team that had absolutely nothing to do with this ?

This was never about sports, it was never about Penn State football.  The NCAA - which I already think is one of the most ridiculously corrupt and capricious organizations on the planet - has no business here.  NONE.

Thank you, NCAA, for piling on.  So in keeping with your mission in regards to amateur athletics.

38

...."division"...?

 

There are still some people there who are trying to defend Paterno?

39 I disagree with removing the Paterno statute. Not because I think that the scumbag should be honored. I believe it should remain but the plaque on it changed to reflect that he allowed the abuse of children and that for all his glory as a football coach, he failed as a man and as a human being. Hopefully, they will do something like that at the library. Simply erasing his name is the Soviet way to deal with failure. The fact that the NCAA is not going to give the death penalty shows that the NCAA doesn't get it. Perhaps it's time to replace that organization.

40 I think when the full extend of Sandusky came out Joe gave up on life and died faster then a person with his cancer should. So many different thing would be happening if he did not die. They would have removed the statue with a tank and a rope and not even an hallway would be named after him. When he is frog marched to jail as well. As he died it will be a slow shake to remove his legacy piece by piece and not all at once.

41 There are still some people there who are trying to defend Paterno? Posted by: wheatie at July 22, 2012 12:41 PM (MbB0O) Two threads down.

42 I'm amazed at how stupid some of you people are.  Really ? Burn the school down ?  How many THOUSANDS of people benefit from Penn State on an annual basis ?  And yet you would take down the entire university for the actions of a handful.  Regardless of how terrible those actions were, thousands of innocent people should not suffer for the actions of a few.

Unreal. 

43
Joe: "Jerry, Mike tells me you've been fucking boys in the locker room again. How many times do I have to tell you to keep it in your own basement."

Jerry: "Coach, when I see those glistening smooth glutes I can't help myself."

Joe: "Then I think you need to shower at home from now on, OK"

Jerry: "Not gonna' happen again coach. Promise."

Joe:

Jerry:

Joe: "So...you and the wife still coming for dinner after Mass Sunday?"

Jerry: "Wouldn't miss it."

44 Welcome to Joe Paterno Memorial Library

Deliveries in rear.

45 A statue? Really? That'll show 'em! They should have their scholarships and bowl eligibility stripped for ten years and be out into the FCS for ten years. There can be no countenancing child rape.

46 because the corruption of the school admin and board and the ncaa allowed this shit to go on KNOWINGLY FOR YEARS.....at the expense of childrens asses... too bad...close the entire place down....and fuck the town too.....who would EVER let their kid go to school there? creeps that's who.....

47 Oh but now there is Title IX in the science department, all those female athletes will just be transferred to the Engineering program.

48

O/T. I was watching Jeneane Pirro last night dicussing the movie murderer with a couple of nut jobs from NY. She asked them what might be the motive. One of the guys rambled on for a bit before he said "we may find out the shooter was sexually molested as a child". In response, Pirro blurted out "Oh Bullshit".

 

It was a beautiful thing to witness.

49 I never understood why people that are skilled in sports are called "heroes." 

50 Getting rid of FDR sock

51 Unreal. Posted by: deadrody at July 22, 2012 12:43 PM (2NNWw) Cemeteries are filled with indispensable men. Penn State is no better.

52 Never understood why some people lose all sense of sanity over fucking college sports.

53 JoPa:  Um, Jerry?  Yeah, would you agree that our wide receiver program is going like gangbusters, while our tight end program is lacking?

Jerry:  Spot-on, coach. Let's work on that, shall we?

54

I feel better already with that statue gone.

/s

55 Deadrody, Sandusky was just at the wrong place at the wrong time, right?

56 The NCAA says they're going to levy a penalty on Penn State for all this. Idiots. It will clearly be a tax.

57 I never understood why people that are skilled in sports are called "heroes."

Posted by: lan sing at July 22, 2012 12:47 PM (9/NoY)

Seems like "competent" is more accurate when describing an athlete, but the media culture trivializes everything, especially when it has to do with character (of the good selfless kind)!

58 Univ of Penn is in Philly, different school.
PSU is one of the 10 largest schools nationwide, burning it down wouldn't be safe to do unless there's a days long downpour raining.

59 It's not up to the justice system to keep the people who benefit from Penn State in the good. It was up to Penn State. PSU didn't do what they should have done, and all the ancillary suffering should be laid at their feet. Penn State football and the administration need to burn.

60 They should melt down the statue and make sidewalk tiles out of it, leading to the empty pedestal where the statue used to be. They could call it The Joe Paterno Walk Of Shame.

61

How does hurting athletes and students help those molested children? I do not see the NCAA's right to impose sanctions upon the innocent in order to punish the guilty. Now, if the NCAA wishes to file civil suits against administrators and coaches, etc., for dragging the NCAA through the mud via those folks inaction, then that would be great. This stuff needs to be handled in the courts, not on the playing fields.

By the way, fuck the IOC for choosing this particular moment to strip American athletes of their 2004 Gold medals. Why now, if not to slap America a little during a time when the world is focused on the games. Bastards! America haters! Pukes!!

62 The innocent people connected to Penn State don't deserve punishment, but that is not enough to stay the hand. Sometimes shit happens. It is better to crush the kind of evil that caused and permitted these crimes than to go halfway for the sake of others. Innocent people of good character could live with that.

63 didn't add the state after it..sorry

64 Posted by: and irresolute at July 22, 2012 12:54 PM (Q492A) You're going to be really pissed off tomorrow.

65 Amazing that this is ALL Paterno's fault. Not the AD, not the Chancellor and not the President or the DA, all of whom Paterno reported the allegation to. It was just the old man's fault.

 

66 eman exactly

67 #64, The point is to financially punish the school by docking the program. UPenn was looking the other way because football is a giant cash cow for the university.

This happens all around the country. Because sports programs are such money makers, schools overlook all kinds of criminal behavior.

68 Paterno's program was the honey pot that Sandusky used to bring these kid in.  If he couldn't stand up and even ban Sandusky's child-raping ass from the facility, fuck him.

69 Paterno hated that statute btw.  It was put there by nonfriends of his.

Louis Freeh made a cool 10 million.

The lazy NCAA sloppily uses Freeh's unofficial report instead of doing their own investigation.

It will get messier

70

In Columbus, on the TV last week, a guy named Rob Smith was being interviewed about this.

Rob Smith played on the offensive line for PSU back in the early 80's which makes him about 50 right now.

He stated he is "still proud of Penn State" and "playing for Joe Paterno", and he will wear his school colors more often to "support the university".

My school, right or wrong.  And that's the way a lot of people think. 

There are a lot of penalties that I could dream up to punish Penn State, but those mainly are going to hurt the players and students there, some who remain loyal to the idea or illusion of what people thought of this person who was Joe Paterno.

In a much larger sense, this is an indictment of college football, and major college, Division 1 football  "win at any cost!!".  Well, we have seen what the cost was for Penn State.  Jerry Sandusky ass-raping young men in the shower and the people who should have been alarmed and stopped him looking the other way and denying what was happening.  To protect their football program.

Well, fuck that noise.

Penn State's football program should be punished severly.  If they kicked them out of the Big Ten, that would be alright with me.  If they killed the program, regardless of what that did to the revenue stream the enables Title IX sports, that would be alright with me.

But there is dirt under the carpet of every major football program in the country.  Every one.  You just have to be willing to look for.  Because to one degree or another, they are all doing stuff they should be ashamed of - but they aren't, until they get caught.

71 Please keep the vicitim's family's of the Colorado Massacre in your thoughts and prayers....hug your loved ones....later

72 Bunker mentality.

Any normal business would have purged his name from everything, and fired anyone who spoke his name again.

73

Posted by: Scobface at July 22, 2012 12:56 PM (IoNBC)

"You're going to be really pissed off tomorrow."

 

Well, my Dad used to say that I was the most even-tempered boy he had ever seen. I was mad as hell all of the time! lol!

74

48O/T. I was watching Jeneane Pirro last night dicussing the movie murderer with a couple of nut jobs from NY. She asked them what might be the motive. One of the guys rambled on for a bit before he said "we may find out the shooter was sexually molested as a child". In response, Pirro blurted out "Oh Bullshit".

It was a beautiful thing to witness.

 

-----------

 

Cool.

Good for Judge Janeane.

I stopped watching the coverage yesterday, but flipped it on about an hour ago....

 

John Scott n FNC was interviewing the owner of a local Firing Range, on the phone, who said he wanted to "flag" this guy Holmes.

He said the guy was "talking weird...in low gutteral tones" and in a sort of mocking way.

 

"Talking like the Joker"....is what the range-owner said someone there mentioned....that it sounded like. 

But since he hadn't seen that movie, he didn't know that or make the connection....but said it was strange.

75 And quit calling it UPenn.  That is the University of Pennsylvania

76 Amazing that this is ALL Paterno's fault. Not the AD, not the Chancellor and not the President or the DA, all of whom Paterno reported the allegation to. It was just the old man's fault.

Exactly. Everyone knows that Paterno was completely powerless to do anything at Penn State.

77 The problem here wasn't just Paterno and it wasn't just the President of Penn State.  This scandal only came out after Paterno obtained the most wins in college football.  The press didn't report it.  The police didn't move in.  I don't believe that no one among of the many, many people Sandusky molested went to the cops.  I don't believe that no one in the press had heard anything.  Too many people were invested in the football program's success to damage it, though--outside the university as well as inside it.

The fact that onr kid was bullied out of school for having reported this, even **after** everything came out, showed where people's priorities were.

If they understand that you can't be a bystander to something like this, that being a bystander isn't the easy way out (that it will damage your program, your own profits, and your team much more than actually taking action will), then you'll be less likely to just sit on the sidelines in the future.  Paterno, Sandusky, and the President of Penn State aren't the only bad guys here.  It's everybody who was weak, everybody who found it easier to look the other way or make excuses.

If these penalties damages those others as well, people will be more likely to show courage next time or at least to be intimidated (if they are going to be intimidated) into doing the right thing.

78 It is perfectly fair for PSU to take its turn in the barrel.

79 People who would name a library after a guy whose accomplishments are summarized in a football win-loss record have bigger things to worry about than whether or not they are "tone deaf".

80 I just hope they don't stop until every enabler in America gets the same.  Sure, Sandusky attracts attention due to the Penn State institution, but as Rahmmy says, we can't let this delightful crisis go to waste.  NOW is the time to move against enablers everywhere.

And let's not stop with child abuse, either.  And the better the perpetrator's public image and good works, the harder he/she should fall.  Some community good-heart sees some kid stumble off the Righteous Path and elects to give him another chance - make sure he never holds his head up again!!

Now - who do we get to head up the Investigation Star Chamber.  Janet Napolitano's pretty well-groomed for the spot.  OOOhhh - this is great stuff, and so easy to feel proud of ourselves, too.  Because, of course, we would never enable anyone.

81 Paterno's defenders say, "He reported it." That's just a lie. He reported nothing.

82

I never understood why people that are skilled in sports are called "heroes."

Posted by: lan sing at July 22, 2012 12:47 PM (9/NoY)

George Carlin once said....."Sports 'hero'? Really? Kids need 'sports heroes' to look up to? If your kid needs a hero and you ain't it, you're both fucked."

83 I remember when Bear Bryant would get into deep shit with the NCAA for buying some dirt poor black kid his first suit.

84 Now - who do we get to head up the Investigation Star Chamber. Janet Napolitano's pretty well-groomed for the spot. OOOhhh - this is great stuff, and so easy to feel proud of ourselves, too. Because, of course, we would never enable anyone. Posted by: A One-Eyed Cat Peepin' in the Seafood Store at July 22, 2012 01:05 PM (eMtQ2) Feh.

85 79 And quit calling it UPenn. That is the University of Pennsylvania

Posted by: Roger at July 22, 2012 01:01 PM (TOVGS)

Okay,

University of Pennsylvania - Happy Vally.

Are you happy?

86 Weren't these guys also named as accessories?

President Graham Spanier,
Athletic Director Tim Curley, and
Vice President Gary Schultz


Kill the program, one year for every year of tenure of the perps. 

87 63 wins

88

Joe Pa took a lot  of his hard earned money from coaching football at Penn State and used it to endow the library fund that built the new library.  That's why his name is on the plaque.

 

See, that's what they do.  The coaches get paid ridiculous sums of money to recruit and coach kids to play football at the Div 1 level.  Then most coaches who have any PR sense, donate a lot of it back to buy indulgences with the rest of the university.

 

See how swell Joe was for donating all that money that the University gave him that they probably shouldn't have in the first place?  And that's how it works.  Just about everywhere.

89 Penn State football was the cash cow that the school administration gladly milked for their own purposes. Ignoring Sanduskys indiscretions was part and parcel of this.

90 52"Never understood why some people lose all sense of sanity over fucking college sports."

Posted by: nickless at July 22, 2012 12:49 PM (MMC8r

 

 

 

 

South Bend built the "College football Hall of fame" years ago and are still trying to pay for it. i guess not everyone is so hot for Notre Dame hysteria. I think it's called being self-centered.

91 Strange MCPO that when Paterno found out about the abuse HE made the AD etc., change their course of action toward Sandusky. Shows me, that stupid, old, pedophile enabler Paterno HAD THE MOST POWER.

92 To all the apologists--what Paterno knew or didn't know, say or didn't say, is ultimately irrelevant (although I think that the investigations showed that he knew what was going on and whatever he did or didn't do was cowardly and ineffective).

He was in charge. He was responsible. If his higher ups knew, they were responsible as well and should be charged as accessories. But ultimately, it was Paterno's program.

So can you please, please stop trying to pass the buck.

93 @AD

Nope because sandusky was Pennsylvania State University.  Not UPenn

94 Really guys, come on. Why shut down all of Nazi Germany because of the actions of a few? So many innocent German citizens are benefiting from the Nazis, economically and what not, so why punish them too? Unreal!

95 Some community good-heart sees some kid stumble off the Righteous Path and elects to give him another chance - make sure he never holds his head up again!!


And elects to give him another chance again...and again...and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again.

Nevermind that "giving a another chance" can involveddifferent standards when you're talking about someone who was, say, arrested for shoplifting and a child-molester.

This analogy is reminiscent of the old Simpson's mob episode:

Bart: Uh, say, are you guys crooks?
Fat Tony: Bart, um, is it wrong to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family?
Bart: No.
Tony: Well, suppose you got a large starving family. Is it wrong to steal a truckload of bread to feed them?
Bart: Uh uh.
Tony: And, what if your family don't like bread? They like... cigarettes?
Bart: I guess that's okay.
Tony: Now, what if instead of giving them away, you sold them at a price that was practically giving them away. Would that be a crime, Bart?
Bart: Hell, no!

There are different standards and more cautious judgment that a person should use.

96 87 I remember when Bear Bryant would get into deep shit with the NCAA for buying some dirt poor black kid his first suit. Posted by: Ed Anger at July 22, 2012 01:07 PM (7+pP9) "I ain't nothin' but a winner."

97 "ESPN has reported that there will be no "death penalty", but that the penalties are so severe that the death penalty would have been preferable."

That's hard to believe. The entire school, and team and fans and enablers need to be taught a hard lesson. "It's not our fault" is a whiney excuse. Sometimes there's collateral damage. In this case, it's should be intentional, because it's so well- warranted.

98 Mare - Cite your source please.

99 Nope because sandusky was Pennsylvania State University. Not UPenn

Posted by: Roger at July 22, 2012 01:12 PM (TOVGS)

Nonsense, are we really going to quibble over names?

This is like the people who went to Wharton insisting they are somehow different from the rest of the Penn State system.  It's a good school.  There's nothing to be ashamed of.

100 MCPO, the Freeh report.

101 Page 24  Curley emails Schultz and Spanier and says he [Curley] has changed his mind about the plan “after giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe [Paterno] yesterday.” Curley now proposes to tell Sandusky “we feel there is a problem” and offer him “professional help.” “If he is cooperative we would work with him to handle informing” the Second Mile; if Sandusky does not cooperate, “we donÂ’t have a choice and will inform” DPW and the Second Mile. “Additionally, I will let him know that his guests are not permitted to use our facilities.”

102 "I will let him know that his guests are not permitted to use our facilities.” I give Paterno credit, he didn't want Sandusky raping boys in HIS shower rooms.

103 Sheesh!  Some people are brain dead and stupid.  University of Pennsylvania is a different place!  No connection what so ever

http://www.upenn.edu/ != http://www.psu.edu/

104 Hut hut in the butt!

105 Yes, but they are both in Pennsylvania, so they are actually the same thing.

106 The enablers should be horse whipped, tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail - a rail forged from Paterno's statue.

Make Penn's football program a white-hot radioactive exclusion zone, even a fool kid fresh out of high school won't dare tread that gridiron.

107 The Goddess Irony says if they had done the right thing in the first place they would be heroes and the football program and the University would be in fine shape.

108 Posted by: Roger at July 22, 2012 01:24 PM (TOVGS) Good grief. Give it a rest, dude.

109 I'll be interested to see what the penalties are. Doesn't serve justice to punish the totally innocent players, coaches, etc. But I imagine they'll pay the highest price. Can't "punish" brick and mortar buildings or ethereals like "reputation" so people will pay.

110

"Amazing that this is ALL Paterno's fault. Not the AD, not the Chancellor and not the President or the DA, all of whom Paterno reported the allegation to. It was just the old man's fault."

 

Don't waste your breath trying to argue with this lynch mob.

 

Just get out of their way, let them shoot their [collective] wad; in six months' time, they'll have completely forgotten about it all, and none of them will even be able to tell you who Jerry Sandusky was.

 

By that time, they'll have all moved on to The Next Big Thing - whatever that proves to be.

111
I never understood why people that are skilled in sports are called "heroes."

Athletics, like any other human activity, requires intense dedication to reach the top ranks of the profession.  Natural talent may give someone the initial advantage to start out, but the world is full of men and women with a lot of natural talent who never did anything with it.  I don't see anything wrong with telling a kid that they should emulate the work ethic of a champion athlete, whether or not it's in sports or science or anything else.

 

112

The former Chair ESPN interviews seems to be concerned that their going overboard since this isn't a level playing field issue.

I disagree however.  The NCAA states repeated that one of their goals (that they fail at all the time) is to ensure that colleges don't let athletics become the driving force at their institutions.  If they fail to act here, it will show that they have no problem with an institution letting a football program become so powerful it not only goes against the interests of the students, but also of CHILDREN.  No sports program should be that freaking powerful, and the NCAA needs to send that message here, and now.

Take the horse out back and put 'er down I say.

113 What is weird? ESPN reported that Penn State had a particularly good recruiting year. 14 great signs. Some kids/parents still don't get it: http://tinyurl.com/7ykuv7u

114 Sheesh! Some people are brain dead and stupid. University of Pennsylvania is a different place! No connection what so ever

Oh, come on.  Why would they make the names so similar?

It's like if I started a University of Harvard as opposed to Harvard University.  Do you think Harvard would ever allow that?  Hell no.  And that's an Ivy League school!

I realize some schools are insecure about their names--which is why a place like Southwest Texas recently changed its name to Texas State and why some Penn State grads might be interested in doing the same thing here, but there's no reason to be pedantic about this.

115 By that time, they'll have all moved on to The Next Big Thing - whatever that proves to be. Posted by: Barack Insane O-ButtFuck at July 22, 2012 01:28 PM (Z2i+W) You again? Still looking for that video tape, I see.

116 Any football player that gets a full boat from Penn State should decline and go somewhere else. Penn State's football will be dead. No one will want to play around the perverts ghost.

117 112 The Goddess Irony says if they had done the right thing in the first place they would be heroes and the football program and the University would be in fine shape. Posted by: eman at July 22, 2012 01:27 PM (bbW7j) So true. What if Joe Paterno had done what any decent human being would have done? "What? A little boy got raped by one of my coaches? Don't say another word. I'm calling the police."

118 The Goddess Irony says if they had done the right thing in the first place they would be heroes and the football program and the University would be in fine shape.

That's true for most scandals.  People are gambling that they can avoid the unpleasantness at hand by ignoring or hiding the problem and that somehow it will go away.  It rarely does.

119

The only good Penn stater is a dead Penn stater. You guys are finally are finally starting to understand the system! Inshallah! 

120 Penn and PSU are DIFFERENT SCHOOLS!!!

http ://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/University_of_Pennsylvania

http ://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/Pennsylvania_State_University

121 114 I'll be interested to see what the penalties are. Doesn't serve justice to punish the totally innocent players, coaches, etc. But I imagine they'll pay the highest price. Can't "punish" brick and mortar buildings or ethereals like "reputation" so people will pay.

Posted by: Lincolntf at July 22, 2012 01:28 PM (HethX)

 

Totally agree!  NCAA is about to ruin the college athletic experience for many  players.

 

It is easy to see why Sandusky the Pedophile would get his linebackers to play so hard.  Poor play would lead to a post game buggering.  Yikes!!

122 Indiana University of Pennsylvania = Indiana University then I guess

123 115 "...all of whom Paterno reported the allegation to. It was just the old man's fault."

What is it about the difference between "reporting" and "stopping the abuse" that you don't understand?

124 Too big to fail. Too big to punish. Tribalism and bunker mentality run wild.

125 118 What is weird? ESPN reported that Penn State had a particularly good recruiting year. 14 great signs. Some kids/parents still don't get it: http://tinyurl.com/7ykuv7u They are probably guys who like little boys so they do understand what all the brew ha ha is all about....

126 "What is it about the difference between "reporting" and "stopping the abuse" that you don't understand?" AMEN!

127 I'm guessing, there might be legal reasons why they can't just wily-nily change the name of the library.

There's also monetary considerations also. Stationary, labels, software, website, documents, University brochures and a whole bunch of other things that have the library's name on it. It't not cheap changing all that stuff and it can't get done on a Sunday morning.

Besides it's not as big a symbol as the statue and the rebels can't tear the f'n library down very easily. The statue was going one way or another.

Me I don't think it matters much as long as the Paterno Apologists are silenced.

128
Some kids/parents still don't get it:

Actually, this isn't necessarily a stupid thing to do.

The program has just been devastated by the scandal, but there are likely no other big scandals waiting. 

Penn State will want to rehabilitate it's reputation quickly, which means they'll pay for some respected name to step into the head coach position.

Penn State won't be competing for the top talent because that talent will have other options that will look much better.  This means for a mid level player who might not have gotten noticed anywhere else Penn State could offer a chance to stand out.

129 @125 It makes it a bit more difficult to criticize libtards who don't do the research if we don't do it as well. Confusing a private with a public university on the similarity of the name is quite pathetic.

130 125 Penn and PSU are DIFFERENT SCHOOLS!!!

127 Indiana University of Pennsylvania = Indiana University then I guess

I realize some people are ashamed of what happened, but, look it has a fine academic reputation, mid-top tier!  I mean, sure, no one will ever mistake it for say, Columbia...or Brown, but this scandal aside, its reputation is solid.

Don't you think trying to disassociate yourself from the school this way is a little extreme?

131 Not too big to punish, too dead to punish. Or in Sandusky's case, already punished. Everyone who knew anything should get it in the neck, everyone else in the program is innocent as anyone on here right now.

132 @135 AD, please do some basic googling. One is a state university, one is a private one, both are located in Pennsylvania, hence the name.

DaveA's wiki links in 125 are a good start.

133 Confusing a private with a public university on the similarity of the name is quite pathetic.

Don't be ridiculous . . .

134 I'm sure there are kids who wanted to play football for Penn State their whole lives and if the program is trashed and they can't play there, well that's sad but really not all that important. It's is the price you pay for doing the right thing and showing the country/community/anyone that football is not more important than the lives of innocent kids.

135 @ 137- Woody and Bo were close friends, ya knucklehead.

136 For Heaven's sake AD is kidding you guys. Relax, he knows the difference.

137 135 AD, please do some basic googling. One is a state university, one is a private one, both are located in Pennsylvania, hence the name.

Oh, come on.  That's impossible.  Why would they call a private university "University of Pennsylvania?"  Next thing, you'll be telling me it's an Ivy.

138

Fuck Penn State and Collegiate / Professional sports.

 

Ban athletic scholarships. Period. You got to university to study. If you want to play sports too, do so, but as a walk-on. Put the "amateur" back into amateur athletics.

139 AD, I'm doing just the opposite.  But I guess you're drunk or just too miserable to get it

140 IUP is in Indiana county PA.  Indiana University is in IN.

Or did I miss the Sun Aft open [sarc]

141 142 For Heaven's sake AD is kidding you guys. Relax, he knows the difference.

Posted by: mare at July 22, 2012 01:41 PM (A98Xu)

And done.

Sorry guys, it's just too much damn fun.

142 Ban athletic scholarships. Period. You got to university to study. If you want to play sports too, do so, but as a walk-on. Put the "amateur" back into amateur athletics.

This x100. 

143 Sandusky was convicted a month ago, all was revealed before it went to the jury.  What was Penn State waiting for, they couldn't quite decide if the statue would go or not?  Buncha shitbirds.

144 @142 I think I just got that with the following post. Well played.

All this makes me glad I didn't go to PSU.

145 UPenn is the redheaded stepchild of the Ivy League, much like Olbermann's cow college.

146 What kind of fucking asshole nutriding bullshit school erects a statue of a coach who is still living AND coaching there? ------------------------------------ {{{ cough }}} Florida State {{{ cough, cough }}} Sorry, something caught in the old gullet!

147 Posted by: Roger at July 22, 2012 01:42 PM (TOVGS) Roger, nobody gives a shit except you. The fact that maybe, somewhere, some clueless person is unable to correctly identify a university DOES NOT MATTER.

148 The NCAA acting this quickly (the Freeh report came out just 10 days ago) must mean it is accepting Penn State's proposals to punish itself.  The new administration has flushed the old regime. All of those implicated in the Sandusky scandal are gone.  A few may end up in jail.  The statue had to come down, and it has.  Keeping the nhe name on the library?  Disappointing but understandable.  Whatever is announced tomorrow will almost certainly be the new Penn State administration's proposals to punish itself.  Penn State is not fighting all this, but it is fighting for its life.  It's not defending its former regime or trying to make excuses for past behavior.  It's trying to survive, and football as Penn State has known it will be gone after tomorrow because Penn State knows it cannot survive with that kind of football program.  At this point, Paterno defenders are living in a dream world.  And those calling for scorched earth treatment of all things Penn State are not much better than a lynch mob.  Decent, reasonable people are at last in positions of authority at Penn State.  Their efforts to atone for these horrors, and to continue Penn State's proper missions-- high level undergraduate and graduate education at a reasonable cost, and world class research in a number of hard science fields-- should be encouraged.

149 While you're on campus, don't miss the Michael Jackson Memorial Kid's Puppet Theater.

150 Ban athletic scholarships . . . sounds like something Bloomberg would suggest.  I agree in principle but am a little squeamish about telling people what they can do with their money.  Crazy talk, I know.

151 One institution fucks up, install a universal ban! Brilliant, how do you feel about gun contol?

152

What kind of fucking asshole nutriding bullshit school erects a statue of a coach who is still living AND coaching there?

 

Bullseye. Behold the fallacy of naming something after someone who is still alive.

O.J. Simpson High School ---> Barack H. Obama High School ---> George Washington High School.

153 The money earned from the football program is in fact the foundation for the lies and blinkered morality.

The brick and mortar built upon that foundation is forever corrupted and tainted.

Leaving that stand is tacit acceptance of the past.

154 Paterno was in a unique position of power; had he acted against Sandusky, yes, there would have been a bit of fallout, but we would now remember him as a man of integrity--instead of the coward who aided and betted a serial child rapist by covering up the rapist's actions in the damn football locker room shower.

155 So Papa Joe donated some of his cash to the university library. Big stinking deal. They can rename that. How about just calling it the "Library"?  Bought with blood money, it won't bring him repentance or absolution.

156 People who put up a statue before a coach is gone put it there to suggest they wanted a new coach.

157

Something worse than the death penalty?  What could that be?

SMU got such a raw deal.  Apparently paying Eric Dickerson was FAR worse than covering up child rape.

 

158 Point of order: UPenn is the University of Pennsylvania, an Ivy League college. Penn State is a state university. They're two different institutions. Penn State is what we're talking about here. Although UPenn is probably infested with leftists and should be burned to the ground as well.

159 Posted by: PSUalum at July 22, 2012 01:47 PM (WUcSM) I agree, PSU. Penn State should continue to exist. Their football program should not.

160 lol, comedian Albert Brooks suggested the school leave the statue in place, but have it "look the other way." 

161

One institution fucks up, install a universal ban! Brilliant, how do you feel about gun contol?

 

Assuming you're addressing my comment, I'd respond that a) LOTS of institutions fuck up on athletics, probably including essentially D 1 schools to varying extents, b) the admixture of big bucks and weak oversight (mustn't piss off the alumni) is an invitation to corruption, c) you can still have college athletics without scholarships, and d), the big one ...

 

ATHLETICS ARE NOT THE REASON FOR THE EXISTENCE OF THE GODDAMNED UNIVERSITY IN THE FIRST PLACE.

 

When the NFL, NBA, and MLB start offering courses in calculus, then universities should start offering scholarships. Until then, no.

 

(And btw, I oppose gun control.)

162 Ban athletic scholarships . . . sounds like something Bloomberg would suggest. I agree in principle but am a little squeamish about telling people what they can do with their money. Crazy talk, I know.

Private universities?  Yeah, I agree.  Public universities on the other hand should be banned from that crap.  Their mission is to help provide a body of educated citizens for the benefit of the State which founded them, not to play football. 

163

To those who are complaining about innocent students being punished if a death penalty is imposed, my response is TOUGH SHIT.  If they need to play or coach football that badly they can go some place else.  It isn't exactly rare for innocent people to  bear consequences when justice is meted out.  The cover-up of these child rapes was to protect the FOOTBALL PROGRAM.  That means that the football program has to be suspended for a long time to set an example.

164 And also, I don't propose banning scholarships as a response to Penn State. I've thought that for years.

165 Definitely a case to be made for public universities, but aren't the athletic scholarships almost exclusively privately funded?  I'm asking because I don't know.

166

Private universities? Yeah, I agree. Public universities on the other hand should be banned from that crap.

 

Both should be banned. Most of the operating expenses of universities - private as well as public - come from overheads on Federal grants. That's why the Feds have so much clout re Title IX and such. So in this sense there's really no such thing as a private university, i.e., one spending only its own money. If there were, sure, I agree they should be able to do whatever they want.

167 Just a minute. Paterno paid for the library. Did you know that? Joe Paterno didn't sodomize any kids. Let's keep our focus on the one who did--and the nearly 30-year old assistant assistant coach guy who witnessed it and told his dad--not the police. Reporting this to the police would have been the right thing to do--stopping what the guy was seen doing to the kid, would have been the right thing to do. Let's also realize that accusations--hearsay--can easily ruin a good, innocent person's reputation as well as a whistle blown to stop a pervert. I have often heard of women charging their ex-husbands with child abuse so that visitation rights, etc., are cut off--OR just for revenge. I don't care about football, Penn State, or even Joe Paterno--I care about piling and taking any action just to be seen as doing SOMETHING. I wonder if we should shut down the Batman movie, or maybe the movie theater--or what about arresting the director of the film--or the writers, or the actors. Aren't they to blame for the Aurora thing? Maybe the guy who sold the ticket? Or maybe the idiots who didn't call 911? Come on. Keep things in perspective. Sandusky should hang--and the guy who caught him in the act? Prison. The dad who didn't do anything about what his son told him--same thing: public humiliation. The kids who weren't abused and say they were--prison. The kids who were abused and said nothing--serious psychological help and the money to get it done. Everyone else--let's concentrate on what to do about the farmers who fall in love with their sheep.

168 One institution fucks up, install a universal ban! Brilliant, how do you feel about gun contol?

Penn State was the ugliest example of a wide spread problem.  Plenty of other schools have looked the other way when their athletic departments violate recruiting rules, cover up sexual assaults, work with local police to hide misbehavior, etc.  

Eliminating scholarships wouldn't get rid of the problem entirely, but it would reduce the power of athletic programs at publicly funded universities.

169 Ah yes. I'll bet the University of Colorado knew Holmes was crazy and did nothing--let's sue them and take away their neuroscience program. That'll fix things.

170 How do you feel about Mrs. Sandusky, scotsfury?  She saw those children go down in the basement with her pervert husband and heard them crying.  I'm still waiting for her to be charged with something, she makes me sick.

171

Definitely a case to be made for public universities, but aren't the athletic scholarships almost exclusively privately funded? I'm asking because I don't know.

 

The problem is that money is fungible. If $X comes in here, that's $X that doesn't have to be diverted from somewhere else.

 

But that's beside the point. The point is that athletics is not the mission of the university. Listen to interviews of NFL players, all of whom nominally went to college. They're mostly complete morons, and many seem barely literate (recall O.J. Simpson's note - whoa). Having a bunch of comic book readers wandering around the campus makes a university into a joke.

172 Posted by: scotsfury at July 22, 2012 01:59 PM (W08yv)

They let him order a lot of chemicals and I am curious about their MSDS handling

173 Posted by: scotsfury at July 22, 2012 01:59 PM (W08yv) You pride yourself on saying stupid shit. OK. Got it.

174

Ah yes. I'll bet the University of Colorado knew Holmes was crazy and did nothing--let's sue them and take away their neuroscience program. That'll fix things.

 

That's silly, and you know it.

175
Both should be banned. Most of the operating expenses of universities - private as well as public - come from overheads on Federal grants. That's why the Feds have so much clout re Title IX and such. So in this sense there's really no such thing as a private university, i.e., one spending only its own money. If there were, sure, I agree they should be able to do whatever they want.

I don't like the idea of using Federal money to bully private universities because it's too easy for the left to do it as well.  It's no better than trying to use the commerce clause as a means of regulating everything.  Of course, I'm generally in favor of reducing Federal grant money as much as possible anyways.

176 Posted by: Peaches at July 22, 2012 02:00 PM (kpCLl) That's an excellent point, Peaches. She's a very clear example of the "active non-participant" that so often accompanies the rape of children.

177 Scobface--congratulations. That's just a brilliant comment. Really. I was being sarcastic--possibly that didn't quite get through? I certainly don't accuse others of saying "stupid shit"--a very unproductive comment that leads nowhere in any debate.

178

Full disclosure: I love sports, and played them at the intercollegiate level in college (at a university that didn't have any scholarships). But all of my teammates were legitimate students, majoring in and ultimately graduating in serious subjects. That's the way it should be.

179 scotsfury, I don't think you get why all this happened. To protect the football program and the coaches involved. Period. Football was more important. That's why it needs to feel the pain. Yeah, innocents too. But all they feel is not being able to play, or the fans have to cheer for someone else. Not quite the same as being raped in a Penn State Shower room.

180 Ah yes. I'll bet the University of Colorado knew Holmes was crazy and did nothing--let's sue them and take away their neuroscience program. That'll fix things.

If Holmes made threats that the University knew about and they didn't alert the authorities, then yes they would be partially liable.  A more accurate analogy would be if CU administrators knew that Holmes had killed someone, or several people, but covered it up because he brought in a lot of grant money and prestige for the school.

Although, as a CU grad I believe that it would be entirely possible with those nitwits.

181

I don't like the idea of using Federal money to bully private universities because it's too easy for the left to do it as well.

 

I don't like it either, for the same reason, but this is an instance where I have less of a problem with it. The Left is already bullying universities to do all kinds of stupid crap (Title IX, affirmative action, etc.); at least this one would be constructive.

182 Posted by: Roger at July 22, 2012 02:01 PM (TOVGS)

Are you competing with scotsfury?

183 Ha ha! I still have my Oscar! Now excuse me while I sodomize another child in memory of the great Joe Paterno!

184 They should have used a back hoe to pick it up and smash it to bits
then load the bits onto a truck and then cart them to the smelter.
No fences, no blinds, boo freeking hoo.

Same (figuratively) with the board of trustees.

185 What the NCAA may do is certainly interesting, but I want to know what the officials of the state of Pennsylvania -- legislature, governor, etc -- are going to do. 

Sadly, my guess is they are all hoping for something sufficiently draconian from the NCAA that they won't have to lift a finger -- "haven't they suffered enough?" we'll hear after the NCAA's announcement.

Of course, after the lawsuits there may not be much left of PSU.

186

Posted by: mare at July 22, 2012 02:05 PM (A98Xu)

 

Well said, mare.

187 Really. I was being sarcastic--possibly that didn't quite get through? If I misinterpreted your comment, then I apologize.

188 Posted by: Jay Guevara at July 22, 2012 02:07 PM (tAwVj)

And football programs are the benefits of a huge amount of direct and indirect tax relief because of the non-profit status of the universities. They are not independent entities, and have no right to claim freedom from government interference.

189 How do you feel about Mrs. Sandusky, scotsfury? She saw those children go down in the basement with her pervert husband and heard them crying. I'm still waiting for her to be charged with something, she makes me sick.

Posted by: Peaches at July 22, 2012 02:00 PM (kpCLl)

Amen, Peaches.

190 Roger, I agree with your comment. We need to ban the ability to order firearms/ammo through the mail order business. I was being sarcastic about the complete overreaction to terrible crimes--directing hate at people who have nothing really to do with the crime. Remember Jared Loughner incident? Everyone was pointing fingers at Sarah Palin, for god's sake. For those who jump on me about this? My own son was sexually abused when he was 7--by a summer camp coach--age 15. Yes, I found out. Yes, I did something about it. Yes, my boy is fine now--and I admit that when I found out that the 15 year old had been abused by an uncle, I had mixed feelings somewhere between revenge and pity. Personally, I would have de-sexed the kid permanently (and the uncle, too), if I had the ability to do so.

191 The death penalty is the least that ought to be done.  I would suggest a permanent ban from NCAA football, but it sounds like the NCAA wants to preserve the program...cough/money/cough.  Hopefully, the civil suits will bankrupt the program.

192 Communal punishment of the innocent players, coaches who will have their lives turned upside down ithe punishment is as bad as feared ) might give emotional succor to the "get 'em all!" crowd but does nothing to punish the perpetrators or help the victims. It's inevitable and maybe even necessary, but that doesn't mean it isn't lazy and false justice that people will be celebrating.

193

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 22, 2012 02:10 PM (nEUpB)

 

Yep, absolutely. In a very real sense there are no private universities.

194 I think Ms Sandusky should be given a lie detector test, Peaches. I agree--it makes me sick. I completely agree. But, if you are like me--who can be blindsided by people you have trusted--you may have more sympathy. I can't imagine that she knew--but once she did--even if it is just recently--she should NOT support him in any way at all. In fact, she should be madder than we are. I would have done a John Wayne Bobbitt on the guy--while he was wide awake.

195

Communal punishment of the innocent players, coaches who will have their lives turned upside down

 

Look on the bright side. The players can drop the pretense that they're college students - which they're not - and they and the coaches can go get real jobs.

196 Lincolntf--completely agree with your rational comment.

197 Posted by: Jay Guevara at July 22, 2012 02:01 PM (tAwVj)

Mens sana in corpore sano.

But most universities have lost sight of that, and treat sports as a vehicle for cash generation; either directly through ticket sales, TV, etc., or through alumni donations.

Football and basketball should be detached from the major college athletic system and made into for-profit farm teams for the professional leagues. The universities can reap the profit, and those seats in sociology 101 can be used by slightly less brain-dead undergraduates.

198 Come on, people.  You're making yourselves look like morons.  And NOT in a GOOD way.

University of Pennsylvania (UPenn) is in Philadelphia.  Wharton is a graduate school of business and part of UPenn.  Far eastern end of the state.  Ivy League (for what that's worth).  Private college (not state-affiliated).

Pennsylvania State University (Penn State, PSU) is in State College, Pa.  Northern middle part of the state, with multiple branches all over the state (Behrend campus, Johnstown campus, Middletown campus, to name a few.  A public state-related university.  NOT Ivy League (also, who cares.)

I have quite a few relatives that graduated from PSU (I went elsewhere).  They have always been a little too reverential of JoePa and the almighty "We are Penn State" mantra.  This travesty and subsequent coverup has made me sick, and I agree with the person who said the following:

"They should melt down the statue and make sidewalk tiles out of it, leading to the empty pedestal where the statue used to be. They could call it The Joe Paterno Walk Of Shame."

Shame on ALL of them for their blind pursuit of football-uber-alles.

199

Communal punishment of the innocent players, coaches who will have their lives turned upside down

 

Note also that one could make same argument against cutting the government payroll. And I would make the same response.

200 Yeah ;ay, they're all NFL prospects who never attend class and drive Lamborghinis.

201 "We need to ban the ability to order firearms/ammo through the mail order business. "

Posted by: scotsfury at July 22, 2012 02:10 PM (W08yv)

You are unwilling to punish PSU football and Joe Paterno, yet you are happy to punish the tens of millions of law-abiding gun owners for the behavior of a few lunatics?

 

202 There are so many bad guys in this story. One of those bad guys seems to be getting a free pass. That guy is Mike McQueary. This filthy sonofabitch saw a little boy being raped, and his response was to tiptoe away, drive home, and "call his Daddy." Filthy fucking motherfucker.

203 Posted by: scotsfury at July 22, 2012 02:10 PM (W08yv)

It is a rough thing to track down and I can only imagine the mixed reactions you felt.  I hope life continues going in the right direction for your boy.

204 Kathy in MD--right on. I couldn't believe people were saying UPenn. It just goes to show, doesn't it?

205

Football and basketball should be detached from the major college athletic system and made into for-profit farm teams for the professional leagues. The universities can reap the profit, and those seats in sociology 101 can be used by slightly less brain-dead undergraduates.

 

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 22, 2012 02:16 PM (nEUpB)

 

Another bullseye for you, Charlie. Put football and basketball on the same basis as baseball. Let the athletes focus on athletics, full time, and drop the pretense that they're doing anything else.

 

It would be better for all concerned, and remove the stink coming off of college athletics. Notice how there's almost never a scandal involving baseball, volleyball, swimming, etc.? Gotta be a good reason for that.

206

Yeah ;ay, they're all NFL prospects who never attend class and drive Lamborghinis.

 

At the D 1 level they probably think/hope that they're NFL prospects. And there's more to "attending class" than warming a seat. Besides which, what is the class they're attending? One in differential equations, or in "communication," sociology, or that perennial favorite, physical education?

 

Last, how many actually graduate from college, even with a degree in a joke subject?

207 One of those bad guys seems to be getting a free pass. That guy is Mike McQueary.

Been wondering about that myself.  After he told his dad and Paterno, he just decided to shut his piehole? 

208 Posted by: Jay Guevara at July 22, 2012 02:21 PM (tAwVj)

I have first-hand knowledge of the travesty of the "student-athlete." Yet during my undergraduate days I also knew successful swimmers and water polo players. They were true student-athletes, whose college experience was enhanced, not supplanted by athletics.

But, as we both know; it will never happen, at least for the foreseeable future.

209 Posted by: Jay Guevara at July 22, 2012 02:17 PM (tAwVj)

+1000

The fallout from closing down PSU football is trivial in comparison to the good it will do, and the message it will send.

210 Scobface--correct. Roger--my boy is now 33, married with two sons--he is fine but he doesn't let his kids join the scouts, go to summer camp or serve as altar boys. Every once in a while we talk about what happened to him when the news like this surfaces--and when his first son was born, I will never forget what he did. He leaned in and kissed me and commented (I am paraphrasing) "I have learned that in life pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional. I choose to use what I have learned from pain and go on." He went back for counseling, he told me, when the priest scandal hit the papers because (he told me)--it felt like post traumatic stress syndrome.

211 Charlie--the good it will do? Nothing stops pedophiles. Nothing stops prisoners from raping weaker prisoners. What would you do about that?

212

But, as we both know; it will never happen, at least for the foreseeable future.

 

Yep, more is the pity. Universities plus big-time athletics constitute an invitation to abuse, much like government plus public sector unions. The only question is how bad the abuse will be.

213 Yeah, scotsfury.  I always got a chuckle about the knuckleheads who applied to Miami University, and then realized when they got accepted, that it was in F'N OHIO.  Ha!

214 Schools like BC, Notre Dame and the service Academies aren't squeaky clean (no human endeavor is) but they bring in 90% + graduation rates pretty regularly. Other schools are lucky to crack 30%. I don't see any rationale for a universal ban.

215 Why do we need college athletics at all? My sister used to teach at OU--football mad. She was, too. I think it's silly. In fact, I think we pay way way too much attention to sports and sports figures generally. The Olympics? Hear about all the condoms being passed out FREE? Gee where is that line-item in the budget? I wonder if being an AMATEUR keeps you so poor you can't afford a pack of Trojans.

216 Posted by: Scobface at July 22, 2012 02:20 PM (IoNBC)

McQueary, I can't even begin to describe what I think of him.  Couldn't stand his arrogance and puffed upness from years gone by.

His dad was a heavy political player in PSU politics.  There is more that needs to be investigated.  And Freeh pisses me off for not looking; but he was paid by trustees and somehow they didn't get hardly a mention in his report.  Now NCAA opts Freeh's report instead of investigating for themselves. *spit*

217 Kathy--or Oklahoma!

218

Schools like BC, Notre Dame and the service Academies aren't squeaky clean (no human endeavor is) but they bring in 90% + graduation rates pretty regularly.

 

Omitting the service academies, for obvious reasons, I'm unimpressed with schools reporting apparently high graduation rates. Seriously, how hard is that to game? That's even easier than electing one of them to be the president of the law review.

219 Okay, Jay, you made me smile--at that last line about the law review.

220 I'm signing off, but thanks for the debate. We should all keep it civil and productive--after all, here at Ace HQ, hopefully, we want to share ideas, not trade insults.

221 Posted by: scotsfury at July 22, 2012 02:30 PM (W08yv)

It will show the country that covering up the horror of child rape in the interest of a football program isn't a good idea.

222

Why do we need college athletics at all? 

 

Prepend "big-time" to that, and I agree that we don't. I think athletics generally, and including intercollegiate athletics, are good for a university and its students, if conducted properly. By that I mean that intercollegiate teams are like the next step above intramural teams, and are essentially an all-star team from the intramurals, and the players are honest-to-God student-athletes. The Ivy League (where college athletics were born) exemplifies this approach, and I suspect the service academies come close. 

223 Really Jay, graduation rates don't interest you when your entire latter point was about graduation rates? Of course it's a whole scam to fool you Jay, they just make the numbers up.

224 Whoa! The whole State of PA is reeling from this , not to mention students,players,alumni and fans ! Pray for healing. To violate the trusted position Sandusky put himself in is the lowest of the low. No words or punishment can ever undo his deceitful deranged actions.

225 I don't know why, but I want to say this again: Mike McQueary is a filthy, evil motherfucker. He saw, with his own eyes, a little boy being forcibly fucked up the ass. He did nothing. Nothing. Mike McQueary's evil is simply unimaginable to me.

226

Really Jay, graduation rates don't interest you when your entire latter point was about graduation rates? Of course it's a whole scam to fool you Jay, they just make the numbers up.

 

Graduation rates used to be notoriously low, until the NCAA started holding universities' feet to the fire. As I said, how hard is it to game graduation figures if, thanks to the NCAA, you have a very good reason to do so?

 

Soft courses, and a little discreet pressure on those faculty who aren't already bending over backwards to pass students, should do the job.

227 I agree, Scobface.  According to wikipedia, they put him on indefinite paid leave, says nothing about that ending.  So, he is still on the Penn State payroll??  Can that possibly be true?

228 Posted by: scotsfury at July 22, 2012 02:28 PM (W08yv)

Wow, incredible strength of spirit!  With that he is armed to help many people.

My folks never had us join or participate in such either.  They were very firm on getting home every day.  I remember my mom speaking through her embarrassment on certain subjects and knew from that how serious she was and we could tell her if we observed a person we didn't want to be around we didn't go there anymore.

229

Wealthy alumnus: "Yes, a number of us are seriously considering making a substantial contribution to the university."

 

University president: "That's great!"

 

Wealthy alumnus: "Changing subjects, how about that star running back? Isn't he something? We sure hope he is eligible to play this weekend."

 

University president: "Oh, is there a problem?"

 

Wealthy alumnus: "Well, there are rumors that he's struggling a bit in Professor Blogg's course 'Sociology of Comic Books,' but I'm sure everything will work out."

 

University president: "Oh, I'm sure it will."

 

Wealthy alumnus: "Bloggs is a good prof, by all accounts. I hear he's coming up for tenure, and I'd hate for anything to go wrong."

230 They are leaving his name on the library to remind all students to be quiet.

231 Posted by: scotsfury at July 22, 2012 02:33 PM (W08yv)


One school really fucked up and deserves whatever is coming is not an excuse to ban any-fucking-thing. You sound like the chattering Lib fucks who want to ban guns in the wake of Aurora. College athletics are some of the most purest forms of sport anywhere. I'd take NCAA basketball over anything the NBA does because at least the college basketball kids fucking try all the time.

232 How come you didn't drag his statue through the streets and slap it with your sandals guys? I mean whats a little WMD compared to pederasty?

233 52 Never understood why some people lose all sense of sanity over fucking college sports. Posted by: nickless at July 22, 2012 12:49 PM (MMC8r) +1. I would love for someone to explain to me why, at the beginning of every year, ordinarily rational people lose their shit over college basketball and start yapping non-stop about their fucking "brackets", including our moronic President. I don't get it. And the endless football bowl games -- again, is there a purpose? A need?

234 Samuel Adams--I was KIDDING. KIDDING.

235 F#$%k you guys.  Paterno was a great coach and a great man.  He ranks up there with the likes of Lonbardi and, and, and ..... well that's it.  One of the top two football coaches in history.  History folks.  What he did for the game of football, Penn State and the state of Pennsylvania is legion and you all want to erase the man from our memory.  For what?  Failing to investigate what were at the time unsubstantiated rumors of misconduct (grave misconduct no doubt) by one of his staff?  Should he have investigated?  YES.  Should he have taken action? YES. Should he have not turned a blind eye to this scandal? YES.  History is filled with scumbags that are revered in this country.  Jessie James comes to mind and he was a robber and murderer. 

Were he still alive coach Paterno should lose his job.   He should suffer the derision of the comunity but he committed no crime but piss poor judgement and bad management.  Sandusky should and will rot in hell.

You holier than thou sheep that feel the need to show the world how righteous you are by following this "blot Paterno from the history books" strategy can shove it.  There were a lot of failures of morality and judgement in this tragedy and singling out coach Paterno is wrong.  He is simply the highest profile scapegoat. 

F#$%k all of you and the sanctimonious high horse you rode in on. 

236 "Paterno's name will remain on the library? These people are tone deaf." It will only stay until the next million-dollar library gift... at which time it will be named after the donor,

237 removed the statue with a tank and a rope Posted by: TJexcite at July 22, 2012 12:42 PM (3qeX5) Feck somebody beat me too it. I guess I have to avoid my entire Sunday morning-afternoon routine if I'm going to win the internetz from AoSHQ

238 Who the hell is doing Drudge on weekends now?  Because that "statue torn down" shit is gettin' on my nerves.  The statue was NOT "torn down" (which inspires memories of the Saddam Hussein statue being TORN down).  The shit was lovingly removed to a safe place while they figure out how to rehabilitate that asshole's image.  Drudge needs to be accurate and so many times, he is not.  It's not helpful.

239 Posted by: NotaSheep at July 22, 2012 03:54 PM

Yeah, you're right. A Great Man. As head of the program, it was not his responsibility. Other people tarnished his image.

/sarc

240 NotASheep, why do you hold Paterno in such high esteem?  What did he ever do for you?  Provide college football for you to watch?  Is that really of such high value to you?

241

Joe Paterno and the school admins covered up evil in the name of the almighty dollar.

F them and the enablers who still cover up and spin for them.

242 Paterno was a great coach and a great man. He ranks up there with the likes of Lonbardi and, and, and ..... well that's it. One of the top two football coaches in history. History folks. What he did for the game of football, Penn State and the state of Pennsylvania is legion and you all want to erase the man from our memory. For what?

Posted by: NotaSheep at July 22, 2012 03:54 PM

==========================================================

You're right.  Like Lombardi he was a football coach.  That's it, nothing more.  He gave to the same university that paid him.  Big deal, so do lots of people.  He did nothing for PA that lots of other people did, maybe less, and I live here.  He did no more for football than many other coaches.  He got paid very very well to do it.  Oh, and you're the one who's sanctimonious. 

243 Posted by: Arms Merchant at July 22, 2012 04:31 PM

You miss the point Merchant.  I'm not suggesting that he be absolved of responsibility.  He was the boss.  It happened under his watch.  He is responsible.  Nothing I said in my post suggests otherwise. 

Erasing a 46 year legacy of excellence for a single screw up is wrong and those who promote it sound a little holier than thou.

Ever heard the phrase "But for the grace of God go I"?

244 "...for a single screw up" ....I don't think that means what you think it means. A single screw up is buying the margarita mix when your wife expressly asked for the COSMO mix. Paterno's "screw up" allowed several more years of boys being raped.

245 "Sheep" usually refers to individuals who group think on a subject without using reason or common sense. Generally emotion is involved and it turns out poorly. Being part of the Paterno/Penn State apologists qualifies for the term "sheep."

246 Ever heard of the phrase, "evil happens when good men do nothing?"

247 What anybody wailing about “the poor students” being punished by the Death Penalty, and made to pay for something they didn’t do, fail to realize is that the inevitable civil judgments and settlements to come will be paid with tuition and alumni donations, money that would have gone to the students but now go to victims and lawyers. But since THAT also punishes students that had nothing to do with the abuse, I guess we can’t do THAT either. Right?

248 Posted by: Quint&Jessel, Sea of Azof, Bly, UK at July 22, 2012 04:33 PM

I hold Joe Paterno in no greater esteem than any other paragon of excellence in our country. 

What torques my jaw is when people want to trash our symbols of American excellence.  Yea, Joe Paterno failed in this instance, but to erase his legacy is wrong.

People who want to rewrite history to fit their own personal ideology piss me off.  This liberal "Americans and our heroes are Sh*t" narrative is wrong.

Kennedy was a great president but we can't revere him because he was a womanizer.

Americans didn't build a great country because we displaced the Native Americans. 

Pete Rose isn't one of the greatest baseball players in history because he gambled on the game.

American exceptionalism is non-existent because "You didn't built that".

The list goes on.

249 "...single screw up..."

Posted by: NotaSheep at July 22, 2012 04:52 PM (nojhZ)

You are a fool.

Joe Paterno woke up every day for at least 14 years and decided to continue to protect his football program rather than do something...anything...about children being raped by one of his trusted assistants.

That is more than one screw-up. That is a profoundly flawed world view and a profoundly flawed life.

250 Posted by: mare at July 22, 2012 05:05 PM (A98Xu)

Agreed, and well said.

251 NotaSheep, you make no sense at all.  "Amercan exceptionalism" exists and there are plenty of examples.  Joe Paterno waas not one of them.  He was just another successful college coach, and there are plenty of them.  You need to get your priorites straightened out, sports are nice but they are certainly not in  the category of great American exceptionalism.  And I speak as someone who has many family members who played college football.

252 Posted by: mare at July 22, 2012 05:06 PM

The sheep to which I refer are those that are proposing destroying a man's 46 year legacy for a single wrong doing.  Sounds like just another PC bandwagon to me. 

Yes, I agree it was major and innocent kids were hurt because of his inaction.  I'm not suggesting that it was in any way trivial but to erase a man's legacy for a single screw up is wrong.

253 Posted by: Deanna at July 22, 2012 05:24 PM

Yea ..... and John Glenn was just a navy pilot.

254

A SINGLE wrongdoing?  Look at the counts of "guilty" against Sandusky.  Think about the boy raped in PSU's football locker room shower in 2001, Paterno's knowledge of same, and the fact that Sandusky's rapes of boys went unstopped until 2011.  That 10-year span is more than a "single" wrongdoing.

 

255 Guys, Guys ..... I get it!

What he did was BAD!  Horrific.  Unforgivable even,  but do you really want to erase the man's 46 year legacy from history?

256

As someone who lives and works in State College and has been privy to much more information than most, i find it concerning that everyone is so quick to destroy an entire University and its town because of one evil man who lied and manipulated everyone.  Joe Paterno did not do enough, obviously, but when the PA state DA and the police walked away from this case originally, he still cut all ties with Sandusky and made it known to University officials.

In hindsight, i guess he could have spent the last 10 years on a crusade against Sandusky but why is the President of Penn State never or rarely mentioned in this discussions. He was the one with the power over what happened at the University.  

Now they are talking about punishing a group of kids that did nothing wrong.  The NCAA, whose job it is to level the playing field in athletics is now going playing moral authority in a situation where they are more worried about their reputations, and how they look, then real justice. 

If Penn State football is ruined forever, im sure plenty of you will cheer.  Meanwhile, those of us who have rely on those 7 Saturdays every fall for a large part of our livlihood, and who, like the kids on the team, have never done anything wrong, may lose everything we have built here.

Louis Freeh's report contradicts the criminal case evidence in important ways, yet it is being taken as gospel by many. 

I just feel like some are piling on the wrong people, and allowing the actions of one evil man, and the negligence of University officials to destroy even more lives.  Its giving even more power to the actions of Sandusky when lives are destroyed that never even came into contact with the man.

I hope you all understand this isnt about the defense of Joe Paterno, but the feeling that he has become a scape goat and a convienent focus which may allow many to forget about the bigger picture of a town, and a group of college students who are wholely innocent, yet the ones being punished.

 

257 Notasheep,

Yes. He's a goddamned child rape enabling creep. Fuck him. Fuck his apologists. Fuck the entire diseased Penn State culture that put football and their cult of personality above the welfare of a bunch of innocent kids.

Burn the program to the ground, then salt the earth.

258 Have you read the report, AJ? Because it really sounds like you aren't familiar with the main points raised. The problems at PSU were systemic. They weren't limited to athletics. They weren't limited to a few bad administrators. They weren't even limited to a bad board member. What shocked me was the involvement of the Board chair (and a couple of board members). Then I read the chair's background and it became clear. The guy was a Paterno booster. He spent his whole career at PSU. He had none of the broader perspective you'd expect of a board chair. The whole culture there was broken. They need to fix it and that is going to take facing the reality of the evil that was permitted to occur on that campus. My husband and I have professional colleagues at PSU (in the development office). Paterno's reputation for being single-minded and ruthless about *his* football program was legendary. He used his dying breath to pen a self-serving op ed rather than to try to make amends to the victims. Screw him and frankly screw his family for being more concerned about Paterno's reputation than they are about the kids whose lives were ruined.

259 Yea ..... and John Glenn was just a navy pilot.

Posted by: NotaSheep at July 22, 2012 05:44 PM

=============================================================

The mere fact that you would compare John Glenn to Paterno speaks volumes.  Sad that people elevate a coach or athlete to that level.  And the last I knew John Glenn didn't have children under his care and have to say..."I should have done more." 

260 Posted by: Warden at July 22, 2012 06:18 PM

"Burn the program to the ground, then salt the earth."

Wow dude.  The "program" as it exists today was not to blame here.  Just one, actually many, misguided individuals that placed that past program above a moral good.  You would trash the future of Penn State football for the failures of people who are not even there anymore?

Sounds a little vindicive to me. 

You must be a Woman's Studies major ...... or a Pitt fan.

261 Joe Paterno did not do enough, obviously,

Posted by: AJ at July 22, 2012 06:18 PM (5esZK)

Sorry AJ, but you should have stopped there. 

As for the players and all, again sorry but plenty of schools and programs have been punished for far less.   It is the way it is and what we expect of those to whom we entrust our childre n.

262 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

263

The only way to get it through some thick-skulled idiots' heads is to slam a system that enabled a child rapist damn hard.  If they won't use a moral compass to stop child abuse, maybe the reality of harsh punishment may encourage someone to pick up a damn phone and call a cop should a child rapist rape a child somewhere again.

 

And apparently even that won't stop some people from intentionally diminishing the crime to, "What about my FOOTBALL games???  What about that, huh?"

264 Posted by: Deanna at July 22, 2012 06:49 PM

I celebrate excellence and exceptionalism Deanna.  People who are the best at what ever they do.  I celebrate greatness.  Joe Paterno was a great man as is John Glen, Michael Jordan, Pablo Picasso, Mother Teresa, Bill Gates, Alexander, Luciano Pavarotti, Michael Phelps, and Jimmy Hendrix .  All of these people were or are the best at what they do and Joe Paterno was arguably the best at what he did. 

Coaching football may be a trivial endeavor but that doesn't matter.  It's excellence that matters, in what ever you do. 

265 Hey NotaSheep, here's what you're not getting... That Paterno legacy you keep referring to?  It's not football anymore.  His enduring legacy is now covering up for child rapist and allowing him to continue his reprehensible and evil behavior.

They don't build statues for that.

266 It's excellence in CHARACTER that matters. 

267 Posted by: JohnE. at July 22, 2012 08:12 PM

So you subscribe to the old "You build a thousand bridges ...... "
philosophy?

268 So you subscribe to the old "You build a thousand bridges ...... "
philosophy?

Not normally, but see, child rape.  Sort of a big deal.

269 Any penalty that allows PSU football to exist in any way for the next 3 to 4 years minimum is not a penalty. I couldn't care less about lost revenue -- that should be a given, as not having a football program would logically result in not having any football revenue.

270 Eat a dick, notasheep. What you and every other nuthugging apologist here fail to acknowledge is that the Penn State culture is what produced this result.

It took literally dozens of people looking the other way ... covering up ... not doing the right thing for this to go on for so long.

So fuck the program. You know why? Because football doesn't fucking matter when weighed against the ruined lives of 20 or so boys who had their lives permanently damaged BY GETTING FUCKED IN THE ASS BY A PENN STATE COACH.

This predator used the access and credibility provided by Penn State to stalk and violate children.

Wymyn's studies major? That's a funny insult coming from a fucking worm like you. You're not a man. You're part of the problem. Shove it, you jock sniffing little bitch.

271 Not a Sheep and the others who are putting Paterno and the football program in front of the legality and ethics of the situation are PRIME examples of why the entire football program, if not Penn State itself, need to be severely punished.  It's the only thing that will get around the huge blinders they are wearing.

272 And please stop with the "we can't punish the innocent students" bullshit. Would you not punish a child's parents of crimes because it would leave that child without his parents? There are plenty of D-1 schools who would be happy to take the PSU players. They should be the least of our worries.

273 Coaching football may be a trivial endeavor but that doesn't matter. It's excellence that matters, in what ever you do.

Posted by: NotaSheep at July 22, 2012 07:50 PM

===========================================================

NotaSheep, you just don't get it.  Whether Paterno achieved your ideal of excellence in coaching, debatable to me,  doesn't matter any more.  In order to achieve that he sacrificed his moral responsibilties, you cannot do that and proclaim excellence.  Excellence requires more than just performance, it requires character.  So those who thought Paterno was a great man now know what he really was, and it wasn't great.  No matter how many games his teams won it can never ever make up for his failure to, as he said, enough.

274 I'm at the National Matches at Camp Perry. There are about a dozen junior rifle teams from Pennsylvania here, plus the traditional teams. Pennsylvanians are some shootin' fools. They turn out as many top collegiate NCAA rifle scholarship candidates as any other state, maybe the most of any.

And turn them out they do, because not one college in the state has an NCAA rifle program. Carnegie-Mellon used to, but it's long gone. They send those great athletes to Akron, WVU, Kentucky, Ohio State, Ole Miss, TCU, Annapolis, Nevada, Alaska...you get the idea. And a lot of them never come back.

They're about to have a big, empty stadium. Think there'd be room for a 10-lane practice range anywhere in there? There is no corruption in the sport of rifle. 

275 I get heavy handed and severe sanctions against the school. I sort of get that some of the wins over the last two decades could be directly attributed to the coaching of the professional panderer formerly known as 'joe pat'.

How do you justify standing on the throat of EVERY YOUNG athlete that had the miss fortune to choose penn state last year? They will be paying for the stigma in shame and money. They had nothing to do with it.

276 In order to achieve that he sacrificed his moral responsibilties, you cannot do that and proclaim excellence.

Best argument yet Deanna.  Maybe I'll have to rethink my "excellence" statement.  But no one can deny that he achieved great things in his carrier not withstanding his reprehensible inaction regarding Sandusky. 

I just don't want those great achievements to be lost.

277 I could go for the Paterno-Obama Library. Saddling kids with $5trillion is child abuse.

278

I live in Lancaster, PA. The lengths Penn State fans and local sports reporters will go to make excuses for the college while claiming to be *not* making excuses is pathetic...and it goes to show how many people care more about a fucking sports team than basic human decency. 

To hell with them.  I hope Penn State's football program gets destroyed.  The big $$$ they get for it was the cause of the corruption, and the only punishment that fits would be to take it away.

279 "152 UPenn is the redheaded stepchild of the Ivy League, much like Olbermann's cow college. Posted by: Fritz at July 22, 2012 01:44 PM (0ZJ5N)" Yeah Wharton is a huge embarrassment to have on your resume. My husband only had 10 job offers before he graduated, I know they were small organizations like the CIA and the Treasury Department, but that's what happens when you go to a lessor Ivy. And Cornell's cow college, I mean seriously, who needs agriculture these days? Who cares if they're one of the three best in the country for vetanary medicine (New Bolton at U Penn is another), but hey, they can't all have such rekwoned professors as Henry Gates and Peter Singer.

280 The photo makes it look like Bronze Paterno is being renditioned to Kazakhstan for a little Q and A in the Agency's quiz room.