June 30, 2012

Randy Barnett Says This; John Yoo Says That
— rdbrewer

Philip Klein at the Washington Examiner interviewed Randy Barnett, "the legal architect behind challenges to the health care law." Barnett says that Congress is unlikely to use the expanded power and that it's lame; it's too flimsy to survive. He points out that a future (conservative) court could use the "built-in tripwires" to fix the expanded tax power.

He continued, “This is big. And it’s only the stinging disappointment of not being able to take down Obamacare that conceals how big this was. Every one of our arguments got accepted by five justices. Every one.”

. . .

Barnett criticized RobertsÂ’ reasoning in upholding the mandate on taxing grounds, but said it was too flimsy to survive as constitutional doctrine.

“It’s lame,” he said. “The reasoning is transparently lame, and that doesn’t hurt, that helps. Transparently lame reasoning doesn’t stand the test of time. What will stand the test of time is everything he had to say about the Commerce Clause and Necessary and Proper Clause, because that was hard-edged. And that had five votes in support of it.”

. . .

“That is an expansion of the use of the tax power beyond where it’s gone before,” Barnett said. “(Roberts) claimed it wasn’t, that’s lame too. It’s an expansion. It’s just an expansion that Congress will not make use of in the near future and a future court can fix and so what’s necessary now is political action to ensure that that’s not a problem.”

He explained, “If we do change the legal culture, even in the slightest, and we do get new justices on the Court, they are not going to have any problem with this precedent on the tax power. It was lame, it was (Roberts’) own opinion, it built in trip wires that could easily be used in the future by a court that cared.

John Yoo at the Wall Street Journal writes about Chief Justice Roberts "and his apologists." Yoo says no federal law is put in jeopardy by this ruling and that it puts in place a road map for the next great federal expansion. He also points out that a future liberal court would simply ignore Roberts' Commerce Clause ruling.

Conservatives are scrambling to salvage something from the decision of their once-great judicial hero. Some hope Sebelius covertly represents a "substantial victory," in the words of conservative columnist George Will.

. . .

The outer limit on the Commerce Clause in Sebelius does not put any other federal law in jeopardy and is undermined by its ruling on the tax power (discussed below). The limits on congressional coercion in the case of Medicaid may apply only because the amount of federal funds at risk in that program's expansion—more than 20% of most state budgets—was so great. If Congress threatens to cut off 5%-10% to force states to obey future federal mandates, will the court strike that down too? Doubtful.

Worse still, Justice Roberts's opinion provides a constitutional road map for architects of the next great expansion of the welfare state. Congress may not be able to directly force us to buy electric cars, eat organic kale, or replace oil heaters with solar panels. But if it enforces the mandates with a financial penalty then suddenly, thanks to Justice Roberts's tortured reasoning in Sebelius, the mandate is transformed into a constitutional exercise of Congress's power to tax.

. . .

Given the advancing age of several of the justices, an Obama second term may see the appointment of up to three new Supreme Court members. A new, solidified liberal majority will easily discard Sebelius's limits on the Commerce Clause and expand the taxing power even further.

Much more at both links.

I think the difference here is that Barnett is arguing best case scenario. He relies a little too much on hope. Too much "if." Too much belief Congress will view the expanded tax power as radioactive. I'm not so sure they will. And when Congress uses the expanded tax power, it'll be small. Just a little here and there. That's all. Hey, no worries, taxpayer. Trust us. But, of course, that will grow and never go away.

Yoo is more practical. Roberts sacrificed too much for political reasons, "a little peace and quiet from attacks during a presidential election year." And I would add cocktail party reasons. Because what can be better than having Laurence Tribe slap you on the back and bathe you in warm admiration in front of everyone at the backyard party just before offering you a second helping of his famous grilled herbed bell peppers?

Both opinions rely on the future composition of the court, and Yoo points out the necessity for the next president to be very careful. Hopefully Mitt Romney has an adviser who sees the importance of avoiding another moderate. Now there has to be another constitutional conservative.

Like I said, too much "if."

Follow me on Twitter.

Posted by: rdbrewer at 02:16 PM | Comments (303)
Post contains 838 words, total size 5 kb.

1 Yoo is right, Barnette is whistling past the graveyard.

Posted by: Vic at June 30, 2012 02:18 PM (YdQQY)

2 anyone who thinks we got anything good out of that POS ruling is either a liar or an idiot.

Posted by: Vic at June 30, 2012 02:19 PM (YdQQY)

3 And here I was, hoping for a movie thread...

Posted by: HH at June 30, 2012 02:19 PM (v+ExF)

4 Such weighty hypotheticals! Hope I don't tip over.

Posted by: Island of Malta at June 30, 2012 02:20 PM (OOehk)

5 Yoo who?

Posted by: wheatie at June 30, 2012 02:21 PM (MbB0O)

6

"Hopefully Mitt Romney has an adviser who sees the importance of avoiding another moderate. Now there has to be another constitutional conservative."

 

There is the sorry ass status of the Republican party, our hopes is that at least one person that our nominee will pick to help him is a conservative, since we know for sure if it was up to Romneycare we would get his liberal court picks that he gave Massachusetts.

 

Let me rephrase that:  HOPEFULLY, THE DELEGATES AT THE NATIONAL CONVENTION WILL SEE THE WRITING ON THE WALL AND DUMP ROMNEY BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.

Posted by: doug at June 30, 2012 02:21 PM (gUGI6)

7 Wasn't me....it was Yoo.

Posted by: wheatie at June 30, 2012 02:21 PM (MbB0O)

8 An Obama second term.......


Hahahahaha, we are already on the verge of total collapse.  Unless Republicans grow some balls we will be gone whether he gets a second term or not.

If he gets a second term that just guarantees it.

Posted by: Vic at June 30, 2012 02:21 PM (YdQQY)

9 Yep, Yoo is right. We are fucked.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 30, 2012 02:22 PM (ZPrif)

10

 

Et tu, Yoo?

Posted by: The Dread Justice Roberts at June 30, 2012 02:23 PM (MbB0O)

11 " And I would add cocktail party reasons. Because what can be better than having Laurence Tribe slap you on the back and bathe you in warm admiration in front of everyone just before offering you a second helping of his famous herbed and grilled bell peppers"

The way people talk about these cocktail parties' hold over people in DC, they must be serving crack.

You'd think some enterprising type like Grover Norquist would just create a series of cocktail parties for those who've been uninvited to the regular cocktail parties.

Posted by: BS Inc. at June 30, 2012 02:23 PM (P2Ufm)

12 I still say the only thing that will save us is an Article V convention.

Posted by: Vic at June 30, 2012 02:24 PM (YdQQY)

13 After deep consideration, I believe that my response to all this is Help us SMOD, you're our only hope. 

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at June 30, 2012 02:24 PM (Gk3SS)

14 Given the powers that be in the Republican Party, we are indeed fucked. There's nothing we can do about it.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 02:25 PM (IoNBC)

15

As an old business partner used to say when things like this happened, and everyone had momentarily run out of cuss words or breath...

;;;;;; ;;;;;;

So...what are you going to do?

Posted by: Meremortal at June 30, 2012 02:26 PM (Usk3+)

16

16

I'm still wondering if a mass exodus to the Libertarian party might be a good thing should Obama be reelected, or perhaps the creation of a Constitutionalist party as a replacement for the beltway infested GOP.

Or maybe we are just fucked in any case.

 

Posted by: Reggie1971 at June 30, 2012 02:28 PM (dnflv)

17 I still say the only thing that will save us is an Article V convention. Would it, though? I mean, who would be drafting the amendments? Wouldn't it be our current crop of lawyers raised on post-modernist legal philosophy? And I have to think Jessie Jackson and all the other TV hogs would get involved. Our society itself has become corrupt. A good tree brings forth good fruit and a bad tree brings forth bad fruit.

Posted by: rfichoke at June 30, 2012 02:28 PM (Y1c/9)

18 Even if every thing Barnett hopes comes to pass, if we ever get a for real liberal majority court, they will sweep it all away. They respect no precedent they can't use to forward what ever agenda they need to advance. They don't need no stink'n constitution.

Posted by: Aruges at June 30, 2012 02:29 PM (NqY9l)

19 Recall that each State gets only one vote.  There are more Red States than there are Blue States.

Posted by: Vic at June 30, 2012 02:29 PM (YdQQY)

20 SMOD/OpenBlogger 2012

Posted by: garrett at June 30, 2012 02:30 PM (89Y0a)

21 Chief Justice!

Cock!  Sucka!!

Posted by: Mr. Wu at June 30, 2012 02:31 PM (TgZVh)

22 At that point I firmly believe there is no chance to turn it around. I think there's no chance to turn it around now.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 02:32 PM (IoNBC)

23 So, worst case scenario, a bunch of libs figure out how to use this ruling to justify doing stuff that's not in the Constitution? And the best case scenarios is, we get a bunch of conservatives to NOT use this ruling to do stuff that's not actually in the Constitution? Wow, I'm so relieved. I was worried we might be limited to reading the freakin' document, and abiding by it. Good to know neither side is talking about doing that.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 30, 2012 02:32 PM (2pG7H)

24 If we had a republican who had the will to save America, things would be different. We could be hopeful that Ubama would be defeated in November, republicans would  retain the house and gain the senate, and things would  move back to the right. That is if we had a republican with the will to save America. We don't have one of those. We have Romney, Boehner, and McConnell.

Posted by: EROWMER at June 30, 2012 02:32 PM (sIm3i)

25 My brain shut down 20 or so words in. I'm guessing we're still fucked?

Posted by: ErikW at June 30, 2012 02:33 PM (BNKav)

26 [Takes hash and hides from #25]

Posted by: Mama AJ on phone at June 30, 2012 02:33 PM (SUKHu)

27 "Roberts sacrificed too much for political reason, 'a little peace and quiet from attacks during a presidential election year.'"

Yep. But more to the point, f*ck that and the horse it rode in on. And even more to the point, f*ck Roberts specifically for caving in to the political season. You know, defense of the Constitution matters during elections, too. The Constitution doesn't take a day off; neither should its defenders. I guess I should begin blaming myself for trusting that Roberts was one of them.

It's at this point where we are to trust that another Congress is going to step in and override what SCOTUS just did? The same Congress where the Overton Window has moved inexorably Statist since the nation's founding? Next thing you know we'll be expected to start relying on hope and change to regain lost freedoms.

Bring on SMOD. We're f*cked. Maybe if the Tea Party expands enough, it'll be able to supply the lube for a while, but don't kid yourselves. We have just been fundamentally transformed... and a "conservative" just gave a stamp of approval.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 30, 2012 02:33 PM (eHIJJ)

28 On the bright side, the 30% (and growing) of the country that has been raised from birth to hate white people will get to enjoy some schadenfreude for a decade or two as middle class whites get hammered and their standard of living is destroyed. People do enjoy watching their enemies suffer. Eventually they'll realize, hey, maybe trying to destroy middle class white people was a bad idea. In retrospect, they really weren't such bad people. Annoyingly pale skinned, of course, but -- now that I think about it -- kinda useful to have around. Those first few bites of the golden goose probably taste great. Especially if you've been raised to think that golden goose is an evil right-wing nazi who somebody should make an example of. It's only a couple days later that you realize, hey maybe that goose wasn't so horrible after all. Kinda miss those eggs she used to lay.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 30, 2012 02:34 PM (ZPrif)

29 Don't worry....Be happy...Don't worry be happy. We'll fix it next year.

Posted by: The GOP Royalty at June 30, 2012 02:34 PM (IoNBC)

30

(SUKHu)

Nice.  Love me some good  hash.

Posted by: garrett at June 30, 2012 02:35 PM (89Y0a)

31 OK, so we are going to do nothing. It's a good thing I made my preparations in '07 and '08.. Now I can just enjoy whatever little time we have left, as ace suggested when Obama was elected.

Posted by: Meremortal at June 30, 2012 02:35 PM (Usk3+)

32 i'm glad to see that those that Know so much more about Law don't even agree on what this really means, so how are we to come to a firm determination as unstudied non law students?

Posted by: willow at June 30, 2012 02:36 PM (TomZ9)

33 meremortal, i guess we just are to go with the flow for the greater good.

Posted by: willow at June 30, 2012 02:37 PM (TomZ9)

34 Can we all just pull a Fauxcahauntus and claim to be members of an Indian tribe? They're exempt from this mes, right?

Posted by: Lauren at June 30, 2012 02:37 PM (hNLFW)

35 Lauren,  i've been trying to determine the exempt religion with the easiest rules of conduct.

Posted by: willow at June 30, 2012 02:38 PM (TomZ9)

36 Yeah, we sold out on the transportation bill, but keep the faith, baby! We'll fix it next year. We're always going to fix it next year.

Posted by: The GOP Royalty at June 30, 2012 02:39 PM (IoNBC)

37 40meremortal, i guess we just are to go with the flow for the greater good.

Posted by: willow at June 30, 2012 06:37 PM (TomZ9)

;;;;;;

 

Works for me, I'm pretty old and well prepared. If my spouse passes while I'm still mobile, I can start blowing stuff up though.

Posted by: Meremortal at June 30, 2012 02:39 PM (Usk3+)

38 Dar still is dat der`echo in me ear of Roberts Ruling.  Damn!

Posted by: Deli LLama at June 30, 2012 02:39 PM (uv9eO)

39 42 Lauren, i've been trying to determine the exempt religion with the easiest rules of conduct.

Posted by: willow at June 30, 2012 06:38 PM (TomZ9)


--Yeah, Amish and Islam are a little too tough for me.  Gotta be alternatives.

Posted by: logprof at June 30, 2012 02:39 PM (TgZVh)

40 so how are we to come to a firm determination as unstudied non law students?



Here. I sum up. The decision is a hot mess and we are utterly, utterly fucked.



Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at June 30, 2012 02:40 PM (Gk3SS)

41 But first....I will blow you.

Posted by: Super Derecho at June 30, 2012 02:40 PM (MbB0O)

42 Moneybomb for the GOP? No thanks. I'll buy another 100-box of 12-guage. Fuck the GOP.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 02:40 PM (IoNBC)

43 44 Yeah, we sold out on the transportation bill, but keep the faith, baby!

We'll fix it next year.

We're always going to fix it next year.

Posted by: The GOP Royalty at June 30, 2012 06:39 PM (IoNBC)


Word.

Posted by: Chicago Cubs at June 30, 2012 02:41 PM (TgZVh)

44 so how are we to come to a firm determination as unstudied non law students?Posted by: willow

Ambiguity always offers those seeking power room to operate and avoid scrutiny. It's by design.

Posted by: John 'Leeeroy' Roberts [/i] [/b] at June 30, 2012 02:41 PM (famk3)

45

meremortal.  well i've been praying for a nuke to land on top of my pointy head lately.?

 

Logprof , I hear ya, there must be an easier way!

 

alex, i sense it , but fkity fk. and all. closes eyes.sticks fingers in ears. lalalalala

Posted by: willow at June 30, 2012 02:43 PM (TomZ9)

46

Barnett is crazy.  The only thing we learned from this ruling is that John Roberts is yet another in a long, sad, line of disappointing SC nominees by Republican presidents.  Anyone who thinks that "the next SC" will rein in this ruling instead of expanding (or ignoring) it, is dilusional, IMO.  And anyone who thinks electing Mitt Romney will get rid of this law, once and for all, is also dilusional - it's not going away now, folks.  Get used to it.  Anything good that comes from it will get attributed to Barack Obama.  Anything bad that comes from it will be attributed to evil Republican Congressman (because they didn't "fix" what was wrong with it),

Posted by: jdp at June 30, 2012 02:44 PM (pATLG)

47 "Ambiguity always offers those seeking power room to operate and avoid scrutiny. It's by design."

Word.

Sorry if that was too unambiguous.

Posted by: Alan Greenspan at June 30, 2012 02:44 PM (eHIJJ)

48 What a shithole country we will have if federal power is allowed to go on like this completely unchecked by the same assholes who are charged with doing just that.

Posted by: Guy Who Hates Shitholes at June 30, 2012 02:44 PM (Iyg03)

49 Souter in the barn with a pig....

Posted by: Craig Poe at June 30, 2012 02:45 PM (BVkEs)

50 Ambiguity always offers those seeking power room to operate and avoid scrutiny. It's by design.

Posted by: John 'Leeeroy' Roberts at June 30, 2012 06:41 PM (famk3)

 

isn't that the dam'd truth.  how many pages to say.

 

We laugh at you and will make you eat peas, while stealing your stuff!?

Posted by: willow at June 30, 2012 02:45 PM (TomZ9)

51 doug, did you get raped by Romney's dog?

Posted by: fluffy at June 30, 2012 02:45 PM (z9HTb)

52 A very close friend who came here from England ten years ago (and is now a citizen who votes strictly (R)) has been telling me since 2009 that for all the talk about it, the Constitution is a load of crap (sorry, "rubbish"). That it can say whatever it wants, but obviously doesn't mean anything because nobody has to actually follow it. I had been clinging to my last shred of hope that she is wrong. She's not wrong.

Posted by: Ward of the State #3673295A at June 30, 2012 02:45 PM (fWqsc)

53 47 - Yeah, somebody smarter than me will have to explain it better, but any field that requires this level of expertise to understand it, and then the experts can't and won't agree with each other, is a system ripe for abuse. It's the same type of thinking that gets us poo on a piece of cardboard being called art. If we, the people, don't understand the law, we're not capable of being free. It's really that simple.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 30, 2012 02:46 PM (2pG7H)

54

 

....Commerce Clause.

Yoo keeps using these words. I do not think it means what Yoo thinks it means.

Posted by: The Dread Justice Roberts at June 30, 2012 02:46 PM (MbB0O)

55 Souter in the barn with a pig....
Posted by: Craig Poe at June 30, 2012 06:45 PM

That's not a very nice thing to say about John Sununu.

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 30, 2012 02:46 PM (Iyg03)

56 56 What a shithole country we will have if federal power is allowed to go on like this completely unchecked by the same assholes who are charged with doing just that. Now, is that kind of nasty talk justified? We'll fix it next year, just like always.

Posted by: The GOP Royalty at June 30, 2012 02:46 PM (IoNBC)

57 If we, the people, don't understand the law, we're not capable of being free. It's really that simple. Dude.

Posted by: Franz Kafka at June 30, 2012 02:48 PM (IoNBC)

58

63

 

Oink

Posted by: Warren Rudman at June 30, 2012 02:49 PM (7Z+0v)

59 I think the posters here at Ace's are a little too pessimistic. They see DOOM everywhere.

I have a wonderful girlfriend, a future job in another country waiting for me once I get my visa, and life has been giving me great things. I ain't gonna let this ruling get me down.

America is a great country, but we don't need to worship it, which is what a lot of the doomsayers are doing.

America is a great experiment. But like all experiments, as it goes on long enough, it has to end at sometime. It's a practical attitude, and more people need to look at America as that great experiment that went for nearly 250 years. If it ends, it ends. Adapt to survive.

Posted by: Picasa Tucasa at June 30, 2012 02:49 PM (KRxG0)

60 Brit Hume on Twitter: If CJ Roberts saved reputation of the court by Obamacare ruling, question is: saved it with whom? Academic & political left, that's who.

Posted by: Retread at June 30, 2012 02:50 PM (I2fq9)

61 The Roberts ruling was a crap sandwich. There is no dressing it up. It will be like abortion and the ban on public prayer. We will never get rid of it.
All this Trust me Baby, I won't *** in your mouth from the R's in Congress is just more of the same old shit.

Posted by: Pecos at June 30, 2012 02:50 PM (2Gb0y)

62 Pollyanna just showed up.

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 30, 2012 02:50 PM (Iyg03)

63

64

 

Reminds me of what they called the Dallas Cowboys many years ago.

 

Next year's champions.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at June 30, 2012 02:50 PM (7Z+0v)

64 Posted by: Picasa Tucasa at June 30, 2012 06:49 PM (KRxG0) May I ask where you're going. No particular reason--just curious.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 02:51 PM (IoNBC)

65 What is the difference now between a tax and a fine?

Posted by: Texan Economist at June 30, 2012 02:51 PM (zOcve)

66 If it ends, it ends. Adapt to survive.


That's a good attitude, young man. Now shine my boots with your tongue.

Posted by: Lord Humungous of the Wasteland at June 30, 2012 02:51 PM (z9HTb)

67
America is a great experiment. But like all experiments, as it goes on long enough, it has to end at sometime. It's a practical attitude, and more people need to look at America as that great experiment that went for nearly 250 years. If it ends, it ends. Adapt to survive.


Adapt to this!

Posted by: Craig Poe at June 30, 2012 02:51 PM (BVkEs)

68 Texan Economist@74:

Spelling.

Posted by: Alan Greenspan at June 30, 2012 02:52 PM (eHIJJ)

69 68 - Wow, that's about the most pessimistic thing I've ever read here: It'll all end, but that's ok. Some of us will live, with our girlfriends and the trinkets we take from others. The rest will die. All is well, all is fine.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 30, 2012 02:52 PM (2pG7H)

70 Picasa, o sure you can say that while ditching the country.

Posted by: willow at June 30, 2012 02:53 PM (TomZ9)

71 I have a wonderful girlfriend, a future job in another country waiting for me once I get my visa, and life has been giving me great things. I ain't gonna let this ruling get me down.

So you're happy about it because you're not going to be here? Wow, that's the kind of spirit we need!

Posted by: Ward of the State #3673295A at June 30, 2012 02:53 PM (fWqsc)

72 Whoops. Loose sock @77. Alan would surely elucidate for hours and pages.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 30, 2012 02:53 PM (eHIJJ)

73 No cocktail parties for Yoo!

Posted by: Justass Roberts at June 30, 2012 02:55 PM (AWmfW)

74 The Recovering Republic looms on the horizon.

Posted by: eman at June 30, 2012 02:55 PM (ejmiE)

75 It's wonderful to have a Russian prostitute/spy for a girlfriend. Wife is good.

Posted by: Craig Poe at June 30, 2012 02:55 PM (BVkEs)

76 Picasa, o sure you can say that while ditching the country.


I'm sure everything will be orderly under the Chinese boot heel.

Posted by: Salvador Dali Llama at June 30, 2012 02:55 PM (z9HTb)

77 Picasa Tucasa@68,

Seriously? "Meh" is the best you can muster? Where is this utopian bubble to which you're fleeing?

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 30, 2012 02:56 PM (eHIJJ)

78

68....I have a wonderful girlfriend, a future job in another country waiting for me once I get my visa, and life has been giving me great things. I ain't gonna let this ruling get me down. 

 

Hey, have fun.

And don't go whining to the US Embassy if you get thrown in jail in some foreign shit hole.

 

Posted by: wheatie at June 30, 2012 02:56 PM (MbB0O)

79 Bright side, people.

If we get just 792 seats in the House, 4500 more Senators descended from Ron Paul, and ∞+29 of our guys on the Supreme Court, we have a 50/50 chance of rescinding *a* law.

After the next election.

Unless anyone on NPR says we shouldn't.

Posted by: nope at June 30, 2012 02:56 PM (cePv8)

80 "Hopefully Mitt Romney has an adviser who sees the importance of avoiding another moderate." Heh, good one. Wait - you were serious?

Posted by: Knemon at June 30, 2012 02:57 PM (PRb/d)

81 What John Roberts did is unforgivable. His reasoning was nonsensical.

Anybody who attempts to glean anything from his impenetrable circumlocutions is committing folly.

In short John Roberts is what some suspected he was, an unprincipled, untrustworthy liberal.




Posted by: General Woundwort at June 30, 2012 02:57 PM (DWgdc)

82 86 Picasa Tucasa@68, Unlike some others here who're being sarcastic toward you, my question was an honest one.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 02:57 PM (IoNBC)

83 Hopefully Mitt Romney has an adviser who sees the importance of avoiding another moderate.
****
So...you haven't read my actual record on judicial appointments.

I certainly will appointment conservative judges, right after I get rid of Romney, uh, Obamacare. Yep...the day after.

Posted by: Mitt Romney at June 30, 2012 02:57 PM (AUeaU)

84 I can't believe Roberts took a big growler on the Constitution.  His job is to guard it. 

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 30, 2012 02:58 PM (Iyg03)

85


I have a wonderful girlfriend, a future job in another country waiting for me once I get my visa, and life has been giving me great things.

 

Well, your girl is only yours until you lose your turn.   Then it's back to the end of the line with your sorry ass.

A future job won't pay your curent bills.

Any place you go from here you will  lose liberty and freedom.

Life is just taunting you, now that you are complacent it's getting ready to  kick you in the nuts.

But thanks for the laugh.

Posted by: garrett at June 30, 2012 02:58 PM (89Y0a)

86 Alright, we need a thread about this:

Border Patrol agents in Arizona are blasting their bosses for telling them, along with all other Department of Homeland Security employees, to run and hide if they encounter an "active shooter."

“We are now taught in an ‘Active Shooter’ course that if we encounter a shooter in a public place we are to ‘run away’ and ‘hide’” union leader Brandon Judd wrote on the website of 3,300-member union local. “If we are cornered by such a shooter we are to (only as a last resort) become ‘aggressive’ and ‘throw things’ at him or her. We are then advised to ‘call law enforcement’ and wait for their arrival (presumably, while more innocent victims are slaughtered).”

FOX News - http://tinyurl.com/cep6ndy

Posted by: Ward of the State #3673295A at June 30, 2012 02:58 PM (fWqsc)

87 You really don't want to see the pictures.

Posted by: John Roberts at June 30, 2012 02:59 PM (BVkEs)

88 That's not a very nice thing to say about John Sununu.
***
Have I mentioned I picked Mitt Romney as the true conservative in the primaries? And I know how to pick them, don't I?

Posted by: John Sununu at June 30, 2012 03:00 PM (AUeaU)

89 I think the posters here at Ace's are a little too pessimistic. They see DOOM everywhere. I have a wonderful girlfriend, a future job in another country waiting for me once I get my visa, and life has been giving me great things. I ain't gonna let this ruling get me down. America is a great country, but we don't need to worship it, which is what a lot of the doomsayers are doing. America is a great experiment. But like all experiments, as it goes on long enough, it has to end at sometime. It's a practical attitude, and more people need to look at America as that great experiment that went for nearly 250 years. If it ends, it ends. Adapt to survive. Posted by: Picasa Tucasa at June 30, 2012 06:49 PM (KRxG0) Douche canoe.

Posted by: eman at June 30, 2012 03:00 PM (ejmiE)

90 Scobface@91,

No, I really want to know, too. My sarcasm wasn't meant to be offensive, just pointed.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 30, 2012 03:00 PM (eHIJJ)

91 Unlike some others here who're being sarcastic toward you, my question was an honest one.



Sarcastic.  I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Posted by: Inigo Montoya at June 30, 2012 03:00 PM (/izg2)

92 I can't believe Roberts took a big growler on the Constitution. His job is to guard it.
***
Wait, I thought you were supposed to flush when finished wiping your ass?

Posted by: John Roberts at June 30, 2012 03:01 PM (AUeaU)

93

Border Patrol agents in Arizona are blasting their bosses for telling
them, along with all other Department of Homeland Security employees, to
run and hide if they encounter an "active shooter."

 

Sounds sensible to me.

Posted by: Brave Brave Sir Robbin at June 30, 2012 03:01 PM (89Y0a)

94 Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 30, 2012 07:00 PM (eHIJJ) OK, got it.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 03:01 PM (IoNBC)

95 I agree with Barnett's interpretation, but it is the "don't get hit by a bus" scenario. As Yoo suggests, a tip of the court to the left makes Roberts' point moot. That said, Roberts' position really has the ability to rein in the actions of the Federal Government by eliminating the laundry list of conditions on spending and in so doing, disincentivizing Federal pork on things like education (school standards become local), transportation (speed limits), etc. We make 50 incubators - some win by offering services at efficient taxation levels, others waste time & money until voters replace wasteful spenders.

Posted by: Kevin in ABQ at June 30, 2012 03:01 PM (Jh1R8)

96 94 - I was really trying to figure out if he was pulling our collective legs there, but the longer it takes for him to come back and reply, the more likely it is he was being serious.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 30, 2012 03:01 PM (2pG7H)

97

Good to see Barky is threatening to veto the Defense Authorization Bill unless congress raises the amount the military pays for Tricare to help fund his ObamaTax.  Spoiled brats, each and every one of them.  Good on the Preezy.  F*uck the military.  Need all the money we can get for those sweet, sweet green energy jobs and all the other fascist  programs. 

Do I really need to sarc/off?

Posted by: Ammo Dump at June 30, 2012 03:02 PM (YYyqq)

98 I wonder how the riot rehearsals going in the Democrat training camps?

Posted by: eman at June 30, 2012 03:03 PM (ejmiE)

99 Always look on the bright side of life- "Jeb Bush Will Never Be President or Unexpected Fallout From chief Justice Roberts Decision" http://tinyurl.com/7e97gub

Posted by: naturalfake at June 30, 2012 03:03 PM (G9qZk)

100 Alright 'rons and 'ettes... your favorite patriotic films...

{list here}

I need something to get me out of this funk.

Posted by: Ward of the State #3673295A at June 30, 2012 03:04 PM (fWqsc)

101 F*uck the military. Need all the money we can get for those sweet, sweet green energy jobs and all the other fascist programs. Do I really need to sarc/off? Posted by: Ammo Dump at June 30, 2012 07:02 PM (YYyqq) That depends if you post it here or on some liberal blog?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 30, 2012 03:04 PM (j1gX1)

102 Read my big, fat purple lips: NO NEW TAXES!!

Posted by: Barack that thang up Obama at June 30, 2012 03:04 PM (BVkEs)

103 the Constitution is a load of crap (sorry, "rubbish"). That it can say whatever it wants, but obviously doesn't mean anything because nobody has to actually follow it.
***
It the end the Constitution is a set of limitations on political office holders. If the office holders won't follow the limitations, and the electorate will not punish them for doing so, it cannot save us.

Posted by: 18-1 at June 30, 2012 03:04 PM (AUeaU)

104 The Grand Caymans look great if you can figure out a way to get citizenship, but they make that extremely difficult.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 03:05 PM (IoNBC)

105 I will come. And all will fear me. But that's a good thing.

Posted by: SMOD the Liberator at June 30, 2012 03:05 PM (U67Sy)

106 I have a wonderful girlfriend, a future job in another country waiting for me once I get my visa By all means, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Posted by: StuckOnStupid at June 30, 2012 03:06 PM (R5yLq)

107 In related news, the Feds are considering adding Arabs as an official victimization group and therefore eligible for Affirmative Action and Diversity quotas. Cause it's important to fight White Privilege, the most evil of all evils. Man, reminds me of my cousins who grew up on welfare with no mother and a drunken father. Talk about some sweet, sweet white privilege. They were always lording it around with their privileged white faces. No wonder they got beaten up so often. They deserved it with their pale, look-at-me-I'm-paler-than-you skin. Who do they think they are, walking around with skin like that? I'm just so proud of my country that when they applied to college they got rejected by the better schools even though their scores were above average. Hey, community college is where those elitist welfare kids belong. And I'm even more proud of all the companies whose Diversity outreach programs my welfare-kid cousins didn't qualify for, due entirely to their pasty white complexion. I mean, what do some stupid welfare kids who practically raised themselves and worked their way through college and taught themselves useful workforce skills have to offer a modern corporation. What could some pasty, white (freckled, no less!) over-privileged welfare kids have to offer in terms of Diversity? They are the opposite of Diverse -- they're white! Just makes me proud as an American to see my family members officially and legally discriminated against solely due to the color of their skin. Cause, I mean, fuck them, right? Shouldn't a had a white mom and dad. Racist little baby. And I can't wait till my half-Vietnamese cousins grow up and check off the "asian" box and learn they have to score 300 points higher on the SAT to have an equal chance at college admissions as a black kid. Cause fuck that half-asian kid for having a mom who was into white dudes, right? She tried to fuck her way into some white privilege. But only ended up barely lower middle class. Ha! Screw you dumbass. Nothing makes me prouder as an American than to witness our openly racist Diversity laws in action. Cause the important thing is that we punish white people (and half-white, half-asian people) for the sins of people from hundreds of years ago who had roughly similar complexions. Cause, I mean, fuck them, right? And I guess it would be better to fuck over the rich whites. But it's a lot easier to fuck over the poorer whites. The ones with money are tricky. It's a lot easier to find some white or half-white kid who had a rough upbringing and just smash his dreams for the sake of racial justice and payback. The important thing is that some whites suffer. I'm just glad my family can do it's part to erase the racial sins of the past. I'm not the least bitter about seeing white (and half-white!) kids born in 1992 punished for the collective sins of whites from hundreds of years ago. Somebody's gotta pay -- might as well be the white kid with the tough family background who's been working since he was 13. He's a a much easier target than the rich white girl who went to Montessori pre-school.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 30, 2012 03:06 PM (ZPrif)

108 113 - I used to think Australia was the place to go, but if I can rely on the accuracy of internet porn, it seems all the women need to shave, and none of them do.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 30, 2012 03:06 PM (2pG7H)

109 Hello, all of you!

It is a lovely weekend here in Brattleboro, even if it's too warm. I blame global warming for this, which is certainly the fault of Republicans and Big Oil.

I have been quietly enjoying outside, tending the flowerbeds and drinking too much of this excellent Yellowtail Shiraz. This has been a great victory for correctly-thinking persons everywhere.

Even your precious Chief Justice Roberts could not resist the call of our God-King. Roberts was put in place for this. Not everyone around that smirking chimp Bush was a foolish Texan. This was foreseen by those who had the knowledge. Soon Barack will reign not as a President, but as the multi-racial divinity He truly is. Then you will see the truth. Then you will obey Him.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at June 30, 2012 03:06 PM (9OdDd)

110 Ward of the State, the Border Patrol here in Texas still had loaded guns this morning at the the town BBQ. Claimed they were still able to shoot back.
None of them were sure how long that would last. I feel so warm and safe now that the border is secure enough to shut down the BP. I'm sure that the 5 deputies here, all over 45, can handle the Zetas.  

Posted by: Pecos at June 30, 2012 03:07 PM (2Gb0y)

111

Posted by: SMOD the Liberator at June 30, 2012 07:05 PM (U67Sy)

 

Word is yer dumb as a rock. Just sayin'...

Posted by: HH at June 30, 2012 03:07 PM (v+ExF)

112 It the end the Constitution is a set of limitations on political office holders. If the office holders won't follow the limitations, and the electorate will not punish them for doing so, it cannot save us.

All she kept saying was "well, what happens if someone doesn't follow it?" Look how it took over two years just to get this thing to the SC (nevermind the disastrous result). They haven't passed a budget in three years. There's no way of enforcing the rules. And there is nothing any of us can do short of, well, it doesn't matter short of.

Posted by: Ward of the State #3673295A at June 30, 2012 03:07 PM (fWqsc)

113 Posted by: Kevin in ABQ at June 30, 2012 07:01 PM (Jh1R Roberts made it more difficult for a court to kill a bill like the ACA. He found/made a new way to protect one. Basically he called a strike a ball. This was a strike that was perfectly centered over the plate in every way. Roberts said it would be a ball if the plate were over there, thus it is a ball.

Posted by: eman at June 30, 2012 03:07 PM (ejmiE)

114 Costa Rica is awesome if you're a fed or military retiree, but I'm neither.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 03:07 PM (IoNBC)

115 Posted by: Ammo Dump at June 30, 2012 07:02 PM (YYyqq)

That depends if you post it here or on some liberal blog?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 30, 2012 07:04 PM (j1gX1)

 

Yikes!!  No liberal blogs for me!

Posted by: Ammo Dump at June 30, 2012 03:09 PM (YYyqq)

116 I feel so warm and safe now that the border is secure enough to shut down the BP. I'm sure that the 5 deputies here, all over 45, can handle the Zetas.

If the guns go away, I hope they at least have letters.

Posted by: Ward of the State #3673295A at June 30, 2012 03:09 PM (fWqsc)

117 109 Alright 'rons and 'ettes... your favorite patriotic films...

{list here}

I need something to get me out of this funk.

Posted by: Ward of the State #3673295A at June 30, 2012 07:04 PM (fWqsc)


--Just saw Patton again.  Can't lose with that one.  Another, more recent vintage, war film I have recommended here before is The Great Raid.  Not only patriotic and depicts actual WWII events, it also even has an old-school war movie feel to it in look and dialogue.

Posted by: logprof at June 30, 2012 03:09 PM (TgZVh)

118 I used to think Australia was the place to go,

Read Tim Blair for a while. Australia is a bigger nanny state than we are.

Posted by: Retread at June 30, 2012 03:10 PM (I2fq9)

119 I'm not as optimistic as Barnett. The reasoning on Wickard was paper-thin, too, but that didn't prevent it from being used for all sorts of nonsense for the last 70-some years. The political class wants a federal government of unlimited powers, and they'll use whatever tool is at hand to get there. It's supposed to be the job of the courts to uphold the constitution, not give the political class a fig leaf for getting around it.

Posted by: Ernst Blofeld at June 30, 2012 03:10 PM (V7mkK)

120 117 113 - I used to think Australia was the place to go, but if I can rely on the accuracy of internet porn, it seems all the women need to shave, and none of them do. Yeah, that are certain adjustments that'll have to be made. I haven't ruled out the Aussies, though.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 03:10 PM (IoNBC)

121 This topic has become well-tread.

Posted by: soothsayer at June 30, 2012 03:10 PM (vanqS)

122 Posted by: SMOD the Liberator at June 30, 2012 07:05 PM (U67Sy)

Word is yer dumb as a rock. Just sayin'...

Posted by: HH at June 30, 2012 07:07 PM (v+ExF)

 

and yer momma wears granny pants!  So what ya gonna do about it.

 

glare

Posted by: willow at June 30, 2012 03:11 PM (TomZ9)

123 Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 30, 2012 07:06 PM (ZPrif)

--Arabs are even more Caucasian than "Hispanics."  They're running out of ideas.

Posted by: logprof at June 30, 2012 03:11 PM (TgZVh)

124 Alright 'rons and 'ettes... your favorite patriotic films...

{list here}

I need something to get me out of this funk.


Posted by: Ward of the State #3673295A at June 30, 2012 07:04 PM (fWqsc)


The Alamo (remake, not John Wayne) is on the Military Channel tonight.

Posted by: Retread at June 30, 2012 03:11 PM (I2fq9)

125 What's next, Andrew McCarthy's opinion?

Posted by: soothsayer at June 30, 2012 03:12 PM (oB2II)

126 Congress showing restraint in the future?  Ha, ha, ha, ah...


Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 30, 2012 03:12 PM (4Ej4K)

127 E Warren promo on Ace?

Posted by: Clemenza at June 30, 2012 03:12 PM (VDYR6)

128 Half of my ancestors have been here since the 1700s; the other half have been here since the 1840s. They saw some terrible things--what was done to the native Americans, slavery--and they saw those injustices end.

I haven't begun to fight. I just got back from Mass, and the final hymn was "The Battle Hymn of the Republic," not "America the Beautiful" which it usually is around a patriotic holiday. The Church is not forgetting the violation of its liberties, and it's not letting the people forget that either. It's going to keep plugging that up to and after the election.

More than half the people oppose Obamatax--it's why the right won such huge victories in 2010. Our side doesn't riot and poop on police cars when we don't get our way, so it's hard to see how mad people are, but they are, and they won't forget.

Liberty has never been easy, or easy to maintain. We're going to have to fight. But we will, and we will win.

Breitbart Is Here.

Posted by: Palandine at June 30, 2012 03:12 PM (g7D8V)

129

109

 

Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at June 30, 2012 03:12 PM (7Z+0v)

130 I'm just a working schlub, but if I can go somewhere else and have a better life, I think now's the time.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 03:13 PM (IoNBC)

131 Australia is a bigger nanny state than we are.

Yea, but they not afraid to rape their natural resources and sell'em to the Chinese.  I like that.  I like that a lot.

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 30, 2012 03:14 PM (4Ej4K)

132 Because what can be better than having Laurence Tribe slap you on the back and bathe you in warm admiration in front of everyone just before offering you a second helping of his famous grilled bell peppers? What a coinincidence. Today we will be making Pepper Face. We start out with four bell peppers cut into one inch squares, one onion and three faces. I get my faces from my local beach. Fresh never frozen. You can clean yours if you prefer but I like mine authentic. Eyebrows on. I have already prepared the peppers and onion. Let's prepare the faces. Oh! Wait. That one looks like Barbara Walters. That won't do. So how do we prepare our refuse for the garbage? We start with a square of an aluminum foil. Place the face face down...

Posted by: The Anal Retentive Face Eater at June 30, 2012 03:14 PM (MG6Y6)

133 Thanks everyone. I will come back to this thread later to hopefully more. What a toilet of a week.

Posted by: Ward of the State #3673295A at June 30, 2012 03:14 PM (fWqsc)

134   134 Alright 'rons and 'ettes... your favorite patriotic films...

{list here}

I need something to get me out of this funk.

Operation Petticoat

Posted by: Tony Curtis at June 30, 2012 03:15 PM (YYyqq)

135

134

 

Someone told me a story about visiting the Alamo recently.  They heard a couple from up north that were wondering out loud why they would build the Alamo in the middle of downtown San Antonio.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at June 30, 2012 03:15 PM (7Z+0v)

136

We are so boned.  The progs will just keep passin' that GOP chikin' 'round.  Not just abusing it in the typical way, but pullin' it's ear; you know the reference. 

John Roberts will go down in infamy.  The progs won't long honor his activism to help their cause.  Conservatives and libertarians, after this rewriting of legislation.  Right!  I'd long ago decided that "compassionate conservative" meant center-left limo RINOs.  W's pick of Roberts has made that assessment seem paltry.

Posted by: MDr at June 30, 2012 03:15 PM (WZT1d)

137 They heard a couple from up north that were wondering out loud why they would build the Alamo in the middle of downtown San Antonio.
***
Also, why didn't the Mexicans just drive up?

Posted by: Some Liberal at June 30, 2012 03:17 PM (AUeaU)

138

"Alright 'rons and 'ettes... your favorite patriotic films..."

 

"Apollo 13" popped into mind.

 

Great cast. Great music.

 

Tom Hanks presence is offset by Gary Sinise.

Posted by: ErikW at June 30, 2012 03:17 PM (BNKav)

139 Yea, but they not afraid to rape their natural resources and sell'em to the Chinese. I like that. I like that a lot.

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 30, 2012 07:14 PM (4Ej4K)


Again I say go read Tim Blair. Julia the Squirrel slapped them with a carbon tax for all that raping.

Posted by: Retread at June 30, 2012 03:17 PM (I2fq9)

140

Posted by: willow at June 30, 2012 07:11 PM (TomZ9)

 

Oh sure, just another bright light in the sky...

 

 

Uh oh...

 

So, ummm, what's the difference between meteor and meteorite again???

Posted by: HH at June 30, 2012 03:17 PM (v+ExF)

141 Patriotic movies? Recently made?? Other than "Team America: World Police," I can't think of any. Matt and Trey are who they are, and you either like their comedy or you don't, but it's at least clear that they don't like all the right people (if that makes sense).

Posted by: BurtTC at June 30, 2012 03:17 PM (2pG7H)

142 134 Alright 'rons and 'ettes... your favorite patriotic films... I watched "Patton" again a few days ago. It wasn't the uplifting experience I expected it to be. It was a sad reminder of what we've lost.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 03:17 PM (IoNBC)

143 Someone told me a story about visiting the Alamo recently. They heard a couple from up north that were wondering out loud why they would build the Alamo in the middle of downtown San Antonio.

Bless their little yankee hearts.

Posted by: Pecos at June 30, 2012 03:18 PM (2Gb0y)

144 Patriotic film?

"Miracle," about the 1980 Winter Olympics Miracle on Ice.

Posted by: Palandine at June 30, 2012 03:18 PM (g7D8V)

145 Only the blood of "progressives" will turn me from extinguishing all living things. It is such a small price to pay...

Posted by: SMOD the Liberator at June 30, 2012 03:18 PM (U67Sy)

146 Someone told me a story about visiting the Alamo recently. They heard a couple from up north that were wondering out loud why they would build the Alamo in the middle of downtown San Antonio.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at June 30, 2012 07:15 PM (7Z+0v)


--Heh, I was just there a couple weeks ago.  Most impressive was how far afiel some of the defenders were: Scotland, Ireland, England, Italy.  Last on the tally was "John" (last name unknown), a freed slave.  Cool place.

Posted by: logprof at June 30, 2012 03:19 PM (TgZVh)

147 Matt and Trey are who they are, and you either like their comedy or you don't, but it's at least clear that they don't like all the right people (if that makes sense).


As they've said, they hate conservatives but they really fucking hate liberals. 

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at June 30, 2012 03:21 PM (Gk3SS)

148
Uh oh...

So, ummm, what's the difference between meteor and meteorite again???

Posted by: HH at June 30, 2012 07:17 PM (v+ExF

 

haha, one's dad or one's dad's kid?

Posted by: willow at June 30, 2012 03:21 PM (TomZ9)

149 Matt and Trey are who they are, and you either like their comedy or you don't, but it's at least clear that they don't like all the right people (if that makes sense).
***
I'm so ronery. So ronery.

Posted by: Kim Il Jung at June 30, 2012 03:21 PM (AUeaU)

150 154 Patriotic film?

"Miracle," about the 1980 Winter Olympics Miracle on Ice.

Posted by: Palandine at June 30, 2012 07:18 PM (g7D8V)


--Good one.  One of the best sports movies ever made, period.

Posted by: logprof at June 30, 2012 03:21 PM (TgZVh)

151 Randy Barnett thinks my opinion is lame?  I think it's time for Randy Barnett to get a little bit of that sweet sweet tax treatment.

Posted by: Taxin' John Roberts at June 30, 2012 03:21 PM (LK3ef)

152 or is that a metreoroide?

Posted by: willow at June 30, 2012 03:22 PM (TomZ9)

153

94....Life is just taunting you, now that you are complacent it's getting ready to kick you in the nuts.
But thanks for the laugh.

Posted by: garrett at June 30, 2012 06:58 PM (89Y0a)

 

Yep, garrett....the quickest way to jinx yourself, is to brag about how great your life is.

Picasa Tucasa has not only jinxed himself, but he's added to that the bad karma of shitting on all those who have made the ultimate sacrifice....for this 'American experiment' that he feels is so disposable.

 

Posted by: wheatie at June 30, 2012 03:22 PM (MbB0O)

154

>>Patriotic film?

 

Army Brat 2 - The New Recruit

Posted by: garrett at June 30, 2012 03:22 PM (89Y0a)

155 "America is a great experiment. But like all experiments, as it goes on long enough, it has to end at sometime. It's a practical attitude, and more people need to look at America as that great experiment that went for nearly 250 years. If it ends, it ends. Adapt to survive." Breathes there a man with soul so dead... The number of countries 1. small government conservatism is anywhere close to mainstream or 2. where a republican government, free market economy, and small "l" liberalism are its raison d'etre (as opposed to useful tools at the moment) is still limited. After America, I guess I could run to Switzerland or Australia or somewhere, but it wouldn't be the same. You don't just give up, especially if the US gave your family refuge when they needed it. If you believe in the idea, you fight for it, at least metaphorically, and don't bail until you're pushed out.

Posted by: AD at June 30, 2012 03:23 PM (D34Ny)

156

--Good one. One of the best sports movies ever made, period.


 

Posted by: logprof at June 30, 2012 07:21 PM (TgZVh)

 

 

I still haven't seen that.

Posted by: ErikW at June 30, 2012 03:23 PM (BNKav)

157 Batman is on MeTV. The Mad Hatter is this week's villain. And he just made Batman's hood pink.

Posted by: soothsayer at June 30, 2012 03:24 PM (/eLjI)

158

 Uh....I think it's a 'Meteor' while it's coming down, still in the air.

It becomes a 'Meteorite' once it has hit.

I think.

Posted by: wheatie at June 30, 2012 03:24 PM (MbB0O)

159 Australia, yea, they are now required by law and under penalty of death for all I know, to carry private insurance, because after  a whopping 30 years or so (if that) this grand socialized medicine isn't working out as planned. Hospitals are also being shut down. This with a population of only 30 million.

Also, they have unemployment for life there.


And very tough immigration laws, I might add, and I don't think you can even buy a home unless you're a citizen. (I may be confusing them with Mexico on that one, though)

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at June 30, 2012 03:24 PM (3inkD)

160 Maybe I shouldn't be thinking of where I can have a better life now. Maybe I should be thinking of where I'm likely to have a better life in the future. The Czech Republic seems to be an up-and-comer. And their women are absolutely unbelievably beautiful.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 03:24 PM (IoNBC)

161

anyhoo,  i really do wonder at robert's for expecting niceties to come out of the govt  after what we've witness'd in the last couple of decades.

 i'm digging the new can kill americans by assasination now.

and neat cool laws trying to help us be healthier. who wants sugar or salt  anyway.

Posted by: willow at June 30, 2012 03:24 PM (TomZ9)

162 Coach Brooks' speech before the American team's game against the Soviets from "Miracle" -- http://tinyurl.com/b3dazr . Pure awesome.

Posted by: Palandine at June 30, 2012 03:24 PM (g7D8V)

163 166 --Good one. One of the best sports movies ever made, period.

Posted by: logprof at June 30, 2012 07:21 PM (TgZVh)


I still haven't seen that.

Posted by: ErikW at June 30, 2012 07:23 PM (BNKav)


--Kirk Russell does a pretty good Minnesota accent as Herb Brooks.  One of the few Disney movies I heartily recommend.

Posted by: logprof at June 30, 2012 03:25 PM (TgZVh)

164 @34, I reserve the right to copy that verbatim and post everywhere I can, giving you full credit!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at June 30, 2012 03:25 PM (3inkD)

165 157 - Eventually, probably not in our lifetimes, we're going to have to retire the terms "conservative/liberal" and "right/left," or at least re-order them. Nothing to me screams "conservative" in the classic sense of the word, than all three branches of government fighting the people to keep their power in place. A radical/liberal/progressive attitude in these times might look much more like our founding fathers' concepts of these words. I want to be a liberal, I really do, but I'm not a radical, and I don't believe in progress, but we'll see. Smod, indeed, I am now one of yours.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 30, 2012 03:25 PM (2pG7H)

166 One thing people forget is that the rules are made and enforced by "the political class," the Beltway, whatever you want to call it. This is a subculture within America, and one that is substantially more statist that the general public, even its "conservative" wing. When you poll inside and outside the beltway, you get substantially different results on philosophical issues regarding government's size and power. And we're not talking about the 537 people we get to vote on, it's the several million others in that subculture. The Constitution is the leash to keep their eternal ambitions in order, and it just got stabbed. Again. We can "vote the bastards out" but they never replace the millions of others that inform them and interpret and carry out their orders. We have an aristocracy that doesn't reflect the population. Anyone want to guess how that ends? The problem with Rombley is that I don't think he's the sort to "clean house," if that's even possible. Republicans go along to get along, leave the majority of the bureaucracy in place, etc. The Dems pack it with their philosophical fellows as a matter of course.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 30, 2012 03:25 PM (bxiXv)

167 Because what can be better than having Laurence Tribe slap you on the back and bathe you in warm admiration[-i] in front of everyone just before offering you a second helping of his famous grilled bell peppers?

Why does that sound just a wee bit ghey to me?

Posted by: Mjölnir the banhammer at June 30, 2012 03:26 PM (Jls4P)

168 And your other comment @116, too!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at June 30, 2012 03:26 PM (3inkD)

169  Yankee Doodle Dandy with James Cagney is fantastic, and it makes you feel good about America. And James Cagney was a heck of a dancer.

Posted by: Ruby at June 30, 2012 03:26 PM (QAUe4)

170

wheatie,  alright.

but through our atmosphere or just after the POW?

Posted by: willow at June 30, 2012 03:27 PM (TomZ9)

171 Uh....I think it's a 'Meteor' while it's coming down, still in the air. It becomes a 'Meteorite' once it has hit. I think. Posted by: wheatie at June 30, 2012 07:24 PM (MbB0O) Correct.

Posted by: eman at June 30, 2012 03:27 PM (ejmiE)

172 You can basically buy your citizenship in to Belize (last time I looked it was about $200k) but as Mr. Macaffee recently found out, you have shit for rights there. Cops just went in to his crib and took everything, including guns and cash.

He is still going boo hoo over that one.

Posted by: navybrat at June 30, 2012 03:28 PM (LRY2r)

173  @ 13 ... it's not "crack" per se, it's virgin unicorn blood. You can't just get that anywhere

Posted by: bobby at June 30, 2012 03:28 PM (0F6Sg)

174 ok one is dad's kid after he hit home run?

Posted by: willow at June 30, 2012 03:28 PM (TomZ9)

175

or is that a metreoroide?

Only if it hits you in the ass.

Posted by: doctor zoidberg at June 30, 2012 03:29 PM (nrW1y)

176

i was almost there!

 

well it has been years since earth science in school.

Posted by: willow at June 30, 2012 03:29 PM (TomZ9)

177 We've got no hills left to fight on, and our feet are wet.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 30, 2012 03:29 PM (bxiXv)

178 Barnett is right.  Ace and Yoo are wrong.

The current ruling offers the best chance to unseat Obama.  And if Obama is denied a second term, then Yoo's "practicality" is rendered moot.  The future of the US is dependent on the willingness of The People to defend their rights - it is not the Supreme Court or the Presidency that will it for us..

For too long we've depended on the Executive and Judicial branches of the Government to determine policy;  we've live off the fat of the land for so long that Congress has become more or less the arbiter of the pie slices rather than the watchguard for our freedom and liberties.

Well, we're in lean times now and bitching about Supreme Court rulings is small beer compared to the large-scale theft going on in the Executive Branch.  It's time to re-invigorate the Legislative Branch.

Posted by: mrp at June 30, 2012 03:30 PM (HjPtV)

179

"I still haven't seen that."

 

Neither have I, and I keep forgetting about it. Really need to see it.

 

One thing though, and maybe ya'll can clue me in. Did anyone ever make a film from the book "The  Man Without a Country"?

 

Because that is pretty much THE most patriotic thing I've ever read.

Posted by: HH at June 30, 2012 03:30 PM (v+ExF)

180 Look at me, pissing on the Colorado fires, a day late and a dollar short.

Posted by: Barack that thang up Obama at June 30, 2012 03:30 PM (BVkEs)

181
The rest is history.

Posted by: Doctor Fish at June 30, 2012 07:28 PM (hvwLi)


Hey, would you like to "help" me with my next autobiography?

Posted by: Baraka Obama at June 30, 2012 03:30 PM (TgZVh)

182 186 or is that a metreoroide?
Only if it hits you in the ass.

Posted by: doctor zoidberg at June 30, 2012 07:29 PM (nrW1y)

Posted by: proctologist say nothing at June 30, 2012 03:30 PM (TomZ9)

183

He is still going boo hoo over that one.

 

That's a taxin'.

 

 

Posted by: Justice Jasper at June 30, 2012 03:31 PM (89Y0a)

184
   Reading the doom and gloom is getting tiresome. I understand that everyone is pissed (putting it mildly) about the latest shitfest--going over and over it does nothing to solve the problem, though.

     I will DIE fighting to save my country from the ravages of the left--if that is what it entails.  No quit, no whine, no discouragement, just fight.  Always within the law.

   It starts at the dog catcher level--councilman, mayor, etc. A long slog, to borrow a phrase, and you must understand the battle will not cease.  It's the price paid for the  system we live under.  More literate people than I have pointed that out, much more eloquently.

    Y'all can deride me or ignore me, no problem, I'll continue on without faltering.

Posted by: irongrampa at June 30, 2012 03:31 PM (SAMxH)

185

 Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 30, 2012 07:29 PM (bxiXv)

 

well yes, but that is rain!

Posted by: no really at June 30, 2012 03:32 PM (TomZ9)

186

180wheatie, alright.
but through our atmosphere or just after the POW?

 

After the Pow, they call them 'Meteorites'.....if they make it through the atmosphere.

Posted by: wheatie at June 30, 2012 03:32 PM (MbB0O)

187 Remember back in 2004 when all the moonbats said they were moving to Canada and we said Good! and we laughed? That's what theyre doing now. I'm not going anyfuckingwhere. This is MY country. So they'll still have at least me to defeat before they took over completely.

Posted by: soothsayer at June 30, 2012 03:32 PM (Af6GM)

188 155 Only the blood of "progressives" will turn me from extinguishing all living things. It is such a small price to pay...

Posted by: SMOD the Liberator at June 30, 2012 07:18 PM (U67Sy)


Sounds like a reasonable compromise. DEAL!

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 30, 2012 03:32 PM (AWmfW)

189 I have a neighbor who's son moved to Belize.  He says the way to deal with the police is to become indispensable to them.  You're apparently allowed to bring in a couple of containers a year worth of stuff tax free, and you make sure that the local police are greased off accordingly with suitable swag from your imports.

Basically, you have to work the corruption like its a job/business, which it is. 

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 30, 2012 03:35 PM (4Ej4K)

190 I'm serious about this. I'm ready to get the fuck out if there's a better place for me to go. I'd welcome suggestions.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 03:35 PM (IoNBC)

191 "doug, did you get raped by Romney's dog?"

Posted by: fluffy at June 30, 2012 06:45 PM (z9HTb)

 

We all did, and now we aren't just his bitches we are Obama's and Robert's as well.

Posted by: doug at June 30, 2012 03:37 PM (gUGI6)

192 we need to get as active as they've been for decades. quickly

Posted by: willow at June 30, 2012 03:37 PM (TomZ9)

193

Yeah....I'm not going anywhere, either.

 

If we slide even further into the mawing yaw of the totalitarian abyss....I plan to be a thorn in their side.

A fly in their ointment.

A misbehaver.

A dissenter.

And a fighter....if it comes to that.

Posted by: wheatie at June 30, 2012 03:37 PM (MbB0O)

194 200 I have a neighbor who's son moved to Belize. He says the way to deal with the police is to become indispensable to them. You're apparently allowed to bring in a couple of containers a year worth of stuff tax free, and you make sure that the local police are greased off accordingly with suitable swag from your imports.

Basically, you have to work the corruption like its a job/business, which it is.

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 30, 2012 07:35 PM (4Ej4K)


--Wouldn't a drawback to Belize be that its currency is pegged to the US dollar?  If the Fed sends it even further down the shitter that could be a big problem.

Posted by: logprof at June 30, 2012 03:38 PM (TgZVh)

195 @  201

   Tell you what--if you can find a more exceptional country on the planet to move to, let me know.

    I'll be right behind you.

Posted by: irongrampa at June 30, 2012 03:38 PM (SAMxH)

196

"After the Pow, they call them 'Meteorites'....."

 

Actually, at that point I think they call them 'craters'...

Posted by: HH at June 30, 2012 03:39 PM (v+ExF)

197 I've been thinking... doesn't Obamatax fold under its own weight anyway? Look at Greece - they're out of $ and they won't be reassembling the vast welfare state anytime soon, if ever. I mean, we supposedly have 84T in unfunded Medicare liabilities, Social Security is going broke, right? The collapse is a mathematical certainty anyway, so how long will this actually be around? I understand it's a bullshit ruling and a dangerous precedent, but will it matter 10yrs from now?

Posted by: Michelle's mustache at June 30, 2012 03:39 PM (upVqO)

198 200 I have a neighbor who's son moved to Belize. He says the way to deal with the police is to become indispensable to them. You're apparently allowed to bring in a couple of containers a year worth of stuff tax free, and you make sure that the local police are greased off accordingly with suitable swag from your imports.

Basically, you have to work the corruption like its a job/business, which it is.

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 30, 2012 07:35 PM (4Ej4K)


It's a TAX!

Posted by: Justass Roberts at June 30, 2012 03:40 PM (AWmfW)

199 Are wheatie and me the only Wolverines here?

Posted by: soothsayer at June 30, 2012 03:40 PM (LPRBM)

200 If the Fed sends it even further down the shitter that could be a big problem.

It would have to crater hard.  Apparently a luxury fine dining experience in Belize can eb had for about $10, rather than the couple hundred it'll set  you back here.

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 30, 2012 03:41 PM (4Ej4K)

201 Yoo is right, and even worse, there is not a hope in Hell that even an overwhelming Congressional and Presidential landslide for the NERINO part will actually move enough men and women with spines and principles into positions of influence within a "Romney" Administration. The only way to actually take up Robert's challenge (although it could more properly be termed an invitation to defeat) is to aggressively move to dismantle every aspect of ObamaTaxCare via legislation and Executive Orders. Only in an alternate universe, in which I wish I lived, can I see a Romney actually using an Executive Order for preservation of the Constitution. The NERINO's have never actually dismantled anything EXCEPT the Constitution. Did they (Boner's & Cantor's) Republican House) actually repeal (or at least bring to the floor) legislation ensuring that we can buy 100W incandescent bulbs in the future? No! For the simplest trivial act that allows individual choice of a purchase, they could not bring themselves to do anything except (temporarily) refuse to authorize funds to enforce this ban. Did they refuse to continue the absurd counter-productive ethanol requirements? No, of course not because ADM has deep campaign pockets. Did they require that the Keystone pipeline be included within the Transportation Bill? No, because a VACATION was coming up. So logically, I expect the same level of principled action from NERINO leadership in the future, and it only the infinitesimal difference in the rate of descent into socialist Hell between Romney and Obama that will make me crawl through broken glass covered minefields and then swim through a salt water bath to get to the polls to vote for Romney, knowing that my vote will probably be canceled by a Democrat operative registered and voting a Mickey Acorn Mouse. But I can be comforted in the fact that, no matter what happens to the majority of citizens of the US, at least CJ Roberts will continue to live in a fine house in a gated community, free from worried about his and his family's healthcare issues, and will always get good tee times and A-list dinner party invitations from the Harvard ruling class.

Posted by: Hrothgar - CJSC Designated Serf at June 30, 2012 03:41 PM (i3+c5)

202 I understand it's a bullshit ruling and a dangerous precedent, but will it matter 10yrs from now? Posted by: Michelle's mustache at June 30, 2012 07:39 PM (upVqO) Only if you have children and grandchildren

Posted by: Hrothgar - CJSC Designated Serf at June 30, 2012 03:43 PM (i3+c5)

203 That's exactly what it is.  In places where corruption is institutionalized, it functions exactly as a tax.

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 30, 2012 03:43 PM (4Ej4K)

204 I'll be right behind you. Well, really you won't. I'm asking the question honestly. I don't have much money, but I'm ready to take a chance on another place to live.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 03:43 PM (IoNBC)

205 208 I've been thinking... doesn't Obamatax fold under its own weight anyway? Look at Greece - they're out of $ and they won't be reassembling the vast welfare state anytime soon, if ever. I mean, we supposedly have 84T in unfunded Medicare liabilities, Social Security is going broke, right? The collapse is a mathematical certainty anyway, so how long will this actually be around? I understand it's a bullshit ruling and a dangerous precedent, but will it matter 10yrs from now?

Posted by: Michelle's mustache at June 30, 2012 07:39 PM (upVqO)


By design , it's another crisis opportunity for centralizing power grab.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 30, 2012 03:43 PM (AWmfW)

206 I just have two things to say. 1. When is the Cheese thread going up? 2. Wolverines!

Posted by: soothsayer at June 30, 2012 03:43 PM (yhYn1)

207 Patriotic film-- Battle: Los Angeles.  The reloading scene at the end is pure poetry.

It may be fun to fantasize about leaving, but this country is still the best of all the options.  I'm staying.  And fighting.

(Filling out application to request Honey Badger as spirit totem....)

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at June 30, 2012 03:43 PM (wfSF5)

208 The person that Romney puts in HHS and Treasury will be more important than Vice President. They can change the "regulations" to comply with the law as written or eliminate them all together as unenforceable.

Posted by: TJexcite at June 30, 2012 03:44 PM (AsD76)

209 I'm all for righteous indignation, anger and disgust. But I'm sick of the defeatist moaning. The oh we're doomed, might as well just roll over and die shit.

Not long ago, most of us hadn't even considered the possibility that ACA would be challenged at the SC. That was always a long shot. We were lured into predicting it would be overturned only because of the hysterical lefty anti-SC pre-spin. (And because of the merits of the case, of course-- but there was always a better than even chance that a swing judge, likely Kennedy, would rule to uphold. It just turned out to be Roberts instead.)

Plan A was always repeal, which is only possible as long as Obama doesn't get a second term. We've got a GOP nominee and every Republican politician in the country (and some Democrats too) explicitly on board with the intent to repeal. Let's do this.

Also, enough with the lamentations for a golden political age, for a prelapsarian edenic state of America, when our freedoms were safe and secure. There was a time when the NYT wasn't just an apologist for Obama, but an apologist for Stalin. I thought one of the things that distinguished conservatives is the recognition that politics, human beings, institutions, democracy, reliably suck and are bound to be great disappointments almost all of the time. (As Churchill said of democracy, worst form of government-- except for all the others.) Freedom is always a fragile possession; pushing back governmental overreach, greedy for more centralized power, is a never-ending battle. Nor should such battles ever "end"-- any "end" to the fight means an end to democracy itself.

We have never had and never will have guaranteed perfect interpreters of the Constitution. If the fact that Roberts fucked this one up is the end of America, America would've been dead long ago.

The threats to our republic and the integrity of the Constitution have been greater in the past, and will be greater again. Obama is a terrible, terrible, terrible SCOAMF. But he's on the ropes, and this apparent "victory" doesn't change that.

And yeah, Romney's far from perfect. So? We're conservatives-- since when do conservatives expect *any* politician to be perfect, any politician to be a hero or savior or saint? Leave that for the Dems adoring their Obamessiah, voting for the mirage that will lower the waters and heal the planet. I'll vote for Romney knowing he's a flawed and imperfect man, with my eyes open, and that doesn't dampen my enthusiasm to vote for him one bit. I'm not looking for Reagan 2 Electric Boogaloo. Give me a supercompetent guy with extensive private sector and executive expertise whose primary campaign message so far is against big encroaching European-style government, and pro free enterprise, fuck yeah.

Romney's not going to be POTUS of MA. Give him a Republican Congress (with a good dose of Tea Party conservatives)-- and game on.

Posted by: lael at June 30, 2012 03:44 PM (kfIw+)

210

210Are wheatie and me the only Wolverines here?

 

I hope not, soothsayer.

I am not only a 'rainy day patriot'....but I will still keep fighting even if it's a fucking blizzard.

 

But we do seem to have some 'sunshine patriots' around, who see the clouds coming and want to run away.

Posted by: wheatie at June 30, 2012 03:45 PM (MbB0O)

211 HH @ 190: Did anyone ever make a film from the book "The Man Without a Country"?

Several times.  Last one I know of was a 1973 TV movie starring Cliff Robertson.

Posted by: butch at June 30, 2012 03:46 PM (nK2Sx)

212 As a practical matter, it would take Romney a full four years just to purge the low/mid level Obama hired Federal employees from the system...and he will have to try because they'll be doing everything they can to sabotage his presidency.

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 30, 2012 03:46 PM (4Ej4K)

213 This is why we need closer ties to the United Nations. Binding the human family closer will keep you non-progressives from going away to do non-progressive things.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at June 30, 2012 03:46 PM (9OdDd)

214 210 - Wolverine... the one with the claws? I'm not that into the X-Men stuff. You don't strike me as a wolverine type, is there one that turns into a butterfly?

Posted by: BurtTC at June 30, 2012 03:46 PM (2pG7H)

215 @thedailybeast Obama makes desperate calls aboard AF1, warning donors Romney is leaving him in the dust http://thebea.st/O4aPvs

Posted by: Retread at June 30, 2012 03:46 PM (I2fq9)

216 WOLVERINES!!!

Posted by: Mjölnir the banhammer at June 30, 2012 03:47 PM (Jls4P)

217 Romney's not going to be POTUS of MA. Give him a Republican Congress (with a good dose of Tea Party conservatives)-- and game on.
***
Damn straight.

I will severely conservativise America with fundamentally conservative ideas, like health care mandates, appointing liberal judges, and spending like a Democrat.

Posted by: Mitt Romney at June 30, 2012 03:48 PM (AUeaU)

218 Papa Bush: Judge Souter. Little Bush: John Roberts. What logical reason do we have for believing Romney will really do better?

I'll help paint a more bleak picture. Romney routinely put liberal activists on the state courts in Mass. The only reason to believe he 'might' do better is if there's a GOP Senate that is willing to demand a truly conservative choice.

I'll state this plainly: The meme that we need GOP Presidents to ensure conservative courts is shattered. Permanently.

Posted by: Shawn at June 30, 2012 03:48 PM (/lltO)

219 @  215

   There was no smartass in my answer.  Current problems not withstanding, that was an honest statement.

    Maybe if you look at it from this standpoint---whatever men fucked up here, men can FIX here. Not an easy task, but it CAN be done.

Posted by: irongrampa at June 30, 2012 03:49 PM (SAMxH)

220 @213. did you read the first part of my question? I asked if we continue on our current trajectory, how will the government afford socialized medicine? We already can't afford it, right? my point was that soon it will become apparent that we can't afford it, much like Greece. Something that can't continue won't continue. It 's unfortunate it won't be stopped before then...I agree my children are screwed, with or without Obamatax.

Posted by: Michelle's mustache at June 30, 2012 03:49 PM (upVqO)

221 Posted by: lael at June 30, 2012 07:44 PM (kfIw+) Good on ya mate, but I think you may be underestimating the power of pandering, corruption, and free stuff. Effecting change is really hard work, and I am no longer sure that we have enough citizens that are unwilling to be bought to bring it off.

Posted by: Hrothgar - CJSC Designated Serf at June 30, 2012 03:50 PM (i3+c5)

222 who see the clouds coming and want to run away.

Were it only clouds, but its not.  We're looking at a minimum of 20 years of extreme hardship with every economic move planned and executed to perfection for the USA to survive as a nation.

These are the longest odds this country has ever faced in is history.  I give no more than a 5% chance for survival.  What do you suppose the chances of govt doing everything right are?

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 30, 2012 03:50 PM (4Ej4K)

223 Really now. Czech women are fucking beautiful. Is there anyone here who wants to argue against that? If I have to live in a nanny state, why should'nt I live in a nanny state with women who are absolutely, undeniably, unbelievably, fucking beautiful?

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 03:51 PM (IoNBC)

224

Posted by: butch at June 30, 2012 07:46 PM (nK2Sx)

 

Thanks much. Didn't know that. Gonna have to seek them out.

Posted by: HH at June 30, 2012 03:51 PM (v+ExF)

225 234 - I live in the United States. We have some attractive women here.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 30, 2012 03:54 PM (2pG7H)

226 Maybe if you look at it from this standpoint---whatever men fucked up here, men can FIX here. Not an easy task, but it CAN be done. Irongranpa, I guess my problem is that I don't believe anyone in a position to seriously affect policy gives a flying fuck.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 03:54 PM (IoNBC)

227 As a practical matter, it would take Romney a full four years just to purge the low/mid level Obama hired Federal employees from the system...and he will have to try because they'll be doing everything they can to sabotage his presidency.Posted by: Purp

So what you're saying is the Federal gov needs reorganization... as if they are bankrupt or something ...

Posted by: John 'Leeeroy' Roberts [/i] [/b] at June 30, 2012 03:55 PM (famk3)

228 I live in the United States. We have some attractive women here Yes. Most of them are fucking liberals.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 03:56 PM (IoNBC)

229 Posted by: Michelle's mustache at June 30, 2012 07:49 PM (upVqO) The ObamaTaxCare plan was never to have the government actually afford quality socialized medicine, because as you indicate, it is mathematically impossible. What is possible, is to take over health care, administer it via a faceless, incompetent, unaccountable bureaucracy that is given rationing power. End result, the elites still have access to Mayo, Johns Hopkins, and other boutique medical facilities as they can easily go outside the "system". The majority of the rest of us, will line up at the counter, take a number, and hope we don't expire before the IPAB Nazi says "No Treatment for YOU!"

Posted by: Hrothgar - CJSC Designated Serf at June 30, 2012 03:57 PM (i3+c5)

230 Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 07:51 PM (IoNBC) Is learning Czech easy? But then again, who needs to talk?

Posted by: Hrothgar - CJSC Designated Serf at June 30, 2012 03:58 PM (i3+c5)

231 239 I live in the United States. We have some attractive women here

Yes. Most of them are fucking liberals.

Name two.

Posted by: Craig Poe at June 30, 2012 03:58 PM (BVkEs)

232 Is learning Czech easy? But then again, who needs to talk? That's the biggest negative, no doubt about it.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 03:59 PM (IoNBC)

233 Posted by: Craig Poe at June 30, 2012 07:58 PM (BVkEs) Eat me.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 04:01 PM (IoNBC)

234 Irongrampa @ 230 - I admire your viewpoint, but there are too many parasites who are happy with the system as is and who will violently resist any effort to avoid the inevitable crash. 

What cannot be sustained must eventually end.  We can try to increase the likelihood of our surviving the results of that crash.  Hopefully many of the parasites will perish during the die-off, through their own actions or with help from us.  I weep for my children and my grandson.

BTW, former upstate NY-er here.  I miss Saratoga Springs.

Posted by: butch at June 30, 2012 04:01 PM (nK2Sx)

235 Sounds like he has shot in financial wad... spending to much money on Choom, blow and gay prostitutes.

Too bad, so sad, Choomer.... enjoy retirement in Chi-town.  At least you'll find out who some of the White Sox players are...

Posted by: Mjölnir the banhammer at June 30, 2012 04:01 PM (Jls4P)

236 IMHO, the title of this post should have been "He says this, You says that"

And the conclusion I have is...secession is long overdue.  The states remaining in the so-called union wouldn't have the guts to start a second civil war.

Posted by: Mr_Write at June 30, 2012 04:01 PM (CLkAH)

237

>>The person that Romney puts in HHS and Treasury will be more important than Vice President. They can change the "regulations" to comply with the law as written or eliminate them all together as unenforceable.<<

Yeah.  And the next one can change them back.  Ain't gonna work.

Posted by: jdp at June 30, 2012 04:03 PM (pATLG)

238 And the conclusion I have is...secession is long overdue. The states remaining in the so-called union wouldn't have the guts to start a second civil war.Posted by: Mr_Write

Ok, Blood and Guts. Tell us how much fun the first one was.

Posted by: John 'Leeeroy' Roberts [/i] [/b] at June 30, 2012 04:03 PM (famk3)

239

I don't think it will take as long as some of you think it will....to turn things around.

 

For example.....just removing the sabotage to our Energy Production.....will create thousands and thousands of jobs.

And rather quickly too.

That's just one example.

 

What is encouraging to me about Romney....is that he was a 'turn around' expert with ailing companies.

Guys like that don't fuck around.

They do what they do, quickly, in an analytical and dispassionate manner.

I have seen them in action.

This is what we need.

And I say this as a Perry supporter, who thinks that he would have also done a good job of doing much the same things.

Posted by: wheatie at June 30, 2012 04:03 PM (MbB0O)

240 Oh, and I will do my best to shatter the elites' notion they will escape unscathed.

Posted by: butch at June 30, 2012 04:03 PM (nK2Sx)

Posted by: butch at June 30, 2012 04:05 PM (nK2Sx)

242 239 - If you are young, that's going to be true. But some of us with a few miles on our odometer have had the experience of watching the women we are boinking, grow up into becoming responsible adults. Or not. In which case, if they want to stay liberals, you can still boink them, just don't marry them.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 30, 2012 04:06 PM (2pG7H)

243 Hrothgar, no doubt. It's an uphill battle... an uphill battle in a blizzard with ten feet of snow on the ground and crevasses everywhere.

But I think it must have felt this way to conservatives (or classical liberals) at many other times in our history-- as if they're always trudging against the wind, losing the battle. The power of pandering, corruption, and free stuff; the ignorance and gullibility of a majority of people; a misinforming and disinforming MSM... I don't think any of that is new. And in some ways (e.g. with respect to the dissemination of information), we're better off nowadays.

There's a lot of educating of the citizenry that needs to be done. The left's near-total domination of academia makes this very difficult. But it's not impossible. A term of Obama has been in many ways as instructive, as useful a political lesson, as a term of Carter was. It seems like every couple generations we need to learn such lessons again.

Posted by: lael at June 30, 2012 04:06 PM (kfIw+)

244 For example.....just removing the sabotage to our Energy Production.....will create thousands and thousands of jobs. And rather quickly too. That's just one example. Posted by: wheatie at June 30, 2012 08:03 PM (MbB0O) That went well in this transportation bill, after all, a vacation for the House is more important that worrying about real jobs that contribute to a sustainable solid growing economy. They (House NERINOs) didn't even make a gesture for Keystone!

Posted by: Hrothgar - CJSC Designated Serf at June 30, 2012 04:07 PM (i3+c5)

245 Posted by: BurtTC at June 30, 2012 08:06 PM (2pG7H) Heh.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 04:10 PM (IoNBC)

246 Ok, Blood and Guts. Tell us how much fun the first one was. Posted by: John 'Leeeroy' Roberts at June 30, 2012 08:03 PM (famk3) What's your solution? Don't say "voting," because we all know that's a fucking joke.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 04:13 PM (IoNBC)

247 South Korea. Goddam, what a growing economy.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 04:15 PM (IoNBC)

248 What's your solution? Don't say "voting," because we all know that's a fucking joke. Posted by: Scobface

If you don't have enough votes to win an election, you don't have enough votes to win a secession.

Posted by: John 'Leeeroy' Roberts [/i] [/b] at June 30, 2012 04:15 PM (famk3)

249 Just a verbiage quibble -- "ruling class" is, I think, a better insult than "elites". "Elites" implies they actually are superior, just that they are jerks about it. "Ruling class" naturally ruffles the feathers of most Americans who hear it. They don't think there should be a "ruling class". We don't have a caste system. This isn't India. I try to never call them "elites". Cause they aren't. Ruling class fucktards is good. Ruling class progressive trash has a nice ring.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 30, 2012 04:16 PM (ZPrif)

250 Good leaders undertand each situation, company, or environment is unique.  Saw the interview with the Romney's on their campaign bus with Hannity.  Either Ann Romney is an accomplished liar and outstanding actress (which I do not believe) or she genuinely feels the fear from the American public while on the campaign trail.  I get the very real sense that Mitt will lead to the situation rather than being led by events.  Believe the Romney's have found their mission and it is to save the republic. 

Posted by: Ammo Dump at June 30, 2012 04:16 PM (YYyqq)

251 @221 People like us always seem to be working when it counts. Making or doing things that make this country what it is. Great. Not this time for me. I've been out of my default position of happy since Thursday. I'm really good at rightin' things. This one is hard though. Where to start? In TX. Home in CO.

Posted by: Riding Back From The Desert On A Sock Named Liberty Bringing Hell With Him at June 30, 2012 04:17 PM (MG6Y6)

252 Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 30, 2012 08:16 PM (ZPrif) cut, jib, newsletter!

Posted by: Hrothgar at June 30, 2012 04:18 PM (i3+c5)

253 Flatbush Joe: "Ruling class fucktards is good."

I prefer "sanctimonious pricks and a-holes." YMMV.

It takes just their kind of "brainpower" and "wisdom" to have delivered us where we are now. Perhaps less would be better.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 30, 2012 04:20 PM (eHIJJ)

254 @   245

    It is impossible for me to generate less concern for the welfare of our parasite class.  I mean the TRUE parasites, not the unfortunates who are temporarily hindered.

    But we need to stay with it, so that should things crash, the right ones are there to pick up the pieces.

Posted by: irongrampa at June 30, 2012 04:20 PM (SAMxH)

255 If you don't have enough votes to win an election, you don't have enough votes to win a secession. With all due respect, John (and I mean that just as condescendingly as it sounds) if we have no one to vote for who represents our interests, then "voting" becomes essentially meaningless, doesn't it?

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 04:20 PM (IoNBC)

256 Oops. My previous post sounded like I am out of work. Nope. I meant to say I would put the effort in on top of that.

Posted by: Riding Back From The Desert On A Sock Named Liberty Bringing Hell With Him at June 30, 2012 04:23 PM (MG6Y6)

257 234 Really now. Czech women are fucking beautiful. Is there anyone here who wants to argue against that?

If I have to live in a nanny state, why should'nt I live in a nanny state with women who are absolutely, undeniably, unbelievably, fucking beautiful?

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 07:51 PM (IoNBC)


--Slovakia: everyone thinks of the Czechs, but the Slovaks are like the hot younger sister who has been consistently ignored and is eager to prove herself.  Plus, higher mountains than Czechia, and Bratislava is itself a lovely gem of a city less overrun with tourists.  Finally, the differences between Czech and Slovak languages are infinitesimal.

Posted by: logprof at June 30, 2012 04:27 PM (TgZVh)

258

"Transparently lame reasoning doesnÂ’t stand the test of time. "

Sure.  That's why Roe v. Wade was struck down...oh wait...

Posted by: Donna V. at June 30, 2012 04:30 PM (EflcN)

259

For what it's worth, Roberts probably figures he will be around another 20, perhaps 30 years.  The argument that he did a dumb thing is dumb.  He knew what he was doing.  Maybe he went over to the dark side, but the fact that a weak, even laughable, tax argument was written by a man universally acknowledged to be brilliant is the key clue. 

He intends to manage the process going forward.

Unless you want to believe he is an idiot or has become a flaming liberal, there is something a lot deeper about the decision.

I hear the purists' arguments and they make sense....if you are a purist.

Posted by: proreason at June 30, 2012 04:32 PM (9JrlY)

260 Scob @ 266 - People resort to violence when they realize the  political system no longer recognizes their concerns nor responds to them.  We are rushing headlong into the situation where a sizable portion of our population, the productive saps, increasingly feel this way.

Posted by: butch at June 30, 2012 04:32 PM (nK2Sx)

261 CJ John Roberts' decision seems to be like that of CJ John Marshall, in the Marbury v. Madison case. They both attempted to avoid a head on collision with the president, and at the same time restrain his powers in the future. In Roberts' case, he would also be restraining congress, specifically in the use of the commerce clause and the necessary and proper clause. Whether future courts hold his decision as settled precedent, as was Marbury, is a different matter.

Posted by: jbarntt at June 30, 2012 04:33 PM (UNFot)

262 Posted by: logprof at June 30, 2012 08:27 PM (TgZVh) These are the most beautiful women on Earth. I mean, goddam, logproff, let's not quibble about regional rivalries. I think the world should acknowlegdge, once and for all, that these are simply the most beautiful women on the face of the planet. There simply is nothing more to be said about this.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 04:36 PM (IoNBC)

263

http://tinyurl.com/844gz57
This is old news, but it can serve to enumerate possible outcomes henceforth. Given this administration's frequent visitor list, and Chicago-heavy personnel history, ones suspicious mind veers naturally to the issue of blandishment (and I certainly don't want to use untoward behavior for the explanation of otherwise inexplicable judicature. Wikipedia says Justice Roberts is married with two adopted kids. Sounds wholesome, thank God. No one here could believe that 7 years hence we'd see some sort of Woody Allen deal but with a Michael Jackson look-alike, or a summer trip in '13 to Pock-E-stahn instead of Maine, or a sudden interest in fostering Indonesian madrassahs. The fact remains, nonetheless, that this court not only found an unconstitutional law constitutional, it further asserted that is was the court's duty to do so (pace Rush Limbaugh): so you get the big bucks and lifetime tenure to rubber stamp a rogue Congress, who passed the bill in order to find out what was in it.

Posted by: Thorvald at June 30, 2012 04:38 PM (1V6Pv)

264 @  273 

    I will take issue with that--having been enchanted for 44 years by the same green eyed chestnut haired Irish lass who captured my heart at first glance.

     She is the standard by which others are measured.

Posted by: irongrampa at June 30, 2012 04:39 PM (SAMxH)

265 The White House has been pretty quiet the last few days.  And why aren't the libs dancing in the streets?

Posted by: mrp at June 30, 2012 04:39 PM (HjPtV)

266 Because of my young son and my fantastic wife I'm resting here at the first caravanserai on the outlaw trail . If not for them , I'd be well down the trail into lawless territory . There are millions of us , just holdin' on .

Posted by: awkward davies at June 30, 2012 04:43 PM (Jp1VY)

267 i guess i should enjoy this independence day it may be the last one that really means anything

Posted by: kj at June 30, 2012 04:43 PM (KbLGc)

268 Posted by: irongrampa at June 30, 2012 08:39 PM (SAMxH) Irongranpa, I'm the last person on this planet who'd argue that your beloved isn't the most beautiful women on Earth. You go, boy.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 04:46 PM (IoNBC)

269 I'm looking into remote real estate in Alaska. A small cabin, a wood stove, a rifle, some land, and a few bits of this and that will suit me fine.

Posted by: eman at June 30, 2012 04:46 PM (ejmiE)

270 273 There simply is nothing more to be said about this. I remember some Iranian women in college back in the 70s (before their revolution). Good Lord. But I will be happy to evaluate Czech women if you will send them to me.

Posted by: rickl at June 30, 2012 04:48 PM (sdi6R)

271 Posted by: kj at June 30, 2012 08:43 PM (KbLGc)


If O gets four more years, the Fourth of July will henceforth be celebrated as Dependence Day!

Posted by: Hrothgar (CJSC Designated Serf) at June 30, 2012 04:49 PM (i3+c5)

272 But, enough talk of women.
I am amazed any of them have the first thing to do with we, the male species.
We are generally dumb as stumps, we grow hair in funny places and tend to smell, well, gamey.

Posted by: navybrat at June 30, 2012 04:50 PM (LRY2r)

273 Posted by: eman at June 30, 2012 08:46 PM (ejmiE)


That (Alaska) is some beautiful country for sure.  Wife and I said if we were a wee bit younger, that's where we'd be headed.

Posted by: Hrothgar (CJSC Designated Serf) at June 30, 2012 04:50 PM (i3+c5)

274 That (Alaska) is some beautiful country for sure. Wife and I said if we were a wee bit younger, that's where we'd be headed. Posted by: Hrothgar (CJSC Designated Serf) at June 30, 2012 08:50 PM (i3+c5) My plan is to retire there. There are worse places to kick the bucket when your time comes.

Posted by: eman at June 30, 2012 04:56 PM (ejmiE)

275 Elon Musk of SpaceX has said that he intends to retire on Mars. I'm up for that. Although they probably wouldn't want me smoking aboard the spaceship, and going outside is not really an option.

Posted by: rickl at June 30, 2012 05:01 PM (sdi6R)

276 I live in bluish-purple Pennsylvania, and I don't have any plans to go anywhere. I'll stand and fight here if it comes to that. But I don't blame anybody who wants to leave. Nobody blames the Germans (Jewish or otherwise) who left that country in the 1930s. They saw the handwriting on the wall. We're living in "interesting times", all right.

Posted by: rickl at June 30, 2012 05:07 PM (sdi6R)

277 Although they probably wouldn't want me smoking aboard the spaceship, and going outside is not really an option.

Posted by: rickl at June 30, 2012 09:01 PM (sdi6R)

Infiltrate the alien power station and release the ice...problem solved.

Posted by: Ahnuld at June 30, 2012 05:21 PM (FIDMq)

278 We got fucked in the ass and didn't even get a reach around!

Posted by: jukin at June 30, 2012 05:30 PM (5oKRH)

279 “It’s lame,” he said. “The reasoning is transparently lame, and that doesn’t hurt, that helps. Transparently lame reasoning doesn’t stand the test of time.

"Transparently lame reasoning" allows anything and everything.  The fact that a system allow "transparently lame reasoning" merely demonstrates that that system isn't based on reason, at all.

In an inconsistent logical system any theorem is provable.  Of course, in an empathetic system no one even gives a shit about proof, to begin with.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at June 30, 2012 05:32 PM (X3lox)

280 I had a discussion with some Health Care Act supporters at a local guitar store.
They were pretty adamant about it making health care affordable and making the
"Free Riders" pay their share. I asked them if they knew how much it was going to cost them personally and they were under the impression it was going to be free. So I gave the example of a single person in their thirties making $40,000 a year paying $3700 a year after their tax rebate and still being on the hook for $4000 in co-pays. They were really flustered and said it was a lie so I pointed them to the Washington Post's very handy online health care act calculator which they promptly pulled up on a smart phone and they said they felt like they had been mislead. They were very confused and said it must be wrong. I assured them it was not and to check into it. The main supporter said he couldn't afford that so I said "It's ok, you can just pay the $2000 fine." They were very distraught and by now we had an audience so I made sure everyone had the Post web address. There was great consternation.

Posted by: Beto at June 30, 2012 05:32 PM (BAnPT)

281 I've been thinking about this and they won't force us to buy a hybrid or electric vehicle. What they will do though is what they've already been doing: force us through mileage standards to buy one of the above or face a harsh penalty/tax for "harming the environment." And they will continue in that manner with penalties/taxes thanks to Justice Roberts. All in the name of saving the Earth and the country.

Posted by: NJRob at June 30, 2012 05:39 PM (FVp26)

282 I live in the United States American Socialist Superstate.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 30, 2012 07:54 PM (2pG7H)


Things have changed.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at June 30, 2012 05:41 PM (X3lox)

283 Wasn't Yoo on the fast track for the robes til 9/11 and the torture memos put him on the lefts  permanent dog-whistle status.   Heroic service and one of the few pieces we've seen in the GWOT Lawfare but he gets speakers fees and hissed at everywhere he goes, we got to waterboard KSM +3.

OTOH Roberts is already wearing the robes.  He'd be anathema for a POS bill that should've been killed long before.  I don't think serve as the GOPs missing balls is in the job description.

Posted by: DaveA at June 30, 2012 05:44 PM (XG53A)

284 Hey, now; the Spartans got a lot of mileage out of "if".

Posted by: Phillip II of Macedonia at June 30, 2012 05:47 PM (3yCFy)

285 Sock off, while I'm thinking about it.

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler at June 30, 2012 05:47 PM (3yCFy)

286 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at June 30, 2012 05:50 PM (Xb3hu)

287 "Hopefully Mitt Romney has an adviser who sees the importance of avoiding another moderate." Oddly, that prospect does not offer me all that much hope. More chance he'll pick a squish, were I to bet on it, I would expect Mittens to do just that. Goodness, all the hope for our Republic comes down to Mittens election, and if he suddenly becomes Uber Conservative. Hope is not only on a diet, its starving itself.

Posted by: Rodney C. Johnson at June 30, 2012 05:56 PM (J7QiS)

288 Romney supposedly has Robert Bork as an advisor, FWIW.

Posted by: Baldy at June 30, 2012 05:58 PM (opS9C)

289 293 Things have changed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWH_XlMWcko

Posted by: rickl at June 30, 2012 06:17 PM (sdi6R)

290 The ruling sucks but enough trashing Roberts. How about we instead rally the morons and moronettes and actually use some tools Roberts gave us in the ruling? The states can now opt out of Medicaid expansion--that was the REAL trojan horse of the bill. And we need to politically bludgeon libs with the TAX, TAX, TAX nature of the ACA. And most of all it wakes up the low info voter. You like the left's programs? Pay more in taxes, moron!

Posted by: msmulan at June 30, 2012 06:21 PM (Vq4oV)

291 I think John Roberts made the same calculation that was made by those in the 30s who went along with FDR - the Catholic "for the poor" dogma that sold out the Church to the State.

Posted by: CRD at June 30, 2012 06:24 PM (jdOU6)

292 Things have changed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWH_XlMWcko

Posted by: rickl at June 30, 2012 10:17 PM (sdi6R)


Heh.  You know what's really weird?  The way Dylan is singing that sounds like some old Soviet underground singers.  Eerie.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at June 30, 2012 06:34 PM (X3lox)

293 303 Wooh. I didn't catch that. Damn right, that's eerie. But he's always been ahead of his time.

Posted by: rickl at June 30, 2012 06:38 PM (sdi6R)

294

Stop trashing Roberts?  LOL!   I can just see King George talking to Benedict Roberts, "Putting a tax on Americans to not buy tea?  Wow, I wish I would have thought of that!"

 

Benedict Roberts has just done more damage to the United States of America than Benedict Arnold ever did.

Posted by: doug at June 30, 2012 06:45 PM (gUGI6)

295 Yeah, that are certain adjustments that'll have to be made. I haven't ruled out the Aussies, though.

Posted by: Scobface at June 30, 2012 07:10 PM (IoNBC)

 

They have pretty strict gun control laws.

Posted by: Donna V. at June 30, 2012 06:46 PM (EflcN)

296 261 Good leaders undertand each situation, company, or environment is unique. Saw the interview with the Romney's on their campaign bus with Hannity. Either Ann Romney is an accomplished liar and outstanding actress (which I do not believe) or she genuinely feels the fear from the American public while on the campaign trail. I get the very real sense that Mitt will lead to the situation rather than being led by events. Believe the Romney's have found their mission and it is to save the republic. Believe it or not, there is a Mormon prophesy that says just that: "The time would come when the constitution and government would hang by a brittle thread and would be ready to fall into other hands but this people the latter-day saints will step forth and save it." I'm not a LDS, but if the man feels divinely driven to save the Republic, and actually works to do that and not RINO stuff......he might do great things. Yea, I know, thin reed. Desperate times, desperate hopes.

Posted by: Weirddave at June 30, 2012 06:48 PM (gvWL9)

297 Interesting, Weirddave. Very interesting.

Posted by: rickl at June 30, 2012 06:54 PM (sdi6R)

298 And this is why you Eyeore motherfuckers need to sit down and shut the fuck up.

I have had enough of you.

Shut the Fuck up and vote for dickhead Romney already.

Posted by: Courtesy Flush at June 30, 2012 10:14 PM (sw9Gv)

299 I'm really not worried about any of this shit.  There is no money, the weight of the federal debt will collapse upon itself.  In the end, everything reverts to ZERO!!

Posted by: USNA1985 at July 01, 2012 02:17 AM (U3TDy)

300 If anyone is interested, I posted a long (very long, sorry) comparison between the Roberts opinion and the dissenting opinion, over at the end of this thread. http://minx.cc/?post=330570

The formatting got hosed when I cut and pasted it from my text editor, and the last half got inflicted by an unintended overstrike code, but if you guys would like to have at it, be my guest. I think Roberts is getting a bum rap on his decision, and I explain why.

Let the abuse commence.

Posted by: Brent Glines at July 01, 2012 09:06 AM (ddvyB)

301 It is time to start talking about what changes must be made by a Constitutional Convention.

Posted by: theBuckWheat at July 01, 2012 09:24 AM (bqjXm)

302 Can't John and I both be right? Can't it be an atrocious political decision that gave us something that is better than the worst case we feared and can be very useful to a better court? To get a better court requires political action and success in November. And if we don't prevail politically, tax mandates will be among the least of our concerns. Let me put it this way: just because you lose a big battle is no reason to surrender the territory you did gain. So I am not being optimistic. I am reading the opinion for what it says, what it did not say, and how it can be used for the good in the future. IF the politics goes right.

Posted by: Randy Barnett at July 01, 2012 10:24 PM (ewEMA)

303 E=Mc2

Posted by: Emmett L. Brown Ph.D at July 04, 2012 04:39 PM (PEwU1)

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