1 I fear that the deal we will end up with will be another one which kicks the can down the road to just before the 2014 mid-terms. Read my blog small craft advisory chronicles at blogspot.com

2 Whatever the House sends to the Senate, it should have copyright reform language in it.

3 Who's got a match?

4 Time to throw a wrench in the machine and let it blow up.

5 Yes give Obama his goddam taxes, already. And as the economy gets worse and UE goes up in 2013, WE can blame Obama.

6 Ace, At what point do you, personally, decide that Boehner can no longer be speaker? At what point do you publicly advocate for it? I'm trying to figure out how current leadership represents anyone in the GOP coalition. We've been taken hostage by consultants.

7 Rand Paul favors the "vote present on Dem-raised taxes" option.  Whoa.  When did he become a RINO? (kidding)

8 Whatever the House sends to the Senate, it should have copyright reform language in it.

Suck it, Mickey.

9 And as the economy gets worse and UE goes up in 2013, WE can blame Obama.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 12, 2012 12:00 PM (s5m4O)

YOU can blame Obama.  The MSM will blame us.

10 Ugh...I'm in the computer lab during finals week, and I can hear a couple of undergrads parroting their Marxist indoctrination about "dominant ideologies appearing neutral".  Do they even listen to themselves/have any self-awareness?

11 I can't believe we're at the point where nickel and diming is the last great hope of our country.

Fuck this shit.  Burn it down.  Start over.

12 Conservatives know piece work from wages....

13 I'm trying to figure out how current leadership represents anyone in the GOP coalition.

It represents the Charlie Crist/Lisa Murkowski/David Frum/David Brooks wing of the party.

14 Do.Nothing. Let the rates return to their permanent level. Let the Sequestration occur.

15 Ace won't answer you because, frankly, your question is childish. We can get rid of anyone. We're stuck with Boehner. Talking about changing Speakers is a pipe dream.

16 1 I fear that the deal we will end up with will be another one which kicks the can down the road to just before the 2014 mid-terms. Read my blog small craft advisory chronicles at blogspot.com Posted by: Damon at December 12, 2012 11:57 AM (3q4O6) ------- Do you have any tips for a blog? I think AllenG is thinking of starting one.

17 We will never get a deal better than doing nothing. Never.

18 YOU can blame Obama. The MSM will blame us. They are going to regardless of what we do/don't do.

19 Wait, wasn't that what Obama asked for initially? This option is just Let It Burn by giving the dems what they want, right?

20

Posted by: soothsayer at December 12, 2012 12:00 PM (s5m4O)

 

The problem is that the Statisticians who make the benchmarks, and the Media, are complicit in telling LIES about the economy.

 

If we measured Unemployment as they did during the Great Depresion, then Unemployment is WORSE than during the Depresion...

 

If you measure 'growth' by GDP, then any TRUE measurment must take into account both Inflation, the the devaluation of the currency by which you measure, and in that case, we have never come out of recesion, and are in a depresion...

 

The Media, and Government, are complicit in attempting the 'Perceptions IS Reality' model of economic growth... where if we 'think' the economy is doing well we'll maintain them in power.... even when by any fair measurment, our economy is horrible...

21 @ 15 your stuck with Boehner ?  You need a good keel hauling on an Aircraft carrier in the North Atlantic...
Wake up Neo...

22 but we will not prevent them from becoming law because we do not want to risk a recession next year Who is saying that tax increases are the way to prevent a recession?!

23

Well, my approach to LIB is actually to strip off all the wealth I can from America's dying husk, so another year of economic stability helps me.  I will be OK with whatever compromise they are able to get if it will mitigage the coming disaster, or at least put it off a little.

 

 

24 Let it burn then we can toast marshmallows

25 and I can hear a couple of undergrads parroting their Marxist indoctrination about "dominant ideologies appearing neutral".

Free Shit is the opiate of the masses.

26 Let it burn. There is no cliff.  It is a slope and can be dealt with in January, with Boehner out as Speaker. Open up the talks to the public.  Get some freaking balls and call the JEF out every day.  Man, I hate DC politics.

27 2 minutes until DOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!

28 I fear that the deal we will end up with will be another one which kicks the can down the road to just before the 2014 mid-terms. Not to fret, with my mad skillz, we'll postpone until just after!

29 All politicians should drown in lakes of blood, forever gasping for breath, forever slipping under the surface of an infinite lake of hatred and madness

30 >>>Posted by: Hopeless at December 12, 2012 12:01 PM (xOE6Y)

At what point do you start your own blog, gather your own readership, propagate it as a sole means of income, and then listen to whiney commenters question the whats and the hows of what your posts *should* be in a medium you built in a highly competitive industry?

31 Boehner will bring the sacred DEFENSE COW out to pasture....
That bloated bovine needs a diet...

32

We oppose this bill and we will both vote no. We imagine most other Republicans will do the same. But it will be brought up for a House vote, and we expect enough House Republicans will join the Democrats in voting for this policy that we will avoid an end-of-year disaster. We will oppose President Obama’s tax increases, but we will not prevent them from becoming law because we do not want to risk a recession next year. The President will get his tax increases when Democrats [and a handful or two of House Republicans] vote for them now, and we will continue to press for spending cuts and tax reform in 2013.”

 

I don't like that.  I don't like the idea of any Republicans giving the dog-eating retard political cover.  "We oppose this bill and we will both vote no but we will not stand in the president's way.  We will vote "present" and allow the Obama Tax Bill to pass, as president Obama has continually demanded." is more to my taste.

 

Why do I keep hearing Admiral Akbar's voice in my head?

33 I would add the clarion call that "Sequestration was Barky's idea".  Every time a GOPer opens his piehole, say it loud.  Say it proud. 

34 >Let it burn then we can toast marshmallows

Posted by: Rain of lead at December 12, 2012 12:08 PM (RUf/p)

the regime will outlaw marshmallows due to the choking hazard combined with high sugar content

35 Wait, wasn't that what Obama asked for initially? This option is just Let It Burn by giving the dems what they want, right?


----

Exactly but we..... errrrr ... the Republicans.... have to have a media narrative to go with this.   This bill needs to be named the Obama Fair Tax Act.  Mitch & Bitch need to give speches congratulating the Prezy and how elections matter and hearing the will of the American people.  The leadership needs to congratulate the President on signing day about his his parties peice of legislation.

Hang the administration with its own rope.

36 I would add the clarion call that "Sequestration was Barky's idea". Every time a GOPer opens his piehole, say it loud. Say it proud. Posted by: eureka! LiFBer at December 12, 2012 12:10 PM (HPRku) Obama has wanted the end to the bush tax cuts and sequestration all along. There is no deals.

37 If there is any deal, the tax rates MUST be locked in permanently, requiring a change of law to fix them. If the remaining rates are left to possibly go up in another year or two, then those rich people making more than 75K/year will be attacked.

38 So how is "Option C" different from the usual Republican strategy of "cave now, beg for a concession later"?

39
>>>Why do I keep hearing Admiral Akbar's voice in my head?

It was a trap. We are already in it.

LiB

40 " ...we do not want to risk a recession next year"

I'd like to risk ending the D'ohbama Depression this year.

41 If there is any deal, the tax rates MUST be locked in permanently, requiring a change of law to fix them. Exactly. Uncertainty is killing investment. Higher taxes slow growth, uncertainty prevents it.

42 If nothing happens (and I can't imagine the GOP not giving in) the economy goes directly into a recession now instead of sliding into it with more Obamacare, Dodd-Frank and over regulation in late 2013. Does the MFM blame anyone but Carter (when it is brought up at all) for double digit, well, everything? No.

43 Boehner should schedule debate on this with a bunch of amendments

44 This sounds like "my shoes are on fire and my ass is catchin'" knd of legislating.

45 Most importantly, Boehner needs to quit negotiating with himself. When Harry Reid puts some proposals in writing, negotiations can begin.

46 This sounds like "my shoes are on fire and my ass is catchin'" knd of legislating. Posted by: sophistahick at December 12, 2012 12:15 PM (UhXzR) It's been awhile since I've seen any other kind.

47 We need to roll spending back to Eisenhower-era levels.

48 We're running out of road.

49

Both parties have muddied the water so badly that no one knows exactly what is in the works now.  We'll probably get something very similar to what we've always gotten;  the barbed cock of DC jammed up our asses.

 

We are no longer a representative government.

50 Obama has stupidly allowed impending tax hikes to loom over the economy during most of his administration. A one year postponement may stave off some negative effects but won't produce any positive ones.

51 6 minutes past 12:12pm on 12/12/12 and we're still here. Fuck. SMODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!

52 Sir, Boehner's a pussy.

53 Ah! That's right! Boner can walk out defense cuts. A cut Obama can get behind!

54 This will do no good.

The President does not give a shit he will demagogue whatever the Republicans try to do and the MSM will back his version.

GROW A FUCKING BACKBONE AND FIGHT

55

I like this strategy.  I didn't even know the Senate had pased a clean bill like that already.  So call their bulff and pass it.  There is nothing Harry Reid can do if the House passes it with no amendments and sends it to the President.  That's exactly what the House should do.  This has to be done before the end of this session of Congress though.

 

Then the House and Senate Republicans leadership should have a press conference in which they announce that "we have given the President exactly what he campaigned for - nothing more, nothing less.  We have saved the Bush middle class tax cuts.  A few weeks is simply not enough time to reach a  bigger deal on spending and other tax reform issues, and the Constitution requires that Congress deliberate on such matters fully and in public hearings and meetings.  And next year we will do that,  to make sure the government has a budget and a plan for real deficit reduction."

 

I see no downside to this scenario except that fools on the Right will call for Boehner's removal for agreeing to a tax increase.

56 So, now we're picking through the bones. Bonepickers. It was a smelly job then, also. Bonepickers were not allowed in saloons, or Starbucks.

57 Stock up, load up, hunker down.

Washington's connection to the people is a one way street, and not in the direction that it was intended.

The scumbags in both parties aren't talking to us, and they damn sure haven't been listening for decades.

Their reality vastly different and increasingly remote relative to the average citizen.

I don't know of a viable way to take back the country until it's pick up the pieces time.

And that day is coming sooner than most will admit.  

58 Posted by: Jones in CO at December 12, 2012 12:17 PM (8sCoq)

That's bacon smothered with awesome sauce right there.

59 We need to readdress the nuclear option, just because it sounds cool.

60 I guess Damon is the new 2-centSteve, huh.

61 47 We need to roll spending back to Eisenhower-era levels. Posted by: Jones in CO at December 12, 2012 12:17 PM (8sCoq) Try Washington-Era...

62 I don't know of a viable way to take back the country until it's pick up the pieces time.

And that day is coming sooner than most will admit.

Posted by: ontherocks at December 12, 2012 12:20 PM (aZ6ew)

I hear Quentin Tarentino and Jamie Foxx have a plan.

63 6 minutes past 12:12pm on 12/12/12 and we're still here. 12/21/12 is what you're pinning your hopes on. Today is just some sort of Chinese celebration of Tom Brady.

64 So, another legislative plan that sounds like another too-clever-by-half not-a-surrender. Pardon my cynicism. You get used to a certain level of pointless tomfoolery from these worthless f*cks after a while.

65 I love the smell of the last shining beacon of freedom and the hope of the Earth burning in the morning.

66 Give Obama his taxes, but keep the debt ceiling where it is. Any gained tax revenue goes to paying down the debt. A real 'balanced approach'. Shove it up Barry's ass. Without a raised debt ceiling, raising taxes doesn't benefit Obama because he won't have the room, short of negotiating with the house to cut other things, to try to spend more money delivering the goodies he promised to the Free Shit Army. And even after negotiated cuts, any new spending still would have to go through the house. Use the debt ceiling to point out Obama's lie about paying down the debt, when all he wants is another blank check.

67 Today is the celebration of the Lady of Guadalupe.

68 Here's an idea. Why doesn't Boehner ask for some land for peace?

69

Whatever the House sends to the Senate, it should have copyright reform language in it.

 

Hah! Yeah, that would be awesome. But no way. The GOP fired the dude who wrote a report suggesting that just for writing a report suggesting that.

 

You might as well say "The MPAA/RIAA should just abolish themselves". Yeah, they should. But they won't.

70

I don't understand conservatives who refuse to accept reality.  If you want the best deal for the American taxpayers, lawmakers making the hard choices, compromises on policy without compromising principle and an all-around functioning government, adopt the jwest plan immediately.

 

Raise congressional pay to $500K with a bonus of an additional $500K if a basic goal  is met.  This goal would be:

 

Pass a budget each year that is balanced using 20% of the previous year's GDP.

 

Senate pay would base at $750K with a $750 bonus, VP at $2 million and President at $4 million.

 

On top of the pay, congressmen would receive a minimum of 25 hours/yr (max 200/yr, based on distance from D.C.) of light jet time from NetJets.  Staff allowance would be double today's rate.

 

This simple fix would save actual taxpayers (us) well over a trillion each year.

 

As conservatives, we need to grassroots this into the mainstream.

71 67 Today is the celebration of the Lady of Guadalupe.

Posted by: Daybrother SMOD says apocalypse now at December 12, 2012 12:22 PM (+paCV)

There's only one? (Yes, I denounce myself.)

72 I want to head to the Outer Rim.  there are these people call "Browncoats" doing things the right way...whatever that is.

Calgon take me away...

73 6 minutes past 12:12pm on 12/12/12 and we're still here.

Don't fret it's only 9:23 here in Cali. You know the apocalypse is going to start here.

74 Ah yes, I'll take the Sh*t Sandwich with mustard AND mayo please!

75 Doom? A conundrum, a riddle if you will.

76 GROW A FUCKING BACKBONE AND FIGHT

I LIKE TO MAKE COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS STATEMENTS IN ALL CAPS TOO.

77

We need to roll spending back to Eisenhower-era levels.

 

Hell, we need to roll all of Washington back to Ike levels.

78 OT:  Over at Drudge.

New Tarantino movie uses the N word (you have to capitalize the "N" or else it's racist)hundreds of times = Big Biden Deal!

Jamie Foxx brags about killing white people in new Tarantino movie = No Big Biden Deal!

79 I want to head to the Outer Rim. there are these people call "Browncoats" doing things the right way...whatever that is. ewwww, sounds sort of dirty

80 Eisenhower's 1960 budget was 92.2 billion, with a 300 million dollar surplus

81 I go with Obama on this:  The Rethugs will cave.

82

Uh.... its a TAX bill... so how does it ORIGIONATE in the Senate?

 

Pesky Constitution...

83
So, another legislative plan that sounds like another too-clever-by-half not-a-surrender.
Posted by: Brother Cavil




Well, the writer of that piece was a senior Bush II economic advisor and a congressional staffer for a decade before that, so -- yeah -- pretty much.

84 78 OT: Over at Drudge.

NewTarantino movie uses the N word (you have to capitalize the "N" or else it's racist)hundreds of times = Big Biden Deal!

Jamie Foxx brags about killing white people in new Tarantino movie = No Big Biden Deal!

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 12, 2012 12:26 PM (Hx5uv)

Ah yes, the old Hutus and Tutsis gambit. Do you suppose that Tarentino is so fucking ignorant that he thinks "his" head wouldn't be on a pike?

85 Here's a thought the House passes a budget sends it to the Senate and then Sessions demands every day that the budget be debated.

86 Oh, and the only 'nuclear option' I want to hear about is one that involves an actual nuclear exchange between the House and Senate. Which could conceivably lead to C-SPAN being entertaining for the first time, ever.

87 Ah yes, the old Hutus and Tutsis gambit. Do you suppose that Tarentino is so fucking ignorant that he thinks "his" head wouldn't be on a pike? --- He won Round 1 of this with Spike Lee about a decade ago, so I think he thought he would win.

88 Tarantino isn't stupid, just ambitious. He understands popular culture. This racist film will be very very popular for that reason, because it is so very racist

89 If Obama throws in several free haircuts ("stylings"), Boehner will give him everything he wants-and more. 

90  Give Obama his taxes, but keep the debt ceiling where it is. Any gained tax revenue goes to paying down the debt. A real 'balanced approach'. Shove it up Barry's ass.

Without a raised debt ceiling, raising taxes doesn't benefit Obama because he won't have the room, short of negotiating with the house to cut other things, to try to spend more money delivering the goodies he promised to the Free Shit Army. And even after negotiated cuts, any new spending still would have to go through the house.

Use the debt ceiling to point out Obama's lie about paying down the debt, when all he wants is another blank check.

Posted by: Blue Falcon in Boston at December 12, 2012 12:22 PM (KCvsd)

 

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

 

Whatever happens, Boehner is going to cave on raising the debt ceiling.  He's burning the midnight oil writing excuses for doing  so.  The debt ceiling is really the only thing Dear Leader is interested in.  When (not "if") he gets that, congress won't have a choice but to raise taxes.

91 "Ace won't answer you because, frankly, your question is childish. " He is ace. He will not cry, so we cry for him. _

92 Today is the celebration of the Lady of Guadalupe. Posted by: Daybrother SMOD says apocalypse now at December 12, 2012 12:22 PM (+paCV) My dad was always sad that the Catholic Church never publicly and with much fanfare attributed the downfall of communism in Russia to all those rosaries people said for that very purpose. As OLofG is the Patroness of the Americas, mebbe we should ask her to help route the devils from our government...'course there'd be no one left running the joint, but,hey..

93 The President does not give a shit he will demagogue whatever the Republicans try to do and the MSM will back his version.

---

I have seen the future and it sucks.

94 >Jamie Foxx brags about killing white people in new Tarantino movie = No Big Biden Deal!

Foxx hosted SNL last week. I only made it through a  minute or two of his monologue before I had to change the channel. He started off with 'black is the new white' and then segued into "Django" where he said 'I kill allllllllllllllll the white people in the mov-'

CLICK

95 Don't know how many times this needs to be said.

Give Obama exactly what he wants: higher taxes. Just don't do it in perpetuity, because perpetuity is what the Democratic machine as a whole want to see. They want a permanent lock-in of all that tasty new money.

The Bush tax cuts came with a built-in "sunset" date.

Do the same thing with the Obama tax hikes. An expiration date. INSIST upon it.

96 I have decided to adopt the Jedi religion because it makes more sense than believing the Republicans will do the right thing.

97 I have seen the future and it sucks. Posted by: WalrusRex at December 12, 2012 12:32 PM (Hx5uv) I wonder what the outcome will be with several thousand battle hardened troops walking the streets unemployed after sequestration?

98 Don't pass anything until the senate passes a budget.

99 88 Tarantino isn't stupid, just ambitious. He understands popular culture. This racist film will be very very popular for that reason, because it is so very racist

Posted by: Thunderb at December 12, 2012 12:29 PM (Dnbau)

I have some stupid lib relatives that will go to this movie because of its' sweet sweet social relevance. Stupid relatives. Stupid latte-swilling knit cap relatives. If they go to the downtown theater, I hope they don't get raped and robbed by the oppressed class. I'm talking about the male relatives.

100 Tarantino isn't stupid, just ambitious. He understands popular culture. This racist film will be very very popular for that reason, because it is so very racist

---

And at the same time, anti-racist!  It's like two movies in one!

101 the only thing the senate will pass is gas

102 7 Rand Paul favors the "vote present on Dem-raised taxes" option. Whoa. When did he become a RINO? (kidding) Posted by: pep at December 12, 2012 12:01 PM (USJNU) I actually favor doing nothing. I hear all the time from the know-nothing's about how wonderful things were under Clinton and if only we could go back to those days. Well, then let them have it. Rand Paul's idea above is my plan B. I've called and written my reps AND crying Boner telling them the same thing. Makes no difference apparently.

103 Does anyone know how this new Fed stimulus is suppose to work?

104 > Tarantino isn't stupid, just ambitious. He understands popular culture. This racist film will be very very popular for that reason, because it is so very racist

Posted by: Thunderb at December 12, 2012 12:29 PM (Dnbau)

THIS is highly perceptive

"Django" as a proxy for the country's first (kinda) black President, now free from the chains of history, giving Whitey some long overdue payback

105 91 "Ace won't answer you because, frankly, your question is childish. "

He is ace.

He will not cry, so we cry for him.
_

Posted by: Subotai - Thief and Archer (non Longbow) - at December 12, 2012 12:31 PM (RuUvx)

Golf clap for the obscure Conan reference [clap clap clap].

106 @98 your a student of practicality, that ancient art os common sense.

107 >>>I have decided to adopt the Jedi religion because it makes more sense than believing the Republicans will do the right thing.

What's your midichlorian count?

108 The Senate passed this as a way the Rs could capitulate to them.

109 Give Obama his taxes, but keep the debt ceiling where it is. Any gained tax revenue goes to paying down the debt. A real 'balanced approach'. Shove it up Barry's ass.

---

I see that Obama plan to use 75% of the new revenue brought in by tax increases on The Evil Rich for new spending. 

110 >Golf clap for the obscure Conan reference [clap clap clap].

Posted by: joncelli at December 12, 2012 12:35 PM (RD7QR)

now I want to make an even more obscure Conan reference, from a minor character

111 @76

The point is the GOP leadership seems to right out of the gate be ready to give the President what he originally asked for, the President sensing weakness and political advantage has decided to go balls to wall and basically ask the GOP to commit suicide.

So instead of the GOP saying go fuck yourself and the horse you rode in on they are trying to come up with mickey mouse shit to throw out there and hope the President takes mercy on them and agrees to compromise, something this President has never done.

You either have principles you are willing to articulate and fight for or you don't.

This deal shows that the GOP cares more about optics than about advancing any principle.

Because what is the conservative principle for allowing taxes to be hiked on the most productive citizens when you know that doing so will make not one bit of difference?

112 THIS is highly perceptive
"Django" as a proxy for the country's first (kinda) black President, now free from the chains of history, giving Whitey some long overdue payback

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 12, 2012 12:35 PM (8sCoq)

Imagine a life where you always have "them" to blame for being a fucking loser. Or, imagine being a Democrat in general.

113 Sounds good to me. One year: UE up, idiots learn debt-ceiling is not impacted by "the rich" paying more in taxes, and a few more taxpayer funded vacations for the Imperial Family publicized while the average Joe is trying to make his car payment. Next Christmas might not be so warm and fuzzy for Obama.

114 >>As conservatives, we need to grassroots this into the mainstream.

You'd need a constitutional amendment for that.  IIRC, no member of Congress' pay can be reduced during his or her term.  That, and I think they all have to be paid the same amount.

Nice idea, though.

115 I see that Obama plan to use 75% of the new revenue brought in by tax increases on The Evil Rich for new spending.

75%?  Are you sure that's not 117.5%?

116 >>That, and I think they all have to be paid the same amount.

I mean members of the same chamber.

117 Option D: Vagina pillows for everyone.

118 I don't know why they don't just make the Bush era tax cuts permanent. Economic uncertainty does not drive consumer spending. In fact, I'd venture from my own experience, it does just the opposite. I run a razor thin budget, year after year. The almost majority of people who work for a living are due a little more gratitude then having an economic football passed around every couple years, with the possibility that in the end, they'll get it up the @ss.

119 OT/
Apparently Bret Baier's 5 year old son is going in for another in a series of heart surgeries and could use some prayers.

120 So here's another thing that Boehner should be doing, but isn't doing:

Shining a huge spotlight on Obama's untrustworthiness as a counterparty.

Boehner should go hold a press conference on the sidewalk outside the White House.

He should say, "Folks, I've seen this movie before. Here's how it ends. A deal will get hammered out behind closed doors inside the White House. The President will tell me I can go negotiate with my House members over it. Then after I've worked hard to secure support for the deal he and I originally agreed to, he is then going to pull the rug out and propose a different, radically worse deal at the last minute. Because that's exactly what the President did last time around, in the debt ceiling deal. That's _exactly_ what he did."

Boehner should let that sink in for a second and then say that he is through with private negotiations with Obama, because Obama has proven himself not to be reliable in those negotiations. All future negotiations will be live, in public and on camera. With whiteboards and math.

Obama HATES math. And squirms when he has to defend his budget ideas live and in real time and in public. Make him do what he dislikes. He'll back down.

121 118 I don't know why they don't just make the Bush era tax cuts permanent. Economic uncertainty does not drive consumer spending. In fact, I'd venture from my own experience, it does just the opposite. I run a razor thin budget, year after year.

The almost majority of people who work for a living are due a little more gratitude then having an economic football passed around every couple years, with the possibility that in the end, they'll get it up the @ss.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at December 12, 2012 12:43 PM (feFL6)

Maybe time to bring back the Chicken?

122 Shining a huge spotlight on Obama's untrustworthiness as a counterparty.

---

That would be racist.

123 No matter what plan is voted in or not voted on, the American producers are fucked.  Remember.  The producers are no longer the majority.  Politicians play to majorities.

124 Obama HATES math. And squirms when he has to defend his budget ideas live and in real time and in public. Make him do what he dislikes. He'll back down. --- The media will call Boehner racist for insisting that Obama do math, much like that fat fuck Jason Whitlock complained about being "summoned" to the Bill O'Reilly show to have the chance of a rebuttal when Bill ripped into him.

125 Also, do we want to make taxes MORE progressive?

126 I second not passing anything until the Senate passes a budget. It's literally against the law for the Senate to not pass a budget, too bad you can't count on the government to arrest itself.

127 123 No matter what plan is voted in or not voted on, the American producers are fucked. Remember. The producers are no longer the majority. Politicians play to majorities.

Posted by: Soona at December 12, 2012 12:45 PM (YfIgk)

Apparently the majority is an Unholy Alliance of guilty, self-hating whites and resentful people of uh, color. This race and class thing that the emperor has plugged into has permanent legs. The only thing left seems to be self protection. There is being fucked, and there is bending over to get it.

I hope to weather this debacle.

128 Buchanan is one of my heroes; he saw this coming 20 years ago. He warned the nation that one day all these immigrants from different races are going to tilt this country against whites, and whites are no longer the majority. I canÂ’t believe this day is upon us. If anything, this realization should be the thing to mourn more than this election of Obama. I doubt any candidate would be elected into office who isnÂ’t a Democrat or at least favorable to the various minorities that are overrunning this country. AmericaÂ’s downfall is a runaway train colliding head-first with destiny. Who can stop it now? No one.

129

Yup... need a Constitutional Amendment that Tax changes on the people do NOT go into effect for at least ONE Year after they pass...

 

And especialy that RETROACTIVE Tax changes, are also Ex Post Facto Laws.... (like in California...)

130

^{Let's hold hands and go over the cliff.  Spending MUST be cut.  Here's a great email I received yesterday.  Long but worth it...}

 
<sup>Current: Associate Professional Specialist and Concurrent Associate Professor of Law at University of Notre Dame.
 
Past:  Director at Gigot Center for Entrepreneurial Studies, Associate Director and Clinical Professor at University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.
 
Education: University of Notre Dame Law School, University of Notre Dame.
 
Summary:  She has 20+ years' experience in curriculum and other program development and delivery.
 
#########################################
 Laura Hollis
November 8, 2012

I am already reading so many pundits and other talking heads analyzing the disaster that was this year's elections. I am adding my own ten cents. Here goes:
 
1. We are outnumbered
 
We accurately foresaw the enthusiasm, the passion, the commitment, the determination, and the turnout. Married women, men, independents, Catholics, evangelicals - they all went for Romney in percentages as high or higher than the groups which voted for McCain in 2008. It wasn't enough.</sup>

 

^{What we saw in the election was a tipping point: we are now at a place where there are legitimately fewer Americans who desire a free republic with a free people than there are those who think the government should give them stuff. There are fewer of us who believe in the value of free exchange and
free enterprise. There are fewer of us who do not wish to demonizesuccessful people in order to justify taking from them. We are outnumbered.
For the moment. It's just that simple.}

 
^{2. It wasn't the candidate(s)
 
Some are already saying, "Romney was the wrong guy"; "He should have picked Marco Rubio to get Florida/Rob Portman to get Ohio/Chris Christie to get [someplace else]." With all due respect, these assessments are incorrect.
Romney ran a strategic and well-organized campaign. Yes, he could have hit harder on Benghazi. But for those who would have loved that, there are those who would have found it distasteful. No matter what tactic you could point to that Romney could have done better, it would have been spun in a way that was detrimental to his chances.}

 

^{Romney would have been an excellent president, and Ryan was an inspired choice. No matter who we ran this year,
they would have lost. See #1, above.
 
3. It's the culture, stupid!
 
We have been trying to fight this battle every four years at the voting booth. It is long past time we admit that is not where the battle really is.}

 

^{We abdicated control of the culture - starting back in the 1960s. And now our largest primary social institutions - education, the media, Hollywood (entertainment) have become really nothing more than an assembly line for
cranking out reliable little Leftists. Furthermore, we have allowed the government to undermine the institutions that instill good character -
marriage, the family, communities, schools, our churches.}

 

^{So, here we are at least two full generations later - we are reaping what we have sown. It took nearly fifty years to get here; it will take another fifty years to get back. But it starts with the determination to reclaim education, the media,
and the entertainment business. If we fail to do that, we can kiss every election goodbye from here on out. And much more.
 
4. America has become a nation of adolescents
 
The real loser in this election was adulthood: Maturity. Responsibility. The understanding that liberty must be accompanied by self-restraint.}

 

^{Obama is a spoiled child, and the behavior and language of his followers and their advertisements throughout the campaign makes it clear how many of them are, as well.}

 

^{Romney is a grown-up. Romney should have won. Those of us who expected him to win assumed that voters would act like grownups. Because if we were a nation of grownups, he would have won.
 
But what did win? Sex. Drugs. Bad language. Bad manners. Vulgarity. Lies. Cheating. Name-calling. Finger-pointing. Blaming. And irresponsible spending. This does not bode well.}

 

^{People grow up one of two ways: either they choose to, or circumstances force them to. The warnings are all there,
whether it is the looming economic disaster, or the inability of the government to respond to crises like Hurricane Sandy, or the growing strength and brazenness of our enemies.}

 

<sup>American voters stick their fingers in their ears and say, "Lalalalalala, I can't hear you." It is unpleasant to
think about the circumstances it will take to force Americans to grow up. It is even more unpleasant to think about Obama at the helm when those circumstances arrive.
 
5. Yes, there is apparently a Vagina Vote
 
It's the subject matter of another column in its entirety to point out, one by one, all of the inconsistencies and hypocrisies of the Democrats this year. Suffice it to say that the only "war on women" was the one waged by the Obama campaign, which sexualized and objectified women, featuring them
dressed up like vulvas at the Democrat National Convention, appealing to their "lady parts," comparing voting to losing your virginity with Obama, trumpeting the thrills of destroying our children in the womb (and using our daughters in commercials to do so), and making Catholics pay for their birth control. For a significant number of women, this was appealing. It might
call into question the wisdom of the Nineteenth Amendment, but for the fact that large numbers of women (largely married) used their "lady smarts" instead. Either way, Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton are rolling over in their graves.
 
6. It's not about giving up on "social issues"
 
No Republican candidate should participate in a debate or go out on the stump without thorough debate prep and a complete set of talking points that they stick to. This should start with a good grounding in biology and a reluctance to purport to know the will of God. (Thank you, Todd and
Richard.)

That said, we do not hold the values we do because they garner votes. We hold the values we do because we believe that they are time-tested principles without which a civilized, free and prosperous society is not possible.
 
We defend the unborn because we understand that a society which views some lives as expendable is capable of viewing all lives as expendable.</sup>

^{We defend family - mothers, fathers, marriage, children - because history makes it quite clear that societies without intact families quickly descend into anarchy and barbarism, and we have plenty of proof of that in our inner cities where marriage is infrequent and unwed motherhood approaches 80
percent.}

 

^{When Roe v. Wade was decided in 1973, many thought that the abortion cause was lost. Forty years later, ultrasound technology has demonstrated the inevitable connection between science and morality. More Americans than ever define themselves as "pro-life." What is tragic is that tens of millions of children have lost their lives while Americans figure
out what should have been obvious before. There is no "giving up" on social issues. There is only the realization that we have to fight the battle on other fronts. The truth will win out in the end.}  

 

^{7. Obama does not have a mandate. And he does not need one.
 
I have to laugh - bitterly - when I read conservative pundits trying to assure us that Obama "has to know" that he does not have a mandate, and so he will have to govern from the middle. I don't know what they're smoking.}

^{Obama does not care that he does not have a mandate. He does not view himself as being elected (much less re-elected) to represent individuals. He views himself as having been re-elected to complete the "fundamental transformation" of America, the basic structure of which he despises. Expect
much more of the same - largely the complete disregard of the will of half the American public, his willingness to rule by executive order, and the utter inability of another divided Congress to rein him in. Stanley Kurtz has it all laid out here.
 
8. The Corrupt Media is the enemy
 
Too strong? I don't think so. I have been watching the media try to throw elections since at least the early 1990s. In 2008 and again this year, we saw the media cravenly cover up for the incompetence and deceit of this President, while demonizing a good, honorable and decent man with lies and
smears. This is on top of the daily barrage of insults that conservatives (and by that I mean the electorate, not the politicians) must endure at the hands of this arrogant bunch of elitist snobs. Bias is one thing. What we observed with Benghazi was professional malpractice and fraud. They need to go.}

 

^{Republicans, Libertarians and other conservatives need to be prepared to play hardball with the Pravda press from here on out. And while we are at it, to defend those journalists of whatever political stripe (JakeTapper, Sharyl Atkisson, Eli Lake) who actually do their jobs. As well as Fox News
and talk radio. Because you can fully expect a re-elected Obama to try to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine in term 2.
 
9. Small business and entrepreneurs will be hurt the worst
 
For all the blather about "Wall Street versus Main Street," Obama's statist agenda will unquestionably benefit the biggest corporations which - as with the public sector unions - are in the best position to make campaign donations, hire lobbyists, and get special exemptions carved out from Obama's health care laws, his environmental regulations, his labor laws. It
will be the small business, the entrepreneur, and the first-time innovators who will be crushed by their inability to compete on a level playing field.
 
10. America is more polarized than ever; and this time it's personal
 
I've been following politics for a long time, and it feels different this time. Not just for me. I've received messages from other conservatives who are saying the same thing: there is little to no tolerance left out there for those who are bringing this country to its knees - even when they have been our friends. It isn't just about "my guy" versus "your guy." It is my
view of America versus your view of America - a crippled, hemorrhaging, debt-laden, weakened and dependent America that I want no part of and resent being foisted on me. I no longer have any patience for stupidity, blindness, or vulgarity, so with each dumb "tweet" or FB post by one of my happily
lefty comrades, another one bites the dust, for me. Delete.}

 

^{What does this portend for a divided Congress? I expect that Republicans will be demoralized and chastened for a short time. But I see them in a bad position. Americans in general want Congress to work together. But many do not want Obama's policies, and so Republicans who support them will be
toast. Good luck, guys.
 
11. It's possible that America just has to hit rock bottom
 
I truly believe that most Americans who voted for Obama have no idea what they are in for. Most simply believe him when he says that all he really wants is for the rich to pay "a little bit more." So reasonable! Who could argue with that except a greedy racist?
 
America is on a horrific bender. Has been for some time now. The warning signs of our fiscal profligacy and culture of lack of personal responsibility are everywhere - too many to mention. We need only look at other countries which have gone the route we are walking now to see what is in store.
 
For the past four years - but certainly within the past campaign season - we have tried to warn Americans. Too many refuse to listen, even when all of the events that have transpired during Obama's presidency - unemployment, economic stagnation, skyrocketing prices, the depression of the dollar, the collapse of foreign policy, Benghazi, hopelessly inept responses to natural disasters - can be tied directly to Obama's statist philosophies, and his decisions.
 
What that means, I fear, is that they will not see what is coming until the whole thing collapses. That is what makes me so sad today. I see the country I love headed toward its own "rock bottom," and I cannot seem to reach those who are taking it there.
 
#############################################
 
In MHO, if we cannot regain control of those critical institutions ("that instill good character - marriage, the family, communities, schools, our churches"), that Ms. Hollis enumerated, and rekindle the rational, sane and
conservative values they once represented,.....}

 

^{WE ARE DOOMED TO CONTINUE THIS SLIDE INTO A LEFTIST, PROGRESSIVE, LIBERAL LED DECAY and ULTIMATE}

^{COLLAPSE.
 
Please share this with as many as you can!!}

  

131 Why does anyone want to "fix" the AMT! It mostly affects high blue states where Rich Obama voters love them some big tax deductions. F them!

132 yay. now, about that budget. You realize that Obama may be the first 8 year president to never have passed an honest budget? This is a big f'n deal, he's using porkulus year 4 as his $1T stash to pay off his donors, yet again.

133 The point is the GOP leadership seems to right out of the gate be ready to give the President what he originally asked for, the President sensing weakness and political advantage has decided to go balls to wall and basically ask the GOP to commit suicide.

You just used more words to again say absolutely nothing.

It's getting fucking annoying that the people screaming the loudest to FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT DON'T GIVE AN INCH are also the quietest with regards to what exactly should be done and how.

Do congressional Republicans care about "optics"?  Of course they do.  They're elected officials- they have to.  What principle is served by pissing off constituents who will retaliate by handing the House back to the Dems, complete with a 60 vote Dem Senate majority?

134 It's literally against the law for the Senate to not pass a budget, too bad you can't count on the government to arrest itself.

Posted by: JDTAY at December 12, 2012 12:47 PM (a0nis)

 

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

 

I wish America had the balls to have an armed march to the Capital and WH.  But, alas, we'll just whimper when we get fucked in the ass one more time.

 

We're in the deepest throes of battered-woman syndrome.

135

No matter what plan is voted in or not voted on, the American producers are fucked. Remember. The producers are no longer the majority. Politicians play to majorities.

 

Their numbers were greatly reduced when Billy Jeff Cliton signed  NAFTA and declared we would transition  away from    manufacturing   to a service-based economy.

 

Also, I'm just fresh out of shits   or   fucks to give anymore. TFG is on a mission to destroy what's left of America and Boner   et al  will not stand up to him or speak the truth to the people.

136

/looks at the Republican party...

 

God says he can get me out of this... but you're pretty much Fooked...

137 >Golf clap for the obscure Conan reference [clap clap clap]. Posted by: joncelli at December 12, 2012 12:35 PM (RD7QR) _______________ You, huh? Well you won't get away with this. Ace or Gabe is gonna hear all about this. You'll rue the day! -

138 128 "Buchanan is one of my heroes; he saw this coming 20 years ago. He warned the nation that one day all these immigrants from different races are going to tilt this country against whites, and whites are no longer the majority...."

You know, that's right on the money. Remember what he was called then - racist, nativist, Paleo- Con? The Establishment sniffed at him dismissively. Well, living as I do on the outskirts of Little Zimbabwe, I kind of get his point.

139

taxes should not be more progressive;  if more people pay tax, perhaps they will be more concerned about government spending;  let all tax cuts expire

140

Whatever deal that Boehner comes back with, I hope the House amends it enough to make a it a total crap sandwich.  Then watch it fail to pass it in some sort of quasi-bi-partisan screwed up vote. 

 

Let the House take the blame - who cares? (Remember there is NO FISCAL CLIFF!)

 

Then have the House leadership vote for a new Speaker and let the process start over.  They ought pick someone like Michelle Bachmann (not that I am a huge fan) just to piss off the press and Obama.  Hey, if we are going to get blamed for the fire, we might as well get to add the gasoline and make it a big one.

 

L.I.B.

141

ummmm, excuse me.

 

Marco Rubio-Tom Cotton will fix this in 2016!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Seriously, why in the fuck play the game.  Repubs need to say again and again and again that they have compromised and put new revenue, TAXES on the table.

 

All they are waiting for now is a responsible proposal from the President on cuts.  They haven't got it yet.

 

So if zero won't do anything, we are not going to keep putting our kids in trillions of debt.  So back to the clinton tax rates for EVERYONE...

 

Why in the fuck is that such a big deal.  This is zero's choice, MAKE HIM FUCKING OWN IT.

142 That's it. Everyone put the caps down and no one will get hurt.

143 What's your midichlorian count? It's a one-drop rule. Also, WTL;DR, Judy.

144 from the Christian Right ~ it only takes a spark to get a fire going, and soon all those around, can warm up to its glowing, That's how it is with SCOAMF, once you've experienced him, You want to watch The world ignite, You want to let it burn. /~

145 Marco Rubio-Tom Cotton will fix this in 2016!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Posted by: Prescient11

Whoever the fuck Tom Cotton is I hope he finds his way to the bottom of a well.

146 I admit being a bit befuddled as to why this is a bad option.

The President wants cover for the numerous tax issues that will hit people next year. Foremost among them is Obamacare. I think people are underestimating the very real negative impact in that legislation.

If the President can share the "blame" or point the finger towards Republicans on fiscal cliff taxes, he has a strawman and cover. That's his MO.

If we "tax the rich" it will further kill the economy. But I guarantee you the headlines next year will be crushing Obamacare taxes. That is, besides entitlements that are broke and another downgrade.

Continue good faith negotiations and push the President to identify spending cuts. If you can't make progress pass this bill, tax the "rich" and let Mr. Obama own that and the disastrous results of Obamacare taxes.

Democrats are already running from the Medical Device taxes in Obamacare. Guarantee you can break their coalition with this strategy.

147 Whoever the fuck Tom Cotton is I hope he finds his way to the bottom of a well. Where he gets the hose.

148 Remember what he was called then - racist, nativist, Paleo- Con? The Establishment sniffed at him dismissively.
Posted by: tubal at December 12, 2012 12:53 PM (BoE3Z)
----
Now Anti-Semitic has been added to the list.
No need to worry about the big picture though when you can endlessly argue about marginal tax rates...

149 It's literally against the law for the Senate to not pass a budget, too bad you can't count on the government to arrest itself. Posted by: JDTAY at December 12, 2012 12:47 PM

With this in mind, imprison Choom Boy and every member of Congress today. Allow them to gather in the exercise yard of the SuperMax where they're housed to talk, and release them ONLY when they rework the tax code, pass a balanced budget and offer up a bill that permanently cuts government spending (obviously, there would have to be rigidly controlled exceptions for defense and natural disasters) to 1960 levels.

Yeah, it'd be a life term for most of them, but that can only benefit the country.

150 Whoever the fuck Tom Cotton is I hope he finds his way to the bottom of a well.

Being a no-name freshman House rep from a backwater district is pretty close.

151 This simple fix would save actual taxpayers (us) well over a trillion each year.

As conservatives, we need to grassroots this into the mainstream.

Posted by: jwest at December 12, 2012 12:23 PM (ZDsRL)

Aaaa the Appeal to their self interest plan, rather than their better nature...since they don't have one.

I like it.

152

Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 12, 2012 12:56 PM (RuUvx)

 

 Purging is at last at hand. Day of Doom is here. All that is evil, all their allies; your parents, your leaders, those who would call themselves your judges; those who have lied and corrupted the Earth, they shall all be cleansed.

Morons Chanting: [chanting] Doom!

Thulsa Doom: You, my children, are the water that will wash away all that has gone before. In your hand, you hold my light, the gleam in the eye of Set. This flame will burn away the darkness, burn you the way to paradise!

153 If we "tax the rich" it will further kill the economy. But I guarantee you the headlines next year will be crushing Obamacare taxes. That is, besides entitlements that are broke and another downgrade.

We'll take that bet.

154

Tom Cotton told me you guys can suck it....

 

hahahahahaahahha.

 

All this debate is a joke.  Jack the taxes on everyone.  Why is this even a question?  Again every morning, lunch and night, pubs need to say, we have compromised.

 

Prezzy won't give us cuts. 

 

Thus, we have to be responsible to stop the crazy debt.  Welcome to zero's world motherfuckers.

155

And Messrs. Rubio and Cotton would like to inform you that Mr. Cotton shall be the junior senator from Arkansas in 2 years.

 

But there is no way somebody from a backwater state like Arkansas could win 2 national elections, right??

156 Republicans DON"T have another bad option. Sorry, I haven't read the comments, but that piece of shit won't pass the House. Some Chicago style legislative tabling, or some shit would happen.

157 "Why does anyone want to 'fix' the AMT! It mostly affects high blue states where Rich Obama voters love them some big tax deductions. F them!"

This.

Another monkeywrenching idea: ask Obama for a hard number he wants to see in terms of new taxes.

Then return to the table with an even higher figure. Composed of stuff that will sock Obama's allies right in a place that'll make them gasp with pain.

Admissions taxes on movies (we used to have those back in the day). Repeal of the mortgage interest tax deduction, which goes overwhelmingly to high income homeowners in New York and California. And let the AMT meat axe fall without interruption. That too hits Obama's buddies disproportionately hard.

They like taxes? Give them a horse-doctor's dose of taxes. On themselves.

158 The Almighty tells me he can get me out of this mess, but you're fucked.

159 Judy, Judy, Judy.

Shirley you can't be serious.

160 Now that I'm here there will be newness in 5..4..3..2....

161

I don't know why Repubs are worried, they hold the cards here.

 

Zero has the most to lose by allowing the cliff to happen.  Trust me.

 

Combine that with stupid fucking obamacare, and it will be an epic disaster.

162 Just like clockwerk.  I'm starting to feel funny about that.

163 160 Now that I'm here there will be newness in 5..4..3..2....

Posted by: eleven at December 12, 2012 01:05 PM (KXm42)

A Law of the Universe. "And Now for Something Completely Different". It's a shiny object thing. We'll dash off momentarily to another desultory back and forth over what we should do about something we can't control. Cynicism - the new normal.

164 Rush is hitting it today and I'll even repeat  it as  my belief too.  Dear Leader wants this nation to go off the cliff.   He's got a plan, the repubs don't.

165 Fuck all the politicians.  Here's a plan.  No new taxes - none.  Cut spending by 50% across the board - no exceptions - even the military gets cut.

Also, everybody works - everybody above the age of consent does something.  The only exception to this rule would be those unfortunate folks currently in a coma.  I don't care if you just rake leaves for the neighbor or cut lawns.  Everybody works. 

But, people will starve you say - BullShit.  Family, neighbors and friends will have to help out.  That's how the country worked back in the 30's, 40' and 50's.   Its the only way this country can work and still allow people to be free. 

166 I don't know why Repubs are worried, they hold the cards here.

Zero has the most to lose by allowing the cliff to happen. Trust me.

Combine that with stupid fucking obamacare, and it will be an epic disaster.

Posted by: Prescient11 at December 12, 2012 01:05 PM (tVTLU)

 

 

----------------------------------------------

 

 

Listen to Rush.  Dear Leader has the most to gain from  going over the cliff.

167

168 "Whatever the House sends to the Senate, it should have copyright reform language in it.

Hah! Yeah, that would be awesome. But no way. The GOP fired the dude who wrote a report suggesting that just for writing a report suggesting that."

I know.  But let's start a "share the pain" meme.  Boehner needs to understand that basic principles are involved and that if he isn't willing to fight for us, then we will hire enough people in 2014 to kick his ass out of the speakership.

169

 

Lots of bandwidth, but here's the eventual outcome:

 

 

There will be a deal, and it won't be any good.

 

 

What do I win?

 

 

 

170 Listen to Rush. Dear Leader has the most to gain from going over the cliff. Posted by: Soona at December 12, 2012 01:12 PM (YfIgk) Hey, no fair, I've been sayin it before Rush. There is no deal, bush tax cuts will sunset and there will be sequestration. Bank on it. It's what Obama wanted all along.

171 I'd love to see those rich CA And NY Obama voters lose their ability to deduct their state taxes

172 Let it burn. Let it burn now. Teh Won brought a can of gas, I'll get the matches...

173 Screw the ATM.  It hits blue state voters much harder than red state ones.

Let it hit them.  They voted for it.

It's time for Republicans to stop saving people from the consequences of their votes.  You vote for Democrats, your taxes should go up.

174 >> Posted by: Prescient11 at December 12, 2012 12:53 PM (tVTLU) Hide posts from (tVTLU)

Get back to work Tom Cotton.

175

I actually kind of like this strategy, but only because sequester still happens and unemployment gets cut.  But its when the GOP inevitably caves on unemployment extension that I start to doubt this strategy.  The cliff allows the GOP to make politically hard decisions without making a formal vote.  Sure not voting will be interpreted as voting, but  there  is  a real and psychological difference.   I'd be happy with either  at  this  point. 

 

The way I look  at it is it is either (a)  a compromise  on  Obama's terms  or  (b)  the  cliff  now or later.  I'd prefer to go over  now and raise everyone's  rates, but option  C is much preferable to Option A.  

 

Besides   any  grand  compromise with Obama will cause  the  most  orgasmic response  from the media since his election.  I'd prefer to  just avoid that. 

 

 

176

If this gives some strength to GOP backbones (cough...Boehner...cough Cantor), well then, fine with me.

 

I'm also cool with just going over the cliff.

177 "Do congressional Republicans care about "optics"? Of course they do. They're elected officials- they have to. What principle is served by pissing off constituents who will retaliate by handing the House back to the Dems, complete with a 60 vote Dem Senate majority?" No. It's not about "optics" anymore. It's about the narrative. The narrative has already been written: The Republicans are to blame for anything bad that happens. It does not matter what the Republicans actually do to evade blame, because the press will not report it. They're living in a fantasy world, and so are you.

178 http://tinyurl.com/d9lrn6q

Take a look at those charts and tell me we are not already in a double dip recession. Let Obama own this one. It's going to be hard to blame it on Bush.