1 So, Mitt must become Newt.

2 Ace must've pulled an all-nighter.

3 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable tyrant.

4 A successful politician draws in his base and holds onto them, and uses that to draw in moderates. A failed politician does what Mitt does.

5 Are we really going to pick Gingrich? Wow, Republicans are retarded gardasil fools. Think big picture. Ugh

6 It depends what data he's reading. Mayhaps he's still looking at data for the general election, which tells him to stay moderate.

7 SC is the latest, so it looms largest, but by next week all we'll be talking about is FL. I think Romney's best line of attack against Gingrich will be to hold him up as the lecture hall hero he is. In the real world, Newt's just the greasy toad who scores BJ's from his homely secretary, but put him in front of a symposium of political scientists and he's Thucydides with a dash of Churchill, just ask him.

8 Saying Obama is a "nice guy" is code word for black.

9 So Romney is the new Perry?  Does Perry's endorsement mean nothing?  Can you at least contact his campaign and ask why he endorsed Newt?

Romney?  Wow, the differences between the South and the North will divide this country again...

10

Romney angry and courting conservatives?

Reaaaaaally. I gotta say "That will be the day" He's a RINO flipflopping tool that has been running for President since the last election and he's from MA. 'Nufff said.

11 OK, how many times can I be first or is it eating everyone's comments?

12 FOIST, for the 3rd time....

13 Sigh.....

14 >>>Romney? Wow, the differences between the South and the North will divide this country again... what?

15 Well, that was special...

16 I put it into draft because it followed too close upon Monty's Daily Doom. now it's out.

17 The problem is if you are conservative and have been paying attention you SHOULD be so angry you cannot hide it. That's where the electorate is...it motivates your entire reason for running. It's not a "cheap date" act...it is TRUTH!
And Romney doesn't see it nor feel it and it's obvious to the voters.

18 Compare how Newt and Mitt react to the TEA Party.

19

Obama will have lots of supporters vouching for what a well-intentioned soul he is. We do not need Romney joining them in this.

Mittens is justs following the lead of the whole of the cowardly GOP leadership.  Who was it who called for an impeachment over that un-Constitutional and blatantly illegal Libyan operation?  None of them.  They all suck.

I understand the politics of why Romney refrains-- he doesn't want to lose the moderates, later.

No ... he's just an idiot who naturally leans left. 

Romney is a wealthy man. That might read "conservative" to some, but most know better -- most know that the very wealthy tend to be the first adopters of the faux-aristocracy's habits and beliefs. And that faux-aristocracy is the liberal establishment.

In today's insane world, wealth is much more likely to mean "limousine liberal" than anything.  Mittens only adds to that.

20 Personally, I think of this as Cheap Date Conservatism, if we don't bother to check if Gingrich is really promising anything "fundamentally transformative" in substance,

That's absolutely true as long as you ignore Newt's Social Security and tax plans which are much more (dare I say) "fundamentally transformative" than anything Mitt has proposed.

21 Mitt is a Liberal pretending to be a Moderate pretending to be a Conservative. He is all and nothing all in one.

22 I can feel t his whole t hing sliding down the white porcelain bowl.

23 >>>The problem is if you are conservative and have been paying attention you SHOULD be so angry you cannot hide it. i'm really tired of the It's Good To Be Angry thing. The left said the same thing 2001-2008.

24

Ace, go read Dyer over at HotAir.  There, a clue for free.

25 Romney cannot refashion himself into a tart-tongued firebrand like Gingrich.

But he could renounce Romneycare and start slapping down liberals more consistently like he did that OWS guy.

He really likes slamming the conservative Hobbit base.

26 If Newt failed as Speaker, I only wish John Bonehead could fail like that.

27 Wow Coulter has just lost her mind on the Mike Gallagher show. She's not making sense and she's shrill....

28 it's not all passing files back and forth as in The Only Industries That Are Noble, law, media, and academia

And we have waaaaaaay too much of that first industry already.

29 It may be understandable that we're angry, but neither should we be proud of it, nor think that angry thoughts and angry words are smart thoughts and smart words. Anger is one of the seven deadly sins, unless there's a special Except for Obama clause.

30 Romney: Gingrich is a "Failed Leader" Who "Resigned In Disgrace"

As opposed to a "Failed Leader" who "didn't run for re-election."

I'm not seeing a huge win in that tactic for Romney.

And just being "angry" at Obama isn't going to help him much, either.  Newt already staked that ground, Mittens squatting on that plot won't help him much.

I could certainly be wrong, but I think- baring a sea-change between now and FL, that Romney lost this with his "I don't need no steenkink conservatives" plan.

31 So you're saying Romney needs to pander to conservatives more. Got it.

32 i'm really tired of the It's Good To Be Angry thing.

I'm really tired of the "shut up and go work your patch while your betters do the thinking for your, serf" thing.

33 Everyone seems to forget that Newt said his wife's accusations were false. He denied it.

34 >>>If Newt failed as Speaker, I only wish John Bonehead could fail like that. This is actually a good point. John Boehner won more seats in 2010 than Newt did in 1994. if newt's such a force of nature, why shouldn't boeher be counted as a greater one? Newt also gave up on the shutdown, by the way, and gave up his demands about cutting stuff.

35

Noot will not attract votes from anyone but the base. You need more than the base to win. The base says: FU, I don't care. *Romney hate*

Noot will not attract the middle or independents. Romney will, and he may even succeed in peeling away a few democrats. So, yeah- lets go with Noot; The man we all laughed at and told to move over old man, you're embarrassing yourself.

36 Hey, all.  It is decidedly NOT anger at all.  It is deep frustration and fear and it is showing up and being misinterpreted as anger.  It is not!

37 It is good to get angry when you see your country heading to the abyss. It is okay, it does not mean you are crazy and scary. Mitt can not and will not help turn the USA away from Socialism. Newt might. Thats enough for me.

38 Wow Coulter has just lost her mind on the Mike Gallagher show. She's not making sense and she's shrill....

Posted by: mare at January 23, 2012 09:54 AM (A98Xu)

Coulter lost her mind when she let her chubby-chasing infest her politics.

39 >>>I could certainly be wrong, but I think- baring a sea-change between now and FL, that Romney lost this with his "I don't need no steenkink conservatives" plan. Well then I hope we're all ready for a guy with 25/65 fav/unfavs who is disorganized and undisciplined. While we're all touting a virtue we used to malign (surface intelligence), we might take a stroll down memory lane and give a thought to ones we championed in years past -- drive, dedication, industry, focus, follow-through.

40 You know their is a saying if you are yelling you are losing the argument. Romney could not convince people in Florida against McCain the last go around. Romney is falling in the McCullum catagory(primary race between Scott and McCullum). Newt has a lot more capability than McCain and Newt Habichi knifes are ready for the chop. I can't believe Romney doesn't understand that point those arguments toward Obama and sell you are the best candidate to defeat him. So far no sell. I think people feel Romney just doesn't get it.

41 I don't think Romney has it in him. Look, he's now attacking Gingrich as a failed leader. Finally recognizing that he "led" something after last week saying that he was practically no leader at all. People think (wrongly I believe) that Gingrich did well in the debates because he attacked John King. I think people like the red meat, but the truth is Gingrich does well in every aspect of the debates. Go back to that debate, where did the crowd engage, laugh, and probably 75% of that room decide Gingrich is my guy? Remember when we made a "deal" with the parents of America? Elect us and your kids will be able to move out. In 4 sentences, Gingrich ripped Obama and Obamacare a new one, dealt with the media (think of all the 25 year olds that will "SUFFER AND DIE BECAUSE OF EVIL CONSERVATIVES), and put an exclamation point on the economic destruction this President is working. It was pitch perfect. That's when he won. If he has another one like that tonight it will be all over.

42 i'm really tired of the It's Good To Be Angry thing. The left said the same thing 2001-2008.

Hmmm... funny, that.  They really started that meme (though there had been rumblings of it prior) around 2003.  And, with the exception of 2004 (in which they were trying to unseat a sitting President in War-Time- well, one who was actually prosecuting the war, instead of trying to turn tail and run), it worked really well for them.

So explain to me how "It's Good To Be Angry" is not a winning tactic?

43 Posred this earlier, but it belongs here. Need some knowledge and can't search well on my mobile: What is behind all of the Romneyite tapping about Newt not being on enough primary ballots to win?

44 Yesterday ABC radio news kept playing a sound bite of Mitt speaking about all of Newt's problems as Speaker and then ending with "I don't know if you knew that?".  

Mitt might have been factually correct but the addendum sounded like a 7th grade girl.  He came off petulant and angry but not in a good way, it didn't suit him so he sounded like a gossip whispering about the widow down the street.  Yeah everyone knows the widow down the street is entertaining gentleman callers at all hours of the day and night but everyone likes her so you come off looking like the out of the loop dummy. 

I thought two things when I heard that sound bite:  first, does mitt romney ever really get angry and second that his campaign told him to come up with a reaganesque phrase "there you go again" that he could repeat.  That didn't work either.

Business is interesting.  Anger is an emotion.  When you unchain your emotions in business quite often you screw things up.  You are better off looking at cold hard facts and remaining devoid of emotion about the cold hard facts.  So while the average middle class hard working struggling human being might think about the waste of money and manpower and a squandered future.  Mitt of Bain would think "ok, here's what I have, what can I do.  Can this company be saved or do we euthanize it and move on"....I guess it's kind of like triage in the emergency room.  If that is the way you have been approaching problems for most of your adult life.  Keeping your emotions in check, never getting angry.  To ask Mitt to get angry now is asking him to act, to feign something he doesn't allow himself to feel.  So, he will be doomed to failure cause he isn't a showman.  He might be the reliably steady guy who keeps the company afloat but he isn't getting that across and he is facing a showman now and will be facing a showman if he's the nominee.  So maybe this is what the electorate is picking up.  

45 if newt's such a force of nature, why shouldn't boeher be counted as a greater one?
Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 09:56 AM (nj1bB)

Boehner led the GOP back after 4 years in the wilderness after Obama and the Democrats pissed off everyone in the world with ObamaCare.

Newt led the GOP back after 40 years against a guy who was much more popular than Obama.

When Newt won, everyone thought it was the Democrat's birthright to run the House. He changed decades of accepted wisdom.

Context matters.

46 drew, fucking nonsense. Check kiting scandal? Hillarycare enraged voters. Oh right, the Democrats were soooo popular in 1994.

47 While we're all touting a virtue we used to malign (surface intelligence),

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 09:58 AM (nj1bB)

When did conservatives EVER malign intelligence (even superficial intelligence - whatever you are trying to imply by that)?

Elitism and harvard worship have nothing to do with intelligence, superficial or otherwise.

48 course gingrich couldn't push the check kiting thing himself as he'd kited checks...

49 i'm really tired of the It's Good To Be Angry thing. The left said the same thing 2001-2008. It worked in 2010 didn't it?

50 Ace-
I think Romney tried a bit of the anger with his "shove it down Obama's throat" comment at the last debate.  I applaud the effort, but it still comes across as a bit of a dog walking on his hind legs.  You applaud the effort, not because it was done well, but because it was done at all. 

I agree with all of your analysis.  Romney needs to express a bit of fire, but without coming across as if he's only doing it to respond to Gingrich.  Then he becomes a follower instead of a leader.

51 really, I was told by a lot of people ago that intelligence wasn't all that important, when some of the talked-up candidates might not have been great on that front. now it's the be-all end-all and we don't care about serial adultery, either. But one group that leans Republican, and we need to win big -- married women -- might care a little. oh but they'll be charmed, or impressed, or whatever.

52 It tickles my fancy that all the big government RINO's are totally shitting themselves over the prospect of Newt being the ONE.  Tee, tee!

53 Good thing we got rid of Pawlenty because he was boring, and Perry because he said "heartless."  Imagine where we'd be otherwise.

54 1) The GOP base rejected the guy who checked nearly all the boxes on the "What a Candidate Should Have to Beat Obama" Checklist for superficial and silly reasons. So, I really don't give a shit what happens, we're going to get the candidate we deserve not the one we need.

2) Someone was all worried last night on the ONT that Gingrich will never, ever win over moderate Democrats. I'm like, "So? Why's it a bad thing that he won't owe the moderate Democrats a damned thing? Why's it a bad thing that he won't give a shit what they think?" The GOP always agreeing to "just the tip" attempting to appease moderate Democrats is what got us into this mess.

I'm in a "Sampson, bring down that temple!" type of mood.

55 if newt's such a force of nature, why shouldn't boeher be counted as a greater one?

Balanced Budget.  Welfare Reform.

Neither was perfect, but tell me what (besides "winning seats") Boehner has done? 

Also, I reject the idea that Boehner "won" any seats in 2010.  I'm pretty sure that, if Boehner had had his way, they would not have won nearly as many seats.  Don't give credit to Boehner for what the grass-roots (TEA Parties) did despite his efforts.

Noot will not attract votes from anyone but the base. You need more than the base to win. The base says: FU, I don't care. *Romney hate*

But you do need the Base, and Romney is showing he can't pull that.  So which flawed candidate should we select?

drive, dedication, industry, focus, follow-through.

Those are only good if they're directed at the right things, Ace. 

56 I really think he's a walking disaster area.

This can be stretched twisted and malformed into an endorsement of Newt.  We might be able to primary Newt and get a real conservative in 2016.  The only thing that would be able to unseat the lukewarm establishment bowl of socialism light Willard gruel would be the opposing party.

57 I think the guy who would have made the best president has already left the field.  Nominate whoever you want.

58 >>>I agree with all of your analysis. Romney needs to express a bit of fire, but without coming across as if he's only doing it to respond to Gingrich. yeah I agree. I offered a tangible suggestion -- on the economy, on horrific mismanagement, on stupidity-- where he might actually be *genuine* in loosing a little anger.

59

27  "Wow Coulter has just lost her mind"

Bb-but Neut's the crazy one.

60 We must nominate mushy politicians so we won't alienate the mushy voters who want mushy results. It's called leadership, folks. Look it up.

61 Ace - You cannot argue rationally.  The crowd that likes Newt wants a fight.. a damn bloody fight.  They claim Romney is a liberal northerner and can recite verbatim all his shortcomings.  Yet, in the same breath they extoll the virtues of the mean fighter Newt while dismissing all of his foibles out of hand.

I'm not going to argue any longer.  It is hopeless.

I agree with most of what you said - except the part about him saying Obama is a nice guy.  While he may have said that, I simply haven't heard him say that.  So, I wonder if you are amplifying the one or two times you heard him say that beyond reality.

The emotional aspects of the race right now have taken over.  No mention of policy.. Newt is going to "fundamentally transform Washington".  WTF is that?  Obama will likely say the same thing tomorrow night and it will be just as meaningless.

I'm not real happy with Mitt..,. I wish we had Christie, or an intelligent Perry.  But Newt is a disaster waiting to happen.  And, I truly believe he cannot win, especially with helmet-haired Callista by his side.  Moochelle comes across as a warm likable person compared to her.  He cannot win.  And I will take a boring executive who spent his life turning things around that can win over a loose cannon who cannot any day of the week.

62

“If Gingrich wins Florida,the Republican Establishment is going to have a meltdown. Why? Because the Establishment will be staring down the barrel of two utterly unpalatable choices. On the one hand, Gingrich’s national favorable-unfavorable ratings of 26.5 and 58.6 percent, respectively make him not just unelectable against Obama but also mean that he would likely be a ten-ton millstone around the necks of down-ballot Republican candidates across the country. And on the other, Romney has shown in two successive contests—one in a bellwether Republican state, the other in a key swing state—an inability to beat his deeply unpopular rival. If this scenario unfolds, the sound of GOP grandees whispering calls for a white knight, be it Indiana governor Mitch Daniels (who, conveniently, is delivering the Republican response to Obama’s State of the Union address on Tuesday night) or Wisconsin congressman Paul Ryan or even Jeb Bush, will be deafening.”

***

“The buzz in Washington now is that the Republican Establishment fears Gingrich will cause them to lose the House and not get the Senate. Put another way, the current Republican leadership fears that the man who helped the GOP take back the House for the first time in 40 years and his allies in the tea party who helped take back the House in 2010 will cause the GOP to now lose."

______***

Wow. I had no idea I too am an inside the belway establishment elite.

63

#45 gotta go with you there....

The GOP took back the house in 2010 because of the TEA party, not because of Boehner.

 

64 Can't wait for Karl Rove and the boys to start slamming Newt during the general election campaign like they did Angle and COD. 

Yet we are supposed to hold our noses and vote for their crap sandwiches every time.

Submitted with love, not anger.

65 >>>Good thing we got rid of Pawlenty because he was boring, and Perry because he said "heartless." Imagine where we'd be otherwise. mmm-hm. But we've made our bad beds, now we have to lie in them. I did tell the establishment -- repeatedly -- that if it tried to "win" on Romney, they'd end up losing. The base will have its way. They have in mind that they are smarter than the Establishment and will show them a thing or two. The Establishment should have realized this and pushed an alternative to Romney they could live with.

66 But one group that leans Republican, and we need to win big -- married women -- might care a little. oh but they'll be charmed, or impressed, or whatever. Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 10:02 AM (nj1bB) Newt got good support from them in SC.

67 drew, fucking nonsense. Check kiting scandal? Hillarycare enraged voters.
Oh right, the Democrats were soooo popular in 1994.
Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 10:00 AM (nj1bB)

Clinton's approval rating in November 1994 was near 60%.

Obama's in November 2010 was 43%

It's not a perfect indicator but there was a big difference in the environment.

68 What a pathetic crop of candidates, huh?! Cheers to the Obammy reelection in 2012! Serf's up, dudes!

If everybody had a 12 gauge, and a surf board tooo...

69 i'm really tired of the It's Good To Be Angry thing. The left said the same thing 2001-2008.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 09:53 AM (nj1bB)

Ok dude...what would it take for you to get pissed...ANGRY? Let's say you have lost your job, home and were counting on a Keystone job...you wanna get a cup of tea and think it through...

70 you don't need to look at Newts history past 2008. He who sat on the couch with Pelosi when Republicans were in the middle of a battle in Congress fighting against Greenhouse initiatives, who supported Dede Scozzafava, who called Ryan's plan a right wing social project and who lied right to your face like Clinton when he claimed he only made 300k working as a historian for Freddie Mac. The voters have spoken and they have tourettets. And for me any other attack on the media by Newt would have been great by me but it made me embarrassed that this particular arrogant outrage that how dare you bring the subject up of my personal life is the one that supposedly propelled him. The same flawed man who rightly raised the issue about Clinton. If you want to be anti Mitt support Santorum for godssake.

71 32 So you're saying Romney needs to pander to conservatives more. Got it.

Don't knock it 'till you've tried it.

72 Too much of the public thinks Obama is a nice guy who inherited a terrible mess and is doing his good faith best to bring the country back. We don't need a nominee who will confirm that kind of insane belief. We need someone who is not afraid to confront Obama and to show the people exactly how this JEF is destroying the country.
Obama is not a nice guy. Every policy has been designed to tear this country down and turn it into a euro-socialist mediocrity.

73 People want to go back to the 90s. They do, they want to go back to having Bill Clinton in the White House. Monica or not, they don't care. Remember this. In California, the last time people felt "good" about politics was when the Duke was governor. In Federal Politics it was the 90s. Overall, people want to forget the Bush and Obama era. If Gingrich plays he cards right, and gets the nomination I *bleeping* guarantee, he will run to the middle as a Bill Clinton light. And he may run away with it. If People could elect Bill to a 3rd term they would and that would be a blowout of epic proportions. (Spoken as one who is No fan of Bill)

74 I've heard Mitt say that obama is a nice guy or some variation more times than I'm comfortable with.  He doesn't realize it but when he says that and he's meaning to be nice and complimentary as that is how he deals with his opponents.  When he does that though, all he does is conjure up McCain saying that BO would make a good president.  That is why it is so damaging when he says it.

75 Romney is semi-autistic, his pal Christie admitted as much in Meet the Piss yesterday, saying he has a "reserved personality". His aspergers won't allow him to convey to the public how cool he actually is. Poor soul. Maybe he should get a head start, add him some "disability delegates" because of his disability, like they get in grade school. Sync it up!

76 ace,

Forget how awful Newt is for a moment.

What exactly is the proof that Romney is so electable?

Pew or Gallup just had a poll out showing both Newt and Romney trailing Obama 50-48. It's just one poll and yeah, Newt has lots of negatives but where's this evidence Mitt is such a strong option vs. Obama for most voters?

Doesn't the fact that Romney is a lousy candidate matter at all?

77 when I met Gingrich at CPAC, he said "Conservatives always want to fight about everything. They can't, they have to learn that." Which was his pitch for some plan he had called like 9 at 90, nine points at 90% polling. I quoted that on the blog. I always liked that about him, that he was politically cunning and not just an ideologue. He was... flexible. He knew better than to fight a fight he couldn't win. Anyway, I cited that approvingly. I don't think it's a bad habit, necessarily. I'm just surprised to now learn that Gingrich is Mr. Ideological Fidelity.

78 Who will appoint better judges and at least one justice? I don't know who would have the edge there but I think Romney would be less inclined to start a fight by nominating a strong conservative for the bench.

79 Ace Very concise and spot on assessment of both, Romney and his situation. Why in G-d's name then, do you try to coach him on conniving to get the vote of us conservatives who KNOW he'd given from the center at best?? Doing so would not overturn obamacare and probably not dismantle any of the green pressure on business from the EPA etc...

80 The same flawed man who rightly raised the issue about Clinton.

Bullshit.  Stop perpetuating the left's lie.

Clinton's impeachment was about perjury and obstruction of justice.  Distal causation was about credible accusations of rape (or, rape-rape, as Whoopie might say).  Just having an affair in the Oval office wouldn't have gotten Clinton impeached.

81

really, I was told by a lot of people ago that intelligence wasn't all that important, when some of the talked-up candidates might not have been great on that front.

You are correct.  It was an argument that intelligence is not a requirement, so long as the person has a solid understanding of conservative fundamentals (from which all conservative positions can be arrived at).

now it's the be-all end-all and we don't care about serial adultery, either.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 10:02 AM (nj1bB)

 

I'm not sure that people are putting that much into Newt's intelligence as they are identifying that Newt almost always KNOWS the conservative position (even though he opts to distance himself from it, often, or try and play the game of "be a conservative within suffocating liberal constraints - leading to his global warming idiocy and the rest).

All else equal, I think everyone would go with "smarter".  The question is how much the underlying assumptions matter.  Given the clown race that the GOP primary is (they all suck) people are allowing tons of slack for all sorts of things, since most of us wouldn't vote for any of these fools (were it not that America is about to be snuffed out with a re-election of Barky the America-hating Retard).  But, if you dig down, I think you'll find that people still have the same attitude aboutu candidates, but we are stuck with the candidates we have ....

82 Newt aughta release the whole ethics committee thing and get it out of the way now

83

I have every confidence that the pasty old guy and the angry base will take the GOP and drive it over the cliff.

Ann lost her mind because the GOP base is going to hand us Obama + a possible loss in the House and Senate. Yeah - I feel like I might lose my mind too.

84 Just clicked into Beck to hear him saying "stop calling us we aren't against Newt".   Wonder what Beck said to cause an onslaught of phone calls?

85 >>>Ok dude...what would it take for you to get pissed...ANGRY? Let's say you have lost your job, home and were counting on a Keystone job...you wanna get a cup of tea and think it through... I'm angry a lot. I'm angry on a blog. It's safe to be angry on the blog. Who cares? But this idea some people have that we literally want to run someone with the anger of a Radio Show Host like Levin... it's nuts to me. That's not politics, it's entertainment. People are seeking validation when they should be seeking fucking political power. Whatever it takes.

86 But there are some things he can and should do, if he wants to win this thing.

There is only one way Romney could win my vote, because I *know* he will not pursue conservative ends if elected.

Namely, sign a public agreement to resign from office on Jan 1, 2014 if Obamacare is not repealed in total or the budget is $1 more then the day he was elected - counting all off book numbers. And choose an extremely conservative VP - Rubio, DeMint, etc.

It won't be enforceable by law, BUT it would show he is serious.  In fact, every Republican candidate should sign on the same agreement.

87 As carbon dioxide trails actual changes in temperature, the selection of the Speaker of the House is something that happens after the election.  Much to the dismay of the base.

88 Look at the rasmussen poll. HOLY SHIRT Ace, we're bOth upset about perry but we have to go with the lesser evil here. Compare newts plan with robotneys. Newts is much more conservative. Thomas sowell endorsment

89 The Establishment should have realized this and pushed an alternative to Romney they could live with.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 10:05 AM (nj1bB)

Seriously???  Doesn't this actually make it pretty clear that there is no "establishment."  Romney's flaws and weaknesses were exposed four years ago.  He isn't any better a politician than he was then.  So how could there be such an all-powerful "establishment" that would so foolishly anoint him this time?  This is, and always has been, a phony construct that gives a soothing palliative to some butthurt fools after every campaign when their favorite idiot fails to win. 

I'm really tired of all the absolute drivel I am hearing in this campaign. 

90 Ace, married women went for Newt in SC.

91 82 Newt aughta release the whole ethics committee thing and get it out of the way now

Posted by: nevergiveup at January 23, 2012 10:10 AM (i6RpT)

I hope they release everything just before the state of the union address so the media will go stark raving mad with being torn apart by what to report on first.

92 DOn't you start plugging for Romney, Ace.  Don't go there till you have to.  And when Bill Whittle agrees with ME, Bill Whittle is usually right.

93 newt claims a lot of credit for a lot of things, but how true is that ? clinton won with 41% (no mandate) of the vote, ross perot got 19-20%  the electorate was more than ready for conservative fiscal policies;

94 Romney needs to look at the exit polling and reflect on it.  But I don't think he is good at self-criticism. 

I actually think Newt may be a wee bit better at it because he made major mistakes in his personal life in the 80s and 90s, repented, and took a proactive step to change his ways.

95 #80 the issues were raised when Clinton was a candidate you obtuse, Medina Truther voting fool.

96 I'm just surprised to now learn that Gingrich is Mr. Ideological Fidelity. Any conservative voting for Gingrich because he is Mr. Ideological Fidelity, is rightly decried by you as a fool. But I believe I can see what he is...a Bill Clinton of the Republican Party.... he is going to stab us in the back to get reelected, he is going to cut deals if he has to, he will play with the interns in the Oval Office, but he'll probably appoint the conservative equivalent of Breyer and Ginsburg, and for that, I will take the rest.

97

I know a lot of Republicans would like to be loyal and support their leadership,

kinda like the Costa Concordians,  watching Cap'n Sh*ttino motor to shore.

You are so hosed.

98 3. He must demonstrate he comes from the same place as conservatives and thus will tend to have the impulses of conservatives. He's already demonstrated he doesn't come from the right, and never has - as recently as 2007 he has demonstrated he isn't from the right and doesn't have those impulses. We don't trust him because he has proven untrustworthy. If Romney is such a devout Mormon, how could he ever have held abortion is just fine and dandy - as recently as 2003 (2005?) - when he was an adult and had been for a while - a point when your belief patterns should have been well established. He's flip flops when its advantageous. At BEST Romney is a political opportunist with the personality of soggy fiber cereal.

99 I hope they release everything just before the state of the union address so the media will go stark raving mad with being torn apart by what to report on first. Posted by: ambrosia at January 23, 2012 10:12 AM (oZfic) Actually that would be great. And the time to release stuff that may not be great is when you are on the upswing

100 I don't think you need to be angry, but you'd better be damned concerned. Damned scared even, like seeing Jap Zeros drop through the clouds on a December day scared. That means there will be some base, gut-level emotion that strongly animates your speech. And at least Newt shows that, he shows that there is something more than "I'm good enough, people like me and gosh-darn it: I should be President" motivating him. 

101

You have just ruined my day Ace.  I never thought you would sign on with the Karl Rove/Jennifer Rubin wing.  Next you will be extolling the crease in Romney's pants and telling us we are too stupid to understand that it is not important that Romney birthed the first version of Obamacare and supported cap and trade. 

102 >>>All else equal, I think everyone would go with "smarter". well romney actually is smarter, than. There are different types of intelligence. Newt has two -- cunning/craftiness and glib superficial intelligence, or cleverness. a very verbal-oriented, make-connections type cocktail party intelligence. I have that type of intelligence too. I don't really respect it because I know it's glib. it's not deep. Romney is definitely the smarter guy in deep intelligence, intellect. And on the handmaidens of intelligence -- drive, follow-through, details, etc. A guy who flits from one Bright Shiny to the next isn't going to get a lot done.

103 What exactly is the proof that Romney is so electable?

Pew or Gallup just had a poll out showing both Newt and Romney trailing Obama 50-48. It's just one poll and yeah, Newt has lots of negatives but where's this evidence Mitt is such a strong option vs. Obama for most voters?

Doesn't the fact that Romney is a lousy candidate matter at all?
Posted by: DrewM.
.........
Drew - Newt is un-electable.  That's all that matters.

104 Newt is bi-polar. It means he's crazy, but it also means he can repress his crazyness, and with the right support and pressure (and perhaps medication) he can be made sane 99.9% of the time. On the other hand, Romney is disabled. He will never be able to change his robotic personality. He will never be able to connect to the crowds in a national campaign.

105 As for Newt v Romney on substance, most places I've read say Newt's tax plan is superior.  If I were Newt, I'd re-focus on that and see if he can get Forbes on his economic team.

106 Gingrich's immigration plan does not scream "tom tancredo" like mitt, ace

107 You're damned right Newt is a walking disaster area.

WeÂ’re being herded off a cliff with Gingrich. I suggest we stop. Now. In case anyone out there wants to really take in the severity of NewtÂ’s situation vis-a-vis electability, here it is: via the RCP average, not only does he trail Obama by 11 points, not only does he not hold Obama under 50%, he hasn't even broken 40% himself!

CÂ’mon, folks. We need sanity to prevail here or weÂ’re going to have four more years of Obama and thirty more years of an Obama Supreme Court. There is now way Gingrich beats Obama. No way at all.

108 88 Look at the rasmussen poll. HOLY SHIRT

Ace, we're bOth upset about perry but we have to go with the lesser evil here. Compare newts plan with robotneys. Newts is much more conservative. Thomas sowell endorsment

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at January 23, 2012 10:11 AM (e0OVw)

Where are all of Newt's endorsements from, you know, the people he actually LED in the House in the 1990s?  Where are the former Reagan people saying. "yeah. Newt was really helping us in Congress."  Anyone? 

Bueller?

109 Read the link to 10 things Mitt must do, #3 is come out on the attack against Newt and challenge his ability to run against Obama. Mitt is a organized list guy.

110 After three years of Obama why would anyone be afraid of what Newt might say or do?

111 >>> Ace, married women went for Newt in SC. Married VERY CONSERVATIVE PRIMARY VOTERS went for Newt in SC. Married women, as a group, lean R, but are not hugely R. It's a group we need. Not all married women are gung-ho tea partiers... they swing, but tend to swing towards us.

112 Ace,

About the North South comment.  I really think the difference between Newt's a loser vs Newt's Teh man!  is a world view difference.  North /South , Settlement/Frontier,  Lawsuit /Duel   Negotiator/Fighter  Chamberlain/Churchill etc..
 
I ask you, why Romney after Perry?  Convince me that makes sense..

Newt - Pissed on Clinton's Cornflakes and paid for it with his own party not fighting for him.. (1Bush's Lovely legacy) But, He got the budget and the reform passed. vs Mitt's Romneycare.  Most of us do remember Clinton fighting Newt over Hillarycare!

People see Newt as a fighter.  Romney is a puss.  There, I said it, Romney is a Puss!

Unless Mitt can convince me otherwise, he will loose...

113 you don't listen to beck

114 >>>Where are all of Newt's endorsements from, you know, the people he actually LED in the House in the 1990s? Where are the former Reagan people saying. "yeah. Newt was really helping us in Congress." Anyone? they were establishment sell-outs who were afraid by his fundamentally transformative thinking. all of them. Jim Coburn, too.

115 Agree with most of this. Disagree with criticism of Romney's critique of Obama is "in over his head." That is a shrewd and very effective line that ultimately will be the reason independents who voted for Obama will reject him this time. It's the incompetence that will defeat him. Romney should call him an ideologue, also.

116
I actually think Newt may be a wee bit better at it because he made major mistakes in his personal life in the 80s and 90s, repented, and took a proactive step to change his ways.

Posted by: Y-not at January 23, 2012 10:13 AM (5H6zj)

Or, he just decided to keep his pants zipped for a few years because he really, really wanted to be President.

117

Mittens is going to get bitch slapped in every conservative state. He's veiwed as a RINO, and the conservative based is tired of getting nominee's like him.

118

I really really don't like Romney, but I can't bring myself to throw my lot to Gingrich.

I hate where we are right now.

 

Also, Steyn has an article this morning that's in the same vein

119 That's not politics, it's entertainment.

I hate to tell you, but ever since 2006 (at least) they've been the same thing.  Learn it, live it, love it.  Or at least: learn it, live it, win with it, then change it.

Doesn't this actually make it pretty clear that there is no "establishment."

There are no ninja either.  Just ask them and they'll tell you.

Yes, there is an "establishment," or "party insiders," or whatever you want to call them.  I don't believe they're "all powerful," but I do believe they have a fair deal of power within the party, and that they do, indeed, "select" a candidate with whom they're more comfortable.

This doesn't even require some kind of kooky conspiracy- they likely just run in the same circles anyway, and more-or-less gravitate to one candidate or another relatively naturally.

That makes them no less real, however.

Now, whether that candidate wins the primaries or not is very, very different- and it's quite possible that they're more split than normal this year (like Conservatives generally probably have been).  So I don't think they'll control who our candidate is, but I do think they influence it to some degree.  And a greater degree than you or I do.

120 >>>I ask you, why Romney after Perry? Convince me that makes sense.. temperament and experience. Shit that wins elections. Plus... one marriage, nice family, good looking guys who just seem to fit the part. Again, shit that wins elections. I don't insist on a guy just because he's from my region of the country. Do you? And newt's about as southern as I am. He was an army brat. His dad wound up on that base. Ever notice he has a neutral accent?

121 A lot of men are very concerned about how women will vote. 

Go read Ann Althouse's take (multiple posts) on the Marianne interview. 

Althouse is the person you guys are targeting in the general, isn't she?  She's a feminist and an independent.  She's also clearly leaning Mitt.  She declared it a big nothingburger. 


It's getting a little insulting to have conservative men tell me how women vote and to have them dismiss my views on Newt's infidelities because I'm conservative (when they're conservative, too). 

122
they were establishment sell-outs who were afraid by his fundamentally transformative thinking.

all of them. Jim Coburn, too.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 10:17 AM (nj1bB)

Yep, and his towering virility means we can't expect him to be satisfied by only one woman either.

123

Where are all of Newt's endorsements from, you know, the people he actually LED in the House in the 1990s?  Where are the former Reagan people saying. "yeah. Newt was really helping us in Congress."  Anyone? 

Good question.

124 ben feel the same way.....so i'm not voting in the primary......

125 Chi town - DEAD flat wrong.

My intuition is good.  Newt has something wanted, and wanted badly - even by sadder but wiser Obama voters.

126

Ace is on target with a couple of things...Republicans who suck up to the MFM are idiots.  Period.  Yeah, that goes for whoever thought putting our candidates in front of panels that want to talk about gay rights, how all Republicans and especially Herman Cain and Michelle Bachmann hate black people and womyn, and rich people "EVILE or selfsih bastards" exclusively was a good idea.

Second, you cannot soft-pedal the record of this lefty Chicago machine politician and his retarded clown posse of an adminsitration.  McCain wasn't going to win in 2008, but it would have been significantly closer if he hadn't been such a pantywaist.  The Keystone decision is a tailor-made, state-of-the-art, easily understood bludgeon.  Use it.

One final thought:  Our field stinks.  We all agree.  Enough--as the wise man said, you go to war with the army you've got. 

127 Romney telling me the alternatives are no good still doesn't make me love Romney.

128 >>>isagree with criticism of Romney's critique of Obama is "in over his head." That is a shrewd and very effective line I don't mind that part, but I'd like it to be tougher. And no more nice guy bullshit. Nice guy? Fuck you, go home and play with your kids-- Alec baldwin from Glengarry Glen Ross.

129 Married VERY CONSERVATIVE PRIMARY VOTERS went for Newt in SC. Married women, as a group, lean R, but are not hugely R. It's a group we need. Not all married women are gung-ho tea partiers... they swing, but tend to swing towards us. Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 10:16 AM (nj1bB) SC is an open primary. Where is the exit polling showing Married VERY Conservative (whatever the heck that means) went for Newt, while others didn't. He won women AND independents didn't he?

130 the issues were raised when Clinton was a candidate you obtuse, Medina Truther voting fool.

Of course they were raised, you arrogant ass.  Any weapon you can use, you use.  That said: exactly how well did that weapon work? Hmm?

Obviously it doesn't matter to the majority of Americans- so why worry about it now?

131 Or, he just decided to keep his pants zipped for a few years because he really, really wanted to be President.

He started attending church regularly in 2000 and converted to Catholicism in 2010. 

132

>>>Mittens is going to get bitch slapped in every conservative state. He's veiwed as a RINO, and the conservative based is tired of getting nominee's like him.

 

Indeed, but he'll probably win California, New York, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio, and defintiely Virginia.

 

That's  most of the population of the US.  So he's got that going for him.

 

I can't believe we're going to back Gingrich. He was written off last August for good reason. He's a walking time bomb that will explode at somepoint.

133 It's getting a little insulting to have conservative men tell me how women vote and to have them dismiss my views on Newt's infidelities because I'm conservative (when they're conservative, too). 

Posted by: Y-not at January 23, 2012 10:19 AM (5H6zj)

You can believe Newt is a philandering shitbag without believing his execrable second wife.  Trust, me, NO woman believes the second wife.  She was the first homewrecker, and most of us think she got what she dersevred when the horndog cheated on her.

But he's still a horndog.

134 One of Romney's problems is that he'd feel right at home at Davos.  So would Obama.

135 Fuck the Polls They were all wrong on Regan too.. Polls just recently said Romney was not beatable in FL as in YESTERDAY!

136

Ace, I think you're one of those people who has said, don't make the mistake of thinking everyone thinks like I do.  I'll try to read this whole thing so I don't mistake what you are saying, but from the first few paragraphs I read, it seems like that is what you are doing.

Some of us (and I don't mean to speak for anyone but me here), made a choice, that Newt was the lesser of two evils, if the choice came down to Newt vs. Mitt.  I don't need to worry about sending any message to my betters in the party and media.  And I'm not going to worry about whether Mitt or Newt is more likely to beat Barack in November, because anybody who claims they know is deluding themselves.  I'm making the same decision I did when I backed Perry: choosing from among the available candidates, the one I think would make the best President. 

I didn't decide to narrow the field, but the field has been narrowed.  Newt is my preference now. 

137 55 Also, I reject the idea that Boehner "won" any seats in 2010.  I'm pretty sure that, if Boehner had had his way, they would not have won nearly as many seats.  Don't give credit to Boehner for what the grass-roots (TEA Parties) did despite his efforts.


House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy recruited some of those Tea Party freshmen and the NRCC spent money on 66 races. The Republicans won 52 of those.

138 "Nice guys" don't force the Dali Lama to exit the whitehouse via the back door where the dumpsters and garbage are piled up.

139 Not all married women are gung-ho tea partiers... they swing, but tend to swing towards us. Swingers eh? Go on...

140 Pretty good essay, Ace. I read the entire thing.

141 Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 10:14 AM (nj1bB)

I gravitate towards the folks who are cerebrally deep but have emotional intelligence.  Quite often my peers are brilliant, unbelievably brilliant but I will have to remind them to put on their coat when they run across for coffee cause it's freezing out.  The person who has both is usually very successful.  They can use their personality, their emotional intelligence to their advantage with those who just have mere intelligence.  I don't know who I'm supporting but I heard that Newt Gingrich has written a lot of books and produced a couple of documentaries and was hired as a lobbyist and ran a couple of companies.  So Romney and Gingrich are definitely on the same playing field.  What the electorate wants is for Romney to demonstrate that he has the emotional intelligence that is blatantly out there and in your face with Gingrich.  The debacle with the taxes is making a lot of people think that Mitt doesn't have the emotional intelligence to defeat the greatest showman of our time and I'm not talking Clinton, I'm talking the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

142 But this idea some people have that we literally want to run someone with the anger of a Radio Show Host like Levin... it's nuts to me. That's not politics, it's entertainment. People are seeking validation when they should be seeking fucking political power. Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 10:11 AM (nj1bB) BS. Just fucking BS. Running on people's emotions is what wins elections, not plans, promises or hair styles. A candidate who's able to capture and project people's fears and hopes is the candidate who wins. A candidate who convinces the public that he's the embodiment of THEM, that HE want's what YOU want, is the candidate who wins. Can aspergers Mitt do that? Resoundingly: No. Can Newt do that? It will be an uphill battle with his negatives, but it's quite possible.

143 Where are all of Newt's endorsements from, you know, the people he actually LED in the House in the 1990s?  Where are the former Reagan people saying. "yeah. Newt was really helping us in Congress."  Anyone? 
-----
As someone here pointed out a couple of days ago, perhaps that just means that Newt's temperament is better suited for POTUS than Speaker. 

144 At this point, I'd vote for Mitt if he'd simply say: I'll use Camp David for my vacations. Chances are the chef at the White House is pretty good, and it's a staff position, so I'll eat in a lot. and, hell, since I'm the President I'll have artists come to the White House and perform rather than closing down mid-town.

145

101  "I never thought you would sign on with the Karl Rove/Jennifer Rubin wing."

The Perry affair was just a bone tossed to flyover Amerikkka. 

Sheep without a shepherd, what can I do for those poor bastards(tosses Manhattan back). 

146 The Establishment should have realized this and pushed an alternative to Romney they could live with.

I'm not sure the Establishment actually exists in any sort of organized fashion.  Pawlenty and Perry were taken down for the silliest of reasons by the most conservative in the party.  The Ideology Police won those battles and in doing so, have put the GOP in a perfect place to lose the war.  My point is we have to stop shooting ourselves in the foot by majoring in the minors. 

I've been wavering between Romney and Gingrich for the past week.  At present, I'm leaning toward Romney because as happy as Gingrich's rhetoric makes me during a campaign, I don't think he'd make a good president.

147 Ace said... ” But this idea some people have that we literally want to run someone with the anger of a Radio Show Host like Levin... it's nuts to me. That's not politics, it's entertainment. People are seeking validation when they should be seeking fucking political power.” Yes...exacly Ace.. And that is yet another reason i'm voting for Gingrich. He's got the big brain it takes to manipulate the media and turn their own questioning questions back on them AND leave them amazed that he did it. Id he can take down Romney in this primary, when the whole establishment (both right and left) want him to win, then he's man enough to take down Obama. And yes... Much of the media left elite arr suffering from Obama fatigue. He's let them down so often that they are tired of defending him and they're ready to turn the page. The page they've chosen is Romney, because he's the most center left guy they have to choose from.

148 >>>Althouse is the person you guys are targeting in the general, isn't she? She's a feminist and an independent. She's also clearly leaning Mitt. She declared it a big nothingburger. The interview itself wasn't a big deal. Newt's whole marital history demonstrates a lack of dedication and an instability. I just don't trust guys who fall in and out of love so many times, and leave so many failed marriages. Now, honestly, that is the kind of guy I am (or would be, if I got married younger). I just see a lot of myself in Newt. And I woldn't want me as president. I'd want someone more stable in terms of emotion and lifestyle, more "boring," less bohemian, less promiscuous. That word, promiscuous, is the whole problem with newt, and I just don't mean sexually. I mean intellectually. it's one new darling after another. I just think that's a juvenile thing. Older men are supposed to be wiser, and have put aside childish things.

149 Would you like me to give that Peter King fellow a stern yet supportive and nurturing talking-to?

I can do that for you.

150

?>>>Married VERY CONSERVATIVE PRIMARY VOTERS went for Newt in SC.

>>Married women, as a group, lean R, but are not hugely R. It's a group we need.

.>>Not all married women are gung-ho tea partiers... they swing, but tend to swing towards us.

Republicans in the general elections tend to do well with married women that are registered Republican.

It's the democratic/independent women that we need to win.

South Carolina is going to vote for the Republican candidate in 2012. We can all agree on that. Let's not over analyze the deepest red states.

It's the Michigan, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Ohio, Nevada, New Mexico, and states like that that we need to win to beat Obama.

Newt did great in a really really red state. Good for him. Romney did well in South Carolina(2nd), a light blue state of Iowa(1st or 2nd, who knows), and very good in a light blue state of New Hampshire(1st).

Again, I dislike Romney, but people are making too much out of Newt winning a deeply red and conservative state. It doesn't mean Newt can in in November and it certainly doesn't transform Newt into a small government conservative(which I think he isn't).

 

151 Or, he just decided to keep his pants zipped for a few years because he really, really wanted to be President.

I'll take what I can get.

Wait, you're expecting me to be shocked that a politician made a personal decision for political reasons?

152 Married VERY CONSERVATIVE PRIMARY VOTERS went for Newt in SC. Married women, as a group, lean R, but are not hugely R. It's a group we need. Not all married women are gung-ho tea partiers... they swing, but tend to swing towards us. Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 10:16 AM (nj1bB) The group that was most expected to reject Newt instead did the opposite. ace, you have boxed yourself into a corner again. Newt is not an ideal alternative to Obama, but he is a better one than Mitt.

153 newt's mia culpas remind me of clinton's for some reason; can anyone guarantee that with gingrich there will be no "bimbo eruptions" ? what has he done in the last 15 years, other than lobby washington ?

154 @ace @34. Newt was clearly the idea engine and the face of the Contract With America. He was aided by fair winds but chance favors the prepared. Boehner is perceived by many Republicans as a drag on the Tea Party force that won in 2010. That's a big difference. As for the rest of the post, you are saying Romney would be perfect he weren't Romney. Okay. I doubt he is going to surf over to the HQ and go, man, this guy is right, watch me now! There is no woulda shoulda coulda here. We have the choices we have. I would bet money that Romney is a better technocratic executive that any other candidate. But competence really isn't the issue if it were Obama would already be wearing a lame duck banner. Newt might crash and burn or he might keep flashing brilliance at the right times and win the thing. It will at least be entertaining. Now, the question is what VP would bring the right discipline to and administration. Cheney still available?

155

 Barack Husein Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable tyrant.

I denounce myself.

156 >>>As someone here pointed out a couple of days ago, perhaps that just means that Newt's temperament is better suited for POTUS than Speaker. the only thing about the Speakership that is possibly a qualification for president is the ability to manage competing interests and a bureaucracy and put forth a consistent party line and enforce discipline to it. So you're saying he failed at the one thing that is sort of like being President?

157

"Noot will not attract the middle or independents. "

I was told that McCain would attract the middle and independents. How did that work out?

158 Both Newt and Romney should lay out all their dirty laundry NOW and then fight for the nomination. If it all comes out NOW, there will less for the obama and the dems to go after in September no matter who the candidate is.

159 This post seems to contain an excessive number of words to be of any help in choosing the optimal projectile weapon.

160 My intuition is good.  Newt has something wanted, and wanted badly - even by sadder but wiser Obama voters.
Posted by: SarahW
............
Newt has something wanted by you.  Sorry, you are projecting which is a very dangerous thing to do.  Your intuition sucks on this.

Newt loses Independents/Obama voters.

Not only that, Newt revitalizes a demoralized Dem base who will not show up for Obama in the same numbers this year if he runs against Mitt.

It's a double whammy.

161 >>>The group that was most expected to reject Newt instead did the opposite. oh for christ's sakes. whatever, continue insisting that the rest of the country is just like the reddest of the red in a red state.

162 Ann Coulter is right.  South Carolinians would rather have a candidate make snotty remarks about Obama than win.  Enjoy the show.  But ask yourself this.  How were Clinton and Gingrich able balance the budget?  They gutted the military.  Just saying.

163

133 -

And all I would ask anyone, male or female, is to consider how Newt's relative horndoggedness effects his potential as President, and try to reduce the personal distaste for it as much as possible. 

I can understand why one might argue that someone with his personal history doesn't have the temperament for the job, but I do believe that depends on you deciding he has not changed over the years.  Again, maybe you believe he hasn't.  All I'm asking for is that we all consider these candidates with as much objectivity as we can. 

164 So you're saying he failed at the one thing that is sort of like being President? Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 10:25 AM (nj1bB) A lot of great leaders have failed at some time in their lives and still went on to greatness. How did that Galippoli thing work out for Churchill?

165 blah blah blah. Who can win over the middle? All the "Romney is a rino" and "Newt has a weird married life" will not matter. Who can win over the independents? Who can get the precious middle?

166 I just don't trust guys who fall in and out of love so many times, and leave so many failed marriages.

Oh for pity's sake.  Two failed marriages.  The second one was clearly a marriage of convenience for one or both of them after she left him.  He fell in love during a six year separation. 

I am highly amused that Santorum, who I was told was the buttoned-up candidate who wanted to play morality cop, is not the only one running on the platform of holier than thou.

167 yes, married women driven by tea party ideology will put look past that. what about women who aren't as addicted to ideology and this Great Tea Party Cause of winnign the corner office at Conservative, Inc., taking it from the establishment? What about women that just lean R?

168 can anyone guarantee that with gingrich there will be no "bimbo eruptions" ?

I can guarantee there will be bimbo eruptions.  The difference is Newt isn't trying to pitch a story about being a faithful father/husband like Clinton was.  People know he's a scoundrel and bastard up front.

169 29 It may be understandable that we're angry, but neither should we be proud of it, nor think that angry thoughts and angry words are smart thoughts and smart words.

Anger is one of the seven deadly sins, unless there's a special Except for Obama clause.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 09:55 AM (nj1bB)

I agree up to a point, ace.  But I think there's a difference between senseless anger and righteous anger, and the anger in the conservative sphere is squarely in the latter camp.

What Romney needs is to show us a little "fire in the belly."  That's really what this is about.  The anger is there in the electorate because none of the GOP at the forefront of the party seem particularly interested in actually DOING anything to change the direction of this country.  Romney himself just seems to be running for President because he wants to be President and because it's "his turn," not because he wants to fix the mistakes of administrations past and present and set us back on a track to economic prosperity. 

I know in my bones that Newt is no different, and that he's only running for President because he wants to be President; but at least he can fake an interest in averting calamity.  Romney seems to be on a permanent setting of "aloof."  To say he's tone deaf is the understatement of the year.  Frankly, it makes it seem that he thinks the American public is stupid.  We aren't stupid.  We're a helluva lot more savvy about economics and politics and geopolitical relations today than we were even four years ago.  We expect our candidates to acknowledge that and address our concerns, and Romney is just not doing that.

I don't like any of the remaining candidates, but I'm going to be stuck with one of them.  Romney HAS to start upping his game, or else he isn't fit to be President.  If he won't even get the claws out when it comes to saving this country from its own internal mismanagement, how can I expect him to smack down provocations from the Mid-East, China, Russia, et al?  He needs to start leading, not just hanging back with the pack.

170

Ace, you were right weeks ago when you said that we cannot win this election by insulting the people who voted for Obama in 2008 but are unhappy with his performance. We have to win over a whole lot of them to win this election.  It's a damn sight easier to do that by telling them that Obama is a SCOAMF who let them down, than to tell them he is an evil Marxist who is out to destroy America and they were idiots to have voted for him the first time.

Jimmy Carter had a whole lot of committed Marxist and left-wing activists in his Adminstration.  It's pretty clear from his actions as ex-President that he probably agreed with them.  But he was tossed from office because he was a miserable failure of a President and people simply could not think of another four years of him stumbling around trying to find his own ass.  So it is with Obama.  We really have to let go of the anger and bitterness, and go at him as simply a failure who weill not get it right with another four years.

It's also easier to win swing districts like mine in the Philly suburbs with a candidate who oozes competence and success, and much harder with a guy whose personal and professional lives have been a mess for 20 years, who seems to love to tilt at windmills and picks fights with people who buy ink by the barrel.

Romney understands this. 

171 May those of us who are rational please be spared the "but Reagan trailed in the polls too!" and the "polls don't matter!" memes? 

You're using an exception to a rule for predictive purposes instead of the rule itself--which is that polling usually indicates how things will actually unfold. Did you reject the polls that showed Democrats losing the House? Did you reject the polls that showed Scott Brown winning in MA? Yeah, I'll bet you didn't. So, you can't say that polls don't matter and bring up Reagan every time you're supporting an unelectable candidate. You give me Reagan? I give you Goldwater, Angle, O'Donnell, and Paladino. Besides, Newt is in no way Reagan. I'm pretty sure Reagan never had +50 unfavorability. He was warm and funny. Newt is just aloof and acerbic. We're going to lose with Newt, and we're going to lose big. He'll probably take the House down with him.

172 One good line of attack for Mitt would be; "I made $200M in the private sector.  Nothing to do with government.  You made $1.6M by polishing up Fannie and Freddie.  Tell us again how much money you've made in the real private sector, Mr. Washington outsider."

173 Romney must be scared. This has put the boot to him being "inevitable".

174 Mitt never managed anything. He was a money guy. He doesn't do angry.

175 >>>It's a double whammy. It's a triple whammy, because we get all that in exchange for a guy who has called himself "moderate" in the "gestalt." We are giving up votes for purely rhetorical position without getting substantive positions in return.

176

Newt has had more ex-wives than all 44 previous presidents combined.

Romney has more policy positions than all 44 previous presidents combined.

Yay. Go us.

177 Romney is definitely the smarter guy in deep intelligence, intellect.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 10:14 AM (nj1bB)

 

Meh.  I don't see it.  Romney has been distinctly unimpressive in his arguments.

178 So you're saying he failed at the one thing that is sort of like being President?

He failed?  The fact that he hasn't pulled in as many endorsements as 'Here's a check for you' Mitt is a sign that he failed? 


One term governor of non-representative state (whose biggest achievement is Masscare) versus Beltway war horse. Right now I'm leaning war horse.

179 Longer always equals smarter, right? So you angry, mouth-breathing conservatives need to stop your bitching and listen to the smart people. After all, Ace wrote all those words!

180 Face it. There isn't one damn thing Romney can do that will change the minds of people who view politics as sport, and sport alone.

Successful businessman = Elite
Venture capitalist  = Vulture capitalist
Decent family man = Dull
God-fearing man = MORMON!!!

No. Let's cheer on the guy with a history of abusing the trust of both the voters and his family.

Good choice.

181 Meh.  I don't see it.  Romney has been distinctly unimpressive in his arguments.

Yeah, I'm not getting the Romney is smarter thing, either.  Both are smart enough for the job. 

182 We are giving up votes for purely rhetorical position without getting substantive positions in return.
Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 10:29 AM (nj1bB)

You keep saying that but like claiming Mitt is super electable, constant repetition doesn't make it true.

Again, look at Newt vs. Mitt on taxes and Social Security reform to name just two.

183 If Romeny can't beat somebody as flawed as Newt, what chance does he have against Obama?

for 5 years, Romney should have been honing his Bain response and his tax record response. He's.... had....five....years...... to.... do.... that. But, during the last 5 debates he totally flubbed the answer, each and every single time.

184 And I hate Gingrich,  btw.  He has a character I revile.  It's just that his weakness is our strength right now.  He operates out of interest, self interest, but since he has to be a conservative right now to get what he wants, he will be.   What's been missing in presidential politics for 12 years at least is ferocious intellect;  and employed in the direction of full-throated defense of American exceptionalism by someone who understands it or at least it's real history it works to the benefit of all and most especially conservatism.

I know that need for ferocious intellect broke Ace's heart.  Perry had everything but that.   The sloping forehead and stumbling inept rhetoric murdered him despite his strengths. He couldn't stake a claim or make his case.

That's no reason to head to Romney Town;  not yet; not yet...
If Romney is competent that's a net negative for conservatism if it means his view of the role of government of our lives becomes the Republican standard.   If he can "git er done"  that's a net negative if it means persuading people the federal government can or  should force people to buy anything let alone insurance - without even amendment of the constitution;  establishing more "income equality"  or "fairness" with a VAT, for example..

185 Romney hate trumps everything now. We will lose it all with Newt. Oh but it feels so good. Newt = Howard Dean.

186 >>>It's a damn sight easier to do that by telling them that Obama is a SCOAMF who let them down, than to tell them he is an evil Marxist who is out to destroy America and they were idiots to have voted for him the first time. Not in the primaries, and you don't have to insult such people. You can instead express their actual anger at Obama -- they're not happy with Obama's economic performance, for example. So you don't have to be shy about saying, for example, "This is unacceptble. Unacceptable!" That's why I'm pitiching the economy as the place to get angry on. One, that's what the independents are angry about, and two, Romney might really be angry about that, so this wouldn't be contrived and false.

187 House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy recruited some of those Tea Party freshmen and the NRCC spent money on 66 races. The Republicans won 52 of those.

Kevin McCarthy is not John Boehner, in case you hadn't noticed.
And he recruited them because they were Tea Party types- that the Tea Party then dragged over the finish-line.

Even granting that Boehner saw the Tea Parties as a source of political power and that it was his strategy to recruit from them- he's done everything he can to squander that political capital by continuous capitulations that he thinks are oh-so-clever.

188 143 Where are all of Newt's endorsements from, you know, the people he actually LED in the House in the 1990s?  Where are the former Reagan people saying. "yeah. Newt was really helping us in Congress."  Anyone? 
-----
As someone here pointed out a couple of days ago, perhaps that just means that Newt's temperament is better suited for POTUS than Speaker. 

Posted by: Y-not at January 23, 2012 10:22 AM (5H6zj)

Oh sweet baby Jesus, do you not know that you sound EXACTLY like Valerie Jarrett extolling Barack Obama's otherworldy intelligence, and explaining away his history of failing upward?  "He was never suited for jobs other people do."  How's that worked out for us?

Newt is running on his record as Speaker of the House.  If not for that, he is just another Mark Levin or Thomas Sowell, a great polemicist and author, and we aren't asking any of those guys to run for President, are we? 

He's like the conservative Adlai Stevenson.

189 I have to reject the whole idea of Newt-as-Cheap-Conservatism, as well as the notion that his debate success is only due to throwing out red meat. Look more closely at what he does in his debates: 1) Unlike almost any Republican I can think of, he challenges the false liberal premise underlying every question. That's not just attacking the media, that' demolishing their argument. I remember that in one of the early debates, Romney was asked "Since Obama's stimulus plan has created/saved x million jobs, why do you think your ideas are better?" , and Romney responded by giving his plan. Newt would have begun by explaining why the jobs saved number is a fraud, and demonstrated that the economy is not recovering. 2) Newt demonstrates an encyclopedic knowledge of everything involving government, and lots about the private sector. If you want to reform the government, it helps to know how the government works. It is at least as compelling an argument as "I ran Bain and a tiny liberal state, so I can do the federal gov. too." 3) Newt does his homework. In every state, he has command of several local issues that he can bring into the debate. This jumped out at me during the New Hampshire debate, when Romney said that he wasnt' familiar with New Hampshire emissions problems. He has a house there, for crying out loud, and he lived next door in Mass for a very long time. All he has to do is hire staff to look up a couple of local issues that are good for his campaign, and bone up on them. That he is too clueless/lazy to do that helps explain why he can't close the deal with voters. 4) Newt has an actual history of conservative accomplishment. Don't blow off his retaking of the House--he did it when everyone else, including the leadership, thought it was crazy and impossible. It was a great achievement, and a huge sea change. That Boehner won the House when people were comfortable with the idea, and when the Tea Party was creating all the momentum---meh. 5) Everyone talks about how Newt was thrown out by his own party. Everyone forgets that after they got rid of him, they destroyed the Republican brand by going on an eight-year spending spree. Was Newt a bad leader, or did he just get in the way of too many pork barrel projects? I also remember that when Newt pushed through a substantial, and beneficial, change in school lunch laws, the MSM claimed that he was starving kids, and the whole Republican party sat on its hands, and let him twist in the wind, because they wanted to stay on the media's good side. I am not very impressed with the "good conservatives" who got rid of him. I know Tom Coburn was part of that group, but so were Tom Delay and John Boehner.

190 One good line of attack for Mitt would be; "I made $200M in the private sector.  Nothing to do with government.  You made $1.6M by polishing up Fannie and Freddie.  Tell us again how much money you've made in the real private sector, Mr. Washington outsider."


But he wrote some books!!

191 Coulter is probably right, but it's rich to hear her--out of everyone--bashing snide remarks.

192 Romney's only strength is his weakness;  his inability to provoke anything but resignation in disillusioned and demotivated sadder but wiser Obama voters.

193 Romney is smarter than Gingrich? You, sir, are smoking crack. I know the deflation of your Rick Perry love doll was yraumatic, but come on.

194 >>>If Romney is competent that's a net negative for conservatism if it means his view of the role of government of our lives becomes the Republican standard. If he can "git er done" that's a net negativ What? You guys do realize that a republicn needs to make the government work, right? Are you planning just to botch the job? And do what Clinton quips -- "Republicans spend all campaign season saying the government doesn't work, then they get elected and spend their terms proving it." This idea that seems rampant is nuts. It's like you want someone to badly mismanage basic ministerial functions so you can add that to the ideological case. Government should be much, much smaller. It should also function passably well at the things it does do.

195

I don't understand some of the defenses of Newt that I am seeing now.

Put some of his marital baggage aside, I could have sworn most "conservatives" decided Newt wasn't a conservative last August.

Remember his right wing social engineering comment? He was perfectly happy to shit on the conservatives putting their neck out to vote on Paul Ryan's plan.

Remember when Newt jumped on the Global Warming train when it was popular?

Remember when he and Clinton gutted the military?

This isn't a primary between Lisa Murkowski and Joe Miller. There isn't really a stark contrast in the beliefs of Gingrich and Romney. They're essentially the same people politically.

I would have no problem getting on the Gingrich bandwagon if I honestly believed he was tangibly more conservative than Mitt Romney, but I don't think he is.

He's a walking Republican New Deal waiting to happen. He's got a million ideas and they almost always involve the government.

 

And this doesn't mean I like Romney, I don't, but I'm not buying into this Cain/Bachmann Not-Romney of the moment argument.

I'm not going to let my hatred of Romney cloud my judgement to such an extent that I pretend Newt Gingrich is a true blue conservative.

196 Romney's best moment was his speech after winning the New Hampshire primary.  He laid out Obama's failures in an almost clinical fashion, and it worked.  That's the message he needs to focus on - Obama is a failure. 

197 If I were Newt, I'd go back to being positive and focus on his tax plan.  Let Romney expose himself as the whiny guy he is. 

198 I don't mind if Newt and Romney go after each other like rabid dogs, but let's also keep our eye on the ball and bash obama over and over again. And then bash him some more just for the hell of it

199 On the plus side, we're not talking about Luap Nor anymore.

200

Romney has money and and established campaign. What does Newt have to battle Obama and his gazillions?

201 Sufficient compromise and mutual respect will be the keys to winning this election. 

202 Interestingly, ace never jumped on the Asperger's Mitt carriage until it was clear he's a loser. I think ace gets off from supporting losers and climaxes when they fail.

203 Thanks Burke for summing up the hard aspects of Newt's strengths,  as opposed to the natural emanations of them which I tend to concentrate on.

204

Because while Newt can throw out red meat like a champ, I really think he's a walking disaster area.

 

Newt Gingrich's victory in the South Carolina primary is a victory for all of the conservatives who have shouted back at the TV when liberal reporters or commentators make statements we don't like.   We've done it for fifty years (my old man used to yell at Walter Cronkite or David Brinkley), and now we finally have someone who not only will shout back, but will do it in person and to their faces with gusto.   Gingrich is saying all the things we right-wing curmudgeons have wanted to say for decades.   Bravo, we say.   Bravo.  

But so what?   What did shouting at the TV ever gain anybody?   Gingrich's victory is really a victory for the pathetic wing of the party, the wing that doesn't care whether it wins, whether it actually gains power and can govern, so long was we can vent our spleens. 

A Gingrich leading the party in November likely means not winning the Senate, perhaps losing the House, and certainly not gaining the Presidency.   And that would be a tragedy.   

205 You can say attacks on Mitt and Bain are super unfair and stuff but you do know that's not going to stop Obama from making them, right?

How do you think a leveraged buy-out guy who has shut down steel mills is going to play in Ohio and Pennsylvania?

How do you think the guy with 4 houses is going to play in Florida or Nevada?

I guess we don't need those states or something.

I'd be more inclined not to worry about such things if Mitt was able to make the case for himself and had some super exciting idea about fixing the economy but the fact that he can't make a case on those things to GOP primary voters who should be predisposed to agree with him, is worrying to say the least. If you can't sell conservatives on capitalism, I'm not sure how you're going to sell it to blue collar moderates in swing states?

I guess we're just supposed to ignore that stuff because...Electability!

206 Its very simple guys.... Its either Newt or Mitt. Now, we all know Mitt can beat Obama. On that I think we can all agree. But once he's in, will it essentially be another 4 years of the same 'green policies'? Will he muzzle the EPA or any other left leaning agency? Now think about Newt. It'll surely be harder for him to win, but the media is 1-tired of defending Mr Incompetant Blamerboy and 2-have a ready Media target for the next 4 years. besides Gingrich is proving that he's more than capable of defending himself against the media. And my gut feeling is Think about those questions.

207 So the movie was good then?

208 197 Romney's best moment was his speech after winning the New Hampshire primary.  He laid out Obama's failures in an almost clinical fashion, and it worked.

I agree that all three of them (including Santorum) need to lay out positive cases for their candidacies.  But I'd quibble with you saying "it worked" because it did not work well enough for him to win Iowa and South Carolina. 

209 Newt is running on his record as Speaker of the House. If not for that, he is just another Mark Levin or Thomas Sowell, a great polemicist and author, and we aren't asking any of those guys to run for President, are we?

I genuinely like Newt, and I have great memories of the 1994 elections.

Unfortunately, I also have bad memories of the 1998 elections. 

210 >>>Romney is smarter than Gingrich? You, sir, are smoking crack. Guy who got a JD and MBA from Harvard simultaneously vs. guy who got a Ph.D. from Tulane? Guy who made over $250 million for himself -- billions for his investors -- vs. guy who made $1.6 million trying to convince people Fannie Mae was a conservative operation?

211 118

I really really don't like Romney, but I can't bring myself to throw my lot to Gingrich.

I hate where we are right now.

 

Also, Steyn has an article this morning that's in the same vein

Posted by: Ben at January 23, 2012 10:18 AM (wuv1c)

+1

I know one thing: It wasn't amazing luck and incredible coincidence that created this country and our Constitution. He didn't do it for nothing to see it pissed away. 

How about this: We needed the Great Depression to toughen us up and free millions from the farm and other regular work to be available to fight.

212 Even granting that Boehner saw the Tea Parties as a source of political power and that it was his strategy to recruit from them- he's done everything he can to squander that political capital by continuous capitulations that he thinks are oh-so-clever.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Team Meteor. Now with Cheesecake at January 23, 2012 10:32 AM (8y9MW)

Don't be too tough on the Weeping Boner.  He's a stone cold coward and baby.  He can't help himself.

It's a shame, because he'd be a hoot just to have around (the crying is funny every now and again), but he is death as Speaker.

213 It's not good to be angry, but it's good and healthy to notice that the water is getting pretty uncomfortable if you are the frog in the pot.

Don't put this on us ace, just because you don't have it in you to make your liberal friends call you a doo doo head.
We didn't do this.
If anything we're guilty of not being angry enough in a more timely and productive manner.

Yeah, I'm angry, but I'm more resolute and survival oriented than I am filled with any fleeting emotion.

 

214 Smart people know that no hill is worth dying on.

215 oh for christ's sakes. whatever, continue insisting that the rest of the country is just like the reddest of the red in a red state. Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 10:26 AM (nj1bB) Seriously? Your prediction fails and you use that failure as evidence it will succeed later. If Newt's behavior did not turn off Conservative women why would you expect it to turn off Moderate women?

216

This is officially Ace's best.post.evah.

217  FL is gone,  if Willard is going to save Amerikkka better buy a house in NV pronto,  hell buy 10.

218 Romney hate trumps everything now. We will lose it all with Newt. Oh but it feels so good. Newt = Howard Dean.

Posted by: whatever at January 23, 2012 10:31 AM (O7ksG)

And to continue the analogy, Romney = Kerry? How did that work out for the Dems?

Perhaps we should skip ahead to the idealistic Senator phase...

219 We're committing suicide! And I know about suicide.

220 Face it, both these guys suck.

Any time or effort spent trying to reconcile them against one another is probably better put to use towards flipping a house or senate seat from D to R or holding onto the ones we have.

221 And I hate Gingrich,  btw.  He has a character I revile.  It's just that his weakness is our strength right now.  He operates out of interest, self interest, but since he has to be a conservative right now to get what he wants, he will be.   What's been missing in presidential politics for 12 years at least is ferocious intellect;  and employed in the direction of full-throated defense of American exceptionalism by someone who understands it or at least it's real history it works to the benefit of all and most especially conservatism.

Knowledge about a very limited aspect of the world does not fucking equate to intelligence!!! Good God people.

By your measure then Perry is a fucking genius because of his in-depth knowledge of running the state of Texas and Alec Baldwin is a fucking genius about being an asshole.

Newt knows history. That does not make him a fucking genius.

222 Seriously? Your prediction fails and you use that failure as evidence it will succeed later.

If Newt's behavior did not turn off Conservative women why would you expect it to turn off Moderate women?

Please, Ace, explain why this group shouldn't have gone to Santorum or Romney if they think family values is issue number one.

223 Anger is one of the seven deadly sins, unless there's a special Except for Obama clause.

No it's not, Ace.  Wrath is one of the Seven Deadly Sins.  I'm pretty sure when you dig into the root Latin of the words (or Greek, depending), you'll find that that's not just a sophistic difference.  Even Jesus got Angry.  And Emotion (as someone pointed out) is a huge motivator in elections.  Reagan's "Are you better off today than you were four years ago?" question was rational, but it was also emotional.

224

So if Romney just goes against all his instincts and record for the next 10 months, he's our guy?

How did we get here?

 

225 UR DOIN IT WRONG! MOAR POWER!

226 WTF? Ace is now a Romney man? Come on Ace - you had a chance to join Meggie Mac on that train over 12 months ago. How come she's smart enough to figure out she's for Romney pretty quickly - but it takes you a year longer than her? Funny as hell. Newt Gingrich - is the outsider. Oh yeah - he's the outsider because he was thrown outside. So any argument that he's an "insider" is pure shit. If Gingrich were an "insider" he'd have at least someone inside the beltway endorsing him - which he doesn't. He's the outsider - he's the "Obi - Wan" that can finally kick the losers in the establishment out of power. He's not perfect but - we can't fix this nation until we fix the GOP - and that will take kicking the low life loser establishment out of town.

227

"Gingrich's victory is really a victory for the pathetic wing of the party, the wing that doesn't care whether it wins,"

Yet that wing won in SC and will quite possibly win in Florida.

 

228 Romney has money and and established campaign. What does Newt have to battle Obama and his gazillions?

Assuming Palin follows through and really endorses him (not just in SC) - and that Perry also campaigns for him (which he said he would) - then Newt has some great fundraising assets there. 

And Newt has that big backer for the Super PAC (the casino guy).  It seems as though the horse's head Sununu left on his pillow a couple of weeks ago when he called him (and all of Newt's backers) "stupid" didn't have the desired effect. 

229

It's a shame, because he'd be a hoot just to have around (the crying is funny every now and again), but he is death as Speaker.

Posted by: really ... at January 23, 2012 10:37 AM (JlrGK)

I'd love to replace Boehner with a conservative as Speaker, but if the institutions of the government are led by Romney, McConnell, and Boehner, the latter would be the most conservative.

Which, by the way, demolishes the argument a Republican congress would force a president Romney right.

230 Guy who got a JD and MBA from Harvard simultaneously vs. guy who got a Ph.D. from Tulane?



Well, Harvard is the Tulane of the north.

231

I agree with pretty much everything on this--Newt's walking nitro who is radioactive when it comes to women who don't spit when they say "Obama." And Romney is a lukewarm rice cereal sandwich that threatens to scorch your plate with its ability to spin.

But I don't see Romney being able to transform himself into any kind of fighter against the left. When was the last time he put himself out there--took a position on the right--that might cost him his moderate-to-liberal street cred? I can think of one--the auto bailout. That's it. He's far, far more comfortable kneecapping those to his right than those to his left--and in language liberals would happily use (hence, the bleak irony of the successful Bain card being played against him).

His commercials take the fight to the President, to be sure. But not he himself. Instead, it comes across as insincere, situational, opportunistic. Just like the man's post-2006 conversion. Thus, what are fairly effective commercials are undercut by the fact that the voice at the end of the ad says "I'm Mitt Romney, and I approve this message." Sure, you do *now.* For the moment. But who knows what tomorrow might bring? The message is thwarted by the messenger.

At this point I'm left hoping for a brokered convention, which is a fantasy, I know.

232

161

Newt loses Independents/Obama voters.

Not only that, Newt revitalizes a demoralized Dem base who will not show up for Obama in the same numbers this year if he runs against Mitt.

It's a double whammy.

That matches the giddy happiness on the left right now.

233 you guys know Newt's never been in the business sector his own life, apart from lobbying government arms? a stint in academics, then a career in politics. Okay.

234

Ace, you sure have a way of saying alot about something just to placate your own doubts about this Squish Romney. You can't even force yourself to say the words out loud anymore. He is a SQUISH. He is GW without the cute charisma and dopy charm. And he will govern just like Nixon. Try anything and everything and watch it all go to shit. Yay, I want 4 years of that crap so bad I can taste it,YUM! 

235 Ace, are you planning to go to the CPAC meeting in February?

236 So if Romney just goes against all his instincts and record for the next 10 months, he's our guy?

Yeah...the one guy we couldn't nominate after the Democrats Demonpassed Obamacare is still the most likely nominate.

What
The
F@#!

237 I'm looking for the DeadZone guy to shake Gingrich's hand so he can tell us how to vote. The missiles are flying. Hallelujah, Hallelujah!

238 This is an election that there was no way that we could screw this up, and yet we have. The year of the Tea Party and results of the 2010 elections point the way to a conservative rise and now the GOP choice is really going to come down to either Newt or Mitt? Obama is really blessed with stupid opponents. I guess I want a brokered convention because at this point I don't see how either Newt or Mitt beats Obama.

239

Ace, if private sector experience is now necessary in a GOP candidate, why were you pro Perry? Outside of his military stint, he's been a professional politician for a very long time.

 

240 Good thing we got rid of Pawlenty because he was boring, and Perry because he said "heartless." Imagine where we'd be otherwise.

Posted by: Slublog at January 23, 2012 10:02 AM (0nqdj)

*waves frantically* 

You've still got me!  I'm here!

241 ace at January 23, 2012 10:35 AM (nj1bB)

You said "What?" HEAR what I'm saying.   Use it to refine your pitch if nothing else.  The overarching difficulty with Romney is that having him exhibit competence, quiet or otherwise, at enacting his view of competent government, is a bad thing.

I do not wish him to be good at persuading Americans a federal mandate to purchase anything, let alone insurance is acceptable.

He will never make the government "run"  in terms of day to day operations like a corporation; no president ever will again if one ever did.  He is not the boss of congress and you know that.   What will he push for,  what will he approve.   Nothing I want,  I'll tell you that.

242 Look, I don't ask for much.  I want a solid, reliable advocate for fiscal sanity and limited government, someone I know won't sell me out for a handful of magic beans.

Instead we got...what, exactly, out of this field?

Newt's succeeding because he's showing something desperately wanted and not otherwise in evidence.  I wonder how much of this is a (probably pointless) shot across Romney's bow to get him to correct course...not that he will.

I'm just not convinced the GOP as it currently stands can even produce a candidate fit for the challenges at hand, either in the arena of getting elected, or the ugly business of Doing What Needs Doing afterwards.

243 you guys know Newt's never been in the business sector his own life, apart from lobbying government arms?

a stint in academics, then a career in politics.

Okay.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 10:40 AM (nj1bB)

I heard him say yesterday that he ran 4 small businesses.  He was emphasizing that he understood what small business owners were going through.

244 I'm not going to let my hatred of Romney cloud my judgement to such an extent that I pretend Newt Gingrich is a true blue conservative.

And if anyone around here were making such statements, we'd all join you in laughing at them.

We're not saying he's a true blue conservative.  We're saying he's better than Romney.  The actual conservatives in this race have already been run out.

Which, I suppose, should be enough proof that the Republican Party is not the Conservative Party.

245 234 you guys know Newt's never been in the business sector his own life, apart from lobbying government arms?

Perry didn't have a lot of business experience, either. 


Seriously, I've never subscribed to the capitalist = conservative line of reasoning. 

246 Ace, this is looking like Christine O'Donnell all over again. Personally, saying "I told you so" afterwords doesn't really make up for losing. What is it with the GOP that we can't figure out political power is the most important thing if you are playing politics? Why do the Dems just instinctively know that and we don't? 

Ugh. Time to buy more beans and bullets.

247 Who can win over the independents? Who can get the precious middle?

Whoever looks like they're going to win. They're only interest is in being on the winning side. They'll create whatever fantasy they need to in order to justify their decision.

248 Interesting number of new morons on this thread today.


Hmmm.

249 Mitt never managed anything. He was a money guy. He doesn't do angry.

I agree. Mitt does calculating, which is probably more desirable in a president than angry.

Newt's angry is appealing in fighting against SCOAMF. The question in my mind is what will he fight for once the election is over and he finds himself in the Oval Office.

250 why would a republican attack bain and Romney's tenure at bain  in the first place ? what has Romney done at bain that deserves such conservative scorn ? obama will use bain to drive 99% vs. 1, unfarineess and redistribution bullshit, what was gingriche's attacks about ? same thing.  he took lefty position about venture capital and made it his own. 

251 We're not saying he's a true blue conservative.  We're saying he's better than Romney.  The actual conservatives in this race have already been run out.

^This.

Right now I'm leaning Newt.  The other two could get my vote, but they need to show me something.

252 237 So if Romney just goes against all his instincts and record for the next 10 months, he's our guy?

Yeah...the one guy we couldn't nominate after the Democrats Demonpassed Obamacare is still the most likely nominate.

What
The
F@#!

Posted by: 18-1 at January 23, 2012 10:41 AM (7BU4a)

So let's pick the guy who actually SUPPORTED a FEDERAL mandate to buy health insurance! 

The winning argument is that health insurance is a state issue and should be given to the states to manage as people in the states want.  This cannot be a one-size-fits-all solution.  This is Romney's plan.  If you don't like the mandate in Massachusetts, don't live there. 

253 Newt's angry is appealing in fighting against SCOAMF. The question in my mind is what will he fight for once the election is over and he finds himself in the Oval Office.

I asked that yesterday. Newt is fighting for Newt. Anyone who thinks he gives a damn about anything other than feeding his own ego is blind.

254

I keep seeing people say that if Newt is our candidate there's no chance in hell he'll beat Obama, but Romney can.  Can someone please explain that to me?  Seriously.  It seems that most people feel he'll turn away the moderate vote, but why would that be the case?  We all know he's not as conservative as he claims.  Why should moderates and undecided squishes be any more leery of Newt than of Romney?  Is it the character flaws?  I thought it was only far right social cons who cared about character issues, but that didnt' seem to stop them from voting en masse for Gingrinch in SC. 

I genuinely don't get it. 

I mean this sincerely: someone, please enlighten me.

255 He's a walking Republican New Deal waiting to happen. He's got a million ideas and they almost always involve the government.

The fact that he's conjuring up visions of JFK for his new space policy is not encouraging. We'll see what he actually unveils this week, I guess.

256 Don't worry, I'm sure there's no chance that the Democrats will run ads showing Mitt saying $300,000 isn't very much money and then compare that to the average household income in the US and various states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Florida, North Carolina, etc.

Nope, no chance of that at all.

Rest easy and vote Mitt!

257

Guy who got a JD and MBA from Harvard simultaneously

That's like winning the gold in both rythmic gymnastics and synchronized diving ...  Gold medals ... indicative of some skill, but far short of being a real gold medal gymnast or diver.

JDs and MBAs are jokes.

258 The winning argument is that health insurance is a state issue and should be given to the states to manage as people in the states want.  This cannot be a one-size-fits-all solution.  This is Romney's plan.  If you don't like the mandate in Massachusetts, don't live there.


But, but, but....we only like states' rights when they like what we want them to like!!!

259 Gingrich's victory is really a victory for the pathetic wing of the party, the wing that doesn't care whether it wins Posted by: The Regular Guy at January 23, 2012 10:36 AM (qHCyt) Yeah, that Bob Dole-John McCain wing of the party is really terrible. Which is, coincidentally, the Mitt Romney wing of the party. The "boring-must-be-electable-cause-the-New-York-Times-told-us-so" wing of the party.

260 Kentucky Republican Sen. Rand Paul’s press secretary Moira Bagley tweeted on Monday that Transportation Security Administration officials were detaining her boss in Nashville, Tenn. “Just got a call from @senrandpaul,” Bagley tweeted at about 10 a.m. on Monday. “He’s currently being detained by TSA in Nashville.” Bagley hasn’t immediately responded to The Daily Caller’s request for comment for more details. Texas Congressman and current Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul – Sen. Rand Paul’s father – placed a post on Facebook about the news as well. “My son Rand is currently being detained by the TSA at the Nashville Airport,” Ron Paul posted. “I’ll share more details as the situation unfolds.” Ron Paul adds, via Twitter, that the TSA detained his son “for refusing full body pat-down after anomaly in body scanner.” Sen. Rand Paul’s Facebook page has a post about the incident too. “Senator Paul is being detained at the Nashville Airport by the TSA,” Sen. Rand Paul’s Facebook post reads. “We will update you as the situation develops. Yeah ya gotta give those TSA brain surgeons credit ha? Way win friends and influence people in Congress ?

261 Well, on the plus side, at least ace didn't call us bigots for supporting Gingrich. 



_{^{Or I assume he didn't... I only skimmed that post.}} 

262 This Romney fellow makes me look like Santa Claus.

263

Coulter and Ace aren't getting the full picture on Newt's blasting the media.  The people that like that also equate his blasting the media to actually blasting the powers that be.  We don't like the GOP elitists telling us who to vote for.  The GOP establishment wants big government to continue just as long as they have the reins.  Hence, Newt's blasting the media also feels to the voters like he's blasting the establishment.

That anger that GOP voters and independent voters have is greater towards DC than it is to the media.  Newt's captured it mainly because Romney keeps getting those silly insider endorsements.

 

The best thing that happended to Romney this week was the Jeb Bush decided to hold off on his endorsement....even though we would vote for Jeb in a heartbeat, his endorsement would have been a nail in the coffin.

264 Ace Let's just clarify this. So, basically you are saying I should stop referring to Obama as- Mr. President?

265

I'm not going to let my hatred of Romney cloud my judgement to such an extent that I pretend Newt Gingrich is a true blue conservative.

>>And if anyone around here were making such statements, we'd all join you in laughing at them.

>>We're not saying he's a true blue conservative. We're saying he's better than Romney. The actual conservatives in this race have already been run out.

I don't see how Newt Gingrich is more conservative than Romney in aggregate. I would say they're about even.

 

I guess what it comes down to is this. I can't handle another four years of Obama. None of the remaining candidates are conservative. Therefore, I want the guy who I think can win. I'm leaning toward Romney even though I loathe him.

Romney polls well in battle ground states. Romney is popular in Michigan and New Hampshire which could potentially swing an election.

Let me state that I am perfectly willing to lose an election on principle. I supported Joe Miller and we lost that.  But I don't believe any of our remaining candidates are principled.

266 Does anyone else find it annoying every time Newt should be referencing himself in the first person he replaces "I" with "Callista and I"? It's getting spooky.

267 The fact that he's conjuring up visions of JFK for his new space policy is not encouraging. We'll see what he actually unveils this week, I guess.

Whatever he says, you can bet it will be VISIONARY!!! Just ask him. He'll tell you how visionary it's gonna be.

268

Newt Gingrich accomplished, through his leadership, something no other Republican politician did.  Reagan couldn't do it.  Nixon, with his landslide, couldn't do it.  Eisenhower never did it.  Now, maybe there were some 19th century pols who did, but it was a very different world then, in terms of who and what the parties are/were. 

Gingrich made it possible for the R party to become the majority party in this country.  I'm old enough to remember when that wasn't just unlikely, it seemed impossible.  And yet, here we are again.  Months away from the possibility of controlling both houses of congress, holding the White House, and a majority of state legislatures and governor's mansions. 

Newt made that possible. 

269 257 Don't worry, I'm sure there's no chance that the Democrats will run ads showing Mitt saying $300,000 isn't very much money and then compare that to the average household income in the US and various states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Florida, North Carolina, etc.

I'll bet you ten grand they won't!

270 188 Kevin McCarthy is not John Boehner, in case you hadn't noticed. And he recruited them because they were Tea Party types- that the Tea Party then dragged over the finish-line.

The point is that the GOP Establishment did play a part in the election even if they were not primarily responsible for the outcome.

Even granting that Boehner saw the Tea Parties as a source of political power and that it was his strategy to recruit from them- he's done everything he can to squander that political capital by continuous capitulations that he thinks are oh-so-clever.

In trying to avoid being the conventional leader who punishes and angrily demands members vote his way, Boehner has become a doormat. He is also unwilling to stand-up to McConnell, who keeps making deals behind his back. Boehner is trying too hard to be nice.

271 Do you guys think it's too late to draft Daniels? He is giving the SotU rebuttal. What better time to announce. We have 34 hours to convince him.

272

Guy who got a JD and MBA from Harvard simultaneously

>>That's like winning the gold in both rythmic gymnastics and synchronized diving ... Gold medals ... indicative of some skill, but far short of being a real gold medal gymnast or diver.

>>JDs and MBAs are jokes

Yeah. JDs and MBAs from Harvard are jokes. Even if you honestly believe they are jokes, he's  made hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in the private sector. I would think that is indicative of intellegence, don't you?

Again, I don't like Romney, but come on.

You're joking right?

273 I think what is being lost on a lot of people here is the fact that people think that they can elect Gingrich and that Gingrich will pull Romney into the administration so that they can get their smaller government and fixed economy.  They think they will get the best of both worlds.  The guy they perceive as the charismatic leader who can win and the guy they perceive as the money genius who can fix everything.  Just like you get the impression that Palin and Perry will figure prominently in a Gingrich administration.

While some of you think that gingrich is all ego, he doesn't give that impression.  He gives the impression that he's stepped up because he loves his country and realized that he might be the only leader at this time capable of salvaging what is left.   That explains to most people why he isn't so organized and isn't following the preferred form for a political campaign. 

274 267 Does anyone else find it annoying every time Newt should be referencing himself in the first person he replaces "I" with "Callista and I"?

Yeah, We find that creepy.  Just like We made a mistake when We decided to not release our tax returns. 

275 So when Mitt's taxes say he paid an effective tax rate of under 15%, then what? He's a walking, talking example of an out of touch, wall street executive.

Please explain to me how he's going to sell himself to swing states in the rust belt.

276 I could have possibly beaten Senator McCain in the primary. Then I could have been the candidate who lost to Barack Obama.

277 I endorse every syllable, Ace.  Yes, the electorate's preference for Big Talky Man Gingrich is a symptom of stupidity.  No, getting upset that the electorate is stupid won't change anything.  You run with the voters you have.

278 Yeah ya gotta give those TSA brain surgeons credit ha? Way win friends and influence people in Congress ?

I want Mitt to bargain with Ron to dropout if he picks Rand as his second.

279

Posted by: rockmom at January 23, 2012 10:45 AM (NYnoe)

And those with classic Liberal or Libertarian leanings say that if the Feds can't take away a Right, how can a State... and you are forcing someone to buy a product...

Does not matter what Government does it, in America no Government can take away your Rights... if they can? it aint a Right.  Otherwise? a CITY could pass an anti Speech Law...

Bad and dangerous precedent if you rely on that argument, and it sticks.

280 I don't think Cheap Date Conservatism is any kind of a replacement for real conservatism. Given a choice between a cute quip and a substantive commitment, I'll take the latter all day.

Hogwash.  You can make all kinds of arguments that Gingrich will have trouble in the general based on baggage - and those are valid arguments.

You cannot claim that Gingrich does not offer as much, if not more, substance than Romney.  Romney offers mostly vague platitudes and pretends they are serious proposals and ideas.  His 51 point plan is a fairly tepid plan from the center-right.  It is not transformational and doesn't offer serious reform. 

So, you can throw around such b.s. b/c you don't like Gingrich, which is fine, but that doesn't make it true. 

You are falling for the same trap as the "elite" and the media.  Conservatives are all dumb and full of hate and vote based out of spite and anger and thus we like Gingrich b/c he is angry.  So - you are intelligent and there rest of us are just emotional saps?

Ace, you really have been going downhill during this primary season - reverting to leftist attacks on those you disagree with - questioning their intellect, etc.  

I have never been behind Romney and doubt I ever will be.  I may end up voting for him, but that will be over strong objections and with no enthusiasm whatsoever  I think he will be a disaster for the U.S. and for conservatism in the long run.  I also do not buy his electability whatsoever.  I'm not convinved that Gingrich would do any better in the general, but I think Romney will lose in the general.  He certainly has not demonstrated any real political ability.  He simply has the most money and biggest organization.  If he wins the primary, it will be despite being a lousy politician, not because he did anything right.

281 "Or, he just decided to keep his pants zipped for a few years because he really, really wanted to be President." You know, even if that's all it is, I'd give him credit for this. I'm constantly shocked by how many politicians simply can't make this basic political calculation. Also, I do put some credence in the possibility that he changed after his conversion.

282 Spot-on post, Ace.

I might even venture a TL;DR version: Newt's win in SC was gratifying not because he should be the nominee (I think he'd get creamed) but because now Romney knows he's not anointed -- he can't make it to the general without laying down some hard markers for the base.

I want Obama gone BAD.  I am willing to hold my nose and vote for Romney, but first I need some reassurance that I'm not wasting my time.

BTW most pundits aren't mentioning the concerns about Romney on the Second Amendment, which I think is a significant oversight.  Romney did some small, good things for gun owners in MA, but he was also all about how great it was to ban self-loading rifles.  Conversely, Newt fought for and passed a flat-out repeal of the federal AWB in the House (it failed to clear the Senate).

The next President is going to make SCOTUS appointments that will determine whether or not we get a real, judicially enforceable Second Amendment that means a damn.  Romney is a Massachusetts Rockefeller Republican; they have historically been poisonous on gun rights.  This is a major issue, it mattered in SC, and it will matter in FL and beyond.

So start pandering to me, Mitt.

283 Ace, I have to run to class, but here's the short end of it- Mitt isn't closing the deal. Newt's out there selling his brand, showing some substance (as ugly as it is), and people are buying it. To my way of thinking, Mitt is out trying to do what Obama did in '08- throw no real specifics out there and let people project what they want to see onto his blank canvas. You speak of competence and cool leadership- publicly, I have yet to see it from Romney. I was ready to jump on the Romney bandwagon a week and a half ago, and then Romney did a fine job of undermining his only virtue- his electability- in the debates and his interviews. Even in spite of the bullshit Bain Capital attacks, a measured, articulate defense of his time there was not offered BY HIM, but by others in the center-right blogosphere. That's not going to get it done. You're offering Mitt a way forward here, and that's good. But at the same time, what Mitt has shown us thus far is an inability to handle even friendly interviews (Bret Baier) and no spine to call bullshit himself on bullshit attacks (Bain). People are gravitating towards the perceived strong horse, and that ain't Mitt at the moment. Can he recover? Possibly. Will Newt do something dumb and self-destruct going forward? Probably- it's what he's done through his whole career. But I hear from a lot of folks who say they'd rather take their chances with Newt, knowing full well what a risk it is, than ride what they perceive to be a sinking ship with Mitt. Your mileage may vary.

284 >>>Ace, if private sector experience is now necessary in a GOP candidate, why were you pro Perry? It's not necessary. But it would be nice, yes, if a candidate for the office of Chief Executive actually had SOME executive experience at all, whether in business, or as a governor, or, in Romney's case, both. But I'm sure Newt will excel at something he's never had much skill at, or even attempted. Because we need him to. And our wishes shall make it so.

285

Again, I don't like Romney, but come on.

You're joking right?

Posted by: Ben at January 23, 2012 10:50 AM (wuv1c)

It was more a comment about Harvard (and JDs and MBAs) than about Romney.

286 I don't see how Newt Gingrich is more conservative than Romney in aggregate. I would say they're about even.

On record of accomplishment.  However you feel about the methods in which he achieved them, or about the flaws in the achievements, Newt did get Welfare Reform and he did get a Balanced Budget.  Romney got... MassCare.

Newt also Impeached Clinton (which was no mean feat- even if he was acquitted in the Senate), which was more "red meat," for Conservatives.

It's that kind of thing- the simple acknowledgement through word and action- that he needs Conservatives and desires our votes that makes me lean toward Newt instead of Romney.

If Romney thinks he can get by without my vote (as a Conservative who hates everything the SCOAMT stands for and hates the size and scope of the Federal Government), then I'll gladly lend my vote to someone else.

287 So let's pick the guy who actually SUPPORTED a FEDERAL mandate to buy health insurance!

The difference between Newt and Romney is that the former advocated leftwing positions, the latter enacted them.

That doesn't make Newt a great choice for conservatives, but it does make him better then Romney.

But there is one candidate in the race who was always opposed to Obromneycare, and isn't Ron Paul - Rick Santorum.

Why the heck aren't we supporting him!??!?!?!?!

288 Re: favorability numbers. Right now, people who don't follow politics remember Newt as the guy who got tossed out of the House, and only know Romney as a successful businessman with movie start looks. Both perceptions would be altered in a general campaign, and its hard to predict how the favorability numbers would actually work out. As for business experience--Newt did what a lot of middle-aged professional men do when they're laid off--he worked his Rolodex to build a consultancy. The fact that many of his contacts were in his old industry (government) doesn't change the fact that HE was doing this as a private sector entrepreneur. He also runs ( and makes money) from a think -tank that explores free market health care reform. He has also written a best selling series of historical novels. He and his wife run a small media company. This is private sector experience.

289

That matches the giddy happiness on the left right now.

Posted by: whatever
.........
No shit.  Go over to Daily Kooks.. they are dancing in the streets over there with the prospect of having Newt as the opponent.

All the demoralized OFA brownshirts will renew their pledges to walk the streets and man the phones for Obama.  All of the young people who feel betrayed by Obama and who would have stayed home will be back at the polls voting -not necessarily for him, but against Gingrich.  Blacks will be out in force at the polls as well.  New is a fucking disaster.

290 184 If Romeny can't beat somebody as flawed as Newt, what chance does he have against Obama?

for 5 years, Romney should have been honing his Bain response and his tax record response. He's.... had....five....years...... to.... do.... that. But, during the last 5 debates he totally flubbed the answer, each and every single time.

Posted by: taylork at January 23, 2012 10:31 AM (5wsU9)

And yet, Perry is the dumb-ass because he couldn't get his shit together in less than 3 months in between back surgery and half of his state being literally on fire.

Five fucking years and he's still blubbering away when pressed as bad as Perry's "opps" moment.

291 Does anyone else find it annoying every time Newt should be referencing himself in the first person he replaces "I" with "Callista and I"?

Yeah, We find that creepy.  Just like We made a mistake when We decided to not release our tax returns. 

Posted by: Mitt Romney Just About Every Politician I Can Remember

FIFY

292 <i>Most conservatives suspect he's not with us where it counts, in the gut. He's not with us temperamentally. On some abstract intellectual matters, he's with us; but the people you're with are the people you're with emotionally, not intellectually.</i>

I had originally interpreted him differently... that he was with us deep, deep down, but his education/experience in life indoctrinated/forced him to be a super squish.  In his business and political life, he had been constrained within a certain PC-liberal viewpoint in order to successfully navigate those waters.  He had done it so long, its almost become his default.  Occasionally when he does get riled up though, the inner moron comes out.  E.g.  the way I saw the "corporations are people" thing was not as a some lawyer thing coming out, but that a corporation is just a group of people with common purpose.  Just like unions, sports teams, political interest groups.  So what if its an economic purpose?

293 "I went to Massachusetts to make a difference. I didn't go there to begin a political career running time and time again. I made a difference. I put in place the things I wanted to do. "   Thanks for the healthcare advice and advisors mitt!- barry o

294 But I'm sure Newt will excel at something he's never had much skill at, or even attempted.

Just as I'm sure that Mitt will excel at something he's never had much skill at or even attempted -- beating Democrats on the national stage. 


TIFN!

295 I used to be electable, but then I took an arrow to the articular cartilage of tibiofemoral and patellofemoral components

296

Newt made that possible.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 23, 2012 10:49 AM (TOk1P)

Really? NEWT did that??? REALLY????

That great leader who got kicked out by his own members? That great leader who was sitting on the Couch with Pelosi, as the TEA party started up?

/shakes head in wonder...

297 Mitt likes mandates. He had a chance to veto one and did not. To this day he defends it. A Conservative would have vetoed everything the MA Dems wanted and would have offered a free market alternative. It would have failed and the Dems would have gotten what they wanted. A Conservative would salute this and say "Okay, enjoy the pain." Romney likes RomneyCare. That alone disqualifies him.

298 This is private sector experience. Posted by: Burke
..........
Oh bullshit.  Private sector experience sucking on the teat of big government.  The very people we need to eliminate from this economy.

299 272 Do you guys think it's too late to draft Daniels? He is giving the SotU rebuttal. What better time to announce.

We have 34 hours to convince him.


Most likely. Too bad, because I'd vote for him before I'd vote for any of the four remaining candidates.

300 Mittens gets nothing from me until he unequivocally repudiates his own healthcare system, and promises to repeal Obamneycare in toto.

301 >>> You are falling for the same trap as the "elite" and the media. Conservatives are all dumb and full of hate and vote based out of spite and anger and thus we like Gingrich b/c he is angry. So - you are intelligent and there rest of us are just emotional saps? yes when people get all giddy about Gingrich slapping down a moderator, who was defenseless and couldn't talk back, yes, I take that as a championing of emotional venting at the elites. Guy's unfavorables are at Palin levels. Are we in this to do something, or to feel good? Because, do note: Very often one must be sacrificed in favor or the other. As is usually the case in life. I do not think Gingrich has much of a chance. I think you are gambling with the Republic.

302  keep seeing people say that if Newt is our candidate there's no chance in hell he'll beat Obama, but Romney can.  Can someone please explain that to me?  Seriously.  It seems that most people feel he'll turn away the moderate vote, but why would that be the case?  We all know he's not as conservative as he claims.  Why should moderates and undecided squishes be any more leery of Newt than of Romney?  Is it the character flaws?  I thought it was only far right social cons who cared about character issues, but that didnt' seem to stop them from voting en masse for Gingrinch in SC. 

I genuinely don't get it. 

I mean this sincerely: someone, please enlighten me.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 23, 2012 10:46 AM (4df7R)

I personally think Gingrich probably can win. but it will be a lot closer than it will be with Romney and could cost us some down-ticket races.

Gingrich is a known quantity to most voters, and by a large majority they do not like him.  There is little he can do to change this.  To younger voters who do not know him, he is old and fat and has a plastic wife, and not much else to recommend him as President.  Suburban women who voted for Obama will like Romney but will not like Gingrich. 

One thing Gingrich supportes are not thininkg about AT ALL is Bill Clinton.  The one way to get him off the sidelines and into this campaign in a  huge way is to make Newt Gingrich our candidate.  I see the DNC plastering the airwaves with ads of Clinton saying that Newt had nothing to do with his success in the 1990s.  The media still adore Clinton, and he'll wind up being the de facto Democratic candidate in this race.  I will go so far as to predict we'll see very little of Obama on the campaign trail except in the black urban areas; we'll see Clinton everywhere else.

I also think the race-card-throwing will be far worse with Gingrich than it will with Romney.  Newt has made too many comments already in this campaign that the race-baiters will be all too happy to twist.   Obama above all needs to drive that black turnout to have any shot at winning. 

303 Mitt Romney, is the conservative version of John Kerry. How well did that work for the democrats in '04?

304
The base will have its way. They have in mind that they are smarter than the Establishment and will show them a thing or two.
Posted by: ace




Why, those impudent plebian dogs!

305 I'm not sure why anyone would think that enough voters would be so fed up with TheWon that they'll turn to a Casper Milquetoast who despite his Hahvahd degrees and millions of dollars in consulting earnings can't generate more than a 25% share of interest after running and organizing a campaign for years.

Yeah Newt can be hard to take, what other options do we have?

306 Romney is in some real trouble and it's some combination of this: We don't like the GOP elitists telling us who to vote for. And, this- Well, on the plus side, at least ace didn't call us bigots for supporting Gingrich. ****** Romney has real problems-he isn't in trouble because the South Carolina voters are anti-Mormon or because the Dems crossed over to vote for Newt. Sure the Dems were some of the vote-but they could not have created that much of a differential between Romney's SC results and Newts. Unfortunately- Romney has to address ... RomneyCare. I think he has to own that, he has to say-I see the err in that and I'm the perfect guy to tear ObamaCare down. I know there's some theory out there to never admit you are wrong-but that's for dictator's-isn't it. Romney could take his greatest weakness and turn it into his number 1 asset...perhaps.

307

So let's pick the guy who actually SUPPORTED a FEDERAL mandate to buy health insurance! 

The winning argument is that health insurance is a state issue and should be given to the states to manage as people in the states want.  This cannot be a one-size-fits-all solution.  This is Romney's plan.  If you don't like the mandate in Massachusetts, don't live there. 

Posted by: rockmom at January 23, 2012 10:45 AM (NYnoe)

 

Newt supported a version of a mandate as an alternative to Hillarycare, which would have required businesses to purchase insurance for all employees as opposed to individuals.  Plus, he didn't enact it. Still sucks, but sucks less, which is kind of where I stand on Newt v Mitt. 

Newt 2012- Newt sucks less!

308 "But my own experience in life is that if it feels good -- especially if it fees sooo good -- I should probably be on high alert that my hedonistic side may just start making some bad decisions." As Samuel Johnson said about writing, "Read over your compositions, and wherever you meet with a passage which you think is particularly fine, strike it out."

309 I think Jay Cost has it exactly right. Conservatives look at Gingrich and see a guy standing up for what they believe in as being at least morally and factually defensible. They see Romney and fear that the will be sold out yet again with some sort of lame, squishy, "Well, yes, conservatives are all racist neanderthals, but maybe we could steamroll our way to complete and oppressive socialism a little more slowly?" It's nice to see somebody challenge the axioms that are taken for granted by the folks who are often called "the elite". I never understood why we call them that. They are the guys with access to the most bandwidth, that is all. That said, I am certainly not sure that Gingrich is my guy. Talk about having a lot of baggage! But I *know* that Romney is NOT my guy. I'm not voting for Obama Lite. I see no reason to help the Republican establishment unless they start standing up for the great American dream. I wanted to like Romney, really I did. But would it be that hard to say, "Yeah, that Romneycare thing didn't work out too well, and Obama should have seen that and figured it out." Can't he just say "Yes, I am rich, and what's wrong with that? People in this country used to call it the American Dream, and let me tell you about all the jobs I created and technologies that came to market because of what we did at Bain." Defend capitalism, for Pete's sake!

310 It's a shame that Patches O'Herlihan isn't available to be Mitt's campaign manager. You got to get ANGRYYYYYY YOU GOTTA BE MEAN! - punch to Mitt's crotch - NOW GET OUT THERE. If you can dodge a wrench, you can debate Obama.

311

"I do not think Gingrich has much of a chance. I think you are gambling with the Republic. "

So this is your official endorsement of Romney for President?

312 >>>is Rolodex to build a consultancy. The fact that many of his contacts were in his old industry (government) doesn't change the fact that HE was doing this as a private sector entrepreneur. Let me translate that into English: Like many guys who never worked a day outside of government, when he lost his job, he had no other real skill-set, and so went into the disreputable job of attempting to further government/bureaucratic aims, usually at great cost to the taxpayer, in exchange for money.

313

Back when Perry was still in it, didn't we all discuss who our second choices would be?  I picked Newt.  After Perry dropped out, I didn't really want to commit to Newt.  I didn't want to commit to anyone, really.  And this is where I was until last night.

I might get a lot of crap for this, but after reading Quotes of the Day (for Sunday) at Hot Air, I'm going to choose Newt.  Great quotes there, substantive analysis about Newt vs Mitt that really hits the nail on the head (prolly 'cause nobody at Hot Gas wrote 'em).  All of the quotes passed the smell test, IMO.

Plus I'm willing to trust Perry on this.  It's a struggle, Ace.  Everybody's got to get to their own place with Newt.

314 I do not think Gingrich has much of a chance. I think you are gambling with the Republic. Yep. *shivers* thing is-maybe it's Romney... who is gambling. He thinks he doesn't have to face the issue of RomneyCare.

315

Please, Ace, explain why this group shouldn't have gone to Santorum or Romney if they think family values is issue number one.

Check the exit polling, it did. Family values votes broke for Santorum, not Gingrich (and not Romney either).

Of course, there are not many values voters in the GOP. When we reach the general election phase, however, the moderate religious fundementalists could desert us in droves.

316 All I can think about through this process is back to when McCain spoke at the convention, asking us to believe in him, to FIGHT with him.  And for the first time, I got a little excited about John McCain, thinking he really meant it, that he was going to fight.  And then he didn't, not one little bit.  Even worse, he tied the hands of Palin, who was supposed to be his attack dog.  He wouldn't even let supporters at rallies say "mean" things about Obama.  That worked out so well for us, didn't it?  I look at Romney and I see a gentleman, one who has no clue how to fight effectively and cannot articulate why he's fighting or what he's fighting for.  I look at Newt and I listen to him and I know he'll fight.  I KNOW he will, and that he's able to articulate the fight.  I don't think he'll turn into the gentle statesman unless that's what required.  And while I don't trust any of them, I think Newt would rather be remembered in history as a transformative figure who changed the course of the nation, rather than Mitt who maybe prevented the worst, but didn't really "right" the ship, because he can't.  He doesn't have it in him, not in his guts.  My bottom line is that Mitt has not changed for the better anyone's mind about him in 6 years.  He's polling exactly the same as he did four years ago.  Newt can change minds, at least he has so fa;, why not give him the opportunity to take his message (newly crafted though it may be) to the public and see if the rest of the country can get behind the goal: to fix and save the country.

317
Do you guys think it's too late to draft Daniels? He is giving the SotU rebuttal. What better time to announce.




Romney's politics with a marriage that makes Newt's look convential.

Sure hope not.

318 I like the "cheap date" theory, I think a lot of this is anger at the coronation and at the idea of a timid candidate to go up against Obama. 

I think also though, just like a cheap date, the GOP electorate is going to say "Do I really want to get married to this person?" when Newt becomes the front runner.  I think he'll crash and burn on that question, as fun as the idea may be, but we'll see.

I would have definitely preferred a NotRomney, but I take electability seriously and I like the idea of the GOP running a candidate that actually has a shot at winning.  I legitimately see a Goldwater wipeout with Newt on a variety of levels, from his past, to his temperament, to the fact that he's incredibly unlikable.

Suicide is not a good way to prove a point.

319

" the moderate religious fundementalists "

Don't see how a religious fundamentalist, and I assume anti same sex marriage and pro life are the two main topics you reference, would vote for Obama over either Romney or Gingrich.

320 Newt certainly has personal baggage, but let's not pretend that:

Romenycare isn't baggage,
Mormonism won't be baggage,
A max 15% tax rate,( which is higher than mine and I mak eunder $100k/yr), isn't baggage,
Bain capital isn't baggage,
flip flopping on abortion and gun rights isn't baggage.


And here's the thing about the above baggage. He's known about it and has either doubled down on it's awesomeness, as in romenycare, or totally flubbed the response.

Yet I'm supposed to believe that the guy who can't explain away the core critiques of himself is electable?

321 Mitt likes mandates. He had a chance to veto one and did not. To this day he defends it.

A Conservative would have vetoed everything the MA Dems wanted and would have offered a free market alternative. It would have failed and the Dems would have gotten what they wanted.

A Conservative would salute this and say "Okay, enjoy the pain."

Romney likes RomneyCare. That alone disqualifies him.

Posted by: eman at January 23, 2012 10:55 AM (3VSsp)

He had a veto-proof legislature.  And he had some very large hospitals threatening to close because of the huge costs of caring for people with no insurance.  It's a small state with a huge health care industry.  The Democrats wanted to force employers to pay for everyone's health insurance.  Romney thought that would kill jobs and chase companies away from the state.  So he agreed to an individual mandate. 

322 Everyone repeat after me:

Newt is not the failure.  Newt is the result of the failure.

If the GOP had kept true to what it claimed it stood for, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because Newt and Mitt would be paid commentators somewhere while responsible adults ran for the GOP nomination.

Instead, human nature struck, and folks emulated the Leftist model for political power, and figured the voters would drag left with them.

And it's too late in the cycle to do what should have been done to start with.  So now we're stuck with Mitt, Newt, Mr. Sweater Vest, and a shriveled goblin.

323

297 -

Yes Romeo, he did.  Maybe you're not old enough to remember, but you can look it up in a book. 

Newt drove the conservative cause, for years , when his colleagues in the House were happy to be the minority party.  Newt. Did. That.

But go ahead, get worked up about him sitting on a couch.

324 Here's the thing -what is the primary schedule. Someone here just asked me how do I think Gingrich will do in New York, California, New Jersey and Michigan. We know he won't do to well in Virginia-Gingrich isn't even on the ballot. How about the mountain states? California could have twice the delegates that South Carolina does.

325 308 Newt supported a version of a mandate as an alternative to Hillarycare, which would have required businesses to purchase insurance for all employees as opposed to individuals.  Plus, he didn't enact it. Still sucks, but sucks less, which is kind of where I stand on Newt v Mitt. 

So why did he still support a federal mandate until earlier last year?

326 who is gambling.

He thinks he doesn't have to face the issue of RomneyCare.
Posted by: tasker
..........
Yes.. he's gambling that the Supreme Court will throw out Obamacare, and it's a pretty good bet.  Mitt's argument all along is that states should be free to choose their own destiny- a core belief of conservatism.  What is good for an individual state, is not necessarily good for a country.  A SCOTUS smackdown of Obamacare will prove him right and remove Romneycare as an issue.

327 More than a couple of times I heard and read that the party elite was looking around for a new candidate should there be a brokered convention.  Jeb Bush and Daniels came up in all those discussion both in print and on the air.  I don't want to see another Bush in the presidency and I'm sure I'm not alone.  Jeb might be one hell of a guy but his last name makes me think no. 

Daniels has way less baggage and was prematurely discarded but he did pander to the unions at a time when other republican governors were fighting them.  So that doesn't bode well.

But, hey guys, why have you decided it's a two man race when it's a three man race and, though the win was taken from Santorum by the totally incompetent Iowa GOP, it is, nonetheless a win, the first win.  Santorum was gyped out of the momentum.

328 So, does this mean Ace and DrewM have broken up?

I'm voting R come November....Romney or Gingrich, matters not.

Except Paul....he's just bat shit crazy.

329

rockmom at January 23, 2012 11:03 AM

Substitute Perry for Romney and Texas Dream Act for Romneycare and you have what was the situation with Perry and illegals he couldn't deport in Texas. Romney fans use your analogy to defend Mitt and the mandate. Perry had the same situation in Texas. Romneybots crucified him.

It's a funny double standard.

 

330 GOP Prez Primary Schedule: http://tinyurl.com/4zlupr7

331

yes when people get all giddy about Gingrich slapping down a moderator, who was defenseless and couldn't talk back, yes, I take that as a championing of emotional venting at the elites.

Okay, what?  "Defenseless and couldn't talk back?"  Are you kidding me, ace?  Have we met a debate moderator or panelist yet who hasn't felt totally free to run roughshod over the candidates' answers to make clear that they, the media gatekeepers, are the smart ones? 

332 Let me translate that into English: Like many guys who never worked a day outside of government, when he lost his job, he had no other real skill-set, and so went into the disreputable job of attempting to further government/bureaucratic aims, usually at great cost to the taxpayer, in exchange for money.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 10:59 AM (nj1bB)

It's even worse than that, really.  He has another skill-set.  He is a successful author and historian.  But he was not content with that as a career after he got booted from the House.  He needed to be relevant in Washington, to be able to be seen having dinner at Charlie Palmer Steak, in other words HE WANTED TO REMAIN PART OF THE WASHINGTON ELITE, and plot his comeback. 

And this is the guy we think is going to tear down Washington??

333 He had a veto-proof legislature. And he had some very large hospitals threatening to close because of the huge costs of caring for people with no insurance. It's a small state with a huge health care industry. The Democrats wanted to force employers to pay for everyone's health insurance. Romney thought that would kill jobs and chase companies away from the state. So he agreed to an individual mandate. Posted by: rockmom at January 23, 2012 11:03 AM (NYnoe) Yes, exactly the wrong thing to do. He could have offered a free market alternative, but did not. So, when he faced full strength socialized medicine he managed to produce diluted socialized medicine, subsidized by all of us through the Feds. You see this as a success?

334 There's a more fundamental issue here. Gingrich has signaled how he is going to handle it, and it is the only way that works. He's signaled it with his press release and his "No" debate answer. When he gets called a racist (and the nominee will) that is how he will respond. It's a response that will work and cut the legs out from under their go-to argument. Romney won't. Romney will fold. I think that deep down, on a subconscious level, that is what is fueling this.

335 I'm trying to decide what's more depressing: Stage IIB Hodgkins lymphoma or the prospect of the GOP nominating Newt Gingrich in a frenzy of self-destructive idiocy.

Honestly, Gingrich feels worse. A LOT worse.

336 Sorry, forgot to take off my sock puppet in 337.

337 29 It may be understandable that we're angry, but neither should we be proud of it, nor think that angry thoughts and angry words are smart thoughts and smart words.

Anger is one of the seven deadly sins, unless there's a special Except for Obama clause.<<<Ace

I'll be sure to let Patrick Henry know.

338 More than a couple of times I heard and read that the party elite was looking around for a new candidate should there be a brokered convention.  Jeb Bush and Daniels came up in all those discussion both in print and on the air.  I don't want to see another Bush in the presidency and I'm sure I'm not alone.  Jeb might be one hell of a guy but his last name makes me think no.

It's too soon for Jeb, but enough of a contrast can be drawn between him and the others to make a difference...down the road. He would deliver Florida in the blink of an eye.

339 I'm trying to decide what's more depressing: Stage IIB Hodgkins lymphoma or the prospect of the GOP nominating Newt Gingrich in a frenzy of self-destructive idiocy.

Dude! What the heck?

340 This morning joe scarborough sort of took credit for bringing newt down.  And then he alluded to newt going against him in his election.  I didn't understand what he was saying.  Yeah was drying my hair and rushing around but in the end I heard "so I'm going after newt cause i think he's responsible for me not being reelected".   Where can I find all the information about what went on when Newt was disciplined.  Did the conservatives kill Newt?

341 >> Newt supported a version of a mandate as an alternative to Hillarycare, which would have required businesses to purchase insurance for all employees as opposed to individuals.  Plus, he didn't enact it. Still sucks, but sucks less, which is kind of where I stand on Newt v Mitt.

You realize RomneyCare has the exact same pedigree, right? The MA Dems wanted an employer mandate.

342 California could have twice the delegates that South Carolina does.

And Texas has more than California- and I'm willing to bet (if it's even a contest then) that Newt wins Texas.

343 I expect Romney will launch lots of attacks on Newt -- and they will backfire. I think they will be perceived as attacks on the Champion. And Romney will attack harder and...

I have a lousy record as a prophet, but I think Romney is toast in the South. I don't think he likes conservative, he has not reached out to the base, and the South is the core of the modern Republican party. How has Gingrich (!) taken the demographic, why wasn't it Romney instead? I'd say it was because he didn't want them, his selling point was that he wasn't like that.

344

334 -

Those poor, defenseless debate moderators.  Who will speak up for the television media personalities, who will give voice to their concerns???

I think Ace has just reached that point where he's saying "screw it, I'm ready to get in line."  He did it with McCain in '08, which is commendable, I guess. Party loyalty and all that.

345 I also remember that when Newt pushed through a substantial, and beneficial, change in school lunch laws, the MSM claimed that he was starving kids, and the whole Republican party sat on its hands, and let him twist in the wind, because they wanted to stay on the media's good side. I am not very impressed with the "good conservatives" who got rid of him. I know Tom Coburn was part of that group, but so were Tom Delay and John Boehner.

Posted by: Burke at January 23, 2012 10:32 AM (9N3G1)

i remember similar behavior by the republican party with Bush, The dems intimated all manner of things, baby killer , hitler etc, blood for oil,  They did not defend Bush or their positions, They than lost to Obama's crew.

I had not known of the meme, party of stupid until that time.

346 @288 Why the heck aren't we supporting him!??!?!?!?!


I have no idea

347 But whatever gets votes is what works, and so whoever gets the most votes in the primary has demonstrated that they're the better vote-getter. Of course they'll modify their campaigns after the primary, but that's the way it works.

It's like complaining that they guy who keeps winning battles is a horrible strategist because he's not winning battles using the strategies you think he should be using. Maybe he's actually better at this than you are.

348 Yes, exactly the wrong thing to do. He could have offered a free market alternative, but did not. So, when he faced full strength socialized medicine he managed to produce diluted socialized medicine, subsidized by all of us through the Feds.

You see this as a success?

Posted by: eman at January 23, 2012 11:10 AM (3VSsp)

It's not socialism.  Private insurers are still covering nearly everyone in the state.  It solved the problem that Romney was presented with, namely, hospitals threatening to close because of costs of caring for uninsured people.  They had a huge free rider problem.  What's the free market solution to that, at the state level?  Allow hospitals to turn away people with no insurance?  You want to be the governor pushing that with an 85% Democratic legislature? 

349 You know what the worst thing about the impending Gingrich debacle is going to be?  I can tell you right now.  Mark these words, because as sure as day follows night, if Gingrich gets the nomination and inevitably loses the following will happen:

The same people who are driving us off a cliff by pushing Gingrich right now will scream and bawl for the next four years about how the only reason he really lost is because "The Establishment" sabotaged him, didn't get behind him, and if they had then he totally would have beaten the shit out of Obama but they just wanted to desperately preserve their power and influence and blah blah blah.

You know it's coming.  It's the same thing a bunch of people said, in the face of all reason and logic, after Christine O'Donnell lost in DE: if the GOP establishment and Karl Rove hadn't sabotaged her then she totally would have won in a blue state despite being a loopy flake!  It's going to be that, on a bigger scale.  It will be our own American conservative version of the "Dolchstoss."  And it will be the one thing that makes me want to scream more than anything else.

Because the sorts of people pushing Newt right now, claiming against all rational argumentation and reason that "he can win!" and that "he will motivate people!" and refusing to see that the nation loathes his fucking guts, aren't going to either realize or (more likely) want to admit how wrong they were.  So it's going to be years and years' worth of self-exculpatory excuses. 

350

338 -

And it all comes down to YOUR feelings...

I'm sorry you have cancer, but you are still a simpering fool.

351 Since how much money you have made determines your intelligence, Gates and Buffett should be the most intelligent people in the world? Does their intelligence drop when their wealth decreases? 246 234 you guys know Newt's never been in the business sector his own life, apart from lobbying government arms? Perry didn't have a lot of business experience, either. Seriously, I've never subscribed to the capitalist = conservative line of reasoning. Posted by: Y-not at January 23, 2012 10:43 AM (5H6zj) If this is the logic we use, why exactly aren't we trying to recruit Gates or Buffett.

352 >>>I'll be sure to let Patrick Henry know.

Yeah, and this is the problem right here.  This isn't 1776, dude.  You say you want a revolution, well you know...

353 Woo hoo! It looks like I'm in for the debate on Thursday!

354 This morning joe scarborough sort of took credit for bringing newt down.  And then he alluded to newt going against him in his election.  I didn't understand what he was saying.  Yeah was drying my hair and rushing around but in the end I heard "so I'm going after newt cause i think he's responsible for me not being reelected".   Where can I find all the information about what went on when Newt was disciplined.  Did the conservatives kill Newt?

Posted by: ambrosia at January 23, 2012 11:12 AM (oZfic)

Joe Scarborough was a young Congressman from the Florida Panhandle who backed the group that tried to overthrow Newt as Speaker.  There were conservatives and moderates in that group, but they all thought Gingrich was getting rolled by Clinton and he lacked the discipline to keep the Republicans together in the House.   He was leading for himself and whatever he thouoght aggrandized him.  It cut across ideological lines.

355 you're yelling Jeff.

356 It looks more and more like Newt is a closer and Mitt needs to put that coffee down. The electorate of 2012 is very much like the electorate of 2010. Do you really think they want someone like Mitt?

357 Neidermeyer, see if you can ask about What are our candidates going to do about the DOJ's involvement in Fast and furious

358 >> Allow hospitals to turn away people with no insurance?

They can't do this under federal law. See EMTALA, 1986.

359 The problem isn't that Romney is too easy on Obama.  The problem is that Romney IS Obama, which Dems will be only to happy to point out in the GE.

360 It's not socialism. Private insurers are still covering nearly everyone in the state. It solved the problem that Romney was presented with, namely, hospitals threatening to close because of costs of caring for uninsured people. They had a huge free rider problem. What's the free market solution to that, at the state level? Allow hospitals to turn away people with no insurance? You want to be the governor pushing that with an 85% Democratic legislature? Posted by: rockmom at January 23, 2012 11:15 AM (NYnoe) So, you are cool with ObamaCare?

361

338 -

And it all comes down to YOUR feelings...

I'm sorry you have cancer, but you are still a simpering fool.

You dick.

362 that Newt wins Texas. Possible-but New York, Cali, Michigan-and with Newt not on the ballot in VA... Plus-the schedule no longer is going -state by state..it's Super Tuesdays. March 6th-which includes Va. Michigan and Arizona go off before that. Then April 24th: NY,PA,RI Delaware , Connecticut-I think Romney does well on that date based on NH. I don't think Gingrich has the money in time... Believe me-I want Romney to correct-because even though he can get by that -most likely for the reasons stated-he still needs the enthusiasm of the base and the South during the general... So the worse scenario is-that he wins the primaries without correcting and then loses the general because he keeps looking for excuses as to why the base has a problem instead of him. To quote Buzzion-but not exactly- The proof there is a problem with Romney is that we are willing to consider Gingrich!

363 Intelligence isn't a predictor of how much money you make.  Luck, circumstances, opportunity, your personality all play a part.  Sometimes intelligence can be a big negative cause you can talk yourself out of being a success.

364

Posted by: Jeff B. at January 23, 2012 11:15 AM (23Ios)

You know it, Jeff.  It's the "Lost Cause" all over again.

My personal favorite is the nutbag at HotAir who keeps saying that Mitt Romney's people destroyed Sarah Palin and that is going to keep us from winning this election. 

The stupid is strong with some people.

365 Holy fucking comments Batman!

We need a Savioir!!!!

Perot oh never mind. Paul!!! oh wait he's fucking crazy.


I say fuck it and run that PT Boat right into maelstrom

366 Woo hoo! It looks like I'm in for the debate on Thursday! Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 23, 2012 11:18 AM (piMMO) **** You got a ticket to see the show?

367 Neidermeyer, see if you can ask about What are our candidates going to do about the DOJ's involvement in Fast and furious

They asked those of us who applied to submit a question we would like to ask and, being that it is CNN and co-sponsored by the Hispanic leadership council, I went with something safer. They aren't going to let me ask any questions, but I will be happy to be in the audience.

368 yes when people get all giddy about Gingrich slapping down a moderator, who was defenseless and couldn't talk back, yes, I take that as a championing of emotional venting at the elites.

Guy's unfavorables are at Palin levels.

Are we in this to do something, or to feel good? Because, do note: Very often one must be sacrificed in favor or the other. As is usually the case in life.

I do not think Gingrich has much of a chance. I think you are gambling with the Republic.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 10:56 AM (nj1bB)

I disagree with you that Romney has a chance.  He has proven himself to be a terrible campaigner.  Probably the worst we have seen.  He is not too bright - not knowing Bain and Taxes would be issues.  He can't react well to attacks.  He can't connect with voters.  Nobody knows what he truly believes or stands for. 

This is the guy you think can a) beat Obama and b) govern even 1/2 inch to the right of center?

I would say you are gambling more than I sir.  You imply that those of us who don't like Romney are idiots and can only vote based on emotion.  Your emotional outbursts on your blog show that you are engaging in projection.  Yes, we enjoy seeing Gingrich take the wind out of a liberal moderator's sails.  That doesn't mean that we are only voting based on anger and emotion.

You continue to double down on your leftist streak of attacking everyone who disagrees with you as stupid or emotional or whatever.  It is sad.  It's been going on across many topics and for weeks.  I don't see that it is persuasive to anyone.

Again, there may be arguments against Gingrich's baggage, but to claim he offers no substance is asinine and against all facts.  To claim Romney has more substance again is silly.  Romney is substance-less, which is why he is in the mess he is in.  He is running a moderate focus-grouped campaign to try and win an election in a fairly conservative party. 

Whatever anger you have should be directed at Romney and his idiot advisers who seem to have never engaged in politics before this year based on their actions.   Even if I liked or trusted Romney, I hardly would have any confidence in his ability to defeat Obama based on his primary campaign.  If anything, it leads me to believe he has no chance at winning the general election whatsoever.

Independents are not won over by non-entities with no obvious principals.  I understand the need to court independents, but somehow this need to win independent votes has translated into the idea that our candidate has to be a complete non-entity empty suit that stands for nothing.

Romney could potentially win me over if he did anything to prove he a) has any ability whatsoever to beat Obama and b) makes some solid pledges regarding conservative ideas.  Now is the time for him to take a real stance and put himself out there.

As an aside, I love how the compromise must always against what conservatives want.  When was the last time the moderate wing of the party compromised on anything? 

369 >>>you're yelling Jeff.

Not yelling, really. Just trying to get attention above the din of the comments.  It's a point that's been haunting me for a couple of days now, and I really wanted to get it out, on record, and noticed. 

I can't tell you folks how much all this is messing with my sense of well-being right now.  Psychologically, that is.  I feel like one of those crazy anti-Bush Kos Kidz back in 2004 who couldn't even focus on the day-to-day because of how depressed they were...except in this case I'm depressed at the prospect of my own party committing suicide.  And since I'm becoming increasingly resigned to the fact that it's going to happen, what's really pissing me off now is the prospect that when this all comes to pass, the guilty parties are going to disclaim all responsibility or any self-reflection and simply blame it on "The GOP Establishment" or whatever. 

370 You got a ticket to see the show?

CNN left a message to confirm that I can attend so, it looks like I am in. I'm just waiting on a confirmation email.

371 Regarding Ace's thoughts on Cortez' mindset and determination to fulfill his mission: Burn The Ships by Steven Curtis Chapman. Actually, this would be a rather inspiring song for a political rally. However, it's by a Christian artist, so likely the D.C. handlers would nix it without a listen.

372

rockmom,

I don't live in MA, but I got my first health insurance offer from a MA insurer this last week (from a company I own).  In my state my coverage for my family costs about $1100 a month.  For the same coverage it was $2500 a month and the deductible was three times higher in the MA insurance.......I truly hope that insurance doesn't cost that much over there, but then again when you require people to purchase something by law, the price of that something can only go one way....up!  

They try it with cable and other 'government regulated' sectors.....they have to get permission from a board to raise rates, yet my cable bill goes up 15% every year as if we were living in the Jimmy Carter era.  Same thing with MA government enforced 'private insurance'.

373

It's too late for Romney.   We cut him a lot of slack.

But when he wouldn't explain why making 80% profits while thousands of workers were laid off, why he wouldn't publish his tax returns, why stashing gazillions in the Cayman Islands is a good thing, we figured it out.

We like free markets.  We don't like crony capitalism and a rulebook designed by the wealthy for the wealthy.

And at the same time, Lazarus Gingrich demonstrated that he will fight.  Grant was a drunkard, but he fought.  That's what we want.

We're pissed.  It's over.  Ace is usully way in advance of the trend.  He's wrong on this one.

374 Well If Romney wins this, He will absolutely have to work on that deer in the headlights look whenever anyone (Obama attacks any of His ideas) He fails miserably at self defense and looks Like He is guitly.

375 Romney '12 is one of the worst political operations I've seen. It makes me long for the great vibrancy of Dole '96.  That does not make me feel confident in the claims that Romney is all that intelligent in ways that serve a national political leader.   Right now he looks like another technocrat who flounders whenever outside his limited comfort zone.

The real problem is that from the choices he's made in his own life Romney has shown that like Obama he really doesn't have much time for ordinary Americans.  With the media's help Obama was able to fake it in '08 but people have now seen through the act.  Romney can't fake it.  The more he tries the more obvious it becomes.  That makes me think he will have as much trouble connecting with the less interested voters in the general election as he with primary voters.   I tend to avoid the term independent because I know too many  Republicans who now consider themselves independent because of their disgust with what happened to federal spending from 2000 onward. 

376 It's not socialism. Private insurers are still covering nearly everyone in the state. It solved the problem that Romney was presented with, namely, hospitals threatening to close because of costs of caring for uninsured people. They had a huge free rider problem. What's the free market solution to that, at the state level? Allow hospitals to turn away people with no insurance? You want to be the governor pushing that with an 85% Democratic legislature?

Posted by: rockmom at January 23, 2012 11:15 AM (NYnoe)


So, you are cool with ObamaCare?

Posted by: eman at January 23, 2012 11:20 AM (3VSsp)

Not at all.

But I have a ton of family in Massachusetts, one of whom works for Blue Cross/Blue Shield there.  They're pretty happy with their health care.  My father-in-law has Parkinson's and his PRIVATE Medigap health plan has been fabulous in providing day care, home care, and advanced treatments that aren't available in a lot of states. 

ObamaCare was a solution in search of a problem.  Insurance has been a state matter since the 1930s, and has been managed very well by the states.  If one state thinks its biggest problem is people with no insurance, it should solve that problem the way its people want.  If another state thinks its biggest problem is government subsidies driving up costs, it should be free to solve that problem the way its people want to.  I also believe that a federal mandate is unconstitutional.  It's very clear that it wasn't in Massachusetts. 

Democrats want to eventually nationalize and socialize all health care.  I know as the daughter of a doctor and a nurse that this will mean the end of America as we know it.

But a health plan in one small state with an individual mandate to buy private insurance is not the end of America.

377 Well, I see Don Q. Ace has picked himself another windmill.

Interesting how everyone LOVED Chris Christie for his sass to the teacher's and unions and media. Even though he's a much bigger liberal than Gingrich. Ditto The Donald (although there was more pushback on him cause he's a New Yorker)

Gingrich however gets different treatment.

What makes anyone think ANY of these candidates are more or less conservative or liberal than the other. They're all pros with a past and no way of predicting how they'll really govern. So it's all guesswork. None of what Ace says is untrue but neither is it predictive of the future.

Spin the wheel; takes your chances.

378 Apparently Beck is proving using Newt's own words that he is in favor of romenycare/obamacare on the federal level. 

Romney seems to favor it on a state level.

Now I have to go check how Rick Santorum feels as I'm against romenycare/obamacare, whatever you want to call it as the history books will say that romneycare was the grandfather of obamacare.  Whatever it is, fewer people are covered than ever before and it is destroying one of the best things we had going for us as a country, our health care system. 

Those who think it will go down with the Supremes.  Heard a sobering discussion from a big shot attorney who gave all the facts about the case and the strategy they are using and why it's possible they could lose.  He seemed to think the best bet was repealing it in its entirety and starting from scratch but he felt that might not even be possible.

379 Well If Romney wins this, He will absolutely have to work on that deer in the headlights look whenever anyone (Obama attacks any of His ideas) He fails miserably at self defense and looks Like He is guitly.

The element of surprise that comes from one of your own launching the nucular (hic) attack might have played into it as well. He won't be caught by surprise with Obama.

380 Jeff, I hear ya , but, You also need to keep in mind even though there were indeed loss's and odonnell the people wanted stronger conservatives and won some . at least give credit for those wins while being frustrated and disappointed  at the loss's.


I hope your doing OK , have they spoken of chemo yet as the option? and prayers.

381

351 -

Good point. Hospitals are threatening politicians to force people to buy something against their will, because it's good for the hospitals' bottom line. 

Hospitals love socialized medicine. One reason, it gives them leverage over insurance companies, and will start forcing them to adhere to a single billing schedule, which over time will essentially end private insurance, an industry that has already consolidated dramatically over the last 30 years, because of federal meddling in healthcare payment systems. 

Remember Major Medical?  As your union buddies what it was like paying peanuts into their union's health plan. Those don't exist anymore either. 

382 I can't tell you folks how much all this is messing with my sense of well-being right now. Psychologically, that is. ***** OK that's it. Jeff...that's not good, not good at all. You cannot be exposing yourself to what is essentially an exercise in futility. Why do you want to borrow that kind of stress-at a time like this? The boundary between the physical and the psychological-any good doctor will tell you is a mystery... There is very little you can do to persuade people. Look Ace is the blogger here-and only 1/3 of the commenters-here voted online for Perry. Why are you choosing to bash your head against a wall-at a time when you can least afford borrowed stress?

383 Interesting how everyone LOVED Chris Christie for his sass to the teacher's and unions and media. Even though he's a much bigger liberal than Gingrich. Ditto The Donald (although there was more pushback on him cause he's a New Yorker)

No. Not everyone. I have consistently argued that his temperament is not suited to the presidency although he seems perfect for NJ.

384

>>>We like free markets.  We don't like crony capitalism and a rulebook designed by the wealthy for the wealthy.

1.) Name one thing Mitt Romney has ever done in his entire life that could be characterized as "crony capitalism."  Just one thing.  C'mon, only one thing and I'd be satisfied.  Because I can sure as shit mine Newt Gingrich's record for a crapton of things that scream "crony capitalism" but near as I can tell there isn't a single thing in Romney's background that could be labelled that way.  It's stuff like this -- assertions where it's obvious the writer is just slinging around the current negative buzz-phrase like a curseword without actually thinking it through -- that makes me believe that a significant number of voters have given up reason for anger-fueled emotion.  Because you'd have to forsake logic in order to call Romney a "crony capitalist," ESPECIALLY when you're pushing Newt (an actual crony capitalist!) in his stead.

>>>And at the same time, Lazarus Gingrich demonstrated that he will fight.  Grant was a drunkard, but he fought.  That's what we want.

2.) No.  That's what YOU want.  That's apparently what a lot of the GOP primary electorate wants.  But that's not what the people who will actually vote in the general election for President want.  Tell me: do you care?  Or do you think this is just a myth, that an angry Newt will actually bring all those people on board, and we'll all just look like fools for thinking otherwise? 

385 The element of surprise that comes from one of your own launching the nucular (hic) attack might have played into it as well. He won't be caught by surprise with Obama.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 23, 2012 11:28 AM (piMMO

Yes, I think most of the hopefuls were caught off guard at the attacks, Perry was initially flustered by ti. Yes I think He will have an expectation now ..

386 Well If Romney wins this, He will absolutely have to work on that deer in the headlights look whenever anyone **** The constipated, I'm trying to hold back a crap look isn't working for Romney either.

387 You know, I must have something wrong with me. I'm a married woman, and I'm nearly 64. I like Newt. I think he's more conservative than Romney by quite a stretch, although he's no Ronald Reagan. I've liked him since I became aware of him sometime in my 40s. The three marriages don't bother me in the least and never have. I sort of regard that as his personal business. Even Clinton's serial adulteries weren't of much concern to me. It was his and Hillary's business, and if she was stupid enough to let him tomcat around like that, it was her problem, although I'd never put up with it from my own husband (nor, to his credit, have I ever had to worry.)

It is my personal opinion that Gingrich would be a good President -- probably better than Romney. As he has pointed out, as Speaker, he balanced the budget for the first time in 40 years, over the howls and gnashing of teeth of Liberals and the resistance of Bill Clinton. Romney, on the other hand, is a Massachusetts moderate, and a one-termer at that. And his term wasn't all that outstanding. He brags about his business experience, but as governor, he didn't do much for the economy of his state and its jobs. Just sayin'.

I think both Gingrich and Romney are electable, because, as Rush pointed out, this election will be about Obama, not the Republican candidate, but personally I'd rather have a fire-breather like Gingrich, who will try to turn the mess we're in around rather than try to "manage" it. With Romney, we're still likely to go over the cliff -- just a little more "moderately" than with Obama. Gingrich just might be able to turn us around. I don't know that, but that's my general sense of the whole thing.

On the whole, I prefer Gingrich, serial marriages and all. I don't want to marry him, after all. I just want him to fix the country -- a tall order to be sure, but he just might be able to do it. With Romney, I'm less hopeful.

All this is just my opinion, of course, but I don't understand the viciousness of the dislike for Gingrich. Even my dislike of Romney isn't that intense. I don't know either of them, except for their reputations but I just don't have that much faith in moderates. I guess you can just color me cynical.

Oh yes, and Obama is a SCOAMF.

388 Jeff B., please have a cup of Sleepytime tea with honey.

You cannot change this and you cannot afford the wasted energy.

Hey! How 'bout those Giants?!

389 Coulter's always been shrill.

It's only lately that she's been outside the tent shrilling in instead of inside the tent shrilling out.

390 Well, if we are criticizing romeny.  The "I'm the smartest one in the room and you, you are merely a minion challenging me" laugh has got to go.

391

364 -

I can be, when I have to be.  Such as when emotional fools use their personal tragedies to try to gain "moral authority" or some other form of sympathy.  I didn't like it any more when Cindy Sheehan did it either. 

Cancer has effected many of us, but not all of us use it for emotional leverage.   

392 I can't tell you folks how much all this is messing with my sense of well-being right now.  Psychologically, that is.  I feel like one of those crazy anti-Bush Kos Kidz back in 2004 who couldn't even focus on the day-to-day because of how depressed they were...except in this case I'm depressed at the prospect of my own party committing suicide.  And since I'm becoming increasingly resigned to the fact that it's going to happen, what's really pissing me off now is the prospect that when this all comes to pass, the guilty parties are going to disclaim all responsibility or any self-reflection and simply blame it on "The GOP Establishment" or whatever. 

Posted by: Jeff B. at January 23, 2012 11:23 AM (23Ios)

I'm not sure what this means.  If we don't do exactly what you think is right it is suicide?

the problem, as it has been all along, is Romney.  The dislike and dissatisfaction with Romney being the GOP candidate among a majority of the GOP's voters has been known for over a year.  Romney and his campaign could have worked to bridge this gulf by positioning himself as more conservative, making conservative pledges, having a more conservative platform, admitting Romneycare was a mistake. 

Instead, the Romney campaign bet on being able to win with 25-30% of the GOP primary vote and chose not to chase conservative votes b/c doing so would, in their estimation, hurt Romney in the general election.  They made a major strategic error. 

On the flip side, the "establishment" such as it is, could have gotten some better candidate to run that would have been acceptable to conservatives and moderates alike.  In the "establishment's" defense, they did try to get Christie or Daniels to run.  But they didn't get anyone who could get real traction in the ring. 

So now, we are where we are.  Romney put himself in this position and it seems to me that it is not the party's fault, or people who don't back Romney's fault.  If you want to blame someone, blame Romney.  He had 5 years to figure out how to win this primary and position himself and failed to do so. 

393 The constipated, I'm trying to hold back a crap look isn't working for Romney either.

I laughed, because I know exactly the look. It's the look that says I'm holding back a stream of expletives as long as a flight deck and it's about to choke me look.

394 So the consensus is that most Ace commenters think Ace is a fucking idiot here?

395 >>>Why are you choosing to bash your head against a wall-at a time when you can least afford borrowed stress?

Because I can't avoid it.  You don't think I've wanted to turn off the news recently?  Avoid the blogs?  But then wtf else is there to do on the internet?  I don't 'do' silly entertainment shit...I've been a political blogging guy since I was in college.  I don't know what else to do, and yet the news is so dire right now that it makes me want to fucking scream.

Ironically enough, I'm probably going to be less excitable in the comments these days than ever before...because I'm quickly hitting that "we're all doomed and the country is fucked forever" state of mind, given the likelihood of nominating Newt.  At this point, the only thing left to fight for is going to be making sure that the people who pushed him on us are made to accept responsibility for the choice once it blows up.  Nobody could really claim to 'own' the McCain nomination in 2008, at least if you were there paying attention to how it came about.  But it's going to be very, very clear how Gingrich won against the only guy in the field who could actually beat Obama.  It's going to be very clear who made this call.  And my only hope is that they actually learn a lesson from it, instead of spouting "GOP insider Bush/Rove/Krauthammer/Establishment types sabotaged the nation because losing to Obama was better for them!" bullshit. 

396 I know exactly the look. It's the look that says I'm holding back a stream of expletives as long as a flight deck and it's about to choke me look. ******* Ha! That or the look toddler's get about two minutes before you know you're gonna have to change their diaper. gawd.

397 Jeff B.  Why don't you write a post about your feelings and send it to Ace.  Maybe he will post it as a "temporary co blogger opinion position".   this way you don't have to jeopardize your health over this which is not more important than your health.  I'm sure you ignored me the first time I said it but, please please please increase your water by at least two fold.  There is some evidence, albeit small, that this helps with blood borne illnesses.  Plus you've been included in my rosary list and with my prayer group which isn't only Catholics but ecumenical.  So you're covered on all fronts with them.  It was so much easier to ask them to pray for my friend "Jeff B" and not have to explain the way I did with CAC.

398 So people here are flipping out (and not in the totally sweet, ninja sense), but isn't it pretty simple?

If Newt's win slaps some sense into Romney and makes him start actually dealing with the base -- "oh sh*t I need these people to win!" -- then it is a Good Thing.  We need something like this. 

If Newt's win means that Newt becomes the nominee, then it is a Bad Thing because he will lose badly.

Newt as our guy the general is Bad, but (and this is the point several people are making in the comments here) a non-chastened Romney as our guy in the general, a Romney who has not had that come-to-Jesus moment (metaphorically speaking) with the right, is just as Bad.  In part because he's going to lose too.

The one relatively good outcome from the primary cannot occur unless Romney gets the crap scared out of him.  Which is what is happening.

So there is a perfectly sensible, non-emotionalized case for cheering Newt's beatdown of Romney in SC.  As I do.

399 JeffB , hard to find Perot voters that take any responsibility either.

400

Cancer has effected many of us, but not all of us use it for emotional leverage.   

Posted by: BurtTC at January 23, 2012 11:35 AM (TOk1P)

Exactly.  Using personal medical situation to bolster your unrelated argument?  Do they teach that in debating classes?

401 Yay! I am now ranked #14 in my league of 1670 players in the Playoff Challenge and #5282 out of a half million players in the overall challenge.

When are we going to get the Fantasy Congress league up and running again? I'm about to go through serious fantasy league withdrawal.

402 Jeff B. Go look at the primary schedule... It's too hard for Gingrich. He's going to have to fight in multiple states on the same dates -that aren't in the South or right next door to Georgia. Trust me I no what it's like to be addicted to politics-i'm the last person to figure out how you get over that.... But it seems to me like you are going to have to do that. You know-you could be doing this to avoid certain other things...

403 JeffB , hard to find Perot voters that take any responsibility either.



_ahem

404

401 -

Bingo.

405 Join the Santorum Side! We have cookies! And, you know, a candidate who actually stands a chance of making a decent president. :-D

406 331 So, does this mean Ace and DrewM have broken up?

I'm voting R come November....Romney or Gingrich, matters not.

Except Paul....he's just bat shit crazy.

Posted by: Tami

 

Thank you Tami.

That's it in a single sentance.

ANYONE BUT OBAMA

407 How many would enjoy hearing Romney belt out one good long "Fuuuuuck!"?

408 The red meat that Newt can dish out and that Ann Coulter -- and now our beloved Ace -- think is a cheap dish destined for failure, is in fact what this election is all about. Years of pent-up anger at having the self-designed elites mock everything we believe -- and I mean everything -- in their self-destructive, yet somehow self-serving, world, have reached the popping point. And I mean popping as in the biggest bubble of all, the quasi-Marxist, self-loving/loathing socio-political balloon that has had a glorious run for about 50 years. It's going to burst just like all those bubbles before did in the first eleven years of this century. One by one, pop, pop, pop, and now the Liberal-quasi-Marxist-self loving/loathing socio-politico bubble has reached critical mass. Newt alone seems to understand this. Unless Romney gets the message, he's toast. The elite cannot save him. Karl Rove cannot save him. The just-entering-the-important-Washington-circles Fox folk can't save him. Brit Hume can't save him. The only thing that can save Romney is if he sees this huge, inflated, socio-politico balloon that as swallowed up all the space in the room and then he reaches under the cushion and finds a pin and pops the damn thing. That's the card Newt holds in his hand -- a frickin' prickin' pin. He pricked Juan Williams, he pricked John King, he will prick again. It's time to be a prick, Willard. Pop the balloon.

409 Join the Santorum Side! We have cookies! And, you know, a candidate who actually stands a chance of making a decent president. :-D

Don't laugh. Liz Cheney thinks he's the one to watch out for. She said yesterday that while Newt and Mitt are slugging it out in Florida, Santorum is going to be courting the next series of states and saving his energy and money in a winner-takes-all state where he stands no chance.

410 How many would enjoy hearing Romney belt out one good long "Fuuuuuck!"? Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 23, 2012 11:43 AM (piMMO) **** LOL! Romney to Niedermeyer You're off my ad team!

411
Romney = weak horse

Newt = strong horse

No need to get too deep about it.

412 JeffB , hard to find Perot voters that take any responsibility either. **** *oops!*

413 So, does this mean Ace and DrewM have broken up? HA! Naaa, I think Drew M. is proposing an "open" relationship, ace might be playing hard to get....

414 Every day I think about the race, I just laugh to myself: How did it get this way?

415 Personally...i'm just hoping to see Newt implode in a grandiose manner...just to see Freepers eat crow

416 Romney = weak horse

Newt = strong horse

No need to get too deep about it.

Strong horse? He's the horse that will use all his energy in the stall, kicking the shit out of the gate, and then wear out half way around the track.

And weak knees. Very weak knees.

We clearly have very different definitions as to what constitutes strength in a man.

417 Opinions.

That's what makes a horse race.

418 Naaa, I think Drew M. is proposing an "open" relationship, ace might be playing hard to get....

Well, Malor doesn't mind sharing him.

419 Okay. I am going to wear out my fingers clicking back and forth between here and my email, looking for my confirmation.

420 Well Newt may have resigned in disgrace but ROMNEY was elected Governor in freakin' Ted Kennedy's Massachusetts!!!!1111!!!

'Nuff said.

421 >>>Cancer has effected many of us, but not all of us use it for emotional leverage.

Dude, what are you even talking about?  Emotional leverage?  What am I trying to convince people about?  To suddenly support Romney out of sympathy to me?  Um, that's not how it works.  I was actually just trying to employ some black humor (humor which pretty nearly approaches the truth for me).  I don't even understand the weird butthurt you have about this.

422 Ace, if Romney actually took all that advice, I might even consider taking the time to go vote for him on March 6 here in Virginia in our non-primary primary. But, he won't take your advice. He doesn't have it in him. It's why he's still polling 25-30% after running for president for 6 damn years. I'm still open to supporting Romney in the primaries if he were to do something along the lines of what you suggest, but it would take a massive change in focus and attitude on his part, and I don't think we're going to see it. I honestly don't think he has it in him to do, even if he decided he needed to do it. And I see no signs that he or his advisors have the faintest hint of a clue that something like this is needed which makes having it happen even less likely.

423 Count on Ace to be resolutely, staunchly, against conservatives!

424 423 Okay. I am going to wear out my fingers clicking back and forth between here and my email, looking for my confirmation.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 23, 2012 11:57 AM (piMMO)

You don't have something on your email that pings and puts a message up that you have an email and who it's from?

425

Ace points out Newt's weaknesses in drive and discipline. Fair points. I think Newt is aware of these things about himself. That's why he talks up all the things he's going to do on Day One. And it may be part of why the Contract With America focused on the first 100 days of that session.

I'd love to see the news the day after a marathon executive order signing/rescinding session. Followed by long sessions to coordinate with congressional reps to put a long term action plan in place for THEM to drive.

As for personal baggage, I'm not worried that Newt would leave being the POTUS for a younger, blonde country.

I was on the fence until SC and I saw the poll results with women, married women and independents. He should have lost HUGE with them, if the conventional wisdom was true about his baggage. He didn't. Ace is right that SC is very conservative,so We'll see if that trend continues in FL. If it does, I know where my TX vote will go - assuming there's still a race by the time TX has our primary.
 

426 Oh bullshit. Private sector experience sucking on the teat of big government. The very people we need to eliminate from this economy. Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at J Read my post again. He did a lot of private sector things, and he was on the board of private sector companies. He didn't use his connections to get him a cushy post with the National Endowment for the Humanities, or retreat to academia. He set himself up as a consultant, which meant he had to sell himself, deal with the costs of his business, and work with an unsteady income. He did exactly what my private-sector spouse did when he was laid off at age 55--use the connections he had to build a new business, which isn't easy. The fact that one of his clients was a government agency doesn't change that. (Said spouse, who is not necessarily sold on Newt, gets furious when people claim that Newt has no private sector experience).

427 This election is, and has always been, between the press and the Republican nominee.  Obama is, as always when it comes to important events in his life, just a bystander.  Not an innocent one by any means but still he is just along for the ride.  He is like the rock star who dives into the crowd and is passed around on everyone's shoulders.  Whatever his faults, Newt understands the dynamic that is at work here. 

Romney will not disavow even something as odious and obviously wrongheaded as Romneycare.  Millions of people did not turn out in the streets and form and entire political movement just to elect the man responsible for the progenitor of what they were protesting against.  Obama will have another term before that happens.  Even were Romney elected we would spend his entire presidency fighting against him.  We would only spend about half of Newt's presidency fighting against him.

Let's face it, we are completely boned as a country.  The game has been over for quite a while now when it comes to our finances and the rule of law as set forth in our Constitution.  The previous generations raped us and left us in the gutter.  Now everyone is just fighting over who gets to rifle through the pockets. 

All that is left is bread and circuses so what I want for my bread and circus is to see Gingrich get in the arena and eviscerate Obama during the debates.  I don't want to see a single moment of PC bullshit.  I want the truth for once and I want it boldly and forcefully stated.  I want the press to be aghast and I want Obama publicly humiliated in the same in manner he has humiliated the country.  I want this not because I am angry (I am well past that at this stage) but because we owe it to the people who risked everything to found this country. 

Is that really too much to ask given what has been taken from us?

428 I re read the entire post cause I didn't take away that Ace was supporting romney.  I took away that Ace is just as confused as the rest of us.  I took away that he's trying to get an idea of what both the romney supporters and the gingrich supporters are thinking and whether he agrees with both or neither.  Am I reading my own thoughts in this or is Ace leaning towards endorsing romney?

429 The Gingrich failure?

He successfully ran for re-election and resigned from his House seat shortly thereafter. Newt abandons his constituents as quickly as his wives. Loser all around.

Yeah, Let's all rally around that idiot.

430 In listening to Beck today I hear the same kind of desperate guy that I hear when I listen to Savage.  At least Savage is still on in NY, beck isn't.

431

425 -

I hope your cancer treatment goes well. 

432

Draft the Fred.

He's younger than Ron Paul.

He's got a "trophy wife" (Fred's words).

His trophy wife can rip your head off and shove it up your dark place. Just ask Allan Colmes.

433 Draft the Fred.

HA! I said that a few days ago and I meant it!

434 Newt alone seems to understand this. Unless Romney gets the message, he's toast. The elite cannot save him. Karl Rove cannot save him. The just-entering-the-important-Washington-circles Fox folk can't save him. Brit Hume can't save him.

The only thing that can save Romney is if he sees this huge, inflated, socio-politico balloon that as swallowed up all the space in the room and then he reaches under the cushion and finds a pin and pops the damn thing.

That's the card Newt holds in his hand -- a frickin' prickin' pin. He pricked Juan Williams, he pricked John King, he will prick again.

It's time to be a prick, Willard. Pop the balloon.

Posted by: MaxMBJ at January 23, 2012 11:45 AM (deaac)

You're kidding yourself.  Seriously.  Newt understands whatever the zeitgeist is and tries to ride it back to power.  When he thought the zeitgeist had turned Left, he cozied up to Nancy Pelosi and started bloviating about mandates for health care and backed Dede Scozzafava.  Before Reagan was elected, he was actually a Rockefeller supporter.  Reagan made conservatism cool, so Newt was down with that.  For a while.  The Bush made it Not Cool, and Newt turned into a liberal.  Now he sees the tea party and the zeitgeist turning against Obama and he is trying to fool us again into believeing he is a conservative.

And goddammit, he isn't running against Juan Williams or John King in November.  He is running against Barack Obama, and he has neither the temperament nor the discipline Obama has.  He gets into a debate against Obama and tries this bullshit of attacking the questions instead of answering them, he is toast.  You may be sitting at home cheering him for sticking it to The Man, but most of America will be watching and saying, WTF? Just answer the damn question and stop lecturing Jim Lehrer.  He is going to remind everyone of their snotty college professor that they hated. 

435 Not so much anger as passion, is what I want to see in a candidate.

Former Perry supporter (former former Fred head)- still undecided, and I never thought I'd see myself considering Newt seriously (I worry he's too glib and distractable also) but-

this country is not just a business, our way of life is at stake, and we are on the brink of no return on many fronts, foreign and domestic. Public policy cannot get more personal than the issue of health care. I need to believe that my candidate has a sense of urgency for saving this country as I've known it; that there is passion behind his beliefs and not expediency.

436

433 -

Once upon a time, it used to be considered honorable for a politician to resign a leadership position after letting down his troops, whether it was his fault or not. 

It could be argued that Gingrich was willing to take the fall for his party, and gave them a fighting chance to keep the momentum going.  And then eventually Denny Hastert got the Speaker's job, everything came to a screeching halt at that point, and Hastert was one of those extolling the failures of Newt as loud as anyone.

Newt has been a lot more loyal to the party than the party has been to him. 

437
  Call me when it's all sorted out, and I'll vote for (?)

438 I think Mitt and Gingrich would probably be about the same as POTUS: neither very good nor very bad, so in that respect, we've already lost as far as I'm concerned. My issue is electability, and I just don't think Romney is electable at all, whereas I think Newt might be.

Romney comes off as a sleazier, less compelling John McCain to me, always willing to attack conservatives while holding his fire with liberals so that he will be seen as "pragmatic" and "centrist" to the media. He's a fool on this respect, because the moment he wins the nomination is the moment that the Paul Krugmans and Maureen Dowds of the world pen columns about how Romney is the most evil Republican ever and damn we miss the pragmatism of George W. Bush.

John McCain was a fucking WAR HERO, and that weak "centrist" bullshit couldn't beat the most socialist Presidential candidate ever to win the Dem nomination, so what makes people think that Romney is so fucking electable?

Whatever, I want a fucking brokered convention.

439 Rockefeller supporter? The other day, either NRO or LI posted a picture of Newt and Barry Goldwater together at a campaign stop (not that Newt was very important then, but he was working on Goldwater's campaign). It was attached to an article from the early 90's talking about how Newt had been one of the people most instrumental in building the GOP in Georgia.

440 440

You missed my point completely, somewhat, maybe?

He resigned his House seat not just his position as Speaker. I think there is a big difference which points to a real defect in Newt's character.

441
This should have been written 5 or 6 months ago. Too late for Mittens. But it may serve some other candidate down the line.

But, you don't go into the primaries with the candidates you wish for, but the candidates you have. And you have to somehow make that work.

442 " Romney: Gingrich is a "Failed Leader" Who "Resigned In Disgrace"" Gingrich: Romney is a failed leader who chose not to run again in Massachesetts when he realized that he probably couldn't win, ending a streak of 4 republican governors, and signing onto a state health program that became the model for Obamacare and has since refused to condemn it despite its costs quickly running out of control. He never made it into the Senate despite trying, and his record at the state level in a liberal blue state is questionable at best.

443 I was just over at IOTW where a coblogger and the commenters are complaining about Boehner and how we need to get rid of the establishment guy, moderate caver and get a real conservative in there.  I come over her and read we need to vote for Romney, a moderate, because Newt, who is more conservative than him, can't win. Politics is JUST so riDICulous!

444 If Romney wants my vote he has to show some real fire.  So far I haven't seen it yet.  Mitt you're gonna have to work for it, not have it hand to you on a silver platter.

Show me you've got balls and won't back down.  Then you will get my vote.  Until then....no.

445 You're kidding yourself.  Seriously.  Newt understands whatever the zeitgeist is and tries to ride it back to power.  When he thought the zeitgeist had turned Left, he cozied up to Nancy Pelosi and started bloviating about mandates for health care and backed Dede Scozzafava.  Before Reagan was elected, he was actually a Rockefeller supporter.  Reagan made conservatism cool, so Newt was down with that.  For a while.  The Bush made it Not Cool, and Newt turned into a liberal.  Now he sees the tea party and the zeitgeist turning against Obama and he is trying to fool us again into believeing he is a conservative.

This is an argument from a Mitt supporter?  That Newt's conservative bona fides aren't good enough?  they are 100X better than Mitt's.  Newt has strayed off the reservation from time to time, but done very important things for conservatism.  Mitt only claims to be on the reservation, and has only done so during his time running for President.

I would say that Newt win's the race for who has a more conservative history by at least 1 lap, if not several.  Mitt disowned Reagan and ran as a liberal republican in MA both for Senate and Governor.  He has never been seen in any conservative fight anywhere, ever. 

Again, there are plenty of reasonable arguments to make against Newt as nominee, but claiming that somehow he is less conservative than Mitt is not credible.  If you want to argue that neither is a real conservative and therefore we ought to back Mitt as the allegedly more electable, I'd disagree with your assessment both as to Mitt's electability and as to Gingrich's history within conservatism, but I would respect the argument.

446

I stopped reading at this sentence:

"If someone, for example, has a fair number of good liberal friends (as I do), "

Ace, you do not have any liberal friends.  I'm not sure what you meant by inserting the word "good" in there.  There is no such thing as a "good" liberal.  And there is no way anyone you consider a "good" friend who is liberal also considers you a good friend.  Not if they know you are a conservative, and not unless you agree with everything they say. 

All liberals hate conservatives with the passion of a thousand suns.  They hate you.  Yes, they do.  No matter how much you like them, they hate you.  They want you to die a slow, painful death because you are Evil. 

Until conservatives understand that basic fact, there is no hope for this country.  You cannot have liberal friends and still be a conservative.  It's not possible.

447 We're not at all prepared for this Georgia hayseed. We were hoping to use Teddy's old opposition research, dammit. Now, I've got to reboot the Chicago Machine and start all over again

448 disappointed perry guy here...been mostly a lurker for 3-4 years...I'm with Chi Town Jerry...If Newt wins the primary I will hold my nose and vote for Newt as a last resort, but Pelosi WILL break the law and release the ethics report prior to the election....ninja please, Clinton/Gingrich NEVER "balanced" the budget...

449 What the punditry is missing is that for all of Newt's flaws, he's got much more raw political talent than Romney ever will. There's a reason Romney can't get above a certain ceiling in votes. Politics is about people and if Romney can't read the majority of people--well--he won't be the nominee. Also, I doubt his ability to take a political punch. Even though he's now releasing his tax returns, he stammers and gets brittle when challenged by anyone--Perry, Brett Bair, Laura Ingraham. At least Newt doesn't get flustered. Good grief--how is he going to handle himself when attacked by the MFM and Obama machine?

450 Cheap date conservatism is a telling phrase. We often castigate liberals for taking positions that make them feel good about themselves but have negative real-world consequences. This is like that.

451
431

That pretty well sums up my feelings, too. Neither of these guys will be a great President, although either would be light years better than the SCOAMF. Either of them might lose the general but of the two, Gingrich is the one who will give no quarter to the Obama campaign or the media, and yes, that is worth something.

I hear a lot of the people saying that Newt is just fighting for Newt, and I can't completely disagree with that, but does Mitt really convince you that he's fighting for something other than Mitt? Because he hasn't convinced me of that. In fact, I see Mitt as being more the running-for-power-and-legacy candidate than even Newt.

452 I have acquaintances that are liberal, not friends.

I know who they are and they know me and where I stand but we don't hang out. After hearing them rant about what disgusting retards conservatives were I simply told them they were clueless and left it at that.

453

"Be angry but do not sin" Ephesians 4 or Psalms 4 - take your pick. God gets angry - it isn't a sin. (I suspect He's a little pist off right now actually)

Good thing we were saved from that womanizing Cain. Oh wait...

Nothing has changed since the beginning. The numbers for Romney are constant - around 30% - which represents the moderates in the GOP. The votes have been condensing around the remaining conservatives (as flavors of the week get eliminated).

Newt struck the mother lode when the press attacked him via a 20 yr old divorce. Bachman's (gardasil) mouth overloaded her hummingbird butt - quel surprise. Perry thought we didn't have a heart - "oops" - quel surprise. Cain had affairs - quel surprise. Newt had a bad divorce (s), really, as if nobody knew that. It was the Rubicon and SC conservatives gave a big FU to the media. No more Palinization.

Knee jerk? Likely. And likely to last, because when the voters' foot came down, it landed squarely on the neck of the moderate wing of the party. Being angry and not sinning in this case means no longer sitting back and kowtowing to the bed-wetters in our party.

Dole=Ford=McCain=Romney (Moderates LOSE) Independents do not vote on ideology. Running to the center gains NOTHING.

454 Ace, you sound like you're trying to talk yourself out of talking yourself into liking Mitt.

455 You know the political universe is upended when Ann Coulter calls John King of CNN completely "fair" and "honorable" and insults SC voters. She all but pretty much called them stupid. I think her and Ace's analysis is a bit shallow--thinking the voters in SC only want a good zinger in a debate. Polls show that those who considered electability went for Newt over Romney. They understand this election is going to be filthy and Gingrich can take a punch, reinvent himself, and deliver even a bigger hit back. Romney will just end up stammering.

456 Again, there are plenty of reasonable arguments to make against Newt as nominee, but claiming that somehow he is less conservative than Mitt is not credible.  If you want to argue that neither is a real conservative and therefore we ought to back Mitt as the allegedly more electable, I'd disagree with your assessment both as to Mitt's electability and as to Gingrich's history within conservatism, but I would respect the argument.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at January 23, 2012 12:43 PM (sOx93)

I was not a Mitt supporter going into this race.  But I would 1000 times rather have him as the GOP nominee than Newt Gingrich.  Because I actually think he has the tools to be a good President.  We've tried a series of professional politicians as President and I would like to see what a real successful businessman can do.  America is a failing enterprise right now and Romney has a pretty fine record of turning around failing enterprises.  He understands how jobs actually get created.  I don't give much of a crap about how "liberal" he was as Governor of the most liberal state in America.

Gingrich has not given me one reason to support him as the next President.  I really don't give a shit what he did 15 years ago.  I think his whole campaign has been one giant ego trip.  It galls me that otherwise smart people cannot see through him, and that most people are just excited that he threw a stink bomb at Juan Williams. 

None of this really has much to do with who is or is not a conservative, as far as my support.  I am just trying to take the fig leaf off Gingrich for some people who seem deluded that he is a "movement" conservative with any bedrock allegiance to conservatism.  He isn't.

457 I'd respect Romney a lot more if he'd direct that kind of animosity and passion toward President Obama instead of a fellow Republican.

458

Also, I doubt his ability to take a political punch. Even though he's now releasing his tax returns, he stammers and gets brittle when challenged by anyone--Perry, Brett Bair, Laura Ingraham. At least Newt doesn't get flustered. Good grief--how is he going to handle himself when attacked by the MFM and Obama machine?

Posted by: msmulan at January 23, 2012 12:53 PM (Vq4oV)

When Newt was surprised with a question about his work for Freddie Mac, he responded smoothly but with a bald-faced lie.  Why does he get away with this?

459 I'd respect Romney a lot more if he'd direct that kind of animosity and passion toward President Obama instead of a fellow Republican.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at January 23, 2012 01:18 PM (r4wIV)

Christ, he's been attacking Obama on the stump for months!  What more do you want?  He's just supposed to say nothing about Newt Gingrich's 3000 skeletons?

460 462-rockmom; good politicians lie all the time or at least are disingenuous--see Obama, Biden, and Clinton. Newt speaks with confidence so I'm guessing voters are more likely to believe him. I'm not saying it's a good thing, it's just that Romney isn't as a good a politician.

461 Romney reminds me of McVain. He will fight hard as nails against a Republican. Dems, not so much. WTF with Coulter these days. She was on Mike Gallagher show having a hissy fit that Gingrich won. First Christie, then Romney. She's gone insane.

462 One of Ace's best. Perfectly summarizes so much of what I think of Romney who increasingly resembles the second coming of Dukakis.

463 Yeah Newt sure sounds like a fighter! Give me a break, have people forgotten the Newt that was supposed to beat up on Clinton in a debate and instead gave him the sloppiest rim job in history? Or his kissing up to Pelosi? How about his famous comments on the Ryan plan? Folks, if you think Newt is gonna be a fighter in the general when all his advisers tell him he has a likability problem you are deluding yourselves.

464 A pleasure to read, with a dozen or so wonderful insights.

465 I would support any one of Romney, Gingrich, or Santorum enthusiastically against Obama in the fall.  But I went out in bad weather to pull the lever for McCain in November 2008 as well. 

The Anybody But Obama crowd won't get it done.  We're passionate, and that's what we like about Gingrich's Media and Establishment put-downs, but that won't win the day next November.

To the moderates, independents and squishes:  Gingrich is -30 in favorablility.  Nationwide he has polled the lowest of any remaining candidate to independents, and that includes Ron Fucking Paul.  He might be able to make SCOAMF cry in a televised debate, but we might get two or three of those as most.  People are RIGHT to be very concerned about a Gingrich nomination.

To the Tea Party and rock ribbed conservatives: Remember his lefty flirtations weren't forced upon him by a liberal electorate in a blue state.  He jumped on the Ryan Plan ON HIS OWN.  Sat on the sofa with Granny McRictus ALL BY HIMSELF.  Took Freddie and Fannie money--NO ARM TWISTING NECESSARY.

I have doubts that NG can't hold conservatives or moderates or independents in a general election campaign.  And I know the Anybody But Obama group isn't big enough.

You don't need voters like me to win, that's easy.  You need ones like my professor brother and my upper middle class mother in law.  Does the campaign Newt  is running appeal to them?  Not yet.

466 Have voted Republican every chance I got since 1964 when I turned 21, including that year for good old Barry Goldwater. But there is not a single doubt in my mind that Mr. Gingrich is totally wrong for the party at this juncture and isn't a salable candidate. I can't bring myselff to trust the man for five minutes. He's a loose cannon that will do permanent damage to the cause. We need a person who will campaign intelligently and with dignity for our issues and beliefs, not a backyard brawler with his middle finger extended perpetually. I may have to defect this time. Sorry.

467 Problem with Mitt is when gets nasty toward a conservative then conservatives believe he is just letting his mask slip. They know he hates them and just itching to stab them in the back. Newt's got it when he says Romney is "a good salesman selling a weak product." Romney needs to make the case that Newt feels exactly the same way and might not even get the chance to betray him since he's so unhinged. This will be easy since this race was rigged to make it Rmoney v. a bunch of fucking unelectable retards. When you bitch and gripe that the good candidates wouldn't run, remember they knew they had the GOP establishment who told Romney it was his turn and the in-the-tank-for-the Dems media who wanted to embarrass the shit out of the party to thank for this. Only Perry was dumb enough to think he could take them all on. Now his ass is as good as cooked when he gets back to TX.

468 Huntsman and Pawlenty weren't so bad, either, huh morons? Oh, but PUUUUURITYYYYYYYY!

469 I was not a Mitt supporter going into this race.  But I would 1000 times rather have him as the GOP nominee than Newt Gingrich.  Because I actually think he has the tools to be a good President.  We've tried a series of professional politicians as President and I would like to see what a real successful businessman can do.  America is a failing enterprise right now and Romney has a pretty fine record of turning around failing enterprises.  He understands how jobs actually get created

I'm not so certain any of that is true.  1) being a venture capitalist is not the same thing as running a company.  The VC's don't go in and manage the day-to-day operations of a business.  They hire others to do that.  they spin parts off.  they get rid of some inefficiencies.  All are good abilities, but you are selling Romney as "running a successful business" in teh sense of running Ford or Boeing, or some other major manufacturer and making and delivering good products, etc.

It's not what he did.  Also, I'm not really convinced that those skills necessarily translate as readily as you believe.  Yes, having real world business experience is definitely a plus.  but this idea that Romney's experience will make him some kind of good or great president has no basis other than conjecture. 

I do respect that you don't care whether or not he is liberal though.  At least the truth begins to come out.  Many don't care whether Romney is at all conservative (hint - he isn't).  they just believe that he can win the general election.

Again, I'm not convinced you are right that Mitt would be a good president.  I actually think he'd be a pretty terrible president.  Not as terrible as Obama in the short term, but potentially worse for the U.S. in the long term.

I'm also not even remotely convinced that Mitt can beat Obama.  I would actually wager on Obama in that match-up.  I don't see Mitt as being a good enough candidate to win over anyone.  I think he'll get slaughtered in terms of negative advertising, etc.  He can't react, he can't get past negative advertising.  All Mitt can do is hope the economy stays bad enough that people vote against Obama.  He won't get a majority going out to vote for Mitt.

And, unlike Romney, Gingrich is proven at advancing conservative ideas and policies - whether or not he is a "movement" conservative.

People are hung up on whether someone is "movement" or a "business man".  I'm looking at entire histories.  Newt has done more for the GOP then Mitt ever even tried to do.  Newt has done more for conservative goals then Mitt even claims he would try to do in the future.  Is Gingrich perfect?  Absolutely not.  Is he electable?  I don't know.  But I'm not sold on Mitt being a good candidate. And I'm not really even sold on Mitt being right-of-center.

470 Gingrich has not given me one reason to support him as the next President.  I really don't give a shit what he did 15 years ago.  I think his whole campaign has been one giant ego trip.  It galls me that otherwise smart people cannot see through him, and that most people are just excited that he threw a stink bomb at Juan Williams.

Funny, I've said the same exact thing about Romney - except the 15 years ago part.  I say the reverse.  I care what his actual history has been and its one of supporting liberalism. I don't see how otherwise intelligent people can be snowed into believing Romney is anything but liberal.

471 Christ, he's been attacking Obama on the stump for months! What more do you want?

I must have missed that, but I don't watch his speeches carefully. Personally I think the job of these guys is to show they're the best to beat Obama and show why we need to beat Obama, not what a jerk each other are. I mean between the Bain ads and this kind of thing, they're wasting time on each other when they could be ripping Obama.

472 Romeny is a Democrat . . . 'nuff said!

473 Romney is a Democrat . . . 'nuff said!

474 I just get tired of being told by the elites that only a moderate can win, when that's never true. The Democrats never get told that, certainly not in 2008. The Tea Party was motivated by this sort of animus against the elites. I wouldn't call it anger, more a sense of urgency. Newt made that urgency a key feature of the last debate. I don't believe the people who tell us only Romney can win. I know Newt's faults, but I don't think they weigh any heavier in the scales than Romney's.

475 Romney cannot and will not, until too late maybe, say that Romneycare was a mistake and is now overpriced, and under delivering. That is the One thing he could do to save this. Newt has made many mistakes and pissed me off many times, but he admitted the couch was stupid, that he was wrong on Scozzfava, that he had hurt people in his family. Romney saying Obama is a nice guy put the stake in his heart for me. If he means that he is incredibly naive. If he doesn't then he is mealy mouthed. I remember McCain at the Republican convention, saying stand and fight with me. And we stood and fought, but McCain would not fight! Know the rules of Chicago type political fighting and play by them if you want to win. As far as winning elections, Mitt is 1 for how many? Was he re-elected? Yea Gringrich has faults. Churchill was responsible for Gallipoli. That was a real fuck up. So I'll go with the guy who understands smash mouth and can do it himself without sending out his stand ins so he can look gentlemanly. We are not blindly angry, we are sick of our leaders not wanting to OPPOSE our political enemies because it would be unseemly. Only person to blame here is Mitt. He wanted to be above it all. Ignoring the conservatives who are the backbone of the GOP to court squishes is a stupid strategy. And I do think Newt can win the general. When its down to him and Obama, people will have the gutcheck moment, and the SCOAMF needs a less stark contrast to win again.

476 " Because I actually think he has the tools to be a good President. "

And he's apparently added another to his box.

477 .