Ace of Spades HQ

May 05, 2012

Sat. Nite Chess Thread 05-05-2012 [OregonMuse]
— Open Blogger

Welcome back once again to the legendary Saturday Nite AoSHQ Chess Thread

Igor and Gleb

These guys crack me up. We all know there's a metric buttload of instructional chess videos available on Youtube, and elsewhere on teh interwebs. But I really like these guys. The way they interact with each other is very entertaining. For example, listen to the taunting ("take your time, take your time!") that goes on in this blitz game while both are offering commentary on what's going on as the game progresses.

Here is another one, a discussion of the position from a famous study by Reti.. For those of you who aren't familiar with it, I would recommend you pause the video and try to solve it yourself before you listen to Igor and Gleb explain it. This position is one of the great "optical illusions" of chess; you look at it and think that there's no way that the King is going to catch that pawn -- until you see the solution.

I have no idea who these guys are, I think one of them may be an Israeli NM or IM, but I don't know for sure.

Unfortunately, Igor and Gleb only made 3 or 4 other videos. Which is a shame, because I think they're entertaining enough that they probably could have cranked out a whole series of instructional topics and their schtick wouldn't have gotten old.

I can't say that about this next bit.

Extreeeeeme Chess!

I love chess very much, but I am realistic enough to know that it is never going to be a spectator sport. Not for large audiences, anyway, and definitely not in America. Even though the largest audience in PBS history was the one they got for the Fischer-Spassky WC match. I think this was an outlier. The fact is, some things just don't work well on TV. What could be more antithetical to the zap and pow that modern television demands than a bunch of geeks and fat guys hunched over chessboards for a couple of hours?

So I have to give these guys credit for at least trying to make it exciting, and for trying to communicate the struggles that go on in a chess game. I'm not sure if what they're doing actually works, so judge for yourself. It's the X Chess Championships, Episode 1. Other episodes are available.

One thing that I think detracts from this effort is that the primary woman commentator has a voice with a "Valley Girl" quality that makes it really, really annoying. Also, and this is just a technical note, they should make all the games available online in PGN format. I would have liked to have taken a closer look at that second game, for example, where White was on the ropes and in severe time trouble, and yet somehow managed to come back and win.

There are other episodes available to watch, but the main question is, can this format work, or is it just too silly?
Game of the Week

This week's famous chess game is Petrosian vs Gligoric, Zagreb 1970. Watch as Gliga brilliantly sacs a knight which enables him to launch a ferocious king-side attack. Petrosian tried to defend, but after about move 22, it's basically rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

You can play through it yourself here

Thanks to those of you who have sent me tips for this thread. They may be sent to me at

OregonMuse
and then the at sign
followed by yahoo
and then dot
com

Added [rdbrewer]: Chess, anyone? Add "AoSHQ" to the end of your name, so we can tell who's who.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 03:35 PM | Comments (75)
Post contains 619 words, total size 4 kb.

1 I got nothin'

Posted by: Death at May 05, 2012 03:44 PM (qhHI4)

2 OM, wanna put up a multiplayer flash chessboard?

Posted by: rdbrewer at May 05, 2012 03:44 PM (Iyg03)

3 First!

Posted by: the new, improved arhooley -- now with 10% more cynicism! at May 05, 2012 03:44 PM (xqug+)

4 I got the code.

Posted by: rdbrewer at May 05, 2012 03:44 PM (Iyg03)

5 Aw crumb. I guess I lose now.

Posted by: the new, improved arhooley -- now with 10% more cynicism! at May 05, 2012 03:44 PM (xqug+)

6 Yay! Another thread with horses in it!

Posted by: rickl at May 05, 2012 03:45 PM (sdi6R)

7 The first link is messed up.

Posted by: Waterhouse at May 05, 2012 03:45 PM (nIZa7)

8 Pawns, they are like a field of wheat.

Posted by: Hans Guderian at May 05, 2012 03:47 PM (qhHI4)

9 Also, the X Chess link points back to here.

Posted by: Waterhouse at May 05, 2012 03:47 PM (nIZa7)

10 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at May 05, 2012 03:47 PM (7W3wI)

I love the chess thread

Check out some of the vids presented by MatoJelic on youtube. All short games with devastating tactics, blunders, sacrifices and attacks.

Posted by: Tom_Ohio at May 05, 2012 03:47 PM (ysWJ9)

12 I'm sure the Ocho would be all over showing obstacle laser chess.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at May 05, 2012 03:47 PM (Gk3SS)

13 I was told this was a chests post, so where's the titties?

Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 05, 2012 03:48 PM (jtGyz)

14 Linky no worky

Posted by: Whores, Hermaphrodites, and Lickspittles at May 05, 2012 03:49 PM (BB0/w)

15 I just added a flash chess game. Add "AoSHQ" to your name, so we can tell who's who.

Posted by: rdbrewer at May 05, 2012 03:53 PM (Iyg03)

Posted by: rdbrewer at May 05, 2012 03:55 PM (Iyg03)

17 Here's another game. What's weird about this is who completely SMASHED I was, then the the guy pushed a little bit too hard and I scored a lucky comeback. 3/3/1987 Fritz Dutter Kimes 2132 19xx 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 Bf5 4. Nc3 e6 5. g4 Bg6 6. Nge2 Bb4 7. a3 Ba5 8. h4 Be4 9. Rh3 h5 10. Ng3 c5 11. N:h5 Kf8 Just how pathetic is this? 12. b4 cb 13. N:e4 de 14. ab B:b4+ 15. c3 Be7 16. Bg2 Qb6 17. Nf4 g6 18. Bg2 Qb6 19. B:e4 Rd8 20. Qf3 Ke8 Kill me, kill me now 21. Rb1 N:d4 sac a piece to slow his attack 22. cd Q:d4 23. Nd3 b6 24. Kf1 Rc8 25. Be3 Qa4 26. Rc1 R:c1+ 27. B:c1 Qd4 28. Bb2 Qc4. So my queen is my only active piece. 29. Kg2 a5 La de da. 30. Nf4 a4 31. Bd3 Qc8 LOOK AT THIS POSITION! 32. Bb5+ Kd8 33. Qd1+ Kc7 34. Rc3+ Bc5 35. Qd6+ Kb7 36. Qd3 Qc7 37. Qf3+ Kb8 The nadir 38. Rd3 R:h4 39. Rd7 Qc8 No, this is the nadir. 40. R:f7 Ne7 Suddenly, I have threats! 41. Rf6 Nf5 42. B:a4 Qh8 Rook file attacks are the strongest 43. Kf1 Rh2 44. Nd3 Rh3 45. R:f5 ... offers his queen! 45. ... gf my attack is stronger with his queen in play! 46 Qc6 R:d3 47 g6 Rd2 Sealed move. 48. ... didn't show up next week. Easy win for black in this position anyway. Moral - When you're a piece up, just exchange off until it's an endgame. You keep enough pieces on the board for a mating attack, it might go the other way.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at May 05, 2012 03:55 PM (5H1lG)

18 I see a pattern developing here

Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 05, 2012 03:56 PM (rQiQr)

19 I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it any more!

Posted by: iamahaiangttiam at May 05, 2012 03:58 PM (uXdJq)

20 Come on. Let's play.

Posted by: rdbrewer at May 05, 2012 03:59 PM (Iyg03)

21 Chess Cheer Leaders? Then I might GAS.

Posted by: Barry S at May 05, 2012 04:02 PM (WTejv)

22 Posted by: Comrade Arthur at May 05, 2012 07:55 PM (5H1lG)

I thought only Russians played drunk.

Posted by: Cicero at May 05, 2012 04:02 PM (qhHI4)

23 r2 d2 takes 3cpo

Posted by: YIKES! at May 05, 2012 04:02 PM (Klb0T)

24 X Chess link should now work. Sorry.

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 05, 2012 04:02 PM (xm1A1)

25 rdbrewer, let's talk later, I'm at work now, so I can't do much, sorry.

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 05, 2012 04:03 PM (xm1A1)

26 chess was never my cup o' tea. jus aint got the patience for it i guess, and i know quite a few chess-snobs.

my little niece is growing up very fast.

rugby is in NO WAY a better game than our beloved NFL-football....no way in hell.

didnt that gary fischer guy condemn america and go live abroad or sumthin?

....motorhead still rocks after all these years.

sorry for the random spewing.

Posted by: george lucas's neck-pouch at May 05, 2012 04:06 PM (Jv9tc)

27 The Igor and Gleb video was great.

Posted by: rickl at May 05, 2012 04:07 PM (sdi6R)

28 Chess thread? I love it. But how about a Saturday Night Favorite Joke Thread?

Posted by: Jimbo at May 05, 2012 04:07 PM (O3R/2)

29 fixed the other igor and gleb link

all links should now work

my html-fu is weak.

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 05, 2012 04:07 PM (xm1A1)

30 When I was kid, we were poor.

How poor were you?

We were so poor, that we had to kill the dog to feed the cat (and the rest of the family).

Posted by: Barack Obama at May 05, 2012 04:11 PM (O3R/2)

31 I am here all week. Try the veal. Be sure to tip your waitress.

I will take it over to the ONT.

Posted by: Barack Obama at May 05, 2012 04:14 PM (O3R/2)

32 Just finished this game using the King's Gambit opening - at the end, behold the power of the pin! 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Bf1c4 Bf8d6 4. Ng1f3 Qd8e7 5. O-O Nb8c6 6. d4 Nc6a5 7. Bc4d3 c5 8. e5 Bd6c7 9. Nb1c3 cxd4 10. Nc3d5 Qe7c5 11. Nd5xc7 Qc5xc7 12. Bc1xf4 Ng8e7 13. Qd1d2 b6 14. e6 Qc7c5 15. b4 Qc5d5 16. exf7 Qd5xf7 17. Nf3e5 Qf7e6 18. bxa5 O-O 19. Ra1e1 Ne7d5 20. Ne5f3 Qe6g4 21. Bf4d6 Rf8f6 22. Nf3e5 Qg4h4 23. Ne5f3 Qh4h6 24. Qd2xh6 gxh6 25. Re1e8 Kg8g7 26. Bd6e5 Kg7f7 27. Re8h8 d6 28. Be5xf6 Nd5xf6 29. Nf3xd4 bxa5 30. Rh8xh7 1-0

Posted by: Whores, Hermaphrodites, and Lickspittles at May 05, 2012 04:18 PM (BB0/w)

33 What with Gateway Pundit? O.K, moved from First Things First to go solo was "not found" at old fave tab. Was there few times today now "not found" again. Is he playing chess with his sights and all over the board?

Posted by: Deli LLama at May 05, 2012 04:20 PM (uv9eO)

Haven't checked the last couple of chess threads, but has anyone brought up Chess Boxing?

It's a Scandi thing, apparently - started out as a joke in a movie, then became a real, semi-regular event. Make a few moves, box a round or two, then back to the chess board, und so weiter until things are resolved with a K.O. or a mate.

We should import it over here and merge it with MMA and the Iron Chef format for the ultimate in directed schizophrenic entertainment activity. Maybe dredge up Matt Frewer to host.

Posted by: A. Pendragon at May 05, 2012 04:24 PM (pYA5L)

35 I watched the first half of the XChess video. The announcers were kind of annoying. It seemed like they were trying to show chess to an audience that didn't understand the game. They began by showing the moves of the pieces, then went right into a game. Any beginner would have been hopelessly lost trying to follow it. They should have either tried to teach chess, or else showcase games for a knowledgeable audience. But not both at the same time.

Posted by: rickl at May 05, 2012 04:25 PM (sdi6R)

36 Haven't checked the last couple of chess threads, but has anyone brought up Chess Boxing?

Yes, I intend to bring this up in a future thread. Don't want to burn through all my material at once.

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 05, 2012 04:29 PM (xm1A1)

37 32 Just finished this game using the King's Gambit opening - at the end, behold the power of the pin! 22. Nf3e5 ... 22. Re8+ is pretty strong. Posted by: Whores, Hermaphrodites, and Lickspittles

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at May 05, 2012 04:29 PM (5H1lG)

38 Is this guy correct regarding the sacrifice of the most important piece? He looks familiar... http://youtu.be/2AmwxXaDlJM

Posted by: Gran at May 05, 2012 04:33 PM (hl09R)

39 I only won one single game. In my entire life. Against a drunk girl who had only played three times before. I just can't see two or three moves in and I just freeze. End up playing like checkers.

Posted by: Inspector Asshole at May 05, 2012 04:36 PM (YSyyZ)

40 37 32 Just finished this game using the King's Gambit opening - at the end, behold the power of the pin! 22. Nf3e5 ... 22. Re8+ is pretty strong. Posted by: Whores, Hermaphrodites, and Lickspittles Posted by: Comrade Arthur at May 05, 2012 08:29 PM (5H1lG) Yeah, I realized I missed that the first time around, so I re-maneuvered it back to the way it was and played Re8+ on move 25. The game is not a shining example of great play on my part by any means - it was just entertaining, as accepted gambit games can be, and i had fun tying my opponent in knots with a series of pins and discovered attacks,

Posted by: Whores, Hermaphrodites, and Lickspittles at May 05, 2012 04:37 PM (BB0/w)

41 Comrade Arthur, there might be an error in your #17 comment. I've tried playing it twice and I get hung up on 19...Rd8. As far as I can tell, both black knights are still on their original squares.

Posted by: rickl at May 05, 2012 04:39 PM (sdi6R)

42 The "Valley Girl" in the Extreme Chess clip was Jennifer Shahade, two time U.S. Women's Champion, author of "Chess Bitch," and highly accomplished professional poker player.

Posted by: GolfBoy at May 05, 2012 04:41 PM (M0ftf)

43 A giant board with real, nekkid hawties as the chess pieces. And when you take a "piece" the taking piece gets to punch the taken piece in the face. That would be good tv. The actual players should be world class, or drunk, one or the other.

Posted by: Hydrocarbon Liberation Front at May 05, 2012 04:41 PM (NVu2l)

44 42 The "Valley Girl" in the Extreme Chess clip was Jennifer Shahade, two time U.S. Women's Champion, author of "Chess Bitch," and highly accomplished professional poker player. In that case, she's a damn sight better player than I am, but her announcing was annoying as hell.

Posted by: rickl at May 05, 2012 04:44 PM (sdi6R)

45 Not to change the subject, but earlier today I was looking at a game on chessgames.com: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1008419 Robert Byrne vs. Bobby Fischer in 1963. According to some of the comments, most observers thought Byrne was winning...until he resigned.

Posted by: rickl at May 05, 2012 04:47 PM (sdi6R)

You can just go to the alilg site and play chess, pick the not registered kind, pick your name and play. That way you can still refresh the comments here and post comments etc without getting forced out of the game room.

Oh and rdbrewer is good. Someone come in and beat him

Posted by: Tom_Ohio at May 05, 2012 04:50 PM (ysWJ9)

47 Chickens. Bwak!

I'm 2 for 2.

Posted by: rdbrewer at May 05, 2012 04:51 PM (Iyg03)

48 Tom, you can open another tap with AoS in it and refresh that one.

Posted by: rdbrewer at May 05, 2012 04:51 PM (Iyg03)

49 thanks for the game, and the thread. Work calls, gotta take it

Posted by: Tom_Ohio at May 05, 2012 04:54 PM (ysWJ9)

50 Igor and Gleb are wrong about the optical delusion. White wins by making G3 its first move, then running with the pawn. Try it. Only take the black pawn if it tries to advance. Black king can't catch the white pawn.

Posted by: Alec Rawls at May 05, 2012 04:55 PM (kTTUz)

51 Not too crazy about chess any more, but I really like the idea of a thread that's this easy to get started on this late and still get caught up on in 10 minutes.

Posted by: bergerbilder at May 05, 2012 05:02 PM (j+Izh)

52 Do they have chess on Wii?

Posted by: Dr. Varno at May 05, 2012 05:09 PM (Nk0AM)

53 Have a good evening, Tom.

Posted by: rdbrewer at May 05, 2012 05:11 PM (Iyg03)

54 > 41 Comrade Arthur, there might be an error in your #17 comment. I've tried playing it twice and I get hung up on 19...Rd8. As far as I can tell, both black knights are still on their original squares. Posted by: rickl That's weird. Should be 16 g5 Nc6 17 Nf4 g6 and so on.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at May 05, 2012 05:15 PM (5H1lG)

55 > 50 Igor and Gleb are wrong about the optical delusion. White wins by making G3 its first move, then running with the pawn.Try it. Only take the black pawn if it tries to advance. Black king can't catch the white pawn. Posted by: Alec Rawls In the position IN THE VIDEO, black moves first. Reti's original study had the colors reversed and white moving first - which is the way studies are usually set up. White moves first in studies and problems.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at May 05, 2012 05:19 PM (5H1lG)

56 Igor and Gleb are wrong about the optical delusion. White wins by making G3 its first move, then running with the pawn.Try it. Only take the black pawn if it tries to advance. Black king can't catch the white pawn.

I would have played a3, but that is the idea.

Posted by: fluffy, pedantic end-game 'B' player at May 05, 2012 05:20 PM (z9HTb)

57 In the position IN THE VIDEO, black moves first.

...Kb7 still loses.

       ..Kb7
a4     Kc6
a3     f7
Kg7

Black can force a draw here?

Posted by: fluffy at May 05, 2012 05:24 PM (z9HTb)

58 Igor and Gleb confused things a bit by reversing the colors of the original study, but the idea is to centralize the king along the diagonal and from the central squares, the king is in a position to either chase the running pawn or to support his own pawn.

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 05, 2012 05:38 PM (xm1A1)

59 > 57 In the position IN THE VIDEO, black moves first. ...Kb7 still loses. ..Kb7 a4 Kc6 a3 f7 Kg7 Black can force a draw here? Posted by: fluffy 1... Kb7 2 a4 Kc6 3 a3 Kd7 and black's pawn queens with check so even though W queens first he can't stop black from evening it up. If 4 a2 f7 5 a1/q f1/q+ or 4 Kg7 Ke7 and so on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9ti_endgame_study

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at May 05, 2012 05:44 PM (5H1lG)

60 Breaking news...it was just discovered that Igor and Gleb are not actually "brothers."

Posted by: Whores, Hermaphrodites, and Lickspittles at May 05, 2012 06:01 PM (BB0/w)

61 Comrade Arthur: In your game, how about if White played 35. Ba3 instead of Qd6+? That bishop wasn't doing anything on b2 anyway. White should definitely have won that game, but he pissed away his attack. Not that I'm a great attacking player or anything.

Posted by: rickl at May 05, 2012 06:10 PM (sdi6R)

<em>In the position IN THE VIDEO, black moves first.</em>

Yes, but if you read carefully, you will notice that I said that "White wins by making G3 its first move." I didn't say that that white moves first. I'm assuming that black moves first and goes to b2, as in the video. THEN white makes g3 its first move.

I'm sure Igor and Gleb were not unaware of this way that white can win. I think they were just showing quick and dirty what would happen if white just carelessly ran the pawn for the border without taking care to deal with the black pawn first.

Posted by: Alec Rawls at May 05, 2012 06:29 PM (kTTUz)

63 1. ...Kb2 2. Kg3 Kc3 3. a5 Kd4 4. a6 Ke3 5. a7 f2 Both pawns queen. If White takes Black's pawn at any point, then the Black King can catch the White pawn.

Posted by: rickl at May 05, 2012 06:39 PM (sdi6R)

64 I'm sure Igor and Gleb were not unaware of this way that white can win.

No, White can't win. This is not some position they made up, this was a study done by Reti decades ago. I will show you how your suggested strategy of moving to g3 then pushing the pawn fails, but right now I'm at work, so I can't do the analysis. If someone else doesn't beat me to it tonight, I will discuss this next week.

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 05, 2012 06:46 PM (xm1A1)

I liked the Gligoric game very much. Always nice watching a Soviet grandmaster getting smashed.

As for the X Chess championship, it's more hype than anything else. How could they promote those players as some of the best young players in the country? If you look at the UFCF website, youi'll find Kassa Korley as the 28th highest 21 year old and under player in the country. Keving Wang is 40th (if that is the same guy), Alisa Melekhina is 45th and Alena Kats is 91st. Couldn't find the others on USCF, but chessgame.com has Elliot Liu and Alex Barnett and has their latest FIDE ratings at 2302 and 2243 respectively.

These are all very good players, but if you wanted the best young US talent you could start with Hikaru Nakamura, who is only in his mid-20s and in the top ten in the world. If he is too old, you could try Robert Hess, Sam Shankland, Ray Robson, Parker Zhou, Conrad Holt, Daniel Naroditsky, and Darwin Yang, all of whom are under 21.

I would really like to know why they didn't bring these guys into the X Chess championship.

As for the 'valley girl', that's Jen Shahade, whom I think put these X games together.

Posted by: RC Speck at May 05, 2012 07:08 PM (qkrBd)

66 I played a few games in the flash embed. Speed chess is okay, but it's not really chess. I'm not that good at it.

Of course, if I was good at it, I'd think it was great.

Posted by: rdbrewer at May 05, 2012 07:19 PM (Iyg03)

67 Comrade Arthur: I'm now convinced that 35. Ba3 is a winning move for White. It keeps the pressure on the Black bishop, which is pinned to both the king and queen. I can see all kinds of nasty threats for White in this position, including mating threats. Worse comes to worst, White can force a queen exchange and enter an endgame well ahead in material.

Posted by: rickl at May 05, 2012 07:22 PM (sdi6R)

68 > 67 Comrade Arthur: I'm now convinced that 35. Ba3 is a winning move for White. It keeps the pressure on the Black bishop, which is pinned to both the king and queen. I can see all kinds of nasty threats for White in this position, including mating threats. Worse comes to worst, White can force a queen exchange and enter an endgame well ahead in material. Posted by: rickl Oh there's no need for deep analysis. I'm sure I was dead lost from some point between moves 8-11 up to move 40 or 41. Just goes to show that it's not enough to knock somebody down - ya gotta stomp on his throat.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at May 05, 2012 07:36 PM (5H1lG)

69 Gligoric was a great player in the Fischer era and that's some kinda attack, guess you had to take chances if you wanted to beat Petrosian, one of the greatest defensive players ever.

A chess book I used to own that I'd like to get again is Fischer's 'My 60 Memorable Games'. Fischer doesn't pull an Obama (that's Chris Matthews' job), he pretty honestly breaks down some of his games without tooting his own horn too much. Wish they would release it and Nimzovitch's 'My System' on Kindle, they were fun books to work through.

Posted by: waelse1 at May 05, 2012 07:50 PM (VaU8E)

70 A chess book I used to own that I'd like to get again is Fischer's 'My 60 Memorable Games'

You can still get it on Amazon -- there is a new algebraic edition that is supposedly is much better than the first one (history: in the 90s, a British publisher acquired the rights to M60MG and came out with an algebraic edition that was controversial in that it had a number of really egregious errors that the original edition didn't have. Bobby Fischer, who was already crying like a little girl over royalties he felt he was entitled to, went ape-shit over the sloppiness some other grandmasters got involved, and the accusations and finger-pointing was epic. But now (and I hadn't heard this before) I guess the new algebraic edition has been cleaned up considerably)

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 05, 2012 08:13 PM (xm1A1)

71 Cool information, thanks. Not surprising Fischer would throw a fit over not getting paid his due.

Posted by: waelse1 at May 05, 2012 10:27 PM (VaU8E)

72 I love the chess thread
...
Posted by: Tom_Ohio

So do I and apparently so does pipe fittings.

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