February 08, 2014

Saturday Yard and Garden Thread [Y-not and WeirdDave]
— Open Blogger

This thread brought to you by H.L. Mencken and the cabbage rose:

“An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it makes a better soup.”
― H.L. Mencken, A Book of Burlesques

pink_cabbage_rose.jpg

Take it away, WeirdDave:
OK, it's time to get down to the heart of the matter. Most of us are in this thread because we enjoy growing things. My focus is vegetables, but I understand Y-not is going to talk about roses. Real quick, here's a rose story. 20 years ago I ran a lawn cutting service one summer. I had a push Toro and a riding Snapper that I had bought broken for $25 (replaced the head gasket to make it go). I didn't have a lot of lawns, but one of them was a big place whose owner grew roses. I mean he had these huge beds scattered across his property. Anyhow, one day he asked me to run the mower over a bed that he'd cut back. He wanted to put grass in. I asked him if I could have the bushes instead of mowing them and he said sure. I spent the next few days digging up maybe a hundred rose bushes and putting them in those cheap plastic pots that plants from Lowes come in. I planted 6 or 7 of the best ones at my house and then spent my spare time over the next couple weeks sitting beside Rt 40 in Harford County with the bed of my old pickup* filled with rose bushes and a spray painted sign “Rose Bushes, $10” propped up beside me. I made about a thousand bucks.

Anyhow, back to vegetables. We all love peppers. I grew some Habanero Trinidad peppers one year that would take the chrome off of a trailer hitch. Corn is great, if space intensive. Peas will take over your garden if you let them, green beans the side of your house and pumpkins your entire garden(and lawn!). Celery is fickle, lettuce delicate, spinach limited and don't even bring up broccoli in my presence. Onions and potatoes are a leap of faith because they grow out of sight, as do peanuts although I've never met a hobby gardener who attempted them. No, the real reason we all garden is to grow tomatoes. Tomatoes are the reason we're all here today. True story: In 1485 Christopher Columbus was sitting in a bar somewhere in Portugal. Things were bleak. The TV over the mirror was blank because TV hadn't been invented yet. The Black Death was less than a century in the rear view mirror and hey, that dude over there is coughing up blood. Beer was a way to process water so it didn't kill you, and the Spanish Inquisition was all the rage. Some brilliant soul, his name now lost to history, peered over his mug at Columbus and slurred “Hey! You! Explorer guy! Know what this place needs? Tomatoes, that's what.” Columbus thought he had a point and went to King John II asking for a commission to discover the new world in order to bring back tomatoes (and not incidentally be named “Great Admiral of the Ocean"). John II said no, but Columbus persisted and in April of 1492 Ferdinand and Isabella commissioned him to go to the New World and bring back tomatoes (along with the coveted “Admiral of Ocean Sea” title). The rest is history, look it up.

Tomatoes, along with beer, dogs and my wife, are all the proof I need that there is a God and that he loves us and wants us to be happy. So much flavor! So many varieties! Red, green, yellow, purple, black, tomatoes are a rainbow of taste and size. What's better than a summer BLT with sliced beefsteaks fresh off the stalk? How many cherries don't even make it into salads because we eagerly snarf them down after picking them but before they go into the bucket? How many fights have started between former friends over the best variety of Plum to use in sauce? Tomatoes are the focal point of my garden, and I always plant too many. 4-5 healthy producing plants are enough for any one family, I always seem to plant a dozen or more. Apples? HA! You can have your apples. I like apples, but in a passive way. Tomatoes? I eat those suckers right off the plant by the dozens.

So, what tomatoes to plant? Well, they fall into three main categories. Big suckers. Beefsteaks and Better Boys and Early Girls. The are the tomatoes that go on sandwiches. Plum types like Roma tomatoes, the original sauce tomato. Finally, there are cherry tomatoes, summer snacks and salad staples. Let's look at them in order.

Big Suckers

Beefsteaks are the king here IMHO. I plant beefsteaks so that anything I'm putting between two slices of bread has a big, thick slice of tomato on it. Hell, if you're dusting flour on a dead puppy, I'll slap a slice of beefsteak on top of the whole thing and call it a sandwich. Other, slightly smaller tomatoes fill the apple role in my summer diet. Last summer my 9yer old son told me I looked funny when eating tomatoes, I stick my head out and pull my lips back to bite and then close them over the skin to suck out the juice. I told him I was practicing to be a vampire, truth is I just don't want to get seeds on my shirt. He was more impressed with my explanation.

Plum Tomatoes

I've never, ever had any luck growing these things. They always get blossom end rot. I wind up buying plums from the local farmer's market and then blanching them to make sauce. Don't tell anyone they're not mine.

Cherry Tomatoes

Here's where I'm in my prime. Although I usually put in a few plants of random varieties, there are two varieties that I always, ALWAYS, grow. Sweet Million and Campari. I buy my sweet million plants from Valley View Farms. Two plants would be enough for any sane gardener, I plant 5. Sweet million plants yield long trains of fruit like this:

DavesTomatoes.jpg

Why would any sane gardener plant 5 plants when one bears like the picture? Well, for one I'm not sane, I eat these things like popcorn and two, I've never gotten that good a yield. These tomatoes are like eating sugar right from the cane. Like Homer Simpson eating donuts in hell(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRw_yYOXzn0), too many isn't enough, so I plant 5. Nom, nom, nom. Now, Campari tomatoes.

Campari tomatoes are a bit bigger than cherries. They're about the size of golf balls. During the winter months, they are the only thing I can find in the grocery store that even tastes vaguely like tomatoes, and I gladly spend my filthy lucre for the fix until summer. Thing is, they're a name brand like Xerox or Coke. You can't buy Campari seeds or Campari starters in the store. I had an interesting conversation with a guy one time. He told me that the Campari company irradiates their tomatoes until the seeds are sterile or that the breed is a hybrid so the seeds don't germinate or some damn thing. He went on and on about genetically modified crops and the coming food apocalypse and all kinds of proggy bullshit so I tuned him out after a while, but the fact remains: You can't buy Campari tomato seeds or starters. His thesis may or may not be true, and to be honest I've never even thought about saving seeds from a tomato that I'm eating to plant, but thankfully my motherÂ’s sister isn't of a like mind. A few years back she had a bunch of Campari tomatoes in the back of the refrigerator that she forgot about. When she found them, one tomato was growing a shoot. Maybe it was nature taking it's course. Maybe the GM food guy was right and that tomato just somehow missed being sterilized. In any event, Aunt Carol planted that shoot, seeded some of it's fruit, planted those seeds, and passed out the plants to the family. I do the same with the fruit of the plants passed down to me, and now every year I grow Campari tomatoes. I've got probably 150 seeds sitting in a dish ready to be planted. Any day now I'm going to plant them in peat pots. I'll nurture the sprouts for a month or so, but soon I'll be eating Campari tomatoes right off the vine. It doesn't get any better than that.

*That pickup was a 1978 Ford F-150 with a stake bed. Three on the tree, rough to drive, that truck could do anything. I drove it into a pole one time in a fog, paid a body shop to straighten the frame rails, replaced the radiator and it was good to go. I moved an entire 8X8 shed on the back of that truck. The shed was fork lifted onto the bed, ratchet strapped down, and I drove it home. Stupidest thing I ever did was sell that truck, but at the time it seemed like a good idea. I'd give (not anything, but a lot) to have that truck back. Hell, it had a gun rack behind the seat, what more do you want?


And now from your co-hostess, Y-not:

We have several experts on roses amongst the Moron Horde – I’m not one of them, but in light of the upcoming Valentine’s Day holiday, I thought it might be appropriate to devote part of the Yard & Garden thread to roses.

ValentineÂ’s Day is third behind Christmas and MotherÂ’s Day in flower gifting. A whopping 63% of the flowers given on this day are red roses.

Now, as it turns out, many women prefer other rose colors. I myself prefer very pale shades of pink, yellow, or apricot. I tried to find some data on which colors women prefer, but really couldnÂ’t find anything very convincing. (My advice to the morons is find out what color she prefers rather than just automatically buying red roses.)

Now, if you are one of our one percenter morons (you know who you are and may I just say "how YOU doin'?"), you might like to get a bit more extravagant and have a rose named for your lady love. The folks at World of Roses who are located across the Pond charge about $1300.

Closer to home, you might check out this Canadian outfit, although their prices seem to be quite a bit higher.

Or perhaps youÂ’d like to grow your own roses, but donÂ’t know how to get started. HereÂ’s a very good resource to help those of us who are new to rose gardening get started. I particularly like this one as it walks you through the process of choosing a variety of rose, selecting and prepping a site, as well as how to plant and care for them.

This is another useful resource for beginners. I like that this one includes a seasonal “to do” list for caring for your roses in the garden.

Finally, you might even want to meet others in your area who are interested in gardening. One way to do so is to see if there are any gardening Meetup groups near you. For those who don’t know, Meetup is a free user-driven networking service. I had some luck finding fellow puppy owners who were organizing “play dates” back when we lived in California. YMMV.

**UPDATE FROM OUTHERE IN THE COMMENTS: Before you dive into the world of roses, the horde may consider the ongoing movement back to old, hardy rose varieties. A couple of places to start if you are considering getting into roses are The Antique Rose Emporium and Chamblee Rose Nursey. I'm not advocating shopping at either, although I have purchased from both and they are great, but the information provided gives a new perspective on roses. They can be bulletproof plants, bloom constantly, and trouble-free. One key - at least from my perspective - is to incorporate roses into the general landscape and not create a "rose garden". They can be great, great landscape plants and many of the newer varieties offered by garden shops around the country may do a disservice to roses by only offering finicky, hard-to-maintain varieties (other than the ubiquitous knock-outs).**

To wrap up this weekÂ’s program with some eye-candy, it turns out Rose is a pretty popular name, both as a first and last name. I had no difficulty in finding attractive Roses to tantalize the Morons. Ultimately, I settled on Pania Rose, who was featured in the 2006 Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition (link to SI).

06_extra06_prose_16.jpg

Now THAT'S a hot tomato!

Sadly, my efforts to find an attractive MALE Rose for the ‘ettes was less-successful. Most of the hits I got were either meh sports stars (or positively fugly ones like Pete Rose) or, more alarmingly, pron stars. No way I’m clicking those links, not even for my fellow moronettes. Sorry gals!

HereÂ’s a male Rose that some of you may enjoy: Axl Rose.

This “fail” performance of Welcome to the Jungle suggests Mr. Rose’s days may be numbered.


Yeesh!

OK, to be kind, hereÂ’s Axl in better days performing Sweet Child OÂ’ Mine:



What's happening in YOUR garden?

Posted by: Open Blogger at 06:15 AM | Comments (225)
Post contains 2251 words, total size 14 kb.

1 I'll put up an open politics thread in a couple of minutes.

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 06:18 AM (zDsvJ)

2 Where are the Kate Upton in space photos?

Posted by: gm at February 08, 2014 06:21 AM (K0tm3)

3 Check out the Thorns on that one.

Posted by: Zakn at February 08, 2014 06:24 AM (zyaZ1)

4 What's happening in YOUR garden? Posted by: Open Blogger at 10:15 AM Some skywalker, northern lights, blue cheese, headband, alaskan thunder fuck, girl scout cookies, purple urkle, white rhino and of course some purple kush.

Posted by: CAC at February 08, 2014 06:25 AM (jAUQf)

5 We grow habanero, Serrano, melons (most of them are volunteers/mutants this year). Tomatoes, grapes. Strawberries, assorted fruit and nut trees. Lettuce, carrots, green beans. Etc.

Posted by: gm at February 08, 2014 06:26 AM (K0tm3)

6 Well, Maggie's Farm had a delicious recipe' for fried squash blossoms. So I ordered about a dozen different types of seeds via Amazon.

Planted, according to directions on packets. No squash or zucchini.

Tried just tossing the seeds in my planters. Still Zip....

Posted by: backhoe at February 08, 2014 06:28 AM (ULH4o)

7 What's happening in YOUR garden? Posted by: Open Blogger at 10:15 AM ========= 62 inches of snow and ice. I'm growing Popsicles.

Posted by: grammie winger at February 08, 2014 06:29 AM (P6QsQ)

8 I started pepper seeds in my seed starting shed.  Rule of thumb is to do that on "Superbowl Weekend".  16 each Biker Billy Jalapenos, Hatch Big Jim, Habaneros, Sweet Banana, and California Wonder.  Also two "White Hot Habaneros" and two Habanero Trinidad.  The last two varieties do best in their own pot on the patio.

I also have spinach coming up (planted Thanksgiving Weekend), but it's really slow this year -- colder than normal.  Temperatures below zero will do that, but spinach doesn't mind frozen roots.  It just waits things out, and grows with a vengeance when temps get above freezing.

Beets.  As soon as I can work the soil.  That's looking like late March this year.  They'll mature around mid-July, and I'll follow them up with green beans.

Posted by: jwb7605 [/i][/u][/s][/b] at February 08, 2014 06:29 AM (ZALPg)

9 Since Dave brought up tomatoes... My parents like trying to grow tomatoes in our garden, but they have a nasty habit bursting and/or rotting on the vine before they fully ripen. Any ideas why this might be?

Posted by: Grey Fox at February 08, 2014 06:29 AM (75JRy)

10 I think Ace is seriously misguided in his analysis of the tea party. The one way he is right in that tea party needs to back all GOP where practicable. Even if we don't like them particularly. Look at the drubbing that Goldwater took. Reagan could have walked away, moderated his principles, and hence the conservative movement would be in the dustbin. He doubled down. When he came into office, 20% identified as conservative. Now well over 40% do. WE ARE WINNING. What we are actually witnessing is the death of Marxism/liberalism. We just need the right message to finally put it down. A strong streak of libertarianism is just the nail to put it down I think. It allows us to avoid the Ned Flanders bullshit we always get painted with.

Posted by: prescient11 at February 08, 2014 06:30 AM (l5ZHm)

11 Just make sure you are not growing any vampire space carrots in your garden.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 08, 2014 06:31 AM (u7qIz)

12 My parents like trying to grow tomatoes in our garden, but they have a nasty habit bursting and/or rotting on the vine before they fully ripen. Any ideas why this might be? --- I grew some large heirloom tomatoes (iirc Cherokee - I denounce myself) and almost half of them developed patches of brown skin with squishy fruit near where they attach to the stems. I was told that this was from too much water. Even aside from taht, I wasn't happy with those tomatoes. They ripened too late in the season to be worth the effort.

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 06:33 AM (zDsvJ)

13 ut they have a nasty habit bursting and/or rotting on the vine before they fully ripen. Any ideas why this might be?
=======
I believe, and I may be wrong, but it may have to do with the way you water. I've heard that spraying the plant leaves droplets on the bottom of the tomato that encourages/allows rot.

Water the ground only.


Posted by: RoyalOil at February 08, 2014 06:33 AM (VjL9S)

14 I'd like an early ripening large tomato. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 06:36 AM (zDsvJ)

15 Try starting your plum tomatoes from the nursery in a small pot before you put them in the ground.  Let them gain some height, then pinch off a few of the bottom branches about 1/2 inch from the stem, and bury them a little deeper than seems necessary.  Roots will grow out of the stem anywhere that dirt covers it.

Blossom end rot is supposedly caused by inconsistent watering (wet and dry), and its thought to interfere with calcium intake of the plant.  Getting the roots deeper makes them less likely to get too dry.

Posted by: gastorgrab at February 08, 2014 06:36 AM (FX38i)

16 Yeah I'm pretty sure I killed my experimental roses. One got Rosaria virus and the other I pruned back to early by not paying attention to the weather (and got bad advice from my wife's aunts who grow roses, but apparently don't actually care for them.) We shall see. I like the location for roses, but I may need to switch to knockouts (even though they don't smell as nice.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at February 08, 2014 06:36 AM (GaqMa)

17 AS for me.

Here in West Texas, still trying to nail down the best way to grow in the limited space I have; and deal with the dry heat.

The wife don't know it yet, but a big chunk of the front "landscaping" this year is going to be converted to garden.

Gotta be tricksy. Though, as I understand it, tomatoes were originally grown as ornamental because--being a relative of nightshade--everyone thought the fruit was poisonous like the vines.
Not sure about that being true; can't believe it.

Posted by: RoyalOil at February 08, 2014 06:40 AM (VjL9S)

18 >>16 Yeah I'm pretty sure I killed my experimental roses. I find roses intimidating, but I inherited some what I think are called "shrub" roses in this house. They are not as fugly plants as traditional rose bushes and they bloom continuously once they get going. They make those smaller flowers that I used to call tea roses. So far I haven't had to do anything to them except some pruning for shape. Last year I pruned them before winter. This year after reading a little I just cut off the flower-bearing parts and will try pruning them before spring gets under way.

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 06:41 AM (zDsvJ)

19 I like to grow interesting, showy veggies along the edges of my 12 raised beds garden. Kohl Rabi is great in slaw, and crunchy when tossed into grilled veggies. Bright Lights chard is a winner, too. The deer and rabbits tend to leave these guys alone. I grow gourds and pumpkins for fun in largely mulch covered landscaped beds, but this year am looking forward to growing loofah!!!

Posted by: Justamom at February 08, 2014 06:45 AM (Sptt8)

20 Posted by: RoyalOil at February 08, 2014 10:40 AM (VjL9S)


True dat!



http://www.organicgardeningguru.com/tomato-gardening/history/

Posted by: Hrothgar at February 08, 2014 06:47 AM (o3MSL)

21 Thanks guys. Tomatoes around here don't seem to grow well, for some reason. The operating theory around here is that the big seed company has genetically modified the tomatoes so that they won't grow without said big seed company's supplements. I like the water idea better, but my mom doesn't seem terribly convinced. We'll see.

Posted by: Grey Fox at February 08, 2014 06:47 AM (gPfhP)

22 9 Since Dave brought up tomatoes...
My parents like trying to grow tomatoes in our garden, but they have a nasty habit bursting and/or rotting on the vine before they fully ripen. Any ideas why this might be?
Posted by: Grey Fox at February 08, 2014 10:29 AM (75JRy)

If it's "bottom rot" (black portion on bottom of tomato), it's usually calcium deficiency in the soil.

This works for me.  Put it BELOW the seedling roots, or it will burn the young plants.
It's the "tomato blight buster" recipe.
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=15119

Posted by: jwb7605 [/i][/u][/s][/b] at February 08, 2014 06:47 AM (ZALPg)

23 >>Bright Lights chard is a winner, too. I'd like to do chard again this year. I tried it last year but it was one of the few veggies I did that attracted some sort of bug. I'm not a "natural gardener" out of any sort of eco-motivation, but I don't want to have to battle bugs with sprays or whatever. Most I'm willing to do is release ladybugs. So I'll give chard one more try this spring and if it attracts bugs again I'll give up.

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 06:48 AM (zDsvJ)

24 Damn, I almost typed "no Skywalker OG, no care"...but there it is, right where it should be.

Posted by: akula51[/b][/i][/s] at February 08, 2014 06:48 AM (ySU/u)

25 Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 10:41 AM (zDsvJ) Knockouts are that resilient. grow, hedgetrimmer, repeat. Sadly, in my "new house!" excitement we picked up some bare root hybrid tea roses (identifiable in part by the single rose at the end of the stem.) Which, apparently are the hardest roses to grow. On the up side, they only cost $2/plant, and while I suppose you get what you pay for I learned a lot. Don't get me wrong, they're beautiful roses: http://goo.gl/a32xDK (The other plant is a peach colored with pink accents.) But I screwed up

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at February 08, 2014 06:48 AM (GaqMa)

26 An old English lady I worked a summer for planted her tomatoes thus:

Buy the tallest she could find, 12 to 18 inches or more.
Dig a hole some 2 feet deep.
Epson salt and fertilizer in the bottom, stir and mix in with the loose dirt.
Cut off all limbs but the top two to three inches; leaving the roots, a bare main stem and 2 to 3 inch crown.
Plant the plants buried all the way up to that crown.
She'd get plants some 5 to 6 feet tall supported inside a 3+feet diameter pig wire cage.

I did the same one year, got the same results.
But, they got a bad case of yellow leaf curl and premature death. Which, according to the diagnostic book at the garden center is due to a fungus that lives in the soil and there really is no cure except try somewhere else.

(remember those books? haven't seen one in years. some five inches thick, with every plant ailment known and many pictures for identification, and the recommended cures.)

Posted by: RoyalOil at February 08, 2014 06:50 AM (VjL9S)

27 14 I'd like an early ripening large tomato. Any recommendations would be appreciated.
Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 10:36 AM (zDsvJ)

I like Celebrity.
Most varieties are Determinate, but Burpee sells one variety that is Indeterminate.

Posted by: jwb7605 [/i][/u][/s][/b] at February 08, 2014 06:50 AM (ZALPg)

28 Dave, I think you and my dad (and my grandpa) had the same truck. My dad still says he never should have sold his either. (My 91 year old grandpa still has his. Drives it to work everyday at the family business he "retired" from 30 years ago.) On the tomato front, what are the best varieties for containers? I've had no luck starting things in the ground at this house, so this year I'm thinking about getting some big pots and putting them on the patio.

Posted by: ruby at February 08, 2014 06:51 AM (vt4Ip)

29 Sorry to throw in a political post. I can't think of gardening yet in this winter....

Posted by: prescient11 at February 08, 2014 06:52 AM (l5ZHm)

30 I'm hoping Carol shows up this morning b/c I think she may be one of our resident rose experts.

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 06:52 AM (zDsvJ)

31 I have a desert rode potted plant that someone gave me this past summer.  I had been taking it out on the back porch for Sun everyday during the Winter.  Forgot to bring it in the other night.  It got down to 28F and the plant looks pretty bad now.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 08, 2014 06:53 AM (T2V/1)

32 I dont care particularly for tea roses. I grow cabbage roses and David Austin English roses.

Posted by: grammie winger at February 08, 2014 06:53 AM (P6QsQ)

33 should be desert rose

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 08, 2014 06:53 AM (T2V/1)

34 Posted by: RoyalOil at February 08, 2014 10:50 AM (VjL9S) You know. I should probably chime in here. My family has been growing tomatoes in the river bottom for a couple of generations now. Grandpa always said it came down to 1 thing: dirt. Good dirt (river bottom dirt in his case) and good drainage. To little drainage and the water will either kill your plants or rot your tomatoes. My luck with growing them in pots has been mixed. You have to fertilize the crap out of them. Eventually I just gave up. My great uncle still grows about 10 plants each year and he get a barrel full of tomatoes the size of my fist.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at February 08, 2014 06:54 AM (GaqMa)

35 My garden is currently growing more snow in near white out conditions. That doesn't stop me from thinking about spring and ordering seeds and transplants. As far as cherry tomatoes are concerned we gorge every summer and fall on a variety called Mexico Midgets. But then we are insensitive card carrying members of the VRWC.

Posted by: Angel with a sword at February 08, 2014 06:54 AM (hpgw1)

36 >>29 Sorry to throw in a political post. Apologies not necessary, prescient. There is an open thread down below now although there's not a heckuva lotta political talk on it right now.

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 06:55 AM (zDsvJ)

37 On the tomato front, what are the best varieties for containers? I've had no luck starting things in the ground at this house, so this year I'm thinking about getting some big pots and putting them on the patio.
Posted by: ruby at February 08, 2014 10:51 AM (vt4Ip)

I always start Celebrity for my neighbor.
In any case, pick a determinate type, because they're the "bush" type and not the "climbing" type of plant.
Downside is that they bear all at once, where indeterminate types usually produce until after the first killing frost.

Posted by: jwb7605 [/i][/u][/s][/b] at February 08, 2014 06:55 AM (ZALPg)

38 Posted by: Angel with a sword at February 08, 2014 10:54 AM (hpgw1) I found the seeds for perennial plants my wife bought last year we never used. I bought a $6 seedling kit (one of those plastic numbers with the expanding dirt pucks) We're going to see what we can get out of them!

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at February 08, 2014 06:55 AM (GaqMa)

39 Supersweet 100 I start mine in April http://www.burpee.com/vegetables/tomatoes/cherry/tomato-super-sweet-100-hybrid-prod001013.html

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 08, 2014 06:56 AM (aDwsi)

40 Before you dive into the world of roses, the horde may consider the ongoing movement back to old, hardy rose varieties. A couple of places to start if you are considering getting into roses are http://tinyurl.com/lmsc3xm and http://tinyurl.com/pf27qkd. I'm not advocating shopping at either, although I have purchased from both and they are great, but the information provided gives a new perspective on roses. They can be bulletproof plants, bloom constantly, and trouble-free. One key - at least from my perspective - is to incorporate roses into the general landscape and not create a "rose garden". They can be great, great landscape plants and many of the newer varieties offered by garden shops around the country may do a disservice to roses by only offering finicky, hard-to-maintain varieties (other than the ubiquitous knock-outs).

Posted by: outhere at February 08, 2014 06:56 AM (hMxnF)

41 Fuck me.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at February 08, 2014 06:56 AM (GaqMa)

42 Barrel!

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 06:56 AM (zDsvJ)

43 Barrel

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 08, 2014 06:56 AM (aDwsi)

44 Again!

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at February 08, 2014 06:56 AM (GaqMa)

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 08, 2014 06:56 AM (aDwsi)

46 Tomatoes around here don't seem to grow well, for some reason. The operating theory around here is that the big seed company has genetically modified the tomatoes so that they won't grow without said big seed company's supplements. >>>

You could test that theory and plant some of these.

http://www.heirloomseeds.com/tomatoes.htm

Posted by: The Hickster at February 08, 2014 06:57 AM (TI3xG)

47 tsr - So..., you do barrel gardening, right?

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 08, 2014 06:57 AM (aDwsi)

48 I understand that barrel soil is particularly fecund.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 08, 2014 06:58 AM (aDwsi)

49 OK I fixed that. I'll say one thing then them I'm off to get coffee...I mean barreled Posted by: ruby at February 08, 2014 10:51 AM (vt4Ip) My mom always had luck with Roma tomatoes in the pots. It's a type of plumb that's fairly hearty. Low acidity too.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at February 08, 2014 06:58 AM (GaqMa)

50 Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 08, 2014 10:58 AM (aDwsi) HA! It was a ploy. Now I get all the good manure for my garden! Suckers!

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at February 08, 2014 06:58 AM (GaqMa)

51 I think the drainage is what's been doing my tomatoes in. My husband told me I should just take the money I would spend at various local garden centers and spend it at the farmer's market. Less cussing involved, and I'd at least have tomatoes to show for it.

Posted by: ruby at February 08, 2014 06:59 AM (vt4Ip)

52 30 I'm hoping Carol shows up this morning b/c I think she may be one of our resident rose experts _______ Yep. She's a rose expert. Hey, Y-not, can you see the emails we add in order to post? Oh, and good morning, all.

Posted by: shredded chi - cereal killer at February 08, 2014 07:00 AM (t+Ksb)

53 Lavender Hybrid Tea Roses are my absolute favorite. They smell beautiful.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 08, 2014 07:01 AM (IXrOn)

54 I would spend at various local garden centers and spend it at the farmer's market. Less cussing involved, and I'd at least have tomatoes to show for it. ------------------------------- Have you tried just using buckets? It's pretty easy http://www.growgardentomatoes.com/growing-tomatoes-in-buckets.html

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 08, 2014 07:01 AM (aDwsi)

55 I'm hoping Carol shows up this morning -------------- When last heard from, Carol was thawing out her shipment of Extra-Virgin Coconut Oil hand lotion.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 08, 2014 07:02 AM (aDwsi)

56 I, too, grow various tomatoes. Usually they ripen in three phases for me: The smaller, like the cherry tomatoes first. The table tomatoes next. And, the roma's/plum tomatoes last. I get a huge crop of these for some reason. I freeze whatever is leftover from the season.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 08, 2014 07:03 AM (IXrOn)

57 You could test that theory and plant some of these. I think we may do that. My dad just ordered a Burpees catalog, which is heirloom, non-Monsanto seeds.

Posted by: Grey Fox at February 08, 2014 07:03 AM (gPfhP)

58 Thanks for the links, outhere. I updated the post to include them with your comment.

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 07:04 AM (zDsvJ)

59 51 I think the drainage is what's been doing my tomatoes in. My husband told me I should just take the money I would spend at various local garden centers and spend it at the farmer's market. Less cussing involved, and I'd at least have tomatoes to show for it.
Posted by: ruby at February 08, 2014 10:59 AM (vt4Ip)

Raised boxes.  Totally fixes that problem.
If your husband has a circular saw and a drill, they're easy to make.
(my totally useless site): http://tinyurl.com/4fp2ert

Costs about $1.50/linear foot, and mine (3' x 10') have lasted 10 years, so far.

Last year I added a drip irrigation system.  40 pints of beans, 25 pints of beets, had to find people to take excess tomatoes and cucumbers.

Posted by: jwb7605 [/i][/u][/s][/b] at February 08, 2014 07:05 AM (ZALPg)

60 >>Hey, Y-not, can you see the emails we add in order to post? ??? I must not have enough coffee in me. What do you mean?

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 07:07 AM (zDsvJ)

61 Thanks for that, jwb. I think we should do a thread on garden and lawn care equipment sometime.

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 07:08 AM (zDsvJ)

62 I have over 200 roses. The timing of spring pruning is based on your area, but it's safe to prune when the forsythia have started blooming. Here in MA, it's usually mid April.

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 07:08 AM (z4WKX)

63 I think we may do that. My dad just ordered a Burpees catalog, which is heirloom, non-Monsanto seeds. Posted by: Grey Fox at February 08, 2014 11:03 AM (gPfhP) That reminds me, I wonder if I drove down the road if I could get me some Monsanto SUPER SEEDS and grow mega tomatoes. I need to try that. (Full disclosure, last time I accidently made a wrong turn into Monsanto's campus, I was immediately met by an armed security guard telling me to sod off.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at February 08, 2014 07:09 AM (GaqMa)

64 I have over 200 roses. The timing of spring pruning is based on your area, but it's safe to prune when the forsythia have started blooming. Here in MA, it's usually mid April. Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 11:08 AM (z4WKX) See why all the talk about winter pruning for dormancy? That's where I got all fucked up. (The Virus is unrelated and was probably already in the plant.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at February 08, 2014 07:10 AM (GaqMa)

65 Yay! Carol is in da house!!! :-)

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 07:10 AM (zDsvJ)

66 61 Thanks for that, jwb. I think we should do a thread on garden and lawn care equipment sometime.
Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 11:08 AM (zDsvJ)

Good idea!

Posted by: jwb7605 [/i][/u][/s][/b] at February 08, 2014 07:10 AM (ZALPg)

67 I must not have enough coffee in me. What do you mean? The site requires an email - the box for it is just below the box for your nic. Other posters can't see it; he wants to know if the cobs can.

Posted by: Grey Fox at February 08, 2014 07:11 AM (gPfhP)

68 Hmmmm... I don't know if I can see emails. Lemme see if I can see. BBL. See?

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 07:12 AM (zDsvJ)

69 I would like to grow lavender and use it in my corny, homespun Christmas gifts. I kill lavender. Wah. I am thinking about trying to grow it in pots to avoid soggy roots, but then when I go out of town it wouldn't get watered.

Posted by: Justamom at February 08, 2014 07:12 AM (Sptt8)

70 With the new fertilizer, pest, fungus all in one stuff roses are much easier. I live in a spot that happens to be very rose and tomato unfriendly. Those are also my two favorite things to grow so I have spent years working on best practice for hot coastal environment. Roses don't really take much work now. I do the granular for the first treatment, usually early April, then monthly hit them with the liquid mix for the next two months, then a granular, then the rest liquid until the growing season is over, (sometimes that is until December here) it costs about $1 per plant per month. Dont do the math for a whole year for all your bushes, just remember, it's only a dollar.

Posted by: traye at February 08, 2014 07:15 AM (2+2HE)

71 OK, I can see for the 5 most recent comments, but I don't know how to search beyond that. I'm sure there's a way to do it. I'll ask.

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 07:15 AM (zDsvJ)

72 I am thinking about trying to grow it in pots to avoid soggy roots, but then when I go out of town it wouldn't get watered. --- Would it be worthwhile to try one of those self-watering pots I've seen?

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 07:15 AM (zDsvJ)

73 Oh yeahs, I forgot, this year's new experiment is Hops. I'm going to grow them behind my BBQ pit to make a sort of BBQ patio.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at February 08, 2014 07:17 AM (GaqMa)

74 but I may need to switch to knockouts (even though they don't smell as nice.) Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really! Sacrilege!!

Posted by: traye at February 08, 2014 07:18 AM (2+2HE)

75 I have an interesting suburban subdivision lot. 1.25 acres on a cul de sac, and not only do I have a huge back yard, but also a secret garden through a wooded path. Several years ago, a neighbor behind me clear cut woods on my property while we were out of town. I made him pay for replanting and adding a zone to my sprinkler. Now it is my experimental area, plus it is wonderful bottomland soil. The neighbor is still a jerk tho.

Posted by: Justamom at February 08, 2014 07:18 AM (Sptt8)

76 Kind of like gardening. I want to clear and plant a food plot for Deer this summer. It will be in northern Minnesota. Does anyone have tips on what is best to plant? Just random searches give way to many options.

Posted by: The Hickster at February 08, 2014 07:19 AM (TI3xG)

77 Self watering pots? Hmmmm. Bet I can rig one. Thanks!

Posted by: Justamom at February 08, 2014 07:20 AM (Sptt8)

78 This is an interesting site with unique gardening tools, and a tab dedicated to Gardening. Lee Valley Tools http://www.leevalley.com/US/Garden/Index.aspx I was looking for a composter that spins. They have one. http://www.leevalley.com/US/Garden/page.aspx?p=69083&cat=2,33140&ap=1 With two separate side-by-side compartments, this rolling composter lets you continuously cycle two batches of compost from your kitchen scraps and yard waste In their Pest section, they have this cute little Toad House: http://www.leevalley.com/US/Garden/page.aspx?p=71015&cat=2,51555&ap=1 A single toad can eat several thousand insect pests per year, as well as slugs and cutworms. Made to our specifications, this 11" diameter terra cotta toad house provides a moist, shady refuge to encourage toads to take up residence in your garden. I see toads from time to time, hanging out on my patio furniture (wood). I think I will buy this in the spring. The Gifts section is fun to peruse. I like the Dear Fly Patches - hehe. Berry Scoop. Cherry Pitter. Gardener's Wash Basket. Folding Trivet (I bought two of them.) etc...

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 08, 2014 07:20 AM (IXrOn)

79 Raised boxes. Totally fixes that problem. If your husband has a circular saw and a drill, they're easy to make. (my totally useless site): http://tinyurl.com/4fp2ert -- We don't have the building tools needed, but we found some via Walmart that are similar to yours. One difference is that instead of assembling the sides with screws, they are held in place at the corners with long pins. So, in theory anyway, we can take them apart and move them to another location. I've bookmarked your page and will try to remember to use it when we do an equipment thread. Thanks!

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 07:21 AM (zDsvJ)

80 The neighbor is still a jerk tho. ________ At least you get the stisfaction of knowing he sees you out there enjoying your secret garden. And thanks, Y-not.

Posted by: shredded chi - cereal killer at February 08, 2014 07:21 AM (t+Ksb)

81 You are not supposed to prune roses in the fall unless you plan to mound them with soil & use something to keep it in place, a cone or something. Cutting roses makes them want to grow. In the fall I pull off the petals, but leave the rose hips on. By pruning late in the season, the roses are going to put up new growth that hasn't hardened off for winter & it will just die. Another thing that roses love is alfalfa meal. It has a natural growth hormone in it & because it's organic it also improves the soil. I started with a few roses & over the years have gotten rid of everything else. A word if caution on alfalfa meal, do NOT put it in planting hole. Use 1-2 cups per large rose, work into soil & hand water it in for a few days. It can sometimes make a hard mat. If that happens, work into soil more with a cultivator. I imagine alfalfa would be good for all plants. If you don't have good soil, you need organic matter. I dug up the back part of the driveway years ago. My older brother said nothing would grow there. I have climbing roses back there, one is so tall I need a ladder to remove the spent flowers.

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 07:22 AM (z4WKX)

82 76 Kind of like gardening. I want to clear and plant a food plot for Deer this summer. It will be in northern Minnesota. Does anyone have tips on what is best to plant? Just random searches give way to many options. ================= Winter rye and clover, maybe. That's what some hunters I know here in Wisconsin plant.

Posted by: grammie winger at February 08, 2014 07:23 AM (P6QsQ)

83 Several years ago, a neighbor behind me clear cut woods on my property while we were out of town. --- Holy crap. What an ass. He got off lucky. Coulda really bitten the peach on replacement for mature trees.

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 07:23 AM (zDsvJ)

84 Y-not's Philosophy: Good fences make good neighbors. (Machine gun pits make even better neighbors.)

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 07:25 AM (zDsvJ)

85 Craptastic, Hickster. I am dumbfound. I cannot imagine going out of my way to feed deer. I do all I can to deter them and still lose so much to them. In my experience, if they are hungry enough they will eat anything. If I could get away with it I'd put a salt lick in my jerk neighbor's yard.

Posted by: Justamom at February 08, 2014 07:25 AM (Sptt8)

86 I'm thinking of fencing or hedging our front yard to keep the neighborhood kids and dogs out of it. I cannot believe how many times I've seen neighbors walking their dogs and allowing them to pee or crap in other peoples' lawns.

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 07:26 AM (zDsvJ)

87 I would like to grow lavender and use it in my corny, homespun Christmas gifts. I kill lavender. Wah. I am thinking about trying to grow it in pots to avoid soggy roots, but then when I go out of town it wouldn't get watered. Posted by: Justamom at February 08, 2014 11:12 AM (Sptt I've been lucky growing lavender. The bush just keeps growing, and I always have to prune it back. I hate the actually cut them, though. I sweep my hands over them, and it's so beautiful to smell. I grow all of my herbs in clay pots on my back deck instead of my garden. I use timers when I go away. You can hook up a sprinkler to the area (there are so many kinds depending on the size of your area). And, I use a drip system in my actual raised bed garden. Works great. I had to buy a component for my faucet to split the hoses out to multiple.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 08, 2014 07:26 AM (IXrOn)

88 I've bookmarked your page and will try to remember to use it when we do an equipment thread. Thanks!
Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 11:21 AM (zDsvJ)

Well.  Now I've gone and stepped in it.

You're forcing me to "update" it, you know.
Which may or may not be a good thing.
I've been pondering a post on my "cucumber screen house", which doubles as a tomato hardening enclosure in the spring.

Posted by: jwb7605 [/i][/u][/s][/b] at February 08, 2014 07:26 AM (ZALPg)

89 I cannot believe how many times I've seen neighbors walking their dogs and allowing them to pee or crap in other peoples' lawns. Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 11:26 AM (zDsvJ) yep It's amazing how disrespectful people can be. I have the same issue at times.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 08, 2014 07:27 AM (IXrOn)

90 Yeah, the bulldozer tracks went right over the old flattened welded wire fence. Have a new one now, and didn't he bitch when we put it in. I've also found quite a large assortment of obnoxiously loud windchimes. For the deer, of course.

Posted by: Justamom at February 08, 2014 07:28 AM (Sptt8)

91 Roses like a handful of Epsom salts once a month. It has magnesium in it. Most soils are deficient in magnesium. Water the Epsom salts in & within a week, maybe less, you will see new growth coming up from the base of the plant. That is called a basal shoot. The old way was to wait until the shoot was 8 - 10 inches tall & to snap it. Now they say the rose knows best & to leave it alone. IÂ’ve tried both to the same roses planted next to each other. The rose that I snapped the basal shoot off grew much better than the one I left alone.

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 07:28 AM (z4WKX)

92 It's amazing how disrespectful people can be. I have the same issue at times. --- I know! WTF is up with that? I mean, I've been standing out in front of my house when someone is walking their dog and calmly stands there while it does its business in or on my yard. Any bush I have near the edge of our property gets pee-burned in the summers. I always take my girls for walks after they've done their business in their own yard.

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 07:30 AM (zDsvJ)

93 85 We have customers that insist on plants deer love, so we plant them. Then protect them from the deer with repellant that stinks. It works as long as you keep it going (or more accurately the stuff sends the deer off to your neighbors).

Posted by: traye at February 08, 2014 07:31 AM (2+2HE)

94 Anyone who has gardening thread ideas/tips/links, can send them to me at bailesworth gmail.

Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) at February 08, 2014 07:32 AM (zDsvJ)

95 Thanks grammie

Craptastic, Hickster. I am dumbfound.
I cannot imagine going out of my way to feed deer. I do all I can to deter them and still lose so much to them. >>

This is at my cabin in the woods (40 acres). So there are 2 benifits to my doing this now. 1, I get to shoot a couple of the deer a year I attract. 2, I will have a worked field ready to plant people food in if I move up there at some point.

Posted by: The Hickster at February 08, 2014 07:32 AM (TI3xG)

96 Or send them to me at twitter at the MoxieMom acct.

Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) at February 08, 2014 07:32 AM (zDsvJ)

97 I could have sued the crap outta the jerk neighbor and had my new kitchen years ago, but my husband believes in karma. If I really wanted to get nasty, I guarantee the jerk is a tax evader. Has a small bar and put in a terraced pool with every outdoor accoutrement you could dream of. Probably half a million dollars. Hope he enjoys the windchimes.

Posted by: Justamom at February 08, 2014 07:33 AM (Sptt8)

98 86 I'm thinking of fencing or hedging our front yard to keep the neighborhood kids and dogs out of it.  I cannot believe how many times I've seen neighbors walking their dogs and allowing them to pee or crap in other peoples' lawns. _______ Get Off My Lawn! Really, that is one of my pet peeves (no pun intended). I don't mind a little dog pee on the mailbox post, but the rudeness of not picking up after your pet craps on my lawn bothers me to no end. I've walked a block or two to find people I watched walk away so I could hand them a bag and tell them to go back and pick it up. And if you can see my email, do you mind shooting me a note? I have a quick question for you. Thanks.

Posted by: shredded chi - cereal killer at February 08, 2014 07:33 AM (t+Ksb)

99 If you have space, but don't have great soil. (Say if you live in an old ocean basin from when the climate was warmer and sea level was much higher and the basis of your soil is sand) You can make great gardens with your neighbors leaves. Everybody sits out their leaves to be picked up, turn that into giant compost piles, it takes about six months of cooking and turning but you can make an about 4 foot high pile into a 8x8 bed about 8 inches deep. It's not the most attractive thing to have big leaf piles in your back yard but it is effective. Also, the wood to make the beds should be free.

Posted by: traye at February 08, 2014 07:34 AM (2+2HE)

100 I have good luck with my roses. I had to move my hybrid teas around a bit to find the best positioning for wind, sun, etc. I also have hearty bushes that bloom really well. Like my tomatoes, the roses all have varying bloom times. I've tried the mounds and coverings for my more delicate roses, but, found the snow does a better job in the end. And, I prune in the spring, like Carol mentions above. Never the fall. Pruning always pushes a plant to think "Grow!" I haven't tried the banana peel thing, yet, but, every year I swear I will try it for my roses. e.g. A special piece of advice given by a knowledgeable ‘rose sage’ found me adding a banana peel into the soil mix just below the roots. Apparently as it decays nutrient rich elements are released for the use of the rose. On the surface around the base of the rose generous amounts of mushroom manure or steer manure were applied with a ¼ cup sprinkling of epsom salts (magnesium being a trace element necessary for healthy foliage). They place them under the roots.... I do use rose fertilizer/nutrients every year.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 08, 2014 07:34 AM (IXrOn)

101

I can  wholeheartedly second the recommendation of ordering roses from the Antique Rose Emporium.  Every single rosebush we have ordered from them has been a winner (and  if there is a problem, you can return for a  replacement within a year - we had to do that with a couple that didn't make it one year).

 

Down here in HOT Texas, these rosebushes perform like a dream - the company's "requirements" for their roses are that they be the type that you can plant and forget about.  They are the types of roses that HATE being pruned, and they don't require any babying whatsoever.

 

Can't recommend this company highly enough!

 

(Personal favorites are the "Duchess de Brabant" tea rose and "Penelope" - both "everblooming" roses which flower throughout the growing season; everyone who sees them wants to know where to get one for their  garden)

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (@Teresa_Koch) at February 08, 2014 07:34 AM (PZ6/M)

102 (The Virus is unrelated and was probably already in the plant.) Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at February 08, 2014 11:10 AM (GaqMa) I had an own root rose from 2004, they donÂ’t get the virus, but it started doing strange things last summer. It put out spiky growth, like an aster. I kept removing it & it kept up. I dug it up & threw away.

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 07:35 AM (z4WKX)

103 Just sent you an email from my gmail acct, shredded.

Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) at February 08, 2014 07:35 AM (zDsvJ)

104 You folks have me intrigued about those "antique" roses. One thing I hate about the typical roses for cut flowers is how butt-ugly they are as plants. Sounds like these antique ones could be prettier shrubs.

Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) at February 08, 2014 07:38 AM (zDsvJ)

105 I think Sunsweet is the name of the yellow cherry tomato seedlings I buy in spring - so sweet they taste like fruit. I'm limited to container gardening on my balcony, and haven't had much luck with the Big Boy/beefsteak varieties - a ton of watering for not many tomatoes.

Last summer I encountered a freaky tomato hornworm covered in weird white things, and subsequently discovered the horror story "Hornworm meets alien" on youtube. Mother Nature can be a bitch.

I've grown orange peppers from the seeds of grocery produce - pepper plants are hard workers. That and the jalapeno plant produced more than I could keep up with. Also grow several herbs, and finally got around to making pesto last summer with my basil.

Currently trying to start a calamansi (Philippine citrus fruit) shrub from a seedling and keep everything else somewhat healthy until I can put them out again. Now's the time of year when they get leggy and stressed and pests start appearing. The rose picture in the post was a welcome sight after all the snow I'm surrounded by. I thought they were peonies at first, one of my favorites.

My mother used to grow rose hybrids, and gave it up for orchids, which she found much easier. The roses were a constant battle with the Japanese beetles, mold and fungus.

Posted by: venus velvet at February 08, 2014 07:39 AM (g94P/)

106 78 Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 08, 2014 11:20 AM (IXrOn) -------- Just my 2 cents on the composter - when I was researching them, a common complaint (though not from that company) was that the metal legs tend to buckle since compost is quite heavy. We got a tumbler style from Tractor Supply Co. with a base that sits on the ground. We love it and are planning on getting another one. I think I mentioned this on last week's thread, but the best compost accelerator we've found is beer. A can of the cheap stuff every couple of weeks works great.

Posted by: Hoplite Housewife at February 08, 2014 07:41 AM (7Y+gf)

107 Hickster - for deer plots. I almost forgot brassicas. Anything in the brassica family such as broccoli, rapeseed, cabbage, turnips.

Posted by: grammie winger at February 08, 2014 07:42 AM (P6QsQ)

108 I know! WTF is up with that? I mean, I've been standing out in front of my house when someone is walking their dog and calmly stands there while it does its business in or on my yard. Any bush I have near the edge of our property gets pee-burned in the summers. I always take my girls for walks after they've done their business in their own yard. Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2014 11:30 AM (zDsvJ) I can never figure it out. Either, they do not do the yard work themselves, so have no clue what it takes to keep a yard looking nice. Or, they were raised to not give a crap about other people's property. Or, they think their dog has a right to use whatever yard they want... no clue One day, I watched a lady with her grandchild, as she seemed to be admiring my yard, allowed her little grandchild to continue to pick up my river rock and throw it here, there and everywhere! I eventually triggered my garage door to open, and that didn't work. I actually had to get in my car and move it out of the garage to get them to move along. Then I had to go pick up all the river rock the kid had thrown.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 08, 2014 07:42 AM (IXrOn)

109 I wish I could shoot the damn deer. If I had the space I would like to try something perennial, like asparagus. I have no idea what gardening is like outside of my little zone 5/6. I do have a dripline for my back patio, but the garden is too far away and I don't want to have to run conduit under pavement. I'm thinking containers for the lavender. Or, my snake-ridden retaining wall beds. Ugh.

Posted by: Justamom at February 08, 2014 07:44 AM (Sptt8)

110 I think I mentioned this on last week's thread, but the best compost accelerator we've found is beer. A can of the cheap stuff every couple of weeks works great. Posted by: Hoplite Housewife at February 08, 2014 11:41 AM (7Y+gf) Thanks.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 08, 2014 07:44 AM (IXrOn)

111 I think I mentioned this on last week's thread, but the best compost accelerator we've found is beer. A can of the cheap stuff every couple of weeks works great.
Posted by: Hoplite Housewife at February 08, 2014 11:41 AM (7Y+gf)

That's good to know.
We have about 4 bottles in the fridge from last fall.

My composter is home made from a 55 gallon soft drink drum.
$15.00

Posted by: jwb7605 [/i][/u][/s][/b] at February 08, 2014 07:45 AM (ZALPg)

112 Building a bigger fire pit in the backyard. Every time we have a fire in our yard, people from the greenway call the fire department. Tiresome.

Posted by: NCKate at February 08, 2014 07:45 AM (K/OhM)

113 Posted by: jwb7605 at February 08, 2014 11:05 AM (ZALPg) exactly raised beds and drip system overflow of tomatoes and peppers, etc.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 08, 2014 07:46 AM (IXrOn)

114 Posted by: artisanal ‘ette at February 08, 2014 11:20 AM (IXrOn) Lee Valley has free shipping several times a year. Sign up for emails. I hate paying for shipping. I tried tomatoes one year in the ground but they grew too big. I tried them in pots for two years & had no luck. I get tomatoes from my next door neighbors.

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 07:46 AM (z4WKX)

115 Snowing here but just ordered an antique rose. Spring cometh!

Posted by: FCF at February 08, 2014 07:47 AM (Khja4)

116 So personal story. My crazy grandma who hated every one because she was crazy, with a baby me as the one exception had this old rose, don't know how old, but they built the house in 1922. This rose has the most delicate pale pink color and is super fragrant. Everywhere I have lived (except Hawaii) has a plant started as a baby from that rose bush, except my house now. The starts I made when I moved the last time didn't make it and we have long since sold the old home place. But, last summer my brother was talking about one of his roses, turns out it was from the original grandma bush. So now I have one baby little start in a pot in my front garden. When the burning times come, traye will be hauling around a start from a rose.

Posted by: traye at February 08, 2014 07:47 AM (2+2HE)

117 >>Or, they were raised to not give a crap about other people's property. What surprises me is around here we've got large families living in very close quarters (typical suburban lots - 1/4 or 1/3rd acre mostly), yet they are not very good about those sorts of "personal space" considerations. I'm just glad we don't live in a cul de sac. Around here those are nightmares with parking and trash can placement and kids playing.

Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) at February 08, 2014 07:48 AM (zDsvJ)

118 Re: Container tomatoes, I tried the Patio Princess type from Burpee. They grew pretty well, but not much in the way of flavor.

Posted by: Hoplite Housewife at February 08, 2014 07:48 AM (7Y+gf)

119 Banana peels have potassium in them, itÂ’s good for the soil in the plant holes.

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 07:48 AM (z4WKX)

120 Posted by: traye at February 08, 2014 11:47 AM (2+2HE) ============ That's a great story.

Posted by: grammie winger at February 08, 2014 07:50 AM (P6QsQ)

121 Does anyone know if any of the News channels will cover the Obama's on Valentines day? I know a lot of people in the country would love to spend the day with the Oblama's and what our Black President does to show his love to our lovely furst lady.

Posted by: Dorcus Blimline at February 08, 2014 07:51 AM (iB0Q2)

122 Lee Valley has free shipping several times a year. Sign up for emails. I hate paying for shipping. I tried tomatoes one year in the ground but they grew too big. I tried them in pots for two years & had no luck. I get tomatoes from my next door neighbors. Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 11:46 AM (z4WKX) Yes. Thanks. I'm now on their email list because I bought stuff from them. I will keep an eye out for the free shipping. I hate paying for shipping, too. We are spoiled on free shipping!

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 08, 2014 07:54 AM (IXrOn)

123 It's not the most attractive thing to have big leaf piles in your back yard but it is effective. Also, the wood to make the beds should be free. Posted by: traye at February 08, 2014 11:34 AM (2+2HE) I had a compost pile in a plastic container for a few years. Then I injured my neck & it made my hands weak. I used it up & bought a compost tumbler. It didnÂ’t work that well & eventually the rod in the middle rotted. I got a smaller cheaper one & it was hard for both me & my brother to turn. I gave it away.

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 07:54 AM (z4WKX)

124 Love the gardening thread.  Y-not, last week I remember you saying that you grow rosemary.  I'm also in 7a (Salt Lake, Canyon Rim area) and was wondering what variety of rosemary you grow and how well it's done for you.  My sister grows it down on the Arizona strip (7b) but I haven't seen a lot of it up here and figured it would have a hard time.

Posted by: lurker_above at February 08, 2014 07:55 AM (+wO+a)

125 When the burning times come, traye will be hauling around a start from a rose. Posted by: traye at February 08, 2014 11:47 AM (2+2HE) wow. treasure it.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 08, 2014 07:56 AM (IXrOn)

126 Ok, here's a question for the horde. When you plant in containers what do you do with the "old dirt" when the plant dies off or winter comes? Do you throw it all out? Put it in the compost pile? Try to revitalize and reuse it next season?

Posted by: lindafell at February 08, 2014 07:56 AM (PGO8C)

127 Y-Not send me an email & I will send you a picture of my climbers in the back yard. I took it in June in the early evening from my back porch.

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 07:56 AM (z4WKX)

128 Yes, thanks for the gardening thread. It's got me all excited to get going in the dirt. Gonna be awhile😔

Posted by: Justamom at February 08, 2014 07:58 AM (Sptt8)

129 Hi lurker_above, I have two types of rosemary, both of which were told to me by the nursery (I go to Sun River Gardens in Orem) were hardy types. They also carry varieties that aren't cold-hardy, but those they keep in their greenhouse section.) I'll go out in the yard and see if I can find the tags under the snow! :-) BBL.

Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) at February 08, 2014 07:58 AM (zDsvJ)

130 Dogs mark to communicate as much as to relieve themselves -it's tree-mail (p-mail). I don't know of any way to stop that, it's their nature. I try not to let mine go on gardens and I always pick up after him.

Posted by: venus velvet at February 08, 2014 07:58 AM (g94P/)

131 126. Posted by: lindafell at February 08, 2014 11:56 AM (PGO8C) ----------- I toss most of it in the garden and put some in the composter. If it is a really large container, I take a few inches of dirt off the top and just replace that.

Posted by: Hoplite Housewife at February 08, 2014 07:59 AM (7Y+gf)

132 The worst thing I have to tackle with some of my roses (one variety, actually, not my tea's nor larger bushes) is leaf spotting/fungus/or whatever (not the white cottony stuff). I struggle every year with it on 5 of my plants. We live in a humid area, so I am sure to water under the plants, etc. And, not too much. I've tried some more "organicky" solutions, like all purpose flour from the kitchen, which helps. But, I have to really maintain these plants. Picking up the spotted leaves, etc., so it won't spread. I have used some store bought sprays, too. /sigh Any other solutions would be highly appreciated.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 08, 2014 07:59 AM (IXrOn)

133 Ok, here's a question for the horde. When you plant in containers what do you do with the "old dirt" when the plant dies off or winter comes? Do you throw it all out? Put it in the compost pile? Try to revitalize and reuse it next season? Posted by: lindafell at February 08, 2014 11:56 AM (PGO8C) I have woods on my property behind my house, so just dump it there. I can't imagine what you can do otherwise.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 08, 2014 08:01 AM (IXrOn)

134 126 Ok, here's a question for the horde. When you plant in containers what do you do with the "old dirt" when the plant dies off or winter comes? Do you throw it all out? Put it in the compost pile? Try to revitalize and reuse it next season?
Posted by: lindafell at February 08, 2014 11:56 AM (PGO8C)

Compost barrel, with additional "wet" food (coffee grounds, banana peels, etc. etc. etc)

I mix it up (before showering :-) and let it roast all winter.

Posted by: jwb7605 [/i][/u][/s][/b] at February 08, 2014 08:02 AM (ZALPg)

135 Oh, I had excellent results using Renee's Garden seeds to grow heirloom tomatoes in containers last summer. I wound up planting seeds 3-4 times through the growing season to replace spent plants and had tomatoes until the first hard freeze in central Texas. I grew about six varieties but my favorite were the Black Krims. Got pretty big, meaty, sweet, and full flavored.

Posted by: lindafell at February 08, 2014 08:02 AM (PGO8C)

136
Campari tomatoes are hybrids and as such will not breed true. In other words, the seeds from a Campari tomato will not produce a plant that produces Campari tomatoes. They probably produce sterile seeds. The live shoot found in the reefer was probably cross-pollinated with another variety in order to produce something viable.

What these odd  freaks produce, however, may be something poor -- or some kick-ass variety nobody has ever grown before.

I was working on an old manse that had turned into the local yard waste dump for the neighborhood. There were some golf ball sized volunteers on the property that tasted better than any other tomato I have ever tasted. They were some mix of cultigens that had, over the years, bred true. They were the only tomatoes that grew on the property and all of the junk in the yard was at least 40 years old.

I can still kick myself in the ass for not saving some of the seeds.

So if you come across some volunteer or oddball plant that has some especially desirable characteristics it's worth saving its seeds to experiment with. If you can grow successive generations that maintain their original characteristics, congratulations -- you've just created an "heirloom"!

I'm always on the lookout for a new "cherry" tomato variety that boasts flavor over sweetness or yield. All the plants sold locally are the "sweet 1,000" variety, which are very sweet but have zero tomato flavor. I like the bigger cherry tomatoes with more tomato flavor. You actually have to scour the seed catalogues to find what was your standard cherry tomato 40 years ago.

As for the big guys, I'm gonna try some potato leaf "heirloom" varieties this year. After lots of reading it turns out that most "heirloom" varieties are a scam in terms of origins and genetics. But there are some varieties that grow both prolifically and produce great tasting tomatoes. The only problem with them is they're usually susceptible to common tomato pathogens. So it's always good to grow at least one big boy or early girl, just in case.

I wish I could grow for a living. Oliver Wendell Douglass ain't got nothing on me!

Posted by: Ed Anger at February 08, 2014 08:03 AM (tOkJB)

137 I was trying to put a picture of the climbers in back but I didnÂ’t do it right.

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 08:03 AM (z4WKX)

138 all this food talk have to go work out, now bbl

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 08, 2014 08:06 AM (IXrOn)

139 OK, it looks like the puppeh ate or otherwise disposed of the rosemary tags. My fault for not being more organized. I'd just ask the garden center if the variety is hardy in this climate. Another garden center I really like for special/expensive plants is Cactus & Tropicals. I go to the Draper one but I think there's one in SLC. http://www.cactusandtropicals.com/about-us/draper/ As for tomatoes, I was super-happy with "Cherokee Chocolate" last year. The tomatoes start out purple and turn red. No disease issues and tons of production early and often. The only down side is they are smallish tomatoes so not so great for sammiches, but terrific in salads.

Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) at February 08, 2014 08:07 AM (zDsvJ)

140 135 Posted by: lindafell at February 08, 2014 12:02 PM (PGO8C) ----------- I love Renee's Garden! Have had very good results with the "Little Prince" variety eggplant for containers. They are small but good yield.

Posted by: Hoplite Housewife at February 08, 2014 08:07 AM (7Y+gf)

141 I just send Y-Not a picture of the roses growing in that back yard that my older brother said nothing would grow in. It was after dark & I hope I sent her the picture I meant to, not the one that shows the porch.

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 08:10 AM (z4WKX)

142 Any other solutions would be highly appreciated. Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 08, 2014 11:59 AM I live right on the coast in the heat, so pretty much all the stuff they say never to do to your roses are the natural conditions here. I tried years and years of the hippie natural things to help and none did. Finally threw up my hands and bowed down to Bayer and their systemic rose feed/fungus/bug stuff. I've had great roses since.

Posted by: traye at February 08, 2014 08:11 AM (2+2HE)

143 Thanks for the pic that reminds me there is a June,  after all.

Posted by: SarahW and the February slog at February 08, 2014 08:13 AM (Lbv/k)

144 Carol's picture gave me an idea for another thread devoted to Moron (and Moronette) Brag Pictures. So start collecting your garden pictures and in a couple of weeks I'll ask you to send them to me and we can post them. Perhaps a contest with Platinum Membership as a prize?!

Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) at February 08, 2014 08:15 AM (zDsvJ)

145 Gotta go for a bit. BBL.

Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) at February 08, 2014 08:16 AM (zDsvJ)

146 I am looking at a time lapse camera. I rent out the land next to my house to a farmer. This year should be corn. Hopefully I'll have something fun to send in in the fall.

Posted by: The Hickster at February 08, 2014 08:22 AM (TI3xG)

147 Thanks a lot for looking, Y-not!  I'll check with the garden centers.  The last couple of years I've brought my potted rosemary plants inside to put in the window, but haven't had great success.  They went all fuzzy and weird when I put them back out, and promptly died.  The SLC Cactus and Tropicals is right by me, though I haven't gone in there yet.  I'll definitely have to check it out.

Posted by: lurker_above at February 08, 2014 08:22 AM (+wO+a)

148 Any other solutions would be highly appreciated. Posted by: artisanal ‘ette at February 08, 2014 11:59 AM (IXrOn) I used to alternate based on which website was cheaper for diseases. But the woman that owned the business here died. I buy all my chemicals from Rosemania. http://www.rosemania.com They have tons of info on rose growing & spraying. They don’t charge for shipping unless it is less than $15. I wish we had this conversation last summer. They had a sale on almost all the spray material most of the summer. I believe your roses have blackspot. Are they yellow & have black spots on it?

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 08:22 AM (z4WKX)

149 Trying a new place for seed this year out of Asheville NC, Sow True Seed Will post opinion after first tomatoes get tasted

Posted by: FCF at February 08, 2014 08:22 AM (Khja4)

150 Last year the global warming in my backyard didn't melt until mid-May. This year is a lot worse, so even attempting an in-ground garden this year seems silly. I just hope that the hardy perennials (daylilies, hosta, iris, etc) survive and I can find someone to dig up and clean out those beds. Northern Illinois is always a crapshoot with gardening and I don't have a greenhouse to start plants, even supposing that I could keep the critters from eating everything in sight.

Posted by: Mustbequantum at February 08, 2014 08:23 AM (MIKMs)

151 Oh yeah, and I'm definitely planning on trying Cherokee Chocolate this year.  I've heard they're great for this area and they sound tasty.

Posted by: lurker_above at February 08, 2014 08:23 AM (+wO+a)

152 When the burning times come, traye will be hauling around a start from a rose. Posted by: traye at February 08, 2014 11:47 AM (2+2HE) Traye, How do you do that? I have tried but with no success.

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 08:24 AM (z4WKX)

153 tomatoes were originally grown as ornamental because--being a relative of nightshade--everyone thought the fruit was poisonous like the vines. A traditional acupuncturist treating arthritis will tell you not to eat them, potatoes, eggplant & red meat. And it worked for my dad. He did find that he could eat cooked tomatoes with no problem, along with antibiotic/hormone free beef.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at February 08, 2014 08:24 AM (dHKOq)

154 I keep telling myself that this is the year I'll take pictures and put up a website on how to grow upside down tomatoes. 'Til then, this may help spur your interest.

First, you have to understand that this is a novelty. A conversation piece for the ladies, and something for the men to argue about. I'm absolutely certain that tomatoes would rather grow right-side-up firmly planted in mother earth. With that said, we grow a bumper crop on the back of the corn crib every year and it's something of a tradition for the haying equipment operators to stop for a handful every lap around the field during second cut.

Find a secure place to mount your bucket with a good southern exposure and least 6' high because gravity is going to help your vines grow even longer than they would in the garden.

Next, use the largest bucket possible. The smaller the bucket, the more you'll need to water. If the plant wilts and drops the blossoms, your crop will be greatly reduced. I use black 5 gallon buckets because they hold a lot of soil and water, and because they warm up fast in the early spring.

Get some porous soil that can accept water about as fast as you can pour it in. This is another time saver like using large buckets. Any good potting soil will do, and if you have compost mix some in too. A pinch of lime, if you have it, will help offset any acidification of the soil by the fertilizer you're going to be using. I don't use manure in the mix because of the weed seeds but I do make manure tea and feed with that. Manure tea may be included in one of my future diatribes.

Now it's time to select your tomato plant(s). Caution: large tomatoes will break the stems off before they ripen. We've tried dozens of cherry tomato types and have settled on Amish Salad Tomatoes and Supersweet 100s. The Supersweets are the size of a thumbnail and grow in a herringbone cluster, almost like grapes. They're indeterminate so they produce early and all season long. The Amish Salad tomatoes aka Two-Bites are plum sized and tend to come in all at once but produce for several weeks. We order the seeds from Knapps in Wisconsin.

Let's talk about fertilizer for a minute. I have a neighbor who grows the most succulent and beautiful tomato vines I've ever seen using only Miracle-Gro. She doesn't get very many tomatoes though, because regular Miracle-Gro has high nitrogen and relatively low phosphorus. We buy Expert Gardener 15-30-15 at WallyWorld for about $5 for a Miracle-Gro sized box and feed 1/2 strength once a week after the plants are established.

Here's what I have learned about the planting in a bucket process. I hope I can make this clear without pictures.

Get some tomato plants, the bigger the better. If it's still cool harden them off for a few days. When it's time to plant, get a small pan or bucket and put a few inches of water in it, along with a pinch of starter fertilizer. (that 15-30-15 works just fine) Put the root ball of your plant(s) in the water and let it soak for 15 minutes. Then, grasping by the roots, gently swirl and massage the root ball and the soil will dislodge from the roots. Keep working it until you're left with bare clean roots. Leave it in the water to soak up the fertilizer you added.


Cut a roughly 2" hole in the center of the bucket (we use a hole saw on a drill) for the tomato plant to grow through. You're going to want a tall plant, 12" or more if you can find one. I put 2 cinder blocks down about 6" apart and set the bucket right side up on them with the hole in the middle, then pour in 6" to 8" of soil.

Take the tomato plant from the water pan and insert it root first from the underside of the bucket. When the roots are inside the bucket you can pull gently on them and raise them up to the top of the soil you added. Then add several more handfuls of soil and work the roots up again. Repeat until the roots are at least 1/2 way to the top of the bucket. Then fill the bucket with soil up to 2" - 3" from the top lip. You'll want that space when you add water after the soil compacts and the roots have reduced its infiltration rate. The reason for getting the roots in the center of the bucket or even higher is they are prone to wet wilt, especially when young. If your plant wilts after 3 days and dies, the roots were probably under water. We have found that soaking the roots in a weak starter solution prior to planting for 15-20 minutes (as you hopefully did) combined with the moisture already in potting or starter soil means you don't have to water for several weeks. Let me repeat that: if this is a spring planting and the weather is cool and sunny you don't need to water. In fact, I cover the top of the buckets with plastic to keep the rain out. Last year I waited a full month after putting out the buckets before watering.

We have an ongoing discussion about plucking leaves before the plant is buried - some people (like me) think it helps deter disease, others don't think it makes any difference.

By the way, if you find you're losing soil through the hole in the bucket you can put a piece of newspaper over it with a tear to accommodate the plant stem. Don't worry too much because the stem will quickly develop roots near the hole that will prevent soil loss.

Of course, I put these tomatoes out early. Here in 6A, near Pittsburgh, that means the beginning of May - at least 3 weeks before any sane person would even think about planting. Because we can unhook the buckets and put them in a protected area - and because the black buckets warm up well in the early spring - we have cherry tomatoes well ahead of everybody else.

Hopefully you now have a bucket with a little green tomato top sticking out of the bottom. Don't be discouraged at the slow growth in the beginning - the plant is using it's energy to develop roots and the sun isn't at full strength. You'll soon see the plant trying to turn upward; it will turn down again with the weight of the stems and fruit.

I like to add marigolds and herbs to the top of the buckets. Some folks think that the herbs enhance the flavor of tomatoes - I'm not sure but it sure is nice to have some fresh basil to put on them at the dinner table. The marigolds will wilt before the tomatoes do, so if I walk by and see wilted marigolds I know to water the buckets before the tomatoes suffer. Plus, the marigolds recover quickly - in an hour you won't even know they were stressed. Experience has taught me that each bucket (I grow 6) needs a gallon of water in the morning and a gallon around dinnertime during full summer. One gallon in the morning is usually sufficient during June. You'll learn to judge it, and remember that the plant will tell you when it's thirsty. Don't over water and you'll have less disease and tastier tomatoes.

By the end of the season, my plants which are in 6'+ high buckets, have hit the ground and are running sideways. A couple years ago I measured 2 plants at over 11' when I pulled them in the fall. Give your plants light frequent doses of fertilizer. One thing to watch for is Black Spot on the base of the tomato fruit. Traditional wisdom says this is a calcium deficiency but new research has shown it's stress related and probably due to excessive moisture in the soil.

I wish I could show you the picture of my plants in buckets. They look great against the rustic corn crib and everyone comments on how lush they grow. You've got all the secrets now so good luck and I hope yours do as well as mine.



Posted by: Xavier at February 08, 2014 08:25 AM (uUbbK)

155 Wow, great information Xavier.

Posted by: lurker_above at February 08, 2014 08:31 AM (+wO+a)

156 Great post, Xavier. I have two black buckets in the garage & I know what will become of them now. Already know where to put them, too.

Posted by: shredded chi - cereal killer at February 08, 2014 08:44 AM (t+Ksb)

157 What's happening in my garden? Compost is spread and is being tilled in tomorrow. Sweet corn goes in on the 10th if the weather cooperates. Those big beefsteak tomatoes? Here's a depression era way of eating them-batter them, either in a wet batter or do the two step method (milk/egg, then flour-my preference), fry them in the leftover bacon grease from breakfast and serve them with two pieces of bacon on top that you hid from the rest of the family at breakfast. After sharing this recipe with my mom, she laughed and said they ate that every Saturday as their morning snack except my grandmother would serve it on a piece of toast with gravy on top. Either brown or cream depending on what they had. I like brown. It's yummy and easy and filling!

Posted by: HenrysMommy at February 08, 2014 08:45 AM (8wu51)

158 Posted by: Xavier at February 08, 2014 12:25 PM (uUbbK) Could I just put the pot on my second floor porch & let the growth trail over the side?

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 08:46 AM (z4WKX)

159 I grow heirlooms exclusively. Seed Savers in nearby Decorah, IA is my source. They have a good operation going and its local. There are other similar companies throughout the land. Investigate their websites. Heirlooms have stood the test of time. I suggest anyone wanting to have fresh green beans try a variety named Cherokee Trail of Tears. Its a climber which saves space for other things. It has always produced well for us, is tasty as young thin pods or larger pods for steaming or grilling, and if you let some of the pods hang on and produce dried beans you will have a continuous supply of seeds that will breed true year after year.

Posted by: Angel with a sword at February 08, 2014 08:48 AM (hpgw1)

160 Sweet corn goes in on the 10th if the weather cooperates. ================ Where the heck do you live? I'm guessing it's not zone 5a.

Posted by: grammie winger at February 08, 2014 08:49 AM (P6QsQ)

161 Filthy Lucre? Must be my black sheep cousin. Definitely not a Pirate. My garden is a bit limited right now, due to the seas being iced over, the ship is trapped in the sunless Great Lake Superior. Seeds of peppers, tomatoes, beans, onions, and lettuce await the spring thaw.

Posted by: Pelf Lucre at February 08, 2014 08:50 AM (wN82N)

162 Posted by: shredded chi - cereal killer at February 08, 2014 12:44 PM (t+Ksb) Shredded Chi, Do you want me to send you the picture I sent Y-Not? I donÂ’t take a lot of pictures. I just have one I want to send.

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 08:50 AM (z4WKX)

163 @ Carol

Sure. Just don't fall off when you go to pick.

Consider what's below though, because fertilizer has salts and could stain walkways or brickwork.

Posted by: Xavier at February 08, 2014 08:50 AM (uUbbK)

164 Sure, Carol. I'd love to see it.

Posted by: shredded chi - cereal killer at February 08, 2014 08:54 AM (t+Ksb)

165 Xavier, I have no other place to put it. I have roses everywhere. I have a very long handled pruner, I could use that to pick the tomatoes. I never had any luck with tomatoes. I have huge climbers in the back any other place has roses. There is only a walk way there & first floor porch underneath. It sounds like you have a farm when you wrote of haying equipment. IÂ’m going to cut you post & put it in a word document for May.

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 08:57 AM (z4WKX)

166 Can you Morons/'ettes guide me to a source for orchids? We were given one about two years ago that had a couple of nice flowers on it. Once they withered (and the stalks they were on), nothing has ever replaced them. I've heard they're pretty finicky, and I sorta have a brown thumb until I can get a handle on a new plant type. Just a link or two to something like "Orchids for Dummies" would work.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at February 08, 2014 08:59 AM (0HooB)

167 I've talked Michelle into a hammer and sickle topiary next to the Rose Garden.

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at February 08, 2014 08:59 AM (Dwehj)

168 How do you do that? I have tried but with no success. Posted by: Carol at Februa If this explanation is not exactly understandable let me know. I take a piece of 4 inch pipe about 8 inches long, cut two slots on opposite sides about three inches deep. Find a nice lower branch to be your start. Put the pipe on the ground, maybe an inch or so into the ground in a position where it will hold the branch in the slots. Use something to hold down the pipe and hold the branch in the pipe. Then fill the pipe all the way up. (If you wanted to speed the process you could cut the cambrium and use rooting hormone but I don't bother) My soil is sandy so I have to keep the soil in the pipe moist for few months but then I stop. The roots will then grow HARD downward to get to the moisture in the underlying soil. After a whole growing season the entire diameter of the pipe will be solid root. Just clip the branch away from the mother plant. I have done hundreds of roses like this. G ive them away to family and friends. Have had great success like this (vary the size of the pipe to size of plant) with gardenia, blueberries, camelias and many other woody plants. Even grew a tree this way. Butterfly maple had a big sucker right at the bottom when I bought this house, I did that trick with a 12 inch pipe, and let it sit two years (I would dig in the pipe on occasion to check). Now I have a new maple that would have cost $300 to buy at that size. I'm doing the same to a Bloodgood Japanese maple right now. (1 year in) it has roots but not enough to support it as a tree, it will be about 7 feet tall when I cut it away from the mother tree.

Posted by: traye at February 08, 2014 09:01 AM (2+2HE)

169 What's better than a summer BLT you ask?
A summer tomato sandwich -- nice soft white bread (not toasted like a BLT)  that soaks in the juice from the tomato and combine with the mayo into a pink "sauce" -- heaven.  Plus no lettuce to take away from the taste of the tomato. Of course, you can add bacon at your option; but if your tomato is right from the garden, you really don't need it; just a little salt and pepper. Nothing says summer to me like a tomato sandwich -- I wait all year for them.


I, too, prefer roses in colors other than red -- I do grow red ones, but I also have light pink, white and yellow, which are favorite colors of mine and which, for some reason, do better than my red ones. I just love having my table decorated with roses from my own garden. (A little advice: Morons stay away from yellow roses for Valentine's day because that color means "friendship," unless that is the sentiment you want to convey). I especially do not like store-bought red roses as  I've always found they don't open well in the vase.

Posted by: Dancing Queen at February 08, 2014 09:02 AM (FDGeg)

170 Grammies-just south of San Antonio. Right now I'm finishing off cabbage and broccoli, and potatoes, onions and corn are going in, although I stagger the corn planting so the yield lasts longer. Bit this weather may thwart us down here!

Posted by: HenrysMommy at February 08, 2014 09:03 AM (8wu51)

171 Posted by: traye at February 08, 2014 01:01 PM (2+2HE) I bought something from Lee Valley four years ago, you are supposed to attach the pot to the rose & use the growing hormone & it will turn into a small plant. I make a list of all the things I want to do each day IÂ’m going outside and never get to that early enough in the year. I understand what you are doing. IÂ’m going to cut & paste it into a word document & print it out & put in my rose diary. IÂ’ll do it to some minis that have gotten too old and have too many old canes. Thank you!

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 09:07 AM (z4WKX)

172 Any bush I have near the edge of our property gets pee-burned in the summers.

There's always dog crap in my yard b/c the next-door neighbors just let their stupid rat dog out the backdoor to crap all over the neighborhood.  One day last spring I was outside reading and he pissed right on the chair I was sitting in.  One afternoon last summer my cat got out and beat the dog up*; when I went over to make sure the dog was OK, the mom said they were planning on getting a fence sometime, but there's been a half-assembled gas grill in their yard the whole two years I've lived here so I don't expect that to happen in this dog's lifetime.  Maybe the next one's.

My roommate won't let me throw the dog crap in their driveway, but he's moving out next month and then it's on.

* I'm extremely proud.

Posted by: HR at February 08, 2014 09:08 AM (hO8IJ)

173 Backwards Boy, I searched & found this. I canÂ’t verify if the info is good or not. http://tinyurl.com/nq9w6a2

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 09:11 AM (z4WKX)

174 The last few summers I've seen Praying Mantises (Manti ?) in the vegetable garden. They're a welcome addition, but I didn't know that they were this far north. (N.Ill.)

Posted by: seamrog at February 08, 2014 09:13 AM (skoxs)

175 HR - did you start a new blog, as opposed to your old blog?

Posted by: grammie winger at February 08, 2014 09:14 AM (P6QsQ)

176 @ Carol

Do you have room to train the tomato plant down a railing or maybe on some latticework? I wonder if you could find a way to keep the plant from growing straight down and keep it closer to the second story for easier picking? I have visions of a rain of small ripe tomatoes hitting you in the face as you try to balance the picker.

Something else I do (I like to experiment) is drill five 2" holes in a bucket and stick it in a hole in the ground leaving 3" - 4" above grade. Add whatever soil and fertilizer makes your plants happy and you essentially have a miniature raised bed. You might try this and see if it lets you grow tomatoes in your area.

Yes, I've retired to the old family farm. My elderly parents are here and cannot do the outside work so I now do the field work and maintenance. My brother and his kids call me Farm Boy. Can't seem to find Buttercup, though.


Posted by: Xavier at February 08, 2014 09:17 AM (uUbbK)

177 HR - fyi - the ideal location for returning neighbor's dog crap is directly in front of the first step out of their house. You may need to be stealthy about it, though.

Posted by: Hoplite Housewife at February 08, 2014 09:17 AM (7Y+gf)

178 Here are some shots I've taken of some of the flowers around the yard. I thought I'd turn them into greeting cards:

http://is.gd/jEQmL3

Posted by: DamnDirtyRINO at February 08, 2014 09:20 AM (m0h0I)

179 Many thanks, Carol. Looks like I need to repot this one.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at February 08, 2014 09:20 AM (0HooB)

180 166 Can you Morons/'ettes guide me to a source for orchids? I've heard they're pretty finicky, and I sorta have a brown thumb until I can get a handle on a new plant type. Just a link or two to something like "Orchids for Dummies" would work. Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit Orchids are actually pretty easy. Most people over water them. They like a humid environment and eastern exposure. A bathroom window is ideal if it faces east. I have mine in my dining room, I water once a week. I fertilize maybe twice a year if I remember. I put them in bigger trays then the pot calls for so the water can drain through and then naturally evaporate from the tray to create humidity. I keep a spray bottle next to my plants and spritz them when walking by for the same purpose. They need a special potting mix and don't let the roots sit in water. They actually absorb moisture from the air not directly through the roots contact with water. The mix will look like a bunch of bark and may have some moss in it. I have two blooming right now. It all about the light. I just happened to notice that they were putting out flower stalks about two months ago, not roots. I got most of mine in the reduced bin at Lowes or HD for $5 or less when they looked really bad from over watering. I just take them home and repot them in a good orchid mix and orchid pot. Some of mine have been going for 8 years. They don't all bloom every year but when they do it's wonderful. I had one that the blooms stayed on for almost 3 months!!! But honestly, I mainly neglect and ignore them, hence finding the flower stalks, and they do fine.

Posted by: lindafell at February 08, 2014 09:22 AM (PGO8C)

181 Posted by: Xavier at February 08, 2014 01:17 PM (uUbbK) I have absolutely no room to plant anything. Roses are everywhere. I copied & pasted your tomato post but probably wonÂ’t try it. I have never had luck with tomatoes. Thank you. Where are you located?

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 09:22 AM (z4WKX)

182 Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at February 08, 2014 12:59 PM (0HooB)

Are you keeping your orchid at the right temperature? You have to keep an orchid at a different (cooler) temperature to make it re-bloom (the temperature you need depends on the type of orchid). Most of the common commercial varieties require temps in the mid 50s to low 60s F to re-bloom.

Also, when there are no more flowers on the plant, you need to cut the flower spike back halfway down the stem and seal the cut with a little bit of candle wax to prevent bacterial infection to your plant to help the re-blooming process.

Posted by: Dancing Queen at February 08, 2014 09:23 AM (FDGeg)

183 osted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at February 08, 2014 01:20 PM (0HooB) YouÂ’re welcome, Backwards Boy. I hope that it was helpful.

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 09:24 AM (z4WKX)

184 Dancing Queen, Didn't know about the temp thing. Now I now why my orchids put out flower stalks in November/ December. They are right next to the window so they get cool in the winter.

Posted by: lindafell at February 08, 2014 09:28 AM (PGO8C)

185 Carol

Since you have a second story deck. Why not hang the 5 gallon bucket from a rope tied to the railing? That way you could raise and lower it as necessary for picking and maintenance.

Posted by: The Hickster at February 08, 2014 09:28 AM (TI3xG)

186 Re the male dogs marking onneighbors' bushes, two words: Short leash. Honestly, it damages the plants as dog owners are well aware. The main reason Mr Y-not thought he didn't like dogs was dog owners.

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at February 08, 2014 09:31 AM (PDkNw)

187 Last year I dug up my tuberous begonias and kept them in the cold cellar. First time doing this; usually I just buy new ones every year, but it seems wasteful so I figured I'd try reusing them this year. Any advice on how to replant them and get them going for this year? When are you supposed to start them?

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at February 08, 2014 09:32 AM (FkH4y)

188 I suggest anyone wanting to have fresh green beans try a variety named Cherokee Trail of Tears. -- Oooh, thanks for that tip! I'll look into it. Thinking of green beans this year.

Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) at February 08, 2014 09:35 AM (zDsvJ)

189 When I plant green beans I have to stagger the sowing or we get so many at a time everyone is sick of them.

Posted by: Justamom at February 08, 2014 09:39 AM (Sptt8)

190 Carol Since you have a second story deck. Why not hang the 5 gallon bucket from a rope tied to the railing? That way you could raise and lower it as necessary for picking and maintenance. Posted by: The Hickster at February 08, 2014 01:28 PM (TI3xG) I have absolutely no strength in my hands and arms. I have muscles but they are useless. I have a effed up neck & to take care of my roses I have to wear a neck collar & wrist braces. I am not supposed to look up as if I am hanging curtains according to next pain doctor. He told me it puts too much pressure in my cervical canal & I would need surgery. I had two neck surgeries & wouldnÂ’t have a third & I live on painkillers, etc. Thank you for thought but I just could not do it.

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 09:39 AM (z4WKX)

191 Haven't seen this mentioned.  We grow tomatoes in an Earthbox.  This is a self watering planter that you can get at gardening sites or directly from the mfg online.  If you are in the South, like heirloom tomatoes, and want tomatoes from roughly early July (planting in Mid May) that do well in high humidity and sun, Arkansas Travelers just might be your cup of tea.  They are relatively soft skinned, deep tomato flavor, medium size, and extremely juicy.  Also resistant to end rot etc. as long as you provide sufficient calcium.  Earthbox makes it easy to water, no weeding etc.   Using the Earthbox, we have used one of those Basketball movable goals to support the 7-8 ft high plants.  This is roughly twice the size of the plants that we have grown in our raised bed garden. 

Posted by: wg at February 08, 2014 09:40 AM (44Uzn)

192 lindafell -- you sound like you are doing just fine with your orchids without knowing (with a little bit of luck too in placement by the window). But yes, if you want to get some re-blooming in months other than winter, you should lower the temperature in the room in which you have your orchids.

Posted by: Dancing Queen at February 08, 2014 09:41 AM (FDGeg)

193 Annnnnddd it's snowing again. I probably won't see the ground till May.

Posted by: grammie winger at February 08, 2014 09:42 AM (P6QsQ)

194 Here is a picture of the first bloom opening on one of my orchids from today. http://tinypic.com/r/10qif08/8

Posted by: lindafell at February 08, 2014 09:42 AM (PGO8C)

195 My mail just came. I received 7th letter from Mitch McConnell. I threw all the others away. This one has “2014 Annual Support Statement” on it! No wonder he’s probably going to lose to Grimes, he’s wasting money on me in Massachusetts! I forget who posted the polling last night in Ace’s Tea Party thread. I heard on Special Report that he wasn’t doing well against her. I really have to go do some work. I have been home since Tuesday sick from antibiotics.

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 09:44 AM (z4WKX)

196 http://tinypic.com/r/10qif08/8

Posted by: lindafell at February 08, 2014 01:42 PM (PGO8C)


Beautiful! Isn't it thrilling when new blooms come back on your plants? I'm always impressed with the awesome beauty of nature.

Posted by: Dancing Queen at February 08, 2014 09:50 AM (FDGeg)

197 Posted by: DamnDirtyRINO at February 08, 2014 01:20 PM (m0h0I) You grow roses too? I have to go get the camera I bought years ago & need opened. Two summers in a row we had no summer. It happened right after I bought the camera.

Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 09:54 AM (z4WKX)

198 OK, I read up on Cherokee Trail of Tears green beans. Might be too big for our situation. Also, I really really want them for "haricot verts" and the comments make it sound like they might be too bitter for that... is that true? This is what I want: http://www.localharvest.org/blog/48630/entry/how_to_grow_and_cook

Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) at February 08, 2014 09:54 AM (zDsvJ)

199 "... peanuts although I've never met a hobby gardener who attempted them ..."

Now you have.

Every year, I try one thing new as an experiment. Three years ago, it was Spanish peanuts. I picked that variety because the Virginias require too long a growing period for my zone (6A).

The plants grew vigorously, but when I dug them up in the fall, nothing. Very disappointing. Although the price of peanuts does make home-growing attractive, you need a lot of space to grow enough to make even one jar of peanut butter; and even then, it's a crap shoot.

However, my broccoli has always done well. Broccoli, green onions, and bok choi picked fresh from the garden and tossed into the wok with some thinly sliced beef or chicken, and served with rice and a lovely Italian white: *that* is a meal!

Posted by: Brown Line at February 08, 2014 09:56 AM (a5bF3)

200 I believe your roses have blackspot. Are they yellow & have black spots on it? Posted by: Carol at February 08, 2014 12:22 PM (z4WKX) Yes. And, I've tried a lot of recommended ways to get rid of it. I've done a lot of reading on it. It's just a struggle some years more than others. The flowers bloom just fine, just the leaves - later in the season begin to spot and drop off. thanks for the website tip

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 08, 2014 10:18 AM (IXrOn)

201 Agree with WeirdDave on Sweet Million tomatoes. They are my favorite red cherry. Problem is, both seeds and plants are hard to find; they seem to have been replaced with Sweet 100, which is not nearly as good. So I search seed catalogs until I find one that carries Sweet Million and make my general seed order from them.

Posted by: Mindy at February 08, 2014 10:25 AM (mQwL2)

202 Re: Campari tomatoes Burpee has a Campari-type tomato called Mountain Magic. Might be worth a try.

Posted by: Mindy at February 08, 2014 10:34 AM (mQwL2)

203  @ 197 [Carol] -- I wouldn't say I "grow" them, per se. They just grow on big rosebushes in the yard and I just trim it back every so often. I am HORRIBLE at growing stuff.

Posted by: DamnDirtyRINO at February 08, 2014 10:43 AM (m0h0I)

204 Posted by: lindafell at February 08, 2014 01:22 PM (PGO8C) Hide posts from (PGO8C)




Orchids are one of the largest families of flowering plants (perhaps the largest, biologists aren't sure), and they encompass a tremendous range. Some are more hardy than others, and the same treatment that will have one type thriving will kill another.



One thing to remember, however, is that any kind of orchid you see....is a weed somewhere. Grows by itself, among the hurly-burly of forest competition, with some animals gallumphing by and chomping off a piece occasionally. The notion that they can only grow with constant human intervention is, pretty much, a myth. Many, as you note, thrive on "abuse" or "neglect".

Posted by: cthulhu at February 08, 2014 10:47 AM (T1005)

205 It just snowed on my garden so... A thought about Campari... You can't get, buy, grow "Hatch" chilis either. You can't get the plant or the seeds or anything. Why? Because "Hatch" isn't a plant, it's a location. Like Burgundy. Or Champagne. So what you want is some variable of Anaheim or Sandia Hot or something like that and you've pretty much got a "Hatch" chili only not as good because you're not growing it in south-central New Mexico. So, likely enough... Campari might be the same sort of distinction.

Posted by: Synova at February 08, 2014 10:53 AM (7/PU+)

206 Thank you for all of your comments, gardeners! I really do want to have a Moron Brag Post from time to time, so start looking for nice pictures of your gardens, lawns, and even outdoor spaces (like BBQ areas, patios, etc). In a couple of weeks I'll figure out the best way to post them.

Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) at February 08, 2014 11:10 AM (zDsvJ)

207 My phalaenopsis are blooming... pics! http://synova.blogspot.com/ It's super dry here and I forget to water them... when I *do* water them I let them set in an inch or more of water, which if you don't live in a desert you shouldn't do... and I let that water evaporate over a week or more and then let them dry out completely before doing it again. The trick, though, seems to be the lights (the window is north facing) and the fact that phals need a significant change in night to day temperatures to stimulate bloom and the window there gets cold at night.

Posted by: Synova at February 08, 2014 11:15 AM (7/PU+)

208 Have shopped at Antique Rose Emporium (online) and had great results until my honey badger post-hurricane, give up on roses in Florida kicked in. I plan to shop there again when we move West. I also plan to grow peonies, which I have never done, and will pass out from sheer joy between those blooms and antique roses.

I wish I had those tomatoes, right now. Wow. Just wow.


Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Duchess of Something at February 08, 2014 11:15 AM (baL2B)

209 #199 You didn't mulch those peanuts did you? Because, and I might be totally making this up, the top stems have to bloom and then grow down into the soil, the peanuts don't grow on the roots. So if you put a barrier down that would explain it.

Posted by: Synova at February 08, 2014 11:19 AM (7/PU+)

210 Synova, You are neglecting you phals, better than me I only have two flowering. Now that I know about the temperature thing, I will try to get all of mine to bloom next time, if I remember. I'll post another picture, maybe next week when more blooms are open on mine.

Posted by: lindafell at February 08, 2014 11:33 AM (PGO8C)

211 194 Your orchid looks lovely. I kill my orchids. My husband thinks I love them too much.

Posted by: CaliGirl at February 08, 2014 12:25 PM (KU72u)

212 Thanks for posting everyone. Sorry I wasn't around, I had to work today and I was up laaaate writing the thread and drinking way too much beer, the bottles must have had a hole in the bottom or something because they kept being empty when I went to drink. Write, write, write, huh, beer's empty, better get another one. Write, write, write, huh, beer's empty, better get another one. Write, write, write, huh, beer's empty, better get another one. It was weird and it kept happening. Ed Anger, I dunno what I've got, but this'll be my third year growing tomatoes that are desended from that origional plant in my aunt's fridge. The fruit is the size of golf balls, and it tastes like the Campari from the store, so..* shrug * good enough for me.

Posted by: Weirddave at February 08, 2014 01:04 PM (N/cFh)

213 Crunched-up eggshells are great for preventing blossom-end rot. Haven't mastered the art of composting but I do save my eggshells and coffee grounds and add them to the soil.

Posted by: Abigail Adams at February 08, 2014 02:09 PM (RioYH)

214 Someone wanted an "orchids for dummies" link. There's tons of information and videos on orchid care but you pretty much need to know which orchid you've got. So here's a list of common ones available at Lowe's or the grocery store to use for searches. Phalaenopsis - Phals or "moth orchid" - Super common, buy them at Wal-mart... these are the ones lindafell and I posted pictures of. Oncidium intergenerics - These are super common these days. They're crosses between Miltonia, Odontoglossum and Oncidium species. They usually have long spikes of yellow to brown to red flowers and are sometimes fragrant. They aren't hard to grow, either, though they don't like the desert. Cymbidiums - these are the super big orchid plants that are in grocery stores here, now. When I get them they die. For some people they're super easy (an outside potted orchid in San Francisco). Paphiopedilum - lady slippers. They are usually considered easy. Cattleya types and Dendrobium types are sometimes for sale here and there. I don't recommend them for beginners unless you just happen to live in a climate that's good for them. For what it's worth.

Posted by: Synova at February 08, 2014 02:45 PM (7/PU+)

215 Great winter for growing broccoli here in Oro Valley, AZ! And kale, cauliflower, Bok Choi, Brussel Sprouts, cabbage, and roses which do very well in the desert.

Posted by: CRD at February 08, 2014 04:21 PM (mRcWD)

216 artisanal 'ette: "Yes. And, I've tried a lot of recommended ways to get rid of it. I've done a lot of reading on it. It's just a struggle some years more than others."

Try Horticultural Corn Meal - not consumable corn meal you use for baking. The horticultural has the ground shell in it, too, and is a coarser consistency.

First sign of blackspot, dust your plants thoroughly. Dust in the morning when there is dew on the leaves. The meal will adhere much better. Nothing fancy as you can't really overdose on the stuff; it's a fungicide and organic fertilizer. You can lightly sprinkle it on by hand or, as I do, throw it at the plant to make as big a cloud as possible. Thrown with more velocity at the plant, some of the powder will get to the plant's interior.

I've tried making a liquid brew/tea of the meal but it was too much trouble. Straining it was too much of a bother to get clean enough for a sprayer. The dusting approach works just fine.

The only drawback with the dusting is that, well, the leaves are dusted white for a bit. Usually the blackspot is seasonal as it's an environment-conditional pest, so I just leave the powder on as long as necessary. In the summer that might mean for a week. In the late winter/very early spring it might mean for a month or until a downpour washes it off.

I have Indian Hawthorns that are always susceptible to blackspot. Horticultural corn meal seems to be the most effective; plus, I hate the idea of dousing the landscape with copper mixtures. A little too toxic for my tastes.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at February 08, 2014 05:33 PM (eHIJJ)

217 Hey Y-Not:

You're along the Wasatch front? I've seen you claim Zone 7a, but I'm in Salt Lake County, west of I-15, and I score 6b.

Do you live by the lake to warm things up or is somebody lying to you?

https://www.garden.org/zipzone/index.php

Posted by: dicentra at February 08, 2014 06:12 PM (AIGFR)

218 Also, here are some good raised-bed hinges that I've used. They let you set the angle instead of being perfectly square.

I also bought these barrels for the shade and they're solidly built for a good price.

Turned out like this.

Posted by: dicentra at February 08, 2014 06:19 PM (AIGFR)

219 I should have known better than to trust the hyperlink thingy. This blog sux.

Barrels: www.pinterest.com/pin/498984833685045324/

Hinges: www.pinterest.com/pin/498984833686183397/

My barrels, planted: www.flickr.com/photos/36459782@N00/9692052102/

Posted by: dicentra at February 08, 2014 06:21 PM (AIGFR)

220 How about we don't believe everything we hear about hybrid tomatoes, GMOs and Monsanto? Campari tomatoes are a typical hybrid greenhouse tomato. Its seeds are not sterile. Likely the grower has an exclusive contract with the seed breeder. The same thing happened when grape tomatoes were first marketed in a big way. If you plant seeds of Campari tomatoes, you may get fruits fairly close to the same as the original, but there is likely to be some variation, including white cores in the fruit (from some reports). The reason people usually don't re-plant seeds from hybrids is that hybrids are bred from two parents, and the F2 generation will be variable. You don't know how variable until you try it with a hybrid Crenshaw melon. Mountain Magic is a new "Campari type" hybrid cocktail-sized tomato which is highly regarded in the "tomato world". It is notable for its resistance to late blight - a big problem in some humid areas - and several other diseases. Seed is available from several seed catalogs, and is still kind of on the pricey side. Burpee catalog is not a "Monsanto-free" catalog. It does have exclusive contracts for its "house varieties" with hybrid seed suppliers, just like the people who market Campari tomatoes. Burpee does a little of their own breeding, too. I do not believe that there are currently any GMO tomatoes on the market in the USA, but Monsanto has bought up a lot of seed companies, and if you want a purely non-Monsanto-affiliated seed source for modern hybrids, you just about have to go to an ideologically motivated outfit, like the socialists at Fedco Seeds. I think there may be one of dozens of broccoli hybrids out there which some consider to be a GMO variety. Monsanto-owned companies sell a lot of conventional, non-GMO hybrid seeds. Monsanto is kind of creepily monopolistic, but let's not get carried away in imagining that Monsanto is just another word for GMO. If you're going to order from an expensive catalog like Burpee, might as well get an informative one, like Johnny's Selected Seeds (free shipping now if you have "the code") or Territorial Seeds in the PNW. Or one of the strictly commercial seed catalogs which will sell to home growers if you go to the trouble of finding out how to order. Personally, I order from Burpee once every few years, because I have run out of one of the seeds I like which are only available from them. Pinetree is the catalog I would recommend to most beginners. Crosman's has a nice list of standard varieties, cheap, if you live in a relatively moderate climate.

Posted by: KT at February 08, 2014 07:35 PM (qahv/)

221 You're along the Wasatch front? I've seen you claim Zone 7a, but I'm in Salt Lake County, west of I-15, and I score 6b. ---- I'm on the bench in Orem. Zip thingy gave me 7a. Must be a microclimate caused by the foothills. And maybe you're getting a lake effect?

Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) at February 08, 2014 08:17 PM (zDsvJ)

222 I'm on the bench in Orem. Zip thingy gave me 7a. Must be a microclimate caused by the foothills.

I was raised on the bench in Ogden and that made things colder rather than warmer. Of course, we were near Weber canyon, which was a huge funnel for cold air, so who knows.

All I know is that stuff that should survive a 6b often dies over the winter, and that pisses me off.

Tête-a-tête miniature daffodils, Cantab mini irises: they are supposed to survive much colder than here, but no, they die.

Bastages.

Posted by: dicentra at February 08, 2014 08:39 PM (AIGFR)

223 I have stuff die overwinter from the cold, when it ought to make it by hardiness zone, because the soil is too dry.

Posted by: Synova at February 08, 2014 09:26 PM (7/PU+)

224 For Ed Anger: Large Red Cherry is a genuine heirloom saved by Ben Quisenberry, the guy who saved Brandywine for the world. He canned those large cherries whole. I got two packets of seed at Walmart last year for either 20 cents or 50 cents each. It's not overly sweet. Other not-too-sweet cherry tomatoes include Jaune Flamme (Flamme), Orange and Green Zebra, Peacevine Cherry, Tigerella, Reisentraube and Tommy Toe. For larger zingy, flavorful tomatoes, try Marion, Manalucie, Stump of the World, Thessaloniki, Neves Azorean Red or Souix.

Posted by: KT at February 09, 2014 06:52 PM (qahv/)

225 On green beans: I don't know any reason why Cherokee Trail of Tears would be bitter, but it's probably not the variety you want for haricots verts. Sounds like one of those beans that my MIL says tastes "like a bean - not just green." You may have to string it, though. Has lavender flowers. The new favorite round pole bean is "Fortex", which can be used like haricots verts when young and like a Blue Lake type when larger. Bush bean varieties are regionally adapted. "Contender" is a great, stringless "bean flavored" bean for spring in the South, but is horribly fibrous in cool fall weather. Northeastern varieties like Bountiful and Provider are not bountiful and do not provide in the South. The most heat-tolerant bush bean I have found is "Nash". Previously Brio, Matador and Festina looked pretty good in heat. Maxibel may be the best haricot vert for moderate heat. Romanette (Crosman Seeds) does better than most flat beans in heat. It's halfway between a Romano and an American type. Lima beans, cowpeas and edamame are all more heat tolerant than regular garden beans. You might like Fordhook 242 limas fresh better than you would imagine.

Posted by: KT at February 09, 2014 07:17 PM (qahv/)

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