Ace of Spades HQ

December 18, 2012

Speaker Boehner: Time For 'Plan B'
— Gabriel Malor

As I noted in the morning post, President Obama and Speaker Boehner seemed a lot closer on a deal yesterday. Apparently Boehner doesn't think they're close enough. As I write this, he's briefing the House Republicans on his intent to go through with a 'Plan B' budget:

Boehner will make the argument to House Republicans that tax rates will go up on everyone come Jan. 1. Â“The question for us is real simple: How do we stop as many of those rate hikes as possible?Â” Boehner plans to tell House Republicans.

Â“For weeks, Senate Republicans Â— and a growing number of you Â— have been pushing for us to pivot to a Â‘Plan B,Â’Â” he will say. Â“I think thereÂ’s a better way. But the White House just canÂ’t seem to bring itself to agree to a Â“balancedÂ” approach, and time is running short. Taxes are going up on everyone on Jan. 1. TheyÂ’re baked into current law. And we have to stop whatever tax rate increases we can. In the absence of an alternative, as of this morning, a Â‘modified Plan BÂ’ is the plan.Â”

As I understand it, the plan is to allow the tax rate hikes to go through for those earners making more than $1 million a year. ~~The budget portion of the bill would apparently avert sequestration, but I'm not clear what at what funding level.~~ Updated [11:11AM]: The sequestration cuts would not be addressed in the Plan B bill. It's just to take the tax cuts issue off the table and then walk away if Obama cannot come to a cliff deal.

House Republicans are saying that a vote will be scheduled for later this week.

I have no doubt that the House Republicans will go through with this, if they have to. But Plan B has to be viewed additionally as an attempt to put more pressure on Obama to start advancing some reasonable concessions. The entire fiscal cliff debate has been an exercise in Obama goal shifting thus far. Obama just raised the tax hike proposal to those making $400,000 a year, abandoning his prior stance at $250,000. Now we know he can budge, it's time to push harder.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at 06:27 AM | Comments (229)
Post contains 379 words, total size 2 kb.

1 first and mad

Posted by: I am mad as hell at December 18, 2012 06:28 AM (UhXzR)

2 the president is a scoamf and boehner is a pussy

Posted by: phoenixgirl at December 18, 2012 06:29 AM (GVxQo)

3 I have a better way

Shut.it.down

Posted by: Vic at December 18, 2012 06:29 AM (53z96)

4 Is this the part where I say , Let. It. Burn???

Posted by: Sean Bannion at December 18, 2012 06:29 AM (sbV1u)

5
Todays episode is brought to you by the letter B.

As in Burn.

Burn.
Ing.

Burning.

Posted by: fixerupper at December 18, 2012 06:30 AM (nELVU)

6 Actually the Boner plan is to sell us out, just like last time.

Where are all those spending cuts we were supposed to get "down the road"? We are now down the road.

Posted by: Vic at December 18, 2012 06:30 AM (53z96)

7 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 18, 2012 06:31 AM (/eBe8)

8
I'm really kicking ass and it's time to get with the program.

Posted by: Congresscritter John Boner at December 18, 2012 06:31 AM (ndqJC)

9 1950s tax rate will prove to the people how dumb liberals are. Let it burn

Posted by: alex at December 18, 2012 06:33 AM (o8xjq)

10 Maybe I'm just tired but it's not clear to me what Plan B is. Run away? Run in circles? What?

Posted by: joncelli at December 18, 2012 06:33 AM (RD7QR)

Obviously Boehner is being pressured from somewhere, and I can't figure out who it is doing the pressing.

At what point do the House Republicans stop trying so hard to avoid something the President obviously wants? For what purpose, to what end?

Honestly, Boehner is not an idiot, so who is holding a gun to his head telling him this is the way to go?

Posted by: BurtTC at December 18, 2012 06:33 AM (TOk1P)

12 We.
Do.
Not.
Have.
A.
"Revenue."
Problem.

What we have is a spending problem, and no monkeying with the tax rates- or lack of monkeying with the tax rates- is going to fix it. Only spending cuts will fix it.

My preferred option would be to keep the current rates AND cut spending. But that's not going to happen. If this modified plan B didn't "prevent sequestration" I'd actually be happier with it. As it is, the only plan on the table that cuts spending is the one which requires no action.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 18, 2012 06:34 AM (/eBe8)

13 Fuck boehner. American Majority Action (a group I know nothing about) is trying to organize his ouster. If we do not get rid of Boehner, the GOP is worth nothing.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 18, 2012 06:34 AM (5TFvk)

14 How much burning involved in this 'Plan B'?

Posted by: fluffy at December 18, 2012 06:34 AM (z9HTb)

15 Are we done with the secret meetings yet?

Posted by: Clownf*cker at December 18, 2012 06:35 AM (V40IZ)

16 15 Are we done with the secret meetings yet?

Posted by: Clownf*cker at December 18, 2012 10:35 AM (V40IZ)

There will be a closed-door session to address that issue sometime in the future.

Posted by: joncelli at December 18, 2012 06:36 AM (RD7QR)

17 Vic, JB did capitulate to an extent but I will have to agree with Gab that this is both a pressuring tactic and to show they are willing, ready and able to raise taxes.Will it work, I don't know. As far as the shut it down approach.If there was anything other than a radical socialist/Marxist in office who probably feels that shutting it all down and laying it at other politicians feet, then he would in a heartbeat. If that were to occur to the point of social chaos just what do you believe would rise from those ashes? There are other people than you who have wanted to shut it down and rebuild it for years, be careful what you wish for.

Posted by: Drider at December 18, 2012 06:36 AM (HaJD9)

18 What we have is a spending problem, and no monkeying with the tax rates- or lack of monkeying with the tax rates- is going to fix it. Only spending cuts will fix it.

-----

B-b-b-b-b-but...... THAT doesnt punish ANY rich people.

Posted by: The Fifty-Two Percent at December 18, 2012 06:36 AM (nELVU)

19 Â“The question for us is real simple: How do we stop as many of those rate hikes as possible?Â” The question is how do you stop those that impede hiring. Boehner is an idiot. Answer? You don't. LiFB.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 18, 2012 06:36 AM (evdj2)

20 Well, so long as Plan B doesn't involve sodomy with a plumber's helper, I guess it's not so bad. Oh wait... The GOP. This may hurt a bit.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows where thou concealest thy þr0n at December 18, 2012 06:36 AM (Lxw+T)

21 Lib

Posted by: alex at December 18, 2012 06:37 AM (Anjh/)

22 Maybe I'm just tired but it's not clear to me what Plan B is. Run away? Only if Plan C is the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 18, 2012 06:37 AM (GFM2b)

23 Watched Boehner sitting with TFG - fucker looked like he just had his first kiss with his dreamboat.

Posted by: RWC at December 18, 2012 06:37 AM (fWAjv)

24 Still waiting for an Obama phone. All this money being thrown around and Nothing has filtered down to my pocketbook. What's up with that?

Posted by: ETTE at December 18, 2012 06:37 AM (nqBYe)

I don't have time to wait for the thread to season before going OT:

There's a Texas Democrat party leader, blogger and NASA employee John Cobarruvias who has tweeted that NRA members should be shot. I hear he's getting some email from NRA people, here's his email addy. I sent him one.

The tweet:

"Can we now shoot the #NRA and everyone who defends them?" he tweeted.

johncobyATorbitworld.net

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 18, 2012 06:37 AM (1Y+hH)

26 Obama rolled Boehner once again. Doesn't matter if $250K or $400K or $1M get tax increases. Taxes are going up and not a dime of spending cuts will be paired with higher taxes. It's a total win for Democrats.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 18, 2012 06:37 AM (HDgX3)

27 Is there anybody here who didn't see the last "compromise" as landing us precisely where we find ourselves today?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 18, 2012 06:37 AM (piMMO)

28 Go simple. The people will not understand a comple deal.

Posted by: Jean at December 18, 2012 06:37 AM (rr5xK)

29 I thought plan b was the morning after birth control pill. And we're going to need it because we are going to get fucked.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 18, 2012 06:38 AM (Hx5uv)

30
I rolled Boehner like a feces laden shooting marble.

Posted by: Barack Obama at December 18, 2012 06:38 AM (ndqJC)

Doesn't matter if $250K or $400K or $1M get tax increases.

I'm confident that most Republicans (and most Americans) disagree with you.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at December 18, 2012 06:39 AM (IkTb7)

32 Honestly, Boehner is not an idiot, so who is holding a gun to his head telling him this is the way to go? Posted by: BurtTC at December 18, 2012 10:33 AM

I see two possibilities: First, Boner IS an idiot, contrary to your assertion. I have seen no evidence suggesting otherwise.

Second, Boner is focusing on his own survival in Congress and his own cushy no-work paycheck and perks, and doesn't give a rat's ass for anything else. He knows that actually pushing principles won't guarantee his continued membership in the Elites' Club.

He is, however, only one of 536 gutless, greed-driven eunuchs (that would be all Congress, plus Choom Boy) who should be driven from D.C. and replaced with genuine human beings.

Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at December 18, 2012 06:39 AM (yKUrR)

33 Maybe I'm just tired but it's not clear to me what Plan B is. Run away? Run in circles? What?

Based on what I'm seeing, "Plan B" is tax rate hikes now for promises of spending cuts some time in the future. The only question is how big the tax rate hikes will be, and on what income bracket(s).

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 18, 2012 06:39 AM (/eBe8)

34 This whole debacle is a glaring "no-confidence" vote for the Senate, isn't it?

I mean, I'm not missing something here am I?

Posted by: Clownf*cker at December 18, 2012 06:39 AM (V40IZ)

35 Again, it's the long-game. The GOP is friggin LOUSY at it! They sold us out for a deal....any deal....last go-around without any view on how it would be negotiated in the next round. The GOP views legislating as a series of one-off negotiations instead of one continuing negotiation. That's a problem.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 18, 2012 06:40 AM (piMMO)

12 -

Clearly the argument is all on the side of taxes (i.e. to cut or not to cut, and for whom), and none of it is about spending cuts.

What I mean is, none of this is really about solving any financial problem, it's about political capital, and since it's all in the President's favor right now, what we're going to get eventually will be some tax hikes, and no spending cuts.

What makes no sense to me is why the House Republicans are participating in this particular kabuki dance. Don't tell me it's because Boehner doesn't know what he's doing. Clearly he does. What's not clear is why.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 18, 2012 06:40 AM (TOk1P)

37 "Can we now shoot the #NRA and everyone who defends them?" he tweeted.

johncobyATorbitworld.net

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 18, 2012 10:37 AM (1Y+hH)

amazing ... I guess advocating for the killing of fellow americans is now ?? besides fkn crazy> what word would we use?

Posted by: ETTE at December 18, 2012 06:40 AM (nqBYe)

38 A cutoff of 400k or greater is likely to fall more on areas with higher cost of living (AKA blue cities). Let them have it. The limousine liberals have found it too cheap to run their mouths for too long. Elections have consequences. I am done fighting for these bozos. I'm predicting a strange new respect for the Bush tax cuts.

Posted by: xuyee at December 18, 2012 06:40 AM (/QiO2)

39 Let the mother fuckers burn

Posted by: alex at December 18, 2012 06:40 AM (Anjh/)

40 amazing ... I guess advocating for the killing of fellow americans is now ?? besides fkn crazy> what word would we use?

Posted by: ETTE at December 18, 2012 10:40 AM (nqBYe)

Democrat Party-approved?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 18, 2012 06:41 AM (4df7R)

41 Is there anybody here who didn't see the last "compromise" as landing us precisely where we find ourselves today?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 18, 2012 10:37 AM (piMMO)

-----

To be fair to the Weepy Boner...... I think his bet was Barky was going to lose the election.

He lost.

A good rule for politics and for poker.... bet on the cards you have, not the cards you want.

Posted by: The Fifty-Two Percent at December 18, 2012 06:41 AM (nELVU)

42 Just.Do.Nothing. A bunch of these Congressmen are lame ducks anyway. Where do they get off saddling us with anything?

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 18, 2012 06:41 AM (evdj2)

43 .... Ive been very negligent on my sock management lately.

Posted by: fixerupper at December 18, 2012 06:41 AM (nELVU)

44 Who wants to live in an America without cowboy poetry?

Posted by: zsasz at December 18, 2012 06:41 AM (/McNP)

45 Based on what I'm seeing, "Plan B" is tax rate hikes now for promises of spending cuts some time in the future.

---

Ah. The Lucy-holding-the-football plan.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 18, 2012 06:42 AM (Hx5uv)

46 There are times i think everyone in DC are being blackmailed, or there is no real such thing as partisanship or two parties in d.c

Posted by: ETTE at December 18, 2012 06:42 AM (nqBYe)

47 Call me crazy, but I think Plan B was Plan A all along.

Posted by: Vizzini at December 18, 2012 06:43 AM (O7Q1u)

48 Someone needs to convince Boehner that he will not be Minority Leader after he fumbles away his majority.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 18, 2012 06:43 AM (evdj2)

49 They should pass Plan B and go home.

Posted by: Andy at December 18, 2012 06:43 AM (C/NnJ)

50 Mmmm hmmm... Spending? I reckon I ain't heard o that 'afore.

Posted by: Karles Chilbson at December 18, 2012 06:43 AM (q8Bss)

51
In terms of logistics, the House is tentatively planning to take up the "Plan B" proposal later this week, as early as Thursday. They would do it by amending a bill previously passed by the Senate that tracked more with Obama's original offer.

Then, the House would send the bill back to the Senate -- where it would likely sit as a potential last resort in case Obama and Boehner cannot strike a deal.

FoxNews

So give Obama 95% of what he wants on taxes now, but with no spending cuts. Then hope you can use the remaing 5% as leverage to get some reductions.

That's the plan, is it?

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 18, 2012 06:43 AM (kdS6q)

52 It doesn't matter if it's 250 or 400K. It will be an ideological win for liberals saying higher taxes solves fiscal problems, not spending cuts. And rest assured if it's 400K today, it will be 350K next year, then 300K and before long $50K will be defined as "rich".

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 18, 2012 06:43 AM (HDgX3)

53 Ah. The Lucy-holding-the-football plan. **** I'm getting the strangest sense of deja vu.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 18, 2012 06:44 AM (piMMO)

54 Remember when the Smart Practical Politicians told us last summer how the Superduper Committee deal on the debt limit and sequestration would put the Democrats in a box and subject them to public pressure? Remember how some of us said "WUT?" Misty water-colored memories.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows where thou concealest thy þr0n at December 18, 2012 06:44 AM (Lxw+T)

55 Ah. The Lucy-holding-the-football plan.

Yes. More or less.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 18, 2012 06:44 AM (/eBe8)

56 ~~Kabuki~~ Bukaki theater. We're the stars.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 18, 2012 06:45 AM (INNvP)

57 amazing ... I guess advocating for the killing of fellow americans is now ?? besides fkn crazy> what word would we use? Suicidal?

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 18, 2012 06:45 AM (GFM2b)

58 ack, i noticed i was wearing fat clothes

Posted by: ette at December 18, 2012 06:45 AM (nqBYe)

59 Google 'thai noodle house owner austin' to meet your asshat for the day.

Posted by: zsasz at December 18, 2012 06:45 AM (/McNP)

60 Someone needs to convince Boehner that he will not be Minority Leader after he fumbles away his majority. **** I've tweeted Chaffetz, Gowdy, Issa, and others to ask just who the hell they were listening to when they chose Boehner to speak for us, because they damned sure weren't listening to US.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 18, 2012 06:45 AM (piMMO)

Based on what I'm seeing, "Plan B" is tax rate hikes now for promises of spending cuts some time in the future.

Dude, the whole kabuki thing is about finding a way to avoid any cuts whatsoever, because they backed themselves in on sequestration.

Posted by: Entropy at December 18, 2012 06:46 AM (TULs6)

62 Plan B. When your budgeting for the fiscal year needs aborting. Plan B.

Posted by: Fritz at December 18, 2012 06:46 AM (/ZZCn)

63 56 Kabuki Bukaki theater. We're the stars. Two drink minimum won't be a problem.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows where thou concealest thy þr0n at December 18, 2012 06:46 AM (Lxw+T)

64 plan B, does that stand for Bend over?

Posted by: Killerdog at December 18, 2012 06:47 AM (1bNel)

65 Sequestration was all we got two years ago in the way of cuts for a $2.4 trillion debt limit increase. Now they want to toss that too, meaning we get exactly zero in reduced spending for the last debt hike.

Then we get more income taxes (which is baked into the cake of current law I agree), more OCare taxes, more estate taxes, more capital gain/interest/dividend taxes, and more new spending.

Wow, what a deal. Oh, and Boner is willing to throw another trillion dollars of debt into the deal as a cherry.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 18, 2012 06:47 AM (ccXZP)

66 They should just raise taxes on everyone. If people want big government, they should at least have to pay for it.

Posted by: Chris at December 18, 2012 06:47 AM (XGZYX)

67 put the Democrats in a box and subject them to public pressure? Remember how some of us said "WUT?"

I believe the actual quote was "LOL WUT?"

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 18, 2012 06:47 AM (/eBe8)

68 Bukakke theater? Do we at least get goggles?

Posted by: Vizzini at December 18, 2012 06:48 AM (O7Q1u)

69 I hear Boehner has asked NASA to work on Plan 9.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows where thou concealest thy þr0n at December 18, 2012 06:48 AM (Lxw+T)

70 (B)usted (B)roken (B)oned (B)ankrupt

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 18, 2012 06:48 AM (INNvP)

71 All of this weight is planned to be left on the GOP's shoulders. What fools.

Posted by: beach crash at December 18, 2012 06:48 AM (LpQbZ)

72 've tweeted Chaffetz, Gowdy, Issa, and others to ask just who the hell they were listening to when they chose Boehner to speak for us, because they damned sure weren't listening to US. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 18, 2012 10:45 AM (piMMO

They haven't voted yet for the new House. That will be in Jan.

Posted by: Vic at December 18, 2012 06:48 AM (53z96)

73 Well i just got back from a meeting with the sponsor of the Young Republicans club and I will likely lead it next year, so happy times for all :-)

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 06:48 AM (uFY4s)

74 Maybe I'm just tired but it's not clear to me what Plan B is. Run away? Run in circles? What? Posted by: joncelli at December 18, 2012 10:33 AM (RD7QR) Sh*tting whilst walking on one's hands.

Posted by: not to be crude, but... at December 18, 2012 06:49 AM (LpQbZ)

75 Do we at least get goggles?

We can't afford nice things anymore.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 18, 2012 06:49 AM (INNvP)

Posted by: ETTE at December 18, 2012 10:40 AM (nqBYe)

Liberals tend to be overly emotional, which makes them dangerous. I think this one needs more emails from me.

As for the fiscal cliff, I've predicted all along that there would be a deal in early January, and that it will be lousy and unsubstantial. Looks like we have general agreement here on that.

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 18, 2012 06:49 AM (1Y+hH)

77 Jan 1 top tax rates by country:

USA: 39.6%
Canada 29%

Payroll tax:
Social Security Tax: 12.4% of wages up to $110,000 max = $13,640
Canada: 4.95% up to $50,000 max = $2,475

To me it's incredible that Canada is now considered a low tax alternative to America.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 18, 2012 06:49 AM (HDgX3)

78 No spending cuts. The Burning Times draw nigh.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 18, 2012 06:49 AM (XfTMw)

79
73 Well i just got back from a meeting with the sponsor of the Young Republicans club and I will likely lead it next year, so happy times for all :-)

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 10:48 AM (uFY4s)

SMOD.

RIGHT. NOW.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 18, 2012 06:49 AM (da5Wo)

80 From twitter, Richard Engel has escaped Syria. http://t.co/XqjL9uLC

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 18, 2012 06:50 AM (piMMO)

81 It's all fun and games until somebody gets spunk eye.

Posted by: Fritz at December 18, 2012 06:50 AM (/ZZCn)

82 Honestly, Boehner is not an idiot, so who is holding a gun to his head telling him this is the way to go? Posted by: BurtTC at December 18, 2012 10:33 AM (TOk1P) There has got to be something in boner's closet, he seems to be driven by fear.

Posted by: beach fear at December 18, 2012 06:50 AM (LpQbZ)

83 Why can't we have a leader who can stand up and clearly articulate that lower taxes FOR EVERYONE and a small Federal government will grow the economy and lead to prosperity and opportunity FOR EVERYONE? By conceding that there must be a tax hike - even on the so-called wealthy - you are making a tacit admission to the myth that conservatism is what destroyed the economy. Here's a real Plan B: 1 - Corporate tax rate cut by 50%. 2 - Tax rates on top income earners to stay the same 3 - Tax cuts for the 2 middle income brackets by whatever percentage. 4 - Debt ceiling stays in place. 5 - No more baseline budgeting. The budget gets zeroed out at the end of every fiscal year. I would add repeal Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, Sarbanes-Oxley and dissolve the EPA, both D's of E, OSHA but that might not be realistic. That's it. Sign the bill pass it off to the Senate and go home. But no.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 18, 2012 06:51 AM (XkWWK)

84 Ok, Drudge has a story that "undocumented Americans" is on the short list for Time's Person of the Year.

The stupidity in the term "undocumented Americans" all by itself is enough to cause a Scanners moment.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 18, 2012 06:51 AM (da5Wo)

85 79
73
Well i just got back from a meeting with the sponsor of the Young
Republicans club and I will likely lead it next year, so happy times for
all :-)

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 10:48 AM (uFY4s)

SMOD.

RIGHT. NOW.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 18, 2012 10:49 AM (da5Wo)

awwwhhh your cute when your terrified. ;-)

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 06:51 AM (uFY4s)

86 They haven't voted yet for the new House. That will be in Jan. **** He is who they have put forward. Nobody else is stepping up.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 18, 2012 06:51 AM (piMMO)

87 Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 18, 2012 10:37 AM (1Y+hH) He apologized. And then continued digging.

Posted by: RWC at December 18, 2012 06:52 AM (fWAjv)

88 77 Jan 1 top tax rates by country:

USA: 39.6%
Canada 29%

Payroll tax:
Social Security Tax: 12.4% of wages up to $110,000 max = $13,640
Canada: 4.95% up to $50,000 max = $2,475

To me it's incredible that Canada is now considered a low tax alternative to America.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 18, 2012 10:49 AM (HDgX3)

It is rather incredible isn't it.

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 06:52 AM (uFY4s)

89 To me it's incredible that Canada is now considered a low tax alternative to America.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 18, 2012 10:49 AM (HDgX3)

The average Canadian is more wealthy than the average American for the first time in history. That gap will widen.

Hope and change still abounds.

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 18, 2012 06:52 AM (1Y+hH)

90 I should know this but I don't, but hasn't the House sent up multiple budget proposals to the Senate that Reid won't even allow to go to hearings? So, yeah, the House could vote for whatever it wants and it doesn't mean shit. Also re: discussion in prior thread of my benevolent(ish) dictatorship. I deeply approve of these attempts to be allowed to sleep inside. You may continue. Stupid having to work at work. Though I do have cookies! Both Mommy made and ones Mommy helped me make. Because Mommy is awesome.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Tick tock tick tock. at December 18, 2012 06:52 AM (VtjlW)

91 By conceding that there must be a tax hike - even on the so-called wealthy - you are making a tacit admission to the myth that conservatism is what destroyed the economy.

It's also asserting that wealth belongs to the Government. Which is even more morally/philosophically dangerous.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 18, 2012 06:53 AM (/eBe8)

92 Apparently Obama offered Boehner an ice pack and an 8x10 glossy of Juanita Broaddrick.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows where thou concealest thy þr0n at December 18, 2012 06:53 AM (Lxw+T)

93 91: absolutely true, you should make a blog

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 06:53 AM (uFY4s)

94 Not sure if any of this matters, the details won't if Euroland implodes; just Dims and Pubs playing musical chairs to avoid the blame when it happens. Not even sure that matters, because the best we can hope to get the media to report is that both sides are to blame.

Posted by: Jean at December 18, 2012 06:54 AM (aqj6v)

83 -

The answer to your question, I believe, is in the misuse of the word "we."

WE don't have a leader. There is a leader of the House Republicans, but he's THEIR leader, not ours.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 18, 2012 06:54 AM (TOk1P)

96 I wonder when Canada will make more money on average than Australia

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 06:54 AM (uFY4s)

97 Call me crazy, but I think Plan B was Plan A all along.

Up here in Congress
Things are crazy
Here's budget plan B
Vote for it maybe?

Posted by: Blanco Basura at December 18, 2012 06:55 AM (4WhSY)

98 Vic, JB did capitulate to an extent but I will have to agree with Gab that this is both a pressuring tactic and to show they are willing, ready and able to raise taxes.Will it work, I don't know. I think it is all illusions. Not one person in congress or the white house can tell the truth. They are all lying. So, once you get past that ...

Posted by: beach fear at December 18, 2012 06:55 AM (LpQbZ)

99 97: now why would i call you crazy

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 06:55 AM (uFY4s)

100 91 It's also asserting that wealth belongs to the Government. Which is even more morally/philosophically dangerous. Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 18, 2012 10:53 AM (/eBe

Exactly. That's why whenever I hear some lefty say "we can't afford a tax cut" I want to punch something. I give them credit; they brainwashed enough people over the past 50 years to make their idiocy seem like brilliance. Fuck.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 18, 2012 06:55 AM (XkWWK)

101 98: now how do you suggest getting past that

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 06:56 AM (uFY4s)

102 94 Not sure if any of this matters, the details won't if Euroland implodes; just Dims and Pubs playing musical chairs to avoid the blame when it happens. Not even sure that matters, because the best we can hope to get the media to report is that both sides are to blame.

Posted by: Jean at December 18, 2012 10:54 AM (aqj6v)

Is that a danger (Euroland imploding)? That story disappeared from the radar for a while.

Posted by: joncelli at December 18, 2012 06:56 AM (RD7QR)

103 101: LIB

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 06:56 AM (uFY4s)

104 Plan B. Abortion. Sounds about right for the SCOAMF bill.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 18, 2012 06:56 AM (XkWWK)

105 102: they don't want the economy to implode by telling the truth

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 06:57 AM (uFY4s)

106 Where are the electability fucktatds to tell us all what a great deal we got in August 2011, how it guaranteed pur electoral victory? REPLACE BOEHNER!

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 18, 2012 06:57 AM (/g5vp)

107 I give them credit; they brainwashed enough people over the past 50 years to make their idiocy seem like brilliance.

One of the things I didn't realize until recently, and wasn't capable of realizing at the time: my Government Required and Approved Economics class in high school never once defined the term "Money."

Interesting oversight, huh?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 18, 2012 06:57 AM (/eBe8)

108 104: plan B, when ignoring that lump of cells just isn't good enough anymore

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 06:57 AM (uFY4s)

109 Am I the only one who thinks Boner is getting played hard? I don't think TFG wants anything other than to go over the "Fiscal Cliff."

Boner will offer to give away the farm and when that fails the GOP will still take the blame like a bunch of simps.

What a disaster.

Posted by: runninrebel at December 18, 2012 06:57 AM (J4gw3)

110 107: i plan on taking a macroeconimcs class based on the works of paul krugman purely for the argumentative factors involved

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 06:58 AM (uFY4s)

111

102 -

I think the Euro leaders stopped talking, and the people all over the continent are more content to talk about crazy American gun laws than they are the economic disaster that is looming.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 18, 2012 06:58 AM (TOk1P)

112 109: so the usual shit then

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 06:59 AM (uFY4s)

113

Take the Fiscal Cliff

If they want Euro Spending

Pay Euro Taxes

The "Middle Class" voted for irresponsible spending when they re-elected Obama. Why are we protecting them from the consequences of their folly? Let them pay the taxes to support at least some of the spending they demand. As long as we constantly shift the costs to others, they will never stop demanding more.

Posted by: Haiku Guy at December 18, 2012 06:59 AM (vdbff)

114 Given the election result and the latest WaPo/ABC poll showing people want a deal but no spending cuts, the best we can hope for is a stick and a marshmallow.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows where thou concealest thy þr0n at December 18, 2012 06:59 AM (Lxw+T)

115 110, should be an easy A

Posted by: Jean at December 18, 2012 06:59 AM (aqj6v)

116 111 102 -

I think the Euro leaders stopped talking, and the people all over the continent are more content to talk about crazy American gun laws than they are the economic disaster that is looming.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 18, 2012 10:58 AM (TOk1P)

Britain has crazy gun control laws, the others simply don't have enough freedom. Bu your right, they are far more willing to talk about those "CRAZY AMERICAN BUMPKINS" then they are willing to talk about there own problems

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 07:00 AM (uFY4s)

117 The "Middle Class" voted for irresponsible spending when they re-elected Obama. Why are we protecting them from the consequences of their folly? Because I don't want to burn. This isn't an academic exercise.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 18, 2012 07:00 AM (/g5vp)

118

I'd be up for defunding the Federal police agencies and moving all that money to entitlement spending. It's for the children.

Posted by: Invictus at December 18, 2012 07:00 AM (OQpzc)

119 115 110, should be an easy A

Posted by: Jean at December 18, 2012 10:59 AM (aqj6v)

Its an AP class so easy 5.0 A

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 07:00 AM (uFY4s)

120 Given the election result and the latest WaPo/ABC poll showing people want a deal but no spending cuts, the best we can hope for is a stick and a marshmallow. So the stick will stay stuck when they shove it up our asses?

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 18, 2012 07:00 AM (GFM2b)

121 Hey anyone want to buy my building here in NJ so I can go on to my Plan B

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 18, 2012 07:01 AM (79ueO)

122 120 Given the election result and the latest WaPo/ABC poll showing people want a deal but no spending cuts, the best we can hope for is a stick and a marshmallow.

So the stick will stay stuck when they shove it up our asses?

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 18, 2012 11:00 AM (GFM2b)

That and the stick will be full of thorns

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 07:01 AM (uFY4s)

123 121 Hey anyone want to buy my building here in NJ so I can go on to my Plan B

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 18, 2012 11:01 AM (79ueO)

Buying property in New Jersey is a terrible idea

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 07:02 AM (uFY4s)

124 So, this would be the reverse extended modified hang out option?

Posted by: Queequeg the Harpooner at December 18, 2012 07:02 AM (3xuEM)

125 I think I have OPCD.

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 07:02 AM (uFY4s)

126 124 So, this would be the reverse extended modified hang out option?

Posted by: Queequeg the Harpooner at December 18, 2012 11:02 AM (3xuEM)

Kinky

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 07:02 AM (uFY4s)

127 Brave Sir Robin...

Posted by: Haiku Guy at December 18, 2012 07:02 AM (vdbff)

128 Ok, Drudge has a story that "undocumented Americans" is on the short list for Time's Person of the Year.

It'll be Obama. The only times the Person of the Year was not a Democrat winning the presidency was 1996 and 1960 (Kennedy got it in 1961).

The war years threw this off, but FDR got it in 1932 and twice thereafter, just not in election years.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 18, 2012 07:02 AM (xSegX)

129 What's Plan C? A lobotomy with an ice pick?

Posted by: Fritz at December 18, 2012 07:03 AM (/ZZCn)

130 The school computer doesn't roam but my kindle does, why is that?

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 07:03 AM (uFY4s)

131 129 What's Plan C? A lobotomy with an ice pick?

Posted by: Fritz at December 18, 2012 11:03 AM (/ZZCn)

Used Shiv

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 07:03 AM (uFY4s)

132
Republican rank-and-file emerging from a closed-door meeting where House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) outlined his Â“Plan BÂ” for averting the Â“fiscal cliff,Â” said the speaker received a respectful hearing for the idea.

Â“There wasnÂ’t applause. There wasnÂ’t outrage,Â” said Rep. Sean Duffy (R-Wisc.). Â“WeÂ’re having a frank conversation about where we sit, the realities of our negotiatingÂ” position".

See also: resignation, capitulation, conceding, giving up, submission, surrender

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 18, 2012 07:04 AM (kdS6q)

133 128 Ok, Drudge has a story that "undocumented Americans" is on the short list for Time's Person of the Year.

It'll be Obama. The only times the Person of the Year was not a Democrat winning the presidency was 1996 and 1960 (Kennedy got it in 1961).

The war years threw this off, but FDR got it in 1932 and twice thereafter, just not in election years.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 18, 2012 11:02 AM (xSegX)

Your right but undocumented americans would further there god damn goal

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 07:04 AM (uFY4s)

134 MOSCOW (AP) -- A Russian navy squadron has set off for the Mediterranean amid official talk about a possible evacuation of Russians from Syria. The Defense Ministry said Tuesday that the ships will rotate with those that have been in the area since November. Russian diplomats said last week that Moscow is preparing plans to evacuate thousands of Russians from Syria if necessary. The ministry did not say whether the navy ships are intended for an evacuation. When the Ruskies bug out, watch out, the shit is really about to hit the fan

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 18, 2012 07:04 AM (79ueO)

135 Britain has crazy gun control laws, the others simply don't have enough freedom. Bu your right, they are far more willing to talk about those "CRAZY AMERICAN BUMPKINS" then they are willing to talk about there own problems
Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 11:00 AM

Europeans repeat what their tightly controlled media tells them. As far as talking about anything else, they don't have much to talk about. They may be "content" but they're dull as hell in a conversation.

Unless you mention the word "Jew", then they start foaming at the mouth

Posted by: kbdabear at December 18, 2012 07:04 AM (wwsoB)

136 That and the stick will be full of thorns and on fire.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 18, 2012 07:05 AM (evdj2)

137 I am done fighting for these bozos. I'm predicting a strange new respect for the Bush tax cuts. Posted by: xuyee at December 18, 2012 10:40 AM (/QiO2) I am done fighting for these ~~bozos~~ boozers.

Posted by: beach & a strawberry daiquiri at December 18, 2012 07:05 AM (LpQbZ)

138 132
Republican rank-and-file emerging from a closed-door meeting where House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) outlined his Â“Plan BÂ” for averting the Â“fiscal cliff,Â” said the speaker received a respectful hearing for the idea.

Â“There wasnÂ’t applause. There wasnÂ’t outrage,Â” said Rep. Sean Duffy (R-Wisc.). Â“WeÂ’re having a frank conversation about where we sit, the realities of our negotiatingÂ” position".

See also: resignation, capitulation, conceding, giving up, submission, surrender

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 18, 2012 11:04 AM (kdS6q)

see also bending over, The sub, bottom, and masochist

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 07:05 AM (uFY4s)

139 It'll be Obama. The only times the Person of the Year was not a Democrat winning the presidency was 1996 and 1960 (Kennedy got it in 1961). The war years threw this off, but FDR got it in 1932 and twice thereafter, just not in election years. Posted by: AmishDude at December 18, 2012 11:02 AM (xSegX) Your right but undocumented americans would further there god damn goal Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 11:04 AM (uFY4s) Well if they name obama the person of the year, they get a 2 for. A dem and an undocumented person

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 18, 2012 07:05 AM (79ueO)

140 has Obama given in to anything the Rs want.. ? Boehner sure is a shitty salesman.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at December 18, 2012 07:05 AM (DGIjM)

141 In all seriousness, why would Obama give in on anything? He has the Media in his corner, and with that power he can convince the Great Unwashed that he is awesome and his proposals will lead to wonderful things, and the Republicans are evil people who want to shoot children. And just like November 2012, the Great Unwashed will elevated him that much closer to godhood.

Obama is invincible. He won reelection in the worst economy in my memory, an economy he was almost entirely responsible for. He now truly believes himself to be above all criticism. Why would he give in on anything?

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at December 18, 2012 07:06 AM (DuH+r)

142 Ok, Drudge has a story that "undocumented Americans" is on the short list for Time's Person of the Year. It'll be Obama. So, same thing then.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 18, 2012 07:06 AM (evdj2)

143 137

I am done fighting for these bozos. I'm predicting a strange new respect for the Bush tax cuts.
Posted by: xuyee at December 18, 2012 10:40 AM (/QiO2)

I am done fighting for these bozos boozers.

Posted by: beach & a strawberry daiquiri at December 18, 2012 11:05 AM (LpQbZ)

I am done fighting for these bozos boozers bastards.

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 07:06 AM (uFY4s)

144 Only 35M or so in Canada. I say we hijack a fresh country.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 18, 2012 07:06 AM (INNvP)

145 Althouse: "What is the gun community going to do about this tragedy?" "I dunno. What is the gay community going to do about Penn State?Â”

Posted by: DAve at December 18, 2012 07:07 AM (XDC0v)

146 I am done fighting for these brain-dead bozos boozers bastards.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 18, 2012 07:07 AM (evdj2)

147 Obama is invincible. He won reelection in the worst economy in my memory, an economy he was almost entirely responsible for. He now truly believes himself to be above all criticism. Why would he give in on anything?

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at December 18, 2012 11:06 AM (DuH+r)

Yup. He truly thinks he's the second coming of FDR and FDR didn't compromise.

Posted by: joncelli at December 18, 2012 07:07 AM (RD7QR)

148 Boner couldn't sell refrigorators in brazil

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 07:07 AM (uFY4s)

149 11 Obviously Boehner is being pressured from somewhere, and I can't figure out who it is doing the pressing.

The pressure is coming from the Media, the only thing that matters to most elected Republicans.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at December 18, 2012 07:07 AM (DuH+r)

150 144 Only 35M or so in Canada. I say we hijack a fresh country.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 18, 2012 11:06 AM (INNvP)

I wouldn't call Canada Fresh but okay

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 07:08 AM (uFY4s)

151 144 Only 35M or so in Canada. I say we hijack a fresh country.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 18, 2012 11:06 AM (INNvP)

Too friggin' cold. Let's grab Cuba and set up a banana republic.

Posted by: joncelli at December 18, 2012 07:08 AM (RD7QR)

152 Time Ragazine's Person of the Year;

The Disappearing Subscriber

Posted by: kbdabear at December 18, 2012 07:08 AM (wwsoB)

153 145 Althouse: "What
is the gun community going to do about this tragedy?"

"I dunno. What is the gay
community going to do about Penn State?Â”

Posted by: DAve at December 18, 2012 11:07 AM (XDC0v)

Good comeback, and a legitamite one at that, since the gay communes have a lot more pedophiles than they are willing to admit

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 07:09 AM (uFY4s)

154 Next year TFG will be blaming the shitty economy on the middle class tax increases that the GOP forced on the country and he'll become the champion tax cutter. The new legislation will include tax increases on the upper brackets and the split of payers vs takers will increase.

I can see why DeMint resigned. It's best to focus our energy in other places than DC. It's lost.

Posted by: runninrebel at December 18, 2012 07:10 AM (J4gw3)

155 151 144
Only 35M or so in Canada. I say we hijack a fresh country.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 18, 2012 11:06 AM (INNvP)

Too friggin' cold. Let's grab Cuba and set up a banana republic.

Posted by: joncelli at December 18, 2012 11:08 AM (RD7QR)

But COOba has no natural resources, other than sunshine, tobacco, beaches, babes..... Okay lets go to Cuba

Posted by: Alex at December 18, 2012 07:10 AM (uFY4s)

156 That's it. Sign the bill pass it off to the Senate and go home.

But no.

That results in sequestration cuts to the military and tax hikes on everyone. That's what you're arguing for.

Please explain why you want massive cuts to the military and a massive tax hike on everyone, RINO.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 18, 2012 07:10 AM (SY2Kh)

157 Please explain why you want massive cuts to the military and a massive tax hike on everyone, RINO. Because any other deal we get will be worse. Much worse.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 18, 2012 07:11 AM (evdj2)

158 "69. I hear Boehner has asked NASA to work on Plan 9." The Speaker's exact words were, "Your stupid minds! Stupid! STUPID!"

Posted by: GalosGann at December 18, 2012 07:12 AM (T3KlW)

159 Plan A - Obama screws us and Boner sells us out

Plan B - Obama screws us and Boner sells us out

Plan C - Obama screws us and Boner sells us out

Plan inf - Obama screws us and Boner sells us out

And who in the world gives any damn credence to a WaPo/ABC poll? All polls are shit but MFM polls are the worst of the worst.

Posted by: Vic at December 18, 2012 07:12 AM (53z96)

160 So is plan B rape, rape?

Posted by: Whoopi Goldberg at December 18, 2012 07:12 AM (cqZXM)

161

Bullshit.

Having a "Plan B' implies they had a "Plan A".

Those clowns don't have a plan.

Posted by: Cluebat from Exodar at December 18, 2012 07:12 AM (cqZXM)

162
I don't want taxes to go up for anyone, hell, I don't even know why there are federal taxes at this point when they just go into deficit spending anyway .... but it actually hurts the conservative cause to raise it from 250K to 1MM. Because the blue state bastards that voted for these idiots don't feel the pain.

So that will likely be what happens. Plus an actual increase in spending, despite what they will claim will be cuts.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 18, 2012 07:13 AM (n/ubI)

163 Because any other deal we get will be worse. Much worse.

Worse than an across the board 10% tax increase along with a massive tax increase on capital gains? What being proposed is "much worse" than that?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 18, 2012 07:13 AM (SY2Kh)

164 I also checked gun laws in Canada....not nearly as bad as I thought. You can own guns. You just have to jump through a few hoops to get them. Won't be any worse than what Obama will create here.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 18, 2012 07:14 AM (HDgX3)

165 "Plan B"? I didn't know Boehner could get pregnant that way.

Posted by: Agnes Day at December 18, 2012 07:14 AM (scOyJ)

166 We are screwed... 11-6 was Americas last chance. Fuck em.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at December 18, 2012 07:15 AM (DGIjM)

167 Is there Internet in Yellow Knife?

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 18, 2012 07:15 AM (INNvP)

168 And TFG has already said he doesn't even need a deal to "save" the middle class from these GOP tax increases. He'll just instruct his henchmen in the IRS to not collect the taxes on the middle brackets.

Boner needs to go. But I guess if he did go that would be a sign that the GOP wasn't a broken party. So I expect him to be Speaker for a long time.

Posted by: runninrebel at December 18, 2012 07:16 AM (J4gw3)

169 Oh, the national debt is frightful, Unemployment's -- also frightful. But since we've no where to turn, Let it burn, let it burn, let it burn! There're no signs of real cuts to spending, So the deficits aren't ending. They gobble up what we earn. Let it burn, let it burn, let it burn! When they finally pass a bill, How I'll hate all the ground that they gave. That's just how things work on the Hill. Nothing of value can be saved. Oh, the country is slowly dying, while for points they still are vying. The parties have had their turn, Let it burn, let it burn, let it burn!

Posted by: Original Roy at December 18, 2012 07:17 AM (wTawr)

170 And who in the world gives any damn credence to a WaPo/ABC poll? All polls are shit but MFM polls are the worst of the worst.

So it's your belief that despite what the polls suggest, the public who just re-elected Obama really wants major spending increases with no tax hikes on anybody?

Or are you posting from some alternate universe in which Obama lost?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 18, 2012 07:17 AM (SY2Kh)

171 Ok, Drudge has a story that "undocumented Americans" is on the short list for Time's Person of the Year. It'll be Obama. The only times the Person of the Year was not a Democrat winning the presidency was 1996 and 1960 (Kennedy got it in 1961). The war years threw this off, but FDR got it in 1932 and twice thereafter, just not in election years. Posted by: AmishDude at December 18, 2012 11:02 AM (xSegX) I guarantee you, after the Newtown massacre, they are strongly rethinking how they can tie Person of the Year to gun control.

Posted by: beach & a strawberry daiquiri at December 18, 2012 07:17 AM (LpQbZ)

172 Worse than an across the board 10% tax increase along with a massive tax increase on capital gains? What being proposed is "much worse" than that? Tax increases and no spending cuts at all.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 18, 2012 07:17 AM (evdj2)

173 Please explain why you want massive cuts to the military and a massive tax hike on everyone, RINO.

Because it's the ONLY plan on the table that involves cuts at all. Remember it also includes cuts to Medicare and (I think) Social Security.

If there is any hope of putting out the fire that's already burning, it's by reducing spending. Yes, I'll accept painful and poorly directed military cuts. See, once the cuts are in place, there's at least some possibility that we can maintain some cuts (even if we redistribute them). Without the cuts, spending will never be cut. Never. At this point, I doubt we'll even get the fake congressional "Cut" which actually just means spending doesn't grow quite as fast.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 18, 2012 07:18 AM (/eBe8)

174 new one

Posted by: Vic at December 18, 2012 07:18 AM (53z96)

175 So it's your belief that despite what the polls suggest, the public who just re-elected Obama really wants major spending increases with no tax hikes on anybody?

Dammit- should read:

So it's your belief that despite what the polls suggest, the public who just re-elected Obama really wants major spending cuts with no tax hikes on anybody?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 18, 2012 07:18 AM (SY2Kh)

176 I am not going to start pissing and moaning about the bad deal we are gonna get until I see the bad deal we are gonna get. Then I will piss and moan.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 18, 2012 07:19 AM (79ueO)

177

B stands for BOHICA.

Can you say that word, boys and girls? I knew you could.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at December 18, 2012 07:19 AM (yiIja)

178 If we phased out the Earned Income Tax Credit over 4 years, would that be a tax increase or a spending cut?

Posted by: Agnes Day at December 18, 2012 07:19 AM (scOyJ)

179 America is being broken up into groups of people who must pay more taxes and groups who can draw money from the government. They are building a Euro style caste system and all Fucktard the Speaker cares about is winning the next election. He must go. The GOP must learn to fucking fight or we kist have a new party. We will not win by surrendering.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 18, 2012 07:19 AM (5TFvk)

180 It would have been better to not have any tax cuts than to have them sunset like this.

Never again.

Posted by: runninrebel at December 18, 2012 07:20 AM (J4gw3)

181 Flashback: CAIR Praises ObamaÂ’s Reported Defense Secretary Pick Chuck Hagel For Taking HezbollahÂ’s Side In War With IsraelÂ… Hagel would be an unmitigated disaster as secretary of defense. Yes, and that should fit in nicely with the rest of the obama administration

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 18, 2012 07:21 AM (79ueO)

182 How about a Plan C, as in CSPAN cameras in all the negotiations. I'm sick of being left in the dark. They are doing 'The People's Business' so lets see it. The World's most deliberative body is nothing but a clubhouse now that everything is done in back rooms. Tell Reid there will be NO DEAL until they pass a fucking budget. Until then, let it all BURN. Sequestration, tax hikes, the whole ball of wax.

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at December 18, 2012 07:21 AM (UU0OF)

183 Or are you posting from some alternate universe in which Obama lost? And we won control of the house. So why are we acting like we didn't?

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 18, 2012 07:21 AM (5TFvk)

184 77 Jan 1 top tax rates by country:

USA: 39.6%
Canada 29%

Payroll tax:
Social Security Tax: 12.4% of wages up to $110,000 max = $13,640
Canada: 4.95% up to $50,000 max = $2,475

To me it's incredible that Canada is now considered a low tax alternative to America.

Don't forget the 20% sales/vat

Posted by: pashmr at December 18, 2012 07:22 AM (3aNC4)

185 http://www.city-data.com/canada/Yellowknife-City.html

Not bad. Roads, airport...a lake named "Keg Lake".

KEG. LAKE.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 18, 2012 07:23 AM (INNvP)

186 Don't forget the 20% sales/vat

We'll get one soon enough.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 18, 2012 07:24 AM (/kI1Q)

187 And we won control of the house.

That's just cosmetic in the post-Constitutional era.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 18, 2012 07:25 AM (INNvP)

188 129 What's Plan C? A lobotomy with an ice pick? I like you.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows where thou concealest thy þr0n at December 18, 2012 07:25 AM (Lxw+T)

189

How is this plab B better than Let It Burn?

Posted by: Draki at December 18, 2012 07:25 AM (L8r/r)

190 The sequestration cuts would not be addressed in the Plan B bill. Rocket science. In Congress.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows where thou concealest thy þr0n at December 18, 2012 07:26 AM (Lxw+T)

191 Althouse: "What is the gun community going to do about this tragedy?" "I dunno. What is the gay community going to do about Penn State? Read the comments. And the twats will waddle.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 18, 2012 07:27 AM (GFM2b)

192 Because it's the ONLY plan on the table that involves cuts at all. Remember it also includes cuts to Medicare and (I think) Social Security.

Nope. Entitlements aren't touched. All we'd get in exchange for the massive tax hikes are $100 billion in discretionary cuts.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 18, 2012 07:27 AM (SY2Kh)

193 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 18, 2012 07:28 AM (INNvP)

194 Bush let the Democrats hold the military and war spending hostage to their big spending. It didn't work out well in the long run. Just.Do.Nothing.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 18, 2012 07:28 AM (evdj2)

195 TFG and the Dems are only negotiating in order to take the issue of tax cuts away from the GOP. They don't plan on funding their utopia with tax revenue. They're simply going to do QE Infinity until all of our wealth has been drained.

For the Boner and the GOP to think anything else is happening is absurd.

Boner will negotiate and negotiate until TFG no longer needs to put on the show then he'll steal the issue away.

Posted by: runninrebel at December 18, 2012 07:28 AM (J4gw3)

196 And we won control of the house.

So why are we acting like we didn't?

We held control of the House after losing 8 seats in the House in addition to losing 2 more in the Senate.

The GOP holds the weak hand. So why are we acting like they can magically get their way if only they wished hard enough for it?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 18, 2012 07:31 AM (SY2Kh)

197 >>>>>So why are we acting like they can magically get their way if only they wished hard enough for it?

Why are we acting like the Dems prefer a deal?

Posted by: runninrebel at December 18, 2012 07:32 AM (J4gw3)

198

LiFB is a nice idea .... but,

LarryArnn, Hillsdale College President:

Â—the reason you canÂ’t retreat into private life and give up on politicsÂ—is that the cost of doing it is overwhelming. If you donÂ’t live under good laws, life becomes truncated and less happy, injustice becomes customary, civilization is compromised. And one cannot acquiesce in that. One has to be involved. And since politics is natural to usÂ—man is essentially political, as Aristotle saysÂ—and since we do live in the greatest modern countryÂ—founded that way at leastÂ—we owe it a lot. And many of the people who have seen the republic through to where we are today have gone through things that are worse than this. So first of all, itÂ’s a duty not to give up. But second, there are good reasons to know that the game isnÂ’t over.

Read the whole article over at their imprimus site.

Posted by: Sophistahick at December 18, 2012 07:32 AM (UhXzR)

199 One reason not to give up is that we do still have the House, even it is with the wimpy boner.

Posted by: Sophistahick at December 18, 2012 07:35 AM (UhXzR)

200

If you donÂ’t live under good laws, life becomes truncated and less happy, injustice becomes customary, civilization is compromised.

Um... decades too late?

Posted by: Entropy at December 18, 2012 07:35 AM (TULs6)

201 It would have been better to not have any tax cuts than to have them sunset like this.

Never again.

Posted by: runninrebel at December 18, 2012 11:20 AM (J4gw3)

Those tax rates sunseted because they were done under reconciliation and the CBO scored them as a budget deficit cause. That even though they resulted in increased revenues. Don't ever let anyone tell you that the CBO is neutral.

But along those same lines, the "Fix" for Obamacare was also done under reconciliation. Obamacare itself has been judged to be a deficit maker. Whether the "fix" is or not is another question.

Posted by: Vic at December 18, 2012 07:36 AM (53z96)

202 >>>>ivilization is compromised.

Posted by: runninrebel at December 18, 2012 07:37 AM (J4gw3)

203 Oh no, not another kick.

Posted by: The Can at December 18, 2012 07:41 AM (/Mla1)

204 LiFB is a nice idea .... but LiFB is not going Galt or retreating to some compound. It's stopping trying to knock off the unworkable parts of the Democrats' insane policies just to stretch out the collapse while still getting all the blame when it happens. Quit being the tax collectors for the Welfare State.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 18, 2012 07:42 AM (QupBk)

205 The GOP holds the weak hand. So why are we acting like they can magically get their way if only they wished hard enough for it? We could try to make our case or something. Maybe act like an opposition party? We must argue for policies that avert ruin, because our goal should be to avert ruin. Instead we are getting the same eoght dimensional chess which was supposed to win us the 2012 election. If the GOP just roll over, what's the point of having a goddamn GOP? So they can sell out a few taxpayers for ephemeral cuts and we'll still have increased misery? And when they still get killed in 2014, what then?

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 18, 2012 07:43 AM (ZZPs4)

206 LarryArnn, Hillsdale College President:

To the country I owe much, to this regime, I owe nothing. The two are NOT the same thing.

Posted by: Winston Smith at December 18, 2012 07:46 AM (INNvP)

207 Did you say 'budget'? How novel.

Posted by: Mekan at December 18, 2012 07:57 AM (hm8tW)

208 Why are we acting like the Dems prefer a deal?

They're acting like the Dems can be negotiated with because as elected officials answerable to (dumb) voters, they have to.

There is no path to a GOP victory in this fight. All they can do is manage the scale of loss.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 18, 2012 07:57 AM (SY2Kh)

209 Don't forget the 20% sales/vat

Posted by: pashmr at December 18, 2012 11:22 AM (3aNC4)

_____________

There is no VAT in Canada. There is a national sales tax and provincial sales tax. Combined that ranges from a low of 5% to a high of 13% depending on the province. No different really that sales tax in most states. In WA, where I live sales tax is 9%.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 18, 2012 07:57 AM (HDgX3)

210 If rates were raised on $1 million+ of wages, bonuses and the value of stock options, would it not hit only the super-rich corporate types who are among the let-them-eat-cake class and the biggest Obama bundlers, while sparing the small business owner? Just wondering.

Posted by: Agnes Day at December 18, 2012 07:58 AM (scOyJ)

211 " A cutoff of 400k or greater is likely to fall more on areas with higher cost of living (AKA blue cities)."

I remember a woman from Manhattan calling in to Rush Limbaugh saying people don't understand how hard it is to make ends meet on $750,000/year.

Posted by: Agnes Day at December 18, 2012 08:01 AM (scOyJ)

212

Burn baby burn.

Posted by: AdamPM at December 18, 2012 08:02 AM (x61Z7)

213 In 2004 Dems lost the house, senate and presidency. And yet they acted like the won and drove the agenda. Bush didn't get anything he wanted in his second term even with a GOP house/senate because the Dems fought him at every turn. Republicans just don't have the will to fight. Never did.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 18, 2012 08:02 AM (HDgX3)

214 'Based on what I'm seeing, "Plan B" is tax rate hikes now for promises of spending cuts some time in the future.'

"I'd gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today!" -- Wimpy

Posted by: Agnes Day at December 18, 2012 08:03 AM (scOyJ)

215 Not this shit again.

"I'd gladly pay you never for a tax hike today." -Obama

Posted by: Tonic Dog at December 18, 2012 08:09 AM (X/+QT)

216 BTW, is the vote for Speaker of the House a secret ballot? If not, anyone who votes against Boehner gets screwed if Boehner wins anyway.

Posted by: Agnes Day at December 18, 2012 08:09 AM (scOyJ)

217 Is there no one in the Party of Stupid with the balls to stand up to Obama and the MSM?

We have the power of the purse, and of the debt ceiling, and of 47% of the country. Use it.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at December 18, 2012 08:10 AM (X/+QT)

218 I remember a woman from Manhattan calling in to Rush Limbaugh saying people don't understand how hard it is to make ends meet on $750,000/year.

Posted by: Agnes Day at December 18, 2012 12:01 PM (scOyJ)

___________________________

750 is a bit ridiculous. But 250K in Manhattan is truly not a lot of money. Unless you've spent time in the city you cannot understand how insanely expensive everything is. And if you have kids you're spending $20K/year per kid minimum for private school. If you have a car $700/month (if you're lucky) for a parking spot. A 3 bedroom apartment in a part of town you won't get killed is $3500/month (again if you're lucky).

You have insanely high NY state income tax and a NYC city income tax.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 18, 2012 08:10 AM (HDgX3)

219 "They should just raise taxes on everyone. If people want big government, they should at least have to pay for it."

The ones not paying for big government are the 47% who are just receivers. Justice would be to make them pay, but they probably can't. Anyway, there isn't much income there.

Still, I'd like to see the EITC phased out; the child deduction limited to two children or dependents (total); mortgage interest deduction limited to one principle residence only (if it isn't already); no government assistance for immigrants here less than, say, 5 years, and none ever for illegal aliens; means testing for Social Security and Medicare; and so on. Lots of common sense reforms come to mind as possibilities to consider if the Congress wasn't totally corrupt and devoted to their own personal interests.

Posted by: Agnes Day at December 18, 2012 08:21 AM (scOyJ)

220 I actually think "Plan B" is an effective strategy.
If Republicans can pass it in the House, I think the onus is really put on Obama if we actually go over the fiscal cliff.

I'm against all tax increases, even those at the top, but if you can preserve 99.9% of Americans under the Bush tax cuts, that's a pretty good deal considering we have a socialist in the White House and lopsided Democrat Senate.

And if Obama says no? We go over the fiscal cliff and House Republicans say "we passed a tax bill that only preserved tax rates for those making under $1 million a year."

Posted by: McAdams at December 18, 2012 08:24 AM (Y4JSb)

221

Dang it, I was hoping plan B was get a new speaker.

Posted by: Major Noogles at December 18, 2012 08:39 AM (8XDXc)

222 I don't think raising taxes on even those making over 250k is a big deal. We have many, many civil servants in California making above that. They can start paying their fair share.

Posted by: Sexypig at December 18, 2012 08:41 AM (dZQh7)

223 "There is no path to a GOP victory in this fight. All they can do is manage the scale of loss." No. The GOP has already lost, totally and completely. There's no managing to be done. No party victory to be salvaged. They have no excuses left to avoid doing something fiscally sane. But they'll still lose, though, in a political sense. That must be understood. And, if nothing else, real spending cuts are a victory in my reckoning, even if they're done via the clumsy method of sequestration. Even if they come out of the military's pocket. Sorry, but the armed forces are just as broke and almost as wasteful as the rest of the government. Maybe the GOP should've fixed that at some point, rather than obsessing over the scale of their potential losses.

Posted by: GalosGann at December 18, 2012 08:45 AM (T3KlW)

224 I have both feet firmly planted in the "Let It Burn" camp. But it chills my heart knowing we have to burn this current form of govt to the ground to bring back our original idea of what our country is and means to the world. I have no illusion; things are going to get very ugly.

Posted by: Jypsea Rose is @AmericanGypsea at December 18, 2012 09:12 AM (iKSAz)

225 Drudge has it all. Boehner caves AND Obama rejects.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at December 18, 2012 09:18 AM (X/+QT)

226 Well, let the idiots raise taxes and see what happens....they will lose the House in the mid-term elections......just watch....if the Republicans are going to raise taxes anyway, the Democrats can do that just as easily.....

Posted by: Esdraelon at December 18, 2012 09:50 AM (jAEew)

227 How can you 'cut' a 'budget' when you don't have one?? In the double-speak from Washington, what they call 'cuts' are simply 'reductions in the cost of proposed increase.' I don't recall there ever has been any actual c u t s....

Posted by: Esdraelon at December 18, 2012 09:53 AM (jAEew)

228 Plan B for bitch

Posted by: TexasJew at December 18, 2012 10:15 AM (lD8ju)

229 And Mitt Romney helps out his 57 million-plus loyal supporters..

Posted by: TexasJew at December 18, 2012 10:18 AM (lD8ju)

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