Ace of Spades HQ

November 25, 2012

Surprising No One, Lindsey Graham Pledges To Violate Prior Pledge
— andy

If you can't trust a conservative stalwart like Lindsey Graham, who can you trust?

On ABCÂ’s This Week, Senators Lindsey Graham and Dick Durbin discussed the fiscal cliff and the possibility of a bipartisan deal on tax increases and spending cuts. Graham repeatedly indicated to host George Stephanopoulos that he is open to raising revenues, though not through raising tax rates, saying, Â“I will violate [American for Tax Reform's] pledge for the good of the economy.Â”

As the South Carolina electorate knows, D.C. doesn't have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem.

I know Graham thinks he can trade tax increases for spending cuts, but history has proven time and again that neither the new revenues nor the promised spending cuts ever arrive ("Doc Fix" anyone?). And the deficit and debt keep on growing.

Here's an idea: cut federal outlays back just to 2007's bloated, exorbitant total that makes a mockery of the term "limited government" and then we'll talk.

Posted by: andy at 09:58 AM | Comments (251)
Post contains 177 words, total size 1 kb.

1 http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/11/25/buzz-ballad-fess-up-little-susie/

Posted by: buzzsawmonkey at November 25, 2012 10:01 AM (Nnx4L)

2 This was the whole point of Pat Condell's video today- they don't want to negotiate. Negotiate all you want, sign all the agreements you can, it won't matter. Yeah, I know, Condell called them "Hamas" and the issue "Peace", but that was just a cover.

Posted by: t-bird at November 25, 2012 10:02 AM (FcR7P)

3 I hope somebody decent primaries the SOB. But he is not the only one making these "deal" noises. So is Boner.

Posted by: Vic at November 25, 2012 10:02 AM (YdQQY)

4 Miss Lindsey has done got the vapors.

Posted by: huerfano at November 25, 2012 10:02 AM (bAGA/)

5 Saxby Chambliss too, Vic.

He was a much better representative than he is a senator.

Posted by: Andy at November 25, 2012 10:04 AM (OZPoa)

6 Sucker of Cock. Wait .. what?

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 25, 2012 10:04 AM (QupBk)

7 They can't wait to sell us out.

Posted by: Vic at November 25, 2012 10:04 AM (YdQQY)

8 So when Obamacare is bankrupting businesses and then Barry has the balls to propose single payer as the solution to the mess he created, I'm sure the rock ribbed conservative in congress will fight that abomination to the bitter end on principle right?

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 25, 2012 10:05 AM (KCvsd)

9 Bipartisanship is what they call it when both parties work together to screw us. I think it was P.J. O'Rourke who said that.

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at November 25, 2012 10:05 AM (RLZvP)

10 Let the Bush tax rates expire in their entirety and return to the Clinton era rates. LiFB.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 25, 2012 10:05 AM (QupBk)

11 Geez, if you can't on Miss Lindsay to carry the conservative flag forward, on whom can you count?

Posted by: H Sandy at November 25, 2012 10:05 AM (Cnqmv)

12 I looked the cheerleaders better. Can't we bump them? Or get a new cheerleader thread?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 25, 2012 10:06 AM (GEICT)

13 98% of DC needs to be dragged to lamp posts and hung. Maybe more.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 25, 2012 10:06 AM (jucos)

14 Lindsey Grahamnesty the RINO shitbag hasn't turned democRAT yet?

Posted by: Big Baddy Don Bodine's The Bohemoth at November 25, 2012 10:07 AM (Kflw4)

Let the Bush tax rates expire in their entirety and return to the Clinton era rates.

LiFB.

Posted by: toby928Â© for TB at November 25, 2012 02:05 PM (QupBk)

Needs repeating.

Posted by: Count de Monet at November 25, 2012 10:07 AM (BAS5M)

16 Investigate, prosecute and stop election stealing, and then we can talk about governing.

Posted by: Truman North at November 25, 2012 10:07 AM (I2LwF)

17 Lindsey Graham is up for reelection in 2014. Say hello to Senator Trey Gowdy.

Posted by: Craig Poe at November 25, 2012 10:07 AM (BVkEs)

18 Really? looked = liked

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 25, 2012 10:10 AM (GEICT)

19 This guy gets a pass on changing his mind, after all he has a girls name.

Posted by: sTevo at November 25, 2012 10:10 AM (VMcEw)

20
Transcript...

GRAHAM:

I'm willing to generate revenue. It's fair to ask my party to put revenue on the table. We're below historic averages. I will not raise tax rates to do it. I will cap deductions. If you cap deductions around the $30,000, $40,000 range, you can raise $1 trillion in revenue, and the people who lose their deductions are the upper-income Americans.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 25, 2012 10:11 AM (kdS6q)

21 They can't wait to sell us out.

Posted by: Vic at November 25, 2012 02:04 PM (YdQQY)

I don't think they are waiting and they have already sold us out. They would have done it earlier, but they were on yet another taxpayer funded vacation. What is going on now is political theater so the conservatives will see the "wisdom" of bipartisan compromise (and lack of principles) because the fiscal cliff these turkeys deliberately created is inching ever closer and they desperately need to shift the blame and give themselves maximum cover.

Posted by: Hrothgar - L.I.B or SMOD for the Children at November 25, 2012 10:12 AM (Cnqmv)

22 I blame Vic for Lindsey Graham.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 25, 2012 10:12 AM (GsoHv)

23 Spending cuts? Riiiiiight. Let's call it what it really is, slower growth in spending.

Posted by: Amalgamated Cliff Divers, Local 157 at November 25, 2012 10:14 AM (BHM5V)

24 Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 25, 2012 02:11 PM (kdS6q)

Deductions are already means tested and Miss Lindsay didn't bother to point out that the AMT is NEVER up for discussion and that is worse than the deductions cap.

Posted by: Hrothgar - L.I.B or SMOD for the Children at November 25, 2012 10:14 AM (Cnqmv)

25 I guess Obama's "not one thin dime in new taxes" promise expires at the end of his first term. Peachy.

Posted by: Count de Monet at November 25, 2012 10:14 AM (BAS5M)

26 Posted by: Hrothgar - L.I.B or SMOD for the Children at November 25, 2012 02:12 PM (Cnqmv)

What fascinates me about the term "bipartisan," in a vomiting uncontrollably way, is that it highlights the lack of conviction in our politicians. If you run on a platform of "x" and when you take your seat in the Senate you immediately announce that you will fight ferociously for "x-y," then you are a whore.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 25, 2012 10:14 AM (GsoHv)

27 Grahamnesty sucks almost as bad as the spineless weeping John Boehner.

Posted by: the mean boy at November 25, 2012 10:14 AM (Kflw4)

28 Conservative. Stalwart. Heh. Conservative wart. Fixed.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at November 25, 2012 10:15 AM (Nc/0B)

29 I guess Obama's "not one thin dime in new taxes" promise expires at the end of his first term. Peachy.

Posted by: Count de Monet at November 25, 2012 02:14 PM (BAS5M)

No it is still in force, but just against the rich (who will soon have been redefined to include anyone making more than $50,000). The middle class in $50,000 and below.

Posted by: Hrothgar - L.I.B or SMOD for the Children at November 25, 2012 10:16 AM (Cnqmv)

30 Graham and Chambliss are safe in their seats, unless they are primaried.

And they know, now, from Lugar / Mourdock, that the Tea Party will not be able to put up a rival acceptable to their states at large.

Posted by: boulder hobo at November 25, 2012 10:16 AM (QTHTd)

31 If you run on a platform of "x" and when you take your seat in the Senate you immediately announce that you will fight ferociously for "x-y," then you are a whore.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 25, 2012 02:14 PM (GsoHv)

But a whore in a good way (if you are a compromising Republican)!

Posted by: Hrothgar - L.I.B or SMOD for the Children at November 25, 2012 10:17 AM (Cnqmv)

32 GRAHAM HAS GOT TO GO. Chambliss too. Considering SC has DeMint and Alabama has Sessions, how these two jackasses snuck in is puzzling. Let's get some good non-Akin/O'Donnell types and groom them now. We have got to take the party back before the GOP sells us down the river.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 25, 2012 10:19 AM (XkWWK)

33 Isn't Lindsey Graham advocating what Mittens Aurelius advocated during the election? Don't raise rates, close loopholes?

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 25, 2012 10:19 AM (uhAkr)

34 >> Isn't Lindsey Graham advocating what Mittens Aurelius advocated during the election? Don't raise rates, close loopholes?

No, Mitt was advocating lower rates in exchange for closing loopholes.

Posted by: Andy at November 25, 2012 10:20 AM (OZPoa)

Looks like Lucy is teeing up the ball for Charley Brown again!

Posted by: Ohio Dan at November 25, 2012 10:20 AM (JKNDp)

36 I have no doubt someone will run and beat Leslie Graham. The governor is a good pick or Tim Scott. Tim is a Black conservative that represents Charleston.

That would drive the fucking liberals crazy. A Black Republican running against Leslie.

He would kick his ass. The beauty of it, the only Black Senator, would be a Republican.

How you all like the taste of our ass now, bitches?

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at November 25, 2012 10:21 AM (wR+pz)

37 2 Posted by: t-bird at November 25, 2012 02:02 PM (FcR7P) THIS. As much as I utterly loathe the Dems, whenever they lose an election, they don't cave. They dig in and declare war. And when we lose, Boehner and Goober wet their diapers.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 25, 2012 10:21 AM (XkWWK)

38 We have got to take the party back before the GOP sells us down the river.

That's just crazy talk.

Posted by: John Boehner in a Sombrero at November 25, 2012 10:21 AM (uhAkr)

39 We agree to raise taxes in return for a spending cut? What could go wrong?

Posted by: George H. W. Bush at November 25, 2012 10:21 AM (sZTYJ)

40 If Miss Lindsey isn't Ghey, she certainly missed a great opportunity.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 25, 2012 10:21 AM (jucos)

When did anyone get the idea any politician is anything other than a lying shit weasel?

People used to know that like they knew the sun comes up in the east.

Posted by: Invictus at November 25, 2012 10:22 AM (OQpzc)

Well, they have to appear to do something to keep their phoney-baloney jobs.

And while they were on there, why didn't that ask that asshole from Illinois, Durbin, why the Senate has not passed a budget in three years.

Oh, that wouldn' t have been nice, would it?

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch is Eddie Willers at November 25, 2012 10:23 AM (Md8Uo)

43
And re Lindsey's 30k to 40k deduction cap:

taxpayers who declared between $50,000 and $100,000 of income in 2009, claimed, on average, $7,269 for medical expenses, $6,247 for taxes, $10,133 for interest* and $2,775 for charitable contributions, according to CCH, a tax research company.

Looks like it would hit the 100k Club square in the yarbles, especially in high tax, high housing cost states.

*I assume that's interest, dividends and capital gains.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 25, 2012 10:23 AM (kdS6q)

44 Read my weepy anus. New taxes.

Posted by: Miss Lindsey Graham at November 25, 2012 10:23 AM (jucos)

45 and when we win, folks like Boehner and Goober wet their diapers as well.

Posted by: ejo at November 25, 2012 10:23 AM (C/Spx)

46 And people don't understand why I re-registered as an independent after this last election debacle.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at November 25, 2012 10:23 AM (WWuYG)

47 >> *I assume that's interest, dividends and capital gains.

No, that's mortgage interest paid.

Posted by: Andy at November 25, 2012 10:25 AM (OZPoa)

48
@47

Ahhh - of course.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 25, 2012 10:25 AM (kdS6q)

49 Taxes will go up. Spending will go up. Beatings will continue until morale improves. We see a growing fire on the horizon. The folks next to that fire look at us and see the same thing. Have fun storming the castle.

Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 10:25 AM (bWwMZ)

50 Semi OT, I was going through some old emails, and came across one about the election. There is a website/poll service called SodaHead. It is far from scientific and is more or less for entertainment. The results are usually pretty balanced; I don't notice any left or right bias. Sometimes the results surprise me, but usually they are relatively reasonable. Anyway, I came across an email from November 5th with a poll question of "Who will be the next president of the US?" The results are staggering, and it knocked me backward. The poll results were 87% Mitt Romney, 13% Barack Obama. I can't criticize Romney's campaign for thinking they were going to win......everyone thought he was going to win! And, back to today....here we are. Standing at the edge of a fiscal cliff. Fighting amongst ourselves. Throwing people under the bus. the Benghazi investigation an apparent afterthought....how much worse will it get before it gets better?

Posted by: Tickled Pink at November 25, 2012 10:26 AM (E1Vkf)

51 The GOP is a hopeless pile of junk. Don't waste anymore effort on it.

Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 10:27 AM (bWwMZ)

52 I despise graham and McCain they will screw us over every GD time

Posted by: phoenixgirl in L.A. at November 25, 2012 10:28 AM (hQpkH)

Tickled Pink @ 50

This is better. Don't you think?

Then it will get worse.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch is Eddie Willers at November 25, 2012 10:28 AM (Md8Uo)

54 "And, back to today....here we are. Standing at the edge of a fiscal cliff. Fighting amongst ourselves. Throwing people under the bus. the Benghazi investigation an apparent afterthought....how much worse will it get before it gets better?"

What makes you think things will ever get better?

Posted by: lowandslow at November 25, 2012 10:29 AM (GZitp)

Posted by: Tickled Pink at November 25, 2012 02:26 PM (E1Vkf)

obviously that site/poll has serious serious issues since romney did in fact lose. internet polls are useless, as this one ably demonstrates.

Posted by: chas at November 25, 2012 10:29 AM (Dpiaa)

56 how much worse will it get before it gets better? Posted by: Tickled Pink at November 25, 2012 02:26 PM (E1Vkf) --------------------------------------------------------- It's not going to get better.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 25, 2012 10:30 AM (jucos)

The pubs are the J. Wellington Wimpy of politicians.

Revenue today for the promise of spending cuts next tuesday (10 years).

My life suffers defending these weasels and then they surrender. I'm starting to understand why french rifles see so little use. What is the damn point?

Posted by: Invictus at November 25, 2012 10:30 AM (OQpzc)

58 Miss Lindsey is up for re-elect in 2014.

Who can we get to primary this fucking asshole? Think Will Folks would let his possession Nikki Haley run?

Posted by: Albie Damned at November 25, 2012 10:31 AM (Yhu4q)

59 Poverty, misery and oppression are the historical norms.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 25, 2012 10:31 AM (QupBk)

Well, yes. There will be some paper hat kind of agreement, and then everybody will shake hands for the photo-op, and then it goes down the memory hole.

Who wants to bet that Federal budget deficits will go below 1 trillion dollars anytime soon? Or that the Senate will pass a budget?

Anyone? Buellar? Buellar?

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch is Eddie Willers at November 25, 2012 10:31 AM (Md8Uo)

61 Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch is Eddie Willers at November 25, 2012 02:23 PM (Md8Uo)

Unexpectedly, no Dem is ever asked a real question!

Posted by: Hrothgar - L.I.B or SMOD for the Children at November 25, 2012 10:31 AM (Cnqmv)

62 Truck monkey the go to moron for positive thinking..... I say that with love btw.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl in L.A. at November 25, 2012 10:32 AM (hQpkH)

63 Looks like I have to send another strongly worded letter to my representative.

Posted by: sTevo at November 25, 2012 10:32 AM (VMcEw)

64
Graham wasnÂ’t the only Republican to backtrack on his pledge not to raise taxes today. Rep. Peter King (R-NY) said heÂ’d vote, too, to cap deductions on NBCÂ’s Meet the Press. Â“I agree entirely with Saxby Chambliss. A pledge you signed 20 years ago, 18 years ago, is for that Congress,Â” King stated. Â“The world has changed and the economic situation is different.Â”

BB

It's now officially a trend...

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 25, 2012 10:33 AM (kdS6q)

65 I may be in the minority here, but if he can help close the kind of loopholes that result in GE paying NO FUCKING TAXES, then I'm okay with that....Grover Norquist be damned.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 25, 2012 10:33 AM (piMMO)

66 Looks like I have to send another strongly worded letter to my representative. I asked mine to just let the rates expire since, hey, the last "balanced" budget we had was under Clinton. LiFB.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 25, 2012 10:33 AM (QupBk)

67 And, he still has not indicated a willingness to raise rates, only revenue.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 25, 2012 10:34 AM (piMMO)

68 internet polls are useless, as this one ably demonstrates. Posted by: chas at November 25, 2012 02:29 PM (Dpiaa) They were all pretty much useless this year. It is so because a quiet revolution is underway. Folks are saying "Fuck you. Good luck with that" FYGLWT Figglewit.

Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 10:34 AM (bWwMZ)

69
Also:

Â“I would be very much opposed to raising tax rates, but I do believe we can close a lot of loopholes,Â” Sen. John McCain said on Â“Fox News Sunday.Â” He said that could be achieved by imposing Â“a limit on the amount of deduction on charitable giving, a limit on the amount you can take on your home loan mortgage deduction.Â”

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 25, 2012 10:34 AM (kdS6q)

70 Saxby Chambliss too, Vic. He was a much better representative than he is a senator. **** The difference is that Chambliss has stated his willingness to raise rates on the "wealthy".

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 25, 2012 10:35 AM (piMMO)

71 Whether or not the loopholes are closed, corporations don't pay taxes so........

Posted by: phoenixgirl in L.A. at November 25, 2012 10:36 AM (hQpkH)

It's now officially a trend....

This is called messaging. It's amazing how they can get on the same page with something like this, when they want to. This is what control of powerful positions in the House can do for you.

Boehner is now the most powerful Republican in Washington. Swish that around in your mouth for a minute. This is his message, and the dutiful are carrying it.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch is Eddie Willers at November 25, 2012 10:37 AM (Md8Uo)

73 Is this the point in the thread where someone says: Let. It. Burn. If not, I just did... What a pathetic little PoS...

Posted by: Whiskey_Joe at November 25, 2012 10:38 AM (RIm0W)

74 The GOP is now the official ally of the Democrat Party.

Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 10:38 AM (bWwMZ)

75 eh - Senators don't carry water for the House Speaker, Senators are too self-absorbed and arrogant for that

Posted by: chemjeff at November 25, 2012 10:38 AM (d/5qf)

76 Spread propaganda. Move to a red State. Go galt. Prepare.

Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 10:39 AM (bWwMZ)

77 @56 Did I not say that it was not a scientific poll, but also that it is not like it was some far-right outfit, either. Plus, the question was not who they wanted to win or who they are voting for. The question was who they believed would win. I guess I am not sure I will ever believe the results. When you look at the attendance and enthusiasm of the Romney events compared with the lethargy of BHO's events....still coming to terms with it, that's all. Not going to get any better? Like....ever?

Posted by: Tickled Pink at November 25, 2012 10:39 AM (E1Vkf)

I guess those saying the GOP is dead aren't looking so extreme now. Time for a whitewash. The country club Republicans have got to go.

Posted by: Andrew at November 25, 2012 10:39 AM (/opF0)

79 Lindsey Graham is like that children's rhyme, "when he was good, he was very very good, but when he was bad, he was horrid." When he is on the right side of something, like with the legal precedent stuff he ripped Eric Holder a new one about a couple of years ago (I have no idea what the case was about, Guantanamo? Trying terrorists as civilians?), he is really excellent and a good and strong spokesman about the issue. But he's so bad on so many thing it makes you want to pull your hair out. Or, maybe, pull his hair out.

Posted by: elizabethe at November 25, 2012 10:40 AM (s765P)

Rates, loopholes, deductions, whatever. Taxes to pay for the growing Welfare State.

The economy is growing at 1.5 -2% annual rate, at best. And now they want to raise revenue with all kinds of promises of spending reductions, "someday".

Someday, somewhere over the rainbow. That's where they'll be.

Next up - immigration amnesty. Another drain on the tax payer.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch is Eddie Willers at November 25, 2012 10:40 AM (Md8Uo)

81 I am planning on things NOT getting better and arranging my life accordingly. I rarely have the news on and will probably cancel my satellite service. There is nothing to watch except junk.

I am doing a lot more reading. Am going to sell off my stock in antiques and collectibles (I run a store on eBay) and will not acquire any more until I see the tax situation. I am stocking up on food and am probably going to buy a shotgun. I have 3 dogs who are good alarms, but 2 are small and probably no good for defense.

Charitable giving is going to my church only. And I am designating it so I don't end up paying for the stuff I don't agree with. Everyone else I used to donate to (my university, various medical charities, etc) can just get their money from Obama.

My project for this winter is improving my life-style, which means more exercise, less eating, and (ack) quitting smoking. I figure it will save me money and when I get to Medicare next year they won't have an excuse to harass me.

Posted by: Miss Marple at November 25, 2012 10:41 AM (GoIUi)

82 I may be in the minority here, but if he can help close the kind of loopholes that result in GE paying NO FUCKING TAXES, then I'm okay with that....Grover Norquist be damned. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 25, 2012 02:33 PM (piMMO) I agree with you NDH. I thought we were for simplifying the tax code. That's all I've heard Boehner say he was on board with in terms of "raising revenue."

Posted by: elizabethe at November 25, 2012 10:41 AM (s765P)

83 As Bob Dole once said of Bob Michel, the Republicans must quit being the tax collectors for the welfare state. Quit trying to knock the edges off the Democrat's insane plans and make them work. Long term it cannot work for the economy, and it doesn't even work politically with the MFM in enemy hands.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 25, 2012 10:42 AM (QupBk)

84 I guess those saying the GOP is dead aren't looking soextreme now. Time for a whitewash. The country club Republicans have got to go. Posted by: Andrew at November 25, 2012 02:39 PM (/opF0) Toss the whole damn thing into the trash can. I will not give the GOP any more support in any way shape or form. No money. No time. No energy. No vote.

Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 10:42 AM (bWwMZ)

85 Corporations do not pay taxes.... They pass the cost onto the consumer....

Posted by: phoenixgirl in L.A. at November 25, 2012 10:42 AM (hQpkH)

86 Not going to get any better? Like....ever?

Posted by: Tickled Pink at November 25, 2012 02:39 PM (E1Vkf)

No, it wont. They are talking about us "growing" our way out of this hole when the average prole is soaked in debt already. The nation is soaked in debt.

Short of discovering table top fusion, we're fucked.

Posted by: Invictus at November 25, 2012 10:43 AM (OQpzc)

87 Why the Democrats won

Let me offer an alternative theory: The bigger role the national media play in a race, the worst Republicans do. So the GOP does well in state legislative races and governorships, and U.S. House races, because national media basically ignore those. Does worse in Senate races, where national media will sometimes take notice, worse still for Prez, where the national media pretty much control the game.

Posted by: Glenn Reynolds on Instapundit at November 25, 2012 10:44 AM (Dll6b)

88 China is a huge dragon balanced on toothpicks. One little push and the whole thing comes crashing down.

Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 10:45 AM (bWwMZ)

Simplifying the tax code. Sure.

I'm sure that PAGES and PAGES of the tax code will be ripped out and simplified.

Sure, you bet. Based on a deal with Obama.

Sure, keep thinking those sort of thoughts. I really wish that would come to pass. The main purpose of the tax code is not necessarily to collect revenue, but to make us criminals in waiting. Obama will not sit still for simplifying the tax code.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch is Eddie Willers at November 25, 2012 10:46 AM (Md8Uo)

90 I blame Vic for Lindsey Graham.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 25, 2012 02:12 PM (GsoHv)

I voted against the SOB in the primary and the run-off last time. Two people ran against him in the primary and none of them got 50% so they had a run-off.

Here's the rub, the SOBs "ran out of ballots" at 10 am in Myrtle Beach. Graham's area is up around the Greenville-Spartenberg area.

But, he no longer controls the Party in this State. Nikki Haley's people control it now. I wish she would run against him in the primary. She would probably beat him.

The problem is it is so damn hard to get an incumbent out of office. The normal was they leave office is in a pine box.

Posted by: Vic at November 25, 2012 10:46 AM (YdQQY)

91 Looks like Lucy is teeing up the ball for Charley Brown again!

Posted by: Ohio Dan at November 25, 2012 02:20 PM (JKNDp)

You have no idea.....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 25, 2012 10:46 AM (GsoHv)

92 @90

So, Vic, what about Tim Scott?

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at November 25, 2012 10:47 AM (wR+pz)

93 Corporations do not pay taxes.... They pass the cost onto the consumer....

Posted by: phoenixgirl in L.A. at November 25, 2012 02:42 PM (hQpkH)

Just wait for price controls. That will fix that problem.

Posted by: Democrat Economics at November 25, 2012 10:48 AM (GsoHv)

94 That "GE paid no taxes" thing is pretty much an Internet myth based on a misunderstanding of what the tax numbers reported in published financial statements mean.

http://tinyurl.com/3jsz9vm

Posted by: Andy at November 25, 2012 10:48 AM (OZPoa)

95 "Not going to get any better? Like....ever?"

There was a time in the UK not that long ago where conservatism was quite popular, even wielded enough power to get Thatcher in as Prime Minister. Now conservatism in the UK is relegated to a very small minority usually seen as crackpots. The UK is a cesspool of liberalism, massive immigration coupled with cradle to grave dependency on a bankrupt government. What makes you think we're going to be any different or are that much different anymore?

Posted by: lowandslow at November 25, 2012 10:48 AM (GZitp)

96 Why the Democrats won Let me offer an alternative theory: The bigger role the national media play in a race, the worst Republicans do. So the GOP does well in state legislative races and governorships, and U.S. House races, because national media basically ignore those. Does worse in Senate races, where national media will sometimes take notice, worse still for Prez, where the national media pretty much control the game. Posted by: Glenn Reynolds on Instapundit at November 25, 2012 02:44 PM (Dll6b) Which really means the GOP is even more pathetic than what you may think. The States are satrapies in the Federal Empire. Having power there under the present circumstances is pretty much meaningless.

Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 10:48 AM (bWwMZ)

"I may be in the minority here, but if he can help close the kind of loopholes that result in GE paying NO FUCKING TAXES, then I'm okay with that....Grover Norquist be damned."

Corporations don't pay taxes. Consumers pay taxes, period. I agree with you that the tax code is not fair, it unfairly gives certain companies advantages over others, especially large companies over small businesses. Nonetheless though, corporations don't pay taxes. Saying GE or Exxon or any company should pay their fair share is BS. All you're doing is creating a hidden tax on anybody who buys cars.

So you want to raise your personal taxes in exchange for them also creating more corporate taxes, which you get to pay for as well? What a dumb idea. You say, oh, but I don't buy GE. Yeah, but somebody else you do business with does... so GE charges them more, and they then charge you more for their services. No matter what, in the end, you are going to pay more.

Corporations don't pay taxes.

Posted by: Andrew at November 25, 2012 10:48 AM (/opF0)

98 Here, this is so f'king simple. Repeat: "We'll go back to Clinton era tax rates only if you'll go back to Clinton era spending." Is that so hard? Seeing as that's apparently too difficult a message to pass on--let it burn.

Posted by: AD at November 25, 2012 10:48 AM (Iw871)

99 Posted by: Vic at November 25, 2012 02:46 PM (YdQQY)

Not good enough.

You should have planted a dead girl or a live boy in his car.

Wait....for Lindsey that would be a dead boy or a live girl......

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 25, 2012 10:49 AM (GsoHv)

100 I would be in favor of them eliminating EVERY credit listed on the 1040. All of them but the commies will not do that.

Harry Pederast Reid may be our friend on this one. He says he will not agree to anything that does not have a rate increase in it. So if he holds out for that there will not be a "deal".

Posted by: Vic at November 25, 2012 10:50 AM (YdQQY)

101 LOOK-

Politicians DON'T GIVE A FUCK. Their wealth, power, and job security insulates them from the problems that they themselves have created. There is no sense of urgency. When the crash comes, we'll be fucked, but the political class will be safe. And they know this.

Posted by: Jones in CO at November 25, 2012 10:51 AM (8sCoq)

102 Atlanta vs Tampa. Can both teams lose?

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at November 25, 2012 10:51 AM (wR+pz)

103 It does not matter what deal they make or even if there is no deal at all. Taxes will go up. Spending will go up.

Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 10:52 AM (bWwMZ)

104 With friends like these... This is why Republicans can't put up a fight in the media. Because every time we try to stand up for Conservative policy, the GOP leaders stab us in the back and give the Democrats "bipartisan" cover for their talking points.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 25, 2012 10:53 AM (Y5I9o)

105 So, Vic, what about Tim Scott?

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at November 25, 2012 02:47 PM (wR+pz)

That would be good as long as we could get another Republican in district 1. But Haley would be better since gov in SC is an almost powerless position no matter what the lying jackals at The State say.

Posted by: Vic at November 25, 2012 10:54 AM (YdQQY)

106 I will not give the GOP any more support in any way shape or form. No money. No time. No energy. No vote. Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 02:42 PM (bWwMZ) I think you stole that exact passage from the platform statement of... the MA state GOP.

Posted by: Truman North at November 25, 2012 10:54 AM (I2LwF)

107 And for fucks' sake, when did "revenue" become a synonym for "tax"? This completely hardwires the Liberal falsehood into common speech.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 25, 2012 10:54 AM (Y5I9o)

108 That "GE paid no taxes" thing is pretty much an Internet myth based on a misunderstanding of what the tax numbers reported in published financial statements mean. http://tinyurl.com/3jsz9vm Posted by: Andy at November 25, 2012 02:48 PM (OZPoa) --------------------------------------------------------- Do you have some sort of insight into GE's Profits and Earnings Ratios?

Posted by: Preznit Urkel X at November 25, 2012 10:54 AM (jucos)

109

Posted by: Tickled Pink at November 25, 2012 02:39 PM (E1Vkf)

let me reiterate, ANY internet poll is shit, pig vomit. and the attitude that the romney campaign isnt at fault for thinking they would win because "everyone" thought so just excuses what was an incredible level of incompetence. his campaign was saying states like michigan were in play and wasting valuable time by sending ryan there when florida wasnt locked down. buy hey, you read it on the internet so it must be true!!

Posted by: chas at November 25, 2012 10:55 AM (Dpiaa)

110 "107 And for fucks' sake, when did "revenue" become a synonym for "tax"? This completely hardwires the Liberal falsehood into common speech." That was an Obama/Lakoff thing. Why some of our guys appear to go along with it I have no idea.

Posted by: AD at November 25, 2012 10:56 AM (Iw871)

111 Kabuki. Theater. The global socialist movement controls both parties and your children will end up serfs and renters on the continent their forefathers conquered. So many tried to warn us. Those who try to remind people of their warnings are dismissed as nutty, tin foil hat wearing, conspiracy theorists.

Posted by: In Cognito at November 25, 2012 10:57 AM (QbKVX)

112 completely hardwires the Liberal falsehood into common speech.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 25, 2012 02:54 PM (Y5I9o)

Isn't "revenuers" still a dirty word in the south? This might be a good thing.

Posted by: Invictus at November 25, 2012 10:57 AM (OQpzc)

113 That would be good as long as we could get another Republican in district 1. But Haley would be better since gov in SC is an almost powerless position no matter what the lying jackals at The State say.

Posted by: Vic at November 25, 2012 02:54 PM (YdQQY)

I don't think finding someone for the district would be a problem, it's gerrymandered GOP. Remember, Strom's son ran in the primary.

I trust Scott more than Haley, but Haley does have some mighty nice looking tits.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at November 25, 2012 10:57 AM (wR+pz)

114

the Greeks must have a word for this mess

Posted by: play nice at November 25, 2012 10:58 AM (V83mK)

115 I work for a small company and I have to make the tax payments. I nearly have a stroke every year when I have to make them, it's ridiculous. I don't want to pay higher taxes either. I get nothing for it. I have mortgage and car payments now that did not have a year ago. What did I do, I cut back on other spending to pay them. These senators and representatives have to learn the same concept, don't spend more than you can afford. Where is Pat Cadell video?

Posted by: CarolT at November 25, 2012 10:58 AM (z4WKX)

116 114 the Greeks must have a word for this mess

Chaos.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at November 25, 2012 10:59 AM (wR+pz)

117 #114: It's worse than that. Look to the Germans for the right mix of nihilism and apathy to create that word.

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at November 25, 2012 10:59 AM (RLZvP)

118 the Greeks must have a word for this mess Νέμεσις

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 25, 2012 10:59 AM (QupBk)

119 Haley does have some mighty nice looking tits.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at November 25, 2012 02:57 PM (wR+pz)

Not large though. She is a well-built woman. Nicely proportioned.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 25, 2012 10:59 AM (GsoHv)

120 Eman, Been thinking about taking your advice. Law school is looking more and more like a losing bet because the legal industry is so utterly, utterly, fucked.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 25, 2012 11:00 AM (oYccn)

121 Some fires can only be put out by a tsunami.

Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 11:00 AM (bWwMZ)

122 Not large though. She is a well-built woman. Nicely proportioned.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 25, 2012 02:59 PM (GsoHv)

She likes to show them!

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at November 25, 2012 11:02 AM (wR+pz)

123 The sell out GOP needs a dead pool on being primary'd to oblivion.

Sooner or later they'll get the message, we'd rather have real Ds win worst case than have you bastards selling us out.

Posted by: Harlekwin15 at November 25, 2012 11:02 AM (LRFds)

124 Posted by: toby928Â© for TB at November 25, 2012 02:59 PM (QupBk)

Yup.

It's coming and there is nothing that we can do about it.

Except for this:

http://tinyurl.com/bnqydns

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 25, 2012 11:03 AM (GsoHv)

125 Matter of fact during my visit to MB, SC I decided Senator Nikki Hayley has a nice ring to it Lindsey.

If I'm gonna send an emo girl name to DC it may as well be on a girl.

Posted by: Harlekwin15 at November 25, 2012 11:04 AM (LRFds)

126 "Been thinking about taking your advice. Law school is looking more and more like a losing bet because the legal industry is so utterly, utterly, fucked." Smart guy. Unless you can get into a very top school or a very good scholarship (and make sure it's one they can't pull out from under you), I wouldn't recommend it.

Posted by: AD at November 25, 2012 11:04 AM (Iw871)

127 Except for this The succubus that haunts my dreams.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 25, 2012 11:04 AM (QupBk)

128 126 AD,

not for the primary bread winner in a family anyway.

The thing is if we revert back to clans and tribes every clan and tribe will need a lawyer.

Posted by: Harlekwin15 at November 25, 2012 11:05 AM (LRFds)

129 so tax raise for a spending cut?
I wouldn't mind if all the cuts are for the leadership.
How about Their pay gets cut to resemble all of us in our forties starting back to work at slightly above minimum wage, Their healthcare becomes EXACTLY what we have Obamacare.. And their pensions look like what's left of Ours also.

then we can talk.

How about They feel the pain of their decisions?

How about no UN paid for by us, How about they pay heir own fines and penalties for parking.
how about they Pay for insider trading.
How about they go to jail for making deals to benefit their families and friends?

then we talk.

or lib

Posted by: willow at November 25, 2012 11:05 AM (hX8cq)

130 Except for this: http://tinyurl.com/bnqydns Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 25, 2012 03:03 PM (GsoHv) -------------------------------------------------------- You, sir, are a Gentleman and a Scholar.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 25, 2012 11:07 AM (jucos)

131 Oh and any law they impart on the population they are also held to.
any tax
any fine
anything and everything.

Posted by: willow at November 25, 2012 11:08 AM (hX8cq)

132 I am quite sure Choom Boy will agree to spending cuts in 2025 in return for immediate tax increases today. The ball-less pampered lords in Congress will find that a wonderful "bi-partisan" agreement, from longtime sellouts like McCain and Graham to stalwart surrender monkeys like McConnell and Boner.

We all know there is still some money out there somewhere that the government hasn't yet confiscated, most of it in the hands of those evil bastiges, "teh wealthiest Americans." The Traitor-in-Chief has always made it clear that he needs that money to redistribute to his supporters and members of his protected classes.

No matter what we say or think, this will happen. Taxes will go up, the economy will be further crippled, and Obamafones will be handed out to one and all.

Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 25, 2012 11:08 AM (yKUrR)

133 The thing is if we revert back to clans and tribes every clan and tribe will need a lawyer. Posted by: Harlekwin15 at November 25, 2012 03:05 PM (LRFds) At your service...

Posted by: AD at November 25, 2012 11:08 AM (Iw871)

134 In all seriousness it's time to dump the republican party and let it die. Remember how everyone said nothing's too big to fail? They were right, let the republican party die, maybe it'll come back, maybe not, who cares because at this point it's worthless. In the meantime protect your money and try to stay out of the grasp of the system as much as possible.

Posted by: booger at November 25, 2012 11:09 AM (HI6wa)

135 @124

I notice she is a member of the "Star Alliance". Can I use my miles on her?

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at November 25, 2012 11:09 AM (wR+pz)

136 Yes. I understand that "corporations" do not pay taxes. I've made that argument myself, but when Joe Schmoe's Sugar Shack has to raise prices to cover his taxes and other in his industry do not, there is a problem.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 25, 2012 11:10 AM (piMMO)

137 133 AD,

heh and hardly a joke...

it comes to run red as a survival thing you're on my rolodex....

I already have a doctor in mind.

Posted by: Harlekwin15 at November 25, 2012 11:10 AM (LRFds)

138 MrScribbler

yeah where do i get my obamaphone, my free electric, my free apt. ,my free food!

Posted by: willow at November 25, 2012 11:10 AM (hX8cq)

139 Corporations do not pay taxes.... They pass the cost onto the consumer.... **** That's quite the violent image!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 25, 2012 11:11 AM (piMMO)

140 i know we'll cut 75% on military Obama can drone every enemy from his bedroom.

Posted by: willow at November 25, 2012 11:12 AM (hX8cq)

141 just not at 3:00 am

Posted by: willow at November 25, 2012 11:13 AM (hX8cq)

142 140 willow,

they're on it....

I for one welcome our new SCOAMF overlords well at least until I get that underground cavern ready.

Posted by: Harlekwin15 at November 25, 2012 11:13 AM (LRFds)

143 yeah where do i get my obamaphone, my free electric, my free apt. ,my free food!
Posted by: willow at November 25, 2012 03:10 PM

In a year, you won't have to ask that. Just head downtown and follow the long line of people who lost their jobs when the last American manufacturing operations shut down their factories.

BTW: when the EHTF (economy hits the fan), all the glorious service jobs will fail, too. When people have no money, they won't be buying Big Macs or big-screen teevees....

Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 25, 2012 11:14 AM (yKUrR)

144 How can the same state that sent up Demint, send up Lindsay?

Posted by: Butters at November 25, 2012 11:14 AM (NIZHJ)

145 welcome our new SCOAMF overlords well at least until I get that underground cavern ready

Harlekwin15, When the cavern is ready please send us address by snail mail,, safer that way!

Posted by: willow at November 25, 2012 11:15 AM (hX8cq)

146

Posted by: booger at November 25, 2012 03:09 PM (HI6wa)

thats just not the answer. neither is forming little splinter groups like the tea party. the progessive moment started in 1968 taking over the democrat party. and they did it by using the rules and working within the system. forming a committed group that will learn the rules and use them to take over leadership positions and use those positions to distribute money and resources to preferred candidates is the way. the number of people who actually participate in the inner workings of party politics is usually small so it doesnt take a large group to influence things behind the scenes.

Posted by: chas at November 25, 2012 11:15 AM (Dpiaa)

147 Corporations do not pay taxes.... They pass the cost onto the consumer.... **** That's quite the violent image! **** DAMNIT! My 'copy' function failed me. That was a response to the tsunami comment.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 25, 2012 11:16 AM (piMMO)

148 MrScribbler, uh hmm, I'm sure the only jobs left will be public services

not the good kind.

Posted by: willow at November 25, 2012 11:16 AM (hX8cq)

149 Since we are being all doomy, my BiL showed me his arsenal this Thanksgiving and welcomed me to bugout to his place in the event of Zombie Apocalypse. I thought I was prepared for trouble but geez, this guy is locked and loaded.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 25, 2012 11:18 AM (QupBk)

150 Posted by: willow at November 25, 2012 03:16 PM

Someone will have to be handing out those Obamafones!

Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 25, 2012 11:18 AM (yKUrR)

151 It never fails that the moment you look lovingly upon your cat, saying "Aww, Buddy. My sweet boy." he will reflexively roll over and lick his ass.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 25, 2012 11:18 AM (piMMO)

152

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 25, 2012 03:10 PM (piMMO)

since every business is unique in many ways you can never make a strict apples to apples comparison. especially on taxes. maybe joe's accountant is as good as his competitor's?

Posted by: chas at November 25, 2012 11:19 AM (Dpiaa)

153 toby, well i have a frying pan , some rocks, butter knives, two hammers,. etc..

i'm doomed

Posted by: willow at November 25, 2012 11:19 AM (hX8cq)

154 All kidding aside I found my 11.5 acres I need to decide whether to gamble on being able to carry a 250 dollar a month mortgage on it is bearable.

Posted by: Harlekwin15 at November 25, 2012 11:20 AM (LRFds)

155 Niedermeyer, or give your leg a hug with nails out.

Posted by: willow at November 25, 2012 11:20 AM (hX8cq)

156 Gambling? At Rick's?

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 25, 2012 11:20 AM (RMCS5)

157 I think my BiL inherited my FiL's weapons cache and added more. At least I recognized the sawed-off double barrel as formerly belonging to my FiL.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 25, 2012 11:21 AM (QupBk)

158 149 Toby 928th,

I'm stuck wondering if preparing too hard up here is counterproductive.

Red dawn Rebooted was mostly harmless fun if you can look past the cave to the Chi Coms.

Was cute they had the Comedian as Tanner.

Posted by: Harlekwin15 at November 25, 2012 11:21 AM (LRFds)

159 Posted by: chas at November 25, 2012 03:15 PM (Dpiaa) Yes, except that it started before 1968 and its job is nearly done. The GOP offers no hope of turning this ship around. The Left's takeover of the Democrat Party was done alongside the RINO takeover of the GOP. They work in sync now and the monster they created can no longer be stopped or shrunk back to the size of a pea. Let It Burn

Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 11:21 AM (bWwMZ)

160 fool me once, shame on you.

fool me twice, shame on me.

fool me repeatedly, the NY Times will write that I've grown in office, praise me for my spirit of bipartisanship, and then endorse my Dem opponent during the next election

Posted by: mallfly at November 25, 2012 11:21 AM (bJm7W)

161 @144

Graham comes from upstate and ran after Thurman left. He ran as a pro military guy, he was in the AF. He only served one term in US House and was an unknown. Up State SC, Vic area, is where most of the Republicans are in the state.

Don't worry he's toast. The squess that had his seat after he left the House, started voting liberal and just got beaten by a Tea Party guy in the primary.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at November 25, 2012 11:22 AM (wR+pz)

162 >>Posted by: mallfly at November 25, 2012 03:21 PM *golf clap*

Posted by: Y-not at November 25, 2012 11:23 AM (5H6zj)

163 since every business is unique in many ways you can never make a strict apples to apples comparison. especially on taxes. maybe joe's accountant is as good as his competitor's? **** Yes. By all means. Let's start arguing against ourselves that the tax system is fair if only you had a better accountant. And that girl wouldn't be assaulted if she wore a longer skirt.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 25, 2012 11:23 AM (piMMO)

164 We here in CO are not even getting a break from effing political commercials. Every special interest group has an ad. I love the "we need to create jobs, not cut services families depend on" Yeah the people who voted for SCOAMT think government can increase revenue by creating jobs. No notion that clawing back whatever percent in income taxes doesn't increase revenue when the government is funding 100% of the salary and benefits of the job. Thank you NEA.

Posted by: Palerider at November 25, 2012 11:23 AM (FYUWS)

165 All kidding aside I found my 11.5 acres I need to decide whether to gamble on being able to carry a 250 dollar a month mortgage on it is bearable. Go for it. Wait tables at night if you have to.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 25, 2012 11:24 AM (QupBk)

166 Why are you all complaining? All we have to do is shovel money to ~~my donors~~ Green jobs and "invest" in left-handed lesbian inuit studies and we'll be living in a total paradise!!1!

Posted by: Obama's Green Czar at November 25, 2012 11:24 AM (sZTYJ)

167 Posted by: chas at November 25, 2012 03:15 PM (Dpiaa)

Yeah, heard that for years, not interested anymore. Libertarians have a strong stance on taxes and understand how immoral the income tax is, they don't need to be convinced that it's disgusting to to force people to work for government under threat of imprisonment. Anybody who wants to waste time trying to prop up the republican party like the government props up gm is free to knock themselves out, libertarians will be getting my vote.

Posted by: booger at November 25, 2012 11:25 AM (HI6wa)

168 Niedermeyer, or give your leg a hug with nails out. **** I had a cat, years ago, who would climb my legs if I didn't pick him up on queue. It only takes a couple of times to become very attuned to the signals.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 25, 2012 11:25 AM (piMMO)

169 And for fucks' sake, when did "revenue" become a synonym for "tax"? This completely hardwires the Liberal falsehood into common speech.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 25, 2012 02:54 PM (Y5I9o)

Shirley you jest. Redefining the language has been a goal of the left for a long time, because it makes language, and thus understanding, both transient and subservient to the needs of the ruling class, and the ruling class has bipartisan support.

We have always been at War with EastAsia!

Posted by: Hrothgar - L.I.B or SMOD for the Children at November 25, 2012 11:25 AM (Cnqmv)

170 And that girl wouldn't be assaulted if she wore a longer skirt.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 25, 2012 03:23 PM (piMMO)

More like, "That girl dressed like a slut should have hired a bodyguard. It's all her fault reallly."

Posted by: Invictus at November 25, 2012 11:25 AM (OQpzc)

171 CBD, excellent work on Teh Upton. The club has been slacking on lewd materials provided. Way to pick up the slack.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 25, 2012 11:26 AM (GEICT)

172 How can the same state that sent up Demint, send up Lindsay?

Posted by: Butters at November 25, 2012 03:14 PM (NIZHJ)

He was a reliable conservative when he was in the House. Also when first elected to the Senate. But he stated palling around with McCain and learned evil ways.

Posted by: Vic at November 25, 2012 11:26 AM (YdQQY)

173 165 Toby 928th,

My ass doesn't wiggle when I walk...no not a lot of waiting opportunities in SW LA.

I may try to sell the timber on it though.

Posted by: Harlekwin15 at November 25, 2012 11:26 AM (LRFds)

174 More like, "That girl dressed like a slut should have hired a ~~bodyguard~~ Pimp. It's all her fault reallly."

Posted by: Invictus at November 25, 2012 03:25 PM (OQpzc)

FIFY.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at November 25, 2012 11:27 AM (wR+pz)

175 I think Leslie got MSM fever and like being on TV and invited to the "parties".

He is really full of shit. I've met him a couple of times, and it took a lot of will power not to smack his pussy little fat face.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at November 25, 2012 11:29 AM (wR+pz)

176 The club has been slacking on lewd materials provided. Way to pick up the slack. Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 25, 2012 03:26 PM (GEICT) --------------------------------------------------------------- Lewd? That was ART!

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 25, 2012 11:29 AM (jucos)

177 175 Billy Bob,

He was at a party I was at in 1996, I did everything in my power to not be near him and then run like hell.

I don't regret it.

Posted by: Harlekwin15 at November 25, 2012 11:30 AM (LRFds)

178 Our choices now are the Socialists (formerly known as the democrat party) and the New Liberal Democrats (formerly known as the Repuke Party). Conservatives no longer are represented on a national basis.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 25, 2012 11:32 AM (jucos)

179 178 Truck Monkey,

There's an app for that.

Run Red

Posted by: Harlekwin15 at November 25, 2012 11:34 AM (LRFds)

180 Graham really is "dead man walking", and I have ZERO problem with a candidate from the retard wing running taking his place in South Carolina. If Christine O'Donnell moved to South Carolina, she'd be the next Senator from South Carolina.

Republicans really do have a once in a lifetime "teachable moment" they can give to America. My bet is they'll waste it on some bullshit promise that in 30 years, they'll look at cutting the rate of spending.

Posted by: Jeepers at November 25, 2012 11:35 AM (XDRsa)

181 Posted by: booger at November 25, 2012 03:25 PM (HI6wa)

Can I ask you, honestly, what you have done to influence your local Republican Party?

Posted by: chemjeff at November 25, 2012 11:35 AM (d/5qf)

182 176 The club has been slacking on lewd materials provided. Way to pick up the slack. Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 25, 2012 03:26 PM (GEICT) --------------------------------------------------------------- Lewd? That was ART! Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 25, 2012 03:29 PM (jucos) http://tinyurl.com/cpr2gqh THAT'S art

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 25, 2012 11:36 AM (GEICT)

183 I fully support temporary tax hikes for the extent of the emergency, though since there is no way they can take care of the emergency themselves, they must be coupled with reform of expenditures. I consider this reasonable. I do not support permanent higher tax rates for some, my reason being because I am not avaricious. But I do wish to be reasonable on this, even if a deal pops up that a reasonable person, based upon past history, would say there is reason to believe the Democrats have no intention of honoring (just as past cuts never get honored, just as welfare reform is not honored, just as amnesty for border enforcement is not honored). I wish to be reasonable now so that when the moment comes, all reasonable men will understand we in fact were reasonable at a time when reason says it could have made a difference, and that the other side only intended to reason their way to further ideological gains (that they could not achieve electorally) instead of using reason to find a solution to systemic problems, and thus.... ...that we have legitimate reason.

Posted by: J. at November 25, 2012 11:38 AM (BaACK)

184 So taking more money out of the private sector in order to hand it over to the Free Shit Army, bloated public unions, corrupt hacks, and rent seeking corporations is what's good for America?

Will the last Reagan Republican please turn out the lights?

Posted by: kbdabear at November 25, 2012 11:39 AM (wwsoB)

185 Posted by: J. at November 25, 2012 03:38 PM (BaACK) Thanks for your concern

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 25, 2012 11:39 AM (GEICT)

186 87 Why the Democrats won Let me offer an alternative theory: The bigger role the national media play in a race, the worst Republicans do. So the GOP does well in state legislative races and governorships, and U.S. House races, because national media basically ignore those. Does worse in Senate races, where national media will sometimes take notice, worse still for Prez, where the national media pretty much control the game. Posted by: Glenn Reynolds on Instapundit at November 25, 2012 02:44 PM (Dll6b) . Let me offer an alternative alternative theory. A lot of people really do understand fiscal irresponsibility and prefer conservatives at the local level, where they themselves are wholly on the hook, but prefer sending someone to DC who'll bring them someone else's shit, or at least can get more of the necessary heavy lifting shifted elsewhere. Gun it over the cliff. The only way for people to learn that they're ultimately not in on the action is to Burn them.

Posted by: BuddyPC at November 25, 2012 11:39 AM (VlDJe)

187 I wish to be reasonable now so that when the moment comes, all reasonable men will understand we in fact were reasonable at a time when reason says it could have made a difference, and that the other side only intended to reason their way to further ideological gains I'll have what J's smoking. And Denver will not cover the spread.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 25, 2012 11:41 AM (QupBk)

188 My bet is they'll waste it on some bullshit promise that in 30 years, they'll look at cutting the rate of spending.

In 30 years it won't be necessary. Thunderdome's discussions on economic policy tend to be more concrete and immediate in nature. "Embargo on" "Embargo off"

Posted by: Winston Smith at November 25, 2012 11:41 AM (j8hxb)

189 Can I ask you, honestly, what you have done to influence your local Republican Party?

Posted by: chemjeff at November 25, 2012 03:35 PM (d/5qf)Can I ask you, honestly, what you have done to influence your local Republican Party?

Posted by: chemjeff at November 25, 2012 03:35 PM (d/5qf)

^ This may be the most fundamental question posed on this and many other AoS threads. I see little likelihood of political novices standing up a new party powerful enough to take on the entrenched ruling class establishment Republicans; however, subversive movements to reform the party from within are much harder to counter.

Start locally, think statewide, and aim for national!

Posted by: Hrothgar - L.I.B or SMOD for the Children at November 25, 2012 11:44 AM (Cnqmv)

190 187 And Denver will not cover the spread. Posted by: toby928Â© for TB at November 25, 2012 03:41 PM (QupBk) Of course they won't. I picked them to cover. Fucking Manning. Asshole.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 25, 2012 11:45 AM (GEICT)

191 We have to pass the budget to see what's in it!

Posted by: Nancy Graham at November 25, 2012 11:46 AM (wwsoB)

192 Don't be a bettor, be the bookie. Bookmaking is a depression proof profession.

Posted by: Winston Smith at November 25, 2012 11:47 AM (j8hxb)

193 ...that we have legitimate reason. Posted by: J. at November 25, 2012 03:38 PM

Is Axelrod giving bonuses out for the number of times you can put the word "reason" and it's derivatives in a post?

Posted by: kbdabear at November 25, 2012 11:49 AM (wwsoB)

194 Ogabe's pen will never touch another budget. Law is for the little people.

Posted by: Winston Smith at November 25, 2012 11:49 AM (j8hxb)

195 We're just prisoners of the white lines on the freeway!

Posted by: Joni Graham at November 25, 2012 11:50 AM (rzTDZ)

196 Can I ask you, honestly, what you have done to influence your local Republican Party?

Yeah, sorry, not going to play the game of "what have you done". I believe in the free market and the market has produced a party that agrees with me on taxes and doesn't need to be convinced or changed, that party is the libertarian party and they'll be getting my vote.

Posted by: booger at November 25, 2012 11:50 AM (HI6wa)

197 Is Axelrod giving bonuses out for the number of times you can put the word "reason" and it's derivatives in a post? Sounds like a reasonably reasonable reason.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 25, 2012 11:51 AM (GEICT)

198 There's a bit more than white lines imprisoning me Joni.

Posted by: Bad movie guy at November 25, 2012 11:51 AM (j8hxb)

199 As a Concerned Christian Conservative, I have reason to be thankful that a reasonably reasonable person such as j. showed up to show us all how to be reasonable in a reasonably unreasonable time. Thank you j.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 25, 2012 11:51 AM (jucos)

200 Fact: of all the things that Obama and Reid can force down our throats, higher marginal tax rates on $250K+ is among the most benign.

I would much, much rather see the GOP cave on marginal tax rates than give Obama, say, a carbon tax or VAT.

Posted by: JEM at November 25, 2012 11:52 AM (o+SC1)

201 Since the time of FDR no Democrat in history has ever balanced budget by raising taxes. They always raise taxes AND spending. We did not get into this mess by lowering taxes. We got here by raising spending by $1.1T. And that was supposed to be "temporary stimulus" but instead because Pederast Reid refuses to bring a budget to the table we keep passing CRs in the House and keep the same budget for OBama's entire term.

If the House Republicans had any balls they would shut it down and pass no more CRs.

Posted by: Vic at November 25, 2012 11:52 AM (YdQQY)

202 All this talk of reasonable is bullshit. I'm just saying...

Posted by: Bad movie guy at November 25, 2012 11:53 AM (j8hxb)

203 I gave up watching the Sunday morning shows about a year ago. I got tired of hearing the same bullshit group of bullshitters bullshitting. My blood pressure is down

Posted by: Ombudsman at November 25, 2012 11:54 AM (HqXYa)

204 Be nice...

...until its time to not be nice.

Posted by: Roadhouse at November 25, 2012 11:55 AM (j8hxb)

205 I gave up watching the Sunday morning shows about a year ago. I got tired of hearing the same bullshit group of bullshitters bullshitting. My blood pressure is down Posted by: Ombudsman at November 25, 2012 03:54 PM (HqXYa) ----------------------------------------------------- I did too, about the same time that I quit smoking. I now watch whatever my kids turn on. Disney or Teen Nick.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 25, 2012 11:56 AM (jucos)

206 Fact: of all the things that Obama and Reid can force down our throats, higher marginal tax rates on $250K+ is among the most benign.

1. That is $250K household income, not individual and it is not indexed for inflation (which they under call anyway)
2. We do NOT need a tax increase. We need to slash spending back to 2008 levels.
3. If we increase taxes the commies will just increase spending again.

Posted by: Vic at November 25, 2012 11:56 AM (YdQQY)

207 The Dems don't even use the nasty "T" word in their talking points now...they use the friendly-sounding term, "raising revenue". It's amazing to hear a couple dem pols on CNN spend 10 minutes discussing raising taxes without ever actually using the word.

Posted by: Icedog at November 25, 2012 11:56 AM (9ScGj)

208 The guy Chambliss beat blew his legs off playing with grenades. Chambliss has decided to blow off his balls

Posted by: kbdabear at November 25, 2012 11:56 AM (wwsoB)

209 no tax increase until they give back the stimulus, which has become an annual component of government spending. government spending has skyrocketed over the past 4 years in due to the stimulus.

Posted by: exceller at November 25, 2012 11:57 AM (Z7Znk)

210

I blame Vic for Lindsey Graham.

I'm sure we can put the blame on the religious right.

Posted by: katya the designated driver at November 25, 2012 11:57 AM (DoZD+)

211 that party is the libertarian party and they'll be getting my vote. So you're That Guy. I always wondered who was in the 1% that votes for the L party. Seriously though, the practical problem with the L's is that they run candidates for big state and national offices, where they get slaughtered and laughed at. I think they should be a national version of the yankee Conservative Party, and run people for local offices while selling their endorsement to the one of the two majors, until they can get to at least 10%. And I'm amazed that a party that gets 1% at the national is the 3rd largest in the US. We really are a two-party system I guess.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 25, 2012 11:57 AM (QupBk)

212 206 1. That is $250K household income, not individual and it is not indexed for inflation (which they under call anyway) 2. We do NOT need a tax increase. We need to slash spending back to 2008 levels. 3. ~~If we increase taxes~~ the commies will just increase spending again. Posted by: Vic at November 25, 2012 03:56 PM (YdQQY) Minor correction. Commits will be commits no matter the reality.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 25, 2012 11:58 AM (GEICT)

213 Start locally, think statewide, and aim for national! Posted by: Hrothgar - L.I.B or SMOD for the Children at November 25, 2012 03:44 PM (Cnqmv) Have fun storming the castle.

Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 11:58 AM (bWwMZ)

214 ...We need to slash spending back to 2008 levels...

Good times...before anyone realized it was a depression and the collapse was upon us. Halcyon days for sure.

Posted by: The Good Old Days at November 25, 2012 11:58 AM (j8hxb)

215 Fuck you autocorrect. *Commies will be commies

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 25, 2012 11:59 AM (GEICT)

216 I am under the spell of that Kate Upton gif. I can't stop watching it.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 25, 2012 11:59 AM (jucos)

217 The Dems don't even use the nasty "T" word in their talking points now...they use the friendly-sounding term, "raising revenue".

Raising revenue is like raising mushrooms, you gotta keep people in the dark and feed them a lot of horse shit.

Posted by: The Good Old Days at November 25, 2012 12:01 PM (j8hxb)

218 If the House Republicans had any balls they would shut it down and pass no more CRs. Posted by: Vic at November 25, 2012 03:52 PM (YdQQY) The House Republicans can do something very helpful. Resign all at once.

Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 12:02 PM (bWwMZ)

219 This is the problem with falling in love with politicians. They break your heart every time.

Posted by: navybrat at November 25, 2012 12:03 PM (r1ty1)

220 Fuck you autocorrect.

I think it's a pain in the ass too. Then again, I'm a guy who argues with his car's GPS.

Posted by: Ombudsman at November 25, 2012 12:05 PM (HqXYa)

221 Then again, I'm a guy who argues with his car's GPS. Ha! My brother does that. Tom Tom keeps telling him to turn around.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 25, 2012 12:07 PM (QupBk)

222 Ha! My brother does that. Tom Tom keeps telling him to turn around. Posted by: toby928Â© for TB at November 25, 2012 04:07 PM (QupBk) ----------------------------------------------------------- I will never submit to having a computer voice tell me where to go. Never.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 25, 2012 12:08 PM (jucos)

223 183 I fully support temporary tax hikes for the extent of the emergency, though since there is no way they can take care of the emergency themselves, they must be coupled with reform of expenditures. I consider this reasonable. Coming in late, but there is no such thing as a "temporary tax hike". They have a habit of becoming permanent.

Posted by: I lurk, therefore I am at November 25, 2012 12:08 PM (iFl7N)

224 Computer navigated cars - what could possibly go wrong?

Posted by: The Good Old Days at November 25, 2012 12:09 PM (j8hxb)

225 I will never submit to having a computer voice tell me where to go. Never. Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 25, 2012 04:08 PM (jucos) "Recalculating. Rip me off the dashboard and throw me out the window."

Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 12:10 PM (bWwMZ)

226 Computer navigated cars - what could possibly go wrong? **** Wait until they are all programmed to drive us from our home in the slums to our jobs sewing Obama flags in the factories.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 25, 2012 12:11 PM (piMMO)

227 ...there is no such thing as a "temporary tax hike"...

That Federal "excise tax" on tires? It was enacted during WWII as a temporary war time measure.

Tolls on the NYS thruway? Sold to the public as temporary until the construction bonds were paid off....which was decades ago.

Posted by: The Good Old Days at November 25, 2012 12:12 PM (j8hxb)

228 Coming in late, but there is no such thing as a "temporary tax hike". They have a habit of becoming permanent. **** Such as state sales tax. Nobody would ever have agreed to a 7% sales tax. They agreed to it in much smaller increments.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 25, 2012 12:12 PM (piMMO)

229 ...there is no such thing as a "temporary tax hike"... That Federal "excise tax" on tires? It was enacted during WWII as a temporary war time measure. Tolls on the NYS thruway? Sold to the public as temporary until the construction bonds were paid off....which was decades ago. Posted by: The Good Old Days at November 25, 2012 04:12 PM (j8hxb) I think phone bills still have a tax on them from the Spanish-American War.

Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 12:13 PM (bWwMZ)

230 If budgets are just frozen, then inflation produces the needed cuts, right?

Posted by: The Good Old Days at November 25, 2012 12:14 PM (j8hxb)

231 What budget?

Posted by: Infidel at November 25, 2012 12:16 PM (6gXNv)

232 If we just said "everything is the same as it was in 2008, no exceptions", we could send congress home...and the stock market would boom.

Posted by: The Good Old Days at November 25, 2012 12:16 PM (j8hxb)

233 What budget?

Yea, I never heard of it either.

Posted by: The Searchlight Strangler at November 25, 2012 12:17 PM (j8hxb)

234 President Obama seems to want to punish the rich and successful more than anything else in his agenda. Republicans want to avoid increasing taxes on job-creators. Here's a possible win-win that would put the President on the spot. The deal:

1. Democrats agree to spending cuts of $4T (or more, if the House can get it), including entitlements - failure to do this is a deal-breaker.
2. Republicans agree to increase INCOME taxes on the "wealthy" - income greater than $350K/yr (or any number that all can agree to) with the following caveat - no increase if the filer is a small business that creates jobs.

Here's how the caveat could be enforced: If a tax return includes a Schedule C or Schedule K (sole proprietorship, subchapter S, or partnership form), and the business employs at least 4 (or 5 or pick a number) employees, the increased tax rate does not apply - no matter how much income is involved. If the Tax Schedule doesn't already contain the number of employees, it could be added easily. Might even include a scaled rate reduction for increased numbers of employees.

This gives the Dems their tax increase - maybe especially on the rich Democrat-voting counties in NY, CT, CA, etc. while preserving the current rates for job-creating small businesses. Let him punish his own rich, Obama-voting constituents!

Posted by: Ken Williams at November 25, 2012 12:24 PM (vmRay)

235 No, I think I understand what J. is saying.

He/she/it is saying that it's fine to *appear* "reasonable" to the other side, right up until the moment that it is revealed for all to see that the other side was never intending on being "reasonable" in the first place.

Or, J. is a troll. one of the two.

Posted by: chemjeff at November 25, 2012 12:28 PM (d/5qf)

236 Well, booger, might I suggest that before you give your vote to a party that has an even worse record than Republicans when it comes to winning elections, that you at least *try* to get involved in your local Republican HQ.

Posted by: chemjeff at November 25, 2012 12:29 PM (d/5qf)

237 Â“I will violate [American for Tax Reform's] pledge for the good of the economy.Â”

Yeah, because the shitheel himself knows what's good for the economy.

Fucking prick.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at November 25, 2012 12:30 PM (F3HO3)

238 And none of this includes the ObamaCare Godzilla just now strolling on shore.

Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 12:37 PM (bWwMZ)

239 Here's a fascinating game we all can play!: http://tinyurl.com/cb3aw9g My answer= #2

Posted by: DAve at November 25, 2012 12:39 PM (XDC0v)

240 Romney also proposed to cap deductions. Now Graham is a son of a bitch for proposing exactly the same thing? I guess a lot has changed since Election Day.

Posted by: Jordan at November 25, 2012 12:39 PM (jRfn3)

241 #235 I agree w/ chemjeff. It's important to be fair before unleashing the hounds of hell

Posted by: DAve at November 25, 2012 12:40 PM (XDC0v)

242 Romney also proposed to cap deductions. Now Graham is a son of a bitch for proposing exactly the same thing? I guess a lot has changed since Election Day. Posted by: Jordan at November 25, 2012 04:39 PM (jRfn3) Mitt was a dick on taxes, too. People like Mitt have helped the Democrats for decades.

Posted by: eman at November 25, 2012 12:44 PM (bWwMZ)

243 Just expose the fact that Graham is gay already. I'm sure that that'll play in SC.

Posted by: Illinidiva at November 25, 2012 12:48 PM (uzj/t)

244 Senate is not doing their jobs, cut their pay accordingly and make them abide by the laws they throw down our throats, Obamacare for everyone, from Obama and his family, Biden and all congress. They should have no pensions. This used to be called public service. They are paid too much because they suck at their jobs!

Posted by: CarolT at November 25, 2012 12:49 PM (z4WKX)

245 236 Well, booger, might I suggest that before you give your vote to a party that has an even worse record than Republicans when it comes to winning elections, that you at least *try* to get involved in your local Republican HQ.

Oh look, you just went ahead and assumed i haven't done anything, who could have possibly seen that coming? Now you say "well, what have you done" and then i'll tell you and then you can proclaim that it just wasn't enough and so on. In the meantime, i'm just going to go ahead and vote for people that actually agree with me now instead of wasting decades trying to change republicans, but thanks anyway.

Posted by: booger at November 25, 2012 12:56 PM (HI6wa)

246 This is the deal I could live with

1) Raise all taxes to Clinton rates
2) Cut spending as a percentage of GDP to Clinton rate

If the friggin Clinton years were so great then the Dems should love this? Ya right

Why cannot the Republicans just get on message and say the Dems want all power in Washington and are intent on destroying American as it was founded, just go on TV and repeat, repeat and repeat.

Dems stick to the stupidest talking points but because they say them over and over forever they get believed Republicans have this nuanced (re: waffling) approach that always reeks that our side will give in.

Posted by: bobbymike at November 25, 2012 01:07 PM (wJSZn)

247 Andy- You're DEAD wrong. The name of the game right now is to give Obama what he wants. Because once the economy doesn't recover, he'll own it lock, stock and barrel. Don't give the public even a smidge of room to lay blame at the GOP feet. And even if they do.....so what? Let it burn. LET IT BURN. The people who'd be most impacted deserve the misery. Eff 'em. LET IT BURN. LET THEM BURN. Eff 'em all. I'd see this country a smoking crater before I ever advocated anything that could make life better for the free-stuff brigade. Let it burn. Let them burn. Let them suffer. MAKE THEM SUFFER

Posted by: trump at November 25, 2012 01:08 PM (F8Lnm)

248 #37 ... As much as I utterly loathe the Dems, whenever they lose an election, they don't cave. They dig in and declare war."

SO does the GOP.Unfortunately, they declare it on their base.

Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 25, 2012 01:12 PM (qvify)

249 The republican hierarcy is so determined to be come democrat lite they will probably back Graham for president in 2016. I mean McCain Romney and Graham. A hat trick for the republican elite.

Posted by: retired military at November 25, 2012 01:26 PM (LdEvS)

250 I never understood the outcry on the capping/eliminating deductions. Romney suggested lowering the tax rate 20% across the board, in exchange for streamlining deductions. How is that a bad deal? So many people were crying for their precious deductions. Don't they realize that they would keep more of their money by a lower tax rate with no deductions than with the higher tax rate and getting deductions? I likened it to this: you go shopping for a car, and it is $22,000...you get $2000 rebate from the manufacturer, a $1000 rebate from the dealer. OR the manufacturer could just slash the original price of the car to $16,999....no rebates, no discounts. You'd be insane to prefer the first option. Yet, apparently, people do. Capping deductions didn't make Romney a dick, as he did it as a trade off to lower tax rates for everyone. I'd take that trade all day long.

Posted by: Tickled Pink at November 25, 2012 03:55 PM (E1Vkf)

251 FWIW I sent this two days ago -

Senator Chambliss,

I have voted repeatedly for you over the years. Imagine my disappointment upon learning that you have decided to break your tax pledge.

You publicly stated that your pledge was to Mr. Norquist and that you "care more about my country than I do about a 20-year-old pledge".

Sir, that pledge was a guarantee of how you handle OUR money, not Mr. Norquist's. Cutting spending is the only "reasonable" solution to the debt crisis facing our country. I would rather that you hold fast to principle and let the foolish Democrats own their failure.

Of course those tax revenues are the source of your salary and benefits. Are you so desperate and jaded that you are prepared to toss away principle for your own profit while hiding behind the excuse of "love of country" ?

What this country needs is more pledge keeping,rather than pledge breaking.

I hope that you reconsider and do not destroy your legacy by collapsing into failure when the conservatives who elected you need you the most.

Thanks for you time and attention.

it won't matter, but I needed to say it.

LIB

Posted by: T. Hunter - let it burn at November 25, 2012 05:00 PM (EZl54)

Hide Comments | Add Comment | Refresh | Top

Comments are disabled. Post is locked.

208kb generated in CPU 0.1014, elapsed 0.3518 seconds.
64 queries taking 0.3021 seconds, 379 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.