July 12, 2012
— Ace The end of California.
San Bernardino on Tuesday became the third California city to seek bankruptcy protection in the last month and, while no one expects the state to be consumed by municipal insolvencies, other cities teeter on the abyss."There are likely to be more in the future, but it's hard to know, since a lot of struggling cities may manage to work things out,'' said Michael Coleman, a fiscal policy advisor for the California League of Cities. "Some cities may not go into a bankruptcy, but they may dissolve. They may cease to exist.''
Once rare, turning to bankruptcy has become a painful but enticing option for cities whose labor costs and municipal debt far outpace anemic tax revenues....
San Bernardino couldn't close a $45.8-million budget shortfall and would be unable make its payroll this summer. Days before Tuesday's City Council vote, the city of 211,00 people had just $150,000 in the bank. The city barely scraped together enough money to cover its June payroll.
An LA County Supervisor has requested a report comparing LA's finances with bankrupt San Bernadino's and Stockton's.
In other words, Stockton and San Bernardino may be only the first dominoes to fall in California. In Stockton, avers Antonovich, “Rather than matching spending to revenue, they float bonds in order to cover escalating costs for retiree health care, pensions and public facilities and capital improvements. This is a recipe for fiscal collapse.”
They keep assuming they'll have a great big pile of money sitting around in the future. Trouble is, 1, they won't, and 2, the unions have also made that erroneous prediction, and have demanded ever-higher shares of the Big Pile of Free Money that doesn't exist, too.
Posted by: Ace at
10:16 AM
| Comments (211)
Post contains 305 words, total size 2 kb.
Posted by: NewBrunswicker at July 12, 2012 10:19 AM (SWJi1)
Posted by: Soothsayer only reads post titles at July 12, 2012 10:19 AM (9Q7Nu)
Posted by: maddogg at July 12, 2012 10:20 AM (OlN4e)
Posted by: Cicero at July 12, 2012 10:20 AM (QKKT0)
Posted by: Soothsayer only reads post titles at July 12, 2012 10:20 AM (9Q7Nu)
Posted by: tasker at July 12, 2012 10:21 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: fluffy at July 12, 2012 10:21 AM (z9HTb)
Posted by: Jay Bee at July 12, 2012 10:21 AM (Xwgt3)
Posted by: Cicero at July 12, 2012 10:21 AM (QKKT0)
Posted by: Soothsayer only reads post titles at July 12, 2012 10:21 AM (9Q7Nu)
It's cute that you think they aren't already being bailed out.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at July 12, 2012 10:22 AM (sClIO)
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at July 12, 2012 10:22 AM (f9c2L)
Look, we are screwed here. California needs to hit rock bottom in the same way a junkie does. It will be painful, but maybe...just, maybe...will start to shift the political landscape here.
I've come to believe that the Economy like a cake-walk. No one cares how many chairs there are until the music stops. The music is about to stop all over California. The chairs are all gone.
Posted by: Gromulin at July 12, 2012 10:22 AM (SNjPs)
Posted by: maddogg at July 12, 2012 10:22 AM (OlN4e)
Posted by: west coast assh*le at July 12, 2012 10:23 AM (6HDCK)
Posted by: Cicero at July 12, 2012 10:23 AM (QKKT0)
So if I decide to bolt from Chicago to Arkansas, will I be safe from the madness that comes when Chicago collapses, or does the whole country get boned when the blue Utopias finally collapse?
Posted by: Kensington at July 12, 2012 10:23 AM (/AHDz)
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 12, 2012 10:23 AM (d9tUw)
Posted by: Jean at July 12, 2012 10:24 AM (WkuV6)
Plus, it's California that prevents the 9th Circus from being split into a smaller, more sensible Circuit.
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 12, 2012 10:24 AM (kSaUf)
Posted by: tasker at July 12, 2012 10:24 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: Cicero at July 12, 2012 10:24 AM (QKKT0)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 12, 2012 10:25 AM (UOM48)
You know, I always assumed that California was going to "slip into the abyss" in the literal, San Andreas Fault Line sense.
I don't like this metaphorical, financial version as much. It gives too many of them time to pack their belongings and move to other states.
Posted by: reason at July 12, 2012 10:25 AM (RQDhf)
Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at July 12, 2012 10:25 AM (ZhEoC)
Yes
Posted by: Special Joey at July 12, 2012 10:25 AM (+XVQe)
Posted by: Unprecedented Pictures Presents... at July 12, 2012 10:26 AM (FcR7P)
Posted by: JDTAY at July 12, 2012 10:26 AM (a0nis)
Posted by: Kensington at July 12, 2012 02:23 PM (/AHDz) <<<<<<
Sorry Kensington, we here in Arkansas are only taking migrating yankees if they happen to be women of the toasty persuasion. Yankee men are just SOL.
Posted by: maddogg at July 12, 2012 10:26 AM (OlN4e)
Posted by: Jean at July 12, 2012 10:26 AM (WkuV6)
Posted by: Uncledave at July 12, 2012 10:26 AM (nJ32z)
Posted by: Cicero at July 12, 2012 02:20 PM
I think Lakewood is the home of the original McDonald's. Or maybe Paramount, which is right next door.
Los Angeles will soon be doing a Berdoo and sliding under the waves. Thanks to Mayor "we clean your toilets" Villaraigosa and the mindless, felonious libs on the city council, the city has been pissing money away on entitlements, failed "anti-gang" programs -- which have at least created a few mega-rich dudes in the 'hood -- and a whole bunch of other social-action nonsense that sucks up money and processes it into shit.
Leaving that third-world dungpile of a town was maybe the best move of my life.
Posted by: MrScribbler at July 12, 2012 10:27 AM (MQc8e)
We call it The Brown Streak.
We are so boned.
Posted by: mpfs at July 12, 2012 10:27 AM (iYbLN)
Posted by: Cicero at July 12, 2012 02:21 PM (QKKT0)
Time for some fundraisers in San Bernardino....
Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at July 12, 2012 10:27 AM (ggRof)
Posted by: NewBrunswicker at July 12, 2012 10:27 AM (SWJi1)
Posted by: Ben at July 12, 2012 10:27 AM (C2Y4l)
then I glanced at the post's text and noticed it really isn't about earthquakes
Posted by: Soothsayer only reads post titles at July 12, 2012 02:19 PM (9Q7Nu)
Dude, don't keep good earthquake jokes to yourself!
Posted by: Uncledave at July 12, 2012 10:28 AM (nJ32z)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 12, 2012 10:28 AM (1Jaio)
They are too busy worrying about mylar balloons, plastic grocery bags and boycotting Arizona to give a shit about anything else. What a waste of a once beautiful thriving city. It's a cesspool now.
Posted by: mpfs at July 12, 2012 10:28 AM (iYbLN)
Rising public pension costs are one of the catalysts pushing cities into fiscal peril. In San Bernardino, the city's obligation to its employee retirement system rose from $1 million in the 2006-07 fiscal year to nearly double that in the current budget year. In three years, those costs are expected to swallow up 15% of the budget.
And this:
"I think this is the tip of the iceberg in terms of the problem,'' Nation said. "Stockton was spending $12 [million] or $13 million on pensions 10 years ago. By 2010, it was $30 million Â… and will double again over the next five years, unless something is changed."
Now, Stockton has a population of just under 300k, while San B is at 211k. Yet 2010 pension costs in Stockton are at $30 million while San B's is reported at $2 mil for 2012. Something doesn't add up there.
Posted by: GnuBreed at July 12, 2012 10:28 AM (ccXZP)
I always wanted to live in a red state, and I promise not to bring any loathsome blue state political views with me.
Posted by: Kensington at July 12, 2012 10:29 AM (/AHDz)
I've been willing to sell it back to Mexico. Cash up front only.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at July 12, 2012 10:29 AM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: California Legislature at July 12, 2012 10:30 AM (lZBBB)
Posted by: Soothsayer only reads post titles at July 12, 2012 10:30 AM (9Q7Nu)
Wrong, oh Deluded One. The original was in San Bernardino. It was owned by the McDonald brothers. Ray Kroc was a milkshake salesman who went there to sell and was impressed by the concept. He and a syndicate bouoght out the McDonalds. All the other early McDonalds (including the Lakewood one) were under the Kroc regime.
BTW, Mark Knopfler even did a song about it. "Boom Like That."
Posted by: Cicero at July 12, 2012 10:30 AM (QKKT0)
Looks fine from here, serf.
Posted by: Public sector unions [/i] [/b] at July 12, 2012 10:30 AM (sClIO)
I hear that they can pick up some pyramids pretty cheap. Win-win!
Posted by: pep at July 12, 2012 10:30 AM (YXmuI)
Sad it's turned into such a cesspool.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 12, 2012 10:31 AM (UOM48)
Posted by: mallfly at July 12, 2012 10:31 AM (bJm7W)
Posted by: Jean at July 12, 2012 10:31 AM (WkuV6)
Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at July 12, 2012 10:31 AM (ZhEoC)
Posted by: joncelli, heartless Con and all around unpleasant guy at July 12, 2012 10:32 AM (RD7QR)
Posted by: Jean at July 12, 2012 10:32 AM (WkuV6)
California, we're building trains to go to cities that no longer exist!
;;;;
In other news, thank goodness Romney got himself booed at the NAACP to keep the white racist vote from flipping to Obama. Coulda been a disaster!
Posted by: Meremortal at July 12, 2012 10:33 AM (Usk3+)
California was DOOMED by capitalism!
Too many people had jobs over the last 30 years. Now they are all wanting pensions!
Oh, for a world where more people didn't have lifelong careers...
Posted by: reason at July 12, 2012 10:33 AM (RQDhf)
******
Jerry Brown, Joe Biden--
The J.B.s of Choo-Choos.Posted by: tasker at July 12, 2012 10:33 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at July 12, 2012 02:32 PM (mFxQX) <<<<<
Excellent advise, but jettison yer hot women in Arkansas on your way.
Posted by: maddogg at July 12, 2012 10:33 AM (OlN4e)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 12, 2012 10:33 AM (UOM48)
Posted by: Soothsayer only reads post titles at July 12, 2012 10:33 AM (9Q7Nu)
Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand
You need to put Jerry Brown first because he is the one who allowed State employees to unionize in the 70's.
Posted by: mpfs at July 12, 2012 10:33 AM (iYbLN)
Posted by: Barky O'Genius at July 12, 2012 10:33 AM (QKKT0)
I'm finding it overrated. But you're not a woman who "works outside the home" *spit* so you'll probably get a warmer reception.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at July 12, 2012 10:33 AM (ZKzrr)
No, please. Let us sink, or burn, or whatever. It's the only way to get people to elect non-imbeciles, I think.
Posted by: Randy M at July 12, 2012 10:34 AM (vI8R6)
Posted by: Jane D'oh
All lib women are ugly, inside and out.
Posted by: mpfs at July 12, 2012 10:34 AM (iYbLN)
Posted by: Jean at July 12, 2012 10:34 AM (WkuV6)
Saint Bernardino is the Roman Catholic patron saint of advertising, communications, compulsive gambling, respiratory problems, any problems involving the chest area.
Oh..... my....
Posted by: Roemo13 at July 12, 2012 10:34 AM (lZBBB)
I wonder if they need any janitors?
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at July 12, 2012 10:34 AM (sClIO)
Posted by: tasker at July 12, 2012 10:35 AM (r2PLg)
Well, piss on Berdoo AND it's Original Mickey D's. One of the very few things worth saving from the wreckage of California will be In-n-Out Burger stands. Their plain burgers are better than anything the big fast-food chains puke out.
Posted by: MrScribbler at July 12, 2012 10:35 AM (MQc8e)
Great cover up distraction story while he's raking it in from abroad skipping the required donor records.
Posted by: George Clooney's hairwax at July 12, 2012 10:36 AM (BAnPT)
Hey, if Don Knotts can do it in the Reluctant Astronaut so can you!
Follow your dream.
Posted by: mpfs at July 12, 2012 10:36 AM (iYbLN)
California's famed Center for Medicinal Cannabis Research – established by the Legislature to answer the question, "Does marijuana have therapeutic value?" – has now all but completed America's most comprehensive studies into the efficacy of pot.
Over a dozen years, California's historic experiment in medical marijuana research brought new science to the debate on marijuana's place in medicine. State-funded studies – costing $8.7 million...
Sacbee
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 12, 2012 10:37 AM (kdS6q)
Posted by: toby928© at July 12, 2012 10:37 AM (evdj2)
Posted by: WalrusRex at July 12, 2012 10:37 AM (Hx5uv)
Posted by: No problema, Problemo at July 12, 2012 10:38 AM (BAnPT)
Posted by: Honey badger, drinker of mead at July 12, 2012 10:38 AM (GvYeG)
Posted by: WalrusRex at July 12, 2012 10:39 AM (Hx5uv)
67 Who's the ugly lib woman on Fox? Looks like Madcow's sister.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 12, 2012 02:33 PM (UOM4
Sally Krohn.
I think she has a crush on Megyn Kelly....from the way that she leers at her.
Sally also reminds me of Agent Scully on the X Files.
Posted by: wheatie at July 12, 2012 10:39 AM (MbB0O)
Posted by: mallfly at July 12, 2012 10:40 AM (bJm7W)
Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at July 12, 2012 10:40 AM (ZhEoC)
"This is the Donald Trump question," said Carney referring the reporter to the Obama campaign.
"This is preposterous," Carney continued. "This is from the guy who insisted that the president wasn't born in the United States."
Carney reiterated that Obama was an “open book” and had an "extremely sound" record of transparency.
Well, it's pretty obvious by now that Obama either got a "D" or worse in Economics 101, or he never took it at all.
Stupid is as stupid does.
Posted by: Forrest Gump at July 12, 2012 10:40 AM (e8kgV)
Posted by: Pamela Anderson at July 12, 2012 10:40 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: maddogg at July 12, 2012 02:33 PM (OlN4e)
Actually, Arkansas would be a good place to start, sorta like a farm team
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at July 12, 2012 10:41 AM (mFxQX)
Posted by: Courtesy Flush at July 12, 2012 10:41 AM (sw9Gv)
Indiana has those now.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at July 12, 2012 10:41 AM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 12, 2012 10:41 AM (r4wIV)
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at July 12, 2012 10:42 AM (C8mVl)
Posted by: jwest at July 12, 2012 10:42 AM (ZDsRL)
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at July 12, 2012 02:41 PM
So, I think, does Texas. Yet another reason I want to get the hell back there!
Indiana, not so much....
Posted by: MrScribbler at July 12, 2012 10:43 AM (MQc8e)
Audit the Fed bill HR 459
The House Committee on Government Oversight and Reform passed unanimously HR 459, Audit the Fed bill, with all major audit provisions intact. This clears the way for a House floor vote expected sometime in late July.
Posted by: No problema, Problemo at July 12, 2012 10:43 AM (BAnPT)
Posted by: tmi3rd at July 12, 2012 10:44 AM (cxomr)
― Ayn Rand
Posted by: Dave C at July 12, 2012 10:44 AM (cSf9B)
Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at July 12, 2012 10:44 AM (ZhEoC)
Posted by: starstruck romney supporter at July 12, 2012 10:44 AM (oZfic)
Posted by: Jean at July 12, 2012 10:44 AM (WkuV6)
Posted by: toby928© at July 12, 2012 10:45 AM (evdj2)
yeah, didn't see that coming.
Posted by: Berserker at July 12, 2012 10:45 AM (FMbng)
Posted by: wheatie at July 12, 2012 02:39 PM (MbB0O)
Back of the line, bitch.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 12, 2012 10:46 AM (nEUpB)
Or you were a mega bank like Goldman-Sachs.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 12, 2012 10:46 AM (r4wIV)
Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at July 12, 2012 10:46 AM (+lsX1)
Posted by: Cicero at July 12, 2012 10:46 AM (QKKT0)
"Indiana has those now. "
Texas, too. I'm unimpressed. D/FW already has some REALLY. GOOD. burger shacks, both franchise and mom 'n pop.
Posted by: reason at July 12, 2012 10:47 AM (CGjum)
Posted by: Nukie at July 12, 2012 10:47 AM (MVGKx)
Posted by: EM August at July 12, 2012 10:47 AM (zeBNm)
If you think anywhere on earth will be safe when it all comes crashing down, you're fooling yourself. The next great depression will look more like the fall of the Roman Empire. Globally.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 12, 2012 10:47 AM (r4wIV)
yeah, didn't see that coming.
Posted by: Berserker at July 12, 2012 02:45 PM (FMbng)
We didn't set the tax rate high enough. We'll get it right next time!
Posted by: Libdouche at July 12, 2012 10:47 AM (FIDMq)
Posted by: polunka at July 12, 2012 10:47 AM (evdj2)
Who are the idiots who buy the municipal bonds from these bankrupt and soon to be bankrupt cities, and counties, and states?
Why do these bond funders continue to offer money to units of govt that will never pay them back?
I know they think there will be an "Obama-Stash" payoff coming, but there isn't enough money in the world to make that payoff.
Posted by: Boots at July 12, 2012 10:47 AM (neKzn)
Yeah well you gotta remember his formative years were spent in cultures where economics was little more than trading goat dick for cow balls.
Posted by: Berserker at July 12, 2012 10:48 AM (FMbng)
prolly a lot of pension funds and mutual funds...
so they know they have to be bailed out, this is all for show.
Posted by: starstruck romney supporter at July 12, 2012 10:49 AM (oZfic)
It's simple. Once you retire you no longer need to live within commuting distance of places no sane person would want live in or near. So they head off for more pleasant locales while collecting their big fat pensions. Thus the money doesn't even get spent in the local economy.
Posted by: epobirs at July 12, 2012 10:49 AM (kcfmt)
We're tanned, rested and ready.
Posted by: The Visigoths at July 12, 2012 10:49 AM (QKKT0)
Posted by: toby928© at July 12, 2012 10:49 AM (evdj2)
Obama: Mrs. Gump was too white to count.
"Don't stay stuck on stupid" went in one Dumbo ear, out the other.
Posted by: No problema, Problemo at July 12, 2012 10:49 AM (BAnPT)
Nope. They are still in Southern California.Somewhere east of LA.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 12, 2012 10:49 AM (nEUpB)
Posted by: Boots at July 12, 2012 02:47 PM (neKzn)
Bah. We can run the presses 24/7/365!
Posted by: Timmy and Co. at July 12, 2012 10:50 AM (RD7QR)
Posted by: Infidelswine at July 12, 2012 10:50 AM (TOiGX)
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at July 12, 2012 02:33 PM (ZKzrr)
Heather---I'm curious--Where are you? I spent 12 miserable years in the People's Republic of Maryland. I'm in Tennessee now, enjoying a GOP mayor, sheriff, county commissioner, state senator, state rep, congressman, 2 senators, and governor. I don't find it overrated at all, but maybe it's the Maryland experience talking. Moving was the smartest thing I ever did in my life.
Posted by: Shirley Jones at July 12, 2012 10:50 AM (6JkoE)
Isn't the federal gubmint the biggest holder of CA paper?
Just another fine performance from the "servants of the people" in D.C. All 535 of the clueless eunuchs should be held personally responsible for the destruction they've caused.
Posted by: MrScribbler at July 12, 2012 10:51 AM (MQc8e)
Because they are betting that they can get a nice return for long enough that the loss of the principal is trivial. Or, they resell in packages of bonds and have 0 risk.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 12, 2012 10:51 AM (nEUpB)
****
Great minds....
Posted by: Left Coastie at July 12, 2012 10:52 AM (piMMO)
Started? I moved there in 1980 and it was full-bore psychotic then. And it's gotten worse.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 12, 2012 10:52 AM (nEUpB)
The oldest operating location is the Downey site, which was the third overall.
http://tinyurl.com/86yxj2t
Posted by: epobirs at July 12, 2012 10:54 AM (kcfmt)
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - A ballot measure aimed at California's infamous "three strikes" sentencing law may be an opportunity for the state to put a dent in one problem besetting prison officials across the country: the high cost of aging inmates.
The American Civil Liberties Union and other prison-reform advocates point to three-strikes laws (California's was passed in 1994) as the prime driver for an increase in older inmates. Older prisoners are less likely to re-offend, advocates argue, and many can be safely released to ease prison overcrowding.
Is it more costly to let them out, recommit crimes and rearrest them or keep them inside?
Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 12, 2012 10:55 AM (1Jaio)
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 12, 2012 02:49 PM
At least up until a year or two ago, In-n-Out was headquartered in Orange County. Individual town names there mean nothing; it's one big Uni-Town from the L.A. line to San Diego.
The current Big Stockholder -- it's a family-owned company, and always has been -- is a decent looking babe in her 20s, IIRC. How can Fate be so cruel as to make me old and ugly after delivering the jackpot to her?
Posted by: MrScribbler at July 12, 2012 10:56 AM (MQc8e)
The real kicker. Even after filing for bankruptcy, the pensions will have to be paid.
Who's going to pay them? Not the city and certainly not California.
Nope, we are.
Every bloated pension from every liberal controlled village, city, and state will have to be paid by the savers, the reponsible ones, the Red states.
Bailouts are coming and there's not a damn thing we can do about it even if the Republicans have control of congress.
Posted by: Wisrich at July 12, 2012 10:56 AM (hdpay)
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at July 12, 2012 10:56 AM (C8mVl)
Posted by: toby928© at July 12, 2012 10:57 AM (evdj2)
"IMAGINE what a Romney Justice Dept. would look like!"
Well, I imagine the "raised black fist" posters would come down.
Posted by: Nukie at July 12, 2012 02:47 PM (MVGKx)
Imagine they might follow and enforce the laws. How awful!
Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 12, 2012 10:57 AM (1Jaio)
Posted by: tasker at July 12, 2012 10:58 AM (r2PLg)
Would result in frightening effects when dipped.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 12, 2012 10:58 AM (piMMO)
Posted by: Jerry Garcia's Ghost at July 12, 2012 10:58 AM (wxij9)
Downey is right. But it's on Lakewood Boulevard, which always confuses me.
I ate there once when I was a yoot. The burgers were 19 cents, the fries 15 cents, and Cokes were a dime. Seems to me the food was just as tasteless and nasty then as now.
Posted by: MrScribbler at July 12, 2012 10:58 AM (MQc8e)
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at July 12, 2012 10:59 AM (aGX9l)
Posted by: Governor Moonbeam at July 12, 2012 10:59 AM (HBU8E)
Posted by: tasker at July 12, 2012 11:00 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at July 12, 2012 11:00 AM (SDkq3)
Posted by: Honey badger, drinker of mead at July 12, 2012 02:38 PM (GvYeG)
-----------------------------------------------------
Wait until Berdoo and LA run out of toilet paper. Three sea-shells anyone?
Posted by: Soona at July 12, 2012 11:00 AM (wtHo/)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at July 12, 2012 11:00 AM (Dbxc7)
Bailouts are coming and there's not a damn thing we can do about it even if the Republicans have control of congress.
Posted by: Wisrich at July 12, 2012 02:56 PM (hdpay)
Huh, how does that go? Not doubting, but what's the mechanism for this, and how would a republican congress that's against it be powerless?
Posted by: Uncledave at July 12, 2012 11:00 AM (nJ32z)
Posted by: cajun carrot at July 12, 2012 11:05 AM (UZQM8)
OAKLAND, Calif.—More trouble is brewing in California as the City of Oakland looks to issue $211 million in municipal bonds to fill a $426 million shortfall in pension funding, according to the The Wall Street Journal. The municipal bond sale is scheduled for Thursday and will cover approximately 70 percent of the contributions the city is required to make towards the Oakland Police and Fire Retirement System.
"Folks who can make this kind of contribution from their operating budget generally do not borrow the money to do it," Michael Brooks, senior portfolio manager at AllianceBernstein, told the Wall Street Journal. "If they're borrowing the money, it's a sign that they have a weakness in their finances."
Long-term borrowing to pay for current operating expenses....
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 12, 2012 11:06 AM (kdS6q)
Posted by: reason at July 12, 2012 02:47 PM (CGjum)
Best burger in Texas is in Nerderland, believe it or not. Place called the Hamburger Depot. Everything fresh and hand cut onion rings. Damn
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at July 12, 2012 11:09 AM (mFxQX)
Posted by: Soona at July 12, 2012 11:10 AM (wtHo/)
Posted by: Jean at July 12, 2012 11:11 AM (WkuV6)
Thus avoiding answering the question entirely.
So Jay, what about all of us who never went in for the birther nonsense? We still want to see Obama's transcripts. We don't have any goofy conspiracy theory. We just want some proof of his cognitive ability or we'll just assume his only high grades were in regurgitating Marxist catch-phrases.
Posted by: epobirs at July 12, 2012 11:11 AM (kcfmt)
Good grief, you're an idiot. Seems like just yesterday you were mocking Ann Romney's looks, and telling us how you were going to mock us when Romney loses to Obama.
Get your damned story straight, curious.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 12, 2012 11:12 AM (UOM48)
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 12, 2012 03:06 PM (kdS6q)
Wouldn't that be like paying rent with a credit card?
Posted by: Polliwogette, Teahada hobbit at July 12, 2012 11:13 AM (gnzFg)
----
You know what's stupider than that? Buying Oakland municipal bonds.
Posted by: WalrusRex at July 12, 2012 11:13 AM (Hx5uv)
Uh, no they won't. Let Jefferson County, AL serve as a cautionary tale to all those municipal retirees who think the rule of law trumps economic reality.
Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at July 12, 2012 11:13 AM (+lsX1)
Huh, how does that go? Not doubting, but what's the mechanism for this, and how would a republican congress that's against it be powerless?
There is currently a Federal program for employee pensions of bankrupt companies.
Now this is for private funds but it came about as a result of a court ruling. The first city or state that says we're not going to pay is going to get sued and the courts are going to tell the city, state, Fed's that they have to pay.
The Republicans will fold like a cheap suit and approve a bailout instead of telling CA that it's there problem.
Posted by: Wisrich at July 12, 2012 11:14 AM (hdpay)
Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at July 12, 2012 03:13 PM (+lsX1)\
You don't know our judges. The public sector unions can pretty much block anything.
Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at July 12, 2012 11:15 AM (ZhEoC)
Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at July 12, 2012 03:13 PM (+lsX1)
I firmly believe that what makes up "economic reality" is a set of natural laws just as unyeilding (though slower acting) as the laws of physics.
Posted by: Polliwogette, Teahada hobbit at July 12, 2012 11:16 AM (gnzFg)
Posted by: Honey badger, drinker of mead at July 12, 2012 11:17 AM (GvYeG)
----
Municipal bond issue. They can either sell them or use them for toilet paper.
Posted by: WalrusRex at July 12, 2012 11:17 AM (Hx5uv)
Posted by: not the guy who says En Fuego, the other guy, the guy with his shoes on his knees at July 12, 2012 11:19 AM (KXm42)
Posted by: not the guy who says En Fuego, the other guy, the guy with his shoes on his knees at July 12, 2012 11:20 AM (KXm42)
Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at July 12, 2012 03:13 PM (+lsX1)
*
I hope your right. And about those retirees in Jefferson County? Any follow up on them.
I don't live in AL but have there been the local news sob stories about how those retirees benefits got cut and "it's just not fair"?
I honestly don't know.
Posted by: Wisrich at July 12, 2012 11:21 AM (hdpay)
Doesn't matter. Judges can't force the creation of currency. If there's no money, there's no money. You might get a ruling that would favor pensioners over bond holders, but that's like putting a band-aid on a decapitation. For many municipalities, swelling pension payments will inevitably overwhelm their ability to make the payments regardless of shifting priorities.
Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at July 12, 2012 11:23 AM (+lsX1)
Posted by: Sacramento at July 12, 2012 11:25 AM (8g9qq)
There have already been municipalities (in Rhode Island, and Alabama) that have changed the pension payments to persons already retired, because the municipality ran out of money.
There isn't enough money in the world to bail out every local unit of government that has overpromised pensions and free lifetime healthcare.
Posted by: Boots at July 12, 2012 11:25 AM (neKzn)
Am I bad person for remembering when In-N-Out had the "In-N-Out Urge" bumperstickers that a bunch of people cut up and rearranged the letters so they read "In 'er Butt Urge"?
Posted by: David, infamous sockpuppet[/i][/b] at July 12, 2012 11:27 AM (pcnpf)
Posted by: Snoop dog's index finger at July 12, 2012 11:31 AM (Eo54K)
So if a state goes bankrupt, what happens to the cities, towns, etc who aren't in danger of going broke? Do they continue operation?
And is there any precedent for state bankruptcy to follow?
Posted by: irongrampa at July 12, 2012 11:33 AM (SAMxH)
Indianapolis. I work in the city and commute through cornfields. My introduction to the county GOP was a Facebook posting which referred to renters in my town as "trash." And any activity where I might meet women with similar interests takes place weekdays when I'm at work.
I'm kinda used to being considered garbage for earning my own living since I grew up in Iowa, but it gets old.
The beer laws are really stupid here, too.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at July 12, 2012 11:34 AM (ZKzrr)
In 2009 a bankruptcy judge made a precedent-setting ruling. He allowed the city to void contracts with its fire and electrical unions.
“We had to do something to economically survive,” said Robert McConnell, one of Vallejo’s bankruptcy attorneys. “The first fight was whether Vallejo could even file a bankruptcy. The unions challenged this. The next step was about the contracts and the judge agreed we do have the ability to void the contracts. Some settled and we were left with two. It went up on appeal and they withdrew the appeal.”
The city emerged from bankruptcy in August 2011 with a plan that makes retirees pay more for their health plans, cuts pensions to new employees and institutes new labor contracts.
--Doesn't matter. Judges can't force the creation of currency. If there's no money, there's no money. You might get a ruling that would favor pensioners over bond holders, but that's like putting a band-aid on a decapitation. For many municipalities, swelling pension payments will inevitably overwhelm their ability to make the payments regardless of shifting priorities.
Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at July 12, 2012 03:23 PM (+lsX1)
**
But that's the point Gristle, the judges are going to follow the law, not economics. The Bondholders are going to take a blood bath because the retiree benefits are "protected". The bankruptcy will allow cities to restructure benefit plans going forward for new employees but the retirees are going to get the money. Interest rates on munies will go through the roof, increasing the cost of borrowing forceing even more cuts.
It's an ugly death spiral.
Posted by: Wisrich at July 12, 2012 11:35 AM (hdpay)
Posted by: Invictos at July 12, 2012 11:36 AM (OQpzc)
>>46 What California needs is higher taxes, more regulations, open borders and a commitment to the "green" economy that will turn things around....wait what?<<
No, no, no. What California needs is ...
... wait for it ...
... Yep ...
HIGH. SPEED. RAIL.
The Chowchilla Express is departing on track 666. All aboooooooarrrrddd!!
Posted by: Jay Guevara at July 12, 2012 11:37 AM (Wx98x)
Posted by: Brother Cavil presents at July 12, 2012 11:40 AM (GBXon)
Union retirees don't get it - they're going to get boned too. When it comes to paying people who are doing the jobs NOW, or paying the people who USED to do the jobs but aren't doing shit now, guess what? Retirees will take it in the shorts.
The first sign will be news stories about CA retirees retiring to red states with their generous CA pensions, on which they're paying no CA tax. As soon as that demonization begins, you know retired union members in CA are being teed up for a good boning.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at July 12, 2012 11:41 AM (Wx98x)
I wish I could figure out formatting on this site.
Posted by: Wisrich at July 12, 2012 11:43 AM (hdpay)
Again, it doesn't matter. There is a very long list of people that have won civil suits that can't collect because the money isn't there. The family of Nicole Brown Simpson could back me up on this.
Look, the math is pretty simple. For now you can keep people happy for a while by screwing bond holders and modifying retirement plans for new employees, but eventually the growing liabilities to currently employed and retired employees will consume everything for these municipalities with dangerously underfunded plans. Unless the judge has some kind of alchemy plan up his sleeve, his rulings are worthless if you're a retiree counting on actual money.
Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at July 12, 2012 11:47 AM (+lsX1)
I mean really - if nanny Feds are willing to withhold money like highway funds when they believe a state is acting up, why not when it comes to bailing them out? And as I said, this should be done as soon as the state becomes insolvent.
If we want to hold the union together in some reasonable facsimile compared to the principles it was founded on, some structural changes need to be implemented.
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at July 12, 2012 11:55 AM (zpqa2)
Posted by: DaveA at July 12, 2012 12:26 PM (864A5)
One of my neighbors has a firefighter in the family, and he gets to live free at the firehouse for 2 weeks, then gets 2 weeks off. He's paid almost $200k a year and his wife drives a $100k+ Mercedes. The guy isn't even 30 yet. Nobody working at a job like that should be paid that much. For people who call themselves 'working class heroes', this one is too much to take.
Thats easy $100/hr with free housing and its destroying our cities one by one. Potholes are never filled.. services are shit. Most cities CHARGE YOU $300 if you call 911! Thats what taxes are for! 911 is now a luxury because of it all. Taxes go towards nepotistic jobs and crap like above.
Teachers and TEACHER 'ADMINISTRATORS' are paid the same. There are 10 admins per classroom here. What are they doing? Voting democrat, so those democrats can 'collective bargain' with the teachers union.
All public union contracts should be torn up and the signers executed. California will be great again if that is done
Posted by: The Teller of Hard Facts at July 12, 2012 12:29 PM (mLZe7)
Posted by: Mekan at July 12, 2012 02:44 PM (T/L2Z)
Posted by: steevy at July 12, 2012 02:56 PM (Xb3hu)
Posted by: CAC at July 12, 2012 03:01 PM (CZl9J)
Or in this case, as it's cities go so goes the State of California
Posted by: ABouts at July 12, 2012 05:15 PM (h3iQv)
Posted by: Minnfidel at July 12, 2012 05:32 PM (tmbXy)
Californians: Stay the F* out of Idaho. You are not wanted. Go screw up some other state with your infantile demands for other peoples money.
Posted by: Derak at July 12, 2012 08:10 PM (Lyf51)
That's their fucking problem.
With any luck, I'll be out of this stupid hellhole of a state long before then.
Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at July 12, 2012 10:02 PM (4s7w4)
Hyper inflated 70's bay area property values motivated urban/suburban workers to buy cheap land in the valley and accept the fate of 2.5hr commutes to//from work.
Stay tuned.
Posted by: 13times at July 12, 2012 10:24 PM (h6XiD)
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Posted by: real joe at July 12, 2012 10:18 AM (4z0x8)