1 So you're saying Boehner is a SCOAMF.

Stipulated!

2 Is the horse dead yet?

3 and away we go!!!! Wheeee!!!!! It only hurts when you land!

4

Meet the  new post, same as the old post. 

 

When is Ace getting back from vacation??

5 So did you like the movie?

6 Bring on the fiscal speedbump so we can move on.

7 Any supposed "leader" of a supposedly conservative caucus should have known that asking your members to vote to raise taxes was a non-starter.


Boehner is a fool and hack end of story.

8 Bannion! EoJ smacked you earlier today. I defen...I mocked EoJ and as such, I'm now off the Protected Rolls.




Banking on the benevolence of Dear Leader now.....

9 so when the taxes go up, when is it time for pillaging and the burning. I just want a head start

10

7 -

 

It's possible Boehner knew exactly what he was doing, and got the exact result he wanted. 

 

Many of these people have more in common with the other side of the aisle than they do with half the people on their own. 

11 Let it burn including Boehner , and for that matter the republicans in general.Was this plan bad? Yes, but at least it would have made obama  have to respond.  Just once can't the republicans stick together. Imagine if this was the dems.... epic fail... Boehner ... OUT...

12

The dems DO NOT WANT A DEAL. They want the taxes to go up. Thanks to their near monopoly on the media they can blame it all on the GOP.

They are trying to use this to gain more seats in 2014.

13 I mean, a head start to run, not to pillage and burn

14 so when the taxes go up, when is it time for pillaging and the burning.

When the EBT cards start bouncing, that the signal.

15 Now the GOP will take a greater publicity hit because they tried to do something and failed. They'd have been better off doing what the Senate did...nothing. The only difference between Harry Reid and John Boehner is that Reid didn't look like an ineffective jackass in the process of accomplishing nothing. Speaking of Speaker Boehner, let's remember we have him to thank for a lot of this mess. Yes, and yes. /le sigh

16 It doesn't matter.

17 WTF Fiscal cliff??? The tax increase on a person making 40 - 60 K is about 2K after the 1st. Did you think that you could allow politicians to spend your money like fools and then you not get the bill? How Naive, it was for the children and minorities? @k a year means you need to change your vacation plans , not starve the Kitteh...

18 I am still in the SID camp.


SHUT.IT.DOWN

19 Passing it in the House alone was simply a public offer of good faith designed to have something to point to when Obama pushes the country over the cliff.

Agreed, but that word "simply" diminishes the damage done by not passing it.

Sometimes when playing poker you get into a hand you are doomed to lose but you can do well by minimizing your loss. Good players do this so they can live long enough to get a good hand.

Agreed.  I'm sure that's what he was trying to do.  Like Roosevelt in the late '30s, he knew the people aren't yet ready to embrace unpleasant facts, but he wanted to do his best to prepare the ground so that when (if) they were, there was still room to move.

20 maybe 40 years of smoking a pack a day will catch up to him.

21 When is Ace getting back from vacation?? Posted by: BurtTC at December 21, 2012 12:16 PM (TOk1P) prolly never would you?

22 Fucking Romney!

23 Is the horse dead yet? Posted by: Vic at December 21, 2012 12:14 PM (53z96) hehe

24 I am still in the SID camp.


SHUT.IT.DOWN

Posted by: Vic

-----------------------------------

Leaves L.I.B. camp, does drive-by on S.I.D. camp

25 Maybe Boehner should have followed the Constitutional process in the House instead of going up to the White House and accepting abuse from TFG. What did he expect to get from the Marxist bent on the destruction of our country and our way of life?

26 Rush says they want the taxes to go up, blame the pubs, and then lower them later for bama phone people, getting credit for being tax cutters. Whee!!! And the media will assist them in this charade!! Whee!!. Anybody got any extra KY? Sandy? Sandy Fluke? You out there? What is it with the name Sandy these days.

27 Perhaps he shouldn't have decided to pull members from committees two weeks before he desperately needed their votes, huh?

Ya think?

28 "Inside the Meltdown"- http://bit.ly/UUYQSq

29 So did you like the movie? Posted by: joncelli at December 21, 2012 12:16 PM (RD7QR) I'm glad you see the blurred lines.

30

Boehner is a Republican Congressman.  Which means he wants more government, not less.

 

He's working WITH Obama, not against.

 

The sooner you people realize this, the less confusing it will become. 

31 We're at this point because of the deal that Boehner and the GOP made in the summer of 2011 to avert hitting the debt ceiling. --- But much of the driving force behind cutting a deal was to avoid damaging the R "brand" in anticipation of the presidential election.

32 oh goodness rush saying he heard there were never enough votes basically, no one wants to be responsible...

33 He woke up from sleeping well, spent weeks canoodling with TFG, stiffed 4 "disloyal" reps, failed to count noses or get his ducks in a row and got blown off by a few guys.  Fuck him, quit kiting checks for BS.

34 And I'll bet DrewM knows who Trey Gowdy is too!

35 I can't wait for Tammy Bruce's show when she rams her strap-on so far up Boehner's ass that it meets the straight Old Crow on the way down.

36 Boehner thinks working with the JEF will help him stay in office. It won't. Maybe this is the Mayan doomsday, ushering in a new era of splattered republicans. Wheee!!! It feels like being weightless until just before you hit!

37 Plan B wasn't awful from a politcal perspective, but Boehner and the Republican leadership have burned too many bridges and left conservatives and Tea Partiers distrustful of the establishment and ultimately they weren't willing to take a risk for him.  He needs to resign, along with the rest of the House leadership. 

38 time to go shovel for the 4th time today nothing like a little exercise -- all day long While shoveling snow, I'll be thinking about these heavy questions re: Boehner... errr, nah...

39

34 -

 

Heh.  Gabe never quite responded to that one, did he. 

 

I don't mind Gabe's warped point of view so much as the condescending manner in which he expresses it. 

40 I retract my prior belief that this was all kabuki and revert to the belief that this is all bukkake.

41 Rush just said Bonerhead never had the votes in the House.  What a stoopid move. At least put together something, pass it, send it to Reid and Barky and say "we've done it, your turn to at least vote fuckwads."

42 He is not however cut out to be the lead negotiator for a minority that only controls the House. HE has a majority, and there is a cloture-stopping minority in the Senate. In capable hands (NOT Boehner and McConnell) that is plenty of firepower.

43 Perhaps he shouldn't have decided to pull members from committees two weeks before he desperately needed their votes, huh? Seriously, back yourself into a corner, then abuse the people you need to get yourself out of a jam? Out in the wilds here, we refer to that as "Too Stupid To Live"...

44 27 Perhaps he shouldn't have decided to pull members from committees two weeks before he desperately needed their votes, huh? Boehner should be spelled BonerÂ…Â… This guy is in the corner jacking himself off. I say - Let It Burn - let everyone - especially the libs have a really crappy 2013. Nothing will turn around until after the collapse. Conservatives must mount a really aggressive PR campaign and keep Boner out of it. Let Boner keep jacking himself off in the moderate cloakroom of the House.

45 Bottom line.  We have no chance of passing anything better than falling over the cliff.  Obama already suckered the Rs into passing the Cliff bill that gives him everything he wanted, higher taxes and cuts to the military that are beyond the wettest dreams of what they thought could ever pass.  And they get zero blame for any of it, the media can spin it entirely as the Rs fault.  It is so full of win for O.

Reid was the only weak link and we made sure not to exploit that so we should just relax and let it burn.

46 I mean, a head start to run, not to pillage and burn Wimp.

47 40 I retract my prior belief that this was all kabuki and revert to the belief that this is all bukkake. Posted by: alexthechick - Told you we weren't worthy of SMOD at December 21, 2012 12:27 PM (VtjlW) It's bukkake kabuki.

48 my dad used to call that fouling the nest, or shitting where you eat. Not a good idea

49 Rush says they want the taxes to go up, blame the pubs, and then lower them later for bama phone people, getting credit for being tax cutters. Whee!!!

He left out - crash the economy from the tax increase, add more sheeple to the FSA ranks - "between taxes go up" and "blame the pubs".

It's a win-win-win-win-win for the JEF.

But Boehner and Mitch are playing 5-dimensional chess, or something.

50 Let it burn like gonorrhea.

51 Does anyone have a link to a list of who Huelskamp claimed was in his coalition? B/C on that other vote, the spending reduction vote which passed but had some R defectors, guys like Allen West, Jeff Flake, and Jason Chaffetz voted with the Rs and not with Huelskamp, who voted with the Ds. Link here (courtesy of Gabe): http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2012/h644

52 Boehner is a Republican Congressman. Which means he wants more government, not less.

He's working WITH Obama, not against.

The sooner you people realize this, the less confusing it will become.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 21, 2012 12:23 PM (TOk1P)

 

So what political party do you support, Burt? What course of action do you recommend? More importantly, by what means do you propose to get your True Conservative Ideas (TM) implemented in the real world? Clear up the confusion, please.

53 Forget the politics of taxes and bank the spending cuts baked into the sequester and debt cap.  The dems wil be jones'n for some spending and teh Repubs will have a bargaining position.  Or just take the cuts and taxes.

54

41 -

 

I'll repeat this as often as necessary:  Boehner is not stupid.  If he did this, knowing he didn't have the votes, then this is the result he wanted.

 

Boehner may very well be complicit in the move to split the Republican Party.  If he wants to point to the conservatives or Tea Partiers or whatever else he wants to call them, he can set himself up to be permanent Minority Leader.

 

It's less power, but to a guy like him, that may not be a bad thing. 

55

The $1.2 billion in cuts from sequestration everyone wants to avoid like the plague? That was our PRIZE.

 

Hehehehe. I actually like that part. They only did it because they really didn't believe that it would ever actually happen.

56

But much of the driving force behind cutting a deal was to avoid damaging the R "brand" in anticipation of the presidential election.

Yup, and that's a problem.  People want to follow a strong leader, someone they can trust even if they don't always agree with him.  The Republicans would have done far better to force fights with the WH early and often and demonstrate that they were unafraid to stand up for their principles. 

57 Mmmmmm.....Gumbo

58 @57 More like Dumbo.

59

52 -

 

Here's a thought though, how about being for less government?  Is that something that maybe we could give a try?

 

60

I retract my prior belief that this was all kabuki and revert to the belief that this is all bukkake.

I prefer the phrase "Tijana Circle Jerk".

61 56 But much of the driving force behind cutting a deal was to avoid damaging the R "brand" in anticipation of the presidential election. ---- Yup, and that's a problem. People want to follow a strong leader, someone they can trust even if they don't always agree with him. ---- So much of what has gone wrong can be attributed to the GOP positioning itself to elect Mr. Electable. It was fool-hardy. But I don't think we can pin all the blame on Boehner.

62
>>>But Boehner and Mitch are playing 5-dimensional chess, or something.

They are. They just failed to note they are in a boxing ring.

63 Woohooo! CA unemployment rate is 9.8%! We're saved! sigh.

64 besides the Dem plan to raise taxes  , they get to divide our party.

This has been Obama's desire and aim since He Won .
Look, we as a country have never been in Recent times as divided,  with  class warfare, or by ethnicity , or by political party. Now He's being successful dividing within OUR party.

I don't know the answer to this but i wish we wouldn't play ball on his terms.

and I guess LIB is official.  I would feel comfortable  betting  Obama is smiling

and fk the progressive media .

65

It's lunchtime.

 

Suddenly I have a taste for gumbo... 

66 Vote?  In the Senate?  Oh, ha ha.  You crack me up.

67 One of the fundamental truths of effective negotiations is that nobody starts to bargain in good faith until the deadline is truly at hand.  It's gonna suck for people who file quarterly but the question of who pays what tax rate for tax year 2013 doesn't have to be decided for many months.

Boehner's a fucktard, I'll take an unknown random replacement on the chance his replacement will not be worse.

68 where is that KY? Should we lie back and think of England? Scratch that. Well the boning it to begin. Lets brace ourselves. The market will tank, people will feel the taxes, the economy will grind to a halt, the military will be gutted, and then the JEF will ride in on his white horse to save the day by cutting some taxes. Yayy.

69 Citizen Anachronda,, I'm sure those tax rates will finish the boning

70 the JEF will create a crisis an then get credit for fixing it!!! Yeayyyayayya

71

So much of what has gone wrong can be attributed to the GOP positioning itself to elect Mr. Electable. It was fool-hardy. But I don't think we can pin all the blame on Boehner.

Oh no, there is plenty of blame to go around.  Boehner however is the Speaker of the House, which gives him a lot of power and influence.

Personally, I think that he should have forced a budget to be passed back in 2011, even if it meant shutting down the government for a couple of months.  Pass a very conservative budget, send it to the Senate, and then announce that there will be no CRs and no other business voted on until the budget issue is resolved and signed by the President.

72 The military cuts will only back the spending down to early Bush 2nd term levels.  The Pelosi congress in 2006 was when the big increases came.

73 A quick google on site:minx.cc boehner + "debt ceiling" + 2011 shows us giving the warnings of disaster that were poo-poohed then, yet appear prophetic now.

74 Sun Tzu, you magnificent bastard!  I read your book!!!

75 Thunderb, I'm rather squeamish today, but how is the market doing?

76 Hit & run post, but I could have sworn Allan West & his female cohort said on Hannity last night that the House had long since passed the bill to stop the tax hikes and that Reid has been sitting on it.

77 43 Seriously, back yourself into a corner, then abuse the people you need to get yourself out of a jam? Out in the wilds here, we refer to that as "Too Stupid To Live"... Having read about the situation and observed the four members in question, claiming they were abused is frankly ridiculous. I would also point-out that it was highly unlikely they were ever going to vote for Plan B.

78 @54

I nominate you for captain of the 3-D Chess team.

This was Boehners plan all along?

To look like a complete and utter fool?

79 I'll repeat this as often as necessary: Boehner is not stupid. If he did this, knowing he didn't have the votes, then this is the result he wanted. Bollocks. He's a damned fool. That's why we're here to begin with, and that's why he alienated a key segment of his party just before he needed them most. He's an arrogant fool and his miscalculation just blew up in his face.

80 Boehner reminds me of Bob Michel...well except Bob never had the majority. Some people are better off managing the minority position...time for a fighter who knows he has at least some firepower.

81 So what political party do you support, Burt? What course of action do you recommend? More importantly, by what means do you propose to get your True Conservative Ideas (TM) implemented in the real world? Clear up the confusion, please.

You didn't ask me, but I'll answer for me...

I support any right-of-center not-Republicans (Libertarian, Constitutiona Party, whatever) who manage to get onto the ballot in this sh*thole known as Massachusetts.

I recommend anyone who wants less government to stop voting for a party who has increased government every freaking year of my entire life (and I'm 46), and vote for, literally, anyone else.

Your "real world" is a Scandi-like social democracy welfare state - my ideas are not going to be implemented until there is a great deal of pain and suffering - like having to actually pay, in real terms, for all this government. So, start by insisting - to the point of blocking everything and anything that comes through CONgress - that every dime of the spending the left-fascists want is paid for with current revenues. Bring on the f*cking pain, in other words.

I assume your plan is to continue to vote GOP in hopes that someday, a lifetime of evidence to the contrary, they will become "The Conservative Party". Please feel free to correct that.

Meanwhile, LIB.

82 >>>but I could have sworn

They did. Reid has decided to transition the Senate into more of a social club, rather than a legislative body.

83 The silver lining in all of this.....if the GOP didn't pass Plan B there's a negative 87% chance they will pass a gun ban.

84 You watch too much CNN.  Boehner's going to be portrayed as a weak sister no matter what he does.  It's the press, stupid.

85 I do have a question about Why this battle wasn't done before the election? I had thought that Was the initial plan?

86 I would feel comfortable betting Obama is smiling

He thinks he can control and direct the Jacobin mobs. 

He didn't learn his lesson from the OWS debacle when his Frankenstein monster stopped responding to direction from the Whitehouse basement.

87 I would also point-out that it was highly unlikely they were ever going to vote for Plan B. Then why on God's green earth proceed? If your own folks aren't on board, what's the point? How is it that every item brought up as proof Boehner's not an idiot seems to prove the opposite? Guess I just don't get this 'surrender to win' thing...

88 U.S. stocks dropped more than 1% Friday, as investors grow increasingly concerned about the latest signs of gridlock in Washington. The Dow Jones Industrial Average, the S&P 500, and the Nasdaq lost between 1.1% and 1.4% in afternoon trading. Whee!!!! and the day isn't over yet!!!!

89

From what I've read, at least some of the Republican congresscritters who refused to vote for Plan B are upset with Boehner because at the final meeting before dismissing everyone he didn't give them a chance to slam him.  There wasn't a chance in Hell that they were going to change their vote, but they're basically upset because Boehner acknowledged that fact.  They apparently wanted an opportunity to verbally disparage him in front of the other Republican congresscritters.

 

Sounds like arrogance on their part figured into at least some of their votes as much as if not more than principle.

 

And Boehner probably isn't going anywhere.  No one else wants the job, and I can't say I blame them.  A Democratic president and a Democratic Senate Majority Leader, both of whom have made it exceedingly clear that they intend to pretty much ignore the House as much as possible and use the media lapdogs to cover for what they can't ignore?  It's a thankless job, and it's going to remain that way for at least another couple of years.

 

90 You know if all the Bush tax cuts do go away, a lot of the 47% who pay no taxes, will start paying some taxes. The Bush tax cuts took millions off the tax rolls altogether.

91

That's why we're here to begin with, and that's why he alienated a key segment of his party just before he needed them most.

 

Even that is overblown.

 

The GOP has already passed no tax hikes atll that wouldn't pass. This was no tax hikes on 99% that wouldn't pass.  This is total posturing, total kabuki. The difference is 1%.

 

Not enough for anyone outside congress to give a shit about.

92 Personally, I think that he should have forced a budget to be passed back in 2011, even if it meant shutting down the government for a couple of months. ----- Yeah, but back then a lot of folks were busy demonizing Newt Gingrich, so the OMG Shutting Down the Govt Is Political Suicide was a big thing. At least, that's how I remember it. We were supposed to be Reasonable and Unscary so we'd win the WH.

93 I just thought of something...when Kerry becomes Sec'y of State, he'll be second in line to teh Presadentzy.

94 Payrol tax holiday should have never been agreed to, and should have been accompanied by every Repub screeming that SCOAMF wants to defund Grandma's checks. Now we can never raise it again without being 'against the poor/for the rich' and so SS is going to go broke even faster.

95 You know if all the Bush tax cuts do go away, a lot of the 47% who pay no taxes, will start paying some taxes. The Bush tax cuts took millions off the tax rolls altogether. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 21, 2012 12:42 PM (HDgX3) and then the JEF will cut them. Because Booooosshhh, or something

96 One of the fundamental truths of effective negotiations is that nobody starts to bargain in good faith until the deadline is truly at hand. People who pull that shit with me find out very very very quickly that I have no patience for brinkmanship. Fuck it, if you are going to dick around until 48 hours before the deadline, do not waste my fucking time in talking to me before then. There are those who have learned the hard way that I'm not joking about that.

97
Re: The 2011 ceiling deal.

Boehner was betting Obama would lose in the 2012 election.

Another rule of poker is bet on the cards you have.... not the ones you want. 

98 Who cares,they to just blame the dems,everything outta their mouth's should be blaming the dems.

99 I don't really see a problem as long as the unicorns keep shitting Federal Reserve Notes.

100 >>>I'll repeat this as often as necessary: Boehner is not stupid. If he did this, knowing he didn't have the votes, then this is the result he wanted.

BWAHAHAHA!

Were you here during the debt ceiling debate. He layed the foundation for his doom then. So he either deliberately F*ked us and his own caucus, and the Republican party in general or he is incompetent.

Hanlon's Razor if you want to buck it, you need a better reason than "I think he's smart"

101 88 U.S. stocks dropped more than 1% Friday, as investors grow increasingly concerned about the latest signs of gridlock in Washington.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average, the S&P 500, and the Nasdaq lost between 1.1% and 1.4% in afternoon trading.

Whee!!!!

and the day isn't over yet!!!!

Posted by: Thunderb at December 21, 2012 12:41 PM (Dnbau)

__________________

And it'll be up 1% on Monday. 1% drops are nothing these days. Remember the stock panic after the A++ downgrade? It lasted all of 2 days and then stocks jumped right back.

102 Re: The 2011 ceiling deal. Boehner was betting Obama would lose in the 2012 election. Bingo. The entire premise of that deal was that Republicans would have the whip hand at the end of 2012.

103 I have to say that I am fine with going over the fiscal cliff. Let me explain. The fiscal cliff is going to be bad. Very bad. Its going to involve cutting and gutting many things. Which is good. Yeah, I know, defense gets walloped. As does everything else. So, we get the cuts we need. Maybe not in the programs we want, and quite a bit in programs we cannot afford to keep at current rates ... ... but we get cuts. So this is a start. My taxes go up. All my taxes. I am a small business owner. I already pay more thanks to Obamacare, and even more of that crap is coming in a few days. Its going to be painful. I will definitely have to scale back my hiring plans. I may have to force people onto Obamacare as paying for two separate health systems will quickly become untenable. Doesn't anyone get this? This is the bankruptcy strategy wielded by the lefties. Force your opponents to live up to their commitments. Fine. They gave us this idiocy, lets make them live it. So we get tax hikes, expiration of tax reductions, significant across the board cuts in every program. No, this is a good thing. As the economy is pushed hard into a recessional tail spin, I suggest everyone start using the phrase and hashtag #ObamasRecession to describe it. Lets make this stick, and stick hard. BTW: For those loser asswipes that opposed the meh deal Boehner put together, please .... PLEASE ... go fuck up another political party. You don't ever start a negotiation by FUCKING YOUR OWN REPRESENTATIVE IN THE ASS WITH A SANDPAPER COVERED CONDOM IN SO PUBLIC A MANNER. Its just, I dunno, bad negotiation practice? It allows you to keep your principles ... sure. And you will always be a loser because you remain an unallied minority that NO ONE WANTS TO BRING INTO THE FOLD ANYMORE. Go away. Please. Our collectives asses hurt from this treatment. So the deal is meh. This is what happens in negotiations. Deals are meh. But now we get to hammer my business, and the million or so other small businesses like mine even harder, just so a few asswipes* can claim "moral superiority". Fucking A. Lets go over. I'm ready. Have the popcorn, the couch, and our lawyer for chapter 11 on speed dial. Between socons and these jokers ... I don't know how I can even consider supporting the GOP going forward. * and I apologize to asswipes everywhere for comparing these stinking shit-4-brains with asswipes, I know it is insulting to asswipes everywhere.

104 The media will make sure this maufactured "crisis" will be all the pubs fault. Till the JEF saves us.. Merry Crushmas!!!

105 95 You know if all the Bush tax cuts do go away, a lot of the 47% who pay no taxes, will start paying some taxes. The Bush tax cuts took millions off the tax rolls altogether.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 21, 2012 12:42 PM (HDgX3)

___________

and then the JEF will cut them. Because Booooosshhh, or something

Posted by: Thunderb at December 21, 2012 12:43 PM (Dnbau)

______________

Huh?

106 You know if all the Bush tax cuts do go away, a lot of the 47% who pay no taxes, will start paying some taxes.

Preferred language going forward:

You know if the Clinton era tax structure is restored, a lot of the 47% who pay no taxes, will start paying some taxes.

N.A.R.R.A.T.I.V.E.

107 Then why on God's green earth proceed? If your own folks aren't on board, what's the point?

Because leaders sometimes take a gamble by getting out in front of the troops to encourage them and make them go where they don't want to?  He lost, and possibly lost his speakership as a result.  IMO, he knew full well that was the risk he was taking.

108 >>There are those who have learned the hard way that I'm not joking about that.

Good for you.  Unfortunately, this is how the sausage is made.

109 And it'll be up 1% on Monday. 1% drops are nothing these days. Remember the stock panic after the A++ downgrade? It lasted all of 2 days and then stocks jumped right back. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 21, 2012 12:45 PM (HDgX3) fuck off shouldn't you be studying for finals or getting high or something?

110 Boehner was betting Obama would lose in the 2012 election.

Another rule of poker is bet on the cards you have.... not the ones you want.

Yep.

111 soo now that it is known we are powerless  is it inevitable that a move and Eo or whatever will come from Obama re; amnesty?

112 Preferred language going forward:

You know if the Clinton era tax structure is restored, a lot of the 47% who pay no taxes, will start paying some taxes.

N.A.R.R.A.T.I.V.E.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 21, 2012 12:45 PM (xpgUt)

__________________________

Good point. This is something Republicans absolutely suck at....using the right language. Can't they hire a psychologist or 2 as consultants?

113 Joe in MI...our recruiting plans are being immolated as we speak, er, type. For 2013, we're just holding our ground and protecting our brand. Next week, I'll be breaking down the decrease in take-home pay for each employee.

114

Have the popcorn, the couch, and our lawyer for chapter 11 on speed dial. 

Chapter 11 my ass, you will take chapter7 and like it

115 fuck off

shouldn't you be studying for finals or getting high or something?

Posted by: Thunderb at December 21, 2012 12:47 PM (Dnbau)

_______________________-

Testy, testy.

116 Good point. This is something Republicans absolutely suck at....using the right language. Can't they hire a psychologist or 2 as consultants? Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 21, 2012 12:48 PM (HDgX3) good idea send them yours

117 U.S. stocks dropped more than 1% Friday, as investors grow increasingly concerned about the latest signs of gridlock in Washington.



Oh the evil "gridlock" strikes again.  The only people who are "concerned" about gridlock are liberals and the news media.

118 Obama already used an EO to implement an amnesty-lite for illegal minors.

119 Another rule of poker is bet on the cards you have.... not the ones you want.

Wouldn't that simply make everyone you play with fold as soon as you started betting on a strong hand?

120 The media will make sure this maufactured "crisis" will be all the pubs fault. Till the JEF saves us.. Merry Crushmas!!!

Posted by: Thunderb at December 21, 2012 12:45 PM (Dnbau)

And the Democrats know this and that's why they can play chicken with the "fiscal cliff" because no matter what happens the Republicans are the villains and the Dems the heroes.

121 >>>>SO PUBLIC A MANNER

He dressed provocatively. He was practically begging for it.

Let me clue you in. We are going to get nothing from negotiations. The collapse will come. Republicans WILL get blamed. We will sink further into debt.

ALL OF THIS HAPPENS NO MATTER WHAT DEAL BOEHNER CUTS. The President WANTS the Fiscal cliff, and WANTS the crash. Because no matter what, he can always blame the Republicans.

Whether we are full throating him or not. Whether he is Mr. Negotiator or not. NONE OF THIS WILL CHANGE ANYTHING.

LIB

122 Thunderb,

What is your problem dude? Not enough coffee this morning? Sheesh.

123 DocJ - do you have an email or twitter acct?

124

The most effective thing Congress can do is recess.

125

Yeah, but back then a lot of folks were busy demonizing Newt Gingrich, so the OMG Shutting Down the Govt Is Political Suicide was a big thing. At least, that's how I remember it.

We were supposed to be Reasonable and Unscary so we'd win the WH.

Yup, I remember it as well.  I just thought it was bunk at the time and I still do. 

126 Joe in MI, if all the deals you cut never seem to get me what I'm after, even slightly, but always seem to advance the other team, you are not a good negotiator for my cause. That's where Boehner is. Worse, he tried to cover one bad bet with another. Casinos love to see those folks come in the door. They're suckers, and the house sends 'em away poorer every time. Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, etc. Never follow bad with bad. Boehner did that, and got hung out to dry, and it's his own fault and that's all there is to it.

127

Posted by: Joe in MI at December 21, 2012 12:45 PM (3R8wQ)

It won't be that bad.  I got an email from the Secretary of the agency I work with saying that there won't be any immediate spending cuts if we go off the "cliff".  But there COULD be SOME by the end of the fiscal year.  This idea that the "cliff" is going to gut the government is a joke.

128 Wouldn't that simply make everyone you play with fold as soon as you started betting on a strong hand?

Posted by: pep at December 21, 2012 12:50 PM (USJNU)

----

OK point taken..... perhaps "Another rule of poker is bet BIG on the cards you have.... not the ones you want."

Boehner went all in on 3-4 suited.

129 I'm thinking that Hanlon's razor (which should really be Heinlein's razor) is less applicable, overall, than the Dunning–Kruger effect.

130 oh moo moo, I remember our little chat last night. Perhaps you were imbibing and don't. You should go flex your internet muscles somewhere else.

131 For those of you bitching about the deal made in 2011....the deal was made with the assumption that Obama would lose.

132 I love "gridlock", always have.  If they're not legislating, then they're not fucking you more.

133 Wouldn't that simply make everyone you play with fold as soon as you started betting on a strong hand? Posted by: pep at December 21, 2012 12:50 PM (USJNU) What he means is - don't pretend you have pocket aces or the nut straight flush all the time. The opposite works too, if you bet anything, you'll get called ALL THE TIME.

134

CR2011,  CR2012 and the last Debt Ceiling rise Boehner played Mr. Cooperative Adult and still lost the country to SMOD.

Now he's still playing to keep the Speakership in 2014, third in power over a barren wasteland.

Cap'n Queeg.

 

135 @ Hollywood Accountants

Let's see if this works in the sig...

136 In a fantasy universe, Boehner played it just right:

--First, Boehner has learned from prior negotiations.

--Obama wins the election.  The next day, a reporter asks Boehner what House Republicans plan to do.  Boehner says, "We await President Obama's leadership."

--Two days later, a reporter implies Boehner and the Republicans intend to do nothing.  Boehner responds, "We await President Obama's leadership."

--Five days after that, a reporter outright lies in his/her premise, "Is it true the GOP intends to do nothing to save the country from the fiscal cliff?"  Boehner responds, "We await President Obama's leadership."  (No one ever said the GOP intended to do nothing--no one outside NBC's newsroom, that is.)

--Ten days after the election, Obama's staff starts wondering when the GOP will fold, because... they always do.  All they have to do is wait, they think.

--A day later, Boehner says:  "[nothing]."

--Two weeks after the election, President Obama and his staff are getting itchy about the fiscal cliff.  Someone suggests lying in a news conference in order to get Boehner's goat, make him nervous, and spill the beans on what concessions the GOP are willing to offer--without offering any themselves.  Because, it's worked before.

--A day or two after that, Boehner says:  "[nothing]."

--Three weeks after the election, the White House is getting very itchy.  They decide to proceed with the news conference plan, and Obama lies about GOP intransigence, while not offering up anything himself.

--That afternoon, Boehner is asked by several different reporters what the GOP is willing to do to avert the fiscal cliff.  Boehner responds, "We await President Obama's leadership."  And he adds this time, "If you will note, President Obama did not say what his administration or the Democrats are willing to do."  And with that, he turns on his heels and walks away.

--The next day, an even more hostile press hits Boehner with several pointed questions.  Boehner responds, "We await President Obama's leadership."

--Later that day, someone on Obama's team suggests they "throw Boehner a bone" and hint at what they might be willing to cut.  Just to get him talking about GOP concessions.  An Obama surrogate mentions the words "Social Security" in a brief statement to the press.

--That evening, a reporter mischaracterizes the statement, "Mr. Speaker, the White House mentioned Social Securty today.  Will the GOP agree to raise revenue in order to avert the fiscal cliff?"  Boehner responds, "We await President Obama's leadership."  This time, he adds, "I didn't hear the White House offer up any spending reductions.  Did you?"

--At the White House meeting the next day, people are fidgeting like they're covered with ants.  They start talking about real legislation to avert either 1) the fiscal cliff or 2) the coming political disaster.  Two weeks later, they offer a solid package to Speaker Boehner, who does not accept.  Instead, he responds, "The White House has made a bold first step toward solving the country's fiscal woes."  He gives a brief list of the other things the GOP needs to see from the administration in order to move forward with a deal.

Note that Boehner never said a word about revenue increases or anything else the GOP would be willing to do.  Not that he and the GOP are unwilling, but that the proper time for making any such statement or suggestion has only now arrived.  He proceeds forward incrementally with talk of closing loopholes, not raising rates.  They get a deal, and everybody is happy. 

The End.

137 I assume your plan is to continue to vote GOP in hopes that someday, a lifetime of evidence to the contrary, they will become "The Conservative Party". Please feel free to correct that.

Meanwhile, LIB.

Posted by: DocJ at December 21, 2012 12:39 PM (A5uiv)

 

No, not a 'lifetime of evidence to the contrary'. Reagan was in my lifetime--and yours, although you're a few years younger than me. If you're to the right of Reagan--which is certainly possible since he was moderate on some issues--then good luck with a third party. And no, we're not yet 'a Scandi-like social democracy welfare state' although we're headed rapidly in that direction.

 

Thanks to you and the other righteous members of The Conservative Purity Brigade so intent upon dividing the GOP and peeling off votes when it matters most, conservatives will soon be irrelevant to policy making and legislation. Compromise is at the essense of the legislative process. Those who refuse to compromise, ever,  will be shunted off to a dark corner of the fringe somewhere, out of sight and out of mind, ineffectual and forgotten.

 

Doesn't sound like much of a strategy to me.

138 131 For those of you bitching about the deal made in 2011....the deal was made with the assumption that Obama would lose. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 21, 2012 12:52 PM (HDgX3) And that was a good idea? Why not make a deal that would be good for... I dunno - their current terms?

139 Thunder,

Again I ask, what is your problem?

140 Newt had opponents in his own Party that helped shit on him.  It really had nothing to do with the gov shutdown.

141 Purp , yes i knew about this, What's to stop him going to the bitter finish line ?
Will we have any opposition  political party's after this?

srs question?

142 moo moo knows everything. His poli sci prof told him yesterday

143 @ Hollywood Accountants

Dang it - short answer is yes I do. Hope you'll forgive me for not broadcasting it, though!

144 And that was a good idea? Why not make a deal that would be good for... I dunno - their current terms?

Posted by: Hollywood Accountants at December 21, 2012 12:53 PM (n2M+Z)

__________________________________

People who don't take risks seldom succeed.

145

Let it burn like gonorrhea.

 

I prefer the term "nookie that stings," myself.  More mysterious.

146 If the gove was shutdown for a month and all non-essentials sent home, most people would never notice a whit of difference in their daily lives.

147 Thunder,

I ask again, what is your problem?

148 @113 I had plans on the table to get to 25 people by years end in 3 locations. State of MI even met with me to talk about this. Now that we are on a highway to hell ... I just don't know. I am gonna get slammed hard. @114 Chapter 11 my ass, you will take chapter7 and like it (shouting) Sir, Yes Sir!!! No ... wait ...

149
I repeat the post's main point for a few people, the plan B deal was not even going to be considered in the senate.  We lost PR points, but the cliff is what Oblather and the dems want, they wants tax increases on the middle class and want to blame the GOP. 

Don't fool yourselves that the GOP can do anything until the public gets into an uproar.

150 Isn't it possible that since Huelskamp did not have the votes to block Boehner's Spending Reduction Plan from passing, the Speaker thought he (Huelskamp) didn't have the votes to block Plan B?

151 132 I love "gridlock", always have. If they're not legislating, then they're not fucking you more.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 21, 2012 12:53 PM (xpgUt)

________________

bbbbbut gridlock means politicians aren't solving problems. Why are you such a raist?

152 Dang it - short answer is yes I do. Hope you'll forgive me for not broadcasting it, though! Posted by: DocJ at December 21, 2012 12:54 PM (A5uiv) Sure thing, was jsut working on something you may (or may not) be interested in up there in MA for your protest votes.

153 f the gove was shutdown for a month and all non-essentials sent home, most people would never notice a whit of difference in their daily lives.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 21, 2012 12:55 PM (xpgUt)

----

Except for the MSM putting Granny McPherson on every night who saved her entire life savings for a trip to Washingto DC and couldnt get into the Lincoln Memorial because Republicans are evil racist greedy fucks.

154 I'll just drop you a line here when it's ready and hope you see it.

155 We lost PR points, but the cliff is what Oblather and the dems want, they wants tax increases on the middle class and want to blame the GOP. ----- I think you're underestimating the damage done within the Party. When some self-appointed leader of the Conservative Movement emasculates the Speaker for no good reason, it pisses some of us off. And I know plenty of folks who are going to blame this on the Tea Party. That does not help us.

156

ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS IS TO POST A FUCKING LINK!

 

 

HERE, DAMMIT....http://tinyurl.com/bnvthc8

157 87 Then why on God's green earth proceed? If your own folks aren't on board, what's the point? I was referring to Huelskamp, Amash, Schweikert, and Jones. As for the rest of the House Rs, there were some members who shared their sentiments and others who would not commit either way.

158 Have you guys asked yourselves why people are turning against the Republican Party?  People would take you more seriously if you guys were not so dramatic and extreme.

guns in every school
guns for every teacher
arm your parakeet
infants with Uzi's!

you guys are a joke

159 Purp , yes i knew about this, What's to stop him going to the bitter finish line ?

Nothing really. 

ALL means of enforcing law are in the hands of the executive.  The judicial and legislative have no significant enforcement agencies at their disposal.

160 And walter, you are a fucking dunce who is the bastard son of a thousand drunks.

161 I repeat the post's main point for a few people, the plan B deal was not even going to be considered in the senate. We lost PR points, but the cliff is what Oblather and the dems want, they wants tax increases on the middle class and want to blame the GOP.

Don't fool yourselves that the GOP can do anything until the public gets into an uproar.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 21, 2012 12:55 PM (69Mdf)

 

Correct. That's why conservatives should have passed this anyway. It wasn't going anywhere, so it was a free vote. They wouldn't have raised taxes, and it would have put the democrats fingerprints all over the economy's murder weapon. (I think it was the democrats with the candlestick in the parlor)

 

Now we will be treated to Republican obstructionism, and god forbid, the Obama Tax cuts... conservatives are setting themselves up to be outflanked. To the right.

162 I see the drooling cretin known as Walter has gotten out of his straightjacket again

163 I repeat the post's main point for a few people,


 the plan B deal was not even going to be considered in the senate. We lost PR points, but the cliff is what Oblather and the dems want, they wants tax increases on the middle class and want to blame the GOP. ------------------------------

This

Don't fool yourselves that the GOP can do anything until the public gets into an uproar.-------------------------------


Unfortunately GOP has a credibility problem right now. Thanks to media and lack of ability of the GOP to state their case .

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 21, 2012 12:55 PM (69Mdf)

164 As much as the right likes to criticize Dems for being nothing more than a coalition of special interest groups (which they are), you have to give them credit for always sticking together. They are always on the same page. Same talking points without fail.

Republicans never do this. There is never a cohesive message that every Republican from Boehner down to the lowest of backbenchers sends out. And that's why we get rolled repeatedly. And don't blame the MSM for this. The MSM didn't force this vote to fail.

165 Walter is gonna love the collapse. 

166

1. Negotiate a Position that by doing nothing, the opposition gets EVERYTHING they want.. higher taxes, and Axe the Defense Budget.

 

2. ????

 

3. Profit??? (or deficit reduction?)

167 The other point u guys are missing is the selfishness of the extreme conservatives who voted against Plan B just to save their own political asses so they wont be primaried by other selfish Republican dicks who can accuse them of voting for tax increase .... selfishness won; sacrifice lost

168 No, not a 'lifetime of evidence to the contrary'. Reagan was in my lifetime--and yours, although you're a few years younger than me

Federal outlays in 1981: $678,241M
Federal outlays in 1989: $1,143,744M

I'm a big fan of Reagan, but please, let us not kid ourselves into thinking that government did anything but grow, every year, during his presidency.

169

@158

 

Fuck you Walter. I wouldn't own a parakeet. Everyone knows they can't handle the recoil of a .38. Thats why I've been weaponizing eagles.

170 I think you're underestimating the damage done within the Party. When some self-appointed leader of the Conservative Movement emasculates the Speaker for no good reason, it pisses some of us off. And I know plenty of folks who are going to blame this on the Tea Party. That does not help us. Posted by: Y-not at December 21, 2012 12:57 PM (5H6zj) You mean, before or after when Boehner and McConnell stepped all over the incoming freshmen that gave Boehner the speakership. Sorry, Boehner has been a shitty, autocratic Speaker. If he had been at least respectful to the voters and new caucus members that gave him a majority, this "disrespect" would not be happening.

171 AtC says;

>>>>I retract my prior belief that this was all kabuki and revert to the belief that this is all bukkake.<<<<<

I must put in a rare appearance from work just to say I love this woman.

172 big thoughts from moo moo, part ! Is your point that a prostitute would make a bad mom so we should ban prostitution? OK I don't think a lawyer who works 90 hours a week makes much of a mother either. Ban lawyers? Makes as much sense. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 20, 2012 07:55 PM (HDgX3)

173 walter , yes we know  you guys would rather leave teachers schools ,  and Everyone  else  to the maniacs , defenseless against those that STEAL guns and and kill defenseless souls.

174 @ Hollywood Accountants - Grazi!

175 I have so many guns I couldn't stuff them all up Walter's ass. And you could drive a freight train up that thing.

176 Federal outlays in 1981: $678,241M
Federal outlays in 1989: $1,143,744M

I'm a big fan of Reagan, but please, let us not kid ourselves into thinking that government did anything but grow, every year, during his presidency.

Posted by: DocJ at December 21, 2012 01:01 PM (A5uiv)

________________________________

That's about an 8% a year growth. Obama's growth has been about 20% a year. I'd give my left nut to go back to an 8% a year growth in govt.

177 >>Correct. That's why conservatives should have passed this anyway. This

178 Walter, stop fucking your uncle's hound dog.  Canine spirochetes do terrible things to the mind.

179 If the gove was shutdown for a month and all non-essentials sent home, most people would never notice a whit of difference in their daily lives.

True, but those who were affected would get 24x7 news coverage complete with countless tearful interviews.

180 Thunderb,

Again I ask, what is your problem?

181 Is this the Walter now gracing us?  http://tinyurl.com/blvokuq

182 why do some like defenseless woman and children at the mercy of insane maniacs?

183 Bureaucracy, like entropy, increases.  It takes active and energetic measures to prevent that, and/or obtain any localized reversals.

184 more deep thoughts from moo moo LOL. You're conserving Christianity by getting angry that 2 men want to have sex with each other. Dude, if Christianity is so fragile that it can't withstand 2 men fucking each other, it's not worth saving. And here's a little secret...there have been gays for a long time, even when Jesus was alive. I know, shocking right? Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 20, 2012 07:57 PM (HDgX3) he gets a bit angry in the night time

185 Federal outlays in 1981: $678,241M Federal outlays in 1989: $1,143,744M I'm a big fan of Reagan, but please, let us not kid ourselves into thinking that government did anything but grow, every year, during his presidency. Posted by: DocJ at December 21, 2012 01:01 PM (A5uiv) Because of a, "Trust us, we'll cut spending later,." deal. Reagan was the best GOP president since Coolidge, and even he got suckered in on that one. Any GOP leader that takes Democrats at their word on future spending is a fool, or disingenuous.

186 That's about an 8% a year growth.

Like I said, government grew. Every year. Without fail.

187 selfishness won; sacrifice lost

Posted by: walter at December 21, 2012 01:01 PM (a+BXY)

You want sacrifice? Go slit your wrists

188 The GOP was betting Mitt Romney or some other Republican would beat Obama. That was....unwise. This.

189 why do some like defenseless woman and children at the mercy of insane maniacs?

They're just collateral damage in a larger battle.  The real goal is to establish the total dominance of the state over the individual.

190 180  You shit all over a thread yesterday dude.  I'm ready to start over but that's what thunder's "problem" is.  If i just want a pointless argument i have a wife for that.

191 @126 "If all the deals you cut never seem to get me what I'm after, even slightly, but always seem to advance the other team, you are not a good negotiator for my cause. That's where Boehner is. Worse, he tried to cover one bad bet with another. " You don't accept bad deals, you negotiate toward what you need, with the fundamental implicit understanding that you will not get everything you want, but you will get some of what you need. If you don't get what you need, then you stop negotiating and go away. Boehner did that latter part right. Creating the bat with which to beat more concessions out of the democrats? No, he didn't do that so well, as the people he was negotiating with in the GOP are absolutist all or nothing. If you demand to win every hand with a royal flush, you are going to fold quite a bit, and you are going to be disappointed far more often than you are happy. This is what they did to us. They took a "meh" stick and pulled it out of our hands. They should be proud, cause now we are going over. And I do not want to see a single GOPer lift a damned finger to stop this now. @127 "It won't be that bad. I got an email from the Secretary of the agency I work with saying that there won't be any immediate spending cuts if we go off the "cliff". But there COULD be SOME by the end of the fiscal year. This idea that the "cliff" is going to gut the government is a joke." I work with a large number of partners who have government deals whom have been told, very quietly, to hold production/shipment and prepare for 'cancel' orders. Many universities we deal with have massively accelerated purchases and payment, trying to get everything completed/spent before the 1st of the year. All the business out of unis we expected in Q1/Q2 CY13 just got pulled into Q4 CY12 because they think the federal matching dollars are going away. I look at actions a helluva lot more than words. Our revenue has spiked this year in part because of this. I know it sounds strange, but I am unhappy that we've had a banner year because of this. On the Obamacare side, many small folks around us in MI have been either shedding people to get under the magical number, or turning people into part time or contractors to get around the requirements. Elections have consequences, and this ride is about to get violently bumpy.

192 I'm done. Later tater

193 The most interesting detail to emerge from reports about the Conference meeting is that even some of the noes and undecideds were stunned that Boehner decided to pull the bill. Apparently they thought he should have kept pushing for it anyway.

194 I have a deuce, a three, a five, a six, and a joker and I'm going all in. So, what do you have?

195

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 21, 2012 01:07 PM (xpgUt)

 

 

 

 

The ONE and ONLY goal.

196 Sorry, Boehner has been a shitty, autocratic Speaker. If he had been at least respectful to the voters and new caucus members that gave him a majority, this "disrespect" would not be happening.

You haven't been paying much attention to Boehner during his role as speaker, have you?

He may be a lot of things, but an autocrat isn't one of them.  If anything, he's been too accommodating. 

Yes, a few backbenchers (including a Ron Paul Mini-Me and a moderate) lost their favored committee assignments, but for the most part they had it coming.

197 >>>>asked yourselves why people are turning against the Republican Party?

No it's pretty obvious. They have failed to deliver. Your side has done the same thing many many times to the Dems. Need I remind you of the sad fate of LBJ? Carter?  both of whom your side hung out to dry. How many purges of pro-life pro-gun democrats you have done?


I mean really. Extreme us!? Laughable; You put Alan Grayson back in congress and kept Pelosi as minority leader. You want to know why Republicans still have control over the house? Look no further than San-Fran-Nan. Her crazy doomed her own speakership, and your continued insistence that she be speaker again if Dems win the house back is what is keeping Republicans in charge of the house.

And you're bashing us for whipping RINO the Orange a little for negotiating like a wimp when your leader in the house can barely put together a coherent thought inside of a moonbat omelet? Pfffft.

198 As long as Fedex keeps rolling.

199

They wouldn't have raised taxes, and it would have put the democrats fingerprints all over the economy's murder weapon.

 

Fucking ridiculous. Totally magical thinking.

200 They're just collateral damage in a larger battle. The real goal is to establish the total dominance of the state over the individual.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 21, 2012 01:07 PM (xpgUt)

Barry: You make that sound like a bad thing

201
I don't think anything they do helps us Y-Not.  I am also not really concerned with the republican party anymore.  I don't care who gets blamed either, the people of this country must live with what they voted for.

202

OK I finally get it.

 

Now that its all in CAPS

203 and why do some after  such a tragedy not allow the nation to mourn but Use the misery  and pain to instead of time to mourn to fight for more political power in govts hands?

why do they deny that the man was unstable  as many before them and as such STOLE guns to harm the defenseless among us, while not answering to the fact that THEY themselves by their Laws made those teachers and babies defenseless against the madman?

204 I have been kind of disengaged since the tragedy on Nov. 6, but after reading comments on the earlier thread, I have to agree with most of you that Boehner is a mini-SCOAMF. 1. How dumb do you have to be to talk up a plan that you haven't secured the votes for? Especially a plan that *raises taxes*. Especially after you have dissed conservative members of your party? 2. How hard is it to have simply stated to the American public: -The economy sucks, and raising taxes on anyone will make it worse. Historically, cutting taxes has *increased* revenue. (Give examples.) Unfortunately, we SCOAMFs in congress also increased spending -> more deficits. -Tax hikes != revenue -The deficit is $1.3T but hiking taxes on the "millionaires and billionaires" will not even make a slight dent in the deficit. (Provide numbers, say how many days the paltry so-called "revenue" will fund the govt.) -Ergo, we have a SPENDING PROBLEM, for goodness' sakes. -The original SCOAMF is so fund of saying Math!(TM), but since when does making 0.25 or 0.4 (depending on his mood) of $1M make someone a millionaire? Or does the original SCOAMF want to tax wealth? (That will make him popular with the likes of Warren, lol.) -The so-called rich are your employers. Taking money away from them to fund useless and fraudulent govt. programs will adversely affect you simpleton *employees*. (Okay, maybe he shouldn't call them that.) -Maybe add that class envy is immoral. Then pass tax rate cuts and go home. I know I've repeated many others' points and my comment is long, but arrrgggghhhh!

205

there are no  permanent fixes- just fixes without automatic expiration dates. when more revenue is needed tax rates will increase, either directly or by changing the mix of deductions, exclusions, etc.

estate taxes will forever be a moving target, as will gift taxes- because it's "unfair" that some have accumulated and passed wealth on to future generations.  the only question will be a line-drawing one. 

the biggest tax increses in the recent past have been tax increases targeted at funding social security and medicare.  at least those tax increases were relatively flat.  those tax increases generated the clinton era phantom surplus- and those surplusses were used for more gov't spending. 

 

 

206 Oh, and what's with all these back-room deals with Obama? Pass the bill, leave it to the Senate to take it up and Obama to sign it. Why give Obama more power than he constitutionally has?

207 They're just collateral damage in a larger battle. The real goal is to establish the total dominance of the state over the individual.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 21, 2012 01:07 PM (xpgUt)

yes

208 @163 "Unfortunately GOP has a credibility problem right now. Thanks to media and lack of ability of the GOP to state their case ." You win the internets today!!!! Score this one an ELEVENTY!!!?!?! Yes, this is it. We can't sell it, no one will buy it. And this is in part because we piss on it, wipe our asses with it, blow our noses in it. Not simply that our opponents look at it and laugh. So its harder to sell turds than it used to be.

209 What of the Fiscal Molehill?

210 >>>selfishness won; sacrifice lost

This theater act won't save anything. You act as if Plan B had a chance to become law! The whole show was a meaningless exercise, and I'm having trouble feeling sorry for Boehner. This is the bed he made. So what IF (and that's a big IF) a representative decided to vote in their self interests. Their was NOTHING on the table for the US anyway. They might as well vote in their self interests.

211 Dude, Ms. Lanza armed herself to protect herself against the evil forces of "the collapse" as you Debbie Dramatics are fearful of.  We will not have a collapse...it is a slow, relatively painless death like the Japanese have been experiencing for 25 years now....gradual erosion of our quality of life....and then a collapse!  but its gonna take longer than u think.

the point is that the 2nd Ammendment was designed to protect us from tyrannical government....the government is already tyrannical and your guns aren't doing shit about it, just causing violence.

the way to stop a tyrannical government is to stop bitching at Democrats and Liberals and go after the real evil which is the overly powerful institutions: corporations, Washington revolving-door where corporations scratch the politicians backs and vice versa; ordinary schmucks like u and me have been left out of the equation.

212 selfishness won; sacrifice lost

Odd, isn't it, how the people who insist on massive transfers of other peoples' earnings so they can get "free" food, and "free" heat, and "free" education for their kids, and "free" phones, and "free" housing... are never, ever thought of as "selfish".

213

They took a "meh" stick and pulled it out of our hands.

 

No, they ruined your lala-land fantasy. That is all, nothing more.

 

Plan B was not a stick, it was self delusion.

214 Oh, and what's with all these back-room deals with Obama? Pass the bill, leave it to the Senate to take it up and Obama to sign it. Why give Obama more power than he constitutionally has?

Because Reid isn't going to pass or even vote on anything without first getting Obama's blessing.

215 172 big thoughts from moo moo, part ! Posted by: Thunderb at December 21, 2012 01:02 PM (Dnbau) _______ That's MISTER Moo Moo to you.

216 190 ThunderB gets paid -a lot- to argue.  Doesn't need to come here and do it for free.  What made this place what it is- what gives this place the very positive reputation it has- is discussion in search of truth.  Thats why simple contentiousness is so unwelcome here and that cold reception usually takes the form of hostility.  When a strange dog comes in your house and shits on the carpet every time you let him in eventually you reconsider your decision.  On the other hand, everyone has a bad day- once in a great while

217 170 Sorry, Boehner has been a shitty, autocratic Speaker. If he had been at least respectful to the voters and new caucus members that gave him a majority, this "disrespect" would not be happening. Autocratic? For the most part, he allows them to walk all over him. They have also proven that they are not scared of either him or McCarthy.

218 Now I get it, fucking Walter is a paulian. Figures.

219 Moo Moo you are making too much sense. To be a good Republican ya gotta tone that rational, logical stuff down. It's win-lose for both sides. Somehow republicans forgot that. Ya know what they call people who have to worry about taxes? Republicans. Instead of let it burn I'm in favor if making it hurt. Increase the pain and maybe enough will get their eyes opened. Elections are no longer economic because government benefits are cushioning economic shocks. Going over the cliff eliminates that.

220 Yes, a few backbenchers (including a Ron Paul Mini-Me and a moderate) lost their favored committee assignments, but for the most part they had it coming. Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 21, 2012 01:09 PM (SY2Kh) Boehner got sent a massive message from the electorate in 2010 and proceeded to ignore it. If a few representatives got their knickers in a twist over it, that's a problem? This is a Speaker that couldn't even bring a bill to the floor to repeal the effective ban via regulation on incandescent light bulbs under normal rules so it could pass under a simple majority. He is a fool.

221 Autocratic? For the most part, he allows them to walk all over him. They have also proven that they are not scared of either him or McCarthy. Posted by: 80sBaby at December 21, 2012 01:16 PM (YjDyJ) Them who?

222 Yeah, I would say that I hope Walter's chains rest lightly on him but really, I don't give a shit.

223 but its gonna take longer than u think.

The durability you attribute to a social structure under stress is not supported by historical precedent.

224 >>>corporations, Washington revolving-door where corporations scratch the politicians backs and vice versa; ordinary schmucks like u and me have been left out of the equation.

Boy are you just dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.......dumb.
You want to go after corporations with.....what exactly?

Ohhh. Laws. So you want to fight big government by making it MORE powerful, assuming that once government usurps the power that corporations now control (largely means of production and investment capital) that this now monolith of societies power (Physical force, means of production, and all money) will somehow become a faithful servant of the people and be a good government?

I suggest you move to China. They've got just your hookup goin' on. If they are too corp friendly for ya try North Korea instead.

225 221 Them who? The entire Conference.

226 They're just collateral damage in a larger battle. The real goal is to establish the total dominance of the state over the individual.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 21, 2012 01:07 PM (xpgUt)

 

Well said. Based on the gun store mobs in my hometown and elsewhere, as well as the online SOLD OUT messages in just about every ammo category, I think more people than we know have internalized that threat (even if they can't articulate it) and are doing something about it.

 

Finding 7.62 x 39 ammo for my SKS is proving nearly impossible.

227 >>>Boehner got sent a massive message from the electorate in 2010 and proceeded to ignore it.

This.

228 >>>For those of you bitching about the deal made in 2011....the deal was made with the assumption that Obama would lose.

ooooo good plan. Have no fallback position in case a complicated event way in the future you don't have a lot of control over doesn't go exactly how you think it should.

229 new thread

230 213 "No, they ruined your lala-land fantasy. That is all, nothing more. Plan B was not a stick, it was self delusion." It was at least a half-assed attempt at doing something, that we could have used to beat on the dems. We don't have that now, do we? Why not? And what do we have now? Nothing? Oh. Ok. So lets strap in and just go over the fucking cliff now please. I mean, I really don't get enough abuse from the party of class warfare and media partisans. I really, really want idiots who can't negotiate non-perfect deals to make a valiant try to get something done, even if we know it would not see the light of day in the senate. Because the senate had passed that before and we could beat on them for that. Think about that for a minute. It could be quite a powerful stick. Or it could be ripped from our hands and stamped on by those for whom anything other than a perfect deal meeting all their wishes and none of the others wishes are the only thing they'll agree to. What happened? We got screwed, we are gonna get screwed, so lets have the crime fit the punishment, shall we? Grab a chair, some popcorn and some beer. And strap in.

231 Admitting to yourself that gov't is not your friend is like admitting that your parents are assholes- powerful psychological forces combine to help us suspend reason and avoid climbing out of our denial

232 One problem is that when you remind Republican congresscritters that they have the power of the purse, their eyes go sideways and they change the subject. How they can bargain as if from a position of weakness when they possess the greatest power in government is beyond me.

233 No, I want free market capitalism with rules.  You cant pollute the water; You cant lie to the public; You cannot offer a politician a million dollar job after he "Wink Wink, Nod Nod.." legislates in your favor; You cannot offer a politician a $100,000 speaking engagement; You cannot hire a policy sci major (Dick Cheney) as your CEO if you are a highly technical engineering firm (Schlumberger). 

rules (laws) are to protect us against the greedy, unscrupulous assholes

234 Boehner can't win because he thinks too much like a regular person trying to deal with regular people. Do you think anyone who has the kind of real empathy and emotion as Mr. Weepy can deal with the kind of shitty politics we have? He's a good man, whereas we need to match A-class asshole for asshole. In short, we're doomed.

235 Posted by: Joe in MI at December 21, 2012 01:26 PM (3R8wQ) We didn't have nothing, we had stuff, but none of it mattered because Obama and Reid weren't playing along, and neither were their media allies. So Plan B didn't matter for shit.

236 Plus, I hate to say it, but you guys are going down.  Supporting billionaires and now supporting the NRA...you guys are sunk.  Poor schmucks.

It was bad enough when you supported the invasion of Iraq

237 204...lalalalalalalala I CAN'T HEAR YOU HONEY BOO BOO IS ON!!!!!!

238

Hey, a pair of 10s! Split 'em!

Posted by: John Boehner Playing Blackjack

239 And walter, you are a fucking dunce who is the bastard son of a thousand drunks.

1000 * Wasn't me !

240 Hollowpoint @214, I get that. But it's still not right. It's still playing into the dems hands and making them more powerful. I'm not saying I have the perfect solution. I doubt there's any solution what with the enemedia doing what it can to help destroy the GOP.

241 No Drew, the Dems never would pass Plan B.

THAT'S THE FECKING POINT OF IT!!!

242 You're right, democrats would never have accepted plan B, they would have killed it.  But then they'd have a more difficult time blaming going over the fiscal cliff on republicans.  The fiscal cliff is going to be bad, everyone is going to hate it.   Democrats are maneuvering things so that republicans will be blamed for this thing that everyone is going to hate.  If republicans were smart, they would try to make it harder for them to do that.  It's difficult because the dems have the MSM solidly on their side, but the republicans have the truth on theirs, the dems really do not want a deal, they want this to happen.

243
For those of you bitching about the deal made in 2011....the deal was made with the assumption that Obama would lose.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo




And now for our final move in the great game.  We shall nominate Mitt Romney and crush our enemies!

Atari!

Posted by: The Republicans (tm)

244 Yes, this is it. We can't sell it, no one will buy it. And this is in part because we piss on it, wipe our asses with it, blow our noses in it. Oooh, almost had a point there...here's a clue: if your own people think it's a godawful deal and refuse to back it, odds are it's a godawful deal you won't be able to sell.

245

But then they'd have a more difficult time blaming going over the fiscal cliff on republicans.

 

Ridiculous, preposterous absurdity.

246 Sorry, but this is madness. Working for political victories with no practical benefit, all so you can get your next political victory with no practical effect, just so you can set up your next political victory...dear God, people, is it any wonder even its theoretical natural constituencies no longer have faith in the GOP? It's a parody now, not a real party! This is why I've abandoned politics for now, though I do tend to blather on anyway. Guess it's hard to let go of something I used to care so much about.

247

It was at least a half-assed attempt at doing something, that we could have used to beat on the dems. We don't have that now, do we? Why not? And what do we have now?

Nothing? Oh.

 

Shmuck. Fucking shmuck. At least try to get your hands on 1 accurate fact.

 

The GOP has already voted for not raising taxes on any earners (100%). They lost their brilliant, 3d-chess-worthy 98% gambit.

 

They still have 100%. It's 2% away. No one who cares about the top 1% doesn't lump the top 3% in with them. Rhetorically, you're still in the same position. You want to beat them with that, then do it.

 

You will likely continue to pretend that Boehner's 2% under the bus makes Plan B a realistic possibility in the Senate or changes the optics of the debate. It does neither.

248 Boehner is desperately looking for a way to push this off until next fall, just in time to crumble for the election.

249 Mr. Moo Moo, doesn't your argument boil down to a preference to die slow and painful vs fast?  If the best case scenario, a once in a lifetime win by a conservative, just results in government growing slower, then we should just kick back, open a cold one and await destruction.  Because that is where you have admitted we are going, you are just arguing about the right speed to drive on the Highway to Hell.

Lets look at the great 'Conservative' Republican Party.  Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush, Dole, Bush, McCain, Romney.  One in eight, and remember Reagan only slowed the decline briefly.  While Reagan pushed the Soviet Communists over the edge of insolvency he did exactly nothing about the Communists in the USA who kept right on Long Marching through our Institutions, a march that is now complete.  Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Never again.  I will push for a Conservative nominee in the next Republican round of primaries but this time when they nominate Jeb or Christie, and we both know they will, I'm done with em.  Third Party.  Because it won't matter a good God Damn whether either of those losers actually manages to beat the Wicked Witch of New York in the General (they won't) because 'winning' that race is pointless.

250

So lets strap in and just go over the fucking cliff now please. I mean, I really don't get enough abuse from the party of class warfare and media partisans.

 

It's your own fucking fault if you continue to delude yourself into believing that throwing the top 2% under the bus is going to make democrats be reasonable.

 

Plan B was no tax cuts for anyone in the bottom 98%. How the flying fuck does that make it look less like what the democrats claim? It doesn't. It doesn't at all. It does 2%. Nobody gives a shit about 2%.

 

How you can be so silly, I do not understand. You seem to believe if we draw the line at the top 3% the democrats can't play class warfare and claim we're doing exactly what we are doing - holding all the tax cuts up because we want a deal that includes the top 3%.

251 Plus, I hate to say it, but you guys are going down. Supporting billionaires and now supporting the NRA...you guys are sunk. Poor schmucks.

It was bad enough when you supported the invasion of Iraq

Posted by: walter at December 21, 2012 01:29 PM (a+BXY)

 

Er, enough Democrats in both the House and the Senate supported the Iraqi invasion to give congressional approval to the undertaking. Unlike President Obama, President Bush did not do an end-run around the legislative branch (and the Constitution) to pursue a major foreign policy objective. Libya, anyone?

 

Supporting billionaires? I dunno. Ask George Soros and William Buffet about that since both are huge Obama supporters. I assume that support runs both ways. And how about John Corzine, former state governor and big Obama campaign bundler? He somehow misplaced a billion dollars of other peoples' money and, for some unfathomable reason, hasn't been prosecuted. Does he count as a billionaire if there's a billion dollars missing and he was the last person to hold it in his possession?

 

Supporting the NRA? Last I heard, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D) is a big NRA proponent, so much so that he's received the NRA's coveted endorsement in every election year of his career.

 

You got anything else, sport?

252 Timr for new leadership in the House.  EOS

253 137

Thanks to you and the other righteous members of The Conservative Purity Brigade so intent upon dividing the GOP and peeling off votes when it matters most, conservatives will soon be irrelevant to policy making and legislation.

Posted by: troyriser at December 21, 2012 12:53 PM (vtiE6)

"Purity!"  Everyone take a drink!

254

peeling off votes when it matters most,

 

Empty posturing matters MOST.

255 Fire Boehner.  Fire him and let's go over the freaking cliff.  I'm tired of the current "Republican leadership".  Fire him, fire the rest of them, let the Democrats have complete control.  Let. It. Burn.  I'm sick of seeing his sad-sack face all over the news-- does anyone in the Republican party have any freaking BALLS???  So let the Democrats and Obama have everything they want.  Let it BURN.

256 None of this crap bothers me anymore.  I've pledged to vote West in 2016, so all I care about is the down-ticket stuff.

The Republican party can show up if it wants, but I don't owe them a damn thing.  It's not so much a L.I.B. strategy as it is a, "fuck it, it's already over" strategy. I'm just working on surviving the downfall, and the good news is, I will, SMOD willing.

And by the way, if we all vote West, we don't need to bother with some stupid third party crap.  Get him in office, and make the party afterward.

257

Remember: It's not about anything concrete or actual. It is about the emotion. It is about finding a way to blame everything on the Purity Brigade so you don't have to feel any dissonance and continue to live in denial.

 

What other excuse can there be? I'm all ears. All I keep getting is this fantasy where Harry Reid caves and votes for cutting the tax hikes on 98% of the economy because of the optics of holding out for the top 3%.

258 ""Purity!" Everyone take a drink!"
Posted by: Big McLargeHuge at December 21, 2012 01:56 PM (YuNMe)

Amen.  That's the only thing reasonable about that label.

259 Remember: It's not about anything concrete or actual. It is about the emotion. It is about finding a way to blame everything on the Purity Brigade so you don't have to feel any dissonance and continue to live in denial.

What other excuse can there be? I'm all ears. All I keep getting is this fantasy where Harry Reid caves and votes for cutting the tax hikeson 98% of the economy because of the optics of holding out for the top 3%.

Posted by: Entropy at December 21, 2012 01:59 PM (TULs6)

 

I'm not blaming everything on the Conservative Purity Brigade, but I am faulting them for their intransigence and unwillingness to offer a unified front to a pack of hardcore Marxist weasels intent upon the destruction of the Republic. Those of us who tend to vote Republican agree on more than we disagree. We either hang together or hang separately. It's that simple.

260

More of the same from troyriser. Unity for posturing sakes is apparently paramount.

 

Well... then why didn't Boehner drop the 2% sop and just vote to stop all tax hikes and keep the whole caucus united then?

261 "Well... then why didn't Boehner drop the 2% sop and just vote to stop all tax hikes and keep the whole caucus united then?"
 Posted by: Entropy at December 21, 2012 02:30 PM (TULs6)

Yep.  What would be the point of caving together?

262

What would be the point of caving together?

 

Caving to the democrats with 0 democrat support and without democrats even accepting the cave.

 

But we need unity, because... um, we're trying to avoid blame for doing what we're doing.

 

Which we appear to be doing specifically just to avoid blame for doing it.

263 Reid is an obstructionist. He does look foolish in my opinion, because "he does nothing". Isn't this unlawful to not produce a budget for 4 years & then  to table all the bills that have been sent up there to be voted on? They can Boehner all they want. but Reid just says no to everything per Obama, so where does this leave the American People? We are the ones that get hurt by all their destructive behavior. 

264 More of the same from troyriser. Unity for posturing sakes is apparently paramount.

Well... then why didn't Boehner drop the 2% sop and just vote to stop all tax hikes and keep the whole caucus united then?

Posted by: Entropy at December 21, 2012 02:30 PM (TULs6)

Yep. What would be the point of caving together?

Posted by: K-Bob at December 21, 2012 02:37 PM (fklmM)

 

You're missing my point, both of you. I'll spell it out: for better or worse, Boehner is currently Speaker. This is not a lifetime appointment. He can be removed by means of a confidence vote held by the majority Republican caucus. But for now, this moment, he has the job. In order to hold our own against a Democratic majority in the Senate and (obviously) Democratic control of the Executive branch, Boehner needs to maximize his bargaining position, which means he absolutely must have the votes (and support) of GOP members of the House. He's not getting that support. The Republican Speaker of the House is not getting unified Republican support because some of its members are self-seeking, short-sighted assholes who want to be able to say they didn't go along with a tax increase. You know, because they're so principled and pure. Like you.

 

Let it burn, my ass. That whole point-of-view is fucked up from the start. It's just an excuse for doing nothing. When the country's in trouble, you do what you can to make it right.

265 I say if Gingrich had to go for so called screwing things up and not getting along then Boehner should be held to the same.

266 @250 "It's your own fucking fault if you continue to delude yourself into believing that throwing the top 2% under the bus is going to make democrats be reasonable." I don't believe that. ... "How you can be so silly, I do not understand. You seem to believe if we draw the line at the top 3% the democrats can't play class warfare and claim we're doing exactly what we are doing - holding all the tax cuts up because we want a deal that includes the top 3%." Idiot. I am in the top 2%. I am watching a bunch of severely fucked in the brain asswipes legislate my hard work away from me. I am watching the people I employ vote these asswipes into power to take from me what I have FUCKING BLED to build. I am watching clueless twits in what should be my own party state some of the stupidest ... most inane things I have ever seen, because they wanted to make a point, versus fashioning an imperfect weapon we could use. Yeah, well, I see why we lost. Go over the fucking cliff. I am done with this shit. So when they come to my door with pitchforks for my money, they will find I don't have any anymore.

267 @253 "Purity!" Everyone take a drink! Doesn't take away from the fact that the poster is right. @255 "Fire Boehner. Fire him and let's go over the freaking cliff. I'm tired of the current "Republican leadership". Fire him, fire the rest of them, let the Democrats have complete control. Let. It. Burn. I'm sick of seeing his sad-sack face all over the news-- does anyone in the Republican party have any freaking BALLS??? So let the Democrats and Obama have everything they want. Let it BURN." Mia Love has more balls than Boehner. I agree. Toss him. Toss them all. If we don't stop the cliff, we get actual spending cuts. Not where we want them precisely, but its a goddamned start. So lets take the red pill and be done with it. Seize it and say MOAR PLEASE. Seriously. Over the cliff we go. No one stop it. Let it happen.

268 guess he didn't have all his frogs in the wheelbarrow after all.....great analysis drew

269 14 you nailed it...now i can move to the next thread

270 meh

271 "Sorry, but this is madness. Working for political victories with no practical benefit, all so you can get your next political victory with no practical effect, just so you can set up your next political victory...dear God, people, is it any wonder even its theoretical natural constituencies no longer have faith in the GOP? It's a parody now, not a real party! "

This.


Does the concept "circular firing squad" ring any bells in this here audience? Seriously, the whole LIB is a juvenile goddamn emoshit pose. Just saying.