And yet all our media wants to focus on are hoodies and rubbers.  The MFM indeed.

God bless his family.

Focus.

Yes, there are a dozen things going on today.  Yes, there are some that are important, but what is needed now is focus.  Breitbart had focus when necessary.  Ace had focus when the subject was important to him – like when he would post 6 articles in a row hammering on Sarah Palin.

Today, the focus should be on MSNBC selectively and deceptively editing the Zimmerman tape of his arrival at the police station.  By cutting the tape a moment before the police officer looks at ZimmermanÂ’s head, it is obvious they are trying to mislead the public to their (and ABCÂ’s) narrative that Zimmerman didnÂ’t have an injury and therefore was lying.  This deception is blatant, unmistakable and easily proven by simply playing the full tape.

ItÂ’s up to the alternative media, popular websites like this and talk radio along with FOX to get outraged at this egregious effort to mislead.  When the opportunity to show just how deceptive and race-baiting MSNBC is comes along, you need to push everything else to the side and hammer on it.

Focus.  It will help the cause more to take down some MSNBC producers now and scare the rest by exposing this.

We always seem to lose those we can least afford to...

Posted by: jwest at March 29, 2012 10:08 AM (FdndL)

Agreed.  Someone needs to write an article titled "MSNBC Caught trying to manufacture race riot" and then tweet the ever loving shit out of it.

<i>Specialist Weichel leaves behind his fiance and three children. </i>

It's lovely that he saved a little girl, I can't imagine how anyone could watch her get run over, but I really don't think it's worth it.

She'll probably be either sold to some fat geriatric bastard or else stoned to death for having fingers or something.

Life is always worth saving.

At the cost of other lives, I would say that's just flatly incorrect.

Would she be worth saving at the cost of 15 marine's lives?

Is this a joke?

Please tell me this is a joke.

What an utter & complete waste of an American life.

Both Dubya and Jug Ears ought to be lined up against a wall and <remainder of sentence censored on account of I don't wanna get a knock on the door from the Secret Service>.

Just a complete waste.

WTH is our society coming to when we send off our best & bravest to throw away their lives purposelessly like this?

"best bravest" = "best AND bravest"

But some genius decided we can't use the ampersand.

"utter complete" = "utter AND complete"

See ampersand, as above.

[F*ck - Americans can't even do code parsing correctly anymore. Turn out the lights; the party's over.]

Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.

Golda Meir....

But whats truly sad... is that WE love THEIR children, more than they hate us...

"Yes."

Hey Allen G, brave internet warrior fighting the good fight from your mother's basement: How about if YOU go over there to LesserShitIstan and throw your precious life away for some little girl who [with absolute AMPERSAND total certainty] is going to grow up to be a raving Islamic lunatic that would just as soon slit your throat as give you the time of day?

15 Marines?

How about 15 Allen G's?

Entropy and Emmanuel Goldstein, I trust that no one ever ever ever takes the same view of the value of one of your family members that you have of that little girl. 

Would she be worth saving at the cost of 15 marine's lives?

Yes.

"People are not potatoes."

So seriously though, are you knee jerk in favor of saving anything that can be saved regardless of cost?

Do we start a war and lose 5000 marines if we think we can save 1 child from Assad?

Do you generally support the kind of 'if this saves even 1 hypothetical life it's worth it!' rhetoric that justifies eleventy-billion dollar boondoggles and invasively expands federal power?

"clean up on 19......"

F*ck you.

I mean, seriously: F*ck you.

How about we send 15 PhoenixGirls over to LesserShitIstan to have their labia & clitorises excised and to have them fitted for burlap sacks with eye-slits to wear over their heads?

Seriously: F*CK YOU!!!

"labia clitorises" = "labia AMPERSAND clitorises"

F*cking code parser acts like it was written by a G*d-d*mned muslim.

Entropy and Emmanuel Goldstein, I trust that no one ever ever ever takes the same view of the value of one of your family members that you have of that little girl.

That's pretty much nonsense bullshit. I will reiterate, no one wants to watch a little girl get run over. This man's actions were very decent and humane and easily justified on a personal level.

Doesn't make it a good trade though.

In the spirit of that demogogous question, people are dying in Darfur right now. Should we send your father there to see how many people he can save before he gets popped?

Have to agree with Emmauel on this one. Look at the picture of Spc. Weichel and his kids. They now have to grow up without a father......for who? For what? It's certainly a credit to Spc. Weichel and our forces in general that we twist and turn to avoid civilian casualties. unmfortunately, time and again our erstwhile friends don;t seem to care.

The Afghan "security" forces are now assasinating our troops, the phony president is calling them demons. We should leave and then carpet bomb what little is worth bombing over there.

"I trust that no one ever ever ever takes the same view of the value of one of your family members that you have of that little girl."

There's another moronette who needs to see an Islamic butcher about that whole labia and clitoris removal thing [performed with all the hygiene and sanitation of a 7th Century LesserShitIstan goat farm].

THESE CRETINS AREN'T WORTH A SINGLE AMERICAN LIFE.

Damn. Such a sadness, to lose such a good man.

Rest in Peace, Specialist Weichel.

I will be attending SGT Weichel's wake on Sunday.  For the smallest state in the union, Rhode Island has contributed much in the way of blood and sacrifice from its Guard and Reserve component Soldiers.  SGT Weichel obviously lived the Army values and the Warrior Ethos.  He died saving a life rather than taking one.

God bless him and his family.

Yes. One little girl's life is worth 15 of mine. Or 100 of mine. I'm certain Spc. Weichel thought the same way. I'm relatively certain all (or the vast, vast majority) of our Soldiers (and Marines, and Sailors, and Airmen) feel the same way.

Then in all seriousness, WTF are you doing arguing here? Little girls are getting killed all over the planet.

If we are to be bleeding heart about it, any 1 life, anywhere, anytime, etc. etc., why are you not in Darfur fighting the Sudanese? Why are you not running in China running an underground railroad for female babies?

If you actively want to trade your life for a half dozen children, there are places all over the world where you can make that purchase, if you go looking for it.

Yet oddly, you don't seem to be LOOKING for it. So, I don't believe you.

Weichel, I don't think was looking for it. He saw a girl in danger, he reacted to save her, as it happens he didn't make it.

But the US, as a group, is basically 'looking for it' (things like this) in Afghanistan in the first place.

54 I wonder how soon Karzai, who has called our troops "satanists" and "demons" will be thanking this young man's family?

Karzai? ....*spits*

And I doubt that the Afghan people ever even hear about the many events such as this. ....The Afghan media is as bad as ours.

I'd join the war just to get to drive like a complete ass hole

http://scoamf.us/sy

Human life is precious. Young life- innocent life- is specially precious. It should be preserved.

I agree with that as an ideological principle, but in a place like Afghanistan, it's a non-starter.

It can't be applied. Hell, we're there to kill people.

You've got 13-year-olds running around with AK's, arguably because they've never been tought anything different.

And that happened there before we were there, it happned there while we were there, and it will continue to happen there after we are gone.

Posted by: Entropy at March 29, 2012 10:44 AM (TULs6)

Entropy, that's not the point.  This serviceman wasn't LOOKING to trade his life for this child.   He saw she was in danger and he reacted.   He didn't do it because she was an AFGHAN girl.   He wasn't ordered to rescue little children who were in danger.   He did it because he was a good man who saw a child who needed his help.   I have no doubt he would have done the same thing if    he had been stateside and the child in question had been a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, American-as-apple-pie toddler at a Fourth of July parade.

This has nothing to do with him being in Afghanistan when this happened, or the ethnicity of the person he saved.  It's that he had the heart to risk himself for someone else.  Respect that.

If Spc. Weichel wasn't the type of man that would unthinkingly do everything he could to protect a little girl from certain death, then NO, it wouldn't be a fair trade.

It doesn't matter where this child is from or what she grows up to be. This incident speaks to HIS worth alone, as a man.  Can't you jerkoffs just celebrate that we still live in a country that produces such men?

Not everything is about your goddamned political opinion.

Rest in Peace, troop.  You did good.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 29, 2012 10:53 AM (G/8zE)

Hear hear, EoJ! 

Now I'll be thinking about this all day long.  Which I cannot complain about, sitting here in my comfy office building.  Well said, Empire of Jeff.  He did do good, and makes me even prouder of our military.

well in the entropy and emmanuel world view...we shouldn't have done that......

That's not true. I am not saying 'he should not have done it', I am saying 'it is not worth it'.

I want Weichel back.

I completely understand how nobody decent is going to watch a little girl get run over.

But I think, more's the reason why our soldiers shouldn't be there, finding themselves in such situations.

Before the next Afghanni girl wonders in front of a tank and demands another sacrifice, lets just leave.

I don't think some of you realize how cheap life is there.

If the idea is we're going to turn Afghanistan into Conneticut, it's hopeless. And if soldiers are dying for that, it's not going to make Afghanistan nice, it's not going to make Afghanistan Conneticut, it's just going to add a bunch of US soldiers lives to Afghanni lives on the balance sheet, in the ongoing atrocities that will occur there, and in 3rd world shitholes all over the planet. As it always has been, as it always will be.

Oh man...A sad, heroic story turned into pissing contest. This is why we can't have nice things around here!

**

Godspeed Spc. Dennis Weichel

It doesn't matter where this child is from or what she grows up to be. This incident speaks to HIS worth alone, as a man. Can't you jerkoffs just celebrate that we still live in a country that produces such men?

I'd rather keep them, then celebrate their noble and selfless deaths.

We could have still had this wonderful man amongst us.

Maybe you "jackasses" should read the entire comment instead of cherry-picking the line that offends you.

I did watch the video. I did acknowledge his selfless act. I'm sorry, but I think it's sad that scenes like this have to happen for the benefit of of 7th centruy savages who could care less if they live or die. So yes, I do value American lives more than Afghan lives. Sue me. They hate us and always will.

But if the mission is still to disrupt the Taliban and other terrorists' ability to plan and execute attacks against Americans- especially on American soil- that is still a worthy mission.

I think we have amply blasted the hell out of them and it's safe to leave them squabbling among the ashes.

Yeah. He makes it really hard for me to argue with.<<<

He's a man, and he's making a man's decision.  I want no less for my son when he's ready to choose for himself.

If I had a son, he'd look like SGT Weichel.

It's not your call.

Posted by: mama winger at March 29, 2012 11:07 AM (P6QsQ)

Bingo, mama winger.

If you haven't done it recently, please do pass along the Horde's many thanks to your son for his service. 

o/t--stuck at home waiting for a flight while the old man has Teh Fox on...the Royal Scuker of C*ck is in the Rose Garden coursing through each and every fallacy of inductive logic to deconstruct the rise in oil prices.  I hope Dick Cheney is invited to Mitt Romney's inauguration so that he can pecker slap Obama the nanosecond after the oath is complete. 

IRT the current thread--I'll withhold my opinion of the Arc of Instability conflicts to pass along my deep appreciation for Specialist Weichel's bravery. 

To the extent that there will always be SOME number of goobers planning attacks against America in Afghanistan... well, there will always be some number of goobers planning attacks in Afghanistan.

I do not believe that any length of occupation and warfare will reduce that number to 0, at least not this century.

We have certainly stuck some wrenches in their wheels. They are a shadow of their former selves, in terms of resources and threat level.

At this point, what difference does it make if the nutjob camp is in Afghanistan, when regardless, there WILL BE and ARE equivalent nutjob camps in Pakistan, in Turkmenistan, Uzebekistan, Iran, Somalia, Yemen, Indonesia, etc. etc. etc.

You can't do some idealistic "zero tolerance" thing because the concept - as illustrated by many school policies - is basically anti-reason. It's not realistic.

Posted by: Thatguy at March 29, 2012 11:07 AM (ZPlWT)

-----

If the Taliban doesn't decide to make an example of her, she's probably looking forward to not being taught anything, will be sold to the highest bidder, and all the joy that comes with that.

Posted by: bob dole at March 29, 2012 11:10 AM (G6kli)

;;;

Interesting that you capitalize MONEY but not lives in your little tantrum.

114

Saw that and laughed. He's going to raise the price of gasoline. Ha. Dumb ass.

Posted by: Voluble at March 29, 2012 11:13 AM (C9bRU)

I heard talk about that this morning on the radio while driving to work.  All I could do was scream at the radio, "Sure, get rid of the tax breaks for oil companies.  RIGHT.  And where the hell do you expect this extra revenue to come from when they have to shutter most of their fields and refineries and exploratory     branches because they can't fucking AFFORD them anymore,  YOU UNBELIEVABLE ASSHOLE MOUTHBREATHER!"

He saved the life on purpose. He died by accident. There are some twisted and weird people around here.

It's not your call.

No, it's the governments call.

Many people choose to serve because they want to serve our country. Part of that service as they envision it, is going where they are told to go, and doing what they are told to do, wherever it is decided they are needed, regardless of their personal views.

It is "their call" to join the military, but lets not act like Weichel is the one who wants to occupy Afghanistan.

They're not going to abandon their service while our forces are still there, but many of our men would be pleased as punch to come home.

I don't want to rile anyone up. I consider most of you, if not friends, good internet company. If you think I'm trying to demean any of the troops, I apologize. But, I just can't help thinking that, increasingly, these sacrifices are being made in vain. I blame the DOD and especially the CiC.

Mama and anyone else with relatives who are serving or have served, you have my profound gratitude. It may not be my call, but the people whose call it is leave a lot to be desired.

Posted by: bob dole at March 29, 2012 11:10 AM (G6kli)

Let me guess: A Paulian? The fact that you can't seem to grasp that the question of whether we should have tried to rebuild Iraq has nothing to do with the question of whether American troops are more likely to save civilians from death than murder them is a big clue, as is your apparent inability to grasp the fact that "lie" means a deliberate untruth, not a judgement call that differs from your own.

I'd rather keep them, then celebrate their noble and selfless deaths.

We couldhave still hadthis wonderful man amongst us.

You. Don't. Get. That. Choice.

SPC Weichel is already dead.  He made his choice.  Now you have a choice to make.

You can honor his sacrifice or you can piss and moan that life isn't fair and he'd be better off alive, because you're an unhappy bastard who doesn't understand the bittersweet triumph of the human soul in instances like this.

SPC Weichel didn't do the right thing for any other reason than that he was A Man Who Does The Right Thing, No Matter What.

Honor that.  The rest of that bullshit doesn't matter in his case.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter at March 29, 2012 11:10 AM (4df7R)

--------

Add another grateful moron to that thanks.

Posted by: Entropy at March 29, 2012 11:07 AM (TULs6)

--

Exactly. Unfortunately it is still 10 years too late to be leaving. [Bush lied. He said we wouldn't do nation-(non)building. But 9/11 changed 'everything' including the elimination of the ability ability to reason.]

Posted by: Entropy at March 29, 2012 11:17 AM (TULs6)

I don't want to speak for mama winger here, Entropy, but when she said "it's not your call," I don't believe she was talking about Spc. Weichel's deployment to Afghanistan.  She was talking about his choice to save the girl.  There is a very big difference.

If I'm incorrect, MW, by all means smack me around a bit. 

In the spirit of that demogogous question, people are dying in Darfur right now. Should we send your father there to see how many people he can save before he gets popped?

Entropy, my father, who is getting to the point he can barely walk from his Parkinson's, would happily, willfully, nay, gleefully hurl himself in front of a vehicle to save a little girl. So would my mother. I can only pray that I would have the bravery to do so.  That is what is under discussion.  Nothing more.  Nothing less. 

We are honoring a man who gave his life for a child.  I am, frankly, appalled that we cannot simply honor such a sacrifice. 

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter at March 29, 2012 11:20 AM (4df7R)

You are correct.  No smacking required.  But I reserve any rights to any future smacking TBD.

We don't know that. Just the chance that one family's mind is changed, that that girl will grow up to be different from her prevailing culture- however slim that chance is- that chance is important.

It is really very unimportant.

Remember, we are not there to save children. We are there ostensibly to blow up terrorists. A minute ago we settled on some agreement that this guy saved this girl, NOT as some part of strategy to win over the heart of Afghanistan, but because he was just a decent guy who saw a girl in danger, and wasn't about to watch her get run over.

This 'hearts and minds' stuff is really tangential, no? Like, at best, 'extra bonus', to what was at it's core a simple but profound act of human decency necessitated by a bad random situation?

To be honest with you, this hearts and minds thing, it's not worth much, I think it's a fools errand.

You are correct. No smacking required. But I reserve any rights to any future smacking TBD.

Posted by: mama winger at March 29, 2012 11:21 AM (P6QsQ)

Duly noted and accepted.  

From a political perspective, imagine if Weichel had done nothing...instead of one Afghan kid being run over, it would have been reported by the Taliban (and picked up without comment by the media) as a whole classroom full of honors students being ruthlessly bulldozed by a drunk, renegade, bacon-eating armored division...and imagine if she had been wearing a hoodie.  Being deployed makes one acutely aware of the political dimension of serving. 

I wonder if the Grima Wormtongues in military Pubic Affairs have promoted this story in Afghanistan...

I don't want to speak for mama winger here, Entropy, but when she said "it's not your call," I don't believe she was talking about Spc. Weichel's deployment to Afghanistan. She was talking about his choice to save the girl. There is a very big difference.

OK. I've never disagreed or tried to make any calls on that issue.

I do not expect someone like Weichel to decide any differently in that kind of situation.

That is why I prefer men like Weichel not be put in these situations unless there is a damn good reason. As you may guess, I do not see such a reason to remain in Afghanistan.

I was talking about a single family- or maybe even just that little girl- seeing the world differently enough from the rest of her culture to be different. Maybe to escape that culture all together and get a real education. Maybe become the next great philosopher, or doctor, or whatever.

That would be fucking awesome.

It is a point of some soreness for me, I do wonder whether in 10-20 years his children will be able to look at Afghanistan and see the fruit of his sacrifice, or whether we will read a news story of some 17 year old girl being executed for the crime of being gang raped, and have to wonder if that was her.

...and imagine if she had been wearing a hoodie.

Heh.

Skittles.

The test of life is not a group activity. It seems Dennis Weichel passed his test with valor and honor.

He was a good and honorable man. What higher praise is there?

I'd suggest shots for every time he says "clean energy", but after 5 minutes someone would have to call the paramedics for you

You think it would take five minutes? I mean, I know the Horde has, well, Horde level tolerance but still.

85 He said, Mom - I don't want to live an ordinary life. If I wanted to
live an ordinary life, I would stay home in Wisconsin and get a local
job and do the 9 to 5. But that's not my calling. My calling is to
serve, and if I did not do that I would not be the man God calls me to
be. And if God is calling, then don't you think He has me in His
hands? I could die crossing the street in Milwaukee, and it would be
without meaning. If I die in service, then it is according to His
purposes, and that would be part of my calling.

Posted by: mama winger at March 29, 2012 11:00 AM (P6QsQ)  

mama, That's a damn fine MAN that you raised.

We are fortunate, indeed, to be represented by such fine men as your son and Spc. Weichel.

They make me proud to be an American.

Prayers and thanks for all of those who serve, and the families who support them.

You. Don't. Get. That. Choice.

You. Don't. Know. What. The. Hell. I'm. Talking. About.

SPC Weichel is already dead. He made his choice. Now you have a choice to make.

Exactly. Get the hell out before SPC Finkleshmidt sees children running in the road too.

Posted by: mama winger at March 29, 2012 11:37 AM (P6QsQ)

{{{{mama winger}}}}

@164 - Forgot to include Jane D'oh in my thanks as well - you, too, have raised a fine young MAN; I know from reading your comments that you are (rightfully) proud of him, no matter how much you may worry about him over there.

Your family is also in my family's thoughts and prayers every night.

Research says we are already the person we are going to be by age 5.

A son like Jane's, or MomWinger's  are really a testament to just how fine their mom is. Well done.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 29, 2012 11:19 AM (eEfYn)

It did change things. We are not nation-building over there because we are so soft-hearted, we are doing so in order to deny future generations of terrorists shelter and recruiting grounds, so that our children and grandchildren will not have to do it.

Bush could have gone in, smashed everything, and left. It would have been easy, both militarily and politically to do so. However, we would have had to do so again, and again, and again, in different places, because it would have fueled hatred and resentment as well as fear, and as soon as the fear lessened enough, we would have another 9/11. At some point, despite our best efforts, they would manage to smuggle a nuke in, and in the meantime, we would have to live in a continual state of fear, possibly gradually evolving into a police state in order to prevent terrorism. Smash and leave doesn't ultimately solve the problem, it just kicks the can down the road. The Romans did that to the Germans, and it backfired - they merely taught the Germans how to fight more efficiently.

Bush, however, was neither a fool nor a scoundrel, and he came up with a plan to win once and for all, by destabilizing the middle east, introducing democracy and encouraging peoples to rise up against the dictators who were using jihad as a way of siphoning off resentment (remember that, while he may have talked nice to the house of Sa'ud, he was also pursuing a strategy that would hopefully destroy them in the long run.) If it had worked it meant that future American generations would have had to fight fewer and easier wars, and probably live more freely as a result. Its failure means we will be fighting for a long time to come.

Afghanistan and Iraq are only campaigns in a war that will last for generations. Conservatives knew this ten years ago, but most seem to have forgotten now.

159 SCOAMF blames Big Oil for gas prices in speech

------------

Does that mean I'm off the hook?

I remember when Cheney said to our Military ...."Stand fast. Help is on the way".....back during the campaign of 2000. 

It's even worse now for our servicemen, than it was during the Clinton years.

Not to sully the topic of this thread, only in the interest of lightening the mood, and serve as a reminder of what our mission is this year..... Linky in my name.

The look on this officer's face....looking at the JEF....speaks volumes.

We are not nation-building over there because we are so soft-hearted, we are doing so in order to deny future generations of terrorists shelter and recruiting grounds, so ...

...they will go to Yemen, Indonesia, Syria, Palestine, Dagestan, Chechnya, London England and Malmo Sweden for their shelter and recruiting instead, and surrender the crucial geostragetic crossroads of our key economic trading partner Afghanistan.

FIFY?

And that's if our 20 year project to reform a barren mountain range full of violent nomads is wildly sucessful.

190....Are you saying that Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable tyrant?

Why, yes. Yes, I am.

The  best  epitaph  I  know  comes  from  the  movie  "She  Wore  A  Yellow  Ribbon" .  

Spc.  Weichel

A  gallant  soldier  and  a  Christian  gentleman.    

"doesn't ultimately solve the problem, it just kicks the can down the road. The Romans did that to the Germans, and it backfired - they merely taught the Germanshow to fight more efficiently."

I like the Carthage example better. That was true old school Roman.

We never should have wasted lives and MONEY , pallets and pallets of MONEY on FUCKING IRAQ.

-----

Woulda coulda shoulda. But we did! And its squarely within the federal charter to do it. Unlike the other shit.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at March 29, 2012 12:11 PM (FBpse)

He's thinking, "I can't believe this pansy-assed, prissy, metrosexual Marxist is my CiC."

Kill enemies, play referee in courts, uh, put on the vote. Thats about all the feds should be doing. Whatever is in the first sentence of the preamble.

198...OMG - that look.

Perfect. Isn't it? 

That officer's face....also seemed to fit the thread title of "The Real Face...". ....So I hope I haven't offended anyone by going a little O/T. 

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at March 29, 2012 12:14 PM (FBpse)

Yeah, we're still here.  Is Moochelle in town?  Srsly?  I literally haven't stepped outside the Venetian since we got here.  It's like its own little city.

When the zombie hordes attack, the morons could all gather here, seal up the entrances, and make this our headquarters.  You literally never have to leave this place for anything.

@ 166

I'm afraid I do know what you're talking about.  I just don't give a fuck, because you can't or won't see the what this post is about:  one man's actions and what that says about him, us and humanity in general.

You can't see me right now, but trust me - I am literally surrounded by mounds of fucks that I am not giving about whether or not the mission in Afghanistan is, was or will ever be worth it.

Also in those piles are fucks I don't give about what becomes of that little girl's life. That will be largely the result of her choices.

SPC Weichel gave all so that she has the OPPORTUNITY. I know that's not as interesting to you as your opinion on the war, but it is to me.

Posted by: mama winger at March 29, 2012 12:10 PM (P6QsQ)

No one noticed Zero has the binocs upside down?

and as soon as the fear lessened enough, we would have another 9/11. At some point, despite our best efforts, they would manage to smuggle a nuke in, and in the meantime, we would have to live in a continual state of fear, possibly gradually evolving into a police state in order to prevent terrorism.

Islamic terrorism has been around 40 years or more and they've hated us and attacked us the whole time.

They pulled off ONE 9-11 only, and we changed our security procedures to prevent another. Even factoring in the fatalities from 9-11, your portrayal of devolving into a police state being necessary seems quite far fetched, given that White-Tailed Deer still continue to kill more Americans per year than terrorists manage.

This is part of the problem I have with the pie-in-the-sky "any one (hypothetical) life!" rhetoric. It does not hold up in application because it's ridiculously inoperative. I think we need to be realists.

Posted by:Empire of Jeff at March 29, 2012 12:21 PM (G/8zE)

I don't want to take anything away from your comment because it is a wonderful truth.

still if this girls life goes badly , by her acts or others acts , pain or suffering, she will have had a moment in time where the truth is there was a man that truly gave himself for her to have a chance.

Posted by: Hydrocarbon Liberation Front at March 29, 2012 12:22 PM (NVu2l)

F*cking binoculars....how do they work?

Posted by: Entropy at March 29, 2012 12:03 PM (TULs6)

What is your alternative? Mass genocide? Smash everything and leave, leaving another generation in the Middle East to grow up hating us and knowing that we will be back again shortly, playing whack-a-mole in the Middle East for another three or five generations while our country becomes a police state in an effort to keep terrorists from vaporizing New York? Far better to attack the ideology of Jihad by offering the average person the possibility of a better life, however far behind what we have, while demonstrating that those who fight against us do not prosper and denying the enemy the space and resources it needs.

I don't think it will work and we need to radically change or plan, but it was not foolish to try and those who just want to leave them to their own devices are not thinking long-term.

Empire of Jeff, you're whole spiel seems to be that you are outraged and offended that I am not talking about the same thing as you, because you are today's Dictator of Debate.

We're still not even talking about the same thing.

You are now informing me that you aggressively don't give a fuck whether or not we're talking about the same thing?

Me either really. But I will choose to not be outraged by it.

When it comes to binocs....it's best to look through the small eye-pieces. ....So yeah, the JEF is looking through the wrong end. ....Also, I think that, yeah....the ears have been enhanced a little....either that, or it was windy and they were flapping out.

Posted by: Vic at March 29, 2012 12:25 PM (YdQQY)

We're leaving Saturday afternoon.  Hope we're out of here before Her Highness and the kiddies arrive.

Is Moochelle scoping out a spot on Mt. Rushmore for Barky's likeness?  I don't think there's enough rock there for his ears.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 29, 2012 12:21 PM (G/8zE)

Well said EOJ.

What is your alternative? Mass genocide?

Calm your ass down, it's been a decade.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 29, 2012 12:21 PM (G/8zE)

Bravo Zulu!  CEP zero, fire for effect!

Posted by: Entropy at March 29, 2012 12:23 PM (TULs6)

They have actually managed to attack successfully several times. 9/11 was only the most successful. Eventually they {i]will get through with something worse. When they do, we will adjust to meet the threat, and the cycle will begin again.

As for the the evolving police state, think about how flying on a plane has become so much more difficult since 9/11. Now apply that to the rest of society as terrorists manage to exploit different facets or our society and fast-forward a hundred years. Do like the TSA?

Finally I can bring my lap horse with me to the bar. This part caught my eye:

The guidelines noted that the horses can be "viable alternatives" for people who are allergic to dogs or whose religious beliefs do not allow them to be around dogs.

---

Gee who would THAT be?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) SMOD 2012 at March 29, 2012 12:32 PM

Here is the first clue, from the article:

Put some Vagisil on it, Entropy. You're getting awfully close to insisting that you have the right to free speech and I'm oppressing you, you poncy crybaby.

You can say whatever you want. And I can respond to it. Did I even tell you to shut up? So someone is annoyed by the things you say - that happens to me HOURLY.

Yes, there's a pile of fucks fit that, too.  No, I will not give you any.  Quit complaining.

Posted by: Entropy at March 29, 2012 12:32 PM (TULs6)

If you don't bother to try to comprehend what I wrote, why should I bother trying to reason with you? Far better to insult you - at least  that way I get some entertainment out of the exchange.

No one noticed Zero has the binocs upside down?

It's a GIVEN that Barky is always "doin' it wrong" - I prolly would have commented if he had been using them correctly.....

God bless Spc.Weichel and his family. Heartbreaking photo of he and his kids. 

"Some want "crazy, murderous vets" be the narrative of the War on Terror. We owe to those who served honorably and sacrificed so much, to make sure the truth wins out in the end."

IMHO, there is a harsh word, but an applicable one for those who would assist the above narrative and impugn the sacrifices of our servicemen and women to serve political ends - evil. 

You're getting awfully close to insisting that you have the right to free speech and I'm oppressing you, you poncy crybaby.

Is that in the same vein you're telling me what the discussion is and what I'm suppose to be talking about?

I am now - well not really me, but the wall you are arguing with - crying like a poncy crybaby?

Well then! Sounds like you won! Congratulations on defeating that sinister potted plant you aggresively didn't a fuck about arguing with.

If you don't bother to try to comprehend what I wrote, why should I bother trying to reason with you?

Like I said, google "false dichotomy".

I reject your attempt to frame the choices as "genocide muslims" or else "get nuked".

Posted by: willow at March 29, 2012 12:12 PM (TomZ9)

I can check him out, but my whole internet persona is a pagan who follows the Norse mythology. That way I can kick libs in the knee and no practicing religions are harmed.

The Real Face.....of what the Son of Barky would look like.

New linky in my name. Heh.

Here is the first clue, from the article:
The guidelines noted that the horses can be viable alternatives for
people who are allergic to dogs or whose religious beliefs do not allow
them to be around dogs.

I vaguely recall seeing something about how those itty bitty tiny little horses, you know the ones that look like they're toys, can be used as service animals.

do you really expect our Warriors to react any differently?

No.

Huh! People keep projecting that at me, I guess they're reverse triangulating what else I think from what I've actually said or something. But you can't catch me saying that, copper! They've got nothing on me.

But, while there, our Troops will continue to put their own lives at risk for the innocent, its just the way American Warriors are wired.

The better ones, yes. I don't disagree. Which is all the more reason to save them for when they are really needed and yank them out of that armpit, IMO.

Posted by: wheatie at March 29, 2012 12:44 PM (dEMjC)

OMG.  I literally jumped out of my chair!  Jeebus.

Cos otherwise . . . how the hell did that happen?

Those damn Amish, is there nothing they don't ruin!

281 273 ....OMG. I literally jumped out of my chair! Jeebus.

He has Moochelle's eyes, I think.

Posted by: Entropy at March 29, 2012 12:45 PM (TULs6)

Indeed.  Time to withdraw, and poison every well on the way out.  Leave that place a desert. 

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) SMOD 2012 at March 29, 2012 12:24 PM (8y9MW)

I could see the value of having high lenses (think trench warfare) but all the models I've ever used had the hinge on top.

Posted by: phoenixgirl at March 29, 2012 12:49 PM (Ho2rs)

Good for you.  Now got people calling asking if I will get them tickets.  LOL

Good luck.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 29, 2012 12:50 PM (eEfYn)

------------------------

Well said.  I would add that the one other major strategic error was our desire to leave thier populations as untouched as possible.  Collateral damage in the course of a war against savages is a good thing, not a bad thing.  They will obey whoever they fear most.

Every time I get hit with the "I'm rubber and you're glue" retort it's like getting a surprise blowjob from my own slutty guardian angel.

I've had better, but not many. Thank you.

292...Where are you guys seeing this picture?

Walrus Rex...click the link in my name at comment no. 236.

Posted by: Vic at March 29, 2012 12:57 PM (YdQQY)

For the love of God, tell me that's pshopped. Lie if you must.

Posted by: Theresa, MSgt (Ret) at March 29, 2012 12:41

===========

oorah, and ty

==============

jane and mamaw - if your sons haven't already looked into it, let them know about anysoldier and anymarine dot com.  they / unit can sign up for support while deployed.

They have actually managed to attack successfully several times. 9/11 was only the most successful.

Yes, and the yearly casualty rate averaged out is lower then the number of Americans routinely murdered by White-Tailed Deer.

Eventually they{i]will get through with something worse.

Assertion. Back it up.

 When they do,

If they do, perhaps 50 years from now.

 we will adjust to meet the threat, and the cycle will begin again.

Well there is nothing new under the sun. Next time, 50 years from now, despite all your fuss over islamists, it might be radical Canadian seperatist terrorists that are blowing shit up and we'll have to respond to it. Or environmentalists.

As for the the evolving police state, think about how flying on a plane has become so much more difficult since 9/11.

Because people like you are mortified by something that actuarially, is about half as terrifying as a deer. 

Now apply that to the rest of society as terrorists manage to exploit different facets or our society and fast-forward a hundred years.

Well if we're doing this, what about the aliens? The hostile green ones. I am inserting them into this hypothetical because they MAY factor. It's non-dispositive.

IF the number of people who are killed by terrorism justifies such action as invading and occupying whole countries....

WHEN the number of people killed by not wearing a helmet on their bicycle exceeds that value, what the hell will it justify in the name of addressing this dire threat?

Lynn & Vanhanen guesstimate an average IQ for Afghanistan of 83, which is about half of a standard deviation less than what is required for rudimentary literacy [roughly IQ 90].

By all rights, any child who runs out in front of 16-ton piece of equipment OUGHT to become a Darwin Award winner.

By contrast - and depending on his "specialty" - Specialist Dennis Weichel could easily have had an IQ out around 110.

And if any of you think that trading the life of a noble, virtuous, intelligent Christian man, in exchange for the life of a savage subliterate creature which will undoubtedly grow up to be an Islamic witch screaming that idiotic desert bird chant when her sons blow themselves up as suicide bombers - if any of you think that that's some kind of a fair trade, then you need to read Theodore Dalrymple on "Sentimentality".

Google: "Sentimentality is poisoning our society".

We just can't continue to sacrifice the lives of good men in the hopes that we can civilize these savage, evil barbarians.

The nation building exercise in Afghanistan was lost the moment that Dubya allowed the very first article in the Afghanistan Constitution to read as follows:

Article One
Ch. 1. Art. 1
"Afghanistan is an Islamic Republic, independent, unitary and indivisible state."

Once those words were set in stone, every single dime we spent on that shithole was a complete waste of money.

@313

No, I'm just the dick joke guy. Set phasers to "Ignore."

Alex, I'm positive it's photoshopped. Whoever did it worked on his ears, too.

I can't tell if it's sad or hilarious that I don't even notice the SCOAMT's ears anymore.

Posted by: Entropy at March 29, 2012 12:42 PM (TULs6)

I know perfectly well what a false dichotomy is, and that isn't it. I never said those were the only choices - we could also attempt to democratize the Middle East. We could also avoid getting nuked by forming a police state. We could have an unsuccessful nuclear terrorist attack that goads people into forming a very restricted society. There are a lot of different things that could happen, none of them very good.

My point was that a continual terrorist threat over the next century or so does pose a threat to liberty - our current success is due to tighter restrictions here plus the fact that we have stayed in Afghanistan and Iraq and detroyed a large portion of the enemies' finest minds and taken up a great deal of their manpower and resources. If we leave will will face much more sophisticated threats here at home as soon as they can regroup, which will probably lead to greater restrictions over the next couple generations. My second point was that a smash and leave policy, which seems to be increasing favored by the Right, does nothing to solve the problem long-term. My third point, which I began with, was that the Right has forgotten why we are doing what we are in the Middle East and that Bush was a great deal more thoughtful and clearsighted than usually believed. Finally, I will add that there seem to be a bunch of folks who believe our own propaganda - the jihadis are neither stupid nor primitive. They have their own goals and worldview quite alien to ours, but they are not stupid and are quite capable of learning from their mistakes. They also seem to understand us far better than we understand them.

"The only way this guy did not waste his life in rescuing the little girl is if she grows up to be something other than a devout Muslima or if other see his act and convert to some other belief system."

THIS.

An utter and complete waste of a noble and virtuous man's life.

In exchange for what will undoubtedly grow up to be yet another savage barbaric witch-monster.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 29, 2012 12:50 PM (eEfYn)

I never said the strategy was working, and as a matter of fact I think we should withdraw from Afghanistan if possible. My concern is that people are 1) forgetting why we were there in the first place, and 2) there is no good long-term strategy to take its place.

Do  you  know  who   else  could  be  SCoaMF's  son ?  

Shawn  Tyson

http://tinyurl.com/743fg4p

Posted by: wheatie at March 29, 2012 01:07 PM (dEMjC)

Moonbattery has the best pics of SCOAMF (except for the ones slublog posts).

347....Moonbattery has the best pics of SCOAMF (except for the ones slublog posts).

Yeah he does. ....I try to remember to peek at that site. There's usually always some good posts there.

Posted by: kbdabear at March 29, 2012 01:13 PM (Y+DPZ)

That elderly couple's attorney is going to have a field day.  This is more red meat for him.  I hope they end up extremely wealthy when this is all over, and Roseanne's and Spike's careers are in the toilet (more than they actually are.)

1) forgetting why we were there in the first place, and 2) there is no good long-term strategy to take its place.

1) Why were there in the first place was ill-concieved and not a realistic plan with realistic achievable goals. It has been very confused since day 1.

2) Correct. There really isn't. And that's OK.

Last year when those 'flash mob' things were proliferating....I figured that the Leftists would eventually start using that tactic to 'call out attacks' on their perceived enemies.

It looks like that is what is happening now....with the Tweeting of addresses for Zimmerman. ....It's worse than yelling "fire!" in a crowded place. Way worse. ....This is like calling out a terrorist strike on a target.

OT, but what is it about people on conference call   webinars      that they NEVER mute their damn phones       when the presenters are speaking?    I realize that a lot of them are probably technologically illiterate, but good God.  How hard is it to either hit MUTE on your phone or press *6?      The schoolmarmish, "We'd just like to remind folks to please mute your phones     since we're hearing some background conversations," that invariably ensue drive me INSANE.

*goes back to banging head on desk*

Okay, carry on!

Posted by: Lady in Black.....{sigh} at March 29, 2012 01:23 PM (F+Xfj)

I said the same thing up-thread.  I don't believe there's enough rock for Barky's ears.

What are she and the girls planning on doing in Vegas, for crying out loud?  Shutting down the Strip? 

Please, please, let them stay away until we're gone.

Visited Mt. Rushmore.
Since Rootherford B. Hayes didn't qualify, I do believe they were
measuring what room is left for Barky's ears.

If Mooch and the Moochlettes     visit    the Black Hills, isn't     it considered racist?

Posted by: Entropy at March 29, 2012 01:15 PM (TULs6)

Sure, if you go read a couple books on the frontier wars in the Eastern United States between various Indian nations and white settlers between, say, 1755 and 1812, with particular attention to the forty-year conflict for control of the Ohio River Valley. Also read Peter Heather's book about the fall of the Roman Empire. No exact parallel between those and the current conflict by any means, but it might help you start thinking strategically.

I am done here, I think.

Posted by: Cicero at March 29, 2012 01:21 PM (QKKT0)

You're just mad because they have destroyed the economy, destroyed the rule of law, and endangered our existence.

 it might help you start thinking strategically.

About deer?

An Israeli style barrier wall, along both sides of all the nations highways and interstates.

Money pissed away on that would save more hypothetical lives then money spent chasing islamic deer.

Death WILL get you. It probably won't be in a terrorist explosion. We've blown the living piss out of Al Quaeda. You have to be realistic about your goals.

You think we're going to invade and reform these cesspits, wherever the terrorists go? At 10 years per country, you have a recipe for a thousand years of warfare.

Seriously?

Half. After I hit post, I wished I would have added "for decades". Invade, and occupy for decades.

The reason to attack and invade another country can be based on principle alone - "Act of War". It could be as "tiny" as the murder of a single American citizen by a foreign country and that we want justice.

Yes. True. I didn't oppose blowing the piss out of them. But at some point we must be done blowing the piss out of them.

It's not an issue of justice for jihadis, it's whether or not we are acting in a practical manner that actually benefits us.

We certainly were justified to blow them to piss. And we remain justified in occupying them. Justified, but that doesn't make it a good idea for us.

Because, again, if the numbers of dead from jihadis justifies all this "blood and treasure" we are spending, what in gods name does the war on drugs demand? The scourge of cigarettes? White-tailed deer?

I was scared too. I went overboard neocon for a little while there, I did. But it's been a decade. I've been saying for 5 years you can't beat this horse forever. The threat from islamists is simply NOT existential. The numbers aren't there and the numbers don't demagogue and they don't hyperbolize or get scared and emotional. These goathumpers are not the Soviet Union, they do not justify our long term sustained over-reaction to them.

In real life, in America, we do not have a terrorism epidemic. We got some acts of goober nutjob terrorism here or there (not all from islamists, either). But it's not some kind of existential crisis to which we must focus our efforts as a nation.

By the numbers, if it is, what isn't?

Do you believe that terrorism in the US would have stayed at the low level we enjoy now? Or would Bin Laden and his ilk been emboldened to plan more attacks on a grander scale?

The latter. What's that got to do with anything? Over is over.

Do you think that the Islamists are secretly "live and let live" at heart?

No. Do you think the Russians secretly love us? The Chinese? The Norks?

Are they all imminent national security threats we must destroy at any cost?

because that's how virulent and dangerous it is in our modern world.

But it isn't.

Backward goathumpers are backward, news at 11.  The world has always had horrible regressive places full of horrible, regressive, violent and expansive nutjobs.

You can't change the world. No solution and no plan will produce utopia.

That's just facts man, radical islamic terrorists will exist no matter who we invade and occupy. They will strike at us if they can, no matter who we invade and occupy. Their plots will suceed or not, no matter who we invade and occupy.

Didn't most of the 9/11 hijackers come from Yemen anyway?

No matter how many wars you fight the world's supply of violent criminals will not be exhausted.

I don't believe that we can push back "just right" to hold Islam exactly where it is now, and no further.

We're not even fighting that.

You want to send Brazillian Lebanese Christians back to Lebanon with support from the "international community" and Israel to fight a demographic war? Want to toss the Turks off of Cyprus and give it to the Greek Orthodox Cypriots?

Well whatever. Nobody is even doing that. It's almost non-sequitar.

Do you think they're content to stay outside America?

The deer, you mean?

You mean like if we give them Canada to appease them?

Probably not, no.

They want our salt and they will stop at nothing.

we shouldn't have bothered fighting Hitler or Hirohito.

We killed Bin Laden.

Do you really figure on killing every jihadist on the planet in Afghanistan?

At what point is it done? What does a win look like, Afghanistan has to become Conneticut? Ain't never gonna happen.

The thing about the Nazis and the Japanese....

They were more dangerous to us than wolves, let alone deer.

"Terrorism" isn't. Al Quaeda quite arguably was - we blew that to piss. It's basically dead now. We can't ban nutjobs from using the name or replicating the spirit of the organization, but the bastards who blew up those towers are kaput.

i know sgt dennis weichel was a great person inside and out he had 3 great and would have done just about anything for any one especially his children he was a great dad also son brother uncle  and so on please let this man RIP SGT DENNIS P WEICHEL 9/1/82-3/22/12 my condolences go out to the entire family

And I've said multiple times now, Weichel is of course a fine specimen of human excellence.

I just hope we don't have to lose any more like him.

You on the other hand, are far too interested in your own issues to just let others pay him that respect.

I'm going to refer you to Empire of Jeff.

Empire of Jeff will judge whether you are suspiciously close to claiming your first ammendment rights are being oppressed by my very existence and crying about it.

I don't recall where I was launching DNS attacks on anyone who tried to pay respect to Weichel because I'm disallowing any of that.

It is suprising to me how affronted some people seem, that seeing another father of 3 lost would remind me of yet another reason why we should leave Afghanistan before it happens again.

But the way you want to go about it has more to do with a shameful retreat (American soldier died, NOT WORTH IT) than with victory.

That kind of talk seems more hung up on appearances and ideology to me, than reality.

What is, is. I have no farkin idea whether or not us leaving Afghanistan right now would be in victory, or cutting losses. I was never really clear WTF the realistic goal there was.

I'm pretty sure our exit, whenever it happens, will be as ambivalent and aimless as our occupation.

'Number calculus' is leftist now? I thought math was biased toward conservatives.

because Entropy and Emmanuel are essentially calling this soldier stupid for his last act of valor

I can't help what you pretend I said.

I'm glad he saved the little girl, but I still told my son to plow right through children if they're blocking the road. It's a common ploy to get soldiers to stop. .

I'd rather have him deal with nightmares than be dead.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 29, 2012 10:53 AM (G/8zE)

Thank you, nothing else needs to be said, RIP SPC Weichel.

Big F*** You Ace for finding that clip, flip side is thank you.

That is gonna haunt me.....his daughter yelling "daddy".......dude........I'm crying like a fracking baby.  This warrior went down saving a little girl, now his won't get get jump into his arms again.  And they hate us.  How did this not get the media that the one overstressed and PTSD guy gets?  I'm done.......we can't win. 

Valhalla, he gets the VIP pass.  Nuff said.

And the same day this hero gave his life, that sack of shit Karzai was up in front of the parliament, or whatever they call their gathering of trogs, to state American soldiers were acting like "demons" I almost threw my boot through the tv when I saw that. I don't even like to mention these two in the same sentence. because at the end of the day, Karzai, with all of his ill-gotten riches and stupid looking hats and robes and shit, couldn't muster up the integrity and humanity to even be in the same species as SFC Weichel. He's less than fucking dirt. 

I'd like to beat every penny out of that primitive, bearded fuck and give it to this guy's deserving kids.