October 02, 2012
— Ace I would prefer the term "downturn" because I think we're still in the same recession -- or depression -- that started in 2008. In this depressionary economy, we will have cycles of growth and contraction, but all zeroed around the reduced, depressionary level of the New Normal.
As I keep saying, this happened in the Great Depression too. An economy never remains perfectly static-- it grows some, it contracts some. But in a Depression, its equilibrium is set several big steps below its optimum level.
Economists have mistaken this natural, inevitable "growth along the bottom" for a recovery.
That said, it could very well be that we're now in the middle of a recession within our depressionary economy.
[I]t’s more than a little frightening that we’re seeing a spate of depressing numbers that could signal a recession on the horizon — or that one is already here. On Thursday the Commerce Department revised down its estimate of second-quarter GDP growth to 1.3% from an already sluggish 1.7%. If that weren’t bad enough, the Department also reported that orders of durable goods – long-lasting pieces of equipment like airplanes or heavy machinery – fell 13.2% in August. And Friday, the Project Management Institute was out with a survey which showed that manufacturing activity in the Chicago region was contracting, surprising many analysts. While it’s unwise to read too much into any one of these data, the three in succession are unsettling.These data also give ammo to bearish commentators who have long been predicting a recession in either late 2012 or early 2013. John Hussman, president of Hussman Economectrics Advisors, is one of those bears and he has recently reiterated that prediction. In his most recent note Hussman wrote:
“We continue to infer that the economy has already entered a recession – something that will probably take several more months to be broadly recognized. We’re seeing fresh lows on the most leading economic component that we infer using unobserved components methods . . . matching weakness that emerged in late 2000 and late 2007. On a slightly positive note, we don’t yet see the near free-fall in these measures that occurred later in 2001 and 2008 as economic weakness rapidly gained momentum.”(MORE: Home Sales, Prices Rise: Is Housing Finally Ready to Lead a Recovery?)
And Hussman isn’t the only one. The Economic Cycle Research Institute – which has good track record calling recessions – has also been predicting a downturn. Now the ECRI is saying that the U.S. is in recession as we speak...
Posted by: Ace at
10:44 AM
| Comments (321)
Post contains 438 words, total size 3 kb.
And it is continuing to get worse.
Posted by: Vic at October 02, 2012 10:47 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: An Honest Pollster at October 02, 2012 10:47 AM (F6KtL)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at October 02, 2012 10:47 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: soothsayer at October 02, 2012 10:47 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at October 02, 2012 10:48 AM (Pixxe)
'Obama inherited an economy poised to recover. Obama's economic policies have suppressed that recovery.'
THE ONLY THING BEING SUPPRESSED IS VOTER RIGHTS BY REPUBLICANS!!
Posted by: THE TROOF MEDIA!!! at October 02, 2012 10:49 AM (F6KtL)
He's not just up S Creek without a paddle, he doesn't have a fricken canoe.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at October 02, 2012 10:49 AM (8y9MW)
Why, it's almost as if high energy prices *cough-Keystone-cough* slow economic growth.
Posted by: Warthog at October 02, 2012 10:49 AM (WDySP)
Posted by: Joe Biden at October 02, 2012 10:51 AM (QKKT0)
Posted by: soothsayer at October 02, 2012 10:51 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at October 02, 2012 10:51 AM (Pixxe)
Things are so bad I have to give my trashman watered-down Gatorade.
Posted by: fluffy at October 02, 2012 10:51 AM (3SvjA)
Posted by: DKCZ at October 02, 2012 10:52 AM (9/bcB)
This here's a depression, straight up. Or down.
Posted by: tcn at October 02, 2012 10:52 AM (ZOUmX)
The November election will be similar to the “soft rollout” used in the April primary when voter ID was optional.
Judge Robert Simpson also blocked language that would have discounted provisional ballots for voters without ID who could not verify their identity within six days.
Opponents of the law asked to block it entirely over concerns it would disenfranchise voters. Simpson granted a preliminary injunction “in part.”
Posted by: Al Capone at October 02, 2012 10:52 AM (e8kgV)
Do you have a macro for that? Or are your comboxes programmed for auto-fill?
Posted by: Sean Bannion at October 02, 2012 10:52 AM (sbV1u)
The only way out is less govt spending, less regulation and less taxation. That or a worldwide war.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 02, 2012 10:52 AM (PHb2k)
Posted by: SH at October 02, 2012 10:52 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Adam at October 02, 2012 10:53 AM (tG36f)
Posted by: soothsayer at October 02, 2012 10:53 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at October 02, 2012 10:53 AM (8y9MW)
Time: Are We Already In A Recession?
Proof positive that they think Romney will win. They're probably dusting off pieces on homelessness as we type.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at October 02, 2012 10:53 AM (U+DUu)
Posted by: fluffy at October 02, 2012 02:51 PM (3SvjA)
Mine prefers Seagram's Gin.
Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at October 02, 2012 10:53 AM (wR+pz)
7 I'm pretty sure that after four years and the feds doing everything they can to forestall it without success, that a recession technically becomes a depression.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at October 02, 2012 02:48 PM (Pixxe)
----------
The Feds are just trying to kick the can down the road.
They are a part of the problem.
And...yeah, it's time to call this what it really is...a depression.
Cute hash, btw.
You must be Pixy's favorite.
Heh.
Posted by: wheatie at October 02, 2012 10:53 AM (l5RhJ)
The Dow Jones is up to 13,500, approaching the peak value of 2007?
Who says we are in a recession? Who's your daddy?
All that government deficit spending has got to go somewhere. Into stocks, commodities and collectibles.
The money going into "collectibles" is a small and anecdotal but telling diagnostic of both inflation and recession. One of the collectibles shows on PBS last night had a guy bringing in an old, well preserved Les Paul guitar, that was appraised at $20,000. The appraiser himself said that these sorts of collectible prices were "going through the roof" and the same guitar could be $25,000 next year. "Going crazy" was the term he used.
Here, here is a clue.
Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch (fighting personal depression) writes.... at October 02, 2012 10:53 AM (RFeQD)
He's not just up S Creek without a paddle, he doesn't have a fricken canoe.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at October 02, 2012 02:49 PM (8y9MW)
--
Maybe, just maybe, Time and a few others have figured out that if TFG gets re-elected, the economy gets even worse than now, and that starving people rarely splurge on newspapers, magazines, or cable television. It may just be self-preservation.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at October 02, 2012 10:53 AM (Pixxe)
We hear this on an almost daily basis. Housing is showing signs of recovery!!
Green shoots, baby! Green shoots!
Posted by: Jay Guevara at October 02, 2012 10:54 AM (U+DUu)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at October 02, 2012 02:49 PM (8y9MW)
So, he's the guy on Top Gear last night that walked across the mud river in the UK? Except with Commander ClusterFuck, it's not mud?
Posted by: © Sponge at October 02, 2012 10:54 AM (UK9cE)
Posted by: OregonMuse at October 02, 2012 10:54 AM (xm1A1)
Posted by: jakeman at October 02, 2012 10:54 AM (96M6e)
Posted by: public sector union douche at October 02, 2012 10:54 AM (GRvW4)
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Aghast in his own head. at October 02, 2012 10:54 AM (hLRSq)
Posted by: tasker at October 02, 2012 10:55 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: Mo the Girl at October 02, 2012 10:55 AM (XSVeC)
Yeah, more or less.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at October 02, 2012 10:55 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: tasker at October 02, 2012 10:55 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at October 02, 2012 10:56 AM (SDkq3)
Poll time! Who's voting for Obama here on this blog? Just to be fair, I've weighted it +100 for Dems. Begin!<<<<<<
I am. It's time Americans were taught a lesson by purposely destroying the economy and bringing back the barter system.
Posted by: Anarcho "Cap" McPurityfag at October 02, 2012 10:56 AM (hRYs4)
The WORD doesn't make a damned bit of difference. It just plain sucks.
Posted by: tcn at October 02, 2012 10:56 AM (ZOUmX)
"No appetite for further fiscal stimulus." Well put. But maybe, "no appetite for heaping piles of tax dollars we don't have being shoveled at every administration crony with a hare-brained "green" scheme" would be more accurate.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at October 02, 2012 10:56 AM (QKKT0)
Posted by: Cajun Carrot at October 02, 2012 10:56 AM (UZQM8)
That, or this could mean the Street has decided Mitt is going to win tomorrow and in the election, so it is time to load up know before things get wild.
Let's go with the second idea.
Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at October 02, 2012 10:56 AM (wR+pz)
This is the thought I've been consoling myself with for the past few weeks.
Posted by: jakeman at October 02, 2012 10:56 AM (96M6e)
Posted by: fluffy at October 02, 2012 02:51 PM (3SvjA)
That whole thing is so stupid. I've lived in the same house for 12 years. I've given the trash guys Gatorade once. Any other time I've offered, they have they're own drink source in the truck.
Posted by: © Sponge at October 02, 2012 10:57 AM (UK9cE)
Embrace the suck, or the suck will embrace you.
Sometimes, I think this has all sucked quite enough, thank you.
Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch (fighting personal depression) writes.... at October 02, 2012 10:57 AM (RFeQD)
Posted by: Jon at October 02, 2012 10:57 AM (tG36f)
Posted by: Chinless Stedman at October 02, 2012 10:57 AM (dAfqy)
Posted by: Economy likes his chicken SPICY at October 02, 2012 10:57 AM (38ReL)
The media is being intentionally misleading here.
While it's true that the median sale price of homes has gone up, that doesn't necessarily imply that housing prices have increased.
It could simply mean that there's an increase in higher priced homes being sold.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 02, 2012 10:58 AM (SY2Kh)
Hell yes, I would hug my garbageman.
Because he is freely exchanging the value of his services for something of equal value that I produce. Like this fuckin chronic. This shit is dank.
Posted by: Anarcho at October 02, 2012 10:58 AM (hRYs4)
Why, it's almost as if high energy prices *cough-Keystone-cough* slow economic growth.
...and tens of thousands of pages of new regulations, an ocean of federal debt, an administration full of kollidge perfessers who've never worked a day in the private sector, a judiciary that refuses to recognize the concept of property rights...
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at October 02, 2012 10:58 AM (lOmbq)
Posted by: Sophistahick at October 02, 2012 10:58 AM (UhXzR)
Water? Like out of the toilet? Brawndo has what I crave, it has electrolytes!
Posted by: The garbage man at October 02, 2012 10:59 AM (vjyZP)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 02, 2012 10:59 AM (oSFWF)
It pisses me off that no one is screaming about the Gas Prices.
Remember back in 2008, when prices when up to about what they are now?
Oooh! It was all the media wanted to talk about.
Gas Prices went back down, before Bush left office....to around $1.65/gal.
So these high gas prices are on Barky.
But...people seem to be accepting them, like it's no big deal.
The country as a whole, is getting poorer by the day...because high gas prices are sucking more money out of the economy, than ever before.
We should be screaming about this.
Posted by: wheatie at October 02, 2012 10:59 AM (l5RhJ)
Posted by: tasker at October 02, 2012 11:00 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at October 02, 2012 11:00 AM (QKKT0)
Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at October 02, 2012 11:00 AM (feFL6)
Posted by: The Robot Devil at October 02, 2012 11:00 AM (136wp)
Posted by: Nevergiveup
Hold onto that Slurpee with both hands.
Posted by: Roy at October 02, 2012 11:00 AM (VndSC)
Posted by: Sophistahick at October 02, 2012 02:56 PM (UhXzR)
Full monty??!!??!?
*swoon*
Posted by: Fluke ESQ. at October 02, 2012 11:00 AM (dAfqy)
Posted by: Sandy Fluke at October 02, 2012 11:00 AM (GRvW4)
Posted by: Fightin' Joe Biden at October 02, 2012 11:00 AM (w41GQ)
Mrs. Jakeman actually requested last night that I go out and add a new piece to our arsenal. I was stunned. She's not nearly as paranoid about our current state of affairs as I am, but there it was, right there in the open, added to our ongoing discussion of the merits of Belize vs. Panama.
Posted by: jakeman at October 02, 2012 11:01 AM (96M6e)
Posted by: runninrebel at October 02, 2012 11:01 AM (eYiNi)
Posted by: Infidel at October 02, 2012 11:01 AM (O/fK8)
The stock market is not necessarily growing organically. Much of the rise in stock prices is because the market is measured in dollars, and there seems to be billions more of those floating around every month.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at October 02, 2012 11:01 AM (Pixxe)
Helicopter Ben warns congress to keep its nose out of his business with interest rates and sucking ObamaÂ’s crank for political purposes.
Bernanke warned that such a step would improperly inject political pressure into the FedÂ’s private deliberations and affect the officialsÂ’ decisions.
hahahahahahaha, he thinks we are all idiots.
http://is.gd/9nAWJ9
Posted by: Vic at October 02, 2012 11:01 AM (YdQQY)
You know, I don't think it was all that long ago that there was a Time cover that loudly proclaimed "America: Roaring Back" because, they told us, the economic hard times had ended due to the awesome wonderfulness of Obama's economic policies.
Sitting in a doctor's office a few months ago, I read a Newsweek article on how the economy was starting to surge now that Obama's policies were starting to kick in.
It's always good to have a laugh in the doctor's office.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at October 02, 2012 11:01 AM (U+DUu)
Posted by: SH at October 02, 2012 11:01 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Sophistahick at October 02, 2012 11:01 AM (UhXzR)
I live in an area that was not particularly crushed by the housing crisis. Yet the appraised value of my house (when we re-financed in 2011) was $30,000 less than the appraised value in 2007.
And judging by the selling prices of comparable houses in the neighborhood, there has been no rebound in house prices. There may be movement due to inflation/currency depreciation, but otherwise the house price crawl is minimal. Most houses are still on the market a long time. A house around the corner has been for sale for 5 months, and it is basically just like mine.
Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch (fighting personal depression) writes.... at October 02, 2012 11:02 AM (RFeQD)
Posted by: Time Magazine at October 02, 2012 11:02 AM (QupBk)
Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at October 02, 2012 11:02 AM (wR+pz)
Posted by: The Garbage Man at October 02, 2012 11:02 AM (R18D0)
Posted by: Barack 'A Model Idiot' Obama at October 02, 2012 11:02 AM (8J5Ck)
The stock market is not necessarily growing organically. Much of the rise in stock prices is because the market is measured in dollars, and there seems to be billions more of those floating around every month.
And billions more fleeing the EU.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at October 02, 2012 11:02 AM (U+DUu)
Not so much in my little town. You can get a 1900 sqft house for $37k or a gas station/convenience store for $99k
House
http://tinyurl.com/8tq4uem
C-Store
http://tinyurl.com/8zywhg9
Posted by: Buzzsaw at October 02, 2012 11:02 AM (tf9Ne)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 02, 2012 11:02 AM (oSFWF)
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 02, 2012 02:52 PM (PHb2k)
------------>>>
Obama's policies have virtually guaranteed a war starting in the Middle East. Once the war starts, it WILL spread.
Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop posting from work at October 02, 2012 11:03 AM (3P3G8)
Posted by: Kevin in ABQ at October 02, 2012 11:03 AM (XrGnJ)
Posted by: Screaming, Foaming Islamists from the 1100's at October 02, 2012 11:03 AM (71LDo)
The MFM likes to tout it because they can shift blame on its ups and downs to whatever they like. The real reason it goes up and down is what the short term speculators think they can make damn buck off of.
Posted by: Vic at October 02, 2012 11:03 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: fluffy at October 02, 2012 02:51 PM (3SvjA)
I had to give em water down water.
And a one armed hug
Posted by: Bruce at October 02, 2012 11:03 AM (JI+T4)
Posted by: Max Power at October 02, 2012 11:04 AM (q177U)
Posted by: soothsayer at October 02, 2012 11:04 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: Jobo the Hobo at October 02, 2012 11:04 AM (136wp)
Posted by: The Garbage Man at October 02, 2012 11:04 AM (R18D0)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD the revelator at October 02, 2012 11:04 AM (VtjlW)
Yes, I'm a pedant.
Posted by: ToursLepantoVienna at October 02, 2012 11:04 AM (UlI/7)
And Obama = ?
It was in the class lecture - check your notes...Posted by: The Robot Devil at October 02, 2012 11:05 AM (136wp)
>>>>Young kids are refusing to buy anything. They saw how their parents got burned and they want to rent.
My Grandparents were kids during the last depression. They had different buying/saving habits afterward too. Live and learn.
Posted by: Roy at October 02, 2012 11:05 AM (VndSC)
What finally got us out of the depression was Eisenhower providing stability and then JFK doing a major tax cut.
Posted by: Vic at October 02, 2012 11:05 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: 1% Garbage Pickers Union #3455 at October 02, 2012 11:06 AM (0It32)
Posted by: small town girl at October 02, 2012 11:06 AM (AUV9e)
>>One of the collectibles shows on PBS last night had a guy bringing in an old, well preserved Les Paul guitar, that was appraised at $20,000. The appraiser himself said that these sorts of collectible prices were "going through the roof" and the same guitar could be $25,000 next year. "Going crazy" was the term he used.
Bullshit. The keyword above is 'appraiser'. Try and find a buyer for 50% of the appraised value. There aren't any.
I deal in these kinds of guitars and the prices are through the floor, not the roof. Have been since 2007.
Posted by: garrett at October 02, 2012 11:06 AM (gplzV)
Posted by: soothsayer at October 02, 2012 11:06 AM (jUytm)
they just had a clip from a PA assemblywoman-- D-- from PA.
She claimed the US is a democracy and that we have universal suffrage.
Nice.
Posted by: Truman North at October 02, 2012 11:06 AM (I2LwF)
I suspect the war will start when China's one-child policy comes to its natural end and there are over half a billion unemployed teenage boys with no women to marry, so they will do what a society of poor teenage boys with no prospects with women have done through time immorial - they will start plundering. Good luck Russia.
Oh and Russia's policy of not having children will reach its natural end too - as it will have no one to defend the homeland.
Posted by: SH at October 02, 2012 11:07 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Radar at October 02, 2012 11:07 AM (Z64pB)
Posted by: The Garbage Man at October 02, 2012 11:07 AM (R18D0)
All I know, wthout any degree in economics, is that it is costing me more and more just to buy gas and groceries. And I'm not getting any kind of raise.
If that is what a depression is, then I'm depressed.
Posted by: HH at October 02, 2012 11:07 AM (v+ExF)
Posted by: The littl shyning man at October 02, 2012 11:07 AM (PH+2B)
Posted by: Ball of Hate at October 02, 2012 11:07 AM (AREf/)
Yes, I'm a pedant.
Posted by: ToursLepantoVienna at October 02, 2012 03:04 PM (UlI/7)
--
Subtract federal stimulus dollars from the GDP numbers and recalculate.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at October 02, 2012 11:08 AM (Pixxe)
Posted by: Sophistahick at October 02, 2012 11:08 AM (UhXzR)
Posted by: Evilpens at October 02, 2012 11:08 AM (ck76k)
Posted by: The Next Ice Age at October 02, 2012 11:08 AM (MQLiy)
Posted by: comment that fits much better on this thread at October 02, 2012 11:08 AM (4eNxd)
And the ones who are under- or un-employed can barely do that.
Posted by: Radish the Grouch at October 02, 2012 11:08 AM (/kI1Q)
Good point. EU going down and the money is leaving. How soon before France puts caps on capital movement?
This is REALLY starting to look like the 30's and not in a good way.
Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at October 02, 2012 11:09 AM (wR+pz)
Posted by: The Robot Devil at October 02, 2012 11:09 AM (136wp)
Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at October 02, 2012 11:09 AM (feFL6)
US Unemployed and Underemployed Population: Are you fucking kidding?
Posted by: Exile at October 02, 2012 11:09 AM (GGCsk)
Really, you could transpose the names with a lot of the current players; and some of the people are actually relatives of current pols. Ickes the son is the one I recall off the top of my squash.
Posted by: jakeman at October 02, 2012 11:09 AM (96M6e)
Posted by: The Next Ice Age
They don't know yet. Should we tell them?
Posted by: SMOD at October 02, 2012 11:09 AM (VndSC)
Posted by: Cajun Carrot at October 02, 2012 11:09 AM (UZQM8)
hard depression for 4 years.
Posted by: The Next Ice Age at October 02, 2012 11:10 AM (MQLiy)
Posted by: Heat Death of the Universe at October 02, 2012 11:10 AM (136wp)
Posted by: eastvalleyphx says fuck islam at October 02, 2012 11:10 AM (GRvW4)
Posted by: Penfold at October 02, 2012 11:10 AM (1PeEC)
Posted by: Exile at October 02, 2012 11:10 AM (GGCsk)
Yep. I wonder if he realizes he just threw his party and his boss under the bus.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at October 02, 2012 11:11 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: JimboHoffa at October 02, 2012 11:11 AM (dAfqy)
$250k for a full grocery store in a town near by. I think they had a bakery inside.
http://tinyurl.com/8nw7ec5
Posted by: Buzzsaw at October 02, 2012 11:11 AM (tf9Ne)
Posted by: Cajun Carrot at October 02, 2012 11:11 AM (UZQM8)
I suspect the war will start when China's one-child policy comes to its natural end and there are over half a billion unemployed teenage boys with no women to marry, so they will do what a society of poorteenage boys with no prospects with women have done through time immorial - they will start plundering. Good luck Russia.
Oh and Russia's policy of not having children will reach its natural end too - as it will have no one to defend the homeland.
I wonder what the chinese father- russian mother folks are going to look like...
Posted by: Grey Fox at October 02, 2012 11:11 AM (SkN2R)
Oh and Russia's policy of not having children will reach its natural end too - as it will have no one to defend the homeland.
Posted by: SH at October 02, 2012 03:07 PM (gmeXX)
--
Russia has an unofficial policy, too - alcoholism. Life expectancy for a Russian male is around 50, and for females, 75. So, if the Chinese aren't too picky, Russia is full of opportunity.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at October 02, 2012 11:11 AM (Pixxe)
NRO link in my sig, with picture of Romney the Garbageman
Posted by: wooga at October 02, 2012 11:11 AM (vjyZP)
Posted by: Ian S. at October 02, 2012 11:11 AM (B/VB5)
Posted by: JEF at October 02, 2012 11:11 AM (AREf/)
Posted by: Cajun Carrot at October 02, 2012 11:11 AM (UZQM8)
It's a depression. I started preparing for it in 1993, when I read Harry S. Dent's book that predicted it (The Great Boom Ahead). Dent is great at the big picture, but been reviled for stock market misses. He also wrote in 92 with the DOW at 2,000 that it would hit 10,000 by 2000. He was roundly derided for that, but was right. Since then he has missed on stock movements pretty badly.
He wrote in 1992 that housing would crash in 2009 (close). He said we would see 4% mortgages by 2014, which I laughed at in 1993 (close).
Luckily I listened to most of what he wrote and prepared. That was good as I made my money in real estate.
Oh, he also predicted we wouldn't really come out of the depression until around 2022.
Obama didn't start the fire, he just made it worse.
Posted by: Meremortal at October 02, 2012 11:12 AM (1Y+hH)
Milton Friedman said it best:
Recessions are part of the normal business cycle. Depressions are always caused by bad government policy.
Posted by: rockmom at October 02, 2012 11:12 AM (qE3AR)
Posted by: fluffy at October 02, 2012 02:51 PM (3SvjA)
That whole thing is so stupid. I've lived in the same house for 12 years. I've given the trash guys Gatorade once. Any other time I've offered, they have they're own drink source in the truck.
Posted by: © Sponge at October 02, 2012 02:57 PM (UK9cE)
-------->>>>
I'm worse: lived in the same house in 1992 and have NEVER given the trash guys anything except a friendly hello. It's trash, it's not like there's a personal connection.
Now the guys putting the new roof and siding on my house: Mrs Cop baked those guys cookies and brownies. They're working on my house for almost two weeks and I want them to feel a personal connection so that they do a good job for me.
Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop posting from work at October 02, 2012 11:12 AM (3P3G8)
The house I just bought peaked $200k more than what I just paid for it -- so, still down 30% from the peak.
(Before you ask: California, and a short sale. I sold my old 1000-sq-ft hovel for $300k, so did OK.)
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at October 02, 2012 11:12 AM (4+LTj)
Posted by: Dr Spank at October 02, 2012 11:12 AM (0muQ0)
If you use the same methods of counting unemployment and inflation used in the 30s... we're almost as bad as then. What keeps it from getting that bad is the welfare state, which is preventing people from suffering as much as they would, all those subsidies prop up the system at the cost of debt.
What economists don't know - and nobody knows - is what happens to a nation that sustains debt higher than its GDP for too long. The last time we managed to pull out of it by being the only viable economy left on earth after WW2.
Then there's the aircraft bubble, the real estate problem (still out there, CRA is still forcing bad loans), and the looming trillion or so dollars locked up in the money the government holds in reserve for banks, about five times what it has ever held before. Nobody is sure what will happen with that, either.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at October 02, 2012 11:12 AM (r4wIV)
Posted by: A moustached man wearing an ascot and spats at October 02, 2012 11:12 AM (R18D0)
Posted by: backhoe at October 02, 2012 11:13 AM (ULH4o)
Yeah, but they had to knock $100,000 for being so close to Gaylord.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 02, 2012 11:13 AM (SY2Kh)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at October 02, 2012 11:13 AM (1Jaio)
Posted by: Ed Gibbon at October 02, 2012 11:13 AM (4eNxd)
Posted by: Unemployed since February at October 02, 2012 11:13 AM (06qTP)
Posted by: polynikes at October 02, 2012 11:13 AM (m2CN7)
Bullshit. The keyword above is 'appraiser'. Try and find a buyer for 50% of the appraised value. There aren't any.
I deal in these kinds of guitars and the prices are through the floor, not the roof. Have been since 2007.
Posted by: garrett at October 02, 2012 03:06 PM
Man no shit. I watched my stash go from retirement class to bowl of soup class.
Posted by: Berserker at October 02, 2012 11:14 AM (FMbng)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at October 02, 2012 11:14 AM (r4wIV)
We should be screaming about this.
Posted by: wheatie at October 02, 2012 02:59 PM (l5RhJ)
----------------------------------------------
People are. But it's like screaming at the coffin lid after being buried alive by Cloward-Piven.
It's the dem plan. Or as Beck has been saying the last five years, "The Perfect Storm".
Posted by: Soona at October 02, 2012 11:14 AM (S0iwx)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at October 02, 2012 11:14 AM (QupBk)
Yes, I'm a pedant.Posted by: ToursLepantoVienna
A lot of room in that pedancy.
The two quarters metric is what the NBER uses to make a pronouncement but in no shape or form are they the only source of economic analysis.
Economics isn't a science. It's quantified opinions.
Every economic school has their own set of models and metrics.
Read up at Mish's for other measures of a recession, one of which should be fucking obvious; UNEMPLOYMENT.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at October 02, 2012 11:15 AM (vY2x+)
Dr. Spank, I know this isn't a book thread, but another highly recommended read is "The Fourth Turning." Hide all of your sharp objects before commencing.
Posted by: jakeman at October 02, 2012 11:15 AM (96M6e)
Posted by: Evilpens at October 02, 2012 11:15 AM (ck76k)
From the OCED Observer:
"Indeed, by 2020, the surplus of Chinese males in their 20s will exceed the entire female population of Taiwan. The gender imbalance will get worse before it gets better; selective abortion is set to increase, not just for second and third births, but also for first births. This will cause social strains. Many young men will have to accept bachelorhood, a condition which often drives men to crime, even suicide and depression."
Yeah, I'm not really worried about increased suicide and depression. I'm more worried about what 40,000,000 males with no women will do.
Posted by: SH at October 02, 2012 11:15 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Screaming, Foaming Islamists from the 1100's at October 02, 2012 11:15 AM (71LDo)
Posted by: toby928© for TB
You know what they do to the chicken, right?
Posted by: Roy at October 02, 2012 11:15 AM (VndSC)
Posted by: Cajun Carrot at October 02, 2012 11:15 AM (UZQM8)
NRO link in my sig, with picture of Romney the Garbageman
Posted by: wooga
CHA-FUCKIN'-CHING!!! That's what I'm talkin' about! Dems stepping into their own snares and traps!!! Hell yeah!!!
Posted by: Dang© at October 02, 2012 11:15 AM (R18D0)
Now the banks will have even more cash to throw at the stock market now that Helicopter Ben has agreed to take all their worthless MBS derivatives off their hands
Posted by: kbdabear at October 02, 2012 11:15 AM (wwsoB)
Just watch any show about auctions, collectibles, or pawning. Every single one is about how the market has cratered and they can't get what they used to. People have to cut back. Even the coffee industry isn't doing as well, people aren't buying as much.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at October 02, 2012 11:16 AM (r4wIV)
I would prefer the term "downturn" because I think we're still in the same recession -- or depression -- that started in 2008.
But TIME can't use "downturn," because that would mean they were giving tacit agreement to the idea that we never got out of the recession. That's unacceptable, you see, because the Preezy has ASSURED us many times that the economy is booming, and TIME must do everything it can to support the Preezy's self-congratulatory narrative.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter [/b][/i][/u] at October 02, 2012 11:16 AM (4df7R)
However I have two frineds still living in CA. One bought a house about 10 years ago for 300K, it is now about $150K if she cold sell it. He neighborhood is full of repo homes.
The other bought a condo near LA for $300K and it too has dropped out the bottom.
So I know CA is still the suck.
Posted by: Vic at October 02, 2012 11:16 AM (YdQQY)
Anybody got a picture of a piece of celery on a plate and one of those poor kids from a Sally Struthers ad?
These kids are already knocking over Mickey D's after school. Are they shooting for an all-out riot?
http://tinyurl.com/9kxpp9d
Posted by: Exile at October 02, 2012 11:16 AM (GGCsk)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 02, 2012 11:16 AM (oSFWF)
And a crisis brewing in the South China Sea.
I don't think the Chicom plan is to drown all those guys.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at October 02, 2012 11:16 AM (4+LTj)
Posted by: The Chicken at October 02, 2012 11:16 AM (UZQM8)
Plus it felt good to do something that TFG told me not to do, but has done himself.
Posted by: Penfold at October 02, 2012 11:16 AM (1PeEC)
Posted by: Navycopjoe (iphone5 snob) at October 02, 2012 11:17 AM (EvEIZ)
One internetz fine. No turn in the barrel since your failure to close your tag properly didn't affect anyone else.
Also because I'm pretty sure we stuffed Jon and RC both in there already, so it would be a little crowded.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at October 02, 2012 11:17 AM (8y9MW)
Wow, that's got to hurt. Counting how quick the garbage man ad disappears?
Also, bet's Hannity runs the ad and then Mitts picture tonight?
I'd say 100-1
Keep fucking that chicken boys.
Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at October 02, 2012 11:17 AM (wR+pz)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at October 02, 2012 11:17 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Admiral James T Kirk at October 02, 2012 11:17 AM (wwsoB)
But Gaylord has a beautiful lake. The lake is named titloe which I think is Indian for old lady boobehs
Posted by: Buzzsaw at October 02, 2012 11:18 AM (tf9Ne)
Posted by: Beagle at October 02, 2012 11:18 AM (sOtz/)
If you use the same methods of counting unemployment and inflation used in the 30s... we're almost as bad as then. What keeps it from getting that bad is the welfare state, which is preventing people from suffering as much as they would, all those subsidies prop up the system at the cost of debt.
What economists don't know - and nobody knows - is what happens to a nation that sustains debt higher than its GDP for too long. The last time we managed to pull out of it by being the only viable economy left on earth after WW2.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at October 02, 2012 03:12 PM (r4wIV)
--
Excellent post. One can see the bad government policy right in front of our eyes: Bad tax policy, socialized medicine, taxing job creators, an explosion of federal paperwork for job producers, no federal budget for four $#%^ years, QE out the kazoo.....
As far as what happens to a nation that sustains debt higher than GDP for too long - see Japan.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at October 02, 2012 11:18 AM (Pixxe)
Posted by: tofer732 at October 02, 2012 11:19 AM (2zM0P)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at October 02, 2012 11:19 AM (r4wIV)
Posted by: The littl shyning man at October 02, 2012 11:19 AM (PH+2B)
We aren't so funny now, Mr. Round Eye. Are we?
Posted by: Japanese sex bot engineer [/i] [/b] at October 02, 2012 11:19 AM (vY2x+)
Yeah, I'm not really worried about increased suicide and depression. I'm more worried about what 40,000,000 males with no women will do.
That's why they want to invade Japan: Robot hookers.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at October 02, 2012 11:19 AM (lOmbq)
Some wag recently wrote that Ben is printing money that nobody wants.
So it can't work.
Things wouldn't be great, but would be improved IF someone would approve and fastrack the pipeline, fire Bernanke and cut onerous regulations while regulating govt, the biggest business of all (though organized religion might give govt a good run for its' money).
Posted by: Meremortal at October 02, 2012 11:20 AM (1Y+hH)
<NRO link in my sig, with picture of Romney the Garbageman>
THAT RIGHT THERE IS FRONT PAGE WORTHY.
Posted by: Exile at October 02, 2012 11:20 AM (GGCsk)
Posted by: Reality Fuhrer at October 02, 2012 11:20 AM (tG36f)
The fed should be obliterated, not audited.
Posted by: Vic at October 02, 2012 11:20 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at October 02, 2012 03:14 PM (QupBk)[i/]
ROTFLMFAO! This is why I love the HQ.
Posted by: JimboHoffa at October 02, 2012 11:21 AM (dAfqy)
Posted by: Soothsayer in Flamingo Kid at October 02, 2012 11:21 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: SH at October 02, 2012 11:21 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: The littl shyning man at October 02, 2012 11:22 AM (PH+2B)
That's the hideous secret of this depression as well. Without the TARP bailouts, GM takeover stimulus and the Quantitative Easings, we would have seen huge companies collapse, massive layoffs, and a crashing stock market... but by now it would have been turning around and things would be healing rapidly.
Instead we got less of a crash, fewer companies collapsing, and fewer layoffs, but extended misery and a likely bigger crash coming.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at October 02, 2012 11:22 AM (r4wIV)
The Ferengi rules of acquisition need to be applied.
#22 A wise man can hear profit in the wind.
What I hear is a
We WILL become a nation of smugglers before this is all over. Its inevitable.
Posted by: @PurpAv at October 02, 2012 11:22 AM (MQLiy)
Posted by: Sophistahick at October 02, 2012 11:22 AM (UhXzR)
I'd say 100-1
Keep fucking that chicken boys.
Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at October 02, 2012 03:17 PM
Then Karl THE ARCHITECT Rove will come on the show to call the ad a clincher for Obama, Mitt's campaign is in disarray, and it's time to prepare for Jeb Bush 2016.
Posted by: Admiral James T Kirk at October 02, 2012 11:22 AM (wwsoB)
Posted by: Grey Fox at October 02, 2012 03:11 PM (SkN2R)
------------------------------------------
If the women turn out anything like the French/Vietnamese mix I saw in Vietnam, then the female side of that equation will be smokin' hawt.
Posted by: Soona at October 02, 2012 11:22 AM (S0iwx)
1 internetz, please.
Man, at this rate, Ace might be able to afford some real blog software.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at October 02, 2012 11:22 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: epic denial at October 02, 2012 11:23 AM (LpQbZ)
Huh. I was told abortion would end crime.
o.O
Posted by: Radish the Grouch at October 02, 2012 11:23 AM (/kI1Q)
159...Obama didn't start the fire, he just made it worse.
Well, he 'agitated it' pretty good....in 1995...when he and ACORN sued Citibank to force them to make subprime loans to poor people.
The trail of 'what kickstarted the housing boom'...leads up to that point.
Barky's lawsuit sent out shockwaves, in the banking industry.
The message was received.
"Make loans to people with bad credit, who can't afford their payments...or you will be sued into oblivion and branded 'racist'."
The shakedown was successful.
And banks are still making subprime loans!
Posted by: wheatie at October 02, 2012 11:24 AM (l5RhJ)
Posted by: The MFM at October 02, 2012 11:24 AM (bzWd8)
Which is the exact opposite of the stated policy and speeches of the Obama White House.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at October 02, 2012 11:24 AM (r4wIV)
Posted by: JimboHoffa at October 02, 2012 11:24 AM (dAfqy)
Posted by: Soothie at October 02, 2012 11:24 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at October 02, 2012 03:14 PM (QupBk)
Please gawd, no...
Posted by: The Chicken at October 02, 2012 03:16 PM (UZQM
You guys crack me up. Keeps me sane in the dark times!
Posted by: Jinx the Cat at October 02, 2012 11:24 AM (l3vZN)
Shit is going to get real, real soon.
Popcorn!
Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at October 02, 2012 11:25 AM (wR+pz)
Smuggling. Its an old school and proven method. The Kennedy's built a dynasty upon it.
Posted by: @PurpAv at October 02, 2012 11:25 AM (MQLiy)
Like dark haired Russian girls right now. Russians were blonde before the Mongols invaded...
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at October 02, 2012 11:25 AM (r4wIV)
Posted by: Soothie at October 02, 2012 11:26 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: polynikes at October 02, 2012 11:26 AM (m2CN7)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at October 02, 2012 11:27 AM (r4wIV)
True dat, BUT now farmers have the EPA, Dept of Ag, etc fucking up their production.
I think I'd take the dust bowl over that.
Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at October 02, 2012 11:27 AM (wR+pz)
Let's ask the Delta Smelt about that, shall we?
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at October 02, 2012 11:27 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: wheatie at October 02, 2012 03:24 PM (l5RhJ)
The roots of this depression are demographic, just like Japan's problem. China will enter the same thing soon.
Obama did make things much worse, and caused the real estate market to crash a little sooner than it would have anyway. Things could be better with proper policies, but we still have another 10 years of difficult times regardlesss.
Posted by: Meremortal at October 02, 2012 11:28 AM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: Mark Rubio's Former Garbageman at October 02, 2012 11:28 AM (/ZZCn)
Posted by: epic denial at October 02, 2012 11:29 AM (LpQbZ)
Posted by: Bawney Franks at October 02, 2012 11:29 AM (tG36f)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at October 02, 2012 11:29 AM (r4wIV)
221....We WILL become a nation of smugglers before this is all over. Its inevitable.
It's what always happens...under Socialism.
Socialism is anti-consumer.
Free enterprise goes undercover, as smuggling.
Smuggling was rampant in the USSR.
Posted by: wheatie at October 02, 2012 11:29 AM (l5RhJ)
Posted by: Evilpens at October 02, 2012 11:29 AM (ck76k)
Maybe you can be the smugglers ring leader. Are you detail oriented?
Posted by: Buzzsaw at October 02, 2012 11:29 AM (tf9Ne)
How about some up beat shit.
Joe Biden made an asshole out of himself again, he spoke in public.
Guess that's not a shocker.
Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at October 02, 2012 11:29 AM (wR+pz)
Posted by: Sophistahick at October 02, 2012 11:29 AM (UhXzR)
E-book publishing. Even if you don't sell that many, the profit is mostly yours.
Me? I'm trying to write apps.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at October 02, 2012 11:30 AM (4+LTj)
Posted by: Delta Smelt and the EP Fucking Eh! at October 02, 2012 11:30 AM (UZQM8)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at October 02, 2012 11:30 AM (QupBk)
Posted by: SH at October 02, 2012 11:30 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Clean up on aisle White House at October 02, 2012 11:31 AM (LpQbZ)
The MSM won't declare it a recession until Day 1 of a Romney presidency. Thereafter it shall be called "The Romney/Ryan Recession".
Posted by: SouthofReality at October 02, 2012 11:31 AM (E86oe)
Posted by: Eddard Stark at October 02, 2012 11:31 AM (UZQM8)
If we can get a successful bidnissman in the White House and if he can get the policies we all know will get the economy turned around in place, then we can get back to our old lives again.
Four years of shitty, anti-capitalist, leftarded policy is all it took to get us here. Four more years will finally finish us off.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at October 02, 2012 11:31 AM (lOmbq)
If I could get me a nice 3D printer and a ton of that goo I could make all kinds of handy things but that's a pretty substantial outlay of cash still. Five years from now I think it will become a lot more reasonable, assuming no disaster.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at October 02, 2012 11:31 AM (r4wIV)
Posted by: rickb223 at October 02, 2012 11:32 AM (GFM2b)
A total fucking idiot!
Meanwhile, the current top headline at Politico asks whether the Boomers see Biden as a sex symbol.- http://bit.ly/QGzeJc (Ricochet)
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at October 02, 2012 11:32 AM (YjDyJ)
You can blame the proximate causation on Countrywide (remember them?). And it wasn't a conspiracy, it was stupidity. I worked for one of their vendors at the time, and they'd been having trouble for a little while before they crashed.
All it takes is a single card in the wrong place, and the whole construct falls down.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at October 02, 2012 11:32 AM (8y9MW)
They're all Keynesians it's all about circular flow and multipliers.
Just get a huge pile of money out there it doesn't matter where it will 'stimulate' the economy and keep pumping it until it gets the 'spark'
Then they ease off on the pump.
The only problem is the economy has become so distorted and imbalanced that when the FED pump stops it's going to precipitate a calamitous collapse.
Posted by: General Woundwort at October 02, 2012 11:32 AM (06lNq)
The rest of the economy will start recovering when Romney takes office and starts killing the 6000 regulations per month Obama implemented including healthsteal.
Posted by: Vic at October 02, 2012 11:33 AM (YdQQY)
I think people will give up their cable before their internet.
That said, I'm thinking the internet most folks will still have will be tied to their phones, and not "land" lines.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at October 02, 2012 11:33 AM (4+LTj)
Posted by: Soothie at October 02, 2012 11:33 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: Clean up on aisle White House
Didn't the White House send the Dali Lama out to hug the garbage man?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQEuN2la4YI
Posted by: Ewok at October 02, 2012 11:34 AM (R18D0)
Posted by: Jay Guevara at October 02, 2012 11:34 AM (U+DUu)
The only problem is the economy has become so distorted and imbalanced that when the FED pump stops it's going to precipitate a calamitous collapse.
There are still a few quadrillion of us around to help out.
Posted by: Zimbabwe Dollars at October 02, 2012 11:34 AM (VndSC)
Posted by: Mr. Dave in SPI at October 02, 2012 11:34 AM (OBDWE)
Posted by: kbdabear at October 02, 2012 11:34 AM (wwsoB)
Odd how these government programs intended to enrich political contributors, I mean help the economy always seem to end up making the economic downturn last longer, if not permanently.
To me it's a scandal that you can shop consumer solar and not find a single place selling solar panels made in the US, but we'll have to shell out billions more graft money for Obama in the guise of green energy.
Posted by: Beagle at October 02, 2012 11:34 AM (sOtz/)
Posted by: Soothie at October 02, 2012 11:35 AM (jUytm)
Come to think of it, the definition of a recession - two negative GDP growth quarters on a row - is probably predicated on the idea that you actually get a recovery afterwards. This has been essentially a "recovery-less recession".
The recovery was probably trashed by ObamaCare, combine with other feats of economic terrorism.
I can't believe TFG might is still in the running for re-election. With three scandals going on now, too - two of them pretty big ones (Beghazi plus F and F), plus the new thing about defense lay-offs.
Posted by: Optimizer at October 02, 2012 11:35 AM (As94z)
my God. we raise tobacco here in Lunenburg Co Va. these farmers are doing great!
Posted by: kelley in virginia at October 02, 2012 11:35 AM (HNwOT)
I consider it a victory when I can find a light bulb made in Mexico instead of China.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at October 02, 2012 11:35 AM (4+LTj)
I still want to know who or what caused the housing crisis to trigger when it did. It was bound to eventually, but something made it happen just when McCain was surging in the polls. Coincidentally.
Do you really want to know? If so, then click my nic, go to my place and search for "Paper Blood." There's a link inside that post that goes to a report that outlines the economic warfare that led to timing of the housing crash.
Read it and weep for our country. All this could've been avoided had we the right people in office.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at October 02, 2012 11:35 AM (lOmbq)
The New York State and New York City governments are doing great; the feds are getting a cut as well. At least 3/4 the price of a pack in NYC is taxes.
Posted by: Radish the Grouch at October 02, 2012 11:36 AM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: Optimizer at October 02, 2012 11:36 AM (As94z)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at October 02, 2012 11:36 AM (6JIT8)
Sure, but why then? It could possibly just be astounding coincidence but I'm highly, highly skeptical that it happened at such a perfect time to help Obama win.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at October 02, 2012 11:37 AM (r4wIV)
I actually blame the repeal of Glass Steagall, which I supported at the time.
Banks simply went to the fed to buy chips and gamble. Credit Default swaps backed by an organization that can not over the bet, AIG. That shit should have been stopped, or those involved should have gone bankrupt.
Don't mine risk, but you play your cards and you don't ask someone else to cover your loses, you fold.
Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at October 02, 2012 11:37 AM (wR+pz)
Posted by: Clean up on aisle White House at October 02, 2012 11:37 AM (LpQbZ)
Posted by: SH at October 02, 2012 03:30 PM (gmeXX)
Bull. Maybe some things from the business world don't translate like growing your workforce and providing a return to investors. But being able to manage and lead sure as hell does translate, and Obama has zero ability to do that. His ideology and experience both suck.
Posted by: Barack 'A Model Idiot' Obama at October 02, 2012 11:38 AM (8J5Ck)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at October 02, 2012 11:39 AM (6JIT8)
Or, fisherman, coming home with the day's catch.Posted by: Clean up on aisle White House at October 02, 2012 11:39 AM (LpQbZ)
267...All it takes is a single card in the wrong place, and the whole construct falls down.
Gas prices.
Gas prices were that card.
Gas prices went up...suddenly...in 2008.
All those people who had to comute to work, from their house in the suburbs...were suddenly having to decide whether to pay their mortgages...or put gas in their cars.
So many of those mortgages were dependent on two incomes.
That was usually...two cars...doing a daily commute, at jobs miles away from each other.
Higher gas prices were a big part of the crash in 2008.
Posted by: wheatie at October 02, 2012 11:40 AM (l5RhJ)
Posted by: andycanuck at October 02, 2012 11:40 AM (vDl/w)
I have two books published, one on ebook. The problem is, I suspect the days of "everyone has the internet" might be waning soon. And will people buy good ol' books then?
---------------------------------------------------
Seriously, if Baraka gets four more years, we won't have the internet as we know it now. It'll be one of the first EO's that he'll sign.
Posted by: Soona at October 02, 2012 11:40 AM (S0iwx)
Posted by: polynikes at October 02, 2012 11:41 AM (m2CN7)
"Last depression comic books became huge."
So did jigsaw puzzles and games. Just think home entertainment without real outside power.
Posted by: HH at October 02, 2012 11:42 AM (v+ExF)
Posted by: polynikes at October 02, 2012 11:44 AM (m2CN7)
For example, The treasury borrowing money that does not exist from the Federal Reserve. Not Chinese loans, just "here, I'll just type in a number" fake dollars. They aren't even bothering to print it. Romney is more likely to cut that back or end it than Obama, and its making things seem like they can be sustained a bit longer. But doing so would cause catastrophe.
Posted by: Leftist Twat at October 02, 2012 11:46 AM (r4wIV)
Indeed, its not like there's budgets to be managed, deadlines to be met, personnel issues, delegation of authority, negotiations with competitors, and shit like that involved.
Posted by: @PurpAv at October 02, 2012 11:47 AM (MQLiy)
Posted by: HH at October 02, 2012 03:42 PM (v+ExF)
-----------------------------------------------
It's funny, but during the 30's dust bowl here in OK my mom would trap and then breed squirrels and prairie dogs and then raise the babies as pets. Then she'd take them to town and sell them.
Posted by: Soona at October 02, 2012 11:47 AM (S0iwx)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at October 02, 2012 11:48 AM (lOmbq)
Posted by: @PurpAv at October 02, 2012 11:50 AM (MQLiy)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at October 02, 2012 11:50 AM (r4wIV)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at October 02, 2012 11:52 AM (QupBk)
Posted by: JeffC at October 02, 2012 11:53 AM (A3tpD)
Everyone I know was saying that a crash was coming inevitably from people getting too much house for them to pay for. I'm sure gas prices did impact the crash.
But why that exact timing?? Why did the gas prices cause it to crash then instead of earlier or later?
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at October 02, 2012 11:58 AM (r4wIV)
Posted by: backhoe at October 02, 2012 11:59 AM (ULH4o)
Posted by: pray for peace at October 02, 2012 12:10 PM (oZfic)
309...But why that exact timing?? Why did the gas prices cause it to crash then instead of earlier or later?
Ding. Ding. Ding.
Good question.
There was a sudden run up in oil speculation...rapid buying.
It was explained as..."speculators fear that there will be oil shortages".
But the shortages never happened.
Even though Bush did that largely symbolic stroke of the pen, and repealed some of the restrictions on offshore drilling....the shortages never happened.
Posted by: wheatie at October 02, 2012 12:10 PM (l5RhJ)
Romney should make the case against Obama's inflation. This is something "Main Street" will understand instinctively, it costs A LOT more to fill up the tank and get groceries then it did 3 and half years ago, and this is ALL for the benefit of Big Banks and Wall Street.
Also, ask retirees how they feel about zero rate interest rate policy and what that has done to their retirement?
Romney is not going to be able to win this by just pointing out job numbers.
Posted by: McAdams at October 02, 2012 12:13 PM (0kf1G)
Posted by: gmannyc at October 02, 2012 12:25 PM (VT1dH)
Posted by: steevy at October 02, 2012 12:31 PM (6o4Fb)
Posted by: MrHobbit at October 02, 2012 12:34 PM (sbaXF)
And it is continuing to get worse.
Posted by: Vic at October 02, 2012 02:47 PM (YdQQY)
As usual, you beat me to it Vic! How the D's can think this is a good thing is because of priorities. They think punishing the evil rich to keep poor people poor is more important than security. Insane.
Posted by: Amy Shulkusky at October 02, 2012 12:46 PM (uMfFZ)
House prices peaked around 2005 where I live...then sales fell off. It took forever for the flippers and Realtwhores to accept it. Pity the poor bastards who thought they were getting in at the bottom in 2007.
Posted by: jeanne at October 02, 2012 12:47 PM (GdalM)
It's a normal, everyday, economy controlled by a central planning authority, one with the power of law and guns behind it.
It's the Soviet Union in the 1970s.
Posted by: PJ at October 02, 2012 12:47 PM (DQHjw)
Posted by: The 24/7 On-call President at October 02, 2012 12:56 PM (gd2iD)
Investors aren't going to risk billions upon billions to try and engineer a collapse, a liberal money manager would be better off just cutting big checks to all sorts of liberal groups (like Soros does) than possibly ending his career by financially wiping himself and his clients out. you saw what happened to Corzine when he made a big bet on Europe.
It was clear to anyone that there was a massive bubble in real estate in 2007, and once the global economy starts growing again, we will have a shortage of oil that will send prices skyrocketing that will probably put us right back in a recession. I see gas easily being over $5 a gallon in 2 years.
Posted by: McAdams at October 02, 2012 12:56 PM (0kf1G)
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Posted by: Highsmith at October 02, 2012 10:46 AM (uwaMU)