April 14, 2012
— andy 100 years ago today, RMS Titanic struck the iceberg that would end her maiden voyage and forever disassociate the words "unsinkable" and "ship".
The exact number of passengers and crew aboard remains in dispute to this day, but in round numbers approximately 1,500 of the 2,200 people aboard the ship were lost.
There have been a couple of good new documentaries on NatGeo this week if you're interested in this sort of thing. Even the James Cameron one is good, despite the fact that his most notable association with Titanic is through that godawful movie he made.
If you watch the Cameron one, the last five minutes or so are truly remarkable, as he segues from Titanic to global warming by taking the exact wrong message from the disaster. Man can no more control the temperature of the planet than he can build an unsinkable ship.
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Posted by: Y-not at April 14, 2012 07:21 AM (5H6zj)
Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston would be forever alone without AoS at April 14, 2012 07:21 AM (KCvsd)
Posted by: OregonMuse at April 14, 2012 07:24 AM (avUWP)
I'm sincerely glad you spoiled the Cameron documentary for me. Now that I know, no way in hell am I gonna watch.
Posted by: the new, improved arhooley -- now with 10% more cynicism! at April 14, 2012 07:25 AM (vuKmj)
Posted by: soothsayer at April 14, 2012 07:25 AM (jUytm)
The Titanic's A deck was enclosed about 2/3 of the length, while the Olympic's A deck was open the whole length
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 07:27 AM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: Gromulin at April 14, 2012 07:27 AM (7Zrx4)
Ha! Sorry.
It really is pretty good, though. Up until then, I mean.
One good thing about that shitty movie is that he made enough money from repeat viewing by 12-year old girls to actually do some pretty good science on the shipwreck.
Posted by: Andy at April 14, 2012 07:28 AM (XG+Mn)
Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo-intellectual at April 14, 2012 11:26 AM
-----------------
They insult him on the first page of the article.
Posted by: the new, improved arhooley -- now with 10% more cynicism! at April 14, 2012 07:28 AM (vuKmj)
Posted by: The Media/Left at April 14, 2012 07:29 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at April 14, 2012 07:31 AM (GTbGH)
Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at April 14, 2012 07:31 AM (DGIjM)
Posted by: Soothsayer at April 14, 2012 07:32 AM (jUytm)
The media wasn't all that accurate back then either
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 07:32 AM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: USS Diversity at April 14, 2012 07:32 AM (vpe0k)
Posted by: a strip of bacon at April 14, 2012 07:33 AM (QTHTd)
Its personal stories.
Not sure what channel it was one.
Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at April 14, 2012 11:31 AM (DGIjM)
It was on PBS. He was a welder for the builder
Posted by: Panzer Cat at April 14, 2012 07:33 AM (cYQg0)
It's on DVD. I gotta watch it again, the anti-capitalism stuff is so over the top it's comic.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at April 14, 2012 07:34 AM (/kI1Q)
An Arrest has been made in the Baltimore Beatdown Of White Man By Black Mob
tweeted by Pat Dollard
Posted by: mama winger at April 14, 2012 07:35 AM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: Sandra Fluke's solid gold diaphragm at April 14, 2012 07:35 AM (0d0K7)
Posted by: rickl supports SMOD/Supervolcano 2012 at April 14, 2012 07:35 AM (sdi6R)
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 07:36 AM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: rickl supports SMOD/Supervolcano 2012 at April 14, 2012 07:37 AM (sdi6R)
Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at April 14, 2012 07:37 AM (DGIjM)
Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at April 14, 2012 07:37 AM (GTbGH)
Posted by: Soothsayer Lightfoot at April 14, 2012 07:37 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: rickl supports SMOD/Supervolcano 2012 at April 14, 2012 07:38 AM (sdi6R)
Posted by: rickl supports SMOD/Supervolcano 2012 at April 14, 2012 07:40 AM (sdi6R)
The only real problem was that it had that Celine Dion song. That's a huge problem.
Posted by: Dustin at April 14, 2012 07:41 AM (z36s0)
75 percent of young people polled today believe that to be the cause, and who are you wingnuts to deny polls!!!
Posted by: James Fuckin' Cameron at April 14, 2012 07:41 AM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: The littl shyning man at April 14, 2012 07:42 AM (ndp2I)
Posted by: Soothsayer at April 14, 2012 07:42 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 14, 2012 07:44 AM (r4wIV)
He turns a lesson on the dangers of hubris into "we're ignoring the warnings". You know, like faked data, models that utterly fail to have predictive value and the lack of actual warming for the last 10 years while CO2 emissions have increased. Warnings like that.
It's straight out of the "Two Days Before the Day After Tomorrow" episode of South Park. We were warned this would happen, and we didn't listen!
Posted by: Andy at April 14, 2012 07:44 AM (XG+Mn)
Posted by: HRH Titanic Failure at April 14, 2012 07:45 AM (FcR7P)
Damn. If only global warming had melted those icebergs a little earlier.
Posted by: The 1500 at April 14, 2012 07:45 AM (zw+pb)
This is not Titanic, but you must watch this! Really powerful video from Catholics re: the election.
Posted by: Timwi at April 14, 2012 07:45 AM (pdhxN)
Posted by: Soothsayer at April 14, 2012 07:45 AM (jUytm)
The arrest was big on our local Baltimore news last night.
But, there might be a little bit of the story that is being downplayed.
Initial reports said that at the end of the one original video, that the victim received a final insult of being teabagged by one of our fine urban utes.
Funny that apparently a black male is video taped inserting his scrotum into the mouth of an unconscious white male assault victim, and the news sort of misses that part.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 14, 2012 07:46 AM (FEUhD)
Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at April 14, 2012 07:47 AM (DGIjM)
Posted by: Soothsayer at April 14, 2012 07:47 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: Retread at April 14, 2012 07:48 AM (joSBv)
Posted by: Soothsayer at April 14, 2012 07:48 AM (jUytm)
Fast forward to the OT in this thread and talk of degenerates 'tea-bagging' a man they beat into oblivion.
I think I'd rather live in 1912.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at April 14, 2012 07:49 AM (Z+Q/A)
Posted by: Count de Monet at April 14, 2012 07:50 AM (4q5tP)
8 Never saw Titanic and never will.
I did. ....It was a love story. Disillusioned rich girl, falls in love with cute, witty poor boy. ....The ship sinks. The boy dies.
Posted by: wheatie at April 14, 2012 07:50 AM (+5U+B)
Posted by: t-bird at April 14, 2012 07:50 AM (FcR7P)
Posted by: eman at April 14, 2012 07:51 AM (SkRNT)
Posted by: Lincolntf at April 14, 2012 07:51 AM (hiMsy)
There were not enough lifeboats on the Titanic and the owners of the Titanic had provided enough lifeboats to satisfy the current regulatory standard but no more. The regulators themselves were complacent and those building the Titanic were content to provide what was officially necessary rather than what might have been prudent. Regulation, one could say, had made them complacent.
This is a distressingly common problem. Governments find it easy to implement regulations but tedious to maintain existing ones—politicians gain little political benefit from updating old laws, only from introducing new laws.
And regulated entities tend to comply with the specifics of the regulations, not with the goal of the regulations themselves. All too often, once government takes over, what was private risk management becomes regulatory compliance.
It's easy to weave the Titanic disaster into a seductive tale of hubris, social stratification and capitalist excess. But the Titanic's chroniclers tend to put their moral narrative ahead of their historical one.
At the accident's core is this reality: British regulators assumed responsibility for lifeboat numbers and then botched that responsibility. With a close reading of the evidence, it is hard not to see the Titanic disaster as a tragic example of government failure.
Here we see, once again, that regulation has results that are far different than might have been expected. Regulatory authorities have allowed regulations to be used to create a faux-industry that likely would not otherwise exist – or certainly not in its current brazen condition.
In the modern age's hyper-regulatory environment, such distortions prosper because regulations undermine private watchdog efforts without effectively replacing them.
Ultimately, every regulation is a price fix – transferring wealth from those who create it to those who don't and may not know how to use it. Regulations, by definition, create market distortions. Markets work better than government. Private sector competition is surely preferable to dysfunctional regulation.
The 20th century saw the overwhelming growth of "regulatory democracy." Hopefully, the 21st century shall moderate (or even reverse) this growth.
Posted by: sickinmass at April 14, 2012 07:51 AM (bcNec)
Posted by: Soothsayer at April 14, 2012 07:52 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: rickl supports SMOD/Supervolcano 2012 at April 14, 2012 07:52 AM (sdi6R)
Absolutely true.
The oddest of these to me on Titanic is that the glancing blow they made on the iceberg did her in, but if they had rammed straight into the 'berg the ship would have been badly damaged but would likely have stayed afloat.
Posted by: Andy at April 14, 2012 07:52 AM (XG+Mn)
Posted by: rickl supports SMOD/Supervolcano 2012 at April 14, 2012 11:40 AM
Actually it wasn't the top of the line in technology or safety, it was just the biggest because use of the A deck for the Cafe Parisien enabled it to statistically add 1,000 gross register tons (useable interior space) over her twin sister the Olympic. It was the most luxurious
The Cunard twins of Mauritania and Lusitania had double hulls all the way up to the main deck, while the Titanic had only a double bottom. The watertight bulkheads on the Cunards also extended up to the main deck, while Titanic's only reached E deck. The reason was that Cunard was British owned and subsidized and had to meet those requirements as they were subject to appropriation by the Royal Navy for wartime. The White Star Line was American owned and therefore not subject to those hull requirements.
As for technology, the Cunards used four steam turbine engines while the Titanic used one turbine and 2 old style reciprocating (piston) steam engines.
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 07:53 AM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: Timwi at April 14, 2012 11:45 AM (pdhxN)
I'm Catholic. I bristle at ads like that. It feels patronizing, and I certainly don't need three minutes of a "Game of Thrones" forge scene to get my dander up over governmental intrusions on religion. I appreciate the attempt, but the ad is a big "FAIL" in my book - I watched for about twenty seconds and then started skipping ahead to figure out where it would get interesting. It didn't.
Posted by: Jazz at April 14, 2012 07:54 AM (NzrVU)
Colonel Gracie denied that the band was playing "Nearer, My God to Thee" at the end. He said that the whole point of the music was to keep passengers calm; to start playing that hymn would be an indication of impending death, and could have started a panic.
As a drama, Cameron's "Titanic" is terrible, but as far as what happened to the ship goes, it was quite good. And he had the money to do things that amounted to recreating parts of the disaster. There's a scene which shows the empty dining room filling up with water. All the tables are set for the next morning's breakfast, and as the water gets higher, the place settings start floating! We even hear the plates clinking gently as they strike against each other. No one was in the dining room by that point, so there are no witnesses to what happened, but by building a model of the dining room and actually flooding it, we can see what was happening even where there were no people to experience it.
Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at April 14, 2012 07:54 AM (KOHFD)
>>There were not enough lifeboats on the Titanic
Sure about that? One thing I do know, they didn't bother learning how to use the lifeboats. They were actually built to hold something like 64 people each but no one knew, so some of them were launched with only about 12 people in them.
Posted by: the new, improved arhooley -- now with 10% more cynicism! at April 14, 2012 07:55 AM (vuKmj)
Posted by: Lauren at April 14, 2012 07:56 AM (F8LL/)
Posted by: Justamom at April 14, 2012 07:59 AM (Sptt8)
-------------------------
The U.S. regulatory system is a frakin disaster itself. Regulations never accomplish what they are supposedly written for. In today's environment there may even be a regulation requiring life boat capacity equal to the number of passengers. What that means is that there will be a check mark on a form that must be submitted to the regulatory agency saying that they have said life boats.
Honest cruise ships will have that capacity, crooked ships will simply check off the form and don't care. after all filling out forms costs money and life boats are unnecessary unless the ship sinks or catches on fire and that never happens.
Posted by: Vic at April 14, 2012 07:59 AM (YdQQY)
>>I was assigned a passenger identity at the beginning
Hmm, kind of a good gimmick.
Maybe they should do that in Holocaust museums.
Posted by: the new, improved arhooley -- now with 10% more cynicism! at April 14, 2012 08:01 AM (vuKmj)
Posted by: eman at April 14, 2012 08:02 AM (SkRNT)
Posted by: rickl supports SMOD/Supervolcano 2012 at April 14, 2012 08:02 AM (sdi6R)
45 http://youtu.be/D9vQt6IXXaM
This is not Titanic, but you must watch this! Really powerful video from Catholics re: the election.
------
Good video. ....I'm not Catholic....but anything that helps wake people up and helps us get rid of Barky, is a good thing.
Posted by: wheatie at April 14, 2012 08:03 AM (+5U+B)
Our heroin Rose, to be blunt, was a complete and total c-word. She laid there, floating on that door and let her 'love' just turn into an icicle. Cruel bitch.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at April 14, 2012 08:03 AM (Z+Q/A)
---------------
Reminds me when we were on line for Gangs of NY and two old Italian couples are in front of us. One old guy says "It's about the Irish."
Posted by: real joe at April 14, 2012 08:04 AM (w7Lv+)
Posted by: Retread at April 14, 2012 08:04 AM (joSBv)
Maybe they should do that in Holocaust museums.
Not sure if you are saying that because you already know this, but they do that at the National Holocaust Museum in DC. It is really haunting actually to find out what happens to your identity. Of course I went about 3 months into the museum being opened, so maybe they don't do it anymore.
Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at April 14, 2012 08:05 AM (RZ8pf)
Posted by: rickl supports SMOD/Supervolcano 2012 at April 14, 2012 08:05 AM (sdi6R)
Posted by: Andy at April 14, 2012 11:52 AM
That's speculation due to what happened to a similar ship when it hit an iceberg head on. The Titanic was moving a much larger bulk at a much faster speed, and an iceberg doesn't usually have a straight wall like a cliff. The ship could have rolled if it hit straight on.
Bill Paxton's line in the movie pretty much summed up why the accident happened in the first place; "Smith figured that anything big enough to sink the ship he'd see in time to turn"
Moonless night, very unusual calm for the North Atlantic which didn't create visual breakers on the iceberg, and cold water air refraction contributed to them not seeing the berg in time to avoid it. As it was, a few seconds earlier and it would have just been a close call.
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 08:07 AM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: eman at April 14, 2012 08:08 AM (SkRNT)
And now an actual Titanic thread where I can post the weird Titanic conspiracy theory I heard on the Medved show this week. I know I posted it before but it seems appropriate here too. What's interesting to me is that right away after the Titanic disaster there were conspiracy theories about its sinking. The more humans change, the more they stay the same I guess, since fire doesn't melt steel. (grin)
Anyway, the theory goes that the sinking of the Titanic was insurance fraud, that it was really the Olympic, which had been damaged by a Royal Navy ship earlier in the year but the Olympic was at fault and White Star line couldn't afford to fix it, so they decided to sink it, changed it to "Titanic" the ship that wasn't finished yet, and then sank the Olympic, thereby getting money for it after all. They didn't expect people to die though.
Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at April 14, 2012 08:08 AM (RZ8pf)
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at April 14, 2012 08:09 AM (d6QMz)
Posted by: BurtTC at April 14, 2012 08:10 AM (Gc/Qi)
Posted by: rickl supports SMOD/Supervolcano 2012 at April 14, 2012 08:12 AM (sdi6R)
Okay. ....I now get why there is such a fascination with the Titanic. Thanks to all, for the perspective that you have forwarded.
While the Titanic should still serve as an example for creating safer cruise liners. .....There is little that US regulations can do about ships that are registered in other countries.....which, from what I've read, most of them are.
And the most important thing onboard a ship....is the good judgement of the Captain. .....Something that was sadly lacking in that recent Costa Concordia disaster.
Posted by: wheatie at April 14, 2012 08:14 AM (+5U+B)
Does anyone remember any noteworthy trainwrecks?
Me neither.
Posted by: Soothsayer at April 14, 2012 11:42 AM (jUytm)
-- -- --
The Obama administration?
Posted by: Marmo at April 14, 2012 08:15 AM (pcgW1)
Posted by: USS Diversity at April 14, 2012 08:15 AM (vpe0k)
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at April 14, 2012 08:18 AM (d6QMz)
85...Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at April 14, 2012 12:08 PM (RZ8pf)
It was the Dark Fae. ....They thought that the Blood King was onboard, so they sent that iceberg to sink the ship. ...*wink*
Posted by: wheatie at April 14, 2012 08:19 AM (+5U+B)
At the age of 66, he participated in the Evacuation of Dunkirk in 1940, using his own sailboat
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 08:21 AM (Y+DPZ)
:
In my opinion, while ANTR is at a technical disadvantage, it is still the better film. Baker is able to capture the history*, emotions, and heroism without schmaltz or histrionics. Conversely, Cameron apparently felt it necessary to tar some of the heroes for dramatic and other purposes. That does not mean ANTR is perfect when it comes to portrayals-- Captain Smith did not immediately take-charge and the focus on Lightoller somewhat crowd-outs the deeds of some of the other officers, as well as those of Mr. Andrews-- but that is preferable to Cameron's adding an almost villainous aspect to Lightoller and Murdoch. But my biggest problem with Titanic is the way that Cameron fixates on class differences through his 20th-Century socialist lense. Second-class men and crew members had the lowest survival rates, yet Cameron would have you believe that hardly anyone in steerage survived.
*As known at the timePosted by: Miss80sBaby at April 14, 2012 08:21 AM (d6QMz)
One semester in college I had some time between classes and used to check out the micro-films in the Library. They had the NY Times, and the coverage of the Titanic sinking is amazing. As has already been posted, some of the richest, best and brightest of NY Society were on board.
The coverage goes on day after day. Very interesting if you ever get a chance.
Posted by: HH at April 14, 2012 08:22 AM (KB0hv)
I don't know if it's true that some passengers were locked up to prevent them from over-running the lifeboats, but if it is, then damn them.
For those who survived, well, there was no such thing as PTSD back then. The just had to pick up and keep going. The hell they would have been through.
Cameron, although I wasn't crazy about the premise of his movie, admire the hell out of the fact that he was mad in his determination to recreate the Titanic to precise specifications. And, now despite him being a pompous ass, he is also one of the bravest and most adventurous men on earth, It is unfathomable that a man would descend to the darkest, coldest, deepest, loneliest place on earth as he has, regardless of the technology.
That sidebar map from last week that showed the depths of the oceans as compared to oil drilling and sunken ships really made the crazy clear.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 14, 2012 08:23 AM (piMMO)
My least favorite passenger story is about Rambler cousin Frederick Kimber Seward, an attorney in 1st class. He managed to survive by getting into lifeboat 7, the first lifeboat to depart. You know the old saying "women, children and attorneys first." When he got to land, he sued White Star.
White Star was indirectly owned by cousin J.P. Morgan and insured by another cousin whose name escapes me. Also in the cousin tree? James f'n Cameron.
Posted by: Nash Rambler at April 14, 2012 08:24 AM (HLv97)
Walter Lord (no relation) summed it up best; "Capt Lord's defenders can say whatever they want, but they can't get around those rockets. They saw those rockets and sat until morning"
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 08:24 AM (Y+DPZ)
There's some disagreement over whether he stole that perspective from the Nazi-propaganda film (see how horrible the British class system is, compared to us!) along with the love plot and other stuff, or just a happy coincidence that Cameron thinks like Goebbels. Heh.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at April 14, 2012 08:27 AM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: Retread at April 14, 2012 08:27 AM (joSBv)
Posted by: HH at April 14, 2012 08:28 AM (KB0hv)
>>There were not enough lifeboats on the Titanic
Sure about that? One thing I do know, they didn't bother learning how to use the lifeboats. They were actually built to hold something like 64 people each but no one knew, so some of them were launched with only about 12 people in them.
Had all the lifeboats been full, they still would have held only about half the passengers. The early ones were launched half-full partly because not many were willing to get in them--they still couldn't believe the ship was going to sink--and partly because the crew were worried the new lifeboats would buckle if filled to capacity (which they sometimes did). No one had bothered to hold a lifeboat drill beforehand, so they didn't know if the boats would hold or not; they all held up fine, as it turned out.
Posted by: T at April 14, 2012 08:31 AM (zun+U)
Posted by: Soothsayer at April 14, 2012 08:32 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: nip at April 14, 2012 08:34 AM (uRVaX)
Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy who is also a film buff at April 14, 2012 08:35 AM (MbeR6)
Most interesting thing? Well, there is sheet music in pristine condition which I found bizarre.
Also, guys in crows nest were not watching people make out. They did NOT have binoculars- they were lost in the rush to leave. It was a moonless night.... they were doomed from the beginning.
Posted by: shibimi, existentialist at April 14, 2012 08:36 AM (z63Tr)
Posted by: nickless at April 14, 2012 08:38 AM (MMC8r)
98....And, now despite him being a pompous ass, he is also one of the bravest and most adventurous men on earth, It is unfathomable that a man would descend to the darkest, coldest, deepest, loneliest place on earth as he has, regardless of the technology.
Cameron is a techno-junky. He fell in love with diving, and found a way to make money doing it, and fund it his habit. ....Which is all well and good.
But it is Cameron's embrace of the man-caused-global-warming bullshit, and demonizing corporate mining....that make him a world class hypocrite.
All of the wonderful technology that he loves, and uses to make his millions with....is manufactured by corporations which need all those bits of raw materials from mining.
Cameron has said, that he would like to see the world become less industrialized....in order to preserve the natural wonders of Mother Nature. And that he envisions people making their livings in communications and art. .....Well, where are all those communication devices going to come from, without industrialization?
Posted by: wheatie at April 14, 2012 08:39 AM (+5U+B)
Posted by: nickless at April 14, 2012 08:40 AM (MMC8r)
*****
In recent years they've concluded that it was a rogue wave which did her in.
Can you imagine that for millennia men had returned from sea (those fortunate enough to return) with stories of such waves and had been accused of lying to cover of up shitty seamanship.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 14, 2012 08:40 AM (piMMO)
Myth - There weren't enough lifeboats due to greed.
Fact - Due to traveling on the most heavily traveled shipping lane in the world, the lifeboats purpose was to ferry passengers to rescuing ships
Myth - The Titanic steamed at full speed in spite of iceberg warnings because White Star president Bruce Ismay wanted to break the transatlantic speed record
Fact - The top design speed of the Titanic was 22.5 knots, not even close to the record held by the Mauritania's 29.5 knots. Ismay's haste was most likely due to avoiding adverse headlines in the press about a delayed arrival. The purpose was to show that White Star's giants could deliver passengers in far greater comfort without a significant sacrifice in speed. The Mauritania was capable of much faster speeds, but rarely went over 23 knots due to extreme and uncomfortable vibration at speeds over that
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 08:41 AM (Y+DPZ)
Another Rambler cousin on the Titanic was Bess Waldo Daniels whose family was apparently portrayed in the movie. A brief account is here:
http://tinyurl.com/76v9cl4
Posted by: Nash Rambler at April 14, 2012 08:41 AM (HLv97)
I loved Cameron's idea at the end of the show of how you could have saved more people by rowing to the iceberg and putting people on it then rowing back to get more passengers, what a douche
Posted by: kj at April 14, 2012 08:42 AM (zdvxY)
Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at April 14, 2012 08:43 AM (RZ8pf)
15 People Who Didn't Know The Titanic Actually Sank
http://tinyurl.com/7hdurcg
Posted by: nickless at April 14, 2012 08:44 AM (MMC8r)
Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at April 14, 2012 08:44 AM (RZ8pf)
Posted by: Soothsayer Cameoron at April 14, 2012 08:45 AM (jUytm)
Its a fact that the 3rd class passengers on the ship enjoyed a level of luxury that that they would have been unaccustomed to in their evreryday life,that was the White Star Lines big drawing.card
Posted by: kj at April 14, 2012 08:47 AM (zdvxY)
****
Oh no. He's a prick. That is unquestionable. Yet it does not distract from the brass balls it took to do what he has done. Sure, there are braver, better men who could have gone down, but it was him, and that makes him the only human being on earth to have done so, and to have remained there for hours.
The claustrophobia alone would have overcome most.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 14, 2012 08:47 AM (piMMO)
*****
If only they had leashed the polar bears and penguins, they could have towed them in.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 14, 2012 08:49 AM (piMMO)
Didn't realize. Thanks for that sooth.
Posted by: The Mega Independent at April 14, 2012 08:50 AM (AlYnQ)
Other than the total reversal of the first mates personality and actions. He died on the ship trying to help people get to safety. Cameron was making an idiotic 99% statement and did horrendous injustice to the people on that ship.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 14, 2012 08:50 AM (r4wIV)
Posted by: wheatie at April 14, 2012 12:39 PM
Cameron doesn't hate modern living enough to sell off his personal fleet of Corvettes and Hummers parked in the driveway of his Malibu estate. The man is such an asshole that even other sanctimonious assholes in Hollywood can't stand the guy.
An old joke in Hollywood goes like this;
This Hollywood producer dies and is at the Pearly Gates when he sees this bearded guy screaming at film crews from a camera boom. The producer says to St Peter; 'isn't that Jim Cameron, when did he die?' and St Peter replies; "no, that's God, he just thinks he's James Cameron"
Look up "hypocrite" in the dictionary, you'll see Cameron's picture next to it
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 08:51 AM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: HH at April 14, 2012 12:28 PM (KB0hv)
----------------------
That is a myth created by William Randolph Hearst to sell papers. It didn't have all of its boilers on line at the time and was even sailing on a longer southern route in order to try to avoid ice. (ironic)
As for the signal rockets that were not interpreted correctly about the Californian, at the time every shipping line used a different signal system for trouble so it is easy to see why the signal rockets were not interpreted correctly. In addition, the wireless system was still in its infancy and not widely used.
There were 16 life boats aboard Titanic on its maiden voyage and two cutters with a capacity of 40. Each life boat had a capacity of 65. There were just over 2200 passengers so even if every one of them had been filled to capacity it would not have been enough.
Posted by: Vic at April 14, 2012 08:52 AM (YdQQY)
Speaking of disasters, I'd better check my weather radio.
Something tells me I'm going to need it on tonight...
Posted by: HH at April 14, 2012 08:53 AM (KB0hv)
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at April 14, 2012 08:53 AM (d6QMz)
Posted by: SarahW at April 14, 2012 08:54 AM (LYwCh)
Posted by: SarahW at April 14, 2012 08:55 AM (LYwCh)
Posted by: nip at April 14, 2012 08:56 AM (uRVaX)
Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy who is also a film buff at April 14, 2012 08:56 AM (MbeR6)
Its a fact that the 3rd class passengers on the ship enjoyed a level of luxury that that they would have been unaccustomed to in their evreryday life,that was the White Star Lines big drawing.card
Posted by: kj at April 14, 2012 12:47 PM
The Titanic was luxurious to draw the rich clientele
The Titanic was huge to carry more of the lucrative and competitive immigrant clientele. They had better accommodations to sell those passages to those immigrants
It didn't stop in Queenstown just to pick up the mail in Ireland
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 08:56 AM (Y+DPZ)
125....Look up "hypocrite" in the dictionary, you'll see Cameron's picture next to it.
Heh. Yup. .....He's doing Avatar2 underwater. ....So I suspect that he is using the money he is making off of exploiting the Titanic some more, to fund the underwater filming of Avatar2.
Which will require the use of the latest state-of-the-art technology.....the best that can be made available to him by evil industrialized corporations.
Posted by: wheatie at April 14, 2012 08:59 AM (+5U+B)
Something tells me I'm going to need it on tonight...
Posted by: HH at April 14, 2012 12:53 PM (KB0hv)
Yes....if you're located anywhere in the Bullseye Zone. Which is across Oklahoma, Kansas and Nebraska, this afternoon and tonight.
Posted by: wheatie at April 14, 2012 09:02 AM (+5U+B)
Posted by: rickl supports SMOD/Supervolcano 2012 at April 14, 2012 09:02 AM (sdi6R)
Posted by: Andy at April 14, 2012 09:04 AM (XG+Mn)
PGIS, there were at least 30 Rambler cousins on the Titanic, mostly in first class, but I know of one in second class and one employee.
One of my grandparents descended from boatloads of prominent early families. Other branches of the tree got the fame and fortune; I got the interenet connection.
Posted by: Nash Rambler at April 14, 2012 09:04 AM (HLv97)
Murdoch and Moody obviously knew as they were on the bridge when the ship struck. The other officers were either sleeping or on other parts of the ship, and were notified once summoned and Andrews determined that the ship could not be saved and estimated the rate it would founder.
It's true that the senior officers determined lifeboat boarding rules differently. Lightoller and Wilde on the port side determined "women and children ONLY" which is why JJ Astor was turned away by Lightoller. Murdoch interpreted it as "women and children FIRST", which allowed for men to board provided there was room after the women and children were loaded.
They did think that the ship spotted on the horizon would come to their aid, which happened to be the Californian (much heated debate over the years as to if the ship was indeed Capt Lord's ship they saw).
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 09:09 AM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: soothsayerwing plover, prOn edition at April 14, 2012 09:13 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at April 14, 2012 09:16 AM (d6QMz)
If he'd been looking out for icebergs instead of black kids walking around the deck, he'd have seen it. He also should have stayed in the crow's nest like Capt Smith instructed him after he called the bridge
Posted by: NBC News at April 14, 2012 09:18 AM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: Waterhouse at April 14, 2012 09:18 AM (k8AjP)
Shipwrecks and planewrecks fascinate me.
Posted by: soothsayer at April 14, 2012 11:24 AM (jUytm)
Then you're gonna love my second term.
Posted by: SCOAMF at April 14, 2012 09:25 AM (iXSO+)
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 09:27 AM (Y+DPZ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsXNjm6LsA4
What a poignant tune.
Posted by: Waterhouse at April 14, 2012 09:28 AM (k8AjP)
Posted by: fozzy at April 14, 2012 09:31 AM (FEzSe)
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 01:27 PM (Y+DPZ)
I can't figure out why Billy Zane was a star in the first place. He has the dullest personality of anyone on screen.
Posted by: fozzy at April 14, 2012 09:33 AM (FEzSe)
Posted by: Soothsayer at April 14, 2012 09:34 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 09:35 AM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: wheatie at April 14, 2012 09:40 AM (+5U+B)
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 09:40 AM (Y+DPZ)
I can do both!
Posted by: Waterhouse at April 14, 2012 09:41 AM (k8AjP)
Our audio experts analyzed Cameron's film and just before Murdoch kills Ryan, you can hear him muttering "fuckin' Micks!"
Posted by: NBC News at April 14, 2012 09:44 AM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at April 14, 2012 09:44 AM (d6QMz)
Posted by: Andy at April 14, 2012 09:50 AM (3gfGS)
Posted by: real joe at April 14, 2012 09:51 AM (w7Lv+)
Posted by: real joe at April 14, 2012 01:51 PM (w7Lv+)
But all the lies he told in the movie make it a piece of shit.
Posted by: fozzy at April 14, 2012 09:53 AM (FEzSe)
Posted by: Soothsayer at April 14, 2012 09:54 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: Soothsayer at April 14, 2012 09:58 AM (jUytm)
First, the ship had no PA system so everything was word of mouth. The stewards were not trained on how to handle these emergencies and pretty much had to decide on their own. Contrary to the feckless clowns they were depicted as in Cameron's film, the majority of them did not survive, stayed with the ship and did their job as best they could, and did not rush to the lifeboats as those on the Andrea Doria or Concordia did.
There was also an issue of language. 3rd class had many passengers who knew little or no English and could not understand the instructions of the crew. There were also no exit routes indicated in steerage, and since they boarded through ramps and doors through the hull, there was confusion about how to reach the boat deck. More than a few of the stewards rather than imprison the passengers aided them to the boat deck or to the poop deck
The plight of the 3rd class passengers was due mostly to confusion and some incompetence, not to intent or bigotry
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 10:01 AM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: Soothsayer at April 14, 2012 10:02 AM (jUytm)
(Lines on the loss of the "Titanic")
-Thomas Hardy
I In a solitude of the sea Deep from human vanity, And the Pride of Life that planned her, stilly couches she.II Steel chambers, late the pyres Of her salamandrine fires, Cold currents thrid, and turn to rhythmic tidal lyres.
III Over the mirrors meant To glass the opulent The sea-worm crawls — grotesque, slimed, dumb, indifferent.
IV Jewels in joy designed To ravish the sensuous mind Lie lightless, all their sparkles bleared and black and blind.
V Dim moon-eyed fishes near Gaze at the gilded gear And query: "What does this vaingloriousness down here?" ...
VI Well: while was fashioning This creature of cleaving wing, The Immanent Will that stirs and urges everything
VII Prepared a sinister mate For her — so gaily great — A Shape of Ice, for the time far and dissociate.
VIII And as the smart ship grew In stature, grace, and hue, In shadowy silent distance grew the Iceberg too.
IX Alien they seemed to be; No mortal eye could see The intimate welding of their later history,
X Or sign that they were bent By paths coincident On being anon twin halves of one august event,
XI Till the Spinner of the Years Said "Now!" And each one hears, And consummation comes, and jars two hemispheres.
Posted by: Barney's Frank in Freddie's Fannie at April 14, 2012 10:07 AM (XBEWJ)
Posted by: Andy at April 14, 2012 10:08 AM (VJ9oj)
hated the movie,especially hated the end when the old bitch drops the dimond back into the sea,no way she could have given it to her grandaughter whos been taking care of her or donated it to be sold and finally make repreations to the famlies of the people lost who never got a dime.
Posted by: kj at April 14, 2012 10:08 AM (zdvxY)
Ismay DID order Smith to maintain speed the day before the sinking, there were witnesses who overheard the conversation and testified to it at the American hearings
His behavior during the rescue was not callous, as he assisted even the steerage passengers onto the lifeboats. He waited until the last one was launched (collapsible C) before jumping in. His death would have not saved one life and would have deprived the committees in both hearings of valuable information
His behavior on the Carpathia on the way to New York however was craven, he locked himself in a private cabin and refused to speak with anyone, claiming shock. He also wired the WS Line's NY offices to have the Celtic ready to take him and the Titanic's crew back to England immediately, knowing subpoenas were awaiting him in NY.
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 10:15 AM (Y+DPZ)
Yeh, that old white bitch should have sold the diamond to pay reparations to all the slaves who built that ship!
Posted by: The Right Rev Jesse Jackson at April 14, 2012 10:17 AM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: Chris R, red in NY-9 at April 14, 2012 10:20 AM (NFcOS)
Posted by: JEM at April 14, 2012 10:20 AM (o+SC1)
I'll be 40 in June.
UNSINKABLE EGGS!
Posted by: Cathy at April 14, 2012 10:23 AM (XD+u1)
Posted by: JEM at April 14, 2012 02:20 PM
Unfortunately, you're very right
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 10:24 AM (Y+DPZ)
Sounds like good sense to me, rather than picking out horns to make himself look like the best sort of scapegoat
Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at April 14, 2012 10:24 AM (QTHTd)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at April 14, 2012 10:24 AM (KEtcL)
When Eastern Airlines flight 401 crashed in the Everglades, CEO Frank Borman himself went to the scene and assisted with aid and rescue
The public can be very forgiving of a company involved in a large tragedy if the aftermath is handled correctly, or even perceived as doing so
Posted by: kbdabear at April 14, 2012 10:34 AM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: Chris R, red in NY-9 at April 14, 2012 10:38 AM (NFcOS)
Posted by: kjl291 at April 14, 2012 11:02 AM (cYMja)
Posted by: shibimi, existentialist at April 14, 2012 11:04 AM (z63Tr)
It wasn't that Cameron drew the wrong message from the sinking that got me. It was something else. For being shown to be such a wonk as to get the correct angle RMS Titanic was at before it snapped by using computer models, the faith he has in imprecise climate models is disturbing. Only a fetish could explain such a dichotomy of thought, that he is a true believer.
Because of his movie Avatar and his personal mania, he will never get another dime from me. Even if he manages to finally produce Battle Angel Alita, a property he had the rights on for more than a decade. Never again.
And when I walked out of a cinema earlier this year after watching John Carter I saw the giant cardboard mock-up promoting Cameron's Titanic. And I muttered, "It still sinks."
As you are reading A Night to Remember by Walter Lord, another momentous event he wrote on is coming up. The book is called Incredible Victory and it's about the Battle of Midway. This is the 70th Anniversary of that turning point in the Pacific War. So few WWII vets are left, when the Doolittle Raiders meet next week in Dayton OH, only five of them are left. Talk to them before they are finally gone.
Posted by: Anna Puma at April 14, 2012 12:05 PM (sHN/G)
The only thing that kept Cameron's Titanic from sinking was Kate's hooters.
Posted by: Libra at April 14, 2012 12:41 PM (kd8U8)
Posted by: steevy at April 14, 2012 04:25 PM (6HIQG)
Posted by: rickl supports SMOD/Supervolcano 2012 at April 14, 2012 05:46 PM (sdi6R)
Posted by: Sherriff Joe Biden at April 14, 2012 06:23 PM (PevdC)
Posted by: grasshopper at April 14, 2012 06:37 PM (QCDQ6)
Posted by: rickl supports SMOD/Supervolcano 2012 at April 14, 2012 07:07 PM (sdi6R)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 14, 2012 12:23 PM (piMMO)
.
Actually, the barred doors from third class to the upper decks were there to comply with US immigration laws, so now you know whom to damn.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 15, 2012 06:34 PM (9lQzN)
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Posted by: Y-not at April 14, 2012 07:20 AM (5H6zj)