1 Good Morning Morons.  Today is Friday, November 23, 2012.  On this day in 1889 the first juke box was installed in a saloon in San Francisco whereupon the customers after placing a nickel in it immediately got into a fight over whether they want to hear “Little Annie Rooney” or “Take A Pair of Sparkling Eyes”.  After a while they shook hands had a beer, went out, and urinated in the street.

2 And it looks like Obama's forced truce is about to go into the shitter.

http://is.gd/Ly9MDV

3 Retailers are starting Black Friday earlier and earlier now.  Not even allowing employees to enjoy Thanksgiving.  Even my daughter who works in a bank had to go in last night, which I thought was ludicrous.  I think it is a sign of how really bad the economy is regardless of what the lying shit for brains in Washington say.

http://is.gd/xJEKsT

4 Fox News opines on the shrinking middle class.  And to be “fair and balanced” they say both Parties ignore the middle class hinting that Republicans are the party of the rich.  So the next time someone says Fox tilts to the right mention this, they push Dem talking points as well.

http://is.gd/I1cJBw

5 ObamaÂ’s picked Muzzie for Egypt assumes dictatorial powers in an effort to copy Obama.

http://is.gd/DRTZAy

6 The Black Friday scuffles begin.  The LAPD says they will crack down on the “unruly”.  Hahahahahahaha.   You could not drag me out there for shit.

http://is.gd/Dnb7f5

http://is.gd/8DoUk1

http://is.gd/htelYv

7 ObamaÂ’s pardoned turkey is executed.  What a waste.

http://is.gd/EJ4KTB

8 Even TX has its hard core left commie professors.

Forget all that turkey, stuffing and pumpkin pie, today should be a day of fasting and atonement for American “sin.” That’s according to Robert Jensen, a journalism professor at the University of Texas at Austin. Jensen, known for his hard-left politics, also calls Thanksgiving a “white-supremacist holiday.”

http://is.gd/KWEXGV

9 Christian conservative natural Republican gets life in prison in TX for 8th DUI.  But he was a real AOS Moron with a BAC of .446.  I want to know how he was still breathing.  He had had previous felony DUI convictions, which I have to assume DUI with accidents that injured people.  And yes I denounce myself for this snark.

http://is.gd/MWgRAg

10 Turkeys are the only ones getting some payback.  Deer are attacking now and then stealing cigarettes.   The buck explained to a reporter interviewing from a tree “hey gots to have a smoke and the damn taxes are too high”.  (I might have made that last up)

http://is.gd/sgwuPy

11 Those of you who took the day off yesterday from AOS may have missed this “good” news.  The scrunt who flipped off the tomb of the unknown was fired.

http://is.gd/PcD0kP

12 Well here it is.  The Fonze says we should ignore accused pederast ElmoÂ’s sex abuse allegations.

http://is.gd/1pkIUH

13 WaPo Link/title Why has economic recovery in the U.S. sputtered?

WaPo asks in link title “why is the economic recovery low”?  The irony it burns. In the article they discuss all kinds of interactions between Obama and a panel of economists”, who I a sure were a bunch of Krugmans, because they ALL ignore the dozen or so 500T elephants sitting on the couch.

http://is.gd/Z6cJgV

14 WaTimes looks at one Party rule in a number of states and decries “polarization”.  But they also decry “gridlock”.  I think these people have lost touch with the people and have no sense of reality.

http://is.gd/pvmTGk

15 Byron York looks at a study that says Hispanics did not give Obama the election. So now we have several things but they are all based on exit polls.  Exit polls donÂ’t tell the full story.

http://is.gd/o6lpX7

16 Former Iowa Gov says they should do away with the straw poll.  I say we should put Iowa at the back of the pack and their polls would be what they should be, a fart in the wind.

http://is.gd/N9rc45

17 VA holding public hearings for making their part of I-95 a toll road.  Soon all of I-95 will be a toll road.  And you know what?  It will continue to be overcrowded, unmaintained, and a piece of shit.  And why is that.  This will be just another tax to be squandered on socialist projects, crony corruption, and general projects that have not a damn thing to do with the roads.

http://is.gd/1SZyxQ

18 is today Kennedy assassination day..?

19 Kindle Daily Deal

They bring back 25 past daily deals all for $1.99 each so if you missed one hereÂ’s your chance to catch up.  (One of these is Wool if you had wanted to get it but missed out.  I did get it and as it turns out I didnÂ’t really like it.)

http://is.gd/QGRheH

20 And thatÂ’s it for incompetent Friday.  I hope all the Morons and ‘Ettes had a wonderful Thanksgiving and gorged on goodies.  I know I did and I had a happy surprise, Libtard SIL did not show up.  Supposed to get up to 68° today so may have to hit the porch rocker.  But its 27.7° right now so need some warming up.

21 ObamaÂ’s picked Muzzie for Egypt assumes dictatorial powers But how could anyone have seen that coming? /s

22 The scrunt who flipped off the tomb of the unknown was fired.
http://is.gd/PcD0kP
Posted by: Vic at November 23, 2012 07:26 AM

Say hello to the next Sandra Flake!

Speaking tours, gubmint freebies and lots o' political hay are on the way!

Choom Boy takes care of his own....

23 My condolences to anyone stuck doing Black Friday shopping. Unless you like that kinda thing, in which case, really? Really?


I don't think you will have t worry about anyone here doing that Gabe.

24 is today Kennedy assassination day..?

Posted by: mallfly at November 23, 2012 07:28 AM (jDjlM)

That was yesterday.

25 Looks like everyone is hungover and sleeping in. I'll probably be that way tomorrow,

26 driving my bro to a va hospital in a bit. long trip.

27 http://is.gd/DRTZAy

Posted by: Vic at November 23, 2012 07:24 AM (YdQQY)

Morsi took note of Obamao/s use of Executive Orders and carried that to its logical conclusion. 

Just hope that Obamao doesn't decide that that there Morsi feller had a really good idea for how to get things done (for the children of course).

28 So, I woke up at 0500 this morning, to the sound of the shower running.
Rolled out, ran into Mrs VIA in the rainlocker, and said "Huh?"

Her response was something like "It's 0600, and I want to get to Barnes and Noble when they open at 0800"

My response was "I see you never changed your clock from Daylight savings time, but at least you will be early"

At least she made coffee before she left.

29 Somebody asked on the last thread about insurance for retirees, so I'm carrying over my response from the dead thread. I recently became disabled. I'm still an employee of the company, but I am classified as "retired" for now. As an active employee my insurance was $44 per month (the least expensive option). It carries a $1600 deductible before insurance pays a dime and a $4k deductible before it pays 100%. Now, as a retiree, that same plan costs $257 per month. Sooooo, divide $1600 by 12 and add it to the monthly premium and I'm now spending $387 per month before the insurance company spends a dime. And, actually, it's more than that because the coverage is only 80% until $4k. So, basically, you can pay for the insurance but can't afford to go to the doctor. And...... This sharp increase occurs concurrent with my pay dropping by 40%. I am blessed to be single with no kids and to have made a decent salary because, otherwise, I'd be screwed.

30 Good analogy on Insty: Obama et al. are hailing Morsi as a legit partner because he sicced his dog on his neighbor but then later called him off. And now the dude's gone all Chavez. Obama's incompetence is epic.

31 DAY 17 1,443 Mayans, Muzzies, Marxists, malcontents, miscreants and miscellaneous meshugas notwithstanding.

32 Not hungover, not sleeping in and NOT shopping on black Friday. If this year is anything like the last 20 I will be doing all my shopping on or around Dec 23. The tree will probably go up a few days before that and be down a day or two after December 25th. I appreciate the holiday for what it is meant to be but as far as the rest of it...Bah Humbug.

33 Morning.. I think I'll go back to bed.

34 Good analogy on Insty: Obama et al. are hailing Morsi as a legit partner because he sicced his dog on his neighbor but then later called him off. And now the dude's gone all Chavez. Obama's incompetence is epic. **** I am sooooo glad we helped get rid of Mubarak/

35 Thanks for the news roundup, Vic. Glad you had a good Thanksgiving, so did we. A couple of lefties tried to run their racist holiday crap past me on Wednesday so I explained to them what the day has always meant. They didn't like but they shut up.

36

Drudge linked to this from IBD:

On his trip to Cambodia, a country he claimed didn't deserve a visit due to its strongman government, first lady Bun Rany greeted Obama with a traditional "sampeah" pressed-hands greeting reserved for servants, a little dig that was probably lost on him but not to Asians.

37 Have to take the wifey out to get a tree today, and then get the decorations out of storage. This on the heels of recovering from forced family interaction day Thanksgiving. Oy ...

38

I don't even want to talk about Black Friday. When it starts on Thurs...yeah, totally ruined my Thanksgiving. Only got home an hour ago.

 

Vic, you're lucky. It was really nice here yesterday, 70ish, but now a cold front has come through and the wind is blowing pretty hard out of the north. Feels like it's in the 20's.

39 Speaking of Amazon, make sure you leave your kindle on airplane mode if you have ankle-biters in the house.  My 14 month old daughter successfully ordered a notebook for $545 today...  cancelled it in time whew!

40 Just saw on FNC that Mike Rowe's show has been cancelled.

41 Good morning!  My sole excursion today will be to Kroger to buy a package of dishwasher detergent,  because I ran out last night and I have another load of dishes ready to go.

I do not do Black Friday.  When I was younger and before the crowds got insane, my husband and I used to go out and pick up a couple of things because it was fun and he loves Christmas.  Now it is a complete zoo and I am totally uninterested.  The grandkids are too old for toys so it isn't necessary to get some popular toy or game.

Much nicer to spend today getting out the decorations and staying away from the stores.

42 #40  What a shame.  Payback,  I am sure.  I hate these people.

We should compile a list of people who could appear on a new network.  Maybe call it Radio Free America or something.

43 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 23, 2012 07:42 AM (piMMO)


It sounds like what they have given you is "catastrophic coverage" of a sort which is what I had to go to last year.  Except mine goes for me paying 100% of the first $5000 and then the insurance pays for 100% after that (of covered expenses).


I haven't looked at what they are doing yet this year.  Since Obamacare passed the costs have been rocketing and the coverage going down. I understand there is another huge increase this year.

44

journalism professor

[/br]

Wait, they still have those??

45 Whenever I hear "Black Friday" I only think of the Steely Dan tune. Anyway, we are having the the Thanksgiving meal today, as our guests arrived yesterday. We had some great Spanish food at one of my favorite restaurants in Greenwich Village; Sevilla. Highly recommend if you are ever in town. As the salutation from the Nigerian 401 scammers goes: "Remain blessed."

46

39Speaking of Amazon, make sure you leave your kindle on airplane mode if you have ankle-biters in the house. My 14 month old daughter successfully ordered a notebook for $545 today... cancelled it in time whew!...................

 

 

 

My 3 yr old grandaughter did that on mine once. Not the $ amount you were nearly on the hook for though. I had the parental controls set and she had seen me type it and somehow remembered it,she ordered 6 movies for around 80 bucks. I emailed amazon and they did remove them for me.

47 Thanks for the news Vic, and thanks Gabe for the thread.
 
I have a small dilemma -- I have been wearing a gold chain on my neck for 20+ years. If you went out and bought it today, it would set you back two grand wholesale. Drudge had a link up recently about dozens of assaults on jewelry wearing people in Oakland; the police chief recommended people not wear jewelry any more. One person was killed.
 
The nature of what I do leaves me unable to go heeled for the most part as I'm in and out of firearm prohibited areas.
 
I think that police chief is right in my case, as sad as that may sound. But I sure hate to give in to the looters.
 
Thoughts?
 

48 BTW, you should start a health savings account. And use that to pay all those initial costs.

49 47 Thoughts? Posted by: GnuBreed at November 23, 2012 07:51 AM (ccXZP) Carry a .45 in your belt. Might not be practical in topsy turvy world since it's your fault for flaunting your ill-gotten wealth to the poor unfortunate victims of society out there.

50 We going to go out and use some coupons to stock up on Keurig Cups but that is all. Black Friday we usually spend avoiding the kamikaze shoppers.

51 Posted by: GnuBreed at November 23, 2012 07:51 AM (ccXZP)



That shit is going on in more places than Oakland.  I recommend do NOT wear gold chain anywhere.

52 It's not worth your life. Put it away for now. I stopped wearing my Mom's diamond ring a while back and now I frequently leave the Rolex at home. Perhaps that is a sign that I need to frequent better stores.

53 As for incompetent Friday, I am going through the Amazon deals now.  My old Sony reciever in my office upstairs bit the bucket a month ago and I was going to get a new reciever. 


I just fond a Denon 110W/ch 5.1 for $200.  Any of you Morons have any experience with Denon?

54 #51  The last year we went out,  there were shoppers with reindeer antlers and walkie-talkies.  They had all come together,  and they had garbage bags to put their stuff in until they got to the check-out.  (This was at Kohl's which notoriously runs out of shopping carts.)

I realized then that I was just not into that type of shopping.

55 HSA's only save you the tax you would otherwise pay on that income, Vic.  It's still your money.

And there's a limit a single person can put away... $4000 per year if you are over 55.   So.. If you are in the 15% effective tax rate, you save $600.. that's nice, yeah.. but a drop in the bucket with today's health insurance costs, especially if you are receiving medical care on an ongoing basis.

56 Go Redskins.

57 My father would turn his Rolex or whatever around to the inside as well as his expensive ring when he was going some places. I thought that was ridiculous and just leave anything like that at home. Not worth the aggravation and I really can't think of a good reason to wear that stuff out in uncertain times.

58 At least I don't have one of those fancy cell phones -- now the number one most stolen item in public.

59

"Mayans, Muzzies, Marxists, malcontents, miscreants and miscellaneous meshugas notwithstanding."

 

...what's a meshuga?

60 43 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 23, 2012 07:42 AM (piMMO) It sounds like what they have given you is "catastrophic coverage" of a sort which is what I had to go to last year. Except mine goes for me paying 100% of the first $5000 and then the insurance pays for 100% after that (of covered expenses). I haven't looked at what they are doing yet this year. Since Obamacare passed the costs have been rocketing and the coverage going down. I understand there is another huge increase this year. ***** It is, which with my bills this year including three hospital stays and a $100k surgery was the best bet, but I had no idea that option would cost so much if I became disabled. Something more interesting is that I believe if someone were to look closely they find the company clearing out the chronically ill. Several folks have lost their jobs outright so the timing of my disability was, in a way, a blessing.

61 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 23, 2012 07:58 AM (UTq/I)

What HSA do is make your expenses tax deductible again despite the Obama $10K floor.  And the limit is now 6K.


And it is deductible even if you take the standard deduction. Since you are going to have to pay it anyway it is a major benefit.

62 No black Friday shopping for me in China. They don't do Christmas or Thanksgiving over here very well. No Turkeys here , but I did enjoy my Thanksgiving R&R.(Rice and Rat meat). They decorate all up on Christmas, and some of the more well to do, exchange gifts and its a shopping excuse...No Christ in Christmas over here in commie land!..Ming bai ma? (Chinese for is it clear?). I hope I can exit this crap back to to the US while I am still healthy enough to ride my horses and shoot my guns. The air sucks, the food sucks. You cant eat the apples..some problem, the broccolli full of heavy metals, the milk..all melamine. Son of a Bitch! I am about to go all Soylent green over here and just start eating people. But I thank God for preserving me, health holding, and I am making money for the family. God has truly blessed us, please excuse the previous bitching!

63 Vic - Many thanks for the daily news briefs - your commentary makes it that much better. And to all the rest of the M&Ms - thanks for being here. Hope you all have a great weekend. You've earned it.

64 >> I just fond a Denon 110W/ch 5.1 for $200. Any of you Morons have any experience with Denon?
 
Vic, I have a Denon AVR-1508 receiver, very good quality but it did go in for warranty repair after a lightning hit. It's about 5 years old.
 
For a while, I was doing programming on remotes for high end home systems; I saw several running Denon gear.

65 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse
.........
Have you looked into the high risk pools of your state and/or Obamacare?  I'm not sure they are really any cheaper, but you get guaranteed coverage.  How long will your employer allow you to stay in their health plan?  COBRA limits?

66 Many thanks for the daily news briefs - your commentary makes it that much better.



You're welcome, but someone complained of the snark a few day ago!

67 Expenses paid thru an HSA are not tax deductible.  That would be double dipping.

68 Posted by: GnuBreed at November 23, 2012 08:05 AM (ccXZP)


That makes it all the better.  Thanks.  Warranty covered a lightning strike?  That is amazing.


I'll probably order this today but unfortunately will not be able to use it until Christmas because this is what I told wifey I wanted for Christmas. waaaaa.

69 Have you looked into the high risk pools of your state and/or Obamacare? I'm not sure they are really any cheaper, but you get guaranteed coverage. How long will your employer allow you to stay in their health plan? COBRA limits? ***** If I remain disabled I will have insurance until Apr 2014 at which time I would qualify for Medicare or can purchase insurance under COBRA. From what I understand, coverage under COBRA costs quite a bit more.

70 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 23, 2012 08:08 AM (UTq/I)


Perhaps you should go and do some research. You are totally incorrect.

71 66 Many thanks for the daily news briefs - your commentary makes it that much better. You're welcome, but someone complained of the snark a few day ago! **** Then perhaps they might want to check out another place to spend their time.

72 Snark is the seasoning. Ignore the critics.

73 Oh, and regardless of the cost, i will pay for COBRA and hold off on Medicare for as long as possible.

74 Well, as I understand it, COBRA in its simplest form simply states you can buy into your company's plan for a given period of time.  But you have to pay for the whole premium.

There may be other components of COBRA, though.  But by 2014 Obamacare kicks in and all plans will be must-carry.  They won't be able to deny anyone for pre-existing conditions, or even charge them more!

75 I spent 5 dollars for an extra WoW account (WoW battlechest at Best Buy) so that I can invite all of my alts into my personal guild. Oh, and I got the expansion for half off - just twenty bucks. That's it for big ticket items for me this year. Everyone else is going to have to be content with a card and a candy bar.

76 >> That makes it all the better. Thanks. Warranty covered a lightning strike? That is amazing.
 
Er, I sent it back as "Hey, it quit working" and they fixed it. It's just that I'm pretty sure that's what fried it.
 
It could have been aliens that fried it too -- how can I be certain.

77 My wife just went on Medicare last year..It's ok with the supplemental, but I'm paying a lot more out of pocket for drugs even with Part D.  She's diabetic and the cost of insulin is crazy.  I should have kept her on my plan from work.

78 Er, I sent it back as "Hey, it quit working" and they fixed it. It's just that I'm pretty sure that's what fried it.

It could have been aliens that fried it too -- how can I be certain.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 23, 2012 08:15 AM (ccXZP)

LOL, I used to work in a TV shop long long ago.  Its pretty easy to tell lightning damage. Even when it is not catastrophic.

79 Good morning all! Pumpkin Cheesecake bars and coffee for breakfast. Thanks for the news Vic.

80 74 Well, as I understand it, COBRA in its simplest form simply states you can buy into your company's plan for a given period of time. But you have to pay for the whole premium. There may be other components of COBRA, though. But by 2014 Obamacare kicks in and all plans will be must-carry. They won't be able to deny anyone for pre-existing conditions, or even charge them more! **** My employer is self-insured so I'm betting they wish their hounding me had run me off rather than putting me in the hospital.

81 You're welcome.

82

Good morning, ‘rons and ‘ronettes.  And thanks for the news, Vic.  Hope you all had a wonderful Thanksgiving.

 

 

To my own surprise, I didnÂ’t get loaded yesterday.  With drink, that is – I got pretty loaded with food, then spent the afternoon watching (since IÂ’m not a football fan except for the pointy elbows) Les Vampires, a French mystery serial from 1916 that is about the efforts of a crusading newspaper reporter to break up a criminal gang called “The Vampires.”  ThereÂ’s no explanation why they took that name, though; there are no supernatural bloodsuckers in the thing.  Still, as Honest Abe once said, “For the people who like that sort of thing, I should think it is just the sort of thing they would like.”

 

 

 

Just to show you that nothing ever changes, today IÂ’m going to give you a little bit of a series called “Breaking Into The Movies In California” from the April 1916 issue of Motion Picture Magazine.  The writer is a girl named Suzette Booth, one of the thousands of pretty, young, foolish girls who flocked to Hollywood to become the next Mary Pickford.  Also, the series is meant as a warning to movie-struck ingénues, trying to keep them away from casting couches and prostitution and safe at home.

 

 

 

Here we go.  Suzette has managed to find a place as an ‘extra girlÂ’ at the Balboa Film Company in Long Beach:

 

 

 

MARCH 25, 1916 – I am discouraged.  Mr. King, a director, called us this morning and said: “Girls, make up in evening clothes at once, eat your lunch and be ready for me at 12.30.”  We were delighted.  Hastily dressed, lunched, then waited our call.  Suddenly our dressing room door was thrust open and Miss Maude Barry (a Pike dancer) rushed in.  She held up two dainty little costumes made out of a few inches of cheese-cloth, with a garland of roses sufficing for the waist.  She said commandingly: “Girls, you will have to put these on and dance a barefoot dance with me.”  “I guess not,” I said decisively.  “I was not hired for a ‘Salome dancer!”

 

 

My friend, so anxious was she to keep her position, would have consented to do ‘most any stunt, but I was obdurate, so the dancer went back to report the occurrence to the manager.  Finally, we heard some one tearing up the stairs, and the manager burst into the dressing room.  Ranting in a very elocutionary way, he said: “Miss Booth, either put on that costume or go to the office and get your money.”

 

 

Big tears ran down my cheeks, making deep rivulets in my make-up, as I ran over to the studio to see Mr. H.M. Horkheimer.  “Would you do it for more money?” he asked.  I was indignant, so he continued, “When a girl becomes a Motion Picture actress she should be willing to do anything that is asked of her.”  I said: “Thanks, Mr. Horkheimer, for the information.  I guess I am too much of a mule to work for you; IÂ’ll admit I certainly balk at doing everything that is asked of me.”

 

 

Going over to the office for my check, they refused to pay me in full.  So, leaving the studio, I walked back to my hotel, a distance of two miles.  When I reached the ocean I strolled away out on the pier and sat down on a fishing-stump.  And then I thought how people censure girls for straying from the narrow path.  What would I do, I thought, if tonight I had no money to get back to town?  Mr. Horkheimer knew I was a stranger in California, but never even inquired about my financial condition.  California people donÂ’t seem to be kind-hearted.

 

 

As I was sitting pondering, big tears rolling down my cheeks, my face resembled an unsweetened rhubarb pie.  I happened to glance up, and there stood a big policeman.  I had to laugh as I said to him, “I suppose you think I am going to give the fishes a chicken dinner?”

 

 

So this ended my career at Balboa, and I moved back to Los Angeles.

 

 

I hope you enjoyed that.  Since I have the day off, IÂ’m going to see if I can knock off a few thousand or so words of my book.  IÂ’ll see you all on Monday.  Have a great day and a wonderful weekend.

 

83 I did the COBRA thing back in 2005-06 -- family coverage ran $1500+/month.
 
I shudder to think what it runs now.

84 #77  I go on Medicare next fall,  which will be a big improvement as I have zero insurance.  I take 3 BP meds so no insurance company would sell me a policy even though I took the same 3 meds 5 years ago and Anthem happily covered me then.

I pay $255 per month for meds.  So if I go on Medicare and get the Plan D,  I think I will be paying about the same amount,  only the government will get to administer the money.

85 Niedermeyer's Dead Horse;


this describes the HSA and it looks like your plan will qualify.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_savings_account

86

Happy Friday/ Saturday from Down Under!

 

Someone asked in the previous thread about other countries having mad sales like your Black Friday sales

 

 

We have these feeding frenzies on Boxing Day when hundreds of  people go crazy and line up for hours before opening times to race in for the 2 microwaves or 1 fridge at half price that the store deems available for that day..... 

 

 

Personally I couldn't think of a worse way to spend one of those precious public holidays breaking up a long work year!

 

And I hope you all enjoyed your Thanksgiving Day  

 

 

 

87 83 I did the COBRA thing back in 2005-06 -- family coverage ran $1500+/month. I shudder to think what it runs now. *** Yep. I'm hearing my cobra coverage could run $400-$500 per month.

88 Posted by: Miss Marple at November 23, 2012 08:20 AM (GoIUi)


My BP medicine is available in the Wal-Mart $4 list.  You may wish to check that.  I had my doctor revise a lot of my stuff so I could get as much as I could in the "cheap stack".

89 Morning all. Morsi in Egypt just grabbed dictatorial powers a day after Susan Rice praised him. Hey this dumb bastard scrunt rice is on a roll ha? Everything she touches turns to dog shit. And as egypt transcends into a muslim hell, a big shout out to obama and his arab spring, way to go big boy.

90 85 Niedermeyer's Dead Horse; this describes the HSA and it looks like your plan will qualify. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_savings_account ***** I've been a big fan of HSAs and FSAs for years but no longer have access through my employer and just haven't had a chance to learn about setting up a new account. Thank you for the info. I really need to get on it soon.

91 Posted by: aussie at November 23, 2012 08:21 AM (/chYc)



LOL, nice to know someone still carries out the Boxing Day tradition.  I suspect few in Great Britain still do.  But seeing as how GB has become 100% socialist I guess every day is Boxing Day there.

92 Good Morning, I appreciate the news roundup, and I don't even go to the links, I rely on the snark to give me the gist of the link. Speaking of, is it correct then that Israel is being forced to defend itself again? No shopping for me today! I try to plan my shopping for the least busiest time of day, avoiding like the plague the busiest day of the year. I may take the kids to see "Wreck it Ralph". 2 of the 3 have seen it and like it. I have to drag myself into theaters, but will do it "for the children" heh

93 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 23, 2012 08:21 AM (piMMO)
 
You can do COBRA for 18 months max.
 
Of course with OBlaBlaCare, who knows what the rules are now.

94 With Obama care, penalties and all I was thinking about this...The fine , from what they they say is not mandatory (if you believe that I have a bridge to sell ya), but knowing they just threw on 16,000, I repeat 16,000 IRS agents that are gonna be on this like flies on doo doo, I took pause to reflect on this. Bring back the barter system!...show up with the family rifle at the doctors office and some chickens and pigs! Barter for it. Then glance at the rifle. Them 16,000 agents can't be everywhere at once. After all, how can you be in multiple places at once when you are not anywhere at all? Bartering..although technically taxable..it's the new untaxable, unseen by Barky...money! Got pigs and chickens?

95 #88  Thanks Vic.  I checked them a couple of years ago and my most expensive one wasn't on it.  I have two that are generics,  although one is still sort of expensive because it is rarely used.

I am one of those people who got the chronic cough with certain types,  so we worked a long time to see what was going to work.  I will check them again just in case.

96 I am being dragged to a Christmas tree extravaganza with my MIL and my SIL and my obnoxious nieces. Pray for me!!!!

97 Forget all that turkey, stuffing and pumpkin pie, today should be a day of fasting and atonement for American “sin.” That’s according to Robert Jensen, a journalism professor at the University of Texas at Austin. Jensen, known for his hard-left politics, also calls Thanksgiving a “white-supremacist holiday.”

--------

Unbeknownst to me, this thought process has been going on since I was a kid.  Couple of days ago, I was watching an old episode of "Alice."  In it, an old Indian (which Alice admonishes anyone who doesn't call him Native American) comes into the diner and won't leave the booth.  Mel tries to get him out.  Alice repeats about 3 times in the 23 minute show how the white man stole his land.  Toward the end, she literally screams to Mel, who says he didn't take anything from the old Indian, "We're all guilty!  We are ALL guilty!" 

That's a lib in a nutshell.  They truly do have guilt pouring out of their bodies.  What a way to go through life. 

98 62 No black Friday shopping for me in China. They don't do Christmas or Thanksgiving over here very well. No Turkeys here , but I did enjoy my Thanksgiving R&R.(Rice and Rat meat).

Yep I'm in China also, have a lot of the same gripes but most of the time I'm still in awe of what a great time I'm having living in this weird alternate universe.  I also have a great health insurance plan that covers me world-wide except for one country.  Anyone care to guess which one?

99 Maybe we're talking about two different things here, but here's the IRS's take on this:

You cannot deduct qualified medical expenses as an itemized deduction on Schedule A (Form 1040) that are equal to the tax-free distribution from your HSA.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p969/ar02.html

100 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 23, 2012 08:24 AM (piMMO)

There are a number of companies that will walk you through setting one up.  Mine is through Mellon Bank and they have a lot of info on their home page.

https://hsamember.com/home.html

101

91 Vic

Hi and thanks for your daily news - always much appreciated

 

As for Boxing Day here at Chez Aussie, it's always a relaxing day watching the the first day of the Test cricket in Melbourne and enjoying the company of assorted family members who visit over Christmas

 

No time for shopping! 

 

 

102 >> My BP medicine is available in the Wal-Mart $4 list. You may wish to check that. I had my doctor revise a lot of my stuff so I could get as much as I could in the "cheap stack".
 
Yep, I insisted my Doc prescribe off the $4 Walmart list for both BP and cholesterol meds. And if you get 3 month scrips, it's even cheaper at $10 for 3 months.
 
Since I have no coverage, I foot all bills myself. You might even say I'm self insured.
 
Golly gee, I can hardly wait to start getting dunned by the IRS for the fucking John Roberts 'tax'.

103 My BP medicine is available in the Wal-Mart $4 list. You may wish to check that. I had my doctor revise a lot of my stuff so I could get as much as I could in the "cheap stack". **** I have prescriptions in three different places. Short-term meds are at Walgreens. Long-term meds which are on Walmart's discount list are filled there. I told them I don't have insurance because, otherwise, my copayment is a minimum of $20. Long-term meds which aren't on Walmart's discount list are through a mail-in program. It's a little bit of pita to manage it all, but this routine saves a lot of money.

104 Egypt's Islamist president unilaterally decreed greater authorities for himself Thursday and effectively neutralized a judicial system that had emerged as a key opponent by declaring that the courts are barred from challenging his decisions. Riding high on U.S. and international praise for mediating a Gaza cease-fire, Mohammed Morsi put himself above oversight and gave protection to the Islamist-led assembly writing a new constitution from a looming threat of dissolution by court order. But the move is likely to fuel growing public anger that he and his Muslim Brotherhood are seizing too much power. In what was interpreted by rights activists as a de facto declaration of emergency law, one of Morsi's decrees gave him the power to take "due measures and steps" to deal with any "threat" to the revolution, national unity and safety or anything that obstructs the work of state institutions. Morsi framed his decisions as necessary to protect the revolution that toppled Hosni Mubarak nearly two years ago and to cement the nation's transition to democratic rule. Many activists, including opponents of the Brotherhood, criticize the judiciary as packed with judges and prosecutors sympathetic to Mubarak. Brotherhood supporters accuse the courts of trying to block their agenda. "He had to act to save the country and protect the course of the revolution," said one of Morsi's aides, Pakinam al-Sharqawi, speaking on Al-Jazeera. "It is a major stage in the process of completing the January 25th revolution," she said, alluding to the starting day of last year's uprising against Mubarak. This is obama's new best friend

105 There are a number of companies that will walk you through setting one up. Mine is through Mellon Bank and they have a lot of info on their home page. https://hsamember.com/home.html ***** Thanks, Vic. You're a wealth of information.

106 We have these feeding frenzies on Boxing Day when hundreds of people go crazy and line up for hours before opening times to race in for the 2 microwaves or 1 fridge at half pricethat the store deems available for that day.....

------

Yes, but do your countrymen jump over each other with their butt cracks showing?  Ours do.  And they do it all for a $9.99 Hamilton Beach mixer or the like.

107 I lost a friend who voted Bama, Really decent guy,  Brain Surgeon graduate of UM very nice person. We got into a vicious email exchange over the election. A couple of days ago LAX entrance  was blocked by SEIU members forcing a delay , missed , flights etc..
Man to Man when I explained those are the very people who got the 2nd term, I broke it off well in to his orifice. And you know the hits just will keep coming..More civil unrest with working class to come comrades..

108 I got an incredible deal on a 10' sheet metal brake and some masonry tools.

Got to replace some siding and repair the foundation before the really cold weather sets in.

109 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 23, 2012 08:31 AM (UTq/I)


You missed the entire point. Medical expenses on 1040 Schedule A now have an auto 10% subtraction. HSAs are written off under a different category and you do not even need to itemize to write them.


You write off what you spent from the HSA up to the 6K limit.  The only drawback is you can no longer write off OTC even if the Dr ordered it.


Also you have to have some kind of high deductible (catestrophic) insurance plant to qualify for an HSA.

110 Spent yesterday morning preparing green beans and spuds for the church ladies. Then we went down and served up for some of those less fortunates among us. No kids nor family around this year so we passed on the big pig out. Overall made me thankful for what I do have. I'm no selfless do gooder, so the reality check was appreciated. Worst part is: no leftovers!

111 Forty-nine years ago today, Doctor Who debuted on the BBC. Sadly, the deaths of authors C.S. Lewis and Aldous Huxley the day before pushed the good doctor off the front pages of the British papers. I understand there was also some fuss in Dallas that kept the American papers from reporting the moment with the appropriate pomp and solemnity.

112 Americans vote for the guy who promises the most free stuff and trample each other to get the cheapest stuff at Wally World...

113 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 23, 2012 08:24 AM (piMMO)


I admit I just skimmed the article, but I take it that this (HSA) requires you to be in an insurance plan other than Medicare.  It would be nice if you could contribute from an IRA distribution or pension into an HSA and then fund other insurance,  prescriptions, and medical bills from the HSA.

114 112 Americans vote for the guy who promises the most free stuff and trample each other to get the cheapest stuff at Wally World... ..... Those folks who like to trash Walmart had better hope like all get out that Walmart is still there for them when they need them because that time is near. They, too, will know the value of a good deal before long. Hey! Walmart is good enough for Prince Harry, it's good enough for a lib.

115 Posted by: packsoldier at November 23, 2012 08:36 AM (QwaL0)

Not me pal.  Nor do I appreciate being lumped in with the braindead zombie horde.

116 NDH, on a related topic I recently went to the dentist and was dismayed at the prices for fillings, root canals and crowns. Even when I had dental coverage it only paid a rather low percentage of those costs. The hygienist overheard me answer 'no' when the billing lady asked if I had insurance and discretely told me about discount dental plans. 'Sign up for this one before we start the work and here's the prices you'll pay,' she said. They are 50% to 60% of the 'list price' so instead of about $4k it will cost me just over $2k.

I wonder if Obamacare will wreck this too.

117 DTShangers- I'll bite. Insurance coverage in every country but which? Ours?

118

106 Lady in Black

 

Yes we do have some American style tactics here - brawls, fights, security guards knocked over....plus butt cracks on display and don't forget the tatts

 

 

I think some people do the Boxing Day sale crowd thing to get their mugs on the evening telly news

 

 

119 Sounds like Boxing Day is no longer what is used o be or I am just woefully out of date.



I thought Boxing Day was a tradition from England in which the more fortunate boxed up their "used clothing material and other "stuff" and took it down to the church to be distributed to the less fortunate. Sort of like what a lot of us Yanks do with the Salvation Army and other local charities.

120 Posted by: Retread at November 23, 2012 08:40 AM (zxitI)

I thought the dental lobby kept themselves out of Obamacare while the AMA prostituted themselves.

121 @ 98, what health insurance do you have? Please do tell! I have none, it's like betting against yourself. Never bet against the Bean! But with that said, I have a wife and daughter in the US. Is there one plan that would cover us all cheaply. As for me, spending a million dollars to live 3 more years in pain is not worth it. I know when to walk into the woods and eat a bullet. But I would like a good affordable plan like that for the wife and kids!

122 on a related topic I recently went to the dentist and was dismayed at the prices for fillings, root canals and crowns. Even when I had dental coverage it only paid a rather low percentage of those costs. The hygienist overheard me answer 'no' when the billing lady asked if I had insurance and discretely told me about discount dental plans. 'Sign up for this one before we start the work and here's the prices you'll pay,' she said. They are 50% to 60% of the 'list price' so instead of about $4k it will cost me just over $2k. I wonder if Obamacare will wreck this too. Posted by: Retread at November 23, 2012 08:40 AM (zxitI) Just a word of caution: Any "Dentist" that is going to give that large a discount, well lets just say, buyer beware. And THIS I know what I talk of

123 I admit I just skimmed the article, but I take it that this (HSA) requires you to be in an insurance plan other than Medicare.



I'll have to look into that because I will be on medicare soon.  But keep in mind that medicare doesn't cover all your medical expense, in particular , the doughnut hole in the drugs. HSA may be good for that.

124 I thought the dental lobby kept themselves out of Obamacare while the AMA prostituted themselves. Posted by: Hrothgar - L.I.B or SMOD for the Children at November 23, 2012 08:41 AM (Cnqmv) The ADA ( American Dental Association) sucks and the only reason Dental was left out of obamacare is that dentistry is not important enough to include. It sure was not due to any lobbying by the weak kneed ADA.

125 My husband upgraded our rental car to a Land Rover in Ireland, and unbeknownced to me forewent the insurance I reserved to offset the additional cost. He took out the whole side of that Rover on a stone bridge passing a lorry. Ireland and Haiti were the only two countries that credit cards don't cover. Expensive trip made more so.

126 #117  I would guess the US.  My husband works overseas and his prior company had a world-wide insurance plan.  When Obamacare passed they would no longer cover me in the US.  I couldn't get insured by their branch offices in the US because husband didn't work out of them and insurance can't cross state lines.  They offered to pay for a private plan and that is when I found out that insurance companies were not giving private insurance to anyone who was even a slight risk,  since in 2014 they will have to take everyone.

127 As for me, spending a million dollars to live 3 more years in pain is not worth it. I know when to walk into the woods and eat a bullet.

But I would like a good affordable plan like that for the wife and kids!

Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at November 23, 2012 08:42 AM (6YKrv)

I foolishly made a statement like that when my wife and I were reading an article about Brian Keith who did that when diagnosed with brain cancer.

When I was diagnosed with colon cancer while I was in the hospital wifey hauled every gun in the house out and his them at MIL's house. 

I just recently got them back.

128 NGU, Thanks for the info on the middle east. Israel has more patience, restraint, than I do! I understand that other nations would condemn them for self defense - but I would think that most, even those who loudly condemn the action, would breathe a sigh of relief if the bullies in the middle east were taught a lesson.

129

119 Vic

 

Boxing Day these days means a public holiday and the first day of the Melbourne Test cricket

 

Down Under that's tradition!

 

130 Down Under that's tradition!

Posted by: aussie at November 23, 2012 08:50 AM (/chYc)

I guess I am woefully out of date.  My lawn, I keep in bare.

131 It  is going to be fun watching the Obamacare shit hammer fall on his fans. The big nonprofit clinic full of Dems where I work one day a week recently got a notice listing all the services they will now have to provide to all patients. There will be no reimbursement. Stunned silence. Fun times.

132 And speaking of Brian Keith, Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing please don't tell us about any sexual peccadilloes by him.  He was one of my favorite actors and it is always sad when one "eats a bullet".

133 Just a word of caution: Any "Dentist" that is going to give that large a discount, well lets just say, buyer beware. And THIS I know what I talk of Posted by: Nevergiveup

That thought crossed my mind but I found this dentist through two current patients who are quite happy with their treatment. I went to her for a second opinion and she pretty well confirmed what I'd been told by the first dentist as far as the treatment plan so based on that admittedly small sample I don't think the risk of sub-standard work is high. We shall see.

134 Al Jazeera: Amnesty International attacks Australia over camp for asylum-seekers on the Pacific island of Nauru. "Australia is again in serious breach of its international obligations," "appalling conditions and they are completely unacceptable for vulnerable people," "a toxic mix of uncertainty, unlawful detention and inhumane conditions" etc.

"They just can't get away from being watched," he said of the detainees, about half of whom are from Sri Lanka, with others from Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq.

http://tinyurl.com/ao2gc2r

135 The European Union on Friday called on Egypt's President Mohamed Morsi to respect the democratic process in his country after he issued a decree exempting all his decisions from legal challenge until a new parliament is elected. "It is of utmost importance that (the) democratic process be completed in accordance with the commitments undertaken by the Egyptian leadership," a spokesman for EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton said in a statement. These commitments included "the separation of powers, the independence of justice, the protection of fundamental freedoms and the holding of democratic parliamentary elections as soon as possible", he said. Morsi's decree on Thursday also shielded from legal challenge an Islamist-dominated assembly writing Egypt's new constitution, as well as the upper house of parliament, which is dominated by Islamists allied to Morsi. obama and the US State Department still silent about their new best friend

136 @ 127 Mr. Vic, I don't have cancer as far as I know. I went to a hospital over here (doctors very good in China and cheap too). They said... You have spots on your lungs ..you smoke too much, you have nodes on your liver , you drink too much, you will die from the cancer. Funny story..I was in there for a hernia operation. I snuck out for Mc'D's (its was across the street) because the food sucks here and a case of beer and a carton of cigs. I bought little huggy bear key chains for all the fine doctors and pretty nurses while I was on the "road trip". I came back and they were very upset that they had lost the 'American". They had been looking for me. heh! I gave out them "huggy bears" they even had pretty nurses coming up from other floors. I had to sneak out again to satisfy demand! But seriously, do I really need Obama to tell me I have to buy health insurance? The health insurance companies were in the meetings. The price will go sky high and our taxes will pay for it. If I ever get some incurable disease I will eat a bullet. F health isnurance! What did the patriots in 1776 do when they got sick? Did they bankrupt the family? Or did they do the right thing?

137 Ive decided to institute a new tradition at chez elizabethe. On Black Friday, instead of bringing more crap into the house, we are going to designate that day as the great purge day and get rid of all the crap we haven't used in the last year. I have about five kitchen appliances, a bunch of pots and pans, and some furniture and baby stuff that is not working for us or we don't need and is only still here because of inertia. It's going today!

138 That thought crossed my mind but I found this dentist through two current patients who are quite happy with their treatment. I went to her for a second opinion and she pretty well confirmed what I'd been told by the first dentist as far as the treatment plan so based on that admittedly small sample I don't think the risk of sub-standard work is high. We shall see. Posted by: Retread at November 23, 2012 08:58 AM (zxitI) Dentistry is VERY time intensive. I can tell you, as a Dentist, that anyone cutting their fees by 40-50% has to cut something to get there and that something is often the time it takes to do a procedure and also the materials used. There is NO FREE LUNCH, and anyone who thinks that particular Dentist has found the secret of low priced great work, is deluding themselves. Sorry to be so direct, but it is what it is. And the results of subpar work may not be evident to the Patient for years to come.

139

If you need to get serious dental work, look into medical tourism.

 

My wife and I started going to Buenos Aires specifically to see a dental team who worked with Swiss implants.  The work she needed in the U.S. would be over $150,000, but in Argentina with dentist who were more experienced in this area, it was only $60,000.  Well worth the trips.

140 117  DTShangers-
I'll bite. Insurance coverage in every country but which? Ours?

Posted by: Justamom at November 23, 2012 08:41 AM (Sptt

Ding Ding!  We have a winner!  Everywhere except the USA. 

@121 Judge Roy,

BUPA/AXA type plans are relatively affordable 4-5k a year and cover everything including dental and air-evac to HK for catastrophic issues.  The price basically doubles if you want to include the US so I don't know about your fam.  If you go to the US to visit short-term coverage during your trip is 30-40 dollars.  Pricing depends on age and if you smoke etc.  There are laowai run agencies in Shanghai and Beijing that can quote you on the best deal.  email me at dahtou at yahoo and I'll send you my agents deets

141 I have an online hobby-business ( my second job) and I've been running a black Friday Weekend sale for the last two years. It's worked out well for everybody. If your gonna do it online is the way to go!

142 @Vic, #17 They will put in a toll just like the idiots out here with their Columbia River Crossing. Nevermind that it will kill the housing market on this side of the river, since no one wants to pay a toll to commute over to Portland. And they want to charge us to put in light rail, which no one here wants. They snuck that in without a vote. Then we voted on it this election and now they say well it's too late to change it now. Add that to the fact that their plan for the new bridge is way too low and can't get the Corps of Engineers permission for the plan, and you have a pack of true morons (and not the good kind of morons!)

143 Wow, its already up to 42° here from 27° a couple of hours ago Maybe it will make it to 68 today.

144 Yes we do have some American style tactics here- brawls, fights, security guards knocked over....plus butt cracks on display and don't forget the tatts I think some people do the Boxing Day sale crowd thing to get their mugs on the evening telly news Posted by: aussie at November 23, 2012 08:41 AM (/chYc) yes, but Australians all have that great accent so it sounds much better when it's happening.

145 Posted by: notsothoreau at November 23, 2012 09:06 AM (uPhCY)


I lived in WA State for 6 months.  I hated it. Could not wait to get out.  At the time, it was worse than CA.

146 Oops, but you are talking about OR.

147 I have an online hobby-business ( my second job) and I've been running a black Friday Weekend sale for the last two years. It's worked out well for everybody. If your gonna do it online is the way to go! Posted by: small town girl at November 23, 2012 09:06 AM (ogVxN) do you do Small Business Saturday?

148 My wife and I started going to Buenos Aires specifically to see a dental team who worked with Swiss implants. The work she needed in the U.S. would be over $150,000, but in Argentina with dentist who were more experienced in this area, it was only $60,000. Well worth the trips. Posted by: jwest at November 23, 2012 09:05 AM (ZDsRL) Yeah you can get "margins" overseas, and when that work needs to be checked and trouched up or starts to fail, what do you do?

149 Is anyone else at work right now? I cannot believe my company is making me sit here and do nothing all day.

150

130 Vic

 

Hey there's enough to worry about in your own country let alone know obscure things about Down Under (especially since you just missed out on being a cricket playing nation when you kicked the Poms out)

 

 

Shame in a way as we could be discussing cricket.....

 

And talking about healthcare - I can't get my head around the fact that your employers provide healthcare there - not done here unless an employer adds it to a nice salary package

 

 

 

 

151

And talking abouthealthcare - I can't get my head around the fact that your employers provide healthcare there - not done here unless an employer adds it to a nice salary package

Yeah, they provide us with healthcare, but its so f'ing expensive and keeps going up it depresses our wages. I'd rather have that piece of my compensation in cash then in health insurance at my age.

152 And talking abouthealthcare - I can't get my head around the fact that your employers provide healthcare there - not done here unless an employer adds it to a nice salary package Posted by: aussie at November 23, 2012 09:09 AM (/chYc) historical accident. During one of the WW, the gov put salary freezes on companies so they had to do things like offer health care and benefits to compete for hiring. right? Someone else knows this better than me, I'm sure. This pisses me off because Republicans never ever make this case strongly enough that health insurance should not be attached to your employer.

153 149 Is anyone else at work right now? I cannot believe my company is making me sit here and do nothing all day. I'm the only one here so far. My boss will be in soon, but everybody else took a vacation day.

154 Yeah you can get "margins" overseas, and when that work needs to be checked and trouched up or starts to fail, what do you do?

 

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 23, 2012 09:09 AM (jE38p)

 

There is an arrangement with a semi-local dentist who can do follow-ups and minor adjustments.  This is really a good deal to look into for a U.S. based dentist that can team up with competent foreign dentists.  It's a whole new profit center.

 

 

155 #95

Bystolic? Sucker is pricey as hell but works better than almost anything else in the market.

156

134 The Light Worker

 

Amnesy International are bleating about these illegal immigrants having to live in tents

 

Hey what about our soldiers in Afghanistan!  What are they living in?

 

 

157 And talking abouthealthcare - I can't get my head around the fact that your employers provide healthcare there - not done here unless an employer adds it to a nice salary package

Posted by: aussie at November 23, 2012 09:09 AM (/chYc)

I wasn't disparaging Australia, I loved Australia when I was there.  I was laughing at myself.


As for employer health insurance, like nearly everything done since FDR was in office, it is the direct result of unintended consequences of government intervention in the market place.


The gov put a cap on wages and salaries so in order to attract the better workers some started offering health insurance as a benefit. Soon all the major companies did.

158 29 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 23, 2012 07:42 AM (piMMO) ****** I am sorry for the downturn in things recently. I hope things get better in both departments.

159 historical accident. During one of the WW, the gov put salary freezes on companies so they had to do things like offer health care and benefits to compete for hiring.

right? Someone else knows this better than me, I'm sure.

This pisses me off because Republicans never ever make this case strongly enough that health insurance should not be attached to your employer.

Posted by: elizabethe at November 23, 2012 09:12 AM (ou/rY)

 

During WW2, the govt put a freeze on wages because ... fairness and fair share or whatever the hell, so companys offered life insurance, forms of health insurance, company cars, etc., as ways to entice potential employees.

Nixon cemented the connection between job and health care when he re-froze wages in the 70s and now we're stuck with it.

When my dad was growing up, his parents paid cash for routine medical and paid out of pocket for catastrophic health insurance, which is what everyone did and was not a big deal.

Also, catastrophic health insurance was cheap because it only covered catstrophies, not routine stuff. Kind of like how insurance is supposed to work... cover low probability, high cost events (like a house fire)

160 I'm the only one here so far. My boss will be in soon, but everybody else took a vacation day.

Posted by: rickl at November 23, 2012 09:12 AM (zoehZ)

 

Yeah, like 10-15% of my office is in, but all of my customers are schools, who are definitely not in. I didn't want to waste a vaca day on a do nothing day. Kind of thinking I shoudl have.

161 i was in target last night.

never again

I did get a bluray copy of act of valor for $10 tho.

162 9 Christian conservative natural Republican gets life in prison in TX for 8th DUI. But he was a real AOS Moron with a BAC of .446. I want to know how he was still breathing. He had had previous felony DUI convictions, which I have to assume DUI with accidents that injured people. And yes I denounce myself for this snark. http://is.gd/MWgRAg Posted by: Vic at November 23, 2012 07:25 AM (YdQQY) FTA: Equivalent to consuming 23.5 beers. Heh. Done that on more than one occasion. No biggie, really.

163 Yeah, when I was growing up nobody had health insurance. Doctors made house calls and an office visit was $20.


The good old days before government got involved in healthcare.

164 There is an arrangement with a semi-local dentist who can do follow-ups and minor adjustments. This is really a good deal to look into for a U.S. based dentist that can team up withcompetent foreign dentists. It's a whole new profit center. Posted by: jwest at November 23, 2012 09:12 AM (ZDsRL) Well first of all your prices seem all out of whack. $160,000 for Dentistry? Never heard of that? Even for all implants and Teeth is would not be that high. Closer to $60,000 sounds like the "correct" price? So your numbers are suspect. Also, unlike here, there is no laws always about what kind of materials are used. And while you say they have an "arrangement" with a local Dentist, well that's fine, if true, but I can't tell you all the horror stories I have seen and heard about people going overseas to get work done and it's terrible and fails or causes untold problems.

165

144 elizabethe

 

Hey we don't have an accent, you all do!

 

On your plan to get rid of unwanted stuff on a particular day - I've just decided  that  Boxing Day will be the day here for this so thanks for the idea

166 Heh. Done that on more than one occasion. No biggie, really.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 23, 2012 09:17 AM (zcVa1)

But were you driving afterwards?  LOL, I have drank a whole case of beer in one sitting before.  But no driving afterwards.

167 And it looks like Obama's forced truce is about to go into the shitter.


Soon, all things Obama to go in shitter.
With the survival of Obama's "Part Time Work Act" (AHCA),
millions of people will be scrambling for part time jobs who were , until now, employed in humble jobs making low wages. This will not absolve them from the requirements of the AHCA and they will have to find Health Insurance on their own, pay for it monthly and pray that the mechanism to fund the after tax refund of the governments promised portion is somehow made part of some other law since it does not exist in the AHCA. The insurance will exceed their monthly income and they can live in their cars if they are fortuitous enough to own them outright.

168 #159

Another important detail is large businesses using health coverage as a weapon against new small competitors. In the early 50s they convinced Congress to pass legislation that gave a tax break to businesses that gave their employees health coverage, which only larger companies could afford to do. This in turn made it even more advantageous for the big incumbents.

169 160 I didn't want to waste a vaca day on a do nothing day. Kind of thinking I shoudl have. Same here.

170 @4 Yea Fux had Axeldouche on the weekend before the election.

171

151 Timin 203

 

How can employers afford to pay healthcare with all those costs for all employees???

 

172 37 Have to take the wifey out to get a tree today, and then get the decorations out of storage. This on the heels of recovering from forced family interaction day Thanksgiving. Oy ..

I finally wised up this year and put the lights up a couple of weeks ago, while it was still warm.  I usually wait until Dec, when it's freezing outside and the lights are good and stiff, and the whole exercise is a colossal pain in the backside.   I haven't turned them on yet, but it gives me a warm feeling knowing they are there and that's another chore done the easy way. 

I may put them up in July next year, or better yet, become one of those people who leaves them up year round.

173

174 If you want to do health tourism check out Thailand.  Bangkok has some of the best hospitals as an after-effect of the Vietnam war.  Done lasik there and knee surgery before I was insured.  It was top notch and very affordable.  Afterward you can hit the islands!

175 Less hours on lights, more on closing italics.

176 @151 Helicopter Bennie will drop some Bernanke bucks by to help pay besides employers are all evil whitey rich guys anyway and they owe.

177
Vic @ 17:

VA holding public hearings for making their part of I-95 a toll road.

Great way to kill off businesses along the freeway that depend on travelers! What's not to like? Also, travelers will be all but forced to use so called 'traveler centers' for overpriced gas, and horrid food priced well above what comparable fare costs now, and is available off just about every exit. For people driving through the state, it's not so big that they can't make it all the way through on a tank of gas, which will be an incentive for people to tank up, and eat in either NC, or MD.

The very best part of this scheme is that very little of the revenue proposed tolls will generate will actually go toward maintenance of the turnpike. This will end up costing the state thousands of jobs, will kill off hundreds of businesses, and will destroy tourism to the state.

I suspect they'll end up doing it.

178 How can employers afford to pay healthcare with all those costs for all employees??? Posted by: aussie at November 23, 2012 09:24 AM (/chYc) It's all included in what you and I pay for their products. NO FREE LUNCH

179 Black Friday Barrel time!

180

164  Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 23, 2012 09:18 AM (jE38p)

 

The total price was actually for the two of us, but with the bulk of the work done on the wife.  It includes the cadaver bone grafts in the jaw, a total of 21 Nobel implants and posts plus 37 Zirconia crowns, all the imaging and other ancellary work.

 

On top of that, there were only a few dentists in the U.S. who would even do that extensive a job.  None of them were cheap.

181

152 elizabethe

 

Thanks for that - I didn't know the history of your healthcare

No wonder you're all worried

182 A buddy I have known since elementary owns a small business and he doesn't think he will be around this time next year because of sobamacare. He is an evil rich whitey cracker though so he deserves it.

183 aussie, Amnesty International's advice, or Al Jazeera's, is useful only in that it tells us what people who hate us want us to do. It's like "international scholars" telling the Israelis that the smart legal play for them would be, in effect, to take continuous rocket attacks with no serious response, or the advice that Democratic operatives with bylines give the Republican Party on the desirability of embracing amnesty for illegal immigrants (who will then vote two thirds Democratic in perpetuity).

When I provide a link to Al Jazeera, it comes with that understanding. The story is not "X must be true, Al Jazeera says so," it is "anti-Western sources are pushing this narrative, and here is an anti-Western source doing so."

184 59 "Mayans, Muzzies, Marxists, malcontents, miscreants and miscellaneous meshugas notwithstanding." ...what's a meshuga? Posted by: CanaDave at November 23, 2012 08:01 AM (voRpZ) Hey Dave: "Meshugas" is the Yiddish word for craziness/insanity. A crazy person is a "meshuga." Happy Thanksgiving and "zei gezunt!"

185 There is NO FREE LUNCH, and anyone who thinks that particular Dentist has found the secret of low priced great work, is deluding themselves. Sorry to be so direct, but it is what it is. And the results of subpar work may not be evident to the Patient for years to come.

No need to apologize for being direct. I'd rather have a blunt opinion before than regret after.

The specific work being done is one root canal and two crowns. 'List price' would be about $3800, with the discount dental plan the price is about $2200. The plan isn't insurance but rather a price list the dentist agreed to when she signed up.

Opine, please.

186 I remember reading a good article by Walter Williams that explained how you must be productive enough to earn your wages and benefits in order for your employer to make a profit. In other words, if you are making $15/hr and your benefits and taxes cost your employer another 10/hr you had better be producing at least $25/hr of something in order for your company to turn a profit. You have to earn your benefits.

187 The total price was actually for the two of us, but with the bulk of the work done on the wife. It includes the cadaver bone grafts in the jaw, a total of 21 Nobel implants and posts plus 37 Zirconia crowns, all the imaging and other ancellary work. On top of that, there were only a few dentists in the U.S. who would even do that extensive a job. None of them were cheap. Posted by: jwest at November 23, 2012 09:27 AM (ZDsRL) I'm glad it worked out for the 2 of you, but from my experience yours is not the typical story.

188 I love Black Friday shopping.   I'm doing it now.   Of course, I'm doing it through amazon (yes through the ace link) so I suppose that's cheating but I say it counts. 

189

157 Vic

I didn't take your post as disparaging and I know you had a great time here!

 

I'm just really sorry you had to kick the Poms out all those years ago because an Aussie V USA Test cricket match every 4 years would have been awesome!

190 Posted by: Sticky Wicket at November 23, 2012 09:25 AM (L7hol)


NC got permission from the feds to go toll last year so I expect them to do it too soon.

191 Black Friday was very easy for me. I had a very limited range of products I was interested in and could easily compile a list that fit on a single page of places worth bothering with.

Of the ones who started Thursday evening, Wal-mart was the place to go. Everything was very orderly and I would have been in and out with my stuff very quickly if I'd caught on the how things were organized quicker. In fact, getting int he right line immediately would have gotten me in and out in perhaps half an hour.

Four video games, three of them HD collections of prior generation hits remade for current machines, and one surprise item that wasn't part of the sale but I came across it in a clearance bin while standing on line. Really hard to find Wii game that was very unlike the typical fare on that system. As I never owned a Wii and picked up a Wii U for cheap earlier in the week, I was pleasantly surprised by that find.

I may look for a few more items today but there just isn't much of interest. If some are left after the crowds are largely gone I'll indulge. Otherwise, it isn't like I really need any of this stuff and have money to burn.

192 Anyone see any news on the "big strike" by Wal-Mart employees? Wondering how that was going.

193 Actually I would prefer to have more toll roads, not less.  It is like a flat tax for road funding.  Reduces the ability for the government to meddle with the "highway trust fund" (i.e. slush fund) for green energy boondoggles and the like.  Of course this idea only really works if the gas tax goes away.  Maybe this is something Republicans can push since everybody thinks they ought to become more libertarian anyway.

194 The specific work being done is one root canal and two crowns. 'List price' would be about $3800, with the discount dental plan the price is about $2200. The plan isn't insurance but rather a price list the dentist agreed to when she signed up. Opine, please. Posted by: Retread at November 23, 2012 09:31 AM (zxitI) It's as I said before. Your assuming someone willing to take a 40% cut in their fees is not cutting back on you in some way? From my experience, over 30 years as a Dentist, you "usually" get what you pay for. Is paying top dollar any guarantee you will get top work, no. But expecting to get something at such a deep discount, that is so labor intensive, is quite a gamble.

195 Nope haven't heard anything about the China-Mart strike.

196 182 A buddy I have known since elementary owns a small business and he doesn't think he will be around this time next year because of sobamacare. He is an evil rich whitey cracker though so he deserves it.

you know, it's funny. the leftists who support obamacare will say that if a business can't afford to offer its employees health insurance, then it must be a poorly run company and it deserves to go out of business.

simultaneously, they wail and bemoan the concentration of wealth and the domination of the market by big giant mega-corporations.  surprise surprise, the only ones who can afford all of these insane government regulations are the big mega corporations in the first place.

cognitive dissonance, it is what's for lunch in liberal land

197 @ 147 Yes I start Weds night and go thru Sunday. Include Small Business Saturday in the whole shebang.

198 hey hillary is on roll also. She called Assad a real moderate and then just the other day she called Morsi a swell guy and one of the foundations of American Foreign Policy in the Middle East? That's 2 strikes cancels, one more and it's back to bill

199 I am sorry for the downturn in things recently. I hope things get better in both departments. Posted by: Baldy at November 23, 2012 09:14 AM (opS9C) **** Thank you, Baldy. I am Blessed in many ways and have a great deal for which to be thankful this season.

200

178 nevergiveup

 

We have universal healthcare funded through tax and if you want to go to a private hospital you buy private health insurance (you still pay for universal healthcare in your taxes)

 

 

201 We have universal healthcare funded through tax and if you want to go to a private hospital you buy private health insurance (you still pay for universal healthcare in your taxes) Posted by: aussie at November 23, 2012 09:40 AM (/chYc) So a 2 tier system? That is usually what happens.

202 NDH, on a related topic I recently went to the dentist and was dismayed at the prices for fillings, root canals and crowns. Even when I had dental coverage it only paid a rather low percentage of those costs. The hygienist overheard me answer 'no' when the billing lady asked if I had insurance and discretely told me about discount dental plans. 'Sign up for this one before we start the work and here's the prices you'll pay,' she said. They are 50% to 60% of the 'list price' so instead of about $4k it will cost me just over $2k. **** Thank you! I just declined the dental insurance because it was more than $40 per month as a "retiree".

203 Also, there was no sign of protestors at any of the three Wal-marts near me as I cruised around. Not did it appear any employees failed to show up for work.

204 Hillary gave us peace in our time there won't ever be another shot fired in anger.

205 My favorite TG episode (besides WKRP) is BTVS where Indians return & attack them: Buffy: But even though it's hard, we have to end this. Yes, he's been wronged, and I personally would be ready to apologize, but I... Spike: Oh, someone put a stake in me. Xander: You got a lot of volunteers in here. Spike: I just can't take all this mamby-pamby boo-hooing about the bloody Indians. Willow: Uh, the preferred term is... Spike: You won. All right? You came in and you killed them and you took their land. That's what conquering nations do. It's what Caesar did, and he's not goin' around saying, "I came, I conquered, I felt really bad about it." The history of the world is not people making friends. You had better weapons, and you massacred them. End of story. Buffy: Well, I think the Spaniards actually did a lot of - Not that I don't like Spaniards. Spike: Listen to you. How you gonna fight anyone with that attitude? Willow: We don't wanna fight anyone. Buffy: I just wanna have Thanksgiving. Spike: Heh heh. Yeah... Good luck. Willow: Well, if we could talk to him... Spike: You exterminated his race. What could you possibly say that would make him feel better? It's kill or be killed here. Take your bloody pick. Xander: Maybe it's the syphilis talking, but, some of that made sense.

206 Anyone see the hired protesters at Walmart on FOX? None can answer media questions, referring the questions to the "people in the green shirt". hahahaha - this must be due to past embarrassing interviews, where the person doesn't know why they're there, or what their sign says.

207 Today in 1963, Doctor Who premiered.

208 The turkey drop episode is the best WKRP.

209 Bad week for clowns A 67-year-old man dressed as a clown went into cardiac arrest and died in front of throngs of horrified spectators at the MacyÂ’s Thanksgiving Day Parade yesterday.

210

183 The Lightworker

 

Yes believe me we are in the midst of an illegal immigration invasion and all the bleeding hearts (same breed as yours) follow the Al Jaz line

 

 The majority of these illegals are here for economic reasons not seeking asylum - as in the civil war in Sri Lanka ended 5 years ago and the place is marketing here in OZ for their tourist industry! 

 

So it's OK for us to go to a resort there but hundreds of Sri Lankans are "fleeing"oppression to come here?

 

 

211 Bad week for clowns

and alexthechick smiles

212

I lucked out with a 7am BF start time. Still, for my entire life, I will never shop BF. The crap that low paid workers go through (missing Thanksgiving, long hours, little pay, high stress) is not worth it. It is just a bunch of "deals" on the crappiest versions of crappy stuff.

 

Sure, that TV or laptop SOUNDS like a good deal but they are garbage. Spend more, get quality.

213 As God is my witness. I thought turkeys could fly.

214 149 Is anyone else at work right now? I cannot believe my company is making me sit here and do nothing all day. Posted by: Timin203 at November 23, 2012 09:09 AM (5WxMt) ---- Yep - worked yesterday all day, then again at 3:00AM, then at 5:00AM, then a nap, then working again all day today.

215 I don't think you will have to worry about anyone here doing that Gabe. (Black Friday shopping) --------------------------------------- You forgot about ChemJeff.

216 Horny the Clown and Captain Spaulding never have a bad week.

217 and alexthechick smiles

Posted by: chemjeff at November 23, 2012 09:49 AM (d/5qf)

I am appalled and horrified that anyone would think I'm happy that . . . . yeah I can't even type that without smiling.

218 Posted by: chemjeff at November 23, 2012 09:35 AM (d/5qf)


OK, a "toll fee" lockup. Hahahahaha.  All governemnt fees and taxes are fungible money.  They may honestly devote 100% of the "fees" to the road, while diverting all the gas taxes and "road txes" to socialist projects.

It is bull shit. You are already paying for maintenance and not getting it now.

219 Bwahaha! A guy got a tattoo of the turkey drop! http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3493/3998496710_b3e8c22e54_z.jpg?zz=1

220

201 nevergiveup

 

Yes two tiers but that only after a Federal Government changed the healthcare system a few decades ago

 

That Federal Government was a Labor one = your Democrats

221 Anyone see any news on the "big strike" by Wal-Mart employees? Wondering how that was going. ***** I walked in a couple of minutes late and missed the location from which they were reporting, but FNC had a piece a little while ago where there were quite a number of protesters, but their approved location was well away from the from the store entrances. The reporter asked several folks what the strike is about and they all referred him to the "guys in the green shirts". Then, the guys in the green shirts wouldn't speak. It normally takes the NLRB six weeks to make a ruling and Walmart only filed their charge last week, so the NLRB had a convenient excuse not to rule before the busiest shopping day of the year. From what I've heard, it seems pretty clear cut that the unions are violating the law. And another thing.... just how much do folks in retail think they SHOULD be making?!

222 It is bull shit. You are already paying for maintenance and not getting it now. Posted by: Vic at November 23, 2012 09:53 AM (YdQQY) Misappropriation of funds? Will these scales never fall from my eyes?

223 Well, we are headed out. To shop, on Black Friday. Not you average shopper though. We are going to hit the antique malls in Lexington VA.

Looking for old reed instruments.

224 Nevergiveup, thanks for your input.

225 OK, a "toll fee" lockup. Hahahahaha. All governemnt fees and taxes are fungible money. They may honestly devote 100% of the "fees" to the road, while diverting all the gas taxes and "road txes" to socialist projects.

It is bull shit. You are already paying for maintenance and not getting it now.

Posted by: Vic at November 23, 2012 09:53 AM (YdQQY)

Well, the advantages to tolls would be that the cost of maintaining the road is explicit, not like now when the gas tax is hidden in the price of gas and most idjits think that the reason why gas is so high is because of "Big Oil price gouging" and they don't realize that the gov't gets more money off gas taxes than eeeeevil Big Oil gets in profits from selling gas.

But it is contingent of course with the gas tax going away, of course.

226 You forgot about ChemJeff.

nah I did my shopping yesterday

227

Hey, look at that...turns out Morsi is a thuggy authoritarian.

 

I.  AM.  SHOCKED.

228 Looking for old reed instruments. Posted by: sTevo at November 23, 2012 09:56 AM (VMcEw) Maybe you'll find an organ.

229 @140, Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it. But I hate insurance companies, they are the devil. I pay car insurance for cars in the US I rarely drive. I hope you are Felix the cat and have a good health insurance company in your magic bag of tricks for my wife and daughter in the US. BTW you have to be an old guy to remember Felix the cat, the wonderful, wonderful cat! I only have 1 cat now, Zi Zi died,I buried her and said some words before flying back to China but I am trying to teach Jodine (Crazy cat) how to shoot. She can't get her toes around most guns but she likes the AK pistol, go figure! When I am back to the US, its cat treats and teaching her how to aim! I am the cat whisperer!

230 Some of these toll roads are owned by foreign companies. The state gets a one time payoff and the foreign company gets the toll fees. Restaurants and truckstops along the toll road raise their prices.

231 Is anyone else at work right now? I cannot believe my company is making me sit here and do nothing all day. **** I always loved working between Thanksgiving and New Years Day. Folks are on vacation or making end of year visits to customers. Customers are chilled because peak-season is over. The office is quiet and I could catch up and clean out my emails and filing, take lunches out instead of at my desk, and be more prepared than most when January 2nd rolled around.

232
A 67-year-old man dressed as a clown went into cardiac arrest and died...

Posted by: IBT at November 23, 2012 09:47 AM (2t6Gz)


Mom knew best when she said "stop clowning around"!

233 And another thing.... just how much do folks in retail think they SHOULD be making?! Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 23, 2012 09:55 AM (piMMO) I worked for WalMart back in 1995 for extra christmas money....The unions were trying to get a foothold way back then. I was surprised at what a nice company walmart was to wok for. I was only seasonal help but still qualified for many of the benefits regular workers received. I am sure it has changed since then, but the pay was reasonable for a seasonal cashier.

234 Work is for suckers in the glorious collective. Everything is free comrade dear leader will make it so.

235

Lying in bed early yesterday. Fired up the Kindle and looked at the free App of the day called “Turkey Shoot”. I clicked in to the graphics and unexpectedly the audio went off full blast. Lots of staccato gobbling! Wife went from a dead sleep to sitting straight up in bed. Funniest thing ever to start Turkey Day.  I just may have to make it a Holiday tradition. (unbeknownst to the lovely wifey)...

236 Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at November 23, 2012 09:59 AM (6YKrv) I remember Felix "Felix the cat, the wonderful wonderful cat. Whenever he gets in a fix,he reaches into his bag of tricks."

237

And another thing.... just how much do folks in retail think they SHOULD be making?!

 

Amount this has to do with increasing Wal-Mart employee wages:  Zero.

 

Amount this has to do with feathering union leadership nests:  Way more than zero.

238
Johnny Fever @ 230:

Restaurants and truckstops along the toll road raise their prices.

There's just nothing like a monopoly. I hit a travel center on the NY thruway, McDonalds, for something quick, and cheap. The dollar menu double cheeseburgers cost me 2.49 each.

239 Walmart in "suburban Maryland" on FNC now. They just reported that "Reverend Jones' asked Walmart for assuarances that workers who walked out would not be retaliated against. FNC reports that the exec kept his cool but would not commit to that. The bastards walked off their jobs, leaving their co-workers to take up the slack, and customers scrambling for assistance. Fire the fuckers! There are millions out there looking for work right now.

240 Vic...
On my 2nd Denon receiver...You won't regret buying a Denon at all, rock solid, handle home theatre/gaming like they were made for it (actually, they are!).

241 Have I mentioned that I've been a specialist in health insurance for a couple of decades now? I'm sure I have, why, maybe I'd be willing to answer questions!

Seriously, anything specific, post it, I'll do my best to answer.

242 Nevergiveup has one viewpoint, but it is not mine.  Medical Tourism is the next big thing due to Obamacare.  I had bariatric surgery in Mexico (the very idea freaked me out, my family out, everybody I knew out) since I am self-employed and have no insurance.  The hospital was new and dedicated to treating 'rich' Americans. The staff was top-notch (my surgeon teaches the procedure in the US at major hospitals), the atmosphere was like being at a spa. The price difference was $12,000, including airfare, etc.  When I got home, I became a patient of one of the top surgeons in the US, who, rather than fighting the trend, *welcomes* Mexican patients for aftercare and long-term follow-up. Win/win all around.  As the new regs hit, and everyone becomes more and more 'self-pay', this is the wave of the future.  American medical people would be wise to ride it/join it, not fight it.

Do you have to be careful and do a lot of research? Yes. But I do that here, as well!  I don't walk in anywhere and just hand over my body - especially when unconsciousness is involved!

Side note:  Since I pay in full, in cash, at the time of the procedure(s), I always get at least 10% discount in the US and often much more - 50% for echo-cardiogram just two weeks ago. It's called 'self-pay' and all the clinics, dental offices, blood labs, etc., around here [Northern Indiana] offer it.  But you have to ask for it.

243 I am partial myself with moving towards a "user fee" model for taxation anyway.

Roads - paid for with tolls for interstate/intrastate highways, local taxes for local roads

Police/Fire protection - paid for with a type of property tax (degree of protection is proportional to the amount of property you have worth protecting), as well as some type of per capita tax for protection based on crimes that aren't property crimes

Schools - if not outright privatized, paid for with a per capita tax on number of children

National Defense - paid for with some type of wealth or property tax, based on the same idea as police protection (degree of national defense expenditure on your behalf is proportional to the amount of stuff you have worth protecting)

Plus, the taxes are all itemized into a giant receipt.

Crazy I know, but I think it's preferable to the idea of having some giant slush fund where government can just use it to dole out favors.

244 Crazy I know, but I think it's preferable to the idea of having some giant slush fund where government can just use it to dole out favors. Posted by: chemjeff at November 23, 2012 10:06 AM (d/5qf) And that dooms it to failure.

245

Schools - if not outright privatized, paid for with a per capita tax on number of children

Chemjeff, that would kill the birth rate, which is the last thing we need.

 

Having said that, we need a government about one-third the size it is now.

246 Posted by: Pentangle at November 23, 2012 10:05 AM (6VI0X) A few years back one of the news shows....60 minutes I think .....had a segment on that very thing. I believe the hospital was in Singapore. A majority of the Drs. were American. A bypass surgery was 25-50k vs 300k plus....the recuperation was almost spa-like with gourmet meals...valet and spa treatments. I have been told Costa Rica is following the same model.

247 National Defense - paid for with some type of wealth or property tax, based on the same idea as police protection (degree of national defense expenditure on your behalf is proportional to the amount of stuff you have worth protecting) **** You're going to get complaints on this one. First, no one citizen is more worthy of the basic protections of life and property than another. Second, this is the one area where ALL citizens should be paying something. Not all can afford to pay the same amount, but all should have skin in the game.

248 Riding the train to Philly from DC. This is the way to travel. Roomy seat, electricity to charge the phone, no TSA hassles. And I am here on the Q with the wireless. ,

249 Ex FiL would go to Argentina for dental work. About half the price of the US even when including the airfare. It doesn't take much to rack up a $20k dental bill for older folks.

250 @ Vic, gummit and state taxes on gas...49 cents per gallon average...Oil company profit..2-8 cents per gallon depending upon where it is extracted. Why isn't someone all up in the Bamsters face about this?

251 A few years back one of the news shows....60 minutes I think .....had a segment on that very thing. I believe the hospital was in Singapore. A majority of the Drs. were American. A bypass surgery was 25-50k vs 300k plus....the recuperation was almost spa-like with gourmet meals...valet and spa treatments. I have been told Costa Rica is following the same model. **** I saw that and my first thought was, and okay exactly what recourse do you have when something goes wrong. Our system is flawed but I'll take my chances on medical procedures here in the U.S. where at least I know there is some legal protection from major fuck ups.

252 On this whole living wage thing, I wonder if we could develop a society where street sweepers get paid the same amount as Brain Surgeons. Wouldn't matter if you show up drunk, or even do your work correctly. Just think, we would all get paid the same amount, no matter the skill set needed to do the job. We would all be rich....right?
I wonder what we could call such a workers paradise?

253 You're going to get complaints on this one.

First, no one citizen is more worthy of the basic protections of life and property than another.

Well on some basic level, yeah - but let's be real, if the US ever is invaded, the people who are going to be hurt more are the guys like Donald Trump more than people like you and me.

Second, this is the one area where ALL citizens should be paying something. Not all can afford to pay the same amount, but all should have skin in the game.

Well I'd be okay with some sort of per capita tax in addition to a wealth/property based tax.

I'm just throwing ideas out there, mainly.  It's not a position paper.

254 On this whole living wage thing, I wonder if we could develop a society where street sweepers get paid the same amount as Brain Surgeons. Wouldn't matter if you show up drunk, or even do your work correctly. Just think, we would all get paid the same amount, no matter the skill set needed to do the job. We would all be rich....right? I wonder what we could call such a workers paradise? **** Let's pray brain surgeons don't walk off the job on Black Friday, or Christmas, or Easter because of the inconvenience it causes them.

255 233 And another thing.... just how much do folks in retail think they SHOULD be making?!

Kirsten Powers has actually said some good things on Fox lately, including that the MSM was completely awol on Benghazi.  Anyway, she was on Fox last night and was outraged, outraged I tell you, at a clip of a guy saying people should be paid the market value of their labor, and if they didn't like that, they were free to find another job. 

Sheesh, it's a good thing she's easy on the eyes, although even that seems to be slipping away a bit.  She can't hold a candle to the fair Shannon.

256 Sheesh, it's a good thing she's easy on the eyes, although even that seems to be slipping away a bit. She can't hold a candle to the fair Shannon. **** Shannon Bream has been a natural filling in for Brett Baier this week.

257 >I think it is a sign of how really bad the economy is regardless of what the lying shit for brains in Washington say.


you had me at 'lying shit for brains in Washington'

258 Thanks Bign... I have one of those already. Works well too.

259

Anyway, she was on Fox last night and was outraged, outraged I tell you, at a clip of a guy saying people should be paid the market value of their labor, and if they didn't like that, they were free to find another job.

Let the market sort it out, government interventionalists. "living wage" is a ridiculous concept anyways... most low end jobs are filled with young and inexperienced people. Anyone who is 50 working for $8 an hour did somethign wrong in life and has no one to blame but themselves. Want to make more than $8 an hour? Learn a skill and become more valuable to employers. Don't force other people to pay you more then your labor is worth.

260 @236, I Love that Felix, he is my idol!. I have a big bag of trix that has saved my butt multiple times. Thank you Felix!

261 Why isn't someone all up in the Bamsters face about this?

Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at November 23, 2012 10:13 AM (6YKrv)

Because 51% of of the voters are licking his balls to get free shit while only a small portion of them are paying any taxes.

262 Anyway, she was on Fox last night and was outraged, outraged I tell you, at a clip of a guy saying people should be paid the market value of their labor, and if they didn't like that, they were free to find another job.

OMG!  People with few valuable skills don't have very valuable labor!  TEH HORRORZ!!!!!

263 if the US ever is invaded, the people who are going to be hurt more are the guys like Donald Trump more than people like you and me.

I couldn't disagree more.  Trump will have the options and opportunities that wealth brings.  He can use his private jet to flee, or he can bribe those in power.  It's always the little guy who gets hit hardest. 

OTOH, Trump should be shot for his hair alone.

264 Why isn't someone all up in the Bamsters face about this? Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at November 23, 2012 10:13 AM

Because no one gets in Choom Boy's grille about anything. Not a single freekin' thing.

Must be nice to be livin' the phat life on the taxpayers' dough, without accountability or questions about his massive incompetence.

Affirmative action -- how the fuck does it work, anyway?

265 258 Thanks Bign... I have one of those already. Works well too. Posted by: sTevo at November 23, 2012 10:19 AM (vroT I remember trying to play one as a kid.....weren't they called "pump organs"?

266 Because 51% of of the voters are licking his balls to get free shit while only a small portion of them are paying any taxes.

Posted by: Vic at November 23, 2012 10:20 AM (YdQQY)

 

Bingo. I don't know if people see the things I see being young, living in a city, and having worked a lot of blue color jobs before i got my first "real job". For a lot of people April 15th is a PAY DAY! They get whatever they paid in back + earned income tax credit and end up getting their biggest check of the year.

And because our language has been so misapproprited by libs, cutting taxes = cutting a paycheck in the minds of many of those people.

267 Posted by: pep at November 23, 2012 10:21 AM (6TB1Z)

Hmm I suppose.  Perhaps then the tax should be based on only real property, since Trump can't take that with him when he flees.

268 And it always makes me laugh when liberals try to claim tax rates dont have a huge effect on behavior. Trust me, the "low information voters" are high enough information to know when it's time to cut back their hours, go under the table, or leave their shitty jobs. They know the exact cutoff for when they get bumped to a real tax bracket, or lose section 8, or whatever it is they are worried about. If the number is $35,000, they'll make $34,999 or less, guaranteed.

269 233 And another thing.... just how much do folks in retail think they SHOULD be making?! ---- Reminds me of my job working at a plant nursery in San Diego at 18. Made minimum wage, and a 50 cent commission on each $40 Christmas tree I sold. One day a customer was checking the irrigation systems and asked me to recommend someone to install them. My Cheneyesque recommendation was myself. Quit the job and became an irrigation install company, and made quite a bit of money over the next few years.

270 Our system is flawed but I'll take my chances on medical procedures here in the U.S. where at least I know there is some legal protection from major fuck ups. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 23, 2012 10:13 AM (piMMO) Unfortunately its the "legal protection" that jacks that price up

271 For a lot of people April 15th is a PAY DAY!

oh no, it's more like mid-February, when they get their refund direct deposited into their bank account

I always shudder when I encounter people who rely on "their taxes" in order to pay for routine household expenses, they are the ones who truly are dependent on the government

272 Let the market sort it out, government interventionalists. "living wage" is a ridiculous concept anyways... most low end jobs are filled with young and inexperienced people. Anyone who is 50 working for $8 an hour did somethign wrong in life and has no one to blame but themselves. Want to make more than $8 an hour? Learn a skill and become more valuable to employers. Don't force other people to pay you more then your labor is worth. **** THIS. It sounds cold, on the surface, but to anyone who listens to the logic, it is an undeniable fact. One may find themself in a desperate situation, willing to take any job, but if they are still making barely above minimum wage a year later, something is wrong. The experience and skills gained over a lifetime should prepare someone for, at the very least, a small wage increase on an occasional basis. Jobs such as those are NOT SUPPOSED to support a family of four. They are supposed to be a stepping stone to something better or a safety net when required. If someone choose to remain in a job where they make MW, year after year, then it is a lifestyle choice.

273 Want to make more than $8 an hour? Learn a skill and become more valuable to employers. Don't force other people to pay you more then your labor is worth. Posted by: Timin203 at November 23, 2012 10:19 AM

Gotta admit it: when I see the kind of bucks the liberals' sweeties pull down -- think Matt Lauer's $20 million-plus P.A. and Kirsten Powers' paycheck, which has to be pretty hefty, not to mention whatever Fox is paying Juan "the victim" Williams -- I wonder how actual pay equality would be received by the MFM and the Choom Boy League.

Yeah, it would be nice if low-end people were paid more, but if I were king that would come out of the money overpaid to spoiled, untalented liberal elites.

274 They know the exact cutoff for when they get bumped to a real tax bracket, or lose section 8, or whatever it is they are worried about. If the number is $35,000, they'll make $34,999 or less, guaranteed.

well sure, particularly when it's the welfare office bureaucrats themselves who point it out to the recipients what their ceiling is for earnings in order to keep getting benefits.

government turns citizens into clients

275 Unfortunately its the "legal protection" that jacks that price up ***** When the hell are we going to see reform? My cardiologist is brilliant and caring and never, ever, cuts short a visit with a patient. Yet, he no longer carries malpractice insurance. He just can't afford it. It would be a travesty to see him lose his practice if something went wrong.

276 Government is the magic chocolate fountain of all that is good in the world.

277 Bernanke Gives Congress a Stern Fiscal Cliff Warning

warning congress?  after how many years of the Dems cranking out money and spending?

278 sorry video at Townhall@

279 anyway hadn't the Obama administration with his boot licking media cohorts tell us things were getting financially better?

before the election?

yeah i know.

280 @ 259 and I quote..."anyone who is working at 50 for 8 dollars an hour did something wrong in life" You sir are an asshole. There is age discrimintion in this country. No one wants to hire a guy over 50 for health concerns. The insurance companies mandate this shit. I wil tell you how I know this. A friend of mine(over 50) told me he can't get a job. I applied with my resume...over 1000 jobs...I have a College degree, clean record, multiple patents, etc., etc. I could not get an interview! No call backs. I had to laugh and cry at the same time. I told him, If you are over 50, ad don't own your own company, you be fucked. I own my company so I don't give a shit, but if you are over 50 and do not own your own company the insurance companies require the employers shit on you! Why don'y you walk a mile in that guys shoes before being so fiesty?

281 Posted by: kawfytawk at November 23, 2012 10:10 AM (JWLqy)


Thanks for the reply!  I know that people come here from Canada now, because the teacher couple across the street host Canadian teachers each summer for medical procedures. Last summer it was a poor man delivered on a gurny who had been waiting in Canada for six months for back surgery.  His wait here? Three weeks. But that's all going to change, now.  I've read article after article that we need to 1) become a patient at a family practice/GP clinic as soon as possible OR get on a medical concierge patient list and 2) Begin to save for cash payment of medical services where we want immediate care or some choice.  All this 'health insurance for everyone' will do is create the same two-tier system of all socialized medical systems: the wait-clinic, and the cash'n'carry clinic for guess who - those who can afford it!  Which brings us right back to where we started.  Only now some horrendous percentage of health care costs will go to government.

282 Why don'y you walk a mile in that guys shoes before being so fiesty? Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at November 23, 2012 10:30 AM (6YKrv) ----- That reminds me, I was supposed to start walking a mile in my own shoes like a month ago. Oh my god, just the thought makes me tired.

283 Aussie, my daughter is in Brisbane attending uni on a student visa. She is required to pay up front for three years of health insurance. The two tier system is what makes it work for her, as she has used a private doctor when she is sick as she can get an appointment that day as opposed to waiting two weeks. I also like the pharmacy system that utilizes the pharmacist as someone who counsels for the right OTC meds as opposed to just counting out pills into a bottle.

284 that is when I found out that insurance companies were not giving private insurance to anyone who was even a slight risk, since in 2014 they will have to take everyone.

Posted by: Miss Marple at November 23, 2012 08:47 AM (GoIUi)

Not even remotely true. In fact, some of the big national carriers have actually relaxed their underwriting standards in an attempt to get as many people on the books before 2014, hoping they'll stay afterwards. They're playing for the subsidy market.

285 I have a home stereo amp that is still putting out. I think I got that thing when Reagan was President. It is a SONY. The only thing is that I no longer have a phono hooked up to it. But, I could in a few minutes. Still have lots of vinyl.

286 but if you are over 50 and do not own your own company the insurance companies require the employers shit on you!

Why don'y you walk a mile in that guys shoes before being so fiesty? Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at November 23, 2012 10:30 AM

It's not just the insurance companies. Business can hire up-and-coming "will work for experience" types to replace us experienced[/is]on-the-way-down (expensive) types and save themselves a shitload of moolah.

Twenty-seven years'-worth of experience and solid credentials don't mean shit these days. I'm a writer/photographer, but so is every friggin' geek with a spell-check-equipped computer and/or a cheap digital camera.

It has been 10 months since my last gig in my field. An avocation has brought in a few bucks, but I couldn't do Black Friday if I wanted to, much less pay ordinary living expenses.

One of my peeves about so-called "conservatives" is their knee-jerk "if you don't have a job, something is wrong with you" bullshit. Let them try being unemployed a 62 for a while before they go down that self-righteous path.

Some of Choom Boy's support comes from people like me who prefer eating to principles. I ain't there -- yet.

287 All this 'health insurance for everyone' will do is create the same two-tier system of all socialized medical systems: the wait-clinic, and the cash'n'carry clinic for guess who - those who can afford it! Which brings us right back to where we started. Only now some horrendous percentage of health care costs will go to government. Posted by: Pentangle at November 23, 2012 10:33 AM (6VI0X) Absolutely.....I mean we already see the emergency rooms filled with families with one member who has a sinus infection. My daughter is a paramedic and they know the drill. They will call for transport because they know they will get a bed immediately. They can game the system like nobody's business. Soon it will be a larger majority who will resort to do the same. Our family doc has huge student loans....but that is not the worst of it...she says she pays more in malpractice than she takes in....Obamacare will further decrease her payments...she ended up signing up with the local hospital to become an approved practice to help offset some costs. It will only get worse. She is seriously considering the cash and carry model in Costa Rica

288 Ooooh. HTML fail.

289 I wonder how many of these Black Friday bargain brawlers pay with the EBT card. Could explain a lot of the behavior

290 You sir are an asshole. There is age discrimintion in this country. No one wants to hire a guy over 50 for health concerns. The insurance companies mandate this shit. I wil tell you how I know this.

Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at November 23, 2012 10:30 AM (6YKrv)

 

Age discrimination? hahaha. No shit no one wants to hire a 50 year old for a low skill job. Who would? Make yourself valuable in the labor market and you will find work. Or should the rest of society have to subsidize a 50 year old and his health costs so that he can feel good about himself?

 

Sorry dude, reality is what it is.

291

And the older guys at my job are locked in to a better pay scale then us younger folks. Why? Because when they were hired, the labor market was more competitive, economy was growing. My company realized they could get cheaper younger labor as the economy got shitty and hired cheaper, young people... and we're all happy to have a job and get experience. No one bitches about the pay difference...

292 Make yourself valuable in the labor market and you will find work. Or should the rest of society have to subsidize a 50 year old and his health costs so that he can feel good about himself? by: Timin203 at November 23, 2012 10:44 AM (5WxMt) I am a 50 yr old who went back to school to make myself "valuable" There is STILL age discrimination.

293 Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at November 23, 2012 10:30 AM (6YKrv)

Why so polite?

Try my alternate answer:

"You're a pompous asshole without any sense of the realities of the job market in the United States.

Your ignorance of this exposes the truth; which is that you are a fool.

294 Kasich just tweeted a big fat "No!" to setting up an Obamacare exchange in Ohio.

295 Anyone who is 50 working for $8 an hour did somethign wrong in life and has no one to blame but themselves. Want to make more than $8 an hour? Learn a skill and become more valuable to employers. Don't force other people to pay you more then your labor is worth. Posted by: Timin203 at November 23, 2012 10:19 AM

Yes, I did something wrong. I chose to work for a major bank that closed our operations offices just as the shit hit the fan.

Some will say of those who collect funemployment; "work for minimum wage if you have to", then comes along someone who says "anyone over 50 working at minimum wage has only themselves to blame"

Christ, no wonder conservatives get a bad rap when they can point to someone saying that

296 No interviewer who is younger than you at a job interview is going to hire you. That is my experience. May as start your own business and be the boss if you are over 50 and looking for work. That is what I did.  The income swings are crazy making, but it can be done.

297 I am a 50 yr old who went back to school to make myself "valuable" There is STILL age discrimination.

Posted by: kawfytawk at November 23, 2012 10:48 AM (JWLqy)

 

Experience is way more important than degrees. There is no such thing as age discrimination, just HR departments who make smart moves. It costs more to insure a 50 year old than a 25 year old. 50 year olds are also more likely to take time off to deal with medical issues, their kids soccer games, or whatever the fuck.

So the total cost to employ a 50 year old is higher then the cost to employ a 25 year old. Unless you can show that you're worth the additional cost, why would a company voluntarily pay more money to someone who obviously isn't going to have the hunger for success that their 25 year old counterpart does (willing to work 14 hour days and weekends)?

Why do you think someone OWES you a job?

298 Yes, I did something wrong. I chose to work for a major bank that closed our operations offices just as the shit hit the fan.

Some will say of those who collect funemployment; "work for minimum wage if you have to", then comes along someone who says "anyone over 50 working at minimum wage has only themselves to blame"

Christ, no wonder conservatives get a bad rap when they can point to someone saying that

Posted by: kbdabear at November 23, 2012 10:50 AM (wwsoB)

 

We all make our choices in life. I'm not saying don't try to find a job, I'm saying don't blame employers for not wanting to hire you, and don't insult everyones intelligence by calling it age discrimination. Recognize it for it is... most companies don't want to invest the extra time and money training someone who is nearing retirement age and has higher expenses associated with them, and is less likely to be money hungry and willing to work OT, etc 

 

299 Why so polite? Try my alternate answer:  "You're a pompous asshole without any sense of the realities of the job market in the United States." Your ignorance of this exposes the truth; which is that you are a fool.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 23, 2012 10:49 AM

I don't know about JRB, but whatever politeness I can dredge up on this issue comes from the utter futility of ranting and raving about it. It'd be like arguing with Choom Boy; the guy tilts up his nose and continues to pump out his bullshit.

It all seems so simple when you're on the other end of the calendar!

300 Leave it to morons day after Thanksgiving to be consumed with self destruction.

If it's the matter of expense motivating the self determined termination, don't forfeit the life insurance benefits for surviving family by self inflicted bullet "bite". The devil's in the detail. I saw "medical tourism" mentioned above. Consider how many inexpensive non-refundable tickets are available for a slightly more creative yet isolated, solitary exit from mortality. 

Meanwhile, it's a glorious day to enjoy life with loved ones. Thank God for all blessings great and small.

Re: WA and Oregon States, Pick your crazy. Our daughter was in love with the Pacific Northwest, determined to relocate for work, and was thrilled last summer to be awarded an internship before her engineering senior year. One summer there cured her of illusions. There are great places to visit on vacation, /drop dead gorgeous/, that just aren't where you want to end up living year round because of the crazy people. Toto, there's no place like home.

...And God Bless Texas.

301 Posted by: kawfytawk at November 23, 2012 10:43 AM (JWLqy)

There is a small minority of physicians who do not take insurance. They will fill out insurance forms, but are not members of HMOs and PPOs etc.

They're overhead is so much lower because simply being a part of the medical machinery costs a huge amount in administration and float.

That is probably where the better physicians are going. Why pay 80% of your gross to fund a bloated bureaucracy?

302

If the economy was growing, there would be more of a labor market for older people... as it is, there are plenty of 23 year olds with college degrees willing to work the same jobs for less money, and willing to put in more time and work.

 

If you don't have any valuable skills / experience to differentiate you from them, the company would be out of their mind to hire you over them.

 

Sorry, that's economics.

303 You sir are an asshole. There is age discrimintion in this country. No one wants to hire a guy over 50 for health concerns. The insurance companies mandate this shit. ---- Hmm, I worked at a place that did it all the time and they were self insured, meaning they paid the bills out of their own pocket.

304 Hey I hate Obama care..My feeling is to each his own..Every one needs to do their own. My post was about insurance companies fucks and age discrimination, and no one here wants to address that. Oh yeah, pay the premiums on time, but when something happens its an endless fuck trip with the insurance companies! I'm Donald duck and I don't give a fuck, but when you don't want to hire the old folks..you just might as well put them out on a mountain to die. I'm old, am a CEO of my own company doing OK , But I'm just saying. I have guns, crates of ammo ammo and am on that brand new tranquilzer called "Fuckital". Tjis shit has to stop! I hate insurance companies..who were in the meetings, large and in charge for Obamacare, or didn't you Folks notice that?

305 I know more than a few middle aged people with a good work ethic who are in good shape, bust their asses, and don't have drug problems.

There are juiceboxers who start on Monday and complain that they weren't a VP by Friday. Then there are the ones who feel that the employer is supposed to bend to accommodate the personal schedules of the Justins and Dylans. Oh, and don't forget a large potion of their day is spent texting or updating their Twitter or Facebook pages.

306 Why do you think someone OWES you a job? Posted by: Timin203 at November 23, 2012 10:51 AM (5WxMt) I don't think someone OWES me a job...jerk! I chose to be a stay at home mom so YOU wouldn't pay for some incorrigible who has "latch-key" self esteem. Now that the economy has shit the bed and I never know what the future holds (friends have lost husbands to cancer etc) I decided I would FINALLY get my degree and find a job/career...but don't tell me there isn't age discrimination vs "smart decisions". I'd match my life experience up against any snot-nosed brat with a bachelors any day!

307 We're hiring. We're looking for a few good dicks. Please send your resume. You'd be a perfect fit!

Posted by: The Death Panel Commission at November 23, 2012 10:54 AM (vbh31)

I have a job. But whats your solution then? Force companies to hire older, more expensive employees? Or increase penalities for "age discrimination"? (which would have the effect of forcing companies to hire NO ONE who could ever claim age discrimination)

 

Whatever the answer is, I'm sure it involves more government intervention and market steering, because thats what we do in america

308 We're hiring. We're looking for a few good dicks. Please send your resume. You'd be a perfect fit!
Posted by: The Death Panel Commission

Yeah. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Leave it to the "evil robots" -- Typical friggin' CYA programmers.

Once upon a time, I was willing to be an organ donor. But no longer.

309 Hmm, I worked at a place that did it all the time and they were self insured, meaning they paid the bills out of their own pocket. **** I mentioned in a comment this morning that my self-insured employer started cleaning house, just this year, of all those with health issues. They tried to drive me out despite the fact that, in 18 years, I had probably worked fewer than a dozen 40 hour weeks and had most often used vacation days when I was sick. A 60 hour week was the norm for me. Unfortunately, when they started riding my ass, I worked even harder, despite doctor's orders, and ended up in the hospital. The company has never before behaved in such a way. How much does Obamacare have to do with it?

310 I'd match my life experience up against any snot-nosed brat with a bachelors any day! Posted by: kawfytawk at November 23, 2012 10:58 AM (JWLqy) ----- Do you say that in the interview, or do they just sense that there might be an underlying attitudinal problem. :-)

311 We're having an Obama Christmas.  Kids only asked for some new clothes.  Our annualized spending has been reduced by about 4%.  If the 1% cuts back its spending by 4%  then GDP is reduced by 2%.  Recession baby MIB.

312 Before we get into a flame war lets look at "conservative FoxB".  Jerry Willis was just arguing with a lady who was talking about how bad the "insider trading" laws were and some new huge non-case the SEC is pursuing.


Jerry Willis pops off with "but without these laws there would be no semblance of a level playing field for individual players in the stock market".  That shows you that she is either (a) Playing a non-serious role in a debate game or (b) She knows nothing about the stock market as it is ran now.


There is no level playing field and never has been one.  Furthermore, these big traders don't give a flying shit about a company.  All they want is a quick turn-around and they are betting that they can guess which way a stock will move in the short term.



As for the insider trading BS the SEC uses it as a club to punish people who are not the friends of the current Adm or someone who they need to offer up as a scapegoat like Martha Stewart.



Just about every federal agency up there now is eat up with corruption.

313 Now that the economy has shit the bed and I never know what the future holds (friends have lost husbands to cancer etc) I decided I would FINALLY get my degree and find a job/career...but don't tell me there isn't age discrimination vs "smart decisions".

I'd match my life experience up against any snot-nosed brat with a bachelors any day!

Posted by: kawfytawk at November 23, 2012 10:58 AM (JWLqy)

 

Its not discrimination, its rational decision making by the company. And sorry, but your bachelor degree probably wasn't a great investment. I'm sure you'll eventually find a job, and I don't mean anything personal by it, but it's not age discrimination to blame, it's the life choices you made (which weren't bad choices!) that put you in the position you are in right now, not some company who would rather hire a 25 year old over a 50 year old.

Just accept personal responsibility for your life decisions, accept that its more rational for a company to hire younger people, and do your best to knock it out of the ballpark in job interviews and not take a victim mentality and you'll be fine.

It just annoys me that people think they are OWED a job. Businesses don't exist to provide jobs...

314 Do you say that in the interview, or do they just sense that there might be an underlying attitudinal problem. :-) Posted by: IBT at November 23, 2012 11:02 AM (2t6Gz) I don't have an "attitude" problem but I'm also not blind to the fact that there is a discrimination problem either. And to say there isn't is complete BS. If you have plenty of "paid" job experience then it's not near as prevalent. But if you are new to the workforce at 50...it is there.

315 As for the issue with hiring people > 50 I am probably an oddity, but for reasons I can not get into I took an available early retirement package.


Within the "required time frame" by policy I had four contacts by management wanting me to come back as a "consultant".  I even had one track me down at a bar I used to hang out and bought me a double crown and tried to talk me into coming back.


I was also contacted by other companies who knew I was on the market. This despite the fact that by then I was already > 55.

316 We're having an Obama Christmas.... Posted by: sophistahick at November 23, 2012 11:02 AM

How? Maxing out your neighbors' credit cards? Inviting terrorists to dinner? Taking the private jet to Hawai'i?

I'd like to emulate Choom Boy for the holidays, too. Who wouldn't wanna live like the King of Free Shit?

317 Oh, and don't forget a large potion of their day is spent texting or updating their Twitter or Facebook pages.

I've seen a number of younger workers fired because of this.  They seemed to think the paycheck was an entitlement rather than a product of doing the job.

318 Posted by: Vic at November 23, 2012 11:06 AM (YdQQY)

If they come to your porch while you are drinking a good bourbon? 

Shoot them.

319 I don't have an "attitude" problem but I'm also not blind to the fact that there is a discrimination problem either. And to say there isn't is complete BS.

If you have plenty of "paid" job experience then it's not near as prevalent. But if you are new to the workforce at 50...it is there.

Posted by: kawfytawk at November 23, 2012 11:06 AM (JWLqy)

 

ITS NOT DISCRIMINATION! You are nowhere near as qualified as you should be at age 50 if you don't have mundane stuff like "paid job experience!" You are thus essentially an entry level employee, and you are in line with hundreds of 20 year olds who don't have a family to take care of, are willing to work harder and extra hours, and are at the job to gain experience and learn, not just a pay check AND ARE CHEAPER TO INSURE

 

320 There are juiceboxers who start on Monday and complain that they weren't a VP by Friday. Then there are the ones who feel that the employer is supposed to bend to accommodate the personal schedules of the Justins and Dylans. Oh, and don't forget a large potion of their day is spent texting or updating their Twitter or Facebook pages. **** My employer has been hiring in kids with virtually no experience at nearly $60k a year. The effect is that they think such jobs grow on trees and feel no compulsion to work their asses off to keep those jobs. Two of the prima donnas, with the company less than a year, were asked to move from cubicles on one end of the floor to cubicles on the other end of the floor, and raised hell about it. This, despite dozens of others moving their offices and cubicles as well. Instead of telling them that their jobs were at the new location and if they wanted to remain employed, to get their asses down to their new desks, their bosses threw a "thank you for your hard work" lunch for them to shut them the hell up. Another new hire is bitching to others that she only makes $58k, straight off the street, into an entry-level data-entry/analyst job. She is seldom at her desk, is unreliable as hell, and pulls the "aren't I cute" card at every opportunity. It's been an interesting little drama to watch.

321 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 23, 2012 11:08 AM (GsoHv)


LOL, when I left the company I told the VP I would not be interested in coming back unless my belly-button was sticking to my backbone.  That may come with 4 more years of Obama, but not yet so far.


And did you see my earlier post about 68 today?  There will be some rocking chair time here shortly.

322 If a company feels that my experience, maturity, loyalty, and work ethic isn't as cost effective as a kid with an entitlement attitude, then they can market to those brats instead of trying to get me to buy their shit.

As far as "knocking it out of the park", the interviewer usually decides whether or not to hire you about 30 seconds into the interview.  Once they see your age which you can not hide on your resume, they've already decided to tell you "we'll be interviewing more people and we'll let you know"

323 I was also contacted by other companies who knew I was on the market. This despite the fact that by then I was already > 55.

Posted by: Vic at November 23, 2012 11:06 AM (YdQQY)

 

Vic, right, because it's not age discrimination at all. It's that you had in demand and valuable skills and companies were willing to fight over you and compensate you well.

I'm sure though when you were inexperienced you had to work your way up the ladder to get to where you are now. We'd all love to be in your position, but it's not realistic for someone with no experience to expect that to happen.

324 Best interview answer ever, and moved me past the 2nd interview process, was hired that day even though the HR lady told me right off that they weren't hiring at that time but expected to be within a few months. "Describe your work ethic" Me, taking the BS up 2 notches - Well, every day I try and do what I think is more than my coworkers and more than is expected by an amount of equal or greater value to the company than they paid me for that day. Said with such spur of the moment sincerity that the HR lady almost teared up. Told me I had the job and took me out to introduce me to the foreman.

325 I'd like to emulate Choom Boy for the holidays, too.
That a was not my point.  We are going partial Galt.  We are only spending for what is needed.  The rest is being saved for the rainy days ahead(next 5-10 years are gonna be tough for those who aren't saving now.  Also the faster the economy burns, the faster we hit bottom and show to the libs what they have wrought.

326 324 If a company feels that my experience, maturity, loyalty, and work ethic isn't as cost effective as a kid with an entitlement attitude, then they can market to those brats instead of trying to get me to buy their shit.

As far as "knocking it out of the park", the interviewer usually decides whether or not to hire you about 30 seconds into the interview. Once they see your age which you can not hide on your resume, they've already decided to tell you "we'll be interviewing more people and we'll let you know"

Posted by: kbdabear at November 23, 2012 11:11 AM (wwsoB)

 

You are the one with the entitlement mentality. You said you have no work experience... how are they supposed to judge a work ethic? They'd be taking a big gamble.

Unfortunately, you are bringing nothing of value to the table. You expect them to give you a job because GODDAMIT I WANT A JOB and you are not proving to them why they should spend more money on you then on a younger, more trainable, more flexible (schedulewise) candidate.

They would be doing their shareholders a disservice to run their company as a non profit job machine instead of a profitable enterprise.

It's nothing personal, I'm sure your a nice person, and the interviewers feel bad for your situation in life. Again though, your choices led you here, not mine, not any companys, YOURS

327 "There is no level playing field and never has been one."

Posted by: Vic at November 23, 2012 11:02 AM (YdQQY)

The regulations that govern investment banking are unbelievable.

Just the disclosure requirements and the restrictions on contact between divisions adds $100,000,000s to the costs of the major banks and investment houses.

And yet congress, in its infinite wisdom believes that we need more regulation to create that mythical "level playing field." And the unelected bureaucrats at the SEC and FINRA and DOJ add even more complexity.

The bottom line is that no bank can follow the regulations: they are simply too complex and unclear. So if the Feds want to go after someone or something...they can.

The fact is: it is a market; and some people will win and some people will lose. it is impossible for everyone to make money.

328 Force companies to hire older, more expensive employees?

Yes.  Once you've bought into the notion of hiring quotas based on race, sex, whatever, every discriminated against group is entitled to fair treatment. 

If a company is forced to hire an incompetent minority to meet quotas, that's the same thing as hiring a "more expensive" employee, because they won't be as productive, in essence costing more.

329 new pervert thread up

330 #284  You can just stop the propaganda.  I went through 3 insurance companies,  including one we were covered with 5 years ago.  I have no health problems other than high blood pressure,  am taking the same three meds I was taking 5 years ago,  and could not get coverage.

I spoke to an agent and he said he was having a lot of people having the same problem.  And I even went through interviews with underwriters,  who cross-examined me like I was some sort of criminal.

So go to hell.

331
If a company is forced to hire an incompetent minority to meet quotas, that's the same thing as hiring a "more expensive" employee, because they won't be as productive, in essence costing more.

Posted by: @PurpAv at November 23, 2012 11:16 AM (rP/0q)

 

Right, well, how about we all stop bitching about how unfair life is, and just deal with it. Work your ass off, you will always be fine in life. It took me 2 years out of college to find a "real" job, but I hustled and supported myself and my girlfriend in the interim. Not only did I make myself much more employable with my experience in those two years, but I showed I was willing to work with my hands, and do whatever it took to get a job done.

Hiring quotas are absolutey unfair to the "out" groups (aka: young white guys) because we get displaced by less qualified people who only got the job because of a quota.

Oh, and guaranteed the companies will hire exactly the number of "protected"
 people they need and not one more, not because they're racist /sexist /bigots/ hate old people, but because they know that if someday, for any reason, they have to lay the person in the "protected" group off, they're going to have to fight against an expensive discrimination suit.

332 My BIL is 45 and trying to make a living selling security systems.  Some genius with an MBA decided that he would hire a bunch of kids at rock bottom wages because they have no expenses and live with their parents.  Sales immediately cratered, and my BIL sells more than about a dozen of them combined. 

Just because a company does this, doesn't mean it's smart.  Guess what, they'll go out of business.

333 Actually I would prefer to have more toll roads, not less. It is like a flat tax for road funding. Reduces the ability for the government to meddle with the "highway trust fund" Posted by: chemjeff at November 23, 2012 09:35 AM (d/5qf) Chemjeff, I take it you do not live in NJ, where we have toll roads, some of which were supposed to phase out tolls decades ago when they were 'paid off' and still we have taxes up the waazoo..oh, yeah PLUS we have a state lottery that is supposed to fund our schools..'cept they keep upping our property taxes to make up for the shortfalls. ANY tax is just an excuse for the gubmint to take more and more and tolls tend to hurt the poor most of all.

334 Just because a company does this, doesn't mean it's smart. Guess what, they'll go out of business.

Posted by: pep at November 23, 2012 11:21 AM (6TB1Z)

 

Then the market with correct itself. New thread.

 

335 I'm sure though when you were inexperienced you had to work your way up the ladder to get to where you are now.


LOL, where I am now is retired and about to go out on the porch t the rocking chair with a bottle of bourbon.


But you are right.  You have to make yourself valuable.  I was smart, I wasn't afraid of work, and in 30 years up until the last week I was there I had 1 sickday and was always on time or early.  

336 I get it now

Your work experience is no longer relevant, or not unique. Get the training

Get the training, but if you're over 50, sorry, there are juiceboxers who want the job who make our insurers happy

If you can't get hired, you collect unemployment, or have no other choice than to collect disability, then you're leeching off the rest of us and should be ashamed of yourselves

So stop thinking the world owes you a living if you're broke and frustrated, you're hashing the mellow of the rest of us. You're too expensive, so the best thing for those over 50 and unemployed or underemployed is to fuck off and die

If that's the prevailing attitude among the Republican party, I guess they're writing off a good portion of the old white males too

337 #328  My husband is working overseas for a foreign company who had no problem hiring him at age 61.  He CANNOT get a job herre in the US.

May you be unemployed at age 55, because then I will come to you,  even from beyond the grave, to laugh and point at your misfortune.

And conservatives wonder why Americans think they are hard-hearted skinflints.

Pffft.

338 Posted by: Vic at November 23, 2012 11:11 AM (YdQQY)

Stereo receivers drive you to your rocker?

339 30 Good analogy on Insty: Obama et al. are hailing Morsi as a legit partner because he sicced his dog on his neighbor but then later called him off. And now the dude's gone all Chavez. Obama's incompetence is epic. Posted by: Blacksheep at November 23, 2012 07:42 AM (bS6uW) That's because his/their incompetence with its spectacular, unanimous, and predictable results isn't, so much as maliciousness. Once one understands that, it isn't so epic. Once you see that for what it is

340 Strike that last line.

341 My condolences to anyone stuck doing Black Friday shopping. Unless you like that kinda thing, in which case, really? Turnout is a myth.

342 "I hate insurance companies.."
306. Judge Roy Bean

You are NOT alone. When a person's health hits the fan, after surgery, the insurance denies payments for care, postpones payments, while the hospital and doctors add duplicate charges for treatment you've paid but they refuse to acknowledge, and again charges for medical measures/treatment not even taken. You spend a DECADE fighting to get clear of costs you already legally should have been spared by "virtue" of the "best" health care policy. That was over a decade prior to universal in-affordable mal-care. So go figure how much worse off now that the government "decides" everything.

No matter which global region, no exception, politics are ALL centered on authoritarianism. And the US Taxpayer is placed at the bottom of the heap by our own government's politicians in office today. We US Taxpayers provide for everyone ELSE'S profits/losses globally, we US Taxpayers being THEIR INSURANCE backers, no thanks to the Federal Reserve and the US Congress, with nothing but DEBT to show for it in America. And our military already became the strong-arm of the global corporatists Eisenhower denounced, clearing the way for more global authoritarianism and profiteering by the bloody global corporates. It is too egregious. And our youth have no idea except for what they've been taught. Idea determines form. And where idea is lost or corrupted, darkness ensues.

As for age discrimination, no kidding. Young adults today HATE older people. Back in the day, we had been taught respect for our elders. So it isn't merely the corporate fear of health care costs being more risky hiring people over 50. It's personal. Agism is real.

The minority of Americans who refuse to participate in the cultural drugging in society have a different perspective than most people who actually WATCH AND LISTEN to commercials and READ AND BELIEVE "news" propaganda. Unwittingly or not, the majority of Americans have conditioned themselves biologically and psychologically to be dumb and dumber.

Remember the poster here who brandished: "I have no sympathy whatsoever for anyone who doesn't take their vaccine. They deserve to die." Stack that against the corrupted medical treatment system of mandates enforced by the all-powerful IRS. Twisted. Pity the person whose trust is violated by the medical system.

I intentionally pray for the American constitutional renaissance, the awakening of Americans to protect Liberty.

Band of Brothers

343 Hi all, its after midnight here, going beddie bye. Lots of opinions, lots of stuff to think about. Thanks! I don't have heath care. I own my own company and so far I can do. I like the old folks, my parents are very old and I will take of them. My wife's mama is old and I invited her into my home. Because of insurance companies, no one wants to employ or acquire the experience of the old folks due to liability. Actuary shit, yeah I get it. So be it. If you guys want to mess around with all sorts of logical fallacy's and straw man arguments about that then so be it. Thank the Lord I am a company. I hope all of you never get laid off after 50, because you are fucked! Form your own company and do something, that is your only hope. Nice reading the comments. Young folks saying, why should we hire old fucks to do what I can do? You can't do that sonny, you have no worthwhile world experience. Ya'all have good one.

344 Black Friday.........RAACIIST!!!

345 Stereo receivers drive you to your rocker?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 23, 2012 11:26 AM (GsoHv)

Not sure what you mean but no, weather does.

346 well, how about we all stop bitching about how unfair life is, and just deal with it. Work your ass off, you will always be fine in life.

Tell that to all the fired coal miners.  Tell it to all the loggers put out of work by spotted owls.  Tell it to all the out of work construction workers.

Sometimes the government fucks you over and its beyond your control.

This is why I prefer to work only in the underground economy anymore.  All cash, no taxes, nobody discriminates about anything.  If you can do what they want done, they pay you.

347 If you are sending out resumes in your field and getting no results you are either doing something wrong or your field is saturated. You are never unemployed. You work for yourself by renting your labor to others. Find some more creative way to market your time or find something else to do with your time that brings in money.

348 I'm saying don't blame employers for not wanting to hire you, and don't insult everyones intelligence by calling it age discrimination. Recognize it for it is...most companies don't want to invest the extra time and money training someone whois nearing retirement age ... Posted by: Timin203 at November 23, 2012 10:54 AM (5WxMt) You're FOS. My Dad worked as a job shopper (1099, no bennies) and there came a point where he simply couldn't get work because of his age. He was still sharp and had an excellent work history but was simply old. In time you may get a chance to take a bite out of the same reality shit-sandwich.

349 I've noticed a trend at Walmart -- they're hiring more older workers than say 5 years ago.  There's no lack of young ones out there, but its a struggle to get them to actually do the job, they whine a lot, and their attendance is unreliable.

The oldsters show up without cell phones, iPods, etc and Get'r Done.  Young workers only look cheap initially.  When TCO is considered, and older more experienced person can cost less.  They don't make as many mistakes and they don't try to pass off inefficient vigorous activity as actual progress, and they're always looking for a way to do the job easier and more efficiently.

350 Well folks, time for the old rockin chair. bbt.  May not get up in time for the news thread.

351 332 #284 You can just stop the propaganda. I went through 3 insurance companies, including one we were covered with 5 years ago. I have no health problems other than high blood pressure, am taking the same three meds I was taking 5 years ago, and could not get coverage.

I spoke to an agent and he said he was having a lot of people having the same problem. And I even went through interviews with underwriters, who cross-examined me like I was some sort of criminal.

So go to hell.

Hey, I just said that I had decades of experience at this, and offered to help. I posted that you might be suffering from a misconception, which I happen to personally know is a misconception because this is what I do (last week I had a 60YO client with diabetes and HBP, both managed with medication, approved a national carrier. It doesn't have to be a hard as you think it is if you get someone who knows where to look and which carrier has what standard), but whatever. You know better than I do and are determined to be the victim here. I don't care, be the damn victim, and BTW fuck the fuck off, asshole.

352

@119

 

I thought Boxing Day was a tradition from England in which the more fortunate boxed up their "used clothing material and other "stuff" and took it down to the church to be distributed to the less fortunate. Sort of like what a lot of us Yanks do with the Salvation Army and other local charities.

 

 

Nope. Traditionally it was a day when boxing matches were held as part of the Christmas ... er ... "winter holiday" ... celebrations.

353 The company that I used to work for, actually went through and asked people if they were older than 45 BEFORE they did the layoffs. They had quotas to make sure that they didn't lay off too many people over 45. I was out of work for 13 months after the tech bust. I'm sure this was partly my fault because I was in a supervisory position. Wound up in a crappy job when I ran out of unemployment and still haven't gotten anywhere close to what I used to make. I call it career deflation. Here's the deal about this and it has nothing to do with quotas to hire old people: we are talking about pushing up the age to retire and collect Social Security. I would think the success of that would depend upon people being able to work in a job until they are 67 or so. If that's not happening, then folks will game the system and go on disability, where the benefits are higher. They won't be eligible for Medicaid and I have no idea what Obamacare will do for those folks. There is going to be a huge impact on younger workers as a result. It might be helpful to consider the impact of changes like this.

354 210 aussie, Whoops! Confusion! I should clear this up now. I'm Australian too. It's just that just that I have enough people who are very important to me that live in America that I tend to think of it as "alternate home base". The UK too. These are not countries where I wish everybody well but it's ultimately got nothing to do with me.

"Amnesty International's advice, or Al Jazeera's, is useful only in that it tells us what people who hate us want us to do." meant first of all "us Australians" though also "us Westerners".