November 30, 2012
— Gabriel Malor Happy Friday.
The Obama Administration's opening salvo in the fiscal cliff negotiations was so unserious that Sen. McConnell actually laughed at Sec. Geithner when he presented it. McConnell later expanded on just why the proposal -- which included millions in tax hikes and millions in more stimulus spending (yes, more stimulus spending), but no actual spending cuts -- was so unacceptable:
Are the entitlement-eligibility changes his price for any deal? “There’s a nexus,” he says, “between my willingness to raise revenue and their willingness to make serious entitlement-eligibility reforms.” Does he worry that Republicans will be attacked for refusing to raise taxes on the rich without entitlement cuts? “They’ve talked about our reluctance to raise taxes on high-income people incessantly for a generation.”
Exactly. Making decisions based on whether the GOP is going to get blamed or not is stupid. Of course Democrats are going to blame the GOP no matter what happens and of course the lemmings in the media will do the same no matter what happens. Folks proposing that the GOP simply allow the Democrats to do whatever they want are kidding themselves if they think that GOP cooperation will not be viewed as GOP consent to Democratic failures.
That's a consequence of being in power. It would be another story if, as in 2009, the Democrats controlled the House as well as the Senate. But they do not. The GOP is sharing power; they will therefore share the blame.
More from McConnell:
The main point is that he wants to lock in entitlement changes right away. He wants to “do something other than set up some process where we promise to do something later and it doesn’t happen.” He worries setting up another commission to debate entitlements will give the “AARP and the unions a whole year to beat everybody up so we don’t ever get an outcome.” He emphasizes, “We ought to do it now, right now.”
This should sound familiar. It's the same thing Ace and Drew have been saying forever (well, at least until their more recent decisions to let the Democrats do what they want). The GOP can't just secure a promise from Obama to do something later in exchange for his tax hikes now. The two are linked and must remain linked. Any revenue deal must include spending cuts and a huge chunk of our spending problem is entitlements. But, as McConnell says, kicking the can down the road just gives Democrats more time to find ways to avoid serious cuts.
McConnell had more to say on Hewitt:
HH: Did [Geithner] outline what other taxes [Obama] wants to raise?MM: Yeah, you know, itÂ’s all on the usual poll-tested, oil and gas, raise the estate tax, thereÂ’s hardly anything they missed. It is a massive, whopping punch right in the nose to the American economy. I canÂ’t imagine the Democrats would support it. I mean, Max Baucus, the chairman of the Finance Committee, is certainly not going to support the estate tax proposal, Mary Landrieu, the Democrats from Louisiana, is not going to support the gas tax. Neither is Mark Begich of Alaska, completely unserious, and here we are witnessing the President running around the country thinking the campaign is not over yet. And theyÂ’re presenting laughable suggestions from the Secretary of the Treasury. He ought to be embarrassed to be asked to go up here and do something like that. ItÂ’s a serious blow to his credibility.
There's some other juicy stuff at the link.
The bottom line, of course, is that we're in a complete reversal of our usual roles right now. McConnell and other leaders in D.C. are trying to put the brakes on economy-killing "progressive" ideas . . . while conservative commentators are ready to give in and give socialism a try.
I'm still stunned by that. I understand being tired and a bit low after the election loss. I don't understand acceding to evil because of it.
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at
02:54 AM
| Comments (344)
Post contains 667 words, total size 4 kb.
http://is.gd/UdSq5F
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 02:58 AM (YdQQY)
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Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 02:58 AM (YdQQY)
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Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 02:58 AM (YdQQY)
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Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 02:59 AM (YdQQY)
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Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 02:59 AM (YdQQY)
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Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:00 AM (YdQQY)
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Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:00 AM (YdQQY)
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Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:00 AM (YdQQY)
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Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:01 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 03:01 AM (LhO8w)
Talking with My Mouth Full
Gail Simmons took an unusual and inspiring path to become a food writer and professional eater. From her youth in a culinary-savvy household to serving as a judge on television's Top Chef, this satisfying read chronicles the creation of a career that didn't exist when Simmons began pursuing her passions.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:01 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: OCD con at November 30, 2012 03:01 AM (K7W+A)
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:02 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 03:03 AM (LhO8w)
I do not buy that. Some want to LIB and some like me want to shut it down. I don't think any real conservatives want to give more "socialism" a try.
Note that we are already a fully socialist country. Obama wants to take us into full communism.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:05 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 03:05 AM (LhO8w)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 03:09 AM (3Y7RV)
Posted by: billypaintbrush at November 30, 2012 03:09 AM (qhyJx)
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 03:10 AM (doBIb)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 03:10 AM (3Y7RV)
As I said earlier, we got here because Obama jacked up spending to $4T/year with a $1.1T deficit. We didn't get here because of SS and medicare and we didn't get here because of taxes. The FIRST thing that needs to be done is restore the budget to pre-Obama levels.
Following that we can look at some of the more long term actions. For now ZERO taxes should be on the table.
Congressional response to the Dems and Obama should be eat shit and die, we will shut it down.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:11 AM (YdQQY)
The Dems don't seem to be willing to compromise very much, nor do any entitlement reform. And all they have to do is NOTHING and the cliff happens.
Posted by: GnuBreed at November 30, 2012 03:11 AM (ccXZP)
Posted by: Andy at November 30, 2012 03:12 AM (OZPoa)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 03:12 AM (LhO8w)
The problem is, the Dems were very good at allowing Bush to have his war, and then quickly swiveling to being supreme critics of that war and everything Bush did to prosecute it.
I don't, and I don't suppose anyone else is as confident of the Rs being able to pull off that kind of POLITICAL move, nevermind the question of whether they should.
Posted by: BurtTC at November 30, 2012 03:12 AM (BeSEI)
I do not buy that. Some want to LIB and some like me want to shut it down. I don't think any real conservatives want to give more "socialism" a try.
Vic, it WILL shut down. Then it will burn.
What can't go on forever, (FSA), won't.
Math is hard. Math is finite. You can funge a lot of crap.
But at the end of the day, 2 + 2 still = 4.
Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at November 30, 2012 03:14 AM (d0Dmj)
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:14 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Tsar Nicholas II at November 30, 2012 03:15 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 03:15 AM (3Y7RV)
Good morning, horde.
I seem to have caught a bit of whatever various M and Ms and suffering from; I was up all night hacking and now my throat feels like Satan slipped me a jalapeno and gasoline smoothie. So I apologize for the brevity of todayÂ’s story:
As you all know, Rock Hudson died of AIDS in 1985. By that time, of course, few people were surprised at the knowledge that the rugged star of Magnificent Obsession “putted from the rough,” as my old grandpa used to say. But of course, in the golden days of Hollywood, part of a movie journalist’s job was to keep a star’s less-than-wholesome enthusiasms off the record.
It so happened that Hudson found himself in Dallas in 1962 to promote his new movie, Spider Road and agreed to take some questions from the local press during a lunchtime appearance. In the middle of the Q-and-A, a young reporter who wasnÂ’t part of the Dallas-Fort Worth movie beat raised her hand.
“Mr. Hudson,”, she said, “I’ve got a very personal question for you. I hope it’s not too embarrassing and you may not want to answer it.” There was a strained silence and the movie reporters lowered their heads to stare into their salads. “I’ve heard this rumored for years,” the woman went on, “but there’s no way to know for sure unless I ask you.”
Hudson squared his jaw. “Go ahead.” Everyone in the room took a deep breath as the woman asked her question:
“Is it true that your teeth are capped?”
Hope you all have a wonderful weekend. See you on Monday.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 30, 2012 03:15 AM (zF6Iw)
Posted by: Schrödinger's cat [/i] at November 30, 2012 03:16 AM (feFL6)
Posted by: Mr pink at November 30, 2012 03:16 AM (eqyeV)
A dog and pony show at least has logic. Obama's proposal was a sick and useless joke.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:16 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Andy at November 30, 2012 03:16 AM (OZPoa)
Not at all. Unfortunately, we are ALL going to suffer.
Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at November 30, 2012 03:17 AM (d0Dmj)
Vote present.
Make the Dems own it.
Let it burn. Now.
Posted by: butch at November 30, 2012 03:18 AM (nK2Sx)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 03:18 AM (3Y7RV)
So, willl we get Obama strutting across the world stage for the next 50 years like Clinton?
What a couple of bullshit artist clowns
Posted by: billypaintbrush at November 30, 2012 07:09 AM (qhyJx)
I was thinking Carter without the work ethic.
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:10 AM (3Y7RV)
Nope. Think J. Wellington Wimpy without the work ethic.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 30, 2012 03:18 AM (zF6Iw)
They are likely neutron activated because of that proximity, therefore they will be hot, not to mention likely contaminated on the surface.
You understand the difference between activated metal and contamination right?
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:18 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 03:20 AM (LhO8w)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 03:20 AM (3Y7RV)
Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at November 30, 2012 03:20 AM (d0Dmj)
This is all you have to do to hammer this shit home:
This is fucking 2013's budget expenditures: $3.803 Trillion
This is fucking 2013's projected revenues : $2.902 Trillion
This is fucking 2013's projected deficit : $900 Billion
The Presidents "offer" would raise, best case scenario, $75 Billion.
So we take $900 - $75 = $825
So we would have a budget shortfall of $825 Billion after the President gets his pound of flesh.
And this is before he piles on new debt.
The President is a SCOAMF
The GOP is a useless pile of junk
The American people are stupid, lazy fuck heads.
LIB
Posted by: General Woundwort at November 30, 2012 03:20 AM (RrD4h)
Talk radio stinks in the early AM. My local conservative talker, Jeff Kuhner, is a ranter who talks out of his ass.
You on the North Shore, too, soothsayer? Yeah, WRKO is determined to drive the station into the ground. Kuhner's a braying idiot. BTW, Todd Feinberg and (I think) Michelle McPhee are now doing separate overnight shifts at WBZ after Dan Rea's show. I think they finally got rid of The Steve Lavellie Broadcast.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 30, 2012 03:21 AM (zF6Iw)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 03:23 AM (LhO8w)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:20 AM (3Y7RV)
Yes, you will get the minimum gov mandated GET. As for the metal look at it this way. You can remove contamination by wiping the surface of the metal down just like cleaning a dirty part. The metal itself though is still activated and will give off radiation. If you start grinding or any other action that removes metal flakes you will produce more contamination that becomes airborne and lose.
They will probably make you wear a respirator while working on those things if it has any of those things I was talking about. Being in a respirator for more than 10 or 15 minutes is torture.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:24 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 03:25 AM (3Y7RV)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 03:26 AM (XkWWK)
Remember this also, regardless of what the actual "budget" is. The deficits have run right at $1.1T every year since he took office. 2013 will not be any different.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:26 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 03:26 AM (3Y7RV)
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 03:28 AM (lbNG/)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:25 AM (3Y7RV)
The 10CFR20 Limit is 3 Rem/qtr and 5 Rem/year however they have something called ALARA, meaning as low as reasonable possible. (for people greater than 1
Most utilities limit people to 1 Rem/Qtr during outage work and much less than that during non-outages.
What is funny is that back in the early days I have picked up > 1 Rem in one containment entry in a few minutes.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:29 AM (YdQQY)
They proposed stimulus spending because Obama has a lot of donors to "thank".
Posted by: Marmo at November 30, 2012 03:30 AM (pcgW1)
Posted by: MikeinAmman at November 30, 2012 03:32 AM (ENczV)
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:33 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 03:33 AM (XkWWK)
http://gunssavelives.net/
They are aggregating news reports of guns used in self defense. (h/t Instapundit for linking them). One of the fun things to do is go from there to their links, then read the comments at the original sources.
Warms the heart, it does.
Posted by: GnuBreed at November 30, 2012 03:34 AM (ccXZP)
Posted by: Miss Marple at November 30, 2012 03:34 AM (GoIUi)
Don't forget the link I posted that Harry Pederast is a bringing a treaty to the floor that Oshit signed to give the UN control of how we treat disabled in this country.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:34 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 30, 2012 03:35 AM (jucos)
Posted by: MikeinAmman at November 30, 2012 03:35 AM (ENczV)
Everything changed. Look at it like a political 9-11
Posted by: typo dynamofo at November 30, 2012 03:36 AM (+VMZ0)
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:36 AM (YdQQY)
You want to know why the Let It Burn camp exists? Because in 2009, the Democrats controlled the House and the Senate and Republicans were still blamed for Every. Fucking. Thing. C'mon, Gabe, you know this. You damn well know that the MFM and the Democrats blamed Republicans for every single problem when there was not a damn thing the Republicans could do to stop it. You are acting as if the Republicans are dealing with rational actors who are not lying psychopaths. That is not the case.
Also, where the hell are you getting this idea that the Republicans have any power? Yes, the Republicans control the House. Yes, if the Constitution were being followed that means the Republicans have the power of the purse. When, precisely, was the last time a budget was passed? 1,100 days ago? 1,200? How many spending proposals have been sent to the Senate by the House? How many have ever seen the light of day on the Senate floor? The actual reality of power as is currently being exercised in DC is that the Republicans have none. Republicans do not have any power to stop what the Dems want to do. Obama and Reid will simple ram through Executive Orders and Reid will shove through continuing resolutions. There's nothing that can be done to stop that.
You know who has all the power? Math. And Math's a stone cold bitch who is going to burn it all to the ground no matter what. The roof is on fire. Let the motherfucker burn.
Posted by: alexthechick at November 30, 2012 03:36 AM (Gk3SS)
Posted by: SDN at November 30, 2012 03:37 AM (YTfNk)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 03:37 AM (3Y7RV)
Understood, but I guess my point is that it's ridiculously simple to puncture this bullshit and you have mealy mouthed clowns like McConnel offering weak tea.
SOMEONE ON OUR SIDE HAS GOT TO START KICKING OVER CHAIRS RIGHT ABOUT NOW!
But we get weak shit from our side.
That is weak shit from McConnell, so what he laughed Malor, he should have said loudly that Geitner is a tax-cheating clown, the President is a lazy useless piece of shit and we are not raising taxes, tax rates, fees, etc on jack squat- period.
We want an offer sheet that is entitlement and spending reductions ONLY!
Posted by: General Woundwort at November 30, 2012 03:37 AM (RrD4h)
Posted by: Deety loves SMOD at November 30, 2012 03:37 AM (QG3g9)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 03:38 AM (XkWWK)
Have to disagree AtC. While true Harry is not bringing a budget to the floor, but the House is letting him get away with it by passing CRs so that the old Obama budget remains in place.
All the House needs to do is refuse to pass the CR and tell them to shut it down. But they piss in their pants every time the MFM looks at them cross-eyed. Which means the Republican side of the House is always covered in piss.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:39 AM (YdQQY)
That was so stupid the rocks in my yard cried out 'those idiots!'
Posted by: GnuBreed at November 30, 2012 03:40 AM (ccXZP)
Posted by: dtih at November 30, 2012 03:40 AM (TpYxM)
All the House needs to do is refuse to pass the CR and tell them to shut it down.
Yes. Which is part of Let It Burn. Which I have just been told means I'm a socialist. Yeah. No.
Posted by: alexthechick at November 30, 2012 03:41 AM (Gk3SS)
Posted by: DangerGirl - feeling empty at November 30, 2012 03:41 AM (pEOD8)
No they do not. That is a myth the Dems like to push.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:42 AM (YdQQY)
Exactly right.
The GOP is going to get the blame no matter what.
No more continuing resolutions!
SHUT IT DOWN!
Posted by: General Woundwort at November 30, 2012 03:43 AM (RrD4h)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 03:43 AM (3Y7RV)
Posted by: alexthechick at November 30, 2012 07:41 AM (Gk3SS)
No that is not let it burn. The let it burn crowd wants to give them everything they want in an effort to completely collapse the country and go into chaos and revolution.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:44 AM (YdQQY)
Should have bought a Mac. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 03:44 AM (3Y7RV)
Posted by: Truman North at November 30, 2012 03:44 AM (I2LwF)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 03:44 AM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:46 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 03:48 AM (XkWWK)
Exactly. Do you really want your candidates in '14, and then your R nominee in '16 to be saying "I voted against the burning after I voted for it," as Lurch had to do in '04?
Does anybody really expect Rs to emerge from this mess without being blamed UNLESS THEY ARE LOUDLY AND REPEATEDLY AND CONSISTENTLY talking about opposing all the way up to and including during whatever burn might be coming? Even then it's about a 50/50 shot they'll be blamed, and the blame will stick in the minds of the mindless voters.
The burn may not be preventable, but I can't and won't sign onto it.
Posted by: BurtTC at November 30, 2012 03:49 AM (BeSEI)
Count me in the let it collapse and something better will come from the ashes camp.
I look at what this country has become over my lifetime and I don't like it, I don't like the trajectory we are on.
We have been sliding toward socialism for the last 60 years we have now lurched toward socialism and have had the SCOTUS put it's imprimatur on it.
This country is done.
Time for America 2.0.
Posted by: General Woundwort at November 30, 2012 03:49 AM (RrD4h)
Posted by: Museisluse at November 30, 2012 03:51 AM (SsWgR)
It really doesn't matter what we do. From what I have seen we get blamed for everything the Democrats do that screws up. (and that is everything)
But we should still do what is best for the country and forget about the MFM.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:51 AM (YdQQY)
Shut it Down -- No debt ceiling increase.
So Vic is right, if these are the definitions for the actions suggested. Part of the problem of these conversations is the lack of clear definitions of what exactly is being advocated.
This in large part is why I conducted a poll here last month, giving my view of what the definitions are. We all need to be on the same page at least regarding what the proposals entail.
Posted by: GnuBreed at November 30, 2012 03:51 AM (ccXZP)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 03:52 AM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:53 AM (YdQQY)
My version of "let it burn" just says that you let BCA kick in and then come back in 2013 with a clean sheet of paper to propose tax cuts, entitlement reform, etc. from the House. This isn't exactly giving socialism a whirl.
Andy, that's not really much of a "let it burn," is it? Come back in January and try and fix the Democrats' mess that will only have been in effect for mere days? Sounds a lot like "fight the Dems in January," not "give Dems what they want by voting present."
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 30, 2012 03:54 AM (NfIvb)
Posted by: Deety loves SMOD at November 30, 2012 03:54 AM (QG3g9)
Posted by: In Exile at November 30, 2012 03:54 AM (Eqqye)
Posted by: Andy at November 30, 2012 03:55 AM (OZPoa)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 03:56 AM (XkWWK)
Posted by: and irresolute at November 30, 2012 03:56 AM (DBH1h)
Do you really think the GOP establishments rushing out to offer concessions on taxes is doing what's good for the country?
It's a matter of sane policy proscriptions and principle.
It is unprincipled to offer tax hikes on a class of people simply because
you have bought into the 'fairness' canard of our enemy.
The money raised is a pittance and will make no discernible difference in
the budget shortfall.
I hate to say this but the Donks are acting in accordance with their principles and our side are unprincipled cowards.
The GOP is a useless pile of junk!
Posted by: General Woundwort at November 30, 2012 03:57 AM (RrD4h)
As long as he gets away with that he will control everything.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 03:57 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 03:58 AM (3Y7RV)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 03:58 AM (XkWWK)
When this LIB argument started after the election it started under the premise of "give him everything" and let it collapse and force them to eat it.
So the proposal is to fight later because fighting now is just too hard?
The "let it collapse" part is what bothers me. The self-destruct that you are talking about won't be a small bump in the road. The economic and social wasteland that the Give Up And Let It Burn folks are asking for will not simply evaporate like a mirage during the next GOP administration. It will have long-lasting effects on both national and personal economies. You are talking about screwing with people's lives on a long-term basis in order to win political points that may or may not be up for grabs later.
In addition to the economic deficiencies with that argument, we have a moral obligation to mitigate the Leftist distaster as much as possible. Most people do face difficult decisions when the price of gas goes up. Most people do not buy fancy electronics on a whim. Many people have to worry about paying for their children's education and their spouse's health care and their retirement and their taxes.
And by agreeing to Let It Burn, they are saying that these people are Shit Outta Luck and To Hell With Them.Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 30, 2012 03:58 AM (NfIvb)
Exactly right. If you want to define let it burn as fighting against what Obama and Reid want, fine. Let's do that, and accept any and all consequences of a government shutdown, fiscal cliff or whatever they want to call it.
But if your definition of "let it burn" is ok, let's give in and let them have what they want, then no, I'm not signing on.
Posted by: BurtTC at November 30, 2012 03:58 AM (BeSEI)
I got a lot of blow-back from people who again thought it was not the hill to die on. Well that is the card that Boner played and we not only died on his hill, our Party rotted and now stinks.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 04:00 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Jaimo at November 30, 2012 04:00 AM (9U1OG)
Posted by: In Exile at November 30, 2012 04:00 AM (Eqqye)
Posted by: DangerGirl - feeling empty at November 30, 2012 07:41 AM (pEOD
Going to have to get yourself an "appropriate" input device. A "gesture" pad of some sort. That will snuff a bunch of your anxiety. Oh, and just quit looking for the Start thingy and you will feel better right away. (lol!)
Posted by: and irresolute at November 30, 2012 04:02 AM (DBH1h)
The "let it collapse" part is what bothers me.
Don't misunderstand me, I am not part of the LIB camp. I have stated many times we should explore all opportunities include an Art V convention before going into revolution and anarchy.
I am in the House exercise some guts and defund them.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 04:02 AM (YdQQY)
Don't misunderstand me, I am not part of the LIB camp.
Oh, I know. I didn't mean to give that impression.
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 30, 2012 04:04 AM (NfIvb)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 04:04 AM (XkWWK)
http://poll.pollcode.com/9kph4q_result?v
There's lots of people in either the LIB and SID camps. If a clear proposal can be made for either, then we could organize a calling campaign to our House representatives, the only real power we here have to affect anything in DC.
Posted by: GnuBreed at November 30, 2012 04:05 AM (ccXZP)
Posted by: Truman North at November 30, 2012 04:05 AM (I2LwF)
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 04:06 AM (lbNG/)
Yep. The fuckers voted for this bullshit. Let 'em suffer.
Posted by: GMan at November 30, 2012 04:07 AM (sxq57)
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at November 30, 2012 04:07 AM (QXlbZ)
Let it burn has different meanings to different people.
My version of letting it burn is simply having the GOP just stop cooperating
and offer up principled positions from here on out.
No taxes will be raised period.
No new regulations will be passed.
No help in implementing Obamacare.
No nominee gets through any process.
In short no cooperation with the enemy and offer principled
policy proscriptions.
If that results in government paralysis or shutdown so be it.
This shit has got to stop and it has got to stop now.
It's more than likely too late to save the republic.
Posted by: General Woundwort at November 30, 2012 04:07 AM (RrD4h)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 04:08 AM (3Y7RV)
Posted by: Truman North at November 30, 2012 04:08 AM (I2LwF)
Posted by: blehzor at November 30, 2012 04:08 AM (s9K+V)
Posted by: and irresolute at November 30, 2012 04:09 AM (DBH1h)
Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at November 30, 2012 04:10 AM (jCQ+I)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 30, 2012 04:11 AM (v8RoL)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 04:12 AM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Andy at November 30, 2012 04:13 AM (OZPoa)
Posted by: alex of the banned IP address at November 30, 2012 04:14 AM (uFY4s)
C'mon now, at this point you're just phoning it in. Where's the incoherent Mary we all know and love?
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 30, 2012 04:14 AM (sbV1u)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 30, 2012 04:15 AM (M5nqD)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 04:15 AM (XkWWK)
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 04:16 AM (lbNG/)
Posted by: Schrödinger's cat [/i] at November 30, 2012 04:17 AM (feFL6)
While I'm in the let it burn camp, I am also in the It-Doesn't-Matter camp referred to above.
We are well over $16 TRILLION dollars in debt, adding a trillion more each year with no end in site. D.C. cannot even pretend to halt the spending.
Sooner or later math will toll the bell and it all will burn. I would rather it be sooner so my kids can have a chance in the future.
Fight, argue all you want. It doesn't matter.
Posted by: jj at November 30, 2012 04:17 AM (gWO5X)
Obstruct, hamper, harass and harry the enemy.
Cooperation is capitulation to fascism and statism!
Posted by: General Woundwort at November 30, 2012 04:17 AM (RrD4h)
Posted by: Deety loves SMOD at November 30, 2012 04:18 AM (QG3g9)
Gabe, you can't be so displaced from the math that you think this shitshow matters, really?
Your math is wrong because it treats entitlements as untouchable. Unless you are a Democrat, who actually thinks that they are untouchable, you have no excuse for buying that bullshit.
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 30, 2012 04:18 AM (NfIvb)
2012 was the 9-11 of politics
Thus ended the grand experiment. Forward to EuroSocialism
Posted by: typo dynamofo at November 30, 2012 04:18 AM (+VMZ0)
You are talking about screwing with people's lives on a long-term basis in order to win political points that may or may not be up for grabs later.
No, Gabe, I - and, I suspect, a number of the commenters are talking about "screwing with people's lives" to teach them a goddamn lesson. If you're too stupid to look beyond either side's pretty ponies and vote for the dog-eating retard because he's "cool" or "understands people like me," you're not worthy of even having a vote and you should get it in the shorts good and hard.
In addition to the economic deficiencies with that argument, we have a moral obligation to mitigate the Leftist distaster as much as possible.
I'm not my brother's keeper, as a certain coke-snorting Kenyan has proven.
Most people do face difficult decisions when the price of gas goes up. Most people do not buy fancy electronics on a whim. Many people have to worry about paying for their children's education and their spouse's health care and their retirement and their taxes.
And by agreeing to Let It Burn, they are saying that these people are Shit Outta Luck and To Hell With Them.
Yes. This x1000. You voted for Barky or stayed home because Mitt seemed slimy, then fuck you. Go bankrupt and die. I'm no longer pretending that O voters are my countrymen in any meaningful way other than that they occupy the same land mass.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 30, 2012 04:19 AM (zF6Iw)
1. Six or more plans.
2. A Val-U-Rite shortage after the second hour.
3. Bloodshed.
4. A football thread and cheerleader links.
5. Lots of cursing.
6. All of the above.
Posted by: GnuBreed at November 30, 2012 04:19 AM (ccXZP)
Posted by: Golan Globus at November 30, 2012 04:20 AM (/1U3u)
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 30, 2012 04:20 AM (ZSnCv)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 04:21 AM (XkWWK)
On what grounds? The majority want what the dems are selling. They voted for this. What possible reason do we have to stop them from getting what they asked for?
You still cling to the hope that there will be more rational people 2 years from now, 4 years from now, that will stop and take account of what just happened during TFG's reign. You are deluded if you think people will suddenly realize their grave mistake. The LiB strategy is a reset button, and the best possible option we have now "mitigate the Leftist disaster as much as possible".
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 04:22 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 30, 2012 04:23 AM (ZSnCv)
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 04:23 AM (lbNG/)
And apologies for the brusqueness - this cold is really nailing me and affecting my usual manic-depressive behavior more than usual.
I'm more in the "controlled burn" camp, I would guess, but I still want to see my idiot neighbors publicly crying about how they have to sell off their bone marrow to fill their gas tanks.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 30, 2012 04:23 AM (zF6Iw)
Posted by: jakeman at November 30, 2012 04:23 AM (96M6e)
Posted by: blehzor at November 30, 2012 04:23 AM (s9K+V)
Posted by: Andy at November 30, 2012 04:23 AM (OZPoa)
This X10000
Posted by: GMan at November 30, 2012 04:25 AM (sxq57)
Unfortunately, I expect Boner to weasel-out.
Posted by: Al at November 30, 2012 04:25 AM (V70Uh)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 30, 2012 04:27 AM (M5nqD)
Posted by: Fritz at November 30, 2012 04:27 AM (/ZZCn)
That is not what I said. What I said was now is not the time to introduce that into the debate. We know that will be a hard nut to crack and it has nothing to do with the problem we are facing now. So why are the Republicans even bringing it up?
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 04:28 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: DangerGirl - feeling empty at November 30, 2012 04:28 AM (HeCg1)
Posted by: Rob in Katy at November 30, 2012 04:29 AM (PiTBB)
We lost because the free shit army still turned out for Obama
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 04:29 AM (YdQQY)
Yes. This x1000. You voted for Barky or stayed home because Mitt seemed slimy, then fuck you. Go bankrupt and die. I'm no longer pretending that O voters are my countrymen in any meaningful way.
No. No x1000. You're proposing to screw everyone, not just Obama voters.
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 30, 2012 04:30 AM (NfIvb)
Posted by: Cobalt Shiva at November 30, 2012 04:31 AM (OY/SZ)
Posted by: Truman North at November 30, 2012 04:31 AM (1MEpe)
Posted by: Al at November 30, 2012 04:33 AM (V70Uh)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 30, 2012 04:33 AM (M5nqD)
Posted by: alex of the banned IP address at November 30, 2012 04:33 AM (uFY4s)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 30, 2012 04:34 AM (VtjlW)
>>alex of the banned IP address
What do you expect when you drink an entire box of wine and start taking swings at the hamsters!?
Posted by: garrett at November 30, 2012 04:35 AM (nfjVs)
Posted by: jakeman at November 30, 2012 04:36 AM (96M6e)
Don't you wish the Republicans had at least as much skill as anyone who has played hardball buying a car from a stacked deck dealership or better yet, an over priced house?
This game is no mystery. There are moves we could be making that look good to the public but just frustrate the crap out of the WH. I would love see one of these guys run some gambit that shows that they know how to do it. I'm not optimistic.
Posted by: SurferDoc at November 30, 2012 04:36 AM (6H6FZ)
Posted by: Y-not at November 30, 2012 04:37 AM (5H6zj)
Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at November 30, 2012 04:37 AM (V3kRK)
Posted by: Cobalt Shiva at November 30, 2012 04:37 AM (OY/SZ)
Note also that the Republican call for a cut in "entitlements" is not only bad politics, it is premature and not needed for the current mess.
As I said earlier, we got here because Obama jacked up spending to $4T/year with a $1.1T deficit. We didn't get here because of SS and medicare and we didn't get here because of taxes. The FIRST thing that needs to be done is restore the budget to pre-Obama levels.
Following that we can look at some of the more long term actions. For now ZERO taxes should be on the table.
Congressional response to the Dems and Obama should be eat shit and die, we will shut it down.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 04:37 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Truman North at November 30, 2012 04:38 AM (I2LwF)
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 04:38 AM (lbNG/)
Posted by: alex of the banned IP address at November 30, 2012 04:38 AM (uFY4s)
I think the FSA will be much smaller if they do not run another "magic negro".
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 04:38 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 08:04 AM (XkWWK)
Can somebody please write this in 10 foot high letters across the top of the blog?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 30, 2012 04:38 AM (GsoHv)
Posted by: blehzor at November 30, 2012 04:39 AM (s9K+V)
Posted by: Schrödinger's cat [/i] at November 30, 2012 04:40 AM (feFL6)
Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at November 30, 2012 04:41 AM (V3kRK)
Voter fraud isn't a problem. No, never.
And Republicans even continue to believe it isn't a problem. It may not be enough to sway 3 million votes to the other side, but it can affect individual districts----especially House or local candidates. So until it's addressed by both parties and naysayers, we'll probably have a liberal majority.
Posted by: Mo the Girl at November 30, 2012 04:41 AM (EWshu)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 30, 2012 04:42 AM (M5nqD)
Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2012 04:43 AM (3FXA5)
Posted by: alex of the banned IP address at November 30, 2012 04:45 AM (uFY4s)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 30, 2012 04:45 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 04:46 AM (XkWWK)
Posted by: SurferDoc at November 30, 2012 04:46 AM (6H6FZ)
Remember when Bitch McConnell coulda forced the Democrats to ram through Obamacare over Christmas, but didn't because he wanted to go home and sip egg nog with his family?
It's going to be more of the same. Bitch and Boner will kick the can again.
It doesn't have to be this way. They could be hammering Obama's 1st term promise to halve the deficit. They could demand he submit plans to do just that, reminding the public over and over again that this was HIS promise.
They could drag Erskin Bowles out and remind everyone Obama ignored the debt commissions recommendations.
They could offer to go back to Clinton era taxation in exchange for Clinton era spending. Everyone knows the Clinton years were perfect, right? What's he gonna say to that?
Or they could cut ads replaying the debate clip where Obama claims he will cut 3 dollars in spending for every one dollar in tax increases.
But they will do NONE of that. They will do nothing clever. They'll make a bunch of noise then agree to kick the can.
They let you down every single time.
This is all a waste of time. Let it burn.
Posted by: Warden at November 30, 2012 04:46 AM (0DlnM)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 30, 2012 04:47 AM (M5nqD)
Posted by: Tickled Pink at November 30, 2012 04:47 AM (E1Vkf)
It. Is. Coming. Count on it.
Posted by: Sukie Tawdry at November 30, 2012 04:47 AM (MPtFW)
There is little difference in the end between Let it Burn and Make it Burn.
Let it burn is giving them what they want, and letting it collapse of its own weight.
Make it burn is not cooperating and letting it collapse of its own weight.
Either way, this bitch is going down. That much has been obvious since HW Bush. People are just now waking up to that inconvenient truth.
Posted by: AZ Hi Desert at November 30, 2012 04:48 AM (8cJXl)
Posted by: Cobalt Shiva at November 30, 2012 04:48 AM (OY/SZ)
Posted by: Whatev at November 30, 2012 04:48 AM (2t6Gz)
I can't conjure up a *single* scenario in which the FSA gets smaller in our environment.
Maybe you can't shrink it, but you can defeat it. Offer one faction more at the expense of the others.
Our enemy is more or less barbarian hordes without the horseriding acumen. The way outnumbered civilized people keep them at bay is to play the barbarians off against each other.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 30, 2012 04:48 AM (FkKjr)
Posted by: Tickled Pink at November 30, 2012 04:48 AM (E1Vkf)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 08:04 AM (XkWWK)
Can somebody please write this in 10 foot high letters across the top of the blog?
How many years of your remaining life do you want to go about supporting the FSA?
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 04:48 AM (GQ8sn)
SS and Medicare changes will have to be phased in over a period of years. My solution for that would be that assuming we have a Party left in 2016 call for a program that broke down by ages to to completely phase both of them completely out.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 04:49 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: I lurk, therefore I am at November 30, 2012 04:51 AM (mepMv)
Actually as it turned out it wasn't even that. The final deal was a 30M cut in the requested increase that Obama wanted. There was no real cut in spending at all.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 04:51 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Whatev at November 30, 2012 04:51 AM (2t6Gz)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 30, 2012 04:52 AM (VtjlW)
You going on about "Crying boner" and such.
I left the "save the pain camp."
The fact is the media will not let the people hear our case and I am not sure our case can be made in the 15 seconds Free Shit Army can spare to listen.
It is going down, I'm preparing for the schism and I will vote with my feet.
Fact is the "we have a moral obligation to allow Free Shit Army to prevent economic growth and kill our freedom" ship has sailed and I am happy I am no longer on that boat.
Fuck the left they fucked us.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 04:52 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 04:52 AM (XkWWK)
Jean, you'd have to offset that savings though by those only wounded. They get free medical care on top of trial costs, free attorneys, court time, etc. We need better shooters.
What surprised me at the site was the sheer number of reported instances in just one month. Whole lotta stoppin' crime goin' on by citizens.
Posted by: GnuBreed at November 30, 2012 04:52 AM (ccXZP)
Posted by: realityman at November 30, 2012 04:52 AM (obXkJ)
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:53 AM (YdQQY)
==============
While I can sympathize with that line of thought we all know d*mn well that the JEF will NEVER be forced to "eat" anything so the whole idea is really just a pipe dream.
IMHO it is better to state a position, hold the line on that position, and let the chips fall where they may.
Posted by: Nighthawk at November 30, 2012 04:53 AM (RSqz2)
Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2012 04:53 AM (WnnBz)
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first [/i][/b] at November 30, 2012 04:54 AM (4df7R)
Oh they can "mention" it but it should not be part of what we are trying to negotiate now. It has nothing to do with the crap sandwich they are trying to eat now.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 04:55 AM (YdQQY)
No no Gabe says we must meet them at least at 10.50 an hour....
Fuck them you don't legislate your pay and if you walk off a job fire 'em and if need be kill the business.
We sit on 700+ years of coal, shale, and NG and we are not allowed to exploit it....
I hate the moontards.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 04:55 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 30, 2012 04:55 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: Thorvald at November 30, 2012 04:55 AM (1V6Pv)
Posted by: Lincolntf at November 30, 2012 04:56 AM (tkoGU)
Theeby allowing the media to blame the lack of unicorns on us giving the donks total control.
I have a better idea....wreck it and break it up.
Let the Blue devour their neighbors and not me.
Free Texas.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 04:56 AM (LRFds)
Our "economy" is a Pyramid Scheme. There is no "negotiation" currently taking place. There is NO "negotiation" taking place. They have to increase the debt by printing money to pay the loans. At some point the music is going to stop and only a handful will have chairs. It isn't a matter of whether YOU want to LIB or not. It doesn't matter what any GOP Congressman says or doesn't say. Sorry.
While we were working hard, paying our bills, paying our taxes and obeying the law both parties were busy drilling holes in the dam. The last four years they were being assisted by the FSA.
Posted by: Sgt. Fury at November 30, 2012 04:57 AM (wmR6i)
Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at November 30, 2012 04:57 AM (V3kRK)
Posted by: Ed Anger at November 30, 2012 04:57 AM (tOkJB)
Posted by: Cobalt Shiva at November 30, 2012 04:59 AM (OY/SZ)
Fruedian slip and I agree that SSDI is an issue but Vic the whole rotten corpse is a leech murdering us.
I meant what I wrote about R/R '12 being perhaps the only chance I had to free my son.
Free Shit Army voted no.
I vote "fuck them I will not chase the higher high anymore."
If we all crank down our standards of living we can smother free shit army.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 04:59 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: crisis du jour at November 30, 2012 04:59 AM (dTlz1)
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 08:48 AM (GQ8sn)
Oh yes, and while it all burns around you you are going to have backyard barbecues and movie nights and all sorts of fun stuff. Because it won't touch you and yours.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 30, 2012 04:59 AM (GsoHv)
"I'm still stunned by that. I understand being tired and a bit low after the election loss. I don't understand acceding to evil because of it."
This shouldn't stun you. Conservatives see what Republicans do not: the problem is the voters. It's not about protecting the electorate from the predations of the Democratic party. It's about letting the electorate feel the consequences of the choices they've made. Deferring tax increases on people who voted for all this "free shit" is insane.
I have no desire to shield the American people from the consequences of their decisions.
Posted by: Sam In VA at November 30, 2012 05:00 AM (rFiOs)
Amen, I am buying 5-11 acres and learning reloading hard.
Plan to set up a side business in Bio-Diesel as soon as I get south so I can run light industry.
Fuck them I would rather have freedom than an I-Phone for all by public writ.
Let it burn, I have work to do.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 05:01 AM (LRFds)
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Americans cut back on spending last month and saw no growth in their income, reflecting disruptions from Superstorm Sandy that could hold back economic growth in the final months of the year.
The Commerce Department said Friday that
consumer spending dropped 0.2 percent in October. That's down from an
increase of 0.8 percent in September and the weakest showing since May.
The government said work interruptions caused by the storm reduced wages
and salaries by about $18 billion at an annual rate. The storm affected
24 states, with the most severe damage in New York and New Jersey.
It's all Bush's Sandy's fault!
Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 30, 2012 05:01 AM (1Jaio)
Posted by: DaveA at November 30, 2012 05:01 AM (Xefrb)
Nope at best I will get to drink some sassafrass tea and play some Pnp RPG with my son waiting for the next day's work.
I'd rather do that than live near people who voted themselves 1/2 my wage.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 05:02 AM (LRFds)
Texas understands that workers are a natural resource.
Let the US have all the "fair."
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 05:02 AM (LRFds)
The only way to make the FSA feel the pain is to collapse the entire country and have the people who are paying for all the shit feel the pain as well.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 05:03 AM (YdQQY)
Let the Blue devour their neighbors and not me.
Free Texas.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 08:56 AM (LRFds)
I can almost guarantee that "Blue" will ally with "Foreign" to get back "Red"...
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 30, 2012 05:03 AM (FkKjr)
Fuck the left they fucked us."
Exactly right! Once we recognize that the ship has sailed there are a lot of things we can do to survive the shitstorm in relatively good shape and be prepared for what comes after that.
Posted by: SurferDoc at November 30, 2012 05:03 AM (6H6FZ)
Posted by: Whatev at November 30, 2012 05:03 AM (2t6Gz)
Posted by: art garfunkels ugly kid at November 30, 2012 05:03 AM (ZRoGl)
Posted by: Schrödinger's cat [/i] at November 30, 2012 05:03 AM (feFL6)
Without getting banned, there are only few ways I can phrase my answer.
1. There is no way to defeat, destroy, decimate, debilitate, decapitate them short of (banned content).
2. "Let it Burn" and/or "Burn it Down" is the best way to stop them.
3. The sad fact is that there is no 100% foolproof way to insulate ourselves from the burn. Some of us will be caught in the fire. I see it this way: I think it is far more humane for only some of us to be burned rather than all of us burn in the end.
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 05:04 AM (GQ8sn)
Theeby allowing the media to blame the lack of unicorns on us giving the donks total control.
I have a better idea....wreck it and break it up.
Let the Blue devour their neighbors and not me.
Free Texas.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 08:56 AM (LRFds)
==============
That would be the "let the chips fall where they may" part. I'm not kidding myself that my way will bring about a result any different from that of the LIB-ers it's just that I don't want to be complicit in the destruction.
Like many here I once took an oath to "...preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies foreign and domestic" and I really do not want to give in to those enemies now.
Posted by: Nighthawk at November 30, 2012 05:05 AM (RSqz2)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 30, 2012 05:05 AM (QupBk)
There's an app for that. I'd rather have that moral clarity than continue to let the fuckers do it slowly. Get it over with one way or the other.
I'm done.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 05:06 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: Closing Time at November 30, 2012 05:06 AM (i+P3N)
My understanding of LIB is let the country totally collapse into anarchy and revolution. It will not be 'some of us" it will be all of us. I would expect at the minimum 15% die off in the first 5 years.
That 15% of 350 million people and it will not be confined to the FSA.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 05:07 AM (YdQQY)
I took the same oath so did my wife.
We're kissing a corpse.
Peaches the CIA sexhound went native.
Our leadership pisses themselves blowjobbing the koran while Xianity is under assault globally.
No time to move on and exert my oath to saving as much of the founding as I can where I can.
Let the bodies hit the floor.
Free Texas and keep Locke alive.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 05:08 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: somebody else, not me at November 30, 2012 05:09 AM (nZvGM)
I have absolutely no illusions about what "Let it Burn" means. None.
I cannot justify helping prop up this leviathan with my hard work any longer. My vote no longer matters in the final tally, which means there is no realistic way for myself and others to correct the disaster of a course we're on. I'm prepared to accept my fate. It's either this or indentured servitude.
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 05:09 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at November 30, 2012 05:09 AM (V3kRK)
Posted by: Closing Time at November 30, 2012 05:09 AM (i+P3N)
Posted by: SurferDoc at November 30, 2012 05:09 AM (6H6FZ)
Vic did you notice the tab yesterday?
The brit NHS that donks masturbate too says that kids up to about 5 are not really kids.
15% are gonna die regardless I want Locke, Smith and Burke to live and I KNOW the staus quo doesn't give a shit.
The nation is done I have less in common with FSA than I do with some Chinese.
Save what we can.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 05:10 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 30, 2012 05:10 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 05:10 AM (3Y7RV)
Posted by: Museisluse at November 30, 2012 05:11 AM (SsWgR)
I'd point out that they already have jobs and don't need guns because "Shoot him pweez". PreDenounced squeeky voice to make the joke work.
Posted by: DaveA at November 30, 2012 05:11 AM (Xefrb)
That 15% of 350 million people and it will not be confined to the FSA.
What do you suggest we do? Go along with the FSA until we die of old age? I'm done with that. I don't see the FSA wising up and growing smaller over time, only larger.
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 05:12 AM (GQ8sn)
My position is you can't fight every battle in a war at the same time.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 05:13 AM (YdQQY)
soothsayer and Mary Poppins;
This little pug is another North Shore resident! Small world!
Oh, and like Carthage, the Dems must be destroyed. It'd be great to see just one Senator or Rep recite that after every speech, vote, or comment. I wonder how many people would ever get the reference.
Posted by: acethepug at November 30, 2012 05:13 AM (OQhDd)
Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at November 30, 2012 05:13 AM (V3kRK)
Like I said earlier, after Obama the FSA will not be turning out to vote so heavily unless they find another "magic negro" by 2016.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 05:14 AM (YdQQY)
Exactly. Our generation dies off the founding dies with it.
"Bannable content goes here'
and that's why after ceding 44+ years of Bill Ayers' story time to the youth of America or about 1/5th our history we forgot that the founding was over the notion that you can't tax .5% of people's wages give or take without their having a voice.
We're now at trillions of dollars of debt with choice because we allowed the lazy to insulate themselves from pain.
let it burn
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 05:15 AM (LRFds)
I took the same oath so did my wife.
[...]
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 09:08 AM (LRFds)
===============
Then I'm in good company.
You fight your way, I'll fight mine.
What's important is that none of us give up.
Posted by: Nighthawk at November 30, 2012 05:16 AM (RSqz2)
When working near BWRs during a a refueling outage (turbine deck, etc.), wear natural fiber clothing ONLY. Anything containing polyester or other synthetic materials will likely earn you a ticket for a session beneath the world's largest vacuum cleaner ("Sir, please hold your arms straight out." "How long will this last?" "Until the green light comes on." WHOOOOOM).
Posted by: mrp at November 30, 2012 05:16 AM (HjPtV)
Nah I think Ogabe uns again, Ogabe is Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton to the X power and goes around whipping them into a froth.
Vic the only correct solution to Obama's impact post office is found in the story of the Gracchi .
The Potomac is a river.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 05:17 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: SurferDoc at November 30, 2012 09:09 AM (6H6FZ)
It won't hit the FSA. It will hit the middle class twits who voted for Barry because of liberal social issues. The womyn who voted for Barry because of binders and Sandy Fuck's birth control. The douches who voted for him, against their own economic best interests, due to utter stupidity. The 20 somethings who voted for him, because I guess it was still hip to do so, who have no prospect of getting a job for years to come. They'll take the hit and probably blame the Republicans for it.
Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 30, 2012 05:17 AM (1Jaio)
Yup maybe.
Fuck them.
Their pussy is not more important than the economy and the damage the Obarka EPA does.
Grow the fuck up middle class.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 05:19 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: Walkers! at November 30, 2012 05:19 AM (TYO2p)
LOL, that is not just confined to BWRs. You should wear anything but cotton in any rad environment. Those synthetics will trap even naturally occurring gas from concrete walls
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 05:19 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: biancaneve at November 30, 2012 05:19 AM (6bYlh)
Vic, I thought you were smarter that this. If the last 4 years have taught me anything, it's that the FSA will fall for democrat bullshit 100% of the time, even with the evidence right in front of their noses. If they find things not to their liking after 2016, it will mean that the nasty Repubs were the ones holding them all back from six figure salaries and 3 month vacations. They will be told that the dems could have given them all that...except for those fucking Republicans getting in the way!
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 05:20 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 30, 2012 05:21 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: art garfunkels ugly kid at November 30, 2012 09:03 AM (ZRoGl)
Should have the meet-up at Doyle's, then.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 30, 2012 05:23 AM (zF6Iw)
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 09:14 AM (YdQQY)
Anybody want to take my bet that the Prez or VP candidate in 2016 will be Chief Spreading Bull?
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 30, 2012 05:26 AM (zF6Iw)
Well said Alex.
When Ryan was picked it clicked and I went all in, and the GOP itself rejected the posit that my grandkids yet unborn should not be doomed so the "poor" who are able bodied can be propped.
I have no book with making good the promises that people who had 25% of their wealth potential stole from the feds were given BUT I have huge problems with people who can work deciding that Fibromyalgia means they can get paid to play video games all day.
America proved to me once and for all it is not a serious nation now if indeed it ever was in my lifetime.
I will not be the FSA's wage slave anymore than I would have wanted our nation to remain George III's....
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 05:27 AM (LRFds)
I'm betting Core-ay Booker.
He gets the nod to run after the Senate it takes less than 2 years in that august body to be declared Jesus Christ returned.
Stir and repeat every 8 years 'til we are bankrupt.
Fuck this.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 05:28 AM (LRFds)
J.J. Sefton, thank you for the daily count down to the end of TFG.
I've been doing the same. Somehow it feels better knowing there is an end, if not in ready sight.
BTW, there is only about 124 billion seconds to go. See even that seems managable compared to the size of our debt and unfunded liabilities. It's only a tenth as big as our fixcal problem - wait, now I'm depressed.
If we pay down debt at $1.00/second for the next 400 years, we're all set. Not including interest of course.
Posted by: sophistahick at November 30, 2012 05:29 AM (UhXzR)
Posted by: Tickled Pink at November 30, 2012 05:30 AM (E1Vkf)
Enjoy your train rides to the re-education camps, you right-wing terrorists. I look down this page, and mixed in with the racist dog-whistles, I see conspiracy to commit, conspiracy to commit, and conspiracy to commit.
It's not "your" country any longer. It belongs to those you oppressed, stole from, discriminated against, and exploited. Time for you to live off the crumbs from the grown-ups' table the way women and minorities had to for all those decades.
Oh, wait, and you're the minority now too. Suck it, haters.
Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at November 30, 2012 05:30 AM (jCQ+I)
Posted by: sophistahick at November 30, 2012 05:32 AM (UhXzR)
Mary darling as the NVA said in the year of the horse.....
"we send enough of them home giftwrapped they'll stop coming.
The trains will carry you to your wageslave hell then to the IPAB ran Soylent factory.
Fuck you.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 05:33 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 30, 2012 05:33 AM (QupBk)
Posted by: eman at November 30, 2012 05:33 AM (57VGh)
Dems never do. They simple see it as pushing the Overton Window- See Healthcare, Clinton, Hillary
Posted by: typo dynamofo at November 30, 2012 05:34 AM (+VMZ0)
Posted by: eman at November 30, 2012 05:38 AM (57VGh)
Posted by: eman at November 30, 2012 05:41 AM (57VGh)
-----
Nope. My version is give Obama everything he wants. Name the legislation after him..... The Obama Fair Share Act.... I dont care.... Mitch and Boner gives speeches about how elections have consequences and that Obama deserves this. Make him own his policies. You and I and everyone here know his policies will crater spectacularly....
This is about changing paradigms.
If we go the route of half measures and kick the can down the road.... Its going to burn anyway.
Posted by: Post Tsarist Russian Expressive Dance Major at November 30, 2012 05:42 AM (nELVU)
Posted by: fixerupper at November 30, 2012 05:43 AM (nELVU)
Posted by: Insecto the Fucked at November 30, 2012 05:48 AM (Z5BDI)
Posted by: Barky Boo Boo Bait at November 30, 2012 05:50 AM (scLNg)
Posted by: eman at November 30, 2012 05:51 AM (57VGh)
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at November 30, 2012 05:55 AM (1hM1d)
Posted by: OhioCoastie at November 30, 2012 05:56 AM (iYJs3)
Posted by: eman at November 30, 2012 05:56 AM (57VGh)
Like you're not a hater? You invented snarling. I hope you like what you are going to get with Barky.
Posted by: Barky Boo Boo Bait at November 30, 2012 05:57 AM (scLNg)
Posted by: eman at November 30, 2012 05:59 AM (57VGh)
which included millions in tax hikes and millions in more stimulus spending
I think you meant billions not millions. The government doesn't use the term millions anymore.
Posted by: GreenEyeshade at November 30, 2012 06:01 AM (cf20q)
Posted by: blehzor at November 30, 2012 06:02 AM (s9K+V)
Posted by: Mob at November 30, 2012 06:05 AM (9DEGR)
Posted by: brian at November 30, 2012 06:09 AM (y05cf)
Posted by: notsothoreau at November 30, 2012 06:09 AM (uPhCY)
So, President Obama, if we raise taxes on those earning over $250,000, WHAT IS THE EXPECTED OUTCOME?
I cannot understand why no one is asking him this basic question.
Posted by: Miss Marple at November 30, 2012 06:09 AM (GoIUi)
Posted by: brian at November 30, 2012 06:13 AM (y05cf)
The real problem with the fiscal cliff issue is that the left isn't taking you seriously.
The question is, how do you teach them to respect you? corollary: How do you earn the respect of the American people?
This question is one that you haven't considered seriously and on an ongoing basis.
Except for the 'let it burn' thing, over the last few weeks, Ace has been getting close to the answer. ...at least, one of the answers.
There is a case to be made for 'let it burn,' but allowing the Dems to do what they want, when they want, isn't really part of the answer for conservatives. Under the most probable 'let it burn' scenarios, I think that conservatives and Republicans get burned along with the Dems and liberals. 'Ashes, ashes, we all fall down...'
It's too late to stop the collapse that's coming - 'going over the cliff' as it's often referred to. The math just doesn't add up any other way. To pay off the officially acknowledged debt, alone, would take every penny of our GDP for at least the next ten years. That's every penny that every American earns and every penny that government at all levels collects. The debt gets paid off in ten years, with every penny we earn, only if the government stops all spending right here, right now.
Paying off the 'unofficial' debt would take every penny every American earns for the next one hundred years or more. That's not going to happen. So, it's all going to 'burn' anyway.
There's a better way, but contemporary 'conservatives', especially SoCons, won't like it - and in view of recent evidence, probably won't go along with it. All this scenario will do is to mitigate the damages (death, war, destruction and other mayhem). That's all it can do. Nothing can stop the collapse that's coming. Liberty and freedom get a break in this scenario, but it won't be the nation you presently know and understand.
You won't be telling people what to do in their own bedrooms, for one thing. (indiviudually and as a group, we won't have time for it.) The war on drugs ends, for another. DHS and the TSA go away. US military bases round the world all but disappear, for another, etc. etc. The Dems won't be telling yu that you can't have a hamburger, a big gulp or a cigarette, among other things. Welfare, Social Security and food stamps disappear, etc. etc.
Not happening. Right?
So...it's all gong to burn, anyway. It's just a matter of whether it's a controlled burn or not. The controlled 'let it burn' scenario is what I call the Sampson in the temple option. You could also call it 'The Valley Forge" option, if you meant to completely restore The Constituion as a result.
All you can do is to mitigate the damage and set things up to rebuild something better from the ashes.
Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at November 30, 2012 06:13 AM (WwR1j)
yeah you know I think we covered the "vote pussy" position upthread...
what's coming has sweet fuck all to do with the imaginary theocracy you think we of any SoCon bent love and a lot to do with marxist wet dreams.
Gonna be a joy watching Luap Nor cult get the anarchy they want.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 06:24 AM (LRFds)
That is what Obama campaigned on. His "balanced" approach to solve our economic problems. If he is allowed to go ahead and it fails, that is direct and unimpeachable evidence that his policies were shit.
If Republicans fight Obama, they will be the obstructionsits and they (we) will own the result and the blame for whatever goes wrong.
This is not giving up in the long run. This is strategery for mid-term elections and beyond. When enough low-income voters are inconvenienced in their daily lives because they can't get more Obamaphones or they see less money on their EBT card, maybe then they will learn a lesson. Soon enough, seniors will find Medicare doctors few and far between as they start declining to see Medicare patients.
When this administration's policies start hurting people in a real and tangible way, maybe they will start to understand that elections have consequences and maybe they better pay attention a little more next time.
If not, then we are doomed to be the minority party for the foreseeable future.
Posted by: Marmo at November 30, 2012 06:31 AM (QW+AD)
Posted by: macbrooks at November 30, 2012 06:32 AM (Kcjfs)
Posted by: Chris Balsz at November 30, 2012 06:44 AM (3GtyG)
It's fantasy. It's fun to imagine the possibilities for how everything will backfire on the leftists when they get what they've sowed.
But the key thing is that we aren't actually running anything. If you actually put a random sample of us commentators into the House/Senate, we would be paying attention to the consequences outside what might give us satisfaction. (Cue media: Extreeeeeeeeme conservatives cause everything wrong with the world and kick puppy)
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 30, 2012 06:45 AM (xHaTb)
Posted by: Chris Balsz at November 30, 2012 06:47 AM (3GtyG)
Victory is determined by the brain dead, and as sad as that is, we need to recognize this.
Posted by: Todd W at November 30, 2012 06:47 AM (vVmp0)
Posted by: eman at November 30, 2012 06:47 AM (57VGh)
Anyone who believes there is a 'fiscal cliff' is an idiot. This same fantasy was passed around 4 years ago, but called TARP and Stimulus. STOP CALLING IS A FISCAL CLIFF. This is a media concocted lib scheme. The best thing the GOP can do is ignore them all and do nothing. Let the tax cuts expire and let spending cuts start.
At some point we need to call their bluff and get these clowns under control.
If you want to help the economy buy guns, ammo, and precious metals.
Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at November 30, 2012 06:56 AM (pDRpv)
I was listening to some of the Senate floor action yesterday (don't ask why) and Sanders from Vermont gets up, and say Social Security will be JUST FINE if we tax some of these wealthy Wall Street guys. The frightening thing is, Sanders BELIEVES THIS -- this isn't something he's saying for political gain, he is so clueless, so math impaired, he actually thinks this will work. THAT is the government now in charge.
To the Let It Burn crowd: my heart is with you and it is now also unavoidable, but go into this knowing it won't be conservatives who pick up the pieces. After a meltdown, when people get tired of the chaos, the most common pattern is for a dictator to rise, because at that point people want order more than anything else.
Time to get ready for the new dark ages and figure out where to build our monasteries to transmit our principles down through time.
Posted by: MaureenTheTemp at November 30, 2012 07:03 AM (DLUX7)
Posted by: SFGoth at November 30, 2012 07:03 AM (dZ756)
Posted by: OhioCoastie at November 30, 2012 07:13 AM (9GP0i)
Posted by: Minuteman at November 30, 2012 07:41 AM (qs9G3)
Posted by: Boomer Redneque knows Mohammad was a goat-fucking kiddie-raper at November 30, 2012 08:07 AM (eQnzo)
Posted by: Minuteman at November 30, 2012 08:11 AM (qs9G3)
------
The only reason "conservative commentators are ready to give in" is that they have no faith that the GOP will stick to principle. They have always caved, and the suspenseful build-up to the caving has led to us having clear fingerprints on fucking things up further (cf. automatic sequestration).
Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 30, 2012 08:18 AM (+WhyQ)
Posted by: Adc at November 30, 2012 11:47 AM (QRtGH)
Posted by: SDN at November 30, 2012 02:43 PM (YTfNk)
http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/28/af2011-now-thats-a-double-tap/
Posted by: CozMark at November 30, 2012 03:33 PM (6QN3y)
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Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 02:58 AM (YdQQY)