1

1st

 

2

what happened?

 

3 LOL I'm running late so Gabe is early.

Good Morning Morons.  Today is Friday, December 14, 2012.  On  this day in 1799 George Washington died at the age of 67.   Tourists today report a strange whine emanating from his tomb at Mount Vernon along with vibrations of the floor.

4 Medical device companies are getting ready for huge layoffs and other cost cutting as Obamacare stares at them over the horizon.  But I am sure the unemployment rate will go down again next month.

http://is.gd/NOZ014

5 Outrageous action by the EPA has  VA bringing them to court over storm water runoff.

The EPA contends that water itself can be regulated as a pollutant if there's too much of it.

Then the SOBs need to try regulate God but not to worry.  I have a feeling this will go all the way to the Supremes even if the EPA loses in the lower court.  They have an infinity supply of our money and printed money to litigate.  And if it goes to the Supremes it will probably be a tax.  The only way for this to stop is the the House to defund them and shut them down with no money if the Senate and Obama kills it.  What happened to individual funding bills that Boner ran on in 2010?

http://is.gd/cZG6OT

6 12 year old girl in wheelchair detained by TSA goons because she had “bomb residue” on her hands.  Bomb experts arrive and family is allowed to go with no explanation.  How do you explain incompetent assholes in TSA?


http://is.gd/uXu5Sa

7 CA judge says rape victimÂ’s body will prevent rape if she resists and gave light sentencing to the rapist.  He was publicly “admonished”

"In the commission's view, the judge's remarks reflected outdated, biased and insensitive views about sexual assault victims who do not `put up a fight.' Such comments cannot help but diminish public confidence and trust in the impartiality of the judiciary," wrote Lawrence J. Simi, the commission's chairman.


Why wasnÂ’t he defrocked and disbarred?  This man has no business in a court room.

http://is.gd/zySJNj

8 Most open administration since Nixon.  Clinton “may not testify” and State DepartmentÂ’s internal investigation of Benghazi will not be released to congress.

http://is.gd/3spJZv

9 DeMint likes Jenny Sanford as a replacement.  I am disappointed.  And I am sick of politicians forming family dynasties.

http://is.gd/9YU7OF

10 ACU sends out fundraising E-Mail detailing collaboration between Media Matters and the DOJ.  Hey, add all the alphabets to that list too.

http://is.gd/g5YSKe

11 House releases report that ObamaÂ’s NLRB (recess appointed) is a hotbed of union activism.  Another case of no shit Sherlock.  All you had to do was look at where they came from.  But maybe things will actually improve here.  Since they were illegal recess appointments their terms will expire Dec 31st. Obama will have to find new union lawyers to appoint or get these approved by congress which will NEVER (maybe) happen.

http://is.gd/VKQIjQ

12 Next up: medical meth dispensaries It won't end well

13

Birth control, day after pill, alcohol, marijuana, heroine, et al should be available OTC.  You want that in your body, go ahead.  Just don't ask me to pay for your lifestyle.  If you end up a whore or crackhead, it's all on you.

 

Once we tie consequenses to people's choices, they will make better choices.

 

So, yeh, I'm all in.

14 ACLU joins CAIR to sue St Louis over alleged discrimination of a Muzzie over “religious attire”.  So now they defend religion instead of constantly attacking it?  Well as long as its anti American it meets their needs.

http://is.gd/jCrW6M

15 VA looking at making “Card Check” unconstitutional in VA.  (It is already unconstitutional in the US).  Standby for some more goonism in VA.

http://is.gd/ibmsa1

16 Obummer and Boner meet again on cliff.  Why?  Because Boner is a pussy.

And when I see the sign that points one way
The lot we used to pass by every day
Just walk away Renee
You won't see me follow you back home
The empty sidewalks on my block are not the same
You're not to blame
From deep inside the tears I'm forced to cry
From deep inside the pain I chose to hide

Apologies to B. Calilli, T. Sansome, M. Brown and the Four Tops

http://is.gd/tFsO9S

17 DeMint says Heritage will audit the recent Presidential campaign to determine why we lost.

http://is.gd/hWRQ00

18 Kindle Daily Deals:

http://is.gd/iP0HzA

19 Word of the Day – Whippersnapper

http://is.gd/6jpUUT

20 Christmas Kitteh

http://is.gd/PMcA5T



And thatÂ’s it for today.  I will be leaving this morning for the weekend.  So no news Saturday or Sunday.

21 We here in Mexifornia are dodging bullets and felons as the state releases "not so bad" career criminals into the general population.
Now we could out source the bad guys to Haiti.
That would bring some money to the Haitians that Wiley Bill could only dream of providing.
Take a look at Haiti and Detroit, that's where we are being delivered to on the cattle car..Have a great weekend and keep your powder dry..

22 6. When I flew out of ohare before I had my duty holster in my seabag Of course the tsa swiped it and detected explosives (gun powder) Yeah, it was entertaining trying to explain why a holster belonging to a military cop would have gunpowder residue on it

23 >> LOL I'm running late so Gabe is early.

Get it together, Vic!  :-D

24 Good morning little lads: You have to see this video: http://tinyurl.com/cxfforw

25 Gov. Bobby Jindal's op-ed in the Wall Street Journal is going to get a lot of attention today, so we might as well start with that.


I think we covered that last Month(?) when the AMA first proposed it.  The Dems will probably be against it in their normal hypocrisy. Why?  Because then it will not be covered ny insurance and Fluke will once again have to pay for her rubbers or pills.

26 Aargh!! Burr.

27 " ... I am sick of politicians forming family dynasties."


It's what they do. Chalk it up to being butt-hurt after the election debacle, but I really see the powerful and influential in both parties as statists, united in their contempt for the rest of us, and determined to create a system where the great families rule as dynasties.

Screw it. Let it burn.

28 @13

Jindal may be the charter member of the Conservatatian party.

Melding the best parts of Conservatism and Libertarianism.


Do whatever the hell you want to do just don't expect me or anyone else to pay for it and if you ruin your life that's on you and if you break the law we will come down on you with the weight of a 1000 suns.

29 You know, it's called weed for a reason. Who gives a shit if it's legal when all you really need is a seed, some dirt, and a little patience. Oh right, lazy liberals need it legal first before they can force me to share my stash, right.

30 Thanks, NASA, for that invaluable public service. Nice to know that some portion of $18 billion of taxpayer money is being so prudently spent.

31 Thanks for the headlines Vic. I needed a little pick me up...sent the husband to ER after he woke me up at 4 to tell me he can't urinate. Oh and also admits hes been peeing nothing but blood for the last two days. I don't understand men, I really don't. On the bright side Obamacare hasn't fully kicked in so maybe they will only charge him one kidney for the torture I am sure they are inflicting on him about now.

32 Prayers for your hubby and you, Molly.

33 CA judge says rape victim’s body will prevent rape if she resists and gave light sentencing to the rapist. He was publicly “admonished” "In the commission's view, the judge's remarks reflected outdated, biased and insensitive views about sexual assault victims who do not `put up a fight.' Such comments cannot help but diminish public confidence and trust in the impartiality of the judiciary," wrote Lawrence J. Simi, the commission's chairman. Why wasn’t he defrocked and disbarred? This man has no business in a court room. http://is.gd/zySJNj Posted by: Vic at December 14, 2012 06:54 AM (YdQQY) Looks like we found who the Calif. GOP's next Senate nominee will be...

34 Jindal may be the charter member of the Conservatatian party.

Melding the best parts of Conservatism and Libertarianism.


I have seen some posts on here from folks in LA that say that may not always be the case.

35 DeMint likes Jenny Sanford as a replacement. I am disappointed. And I am sick of politicians forming family dynasties.


She's not family since she divorced his worthless ass after he acted like a teenager who just discovered porn after meeting that Argentinian whore.  Jenny has more money and brains than that ignorant fuck whose new wife is hopefully sleeping around on him and infecting him with incurably painful stds.

36 DAY 38 1,422 to go Mayans, Muzzies, Marxists, Maoists, Mau-Maus, MFM's, Moochelle, McCain's, MIRV's, mutants, malcontents, miscreants, menstruating mons veneri and miscellaneous meshugas notwithstanding.

37 Just came back from watching the first Hobbit film. Pretty good. I can see now why they are breaking it up into three 3-hr. films. It has, unlike LotR, some lighter moments, but that is consistent with the difference between he books. A few little liberties here and there did not detract from the overall narrative. Also, Sylvester McCoy was brilliant. I kept on wondering if there were ferrets hidden in his pants...

38 Posted by: Molly k. at December 14, 2012 07:05 AM (9Cfw6)


Sorry for your husband Molly K. I would say it is most likely something to do with the prostate. And men and doctors?  Most men hate doctors and visits there to. I thought it was just a passed down trait in my family on the male side, but I have noted it in a lot of other men.

39 She's not family since she divorced his worthless ass after he acted like a teenager who just discovered porn after meeting that Argentinian whore. Jenny has more money and brains than that ignorant fuck whose new wife is hopefully sleeping around on him and infecting him with incurably painful stds. Posted by: Captain Hate (more dagny and less curious) at December 14, 2012 07:10 AM (eRnBF) Well said Skipper, mornin rons.

40 19 Word of the Day – Whippersnapper Whippersnapper: Ejecta from the the weed whacker what's trimming my lawn.

41 Did anybody see any shooting stars last night?  I saw a couple before I got too cold and went to bed.  The ignorant fuck neighbors (Obama voters) have some dipshit light out back of their eyesore shanty (like somebody would want to boost anything from those deadbeat assholes) that kept me from seeing more I'm sure.

42 Yes, let's tailor or values and message so that's it's more palatable to people who will never vote for us. Brilliant!

43 The Left Banke

44 Meteor shower wasn''t it? Yep, saw a couple of dozen, pretty cool.

45

>>Do whatever the hell you want to do just don't expect me or anyone else to pay for it and if you ruin your life that's on you

 

While I support this view, I can easily see not so far ahead to Libs/Dems passing laws where we will in fact pay for it. And they'd win on that plank readily.

46 It doesn't matter how we tailor our message.  Has any Republican in the mainstream EVER ran on a platform that advocated eliminating birth control other than the so-called morning after  pill that can be administered 7 weeks after?


Has any Republican in the last 100 years ran on an openly racist platform?


No, but the Dems ran on that and their enablers in the lying MFM helped them.

47

 >>You know, it's called weed for a reason. Who gives a shit if it's legal when all you really need is a seed, some dirt, and a little patience

 

Ought to be legal. That will bring back the family farm like nobody's business.

48 The key to victory: Don't alienate voters who will never vote for you. This is so crazy it just might work. Some people would suggest we improve our party's brand by highlighting the differences between parties. But yeah, it makes more sense to become more like Obama because he wins elections!

49 Ought to be legal. That will bring back the family farm like nobody's business. Posted by: uterus cannon at December 14, 2012 07:23 AM (3ZtZW) This here is the story of the wildwood flower.............

50 Ought to be legal. That will bring back the family farm like nobody's business.

Posted by: uterus cannon at December 14, 2012 07:23 AM (3ZtZW)

I think it should be legal but make no mistake, it will not draw any taxes and it will not make more work for farm type people.  People will grow it in pots on their porches.

51 Second, as a practical matter, there is simply no reason, medical or moral, that oral contraceptives should require a doctors visit.

Stroke, clotting disorders, hypertension...no, no medical reasons why any woman (or young man who wants to grow breasts) should consult a physician before loading up their bodies with artificial hormones...good grief.  Are you planning on making your fortune suing the makers of pills?

But as a PRACTICAL matter, if you want to use your HSA dollars on birth control, you'll need a prescription. Hail Obama!

52 They burned and they dug and they dug and they burned and they killed all our cute little weeds then they drove away. We just smiled and waved, sitten there on that sack of seeds.

53 Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 14, 2012 07:24 AM (3Y7RV)


He was about have crazy, I had to fly up and get him down.

54 half!

55

Good morning, ‘rons and ‘ronettes.  TGIF and thanks for the news, Gabe and Vic.

 

If you were around yesterday morning, you saw me and J.J. Sefton trading some Hollywood stories.  So IÂ’m just going to throw a couple of quick ones out now, and perhaps heÂ’ll be kind enough to chime in with one or two of his own:

 

 

In addition to his other foibles, Charlie Chaplin was an atheist (although, at one time, he did want to play Christ in a film of His life and death).  One day he was lounging with Mary Pickford and Douglas Fairbanks at Pickfair, their lavish Beverly Hills estate, when the talk turned to religion.  As you can imagine, the hosts and guest sharply disagreed on the matter of religion.  Chaplin decided to show the two the folly of belief; fully clothed, he jumped into the swimming pool, shouting, “If there is a God, let Him save me!”  The comic was gasping and going down for the third time when Fairbanks, also completely clothed, dived in to save him.  Pickford, meanwhile, was running around the pool yelling “Let the heathen drown!”

 

 

Then, of course, thereÂ’s the famous story about Harry Cohn, the crude, nasty head of Columbia Studios and the writer Herman Mankiewicz, famous for pissing off directors and producers: 

 

 

A friend of MankÂ’s had managed to get him a place at Columbia.  “And for GodÂ’s sake, Mank,” he pleaded, “keep your trap shut, do your job and collect your money.”  So, for a few weeks, the writer beavered on in anonymity.  Came the day, though, that he was ordered to sit at CohnÂ’s table during lunch.  Cohn, always probing and exploiting other peopleÂ’s weaknesses, needled Mank to a dreadful extent, but the writer kept his calm.

 

 

Finally, Cohn left off and began talking about movies.  He bitched about Orson Welles and all of the other “message kids.”  People, he pronounced, just wanted a good, simple movie.  So, one of the others at the table asked, how do you know what a good, simple movie is?

 

 

“Easy,” Cohn snorted.  “I watch it.  And if I can sit there without my ass itching, itÂ’s a good movie.”

 

 

That was a cue line Mank couldnÂ’t resist.  “Imagine that,” he drawled,  “the whole world wired to Harry CohnÂ’s ass!”

 

 

Then he got up from the table, collected his check and left Columbia.

 

 

Hope you all have a wonderful day.

56 Take a trip and never leave the farm.

57 I don't know about tayloring our message to the liking of the 47% but I sure as Hell hope anyone running for public office at last develops some answers to gotcha questions about abortion that reflect events and science of the second half of the 20th Century. Those two stupid bastards handed the enemy a stick to beat us with in a presidential election year. They should have their balls bitten off by rabid weasels.

58 I think it should be legal but make no mistake, it will not draw any taxes and it will not make more work for farm type people. People will grow it in pots on their porches.

Regulate it like beer.  You can make X amount at home for personal consumption, but if you want to sell it, it will be taxed to shit and its distribution micromanaged.

And no Sunday sales, or sales after 9 p.m., or whatever other unreasonable restrictions your state places on beer.

59 They should have their balls bitten off by rabid weasels. Posted by: SurferDoc at December 14, 2012 07:28 AM (6H6FZ) Wouldn't that be a little cruel to the weasels?

60

 >>think it should be legal but make no mistake, it will not draw any taxes and it will not make more work for farm type people. People will grow it in pots on their porches.

 

Subsidies for grow lights! And, yes, I know - part of the funny is that "family farm" gets defined down to a couple of trellis boxes.

61 OSP why pieces?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyQi-1Z2tN8

62 ugg, not a good version

63 The Conservative movements priority is to increase the signal to noise ratio.

Taking certain things off the table that create a lot of noise that allows the Donks and the MSM to frame and push certain narratives will help us in the long run.


It also is part and parcel to that rugged individualism I hear people on our side go on about.

The individual should be given wide latitude in the choices they make and concomitant to that, the results of those choices.

Now if those choices result in deleterious effects then that's on them and we can win that fight I believe.

64 The Democrats have us blindfolded and running in circles. Here we are, facing a debt crisis, a spending crisis, and on the cusp of a deep recession. And one of the leading potential GOP '16 candidates is talking about birth control. The Democrats must be laughing their asses off. They're leading the GOP around by the nose, going wherever the Democrats want them to go. The Democrats control ALL the debates in this country. All they have to do is say "immigration" and the GOP hops to and scrambles to put out the imaginary fire.

65 GW, we already lost that fight.  The 51% who voted for Obama aren't going to pay the deleterious effects of their choices, we productive members of society are.

66 OSP why pieces? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyQi-1Z2tN8 Posted by: Vic at December 14, 2012 07:32 AM (YdQQY) I giggle every time I hear it. My favorite radio show, Rick Jacksons Sunday morning Country hall of fame sometimes has funny songs. He plays it.

67 But the word contra-ceptives is misleading today. What we have today are pills that rid the body afterception.. or after the baby is created. If you want the pill that destroys the egg prior to fertilization to be over the counter? I have no problem with that, as long as they have the same warnings that tobacco packs have in big letters. Once the egg is fertilized I take a different view. Do we value human life from conception to death, or do we decide what is a valuable life worth preserving based on the needs of society?

68 Molly, prayers for you and husband.  And have a safe trip, Vic.

69 Second, as a practical matter, there is simply no reason, medical or moral, that oral contraceptives should require a doctors visit.


No.   No.   A billion trillion zillion times no.   How many times do I have to point out that for certain people, say, to pick someone at random, me, oral contraceptives will kill me dead.   Dead.   Kill.   No longer living.   Part of the zombies when the ZA comes.   I'm dead, Jim.    Guess what?   Without a doctor explaining that, hey, you have every single one of the contraindications for taking The Pill so don't do that, I probably would have taken The Pill and then stroked out or had a heart attack. 


Oral hormonal contraceptives have the capacity to cause tremendous health problems.   Hell fucking yes women, especially 18 year olds who think they are immortal, should be told by an actual doctor what they are.   Note that by actual doctor I don't mean those lying fucks at Planned Parenthood.  


I have been on Team Jindal for years but this is perpetuating an absolutely idiotic belief that The Pill has, at most, minimal side effects and it's no big deal.   Is Jindal going to support blanket immunity for pharmacies and pharmacists when, not if, but when, young women start keeling over?   How about 20 years down the line when those same women are having problems conceiving a child and they discover that The Pill isn't a chicklet?   How about then?   Oral contraceptives really are serious business and should be treated as such. 


Don't even get me started on the way that Plan B is treated like no big deal.   I fully expect a huge wave of litigation in 10-15 years when the girls who used it repeatedly because hey it's over the counter so it's safe turn out to be barren.   But but but I could buy it off the shelf!   No one told me there are long term risks!   Why do you hate women!


*stompys all over everything*

70 That NASA video is exactly how the brokest nation ever should be spending my tax dollars. Fuckers.

71 @64

Very true, very true but until Zombie Reagan comes along and captures the imagination of an increasingly ignorant public we have to deal with the hand we have dealt ourselves unfortunately.

The media and the Donks control the narrative, have controlled it for the last forever.

Why does Nixon get more blame and shit for Vietnam than Kennedy and Johnson?

72 All those birth control hormones are continuously recycled into our tap water untreated

73 Jindal doesn't make the needle on my Give-A-Shit meter move from zero. When a supposed Top Republican starts yammering about birth control instead of getting into real issues, it's a big, fat yawn calculated to appeal to the chattering classes.

Same with anything relating to Jim De Mint. When he walks out of the Senate, he is a non-person as far as I'm concerned. Think tanks are every bit as important to me as, say, Tepid Air and NRO, which is to say not at all.

Meanwhile, Choom Boy keeps racking up the damage score. But we don't wanna talk about that, oh no. Far better to compromise and worry about the small shit.

74 Re: contraception, HeatherRadish is right--there ARE risks with taking hormones to deceive your body into thinking it is pregnant--one can reasonably argue that these risks are acceptable as a practical matter, but litigation (as mentioned above) is the major stumbling block since the current environment fosters the mentality that if anything bad ever happens to a patient, it MUST be the doctor's/drug manufacturer's/pharmacist's fault--and not simply a complication or bad side effect, both of which are unavoidable in some cases.

75

>>>The Conservative movements priority is to increase the signal to noise ratio.

 

The best Conservatives go into business or do something worthwhile with their lives, rather than waste it in politics getting migraines and doing backroom deals with reprobates. We need to recruit the best and ask them to consider making that sacrifice for the good of the Country.

 

Other than that, there needs to be clear messaging as to what the Republican/Conservative 'brand' is about from leadership. Since they don't know, Plan B is to run them out.

 

And what is that messaging? We are for maximizing the Liberty of the Individual as opposed to maximizing the profits of think-alike groups at the expense of their fellow citizens. Simple. Taxes are a sideshow that we've been reduced to.

76 55 Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 14, 2012 07:28 AM (zF6Iw) Mornin' Mary and all. A postscript to Harry Cohn, who was indeed the most hated man in Hollywood. When he died, there was a huge crowd of mourners, or perhaps better stated would be "attendees," at his funeral. Among them were Orson Welles and Billy Wilder. Welles turned to Wilder, amazed at the turnout, "Billy I can't believe how many people are here." Wilder simply replied, "Well, give the people what they want..." Cheers!

77 Headline at Lucianne: US to deploy 400 troops and 2 Patriot batteries to Turkey in the coming weeks

78 I will agree with legalizing every drug on the planet, as long as it doesn't cost me a dime of my tax money when an individual is mentally or physically screwed, and, when you hurt someone while under the influence the penalty is so heinous that you wouldn't even think about it.

79 ACLU joins with the Muzzies?  Why, it's almost as if they are not against religion in the public square at all, but instead against anything and everything that represents the PATRIARCHY in American society. 

As are most atheists, they're not anti-religion, they are anti-Christianity. 

80 In 2006 the Democrats made a huge deal about torture. Remember that? The funny thing was that nobody in the country cared about "harsh interrogation" techniques. But that didn't stop the Republicans from being scared shit of the issue, so much so they even came out against torture used by the Bush admin, which wasn't even occurring. Republicans were running around chasing shadows and the Democrats won big in 2006. The Democrats did such a good job creating this political third-rail mirage, John McCain and others concocted a bill of rights for Al Qaeda in order to make sure the voters didn't think he was in favor of torture.

81 Headline at Lucianne: US to deploy 400 troops and 2 Patriot batteries to Turkey in the coming weeks Posted by: zeera at December 14, 2012 07:43 AM (3dXwx) Didn't they used to call this sending "Advisors"?

82 yeah.....go ahead and make bc over the counter......women already suffer strokes on the stuff....bloat up ....clot up.....but whatever gabe.....

83 Preezy Choomer says enforcement of federal marijuana laws against users of weed in states where it is legal is not a top priority of his Administration

Reality - Harold and Kumar... get ready to toss some salad for Bubba and his friends in the federal "pound you in the ass" prison when the feds bust you for having any pot in your possession

84 I don't disagree with the NASA video, but I do find it funny how they pick and choose the myths they debunk when the find the science just does not hold up....you know like man made global warming. I suppose it is not easy to be all snarky when your funding depends on poor and adulterated science.

85 yeah.....go ahead and make bc over the counter......women already suffer strokes on the stuff....bloat up ....clot up.....but whatever gabe..... Posted by: phoenixgirl at December 14, 2012 07:43 AM (GVxQo) I didn't understand what that stuff did to women until I got married. When we were done having kids I got snipped, problem solved.

86 69 -

Maybe  Jindal loves life so much, he wants a few dead teenagers so he can save all those possibly potential babies that would have otherwise not formed. 

87 72 All those birth control hormones are continuously recycled into our tap water untreated

Posted by: DAve at December 14, 2012 07:41 AM (XDC0v)

Prison Counsellor: Why do you say you feel "trapped" in a man's body?
"Trapped" Convict: Well, sometimes I get them menstrual cramps real hard.

88 Maybe Jindal loves life so much, he wants a few dead teenagers so he can save all those possibly potential babies that would have otherwise not formed. Posted by: BurtTC at December 14, 2012 07:47 AM (BeSEI) Isn't that like the 45th trimester or something?

89 But but but I could buy it off the shelf! No one told me there are long term risks! Why do you hate women!

And if I'm going to the shore this weekend, and thinking about doing it with anything with a pecker, I should probably double up on these bad boys so I don't get an STD too!!!!

90 "be in favor of this sort of thing because it will make the GOP look less like the mutant-creep-Akin party. Second, as a practical matter, there is simply no reason, medical or moral, that oral contraceptives should require a doctors visit."
**

Bend over backwards to prove you're not Akin? pfft, as if that would matter to critics bent on rejecting whatever for their own agenda's mobilization.

"Oral contraceptives" come in all sorts of abortive chemicals. Eh, "simply no reason, medical or moral, to require a physician's exam? Consider the expectant-mother who waited for the gestating baby to reach 2nd-3rd term growth before determining independently to end the pregnancy on her own. With all the hype about "mother's health" bear in mind the dangers of hemorrhaging, not to mention killing the growing baby.

Even if skipping the physician's exam, the female should at least know/admit whether she's already pregnant before aborting the egg/fetus prematurely. Why would the drive-through pharmacies of America provide for the expenses of regulated pregnancy testing prior to selling contraceptives over the counter with the Skittles?

Jindal and Malor are presently too timid to cut to the chase and offer free sterilization to females who'd rather not get pregnant, and really don't want to be a mother with all the responsibilities to raise another human being. Eugenics for hedonists, and you as well, since once anything gets started, sooner or later, it applies to all the grunts. (Laws never apply to the lawmakers so long as they march in goose step).

Just NOT at tax-payer expense! oops ...  too late given Obama's BigBrother owning your body "for" you, with all the best intentions and trial pharmaceuticals and mandated procedures at your expense, of course, whether you like it or not. Lump it.

Rationalizing Republicans, not to be outdone by liberal-socialists (can't lick 'em, join 'em):  Well, since "It's the law of the land" then "affordable healthcare" may as well do X,Y&Z while BigBro's at it. So cough up and take your inoculations, and forfeit your organs and fetus-babies to whom/what BigBro decided where they're needed  MOST, patriot. Otherwise, you don't cross GO, you do go bankrupt and stay in jail indefinitely.

2013 is going to be a very happy new year...just not for you or me. Before you know it, male babies might not get circumcised but females will, while both will get castrated if they don't belong to the PC elitist clique. Nip unwanted population in the bud without killing the birthed babies to see how compassionately conservative Republicans and Democrats can share values through BigBro Uncle Sam Care (not to be confused with the Good Samaritan from days gone by).

Nah, things could never get THAT bad...

91 OTOH, while Gabe does simplify things somewhat, the risk of serious complications from birth control is in the ballpark of the risks associated with Tylenol--which kills about 500 people a year and sends about 100x as many to the ER for overdose treatment.  I don't know that I've ever seen a reliable figure for deaths in the US that can be attributed directly to oral contraceptives--I'm certain it's greater than 0, though most likely less than 500.

92 Third world countries let you walk into a pharmacy and buy drugs without a prescription. I get Paracetamol when I can. I once asked for Lariam when I overstayed in a Malaria area and they gave me Valium. That turned out badly. No. Oral contraceptives without prescription could be very harmful. Plus, since everyone will have health insurance under SCOAMTTcare, why not get a doctor's care?

93 Again we have to deal with the realities of the world we are inhabiting while I completely agree with what soothie is saying about being led around by the nose by the Donks and the media, we have to fine tune and re-invigorate our message if we are going to remain a national party and not a regional one.

In order for us to be able to reverse the course of the last 30 years we need the House, The Senate and the Presidency to be in conservative or at the least in conservativeish hands.

How do we do that on the present course with the current message?

Barring that we need the 30 Republican governors to band together to form a bloc and fight the federal power center.

94 Posted by: Conservative Crank, in work purgatory at December 14, 2012 07:50 AM (FqcJu) I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you on that. Individuals with certain medical conditions such as a history of liver tumors or liver disease, diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, breast cancer, reproductive cancer, or blood clotting may not be prescribed certain birth control methods. Some of the side effects that are otherwise commonly experienced as a result of oestrogen and progesterone birth control use include: Nausea, vomiting, constipation, or bloating Irregular menstruation and spotting Breast swelling or tenderness Decreased libido Weight gain or loss of appetite Mood swings, anxiety, nervousness or depression Changes in vaginal discharge and vaginal infections Headaches, dizziness and fatigue High blood pressure and cholesterol Acne or permanent discolouration of the face Fluid retention Bone density loss Hair loss or changes in hair growth Enlarged ovarian follicles So you see, they don't kill you but they they give you problems when combined with other things can.

95 Jindal doesn't make the needle on my Give-A-Shit meter move from zero. When a supposed Top Republican starts yammering about birth control instead of getting into real issues, it's a big, fat yawn calculated to appeal to the chattering classes.

Same with anything relating to Jim De Mint. When he walks out of the Senate, he is a non-person as far as I'm concerned. Think tanks are every bit as important to me as, say, Tepid Air and NRO, which is to say not at all.

Meanwhile, Choom Boy keeps racking up the damage score. But we don't wanna talk about that, oh no. Far better to compromise and worry about the small shit.

Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at December 14, 2012 07:41 AM (yKUrR)

 

This.  Now, I might be placed somewhat in the so-con camp, as I do believe that the overall "health" of a nation is directly tied to what the Romans called virtu, but at this particular time, with our particular set of fiscal problems, to address any other issue - unless it is done obliquely and with an eye to solving our monetary obligations - marks one, IMO, as a fundamentally unserious man.

 

It says a lot - and nothing good - about this country when the commenters at a Smart Military Blog Featuring Christina Henricks' Boobehs (TM) can stand up to the Left better than their supposed "representatives."

96 So you see, they don't kill you but they they give you problems when combined with other things can.


Don't worry, they got a pill for that too!

97 Oh yeah, and let's not forget Birth Control pills potential links to other things like, Eye problems or vision impairment Gallbladder disease and gallstones Embolism Resistance to Insulin Immune system suppression Heart attack Stroke Breast tumors and liver tumors Ectopic Pregnancies Links with certain cancers such as cervical cancer Blood clots in legs, lungs, heart and brain Jaundice

98 NASA is so confident the world isn't going toend on December 21, that they put together a video gloating about it and debunking the various permutations of the Mayan calendar myth. Sorry, but I'd put more stock in the Mayan calendar if they could have predicted their own demise. I look at their prediction the same way as I look at Miss Cleo and other "fortune tellers": If you can predict the future, cough up the next lotto numbers. Then we can talk.

99 NASA is so confident the world isn't going toend on December 21, that they put together a video gloating about it and debunking the various permutations of the Mayan calendar myth.

NASA will come out with a humorous video debunking AGW, the day after North America is covered by the next ice age.

100 NASA is so confident the world isn't going toend on December 21, that they put together a video gloating about it and debunking the various permutations of the Mayan calendar myth. "Son, I remember all the way back when NASA had spaceships. Did you know we actually flew to outerspace." "Really Grandpa? We went to space?"

101 These are drugs for females. They aren't smart enough to make their own decisions about cost/benefit. Research with google is hard. They need the government and medical establishment to make those decisions for them, for their own good!

102 Re: contraceptives kill some people It sucks but all otc meds kill some people. Aspirin used correctly kills a fair amount of people. My uncle has hemochromatosis, a Flintstone vitamin will kill him eventually a.d a can of tuna would kill my allergic husband quickly. The fact that some people can't tolerate a substance is not a goid reason to make other adults get a prescription. Teens of course should see a doctor first and adults should be advised to check tgeir bp before starting birth control but enough with telling me I have to go the doctor before I, an adult, should be allowed to take my own chances.

103 ...a reliable figure for deaths in the US that can be attributed directly to oral contraceptives--I'm certain it's greater than 0, though most likely less than 500.

Posted by: Conservative Crank, in work purgatory at December 14, 2012 07:50 AM


It is quite insidious stuff. There will be millions of deaths in the future from complications of the pill. Cancer, cardiomyopothy and other heart conditions, liver and kidney problems. The list is endless. When you screw with hormones you screw with the entire body besides the targeted effect.
Just inform people that for the benefit of screwing without a rubber and a possible pregnancy they will most likely suffer grossly in their older years.

104 97 -

Sure, sure, but Gabe was talking about MEDICAL problems.  That there looks like a list of financial problems.

At least they do  for many lawyers. 

105 Maybe all these political illuminaries and experts are right. Let's become Just The Tip Democrats. Maybe we'll win a few elections. Just The Tip/Maybe A Little More 2016

106 "In other drug news, President Obama says enforcement of federal marijuana laws against users of weed in states where it is legal is not a "top priority" of his Administration. Sure, but he said the same thing about medical marijuana four years ago and AG Holder just spent those four years raiding and shutting down dispensaries." Actually, Obama has been incredibly tolerant. Here in CO, his "hands off" approach has allowed over a thousand new marijuana retail businesses to get off the ground. Contrary to what you posted, no dispensaries have been raided here, but the ones within 1000 feet of schools had to move because of the Drug Free Schools Act, which isn't entirely inappropriate.

107 "This man has no business in a court room." Since not one story that I can find is mentioning it, I'm betting that he's a D appointee.

108 And i hate typing on a phone.

109 Like Obama, there are a lot of people who feign being non-smokers, even to themselves, making them the most pernicious type of liars (the fool lies to himself).

Smoking plus oral contraceptives are a gamble not worth taking, though try to pry cigarettes from the bitter clingers who chain smoke, whether on contraceptives or while pregnant. Now the tobacco industry blames the deaths from strokes or clots on the pharmaceutical industry which blames the deaths on the tobacco industry, the monkey chased the weasel all around the mulberry bush.

Since BigBro Uncle Sam decided to blame all health woes on the tobacco industry (no virgin), the pharmaceuticals (far wealthier with global clout in world affairs) pursue their god status demanding to be worshiped by the lowly humans who consume according to advertising propaganda. Fresh meat, easy pickings.

110

As a physician, I second what the moronettes above have said.  There are plenty of medical reasons why birth control pills shouldn't be OTC, heck Plan B shouldn't be either.  As others have said, high blood pressure, strokes etc. are more common than people believe and about 30% of women who start the pill end up stopping it because of the various (sometimes serious) side effects.  In my practice, most women seem to have been on the pill at some point in their lives, very few seem to have taken it for more than 5 years.

 

From a moral standpoint, Gabe, imagine coming home and finding your 14-year old has a pack of these in her schoolbag.  Wanna have that conversation?

111 I saw the results of some of those "over-the-counter" Valiums in one of the third world countries in Asia first hand.


A young sailor was brought back to the ship in a 100 man P-boat in convulsions after taking a 500 mg Valium and drinking.  We had to manhandle him up over the rail onto the ladder platform in 8 foot swells.


He died in sickbay.  One wonders what the Captain wrote his parents? 


I'm sorry, your son was stupid.

112 the party is dead when our candidate(s) are going to run on birth control.....what does birth control have to do with being the president? maybe we can rehash the rape issue.....oh, let's get into the age of the earth.....jindal is dead to me......next......

113 "Really Grandpa? We went to space?"

And we came back, too!

114 "Second, as a practical matter, there is simply no reason, medical or moral, that oral contraceptives should require a doctors visit."





You're a lawyer AND a doctor?  Who knew. 


There actually are medical reasons that require a doctor's visit.    Oral contraceptives are not sugar pills.  They can and do have side effects.....and people with certain medical conditions and/or family history of certain medical conditions are contraindicated for taking them.

115 So, who's the Mayans's publicist? He or she is doing a great job for the jade-knife-and-jaguar-god bunch.

116 The left is STILL controlling the narrative! Just because the ACOG says it's so, it is? Could they possibly be on the take from Big Pharm? Hey, introducing false hormones into your body to alter your cycle , no big! right? How convenient it is to keep women always in need of your product: first oral contraceptives, then more drugs for the infertility caused by said pill,then tamoxifan for the breast cancer caused by said pill and in the end, other drugs for the ovarian cancer caused by the tamoxifan? What if the Right had some balls & stood up for women and exposed all the health issues associated with oral contraceptives? What if the Right exposed who is really waging a war on women? But if theRight had any balls in the first place, they wouldn't let the left control the narrative and they would focus like a laser on things like the economy, Benghazi; the Middle East... The left just played Jindal like a Stradivari and he doesn't even know it.

117 " imagine coming home and finding your 14-year old has a pack of these in her schoolbag. Wanna have that conversation?" Better than having the conversation where she's pregnant. Just sayin'.

118 Since not one story that I can find is mentioning it, I'm betting that he's a D appointee.

Posted by: Pope Pol Pot at December 14, 2012 08:03 AM (fjNx5)

I found him on Judge-pedia.  No info at all.

119

OSP, I'm an ED doc, I've seen patient get pulmonary embolisms from OCPs, I am not trying to say they're risk free.  My point was that the risks are comparable to what most people think of as a very safe OTC medication, Tylenol.  Now, granted, people who are at high risk of complications are not (or at least should not be) getting prescriptions for OCPs, so there is a bias to the numbers.  Gabe's rationale that there is no moral or medical reason to not do them OTC is false, but one can still make an argument for contraception to be available OTC--after all, there are people with any number of liver conditions, including alcoholism, that should steer well clear of Tylenol.

 

My personal belief?  They should be prescription.  I think the argument to make them OTC is not a particularly strong one, but it is defensible.

120 Good Morning Morons. Today is Friday, December 14, 2012. On this day in 1799 George Washington died at the age of 67. Tourists today report a strange whine emanating from his tomb at Mount Vernon along with vibrations of the floor. Posted by: Vic at December 14, 2012 06:53 AM (YdQQY) Vic. as usual, thank you for the bit of history. I wonder if the strange whine emanating from Mount Vernon today are from the Father of our Country turning over in his grave because he has seen what this country has turned into in the last years? Our Founding Fathers fought with their lives and these pols now are full of shit and have ruined our once great republic and turned it into mess. Our representatives don't represent us, they do everything to keep their entrenched jobs! YesGood Morning Morons. Today is Friday, December 14, 2012. On this day in 1799 George Washington died at the age of 67. Tourists today report a strange whine emanating from his tomb at Mount Vernon along with vibrations of the floor. Posted by: Vic at December 14, 2012 06:53 AM (YdQQY)and I PO'd at the lot of them and the low information voters that elected TFG and then reelected him! Vic, Thanks for the bit of history today, do you think that the strange sounds coming from Mount Vernon are George Washington turning over in his grave because he can see how the country he and our other Founding Fathers fought with their lives has turned into? Our representatives do not represent us, they do everything to keep their seats and don't care enough to fight for us. They don't follow the Constitution, though they swear to protect and defend it. They all lie, one of the few that did not, Senator DeMint is going to The Heritage Foundation. The JEF is trying to kill the republicans and they'll cave soon! I am pissed off today and it's only 8:05! Good Morning All! Carol

121 Re: Gov. Jindal... while he may be a Republican he is certainly not a conservative. Why would the Federal government be at all interested in birth control pills or the lack thereof? Think about it. While he may be a good man and an effective governor, right now he just looks like "flavuh of the day".

122 112 -

But George Stephanopolis (I don't care if I spelled it right) and Sandra Fluke said it should be a national issue.  So of course Republicans are talking about it! 

They simply must. 

123 I wonder if the strange whine emanating from Mount Vernon today are from the Father of our Country turning over in his grave because he has seen what this country has turned into in the last years?


He, Thomas Jefferson, and all the other founders are spinning like tops.  Indeed, you can not get close to the Monticello cemetery without ear protection.

124 I see I'm not the first to set Gabe straight on the hazards of birth control pills. 


That'll teach me to read the post and not the comments first.

125 There's no need for a prescription. If the female sexual organs detect that the birth control pills might have a deleterious effect, they shut down and prevent the drugs from spreading.

126 The reason there are so few deaths ascribable to birth control pills is precisely BECAUSE you have to have a doctor's prescription.  The people who would suffer serious side-effects or death are weeded out before the prescriptions are written.

How many young women know they have high blood pressure? Probably not many.  How many are aware they have a possible malignant tumor?  None,  or they would already be under a doctor's care.

Young women,  particularly under pressure from young men,  will go get those over-the-counter birth control pills without going to check with a doctor,  no matter how strongly the package suggests it. They will see no reason to be cautious,  since it is sold over the counter.

Deaths from Tylenol are mostly from overdoses, sometimes because people have liver problems they didn't know about,  but mostly overdoses.

You can die taking birth control pills exactly as the package instructs.

The more I think about this,  the more I am convinced that Jindal is an idiot.  Take him off the list.

127 This may be the best news for Republicans since before Dec. 8, 2003, when Pres. Bush signed a new Constitutional right to drugs for seniors act, and removed the last shred of camouflage from the Socialist-lite party: http://preview.tinyurl.com/cpdug9k

128 "Why would the Federal government be at all interested in birth control pills or the lack thereof? Think about it. " That's what Jindal is saying. Not the Fed's business.

129 Everything has side effects, though. People with high blood pressure or liver problems also shouldn't take Sudafed or Tylenol, respectively, as it will kill them dead. And of course we would all pitch a fit if peanuts required a prescription. Make no mistake, I understand hormonal bc to be a bad thing and I don't use it for religious and medical reasons...but I can't see telling other adults that they can't possibly be trusted to decide whether or not they should see the doctor before taking a new (or old) medicine.

130 106 Jordan

...the lord giveth, the lord taketh away...

Ex: Physicians must code precisely every procedure. When there is no code for a certain procedure, physicians request specific info from the government, and are told to utilize the "closest possible" procedural code. Then asswipes like Obama take office, and begin prosecuting reputable physicians -- not the massive gluts defrauding Medic-are/aid -- for having coded as they were told regarding a specific patient that underwent a specific procedure that didn't have a government-code.

No one, no matter how clean, is safe. In fact, the cleaner you are, the more you stand out to be taken down by the corrupt American leadership. Ex: Boehner removing all fiscal-conservative Republicans from House Committee leadership and membership positions, in order to protect himself and his agenda to go-along to get-along with liberal-socialism (Boehner expressly representing the agenda of the National Republican Leadership).

131

Miss Marple, taking Tylenol as directed can kill you too, it just takes much longer for the liver failure to show up.  (Not trying to cause a Tylenol scare here, many people can take the max dose daily for decades and never have a problem--like most drug problems out there, it's probably combinations of certain genes in individuals that haven't been teased out yet.)

 

tl;dr version:  ALL meds have risks--figuring out where to draw the line between prescription and OTC is not a simple question.

132 What's Jindal got for that incredibly rising problem of rape/abortion which apparently is going through the roof?

Jeebus we're drowning in debt, we can't even get the marxist in the WH and his commie enablers to admit we have a spending problem, Uncle Ben is cranking out Monopoly bucks at a record rate, and Jindal leads with this shite?

Hello, forest/trees, HELLO???

I cringe every time that I hear people on our side that our slide started when the women got the right to vote, so this guy goes with this NOW?

You've got to give it to the Frankfurt School crowd, they are masters of misdirection and they've got the GOP chasing their tails like a goddam dumb dog.

WE'RE BROKE this problem supercedes all others.

I wonder if Jindal has ever heard of Cloward and Piven?

133
Make no mistake, I understand hormonal bc to be a bad thing and I don't use it for religious and medical reasons...but I can't see telling other adults that they can't possibly be trusted to decide whether or not they should see the doctor before taking a new (or old) medicine.

Posted by: Jenny tries too hard at December 14, 2012 08:12 AM (b+8h9)

The first part of your statement contradicts the second.  You say you don't take them for medical reasons.....how did you know NOT to take them for medical reasons?

134 @102

I used to get injectable  B12 without a prescription until "they" decided people weren't competent enough to make this decision on their own.

Now in order to get what used to cost me $30.00 for a 30 week supply costs me a $30 dollar co-pay and $50 for a 10 week prescription.

So what cost me $60 dollars a year now costs me $400 fucking dollars because I am not considered capable of making the determination on my own.

135 I understand hormonal bc to be a bad thing and I don't use it for religious and medical reasons...but I can't see telling other adults that they can't possibly be trusted to decide whether or not they should see the doctor before taking a new (or old) medicine.


Maybe, have the person buying the drug be required to present ID and sign for it saying that they have read all of the verbage in all of the languages and fully understand that this product may cause a problem. Just to prevent the TV lawyers another class action suit commercial that annoy the hell out of me.

136 128 -

Is that really what you see?  A guy running for President, puts an op-ed in a major national publication... seems to me  if he didn't want to make a federal case out of it he would have stuck his opinions  some place a lot closer to his chair in the Louisiana governor's residence. 

137 "People with high blood pressure or liver problems also shouldn't take Sudafed or Tylenol, respectively, as it will kill them dead. " Aspirin can cause you fatal internal bleeding or stroke, if you have certain conditions.

138 There still seems to be a considerable lobby in favor of maintaining or increasing the restrictions on birth control access. Although I agree with the governor, this isn't a public conversation that will benefit the GOP. If anything, it will call the crazies like Akin and Mourdock out of their holes and back on television. That will hurt the party.

139 Posted by: Vic at December 14, 2012 07:01 AM (YdQQY)

Not only that, but because of Obamacare, you can't use pretax FSA/MSA money to buy it, either.

140 "...Mississippi RNC member Henry Barbour, Puerto Rico RNC member Zori Fonalledas, South Carolina RNC member Glenn McCall, Gov. Jeb BushÂ’s former chief of staff Sally Bradshaw, and former Bush press secretary Ari Fleischer...." No, they're not the list of suspected collaborators to be waterboarded, they're the 'Growth and Opportunity Project', officially charged with finding out why we lost the election. Most likely finding? It sure as heck wasn't us, nor Socialism-lite. More of the same for you! +Amnesty +gay "marriage" +tax increases! http://preview.tinyurl.com/boft2rh

141 "Jeebus we're drowning in debt, we can't even get the marxist in the WH and his commie enablers to admit we have a spending problem, Uncle Ben is cranking out Monopoly bucks at a record rate, and Jindal leads with this shite?" That "shite" is what won the election for Obama.

142 tl;dr version: ALL meds have risks--figuring out where to draw the line between prescription and OTC is not a simple question.

OK.  Would you advise YOUR wife or daughter to just run down to the drugstore and take contraceptives without an exam?

If not,  why would it be ok for other women to do so?

143 tami....it's part of her schtick....and it's in her nic...she tries to hard......

144 Great idea, Bruce.  Remember how the tobacco companies crushed that class action lawsuit becuase they had the Surgeon General's warning on every single pack of cigarettes, and you had to show proof of being at least 18 years old to buy them?  Yeah, me neither.

145 So Gov Jindal wakes up one morning and says hey maybe I'll write an op-ed. Jindal writes, however, not about a black vendor victimized by union thugs, not about the virtues of right to work, not about the case for lower taxes, not about the need for spending reform, not about the stupidity in installing a new dictator in Egypt and now in Syria. Jindal opines about the most pressing matter on people's minds today: birth control. And this is why we lose to Democrats.

146 "if he didn't want to make a federal case out of it he would have stuck his opinions some place a lot closer to his chair in the Louisiana governor's residence." Sorry, that doesn't even make sense. The Louisiana government has no role in drug regulation.

147 Miss Marple, see above, I already stated that I am in favor of prescriptions for oral contraceptives--so no, I would not.

148 I can't see telling other adults that they can't possibly be trusted to decide whether or not they should see the doctor before taking a new (or old) medicine.

**

kids in 6th grade are not adults but are sexually active.

adults who have seen their physician for a prescription can call to have it refilled without any new legislation mandating "over the counter" availability to whomever.

Hell, you can't even buy sudafed over the counter without producing your driver's license and signing the pharmacy's computer base twice, swearing that you know and accept the legal consequences including prosecution for any abuse.

149 @128 Check your compass. You're 180-degrees out of phase. Why would the Federal government have ANYTHING to do with...

150 The Louisiana government has no role in drug regulation.
**
Except in Louisiana. Let the courts at it.

151

"Do we value human life from conception to death, or do we decide what is a valuable life worth preserving based on the needs of society?"

 

That is a Hobson's choice.

 

The choice is do we allow the government to dictate what we can and cannot put in our bodies.

 

If one insists that we value life, and that is perfectly acceptable position, then have we not also said the Federal State has a role in deciding how much soda, salt, sugar, fat, etc. can be consumed?  I say no.

 

I think the choice to abort is one that is only best decided by those that have to deal with its consequenses.  This is not to say the State doesn't have an interest, it is to say that its interest does not supercede that of the individual.

 

Is it unfortunate that some people wish to end the life of fetilized eggs or unborn children?  Yes.  Is it something the Federal State should be regulating?  No.

 

At the individual State level, the legislators can determine what they will.  However even at that level, I would posit that in my state, its constitution does not allow for that regulation either. 

 

 

 

 

152 Surgeon General's warning on every single pack of cigarettes, and you had to show proof of being at least 18 years old to buy them? Yeah, me neither. Posted by: Conservative Crank, in work purgatory


Jeez, I miss cigarettes.

Plus being able to smoke them inside a bar.

153 "if he didn't want to make a federal case out of it he would have stuck his opinions some place a lot closer to his chair in the Louisiana governor's residence." Sorry, that doesn't even make sense. The Louisiana government has no role in drug regulation. Posted by: Pope Pol Pot at December 14, 2012 08:19 AM (fjNx5) Well, if he does decide to run for pres, I can see another candidate on stage during the primaries waving that op ed around like a red cape to a bull.

154 "I'm sorry, your son was stupid." Yeah, pretty much. That's more or less a definition of a 14-25 year old guy. Sailors on shore leave have been getting themselves killed in creative-yet-stupid ways since the time of the Phoenicians, if not before.

155 Jordan, STFU, dunce. And get back under the stairs.

156 I like it better when everyone is on the "let it burn" kick. 

This "let's be more like the democrats" thing, not so much.

157 103 ...a reliable figure for deaths in the US that can be attributed directly to oral contraceptives--I'm certain it's greater than 0, though most likely less than 500. Posted by: Conservative Crank, in work purgatory at December 14, 2012 07:50 AM It is quite insidious stuff. There will be millions of deaths in the future from complications of the pill. Cancer, cardiomyopothy and other heart conditions, liver and kidney problems. The list is endless. When you screw with hormones you screw with the entire body besides the targeted effect. Just inform people that for the benefit of screwing without a rubber and a possible pregnancy they will most likely suffer grossly in their older years. Posted by: Dept of Accuracy at December 14, 2012 08:02 AM (+I8Mq) Oh,thank you and all the other folks pointing outthe errors risk factors. I'd also like to add in the increased risk of cancer, especially breast cancer and they're now seeing a strong correlation between breast another feminine cancers and hormonal contraceptives (and hormone replacement therapies for menopausal women, as well). Estrogen, in high quantities, can cause cancer. Oral contraceptives are a form of estrogen. Additionally, there can be fertility problems for women who use oral contraceptives long term and women who use IUDs. I certainly dont advicate banning them for folks who want them. But it's a bit more complicated a picture than a lot of people realize.

158 Did the Mayans really work out the math for that 12/12 asteroid fly-by, or are there so many that close that the scientists just don't want to scare people

159 >>That "shite" is what won the election for Obama.
Posted by: Pope Pol Pot at December 14, 2012 08:17 AM (fjNx5)

Sorry, the GOP fucking blew the election like $20 dollar whooah.

Shithead was just in the right place at the wrong time for this country, his life's story as it turns out.

You missed the part about misdirection.

GOP = no direction.

160 I was never told by a doctor not to take bc, Tami. I took it as a teen before I converted, and it made me feel wretched for various tmi reasons, so I stopped. I thought about taking it again about a year later and decided on my own that the side effects and the history of high blood pressure in my family made it not worth it. Because I don't need a doc to tell me every damn thing to do. Incidentally my dad is a doc and he was very loud in his disapproval of the no bc thing when I converted. He of course knows my family history and said "ya know pregnancy raises blood pressure, too."

161

Great.  Thanks alot, NASA.  You just took away the only hope I had left. 

Jindal's kidding himself if he thinks he can get elected to the presidency in 2016.  "Over the counter birth control."  Now there's a big theme.

The bought-off dullards and aggreived victim groups outnumber the responsible in this country by just under five million votes by my count.  That deficit will only get wider when Obama nationalizes another 3 or 4 million illegals. 

 

 

162 146 -

You're not very good at following logic, are you.

The guy is running for President, genius. 

163 oh boy....

164 Promise everything to everyone. Destroy and demonize the left with outrageous lies repeated ad nauseum. Steal as many votes as you can, electronically, and in swing states. That's the path to victory now.

165 Jindal's kidding himself if he thinks he can get elected to the presidency in 2016. "Over the counter birth control." Now there's a big theme.

"Promise them anything. Just get their votes." Romney 2008

166 :::There actually are medical reasons that require a doctor's visit. Oral contraceptives are not sugar pills. They can and do have side effects.....and people with certain medical conditions and/or family history of certain medical conditions are contraindicated for taking them.::: So put a warning label on it that you should consult your physician before taking them. And then FUCK IT. Lack of consequences got us to where we are now: moral, legal, and financial. Despair, prison and deprivation are the education system of last resort. Jindal is a fucking idiot, but what the hey? Letting him run with it is in line with Letting It Burn, so I don't care.

167 Mandy, that would be a good argument if docs weren't handing out the scripts like candy.

168 LOL @ the "the pill will cause millions of deaths" doomsayers. The 1960s called, and they want you back!

169 Combine human nature, technology, and the law. Stir well.

170 "You're not very good at following logic, are you. The guy is running for President, genius. " So your "logic" is that he's running for President, therefore he should stick "close to home in Louisiana"? Moron. And I don't mean that in a good way.

171 #147  I am sorry.  I guess I misunderstood what you were saying.

You know what comes out of all of this to me?  Many men treat this in a cavalier fashion,  because apparently the most important thing in our culture is to have sex at will without consequences for the man.
Sex anytime,  anywhere.  Don't want to get married?  Just go right ahead.  The girl will just have to get an abortion (with attendant physical and emotional consequences.)  Or she can have the child and try to raise it by herself. (With financial and emotional consequences to both her and the child.)   Or,  she just take birth control pills,  because God forbid the guy take some of the responsibility himself. Then if she has a stroke,  her parents can assume her care.

I do not see where women are getting much benefit from all of this sexual liberation that has been promoted for the last 40 years. 

172 I suspect that Jindal knows that oral contraceptives have almost no chance of being sold OTC. How to indemnify manufacturers and pharmacists from the lawsuits over the negative side effects of OCs? What about the real danger to women's health from the side effects, not to mention that many of them will skip annual exams and pap smears because, well, those are no fun. However, promoting this measure takes away the troglodyte image of the GOP, however briefly. The dems will turn this into another war on women moment, just watch.

173 Don't you just love the roll of the dice formatting?

Barely recognize half of your own comments.

174 Obama you FKN genius, you got the rons arguing about birth control.

175 170 -

You also can't read. 

Bye, idiot. 

176 160 I was never told by a doctor not to take bc, Tami. I took it as a teen before I converted, and it made me feel wretched for various tmi reasons, so I stopped. I thought about taking it again about a year later and decided on my own that the side effects and the history of high blood pressure in my family made it not worth it. Because I don't need a doc to tell me every damn thing to do.

Incidentally my dad is a doc and he was very loud in his disapproval of the no bc thing when I converted. He of course knows my family history and said "ya know pregnancy raises blood pressure, too."

Posted by: Jenny tries too hard at December 14, 2012 08:24 AM (b+8h9)

So in addition to the way they made you feel, you knew that your family history of high blood pressure meant you shouldn't take them?  Does that not tell you anything?

177 oldsailors poet you win the thread.....jindal is an idiot.....

178 enough with telling me I have to go the doctor before I, an adult, should be allowed to take my own chances. I'd have no problem with his sentiment if we lived in a place where people took personal responsibility and didn't seek a lawyer and a multi million dollar settlement after taking their "own chances."

179 Jeff, the specifics don't matter, he is grabbing the pennant that Romney left on the field - I hope he and his family are ready for the fire from the media.

180 "You also can't read. Bye, idiot." "A guy running for President, puts an op-ed in a major national publication... seems to me if he didn't want to make a federal case out of it he would have stuck his opinions some place a lot closer to his chair in the Louisiana governor's residence." Have a nice day, troll.

181 He, Thomas Jefferson, and all the other founders are spinning like tops. Indeed, you can not get close to the Monticello cemetery without ear protection. Posted by: Vic at December 14, 2012 08:09 AM (YdQQY) Vic, it seems neither one of us is interested in the bc issue. Have a good day. I have to get ready for work. Have a great day today! Carol

182 178 -

That's why Gabe loves issues like this.  He gets to have his personally liberal position, and a nice paycheck after it all comes crashing down and people start suing. 

183 So, I take it that "Django" isn't a bio-pic about Django Reinhardt.

184 "How to indemnify manufacturers and pharmacists from the lawsuits over the negative side effects of OCs?" Pharmacists won't enter into it if it's OTC. Manufacturers of other OTC medications that can cause lethal side effects in certain people (WHICH IS ALL OF THEM. EVERY SINGLE ONE) buy insurance. If the anti-OTC folks on here are right, the risk will be so high that they can't get insurance. If the FDA is right, they will be able to get it. Next!

185 @178 Eureka! Not where they "don't", but where they "can't".. namely, in the Shining City on the Hill, where American Liberty finally comes true for once.

186

let's say a girl takes the OTC pills and is harmed and wins a lawsuit.  Price of product goes up.  Product is likely made safer to stem future suits.  Compitition makes safer pills.  individuals beifit in long run. 

 

Take as many pills as you like.  manufacturers may or may not put labels on them indicating side effects.  The market will sort it out just fine without the State screwing it up.

187

You're not very good at following logic, are you.

The guy is running for President, genius.

 

Then maybe the cockholster should be laying out a plan to hit the brakes, back off the cliff and go find that nice, paved, Eisenhower insterstate back to prosperity instead of spending his time rooting around the greasy snatches of Sandy Fluke and her Free Fuck Army like a starving pig looking for truffles.

 

I think I'll go deal with the unpaid invoices sitting on my desk.  That'll be a hell of a lot more entertaining than this morning's thread.  bbl, maybe.

188 Which way are we going here, people? Are we stopping the dumbing down and dependency thingy and starting a new I am smart enough to be my own doctor thingy??? Rearranging deck chairs. Real issues howl silently.

189 LOL @ the "the pill will cause millions of deaths" doomsayers. The 1960s called, and they want you back!

Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 08:27 AM (Hz1zc)

 

Humanae Vitae, motherfucker, what does it say?

190 :::183 So, I take it that "Django" isn't a bio-pic about Django Reinhardt. Posted by: Al at December 14, 2012 08:33 AM (V70Uh)::: That's funny, because he was the first thing that popped to mind when I saw the name of the movie. If it were, I'd go see it.

191 Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 14, 2012 08:34 AM (zF6Iw) LOL, I started reading that and thought it was Captain Hate.

192 If you sold a revolver with a tag that said " do not point loaded weapon at your head and pull trigger" someone would do that.

193 Miss Marple, no need to apologize--I wasn't offended, and it's easy to miss something in all the comment spam

194 "Humanae Vitae, motherfucker, what does it say?" The Pope doesn't run the United States, no matter how much you might want that to be the case.

195 @192 We can hope....

196 what's that site that lets you block comments?

197 187 -

It sure looks to me like that is Jindal's game here.  He's going for the Democrat Lite label, as he competes with Jeb and Jabba Christie for that front-runner status.

And now that I say it, I like the way that sounds:  The Jindal, Jeb and Jabba show. 

198 180 Being an irregular poster @ ace, you don't know the regulars.

"troll"?!

199 Birth control is already available OTC. You can buy prophylactics anywhere. You can tie your knees together for free.

200 @194, No, but God does. As Laura put it in "Little Town on the Prairie", "God is America's King." Like it or not, m-f'er.

201 Mary Poppins with the threadwinner there at 189...

202 "That's funny, because he was the first thing that popped to mind when I saw the name of the movie. If it were, I'd go see it." I was hoping that was the case as well. Dude had an incredible life story. His hands were basically just claws after he got burned in a fire, but became one of the greatest guitarists EVER. I can't understand why there hasn't been a biopic.

203 186 let's say a girl takes the OTC pills and isharmed and wins a lawsuit. Price of product goes up. Product islikely made safer to stem future suits. Compitition makes safer pills. individuals beifit in long run. Take as many pills as you like. manufacturers may or may not put labels on them indicating side effects. The market will sort it out just fine without the State screwing it up. Posted by: sophistahick at December 14, 2012 08:34 AM (UhXzR) And then all those poor folks wouldn't be able to afford it anymore and they'll all be clamoring for everyone else to pay for it. Again. So we're right back where we started.

204 187. Then maybe the cockholster should be laying out a plan to hit the brakes, back off the cliff and go find that nice, paved, Eisenhower insterstate back to prosperity instead of spending his time rooting aroundthe greasy snatches of Sandy Fluke and herFree Fuck Armylike a starving pig looking for truffles.

(worth repeating)

205 ACLU - Anti-Christian Litigation Unit

206 Wow, I can't believe the butthurt going on around this. I think the real decision is, where do we stop. If you think OTC BCP is OK, what drugs shouldn't be OTC. Should it all be OTC? Everytime some idiot fails to read instructions on a drug and ends up in the ER, most of the time we all pay for it to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars.

207 Have a great day today!
Carol

Posted by: CarolT at December 14, 2012 08:33 AM (z4WKX)

Have a good one.  I'll be leaving shortly as well. In between paging through all the BC debate I am packing.

And debating BC is stupid. I would estimate that < 5% of the voting population gives a shit about this issue and they are all stupid democrats.

208 199: People aren't going to stop fucking. Not going to happen. Sorry. The way that was handled in the "good old days" was marrying them off at 14 years old so they could fuck legally. That's no longer an option.

209 There's absolutely no question that social issues will be de rigueur in the '15-'16 cycle. Precisely because of the horrible demographics of the GOP's primary selectorate and of course the Democrat media's vested interest in using these items to the advantage of the Democrat Party. That Iowa and South Carolina are two of the first three contests adds fuel to that fire. By that point in time the economy -- always by far the top issue in any national election cycle -- overwhelmingly will be the top issue. Yet you can bet your bottom dollar that the GOP primary season quickly will devolve into a pissing match about abortion, contraceptives, vaccines, deportations, gay marriage, evolution, and like matters. As for Jindal, as is the case with various prospective candidates, his problem will be the erstwhile "base" of the GOP. And his views about birth control and its OTC availability are tertiary. Let's not be staggeringly naive and let's not simply ignore the neon elephant in the room.

210 The reason BC pills won't go OTC is because then the FSA would have to pay for it.  As of right now, the JEF is promising them that it's "free" with their medical insurance.

211 LOL @ the "the pill will cause millions of deaths" doomsayers. The 1960s called, and they want you back! Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 08:27 AM (Hz1zc) So I'm, guessing that you probably missed the point that it actually did. Yes? Yet more Community-Based Reality.

212 I think it should be legal but make no mistake, it will not draw any taxes and it will not make more work for farm type people. People will grow it in pots on their porches. Posted by: Vic at December 14, 2012 07:25 AM (YdQQY) Would you say this about potatoes? Many people live in climates not suitable. You'd definitely be picking up special strains at Walmart.

213 "So I'm, guessing that you probably missed the point that it actually did. " Millions of deaths? MILLIONS? Bullshit.

214 That was a meteor shower last night? I assumed was just the psilocybin and anti-psychotics talking. Anyhoo, on a related note, I support Jindal on the no-prescription rule. The gov't ought to abolish the prescription-only system altogether. It's a clear Nanny-State program that just happens to inflate prices for the benefit of an industry that happens to also be a major political briber ... er, contributor.

215 203 -

Darn it!  That socialism stuff sure does sound nice, up until the point where I find out I have to  be the one who  pays  for it. 

216 Everytime some idiot fails to read instructions on a drug and ends up in the ER, most of the time we all pay for it to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 14, 2012 08:41 AM (3Y7RV) What about pregnancies and abortions?

217 Oh that's right, we're already paying for those. Thanks Obama!

218

From a moral standpoint, Gabe, imagine coming home and finding your 14-year old has a pack of these in her schoolbag. Wanna have that conversation?

 

Er...Jindal's proposal is for adults to have access over-the-counter. So, I'm sure my first question in the conversation would be: "where'd you get 'em?" and my next action would be to call the police.

 

As for the folks (AlexTC, others) saying that birth control can cause medical complications and so should require a doctor's visit, so can Tylenol and you better believe the morning-after pill can, as well as dozens of things you can buy in the store. That includes hundreds of unregulated "supplements"!

I take your point, however. I swept too broadly when I said there was "simply no medical reason" to require a doctor's appointment. So let me amend to say that, to say that just because something is dangerous for some few does not mean we should be restricting access for all. Of course women should be encouraged to see their doctors if they have or suspect complications or simply want to be sure they'll be free of complications before they start a new pill regime. But that should not stop other women (most women) from easy and cheap access to safe medication.

219 Would you say this about potatoes? Many people live in climates not suitable. You'd definitely be picking up special strains at Walmart.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at December 14, 2012 08:42 AM (FsUAO)

You can grow pot practically anywhere in North America. Indoors or out.

220 @211 "Yet more Community-Based Reality." Brilliant! Pretty much sums it up, don't it? (My pet peeve is "Collective Salvation". As effin' if! I can't get to Heaven unless L'il Barry does?!? C'mon!)

221 Stalin's "wit": one human life lost, a tragedy; millions a mere statistic.

222 People aren't going to stop fucking. Not going to happen. Sorry. I can't see the reason why I'm supposed to pay for them because they're not smart enough to stop fucking for 4 days a month. That's still 317 days a year they can get their freak on - 318 in a leap year.

223 208 That's no longer an option. Posted by: Pope Pol Pot at December 14, 2012 08:41 AM (fjNx5) Unless you're Muslim.

224 You can grow pot practically anywhere in North America. Indoors or out. Posted by: Vic at December 14, 2012 08:44 AM (YdQQY) There'd be huge markets in colder climates... the market is already there, you think people would take their time to grow those when we don't grow our own tomatoes?

225 215 203 - Darn it! That socialism stuff sure does sound nice, up until the point where I find out I have to be the one who pays for it. Posted by: BurtTC at December 14, 2012 08:43 AM (BeSEI) Exactly. It amazes me that Jindal thinks making oral contraceptives OTC is somehow going to stop the free shit tide. Condoms are available OTC, and they're not exactly expensive. And yet go to the local govt. run clinic or health department and you can get a whole pile of them for free. So we're already paying for shit they can get cheaply OTC. Jindal's solution won't do anything to stop the people who want on the gravy train.

226 "Unless you're Muslim" Or a Mormon.

227

"And then all those poor folks wouldn't be able to afford it anymore and they'll all be clamoring for everyone else to pay for it. Again. So we're right back where we started." Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at

 

Actually within a free market without the FDA, the prices would come down.

 

And if the folks can't afford it then let them clamor all they want.  In the mean time they may abstain or not and be faced with the reprocussions.  Not my problem.  And I shouldn't have to pay in either case.

228 Potheads are far too lazy to grow their own, given that they could roll up to 7-11 and pick some up with their Ding Dongs.

229 Medical device companies are getting ready for huge layoffs and other cost cutting as Obamacare stares at them over the horizon. But I am sure the unemployment rate will go down again next month.

http://is.gd/NOZ014

Posted by: Vic at December 14, 2012 06:53 AM (YdQQY)

Who would have thunk that free healthcare will bankrupt the country

230 @219 You should see my "grow room"!

231 He's going for the Democrat Lite label, as he competes with Jeb and Jabba Christie for that front-runner status.  And now that I say it, I like the way that sounds: The Jindal, Jeb and Jabba show.**

It worked so well for McCain and Romney, that winning strategy promoted by PAID advisers.

232 211 -


Sshhh!  Don't tell them how.  They haven't quite figured it out, and it's kind of fun watching them struggle with it. 

233 226 Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 08:46 AM (Hz1zc) Islam is the religion of peace. Mormonism is evil. Did I get that right? /s

234

The Pope doesn't run the United States, no matter how much you might want that to be the case.

 

Another assmuncher who thinks he's the second coming of Voltaire.  Here's a tip for you, slick - why don't you actualy read - maybe have mommy sound out the big, scary, two-syllable words - HV and see what Paul VI had to say about what the medical and especially moral effects of the Pill would be, and then look around at this hellhole of modern society and ask yourself whether or not he was right on the fucking money.

 

Or go choke on the barbed cock of Satan until you die in a puddle of your own fetid vomit.  I don't really care which.

235 "Islam is the religion of peace. Mormonism is evil. Did I get that right? /s" No, J.J., you didn't. Both religions are just hokey bullshit.

236 "I can't see the reason why I'm supposed to pay for them" Another argument for making it OTC.

237 I love the smell of flame war/burning trolls in the morning thread. Ahhh.....

238 Millions did not die directly from the BC pill, but indirectly millions did.  Here's a hint -  did unwanted pregnancies and abortion go up or go down after BC pill became widely available?  The answer is that they went UP.  Why would that be?  Because while the BC pill decreases the chance of pregnancy with each individual act of boning, the cumultive incidence of boning where pregnancy would be undesirable (i.e. in teenagers, out-of-wedlock, adultery etc.) went way up.  Even if the BC pill has a failure rate of only 1-5% real world, that percentage gets multiplied by millions, so that ends up being a lot of babies conceived where they specifically weren't wanted - hence millions of abortions.

239 Happy Friday horde. So, what the hell was the dust up about Malkin?

240 Medical device companies are getting ready for huge layoffs and other
cost cutting

**my sister is put out that her surgeon put off her hip-replacement surgery this week after he sliced his thumb during another patient's operation.

My, the inconvenience of having to reschedule with a surgeon boasting 10 fingers and no hangover.

241 But that should not stop other women (most women) from easy and cheap access to safe medication. Posted by: Gabriel Malor at December 14, 2012 08:44 AM (B2LxR) Yes. Sell it like beer is sold. At some moment you must let people be stupid. It is the price of freedom.

242 So Jindal isn't selling out any conservative principles... but he's selling out on the Tough Guy Red Meat Platform, so he's like RINO Christie? Really? Coming from the people who supported Tough Guy Red Meat RINO Christie until he colluded with Obama? Really? Jindal's not my top choice, but seeing you Morons' reactions to sensible comments makes me feel not so bad about the guy.

243 "see what Paul VI had to say about what the medical and especially moral effects of the Pill would be" I don't actually give a shit. Sorry.

244

So NASA took time out from their busy schedule of reaching out to Muslims just to make a video about how    the Mayans were a bunch of fear mongering twerps?      

 

My tax dollars at work!

245 Po- ta- toe grow room.

246 227 "And then all those poor folks wouldn't be able to afford it anymore and they'll all be clamoring for everyone else to pay for it. Again. So we're right back where we started." Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at Actually within a free market without the FDA, the prices would come down. And if the folks can't afford it then let them clamor all they want. In the mean time they may abstain or not and be faced with the reprocussions. Not my problem. And Ishouldn't have to pay in either case. Posted by: sophistahick at December 14, 2012 08:47 AM (UhXzR) And yet, the fact that one can obtain this stuff at Wal-Mart for $9 doesn't stop the push for free shit. You're talking fantasy universe stuff. No, it *shouldn't* be our problem when someone can't pay for what they *want* but that hasn't exactly stopped the Feds from intruding anyway.

247 Or a Mormon.Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 08:46 AM (Hz1zc) Nice try. Not legal. See, the way this works is other countries have their laws, and we have ours. With me so far? I know it's hard, stick with it. Since you can't marry at 14 in the U.S., and the vast majority of Mormons are in the U.S., they can't marry. So out the window goes your slur. It hard hard now, so hang in there.....whereas Muslims not living in the U.S. can go by the laws of their country. Get it? Only took me 3 minutes to prove you're a twit. Man, every time you post you tick off another logical fallacy. You trying to knock out all 42 of them before lunch?

248 And yet, the fact that one can obtain this stuff at Wal-Mart for $9 doesn't stop the push for free shit. You're talking fantasy universe stuff. No, it *shouldn't* be our problem when someone can't pay for what they *want* but that hasn't exactly stopped the Feds from intruding anyway. Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at December 14, 2012 08:51 AM (qFpRI) Why should we make it *easier* for the FSA? Bring prices down. Increase freedom. End of story.

249 "Millions did not die directly from the BC pill, but indirectly millions did. " Think about how many fetuses were aborted due to the invention of the car, which made it possible for teenagers to get away from their parents and screw in the back seat.

250

Medical device companies are getting ready for huge layoffs and other

cost cutting

 

My brother in law    used to    work in a medical device company.   He said there is NO way it's going to survive    Obamacare.   Just no way.

251 Oh wow. That was unexpected. Crowder's wife has an armed guard due to the threats. Who am I kidding. That's totally expected with the shithole lefty cowards.

252 I don't actually give a shit. Sorry.Posted by: Pope Pol Pot at December 14, 2012 08:50 AM (fjNx5) Why? Because he was correct? That would harsh your mellow?

253

As for pot, pot gets you high, tomatoes don't.  If there is one thing industrious about pot users it is getting more pot.  They will definitely grow it just as they do now. 

 

You want to smoke, go ahead.  You get in a car or otherwise risk harm to anyone else, the book shall be thrown at you.

254 235 Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 08:49 AM (Hz1zc) When was the last time a Mormon set up an IED, or flew a plane into a skyscraper, or beheaded someone with a rusty hacksaw? Every religion has its crackpots and fiends. Only one seems to be led by them and adhered to by just north of a billion of them.

255 "Why? Because he was correct? " Because his mystical beliefs hold no interest for me whatsoever. I don't pay much attention to the Dalai Lama or the Grand Ayatollah, either.

256 "247 Or a Mormon.Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 08:46 AM (Hz1zc) Nice try. Not legal. Since you can't marry at 14 in the U.S., and the vast majority of Mormons are in the U.S., they can't marry. So out the window goes your slur. " Lol. You probably believe the Romneys moved to Mexico for the warm climate.

257 The GOP is so goddamned stupid. Instead of addressing the economy, regulation, energy policy or our crushing debt, they're taking the Democrat's base and discussing trivialities.

As others have pointed out, birth control has some potentially dangerous side effects. You shouldn't be messing with your hormones without consulting a doctor.
Jindal's proposal is asinine.

258 Oh wow. That was unexpected.

Crowder's wife has an armed guard due to the threats.


Who am I kidding. That's totally expected with the shithole lefty cowards.

Posted by: RWC at December 14, 2012 08:52 AM (fWAjv)

The left is about as peaceful as members of the religion of peace are

259 Lol. You probably believe the Romneys moved to Mexico for the warm climate.

Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 08:55 AM (Hz1zc)

 

*pees on you*

 

Yeah,    I'm being vile.         I'm not in the mood for trolls today. 

260 let's say a girl takes the OTC pills and isharmed and wins a lawsuit. Price of product goes up. Product islikely made safer to stem future suits. Compitition makes safer pills.

You have no idea how hormonal birth control works, do you? It fucks with the endocrine system.  If it doesn't, it doesn't work, and if it doesn't work, what's the point?

The reason we don't like that shit being passed out by school nurses like TicTacs is because not because we're dried-up hags who hate the idea that young women fuck, it's because we don't like seeing intentionally-ill-informed young women being encouraged to fuck up their bodies.

261 "Every religion has its crackpots and fiends." ^Truest thing I've ever read on here. Sadly.

262 It's about principles, do you believe in the maximum amount of individual freedom liberty in descision making or do you believe the individual does not know always know best and must be protected from themselves?


I believe in giving the maximum amount of individual freedom and you let the chips fall where they may.

We now have people telling you what size soft drink you can sell to people, for their own good you see, boys and girls and that road leads to oblivion
 

263 Because his mystical beliefs hold no interest for me whatsoever. Posted by: Pope Pol Pot at December 14, 2012 08:54 AM (fjNx5) Actually, it a philosophical argument. It had nothing to do with theology at all. But you wouldn't know that since you're ignorant - and quite intellectually incurious. We expect trolls to stay in their warm cocoon. Enjoy.

264 "Oh, but there are so many instrumental reasons for throwing the Constitution out the window! Let's just do that, shall we?"

265

Crowder's wife has an armed guard due to the threats.

 

Why am I not surprised?   The left is despicable.   Just despicable.

 

Do the Crowders have any children?  I hope not.    

266 261 "Every religion has its crackpots and fiends." ^Truest thing I've ever read on here. Sadly. Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 08:56 AM (Hz1zc) I like the way you cherry picked the comment. You work for MSNBC?

267 One of my first rotations in Physician Assistant school was at a stroke rehab center at Rancho Los Amigos in Downey, CA. One of our post-stroke patients was a mid-20's female. Absolutely NO risk factors. The only thing she had in her history was oral contraceptives. Completely benign drug, my ass.

268 Do the Crowders have any children? I hope not. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 14, 2012 08:57 AM (4df7R) Not unless he's catholic. He got married fairly recently.

269 Each State should control how these drugs are dispensed and sold. Keep the Federal Empire out of it. Good luck with that.

270 Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 08:55 AM (Hz1zc)

*pees on you*

Yeah, I'm being vile. I'm not in the mood for trolls today.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 14, 2012 08:56 AM (4df7R)

This little Jordan turd floats to the surface ever now and then. It's as dim as it is dull.

271 I like the way you cherry picked the comment. You work for MSNBC?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 14, 2012 08:58 AM (XkWWK)

 

LOL!  J.J., you    really     think     Jordan WORKS?  

272 #234  Mary Poppins,  this is so true.  When I was young and pretty much heathenish,  I thought Pope Paul's encyclical was just scare-mongering.  Well,  everything he predicted has come to pass.

The Readers' Digest version of his warnings: increased divorce, exploitation of women as sexual objects, increased abortion, illegitimate births, disrespect for marrriage, etc. etc.  Also he detailed health risks such as difficulty in conceiving later in life.

When I go back and read Humana Vitae,  it is as if he had a window to our current times.

273 When you're right, you're right. Every religion has its crackpots and fiends. On some days, I'm inclined to think them to be a majority.

274 One of our post-stroke patients was a mid-20's female. Absolutely NO risk factors. The only thing she had in her history was oral contraceptives. Completely benign drug, my ass. Posted by: Dr. Bobby Jindal at December 14, 2012 08:58 AM (nzlU3) No one ever said it was benign. The goalposts are fine right where they are.

275 "Since you can't marry at 14 in the U.S." Wikipedia says 13 in New Hampshire. 12 in Virginia. In both cases parental consent is required. Several states don't have a minimum age at all, if you can get the permission of a judge.

276 Prescription laws exist because people are stupid.  By definition half of the population has below average intelligence.  Until you work in the healthcare field, you will not believe how stupid people will be.  I have literally heard of people sticking rectal suppositories in their ear.  And don't get me started on the various things that ER docs have to remove from peoples' asses.

277 Lol. You probably believe the Romneys moved to Mexico for the warm climate.Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 08:55 AM (Hz1zc) They were in Mexico right? Last time I checked, Mexico didn't wholly appropriate U.S. law then, or now. My point still holds, you're still making a hash of your argument and - you're still an idiot. Seriously, how can you not see how mind-numbingly stupid you are? Shit. Dunning-Kruger Effect. Never mind, don't answer. OK, I'm done here.

278 This little Jordan turd floats to the surface ever now and then. It's as dim as it is dull.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 14, 2012 08:59 AM (1Jaio)

 

Oh, I know.  He's almost as irritating as t1NL0.  

 

Hey, has anyone asked him if the TX legislature is in session?   He's in the know about these things.

279 Flame wars are really efficient and comforting on these cold mornings.

15 here.  

280 "It had nothing to do with theology at all." Bullshit.

281 That's what Jindal is saying. Not the Fed's business.

And he's wrong.  Sometimes federalism isn't the right answer.  Turning something over to 50 xxFDAs and state bar associations isn't going to produce better results in this case.

282 And he's wrong. Sometimes federalism isn't the right answer. Turning something over to 50 xxFDAs and state bar associations isn't going to produce better results in this case. Posted by: DaveA at December 14, 2012 09:00 AM (Xefrb) 0 FDAs please.

283 And I would like to point out no candidate was running on a platform of banning birth control. Not. One. The entire reason this is even an issue is because the Democrats wanted to force people who were against it for religious reasons to pay for it for someone else. Hence, they wanted to violate their first amendment rights. And yet, here we are arguing about putting to bed some issue that does not exist because King Barack the Apostle wanted to violate the first amendment to give out more free shit. No one wants to ban it. No one wants to make it harder to get. We want to leave it alone. It's already cheap as hell and easily obtained, as the statistics showing 99% of women who want it have no problem getting it. That's a frigging fantastic efficacy rate as far as "access" goes. Hence, there is no issue. This is all a pile of bull and now we've got potential POTUS candidates addressing the bullshit seriously like it's some real problem. Stupid party, indeed.

284 But that should not stop other women (most women) from easy and cheap access to safe medication.

Women currently have the same access to hormonal contraceptives as they have to asthma inhalers (the EPA took the non-prescription inhalers off the market last year).

285 Wikipedia says 13 in New Hampshire. 12 in Virginia. In both cases parental consent is required. Several states don't have a minimum age at all, if you can get the permission of a judge.Posted by: Pope Pol Pot at December 14, 2012 08:59 AM (fjNx5) Wrong. Again. You wouldn't know that though, because you think Wikipedia is authoritative. Now go check the actual state web sites.

286 "Hey, has anyone asked him if the TX legislature is in session? He's in the know about these things." Nope, but Obama is still your president.

287 "I remember all the time we spent in law school stuudying the precedential value of Wikipedia. " The article has links to the respective state statues. Other than that, great point.

288 you really think Jordan WORKS? Would you hire him? I expect he's still working free internships and stealing internet from them. The provincial know-nothing does get tiresome though. Jordon, Jon, and Olaf, the three dunces of the Obamaclypse.

289 Prescription laws exist because people are stupid. By definition half of the population has below average intelligence. Until you work in the healthcare field, you will not believe how stupid people will be. I have literally heard of people sticking rectal suppositories in their ear. And don't get me started on the various things that ER docs have to remove from peoples' asses. Posted by: MM at December 14, 2012 08:59 AM (ZMhO7) Half the population has below-average IQ if the average is close to the median. I suspect it is so.

290 ::::Man, every time you post you tick off another logical fallacy. You trying to knock out all 42 of them before lunch?::: Jordan's one of our resident Paultards. Isn't he the one that said we don't need a military because we have nukes?

291 At some moment you must let people be stupid. It is the price of freedom. Fuck yeah. Let the idiots Darwin themselves out of existence. Once the Gib-Me population drops, we'll stand a chance of winning a federal election. I am so fucking sick of people who think they're smarter than the market as a whole. Let's assume that the prescription system actually saves lives. Then what? We get the lovely side-effect of witnessing a multi-generational swell in the segment of the population that is too fucking stupid to tie its own shoelaces, much less vote for free-market policies. Freedom and property rights really do solve every complex social problem, even if people are too stupid and/or short-sighted to understand it.

292
Bullshit.

Posted by: Pope Pol Pot at December 14, 2012 09:00 AM (fjNx5)

 

Why don't you try actually READING it, 3P, instead of automatically gainsaying what others have said.  Believe it or not, it's possible to be devoutly religious and still write something that's not a religious tome.   Just like it's possible to be an atheist and still read the    works of religious individuals without acting like a dickbag. 

293 Sending our troops and missiles to Turkey scares the crap out of me. It's not just a baby step into another war in the M.E. And, who's side will TFG come down on in the end. I don't trust this administration. They act on their irrational ideology versus the nations interest.

294 275 -

The question is, why is Jindal even talking about this? 

The only reasonable assumption is that he's banking on the notion that going liberal on social issues is going to help his chances in 2016.

It's a cynical, craven position for this man to take, because it benefits no one but himself to make this argument at this time.  It's no different than Christie's sucking up to Obama right before the election. 

The R party is lost, and these are the men who would lead it. 

295 Potheads are far too lazy to grow their own, given that they could roll up to 7-11 and pick some up with their Ding Dongs. Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM!


Ding Dongs are no longer available in the US. Maybe a recipe that incorporates the Ding Dong and marijuana. One stop shopping!

296 The provincial know-nothing does get tiresome though. Jordon, Jon, and Olaf, the three dunces of the Obamaclypse.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 14, 2012 09:03 AM (evdj2)

 

Jon and Olaf are actually the same guy.   But    you left out toldyaso, which brings the total up to three again.

297 Sending our troops and missiles to Turkey scares the crap out of me. They're NATO, lord help us. It's predictable that we would be there.

298 Of course women should be encouraged to see their doctors if they have or suspect complications or simply want to be sure they'll be free of complications before they start a new pill regime. But that should not stop other women (most women) from easy and cheap access to safe medication.
**
CYA Gabe still missing the point.

Everyone has side effects and long term complications from pharmaceuticals. Calling drugs "safe medication" requires a screening process. "Other women, most women" don't need to consult their physician before ingesting drugs regularly over a period of decades? Like so many above have criticized, easy for a guy to say.

Admittedly, not every medical practitioner is going to take the time or interest in a patient's well being to discuss anything at the appointment coded visit. The doctor makes his appearance and before you can say squat, the doctor has already left the room. True enough, you'd get solid information regarding the chemical reactions from the pharmacist. But it's not the pharmacist's responsibility to know the customer's physical composition, where the particular patient's design differs from the "norm". And until a lot of research is conducted, we wouldn't know either. That's why we consult the physician in advance, prepared with questions for answers, and continue keeping up with the latest research and our bodies' alterations over time. Again, with the doctor's prescription, it's a simple phone call to get the renewal.

299 Just like it's possible to be an atheist and still read the works of religious individuals without acting like a dickbag. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 14, 2012 09:04 AM (4df7R) Frankly, I've never seen that work in practice.

300 "Jordan's one of our resident Paultards" You most definitely have me confused with some one else. No way, no how, not ever.

301 Freedom and property rights really do solve every complex social problem, even if people are too stupid and/or short-sighted to understand it. Posted by: Phinn at December 14, 2012 09:03 AM (oFH2D) I see your point, but until we gather the will to let people die from there own stupidity, and not scoop them up and spend billions in tax payer dollars saving their worthless hides, It's not a good idea.

302 "Why don't you try actually READING it, 3P" Because there's more good stuff to read than I have time for, and the Pope's opinion holds no special value for me (as I said, I don't spend much time on the Grand Ayatollah, either).

303 Jon and Olaf are actually the same guy. But you left out toldyaso, which brings the total up to three again. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 14, 2012 09:05 AM (4df7R) Don't forget Hector and He's a Mooslim.

304 Nope, but Obama is still your president.

Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 09:02 AM (Hz1zc)

 

Oh you silly little troll.      Obama is not anyone's President.        A President would actually, you know, be smart and shit.   Obama's got the intellectual     strength of a baked potato.  

 

He's the Preezy, not the President.     Which is why my respect for him is just below my respect for cockroaches.

305 I take your point, however. I swept too broadly when I said there was "simply no medical reason" to require a doctor's appointment. Thank you. The discussion as to whether a substance, be it hormonal birth control or valium or whatever, should be by prescription only or over the counter is very different indeed then claiming that there is no medical reason to require a doctor's appointment. While I am not wholly persuaded that oral hormonal contraceptives should be over the counter, I can see arguments for that being the case. However, as we've hashed out here over and over and over again, there are those *koffPlannedParenthoodkoff* who act as if there are no possible short or long term consequences to birth control pill use at all. A large part of my hesitancy for making them non-prescription is that this will add to the hey they are perfectly safe position. Having said that, I will agree that there are also valid reasons to say birth control pills should be OTC. As far as the concern that women won't get their annual exam and pap smear, guess what? The new standard is to only do a pap every three years because of some bullshit about how it's slow growing and it's viral based and annual tests aren't needed. Here we go with restricting testing. I vaguely recall something similar with prostate exams or the psa test for men as well.

306 the LIVs thought the GOP was out to ban birth control. actually policy positions are meaningless when the media is against you. if Jindal gets the nod you can bet many of those voting against him will think he wants to ban BC irregardless of anything he says. forget it morons, it's obamatown.

307 "Jordan's one of our resident Paultards"

You most definitely have me confused with some one else. No way, no how, not ever.

Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 09:06 AM (Hz1zc)

He's an Obozo loving douchebag. Brainless to the core. Ignorant of everything. In other words a typical liberal

308 285 But that should not stop other women (most women) from easy and cheap access to safe medication. Women currently have the same access to hormonal contraceptives as they have to asthma inhalers (the EPA took the non-prescription inhalers off the market last year). Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at December 14, 2012 09:01 AM (hO8IJ) Yep. I have asthma. I just had to have my annual physical so that I could get a script for my inhaler, which I could die without. And the inhaler costs me almost $50 a pop. How much is birth control again? Oh, that's right. Fricking cheap.

309 "Oh you silly little troll. Obama is not anyone's President. A President would actually, you know, be smart and shit. Obama's got the intellectual strength of a baked potato. " Like him or hate him, he is smart. Smart enough to beat the GOP handily. Twice.

310 So, now our government has guaranteed that the world will not end on Dec. 21.

Also, your taxes will not go up if you make less than $250,000 a year.

Also, if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor.

So, basically, the world is going to end on Dec. 21?

311 Because there's more good stuff to read than I have time for, and the Pope's opinion holds no special value for me (as I said, I don't spend much time on the Grand Ayatollah, either).

Posted by: Pope Pol Pot at December 14, 2012 09:06 AM (fjNx5)

Well then why don't you run off and read it.

312 The laws are technically still on the books, but have been rendered meaningless by other subsequently passed laws in other sections of the state's statutes. Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 14, 2012 09:07 AM (OWjjx) Not to mention case law that continues to pile up since the original statute was drafted, rendering it moot. I remain in awe of how little most people - usually the far opposite ends of each side of the political spectrum - know about how their government actually works.

313 Hey! It could be worse than Jindal, like McCain or Bob Depends or sumptin'...

314 He's-a-Mooslim is Ergastularius the Emptyhanded. Who is also the oddly horse-cum fixated fellow that gets TB3K'ed all the time.

315

As far as the concern that women won't get their annual exam and pap smear, guess what? The new standard is to only do a pap every three years because of some bullshit about how it's slow growing and it's viral based and annual tests aren't needed. Here we go with restricting testing. I vaguely recall something similar with prostate exams or the psa test for men as well.

 

Actually I just had one last week, and the doctor said it's now changed to once every FIVE years,   depending on your age and history.   

316 Oh really? What kind of tard are you?

317 Actually I just had one last week, and the doctor said it's now changed to once every FIVE years, depending on your age and history. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 14, 2012 09:11 AM (4df7R) And yet my doctor still finds it neccessary to shove his finger up my ass once a year.

318 Let's assume that the prescription system actually saves lives. Then what? We get the lovely side-effect of witnessing a multi-generational swell in the segment of the population that is too fucking stupid to tie its own shoelaces Posted by: Phinn at December 14, 2012 09:03 AM (oFH2D) But Brawndo has electrolytes!

319 Like him or hate him, he is smart. Objection, facts not in evidence. The SCoaMF does not have a single accomplishment of note that doesn't consist of a beauty contest. On the objective record, he's not even a National Merit Semi-Finalist, much less a scholarship winner.

320 see what Paul VI had to say about what the medical and especially moral effects of the Pill would be"

I don't actually give a shit.

Sorry.

Posted by: Pope Pol Pot at December 14, 2012 08:50 AM (fjNx5)

 

Of course you don't.  So much easier to stick your head up your ass.

321 Don't forget Hector and He's a Mooslim.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 14, 2012 09:07 AM (3Y7RV)

I thought Hector was the GOP has death camps for Hispanics nut. Wasn't he always going on about that? His aunt's third cousin 7 times removed was half Mexican and he's heard it 3rd hand from him about the GOP's effort to exterminate Hispanics

322 Yep. I have asthma. I just had to have my annual physical so that I could get a script for my inhaler, which I could die without. And the inhaler costs me almost $50 a pop. How much is birth control again? Oh, that's right. Fricking cheap.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at December 14, 2012 09:08 AM (qFpRI

 

I had to get a refill on my EpiPen, since I   go into anaphylactic shock if I    ingest anything with even a hint of peanut in it.    I've been to the hospital for it three times,   and that really should be more like six times.    I could absolutely die from it.

 

Cost of a two-pack of EpiPens?  (One for the purse, one for the house)  

 

$288.  

323 So, we have not had our quota of Bawney Frank socks which caused you to post this? Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 14, 2012 09:13 AM (OWjjx) You know, I thought about that as soon as I hit the post button, LOL

324 282 And he's wrong. Sometimes federalism isn't the right answer.
**

Federalism?!
federalism - the idea of a federal organization of more or less self-governing units; a union of states under a central government distinct from that of the separate states, who retain certain individual powers under the central government.

States Rights establishing our US Constitutional Republic, along with our Bill of Rights exist even in federalism, particularly -- acknowledged or not by politicians and vested interest groups, global corporatists.

325

>>You most definitely have me confused with some one else. No way, no how, not ever.Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 09:06 AM (Hz1zc)

Since confusion seems to be your natural area of expertise we'll take ceding you that point under advisement.

Now go try to find a short pier and take a leisurely stroll, we'll get back to you.

326 Like him or hate him, he is smart. Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 09:09 AM (Hz1zc) Smart? Do you have some actual proof of that? I dunno, college transcripts, SAT scores, scholarly papers? Any of that? You seem to be under the impression that winning a campaign makes you smart. It doesn't. Winning a campaign is a function of boatloads of money and the talent around you, not a function of the candidate. Just look at the Romney campaign for proof of that. Then again Obama's the guy who said the act of running for President meant he was qualified to be President. Let that sink in for a minute.

327 Like him or hate him, he is smart. Smart enough to beat the GOP handily. Twice.

Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 09:09 AM (Hz1zc)

 

Sweetie,   the DOPE is the Party of Stupid.  We all know it.   You're preaching to the choir if you're calling the majority of Republican   muckity-mucks idiots.

 

You've not produced any evidence that the Preezy is intelligent.   Please, I'm DYING to    know what proof you have.    By the way, how do you pronounce "corpsman?"

328 327 Yep. I have asthma. I just had to have my annual physical so that I could get a script for my inhaler, which I could die without. And the inhaler costs me almost $50 a pop. How much is birth control again? Oh, that's right. Fricking cheap. Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at December 14, 2012 09:08 AM (qFpRI I had to get a refill on my EpiPen, since I go into anaphylactic shock if I ingest anything with even a hint of peanut in it. I've been to the hospital for it three times, and that really should be more like six times. I could absolutely die from it. Cost of a two-pack of EpiPens? (One for the purse, one for the house) $288. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 14, 2012 09:14 AM (4df7R) Apparently, our desire to not die is not nearly as important as the desire to fuck like rabbits.

329 The Pope doesn't run the United States,

At least the Church is solvent.

330 So, basically, the world AS YOU KNEW IT is going to end on Dec. 21?

/FI

331 You most definitely have me confused with some one else. No way, no how, not ever.

Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 09:06 AM (Hz1zc)

 

Which part is wrong?   That you    support Ron Paul?   Or that you're a retard?    There can be only one.

332 At least the Church is solvent. Posted by: DaveA at December 14, 2012 09:17 AM (Xefrb) Hmm, good one.

333 And yet my doctor still finds it neccessary to shove his finger up my ass once a year.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 14, 2012 09:12 AM (3Y7RV)

If you don't come into the office, they WILL make a house call for that.

Barney Franks wants that OTC also.

334 On the other hand, I married a Catholic and I can tell you the GOP is opposed to Bingo.Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 14, 2012 09:15 AM (OWjjx) Damn anti-Bingoites!

335 324 see what Paul VI had to say about what the medical and especially moral effects of the Pill would be" I don't actually give a shit. Sorry. Posted by: Pope Pol Pot at December 14, 2012 08:50 AM (fjNx5) Translation - I eat paste

336 If you sold a revolver with a tag that said " do not point loaded weapon at your head and pull trigger" someone would do that.



But I just wanted to see what would happen!

337 Ah. Libtard. Same animal, different color.

338 Translation - I eat paste Posted by: Lurkasaurus at December 14, 2012 09:17 AM (33rkU) And Boogers.

339 I remember all the time we spent in law school studying the precedential value of Wikipedia. Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 14, 2012 09:02 AM (OWjjx) When I was teaching legal research, I told my students that any citation to Wikipedia would result in an immediate F on the project and they would not be able to make it up. They didn't believe me until I gave the entire class an F because every single one of them cited to Wikipedia in a project. That was some epic butthurt.

340

And don't get me started on the various things that ER docs have to remove from peoples' asses.

 

It was a million to one shot,  Doc.   Million to one!

341 You can tie your knees together for free.

You'd think with all the readily available porn demonstrations that "pull, spray and pray" would make a cum back.

342 AtC, there is actually good evidence to back up the 3 year Pap smear with certain criteria--multiple negative tests in the past, monogamous relationship, etc.--as well as the PSA.  We did do cost/benefit analysis before Obamacare started putting the screws to everyone.

343 Why does Nixon get more blame and shit for Vietnam than Kennedy and Johnson?

Posted by: General Woundwort at December 14, 2012 07:41 AM (RrD4h)

Does the phrase Nixon (R) give you a clue?

344

HeatherRadish:  "You have no idea how hormonal birth control works, do you?"

 

Well actually I do having had Organic Chem back in college.  But your insult withstanding, I had and have a greater point.

 

If you are concerned about every little ill informed girl,  good luck with that.  The answer is that parents should teach their little girls to keep their legs together and they should demand that their schools not pass out drugs.

 

You really have no idea how liberty works, do you. [Ducking and running]

345 "Smart? Do you have some actual proof of that? I dunno, college transcripts, SAT scores, scholarly papers? Any of that? " I think it would be difficult to reach his level of educational attainment without being reasonably intelligent. I feel the same way about George W. Bush. The academic rigor at places like Harvard or Yale is no joke.

346

Like him or hate him, he is smart. Smart enough to beat the GOP handily. Twice.

 

By that measure, Chimpy McBusHitler was one of the smartest men in America.

347 You can tie your knees together for free. I can't remember who, but someone said an aspirin would make great BC if you held it between your knees. He caught hell for tha comment.

348 "acknowledged or not"

...if a tree fell and no one heard it, did it make a noise...

"no one" or everything heard it? TGIF

Enjoy the weekend, moronians.

349 I think it would be difficult to reach his level of educational attainment without being reasonably intelligent. So, you gots nuthin'. Shocker.

350 They didn't believe me until I gave the entire class an F because every single one of them cited to Wikipedia in a project. That was some epic butthurt. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Tick tock tick tock. at December 14, 2012 09:18 AM (VtjlW) ::: swoon ::: Alex? Will you marry me?

351

When I was teaching legal research, I told my students that any citation to Wikipedia would result in an immediate F on the project and they would not be able to make it up. They didn't believe me until I gave the entire class an F because every single one of them cited to Wikipedia in a project. That was some epic butthurt.

 

That's the Imperial Stompyness we all know and love!

352 Because really, how could one question the intellectual rigor of the first Editor of the Harvard Law Review elected by popular vote rather than academics criteria? All those scholarly articles he wrote speak for themselves.

353 "So, you gots nuthin'. Shocker." Actually, I have his entire college transcript. It's in the same file where I keep the president's long form birth certificate.

354 When was the last time a Mormon set up an IED, or flew a plane into a skyscraper, or beheaded someone with a rusty hacksaw?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 14, 2012 08:54 AM (XkWWK)

 

Is this a trick question?  If you had replaced "Mormon" with "Lutheran" (Missouri Synod, not ELCA) you might get a completely  different answer.

355 I think it would be difficult to reach his level of educational attainment without being reasonably intelligent. Is that what you think? Bwahahahahahahahhaha!!!!!!!!!!! Stop! You're killing me!

356 >>The academic rigor at places like Harvard or Yale is no joke.
Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 09:20 AM (Hz1zc

Real humor there, taken in it's entirety.

357 Apparently, our desire to not die is not nearly as important as the desire to fuck like rabbits.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at December 14, 2012 09:16 AM (qFpRI)


If you are concerned about dying, they have a captive audience with respect to prescription prices.

If you key concern in life is about fucking like rabbits, you have pre-qualified for the FSA and you just needs you some more free stuff!

358 361 Is this a trick question? If you had replaced "Mormon" with "Lutheran" (Missouri Synod, not ELCA) you might get a completely different answer. Posted by: Ammo Dump at December 14, 2012 09:23 AM (YYyqq) It was indeed a trick question...

359

Like him or hate him, he is smart. Smart enough to beat the GOP handily. Twice.

 

You  might  win  the gold medal at the Special Olympics, but you're still a retard.

360 The allure of Credentialism is strong with the ungifted. Witness the K-12 system. It's hard to imagine an industry more lacking in objective success metrics, yet more populated by MA and PHD's.

361 351 -

The problem is, this "liberty" you seek doesn't stop with you allowing dumb people to make dumb decisions.  In our current version of it, "liberty" includes you having to pay for the consequences of all those dumb decisions, one way or another. 

You can have the heavy hand of government trying to keep people from doing dumb things, or you can have it collect the money from you afterwards, to pay for all the dumb invalids laying around collecting their checks so they can survive.

You can't choose neither.  So pick one. 

362 You might win the gold medal at the Special Olympics, but you're still a retard. Posted by: Lurking Canuck at December 14, 2012 09:26 AM (NF2Bf) As a person who has volunteered to work with the special olympics, I can assure you any of them could do no worse than Obama.

363 I think it would be difficult to reach his level of educational attainment without being reasonably intelligent. I feel the same way about George W. Bush. The academic rigor at places like Harvard or Yale is no joke.

Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 09:20 AM (Hz1zc)

 

We don't know what level of academic attainment the Affirmative Action Preezy actually reached, since he won't release his transcripts.   We DO know he never published a single legal article, despite being Editor of the most prestigious collegiate law journal, the Harvard     Law Review.   We also know he was never a professor, merely a lecturer, and that even though he supposedly taught "Constitutional law," he doesn't actually know jack shit about the Constitution.     

 

Oh, and apparently he's got the comprehension level of a concussed goat     since he was able to sit in Reverend Wright's church for twenty years, get married there, get buddy-buddy with the Reverend, and yet never ONCE hear ANYTHING that would imply Wright is a racist     black liberation theologist who believes in, "GodDAMN Amerikka!"     instead of "God BLESS America!"      And yet,    DESPITE    never actually hearing a word the Reverend ever  said, OBammy was STILL able to remember the term "Audacity of Hope," which Wright used for one of his many sermons, and made it the title of    one of his     memoirs of compressed people.   You know, the         one that was written by Bill Ayers.

 

Oh wait, that was both of them.

 

Still waiting on proof, dearie.    Oh, and while you're at it,     what continent does Hawaii belong to?

364 You can't choose neither. So pick one.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 14, 2012 09:27 AM (BeSEI)

I'll take Trial Lawyers for $50 million Alex!

365 The allure of Credentialism is strong with the ungifted. Witness the K-12 system. It's hard to imagine an industry more lacking in objective success metrics, yet more populated by MA and PHD's. Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 14, 2012 09:27 AM (evdj2) No Responsibilty, no accountability No expectations, no disappointments.

366

They didn't believe me until I gave the entire class an F because every single one of them cited to Wikipedia in a project. That was some epic butthurt. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Tick tock tick tock. at December 14, 2012 09:18 AM (VtjlW)

 

::: swoon :::

Alex? Will you marry me?

 

Posted by: Sean Bannion at December 14, 2012 09:22 AM (sbV1u)

 

 

Back off, Bannion.      I'm a diehard heterosexual, and     that story made me want to cohabitate the HELL out of AtC.

 

367 >>No Responsibilty, no accountability

No expectations, no disappointments.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 14, 2012 09:29 AM (3Y7RV)

Would you happen to know if they're currently looking for help?

368 I'm still waiting for this cocksucker to tell us if the Texas legislature is still in session.

369 The academic rigor at places like Harvard or Yale is no joke.Posted by: Jordan at December 14, 2012 09:20 AM (Hz1zc) Do you really want to go there? Really? I spent 4 years teaching at the university level in Boston living squarely between Harvard Square and MIT and watching this every day. Is that really what you think? You're not even remotely on the planet if you think. That's not a shocker to us since you post the most inane drivel of any troll. God lord, you're even stupider than Greg. Lemme put you some knowledge....the trick to the Ivies is getting in. That's it. It's assumed that once you're in, you're "smart." There is no follow-up. Once you're in, unless you're in the hard sciences, there is zero academic rigor. Zero. None. Spit back what the prof wants once a semester, don't deviate from your programming, and don't think outside the box. THAT is what it takes to get through Harvard. Get in and you're home free. If you don't think so, I'd be happy to have you sit down with the 15 Harvard and Yale alumni in my Faculty Senate who told me exactly the same thing over the course of my time at BU.

370 In SC anyone can get married at 18.  Parental consent required if under 18. Boys can get married at 16 and girls at 14.

http://south-carolina.usmarriagelaws.com/

371 Why didn't you come to me like a man and tell me the morning dump was here?

372 Are the trolls still being paid by OFA or is this something they do gratis  or out of habit?  Nowhere else to go?

373 I know. Barrel

374

As a person who has volunteered to work with the special olympics, I can assure you any of them could do no worse than Obama.

 

 

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet

 

 

I agree.  Indeed, I think most would do a better job, since  they actually know something about hard work.

 

[btw: I 'm sure it goes without saying  - and I know people around here aren't generally shrinking violets  -  but I certainly meant no offence  if any was taken.  I've worked with people with various mental disabilities and generally like them a lot more than the average human.  I just liked the joke....even though calling Obama a retard is sort of offensive to retarded people]

375 You can have the heavy hand of government trying to keep people from doing dumb things, or you can have it collect the money from you afterwards, to pay for all the dumb invalids laying around collecting their checks so they can survive.

You can't choose neither. So pick one.

We're paying for them anyway!

With your first option, we at least have (a) fewer stupid people (thanks, Darwin!) and (b) a more vibrant and successful and open economy.

Besides, you really need to wrap your head around something here -- rules like the State's prescription system do NOT exist to protect people.  The government would save far more lives by making roads safer.  They kill 100 people per day.  Or about 10,000 other things the government could be doing that it's not. 

But, no -- it just HAPPENS to spend its time and our money focusing on rules and programs and systems that JUST HAPPEN to shovel money into the hands of major campaign contributors.

This kind of "regulation" is a racket.  The "saving lives" angle is just a pretext.  A fig leaf.  A ruse to get well-meaning people (like you) to go along with the scheme. 

376 Back off, Bannion. I'm a diehard heterosexual, and that story made me want to cohabitate the HELL out of AtC. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 14, 2012 09:30 AM (4df7R) She's bi. We can share.

377 Time to go folks bb Monday

378

BurtTC, You give me two choices.  Get screwed now or later.  I reject your premise and I reject accepting the status quo.  

 

I will work to persuade those that the staus quo must change back to liberty.    I thought that is what we were commenting on, whether or not bc pills should be OTC.  I say yes. AND I say users deal with the consequences.

 

 

379 Back off, Bannion. I'm a diehard heterosexual, and that story made me want to cohabitate the HELL out of AtC. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 14, 2012 09:30 AM (4df7R) She's bi. We can share. Posted by: Sean Bannion at December 14, 2012 09:37 AM (sbV1u) Now, now, now, there's no need to fight. I'll just draw up a handy schedule. btw news dump is up

380 But NASA is still preparing for the return of the Twelfth Imam, aren't they?

381 Jindal opines about the most pressing matter on people's minds today: birth control.

And this is why we lose to Democrats the country is so fucked up.

FIFY

382 Grr... damn strikeout didn't display. 

383 would save far more lives by making roads safer. They kill 100 people per day.

We DO spend billions making the roads as safe as we know how everyday.  We also put ever smaller cars on roads with more big trucks because TEAMSTERS and GREENS.

384

To Brian Dennehy, much of what you say here is wrong:

CYA Gabe still missing the point.

Everyone has side effects and long term complications from pharmaceuticals. Calling drugs "safe medication" requires a screening process. "Other women, most women" don't need to consult their physician before ingesting drugs regularly over a period of decades? Like so many above have criticized, easy for a guy to say.

Admittedly, not every medical practitioner is going to take the time or interest in a patient's well being to discuss anything at the appointment coded visit. The doctor makes his appearance and before you can say squat, the doctor has already left the room. True enough, you'd get solid information regarding the chemical reactions from the pharmacist. But it's not the pharmacist's responsibility to know the customer's physical composition, where the particular patient's design differs from the "norm". And until a lot of research is conducted, we wouldn't know either. That's why we consult the physician in advance, prepared with questions for answers, and continue keeping up with the latest research and our bodies' alterations over time. Again, with the doctor's prescription, it's a simple phone call to get the renewal.

I'll start from your last thing first, but no it's not a simple phone call to get a renewal in most cases. It requires a doctor's exam.

More importantly, medical facts run counter to your claims and should be mentioned for the benefit of all in this discussion.

(1) Side effects risks of birth control are not statistically higher than for medications that are already over-the-counter, including Tylenol.

(2) Women are more likely to be aware of and discover possible complications than their own doctors during an exam. 

(3) Pharmacist evaluations for complications (putting the drug behind-the-counter) have also been shown to be as effective as clinical exams.

All of this information is publicly available. http://goo.gl/vADR4

385 I'm late coming back to this and haven't read most of the comments in the interim but... Tami, what was your point? Mine was that I, a normal adult, am capable of taking my own experiences and my family history into account without a doctor. Also, a with the same info would still have prescribed bc, so I doubt the status quo really prevents that many of bc's ill effects. It's like alcohol. I also stopped using that because my family history and my experience made it seem like a bad idea. I trust other adults to make the same choice, based on their religion or their own situation or whatever.

386 "AG Holder just spent those four years raiding and shutting down dispensaries".

They didn't pay the vig. LA/SF bay area(s) have hundreds and hundreds of MaryJane dispensaries.

I've seen - and incidentally - have been menaced by Latinio pot growers out in the boonies of the Sierra Nevada mountains. I might have been even more alarmed by the fact that they were staring me down jailhouse style if it weren't for the fact that I had a locked & loaded AR-15 on the jump-seat of my Jeep and a .380 sub compact on my hip.

Google earth: little north fork campground - plumas national forest - northern california. That campground is used as a staging point for illicit drug trafficking.

Legalize pot. I want my mountain playground back.

387 We DO spend billions making the roads as safe as we know how everyday.

Not true.  Sure, the government spends the untold billions on road construction, but not to make them "as safe as we know how." 

It's spent as a kind of massive make-work project.  It's guided by political decision-making, not economic decision-making.  Roads are built in locations and using designs that serve the interests of the most politically influential local bigwigs.  Try getting the DOT to put an exit ramp to benefit your property, and you'll see what kind of politicking you encounter.  It's a sinkhole of waste and inefficiency, just like everything else the government attempts to do.  The road-building industry has nothing to do with the public good (whatever that is), much less public safety.  

The technology exists to have virtually no traffic deaths, but it's not implemented, because the government has no economic information as to how to go about doing that.  They're still using 19th century technology -- streetlights -- for fuck's sake, coupled with 300 hp engines and 8-lane artery roads.  It's barbaric.

Plus, government control over the roads and transportation gives them control over the location, design and development of every house and business, which further increases their control over pretty much every aspect of economic life.  The only way to have even more control than that would be to control the money supply, which another branch of government does through the Fed. 

We'd all be better off if every single one of these governmental systems would be scrapped and replaced with a system of vigorous protection of private property and freedom -- prescriptions, roads, currency, etc. 

It's all a scam, and you're on the receiving end of it. 

388 Havent read tge comments but will insurance pay for OTC bc? Also there are a lot of side effects associated with hormone-based meds.

389 The question is, why is Jindal even talking about this?

The only reasonable assumption is that he's banking on the notion that going liberal on social issues is going to help his chances in 2016.

It's a cynical, craven position for this man to take, because it benefits no one but himself to make this argument at this time. It's no different than Christie's sucking up to Obama right before the election.

The R party is lost, and these are the men who would lead it.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 14, 2012 09:05 AM (BeSEI)

 

Nothing cynical or craven about Jindal's position. Jindal is thinking and acting strategically. He's nullifying and negating potential attack lines in advance, as simple as advancing one's pawn to the center as a first move in chess. The MSM won't be able to portray him as a contraception extremist. And yes, it's far different from Christie's sucking up to Obama, which was something of a nonsequitur on your part. And insofar as Christie is concerned, he sucked up to President Obama in order to get as much federal money as he could for the devastated Jersey coastal areas, and he did it even though he knew doing so would alienate and anger the GOP base and probably kill his chances for the 2016 GOP nomination. I don't agree with Christie's actions, and think he could've helped his state just as much by not embracing Obama, but I understand why he did what he did.

 

I like having GOP leaders such as Jindal and Christie. They're made of good stuff, superior in just about every measure to anyone the Democrats can field.

390 Amazing, with all the problems we have, birth control is what Jindal wants to talk about?

391 Seriously? Over-the-counter hormones?

Dude, within hours they would be snarfed up by gehs who think female hormones will make them gehyer.

And silly girls who think they would get bigger hooters. Not that that would be all bad.

392 352   The academic rigor at places like Harvard or Yale is no joke.

It is for affirmative-action admittees. Oh, it is. I've worked with the end product.

393 > Amazing, with all the problems we have, birth control is what Jindal wants to talk about?

It's impossible for people to possibly work on/think about more than one issue until it's resolved.  It's fucking science!

394 Amazing, with all the problems we have, birth control is what Jindal wants to talk about?

Posted by: KG at December 14, 2012 10:34 AM (p7BzH)

 

Jindal is defusing the Democrats' 'war on women' strategy in advance. You know, the strategy Republicans laughed at until it came back and bit them on the ass on election day, when the women's vote proved decisive. What is it about that you don't understand?

395

I wish that I could agree, but I have to strongly disagree with this statement: "Second, as a practical matter, there is simply no reason, medical or moral, that oral contraceptives should require a doctors visit."

A large number of (caucasian) people have genetic blood clotting disorders (on the order of 5-10%, at least) that already increase their chances of pulmonary embolysm (PE), stroke, and deep vein thrombosis (DVT). Hormonal birth control also and independently increases clotting. The heightened risk of these two effects makes it medically irresponsible to be on birth control pills.

Not to mention all of the other reasons for not making hormones available over the counter.

396 "Mine was that I, a normal adult, am capable of taking my own experiences and my family history into account without a doctor."



===============


Yeah, except for your DAD.....no doctor at all.  Nada, zip, zilch.



So you think a whole lot of current prescription drugs should be OTC?  Thyroid medicine, diabetes medicine, asthma medicine?


Where do YOU draw the line for requiring a doctor's script?

397 Tami i got bc first of all from a doc who was not my dad. My dad later, when i converted and then again after my fourth kid was born, made a point of telling me that he---a doctor himself---was very concerned and wanted me to know that he would prescribe bc if I asked him to, in case insurance was a thing. The doctor who delivered my last kid also offered to prescribe bc. So no. Not just my dad, but my dad would actually be more concerned about possible side effects than a doc who isn't on the hook for helping raise my kids if I have a stroke, I would think.

398 And yes I think most drugs should be OTC for adults. I want to say that those which could be easily added to drinks for bad purposes should be unavailable, but im not too sure how that would work, as you could kill someone by adding cleaners or tylenol to their water, too. Pharmacists should be free to set their own standards, too, with some drugs.

399 Oh i think i misread you tami...i never spoke to my dad, ever, about bc until after i converted and he brought it up. I heard bc ads on tv mention that women with high bp shouldn't take the pill, knew that my mom and aunts had dangerously high bp and put that together with my own experience.

400 In related news, tin foil sales at an all-time high.

401 Really this whole thing is silly. I do think bc is dangerous for many women and just miserable for lots more. But I also think cigarettes are more dangerous, and smellier too, and yet I have no interest in stopping adults from using them either by ban or by red tape mazes. What I want re birth control is better education, more information available abiut why nfp is awesome and why barrier methods are better than hormonal bc (though both kind of suck).

402 I'll bet anyone any amount of money that the world does not end on Dec 21st.

If I lose, you can collect next Monday on the 24th.

403 29 You know, it's called weed for a reason. Who gives a shit if it's legal when all you really need is a seed, some dirt, and a little patience. Oh right, lazy liberals need it legal first before they can force me to share my stash, right.
Posted by: mugiwara

You probably think you can make wine by stomping on grapes and letting them ferment.  Yeah, sure, you can just throw seeds in the dirt and harvest what grows, but that's the equivalent of near beer.  Here's a clue:  no one buys ditch weed if they don't have to.

404 Translation: I need cover for my Presidential run because I have the same position as Akin, that there should be no abortion exception for rape victims.

I like many things about Jindal, but unless he "flip flops" on the "no exception" position, he'll be dead in the water in a national campaign. 

It would be easy fro him to do, he can simply say morally he's still opposed but he would compromise and instead focus on the 99% of abortions that have nothing to do with rape.

405 When I was teaching legal research, I told my students that any citation to Wikipedia would result in an immediate F on the project and they would not be able to make it up. They didn't believe me until I gave the entire class an F because every single one of them cited to Wikipedia in a project. That was some epic butthurt. Posted by: alexthechick

I have a case where opposing counsel cited Wikipedia.  I almost considered editing the cite ("nonrecourse loans") to specifically exclude this situation, but in the end it didn't get that far.

406 Why not make all drugs available at pharmacies without prescriptions?  That's the case in Italy, and it seems to work OK.  In America, Dr's tend to prescribe  meds because the pharmaceutical rep gave the best blow job.

407 I'm not a doctor, but it is my understanding that birth control pills vary in their dosage and formulation and that finding the right pill for a particular woman can involve a bit of trial and error.

I've no "moral" qualms about birth control being over the counter, but I do have concerns that women will be harmed if they're expected to find the right pill for them without being able to rely on the expertise of a physician.

Jindal makes no friends on the busybody right with this, which is a good thing if you ask me.

408 "When I was teaching legal research, I told my students that any citation to Wikipedia would result in an immediate F on the project" Then you failed as a teacher. The proper thing to teach would be to use Wikipedia (and ANY OTHER SOURCE) with skepticism. Many Wikipedia articles are properly cited, with links to the original sources. Others aren't. You have to use your brain to figure out which ones are which. Blanket rules like "don't use Wikipedia" teach them to follow rules like a robot, not how to use their heads.

409 "he answer is that parents should teach their little girls to keep their legs together" You aren't going to "teach" teenagers not to fuck. That's a fantasy. It's never been the case, and it never will be the case. The way the problem used to be solved was by getting them married at 14.

410 "Of course you don't. So much easier to stick your head up your ass." You just don't get it, do you? The Pope's opinion is of no more value to me than that of any other random person (i.e., zero). Sorry, but that's the way it is.

411 "You have to use your brain to figure out which ones are which." The white smoke rises, indicating that another random, apathetic tourist in Rome has been pulled from the tour bus and shoved into office.

412 414 Why not make all drugs available at pharmacies without prescriptions? That's the case in Italy, and it seems to work OK. In America, Dr's tend to prescribe meds because the pharmaceutical rep gave the best blow job. It's true -- pharmacy reps give pretty good blow jobs.

413 "The white smoke rises, indicating that another random, apathetic tourist in Rome has been pulled from the tour bus and shoved into office. " Or maybe just some murdering fuckhead with 9 or 10 illegitimate children.

414 With respect to Wikipedia and legal research: I'm not a lawyer, but I was involved peripherally with a bogus patent case in an area where I have some technical expertise. When the bogus patent was issued I (along with many others) created a Wikipedia page on the technology, which was extensively linked and referenced. The legal team that got the patent overturned used that page extensively. I know this because I know one of the lawyers involved. Did they cite Wikipedia in court? Of course not. However, the references on that page saved them the months of time and tons of money they would have spent to locate and find all those technical references. The patent was not just overturned, but bitchslapped. Good thing those lawyers didn't go to the alexthechick School of Approved Legal Research Methods, eh?

415 I'm still down as a real pope, by the way. I'm not an "antipope" or anything like that. Which means that my moral POV is just as valid as that of Paul VI, at least as far as the Catholic Church is involved.

416 At the slightest perceived knock on your pride, the mask drops and the venom spews out on a target whose ability to defend its own views you have denied by your willful ignorance?

417

Good thing those lawyers didn't go to the alexthechick School of Approved Legal Research Methods, eh?


Citation means you're treating the cite as an authoritative source.  Wiki is not and will never be such a thing, any more than you should cite www.google.com as a source. 

Not being able to cite a website as a source is a different issue than using it as a research tool.   If you can't grasp the difference, it's a good thing you're not a lawyer, eh?   

418 We already sell birth control over the counter. It's called condoms. Heck, people these days can get condoms for free. I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with this. This is a slippery slope. It IS important to get a prescription. Your doctor will know what types, dosage, etc, is best for you. I can't go into CVS to buy Benadryl without filling out a form, but some 12 year old is going to be able to buy the day after pill, no questions asked? I may be in the LIB camp, but for us to go full blown, "Eh, do whatever you want" is not the correct response either.

419 ... google "bobby jindal birth control" ... or you could use a Non-Evil search engine. :wq!

420 How about politicians butt out of healthcare issues all together and leave it to medical professionals?  I'm sick of the uneducated acting like experts on matters they know nothing about.