Ace of Spades HQ

May 29, 2012

Top Headline Comments 5-29-12
— Gabriel Malor

Happy Tuesday. I hope you had a good holiday weekend.

In the news...

The Google Street View scandal isn't what you think it is, owing to bad reporting. Journalists haven't got a clue what Google did, so you see sensationalist reporting like the Daily Mail piece that RD linked yesterday, which claims that Google "downloaded" emails, text messages, photographs and documents from unlocked wi-fi networks. That word "downloaded" is a gross mischaracterization because it implies that Google went into unlocked systems and took the data; in other words, a virtual trespass.

In fact, what Google did was simply record everything that unlocked wifi networks transmitted while the Google Street View car was in range (see also the FCC report). Those unlocked transmissions may have contained emails, text messages, photographs and documents, or they may not. But no trespass was required. The users were broadcasting that data to the world, unlocked and unprotected. If you're yelling out the window at your kids, I'm perfectly within my rights to hear you if I'm standing on the sidewalk. And that's just what Google did.

Speaking of dumb journalists, the BBC apologizes for using a logo from Halo's United Nations Space Command instead of of the actual UN logo during a broadcast about the Syrian atrocities.

Romney on the support of Birther Trump: "You know I donÂ’t agree with all the people who support me and my guess is they donÂ’t all agree with everything I believe in. . . . But I need to get 50.1 percent or more and I'm appreciative to have the help of a lot of good people."

Erick Erickson has more to say on SWATting.

TalkLeft's Jeralyn Merritt, a defense attorney of some repute, reviews the Zimmerman evidence and provides the "most likely scenario" for what she believes happened. It is what you think it is.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at 02:46 AM | Comments (750)
Post contains 316 words, total size 3 kb.

1 Good Morning Morons. Today is Tuesday, May 29, 2012. We get back to normal today and my daily afternoon drive to the city. On this day on 1765 Patrick Henry gave his famous Â“give me liberty or give me deathÂ” in relation to the Stamp Act.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 02:47 AM (YdQQY)

2 Romney will clinch the nomination today. Hell, I thought he had already clinched it.

http://is.gd/DQ4YL6

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 02:48 AM (YdQQY)

3 U.S. threatening force against Syria. I say we donÂ’t have a dog in that hunt.

http://is.gd/P2fUd0

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 02:48 AM (YdQQY)

4 As if we didnÂ’t have enough to worry about. The Southeast is being infested with a new species of ticks from South America.

http://is.gd/9KXbS7

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 02:48 AM (YdQQY)

5 DHS is monitoring you with word mining software looking for conversations critical of the government. But it is all Â“innocentÂ” monitoring. Just another one of those things to chalk up to Â“what ifÂ”.

http://is.gd/E9rS0b

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 02:49 AM (YdQQY)

6 Senators want Romney to pick a Senator as VP. Of course, the main home of the RINO would like another Â“moderateÂ”. I say they are full of shit. He needs an ex-governor from the SE or SW who is a strong conservative. These idiots are worried about shoring up swing States. They better be worried about keeping the base in line. Besides that, mushy moderates are not a good way to generate Â“enthusiasmÂ” in swing States.

http://is.gd/AvvxG5

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 02:49 AM (YdQQY)

7 Just what we need, obamanites and congressional allies seek to expand the already dysfunctional visa program to encourage Â“foreign tourismÂ”. I say piss on that.

http://is.gd/3fkG9r

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 02:49 AM (YdQQY)

8 Anarchist goons threaten attacks during the Olympics in London. It is time to crack down on these assholes.

http://is.gd/21C52w

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 02:50 AM (YdQQY)

9 >> But I need to get 50.1 percent or more So we finally did away with that pesky electoral college?

Posted by: Andy at May 29, 2012 02:50 AM (XG+Mn)

10 This is the kind of lying spin that you can expect to see more and more of as we near November.

Fewer Americans draw on federal relief programs

Unsaid is why it is decreasing. It sure as hell is not the economy recovering. More likely because the benefits have expired.

http://is.gd/sFZDGM

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 02:50 AM (YdQQY)

11 This is what happens when a university produces a study that the eco-commies donÂ’t like.

http://is.gd/u6kQdm

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 02:51 AM (YdQQY)

12 When you control the Senate you can schedule bullshit votes purely for political hay. Reid scheduled the Pay Check Fairness Act vote. We all know their Â“studyÂ” is full of shit. Women have been shown to make the same as men, and possibly even slightly higher, when all factors are accounted for. Ladies if you feel like you are making less than men, then work the same number of hours that men do.

http://is.gd/YRP0yg

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 02:51 AM (YdQQY)

13 Well, thatÂ’s it for news. Its like Monday, slow news day.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 02:51 AM (YdQQY)

14 Good morning, slack-jawed yokels.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 29, 2012 02:52 AM (JDIKC)

15 If you're yelling out the window at your kids, I'm perfectly within my rights to hear you if I'm standing on the sidewalk. And that's just what Google did.

I thought we had settled that question yesterday. The electronic privacy act of 1986 makes that illegal.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 02:53 AM (YdQQY)

16 Thanks for the early morning update Gabe and Vic

Posted by: zeera at May 29, 2012 02:55 AM (XtxRN)

17 The Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986 (ECPA, Pub.L. 99-508, 100 Stat. 1848, enacted October 21, 1986, codified at 18 U.S.C. Â§Â§ 2510Â–2522) was enacted by the United States Congress to extend government restrictions on wire taps from telephone calls to include transmissions of electronic data by computer. Specifically, ECPA was an amendment to Title III of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Stree

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 02:57 AM (YdQQY)

18 The question for the government is why hasn't Google been charged under the act?

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 03:02 AM (YdQQY)

19 @18. This administration and Google? Too busy giving each other reach arounds.

Posted by: teej at May 29, 2012 03:05 AM (sbimF)

If I write special software to be used on custom equipment to intercept a transmission that begins and terminates in your house, I am perfectly within my rights to pilfer whatever I can from you while I'm cruising by your house, taking pictures of you through your window.

Yep. Nothing to see, here.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 29, 2012 03:09 AM (JDIKC)

21 "So we finally did away with that pesky electoral college?

Posted by: Andy at May 29, 2012 06:50 AM (XG+Mn) "

You don't need 50.1 percent or more of the electoral vote to win?

Posted by: lowandslow at May 29, 2012 03:11 AM (GZitp)

22 From our telemetry, looks like you're out of yeast infection cream. Visit Vagi-Kleen and enter promo code STREETVIEW for special internet pricing!

Posted by: Google Street View at May 29, 2012 03:14 AM (JDIKC)

23 You don't need 50.1 percent or more of the electoral vote to win?
Posted by: lowandslow
......
Ask Al Gore that question...

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at May 29, 2012 03:16 AM (UTq/I)

24 I'm sure its against the letter of the law to drive by and receive 802.11 signals just as everything you could possibly do in life is against some federal statute. But that same law says "or cause to be intercepted". So why isn't it just as against the law to operate any router that isn't password protected? If you broadcast, you are causing it to be heard. What will likely happen is google would be prosecuted, then lose, then appeal and the higher court would determine if just driving down the street and picking up a signal for the 1 second or less that you're in range is sufficient to be guilty. (All opinion from someone with no law background, except breaking some every now and again)

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 03:19 AM (cWkOB)

25 50.1% of the electoral college vote to win?

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 03:20 AM (O3R/2)

26 14 Good morning, slack-jawed yokels.

Well, howdy, cuz.

Posted by: Cletus at May 29, 2012 03:25 AM (YXmuI)

27 It is against the law to intercept these communications and to release them. The law was originally intended to protect cell phone usage and the cell phone providers pressured congress for the act. It was later expanded to include computer broadcasts.

They do not prosecute unless you intercept the communication and then release the information. If you don't release the info how can they tell you intercepted it?

The only case I know of where they prosecuted was when someone monitored and recorded cell phone conversation with Newt Gingrich when he was Speaker of the House. The released it to a newspaper, who of course published it.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 03:26 AM (YdQQY)

28 "50.1% of the electoral college vote to win?"

Actually it's about 50.19% to get to 270. Happy now?

Posted by: lowandslow at May 29, 2012 03:27 AM (GZitp)

And now, even NOT doing something is against a federal statute. Next up --> thought crimes. That is, unless we already have them.

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 03:28 AM (cWkOB)

30 Vic, there is a story in the Hill http://tinyurl.com/7d62ogz saying that the Mooch is "sponsoring" the first all female submarine. Of course, the story is completely false there is NO all female sub being assembled for 2015. However, the current regime has been trying to get the Navy to take the 12 female submariners who have been picked and celebrate them past where the men are celebrated. That's where this ridiculous story comes from. In the comments to the above story, the submarine PAO is explaining it's falisies.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 03:30 AM (Z5iSP)

31 >> Actually it's about 50.19% to get to 270. Happy now?

Yes, that's better.

Posted by: Andy at May 29, 2012 03:31 AM (XG+Mn)

32 Ugh it's =its. Not awake yet.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 03:32 AM (Z5iSP)

33 Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 07:30 AM (Z5iSP)

Actually there is even more BS in that story. They talk about another ship she sponsored based in Alameda, CA, The Navy shut that base down long ago.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 03:33 AM (YdQQY)

34 (sob) Leave Eric Holder alone!

Posted by: John "Studly" Boehner at May 29, 2012 03:34 AM (IoNBC)

OK, Gabe...so I presume that you'd have no problem whatsoever if I listen in on your cell phone calls.

Posted by: JohnTant at May 29, 2012 03:38 AM (tVWQB)

36 Is there a law in Florida against a cop, (or anyone, for that matter) emptying his gun into an unarmed zombie that is biting the face off another man? Just wondering if Al and Jesse will be back.

Posted by: Case at May 29, 2012 03:38 AM (ZPlWT)

37 Actually, I can recall several news items about folks being prosecuted for theft of services (I think) when they piggybacked on an open AP. I remember one guy was arrested when he sat outside a library at a bus stop checking his email; The police said he was not a library patron and hauled him away. Google is very much in bed with domestic intelligence in the USA.

Posted by: Daybrother at May 29, 2012 03:38 AM (QwYhZ)

38 Anybody see the report in the Guardian about the Flamer worm that's been sitting in Iran's computers for the past 2 years undetected until recently? We're not totally incompetent after all.

Posted by: Alice's Clone Army at May 29, 2012 03:40 AM (x1o3A)

39 I don't know if anybody noticed it yesterday but codger asshole Dick Lugar showed the wisdom of Indiana primary voters by acting like an entitled fuckhead and stating he wouldn't campaign for Richard Mourdock. Since that addled cocksucker was known as the JEF's favorite Repuke I'm not sure what positive he could've brought to the table but I fully count on him to assist his fellow lame-duck shitstain in trying to bend the country over a few more times between November and Romney's inauguration.

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 29, 2012 03:40 AM (7Ph7Z)

40 BTW folks, at the same time they made it illegal to intercept communications they made it illegal to manufacture and sell to civilians radios that will pick up the cell phone frequency spectrum.

I have one of the last ICOM receivers which will pick up continuous coverage from 30MHz to 2 GHz.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 03:41 AM (YdQQY)

41 38 Anybody see the report in the Guardian about the Flamer worm that's been sitting in Iran's computers for the past 2 years undetected until recently? We're not totally incompetent after all. Posted by: Alice's Clone Army It was found by accident when someone Googled "Iran+computer+sabotage"

Posted by: Daybrother at May 29, 2012 03:42 AM (QwYhZ)

42 I'm off to vote in the primary in about an hour.

I'll be voting Ted Cruz to be the Republican nominee for the United States Senate.

Otherwise...279th look at Rick Perry?

Posted by: Robert at May 29, 2012 03:42 AM (4ixH5)

43 Mornin, fellow retards.

Posted by: Truman North, iPhone snob at May 29, 2012 03:43 AM (I2LwF)

44 OK, Gabe...so I presume that you'd have no problem whatsoever if I listen in on your cell phone calls.

Posted by: JohnTant at May 29, 2012 07:38 AM (tVWQB)

-----

You might already techncally be listening in. If two bluetooth enabled cell phones pass each other, they know of the others existence. Also, wouldn't the wifi finders be illegal?

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 03:43 AM (cWkOB)

@ Vic,

I had a First Sergeant who continually listened in on cell phone conversations with a handheld scanner. I asked him who he listened in on and he said, "Oh, anybody. You wouldn't believe some of the things people say when they think nobody can hear them."

Ugh. I still get the jimmy-jams when I think of that creepy motherfucker.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 29, 2012 03:43 AM (JDIKC)

46 Vic and others, the FCC even admits what Google did may not be illegal. The Wiretap Act provides, "It shall *not be unlawful*under this chapter or chapter 121 of this title for any person to intercept or access an electronic communication made through an electronic communication system that is configured so that such electronic communication is readily accessible to the general public." Again, if you're telling into the street, it's not unlawful for me to hear you, record you, and try and make a buck off of it.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at May 29, 2012 03:46 AM (tZ6d2)

47 Back in my teen years, we would listen to a Bearcat scanner and pick up cell phone calls. In those days you had to call an operator and tell her the number you wanted (primitive!) so one day we were listening for the number and then we'd hurry and dial it so it would be busy. The operator would come back to the guy and say, its busy, and we'd laugh because we caused it. It was fun for a few minutes.

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 03:47 AM (cWkOB)

48 Hello fellow mouth-breathers.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 03:47 AM (O3R/2)

49 Ugh. I still get the jimmy-jams when I think of that creepy motherfucker.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 29, 2012 07:43 AM (JDIKC)

Well not to worry, because the new generation of cell phones is all digital packets and does frequency skipping. It is almost impossible to monitor them unless you have a programmed receiver with the necessary algorithms.

Note that the government requires the cell phone providers to give them those algorithms.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 03:47 AM (YdQQY)

50 Anybody see the report in the Guardian about the Flamer worm that's been sitting in Iran's computers for the past 2 years undetected until recently? We're not totally incompetent after all.

Posted by: Alice's Clone Army at May 29, 2012 07:40 AM (x1o3A)

What's this 'we' crap?

Posted by: Mossad at May 29, 2012 03:47 AM (X6akg)

51 43 Yaaayyyyyyyyyyy!!!

Posted by: Corky the Retard at May 29, 2012 03:49 AM (5av/W)

52 Again, if you're telling into the street, it's not unlawful for me to hear you, record you, and try and make a buck off of it.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at May 29, 2012 07:46 AM (tZ6d2)

The fly in your ointment is that a WiFi signal isn't "configured so that such electronic communication is readily accessible to the general public," for a multitude of reasons...among which are range, intent, and the equipment necessary to receive (and use) the signal.

Posted by: JohnTant at May 29, 2012 03:50 AM (tVWQB)

53 "Romney on the support of Birther Trump: "You know I donÂ’t agree with all the people who support me and my guess is they donÂ’t all agree with everything I believe in. . . . But I need to get 50.1 percent or more and I'm appreciative to have the help of a lot of good people."" ----------- This is why it bothered me that George Will actually wasted oxygen to do a hit job on Trump. I think, just like Debbie Wasserface, Al NotSoSharpton, even Bill Ayers, etc, have a purpose for Obama's administration and campaign fund raising, no matter how idiotic they sound. They reach into other voters beliefs and minds. If Trump pushes this meme - whether he believes it or not, just like Arpaio, it serves a purpose. Getting Obama out. Even a few 100 or 1000 votes may be what tips the scales. This is the tactic of the left. I don't mind swimming with the sharks if it takes Obama out as a result.

Posted by: Get in their faces! at May 29, 2012 03:50 AM (HOOye)

54 I presume that you'd have no problem whatsoever if I listen in on your cell phone calls. ----------------- You bet!

Posted by: Every Woman in the Checkout Line at Food Lion at May 29, 2012 03:51 AM (gPDxp)

55 Google is just, you know, helping a brother out.

Posted by: Skynet at May 29, 2012 03:51 AM (JnsbK)

56 Again, if you're telling into the street, it's not unlawful for me to hear you, record you, and try and make a buck off of it.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at May 29, 2012 07:46 AM (tZ6d2)

The FCC is conventionally lying for Google's benefit. Reasonably accessible does not mean picking up broadcasts. That was the point of the entire law. This is no different than intercepting a cell phone call.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 03:52 AM (YdQQY)

57 "Google Â“likelyÂ” breached a U.S. federal criminal statute in connection with its accidental Wi-Fi sniffing Â— but not for siphoning private data from internet surfers using unsecured networks, a former federal prosecutor said Tuesday. Ironically, says former prosecutor Paul Ohm, itÂ’s likely Google did not violate wiretap regulations, but instead might have breached the Pen Register and Trap and Traces Device Act for intercepting the metadata and address information alongside the content. Â“I think itÂ’s likely they committed a criminal misdemeanor of the Pen Register and Trap and Traces Device Act,Â” said Ohm, a prosecutor from 2001 to 2005 in the Justice DepartmentÂ’s Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section. Â“For every packet they intercepted, not only did they get the content, they also have your IP address and destination IP address that they intercepted. The e-mail message from you to somebody else, the Â‘toÂ’ and Â‘fromÂ’ line is also intercepted.Â” Â“This is a huge irony, that this might come down to the non-content they acquired,Â” (.pdf) said Ohm, a professor at the University of Colorado School of Law." ...Wired

Posted by: Daybrother at May 29, 2012 03:55 AM (QwYhZ)

58 BTW Gabe, that provision in the law was added to fix a problem in which commercial radio broadcasts could be legally monitored.

As the law was originally written it was illegal to listen to the radio.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 03:56 AM (YdQQY)

59 Didn't some Donks pick up a cell phone conversation Newt had made some years ago, then told the world about it? Nothing happened to them.

Posted by: Case at May 29, 2012 03:57 AM (ZPlWT)

60 Didn't some Donks pick upa cell phone conversation Newt had madesome years ago, then told the world about it? Nothing happened to them.

Posted by: Case at May 29, 2012 07:57 AM (ZPlWT)

I posted on that up thread. It wasn't "Dems per se". Some private citizens intercepted it and recorded it and released it to a newspaper who published it.

They were charged.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 03:58 AM (YdQQY)

61 " Nothing happened to them." Something did happen to them.

Posted by: Daybrother at May 29, 2012 03:58 AM (QwYhZ)

62 Wi-fi packets are "readily accessible to the general public". Really?

Posted by: Andy at May 29, 2012 03:58 AM (XG+Mn)

63 BTW folks, at the same time they made it illegal to intercept communications they made it illegal to manufacture and sell to civilians radios that will pick up the cell phone frequency spectrum. That seriously overstates what's illegal. I have a radio that will pick up cell phone frequency spectrum in my pocket, and so does almost everyone else in the country. We call them cell phones and they really are amazing little beasties. You'd be amazed at some of the apps I've got that will isolate and identify radio signals, including cell and wifi transmissions. The fly in your ointment is that a WiFi signal isn't "configured so that such electronic communication is readily accessible to the general public," for a multitude of reasons...among which are range, intent, and the equipment necessary to receive (and use) the signal. A wifi signal broadcasting unlocked transmissions to a radius that includes public streets is absolutely configured so as to be "readily accessible to the general public."

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at May 29, 2012 03:59 AM (tZ6d2)

64 Pretty good war pron from Jawa:

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/212459.php

Posted by: momma at May 29, 2012 04:01 AM (oKsWl)

65 That seriously overstates what's illegal.

Gabe that is picking at gnats. Yes, technically a cell phone is a "radio", but 99.9% of the public doesn't consider it such. It is a phone.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 04:01 AM (YdQQY)

66 Oh yeah, good morning all. Still super hot and dry here in cow-patty section of Ohio!

Posted by: momma at May 29, 2012 04:01 AM (oKsWl)

67 In lots of states it's illegal to record a conversation you're a party to without the other party's knowledge, but what Google did here is fine.

OK. Yeah. I see that.

Posted by: Andy at May 29, 2012 04:03 AM (XG+Mn)

68 Gabe, I am glad you are so trusting of your government and the FCC.

Keep in mind why FDR made the FCC to begin with.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 04:03 AM (YdQQY)

69 Congressman Allen West speaks at the Boynton Beach Memorial Day Observance May 27, 2012:

http://tinyurl.com/d9kbd3h

Posted by: momma at May 29, 2012 04:06 AM (oKsWl)

70 really? the general public have ready access to packet scanners? the things i learn here. wouldn't taking a squishy moderate senator for veep that can be replaced by a more reliable conservative vote a win?

Posted by: errhead at May 29, 2012 04:07 AM (VlSqZ)

71 In the movies, the bad guys are frequently worried about talking on cell phones and move their conversations to land lines. Of course nowadays, it's hard to find a land line pay phone.

More than a few jihadis met their maker after using cell phones, so it's not all bad.

Leaving your wifi network unlocked is dumb no matter what the law says.

As a side question, does anyone know how you can safely use a public network to pay bills with?

Posted by: GnuBreed at May 29, 2012 04:09 AM (ccXZP)

72 Google is just the default. If you'd rather have your privacy invaded by Yahoo or Bing, you need to change it in network>router>surveillance>settings.

Posted by: nickless at May 29, 2012 04:11 AM (MMC8r)

73 wouldn't taking a squishy moderate senator for veep that can be replaced by a more reliable conservative vote a win?

Posted by: errhead at May 29, 2012 08:07 AM (VlSqZ)

Not if it resulted in Ovomit being reelected. And getting a conservative in their place is certainly not guaranteed. If it was, we wouldn't have the squishy moderate there to begin with.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 04:11 AM (YdQQY)

74 Little Johnnie's Weekend Assignment

The kids filed into class Monday morning. They were very excited. Their weekend assignment was to sell something, then give a talk on productive salesmanship.

Little Sally led off: "I sold girl scout cookies and I made $30" she said proudly, "My sales approach was to appeal to the customer's civil spirit and I credit that approach for my obvious success."
"Very good, Sally" said the teacher.

Little Jenny was next, "I sold magazines" she said, "I made $45 and I explained to everyone that magazines would keep them up on current events."
"Very good, Jenny" said the teacher..

Eventually, it was Johnny's turn. The teacher held her breath, as Johnny always had a 'different' take on things.
Johnny walked to the front of the classroom and dumped a box full of cash on the teacher's desk. "$2,467" he said. "$2,467!" cried the teacher,

"What in the world were you selling?"
Toothbrushes" said Johnny.

"Toothbrushes" echoed the teacher, "How could you possibly sell enough tooth brushes to make that much money?"

"I found the busiest corner in town" said Johnny, "I set up a Dip & Chip stand, I gave everybody who walked by a free sample." They all said the same thing, "Hey, this tastes like dog crap!" Then I would say, "It is dog crap. Wanna buy a toothbrush? I used the President Obama method of giving you something crappy, dressing it up so it looks good, telling you it's free, and then making you pay to get the bad taste out of your mouth."

Johnny got five stars for his efforts, bless his little heart...

Posted by: chain mail at May 29, 2012 04:12 AM (jPE04)

75 As a side question, does anyone know how you can safely use a public network to pay bills with?

Posted by: GnuBreed at May 29, 2012 08:09 AM (ccXZP)

Most companies that do that have a 64 bit encrypted system. I have been doing that for years. Hell, every time you put in an order with Amazon with a credit card you are doing that.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 04:13 AM (YdQQY)

76 An elderly lady was walking on the golf course on the island of Martha's Vineyard. She slipped and fell.

Obama who was behind her by chance, helped her to get up promptly. She thanked him and he answered

"It was a pleasure to help you. Don't you recognize me? I am your president. Are you going to vote for me in the next election?"

The elderly woman laughed and replied:

''You know ... I fell on my ass, not on my head...Â”

Posted by: chain mail at May 29, 2012 04:13 AM (jPE04)

All good things must come to an end, I guess. Over the last couple of months I found myself in agreement with Gabe on everything.

We had a good run, huh Gabe?

You RINO bastard.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 29, 2012 04:13 AM (Cc9g8)

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 07:30 AM (Z5iSP)

Not trying to prop up women, per se...just indicative of Bammy Choom Choom's obsessions with long hard tubes full of sea men.

ISWIDT

Posted by: Ezra's Equal at May 29, 2012 04:14 AM (F3Ima)

79 As a side question, does anyone know how you can safely use a public network to pay bills with?

Posted by: GnuBreed at May 29, 2012 08:09 AM (ccXZP)

-------

Using the secure port (https) will encrypt the data between you and the server. That isn't 100% foolproof, but it better than nothing.

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 04:14 AM (cWkOB)

80 All this googling has exploded the illegitimacy rate. I'm getting sick and tired of it.

Posted by: Joe Biden, Class Clown (Retired) at May 29, 2012 04:14 AM (IoNBC)

81 As if we didnÂ’t have enough to worry about. The Southeast is being infested with a new species of ticks from South America.

-------------------------

And wouldn't you know it. There's a "hypothesis" presented near the end of the article that it's being caused by...global warming. Or, its newfangled term, climate change.

Posted by: Lady in Black at May 29, 2012 04:14 AM (vOMX+)

82 From our telemetry,looks like you're out of yeast infection cream. Visit Vagi-Kleen and enter promo code STREETVIEW for special internet pricing!

Posted by: Google Street View at May 29, 2012 07:14 AM (JDIKC)

Didn't even have to check the hash to know whose sock that was...

Posted by: Mr. Dave at May 29, 2012 04:14 AM (OBDWE)

83 "public network to pay bills with?"

If the server is "https" there is encryption protecting your account and password, etc.

Don't do it at a public (e.g. library) computer.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 04:14 AM (O3R/2)

84 EoJ, we're all RINOs now.

Posted by: Andy at May 29, 2012 04:15 AM (XG+Mn)

85 It wasn't "Dems per se". Some private citizens intercepted it and recorded it and released it to a newspaper who published it.

I think you bought the MFM spin on the "private citizens". IIRC those snoopy codgers were apparatchiks in the local donk politburo and were probably about as harmless as Alger fucking Hiss.

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 29, 2012 04:15 AM (7Ph7Z)

86 Oh, get ahold of yourself, it's not about "trusting the FCC." Journalists are inaccurately describing what Google did and I pointed that out. Now, I understand that frustrates folks who credulously believed what they read in the papers. Well, too bad. You're not entitled to your own facts. Moreover, I and several other folks, including a lawyer knowledgeable about this issue, say that the FCC is likely right about the legality of recording the transmissions in question. But you don't like that either, so out come the snotty attacks: "I'm glad you're so trusting...", "how'd you like your phone calls recorded..." Blah.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at May 29, 2012 04:16 AM (tZ6d2)

87 ok, I'm back. You mean they moved the Nuclear Wessels from Alameda?

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 04:16 AM (Z5iSP)

88 Nevermind me, just resetting my sock.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at May 29, 2012 04:17 AM (gPDxp)

89 I think you bought the MFM spin on the "private citizens".

Well that was long ago before the internet. It would be hard to go back and get the true story.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 04:17 AM (YdQQY)

90 Don't tell Robert, but Ted Cruz is a secret Canadian! http://tinyurl.com/c43n2oz

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 04:17 AM (nUY/O)

91 Vic, Jimmah,

The problem as I see it is that to access a secure network you first have to log on to them. It is the logon info that is not secure and can be captured.

That is specifically what my worry is. Note that if you are doing this from your smart phone, you are already on a private network so no (major) worries. No, I'm referring to using a computer and an open wifi network like at a MacDonalds.

Posted by: GnuBreed at May 29, 2012 04:19 AM (ccXZP)

92 Gabe you think that was a "snotty attack"?? Little sensitive there huh?

But Gabe I have been into this electronic communications stuff and the laws since before you were born.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 04:19 AM (YdQQY)

93 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable tyrant.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 04:20 AM (8y9MW)

94 Obama stars in "My Two Sons" http://tinyurl.com/d38tbuo

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 04:20 AM (nUY/O)

95 No, I'm referring to using a computer and an open wifi network like at a MacDonalds.

Posted by: GnuBreed at May 29, 2012 08:19 AM (ccXZP)

I would NEVER use an open wi-fi at a place like McDonald's to pay bills. Hell, I would have to think twice in using a network like that at all.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 04:21 AM (YdQQY)

EoJ, we're all RINOs now.<<<

Whoa.

***raises lit cigarette lighter in air***

That's seriously meta.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 29, 2012 04:21 AM (Cc9g8)

97 Well that was long ago before the internet. It would be hard to go back and get the true story.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 08:17 AM (YdQQY)

I think the Weekly Standard covered it at the time and gave the real story. Those loveable old farts were about as patriotic as the fucking Rosenbergs.

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 29, 2012 04:23 AM (7Ph7Z)

98 Jeralyn Merritt's article is pretty devastating for the prosecution. The story, as reconstructed, hangs together. And guess what poor Zimmerman was about to lose his life so he did what he could to save himself.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 04:24 AM (nfwzc)

99 BTW, I know that Google did not download people's e-mails etc. Even with open wi-fi that would be almost impossible in a driveby.

However, intercepting their wi-fi is technically illegal and if they do anything with it that release private information they can be prosecuted, and should be

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 04:24 AM (YdQQY)

100 It doesn't matter at this point that Zimmerman is essentially innocent of deliberate wrong-doing. He's a dead man. He can go into the witness protection program, but just like with the "Swatting" we see lately, some Democrat will leak his new name and address to interested parties and he'll end up kidnapped, beaten, tortured and murdered.

More blood on the hands of today's Liberals. Believe in them, as Zimmerman no doubt did, at your peril.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at May 29, 2012 04:25 AM (DuH+r)

101 Video: American Soldier Reunited With Puppy He Saved From Torture In AfghanistanÂ… http://tinyurl.com/874yt9s

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 04:25 AM (nUY/O)

102

The problem as I see it is that to access a secure network you first have to log on to them. It is the logon info that is not secure and can be captured.
--------

If the page you are seeing to log on is using the https port, then the password you enter will be encrypted before its sent. And many times even if it isn't formally encrypted using the SSL certificate from a certified SSL provider, the site will use encryption without you knowing about it via javascript. For instance, any vbulletin powered forum, and probably the other major players as well. Not Aces' forum though.

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 04:26 AM (cWkOB)

103 LOL! From Bloomberg: Six media executives wound up in the top 15 of the Associated PressÂ’s list of highest-paid executives released last week; not a single banker joined them. No doubt these talented executives are worth every penny of their exorbitant pay: Profits at their companies are up, as are stock prices. But one would be hard-pressed to remember the last time that the top pay at media companies outstripped that of Wall Street.

Posted by: rumningrn at May 29, 2012 04:27 AM (WGmy2)

104 Collecting broadcast data may be illegal, but I have absolutely no expectation that the current DoJ will prosecute anything other than George Zimmerman.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 04:28 AM (O3R/2)

105

@60. Sorry, Vic. I missed #27 where you talked about Newt. I'm surprised I recalled it at all. It was some years ago. But I never heard that the people were charged. Good.

In Maryland they have a law that says you cannot record someone without their consent. I recall that from Linda Tripp being charged for recording Monica Lewinski.

Posted by: Case at May 29, 2012 04:30 AM (ZPlWT)

106

But Gabe I have been into this electronic communications stuff and the laws since before you were born. <<<

Vic started decoding dots and dashes on Mr. Marconi's newfangled wireless telegraph.

GET OFF MY LAWN STOP

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 29, 2012 04:30 AM (Cc9g8)

107 More blood on the hands of today's Liberals. Believe in them, as Zimmerman no doubt did, at your peril.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at May 29, 2012 08:25 AM (DuH+r)

I hope the geniuses in the Republican party can find some way of getting that message across without totally stepping on their dicks about it. It's a golden opportunity of the type they usually squander. Let me put it this way: If the roles were reversed the donks would be going pedal to the metal on this.

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 29, 2012 04:31 AM (7Ph7Z)

108 U.S. threatening force against Syria. I say we donÂ’t have a dog in that hunt. http://is.gd/P2fUd0 Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 06:48 AM (YdQQY) We always have a dog in the fight. In this case, both dogs are rabid.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 29, 2012 04:31 AM (05RcU)

109

We're jammin'! Jammin' in de name of de Lord! Get to work, serfs!

Posted by: WH Choom Gang at May 29, 2012 04:32 AM (c3mby)

110 If you ever want to offload that Vic, hit me up

Posted by: Jean at May 29, 2012 04:32 AM (elbGQ)

111 Did anyone notice the limited scope of Chris Hayes' apology about his discomfort calling veterans heroes? Here is his apology: "As many have rightly pointed out, it's very easy for me, a TV host, to opine about the people who fight our wars, having never dodged a bullet or guarded a post or walked a mile in their boots. Of course, that is true of the overwhelming majority of our nation's citizens as a whole. One of the points made during Sunday's show was just how removed most Americans are from the wars we fight, how small a percentage of our population is asked to shoulder the entire burden and how easy it becomes to never read the names of those who are wounded and fight and die, to not ask questions about the direction of our strategy in Afghanistan, and to assuage our own collective guilt about this disconnect with a pro-forma ritual that we observe briefly before returning to our barbecues. But in seeking to discuss the civilian-military divide and the social distance between those who fight and those who don't, I ended up reinforcing it, conforming to a stereotype of a removed pundit whose views are not anchored in the very real and very wrenching experience of this long decade of war. And for that I am truly sorry." So, what is the "that" about which he is truly sorry? As U read his apology, he is apparently sorry he conformed to a stereotype of a removed pundit. Ann Coulter summed it up when she tweeted Â“Chris Hayes Â‘UncomfortableÂ’ Calling Fallen Military Â‘HeroesÂ’ Â– Marines respond by protecting his right to menstruate.Â”

Posted by: USA at May 29, 2012 04:35 AM (6Cjut)

112 Laura Ingriham and the FOX news crew were laughing heartilly about Zero's speech where he talks about "some" in society hating on servicemen during Vietnam, and then they cut to one of the presidents supporters hating on McCain during a Memorial Day speech.

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 04:36 AM (cWkOB)

113 It appears that the Gingrich taping was a setup by activists monitoring someone's phone in FL.

http://is.gd/uyYc6S

http://is.gd/ZpDCKH

Keep in mid that this was after the 1986 law was in effect and therefore highly illegal. And look who's phone was grabbed; "Crying Boner" who was sitting still thus making it possible to pick up.

And how about this:

"Republicans asked Attorney General Janet Reno to refer the tape of the intercepted phone call to the Justice Department's criminal division for investigation, because it is illegal to secretly record telephone conversations."

I think they were charged but never did see how it came out.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 04:36 AM (YdQQY)

114 Why was google saving the data? Why not flush the buffer every minute, there used to be tools to wardrive around and find APs. what would be the point.

Posted by: Jean at May 29, 2012 04:36 AM (elbGQ)

115 Posted by: USA at May 29, 2012 08:35 AM (6Cjut) Limited scope? It was a non-apology apology. It was typical liberal convoluted bullshit

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 29, 2012 04:37 AM (05RcU)

116 If you ever want to offload that Vic, hit me up

Posted by: Jean at May 29, 2012 08:32 AM (elbGQ)

Are you talking about the Icom? I really don't want to get rid of it. I have a matching pair with that opne and a R-71A

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 04:38 AM (YdQQY)

117 Limited scope? It was a non-apology apology. It was typical liberal convoluted bullshit Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 29, 2012 08:37 AM (05RcU) That was my point. His apology was self-absorbed bs. He is sorry he conformed to a stereotype. That's it!

Posted by: USA at May 29, 2012 04:39 AM (6Cjut)

118 FL couple were charged and plead guilty. The receieved a slap on the pee-pee.

http://is.gd/aanXLS

This was supposed to be a federal felony.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 04:40 AM (YdQQY)

119 Limited scope? It was a non-apology apology. It was typical liberal convoluted bullshit Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 29, 2012 08:37 AM (05RcU) That was my point. His apology was self-absorbed bs. He is sorry he conformed to a stereotype. That's it! Posted by: USA at May 29, 2012 08:39 AM (6Cjut) I know that was you point. But it's alot more satisfying ranting and raving here than to myself in the car.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 29, 2012 04:41 AM (05RcU)

120 Say what you want about Ann Coulter, but there are times when she can come right out of one of her articles and slap the shit out of someone.

Posted by: Case at May 29, 2012 04:41 AM (ZPlWT)

121 102 >> If the page you are seeing to log on is using the https port, then the password you enter will be encrypted before its sent.

See, I travel a lot and sometimes need to pay a bill while I'm gone via my computer. I just looked at the logon screen for my credit card, and it is using an https portal -- so even the logon info is encrypted is what you are saying. Okay. Got a link?

My previous searches on this subject have left me, well, insecure about this.

Posted by: GnuBreed at May 29, 2012 04:42 AM (ccXZP)

122 Video: American Soldier Reunited With Puppy He Saved From Torture In AfghanistanÂ…

http://tinyurl.com/874yt9s

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 08:25 AM (nUY/O)

Awww....I love happy ending puppeh stories!

Posted by: Tami at May 29, 2012 04:43 AM (X6akg)

123 Officials from a series of countries, including France Britain and Australia, said Tuesday that they were expelling Syrian diplomats in a bid to increase pressure on leader Bashar Assad in protest to recent civilian killings. And they weren't expelled a year ago because??????

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 29, 2012 04:43 AM (05RcU)

124

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at May 29, 2012 08:16 AM (tZ6d2)

Gabe, you and several other folks saying something is so doesn't make it so. And no, a WiFi signal isn't configured to be received by the general public. The assumptions you'd need to make that true would be unrealistic at best, and you simply can't say that legislative intent in crafting that sentence covered leeching onto someone's private LAN (well, not with a straight face anyway...).

And by your own argument, it's perfectly fine for me to listen into your phone conversations, including those on your 800mhZ cordless phones in your house. Hey, you're broadcasting that signal to the world, right? In fact, that signal is going all over the place including -through my own body- so in a way I guess I own that signal too.

Posted by: JohnTant at May 29, 2012 04:43 AM (tVWQB)

125 "The problem for Zimmerman is the notoriety of this case -- any judge is going to want to avoid making that call and find a reason to let the case go to the jury." ------------ This is just sick. From what is described, in full detail, from this piece is that Zimmerman is pretty much not guilty. But, because of the "notoriety of the case" let's not follow the law... OJ Simpson rehash. Simply pathetic, if this happens, and it goes to trial.

Posted by: white black justice at May 29, 2012 04:43 AM (HOOye)

126 FL couple were charged and plead guilty. The receieved a slap on the pee-pee.

http://is.gd/aanXLS

This was supposed to be a federal felony.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 08:40 AM (YdQQY)

I knew Ma and Pa Trotsky didn't get punished nearly as badly as, say, what George Zimmerman is looking at; despite the fact that they knew every fucking thing they were doing was illegal yet were serving the needs of the commiecrats.

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 29, 2012 04:44 AM (7Ph7Z)

127 Vic, I saw one for sale in Belgium but didnt feel like the risk was worth it. I actually have the need, but havent gotten around to writing up the justification. I will probably go with the pc card version as that is easier to integrate with my other stuff, circular radiometers and other antennas.

Posted by: Jean at May 29, 2012 04:45 AM (elbGQ)

128 Live Action uncovers gendercide in the U.S. http://tinyurl.com/6rlmjwn Awful.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 04:46 AM (nUY/O)

129 @103 - rumningrn? Rough weekend young lady?

Posted by: teej at May 29, 2012 04:48 AM (sbimF)

130

From The Daily Caller

President who added $16,000 to your debt gives financial tips to kids

http://tinyurl.com/6v8rcyy

Posted by: Nash Rambler at May 29, 2012 04:48 AM (vXucy)

131 GnuBreed, you should be. I only hit public wifi using the instant boot rom os on my netbook, streamtop?, or when booting from an iso on a locked stick or cd.

Posted by: Jean at May 29, 2012 04:48 AM (elbGQ)

132 Have you checked e-bay? A lot of times someone will have an old one for sale. I check the used list at Universal radio to see if they had one. No dice. It seems that because that was the last continuous coverage they are in high demand. The replacement R-2500 doesn't cover the full spectrum.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 04:50 AM (YdQQY)

133 I'm using someone's open wifi to use my laptop. Otherwise you guys wouldn't hear about how awesome I am. That would be a tragedy, yes?

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 04:50 AM (nUY/O)

134 Joffen, I just sent that link to an aquaintance who works at NOW. The response should be enlightening.

Posted by: Jean at May 29, 2012 04:50 AM (elbGQ)

135 Speaking of dumb journalists, the BBC apologizes for using a logo from Halo's United Nations Space Command instead of of the actual UN logo during a broadcast about the Syrian atrocities.

Maybe they should send Master Chief into Syria

Posted by: TheQuietMan at May 29, 2012 04:52 AM (1Jaio)

136 I just sent that link to an aquaintance who works at NOW. The response should be enlightening. -- Haha, yeah I'm sure it will be. Let us know what their response is. Oh, well. It's a woman's choice isn't it? It HER body. /sarc

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 04:53 AM (nUY/O)

137 Vic, there is a used test equipment guy that gets them occassionally. I can get the full LEO/gov setup if I take the time to do the paperwork. Right now we just test with some low power signal generators and old cells.

Posted by: Jean at May 29, 2012 04:54 AM (elbGQ)

138

Too bad for the Syrians. HALO's 'UN' Space Command might do something useful. Not that I'm hugely in favor of getting involved in Syria beyond giving the rebels some light anti-tank weapons to make it less of a massacre. Unfortunately for the region, and the world, nothing good can ever happen there. Thanks big Mo.

Posted by: Beagle at May 29, 2012 04:55 AM (sOtz/)

139 135, Thats Bidens plan

Posted by: Jean at May 29, 2012 04:55 AM (elbGQ)

140 All the community or enlisted pools on the Army posts are closed this year due to lack of funding. I smell a rat.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 04:55 AM (Z5iSP)

141 Okay, first time today:
Moron Meetup in DFW this weekend (Jun 2).
Please email me if you're interested in attending (dedicatedtenther[at]gmail[dot]com). I'll try to call ahead by Thursday or so so we can have a reservation, but that means I need a head-count.

Ace, Cobs, someone with the keys: please post this in the sidebar and make it sticky. Please.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 04:55 AM (8y9MW)

142 BTW Jean, if you know someone in "government" you can order the ICOM R-2000AU which has continuous coverage.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 04:56 AM (YdQQY)

143 Are the women who work for PP brainwashed or something? I mean, sweet lord, the woman's reaction and body language is just like they're talking about the weather. Wow.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 04:56 AM (nUY/O)

144 good morning

Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 29, 2012 04:57 AM (Ho2rs)

145 AaronWorthing

#BrettKimberlin a man who looks like Neal rauhauser is here w kimberlin

Sounds like Aaron Worthing is pretty much face-to-face with B Kimberlin and crew in Court this morning.

Posted by: Lincolntf at May 29, 2012 05:00 AM (HethX)

146 @143. PP, the people who fund them and the ones who force me to fund them with my tax dollars equal pure evil.

Posted by: teej at May 29, 2012 05:02 AM (sbimF)

147 141 Okay, first time today:
Moron Meetup in DFW this weekend (Jun 2).

AllenG I would love to make the meetup since I will be in Dallas this weekend. However I will be at Project A-kon indulging my uber otaku geekness to the max

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 05:03 AM (nfwzc)

148 Interesting take if you follow one of the commenter's links to where they take a reasoned position that trayvon was at the 7-11 getting hooked up with some dope and/or the means to smoke it. Then on the way home he spots Z and gets paranoid, goes home stashes the dope and then has a mood swing and decides now he's clean he can go back and confront Z about why he was watching him.

No telling if it's accurate but it does answer some questions and hangs together rather well with what we know about M. (dope and attitude).

Still a lot of folks are invested in the idea that M is some martyred saint.

Why is it that liberals, who mostly despise religion, get so religiously fervent about OTHER things. (climate change, Obama, Evolution, death penalty, guns etc. etc.)?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 05:03 AM (CP+yl)

149 Say what you want about Trump, but he'll get the yob vote for sure.

If the yobs even vote. But heck, maybe this will be a little GOTV for the yobs.

Posted by: TheLittlShiningMan at May 29, 2012 05:04 AM (PH+2B)

150 143 They are. They are completely over the edge. They have been convinced by the left that those babies are not only just "cells" but that they are dangerous to your health "cells".

My nephew's wife thinks being able to kill those cells is the most important "right" in the history of the world

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 05:04 AM (Z5iSP)

151 new post up at my place, for those interested. Thanks to Vic for the Daily Mail article.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 05:04 AM (8y9MW)

152 Any fellow shit kickers around? We don't hang around with moth breathers, retard or yokels.

Posted by: fluffy at May 29, 2012 05:04 AM (z9HTb)

153 Joffen, the response, a friendly f u

Posted by: Jean at May 29, 2012 05:06 AM (elbGQ)

154 Or spellers

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 05:06 AM (Z5iSP)

155
Why is it that liberals, who mostly despise religion, get so religiously fervent about OTHER things. (climate change, Obama, Evolution, death penalty, guns etc. etc.)?

Because they abandoned God. Now they try to fill the void with anything else.

Posted by: Alex at May 29, 2012 05:06 AM (UCYm5)

156 Texas primary day, I voted second in my precinct at 7:30, looks like turnout is going to be very low. Underfunded challengers to RINO incumbents were getting at least 50% of the early votes.

Posted by: Bob Saget at May 29, 2012 05:06 AM (SDkq3)

157 AllenG I would love to make the meetup since I will be in Dallas this weekend. However I will be at Project A-kon indulging my uber otaku geekness to the max

I'm jealous. I used to go to A-Con every year. That said, I was figuring evening-ish, so unless you're in one of the LARPs, you could probably still make it.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 05:07 AM (8y9MW)

158 135, Thats Bidens plan

Posted by: Jean at May 29, 2012 08:55 AM (elbGQ)

But he can't figure out why a Master Chief doesn't have any good recipes

Posted by: TheQuietMan at May 29, 2012 05:08 AM (1Jaio)

159 Texas primary day, I voted second in my precinct at 7:30, looks like turnout is going to be very low. Underfunded challengers to RINO incumbents were getting at least 50% of the early votes.

Yeah... I need to leave work early today, so I can make sure I can get to my polling place.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 05:08 AM (8y9MW)

160 @146: My sister had an abortion 2 1/2 years ago. It's hard to think about. The baby would have been a few months older than my daughter. I only talked about her abortion a few times and her response the last time I brought it up still haunts me. She said, "stop calling it a baby." I don't think I will ever understand her mindset, but I suppose it doesn't help that she lives in Canada where it's easier to accept killing a child and having it paid for by tax dollars. My sister isn't a cruel or evil person. She was just brought up in a culture of death.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 05:08 AM (nUY/O)

161 Because they abandoned God. Now they try to fill the void with anything else. ---- I'm curious how you explain conservative atheists. Are conservative atheists trying to fill a void with...conservatism?

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 05:10 AM (nUY/O)

162 "Women have been shown to make the same as men, and possibly even slightly higher, when all factors are accounted for. Ladies if you feel like you are making less than men, then work the same number of hours that men do. http://is.gd/YRP0yg Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 06:51 AM (YdQQY)" ----------- In my personal experience, I call BS on this statement. I worked for a large international firm. Worked, sometimes, upward of 80 hours a week (yes, 6-8 or 9 at night, and weekends) if need be. I climbed the corporate ladder fast (when the company was actually run by mostly women - and was started by a woman). Once at Director level, and a change of hands to an all male executive level, it were the men that had the advantage. With salary and bonuses. (Yes, I know for a fact.) To top it off, I, personally, applied for an open CIO position after years of outstanding performance reviews and hard work (smarter work than most of the men at my tier). It was me against 7 other men, then down to two, myself and a loser male associate. The losers office was on the opposite wall of my own, where I watched women parade into his office to talk about "personal problems" pretty much every day (aka flirting back and forth), and whereby none of his projects ever met a budget nor finished on time (this was public within our department and discussed at weekly meetings) I was always under-budget and always on time. This Bidenesque man got the position. And, guess why? He golfed with one of the major decision makers for the position. And, guess when he was golfing? DURING THE DAY when he was supposed to be working. Not kidding. When I had quit, it became a shit-storm. The CEO/President met personally with me, recorded my conversations, listened in on others, and tried to get me to stay on by sending surrogates to take me to lunch to try to persuade me. But, personally, I had had enough, and it was time to move on. (And, I lived happily ever after.) The golfing buddy was fired thereafter, within weeks. And, the moron was fired a year later because he was overpaid and he sucked. Um, yeah, it happens. All the time. Men are paid more and do less. I could give you dozens of examples... Women have always had to work 3x or 4x as hard, just to get recognized. Your statement is completely false.

Posted by: white black justice at May 29, 2012 05:10 AM (HOOye)

163 I don't think I will ever understand her mindset

I do. Without getting into personal details w/o her permission, I'll just say that I have some insight on this through my wife. And the reason is guilt- deep, soul-eating guilt. If she allows herself to think of "it" as "a baby," she'll realize she's a murderer.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 05:11 AM (8y9MW)

164 I'm curious how you explain conservative atheists. Are conservative atheists trying to fill a void with...conservatism? Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot

No, they fill it with other things of this world. Pick one. This is Augustine's classic City of God vs. City of Man distinction.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 05:12 AM (sbV1u)

165 I just sent that link to an aquaintance who works at NOW. The response should be enlightening.

I can't see NOW doing anything other than calling for a law to require an equal number of baby boy's to be aborted.

Posted by: real joe at May 29, 2012 05:13 AM (PD2ad)

166 AllenG, hhmmm.

Not in the cosplay contest. Nor am I planning to attend the rave dance. About the only thing I love doing Saturday night is hanging with the art folks bidding on art. Sometimes I even win a piece of art.

This year Elizabeth Moon and CJ Cherryh are supposed to be there. Along with the voice of Gir from Invader Zim. Bandai is having an official Gunpla event for all the Gundam model builders.

Shoot me an email to the address in my name, I might make it.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 05:14 AM (nfwzc)

167 LaToya Jackson and Melissa Etheridge were born on this day.

Posted by: Lampshade at May 29, 2012 05:14 AM (lkdo/)

168 Are conservative atheists trying to fill a void with...conservatism?

In many cases, yes. Everyone is going to have some single thing (be it a person or a principle) that they "worship" (not necessarily in the "go to church every Sunday" sense, but worship nonetheless). For some conservative Atheists, that principle is money (as it is with so many others), for some it's Nationalism or Patriotism, for others it's "Societal Norms." There are more principles than I can count. But make no mistake, there is something that is more important than anything else to everyone- be they Christian, Jew, Pagan, or Atheist.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 05:15 AM (8y9MW)

169 167 lampshade i'm not sure what i'm supposed to do with that information//////

Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 29, 2012 05:15 AM (Ho2rs)

170

Women have always had to work 3x or 4x as hard, just to get recognized.

Your statement is completely false.<<<<

Nonsense. Let's look at all the variables before passing judgment. What kind of rack are you working with?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 29, 2012 05:16 AM (Cc9g8)

171 i'm not sure what i'm supposed to do with that information//////Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 29, 2012 09:15 AM (Ho2rs)

Drop your tank top and turn lesbian maybe.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 05:16 AM (sbV1u)

172
Again, if you're telling into the street, it's not unlawful for me to hear you, record you, and try and make a buck off of it.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at May 29, 2012 07:46 AM (tZ6d2)

I would think a better analogy might be that you used some kind of faciilitator to Hear what conversations were being made inside a home. Didn't they also mention a year or so back that they had some kind of exray that could see into car trunks and through walls?

if you did not hve the capacity to protyct your home from that would it be ok for them to snap pics of you or your children in your home unbeknownst to tyou?

Posted by: willow at May 29, 2012 05:16 AM (TomZ9)

173 lgeally*

Posted by: willow at May 29, 2012 05:17 AM (TomZ9)

174 Women have always had to work 3x or 4x as hard, just to get recognized. Your statement is completely false. I have worked for large and small companies. There is still alot of sexism out there. But mostly liberal men are sexist. .

Posted by: Lampshade at May 29, 2012 05:17 AM (lkdo/)

175 Oh wow, an anecdote!

Posted by: Waterhouse at May 29, 2012 05:17 AM (01Bj+)

176 Nonsense. Let's look at all the variables before passing judgment.What kind of rack are you working with? ---- That just made my fucken day!

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 05:17 AM (nUY/O)

177 Today is also Facebook options day.

Posted by: Bob Saget at May 29, 2012 05:18 AM (SDkq3)

178 AllenG re: abortion debate. The following article should make people cringe. Three teens in the UK have had 24 abortions between them.
http://tinyurl.com/bvqoruy
Remember when Obama said he never wanted his daughters punished.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 05:18 AM (nfwzc)

179 Joffen I think conservative atheists are thankfully leading an illogical life. If you're being logical, an atheist should lead their life based on only what is in their self interest.

Posted by: polynikes at May 29, 2012 05:18 AM (bPvWY)

180 This Bidenesque man got the position.

And, guess why? He golfed with one of the major decision makers for the position.

He got it because he was an ass-kissing suckup. Women will have to be proficient at this as well. As I said, when they do all the same things that men do to get ahead they will rise.

After working in corporate America for 30 years I can tell you once you get to a certain level you have to be a suckup to get ahead.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 05:18 AM (YdQQY)

181 Something has been bothering me re this Texas Senate race. During the primaries I was told by Perry naysayers that the Governor of Texas was weak compared to the Lieutenant Governor. So the logic appeared to be that the credit for Texas' performance rested on the Lt. Gov. (and legislature). I also read that the current Lt. Gov. was a successful businessman and veteran. Ted Cruz is a lawyer who seems to have always drawn a government paycheck. So why am I supposed to think Cruz is so superior to Dewhurst again? I don't want to hear about endorsements and I don't want to hear about "dirty campaigning." I just want to know what's so bad about Dewhurst's performance and what's so superior about Cruz's.

Posted by: Y-not despises the SCOAMF at May 29, 2012 05:19 AM (5H6zj)

182 And BTW, what I saw was women working less and getting advanced to satisfy EEOC concerns.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 05:20 AM (YdQQY)

183 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 09:15 AM (8y9MW) -------- True. Christians place God above everything else (at least, they say they do), so I suppose Augustine was right about that. Of course, he seemed to think that non-believers were hedonists, which is definitely not true.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 05:20 AM (nUY/O)

184
Women have always had to work 3x or 4x as hard, just to get recognized.

Oh please. What a bunch of tripe.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 05:21 AM (Z5iSP)

185 And BTW, what I saw was women working less and getting advanced to satisfy EEOC concerns. There are woman in corporate america who will hurt you for saying that these days.

Posted by: Lampshade at May 29, 2012 05:21 AM (lkdo/)

186 I've seen plenty of women who operated JUST LIKE your "bidenesque" dude and shot up the ladder. Vic is completely correct Meanwhile I got a new job recently and am v busy. Also just the usual life stuff. So the Zombie Apocalypse is starting it looks like?

Posted by: BlackOrchid at May 29, 2012 05:21 AM (SB0V2)

187 wbj:

And I could give you dozens of examples where women did less work for the same pay as the men. Where they were allowed time off that the men didn't get. That special allowances were made for women not being physically able to do the same work.

Then in the '70's came affirmative action and one of the biggest scams ever perpetrated on men; the determination that over 50% of the human race is a MINORITY and should have special privileges.

I've seen just as many morons and know nothings promoted over me because they were women or minority (I make a point of making a point about that) then they turned to me for either training how to do the job or just handed it to me to do while they got the raise.

Life sucks and the universe is unfair. Deal!

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 05:22 AM (CP+yl)

188 If you're being logical, an atheist should lead their life based on only what is in their self interest. ---- There's an argument out there that being kind to others and being kind is acting out of self-interest. I'm not sure how good an argument that is, but it sounds reasonable. You're saying it's more logical for me to be selfish? How so?

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 05:23 AM (nUY/O)

189 From the sidebar: The UK's Most Beautiful Face Samantha Brick hardest hit.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at May 29, 2012 05:25 AM (21lBC)

190 Women have always had to work 3x or 4x as hard, just to get recognized.

Bullshit. Any corporation with deep pockets bends over backwards to recognize women.

And good luck on working 4x as hard as me. I'm the laziest bastid in the office and it still isn't possible.

Your statement is completely false.

Woah! Why didn't you say so in the first place? Your single, unsubstantiated (and probably fictional) anecdote changes everything!

Posted by: fluffy at May 29, 2012 05:25 AM (z9HTb)

191 So why am I supposed to think Cruz is so superior to Dewhurst again?

I'm not sure on that, either. After viewing all their records, I actually think Tom Leppert (who may be the one who forces the run-off, but won't be in 2nd place, so he won't be an option at the end of July) has the clearest conservative record. Other than that, Dewhurst and Cruz appear about equal to me.

I don't set a whole lot in store by the cases Cruz has argued, since, as solicitor general of Texas, he was mostly assigned cases by the AG; and of course I would expect him to argue the side of Texas and do so ably, whatever his own political opinion.

But Dewhurst made some very bad calls, politically, in the last legislative session, including killing some bills that Conservatives really, really wanted.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 05:25 AM (8y9MW)

192 Oh good, a woman-bashing thread.

Fuck you guys.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at May 29, 2012 05:25 AM (/kI1Q)

193 Heather it does seem the circular firing squad is assembling.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 05:26 AM (nfwzc)

194

Um, yeah, it happens. All the time. Men are paid more and do less.

================

I'd be happy to post 2 counter examples to your anecdote...

Posted by: Jay at May 29, 2012 05:26 AM (3LaGb)

195 If you're being kind to others to advance your self interest then you are selfish. It's the same argument.

You can't be truly happy though only worshipping yourself. That will always lead to depression because you are a poor substitute for God. But you can't tell self-worshippers that because that is anathema to them.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 05:26 AM (Z5iSP)

196 It was started by a woman bashing men. Or lying to accomplish same.

probably a female kos kid who got lost on the way to the playpen.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 05:27 AM (CP+yl)

197 It's not what genitalia you have. It's who you know.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 05:28 AM (Z5iSP)

198 I could give you dozens of examples...

Have at it. 24 or STFU

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 29, 2012 05:28 AM (7Ph7Z)

199 I am a social conservative. I don't believe in gay marriage and I don't support abortion. I can make my case without using religion. Is that being selfish? I wonder if the religious actually oppose these things for reasons other than, "God said it was wrong." I certainly hope so.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 05:28 AM (nUY/O)

200

Women have always had to work 3x or 4x as hard, just to get recognized.

===============

That is spit out the coffee, laugh out loud, funny...

Posted by: Jay at May 29, 2012 05:28 AM (3LaGb)

201 Of course, he seemed to think that non-believers were hedonists, which is definitely not true.

Meh. From his perspective, he pretty well was. Also, it could be a case of "all the non-believers he knew."

You're saying it's more logical for me to be selfish? How so?

Because you're the only one you can count on to keep your best interests at heart. Therefore, logically, it makes sense to make sure that "you get yours" and any helping of other people is just a nice bonus.

Of course, I think pretty well everybody (even Christians) tends to work that way anyway, so we just make things so that "you getting yours" will also help others.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 05:28 AM (8y9MW)

202 So; I'll go WOMEN and stomp off to the garage.

And you'll go MEN and start throwing the kids in the dishwasher and pushing the pots and pans out the door.

Wait that's wrong isn't it?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 05:29 AM (CP+yl)

203 I think atheists can be just as "good" or altruistic or what-have-you as believers can be. If you believe in a God who punishes bad behavior and rewards good behavior, following what you think He wants you to do is also an act of self-interest. Organized religion is a human construct whereby a group of folks are trying to please God. In a functional sense, it's not different than any other set of beliefs and behaviors that men make. IMO, if you have a belief system that values altruism over selfishness, it's immaterial whether there's a Supreme Being making final judgment on that.

Posted by: Y-not despises the SCOAMF at May 29, 2012 05:30 AM (5H6zj)

204 #203 ask Medea after she served Jason their kids as dinner.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 05:30 AM (nfwzc)

205 Just read a cute article on a 2YO cowboy who rides a little pony named Maybelline. He's the seventh generation of rodeo riders in his family.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at May 29, 2012 05:30 AM (i330i)

206 Oh good, a woman-bashing thread.

Fuck you guys.

No, more a mindless feminism bashing thread. Somebody spills a gallon of weak sauce, we all want to make an easy splash.

Posted by: fluffy at May 29, 2012 05:31 AM (z9HTb)

207 I always wonder what Google is up to when my account is temporarily unavailable.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at May 29, 2012 05:32 AM (i330i)

208 That will always lead to depression because you are a poor substitute for God. But you can't tell self-worshippers that because that is anathema to them. Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 09:26 AM

This is why faith-based programs (rehab, shelter, job search, etc. etc) always have better outcomes than government programs. Because somewhere along the way, they get their "client" to recognize that.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 05:32 AM (sbV1u)

209 204 If that is what happened, but it doesn't.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 05:33 AM (Z5iSP)

210 If you're being kind to others to advance your self interest then you are selfish. It's the same argument. --- Are you being kind to others so you can get to Heaven? I used to be a militant atheist, but now I try to go out of my way to be as inoffensive as possible because I believe that Belief serves a good purpose. So please don't take my responses the wrong way. That said, I often wonder if Christians and other believers base their behavior on selfishness, too. Are they acting this way to get to Heaven? Is that the only reason why they don't lie, cheat and steal? I know for a fact that there are other reasons for being a good person, and if it's out of self-interest, yes you can make that case. However, you'd be hard-pressed to argue that being a good person because you love God is not being selfish.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 05:33 AM (nUY/O)

211 Women have always had to work 3x or 4x as hard, just to get recognized. Thats one reason why I don't like working for many corporations. There is an attitude all the way to the top that women have to work harder and/or kept down, have a glass ceiling etc. Seems to be getting worse. But with job market these days it is hard to be picky

Posted by: Lampshade at May 29, 2012 05:33 AM (lkdo/)

212 Thx, AllenG. So if I may be blunt, it seems conservatives are mad at Dewhurst over some political decisions he made and are latching onto Cruz primarily because he has a cool life story (son of Cuban exiles) and he represents a demographic they think is useful to the Party.

Posted by: Y-not despises the SCOAMF at May 29, 2012 05:33 AM (5H6zj)

213 Somebody spills a gallon of weak sauce, we all want to make an easy splash.Posted by: fluffy at May 29, 2012 09:31 AM

Weak sauce. Is that good on salmon? I want to grill some tonight.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 05:33 AM (sbV1u)

214 Is that being selfish?

Probably.

Take a critical look at your statement; divorce yourself from it. Aren't you just a little bit proud that you can "justify" your morals without God, and those poor benighted Theists can't?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 05:34 AM (8y9MW)

215 I just as my desktop wallpaper that picture of USS Iowa passing beyond the Golden Gate Bridge. Simply beautiful. Too bad the battleship was not under her own power though.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 05:34 AM (nfwzc)

216 I'm glad I didn't go to Miami this weekend, because traffic was backed up for hours on MacArthur Parkway while cops shot at a naked man eating the face off another man. WTF?

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at May 29, 2012 05:34 AM (i330i)

217 I'm curious how you explain conservative atheists. Are conservative atheists trying to fill a void with...conservatism?

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 09:10 AM (nUY/O)

--------------------------

Back in the 60s and 70s, Francis Schaeffer used to refer to the idea of religious "capital," the norms and assumptions about the world, morality, and the nature of man that every religion has. He used to say that Western culture was living on the accumulated capital of its religious roots - i.e., that while Christianity in particular had largely been abandoned, most people still had the basic structural beliefs in morality, human dignity, objective truth, and the like. The Left has been systematically tearing these down for the last century. In my experience conservative atheists still have a worldview that aligns with traditional Judeochristian beliefs - I can think of several conservative atheists that can write beautifully about the illogic of leftism and the importance of traditional morality, but fall down when when they try to explain why their beliefs are true on a philosophical level. Leftists have given all that up, but have to find some kind of belief system to replace it while still holding to a worldview that holds all truths to be personal opinion.

Posted by: Grey Fox, crouched in his mountain fastness at May 29, 2012 05:35 AM (6t8l2)

218 You want a piece of me? I'll rip your face off and eat it for fucking breakfast!

Posted by: Zombie of the Sweet Smelling Bath Salts at May 29, 2012 05:35 AM (/ZZCn)

219 "Are they acting this way to get to Heaven?" For the most part, but God knows the difference.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at May 29, 2012 05:36 AM (i330i)

220 This is why faith-based programs (rehab, shelter, job search, etc. etc) always have better outcomes than government programs. True. Gov't cant help these people. And the ones who faith programs cannot handle are sadly beyond earthly help. Drug addicts, alcoholics, mentally ill etc. They end up jobless/homeless etc. It is what it is.

Posted by: Lampshade at May 29, 2012 05:37 AM (lkdo/)

221 Via twitter: JayCostTWS Oh my. || "Thad McCotter fails to get on ballot, will run as write-in" http://t.co/hHmPnX0L

Posted by: Y-not despises the SCOAMF at May 29, 2012 05:37 AM (5H6zj)

222 It's not what genitalia you have. It's who you know.

Ninja say whut?

Posted by: Ron Jeremy at May 29, 2012 05:37 AM (0Ohos)

223 Take a critical look at your statement; divorce yourself from it. Aren't you just a little bit proud that you can "justify" your morals without God, and those poor benighted Theists can't? ---- Yes, absolutely. If I couldn't justify being a good person without belief in God, I would have a hard time coming to terms with it. That doesn't make me better than Theists. Like I said, I used to believe that I was better than those "poor, benighted Theists" but I grew up and now know that there are good things about being religious. In any case, I am glad that I can justify being a good person without religion. It's satisfying.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 05:38 AM (nUY/O)

224 It's not who you know, it's who you blow.

FTFY

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 05:38 AM (CP+yl)

225 Are you being kind to others so you can get to Heaven?

In Christianity, we are "Saved by faith, not by works." We're not (supposed to be) kind to others to get to Heaven, rather we're supposed to "live our faith." That is, we're kind to others because we're faithful, not because it's going to get us a reward.

There is no possible way a human can be "good" or "kind" enough to get to Heaven. You are going to sin, and even the slightest sin will set you apart from God (this is part of God's Perfect Nature, not some decision He has made). So it is through his Mercy we can be spared the torment of Hell, and by his Grace we can get to Heaven- no amount of "work" on earth will get us there; but we work because we love Him and it's what He wants us to do. Just like you do things for those you love simply because they've asked you to, or you think it will please them.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 05:39 AM (8y9MW)

226 Weak sauce. Is that good on salmon? I want to grill some tonight.

It's made by over-worked, under-paid, over-wrought, under-appreciated womyn, so you will eat and YOU WILL LIKE IT!!

Posted by: fluffy at May 29, 2012 05:39 AM (z9HTb)

227 Christians are supposed to be good because others are images of God. God wants you to be "good" because, since he created you, he knows what kind of behavior will make you the happiest in this life and in the next. What he asks you to do are not arbitrary sets of rules but more of a owner's manual. This is the hardest concept for people to get. He has your best interests at heart--as the perfect parent.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 05:40 AM (Z5iSP)

228 Large corporations (1000+) always bend over backwards to promote women to show compliance with EEOC directives. I can tell you this from personal experience having heard a senior member of corporate management refer to women as "protected specie".

I have also seen women and minorities get away with absolute total incompetent and laziness that would have got men fired. usually what happens is they are traded around like bad pennies from department to department.

But those promotions only work up to a certain point. They just don't seem to be able to displace the senior management that comes up with these policies.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 05:40 AM (YdQQY)

229 In my experience as a software engineer, competent woman are paid every bit as much as competent men.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 05:41 AM (O3R/2)

230 We seem to be drifting from generic belief in God (Believers) to Christianity.

Posted by: Y-not despises the SCOAMF at May 29, 2012 05:41 AM (5H6zj)

231

Loved the UK's Most Beautiful Face, right up until she opened her mouth. Good Lord, woman, learn how to speak ENGLISH!

OT: New Trailer for Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter:

Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter

Posted by: Sharkman at May 29, 2012 05:42 AM (wMsKw)

232 NYT up with a piece on the Decider-in-Chief and his who-to-drone-next committee.

They say the buck stops with him and he likes it that way.

It looks as if it is five to eight thousand words, and I am too lazy to read it all.

Anyone have a synopsis?

Posted by: TheLittlShiningMan at May 29, 2012 05:42 AM (PH+2B)

233 In Christianity, we are "Saved by faith, not by works." Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 09:39 AM

Well....that's a Protestant viewpoint. In Catholicism it is a both/and proposition not a this/only proposition.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 05:42 AM (sbV1u)

234 In any case, I am glad that I can justify being a good person without religion. It's satisfying.

While I've always been a Christian, it is just that justification without starting with "God says so" that has reinforced my belief in God.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 05:43 AM (8y9MW)

235 Hey Soap remember when a TV show used the Star Trek Voyager Marquis logo on its coverage of SEAL Team Six giving Osama a dirt nap? Our intellectual elites are blithering idiots.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 05:43 AM (nfwzc)

236 It's made by over-worked, under-paid, over-wrought, under-appreciated womyn, so you will eat and YOU WILL LIKE IT!!Posted by: fluffy at May 29, 2012 09:39 AM

Oh, in that case I think I'll stick with the miso glaze.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 05:43 AM (sbV1u)

237 I can think of several conservative atheists that can write beautifully about the illogic of leftism and the importance of traditional morality, but fall down when when they try to explain why their beliefs are true on a philosophical level. ---- This is one of my favorite topics. I love reading about philosophy, and before I moved to the States, I was working on a PhD in Philosophy. (I had to drop out because of immigration issues. Long story.) If I am going to make the case for my opinion, I have to back it up in a philosophical, logical way or it falls apart in my mind. I have a tough time being a hypocrite. It's what helped me go from liberal to conservative. I was in a liberal echo-chamber and once I left, my views fell apart. I think a lot of liberals have the same problem. They need to be "mugged by reality" like I was.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 05:44 AM (nUY/O)

238 In Catholicism it is a both/and proposition not a this/only proposition.

Read the rest of my statement. We're not as far apart as you may believe. I didn't want to turn my comment into a treatise on the book of James.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 05:44 AM (8y9MW)

239 And we're off.

Isn't this where Luther came in?

Nothing can be more bitter and bloody than a schism in a religion.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 05:45 AM (CP+yl)

240 Well not to worry, because the new generation of cell phones is all digital packets and does frequency skipping. It is almost impossible to monitor them unless you have a programmed receiver with the necessary algorithms.
Note that the government requires the cell phone providers to give them those algorithms.

This is hardly new. Frequency skipping has been in use in cell networks for decades. The technology itself hearkens back to WWII torpedo guidance, unless my caffiene-deprived brain is mixing things up here. (Bonus points if you can tell the class whose name is on the patent!)

Gabe's right on this one. First rule of communication security is that you never transmit on a non-secure channel what you don't want the world to know. This has been repeatedly pounded into people's skulls since the dawn of ubiquitous wireless communication, but it still hasn't sunk in for some folks I guess. This is why I tend to insist on cabled connections where feasible, folks. If any of those fools were sending sensible info over unsecured wireless networks, guess what, that's a public medium. You may as well be shouting your personal details in a public space at the top of your lungs. It's just stupid.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 29, 2012 05:45 AM (GBXon)

241 Read the rest of my statement. We're not as far apart as you may believe. I didn't want to turn my comment into a treatise on the book of James.Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 09:44 AM

I was adding clarity, not disputing you. We're not apart at all on how to live it.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 05:46 AM (sbV1u)

242 Sensitive info. Can't blame autocomplete. Need caffiene.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 29, 2012 05:46 AM (GBXon)

243 No my altruism is not done for reward or because of fear of punishment. It is done because of the love I have and the love I feel from the Holy Spirit and that I will continue to exist beyond this world. I readily admit that there are many non believers who are much better people than those that claim to believe. All I'm saying is it is illogical to act anyway other than what is in your self interest if you believe your short time on earth is all you have. For example a thought exercise, if you found Bill Gates wallet with a $5000 cash would you return it?

Posted by: polynikes at May 29, 2012 05:46 AM (bPvWY)

244 You mean in Protestant Christianity Allen. Catholic Christianity hold that of course your actions are important. Faith is a supernatural gift supplied by God's grace when your will and your intellect assent to belief. Martin Luther came up with Sola Fide because he was scrupulous. Catholics don't believe that man is intrinsically evil, in fact we believe man is intrinsically good and once given God's grace through baptism can use reason and revelation to act out a life of grace. It's difficult because of the concupiscence acquired at the fall but the more grace we receive the easier it becomes. Jesus' grace doesn't cover our sin like a mantle but rather lifts us up so we can act out our grace filled lives and walk through the gates of heaven he as opened for us.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 05:47 AM (Z5iSP)

245 For example a thought exercise, if you found Bill Gates wallet with a $5000 cash would you return it?Posted by: polynikes at May 29, 2012 09:46 AM (bPvWY)

Depends. Does it have an unregistered patent in it?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 05:48 AM (sbV1u)

246 #167 - So nothing important happened then?

Posted by: Mikey NTH needs to buy some Off before sitting outside in the evening at May 29, 2012 05:48 AM (hLRSq)

247 if you found Bill Gates wallet with a $5000 cash would you return it?

yes, so I could beat the snot of the f**ker for windows 3.0, windows 95 and oh yes, Vista.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 05:48 AM (CP+yl)

248 If Bill Gates is packing $5G around in his wallet, he's gonna need it for a hip replacement.

Posted by: Fritz at May 29, 2012 05:49 AM (/ZZCn)

249 Okay, I'll be your conservative atheist huckleberry.

I don't believe in God, but I'm not stupid. I've noticed that people who believe in God -- and in particular modern Christians -- are good people to be around. They build societies that are good to live in.

In particular, I think liberal democracy, such as the Founders established in America and the British spread to their dominions, could only have developed in a Protestant Christian society. And it's no coincidence that it still thrives best in lands with a large Protestant population. I have some theories about why, but it's a simple empirical fact. (And one of the biggest exceptions, modern Japan, was literally transformed at gunpoint by a Protestant Christian liberal democracy.)

Consequently, as an atheist, it's a no-brainer for me to support a society which tries to align with the good old Protestant Christian values. I don't believe in God but I have tremendous respect for those who do. The real mystery to me is the implacable hostility modern "liberals" have for those values. It almost reaches the level of a brain disorder.

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 29, 2012 05:50 AM (lrvnD)

250 Isn't this where Luther came in?

Partially. Luther brought up a lot of issues. Actually, in many ways it was a reaction against the Protestant Reformation, but still believing that much with the Catholic Church was wrong that lead to the Campbell-Stone Restoration Movement (which spawned the Church of Christ, among others).

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 05:50 AM (8y9MW)

251 It's made by over-worked, under-paid, over-wrought, under-appreciated womyn, so you will eat and YOU WILL LIKE IT!!>>>

Since it's salted with their tears it is quite tasty.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at May 29, 2012 05:51 AM (tf9Ne)

252 Brother Cavil, freq. hopping in WWII? Talking of the German plane launched missiles or the USAAF experiments?

IIRC it was Dutch resistance that figured out a way of creating new pathways between phones in the phone switches.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 05:51 AM (nfwzc)

253 If I found Bill Gates's wallet holding $5K in cash you bet your ass I'd return it. Altruism aside, having Bill Gates's friendship and gratitude is worth a HELL of a lot more than $5000.

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 29, 2012 05:52 AM (lrvnD)

254 Romney campaign verified today that Mitt is a douche.
But he's the douche we have

Posted by: Brotherhood of Losers at May 29, 2012 05:52 AM (cYQg0)

255 The Catholic Church never really understood John Locke.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 05:53 AM (O3R/2)

256 Partially. Luther brought up a lot of issues. Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 09:50 AM

....which were all addressed at the Council of Trent. Did Lutherans return to the fold? Ummm, no.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 05:53 AM (sbV1u)

257 Martin Luther got the nickel tour of Rome. Saw all the selling of favors and cronyism. And decided to have his own OWS moment when he nailed his complaints to a church door.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 05:53 AM (nfwzc)

258 If I found Bill Gates's wallet holding $5K in cash you bet your ass I'd return it. Altruism aside, having Bill Gates's friendship and gratitude is worth a HELL of a lot more than $5000.
Posted by: Trimegistus at May 29, 2012 09:52 AM (lrvnD)

More likely he'd have you neutered and released.

Posted by: Brotherhood of Losers at May 29, 2012 05:54 AM (cYQg0)

259 implacable hostility modern "liberals" have for those values. It almost reaches the level of a brain disorder.

Ding, ding, ding. WE have a winna!

It's almost like they're the spawn of the devil. Sent to destroy what good has been created on earth.

They say Jehovah is a jealous God.

Nay.

it is Lucifer who seethes with envy and jealousy.

He was thrown out of heaven for his overweening pride and envy and jealousy were it's ultimate expression.

Exiled here he has always tried to usurp God's place among men and instill in them the pride that he cannot eschew himself.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 05:54 AM (CP+yl)

260 #255 you would be doing it solely for your self interest. Let's change it to George Soro's wallet.

Posted by: polynikes at May 29, 2012 05:54 AM (bPvWY)

261 All I'm saying is it is illogical to act anyway other than what is in your self interest if you believe your short time on earth is all you have. --- Two things I find wrong with this, and I come across this a lot when arguing with Theists. The first is, it's simply not true. Altruism has a logical basis. The second is that you seem to think that I must 'live in the present'. Also not true. I can think beyond myself, and I am accepting of the fact that I will not live forever. I try to treat others with respect and kindness. I try to act in ways that will leave the world in a better place than how I found it. I care about this country, and I talk about conservative ideas because I believe that these ideas are superior than liberal ones in making this country better for future generations. It's why the conservative notion of low taxes and low spending works--it's not going to saddle our children with debt. This concern is concern for the world after you are gone. It's not 'living in the present' like some people think atheists must live.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 05:55 AM (nUY/O)

262 241 And we're off.

Isn't this where Luther came in?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 09:45 AM (CP+yl) That's why only Lutherans will go to heaven. Unfortunately, we will spend eternity eating potluck with the large amounts of green bean casseroles. Oh well. sarc/o

Posted by: Ammo Dump at May 29, 2012 05:55 AM (YYyqq)

263 ....which were all addressed at the Council of Trent. Did Lutherans return to the fold? Ummm, no.

I don't remember that much of History, but by then the woulds were pretty deep. Also: Power. I'm never going to suggest that the leaders of the Church, especially in the Medieval/Early Modern period weren't a little too concerned with temporal power.

Which is not to say The Church was so bad, itself, but that the legal framework that existed at the time was a positive breeding-ground for corruption.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 05:55 AM (8y9MW)

264 #260 Soap, here is the link - http://tinyurl.com/3hfw986

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 05:55 AM (nfwzc)

265 Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 29, 2012 09:45 AM (GBXon)

There is no argument there that people shouldn't be broadcasting their private info out through an unsecure network.

The argument is whether or not it is legal to intercept it and use it.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 05:56 AM (YdQQY)

266 Which is not to say The Church was so bad, itself, but that the legal framework that existed at the time was a positive breeding-ground for corruption.Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 09:55 AM

Concur. I am still not a fan of drunk, overly scrupulous Augustinian monks though.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 05:57 AM (sbV1u)

267

#263

Definitely return it. The old begger may have it planted to see what fool picks it up, and if not returned he can toy with the fool before slowly, painfully, but inevitably destroying said fool.

Posted by: Mikey NTH needs to buy some Off before sitting outside in the evening at May 29, 2012 05:58 AM (hLRSq)

268 Altruism has a logical basis.

Okay. What is it. A Reader's digest version is fine.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 05:59 AM (8y9MW)

269

Posted by: Ammo Dump at May 29, 2012 09:55 AM (YYyqq) <<<<<<

Green bean buzzard puke is my definition of dining hell.

Posted by: maddogg at May 29, 2012 05:59 AM (OlN4e)

270 Oreos run the world.

Posted by: white black cookies at May 29, 2012 06:00 AM (nrW1y)

271 The Council of Trent was, alas, convened after Luther's death. A more timely response could have been better.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 06:00 AM (O3R/2)

272 Maddog, Hell will be pot luck dinners made from Chicken a'la King MREs.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 06:00 AM (nfwzc)

273 What is the purpose for you leaving the earth in a better place if you no longer exist? How does that help you except maybe to make you feel better. But why does that make you feel better. Where does that conscience come from?

Posted by: polynikes at May 29, 2012 06:02 AM (bPvWY)

274

So Gabe's position is that anyone is allowed to record and KEEP any emanations from your house without regard to technology required to do so. So, in Gabe's view, someone could use a parabolic microphone to record conversations taking place in your house because the recording was taking place outside your house.

What Google did was far beyond their stated purpose. If you want to see if there is a WiFi network, there are very simple ways to do that WITHOUT recording everything that's being transmitted across that network. If you're one of the many who have a WiFi-enabled smartphone or an iPod Touch (or similar), all you have to do is go into your WiFi settings, and you will see a list of available networks including a status indicating whether that network is locked or unlocked. There is no option in your WiFi settings to start recording all the traffic moving back and forth across that network

This issue has already been addressed with regards to the couple who recorded Newt Gingrich's cell phone call way back when. A relevant quote from that coverage:

The Martins' attorney, Larry Turner, said it's illegal under federal and Florida law to eavesdrop on regular or cell phone conversations, and there is a chance the couple will be prosecuted. Asked if she was concerned about that, an obviously nervous Mrs. Martin said, "Yeah. I guess we have to be."

Posted by: OCBill at May 29, 2012 06:02 AM (MiSre)

275 A more timely response could have been better.Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 10:00 AM (O3R/2)

True. Think of the Catholic Church as an aircraft carrier.

It take a LOT of water to turn that sucker around.

Hell, they didn't figure out the Trinity for 400 years.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 06:02 AM (sbV1u)

276

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 10:00 AM (nfwzc) <<<<<

Still better than green bean buzzard puke.

Posted by: maddogg at May 29, 2012 06:02 AM (OlN4e)

277 #274 Soap, Ayup.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 06:02 AM (nfwzc)

278 I love a good potluck, as long as there is dog on the menu!! Yum!

Posted by: Barky O'Marxist at May 29, 2012 06:02 AM (YYyqq)

279 I would absolutely return Bill Gates' wallet. More because not doing so would "bother" me. The money isn't mine so why would I keep it? I know he doesn't need it but I don't need the feeling of being dishonest hanging on my conscience.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 06:03 AM (Z5iSP)

280 charlescwcooke In which I cook Elizabeth Warren's recipes from the "Pow Wow Chow" cookbook and write about it on @NRO: http://t.co/QXO66jzY Worth a read.

Posted by: Y-not despises the SCOAMF at May 29, 2012 06:03 AM (5H6zj)

281 But Dewhurst made some very bad calls, politically, in the last legislative session, including killing some bills that Conservatives really, really wanted.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 09:25 AM (8y9MW)

-------

I have been hearing a lot of criticism of a generic nature that Dewhurst has betrayed conservatives on a lot of bills without the much detail on what those were.

Two I know of involved illegal immigration. One was a bill to disallow in-state tuition for illegals and the other to do something against sanctuary cities.

He was also criticized for killing the ant-TSA-groping bill.

I do not know what his other sins wee supposed to be. All in all I don't think he or Cruz have run a particularly effective campaigns. That is, as an interested conservative I have been given no reason to prefer one over the other.

Posted by: RioBravo at May 29, 2012 06:03 AM (eEfYn)

282 Nothing can out drek Ham and Lima bean C RAT.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 06:04 AM (CP+yl)

283 Hell, they didn't figure out the Trinity for 400 years.
--
As convoluted as it is, that is actually an impressive time-frame in my view.

Posted by: RioBravo at May 29, 2012 06:04 AM (eEfYn)

284 Eh. Stop bashing each other and start bashing the lefties. More fun, less annoying.

Posted by: joncelli, heartless Con and all around unpleasant guy at May 29, 2012 06:05 AM (RD7QR)

285 @271: Jeremy Bentham's calculus: 'The greatest good for the greatest number.' He believed that sacrifice was the most logical way for someone to behave. I don't subscribe to this point of view 100%, but it works somewhat. There are other ways that altruism works. On a biological level, it's one of the reason the human animal has survived all these years. We are one of the best species to work in groups. We do it very well and it has greatly contributed to our evolution.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 06:05 AM (nUY/O)

286 @FoxBusiness Breaking: Consumer confidence skids to lowest level since January in May, Conference Board says. Economists expected slight increase

Posted by: Y-not despises the SCOAMF at May 29, 2012 06:06 AM (5H6zj)

287 Just a general point the Bible is 1000s of years of experience collected in a single book. That when used as a guideline will more often than not serve even a atheist well. I'm more agnostic and started reading the bible so I could have real discussions with a friend of mine that was an evangelical.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at May 29, 2012 06:06 AM (tf9Ne)

288

#255 you would be doing it solely for your self interest. Let's change it to George Soro's wallet.

It would need to be examined in a sterile environment so as not to infect anyone with Communist Cooties.

Whazzup, y'all?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 29, 2012 06:07 AM (d0Tfm)

289 @288 +1 If someone manages to live a good life without the benefit of knowing God, I think that's something worthy of praise, not criticism.

Posted by: Y-not despises the SCOAMF at May 29, 2012 06:07 AM (5H6zj)

290 Consumer confidence skids to lowest level since January in May, Conference Board says. Economists expected slight increase

Posted by: Y-not despises the SCOAMF at May 29, 2012 10:06 AM (5H6zj)

But USA Today says we are just fine. See comment 10. (if you haven't already)

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 06:08 AM (YdQQY)

291 Who ARE all these experts? Especially economists?

We hardly ever see these cokesockers. Yet they've got more projections, therories and expectations than a 5 year old the day before christmas.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 06:08 AM (CP+yl)

292 TX Primary today.

F'ing Rick Perry wasn't even on the ballot. Oh well, I've been voting for him for gov since 2000.

Another vote for Cruz. And if you're in Dist.19, vote for Winn. Put a little scare into Nougatbar.

Posted by: jimmuy at May 29, 2012 06:08 AM (kSaUf)

293 What is the purpose for you leaving the earth in a better place if you no longer exist? How does that help you except maybe to make you feel better. But why does that make you feel better. Where does that conscience come from? --- I think it's human nature. Literally. It's a biological instinct. Most species don't have it, but we do and it's one of the reasons we are the most advanced species on the planet. I think it really boils down to an instinctual biological mechanism.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 06:08 AM (nUY/O)

294 Breaking: Consumer confidence skids to lowest level since January in May, Conference Board says. Economists expected slight increasePosted by: Y-not despises the SCOAMF at May 29, 2012 10:06 AM

The prospect of a (now) unrestrained Marxist in the White House has a tendency to cause depression.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 06:08 AM (sbV1u)

295 Sean Bannion brings up a good point. The Catholic Church is very conservative. It really does not like 'change' that much. Vatican II was a pretty smart move, it opened the doors and let stuffiness out; however it let Liberation Theology in and the Church is still trying to stamp out that strange pernicious marriage between Communism and what is really a call for the individual to be generous and take care of their less well off brothers and sisters.

Socialists are always in a rush since they only seem to believe in the material. What they can touch and taste. Which is why the likes of George Soros is getting a bit nervous, Death is approaching for him. He believes Death will give him a big nothingness so he really wants to see his master plan carried out before that happens.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 06:08 AM (nfwzc)

296

With all this commentary about "SWATing" I am suprised none of the bloggers I have seen have talked at all about the root of the problem. Sure, this guy may be a douche, but there are other douches too and if it can happen, it will. People have been using DCFS (child and family services) and it's ilk for years as payback in fueds.

I think the real issue there is police have gotten way too aggressive and frequent with SWAT style tactics and raiding people's homes and pointing guns at them at the drop of a dime. And unless that changes, accidental, wrong door, or abusive raids will only get worse.

Posted by: Entropy at May 29, 2012 06:08 AM (TULs6)

297 I do not know what his other sins wee supposed to be.

It's a combination of those and what he did with committee chair assignments (the same thing the Speaker of the House did, btw- but we called him a RINO, too). In the Texas Legislature, it is traditional to portion our the chairmanships of the various committees proportionally- that is, if 55% of the House or Senate is R, then R's get 55% of the committee chairs, and the D's would get 45% of them. This has been true for at least the last generation or more.

However, in light of ObamaCare and a variety of things at the National Level, the grass-roots Republicans have tired of that tradition, and wanted our elected leadership to appoint all Republican committee chairs.

But, you're right, I don't see all that much daylight between Cruz and Dewhurst. For that matter, the only one I actively wish weren't in the race is Mr. James, since, as far as I know, he's never held any political office of any type, and is asking us to make him one of the most powerful men in the country.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 06:09 AM (8y9MW)

298 Any time you see an article quoting "unnamed experts" you can bet that it is the reporter himself or one of his colleagues.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 06:09 AM (YdQQY)

299 298 joffen a biological instinct placed there by God.....we were made in His image and we were placed here to know Him, to love Him, to serve Him in this world and to be with Him in the next........

Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 29, 2012 06:10 AM (Ho2rs)

300 301
Exactly. Whatever happened to knocking on the door? And waiting for the occupant to answer?

Posted by: RioBravo at May 29, 2012 06:11 AM (eEfYn)

301 I would absolutely return Bill Gates' wallet. More because not doing so would "bother" me. The money isn't mine so why would I keep it? I know he doesn't need it but I don't need the feeling of being dishonest hanging on my conscience.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 10:03 AM (Z5iSP)

That's the right answer imo. Unfortunately the left is out to eradicate that feeling of guilt which is tied into knowing the difference between right and wrong. When you lose part of that "bothered" feeling you lose part of your soul.

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 29, 2012 06:11 AM (7Ph7Z)

302 Crackers got promoted over me too.

Posted by: white black cookies at May 29, 2012 06:11 AM (nrW1y)

303 Sean Bannion brings up a good point. The Catholic Church is very conservative. It really does not like 'change' that much. Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 10:08 AM (nfwzc)

Well, if you're convinced you have a pretty good idea of what truth is because you've had your very best minds working on it for 2,000 years, you tend not to be in a hurry to change.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 06:12 AM (sbV1u)

304 One of the reasons for the increased force that police departments exert is they're getting more money from the feds for homeland security and the seizure of property (without trial) of so called proceeds from drugs. It's free money and they get to spend it anyway they want.

That's why every little podunk has a swat team and a bunch of barney fife's manning it. That's when things can get hairy.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 06:13 AM (CP+yl)

305 The idea of George Soros being a heartbeat away from a Cardiac Infarction or a Stroke puts a shit-eating grin on my face.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 06:13 AM (O3R/2)

306 304 That's right. That "biological instinct" is called Natural Law and was written about at length by Thomas Aquinas. Otherwise, why would you have a conscience? Those electrical impulses evolved very oddly with no direction?

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 06:14 AM (Z5iSP)

307 Brother Cavil, freq. hopping in WWII? Talking of the German plane launched missiles or the USAAF experiments?

Further actually, and the example I immediately was referring to was U.S. Patent 2,292,387, intended for secure radio guidance for torpedoes. There was also SIGSALY that the Signal Corps was putting together, and a handful of patents in the 30s and, actually, some work back to 1908. The bottom line is it's older than you think, and as usual it seems to have gotten its jumpstart from military application.

As to intercepting, recording, and using publicly broadcast signals, if the use the information is put to would be otherwise illegal, or done in a manner the interceptor has reason to believe would result into harm to the parties involved, yeah, that's a problem. That being said, if the folks had secured the networks they wouldn't be in this mess, so my ability to sympathize with their arguments is minimal at best. (This is one of those 'take the warning labels off everything' moments for me. We've coddled the stupid for far too long.)

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 29, 2012 06:16 AM (GBXon)

308 Those electrical impulses evolved very oddly with no direction?
-
Yes, similar to the evolution of this thread.

Posted by: RioBravo at May 29, 2012 06:17 AM (eEfYn)

309 "Allen said upgrading the communications centers' computers to flash an Internet caller's IP address could be helpful in thwarting fraudulent calls. He said an even simpler fix, tweaking the computers to identify calls from Internet telephone services and flash the name of the service provider to dispatchers, can cost under $5,000, but is usually still too costly for many communications centers."
http://tinyurl.com/6uzb3xz

I would think $5000 per 911 system to upgrade to prevent 'swatting' would have been a good use of some of that Stimulus the Democrats tossed around.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 06:17 AM (nfwzc)

310 314 Ahh. We are the appendix.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 06:18 AM (Z5iSP)

311

What is the purpose for you leaving the earth in a better place if you no longer exist?

Your spirit (or soul, if you prefer) will still exist after you die, just not in this particular plane. You are kept separate from Heaven on purpose, to test which way your soul is inclined, towards goodness and mercy, or not.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 29, 2012 06:18 AM (d0Tfm)

312 Those electrical impulses evolved very oddly with no direction? ---- It wasn't odd at all. It is what allowed us to survive. Evolution natural selection.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 06:18 AM (nUY/O)

313 Malor: "In fact, what Google did was simply record everything that unlocked wifi networks transmitted while the Google Street View car was in range..."

And the retaining of that information for whatever reason was improper. It's questionable enough to ID residential/private wifi hotspots to announce to others (probably) in extremely public manner their status; it's an order of magnitude worse for Google to store that data for whatever future purpose rather than just note the node and then dump the data which was acquired.

If you go through my unsecured trash sitting by the curb (without a warrant), you're breaking the law. Pretty much the same thing with bits and bytes that travel through the air with the caveat that if your node is too close to the street and the device signal is strong enough, it might enter public space. It doesn't make it right that others may exploit the ignorant people who might be technically challenged. They don't "deserve" theft of service or property just for not being technologically savvy.

I still hope Google (and anyone else wardriving) gets absolutely hammered by litigation.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 29, 2012 06:19 AM (eHIJJ)

314 Like I have said before, allowing SWAT teams to assault a house without warrant based upon a cell phone call (Cell phone numbers are easily spoofed) is bullshit.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 06:19 AM (O3R/2)

315 The "conscience" is the outgrowth of part of the nervous system that acts as an impulse control. Experiences (particularly negative ones) impact this part of the system and create pathways that cause reactions within the system reminding the subject that "bad things" happened when similar events took place in the past.

Call it an eeprom programmed by external stimuli.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 06:19 AM (CP+yl)

316

George Soros is a textbook example of enduring evil.

Posted by: maddogg at May 29, 2012 06:20 AM (OlN4e)

317

Let's change it to George Soro's wallet.<<<<

I'd give it back because I don't take what isn't mine. Or hold the fucking clipboard to help murderers inventory the stolen property of their victims.

And I'd tell him that.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 29, 2012 06:20 AM (Cc9g8)

318 Brother Cavil, interesting. Just like the Kettering is the true ancestor of the V-1 and later cruise missiles. The idea existed but the technology was not really up to the task yet.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 06:20 AM (nfwzc)

319 What is the purpose for you leaving the earth in a better place if you no longer exist?

Uh, out of love for your grandchildren?

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 06:21 AM (O3R/2)

320 patterico issued a correction...it wasn't swat it was on duty officers that responded......

Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 29, 2012 06:21 AM (Ho2rs)

321 Yeah, I'm not sure the "freely available" standard for people's wireless transmissions really applies. Google seems to have violated the law Vic cited, imho. Kind of related. If someone else's mail is delivered to your mailbox or if you find it on the street, can you read it?

Posted by: Y-not despises the SCOAMF at May 29, 2012 06:22 AM (5H6zj)

322 Consumer confidence skids to lowest level since January in May, Conference Board says. Economists expected slight increase

Posted by: Y-not despises the SCOAMF at May 29, 2012 10:06 AM (5H6zj)

How can that be? We've had Recover Summer, Recovery Summer II: The Economy Strikes Back and Recovery Summer III: The Return of the Market. We are in an economic golden age so it must be due to RACISM

Posted by: TheQuietMan at May 29, 2012 06:22 AM (1Jaio)

323 Or hold the fucking clipboard to help murderers inventory the stolen property of their victims.And I'd tell him that.Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 29, 2012 10:20 AM

If there is one thing you remember from your days in the Army it's this...

The guy with the clipboard is always the guy in charge.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 06:22 AM (sbV1u)

324 180 "Joffen I think conservative atheists are thankfully leading an illogical life. If you're being logical, an atheist should lead their life based on only what is in their self interest".

I am VERY impressed with atheist that do lead a moral life.

If one understands the true significance of no afterlife, then one realizes that there is no such thing as good or evil - or even meaning in life. Once one dies, they are out of existence for all the rest of the endless eternities ahead of us. Dr. Hawkin, as an atheist, seems to get it, but I think many atheist do not fully understand what their belief implies if true.

For those that believe that their is an afterlife, even the small changes in the course of our lives here can have huge effects "downstream". Thus believers in an afterlife have real motivation to choose the right.

Posted by: Evan at May 29, 2012 06:23 AM (zmvcV)

325 Uh, out of love for your grandchildren?Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 10:21 AM (O3R/2)

And for those with no children?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 06:23 AM (sbV1u)

326 Actually going through unsecured curbside trash is legal. The courts ruled on that when police searched someone's trash without a warrant and layers moved to strike the evidence. The court ruled that unsecured roadside trash had no expectation of privacy.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 06:23 AM (YdQQY)

327 Brother Cavil, interesting. Just like the Kettering is the true ancestor of the V-1 and later cruise missiles. The idea existed but the technology was not really up to the task yet.

No kidding. The early example I was citing used player piano mechanisms to do the job. (The Navy declined the scheme at the time. Eventually a refined version was used in the '62 blockade, but the patent was expired by then.)

Kinda easy to see why it didn't take off at the time...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 29, 2012 06:23 AM (GBXon)

328 Player piano parts in those horrid Bliss-Levit aerial torpedoes... that would really have mocked Murphy.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 06:25 AM (nfwzc)

329 Are there pro-life atheists and if so why? (Hint: I was very pro-life when I was an atheist).

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 06:26 AM (Z5iSP)

330 If the soul is not immortal and there is no afterlife, then nothing matters.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 06:26 AM (O3R/2)

331

Finding Gates wallet with 5k in it, and would you give it back? Just the story is worth 5k, so probably. I can see it now, sitting around BS'ing, your buddy starts to tell the story of the wallet he found, and you can come back with, sheeeeit! I found Bill Gates Wallet....

Not that I'm a one upper.

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 06:26 AM (cWkOB)

332 About Dr. Hawking, I think it's a crying shame that he closed his mind.http://tinyurl.com/88bqw6r

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 29, 2012 06:27 AM (d0Tfm)

333 So wrong about the wifi access not being trespass. Accessing someone else's wifi has been held to be trespass in a number of cases (google it). It is not the same as overhearing a conversation. Google had to take extra steps to "hear." Google didn't just "hear" either, it recorded those conversations.

Think about the implications for criminal law. No warrant needed for law enforcement to monitor your network if only you fail to lock it. I would rather compare the situation to that in Kyllo (Supreme Court sayed warrant needed to detect heat coming from houses).

The use of the word "download" is not a "gross mischaracterization." You say it "implies that Google went into unlocked systems and took the data." If by "went into," you mean "accessed" and by "took" you mean "took," then yeah, that's what google did. "Download" is the receipt of data from another computer. As a general matter we differentiate between data we merely view over the web, even where technically downloaded, and data we save onto our computer. In any event, google SAVED the data!

You simply couldn't be more wrong, Mr. Malor.

Posted by: Crispian at May 29, 2012 06:27 AM (+r6FI)

334 dagny,

It goes like this. This life is all a person gets. Denying a person their life is wrong.

I didn't say it was compelling.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 06:28 AM (O3R/2)

335 Religion is death insurance and a powerful social unifier and stabilizer. All religions are human inventions. Science has revealed what we really are (talking apes) and how we really got here (Evolution). Every religion except those that are vague enough to dodge the truth will eventually go extinct.

Posted by: eman at May 29, 2012 06:28 AM (6KkLK)

336 Why would they have a DMV in New Caprica City?

Someone going to pull over a Cylon for DWI? Missing shuttle registration? No liability insurance? (cripes. I wouldn't want to pay THAT bill)

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 06:29 AM (CP+yl)

337 Speaking of evolution, I am with Douglas Adams. Leaving the trees was a mistake.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 06:29 AM (nfwzc)

338 All ~~religions~~ churches are human inventions.

FIFY

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 06:29 AM (sbV1u)

339 Nietzsche is dead.

Posted by: God at May 29, 2012 06:30 AM (O3R/2)

340 Someone going to pull over a Cylon for DWI? Missing shuttle registration? No liability insurance? (cripes. I wouldn't want to pay THAT bill)
Posted by: Bitter Clinger

Next on <i>New Caprica's Wildest Police Videos</i> - Cylon Toaster driving under too much juice.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 06:31 AM (nfwzc)

341 Science has revealed what we really are (talking apes) and how we really got here (Evolution).

Answer me these, then:
A) How did life arise? Do you believe that life can arise from non-life?
B) How did the Universe get here? We know it's finite, which means it has a beginning- what caused that beginning?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 06:31 AM (8y9MW)

342 I do not try to be kind or good because I believe in God and the Afterlife.

I believe in Them, because I am good and caring and kind. I credit God for giving me these qualities.

I look at all the Good in this shitty world and I think, 'That's His Masterpiece.'

Posted by: momma at May 29, 2012 06:32 AM (oKsWl)

343 Denying a person their life is wrong.

What's wrong?

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 06:32 AM (Z5iSP)

344 Science has revealed what we really are (talking apes) and how we really got here (Evolution).

Every religion except those that are vague enough to dodge the truth will eventually go extinct.

Posted by: eman at May 29, 2012 10:28 AM (6KkLK)

------

If by revealed you mean "wild guessed" then yes. Other than that I'm not aware of science proving any species has evolved into another species.

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 06:32 AM (cWkOB)

345 Thus believers in an afterlife have real motivation to choose the right. Posted by: Evan at May 29, 2012 10:23 AM (zmvcV) Right, and it is effective even if the afterlife is not real.

Posted by: eman at May 29, 2012 06:32 AM (6KkLK)

346 God is a lie. Prove me wrong.

Posted by: Neitzsche at May 29, 2012 06:33 AM (CP+yl)

347 So they found the missing link? Why wasn't it on the news?

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 06:33 AM (Z5iSP)

348 It goes like this. This life is all a person gets. Denying a person their life is wrong. I didn't say it was compelling. Jimbo I'd say that is VERY compelling.

Posted by: BlackOrchid at May 29, 2012 06:34 AM (SB0V2)

349
All religions are human inventions.

Science has revealed what we really are (talking apes) and how we really got here (Evolution).

Every religion except those that are vague enough to dodge the truth will eventually go extinct.

Hear ye hear ye for the one true religion! Humans are but apes, the product of time multipled by chance. Let all the other religions look and weep, for they are doomed to destruction as Science reveals all!

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 06:34 AM (MMM7r)

350 Do we have too much time on our hands or what?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 06:35 AM (CP+yl)

351 Altruism allowed humans to hunt better because they hunted in groups. This allowed our species to adapt better, and therefore to survive. Now, you can say, "well if the various species competed for shrinking resources, why didn't humans kill each other to survive?" I would say, "well, they did and we still do." However, if we had adapted in such a way as to treat all other humans as a competitor over finite resources, we would not be here today.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 06:35 AM (nUY/O)

352 As a long time Romney supporter, it is good see that he is finally getting the official nod to being our nominee.

Now I bet the Paulistinians are still going to be claiming fraud and that Paul really won. Question for the group - do you think Paul free world, Paulbots would more likely to go for Obama, Romney or Roseann Barr?

Posted by: Evan at May 29, 2012 06:35 AM (zmvcV)

353 Well, it's a damn good thing that the "scientists" were working on finding the missing link and not global warming that week. They've answered all the eternal questions. Better go buy some carbon credits now.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 06:35 AM (Z5iSP)

354 atheism \ā-thē-i-zəm\ : The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 06:35 AM (sbV1u)

355 You are kept separate from Heaven on purpose, to test which way your soul is inclined, towards goodness and mercy, or not.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 29, 2012 10:18 AM (d0Tfm)

You have completely lost me, are you saying that after you die that there is a test to see if you get to go to heaven?

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 29, 2012 06:36 AM (mFxQX)

356 You might be a fucking chimp but I'm not.

Posted by: soothsayer at May 29, 2012 06:36 AM (vyPsz)

357 "Romney on the support of Birther Trump: "You know I donÂ’t agree with all the people who support me and my guess is they donÂ’t all agree with everything I believe in. . . . But I need to get 50.1 percent or more and I'm appreciative to have the help of a lot of good people." 'Scuse me -- Obama brags on his literary website for 16 years that he was "born in Kenya" and is going to continue to demonize people for believing his lie? No, I don't think so. Eventually a few real (right-wing) journalists are going to ambush his agent and grill her about that little "fact-checking" error that started the birther movement. And hey, isn't some soldier in jail for believing Obama's original story? Time to petition for a pardon.

Posted by: Average Joe at May 29, 2012 06:36 AM (bN5ZU)

358 What about the reference to Â“DXMÂ” in TrayvonÂ’s Facebook history ?

As in Robittussin DM. They certainly don't want Trayvon's character on trial.

Posted by: Jared Loughner at May 29, 2012 06:37 AM (e8kgV)

359 Allow me to remind our atheist friends of the first rule of making your point:

Don't be a jerk about it.

Allow me to remind my fellow believers of the second rule:

That goes for you, too.

Very well then, carry on all. Try not to burn the joint down, willya?

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 29, 2012 06:37 AM (GBXon)

360 I only believe in Obama.

He is going to save the world.

*just typing that make bile rise to my throat.

Posted by: momma at May 29, 2012 06:37 AM (oKsWl)

361 Isn't that a circular argument:

We must have evolved because we adapted.

We must have adapted because we evolved.

I understand the idea, it's the implementation (and the time involved) for the various "adaptations" to take effect) that bothers me.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 06:38 AM (CP+yl)

362 If the soul is not immortal and there is no afterlife, then nothing matters. Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 10:26 AM (O3R/2) Maybe, or maybe it's just harder to see what matters. When you can embrace you mortality and not let it drive you mad, you have won.

Posted by: eman at May 29, 2012 06:38 AM (6KkLK)

363 You have completely lost me, are you saying that after you die that there is a test to see if you get to go to heaven?

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 29, 2012 10:36 AM (mFxQX)

Yep. Here's the 0ne question test:

'Did you vote for Obama?'

Posted by: momma at May 29, 2012 06:38 AM (oKsWl)

364 Let all the other religions look and weep, for they are doomed to destruction as Science reveals all!>>>>

You shall have no other taxes before ours

Posted by: UN Climate Council at May 29, 2012 06:38 AM (tf9Ne)

365 Other than that I'm not aware of science proving any species has evolved into another species. --- We are not apes. Apes and humans share a common ancestor. This is proven by genetics, archaeology, geography and a host of other scientific areas.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 06:38 AM (nUY/O)

366 "If there is no God, everything is permitted" -Dostoevsky

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 06:39 AM (O3R/2)

367

Posted by: momma at May 29, 2012 10:38 AM (oKsWl)

Thanks Momma

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 29, 2012 06:39 AM (mFxQX)

368 HEY! I wasn't told there'd be a TEST!!!!

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 06:39 AM (CP+yl)

369 When President Obama gave the commencement address last week at the Air Force Academy, he congratulated the cadets for excelling at one of the most demanding schools in the country.

But decades after Mr. Obama completed his own college course work, his academic performance is still a mystery. Before and after his election as president, Mr. Obama has refused to release his college transcripts from his days as an undergraduate and a law school student.

Most presidentsÂ’ academic records are made public by the time they reach the highest office in the land, either with their consent or by someone else digging them up.

Â“ThereÂ’s no reason why people shouldnÂ’t know,Â” said Stephen Hess, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution who focuses on the presidency. Â“At this point, itÂ’s pretty moot Â— perhaps amusing if it turned out that he didnÂ’t do very well.Â”

But whenever Team Obama is asked about the presidentÂ’s college performance, officials dodge the question, obviously with Mr. ObamaÂ’s blessing.

----

I bet he never took economics or got a "D"

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at May 29, 2012 06:40 AM (e8kgV)

370 HEY! I wasn't told there'd be a TEST!!!!Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 10:39 AM (CP+yl)

Time! Close your blue books and put down your pencils.

Posted by: God at May 29, 2012 06:40 AM (sbV1u)

371 A question of etiquette:

I was in a Barnes & Noble last week and walked past a book titled:

"Commander in Chic."

It was about Moochelle Obama.

It is polite to vomit directly on the book, or should I wait to speak with the manager and then puke on him?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 29, 2012 06:40 AM (nEUpB)

372 The evidence supporting evolution is on par with the evidence for gravity.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 06:41 AM (nUY/O)

373 One of my biggest complaints about Futuristic Sci-Fi is the expectation that Christianity will collapse sometime between now and 2400 or 2800 or 3200 CE.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 06:42 AM (O3R/2)

374 #381 Repeatedly over all books with that title. When the staff ask what is wrong just say the arugula you just ate disagreed with you.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 06:42 AM (nfwzc)

375 CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative)

Do both just in case.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 06:43 AM (CP+yl)

376 He maketh me to lie down and have babies...

Posted by: The "stash" chick from Detroit at May 29, 2012 10:40 AM (vbh31)

So.....you want to be 'punished'?

Posted by: momma at May 29, 2012 06:43 AM (oKsWl)

377 The evidence supporting evolution is on par with the evidence for gravity.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 10:41 AM (nUY/O

It's more on par with the evidence supporting a god.

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 06:43 AM (cWkOB)

378 Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 10:41 AM (nUY/O)

Of course. But people conflate evolution with the many theories that explain it. Darwin had a theory to explain the fact of evolution. Gould had a theory, etc.

But evolution is as close to unassailable as anything in science.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 29, 2012 06:43 AM (nEUpB)

379 It is polite to vomit directly on the book, or should I wait to speak with the manager and then puke on him?

Two questions: Was the book just displayed, or was it "Featured?" Did you have enough in your stomach to do both?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 06:44 AM (8y9MW)

380 Jimbo, yes many expect we will have achieved our own clockwork god by the time we reach the stars. Put in the correct information, press a button, and presto science will provide the solution. That is what Dr. Stephen Hawkings is looking for, the last few cogs for a clockwork god.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 06:44 AM (nfwzc)

381 Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 10:43 AM (cWkOB)

Care to explain?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 29, 2012 06:44 AM (nEUpB)

382

If there is one thing you remember from your days in the Army it's this...

The guy with the clipboard is always the guy in charge.<><<

Actually, I learned that the guy with the clipboard was usually doing a PMCS on a Bradley, Hummer or deuce and a half.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 29, 2012 06:45 AM (Cc9g8)

383 But whenever Team Obama is asked about the presidentÂ’s college performance, officials dodge the question, obviously with Mr. ObamaÂ’s blessing.Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at May 29, 2012 10:40 AM

The guy quoted in the piece is right, it would be kind of humorous if he was marginal and still managed to make it to the Presidency. (Humorous to him....to the rest of us it's a frickin' millstone...)

For JEF the problem is probably less the grades than the actual courses he took and the profs he had. The transcript would doubtlessly confirm that he majored in "Applied Socialism" and I bet that's the reason he won't release it.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 06:45 AM (sbV1u)

384 It's more on par with the evidence supporting a god. ---- Really? How so? I don't see how it's possible. That being said, it is simply not possible to use evolution to prove the non-existence of God.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 06:45 AM (nUY/O)

385 We are not apes. Apes and humans share a common ancestor. This is proven by genetics, archaeology, geography and a host of other scientific areas.

Apes are considered more primitive than us (do they have Internets or lolcats?).     Since apes are "simpler" than humans, what would that (supposed) common ancestor look like but a "more primitive" ape?

Common ancestry is a historical event.   For it to be proven, it must be observed and recorded by a reliable witness.   Everything else is just (educated/wild-ass) guessing.

As for your list of evidence, common genetics can be evidence for a common ancestor, or a common designer. I don't see the relevance of the other items of the list to common ancestry.    (For one, archaeology is the study of humans, not non-humans)

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 06:46 AM (MMM7r)

386 382

Um NO.

Even Darwin himself that without a clear fossil record his "theory" was bunk.

So far there have been NO precursor species found. No fossils showing the various stages between adaptations.

I recognize that the theory could still be true, there just is no way to ever find enough evidence. That still doesn't mean the theory is valid.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 06:46 AM (CP+yl)

387 Actually, I learned that the guy with the clipboard was usually doing a PMCS on a Bradley, Hummer or deuce and a half.Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 29, 2012 10:45 AM

Ah, I remember it well - "tanker work" - one guy works, three guys supervise.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 06:46 AM (sbV1u)

388 The evidence supporting evolution is on par with the evidence for gravity.

It is? Please cite one known instance of one species evolving into a completely new species. Also: please supply evidence that life can arise from non-life. By the way, Zombie Louis Pasteur would like to have some words with you if you have any such evidence.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 06:46 AM (8y9MW)

389 My brother-in-law of 42 years had an affair with a Malaysian broad in Brunai and brings her back home. I'm explaining to my kid why we won't see him anymore--He did a very bad thing.--Kid says, "Gasp, did he vote for Obama?" "No, honey, nothing that bad."

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 06:46 AM (Z5iSP)

390

We are not apes. Apes and humans share a common ancestor. This is proven by genetics, archaeology, geography and a host of other scientific areas.

----

Humans evolved from apes to have LESS genes than apes? Sorry, I'm not buying any of it. There's supposedly about as much difference in the DNA as humans and (pick any other mammal).

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 06:47 AM (cWkOB)

391 Damn, I missed all the coverage of the missing link!!!

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 06:48 AM (Z5iSP)

392 He leadeth me to the food stamp line at the grocery store...

Posted by: The "stash" chick from Detroit at May 29, 2012 10:46 AM (vbh31)

He leadeth me to the unemployment line....

Posted by: momma at May 29, 2012 06:48 AM (oKsWl)

393 Did you see the article on breitbart.com? The avg SAT score for transfer students into Columbia that year was 1100.

1100. He was smoking pot in both HS and Occidental.

He hasn't taken a math course since 10th grade.

He's not "the smarted man in the room." He's a fucking Con-man.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 06:48 AM (O3R/2)

394 I thought Charlie Rangel or Joe Biden were the missing link?

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 06:48 AM (nfwzc)

395 372 You have completely lost me, are you saying that after you die that there is a test to see if you get to go to heaven?

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 29, 2012 10:36 AM (mFxQX)

Yep. Here's the 0ne question test:
'Did you vote for Obama?'

Posted by: momma at May 29, 2012 10:38 AM (oKsWl)

What a relief! Been afraid there might be a math question.

Posted by: Ammo Dump at May 29, 2012 06:49 AM (YYyqq)

396 Maybe, or maybe it's just harder to see what matters.

When you can embrace you mortality and not let it drive you mad, you have won.

What do I win? Who's keeping score? Why not madness?

What does a short moment of time during the lifespan of the universe matter after its heat death?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 06:49 AM (MMM7r)

397 Damn this blog just got a little bit tight. Does this comment make me look fat?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 06:49 AM (CP+yl)

398 @374 - The fossil record has many gaps that our filled in, even a fossil record showing some of the early reptiles developing into mammals. The info you are basing this on is old and as time goes on, more and more gaps get filled. I do not believe it a good idea to believe in a "God of the gaps" as those gaps get smaller and smaller with time.

Having had many personal (and shared) experiences that have confirmed to me that their is God and we have a purpose here, I will say that it is dead end to argue against evolutionary processes. The way Genesis is over interpreted by some has lead to the mistaken belief that one must either believe in the Age of Rocks or the Rock of Ages.

Now to get into a full blown theological discussion on this issue goes beyond the nature of this humble blog.

Posted by: Evan at May 29, 2012 06:50 AM (zmvcV)

399 I thought Charlie Rangel or Joe Biden were the missing link?

Dennis Kucinich and Luap Nor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 06:50 AM (8y9MW)

400 Answer me these, then: A) How did life arise? Do you believe that life can arise from non-life? B) How did the Universe get here? We know it's finite, which means it has a beginning- what caused that beginning? Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 10:31 AM (8y9MW) Those two items are not part of the Theory of Evolution. The Abiogenesis Hypothesis says life arose from non life (my hyphen key is dead) by a series of natural processes. Remember, the life we have today, even the simplest form, is highly advanced. The first life forms would have been very inefficient and sloppy in comparison. The evidence we have so far shows the components of life arise from natural materials via natural processes. We have not observed them coming together to for living things, yet. But, repeating the original experiment will take millions of years, so it is too early to lean one way or the other. As for the Big Bang Theory, our Universe arouse from a quantum fluctuation in Space/time. If you ask where that comes from, the answer we get is: nothing. Perhaps you will say all of this must ultimately end up coming from the hand of God. How will you ever know, and how would such a thing make the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden more credible?

Posted by: eman at May 29, 2012 06:50 AM (6KkLK)

401

You have completely lost me, are you saying that after you die that there is a test to see if you get to go to heaven?

Sorry for the confusion, I should've set that up better.

What I meant to say was that this life is the test. You have so many years to find what you should be looking for, which is a spiritual union with God. This union softens the heart, and allows for the qualities of forgiveness, compassion and empathy. It also imparts great strength of character and enables you to see what is true, and especially what isn't. This is the driving force behind my conservatism.

Only man stands on the edge of two worlds, one spiritual, the other material. We are born into the material, separate from God and Heaven: hence the phrase "born in sin." We must find our way back home in this life, much like the Prodigal Son. It isn't easy, and there are many detours and roadblocks along the way, but if we're grounded in Reality and Truth, we're always shown which way to go thanks to that spiritual union.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 29, 2012 06:50 AM (d0Tfm)

402 fyi, the Catholic Church accepts the theory of evolution as the mechanism by which God created us.

"No. Fuck you. Next question."

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 06:51 AM (O3R/2)

403 Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 29, 2012 10:50 AM (d0Tfm)

Bravo, bravo. I clipped that and I'm keeping it. Awesome summary.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 06:52 AM (sbV1u)

404 Humans and chimps share roughly 97% of the same DNA. Oh, and science can't prove that one species evolved into another species because, according to the theory of evolution, the previous specious would have died off. Science can't prove anything, even gravity. The best science can ever do is show very strong evidence for a theory. People believed in Newtonian physics because it was supported by evidence. That is until Einstein came along and forced a revolution in gravitational thinking. Einstein proved Newton wrong, but he didn't prove gravity wrong. Make sense?

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 06:53 AM (nUY/O)

405 414 fyi, the Catholic Church accepts the theory of evolution as the mechanism by which God created us.

More like it "accepts the possibility" because it is the THEORY of evolution. IOW, the Church is not in conflict with "science" if the science is scientifically valid.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 06:53 AM (Z5iSP)

406 And you know what they say about experiments that cannot be repeated...

Posted by: soothsayer at May 29, 2012 06:53 AM (Ba6aP)

407 And how does a genetic defect not get diluted by half with every generation down the line, even if it turned out to be a beneficial defect. Still not buying it.

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 06:53 AM (cWkOB)

408 fyi, the Catholic Church accepts the theory of evolution as the mechanism by which God created us.

Dead wrong.

You know, I usually make it a point never to discuss Catholic theology with anyone who it completely clueless about it. But I might make an exception here.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 06:54 AM (sbV1u)

409 "I don't know if his gun jammed or if he ran out of bullets, but he stopped shooting. I told him 'You just shot the police.' Then I punched him in his face. He starts yelling, and trying to regain control of the gun. Then he tried to run away. I don't know if he was going to shoot me again, so I pulled out my gun and shot him three times." - Matthews

Officer Matthews now walks with a cane since he took five bullets from Proctor. And the judge gave Proctor, who should have been sentenced to life, to 14 to 25 years. And Matthews lost it in court and berated the judge.
http://tinyurl.com/6paeea7

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 06:55 AM (nfwzc)

410 Fuck China, Russia.

Fuck the UN.

http://tinyurl.com/6ljhmyx
Internet Regulation Returns to the International Agenda

Past attempts by countries like Russia, India and China to expand international authority Â– through the U.N. Â– over the Internet have been unsuccessful, but are expected to make a reappearance at the World Conference of International Telecommunications (WCIT) in Dubai.

The conference is being organized by the International Telecommunication Union (ITU), a Geneva-based U.N. specialized agency that has been carrying out a review of international telecommunications regulations. Some of its 193 member states want to expand its authority to include an Internet regulatory role, and neither the U.S. nor any other country would have the power to veto a majority decision.

The House Energy and Commerce subcommittee on communications and technology has scheduled a hearing later this week, entitled Â“International Proposals to Regulate the Internet.Â”

Posted by: momma at May 29, 2012 06:55 AM (oKsWl)

411 fyi, the Catholic Church accepts the theory of evolution as the mechanism by which God created us. ---- If that is true, that would be totally fine and logical. You can accept the theory of evolution and still believe in God.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 06:55 AM (nUY/O)

412 Gabe is absolutely right about the breathless reporting of the Google non-scandal. But an awful lot of people don't seem to know how computers or wifi work. A better analogy would be this: Did anyone ever own a Mr. Microphone? You know, the low-power FM transmitter that let you "sing" through a nearby radio? Would you be outraged to know that other people could hear your rendition of "Billy Jean", too? That's exactly whats' going on here. Unencrypted packets traveling over an unsecured WiFi network are being broadcast just like your cover of "Pour Some Sugar on Me" was. Anyone in the world who is in range can "hear" them and record them.

Posted by: CTD at May 29, 2012 06:55 AM (RurGt)

413 It's 99% of the same DNA and that goes for all the mammals. The separation is the ability to reason about abstracts not opposable thumbs.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 06:55 AM (Z5iSP)

414
Really? How so? I don't see how it's possible. That being said, it is simply not possible to use evolution to prove the non-existence of God.

It's similar in that belief Evolution happened and belief God exists (and created mankind) are competing beliefs for "How did we get here?"   (With some people trying to split the difference and say both are true)

Both are statements on history.   Both require faith that we can take some current observations and make judgements on what happened thousands/millions/billions of years ago.

In contrast, gravity deals with NOW.    How does matter affect other matter NOW.    The theory of gravity isn't interested in the history of how gravity worked X years ago; it's assumed to be constant.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 06:56 AM (MMM7r)

415 Who Created the Extraterrestrial Aliens: God or Evolution?

Film at 11:00.

Posted by: Fritz at May 29, 2012 06:56 AM (/ZZCn)

416 332 I thought this was Summer Recovery III: Electric ~~Boggaloo~~ Buggalo.

-----------

FIFY

Posted by: Amy Wong at May 29, 2012 06:56 AM (6fER6)

417 (my hyphen key is dead) Pry off the keycap with something wide and flat using gentle pressure from the bottom. Laptop keycaps are hinged. Regular keycaps usually pop right off. Check to see if there are crumbs or a hair or something interfering with keypresses.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at May 29, 2012 06:56 AM (p7SSh)

418 The fossil record has many gaps that our filled in, even a fossil record showing some of the early reptiles developing into mammals.

No it doesn't. By definition a fossil cannot tell you whether or not a species was "in transition." And, by the way, the Cambrian Explosion included species of all the major groups (Phyllum? Don't remember my biology) which means that right about then, we suddenly had reptiles and mammals and birds and...

More tellingly: there has never been (to my knowledge) a single specimen of a single "failed species." That is, if Darwinian Evolution is true (rather than ID/Directed Evolution) there should have been untold numbers of species that were completely, or nearly completely, nonviable- and at least one of those should have fossilized, yet we have zero examples.

And Darwinian Evolution still hasn't answered the question of where life came from in the first place.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 06:56 AM (8y9MW)

419

Yaaaay an evolution fight.

If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go outside and play with spiders as that is far less tormenting.

(Turtles all the way down, just sayin')

Posted by: alexthechick at May 29, 2012 06:57 AM (VtjlW)

420 The Church does accept the possibility. We have no ability to grasp the hand of God.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 06:57 AM (Z5iSP)

421 Still waiting for 'the science is settled' to get tossed out there.

Just, y'know, because I expect it.

I'm too sober for this.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 29, 2012 06:57 AM (GBXon)

422 Due to a recent "incident" in Miami, we again stress one should never start with the face. Our protocols clear state "begin with the feet and work your way up." Thank you for your cooperation.

Posted by: Cannibal Union #487 at May 29, 2012 06:58 AM (YYyqq)

423 In lieu of the repeated experiment, we are given the Repeated Theory. This 'scientific' method is quite simple and elegant: Repeat a theory often enough and by many others, the theory is proven and thus settled science.

Posted by: soothsayer at May 29, 2012 06:58 AM (052zE)

424 So far there have been NO precursor species found. No fossils showing the various stages between adaptations. I recognize that the theory could still be true, there just is no way to ever find enough evidence. That still doesn't mean the theory is valid. Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 10:46 AM (CP+yl) Hundreds of transitional fossils have been found. Here is one: Titaalik rosea. This fossil is an excellent example of the transition of lobefinned fishes to tetrapods. It has several fish features (it was a fish), and several features later found only in land dwelling tetrapods. In fact, it has the same bones in its limbs that all tetrapods have, past and present. This is excellent evidence for common ancestry. None of this shows that this animal was the ancestor of anything, instead it shows the kinds of changes that were taking place in the evolution of certain types of fish to tetrapods.

Posted by: eman at May 29, 2012 06:59 AM (6KkLK)

425 Best anology I've read about spontaneous creation of life, with the old lightning bolt theory is that its like saying a tornado can hit a junkyard and sometimes create a fully functioning Boeing 747.

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 07:00 AM (cWkOB)

426 To all those that say science "proves" there is no God - that's garbage and very poor "science". Please do not turn science into dogma to support your religious belief of atheism (yes it is a religious belief because there is no way to prove there is no God - you have to have faith). Evolution in NO WAY says that there is no God - that is your way of philosophising the data.

To those that say there is no evidence that evolution is the means by which life came about on Earth, you are speaking in great ignorance. The theory of evolution is extremely sold in fundation and supported by tons of data. There have been adjustments to the theory over time as new data becomes available, but this is part of a healthy scientific method.

Posted by: Evan at May 29, 2012 07:00 AM (zmvcV)

427 And Darwinian Evolution still hasn't answered the question of where life came from in the first place. ---- That's because it's not the point of Darwinan evolution. Can we please make this clear? Seriously. It's so tiresome. Evolution is NOT the theory of 'how we got here'. It never has been. It is solely an explanation for why there are so many different species. It's as if someone were to criticize the theory of gravity because it doesn't explain why people have different skin colors. It makes no sense.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 07:00 AM (nUY/O)

428 There is much evidence supporting evolution - micro evolution that is. Evolution within a species. Macro-evolution, one species evolving into another? None. Consider DNA. The incredible amount of information (a very important word in this discussion) in one tiny strand. To say that you 'believe' that that could have happened by "accident" is like saying that you believe if you blow up an old fashioned print shop enough times, sooner or later the letters will fall arranged in such a way as to give you the encyclopedia Britannica.

Posted by: teej at May 29, 2012 07:00 AM (sbimF)

429 Did anyone ever own a Mr. Microphone? You know, the low-power FM transmitter that let you "sing" through a nearby radio? Would you be outraged to know that other people could hear your rendition of "Billy Jean", too? That's exactly whats' going on here. Unencrypted packets traveling over an unsecured WiFi network are being broadcast just like your cover of "Pour Some Sugar on Me" was. Anyone in the world who is in range can "hear" them and record them.***

That's still a crapulent analogy. Anyone with working ears and proximity can hear "Billie Jean"; to grab your unencrypted packets requires that you actually have equipment made to do said grabbing.

Posted by: Kerry at May 29, 2012 07:01 AM (a/VXa)

430 Those two items are not part of the Theory of Evolution.

Yes, actually, they are. They are required before Darwin even had "life" to have evolution. Therefor Darwinian Evolution must account for them.

The Abiogenesis Hypothesis says life arose from non life (my hyphen key is dead) by a series of natural processes.

Then what stopped it? And aren't experiments, by definition, directed by an intelligent being. Why is it easier to accept the "just-so" story of Abiogenesis than it is to accept a Creator who created life? Why is Creation more fantastical than something that goes against one of the corner-stones of medical science. Like I said, if life can arise from non-life, Zombie Pasteur would like to speak with you.

As for the Big Bang Theory, our Universe arouse from a quantum fluctuation in Space/time. If you ask where that comes from, the answer we get is: nothing.

False on it's face. Space/Time does not exist without the Universe already present. Since Space and Time are the same thing, and Space doesn't exist without the Universe.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 07:01 AM (8y9MW)

431 You know, those scientists that said the 'science was settled' on AGW actually bolstered the scientific method. They got proven wrong in spite of themselves.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 07:02 AM (nUY/O)

432

And why are cockroaches still the same as they always were?

And is a new thread up yet?

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 07:02 AM (cWkOB)

433 Big Breasted Japanese Women: How did they evolve and can we facilitate the process?

Posted by: Fritz at May 29, 2012 07:03 AM (/ZZCn)

434 That's still a crapulent analogy. Anyone with working ears and proximity can hear "Billie Jean"; to grab your unencrypted packets requires that you actually have equipment made to do said grabbing.

Posted by: Kerry at May 29, 2012 11:01 AM (a/VXa)

Good to know!

Posted by: Billie Jean at May 29, 2012 07:03 AM (YYyqq)

435 and that proves what?

How do you say that because this animal looks like that animal there and that animal there that it's a transition species between them?

Without live specimens you can't. Just admit that you can't prove it and let's move on. It's a useful theory and when in a few thousand more years more info comes to light or better ways of discovering fossils are invented, we'll maybe have an answer.

Until then it is not the equivalent of the knowledge of gravitational force.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 07:04 AM (CP+yl)

436 About Obama's college transcripts--I really have no curiosity about them. He was a black guy named Obama, there was no way any college professor would give him less than an A in everything, regardless of his performance and achievements.

Which means every class he passed and supposedly "learned" from is completely meaningless anyway.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at May 29, 2012 07:05 AM (DuH+r)

437 And to 'prove ' the fragility of life, the eco-meddlers in MA are about to interfere with turtle eggs to help the hatchlings survive. Aren't they interfering with evolution?

Posted by: soothsayer at May 29, 2012 07:05 AM (oB2II)

438 OK, Gabe...so I presume that you'd have no problem whatsoever if I listen in on your cell phone calls. Tell, when I walk into Radio Shack, what do I ask for so I can listen in on cell phone calls?

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at May 29, 2012 07:06 AM (1hM1d)

439 So far there have been NO precursor species found.

Ninja say whut?

*(OK this one may be too obscure.)

Posted by: Daxter* at May 29, 2012 07:06 AM (0Ohos)

440 419 And how does a genetic defect not get diluted by half with every generation down the line, even if it turned out to be a beneficial defect. Still not buying it.

Because they believe that selection pressures make each and every genetic defect a must-have, so those who have a copy of the genetic defect gain such a survival boost that the gene is propagated to the majority of the next generations.

This implies that if evolution were true, one day we will reverse engineer the (probable) genetic mutations that led to us.   We should theoretically be able to recreate all missing links.    After all, each living organism must be able to trace an unbroken lineage to the first living being.   A solution, or a range of them, must exist if evolution is true.   If random chance generated the solution, intelligence backed by massive computing power can surely recreate it.

But considering how minor genetic changes can cause huge defects in human beings, I'm not holding my breath for this to be discovered.   Complex systems do not lend themselves well to random tinkering.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 07:07 AM (MMM7r)

441 About Obama's college transcripts--I really have no curiosity about them. He was a black guy named Obama, there was no way any college professor would give him less than an A in everything, regardless of his performance and achievements. Which means every class he passed and supposedly "learned" from is completely meaningless anyway. Posted by: BeckoningChasm at May 29, 2012 11:05 AM (DuH+r) I'd like to see if he got any Federal Money to attend College because he was a foreign Student in need? Since he was born in the USA, that would be fraud?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 29, 2012 07:07 AM (05RcU)

442 Evolution is NOT the theory of 'how we got here'. It never has been. It is solely an explanation for why there are so many different species.

Except that Darwinian Evolution specifically is the theory of 'how we got here.' At least, what it has become since Darwin's death- but Darwin saw what was happening to his theory (hypothesis, really, but I'll let that go) and did nothing to stop it.

Darwinian Evolution presupposes that there is no God. That is, one of its premises is that God did not create life, that life "evolved" into its current form out of lower life forms. Further, (at least with 'modern' DE), it says that any talk of a Creator or Designer has been 'disproven.'

If you are going to presuppose no God, you then have to explain how there was even a world on which life could evolve.

We have lots of empirical evidence for gravity; more over, we have predictive experiments (if I do X, Y should happen) which have succeeded. We have no such thing with Darwinian Evolution.

Note that I'm not saying some kind of Evolution is impossible, simply that the modern notion of Evolution from Nothing (which, like or not, is what DE has come to be) doesn't hold up.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 07:08 AM (8y9MW)

443 I thought the Futurama evolution episode with the talking orangutang as the proponent of intelligent design was pretty damned funny.

Watched a animation years ago about imaging the 11 dimensions. If there exists a being that can navigate to the 11th dimension (I think that is the one were all possible timelines and all possible universes exists), then it would be nothing for such a being to make this universe.

And when you read up on the musing relating to the Kardashev scale and imagine there are/will be beings who can capture all of the energy in a galaxy or a universe--there would be no limit to their ability to manipulate space and time.

Posted by: jimmuy at May 29, 2012 07:08 AM (kSaUf)

444 445 Big Breasted Japanese Women: How did they evolve and can we facilitate the process?

Posted by: Fritz at May 29, 2012 11:03 AM (/ZZCn)

Don't think implants evolve.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 07:08 AM (Z5iSP)

445 Dagny I think Fritz has found 4Chan.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 07:09 AM (nfwzc)

446 Obama Messes Up Memorial Speech Â– DoesnÂ’t Know Last US Fatality (Video) plus completely wrong on Iraq.

http://tinyurl.com/8x4amfr

Posted by: momma at May 29, 2012 07:09 AM (oKsWl)

447 Saudi Arabians are angry at a McDonaldÂ’s toy which they say mocks their prophet Muhammad. According to a report appearing today (5/27/12) on the Arabic news website, Kermalkom.com, the McDonaldÂ’s fast food restaurant Â“abused the Prophet Muhammad by placing his name at the base of a toy that is being distributed as part of the Happy Meal, a toy which steps on the name Â‘Muhammad.Â’Â”

The toy consists of a blue superhero figurine (apparently a Power Ranger Samurai; click here for pictures). It stands on one leg, and, when the lever is pressed, it pounds on the base with the other leg. According to the Saudis, the designs that appear all around the base, where the figurine stomps its foot, is really the name Â“MuhammadÂ” written several times in circles.

The toy had been distributed a few days before Saudi children and their parents began to take note of the name. Soon thereafter, Saudi Muslims launched several campaigns against McDonaldÂ’s in Â“response to the savage attacks on the noble Prophet,Â” under banners like Â“Help your Prophet!Â” and Â“Together in support of the Prophet.Â”

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at May 29, 2012 07:10 AM (e8kgV)

448 Don't be fooled

Atheism is a religion. There is no evidence. There is just faith.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 07:10 AM (O3R/2)

449 The Saudis say they want some punishment.

I say McDonalds should take one of the toys and publicly cut it's head off. What would they do then?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 07:11 AM (CP+yl)

450 No it doesn't. By definition a fossil cannot tell you whether or not a species was "in transition." And, by the way, the Cambrian Explosion included species of all the major groups (Phyllum? Don't remember my biology) which means that right about then, we suddenly had reptiles and mammals and birds and... More tellingly: there has never been (to my knowledge) a single specimen of a single "failed species." That is, if Darwinian Evolution is true (rather than ID/Directed Evolution) there should have been untold numbers of species that were completely, or nearly completely, nonviable- and at least one of those should have fossilized, yet we have zero examples. And Darwinian Evolution still hasn't answered the question of where life came from in the first place. Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 10:56 AM (8y9MW) First, the Cambrian Explosion took tens of millions of years to happen. No, it did not suddenly produce mammals and reptiles and birds. The rocks from that time contain fossils of muticellular organisms in great abundance. This jump in the fossil signal came from mulicellular organisms developing hard skeletons. Multicellular organisms themselves had been around for millions of years before the Cambrian, but were softbodied and fossilized poorly. This helped to create the illusion that complicated life suddenly sprang into existence. Second, the model you propose about Evolution is not aligned well with the facts. The Theory of Evolution makes no such requirements. I urge you to learn more about the real Theory of Evolution. Third, Evolution is about how life changes over time, it is not about how the life or the Universe came to be.

Posted by: eman at May 29, 2012 07:12 AM (6KkLK)

451 Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 10:47 AM (cWkOB)

99% of the genome is basic stuff, nonsense coding and what is essentially fact-checking software. The 1% is where all of the differences are.

As for the number of chromosomes having anything to do with complexity: that is simply incorrect. There are invertebrates with more chromosomes than man.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 29, 2012 07:12 AM (nEUpB)

452 So if my conscience were functioning properly, I wouldn't ever drink this much again over a weekend. Ugh.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 07:14 AM (Z5iSP)

453 460 Saudi Arabians are angry

Really you could just stop there and get the whole story. They're always finding things to be enraged about. They're incensed they're not living in an Islamic world.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at May 29, 2012 07:14 AM (DuH+r)

454 Note that I'm not saying some kind of Evolution is impossible, simply that the modern notion of Evolution from Nothing (which, like or not, is what DE has come to be) doesn't hold up. ---- Both macro- and micro-evolution old up. Creationists just like to move the bar on what is macro-evolution. They see "little evolution" but move the bar when it comes to explaining "evolution to different types." It's completely unscientific and can never be tested. That is why science better explains the world than theology. Theology can never be tested. It can never be proven wrong and therefore adds literally nothing to the debate. How does God explain the way the world works? Is the Bible a scientific text? Is it? In order to accept the "theory" of ID, you have to first show ample evidence of God's existence. Can you do that? Can you show scientific evidence that God exists? You can't? Oh, wow. I guess that hampers your theory a little bit, huh? Evolution does not need the existence of God to show that it works. Just like the theory of gravity does not need to prove that God exists for it to work. I don't see a lot of people freaking out about the theory of gravity.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 07:15 AM (nUY/O)

455 I say McDonalds should take one of the toys and publicly cut it's head off. What would they do then?Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 11:11 AM

Effin' hilarious. I am now short one Diet Coke. Fortunately my trash can was right next to me as I spewed.

See? There is a God.

Warn a guy next time, will ya?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 07:15 AM (sbV1u)

456

@453

Pretty sure the chicken with the reactivated lizard snout last year quietly proved major evolution from one type to another. Our ancestral DNA shows how we evolved. DNA + time gives us evolution.

Not saying there aren't huge gaps in the fossil record and our understanding of (especially origins of) life generally. But most evidence is destroyed. Unless something is buried in sediment, amber or ash and the rest we'll never find it. Bones out on the plains can become tiny fragments pretty quickly geologically speaking.

It doesn't really matter to me as obviously God created evolution so we could change with our changing environment.

Now back to something important like gay marriage or what the Mormons did in the Nineteenth Century.

Posted by: Beagle at May 29, 2012 07:16 AM (sOtz/)

457

Gabe - your polemical scrant respecting the pure legalities of Google's skullduggery is keeping in tune with your oft contrarian nature which I suspect is how you like to set yourself apart as the deft DC based lawyer of smart in front of us tasteless folk who need to be constantly advised of the predicating nature of the legal nuance that only someone with a corner in the smart department, such as yourself, can provide.

Gabe - c'mon. Try re-reading your google piece and tell me, just tell me you can do so without whincing in embarassment of your patently obtuse reasoning.

-30

Posted by: Journolist at May 29, 2012 07:16 AM (QWOh7)

458 I have the same bullshit detector on religion as I do evolution. For instance, if God supposedly knows it all - he already knew I was going to be a screw up. Why the dog and pony show in between being born and being judged?

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 07:16 AM (cWkOB)

459 >>>457 Don't think implants evolve.
Posted by: dagny

The temptation to submit photographic evidence is almost as compelling as the desire to avoid the banhammer.

Posted by: Fritz at May 29, 2012 07:16 AM (/ZZCn)

460 Gabe - if we don't lock our doors, does that mean we intend for you to enter?

Posted by: Journolist at May 29, 2012 07:18 AM (QWOh7)

461 Third, Evolution is about how life changes over time, it is not about how the life or the Universe came to be.

Except that, inasmuch as Evolution (specifically Modern Darwinian Evolution) insists that there is no God, it must answer those other questions. Without a Universe there's no Earth, without Earth there's no life on earth, without life on earth, there's no discussion of Evolution at all. So the question must be answered, and answered logically, before the premise that 'There is no God' can be accepted.

[]i This helped to create the illusion that complicated life suddenly sprang into existence.

First off, I'm told repeatedly that, in the history of the earth "Tens of Millions of Years" isn't that long. So is it "that long" or isn't it?

Second, that still doesn't explain how we went from "complex, but soft-bodied" multicellular organisms to, in a veritable blink of an eye, having virtually every phylum represented. Evolutionists cannot describe that mechanism, they have not (to my knowledge) ever conducted a single (correct) predictive experiment, and they can point to no cases in documented human history of a single species evolving into another species.

If Darwinian Evolution is correct, it should be observable: certainly over the last 150 years, we should be able to say, "Hey, that pig doesn't look quite like a pig anymore. I wonder what's happening to it?"

Heck, we can't even get permanent beneficial/benign mutations to take in fruit flies.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 07:20 AM (8y9MW)

462 To those that say there is no evidence that evolution is the means by which life came about on Earth, you are speaking in great ignorance. The theory of evolution is extremely sold in fundation and supported by tons of data. There have been adjustments to the theory over time as new data becomes available, but this is part of a healthy scientific method.

And despite all the assurances that the theory evolution is solid, it has no answer to the difficulties evolution must overcome according to information theory.

Knowledge of how computers communicate and how programs work give one insight to how damaging "random mutation" can be to a complex system.

One might answer that the complex system of living organisms has self-error checking mechanisms that nullify the harmful effects of bad random mutation while still allowing for good random mutation.   That level of error checking is hard and is itself complex - one must now explain how that mechanism evolved by random mutation.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 07:20 AM (MMM7r)

463 I was proud of my country this weekend when I saw Presdent Obama at the Tomb of the Unknown Slodier located in New York City this weekend. So proud that we have a person of color like Presdent Obama as our leader...So dammed proud.......

Posted by: Cindy Stienhoffer at May 29, 2012 07:20 AM (48wze)

464 I thought that microevolution was the loss of existing genetic material or a cyclic variation within a species and macroevolution was the permanent addition of genetic material.

Posted by: Grey Fox, crouched in his mountain fastness at May 29, 2012 07:21 AM (6t8l2)

465 Well, predestination means it's all God's fault while free will means we're all a bunch of fuck ups and God's overly tolerant.

Quien sabe?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 07:21 AM (CP+yl)

466 438 To all those that say science "proves" there is no God - that's garbage and very poor "science". Please do not turn science into dogma to support your religious belief of atheism (yes it is a religious belief because there is no way to prove there is no God - you have to have faith). Evolution in NO WAY says that there is no God - that is your way of philosophising the data.

To those that say there is no evidence that evolution is the means by which life came about on Earth, you are speaking in great ignorance. The theory of evolution is extremely sold in fundation and supported by tons of data. There have been adjustments to the theory over time as new data becomes available, but this is part of a healthy scientific method.

Posted by: Evan at May 29, 2012 11:00 AM (zmvcV)

[Grabs hand virtually, shakes it vigorously] Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. Science is the act of revealing God's means of creation. Making science into a religion cripples science; making religion the enemy of science drives away people who would otherwise be believers. Remember that many of the early scientists of the 17th and 18th century were passionate believers (Pascal, Newton).

Posted by: joncelli, heartless Con and all around unpleasant guy at May 29, 2012 07:22 AM (RD7QR)

467 Ah fiddlesticks! Did I miss a thread to on the myths of women being underpaid in the workforce??

*pouts*

Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 29, 2012 07:22 AM (pLTLS)

468 CTD: "Did anyone ever own a Mr. Microphone?..."

When you use Mr. Microphone, the premise is that you desire to yell to the hot chick you drive by, "Hey, Baby. Wanna go for a ride?" Your entire intent is to be heard. Publicly.

In the security of your castle and comfort of your undershorts, you don't intend to announce of your inaudible packets, "Come and get 'em!" Well, maybe Starbucks does, but not your typical moron.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 29, 2012 07:23 AM (eHIJJ)

469 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 11:20 AM (8y9MW) I must go to work now, and you have much to learn, young Jedi.

Posted by: eman at May 29, 2012 07:23 AM (6KkLK)

470 Posted by: Cindy Stienhoffer at May 29, 2012 11:20 AM (48wze)

That HAS to be a sock. Right?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 07:23 AM (sbV1u)

471 making religion the enemy of science drives away people who would otherwise be believers.Posted by: joncelli, heartless Con and all around unpleasant guy at May 29, 2012 11:22 AM

You're telling me!

Posted by: Galileo at May 29, 2012 07:25 AM (sbV1u)

472

Put me in with the other Texans who voted Ted Cruz. The Belo debates last April sealed the deal for me.

Posted by: snowcrash at May 29, 2012 07:25 AM (DKXab)

473 In order to accept the "theory" of ID, you have to first show ample evidence of God's existence. Can you do that? Can you show scientific evidence that God exists? You can't? Oh, wow. I guess that hampers your theory a little bit, huh?

The existence of good, and the ability to recognize the lack thereof (evil).   The existence of order.    The existence of objective Truth.   The fact that the universe has a beginning.

Science doesn't explain those things.   They're not within its domain.   They're not things that can be captured or examined by experimentation - yet they exist nonetheless.

A related point:   Can you prove the scientific method is true by using the scientific method?    It can't.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 07:25 AM (MMM7r)

474 I guess that person doesn't want to acknowledge that single, childless, women (which we know seem to have an abundance of) under 30 make MORE than their male counterparts. In fact, they make nearly 10% more than men. I believe it's eight or nine percent.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 29, 2012 07:26 AM (pLTLS)

475 I didn't vote for Romney in today's primary. I have to hold my nose and vote for him in Nov but I wasn't going to do it twice in one year. Surprised to see Bachmann still on the ballot...

Posted by: DangerGirl at May 29, 2012 07:26 AM (waJ+2)

476 predestination is one of those protestant heresies.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 07:28 AM (O3R/2)

477 test (ip still banned)

Posted by: Palerider at May 29, 2012 07:28 AM (ITaIZ)

478 In order to accept the "theory" of ID, you have to first show ample evidence of God's existence. Can you do that? Can you show scientific evidence that God exists? You can't? Oh, wow. I guess that hampers your theory a little bit, huh?

Since, if God exists, he would exist outside the Universe, it is logically consistent that no test inside the universe would be able to prove Him empirically.

However, I can logically deduce that some Creator must exist (regardless of whether He is the Christian God or not). I can deduce it from the fact the Universe itself exists and is finite (finite things must have a cause, what 'caused' the Universe)? I can deduce it from the so-called Anthropomorphic Constants. I can deduce it from the fact life exists- when never in history has life been shown to come from non-life.

Both macro- and micro-evolution old up. Creationists just like to move the bar on what is macro-evolution. They see "little evolution" but move the bar when it comes to explaining "evolution to different types."

That's not moving the bar at all- that's something even Darwin Admitted we should see: which, by the way, we haven't.

No one disputes that you can breed for traits, and that this happens in nature (micro-evolution is little more complex, if at all, than creating new breeds of dog). Macro evolution, however, doesn't say that I'm a modified form of Ape, it says that the Apes and I have a common ancestor- that requires a "change in type." It means that, before there were chimpanzees, and gorillas, and humans, there was some proto-sapien something-or-other. And then that proto-sapien something-or-other eventually morphed into things as different as a chipanzee is from a gorilla is from a human.

I'll grant you that "natural selection" occurs: that was hardly news by the 1800s. What Darwin specifically said, though, was that this thing everyone already new existed (that would natural selection, for those following at home), actually pointed to something much more complex- the creation of whole new species.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 07:28 AM (8y9MW)

479

@AllenG,

Part of the problem in conducting a predictive experiment re: Evolution is that a chunk of evolution is predicated on simple chance. It's a common misconception (even by PhD biologists sadly) that organisms "evolve" to fill a particular niche.

That's not true in the slightest. Random mutations occur that may or may not be beneficial within a particular niche (or could just be totally useless or harmful.) If the first, you get to see more of them as they outcompete. If the last (harmful) the opposite. If you truely have a mutation that conferrs near 0 benefit or burden you get into the area of "genetic drift" and "random fixation" which more than likely accounts for many of the traits found in today's flora and fauna.

Additionally I'd consider the british moths (which had a color "gray" as a random mutation that was then favored post industrial revolution when the trees became dirtier) as well as MRSA to be at least somewhat indicitive of some form of natural selection.

Posted by: tsrblke at May 29, 2012 07:28 AM (22rSN)

480 Hey, it is going on morning-thirty. New thread, please.

Posted by: TheLittlShiningMan at May 29, 2012 07:28 AM (PH+2B)

481 Dumbasses. They would have been better served to use the logo from the Star Wars cantina.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at May 29, 2012 09:41 AM (vbh31)

Well, the UN is a wretched hive of scum and villainy...

Posted by: Insomniac at May 29, 2012 07:29 AM (DrWcr)

482 you have much to learn, young Jedi.
Posted by: eman at May 29, 2012 11:23 AM (6KkLK)

Oh, that was uncalled for you pretentious wanker.

As if you have imparted a bit of wisdom for us to now digest with our poorly formed analytic abilities while you with your massive intellect and erudition leave us to ponder your words of knowledge and wisdom.

In the words of that massively mad Mel Gibson:

You can BLOW ME!

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 07:29 AM (CP+yl)

483 The U.S. State Department is kicking out Syria's top diplomat to Washington, joining several other countries in expelling Syrian officials in a bid to increase pressure on leader Bashar Assad following Friday's massacre of civilians. State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said Tuesday that the U.S. government has given Syria's charge d'affaires 72 hours to leave the country. ????Gee and just last year hillary was saying Assad was someone we could work with?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 29, 2012 07:29 AM (05RcU)

484

The theory of evolution is extremely sold in fundation

------

Funniest typo of the morning.

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 07:29 AM (cWkOB)

485 You're telling me!

Posted by: Galileo at May 29, 2012 11:25 AM (sbV1u)

Maybe if you had stuck to science instead of jumping into theology by claiming that science was pretty much infallible and had refrained from insulting the pope in print (who, after all, was inclined to believe the heliocentric theory but was worried about that other stuff you were saying), you wouldn't have had your books banned. Just a thought...

Posted by: Grey Fox, crouched in his mountain fastness at May 29, 2012 07:29 AM (6t8l2)

486 I gotta go to work. It's been fun arguing with you all. I would love for someone to show scientific evidence for God's existence. The fact is, that is what ID bases itself upon. If you have a scientific method that is founded upon something that, by it's very nature is unprovable, you have a very poor method. Have a good day.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 07:31 AM (nUY/O)

487 490 predestination is one of those protestant heresies.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 11:28 AM (O3R/2)

Beg pardon?

Posted by: St. Augustine of Hippo at May 29, 2012 07:31 AM (6t8l2)

488 Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 11:29 AM (CP+yl)

Ahem....minor correction.

But first you will ~~can~~ BLOW ME!

Carry on!

Posted by: Mel Gibson Admiration Society at May 29, 2012 07:31 AM (sbV1u)

489 Google,the name sounds harmless, something a new born does. Facebook the name sounds so inviting, like a coffee table book, coloring book, etc...Both Suckerberg and that ass wipe who runs Google are akin to the anti-christ...As always it is now common place the corrupt individual who polutes the freedom of the many, likewise it is the substandard masses who corrupt the freedom of the individual. Life is a difficult balance, best answered, as you the individual become the answer to another individuals prayer.

Posted by: Clemenza at May 29, 2012 07:31 AM (fCSfn)

490

I gotta go to work. It's been fun arguing with you all.

------

The Matrix will miss you while your gone.

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 07:32 AM (cWkOB)

491 predestination is one of those protestant heresies.

Protestants?!?! Pikers.

I was a heretic before they were born!

Posted by: Pelagius at May 29, 2012 07:33 AM (sbV1u)

492 Mel Gibson Admiration Society at May 29, 2012 11:31 AM (sbV1u)

I stand corrected.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 07:34 AM (CP+yl)

493 489 So is not believing in Leprechauns a religion requiring faith as well?

And what about Pixies?

A belief that Leprechauns do not exist is a belief, juast as belief that Leprechauns do exist is a belief.

That one disbelieves the existence of Leprechauns is really a side effect of another belief. This belief is in the existence of some higher Truth that does not allow the existence of Leprechauns.

If you're not sure if Leprechauns exist, that's distinct from disbelief in Leprechauns. This is the distinction between agnosticism as opposed to atheism. Agnosticism does not require faith, merely ignorance. Atheism, a concrete belief that X does not happen, does require faith.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 07:34 AM (MMM7r)

494 "Predestination" is often used as a cop-out. "God made me this way. There is no "free-will"." as opposed to "omniscience".

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 07:35 AM (O3R/2)

495 Yeah, somebody needs to go chip the Ewok out of that puddle of congealed pudding and Valu-Rite and prop him up in front of a computer.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 29, 2012 07:35 AM (d0Tfm)

496 Nevergiveup@497,

So, overseas contingency operation with Syria? Is that the dog to be wagged in an October surprise as a substitute for the real threat, Iran?

Obama already tried to pivot by appealing to those who respected Reagan as well as saying Obama isn't the spendaholic he's made out to be. Why wouldn't he turn "hawk" to round up some Independents should desperation set in?

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 29, 2012 07:35 AM (eHIJJ)

497 Part of the problem in conducting a predictive experiment re: Evolution is that a chunk of evolution is predicated on simple chance.

I know that, actually, and that's sort of the point. You can't predict "chance," which then means you can't prove it. And if you can't prove your theory, it's no more valid than mine. Indeed, it would be no more valid than a theory involving the flatulence of space racoons.

Also, logically, there is no such thing as chance.

For example, when we roll a six-sided die, we say that it was "chance" when it rolls a 5. However, if we were able to precisely calculate all of the variables involved in the roll (angle it leaves the hand, velocity, air currents, etc., etc.) we would be able to perfectly predict every time we rolled the die what number would come up. We call it "chance" because there is no way for us to calculate all of those things. But, make no mistake, it wasn't "chance" that did it, it was the very precise laws of physics which dictated how that die would come up.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 07:36 AM (8y9MW)

498 If evolution were proven it would be the "Law of Evolution" not the Theory.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 07:36 AM (Z5iSP)

499 If Darwinian Evolution is correct, it should be observable: certainly over the last 150 years, we should be able to say, "Hey, that pig doesn't look quite like a pig anymore. I wonder what's happening to it?"

Heck, we can't even get permanent beneficial/benign mutations to take in fruit flies.

Posted by: AllenG
......The fu?
150 years?

10 million years?

We're talking hundreds of millions of years.. billions of years..

Of course no one can demonstrate in a lab how evolution works.. are ye daft, man??

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at May 29, 2012 07:36 AM (f9c2L)

500 Yeah, somebody needs to go chip the Ewok out of that puddle of congealed pudding and Valu-Rite and prop him up in front of a computer.Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 29, 2012 11:35 AM

Sorry, fresh out of HazMat suits and re-breathers.

It's your turn anyway.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 07:37 AM (sbV1u)

501 I don't know how any thinking person can read the Cain and Abel fable from the bible and say the bible and evolution are at odds with each other. Right there up front we have other people not descended from Adam's rib. And challenge: Describe creation of stars, planets, plants, to people in just a few sentences and do it better (keep in mind that your word for an unspecified length of time may get morphed over several language changes into "day")

Posted by: Palerider at May 29, 2012 07:37 AM (ITaIZ)

502 I believe in ME.

And this chair I'm sitting in.

I believe in me and this chair I'm sitting in and and this computer.

I believe in me and this chair and this computer and my house.

And I believe I'm going to get something to eat.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 07:37 AM (CP+yl)

503 St. Augustine, give me a pointer. I have your books. btw, all the Roman history gets in the way of the theology.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 07:37 AM (O3R/2)

504 a biological instinct placed there by God..... Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 29, 2012 10:10 AM (Ho2rs) Maybe Adam and Eve but, as a hardshell West Texas Lutheran, I have to quibble with this. Luther didn't believe it to be so, at least after the fall.

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at May 29, 2012 07:38 AM (NG097)

505 The Twitter account for Â“Attack Watch,Â” the combative in-house spin machine for President Barack ObamaÂ’s re-election campaign, has gone dark as of Tuesday morning. According to Twitter, the account is now private.

Posted by: Attack Watch at May 29, 2012 07:38 AM (e8kgV)

506 Of course no one can demonstrate in a lab how evolution works.. are ye daft, man??Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at May 29, 2012 11:36 AM (f9c2L)

You can with a species that has a life span measured in hours.

Like, oh, fruit flies.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 07:38 AM (sbV1u)

507 508 "Predestination" is often used as a cop-out. "God made me this way. There is no "free-will"." as opposed to "omniscience".

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 11:35 AM (O3R/2)

If there is no free will the Christian God is not.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 07:38 AM (Z5iSP)

508 AllenG,

But God does roll dice.

Posted by: Niels Bohr at May 29, 2012 07:39 AM (O3R/2)

509 If there is no free will, there is no sin. You cannot be judged for being an automaton.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 07:40 AM (O3R/2)

510 Hmmm, in NJ we have Mitt, Newt, Rick and crazy Uncle Ron on the primary ballot.

Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy at May 29, 2012 07:40 AM (MbeR6)

511 I believe in Crystal Light.

Posted by: that chick from Dynasty at May 29, 2012 07:40 AM (Go/E/)

512 I would have a hard time arguing with someone who believes that Adam and Eve were real people and the story of Genesis really happened.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 07:41 AM (KLzY3)

513 We're talking hundreds of millions of years.. billions of years..

Yes, however Evolution should be happening all the time. Which means there should be modern examples of transitional species, or failing species, or something.

If Evolution is nothing more than "random chance" (see my post at 511 for more on that) then it should be constantly occurring, and then should have been observed at some point. It hasn't.

Note in my "pig" example, I'm not even calling for a new species of pig, but I am saying that in the 150 (or so) years since Darwin, we should have seen something change enough that we can say, "hey, that's not the same as it was."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 07:41 AM (8y9MW)

514 Oh crud its late, I have to go earn a living. Sorry about posting and running.

Posted by: Palerider at May 29, 2012 07:42 AM (ITaIZ)

515 If evolution were proven it would be the "Law of Evolution" not the Theory.
Posted by: dagny
...........
But that by no means makes mythologies like the Bible creation story or the Hindu stories of Lord Brahma the Creator, or any number of other creation myths true.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at May 29, 2012 07:42 AM (f9c2L)

516
Additionally I'd consider the british moths (which had a color "gray" as a random mutation that was then favored post industrial revolution when the trees became dirtier) as well as MRSA to be at least somewhat indicitive of some form of natural selection.

Posted by: tsrblke at May 29, 2012 11:28 AM (22rSN)

But that experiment didn't prove that a new color gene mutated its way into existence. It merely showed that as natural selection did its thing, the majority of individuals in the population shifted from being one color to another.

The experiment does not know, and really cannot determine, that the change in color was a mutation. The experiment shows that moths use their color for camoflauge, and that camoflauge effectiveness is changed by pollution in the environment.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 07:42 AM (MMM7r)

517 If you want evidence of micro-evolution just look at how a species can change in one year - from this to this

Wait - that's not an improvement

Posted by: RightWingProf at May 29, 2012 07:42 AM (IC6Er)

518 "Everybody aught to believe in something. I believe I will have another drink." - W.C. Fields.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 29, 2012 07:43 AM (O3R/2)

519 But that by no means makes mythologies like the Bible creation story or the Hindu stories of Lord Brahma the Creator, or any number of other creation myths true.Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at May 29, 2012 11:42 AM (f9c2L)

Doesn't make them false either.

Allegory, myth and metaphor are all still a means of conveying a truth.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 29, 2012 07:43 AM (sbV1u)

520 Chi-Town Jerry: "Of course no one can demonstrate in a lab how evolution works.. are ye daft, man??"

Well, we sorta do. Fruit flies in genetics. We can observe gene expression and gene pools quite compactly. Not a perfect model because it's so distilled (as it would have to be), but it's still pretty good. Is it representative of wholesale evolution? No, but with a little bit of extrapolation and it could be.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 29, 2012 07:44 AM (eHIJJ)

521 and now I believe I'm back.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 07:45 AM (CP+yl)

522
For example, when we roll a six-sided die, we say that it was "chance" when it rolls a 5. However, if we were able to precisely calculate all of the variables involved in the roll (angle it leaves the hand, velocity, air currents, etc., etc.) we would be able to perfectly predict every time we rolled the die what number would come up. We call it "chance" because there is no way for us to calculate all of those things. But, make no mistake, it wasn't "chance" that did it, it was the very precise laws of physics which dictated how that die would come up.

I thought quantam mechanics disproved that you can actually know the outcome in all cases?

Or rather, that we cannot possibly know all variables, because the mere act of observing changes the results.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 07:45 AM (MMM7r)

523

If there is no free will, there is no sin. You cannot be judged for being an automaton.
-----

There is free will, but he supposedly already knows how it turns out. Or at least I assume he does if he knows it all. Thats why I will have some serious bitching to do to him when the time comes, if that turns out to be true.

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 07:46 AM (cWkOB)

524 Posted by: Niels Bohr at May 29, 2012 11:39 AM (O3R/2)

Well, yes, but who doesn't.

Well, Peter just stuck his foot in his mouth again, so The Dragon uses his breath weapon, roll your saves.

Okay... No, Thomas, you can't disbelieve, it's not an illusion.
For some reason no one can find Judas.
And... Jesus saves. Jesus always saves.

I would have a hard time arguing with someone who believes that Adam and Eve were real people and the story of Genesis really happened.

Why? We know that, men at least, do seem to have a single common ancestor. And, like I said, I can provide logical evidence for the existence of God, and have already explained why science can't have a say one way or another (as someone else said above: you can't prove the scientific method by the scientific method: you have to prove that it is valid only through logic).

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 07:46 AM (8y9MW)

525 My ex! WTF was that dude!

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 07:47 AM (cWkOB)

526 @532 oops - linky tool isn't working. The two links were pics of Vanessa Williams (age 49) and Moochelle (age 4

.

AllenG - would this satisfy the pig analogy?

Posted by: RightWingProf at May 29, 2012 07:47 AM (IC6Er)

527 Eh. Late to the party @535.

Must be some science major morons in attendance.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 29, 2012 07:47 AM (eHIJJ)

528

@AllenG,

Right, but you're arguing for Absolute certainty, something that only an omnipotent being is capable of having. That's the very defintion of Chance: The existance of "unknown" or (more percisely perhaps) "unknowable" variables.

Otherwise I'd always win at craps, because I'd know exactly the force and angle the dice hit the table at (plus all the relevant hardness information).

Am I totally satisified with the theory of evolution as written? Nah, it's got some serious holes that need to be plugged. The work on "punctuated equalibrium" as a main driving force of evolution is helping in that regard.

However (religious though I am) a shoddy theory of evolution makes more sense than various competing theories (simulatenous creation with a fossil record "baked into" the earth already. For example.)

Did God "tweak" evolution at any point? Impossible to say. I'd like to believe that's where the existance of the "soul" came into play (especially considering that things like morality tend to be non-beneficial from an evolutionary standpoint.) Also there's nothing stopping God from being the cause of the comit that wiped out half the shit on earth.

As far as "creation of the universe writ large" is concerned, at that point you're basically in the realm of philosophy and theology anyway. So no one is going to disprove anything IMHO by saying "well clearly God created the universe so..." Yeah, great, that's easy to say, but really has little bearing towards what happened some 10 billion years later on earth or how said Creator chose to make it happen.

Posted by: tsrblke at May 29, 2012 07:47 AM (22rSN)

529

Sorry, fresh out of HazMat suits and re-breathers.

It's your turn anyway.

Hey, I did it last time, and I barely escaped. Ewoks with hangovers are rather grouchy.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 29, 2012 07:48 AM (d0Tfm)

530 Or rather, that we cannot possibly know all variables, because the mere act of observing changes the results.

If current understanding of Quantum Theory is correct (and I'm way, waaaaay out of my depth there), then you're sort of right. I'm not talking about observing the variables, though. If you knew them before hand (that is, you knew the die would leave the hand w/ X spin at Y speed at Z angle, etc.) then you should be able to predict, 100% of the time (even with Quantum Mechanics, call it 75% of the time: certainly way to high for you to be correct "by chance"), how the die would land.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 07:50 AM (8y9MW)

531 Note in my "pig" example, I'm not even calling for a new species of pig, but I am saying that in the 150 (or so) years since Darwin, we should have seen something change enough that we can say, "hey, that's not the same as it was."
Posted by: AllenG
........
We have seen it.. all the time.. We just happen to call it genetic diseases. Most mutations fail.. or don't improve the species.. or cause other abnormalities.

Breeding usually is the way a lot of evolutionary mutation occurs.

They just found a new species of shark off Australia that occurred when two different species mated - that usually fails.. this time it produced a new species.. voila! evolution!

http://tinyurl.com/7rsfkrs

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at May 29, 2012 07:50 AM (f9c2L)

532 I guess I see the point there, but just because you leave your stuff in your front yard, on your own property, anyone can rummage through it, but it doesnt mean they should.

Posted by: DHSmonkey at May 29, 2012 07:50 AM (1kvqG)

533 (announcer speaking sotto voce)

we're here at the edge of the AoSHQ and you can feel the tension in the air.

I'ts been over 5 hours now and no new thread has appeared to slake the appetites of the morons aimlessly wandering about the grounds.

The Head "Ewok" has failed to make an appearance but he's not a morning predator. None of the cob Bloggers have shown enough energy or need to put together even a sad excuse for a mid day thread.

The tension is getting so thick you could cut it with your hobo gutting knife. The Morons are starting to get more restless. If they get anymore agitated, I'm afraid someone's going to be . . . . .

NO Wait I'm just he anounncer . no, no ah aha no ouch hey {smack} {pow} . .. .. . . . . . . eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee [tee hee] click.

PLEASE EXCUSE THE INTERRUPTION. WE SEEM TO HAVE LOST OUR FEED AND WILL PRESENT SOME LIGHT MUSIC FOR YOUR ENJOYMENT.

PLEASE STAND BY.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 07:51 AM (CP+yl)

534 The God does not play dice quote comes from Einstein, not Bohr.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 07:52 AM (YdQQY)

535 If there is no free will the Christian God is not.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 11:38 AM (Z5iSP)

If there is free will then Christ's sacrifice was unnecessary, as people could potentially have lived without sin and been perfect without it. No Christian believes in a totally free will - what is under dispute is whether a person can make the decision to follow Christ and thereby gain the benefits of his sacrifice without God first working in his or her heart, or whether God must first work in the heart of a sinner before the sinner can make that choice.

Predestination does not mean that people are little robots without autonomy - it means that everyone is naturally in rebellion against God (total depravity) and will refuse Jesus unless God first works in their heart.

Posted by: St. Augustine of Hippo at May 29, 2012 07:53 AM (6t8l2)

536

@AllenG:

Re: failing species. Frankly, I'd argue we have lots of data about that. The problem is that the Eco-nuts constantly want to blame it on "human interference." See: Panda. Nothing says "failing species" like soemthing that has to eat it's weight in a poorly digested food each day and then can barely produce a positive population curve (i.e. each Panda "couple*" produces just over 2 panda babies over it's lifetime).Aritifical selection works, works well and produces a set of species, often different from their ancestors by a signifcant margin (sometimes such that they can no longer reproduce with said ancestors, especially true for plants.) I see no reason why "nature" can't "select" in the same way.

*I don't think Panda's mate for life, hence "couple" in quotation marks. It's general term for all the "couplings" that happen throughout the lifecycle.

Posted by: tsrblke at May 29, 2012 07:54 AM (22rSN)

537 I'm going to store this thread and spin it into gold. No fuckin' way I'm getting off your lawn!

Posted by: Google. BTW, We Actually Are Evil at May 29, 2012 07:54 AM (eHIJJ)

538 Don't do it teej. It'll last all day. Just go rip the Potter and clay passage (and others that go with it) right on out of that book. Proof that God exists? He walked among us. Miracles performed, witnessed and recorded. Death on the cross and resurrection on the third day. And in "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroebel (sp?) paraphrasing; All of the disciples were put to death for preaching the above Gospel. Men will give their life for something they BELIEVE to be true. They will NOT give their life for something they KNOW to be a lie. They walked with Him and talked with him. Witnessed the miracles. Refused to stop preaching it. And so gave their lives for it.

Posted by: teej at May 29, 2012 07:54 AM (sbimF)

539 off sock.

Posted by: Grey Fox, crouched in his mountain fastness at May 29, 2012 07:54 AM (6t8l2)

540 So no one is going to disprove anything IMHO by saying "well clearly God created the universe so..." Yeah, great, that's easy to say, but really has little bearing towards what happened some 10 billion years later on earth or how said Creator chose to make it happen.

That's true. And if the question is one of education (should we teach the theory (really hypothesis) of Darwinian Evolution), I'm fine with that. If the question is of "what really happened," then I'm not prepared to accept the DE claims because (again: with Modern DE as a whole, not taking into account specific exceptions) on presupposition is that God does not exist: which brings up all sorts of questions they can't answer.

I can't tell you how or if Evolution (including ID / Directed Evolution) works. Frankly, to me, it doesn't matter much. But I can say that, logically, ID/Directed Evolution is on at least as solid ground as Darwinian Evolution.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 07:54 AM (8y9MW)

541 I guess I see the point there, but just because you leave your stuff in your front yard, on your own property, anyone can rummage through it, but it doesnt mean they should.

Posted by: DHSmonkey at May 29, 2012 11:50 AM (1kvqG)

Not true if in your own yard. That IS private property and they would be guilty of trespass. Different matter if it has been thrown in the curbside trash though.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 07:55 AM (YdQQY)

542 Without getting into personal details w/o her permission, I'll just say that I have some insight on this through my wife. And the reason is guilt- deep, soul-eating guilt. If she allows herself to think of "it" as "a baby," she'll realize she's a murderer.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 09:11 AM (8y9MW)

Exactly. I have written about mine before (happened over 30 years ago). I had to face what I was. After that, two choices: be eaten up by guilt or accept that Jesus had paid the price for my sin of murder and all the rest. Still grateful for my get-out-of-Hell free "card."

Posted by: baldilocks at May 29, 2012 07:56 AM (6kWFm)

543 I guess this has turned into the land war in Asia thread.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 07:56 AM (nfwzc)

544 Let's argue about women's salaries again. That is the current libtard talking point.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 07:57 AM (YdQQY)

545
This is hardly new. Frequency skipping has been in use in cell networks for decades. The technology itself hearkens back to WWII torpedo guidance, unless my caffiene-deprived brain is mixing things up here. (Bonus points if you can tell the class whose name is on the patent!)

Heady Lamarr, of course.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 29, 2012 07:59 AM (xDqit)

546 Vic: "Not true if in your own yard. That IS private property and they would be guilty of trespass. Different matter if it has been thrown in the curbside trash though."

So if my bagged trash is a foot away from the curb in the turf, it's off limits; but if it's on the curb proper (or touching public roadway), it's "public"?

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 29, 2012 07:59 AM (eHIJJ)

547

So 'scientists' have discovered the 'perfect' face and it's a hot blonde chick?

Though my support for hot blondes is unparalleled, this doesn't end well.

Posted by: Beagle at May 29, 2012 07:59 AM (sOtz/)

548 They just found a new species of shark off Australia that occurred when two different species mated - that usually fails.. this time it produced a new species.. voila! evolution!

Not proven, yet. Until we see that this new "hybrid" species can breed, we're only at the shark equivalent of a mule. Even then, if they're close enough related (say: modern wolves to modern dogs), it's not so much "different species" as "different sub-species." As I understand it (and I'm a little out of my depth here) to be a totally new species, they would have to be able to breed with each other, but not easily breed with their parent species.

But that's remembering a biology course to which I barely paid attention by in my sophomore year in HS- so I could be way off base there.

There's a lot there that hasn't been answered.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 08:00 AM (8y9MW)

549 (I tried, Vic. No one wanted to bite!)

you were right btw

Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 29, 2012 08:00 AM (pLTLS)

550 Am I the only moron that wishes Michael Savage would STFU? I just heard a commercial for his book with him talking about it in the third person. It's pretty fucking bad when you can't find anybody else willing to shill for it.

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 29, 2012 08:01 AM (7Ph7Z)

551 Sorry but without free will you cannot choose God, there is no love, etc. People could have potentially chosen to not sin using their free will but not only was revelation incomplete before Christ but He died to provide the redemption, the payment for the original choice of man to reject God. He came to pay the ransom price--or at least that's what he said.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 08:01 AM (Z5iSP)

552

Not exclusively. Fantastic claims are not the same as reasonable claims. The onus is on the one who believes in Leprechauns to provide, in detail, a compelling argument for the existance of Leprechauns. I am under no obligation to disprove every claim no matter how bizarre.

Define fantastic claims.    Define reasonable claims.

You'll find that you end up back with my definition:   Your belief in *Something* tells you that belief X is fantastic, belief Y is reasonable.

I don't believe Leprechauns exist (as little green men) either, because I have a belief that God exists as described in the Bible, and he didn't say anything about creating them.   (this is a weak logical argument; but sufficient given my lack of need to deal with Leprechauns)

Your disbelief in the existence of God or Leprechauns is a product of your belief in Something that splits the beliefs of this world into "reasonable" and "fantastic".

That atheists tend to have such trouble acknowledging the existence of their own beliefs is why I don't take atheism seriously.   If atheists do not comprehend their own belief system, then I don't see anything gained by joining their ranks.    On the other hand, it does confirm "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom".

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 08:01 AM (MMM7r)

553 I would accept a DrewM post at this time.

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at May 29, 2012 08:01 AM (NG097)

554 They just found a new species of shark off Australia that occurred when two different species mated - that usually fails.. this time it produced a new species.. voila! evolution!>>

Is this an argument for legalizing bestiality? Cause a human pig hybyid would be disgusting. Oh wait there's already One of those Michel Moore.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at May 29, 2012 08:02 AM (wrS2o)

555

Re: Quantum Mech. My Physicist wife just yelled at me and said "everybody is wrong about QM."

I guess it only applies on the atomic and subatomic level, so the dice experiment is bust. The Uncertainty principle still applies, and Choas Theory might, but I've been told to tell the Morons to "stop abusing Physics"

Posted by: tsrblke at May 29, 2012 08:02 AM (22rSN)

556

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 12:00 PM (8y9MW)

It also doesn't actually introduce new genetic material to the mix, just provides new combinations of existing stuff.

Posted by: Grey Fox, crouched in his mountain fastness at May 29, 2012 08:02 AM (6t8l2)

557 Heck, I would accept an EeyorePundit post at this time.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 29, 2012 08:03 AM (eHIJJ)

558 @ 562

Garbage is garbage, left for someone else to take. You have let go of ownership. The location is only relevant in terms of getting to it, of whether there is a technical trespass in order to get to it. There may be a fine point of law here, but the main point is that garbage left for others to take is free game.

Posted by: Crispian at May 29, 2012 08:03 AM (+r6FI)

559 Am I the only moron that wishes Michael Savage would STFU?

^^^

He got the boot off my local am. I was pretty happy about that as he's always seemed like an off-the-charts narcissist to me. Rivaling Obama (obviously w/out the total fucking destruction). He's *always* yelling at his own guests -- I've never understood how people could listen to him.

He's good when he's storytelling - but that's about it.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 29, 2012 08:03 AM (pLTLS)

560 It's not women's salaries that's in contention it's whether they're more or less than men's and whether they're paid for the same amount of work.

The libs forget (or can't get it thru their thick skulls) that employment is a transaction. The employer says he wants you to do that and he'll give you this. You say fuck you or right oh when do I start.

If at anytime the transaction no longer satisfies you then you can exercise the "fuck you" option and leave.

It can get more complicated than that I suppose but that's it in a nutshell. If you're not getting what you want or need; leave.
If leaving is not possible then stfu and get back to work.

and make me a sammich.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 08:03 AM (CP+yl)

561 So if my bagged trash is a foot away from the curb in the turf, it's off limits; but if it's on the curb proper (or touching public roadway), it's "public"?

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 29, 2012 11:59 AM (eHIJJ)

It depends on what your local or State claims as public right of way. Here it is 15 foot from the center line of the road.

But the case ruled on by the Supremes was curbside trash, not trash bagged near the house. No ruling on that.

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 08:04 AM (YdQQY)

562 so the dice experiment is bust.

Actually, other way around. If QM isn't involved, it makes my percentage higher if I knew all the variables: and, again, it's impossible for a human to know all the variables. Or close enough to impossible that we can use that word.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 08:04 AM (8y9MW)

563 Oh, Lordy, the HQ is turning into LGF...

Posted by: Insomniac at May 29, 2012 08:04 AM (DrWcr)

564 The Obama campaign says Teh Won will win again because "people would rather have a beer with the black guy" than Romney. Which is messed up on multiple levels. Link to Weasel Zippers in my name.

Posted by: Ian S. at May 29, 2012 08:05 AM (tqwMN)

565 Can I keep abusing physics just till I go blind?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 08:05 AM (CP+yl)

566
Are you being kind to others so you can get to Heaven?

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at May 29, 2012 09:33 AM (nUY/O)

Re: Christian theology. Being kind to others doesn't get one into Heaven.

Posted by: baldilocks at May 29, 2012 08:05 AM (6kWFm)

567 @551. Pretty much perfect explanation.

Posted by: teej at May 29, 2012 08:05 AM (sbimF)

568 Can I keep abusing physics just till I go blind?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 12:05 PM (CP+yl)

Just can't keep your hands off the large hardon collider, can you?

Posted by: Insomniac at May 29, 2012 08:06 AM (DrWcr)

569 So far one vote for DrewM and one for EeyorePundit.

Getting desperate are we? Do I hear a vote for Meghan McBlondie? I hope not.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 08:06 AM (nfwzc)

570 REPORT: Aaron Walker Arrested After Maryland Hearing on Kimberlin Case

Aaron Walker, whose complaint against convicted terrorist Brett Kimberlin became a conservative cause cÃ©lÃ¨bre this past week, was reportedly taken into custody today after a court hearing in Rockville, Maryland.

One person who attended the hearing in Montgomery County District Court said that Kimberlin asserted that WalkerÂ’s continued blogging represented a violation of a Â“peace orderÂ” Kimberlin had obtained against the Virginia attorney, who says Kimberlin tried to Â“frameÂ” him for assault earlier this year.

During the course of the hearing Â— which reportedly lasted about an hour Â— Judge C.J. Vaughey appeared to become increasingly hostile toward Walker, who was taken into custody when the hearing concluded.

http://tinyurl.com/723htcg

Posted by: Tami at May 29, 2012 08:06 AM (X6akg)

571 Oh, Lordy, the HQ is turning into LGF... The Morning Commenters are schismatics.

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at May 29, 2012 08:06 AM (NG097)

572 NOMITTNOBAMA 2012.

Posted by: Pragmatic at May 29, 2012 08:07 AM (z8Cts)

573 the large hardon collider ISWYDT

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at May 29, 2012 08:08 AM (NG097)

574 Insomniac: "Oh, Lordy, the HQ is turning into LGF..."

That's it, buddy. That's a bannin'.

Posted by: Jarles Chonson at May 29, 2012 08:08 AM (eHIJJ)

575 RON PAUL!

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at May 29, 2012 08:08 AM (NG097)

576

@AllenG,

The definition of "Species" is rife with problems. Ask any two biologists and you'll get two different answers. I think the prevailing defintion now is group of organisms that can breed within each other (and produce fertile offsping), but not with other organisms. Of course even that is wrought with problems. There are entire colonies of Bugs that live solely on one bush that (for obvious reasons) can't bread with the colony 2 bushes over, are they a species?

Attemps at a genetic defintion have largely failed as well. Wikipedia has a whole article on the "species problem."

I stand by my original statement, Evolution is a passable theory, I think you could massage various forms of "directed evolution" into it fairly easily (although theologically I have problems with that since we can't know the mind of the Creator, so it's not worth folding those together, because effectively we'd have to know his mind to know when He interjected himself. So it's not worth teaching in any science class, and even outside of science, I'd save it for College level Theology seminars or coffee discussions among people.)

Posted by: tsrblke at May 29, 2012 08:09 AM (22rSN)

577 and how do they know the sharks were of different species?

without a complete (and destructive) analysis there's no easy way to be absolutely sure they're completely different species. Dogs can mate and create other dogs and some of them look so different from each other it's amazing that it could even physically happen.

So I call Bs on the shark.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 08:09 AM (CP+yl)

578 Oh, Lordy, the HQ is turning into LGF...>>

Who got banned for making a reasonable argument that went against the herd?

Posted by: Buzzsaw at May 29, 2012 08:09 AM (tf9Ne)

579

I'd stop abusing Physics, but I can't help myself. Physics is that hot sexy bitch that's always teasing, always hinting at something just out of reach and just above my ability to comprehend.

Of course I'm going to smack it on the ass every now and then and then brag to all my buddies how Physics cleaned my pipes.

Posted by: Einstein's failed understudy at May 29, 2012 08:09 AM (Z+7Jg)

580 Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 29, 2012 12:03 PM (pLTLS)

You hit all his negatives effectively.

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 29, 2012 08:09 AM (7Ph7Z)

581 If current understanding of Quantum Theory is correct (and I'm way, waaaaay out of my depth there), then you're sort of right. I'm not talking about observing the variables, though. If you knew them before hand (that is, you knew the die would leave the hand w/ X spin at Y speed at Z angle, etc.) then you should be able to predict, 100% of the time (even with Quantum Mechanics, call it 75% of the time: certainly way to high for you to be correct "by chance"), how the die would land.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 11:50 AM (8y9MW)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment

I'm not too good at the quantam physics either, but it seems that your point about the die relies on a Newtonian view of the world. It may even be true at the level of dice that if we happened to know the precise environment variables (the location of each air molecule, the shape of the surface, the density of the die, etc) that we can predict the way the die will land.

But some of those variables are molecular in nature; we can't measure those without changing the result. (There's some law about not knowing both position and velocity of a molecule precisely)

Perhaps it's just a limitation of our human level observation. Not chance to God, but chance to man.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 08:10 AM (MMM7r)

582 567 Sorry but without free will you cannot choose God, there is no love, etc. People could have potentially chosen to not sin using their free will but not only was revelation incomplete before Christ but He died to provide the redemption, the payment for the original choice of man to reject God. He came to pay the ransom price--or at least that's what he said.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 12:01 PM (Z5iSP)

Let me make sure I understand this correctly: Are you claiming that a newborn today could potentially live without sin his or her whole life and upon death be admitted into heaven based on his or her works alone, and that Christ's death by offering a means of forgiveness to those have failed, is only an alternative for the rest of us?

Posted by: Grey Fox, crouched in his mountain fastness at May 29, 2012 08:10 AM (6t8l2)

583 I've been told to tell the Morons to "stop abusing Physics"

Have you seen the bruises on my shins? I'd appreciate if Physics would stop abusing me!

Posted by: fluffy at May 29, 2012 08:11 AM (z9HTb)

584 The AttackWatch Twitter feed has been locked so nobody can follow it anymore. Which one of you morons bombed it with busty lesbian pr0n?

Posted by: Ian S. at May 29, 2012 08:11 AM (tqwMN)

585 Wow Tami, that is messed up Worthing in the clink while Brett is still free.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 08:11 AM (nfwzc)

586

Actually, other way around. If QM isn't involved, it makes my percentage higher if I knew all the variables: and, again, it's impossible for a human to know all the variables. Or close enough to impossible that we can use that word.

Sorry short typing. I meant "referencing QM in the dice experiment is a bust." Plus Heisenberg* still applies (since that applies at a Macrolevel as well.) So it's not that a human can't know all the variables, nothing outside of a diety could.

*The wife did say Heisenberg's Uncertaintly principle is "kinda QM" but "not really" more like "it's applicable in QM, but also elsewhere." I stopped paying attention at that point.

Posted by: tsrblke at May 29, 2012 08:12 AM (22rSN)

587

Tami, was that a link to Stacy McCain? I couldn't get it to work but saw the story is there.

Unbelievable.

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 29, 2012 08:13 AM (XdlcF)

588

REPORT: Aaron Walker Arrested After Maryland Hearing on Kimberlin Case

Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. On what grounds?

Posted by: Insomniac at May 29, 2012 08:14 AM (DrWcr)

589 A priest, a rabbi, and a fish walk into this bar...

Posted by: Thomas Aquinas at May 29, 2012 08:14 AM (/ZZCn)

590

566 Am I the only moron that wishes Michael Savage would STFU?

---------

No, you're not.

I used to listen to Savage daily until, sometime during the Iraq war, he turned on a dime. He switched from supporting the war to opposing it overnight. Haven't listened since.

Clicked over while driving between here and the in-laws' during the weekend to hear him go on and on about how Romney was making a mistake not coming on his show because Romney needs Savage more than Savage needs Romney.

Came across as a sad, bitter little man spewing into a microphone.

Posted by: Anachronda at May 29, 2012 08:14 AM (FzhYM)

591 God created the universe by shooting the primal quantum singularity with a longbow. Discuss.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 29, 2012 08:14 AM (GBXon)

592 Yes, Mama AJ, it's a link to Stacy McCain.

Posted by: Tami at May 29, 2012 08:15 AM (X6akg)

593 WTF? They arrested Aaron?!

Posted by: Ian S. at May 29, 2012 08:15 AM (tqwMN)

594 (There's some law about not knowing both position and velocity of a molecule precisely)

Its called Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.

http://is.gd/8EsvQM

Also work by Erin Schrodinger. (remember his cat?)

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 08:15 AM (YdQQY)

595 A priest, a rabbi, and a fish walk into this bar...

Posted by: Thomas Aquinas at May 29, 2012 12:14 PM (/ZZCn)

These two baby seals walk into this club, see...

Posted by: Insomniac at May 29, 2012 08:16 AM (DrWcr)

596 Yeah, waiting for more info on the Aaron Worthing story. I'm betting he was arrested for contempt, but not sure if that's because it was a "violation" of the "peace order" or if he said something the judge didn't like.

A court transcript would be nice but that'll take a while.

Posted by: grognard, SMOD-Squad at May 29, 2012 08:16 AM (NS2Mo)

597 Aaron by his own account couldn't seem to keep quiet when he was before a judge before. I'm guessing he started arguing with this judge.

They don't like that. I'm not saying he deserves it or anything but there is such a thing as speaking out when not appropriate. His sense of outrage gets the better of him. I can relate. A judge, when they have your future in their hands, can be very frustrating when they won't entertain your logic/arguments or want to be very punctilious about the law.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 08:16 AM (CP+yl)

598
*The wife did say Heisenberg's Uncertaintly principle is "kinda QM" but "not really" more like "it's applicable in QM, but also elsewhere." I stopped paying attention at that point.

Posted by: tsrblke at May 29, 2012 12:12 PM (22rSN)

So I abused it? Sorry!

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 08:16 AM (MMM7r)

599 God created the universe by shooting the primal quantum singularity with a longbow. Discuss.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 29, 2012 12:14 PM (GBXon)

HERESY! BURN HIM!

Posted by: Sacred Order of the Crossbow at May 29, 2012 08:16 AM (DrWcr)

600 That should be Erwin above

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 08:17 AM (YdQQY)

601 UPDATE: According to a source, Kimberlin claimed during the hearing that he has received death threats as a result of WalkerÂ’s violation of the peace order.

Posted by: Tami at May 29, 2012 08:18 AM (X6akg)

602 Tami, wonderful. The attacker is claiming to be the victim. Where have we heard that before?

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 08:19 AM (nfwzc)

603 According to a source, Kimberlin claimed during the hearing that he has
received death threats as a result of WalkerÂ’s violation of the peace
order.

I wonder if he has screen-caps of stuff the Morons said.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 08:19 AM (8y9MW)

604

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 12:16 PM (MMM7r)

All I know is she said "Is this another Thought experiment, you're doing it wrong stop trying." Followed by "I hate when people who don't understand physics try to discuss QM."

I guess I should stick to biology and philosophy.

Posted by: tsrblke at May 29, 2012 08:19 AM (22rSN)

605 The attacker is claiming to be the victim. Where have we heard that before?

Ooh, pick me, pick me!

Posted by: Zombie Saint Trayvon at May 29, 2012 08:20 AM (tqwMN)

606 AllenG, probably so if he has Google booby-trapped to scream every time someone publishes online his full name.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 08:20 AM (nfwzc)

607 According to a source, Kimberlin claimed during the hearing that he has
received death threats as a result of WalkerÂ’s violation of the peace
order.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 08:21 AM (8y9MW)

608 Let me make sure I understand this correctly: Are you claiming that a newborn today could potentially live without sin his or her whole life and upon death be admitted into heaven based on his or her works alone, and that Christ's death by offering a means of forgiveness to those have failed, is only an alternative for the rest of us?

Posted by: Grey Fox, crouched in his mountain fastness at May 29, 2012 12:10 PM (6t8l2)

He would have to be baptized but yeah. In fact anybody can get into heaven if God, in his infinite mercy, allows that you are good..that you have followed the natural law written on your heart by him perfectly. It can't really happen because that baby would have concupiscence (tendency toward sin), not have God's saving grace available through the sacraments, or the benefit of revelation to know what God has asked but it's not your faith alone. Hell, some evil dictator could have faith or some stupid abortion doctor. It's how he acts that matters. I know Luther wanted to screw his housekeeper but the idea that just believing is enough is wacky.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 08:22 AM (Z5iSP)

609 If that's the case Anna then the blog about Kimberlin day may have not been a good idea.

I would guess that Kimberlin has claimed that Aaron's blogging was responsible for Friday and that he received threats because of the notoriety.

However it did have a salutary effect as now Kimberlin cannot point to a particular individual and single them out for further blame for his being outed. Too bad about Aaron though.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 08:22 AM (CP+yl)

610 400 My brother-in-law of 42 years had an affair with a Malaysian broad in Brunai and brings her back home. I'm explaining to my kid why we won't see him anymore--He did a very bad thing.--Kid says, "Gasp, did he vote for Obama?" "No, honey, nothing that bad."

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 10:46 AM (Z5iSP)

LOL!

Posted by: baldilocks at May 29, 2012 08:24 AM (6kWFm)

611 if he has Google booby-trapped to scream every time someone publishes online his full name.

Friday probably Cloward-Piven'ed the living hell out of that setup.

Posted by: Ian S. at May 29, 2012 08:24 AM (tqwMN)

612 So, maybe ace is waiting for more news about Aaron before blogging about it. But a new post would be nice before we hit 1,000 in a morning news thread.

Posted by: joncelli, heartless Con and all around unpleasant guy at May 29, 2012 08:25 AM (RD7QR)

613 Was there a court order forbidding Worthing from talking about Kimberlin? I must have missed it.

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at May 29, 2012 08:25 AM (NG097)

614

Hey Mo's, just driving by. If any of your lib friends want to escape the Evil Empire Amerika, tell them some housing has come available in Syria.

;;;;;

Win-win.

Posted by: Meremortal at May 29, 2012 08:26 AM (Usk3+)

615 >>>>Your disbelief in the existence of God or Leprechauns is a product of
your belief in Something that splits the beliefs of this world into
"reasonable" and "fantastic".

But as you can see above, what splits the definitions is experience rather than faith.

Still a belief.    You try to draw a distinction between experience and faith.   My faith is based on my experience.   My belief is based on my experience.   You use your experience to make judgements on things you do not know for sure (one cannot prove a negative).   This is faith.

You're silently inserting a "blind" modifier into your use of the word faith.

A faith that the world will continue to operate as it is, based on past experience, or faith that God exists, because of mankind's past experience with God, are faiths; these are not blind faiths as commonly understood.

Faith does not have to be blind, faith just means we are extrapolating what we know onto the unknown.      These can be "reasonable" extrapolations, or "fantastic" extrapolations, but they are extrapolations, they are faiths, and they are based on beliefs.

Glad to explain your own belief system to you.   Now tell me something I don't know.    (Atheism has superior reason and understanding to theism, does it not?)

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 08:26 AM (MMM7r)

616

I can tell I've been out of the office for two extra days (had Friday off as well).

My ability to tune-out the insipid conversations that regularly occur in the cube next to mine has atrophied, and this lady is driving me to insanity complaining about Android vs. iPhone's OS.

Shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up.

Posted by: reason at May 29, 2012 08:26 AM (sPO/s)

617 Over at Gateway Pundit:

Breaking: Domestic Terrorist Kimberlin Has Conservative Blogger Arrested

Posted by: shibumi at May 29, 2012 08:26 AM (z63Tr)

618 I would guess that Kimberlin has claimed that Aaron's blogging was responsible for Friday and that he received threats because of the notoriety.

Blog About Kimberlin day should have been fine. The problem is that commenters (here and elsewhere) were talking about "what they'd do to Kimberlin." Added to that, at least one person here specified how you could find Kimberlin's address and other personal details: So, yes, from a "reasonable" perspective, he received threats. It was stupid of people to make those comments.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 08:26 AM (8y9MW)

619 Afternoon, all.

I'm listening to Rush to see if he has the balls to mention Kimberlin. If he doesn't I'm done with him.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 29, 2012 08:27 AM (UOM48)

620 Was there a court order forbidding Worthing from talking about K------lin?

I must have missed it.

Posted by: toby928Â© Person of Pallor at May 29, 2012 12:25 PM (NG097)

Such an order would presumably violate the First Amendment on its face.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 29, 2012 08:27 AM (v+QvA)

621 toby.....there was a 'peace order'. Kimberlain claims that Aaron blogging violated the peace order.

Posted by: Tami at May 29, 2012 08:28 AM (X6akg)

622 "Have to be baptized" dagny? Now I got to go tear out another passage. "If you believe in your heart the Lord Jesus Christ and confess with your mouth He was raised from the dead, thou shalt be saved". It's all about love fellow babies.

Posted by: teej at May 29, 2012 08:28 AM (sbimF)

623 In other news, seriously...who else read about the Miami Hobo-Hunting Cannibal, and thought to themselves, "Well, shit. So ends the AoSHQ."

Posted by: reason at May 29, 2012 08:28 AM (sPO/s)

624 Was there a court order forbidding Worthing from talking about Kimberlin?

As I understand it, the Order of Protection (or whatever it was) forbid contact. In probability, what got him arrested was well meaning, hyper-emotional conservatives who went over the line while venting their spleens.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 08:28 AM (8y9MW)

625 He would have to be baptized but yeah.
Posted by: dagny
.......
Didn't the Catholic Church recently say a person can get into heaven even without baptism?

There are an awful lot of humans on this planet who are never even introduced to Christ in the course of their lives.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at May 29, 2012 08:28 AM (f9c2L)

626 The Google story in the Daily Mail made it clear they were gathering info from unsecured networks. That doesn't make it right and your claim that the stuff is being "broadcast to the world" rings hollow. That is clearly not the intention of the average person who has a wireless network and Google was DEAD WRONG for doing what they did. Gabriel Malor, my least favorite contributor here. Why don't you stick with things you know about, like giving amnesty to illegals?

Posted by: Ken Royall at May 29, 2012 08:29 AM (9zzk+)

627 OT (I am joking)
Friday was Trayvon Martin Day at Malcolm X Elementary School in D.C.

Posted by: RioBravo at May 29, 2012 08:29 AM (eEfYn)

628 Kimberlin's address and phone number was not that difficult to find. It's in public records and they were available at quite a few sites that blogged about him and through a regular search.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 08:30 AM (CP+yl)

629 I got to go tear out another passage.
"If you believe in your heart the Lord Jesus Christ and confess with your mouth He was raised from the dead, thou shalt be saved".

Oh, goody, now we can discuss whether or not Baptism is required for salvation. This should be fun.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 08:30 AM (8y9MW)

630 Can someone explain to me how a resident of Maryland can get a "peace order" in a Maryland court against a resident of Virginia? Also, how in the world would said "peace order" have any standing outside the state of Maryland?

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at May 29, 2012 08:30 AM (JxMoP)

631

According to a source, Kimberlin claimed during the hearing that he has

received death threats as a result of WalkerÂ’s violation of the peace

order.
--------------

How is that relevant to anything, even if he proved it to the judge? I can't imagine a judge taking into account "death threats" from third parties.

Posted by: Jimmah at May 29, 2012 08:30 AM (cWkOB)

632

"Added to that, at least one person here specified how you could find Kimberlin's address and other personal details: So, yes, from a "reasonable" perspective, he received threats. It was stupid of people to make those comments."

#Justice4Aaron

Posted by: Spike Lee in an Alternate Universe at May 29, 2012 08:30 AM (sPO/s)

633 Â“I hate when people who don't understand physics try to discuss QM." Its magic prole, back to the grindstone, only we partially insane can grasp the genius of God.

Posted by: Jean at May 29, 2012 08:31 AM (UIE9v)

634 Friday was Trayvon Martin Day at Malcolm X Elementary School in D.C.

Posted by: RioBravo at May 29, 2012 12:29 PM (eEfYn)

Did they serve iced tea and Skittles? Were burglary tools and women's jewelry given out as door prizes?

Posted by: Insomniac at May 29, 2012 08:31 AM (v+QvA)

635 Ah, I missed a religion thread because I was buying grocercies and having an old lady shake her finger at me and say "remember to go to chruch!"

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 29, 2012 08:31 AM (XdlcF)

636 Who thinks comment 643 contains one or more 'snotty' comments?

If this keeps up Gabriel Malor will need to file for a peace order.

Posted by: RioBravo at May 29, 2012 08:32 AM (eEfYn)

637 Ian S. his computer probably died a screaming death Friday as all its magic smoke escaped.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 08:32 AM (nfwzc)

638 just curious any more sightings of that POS Coward Robert Ford?

Posted by: AuthorLMendez at May 29, 2012 08:32 AM (yAor6)

639 Kimberlin's address and phone number was not that difficult to find.

"Not that difficult to find" and "posted in a blog comments section where, by the way, people are talking about the physical harm they would visit on Mr. Kimberlin" are so far apart its almost not worth discussing.

This is exactly the kind of thing Ace was talking about last week (both before and after he dropped the banhammer on Hedgehog) that would make things more difficult.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 08:32 AM (8y9MW)

640 >>Its magic prole, back to the grindstone, only we partially insane can grasp the genius of God.

Magnets! How the fuck do they work?!

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at May 29, 2012 08:33 AM (/kI1Q)

641 Hope somebody can put us some knowledge about exactly what a peace order is and how they *should* work.

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 29, 2012 08:33 AM (XdlcF)

642 Did they serve iced tea and Skittles? Were burglary tools and women's jewelry given out as door prizes?

Posted by: Insomniac at May 29, 2012 12:31 PM (v+QvA)

Only because you ask:

From the ABC7 website I learned that they also held a seminar and "...every adult who attended the seminar would receive an Arizona Iced Tea and each student would get a bag of Skittles."

Posted by: RioBravo at May 29, 2012 08:33 AM (eEfYn)

643

"Friday was Trayvon Martin Day at Malcolm X Elementary School in D.C.
Posted by: RioBravo at May 29, 2012 12:29 PM (eEfYn) "

The entire student body was given an Honorary Suspension.

Posted by: reason at May 29, 2012 08:34 AM (sPO/s)

644

>>Oh, goody, now we can discuss whether or not Baptism is required for salvation.

Longbows are, of course, required for Baptism.

In the South.

Posted by: Mama AJ, as helpful as ever at May 29, 2012 08:35 AM (XdlcF)

645 we were discussing theology and only incidentally touched on religion.

Or was it we were discussing religion and only incidentally touched on theology.

Anyway we then had a simultaneous discussion on one of the great questions of the day: Evolution? Upstart quack theory or bonifide Science.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 08:35 AM (CP+yl)

646 Blog About Kimberlin day should have been fine. The problem is that commenters (here and elsewhere) were talking about "what they'd do to Kimberlin." Added to that, at least one person here specified how you could find Kimberlin's address and other personal details: So, yes, from a "reasonable" perspective, he received threats. It was stupid of people to make those comments.

Be that as it may, there is case law in Federal court that blog owners, right and left, aren't responsible for comments made in an open internet forum, even if the comments are moderated or require a log in account.

Dana Loesch posted a link in her twitter feed.

This is a fucking idiot judge. Kimberlin won the judicial lottery by drawing this asshole.

Posted by: grognard, SMOD-Squad at May 29, 2012 08:35 AM (NS2Mo)

647

"Magnets! How the fuck do they work?!"

How does it work? (How does it work?)

How does it work - work - WORK?

Posted by: Team Umi Zoomi at May 29, 2012 08:35 AM (sPO/s)

648 "Friday was Trayvon Martin Day at Malcolm X Elementary School in D.C. Posted by: RioBravo at May 29, 2012 12:29 PM (eEfYn) " The entire student bodywas given an Honorary Suspension. Posted by: reason at May 29, 2012 12:34 PM (sPO/s) And a hoodie.

Posted by: elizabethe at May 29, 2012 08:36 AM (nHtaS)

649 Added to that, at least one person here specified how you could find Kimberlin's address and other personal details: So, yes, from a "reasonable" perspective, he received threats. It was stupid of people to make those comments.

What.

Third party commentary being used against...I'm sorry, that fails even the most rudimentary logical, ethical, or moral tests.

If that's the state of law, screw it. It ain't worth saving. Let it go.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 29, 2012 08:36 AM (GBXon)

650 We were talking about unsecured means of communication, ie Google doing a Hoover on those WiFis ... comments on a blog are even more unsecure but we had people go off on snark rants that were indistinguishable from legit threats and then Hedgehog had to push finding Brett's address [ assuming it was right, remember Zimmerman and the wrong address anyone?]. Yeah that was just ugly.

Lets see what new information turns up on what happened to Aaron before we go speculating down the wrong rabbit hole.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 08:37 AM (nfwzc)

651 @643 I think he's everybody's least fav, I denounce myself

Posted by: AuthorLMendez at May 29, 2012 08:37 AM (yAor6)

652 >>"...and each student would get a bag of Skittles."

Zero tolerance policy against candy on school grounds hardest hit.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at May 29, 2012 08:37 AM (/kI1Q)

653

Oh thank God. Kofi Annan has conveyed to Assad that the international community is concerned about the violence in Syria.

;;;;;;

Now we can move on. I'm so grateful.

Posted by: Meremortal at May 29, 2012 08:37 AM (Usk3+)

654 Hey.. could someone call NYPD and see if Ace was SWATted?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at May 29, 2012 08:37 AM (f9c2L)

655

Being D.C., Heather, I question if they mean actual candy, or the drug that goes by "Skittles."

Posted by: reason at May 29, 2012 08:39 AM (sPO/s)

656 You better WORK.

Posted by: RuPaul, Supermodel of the World at May 29, 2012 08:39 AM (/kI1Q)

657

I know Luther wanted to screw his housekeeper but the idea that just believing is enough is wacky.

Luther didn't even meet Katherine until well after the Reformation was underway.

As for the rest - Holy Crap! My one of my theology professors used to refer to the Catholic position as "Semi-Pelagian." I thought he was exaggerating somewhat, but after reading what you just wrote, I am wondering if the "semi-" isn't a courtesy!

Posted by: Grey Fox, crouched in his mountain fastness at May 29, 2012 08:39 AM (6t8l2)

658 Heh, I got comment 666. I'm wearin' that as a badge of honor, yo.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 29, 2012 08:39 AM (GBXon)

659 @671 - I think a more effective intimidation tactic would be for Ace to get Animal Control called on him.

Posted by: reason at May 29, 2012 08:40 AM (sPO/s)

660 >>Being D.C., Heather, I question if they mean actual candy, or the drug that goes by "Skittles."

There's that. Zero-tolerance policy on OTC drugs also hard hit.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at May 29, 2012 08:40 AM (/kI1Q)

661 We, of course, need more details. Maybe Aaron lost his cool and cursed the judge or something. I was reading what I could find out on various Maryland judicial websites and the only thing I can find that might be applicable as an order to Walker is harassing. I would think that's a stretch. http://is.gd/R9CN2P

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at May 29, 2012 08:40 AM (NG097)

662 @646. It's all been "fun" Allen. At least for those of us who can enjoy these types of discussions w/o getting pissed. And thanks. You are one of many around here who often says what I would say but do it much better. Allows me to just stfu and enjoy the show.

Posted by: teej at May 29, 2012 08:40 AM (sbimF)

663 Seriously, then this afternoon when my life erupts into chaos there will be 20 new ace threads. He has GOT to get up earlier.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 08:41 AM (Z5iSP)

664 Be that as it may, there is case law in Federal court that blog owners, right and left, aren't responsible for comments made in an open internet forum, even if the comments are moderated or require a log in account.

IANAL, so don't ask me to back this up, but I can see how basic defamation or threats wouldn't "count" against a blogger normally- but does that change when you have an Order of Protection or a Restraining Order?

Certainly if I run a blog and people say nasty things about someone, I'm not responsible for any defamation. If they make threats, I'm not on the hook for that, either. However, if I run a blog, and a specific person takes out an Order of Protection against me, then I blog specifically about that person and, as a direct (that person can prove the relationship) result, threats or defamatory comments are made against him? I don't know. That may well be a different thing.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 08:41 AM (8y9MW)

665 I'm with you Dagny. I don't like the rapid fire threats.

Posted by: Tami at May 29, 2012 08:42 AM (X6akg)

666 ooops.....threats=threads

Posted by: Tami at May 29, 2012 08:42 AM (X6akg)

667 "Kimberlin won the judicial lottery by drawing this asshole."

Yes. It's an *accident* that no matter what he does, someone in government steps in to let him get away with it and/or punish his enemies.

A constant accident. Like winning the lottery every day. As many people do.

...

He's a *fed*, you fucking idiots. You can't do anything to him, and he and his buds can do whatever they want to do to you.

Behave appropriately.

Posted by: nope at May 29, 2012 08:43 AM (cePv8)

668 Or threats

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 29, 2012 08:43 AM (mFxQX)

669 Let's not blame a few folks who got overly excited for what happened to Aaron. We don't know why he got arrested. We don't know for sure all the details about that peace order and what Aaron was commanded to do by the judge.

I also already said that a cursory reading of Aaron's history of all this indicated to me that he had some impulse issues and took steps previously IN COURT by his own admission that were ill advised and not likely to endear him to a judge. Also, though he didn't assault Kimberlin, he did take his property from him (his Ipod or ipad) and that was wrong also and serves to point out that Aaron was not acting in his own best interests.

As I said I can understand how aggravating it is to deal with something and someone like he's dealing with but his own actions are responsible for some of his problems. Maybe today he spoke out or interrupted the judge and the judge had had enough.

I don't know. Just as no one here yet knows why he was arrested. It probably is for contempt of court.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 08:43 AM (CP+yl)

670

"IANAL"

I told them to file that patent!

Posted by: zombie Steve Jobs at May 29, 2012 08:43 AM (sPO/s)

671 So, when Gabby makes a cell phone call ....

Some folks here really take the "moron" label literally.

Posted by: datsnotamore at May 29, 2012 08:43 AM (Cb0k8)

672 In Alabama, even lowly municipal judges can throw you in the clink for up to a year-less-a-day for having your cell phone go off in court. Just noting that contempt is a powerful and vague charge that judges use whenever they want to.

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at May 29, 2012 08:44 AM (NG097)

673 UPDATE II: A copy of the Â“final peace orderÂ” (time-stamped 10:52 a.m.) states that Kimberlin is Â“in fear of imminent serious bodily harmÂ” as a result of a Â“countless numberÂ” of death threats, and that Â“there is clear and convincing evidence that [Walker] is likely to commit a prohibited act in the future against [Kimberlin].Â”

Posted by: Tami at May 29, 2012 08:45 AM (X6akg)

674 This thread stinks like dead fish. It was put up before 7 a.m. today.

Meanwhile, Obama told everyone he was born in Kenya. Why?

Posted by: TheLittlShiningMan at May 29, 2012 08:45 AM (PH+2B)

675 However, if I run a blog, and a specific person takes out an Order of Protection against me, then I blog specifically about that person and, as a direct (that person can prove the relationship) result, threats or defamatory comments are made against him? I don't know. That may well be a different thing.

Maybe. But his blog post wasn't inciting anyone to make threats or violent acts. It was simply factual. He's not responsible for what other people say and do based on their own judgment after reading those facts.

Additionally, the original Peace Order was bogus.

So Walker has two ways to go at this.

Posted by: grognard, SMOD-Squad at May 29, 2012 08:45 AM (NS2Mo)

676 Just noting that contempt is a powerful and vague charge that judges use whenever they want to.

Posted by: toby928Â© Person of Pallor at May 29, 2012 12:44 PM (NG097)

And there is no bail

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 29, 2012 08:45 AM (mFxQX)

677 From Tami's link - The Other McCain

UPDATE II: A copy of the Â“final peace orderÂ” (time-stamped 10:52 a.m.) states that Kimberlin is Â“in fear of imminent serious bodily harmÂ” as a result of a Â“countless numberÂ” of death threats, and that Â“there is clear and convincing evidence that [Walker] is likely to commit a prohibited act in the future against [Kimberlin].Â”

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 08:45 AM (nfwzc)

678

>> I don't like the rapid fire threats.

Ah, get a peace order.

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 29, 2012 08:46 AM (XdlcF)

679 Didn't the Catholic Church recently say a person can get into heaven even without baptism? There are an awful lot of humans on this planet who are never even introduced to Christ in the course of their lives. Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at May 29, 2012 12:28 PM (f9c2L) It's not really recent, the church has always understood that there is a Baptism of Desire, an implicit desire to unified to God in Heaven, even if you have imperfect knowledge of God and Christ (Peter talks about somewhere, I'm not a Biblical Scholar) How I understand it is that the Sacraments (Baptism, Confirmation, Confession, etc.) were given to us by God because we are humans and we need them. They aren't limitations on God.

Posted by: elizabethe at May 29, 2012 08:46 AM (nHtaS)

680 And there is no bail Because there is no appeal.

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at May 29, 2012 08:47 AM (NG097)

681 The rapid fire thread have great content and are on top for 10 minutes. Then there will be a vapid thread about cute pot-bellied pigs of something that will stay up all day. I'm hung over as hell and hubby woke me up at 5:10 scratching his mosquito bites. I thought there was an earth quake.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 08:47 AM (Z5iSP)

682 So the takeaway is Kimberlin is a whiny little puss?

It's raining here and I'm bored. Someone shake the HQ cage.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 29, 2012 08:47 AM (UOM48)

683

"Because there is no appeal."

I never have this problem.

Posted by: John Edwards at May 29, 2012 08:47 AM (sPO/s)

684 We never did get a review of The Avengers, did we?

Posted by: Waterhouse at May 29, 2012 08:48 AM (Go/E/)

685

Oh, goody, now we can discuss whether or not Baptism is required for salvation. This should be fun.

As a fellow Campbellite, AllenG, I almost feel that I ought to warn anyone attempting to engage you on that one.

Almost..... but countless David Lipscomb, Freed-Hardeman, and Harding grads are murmuring "Nope - go for it. Immerse yourself fully in it."

Posted by: A. Pendragon at May 29, 2012 08:48 AM (pYA5L)

686 In other news, some Mooselums are upset. Unexpectedly.

Posted by: RioBravo at May 29, 2012 08:48 AM (eEfYn)

687 Maybe. But his blog post wasn't inciting anyone to make threats or violent acts. It was simply factual. He's not responsible for what other people say and do based on their own judgment after reading those facts.

I agree that it's bogus. I can just see that there was just "that much" out there for the courts (which, I'll remind you, have already proven strangely sympathetic to Mr. Kimberlin) to decide on this ruling.

Even if it gets overturned at some point (I'm not sure what the process is), Kimberlin will play the "poor-little-me" angle for a long time.

Not that he wasn't already, of course.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 08:48 AM (8y9MW)

688 If Edwards is found guilty, I hope we get a flaming skull with Silky Pony pink hair.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 29, 2012 08:49 AM (UOM48)

689

OK at some point this is going to have to piss off the MSM. We're officially reaching a point, where it could be argued that a Peace Order would prevent a reporter from doing their job, even sans contact.

Imagine if the NYT or the WSJ were held responsible for the death threats garnered by any story they wrote. They'd be worse reporting than they already are! The only argument that Kimberlin has going for him is that a blogger isn't a reporter. IANAL, but I understand that's a sticky proposition with some courts holding it to be true and some not.

Posted by: tsrblke at May 29, 2012 08:49 AM (22rSN)

690

"hubby woke me up at 5:10 scratching his mosquito bites. I thought there was an earth quake. "

Perhaps he was celebrating the Weinerversarry in appropriate style?

Posted by: reason at May 29, 2012 08:49 AM (sPO/s)

691 No, you can get into heaven without baptism, maybe. I think that's the Church's position too. Maybe so don't count on it. Jesus is pretty clear on the baptism thing so you can't say for sure but there is baptism of desire and baptism of blood.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 08:49 AM (Z5iSP)

692 We never did get a review of The Avengers, did we? Posted by: Waterhouse at May 29, 2012 12:48 PM (Go/E/) No, no we haven't. I hardly know what to do with all the time that's freed up.

Posted by: elizabethe at May 29, 2012 08:49 AM (nHtaS)

693 So, people can be legally protected from the results of their own douchebaggery now?

Seriously?

Seriously?

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 29, 2012 08:50 AM (GBXon)

694 Is the blog wobbly for everyone? Or just me?

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at May 29, 2012 08:50 AM (NG097)

695 Peter talks about somewhere

Paul, actually, though I don't remember the letter. "If those who are apart from the law obey the Law in their hearts..." or something like that. Hmm... maybe it was the Hebrews Writer.

But that is specifically addressing people who have neither heard, nor had a chance to hear, about God.

The question of whether or not an infant or child requires baptism is a different one (are they considered "innocent" or are we born into sin?).

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 08:51 AM (8y9MW)

696 Purely a rhetorical question:

How many times will people be poked in the chest before taking direct action?

Posted by: grognard, SMOD-Squad at May 29, 2012 08:51 AM (NS2Mo)

697 It could get real interesting if we had a rapture thread. Pre- mid- or post-tribulational? Or maybe the only one that takes all relevant scripture into account.

Posted by: teej at May 29, 2012 08:51 AM (sbimF)

698 No, you can get into heaven without baptism, maybe. I think that's the Church's position too. Maybe so don't count on it.

The Cliff's Notes is that if the option wasn't available to you, and you're otherwise on the right path, you're in. If it was open and you just didn't take it...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 29, 2012 08:52 AM (GBXon)

699 It could get real interesting if we had a rapture thread.

How about, "The Modern idea of the Rapture is silly?" Where does that come in?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 08:54 AM (8y9MW)

700 What other sources are covering the reported arrest of Worthing?

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 08:55 AM (nfwzc)

701 Syria: Russia refuses to change stance despite William Hague's efforts Russia refused brusquely to change its stance on Syria in the wake of the Houla massacre on Monday as Foreign Secretary William Hague's mission to Moscow ended with little sign of a diplomatic breakthrough. But But But But obama hit the reset button????

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 29, 2012 08:55 AM (05RcU)

702 New thread time.......where's the cob's?

Posted by: © Sponge at May 29, 2012 08:55 AM (UK9cE)

703 Baptism of Desire is a real teaching of the Church. If you have recourse to Baptism by water then you need to go get that -- you can't say "well, I want to go to heaven, and I could get Baptized with water, but I won't, I'll just do that Baptism of Desire thing." It's not a choice you can make, it's clear that we're meant to get the Sacrament. But if you have never had recourse to it (say you die on your way into the church to get Baptized or you've never even heard of Christ), but have come to desire God (good) and heaven in your heart, you can still get to heaven. Your intention is clear to God. Like I said. Sacraments are for us, not for God. Link to an explanation of baptism of desire. http://www.catholicessentials.net/baptismofdesire.htm

Posted by: elizabethe at May 29, 2012 08:55 AM (nHtaS)

704 UPDATE III: To understand what is going on here, please see my column today at The American Spectator:

During his time in federal prison, [Kimberlin] became a prodigious jailhouse lawyer, filing more than 100 actions on his own behalf, and his litigious habits have continued until this day. When Patrick Frey, the blogger known as Patterico, wrote about KimberlinÂ’s criminal past in 2010, he was immediately threatened with a libel suit. By then, Kimberlin had already sued Seth Allen, who eventually got legal assistance from Aaron Walker, a Virginia attorney who had blogged under the pseudonym Â“Aaron Worthing.Â” This evidently made Walker a target of KimberlinÂ’s harassment tactics, with the result that Walker says both he and his wife lost their jobs. . . .
KimberlinÂ’s critics say his litigation against Allen and Walker, and threats of action against others, are a type of Â“lawfare,Â” which is defined as Â“the illegitimate use of domestic or international law with the intention of damaging an opponent, winning a public relations victory, financially crippling an opponent, or tying up the opponentÂ’s time so that they cannot pursue other ventures such as running for public office.Â” And this is part of what many see as a wide-ranging strategy of intimidation waged against conservatives . . .

Read the whole thing. IÂ’m still trying to confirm facts about WalkerÂ’s hearing and reported arrest.

Posted by: Tami at May 29, 2012 08:55 AM (X6akg)

705

I think I'm gonna vote for Ted Cruz mostly because Dewhurst sent me too many mailers, and Lepperts TV ads were annoying as fuck.

CRUZ: BY DEFAULT.

I'm also pissed that D/FW is gonna get a stupid little blue sliver in the electoral map by the end of this year. Screw that. The little blue sliver in the Austin area was more than enough already.

Posted by: reason at May 29, 2012 08:55 AM (sPO/s)

706 The Cliff's Notes is that if the option wasn't available to you, and you're otherwise on the right path, you're in. If it was open and you just didn't take it... Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 29, 2012 12:52 PM (GBXon) Yes, this.

Posted by: elizabethe at May 29, 2012 08:56 AM (nHtaS)

707 If baptism is required for salvation, explain the thief on the cross next to Jesus. Look at the situation mathematically. Jesus is perfect, and dies for everyones' sins, thus his sacrifice is worth infinity. Say you do three good deeds every day for your entire adult life, which comes out to 60,000 good deeds. The good deeds are a rounding error in comparison to the infinity of Jesus' sacrifice.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at May 29, 2012 08:56 AM (DRgeg)

708 I would absolutely return Bill Gates' wallet.

Who could resist holding his cash in a wad, waving it in front of him and yelling "Who's got the driver now Bitch!"

Posted by: DaveA at May 29, 2012 08:56 AM (NqmTy)

709 My grandmother was a cambellite. In fact her great grandfather was an early minister in the Church of Christ. I'll never forget the a capella launch into Amazing Grace at her funeral. I had no idea they didn't use an organ (is that normal?). When I was little I thought my dad was saying "camelite" and that there were camels at his church when he was a kid. I figured it had something to do with the manger.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 08:57 AM (Z5iSP)

710

713 -

Purely rhetorical answer: you might get in one before I do my best to snap off the finger. Might. More likely, as soon as it gets within 12 inches of my chest, a ball of five of my fingers is crashing through finger boy's face.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 29, 2012 08:58 AM (TOk1P)

711 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 12:51 PM (8y9MW) Peter, too. Somewhere in Acts, he recognizes that you can receive the Holy Spirit without first receiving Baptism by water (talking about some pagans).

Posted by: elizabethe at May 29, 2012 08:58 AM (nHtaS)

712 I think I would make Bill Gates call India and stay on hold for several hours to get the wallet though. I might "update" the wallet by sewing it together so it didn't work as expected too.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 08:59 AM (Z5iSP)

713 Newark Mayor Cory Booker's (D) communication director confirmed to the Newark Star Ledger that she is resigning in the wake of Booker's disastrous appearance on Meet The Press last week.

Said Anne Torres: "I just decided it is best if I pursued other opportunities. We have very different views on how communications should be run."

Posted by: Attack Watch at May 29, 2012 09:00 AM (e8kgV)

714 Reckon the Afternoon Open Thread will be along directly.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at May 29, 2012 09:00 AM (gPDxp)

715 In other news,
From HispanicBusiness.com, Ryan Robinson, demographer for the City of Austin is quoted:

"Our young population is becoming overwhelmingly Hispanic. That's significant, and it points to educational and social service needs. It points to a very different future than what we've had in the past."

Posted by: RioBravo at May 29, 2012 09:01 AM (eEfYn)

716 Moses parted the Red Sea, Oppenheimer split the atom, but "Bob" cut the crap.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at May 29, 2012 09:01 AM (M1Fc9)

717 give him the wallet but not the money and tell him he has to reinstall the wallet's operating system from scratch just to get it open.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at May 29, 2012 09:02 AM (CP+yl)

718 Just for fun, here's a video of a dwarf kitten:

http://tinyurl.com/89pvtxg

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 29, 2012 09:02 AM (UOM48)

719 Jesus...it's already past 1 PM EST and no sign of the Ewok. Someone turn on the signal light.

Posted by: EC at May 29, 2012 09:02 AM (GQ8sn)

720 So today is a post free day then?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Troll Hunter! at May 29, 2012 09:02 AM (0q2P7)

721 And Obama parted many people from their money on a promise of hope and change.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 29, 2012 09:02 AM (nfwzc)

722 Also, I was taught in high school (a nice, Catholic school) that, in extremis, any Catholic in good standing could perform a baptism, though if the recipient survived the circumstances a 'proper' baptism (and/or confirmation as the case may be) would be called for. It's not something that comes up frequently hereabouts, but it's out there if the need arises.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 29, 2012 09:02 AM (GBXon)

723 Ace post up

Posted by: Vic at May 29, 2012 09:03 AM (YdQQY)

724 Ewok is up

Posted by: Tami at May 29, 2012 09:03 AM (X6akg)

725 I'm listening to Rush to see if he has the balls to mention Kimberlin. If he doesn't I'm done with him.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 29, 2012 12:27 PM (UOM4

Anything yet? There's nothing on his website. I can almost guarantee Tammy Bruce will mention today's action in the next 2 hours.

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 29, 2012 09:03 AM (7Ph7Z)

726
I have a bad feeling about this.

Posted by: soothsayer at May 29, 2012 09:03 AM (9Q7Nu)

727 @716. That one must come from a different book. Unless of course someones idea of modern includes Paul's letters to the Thessalonians, and other allusions to the same to be "modern".

Posted by: teej at May 29, 2012 09:04 AM (sbimF)

728 If baptism is required for salvation, explain the thief on the cross next to Jesus. Look at the situation mathematically. Jesus is perfect, and dies for everyones' sins, thus his sacrifice is worth infinity.

The thief on the cross has not opportunity for Baptism- at least, not subsequent to his Confession of Christ. On the other hand, you most certainly have had that opportunity.

That's basically where the Catholic Church seems to come down- it's certainly what we believe in the Church of Christ: if you want salvation, you need baptism.

If you never hear of Christ, or something happens between when you decide to be baptized and your first opportunity (remember, the Ethiopian Eunich simply said, "Here is water, why should I not be baptized?"), then the Bible seems to support the idea that you're covered. If you decide to be baptized but put if off for some reason, then I believe you're in danger.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 29, 2012 09:05 AM (8y9MW)

729 The truth is engraved upon your enneagram. It requires the deadly Q-switch ritual to recover it. Are you ready?

Posted by: Dr. Varno at May 29, 2012 09:06 AM (M1Fc9)

730

For Immediate Release:

The blog is being revised to reflect ideas more clearly within certain domains which could subscribe to firewalls not being overly cautious that could impair the backlog of binary code.

Thank You,

Mgmt.

Posted by: Blog Team Regional Director with a Series 6 License at May 29, 2012 09:07 AM (QWOh7)

731

Dagny - honestly, a lot of the CoC don't much care for the term "Campbellite." It was a term applied to them by other Protestants, and not always in a complimentary fashion. I was just using it as a sort of in-joke to AllenG.

But yeah, a capella and the absence of any instruments is pretty much the norm in most mainline Church of Christ.

Posted by: A. Pendragon at May 29, 2012 09:08 AM (pYA5L)

732

@AllenG,

The Catholic Church gets a little strange though on certain issues when you get down into the nitty gritty. If for example you were rasied by rabid atheists or not particularly religious people, the Church is silent on exactly how much you need to be hear about Christ before you need to accept him (IIRC the actual cannon wording is "through no fault of their own."

The long and short of the Church Position is more of a "Get Baptised, but we can't know how God decides these things, so we're not judging anything anymore!" They now hold the same position on Suicide as a moral sin. (We just can't know.)

Posted by: tsrblke at May 29, 2012 09:09 AM (22rSN)

733

dagny - not to speak ill of the dead (only their family, zing!), but the a capella Amazing Grace at my wife's ex-husband's funeral was grueling.

We went through all verses. All. Verses. Started off with a tempo in the 80's, but ended with a tempo easily below 60, with huge pauses between lines as everyone tried to scan the lyrics handed out, without looking like they had to scan the lyrics.

I informed Mrs. Reason on the drive home that, if she outlives me, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES will my funeral be anything like that.

Posted by: reason at May 29, 2012 09:09 AM (sPO/s)

734

Update:

The platform by design is working when properly viewed with choom SQL.

Posted by: Blog Team Regional Director with a Series 6 License at May 29, 2012 09:10 AM (QWOh7)

735 We have no ability to grasp the hand of God.

Sometimes we're blessed with feeling it lift us by the shirt collar, or smack us upside the head.

Posted by: DaveA at May 29, 2012 09:11 AM (NqmTy)

736 750: Simple summation: there's leeway, but if you can, it's never a bad idea.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 29, 2012 09:12 AM (GBXon)

737 751 My grandmother's funeral was beautiful. So I remember that fondly. I just pulled up her minister grandfather which led me to her great grandfather and now I'm looking at him John Burton born around 1766 in Va. It's a new link. BTW, I didn't know "cambellite" was an insult but that makes sense since my dad probably teased her with it.

Posted by: dagny at May 29, 2012 09:14 AM (Z5iSP)

738

"give him the wallet but not the money and tell him he has to reinstall the wallet's operating system from scratch just to get it open."

I'd give it back, with all the things of monetary value in-tact. But I would replace all (assuming there are any?) pictures he may have inside of family with white pieces of paper that say, "I hope you are enjoying Wallet Starter Pack. Please Upgrade to Wallet Home Premuim to access this content, plus much more!" With, of course little buttons for "Yes!" or "Remind Me Later," but never "no."

Posted by: reason at May 29, 2012 09:15 AM (sPO/s)

739 I might "update" the wallet by sewing it together

Ha,
throw it thru his window into his breakfast, every other Tuesday!

Posted by: DaveA at May 29, 2012 09:15 AM (NqmTy)

740 dagny - I'm glad it was a fond memory for you. I wish this funeral I speak of would have been a fond memory for my step-daughter, but I know it was not. For more reasons than the singing, but that was a good allegory for many other aspects.

Posted by: reason at May 29, 2012 09:17 AM (sPO/s)

741 Well, I'm just glad--after reading the baptism comments--that my parents took care of that for me when I was just a pup. Thanks, guys!

Posted by: Otis Criblecoblis at May 29, 2012 09:20 AM (IlZPo)

742 Sometimes at lunch I put CNBC on for the numbers (with the sound muted). Sometimes I listen to the weapons grade stupid for a laugh. Some random CNBC scrunt just said: "Buyers of the $30 June Facebook PUT option are betting that the stock will stay above $30."

Posted by: Bob mostly-undead Saget at May 29, 2012 09:21 AM (dBvlk)

743 >>>> You're using "personal experience," I am talking about man's experience with the physical world, and I'm primary talking about the physical world with or without man. A reasonable claim is one that can be observed (at least potentially) in the physical world. Where is God?

I'm unaware how we can talk about "man's experience" without dealing with personal experience.   Who do you think are running those scientific experiments?   Some nebulous "Science" deity?     It's men, individual men, who look to answer a question, create an experiment, collect data, and pronounce some (right or wrong) conclusion.

>>>> I do not have "faith" that the world will continue to operate as it is based on past experience. I know that there is an observable universe and a world of make-believe that goes on in the mind.

Every ounce of knowledge requires faith.   Faith that the world is knowable, faith that man's mind is sufficiently reliable to perceive that knowledge, and so on.

Your claim to "know" something is in fact a declaration of belief.   Are you going to argue that "know" and "believe" are separate things?

>>>> Sure, one can extrapolate to the unknown and be reasonable, and all extrapolations require some amount of faith (in degrees), but all extrapolations into the unknowable and unobservable are fantastic by definition.

So atheism (disbelief in God's existence) is a fantastic belief then. God is explicitly a being not constrained by the physical laws of our universe, by definition.   Atheism has no means to know or observe God if He actually existed but does not want to be found; atheists cannot reasonably make any claims on God's non-existence.

My theism lays claims to reasonable belief; that God is not merely this world's creator, but that he is a personal God interested in His creation.   It claims that He has intervened many times throughout mankind's history, must notably in Jesus, God incarnate.   These are observable and knowable claims. Jesus explicitly notes that he does observable and knowable things so that we might believe his words on the unobservable and unknowable things.

>>>> I couldn't tell ya. I'm not interested in Atheism and I'm not an Athiest.

Apologies for putting you in that category.   You're using similar arguments as the last ones I debated.

So what do you claim of yourself then? Agnostic?   Skeptical of God's existence?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 09:23 AM (sGtp+)

744 She then went on to talk about how those holding the PUT option would be forced to BUY Facebook at $30 on expiration.

Double plus facepalm.

Posted by: Bob mostly-undead Saget at May 29, 2012 09:26 AM (dBvlk)

745 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: Steevy at May 29, 2012 09:35 AM (6HIQG)

746 Never gets old.

Posted by: toby928© at May 29, 2012 09:44 AM (NG097)

747 Here is a list of Repub Congress-wienies who apparently don't want to be Congress-wienies any more:

Justin Amash (Mich.), Frank Guinta (N.H.), Todd Platts (Pa.), Mike Turner (Ohio), Connie Mack (Fla.), Tim Walberg (Mich.), Patrick Meehan (Pa.).

They are all on the House Oversight Comm but aren't supporting the "Holder in contempt of Congress" motion. All these hand-wringing, lefty compromising, jackholes need new jobs. Kick 'em to the curb.

Posted by: Jackhole Hunter at May 29, 2012 11:29 AM (L7BXh)

748 When I say "experience rather than faith," I'm talking about the approachability of the physical world with man's perception of it being secondary and obviously flawed - knowable vs. unknowable.

Unless you're a non-human intelligence, there's no way to divorce any knowledge we discuss from man's perception.    We can account for human bias the best we can, but there is no knowledge we possess or discuss that is free from human bias, because we're human.   (Correct me if you're not)

If I accept what you say, you've just said your perception of the world is obviously flawed.

It seems you want everything to require faith. Do I have to have faith for the glass to drop from my hand and break on the ground or can I simply know that it will? I know there is a physical world because it is knowable, observable, and apparent, even if my perception of it is flawed.

It's not a matter of what I want.   I am making an observation that all human claims to knowledge require belief.

What the physical world does is separate from what individual humans believe it will do.   However, your claim to know what has happened, or what happens, or what will happen, all require belief.   That you make sure your beliefs are true, to the extent you can, is commendable, but it's still a belief.

Of course they can. Atheism does not exist without a prior claim of the existence of God. The onus of proof, then, is on the one who claims that God exists. That God exists is the fantastic claim, and it is always reasonable to not believe a fantastic claim. If I were to make up an equally fantastic claim out of the air it would not behoove you to falsify it. In fact, disbelieving would require nothing at all since it would be the status quo.

Disbelieving is not the status quo. "I don't know" is the status quo. After all, without any evidence, you are making a claim on the unknown and unobserved - which by your very definition is fantastic.

X exists.   X does not exist. Both are exclusive claims to truth.   Note that I am not trying to make a judgement on who is correct here.   I am making a classification, that these two statements are of the same type - a claim about objective reality that reflects the claimant's belief.

Eh, I guess I'd say I'm a materialist. Physicalism is probably more accurate but I don't like the way it sounds.

I believe my original classification of you as an atheist was pretty close to the mark.   You're playing semantic word games about your atheism because you know that one cannot prove a negative.

There are three possible answers to the question: "Do any gods exist?"

Yes.   -> Theist   (Belief)
No.   -> Atheist   (Disbelief)
I don't know -> Agnostic (Lack of belief)

Materialist is not an answer to the question (though consistent with atheism), and your spiel about disbelief not being a type of belief is simply wrong.   Disbelief and lacking belief are not the same things.

Now for a bit of extra fun, since you're a materialist/physicalist:   What does the physical world have to do with the meaning of my post here?    English is arbitrary. ASCII is arbitrary.   They have no physical properties.   Are ideas material?    Can you find a molecule of justice?   Liberalism?   Are ideas subject to the conservation of mass or momentum?

We're clearly communicating over a physical medium, yet the physical medium has nothing to do with the content of the message.   Destroy the entirety of the physical universe - do the ideas remain?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 12:45 PM (sGtp+)

749 The Manhattan NY law firm Dewey & Leboeuf LLP filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection marking biggest collapse of a law firm in U.S. history (had about 1,450 attorneys at its peak). Dewey said that the 401(k) plans and qualified pension plans of its current and former employees and partners are held in trust and cannot be accessed by the firm's creditors. The U.S. Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation filed suit this month to take control of three of the firm's pension plans, which the agency said were underfunded by $80 million.

Posted by: Unprecedented? too big to fail at May 29, 2012 02:00 PM (lpWVn)

750
Knowledge of the physical world can be obtained because it has the potential to be observed and tested. But our understanding does not have to be complete or exact to say we "know" things without employing faith.

The glass does fall and break whether or not I have faith that it will, right? The falling tree does make noise no matter if man is present because of the physics of sound. So where is the faith there?

The human who claims to know truth is a being with faith.   If you're human, your belief system - what you think the world is, what you think the world ought to be like, all require faith.

Faith and belief is a part of all HUMAN knowledge.    The objective reality exists whether or not human beings believe in it or not; but human claims to know how the world works (Science!) require faith; especially since few of us have the ability to personally test and experience everything. We are willing to believe things are true because someone else claims it to be so. Even for the things we personally test and experience, it requires a faith in our own skills and our ability to understand the things we examine.

No. By my definition I am rejecting a claim that is unknowable, unobservable, and fantastic. If you could give me some details about God that could be observed and falsified I would be happy to admit that "I don't know," but you can't because God exists 'outside the physical world.'

What part of the historical Jesus Christ or the miracles claimed in the Bible are "unknowable" or "unobservable"?

"Fantastic" is just an easy button for you to reject anything that you don't feel comfortable with.    One man's fantastic is another man's reasonable; it's not an objective standard; especially since your use of it is in contrast to "reasonable" - based on what has been observed.    By that standard, the concept and use of electricity was fantastic up until it wasn't.   Yet the person who rejects the existence of electricity would have been wrong no matter what time period he existed in.

No, or, only insofar as we lack the ability to understand what the physical world does. But our lack of understanding does not mean we must use faith to have knowledge.

If I believe what is wrong, the world does not change to conform to my wrong views; otherwise we'd all live in a Liberal utopia.    That is what I meant.

You continue to try and rationalize your predetermined opinions about me. Why is that? I am not an Atheist because I am not particularly interested in the question to begin with and because I do not particularly like several brands of Atheists. I am not playing any games. I would loosely define myself as a materialist because that more or less aligns with my outlook. Perhaps you should spend more time listening and less time pigeonholing.

No, I am making a judgement based on experience and your line of argument.   Unless I'm to ignore what you say, your arguments say something about your belief system.

Does God exist?   Yes, no, or maybe?

"Of course Materialism answers the question. Is there a brand of materialism I am not aware of that supposes the existence of God?"

That you said this seems to mean, "No, God doesn't exist".   Guess what? That's an atheist position.   You might as well reject the label of human being or intelligence for all the good that will do you.    Black and white are not purely arbitrary classifications.   There are fundamentally different characteristics to the things they are labeling.    Call it pigeonholing if you like, if it's a true distinction, there's nothing wrong with using it.

The root physicality of all this is in the inner workings of our brains.

So mathematics, philosophy, science and knowledge are all chemical reactions in our brains?    Bull - destroy all human brains; do the laws of physics change?     Does it change the interaction of supply and demand?   Ideas are separate from matter.   They are not confined by matter.   Destroy all physical descriptions; the ideas remain.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 29, 2012 08:52 PM (MMM7r)

Hide Comments | Add Comment | Refresh | Top

Comments are disabled. Post is locked.

542kb generated in CPU 0.2014, elapsed 0.4188 seconds.
64 queries taking 0.3102 seconds, 878 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.