1 As the sidebar said, "Romney just shit a cinder block."

2 Ace -

The Tea Party did stop eliminating candidates based on weak-ass reasons, hunting for perfect fidelity.  They (we) have accepted Gingrich, despite his lack of perfect fidelity (either in conservatism or marriage).

- Z

3 Do you guys think it's too late to draft Daniels? He is giving the SotU rebuttal. What better time to announce. We have 34 hours to convince him

4

Ace: "And I told the Establishment to listen to the base"...

It has seemed that you and the establishment are on speed dial.  Did they just call and tell you to rip into Newt as much as possible before Florida or else King Romney would be done?

5 You know what I needed this morning? A mental image of Newt taking it in the butt from a chick.

6 Yep, Hobson's choice by the establishment...

7 Oh well, if Newt gets the nomination, it's 2008 all over again and we can spend 2013 trying to get the House back.

8 And I told the Establishment to listen to the base, that there were going to be big problems if they expected Romney to just take the nomination, and to find a livable alternative to that.

Wait, there's an "establishment" pulling the strings now? I thought you said that was just a silly myth.

9 Ace, why not take a second look at Santorum? You have to admit, he has potential to appeal to working class democrats. Yes, he's so-so at bet with debates, but I think he comes off pretty well other places.

10 Yeah, that about sums it up.

11

>>Ace, why not take a second look at Santorum? You have to admit, he has potential to appeal to working class democrats.

>>Yes, he's so-so at bet with debates, but I think he comes off pretty well other places.

 

He lost his last race in PA by 19%. 19%.

He's clearly not as popular with working class voters as people seem to believe.

12

At this point I hope we can hang on to the House. We are screwed. The "base" doesn't care about the middle or independent voters. The base doens't consider the general election. Nope.

btw- give up on the idea of a  last minute savior. Not going to happen. It's Newt or Romney. It's been Newt or Romney for some time now.

13 Oh, and unlike Romney, Santorum or Paul, Gingrich is "seeking to compromise" with the other candidates.  He is reaching out to Ron Paul voters on Dr. Paul's monetary policy views; he is being very complimentary of Rick Santorum on his courage and convictions, and it is clear to this viewer that Newt is ready to reach out strongly to Romney supporters once he defeats him in the primaries.  So, Ace, he should be your perfect candidate, no?

- Z

14

Romney plays tough against opponnents who are also targeted by the media.

Has he ever gone after a media darling hard?

15 This is what democracy looks like, it is the wisdom of crowds.  Love it or hate it, its still better than the alternative.

16 If nothing else, perhaps the SC results will remind supposed TP champions that you mess with the bull, you get the horn.  Maybe not nationally, but the TP can still bring big pain.  Haley better move back to the right or she'll be a one-term flame out.  How she endorsed Romney is beyond me.  

17 My order of preference... Romney Santorum Gingrich Paul

18 The Tea Party did stop eliminating candidates based on weak-ass reasons, hunting for perfect fidelity.  They (we) have accepted Gingrich, despite his lack of perfect fidelity (either in conservatism or marriage).

Bullshit.

Tell it to the likes of Pawlenty or Perry who were being ignored out of preference for unelectable, unqualified Tea Party favorites like Cain and Bachmann.

The Tea Party could've been something, but they embraced The Stupid almost every step of the way.  At this point we'd be better off without them.

19 It's getting harder to argue as to whether the shit sandwich should be on white vs. whole wheat.

20 1. Candidate does just fine 2. ace throws his support to a candidate 3. Candidate flames out and loses miserably 4. ???? 5. Profit!

21 I've never seen so many nervous nellies and pessimists in one place at one time.

22 When the TP embraced the good witch, they jumped the shark.

23 I can't figure out why people think Newty is more conservative than Mitt? Where did you get that? This is baffling me, it's like "Obama is a good speaker" or "Sarah Jessica Parker is hot and should have a TV show". WTF?

24 Santorum is a no-go. No exec. experience (my big thing to beat Obama about the head with) Now maybe you could say Newt has that from being Speaker. I say no, but at least better than Santorum. Also, Rick is weird and has no personal appeal. Anyway I agree with "whatever" and you all know this. Newt is going to lose bad with most women. But whatever, I still don't see him as the nominee, and he's entertaining right now. He can improve Mittens if Mittens allows is (sharpens up). He can go after Barry and his minions in the press. He's fun and getting people interested in the Rs - that's good! I know it's easy to say "Newt and Mitt we're screwed" but am old enough to remember that sinking feeling I had when W was the nom. Algore vs W. That was dispiriting! Either of these guys is a jillion times better than that duo.

25 Right now Gallup has a poll showing Romney and Gingrich performing identically against Obama in head to head match ups.  Both lose by two points. 

Link over at Legal Insurrection (he had to do a screen shot to grab the data).

26 Bullshit.

Tell it to the likes of Pawlenty or Perry who were being ignored out of preference for unelectable, unqualified Tea Party favorites like Cain and Bachmann.

Fine, the remaining candidates aren't my favorite either.  Here's a box of tissue.  Have your crying jag and then get back in the foxhole. 

27 I've never seen so many nervous nellies and pessimists in one place at one time.

Give me a reason to be optimistic and we'll talk.  Till then, I'll be out on the sidewalk with a cardboard sign that reads "The End Is Near".

28 Santorum is unacceptable to many because of his social views, or at least being outspoken about them. As for me, He just gives me the creeps.

29 5 You know what I needed this morning? A mental image of Newt taking it in the butt from a chick.

Posted by: lorien1973 at January 23, 2012 10:51 AM (0tkqC)

Might as well get it out now. The media is bound to reveal it for the general.

30 Gingrich = Reagan.  On paper (and in the newspapers) Reagan appeared to be an clown and a loser - a B-movie actor who worked with chimps, and then barnstormed the country as a paid mouthpiece for GE (kind of like Alec Baldwin, eh?).  He surrounded himself with people who looked like buffoons - anyone else remember how photogenic and "hip" Ed Meese was back in the day?  Most smart voters (well, okay, this smart voter) are convinced that if they like a candidate and what the candidate stands for, they should vote for him.  Attempts by others to denigrate him or his chances are no more likely to be sound than the voter's own gut instinct.

Me, I just be my lib b-i-l a thousand bucks that Newt will be our next President.  And I did it for the money.  The b-i-l has bucks and is not the kind of guy who will welch on the bet when the time comes for him to pay up.

31 17 My order of preference...

Romney
Santorum
Gingrich
Paul

----

Mine is Gingrich >> Romney > Santorum.

I will never vote for Crazy Uncle, not even in the general. 

32 Have your crying jag and then get back in the foxhole. Posted by: countrydoc at January 23, 2012 11:02 AM (QeC0U) Exactly. We have to fight the fight we have. Such is life.

33 the last election clearly showed that the tea party people are a force and all attempts by dems, establishment republicans and even ace to try to marginalize them not only haven't worked but have blown up in their faces.  This is what comes of trying to make them choose someone they don't want--you'll wind up with the less-than-perfect alternative.

34

Yeah. Get back in line or we'll vote for the democrat. That'll show ya.

35 I've never seen so many nervous nellies and pessimists in one place at one time. Give me a reason to be optimistic and we'll talk. Till then, I'll be out on the sidewalk with a cardboard sign that reads "The End Is Near". Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 23, 2012 11:03 AM (SY2Kh) How about I give you a bottle of aged scotch or a nice Italian wine and we talk about how much obama sucks?

36 If Coulter thinks she's helping Romney she's crazier than she sounds.

37 Tell it to the likes of Pawlenty or Perry who were being ignored out of preference for unelectable, unqualified Tea Party favorites like Cain and Bachmann.

Yeah, Pawlenty and Perry were totally electable if only anybody had voted for them.

38

18 The Tea Party did stop eliminating candidates based on weak-ass reasons, hunting for perfect fidelity. They (we) have accepted Gingrich, despite his lack of perfect fidelity (either in conservatism or marriage).

Bullshit.

Tell it to the likes of Pawlenty or Perry who were being ignored out of preference for unelectable, unqualified Tea Party favorites like Cain and Bachmann.

The Tea Party could've been something, but they embraced The Stupid almost every step of the way. At this point we'd be better off without them.
---------

This!

And let's not forget about all those Palin supporters who are still kicking dirt on all the candidates, because they're still clinging to the desperate hope that Palin will still get in. .....Or would rather see Barky win, so that Palin can run in 2016.

39 What are our chances for a brokered convention and a Barbour/Chaney ticket?

40 The "base" doesn't care about the middle or independent voters. The base doens't consider the general election. Nope. Posted by: whatever at January 23, 2012 10:55 AM (O7ksG) The Bob Dole wing of the GOP proved time and time again they have no grasp of electability. The Bob Dole wing of the GOP seems to be stuck on the idea that only boring and disconnected candidates can win independents. The Bob Dole wing of the GOP repeats the same action over and over again, expecting different results. The Bob Dole wing of the GOP then goes off to school the plebs about how irresponsibly stupid they are to reject the Bob Dole wing of the GOP anointed one.

41

I still don't understand the resistance to Romney.  He was, after all, the “Conservative alternative” to McCain in the 2008 primaries, and when winning the nomination was out of reach he sucked it up and got in line.  Now, all of a sudden, heÂ’s some wild-eyed liberal?

Whom do I trust more to be faithful to ideological Conservatism?  The Republican in Massachusetts who was moderate because he had to be, or the Republican from Georgia who was moderate because it garnered him attention and stroked his ego?  The guy who married his high school sweetheart and lived by the dictates and directives of his (socially conservative) religion his entire life, or the guy who converted to Catholicism in his 60s at the urging of his second home-wrecking mistress?  The guy liked least by the Republican colleagues who knew him best?  Gingrich is a disaster in the making and, if nominated, will lead to a slaughter of Republicans in the House.  All we need to do is put up a plausible candidate who can point to ObamaÂ’s poor performance and weÂ’d rather take the opportunity to give the media and “the Republican establishment” a middle finger? 

 

42 Ace (and Ann) couldn't be more wrong... "railing at "elites" in the media is an immediate feel-good catharsis which probably has nothing to do with the actual goal here". Exposing the current MSM a as the Communist-backing fraud that it is - is much MORE important than exposing Obama. In fact, if we expose the media, we accomplish getting rid of Obama. He can't survive without Pravda.

43 President Barack Obama says the 39th anniversary of Roe v. Wade is the chance to recognize the “fundamental constitutional right” to abortion and to “continue our efforts to ensure that our daughters have the same rights, freedoms, and opportunities as our sons to fulfill their dreams.” ??? Even the daughters that were aborted?

44

I agree completely and I've been in the same boat.

I'm sure everyone remembers me chucking molotovs at Romney (because it's fucking suicidal arrogance on the part of the 'it's his turn' folks).

But no one can really cite me tearing into anyone else. Despite the fact that I've never believed any of them save one of being remotely credible or even seriously running.

Ah well.

Romneybots could have fixed this problem as easily as the "true conservatives" could have, had they been willing to compromise and support ANYONE besides Romney. Perry had feet in both camps. He was establishment and he was tea party too. I thought we could compromise.

Oh well.

45 You know whose immigration policy didn't kill 3 Americans this weekend?
Newt's.

You know who didn't rack up $5 trillion in debt in 3 years in DC?
Newt.

Newt has his problems; but let's not pretend this election is anything but a referendum on the past 4 years.

46 the last election clearly showed that the tea party people are a force and all attempts by dems, establishment republicans and even ace to try to marginalize them not only haven't worked but have blown up in their faces.  This is what comes of trying to make them choose someone they don't want--you'll wind up with the less-than-perfect alternative.

The election has come down to three big-government republicans and a cranky old man.  The tea party movement marginalized itself.

47 When people say "Tea Party", are they talking about the folks who attend the meetings?

48 25 Right now Gallup has a poll showing Romney and Gingrich performing identically against Obama in head to head match ups. Both lose by two points. Posted by: Y-not, Newt leaner at January 23, 2012 11:01 AM (5H6zj) It won't matter to the Bob Dole wing of the GOP. They have decided McCain was THE electable, they've decided Romney is THE electable. It's not the polls, it's the boring. You see, non-boring candidates can't win against a charismatic, incumbent Democrat. That's their reasoning. Really.

49
25 Right now Gallup has a poll showing Romney and Gingrich performing identically against Obama in head to head match ups.  Both lose by two points. 

Posted by: Y-not, Newt leaner at January 23, 2012 11:01 AM (5H6zj)

Yeah, and a Rasmussen poll the same day had Romney and Obama tied and Newt losing  by 7.   The RCP polling average has Newt losing by 11 points. 

50 23...you can't be serious?  I'm not a Newt fan...not sure if I can even vote for him in the general.  But, he does generally and genuinely hold some conservative beliefs.  Mitt, not so much.

Newts problem is that his guiding principle is Newt.  IOW, he sees everything through the prism of his own greatness, not conservative core values.  So, if he thinks it, it must be correct and must be conservative by extension. 

We've seen that this is certainly not correct.  The Bain attacks were about as unconservative as you can be. 

51 When people say "Tea Party", are they talking about the folks who attend the meetings?

No, that's the new euphemism for "true conservative" or "purist".

52

>>>Newt has his problems; but let's not pretend this election is anything but a referendum on the past 4 years.

Let's not pretend that the media will let this be a referendum on the last four years. It will be about the Republican candidate.

Who will weather that better? Newt or Mitt?

53

I will never vote for Crazy Uncle, not even in the general.

Since he will NEVER win, thanks for tossing that in. Feels good.

I'll never vote for Sarah Palin, I'll never vote for Chris Christie, Mitch Daniels, whatever. I don't think anyone cares.

I'll never vote for Mitt Romney. But you know what? You probably care as much as I care about you not voting for Ron Paul.

Which is none.

I hope it was cathartic to shoot me in the foot for nothing but spite.

It doesn't matter who you won't vote for since both our choices are going to lose anyway. The fact that you're voting for a different loser than me is really pretty irrelevant.

54

Bob Dole was back when the GOP did the "next in line" thing. Now we do the "purity" thing.

55

Posted by: Alec Leamas at January 23, 2012 11:06 AM (mg08E)

No shit.

They're not looking at why they really don't like Romney. Jesus H Christ, Newt? Are you fucking kidding me? NEWT??? Did you miss the last time around for Newt? 

56 >>>Ace, why not take a second look at Santorum? You have to admit, he has potential to appeal to working class democrats. I might if the alternative is Gingrich. Still, look, no one's clambering for a Social Con First candidate, except the small minority who are. He entered the race as a niche candidate, a guy just there to remind people social conservatism and abortion can't be forgotten. That was his purpose. Seriously, this party has disqualifed two good governor candidates (pawlenty, perry) and one not so good one who at least has experience (huntsman) and is now disqualifing the last. I'm giving up. Conservatives are so angry they want to lose. Okay, lose.

57 Tardisil, anyone?

No, you pretty much went hacking for every candidate but Perry.

58 Hahaha. Oh man. You wanted that fucking hee-haw snot-eater from Texas. "Compromise." You funny mofo, acfe. The economy is improving, and you'll have Mittens as your man. Walk over to the kitchen drawer next to the sink, open it, grab the butcher knife, and cut your throat, ace. Naw, stick around for 4 years of your daily publication of Life in Jabocite Hell. Oh, what fun.

59

test

60

Can we all start fighting about who's loser is slightly less losey now?

I think we can.

61 Right now Gallup has a poll showing Romney and Gingrich performing identically against Obama in head to head match ups. Both lose by two points. Posted by: Y-not, Newt leaner at January 23, 2012 11:01 AM (5H6zj) Yeah, and a Rasmussen poll the same day had Romney and Obama tied and Newt losing by 7. The RCP polling average has Newt losing by 11 points. Posted by: Jon at January 23, 2012 11:09 AM (IFigw) Break that down electorally or it is meaningless -- I don't care how big Obama's margin is in California

62 BTW, I'll happily vote for Newt if he's the nominee. I will vote for a feces covered crack whore over Obama. Since this is the direction we are moving, the idea seems less and less extreme than when I first said it.

63 I still don't understand the resistance to Romney.  He was, after all, the “Conservative alternative” to McCain in the 2008 primaries

Since that time Masscare has been shown to be a disaster for Massachusetts, but he still will not disavow it.  Last time he ran on being an expert on health care, but now he's just a poor widdle former governor who was forced to implement Masscare... but who is nevertheless proud of it. 

He could have spent three years spending some of his hard-earned dough on funding studies of free market solutions to health care delivery and costs.  He could have started a private foundation and funded pilot programs or started a think-tank and conducted studies into it.  He could have taken time to write a few pages to flesh out what he means by "Replace" in his promise to "Repeal and Replace."  He's done none of those things.  He likes big government and likes to get along with Democrats. 

I don't want that. 

Newt has many flaws, but he is a combative contrarian.  When he gets in I think he'll take on the Democrats.  After a year or two he'll probably be just as statist as Romney will be, but at least we'll get a couple of victories out of him. 

64

At this point I hope we can hang on to the House. We are screwed. The "base" doesn't care about the middle or independent voters. The base doens't consider the general election. Nope.

Posted by: whatever at January 23, 2012 10:55 AM (O7ksG)

As a "base" voter, I can tell you that's pure crap.  I am ONLY thinking of the general election at this point.  I don't give a rat's ass who my candidate is because I don't like any of them and therefore don't have to be picky.  The only thing I care about is getting Obama out of the White House.  If that means I have to write in a dead stoat, whatever.  There is nothing more important than stopping Obama's tyranny.

65

The economy is improving

Hey, if you're going to live in fantasy land, I just would warn you away from the brown acid.

66

A lot of American voters want someone who feels they are answerable to God. Even if you were an atheist, this is a good deal because theoretically the candidate is more worried about his/her immortal soul than making a quick buck or pleasing John King.

However, if a supposedly religious candidate was pro-life and then switched to pro-choice for any reason, that's pretty much a deal-breaker. It shows the person's religion is window dressing. 

67 Juicer -

You know the truly sad thing about Bob Dole as a candidate?  The old Bob Dole was smart-assed, sarcastic and entertaining.  He would have had a chance in the general.  But Bob Dole decided to neuter himself and become bland and unappealing.  So he dropped his personality and ran on nothing.

I am willing to bet that somewhere, deep down, Mitt Romney has a personality.  Maybe it's dorky, maybe it's cerebral, who the hell knows?  But Mittens decided long ago to bottle it up and become a generic politician.  And you know what?  Nobody gets excited voting for a generic politician.  And, more importantly, the blank canvas gets painted on by the opposition.  In a general election match-up, Mitt will become (in the eyes of most voters) whatever SNL and Obama's campaign gurus decide to make him.  Newt fights back and paints his own picture.  That's how you win elections.

Oh, and Pawlenty and Perry - what pictures did they paint of themselves?  An anonymity and a bumbling GWB clone.  Don't matter if that's not who they were.  That's what they presented to the electorate.

68 Posted by: nevergiveup at January 23, 2012 11:00 AM (i6RpT)

Imagine the state of our country after another four years of the JEF. That should make you very, very nervous.

69 me three, dagny I leave room to be surprised by events. Again, am in a state where we have no effect on the R primary so. . . I really harp on this but, it's kind of important, the "executive experience" thing. A governor would really differentiate in the general

70

1. The whiny establishment sure gives up on Romney winning without fighting much.

2. If the establishment wants to compromise, why is it supporting a guy who might as well be a moderate Democrat? Looks like the establishment is more interested in compromising with liberals than with the Tea Party.

3. This blackmail crap isn't going to work either. The "Come to your senses, we are going to lose everything, the House, etc." isn't going to fly. We have ALREADY lost everything. The tipping point was passed several years ago.   

71 Who will weather that better? Newt or Mitt?

Neither. I think Mitt is better at the margin in terms of not energizing the left and being generally inoffensive to squishes. On the other hand, Gingrich is more deft at parrying criticism and turning it back. In my mind, it's a wash, really.

If Mittens were winning, we'd all be complaining about how the Obamamedia machine is going to tear him up as an out-of-touch moneybags tax underpayer from a goofy cult who likes to fire people. Instead, we get to complain about how Gingrich is a grumpy old fart who is to feckless and reckless to appeal to the middle.

Like I said, a wash.

72 I can't figure out why people think Newty is more conservative than Mitt? Where did you get that? This is baffling me, it's like "Obama is a good speaker" or "Sarah Jessica Parker is hot and should have a TV show". WTF?

One could argue that Newt has a more conservative record in office, but mostly it's the American Idol factor combined with frustration over Romney.

73 "Personally, I think of this as Cheap Date Conservatism, if we don't bother to check if Gingrich is really promising anything "fundamentally transformative" in substance, and instead focus on the soundbite or taunt which has an emotional payoff but doesn't actually advance anything in terms of persuading independents or making promises to the conservative base."

That's also funny.

Chris Christie, Rubio, and Giuliani, among other superficial flames, come to mind.

74

Ace

From what I can tell, the Romney hatred is so severe that it's causing delusions. They think Newt is a good thing, a better nominee. The left must have put out some new Koolaid where they think Newt is a better choice than Romney. Apparently they missed the newty as speaker series.

75 Imagine the state of our country after another four years of the JEF. That should make you very, very nervous. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJconservative) at January 23, 2012 11:13 AM (nEUpB) It does, but I am not going to waste my time running around yelling the sky is falling just yet.

76 Wow. That Breaking Dawn Twilight shit has made over 700 mil in box ofices sales. They havenn't even released the dvd yet. Vampires -- it never gets old. If Ace was smart he would create a AoSVampireHQ. Feature some prettyboy morons, aim for the tweener age group, and walk away with a boat load of cash.

77 >>I hope it was cathartic to shoot me in the foot for nothing but spite.

You may find this hard to believe, but I don't track who supports whom.  My comment was not directed at you or anyone, merely a statement of fact on where my line in party loyalty is. 

78 After a year or two he'll probably be just as statist as Romney will be, but at least we'll get a couple of victories out of him. I hold out a glimmer of hope, that Newt would go for the historic ring, reverse Wilsonian progressive measures (the Grasmcian rot) in dramitc flourishes. If, and only if, he has a conservative Congress and pliant Senate. If he has to compromise -- he will, just like Romney. Of course Romney will enjoy it more.

79 Seriously, this party has disqualifed two good governor candidates (pawlenty, perry) and one not so good one who at least has experience (huntsman) and is now disqualifing the last. The party didn't disqualify them. They went on national television and made themselves look like asses. They really didn't need any outside help. Also, All three voluntarily dropped out. None of them had a Cain situation that forced them out or anything.

80 quick question: Is Obama capable of an effective Charm Offensive? - If he is, then I'd go with Romney - because Newt is going to be a catalyst for pointing out that Obama's ideas are both bankrupt and bankrupting. If Obama can't be effective defending his policies and practices - and if his personal charisma doesn't count for anything - then I think Newt is electable. If for no other reason that Newt is, if nothing else, able to hang in a rhetorical firefight.

81 Pawlenty disqualified himself, dropping out bc of a rinky-dink straw poll and while still ahead of other hanger-ons in the polls.

82

I'm glad to see it is the Tea Party responsible for the downfall of the Republic. One eyar ago we were getting better press after WE caused the GOP to retake the House.

I'm also an Evangelical Christian. Are we next on the hit list if Mittens isn't crowned the nominee?

83 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable tyrant.

84 How about I give you a bottle of aged scotch or a nice Italian wine and we talk about how much obama sucks?

We're going to need more than one bottle if it's going to last us 4 years.

85

Imagine the state of our country after another four years of the JEF. That should make you very, very nervous.

As I said during the SC coverage on Saturday...the only thing standing between us and the lefty generational abyss would be Antonin Scalia's Lipitor prescription.  I don't want to be there.

86 >>>Pawlenty disqualified himself the party had nothing to do with it? Oh he has no charisma, he's not a fighter. He once suggested a pilot program to test global warming reduction methods which he then canceled before it ever began. one fucking stupid shit reason after another.

87

I'm also an Evangelical Christian. Are we next on the hit list if Mittens isn't crowned the nominee?

Posted by: Dick Nixon at January 23, 2012 11:16 AM (kaOJx)

Yes.  You'd better prepare the body armor because of all the flack you'll end up taking.  I've got mine on backorder, but I'm not Evangelical.  I figure I'll just be collateral damage.

88 You know the truly sad thing about Bob Dole as a candidate?  The old Bob Dole was smart-assed, sarcastic and entertaining.  He would have had a chance in the general.

Yeah, I confess that was my take on him.  He was also really specific whenever he talked policy.  He was a nuts and bolts guy. 

I actually worked for his campaign. 

89

I'm also an Evangelical Christian. Are we next on the hit list if Mittens isn't crowned the nominee?

Only if you're one of the retards who think Mormonism is cultish and evil and needs to be eradicated because your bible church says so in it's most recent board vote.

90 Second look at Gary Johnson?

91 meanwhile, fucking ignramuses like Cain and Bachmann soar to the top of the polls because they're either 'charming" or "fighters." Guys with experience? guys with the job (governor) usually considered president-making? nah, we want to prove you don't need experience to be president. It's stupid.

92 its

93

I told the Tea Party to stop eliminating candidates based on weak-ass reasons...

And what might those be? A return to constitutional principles, a strong national defense/security, a strong anti-illegal alien policy, a balanced budget, no more bailouts or "stimulus", lower taxes, and less government?

Those weak assed reasons? I'd like to say that at least ONE Republican candidate stands for all those, but sadly, I can't. Looks like we'll be stuck with whomever they nominate.

94 The election has come down to three big-government republicans and a cranky old man. The tea party movement marginalized itself.

It is more accurate to say that the establishment marginalized the tea party, and the tea party marginalized the establishment.

Now they're both pretty much fucked.

But don't blaim the Tea Party. If Romney wasn't in this race, theres no way in hell we'd be running to Gingrich to avoid him. If establishment types and connected types had ran a fair competition, instead of wheeling and dealing to line up Romney, this wouldn't have happened.

Where was Mitch Daniels? Where was any of them? Endorsing Romney the annointed, that's where. Their 'pre-choice' sucked ass.

It's bleedingly obvious, or else it should be, why Romney cannot win. Not that Gingrich has a better shot, but Mr. Electability was all fizzle no steak, and empty suit with a lot of GOP hype from the start. And a Massachusetts moderate. And the guy who's turn it was, the guy with the money money money that impresses the loyal Republican party-functionary types.

95 >>>You know the truly sad thing about Bob Dole as a candidate? The old Bob Dole was smart-assed, sarcastic and entertaining. He would have had a chance in the general. nope. facts not arguments are the keys in an election. the economy was growing then, just as it was growing in 84 when Reagan triumphed. arguments help marginally. it's mostly facts.

96 Newt supporters are emotional retards.  I get it. 

But it seems to me that Romney supporters are cowards.  Their entire argument for the guy is based on fear. 

Keep insulting us and I'm sure eventually we'll acquiesce. 

97

Not following the hand-wringing. Certain people decided not to run; certain others got in and then got out in a hurry. Thems that remain are slugging it out, with no clear winner after only three states vote. Big Whoop.

98 the party had nothing to do with it? Oh he has no charisma, he's not a fighter. He once suggested a pilot program to test global warming reduction methods which he then canceled before it ever began.

one fucking stupid shit reason after another.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 11:18 AM (nj1bB)

Ace, Pawlenty dropped out of the race of his own accord back before any polls could be taken with more than a grain of salt and an eye to improving campaign platforms.  Santorum was an absolute nobody for a long time, and now he's scooting up in the polls.  If Pawlenty had stuck with it, I have no doubt he'd be doing the same, if not better.  But he caved.

The party didn't give up on Pawlenty.  Pawlenty gave up on himself.

99 Oh, and Pawlenty and Perry - what pictures did they paint of themselves? An anonymity and a bumbling GWB clone. Don't matter if that's not who they were. That's what they presented to the electorate. Posted by: Z as in Jersey at January 23, 2012 11:13 AM (jF5A4) I kinda liked Perry. Didn't strike me as a Bush clone per-se. Besides the illegal tuition thing, he was truly the best candidate on paper. But he arrived to the scene unprepared, out of his depth and generally stupid, and he flamed out. He deserved to flame out. And now ace takes it out on the Tea Party because they didn't stick his toy-boy as they should have, and instead chose Gingrich. ace is a vindictive, self absorbed son of a bitch.

100 Ah. Life in Knucklehead Land. Where Rick Perry is smart.

101

A taste of what the left will throw at Noot.

 

102 >>The 'angry white men' argument usually presented by the MSM. Right here.

Well, we're also being treated to the 'conservative women aren't real women' argument.  So that's something. 

103 Exposing the current MSM a as the Communist-backing fraud that it is - is much MORE important than exposing Obama.

In fact, if we expose the media, we accomplish getting rid of Obama. He can't survive without Pravda.

It's stupidity like this that's going to hand Obama another term. Beating the Big Bad MSM (who, by the way, loves them some Newt) is what really matters. SCOTUS appointments? Repealing Obamacare? Spending cuts? Nah- trifles really.

I don't remember seeing "MSM" on the fucking ballot, dummy. But you go ahead and write them in so you can feel good about not voting for them.

104 Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 11:19 AM (nj1bB)

And just think what would happen if we had real closed primaries that weren't flooded by Democrats and stoners and independents who were bored.

Our republic is messy, and sometimes it does the wrong thing. Like now.

105 correction: stick *to*

106 CAIRO - Egypt's Islamist-led parliament voted to appoint a top politician in the Muslim Brotherhood as the new assembly's speaker, the Brotherhood said on its website, a choice that would have been unthinkable when Hosni Mubarak was in power. Mohamed Saad el-Katatni, secretary-general of the Brotherhood's Freedom and Justice Party, was appointed speaker in a vote during the parliament's first session on Monday, following a raucous debate about whether candidates for the post should be allowed to address the chamber beforehand. And another foreign policy victory for the obama boys

107 Pawlenty would have been the front runner if he stayed in.

108 I'll preface this by saying I'm a Florida voter that is still undecided but... I missed the part where Pawlenty was chased from the field. He gave up after one test when he was polling much higher than Newt. If that's all it took to have him quit I'm not really sure he wanted it bad enough. Also missed the part where the "purists" or whatever tricked Perry into looking like a f-ing moron at debates. And since he was the great last hope I'm curious as to why you chose to ignore him endorsing Newt. Also Perry could have been mr perfect and he'd still be a stupid choice to run against a guy in the general who is still running against another Gov. from Texas. "Bush-fatigue," google it. So democracy has happend and you don't like the results. Whatever, grow the hell up. Romney is probably my pick too but this pissing and moaning about Newt is retarded. He's a smart guy that's played the power politics game on the big stage before, it's not exactly inconceivable he'd be in the end game here.

109 Sorry, that may have been a little harsh but I had an evangelical at work tell me that Mitt would be nominated so that the evils of the Mormon Cult could be revealed.

110 He was, after all, the “Conservative alternative” to McCain in the 2008 primaries, and when winning the nomination was out of reach he sucked it up and got in line.  Now, all of a sudden, heÂ’s some wild-eyed liberal?

I don't know how many times we have to go over this particular argument, but here we go again:

1) Mitt still is more conservative than John McCain.
2) No one in the Republican party, at that time (or very few) understood how much of a campaign issue Health Care was going to be- or exactly how bad (in practice) MassCare would wind up.

Given those two things- yes, Mittens is the most liberal candidate in the race right now.

I would rather that Rick Perry still be in the race.  I would rather that Newt had gotten out and thrown his support to Perry (rather than the other way 'round).  That didn't happen.  So, based on their records of accomplishment, I think Newt is more conservative (which is still squishy, compared to what I want) than Mitt 'RINO' Romney.

111 arguments help marginally. it's mostly facts.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 11:20 AM (nj1bB)

Then we have nothing to worry about!

Gas will be expensive this summer.

Unemployment may be marginally better, but nowhere near where it needs to be.

Europe will be in slow, agonizing free-fall.

Iran will be closer to a nuclear device.

All of these are facts that should guarantee a Republican victory, yet we are all very, very afraid.

Why?

112

dagny at January 23, 2012 11:19 AM

Nope. I could give a shit about Mittens church going habits, as long as he not trying to convert me (that applies for Catholics, Methodists, and Luthers or any other demoniation.)

But I also see Evanglicals getting the blame if Romney flames out because he stuttered like a jackhammer on releasing his tax returns, which he agreed to do in April. Then he flipped and said he would do it tomorrow.

Then again, I watched supposed Conservatives shit on my guy Perry over the heartless comment. Never mind Perry faced the same situation in texas as Romney did on healthcare. Yet Perry was crucified.

MItt is a big boy. It's just politics as the Romneybots told me at the time.

113 BTW, I'll happily vote for Newt if he's the nominee. I will vote for a feces covered crack whore over Obama. Since this is the direction we are moving, the idea seems less and less extreme than when I first said it.

Posted by: dagny at January 23, 2012 11:12 AM (w+PM

She'd be a lot less dangerous to the country than Barry is

114

I'm also an Evangelical Christian. Are we next on the hit list if Mittens isn't crowned the nominee?

Only if you're one of the retards who think Mormonism is cultish and evil and needs to be eradicated because your bible church says so in it's most recent board vote.

Yes, yes you are next.

Maybe, maybe not next, but you will get your turn.

We ain't taking no prisoners. Seriously, watch what happens when/if Newt  wins Florida.

Fucking Republigeddon. People will forget we even have democrats.

115 TOO LATE NOW.

I will not vote for Romney - and many will not- in a primary and I'm no "purity" person.

What's with the "purity" thing. "pure" my dear aunt Sally.    Support of Newt is the opposite of "purity" just as Newt is the freaking opposite of Christine O' Donnell.   (Now that's a cheap date.)

Simmer down and start reflecting on why Newt really succeeds.   He's  succeeding in spite of baggage - with people who KNOW his baggage.  It's not only the entertaining smackdowns at work.  It's that intangible you missed with Perry,  the Perry KILLER.  

That is intellect,  ferocious intellect ferociously in service of ideas that matter.  He might be acting out of interest.  A hired gun,  ambulance chaser  for the plaintiff/ defendant liberty. 

Here's an electability clue:   Even Obama has lacked fire these three odd years.  He's "aloof" is the nice description.  Really he's lazy and couldn't give a rat's ass,  and just takes certain points of view for granted because he really doesn't know anything else.    Whose course is more entertaining as well as more enriching and useful?   Two professors,  one drones and bores and lectures -  the other ignites the class with some enthusiams and spirit backwards and forwards foundational principles - war stories even but somehow the student feels himself in the trenches,  learning, winning, surviving.    In a war of ideas I know who can win.

 I think you got called out on the "day to day running" "making government work"  protestations.   What was that guys name - Burke I think -   Gingrich can make things work. He HAS made things work.  He knows HOW they work and how they can go wrong.    Discounting his experience, even the failure parts,  is a mistake.

116 And if Pawlenty wanted to be President he would have stayed in and proved the naysayers wrong. He's too weak-willed to be President. Perseverance in the face of opposition is a great quality for anyone, too bad Pawlenty didn't have it.

117 "it's mostly facts." Fuck you. Over & over you've always said you don't care about facts. You just have a team with uniforms and a shifting notion of the enemy. Nothing matters to you. Nothing.

118 test

119 ace is a vindictive, self absorbed son of a bitch.

Posted by: Juicer at January 23, 2012 11:22 AM (84c8s)

"Roid Rage is an ugly thing.

120 Yeah, well, it would have been nice if even one of the truly presidential Republicans would have chosen to run!  Instead they all ran for cover with their various excuses of why they couldn't help the country and the people they claim to love!  Christie, Daniels, Ryan, Jeb Bush, Rubio- what the hell- it's your fault we are stuck with the group we have because none of you had the guts to stand up for your country.

121 Ace -

Pawlenty wasn't disqualified - he quit!  Hell, at least Palin gave a plausible reason for quitting.  Governor Tim didn't wait for a single goddamn vote.  Americans want a fighter - think how many politicians talk about how they will fight for this, that or the other policy or group.  Pawlenty gave up without a fight.  Bachmann and Cain at least put up a fight, and I think that is why they got a moment in the sun.  Newt is putting up a ferocious fight.  Mitt appears to be pouting.  If he (finally) learns some lessons and comes out scrapping on his own behalf, he has a shot at the nomination.  If he continues basing his campaign on being a businessman who has been married to the same woman for a long time, well, I am also a businessman who has been married to the same woman for a long time.  Next!

- Z

122 A quote I thought I'd pass along:

"If you're criticizing Mitt, Newt, and Rick more than Obama, you're doing it wrong."

Sorry, can't remember who to accredit.

123 Pawlenty punted because the fundraising wasn't there, this is Gingrich's problem now.

124 I was never a Newt Fan, but he does fight and he's been calling a spade a spade (raaaaacist!?!?!?!) and he isn't worried about being 'liked.' The dems are nasty, dirty and law-breaking fighters. Newt just hits right back at them. We are living in extreme times here and I am warming to Newt's willingness to use his brass knuckles. Like it or not, the dems are vicious and it's about time the repubs presented a presidential candidate with the testicular fortitude to stand up to them.

125 so the movement was kicked to the curb or thrown under the bus, whichever analogy you'd prefer.

Kicked to the curb and then the bus ran up on the sidewalk?

126 "93 meanwhile, fucking ignramuses like Cain and Bachmann soar to the top of the polls because they're either 'charming" or "fighters." Guys with experience? guys with the job (governor) usually considered president-making? nah, we want to prove you don't need experience to be president. It's stupid. Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 11:19 AM (nj1bB)" I seem to remember another dumbass soaring to the top of the polls for about the same length of time too, oh wait that was Ricky Perry, super-genius of Texas, last hope of the republic.

127 nope. facts not arguments are the keys in an election. the economy was growing then, just as it was growing in 84 when Reagan triumphed.

arguments help marginally. it's mostly facts.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 11:20 AM (nj1bB)

The only way facts can make any impact is through the use of a clear argument, ace.  I can stand in front of a lecture hall and spout a long list of dates of historical battles and names of important military victories and expect my students to learn them because I say they're important.  But if I don't tell my students why it's important for them to know about Alexander's victory at the Battle of Issus, they're not going to care.  it'll go in one ear and out the other. 

The facts are what fuel the arguments, and it's the candidate who can make the best argument in favor of his or her reading of the facts who wins the election. 

128 127 Pawlenty punted because the fundraising wasn't there, this is Gingrich's problem now.

I think it depends how hard Palin and Perry work for him.  He also might grab Forbes. 

129 I can't figure out why people think Newty is more conservative than Mitt? Where did you get that? This is baffling me, it's like "Obama is a good speaker" or "Sarah Jessica Parker is hot and should have a TV show". WTF?

Just for the record:

Obama is president, and SJP had a hugely successful TV show.

130 Ace wants more people unemployed, higher gas prices, deep recession...maybe a terrorist attack--fuck, that'd be great! You want to destroy the country to "win."

131

Most Republicans haven't gotten to vote yet, so blaming them seems premature. It's the nominating process that has a problem,  not the voters. The nominating process which is run by the establishment.

I wanted Perry too. He sucked and blew it. I never got a chance to vote for him.

Now it's all my fault.

Terrific.

132 Golda Meier once said there would be no piece until the Palestinians decided they loved their children more than they hated Israel.

Seems to me we are now in just such a situation.  People hate the media and the elitists more than they love their country.

It is an understandable reaction from Tea Party people who have been insulted and demonized and not defended for over 2 years,  by people who foolishly thought they could discount their concerns.  (And there is a special place for Georgette Mosbacher in this group,  who alienated me from Romney at te very beginning due to her smug attitude.  Also Brad Blakeman, who was very ungracious when Perry withdrew.)

On the other hand,  Tea Party people have not used their power as responsibly as they could have.  Palin is throwing bombs into the primary process.  Cain has teamed up with a comedian for TV time.  The only one who ended up withdrawing with dignity was Bachmann.  (Huntsman did too, but he wasn't Tea Party associated.)

If we are going to beat Obama,  this division has to be ended quickly.  Beltway types are going to have to swallow some pride and admit they were wrong.  Tea Party people are going to have to show some forgiveness.

Otherwise we are heading for disaster,  in which case I am joining Team Meteor.

133

I wanted Perry too but I can't get past Newt's "Right wing engineering" comment, the Pelosi global warming thing, the individual mandate thing, the flip flopping, the arrogance, the multi-marriages (Oh, and they haven't even released the "Newt blowjob in the car" stories, and the fact that he is a complete loose cannon. He is no conservative.

Also, I've seen him in person and he is one super UGLY pockmarked dude. The left will take full advantage of that.

134 I don't know what the hell you people are talking about. I've never felt more optimistic about this election since Ginchrich's stomping of Romney in SC. Onward I say!

135 I, for one, am terrified if Newt gets to be the nominee. I'm not even sure I can vote in the general if that happens. This is devastating to me.

136 Does anyone have a non-Paulian reference to the meme that Newt can't compete for 564 delegates because he isn't on the ballot in some manner?

137 Hell you've got a Speaker of the House who hasn't the balls to tell Eric Holder to resign ... And you want to send Mitt Romney up there to help the establishment? Newt ain't perfect - but he WILL kick establishment ass. And that is why Sarah Palin is coming out to bat for him.

138

"SJP had a hugely successful TV show"

She was the homeliest of 4 women whose goal in life was the most one night stands. Hell you could plug any 4 somewhat attractive actresses with decent writing into that situation at the time and get decent ratings.

139 meanwhile, fucking ignramuses like Cain and Bachmann soar to the top of the polls because they're either 'charming" or "fighters."

Where I come from, this is referred to as a 'big flaming hint'.

It got ignored, and now we have the Impenetrable Inevitable Mitt, and Dr. Newton Jekyll-Hyde.

Looks like a tag-team failure to me, Ace.

140 OT/ Report on FNC: Iran to "definitely" close the Straits of Hormuz over EU oil embargo.

Hopefully just talk, but you may want to fill up your gas tank.

141 122 test

Posted by: bernverdnardo at January 23, 2012 11:27 AM (xXhWA)

Please don't f-around with HTML, it screws up the blog. Thank you for your cooperation. (And yes, I know he wasn't messing with his Name field)

142 Oh damn it- That's what I want to do to Romney. Just spank! the tar outta him!

143 Well, Jesus Christ, what the hell are we supposed to do? I was Perry-supported him financially against the odds--all the way and still angry that a good, decent man with The Track Record we need was run off. I'm still angry that now I have to choose between Romney and Gingrich and I'm doing mental acrobatic justifications that are worthy of the Chinese to try and get my mind around one of these two. This must be what it's like for an abused wife to try and convince herself that "this time, he really means it when he says he's sorry & it'll never happen again"...yeah, I feel like that. But WTF? Now it's equally MY fault for Gingrich?How else was the Tea Party supposed to react with having the GOP's anointed one shoved down our throats? And telling us to shut up & like it coz this stuff is above my pay grade. But this time, the Elite really means it when they say they're sorry about McCain and it'll never happen again...god**mn it! You know what? If the GOP & DC are so god**mn smart, they can figure this out because I give up. Here's my towel. I'm just freakin' done.

144 damn, i don't want to have to look at calista for four years, the current specimen is enough

145

Europe will be in slow, agonizing free-fall.

Iran will be closer to a nuclear device.

All of these are facts that should guarantee a Republican victory, yet we are all very, very afraid.

Why?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJconservative) at January 23, 2012 11:26 AM (nEUpB)

Because when you are betting on the wold economy going off the cliff to be able to sell the Newt to Americans you have a very fucked candidate.

Most of us wake up every morning to do what we can to minimize all the disasters you listed and you are betting (hoping) we fail.

146 ace, will you vote for Newt if he is the nominee? I hate Mitt, but will vote for him in November.

147

" This is devastating to me."

List 3 things a President Gingrich would do, that he has stated he would do if elected, that will adversely impact your life.

148 134Ace wants more people unemployed, higher gas prices, deep recession...maybe a terrorist attack--fuck, that'd be great!

You want to destroy the country to "win."   No.  Economic DOOM is guaranteed at this current course, so we'd like to acknowledge that sooner rather than later.  I don't see how terrorism helps our cause, I'd actually give Bam a B+ on that subject.

149 Newt suggested we put to death anyone who brought 2 oz of pot across the border. Yeah - that will get the indendent voters on board. One of Newt's big ideas.

150 OT/ Report on FNC: Iran to "definitely" close the Straits of Hormuz over EU oil embargo.

Popcorn.  Because I would really liek to see them try.

151 boy, that last post sure had a lot of words...this one is more like it.

152 Romney supporters / Tea Party haters on this blog seem to believe that they can make the tea partiers see the error of their ways by continuously insulting them, constantly, and calling them stupid, weak ass, uncooperative, etc.   I mean, if you  keep calling someone a stupid, interefering hick it's going to motivate them to get with Mitt, right?  Or is the idea that you can motivate the Tea Partiers to get out of politics altogother, thus clearing the decks for those desirable Independents, Moderate Democrats and Liberal Republicans to rush to the polls to vote for Mitt?

Almost sounds like a plan made in Chicago by Chicagoans, if you know what I mean.

By the way, according to Rasmussen more independents voted for Newt than for Romney in the  South Carolina primary.  Also more "strong conservatives" told Gallup that they would vote for the GOP candidate in the national election regardless of who it was, than did Moderate GOP'ers  when confronted with having to vote for a non "moderate" candidate.  So who is unappealing and intransigent, eh?

153 150 Of course he will. Ace isn't completely stupid.

154 I'm not messing with HTML, for some reason my text and background defaults to black.

155 Dagny -  You are posting on AOSHQ.  And you have a problem with a guy getting blowjobs in a car????? - Z

156 Where I come from, this is referred to as a 'big flaming hint'.

So you're calling Cain, Bachman, and Perry "Two boats and a helicopter?"

157 The TEA Party and so-con wings of conservatism have polled with a BIG overlap. Well over 40% of the GOP voters (the people who actually cast a ballot, not theoretical people) are conservative, socially and fiscally. No amount of denial is goin g to erase that, and those people ultimately answer to a God who holds them accountable for eternity, not a human with human standards. The abandonment of core moral principles for the exigencies of the moment (every four years) is, by definition, pragmatism, which, by definition, is the abandonment of principle. If enough people follow that practice, we get people like Juan Amnesty McVain, and then The Man With the Magic Undies. That shit-sandwich range of choices we end up with stops when the electorate gets the principles to just say no to ALL commie-libs, on the Left and the Right.

158 damn, i don't want to have to look at calista for four years, the current specimen is enough I think Callista is makeover-able. She can look more human. Newt, not so much.

159 111 Pawlenty would have been the front runner if he stayed in.

Posted by: Serious Cat at January 23, 2012 11:24 AM (2YIVk)

No.  I just don't think he had any political skills and he had no charisma.

Newt is in it because he has that sort of Pit Bull charisma.

Mitt is the big-money frontrunner.

Santorum got lucky in Iowa, having escaped scrutiny and courted evangelicals (the Huckabee strategy).

Ron Paul won't leave the stage without a hook.

Pawlenty would have gone the way of Perry.

Look, to win a primary you have to win.  This is not a tautology.  You have to have the political skills to do so.

I was a Perry guy, but I think the best of the crowd is Romney.  However, if he doesn't have the political skills to actually win this primary, I think his "prevent defense" general election strategy is doomed to fail as well.

160 Christie, Daniels, Ryan, Jeb Bush, Rubio- what the hell- it's your fault we are stuck with the group we have because none of you had the guts to stand up for your country.

Posted by: Timwi at January 23, 2012 11:27 AM (QKlu9)

Not true.  Before anybody had declared their intention to run, a LOT of Tea Party and conservative types were asking many of those very people to run.  But at the same time, other Tea Party and conservative types (and "establishment" GOP types) were saying, "No, they shouldn't.  They have no Executive experience.  They're neophytes to Washington politics.  Obama had no Exec experience either, and look what happened when we elected him?  We need someone established." 

What about Jeb Bush?  "He's a Bush.  Bush fatigue."

What about Daniels?  "He's a boring milquetoast.  He can't possibly overcome Obama's charisma."

I agree we'd be much better off if a West or Ryan had run for the candidacy, but I'm not going to blame them for not running.

161 OT/ Report on FNC: Iran to "definitely" close the Straits of Hormuz over EU oil embargo. Popcorn. Because I would really liek to see them try. Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at January 23, 2012 11:36 AM (B+qrE) And how would a limited air war this summer effect the election in November?

162 Being "the conservative alternative" to McCain is a very low bar.

163 Ace, the electability argument rings somewhat hollow given the fact that you supported Perry to the end even though all the polling and evidence indicated that he was far less electable than Romney as well.

164 #47: When people say "Tea Party", are they talking about the folks who attend the meetings?

The TP is a state of mind, and it hasn't gone away or been marginalized.

165 Ahhhh soon I will hear the glorious news of Ron Paul going bye bye.

166 Posted by: robtr at January 23, 2012 11:34 AM (MtwBb)

You completely missed the point of my comment.

Go have a cup of coffee and then try again.

167 151 - the man is completely volatile, you don't know what you're going to get -- not by a long shot. I don't like his personality - nasty, vicious. and I basically want to vomit every time I see his face. This would be a huge mistake to elect this guy.

168 Also, the fact that you ignore Santorum based on his social issues vibe is somewhat offensive. He is not a single issue candidate by any means.

169 Newt has many flaws, but he is a combative contrarian.  When he gets in I think he'll take on the Democrats.  After a year or two he'll probably be just as statist as Romney will be, but at least we'll get a couple of victories out of him. 

Posted by: Y-not, Newt leaner at January 23, 2012 11:13 AM (5H6zj)

Except Newt was for the individual mandate - on a Federal level - before he was against it.  And yet you still prefer Newt to the Governor who gave deep blue Massachusetts - and only Massachusetts - that which it desperately longed for on the basis of their respective stands on health care reform.

170 >>>But WTF? Now it's equally MY fault for Gingrich?How else was the Tea Party supposed to react with having the GOP's anointed one shoved down our throats? I'll tell you how it's supposed to act. It's supposed to act like it's a responsible majority in the party, now -- which it is. What the Tea Party says, goes. It's supposed to act like it's not casting Protest votes anymore. It's supposed to act like it understands it is now in a position of solemn responsbility-- responsibility it sought, and now possesses. If the tea party wants people to take it seriously as a movement with sound tactical instincts, it can start making some sound tactical decisions. It has to get over the Permanent Protest. It WON. It is now the driving force in the Republican party. it is time to stop behaving as if it's just there to make noise. It's not there to make noise any longer. it's there to make DECISIONS.

171

Newt is the....."I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"-Guy.

I wanted Perry. He was that guy too. But he's not in anymore. ......So I'm trending towards Newt, because Romney is too milquetoast, too babbity and his speeches put me to sleep. .....Besides, Romney will be like giving Gordon Gekko to the Dims to run against.

172 I'm so happy ...

173 150 Of course he will. Ace isn't completely stupid. Posted by: dagny at January 23, 2012 11:36 AM (w+PM It's early and he is Moron.

174

" And you have a problem with a guy getting blowjobs in a car?????"

The only problem I have is it doesn't happen to me very often.

175 Rand Paul and TSA in constitutional showdown


Article I, Section. 6.

Clause 1: The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. (See Note 6) They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, beprivileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.

176 Most Republicans haven't gotten to vote yet, so blaming them seems premature. It's the nominating process that has a problem, not the voters. The nominating process which is run by the establishment. This. Don't get pissed at me for voting for someone you don't like next week when your boy isn't even on the ballot.

177 Christie, Daniels, Ryan, Jeb Bush, Rubio- what the hell- it's your fault we are stuck with the group we have because none of you had the guts to stand up for your country.
Posted by: Timwi at January 23, 2012 11:27 AM

Every "presidential" non-candidate you mention has plenty of reasons to stay out, many of which would have been brought out in the beauty contest atmosphere ("oh, look! The Newt has bigger boobehs! I like teh boobehs this week!") being put on by the dying Republican party.

Whether lack of experience (Rubio), RINO-ish behavior (Christie) or the simple fact that the country wouldn't be well-served by yet another Bush (Jeb), each is well worth bypassing, at least until those people get their personal houses in order.

There is only one imperative this year, and that's getting rid of the stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure. If that means taking the poison in smaller doses -- which, IMO, means choosing The Mutt or The Newt -- then so be it.

The chronic unwillingness of the Republican Insiders and their lapdogs to oppose evil in an open, honest way -- instead, they give us more worthless hacks -- has put us in that position. That's why the party is about to join the Whigs on the ash-heap of history.

178 174 good point ...

179

And how would a limited air war this summer effect the election in November?

Don't care.  This is a 33-year-old score that needs settling.

Those Boston whalers-ish things make the prettiest pattern when a JDAM hits them.  Ask the Iraqis.  For that matter, ask the Iranians circa 1988.

180 Hell you've got a Speaker of the House who hasn't the balls to tell Eric Holder to resign ... And you want to send Mitt Romney up there to help the establishment? Newt ain't perfect - but he WILL kick establishment ass. And that is why Sarah Palin is coming out to bat for him.

Newt is the "establishment".  If a former Speaker of the House and "consultant" for Fannie Freddie isn't "establishment", then no one is.  And he's not kicking anyone's ass without getting elected, which he won't be.

Palin only gave a qualified endorsed Newt in SC for the same reason the MSM did- they want maximum drama and for the race to drag out as long as possible.  Once the race is effectively over, there's little reason for Palin's banal, vapid "analysis" on Fox.

181 Time for the Ronulans to call it a day ...

182 So you're calling Cain, Bachman, and Perry "Two boats and a helicopter?"

No, but but they were a huge sign saying "They want a strong voice to advocate for reform, blockheads".  In very large font, well lit, on every intersection.

Instead the response was "No, we don't have to project ourselves as staunch advocates for sane policy!  We can just cast ourselves as guardians of the status quo!"

No wonder it's the Grand Canyon between.

183 It's has to stop being reactionary. What's this bullshit about a candidate being forced down your throats? By whom? The minority of the party? The establishment which is pretty small and which you have demonstrated you have no respect for and who you will defy at every turn? How did they force anything down you're throats? You are the MAJORITY. in the party, at least for certain in the primary electorate of the party. Get out of the We're Just Here to Make Trouble mode. You're now in the We're Here to Make POLICY mode. You're in the We're Here to Make Decisions about the Future Nominee Now.

184

Damn Rand Paul for making me cheer for him.

The TSA is an evil joke.

185 History: The Establishment wanted Romney in 2008. The MFM sold nervous primary voters on the notion that McCain was a better "not Bush". The Establishment wants Romney again in 2012 and they may have helped the MFM convince nervous primary voters that Perry would be seen as only a more bumbling Dubya --Dubya did WIN 2 elections btw. I find myself wishing for a meteor to hit the debate hall so that we have to start over. The MFM and DNC have strategies to attack any of these 4 candidates we have left which will probably resonate with voters.

186 >>>Also, the fact that you ignore Santorum based on his social issues vibe is somewhat offensive. Then you're easily fucking offended and maybe you need to grow the fuck up some.

187 It's supposed to act like it's a responsible majority in the party, now -- which it is. What the Tea Party says, goes.

...really?

You could have fooled me.

188 Had an interesting conversation with my ex-husband, who is a Democrat. He refuses to vote for Obama again. If Romney is the nominee, he'll vote third party. If Gingrich is the nominee, he'll vote for him. I wonder if he was pulling my leg?

189

"It's supposed to act like it's a responsible majority in the party, now -- which it is. What the Tea Party says, goes. "

Yeah, ol' Boehner and Cantor have gutted the Federal Budget's they've discussed in the house. That $100 billion goal? They made 5% of that.

190 Except Newt was for the individual mandate - on a Federal level - before he was against it.

Actually, Newt was against any Federal takeover of healthcare (which is what he got, by the way- HilaryCare went down in flames).  He decided that if it was going to happen at all, it would be better to have an individual mandate than "pure" socialized Medicine.

The difference between that and Mittens, is that Newt got his plan 'A' (No Federal Healthcare- mostly, though COBRA is a lot less bad than any mandate or socialization of medicine), and Mitt did not.

So, for the score card: Let's assume (though I see no evidence of this in Romney's case) that they both had the same Plan 'A' (No government healthcare) and the same Plan 'B' (Individual Mandate instead of socialization.).  One of those got their plan 'A', and the other had to settle for plan 'B.'

Why should I vote for the guy who didn't win?

191

Do all of those clamoring for Pawlenty realize he endorsed Romney?

On a conference call with reporters this morning, former Minnesota governor Tim Pawlenty gave a preview of the Romney campaign’s defense of the candidate’s tax returns, which will be released tomorrow. Pawlenty argued reporters would notice three things about the returns: First, Romney has “paid a huge amount of money in taxes.” Second, he’s “given a very large sum of money in charitable contributions.” And third, “he’s complied with every tax law.”

192 it's kind of offensive to be asked, but yes, I will support likely loser Gingrich as I supported loser McCain.

193 it's kind of offensive to be asked, but yes, I will support likely loser Gingrich as I supported loser McCain.

194 I hope Ron Paul stays in, on the grounds that this whole exhausting process needs some comic relief.  I mean it's a hoot hearing a genuine 1930's-type isolationist hold forth.  (Not so much of a hoot hearing a genuine 1930's-type Commie hold forth on the State of the Union tomorrow, however.)

195 Why would the electorate of 2012 be so different from the electorate of 2010 that they would prefer Mitt over Newt? Or Obama over either one?

196 Rand Paul and TSA in constitutional showdown Article I, Section. 6. Clause 1: The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. (See Note 6) They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, beprivileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place. Posted by: Tom Jefferson at January 23, 2012 11:39 AM (e8kgV) He wasn't arrested by denied entry to the secure boarding area. All around another great day for the TSA?

197 ace....you'll make a wonderful father.......

198 Do the Iranians have a "Baghdad" Bob of their own ... "there are no Americans tanks in Baghdad = we will definitely close the Straights ..."

199 Posted by: DangerGirl at January 23, 2012 11:44 AM (FgfWs)

Focus on why he is an "ex," and then ask the question again.

200 Also, the fact that you ignore Santorum based on his social issues vibe is somewhat offensive. He is not a single issue candidate by any means.

Personally, I agree with Santorum on a few things.  I'm ignoring him because he lost his last race by 19 points. 

201 Except Newt was for the individual mandate - on a Federal level - before he was against it.  And yet you still prefer Newt to the Governor who gave deep blue Massachusetts - and only Massachusetts - that which it desperately longed for on the basis of their respective stands on health care reform.

Mitt told me he was an expert in health care in 2008, but he's not expert enough to look at how health care costs and delivery have been negatively impacted to recognize that it was a mistake?  Or he is too arrogant to admit it was a mistake.  That's a big problem. 

Romney had it in his power to apply his expertise, time, and money to developing free-market based solutions to health care costs and access, but instead he spent the past several years being careful and positioning himself via PAC contributions to have a bunch of politicians lined up for endorsements.  I've outlined here and elsewhere what Romney could have done to earn my vote.  Early in the primary season I defended Romney under the assumption that he would disavow Masscare.  A bunch of us tried to lay out the argument Romney could have made that would have satisfied us.  He refused to do it. 

Newt is flawed, but he is gaining traction now by appealing to conservatives, while Romney continues to cling to the strategy of distancing himself from us while he fishes for the Ann Althouses of this world. 

As of right now, I prefer the politician who thinks he needs my vote, so that's Newt. 

202 who is the bigger loser? mccain or gingrich?

203 it's kind of offensive to be asked, but yes, I will support likely loser Gingrich as I supported loser McCain.

Deal with it.  The rest of us have to take it from the Romneybots (and I know damn well you aren't one, Ace).  Everyone's getting it these days, and it sucks, but some people just can't comprehend that just because we don't like Their Boy, we aren't rooting for Obama.

204

Posted by: Jypsea Rose~AoSHQ Graveyard Shift at January 23, 2012 11:34 AM (digkk)

Still got my towel, but I'm pretty much with you otherwise.

205 Hey Chris, dude? You're going to have to accept that not everyone shares your priorities, and that it shouldn't be "offensive" to you to learn that I don't share yours. You apparently think that during the greatest economic crisis since the depression the country needs a social-values culture warrior more than ever. I'm not offended by that. I think it's bizarre, but I'm not offended by it. See? I don't find your views "somewhat offensive."

206 196 it's kind of offensive to be asked, but yes, I will support likely loser Gingrich as I supported loser McCain.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 11:44 AM (nj1bB)

197 it's kind of offensive to be asked, but yes, I will support likely loser Gingrich as I supported loser McCain.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 11:44 AM (nj1bB)

You have magical powers!

207 >>And how would a limited air war this summer effect the election in November?
Posted by: nevergiveup at January 23, 2012 11:37 AM (i6RpT)

Valid enough point and I wouldn't put it past a desperate dhim regime, but I was really just tipping 'rons and 'ettes about potential fuel spikes tomale regardless of what really develops.

208 153 Newt suggested we put to death anyone who brought 2 oz of pot across the border. Yeah - that will get the indendent voters on board. One of Newt's big ideas.

Posted by: whatever at January 23, 2012 11:35 AM (O7ksG)

I'll take your word for it, but it does sound like Newt, doesn't it?  He throws stuff out there.  He doesn't have a filter.  He sometimes throws bombs just to see if they'll blow up.

The problem is that the Tea Party or just Movement Conservatives are so eager to punish the so-called establishment, that they (we?) are using a weapon that will backfire.

Bottom line: Newt will not make a solid conservative president and he may, by some measures, be a disaster.  He's a high-risk, high-reward stock.

He never really gets past the brainstorming stage.

Now, as to whether we will vote for Newt or Mitt.  Trust me, you will.  Even if you've ginned yourself up to loathe one or the other, Obama will be on a spending and corruption spree the likes of which you've never seen. 

Example: Tom Vilsack announced loan guarantees last week to a company to build a green energy somethingorother in Iowa.

In the exact district where his wife is running for Congress.

209 Also, the fact that you ignore Santorum based on his social issues vibe is somewhat offensive.

I ignore Santorum because A) no executive experience.  None.  We have a former Senator with that going for him as POTUS now; B)  Sorry, the I-hate-sodomy angle is not in the top 100 issues in 2012, and; C)  If you think Newt is unlikeable--have you actually listened to Santorum speak for more than say five seconds at a time?  He's a dentist drill.

210  a little full of ourselves, aren't we?

211 I'm a Tea Party supporter and I supported Perry and now Romney. How does that make me a protest voter?

212 196
197

Both of you?

213

1. Perry failed because he ran a poor campaign and because he had some aggie moments in the debates. Texas fatigue may also have been a factor but IMO the screwups were the killer. Furthermore, Perry had his moment in the sun as the not-Romney but couldn't maintain it so don't go blaming Tea Party people for his mistakes.

2. Pawlenty couldn't get any traction last fall and is probably kicking himself for dropping out so early. Had he stayed in he probably would've had his 15 minutes as the not-Romney but he quit. He also shot himself in the foot with that weak sauce in the debate where he wimped out about "Obamneycare". Don't blame his failure on the Tea Party people either.

3. As for Romney, his problems IMO are multiple. First, he has taken the nomination process for granted and hasn't actively courted the base. He's made sure to court the bigshots but not the people who actually get out and vote. Second, he has been horrible at defense. Once other candidates started attacking him he's flailed around; for example, his work at Bain and his tax records. I personally am fine with Bain and I don't care how much he paid in taxes, but on Bain he never gave an impassioned and articulate answer and almost seemed ashamed of his work, while on his taxes he flipped, flopped, and eventually decided to release them. He looked weak.

But Romney's biggest problem is that a lot of his supporters are acting like douchenozzles. It's fine to attack his opponents, for as Romney himself said, this is politics not beanbag. But for a lot of these people, attacking his opponents in the primary isn't enough, they also have to attack the people who voted for his opponents or who may be leaning towards them. I see that since SC the pundit class has decided that a vote for Gingrich is a vote for Obama or that you're stupid or throwing a tantrum. Perhaps those in the Republican media would do well to remember that insulting potential customers is not the best way to sell a product. Give people a positive reason to vote for Romney, don't try to scare them or insult them into voting for him.

Anyway, I still expect Romney to win because this looks to be a long campaign and Romney has the money and the organization to fight a battle of attrition. But Romney supporters would be wise to avoid poisoning the wells. 

214 156 Romney supporters / Tea Party haters on this blog seem to believe that they can make the tea partiers see the error of their ways by continuously insulting them, constantly, and calling them stupid, weak ass, uncooperative, etc. 

I concur.  But the same goes for the Romney-haters who don't even see him as a major step up from Obama. 

Also, there's a lot of competing principles here that just end up devolving into angry mush.  yes, it's important to get someone elected in order to change things (cf. teh Buckley rule), but it's also important to be able to change the conversation so that whatever guy you elect is actually worth doing that.  Obama didn't happen overnight for the Left--it was predicated on years of media preparation and Bush fatigue, plus the Nader loss.

Similarly, I can understand why a lot of people would be against Romney even though he seems to have a better chance against Obama--they want to change the terms of the conversation.  It's a hard trade-off to make.  I mean, consider the differences between electing Romney and having him be moderate and bend over in that direction and then lose later to someone similar to Obama, to having 4 more years of Obama and then electing someone like Paul Ryan.  It's hyperbole to say we won't have a country anymore by then.

None of the alternatives are any good, and it doesn't help the conversation to call people stupid, unconcerned, angrily irrational, etc.  That sounds way too much like the old Leftist chestnut questions people about why they're "voting against their own interests".  It's shamefully condescending.

215 We don't want any democrats, independents, or squishy moderates voting for our candidate. We will win without them. *really* *cough*

216 You're now in the We're Here to Make POLICY mode. You're in the We're Here to Make Decisions about the Future Nominee Now.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 11:42 AM (nj1bB)

Which one would argue is what we're DOING.  You're just unhappy that the nominee we're currently looking at isn't the one you think we should be looking at.

How did they force anything down you're throats?

By more or less telling us that Romney is the only candidate who can possibly beat Obama and that supporting anyone else is suicide?  And then, when we try to support someone else, telling us that we're inbred, idiotic, uneducated backwoods losers who don't understand the nuances of Washington politics?  You mean stuff like that?

217 >>192 Had an interesting conversation with my ex-husband, who is a Democrat.

How old is he?  Did he live through Contract with America? 

218

You may find this hard to believe, but I don't track who supports whom. My comment was not directed at you or anyone, merely a statement of fact on where my line in party loyalty is.

Y-Not, I did not think it was directed at me.

But would you like it if I tore up Perry some?

He has about as much chance as winning the Presidency as RP does.

Shall I join the butthurt who are still ripping on him and mention all the reasons he sucks and I won't vote for him?

What would you do, how would you respond to those kind of comments?

It ain't Ron Paul - it's ALL OF THEM. Someone is doing it to ALL OF THEM.

Honestly, I don't think anyone gives a shit who you won't vote for. We have plenty of threats about that no matter who the nominee is (especially the Mitch Daniels brokered fantasy candidates who have no path to the nomination, like RP).

You've really got to be under the influence of the CIA's MKULTRA brainwashing waves if you think Ron Paul has a snowballs chance in hell of being POTUS. The reaction of 80% of the GOP would make Newt's nomination look like a tea party.

Not the angry racist kind of tea party, but the kind with doilies and little cups and the Queen of fucking England.

Anyone with a brain knows this. That is what pisses me off MOST about the RP hate - not that I am butthurt because I'm crazy enough to think you're ruining his chances (Ace apparently estimates him much higher than me). Because he has no chance anyway and you're beating up on a corpse.

Because, apparently, we don't have enough butthurt going around lately, we need to gin up some more.

219

174 -

Tell that to the House and Senate leadership.  I get the impression they believe the Tea Party is there to give them a majority, and to shut up and fall in line.

Problem is, I'm not sure the Tea Party is cohesive enough to stand up to leadership, so protest remains their most effective tool. 

220 It's has to stop being reactionary. What's this bullshit about a candidate being forced down your throats?

By whom? The minority of the party? The establishment which is pretty small and which you have demonstrated you have no respect for and who you will defy at every turn?

How did they force anything down you're throats?

You are the MAJORITY. in the party, at least for certain in the primary electorate of the party.

Get out of the We're Just Here to Make Trouble mode.

You're now in the We're Here to Make POLICY mode. You're in the We're Here to Make Decisions about the Future Nominee Now.


This.  If the principle being advanced is absolute fidelity in the candidate's public life to the ideals espoused by the Tea Party, how can it be that Newt is the favored candidate?  How can someone who flirted with statism from the relative safety of Georgia's 6th district - where there was no need to be seen as moderate - be the "True Conservatives'" preferred candidate?

221 Should be a fun debate tonight. What network is it on?

222 ABO.  Any of these candidates (except the crazy guy wearing the tin-foil hat tossing around in the attic) will be better than the SCOAMT.  I want an American to be president.

223 54

Bob Dole was back when the GOP did the "next in line" thing. Now we do the "purity" thing.

Posted by: whatever at January 23, 2012 11:10 AM (O7ksG)

 

That's such bullshit.  Our 'betters' and the MFM have made damn sure that all the candidates who were even close to 'pure' conservatives have been eliminated.  Now we're left with varying levels of big government loving assholes and an anti-semitic leprechaun.

224 it's kind of offensive to be asked, but yes, I will support likely loser Gingrich as I supported loser McCain. Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 11:44 AM (nj1bB) Good.

225 Has Ron Paul found his Nazi gold yet?

226 >>>who is the bigger loser? mccain or gingrich? mccain, because at least newt will lose fighting. Grandiosely. still, this guy has a lot of baggage, a lot of Rubs People The Wrong Way. It's only Republicans who could possibly think the only better candidate than someone perceived to be a Right Wing Extremist would be a Right Wing Extremist With A Smart College-Boy Mouth. I asked this rhetorically on Twitter: Remember 8 months ago when you paid Newt no mind because you assumed he was unelectable? What's changed since then? Has newt's baggage changed, or simply your desperation for a candidate? Because if it's the latter -- note that doesn't actually change anything.

227 O/T:  Have you seen drudge's headline:  _{^{"TSA DETAINS U.S. SENATOR"}}

228 "I'm ignoring him because he lost his last race by 19 points."

Posted by: Slublog at January 23, 2012 11:45 AM (0nqdj)

So the ability of a candidate to actually get elected to the office for which he is running is important to you?

229

What network is it on?

I think Oprah's network is due up in the rotation.

230

I did try to scream at the party.

I told the Tea Party to stop eliminating candidates based on weak-ass reasons, hunting for perfect fidelity.

And I told the Establishment to listen to the base, that there were going to be big problems if they expected Romney to just take the nomination, and to find a livable alternative to that.

Well geez aren't you just the SMARTEST person in America.

You can have it your way Ace, you just can't have it both ways.

231 After the next election, I think we know who is going to want to chair the HLS Appropriations Subcommittee

232

How about giving Newt credit for throwing a bone to Santorum and Paul supporters? 

Remember that “super candidate” Perry was just too fucking stupid to do that.

233
The MFM and DNC have strategies to attack any of these 4 candidates we have left which will probably resonate with voters.


Well ..... effin DUH.

Thats why its called a campaign.  If we are in a quest for the "Un-critizizable" candidate.... that would be an exercise in utter futility.  Since when did we become so fucking cowed by what Debbie Wasaman Schultz and Brian Williams has to say.   As if we are totally in-capable of rebuttal. 

Stop the goddamned hand wringing over what the MSM has to say.... because even IF there wasnt any you could criticise... they would just.make.shit.up.

Grow a pair.  Focus.  Repeat "The SCOAMF is a won term President".

234

Anyway, I still expect Romney to win because this looks to be a long campaign and Romney has the money and the organization to fight a battle of attrition. But Romney supporters would be wise to avoid poisoning the wells. 

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at January 23, 2012 11:48 AM (JxMoP)

Heh, right because Romney supporters are always treated with respect on this blog.

Jeebus

235 I'll tell you how it's supposed to act. It's supposed to act like it's a responsible majority in the party, now -- which it is. What the Tea Party says, goes. It's supposed to act like it's not casting Protest votes anymore. It's supposed to act like it understands it is now in a position of solemn responsbility-- responsibility it sought, and now possesses. Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 11:39 AM (nj1bB) Why don't you take your own advice? Your newly found support of Romney is an angry and irrational act of vengeance against the wingnuts who didn't flow to your candidate of choice. It is the ultimate definition of protest vote - a vote to spite the infidels, the traitors who should have supported Perry. You act exactly like that second wife. Vindictive, passive-aggressive, effeminate, and infantile. Your arguments in this thread are pathetic and nonsensical, and I'm certain you don't really believe in a single one of those. Stop being a butthurt bitch, it's a sad sight to behold.

236 So the ability of a candidate to actually get elected to the office for which he is running is important to you?

Yup. It's why I'm supporting Snowe in the GOP primary up here.  I don't like or agree with all of Snowe's points, but better her than her Marxist opponents.

237 It ain't Ron Paul - it's ALL OF THEM. Someone is doing it to ALL OF THEM.

Nobody does a circular firing squad like the Stupid Party.  The Dems just quietly excommunicate anyone insufficiently liberal.

238 MSM wanted McCain
McCain lost

MSM wants Romney
Romney will lose

The more the MSM screams for Romney, the more I want anyone but Romney.

239 People should just vote for who they want instead of basing their vote on what some supporters of the other candidates say to them. Elections have a tendency to bring-out the worst in people and that means you're going to be aggressively lobbied and denounced by some supporters of the other candidates.

240 Posted by: ambrosia at January 23, 2012 11:50 AM (oZfic)

It's in the sidebar, you fucking retard.

241 ace yep, at least newt will fight......

242 It's not there to make noise any longer. it's there to make DECISIONS. Ace, that's THE argument...I just don't know what that is supposed to look like right now. Maybe tomorrow. Not right now.

243 197 it's kind of offensive to be asked, but yes, I will support likely loser Gingrich as I supported loser McCain.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 11:44 AM (nj1bB)

 

And I'll support likely loser Romney just as I supported loser McCain.

ABO 2012

244 Santorum is unacceptable to many because of his social views, or at least being outspoken about them.

As for me, He just gives me the creeps.

Posted by: supercore23 at January 23, 2012 11:03 AM (bwV72)

Yes, this is exactly how I feel about him.  Plus he has zero charisma.  I know the latter point means nothing of substance but you can't ignore how it impacts voters.

245 230 - so true. As usual, Ace, you are spot on.

246

The future as seen by someone interested in voting for Newt Gingrich:

 

October 25, 2012 Mitt Romney Nominee:

John King: The Bureau of Labor and Statistics reported that the Stimulus Package passed by Barack Obama was directly responsible for saving over 2 million jobs at a cost of less than a trillion dollars, You think that was a bad idea would you explain why?

Mitt Romney:  You have to look at the costs John, the cost.  Overall 1 trillion into 2 million jobs is just not worth the price, it increased the debt and made our country weaker than where it otherwise would have been had the Stimulus not been passed.  Our economy would have been better if we hadn't passed the stimulus.

NYT October 26, 2012:

Mitt Romney, People's Jobs...Not worth the cost.  Latest Poll shows Obama 49% Romney 47%   ....Romney Favorability 54% Unfav 38%

<i>In Alternate Universe</i>

October 25, 2012 Newt Gingrich Nominee:

John King: The Bureau of Labor and Statistics reported that the Stimulus Package passed by Barack Obama was directly responsible for saving over 2 million jobs at a cost of less than a trillion dollars, You think that was a bad idea would you explain why?

Newt Gingrich: John, you know as well as I do that "saved" jobs in a bull**it statistic.  For 60 years, the BLS had been reporting jobs created and the Republic ran just fine.  Then, Obama passed his stimulus it didn't work so they created out of thin air a statisitic about "saved" jobs.  The amazing thing is, in advocating for the Stimulus Obama put out a chart promising that unemployment would only reach 7% with the stimulus but 8% without it.  According to Barack's OWN statistics, the stimulus was WORSE than doing nothing.  What that means is we would have been better off giving a $5000 check to every American than Obama's crony Solyndra friends.  And that's using their own numbers John.

NYT October 26, 2012:

Newt Gingrich says "bulls**t" on National Televised Debate Unfavorables soar showing 56% of respondents view Gingrich unfavorable...

page b16 full poll results Gingrich 51% Obama 43%

 

247 244 Posted by: ambrosia at January 23, 2012 11:50 AM (oZfic)

It's in the sidebar, you fucking retard.

Posted by: Waterhouse at January 23, 2012 11:52 AM (hNdbt)

Aren't you horrified that the TSA thinks it has so much power that it can detain a sitting US Senator?  Seemingly without blinking an eye or even thinking how it will look to the American people. 

248 What Mitt needs to do is embrace Coulter's insults directed to voters.  That will bring the voters that he needs into the fold.  Mocking them and insulting their intelligence by proxy are sure fire winning strategies.

249 Juicer - not wise to insult the host of this blog. If you don't like it here, leave.

250 "each is well worth bypassing, at least until those people get their personal houses in order"

Oh yes- because the candidates we are left with so, so have their personal houses in order!!!!  What we need- honesty, steadfastness, loyalty, ability to speak clearly on conservatism, intelligence-any of the candidates I mentioned- and I forgot West-  have those qualities in spades.  Obama isn't a giant failure because of his inexperience, but because he is a lying, Marxist, egotistical ass!  Who is has surrounded himself with other lying, Marxist, egotistical asses!  You know what- I don't want to hear about their little kids, or the feelings in their heart, or the need to wait for just the right moment until they are willing to help their country.  They are needed now.  They need to step up to the plate now and none of them are willing to do so.
THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.

251 >>>Why don't you take your own advice? Your newly found support of Romney is an angry and irrational act of vengeance against the wingnuts who didn't flow to your candidate of choice. Oh, Christine O'Donnell. Bam.

252

Y-Not, I did not think it was directed at me.

But would you like it if I tore up Perry some?

----

Entropy,

I often find myself agreeing with you, so I really don't want to fight with you. 

Lay into Perry all you want.  I'm sad and disappointed about how things turned out, but I'm surprisingly not suicidal about it.  I think the fact that he picked a candidate to endorse out of the gate (even if I'm not 1000% sold on that candidate... but I was leaning him as my back up anyway) helps salves the wounds a bit.  It's nice to know Perry is still going to be part of the national conversation.

But the thing about Ron Paul is that I have had the sense all election season that his supporters think they can capitalize on our disenchantment with Romney and others and swoop in to victory.  I think it's important for them to realize that I am not interested in what they're selling.  Not under any circumstances. 

You feel that way about Romney and that's fine.  I see no benefit to conservatives to feel required to swear fealty to the nominee if he's unacceptable.  And, in fact, it is possible (although remote) that I could find myself not voting for other non-Paul nominees depending on what comes out about the candidates during the general. 

So that's all. Really not trying to do anything other than signal where my line is right now on party line voting. 

253

@52

That's exactly the problem.  The media will make this election about the republican candidate not the last four years.  Will Mitt fight back?  Will he go balls out against Obama and the media.  Or will he be like a deer in the headlights?  Newt will get pissed and fight Obama and the leftists in the media without apology.  I like that.  A bunch of republicans in SC seem to like it too.  I hope all the future republican candidates take note of Newts success at correcting the bullshit questions thrown out there by the MSM.  We've had enough Romney/Dole/McCain types that don't fight back and want to be seen as a nice guy making "friends" with the media.  The media is not our "friend".  They are out to destroy conservatism and republicans and anyone to the right of their hero Obama/Pelosi/Kennedy/(insert MSMs favorite collectivist here) by any means necessary.  If the media can paint McCain (McCain!!) as a right wing extreamist in the last presidential election after kissing his ass for years as a "mavrick" and hero then they have much worse in store for the upcoming election. 

For the life of me I don't understand why the republican party can't understand that the MSM is out to get them.  Why don't they have coordinated attacks against the dems like the dems constantly have against us?  The "leader" of the house and the "leader" of the Senate aren't even on the same damn page half the time.  Who the hell is running the RNC and why aren't they implementing some sort of strategy?  Why don't they correct the slanted questions that are posed to them like Newt has done in the last couple of debates?  This bullshit has been going on for f'in years!  Do the RNC establishment types watch the same damn "news" reports I do?  Where is their outrage?!!  Do these fuckers even have a damn pulse?  I'm mad as hell and I'm not out there in the political arena getting my ass handed to me by the media day in and day out.  Wake up REPUBLICANS!

End of rant.... *breaths* deeply

254 Yup. It's why I'm supporting Snowe in the GOP primary up here.  I don't like or agree with all of Snowe's points, but better her than her Marxist opponents.

Posted by: Slublog at January 23, 2012 11:52 AM (0nqdj)

 

You actually saw a difference?

255 So I'm trending towards Newt, because Romney is too milquetoast, too babbity and his speeches put me to sleep.

If that were Mitt's biggest problem, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat.

Who doesn't want unoffensive milquetoast right about now?

In 2008, a Great Unifier was elected and proceeded to tear the country apart. I want somebody who is uninspiring, unoffensive and fiscally responsible.

And if we have any hope whatsoever of getting our fiscal house in order, it's not going to happen with a firebrand at the helm.  It's going to happen with somebody who people think is inoffensive but competent.

256 First, he has taken the nomination process for granted and hasn't actively courted the base. He's made sure to court the bigshots but not the people who actually get out and vote.

I don't think this can be said enough.  The "Establishment" is where the money and organization is.  That's really what we mean when we say "The Establishment."  We're not talking about some Bildgurberger-esque, shadowy cabal sitting in a dimly lit room, wearing heavy cloaks, and smoking Cuban cigars (okay- maybe the Cuban cigars, thing).  We're talking about the "people on top."  The money-bags and power-brokers of the party.

And they have a lot of influence, you can't really deny that.  The problem is that Romney took that influence and assumed it was a road to victory, and assumed he didn't need the base.  So, when given the chance to do little things like say, "Hey, I thought MassCare was the way to go.  I admit that.  I've seen the error of my ways, and the last thing I want is that kind of debacle on the national scale- of course I'll make repealing ObamaCare my first priority," he didn't take them.  And, while the "Establishment" may have more money and organization than the base, the base have more votes.

257 181 There is only one imperative this year, and that's getting rid of the stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure. If that means taking the poison in smaller doses -- which, IMO, means choosing The Mutt or The Newt -- then so be it.

Damn straight.

258 >>>Juicer - not wise to insult the host of this blog. If you don't like it here, leave He can insult me. I've probably insulted him. Yes, I do think a movement that moves passionately from one idiot candidate to another is making very unsound, emotional decisions. If the Tea Party wants to be taken seriously, they must become serious. This bullshit with Bachmann and Cain? Not serious. Juvenile. Child-like.

259

Since Newt is such a loose cannon, why is the establisment so worried? He's going to blow himself up any time now.

Romney could have switched and become a Democrat anytime in the last 10 years and no one would have been very surprised.

260

Makes me think that all those debate recaps where the analysis was "Romney won because he's in front and didn't do anything stupid" were missing the bigger trend.

Those were all failures to expand what began as the largest coalition in the primary field. Six months in front of the people and he consistently failed to sell himself sucessfully to the party.

 

261 Has newt's baggage changed, or simply your desperation for a candidate? ******* The problem is Romney.

262 Maybe, before you say that Santorum's willingness to take an unpopular stand on social issues will prevent him from winning, you should take a look at the younger generation and their mindset.

263

Heh, right because Romney supporters are always treated with respect on this blog.

Yeah, well--it gets bumpy here for everyone at times.  Even the Ewok.  Roll with it and defend yourself.

264

"Give me a reason to be optimistic and we'll talk.  Till then, I'll be out on the sidewalk with a cardboard sign that reads "The End Is Near"."

How bout 287 days until we kick Obama's ass out of office with whoever our nominee is?  How about once the nominee is selected, we all rally behind the person, even if it isn't our top choice.  Because despite everything else, if there's one reason that we need a R in office, it's foc SCOTUS nominees should there be any openings, and I expect there will be.  Yes, we are in financial peril.  But a 2nd Obama term means a huge shift in the balance of power of SCOTUS should any conservative justice (or Kennedy) die or resign.  Danger to the 2nd amendment amongst other issues.  And even if we win in 2016, the damage may be undoable.  So everybody get past themselves and support and vote for whoever the nominee ends up being.

265 It's only Republicans who could possibly think the only better candidate than someone perceived to be a Right Wing Extremist would be a Right Wing Extremist With A Smart College-Boy Mouth.

Gingrich and Romney are both sidewinding opportunists.  But Romney has stated that he will not attack Obama.  I guess his pitch in the general will be "I can afford better hair" or something.

266 Thank goodness. A new thread! That whole Romney versus Newt thing was becoming exhausting!




_What?

267 MSM wants Romney
Romney will lose

looks to me like MSM wants gingrich, and gingrich wants them

268 Please change the litter box, my eyes are watering and I'm nauseated. I think the place is going to be condemned. There may be no way to get rid of the smell.

269 Remember that “super candidate” Perry was just too fucking stupid to do that.

Perry did actually do it. He singled Ron Paul out at the end of one of the debates for a compliment on Federalism. 

270 Oh, Christine O'Donnell. Bam.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 11:55 AM (nj1bB)

Ha, I wasn't going to bring her up but she is the first thing I thought of when I saw the poll on Drudge this morning with Gingrich ahead.

271 Its going both ways... but Coulter is being an ass.

Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at January 23, 2012 11:56 AM (qjUnn)

The CT entitled elite came out in Coulter.  I saw the interview live, it was early and she'd had one too many cups of coffee.  But you certainly got the impression that she thought those north carolina voters were southern stupid uneducated hicks.   She really owes them an apology.

272 Damn, there's a lot of hating on Ace here. Either in spite of or because he's right, I don't know. We had guys with loads of the experience tailor-made for presidential candidates; Pawlenty, Perry, Huntsman, and Romney. Of those 4, Pawlenty was the best candidate; too bad Pawlenty didn't think so. We'll side step all the other gov's eliminated in the 'invisible primary' (Daniels, Palin, Christie...). Its entirely reasonable to think that the best candidates are former or sitting governors. Well, we've only got one left in the race.

273 THE TEA PARTY LOVES ITSELF AN FDR LOVING HACK http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CgdzZJePL04

274 Who doesn't want unoffensive milquetoast right about now?

In 2008, a Great Unifier was elected and proceeded to tear the country apart. I want somebody who is uninspiring, unoffensive and fiscally responsible.

And if we have any hope whatsoever of getting our fiscal house in order, it's not going to happen with a firebrand at the helm.  It's going to happen with somebody who people think is inoffensive but competent.

Posted by: AmishDude at January 23, 2012 11:56 AM (T0NGe)

 

You mean like Boehner and McConnell?  How's that working out so far?

275 Yes, I do think a movement that moves passionately from one idiot candidate to another is making very unsound, emotional decisions. ***** Even *if* that's the problem.... you can't persuade people with this observation. When the media calls SC anti-Mormon is that really why Romney lost by 14% points? Does it persuade anyone? Oh I'm going to vote for Romney to prove I'm not anti-Mormon. That kind of identity politics guilt only works on Democrats. The voters have a legitimate beef with Romney and the GOP better rehabilitate Romney ASAP. Sticking their heads in the sand and blaming the supposedly dumb Southern electorate is not going to cut it.

276 >>>Makes me think that all those debate recaps where the analysis was "Romney won because he's in front and didn't do anything stupid" were missing the bigger trend. >>>Those were all failures to expand what began as the largest coalition in the primary field. Six months in front of the people and he consistently failed to sell himself sucessfully to the party. Good point. Romney's not good at politics and he has no charisma. He also made a crooked path to the Republican nomination. Still, we're down to the lemons here. I said of Perry: Perry can conceivably get better at debating, whereas Newt can't go back in time and not be such a frenetic, flighty guy, and Romney can't undo Romneycare. Well, now that we're down to these two, at least Romney can get better at politics. Maybe. I doubt it. But it's conceivable. They're both so flawed I do sometimes consider Santorum. But he's... not good, either.

277

wow.  Ace in the Romney Camp? 

did anne coulter threaten you or something, ace?   what has she done to you? 

you don't have to be embarassed, we know you probably liked it. whatever it was...

278

Since Newt is such a loose cannon, why is the establisment so worried? He's going to blow himself up any time now.

Well, this TeaParty Perry supporter, is concerned that he will wait until after the nomination to blow himself up.

279 Remember 8 months ago when you paid Newt no mind because you assumed he was unelectable?

What's changed since then?

---

Newt earned a lot of respect from people when he started out his campaign being positive about Republicans and conservative ideals and solely attacking Obama.  Now it's true that he left that strategy in order to counter attacks on him, but if he returns to it, I think he can continue to build on his support. 

Just as Romney lost many of us between 2008 and 2011/12 by refusing to do what he needed to do on Masscare, Newt has gained some of us by playing the Happy Warrior. 

280 279 THE TEA PARTY LOVES ITSELF AN FDR LOVING HACK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CgdzZJePL04

Posted by: mike at January 23, 2012 12:01 PM (C6f7T)

Is this the stuff Beck has been playing.  Guess this is the mormon attack on gingrich today.

281 If the Tea Party wants to be taken seriously, they must become serious. This bullshit with Bachmann and Cain? Not serious. Juvenile. Child-like.

I love Ace's whole "when I do exactly what I criticized C4P for it's awesome" thing he's got going on.  Projection isn't only for Democrats, apparently.

Not for nothing, but the Tea Party handed you useless northeastern fucktards the House on a platter, and Boehner has proceeded to do nothing with it.  I'm sure you can understand the anger.

282 You actually saw a difference?

Heh.  I used to work with one of the Democrats who's declared his candidacy.  Hardcore lefty, much more so than Snowe.

283

The Debates are the Most Important Thing.

The Debates are the Most Important Thing.

The Debates are the Most Important Thing.

The Debates are the Most Important Thing.

Whoever Wins South Carolina will be the Nominee. 

Whoever Wins South Carolina will be the Nominee.

Whoever Wins South Carolina will be the Nominee.

Whoever Wins South Carolina will be the Nominee.

***Newt Gingrich wins South Carolina. Many voters say chose him because of his debate performances.***

 

^{Uh oh.}

The Debates are Not the Most Important Thing.

The Debates are Not the Most Important Thing.

The Debates are Not the Most Important Thing.

The Debates are Not the Most Important Thing.

South Carolina Doesn't Matter. There Are Many More Primaries.

South Carolina Doesn't Matter. There Are Many More Primaries.

South Carolina Doesn't Matter. There Are Many More Primaries.

South Carolina Doesn't Matter. There Are Many More Primaries.

 

284 Roll with it and defend yourself.

Debate tactics here often channel more "Let me answer that with a head-but" than "parry, riposte."

285

Once the race is effectively over, there's little reason for Palin's banal, vapid "analysis" on Fox.

That bitch Palin has gotten off relatively easy on this one, by virtue of the fact she wimped out of running. Be she still has incorrect opinions which are influence the race! How many children does she have now? Did we ever get a paternity test?

286

A week ago Mitt was considered inevitable.  Now Ace thinks the Newt has nomination sewn up.

And either way, he thinks Obama is going to win.

I just donÂ’t see the logic.  Every historical indicator points to republican landslide.  Independents overwhelmingly canÂ’t stand Obama.  Unemployment is staying high and gas prices are rising.  Nothing is improving, but for some reason the doomsayers here canÂ’t accept reality.  What is the reason theyÂ’ll believe every poll except the ones that say theyÂ’re going to win?

On top of all that, someone tell me how either Mitt or Newt gets the nomination.  Which side is going to cave?  Do we have people here so fucking stupid that they believe the rest of the country is going to vote the same way South Carolina or Florida does? 

287 Posted by: ambrosia at January 23, 2012 11:55 AM (oZfic) Go back to the glory hole and take it up the ass a few dozen times, and then get back to us.

288

Ace-

 

You're dead wrong.

 

You act as if the Tea Party owes anything to the establishment wing of the party.

 

Nope.

It's quite simple really. If the GOP wants the tea party vote, they need to earn it.

The GOP establishment got us into this mess in part.

 

At some point, they have to learn the hard lesson.

289 >>I guess his pitch in the general will be "I can afford better hair" or something.

I'm pretty sure talking about Obama's hair is racist.

290

ace--I agree about Bachmann and Cain, but they should be just the normal Republican version of a "Howard Dean" moment, flash and gone. A good candidate should have emerged that could unite the party.

Perry blew himself up before 95% of the voters got to vote him up or down. And his "too much like Bush" problem was a real problem for indys too.

The good candidates are on the sidelines, without the balls to run and the balls to lead.

Newt looks like he has balls, so here he is. Romney has the personality of a Ken doll, so he's got a problem.

291 Oh, Christine O'Donnell. Bam. Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 11:55 AM (nj1bB) Didn't get the succinct hint. O'Donnell was a crazy bitch and a con-woman. Her electability was on par with Perry's after his debate flameout. Cain and Bachmann were out of their depth as well as Perry. What's the fucking point? Gingrich is not a protest vote, he is the embodiment of compromise. Romney IS a protest vote. Your protest vote. I don't accuse you of being teh eevil enstablishment. I accuse you of throwing a hissy fit and sticking it to the wingnuts. You deny that?

292
Instead of re-posting some old comments from last summer telling Newt to go blow, I'll just remind everyone about a popular (and childish) belief here in the AoS comment threads in early 2009:

"Don't worry. Four years of Carter gave us 8 years of Reagan."

Now look where we are.

293 Not for nothing, but the Tea Party handed you useless northeastern fucktards the House on a platter, and Boehner has proceeded to do nothing with it.  I'm sure you can understand the anger.

Please tell us what a Speaker of the House can "do" when the Senate and Presidency are controlled by the other party, except compromise and adopt part of the Senate/President's agenda?

This is the kind of puerile bullshit that informs my perception of Gingrich's "surge."

294

Peel off 10% of the vote when dems pick back to back photos of Newt and Obama: Newt looking pasty, scary, old. Obama looking confident and young. America is stupid and superficial. That is a fact.

295 If Newt takes Florida, its all over for Romney. Right after that the rest better drop out or Paul could ride a 4 way divide of delegates into the convention.

296 291:  Yeah...we're overdue for an 'official' flame thread.

Should probably have at least one a week from here 'til November.

297 Out of the billowing smoke...emerges Gingrich! Yaerrrrggh!

298 Romney can't undo Romneycare. ****** Actually the only person that can do this is Romney. If he's willing to go there...it could turn into his greatest strength and asset. Hell -look how Gingrich has been able to do it. Romney can say-I know what is wrong with going down this path-I know the ins and outs of it-and- I am just the guy to tear down ObamaCare. (Tear down this wall...)

299

Nope.

It's quite simple really. If the GOP wants the tea party vote, they need to earn it.

The GOP establishment got us into this mess in part.

 

At some point, they have to learn the hard lesson.

Posted by: trump at January 23, 2012 12:03 PM (M7Awp)

Is that what this is about? Teaching the GOP a lesson? Well I am glad you have your priorities straight.

I thought maybe we were trying to replace Obama because the damage he has done already with be times 10 in his second term.

300

For Chr*st's sake, everyone shut up. 

Romney is not a perfect conservative.

Newt is not a perfect conservative.

Romney supports his Romneycare clusterfuck despite the facts ("facts," ace, which you think are far more important than arguments) that prove it is a miserable, abject failure.

Newt sat on a couch with Nancy Pelosi to pander to the Greenies, and has never offered a sufficient mea culpa nor addressed his take on AGW given all the most recent evidence discounting it as a sham.

Romney is an accomplished capitalist.

Newt was a major factor in electing the first Republican majority to Congress in 1994.

We can sit here and debate the pluses and minuses of either candidate until we're blue in the face, but trying to call one better than the other is like trying to say Tropicana orange juice is better than Minute Maid.  All anyone can do is follow their gut and make an informed decision about who they prefer.  Then they can SHUT UP and stop bitching if their candidate loses, and stop partying like it's 1999 if their candidate wins.  The only time I intend to crack the bubbly is when obama is soundly beaten by the Republican nominee in November. 

If ANY of our current candidates can't beat someone with the personal, professional and political negatives of the SCOAMT in the general election, then we were fucked before any of the candidates even declared.

301 somebody help me out, who the heck is "the establishment" ? apparently now ann coulter is the establishment, but newt I've been in and around washington all my life gingrich is not, so i am a wee bit confused

302 281 Yes, I do think a movement that moves passionately from one idiot candidate to another is making very unsound, emotional decisions.

Hello, mirror.

303 You know when this election is over, the entirety of the Republican Party will sit around and go, shit, Ace *told* us. Next time we'll listen.

304 Well, this TeaParty Perry supporter, is concerned that he will wait until after the nomination to blow himself up.

The good news is that I don't think he has the restraint to hold off that long.

The speech about space should be good. You think he'll propose big mirrors in space?

305 Your newly found support of Romney is an angry and irrational act of vengeance against the wingnuts who didn't flow to your candidate of choice.

Bullshit.  It's a rational choice.  Perry endorsed Newt, remember?

Not-Romney is not always the best candidate just because he's not Romney.

306 299 - It is best to lose all control. No House. No Senate. The then purity base can really get going on teh whine.

307 The good candidates are on the sidelines, without the balls to run and the balls to lead.

If they didn't have the wherewithal to take a crack at it, were they actually that good to begin with?

It's like anything else, you get more of what you subsidize, less of what you penalize.  This field isn't an accident.  It may not entirely be by design, either, but it does follow logically from the GOP's choices.

308

The fucking race is not over.

For those of you bashing the Tea Party, it's a pretty new movement and it was a big force in the last cycle.

I prefferred Pawlenty and Perry. That's over.

We get Newt or Romney. Embrace the suck.

309 Not for nothing, but the Tea Party handed you useless northeastern fucktards the House on a platter, and Boehner has proceeded to do nothing with it.  I'm sure you can understand the anger.

Also not for nothing, that same movement also lost us the Senate by nominating O'Donnell and Angle.

310 Completely OT (which should be fine after 300+ comments): new post at my place as of this morning.

311 How bout 287 days until we kick Obama's ass out of office with whoever our nominee is?  How about once the nominee is selected, we all rally behind the person, even if it isn't our top choice.

Wishcasting.

We're not going to beat Obama with just anybody.  You don't beat an incumbent with a candidate that's about as popular with the general electorate as kidney stones.  

Sure, I'll vote for the primary winner.  However, I'm not going to feel any degree of self-satisfaction for doing so when I know I'm voting for the inevitable loser.

312

You're dead wrong.

You act as if the Tea Party owes anything to the establishment wing of the party.

Nope.

It's quite simple really. If the GOP wants the tea party vote, they need to earn it.

The GOP establishment got us into this mess in part.

At some point, they have to learn the hard lesson.

Thanks for being involved and making your voice heard before 2010, asshole.  It must feel really good to have sat out a bunch of contentious battles in which compromises were made and ride in at the end to tell the battle-scarred warriors that they've "been doing it wrong."  And seemingly by "hard lesson" you mean "second term for Obama."  Awesome.

313

I'm giving up. Conservatives are so angry they want to lose.

Okay, lose.

>>>>   LOL Ace, you do realize that by voting for Romney, we also lose, right?  Just a drop slower?

 

 

 

314 For the record, I'll vote for the candidate who is not Obama. 

315 306 Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 23, 2012 12:07 PM (4df7R)


This.  This, a thousand times this.

316 Newt looking pasty, scary, old.

He doesn't look that old to me.  He has white hair, but plenty of it. 

Meanwhile, Romney looks like the endorser for Brill Cream. 


Romney is 64 and Gingrich is 68.

317

Heh, right because Romney supporters are always treated with respect on this blog.

My issue isn't as much with people on here, it's with the Republican media types: Ann Coulter, Karl Rove, S.E. Cupp, the list goes on and on. They're the ones who have the ability to piss a lot of people off in a short amount of time. My concern is that if these folks go scorched earth that we'll end up with Romney getting similar results to McCain because a lot of people will decide to stay home. Short-sighted, yes, but it could happen.

I really don't love any of these guys. I'll vote for Romney if he's the nominee just like I'll vote for any of the others. I'm just saying that the Republican media elites might be better served making the case for Romney instead of attacking the voters.

318 >>> I accuse you of throwing a hissy fit and sticking it to the wingnuts. You deny that? Well, yes, duh. What, you guys are incredible. You fly from candidate to candidate and then are always shocked that people aren't joining you on your latest sudden enthusiasm. I don't like Romney. I've said so many times and at some length. But I've been pretty damn consistent that what I wanted was someone plausible as a candidate first. Gingrich is a serial adulterer who's never had a job in his adult life outside of government or lobbying the government and who has never held an executive position (outside of his lobbying firm) and whose unfavorables are at 60% and who is as Central Casting as far as the porcine ugly republican as you could want. His previous stint as Speaker was marked by low approval ratings too, despite buckling and giving in to clinton on the shut down. His former colleagues are nigh-unanimous on the idea he's a bad manager who cannot stick to a gameplan and cannot keep focused. I am not saying these things to be mean. I actually like him... as a guy, as a rabble-rouser. But you're sitting here telling me he's got great chances. What? This thing I keep being told -- "The old playbook doesn't matter! We're creating new rules!!" The old rules are old rules for a reason. Why are you telling yourself stories?

319 If Newt takes Florida, its all over for Romney. Possible. But go look at the schedule. Michigan and AZ go off before Super Tuesday. I doubt Gingrich can win delegate rich states like Cali, and NY. A lot off states go off at once. We are past the schedule of states going off one at a time-that happen to be next door to Georgia..... Newt needs a lot of money to come in to compete in multiple states at the same time. Plus Newt is not on the ballot in VA. So Mitt could come in third in FL and still compete well due to the nature of the rest of the schedule.

320

And seemingly by "hard lesson" you mean "second term for Obama."  Awesome.

>>> First of all, go f**k yourself for your uncalled for insult. Second of all, seeing as they annointed Romney, I guess they didn't learn the lesson.

The establishment GOP is part of the problem. Eff them.

321 Aren't you horrified that the TSA thinks it has so much power that it can detain a sitting US Senator?

I'm horrified you think laws should apply differently to US Senators than the regular population.

Then again, you are a babbling fuckwit.

322 The good news is that I don't think he has the restraint to hold off that long.

The speech about space should be good. You think he'll propose big mirrors in space?

He's going to roll out his groundbreaking astronomy theory that the Universe does, in fact, revolve around Newt Gingrich.

323 how would you know what beck is playing...you don't listen to beck......ever.......

324

Well, this TeaParty Perry supporter, is concerned that he will wait until after the nomination to blow himself up.

Posted by: dagny at January 23, 2012 12:01 PM (w+PM

That's a worthy concern. I think blowing up is more likely now while he's running to make a splash. Candidates tone it down and move to the middle once they are nominated and Newt knows that.

325 Completely OT (which should be fine after 300+ comments): new post at my place as of this morning.

First off, anything after 100 comments is wide open.

Second, congrats on the new place!(?)

326
Also not for nothing, that same movement also lost us the Senate by nominating O'Donnell and Angle.

1. Horseshit.

2. Tell me how 2010 would've turned out absent the entire Tea Party movement.

327

Is that what this is about? Teaching the GOP a lesson? Well I am glad you have your priorities straight.

I thought maybe we were trying to replace Obama because the damage he has done already with be times 10 in his second term 10 in his second term

 

>>>> If the GOP never learns, we never solve the problems.

328 In Florida there are a lot of retired military and military bases. Romney should remind people of Clinton's RIF. What did Gingrich do to fight that?

329 A few months ago after Newt called Ryan's plan right wing social engineering and his staff quit him, I was calling him The Wizard of Fucking Oz with no shot.
I am currently looking for my Oz map sheets and orienting myself to yellow brick infrastructure.
Who the Hell knows what's going to happen. But one thing hasn't changed in 5 years - the level of support for Romney.
And despite the admirable loyalty of his followers and johnny come aces latelys and it's hard to see that changing now.

ABthegoddammarxist.

330 Romney's a flip-flopper? The hell, you say! Know the ONE thing he has NEVER flip-flopped on? RomneyCare. But trust that he'll repeal ObamaCare. See, that's the one Full Aerial Pike & Tuck that I can't make the landing stick on Romney

331 He's going to roll out his groundbreaking astronomy theory that the Universe does, in fact, revolve around Newt Gingrich.

It's visionary I tell ya!!!

332
Actually, Noot was a professor for a while in the '70's.

333 I'm horrified you think laws should apply differently to US Senators than the regular population. See the Constitution

334

You mean like Boehner and McConnell?  How's that working out so far?

Posted by: Soona at January 23, 2012 12:01 PM (cqLNL)

Obama is "at the helm" and if you can point to the 2/3rds R majorities in Congress, I'm waiting.

335 turn on your radiios-- Rush is whipping it good , in re Devo

336 Perry endorsed Newt, remember? Posted by: AmishDude at January 23, 2012 12:08 PM (T0NGe) Probably because Perry is a rational grown up who understands his failure is his own, and does not blame the voters for not sticking with him to the bitter end.

337 If the GOP never learns, we never solve the problems.

If Obama wins, the problems get worse.

I'll go with "flawed candidate" myself.

338 Romney's a flip-flopper? The hell, you say! Know the ONE thing he has NEVER flip-flopped on? RomneyCare. But trust that he'll repeal ObamaCare. ****** This a thousand times-when in the hell is the Romney Team going to wake up?

339 I'm giving as good as I get, you guys don't have to worry about me. I KNOW it's better to just stay out of it. But I can't, or at least I'm not. I deserve what I get. Still, I gotta be honest. I could play the bullshit some sites play where I pretend All Candidates Are Good Candidates. Which none of them believe; they're just trying to suck up/pander/not alienate readers. That's a choice. I get that choice. I can't do it. I gotta tell you what I honestly believe. I honestly believe that Gingrich is an 80% likely loser, whereas Romney is a 55% likely winner. No, that's not a lock, because Romney rubs people the wrong way. . He sucks a politics. He does not have any kind of charisma. He doesn't understand people. He is apparently surrounded by knuckleheads who are very high on loyalty (Camp Romney is cultish) and very low on understanding voters. But he is the typical sort of guy who wins elections -- stable family life without hint of scandal, good looks (and yet zero charisma; it's weird that someone with perfect looks could be completely without appeal). Has a good resume on paper, if you're ignoring ideological stuff. Yeah, being a billionaire capitalist winner isn't so bad-- shows he knows finance and economics -- and he was a governor. Did the job. No scandals. Seemed to run things well enough. There is a type of guy who typically wins and a type of guy who doesn't. I didn't want the RINO guy. But I NEED OBAMA OUT OF OFFICE. Under no circumstances can we let the perfect be the enemy of the good. WE NEED OBAMA OUT OF OFFICE. PERIOD.

340 turn on your radiios-- Rush is whipping it good , in re Devo

I'm not near my radio therefore you just volunteered to translate.

341
Well, I for one am looking forward to seeing Mitt's tax returns.
What is he hiding???

I wanna make sure he's paying his Fair Share.

342 Perry endorsed Newt. ***** I suspect Perry found Romney's finger prints on the rock...

343

307 somebody help me out, who the heck is "the establishment" ? apparently now ann coulter is the establishment, but newt I've been in and around washington all my life gingrich is not, so i am a wee bit confused

Okay.

Newt was 'anti-Republican-establishment' before it was cool. ....He bucked them in the 90's. ....And they let him twist in the wind and be eviscerated by the liberal media. Just like what happened to Sarah Palin.

Newt stayed in politics, eking out a living by doing speaking engagements, selling books, promoting conservative ideas. .....So the Rep-establishment tolerated him, even threw him some bones....and letting him attend their big functions.

So even though Newt has been a 'Washington Player', it's not like he's been a card-carrying member of the Republican elite.

344

The argument is now set, and all can see. Your choices are Newt the nutty professor who puts on a good show, or Romney the Democrat running as a Republican, or the SCOAMF.

345 Funny how in 2008.. it was Romney who was the conservative alternative to McCain.

Reason: That's soooo 2008.

346

Lay into Perry all you want.

Y-not, I don't want. I really don't want. I hate the bastards still laying in to Perry. It's irrelevant, Perry's not even in it (which adds insult to injury).

Consequently I won't even respond or say shit. I'll just seethe. Spite breeds more spite. All I know is, these Romneybots weren't just posturing for their guy, they literally hate federalism (think it's racist?) and want to see Perry lose in Texas! WTF?!?

That's what I'm hearing from them. Why else would they still attack him?

Makes me feel real fuzzy about getting over our differences and uniting against Obama. It almost seems like it's more important we end that bastard Perry.

But the thing about Ron Paul

Is irrelevant. I stopped reading there. I don't care what the thing about Ron Paul is, he's not going to win. He's not going to get your vote. I know both these things - I don't give a shit why.

You're also not going to change my mind. You can't tell me anything I don't know. My calculus of what I can overlook, what I can ignore, which issues I put first and which ones I compromise on, will not change.

It's fun to see people still laying into the guy though. Please do tell us what is wrong with Ron Paul, and when you're done, tell is what is wrong with Ann Coulter, and what is wrong with Jennifer Rubin, and what is wrong with Robert Bork too maybe - he ain't perfect, he's got skeletons, why should that self-righteous bastard escape The Reckoning?

Why doesn't Rubin get a turn in the barrel? She's kind of a bitch. Let's destroy her.

In case I'm not coming through - no I don't want to 'focus on Jen Rubin'. I don't give a fuck about Jen Rubin.

Jen Rubin isn't on the ballot. The only people who could concievably give a fuck about Jen Rubin are her fans, and you're not going to win nothing with them by bashing her.

347 there is only one way out of this mess - romney/gingrich or gingrich/romney 2012, beofore it gets so ugly that baracky's minions won't even have to spend on adds
 

348 Everyone is a conservative alternative to McCain.

349 good looks (and yet zero charisma; it's weird that someone with perfect looks could be completely without appeal) ***** No this happens more than you think. The gorgeous and the rich don't have to work on their personalities to attract people.

350

But I've been pretty damn consistent that what I wanted was someone plausible as a candidate first.

I've yet to see an argument that makes Romney anymore plausible than Newt, ace.  This is my problem with the folks who tell me I must support Romney.  I see Romney and I see MassCare.  I see Romney at that desk signing the MassCare legislation with Ted Kennedy yukking it up behind him like an alcoholic walrus.  I see Romney and I see Massachusetts, period.  I live right NEXT to Massachusetts, and I hate it. 

If Romney had stuck around as governor, maybe he could have seen the emerging problems in MassCare and taken steps to fix them.  he didn't.  he stayed long enough to sign his signature piece of legislation, then he bailed to run for President.  And he won't even say that much!  He won't even say, "MassCare has been grossly mismanaged and has failed in its nitended purpose, which was to provide accessible, low cost healthcare to the people of Massachusetts.  Obamacare has taken the MassCare model and inflated it to an even more unmanageable, bureaucratic, expensive, inefficient nightmare.  It needs to be junked and the conversation about healthcare costs need to start again from square one."  

Why won't he at least give us that much?  Give me that, Romney, and I'll stand behind you, no problem.  As it stands now, I don't get how he is supposed to be any better than Newt. 

351 I'm not near my radio therefore you just volunteered to translate.

Posted by: My name is Newt, but you can call me VISIONARY! at January 23, 2012 12:16 PM (piMMO)

I'll whip it good:  Newt is Goldwater with a bug up his ass, not Reagan

352 I don't give a damn who it is at this point.  I will haul my raggedy ass down to the polls and vote R all the way across the board.  I will hector my moping friends down to the polls so that they can vote R all the way across the board.  I will comment on blogs exhorting everyone to get down to the polls so that they can vote R all the way across the board. 

353 Sock reset.

354 352 Funny how in 2008.. it was Romney who was the conservative alternative to McCain

A bunch of us have addressed this many times. 

If Romney had spent the past three years helping to formulate alternatives to Obamacare (and Masscare) and had been out there fighting against it and been willing to bring himself to admit it is a disaster, a lot of us would be more comfortable with him.  Instead, he grudgingly promises to sign a Repeal of it, but tells us he'll Replace it with something... but won't tell us what that something is. 

355 there is only one way out of this mess - romney/gingrich or gingrich/romney 2012, ***** Ya if I were on Team Romney I would be on the phone to Newt (if he would pick up)... liten Newt you know you can't win the general-how does Secretary of State sound? Hell call Callista.....

356 Let me get this straight--The GOP needs to proves to the Tea Party it deserves their vote by nominating Gingrich, the guy who undermined NY-22 and endorsed Dede Scozzafava? The guy who singlehandedly undermined Paul Ryan? I fully understand your hatred of Romney. Romney sucks. But when Ace talks about voters being a cheap date, this is what he means. Gingrich can turn in a good debate and everybody goes back to thinking he's one of us. This guy ain't a Tea Partier.

357 Unlike 99% of you, it's not a choice between two bad candidates for me. I've believed since 2007 that Romney would be a very good President. Unfortunately, a two time adultering, couch sitting, Freddie Mac history taking, fat man might not let me find out if I was correct. Such is life.

358 Look, to win a primary you have to win. We had ONE cacas and ONE primary when Perry was ordered to fall on his sword for NEWT. This was the "conservative media" and their too-dumb-to-breathe supporters who also fucked us out of senate seats.

359 Let's look at turnout so far in the primaries in 2012 vs 2008:

Iowa - 3% higher in 2012
New Hampshire - 3% higher in 2012
South Carolina - 24% higher in 2012

Newt didn't catch fire until South Carolina.  I don't think we can beat Barky with a measly 3% increase in turnout in the general.  But, you might be saying - hey, Iowa and New Hampshire are northern states and we shouldn't expect an energized base there.  And that's a good point.  But, I say the base is either energized or it's not.  If it's not, we don't win.  The question is - do we want to win or not?

Do I think a President Newt would be a friggin disaster - why yes, yes I do.  But, do I think he would sign a balanced budget amendment?  Yes, yes I believe he would.  

360 I am not saying these things to be mean. I actually like him... as a guy, as a rabble-rouser.

Hell, I want Newt to do what he said he would do as nominee (which is a terrible idea if he is the nominee).  Follow Obama around.  Counter him.  Mock him.

Nothing would stop Newt the non-nominee from doing this.

361 attacking the MFM won't impress most voters;  to them he seems Permanently Pissed and Vicariously Vexed

 Newt is Spiro 'Ted' Agnew rather than Ronald Wilson Reagan ???

362 Okay, there's now at least two of us in the Draft Teh Fred campaign.

Who's with us?!

363 331 how would you know what beck is playing...you don't listen to beck......ever.......

Posted by: phoenixgirl....a voter without a candidate at January 23, 2012 12:12 PM (Ho2rs)

Aaaaand, Phoenixgirl strikes home! That is going to leave a mark!

Good catch.

364 Unlike 99% of you, it's not a choice between two bad candidates for me. I've believed since 2007 that Romney would be a very good President.

Yeah dude.  Trust us- we know.

365 We are down to two choices: The guy less popular with the base than McCain(!) or the guy who is creating great enthusiasm but because of has his high negatives.

FIFY. Well, at least that's how it seems to me.

366

 whatever at January 23, 2012 12:19 PM

THREADWINNER!!111!!

367 Are you folks forgetting Newt's debate performances in which he prefaced most remarks by saying nice things about his Republican opponents and then focusing on putting forth a positive vision of America?  That was my impression of him.  I think that's how he'd run in the general and I think it would be effective. 

368

Ace still likes to spite Bachmann and Cain.

Ace saw the opportunity of Bachmann hitting 2.3% in the polls to 'safely' unload on her ass, now that no one was backing her or would defend her.

Did he win the undying support of 97.7% of his readers by doing this?

No, he just lost 2.3% of them. Not a big deal, small numbers.

What do we have to gain by pissing off people who like Bachmann?

You know what the real problem with this nomination process is?

Mark Levin. Let me tell you why.... Nobody gives a fuck why! Levin is a normal human being with strengths and flaws who wants a constitutional government - ample reason to destroy his character and shame his family.

369 No, today is calmer and I was listening to beck and disappointed.  Seems the mormon card trumps everything with beck.  It's a shame.  Just turned him off.  Wasn't going to listen to him sell Santorum down the river.

370 Posted by: Grey Fox at January 23, 2012 12:24 PM (qMs8j)

Which reminds me, I really want to see that movie The Grey, although it is about wolves, not foxes.

371 If Romney had spent the past three years helping to formulate alternatives to Obamacare (and Masscare) and had been out there fighting against it and been willing to bring himself to admit it is a disaster, a lot of us would be more comfortable with him.  Instead, he grudgingly promises to sign a Repeal of it, but tells us he'll Replace it with something... but won't tell us what that something is. 

Posted by: Y-not, Newt leaner at January 23, 2012 12:20 PM (5H6zj)

Yes I agree, he should have done what Newt did 7 months ago on MTP and said he was for a national inidvidual mandate or in lieu of that force everyone to buy a payment bond.

In fact Newt said he as always been "consistantly" for the mandate.

372 377 Are you folks forgetting Newt's debate performances in which he prefaced most remarks by saying nice things about his Republican opponents and then focusing on putting forth a positive vision of America?  That was my impression of him.  I think that's how he'd run in the general and I think it would be effective. 

Posted by: Y-not, Newt leaner at January 23, 2012 12:25 PM (5H6zj)

Holy shit, you mean... you mean we should focus on POSITIVES?

Jiminy H. Christmas, MIND. BLOWN!

373 A few months ago after Newt called Ryan's plan right wing social engineering ... Gingrich never called Ryan's plan right wing social engineering. He said that imposing Ryan's plan without building public support would be right wing social engineering, the same as imposing Obamacare without the support of the people was left wing social engineering. Social engineering is when you implement something without the people's consent, hoping that it will change their behavior.

374  In Florida there are a lot of retired military and military bases.

Romney should remind people of Clinton's

RIF.

What did Gingrich do to fight that?

Posted by: tasker at January 23, 2012 12:13 PM (r2PLg)

 

That was from an independent Base Closure Committee.  We still have that.  Base closures are going to happen, whether it's from politics or necessity.   

375 Um.... right. So the guy who repulses 3/4 of primary voters is the most electable in the general?

Umm... you mean all of them?

This is such an absurd argument- "If they did well in the primary, that means they're electable!".

No, it doesn't.  Completely different electorate, and a very small slice of it at that.

376 The problem is that Newt ISN'T a rightwing extremist (as Perry was, almost). It's that he's fairly moderate. And yet we're nominating the most antagoistic moderate we have, because we likes when he slaps around the hapless buffoon Juan Williams.

377 Well, well, not so long ago, say last summer when Newt took his "vacation", most  were hating on him like they are hating on Romney now. What a difference a "day" makes....

378 Rush Limbaugh just said he was supporting Gingrich? Did I just hear that right?

379 >>No this happens more than you think.
The gorgeous and the rich don't have to work on their personalities to attract people.
Posted by: tasker at January 23, 2012 12:19 PM (r2PLg)

Try getting a glimpse of the man's eyes. Small beady windows. Hate to sound shallow but it kinda matches his message.
And most people that are described as attractive usually have the eye factor working for them.

380 Just to emphasize the point--all the Tea Partiers complaining about Boehner and the Republicans in the House not doing anything? That's in large part due to the guy you're about to nominate. They had a plan ready to go an Gingrich cut it off at the legs. You're taking out your anger by boosting the guy who is significantly responsible for it.

381 nominate the Rich Semi-Con w/ Hair, with Newt as his Veep

the Wind and the Brylcreem Lion;    The Man Who Knew Too Little  & The Former History Professor Who Won't Shut Up;

382

Not for nothing, but the Tea Party handed you useless northeastern fucktards the House on a platter, and Boehner has proceeded to do nothing with it.  I'm sure you can understand the anger.

Also not for nothing, that same movement also lost us the Senate by nominating O'Donnell and Angle.

Oh, did the other Republicans forget to vote that day?  WTF where the Castle supporters.  Didn't they get the memo there was a primary election?

383 Which reminds me, I really want to see that movie The Grey, although it is about wolves, not foxes.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 23, 2012 12:26 PM (piMMO)

 

I thought it was about the party life in southern FL.

384 Did I just hear that right?

Posted by: Jypsea Rose~AoSHQ Graveyard Shift at January 23, 2012 12:28 PM (digkk)

No; sort of'; not exactly; 'more or less',  to quote Capitano Schettino

385 Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 12:28 PM (nj1bB)

Then suggest a rational course of action that leads to a popular conservative nominee who has a real chance of unseating the JEF.

386 Rush Limbaugh just said he was supporting Gingrich?

Did I just hear that right?

Posted by: Jypsea Rose~AoSHQ Graveyard Shift at January 23, 2012 12:28 PM (digkk)

 

Probably not.  Not in the primary.

387 Obama is unelectable.

388

 So...compromise and bargain (that's just normal politics, after all)...unless it's luaP noR...or Huntsman...or somebody like that, then? We stick to our guns, by god! Purity or Death! The line must be drawn here! This far - no further!

 

 ...riiight...

389 If Newt is the nominee, it will be the first time in my adult life I will not be voting. Bob Dole and McCain were bad enough. But I can't look my kids in the eye and tell them I voted for someone with no moral or ethical values, especially since he has no chance in November.

390 see Romney at that desk signing the MassCare legislation with Ted Kennedy yukking it up behind him like an alcoholic walrus. This is the mental image that pops into my mind when I hear Romney's name. The alcoholic walrus is a new twist on it but still...

391 "Under no circumstances can we let the perfect be the enemy of the good."


Perhaps, but in this case we're letting the OK be the enemy of the intolerable.
 

"WE NEED OBAMA OUT OF OFFICE. PERIOD."

Romney is too high a price to pay. Obamacare remains, Romney becomes new "face" of the Right, and the country gets dragged further to the left.

No deal.

You want the conservative vote? Give us a conservative candidate. Otherwise, stop calling it a conservative party.

And stop trying to scare us. We lived through Carter, we'll live through Obama, yes even with a second term.

I'll hold my nose and vote for Newt. I will not vote for Romney under any circumstances. PERIOD.

392

We had ONE cacas and ONE primary when Perry was ordered to fall on his sword for NEWT.

And PERRY DID IT.

He was a good boy, he listened to us fucking imbeciles and did what we wanted. He was not an egomaniac on his life's quest for power.

I really hope he does very well in Texas in whatever he does.

It's not his fault the GOP writ large is roughly about as retarded as he is.

Fact of the matter is, for reasons I will never understand, he could not come back from the smoking wreckage of his campaign. He got out and endorsed Gingrich, and not vice-versa, because Gingrich unlike Perry seemingly has the ability to crack 5% of the primary vote.

393 This is such an absurd argument- "If they did well in the primary, that means they're electable!".

No, it doesn't.  Completely different electorate, and a very small slice of it at that.

So the fact that they can barely survive the primaries, if it all, is no cause for pause...?

Or is there a way, like a certain Senator from Alaska, to be able to win the General that doesn't require you to have won a primary first?

394

“…because we likes when he slaps around the hapless buffoon Juan Williams.”

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 12:28 PM (nj1bB)

 

You havenÂ’t noticed, but yes, yes we do like it when he slaps around Juan Williams or anyone else in the liberal media.  Most conservatives are tired of being called racists and are ready to reward candidates for throwing it right back in their faces.

This election is just as much running against the MSM as it is Obama.  If you understood that fact, you would be better able to find candidates to support that are viable.

395

The problem is one of trust.

If I dont trust a candidate, why would I care what they say in a campaign?

Both front runners are untrustworthy based on their past.

Just make sure to vote good people into office locally, and for congress. That is the Rs best hope this time around.

"Vote R, our guy sucks less than Obama" is not really that strong a message.

396

Obama is unelecatable, which is why he was elected president in 2008. Unelectable.

397 I thought it was about the party life in southern FL.

Here's a bit of information to turn your stomach. That lovely little burg in Central Florida, The Villages, the place where all the candidates go to woo the active over-60 crowd....

eat up with STDs.


Well, at least that was the nasty rumor for a while, although it may have been debunked.

Still. Gross, huh?!

398 I just have so much to be thankful for this primary season.

I'm really glad we managed to dodge the disgusting establishment RINO Pawlenty bullet. I mean, really, a guy with the balls to go to Iowa and say he's ending ethanol subsidies? Who would want that RINO as President? I'm so thankful to Michelle Bachmann and the True Conservative cohort for killing that candidacy. And a special thanks to Sarah Palin and her I'm-gonna-run-for-president-no-i-won't-yes-I-will-cocktease. I think it's wonderful that she decided to fuck up the Republican primary in order to sell more books, and that in no way proves everything the Democrats said about her. And I can't forget Pawlenty himself, for throwing in the towel in record time.

I'd also like to thank Rick Perry, who was actually one of the most conservative candidates. Thank you, Rick, for having the nomination handed to you on a silver platter and then eating said platter because you're a fucking moron. And, once again, thanks again to Romney's BFF, Michelle Bachmann, and the True Conservative cohort. Why would we want a candidate who is weak on immigration when we could have a candidate who is weak on absolutely everything? I know, crazy right?

Finally, I'd like to thank all of the other, decent candidates who decided not to run this year because they have a better shot in 2016. Really, how much damage could another 4 years of Obama (and 30 years of complete liberal control of the Supreme Court) cause? What's really important in all of this is your personal ambition, not the fate of the country. Thank you for keeping that in mind.

Now we've got a race between Romney and Gingrich, two sure winners. Obama is as weak as an incumbent can be, and I have full faith in the ability of the GOP to take him down.

Oh, and I can't actually bring myself to thank all the twits who say that they'll never vote for Romney, even in the general. I want to give you all a special go to hell from the depths of my soul. You're worse than a Democrat. At least the Democrat voter naively believes that another Obama term is in the country's best interest. You know damn well what 4 more years of Obama mean and you'll let it happen our of petulance and pride. Yes, I'm sure we'll get the second coming of Reagan in 2016 to make up for it. That worked so well in 2008, didn't it? Idiots.

399

377 Are you folks forgetting Newt's debate performances in which he prefaced most remarks by saying nice things about his Republican opponents and then focusing on putting forth a positive vision of America?

Perry did that too, Y-not.....several times in the debates, if you'll remember.

People say that "Perry wasn't prepared for the debates". ....He came prepared to debate the Issues, but he hadn't prepared himself for the full out attacks from his fellow candidates....from all sides. ....That is what threw him for a loop, I think.

Newt, on the other hand, has been getting attacked from all sides for years. .....He has had time to grow a thick armor and reflect on how best to fight back against it. .....Romney, on the other hand, retreats into his shell like a turtle, and hopes no one will notice. 

That was my impression of him. I think that's how he'd run in the general and I think it would be effective. 

I think so too. .....Newt is the "angry white guy". And there are a lot of those out there who can relate to Newt.....on both sides of the isle.

 

400 "MassCare has been grossly mismanaged and has failed in its nitended purpose, which was to provide accessible, low cost healthcare to the people of Massachusetts.  Obamacare has taken the MassCare model and inflated it to an even more unmanageable, bureaucratic, expensive, inefficient nightmare.  It needs to be junked and the conversation about healthcare costs need to start again from square one."   Why won't he at least give us that much?

Honestly, I don't know.  He has a reputation as a flip-flopper, what's one more?  Moreover, he could just say that he had a good idea that was managed wrong and cannot be managed right by any government.

What conservatives have been saying this cycle is: "Lie to us.  Please lie.  But at least treat us as something more than something unpleasant on the bottom of your shoe.  At least if you lie to us, it shows us that you care about us."

We are a marginalized people, beaten down by academia, popular culture, etc.  Throw us a bone.

401 WE NEED OBAMA OUT OF OFFICE. PERIOD.

THIS.

Thank you Ace for reminding us of that salient fact.

402 So the fact that they can barely survive the primaries, if it all, is no cause for pause...?

A little.  Not much though.  Performance in a primary is a lousy indicator of how well a candidate would do in the general.

403
On a conference call with reporters this morning, former Minnesota governor Tim Pawlenty took a swipe at Gingrich’s debating skills, saying what the GOP needed was the most electable candidate, not the best debater. Otherwise, the party would be just a “debating society.”




Remember back when Romney's awesome debating skills were one of the reasons to nominate him?  That was, what, a week ago?

404 "I honestly believe that Gingrich is an 80% likely loser, whereas Romney is a 55% likely winner. " If Romney loses to Newt in debates, how will he beat Obama in a debate?

405 386 The problem is that Newt ISN'T a rightwing extremist (as Perry was, almost).

It's that he's fairly moderate. And yet we're nominating the most antagoistic moderate we have, because we likes when he slaps around the hapless buffoon Juan Williams.

Posted by: ace at January 23, 2012 12:28 PM (nj1bB)

Bingo.

406

I'll hold my nose and vote for Newt. I will not vote for Romney under any circumstances. PERIOD.

Neither will I.

No one cares.

Just vote for who you're going to vote for.

I want to try the same thing you're trying, but it does not work. No one fucking cares. For every guy who will sit out romney, there's one who'll sit out gingrich, who'll sit out santorum, and 15 who'll sit out paul.

407

"But I can't look my kids in the eye "

I'm sure telling them you helped re elected Barak Hussein Obama will make the hurt go away, and make you feel better.

Vote your candidate in the primary, vote the nominee in the general. Or else you are supporting Obama.

 

408 McCain in 2008...Gingrich in 2012 How? How? My god, we better hope we hold onto the House.

409

People say that "Perry wasn't prepared for the debates". ....He came prepared to debate the Issues, but he hadn't prepared himself for the full out attacks from his fellow candidates....from all sides. ....That is what threw him for a loop, I think.

Posted by: wheatie at January 23, 2012 12:35 PM (ALwK/)

no, what threw him for a loop was thinking that calling people racist for disagreeing with him was a sure fire way to win the nomination

410 A little.  Not much though.  Performance in a primary is a lousy indicator of how well a candidate would do in the general.

Aside from the fact that M*k*sk* aside, nobody who loses the primaries wins the generals, of course.

Proof of the pudding, and all.

I guess we'll see, then.

411 This election is just as much running against the MSM as it is Obama.  If you understood that fact, you would be better able to find candidates to support that are viable.

Didn't get the Memo.  Here, I was thinking it was about getting back the reins of power, undoing as much Obama damage as possible and moving things in the rightward direction, fixing the economy, putting Americans back to work, and resuming American prosperity. 

Now that I know it's supposed to be a big "FUCK YOU" to Brian Williams, GO NEWT!

412 Rush is telling Newt to Fish or Cut Bait;  Use it or Lose it; Put up or Shut up

explain his 'anti-conservative statements' --- good idea

413 And yes, I'll vote for Romney in the general election in a heartbeat, over the alternative.

414

We had ONE cacas and ONE primary when Perry was ordered to fall on his sword for NEWT.

And PERRY DID IT.

I am very conflicted about Perry. I was a huge believer and furious that he dropped out prior to the most conservative primary to date. Then again, either he hired great handlers and refused to listen to them or he hired lousy handlers and did listen to them. Either way, it dos not bode well for making me feel good about a man who made so many mistakes in so short a period of time.

When he went after Romney on Bain, it turned my stomach. It was not a good argument and, further, it was out of character for him...and it showed. It revealed a man who is prone to mistakes and makes me question my own judgement for being so loyal to him.

415

To me, it seems that Ace is saying that Romney's path to victory hinges on him becoming someone <i>other than Mitt Romney.</i>

I don't think that's very likely or realistic. Gingrich has baggage, but they're known quantities and he's pretty adept at defending himself and counter-attacking. You know what and who he is. It'll be enough to win or it won't. I'm positive that at least, he'll do his best to keep the focus on Obama's failures.

Mitt needs a lot of tinkering to broaden his appeal. Is he capable of that? Is he even amenable to that? My guess is both no and no. He's the gal I'll take home at last call if I HAVE to.

 

416 No, it doesn't. Completely different electorate, and a very small slice of it at that. Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 23, 2012 12:27 PM (SY2Kh) The 2012 electorate is likely to be much like the 2010 electorate. Why would it pick Obama over Newt or Mitt?

417

@Ace and everyone else that understands that we are at a crucial point in history regarding out of control spending by our governments at the federal, state and local levels...

The correct answer to whom you will not vote for in the 2012 presidential election regarding Newt or Mitt or Santorum or Paul is......

Obama.

I could throw in Olympia Snowe in that mix and the correct answer would still be Obama.    

We are at a crossroads folks and more and more people that consider themselves independents or moderates are begining to understand this.  What is going on in Greece and other European basket cases in being talked about a lot (on blogs and in the traditional media outlets) and it's no big stretch to imagine it happening here and the reality is there is no one to bail us out as we have bailed out other countries (by the way- this needs to be said by every republican in America on a daily basis)...  We are truly boned if our government doesn't start addressing over spending issues and I for one understand that Obama and the dems have absolutely no interest in reducing the size and scope of the federal government.  People of all political stripes that work for a living will understand the need to tighten the belt or purse strings when you've run up a charge card full of massive debt.  Lets hope in 2012 the workers still outnumber and out-vote those living on the government teat.... otherwise... DOOM.

418 no, what threw him for a loop was thinking that calling people racist for disagreeing with him was a sure fire way to win the nomination

He didn't call us racists. He called us heartless.

419 I made out with girls on couches, but none of them were Nancy Pelosi

Newt will stick his tongue in anything to massage his ego.    Remember the stink he made about Clinton keeping him at the back of Air Force One ??

420

Thank you, Rick, for having the nomination handed to you on a silver platter and then eating said platter because you're a fucking moron

Translation: Fuck you for not being good enough for us. We like to fire people who do not service us.

If you aren't perfect, fuck off because we losers are too good for you.

You have to beg if you want to hold the infinite esteem of the fucking retard who loses.

421 If Romney loses to Newt in debates, how will he beat Obama in a debate?

Posted by: cherry ð at January 23, 2012 12:37 PM (OhYCU)

Yeah that's a problem because Newt has proven to be every bit of a progressive populist that Obama is and Romney didn't have a good answer for the left wing attacks from Newt. So that's a problem.

Newt and Obama in a debate can chit chat about the unfairness in America, how bad big business is to the workers and their mutual adoration for the Health Care Indidvidual Mandate.

What?  You don't think Obama's crew is going to run a continuos loop of Gingrich's love for the national individual mandate on MTP? You're dreaming.

422

My order of preference:

 

1. Palin

2. Perry

3. Gingrich

423 If Romney loses to Newt in debates, how will he beat Obama in a debate?

Posted by: cherry π at January 23, 2012 12:37 PM (OhYCU)

There will be no debates.

If Newt is the nominee, there will be zero.

If Mitt is the nominee, there will be no more than two and one of them will be rigged to Obama's favor (say, Chris Matthews as the moderator).

No debates.

If Newt's the nominee, Obama will have zero incentive to do it and nobody. will. care.  They'll focus on how repulsive Newt is and call it great political strategy.

If there are no debates, people will not dwell on the absence of debates when they go into the voting booth, they will base their decision on (negative) ads.

424

You know, I'm really very very certain that 'any moron' would do better than these candidates and sew up this easy peasy election.

Please try. Please please try.

I can't wait to see you sobbing amongst the media wreckage while we all mock your whore grandma and your Sophomore year lit class scores.

425 Romney is a Democrat . . . he didn't make my list at all.

426 That's the bottom line. No way around it. Posted by: Soap MacTavish at January 23, 2012 12:41 PM (vbh31) Yep.

427

421.....no, what threw him for a loop was thinking that calling people racist for disagreeing with him was a sure fire way to win the nomination 

Well yeah. He was flailing around and saying stupid stuff like that.....because I doubt that he had ever had to defend that 'regular tuition rate for children of illegals' down in Texas.....the majority of Texans don't have a problem with that.

428 Rush is channeling Frankie Goes to Hollywood

relax.............

429 The 2012 electorate is likely to be much like the 2010 electorate. Why would it pick Obama over Newt or Mitt?

Posted by: eman at January 23, 2012 12:41 PM (3VSsp)

Because presidential elections are much more about intangibles and personality than House elections.  The electorate didn't get all conservative in 2010.  They're scared of Obama, but they can be even more scared of Newt.

430 "Oh, and I can't actually bring myself to thank all the twits who say that they'll never vote for Romney, even in the general. I want to give you all a special go to hell from the depths of my soul. You're worse than a Democrat. At least the Democrat voter naively believes that another Obama term is in the country's best interest."

At least we don't naively believe that a Romney Presidency would be same thing.

So, you know, fuck you too, asshole. Right to the depths of your soul.

431 My order of preference:

 

1. Palin

2. Perry

3. Gingrich

Since (1) and (2) aren't running, which one do you think (3) will nominate as VP if he gets the nod?

432

My order of preference:

 1. Palin

2. Perry

3. Gingrich

Teh Fred

Perry

Romney

433 "I want to try the same thing you're trying, but it does not work. No one fucking cares. For every guy who will sit out romney, there's one who'll sit out gingrich, who'll sit out santorum, and 15 who'll sit out paul."

At least what you have there is 15 reasonably sane people.

434 Well yeah. He was flailing around and saying stupid stuff like that.....because I doubt that he had ever had to defend that 'regular tuition rate for children of illegals' down in Texas.....the majority of Texans don't have a problem with that.

Again, we value states' rights just as long as they do what we want them to do!

435

" He called us heartless."

And apologized. And his supporters left for Cain. Santorum. and now Gingrich.

Ol' Mitt every apologize for giving the left the blue print for Obamacare?

436

This idea of choosing a nominee on electability is serious flawed.  Whoever wins the nomination, if he loses, we will constantly hear about how we were warned that he was unelectable, and how we could have won if the we had chosen the other candidate.  The truth is no one knows. 

This is a good old fashion primary fight with two flawed candiates (all candidates have flaws), who appeal to two very different wings of the party right now.  Let them compete for our vote.  For every argument made in favor of Newt's electability over Romney, we can probably find some historical evidence to suggest otherwise.  Same with Romeny over Newt. 

If we want to blame someone, let's blame Mitch Daniels.  He could have, or should have fused the two wings together. 

437 >>>If Romney loses to Newt in debates, how will he beat Obama in a debate?

1.) The general electorate judges victory/loss in a debate on completely different criteria than a rabidly conservative GOP primary electorate.  In the primaries, the angriest guy throwing out the most red meat is going to win right now.  In a general election debate, that guy loses, hard.  Why don't you grasp this?  Primaries are an entirely different universe than general elections.

2.) What makes you think debates are the be-all and end-all of general elections for President?  They're not.  Bush squarely lost every one of his debates to Kerry, and still won the election. 

438 Newt will stick his tongue in anything to massage his ego.    Remember the stink he made about Clinton keeping him at the back of Air Force One ??

Was that really necessary?!

439 The 2012 electorate is likely to be much like the 2010 electorate. Why would it pick Obama over Newt or Mitt?

Because a Presidential election is much different and of far higher stakes than a midterm.

Take for example the "Republican Revolution" midterm results that brought Newt to the speakership.  Didn't prevent Clinton from winning in a landslide in the following general election.

440

" He called us heartless."

And apologized. And his supporters left for Cain. Santorum. and now Gingrich.

Ol' Mitt every apologize for giving the left the blue print for Obamacare?


Dude! I was/am a huge Perry fan. I was correcting an inaccuracy.

441 Because presidential elections are much more about intangibles and personality than House elections. The electorate didn't get all conservative in 2010. They're scared of Obama, but they can be even more scared of Newt. Posted by: AmishDude at January 23, 2012 12:44 PM (T0NGe) Oh, that is just silly.

442

If Newt is the nominee, it will be the first time in my adult life I will not be voting. Bob Dole and McCain were bad enough. But I can't look my kids in the eye and tell them I voted for someone with no moral or ethical values, especially since he has no chance in November.

So you'd rather look your kids in the eye and say you did nothing to stop Obama from a 2nd term and that you're sorry he fucked up everything so bad they can't ever have a better life than you?

As someone said the other day, I'm not voting for Jesus, I'm voting for President. 

443

Since none of these candidates are the Purity candidate,  can we dispense with the "perfect being the enemy of the good" self immolation/flagellation?

 

Thank you so much.

 

That is all.

444

 "In a general election debate, that guy loses, hard.  Why don't you grasp this? "

Why don't you prove your statement with specific examples? Nothing over 30-40 years ago, since the electorate is somewhat different.

 

445

"Take for example the "Republican Revolution" midterm results that brought Newt to the speakership.  Didn't prevent Clinton from winning in a landslide in the following general election."

See Dole, Bob for the explanation.

446 The 2012 electorate is likely to be much like the 2010 electorate. Why would it pick Obama over Newt or Mitt?

The 2012 electorate is not at all likely to be much like the 2010 electorate.  2010 was a midterm election, with substantially lower turnout and a markedly higher level of GOP participation relative to Democrats.  With Newt on the ballot to depress GOP turnout and revitalize Democrats, the electorate could well look like 2008 on steroids.  That's why many people who aren't merely idiots are deeply worried about the GOP actually losing the House with Newt as nominee.

447

There is a type of guy who typically wins and a type of guy who doesn't.

I didn't want the RINO guy.

But I NEED OBAMA OUT OF OFFICE.

Under no circumstances can we let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

WE NEED OBAMA OUT OF OFFICE. PERIOD.

No, NOT fucking period, Ace.  We need someone to undo what Obama's done, and then do what needs to be done to fix all the problems Obama's ignored.

The people you insult get that.  You don't.  Why not?

The voters seem to want someone who will LEAD like they want, not just someone who beats Obama, which only gets us back to the peach days of 2008, which weren't fucking peachy.

The Tea Party voters aren't scare that Romney won't beat Obama.  They're scared that he'll LEAD like Obama- that is lead not much at all.

Why is that fear irrational?  Why does it make them flighty or desperate for seeking alternatives for months?  Months BEFORE an election, before any votes were ever cast?

448 Take for example the "Republican Revolution" midterm results that brought Newt to the speakership. Didn't prevent Clinton from winning in a landslide in the following general election. Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 23, 2012 12:48 PM (SY2Kh) So, having someone similar to Bob Dole as this year's GOP nominee is a stupid move. Putting the architect of the 1994 victory in the spot is better.

449 " With Newt on the ballot to depress GOP turnout " But.. but.. I thought Newt was whipping up the base with his red meat? I'm confused.

450 Posted by: Jeff B. at January 23, 2012 12:52 PM (23Ios) Seriously?

451

451.....Bush squarely lost every one of his debates to Kerry, and still won the election. 

But Bush was the 'likable' guy. .....Kerry was the Northeastern elitist scum guy.

Bad argument, Jeff B. ....Your guy Romney is so much like Kerry, he could be a clone. 

452

"  That's why many people who aren't merely idiots are deeply worried about the GOP actually losing the House with Newt as nominee."

You are right Jeff, they aren't idiots. They are retards and mental defectives.

453

Oh your love for me is strong, Entropy. Want to make out behind the latest Klan Rally? HEHEHE

After we spray the vinegar, of course. Must get rid o the chemtrails so our testes work. HEHEHE.

454 Newt supporters are emotional retards.

Funny thing is....I don't really know of any Newt "supporters" per se.  He doesn't even have a conglomeration of bots that have been given some stupid nickname....Newtbots just don't exist. 

What I find, if anything, is tepid support for him over Romney.  At best.  As in, they both suck ballz.  Romney sucks a wee bit more, so Newt gets the vote.  At least, that was my less than scientific criteria when I cast my vote for the fat, doughy, white bombast this past Saturday. 

Pence/Jindal/Liz Cheney 2012....please Lord!!  Save us from this November's ballot:

A.  Trainwreck
B.  Total Fucking Destruction of the United States and becoming completely awash in irreversible Socialism

Guess I'll choose A. 

455

Jeff B.,

You're just an establishment country-club hack.

 

PS: Buy my latest book. Also go to lifelock.com and enter keyword MARK.

 

 

456

On Newt, observed Friday night: Having a few drinks after dinner. Two ladies, both very well dressed, chatting at the bar. Both attractive, very well educated, and comfortable life styles. Neither are libs with any particular like for Obama, both married to guys with small businesses, and both very concerned about the state of the economy.

The silent big screen TV shows a picture of Newt smiling. They look up and one says, "What do you think about this?" They both focus on the screen for a while. The other one says, "I just don't want him to be the President of this country." The first woman nods her head and says, "No way." Then it's back to Friday night conversation.

Only point is, there is something visceral there with Newt. Mock it all you want, but if he is the candidate in the general he's going to have troubles that transcend way beyond his political views.

 

457 So, having someone similar to Bob Dole as this year's GOP nominee is a stupid move. Putting the architect of the 1994 victory in the spot is better.

None of the candidates in the '96 race would've done much (if any) better than Dole.  Clinton was practically unbeatable, and everybody knew it.

458 >>>Seriously?

Yes, seriously.  And again: you aren't going to believe it's possible until it happens.  But when it does, don't pretend that it was all just because of some evil RINO GOP Establishment Conspiracy to tank Gingrich in order to preserve their insidious grip upon the reins of power or whatever.  Newt is poison for us.  His candidacy is going to be stillborn in the general election, short of nuclear war.

Will I vote for him?  Sure.  But he's going to drag us all down.

459 Why don't you prove your statement with specific examples? Nothing over 30-40 years ago, since the electorate is somewhat different.

Well, I suppose we could go waaaaaay back to 2004.  Bush wasn't particularly popular and was very vulnerable, but the Dems nominated an unlikeable elitist douche which cost them the election.

460

463 -

Yeah, that's what I'm not getting too.  If Romney gets the mods by being moderate, and Newt off-puts the base by sitting on a couch, how do our magic 8-ball readers conclude that Mitt brings teh electoral fruit juice, and Newt kills the bunny?

It gets confusing.  Until you realize Newt is fat, and Mitt has good hair.  And doesn't cheat on his wife... all 9 of them.  Then it all makes sense. 

Image, as they say, is everything. 

461

472.....None of the candidates in the '96 race would've done much (if any) better than Dole. Clinton was practically unbeatable, and everybody knew it.

The way I remember it......is that people like Rush were constantly saying "Anyone can beat Clinton", just like they've been saying about the JEF. .....A lot of people stayed home, and just weren't energized to go vote for Dole, because they thought that he would surely win against the womanizing hillbilly.

462

473 -

Poison, stillborn, nuclear, drag.

You are an emotional ninny. You offer no logic or reason, only your feelings.  I'm glad I disagree with you on essentially everything, because if I didn't, I'd be questioning my own manhood, and not just yours.

463

Bob Dole wasn't great, but maybe some of you are fogetting this...

William Clinton Albert Gore Jr. Democratic 47,400,125 49.23% 379 70.4% Robert Dole Jack Kemp Republican 39,198,755 40.72% 159 29.6% H. Ross Perot Pat Choate Reform 8,085,402 8.40% 0 0.0%

Yeah, remember that 3rd guy who won 8.5% of the vote.  Vote that likely would have gone to Dole.  The same 3rd guy who fucked it up for Bush I in 92.

464 I don't know how to say this gently, but if preserving the GOP nominee's electability was the blog's raison d'etre, it blew it big time.  This blog was front and center along with most other conservative blogs in spending an inordinate amount of time covering every smear put out about every candidate.  So it seems a bit much to hear whining about voters not getting in line behind the guy who some have deemed most electable now. 

465

476 -

Yeah, that's what I remember too.  Dole stood there with that cross look on his face, and campaigned under the theme of "come on you idiots, seriously? You want that creep over me?" Needless to say, it didn't work.

466

@471....RM,

Nice little story. ....And total bullshit. ....How do you know by looking at them that those 2 women are "both married to guys with small businesses"?

And if that is true, then those husbands will be voting against the JEF, no matter who is running against him.......and they will likely vote the same way.

467 The way I remember it......is that people like Rush were constantly saying "Anyone can beat Clinton", just like they've been saying about the JEF. .....A lot of people stayed home, and just weren't energized to go vote for Dole, because they thought that he would surely win against the womanizing hillbilly.

That's why I don't take political advice from entertainers.

Due to the state of the economy, none of the candidates were going to beat Clinton.  Some blame Perot, but Clinton almost had 50% even with the 3rd party candidate in the race.

It's folly to believe that the '96 primary runner up Pat Buchanan would've fared better.

468

@408

LOL.   Well said Justin.   Well said.

469 Yeah, remember that 3rd guy who won 8.5% of the vote.  Vote that likely would have gone to Dole.  The same 3rd guy who fucked it up for Bush I in 92.

Not all of that 8.5%, no.  Clinton would've still won whether Perot was in the race or not, and regardless of whether Dole, Buchanan or Forbes won the nomination.

If it was a weak GOP primary field that cycle, it was because none of the top tier talent wanted to run and lose to Clinton.

470 I'm supporting  Gingrich for a couple reasons:

1) Jerry Pournelle knows him personally and believes he would be good for the country (http://jerrypournelle.com/jerrypournelle.c/chaosmanor/). I respect him.

The whole "people on the moon" schtick that makes Gingrich unacceptable to others *I* consider a plus.   The country needs a man with vision, a vision of something OTHER than the welfare state of Hope and Change.   We don't have Reagan, but I think Gingrich fits that bill better than any of the other contenders. Except Ron Paul, of course.   We all know why Ace won't nibble on that hook under any circumstances.

2) Their records.   Gingrich has the Contract with America under his belt.  Romney gave us Romneycare. 

That's it. I've got a choice between a paler version of Obama with an R after his name and a candidate that has a proven record of doing good things for conservatism AND a man with ideas.    So I'll take one order of Gingrich please.

Of course, here in Virginia I don't get the option of voting for him in the primary. But I will support him in the general IF he wins the nomination.

471 Wheatie, cause one was my wife, and the other and her husband are close friends. I was just observing for a minute. I'll vote for the repub one way or the other. But don't bet on the other three feeling that way. And maybe slow up on calling "total BS" when you don't know the full context. 

472

In 1996.....I remember Dole going around right before the election, saying "Where is the outrage?!", with regard to Clinton's scandals.

He was right. People just weren't outraged about Clinton's bimbo erruptions. .....The Dims had been shrugging them off and saying "So what? It's only sex".

Then, they did that again with the Lewinsky erruption. ....There was more outrage over that. ....But they still parroted the "So what? It's only sex!" meme. And it worked so well, that the Rinos in the senate were affraid to impeach him.

So now.....we have Gingrich as the possible nominee. Personally, I would love to see Newt come out and throw that back at the Dims, if they bring up the Infidelity issue....."So what? It's only sex!"

473

486....And maybe slow up on calling "total BS" when you don't know the full context. 

Then add the context next time. ....Had it been added in that story, it wouldn't have smacked of being Romneybot BS.

474 Regarding the 2000 presidential debates,  there was a great article by Mark Steyn during those debates.  He made random calls to phone numbers across the country,  and the general response was this:

Who won the debate? Gore
Who are you voting for? Bush

This was because no matter how cogent the point Al Gore made,  he was, at heart,  an obnoxious, bullying buffoon.  Bush won the election by being pleasant, not blowing questions,  and that nod and shrug when Gore tried to sneak up on him on the stage.

LIKEABILITY.  I cannot emphasize this enough.  We have at least 25% of the fall electorate who treat this as an American Idol contest.  The MOST LIKEABLE candidate in the general election will win.  It will not be based on anything BUT that.

Why do you think Obama is singing Al Green songs? Emphasizing his daughters? Sending Michelle out to appear on Nick Jr. in support of military families?

Somebody in the RNC better wake up.  And regardless of who gets the nomination, beating up on John King or Juan Williams isn't going to make the general public think a candidate is swell.  Those Idol voters LIKE Juan and John.

475 489:The MOST LIKEABLE candidate in the general election will win.  It will not be based on anything BUT that.

I dont' think this is completely true, but I do think it's more true than I'd like.

But if it is indeed true, then our country is boned anyway, since it means that our educational culture has reached a tipping point such that successive generations will care less and less.

476 #490  That is why conservatives have to make an effort to be likeable.

The larger electorate isn't paying attention, yet.  So Mitt needs to develop some personality and charm,  and Newt needs to lose some weight, try not to be so angry, and get Callista a different hairstyle.

I am sort of like Cassandra here.  I speak,  but no one listens.

477

On the one hand, Gingrich got a temporary bump for spanking the media in a charismatic manner. On the other hand, Romney has lost his "presumptive nominee" status, and is a bit "wooden".

Seems like there's a decent bet this will head back toward the status quo, but you never know.

478 221 >>192 Had an interesting conversation with my ex-husband, who is a Democrat. How old is he?  Did he live through Contract with America?  Posted by: Y-not, Newt leaner at January 23, 2012 11:49 AM (5H6zj) He's 49, so yes. But he is an ex for a reason...lol.

479 "Nice to live in a free country"

The other day there was a picture of this happening to Rick Santorum.  Has it happened with Romney yet?

480

Miss Marple,

I agree with you. .....And we are totally screwed, because we no longer have a "likeable" candidate in the race. .....None of the remaining candidates are likeable.

The South is not going to go for a Northeastern carpetbagger elitist like Romney. ....SC is a preview of this. .....Newt has a lot of baggage, and isn't handsome. But he is at least saying things that are resonating with everyday folks.

481 @491:

On grounds of likability, I think it's obvious the match goes to Romney over Newt.  And I think everyone knows that, so all the people here can stop calling Newt-supporters idiots because of that.

The problem is, where has "likability" got us in the past.  You cite Bush as being likable.  yeah, and we got tons of federal spending for 'compassionate' conservatism and practically no media pushback.  McCain the "war hero" was portrayed in the media as a cool dude in 2000 and the 2008 primaries...and then he was nominated and they turned it around.

Don't get me wrong; I'd be grateful to have Bush back.  But when I look at Obama's spending now, and I hear the media and Democrat chorus drone on and on about Bush's spending increases, a significant part of me says that we can't just let that happen again.

And fine, I guess i'm not certain that Gingrich won't stab us in the back.  But neither do I know that Romney won't gladhandle us into further statism.  Given those options, I'd rather have someone who at least seems willing to make strong statements against the media onslaught--not as as angry, vindictive "red meat", but as an indication that they won't just let the Liberal narrative characterize and dominate everything without at least presenting the other side in defense.

Time and again on this site and other conservative sites, I read people complaining about how Republicans are always snapping defeat from the jaws of victory by pushing a policy hard and then withdrawing support at the last minute (cf. the Christmas payroll tax break extension as the most recent example).  I remember reading stuff like, "they were winning, why didn't they stick with it?" or "why didn't they make this particular argument or use the facts that are on our side?".  For all his randomness and scatter, I actually see gingrich doing that in the debates, and no only doing it cogently, but specifically drawing the line between those facts and liberal policies in a rhetorically compelling way (cf. "food stamp president"). 

But I mean, look at us:  We're reduced to snarking at each other about bedroom peccadilloes.  WTF?  Gingrich may have tossed out angry red meat by biting off john King's head, but...didn't he deserve it for starting the debate with such an inconsequential issue?  Remember when Fred Thompson refused to participate in the show of hands because (and he's right) that's a fucking stupid way to plumb a candidate's opinion?  And if no one is there to say it, and all we're concerned about it likability and fluff, well...then that's what we'll get in the oval office regardless of which party wins.

482 495I agree with you. .....And we are totally screwed, because we no longer have a "likeable" candidate in the race. .....None of the remaining candidates are likeable.

Waitasec...how "likable" is the economy now?  How "likable" are our job prospects?  how "likable" is our energy policy?

Obama wins if he can keep focus on "likability" and nonsense issues.  He loses if we have a candidate who can compellingly keep focus on the issues.  I don't believe American voters are so dumb that they're going to ignore the issues in this kind of economy if there's actually someone talkign about them and hammering home the facts 24/7.  If, however, we ignore the facts and try to be nice and likable and play the media game like McCain did, then I can see problems for us.

483

497  Waitasec...how "likable" is the economy now? How "likable" are our job prospects? how "likable" is our energy policy? 

Hey I hear ya, Jeremia.

Which is why I am trending towards Newt. .....With Newt, at least he will keep hammering at this very thing. .....Romney seems to want to just stand there and bask in his "inevitableness". 

484 You know, there's a reason why Thomas Paine never held any elected positions...

485

I told the Tea Party to stop eliminating candidates based on weak-ass reasons, hunting for perfect fidelity.

----------

Yes, the Tea Party eliminated Rick Perry. You got it.

The Tea Party, supposedly, eliminates candidates due to purity. Rick Perry wasn't eliminated due to impurity, he was eliminated for debate screw-ups that had nothing to do with ideology. How, exactly, does this have anything to do with the Tea Party in particular as opposed to just the general population as a whole reacting poorly to Perry's debates performances?

486 Question: How is Romney basking in his 'inevitability?' He sure wouldn't be releasing his taxes under pressure if he was basking. He sure wouldn't be attacking Gingrich if he was basking. If he were basking, he'd be watching the primaries from his house in NH. Or, perhaps, just attacking Obama. So, is attacking Obama basking? The man's campaigning; the only people that could be said to be basking are the media types that favored Romney.

487 ROMNEY YEAH BANG BANG ROMNEY WOOOOOO BANG BANG BANG YEEEEEHA ROMNEY

488 _{^{Beck Reacts to Gingrich Calling His Criticism ‘Bologna’: ‘The Audio Speaks for Itself’}}

Heard parts of this this morning.  It's worth listening to.

489 The media will relentlessly attack our nominee no matter who we nominate at the convention.  I want a nominee who will push back against Obama and the media.  Newt fights back! 

490 Hannity playing the sore losers whining yesterday.  He started with Christie.  I really like Christie but the more I see of his behavior the more I think he's just a super sized version of a political shill only out for himself.

Even Carville gave Newt credit for his win, in a classy way.  Politics back in the day must have been way more classy and civilized than it is today.  Christie's words, when romney passes over him for VP, will come back to haunt him when beck and others play them endlessly someday.

491 rabidly conservative GOP primary electorate Posted by: Jeff B. at January 23, 2012 12:48 PM (23Ios) 1. Call the entire GOP electorate "rabid" 2. ????? 3. Win the GOP primary

492 The problem with Romney is Romneycare and his unwillingness to denounce it root and branch.  This is a big deal for me, I think Romneycare will be made to look just like Obamacare by the MFM and too many voters will be confused in the general and just vote for the likable and charming Mr. Obama.

I have supported not-Romney candidates and will continue to do so because even if they can not win the general they will cause Romney to move right.  If Romney is the nominee I will vote for him.

BTW- when Miss Marple speaks I always listen! 
BTW2- G-d Bless Ace and the HQ!!

493 people'd rather pick a conviction type than a barely more exciting/younger "respectable" Bob Dole. i get it. the problem is there is no real happy Reaganesque warrior to fill that role. Gingrich in this cycle seems more like someone you'd want as a pundit damning the Democrats than someone who can get substantial non-Republican votes.

494

No sooner did "those Tea Party types" re-invigorate the process and sweep Republicans back into a House majority than they were patted on the heads, and told to go back and sit down, thank you, we'll decide on your candidate, and I hope you like milquetoast.

Romney can't win. Get it through your collective skull everybody. Barack Obama was wildly popular right up until the minute he did what? Nationalized healthcare. People said quite clearly, no, we don't want that; we want you to do something about healthcare cost.  That was the exact moment when the nation turned against Obama, and he's been wildly unpopular since.

How can Romney ever differentiate himself from Obama when he himself is saddled with RomneyCare? He can't.

Romney has been tripped up by tax returns and Bain capital. Weren't these the same issues for which he was unprepared, oh I don't know, like when he was running for governor twenty years ago? Still not ready to deal with them? What does that tell you about his "electability". He outspent Gingrich 10-1 in South Carolina: look what that got him.

Newt will Florida and the nomination, but if even he doesn't, he will perform an invaluable service and force either a late entry or a brokered convention. Either way, no Romney.

So get used to it.

Oh, and by the way, Gingrich makes an awesome candidate.

newt will win Florida and the nomination.

495 461 ... We need someone to undo what Obama's done, and then do what needs to be done to fix all the problems Obama's ignored.

Roger that.

496 How has Romney NOT listened to the base?  Whenever he pushes a conservative issue, all we hear is "He's a flip flopper!" meanwhile Newt's ideological sins are far worst than as Romney's :FEDERAL mandates, global warming crusades with Nancy Pelosi,  lobbyist for Freddie Mac, etc.

Look, I completely agree that I would like a more conservative candidate than Mitt Romney, but this is not the way to do it.  We're looking down the barrel at a Christine O'Donnell candidacy here that is going to put the GOP in the wilderness for a long time as Obama turns us into Europe.

Right now, my goal is to stop the bleeding, we're in a hostage situation where a lot of innocent people could get hurt, all because some want a ridiculous Jerry Springer moment at the debates.

497 Someone has been monkeying with the comments.

All my paragraph breaks, in this morning,  are gone this evening.

What's up with that?

498 >>>Someone has been monkeying with the comments.

>>>All my paragraph breaks, in this morning, are gone this evening.

>>>What's up with that?

It's Juicer's fault.  He keeps putting HTML into the "Name" box and posting.  It's destroying the blog.  And since he hates Ace he doesn't particularly care.

499

When both wings of the party decide to dig their heels in and try to "win" -- and it's not a win, that's why it's in quotes -- rather than seeking to compromise with each other, we all lose

 

>>> Here's the thing.......there really are two different agendas at work here, with two different timelines.

The regular GOP agenda is to get rid of Obama NOW. I sympathize with your aims. Tea Party agenda is longer term - to fix the problems within the GOP so the GOP can fix the problems with America.  So I'm taking a long view. TP is working from grassroots up, we realize it will be a longer process than 1 electoral cycle. We also recognize that the worse things get, the more our message will resonate.

YOU on the other hand....well, you need our help NOW. In other words, you need us more than we need you right now. So STFU and start catering a bit more to us and earn that which you want.

Because I tell you, I have no real use for Romney also, he won't fix anything.  So why does he deserve my vote? Because Obama is worse? Meh. Not good enough anymore.