"We're just washing the inside of the bottom of the ship."

-Titanic crewmember to frightened passenger

>>>Cash? More like precious metals.

Keep your precious metals stored in shell casings.

Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at December 11, 2012 11:43 AM (uiI1p)

Old and busted: LiB

New Hawtness: Charred sinders from unstoppable inferno are good for filtering moonshine.

Posted by: alex of the questions at December 11, 2012 11:48 AM (uFY4s)

I have a couple. They are old but good.

If they want to blame it on all the talk of the phony phiscal cliph, that's better... how? 

The dems own the  fiscal cliff talk, and now people are worried about it.  You don't get to have it both ways.  I know you're used to doing so, but eventually even sheeple will stop doing exactly what you tell them, and just start jumping off the cliff all by themselves. 

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 11, 2012 11:42 AM (GFM2b) 

---------

Ha

Ha Ha

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

"who even owns a pitchfork anymore" - I own 4 or 5 myself. 

just sayin'

28 -

That's an interesting interpretation, and I don't disagree, but the simple alternate view is that  our Iraq adventure CAUSED all the unrest in the area, and Iraq is not participating now because they're too exhausted from all the war we gave them.

See, still Bush's fault. 

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 11, 2012 11:57 AM (e0xKF)

Heh. Guaranteed way not to see any squirrels. Go hunting with plans for Brunswick stew. Works every time.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 11, 2012 11:49 AM (79ueO)

The decline in health insurance premiums will occur in the out years (like entitlement reform) and the savings we will see from ten years of beneficent IPAB rulings will more than offset the "temporary" cost increase you think you are seeing now (since health care has been vastly improved under Obamacare, the quality of care you will be getting is much more cost-effective thus it is really costing you LESS than before).

The IT guy changed the TV in the break room to The Price Is Right because, quote, "I hate CNN. I want my lunch to be a happy place."

If he really wanted lunch to be happy, he'd stock  the fridge  with PBR  and Valu-Rite.

Pro-tip:  VR is slightly less volatile when kept cold.

Posted by: ette at December 11, 2012 12:05 PM (nqBYe)

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Of course they will....... all the way to the camps.

See you there.

Amusingly, the tiny apartments were $1,600 a month. The houses were around $20,000 and you weren't allowed to live in them full time (zoning or some other regulation).

Were they talking about a place with no winter (Cali & the south) or in a large city?

Because in a small town where ice can actually form outside, small space makes Jack a little bit CRAZY!

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at December 11, 2012 12:06 PM (J6kXj)

Based on what I've read, private sector deleveraging is ongoing.  It's public sector debt that's piled higher and deeper.  The private sector demand destruction is why the much feared inflation hasn't been an issue.  Velocity of  money is at an all time low right now.  Thus, a huge increase in the supply of money is neutralized.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 11, 2012 12:10 PM (HDgX3)

Yeah - right?  After all, we're told by our libtarded friends that taxes have no impact on economic behavior.  Hmmm... something not lining up here...

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 11, 2012 12:10 PM (HDgX3)

Comrade, you missed the chapter where it clearly says that increasing taxes on the right people is the answer to everything!

Posted by: Hrothgar - LIB or SMOD (for the Children) at December 11, 2012 12:08 PM (Cnqmv)

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at December 11, 2012 12:13 PM (J6kXj)

Black Orchid, You have lived my life!

Posted by: rockmom at December 11, 2012 12:08 PM (qE3AR)

________________________________________________

I call BS on the low interest hurts bank profitability item. Banks make a profit on the spread between what interest they charge for loans vs what interest they give to depositors. If the spread is between 0 and 3 or 10 and 13 the profit is the same for banks. 

I agree 0% interest rates are not sustainable and housing will crash again in the not too distant future when rates go above 0%. But that still doesn't mean banks right now aren't making a killing in the housing market. Even if 0 homes are sold in the next year, there will be hundreds of billions of mortgages re-financed.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 11, 2012 12:17 PM (Hx5uv)

Also, living in caves is more natural than living in an enclosed space.

very true, Reactionary - I'm talking about individuals and families, households - they are not deleveraging

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at December 11, 2012 12:14 PM (J6kXj)

As of September they still were.

If interested you can check out the article "Household Deleveraging Continued In Q2 2012" on Seeking Alpha.

Ironically, this is a terrible time to deleverage unless you have job worries.  If I could I would borrow as much as possible at these absurdly low rates and buy various blue chip dividend payers and large-cap master limited partnerships.  Alas, I am not connected to the right folks.

You don't just have to hang out at coffee shops.  Diners are great places to hang out as well.  If you're as handsome and strapping as me, you'll be giving out lap time to hot biker chicks in no time.

But you wingnuts aren't as handsome or as strapping as me.  So suck it, losers.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 11, 2012 12:15 PM (HDgX3)

I agree with nearly your entire post, but I take issue with the idea that interest rates can't remain at zero.  They can, and will, because we don't need to borrow money from anyone but the Fed to finance deficits.  In the end, the use of an interest rate above zero is simply something the Fed uses to put the brakes on the economy and prevent an over-heat.  No threat of that any time soon!

Posted by: kbdabear at December 11, 2012 12:20 PM (wwsoB)

There's some truth here.  I dunno about the Chinese, but many REITs are buying up huge volumes of depressed housing to turn into rental property. 

#111 The personal toll of this recession is serious, and it aggravates me to no end that nobody will talk about it.  I have a form of PTSD after being out of work for three years.  Even after over a year in my new job and a pretty big honking bonus I just got yesterday, I suffer from all sorts of stress-related aches and pains, sleep problems, skin problems, and weight problems.  I am never going to be as happy as I was 5 years ago, or as confident about my own future or that of America. 

And OF COURSE that is going to affect my spending decisions.  I'm not buying any of the stuff I used to - clothes, accessories, beauty products, nick-nacks for the house.  I have a 10-year-old couch in my family room that is literally falling apart, but I'm afraid to spend $1000 on a new one.  The carpets in my house look like crap after being run over for 8 years by two kids, a dog and two cats, but I can't justify dropping 8 grand to replace them.  I used to buy a few new Christmas decorations every year; I haven't bought any for the last 4 years.  I'm giving homemade candy and speiced tea mix as Christmas gifts for friends and neighbors this year instead of the bottles of wine and ornaments I used to buy.  And I'm working!  I can only imagine how badly small retailers are doing in towns where so many are not working.

And there are millions of people like me out there, many of them with children who are going to suffer permanent emotional damage from seeing their parents so sad and stressed out.  I think about all the times my kids saw me crying or yelling at them because I got turned down for yet another job or got hit with another bill I couldn't pay, the summer trips their friends took that we couldn't, etc. etc.  There are kids out there dealing with this every day.  And the asshole in the White House could not care less about them. 

Posted by: Reactionary at December 11, 2012 12:24 PM (Qqva6)

________________________

Inflation will force the fed to abandon that policy eventually. Could be a year, could be 5 but it will happen eventually. It's a matter of when, not if IMO.

85 The decline in health insurance premiums will occur in the out years (like entitlement reform) and the savings we will see from ten years of beneficent IPAB rulings CAROUSEL! RENEW! RENEW! will more than offset the "temporary" cost increase you think you are seeing now

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fixt

Oh, and I sat through a 3-hour meeting last night of my church vestry trying to figure out how to close a $40,000 gap in our budget for next year.  We have nine families dropping their pledges which account for over half of that, a  major donor that died, and a further loss of income because our stupid communist township government decided we can't rent out our empty rectory home.  Our projected pledge income next year is down almost 20% after two years of small increases.  And I'm supposed to lead a capital campaign next year to raise $500k to repair our buildings that are falling apart. 

When people stop giving to their church in the supposed fourth year of an economic recovery, you know you are being lied to by your government. 

Posted by: rockmom at December 11, 2012 12:25 PM (qE3AR)

Your point is a great one rockmom, and in my opinion one of the problems the Republicans have is that they fail to advertise much direct concern for those people.  Yes - Republican economic policies will address much of this problem - but we do a piss poor job of communicating concern for those who suffer in real human terms.  I'm not saying we should go over to advocating give-aways, but we should have pounded on the suffering of the unemployed, in human terms, and tied that directly to common sense reforms to energy policy, tax policy, etc.  I never saw that happen in any Mitt ad that aired in my TV market.  There was a lot of generic talk about jobs, but mostly just harping on the Obie's failure to deliver. 

Alas, too late now.  We'll have to wait until the non-whites feel they've had their revenge before we can get back to the real problems.  My only hope is that when this mess winds down the Rep party will be taken over by socially-rightward nationalist/populist types.  That message, packaged correctly, could resonate with enough people to cause lots of trouble for the Leftists.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 11, 2012 12:27 PM (HDgX3)

OK - but what will be the mechanism that brings inflation about?  Certainly not wage pressure!  Energy, in spite of the Leftist's work, is trending cheaper (at least for now).  If we go back to a few good harvest years, food prices will go down.  Plastics will be cheaper, as many are cracked from nat gas.  There are many deflationary forces at work.

And remember - the tax system extracts cash from every transaction.  You have sales taxes hitting almost every purchase, and income taxes taking a whack out of every dollar paid as wages.  Our tax system is a huge reserve drain, and as economic activity picks up it drains faster and faster.  There is a certain amount of self regulation there.  Combine that with the new normal - cash hoarding.  That's deflationary as well, as people demand a bigger pile of dollars to sit on.  Deleveraging, which is ongoing in the private sector, also drains cash out of the system that was levered into existence when loaned.  Taxes are changing in ways that will drive the rich to sit on assets rather than liquidate them - more resources will sit idle rather than be penalized.

Right now the US is very lucky.  If Barky had been elected during the good times we'd be screwed.  Right now we have huge deficits at a time when we can most easily accomodate them.  Indeed, in some respects that over-spending may be maintaining some of our productive capacity that would otherwise have gone out of business.   If a real recover does come on line, we will want that productive capacity in place.

#161 The people I'm really angry at are the media.  If this had been a Republican presiding over this economic disaster, there would have been front-page above-the-fold stories Every. Single. Fucking. Day. about the unemployed and the toll unemployment takes on them and their families.  There would have been heart-wrenching photo essays on all the boarded up small businesses, the churches closing, the kids going hungry, the suburban families showing up at the food banks and shopping at the Goodwill.  The public pressure to Do Something - and NOT to raise taxes on anyone -- would have become irresistible. 

Instead, what we got was cheerleading over a .01 drop in the unemployment rate, and 52 articles about Mitt Romney's dressage horse.

The people I'm really angry at are the media. If this had been a Republican presiding over this economic disaster, there would have been front-page above-the-fold stories Every. Single. Fucking. Day.   Posted by Rockmom

Think Abu Ghraib coverage versus Beghazi and Fast & Furious.