July 05, 2012
— LauraW Utah contends that the Bureau of Land Management is breaking the law when making decisions on land use.
The Red Rock Wilderness Bill never passed into law; yet it seems the BLM is going on ahead and managing the ten million acres addressed in Red Rock as if it did, anyway.
"The BLM denies gas drilling leases, or rights-of-way on roads, that should be granted by law. But because they conflict with the Red Rock Wilderness Act, which is not the law, Utah loses out."
Consistent with this administration's general theme of arrogant unaccountability, the enviro-potentates at the BLM have been refusing to disclose their reasoning on land use decisions to the locals.
But now a judge has ruled that the federal government must release the documents that show what rationale they are using to consistently deny lawful requests for land use.
Please go to the link to see the news video, which is short but good. The reporter takes the time to point out that Red Rock was sponsored by a NEW YORK CONGRESSMAN. You can imagine Utahns all spitting in unison when they heard that part of the broadcast, heh.
Is there a source one can turn to, to find out what states are suing the Federal government for similar overreaches of authority?
It's the same thing with these leftists, over and over again, isn't it?
They don't have the right to do something, but they go ahead and illegally do it anyway. If you don't like them creating an authority over you by decree (or apparent conspiracy), you must sue. Your choice is either to sue, or to submit to an illegal authority that doesn't really exist in the first place. That seems fair, eh?
Which is just another form of this administration's never-ending lawfare against the states.
Their illegal activities are causing your state to expend time and money to defend your rights and autonomy. Once again. And as a taxpayer, you get to pay the legal costs of both parties.
Thanks to longtime Utah Moron skinbad.
Posted by: LauraW at
01:14 PM
| Comments (327)
Post contains 349 words, total size 2 kb.
Posted by: Jean at July 05, 2012 01:16 PM (WkuV6)
Posted by: TheGarbone at July 05, 2012 01:17 PM (O3f8/)
Posted by: Your Federal Government at July 05, 2012 01:18 PM (+XVQe)
Posted by: Dr Spank at July 05, 2012 01:19 PM (Ou1jg)
Posted by: Cicero at July 05, 2012 01:19 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: Big John Roberts, Poobah of this Town (calling 'em like he sees 'em) at July 05, 2012 01:19 PM (m7blM)
Posted by: WalrusRex at July 05, 2012 01:20 PM (Hx5uv)
Don't worry. We're here to protect your rights.
Posted by: The Supreme Court at July 05, 2012 01:20 PM (4dy3y)
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 01:20 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: eleven at July 05, 2012 01:21 PM (KXm42)
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 01:21 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: Dr Spank at July 05, 2012 05:19 PM (Ou1jg)
-------------------------------------------
Yeah. I didn't know there were so many movies about furniture. BTW: Baraka Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure/tyrant.
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 01:22 PM (5vyPm)
Gee, I wonder who that is...
Ace, I would like to recommend placing these three words in red, bold characters, so that we become curious enough to find out who this weasel is.
Posted by: newton at July 05, 2012 01:22 PM (NtsQB)
Posted by: Craig Poe at July 05, 2012 01:22 PM (BVkEs)
Actuually all that was Utah at one point. Utah was like Texas on steroids.
Posted by: eleven at July 05, 2012 01:23 PM (KXm42)
They don't have the right to do something, but they go ahead and illegally do it anyway. If you don't like them creating an authority over you by decree (or apparent conspiracy), you must sue. Your choice is either to sue, or to submit to an illegal authority that doesn't really exist in the first place. That seems fair, eh?
It's like the EPA more or less refusing to have any appeal system in place for its various rulings. Hey do what we say or face $30,000 per day fines for not complying while we won't tell you why we did what we did or provide you any way short of going to the Supremes to stop it.
Posted by: alexthechick at July 05, 2012 01:23 PM (VtjlW)
Posted by: Lady in Black at July 05, 2012 01:23 PM (vOMX+)
LawFare.... I would like a State to use the Kelo decision, to use Emminent Domain to seize land from the Federal Government... and open it up for explotation.
Because Kelo basicly said it was OK, as long as the Tax's gained from the land would increase...
That... and start charging the Federal Government 'State' Property Tax... as there is nothing in the Constitution which makes the Feds immune from the tax's of a state.... hell.... just call it a "Penalty", Roberts likes calling Penaltys Taxs... LOL
Posted by: Romeo13 at July 05, 2012 01:24 PM (lZBBB)
My governor is tweeting links to PJ Media's Tatler!
I tried to link to twitter, but got an error from the hamsters. So this is all you get:
@BobbyJindal
Posted by: Mama AJ at July 05, 2012 01:24 PM (SUKHu)
Posted by: eleven
You're funny.
Posted by: Dr Spank at July 05, 2012 01:24 PM (Ou1jg)
Posted by: Mr. Pink at July 05, 2012 01:24 PM (++kZl)
Destroy the gates, and dare the hippies in the local BLM office to do something about it.
Posted by: Kristopher at July 05, 2012 01:24 PM (0aV2C)
Ummm. No.
Posted by: Supremacy Clause at July 05, 2012 01:26 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: cajun carrot at July 05, 2012 01:26 PM (UZQM8)
As Allen has been fond of saying lately, we've probably passed the point where we can as individuals stop or reverse the depredations, usurpatations and regulations of the federal government and need to spur the states to regain their rightful role.
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 05, 2012 01:27 PM (kSaUf)
Nope. Brigham Young wanted everything between the Rockies and the Cascades. What he got was Federal occupation after his underlings murdered a small wagontrain load of settlers.
Posted by: Kristopher at July 05, 2012 01:29 PM (0aV2C)
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 05:26 PM (5vyPm)
Mormans? Shit, we heard they were Normans.
Posted by: Harold Godwinson at July 05, 2012 01:30 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: huerfano at July 05, 2012 01:32 PM (bAGA/)
S. 979: AmericaÂ’s Red Rock Wilderness Act of 2011
Sponsor: Sen. Richard Durbin [D-IL]
Cosponsors: (14)
Sen. Mark Kirk [R-IL] (joined Dec 12, 2011)
Is there something in the water in that goofy state?
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 05, 2012 01:32 PM (kdS6q)
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 05, 2012 05:27 PM (kSaUf)
-----------------------------------------------
It's why local and state elections this time around are as important as the nationals. I truly believe that it's going to be up to the states to save the republic.
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 01:32 PM (5vyPm)
Posted by: JonathanEllis at July 05, 2012 01:33 PM (BdzEV)
The Mountain Meadows Massacre. Young later sent a nice Jello salad to the survivors as an apology.
Posted by: Cicero at July 05, 2012 01:34 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 05, 2012 01:34 PM (0q2P7)
Rep. Maurice Hinchey, D. NY, sponsor of the bill.
Posted by: Old Texas Chic at July 05, 2012 01:35 PM (lLXZV)
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 01:37 PM (5vyPm)
Cascades.
----
He got it, too. A hundred years ago there wasn't a Starbucks between Denver and San Francisco.
Posted by: WalrusRex at July 05, 2012 01:39 PM (Hx5uv)
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 01:39 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: Honey Tiberius Badger, drinker of mead at July 05, 2012 01:39 PM (GvYeG)
Posted by: thunderb at July 05, 2012 01:41 PM (Dnbau)
That one change would completely gut the 'we're assholes' portion of the EPA, while still allowing the actual intent of keeping the air and water clean.
Posted by: Al at July 05, 2012 01:41 PM (aOAEM)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 01:41 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 01:41 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: real joe at July 05, 2012 01:42 PM (PD2ad)
Bureau of Land Grab and Mismanagement ha
The Springs fire.
While I was on mandatory evacuation I drove through a country where private people and builders designed a land use system to live, raise families and provide a civil society for a continent and 100 years. It is gone mostly since the 1976 law. A generation lost.
Posted by: Mountains,Landbarons and Serfs at July 05, 2012 01:42 PM (ygeB6)
And over in the Boehnerland:
H.R.1916 Red Rock Wilderness Act of 2011
121 HOUSE COSPONSORS
Illinois
Judy Biggert, R-13
Tim Johnson, R-15
Pennsylvania
Mike Fitzpatrick, R-08
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 05, 2012 01:42 PM (kdS6q)
Posted by: steevy at July 05, 2012 01:42 PM (Xb3hu)
Cascades. What he got was Federal occupation after his underlings
murdered a small wagontrain load of settlers.
The Mountain Meadows Massacre. Young later sent a nice Jello salad to the survivors as an apology.
Posted by: Cicero at July 05, 2012 05:34 PM (QKKT0)
=========
Mitt Romney, as I'm reliably informed by the media, has never apologized for that.
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 05, 2012 01:42 PM (kSaUf)
Posted by: cajun carrot at July 05, 2012 01:43 PM (UZQM8)
I've never been a big booster and I certainly wish we had other choices last year but he strikes me as the kind of man that is not afraid of doom-sized problems.
This is the guy who, upon hearing that one of the members at his church injured himself trying to remove a hornet nest, went and removed the dang thing himself.
Not a chance in hell would I ever contemplate doing that on my own.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at July 05, 2012 01:43 PM (famk3)
Posted by: Tommy V at July 05, 2012 01:44 PM (iJ5jJ)
Or declare that you (the State) are sovereign within your own borders, and that the Federal Government has no jurisdiction not provided by the Constitution.
Then tell companies that want to (in this case) use land, "Yeah, sure."
When the feds come around, deny the feds access to any state resources (including money, personnel, equipment, and facilities) to enforce their unconstitutional decrees.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 01:44 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: real joe at July 05, 2012 01:44 PM (PD2ad)
October Surprise!
Posted by: Jay in Ames at July 05, 2012 01:45 PM (UEEex)
And on top of that they are spending tax payer money to cheat us, then these States and companies are going to go back and force them to pay their legal bills as well and it will cost us even more.
Republicans really do need to eliminate the EPA and fire every damn one of them and start over with a much leaner mandate. And a law that says anyone who worked there can never have any other federal job.
They also need to clean up all these dman laws the Democrats passed in the 70s and 80s that make it easy for damn green commie to block projects by suing.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2012 01:46 PM (YdQQY)
Ummm. No.
Posted by: Supremacy Clause at July 05, 2012 05:26 PM (QKKT0)
Uh.... Possibly.... never been tested.... because... "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State."
Note.... Nothing in the Constitution (ie supremacy clause) shall be so construed as to prejudice any claim (emminent domain) of 'any particular State'....
And with these Supremes? who knows what they'll rule...
Posted by: Romeo13 at July 05, 2012 01:47 PM (lZBBB)
Aren't they still withholding permits, unless you jump through impossibly tiny hoops?
Posted by: Jay in Ames at July 05, 2012 01:48 PM (UEEex)
Posted by: Supremacy Clause at July 05, 2012 05:26 PM (QKKT0)
Uh.... Possibly.... never been tested.... because...
"The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.
"Note.... Nothing in the Constitution (ie supremacy clause) shall be so construed as to prejudice any claim (emminent domain) of 'any particular State'....And with these Supremes? who knows what they'll rule...
Posted by: Romeo13 at July 05, 2012 01:49 PM (lZBBB)
The fact is that the Federal Government has no Constitutional Authority to "manage" land at all. The closest they come is having Maritime control, which really shouldn't extend inland at all. Last I checked, Utah didn't have all that much "navigable" water- so that even throws that tenuous grip off.
The correct answer is refusal to comply. Sorry, it just is.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 01:49 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Zombie Fred Gwinn at July 05, 2012 01:50 PM (tVz5Y)
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 01:50 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: Uncledave at July 05, 2012 01:51 PM (SxEV4)
permitorium continued until about a month ago when the fed hd the first auction of long term leases inthe gulf since deep water horizon explosion. New flash, its too late. The recent auction is an election ploy to say "see, there is no permitorium". They will shut it down againif he wins re-election.
He hates this country. Anything to cut us down to size.
Posted by: thunderb at July 05, 2012 01:51 PM (Dnbau)
Posted by: 1988 East German Women's Swim Team at July 05, 2012 01:52 PM (x7g7t)
Posted by: Fritz at July 05, 2012 01:53 PM (02fNe)
Posted by: TheLittlShiningMan at July 05, 2012 01:54 PM (PH+2B)
This is the guy who, upon hearing that one of the members at his church injured himself trying to remove a hornet nest, went and removed the dang thing himself.
Oh sure, it's all about Romney. What about our larvae? Nothing? Don't care? Happy non-insectivorous 4th, you speciesist.
Posted by: Union of Concerned Apian-Americans at July 05, 2012 01:54 PM (6TB1Z)
As Allen has been fond of saying lately, we've probably passed the point where we can as individuals stop or reverse the depredations, usurpatations and regulations of the federal government and need to spur the states to regain their rightful role.
Minor quibble- and I may not have been clear. I never thought that we "as individuals" could stop or reverse the tyranny of the Federal Government. I don't think individuals even could have in the 18th or 19th centuries. No, I think the States are the best option because they're the most likely to succeed while avoiding mass bloodshed.
It was never a question of me, individually, making a difference. It was (and remains) a question of whether the States will stand up, or whether we really will degenerate into a second civil war.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 01:54 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Fritz at July 05, 2012 05:53 PM (02fNe)
Hmmm interesting question... States run all the Fire fighting... and pay for it... but what would happen if the Fire Started on FEDERAL Land?
Posted by: Romeo13 at July 05, 2012 01:55 PM (lZBBB)
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2012 05:46 PM (YdQQY)
------------------------------------------------
This will have to be done first if any progress toward limiting or eliminating the EPA is to commence. It's an old MO. The leftists will use the courts if the legislators get in their way.
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 01:56 PM (5vyPm)
Posted by: DaveA at July 05, 2012 01:57 PM (864A5)
Posted by: Chief 'Just Ass' Roberts at July 05, 2012 01:58 PM (FcR7P)
This is not going to turn out well for Utah.
Posted by: General Woundwort at July 05, 2012 01:59 PM (06lNq)
Posted by: Infidel at July 05, 2012 01:59 PM (O/fK8)
BO seems intent on providing today's schoolchildren with a real history lesson by stoking the kinds of passions that led us to Antietam, Fredericksburg and Cold Harbor. So I guess he's an educator, in addition to a lightworker.
Posted by: pep at July 05, 2012 02:02 PM (6TB1Z)
There are many fools
Who dare propose imposing limits
On my power
Those ungrateful who've been swayed by
Intellectuals in their ivory towers
They will pay for crimes that God and I can not allow
Some before the firing squad and some behind the plow
Posted by: model_1066 at July 05, 2012 02:03 PM (YbQJm)
Posted by: Charles Gibson at July 05, 2012 02:03 PM (7+pP9)
Posted by: Things Team Obama Lies About at July 05, 2012 02:04 PM (eHIJJ)
Posted by: pep at July 05, 2012 06:02 PM (6TB1Z)
-----------------------------------------------------
I'm praying that people wake up before we have a civil war. A civil war now would make the Civil War of the 1860's look like a minor nosebleed.
Not to mention the dozens of countries that would be drooling over the chance of coming in and taking over. Sharia anyone?
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 02:07 PM (5vyPm)
Posted by: The Jackhole at July 05, 2012 02:07 PM (nTgAI)
Posted by: DaveA at July 05, 2012 02:07 PM (864A5)
In other words, could Utah tell Exxon to go ahead and drill and post National Guard units to keep federal agents away?
Posted by: jjmurphy at July 05, 2012 02:08 PM (gWO5X)
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 02:09 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative)
How the fuck did you survive NJ with no sense of humor you stupid little shit!
From now on just assume I'm smarter and funnier than you and you'll save us both time.
Posted by: DaveA at July 05, 2012 02:10 PM (864A5)
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 02:10 PM (evdj2)
The International Whaling Commission is in uproar after South KoreaÂ’s decision to resume scientific whaling. It caps a meeting in Panama that also failed to approve a South Atlantic sanctuary.
Korea wants to resume hunting Minke whales, considered endangered by the World Wildlife Fund.
Environmentalists complain scientific whaling is commercial fishing in disguise. Seoul was one of the first countries to use the treaty clause to get round the IWCÂ’s 1986 global moratorium, but after intense international pressure stopped the following year.
Posted by: Jack Kerouac at July 05, 2012 02:11 PM (e8kgV)
UN organization supplies North Korea and Iran with HP computers and servers.
http://tinyurl.com/c6oj8m3
With 'friends' like this, who needs enemies?
Posted by: Anna Puma at July 05, 2012 02:11 PM (9tnUZ)
Posted by: DaveA at July 05, 2012 06:07 PM (864A5)
Colorado is a pollutant? Damn those EPA bastards!
Posted by: model_1066 at July 05, 2012 02:11 PM (YbQJm)
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 02:11 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: rightlysouthern at July 05, 2012 02:11 PM (5j+rs)
In other words, could Utah tell Exxon to go ahead and drill and post National Guard units to keep federal agents away?
Posted by: jjmurphy at July 05, 2012 06:08 PM (gWO5X)
-----------------------------------------------------
My gut says no. But, I figure it's one of the reasons that the founders wrote the 2nd Amendment.
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 02:12 PM (5vyPm)
Damn, the Feds screw the States every which way.
Posted by: jjmurphy at July 05, 2012 02:13 PM (gWO5X)
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 02:14 PM (evdj2)
“I always find it highly ironic that two Members of Congress from the East coast get such great pleasure in telling us in Utah how we should manage our lands, and what should be considered wilderness,” stated Hatch. “This bill creates millions of acres of restrictive wilderness designation in Utah that would obstruct energy development and future energy transmission, as well as recreational access to a large portion of our state – without any regard to the work of the local officials who are concerned with preserving true, pristine wilderness balanced with the need for economic development and financial stability.”
This bill has been around for the last 20 years.
Posted by: Jack Kerouac at July 05, 2012 02:14 PM (e8kgV)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 05, 2012 02:15 PM (r4wIV)
I mean, why should I be denied the cultural heritage* of my ancestors just because one day someone decided whales were cute?
* How does it make sense to let the Indians hunt them but not those of European blood? We've probably just as long a history of eating whale as they.
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 05, 2012 02:15 PM (kSaUf)
Posted by: nickless at July 05, 2012 02:16 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 05, 2012 06:15 PM (r4wIV)
maybe making federal land grabs like this should only be done by constitutional amendment. seems reasonable. Hatch should introduce a bill to make DC a nuclear waste storage facility.
Posted by: model_1066 at July 05, 2012 02:19 PM (YbQJm)
===========
So, the state seizes the armory and arms only those who sign an oath to the state first.
I mean, we're talking war here no matter what. Might as well make allegiances clear.
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 05, 2012 02:19 PM (kSaUf)
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at July 05, 2012 02:20 PM (Ec6wH)
The Aztecs liked to cut the still-beating hearts out of their captives. So...anyone with Aztec ancestry should be able to participate in that culturally significant behavior.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 05, 2012 02:21 PM (nEUpB)
I mean, why should I be denied the cultural heritage* of my ancestors just because one day someone decided whales were cute?
I've no interest in eating them, but I would be willing to do my part in protecting the Earth by driving a car that runs on a renewable energy source. Like whale oil, for instance.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 05, 2012 02:21 PM (SY2Kh)
I mean, why should I be denied the cultural heritage* of my ancestors just because one day someone decided whales were cute?
* How does it make sense to let the Indians hunt them but not those of European blood? We've probably just as long a history of eating whale as they.
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 05, 2012 06:15 PM (kSaUf)
don't forget to dip the blubber in seal oil!
and the Alaskan tribes hunt their whales with modern technology with support from the oil companies...as they saying goes, it's not subsistence, it's subsidized.
Posted by: model_1066 at July 05, 2012 02:21 PM (YbQJm)
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 02:21 PM (evdj2)
I thought they used federal troops there not NG. (which was a violation of federal law at the time)
But if we get to that point we have already lost. Republicans need to grow some balls. But as has been demonstrated time and time again they will not. In this case the damned EPA is a Republican established POS from Richard Nixon.
I keep saying and people keep getting their backs up, but this shit will not cease until we hold an Art V convention and fix it.
It will be that or we will collapse into Road Warrior anarchy chaos or open civil war.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2012 02:21 PM (YdQQY)
/rant off.
Posted by: tcn at July 05, 2012 02:21 PM (eFcVx)
Posted by: nickless at July 05, 2012 02:21 PM (MMC8r)
UN organization supplies North Korea and Iran with HP computers and servers.
http://tinyurl.com/c6oj8m3
With 'friends' like this, who needs enemies?
Posted by: Anna Puma at July 05, 2012 06:11 PM (9tnUZ)
HP Computers? I'd consider that sabotage.
Posted by: Carly Fiona at July 05, 2012 02:22 PM (7+pP9)
=================
Makes about as much sense as "Indian gambling."
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 05, 2012 02:22 PM (kSaUf)
If there's a heavy metal right in the towns name you can be pretty sure it's a Superfund site. There's also a lot of Midnight Oil companies on the list too. And if the watermelons had stuck to just real messes we'd have to find another topic.
Posted by: DaveA at July 05, 2012 02:22 PM (864A5)
Posted by: Anna Puma at July 05, 2012 02:22 PM (9tnUZ)
Damn, the Feds screw the States every which way.
Posted by: jjmurphy at July 05, 2012 06:13 PM (gWO5X)
--------------------------------------------
It all boils down to which side the military will want to stand. I think it's one of the reasons that dems have been engineering the social signature of our troops. If worse comes to worse, the military will split, with the first thing happening of both sides squaring off to fight for the best hardware.
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 02:22 PM (5vyPm)
O/T - Levin is reading from a most fascinating (March '12) AmSpec piece on the vermin that is David Axelfraud. The commie doesn't fall far from the tree.
Posted by: RushBabe at July 05, 2012 02:22 PM (qxsyW)
http://tinyurl.com/89d55rr
Posted by: huerfano at July 05, 2012 02:23 PM (bAGA/)
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2012 02:23 PM (YdQQY)
I'll hold your coat. No single state, or even a collection of states if they are in the West with it's thin population will prevail in a war with the Feds.
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 06:21 PM (evdj2)
Might make a good screenplay though
Posted by: The Jackhole at July 05, 2012 02:24 PM (nTgAI)
Posted by: model_1066 at July 05, 2012 06:21 PM (YbQJm)
Alaska doesn't have "tribes." We have Native Corporations. If you are 1/4 Native, you sign up. The Corporations own the land and the business of the Corporation.
And they eat the whale meat and blubber, so no matter how they harvest it, they are using it. There is a limit, and they stick to that, but it's not like they can run down to the Safeway to stock up on beef, or chicken. Most grocery items are shipped in once a year by barge and then taken inland by four-wheeler.
Don't judge until you live the life.
Posted by: tcn at July 05, 2012 02:25 PM (eFcVx)
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 02:26 PM (evdj2)
====================
Yup.
The numbers nor the machinery favor an armed rebellion.
Will the military fire on US civilians. The Civil War says, "all day, every day, until they are dead or surrender."
It's always the old saying: "We have to win their hearts and minds first."
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 05, 2012 02:26 PM (kSaUf)
You know, the prelude to civil war is
1. Philosophical polarization becoming geographic. Folks of one ideology find they can't live in a government run by the other, and move to friendly areas.
2. Ruling federal power imposes one sides view on the other, repeatedly, and in a a way that violates state sovereignty.
Then comes the inevitable.
3. The dissenting states seek to peaceably leave the union.
Civil war follows if the federal power openly denies them their right to leave, or makes an overt military action to prevent them from leaving.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 05, 2012 02:26 PM (0q2P7)
He doesn't even care if the Repubs have both the house and the senate. It won't matter to him, he knows they are too pussy to impeach.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 05, 2012 02:26 PM (gnmZI)
Any such usage would be insurrection. Maybe worth it, though.
And, yes, the Feds could just Federalize the troops and then they'd be under the authority of the US Government. The question is what would the troops do at that point?
Some States have their own, State sanctioned armed forces- Texas, for instance, has the Texas Guard. They are not under the authority of the US Armed Services in any way, and can only assist even the Texas National Guard under direct orders (presumably from the Governor).
These troops could be used in that fashion. Which would still be insurrection, but there would be less legalistic wrangling over it.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 02:27 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2012 02:28 PM (YdQQY)
That was smart. Federalizing the ANG and then giving an order that may or may not be obeyed would cause a huge problem. Having them on the sidelines while the 101st did the work was a good plan.
From the 101st web site:
"In September 1957, elements of the 101st Airborne Division were ordered to Little Rock, Arkansas by President Eisenhower. As part of Operation ARKANSAS, the 1st Airborne Battle Group, 327th Infantry escorted the first nine African-American students–the “Little Rock Nine”—as they attended classes at Little Rock Central High School. Successful, the Bastogne Bulldogs returned to Fort Campbell in late-1957."
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 05, 2012 02:29 PM (nEUpB)
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 02:30 PM (evdj2)
That's a question whose answer I don't want to know.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 05, 2012 02:31 PM (nEUpB)
True but. Our political dynamic is much different than it was with the Civil War. You would have a UN stoked mostly with folks who would love to see the US cut in half. And you would have a hard time getting the population on board with subjugating folks, when 75% of your brainwashed libbies don't believe in forcibly holding anything and would look forward to conservatives being gone.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 05, 2012 02:32 PM (0q2P7)
Will the military fire on US civilians. The Civil War says, "all day, every day, until they are dead or surrender."
It depends on what the actual soldiers do. The States will appeal to their National Guard troops to "Stand with your Home" or somesuch. More than a few probably will.
Yes, if an actual civil war breaks out over this, it will be bloody. It will make the Civil War look like a picnic. Heck, it might even make WWI not look so bad anymore.
Of course, Texas has Ft. Hood, Ft. Bliss, and Dyess AFB (not to mention a variety of other military bases). If those break for the "New Confederacy" (or whatever) it makes things mighty interesting.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 02:33 PM (8y9MW)
I would not expect the military to in and of itself to rise up and overthrow the government, though at this point in our history it would be a consummation devoutly to be wished. However, if a citizen-based insurrection were to occur that could not be quelled by government forces, the next step would be for the military to be called in, despite the illegality of such a move (of course, what is illegal anymore). At that point, each member of the military would have to make the determination independently if he were acting in accordance with our nation's principles.
I'd like to think that my old Air Force buddies would know which side to strafe.
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at July 05, 2012 02:33 PM (Ec6wH)
Yes, they did. Eisenhower federalized the entire Arkansas National Guard, and then sent in the 101st. Airborne.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 05, 2012 02:33 PM (nEUpB)
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 06:30 PM (evdj2)
The AR NG had not been ordered to resist the feds.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2012 02:34 PM (YdQQY)
No they didn't. The NG weren't instructed (as far as I know, at any rate) to violently oppose the Feds.
Who get's the nukes in a rebellion?
Speaking of questions the answers to which we do not wish to know...
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 02:35 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: cajun carrot at July 05, 2012 02:35 PM (mO2XR)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 05, 2012 02:36 PM (r4wIV)
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 02:36 PM (evdj2)
The Feds would have control of most of them, simply because of control of launch codes and such. But the smaller, tactical stuff? Who knows? I don't even know how many tactical nukes we still have.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 05, 2012 02:37 PM (nEUpB)
Posted by: Alex at July 05, 2012 02:38 PM (rjeWV)
Give us your motivated,
your taxed,
your regulated masses,
Yearning to work their asses off in a free land.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 05, 2012 02:39 PM (0q2P7)
I'd like to think that my old Air Force buddies would know which side to strafe.
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at July 05, 2012 06:33 PM (Ec6wH)
--------------------------------------------------------
That's why I mentioned upthread that there would be an armed struggle within the military to find out who got the F18's and who didn't. Who got control of the nuke subs and who didn't, and so on.......
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 02:40 PM (5vyPm)
Mostly because one does not make it much to general without toeing 100% the PC line today.
Remember that Russian that predicted that the US would break up into several regions?
Only one state has it's own power grid.
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 05, 2012 02:40 PM (kSaUf)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 02:41 PM (8y9MW)
>>>Let's talk about boobs.
US Federal Government tells a State, "No that large swath of land belongs to me and you may not develop it because I said so." conversation only has one possible conclusion if the State cannot find relief in the courts.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 05, 2012 02:42 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 02:42 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 05, 2012 06:36 PM (r4wIV)
------------------------------------------
Guerilla warfare. The nastiest kind.
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 02:43 PM (5vyPm)
Posted by: Alex at July 05, 2012 02:43 PM (rjeWV)
And no one really knows the exact shelf life of the electronics in a nuke spending all that time next to radioactive material, even if shielded.
That's why regular testing was so important.
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 05, 2012 02:44 PM (kSaUf)
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 02:45 PM (evdj2)
Well that's a kick in the balls.
Just as we were easing away from this depressing shit and onto the most important topic of all (boobs), you had to drag us back to reality?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 05, 2012 02:45 PM (nEUpB)
Posted by: Alex at July 05, 2012 02:45 PM (rjeWV)
Just as we were easing away from this depressing shit and onto the most important topic of all (boobs), you had to drag us back to reality?
I'm a giver. You're welcome.
Posted by: Alex at July 05, 2012 02:46 PM (rjeWV)
The Democratic Party has changed. It is absolutely completely corrupt to its core. Rank and file Democrats need to be made aware of that fact. This isn't their father's Democratic Party.
Posted by: crosspatch at July 05, 2012 02:47 PM (ZbLJZ)
Sadly, the fastest way to do that is to start holding them personally accountable for what their spokespeople do.
"Hey, why do you support what Charlie Rangle (or whoever) did?"
"I don't. He doesn't represent me?"
"Sure he does. You support the party that supports him. If you had a problem with what that party does, you wouldn't support it."
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 02:49 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Alex at July 05, 2012 02:50 PM (rjeWV)
Don't forget the DIY genetic engineers and bioweapons makers.
Here. Have some boobehs in recompense. http://tinyurl.com/c86edpg
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at July 05, 2012 02:51 PM (Gk3SS)
I want to knock Kate Upton up just so I can suckle milk out of those glorious tatas.
Posted by: Alex at July 05, 2012 02:51 PM (rjeWV)
Posted by: "old school" Democrats at July 05, 2012 02:51 PM (FcR7P)
I'd like it better if he put people who were publicly hostile to the agencies in charge of them. "Hey, Ronnie, you wanna run the Fed? I'm tasking you with shutting it down."
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 02:51 PM (8y9MW)
Who knows the lay of the land, where all the roads, trails and hiding spots are.
An AK-47, while widespread in the ME, isn't much of a sniper rifle.
If you're in the military and the order is to put down a rebellion in the West, that's gonna scare the shit out of you.
And a new law says you can make and/or buy silencers for your deer rifle in TX.
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 05, 2012 02:51 PM (kSaUf)
This assumes that they possess shame.
Posted by: navybrat at July 05, 2012 02:52 PM (OiCLl)
Posted by: Alex at July 05, 2012 06:50 PM (rjeWV)
--------------------------------------------
Or just re-name it. EPA: Enviromental Putz Agency.
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 02:52 PM (5vyPm)
We don't want to scare the wild hogs away, after all.
Which, by the way, we can now shoot from helicopters.
Yes, an "invasion" into the southern states would not be pretty- on either side.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 02:53 PM (8y9MW)
Or better yet; appoint me as head of the EPA. I will, over the course of his first term, destroy it as a functioning entity. After I'm done with it there won't be an EPA employee anywhere in America except for a small room in the basement of the DC building, where anyone who wants to keep his EPA job can sit, answering phones and moving boxes of paperwork for 10 hours/day.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 05, 2012 02:53 PM (nEUpB)
Guerilla warfare. The nastiest kind.
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 06:43 PM (5vyPm)
As I started pointing out a few years ago... the US Army changed its doctrine from a Big Battle Doctrine, to COIN, a few years ago. COIN (counter insurgency) is only usefull in TWO instances... Occupation, and Insurrection.
ALL of our combat troops, including most Reserve Units, have been in COIN ops, in actual Combat Zones... many multiple times....
Ugly does not even begin to describe it...
Posted by: Romeo13 at July 05, 2012 02:53 PM (lZBBB)
Posted by: eleven
The State of Deseret
Posted by: maverick muse at July 05, 2012 02:54 PM (BAnPT)
Less likely since neither side will want to start down that road.
I had a conversation about this a year or so back, and I said then that you'd see EFPs common within the first six months. Anti Tank and surface to air missiles would be in production in about 15-18 months. They wouldn't be pretty, but they'd do enough to make life unpleasant for anyone trying move along say, the Rocky Mountains.
Posted by: Alex at July 05, 2012 02:54 PM (rjeWV)
I would personally evict deadbeats.
Section 8 checks would be on day later every month until landlords just give up and evicted those.
Crime nationwide would plummet.
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 05, 2012 02:54 PM (kSaUf)
Wouldn't take that long. DFW alone has assembly plants for Lockheed Martin, Bell Helicopter, and Raytheon. On top of that, we've got a GM assembly plant which could be retooled, and the wider Texas region has a lot of manufacturing and industry.
And, no: ugly does not even begin to describe it.
Thus the reason I'd really like the States to start taking their power back- if there is any chance that we can reverse course without mass bloodshed, that's it. And it's a fairly slim chance.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 02:57 PM (8y9MW)
Title at the County Sheriffs office.
Welcome home boys.
Posted by: Mountains,Landbarons and Serfs at July 05, 2012 02:57 PM (ygeB6)
My mother lives up in Western Colorado. I was driving through the canyons last time I went to visit her, and I remember thinking how absolutely horrifying it would be to have to try and fight your way up through them. There are places where the walls are 100m apart, 100m high, with a river running up the middle. Ugly.
Posted by: Alex at July 05, 2012 02:57 PM (rjeWV)
That is how you bring things to a head and draw attention because anything short of that will just get swept under the rug until they left can find a completely unprincipled an malleable judge like John Roberts to rule as they wish.
Posted by: Voluble at July 05, 2012 02:57 PM (Ub+ky)
We've been discussing why. Refusal to comply is the first step toward armed insurrection. Even if such a thing ends up being necessary (God, please let it not be necessary), that would be so far beyond "ugly" I don't think even our most hardened battle veterans would be prepared for it.
It's much easier and safer just to let the tyrant run amok.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 02:59 PM (8y9MW)
The West and the Southwest would be extremely difficult. The Midwest might be easiest, simply because of the army's ability to move fast.
But I would prefer more boobs please.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 05, 2012 02:59 PM (nEUpB)
I'm assuming that major production facilities would be out of commission early on in any war. Even with that being the case, you have enough engineers and guys with professional machining equipment that it wouldn't take long. Not to mention every university engineering department...
Posted by: Alex at July 05, 2012 02:59 PM (rjeWV)
Which, by the way, we can now shoot from helicopters.
Yes, an "invasion" into the southern states would not be pretty- on either side.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 06:53 PM (8y9MW)
---------------------------------------------
Just myself, I know enough effective firing points and hidey-holes to drive any combat unit bonkers. I know I'd eventually be found and killed, but I'd take a lot of 'em with me.
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 02:59 PM (5vyPm)
While I'm sure there's a procedure that requires such to be flushed in case of insurrection, will the person in charge be able to? Be dead or sympathetic?
Maybe that's a leading indicator the feds considered a state in rebellion, sending out the order to flush the Ebola, plague, smallpox, anthrax, etc. samples.
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 05, 2012 03:00 PM (kSaUf)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 03:01 PM (8y9MW)
The problem for the Midwest is again the sheer amount of area that has to be covered. Plus, I'd worry about fighting destroying crops throughout the region. Imagine NYC when food shortages hit.
Posted by: Alex at July 05, 2012 03:01 PM (rjeWV)
My great-great-grandmother was thrown alive into a fire by the Nazis who took her village.
Letting the tyrants run amok rarely turns out well.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 05, 2012 03:01 PM (nEUpB)
bwaha! teh funny, as if an engineering student is likely a skilled machinist.
Posted by: maverick muse at July 05, 2012 03:01 PM (BAnPT)
The new station, the first of its kind in Egypt, will exclusively feature women dressed in the niqab veil, a full head covering with only a slit for the eyes, as prescribed by Islamic Sharia law.
In addition to the presenters, the all-female staff, including the camera crews and technical support will all be under cover.
... and they say that the iPhones is now boring.
Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at July 05, 2012 03:02 PM (e8kgV)
I agree. That's why I'm calling on the States to oppose the Federal Government. It's actually a fairly common theme over at my place. That said, I still understand why they aren't.
Fear is a huge demotivator.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 03:02 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Mister Christopher at July 05, 2012 03:03 PM (DQhAB)
Posted by: Joe Williams at July 05, 2012 03:03 PM (kFnmp)
Yup. Fissionable material, the really scary bioweapons stuff, etc. etc. When I feel like not sleeping, I ponder what it would take for one nutter to let loose the gods of war just with what's in, say, the MIT labs. Yeah. That's a fun thought.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at July 05, 2012 03:03 PM (Gk3SS)
They're not. But they have the equipment, and there are lots of skilled machinists.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 03:03 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Alex at July 05, 2012 06:54 PM (rjeWV)
The history of the IRA gives you an idea of what an insurgency among an educated first world population can achieve.
In 1970 they were setting off crude bombs in Belfast. By the 80s they had sophisticated bombs using the latest explosives set off by timer and radio control, and in the 90's as the British developed counter-measures they had tamper-resistant bombs controlled by microwaves or light signals. When they finally disarmed in the 2000s, their arsenal included working prototypes of cruise missiles and torpedoes.
The insurgents in the middle east are basically recreating what the IRA was already doing in the 80s.
Posted by: Mætenloch at July 05, 2012 03:04 PM (xROTy)
Posted by: rightlysouthern at July 05, 2012 03:05 PM (5j+rs)
Or go to hell.
Posted by: maverick muse at July 05, 2012 03:05 PM (BAnPT)
Posted by: Mayor Bloomberg at July 05, 2012 03:05 PM (FcR7P)
Posted by: Bill Ayers at July 05, 2012 03:06 PM (e8kgV)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at July 05, 2012 03:07 PM (Gk3SS)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 07:02 PM (8y9MW)
-----------------------------------------------
I think most of that fear comes from the prospect of getting cut off from fed funds. If one could convince a group of states that they could do rather well on their own, we'll see more states asserting their rights.
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 03:07 PM (5vyPm)
Me, neither. But if they're coming in (say) the next 60 years, I'd rather get them over with now, that make my kids be the ones to deal with them.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 03:08 PM (8y9MW)
Well, it looks like Texas is starting to move down that road. Maybe that would work.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 05, 2012 03:08 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: t-bird at July 05, 2012 03:08 PM (FcR7P)
http: //www.imdb.com/title/ tt0120086/fullcredits#cast
Where a Regular Army unit is sent against an NG. They drive onto the field, walk in from lines, Hey Joe, Hey Bill, hava cuppa and sit down waiting for calmer heads.
Might be a different flic. The synopsis for this one does have some shooting, bombing etc. And the conclusion is about Beau Bridges backing down so he can get with Elizabeth Pena
Posted by: DaveA at July 05, 2012 03:09 PM (864A5)
"First thing that always pops into my head regarding our president is that all of the people who are setting up this barrier for him ... they just conveniently forget that Barack had a mama, and she was white — very white American, Kansas, middle of America," Freeman said. "There was no argument about who he is or what he is. America's first black president hasn't arisen yet. He's not America's first black president — he's America's first mixed-race president."
Posted by: Bill Burkett at July 05, 2012 03:09 PM (e8kgV)
That was my thinking exactly. When I was at the Career Course, we spoke with British officers who had fought in N. Ireland, and some of the stuff they mentioned was hair raising.
Posted by: Alex at July 05, 2012 03:09 PM (rjeWV)
Yeah, no kidding. And I think a lot of soldiers would think twice about that kind of order anyway.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 05, 2012 03:10 PM (r4wIV)
This calls to mind the arguments during the debt limit increase. I am in the camp that says stop kicking the can down the road and face the disaster now. It won't get better the longer you ignore it. There is no deux ex that's coming to save us. Well, okay SMOD but that's only for certain definitions of save.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at July 05, 2012 03:10 PM (Gk3SS)
============
Wow. Never thought about that. In the Civil War, the North could feed its cities without the South. Now? Those in the cities can barely take a shit without someone holding their hand. And those that feed them are most likely to be the ones opposite them this time.
Their water supply and electricity would be the first to go. Even if they have food, how long will the civilians stay in NY or Chicago without running water or electricity?
Ugly? The lucky ones will be those killed in the beginning.
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 05, 2012 03:11 PM (kSaUf)
Or as John Adams put it, "I am a revolutionary so my son can be a farmer so his son can be a poet."
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 05, 2012 03:12 PM (r4wIV)
Yup. Don't remind lefties that Obama lived with his white mother, white grandparents, in and upper middle class white neighborhood and attended a white private school. He's a very dark white dude.
Posted by: Alex at July 05, 2012 03:12 PM (rjeWV)
This calls to mind the arguments during the debt limit increase. I am in the camp that says stop kicking the can down the road and face the disaster now. It won't get better the longer you ignore it. There is no deux ex that's coming to save us. Well, okay SMOD but that's only for certain definitions of save.
That's because you're a responsible adult. You need to stop that.
Posted by: Alex at July 05, 2012 03:16 PM (rjeWV)
Yup. Disease and starvation often kill more people than bullets or knives in a war. Especially civilians.
Posted by: Alex at July 05, 2012 03:17 PM (rjeWV)
YOU TAKE THAT BACK! *clutches video games and action figures to bosom*
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at July 05, 2012 03:19 PM (Gk3SS)
Don't forget, a lot of ex-IRA talent has turned mercenary. Those other groups will progress faster as a result.
And of course, the growing field of micro-manufacturing would play a role. Not to be confused with nanotechnology, this is the rapid growth of tools to produce one-off items that formerly were only economical to produce in huge numbers using factories that required immense capital investment.
An interesting item is seen at The Pirate Bay. They recently added a category called Physibles, to exchange the digital files that direct the creation of complex physical objects. Still just wishful thinking but the progress is happening. We may live to see a time when a machine can produce perfect parts to be assembled into, say, an AK-47, without a skilled machinist involved. As software has allowed programmer to package expertise in a field like accounting, digitally drive micro-factories will extend that into all sorts of areas.
Posted by: epobirs at July 05, 2012 03:20 PM (kcfmt)
Admit it! Come to the dark side...
Posted by: Alex at July 05, 2012 03:20 PM (rjeWV)
It's no picnic, I can assure you.
Posted by: 12 Monkeys at July 05, 2012 03:21 PM (6TB1Z)
The type most desperate to be down with the brothers. He could have gone a lot of different ways considering the advantages he had growing up but he chose this.
Posted by: epobirs at July 05, 2012 03:22 PM (kcfmt)
Both the BFF and Boy BFF like(d) to annoy me by calling me the most adult person they knew. Since I actively try to avoid being an adult, I asked why. BFF explained that it's because I prefer to face life how it is and deal with that. She had a point.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at July 05, 2012 03:23 PM (Gk3SS)
The Chinese cyberthreat is just an inkling of what could be done.
Posted by: pep at July 05, 2012 03:24 PM (6TB1Z)
Both the BFF and Boy BFF like(d) to annoy me by calling me the most adult person they knew. Since I actively try to avoid being an adult, I asked why. BFF explained that it's because I prefer to face life how it is and deal with that. She had a point.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at July 05, 2012 07:23 PM (Gk3SS)
It's the best way. People get all F'ed up when the mistake the way they think the world SHOULD be and and not the way it really is.
I always tell my friends "never mistake for pessimism my uncanny ability to see the truth"
Posted by: The Jackhole at July 05, 2012 03:27 PM (nTgAI)
Posted by: Y-not at July 05, 2012 03:29 PM (5H6zj)
Posted by: The Jackhole at July 05, 2012 07:27 PM (nTgAI)
I have a theory that the Left truly believes in its own mantras... one of which is the saying that "Perception is reality"....
They truly think they can change reality, by changing enough peoples perspectives.... and then are sooooo suprised when Reality bitch slaps them upside the head...
Posted by: Romeo13 at July 05, 2012 03:30 PM (lZBBB)
Posted by: pep at July 05, 2012 07:24 PM (6TB1Z)
--------------------------------------------
Yeah. Look what they did to the "New Comments Thingy".
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 03:30 PM (5vyPm)
Yeah. Look what they did to the "New Comments Thingy".
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 07:30 PM (5vyPm)
I still hesitate before I click on "Comments."
Posted by: ErikW at July 05, 2012 03:32 PM (v/QOT)
I always think of the end of Red Storm Rising when the Soviet general comments that if the USSR had disrupted two or three more supply runs, then the war would have ended differently and the US general thinks to himself, try one.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at July 05, 2012 03:34 PM (Gk3SS)
Come on. The Geneva Conventions have clearly outlawed Pixy warfare and no American would use it against another even in a civil war.
Posted by: andycanuck at July 05, 2012 03:38 PM (nrW1y)
Posted by: andycanuck at July 05, 2012 03:39 PM (nrW1y)
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 03:46 PM (5vyPm)
We will be sending over our 13,000 pages of regulations dealing with you shortly, Utah.
Posted by: Axelrod and Jarrett Braintrust, Inc. at July 05, 2012 03:54 PM (wAQA5)
Interesting story of the so-called poloniem poisening of Arafart over at HA. Seems as though polonium rapidly loses it's half-life.
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 07:46 PM (5vyPm)
I remember the KGB guy getting whacked with Polonium 210. That's how "they" got Arafat?
Interesting.
Posted by: ErikW at July 05, 2012 03:54 PM (v/QOT)
The "natural" polonium has a short half life, as part of the Uranium decay chain. There is artificial polonium that can have extremely long half life. But you would have to get that from a nuclear lab.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 05, 2012 03:55 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: steevy at July 05, 2012 03:57 PM (Xb3hu)
Interesting.
Posted by: ErikW at July 05, 2012 07:54 PM (v/QOT)
------------------------------------------
Read the article. Arafart probably didn't get whacked with polonium.
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 04:01 PM (5vyPm)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 05, 2012 04:01 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: ArcadeHero at July 05, 2012 04:01 PM (zt7SE)
Posted by: ArcadeHero at July 05, 2012 08:01 PM (zt7SE)
-------------------------------------
Beck had a map at one time showing all the land in the west under fed control. It was certainly more than 50%.
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 04:05 PM (5vyPm)
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 05, 2012 07:11 PM (kSaUf)
Meh. I'll just raise taxes on the rich. Problem solved.
Posted by: Future NYC Mayor Alec Baldwin at July 05, 2012 04:05 PM (0d0K7)
Read the article. Arafart probably didn't get whacked with polonium.
Posted by: Soona at July 05, 2012 08:01 PM (5vyPm)
I avoid Hot Air whenever possible. But if it's interesting, okay.
Posted by: ErikW at July 05, 2012 04:05 PM (v/QOT)
Posted by: steevy at July 05, 2012 04:06 PM (Xb3hu)
Huge PR problem for the PA and much of the Arab world in general. Ginning up a cover story to explain Arafat's death was the apparent rationale for the faked Polonium attack. One big problem with that is why would anyone bother at that point in his life? The Israelis had had countless opportunities to assassinate him and if his former sponsors in the former USSR, who had a history of this form of assassination, wanted him dead, again, why would they wait so long?
Posted by: epobirs at July 05, 2012 04:07 PM (kcfmt)
>>>how long will the civilians stay in NY or Chicago without running water
>>>or electricity?
Given an absence of power, a city begins to die in 12 hours.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 05, 2012 04:09 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Herpglerble at July 05, 2012 04:09 PM (QGwv0)
The assumption has been that after a certain point the Israelis regarded Arafat as more of a detriment to his own people than to them.
Posted by: epobirs at July 05, 2012 04:09 PM (kcfmt)
There is artificial polonium that can have extremely long half life.
</blockquote>
But it would not be as toxic. It is the alpha radiation from Po210 that is so toxic. Po209, for example, would kill like lead and arsenic do ... from heavy metal poisoning, not from alpha radiation like Po210 does.
It could take years to kill someone from Po209 but a microgram of Po210 is fatal.
Posted by: crosspatch at July 05, 2012 04:09 PM (ZbLJZ)
"I avoid Hot Air whenever possible. But if it's interesting, okay."
Nevermind. It was just fucking annoying.
Posted by: ErikW at July 05, 2012 04:10 PM (v/QOT)
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at July 05, 2012 04:13 PM (d6QMz)
This depends a lot on what type of Polonium they isolate. If it's Po-210 it's a hoax, it is too short lived to detect this far along.
If it's Po-209 it was either us, or someone we feel comfortable selling radioactive sources to.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 05, 2012 04:13 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at July 05, 2012 08:13 PM (d6QMz)
--------------------------------------------
But it doesn't look like a tax tax.
Posted by: Whoopi Goldberg at July 05, 2012 04:17 PM (5vyPm)
Posted by: steevy at July 05, 2012 04:22 PM (Xb3hu)
Posted by: rickl at July 05, 2012 04:25 PM (sdi6R)
On OCare... if I was the House Repubs, I'd pass a Bill saying OCare was NOT a Tax.
Dems would HAVE to vote for it.
Then get the Senate Repubs to fillibuster everything until it gets a vote in the Senate... where dems would HAVE to vote for it....
Then... onto Obamas Desk... where he either lied to us and it is a Tax increase, so he vetos.... or he signs...
Now... Once Law? As OCare is NOT a Tax as defined by the Congress and Prezzy.... it becomes UnConstitutional...
Yes..... its a Trap....
Posted by: Romeo13 at July 05, 2012 04:27 PM (lZBBB)
you're overthinking things son.
Posted by: JDP at July 05, 2012 08:28 PM (60GaT)
Oh... Dad? Back from Heaven? Because Mom's in the other room.... soooo..
Sorry... but I find being called 'Son' pretty dam demeaning...
Posted by: Romeo13 at July 05, 2012 04:30 PM (lZBBB)
Posted by: rickl at July 05, 2012 04:30 PM (sdi6R)
You misunderstand. When I said why would they wait so long I meant why would they not have done this when Arafat was an active player whose demise could have been useful to Western interests?
If Arafat was assassinated it is more likely someone looking to gain power in the PA was the culprit. Note that Arafat was shipped off the France to treatment rather than any friendly Arab capital where they'd likely have little expertise on dealing with advanced AIDS-related infections.
Perhaps it was an assassination ploy that took too long to pay off. Someone might have slipped him an infected boytoy in the early 80s in the hope he'd only last a few years.
Posted by: epobirs at July 05, 2012 04:36 PM (kcfmt)
Jailer this Fed guy keeps falling down and now he broke both legs and can't get up!
Posted by: ConcealedKerry or SubMitt at July 05, 2012 04:38 PM (nonzP)
That requires far more functioning testes than the GOP leadership has among them. Otherwise the thing would never have passed in the first place with all the bizarre chicanery that was applied.
In a sane world, the Speaker who said, "We have to pass the bill to find out what is in it," would have to abdicate and go into hiding to avoid angry mobs. That quote still makes me seethe.
Posted by: epobirs at July 05, 2012 04:40 PM (kcfmt)
They've been floating that bill in both houses for years.
It never gets anywhere. BLM just decided to enforce it as if it was law. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on.
Posted by: ChrisP at July 05, 2012 04:43 PM (626PS)
For years, the only commercial source of Po-210 has been Russia.
It was food poisoning - Arafat was killed by an infected can.
Posted by: Wm T Sherman at July 05, 2012 04:44 PM (8hBZi)
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 04:46 PM (QupBk)
If you tallied all the testicles of the entire establishment RINO
leaders, you would not be able to get a pair!
Posted by: Hrothgar Now with CJSC Approved Serf Status at July 05, 2012 04:47 PM (i3+c5)
Posted by: Hrothgar Now with CJSC Approved Serf Status at July 05, 2012 04:48 PM (i3+c5)
The spirit has departed but the stench remains. This is a dead thread.
Posted by: toby928© at July 05, 2012 08:46 PM (QupBk)
Don't use the word "dead." Say "hamburger time," instead.
Posted by: William Murderface at July 05, 2012 04:59 PM (0d0K7)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 05, 2012 05:01 PM (tktmh)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 05, 2012 05:03 PM (r4wIV)
Posted by: awkward davies at July 05, 2012 05:12 PM (Jp1VY)
"If you don't like them creating an authority over you by decree (or apparent conspiracy), you must sue. Your choice is either to sue, or to submit to an illegal authority that doesn't really exist in the first place. That seems fair, eh?"
Sorry for having to point this out but there is another way.... which is why various mafias exist throughout the world.
Posted by: john b at July 05, 2012 05:14 PM (lV2vw)
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at July 05, 2012 05:18 PM (d6QMz)
Posted by: EROWMER at July 05, 2012 05:26 PM (sIm3i)
When does a state forest become a national forest?
When the BLM says so, and if you don't like it, they force you to submit, or spend millions fighting them in court.
In the state I live in, they pull the switcheroo all the time.
Hey got a forest fire in there?
Ahh hell, that's a state forest! You pay for the fire crews!
Oh wait someone wants to log in that "state" forest, BLM says NO! Why? Fuck you that's why!
Posted by: Courtesy Flush at July 05, 2012 05:26 PM (sw9Gv)
Posted by: lowandslow at July 05, 2012 05:30 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: DAve at July 05, 2012 05:31 PM (h+/7G)
Posted by: DAve at July 05, 2012 09:31 PM (h+/7G) "
And they shouldn't own any save a few isolated federal parks.
Posted by: lowandslow at July 05, 2012 05:32 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: robtr at July 05, 2012 05:33 PM (MtwBb)
Posted by: Jean at July 05, 2012 05:44 PM (OIJP7)
Eyes on the prize, people, eyes on the prizes. Which is the White House and Congress, not one Supreme Court ruling on a law a Republican Congress and President can throw out anyway.
Posted by: Greg Q at July 05, 2012 05:51 PM (y88kw)
I have to agree.
We have to be ever watchful NOT to ge side-tracked with issues that may turn out to be false flags.
We will deal with BLM, EPA, and those other Fed agencies (NEA,HLS, just wait ...) When we have ALL of the houses in our hands and ONLY then!
"EYES ON THE PRIZE!!"
Posted by: Richard the (....) at July 05, 2012 06:11 PM (fjxG4)
Nowadays, you are probably right. But what a lot of people don't know, is Utah did fight the Feds AND they WON! I shit you not. You can find it on Wiki: the Utah War.
It was a guerrilla war. There were no direct battles. The Mormons stripped the land of animals, crops and left not a blade of grass for forage for the army horses. They harassed the army by moving small bands of men around the hills, thus giving the appearance of a large fighting force. THE MORMONS, USING PICKS AND SHOVELS, REROUTED THE CREEK FOR MILES, IN IMMIGRATION CANYON; GIVING THE ARMY NO WAY INTO THE VALLEY.
The army went away defeated. However, they returned later, peacefully, and took over the government of the valley from Brigham Young. Which the Mormons just ignored anyway, and continued to go to Young.
Posted by: Alaskan Warthog at July 05, 2012 10:03 PM (Q0asy)
You would have to be utterly nuts, totally insane, completely bonkers, to pay any bit of creedence to the idea environutjob bureaucrats across this country are slowly pushing toward Agenda 21. That's what I think, it's completely crazy to say things like that.
Posted by: entropy at July 06, 2012 05:42 AM (TULs6)
We don't just need the Individual Mandate and ObamaCare tossed, we need Obama gone.
We don't just need Obama gone, buddy.
Posted by: entropy at July 06, 2012 05:45 AM (TULs6)
Posted by: Affenhauer at July 06, 2012 05:59 AM (7QZ6R)
Posted by: entropy at July 06, 2012 06:00 AM (TULs6)
I knew that -- my question is 'why'.
And why does Utah - or any state - tolerate it when it goes against their interests?
Posted by: Affenhauer at July 06, 2012 06:24 AM (7QZ6R)
I knew that -- my question is 'why'.
Ostensibly, for environut reasons. To preserve our treasures for future generations.
why does Utah - or any state - tolerate it when it goes against their interests?
I don't know about Utah specifically, but most of them are hooked on free money from Uncle Sugar. If they don't toe the line, the Soma is liable to be cut off and then half the states would be long past bankrupt.
You're not really in a position to start calling the shots and defy the feds while you are at the same time begging them for sustenance money.
Posted by: entropy at July 06, 2012 08:39 AM (TULs6)
Listen Dad, I don't care what you say I AM going out tonight!
So can I please have $15 for gas so I can defy you?
Posted by: entropy at July 06, 2012 08:41 AM (TULs6)
Posted by: entropy at July 06, 2012 08:43 AM (TULs6)
Posted by: rightlysouthern(aim low boys,but don`t shoot the ponies) at July 09, 2012 07:15 AM (VbDc+)
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Posted by: dave bowman at July 05, 2012 01:15 PM (evdj2)