November 30, 2012
— Ace Charles Krauthammer calls for it.
t's not just a bad deal, this is really an insulting deal. What Geithner offered, what you showed on the screen, Robert E. Lee was offered easier terms at Appomattox, and he lost the Civil War. The Democrats won by 3% of the vote and they did not hold the House, Republicans won the house. So this is not exactly unconditional surrender, but that is what the administration is asking of the Republicans.This idea -- there are not only no cuts in this, there's an increase in spending with a new stimulus. I mean, this is almost unheard of. What do they expect? They obviously expect the Republicans will cave on everything. I think the Republicans ought to simply walk away. The president is the president. He's the leader. They are demanding that the Republicans explain all the cuts that they want to make.
The Walk Away/Let It Burn option is growing on people. One cautionary note, though: This will provoke a serious constitutional crisis and may undo the Republic. So a soft Let it Burn could turn into a genuine collapse of the Republic.
Obama is a tyrant. If Republicans do not lift the debt ceiling, it is perfectly obvious what he will do, as he's argued for it before: Like Putin, he will begin unilaterally asserting power he doesn't have.
And what will be the recourse? Court, I suppose. Impeachment, sure, but Democrats will block conviction. So whether or not the President can suddenly assert sweeping power over the purse -- sweeping aside the last real check on his power granted to the House of Representatives -- will depend on the vote of Justice Go Along to Get Along Roberts.
Just something to keep in mind. Tyrants are always looking for pretexts to rule without any check.
Posted by: Ace at
10:59 AM
| Comments (461)
Post contains 313 words, total size 2 kb.
Posted by: Tobacco Road at November 30, 2012 11:02 AM (4Mv1T)
Posted by: Colonel Pooteh at November 30, 2012 11:03 AM (FEDb1)
Posted by: Thunderb at November 30, 2012 11:03 AM (Dnbau)
The Patient has been comatose for a long time.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 30, 2012 11:04 AM (JEpGb)
Posted by: MJ at November 30, 2012 11:04 AM (TR60b)
What happens if the debt ceiling isn't raised? No more money is appropriated, the checks stop going out? Does it happen all at once, or gradually?
Posted by: Amichel at November 30, 2012 11:04 AM (xZ8Ay)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 11:04 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: Thunderb at November 30, 2012 11:04 AM (Dnbau)
Posted by: KG at November 30, 2012 11:05 AM (p7BzH)
Posted by: Truman North at November 30, 2012 11:06 AM (I2LwF)
I'll whip this out for everyone one last time
Oh the economy is frightful
But obama is so delightful
The voters show no concern
Let it burn, let it burn, let it burn
**************************
It doesn't show signs of stopping
U.S. credit rating dropping
See the money presses churn
Let it burn, let it burn, let it burn
**************************
U.S. debt climbs way out of sight
High unemployment the new norm
Poverty will grip us so tight
We'll burn our pets to stay warm
***************************
Nation is slowly dying
Brainless sheep are multiplying
Sanity they like to spurn
Let it burn, let it burn, let it burn
Posted by: Hard Right at November 30, 2012 11:06 AM (uhftQ)
Posted by: Andy at November 30, 2012 11:06 AM (C/NnJ)
Bummer.
Posted by: george at November 30, 2012 03:05 PM (qBLA2)
Yup. Feature, not a bug.
Posted by: eastvalleyphx just loves him some LIB at November 30, 2012 11:07 AM (GRvW4)
I believe that's the entire premise of "Let it Burn".
The press does not care if TFG starts to assume power he does not have. They won't call him on it, nor will any dem lawmaker have the balls to throw up roadblocks or challenge him. It will be a free-for-all. A dem free-for-all. This is exactly what people need to see. They need to see what their pols do when they have total and absolute power; see how they behave.
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 11:07 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Justamom at November 30, 2012 11:07 AM (Sptt8)
I'd love to year your analysis of how the current direction doesn't lead to a genuine collapse of the Republic.
Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at November 30, 2012 11:08 AM (Qxe/p)
"One cautionary note, though: This will provoke a serious constitutional crisis and may undo the Republic."
A Republic? Where? Anyone else see a Republic around here?
I see a Social Democracy with a big 'ol nasty Fascist tumor on it, but I don't see a Republic anywhere.
Posted by: Jaws at November 30, 2012 11:09 AM (4I3Uo)
DC is the last place you want to march on when the Burn happens. Preferably, you will have vacated that shithole for the burbs.
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 11:09 AM (GQ8sn)
Oh the economy is frightful
But obama is so delightful
The voters show no concern
Let it burn, let it burn, let it burn
*********************************************************************
It doesn't show signs of stopping
U.S. credit rating dropping
See the money presses churn
Let it burn, let it burn, let it burn
********************************************************************
U.S. debt climbs way out of sight
High unemployment the new norm
Poverty will grip us so tight
We'll burn our pets to stay warm
********************************************************************
Nation is slowly dying
Brainless sheep are multiplying
Sanity they like to spurn
Let it burn, let it burn, let it burn
Posted by: Hard Right at November 30, 2012 11:09 AM (uhftQ)
During the past gov shut downs it was a sudden work stoppage, IIRC. SocSecurity checks and some other entitlements still continue to be sent, but all 'non-essential' offices close.
I think Obama will tell the Treasury to continue with operations as normal, even if it means forcing IOU notices as payment.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 30, 2012 11:09 AM (JEpGb)
Posted by: MrCaniac at November 30, 2012 11:10 AM (Zd/NW)
Posted by: Yip at November 30, 2012 11:11 AM (/jHWN)
Posted by: george at November 30, 2012 11:11 AM (qBLA2)
Posted by: izoneguy at November 30, 2012 11:11 AM (oKH8p)
During the past gov shut downs it was a sudden work stoppage, IIRC. SocSecurity checks and some other entitlements still continue to be sent, but all 'non-essential' offices close.
It was only depts that impacted national security and public safety that were allowed to operate (FBI, CIA, military, FDA, FAA, etc).
In a sense, this is exactly what we want to happen with any government. It's our perfect operating model.
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 11:11 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: KG at November 30, 2012 11:11 AM (p7BzH)
Hide out in Canada. Just like the Democrat representatives did in Wisconsin.
Posted by: i am mad as hell - period at November 30, 2012 11:11 AM (cgxNI)
Posted by: Not Ready To Unsock at November 30, 2012 11:11 AM (BgIBZ)
Posted by: Pass-around sockpuppet #1 at November 30, 2012 11:11 AM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: Raquel at November 30, 2012 11:11 AM (IJOxR)
Posted by: Justamom at November 30, 2012 11:11 AM (Sptt8)
When they come for our 401k's and we all go to the camps protesting, what is the secret sign of Morons? I keep forgetting. I may find an Ace of Spades card to carry around.
Posted by: ChristyBlinky, raving lunatic about Benghazi at November 30, 2012 11:11 AM (baL2B)
Posted by: MJ at November 30, 2012 11:11 AM (TR60b)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 11:12 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: mr_jack at November 30, 2012 11:12 AM (TMG3G)
GOP will be declared a terrorist organization by 2015, so no worries about an (R) president getting in again.
Posted by: Blanco Basura at November 30, 2012 11:12 AM (4WhSY)
Posted by: Thunderb at November 30, 2012 11:12 AM (Dnbau)
Not sure about this, but I think what happens is that the deal reached last year goes into effect. Tax rates go back up, for everyone, and there are across-the-board spending "cuts" (which I think are merely reductions in future increases).
Posted by: angler at November 30, 2012 11:13 AM (SwjAj)
>>One cautionary note, though: This will provoke a serious constitutional crisis and may undo the Republic.
Tree of liberty, blood of tyrants, etc.
Posted by: LibertarianJim (team #letitburn) at November 30, 2012 11:13 AM (WDCYi)
I prefer to think of it as giving him his own rope.
Posted by: Zharkov at November 30, 2012 11:13 AM (wpsz3)
That is just so... cute.
Posted by: Duh! at November 30, 2012 11:13 AM (Zs83Q)
Posted by: Raquel at November 30, 2012 11:13 AM (IJOxR)
I ceased caring on November 7, 2012, when I realized that over half of the folks sharing in this little experiment are willing to turn people like me into slaves - just so they might have their Obamaphones and free birth control.
Fuck it. And fuck them.
*anybody got a match?
Posted by: eastvalleyphx just loves him some LIB at November 30, 2012 11:13 AM (GRvW4)
Since the Libs own the media and the schools, and since the GOP leadership has repeatedly demonstrated lack of principle (or flagrant naivete, I don't know which is worse), we cannot expect things to get better through the normal processes of rational democracy. The best we can do is try to force Libs to drop the mask and hope that enough people still recognize what's behind it.
This is better done sooner than later, since the later it gets, the more the public will be ground down into submissive dependency by the bad economy and those institutions of propaganda such that they will actually beg for and support a true tyrant.
Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 30, 2012 11:13 AM (/GSyX)
Posted by: SpasticToad at November 30, 2012 11:13 AM (Zewfw)
We elect a GOP President in 16, he can be a tyrant for us.
Aside from the fact that the press won't be compliant and there would be no election in 2016 (at least not a valid one), that's like saying the Gracchii were OK because Sulla came after.
Posted by: imp at November 30, 2012 11:14 AM (UaxA0)
Posted by: urn baby burn at November 30, 2012 11:14 AM (T0JWk)
You got two choices: either us or the Norwegians...
Posted by: the Swiss at November 30, 2012 11:14 AM (Dll6b)
Posted by: yankefifth at November 30, 2012 11:15 AM (Z9EHQ)
We're five weeks out from the "fiscal cliff deadline," and itÂ’s becoming apparent one of AmericaÂ’s two political parties has to give.
One has to level with the people about the choices that lie ahead, face up to the results of the election, cease considering itself bound by promises to outsiders and commit itself, finally, to finding a durable solution.
And that party is the Democratic Party.
Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at November 30, 2012 11:15 AM (e8kgV)
The smarter ones will care. Because unless there is a coup d'etat, we will be back in power eventually and we'll be angry. They've played this game so far because there were no penalties to doing so, but those days are fast disappearing.
Posted by: pep at November 30, 2012 11:16 AM (6TB1Z)
Thomas Jefferson
Someday, before it's too late, hopefully, we'll wake the fuck up and remember that we're not inbred European peasants with no option but to bow our heads and tug our forelocks to whatever our "betters" demand.
Posted by: Grimmy at November 30, 2012 11:16 AM (uUsh9)
But I don't believe that is ALL we should, or can, do. We have to propose a better course of action, and hammer home why it is a better solution.
We need to win this argument, sell ourselves to the voters, and not just walk away and allow ourselves to be portrayed as "obstructionists".
Mi dos centavos...
Posted by: Tex Lovera at November 30, 2012 11:16 AM (wtvvX)
Posted by: Raquel at November 30, 2012 11:17 AM (IJOxR)
Posted by: yankefifth at November 30, 2012 11:17 AM (Z9EHQ)
Posted by: Witchfinder at November 30, 2012 11:17 AM (pLTLS)
So.... Lefties wouldn't poke the bear for fear the bear would rip its throat out - remember that post? And no, we didn't do anything then, either.
Ace, you did say so. You even said here's where we'd end up.
Where's the next stop, anyway?
Posted by: uterus cannon at November 30, 2012 11:17 AM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: Texas Ranger at November 30, 2012 11:18 AM (IvvrO)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 30, 2012 11:18 AM (piMMO)
As to ace: surely you realize that we're already on the eve of the undoing of the Republic. Obama taking that pretext to rule without any check, as you say, would simply have everything on the table with no further deceit.
Posted by: Kinley Ardal, enemy of Sanger 'til doomsday at November 30, 2012 11:18 AM (R8Rbc)
and government! Much, much government
Posted by: the Europeans at November 30, 2012 11:19 AM (Dll6b)
Posted by: MrCaniac at November 30, 2012 11:19 AM (Zd/NW)
The Republic is already dead.
Posted by: wolfwalker at November 30, 2012 11:19 AM (7udnM)
Posted by: angienc at November 30, 2012 11:19 AM (w3JGl)
Posted by: rickl at November 30, 2012 11:19 AM (zoehZ)
Posted by: Minuteman at November 30, 2012 11:19 AM (qs9G3)
Posted by: Thunderb at November 30, 2012 11:19 AM (Dnbau)
Posted by: Andy at November 30, 2012 03:06 PM (C/NnJ)
Is abortion an option? I might be pro choice in this case.
Really though, we're going to have this constitutional crisis sooner or later anyway. Might as well get it over with while we still have a shot in the courts...
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 30, 2012 11:20 AM (t06LC)
Posted by: evil Libertarian at November 30, 2012 11:20 AM (2esTv)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 11:20 AM (jUytm)
re: "unless there is a coup d'etat, we will be back in power eventually and we'll be angry."
Who's "we"? Did "we" use Lincoln's, Wilson's, and FDR's expanded powers to do what "we" want?
"We" is Nixon and Bush.
*We* have no access to power.
There's no such thing as a controlled Burn, and nothing is ever undone.
Posted by: oblig. at November 30, 2012 11:21 AM (cePv8)
Posted by: Justamom at November 30, 2012 11:22 AM (Sptt8)
Posted by: Cobalt Shiva at November 30, 2012 11:22 AM (OY/SZ)
Posted by: Deli LLama at November 30, 2012 11:23 AM (lGu1O)
Lefties for decades have had a hard on for the "revolution" by the "masses."
So are they ready for the real deal?
Posted by: YIKES! at November 30, 2012 11:23 AM (mETGQ)
@84
I tnd to agree with you. What Roberts wanted was a political solution to avoid the Roe-like reaction a supreme court strikedown of obamacare would have. He tried to soften the effects and add the medicaid poison pill JIC it wasn't taken out with President Romney, but we'll see how that works.
I disagree with him and think he should have stood on principal, damn the consequences, but I also don't think he's all tyranny all the time.
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 30, 2012 11:24 AM (t06LC)
Posted by: Matt at November 30, 2012 11:24 AM (5v/kf)
Posted by: beach at November 30, 2012 11:24 AM (LpQbZ)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 30, 2012 11:24 AM (piMMO)
Posted by: yankefifth at November 30, 2012 11:25 AM (Z9EHQ)
If you order your guns today...
You started 22 days late.
Posted by: John P. Squibob at November 30, 2012 11:25 AM (kqqGm)
Posted by: logprof at November 30, 2012 11:25 AM (gBuIk)
Posted by: Thunderb at November 30, 2012 11:25 AM (Dnbau)
1) Goes to the courts. Congress is telling the Executive to spend $$$$ money but only giving the Executive $$ money to spend. Conflicting laws (one active, one restrictive).
2) Fed prints money and gives it to the gov't to spend. My 'stagflation prediction' from 4 years ago finally comes true. Yay!
3) Obama continues his lawless trend and just tells the Treasury to offer more Bonds in the debt market. Who's going to arrest Geithner or Obama? No one. Who has standing to sue in court? No one (maybe some Party of Stupid elected official with no balls.)
4) Obama continues his lawless trend and just tells the checks to go out. Most money is fictional nowadays. It's all digitial, there's no balancing against actual greenbacks in a vault somewhere. The US Gov't books maybe get 'fake balanced' or just go in the shitter. No one will care or notice. Who looks at that shit? The MSM? hahaha!
5) List doesn't need to be longer since the GOP always caves.
Posted by: Tonic Dog at November 30, 2012 11:25 AM (X/+QT)
What's the Constitutional crisis?
If the debt ceiling is hit, the Treasury can't borrow any more money, period. Nobody will buy Treasury bills of questionable legality. That's one place the markets still rule, there has to be a buyer for bonds and those bonds have to be unquestionably legal or the investors will not buy them. The only way to make them unquestionably legal is for Congress to authorize them.
Posted by: rockmom at November 30, 2012 11:26 AM (qE3AR)
Posted by: yankefifth at November 30, 2012 03:17 PM (Z9EHQ)
I actually have thought about it. Not worried. Rifles, blades of grass, some Jap a few years ago.
Posted by: eastvalleyphx just loves him some LIB at November 30, 2012 11:26 AM (GRvW4)
"I am fine with walking away and I am fine with going to the mat, however, the talk of letting it burn and welcoming a constitutional crisis is a little cavalier. Nothing wrong with bold actions but do not take them lightly."
Cavalier?
Lemme put it this way. I'm at the point where if some state - TX, UT, wherever - legitamately and officially says "FU FedGov! We're going our own way and starting over from scratch with Liberty as our guiding star" I'm gone. I'll sell my paid-off house for a pittance or burn it to the ground if I had to, load the truck like the Beverly effing Hillbillies, and hit the road. I'll live in a damned tent if I had to.
Our Founders and original Patriots risked a lot more over a lot less. They had their Intolerable Acts and we have our own.
Posted by: Jaws at November 30, 2012 11:26 AM (4I3Uo)
Posted by: Lurker, yo at November 30, 2012 11:26 AM (tl7W6)
Posted by: Daybrother at November 30, 2012 11:26 AM (RoTUp)
Posted by: angienc at November 30, 2012 03:19 PM (w3JGl)
That was a single sentence. It may have even been grammatically correct.
That would be the only correct part.
Posted by: fluffy at November 30, 2012 11:27 AM (3SvjA)
JELLO:
Guys, Zero made a serious mistake. He asked that the debt ceiling power be taken out of Congress and given to the Executive.
OF COURSE, THIS MEANS THAT he does not have that power currently.
that was a very stupid move, I believe, very stupid.
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 30, 2012 11:27 AM (tVTLU)
If the debt ceiling is hit, the Treasury can't borrow any more money, period. Nobody will buy Treasury bills of questionable legality. That's one place the markets still rule, there has to be a buyer for bonds and those bonds have to be unquestionably legal or the investors will not buy them. The only way to make them unquestionably legal is for Congress to authorize them.
Posted by: rockmom at November 30, 2012 03:26 PM (qE3AR)
*gigglesnort*
Posted by: the Federal Reserve at November 30, 2012 11:27 AM (rmdRH)
Posted by: yankefifth at November 30, 2012 11:27 AM (Z9EHQ)
Posted by: mare at November 30, 2012 11:27 AM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Thunderb at November 30, 2012 11:28 AM (Dnbau)
Posted by: logprof at November 30, 2012 11:28 AM (gBuIk)
Posted by: J. Moses Browning at November 30, 2012 11:28 AM (DAfG4)
Who has more firearms?
Conservatives or liberals who espouse the outright ban of owning firearms?
That said, I'm really not worried about Obama seizing power via tyranny. Even he's not stupid or narcissitic enough to try something like that.
Posted by: Hoi Polloi Wingnutia at November 30, 2012 11:28 AM (xvtYZ)
[sometime in the near future]
"That's some barn burner ya got going there, Dems!" [sfx - sluuurrrrrpp] "Luckily I got my Slurpee with me."
Posted by: Count de Monet at November 30, 2012 11:29 AM (BAS5M)
Posted by: Thunderb at November 30, 2012 11:29 AM (Dnbau)
Posted by: flmom at November 30, 2012 11:29 AM (nSjrf)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 30, 2012 11:29 AM (piMMO)
Posted by: Tonic Dog at November 30, 2012 11:29 AM (X/+QT)
Posted by: LASue at November 30, 2012 11:30 AM (gjIQF)
Posted by: beach at November 30, 2012 11:30 AM (LpQbZ)
Posted by: dfbaskwill at November 30, 2012 11:30 AM (ndlFj)
The FED will call of Timmy and tell him to print more money. Timmy will give the money to the FED. The FED will take the newly printed bills along with other bills they already have, call of various intermediaries that they have and tell them to buy the bonds with the bills that the FED gives them, for the FED.
Timmy has more money and the FED holds the bonds.
If you're shocked by this don't be. Bernanke has been doing this for some time.
Posted by: John P. Squibob at November 30, 2012 11:30 AM (kqqGm)
Posted by: Stu-22 at November 30, 2012 11:30 AM (AiYlm)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 30, 2012 11:30 AM (piMMO)
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at November 30, 2012 11:31 AM (IH2b5)
If he crosses certain lines the House could ask SCOTUS for a ruling against his EO's.
However, SCOTUS can't enforce SC rulings. So it would be back to the Congress to do all of nothing. The House could put all Federal agency money in suspense I suppose, but like I wrote above, Obama could order that Federal IOU's are to be accepted and used in the meantime.
I doubt the GOP will have gone to those lengths, and, ultimately, once Obama announces on a live TV broadcast for all citizens to harass the GOP, the GOP will fold.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 30, 2012 11:31 AM (JEpGb)
Posted by: yankefifth at November 30, 2012 11:31 AM (Z9EHQ)
One reason I don't ascribe to the "give Obama whatever he wants" school of thought is that the economy is slowly starting to revive, mostly because the housing market has finally hit bottom and is crawling back to life. If we give Obama what he wants on taxes and spending, then the liberals will crow for another generation about how their policy of higher taxes and more spending works and lower taxes don't produce economic growth.
Posted by: rockmom at November 30, 2012 11:31 AM (NYnoe)
Posted by: Thunderb at November 30, 2012 11:31 AM (Dnbau)
Posted by: ejo at November 30, 2012 11:32 AM (GXvSO)
Bonus points for letting it burn.
All these fuckheads around the world that support scoamf go down to.
Posted by: YIKES! at November 30, 2012 11:32 AM (mETGQ)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 11:32 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 30, 2012 11:33 AM (QupBk)
What makes it all so hard to take is that it is more or less what the most dire predictions were back when I was in high school, during the Ford/Carter years. The. Most. Dire. The predictions that even I, who was a conservative back then as well, laughed at.
And to think I scrupulously avoided drug and alcohol abuse all that time! What a waste.
Posted by: Otis Criblecoblis at November 30, 2012 11:33 AM (IlZPo)
Posted by: beach at November 30, 2012 11:33 AM (LpQbZ)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 11:34 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: Sukie Tawdry at November 30, 2012 11:34 AM (MPtFW)
What happens if the debt ceiling isn't raised?
The sled concession in Jellystone will be halted.
Posted by: Ronster at November 30, 2012 11:34 AM (nQMHQ)
Sadly, I believe that to be a completely accurate characterization.
He's never worked at a real job in his life. He's baffled as to why he should have to start now.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 30, 2012 11:35 AM (sbV1u)
Posted by: wg at November 30, 2012 11:35 AM (mXRhV)
Thunderb:
Exactly!! And his statement to Russia's PM that this is his "last election" also is very good.
He has admitted that Congress controls the debt ceiling. The more I see it, the more I think the GOP HAS ALL THE POWER HERE. The GOP was very very smart to focus and cave on some revenue.
NOW IT'S UP TO THE LEFTIES TO GET REAL ON CUTS. This is the fucking debate that we should have been having this entire fucking election.
So the GOP can say they were willing to raise taxes just to get some kind of sustainable budget deal. They can also say that the demorats proposed NOTHING.
So let America feel the pain of the fucking welfare state. Let all taxes go in and deep cuts happen. And then REFUSE to raise the fucking debt ceiling one fucking penny.
And the demorats refusal to act like fucking adults will finally come home to roost. But REPEAT the message over and over and over and over:
demorats refuse to act like adults and try to balance the budget. PERIOD.
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 30, 2012 11:35 AM (tVTLU)
... okay, name just one
... Posted by: soothsayer
7 new states is pretty damned original.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 30, 2012 11:35 AM (JEpGb)
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at November 30, 2012 11:35 AM (IH2b5)
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 30, 2012 11:36 AM (t06LC)
...
okay, name just one
...
Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 03:34 PM (jUytm)
He picked the paste eater for Vice President.
Does that count?
Posted by: YIKES! at November 30, 2012 11:36 AM (mETGQ)
Posted by: rockmom at November 30, 2012 11:36 AM (qE3AR)
Only Trashcan man can save us now.
Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at November 30, 2012 11:36 AM (epxV4)
Posted by: Minuteman at November 30, 2012 11:36 AM (qs9G3)
Posted by: Daybrother at November 30, 2012 11:36 AM (RoTUp)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 30, 2012 11:37 AM (QupBk)
Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at November 30, 2012 11:37 AM (QxSug)
Posted by: Daybrother at November 30, 2012 11:38 AM (RoTUp)
Posted by: beach at November 30, 2012 11:38 AM (LpQbZ)
Posted by: logprof at November 30, 2012 11:38 AM (gBuIk)
Yes, and by the way, I think it's time to start a:
BOYCOTT MINNESOTA
Movement. Those fucks couldn't even get it right with Reagan.
So fuck those stupid honkies, I hope they all drown in their shitty lakes!!!
BOYCOTT MINNESOTA - Land of stupid white people that vote for the ghetto everytime....
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 30, 2012 11:38 AM (tVTLU)
The Congress shall have Power... To borrow Money on the credit of the United States...
Not exactly sure why any District Court Judge asked to issue an injunction against the President for trying to borrow money above the debt ceiling enacted by Congress wouldn't do so. If the Constitution doesn't prohibit the President from doing that, then we don't have a Constitution anymore.
Posted by: The Regular Guy at November 30, 2012 11:38 AM (qHCyt)
Posted by: rockmom at November 30, 2012 03:31 PM (NYnoe)
One problem, the housing market hasn't hit bottom yet. Banks are holding off putting their foreclosed inventory on the market. Once those go on the market, prices will fall again.
Posted by: MrCaniac at November 30, 2012 11:38 AM (Zd/NW)
OK, That made me LOL.
Which I seriously neede after the last thread.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 30, 2012 11:38 AM (sbV1u)
Posted by: Adam_ME at November 30, 2012 11:39 AM (m0Jrn)
Posted by: rockmom at November 30, 2012 11:39 AM (qE3AR)
Conservatives or liberals who espouse the outright ban of owning firearms?
That said, I'm really not worried about Obama seizing power via tyranny. Even he's not stupid or narcissitic enough to try something like that.
+++
LOL. I work part time at a tv station. One morning, on the air, one of our weekend anchors, who also has a radio gig, mentioned that he hates guns, is afraid of them and won't have them in his house.
Camera guy- black man- and I looked at each other, and have decided that when the sh*t hits the fan, we're going to hit the anchors house first. And we won't even need a gun, we can just use our fingers under our coat.
Posted by: shibumi at November 30, 2012 11:39 AM (z63Tr)
That's about to change. Hopefully most here understand this isn't a conspiratorial rant. As a scholar in political theory and one who has particularly studied the transformations and the state of exception in both the Soviet revolutions and the German seizure of the Weimar state, I'm quite aware not only of this willful direction, but know it is well studied by several of Obama's principle advisers.
Second term is where the state as we know it will be suspended and "transformed" to a "more effective system that represents the needs of the people." Obama's had other tells and warnings of this when he's been in foreign lands accepting of this totalitarian, single-party rule (e.g. China). He merely needs the crisis now to issue the orders and will either get the right to totally give into his absurd demands (leading to accelerated economic collapse) or he'll spring it now. Either way, Second Revolution is assured.
Sadly, the people of the United States (the top 2% and the bottom 50%) desire this as they seek certainty now above all else. That's all it takes to finish what the 100 Year Progressive Pre-Reich prepared for. There's really nothing the hopeless Republicans can do other than appease. Did you wonder why Romney went to Obama's office? Why Boehner is lacking a spine? They just hope to have some bureaucratic position in the new Obama Soviet Republic and keep as much of their personal wealth as they can.
It's no longer about the middle class. You lost in the election.
Posted by: Multitude at November 30, 2012 11:39 AM (bpONz)
1. The high-risk one is to pass an extension of all the tax cuts, watch Senate Democrats block it, watch tax rates rise for everyone, and try to blame Obama and the Democrats for this result.
2. The low-risk one is to pass an extension of the middle-class tax cuts, which presumably the Democrats would have to pass, and watch taxes for high earners rise. That way at least Republicans wouldnÂ’t get blamed for middle-class tax increases.
Ramesh likes the 2nd option so I'm assuming this is a lock for the Party of Stupid. Oh, I'm sure they'll throw in some additional concessions too. And if they don't resolve the debt limit, just think, we get to go through this farce again in a few weeks.
Posted by: jeannebodine at November 30, 2012 11:39 AM (48+2q)
Posted by: tasker at November 30, 2012 11:40 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: George Orwell what knows 47% got a fever and Uncle Sugar is the only cure at November 30, 2012 11:40 AM (mukPq)
Posted by: Infidel at November 30, 2012 11:40 AM (O/fK8)
Oh, and nice job on that election America. High five!
Posted by: sgr at November 30, 2012 11:40 AM (xa5GW)
Posted by: Justamom at November 30, 2012 11:40 AM (tWrwm)
Posted by: WalrusRex at November 30, 2012 11:41 AM (hyB08)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 11:41 AM (jUytm)
"Boycotts" are for impotent losers.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 30, 2012 11:41 AM (JEpGb)
The Obama administration has a lot more to fear from an angry populace then the reverse.
I'm all in for this. Let's have the Clinton tax regime again, and let's have Obama take all the "credit".
The GOP isn't being given an inch here, so they should simply walk away. They're going to get the blame anyway, so they might as well accept it, and let the Obama administration shoulder some responsibility for the tax increases Obama has been crowing about for five years now.
Posted by: looking closely at November 30, 2012 11:41 AM (PwGfd)
Posted by: JDTAY at November 30, 2012 11:41 AM (a0nis)
Posted by: Raquel at November 30, 2012 11:42 AM (IJOxR)
Posted by: rockmom at November 30, 2012 11:42 AM (NYnoe)
Posted by: tasker at November 30, 2012 11:42 AM (r2PLg)
Tax increases and sequestration are going to wreck the Republic?
I don't "get" how that's going to happen.
They'll just make a lot of people a LOT more unhappy, which, to my mind, isn't necessarily a bad thing over the LONG term.
Posted by: looking closely at November 30, 2012 11:42 AM (PwGfd)
The sled concession in Jellystone will be halted.
Posted by: Ronster at November 30, 2012 03:34 PM (nQMHQ)
Ranger Smith will not be working, and I get all the pic-a-nic basketsI can!!!!
Posted by: Yogi Bear at November 30, 2012 11:43 AM (Zd/NW)
I'm confused...
Does the 'Let it Burn/Walk Away' scenario involve letting Barky have what he wants?
Because I'm against that.
I'm for letting *all* the Bush Tax Cuts expire.
All of them.
Let taxes go up for everyone, and let the Obots feel some of the pain.
I'm not for raising the Debt Limit either.
It's high enough already.
So is this what is meant by the 'Walk Away' scenario?
Posted by: wheatie at November 30, 2012 11:43 AM (CM59X)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 30, 2012 11:43 AM (/jmMj)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 11:43 AM (jUytm)
Posted by: The Dems, MFM, Hollywood, Academia protecting the scoamf at November 30, 2012 11:44 AM (mETGQ)
Tyrants are always looking for pretexts to rule without any check.
Obama will do this with or without the Republicans' help.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first [/i][/b] at November 30, 2012 11:44 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: MJ at November 30, 2012 11:45 AM (TR60b)
Posted by: Christina Hendricks's Mighty Jugs are Really SMOD in Disguise at November 30, 2012 11:45 AM (v6GqR)
Posted by: booger at November 30, 2012 11:46 AM (HI6wa)
That's my take as well.
For ten years the Democrats have been demogoguing the "Bush tax cuts for the rich". . . OK, lets reverse them, and see how that works out for everyone.
Posted by: looking closely at November 30, 2012 11:46 AM (PwGfd)
So is this what is meant by the 'Walk Away' scenario?
"Walk Away" is the prelude to "Let It Burn". In order for the Burn to happen, TFG has to assume full control and start hitting the ACTIVATE button on all his socialist plans. This is the way the Burn starts.
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 11:46 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at November 30, 2012 11:47 AM (1hM1d)
Posted by: Thunderb at November 30, 2012 11:47 AM (Dnbau)
Posted by: mr_jack at November 30, 2012 11:47 AM (TMG3G)
Weft-cut loop. This is a fun boycott. Really meant to completely make fun of those fucking idiots.
Ramesh P. is a fucking idiot.
If you can't walk away from a deal, then you are getting fucked, not negotiating.
Period.
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 30, 2012 11:47 AM (tVTLU)
Posted by: GalosGann at November 30, 2012 11:47 AM (T3KlW)
Partial lyrics:
We had taxes we had bills
We had a lifestyle of fun
And tonight I swear I'll come home
And we'll make love like we're young
And tomorrow you'll cook dinner
For the neighbors and their kids
We can rip apart those socialists
And all their damn taxes
You see I am no criminal
I'm down on both bad knees
I'm just too much a coward
To admit when I'm in need
http://youtu.be/dZX6Q-Bj_
Posted by: Deli LLama at November 30, 2012 11:47 AM (lGu1O)
i can think of at least one other Constitutional check on your scenario Ace.
Posted by: redc1c4 at November 30, 2012 11:48 AM (8MasJ)
Remember the last couple of debt ceiling increases?
Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at November 30, 2012 11:48 AM (epxV4)
Posted by: JDTAY at November 30, 2012 11:48 AM (a0nis)
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at November 30, 2012 11:48 AM (1hM1d)
"One cautionary note, though: This will provoke a serious constitutional crisis and may undo the Republic. So a soft Let it Burn could turn into a genuine collapse of the Republic."
Seriously, Ace? Letting taxes go up and cutting spending will cause the undoing of the Republic? I assume you're also folding in raising the debt ceiling, but even going over that won't cause us to split asunder. Get a grip.
Anyway, this is just posturing and negotiating on O's part. Even if they don't reach an agreement before the end of the year, they will soon after.
Republicans ought to agree to raising taxes on the high earners in principle, but not pass anything until they get Obama to lay out how he's going to deliver the 2.5 times that amount in budget cuts/entitlement reform he promised while campaigning. This will be like pulling teeth, but after the press and Obama blame them for "wrecking" the economy, they won't get even that when it comes time to finalize a deal.
Alternatively, they could pass the tax increases but go on record that they won't vote to raise the debt ceiling until O agrees to the necessary cuts and reforms. America will see that Congress did what it was asked, while the President failed to do what he promised. Any consequences will be on his head.
Posted by: Pigilito at November 30, 2012 11:48 AM (yw6Yn)
Posted by: MoeRon at November 30, 2012 11:49 AM (PKCB1)
It'd be kinda neat to turn on C-SPAN and see some sorta post-modern Preston Brooks [R-LiB] whaling on some poor sumbich on the Senate floor, wouldn't it?
Posted by: uterus cannon at November 30, 2012 11:49 AM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 11:49 AM (jUytm)
---
Rush enunciated a third option today. And it's perfect. The Donks get to claim they raised taxes. The Rethugs get to claim they didn't. And nobody get hurts except the country, the economy, and the people.
Posted by: WalrusRex at November 30, 2012 11:49 AM (hyB08)
But mark this: there is no easy answer. There is no quick fix. There will be pain. By postponing the pain, we're allowing the next generation(s) to pay that price, and the more we wait, the higher it will be for them.
I for one do not want future generations looking at MY generation the way I currently look at the worthless, useless, gormless 60's generation.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first [/i][/b] at November 30, 2012 11:49 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: MoeRon at November 30, 2012 11:49 AM (PKCB1)
Posted by: Admiral Ackbar at November 30, 2012 11:50 AM (RD7QR)
I don't "get" how that's going to happen.
Because the tax increases and sequestration still bring the prospect of hitting the debt ceiling again. If the GOP held out and refused to increase it, that means government shutdown.
The question is- would Obama try to take things a step further and attempt to bypass Congress completely.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 30, 2012 11:50 AM (SY2Kh)
Obama signed it into law.
He figured he was going to be able to go back later and negotiate better terms.
Of course, he, his party, and the enemedia are going to all try to pin this on the GOP.
The response, practiced and polished and drilled to perfection has to be, from every Republican officeholder and candidate, these words:
"Sequestration is President Obama's idea. Bob Woodward confirms in his latest book that the sequestration scheme came from President Obama's White House in the first place. And sequestration is the plan that President Obama signed into law. If you don't like the consequences of this law, please direct your complaints to President Obama. It was not a Republican idea. It was President Obama's idea."
Make him own it.
Posted by: torquewrench at November 30, 2012 11:50 AM (ymG7s)
i can think of at least one other Constitutional check on your scenario Ace.
Posted by: redc1c4
Heh, we'll see. It's a fine line between treason and upholding the Constitution.
Posted by: SFGoth at November 30, 2012 11:50 AM (dZ756)
Posted by: John Stark Dark at November 30, 2012 11:50 AM (PALjS)
Relatively speaking, Obama's first term will go down as a comedy. The second term will be tragedy.
Can I butcher a quote or what?
Posted by: Count de Monet at November 30, 2012 11:51 AM (BAS5M)
Posted by: Dread Chief Justice Roberts at November 30, 2012 11:51 AM (RoTUp)
Why is this so fucking difficult?????????????
The GOP is in an excellent position. The rats kept bitching that the GOP has refused to raise taxes, period. After the election, the GOP has announced, let's make a deal, we'll cave on our core principle of raising taxes.
THE ONUS IS ON THE DEMORATS. The talking points on this are priceless:
1) Demorats love Clinton so much, what is wrong going back to those tax rates.
2) These taxes are just a taste of what it will cost everyone to fund this fucking welfare state, THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING....
3) We need to make serious cuts, the first place to look is WELFARE..... Demorats won't touch anything and just want to raise taxes. Who is the adult here. We won't do so without balancing the budget.
FUCKING PERIOD. Why are we so scared. This is the moment and we hold ALL THE FUCKING CARDS. Very smart to offer revenue up front. They should be off guard.
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 30, 2012 11:51 AM (tVTLU)
I'm not fond of the "Let it Burn" or "Walk Away" movements, not only for substantive but semantic reasons.
The GOP should simply (1) refuse to raise the debt ceiling; and (2) refuse to support any increase in taxes. If these things happen over GOP objection, fine. We can say we told you so, if anyone is around to listen. But I don't want to be in a position to have to look at the desolation and say "I did this, I let it happen, on purpose."
I much prefer "Stand Your Ground" to "Let it Burn" or "Walk Away."
Posted by: angler at November 30, 2012 11:52 AM (SwjAj)
Posted by: RWC at November 30, 2012 11:52 AM (fWAjv)
Posted by: Minuteman at November 30, 2012 11:52 AM (qs9G3)
Posted by: Ripley at November 30, 2012 11:53 AM (RoTUp)
Obama instructs the secretary of the treasury to ignore the law and acquire more debt, and nobody does a God-damned thing about it.
There's one simple test to judge what Obama will do: ask yourself which approach will tighten the manacles the most. Inevitably, that's the one he'll pick. He talks about Lincoln and FDR, but his real role-model is Robert Mugabe.
Posted by: Brown Line at November 30, 2012 11:53 AM (VrNoa)
Posted by: tasker at November 30, 2012 11:53 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: joncelli at November 30, 2012 11:54 AM (RD7QR)
Posted by: SFGoth at November 30, 2012 11:54 AM (dZ756)
207 #198
That's my take as well.
For ten years the Democrats have been demogoguing the "Bush tax cuts for the rich". . . OK, lets reverse them, and see how that works out for everyone.
------------
Yeah, exactly.
It would be a return to the 'Clinton Tax Rates'.
The Dems still love Clinton, and like to point to the "prosperity of the Clinton years".
So if they try to call it a 'tax hike'....then we should simply point out that it is a return to Clinton's tax rates.
Posted by: wheatie at November 30, 2012 11:54 AM (CM59X)
Posted by: MJ at November 30, 2012 11:55 AM (TR60b)
Posted by: MoeRon at November 30, 2012 11:55 AM (PKCB1)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 30, 2012 11:55 AM (oZ6hC)
Um.... yeah. Might I suggest a different tact... or I might had I still had a head to do so...
Posted by: King Charles I at November 30, 2012 11:56 AM (iJ3YG)
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 30, 2012 11:57 AM (e0xKF)
"its an admission he does not have that power"
"makes it harder to do later on"
Bullshit. He said exactly the same thing about the DREAM act, and look where we are now.
When he changes his mind, who's going to call him on it? The courts? The MFM? Congress? There's conservative media, but it's preaching to the choir.
Posted by: Brown Line at November 30, 2012 11:57 AM (VrNoa)
Posted by: Winston Smith at November 30, 2012 11:57 AM (eZgIK)
Posted by: Mob at November 30, 2012 11:57 AM (9DEGR)
It would take some high powered press or entertainment people on the right in addition to polititians and having some CEOs call for it also. Can you imagine if half of the airline pilots just took a week off? Food distributors?
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 30, 2012 11:58 AM (n/ubI)
Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at November 30, 2012 11:58 AM (ZMzpb)
Posted by: Thunderb at November 30, 2012 11:58 AM (Dnbau)
Posted by: Chester Copperpot at November 30, 2012 11:58 AM (d4C+6)
Posted by: Alte Schule at November 30, 2012 11:59 AM (MLJu8)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 30, 2012 11:59 AM (v8RoL)
Posted by: rplat at November 30, 2012 12:00 PM (ew94K)
There is but one answer to those who would ever seek to placate a would be tyrant.
"What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
If this episode would provoke a crisis in the Republic then the Republic is already in crisis. Any man who facilitates the forging of our chains is a traitor to liberty and should be treated as such.
My children are too young for the fight, regardless of the outcome I would rather it be over before their time. So, if there is to be a fight, let it come. I repeat it, sir, let it come.
Posted by: ThomasD at November 30, 2012 12:00 PM (hpE7B)
we used to go the the Ho for frat mixers, the Hub to get our fortunes told by some freaky fat lady in a wig and mardi gras type beads.. good times. I am so glad that ND has fracking and will weather this stuffPosted by: Thunderb at November 30, 2012 12:00 PM (Dnbau)
208
So is this what is meant by the 'Walk Away' scenario?
"Walk Away" is the prelude to "Let It Burn". In order for the Burn to happen, TFG has to assume full control and start hitting the ACTIVATE button on all his socialist plans. This is the way the Burn starts.
----------
Okay...so 'Walk Away' is basically a stand-your-ground position as well, right?
-- Let the Bush Tax Cuts expire, all of them.
-- No increase in the Debt Limit.
Because I like this scenario.
Posted by: wheatie at November 30, 2012 12:00 PM (CM59X)
"our founding fathers pledged lives fortunes and sacred honor in establishing our country and you seem willing to give it up for a lot less. "
Let me put you some facts:
1. Yes, our FF's pledged those things
2. They pledged it over relatively minor taxation issues that pale in comparison to what we face right now. Stamp Tax? Let's talk about forking over HALF (or more if you figure indirect and hidden taxes) of your income to the F/S/L governments, mostly for the purposes of redistribution. This is and has been complete bullshit for decades. The FF's would have started spilling blood a long time ago.
3. Our FF's gave up what was arguably the greatest standard of living on the planet at the time. Anyone really think our SoL is on the upswing?
4. The things I have - my income, savings, retirement, my house - are being steadily devalued. This trajectory will steepen in the near future to the point where I'm no better off than some welfare broodmare. At some point, you're not giving up a whole lot for a lot less by starting over.
I did my part, played by the rules, lived way below my means, funded my retirement until it hurt, paid off the house by busting my ass...for what? To be called selfish? To have more disposable income available to redistribute? Because it's my duty as an American to bend over and take it in the name of Social Justice? Yeah, fuck that.
Posted by: Jaws at November 30, 2012 12:02 PM (4I3Uo)
I'm sure Mussolini thought the same thing.
Posted by: Winston Smith at November 30, 2012 12:02 PM (eZgIK)
If Obama becomes a tyrant, it'll spark the 2nd American Civil War. Maybe there's no avoiding it anymore, and maybe it's best to just get it over with before a tyrannical federal government (via the UN Small Arms Treaty) tries to disarm us.
Posted by: Naqamel at November 30, 2012 12:02 PM (UMwMT)
Posted by: Alte Schule at November 30, 2012 12:04 PM (MLJu8)
Posted by: MoeRon at November 30, 2012 12:05 PM (PKCB1)
Posted by: Nicki at November 30, 2012 12:05 PM (Xv7f/)
Posted by: yankefifth at November 30, 2012 12:05 PM (Z9EHQ)
Yes. By walking away, the GOP is not approving of anything. No GOP approval = no deal.
The Burn follows.
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 12:05 PM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: KG at November 30, 2012 12:06 PM (p7BzH)
TFG has already issued tons of EO's to bypass Congress, ignores congress with the approval of the MFM, and the public is fine with it as long as the Free Shit river still flows. TFG and his fellow Dems ignore the very laws they impose on the rest of us with no mercy, again with the approval and assistance of the MFM. Any request that they obey the laws they themselves wrote are RACISM !!!11!!!!
Just what are we holding onto here?
Posted by: kbdabear at November 30, 2012 12:06 PM (wwsoB)
****
No. They won't. Unlike some illiterate Chinese or South American hireling, the American soldier will never fire on fellow citizens, no matter what they are ordered to do. Then it will get real interesting.
Posted by: Nicki at November 30, 2012 12:06 PM (Xv7f/)
Posted by: Catmman at November 30, 2012 12:07 PM (C8XlI)
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 30, 2012 12:07 PM (e0xKF)
Let it burn. Screw the takers, and screw the politicians.
Posted by: Morris the Cat at November 30, 2012 12:07 PM (epxV4)
Posted by: MoeRon
****
No. They won't. Unlike some illiterate Chinese or South American hireling, the American soldier will never fire on fellow citizens, no matter what they are ordered to do. Then it will get real interesting.
Posted by: Nicki at November 30, 2012 04:06 PM (Xv7f/)
Ahem!
Posted by: Kent State at November 30, 2012 12:08 PM (EKr9U)
Posted by: yankefifth at November 30, 2012 12:08 PM (Z9EHQ)
Under what kind of orders? Some Pentagon REMF general giving the order to fire upon a protest will be either be relieved or "fragged" by another officer. I believe there are still a great many number of officers in the armed forces who can tell the difference between a pissed of citizen and a dangerous terrorist.
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 12:08 PM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 30, 2012 12:08 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: Naqamel at November 30, 2012 12:08 PM (UMwMT)
Posted by: Alte Schule at November 30, 2012 12:09 PM (MLJu8)
Posted by: Not Ready To Unsock at November 30, 2012 12:10 PM (BgIBZ)
Never let a good crisis go to waste is their motto. Shut down the government and watch 0 just print IOUs and watch life go on with Congress completely out of the spending equation. It would happen. You know it would, the Democrats would declare it is the 'only' option and even FNS would STFU when the word came down. If the other option is obviously chaos and rioting in the streets when the welfare checks suddenly stop you can bet yer ass the powers that be will do whatever it takes to stay on top. And six months later it would be the new normal in exactly the same way that Congress deciding for the first time that a budget was optional only a couple of years ago has already become the new normal.
The problem is we are no longer a People worthy of receiving the blessings of liberty and any proposal that doesn't include a plan for reversing that isn't a plan.
About all I can propose is for the House to get it's ass in shape and form a totally unified front amongst the Rs that 1) the House is where all taxing and spending must originate and 2) they are going to pass a zero baseline budget based upon extending ALL of the Bush taxes and freezing everything at post Fiscal Cliff levels minus an extra 1% for good measure. 3) They are going to leave town and stop all interviews after that until the Senate passes it's own budget and the Conference Committee starts work.
The Senate is so terrified of even proposing a budget they would then agree to almost anything to avoid it. Maybe. At least it is a short term plan. Still doesn't address the real problem above though.
Posted by: John Morris at November 30, 2012 12:10 PM (sCRhB)
Posted by: Naqamel at November 30, 2012 12:11 PM (UMwMT)
Posted by: MoeRon at November 30, 2012 12:11 PM (PKCB1)
One cautionary note, though: This will provoke a serious constitutional crisis and may undo the Republic. So a soft Let it Burn could turn into a genuine collapse of the Republic.
it is already gone
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at November 30, 2012 12:11 PM (R8hU8)
Posted by: Naqamel at November 30, 2012 12:12 PM (UMwMT)
Posted by: ejo at November 30, 2012 12:12 PM (GXvSO)
it is already gone
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at November 30, 2012 04:11 PM (R8hU
You can't say I didn't warn you.
Posted by: Ben Franklin at November 30, 2012 12:13 PM (EKr9U)
Posted by: Minuteman at November 30, 2012 12:13 PM (qs9G3)
Posted by: KG at November 30, 2012 12:15 PM (p7BzH)
Posted by: MoeRon at November 30, 2012 12:15 PM (PKCB1)
Will we actually get serious reform? Yes.
Increased taxes for everyone? Yes.
Recession? Definitely.
But that all assumes the President will not overstep his Constitutional limits- which I am betting he will.
That latter possibility will have very serious ramifications. Not just at the SCOTUS (since this Congress will not impeach him). But when things get bad enough, you may get riots and worse.
Posted by: marcus at November 30, 2012 12:16 PM (f6THN)
Posted by: MoeRon at November 30, 2012 12:16 PM (PKCB1)
That would last only so long before people started asking when real money is going to flow into their bank accounts. You can't run a gov't on IOU's forever. Sooner or later, people want to get paid. With real money, not promises.
Also, if Congress is invalidated then that would be grounds for a revolution. I'm talking total fucking uprising. The president cannot dissolve Congress under any EO or directive, short of killing them all by his own hand.
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 12:16 PM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Nicki at November 30, 2012 04:06 PM
I wish somebody had told the troops at Waco that!
Posted by: The Branch Davidians at November 30, 2012 12:16 PM (wwsoB)
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 30, 2012 12:17 PM (e0xKF)
Posted by: mr_jack at November 30, 2012 12:17 PM (TMG3G)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 12:18 PM (XkWWK)
As in Romania, the military would probably follow orders until they became sickened with the slaughter or realized their necks would be next on the line, then the worm would turn, and it's bye-bye dictator.
Posted by: Ben Franklin at November 30, 2012 12:18 PM (EKr9U)
Posted by: KG at November 30, 2012 12:18 PM (p7BzH)
Posted by: marcus at November 30, 2012 04:16 PM (f6THN)
I prefer me enemies in front of me waving their fascist flag than hiding behind my Old Glory.
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 30, 2012 12:18 PM (xAtAj)
Any enlisted and officers tasked with such enforcement would be vetted for political reliability ahead of time, and the rest confined to barracks or sent off on exercises in the desert or Alaska.
So, yes, the ones sent most certainly would.
Posted by: Winston Smith at November 30, 2012 12:18 PM (eZgIK)
Posted by: asdf at November 30, 2012 12:18 PM (LLEcx)
Posted by: Not Ready To Unsock at November 30, 2012 12:19 PM (BgIBZ)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 12:19 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Nicki at November 30, 2012 04:06 PM
Maybe American soldiers won't, but cops seem to have no moral qualms about it. Police departments are getting more paramilitary every year, and SWAT teams have been sent to bust down doors even with no known armed threats. I believe that the EPA and the Dept of Education have SWAT teams. What for, armed truants?
Posted by: The Branch Davidians at November 30, 2012 12:19 PM (wwsoB)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 12:20 PM (XkWWK)
---
ATF idiots =/= "troops"
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 30, 2012 04:17 PM (e0xKF)
ATF doesn't own tanks. Those were National Guard troops driving those M60s.
Posted by: Joe Mama at November 30, 2012 12:20 PM (EKr9U)
Posted by: Minuteman at November 30, 2012 12:20 PM (qs9G3)
Posted by: MoeRon at November 30, 2012 12:21 PM (PKCB1)
Posted by: Not Ready To Unsock at November 30, 2012 12:21 PM (BgIBZ)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 12:21 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: KG at November 30, 2012 12:22 PM (p7BzH)
The FBI reports to a lawless criminal at the moment. I would not put much faith in them as staunch defenders of the Republic anymore.
Posted by: Winston Smith at November 30, 2012 12:22 PM (eZgIK)
The other option to a dictatorship is for the producers of the country to just go on strike... shut it down, advertise a week and have 40 million people not show up for 7 days.
It would take some high powered press or entertainment people on the right in addition to polititians and having some CEOs call for it also. Can you imagine if half of the airline pilots just took a week off? Food distributors?
----------
THIS. Not the pilots, either, they are just worker bees. The CEOs and Board of Directors need to shut down every business for a week. A General Strike of producers and job creators. Let the libs who run Goldman Sachs and Costco and Hollywood stay open, but everyone else close. Every independent trucker, stay off the road. Oil and gas companies, stop shipping the oil and gas and close the gas stations.
These leftist assholes think they can just keep turning up the heat on the pot gradually and we won't jump out before we are boiled. We will have to either prove them wrong, and start jumping, or we will prove them right!
Posted by: rockmom at November 30, 2012 12:22 PM (NYnoe)
Absolutely not. The Republic is long-gone. The democracy may be undone, but it's doomed anyway. Godspeed!
Posted by: A One-Eyed Cat Peepin' in the Seafood Store at November 30, 2012 12:22 PM (eMtQ2)
Anyway, that's what The Bomb is for
Right. Which is why we are where we are right now. People want to get paid and are about to find out the cash register is empty.
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 12:22 PM (GQ8sn)
Instant riots everywhere and desertion in the military will be instantaneous.
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 30, 2012 12:22 PM (xAtAj)
Posted by: passably affable at November 30, 2012 12:23 PM (/YzPM)
Posted by: KG at November 30, 2012 12:23 PM (p7BzH)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 12:23 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: The inexplicable Dr. Julius Strangepork at November 30, 2012 12:24 PM (YmI3c)
Watch the footage again. A tank makes the first breach and then the fun starts.
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 12:24 PM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: MoeRon at November 30, 2012 12:24 PM (PKCB1)
Posted by: KG at November 30, 2012 12:24 PM (p7BzH)
There were no M60's at Waco. That is a myth. There were tracked vehicles, borrowed from engineer units, but no M60's.
Posted by: Winston Smith at November 30, 2012 12:25 PM (eZgIK)
Posted by: misty (Team Economic Collapse) at November 30, 2012 12:25 PM (v9uA1)
It would be the quickest way to purge this scourge.
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 30, 2012 12:25 PM (xAtAj)
Posted by: KG at November 30, 2012 12:25 PM (p7BzH)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 12:26 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Winston Smith at November 30, 2012 12:26 PM (eZgIK)
I remember a "tank-like" vehicle breaching the wall with a turret, then a lot of smoke, fire, and an explosion.
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 12:27 PM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Nicki at November 30, 2012 04:06 PM
Wish somebody had told us that too !!!
Posted by: The Bonus Army, 1932 at November 30, 2012 12:27 PM (wwsoB)
Posted by: Winston Smith at November 30, 2012 12:28 PM (eZgIK)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 12:29 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Nicki at November 30, 2012 04:06 PM
Four given a good talking to in Ohio!
Posted by: Neil Young at November 30, 2012 12:29 PM (wwsoB)
Think it canÂ’t happen here?
In 1765, the year the Stamp Act was enacted, no one imagined WashingtonÂ’s inauguration happening just twenty four years later.
In 1978, the year Pope John Paul II was made Pope, no one imagined the dissolution of the USSR happening just thirteen years later.
The only new thing under the sun is the history you don’t know. – Harry Truman
Posted by: Nicki at November 30, 2012 12:29 PM (Xv7f/)
Wrong, it was a ram/boom assembly.
Posted by: Winston Smith at November 30, 2012 12:29 PM (eZgIK)
That's on an M60 platform right?
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 12:29 PM (GQ8sn)
So the options are:
1) Give Obama everything he wants (or essentially everything he wants absent trivial, superficial tweaks) wherein he actually gets what he wants, or
2) Deny him essentially everything he wants (because this particular tyrant will only accept everything) wherein a crisis occurs and he declares himself pharaoh and he actually gets what he wants.
Bottom line: Lose-Lose? I don't think so. I'll take option two and LIB. He can destroy the country and it'll be him in the history books doing it. In the new Republic, the first order of business will be to burn the books of our academic "historians" and forbid the dissemination of their take on what actually happened. Then we can proceed with the prosecution of the
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at November 30, 2012 12:30 PM (eHIJJ)
One cautionary note, though: This will provoke a serious constitutional crisis and may undo the Republic. So a soft Let it Burn could turn into a genuine collapse of the Republic.
Are you trying to sell me on the soft LiB option?
Well, OK I guess we could try it. But if it doesn't collapse the Republic we'll have to do it all over proper this time.
Posted by: entropy at November 30, 2012 12:30 PM (TULs6)
Posted by: Not Ready To Unsock at November 30, 2012 12:30 PM (BgIBZ)
What do you think is in your wallet now? Obama already has the banks by the nads. So long as they take the paper from the FED and the Treasury Dept, the ATM and credit cards keep swiping, etc. yes people will happily accept the new state of things. The few that don't will be dealt with. We on the right side of the web will howl but it will avail us not.
And forget red states breaking away unless you can propose a way for em to have atom bombs on day 1 plus a way to make a very credible threat to deliver em in a post Iron Dome ABM world. MAD is the only force that might (might) stop Obama from invoking Lincoln's established precedent of murdering any who wish to flee.
Posted by: John Morris at November 30, 2012 12:31 PM (sCRhB)
Posted by: Debt limit closer than you think at November 30, 2012 12:32 PM (Jt5WE)
Trutherism has no place here.
Because you're offended by it.
People who believe in aliens, ghosts, and the Loch Ness monster are fucking stupid, but that won't stop them from being welcomed will it? Stupid people are not evil.
Unless you find them offensive, and then they're evil and must be stopped because, like Ace mentioned earlier, the whole point of politics is making everyone else obey at any cost.
Posted by: entropy at November 30, 2012 12:32 PM (TULs6)
What's more worthless? A US currency note or an IOU?
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 12:33 PM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Mjölnir, the banhammer from the gates of Hell at November 30, 2012 12:33 PM (Jls4P)
"One cautionary note, though: This will provoke a serious constitutional crisis and may undo the Republic."
Good. War#.
Posted by: rrpjr at November 30, 2012 12:33 PM (jujXx)
Posted by: Wally in Walla Walla
More Brawndo?
Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 30, 2012 03:12 PM (JEpGb)
+ Infinity
Posted by: Dick Whistle at November 30, 2012 12:35 PM (5Zux8)
Posted by: Stuff Jefferson's Zombie Said, Vol. I at November 30, 2012 12:35 PM (eHIJJ)
My bad, they were using front-line M1A1s and Bradleys, not older NG M60s.
Posted by: Joe Mama at November 30, 2012 12:35 PM (EKr9U)
Maybe they personally sympathize with the Tea Party types more, but when given the order they'll open fire, blame adrenaline, and sleep like a baby afterwards
Posted by: kbdabear at November 30, 2012 12:36 PM (wwsoB)
Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at November 30, 2012 12:36 PM (epxV4)
Lanterns were tipped over, fuel spilled, CS grenades ignited it. It was unfortunate, and poorly planned, not nefarious.
The big fuckup was having the water turned off and no fire/rescue on hand. That and the all wood structure let the fire progress rather quickly.
That part of the FBI/ATF reports reads like its pretty honest.
The part that doesn't read honest is the description of bullet wounds and fatal shots to the Federal agents who died in the previous initial assault. THAT part of the reports screams "coverup"
Posted by: @PurpAv at November 30, 2012 12:37 PM (eZgIK)
Hate to say it, but that's already happening. This might just be the shock treatment people need to wake up, and if not, I'll go down fighting. I won't live in a country that looks like the land I loved, but is really its evil twin.
Obama has that flexibility he wanted, and see the result. He hasn't even reached the second term and his arrogance has already ballooned.
Walk away, GOP. Let it burn.
Posted by: Lee at November 30, 2012 12:37 PM (RtwOA)
Posted by: John Morris at November 30, 2012 04:31 PM
A few well placed missiles on some centers of the elite, and they'll have had enough of war
Posted by: kbdabear at November 30, 2012 12:37 PM (wwsoB)
Stating that the economy is slowly coming back as reason to not walk away and let it burn is hoping against hope itself. Our economy is designed in such a way that if/when it does go into recession or depression, it will bounce back ALL ON ITS OWN. Thats why throwing money at the wall (ala stimulus) and seeing what sticks does not work. Its why supplying failing companies with bailouts to keep afloat does not work. The economy is self sustaining so long as people are able to afford to buy products. Once you begin meddling with it, trying to force it to come back by throwing money at it, it will wither on the vine. Roosevelt extended the depression by trying to force things to get better rather than letting the market work the way it is meant to. Zeroman is doing the same thing. He is choking it by dumping money into a bottomless pit.
WALK. AWAY.
LET. IT. BURN.
Posted by: Lord Vader at November 30, 2012 12:38 PM (5OBSH)
Then you'll have no problem producing video of M1's and Bradley's near the structure. PResent your proof.
Posted by: @PurpAv at November 30, 2012 12:39 PM (eZgIK)
Posted by: kbdabear at November 30, 2012 12:40 PM (wwsoB)
"fixing this country is a whole lot easier than wrecking it and rebuilding. why do you even think our new constitution would be as good as the one we have?"
At some point, the house rot gets so bad you can't fix it anymore. You have to tear it down to the foundation and start over. The country you and I want, yankeefilth, is not possible given our current construction of 51%+ rotten, termite-ridden structure.
Do you think our Constitution is currently being used in any genuine, meaningful, originalist way? Hell, a quick reading followed by an honest appraisal of our reality will tell you it's not. It seems to exist for no other reason than to be tortured by lawyers with the same skillful tongues as $1500/hr whores into saying that which it clearly does not in ot\rder to lend "legitimacy" to that which is otherwise intolerable.
Perhaps we'll borrow it and put it back in effect.
Posted by: Jaws at November 30, 2012 12:40 PM (4I3Uo)
Posted by: Joe Mama at November 30, 2012 12:40 PM (EKr9U)
FedEx - the world on time.
What can Brown do for you?
Posted by: @PurpAv at November 30, 2012 12:41 PM (eZgIK)
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 30, 2012 12:42 PM (e0xKF)
Posted by: Alte Schule at November 30, 2012 12:43 PM (MLJu8)
Don't forget: The man now engaged with Congress to work out a grand deal is the same one who could not pull over to his side a single Republican vote for his stimulus legislation, who had to ram through ObamaCare with procedural tricks, and whose inept handling of last year's debt-ceiling talks ultimately led his fellow Democrat, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, to isolate him from the final negotiations. This is not a history to inspire confidence.
Mr. Obama's tendency to campaign rather than lead, to speechify rather than negotiate, has already defined this lame-duck session. The president has wasted weeks during which a framework for a deal has been in place.
Within two days of the election, Mr. Boehner had offered an enormous compromise, committing the GOP to provide new tax revenue, through limits on deductions for the wealthy. Mr. Obama campaigned on making "the rich" pay more—and that is exactly what Mr. Boehner agreed to give him.
All that was left for the president to do was accept this peace offering, pair it with necessary spending cuts, and take credit for averting a crisis. Mr. Obama has instead spent the past weeks campaigning for tax-rate hikes. He wants the revenue, but collected only the way he chooses. And on the basis of that ideological insistence alone, the nation is much closer to a crisis.
Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at November 30, 2012 12:43 PM (e8kgV)
As for his minions... you brought this shit on yourselves... be prepared for what is coming down the pipeline... no more free shit... and civil unrest that will make the summer of '68 look like a county fair...
Posted by: Mjölnir, the banhammer from the gates of Hell at November 30, 2012 12:43 PM (Jls4P)
Ace, the reason you're scared is because you think there's still hope. But Ace, the only hope you have is to realize that the republic is already dead ..
Posted by: Lt Ronald Spiers at November 30, 2012 12:45 PM (wwsoB)
Posted by: Not Ready To Unsock at November 30, 2012 12:45 PM (BgIBZ)
That NG units were there is NOT IN DISPUTE. Nobody contests this. NOBODY.
Claims that tanks "participated" in the assault is in dispute, because it is BOGUS. Simply NOT TRUE. Unsupported by all video documenting the assault.
I'm sorry that you have been lied to and believed it.
Posted by: @PurpAv at November 30, 2012 12:45 PM (eZgIK)
Posted by: Tonic Dog at November 30, 2012 03:29 PM (X/+QT)
----
Heh..... you assume there's going to be future elections....
Posted by: fixerupper at November 30, 2012 12:45 PM (nELVU)
How about a 50,000,000 man march on Washington, DC?
Seriously, if Obama grabbed power like that, I bet we could get over 50% of the 48% of the voters that did not vote for him to converge on the capitol.
Posted by: Marmo at November 30, 2012 12:46 PM (QW+AD)
Posted by: PJ at November 30, 2012 12:47 PM (ZWaLo)
Alas, inventory says JACK SHIT about disposition and usage.
Thanks for playing, Try again.
Posted by: @PurpAv at November 30, 2012 12:47 PM (eZgIK)
Posted by: Not Ready To Unsock at November 30, 2012 12:48 PM (BgIBZ)
Posted by: Not Ready To Unsock at November 30, 2012 12:49 PM (BgIBZ)
I'm sorry that you have been lied to and believed it.
Posted by: @PurpAv at November 30, 2012 04:45 PM (eZgIK)
http://www.justice.gov/publications/waco/wacotwelve.html
Read it and weep. Oh, and do your own research in the future, smartass.
Excerpt:
On Monday Morning, the Attorney General and several senior Justice Department representatives gathered with senior FBI officials in the FBI SIOC, where they monitored events throughout the morning via CNN footage and a live audio feed directly from the FBI forward command post in Waco. The weather conditions in Waco that morning did not work in the FBI's favor. Strong, gusty winds prevailed, which probably helped to disperse the tear gas and fan the flames once the fire started. The tear gas action began at 5:55 a.m., when HRT Commander Rogers ordered the two CEVs deployed to the compound, with CEV-1 proceeding to the front-left corner of the building, and CEV-2 proceeding to the right side of the building. At 5:56 a.m., lead negotiator Byron Sage telephoned the compound and asked to speak with Schneider. It took approximately three minutes for Schneider to come to the phone. At 5:57 a.m., Rogers moved his command tank to a position approximately 240 yards directly in front of the compound, providing him with an unobstructed view of the entire compound.
Posted by: Joe Mama at November 30, 2012 12:51 PM (EKr9U)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 12:51 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: navybrat at November 30, 2012 12:53 PM (Pjt1t)
Posted by: Not Ready To Unsock at November 30, 2012 12:53 PM (BgIBZ)
Posted by: Rob McNeece at November 30, 2012 12:53 PM (hNXHo)
Posted by: Not Ready To Unsock at November 30, 2012 12:55 PM (BgIBZ)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 12:56 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Joe Mama at November 30, 2012 12:57 PM (EKr9U)
Posted by: epobirs at November 30, 2012 12:57 PM (kcfmt)
And it will.
Posted by: navybrat at November 30, 2012 12:58 PM (Pjt1t)
Posted by: Olaf at November 30, 2012 12:59 PM (t1NLo)
Posted by: Insecto the Fucked at November 30, 2012 01:00 PM (Z5BDI)
Posted by: navybrat at November 30, 2012 01:00 PM (Pjt1t)
Posted by: Jordan at November 30, 2012 01:00 PM (1dwWo)
Let us focus the mind on our impending hanging and what we can do about it.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 04:56 PM (XkWWK)
Just a history lesson for those that are fooling themselves.
Posted by: Joe Mama at November 30, 2012 01:00 PM (EKr9U)
Posted by: imp
I don't know about the press. As the economy keeps declining and unions keep demanding I think that there will be a tipping point that even the complicent media will not be able to ignore. They will lose jobs, income as well as an ever decreasing profit margin. I believe that self interest will take over at that point.
Posted by: Cheri at November 30, 2012 01:01 PM (G+Wff)
Posted by: navybrat at November 30, 2012 05:00 PM (Pjt1t)
Wesley Clark.
Paging Wesley Clark
Posted by: Joe Mama at November 30, 2012 01:02 PM (EKr9U)
All of a theme.
I'm all burned out now, so to speak.
~;-/
Posted by: Joe Mama at November 30, 2012 01:05 PM (EKr9U)
Posted by: President For Life Obama at November 30, 2012 01:06 PM (+GpbP)
Posted by: Insecto the Fucked at November 30, 2012 01:07 PM (Z5BDI)
position approximately 240 yards directly in front of the
compound
Wow, using a "tank" 240 yards away as a rolling fucking walkie talkie. That's BIG TIME "participation" there. I'm fucking impressed...NOT.
All you've done is further confirm what I've known for 20 years. No real tanks got near that building or participated in that assault.
Dood. There was SO MUCH that was wrong about Waco and fucked up, that was REAL, really REAL, its not productive or instructive put forth sophist bullshit.
You want something to really dig into? Find the autopsy reports for the dead Federal agents that were redacted and covered up. Find out where the damned front door vanished to. Find out why ATF was even interested in these guys when all evidence and purchase receipts showed they had nothing illegal. Hellfire? LEGAL. Inert grenades? LEGAL.
Those questions burn a lot hotter than horseshit about tanks participating in the assault.
Posted by: @PurpAv at November 30, 2012 01:09 PM (eZgIK)
So "Santa Claus" is lecturing us today about his naughty and nice list?
Just when you think this bad actor can't get worse he does. How absolutely insulting. Chavez without the charm. /S
Posted by: Cheri at November 30, 2012 01:10 PM (G+Wff)
Posted by: Rob McNeece at November 30, 2012 04:53 PM (hNXHo)
If you don't see any difference between the Military using military equipment, on our Enemies.... vs... Law Enforcment using Military equipment against our own citizens?
Wow... just... wow...
Posted by: Spartacus at November 30, 2012 01:12 PM (lZBBB)
Posted by: navybrat at November 30, 2012 01:19 PM (Pjt1t)
Posted by: @PurpAv at November 30, 2012 01:19 PM (eZgIK)
Posted by: The inexplicable Dr. Julius Strangepork at November 30, 2012 04:24 PM (YmI3c)
Word
Posted by: Beast Rabban, House Harkonnen at November 30, 2012 01:20 PM (TIIx5)
Posted by: @PurpAv at November 30, 2012 01:21 PM (eZgIK)
Posted by: entropy at November 30, 2012 01:36 PM (YUttk)
Posted by: trump at November 30, 2012 01:37 PM (M7Awp)
Posted by: trump at November 30, 2012 01:38 PM (M7Awp)
FAILPosted by: trump at November 30, 2012 01:38 PM (M7Awp)
Posted by: The Ghost of Flannery O'Connor at November 30, 2012 01:38 PM (WE5bx)
Posted by: Boy George at November 30, 2012 01:42 PM (2mZZv)
Posted by: peter at November 30, 2012 01:49 PM (RNlWU)
--
Multitude, could you write up an essay, intended for the masses (so as brief and easy to understand as possible) that summarizes our current situation and the historical context? Perhaps we could get as much exposure as possible on right-leaning blogs and try to get it to go viral. Most people do not understand what is going on (to state the obvious).
Posted by: Mayday at November 30, 2012 01:53 PM (F3s39)
Posted by: Jeff D at November 30, 2012 01:54 PM (S2+vK)
Posted by: someguy at November 30, 2012 01:58 PM (sEXZ/)
Posted by: Jordan at November 30, 2012 02:10 PM (1dwWo)
Posted by: TexasJew at November 30, 2012 02:16 PM (lD8ju)
maybe OT, but:
there is a reason they talk about mil, ex-mil, etc.being terortis.
To 286:
No, they won't, and besides - the military, by something like 65-35%, is ON OUR SIDE ON THIS.
Posted by: Naqamel at November 30, 2012 04:08 PM (UMwMT)
What is OUR side that they're on?? R v. O?? LIB?? R v. D?? What??
Think it through. Not sayng you're wrong, but there has to be a morning after.
Posted by: ddan at November 30, 2012 02:19 PM (q1RJB)
Posted by: TexasJew at November 30, 2012 02:21 PM (lD8ju)
Posted by: Boomer Redneque knows Mohammad was a goat-fucking kiddie-raper at November 30, 2012 02:27 PM (eQnzo)
--
My daydream is that a large group of influential advertisers (ie, captialists) decide to stop advertising in the MSM.
We can't trust the gov't, our elected representatives or the SCOTUS, and we aren't too sure about law enforcement or the military. I'd like to see some civilian entities get creative.
Posted by: Mayday at November 30, 2012 02:39 PM (F3s39)
Posted by: waelse1 at November 30, 2012 02:42 PM (OjnXq)
Posted by: JohnJ at November 30, 2012 02:54 PM (Tt6ky)
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at November 30, 2012 03:07 PM (71mXH)
Posted by: rickl at November 30, 2012 03:10 PM (sdi6R)
Posted by: rickl at November 30, 2012 03:12 PM (sdi6R)
Bullshit. They're all Petraeus. They'll do whatever they're told.
Posted by: WTF Do I Know at November 30, 2012 03:26 PM (HtUdo)
Its going to collapse anyway due to Rat irresponsibility and corruption so walk and make them own it.
They may thing socialism will result they forget who has the firepower.
Posted by: ConcealedKerry or SubMitt at November 30, 2012 03:51 PM (N6+l9)
Now, you have a clue, Ace. You've laid out a couple of very possible, if not probable, scenarios.
You nailed it, Ace.
The only difference is, had things been reversed, we'd be looking at the same basic scenario with a Republican in The White House...even with a Republican controlled House and Senate.
The music has stopped and Obama and the Dems have grabbed the last chair...
Long term outcome, say, ten to twenty years down the road: Possibly, America will become...a loose confederation of republican states, instead of a United States under our current, failed, federal democracy. Think: Articles of Confederation or a similar analogue. iow, Big Government goes completely away, except for what we now think of as almost powerless figureheads.
Short term: Prepare to live in your worst political and economic nightmare...
Now, for the 'I told ya so!'
Ten years ago, you guys pilloried me for saying that things would get this bad. That's when you were being nice about it. Hell, even five years ago... No, I'm not a prophet or some sort of spiritualist prognosticator. I did one helluva lot of research on this and closely related topics...which included more reading than most of you morons do in a lifetime. iow, you had to be blind or ignorant not to see this coming from a long, long ways away. (Hell, in 2001/02, nobody believed me when I told them a housing crash was coming...)
Now, back to your football games, Valu-Rite and hobo & whore hunting trips
Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at November 30, 2012 04:00 PM (WwR1j)
Posted by: Crispian at November 30, 2012 04:17 PM (uxW8g)
Posted by: Leigh at November 30, 2012 04:40 PM (AxuhS)
Posted by: Leigh at November 30, 2012 04:41 PM (AxuhS)
Posted by: ig at November 30, 2012 05:27 PM (5Cwv4)
Posted by: entropy at November 30, 2012 05:31 PM (YUttk)
Posted by: edj[/i] at November 30, 2012 05:35 PM (+QKfp)
Anarachy? ahh.... no..... I agree with you in regards to throwing the Repubs away. Some states will return to
Posted by: ig at November 30, 2012 05:41 PM (5Cwv4)
Posted by: Baldy at November 30, 2012 06:22 PM (opS9C)
Posted by: DFCtomm at November 30, 2012 06:25 PM (hkh8c)
Posted by: entropy at November 30, 2012 06:58 PM (YUttk)
"The Walk Away/Let It Burn option is growing on people. One cautionary note, though: This will provoke a serious constitutional crisis and may undo the Republic. So a soft Let it Burn could turn into a genuine collapse of the Republic."
Gutless attitude. So if you cave in to the Dems the Republic is lost, but if you don't cave in it's also lost? Sounds to me like it's already lost!
Posted by: Andrew at November 30, 2012 08:12 PM (zxFKo)
Posted by: Ryan at November 30, 2012 10:11 PM (NC6RD)
Posted by: Rex the Wonder God at November 30, 2012 11:33 PM (21TJo)
Y`all should see the movie Dark Horse. Perfect analogy for the republican movement.
Posted by: Fnord at December 01, 2012 12:29 AM (hoJnS)
Posted by: Sexypig at December 01, 2012 02:04 AM (6m8gs)
Posted by: TRO at December 01, 2012 05:42 AM (ad/F8)
Posted by: Esau's Message at December 01, 2012 11:42 AM (6c62F)
Posted by: Esau's Message at December 01, 2012 11:44 AM (6c62F)
Posted by: jasonj at December 01, 2012 11:54 AM (Cq0ow)
Hope ya'll got all your shit in one sock, because the next 10-15yrs are gonna be one for the record books.
Posted by: shank at December 01, 2012 02:14 PM (tYyor)
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Posted by: NJ Libertarian (@BadMesmer) at November 30, 2012 11:01 AM (GE0Kl)