1

Q. If the 2012 U.S. federal budget were all in 100-dollar bills, how much would the money weigh?

 

A. 82,000,000 pounds. No, seriously. Eighty-two MILLION pounds. Of hundred-dollar bills.

 

The federal government spends this in one year.

2 McConnell allowed this to come to the floor because he thought it was a winner politically and he knows the House will kill it.


This is a very dangerous strategy. It has backfired several times in the past.

As for the WaPo, I have just about quit linking to them and The Hill because they are so screwed up.

3 This illuminates a basic issue: The Democrats are better than the Republicans at this kind of manipulative, sneaky legislative sleight-of-hand .

4 Why do you hate puppies so?

5

Why didn't our side at least try to create some means by which small business income was able to be exempted from this, making it a tax on purely "take home" type personal income? 

 

 

Is no one clever enough to devise such a system?

6 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable tyrant.

7 80 billion dollars? That is like Mike Moore's daily lunch bill.

8

Fuck Harry Reid.

9 Fuck Harry Reid.

Posted by: garrett at July 26, 2012 10:04 AM (EszeI)

==============

No.thank.you.

10 And yet they ask for more. Always more.

11 The federal government spends this in one year.

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at July 26, 2012 10:00 AM (SCcgT)

 

------------------------

 

 

Meh.  It's a big scary number.  Has been for a long time.  But it's a huge economy, and even with all that public spending we still have a lot of labor and natural resources just laying around unused.  

 

We need to cut spending to weaken the government, not because the budget is expressed in a big number.

12 Yes that is unfair to puppies, puppies only ruin carpets liberals ruin nations.

13 Can we stop talking about the "Bush Tax  Cuts" and focus on the "Obama tax Hikes" now?

14 Arguing economics with a liberal is like talking physics with a puppy (though that comparison might be unfair to puppies).

It is unfair.  Unlike Harry Reid, a puppy knows better than to relieve himself where he eats.

15 Why didn't our side at least try to create some means by which small business income was able to beexempted from this, making it a tax on purely "take home" type personal income?

Making the tax code more complex is really not on the table.

Besides, Republicans see this as a "poison pill."  They've got the Democrats on the record as supporting a tax hike in a recession.  Obviously they're banking on that winning them some votes in November.

16 We are pleased to announce that the chocolate rations will be increased to 20 grams. You're welcome.

17 It's all bullshit

18 really vet them because the media will

Are you still hand-wringing over the fact that the business owner in the "These Hands" commercial *gasp* took government loans and *double-gasp* has less than $100K in "government contracts?"

19 It's inside-the-beltway baseball. It will neither benefit nor impact most voters, it will die in the House, and few people understand it or care about it. BambiCare, on the other hand, is raising people's healthcare spending and is directly traceable to a single piece of legislation, which legislation is Obama's Signal Achievement (TM).

20 Who should I fire - Peggy, Mike or Perry?

21 Who should I fire - Peggy, Mike or Perry?

Barack Obama.

22 I will do just about anyone but even I draw the line at Dingy Harry.

23 Kabuki as usual.  All bills shall originate in the lower chamber.  So this is going nowhere. 
McConnell threw in his line and Reid and company bit hard.  Those dems in battleground states are gonna wish they didn't go along with this class warfare tactic.

24 Call me crazy, but I thought all revenue bills were supposed to originate in the House. Then again, Harry Reid called that an "old procedural trick." I guess the Constitution really doesn't matter these days.

25 ot, but did anyone see this? Executive Order -- Assignment of National Security and Emergency Preparedness Communications Functions President Obama Assumes Control of All Domestic Communications "In an order entitled the "Assignment of National Security and Emergency Preparedness Communications Functions,” the president quietly produced an edict that places the nation’s entire communications spectrum and infrastructure — private and public — under the control of the White House." "...the executive order was issued without any sort of announcement or signing ceremony typical of President Obama’s self-congratulatory style..." "Americans who use cellphones, the Internet, or other radio-based means of communication should understand that as a result of this latest executive order, President Obama has placed all these things under his sole supervision. The president’s order places under his personal purview all radio and digital communications, commanding that all of these signals can be intercepted by the president, the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, or other intelligence agencies as directed by the president."

26 24 Jinx!

27 Puppies are okay with Newtonian physics, but as soon as you venture into Relativity and QM, they go all "That's bullshit".

28
@25- source please?

29

The only way a liberal can be made to understand market realities is to make it affect them directly.

If they run a basket weaving shop, counter with a "If we taxed basket profits  at 50 percent that would make 20 billion a year!"

They aren't so in favor of it then.

30 Not to mention I don't think anybody's looking at the federal government and saying 'Yeah, I think they've earned more money.  They deserve it.'

$80B isn't even a hiccup to the Obama Deficit, which it wouldn't even be used to reduce.  People know this would just be squandered like they're squandering the rest of the money they take.

31 ItÂ’s a rare day that McConnell is outmaneuvered in the Senate.

Now that's Teh Funneh right there!

32 OT but just saw RNC ad about Obama and jobs that finishes with "Its OK to make a change". WTF kind of weak sauce is that? Why don't they just finish with "Its OK we won't think you are racist" or "Think it over" or "You really aren't a bad person". Who the hell is this going to pursuade. AARRRGGGG

33 26 great minds

34 OT but just saw RNC ad about Obama and jobs that finishes with "Its OK to make a change". WTF kind of weak sauce is that? Why don't they just finish with "Its OK we won't think you are racist" or "Think it over" or "You really aren't a bad person". Who the hell is this going to pursuade. AARRRGGGG

Posted by: Thunderb at July 26, 2012 10:16 AM (Dnbau)

It's not meant for people like us.  It's meant to persuade those that need an 'out' to change their vote.  I actually think it's a good RNC ad.

35 You can't fire Peggy.  Apparently she's a transsexual.

36

My wife and I are both small business owners. we know what we need to make to support our family!

 

Raise our taxes and we raise our prices, so the middle class pay more to have my wife watch their kids and my retail customers pay more for the stuff they buy from me.

We don't net less........ the middle class pays us more,

 

THE MIDDLE CLASS PAYS OUR TAXES,,,,,, BONEHEAD!

37 Raising taxes is oxygen to Lefties. I like how the Marxism behind all of this is finally bubbling to the surface. Pull off the fake human skin to reveal the reptilian enemy underneath.

38 WTF kind of weak sauce is that? Why don't they just finish with "Its OK we won't think you are racist" or "Think it over" or "You really aren't a bad person". Who the hell is this going to pursuade.

Some, is the thinking.  There is a theory, as yet untested, that there are a fair number of "independents," who are only staying with Obama because they don't want to be called racist.

Not sure how true it is, but that's the going theory.

39 Pull off the fake human skin to reveal the reptilian enemy underneath.

Can we then kill it with fire?

40 OT: This is the best Olympic story you will never see on NBC. I mean, I'm tearing up at my desk here.

http://is.gd/DZfCQI

He grew up in West Lafayette, attended Purdue and dominated his sports -- the standing long jump, standing high jump and standing triple jump -- in a way no athlete since has dominated his sports. And he did it after spending his first 15 or 16 years wracked with polio, first unable to walk at all and then unable to walk without the aid of crutches.

Modern NFL players can't standing long jump as far as Ray Ewry could jump in 1908.

Someone needs to write a children's book about this guy.

41

OT but just saw RNC ad about Obama and jobs that
finishes with "Its OK to make a change". WTF kind of weak sauce is
that? Why don't they just finish with "Its OK we won't think you are
racist" or "Think it over" or "You really aren't a bad person". Who
the hell is this going to pursuade. AARRRGGGG

Posted by: Thunderb at July 26, 2012 10:16 AM (Dnbau)

 

My college kid son, just starting to pay attention to politics loves that ad, he thinks its the best he has seen.

 

many of his friends voted for Mr Cool Change, this gives them permission to ditch Cool Change, tried but couldn't , and vote New Guy,  competent and experienced!

me I'd rather see Muslim enabler, commie wannabee, big earred redistributor of my cash to his non workers, unfortuanetly that is a little harsh for those not paying attention!

42 You know why Jim Webb voted against this tax hike?  Because a $250,000 cutoff captures a hell of a lot of couples in Virginia who both work for...the government.  There are individuals working in the bank regulatory agencies now who make more than $250k.   When the median home price in Arlington is something like $750,000 and a real family home with a yard can cost well over a million bucks, then a family income of $250k is a MINIMUM required to live there.   Virginia is going to get hammered if these tax rates expire. 

43

The Dems don't actually want to raise taxes, they simply want to use it as a campaign issue.  If they truly believed it would benefit the economy, they would have done it in 2009. They know it would have a negative effect, but they think it polls so well.  They simply want it to be an issue.

 

44

Cool. So many gov't sector bankruptcies now or expected in the future, the press is tracking them:

http://tinyurl.com/bugle8t

We need an app for that!

45 36 - So taxes are a cost of business passed on to consumers.  No taxes are like unicorn farts that magically appear and have no effect on pricing.  - Stupid Libs

However if your prices go up enough, consumers will stop bring their kids to you and stay home themselves or find a relative.  AND consumers will search out alternatives to your products and you and your business are screwed.  That is the real horror.

46 many of his friends voted for Mr Cool Change, this gives them permission to ditch Cool Change

Doesn't say anything good about the electorate when they need "permission" from teh teevee to not vote a certain way.  *srednop*

But hey, if it works, more of it.

47 Mittens needs to include in some speeches the dishonesty here. The GOP amendment exempting small business was stripped by the Dems. Most peoples' eyes glaze over when someone starts talking about legislative maneuvers but if Mitt stresses just that the dems are lying about what they tried it would play: "The Democrats passed what they call a tax cut today. They raised taxes on individuals and businesses earning $250,000/yr or more and didn't raise taxes on those earning less. Only in Washington is only raising some taxes called a tax cut."

48 To be fair, most liberals have never taken a course in basic economics, as it likely conflicted with their course in "The origins of Punk Rock." 

49 There are individuals working in the bank regulatory agencies now who make more than $250k.

I get the point of your comment, but I can't really feel empathy for those guys and their four weeks of vacation like I can the guy who's at his restaurant seven days a week, 364 days a year to make sure the government gets their cut off the top.

50 Who the hell is this going to pursuade. AARRRGGGG Posted by: Thunderb at July 26, 2012 10:16 AM

Saw a new Bark Obama ad in MA this morning: a Sweet Young Thing who is "afraid" of Romney because he won't let her have an abortion, or birth control pills or cancer screenings, etc.

I guess "it's okay to make a change" was considered more, you know, all friendly and stuff than "FOAD, you traitorous bastige!" which is what I'd rather see the Repubs saying.

We have to be nice, since the Choomer-in-Chief has set such a positive tone. Ummm, yeah....

This is why I am seriously concerned about how the election will play out. On one side you have The Smartest Preznit Evah! who not only can't do any wrong but also doesn't look like those Fat White Guys on paper money; on the other, you have an Eeeeeeevil Mormon who hates wimmins.

It'd be damn funny if so many would-be voters weren't lapping it up like Free Shit from the gubmint.

51
Why didn't our side at least try to create some means by which small business income was able to beexempted from this, making it a tax on purely "take home" type personal income?


Is no one clever enough to devise such a system?

 

Posted by: Reactionary at July 26, 2012 10:02 AM (xUM1Q)

 

You can't, that is the Republicans' entire point.  An owner of a S corporation small business declares all his business income as ordinary income.  There isn't any way to separate it unless you completely rewrite Subchapter S.  Small business owners use the S corp. because they avoid having to pay lawyers and accountants and file a ton of paperwork to become a regular corporation, which isn't necessary for most small businesses with only a few employees. 

 

There are not very many W-2 wage earners whose AGI is over $250,000 a year.  Of course, those people could "afford" to pay a little more tax.  But the small business owner can't, unless she fires someone.

52

A vote in the US Senate is the very definition of secrecy!

 

Tell me again why I should give the opinions of the MSM any weight whatsoever.

53 They just declared some kind of weather emergency in NY/NYC? Is that a signal for me to get drunk?

54

I'm going to talk to my wife about a sign for our entryway,

"Obama wants to raise my taxes,

Obama raises my taxes your daycare will cost more,

Vote for Obama so you can pay me more!"

55 55th!

56 27 Puppies are okay with Newtonian physics, but as soon as you venture into Relativity and QM, they go all "That's bullshit".

Ah, the Puppy Exclusion Principle.

57 It's not meant for people like us. It's meant to persuade those that need an 'out' to change their vote. I actually think it's a good RNC ad.



I agree.  It's appealing to those who don't want to admit they made a mistake by putting it on Obama and saying see he's a SCOAMF and it's okay if you want to realize that now.

58  on the other, you have an Eeeeeeevil Mormon who hates wimmins.

It'd be damn funny if so many would-be voters weren't lapping it up like Free Shit from the gubmint.

Posted by: MrScribbler at July 26, 2012 10:30 AM (wZI4b)

 

Now that right there is so wrong,

 

mormons loves them some womens so much they has lots o wives!

 

barky whose dad had lots o womens too says so

59 @49 I was not trying to evoke sympathy for highly paid bureaucrats, I was just trying to explain why a senator from Virginia would not vote to raise taxes on a large number of his own constituents.  The real mystery here is why Mark Warner voted for it.  I guess he still has some national ambitions and got the screws put to him. 

60

Restoring tax cuts on income over $250k would raise $850 bil over 10 yrs. I think voters like that.

 

Okay, maybe I'm just really tired, but shouldn't Liberal Twitter User have said "REMOVING tax cuts on income over $250K...," not "Restoring?"   Am I reading this wrong?

61

 

If you haven't seen this....it's a hoot.

It's a spoof on that video where the guy talks to his 12-yr-old self.

Heh.

From Republican Party Animals. 

 

"Obama Supporter Interviews Her 2008 Self"

 

http:/ /www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WbX5EwSp_W8#!

62 Internet comments will be taxed at $1.00 per 100 posts. For the children.

63 More divisive bullshit... Obama creating African-American education office

64  The real mystery here is why Mark Warner voted for it. I guess he still has some national ambitions and got the screws put to him.

Posted by: rockmom at July 26, 2012 10:34 AM (qE3AR)

 

that severed horses head they hauled out of Roberts place, and threw in feinsteins and several other backpeddlers beds is getting pretty rank, but hey gets more attention that way.

65 61
--
Either that or Laffer-ism is now in in a BIG way!

66 The liberal tweet response that Drew references is telling.  In her opinion voters like the fact that government will actually get more money from the US taxpayer.  I'm not sure this has ever been true.  Voters want spending to be cut.  Obama campaigned on spending cuts.  Unfortunately, in Washington vernacular a spending cut isn't actually a cut.  Kind of like how keeping tax rates current somehow equates to a tax cut.  In her mind, voters are going to be very happy that the government gets more money - not from saving it in wasteful areas - but by taking more of it from taxpayers.  Liberals just don't get that fundamental point. 

67 @49 and @59
We've explored this here before.  I am one of those >$250k Washington families.  I spent years in grad school and post doc, as did my wife.  I make no apologies for what I earn, in fact, by all objective measures, I am underpaid.  Highly paid folks are usually (but not always) highly skilled and hard workers.  The slackers tend to be at the lower levels. 

Dagny would back me up on this.  Why do you hate Dagny?

68

This is fun. Here is an extract from a letter to the editor in the Austin-American Statesman:

 

When will we stop hearing the foolish assertion that success in private enterprise is a meaningful qualification for the presidency? By definition, government is distinctly not-for-profit.

Whether you were successful in investment banking, pizza or even manufacturing weapons, this ability is meaningless in running the executive branch.

If understanding the economy is of paramount importance in electing a president, then we should elect a Noble Prize-winning economist such as Paul Krugman. If turning a profit is so important, then we should elect a drug dealer.

 

I ran it through the BlaBlaMeter, http://www.blablameter.com/index.php 

 

and got this result on the Bullshit Index which goes from 0 to 1.

 

.51

 

Something's fishy. Obviously you want to sell something, or you're trying to impress somebody. Are you sure that you have a real message, and if so: who would understand it?

69 The senate has not produced a budget in four years.  Four $#%^& years.  The feds are spending 50% more than they take in in taxes.  No tax argument is going to solve this problem.  What we need is a list of the federal departments that are going to be closed down in their entirety.

70 Obama creating African-American education office Barry says he's creating the office. He says many things that bear no relationship to reality. Soon he will say that he will forgive Student Loan debt in a second term, not that he actually will, but he will say it. He's banking on the yute turnout, so to speak.

71 "Obama wants to raise my taxes,
Obama raises my taxes your daycare will cost more,
Vote for Obama so you can pay me more!"

"Until you get laid off and don't need daycare anymore!"

72 It really really really sucks that the Olympics are on MSNBC and other NBCs. Did I say it sucks. If the Israelis are attacked again, MSNBC will probably say we have to look at the underlying cause and of course blame it on those evil right wing Jews

73

"...the Democratic plan to extend the Bush tax cuts on all income up to $250,000."

 

But but but, teh libruhl blogs keep telling me that the tax cuts were only for Boosh's rich cronies!!!!11eleventy11!

74 They just declared some kind of weather emergency in NY/NYC? Is that a signal for me to get drunk?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 26, 2012 10:31 AM (05RcU)

I am seriously considering it here. It is already > 90° here and they are calling for 99° today. Must be a good excuse to have a "movie" day since to hot for porch rocker.

75 Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 26, 2012 10:31 AM (05RcU)

Oh no! Thunder!

We have turned into a nation of pussies.

76 53 They just declared some kind of weather emergency in NY/NYC? Is that a signal for me to get drunk?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 26, 2012 10:31 AM (05RcU)

Sure, what the hell. On the other hand, the fact that it's 5:00 someplace is also a valid signal that it's okay to get drunk, so it's not like you need a storm to justify it.

77

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at July 26, 2012 10:41 AM (ZKzrr)

 

Nice addition!

78 It is already > 90° here and they are calling for 99°

Wimp.

79 If you haven't seen this....it's a hoot. It's a spoof on that video where the guy talks to his 12-yr-old self. Heh. From Republican Party Animals. "Obama Supporter Interviews Her 2008 Self" http:/ /www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=WbX5EwSp_W8#! Posted by: wheatie at July 26, 2012 10:35 AM (mtRB0) Love the ending.

80 McConnell outmaneuvered in the Senate?  Not.  All Mitch did was allow the Dems to put the electoral gun in their own mouths and pull the trigger.

As to the new RNC ad.  It is just about perfect.  This election has always been a "return to normalcy" election.  The ad says that we gave the new guy a chance but now that he couldn't get it done, it is "ok" to go back to what actually works. 

Competent, boring, established "normal" politicians.  Which is why all the conservatives pining for a "rock-star" or ethnic "game-changer" VP pick are sure to be disappointed.  It will be a boring white guy with a long moderately-conservative track record.  Because that is what reinforces the campaign's overarching narrative from the very beginning.

Competency.  Normalcy.  Boring.  Happy people with good jobs in nice houses in the suburbs.  All that "American Dream" stuff that apolitical middle-class people who voted for Obama, "took a chance on the new guy" voters, want and feel is being taken from them and their children.

This election is the "Subdivisions" election.  The swing voters took a chance with the exotic in the city.  Now they want quiet nights on lighted streets and Romney is going to give it to them. 

The RNC is giving them permission to be normal and boring again. 

81 @53 Any thought, article, picture or news clip of Øbama and/or his administration is a signal to drink.

82 I agree with that letter from the Austin paper.  Government is completely  different from business.  Being a successful business man does not mean you will be a successful president.  In fact, I don't really care what your profession was.  I care about ideology.  Obama isn't a failure because he wasn't a succcess in business.  He is a failure because his ideology does not lead to success.  Now, we can argue that his ideology has been shaped/warped because he has no experience in business, but there are plenty of successful businessmen who share his ideology and therefore are equally as bad.  Paul Ryan has spen almost all his life in government, but his ideology is completely different from Obama's.  IMO, he would be a far more successful president.  Experience is simply a great campaign selling point.  But ideology matters.  Hoover may have been the most succesful businessman to become president ever,  but he was a lousy president.

83 "The Democratic Senate cut over a 4 trillion dollars from the budget today. Sen Reid led his caucus in not demanding a thermonuclear war. The actual expected saving could be even higher. The GOP, easily outmaneuvered by the Dems, refused comment." ---NYT

84 My wife's Aunt goes to a Navy Dentist who is a friend of mine. And he tells her how much fun I am to be around and how happy I always seem when I'm on Duty. And my wife wants to know why I am not that way at home? Maybe it's because nobody is busting my balls?

85 What kind of emergency can they have in NYC. It is raining there and temps are in the low 70's.

86 Soon he will say that he will forgive Student Loan debt in a second term, not that he actually will, but he will say it. He's banking on the yute turnout, so to speak. Posted by: toby928© at July 26, 2012 10:41 AM

My take on this is that Bark Obama's African-American Education Office will demand that student loan debt be forgiven for AA students, and supplemented by larger "loans" to make them equal to the kids of the Eeeeevil Rich. The new loans won't even have repayment schedules or interest rates attached.

87 Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 26, 2012 10:41 AM (05RcU)

Costas is supposedly going to have his own moment of silence during the opening ceremonies. But that is the only example of intestinal fortitude coming out of NBC.

88 Not wimp, just drunkard

89 Heh...today MIGHT be the first day in 20 that we only hit 99 instead of being 100+.

90

72 It really really really sucks that the Olympics are on MSNBC and other NBCs.

 

Yeah it sucks.

I'm not excited enough about the Olympics to break my boycott of NBC.

But then, the Olympics itself sucks these days.

It is no longer 'amateur' athletes....not really, most all of them are full time and getting paid/supported in some way.

91 What kind of emergency can they have in NYC. It is raining there and temps are in the low 70's.

The #OWS crowd might accidentally get a little cleaner.  Consequently, the infectious goo on them might get into the water supply.

92 Costas is supposedly going to have his own moment of silence during the opening ceremonies. But that is the only example of intestinal fortitude coming out of NBC. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 26, 2012 10:47 AM (nEUpB) yeah i read that, but then again, that will only be seen in the USA anyway

93 What kind of emergency can they have in NYC. It is raining there and temps are in the low 70's. Posted by: Vic at July 26, 2012 10:46 AM (YdQQY) Derecho panic, is all.

94 It is no longer 'amateur' athletes....not really, most all of them are full time and getting paid/supported in some way.

The thing is, it never really was "amateur" athletes.  Certainly not on the part of the Russians and Chi-Coms, but even the US found ways around those rules.

Mostly, though, my problem is with the focus on competitive skate-boarding, and the "power-walk," and crap like that.

95 Derecho panic, is all. Posted by: eman at July 26, 2012 10:49 AM (bbW7j) Isn't that what you put down your pipes when they are backed up?

96

@67 Wow, you are getting me completely wrong here.  I'm not trying to play class warfare or suggest that anyone deserves a tax increase.  All I was trying to do was point out that at least one Democrat understands how damaging this tax increase would be for his state. 

 

The bank regulators have to pay high salaries to get talented people to live in the DC area, because it is so expensive. 

97 yeah i read that, but then again, that will only be seen in the USA anyway Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 26, 2012 10:48 AM

Scheduled for 3:17 AM, East Coast time? Any other time, and one of the fuckwit babblers from the "Toady" Show will talk right over it.

98 Completely on topic... I just saw a puppy paw shaped bumpersticker that said: Who rescued who? (sic)

99

79....Love the ending.

 

Posted by: eman at July 26, 2012 10:45 AM (bbW7j)

 

Me too!

Sunny is always good. I like her. 

 

 

100

@80

 

***Applause***

101 Mostly, though, my problem is with the focus on competitive skate-boarding, and the "power-walk," and crap like that.

Ummmmm...do the name "Synchronized Swimming" ring a familiar bell?

102 Scheduled for 3:17 AM, East Coast time? Any other time, and one of the fuckwit babblers from the "Toady" Show will talk right over it. Posted by: MrScribbler at July 26, 2012 10:51 AM (wZI4b) So the Opening Ceremonies are at 3:00AM EST Friday?

103

Ack. My hash has changed...again. I just now noticed that.

Bummer. I liked the last one.

104 $850 billion over 10 years? I wonder if we can collect it all this year and maybe drop this years deficit down to just $400 billion. Good lord liberals are idiots.

105 the "power-walk," and crap like that.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart

Say,  that got us thinking... the "power-crap" would be a great competition!

Thanks!

106

Nobody, but nobody knows (1) how many million you need to make a billion and (2) how many billion you need to reach a trillion.

When I was a kid, Senator Dirksen (I think) said something like "a million here and a million there and pretty soon you're talking about some real money".

 

The "discussion" has gone from "millions" to "trillions" in the blink of an eye and 95% of the eligible voters don't have a clue about  the size of the difference.

I guess my real point is that we are  totally fucked.

107 Me too! Sunny is always good. I like her. Posted by: wheatie at July 26, 2012 10:52 AM (mtRB0) It should get its own post. Hint. Hint. Cobloggers.

108 Drew - Your ad, is.. ummmm.. stupid.

How do you not get that $250,000 in income is $250,000 in that guy's pocket.. take home pay.. profit..  If he was sinking every cent into his business, he would have a modest income.. maybe $50k or even a $100k.

109 OT but it looks like another Hollywood type has come out of the closet.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/chuck-woolery-attacks-michael-moore-349148

110 @96
Nah, just having a little fun and reiterating a point that is all too often ignored here (but not by you), but is important.  The argument isn't whether you should pay enough to have things done well, it's whether they should be done in the first place.

I agree with your explanation for Webb.  He is many things, but predictable isn't one of them. 

111 fuckwit babblers from the "Toady" Show will talk right over it.
Posted by: MrScribbler

I forgot how much I hate that.  I may have to skip it now.  Thanks.

112 Wanna bet if Israel gets booed at the Opening Ceremonies?

113 How do you not get that $250,000 in income is $250,000 in that guy's pocket.. take home pay.. profit.. If he was sinking every cent into his business, he would have a modest income.. maybe $50k or even a $100k. If it's a Title-S corp, it's still all his income. If he turns around and invests the "profits" in the company, it's still taxable income unless he can get a particular tax credit for the particular spending.

114 We've got a 10 degree cooldown today that says we'll only hit.....96.

We've been in triple digits a record number of days so far, and we ain't even hit August yet.

115 @110
To continue the theme, I really like Romney's formulation for deciding whether something should be done by the govt.  "Is is worth borrowing the money from they Chinese to do this?".

116

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 26, 2012 10:47 AM (nEUpB)

 

I noticed that on the 10th anniversary of 9-11 Costas pulled no punches about it having been a terrorist attack. Glad  *someone* at NBC has some integrity.

117

It should get its own post.

Hint. Hint. Cobloggers.

 Posted by: eman at July 26, 2012 10:57 AM (bbW7j)

 

I agree.

Especially since the video about the guy talking to his 12-yr-old self got it's own thread.

It would be a follow up.

118 How do you not get that $250,000 in income is $250,000 in that guy's pocket.. take home pay.. profit.. If he was sinking every cent into his business, he would have a modest income.. maybe $50k or even a $100k. Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at July 26, 2012 10:57 AM (f9c2L) Seriously? You pay taxes on gross income, not net.

119 Jerry's right.  Anyone who makes $250k a year is a millionaire in four years.  Duh!

120 I watch that SunnyTV vid and all I hear is the music.

Is it a flash problem w/ a stereo track, maybe?

121 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 26, 2012 10:48 AM (8y9MW)

I was parked on 4th Ave and 9th St.. yesterday and saw two of them walk past. They were literally streaked with dirt.

Disgusting.

122

Arguing economics with a liberal is like talking physics with a puppy (though that comparison might be unfair to puppies).

**

My puppy eats, shits, sleeps and does Sodoku puzzles in his spare time.

***

No wait...eh, thats my Mother in law.

 

123 A puppy would at least listen to you.  He might only hear, "snausages, snausages, snausages," but at least he wouldn't argue.

124 If it's a Title-S corp, it's still all his income. If he turns around and invests the "profits" in the company, it's still taxable income unless he can get a particular tax credit for the particular spending. Posted by: toby928
.
and

Seriously?

You pay taxes on gross income, not net. Posted by: eman
...........
You people are such tax geniuses.

No.  That's not the way it works.  You put money into the business.. most everything you invest such as inventory, salaries, etc.. and a portion of capital investments.. all of that is called... ta da! Expenses!  and comes off way before you declare your profit.. which is what gets reported to Uncle Sam.  idiots.

125 This election is the "Subdivisions" election. The swing voters took a chance with the exotic in the city. Now they want quiet nights on lighted streets and Romney is going to give it to them. I see what you did there....

126 I watch that SunnyTV vid and all I hear is the music.

Is it a flash problem w/ a stereo track, maybe?

Posted by: nickless at July 26, 2012 11:03 AM (MMC8r)

Yeah, I had the same problem.  Music is too loud. 

And my damn computer didn't even stop playing the music when I closed the tab.  I had to shut FF down to get it to stop.

127 Barackin Hood wants to raise taxes on high earners because capitalists are evil and must be punished, that's why!

128 Not only that, but all this loose talk about drinking is making me thirsty.

129 My hash has changed...again. I just now noticed that.

Happens when a DSL or cable box gets power cycled.  They obtain a new IP "lease".  The only way to prevent it is pay big cash for a fixed IP.

130 Ground squirrels stand in solidarity with puppies, seething with proxied outrage at the comparison to liberals. Seething I tell you!

131

Heh.  I'm sure this was discussed elsewhere at the HQ already, but     since this thread seems to be moving slow I figured    it's not too early to go OT.

 

Just saw this     headline over at WZ and thought it was great:

 

NBC's Brian Williams to Romney:     Will you pick an    "incredibly boring white guy" for Vice President?

 

Romney to Williams:  "You told me you were     not available."

 

LOVE.  IT.    SO.    MUCH.

 

Link to WZ, which has the NBC News video: http://tiny.cc/1161hw

132 Wanna bet if Israel gets booed at the Opening Ceremonies? Posted by: Nevergiveup

They should walk into the opening ceremonies with their flag at half staff to commemorate the athletes murdered in Munich.
But that would probably get them expelled from the games,  which would be sick,  but expected from the Olympic committee.

133

@126, 120

 

It played okay for me...music wasn't loud.

Sorry you guys had a problem.

134 And my damn computer didn't even stop playing the music when I closed the tab. I had to shut FF down to get it to stop.

Posted by: Tami at July 26, 2012 11:07 AM (X6akg)

 

I've had this problem quite a bit with Firefox and YouTube recently.   It seems to only be FireFox that does it, too.

135 McConnell allowed this to come to the floor because he thought it was a winner politically and he knows the House will kill it.


This is a very dangerous strategy. It has backfired several times in the past.

---

He's as smart as he is good looking.

136 You pay taxes on gross income, not net. Posted by: eman at July 26, 2012 11:02 AM (bbW7j) -------------------- Net refers to money after expenses and taxes. So, no. Expenses paid during the year are deducted before your tax burden is figured. If you're left with $250,000 after expenses, before taxes that's your profit. Now, most business owners probably will invest some of that in their business during the next year, and in any event in most of the country that's not rich, but it's not really $50K or $100K. I remember the year that my husband's business actually turned $10K after expenses, before taxes...very very different animal than when it turned $200K after expenses, and we were taxed way differently.

137 The current 14.0.1 FF release has a number of egregious bugs I've encountered.

138 *sigh*

Oh, Jerry.  You were actually showing some improvement for a while.  Oh well.  Can't teach a dipfuck leftist new tricks, I guess.

139 $80B is around 8 days of government spending.

140

129 My hash has changed...again. I just now noticed that.

 

Happens when a DSL or cable box gets power cycled.

 

Thanks. Yeah, my DSL service has been intermittent at times, for months now.

I think the hungry little moles have chewed on the underground lines.

141 "Remember, if tax hikes like this were so popular, the Democrats could have voted for them anytime they had control of Congress and the White House."

Drew, the other explanation is that Dems don't like to raise taxes on their wealthy clients when they're in power.

142 I've had this problem quite a bit with Firefox and YouTube recently. It seems to only be FireFox that does it, too.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Reporter at July 26, 2012 11:12 AM (4df7R)

I've had major problems with this laptop ever since FF forced their new version on me.  I've had to restore to a point before that and it's still iffy.

143 No. That's not the way it works. You put money into the business.. most everything you invest such as inventory, salaries, etc.. and a portion of capital investments.. all of that is called... ta da! Expenses! and comes off way before you declare your profit.. which is what gets reported to Uncle Sam. idiots. Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at July 26, 2012 11:07 AM (f9c2L) So, his income on his tax form is what? Zero?

144 $10B/day divided by ~360M == $27/day for everyone with a pulse living in the USA.

This is a completely unsustainable level of spending.

145 You idiots!  Don't you realize that the government always needs more money?  So bend over and pony up already.

146 Re memory problems with FF or IE: on my older computer, I've found that just minimizing the app for a few seconds releases some of the memory it's sucking up. Don't have have to close it, just minimize.

147 137 The current 14.0.1 FF release has a number of egregious bugs I've encountered.

Posted by: @PurpAv at July 26, 2012 11:15 AM (lKTO0)

Drive-by observation:
I've noticed it's the lag time in plugin updates more than core misbehavior by FireFox.
It's almost like Micro$oft engineers are working on things.

148 I dlownloaded the latest Opera browser which is pretty cool.  It lacks one thing I liked about FF though, the ability to highlight a URL and use it to open a new tab...as consolation prize, it has a zoom slider that FF lacks.

149 No. That's not the way it works. You put money into the business.. most everything you invest such as inventory, salaries, etc.. and a portion of capital investments.. all of that is called... ta da! Expenses! and comes off way before you declare your profit.. which is what gets reported to Uncle Sam. idiots. I guess I'm missing your point. Weren't you quibbling with "This is Mike and Peggy, if President Barack Obama and the Democrats get their way, the money I use to pay them will go to Washington instead and I'll have to let them go. President Obama, please don't force me to fire Mike and Perry." If my company makes 250k, after expenses, then my "profit" is 250k. If my tax rates goes up, but I still want to make 250k, some expense is going to be cut. I'm assuming that Mike can do both his work and Perry's if he has to. Or is paying Perry a civic duty I'm expected to undertake at the expense of my profit? At some point, I'm firing both of them, shutting down the company, and going to work for someone else.

150 Drew, McConnell and the Republicans were outmaneuvered on this years ago when Obama agreed to extend all the Bush cuts. They understood that class warfare plays well in a weak economy, and simply knew they could have it both ways: Keep taxes low to help the recovery, and be able to attack the wealthy as a safe political move in an election year. Republicans had no choice but to vote and keep on voting for keeping taxes low for all taxpayers (the proper thing to do in my view). Republicans now have no choice but to keep making their arguments. Clearly Obama sees it as a winning move. It keeps the electorate distracted and Romney on the defensive.

151 A tremendous victory for the dems - why that unemployment rate should skyrocket and investment in the private sector will trickle to nothing..... I would say that is victory by any definition if you are a Marxist. Why to go socialists - you just signed the death certificate of the "democratic" party..... I can't say we enjoyed having you around!

152 So, according to Sargent, maintaining tax rates at their current levels = tax cut.

Oh Lord, the stupid, it burns.

---

It's perfectly consistent.  According to Democrats, spending more on something is a cut if it's not as much as they want to spend.

153

"ItÂ’s a rare day that McConnell is outmaneuvered in the Senate."

He's 100% correct. It is a rare day. After all, Thursday only comes along once a week.

 

Out with them all. They are all screwing us - it's just a matter of degree. 

154 148
---
Just to be consistent with most 'budget cuts' which often are merely reductions in previously planned increases.(Well, back when we had actual budgets and such.)

155 Did I say anywhere I was FOR the tax hikes?  No.  I'm not.  We give Washington way too much already.

But all of this stupidity about how taxes and income from businesses really works makes y'all look like fools.

Read Jenny's response above... and maybe do a google search and read up how businesses get taxed.

156 FF is rife with egregious memory leaks and the developers have known this for years, opting to pile on more eye candy bling than fix core issues.  Its just recently they started talking about addressing the memory leaks in earnest...which have been around forever...

157 Your profit is what you have left after all expenses are paid, including taxes.

158 Who the hell taught the Donks accounting and math?

---

Ultimately, Karl Marx.

159

 You put money into the business.. most everything you invest such as inventory, salaries, etc.. and a portion of capital investments.. all of that is called... ta da! Expenses! and comes off way before you declare your profit.. which is what gets reported to Uncle Sam. idiots.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at July 26, 2012 11:07 AM (f9c2L)

 

They just write it off, Jerry!

160 The profits of the business are not necessarily the same as the profits of the business owner.

161 Hey--check out Abraham Miller's BRILLIANT article on AT about Obama and affirmative action guilt. Must read.

162 I'm not for tax hikes.  I just think The Rich need to pay more, that's all.  Totally different.

163

 

I'd like to know where the "$250K" benchmark came from....

Who came up with that?

Why not $350...or $450.......or $650...?

 

If they really don't want to kick small businesses in the teeth....they should bump it up to at least $1 million.

All businesses would have to add the tax increases to their prices...in some way.

But the smaller ones would be harder hit.

The smaller businesses...would be less able to compete with the bigger ones, then.....the bigger ones who buy their wholesale goods in larger  quantities.

164 Ummmmm...do the name "Synchronized Swimming" ring a familiar bell?

That's among the worst offenders, yes.
So is Gymnastics, frankly.

165 Your profit is what you have left after all expenses are paid...

That's not your profit hoss, that belongs to me.

166 Oh Lord, the stupid, it burns. It's not stupid at all. It's a straight up lie. They know that all the MSM will lead with the lie and every talking head will start an interview with, "So why did your party oppose the Democratic tax cut?"

167 The purpose of raising taxes on the evil rich is not to reduce the deficit.  The purpose is to increase the hatred.  Obama has launched a two prong election strategy:  1)  Hate the rich and 2) hate the honky because he is not part of our tribe.  In the twentieth century, the communists ran with a hatred the rich philosophy and hundreds of millions died.  Also in the twentieth century, the Nazis ran with a hate people not of our tribe philosophy and millions died.  Obama is hitting them both as hard as he cn hit them.  

168 I'd like to know where the "$250K" benchmark came from....
Who came up with that?
Why not $350...or $450.......or $650...?

It was just a number they made up.  "$250K" sounds rich, so they picked it.  You're right: they could have picked any number they wanted.  I'm sure that one focus-grouped better.

169 And it must be said: fuck John McCain, again. The 10 year sunset provision that changed a normal tax rate setting law to a temporary "tax cut" is his brain-child.

170 150 No. That's not the way it works. You put money into the business.. most everything you invest such as inventory, salaries, etc.. and a portion of capital investments.. all of that is called... ta da! Expenses! and comes off way before you declare your profit.. which is what gets reported to Uncle Sam. idiots. But you have to have some "profits" to pay people. Yes it gets expensed - but you have to make it first. It a business now has to pay higher taxes then that eats into "profits". That will cause a business to contract and lay off employees. Forget about hiring. That won't happen now. The socialists are so trying to make their ideas work. They felt Reagan was wrong - when the proof shows otherwise. What will it take for Americans that keep voting for democrats to wake up? I realize those that keep voting for democrats are either - Big labor members, welfare hos, or socialists/communists. Or yes a Green Crony Capitalist -that only skims off the top and sends the rest back to DC.

171 If a guy's business makes a $250,000 profit in a year and he pockets all of that the business will probably fail.  He needs some of that $250,000 to pay for upcoming or current expenses.  He needs some money in the bank for emergencies such as a computer breaking down or a problem in his supply chain.  Problems will arise and if a business doesn't have resources to ride out those problems,  they will fail.  A business with a modest lease or mortgage,  bills for supplies,  inventory,  insurance,  marketing/advertising and 3-4 employees will go through $250,000 pretty fast.

172 Don't think of it as paying taxes.  Think of it as investing in unicorns.

173 I just think The Rich need to pay more, that's all

If paying 70 or 80% of all collected Federal income tax isn't enough, then what is?  State a figure.  Do you want them to be paying 90% of all federal taxes collected?   95%?  What?

What makes you believe the federal govt can deploy that additional money to help the economy more than the rich can?  State a case and defend it.

174 "Hey, Rocky! Watch me pull a revenue increase out of this tax hike!" "But that trick never works..." "This time for sure--!"

175 And it must be said: fuck John McCain, again. The 10 year sunset provision that changed a normal tax rate setting law to a temporary "tax cut" is his brain-child.

---

John McCain, like venereal disease, is the gift that keeps on giving.

176 Mitch McConnell does not care about attaining the majority. He's quite content in the minority.

177

BIG point all the pundits are missing...

All Bills which Raise revenue HAVE to start in the HOUSE... this was passed by the SENATE.... this is clearly an unConstitutional Bill.

Yet I have heard no menion at ALL of this issue... even from those who swore to uphold and protect the Constitution....

178 Do you want them to be paying 90% of all federal taxes collected? 95%? What? It's a sock.

179 You'd think a guy whose s/n is Barak Obama would get the whole sockpuppet thing.

180 Anyone see Mitt burn Brian Williams when he tried to throw the "you're going to pick a boring, white guy, aren't you?" at him?
And Mitt says, "You told me you weren't available."

Seems Mitt has an eye as to who the enemy really is this cycle.

Also: Chief JEF knob-gobbler, Pissy Mathews tries to make me seriously consider quitting my job in September to work for Mitt by telling us Mitt will bring an army of John Boltons with him to Washington.

Holy shit. If that were really true and I knew it was going to happen, Mitt could all but endorse abortion and I'd still vote for him.

181 New thread up

182 Well roads are how I feed my family. That roadkill stew granny makes is hum hum good

183 And all this time I thought the Bush tax cuts were only for the wealthy.

So why did the democrats just extend them again for the poor and middle class?

184 nu thread

185 Don't  talk  about  me  as  if  I'm  not  here.  I'm  here.  Ready,  willing   and  able  to  serve  as  VP.  Really.

186 171 I'd like to know where the "$250K" benchmark came from.... Who came up with that? Why not $350...or $450.......or $650...? It was just a number they made up. "$250K" sounds rich, so they picked it. You're right: they could have picked any number they wanted. I'm sure that one focus-grouped better. Back in the mid 80's - I had a business that grossed One Million per year. I think my salary that year was 33K - Between the overhead, employees, taxes and all the bullshit I finally bailed. I cannot imagine what a small business owner is thinking now.

187 I guess I'm missing your point. Weren't you quibbling with "This is Mike and Peggy, if President Barack Obama and the Democrats get their way, the money I use to pay them will go to Washington instead and I'll have to let them go. President Obama, please don't force me to fire Mike and Perry."

If my company makes 250k, after expenses, then my "profit" is 250k. If my tax rates goes up, but I still want to make 250k, some expense is going to be cut. I'm assuming that Mike can do both his work and Perry's if he has to. Or is paying Perry a civic duty I'm expected to undertake at the expense of my profit? At some point, I'm firing both of them, shutting down the company, and going to work for someone else. Posted by: toby928
............
*sigh*

Preface: I am NOT for tax hikes. Ok?

Under most proposals, all income under $250k is taxed at current rates.  One pjenny after $250k and above gets taxed at the higher rate.

If you make $249,999.99 take home as a business owner, your rates are the same as today.

The money you use to pay Peggy and Mike came from the gross business income - NOT from your salary/profit!

Example: ABC Widgets sold $1 Million dollars worth of widgets in 2011. 

Manufacturing costs for materials  - $300k
Salaries (for Mike and Peggy and others)   - $250k
Equipment      - $90k
Warehouse and plant rental   - $100k
Advertising, etc.    - $10k

Profit  -  $250k

In an S-corp or partnership or sole propietorship that "passes through" to the owner as income.  What is so hard to understand about this?

188 Ah, the Puppy Exclusion Principle.

Shroedingers puppy says " i is horseshit."

189 Clearly Obama sees it as a winning move.

Then by all means, I'm in favor of it.

190 For FF memory problems try Memory Restart extension.  Little button next to URL box, hover shows current usage, push to restart FF, windows and tabs back to where they were.

191 Most U.S. small businesses probably file using a 1040,  schedule C.  And yes, they get to deduct legitimate business expenses before paying taxes on it.


As these businesses get bigger and they elect to go to things like an LLC the tax computations get more complicated, but they still get to deduct expenses from the gross before paying taxes.

192 f a guy's business makes a $250,000 profit in a year and he pockets all of that the business will probably fail. He needs some of that $250,000 to pay for upcoming or current expenses. He needs some money in the bank for emergencies such as a computer breaking down or a problem in his supply chain. Problems will arise and if a business doesn't have resources to ride out those problems, they will fail. A business with a modest lease or mortgage, bills for supplies, inventory, insurance, marketing/advertising and 3-4 employees will go through $250,000 pretty fast.
Posted by: Dang
............
Exactly right..  What you don't explain very well, however, is that in an S-Corp or Sole-Proprietor he MUST pocket it.

Now, a sensible owner will put a good chunk of that into a savings account for just the type of issues you raise.  But, it is still his personal money.

But this is the choice of the business owner. He can avoid this with incorporation.  A corporation can retain profits from year to year.  But, of course, the profits are then taxed.  And when the owner takes a dividend, they are taxed again, albeit at a lower rate (currently)

193 SO

194 What is so hard to understand about this? I don't understand you original quibble with the DrewM fantasy ad. The company takes in money from it's activities, some is spent on materials, some on overhead, some on salaries, taxes, and some as the return on investment. If the tax rates change, the total of money used productively, or as ROE, is reduced. You seem to be suggesting that if a company owner makes less after paying all his expenses, including salaries, it's unreasonable for him to lay off a worker and so the fantasy ad is ridiculous. Not so? What was your original point then? That the owner won't be paying enough more to take that step?

195

"Democrats Passed an $850 Billion Tax Hike."

 

The ad writes itself.

196 Example: ABC Widgets sold $1 Million dollars worth of widgets in 2011.

Manufacturing costs for materials - $300k
Salaries (for Mike and Peggy and others) - $250k
Equipment - $90k
Warehouse and plant rental - $100k
Advertising, etc. - $10k

Profit - $250k

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry

Let's say you make a product with parts from Japan.  The Tsunami just wiped out your supplier.  You are not making any product for the next five months.  That's five months of no revenue but you're still paying the rent and the advertising and the electric bill etc.  $250,000 ain't squat.  You are hurt,  bad.  Shit happens.  A business needs a lot more than that $250,000 in the bank.  And no,  they don't want to try and make it on a bank's line of credit.  That's just a slower death.  Look at your numbers above and realize that $250,000 is not a lot of money when you're dealing with those kinds of expenses.  $250,000 ain't rich when you have those kinds of bills to pay.  It's something people who have never had those kinds of bills to pay seem to not understand at all.

197 Funny - my Constitution staters that all revenue/tax bills have to originate in the Hous of Representatives.  What copy does he have?

198 Not so? What was your original point then? That the owner won't be paying enough more to take that step? Posted by: toby928
........
Correct. Not so.  His tax rates didn't change!  If, as Drew depicts, he is living modestly, he is not taking profits over $250k from his business.  His tax rates are exactly the same as now.

The first dollar AFTER $250k he takes out is taxed at the higher rate.

I'm not arguing he should be taxed higher, mind you.  I'm arguing that the ad makes no sense.

199 Sorry, but this is a win for the the Democrats.   People hate taxes, but they hate their town axes much more than they hate other folks taxes.   In fact, when judging other folks taxes, people tend to give a little more weight to arguments FOR taxes than they do when considering their own taxes.

Keeping the Bush tax cuts to those making under $250,000 makes this a much less pressing issue for 98% of the population.  Given the increase in wealth disparity of the upper 2% versus the rest of the country, it is hard to argue that this is going to really cut down on investment.   The upper 2% already have their money to invest and it is unlikely that they will stop investing it simply because they are only getting a 5% real return instead of a 6% real return.   If they decide not to invest, what will they do with that money? Save it in a bank (which makes it available for investing)? or spend it (which creates jobs and wealth as well).

Now I am someone who may be approaching that $250,000 gross mark this year and I plan to avoid those taxes by massively increasing my personal contributions to my retirement....which is investing....

Please don't flame me a "communist" who supports higher taxes on the wealthy--I don't.  I think a flat tax is equitable and wise--though getting there would be extremely messy.    I am not arguing that what the Democrats are doing is "right", I am only saying that they can make an argument that it is right to the 98% of taxpayers that benefit by this.....and that will take some of the wind out of the sails of those who want to keep ALL the Bush tax cuts.

200 But this is the choice of the business owner. He can avoid this with incorporation. A corporation can retain profits from year to year. But, of course, the profits are then taxed. And when the owner takes a dividend, they are taxed again, albeit at a lower rate (currently)
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry

More wasted time and energy due to government making businesses jump through hoops instead of concentrating on running the damn business.

201 It's something people who have never had those kinds of bills to pay seem to not understand at all.

---

Say, wouldn't that include people who've never had a job in the private sector, which includes most Democrat politicians?

202

i don't know, my dog knows not to sh!t where he eats.  that puts him above most liberals.

also, for some reason liberals beleive my dog should vote.  that's what the mail i received said.

203 Sorry that should "own taxes" rather than "town axes".   I take no position on "town axes".....

204 Okay, I just skimmed comments earlier and reacted to the statement "you're taxed on gross income, not net". I don't actually agree with Chi-Town Jerry on much, here now that I've actually read it. Jerry, the owner in an S-Corp is seen to the government as "pocketing" all his profits, even though he needs to save them for the upcoming year, and is actually paying those same expenses when the tax bill is figured and comes due (in March or April of the year after). That's why small businesses get screwed here and why Drew's ad makes sense.

205 Town axes suck compared to longbows.

206 More wasted time and energy due to government making businesses jump through hoops instead of concentrating on running the damn business.
Posted by: Dang
..........
I fully agree.

207 Raise our taxes and we raise our prices, so the middle class pay more to have my wife watch their kids and my retail customers pay more for the stuff they buy from me.
We don't net less........ the middle class pays us more,

THE MIDDLE CLASS PAYS OUR TAXES,,,,,, BONEHEAD!

Posted by: ConcealedKerry or SubMitt at July 26, 2012 10:19 AM (vXqv3)

A few years back, they wanted to raise property taxes.  Since we have a large number of renters in our area, they tried selling it as "You will only have to pay more taxes if you own property."  The property owners immediately explained to their tenants that, if it passed, their rents were going up which anyone with half a brain knew all along.

208 It's something people who have never had those kinds of bills to pay seem to not understand at all.

---

Say, wouldn't that include people who've never had a job in the private sector, which includes most Democrat politicians?
Posted by: mediumheadboy

Why yes,  I believe it would.  And even some Republicans.  But not Romney.  That's why I'm liking him more and more.  He really gets me. *hugs self and sighs deeply,  takes another sip of hot cocoa*

209

Chi-town,

"Equipment - $90k"

 

Just so people know, you're talking about the amortized amount that can be expensed each year on equipment.  So this would be 1/10th of a $900,000 expenditure that you are "writing off" over 10 years.

210 Posted by: Dang
..........
I fully agree.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry

*hug*

211 Hot cocoa?  No thanks, methinks lemonade is more in order today.

212 Don't know if this point has already been made. Why does EVERYONE insist on calling our current tax rates "the Bush tax cuts"? Can we please call them the Bush tax rates? Yeah, leaving these rates in place is not a tax cut.

213 Posted by: grandmalcaesar at July 26, 2012 11:54 AM (yrohn)

Not gonna happen.  Your terminology doesn't fit The Narrative, you see.

214 66 - Pep, PostDoc?  Can I ask what you did your grad work in or are doing now.  Finishing a postdoc in the near future and thinking about things.

215 Jerry, the owner in an S-Corp is seen to the government as "pocketing" all his profits, even though he needs to save them for the upcoming year, and is actually paying those same expenses when the tax bill is figured and comes due (in March or April of the year after). That's why small businesses get screwed here and why Drew's ad makes sense. Posted by: Jenny
...........
I am not arguing that.  But, that is a business tax law issue, not an issue for tax rates discussion.  (And also a matter of how well a business manages cash flow.) 

Also a helluva lot of families make $250k plus that are not business owners.

We need comprehensive tax law reform, and the issue of small businesses needing to retain profits for new year expenses should be addressed.

216 Can we please call them the Bush tax rates? Yeah, leaving these rates in place is not a tax cut. Put in place for over a decade by Congresses held by both parties, and signed into law by two different Presidents from both parties. I just call them The Tax Rates.

217 Hot cocoa? No thanks, methinks lemonade is more in order today.
Posted by: mediumheadboy

Fine,  just don't use a straw.  It looks gay. *straightens shawl and takes another sip of cocoa with eyes closed*

218 can we please change *our* narrative? Everyone everywhere (again, apologies to anyone here who's already said this) refers to the current tax rates as "cuts". I am taking about the so-called conservative media, Fox News et al. Even the Republicans in Congress!

219 Posted by: jwest
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yeah.. or depending on the year and the type of equipment, 5 years, or 3 years or one year!  Our tax laws are so screwed up.

220 I hardly ever use a straw.

Unlike the Choomster.

221

217Don't know if this point has already been made. Why does EVERYONE insist on calling our current tax rates "the Bush tax cuts"? Can we please call them the Bush tax rates? Yeah, leaving these rates in place is not a tax cut. 

 

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Because of the 'expiration date' that was tacked onto them....that is why they weren't called the "Bush tax rates".

 

222 Put in place for over a decade by Congresses held by both parties, and signed into law by two different Presidents from both parties.
Posted by: toby928©


That is part of the genius of having an expiration date.  See what it made them do?  They have to keep supporting the "tax cuts" instead of just not raising taxes.  They've had to be active in keeping the rates lower and not just passive in allowing them to stay the same.  It's gotta kill them a little.  Every.  Fucking.  Vote.

Go ahead,  fucking dem.  Vote again for that thing you fought so hard against and lied so long about.  Your angst flavored tears are delicious.

223 No Chi Town. If I want to make 350k instead of 250k I might have kept Mike or Peggy if my tax rate did not go up. But what happens is the increase in taxes on that 100k takes away from my projected profit . To reach closer to my projected profit I have to cut expenses. See ya later Peggy.

224 "arguing economics with a liberal" Only thing that may be even worse is arguing radical Islam with a liberal. My own recent twitter battles have been with a bunch of loonies who think they can magically, with enough peace, love and flowers, talk down the jihadists who've said out loud and repeatedly they want to kill us all. Idiots.

225 I don't think the fact that the act has an expiration date prevents us from referring to the tax rates as "the tax rates." I've always thought the continuing referrence to "tax cuts" on the part of Republicans was so we could keep crediting Bush with the cuts. But I think he's gotten enough credit (not that I begrudge him any of it). The narrative is important.

226 No Chi Town. If I want to make 350k instead of 250k I might have kept Mike or Peggy if my tax rate did not go up. But what happens is the increase in taxes on that 100k takes away from my projected profit . To reach closer to my projected profit I have to cut expenses. See ya later Peggy. Posted by: 13 year old student
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That is perfectly true.  But now you are stating the problem honestly, which most people do not want to do.  It is a lot harder to feel sorry for someone who says if they don't make $350k this year, they will fire someone.  In the end, that is your decision, just as it is every business owner's decision.  Not my fucking problem in the least, and I shouldn't be made to feel like you are someone special (tax-wise) just because you have the power to fire someone if you don't get your minimum salary.

227

"Arguing economics with a liberal is like talking physics with a puppy (though that comparison might be unfair to puppies). "

 

Reminds me of my whacked-out liberal brother. When Obama attacked Libya, he was ALL upset. About the money being spent! It was $1B! Even for just the DoD, that's pocket change. They spend twice that every day, and the govt as a whole has $1000B+ deficits that they never get concerned about (when it's a Dem, anyway). It was an absurd joke, but he refused to see that. This is a guy who's supposed to be smart.

 

I concluded that it was some sort of psychological reaction. They (I'm sure he didn't think this up himself) were upset, and wanted to voice their anger, but they couldn't criticize Obama on something REAL. I expect they were upset about his bombing some random Islamic country - making it obvious all his responsibility - when they had complained bitterly about Bush supposedly doing the same. That little thing about asking Congress before you go to war wouldn't have entered into it. Anyway, it was a curious phenomenon.

228 England raised it's top rate roughly two years ago from 40% to 50%. The following January after it had taken effect (January is equivalent to our April) they received LESS money than they had in the previous year's January. Now they've cut it to 45%. If you have to raise taxes it has to be imperceptible to the taxee to see revenue increases. Rich folk have accountants so nothing is imperceptible to them. If revenues have to raised the way I would do it is add 0.5% to all rates in the 1st year, and then every year again for 3 more years to get a total of 2%. I don't advocate that, but that's a way to do it without 'own goaling' yourself, like England did. The most hilarious part is the $85 billion a year estimate which treats the rich as cows to be led to slaughter. England's experience suggests it will be closer to negative $85 billion than a positive $85 billion......and that's not counting the impact from lost economic activity as rich folks scale back their activity.

229 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.