1 First?

2 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable tyrant.

3 Alright, Ace.  I'll write a letter...  Let's see how/where this goes.

4 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

5
And, no, this thread is not a forum to debate tax structures.

6 Clyburn is my rep.  He's too stupid to find his own ass with a flashlight.

7 I'm lucky in the conservative department...

8 My Representative is Virginia Foxx. I'll drop the crusty old bird a line, she's not afraid of anybody.

9 Well,we are raising awareness of this guy.Light is the best disinfectant.

10 My rep is Jim Himes.....it would be more productive for me to write to Saturn's moon.

11 If a lot of people don't know about BK, then Congress won't be compelled to "do something" like when the MBM floods the zone with steroid using athletes

I'll write, but I have a hunch this gets me a "thank you" form letter along with an envelope for campaign $$$

Congressmen react quickly to news stories that they have to show "action" on

12 We need to target a few like minded representatives such as McCotter for action.  Suggestions anyone?

13 I have to disagree with requiring a lawyer to open a 501(c). That's a burden for the 1000's of charities that do not have any nefarious intent in order to stop a handful of malefactors.

Why not focus on the fact that this guy has already broken laws on the books? Why not write to the respective DA's and inquire as to why they have not gone after him?

14 That they urge the FBI and DoJ and IRS investigate this matter, as well as possibly-related crimes of intimidation of Free Speech, such as Patterico's and Mike Stack's SWATting.

Sorry to sound cynical, but as long as both report to Holder, this gets the same consideration that threats to Zimmerman's life got.

15

Kimberlin can because he has no law license to lose. He represents himself, as as is his right as a citizen...

 

What state does Kimberlin reside in? In California, it is possible, though dificult, to have someone engaged in vexatious litigation as a Vexatious Litigant. This forces such idiots to be represented by a lawyer when suing ... and if a lawyer values his license to practice, idiots get shut down.

 

but then, he has no right to run a 501(c).

 

Drop a note to the IRS ...

 

I think a 501(c)'s principals can be slightly burdened to have their suits signed off by a real lawyer, who can face sanctions for false or vexatious litigation against Free Speech.

 

RICO ...  lean on the Feds, since this is a RICO suit. Name everyone on the suit ... start with Brett Kimberlin ... and his record ...

16 Ace I think the publicity is important in conjunction with direct action, as kbdabear suggests.

17

Also, a suggestion to all you bloggers on the front line, and to all the twitter members who are getting into this this:

Mockery.

These guys seem to be borderline demonic.  As Thomas More said (and famously quoted by CS Lewis), "The devil...that prowde spirit... cannot endure to be mocked".

This is serious business, so I know this must sound impossible.  But these guys should be met with mockery too.... it will be their undoing.  They will become unhinged.

18 * That a 501(c) "charity" must certify its principals and employees are not engaging in harassment, intimidation, or attempts to punish free speech, on pain of perjury if this is false. --- Is that true for for-profit officers? journalists? Congressmen?

19 Chris Muir put it up on Day by Day as well. http://daybydaycartoon.com/

20

Very little can be done legislatively. 

Malicious prosecution and wrongful initiation of civil proceedings are potentially available, as is intentional interference with economic relations.  Respondeat superior liability is unlikely available against the charity since he's almost certainly suing on his own behalf, not the charity's.  A charity, like any entity, does have to be  represented by counsel. 

Tort law can punish malefactors like this.  Just find a good tort lawyer.

21 There is a chance that the "charity" is acting legitimately, even if the principal is a convicted felon. I just would prefer to see some investigation into this specific charities activities before calling for wholesale changes to non-profits.

22 I just finished reading the post on Patterico. It's worse than I thought. Sadly it's probably worse than I even know now. For those still in the dark, that post is a good place to start.

23 KONY 2012 him?

24 Alright, Ace. I'll write a letter... Let's see how/where this goes.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 25, 2012 02:03 PM (8y9MW)

Who are you going to write to?

25 Letter written. I may or may not have plagiarized some of Ace's bullet point suggestions in my letter.

26 More motivation for The Horde.

http://youtu.be/_jyafQe_2Do

27 Quoting: "Why not focus on the fact that this guy has already broken laws on the books? Why not write to the respective DA's and inquire as to why they have not gone after him?"

^ ^ ^

I like these kind of ideas above, because nothing says "I really don't have a clue on how to deal with this very serious problem" than declaring, "I know, let's make a new law!" as the best solution, my main beef with lawmakers.  We need law ENFORCEMENT, not more stinkin' laws.

28 Who are you going to write to?

Joe Barton.

29 Tides Foundation connections to BK hits Canadian conservative TV. Ezra Levant discusses the Tide connection with Matthew Vadum because of Tides' enviro-Red activism in Canada.

In my sock: "Matthew Vadum joins Ezra Levant to outline the ties between the Tides Foundation and convicted terrorist Brett Kimberlin."

30 Well, I just sent a lengthy email to Allen West. I have no idea if he can do anything about this, but it occurs to me that if anyone in Congress has the gonads to take it on, it would be him.

31 STOP talking about extrajudicial resolution

32 Anyone know where I might find some tender little doggies?

33 Okay, Ace. I'll write a letter as well. Ben Nelson is retiring, Deb Fischer won the R nom against Bob Kerry. I'll write to her & Ben. I'll lift your bullet points.

34 Oh look, Kimberlin even partners with the State Dept.:


MAY 24, 2012 - JTMP has been a participant in the State DepartmentÂ’s International Visitor Leadership Program for 3 years now, where citizens from around the world involved in the arts get to come to America and visit to learn about the role of arts in the US. This year we had visitors that came from Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Jordan and Tunisia to see how Justice Through Music Project uses art to raise awareness on issues, and to bring about social change. This yearÂ’s contingent had musicians, playwrights, and people involved in art production. We gave them a presentation and showed them many of our musical art videos that deal with politics and issues, while we spoke about how we operate and produce our art videos. We then showed them how we use this art on our website and YouTube channel to raise awareness on an issue to help bring about positive social change.



http://tinyurl.com/7e8qayk

35 Blogging will change congress!

36

possibly inductive relief

injunctive relief

Your spell check has gone wonky, ace.

the federal anti-SLAPP act went nowhere, and is not likely to be revived by the Republicans in Congress

37 Thanks for the guidelines.

38 I'd also push to have the law prohibit felons from holding a position of trust as a principal or officer of a 501(c)(3).

39 Emails sent to all 3 of my congressmen/woman. They are completely worthless (Cornyn, Hutchison & Doggett) and I expect absolutely nothing from them.

But messages sent. If enough real conservatives take up the fight I imagine Cornyn at least will pile on. Maybe. If he's not too busy helping the FCC stomp all over free internet.

40 >>>Posted by: Lampshade at May 25, 2012 02:23 PM (lkdo/)

All right, since you're here, walk on over and I'll take your scalp. Be quick about it, I've got better things to do.

41 That they urge the FBI and DoJ and IRS investigate this matter, as well as possibly-related crimes of intimidation of Free Speech, such as Patterico's and Mike Stack's SWATting. **** There have been two in congress more willing to address the DOJ than any others: Darrell Issa and Trey Gowdy. Gowdy, himself, a former federal prosecutor, knows the law inside and out and appears fearless. He doesn't represent me, but he might be a great person to target.

42 Okay, my letter has been sent, and posted to my blog as an Open Letter.

43 A liberal DC man sent me some pictures of National Enquirer, Star, US etc magazines and said "Substituting sensationalism for genuine liberation is how capitalists make money off rape."

44 >>> Blogging will change congress!

Hmm interesting maybe Bob Turner would be able to elucidate on how blogging might affect congress.

45 But... er... since I seem not to be able to tweet at the mo, could someone tweet that out?

46 Vaguely on topic, I was unaware of Google Scholar http://is.gd/Y7WEEc Kind of handy.

47 http://tinyurl.com/ctoz75n

"Velvet Hammer" says that Brynaert has deleted all his tweets.

48 I just contacted Representative Vern Buchanan (R FL-13), office. And they informed me I was not the first. So this is gaining traction around here.

49 On my end are Corrine Brown, Marco Rubio, and Bill Nelson. I wouldn't expect help from any of them but I will write to them nonetheless.

50 I'd also push to have the law prohibit felons from holding a position of trust as a principal or officer of a 501(c)(3).Posted by: xbradtc

What would a new law like that, which would instantly run into Constitutional challenges, affect when the current laws are not being enforced?

Look at Patterico's case. How would new laws burdening legit 501(c)s have prevented his harassment or changed the outcome?

51

Aside from the 501(c) issues, whch are well stated, I am not sure how this is a Federal matter as a practical basis.  The First Amendment issues speak for themselves.  One of the problems is the serial abuse of state court systems.  That is a matter that must be addressed at the state level.  Well, I suppose given the current expansive reading of the RICO statute there could be said to be a potential RICO matter for the US District Courts but other than that, abuse of the state court system is a matter to be addressed at the state level.

 

All that means is that everything said above about writing/calling/emailing Congressmen applies to state representatives.  Hopefully, those reps would be more amenable to discussing these matters since these issues go hand in glove with other court reform matters, such as tort reform.  Those are

 

All of this also speaks strongly to the need for the courts to take perjury seriously.  It is not okay for a litigant seeking a protective order from a court to lie.  It's not.  The level of tolerance for perjury in this area is heartbreaking for those of us who take the concept of perjury seriously.

52 23 KONY 2012 him? Posted by: DarrenODaly at May 25, 2012 02:19 PM



We all have to get naked and go spank it in the street?

53 My congressman Lamar Smith is chair of the judicial committee. That seems kind of pertinent to this case. I'm mad at him over SOPA, but I think he's a slam-dunk to win his primary and the general election. I don't know him well personally, but I've met him over the years (he's a neighbor) and donated to him. I'd be happy to write to him. Don't know if writing congressmen will help, but it doesn't hurt.

54 Hmm interesting maybe Bob Turner would be able to elucidate on how blogging might affect congress. **** Anthony Weiner certainly can. BTW, is the Weiner angle legit with these folks, or simply an excuse to attack bloggers?

55 49 On my end are Corrine Brown, Marco Rubio, and Bill Nelson. I wouldn't expect help from any of them but I will write to them nonetheless. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 25, 2012 02:31 PM (piMMO) My Lord! How did you end up in Brown's gerrymandered district?

56 >>>A liberal DC man sent me some pictures

Yeah and a mythical conservative sent me some pictures of the inner cities and said "This is how liberals make money off of poverty and human suffering" Go back to the stables and get a higher horse, you're going to need it.

57

>>>Posted by: Lampshade at May 25, 2012 02:23 PM (lkdo/)
 

 

I'll note, again, this troll adopted this handle in our last Holocaust Thread.

 

 

58 Look at Patterico's case. How would new laws burdening legit 501(c)s have prevented his harassment or changed the outcome? **** They aren't attacking him as representatives of an organization, but as individuals.

59

University of Minnesota Duluth was ranked #1 hottest students. (Hottness Index Datemyschool.com

Anyone been there?

60 This year we had visitors that came from Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Jordan and Tunisia to see how Justice Through Music Project uses art to raise awareness on issues, and to bring about social change. There's some common thread there.... now what could it be?

61

No clue why there's a missing sentence in my comment - full sentence is Those are matters that state legislatures and state courts take quite seriously indeed.

 

 

62 Um, this reads like a Democrat's to-do list. Federalize everything. Uggh.

63

I encourage contacting United States Senator Jeff Sessions office on this.

Mr. Sessions is a former U.S. Attorney and Atty. General. And is a strong conservative.

I also encourage contacting Congressman Issa whose district is proximate to where all of this is happening concerning Patterico.

64

I'll abide by the rules of the house and apologize for the earlier outbursts made on this site. I'm close to some people he's hurt, so this Kimberlin thing is personal with me.

 

And I know this sounds mind-numbingly naive, but it never occurred to me the progressive foundations (Streisand and Heintz-Kerry et al) and other Velvet Revolution backers actually know the facts about Kimberlin are, in fact, using his background in murder, mayhem, intimidation/litigation to their advantage. It truly never entered my mind.

 

I guess Kimberlin's longterm goal is to become a second Bill Ayers, celebrated and respected in Progressive political circles. The parallels between the two are close. I'm betting he's using Ayers as his life template.

65

"Yeah and a mythical conservative sent me some pictures of the inner cities and said "This is how liberals make money off of poverty and human suffering"True.

66 Posted by: Lampshade at May 25, 2012 02:34 PM (lkdo/)

What's with the off-topic shit? Is this an uncomfortable subject?

67 My Lord! How did you end up in Brown's gerrymandered district? **** I went from Tillie Fowler's district in the mid-90s to this and have never full recovered. As for how, well, zoning my dear. Jacksonville is so screwed up that with a half mile of each other are multi-million dollar homes, section-8 housing, quaint little neighborhoods (such as my own), industrial development, and rent-by-the-hour motels. At one time her district, quite literally, would scoop up one side of a street, but not the other, or pick out individual neighborhoods, but not so much anymore, and now many of us are caught up with her.

68 That is a matter that must be addressed at the state level. I agree. I have been unable to find any Vexatious Litigator statutes in Alabama. I'll write my state reps about that.

69

Reminder: Geraghty has a BK post up about patterico

he should have a link on the sidebar.  Snap to it, cob-loggers

70

Stace - Calling your representative's office is also key.

71 I don't think an Act of Congress will fix it. Bombing people is already illegal. Right? I think it will take direct action, as the organizers call it. And tie people who can be hurt by bad publicity up in Kimberlin's actions. Carl Levin is one.

72 I think it's time for Lampshade to GTFO.

73 Will send notes out to mine tonight (Cornyn, Hutichson, Paul).  As Paul and Hutichson are retiring, I will also be sending it out to the front runners in the campaign to replace them.  Fellow Texans, please consider dropping a note to Ted Cruz as well, suggesting he take this up if/when he takes the senate seat.  Seems like this would be right up his alley.

74 Aside from the 501(c) issues, whch are well stated, I am not sure how this is a Federal matter as a practical basis. What would you suggest California do to protect its residents from legal abuses originating in Maryland, that Maryland doesnÂ’t take seriously? Not disagreeing with you here, so much as not knowing how these kinds of abuses can be curtailed without some federal impositions on cross-state lawsuits and other harassing behavior.

75 Someone above mentioned that tweets are disappearing. Is anyone screen-capping those folks?

76 My email to John Campbell:

Sir, I would like to bring to your attention the plight of Patrick Frey, an Assistant District Attorney in Los Angeles, and blogger. He has been targeted for harassment since discussing the story of Brett Kimberlin.

Mr. Frey's harrowing tale of harassment can be found at his blogpost here:
(deleted because pixy hates links)

I urge you to press for federal law enforcement to vigorously pursue an investigation into this attempt to squelch a citizen's free speech.

Mr. Kimberlin and his associates have shown a pattern of filing  frivolous and vexatious lawsuits to chill the speech of their critics. I would ask that you read into the Congressional Record Mr. Kimberlin's convictions. Such information in the Congressional Record greatly assists any targeted citizens in expediting the dismissal of frivolous litigation.

Further, Mr. Kimberlin, a convicted felon, serves as a principal of a 501(c)(3).

Why is it that a person with federal felony convictions can serve in a position of trust? I urge you to introduce legislation barring the the appointment of convicted felons as officers or principals to any 501(c)(3) or similar non-profit organization.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

77 The more I read the more it looks like this is a RICO case. Good luck with Eric Holder in DoJ, though.

78 Michelle Malkin aggregates the BK blogburst in my sock.

79 51- "All that means is that everything said above about writing/calling/emailing Congressmen applies to state representatives." Amen. I have a neighbor who is a prosecutor who also suggested that contacting your state's attorney-general's office wouldn't hurt. So I will go ahead and do that. At least it puts the issue on the radar. (Of course, my AG is conservative pitbull Ken Cuccinelli. I don't suppose it would be worth the effort in many states.)

80 I don't think all of this is appropriate for Federal Action, but 501(c) organizations are created by Tax law, and therefore fall under Federal Jurisdiction.

81

For those of you who haven't read Andy's posted link to Patterico's piece, read it.  Read it.  Read it.

This is beyond serious and after reading Patterico's dealings with these folks, you will full well know why Ace is being very judicious about all of this.

 

82 xbradtc, I might just copy your letter and use it, if you don't mind. The only edit I would make would be to add the words "intimidation and" before harassment.

83

XBrad - excellent letter. John Campbell is solid.

84 Michelle Malkin aggregates the BK blogburst in my sock.
Posted by: andycanuck

Phrasing!!

85 For those of you who haven't read Andy's posted link to Patterico's piece, read it. Read it. Read it. This is beyond serious and after reading Patterico's dealings with these folks, you will full well know why Ace is being very judicious about all of this. **** It all becomes crystal clear a deadly serious after reading that piece.

86

74 pound striper pulled from long island sound.

87 and deadly serious....

88 Michelle Malkin aggregates the BK blogburst in my sock.

Posted by: andycanuck at May 25, 2012 02:42 PM (FTuxU)

 

 

 

Michelle Malkin can do whatever she wants in my socks...

89 It's a federal matter in that wire communications are being used to transmit terroristic threats.

One could possibly also find a civil rights infraction also.

90 There's a blogburst in my sock and everyone's invited!

91 86
74 pound striper pulled from long island sound. Posted by: Lampshade at May 25, 2012 02:46 PM

How come I never see any skinny ones in the nudie bars I visit?

92 Left-leaning blogger joins the Blog about Brett Kimberlin day:



http://tinyurl.com/c2joaor

93 Is anyone screen-capping those folks?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 25, 2012 02:42 PM (piMMO)

What I'd seen of his recent ones today -- he was feeling sorry for himself because he had been so open and honest.  Nothing newsworthy.  The tweets are coming in at hash tag #BrettKemberlin so fast it's hard to keep up.

94 RICO ... lean on the Feds, since this is a RICO suit.Name everyone onthe suit ... start with Brett Kimberlin ... and his record ...



Jesus on a minibike. This is what KB is doing to Paterico.


read the fraking backstory.

95 What's with the off-topic shit? Is this an uncomfortable subject?
No. I like to be entertained by bloggers.

96 Feel free to steal/edit as you wish, NDH.

97

How come I never see any skinny ones in the nudie bars I visit

Depends on the day. How often do you visit?

98

I'd suggest a Federal Anti-SLAPP (Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation) law, since the jurisdictions these clowns are filing in don't seem to have much protection vs. vexatious litigants.

CA courts permit a defendant to make an immediate motion which forces the plaintiff to make a showing to the judge that his case isn't lawfare or otherwise brought merely to chill the exercise of rights in the public interest (e.g. free speech).  The motion gets heard on an expedited basis before the plaintiff can run up legal bills by papering you in discovery or motion work.

Like anything else, it gets abused here, but its original intent was to cover exactly this sort of situation.

The Federal courts would not welcome the workload one bit, of course.  This seems like it's right up their alley, though.  Federal courts have already been used to enforce a certain minimum standard of due process among the states and there's a clearly legitimate Federal and consitutional interest to be protected in preventing lawsuits which chill free speech - particularly political speech.

99

Hey Babs,

It's not like Kimberlin has a record or anything.

Your foundation should be proud.

 

100 Ok so Kimberlin is a psycho and that explains his motivations but his followers are obviously motivated by left wing ideology. Kos's response amounts to a passive acceptance of their tactics against conservative bloggers. There seems to be a very vocal and growing movement on the left to say that conservative thinking is invalid and has no place at the table of ideas. While we are fighting on the field of ideas they are planning ways to poison our wells and sow our fields with salt. I keep seeing liberal calling conservatives evil and saying the truth has a liberal bias. Meanwhile the left launches large campaigns to not just oppose conservative speech but to silence it. This isn't just about Ace, or Patterico, in the larger picture this is about a concerted effort by the left to dehumanize everyone who thinks differently and these tactics if successful lead somewhere very frightening. 

101 Ace: Has any of Kimberlin's activity taken place in New Jersey? I have a very good contact in the AG's office there that could help with some state-level prosecution.

102 On this day of very heavy topics, might it be possible to get an open thread because discussing the UK Telegraph's article about Obama's "trend setting" weed smoking seems inappropriate here.

103
What to do????

In the end..... you really cant do ANYTHING about BK.... directly.

But you CAN make those who support ( and I believe those supported him without knowing BKs past) distance themselves from him.

Im sure Streisand and all the other performers bought into the social justice thru music schtick.  Support progressive causes through their own medium. .... I get it..... nothing wrong with that.  But I bet they had no earthly idea who BK was and his role in those "charities".

We need to make sure they do.  And make them understand that "Babs" and her friends are financially supporting a convicted terrorist.  

104 "legislation barring the the appointment of convicted felons as officers or principals to any 501(c)(3) or similar non-profit organization."



I could be all wet here, but I imagine there are quite a few felon ex-cons running homeless shelters and whatnot.  Should we punish those who actually have gone straight and believe they are trying to do good things now?

105 78 Michelle Malkin aggregates the BK blogburst in my sock.

Posted by: andycanuck at May 25, 2012 02:42 PM (FTuxU)

Mine too.  Oh, wait, that's not what you meant.

106 80 - I agree that tailoring laws and penalties to address a certain case or group of cases doesn't usually make good law.  That's why I'd rather see something more generally applicable (see my #98 comment) rather than a law that targets 501's, targets free speech violations only, etc...  The more targeted you make these statutes, it seems, the more problematic they are.

107

What would you suggest California do to protect its residents from legal abuses originating in Maryland, that Maryland doesnÂ’t take seriously?

If it's across state lines, then it's supposed to be a federal matter due to the diversity of citizenship of the parties.  One of the main problems is that states are not policing their own courts.  A protection that is supposed to be built into the system is that the state court system is for matters between citizens of that state or that have all/nearly all contacts with the state.  Well, if you have a serial litigant who is crossing state lines, then that litigation should be either tossed out due to lack of jurisdiction (subject matter or personal) or that matter should be removed to the federal court system.  What appears to be happening, and this is said without having the benefit of reviewing the pleadings, is that the state courts aren't tossing suits and/or aren't awarding any type of penalty for filing a suit or requesting an order when there are no legitimate grounds for doing so. 

 

How does California protect its residents?  By saying that a Maryland resident can't show up in California and take out a restraining order.  If that happens, there should be penalties.  In reality, there's not. 

 

MANDATORY DISCLAIMER:  All statements made are general and should not be construed as legal advice.  I am not licensed in your jurisdiction.  I am not your lawyer.  All commentary is based on general knowledge and should not be interpreted as being based upon any review of documents or other matters related to the specific suits being discussed.

 

 

108 I have no idea what this post is about.  Perhaps include a link or something so those of us with jobs and lives can follow along.

109 It's a federal matter in that wire communications are being used to transmit terroristic threats. One could possibly also find a civil rights infraction also. **** This IS, afterall, a case of domestic terrorism.

110 I have no idea what this post is about. Perhaps include a link or something so those of us with jobs and lives can follow along. **** Andrew, please, when you have time, read the lengthy although worthwhile Patterico post linked in Andy's post below.

111

What I do not get is the lack of interest in prosecutors and judges to put a halt to this guy.  They could do so if they wanted but are choosing otherwise.  Not sure why. 

 

My Dad was a longtime cop and he would say a law that is not enforced is not a law.  While in no way shape or form am I excusing Kimberlin for his actions, if the laws are not going to be applied against what he is doing, no reason for him to stop.

112
This IS, afterall, a case of domestic terrorism.


-----

BRB.... picking up the cause....

113

If  factual history is any guide,  I'm willing to speculate that  a future democratic presidential candidate has just had a good meeting in convicted felon Kimberlin's living room as I speak.

114 My Dad was a longtime cop and he would say a law that is not enforced is not a law.

But a law selectively enforced is worse than "not a law."  It becomes, in that instance, a tool of tyranny.

115

We need to make sure they do. And make them understand that "Babs" and her friends are financially supporting a convicted terrorist.

****

 

Why would they care.  These are the same people who support the release of convicted cop killer Mumia (sp?)

116 I'm already helping all I can by not commenting...oh wait!

117 100- " This isn't just about Ace, or Patterico, in the larger picture this is about a concerted effort by the left to dehumanize everyone who thinks differently...." THIS.

118

MANDATORY DISCLAIMER: All statements made are general and should not be construed as legal advice. I am not licensed in your jurisdiction. I am not your lawyer. All commentary is based on general knowledge and should not be interpreted as being based upon any review of documents or other matters related to the specific suits being discussed.

 

If your stompy boots were on for this...hottest disclaimer, ever.

119 I could be all wet here, but I imagine there are quite a few felon ex-cons running homeless shelters and whatnot. Should we punish those who actually have gone straight and believe they are trying to do good things now?

Yes. They're FELONS. If they wish for a restoration of their civil rights, they should apply for a pardon.

Or not commit felonies in the first place.

Or they could work with the community to have non-felons as the principals for their organizations, and be hired by that organization to implement the day to day operations.

120 Paterico is a prosecutor in the LA violent gang unit. The LAPD wont do jack, FBI has been uninterested. If a guy like Paterico cant get resolution to the problem then what happens to us commoners?

We get driven from our homes, sued, bullied, threatened and fired from our jobs.

fuzzy legal advice is just clutter.

121 The news has also reached Down Under via my sock for those too lazy to read the thread or the blog.

122 Posted by: xbradtc at May 25, 2012 03:00 PM



I can live with that.

123 The legal system is not always fair

124 Left-leaning blogger joins the Blog about Brett Kimberlin day: **** Good. He GETS IT.

125 What has happened to Patterico is chilling; he very well could have been killed. If SWATing isn't domestic terrorism, I don't know what is.

126 I have no idea what this post is about. Perhaps include a link or something so those of us with jobs and lives can follow along.

Posted by: Andrew at May 25, 2012 02:55 PM (HS3dy)

Go back to the main page and scroll down a few posts.  You'll catch up.

127 What's alleged is Kimberlin at the center of an online group of quasi-journalists, activists, and assorted minions (like 'Anonymous' types) to whom they provide locations and identities of hated parties. There may not be actual orders given, but the implication is made clear to harass, threaten, menace, etc. on behalf of those further up the chain. It's Manson-like.

128 I've written my Congressman, HAVE ALL OF YOU? Do it. And if you're not on Twitter, GET ON TWITTER and start pushing this story. We can win this. We have to. The only alternative is committing violence in our own defense. And while I'm not opposed to that, I'd rather win it without violence.

129 OT... Hostage situation in Valparaiso, IN.

130 Posted by: xbradtc at May 25, 2012 02:42 PM (LouEe)

Yup.

Just wrote a similar one to my representative.

Everyone who cares should be writing to their representatives and senators.

This is what we can do. At a minimum!

131

Drew - you are absolutely correct.  The progressives mode is systematic in its attempt to completely dehumanize opposing thought and to label conservatives as essentially enemies of the state and a threat to the social contract.

This is what is going on in real time.

Once dehumanized, immorality becomes completely legitizmized and justified by those who started the process.  

We are moving dangerously close to such evil.

A country that can eliminate 70 million through abortion is filledwith venomous impulses and a ready made pathway to evil design.

Pray for our country folks. And let the Holy Spirit be our shield and sanctuary.

  

132 The legal system is not always fair

Posted by: Lampshade at May 25, 2012 03:03 PM (lkdo/)

Were you born a douche or did you go to school or something?

133

Ace,

 

Not to be too much of a pain in the ass here, but I sorta disagree with you that publicity doesn't help 'win' in these situations (at least in a 'big picture' sense...I'm absolutely not trying to diminish your point or the serious bullshit your dealing with right now....or the importance of your recommendations; I think they're good ones).

 

What I'm getting at is that publicity means more average people becoming aware of these tactics.  I'm probably more informed than the average bear, and I've never heard of this dude until now.  Most of my political awakening occurred due to people like Mark Steyn and Ezra Levant very publicly fighting the lunacy of Canada's 'Human Rights' commissions and their attempts to discourage free speech.  

 

It's my belief that fighters like them (and yourself) absolutely 'move the cultural needle'.  It makes more people willing to stand up when they realize they're not alone.

 

Anyway, sorry for the long comment.  Best of luck with this sir....your contibution to these fights is truly appreciated.

134 Hostage situation in Valparaiso, IN.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 25, 2012 03:06 PM (piMMO)

I saw something on Twitter about shots at an elementary school.....is this the same thing?

135

107 Alex - you run into Consitutional and baldly political problems if you start allowing states to "close the courthouse doors" to other states' citizens.

If the lawfare/harassment lawsuits are being brought in CA courts, I expect the plaintiffs would be open to attack as vexatious litigants (which apparently MD and other states don't deal with).  Once a judge rules you are a vexatious litigant here (basically that you've filed multiple BS lawsuits for frivolous or bad faith purposes) you need the Court's prior permission to file any subsequent lawsuit.

This problem is something that needs to be handled on a Federal level.  Conflicts between citizens of different states already fall under diversity jurisdiction and we're dealing with Constitutional issues here as well as conflicts of law between the states. 

 

136 O/T and otherwise submitted without comment, this screenshot was taken five minutes or so ago:

http://tinyurl.com/7hvwjgs

137 Ace just scrubbed a post.

138 I saw something on Twitter about shots at an elementary school.....is this the same thing? **** Nope. This is at a real estate office.

139

Hostage situation in Valparaiso, IN.

 

It's probably just some Tea Bagger upset about the Affordable  Healthcare Act.

140 Posted by: Lurking Canuck at May 25, 2012 03:07 PM (V4JUZ)

I don't think that Ace is saying that publicity isn't necessary; rather that it is insufficient.  Specifically, he's talking about people jumping in the comments and posting a variety of ...unhelpful... comments (earlier posts) and what we can do instead of that.

141 I saw something on Twitter about shots at an elementary school.....is this the same thing? **** Just now on FNC, an adult was shot at a school in Chapel Hill. No children injured.

142 137 Ace just scrubbed a post.


Concerning....

143 Just now on FNC, an adult was shot at a school in Chapel Hill. No children injured.

A commenter at WRAL.com says a woman was shot by a man.

144 101 Ace:

Has any of Kimberlin's activity taken place in New Jersey? I have a very good contact in the AG's office there that could help with some state-level prosecution.

Posted by: rockmom at May 25, 2012 02:53 PM (YPgCz)

**

*****

Yes, an unidentified NJ person was also the victim of a SWATting incident. For what its worth I just sent Christie and Garret the story with the talking points outlined by Ace above.   

145 Ace just scrubbed a post.


Concerning....

His house, his rules.  This cannot be stated frequently or emphatically enough.

146 "Telephone lines are a federal concern."

RINO.

Just kidding. Seriously: be careful.

147 http://tinyurl.com/7hvwjgs

-------------------------

Nice.

148

@AllenG @140

 

Fair enough, and agreed.  As my nic indicates, I mostly lurk (and have been fairly busy the last couple days), so I haven't read all the comment threads and almost certainly missed Ace's more general and larger point.

 

 

149 NDH, I just signed up "ChoomGangsta" on Twitter. When we're allowed to laugh again I hope to put it to good use.

150 "Your fellow Texan,"
Posted by Beefy Meatball


Good letter, Beefy Meatball. Is is all right if I use it? If not, let me know and I won't.

151

Ace,

In Illinois, a corporation is NOT allowed to file a pro se action in court. Other states may have similar restrictions. If push comes to shove, and a lawsuit is filed, definetley check this angle out when preparing your defense.

SQM  

152

I don't see how adding another law for Eric Holder to enforce is going to help anyone who is not a communist. The things these guys are doing are already illegal. If you could prove they had done it, you could sue them for it, too. But you can't prove they did it, and apparently the various branches of LE are simply not interested, or insufficiently interested.

The one thing I see here that could be fixed is SWAT teams showing up at people's houses with guns drawn in response to 911 calls that can't be traced. The police are being played for suckers because they are suckers. They need to sharp up.

 

153 "Yes. They're FELONS. If they wish for a restoration of their civil rights, they should apply for a pardon. Or not commit felonies in the first place." Wrong. The term "felon" is nearly meaningless these days. Once someone has served his time, that should be the end of it. The point of criminal law is not to create second-class citizens who are never free men again, and if we start championing that then we're acting as allies to the very worst elements of our political class. If you want to keep malicious drones like Brett Kimberlin from having positions of political power, focus on figuring out why this prince of a fellow isn't still in jail serving his original sentence and what can be done to prevent it from happening next time.

154 I found out there's a book published back in 1997 called Political Crime: Ideology and Criminality by F E Hagan In the abstract, it says this: "Additional chapters discuss the massacre at Tiananmen Square, Pol Pot's genocide, Operation CHAOS, the Iran-Contra conspiracy, the Brett Kimberlin case, Martin Luther King's letter from the Birmingham jail, the poison gas terrorist cult in Tokyo, the Palestinian movement, the World Trade Center bombing, hate crime, and other prominent political crimes." Does anyone live near a big library that might have this book in stock? Perhaps Hagan can reveal something we can't find on the web.

155

I'm not sure if those laws are a good idea or not (and isn't is supposed to be liberals who are all 'passing laws fixes everything'). 

I suspect 'SWATing' is already against the law, what we need to encourage is enforcement.

156 Ace is a hero and a genius in certain ways but some of the proposed legislation is a really... and I mean really... bad idea.  If you were the bad guys you would salivate over having a law in place so that you could go after rightwing non-profits with nuisance suits about how they are suppressing your rights to free speech by exposing you or educating people about you or your politics.  That is what these sorts of guys do.  They turn things upside down and use anti-harassment laws to harass people.

The problem isn't that there are not laws to cover what is being done it is that they are not being enforced and law enforcement is not interested in taking up these cases.  One more law not being enforced is just one more law that will be used for nefarious purposes later on when it is selectively enforced.  Perhaps there is an aspect of existing laws that leads to them being ineffectual and they can be fine tuned?

I feel for you Ace because as a small business guy I see this a lot.  The businesses with less money than you are judgment proof  and the ones with more money can outlast you in the legal system.  People abuse it both ways.  There are con artists who the police have no interest in pursuing because it is a civil matter to them when it is a ruinous one to you.

The same is true here only in spades.  Kimberlin probably has no assets that it would really hurt him to lose and judgements are not enforced.  Law enforcement will consider it trivial or civil.  The guys behind him like Soros have deep pockets and are untouchable.  Your only hope with them is that they want to be thought of as legitimate so bad publicity can lead them to seek other malefactors as their associates.  That is about it.

Perhaps it would be best to concentrate on what the problem really is.  There is no system for controlling vexatious litigants.  It seems to me perhaps that if someone were to lose a specified number of cases of this sort that involve aggravating factors that are hallmarks of harassment while representing themselves that they should be barred from filing further suits or at least filing them without a lawyer.  This would have to be applied on a national level but it balances the rights of the little guy to seek redress against people abusing the system repeatedly for purposes of harassment.  It would allow for someone to represent themselves until they prove they are abusing the system.

The virtue here is that the individual cases determine how much leeway someone gets in the future instead of having a one size fits all limitation on everyone's rights.  That is typically how we justify taking someone's rights away... we find them guilty of something.  Maybe you just subject their suits to heightened scrutiny by a judge before letting them commence and if they still abuse the system then they lose the right to represent themselves.

Blog comments won't move Congressmen but maybe they can help start the conversation to find the best solution so that everyone can support the same thing and speak with a louder and more unified voice as a consequence.  If left to our Congressmen then they will screw it up royally.  That is what they do.  And they are easily confused so you don't want to push them in a lot of different directions at once.  It is also easier for them to be comfortable with inaction when there is no clear direction.  It is like herding cows.  You make one path easy to follow and they naturally just go that way.

We can call for hearings and contact DA's or Congressmen but IMO should be careful about which if any legislative solutions we seek.  Newspapers in jurisdictions where DA's have failed to act might be good targets as well.

Not sure any of this helps at all... just spit-balling.

157 The point of criminal law is not to create second-class citizens who are never free men again, and if we start championing that then we're acting as allies to the very worst elements of our political class. So, what is the point, then? Is it deterrence? Is it retribution? Is it rehabilitation? This is a blind men/elephant thing. I do not think I have ever seen people debating any given point about the penal system before resolving what the aim of the penal system is. So long as we cannot find agreement on so basic a point, we cannot have a meaningful discussion. So what do you think is the point of criminal law?

158 Has anyone got this to El Rushbo yet? I am sure he would cover this on his radio show. Rush has millions of listeners and maybe Mr Frey could do an interview about this on Rush if ask. Michelle Malkin needs to be talking about this when she goes on TV, ANY TV. I'm getting ready to write letters to my Congress people.

159 Ace, I wrote this on a thread earlier: I am an attorney, and have read your blog extensively, and commented some times. I'd be glad to help in any way I could. Contact me if you need anything. I agree with your sentiment, and G. Reynolds, that we all must do our part. I don't blog. I kick ass in court (and at nerd games). I'm not using my usual handle here, this time. I will also contact my politicians, as you recommend. My area has one of the highest ranking house republicans, and I happen to know some people that know that person, and have met them, as well. I will spread this. Also, keep in mind that in most states a pre se litigant is subject to FRCP 11, or equivalent state rules, and can be sanctioned by the court, and damages can be awarded to the other party, which can then be collected against the other party.

160 The point of criminal law is not to create second-class citizens who are never free men again, and if we start championing that then we're acting as allies to the very worst elements of our political class.

I'm sympathetic to the argument that we've criminalized far too much conduct, but I think we can all agree that people convicted of going on bombing sprees match the common public definition of "felon" and that withholding quite a few civil rights from them for life is justified.

161 If Patterico -wasn't- a DDA, he could sue the police department.

He might well not -win-, but deposition would almost certainly end up with him getting some of the information he doesn't have about phone records.

That is:
Patt talking to Bryn - which is dropped.
SWAT phone call.
Patt talking to Bryn again until they hit the front door.

Getting his own records and the records of the 911 call (as best the police can figure)....

But suing the police when you have to deal with them every day, probably not the best plan. Irritating.

162

Kelly Ayotte was our NH Attorney General prior to moving up to the US Senate.  I can see her taking an interest in this malicious use of     the legal system.   I'll be sending her a letter.

 

There might not be anything that the federal government can DO, but there's one thing that a letter campaign to our federal representatives WILL do: it will make them aware.  It will take Kimberlin and his cronies out of their relative obscurity and expose them to the sunshine.  The more letters our reps receive, the more voices they hear speaking out against this kind of malicious prosecution and shameful harassment, the more likely they are to   make even a token gesture.    I would ask one of them to read      the first amendment into the Congressional record and state      that no one -- not even Kimberlin -- has the right to suppress someone else's free speech, so long as that speech is TRUTH, not libel or slander, and that even in the latter example there is already legal redress an individual can pursue; harassment, threats, and terror-mongering are NOT valid forms of redress.   

 

You can't deny your own past, no matter how much you might want    to do so.

163 I suspect that Patterico's website is under DDoS attack or something.

164 i sent a message to Roscoe Bartlett, the representative for Bethesda, MD where Brett Kimberlin resides, asking him to investigate JTMP.

165 Done, Ace.

166 >>If Patterico -wasn't- a DDA, he could sue the police department.

Nope.  Immunity.  SCOTUS has ruled that the po-po have absolutely zero obligation to do anything for you.  Ever, basically.

167 >>>I suspect that Patterico's website is under DDoS attack or something.

In a way I hope so.  Fuel to the fire, what with nice Federal telecom crimes and all that Eric Holder will blow off.

And that's the angle here.  Massive federal crimes with the state borders being crossed.  Where's DOJ on this?

168 Actually, I think Patterico just got a scandalanched.  He made a joke in the comments to the effect of "Let's find out if a $150.00 a  month plan can handle this."

169 There is a word that once had a meaning:  outlaw.

At that time, it meant literally, 'outside the law'--a person choosing to not be bound by the law, and thus not receiving its protections either.

Sometimes, I think the old ways had a point.

170 @167

Yes, he can't sue them for -inaction-.

But you -do- see suits proceed against the police for overzealousness of all types. False arrest, excessive force etc.

Patterico would not -win- any such thing. But the police -defense- would revolve around why they felt they had a credible reason for storming his house in a 'no warrant served' type situation.

This gets the one piece he actually needs: Where, exactly, did the 911 call come from as best the police can tell?

171 I read most of AW's opus.  One thing that stood out to me was the settlement agreement.  BK would, among other things, not cause a charge to me made with law enforcement.

There are already laws on the books to protect folks.  Look at your local "crimes of coercion" statutes.

172 It sounds like what is needed in the legislative arena is at least some sort of Federal anti-SLAPP law. There are issues with drafting such legislation to make it fair to all parties and to meet constitutional muster. But it is possible. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_public_participation

173 I am definitely going to notify my congressman about this. Anybody have a decent e-mail template for this sort of thing?

174 I don't approve of thought crime legislation - SWAT-ing should be illegal for what it is, but no heftier penalty if it is "intended' against free speech.  Acts should be illegal, not thoughts.

Kimberlin could be cut down to size by being designated a "vexatious litigant" for all his frivolous actions - he would then have to post bonds to pay opponents' legal fees before filing a suit, and any pleading or subpoena would need to be pre-approved by an administrative judge.

He could still call your employer if he can find them, but it would be harder to get all the info, and he couldn't use his "lawfare" tactics.

175 Pattericos appears to be down, got this when I attempted to refresh. It could be connected after his long post this morning. '' "Error establishing a database connection"

176 Since he's using these organizations to further his criminal acts, RICO. Also, in Md, the Criminal Intelligence Section handles organized crime. I would think that if lawyers like Ace are getting into the shit, and are trying to push stuff, that maybe there's a helpful ear in these units. Instead, of trying to push perjury charges, should've got judges in original criminal complaint to hold BK in comtempt.

177

Ace,

I'm an attorney, but I don't practice law anymore and when I did I was a M&A drone.  But I think the key to stopping this guy is to get him back in federal prison.  He was origionally sentenced to 50 years.  He was released on parole and it was revoked for 4 years because he refused to pay a civil judgement to one of his victims.  He was re-released on parole on 2001.  Now I'm no fancy criminal lawyer, but it my understanding that a prisoner released on parole is subject to terms of parole until the origional sentence would have expired (even if it is unsupervised parole).  I gurantee BK is still subject to terms of parole.  If he has done even a fraction of the stuff written on the various blogs reporting this story he should be sent packing.  All of these bloggers should pool their resorces to get a really good federal criminal attorney to try to get BK's parole revoked.

Just my 2 cents.

Good Luck

PS: You have balls the size of basketballs.

 

 

178 I wrote my Congressman (Dan Webster) because of this post.

179 As big of a turd as this Kimberlin character is though I don't see how this warrants the attention of Congress.  Not sure what they would even do.  Everything this guy has done is already illegal.

This though seems to support the historical narrative that we're in the midst of a debate that ultimately will not be won over through discourse alone.  It actually raises an interesting question... where is the line in the sand?  Clearly the left is willing to stoop to any low to get its way, and we have known this for a while.  So where is our line in the sand?  At what point are things bad enough to justify "alter and absolishing"?

180 I doubt my congressman will do anything about conservatives being sued, but I will write him about the SWAT part of the whole mess. That seems like something sufficiently nonpartisan that even 'ol Doggett would sign on to.

181 Damn straight, this should be brought to Congress' attention. Although, these days, unless something is bracketed by spinning red-alert lights and 78 pt font online, Congress-critters will rarely take notice. So may I suggest we write polite letters to congress, AND write polite letters to the media? If people won't take action unless they are shamed into it, then perhaps that needs to be what is done.

182 This incident is just another example of why we keep losing.  We believe we understand them because we are exposed to their propaganda from birth.  We think they are zany when they rave about us being 'evil rethuglicans.'  Stop for a moment and think about this idea:

What they say in their propaganda isn't what they think, it is what they use to manipulate a populace that would hang them if a majority of them actually realized what they truly believe.  They call us 'evil' not because it is a winning rhetorical move (it usually isn't) but it is what they believe.  Now make the leap and imagine for a moment that they are correct.  Remember that in the real world almost nobody believes they are evil, Dr. Evil is funny for exactly that reason.  No, wherever their fudged up moral compass points they manage to declare to be 'good' and then anything on the opposite side of the compass is defined as 'evil'  That would be us.  Remember, scratch a liberal and you almost always find a fascist.

We lose because we fail to allow our minds to realize the scope of the problem because it leads to very dark places.  They are evil.  Laws won't stop them.  The Constitution itself only slowed them briefly.  Go reread what pattercio posted again.  The guy doesn't want to crap in his own nest too much but read what he states but doesn't dwell upon.  He is serving in a blue city in a very blue state and the powers that be are all too happy to look the other way.  Reverse the party labels on the victim and perp and they would leap into action.  Same thing is happening on the other coast with friendly judges who don't toss this idiot out on his butt for filing friviolous lawsuits and wasting their time.  And you can bet his major donors know exactly what they are getting for their money, educating them is pointless, they KNOW; they don't care about anything but winning.

So Ace keeps asking where the sane ones on the left are who will help put this guy out of action are.  They are right there with the moderate followers of Mo, in fantasy land.  Sure, most of em wouldn't do these stunts themselves, any more than most Muslims will strap on a bomb vest.  But just like average 'moderate' Muslims are more than happy to allow them in their midst and erect statues of the martyrs, the average prog is more than happy to allow this guy to dwell in their ranks and make sure he gets enough scratch to keep up his 'good works.'

You can't appeal to their better nature because they don't have one.  You can't threaten to settle this "Untouchables" style because they know our side's moral code won't allow it.  The reddest area's law enforcement would be all over a swatter regardless who they targeted or why.  But that is the right direction to look for a solution.  Force.  It is the only thing they respect.  What we can use against them is the only thing we have, Truth; thankfully it repulses them like garlic to a vampire.  Remember that they must maintain the lie of what they are until they can make enough Americans accept them and they haven't done that yet, we are split 40-40-20 and most of them understand that.  It is our best weapon, it must be used early, often and relentlessly.

So expose em, expose the ones who support them and keep doing it until these tactics aren't cost effective.  Then expose and shame the law enforcement and judiciary who turned a blind eye.  And don't stop when they cave to public pressure and do something about this single case, their job must be forfeit.  Because if they can inflict more pain on us than we can return they will keep doing it.

This is what total war looks like.  Do we want to win as badly as they do?  Do you?

Democrat delenda est

183 E-mail to Congressman (Rob Bishop, R-UT): Check

Donation via Rally: Check

Wish I could do more, but what I want to do to a certain convicted domestic terrorist would be illegal...

184 You can type "Brett Kimberlin" into Drudge's tip box.

185 Letter written to my Congresscritter Issa.

186 Dr. Johnson got himself a cudgel.

187 So a conservative sees a problem and his answer is more governmental action, more laws, more regulation. "Hi, I'm a conservative, and I detest people looking to the government to fix all of their problems and passing more laws for their own personal interests, that is unless it is my personal interest and then we need the government to fix everything by passing multiple new laws. Do as I say, not as I do."

188 Check it: http://tinyurl.com/kimberlinterrorist1

189 I guess I am dumb - what exactly is the problem - This Kimberlin files petty lawsuits against any would dare mention his name?

190 188

Your "concern" is duly noted.

191 OK, my dumb ass skimmed Patterico's post about the 'swatting' and must admit I thought it was a misnomer for filing frivolous lawsuits.

NOT

It's a false statement to the police to bring down their heavy reaction force on an innocent.

1st suggestion would be to turn the individual SWAT responders to pursuing charges charges against the one who issued the false statement - taking that bait makes SWAT look really really bad, and SWAT should take it, uhh, what word, not personally, but professionally disruptive.

2nd suggestion, if one did not already take the bait, is that that one should never complain to the civil authorities.

192 I'm with Hedgehog. The problem isn't the System, or that felons can do non-profit work from home, or that billionaires can funnel cash through them fifty different ways, or that this harassment is not super-duper extra illegal. The problem is 3-4 people are making it impossible for you to be a anonymous part-time right-wing gadfly without disrupting your lifestyle. The solution, granting that you could or should go on being an anonymous part-time right-wing gadfly, is to get them to stop. And rather than rousing the conscience of America for vague ineffective reform (I know, I know you ARE a Republican, but face it) you need to figure how to pressure 3-4 people. For that effort, a private chat with G. Gordon Liddy would be more effective than broadcasting your fear to a few million people.

193 I just wrote Congressman Labrador with my concerns. A question for the lawyers - wouldn't "loser pays" end these kind of lawsuits?

194 "Swatting" and yelling fire in a crowded theater when there's no fire: Same thing.