1 This is very sad.  I lived near Durango, Co during a terrible fire season about 10 or 11 years ago and it is devastating to the community.

2 Very sad.

3 Tragic. Absolutely tragic. RIP.

4 Hmm, hate to go OT so soon, but the police cured a guy of mental illness when he took a random toddler hostage in a Walmart tinyurl.com/curedim

5 May God bless their souls and bring peace to their families. So the ignition point was determined to be lightning? I keep waiting to find out it was some jackass arsonist who caused it.

6 Hell on earth, their last moments. May God comfort their souls.

7 These were all young men in their twenties.  Heartbreaking. 

8 Awful story. Prayers for their families.

9
Didnt some douchbag leftists (redundant?) claim they died because of Global Warming???

10 Sad, I thought the early reports were a helicopter crash. This seems a worse way to go. Very sad.

11 Just curious, how many were female?

12 "9 Didnt some douchbag leftists (redundant?) claim they died because of Global Warming??? Posted by: fixerupper at July 01, 2013 05:31 PM (nELVU) " Probably.

13 Thank you for your service smokeeaters...

God needed a few more heroes.

Rest well.

14 Posted by: kathysaysso at July 01, 2013 05:32 PM (6H6o

All of them....

15 11 Just curious, how many were female?



The picture shown on Fox this morning was of a group of nineteen young men. 

16 12 MUMR,

"compassion"...I do hope the families are resting as easily as they can...it has to hurt.

17

Very sad.

 

Terrible loss.

My heart goes out to their families and friends.

What a horrible way to go.

 

18 crap kathy.....



all of them were MALES.

19 "15 11 Just curious, how many were female? The picture shown on Fox this morning was of a group of nineteen young men. Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 01, 2013 05:33 PM (lVPtV) " 'Discrimination.'

20 I'm terrified of two things:  burning to death or being stabbed.

God rest their souls.

21 A horrible way to die.  In this country we still have men and women who will do these very dangerous tasks.  All is not lost.

22 Can't imagine what they went through in those shelters. 4 Hmm, hate to go OT so soon, but the police cured a guy of mental illness when he took a random toddler hostage in a Walmart Good on the cop for taking the shot.

23 "16 12 MUMR, "compassion"...I do hope the families are resting as easily as they can...it has to hurt. Posted by: Esteban10077@sven10077 at July 01, 2013 05:34 PM (LRFds) " Yep.

24 Didnt some douchbag leftists (redundant?) claim they died because of Global Warming??? Posted by: fixerupper at July 01, 2013 05:31 PM (nELVU) Yes. They wasted no time. Twitchy has details.

25 "18 crap kathy..... all of them were MALES. Posted by: fixerupper at July 01, 2013 05:34 PM (nELVU) " Well, I assume that was her point.

26 I meant it sort of sarcastically.  Living in SF area, I've always noticed at the fires (the ones I've set, anyway) that the females and "small in stature" males were always back at the truck - never in the forefront.  I wouldn't have expected any women to be in an elite forest-fire fighting unit - not that I have anything against my own sex, but simply because I figure 99.9% of women don't possess the physical strength necessary to do the job. 

27 Good on the cop for taking the shot.

Posted by: Adam at July 01, 2013 05:36 PM (Aif/5)

 

-- Where was it Adam?

28 "26 I meant it sort of sarcastically. Living in SF area, I've always noticed at the fires (the ones I've set, anyway) that the females and "small in stature" males were always back at the truck - never in the forefront. I wouldn't have expected any women to be in an elite forest-fire fighting unit - not that I have anything against my own sex, but simply because I figure 99.9% of women don't possess the physical strength necessary to do the job. Posted by: kathysaysso at July 01, 2013 05:38 PM (6H6o " Well, to be fair, Charles Darwin says you're a "sexist." So there's that.

29 I winced when I saw this on the newspaper this AM.  There are no words for how sad it is.

30 Where was it Adam?

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at July 01, 2013 05:38 PM (R8hU

Oklahoma

31 I could never do this job. Let the fucking houses burn.

32 Well, to be fair, Charles Darwin says you're a "sexist." So there's that.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at July 01, 2013 05:39 PM (VS04T)

Ha!  I've been called worse than that.  Usually several times a day!

33 not that I have anything against my own sex, but simply because I figure 99.9% of women don't possess the physical strength necessary to do the job.
Posted by: kathysaysso

Exactly.  The libs dreams of having women in Special Forces units is insane.

34 "32 Well, to be fair, Charles Darwin says you're a "sexist." So there's that. Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at July 01, 2013 05:39 PM (VS04T) Ha! I've been called worse than that. Usually several times a day! Posted by: kathysaysso at July 01, 2013 05:40 PM (6H6o " Worse than a made up word which makes no sense? Inconceivable!

35 In this country we still have men and women who will do these very dangerous tasks.

I think it is a reasonable question to ask if this task is one we should do?  If we continue as we are, it is inevitable that we sacrifice the lives of young people so that others can build houses in areas that should never have them.  I assume (but don't know for sure) that these young men worked for the state, and not for private insurance companies.  There's a reason for that, just like there's a reason Harry Homeowner can't insure his million dollar house on a sea level sand bar in Hurricane Alley.

36 Death by fire is as tragic as it gets. Imagining their suffering must be terrible for their surviving family members. RIP

37 Awful way to be killed  though they died heroically in the line of duty.   Hopefully they will determine how the safety measures and equipment they had in place failed and will come up with improved  plans and equipment so this will never happen again. 

38 @LawSelfDefense #Zimmerman Trial: WOW! Serino: "In this particular case, Zimmerman could have been a victim, too."

39 Polynikes-
sorry, but I can't agree with you on this one.  It's one thing to sacrifice your life in the service of your country, IOW to protect your folks.  It's another to do it so that Sam Donaldson can pretend to be living the life of the cowboy.

This whole thing just angers me.

40

Posted by: pep at July 01, 2013 05:42 PM (6TB1Z)

 

Of course we should continue to protect fellow citizens lives and  property  including these special teams of fire fighters.   This is the same debate that comes up when we rescue stranded mountain climbers and hikers.    Its one of the responsibilities of government that is actually valid. 

41 Hopefully they will determine how the safety measures and equipment they had in place failed and will come up with improved plans and equipment so this will never happen again. Posted by: polynikes at July 01, 2013 05:43 PM (m2CN7) Not sure you can come up with a way to keep all firefighters from dying in a fire, but....

42

They likely didn't suffer. When the Monument Fire burned in my AO a few years back the leading edge of the fire burned at over 1000 degrees (some measurements approached 2K degrees).

 

 

 

The worst part is knowing there is no way out except maybe, just maybe, this little bag of foil and fiberglass. Those men have balls that clang, for certain.

43 OT - I saw the vid clip, according to the talking head, the hostage taker started counting down from 60 and at that point the negotiator, who was maybe 3-4 feet and crouched down so that the hostage taker was looking down on him, pulled his weapon got to point blank range against the hostage taker's head (the video cut before what I presume is the trigger pull) and pulled the trigger. The child was not injured, but the cop took a great risk to get within arms range to protect the kid. Very brave and very risky and the right thing to do.

44

Posted by: pep at July 01, 2013 05:46 PM (6TB1Z)

 

Its not only  the  Sam Donaldson's  that lives in these areas.  And besides , the Sam Donaldson's have just as much right to have the taxpaying protection  that inner city folks have where far more fire fighting  lives have been lost.   

45 Polynikes-
Protect the lives of our firefighters, yes.  Send them in to rescue McMansions, no.  At what point do we say to people that do stupid things, "this is on you, don't come whining to me when you get in trouble." 

BTW, I feel the same way about Alaskan crabbers.  You want to risk your life for a big payday, knock yourself out.  Just don't ask somebody else to risk their lives in an arctic hurricane to pull your butt out of the water when it all goes pear-shaped.

46 God bless those young men. Prayers for their families. I would love it if just once, the pandering progs would not use a tragedy to promote their agenda. Just once, that they would simply grieve with the families, and thank those who died heroically.

47 I also wonder if this fire is so large because of the forest service's refusal to do controlled burns/tree removal.  I was appalled when I went to the Cascades a couple of years ago and saw all the tinder lying about.  When I was a kid, the forest service actually CLEANED UP the forest to prevent massive fires. 

48 Obviously somebody needs to come up with an improved fire shelter that can be moved in and placed quickly with a minimum of equipment and manpower that can withstand at least 3000 degrees for a period of time. The shelter must prevent all the oxygen from being consumed by the surrounding fire.

49
Why aren't we pinning these senseless deaths on the Democrats??

Unlike their baseless and outlandish accusations aimed at Bush and the Republicans, we actually have a legitimate argument in this case. Even if we don't, who gives a shit.

Democrats have always blocked efforts to clear brush and trees (on dubious environmental grounds) that could absolutely prevent many wildfires and forest fires.

This is how politics is done. You snooze, you lose.
Blame them before they blame you.

50 not that I have anything against my own sex, but
simply because I figure 99.9% of women don't possess the physical
strength necessary to do the job.


Posted by: kathysaysso

my little sister led firecrews for years in Idaho, Utah, and Oregon.  Sometime all convicts.

51 my little sister led firecrews for years in Idaho, Utah, and Oregon. Sometime all convicts.

Posted by: Jean at July 01, 2013 05:51 PM (CMlD4)

Good for her.  She isn't the norm.

52

Posted by: pep at July 01, 2013 05:49 PM (6TB1Z)

 

We are going to have to respectfully agree to disagree.  

53

Those 'shelters' are ersatz body bags. 

 

 I have a few friends who are smoke jumpers and they know that they likely  aren't coming out of those if they get into them.

54 At what point do we say to people that do stupid things, "this is on you, don't come whining to me when you get in trouble." Pep, I actually heard a DC cop say those exact words when some smarmy DC Hill type walked against the light to cross the street and almost got hit. The rest of us waiting for the signal clapped for her. My only thought was, she has too much good sense and will never, ever get promoted.

55 And besides , the Sam Donaldson's have just as much right to have the taxpaying protection that inner city folks have where far more fire fighting lives have been lost.

Normalized to per capita, I'd bet that the inner city folks are less of a risk.  Even if I'm wrong, there's stupid based on economic circumstance, and then there's just willfully stupid by choice.

56 I also wonder if this fire is so large because of the forest service's refusal to do controlled burns/tree removal. I was appalled when I went to the Cascades a couple of years ago and saw all the tinder lying about. When I was a kid, the forest service actually CLEANED UP the forest to prevent massive fires. Posted by: kathysaysso at July 01, 2013 05:50 PM (6H6o My mother still talks about seeing the people cleaning the forests when they were in Germany about 15 years ago. She wanted to know why we didn't do that here and I told her about the various environmental suits to stop it. Her response? Well that's just stupid.

57 "49 Why aren't we pinning these senseless deaths on the Democrats?? Unlike their baseless and outlandish accusations aimed at Bush and the Republicans, we actually have a legitimate argument in this case. Even if we don't, who gives a shit. Democrats have always blocked efforts to clear brush and trees (on dubious environmental grounds) that could absolutely prevent many wildfires and forest fires. This is how politics is done. You snooze, you lose. Blame them before they blame you. Posted by: soothsayer at July 01, 2013 05:51 PM (FC8Yl) " Generally true, but exploiting tragedies seems like simply too much. Leftists will always win a race to the bottom.

58 I missed the Zimmerman case today. Yesterday I thought it was Monday and today I thought it was Sunday. Did the prosecution prove him innocent beyond a shadow of doubt yet?

59 Generally true, but exploiting tragedies seems like simply too much. Leftists will always win a race to the bottom. Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at July 01, 2013 05:53 PM (VS04T) Well spoken, sir.

60
We are going to have to respectfully agree to disagree.

Here?  On this site?  Perish the thought.

61 "50 not that I have anything against my own sex, but simply because I figure 99.9% of women don't possess the physical strength necessary to do the job. Posted by: kathysaysso my little sister led firecrews for years in Idaho, Utah, and Oregon. Sometime all convicts. Posted by: Jean at July 01, 2013 05:51 PM (CMlD4) " Outliers are a real thing. And they don't really (dis)prove anything.

62 Exactly. The libs dreams of having women in Special Forces units is insane.

Posted by: Cheri at July 01, 2013 05:41 PM (EAgmr)

Tom Kratman has an excellent SF book, The Amazon Legion, in which he deconstructs why women--even the biggest and the strongest can't be effective infantry.  The Kindle version is $6.83.

63

We are going to have to respectfully agree to disagree.

 

That is not the Moron Way.

64 We are going to have to respectfully agree to disagree.

Here? On this site? Perish the thought.

Posted by: pep at July 01, 2013 05:55 PM (6TB1Z)

 

My bad I forgot to add  F you. 

65 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 8s  Serino says he bluffed #GeorgeZimmerman about #TrayvonMartin's phone capturing what happened. Serino: GZ said "thank God."

66 Generally true, but exploiting tragedies seems like simply too much. Leftists will always win a race to the bottom.
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at July 01, 2013 05:53 PM (VS04T)

Well spoken, sir.

Agreed.

67 >I also wonder if this fire is so large because of the forest service's refusal to do controlled burns/tree removal. You've all heard about the pine beetle infestation in Colorado forests. In places it's so bad that every other tree is dead. And all those dead trees are still in place, like so much stacked kindling. If it goes up, it will be a conflagration of biblical proportions.

68 Wildfires in open country are fast.  Very fast, even without much wind.  It's why people in states like TX and OK dread droughts.  Because not only do droughts  bring about agricultural disasters, they  bring these kinds of wildfires.

69

The 19 - all men - were part of the elite Granite Mountain Hotshots of Prescott in the worst wildland firefighter tragedy in the U.S. since 25 died in 1933's Griffith Park Fire in Los Angeles.

 

Cities, counties etc. supply firefighters  to areas  not in their jurisdiction all the time. It's common  practice.

70 Andrew Branca, LOSD ‏@LawSelfDefense 14s  #Zimmerman Trial: MOM: "You lied, right, told Zim you found camera footage of that night, what did Zim say?" Serino: "He said, Thank God."

71

49
Why aren't we pinning these senseless deaths on the Democrats??

 

Liberal policies get people killed.

 

We often say...."The stupid, it burns".

Well, in this case, it did.

 

Not that the poor firefighters are stupid, no, not at all.

 

The stupid liberal policies of not clearing away the brush is the stupid that burns...and gets people killed.

 

 

72 "59 Generally true, but exploiting tragedies seems like simply too much. Leftists will always win a race to the bottom. Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at July 01, 2013 05:53 PM (VS04T) Well spoken, sir. Posted by: moki at July 01, 2013 05:55 PM (EvHC " Thank you. :-)

73 I also wonder if the lefty/greenies think global warming caused the lightning strike that started the Yarnell fire

74 58 I missed the Zimmerman case today. Yesterday I thought it was Monday and today I thought it was Sunday. Did the prosecution prove him innocent beyond a shadow of doubt yet? Posted by: UWP at July 01, 2013 05:54 PM (r98SZ) If his defense team can put together even a semi competent closing argument that emphasizes reasonable doubt there is no way he can justifiably be convicted. Then again we are talking about Amerika 2013 so who the hell knows.

75

I spent a couple of summers doing "reserve" wildfire cleanup / firefighting in NC back in the 80's. Great money, BTW... (that's about 11ty rungs down the ladder from this team, BTW).

Those "shake n bake" shelters are refuge of last resort, that they didn't save lives isn't surprising depending on the heat.

RIP

 

 

 

76 why women--even the biggest and the strongest can't be effective infantry. The Kindle version is $6.83.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil
-------------

That's BS...., it is only necessary that we relax the standards.

77 We are going to have to respectfully agree to disagree. Here? On this site? Perish the thought. Ok. Crossbows at 50 paces you two.

78 53 Garrett,

Wonderful invention that works perfectly if you are in laboratory conditions...

when my uncle sh=owed me the mylar bag at his Station House I commented it looked like Jiffy Pop foil...

he laughed.

79 "66 Generally true, but exploiting tragedies seems like simply too much. Leftists will always win a race to the bottom. Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at July 01, 2013 05:53 PM (VS04T) Well spoken, sir. Agreed. Posted by: pep at July 01, 2013 05:56 PM (6TB1Z) " :-)

80 Ok. Crossbows at 50 paces you two.

Longbows.

81 please donate to http://www.100club.org/web/100Club they are a group dedicated to fallen police/fire/first responders today they wrote 19 checks in the amount of $15k for the families of the fallen they are a top notch group....

82 If it goes up, it will be a conflagration of biblical proportions.

 

Posted by: Jones in CO at July 01, 2013 05:56 PM (8sCoq)

 

Yeah.... and when that fire does hit... Vail is at ground zero...

83

Wildfires make their own wind.  Very intense and very eratic winds.

That's why those beetle kill forests are so f'n dangerous, there's too much fuel available to the fires and they burn hot and long. 

In more open country, fires can fall back on themselves and go out for a lack of fuel.   Not so in a dense, dead forest.

84
Whatever. The Democrats will use this push for climate change crap and for more spending for first responders.

And if you stand in their way, you're killing more firemen.

85 And the trial goes to recess on this exchange

Andrew Branca, LOSD ‏@LawSelfDefense 1m  #Zimmerman Trial: MOM: "Do you think George Zimmerman was telling the truth?" Serino: "Yes." BAM



Bam indeed.

86 Later, all. God bless. :-)

87 81 Ok. Crossbows at 50 paces you two.

Longbows.
 

Posted by: Blanco Basura at July 01, 2013 05:59 PM (4WhSY)

 

OK... but no Frying pans used a shields... that would be cheating...

88 That's BS...., it is only necessary that we relax the standards.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at July 01, 2013 05:58 PM (aDwsi)

They relaxed the standards in the book.  The women died and died and died even though they were fighting for their world and their kids.  They did find things that the women excelled at, but, regular grunt infantry for 99% of women is not it.  It is a fabulous book.

89 Was Serino a detective on the GZ case?

90 Was Serino a detective on the GZ case?

Lead investigator, and a State's witness.

91 91 Was Serino a detective on the GZ case? Yeah he's the one who was forced to resign after he decided not to press charges.

92 85 And, the offending Republican would be forced to go on a national apology parade. See, e.g., Paula Dean's 30 year old comment vs. Jesse Jackson's Hymietown comment. Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at July 01, 2013 05:59 PM (OWjjx) Or Alec Baldwin's homophobic twitter rant last week. By the by, it has been my understanding that Paula Deen is a Democrat. She features Dem politicians exclusively on her shows (Jimmy Carter and Michelle Obama, to name a couple.) I think it's just that she is white, fat, Southern, and speaks in a funny accent (plus she loves her some butter) that was against her in this. Full disclosure: my Texan drawl surfaces from time to time, when I am tired, angry, or with kinfolk. I am not dissing drawls, just noting that the liberal elite despise them

93 87 Toby 928th,

Breaking news EricHolder@mypeopledoj "I'm gonmna indict that whole department on civil rights charges cracka"

94 very sad.
prayers for the families.
hope the fire is contained soon.

95 I can't imagine what the lone survivor on this strike team is going through. 

96 Summary of lead investigator so far - GZ story remained materially consistent in all interviews, everything pointed to GZ telling the truth, when investigator bluffed about likely having video of event GZ was relieved and said "Thank god, I was hoping someone had gotten video of it".

97 The Zimmerman case and trial is something Kafka might write but only after someone spiced his hookah with LSD.

98 97 California Red,

well survivor's guilt, bravado, or serenity.

It's as tough a job in its way as combat arms only you can't outsmart the Opfor and Mom Nature wins all ties...

something tells me they've all dealt with mortality psychologically to some degree and the ones that haven't are hurting as bad as the survivors of the fallen.

99 Full disclosure: my Texan drawl surfaces from time to time, when I am tired, angry, or with kinfolk. I am not dissing drawls, just noting that the liberal elite despise them

Posted by: moki at July 01, 2013 06:04 PM (EvHC

 

It may be my paranoia  speaking but I am convinced that is why I couldn't even get a job in NYC in the mail room of all the advertisment agencies I  interviewed with.    Mine was a  Southwest  Louisiana accent with some East Texas mixed in. 

100 when investigator bluffed about likely having video of event GZ was relieved and said "Thank god, I was hoping someone had gotten video of it". Ouch.

101 I understand that those emergency fire shelters are constructed of multiple layers of reflective foil- at about 500F the glue holding it together disintegrates and the shelter comes apart- the shelter is supposed to protect the firefighter from extreme heat, not direct exposure to flame- these men likely were overtaken by wind-driven flames and had no chance but to deploy the shelters and hope for the best. Sad day for Arizona. Condolences to the families of those lost. Thank God we have men and women willing to step forward and do this dangerous work.

102 99 Anna Puma,

If Hollywood had any balls they'd make a film based on this lunacy...

hell even let them switch ethnic identities for giggles.

I grasp this is about self-defense, and the right of people to want to live.

Switch anything I'll side with the defender not the aggressor....

Jeantel can't say that

103 I don't know which media source this is from but......Bob Owens tweeted it.... http://tinyurl.com/mc5xng2

104 My nephew (33 years old) fights fires with the Forest Service. He used to work for the BLM in New Mexico, and the Forest Service is a big step up. I think he is in Colorado now (based in Montana) fighting fires. I've been sick about this since I heard. Glad it wasn't him, but so very, very sad that these brave young guys were killed. This is a very dangerous job that requires incredible strength, skill , stamina and guts, but mostly guts. My nephew is about 6'2" tall, 185 and solid muscle. Part of their qualification is being able to carry 40 pounds of hose over your shoulder at a dead run for 1/2 mile, in a timed run. He rappels out of copters into fires, and does all other kinds of difficult stuff. These guys are all really highly trained and in terrific condition. I saw a few of the comments on "twitchy" today about "global warming" and the fires and I had to stop or I would explode and scream. Assholes.

105 102 when investigator bluffed about likely having video of event GZ was relieved and said "Thank god, I was hoping someone had gotten video of it".  


Ouch.    

Posted by: rickb223 at July 01, 2013 06:07 PM (7qw1E)

 

 

Isn't it fun that when the Police LIE to you, its OK, but for you to lie to the Police, is a Felony?

 

ie... the State may lie to you... you may not lie to the State... shows who is the Master...

106 A terrible, terrible thing.  RIP.

It makes one glad though that there are men brave enough to fight to save others.

107 102 - Yup and perfectly timed as the last few anwser\statements along with "I thought he was telling the truth" were the last the jury heard for the day as they were recessed for the night right after that.

108 101 polynikes,

I'm Ohio Midwestern, with a spot of Canuckian, and a little Texan...

needless to say no one will ever accuse me of being from New England.

109 WUT?! FoxÂ’s Greta Van Susteren Allegedly Initiated Meetings With CNN Looking To Rejoin Network http://tinyurl.com/lpdjmsg

110

105 I don't know which media source this is from but......Bob Owens tweeted it....



 

http://tinyurl.com/mc5xng2

 

-----------

 

Tami...it's from the main page, top headline, of foxnews.com.

 

111 111 Tami,

She's a moonbat at heart...a fair moonbat but she swings left.

It may well be they are really serious about trying to be a new news network...

bwahahaha

112 Is PhoenixGirl okay?  Sounds close to where she is.  Or her nic, anyway.

113 Gary Larson, The Far Side. On bears and humans.

http://annapuna.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-far-side.html

From last thread, posted as it died for this one.

114 107 - Yup, well actually there are some limits to what they can lie to you about, but yeah in general they can and will tell you just about anything if it suits their purpose.

115 Greta should take Geraldo with her.

116 Tami...it's from the main page, top headline, of foxnews.com. Posted by: wheatie at July 01, 2013 06:12 PM (Jw4kG) Oh....well, not a really the 'MSM'.

117 117 Toby 928th,

and O'shamrock

118

Pardon my ignorance, but can't anyone make a profit by felling the dead trees and cleaning up the brush ?

 

I would think the wood has to be of some value.

 

Or is the Government in the way, again?

119 Tami, I hope she heads back to CNN so she can be herself.

120 seamrog, the environmentalists tend to oppose such common sense forest management.  Preserving nature and all that. So the kindling keeps building until that one spark.  And then Ka-Boom!

121

>> I would think the wood has to be of some value.

 

Beetle kill can't be used for much other than fuel.

122 112 - If that's the headline for her (she was helpful to the defense) I can't wait to see the headline for the lead investigator who dropped even bigger bombs on the prosecutions case. It's amazing to think we're still supposedly listening to the prosecutions side of this case.

123 They relaxed the standards in the book. The women died and died and died even though they were fighting for their world and their kids. They did find things that the women excelled at, but, regular grunt infantry for 99% of women is not it. It is a fabulous book. 

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes C'est Magnifique at July 01, 2013 06:01 PM (kXoT0)


Read Amazon's first chapter excerpt ...

Was it that the women excelled at being sacrificial lambs?  

124 121 Ronster,

no newsie should ever have to live in the closet...

Shine Greta Shine@!

and get your jaw reattached to your head doll

125 My mouth isn't really crooked per se, it's that I have a condition that causes permanent farting.

126

Or is the Government in the way, again?

 

Yes, and the environmental wacko's.  It's what caused all the beetle kill in the first place.  Couldn't spray with  pesticides.

127 121 - Indeed.

128 She's a moonbat at heart...a fair moonbat but she swings left. It may well be they are really serious about trying to be a new news network... bwahahaha Posted by: Esteban10077@sven10077 at July 01, 2013 06:12 PM (LRFds) For a leftie, I found her pretty unbiased in her reporting. The article says SHE contacted them. I don't get that....Fox has the highest ratings in all the evening timeslots. Why would she go to a channel with lower ratings?

129

>>>Was it that the women excelled at being sacrificial lambs?

 

 

Just the Tip of the spear?

130 >Or is the Government in the way, again? Posted by: seamrog at July 01, 2013 06:15 PM (FC0Uh) the govt and its whoremaster, the environmental lobby

131 The reason why the MSM isn't going 'OMG Global Warming!!!' over this right now is because parts of the country are still in mid-spring weather. I've never had an electric bill that used as few units this late in the season as this year. I do believe in the power of the media to brainwash the low information types, but when they're sitting huddled in a room, in July, with a space heater on, there's only so much bullshit they'll swallow before they catch a fucking clue.

132 130 Tami,

Believe it or not a fair but left leaning CNN was one of the ingredients that allowed 1994 to happen....

hell Newt got the message out on ABC back when Brinkley was running the Sundays and George Will was still young and vibrant and acting like Tron....

I miss my 20s

133 there's only so much bulls*** they'll swallow before they catch a f***ing clue.

I wish I could believe that.  I truly do.

134 Not that I think there would be many takers but any chance shemp makes a move? Could we get that lucky?

135 West Fork Complex fire in southern Colorado is over 90,000 acres and still going strong. Dense beetle-killed spruce. We were over sixty miles from the fire all last week and had some days with unbelievably dense smoke. Pix at link in my Nick. Those who are suggesting "clearing out the underbrush" need to reconsider the vastness of the forests.

136

The article says SHE contacted them. I don't get that....Fox has the highest ratings in all the evening timeslots. Why would she go to a channel with lower ratings?

 

Doesn't want to stay at Fox for reasons other than ratings? Ideology, personality conflicts, wants more control over her on-air persona than Fox will allow and she thinks that another channel might give her what she wants?

137 Has the prosecution put on any witnesses that have bolstered their case? 

Except for the delicate flower of Jeantel who liberals will attest was devastating to the defense!  And even if she wasn't we white people just don't understand her.

138 back when Brinkley was running the Sundays and George Will was still young and vibrant and acting like Tron....

I remember that.  All of the rest of them would speak, and then look expectantly at Will, as if looking forward to the inevitable cosmic ass-whipping.

139 Pardon my ignorance, but can't anyone make a profit by felling the dead trees and cleaning up the brush ?

I would think the wood has to be of some value.

Or is the Government in the way, again? Posted by: seamrog at July 01, 2013 06:15 PM


Yes, they could.  The wood is usable.  Yes, they are.

140
Maybe Greta's contract is up soon and she wants to be able to negotiate with FNC with another offer up her sleeve so she can ask for more money. Ratings are irrelevant; all she cares about is the contract. She is a lawyer, after all.

All these TV personalities would do their show in front of a kindergarten class if it paid them the most.

141 >>Why would she go to a channel with lower ratings? $

142

>>Those who are suggesting "clearing out the underbrush" need to reconsider the vastness of the forests.

 

All of the private forests up here have been cleared and  have had the beetle kill burned. It's the public land that is the problem, now.

143 135 Pep,

Believe it...my power bill here in Indiana was ~35 bucks versus ~ 90 bucks last year....

Freeshit Army and Low Information Voter are not necessarily evil even if they are bad at civics, if you ask them they've outsmarted society by getting their news off the daily show and twatter and facebook...

you tell 'em an outright falsehood that insults their intelligence too hard they'll bust out their own memehammer...

it's why the GOP is gonna get fucked and lose the white working class for a decade in a bit.

144

130...The article says SHE contacted them. I don't get that....Fox has the highest ratings in all the evening timeslots. Why would she go to a channel with lower ratings?

 

It could be Contract Renewal Time for Greta...and maybe she's checking to see what she could make elsewhere?

 

145 "Why would she go to a channel with lower ratings?" --- Sounds like this was during the time she was in new contract negotiations with Fox - leverage for that most likely. Also perhaps she was concerned for whatever reasons or scuttlebutt about fox moving her around in the lineup.

146 >Those who are suggesting "clearing out the underbrush" need to reconsider the vastness of the forests. we do it, or the next fire does it

147 Maybe Greta's contract is up soon and she wants to be able to negotiate with FNC with another offer up her sleeve so she can ask for more money. Ratings are irrelevant; all she cares about is the contract. She is a lawyer, after all.

All these TV personalities would do their show in front of a kindergarten class if it paid them the most.

148

Re: clearing dead trees and brush

 

Thanks to all who responded.

 

My guess was it was the greentards and the govtards. 

 

Can I please have my Country back?  

Shit.

149 >>All of the private forests up here have been cleared and have had the beetle kill burned. It's the public land that is the problem, now. It's even worse in Australia. The rules for clearing brush on private property are even more draconian and when the fires come down toward places like Sydney that is surrounded by the mountains behind them and the ocean in front the results are predictably devastating. Liberals take no responsibility for this because, well, they're liberals.

150 When they had the big fire at I think Lake Tahoe a few years ago, the only houses in one area that did not burn were the houses of a guy who illegally cleared the brush from around his and his ex-wife.  He said he'd pay the fine.

151 I spent 2 years on a fire dept. I can't even explain the intensity of the heat. I was at a furniture store fire one time. Cars that were 30 feet from the building were just catching fire and exploding because of the heat. I got within 50 feet of the place and the heat was was like nothing I ever felt. The best way I can explain is picture laying on the beach in the sun, and somebody comes along and turns on 3 more suns. I have no clue wtf  they expect those shelters to do, but from my experience if you are even debating getting into one of those, its probably way too fucking late.

152 All of the private forests up here have been cleared and have had the beetle kill burned. It's the public land that is the problem, now. Posted by: garrett at July 01, 2013 06:23 PM (2TQQt) ***** Yeah. I'm just pointing out that there is a big difference between fire mitigation efforts on a several acre private lot compared to trying to clear out hundreds of square miles of National Forest. Wildfires are nature's way of dealing with forest clutter.

153 "Has the prosecution put on any witnesses that have bolstered their case? " --- One or two didn't entirely throw it to the defense, the rest so far (dozen?) on cross have gone almost entirely the defenses way, and each of those who have done so have been of the highly credible variety.

154 Colorado is a bomb waiting to go off. 

The wildlife, death and destruction mean nothing to them.  Liberal policies kill.

155 Wheatie, the article says Greta just resigned with Fox. Maybe she was trying to leave before she reupped. I dunno.

156 Freeshit Army™ - I'm stealing that.

157 153 ThisBeingMilt,

It's bad enough I really am wondering if the DA is going through the motions to either put the riots to bed, or undermine the majority of the rage....

like I said earlier my new beanie is bronze the tin foil one wore out.

158 153 - thank you - that's what I thought but haven't been able to follow this case as much as I've wanted to.

159 JackStraw - I still can't get out of my head the pictures from the Aussie fires.  There was one with an entire family in the water hanging off of a pier to save their  lives.

160 Liberal policies kill. Unfortunately, never libs.

161 I went to a wedding last week here in NC. A woman at our table brought a couple friends over to hear me "tawk" with my MA accent. They were oh so impressed. My wife less so.

162 Unfortunately, never libs. Posted by: rickb223

This.

163 Was it that the women excelled at being sacrificial lambs?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at July 01, 2013 06:17 PM (oY6Yp)

Partly, but, more to do with the things that women naturally excel at such as communication.  I do not want to spoil the book for anyone.

164 Aren't objects made from beetle fungus colored woods kind of a boutique industry? Nice blues you'd never other wise see. I don't know if I saw some on TV or some local shop/fair, but somewhere.

165 @ 151 I've seen discussions of the wildfire that killed 13 smokejumpers in Colorado in 1994. Basically if you can clear a dozen yards or so on either side of you of all flammable grass and brush, then you lie in the shelter and let the inferno pass you to either side. If not, you die.

166 Why are people dying to save houses? Ridic.

167 Link to today's testimony in various parts. The Count - Full video archive by witness: http://tinyurl.com/nqm6yhh Specific link if you only have about 35m and want to catch the last part of the cross of lead investigator. (it started well before this though) http://tinyurl.com/lj56eb4 Specific link if you want to just catch the last 3 minutes of court today...the video bluff and response bomb just before recess. http://tinyurl.com/pj7bldg

168

A few years ago, I received a cold call from a politician saying that he had been given my name as someone who would be a great conservative candidate for a state  office.

He asked if I had any interest.

 I wouldn't have any chance of winning, because of the amount of (D) LIV's in the area.

For a split second, I considered it. But only that split second. I am by no means a squeaky-clean choir boy.

 

I declined, explaining why.

 

He asked that I do it just to divert (D) funds from other elections.  I understood the logic behind his request, but I had no desire to have my life under the MSM microscope.

 

It'd be more like being under a magnifying glass on a sunny day. That day I realized that you had to be insane to run for public office.

Everything that I have watched since has solidified my opinion.   Really sad if you think about it.

169

Posted by: weft cut-loop   at July 01, 2013 06:34 PM (XS/b3)

Assuming that the majority of the trees are mature.  They aren't. 

The number of mature trees dictates the economic viability of harvesting them.  Like I said, most of the beetle kill forests are good only for fuel.  No reason we can't use them for that and for pulp, though.

 

 

170

>>>I'm just pointing out that there is a big difference between fire mitigation efforts on a several acre private lot compared to trying to clear out hundreds of square miles of National Forest.

 

Oh, I'm talking hundreds and in many cases even  thousands of acres of private forest. 

171 Oh, I'm talking hundreds and in many cases even thousands of acres of private forest.

Posted by: garrett at July 01, 2013 07:07 PM (2TQQt)

 

***

 

Sorry for the late reply on a dead thread.  I appreciate your perspective, and I don't pretend to be any kind of expert.  It just strikes me as an interested observer as I drive through the mountains of Colorado that the sheer size and remoteness, combined with the density of the trees would make any sort of thinning process very time and labor intensive.  It seems that many of the people who work in fire mitigation, also work as firefighters, so the resources are spread very thin.  

 

It does seem to me   that decades of "management" has created an explosive tinderbox in the public lands of Colorado.

172 "The firefighters, trapped by the hellish blaze, sought refuge in their fire shelters, which are portable individual tents which can reflect away some amount of heat and keep some cool air inside. But the shelters failed, possibly because wind batted them around."

Look for the Union Label, Boeing batteries as well.

173

I will take no position on the management (beetle-damaged forests) matter, but .....

 

..... to echo/amplify what pep said up-thread, a primary and huge question that needs to be asked (not just in light of this tragedy, either, though obviously related to it) is just what fire-fighting strategy does actually make sense and seem worth it.

 

Live in a southwestern state with wildfires as part of the package.  Here there seems to be a sensible mix (anything sensible here is stunning - yes, it's CA):  codes about clearing fuel away from buildings, requirements for on-site water storage in certain remote locations, no-nonsense evacuation approach in places with one road in/out.  Insurance rates reflect risk.  Nothing lately has happened to test this part out, but I know that on certain federal lands (big Yellowstone fire years back?), FINALLY, it has been suggested (and actually followed) to let nature take its course.  Squelch things when safe and feasible at the outset, beyod that evacuate life, contain safely when feasible.  Otherwise, let it burn (to coin a phrase).

 

No idea where the AZ tragedy would fit into this matrix, but I think there's little serious argument for doing more than protecting life in almost all situations.  This assumes that sensible preventive measures are in place (fuel clearing from structures, fire-resistant structures, etc.).  There are few situations where sensible-to-aggressive preventive measures will no prevent or mitigate property damage (not enough situations to alter the general principle here).

 

I think it's actually pretty outrageous that lives are risked in this way outside cases of rescuing humans.  Fire is as natural as climate change, and in a similar way trying to resist it is likely to be as and futile dangerous as the climate nonsense is impoverishing.

 

 

 

174 Just a few points for the moron hoard,\:

This was an IHC (Inter Agency Hotshot Crew) They can work on fires not only on USFS lands but BLM, Park Service, USFW, BIA, State, County and local.  They may even travel over seas, Australia for example.  When man power is short you can find Ausies, Kiwis, and Canadians in over head positions on US fires.  Most hot shot crews are not inter agency meaning USFS crews will usually only work on National Forests or sometimes other Federal lands in bad years. 

Why aren't these fire prone areas thinned or treated to prevent the fires or mitigate the effects?

Environmental concerns are a problem.  You need to do at least a formal environmental assessment or more common Environmental Impact Statement and get that through the courts and public comment for each project.  There are literally hundreds of enviro groups /lawyers just waiting to sue the government over these things because the government pays them to, basically.

Another problem is money and manpower.  The wood removed is typically low value and poor  quality with the exception of house logs for log cabins.  The South Western US lacks the processing facilities, equipment, and manpower to do it even if the money was there.  The timber value is less than the costs to harvest it so... no money there.  

A friends crew get burned over and they deployed the baked potato wrappers.  Only one got minor burns but the winds associated with the fire front make it very difficult to deploy and hold down once inside.  They also fill with smoke.  He figured he would die from the smoke trapped inside instead of the fire outside.  He had to dig a little hole to put his face into to find any air to breathe.  Not fun.  Fortunately the year before that was my last year on fires otherwise it was likely I would have been with him.