1 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

2 let it burn

3 Burn it down. Scatter the stones. Salt the earth where it stood.

4 So... now DrewM is doing movie reviews? I don't think I like this movie.

5 “We’re not talking about criminals,” he says. “We’re talking about immigrant workers caught up in a failed government-visa program.” And he's lost me. There's a reason the correct technical term is "Illegal alien." They are criminals- they violated the law (that is: committed a crime). I'm sorry that it was an inconvenient law, but it was a law all the same.

6 We need to stop acting as if the current crop of illegals are merely "line-cutters" who jumped the queue. Our immigration laws have specific restrictions that basically will only allow people to come here if they would benefit the country. The overwhelming majority of illegals do not meet these requirements, and therefore would NEVER have been allowed to immigrate under the current laws. The result of this amnesty will be tens of millions of new immigrants who our laws were specifically designed to KEEP OUT.

7 That Rand Paul guy is a jerk and doesn't like Obama because he hates person's of color. Kentucky was a Confederate State that has no got over the War Between the States.

8 They broke the law. They don't deserve special treatment. They don't deserve benefits. They deserve to be shipped to their country of origin. They deserve to be placed at the bottom of any legal waiting list after their ten-year ban on coming to America. If someone breaks into your house, do you feed him, clothe him, and pay his medical bills, or do you shoot him and then call the police to report an intruder?

9

Not treating everyone the same way is un-American.

 

 

10 Immorality is the new morality, Drew

Just as lying is the new truth.

Not long, now.

11 Our immigration laws have specific restrictions that basically will only allow people to come here if they would benefit the country. Not true. It was true once, but it hasn't been for quite a while. Current rules value "family" over industry.

12 This formerly spammy email got a whole lot creepier - "You have more friends on Facebook than you think"

13 Let's sell America to the lowest bidder

14 Shorter: Politicians don't play by the rules. Why should we expect more from our illegal immigrants? Still shorter: Rules are for chumps!

15 He's talked about broader visa reform before. If that's part of what he means, and votes no on Go8, he's got my backing. If he votes for Go8 as is, I'll be fairly dismayed, because he wouldn't be saying what he believes.

16 The current system can't handle the approximately 1 million legal immigrants per year in an efficient manner. In what universe will an influx of 8, 10, 15 who knows how many millions more not have an adverse affect on the current waiting list?

Seems like a good opportunity to hire a hundred thousand more unionized bureaucrats with Studies degrees.

How dare we keep SCOAMF from creating jobs, etc.

17 It's the damned failed visa program. If I had known that sooner...

18 illegal immigrants have more rights than citizens....

they get in state tuition

they get let off for DUIs and Domestic violence because "culutre"

they get starter loans at ridiculously low interest

I'm dying my hair and working on a shitty accent

19 “We’re not talking about criminals,” he says. “We’re talking about immigrant workers caught up in a failed government-visa program.” --Rand Paul "We are not talking about bank-robbers. We are talking folks caught up in a failed government benefits program."

20 If someone breaks into your house, do you feed him, clothe him, and pay his medical bills, or do you shoot him and then call the police to report an intruder? And if you choose to feed and clothe him, and pay his medical bills, why is it then also incumbent upon you not to call the cops? That is- You could choose to feed and clothe him, and then call the cops anyway. Amnesty folks are saying, "Nope, since you decided not to shoot first and ask questions later, now you also can't call the cops on this known and wanted criminal."

21

This formerly spammy email got a whole lot creepier - "You have more friends on Facebook than you think"

 

Friends?  I don't think that word  means what they think  it means.

 

Hi Bob!

22  Let's sell America to the lowest bidder

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at June 12, 2013 10:25 AM (MnSla)

-------------------------------------

Sell?  How about we give it away.

23 My feeling is, if they wanted the land so bad, they should have fought harder for it when it mattered. They didn't, they lost, and it's America now- so suck it. MY country.

24 11 This formerly spammy email got a whole lot creepier - "You have more friends on Facebook than you think"

Posted by: That Guy at June 12, 2013 10:25 AM (EMye6)

Just the truth.

25 illegal immigrants have more rights than citizens.... If a cop pulls *me* over, he gets to demand my identification. If a copy pulls an "illegal* over, he's not allowed to ask for identification. Does that seem right to you?

26 "Our immigration laws have specific restrictions that basically will only allow people to come here if they would benefit the country."

That hasn't been true since 1965. 

27 "Rand Paul is giving a speech this morning"

This puff piece by Michelle Fields (at Fox News) says it all about Randmesty.

"Unlike many of his Republican colleagues, Paul supports reform that allows undocumented immigrants to come out from the shadows and become taxpaying members of society."

Then three sentences later:

"Unlike the Gang of EightÂ’s plan, PaulÂ’s plan does not force undocumented immigrants to pay unreasonably harsh penalties in order to get probationary legal status. Most undocumented immigrants work low-wage jobs in America and cannot afford to pay back years of taxes."

Ah. So we need to hand out amnesty to illegals so that they can "become taxpaying members of society". But even by the admission of an amnesty proponent, those illegals aren't going to earn enough to be able to even pay their back taxes. That right there should illustrate the total insanity that this amnesty nonsense comes down to.

http://tinyurl.com/kaebbdh

Light up those phone lines and start writing those letters, people. This thing is coming down the tracks and this is probably the last shot at derailing it.

28 24 Gregory of Yardale,

it does if the goal is to "elect a new America" by the powers that be...

and that is what it is...

Socialist ass fuckholes the western world over have done it every time they realize they can lose power...

fuck them with the fiery barbed cock of satan

29 If someone breaks into your house, do you feed him, clothe him, and pay his medical bills, or do you shoot him and then call the police to report an intruder? --- The first part is correct, but I put them in the old well. It eliminates a lot of red tape.

30 Can you imagine what Schumer and his ilk would've saying about immigration if it were clearly evident the larger part of these new arrivals would vote Republican?

31 If you want to be literal, we are all criminals, as we commit felonies about 2 times a day. You might say illegal immigration is a worse crime than our daily felonies(probably right), but simply equating illegally going from one country to another is the same as bank robbery is kinda stupid.

32 "Our immigration laws have specific incentives that basically allow people to come here so they will apply for welfare benefits from the country." Fixed.

33 21
Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at June 12, 2013 10:27 AM (RNhbC)


Kind of amounts to the same thing don't it?, when the asking price is a promise to be announced at a later date and fulfilled never.

34

Just remember that  Nazi   Georgi Soros  has  Open Borders   as one of his major organizations.

 

It  is   his fondest wish to destroy us through   immigration  and multiculturalism.

35 If a cop pulls *me* over, he gets to demand my identification. If a copy pulls an "illegal* over, he's not allowed to ask for identification. Does that seem right to you? Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at June 12, 2013 10:27 AM (QXlbZ) Had a Jubal Early flashback on reading that last line.

36 Oh FFS. They are destroying our Country on purpose.  The traitors are the politicians and unelected officials.

37

I saw the "Monsters of Rock" tour back in '89 at the L.A. colliseum. I had floor seats, which meant that I was on the grass of the football field. Metal poles had been sunk into the ground and a chain link fence had been strung between the poles to seperate the "floor" from the bleachers. When Metallica hit the stage, a few people jumped the fence so they could mosh on the floor. The police were very slow to grab any of these folks. Seeing that others could jump the fence at not get kicked out of the show, a good chunk of the people in the bleachers rushed the fence and through sheer weight of numbers, actually bent the pipes and flattened the fence. Things then got a little rowdy and the police or concert promoters pulled the power to the show. Metallica quit playing but never left the stage. Someone turned the power back on and Hetfield called for people to calm down and enjoy the show. Once things did, they resumed the show, but except for a couple of people hurt in the inital rush and sent to the hospital, the people from the bleachers got to intermingal with those of us that had spent the money on floor seats.

Between that and amnesty, all this proves to me is that obeying the rules is for suckers.

38 This website don't like TOR browser. All the IPs are banned. I guess the trolls have been using it...

39 I don't agree that immigration isn't a moral issue, I just don't think it's black and white either way. My libertarian side wants open immigration, but my conservative side sees that's impossible with our current welfare state and lack of border security.

40 35 Oh FFS. They are destroying our Country on purpose. The traitors are the politicians and unelected officials. Posted by: Infidel at June 12, 2013 10:33 AM (O/fK Now, finally, people believe this.

41 Had a Jubal Early flashback on reading that last line.


"Well....here I am...."

42 Apparently, it is difficult to spy on illegal aliens, thus the need for amnesty.

43 I just don't get why the GOP lemmings are so intent on running off this cliff. The only motivation that fits their behavior is hatred of the country or of people like us, their supposed constituents.

44 Rand has tasted the dick of compromise. Will he swallow?

45 36 Darth Randall,

You need to Hispanize your name...

Mine is Francisco

46 So... now DrewM is doing movie reviews?

Is this about Crossing Over? That movie tried very hard to be Crash, except about illegal immigration.

Not even stark-naked Alice Eve redeemed that turd.

47 What about the morality of putting a gun to my head and making me pay for the education, food, housing and medical bills of those who broke the law to come here? Riddle me that. Here. Have a video representation of my response. Oh so very NSFW. http://youtu.be/pDWzGm1W0WY

48 WHY THE FUCK DO PEOPLE KEEP SAYING OUR CURRENT SYSTEM IS BROKEN WHEN THE FUCKERS ARENT ENFORCING ANY OF THE MOTHER FUCKING LAWS? HOW CAN SOMETHING THAT ISNT EVEN BEING TRIED BE UNIVERSALLY CONDEMNED AS BROKEN? The only fucking thing broken is noone is stopping people from entering our country illegally.

49

"Unlike the Gang of EightÂ’s plan, PaulÂ’s plan does not force
undocumented immigrants to pay unreasonably harsh penalties in order to
get probationary legal status. Most undocumented immigrants work
low-wage jobs in America and cannot afford to pay back years of taxes."

-

Will somebody with half a brain please publish the estimated cost of amnesty with regard to the EITC?

50 I see Clint Eastwood it running the delete comment button today.

51 Not even stark-naked Alice Eve redeemed that turd. That's saying something. Also- did anyone else just see some troll comment get un'd?

52 So lets have a really good amnesty program of our own. Lets implement a flat tax and put all of the IRS agency to work going thru the backlog of legal immigrant applications. Lets disband the EPA and use the agents the same way. We tell all immigrants that applications must come from their country of origin, accompanied by proof that they are there in person. Then slam the gates and put all of the employees of the education department on border control duty. Then tell all of the current govt employees that 2/3 of them are going away in three years and we are keeping the best ones based on a measurement system that measures how well they do their new jobs. Hey, a guy can dream can't he?

53 Also- did anyone else just see some troll comment get un'd?


The BH3K moves like a ninja.  Unseen and lethal.

54 "Unlike the Gang of EightÂ’s plan, PaulÂ’s plan does not force undocumented immigrants to pay unreasonably harsh penalties in order to get probationary legal status. Most undocumented immigrants work low-wage jobs in America and cannot afford to pay back years of taxes." *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk*

55 Are they creating a situation where it will be a disadvantage to apply for a job as a US citizen? Think about the combination of Obamacare and this amnesty bill. Obamacare mandates employers either pay a penalty or provide insurance if their business qualifies. Amnesty bill will form a group of individuals in a gray area for 13 yrs where they'll neither qualify for insurance nor be subjected to the penalty. So two engineer grads from UT Austin, one a DREAMER the other a citizen....who would the business hire? The grad they do not have to pay either the penalty or provide insurance. Hence the DREAMER is at a huge advantage. El Rushbo made a quick reference to this issue yesterday.

56 Then tell all of the current govt employees that 2/3 of them are going away in three years and we are keeping the best ones based on a measurement system that measures how well they do their new jobs. Hey, a guy can dream can't he? Posted by: Mephitis at June 12, 2013 10:36 AM (qF0of) In many countries if you don't have a skill to offer, don't even bother asking.

57 Posted by: Darth Randall at June 12, 2013 10:33 AM (mV8sg) It's better than that. In your comparison the bleacher crashers not only got to stay in the expensive area, it is as if the management also served them free cocktails and paid their medical bills for getting scratched up.

58 step one- take over the schools to raise a generation of idiots step two- make those idiots dependent on government hand-outs step three- import millions more poor people and get them into 'the program' it works[/i[

59 I reject the entire moral premise. It's a strawman for the real issue which is fairness.

The concept of fairness involves a comprehensive look at the entire immigration process- both legal and illegal. But that's a perspective those placing emphasis on the "illegal" offenders don't want people to have. It's why their appeals are ethos and not factual.

Fairness involves the basic concept that people choosing the legal process take precedent over the illegal perpetrators. It designates those who chose their first act in America to be one of breaking the law as beneath the character of those choosing the legal route.

In following, those who are illegal are not entitled to anything; not benefits, healthcare, schooling and definitely not citizenship unless they go back to their home country and legally re apply.

I've grown a little tired of people who take what is a logical, intellectual discussion about fairness or process and turn it into an emotional debate based on political tendencies and electoral strategy. That includes Rand Paul, whom I certainly don't need a lecture from on fairness and whose contra-intellectual appeals are nothing but moral demagoguery. 

60 In many countries if you don't have a skill to offer, don't even bother asking.

----

Well ..... voting Democrat is a skill.

61 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 12, 2013 10:37 AM (/PCJa) Do you think we will ever actually enforce the back tax requirements? I seriously doubt it, even if Go8 passes.

62 i feel an embarreling coming on

63 Had a Jubal Early flashback on reading that last line. --- You're not in my gorram mind, you're on my gorram ship!

64 >Well ..... voting Democrat is a skill. Posted by: fixerupper at June 12, 2013 10:39 AM (nELVU) not really- push the button, get a food pellet

65 Why is this even a topic for Debate? The Late Great Sonny Bono, when asked what he thought about Illegal immigration responded: "Well, it's illegal, isn't it? "

66 This is exciting. We're alive to see the end of the republic unfolding.

67 BTW, it's amazing how the system already bends over for illegals. Never mind all the interpreters your tax dollars have to fund. In misdemeanor courts, Public Defenders -- especially the more bleeding heart ones -- will often try to negotiate a better deal for their undocumented clients by saying how the original offer will get the poor darlings tossed out of the country. Sure, why shouldn't non-citizen criminals get more consideration than citizen ones? Why should the criminal justice system be any different from the rest of our corrupt and monstrous State?

68 I'm dying my hair and working on a shitty accent Que?

69 Rand has tasted the dick of compromise. Many have so tasted while feeling on their foreheads the soothing warmth of the scrotum of bipartisanship.

70 Under the Mr. Feverhead immigration plan we immediately deport illegals then let the matching number of people in off the legal waiting list. If you've been deported twice you go on a second list as undesirable and not eligible for immigration. I call this two strikes and you're out system fair amnesty for current illegals. You decide to follow-our laws and you get one do-over. Now go to the end of the line. Why in the world are we rewarding law breaking and line cutting?

71 “WeÂ’re not talking about criminals,” he says. “WeÂ’re talking about immigrant workers SNEAKING in  through a government-visa program DEFRAUDED BY UNSCRUPULOUS CRIMINALS.”

72 28

The first part is correct, but I put them in the old well. It eliminates a lot of red tape.

Posted by: That Guy at June 12, 2013 10:29 AM (EMye6)

I find that large hampers, tall lockers, and stand-alone closets work well, too.

73 64 Diogenes Lamp,

It is open for debate because the GOP leadership is either retarded oir in on the gag

65 soothsayer,

Yup...

let it burn and start drying out the kindling...this leviathan needs wrecked.

74 Do you think we will ever actually enforce the back tax requirements? Probably not. But if you're going to throw it out for practical reasons, admit that you're doing it because "we would never enforce it anyway." Don't make some lame excuse about it not being fair to illegal aliens. You know, if politicians would speak honestly about their plans, and the ramifications thereof, I bet support for "comprehensive immigration reform" would be about 10%.

75 You need to Hispanize your name...

Mine is Francisco

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at June 12, 2013 10:35 AM (LRFds)

------

 

I would but I haven't lived in Cali in 23 years. I'm a Texan now... oh wait...

76 This is not about fucking "immigration."  Goddammit.  It is about a virtually unchecked migration of millions of another nation's impoverished across a border of a 1000 miles.  That is fuckidng invasion, not immigration.  Close the fucking border, begin deporation proceedings against all here illegally, at least those we can identiy, starting with those that have committed crimes in addition to illegally entering the Country.  Otherwise, national fucking suicide.  In one fell swoop.  I'm sure John McCain will see to this right away.  Fucking treasonous traitors all. 

77 *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 12, 2013 10:37 AM (/PCJa) I was wondering what that banging noise was.

78

"they get let off for DUIs and Domestic violence because "culture""

 

 

They get a pass because there is no money there. Cops target the middle class because they actually have something to lose by skipping out of court. The middle class pay fines. Illegal's don't.

 

 Â“WeÂ’re not talking about criminals,”

 

Why the fuck not!!?? Because only Mexico's greatest and brightest are the only segment of society sneaking across the border? Goshen, Indiana, has a friggin' Latino gang problem. Goshen. Indiana. Our lawmakers are insulated against the crimes perpetuated by the criminal element that have found their way into our county. Rubio, Schumer, Boener, and the lot of them don't give a frig. The one and only one thing they are responsible for, to secure our country from intruders, they have not done. The lawlessness in this country has only just started. After this round of amnesty, there will be NO southern border. The gate will be open to every thief, drug dealer, rapist, pedophile, and insane fuck that can make it here.

Not talking about criminals?

Spit.

79 There's a reason the correct technical term is "Illegal alien." They are criminals- they violated the law (that is: committed a crime). I'm sorry that it was an inconvenient law, but it was a law all the same. Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) --------------------------- I'm thinking that the 72 year-old lady in the Morning Dump link ought to be placed in charge of ICE.

80 Ehhh, I may finally go third party after this.  Never thought I'd say that because it's such a loser.   Do we have an equivalent of UKIP here?

81

I would agree right now to give the illegals here legal status but not the ability to be a citizen ever.  They should never be  rewarded  for their illegal actions  and  be  given the right to vote and participate in the political system.  If they want to do that they need to get their ass back to Mexico or wherever they came from and apply like everyone else. 

 

With legal status though they can remain here and their children can become citizens via birth in the country.

 

 

82 I was wondering what that banging noise was. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at June 12, 2013 10:44 AM (VtjlW)

83 Great post Drew!

I don't get what is so hard about this for people to understand.  If a nation cannot enforce its borders as it chooses, it is doomed.  I challenge any amnesty supported to point out one other country in the world that has an imigration policy such as they are proposing.

Somehow we are a "mean" country for choosing to enforce our borders and our laws.  BS!  As Drew points out, there are millions who are trying to enter our country the correct way.  Why should they be punished.  How is that even considered a possibility by some people.

84 67 rickb223,

Si....

Déme la libertad, la muerte, o un buen sándwich de carne

85

I had a long painful discussion on this subject with a liberal.  He kept insisting that it wasn't fair to 'exclude illegals from society'.  I changed the subject, and asked about his 401K.  'Oh, it is doing pretty good, and the company matches 50 cents on the dollar'.   I asked him how much of that money should be given to the homeless guy on the street in front of his building.  'Well, that's ridiculous, he isn't part of my company, so why should    he get any of my money?'

My response:  'So, he's   essentially like an illegal alien, but    when it comes to amnesty    you're perfectly willing to give the illegal alien   access to the     national funds.'

86 I did not read the post because I have had a great morning and I want to stay happy and unenraged. Just for the record, I would like to state that: Marco Rube-io is deader than dead to me. In fact, Marco who?

87 I would agree right now togivethe illegals here legal statusbut notthe ability to be acitizen ever.They should never be rewarded for their illegal actions and be given the right to vote and participate in thepolitical system. Part of me could accept that plan. Another part keeps whispering, "The ratchet only moves one way."

88

The illegal immigration problem has me literally in tears.   My mother and her family came here legally in the 50s.   My paternal grandfather was born in England and emigrated to America as a baby.   I would not EXIST were it not for legal immigration.   

 

And to now have our alleged representatives in Congress DARE to chastise ME for opposing     the legalization of     illegal immigrants         is enough to make me    literally sputter with fury.   I cannot put into words how    much rage I feel   on this issue.   My jaw is clenched so tightly that if I tried to speak right now, I wouldn't be able to.

 

The American people have no voice in the government today.  

89 "Temporary" visa  "overstays"

90 I had a long painful discussion on this subject with a liberal. He kept insisting that it wasn't fair to 'exclude illegals from society'. I changed the subject, and asked about his 401K. 'Oh, it is doing pretty good, and the company matches 50 cents on the dollar'. I asked him how much of that money should be given to the homeless guy on the street in front of his building. 'Well, that's ridiculous, he isn't part of my company, so why should he get any of my money?'
My response: 'So, he's essentially like an illegal alien, but when it comes to amnesty you're perfectly willing to give the illegal alien access to the national funds.'


This is at heart the liberal logic:  emotion.

91 Notice how they stopped doing the rallies with Mexican flags waving about? Stealth is the key. Stealth and distraction. We can not stop the historical forces at work. Collapse is inevitable and once it happens we can act with impunity. Until then the gloves stay on.

92 A flood of millions across a sovereign border of a 1000 miles is invasion.  It has nothing to do with "immigration."  It is criminal behavior-nothing more nothing less.  Why does it happen?  Like fighting in hockey, because they allow it.  But, in this case, the "they" are employers, politicians, unions, priests, "progressives," etc. Period. 

93

I mentioned this in the morning thread....

 

I received my quarterly Alumni Association newsletter from my alma mater...it was full of braggadocio and self-congratulations about now offering in-state resident tuition rates to illegal aliens....er, "undocumented students."  At last, the newsletter tells me, the University is achieving "educational equity."

 

Yes, the legal citizen born of parents who did everything right will sure think it's equitable that he's denied a place in that school in favor of someone who broke the law to get there.

 

 

94 Amnesty is a kick in the face to the law abiding of this nation and others. What in world can possibly go fucking wrong?

95 My response: 'So, he's essentially like an illegal alien, but when it comes to amnesty you're perfectly willing to give the illegal alien access to the national funds.' The light still didn't go on, did it?

96 Great post Drew! Well there's something you don't see...ever. A sign of the apocalypse?

97 Had a Jubal Early flashback on reading that last line.

---

You're not in my gorram mind, you're on my gorram ship!

Posted by: Jubal Early at June 12, 2013 10:39 AM (JGSJZ)

-------------

 

Now I love me some "Firefly", but the dumbest thing about the show- half the dialog is in Chinese and yet the cast and extras were mostly white, with a few blacks. What's up with that Joss?

98 74 You need to Hispanize your name...Mine is Francisco Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at June 12, 2013 10:35 AM (LRFds) ------ I would but I haven't lived in Cali in 23 years. I'm a Texan now... oh wait... --- Things have been changing in Louisiana and Mississippi as well, post-Katrina. Not to the point where Spanish is the dominant language, but certainly much larger communities than before.

99

I would agree right now togivethe illegals here legal statusbut notthe ability to be acitizen ever.They should never be rewarded for their illegal actions and be given the right to vote and participate in thepolitical system.

 

The illegals don't give a shit about citizenship status.  They just want legal status.  The citizenship thing is a smokescreen.

 

 

100 Great points, Drew. I've long heard from some of my Catholic amigos that the current system in "unjust," but it seems that the graver injustice is perpetrated by the people who essentially cut in line and only backlog the system further, making it even more difficult for those trying to immigrate legally.

101 96 soothsayer,

there is about to be a wonderful realignment....

no shit the GOP is about to go Bud Philpott and I am thrilled it turns out...

let the bodies hit the floor

102 But the first rule of be coming a naturalized American is to respect America.



Alright, I'll bite.  How can I not?


You speak about respecting America, Drew M, of what it is, what it stands for.  Laying aside that our own citizens do not respect America,  here's the $64,000 question, though - what has America done lately that is worthy of respect? 


We have brave soldiers being killed off for no damned reason while kowtowing to Islam in what is undoubtedly the back end of the world, we murder over a million of our own infants a year, over half of our retarded countrymen voted for TFG again, welfare is no longer a safety net one accepts with shame, and gets away from as fast as possible, but a socially-acceptable lifestyle, we permit our government to run roughshod over us, with no accountability at all - 'resignations' and 'reassignments' that turn into lucrative lobbying gigs with no end in sight, we refer to a massacre of all-volunteer soldiers by a crazed Islamist from within our own ranks as 'workplace violence' ([[i] and the bastard is still fucking breathing three and a half years later)... I could go on.  We all could.  Hell, look at what was being done to Tami in the previous thread on 'back taxes' that are naught but trumped-up bullshit.


Oh, and we permit our government to monitor everything we say and do like we're in fucking China.


There isn't much of anything to be proud of in America anymore.  Our educational system is horrendous, our children are blown by the wind of popular Marxist-infested culture, and we have reached a point in our history where we permit reprobate bureaucrats to dictate to young women on certain kinds of 'public ground' just how they are permitted to defend themselves against rapists.


We are a nation of sycophants and ne'er-do-wells.  We eat, drink, and pretend the world's all right, with only a few of us giving any thought to the noble men and women who have died to protect their families, and their land - and get nothing in return for it but scorn.

I am not coming down on you, sir, but I do ask that you please tell me, as it was mentioned in your post as a prerequisite for coming to this land, just what do we have to be proud of anymore? 


I would really like to hear something to be proud of in this era.  I would really appreciate that, because I, for one, am no longer proud of my country.  I am ashamed of it.  I am shamed that men and women spill their blood for this land of unworthy fools.  -_- That is my honest feeling.  I wake up every morning, and see nothing to the contrary, day after day after day.

103 Give them green cards, let them stay, but treat them like current "legal" aliens (like my Mom from England). They can work, pay taxes, etc... But they can never vote. I think it's a good solution.

104 Is 'The Shadow' that illegals are hiding under funded by the government. 'cause really, it doesn't work worth a damn.

105 Well there's something you don't see...ever. That's not true. There was that one... well, no. Well how about... no, not that one either... All kidding aside, Drew has been pretty solid on the Amnesty thing.

106 >Do we have an equivalent of UKIP here? we had a TEA Party, but after a flurry of rallys and cookouts they have largely gone silent

107 96 Great post Drew! --------------------------------- Well there's something you don't see...ever. A sign of the apocalypse? Posted by: soothsayer at June 12, 2013 10:48 AM (xVKk3) Blind squirrel, stopped clock, etc etc.

108

So if it's "inhumane" to require Mexicans to actually live in Mexico until they can get the proper visas to be here legally...what are they implicitly saying about Mexico?

 

109 Now I love me some "Firefly", but the dumbest thing about the show- half the dialog is in Chinese and yet the cast and extras were mostly white, with a few blacks. What's up with that Joss?


The US-Sino superpower happened.  That's what.

110

Sadly, we're all emotivists now (damn you postmodernism) and the idea that Government can solve problems with it's "infinite resources" has taken over so that this problem will simply be wished away like all the other ones.

Crazy, I know.

It's gotten so bad, I can't read my Archdiocesan newspaper's "immigration" articles anymore because they're busy playing the compassion card.

One article actually warned that increased border protection would cause people to make crossings at harder places (and thus die) so I should feel really bad about boarder protection.

Really?  REALLY?

 

I actually, however expect this from Rand Paul, you go to far down the libertarian rabbit hole, and suddenly every man is an island, whose choices have no effect on any other man.  So a "undocumented worker" who jumps the border is isolated from the job he just took from someone else.

It's why I haven't been able to get on board with the whole "legalize drugs now!" thing.  It makes assumptions that are simply not supported by the facts.

Go ahead, change "border crossings" to drugs in my statement above and adjust accordingly:

"Increased drug enforcement would cause people to buy drugs in more dangerous ways."

This argument though we hear all the time.  And people buy it.  So why should we be surprised it's being turned against us?

111 Build a wall and close the borders. For those that think that is impossible, we can consult the Chinese. they figured out how to  build a wall 3000 years ago.

Then go after employers. Fine them ruinously for using illegal labor.

Then sit back and wait. The problem will resolve itself, without the unpalatable need to round up and deport millions of illegals. They will leave when the jobs go away.

112 Screw amnesty and the burro or coyote upon which it slithered in through the border.  IT IS NOT FAIR TO ANYBODY...Citizens paying the bills, people waiting patiently to legally immigrate, and finally, it is not fair to the illegals because it gives them the mindset that a felony and the felonies that followed the original is to be rewarded. 

113 Let's organize a million whiteblack/yellow man march into Mexico and see how that fucking works out. 

114 Now I love me some "Firefly", but the dumbest thing about the show- half the dialog is in Chinese and yet the cast and extras were mostly white, with a few blacks. What's up with that Joss? --- Good question. You'd think you could pull more Asian extras when you're filming in Los Angeles.

115 I'd put the chance of this passing at 50/50.

Unlike 2007 (the last time it was defeated), there is more bi-partisan support for this bill.

This bill is also going to greatly increase legal immigration, so that 1 million legal immigrants per year could easily go up to 1.5 million or 2 million legal immigrants per year.

Ahhh, good times.

116 When I was a student on an F1 visa, my impression was that I did not qualify for any Federal financial aid. (We did get some scholarships from the school.) So I guess my family were chumps for paying for the college tuition of 4 kids. Although we were in legal status so the free tuition didn't apply to us. (Good thing though is none of us had any student loans to pay off.) Thanks GOP betters for making us look like chumps for obeying the law.

117 let it burn and start drying out the kindling...this leviathan needs wrecked. Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at June 12, 2013 10:43 AM (LRFds) And that's what the answer keeps coming back to.

118 Dammit Kinley. I have to say I agree. Fucking depressing.

119 Give them green cards, let them stay, but treat them like current "legal" aliens (like my Mom from England). They can work, pay taxes, etc... But they can never vote. I think it's a good solution. Posted by: spypeach at June 12, 2013 10:49 AM (0n1+D) Then you better have a federal voter ID law. I'm also sure the construction workers replaced by illegals may disagree with you.

120 He has been signaling this for a while. Watch Rand vote for amnesty. He will.

121 Posted by: soothsayer at June 12, 2013 10:48 AM (xVKk3)

What can I say, credit where credit is due.

122 98 Alberto in Baton Rogue,

One of the keys is we have to start breeding more amigo...

Chinga el Puta and all that....

I'll either be in the ArkLaTex, Ohio, or Albewrta by the end of the decade mi compadre

123 I would agree right now togivethe illegals here legal statusbut notthe ability to be acitizen ever.They should never be rewarded for their illegal actions and be given the right to vote and participate in thepolitical system. If they want to do that they need to get their ass back to Mexico or wherever they came from and apply like everyone else. With legal status though they can remain here and their children can become citizens via birth in the country. Posted by: polynikes at June 12, 2013 10:45 AM (m2CN7) I am willing to throw them out on their asses and watch you cry as it happens. You are a fool to think you can drop your pants and believe the promise of "just the tip".

124 Caffeine is a helluva drug. 150 milligrams and I'm a different man.

125 Now I love me some "Firefly", but the dumbest thing about the show- half the dialog is in Chinese and yet the cast and extras were mostly white, with a few blacks. What's up with that Joss? The real reason? So they could curse on national TV (yes, really). All that Chinese is swearing. The "eh, I'd probably better have a rationale for that" reason was something along the lines of language migration hand-waving. The Chinese didn't take over earth, but (much like English starting in the 1800s or so) their language did. But it was really so they could really cuss on the show.

126 #113  Repeat:  Let's organize a million white-black-brown-yellow-red man march into Mexico, strung out across the border, and see how fucking far we get. 

127 we had a TEA Party, but after a flurry of rallys and cookouts they have largely gone silent Posted by: Jones in CO at June 12, 2013 10:49 AM (8sCoq) That's a shame. Pity that.

128 I have an acquaintance who is from a SE Asian country.  She has a 4 year degree from a good US school (paid for by her church, not the taxpayers), and a good job.  Her work visa is about to expire and she is going home.  The thought of staying illegally has never crossed her mind.

We're kicking college educated professionals *out* of the country while we talking about legalizing low skilled laborers.  What the fuck?

129 My Spanish name will be, El Piissedofeo Whiteyo Mano

130 I'm also sure the construction workers replaced by illegals may disagree with you. --- Are the affected people generally open-shop workers or union workers? I'm taking a wild guess that many are union workers who no longer get as much work because the unions priced them out of the market and are too much a pain in the ass for employers to deal with.

131 I wonder if the Left can muster any corresponding sympathy for undocumented Tea Party groups operating without 503(c) status.

132

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at June 12, 2013 10:49 AM (xFHl0)

 

*resounding, though hopelessly depressed, applause*

133 would but I haven't lived in Cali in 23 years. I'm a Texan now... oh wait... Posted by: Darth Randalltinez FIFY

134 30If you want to be literal, we are all criminals, as we commit felonies about 2 times a day.

You might say illegal immigration is a worse crime than our daily felonies(probably right), but simply equating illegally going from one country to another is the same as bank robbery is kinda stupid.

Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at June 12, 2013 10:30 AM (X4HxX)

You're right, bank robbery is a one time event.

135 Let them have theoir own states.  Then, when I take over, I will declare them enemy territories and drive the motherfuckers back to their homeland.  "Remember the Alamo" 

136 Otherwise, national fucking suicide. In one fell swoop. I'm sure John McCain will see to this right away. Fucking treasonous traitors all. Posted by: Fourth Virginia at June 12, 2013 10:43 AM (wbmaj) We are long down the path of national suicide. I think the biggest gulp of poison we have so far administered was the Amendment that allowed non-taxpayers to vote. That's where the Democrats discovered they could bribe non-taxpayers with government money to keep themselves in power.

137

I haven't heard many pundits etc. talk much about one of the most immediate and biggest impact of amnesty. Unemployment. Specifically lower skilled positions. It will hurt younger folks and frankly other legal immigrants. What will the labor market rate be for those with an amnesty card? Companies that perhaps would hire a younger person or a legal immigrant can now hire an amnesty worker for probably less even. Think the unemployment rate will be helped by this? Think again. Through the flaming turd that is O-care on top of it and get ready for depression v 2.1.

138 If the statists wanted border security we would have it right now. They do not need new laws to do so. It's all a lie and they know it. That includes Rand Paul.

139 oh great, now I have to google Bud Philbot

140 The illegals don't give a shit about citizenship status. They just want legal status. The citizenship thing is a smokescreen.

Posted by: @JohnTant at June 12, 2013 10:49 AM (eytER)

 

Then it would not be too hard to have them push the Democrats to agree to this.  That would be a good thing. 

141 If you're not going to enforce the laws, how exactly are new laws supposed to work?

142 #30  Illegals commit a crime every day they are here. 

143 139 soothsayer,

you'll thank me in the end

144 Are the affected people generally open-shop workers or union workers? I'm taking a wild guess that many are union workers who no longer get as much work because the unions priced them out of the market and are too much a pain in the ass for employers to deal with. Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 12, 2013 10:53 AM (JGSJZ) I'm in a right to work state watching six houses, 300K plus being built in my neighborhood. Saw my first white face in two months today, an electrician.

145 Notice how they stopped doing the rallies with Mexican flags waving about?
-------
They'll be back out along with the Central American flags.later this year when Obama signs the amnesty bill. I like the Salvadoran flag. Similar to Honduras but with more character. Plus it does not have those nasty firearms that the Guatemalan flag has.

146 Whedon wanted Americans to watch is what happened -- and they won't if the cast is mostly asian. How many successful shows in the history of US TV have had an asian lead?

147

The hardcore group here is running out of conservatives/libertarians.  Ted Cruz is going to come out for some form of "amnesty" in the next few days, then you won't have anyone left.

 

People are pouring over the border, everyone who comes can get every social benefit known to man and there is no mechanism to recoup any of the money it takes to support them.  The system is broken. 

 

Just about anything will be better than the status quo, so you might want to concentrate on making this bill better than beating your heads against the wall opposing it.

148 Then you better have a federal voter ID law. I'm also sure the construction workers replaced by illegals may disagree with you. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 12, 2013 10:51 AM True, I was sorta being sarcastic, because we know that will never happen. But I think Dems, would vote no on such a bill anyway, because as we all know they really could care less about the actual people involved here, just their votes. Living in Maryland I see nothing but amigos doing all the construction work around me already. Street work, cable installation. lawn work. etc.. I often wonder why that doesn't cause more of an uproar from those that are not amigos looking for such work.

149 One of the reasons we can't fix this problem is that we have politicians who will pander to illegals in order to get votes.  Any politician opposing them is automatically painted as a racist.  I may be a simpleton but  running on a platform that encourages  rewarding lawbreakers   just shouldn't be allowed.

150 http://www.paul.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=848 The whole text.

151 Is LaQuisha Largess doing a parody of a troll or is this person really that bad of a repetitive troll?

152

Why don't we just put green cards on Ebay and sell them to the highest bidder?

And use that money to build a border defense?

153 147 Jwest,

fuck you....

that is all

154 137 I haven't heard many pundits etc. talk much about one of the most immediate and biggest impact of amnesty. Unemployment. Specifically lower skilled positions. It will hurt younger folks and frankly other legal immigrants. What will the labor market rate be for those with an amnesty card? Companies that perhaps would hire a younger person or a legal immigrant can now hire an amnesty worker for probably less even. Think the unemployment rate will be helped by this? Think again. Through the flaming turd that is O-care on top of it and get ready for depression v 2.1. --- I'm not sure Obama cares, as making more people unemployable means that they are permanently on the government tit and will vote for whoever gives them their bennies. Christ, the unemployment level of young black males is 20%+ right now, as compared with 8% for the general population, in part due to the minimum wage and required ObamaCare benefits pricing them out of the market. It'll spike even more if more immigrants show up.

155 Caffeine is a helluva drug. 150 milligrams and I'm a different man. Posted by: soothsayer ----------------- ..and he wants some too!

156 Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at June 12, 2013 10:55 AM (7mQyC) I thought parody.

157 Posted by: jwest at June 12, 2013 10:55 AM (u2a4R) Well, Rand is at least being open about what he wants. If he votes for the security-less Go8 as is, even I as a libertarian will be dismayed. He claims to want security, just like Rubio claimed before he backtracked.

158 dammit

159 #136  So true.  The funny thing is, they were scheming white politicans like Lyndon Johnson.  Their power grab will be fleeting.  In the end, they get kicked to the curb by the new racial majority and are left in the dustbin of history.  I hope Lyndon Johnson burns in eternal agony. 

160 One of the reasons we can't fix this problem is that
------

...the American people no longer care.

161

Legalization before reforming our current immigration system and border security is the immoral path.

---

And what does it say about our 'lawgivers' that they can flout the law in this way? People who do not repsect the law should not be making the law.

162 --watching six houses, 300K plus being built in my neighborhood. Saw my first white face in two months today Well, there goes the neighborhood.

163 >>>We're kicking college educated professionals *out* of the country while we talking about legalizing low skilled laborers. What the fuck?

Posted by: DanInMN at June 12, 2013 10:52 AM (XqeyF)

***

That was precisely what Ted Kennedy and his traitorous party intended when they passed the Immigration reform Act of 1965. Population replacement. Democrats are anti-American criminals.

164 Why don't we just put green cards on Ebay and sell them to the highest bidder? And use that money to build a border defense? Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at June 12, 2013 10:56 AM (SO2Q That's a much better system than we have now. We could boost border defense and also get more people to help speed up the immigration process.

165 We're kicking college educated professionals *out* of the country while we talking about legalizing low skilled laborers. What the fuck? Posted by: DanInMN at June 12, 2013 10:52 AM (XqeyF) Uneducated "peasants" are more easily indoctrinated and controlled. The Organized Left found this out after it hollow out public education.

166 But what will the Blacks do with all the Latinos taking jobs? answer me that..

167 btw, we're on Day 7 of 'news' about Michael Jackson's teen daughter OD'ing on Midol and Cocoa Puffs

168 The only Americans that stand to gain with Amnesty are the pols that equate it with votes.

This is actually the last thing America needs right now with high unemployment, higher debt, and hopelessly unfunded entitlement liabilities.

This is no different than Obamacare........
rammed thru against the will of the unrepresented majority of CITIZENS by corrupt, traitorous liars.

169 My organization, La Blanco Raza, has been deemed an enemy of the state by that foul bull dyke Janet Napolitano.   

170 167 soothsayer,

well it is more important than the death of the Republic

171 One of the benefits that we would derive from deporting illegals would be that I may see that rare specimen,  the young white or black kid that knew how to install tile, carpet or hardwood floors  instead of wanting to work in the air conditioned mall. 

172 As always, jwest with the ever helpful commentary calling the rest of us neanderthals while supplying absolutely no substantive solutions of his own. You say anything would be better than the status quo, how about actually providing some specific ideas about how to improve the system?

173 btw, we're on Day 7 of 'news' about Michael Jackson's teen daughter OD'ing on Midol and Cocoa Puffs


You can do that?

174 Paul's speech is just so many weasel words. This worker visa thing is for corporate interests -- who want cheap labor. Screw him. When I worked factory, the company knew they were hiring illegals; they didn't care -- loved it even (because they felt they could pay the minimum on their pay scale and get more work out of them). The illegals in question where filling out tax forms so they had no deductions, could apply for aid, and they were using stolen SS#s. A couple of them even cheerfully suggested the rest of us try this (on a human level they were ok chaps, they weren't jerks or anything to work with, but they break the law left and right). The company knew this, and didn't care -- cheap and most of all uncomplaining about safety and biohazard violations labor. The illegals walked out in mass one day; two weeks later the place got broken into, damaged badly in the break in, robbed blind. The company just filed insurance...and the rest of us got told that there went our performance bonus for the year because sadly this cut into our profit margin. I might add that a lot of the drug and theft related crime in my town has illegals as the perps -- not all, but a fairly good percentage. They are hardly ever caught -- but this means I not only have to deal with higher crime rates, but more hassle from the cops because "we're trying to get tough on crime around here". And that's my story of these poor, misunderstood people who are just confused about the path to citizenship or something. And I do not live in an area that receives a huge amount of illegals -- just some, so the magnitude of problems must be much worse in other places that receive many. This is just a stating of the facts; it is not racism or lack of charity (many of the citizens and legal immigrants in my area are quite poor -- they cannot afford what jobs there are to have a larger pool of workers who will be more attractive because they are 'off the books' to some extent, nor can they afford to be stolen from; many of the citizens and legal immigrants in my area are not white) -- those arguments of racism and lack of charity are bogus; where is the charity for the legal and the citizen there? Screw the Republicans -- I know what you are. You're no better than Democrats. Neither will ever get a vote from me again.

175 166 But what will the Blacks do with all the Latinos taking jobs? answer me that.. Posted by: Riddler at June 12, 2013 10:58 AM (3GuQx) Blame the Republicans. C'mon, that was too easy.

176

Well said, Drew.

 

This seems like the most basic, commonsense logic - almost unarguable from a rational point of view. And other points could be added. Read Thomas Sowell's column either today or yesterday about the economics of immigration and ask yourself where the "compassion" and morality is.

 

I understand why La Raza and the Democrats could care less about these arguments. Absolutely nothing could ever change their opinions. But what is unforgivable and what draws a line in the sand for me, personally, is when a purported conservative or Republican fails to grasp or respond these points.

 

Rubio is dead to me, as are any other politicians who cave on this. I will throw away a vote or stay home (same thing) if our choice is someone who supports the current nonsense going through the sausage factory.

177 Whedon wanted Americans to watch is what happened -- and they won't if the cast is mostly asian.

How many successful shows in the history of US TV have had an asian lead?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 12, 2013 10:55 AM (ZPrif)

 

Don't get me started on that.  It pisses me off no end that Asians   have been essentially ignored, except as convenient scripted stereotypes, for decades.

 

But I don't think Joss needed to have a cast of MOSTLY Asians.   But if the implication is that Chinese culture had    permeated    the global system so deeply that otherwise    unpronounceable    curse words had become commonplace, then it only makes sense to have at least ONE character who    happens to be Asian.   We had two black characters (not counting peripherals like Jubal Early), but no Asians or Hispanics.   The latter, whatever.   But the former?   Would have made a lot of sense.

 

Not that I let it affect my enjoyment of the show.   I *heart* "Firefly."

178 btw, we're on Day 7 of 'news' about Michael Jackson's teen daughter OD'ing on Midol and Cocoa Puffs

Posted by: soothsayer at June 12, 2013 10:58 AM .....It's always been my opinion that there's no way that MJ had any actual biological offspring.

179

Posted by: polynikes at June 12, 2013 10:54 AM (m2CN7)

 

You misunderstand, I think. 

 

This whole thing about illegals having to "go to the end of the line" for citizenship, before or after border security, is all smoke and mirrors.  Because they are here *now.*  The second after that bill is signed they will have legal status.  There is no "line" they care about, because the status will already have been granted for them.  They aren't going to get kicked out while they are getting their supposed background checks or calculating their back taxes, which is 90% of the issue here.  The requirements will be softened or eliminated in the next bill or simply ignored (after all, how do you prove your back-tax liability if you've been receiving cash payments with no bank account for 10 years...?). 

 

Repeat - legal status is what this bill is granting, immediately, and it's all the illegals care about.  Adding "citizenship" language to the bill is a meaningless trope to get Republicans to sign on to it while pretending to be tough about solving the problem.  In reality, it's giving the illegals everything they want with zero requirements from them in return.

180 I'm telling you, it's not amnesty. It's a tax.

181 If you want to be literal, we are all criminals, as we commit felonies about 2 times a day. I hear this all the time. I'd love to know what felonies I commit. Because by my count, I'm slacking. I haven't killed anyone in a long while.

182 The illegals don't give a shit about citizenship status. They just want legal status. The citizenship thing is a smokescreen. Posted by: @JohnTant at June 12, 2013 10:49 AM (eytER) Then it would not be too hard to have them push the Democrats to agree to this. That would be a good thing. Posted by: polynikes at June 12, 2013 10:54 AM (m2CN7) OMG, you are a fully confused GOP drone. Once illegals are granted any degree of legal status they will eventually get full status. One sob story after another will be used to do that. Those stories will be parallel to the ones used now. Wake the fuck up.

183 You can do that? Posted by: EC at June 12, 2013 10:58 AM (GQ8sn) 'Cuckoo' is a pre-requisite.

184 166 But what will the Blacks do with all the Latinos taking jobs? answer me that..

Posted by: Riddler at June 12, 2013 10:58 AM (3GuQx)

Blame the Republicans.

C'mon, that was too easy.

Posted by: RWC at June 12, 2013 10:59 AM .................Ding, Ding, Ding,Tell him what he's won Bob.

185 The light still didn't go on, did it?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 12, 2013 10:47 AM (/PCJa)

--

No, but I got another "I can't wait until you get sent to the camps" comment.

186 Southerners at least fought and died for what they thought was right.  Us?  Take it up the ass and like it. 

187 Why don't we just put green cards on Ebay and sell them to the highest bidder? ----Actually you can buy a lot of forged documents on the hidden web (or whatever they call it). Drivers license, insurance cards, BC, diplomas, what have you. And you can use bitcoins to pay for it. Along with all of your heroin needs. I haven't tried it but have seen it.

188 The future of America is Brazil with an asian over-class.

189
...the American people no longer care.

Posted by: RioBravo at June 12, 2013 10:57 AM (eEfYn)

And that... sums up everything right there. 

The American people do. not. care. 

If I was a drinking man I'd be sauced right now.  Instead, I will go about my workday, and do even more praying than usual, because the burning times are coming.  It is unavoidable, and it is going to be worse than any of us can imagine.

190 185 Vashta Narada,

offer to take the fucker to the range and show him your camp prevention skills

191 The important thing is that the politicians, the lawyers, and the bureaucrats get greased. The rest Get The Hose. And thus the 'greater good' is done 'for the children.'

192

"If you like your illegal landscapers, you can keep your illegal landscapers."  Sincerely, Barry Sotero

193 When the illegal Mexicans took their jobs, the blacks went on welfare and disability and blamed evil white Republicans.

194 Why are people still voting for the GOP? Hell, with friends like these, who needs enemies...

...the biggest traitors are not the Dems (we all knew going in how they were going to vote), but the GOP. The GOP plays tough on immigration, but they never deliver.

195 Millions of suddenly "Legal" cheap labor = Obamacare = unemployment that is going to make todays high numbers seem like a pipedream. We will look back and go, man. Remember when our u6 unemployment was an awesome 16%. Those were the good ol' days.

196 Posted by: Paul Zummo at June 12, 2013 10:58 AM (Ud5vq) My plan: 1)Security first. No mass deportations, but step up deportations of violent/career criminals. 2)Once border is secure(not sure of metric though), start temp visa program for all still here. If you're a violent/career criminal, you're deported. Anyone who doesn't sign up for visa gets deported as well. Expand visa program for high-tech laborers as well. We're running off to many high-tech works as it is. 3) No green cards, unless you first move home, and apply from home.

197 Hollow=hollowed. I'm having trouble typing past tense forms lately.

198 Absolutely true story, my hair stylist's husband, a machinist was laid off and told, "I can hire 4 illegals for what I pay you, pay them in cash, only pay them straight time for overtime, work them without safety standards, so you are gone."

199 And you guys may not be aware of it, but for most people in a lot of countries trying to get visitor's visas to come here even for vacation, it can be a very difficult, terrifying experience. When my brother and I went back home to get our visa stamp for our H1-B visas, there was this woman at the consulate who rejected every single person who was unlucky enough to be assigned to her. There was even one very impressive young woman who (from the conversation) appeared to have her own successful business (which helps establish ties to her home country) and showed a very impressive bank balance. Nope. Rejected out right. The amount of documentation you have to show to get any type of visa is quite extensive. Yet, people who sneaked across the border are going to get amnesty. The rule of law, what's that?

200 >One of the reasons we can't fix this problem is that ------ ...the American people no longer care. many of the American people are in on it- welcome it, in fact this is what happens when love of country dies

201 I'm sure the people on that years long line would love to pay a $1,000 dollars and presto! have legal residency here.

The fast financial path to residency/citizenship in most countries is 2 or 3 orders of magnitude more expensive.

202 The future of America is Brazil with an asian over-class.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 12, 2013 11:01 AM.........Then you can give your Flatbush a Brazilian!

203 Look at the bright side.  If this bill passes we won't have to stand in any lines anymore. I'll be able to go to the movies to see  a new movie and go right to the front of the line as an "undocumented ticket-holder".

204 188 The future of America is Brazil with an asian over-class. Sounds about right. But will we have to learn Portuguese or Korean?

205 Most "progressives" I know consider themselves "citizens of the world".

206 You can do that? When you're a celebrity, anything is possible.

207 The rule of law, what's that? Posted by: chique d'afrique, legal immigrant with Marco Rube-io's finger stuck poking her eye at June 12, 2013 11:03 AM (r+7wo) I was informed yesterday that insisting upon Rule of Law is equivalent to "happily driving the trains to Auschwitz."

208 Then it would not be too hard to have them push the Democrats to agree to this. That would be a good thing. Posted by: polynikes at June 12, 2013 10:54 AM (m2CN7) Some Federal court somewhere would rule that you can't deny them the right to vote. Mark my words.

209 @ 184 maybe w e should consult Maxine Waters before anymore is contemplated.

210 205Most "progressives" I know consider themselves "citizens of the world".

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 12, 2013 11:04 AM (ZPrif)

Yes, and at which point I ask what their passport says.

211 207 BC1981,

unilaterally insisting on the rule of law is more like volunteering for the dunking booth nonstop bud...

the nation is gone....

212 It'll still be English. Spanish will help with the underclass and Mandarin will help with the overclass. But on the whole we'll be an English speaking Brazil.

213 The amount of documentation you have to show to get any type of visa is quite extensive. Yet, people who sneaked across the border are going to get amnesty. The rule of law, what's that? Posted by: chique d'afrique, legal immigrant with Marco Rube-io's finger stuck poking her eye at June 12, 2013 11:03 AM (r+7wo) Why isn't this an argument for visa reform?

214 I was informed yesterday that insisting upon Rule of Law is equivalent to "happily driving the trains to Auschwitz."

Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 12, 2013 11:05 AM (da5Wo)

 

I hope your   fist     left a dent in the forehead of whoever was stupid enough to say such a thing? 

215 What about compassion for our fellow citizens who have their wages lowered or even eliminated by the influx of illegals? What about the morality of what is essentially an ethnic cleansing by the pure European blood Mexican elite in driving the mestizos out of their country?

216 btw, we're on Day 7 of 'news' about Michael Jackson's teen daughter OD'ing on Midol and Cocoa Puffs Posted by: soothsayer at June 12, 2013 10:58 AM (Vhc4u)
She's cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

217 I hope your fist left a dent in the forehead of whoever was stupid enough to say such a thing? Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at June 12, 2013 11:06 AM (4df7R) Not hardly. It was here, in the THC.

218 166 But what will the Blacks do with all the Latinos taking jobs? answer me that.. Posted by: Riddler at June 12, 2013 10:58 AM (3GuQx) You've put your finger on one of the purposes of this amnesty. The Organized Left has one goal: to turn this country into a totalitarian state. When one keeps that in mind, the purpose of almost all the government crimes becomes clear. Here's another clue: mass violence is a plausible excuse for totalitarian measures.

219 Most "progressives" I know consider themselves "citizens of the world".

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 12, 2013 11:04 AM (ZPrif)

 

And I would say to them, "Okay.  Just you go down to Mexico and try living there illegally.   See how much they value your worldly citizenship."

220 I was informed yesterday that insisting upon Rule of Law is equivalent to "happily driving the trains to Auschwitz." Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 12, 2013 11:05 AM (da5Wo) Yeah, seems like an apropos comparison. For a mentally deranged person.

221 Just about anything will be better than the status quo, so you might want to concentrate on making this bill better than beating your heads against the wall opposing it. Posted by: jwest at June 12, 2013 10:55 AM (u2a4R) Lay back and relax? You are outta your mind.

222 Why isn't this an argument for visa reform?

Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at June 12, 2013 11:06 AM (X4HxX)

Because there aren't 10-30 million illegal immigrants here having "visa troubles".

223 Posted by: somebody else, not me at June 12, 2013 11:07 AM (29vnO) The democrats/republicans already accomplished this by minimum wage laws and refusing to enforce border security.

224 We will respond only when we directly feel the hand of an oppressor.  Sad but seemingly so true. 

225 Most "progressives" I know consider themselves "citizens of the world".Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 12, 2013 11:04 AM (ZPrif) Yes, and at which point I ask what their passport says. Beat their ass & mug them & tell them to call the world court.

226 The rich whites and asians who support amnesty for illegal mexicans --- have no loyalty to their poor fellow citizens -- mostly black and poor white -- who are screwed by this. They don't care. They will feel a bit bad about the blacks being hurt and suggest more welfare and "job training". But they really don't give a fuck about the poor whites. In fact, they kinda like that some redneck whites get fucked over. They hate poor white bible-thumping, gun-toting bitter-clingers. And if bringing in 10 million more Mexicans fuck over poor whites -- that's a feature, not a bug.

227 show him your camp prevention skills

Posted by: Esteban10077@sven10077 at June 12, 2013 11:01 AM (LRFds)

-

Given that one of his fellow travelers once reported me to the secret service, I tend to avoid speaking of my skillset or tools.

228 218 Baldilocks,

yup...so the key is once it starts everyone finishes their business quick...

it'll start as Hispanic on black probably...

already happening in Cali

229 Because there aren't 10-30 million illegal immigrants here having "visa troubles". Posted by: Heralder at June 12, 2013 11:08 AM (+xmn4) But they are both people that want to be here. Simply saying the system sucks for legal immigration doesn't conclude that we should reduce the amount of immigration. They're interlocking problems, but they certainly aren't the same.

230 Why isn't this an argument for visa reform? Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at June 12, 2013 11:06 AM (X4HxX) I'm not sure most people would object to sensible (ugh, libs have turned that word into crap) visa reform if it weren't for the focus being on rewarding illegals. But obviously, law-abiding people don't matter to our betters in the govt and media.

231 We should put a reciprocity amendment into the amnesty bill. Whatever the laws of your home country concerning border security and foreign nationals owning property and being able to vote are, you will be held to.

232 What these sons-of-bitches should be doing is sending ICE buses to the entrance of every ER in San Diego and enforcing the damn laws we have in place.

233

#221  jwest sounds like a rapist:  J"ust take, it bitch, lean back and enjoy it--or you're really going to get hurt." 

234 btw, we're on Day 7 of 'news' about Michael Jackson's teen daughter OD'ing on Midol and Cocoa Puffs

You can do that?

Posted by: EC at June 12, 2013 10:58 AM (GQ8sn)

Midol is mostly acetaminophen and you can make yourself pretty sick with it.  She is mostly a little attention grabbing narcissist, she got a lot of attention when Mikey died and she liked it.  She has no other claim to fame than acting out.  She is Lindsey Lohan 2.0, Paris Hilton 8.8, et al.

235 This is yet another thing forced on us by the Tyranny of Nice. It's the only moral authority remaining. It wouldn't be nice to deport all those hard-working folks who have so little here and came so far from a country with even less. Struggling with an unfamiliar tongue and living in the gloomy shadows, with their innocent children. You want to be nice, don't you?

236 I'm not sure most people would object to sensible (ugh, libs have turned that word into crap) visa reform if it weren't for the focus being on rewarding illegals. But obviously, law-abiding people don't matter to our betters in the govt and media. Posted by: chique d'afrique, legal immigrant with Marco Rube-io's finger stuck poking her eye at June 12, 2013 11:10 AM (r+7wo) No argument here. Our Betters certainly don't want illegal immigration fixed.

237  Absolutely true story, my hair stylist's husband, a machinist was laid off and told, "I can hire 4 illegals for what I pay you, pay them in cash, only pay them straight time for overtime, work them without safety standards, so you are gone."

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes C'est Magnifique at June 12, 2013 11:03 AM (kXoT0)

 

 

Guess who would of called INS before I got 10 feet off the premises.  This is why there needs to be stiff penalties for employers who do this.

 

238 Not hardly. It was here, in the THC.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 12, 2013 11:07 AM (da5Wo)

 

 

Then I hope your eFist left and eDent in their eForehead.  

 

Fucking drones.   They don't know their ass from their ass.

239 If this sh*t sandwich passes the House, and I'd give odds that it will, then watch '14 be an epic loss of the Republicans.  Ushering in again, Nancy Pelosi and a Democrat vermin-led super majority.  Of course, after amnesty, it won't matter anyway as we'll be well and truly f*cked.  Bye bye guns, heeeeelllloooo carbon credits, soaring taxes and regulations and loss of just about every liberty we have left.

240 Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 12, 2013 11:09 AM (ZPrif) See, this is what the "elites" are accomplishing, making us view each other as racial/ethnic groups because they started it. Even though there are illegal immigrants of all nationalities, they only talk about Hispanics. This stuff is really insidious.

241 But they are both people that want to be here. Simply saying the system sucks for legal immigration doesn't conclude that we should reduce the amount of immigration.

They're interlocking problems, but they certainly aren't the same.

Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at June 12, 2013 11:10 AM (X4HxX)

If visas were easier to get do you think that the millions of illegals we had here would instead have come on a visa and then left?  I don't.

242 >One of the reasons we can't fix this problem is that ----- What problem? According to the news, the problem seems to be that some teabaggers are blaspheming the messiah.

243 When I was twenty eight, I never would have guessed that by the time that I reached fifty eight, I'd be relieved that I was fifty eight, and not twenty fucking eight.

But there it is.

RIP America.
Rule of Law is just an old rumor.

I don't what you'd call this place now, but it wouldn't contain any high minded or uplifting words.

244 240 Chicque D'Afrique,

Well 95.67% or so bloc voting is getting me past caring "who started it"....

fuck the left

245

Guess who would of called INS before I got 10 feet off the premises. This is why there needs to be stiff penalties for employers who do this.

 

------------

 

That's assuming INS would do anything about it.

 

All the penalties in the world don't matter if you don't enforce them.

246 If visas were easier to get do you think that the millions of illegals we had here would instead have come on a visa and then left? I don't. Posted by: Heralder at June 12, 2013 11:14 AM (+xmn4) Well again, this is a problem of security. People who enjoy it here don't want to leave. High-tech visa holder all the way down to dude who can't speak English. It's human nature. Why can't we step up visa program AND enforcement at the same time?

247 then watch '14 be an epic loss of the Republicans. Ushering in again, Nancy Pelosi and a Democrat vermin-led super majority. Doubtless John Boehner will win the post of Minority Leader so he can inform Republicans that he's one half of one third of nothing.

248 I speak Spanish. And occasionally would go to lunches where people would meet to practice their Spanish. It was in a college town. The room was filled with mostly academics, grad students, and bored wives of the professor-class. Also some illegal Mexicans. They were proudly, openly illegal. I remember the topic of amnesty came up. And this one guy spoke up. He was white. But he was unlike the crisp and clean other whites. He had bad teeth. Bit haggard looking. He worked in the local car repair show. Mostly repaired brakes of the professor-class cars. He pointed out that for guys like him and his family all the illegals were really pushing down their wages. One of the reasons he learned Spanish was because his shop hired so many illegals. And they'd work for half the money a native white would. All the upper-class white women ripped into him. With glee. Called him a racist. Venom in their eyes. He left in a fluster. All these rich white women enjoyed spitting on this poor white working class guy. They spend more on their teeth in a year than he has in a lifetime. Huge disparities in class and wealth -- and they had zero sympathy for this guy. None. They wanted him to suffer. They felt he deserved it for being "racist".

249

"let it burn and start drying out the kindling"

 

That's going to be tough when we're all ankle deep in blood.  It's where  this insanity  ultimately ends and nobody gives enough of a shit to do anything  to prevent it.  May God have mercy on us all.

250 228 218 Baldilocks, yup...so the key is once it starts everyone finishes their business quick... it'll start as Hispanic on black probably... already happening in Cali Posted by: Esteban10077@sven10077 at June 12, 2013 11:09 AM (LRFds) That's long been happening, though my rather middle class black-Hispanic neighborhood is pretty quiet. The powers that be don't give a shit about this. Mostly it's black on white. When a group of white people retaliate, that's when the government will swing into action.

251 The current system can't handle the approximately 1 million legal immigrants per year in an efficient manner. _________________________ Speaking of an overloaded system, remember when Barry signed his DREAM Act by executive order, and said that illegal aliens brought here as kids would apply for amnesty, prove they had a clean record by going through a background check, etc.? Well, guess what? The "system" Barry set up for the DREAMers was overwhelmed with applications, so they just rubber-stamped them. It's reported that more than 99.5% of submitted applications have already been approved. What kind of "background" checks do you think occurred on all those applications? The only thing that was checked was whether there was enough ink in the stamp pad to stamp "approved" on amnesty applications from criminals, gang bangers, and many other undesireables. It's all a scam, just like the Rubio amnesty will be -- except that the Rubio amnesty will be a scam on steroids.

252 Why can't we step up visa program AND enforcement at the same time?

Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at June 12, 2013 11:16 AM (X4HxX)

No reason we can't, theorectically.

253 Guess who would of called INS before I got 10 feet off the premises. This is why there needs to be stiff penalties for employers who do this.

Posted by: polynikes at June 12, 2013 11:12 AM (m2CN7)

He was shortly diagnosed with lung cancer and has been too busy fighting that.  I urged her to have him report them, but, they are Rhema Bible College Christians who take turning the other cheek very seriously.  To understand Tulsa, you have to understand the impact that Rhema has on the city's culture and demographics.  People come here to go to Rhema and are still here decades after they were supposed to leave to spread the gospel.  They stay because Rhema has figured out that offering those folks continuing Bible studies is very lucrative.  http://www.rhema.org/  The elder Mrs. Haggin (widow of the founder, Pastor Haggin) gets her hair done by another Rhema graduate at the same salon...she collects pink diamonds... very large pink diamonds.  HInt: Pink diamonds are more expensive than clear diamonds.

254 No reason we can't, theorectically. Posted by: Heralder at June 12, 2013 11:18 AM (+xmn4) Yeah. The practical answer is: Because liberals don't want to fix illegal immigration and won't allow security. That's why I think it would be advantageous to point this out early and often in any deal being struck.

255 248 flatbush joe,

the donks can't please everyone...and we need to weaponize our economically challenged too....

time to outfreeshit the left...

256 249 Jaws,

if the name of the game is poker time spent playing blackjack at the table is a waste....

The Hill GOP just blew my heart out...

I'm done playing their game

257 The senators of the empire have already made their decision, everything they do now is simply arraigning the furniture. Paul opines on the abstract (nominally) morality of the cause yet ignores the obvious consequences of the supposed morality play. Here is what Rand Paul believes - Paul thinks that the empire will be improved by allowing the Goths and Vandals into Rome. The sheer hubris of it (couched in morality - that which is immoral) is breathtaking.

258 I was out shopping last week and overheard a conversation between two young women with accents (origin unknown).

"When are they going to pass the bill? Come one, we've been waiting..." They were all pissed off. Like, hey, I've been here a couple of years and when are these assholes gonna give me what I want?

Future members of the America-hating FSA.

259

This issue of citizenship was a huge political hot potato in the Roman Republic too.  Like today, it turns out that all the demagoguery and all the popular politicos of the day were, in the end, about buying votes with public money and staying in office.

 

I'll happily accept their proposed amnesty plan or whatever IF, first, we agree that no government benefits get paid to anyone who isn't a citizen and hasn't paid taxes for some stipulated period of time, like three years or so.

 

Do that, Democrat assholes, and you have my support for amnesty.  Fail to do that, Mr. Rubio, and all your moralizing is just bullshit.  It isn't about the moral highground.  Like in Rome, its all about the money.  You are buying votes with tax dollars, plain and fucking simple.

260

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes C'est Magnifique at June 12, 2013 11:19 AM (kXoT0)

 

Can't say that Jesus didn't warn us.  Guess they didn't teach that part of the scriptures at the Bible college.

261

"When I was twenty eight, I never would have guessed that by the time that I reached fifty eight, I'd be relieved that I was fifty eight, and not twenty fucking eight."

 

ontherocks, same age bracket as you. Seems totally counter-intuitive, but I have this same feeling from time to time. Not that I want to go anytime soon, but the way it's headed now, I cannot even conceive of what things will be like in another 30  to 40 years.

262 I do not blame illegal aliens for this mess.  I blame us.

If I was dirt poor with no skills to offer except manual labor and I lived in the third world--China, Mexico, Pakistan, India--and I knew there was some place infinitely better for me and my family and all I had to do was sneak over some silly border and live in the shadows to get there, I would do it.

America is too good, too kind, too compassionate, and yet, at the same time too greedy.  We let the third world poor come here to be our lowest level working class group and yes, we exploited them.  This worked when there were not 500 social programs that they could access without an ID, without learning English, and without working and paying for it--they were motivated to get out of poverty.  Now, they just come and work long enough to join the FSA.

263 Can't say that Jesus didn't warn us. Guess they didn't teach that part of the scriptures at the Bible college.

Posted by: polynikes at June 12, 2013 11:32 AM (m2CN7)

They did.  But, we as a country do not insist that what is Ceasar's be rendered.  We are busy giving our country away with both hands.

264 Can you imagine the disgust that the people waiting in line legally feel?  They have been left in the dust by a bunch of craven careerists. I wouldn't blame them for hating us.

MTF, even if they denied benefits in the bill, someone would file suit the next day, with the help of the Dems, to have that declared unconstitutional.

265 My view of amnesty: "Surrender with honor" by our political geniuses. My view of the result: Fort William Henry massacre or Battle of the Teutoburg Forest.

266

More so.....

 

Is it moral, to put MY children at a Disadvantage, so someone elses children can be advantaged?

 

My Lady Friends Son is 18... and just graduated High School... and he can't find a Job in Central California... partly because he does not speak Spanish so none of the fast food places will hire him.

 

Sorry.... but Mazlo's hierarchy of needs DOES come into play.... I'll protect Family... then community.... then others.... and those who come here illegally are not even part of the Community of Americans as far as I'm concerned.

267 >>I cannot even conceive of what things will be like in another 30 to 40 years.
Posted by: RM at June 12, 2013 11:34 AM (/Frlf)



Unfortunately, I can see it quite clearly now, but I won't be looking (or backing) away,
and I suspect there are still millions more with the same mindset.

268 Anyone who tolerates anything less than absolute American sovereignty can't be called anything other than an internationalist, no matter whatever else he professes to be. Which then begs the question: why should Americans then listen to internationalists on anything at all?

269

Posted by: PJ at June 12, 2013 11:41 AM (ZWaLo)

 

Ahhh... but as I understand it part of the bill will open up the floodgate of LEGAL immigration to 'take care of the backlog'...

 

Sooo... not only will we try to absorb the illegals... but they will as much as triple the rate of LEGAL immigration as well. (at least I've seen a couple of reports that its in the bill....).

270

What do we "owe" to the world's people? Or what do we owe to the people of our border nation Mexico? Why do we owe them citizenship? Do we owe them this and do we owe them full rights and full pardon if they break our laws?

Why is the issue always framed within this context, the presumption of OUR debt to THEM? What about what they owe to the country they wish to live in? That is, their debt and obligation to US in exchange for the promise of salvation from a life they have found undesirable or even worse?

271 Why does everyone assume illegals will even take amnesty?  Right now they can get welfare, food stamps, medical care, education, and not pay taxes.  After  amnesty they will be screened more closely and will have to pay taxes.  And since some may have criminal records,other than being here illegally, that could prove to be a problem once they are in the system.  I'd be willing to bet a whole lot won't even opt for the amnesty.

272 Its just an internal NAFTA, only worse. Hear that sucking sound?

273 Take a drive through Los Angeles some day with streets and highways and buildings clogged with people. If people are "in the shadows" I would hate to see what would happen if they came out.

274 People are "in the shadows" because they are breaking the law.  Law-breakers tend to keep a low profile, lest their crimes be discovered.

What's next?  Shall we "humanely" bring the murderers, thieves, and child molesters "out of the shadows," too?

UNTIL the border is securED - an accomplishment, not a "plan," "strategy," or "goal" - there is no point in amnesty, legalization, or citizenship talk.  If this bill is enacted as written, in ten years we will have 20 million more immigrants come in through the family plan and most will be on welfare, SNAP, and ObamaCare.

It's the Dream Act - for a Liberal Welfare State.

275

Posted by: PJ at June 12, 2013 11:41 AM (ZWaLo)

 

You're probably right.  It's just that it pisses me off to see the Democrats cynically buying votes, and the idiot Republicans helping them, and using our money to do it.

276 275

amen.

277 "We as a country didn't perform some bait and switch maneuver where we said, "No, we're just kidding about that pesky legal system we set up. Just hop on over the border however you can and you'll be treated like the suckers who wait at home and play by the rules".

***************************************************************

Oh, but that's EXACTLY what we did by not enforcing the laws on the books and by passing the previous amnesty bills.