July 30, 2013
— Ace This Charles C.W. Cooke piece makes a specific point about this syndrome. First some of the backstory again.
[C]onsider the words of one Michael Shulan, who “really believes” that “the way America will look best, the way we can really do best, is to not be Americans so vigilantly and so vehemently.” Mr. Shulan, who is the creative director of the 9/11 Memorial Museum, also expressed his distaste at what he called the “rah-rah America” instinct.The news that a New York City–based “creative director” is disheartened by muscular American self-assuredness will presumably not come as a hefty surprise to many. Nevertheless, I might venture that if one’s sole job is to memorialize for the nation the revolting attack that unrepentant barbarians perpetrated on the United States on September 11 of 2001, one’s calculations as to what level of patriotism is and isn’t seemly should change a touch.
Elizabeth Greenspan's new book documents the resistance of Shulan to memorialize 9/11 in the 9/11 Memorial Museum. The whole article is worth reading, but here's the part I'd like to noodle on:
“My concern,” Shulan explained, “as it always was, is that we not reduce [9/11] down to something that was too simple, and in its simplicity would actually distort the complexity of the event, the meaning of the event.”The never-ending search for complexity where it neither exists nor belongs is the unlovely signet of the pseudo-intellectual. What, precisely, are America’s flag-waving rubes missing about the events of September 11, 2001? What does the photograph show that “distorts” anything? If Mr. Shulan disagrees with Rudy Giuliani’s admirably Manichean statement that, the attacks of 9/11 being “an attack on the very idea of a free, inclusive, and civil society,” “we are right and they are wrong,” then he should say so. He might tell us also what he conceives to be the apparently unknowable “meaning of the event.” Absent an explanation, we should presume that the curator of the 9/11 Memorial Museum considers that there was a better time for firemen to be “vigilantly and so vehemently American” than the day their city crashed down around them. This is unacceptable.
I do not know the name of this particular rhetorical gambit but it is widely deployed I'm sure it must have one: The gambit of the vague blanket contradiction without -- and this is key -- the forwarding of a concrete positive statement which one is willing to defend as more true than the denied one.
If that's a bit abstract, I just mean this: You've all been in arguments with this type of dishonest "intellectual," the person who believes that argumentation consists of only denying any proposition you make, rarely offering any kind of debatable rationale for the contradiction, and never offering her own competing claim for debate. This sort of interlocutor is simply not playing by any sort of rules of reasoned and fair debate, but is simply being a dishonest juvenile prat.
And if that's still too abstract, well, I just mean this.
The reflexive contradiction is, again, couched in such vague terms that you cannot even intelligently debate the grounds for contradiction -- the tactic is designed to avoid that sort of counter-argument entirely. The entire point of the shabby gambit is to ensure the "battle" can only take place on "your ground," because the enemy never sketches out ground of her own.
The open-ended, undefined contradiction can take many forms, from a simple negation of your proposition without ever offering one's own ("we must not reduce 9/11 of its true, complex meaning" without ever saying what that other meanings one may have in mind), to the sandbagging Death By a Thousand Sneers in the Forms of Questions ("Oh you think that do you?") to the stripped-down, let's-just-stop-pretending-we're-really-having-a-debate-at-all all-purpose universal negation by juvenalia, "LOL." I'm saying "her" here because the most wretched prat I ever encountered deploying this style of "debate" happened to be a woman.
Why is this tactic deployed? In my experience, and according to my speculation, for four reasons, but this is the important one:
To Avoid Confessing the True Belief Held by the Speaker, Which Is Itself Indefensible. If Mr. Shulan would like to put a kind word in for Al Qaeda's psychopathic mass-murder, I'd like to hear it. And I don't mean that saracastically -- I'd like to hear it. I'd like to have an honest discussion, for once, with Shulan and his ilk about precisely what it is they believe, rather than having to forever spar with shadows.
I don't think his beliefs could survive the light of truth. I think the knows that. Perhaps he's too stupid to know it on a conscious level, but somewhere down deep he does seem to have the proper instinct: Don't share this hideous and indefensible belief with anyone except your fellow monsters, in the dark corners where no one else can hear. Just speak very vaguely about what you don't believe; no one can find you out if you're only speaking of things you don't agree with.
Cooke's column ends with some "rah-rah American patriotism" that I myself disagree with. He proclaims that among the nations of the West, the Anglosphere is superior; and among the Anglosphere, the American nation stands out.
I think he's thinking nostalgically. That may have been true six year ago but it is not true today. America truly is now an "ordinary" country, just as Obama always believed. He has transformed his belief into reality.
Because, I don't care if this is New York City or not, if a curator says he refuses to post an iconic picture of three firefighters who chose, of their own free thinking (no one has ever seriously contended this was a Government Propaganda Effort or the like), to memorialize 9/11 on the day of 9/11 itself --
-- if a curator, supposedly interested in presenting the historical record of 9/11, is determined to erase a key part of the historical record from the official account--
--if a curator, whose job it is to present the expression of others, artists, for example, or here, the free spontaneous expression of three firefighters directly involved in the events of 9/11, decides to eradicate their expression in favor of his own preferred narrative --
then you fire him. Done and done. It is that simple. There is no need for caterwauling or crying. We are all adults. Or, rather, some of us are adults, and many of us are elderly teenagers. But in a decent country, there are more adults, and when an incompetent and fool refuses to do the job he was assigned, you fire him.
But of course we can't do that in America today. Members of the New Class are immune from the hazard of firing for cause. Other members of the New Class would complain and say All Sorts of Nasty Things in the Media, and we can't have that. So for some reason we are held hostage to the sophomoric "I have my own ideas, Dad!" tyranny of Elderly Teenagers.
And notice how very differently the New Class treats the picture of the 9/11 firefighters raising the flag as compared to the picture of Johar Tsarnaev that appeared on Rolling Stone. The latter, they claimed, was a part of the real historical record and how dare you object to entering the real historical record into the full evidentiary body of the case. (Nevermind the fact that Rolling Stone played around with coloring and sepia effects to make a casual amateur snapshot appear to be a professional in-studio portrait of a profiled rock star.)
But in this case, the New Class seeks to eradicate the true historical record of that day, and what is the justification? Some mumble-stumble about the "wrong meaning" and such.
I didn't see "the wrong meaning" argument getting much credit as applied to Johar's Star is Born cover treatment. In that case, it was postulated that the wrong meaning didn't even exist, or else concerns abut the wrong meaning, worshipping a terrorist, were dismissed with the sneer of "Why don't you stop being such big Stupid Babies about this you big rightwing Stupid Babies."
One last point: It occurred to me with Tsarnaev, and it now occurs again with this Shulan dreg, that there is a specific illogical logic to how the New Class thinks and how it signals its superiority over the Common Masses it despises so thoroughly.
And this, then, is how one signals one's membership in the bien pensant member of the New Class:
By treating questions of aesthetics as if they were matters of morality, and maters of morality as if they were matters of aesthetics.
To treat morality as a matter of morality, you see, and aesthetics as a matter of aesthetics, well, what can one say. It is so wretchedly common.
No, the bien pensant demonstrates his quality by trivializing the sacred and consecrating the trivial.
And that's how they know that they're so far above you.
LOL.
The Other Reasons for this Particular Style of "Debate:" Originally I included these in the essay, but now I see they are sort of irrelevant to the main point and merely fatten an already bloated essay.
Here then, as an afterthought, as they should have been from the start, the other reasons for the Debate By Simple Contradiction:
1. To created doubt and obscurity about a proposition the gambiter knows is true, but doesn't wish to confess is true. This is how I was first annoyed by the tactic, by someone questioning everything regarding Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky, but careful to only imply Clinton was perfectly faithful to his wife, careful to never explicitly state that he was faithful to his wife, a proposition so absurd it could only be safely hinted at, for to state it forthrightly would be to expose oneself as an idiot.
2. To suggest the speaker has some Deep Thoughts in mind which he'd like to share with you but he's not sure you'd quite understand. Spoiler Alert-- he doesn't. He hasn't done the homework and hasn't really thought very hard about these matters but he wants credit for having done so just the same. And so he'll buy some intellectual cache on the cheap by simply signalling he's a Deep Thinker Who Thinks Deeply About Thoughts.
3. To Create and/or Unify a Political Coalition. This is both putting on airs and also engaging in simple politicking. It is far easier to be against something than to be for something; this is a basic phenomenon that propels all politicking. You, me, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, even Chris Christie, all of us are far more united in what we are against than what we're actually for.
That's no knock on us, exactly; it's just how politics works and always has worked. Barack Obama assembled his coalitions in 2008 and 2012 not by offering up his great ideas and his astonishing record of achievement -- do not make me laugh -- but by saying, again and again, I'm against Bush.
In fact, discussions about what we're actually for will often expose major rifts in a coalition which are generally hidden by the unifying power of being against something. We will all be united in the comments vis-a-vis Barack Obama, but the minute someone starts agitating in favor of Chris Christie or Sarah Palin or Rand Paul, now we're arguing with each other.
What political coalition would Shulan be interested in keeping together? Well, how about the one that keeps his ass from being fired, for starters. And for seconds, appeasing the quite-stupid people who consider themselves bien pensants and always seek to signal their superiority over the Common Masses by reflexively taking a position contrary to the despised untermenschen.
Posted by: Ace at
11:13 AM
| Comments (365)
Post contains 1983 words, total size 12 kb.
Posted by: Truck Monkey at July 30, 2013 11:17 AM (32Ze2)
Posted by: profligatewaste at July 30, 2013 11:17 AM (R3JkO)
Posted by: wheatie at July 30, 2013 11:18 AM (F6vyp)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 30, 2013 11:18 AM (7jWlo)
Posted by: Sheila “voice of reason” Jackson Lee at July 30, 2013 11:18 AM (4eNxd)
Posted by: imp at July 30, 2013 11:19 AM (L9AnB)
Posted by: Anderson Cooper at July 30, 2013 11:19 AM (Pr6hk)
Posted by: angel with a sword at July 30, 2013 11:20 AM (EO34X)
Libs are afraid. Afraid of being killed by... strange foreign people they do not understand.
However, confronting evil is scary. They don't do scary.
So is simply easier to blame "America" where there will be no violent repercussions for their words, rather than "Islam" or "communism" or whatever.
/just like when the guy kicks his dog instead of confronting his boss.
Posted by: shibumi at July 30, 2013 11:20 AM (25HWz)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 30, 2013 11:20 AM (9Xc5j)
Posted by: rickb223 at July 30, 2013 11:20 AM (bpzkI)
but don't you DARE wave the American Flag Xenophobe...
and these fucks are winning....
again "fuck you Joe and Jane College kid that falls for this shit"
Posted by: sven10077 at July 30, 2013 11:21 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: imp at July 30, 2013 11:21 AM (L9AnB)
, gay marriage, no GMO nothing, etc., etc., etc., then yeah, it is time and fair to say, get the f*ck out.Posted by: SFGoth at July 30, 2013 11:21 AM (Y2PXh)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 30, 2013 11:22 AM (9Xc5j)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at July 30, 2013 11:22 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 30, 2013 11:22 AM (8ZskC)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 56% more DOOM! at July 30, 2013 11:22 AM (09o/X)
And yet . . . and yet . . . at the end of the day, he will still have a cush job on my dime.
Man, this society needs come clearing of the dead wood.
xx
It's much easier to accept the situation if you simply live with the premise that approximately 50% of our population (cough liberals) are suffering from an untreatable mental illness.
Posted by: shibumi at July 30, 2013 11:22 AM (25HWz)
Ace,
You used how many thousand words to say "This guy is engaging is dishonest sophistry"
He takes a generally accepted idea: "Don't oversimplify things" and applies it in either/both a) a situation in which it is not actually applicable (i.e. this isn't oversimplified) or b) wrongly.
But it's a generally accepted principle, so people don't know quite what to do with it, because it's usually right (almost always) there's a sort of natural disinclination towards arguing against it.
Thus most interlocutors simply clam up.
The simplest tact is to turn to the moron saying this and go "How is this oversimplified?" And just keep pounding that line of questioning until their nose bleeds (from the brain hurt, not because you're actually pounding them.)
Posted by: tsrblke at July 30, 2013 11:22 AM (GaqMa)
That's a lot of words, Ace, considering it could be condensed down to "He's a self important little douche, his shit's all retarded, and he talks like a fag".
Posted by: Sticky Wicket at July 30, 2013 11:22 AM (qoQi/)
It's a lot like Firefly there champ...
I weep for [i}America that Was[/i] the USSA can go fuck itself.
Posted by: sven10077 at July 30, 2013 11:23 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: Meghan McCain at July 30, 2013 11:23 AM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at July 30, 2013 11:23 AM (ZPrif)
Unabashed Patriotism...
So this is what sticks in their craws?
This is what triggers their gag reflexes?
Good to know.
We can use this.
Posted by: wheatie at July 30, 2013 11:23 AM (F6vyp)
i find it disturbing that the 9/11 Memorial Museum would have a position titled "creative director"
Posted by: kj at July 30, 2013 11:24 AM (kw7uo)
A generation has been raised in the belief that America is NOT special, and it is setting out to prove it by taking control of certain aspects of American society, and behaving attrociously.
Self-fulfilling prophecy.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 30, 2013 11:24 AM (TOk1P)
Yesterday, the office told me that my Italian prisoners didn't have enough latrines. They didn't know what a latrine was till I showed them.
Plumbing, Electricity, unspoiled Food. Progress to us, inhumane raising of the bar to our leftist 'friends'
Posted by: George S. Patton at July 30, 2013 11:24 AM (Pr6hk)
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 30, 2013 11:25 AM (8ZskC)
Posted by: dfbaskwill at July 30, 2013 11:25 AM (71LDo)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at July 30, 2013 11:26 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: rickb223 at July 30, 2013 11:26 AM (bpzkI)
Posted by: lizardbrain at July 30, 2013 11:26 AM (EXDjY)
Posted by: NYC Parent at July 30, 2013 11:26 AM (HEo6y)
Posted by: joncelli at July 30, 2013 11:26 AM (RD7QR)
As an aside, there are plenty of us that were actually at the WTC that day. We don't need no freakin curator to give us his philosophical perspective.
You want to create the right environment assclown? Do it in the words and memories of survivors.
Posted by: Marcus at July 30, 2013 11:27 AM (GGCsk)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at July 30, 2013 11:27 AM (klTyW)
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 30, 2013 11:28 AM (8ZskC)
Posted by: MegaIndependento at July 30, 2013 03:24 PM (uvaJ1
Fucking postmodernism and it's fucking relativism (not you MI, the fucks you're describing.)
The Only moral complexity that day was "exactly how hard do we shove the boot up the asses of anyone who helped them do this."
You hate our opulence, fine, you're entitled to your opinion and your shitty sand dunes and even shittier caves (as applicable). You don't get to harm a single person.
Posted by: tsrblke at July 30, 2013 11:28 AM (GaqMa)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 30, 2013 11:28 AM (7jWlo)
17 I still almost tear up every time I salute the flag in Uniform. And I am not kidding
Bless you, Nevergiveup.
I get choked up for similar things, too.
Posted by: wheatie at July 30, 2013 11:29 AM (F6vyp)
Posted by: Charlie Gibson at July 30, 2013 11:29 AM (Pr6hk)
Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at July 30, 2013 11:29 AM (WD0KF)
Posted by: fluffy at July 30, 2013 11:29 AM (czQU/)
Posted by: Navycopjoe bids aloha to Flossie at July 30, 2013 11:29 AM (7D6bD)
If America was exceptional six years ago could it be exceptional again within a decade?
Posted by: SpongeBob ReaverSaget at July 30, 2013 11:30 AM (epxV4)
very true. I see no "complexity" in this notion, nor any originality. It's the same stupid repetitive shit they say every day.
Posted by: ace at July 30, 2013 11:30 AM (/IWYB)
Thing of beauty. *sniff*
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 30, 2013 11:30 AM (lVPtV)
That presumes we see them as elites and somehow better.
They're not and it's actually the converse. They are attempting to steal the civil society by placing themselves in influential positions.
The only thing that will accomplish in the end is a destruction of their philosophical viewpoint as it crashes and burns from its own inherent stupidity. .
Posted by: Marcus at July 30, 2013 11:30 AM (GGCsk)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at July 30, 2013 11:30 AM (ZPrif)
I never hinted at such a thing. I think America is done.
I think this is now an entirely transactional relationship now.
Posted by: ace at July 30, 2013 11:30 AM (/IWYB)
Posted by: phreshone at July 30, 2013 11:31 AM (Pr6hk)
Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at July 30, 2013 11:31 AM (9Bdcz)
Posted by: I.I. at July 30, 2013 11:31 AM (MhA4j)
Posted by: jwb7605 [i](L.I.B.)[/i][/u][/b] at July 30, 2013 11:31 AM (Qxe/p)
I'd just call him a douchebag and hope he gets pushed in front of a train.
Posted by: Jaws at July 30, 2013 11:31 AM (4I3Uo)
Posted by: Jeanne of the North at July 30, 2013 11:32 AM (GdalM)
And I worked downtown, so you have no idea what it was like going to work each day.
Posted by: Marcus at July 30, 2013 11:32 AM (GGCsk)
Posted by: HeideRadieschen at July 30, 2013 11:32 AM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 30, 2013 11:32 AM (5YUSx)
Done and done.
Posted by: Fritz at July 30, 2013 11:32 AM (bWoh5)
Or another member of the Holy Order of Politics.
The call for 'complexity' and 'nuance' are calls for indiscriminateness. It's a verbal tic of the Left who want nothing more than to turn everything into a mush of emotions and faith in the collective over reason, facts, and the nature of humanity.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at July 30, 2013 11:32 AM (yPX0e)
Posted by: oeJay44incday at July 30, 2013 11:33 AM (QxSug)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at July 30, 2013 11:33 AM (cRPJq)
Posted by: I.I. at July 30, 2013 11:33 AM (MhA4j)
Great point. For the dullards of the Left (i.e., most of them), sharing the opinions of the perceived "smart people" is way of displaying their own membership in the Intellectual Sophistication Club, even if they couldn't coherently explain the logical basis of their opinions if you cornered them.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 30, 2013 11:33 AM (8ZskC)
Has anyone else noticed that Barry barely even fucking acknowledged the Boston massacre?
Barely stopped golfing to peek at a TV.
And the hordes followed in line, like the dumb puppets they are.
Depressing.
Posted by: Rev Dr E Buzz Feminist at July 30, 2013 11:33 AM (U/rqn)
Posted by: Reggie Love at July 30, 2013 11:33 AM (Pr6hk)
Posted by: Lincolntf at July 30, 2013 11:34 AM (ZshNr)
Posted by: traye at July 30, 2013 11:34 AM (4TQqp)
Posted by: Navycopjoe bids aloha to Flossie at July 30, 2013 11:34 AM (7D6bD)
The Robbers Cave experiment of 1954 show why it is vitally important to come together as a group/country against a common foe, rather than to set ourselves apart from fellow countrymen:
The Misconception: You celebrate diversity and respect othersÂ’ points of view.
The Truth: You are driven to create and form groups and then believe others are wrong just because they are others.
Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at July 30, 2013 11:34 AM (ADnWI)
-- I always thought 9/11 was, at the core, something simple. Non-state, political actors committed an act of terrorism against civilians.
That's... pretty simple. Simple enough that you could use it on a book jacket or one of those three-line movie summaries in the TV Guide. 9/11 -- the event -- is simple. Everything surrounding it, the penumbras, if you will, can get complicated. But evil people actually seizing of planes and flying them into buildings to kill people they hated irrationally?
Simple.
Posted by: Matt S. at July 30, 2013 11:34 AM (PDTch)
Posted by: oeJay44incday at July 30, 2013 11:34 AM (QxSug)
Posted by: mrp at July 30, 2013 11:34 AM (HjPtV)
Posted by: Marcus at July 30, 2013 11:34 AM (GGCsk)
It's where I'm at I should have taken their rage in 2000 at their word and prepared emotionally...
part of why I welcome the end of this experiment is the chance to try again...
as it stands now 42% of the nation tops is playing the game of the founders...
not enough and I'm tired of counting on idiots to secure the founding...losing the schools lost us the whole game.
Posted by: sven10077 at July 30, 2013 11:35 AM (LRFds)
This is a product of the Frankfurt School: Critical Theory. It's goal is the destruction of the country through incessant, relentless, fact-free criticism. Bill Whittle has a great video on this over at PJM.
It's broken into factions. Feminazis attack the "patriarchal suppression" of womyn, blacks call the nation 'racist' at every opportunity (see Zimmerman, George, Hispanic, white), gays call us "anti-gay H8terz!!1". After a while, it's just too much insanity to bear. Attack, attack, attack.
Psychologically, it's a validation of immaturity. Combine that with the ongoing efforts of the cultural controllers to keep men infantilized and portraying them as ignorant imbeciles (just waiting for Mom to come along with the right Answers to Everything) and you have a nation filled with narcissitic, spoiled brats who reject common sense and feel good doing it.
Want a good comeback to these know-it-alls when they start their bullshit about how bad we are? Ask them, "Where is this perfect country whose values we're supposed to aspire to?" And press them hard for their answer.
They won't have one, but it's fun to watch them sputter.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at July 30, 2013 11:35 AM (0HooB)
Posted by: I.I. at July 30, 2013 11:35 AM (MhA4j)
Ace, this aspect you describe of the culture wars holds true for more than just matters political and matters cultural.
Your essay has effectively captured what the dynamic is in the conflict over radical LGBT efforts at attaining sociopolitical hegemony, or at least protected-ethnicity status.
Particularly your Point #4 is where the conflict, at base, gets most heated -- and I am going to say clearly that I am in the camp that would agree with former Yeshiva University chancellor Rabbi Norman Lamm that homosexual acts are "prima facie disgusting".
In other words, not only do "we" in this "camp" I reference (sorry for the scare-quotes) deem homosexual acts indefensible, but also many of us (most? all?) tend to reason that LGBT-ers deep down also recognize the indefensibility.
And the more intensely radical the LGBT reaction to this inner recognition -- aided, or exacerbated, take your pick, by advocacy of the anti-homosexual-activity "camp" -- the more determined the LGBT effort to shift the grounds of the argument.
In other words, as you so effectively point out, this determined effort encompasses swapping the moral for the aesthetic and vice versa.
Posted by: RamonAllones at July 30, 2013 11:35 AM (3lLli)
Posted by: The Guy Who Says Jejune and Banal at July 30, 2013 11:36 AM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Michael Shulan at July 30, 2013 11:37 AM (ggRof)
Well, given his mentors, he doesn't want to gloat on a successful mission. Just one battle in the long war for totalitarianism
Posted by: William Ayers at July 30, 2013 11:37 AM (Pr6hk)
Posted by: wooga at July 30, 2013 11:37 AM (YeZ0a)
Posted by: Trivial Pursuer at July 30, 2013 11:38 AM (/sohm)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 30, 2013 11:38 AM (7jWlo)
Posted by: Gene Shalit at July 30, 2013 11:38 AM (Pr6hk)
A bit Neanderthal and not as intellectually stimulating as this discourse, I know, but generally effective.
Posted by: Marcus at July 30, 2013 11:38 AM (GGCsk)
Posted by: Vehemently American 'Merican at July 30, 2013 11:39 AM (9eDbm)
Posted by: BCochran1981 at July 30, 2013 11:39 AM (da5Wo)
Forget it, Jake. It's New York City. If it broke off and drifted out to sea, it would be a major improvement to the eastern seaboard.
Posted by: comatus at July 30, 2013 11:39 AM (JNUY4)
Posted by: Gene Shalit at July 30, 2013 03:38 PM (Pr6hk)
"Now You See Me"
Posted by: Serious Cat at July 30, 2013 11:39 AM (UypUQ)
Posted by: oeJay44incday at July 30, 2013 11:39 AM (QxSug)
Fuck them.
I've had it.
Posted by: dananjcon at July 30, 2013 11:39 AM (jvd3N)
Posted by: rickb223 at July 30, 2013 11:40 AM (bpzkI)
Posted by: Soona at July 30, 2013 11:40 AM (fnMtM)
Posted by: Breitbart's Ghost at July 30, 2013 11:40 AM (Pr6hk)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 30, 2013 11:40 AM (7jWlo)
Or at least make them easier to find on your site.
Posted by: Marcy Furtive at July 30, 2013 11:41 AM (xvolr)
Posted by: John Kerry at July 30, 2013 11:41 AM (wAQA5)
Posted by: SpongeBob ReaverSaget at July 30, 2013 11:41 AM (epxV4)
Posted by: EC at July 30, 2013 11:42 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Joe at July 30, 2013 11:42 AM (7pOq5)
Posted by: BCochran1981 at July 30, 2013 11:42 AM (da5Wo)
Posted by: oeJay44incday at July 30, 2013 11:42 AM (QxSug)
Posted by: Caliban at July 30, 2013 11:42 AM (DrC22)
Posted by: Roy at July 30, 2013 11:43 AM (VndSC)
59...I think America is done.
I think this is now an entirely transactional relationship now.
Posted by: ace at July 30, 2013 03:30 PM (/IWYB)
----------
I don't believe that "America is done", Ace.
I think we're going through a phase of exploring the dark side.
It's as though some people have to be shown, first hand, the wisdom of things that the Left is trying so hard to tear down.
We are still a very young country.
It's like we've been going through that phase that teenagers go through...where they reject what their parents have been teaching them...and they have to discover for themselves 'Why you don't do that'.
Posted by: wheatie at July 30, 2013 11:43 AM (F6vyp)
#5
Without any grand achievement of their own, they begin shitting on anything of worth.
More simply: haters want to hate.
Posted by: CAC at July 30, 2013 11:43 AM (S2Djv)
Posted by: wooga at July 30, 2013 11:43 AM (YeZ0a)
It was on that day, I remember getting out of the 6 train at Chambers and looking up and seeing paper blowing in the air almost like birds coming from the tower that was first hit against a perfectly blue sky (and I was like WTF happened - i felt the ground rumble while i was on the train)- then I smelled the air. I was downtown that day too. Still am, only further downtown now.
Posted by: Penfold at July 30, 2013 11:44 AM (Fbt5B)
Posted by: Alan Alda at July 30, 2013 11:44 AM (Pr6hk)
Posted by: baldilocks at July 30, 2013 11:45 AM (Tnlh/)
I don't believe that "America is done", Ace.
I think we're going through a phase of exploring the dark side.
Posted by: ace at July 30, 2013 03:30 PM (/IWYB)
It's like America is trying anal.
Posted by: Jollyroger at July 30, 2013 11:45 AM (t06LC)
Complexity and their other favorite - nuance - are preferred because it gives them an endless amount of wiggle room and number places from which to cook up explanations/explanations/criticism.
If it's just America = good, Al Qeda = bad, then anything other than siding with America obviously makes them the enemy. Root causes don't matter, etc.
Posted by: Lizzy at July 30, 2013 11:45 AM (xvolr)
All accede about the ultimate way
To rhyme the words 'Liberal Democrat':
"Being a dishonest, juvenile prat"
Posted by: RiverC, White Chocolate Emancipator at July 30, 2013 11:45 AM (El+h4)
The universe, all 11 dimensions of it, moves in cycles. We are in a shitty one right now. But things change even when it looks highly unlikely.
Would anyone here have predicted the death of the PEUs in a state like Wisconsin in 2005?
Or that the mindset of the country would become more pro-gun and more pro-life (while simultaneously polling more pro-gay marriage) over the last decade?
It isn't over unless we yield and let it be so.
Posted by: CAC at July 30, 2013 11:45 AM (S2Djv)
114 -
I tend to agree, that this has been a slow drip, and it would take some kind of will we don't currently possess to get things going in the other direction.
Or another massive attack.
September 11 is coming round again...
Posted by: BurtTC at July 30, 2013 11:45 AM (TOk1P)
Posted by: rickb223 at July 30, 2013 11:46 AM (bpzkI)
Posted by: RiverC, White Chocolate Emancipator at July 30, 2013 11:46 AM (El+h4)
Posted by: wooga at July 30, 2013 11:46 AM (YeZ0a)
Posted by: oeJay44incday at July 30, 2013 11:46 AM (QxSug)
Someone before you said it like this (paraphrase): they call lies the truth and the truth a lie. And like this: they call evil that which is good and good, evil.
Gnat-straining and camel-swallowing, all.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at July 30, 2013 11:46 AM (0HooB)
Posted by: oeJay44incday at July 30, 2013 11:47 AM (QxSug)
I still almost tear up every time I salute the flag in Uniform. And I am not kidding
As long as its not one of those unisex uniforms.
Posted by: polynikes at July 30, 2013 11:47 AM (m2CN7)
You poke fun at yourself but I think those are excellent descriptors of Shulan and the New Class.
I keep saying this but there is no point attacking such people on grounds they don't believe are legitimate. That is, call them "unpatriotic" and they smile. Because they are proudly so. That does not diminish them; they consider that strong evidence of their superiority.
To make the case against them one must evaluate them against their own criteria.
They are not enlightened; they are jejune. They are not interesting nor original in thought; they are banal.
Posted by: ace at July 30, 2013 11:48 AM (/IWYB)
Posted by: CAC at July 30, 2013 11:48 AM (S2Djv)
Posted by: zsasz at July 30, 2013 11:48 AM (MMC8r)
Posted by: EC at July 30, 2013 11:48 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at July 30, 2013 11:48 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Michael Shulan at July 30, 2013 03:37 PM (ggRof)
As someone who actually genuinely loved her, the idea of her, I'm beginning to have those thoughts as well. Wouldn't it be better?
America is dead. We killed her.
Posted by: Jollyroger at July 30, 2013 11:49 AM (t06LC)
>>>>To make the case against them one must evaluate them against their own criteria.
Here, here!
Posted by: Saul Alinsky at July 30, 2013 11:49 AM (VndSC)
Posted by: Harry Reid is a pederast at July 30, 2013 11:49 AM (Pr6hk)
Posted by: oeJay44incday at July 30, 2013 11:49 AM (QxSug)
Posted by: eastvalleyphx at July 30, 2013 11:49 AM (GRvW4)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 30, 2013 11:50 AM (9Xc5j)
Posted by: Soona at July 30, 2013 03:40 PM (fnMtM)
As I said in the other thread Soona, thanks for the advice but its totally contradictory from your previous comments.
Posted by: polynikes at July 30, 2013 11:50 AM (m2CN7)
Posted by: kreplach at July 30, 2013 11:50 AM (CofEF)
They are not enlightened; they are jejune. They are not interesting nor original in thought; they are banal.
Posted by: ace at July 30, 2013 03:48 PM (/IWYB)
Old hat and sputtered out. When the avant-garde is the norm, it is no longer avant-garde.
Posted by: CAC at July 30, 2013 11:51 AM (S2Djv)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at July 30, 2013 11:51 AM (klTyW)
Posted by: Dwight D Eisenhower at July 30, 2013 11:51 AM (Pr6hk)
Posted by: oeJay44incday at July 30, 2013 11:52 AM (QxSug)
Posted by: Iblis at July 30, 2013 11:52 AM (9221z)
2. To suggest the speaker has some Deep Thoughts in mind which he'd like to share with you but he's not sure you'd quite understand. Spoiler Alert-- he doesn't. He hasn't done the homework and hasn't really thought very hard about these matters but he wants credit for having done so just the same. And so he'll buy some intellectual cache on the cheap by simply signalling he's a Deep Thinker Who Thinks Deeply About Thoughts.
Posted by: rdbrewer at July 30, 2013 11:52 AM (Iyg03)
Posted by: L, elle at July 30, 2013 11:53 AM (0PiQ4)
Posted by: brak at July 30, 2013 11:53 AM (iEoiA)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 30, 2013 11:53 AM (9Xc5j)
Posted by: Mikey NTH - owner of the Outrage Outlet by the 4-way stop at July 30, 2013 11:53 AM (hLRSq)
143 -
Exactly, but there is a list of acceptable positions to take, and it takes no amount of thought to get one's self on the right side of these positions.
That it further requires one to believe this makes one intellectually superior would be hilarious if it wasn't so pervasive.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 30, 2013 11:53 AM (TOk1P)
Posted by: oeJay44incday at July 30, 2013 11:54 AM (QxSug)
>>>I've also got a pet peeve about the victims families declaring the site "sacred ground" and demanding that acres of valuable land be left fallow in perpetuity at our expense.
That also applies to laws named after a victim. Inevitably, almost every one of them turn out to be horrible laws based on emotion with unintended consequences.
Posted by: Roy at July 30, 2013 11:54 AM (VndSC)
143...To make the case against them one must evaluate them against their own criteria.
They are not enlightened; they are jejune. They are not interesting nor original in thought; they are banal.
Posted by: ace at July 30, 2013 03:48 PM (/IWYB)
-------
Exactly, Ace.
They are spewing an anti-patriotism attitude that was 'new and edgy' back in the 60's.
Now...it is passé, and yawn-worthy.
Posted by: wheatie at July 30, 2013 11:54 AM (F6vyp)
Posted by: rickb223 at July 30, 2013 11:55 AM (bpzkI)
@164
Almost every liberal I've met from the northeast subscribes to a combination of 2 and 4. They don't want to appear like the parochial flag waving NASCAR fans and secretly hate the same for their success. But, at least they watch the Newsroom and Girls and smugly congratulate themselves on their intellectual superiority.
Posted by: Jollyroger at July 30, 2013 11:55 AM (t06LC)
Posted by: zsasz at July 30, 2013 03:48 PM (MMC8r)
Funnily enough, leftism is the "popular opinion" of today. They're conforming to the "non-conformist" group, and think so highly of themselves for it.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at July 30, 2013 11:55 AM (sGtp+)
So when do we start laughing at all this?
Like Jerry Falwell's OMG THERES GHEY IN EVERYTHING
Why not run the same with the constant cries of racist/sexist/"common"/"primitive" ?
Their assurance in their own awesomeness is ripe for parody.
Posted by: CAC at July 30, 2013 11:55 AM (S2Djv)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at July 30, 2013 11:55 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Buzzsaw at July 30, 2013 11:56 AM (wrS2o)
that's a great line, i'm gonna use it.
Posted by: Shoey (team Constitution) at July 30, 2013 11:56 AM (jdOk/)
Posted by: oeJay44incday at July 30, 2013 11:56 AM (QxSug)
By treating questions of aesthetics as if they were matters of morality, and maters of morality as if they were matters of aesthetics.
To treat morality as a matter of morality, you see, and aesthetics as a matter of aesthetics, well, what can one say. It is so wretchedly common.
No, the bien pensant demonstrates his quality by trivializing the sacred and consecrating the trivial.
And then there's the knee-jerk reaction, taking the contradictory side of anything to show the difference. Unless it is done "ironically."
Posted by: Mikey NTH - owner of the Outrage Outlet by the 4-way stop at July 30, 2013 11:56 AM (hLRSq)
Posted by: I'm Rick Perry B$tch at July 30, 2013 11:57 AM (Pr6hk)
Posted by: I.I. at July 30, 2013 11:57 AM (MhA4j)
Posted by: zsasz at July 30, 2013 11:57 AM (MMC8r)
Bloviating self-important dickholes.
Posted by: Clownf*cker at July 30, 2013 03:56 PM (F26eZ)
True, but don't get me started on pictures of "pipes".
Posted by: Rene Magritte at July 30, 2013 11:58 AM (S2Djv)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at July 30, 2013 11:58 AM (ZPrif)
Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. I know deep down in places you dont talk about at parties, you don’t want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand to post. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to!”
some liberties taken. felt right
Posted by: thunderb at July 30, 2013 11:58 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Ivy League at July 30, 2013 11:59 AM (Pr6hk)
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at July 30, 2013 11:59 AM (QF8uk)
Posted by: Ian S. at July 30, 2013 11:59 AM (B/VB5)
America is dead. We killed her.
No, we didn't. We allowed her to be killed by her avowed enemies.
We had our patience and virtue exploited. Had we done what was necessary, Bill Ayers would be living in another country after being deported. Instead, he used his freedom to undermine the values of the country that nurtured him.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at July 30, 2013 11:59 AM (0HooB)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 30, 2013 11:59 AM (IXrOn)
Posted by: rickb223 at July 30, 2013 12:00 PM (bpzkI)
@190
Nothing. I believe on the current course we are on, a national breakup is all but inevitable. Detroit was the first salvo. When the first state falls, it will cause a chain reaction that has the possibility to take the rest of the nation with it.
Posted by: Jollyroger at July 30, 2013 12:00 PM (t06LC)
Posted by: JPS at July 30, 2013 12:00 PM (g11mv)
Posted by: drunkPilot at July 30, 2013 12:01 PM (MtCwV)
Posted by: LaQuisha Largess at July 30, 2013 12:01 PM (3lMGK)
Posted by: eleven at July 30, 2013 12:02 PM (KXm42)
Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at July 30, 2013 12:02 PM (S3yfV)
It's a process, people. When you whine about Once-Great America, you're falling for the gag and rising to the bait. I was reading the same talk in Readers Digest 50 years ago. Exact same. I know, it sounds all Old Testament, and feels good to say it, but really. Once you're not innocent anymore -- and you say you aren't -- you have to stop acting like you've just had your innocence violated.
And Spengler. Don't get me started.
Let's all write letters of complaint, and post them with Hiroshima stamps. Remember that one? The Smithsonian director didn't suffer much either.
Posted by: comatus at July 30, 2013 12:02 PM (JNUY4)
Posted by: jakeman at July 30, 2013 12:02 PM (96M6e)
Posted by: baldilocks at July 30, 2013 12:03 PM (Tnlh/)
Posted by: goddessoftheclassroom at July 30, 2013 12:03 PM (KCSKk)
Posted by: Arbalest at July 30, 2013 12:03 PM (FlRtG)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at July 30, 2013 12:03 PM (ZPrif)
Looked at the prism created by the filthy stench of the New Left, which is obviously running things now, the fight from within to destroy this country is obviously happening.
They are attacking and attacking at the core of this country, day after day.
They've completely run the idiot GOP over.
Would Bill Buckley have a choice word to say about those assholes, or would he be off on the fringes talking immigration?
They shit we always talked about happening IS happening.
And that's about it...
Go silently into the night, and read some Whittaker Chambers.
Posted by: Rev Dr E Buzz Feminist at July 30, 2013 12:03 PM (U/rqn)
86 The moral relativism argument, with the caveat that the "truth" resides in the mind of the one holding the gun.
Posted by: mrp at July 30, 2013 03:34 PM (HjPtV)
That is the shifty nature of moral relativism and deconstruction - there are no specifically defined terms, no absolutes, no judgements. I suspect Shulan is post-nationalistic and probably winces at the mention of American "exceptionalism."
Posted by: venus velvet at July 30, 2013 12:03 PM (g94P/)
Just as here, they had put the work in the hands of a lefty museum curator who was nauseatingly ambivalent about presenting the traditional American historical narrative, and who instead wanted some vague postmodernist internationalist bunk about "showing all sides" of the event.
Forgetting in the process to "show the side" involving the Pearl Harbor attack by Japan which had begun the war that the atomic bombings ended.
And forgetting to "show the side" of the U.S. combat vets who to this day credit those bombings with saving their lives, which they expected to lose in the ground invasion of the Japanese home islands.
Leftists do this sort of thing reflexively. Instinctively. Automatically. They live in a milieu where tampering with the contemporaneous truth for winning their political goals is actively encouraged and celebrated. So tampering with historical truths comes as naturally to them as a new-hatched mosquito seeking for blood.
Posted by: torquewrench at July 30, 2013 12:04 PM (gqT4g)
Posted by: wooga at July 30, 2013 03:37 PM (YeZ0a)
wicked good, please carry on.
Posted by: Shoey (team Constitution) at July 30, 2013 12:04 PM (jdOk/)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 30, 2013 12:05 PM (wzlt7)
Posted by: JPS at July 30, 2013 12:05 PM (g11mv)
Posted by: thunderb at July 30, 2013 12:05 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile[/i][/b][/s][/u] at July 30, 2013 12:05 PM (qyfb5)
Posted by: Farmer Joe at July 30, 2013 12:05 PM (HJsDx)
Posted by: AmishDude at July 30, 2013 12:06 PM (9priM)
http://tinyurl.com/kyksaxp
The hits just keep coming. these people are Godless, shameless, vermon.
Posted by: dananjcon at July 30, 2013 12:06 PM (jvd3N)
Posted by: rickb223 at July 30, 2013 12:06 PM (bpzkI)
Posted by: eleven at July 30, 2013 12:07 PM (KXm42)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at July 30, 2013 12:08 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Lauren at July 30, 2013 12:08 PM (ELdpj)
Critical Theory, Cultural Marxism, Fen's Law, Sayet's Conjecture, etc. It's a cultural phenomenon verging on a religious cult (sometimes actually arriving there) dedicated to "worldly salvation" and involving "secret rituals and commitments" that help people feel like they're special when, in fact, they're *extremely* ordinary thinkers.
It is hard to summarize in an understandable way, because it depends on everything from Plato to Rousseau to Marx to Cloward and Piven and Alinsky, with the Utopian Movement and a variety of art and literature movements inbetween.
Ultimately you end up with people who lie about their beliefs (and yours) in aid of a Great Goal that has always failed, and are quite willing to sabotage you (because they see you as a barrier to Paradise), and they drop "cultural signifiers" to let each other know who they are.
The fundamental dishonesty of it all has actually worked - only a tiny percentage of people know about The Long March or Obama's place in the Chicago Communist movement, and fewer seem to care.
And since it works, it will continue. And the worst thing is it works so well that a significant percentage of the adherents are functionally unaware of the actual tenets of the belief system, and have attached to the "false narrative" layered on top about (insert interest group here).
History suggests those groups will "go under the bus" rather quickly should the "cultural marxists" obtain enough power to actually enforce their will.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile at July 30, 2013 04:05 PM (qyfb5)
damn this thread is full of excellent comments...
Posted by: Shoey (team Constitution) at July 30, 2013 12:09 PM (jdOk/)
Posted by: Iblis at July 30, 2013 12:09 PM (9221z)
224 -
Enough of them believe they are going to be the ones in charge, so yeah, they're willing to have the rest of you rubes living by their rules, and being herded like the sheep you (we) are.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 30, 2013 12:10 PM (TOk1P)
Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, aka MrCaniac at July 30, 2013 12:10 PM (BXLPR)
Posted by: Iblis at July 30, 2013 12:10 PM (9221z)
blacks are still sold to other blacks in Africa today
maybe that's where they should focus their talents and energies
but, no a.c., lousy toilets, disease, danger
no thanks. let me bitch in NYC from the comfort of my loft in SoHo
Posted by: thunderb at July 30, 2013 12:10 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: rickb223 at July 30, 2013 12:11 PM (bpzkI)
Posted by: Farmer Joe at July 30, 2013 04:05 PM (HJsDx)
Leftism has inoculated its supporters against thinking, or results, or reality. There is only the warm fuzzy feeling that believing in Leftism grants them.
What makes it sad is how these emotive useful idiots clothe themselves with adjectives like, "common sense", "logical", "scientific", when their own actions demonstrate nothing of the sort.
The words make them feel good, you see.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at July 30, 2013 12:11 PM (oY6Yp)
Posted by: Steve0521 at July 30, 2013 12:12 PM (kyAWi)
Posted by: SFGoth at July 30, 2013 03:21 PM (Y2PXh)
So Europe is paradise now? Last year, over 140,000 elderly and chronically ill patients in the UK were denied food, water, and medical treatment and were 'allowed' to die--largely to free up the resources necessary to keep them alive. Euthanasia has become common practice there, especially (for some reason) in the northern countries such as Denmark, and reasons for euthanasia now encompass mental illnesses such as depression. Militarily, the UK has dispensed with the last of its carriers and is now, by any measure, purely a regional power roughly equivalent to Pakistan or Turkey. Unemployment in most European countries is at or around 15%+--and is estimated to be as high as 20% in France. The birthrate in all European countries is catastrophic by any societal measure, ensuring the unsustainability of their cradle-to-grave entitlement model. Don't even get me started on those countries, such as Greece, that are a hairsbreadth away from becoming truly dysfunctional states.
So you want to try that again? I understand Peruvia is very beautiful this time of year.
Posted by: troyriser at July 30, 2013 12:12 PM (2jF2B)
I assume somebody said this by now, but if not:
Shulan didn't want to include the photo because he is vigilantly and so vehemently Anti-American.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 30, 2013 12:13 PM (4+FWp)
You know what? If that fartknocker is representative of what our country has become, maybe we actually *did* deserve it. Well, maybe not "we", but "him and they". The three thousand innocents that happened to get in the way that morning certainly didn't deserve it.
Fuck these people. They have done everything humanly possible in the wake of 9/11 to make the GWOT as expensive, destructive, corrosive, and unpopular to the United States. They are at least indirectly responsible for thousands of US mil casualties not because they wired the IED's or took a potshot with a rusty AK, but because they gave the enemy hope. Hope that they could win if the leftist press could hammer on GWB, Cheney, etc long enough to put a sympathetic, effeminate scumbag in office. Well, they won.
Stretch this neverending quest to drive what was the greatest nation that ever was into the ground across the spectrum - business, healthcare, education, privacy, self-defense, and FREEDOM in general and here we are.
I don't know how a nation digs out of this peacefully. I really don't.
Posted by: Jaws at July 30, 2013 12:13 PM (4I3Uo)
Posted by: Clownf*cker at July 30, 2013 12:13 PM (F26eZ)
Posted by: Conservative Crank at July 30, 2013 12:13 PM (sQ0LB)
Posted by: AmishDude at July 30, 2013 04:06 PM (9priM)
Victims suffer as a result of someone else's actions - they are innocent of causing the harm they feel.
If you're not a victim, you must have done something to not be a victim, therefore you are not innocent, you must be guilty.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at July 30, 2013 12:14 PM (sGtp+)
241 -
That's the part that keeps me warm at night. They haven't thought this through, or they have, but they think they will disarm the rest of us before we act.
Which reminds me, I need to make arrangements to take the daughter to the range this week. She's been asking.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 30, 2013 12:14 PM (TOk1P)
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at July 30, 2013 12:15 PM (QF8uk)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at July 30, 2013 12:15 PM (klTyW)
Posted by: Farmer Joe at July 30, 2013 04:05 PM (HJsDx)
-
The camp guards ate better than the prisoners in Siberia, but not much better. Problem is, most of the intelligentsia thinks they will be in the Politburo, not lined up against the wall, as is traditional.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 30, 2013 12:15 PM (wzlt7)
Posted by: I.I. at July 30, 2013 12:15 PM (MhA4j)
Posted by: RWC at July 30, 2013 12:16 PM (fWAjv)
Posted by: randomized lurker at July 30, 2013 12:16 PM (AnfcZ)
I agree, but the thing that's bothering me is... to be replaced with what? The Frankfurt school made sense in the 30s when communism was a relatively new idea, and the major horrors of the 20th century were still a few years away.
It is to be replaced with Control, regardless of it's particular name or flavor. Progressivism, Marxism, Communism or Dadaism, it doesn't matter.
It's Freedom versus Enslavement at its most fundamental level. It transcends politics and enters the realm of human nature, essentially becoming psychological. Our Founders understood this failure of mankind, which is why they wisely limited the power of government, knowing that power will be abused and there are few ways of preventing that from happening short of bloodshed. Their hope was that succeeding generation would be moral, honest and empathetic to their fellows, in order to preserve the foundation of Freedom they constructed for us.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at July 30, 2013 12:16 PM (0HooB)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile[/i][/b][/s][/u] at July 30, 2013 12:17 PM (qyfb5)
Posted by: steevy at July 30, 2013 12:17 PM (9XBK2)
Posted by: thunderb at July 30, 2013 12:17 PM (zOTsN)
And when we shoot down your bullshit as fast as you can sling it, will Christian fundamentalist elements in our military stage another NBC attack on our nation?
You know, it really sucks that there's nothing much of value in teabilly country to attack. We shouldn't have to pay for the crimes of the "my god is bigger than your god" crowd.
But hey, keep disenfranchising minorities and desperately trying to control the sexuality of women. The rest of us humans will eventually push you 19th century cretins and your weaponized kids out of American life forever.
Posted by: WHOOPS at July 30, 2013 12:18 PM (ys7Bz)
Posted by: Cato at July 30, 2013 12:18 PM (hY4I8)
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at July 30, 2013 12:19 PM (v3pYe)
Posted by: Weirddave at July 30, 2013 12:20 PM (aH+zP)
"But hey, keep disenfranchising minorities and desperately trying to control the sexuality of women. The rest of us humans will eventually push you 19th century cretins and your weaponized kids out of American life forever."
LOL
Posted by: Rev Dr E Buzz Feminist at July 30, 2013 12:20 PM (U/rqn)
If it's simple then how can he put his stamp on the exhibit?
It's no different than journalists believing they need to interpret the news on our behalf. If we weren't simpletons in need of their great interpretive skills than they'd have no claim to superiority. Just anyone could cover the news. Oh...
Posted by: Lizzy at July 30, 2013 12:20 PM (xvolr)
@254
As we have already established, America is an idea first and foremost. Perhaps I was too encompassing in saying that America is dead. In some respects she lives on, in Texas, Oklahoma, Wyoming.
I do believe the spirit of America, what she was is dead, both in mass culture and on the coasts. I don't see how to revive her there, and as a 50 state landmass at current, I give what we think of America a few decades.
America in a sense is still alive, but not in the sense she was a few years ago.
Posted by: Jollyroger at July 30, 2013 12:21 PM (t06LC)
Posted by: Farmer Joe at July 30, 2013 12:22 PM (GLCZn)
Seriously, he's a great kid making money to help pay for college. Second year premed. From a family of three boys, all Boy Scouts, raised right, Christian, polite, call me ma'am and all that. Posted by: lindafell @ kids swim lessons at July 30, 2013 12:22 PM (Xfofp)
I suppose it requires a postmodernist to see complexity in a group of primitive terrorists who wipe their asses with their bare hands.
Posted by: Wodeshed at July 30, 2013 12:22 PM (a9L+B)
Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at July 30, 2013 12:22 PM (S3yfV)
And when we shoot down your bullshit as fast as you can sling it, will Christian fundamentalist elements in our military stage another NBC attack on our nation?
Sorry, I must have been in a coma somewhere for the first NBC attack launched by the right wing. Citation?
Posted by: Conservative Crank at July 30, 2013 12:23 PM (sQ0LB)
And a comment above to illustrate my thoughts. This fellow has no love of his countrymen and despises their very existence.
I wish you the best. You're going to need it.
Posted by: Jollyroger at July 30, 2013 12:23 PM (t06LC)
Military Oath of Enlistment;
" I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 30, 2013 12:23 PM (NyTSp)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at July 30, 2013 03:17 PM
Ditto.
That said, America has deviated from its course right now. We can thank generations of "inclusive" liberals sitting around in their drum circles while following the orders and singing the praises of the Marxists for that.
When it returns to its Constitutionally and morally mandated path (and it will), wack-jobs like Shulan will lose their jobs and be herded off to well-earned obscurity. People like Choom Boy will be laughed off any stage where they presume to preach hatred of this country and racism.
That will involve an interested, active citizenry. It will NOT involve analytical bullshit that, whether intended or otherwise, gives the wackos a certain amount of standing by acknowledging their view.
Of course it will also require those who offer opinions to offer suggested action as well. No more of these million-word diatribes, no matter how well written, that end up with the equivalent of "gee, it's awful, isn't it?"
Posted by: MrScribbler at July 30, 2013 12:24 PM (/RIVS)
funny how (ys7Bz) cant stay on topic, address the post, or offer counter arguments
only shouting. uber persuasive
Posted by: thunderb at July 30, 2013 12:24 PM (zOTsN)
236 It's posts like this that make me want to move to Peruvia where patriotism is illegal, except for a few folk dances (performed by specially licensed dancers) that are occasionally performed for the benefit of tourists.
fixt
Posted by: Anachronda at July 30, 2013 12:24 PM (xGZ+b)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile[/i][/b][/s][/u] at July 30, 2013 12:24 PM (qyfb5)
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at July 30, 2013 12:24 PM (QF8uk)
Posted by: RWC at July 30, 2013 12:24 PM (fWAjv)
"You must replied to this email immediately with your user name and password for enable us upgrade your E-mail Account properly."
Hmmm. Looks legit.
Nope, that's spam. Such requests are only legit if they ask for a CC # to verify your account. A Nigerian prince told me about that.
Posted by: Sticky Wicket at July 30, 2013 12:25 PM (qoQi/)
Posted by: thunderb at July 30, 2013 12:25 PM (zOTsN)
@276
That's just it. And here in America, unlike other countries, we don't even benefit from a common race or cultural heritage. The founding documents are all we have in common. Without them, the ideals they stand for, there really is no unified "America" left.
Posted by: Jollyroger at July 30, 2013 12:25 PM (t06LC)
Posted by: I.I. at July 30, 2013 12:26 PM (MhA4j)
Posted by: thunderb at July 30, 2013 12:26 PM (zOTsN)
Know what's profound and complex? Learning to fly but not how to land.
I think I may have read about that in Proust's "Remembrance of Things Past", which I pretend to have read.
And of course the middle class.
Posted by: Wodeshed at July 30, 2013 12:27 PM (a9L+B)
Posted by: The Hobo Wears Prada (Furry Disco Bang Bang) at July 30, 2013 12:27 PM (jopHG)
Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at July 30, 2013 12:27 PM (S3yfV)
That's why mom makes him stay in the basement when company comes over.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 30, 2013 12:28 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: WHOOPS at July 30, 2013 04:18 PM (ys7Bz)
Asking for an ID to vote isn't disenfranchising anyone. It's ensuring the voting process is as fair and honest as it's possible to be. Women's sexuality? I usually steer clear when it comes to political discussions about the sexuality of women except when it comes to infanticide. 'Reproductive rights' don't include the right to commit murder for the sake of convenience. And that bit about 'pushing us out of American life forever'? I certainly hope the 'rest of us humans' includes someone who can actually fight. It wouldn't be sporting otherwise.
Posted by: troyriser at July 30, 2013 12:28 PM (2jF2B)
Posted by: I.I. at July 30, 2013 12:28 PM (MhA4j)
Posted by: RWC at July 30, 2013 12:28 PM (fWAjv)
Posted by: thunderb at July 30, 2013 04:26 PM (zOTsN)
It could have been an excellent rage sock--if it had been funny, and not actually serious.
Posted by: Conservative Crank at July 30, 2013 12:28 PM (sQ0LB)
Posted by: thunderb at July 30, 2013 04:17 PM (zOTsN)
Roadtrip!
America is a big country and there are large parts of it where people live their lives and get stuff done without worrying too much about the federal government. To Tom Friedman's great regret America is not 'efficient' in macro trophy projects anymore - but we do have lots of loosely coupled independent systems that are efficient and quietly keep our day-to-day lives running smoothly. When you spend your days in a large city immersed in politics, it's easy to overlook this.
Posted by: Mætenloch at July 30, 2013 12:29 PM (pAlYe)
They are the Borg....with apologies to the Borg since they were up front about their motives.
What is it inside the Progressive mind that drives them to control that which they despise, rather than simply admit that they despise it and otherwise go on about their business?
Doesn't goddamned compute.....but boy, is it chilling.
Posted by: Hawkins1701 at July 30, 2013 12:29 PM (nmog7)
Posted by: Farmer Joe at July 30, 2013 12:29 PM (GLCZn)
wow, ys7Bz, is crazy.
I'm glad you think we have nothing to add, now if you excuse me I have to go call a friend who makes your beer, and then go out with a group of friends who make the fighter jets that keep you safe.
But you coastal nuts keep telling yourself you're special.
Posted by: tsrblke at July 30, 2013 12:29 PM (GaqMa)
Posted by: The Hobo Wears Prada (Furry Disco Bang Bang) at July 30, 2013 12:29 PM (jopHG)
Now we have to fight for what is worth saving since the last 100 years of experimentation in Federal overlord-ness, and too, the last 80 years of fighting communism/socialism from within our own borders.
I too have had WAAAAYYYY too many arguments with people so freakin' smart that they hold nothing dear except that to hold something dear means you are a mere mouth breather... that love our country or something teh stoopid.. College teaches elitism. It reinforces the class system that didn't used to exist really in true America before the GI bill sent a generation to college and their kids decided they were better than the rubes that got jobs doing shit. Pardon the the over-generalization for drama..
Posted by: Yip at July 30, 2013 12:30 PM (/jHWN)
Posted by: Farmer Joe at July 30, 2013 04:22 PM (GLCZn)
I've seen libs argue that the noble who lived hundreds of years ago had it better than the average modern man, because even though the noble had to store his crap in a pot, he had servants to boss around - whereas the average person today doesn't get that (outside of dining out, I s'pose).
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at July 30, 2013 12:31 PM (sGtp+)
Urban areas are surrounded by a very effective reality distortion bubble.
Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at July 30, 2013 12:31 PM (S3yfV)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile[/i][/b][/s][/u] at July 30, 2013 12:31 PM (qyfb5)
Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at July 30, 2013 12:32 PM (VtjlW)
Posted by: oeJay44incday at July 30, 2013 12:32 PM (QxSug)
Posted by: PC at July 30, 2013 12:32 PM (j5yaw)
Posted by: Ms Michelle Shulan at July 30, 2013 12:32 PM (n50fF)
Posted by: baldilocks at July 30, 2013 12:32 PM (Tnlh/)
Posted by: Farmer Joe at July 30, 2013 12:33 PM (Od5/V)
Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at July 30, 2013 12:33 PM (MhA4j)
defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies,
foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the
same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United
States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to
regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 30, 2013 04:23 PM (NyTSp)
-----------------------------------------------------
I've never signed anything or made any public retractions from this oath that I took so many moons ago.
I am still bound to it. And gladly so.
Posted by: Soona at July 30, 2013 12:33 PM (vTEof)
Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at July 30, 2013 12:35 PM (MhA4j)
Posted by: Yip at July 30, 2013 12:35 PM (/jHWN)
I want a statue of todd beamer, his face contorted in a banshee yell of "lets roll" not fucking wind chimes and reflecting pools."
I want a pyramid of skulls.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at July 30, 2013 12:36 PM (31Nrp)
Posted by: Farmer Joe at July 30, 2013 12:36 PM (Od5/V)
Posted by: I.I. at July 30, 2013 12:37 PM (MhA4j)
Posted by: The Hobo Wears Prada (Furry Disco Bang Bang) at July 30, 2013 12:37 PM (jopHG)
Yes, very much so, but I don't really see what the value of enslaving us would be. If you want to live like a pharoh, you can do it in America. You don't need to enslave anyone.
Look... I know the answer. It's power for the sake of power. I just don't know why anyone listens to them when the refutation of everything they stand for is staring them in the face every day.
At the risk of flogging Freud to death, it all comes back to psychology in general and the Ego in particular.
It is the Ego that propels these "people" to think and act as they do. Show me a dictator who isn't just pleased as punch that he's a dictator, that he holds the power of life and death over his victims.
It's the Ego that blinds these "people" to facts and reality. They refuse to acknowledge anything beyond their infantile "understanding" of the world they see. They are intellectual children, nurtured now by a culture that keeps them from the knowledge of the ancient thinkers and the high ideals they probed. They're the Mr. Rogers Generation: always told how special they are, even in their mistakes. They can do no wrong, regardless of the wrong they do.
It's the appeal to Ego in all its forms that reinforces them. They are willfully blind and willfully stupid to anything and anyone who dares challenge their worldview. Note their special disdain for Christianity and religion. It's a challenge to their Ego that they cannot stand: they are god. There is no Higher Power, only them and their feebleness against the world.
Put two people together in any setting. One will dominate the other just as surely as the Sun rises in the East, thanks to the Ego. It's not the way we were intended to live.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at July 30, 2013 12:37 PM (0HooB)
Posted by: Farmer Joe at July 30, 2013 12:39 PM (GLCZn)
Jeeze Ka-rist, there, Monster, remind me never to go out to dinner with you.
Posted by: comatus at July 30, 2013 12:41 PM (JNUY4)
Posted by: 9/11 Commissioners at July 30, 2013 12:41 PM (MhA4j)
Doesn't goddamned compute.....but boy, is it chilling.
Posted by: Hawkins1701 at July 30, 2013 04:29 PM (nmog7)
-
They know they cannot convince the proles to willingly follow, so force is mandatory.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 30, 2013 12:41 PM (wzlt7)
Posted by: The Hobo Wears Prada (Seroquel Enhances No Penisl) at July 30, 2013 12:42 PM (jopHG)
Posted by: Joe biden at July 30, 2013 12:43 PM (aH+zP)
Posted by: WalrusRex at July 30, 2013 12:43 PM (Hx5uv)
See, that's the problem with being law-abiding and moral. Fate will not let you know in advance when Bad Things are going to happen, be it violent crime or something much, much bigger. OTOH, the scumbags on the other side of the ledger get to choose the time and place. Ain't it great?
Prep for the worst. Then pray you're very, very wrong.
Posted by: Jaws at July 30, 2013 12:44 PM (4I3Uo)
Posted by: baldilocks at July 30, 2013 12:45 PM (Tnlh/)
Posted by: I.I. at July 30, 2013 12:45 PM (MhA4j)
Just read what the little troll was screeching. Screechy little troll.
BUT, you've proven Ace's point.
Posted by: Soona at July 30, 2013 12:45 PM (vTEof)
Posted by: The Hobo Wears Prada (Seroquel Enhances No Penis) at July 30, 2013 12:45 PM (jopHG)
@297
But are they? Go to an immigration rally. How many American flags will you see proudly displayed by those supposedly pushing for citizenship? How many coastal elites scoff at these, in the words of Ezra Klien "old" documents. Sure, politicians name check them, but if they don't adhere to them, to the spirit of self governance they stand for what then are they? Just words?
While we agree on what should and has bound Americans together, what I am saying is that this is beginning to fray and will not be the case for much longer if it is now. Socialism and the constitution are mutually exclusive. One cannot have both.
Posted by: Jollyroger at July 30, 2013 12:46 PM (t06LC)
Posted by: Arbalest at July 30, 2013 12:54 PM (FlRtG)
In other words, this sort of sophistry is a shibboleth for admission into the bean peasant club. It is kind of like the Freemasons' secret handshake.
When kids first go off to college, they are very vulnerable to this sort of thing. They are lonely and separated from their high school cliques. People are social animals and the left long ago realized that they could take advantage of human vulnerabilities by creating an easy to join club of good thinkers who's only rule is that you have to bad mouth the values of your parents and the other unenlightened muggles.
This is why when you try to argue facts and logic with lefties they so often reply with emotion. If they were to accept your argument, they would no longer be able to perform the shibboleth ceremony and they would be left alone and friendless.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at July 30, 2013 12:55 PM (31Nrp)
Posted by: I.I. at July 30, 2013 01:00 PM (MhA4j)
Posted by: WalrusRex at July 30, 2013 04:43 PM (Hx5uv)"
There are two lessons of Vietnam.
1) When a Republican is elected, all the bad decisions made by Democrats become Republican mistakes.
2) The way to win a war against the United States is to get Democrats enough political power in Washington, DC.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at July 30, 2013 01:01 PM (31Nrp)
Posted by: isophorone at July 30, 2013 01:01 PM (m/Ana)
And most college-educated have learned that our country is not so great after all, that Christianity isn't so great after all, and a lot of minorities are left out of popular literature and history, so both should be studied with only the most jaded eye.
Posted by: Yip at July 30, 2013 01:02 PM (/jHWN)
Posted by: I.I. at July 30, 2013 01:04 PM (MhA4j)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at July 30, 2013 04:37 PM (0HooB)
It is exactly as we were "intended" to live. That's why it happens surely as the sun rises in the East. Like it or not we aren't all that different from our chimp relatives. Watch their social interactions sometimes.
Posted by: DFCtomm at July 30, 2013 01:05 PM (EeJp0)
All you need to know about lessons from Vietnam are that the dems started the police action and made it a costly war and then pulled the purse strings on the republican President that campaigned on ending it and was winning it... and then were responsible for refusing financial support promised.... AND THE DEMS were NEVER held responsible ... most of the public still don't know and don't care. Thanks MSM!
Posted by: Yip at July 30, 2013 01:07 PM (/jHWN)
Posted by: I.I. at July 30, 2013 01:12 PM (MhA4j)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile[/i][/b][/s][/u] at July 30, 2013 01:19 PM (qyfb5)
Posted by: JackT at July 30, 2013 01:20 PM (PrrRo)
Posted by: I.I. at July 30, 2013 01:24 PM (MhA4j)
My reasoning?
(because reason in it's own right is what ace is getting at here, right? it is reason that created america, liberty, prosperity, codified primal freedoms based upon 2000 years of judea/christian mores and values, it was reason the great thinkers used to create a republic based upon the rule of law, not men, and there is everything rah rah to be said for that... if a coal miner with a 7th grade education... me, can figure that out, these mouth pieces are talking out their arses and their rationalizations to justify some worthless diarrhea of the mouth ain't worth a bucket of warm spit.)
When these meddlers and social engineers have managed to destroy reason and the west, it is folks like me, yes the Ewoks of this great land, who are going to inherit the earth, it is us who are going to have the last word. By word, rope, or barrel of a gun. It is folks like me who are the backbone of this land, who have had enough of this fucking bullshit.
That is all the reason one needs to be a patriot.
Posted by: Mt Top Patriot at July 30, 2013 01:25 PM (kdYtr)
Posted by: I.I. at July 30, 2013 01:28 PM (MhA4j)
I was 13 when the war ended in '75 with the horrid pull out of Saigon and the helo lifting the lucky off the rooftop. I remember watching it on TV and not grasping the significance ... and then years later reading and learning on my own what the hell happened and it made me angry.
I would argue that most young people today think of Vietnam as a republican war and failure...re: Nixon/military industrial complex. They are taught corruption by big business drove that war and that a lot of innocent minorities were drafted against their will to fight and die. And that's the meme.
Posted by: Yip at July 30, 2013 01:42 PM (/jHWN)
Posted by: Ray Van Dune at July 30, 2013 02:23 PM (3yyio)
Depressing.
Posted by: Rev Dr E Buzz Feminist at July 30, 2013 03:33 PM (U/rqn)
***
I prefer to think of them as trained circus animals.
Posted by: LGoPs at July 30, 2013 02:51 PM (lL1xY)
That is all the reason one needs to be a patriot.
Posted by: Mt Top Patriot at July 30, 2013 05:25 PM (kdYtr)
Hear! Hear! I'm right there with you MTP.
Posted by: LGoPs at July 30, 2013 02:54 PM (lL1xY)
Posted by: nerdygirl at July 30, 2013 03:15 PM (DpI6K)
Posted by: Titanium at July 30, 2013 03:35 PM (Yniyf)
I'm not entirely sure that the thinking goes that far. The anti-American Americans I think are best compared to the anti-black, black racists. Using a phrase like "You're not like those other darkies," is obviously, insulting and offensive, but if you take a liberal aside and tell them that 'You're not like the typical stupid-American" they'll grin.
A classmate in college refused to listen to the song "Desert Rose', because she claimed it was offensive that the background singer was a famous Algerian artist, and he was billed as backup for 'some American'. Nevermind that Sting was an international rock star at the time. Nevermind that Cheb Mami apparently had no problem with the job. American was, by definition, low-brow, low class, and somewhat dirty; similar to how rock was 'negro music' in a previous generation.
The notion isn't so much that they support terrorists, anymore than any other tyrant or petty dictator. They just know America is wrong, so anyone who hates America is right. Most wouldn't justify the Imperial Japanese army massacring millions of Chinese and Korean civilians, but they can go on for hours about Hiroshima and you would think America attacked Japan out of no where, and bombed a city for no reason. They can't be Europeon, but if they hate themselves and hate their culture enough, they might get a pat on the head and a "Well, you're better than most of your kind".
Posted by: Karen at July 30, 2013 07:21 PM (lP5ZQ)
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Posted by: Kate58 at July 30, 2013 11:15 AM (oLZsm)