October 15, 2013
— Ace This seems significant enough for a new post, even though I normally would have added it to the last one as an update.
Not sure if Boehner has officially decided, but leadership world + members who've met with them think the plan, even w/ changes, is dying
— Robert Costa (@robertcostaNRO) October 15, 2013
Well this is getting worrisome.
Then That's On You, Bitch:
#Breaking: Obama says he would veto debt-ceiling legislation if it includes provision cutting health subsidies for congressional officials.
— POLITICO (@politico) October 15, 2013
Update: "Dead."
Confirmed: tonight's vote is dead
— Robert Costa (@robertcostaNRO) October 15, 2013
Posted by: Ace at
01:56 PM
| Comments (683)
Post contains 112 words, total size 2 kb.
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 01:57 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: OCBill at October 15, 2013 01:58 PM (rFipM)
Default means debt payments exceed income.
We are not there.
Yet.
Keep bumping up the debt 'ceiling' and we WILL.
Posted by: ThomasD at October 15, 2013 01:58 PM (6CXX3)
Posted by: Dr Spank at October 15, 2013 01:58 PM (qRasw)
Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at October 15, 2013 01:59 PM (EGPJQ)
Exactly. The only way we default is if TFG orders it on purpose. (Which I fully expect him to do, btw)
Posted by: Who's Barry Badrinath? at October 15, 2013 01:59 PM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at October 15, 2013 01:59 PM (Y92Nd)
Posted by: hello, it's me also a creep-assed cracka.. at October 15, 2013 02:00 PM (9+ccr)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 02:00 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: Y-not at October 15, 2013 02:00 PM (5H6zj)
@ChadPergram I am told that Heritage Action asking for a no vote is what blew up House Rules tonight. Not a good sign for House GOP plan.
@robertcostaNRO Staffer who's familiar w/ internal GOP whip count: "They know that it is f*****d."
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at October 15, 2013 02:00 PM (YjDyJ)
Tell me Ace. What prevents the Fed from buying all of the pending bonds (coming to the end of the term) and NOT redeeming them until the debt limit is raised? What exactly stops that from happening?
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 02:00 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: SH at October 15, 2013 02:01 PM (ZFXqT)
Posted by: Dems and their lapdog media at October 15, 2013 02:01 PM (Vk2pI)
Posted by: someguy at October 15, 2013 02:01 PM (8XRrT)
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 02:01 PM (n/+FT)
Posted by: wooga at October 15, 2013 02:01 PM (5SCjJ)
Posted by: Jmel at October 15, 2013 02:01 PM (cfFqn)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 15, 2013 02:02 PM (ZPrif)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Face it, the whole game is rigged.
Posted by: ThomasD at October 15, 2013 02:02 PM (6CXX3)
Posted by: Honorary Shire Sherriff Joe at October 15, 2013 02:02 PM (RpKPD)
(Tommy Christopher bet me two BJs I wouldn't say that. I lose either way)
Posted by: mallfly at October 15, 2013 02:02 PM (bJm7W)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 02:03 PM (a6O1A)
It doesn't matter, the government is going to default. Along with pretty much every other government in the world. This is inevitable.
You want the default not to happen right now and are willing to trade a more costly default a little later for the time now. Or you are choosing not to think about medium term consequences. I don't know. But the failure of this government in no more than a few years, with Obamacare implemented, is a certainty.
Posted by: Methos at October 15, 2013 02:03 PM (hO9ad)
Posted by: Lando Calrissian at October 15, 2013 02:03 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: petunia at October 15, 2013 02:03 PM (DAcBA)
No, it's being run by the emperor's eunuchs. The plots within plots will become ever more baroque until someone steps in with a sword, lops off their heads, and says "I'm the boss".
Barry wants to be that guy, but just doesn't have the stones for it.
Posted by: pep at October 15, 2013 02:03 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: splatter at October 15, 2013 02:03 PM (eZ5y4)
+1
Posted by: ThomasD at October 15, 2013 02:03 PM (6CXX3)
Posted by: SH at October 15, 2013 02:03 PM (ZFXqT)
well we do. any kind of a default immediately sends interest rates for our borrowing skyrocketing.
Which you might say would discourage future borrowing.
Well, yeah, and our currently borrowed sum would suddenly be much more expensive.
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 05:28 PM (/IWYB)
==========
Still not seeing a downside.
See, I just sent another 5-figure check to the IRS.
I'm getting pretty damned sick and tired of funding all this bullshit.
And I don't fucking care that G'ma and G'pa will starve to death without their Social Security and Medicare that I'm paying for.
'Cause I'm getting pretty damned close to starving myself paying for them and the programs they--NOT ME--voted for.
Posted by: RoyalOil at October 15, 2013 02:03 PM (VjL9S)
So? If all fights are losers, and by that logic they all will be, because we are NEVER getting 60% of the Senate, so Democrats can always obstruct should we do anything. Should we just embrace our fate?
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 02:03 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at October 15, 2013 02:03 PM (hHc+X)
Posted by: Darth Reid at October 15, 2013 02:04 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Petunia at October 15, 2013 02:04 PM (oFCZn)
Obama is such horrible man. I hate to hear him speak now. I just hate it!!!!
Posted by: petunia at October 15, 2013 02:04 PM (DAcBA)
Posted by: wooga at October 15, 2013 02:04 PM (5SCjJ)
Except for the part about seeing Obama's face every time I reach into the fridge for the milk carton, I mean.
Posted by: Keith Arnold at October 15, 2013 02:05 PM (DMtT+)
Posted by: soothie at October 15, 2013 02:05 PM (+uYqz)
Thank you Heritage Foundation!
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 02:05 PM (0q2P7)
So let me get this straight. Your new position is "yes, I've wanted America to default on its fucking debt all along!" Am I correct on this?
And we're all supposed to go along with this?
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 02:05 PM (n/+FT)
DING! DING!
Reid and McConnell cooked up a solution and Boehner is the one who is supposed to sell it.
My guess is that Boehner's end will be them setting him up in his own cushy lobbying firm when he's out of office.
Posted by: ThomasD at October 15, 2013 02:05 PM (6CXX3)
Posted by: packsoldier at October 15, 2013 02:05 PM (L9/C8)
Posted by: t-bird at October 15, 2013 02:05 PM (FcR7P)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 02:05 PM (a6O1A)
At this point, he has to be wondering if he wants it.
Posted by: pep at October 15, 2013 02:06 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: southdakotaboy at October 15, 2013 02:06 PM (Baypg)
Posted by: Dr Spank at October 15, 2013 02:06 PM (qRasw)
Posted by: Darth Reid at October 15, 2013 02:07 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Skree at October 15, 2013 02:07 PM (m0sVN)
the receipts vs interest portion is moot, because they are not going to pay the bills that way
Posted by: AKAK at October 15, 2013 02:07 PM (4tkxZ)
It is called sticking to a budget.
Debt is legally binding. Everything else is a political <i>promise.</i>
Posted by: ThomasD at October 15, 2013 02:07 PM (6CXX3)
Posted by: packsoldier at October 15, 2013 02:08 PM (L9/C8)
Posted by: Inspector Asshole at October 15, 2013 02:08 PM (RpKPD)
Posted by: Mama winger on that iPad thingies at October 15, 2013 02:08 PM (P6QsQ)
Wow Ace, the first time I read one of your posts was last December at fiscal cliff time and you said, fuck, let it burn. I thought wow, there is a guy who I can relate to.
Now we are just suppose to give in because boo-hoo the media will adopt anti-gop rhetoric. Sorry but we are always the whipping boy of the MSM. We've been here before with Reagan and we can get through it again, maybe if the Mc Connells and Boners of the GOP would work on messaging and be public. Yeah, hoping for the improbable is a waste of time. But if we don't get something now? When will we ever?
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at October 15, 2013 02:08 PM (HVff2)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 15, 2013 02:08 PM (a4Omg)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 02:08 PM (a6O1A)
Acceptance is the first step on the path to serenity, grasshopper.
Posted by: pep at October 15, 2013 02:08 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 02:09 PM (a6O1A)
"there are things we know we know..." (we know we're going to go off the rails eventually)
"there are thing we know we don't know..." (will the Fed lead us into hyperinflation until the whole thing falls apart, or will we get deflation and a major depression (if not near total collapse) )
"but there are also thing we don't know that we don't know..." (what's down the road, Cincinnatus, Big Brother, a long time in the wilderness... Tea Party types give me some hope, anyway. A lot of them like the social order and have the firepower to keep it there, even if not, say, where I live... drat))
Posted by: mallfly at October 15, 2013 02:09 PM (bJm7W)
Posted by: Y-not at October 15, 2013 02:09 PM (5H6zj)
@robertcostaNRO “The votes aren’t there,” says a leadership aide. “We’ve been unable to get people around this strategy.” http://natl.re/19MY576
Somewhere, Harry Reid is smiling, because he has seen this move before...
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at October 15, 2013 02:09 PM (YjDyJ)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at October 15, 2013 02:09 PM (0HooB)
Posted by: Schrödinger's cat [/i] at October 15, 2013 02:10 PM (U2UQk)
Why is it so hard to understand that us seeing a Default is as likely as us seeing Santa Claus fucking a Smart Blonde while riding the Easter Bunny across the Capitol Steps?
It is illegal for the President to allow us to enter into Default, Ace.
He is Constitutionally forbidden to allow it.
Posted by: garrett at October 15, 2013 02:10 PM (xn2mZ)
Posted by: gracepmc at October 15, 2013 02:10 PM (rznx3)
Posted by: Merovign , Dark Lord of the Sith [/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at October 15, 2013 02:10 PM (qyfb5)
I like the last one, its like when the dems met with obama that was there one and only breaking point:
"listen Barack whatever happens happens, but we aren't going to subject ourselves to that communist health plan we passed. anything else is fine."
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 15, 2013 02:10 PM (N8z9m)
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 02:10 PM (/IWYB)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 02:10 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 15, 2013 02:10 PM (ZPrif)
It is illegal for the President to allow us to enter into Default, Ace.
He is Constitutionally forbidden to allow it.
And as we all know, Barry's all about the constitutionality.
Posted by: pep at October 15, 2013 02:11 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: Merovign , Dark Lord of the Sith [/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at October 15, 2013 02:11 PM (qyfb5)
CR+DR+Strong Vitter+ No Union Deal. Send it to the Senate and GO HOME.
Posted by: mrp at October 15, 2013 02:11 PM (HjPtV)
Posted by: SH at October 15, 2013 02:11 PM (iReEb)
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at October 15, 2013 02:11 PM (oFCZn)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 15, 2013 02:12 PM (a4Omg)
Posted by: someguy at October 15, 2013 02:12 PM (8XRrT)
You can thank the Heritage Foundation for this. They're scoring the vote, which means anyone who votes to reopen will get an 'insufficiently conservative' black mark against them for a primary challenger to exploit.
Excellent. Throw every last one of the bastards who won't hold the line, out.
Posted by: garrett at October 15, 2013 02:12 PM (xn2mZ)
Posted by: packsoldier at October 15, 2013 02:12 PM (L9/C8)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 02:12 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 02:12 PM (/IWYB)
Posted by: Jeff P at October 15, 2013 02:13 PM (+SXXg)
Posted by: The Fed and the BLS at October 15, 2013 02:13 PM (zg42c)
And as we all know, Barry's all about the constitutionality.
The Constitution has a mechanism to deal with this, too.
Posted by: garrett at October 15, 2013 02:13 PM (xn2mZ)
Posted by: t-bird at October 15, 2013 02:13 PM (FcR7P)
Posted by: Tutu at October 15, 2013 02:13 PM (CpWI4)
@RBPundit All you had to do was pass a bill and let Reid and Obama block it.
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at October 15, 2013 02:13 PM (YjDyJ)
I vote. I want result 2, 1, 0 in that order.
A D in office will give me 0. If I don't vote R we can assume a D will get in office.
This game is played as a series. One after another.
For the R, he would rather give me 1,0,2 in that order because it makes it easier for him to be re-elected.
If I vote R the R only has to give me 1 to improve my result over D. Therefore. Nash equilibrium, I should always vote R, and R should always give me 1. Every time we play.
I really want 2. How do I get 2? I have to convince R that I'm willing to act in a way not in my best interests in the sub-game series. The reputation of the irrational player.
You want to know why we seem like crazy ex-girlfriends R's you forced it on us. The only logical way to get more out of you was to not act in our immediate best interests in the current subgame.
Welcome to the irrational player. LIB
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 02:13 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 02:14 PM (/IWYB)
Posted by: wooga at October 15, 2013 02:14 PM (5SCjJ)
If it weren't for the Tea Party...Nancy Pelosi would still be running the House.
Think about that for a minute...
What level of hell would we be in right now, if Pelosi and Reid had been ramming through bills for the last 3½ years?
Posted by: wheatie at October 15, 2013 02:14 PM (7CgKa)
What sequester?
We've been "stable" on the debt clock for months ie "we are already over the debt ceiling"....
fuck I don't know why we even pretend to keep score anymore.
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 02:14 PM (9jfyN)
Whole lotta anti TP folks with handles I have never seen before posting this afternoon. Soros sent out the troops? LOL.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke
Just one of those amazing coincidences you're not supposed to notice.
But not just Soros. This semester's new crop of Republican interns is earning their units.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at October 15, 2013 02:14 PM (kdS6q)
of course we can default. I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about with this Convenient Claim. Where did you get it from?
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 06:10 PM (/IWYB)
Treasury takes in over $200B/mo, debt payments are less than $20B/mo. 14th Amendment requires public debts to be paid. In a better time when the public at least had a casual knowledge of the US Constitution, Obama would be impeached for merely threatening this, nowadays our conservative pundits repeat the lie. Whatever, Let It Burn, it's going to no mater what happens here.
Posted by: mugiwara at October 15, 2013 02:14 PM (hpYnL)
IF I ran the house GOP:
Demand the Senate pass the 8 Budget bills Harry Reid is sitting on.
Pass a clean, no strings Debt Limit hike until Jan 15.
Pass the budget piece by piece.
Demand Obamacare be enforced to the letter, or laws passed to exclude Congress and the WH. Bills to allow Obama to exclude business for one year (which is illegal).
Posted by: rd at October 15, 2013 02:14 PM (D+lxs)
the constitution applies to Congress, too, and if Congress is going to go all YOLO about it, why would the president have the sole duty of enforcing this guarantee (which is required of the US government as a whole)?
Not servicing the debt. That falls on the Executive.
Posted by: garrett at October 15, 2013 02:15 PM (xn2mZ)
We're about to find out.
I was a GOPer who stood with the tea party in 2010.
In 2014 I am a Tea Partier who is walking away from the GOP and encouraging others to do the same.
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 02:15 PM (9jfyN)
Think about that for a minute...
What level of hell would we be in right now, if Pelosi and Reid had been ramming through bills for the last 3½ years?
Posted by: wheatie at October 15, 2013 06:14 PM (7CgKa)
But but but the GOP and Dems are exactly the same, or something.
Posted by: Paul at October 15, 2013 02:15 PM (JM48I)
You know the Democrats would do that if they could.
Posted by: mallfly at October 15, 2013 02:15 PM (bJm7W)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 15, 2013 02:15 PM (ZPrif)
Go pay for your own condoms.
Posted by: navybrat at October 15, 2013 02:15 PM (RakrK)
Please, tell me, if 500,000 people (I personally believe there were a helluva lot more) on the Mall, and tens of thousands in state capitals everywhere are "teabaggers" and "teatards", how is John "Hurts So Good" Boehner supposed to stand up to the pressure?
Is it ever going to occur to anyone that under the status quo, conservatives are not only placed at a disadvantage, but actually and actively prevented from succeeding?
Posted by: WolfinNC at October 15, 2013 02:16 PM (Vvg+J)
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 02:16 PM (/IWYB)
CR+DR+Strong Vitter+ No Union Deal. Send it to the Senate and GO HOME.
Too late. Thanks a lot, Heritage Action. You played right into Reid's hand.
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at October 15, 2013 02:16 PM (YjDyJ)
You say that as if today's TrueCons have a teaspoon of respect for Bill Buckley.
To them, he's a filthy RINO from Connecticut who founded the Establishment GOP's rag so the McCains of the world can use Charles Krauthammer and George Will to control the conservatives with puppet strings.
And while we're at it, how about that RINO governor of a liberal state who's been endorsed by labor unions and Hollywood and signed an abortion bill into law? What the hell was that traitor's name again....?
Posted by: Lou at October 15, 2013 02:17 PM (VrJUC)
Posted by: packsoldier at October 15, 2013 02:17 PM (L9/C8)
Yeah, about that whole relying on a piece of paper thing....
Posted by: Neville Chamberlain at October 15, 2013 02:17 PM (6TB1Z)
Quite. Hell you could argue if we bothered doing a hard investigation into SSI Disability fraud coupled with 75% payouts across the board it would be a good thing.....
our currency would improve if you know the Fed would tell treasury to shut the goddamned xerox machine off.
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 02:17 PM (9jfyN)
And what if the world DOES end? (Or there is major market disaster, skyrocketing interest rates that balloon our national debt up to 1.5x nearly overnight, etc.) What will you say then?
"Oops"?
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 02:17 PM (n/+FT)
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 02:18 PM (/IWYB)
The commenter above is correct....not raising the debt limit is not default.
Default is when we do not pay an installment on our debt.
Technically we can stop borrowing immediately and pay off all current debt with the income stream from the taxes on the books.
Technically. But that would mean decreasing federal expenditures by something like 40%, and the chances of that are worse than Kate Upton and Eva Mendez agreeing to go to St. Barts with me.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 15, 2013 02:18 PM (/kU/5)
Posted by: rickb223 at October 15, 2013 02:18 PM (lUXJH)
Posted by: The Fed and the BLS at October 15, 2013 02:18 PM (zg42c)
And we're all supposed to go along with this?
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 06:05 PM (n/+FT)
There's no legitimate reason for anyone born after the baby boomers to pay for the debt they racked up. So default (as noted by others, broadly defined as the government not giving out money to all the people it promised to) is the highest moral goal available.
Recognizing that's unpopular, I would be willing to compromise to immediate balancing of the federal budget today, including current interest and some pay down of the debt as part of that budget until such time as the debt is entirely gone, at which point government must be barred from borrowing outside of wartime. A good first step on that road is defunding/repeal of Obamacare to be rid of the costs it is imposing.
Failure to do so little as that means DC just keeps loading up the credit card until something that will later be characterized as "completely unforeseeable" spooks the bond market and triggers a balanced budget at a time when doing so ends all 'mandatory' spending programs, or the default you pretend to be concerned about. This latter scenario will be much worse for everyone it touches since more debt will have accumulated by then and the resolution will be entirely chaotic.
Posted by: Methos at October 15, 2013 02:18 PM (hO9ad)
Posted by: soothie at October 15, 2013 02:19 PM (+uYqz)
Just one of those amazing coincidences you're not supposed to notice.
But not just Soros. This semester's new crop of Republican interns is earning their units.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at October 15, 2013 06:14 PM (kdS6q)
Yup, it's all a conspiracy. Don't let those polls with 20% TP favorability fool you. Everything is going perfectly. Polls are for strippers amirite?
Posted by: Paul at October 15, 2013 02:19 PM (JM48I)
Sad to say, Ace, but this blog has been going in that direction for some time. It gets wearisome.
Posted by: pep at October 15, 2013 02:19 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: rd at October 15, 2013 02:19 PM (D+lxs)
with money appropriated by Congress for that purpose. He doesn't service the debt out of the Government Money Pile. the money is appropriated by congress, then disbursed.
Yes. However, Congress can not choose to do that on their own. In order to do such, they would need to pass a bill. Which would have to be signed by the President to become actionable.
So, back to my original point, this ALL falls on the Executive. Default can ONLY be blamed on inaction from the Executive Office.
I know this isn't news to you, but the fact that nobody (read: Repubs in Congress) has made the case to the public, is abhorrent.
Posted by: garrett at October 15, 2013 02:19 PM (xn2mZ)
President High Chair has the Chicago Graft Guild's wetdream of IPAB care to shakedown voters.
The name may change but the stuttering clusterfuck democrat won't
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 02:19 PM (9jfyN)
I really wonder what Mr Buckley would think of this little situation. But that's all I can do is wonder. Anyone claiming anything different, even his son, is just blowing smoke around their own opinion.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 02:19 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: pc at October 15, 2013 02:19 PM (zeWyX)
It's funny as a joke -- but only because it's so ludicrous because no sane person actually wants the Burning Times.
It's insanely un-conservative to wish fervently for apocalyptic end times.
Listen to Buckley -- Don't Immanentize the Eschaton!
===============
Better the End Times than a life of slavery and scraps.
Best to keep living on your knees pretending you have any dignity left, yeah?
Posted by: RoyalOil at October 15, 2013 02:20 PM (VjL9S)
Think about that for a minute...
What level of hell would we be in right now, if Pelosi and Reid had been ramming through bills for the last 3½ years?
I shudder to think. Two years of straight Prog/Com rule was plenty to ruin us. This is a result of their innumerate spending. The GOP should stand strong and not break ranks. They have TFG and Reed up against the wall.
Don't back down for once.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at October 15, 2013 02:20 PM (0HooB)
Apparently it's actually now the Most Conservative Possible Thing you can do. Anyone who isn't in favor of "let it burn" is apparently a fuckin' RINO or something.
It's craziness. I think some people really just want to see the world burn because they personally have given up on hope. It doesn't occur to them that they might be the irrational ones, not us.
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 02:20 PM (n/+FT)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 15, 2013 02:20 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 15, 2013 02:20 PM (a4Omg)
this fifth grade "Agree with me or you're on the Uncool List!" type
crap?
Have you asked DrewM's thoughts on the matter? He'd know.
Posted by: Lou at October 15, 2013 02:20 PM (VrJUC)
Posted by: soothie at October 15, 2013 02:20 PM (+uYqz)
Yeah, that's all great, but what exactly did Reagan get us? He was great on the Cold War, and God bless him for all the people in the Eastern Bloc who are no longer under that tyranny. But what did he do for American politics? Did he dismantle the welfare state? Did he change the entire political conversation for a century, like FDR? Did he make some fundamental change that arrested the creeping progressive movement? I'll admit, I wasn't there in the 1980s, but I will infer that nothing of substance was actually done because we are right back where we started in 1979, only now we've got more debt than anyone has ever seen.
Posted by: WolfinNC at October 15, 2013 02:21 PM (Vvg+J)
Posted by: Jean at October 15, 2013 02:21 PM (CMlD4)
Not correct.
Blowing off payments to contractors and employees is not default. Not paying a legally mandated installment on U.S. government bonds is default.
In fact, the markets might react favorably to a deal (hypothetical in the extreme. It will never happen) in which the debt was prioritized and then all other government payments were negotiated.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 15, 2013 02:21 PM (/kU/5)
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 15, 2013 06:18 PM (/kU/5)
There comes a question though, what happens when we can't make payroll (or fulfill medicare dispersals for already rendered services, etc.)
Is that default? Those are technically debts (although I suppose they're unsecured creditors.)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 15, 2013 02:21 PM (GaqMa)
Posted by: Barry's Animal Farm and Petting Zoo at October 15, 2013 02:22 PM (/1ATA)
Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at October 15, 2013 02:22 PM (yz6yg)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 02:22 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: Paul at October 15, 2013 02:22 PM (JM48I)
Posted by: SH at October 15, 2013 02:22 PM (WbOdn)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maAyfcO-X3k
Posted by: Mitch McConnell at October 15, 2013 02:22 PM (aTXUx)
============
The country you loved does not elect and reelect Barack Obama.
The country you loved is gone . . .
Posted by: RoyalOil at October 15, 2013 02:22 PM (VjL9S)
You're nuts.
I just want you to know that. Totally insane. God help me, I'm scared that a substantial number of people around here might agree with you. That moment when you look around and realize that you really are surrounded by crazy people.
But I don't think think that most agree with you. I think you're out on a limb here.
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 02:23 PM (n/+FT)
Posted by: SkyNet at October 15, 2013 02:23 PM (+lPVc)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 15, 2013 02:23 PM (ZPrif)
Wow. Just, wow.
I didn't actually think any TrueCon had the balls to stand by his/her rhetoric and bash Ronald Reagan. I can't say I agree with you (far from it), but I truly salute your resolve. Bravo.
Posted by: Lou at October 15, 2013 02:23 PM (VrJUC)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 02:23 PM (1RQeV)
Well there's your problem. You're more worried about your political career than you are about doing the right thing.
Cincinnatus weeps.
Posted by: pep at October 15, 2013 02:23 PM (6TB1Z)
I'm not fervently hoping for anything. I see that end as unavoidable, and have come to the conclusion that delaying it given its inevitability is not preferred.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 02:23 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 15, 2013 02:23 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at October 15, 2013 02:23 PM (yz6yg)
Posted by: Rob in Katy at October 15, 2013 02:24 PM (gdGJ1)
Is that anything like the difference between rape and rape-rape?
It's not a default. It's a forced reduction in SPENDING.
Which is what needs to happen.
Posted by: ThomasD at October 15, 2013 02:24 PM (6CXX3)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 02:24 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: t-bird at October 15, 2013 02:24 PM (FcR7P)
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 02:24 PM (/IWYB)
Posted by: Flyover Country at October 15, 2013 02:24 PM (ULH4o)
No. Default is a carefully defined term used by debt markets.
Not paying our other bills is another problem with a different set of political and financial results.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 15, 2013 02:24 PM (/kU/5)
Posted by: Mama winger on that iPad thingies at October 15, 2013 02:24 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 15, 2013 02:24 PM (a4Omg)
152...Blowing off payments to contractors and employees is not default. Not paying a legally mandated installment on U.S. government bonds is default.
Exactly so.
Posted by: wheatie at October 15, 2013 02:24 PM (7CgKa)
If a default is rock bottom, then bring it the fuck on, and lets take the medicine sooner rather than later.
The public needs to stop rationalizing and enabling governmental bad behavior.
The rest of the world has already been planning for the dollar's replacement as a benchmark currency anyway
Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 15, 2013 02:24 PM (l5zzX)
Posted by: mongo78 at October 15, 2013 02:25 PM (amCAe)
Posted by: mythical "GOP Establishment" at October 15, 2013 02:25 PM (5ikDv)
Posted by: exdem13 at October 15, 2013 02:25 PM (kfSXj)
If Politico is correct, then it means Harry Reid will roll on the Vitter component. He knows it is a Dem-kill campaign move, so the plan is to roll it over to the White House for a veto. The Dems own it.
Posted by: mrp at October 15, 2013 02:25 PM (HjPtV)
When the Mongols invade and threaten to rape my wife and daughter and put my village to the sword, this sort of bloodshot-eyed fanatical language might be appropriate.
It's not appropriate when America has reelected a shithead of a liberal President. Don't include me in your Gotterdaemmerung dreams, buddy.
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 02:26 PM (n/+FT)
Posted by: T. at October 15, 2013 02:26 PM (Y6JQy)
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 06:01 PM
Oh horrors, the Heritage Foundation is actually informing their membership who is with them! Nobody else has EVER done that, this is UNPRECEDENTED and must be stopped at once or the Great Moderate Middle will NEVER forgive us!!!
Posted by: kbdabear at October 15, 2013 02:26 PM (aTXUx)
Posted by: Dancing Queen at October 15, 2013 02:26 PM (FDGeg)
Posted by: Lou at October 15, 2013 06:23 PM (VrJUC)
Ronald Reagan? More like Ronald RAMNESTY lol.
Posted by: True Conservative Hero at October 15, 2013 02:26 PM (JM48I)
Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 15, 2013 02:26 PM (l5zzX)
Posted by: exdem13 at October 15, 2013 02:26 PM (kfSXj)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 15, 2013 02:27 PM (ZPrif)
OK, read that last bit once again, slowly.
Don't like it, vote them out and put some more free spending Democrats (or GOP) in there.
Posted by: navybrat at October 15, 2013 02:27 PM (RakrK)
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 06:24 PM (/IWYB)
I think they would react violently, but if there was any sense that the 80% was going to be permanent, then my guess is that they would eventually rise.
The market doesn't give a shit about grandma and grandpa. It gives a shit about stability and future earnings. If the government simply cut its outlays, the market would be happy....eventually.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 15, 2013 02:27 PM (/kU/5)
I don't know. It sounds kind of appealing.
Posted by: Samson at October 15, 2013 02:27 PM (6TB1Z)
Have I made such an assertion? I've merely accurately stated the TrueCons' opinion of William F. Buckley. All I have to go on is the Buckley Rule - "the most rightward electable candidate" - which got supplanted by the stupid-as-fuck Limbaugh Rule - "the most rightward candidate and damn the consequences" which got us the down-by-five Senate minority we currently possess.
Hmm... five. Coons, Reid, Bennet, McCaskill, and Donnelly. Just enough.
Posted by: Lou at October 15, 2013 02:28 PM (VrJUC)
It's not appropriate when America has reelected a shithead of a liberal President. Don't include me in your Gotterdaemmerung dreams, buddy.
Will it take 5 Million Republican Voters not showing up at the polls to change your mind?
10 Million?
Because that will be the fruit of your willingness to compromise.
Posted by: garrett at October 15, 2013 02:28 PM (xn2mZ)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 02:28 PM (a6O1A)
Future history books will show it was actually dying over 20 years ago. What we see now is the rotting corpse starting to stink up the joint.
Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 15, 2013 02:28 PM (l5zzX)
so............
how much would we save by immediately cutting the depts. of education, agriculture, labor, and labor in half, also cut 20% off EBT and welfare
bet we could balance the shit out of the budget
Posted by: navycopjoe at October 15, 2013 02:28 PM (nooa6)
Boy, Obama and Reid better start dealing then.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 02:28 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: JEM at October 15, 2013 02:28 PM (o+SC1)
Owl it need not be an unhappy place.
I am looking forward tro escaping New York and California's communist dreams in New Texas or even "NEw Ohio"...
what I am not looking forward to is getting killed at Wal-Mart by "make a wish EBT shopper"
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 02:29 PM (9jfyN)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 02:29 PM (0q2P7)
George Orwell - "He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past."
"Whoever controls the media, controls the mind." - Jim Morrison
Posted by: wyntre at October 15, 2013 02:29 PM (xhCXk)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 02:29 PM (1RQeV)
Well this is getting worrisome, because I don't wish the country to actually default, and I can envision a scenario -- easily --where Reid and Obama flip the script and began making demands on the GOP to permit a CR hike, and they can get away with it, too, because the media will be claiming it's still the GOP holding things up.
They already have. They demanded a jettisoning of sequester after Ryan suggested a trade of that for SocSecurity talks, then sacrificed that for the one-year delay in the reinsurance tax the unions demanded but the Rats hadn't made an issue until last night.
Posted by: steveegg at October 15, 2013 02:29 PM (o44nj)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 15, 2013 02:29 PM (DmNpO)
Stop buying into the propaganda.
Posted by: ThomasD at October 15, 2013 02:29 PM (6CXX3)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 02:30 PM (1RQeV)
Posted by: SH at October 15, 2013 02:30 PM (85x54)
I'm not bashing Reagan, or the National Review, or William F. Buckley. I'm simply asking you what the hell we've gotten from any of them. Conservatives control nothing. We don't even control the Republican Party, never mind the House or the Senate. EVERY major Republican politician since Reagan has been a moderate/liberal. Not most, not many, ALL. Gingrich maybe might have been considered "conservative", but a) he retired in 1998, and b) he's since become somewhat of a laughingstock.
For the record, I listen to Reagan's speeches and cry for what was. I look at the Morning in America ad from 1984 and sob because it's midnight in America right now, and the sun ain't coming up anytime soon.
Posted by: WolfinNC at October 15, 2013 02:30 PM (Vvg+J)
-------------
Exactly.
I didn't vote for it, I haven't gotten any benefit from them--and yet, everyone is out there demanding I better pay for it or else?
Or else what?
I'll have to pay even more money than the money I can't even pay now?
Gee, you're really fcuking putting the fear to me now.
Posted by: RoyalOil at October 15, 2013 02:30 PM (VjL9S)
Posted by: exdem13 at October 15, 2013 02:30 PM (kfSXj)
Posted by: Mama winger on that iPad thingies at October 15, 2013 02:30 PM (P6QsQ)
...and who cares about the 'Market' reaction? Really?
Is the market concerned that it is riding a giant, unsupported bubble over the 13K mark?
Quantitative Easing is no different than the Pseudo-Default we are discussing.
Posted by: garrett at October 15, 2013 02:30 PM (xn2mZ)
Posted by: mongo78 at October 15, 2013 02:30 PM (amCAe)
America has sustained a fatal blow. This happened in 2008. Like all large beasts it take a good long while before we bleed out. This part we are in now is just the hectic spurts of energy before we find a quiet dark place to lay down. This could go on for some years but America is mortally wounded. I am sorry about that. You can all scream about Teabaggers and Rinos but you need to focus your attention on who struck the deadly blow to begin with.
Your own countrymen did it with a fucking smile on their face. They don't give a shit. Even now, they rub their hands in glee at our undoing. I was busy working, obeying the law, being a good citizen, paying my bills and my taxes and trying to be a good husband and father. I never saw the fatal blow coming. It came just the same.
Posted by: Sgt. Fury at October 15, 2013 02:31 PM (Amk6p)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 02:31 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at October 15, 2013 02:31 PM (0HooB)
Posted by: Golfman in NC at October 15, 2013 02:31 PM (zg42c)
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 06:01 PM
Come on, just say it to conservatives already, you know you want to say "fuck off and die, you're killing my law practice!!!"
SAY IT!!! SAY IT!!!!
Posted by: zombie Sam Kinnison at October 15, 2013 02:31 PM (aTXUx)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 15, 2013 02:31 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 15, 2013 06:27 PM (/kU/5)
It is, in fact, the eventually part that scares me.
We have racked up a fair number of bills not technically counted as "Debt" that not paying would in fact send us into a bit of a spiral.
I'm fine with the continued shutdown, but I'm less certain about the debt ceiling.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 15, 2013 02:31 PM (GaqMa)
Posted by: steevy at October 15, 2013 02:31 PM (9XBK2)
Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at October 15, 2013 02:31 PM (yz6yg)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 02:32 PM (a6O1A)
"Oops"?
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 06:17 PM (n/+FT)
There is going to be a major market disaster. The whole thing is a scam based on money printing by the fed and ending the practice of Mark to Market (valuing assets at what they're currently selling for). Unless you believe everyone is twice as profitable now as they were during the 2009 lows.
Posted by: Methos at October 15, 2013 02:32 PM (hO9ad)
Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at October 15, 2013 02:32 PM (+lsX1)
===========
So we can rely upon the brilliant perpetual funding power of your nuclear mind to pay for all this shit?
'Cause that's the non-crazy, rational thing to do.
Posted by: RoyalOil at October 15, 2013 02:32 PM (VjL9S)
Posted by: Inspector Asshole at October 15, 2013 02:32 PM (RpKPD)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 15, 2013 02:32 PM (uj8Oa)
Just for clarity and just for you Packer soldier.
Go fuck your stupid assed cockholster self you john McCain cocksucking son of a bitch.
Posted by: maddogg at October 15, 2013 02:33 PM (xWW96)
Posted by: The one who does not bring at October 15, 2013 02:33 PM (ZlHlc)
Posted by: angel with a sword at October 15, 2013 02:33 PM (hpgw1)
Posted by: steevy at October 15, 2013 02:33 PM (9XBK2)
Posted by: ConcealedKerry or SubMitt at October 15, 2013 02:33 PM (uUXp6)
Unfortunately, the collapse of this latest plan will only embolden the Senate Rs. Instead of forcing Reid to take another vote, a faction of House Rs just helped reinforce stereotypes by killing a potential offer that was crafted with their input and that they were mostly united around only this morning. Another repeat of Plan B.
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at October 15, 2013 02:33 PM (YjDyJ)
* golf clap *
Posted by: On the back 9 at October 15, 2013 02:34 PM (Dwehj)
Posted by: Captain Hate on his iPhone at October 15, 2013 02:34 PM (rOP9q)
Cheer up Owl...
you'll get to hear McCain warbling "my friends my friends?" when it all falls apart...
you know from twitter I'm more light hearted there than here.
It's gonna implode and Obama was crafted his whole life to be the causative.
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 02:34 PM (9jfyN)
Posted by: Crude at October 15, 2013 02:34 PM (grXXA)
Posted by: hello, it's me also a creep-assed cracka.. at October 15, 2013 06:00 PM (9+ccr)
I agree. Therefore, the GOP should ignore the prospect of bad press; rather, the certainty of bad press, and do the right thing in all instances. I understand John McCain was shocked in 2008 when the media turned on him, including some reporters and network executive-types he considered personal friends. That he was surprised at all says worlds about his lack of awareness of the true state of national affairs and--had we known about it earlier--would've disqualified him as a Republican candidate for any higher office.
Posted by: troyriser at October 15, 2013 02:34 PM (O66NZ)
Posted by: The Political YAFfer at October 15, 2013 02:34 PM (Vk2pI)
Posted by: packsoldier at October 15, 2013 02:34 PM (L9/C8)
Posted by: Dan at October 15, 2013 02:35 PM (m3gf3)
Wall Street whores have been making money off of the devaluing of our dollar.
They don't care about what it's doing to us 'little people'.
Fuck em.
Posted by: wheatie at October 15, 2013 02:35 PM (7CgKa)
Posted by: ace
Which branch is the Treasury under?
The government would also be in "technical default" if it didn't send out SS payments on time or for the full amount, or pay contractors money promised, or meet payroll, etc.
That's, I think, more problematic than you're realizing, as far as credit rating.
Posted by: ace
Default = not servicing debt. Period.
Here's that notorious rabid right-wing group, Moody's, just last week:
"We believe the government would continue to pay interest and principal on its debt even in the event that the debt limit is not raised, leaving its creditworthiness intact,” the memo says. “The debt limit restricts government expenditures to the amount of its incoming revenues; it does not prohibit the government from servicing its debt. There is no direct connection between the debt limit (actually the exhaustion of the Treasury’s extraordinary measures to raise funds) and a default.”
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at October 15, 2013 02:35 PM (Qy3YA)
Posted by: soothie at October 15, 2013 02:35 PM (+uYqz)
Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at October 15, 2013 02:35 PM (vd7A8)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 02:36 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 02:36 PM (/IWYB)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 15, 2013 06:29 PM (DmNpO)
**********************************************
I am speaking of *all* the ones who did (and there were plenty). Anyone who didn't doesn't belong in to the group to which I refer.
Posted by: Dancing Queen at October 15, 2013 02:36 PM (FDGeg)
So am I, but I'm dying to find out what actually happens. Will O and friends really let the whole thing auger in if they don't get their woobie? 100% of everything they want? Well if that's the case, we need to pull the plug on this operation because we can never prevail against someone who will go all the way if we won't.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b7bgtu2O4E
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 02:36 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 02:37 PM (1RQeV)
Posted by: packsoldier at October 15, 2013 06:34 PM (L9/C
-----------
Guess I'll just have to put on a sweater, lock up the cat, and go in your place then.
Posted by: mama winger at October 15, 2013 02:37 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: maddogg at October 15, 2013 02:37 PM (xWW96)
Posted by: Maximilien François Marie Isidore de Robespierre at October 15, 2013 02:37 PM (Vk2pI)
Reid: Say John, wanna have a contest to see who can hit softest?
Boehner: Sure thing! You go first!
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at October 15, 2013 02:38 PM (kdS6q)
Posted by: packsoldier at October 15, 2013 06:34 PM (L9/C
TeaTards? Right. Now excuse me while I question your nick, REMF.
Posted by: troyriser at October 15, 2013 02:38 PM (O66NZ)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at October 15, 2013 02:38 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: Schrödinger's cat [/i] at October 15, 2013 02:38 PM (U2UQk)
Posted by: Trotsky at October 15, 2013 02:38 PM (1RQeV)
Posted by: packsoldier at October 15, 2013 06:34 PM (L9/C
Then involve yourself in the primaries fully.
Otherwise, STFU.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 15, 2013 02:38 PM (GaqMa)
Posted by: Newt Gingrich at October 15, 2013 02:38 PM (Yy2ZT)
I think that's my point. Ronald Reagan scored two of the biggest landslides in American history, and even HE didn't have a "free hand" to implement conservatism.
But every liberal president elected over the last 100 years had not only been considered to have a mandate, but acted upon it, and we are still feeling those effects. We still have the New Deal and the Great Society hanging around our necks. We will go forward with Obamacare as long as we can stand.
What huge accomplishment, akin to those do we have from Reagan's 8 years besides the nice memories?
Posted by: WolfinNC at October 15, 2013 02:38 PM (Vvg+J)
Think will go back to sniffing glue, using plastic filler, sanding with files, and inhaling paint fumes due to the airbrush. Much safer than here.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 15, 2013 02:39 PM (uj8Oa)
You must be one of them "legislative arsonists" about whom I've heard so much.
Got a light?
Posted by: Jaws at October 15, 2013 02:39 PM (Rbtz3)
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 02:39 PM (/IWYB)
Not to put too fine a point on it, but YES! If that's the most rightward electable candidate, that's the best you're going to get. Politics is not about instant satisfaction. If you want that, go jerk off in the corner. Politics is about making the best choices for the future.
Mike Castle is a prick. But had he been elected to the Senate, he would have voted for a Republican for majority leader, and could have been counted on for some votes. As it stands, Chris Coons owes us nothing and has been voting against us constantly since he was elected. Did Delaware Republicans make the right choice in COD?
Posted by: Lou at October 15, 2013 02:39 PM (VrJUC)
Ace I'm not a revolutionary I am a person who grasps the dangers we face and knows half measures ain't gonna fix this.
Anyway whatever what you want, I want, or 49.1% or so of the country wants means nothing this is ALL about what Ogabe and the M$M want bud.
Welcome to the American Socialist State 'cause the Republic died in 2007.
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 02:39 PM (9jfyN)
Which side do you perceive to be conducting the revolution?
Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at October 15, 2013 02:39 PM (+lsX1)
Posted by: SH at October 15, 2013 02:39 PM (2o9a+)
Posted by: LASue at October 15, 2013 02:39 PM (vtZtI)
I just want you to know that. Totally insane. God help me, I'm scared that a substantial number of people around here might agree with you. That moment when you look around and realize that you really are surrounded by crazy people.
But I don't think think that most agree with you. I think you're out on a limb here.
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 06:23 PM (n/+FT)
Probably. And I'm jerking your chain a little.
But I would like to see you make the moral case for children paying the debts of their parents. Just for shits and giggles. And if you think that's avoidable, how you think trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see plays out mathematically.
I suppose if you think you can print all the money it takes to do that without ever seeing a consequence, that would be the rational way to go.
Posted by: Methos at October 15, 2013 02:39 PM (hO9ad)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 15, 2013 02:39 PM (a4Omg)
Posted by: An innocent icepick at October 15, 2013 02:39 PM (Vk2pI)
Posted by: steevy at October 15, 2013 02:39 PM (9XBK2)
Posted by: angel with a sword at October 15, 2013 02:40 PM (hpgw1)
Posted by: imp at October 15, 2013 02:40 PM (L9AnB)
268 and I do not think that revolutions go the way revolutionaries wish them to.
history shows that the only group who has conducted a successful revolution in the past, and that's all of them....was the middle class standing up
so who is the pissed off group in the US now?
Posted by: navycopjoe at October 15, 2013 02:40 PM (nooa6)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 15, 2013 02:40 PM (DmNpO)
Nothing like a reckless tyrant who realizes he has the power to destroy the people and nothing more.
Posted by: Multitude at October 15, 2013 02:40 PM (mDuPc)
Posted by: Captain Hate on his iPhone at October 15, 2013 02:40 PM (rOP9q)
Has there been a 2X in income tax revenue I wasn't made aware of?
Counting FICA as "tax revenue" is pretty duplicitous since its just transfer payments. No, let me revise that -- counting FICA is a fucking propagandistic lie.
Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 15, 2013 02:40 PM (l5zzX)
Posted by: Clete Orris at October 15, 2013 02:41 PM (km4yN)
The House plan was to replace some of the discretionary spending cuts with mandatory ones.
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at October 15, 2013 02:41 PM (YjDyJ)
---------------
Yes. She is. There's a lot of that going around.
Forces of wickedness in high places.
Posted by: mama winger at October 15, 2013 02:41 PM (P6QsQ)
Hmm... five. Coons, Reid, Bennet, McCaskill, and Donnelly. Just enough.
Posted by: Lou at October 15, 2013 06:28 PM
Could you or any other "My GOP Right or Wrong" please tell me what the fuck they did when the HAD a majority?
Posted by: kbdabear at October 15, 2013 02:41 PM (aTXUx)
http://tinyurl.com/3t9358
See Table L.105.
At the end of 2008, that number was about $1.3 trillion, and that included $50 billion of TARP and about $200 million of excess cash. So assuming the amount that is truly needed for working capital is somewhere between $1 and 1.1 trillion, there is about $500 billion that can be raised by selling financial assets.
Who could buy it in a jiffy? Why, those folks who have been printing money by the billions to buy Treasury bonds for the last few years: the Fed. They are going to have to do something different, anyway -- at the current rate they're buying mortgage-backed securities, sometime in 2015-16 the Fed will own all the available mortgages in the country. Buying student loans and other Treasury receivables makes logical sense, assuming QE-infinity. Which is not a bad assumption, the way things are going.
To continue, there are literally thousands of potential oil, gas, and mineral leases that the Interior Department could put into the market. The biddable element on those is the bonus payment. That's right, up front cash to the Treasury (and then royalties later on if exploration is successful, and income taxes and jobs, too -- what a concept).
We haven't even started talking about the $3+ trillion of property, plant, and equipment owned by Uncle Sam -- and that $3 trillion is book value, not market value. Who knows what some of that is worth. Might have to squeeze some bureaucrats into smaller offices or make them share, but I think we and they could manage.
And all that is just on the balance sheet, without even looking at actually reducing expenses. We are a long, long, long way from default. Could be years, if properly managed.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at October 15, 2013 02:41 PM (HubSo)
I believe you're making my point better than I did. Progressives control the lyrics and the melody. We just try to change the tempo once in a while and usually don't succeed.
Posted by: WolfinNC at October 15, 2013 02:42 PM (Vvg+J)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 15, 2013 02:42 PM (ZPrif)
Well, I guess I will be in the minority here, but I want Obama to default. At least temporarily. I want him to choose to tell the Treasury not to pay the public debt first.
Yes, I know, plagues and locusts and frogs and such. Oh my.
Guess what, future debt might not come so easily. I'm fine with that.
Oh btw, get some cash out of the bank if you think it might actually happen. I don't think it will.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 15, 2013 02:42 PM (N8z9m)
=============
'Cause they weren't rioting over at the Wally World recently?
The Mongols are here.
You're just buying them off for a time with money stolen from you and your kids by a government you didn't vote for that doesn't represent you.
And your money will run out.
The timing is up to you.
Posted by: RoyalOil at October 15, 2013 02:42 PM (VjL9S)
Right and this Free Shit Army nation will revert back to a controlled Constitutional Republic if we just nominate Bernie Sanders or his bastard son Chrispy Chreme.....
when the United States Government goes full totalitarian it will be the worst the world has seen in modern times.
You think King Putt of the National Parks won't be playing with your medical when he has total control Cochran?
I understand who he is.
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 02:42 PM (9jfyN)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 15, 2013 02:43 PM (a4Omg)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at October 15, 2013 02:43 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 02:43 PM (/IWYB)
Update: "Dead."
Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your debt-ceiling deal here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead.
Posted by: Miracle Max at October 15, 2013 02:43 PM (TIIx5)
Posted by: SH at October 15, 2013 02:43 PM (0SHei)
What that when things became really uncomfortable for our side, or problematic for the dems the narrative would be written that we were playing right into Democrat plans? Well... yeah we knew that. I'd be surprised if they didn't have this in the cooker right now.
This little game, I have to say. Is absolutely fascinating.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 02:43 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 02:43 PM (/IWYB)
Just keep that in mind as the American Cow decides it is tired of being milked to death. I'm kinda curious to see if the prediction of that EBT toting fella in LA is right when he predicted yesterday that there will be Rodney King style riots if the EBTs quit working.
Posted by: GnuBreed at October 15, 2013 02:43 PM (wNF3N)
The Mongols are here.
You're just buying them off for a time with money stolen from you and your kids by a government you didn't vote for that doesn't represent you.
And your money will run out.
--------------
Words that are true.
Posted by: mama winger at October 15, 2013 02:43 PM (P6QsQ)
========
I want that country--my country--back.
But we are running out of people who remember that country; what it was like to be free.
Posted by: RoyalOil at October 15, 2013 02:43 PM (VjL9S)
Posted by: Scott M at October 15, 2013 02:43 PM (V+Pcp)
I love comments like these that imply that a majority is actually bad for conservatives, so we should oppose a majority.
It gives a lot of credence to the theory that True Conservatism is a shadow operation formed by the destroyed remnants of ACORN to destroy the GOP from within.
Posted by: Lou at October 15, 2013 02:44 PM (VrJUC)
Posted by: Dan at October 15, 2013 02:44 PM (m3gf3)
Posted by: Jeffrey Pelt at October 15, 2013 02:44 PM (Jsiw/)
Posted by: navycopjoe at October 15, 2013 02:44 PM (nooa6)
Posted by: steevy at October 15, 2013 02:45 PM (9XBK2)
Posted by: soothie at October 15, 2013 02:45 PM (+uYqz)
Posted by: Golfman in NC at October 15, 2013 02:45 PM (zg42c)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 15, 2013 02:45 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: Inspector Asshole at October 15, 2013 02:45 PM (RpKPD)
289...Socialism tends to advance during periods of extreme hardship and fear -- not during periods of comfort and confidence.
Actually, Ace...it sneaks in on little cat feet during times of comfort and confidence.
Socialism creeps in unnoticed during good times, under the guise of "helping the poor" and "fairness".
Posted by: wheatie at October 15, 2013 02:45 PM (7CgKa)
----------------
oh for the love of pete
Posted by: mama winger at October 15, 2013 02:45 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 15, 2013 02:45 PM (a4Omg)
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 06:39 PM (/IWYB)
Never let a crisis go to waste, right ?
Posted by: The Jackhole at October 15, 2013 02:45 PM (nTgAI)
with money appropriated by Congress for that purpose. He doesn't service the debt out of the Government Money Pile. the money is appropriated by congress, then disbursed.
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 06:16 PM (/IWYB)
If memory serves, the money to service the debt has been automatically and permanently appropriated, and is not subject to the annual, or any other, appropriations process.
Posted by: steveegg at October 15, 2013 02:45 PM (o44nj)
Regarding your point on polls. If you and I know that these polls are bought and paid for, are we really supposed to believe that paid political consultants that have multiple degrees in political science from excellent colleges don't? I can tell BS when I see it, but Mitch McConnell and John Boehner can't?
Posted by: WolfinNC at October 15, 2013 02:45 PM (Vvg+J)
Until Romney's vote count exceeds McCain's.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 02:46 PM (0q2P7)
Well, yeah, and our currently borrowed sum would suddenly be much more expensive.
this isn't true. the bonds were sold at a set rate. that is what the government pays. most of the issue is conflating government spending and default (as if sending the park service home would trigger a credit event).
Posted by: rich@gmu at October 15, 2013 02:46 PM (ga+7c)
Posted by: Dan at October 15, 2013 02:46 PM (m3gf3)
Posted by: navycopjoe at October 15, 2013 06:44 PM (nooa6)
------------------
Hey now.
Posted by: mama winger at October 15, 2013 02:46 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at October 15, 2013 02:46 PM (Ewhzn)
"Now it's time for Super Duper Vitter, in which staffers are tied to a post and whipped."
Posted by: packsoldier at October 15, 2013 02:46 PM (L9/C8)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 02:46 PM (a6O1A)
I don't see how people can say we are the unreasonable ones here, and why some people believe this shutdown (or some shutdown) wasn't a foregone conclusion.
Newsflash: Obama thinks he can win everything in a shutdown, so of course he's gonna go for one.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 15, 2013 02:46 PM (uhAkr)
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 02:47 PM (/IWYB)
Posted by: Humungus at October 15, 2013 02:47 PM (zeWyX)
Posted by: Fudgepackersoldier at October 15, 2013 02:47 PM (/1ATA)
Posted by: navycopjoe at October 15, 2013 02:47 PM (nooa6)
All the House had to do was pass a plan in order to force Reid to take a tough vote. Leadership spent hours asking members what they could and could not support and most members seemed united around the result. Some of the dissatisfied members asked for changes, and changes were made, but obviously not enough for a small but important group of people. Now leadership has to regroup while Reid has McConnell right where he wants him.
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at October 15, 2013 02:48 PM (YjDyJ)
I want him to choose to tell the Treasury not to pay the public debt first.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 15, 2013 06:42 PM (N8z9m
He won't. He'll just declare the debt ceiling to have been raised without a vote and nobody will do shit about it. The MSM will all orgasm at his gutsy call.
Posted by: burmatar at October 15, 2013 02:48 PM (maI4C)
Which is why it is better to shrug and let them get their donkey on....
right now Kos is hiding behind "hey Tinkerbell can't fly because the Teahadists are not clapping" and the McCain gang is selling us out so the donks win anyway....
take the hit, shrug let the mules get their donkey on while there are still enough of us who know what we are supposed to be extant....
every day we lose good Americans that are being replaced with little Bill Ayersans being willfully maleducated by the NEA.
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 02:48 PM (9jfyN)
--------------
You're a scamp, you are.
Posted by: mama winger at October 15, 2013 02:48 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: SH at October 15, 2013 02:48 PM (WY3bD)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at October 15, 2013 02:48 PM (GEICT)
I'd be forever grateful if you'd call my East of the Rockies Hotline this evening.
Posted by: George Snoory at October 15, 2013 02:48 PM (Dwehj)
Honestly, government by crisis, tearing each other apart every few months because 'OMGELEVENTY!!!' has been wearing me out. DC will not solve this mess, so I'm just accepting our fate and chilling the fuck out. I get everyone's arguments, but it's hard for me to get passionate about either side when I know it's all just theater.
Posted by: mugiwara at October 15, 2013 02:48 PM (hpYnL)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 02:49 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: Jeffrey Pelt at October 15, 2013 02:49 PM (Jsiw/)
I don't know that the obamacare disaster will ever be focused on. It will be ignored or blamed on the repubs by the msm even with the name being obamacare.
They will find something else to focus on.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 15, 2013 02:49 PM (N8z9m)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 15, 2013 02:49 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: imp at October 15, 2013 02:50 PM (L9AnB)
Worried about all the TeaTards who are gonna stay home in 2016?
Posted by: packsoldier
Speaking of staying home.
Me.
With ur Mom.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at October 15, 2013 02:50 PM (kdS6q)
In my wildest dreams, I didn't think it would be this much of a fucking disaster already.
I'd like to try to talk you down, Ace. Please try not to panic. Have a little faith that TFG has finally overplayed his hand, as all tyrants eventually do.
Me and B'Gal live on her SS. If anyone has cause to panic, it's us. And we're not panicked.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at October 15, 2013 02:50 PM (0HooB)
Posted by: steevy at October 15, 2013 02:50 PM (9XBK2)
Posted by: The Hobo Hooker, Friend Of Farmer Yoon,Wears Prada at October 15, 2013 02:50 PM (GxM1n)
Until Romney's vote count exceeds McCain's.
strange having this argument else where:
Romney 60 932 176
McCain 59 950 323
It was the moderates that stayed home. Elections have consequences, we needed another 4 years to learn our lesson.
Posted by: rich@gmu at October 15, 2013 02:50 PM (ga+7c)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 15, 2013 02:50 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: JackStraw at October 15, 2013 02:51 PM (g1DWB)
That said, we're sort of betting a lot of Barry Obama's character, aren't we? Like we seem to think, simultaneously, he's an evil Machiavellian socialist, and also that he wouldn't rather gladly wreck the global economy for the sake of socialism.
Posted by: ace
I don't. I'm still on Team Incompetent.
He and the ruling class on the Left are only socialist in mode not practice. It's the path of least resistance for the power hungry. This is about growing the size and scope of the state for the benefit of a select few.
He's just not that good at it and it's not as easy as it sounds in a country that still has a least a perfunctory constitution and legal system.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at October 15, 2013 02:51 PM (Qy3YA)
What?
====
I think the Dems figure that Boehner would back down against a veto threat. I think that's a dare the House should accept.
I wonder if there's a Lonegan internal poll floating around?
Posted by: mrp at October 15, 2013 02:51 PM (HjPtV)
Jesus fucking wept. And I'm sure some people are celebrating here.
Question for those people: what kind of deal are you holding out for? What would be acceptable to you? Does said deal strike you as one that could be plausibly reached, based on what's currently on the table?
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 02:51 PM (n/+FT)
The futures so bright I gotta wear a hockey mask.
Posted by: Humungus at October 15, 2013 06:47 PM (zeWyX)
Hey, I'm just looking forward to the apockeyclipse, mainly for NOT being judged for wearing assless chaps in public.
And yeah, you homoerotic outerwear pedants, I know that all chaps are assless.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at October 15, 2013 02:51 PM (TIIx5)
So you're saying it'll burn anyway, but don't say it out loud because, you know, it might burn?
Posted by: Jaws at October 15, 2013 02:52 PM (Rbtz3)
Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 15, 2013 02:52 PM (HVff2)
Posted by: Gabes Fabulously Fabulous Stylist at October 15, 2013 02:52 PM (Cs2tJ)
edhenryTV
Staffers roll in 21 boxes of pizza for House GOP leadership, per @ChadPergram #longnight
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at October 15, 2013 02:52 PM (Qy3YA)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at October 15, 2013 02:52 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 06:43 PM
I said that last week that we'd be better off waving it through since the LIVs don't concern themselves with anything other than "what's on tv tonight"
Obamacare yanks the LIV's off the couch and kicks them in the junk repeatedly.
Maybe this was all to make it very obvious WHO tried to stop it when the LIVs find out they got a huge turd for their $500 to $3000 per month
Posted by: kbdabear at October 15, 2013 02:52 PM (aTXUx)
So the obvious question is then, why not just buy some polls of your own to rally your side?
What, Gallup doesn't think Boehner's money is green?
I'm going somewhere with this... mostly because I'm sick and tired of fighting this same stupid war that we never win... and I'm saying that they WANT to lose. They never intended on winning, and in fact, aren't allowed to.
Posted by: WolfinNC at October 15, 2013 02:52 PM (Vvg+J)
>>>It gives a lot of credence to the theory that True Conservatism is a shadow operation formed by the destroyed remnants of ACORN to destroy the GOP from within.
Arguement conflation. The argument is, in majority the Republicans perform....poorly. I see it as an argument to beat the shit out of Republicans to get them used to doing the right things if not for the right reasons then because they fear punishment. I will tell you right now. I don't want another Bush/Hastert/Frist cycle. All it does is delay the inevitable. And I'm done with that as being a desirable outcome. Either reverse it, or LIB. No more slow it down.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 02:53 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Brother Cavil and his Flying Toaster Circus at October 15, 2013 02:53 PM (m9V0o)
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea [/i][/s][/b][/u] at October 15, 2013 02:53 PM (CA2NO)
Posted by: Inspector Asshole at October 15, 2013 02:53 PM (RpKPD)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 15, 2013 06:50 PM (ZPrif)
----------
No need to get personal here, Joe.
Posted by: mama winger at October 15, 2013 02:53 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at October 15, 2013 06:46 PM (Ewhzn
*****************************************
When the time comes, we will be ready.
I don't see a huge meltdown. I just see that the Federal government will have to stop doing some things that it currently does, and lay some people off, and cut back on some transfer payments. That can either happen in an orderly way (as it might have if Romney had been elected) or in a chaotic, crisis way (which is more likely with Choom Gang in charge).
When the Feds stop doing everything they're doing, the states will be expected to step in. Some (blue) will and some (red) won't. Kind of like Medicaid expansion or Obamacare exchanges. We will be sorted out. The blue states will continue to go broke even faster, lose jobs to the red states, and be unable to support the nonproductive in the manner to which they have become accustomed. The result will be riots in urban areas, increased crime, and further downward spiral. There will be refugees coming from urban areas to red states.
In the end, federal and blue state bankruptcy and the remaking of the compact is inevitable. This will play out over the next couple of decades.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at October 15, 2013 02:53 PM (HubSo)
Posted by: Crude at October 15, 2013 02:54 PM (grXXA)
Honk if you're hiding a legit recovery...
which you aren't...
Ogabe makes energy more expensive, US labor less competitive and you say "what me worry?"
Don't worry....
I'm sure Math and Fate spend a lot of time worrying about you landing on your feet.
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 02:54 PM (9jfyN)
Posted by: A Snotty French Waiter That Looks Suspiciously Like Barack Obama With A Mustache at October 15, 2013 02:54 PM (DLu2s)
Posted by: Gabes Fabulously Fabulous Stylist at October 15, 2013 02:54 PM (Cs2tJ)
Question for those people: what kind of deal are you holding out for? What would be acceptable to you? Does said deal strike you as one that could be plausibly reached, based on what's currently on the table?
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 06:51 PM (n/+FT)
Jeff, are you paying attention? Obama would have vetoed this deal. He doesn't want to deal. He wants to hit the debt ceiling.
There's no point surrendering to a guy who said he wants to metaphorically kill us all.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 15, 2013 02:54 PM (uhAkr)
Posted by: John at October 15, 2013 02:55 PM (SKVqk)
Posted by: Countrysquire at October 15, 2013 02:55 PM (dACAx)
ugggh, guys, packsoldier isn't a troll, he's been here for a while
granted you may disagree with what he posted but at least he stuck around to argue his case
point and laugh, give him his asskicking but the i'm banging your mom shit is way over the top
Posted by: navycopjoe at October 15, 2013 02:56 PM (nooa6)
The funny thing is, you can't even guarantee that a liberal republican will vote for a Republican majority leader. Several of them ended up switching parties in the past when it seemed convenient for them to do so.
Vote for Obama...and me! - Linda McMahon, GOP candidate for Senate.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 15, 2013 02:56 PM (uhAkr)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 15, 2013 02:56 PM (aDwsi)
Posted by: toby928© at October 15, 2013 02:56 PM (QupBk)
Unlike all this abstract budget crap the public really doesn't understand, O-care is self-focusing.
People understand their rates going up 2X-3X, cuz that money isn't abstract.
The letters about rate hikes are very real, the sticker shock signing up is very real. Their coming to the realization it was all a pack of lies is very real...and we're just at the beginning...
just give this clusterfuck another 12 months of soak time in the public consciousness and the good time are really gonna begin
Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 15, 2013 02:56 PM (l5zzX)
Morons and moronettes, that is what we're up against. These fuckers do not play around and we're trying to nail shit to the side of an outhouse.
When you put Preezy Stompyfeet's words and actions in context with his narcissism, his past influences, the Marxist teachers, Stompy wins either way. Tails, Obamacare, in all of is ignominity, gets implemented. Heads, he presides over some seriously uncharted fiscal territory. What better rush for a malignant sociopathic narcissist.
We all know that we will not default on Thursday. Fedzilla takes in plenty of cash to service our debt. But considering Stompy has wiped his shitty ass with Constitution the past 5 years, does anyone really think he'll honor the 14th Amendment come Friday morning? Do you really think Boner and Triple Chin will do anything when Stompy decides "let me be clear, the 14th Amendment is old and doesn't apply to these extraordinary times....".
Stompy will inflict as much pain as possible; no SS payments, no VA payments, double-down on parks, etc..... and maybe, just maybe he'll pay our Chinese friends a little. But don't think for a minute that these Marxist fucks haven't wargamed this out. They live for chaos and they have been itching for this moment since 1/20/08. What else can explain the complete reversal of Stompy on deal after deal after deal. He wants Thursday to come and go, to see what happens and if chaos begins to emerge, he'll seize the day like all good little Marxist dictators do.
Posted by: TehAdmiral at October 15, 2013 02:56 PM (1LMZ9)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 02:57 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: SH at October 15, 2013 02:57 PM (9ek7+)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at October 15, 2013 02:57 PM (Ewhzn)
Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at October 15, 2013 02:57 PM (E8IHS)
Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at October 15, 2013 02:57 PM (yz6yg)
Posted by: RWC at October 15, 2013 02:57 PM (narlV)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 15, 2013 02:57 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 06:43 PM
You mean the same media that will present Tommy Xtopher to us as a shining example of those who are benefitting from Obamacare?
My God man, would you ENJOY watching Tommy turn blue and flop around like a squirrel caught in a high tension power line when his ticker goes?
Posted by: kbdabear at October 15, 2013 02:58 PM (aTXUx)
Posted by: soothie at October 15, 2013 02:58 PM (+uYqz)
If Obama wants to veto a bill that gives him 90% of what he wants, then let him. There's no way to win under that scenario. Pass a bill, send it to the Senate, and make it clear that you're done playing games.
In other words, call his bluff.
Posted by: Sticky Wicket at October 15, 2013 02:58 PM (sCynV)
So please, for the love of god, get your State governments to secede and do it today before the rest of us drown in your sewer.
Charlie Rangel, is that you again?
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at October 15, 2013 02:58 PM (0HooB)
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at October 15, 2013 02:58 PM (oFCZn)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 02:58 PM (a6O1A)
Challenge accepted.
You unfetter the Coal and Shale belt from your asshatted EPA and it'll be on like Donkey Kong
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 02:58 PM (9jfyN)
Fine. Then LET HIM BE THE ONE WHO VETOES THE DEAL. It's on him at that point, and then suddenly we win the optics game at the very least.
But seriously? C'mon. Of course Obama would have signed this deal if it had passed the GOP House and the Dem Senate to arrive at his desk. What, you think he's going to veto a bipartisan bill and force the nation into default? Nah, that sort of "I will veto [X]" language is used by Presidents all the time, from time immemorial, and always put away if the President's hand is forced.
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 02:58 PM (n/+FT)
-------------
Southern? I'm sorry. You must have skipped right over that whole Wisconsin thing. You know, the conservatively run State with the 780 million dollar budget surplus that is now going to give people their taxes back into their pockets.. The State that said NO to you guys, and prospered.
Posted by: mama winger at October 15, 2013 02:58 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: toby928© at October 15, 2013 02:59 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at October 15, 2013 02:59 PM (MhA4j)
Posted by: Alf767 at October 15, 2013 02:59 PM (C26bh)
399...Posted by: John at October 15, 2013 06:55 PM (SKVqk)
This John is full of turds.
Time to flush.
Posted by: wheatie at October 15, 2013 02:59 PM (7CgKa)
At last you've heard our wishes! You asked for it so don't get all pissy when we do it.
Don't start nothing / won't be nothing.
Lie back and think of Marx as the FSA consumes you.
Posted by: Jaws at October 15, 2013 02:59 PM (Rbtz3)
This, from someone standing neck-deep in his own shit.
Posted by: George Snoory at October 15, 2013 02:59 PM (Dwehj)
And it's that sense of Overwhelming Certainty that betrays it as an irrational lizard brain thought.
The crazy man with the End is Near sign strapped to his chest is not someone to emulate.
Good then we don't have to make a deal because there is no certainty of a huge problem if we don't, and anyone who suggests otherwise it teh stoopid scaremonger. I love this game. Let's play more!
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 03:00 PM (0q2P7)
By denying the House's Constitutional mandate to approve spending, Obama is seizing the power of another branch. This IS a Constitutional crisis. Levin's first half hour was epic, as usual, but he also had audio of Cali's Tom McClintock spelling out how dire the situation is with the petulant Boy-King and the tyranny inherent with this president.
Meanwhile, Soros subversives have rewritten a "new American history" printed that's like nothing you ever learned in school. Beck mentioned the site tonight and is showcasing the book Thursday night. This is the website of the crew responsible for rewriting America's founding: http://bit.ly/168FdjZ
Posted by: RushBabe at October 15, 2013 03:00 PM (hrIP5)
Vote for Obama...and me! - Linda McMahon, GOP candidate for Senate.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk
Kiss me, I'm a DemocratRepublicanDemocrat!
Posted by: Arlen Specter
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at October 15, 2013 03:00 PM (kdS6q)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at October 15, 2013 03:00 PM (GEICT)
429 All trolls are Average Joe.
come on toby, you have to finish it
All trolls are Average Joe who............
Posted by: navycopjoe at October 15, 2013 03:00 PM (nooa6)
Posted by: Chris at October 15, 2013 03:00 PM (aBOfW)
Posted by: RWC at October 15, 2013 03:01 PM (narlV)
It wouldn't have passed the Dem Senate. It would have been another CR passed by the House that died there. Like the Delay bill. Remember? The Delay bill? That was awesome and not extreme? That would avert a shutdown?
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 15, 2013 03:01 PM (uhAkr)
Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 15, 2013 03:01 PM (HVff2)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 15, 2013 03:01 PM (a4Omg)
Posted by: Captain Hate on his iPhone at October 15, 2013 03:02 PM (rOP9q)
Posted by: kbdabear at October 15, 2013 06:58 PM (aTXUx)
trick question? I'm not sure if its yes, or YES in bigger letters.
Posted by: Berserker at October 15, 2013 03:02 PM (FMbng)
=====
That, plus more. Millions of American were kicked off superior policies by their employers and told to buy f*cking "metal" plan instead. People are working 2-3 part-time job with no benefits because of ObamaCare. If the president vetoes the House bill because of the Vitter component, all hell is going to break loose.
Posted by: mrp at October 15, 2013 03:02 PM (HjPtV)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 03:02 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: steevy at October 15, 2013 06:50 PM (9XBK2)
In fairness, that's not entirely true.
Ponzi schemes fall apart when someone figures out they aren't getting what they were promised and tries to get it before everyone else, and there's too many someones for the ongoing fools to pay for. So pretending all is well can extend the scam, for an indeterminate period.
Posted by: Methos at October 15, 2013 03:02 PM (hO9ad)
Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at October 15, 2013 03:02 PM (yz6yg)
Posted by: someguy at October 15, 2013 03:02 PM (8XRrT)
HAHAHAHA keep on empowering McCain to yank the football Charlie Brown....
Cochran I am preparing, and I am quitting.
Time to get my pound of flesh from the McCain gang who made all this shit possible.
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 03:03 PM (9jfyN)
Posted by: exdem13 at October 15, 2013 03:03 PM (kfSXj)
Not saying this is a recipe for GOP success, but we've gone this far, why not enjoy the show.
Posted by: McAdams at October 15, 2013 03:03 PM (p1jSk)
Posted by: The Hobo Hooker, Friend Of Farmer Yoon,Wears Prada at October 15, 2013 03:03 PM (GxM1n)
Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 15, 2013 03:03 PM (HVff2)
Posted by: toby928© at October 15, 2013 03:04 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: Chris at October 15, 2013 03:04 PM (aBOfW)
Posted by: MTF at October 15, 2013 03:04 PM (C26bh)
So to all you people worried we might make some disastrous decision now, how do you think this all plays out in ten years? If the implications of some political "default" scares you now, you're all going to have to be sedated around the clock in the near future.
Posted by: lowandslow at October 15, 2013 03:04 PM (APJIX)
Posted by: Captain Hate on his iPhone at October 15, 2013 07:02 PM (rOP9q)
evening Captain Hate, nice to bump into you over here.
Posted by: rich@gmu at October 15, 2013 03:05 PM (ga+7c)
Posted by: Brother Cavil and his Flying Toaster Circus at October 15, 2013 03:05 PM (m9V0o)
Posted by: Extremely grumpy momma bear at October 15, 2013 03:05 PM (Bs+hv)
OK. I'm tired of fighting, but I'm still willing. Tell me what I'm supposed to do.
My "representatives" don't represent me, my peers think my political beliefs are a joke, and anyone who agrees with me will usually qualify any support with something like "but I'm too busy to do anything".
The government is rolling out a program that doubles or triples everyone's healthcare, makes it illegal not to buy it, and yet STILL no one says anything. Obama refuses to negotiate, but it's the GOP's fault, no matter what.
Tell me how I win over that.
Posted by: WolfinNC at October 15, 2013 03:05 PM (Vvg+J)
Yup...
Sandy Fluke, and Tard Akin depressed the "I REALLY AM A FI CON but SOCIAL LIBERAL" types....
add in Mitt fucking Romney being portrayed as worse than Pat Buchanan and there you have it....
I am looking forward to the Mabriel Galor wing showing me what smart power looks like.... all I did was knock on doors in 6 cities to sell the Contract with America.
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 03:05 PM (9jfyN)
What do you think are Jim Jordan's chances for becoming Speaker is Boehner is forced to resign? I have a theory.
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at October 15, 2013 03:06 PM (YjDyJ)
Posted by: blaster at October 15, 2013 03:06 PM (4+AaH)
And it's that sense of Overwhelming Certainty that betrays it as an irrational lizard brain thought.
The crazy man with the End is Near sign strapped to his chest is not someone to emulate.
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 15, 2013 06:50 PM (ZPrif)
Okay, mister rational. Go look at a best fit line of deficits over the last century or so. Then explain to me how an exponential growth function like that can be continued indefinitely in the real world. And why no one else in the history of the world has managed to manage such a situation, but you'll be successful with your "bury your head in the sand" strategy.
Posted by: Methos at October 15, 2013 03:06 PM (hO9ad)
I have to say that ObamaCare is such a fucking disaster I really think we'd be better off with the spotlight on that.
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 06:43 PM
You believe the spotlight would be on Obamacare if there wasn't a shut down? That's so cute! They, the media, would be focusing on Obamacare success stories....rare though they might be...and the promises Obamacare offers us all.
They're not reporting on it's failures now, they won't suddenly start reporting on it's failures tomorrow. Even if the shutdown ends now, they'll still spend months covering the shutdown, the weather, the state of our nation's bridges, everything, and anything other than Obamacare . When they've chewed that wad of cud to paste, they'll find something else...anything else....to talk about other than Obamacare.
Don't buy into their bullshit.
Posted by: Sticky Wicket at October 15, 2013 03:06 PM (sCynV)
Now, I'm going to jump into an argument without really having gone back and seen the evolution, which is always hazardous, but . . .
You do realize that "illegal" and "impossible" are not synonyms, yes?
Posted by: filbert at October 15, 2013 03:06 PM (FUbuZ)
It's simple...
Default is a Choice.
If Barky decides to default...despite having plenty of money to pay the interest on our debt...it's on him.
Posted by: wheatie at October 15, 2013 03:07 PM (7CgKa)
Yup, and actually burning some stuff, too.
Posted by: Jaws at October 15, 2013 03:07 PM (Rbtz3)
Thanks.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 15, 2013 07:01 PM (a4Omg)
--------
Oh gosh! Where are you looking? Real estate in WI is pretty decently priced. You can get a lot for your money, ESPECIALLY if you stay out of college towns and away from Door County. Don't look in Dane, Milwaukee, or surrounding suburbs and you should be able to find affordable nice homes. Also don't look in the Lake Geneva area - too high. I can't think of any other areas offhand that should be out of the way expensive.
We'd love to have you!!
Posted by: mama winger at October 15, 2013 03:07 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: toby928© at October 15, 2013 03:07 PM (QupBk)
Everyone loves an underdog.
Posted by: The Jerk at October 15, 2013 03:08 PM (gQKHE)
Posted by: Merovign , Dark Lord of the Sith [/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at October 15, 2013 03:08 PM (qyfb5)
Posted by: rickl at October 15, 2013 03:08 PM (sdi6R)
I would only add that I loathe all of this and the MFM with every ounce of my being.
Posted by: eureka! at October 15, 2013 03:08 PM (hmMJD)
Posted by: T. at October 15, 2013 03:08 PM (Y6JQy)
Defined how? By self identification, critical spectrum questioning, vote record? I love polls, they can say almost anything, things like Romney has it! Oh tell me that one again. It still makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 03:08 PM (0q2P7)
The GOP Concern Caucus pretends we are the ones lighting the fires...
that's funny I was not on TV when the EBT cards went down....
Cavil let them mock the "get out of the way and go protect your own home" team which is shorthanded "Let it Burn"..
Free Shit Army will not stop until they have eaten the goose that laid the golden egg....
I aim to have enough food, mobility, and sense to unass the AO when they get their reward
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 03:08 PM (9jfyN)
Posted by: GnuBreed at October 15, 2013 03:08 PM (wNF3N)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 03:08 PM (1RQeV)
Posted by: blaster at October 15, 2013 03:09 PM (4+AaH)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 15, 2013 03:09 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: ace at October 15, 2013 06:36 PM
Revolutions are fantasist talk or wishcasting. Nobody here is seriously plotting it, just hoping somebody else gins it up or "People Wake Up".
On the other hand, as one as the cobs said yesterday, a political solution is no longer possible
It's a Catch-22. To solve the problem you have to be in power to do difficult things. However, if you truly gore all the oxes, the pissed off oxes throw you out of power if you even TALK about it
Every politician and most voters are using hope as a strategy. Hope that there's still pavement left over to kick the can down, and that some deux ex machina technology solves all our problems
Me, I look to the skies and yearn for SMOD
Posted by: kbdabear at October 15, 2013 03:09 PM (aTXUx)
Your move, Zero.
Why in the fuck is the GOP continuing to bid against itself. Enough with this nonsense. Pass short term debt ceiling and focus on shutdown/1 year delay in ACA.
Posted by: prescient11 at October 15, 2013 03:09 PM (tVTLU)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 15, 2013 03:10 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at October 15, 2013 03:10 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: Captain Hate on his iPhone at October 15, 2013 03:11 PM (rOP9q)
on the bright side, if it all crashes, it'll make my bid for office much easier being an outsider
then its MONEY!!!!
I mean proud public service
Posted by: navycopjoe at October 15, 2013 03:11 PM (nooa6)
Posted by: kbdabear at October 15, 2013 03:11 PM (aTXUx)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 15, 2013 03:11 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: JackStraw at October 15, 2013 03:12 PM (g1DWB)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 03:12 PM (1RQeV)
I'd put them at roughly 40% but not much higher. There are a substantial number of conservatives who are extremely pissed at the "let it burn" caucus within the House GOP (the 20-30 who scotched tonight's vote) and have no intent on allowing one of them to lead the caucus. The question is whether they can unite around an alternative. I think Cantor vs. Jordan would favor Cantor.
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 03:12 PM (n/+FT)
Posted by: Countrysquire at October 15, 2013 03:13 PM (dACAx)
Posted by: Crude at October 15, 2013 03:13 PM (grXXA)
Monty and I are brood mates on the issue.
I deluded myself into wishcasting Romney and Ryan having the balls to try to talk straight to Gen Y and the millenials about "why we fight"...
I fucked up I trusted the GOP as the gag line goes.
Be ready, the US is done. I would have been a lot more bothered had it happened in 2004 when the Kossacks were threatening it, but after two rounds of SCOAMF and the Media basically throwing a form of coup with no blowback I am resigned to starting over.
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 03:13 PM (9jfyN)
Everyone loves an underdog. "
The doomsayers will show you the millions and millions who have converted TO the dole in the last 5 years and point at the scoreboard.
Your underdog got his ass kicked.
Posted by: Jaws at October 15, 2013 03:13 PM (Rbtz3)
You can't fold when the other side has just screamed, "No Quarter!"
People who think Obama - who had barricades out the day the shutdown occurred - wasn't planning to do this at some shutdown are deluding themselves. He's going for it. He's the extremist, not us.
The fucking guy barricaded the Lincoln memorial, people.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 15, 2013 03:13 PM (uhAkr)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 03:13 PM (1RQeV)
Bottom line: this is totally fucked up and it is happening on obama's watch. own it sucker
That's about where I'm at. I don't know where this sudden calm is coming from, and I may be all wrong, but I have a feeling the MFM dam is about to burst and flood the Dims. Folks are seeing the effects of 404Care first hand and are rather disappointed that they were lied to.
And this gubmint shitdown is a big fizzle. All is not the Gloom and Doom that was predicted by the Left. If the rest of the country is half as aware as the Horde is fired up tonight, things may be about to turn against TFG and his Band of Merry Marxists. And quickly.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at October 15, 2013 03:14 PM (0HooB)
Ace,
You think it's folding time? Please, it's time for the GOP to pull their last offer and push harder.
Dying WWII vets get screwed with. But illegals come on in. No help for cancer kids. Big biz, no probs.
Yeah, what a horrible argument for the GOP to make. Fuck it. Keep it shutdown. Defund IRS and DHHS.
Posted by: prescient11 at October 15, 2013 03:14 PM (tVTLU)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 07:12 PM (1RQeV)
-------------
Ya. Little Winger was supposed to train some guys for something or other and now that's off again.
Posted by: mama winger at October 15, 2013 03:14 PM (P6QsQ)
46% Want Democrats to Control Congress, 45% Prefer GOP In Charge -Rasmussen
Posted by: perdogg at October 15, 2013 03:14 PM (ziD3M)
Running Red ain't sitting on the sidelines.
It's taking the fight to a plane that can be won.
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 03:14 PM (9jfyN)
Posted by: MTF at October 15, 2013 03:14 PM (CYKf3)
Dude if a cat got stuck in a tree it would get more play than Obamacare epicfail if that's all that the msm had. Quit wishcasting some sort of preferable media narrative. It was never a question of if they would cover the Republicans EEEEVILLL story it was a question of how.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 03:15 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 03:15 PM (1RQeV)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD, you taunty bitch. at October 15, 2013 03:15 PM (Gk3SS)
If the dollar were not the world's reserve currency, we would be burning already.
Posted by: toby928© at October 15, 2013 07:07 PM (QupBk)
think it would be a wash. being the world's reserve currency has negative consequences as well.
Posted by: rich@gmu at October 15, 2013 03:16 PM (ga+7c)
Posted by: Captain Hate on his iPhone at October 15, 2013 03:16 PM (rOP9q)
Posted by: WalrusRex at October 15, 2013 03:16 PM (PjgvN)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at October 15, 2013 03:16 PM (JDIKC)
The Republicans remind me of myself during the run-up to my divorce many years ago. I did everything possible to (a) avoid being the bad guy, and (b) being "at fault" for it. It didn't matter that the marriage was a train wreck and that I'd done quite a bit to make it that way, and it didn't matter that failure was not only inevitable but the gateway to the future well being of everyone concerned.
Quit worrying about blame. Quit avoiding responsibility. Take the affirmative steps necessary to put the President back into his constitutional role, and tell the genuinely mean-spirited and outrageously vindictive Democrat party that it is after all, patriotic to be something other than a rubber-stamp for an out of control executive.
Meantime, I've attended to the cleanliness of my musket, ensured the continued dryness of my metaphorical powder, placed a few extra flints in my pocket, and ensured that my balls are properly seated in their pouch as I gird the old loins for battle.
Posted by: Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner at October 15, 2013 03:16 PM (U7y8N)
Excellent. We'll get bed wetting and total capitulation now. The Democrats will be able to demand anything, and get it.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 03:17 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Waterhouse at October 15, 2013 03:17 PM (SaVfm)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at October 15, 2013 03:17 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 15, 2013 03:17 PM (a4Omg)
Posted by: soothie at October 15, 2013 03:18 PM (+uYqz)
Posted by: Merovign , Dark Lord of the Sith [/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at October 15, 2013 03:18 PM (qyfb5)
Posted by: JackStraw at October 15, 2013 07:12 PM (g1DWB)
We got an OMGGOVTSHUTDOWN crisis, and other than President Stompyfeet having a tantrum, nothing came of it. So if nothing else, there's that.
Posted by: mugiwara at October 15, 2013 03:18 PM (hpYnL)
Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 15, 2013 03:18 PM (HVff2)
The FEMA Camps are gonna have Arts 'n Crafts classes? Awesome!
Posted by: Jaws at October 15, 2013 03:18 PM (Rbtz3)
Posted by: ALH at October 15, 2013 03:18 PM (2LTPq)
I denounce myself. Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at October 15, 2013 07:17 PM (GEICT)
I don't know if I'm more ashamed of you for coming up with that or me for laughing.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD, you taunty bitch. at October 15, 2013 03:18 PM (Gk3SS)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 03:18 PM (a6O1A)
517 Anybody know where I can get a parrot?
http://tinyurl.com/lkpaqcz
no, but I found you a parrot....you know you want it
Posted by: navycopjoe at October 15, 2013 03:18 PM (nooa6)
Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 15, 2013 03:20 PM (HVff2)
Door COUNTY. It's the tip of the NE peninsula of WI that juts out onto Lake Michigan. Incredible natural beauty. Very pricey.
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 03:20 PM (n/+FT)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at October 15, 2013 03:20 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: T. at October 15, 2013 03:20 PM (Y6JQy)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 03:20 PM (1RQeV)
"But your spirit will live on in the beer stein I make from your skull."
From Today's quotable quotes
Posted by: The Jackhole at October 15, 2013 03:20 PM (nTgAI)
Too easy.
Posted by: Jaws at October 15, 2013 03:20 PM (Rbtz3)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 15, 2013 07:17 PM (a4Omg)
--------
Door County is that little sliver south of Green Bay that sticks out into Lake Michigan. Kind of the artsy fartsy area of WI.
No, Lake Geneva is southern WI right on the border with Illinois. It's where the elite Chicago set vacations and has their summer homes.
I am trying to figure out where in Northern WI there would be pricey homes. It's kind of a wasteland up there.
Posted by: mama winger at October 15, 2013 03:20 PM (P6QsQ)
Which is why I think OFucker is so dug in. He and his band of Merry Marxists know that the sheeple are waking up from their two decades of slumber and they know they need to hasten whatever they fuck they think is going to happen.
Now I'm not in the short term DOOM crowd (but we're long term boned for sure though). But don't think for a minute that they won't unleash the dogs if people start expressing their anger a la the Arab Spring. They want a Tea party spring to erupt. It's in their playbook which has been in every other leftist playbook opened during the past hundred years. They know that the more 404Care infects the average American that their days in power are numbered (peacefully, of course) but that 2014 mid-terms will make 2010 look like t-ball.
Posted by: TehAdmiral at October 15, 2013 03:21 PM (1LMZ9)
Posted by: soothie at October 15, 2013 03:21 PM (+uYqz)
I'd recommend John McCain, but I imagine when he shits on your shoulder it stinks quite a bit.
Posted by: GnuBreed at October 15, 2013 03:21 PM (wNF3N)
Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 15, 2013 03:22 PM (HVff2)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 03:22 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 03:22 PM (1RQeV)
we would end up aren't celebrating. Some of us are pretty bummed out
because we don't see any win here. Still waiting to hear it.
Posted by: JackStraw at October 15, 2013 07:12 PM (g1DWB)
This is hard because Boehner made it clear he wouldn't go all the way. It has to be like this so he doesn't stab us in the back like that again. I want to make make it clear that winning the next fight less painful than throwing the cards like this time. Being reasonable doesn't seem to get through to these jerks.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 03:22 PM (0q2P7)
That's his aftershave....
when they empty McCain's depends....it melts steel.
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 03:22 PM (9jfyN)
Posted by: Captain Hate on his iPhone at October 15, 2013 03:23 PM (rOP9q)
Posted by: Mama winger on that iPad thingies at October 15, 2013 03:23 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: kbdabear at October 15, 2013 07:09 PM (aTXUx)
I dunno. There's usually a triggering event for those kinds of things, a convergence point (for lack of a better term) that sets such things in motion: an obscure archduke is assassinated, the price of bread shoots up in France, a fanatic with delusions of grandeur raids an armory, a failed Austrian artist discovers a gift for public speaking in a Bavarian beer hall...such occurrences often go unrecognized for what they are at the time. They are very rarely (if ever) 'seriously plotted'.
Posted by: troyriser at October 15, 2013 03:23 PM (O66NZ)
Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at October 15, 2013 03:23 PM (jucos)
Depends
great minds or uh mimes Boss Moss...
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 03:23 PM (9jfyN)
Posted by: John at October 15, 2013 03:24 PM (cqUk8)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at October 15, 2013 03:24 PM (lVPtV)
uggggh Posted by: navycopjoe at October 15, 2013 07:20 PM (nooa6)
Mean. To. Me.
*paws at the screen and makes the noises*
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD, you taunty bitch. at October 15, 2013 03:24 PM (Gk3SS)
Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 15, 2013 07:22 PM (HVff2)
------------
Sorry, but you're just drive-thru territory for me on my way to the cabin. LOL
Posted by: mama winger at October 15, 2013 03:24 PM (P6QsQ)
I was half afraid half hopeful Barry shitting on 90 year olds and Allowing AMIGO GRANDE! would have been one....
Posted by: sven10077 at October 15, 2013 03:25 PM (9jfyN)
Posted by: Severe Conservative riding Orca at October 15, 2013 03:25 PM (RFeQD)
It's how the game was meant to be played.
Posted by: Baseball purist fast asleep by the 5th inning at October 15, 2013 03:25 PM (Dwehj)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 03:26 PM (1RQeV)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 03:26 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: John at October 15, 2013 07:24 PM (cqUk
You want to compare intellectual and professional accomplishments, sport? I'll show you mine if you show me yours.
Posted by: troyriser at October 15, 2013 03:26 PM (O66NZ)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at October 15, 2013 03:26 PM (lVPtV)
Posted by: Captain Hate on his iPhone at October 15, 2013 03:26 PM (rOP9q)
You so nailed me.
Posted by: T. at October 15, 2013 03:27 PM (Y6JQy)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse
I distinctly remember in 2011 and 2012 hearing from folks on this very site that the GOP establishment controlled everything, including picking our candidates. And now they can't even produce a unified message? What happened?
Posted by: pep at October 15, 2013 03:27 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: toby928© at October 15, 2013 07:09 PM (QupBk)
Hey!
That's my line.
Posted by: garrett at October 15, 2013 03:27 PM (c8fVP)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 15, 2013 03:27 PM (a4Omg)
Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 15, 2013 03:27 PM (HVff2)
Doesn't matter how many times you claim, "DOOMMONGERING!!"
We. Are. Going. To. Hurt.
Posted by: KG[/i][/b] at October 15, 2013 03:28 PM (IPz9m)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 03:28 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: Severe Conservative riding Orca at October 15, 2013 03:28 PM (RFeQD)
There was a time when Cantor would have been acceptable. His endorsement of amnesty killed that.
Posted by: pep at October 15, 2013 03:29 PM (6TB1Z)
True, but the connections are interesting. Some of these outside conservative groups pushing defund and some writers at two conservative websites are close with that particular group. I also feel this group of lawmakers is partially motivated by their desire to see Boehner resign and they would like to see Jordan to take his place. But accomplishing that goal would not be an easy task, at least not right now.
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at October 15, 2013 03:29 PM (YjDyJ)
Bills and RINOS and Air Force Won
and Daniel Cruz is not afraid.
Eye of a congress turn, listen to the trolls burn
D.C. serves its own needs, no one serve your own needs
feed it off a shutdown, uh oh hurry with NPS goons to stomp old soldiers here.
Wires all afire with no deals government for hire spending all the cash.
Left of center RINOs in fear running with the Tea Bags breathing down their backs.
MSNBC baffled hoarse stumped lathered stopped looking at that low poll plaing in the flyover zone.
Uh oh gonna blow chunks of debt gonna let EBT cards go save yourself serve yourself.
Overrun with zombies, liberals let their hearts bleed dummies with Obamacare with the Right to fight.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
And I feel fi-i-i-i-ine....
Posted by: exdem13 at October 15, 2013 03:29 PM (kfSXj)
Posted by: T. at October 15, 2013 03:29 PM (Y6JQy)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 03:29 PM (1RQeV)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 03:29 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at October 15, 2013 03:29 PM (GEICT)
Tom Hanks is all in for a third term for Obama.
Do you honestly think an Obama State Department *won't* certify him eligible for a third term? Oh that would undoubtedly get forwarded to the 9th circus, who would then declare Obama already won that election, then the Supreme Court clerks would forward the appeal to Kagan who would decline the SCOTUS to take up the case. And the Congress wouldn't dare impeach him.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 03:30 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Captain Hate on his iPhone at October 15, 2013 03:30 PM (rOP9q)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 15, 2013 03:30 PM (a4Omg)
Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 15, 2013 07:27 PM (HVff2)
-----------
We're up in the U.P., in the Hiawatha National Forest. Haven't tried to go up there since the shutdown. Wish I was up there so I could get all protest-y with the forest rangers. Although it's the UP, so not sure how compliant they would be with the dictates of the Boy-King.
Posted by: mama winger at October 15, 2013 03:31 PM (P6QsQ)
There was a time when Cantor would have been acceptable. His endorsement of amnesty killed that.
Cantor is Boehner in a yarmulke, always has been.
Louie Gohmert would sweep the TEA Party caucus and possibly some of those GOP reps currently cowed by the so-called leadership.
Posted by: RushBabe at October 15, 2013 03:32 PM (hrIP5)
Posted by: John Roberts at October 15, 2013 03:32 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 15, 2013 03:33 PM (HVff2)
Pelosi 73 yrs old
Hoyer 74 yrs old
McConnel 71 yrs old
McCain 77 yrs old
Biden 70 yrs old
They cannot escape the grim reaper. Time and or illness will claim them. The US will survive them.
The pendulum swings way right and then way left. But eventually it will swing back to the center. That's the way I see what's happening today in so many things. Things will come back to center. In my lifetime maybe not. Hopefully for my grandkids, nieces and nephews.
Enjoy coming here. Don't always comment.
But much like the 6 months after the reelection of Barack Obama I need a break from the doom and gloom.
Take care all. And thanks Ace and the other bloggers for all the info.
Posted by: never enough caffeine at October 15, 2013 03:33 PM (Qp3K5)
Posted by: pc at October 15, 2013 03:33 PM (zeWyX)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 03:33 PM (1RQeV)
Posted by: CAC at October 15, 2013 03:34 PM (24NZk)
Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 15, 2013 03:34 PM (HVff2)
THAT'S a dragon.
http://tinyurl.com/mldabg7
NSFW Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at October 15, 2013 07:29 PM (GEICT)
Yeah, but I'm not allowed to buy that.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD, you taunty bitch. at October 15, 2013 03:34 PM (Gk3SS)
Posted by: Severe Conservative riding Orca at October 15, 2013 03:34 PM (RFeQD)
Posted by: Sassy at October 15, 2013 03:35 PM (iPjxD)
Posted by: Goatweed at October 15, 2013 03:35 PM (8HrdX)
Sorry, I know we aren't supposed to do this anymore, but I can't help meself.
Bwahahahahahaha
Posted by: pep at October 15, 2013 03:35 PM (6TB1Z)
Cantor could win. Paul Ryan could win too, but I doubt Ryan wants it. The "Gang of 30" who are in tight with Heritage Action, Freedomworks and Erick Erickson/RedState wouldn't be nearly enough to stop either of those two.
There is a surprising amount of real, visceral rage at the Jim Jordan wing of the GOP right now. Not because they're "too conservative" -- a lot of the people who are pissed are equally if not more conservative than those guys -- but rather because they're seen as palace intriguers who aren't even really that conservative at all so much as they are canny students of branding and how to play to the 'base'.
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 03:35 PM (n/+FT)
Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 15, 2013 03:36 PM (HVff2)
Posted by: MTF at October 15, 2013 03:37 PM (p/Sn/)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 03:37 PM (1RQeV)
How is Waukesha?
Posted by: CAC at October 15, 2013 07:34 PM (24NZk)
---------
The Waukesha area is nice if you like suburbia. On the plus side, I could be at your house in like 45 minutes. On the downside, it's relatively close to Milwaukee, You might want to venture a little farther north if you want a great look at the stars.
Posted by: mama winger at October 15, 2013 03:37 PM (P6QsQ)
In other words, if the elite have the same plan foisted on the proles. This needs to be highlighted in every channel and venue possible...what is good enough for the people is NOT good enough for us peasants. So says King Barry.
Posted by: ken at October 15, 2013 03:37 PM (ng9uL)
Posted by: kbdabear at October 15, 2013 07:09 PM (aTXUx)
I don't want a revolution - I want a new opposition party.
One thing I think everyone will agree is that the GOP has no messaging capability. We have to get better at getting our message out and influencing public opinion. As of right now, we are failing at it.
Part of that though is that there's a commitment to be polite on the part of the GOP. The Democrats are howling in rage and the GOP is talking about wishing to work with them.
The GOP is wrong in how this is perceived - independents hear the media talking about how evil and duplicitous Republicans are, and they hear Democrats talking about how evil and duplicitous Republicans are, and then they hear Republicans...talking about what good people Democrats are and how they want to work with them.
The message to independents is "Democrats are good, Republicans are bad." It's obvious after the failure of elections since 2006 that this strategy doesn't work. The set of victories we did get in 2010 were after the TEA party shouted down Democrat congressmen at Townhalls.
I just don't see the GOP leadership changing as it needs to. Opposition parties need to oppose, not send mail asking for money and promising brutal fights at a future date.
Does anybody really believe the GOP would be behaving differently if it had both Houses of Congress? If it held the Presidency and House and the majority but not a veto-proof one?
If your plan hinges on us holding a veto-proof majority and the presidency, it's gonna be a long time. You can't be inert until then - you have to seek the best deal you can get. Play hardball.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 15, 2013 03:37 PM (uhAkr)
Didn't D&D come from up there in Wisconsin somewhere. Lake Geneva?
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 03:38 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at October 15, 2013 03:38 PM (gA69l)
Louie Gohmert is viewed a silly, slightly pathetic clown even by his allies in the Tea Party/Jim Jordan wing of the GOP caucus. Same with Steve King. Neither of those two could get elected dog-catcher, much less Speaker. It's a competence issue with them.
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 15, 2013 03:38 PM (n/+FT)
Posted by: Jungleboi at October 15, 2013 03:38 PM (zeWyX)
Posted by: Captain Hate on his iPhone at October 15, 2013 07:23 PM (rOP9q)
distorts trade flows. about 70-ish% of global trade and about 85% of oil are priced in dollars requiring countries to sell into this market to obtain dollars.
counterfeiting (esp abroad).
bailouts of financial institutions-the big 3 bailouts Fannie, Freddie, and AIG were more about international political considerations than economics (see also LTCM and most foreign gov't bailouts for the last 50 years)
Posted by: rich@gmu at October 15, 2013 03:38 PM (ga+7c)
Posted by: John at October 15, 2013 03:39 PM (cqUk8)
Posted by: CAC at October 15, 2013 03:39 PM (24NZk)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 03:39 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 03:39 PM (1RQeV)
Conventional wisdom is that the only person who could do it is Ryan, but he has been asked multiple times and always said no. In my opinion, it would not be a good fit for him.
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at October 15, 2013 03:39 PM (YjDyJ)
Posted by: Jeffrey Pelt at October 15, 2013 03:39 PM (Jsiw/)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 03:40 PM (a6O1A)
John has a long mustachePosted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 03:40 PM (1RQeV)
And you know all them fuckin dentists are perverts, thieves, drunks, and did I say perverts?
Dentists. Who needs them?
...and don't get me started on the blacks and the Jews.
Posted by: Beth (Seinfeld) at October 15, 2013 03:40 PM (c8fVP)
They'll filibuster until we nominate John Roberts II. If the SCOTUS liberal oldies doesn't end run us and resign next year.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 03:40 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 15, 2013 03:41 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: T. at October 15, 2013 03:41 PM (Y6JQy)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 03:41 PM (a6O1A)
...and don't get me started on the blacks and the Jews. Posted by: Beth (Seinfeld)
Or the damn Methodists.
Posted by: pep at October 15, 2013 03:41 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 15, 2013 03:42 PM (HVff2)
Posted by: Barney F. at October 15, 2013 03:42 PM (WM1/o)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 15, 2013 03:42 PM (DmNpO)
I know it's awesome. Boehner won't ever try and pull a bullshit stunt of stabbing us in the back ever again.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 03:43 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 15, 2013 03:43 PM (HVff2)
Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 15, 2013 03:44 PM (a6O1A)
Posted by: John at October 15, 2013 03:44 PM (cqUk8)
Posted by: T. at October 15, 2013 03:45 PM (Y6JQy)
I'm not. That jerk didn't really want a second term. He just didn't want Republicans to win.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 03:45 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 03:45 PM (1RQeV)
Posted by: Jeffrey Pelt at October 15, 2013 03:45 PM (Jsiw/)
Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 15, 2013 03:46 PM (HVff2)
Posted by: T. at October 15, 2013 03:47 PM (Y6JQy)
>>>That level of paranoia and stupidity is a joy to behold. These are your people Ace. You must be so proud.
I don't think Obama will have a third term. You don't know how to take a stupid joke do you? Mental acuity of a gnat that one.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 15, 2013 03:47 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 15, 2013 03:49 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: Crude at October 15, 2013 03:49 PM (grXXA)
The fucking guy barricaded the Lincoln memorial, people.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 15, 2013 07:13 PM (uhAkr)
This. He's wanted everything shut down from the beginning - his "no negotiating" position was his genius ploy to run out the clock. This is going to bite him in the ass. Come November 1st, what doesn't he pay? Social Security? Yeah, somehow I can't see his refusal to negotiate with the GOP getting him through that one. Backfire O'Barky and his dullards have created this whole shit fire and they can own the fucker.
Oh, yeah, and if the GOP sticks with the Vitter amendment or something like it, that'll be the story. O refuses to pay Social Security so that congress, et al can keep their subsidies? Yeah, he'll be real popular with that one.
Posted by: joanne at October 15, 2013 03:50 PM (s/quq)
Posted by: GalosGann at October 15, 2013 03:51 PM (vW1n3)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 15, 2013 03:52 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: Jungleboi at October 15, 2013 03:53 PM (zeWyX)
Posted by: Crude at October 15, 2013 03:54 PM (grXXA)
Posted by: Captain Hate on his iPhone at October 15, 2013 03:55 PM (rOP9q)
It's funny how Rove, who but for Robert Luskin's fancy footwork would have been in jail, was so dismissive of Christine, she admitted she had experimented with withcraft, his client didn't own up to the DUI, which are larger offenses, yet he went along with CREW and the FEC and the IRS, because strategery!
Posted by: Jeffrey Pelt at October 15, 2013 03:55 PM (Jsiw/)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 15, 2013 03:59 PM (DmNpO)
The clowns you voted for have threatened the full faith and credit of the US. You're going to pay a heavy price for that idiocy. Trust me.
Posted by: John at October 15, 2013 07:39 PM (cqUk
Who runs the executive branch genuis?
Posted by: rich@gmu at October 15, 2013 04:00 PM (ga+7c)
@robertcostaNRO per sources, options for the House GOP are limited: accept what Reid-McConnell broker, or at last minute try for a short DL ext
Posted by: Miss80sBaby at October 15, 2013 04:00 PM (YjDyJ)
Posted by: Crude at October 15, 2013 04:02 PM (grXXA)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 15, 2013 04:02 PM (a4Omg)
by: Nevergiveup at October 15, 2013 07:45 PM (1RQeV)
***********
Sounds like another one of those hard hitting interviews with the "most powerful man in the free world".
Posted by: gracepmc at October 15, 2013 04:04 PM (rznx3)
Posted by: rickl at October 15, 2013 04:04 PM (sdi6R)
Posted by: Enquiring Minds Want To Know at October 15, 2013 04:05 PM (qetj4)
Posted by: Crude at October 15, 2013 04:06 PM (grXXA)
You do not have to eat a plate of shit in public and say it tastes good for me. You may tell all the voluntary descendents of the slavery party to fuck off and save your self respect without me holding it against you in any way.
Thank you for holding out because of your principles. It is well past time that someone did and I am glad that you have chosen to do so.
Managing escalating debt problems by accelerating escalating debt is a sure sign of mental illness. Thank you for refusing to go along silently because someone told you it would be the easy thing to do.
Posted by: jc at October 15, 2013 04:07 PM (i8c5b)
Posted by: pc at October 15, 2013 04:08 PM (zeWyX)
Old troll, not even American. Coming through a Danish ISP
Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 15, 2013 04:08 PM (l5zzX)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 15, 2013 04:09 PM (a4Omg)
Posted by: southdakotaboy at October 15, 2013 04:10 PM (Baypg)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 15, 2013 04:13 PM (DmNpO)
To: The GOP
From: ScoggDog
Re: Your Services are No Longer Needed
CC: Jeff, PackSoldier, et. al.
As a Small Government Conservative, I can not help but notice the proclivity of your Party to either piss down your leg or shoot yourself if the dick whenever confronted with a tough fight.
In light of such, when confronted with the Socialist Agenda of running the country off the cliff at full speed, I find your alternative of plunging off said precipice at a safe and sane 45 MPH to be less than comforting.
As a result, I find myself no longer in need of your services as my representation in Federal Government. To that end, expect your ability to occupy said positions to be greatly limited. You may find, as cold comfort, that your newfound lack of House and Senate seats to somewhat exempt you from the distasteful task of partaking in said uncomfortable political dustups.
Best of luck in your new obsolescence.
Posted by: ScoggDog at October 15, 2013 04:14 PM (6/+vz)
Posted by: Crude at October 15, 2013 04:21 PM (grXXA)
Posted by: John at October 15, 2013 04:21 PM (zVreQ)
Posted by: Captain Hate on his iPhone at October 15, 2013 04:34 PM (rOP9q)
Posted by: Crude at October 15, 2013 04:42 PM (grXXA)
Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 15, 2013 04:45 PM (l5zzX)
Posted by: Captain Hate on his iPhone at October 15, 2013 04:54 PM (rOP9q)
Posted by: Crude at October 15, 2013 05:22 PM (grXXA)
SHUT. IT. DOWN. LEAVE. IT. SHUT. DOWN.
I couldn't despise the bastards running this government more than I do. It's not humanly possible. There is literally nothing these government jerks do that I need. Shut the damned thing down until it's a maximum of 50% of its current size and we're running a 25% surplus and then maybe I might think of supporting it again. Maybe.
As for the trolls like packsoldier and John, go screw yourselves. I hope the day comes soon when it's open season on bastards like you. I'd like to see you get schooled by Rule .308.
Posted by: mac at October 15, 2013 08:28 PM (TMssB)
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Posted by: nadavegan at October 15, 2013 01:57 PM (g84Si)