April 05, 2013
Book/Story Recommendation (?)
— Ace I kind of don't want to recommend this because I don't know how many will be into this, but this weekend, I read the first thing I ever read about Amanda Knox, and got interested in it, and wound up reading two books about it.
— Ace I kind of don't want to recommend this because I don't know how many will be into this, but this weekend, I read the first thing I ever read about Amanda Knox, and got interested in it, and wound up reading two books about it.
I generally don't care about crime stories. But this isn't a crime story, at least not in my eyes. We know who killed Meredith Kercher. It's so obvious who killed her it's not even interesting and not even a mystery. (The killer is in jail for killing her.)
What it is a Government Out of Control Story, a Media Bias story, and a Madness of the Crowd story.
It's because it's those sorts of things that I bring it up at all. If you're a little suspicious of the hand-in-glove fusion of government and media... have I got a story for you.
I sort of don't want to be the guy who Reads One Book and then Tells You Everything About It Like He Knew Which Way Was Up Five Minutes Ago. But the actual story of this thing is -- in my new and untested opinion -- very Duke Lacrosse, Italian-Style.
In other words, I'm saying that, based on what I know so far (and I don't pretend to be an expert, this is two books' worth of stuff) that Amanda Knox and her boyfriend were 100% innocent and the prosecutor sort of knew that -- or should have known that -- from the start.
Let me give you one anecdote. Every Duke Lacrosse story needs a Nifong, right? So here's the Nifong of this case. His name is Magnini.* He's the prosecutor for Perugia.
Have you guys read Relic or any of those other novels by Douglas Preston? Well, he went to Italy and became interested in an unsolved series of murders by a killer called "The Monster of Florence." That killer had killed fourteen people, seven couples. This Magnini cat had some crazy theories about the killer. Really crazy.
One theory he had was that an accidental death in his jurisdiction was actually a murder connected to the Monster of Florence killings. And that the man had been murdered to keep him quiet about What He Knew about the murders. Because What He Knew about the murders were that they were performed by a Satanic cult.
Well, the problem was, the body of this dead man showed no signs of foul play. So the prosecutor postulated that someone -- the Satanic cultists, presumably -- had swapped the body of the murdered man with a body which would show no signs of murder.
Just decided That Must Be It. He got an order to exhume the body to resolve whether or not this was the original body found.
Well, a DNA test determined it was in fact the original body, and that Satanists hadn't swapped it out for the other hone.
So you know what he next postulated?
That the body must have been switched a second time! That the original body was switched -- just as he'd speculated -- but now the Satanists had caught wind of his plan to exhume the body and so had switched it back, just before he dug it up.
It gets worse. Because over the course of 8 years he prosecuted 20 people for their supposed Satanic Body-Swapping crimes and their involvement in the Monster of Florence Satanic Cult Killings. All prosecutions ending in innocence for the accused, but-- eight years worth of prosecutions? Imagine going through this for the speculation of an... what can I say that won't get me sued? ... highly imaginative fellow who won't take the evidence for a first answer, and also for second answer?
When Preston and his Italian partner started writing about him and researching hims bizarre prosecutions, he threatened Preston enough to make Preston abandon Italy, and he actually jailed his partner for like three weeks.
Now, to conduct these prosecutions, Magini went outside his jurisdiction into Florence -- playing away from the home court, as it were. That was a mistake. Because Florence decided they'd had enough of him and convicted him for gross misconduct. Because the Italian system actually doesn't say you're guilty upon a jury conviction, but upon a reviewing judge's agreement with the conviction (that is, you're not guilty when a jury says so, but when an appeals court says so), he was permitted to remain a prosecutor...
...and just happened to postulate, during this post-conviction period, that another death was caused by a Satan-inspired conspiracy. This one between Amanda Knox and her boyfriend who, as far as we know, never even read anything about Satan.
The weird thing is this: We know who did the murder. The guy who did the murder had a history of breaking into places and threatening the occupants with knives, if they stumbled upon him. He broke into three places less than two months before the murders, twice armed with a knife. He's a low-level drug-dealer and thief who fled for Germany, despite no one connecting him with the murder, 48 hours after the crime was discovered.
His fingerprints and DNA are all over the crime scene. He was convicted of the murder.
The trouble is, Amanda Knox and her boyfriend had already been arrested and charged with the murder before this plainly-guilty convicted scumbag was linked to the crime.
When he was discovered, and the cornucopia of evidence against him came out, they just... claimed that Amanda Knox and her boyfriend had for some reason recruited him to do the murders.
It's pretty preposterous. The first judge found the prosecutor's Satanic Sex Cult motive too implausible, and tossed it out. He substituted in a new motive (because Knox doesn't have one) of his own invention: That the murderer began attacking Meredith Kircher, and Knox and her boyfriend heard her cry out, and so, without any previous deliberation, just suddenly decided to... assist in the rape/murder, for no clearly-stated reason, except "drugs" or "thrills" or something.
It really is very Duke Lacrosse, with the media ginning up a lot of hatred for her simply because of what she was -- a rich, entitled American whore. (In fact she wasn't rich and wasn't a whore, but she was American; when she complained about the police hitting her in interrogations, one member of the Italian media wanted to know why she'd never complained about President Bush's waterboarding.)
The appellate court freed her in 2011 after reviewing the evidence against her and deciding, in short, there was none. None at all.
I wouldn't suggest reading that appellate ruling at first, by the way. You sort of have to have heard all this "evidence" first before you appreciate the court rightfully looking at all and saying, "So what? This proves nothing."
I bring this up because I've been reading about it a lot the past couple of weeks. It really is maddening. I don't know if you guys are interested or would be interested, but if you liked the Duke Lacrosse story, and if you love tales of stupidity and malice, you'll love this.
Maybe start with "Murder in Italy" by Candace Dempsey (available on Kindle). Then, after reading that, read the appellate court acquittal linked above.
But warning: You may wind up getting sort of obsessed with it, as I have. It's a catnip/flypaper sort of thing.
* Actually it's not Magnini. I'm deliberately misspelling it because he sues everyone who points out he is grossly incompetent. I mean this-- he's brought suits even against people writing letters to the editor in American newspapers.
Posted by: Ace at
03:08 PM
| Comments (632)
Post contains 1279 words, total size 8 kb.
2
It was.
actually, what it was was a premature arrest and declaration of "case closed," and then they found the real murderer with an avalanche of evidence against him, so they said... eh, fuck it, we'll just say these two people in jail were involved somehow.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 03:13 PM (LCRYB)
3
Comon Ace, shes a flake.
Doing cartwheels in the cell and accusing an innocent bartender of the crime.
Fairly certain she's innocent, but stupid people owe a certain amount of regret.
Doing cartwheels in the cell and accusing an innocent bartender of the crime.
Fairly certain she's innocent, but stupid people owe a certain amount of regret.
Posted by: Skint at April 05, 2013 03:13 PM (OWQ+e)
5
* Actually it's not Magnini.
I wish it were.
Posted by: Mangina at April 05, 2013 03:16 PM (oJQ+J)
6
>>>You mean the former coach of the Cleveland Browns is guilty of an Italian murder?
i'm not saying that, YOU'RE saying that.
Posted by: ace, who says you're saying that at April 05, 2013 03:16 PM (LCRYB)
7
It really is very Duke Lacrosse, with the media ginning up a lot of
hatred for her simply because of what she was -- a rich, entitled
American whore.
Well, that and she's really good looking.
Well, that and she's really good looking.
Posted by: pep at April 05, 2013 03:16 PM (6TB1Z)
8
Remember, Italian courts recently convicted some seismologists for failing to predict an earthquake. I am, how you say, less than convinced of the integrity of the Italian criminal justice system.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at April 05, 2013 03:17 PM (Gk3SS)
9
"what can I say that won't get me sued?"
---------------
Ya know, it never even occurred to me that this was a concern at the HQ.
---------------
Ya know, it never even occurred to me that this was a concern at the HQ.
Posted by: sluggo at April 05, 2013 03:18 PM (vVv3V)
10
This guy could make a great Florida prosecutor.
Posted by: zsasz at April 05, 2013 03:18 PM (MMC8r)
11
Far, far too complex. Besides, I took off early and the Tullamore Dew is kicking in. Time to mosey over to 24 Hour Campfire.
Posted by: Skookumchuk at April 05, 2013 03:18 PM (x4x3r)
12
Ahhh, government.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 03:18 PM (bxiXv)
13
Shortly after her return to the states, Knox appeared at an Occupy rally.
She should be violated with a Genoa salami. Repeatedly.
She should be violated with a Genoa salami. Repeatedly.
Posted by: Attila at April 05, 2013 03:19 PM (Cs2tJ)
14
What was it that Judge Roy Bean used to say?
"Hang 'em. But first we're gonna give 'em a fair trial."
Something like that.
Posted by: wheatie at April 05, 2013 03:19 PM (5kUwW)
15
>>>Well, that and she's really good looking.
there's this whole bizarre thing where she's essentially thought to be some kind of Witch that can control men's minds with her beauty. And then all this sort of obvious discomfort with her because she's sort of attractive, where everything she does is read as "whorish" (like buying underwear, because she was locked out of her apartment for two days because it was a crime scene, and she needed new underwear, but she's obviously a callous witch-whore for buying underwear).
It's very weird. The subterranean thing going on here with sex, you could write a book about. In fact Nina Burleigh did (but I didn't read that because it seems feminist-overwrought, even though in this case I think she might have something of a point).
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 03:19 PM (LCRYB)
16
As I understand it, Knox is not out of the woods yet, there is no double jeopardy in Italy, which is not unexpected.
Posted by: Dr Spank at April 05, 2013 03:20 PM (3+QKS)
17
>>>Shortly after her return to the states, Knox appeared at an Occupy rally.
I didn't know that. Okay, she's an idiot and I probably wouldn't want to talk to her.
But still: Innocent of murder. Had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 03:20 PM (LCRYB)
18
I saw a documentary on the case on TV right before she was finally released and it pretty much convinced me that she was innocent. The prosecutor did outrageous things, like having the prison tell Knox that her blood test came back positive for AID and to write letters to everyone she ever slept with to warn them, then used the letters as a list to prove how promiscuous she was to fit his insane theory of a crazed-sex session murder.
Posted by: Synnerman at April 05, 2013 03:21 PM (0Bdlg)
19
>>>It really is very Duke Lacrosse, with the media ginning up a lot of
hatred for her simply because of what she was -- a rich, entitled
American whore.
And in the Duke case there was the idiot DA who was charged with ethics violations, then removed as DA, disbarred, sued by the lacrosse players, and filed bankruptcy. Badabing.
hatred for her simply because of what she was -- a rich, entitled
American whore.
And in the Duke case there was the idiot DA who was charged with ethics violations, then removed as DA, disbarred, sued by the lacrosse players, and filed bankruptcy. Badabing.
Posted by: Tobacco Road at April 05, 2013 03:21 PM (4Mv1T)
20
>>> like having the prison tell Knox that her blood test came back positive for AID and to write letters to everyone she ever slept with to warn them, then used the letters as a list to prove how promiscuous she was to fit his insane theory of a crazed-sex session murder.
I don't even consider that all that outrageous. (He was actually trying to see if she had had sex with the drifter scumbag thief she supposedly "recruited" for the "satanic sex game gone wrong;" she hadn't.)
In the list of Outrageous Things that fails to even crack the top 20.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 03:23 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: kbdabear at April 05, 2013 03:24 PM (mCvL4)
22
I actually would put that in the category of "Good, solid policework," at least for this particular gentleman.
At least it's something that had the possibility of producing evidence.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 03:24 PM (LCRYB)
23
It's very weird. The subterranean thing going on here with sex, you could write a book about.
It's sort of like the post about something really massive, on the order of our sun. Sex drives most of human interaction. We think we're above that, but we aren't. Well, except for Sheldon Cooper.
It's sort of like the post about something really massive, on the order of our sun. Sex drives most of human interaction. We think we're above that, but we aren't. Well, except for Sheldon Cooper.
Posted by: pep at April 05, 2013 03:24 PM (6TB1Z)
25
Wait - wasn't there DNA from Knox on the knife itself as well as some other physical evidence connecting them to the murder act?
I had read about Magnini's persecution of Preston but didn't realize he was involved with this case as well.At this point there's no question that he's a crazed prosecutor but then Knox and her boyfriend could still be guilty of the murder (minus all the bullshit about a satanic cult) independent of his cukooness.
I had read about Magnini's persecution of Preston but didn't realize he was involved with this case as well.At this point there's no question that he's a crazed prosecutor but then Knox and her boyfriend could still be guilty of the murder (minus all the bullshit about a satanic cult) independent of his cukooness.
Posted by: Mætenloch at April 05, 2013 03:25 PM (pAlYe)
26
One of the Law & Orders did an episode where she was a whore, whore, whore and totally guilty. That's when I knew she was innocent.
Posted by: Steven at April 05, 2013 03:26 PM (7WkAU)
27
Kindle? Isn't that some sort of satanic device that magically steals the thoughts of others and demands animal/human sacrifices?
Posted by: Dr Spank at April 05, 2013 03:26 PM (3+QKS)
30
Interesting. Ann coulter's weekly column takes the other side. http://www.anncoulter.com/
Posted by: Hurricanes at April 05, 2013 03:27 PM (2LKaa)
32
This is obviously Ace trying to create a diversion to deflect our attention away from HIS satanic body-swapping crimes.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 03:28 PM (0zDXv)
33
The bar owner 'framed' by American Amanda Knox over the brutal sex slaying of British student Meredith Kercher in Italy says he forgives Knox after she apologised to himwww.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-499849
Posted by: rork at April 05, 2013 03:28 PM (wddGd)
34
>>> Wait - wasn't there DNA from Knox on the knife itself as well as some other physical evidence connecting them to the murder act?
no.
Well, yes you heard right, but the answer is no. If you want a full explanation click through the Heilmann-Zanetti report until you get to the DNA "evidence."
Let give a very Duke Lacrosse sort of example (though this is an easier thing to dispense with than what you bring up):
Remember in the Duke Lacrosse case where they said that the the guys must be guilty because their DNA was found IN THEIR OWN BATHROOM?
Well, they do the exact same thing here. Amanda and Meredith shared a bathroom; they found Amanda and Meredith's DNA in the sink. Conclusion? The DNA must be from blood Amanda washed off herself post-murder (and not, say, from skin cells from washing hands at any other point in the past two months).
The blood-on-the-knife thing sounds big until you read about it.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 03:29 PM (LCRYB)
35
14....there's this whole bizarre thing where she's essentially thought to be some kind of Witch that can control men's minds with her beauty.
Oh.
Well then, they should just do the 'Witch Test' on her...
Hold her down in the water, and if she drowns -- she's innocent!
Posted by: wheatie at April 05, 2013 03:29 PM (5kUwW)
36
She's Kate Middleton pretty; beautiful but in an ordinary sort of way. I never understood why the Italian courts wanted to destroy her. Apparently she and the boyf were not appropriately somber or something, did cartwheels and kissed and joked, which means BURN THE WITCH to Italians. OR so I gathered from Dateline.
Between stories like this, shows like Locked up Abroad, and the expense of international travel in general, staycations look better and better all the time.
Between stories like this, shows like Locked up Abroad, and the expense of international travel in general, staycations look better and better all the time.
Posted by: LizLem at April 05, 2013 03:29 PM (8wqqE)
37
I recall that a several years ago, perhaps in the late 90's, Italy changed parts of their criminal justice system.
Specifically, the defense was allowed to present evidence and make objections. Prior to this change, the defense was able only to make a closing argument, a "harangue" (the term used in the article) arguing for the innocence of the defendant.
For some reason, I recall a "Perry Mason" reference in the article, but maybe it's just my mind playing tricks.
Posted by: Arbalest at April 05, 2013 03:29 PM (yldXV)
38
I don't think she was actually part of the Occupy rally. I think she showed up to see it out of curiosity or may have even just been in the area considering it was in the middle of a busy shopping are of downtown. Occupy will claim she showed up to support, but please, does that mean everyone in the area showed up in support?
Posted by: Duh! at April 05, 2013 03:30 PM (Zs83Q)
39
There's a special place in Hell reserved for corrupt and/or overzealous prosecutors.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2013 03:30 PM (sdi6R)
40
So is this Mangina guy still a prosecutor?
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 03:30 PM (bxiXv)
41
I didn't know the Dempsey book, I did see Follain's take, who has written about everything from Carlos the Jackal to the Vatican, btw the Florence murders was one of the subplots in Hannibal.
Posted by: luigi vercotti at April 05, 2013 03:30 PM (Jsiw/)
42
You buried the guilty guy in maybe paragraph 20. You should teach math in public school.
Posted by: Beagle at April 05, 2013 03:30 PM (sOtz/)
43
OT I saw one of those true crime shows on ID and Angela Corey was on extensively.God that woman is a publicity hound,giant shit eating grin every time she was on camera.
Posted by: steevy at April 05, 2013 03:31 PM (9XBK2)
44
My Kindle won't download books anymore, I've got to download to PC and transfer. But I may give it a shot.
Posted by: BeckoningChasm at April 05, 2013 03:31 PM (DuH+r)
45
>>>The bar owner 'framed' by American Amanda Knox over the brutal sex slaying of British student Meredith Kercher in Italy says he forgives Knox after she apologised to
she never framed him. The cops were slapping her around in a marathon interrogation and were certain the boss was involved and kept insisting he was. See, Amanda had written, in Italian, to him: See you later. But apparently that isn't an idiom in Italian as it is English. They were certain that this referred to a specific plan to see him later that night, and kept demanding she rat out her accomplice.
After hours of being screamed at and slapped, and deep into the small hours of the morning, she said sure, he did it.
This is another reason they had to charge her: When an innocent person implicates another innocent person because of yoru aggressive interrogation, that's a problem for YOU, the police.
But not if you can say she was a murderer.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 03:31 PM (LCRYB)
46
I had a friend who was on a ferry in Lake Como. There had been a storm earlier so no one but her and the crew and an elderly couple were on board. The crew gave her wine and then started coming on way too strong. After a while she told them she was a prosecutor for the city of San Diego and they all scattered. They are that afraid of prosecutors over there.
Posted by: Waldo at April 05, 2013 03:32 PM (xY6Ip)
47
38
There's a special place in Hell reserved for corrupt and/or overzealous prosecutors.
I think it's called Washington DC.
I think it's called Washington DC.
Posted by: BeckoningChasm at April 05, 2013 03:32 PM (DuH+r)
48
Knox could show up to fifteen Occupy rallies and I couldn't care less. The fact is, it's almost guaranteed that she is innocent and the Italians are railroading her into a conviction because this Mangina just. can't. accept. being. wrong.
It's sick, a travesty of justice and no amount of her attending some leftnut rally makes her deserve to spend life in jail for something she didn't do.
It's sick, a travesty of justice and no amount of her attending some leftnut rally makes her deserve to spend life in jail for something she didn't do.
Posted by: DangerGirl @deadlyestrogen at April 05, 2013 03:32 PM (GrtrJ)
49
The blood-on-the-knife thing sounds big until you read about it.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 07:29 PM (LCRYB)
So if it wasn't physically found on the knife then calling it DNA-off-the-knife is just pure speculation and not a factual statement then, right?
If true, then that unravels almost all of the physical evidence.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 07:29 PM (LCRYB)
So if it wasn't physically found on the knife then calling it DNA-off-the-knife is just pure speculation and not a factual statement then, right?
If true, then that unravels almost all of the physical evidence.
Posted by: Mætenloch at April 05, 2013 03:32 PM (pAlYe)
50
>>> She's Kate Middleton pretty; beautiful but in an ordinary sort of way. I never understood why the Italian courts wanted to destroy her.
it's a weird thing. she's quite pretty but, as you say, in the normal range of quite pretty.
But people act as if she's ethereal or something.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 03:33 PM (LCRYB)
51
Apparently Italian prosecutors are as competent as Italian economists.
Posted by: zsasz at April 05, 2013 03:33 PM (MMC8r)
52
There is other dna besides the knife, plus the absolute fact that Know lied and tried to frame another man for the murder but dont believe me, read Ann Coulter
http://tinyurl.com/bojfbhm
Ace never shares these salient details with you.
Posted by: PeppermintPattysclitring at April 05, 2013 03:34 PM (HfA9V)
53
In breaking news, someone has just unloaded 6-7 rounds of a fairly large caliber firearm, through the barrel, and just up the street from me.
I stepped outside on the porch. No screamigng or yelling to be heard (I live in a quiet neighborhood). What should a Moron do? I've had two sips of my first scotch so legally I can't just stroll up the street packin'.
Guess I'll wait for the sirens.
I stepped outside on the porch. No screamigng or yelling to be heard (I live in a quiet neighborhood). What should a Moron do? I've had two sips of my first scotch so legally I can't just stroll up the street packin'.
Guess I'll wait for the sirens.
Posted by: Tobacco Road at April 05, 2013 03:35 PM (4Mv1T)
54
"Shortly after her return to the states, Knox appeared at an Occupy rally. "
Posted by: Attila at April 05, 2013 07:19 PM (Cs2tJ)
Yeah....I'm not so sure that she didn't just stumble across a rally and was then recognized.
Posted by: Attila at April 05, 2013 07:19 PM (Cs2tJ)
Yeah....I'm not so sure that she didn't just stumble across a rally and was then recognized.
On Thursday she walked hand in hand through downtown Seattle with best friend Madison Paxton, who stayed close to Knox while she was in prison in Italy.After lunch they walked with some family members through a crowded shopping square during a Wall Street Protest in downtown Seattle, barely noticeable with their covered heads and PaxtonÂ’s sunglasses.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 03:35 PM (0zDXv)
55
Italy is lovely. Fortunately while I was there I never killed anyone so I have no insight into their criminal justice system.
Posted by: mama winger at April 05, 2013 03:35 PM (P6QsQ)
56
I've had a handful of cases during my career as a prosecutor that proved to me that just because I thought I knew what was going on, it ain't necessarily so. (The only one in which the guy spent any significant lockup time I discussed I the thread immediately below.). The only point I'm making is that you can act in good faith and still be wrong.
Posted by: WalrusRex at April 05, 2013 03:35 PM (VlXYw)
57
she never framed him. The cops were slapping her around in a marathon
interrogation and were certain the boss was involved and kept insisting
he was.
Good ol waterboarding, just buck up and stand the torture you week little person.
Good ol waterboarding, just buck up and stand the torture you week little person.
Posted by: rork at April 05, 2013 03:35 PM (wddGd)
58
I don't know what it is - you're right, objectively she's just normal college girl pretty - but she is also very very hot. She must be one of those people that photograph very expressively in the eyes.
Posted by: Steven at April 05, 2013 03:35 PM (7WkAU)
59
48...If true, then that unravels almost all of the physical evidence.
But hey, it's Italy.
Apparently, they have pullulating physical evidence there.
Posted by: wheatie at April 05, 2013 03:36 PM (5kUwW)
60
Just goes to show you that Americans are not liked even in the civilized 1st world countries. Never paid that much attention to the case when it was going on. Ace has got me interested in it, may have to pick up a book on it.
Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian fka irishacres at April 05, 2013 03:36 PM (HVff2)
62
Anne Coulter had a couple of columns about this, one just yesterday, and she is convinced that Knox is guilty. She always seemed rational to me, but she uses her ridiculing style against Knox defenders and makes me question everything Coulter has ever written.
The evidence details are even more maddening than Ace posted above. The knife, the witness, the deal with the actual murderer. Everything about the case screams incompetence and out of control prosecutor.
The only caveat is you have to assume a manipulative police interrogation to get her to confess confess and lie and make the whole thing plausible.
Glad to see someone who's rationality i respect (Ace) come down has he has. I was afraid I would have to read a couple books just to find out if Coulter might be right.
Posted by: Endeavor to Persevere at April 05, 2013 03:38 PM (zZJJp)
64
Guess I'll wait for the sirens.
Posted by: Tobacco Road at April 05, 2013 07:35 PM (4Mv1T)
Or call the Po-Pos.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 03:38 PM (bxiXv)
65
"But people act as if she's ethereal or something.
"
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 07:33 PM (LCRYB)
She has an All-American look that is quite appealing, and photogenic, which helps.
Plus...young perky breasts don't hurt.
By the way, my assumption has been that she got away with the murder. Mostly because I assume everyone is guilty, and I didn't pay any attention to the coverage, other than the aforementioned perky breasts.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 07:33 PM (LCRYB)
She has an All-American look that is quite appealing, and photogenic, which helps.
Plus...young perky breasts don't hurt.
By the way, my assumption has been that she got away with the murder. Mostly because I assume everyone is guilty, and I didn't pay any attention to the coverage, other than the aforementioned perky breasts.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 03:39 PM (0zDXv)
66
I stayed away from this case because I knew it would be a sufficiency of the evidence deal and I'm not fluent in italian and would miss the important nuances. All the usual cop haters, every defendant is innocent crowd were swearing she was guilty. These people find defendants innocent on no evidence and find American defendants guilty on no evidence.
Just before they reversed the conviction, I read up on it including Italian blogs. It's pretty shocking the way they treated her and her bf. I didn't believe in that satanic bullshit.
Somebody broke in, raped her, and a bloody handprint and dna matched Guede who left the country. What fucking more did they want. And I don't care that she fingered and innocent guy. That's what happens when you fuck with people's minds and they are scared.
Posted by: Waldo at April 05, 2013 03:39 PM (xY6Ip)
68
47 Knox could show up to fifteen Occupy rallies and I couldn't care less.
Posted by: DangerGirl @deadlyestrogen at April 05, 2013 07:32 PM (GrtrJ)
This. Last I heard, Occupy rallies weren't illegal.
Not to derail the thread or anything, but while I'm not an Occupy supporter, a lot of the knee-jerk opposition on conservative blogs always rubbed me the wrong way.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2013 03:40 PM (sdi6R)
69
I didn't pay any attention to the coverage, other than the aforementioned perky breasts.
You, and about 50% of the population.
You, and about 50% of the population.
Posted by: pep at April 05, 2013 03:40 PM (6TB1Z)
70
Frankly, Coulter's thinking process has become quite suspect of lately.
Posted by: zsasz at April 05, 2013 03:40 PM (MMC8r)
71
Inspector Guittari, was the real villain in the first case, I don't thinking there was involvement with the Knox case. He falls in the same venue as the prosecutors against the CIA for rendering that Egyptian cleric from Milan.
Posted by: luigi vercotti at April 05, 2013 03:40 PM (Jsiw/)
73
She always seemed rational to me, but she uses her ridiculing style against Knox defenders and makes me question everything Coulter has ever written.
Posted by: Endeavor to Persevere at April 05, 2013 07:38 PM (zZJJp)
Everybody has their hobby horses, some of them have a pretty powerful pull, and sometime people can't even see it happening.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 03:41 PM (bxiXv)
74
In breaking news, someone has just unloaded 6-7 rounds of a fairly large
caliber firearm, through the barrel, and just up the street from me.
Gunshots in my neighborhood all the time. The cops usually ain't interested unless you're calling in someone dead/bleeding at the same time.
Gunshots in my neighborhood all the time. The cops usually ain't interested unless you're calling in someone dead/bleeding at the same time.
Posted by: @PurpAv at April 05, 2013 03:41 PM (/gHaE)
75
>>>>o if it wasn't physically found on the knife then calling it DNA-off-the-knife is just pure speculation and not a factual statement then, right?
click ahead in the Link I provided.
Look this is super complicated but here: DNA testing is probably more complicated than you think it is.
The knife is not the murder weapon. The knife is too big to be the murder weapon. The knife does not match a clear print on blood which clearly delineates the dimensions and shape of the murder weapon. It is so clearly not the murder weapon the Italians had to postulate that there were TWO murder weapons, one which left the bloody print and one which did all the measurable wounds, which no one found, and then this other knife.
The knife we're talking about is a random chef's knife (about that size, really big) pulled from Rafael's apartment. This is where it gets complicated: Tests showed no blood and no dna on the knife. But when it was swabbed and checked for a DNA profile (odd you do that when tests say "no dna"), the machine registered "TOO LOW" (too small a sample).
The technician just dialed the machine to override the protocols against testing a sample that was too small to test. When she did this, she found a profile similar to meredith's.
But the thing is, there's a reason the machine refused to perform this action until its settings were tampered. "LCN" dna, low copy number dna, cannot be tested except in very special ways with very strict circumstances. the problem with LCN DNA is that there are actually a lot of errors in DNA testing; alleles "drop out," and some alleles not present in teh sample show up. If you have a large quantity of DNA, these effects ("stochastic effects") tend to be fairly small and you get good results. In other words, you have so much signal that noise is not a factor.
In LCN DNA (dna where you ahve truly microscopic samples, beneath the minimal level for DNA testing) you have actually an awful lot of noise -- so much noise that protocols say to not run the test on LCN DNA, except in special labs with special protocols. Otherwise you'll get erroneous results-- false positives, false negatives.
Well, they just ignored that, got a sorta positive result, and said "The hell with protocols and the hell with forensic science."
In fact the material on the knife appears to have just been some kind of vegetable material.
The protocols for minimum sample size of DNA existed for a reason. So too did the other tests (such as the tests which showed no DNA and no blood, which were of course just ignored).
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 03:41 PM (LCRYB)
76
She(Knox) is going to be retried for the murder again.
Posted by: Dr Spank at April 05, 2013 03:41 PM (3+QKS)
77
I just assumed she did it because of how goddamned annoying Italians are, always waving their arms around and rowing those stupid goddamned boats.
Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at April 05, 2013 03:42 PM (+lsX1)
78
27 She lied and accused a bartender of murder
Posted by: rork at April 05, 2013 07:26 PM (wddGd)
I think she "framed" him only after hours and hours of police interrogation *without a lawyer*. The police were filling her head with all kinds of nonsense, iirc, and practically drove her mad.
Posted by: Aslan's Girl at April 05, 2013 03:42 PM (KL49F)
Posted by: kbdabear at April 05, 2013 03:42 PM (mCvL4)
81
Maybe this prosecutor IS the monster of Florence and is using all this Knox hoopla to distract from his proclivities?
Posted by: @PurpAv at April 05, 2013 03:43 PM (/gHaE)
82
CSI DNA stuff has a great deal of credibility if the science is good. But like the huge FBI lab scandal showed, people are the weak link in the science. A blood drop has to be handled properly in situ, transported, and examined with no cross contamination. Yes it is OJ puffery, but true. One bad or unethical link is all it takes.
Posted by: Beagle at April 05, 2013 03:43 PM (sOtz/)
83
Jodi Arias admits to murdering her boyfriend, but seems to lose her memory about details which would convict her for sure
If she gets acquitted, she's got a bright future in politics
If she gets acquitted, she's got a bright future in politics
Posted by: kbdabear at April 05, 2013 03:44 PM (mCvL4)
84
I recall when, during the appeal,, the real facts began leaking out and it was a real WTF moment.
As for them trying to try her yet again, from what I understand, she is no longer compelled to appear and that the U.S. will not extradite her.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 03:44 PM (piMMO)
85
I'd say Ace was making shit up except this is the SAME LEVEL of wackiness from the prosecutor that we saw in a few satan-cult-child-abuse-at-kindergarten cases a decade or two ago.
McMartin in California,
Janet Reno's thing in Florida and I guess there were others but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at April 05, 2013 03:44 PM (vHxiM)
87
Sorry, but once the prosecutors have tried a Satanist angle and failed, I'm pretty much thinking they know their evidence is shit.
Posted by: zsasz at April 05, 2013 03:45 PM (MMC8r)
88
Accusing Ace of rationality? That should be a banning.
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at April 05, 2013 03:45 PM (pxDth)
89
Jodi Arias admits to murdering her boyfriend, but seems to lose her memory about details which would convict her for sure
If she gets acquitted, she's got a bright future in politics
***
She'll be convicted, but she's probably done enough to spare herself the needle.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 03:45 PM (piMMO)
90
Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian fka irishacres at April 05, 2013 07:36 PM (HVff2)
Sad but true; the whole "I'm an American but have to wear a Canada flag on my backpack when I go abroad" sort of thing. Which, has anyone actually done that? I always felt such an act would be a betrayal of myself, in the "white/1st world guilt" stupidity sort of vein. My grandparents did not immigrate here post WW2 for a better life, only for me to be ashamed of my country when I go back to visit.
Posted by: LizLem at April 05, 2013 03:45 PM (8wqqE)
91
82 Yeah,in the Arias case there is no doubt she killed him,she admitted it eventually.
Posted by: steevy at April 05, 2013 03:45 PM (9XBK2)
92
.....the U.S. will not extradite her.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse
You think Obama won't send her back to Italy? She's no black panther. buddy.
You think Obama won't send her back to Italy? She's no black panther. buddy.
Posted by: Dr Spank at April 05, 2013 03:45 PM (3+QKS)
93
I love seeing the 'trial by personality' people like to argue after watching things in the media. It's like American Idol or something.
Posted by: zsasz at April 05, 2013 03:46 PM (MMC8r)
94
but while I'm not an Occupy supporter, a lot of the knee-jerk opposition on conservative blogs always rubbed me the wrong way.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2013 07:40 PM (sdi6R)
It wasn't knee-jerk. It was sponsored by the far-left, was all about demands for free shit from taxpayers and using and taking other people's property from the beginning, and was filled with tangential crime, vandalism and violence which was largely perpetrated or excused by the "occupiers."
Adbusters, Black Bloc and the rest of the Usual Suspects threw a press-sanctified tantrum, basically.
Early on a few people took a wait-and-see attitude despite the origins of it, but pretty much people who were paying attention came around quick.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 03:46 PM (bxiXv)
95
Posted by: Endeavor to Persevere at April 05, 2013 07:38 PM (zZJJp)
ITA. From what I've read of this case, I believe Knox is innocent and was relieved with Ace's stance on this. Coulter jumped the shark a long time ago. She can still put out some great columns, but mostly, I just ignore her.
Posted by: Aslan's Girl at April 05, 2013 03:47 PM (KL49F)
96
You think Obama won't send her back to Italy? She's no black panther. buddy.
Posted by: Dr Spank at April 05, 2013 07:45 PM (3+QKS)
I like the way them Eyetalian prosecutors work their magic. I am sending a DoJ team over to take notes!
Posted by: Eric "Red" Holder at April 05, 2013 03:47 PM (Cnqmv)
97
67...Last I heard, Occupy rallies weren't illegal.
Not to derail the thread or anything, but while I'm not an Occupy supporter, a lot of the knee-jerk opposition on conservative blogs always rubbed me the wrong way.
---------
Rallies? ....No, not illegal.
But camping out in parks for weeks...parks which are clearly designated 'No Camping'...that's illegal.
This is just one example of the preferential treatment that was lavished on the Occupy crowds.
Most of them didn't even know what they were 'protesting'.
Yet, the Tea Party rallies were scrutinized for any possible detail of wrongdoing...and then characterized wrongly as 'domestic terrorists'.
I think this is what conservatives were opposed to.
Not their right to hold rallies.
Posted by: wheatie at April 05, 2013 03:47 PM (5kUwW)
98
Posted by: Dr Spank at April 05, 2013 07:45 PM (3+QKS)
Maybe that's why she showed up at an Occupy rally... get in O's good books 
Posted by: Aslan's Girl at April 05, 2013 03:48 PM (KL49F)
99
>>>here is other dna besides the knife, plus the absolute fact that Know lied and tried to frame another man for the murder but dont believe me, read Ann Coulter
Nonsense. First they got her boyfriend to claim he couldn't swear Amanda was with him (they were together all night; they were the other's alibi). They got him, under pressure, to say "Well I didn't do it but maybe Amanda slipped out..."
Then they took that to Amanda and said "You have no alibi, you're going to jail for 30 years, your boyfriend rolled you over!" They also hit her a bunch.
They kept asking about this boss -- Patrick Lumumba -- because they were sure he was involved from this "See you later" message, which they stupidly took literally.
In the early AM, denied a lawyer after asking multiple times, slapped around and not understanding what the hell was going on (by the way, her Italian wasn't good either), she said, "sure, he did it."
Whatever. If you slap me around and keep me awake for 12 hours I'm eventually going to "frame" whoever you want me to frame.
Heroism for me runs out at the six hour mark. If heavily armed men who have me in their possession make it clear that I'm either going to say "Yeah it's that guy" or they're going to do bad things to me, eventually I'll agree.
BTW, this is fucking stupid because that guy had an airtight alibi. He wasn't involved See?
So why did Amanda say he was?
Because the police told her what they wanted to hear before they let her go and get some sleep and eventually she said sure, whatever you say.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 03:48 PM (LCRYB)
100
If you want to play the Satanist angle, which is always suspect coming out of the gate, and you ain't got any Satanist evidence, you're well through the looking glass.
Toss in a double body switch scheme, and we're talking padded rooms, straight jackets, and Thorazine Slurpy time.
Toss in a double body switch scheme, and we're talking padded rooms, straight jackets, and Thorazine Slurpy time.
Posted by: @PurpAv at April 05, 2013 03:49 PM (/gHaE)
101
In fact the material on the knife appears to have just been some kind of vegetable material.
The protocols for minimum sample size of DNA existed for a reason. So too did the other tests (such as the tests which showed no DNA and no blood, which were of course just ignored).
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 07:41 PM (LCRYB)
So was there any evidence this particular knife was used to attack Kirchner other than this below-the-noise-level DNA test?
The protocols for minimum sample size of DNA existed for a reason. So too did the other tests (such as the tests which showed no DNA and no blood, which were of course just ignored).
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 07:41 PM (LCRYB)
So was there any evidence this particular knife was used to attack Kirchner other than this below-the-noise-level DNA test?
Posted by: Mætenloch at April 05, 2013 03:49 PM (pAlYe)
102
It still fascinates me that we can get 
but not &.
but not &.Posted by: Hrothgar at April 05, 2013 03:50 PM (Cnqmv)
103
Cons are obsessed with sex. A love hate relationship.
Posted by: rork at April 05, 2013 03:50 PM (wddGd)
105
I, for one, would be interested to hear Amanda Marcotte's take on this.
Posted by: jakeman at April 05, 2013 03:50 PM (96M6e)
106
Don't judge me, but Lifetime did a pretty good movie on this with Hayden Pannitier (or however her name is spelled).
Posted by: Aslan's Girl at April 05, 2013 03:50 PM (KL49F)
108
Is it a misperception to think that the general population considers DNA a good tool for proving innocence, but distrust it as proof of guilt?
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at April 05, 2013 03:51 PM (pxDth)
110
105
Don't judge me, but Lifetime did a pretty good movie on this with Hayden Pannitier (or however her name is spelled).
Posted by: Aslan's Girl
Let the judging commence.
Let the judging commence.
Posted by: Dr Spank at April 05, 2013 03:52 PM (3+QKS)
112
>>>Sorry, but once the prosecutors have tried a Satanist angle and failed, I'm pretty much thinking they know their evidence is shit.
the thing is, that's all they have. There is no motive. Amanda was in the first rush of love for a guy; she was happy. SO there's no "sexual jealousy" thing at work. (Meredith was dating someone else.)
They had no arguments. They texted each other a lot. They were, by all accounts, each other's closest companion in Italy (you know, they just met each other but both spoke English so did a lot together).
There is no reasonable motive as to WHY Amanda and her boyfriend (who only met Meredith like three times) would want to murder her.
So they just said "Satan." And then when they threw that out, they said, "Must have been drugs."
Drugs? They were smoking pot/tobacco/hash cigarettes. This is not the sort of exotic cocktail that makes you all crazy. It's a depressant/mellower.
So, they never had a motive but said "Motive schmotive, she's a whore, look at the 'icicle blue eyes.'"
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 03:52 PM (LCRYB)
113
Janet Reno's thing in Florida and I guess there were others but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at April 05, 2013 07:44 PM (vHxiM)
There are many, like the Wenatchee Witch Hunts in Washington State. Over 40 people were convicted of tens of thousands of crimes which turned out to have been Completely Motherfucking Made Up, some served full sentences before they were exonerated.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 03:52 PM (bxiXv)
114
108 Yes,I guessed wrong before but the "cons" proves it.
Posted by: steevy at April 05, 2013 03:52 PM (9XBK2)
115
I'd hit it, but I'd probably wear an onion or a clove of garlic in my belt -- just in case.
Posted by: GnuBreed at April 05, 2013 03:53 PM (cHZB7)
117
12 Shortly after her return to the states, Knox appeared at an Occupy rally.
Posted by: Attila at April 05, 2013 07:19 PM (Cs2tJ)
Lots of women appear at Occupy rallies. They're called rape victims.
Posted by: BornLib at April 05, 2013 03:53 PM (zpNwC)
118
84
I'd say Ace was making shit up except this is the SAME LEVEL of wackiness from the prosecutor that we saw in a few satan-cult-child-abuse-at-kindergarten cases a decade or two ago.
McMartin in California,
Janet Reno's thing in Florida and I guess there were others but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at April 05, 2013 07:44 PM (vHxiM)
Boy, you hit the nail on the head. I used to think that the Salem Witch Trials were examples of benighted, ignorant superstition, and it's great that we're so much more advanced and smarter today.
Well, guess what? Those "ritual sex abuse" cases in the 1980s were the SAME. DAMN. THING.
They also relied heavily on the testimony of children. Just like the Salem Witch Trials. And children never lie. Just ask any child who broke a lamp.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2013 03:53 PM (sdi6R)
120
>>>
So was there any evidence this particular knife was used to attack Kirchner other than this below-the-noise-level DNA test?
No. The knife that killed meredith is 8cm long. All the penetratrating would are 8cm deep with bruising on the skin (indicating the knife was jammed in to the hilt).
The knife with the "DNA" (probably green pepper DNA but whatever) is 17.5 cm long.
Did I mention that the killer, Rudy Guede, whose fingerprints and DNA are all over the place, threatened a guy with a knife something like 7cm to 10cm long, when he got caught burglarizing his place?
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 03:55 PM (LCRYB)
121
Is it a misperception to think that the general population considers DNA a good tool for proving innocence, but distrust it as proof of guilt?
****
Not really.
If there is DNA and it is tied to someone, it MAY mean they are guilty.
However, if there is DNA and it is not tied to the accused, it cannot be used against the accused.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 03:55 PM (piMMO)
122
Unless you have been interrogated, you don't know what it is like. Everyone wants to think they would play it cool, but they don't. One trick they do is keep yelling at you and even hitting you until you agree with them on something small just to get them to stop. Laugh but it works.
Posted by: Waldo at April 05, 2013 03:55 PM (xY6Ip)
123
As far as her looks, I saw a much better looking girl just this morning at QuikTrip.
In yoga pants, to boot.
Posted by: zsasz at April 05, 2013 03:56 PM (MMC8r)
125
@109
The way they questioned those children was itself child abuse.
Posted by: Beagle at April 05, 2013 03:57 PM (sOtz/)
126
93
but while I'm not an Occupy supporter, a lot of the knee-jerk opposition on conservative blogs always rubbed me the wrong way.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2013 07:40 PM (sdi6R)
Well the media's portrayal of the Occupy rallies rubbed ME the wrong way, especially when juxtaposed with their portrayal of the Tea Party movement. Also the need for rape tents, and the theft from churches kind enough to house the vagabond OWS participants.
Anyway, the biggest takeaway I had from the Amanda Knox public spectacle was not to do anything remotely illegal or stupid in foreign countries, ever. And don't hang around with people who do. As screwed up as out justice system is, it is rainbows and sunshine when compared to the courtroom/law enforcement shenanigans you see going on around the world.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2013 07:40 PM (sdi6R)
Well the media's portrayal of the Occupy rallies rubbed ME the wrong way, especially when juxtaposed with their portrayal of the Tea Party movement. Also the need for rape tents, and the theft from churches kind enough to house the vagabond OWS participants.
Anyway, the biggest takeaway I had from the Amanda Knox public spectacle was not to do anything remotely illegal or stupid in foreign countries, ever. And don't hang around with people who do. As screwed up as out justice system is, it is rainbows and sunshine when compared to the courtroom/law enforcement shenanigans you see going on around the world.
Posted by: LizLem at April 05, 2013 03:58 PM (8wqqE)
127
>>>Unless you have been interrogated, you don't know what it is like. Everyone wants to think they would play it cool, but they don't. One trick they do is keep yelling at you and even hitting you until you agree with them on something small just to get them to stop. Laugh but it works.
yeah I think everyone wants to believe he's a hero... but fortunately most of us haven't had our heroism tested.
The Central Park Wilding guys all confessed.
They were also all innocent. We now know that; we have the actual guys in jail.
See, I never used to believe someone would confess falsely UNTIL that. But now I know people can and do confess falsely-- given sufficient pressure.
In Knox's case, she didn't confess; she gave the cops what they wanted, the crack in the door, the statement that she may have been in the murder apartment (but did not commit the crime) and that yes, this other guy did it.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 03:58 PM (LCRYB)
128
As far as her looks, I saw a much better looking girl just this morning at QuikTrip.
***
But you don't usually see pretty, girl-next-door types accused of twisted Satanic and drug-fueled murders during a sexual frenzy.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 03:58 PM (piMMO)
129
Did I mention that the killer, Rudy Guede, whose
fingerprints and DNA are all over the place, threatened a guy with a
knife something like 7cm to 10cm long, when he got caught burglarizing
his place?
Posted by: ace
Youza talkin' crazy. It's like your possessed by some sort of invisible entity controlled by a dark and evil, reddish-hued monster.
Posted by: ace
Youza talkin' crazy. It's like your possessed by some sort of invisible entity controlled by a dark and evil, reddish-hued monster.
Posted by: Giulano Mignini at April 05, 2013 03:58 PM (3+QKS)
130
If you do an image search of Knox, it's remarkable how evil she looks in photos. Evil, yet very very sexy.
Now what I'm wondering is if this is just a quality about her or if those photos were selected by the media SPECIFICALLY because she looks sly and evil in them.
Posted by: Warden at April 05, 2013 03:59 PM (HzhBE)
131
There is dna and then there is dna. One issue is when was the dna deposited? Also, what kind of dna is it?
Dna off the base of a knife blade where all sorts of crud accumulates and could have been there for months is not as forensically relevant as a dna profile drawnn from a blood stain on a murder weapon when the defendant cut himself from stabbing the person with a knife without a handguard (a classic injury).
Here you had Guede's dna (semen?) and his handprint on her bedding in her blood.
Posted by: Waldo at April 05, 2013 04:00 PM (xY6Ip)
132
I'd love to call her up and ask her if she's like to go to the Olive Garden with me just for a goof
Posted by: Albie Damned at April 05, 2013 04:00 PM (Yhu4q)
133
>>>>Now what I'm wondering is if this is just a quality
about her or if those photos were selected by the media SPECIFICALLY
because she looks sly and evil in them.
Posted by: Warden at April 05, 2013 07:59 PM (HzhBE)
You have to wonder about this?
Posted by: GW Bush at April 05, 2013 04:01 PM (Zs83Q)
134
It would seem that if Ace goes out of his way not to use the prosecutor's actual name, others would respect that effort.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 04:01 PM (piMMO)
137
Anyway, the biggest takeaway I had from the Amanda Knox public spectacle was not to do anything remotely illegal or stupid in foreign countries, ever. And don't hang around with people who do. As screwed up as out justice system is, it is rainbows and sunshine when compared to the courtroom/law enforcement shenanigans you see going on around the world.
Posted by: LizLem at April 05, 2013 07:58 PM (8wqqE)
From accounts I've heard you never want to be arrested for a serious crime in Japan. They can hold you for weeks without any evidence and will basically psychologically torture you until you confess. There's a reason they have a 99% conviction rate and it's not because they never get the wrong guy.
Posted by: LizLem at April 05, 2013 07:58 PM (8wqqE)
From accounts I've heard you never want to be arrested for a serious crime in Japan. They can hold you for weeks without any evidence and will basically psychologically torture you until you confess. There's a reason they have a 99% conviction rate and it's not because they never get the wrong guy.
Posted by: Mætenloch at April 05, 2013 04:03 PM (pAlYe)
138
There is real Satanism and witchcraft(the black magic kind).They are better at covering their tracks though and these bogus cases help them greatly.
Posted by: steevy at April 05, 2013 04:03 PM (9XBK2)
139
The Amanda Knox story is just one more reason I pretty much NEVER travel abroad if I can help it.
Our criminal justice system only seems bad until you've had the misfortune of experiencing another country's CJS. If I must breach our borders, I really do try to pick 1st world countries where our Embassies actually give a crap about Americans in their host country.
Our criminal justice system only seems bad until you've had the misfortune of experiencing another country's CJS. If I must breach our borders, I really do try to pick 1st world countries where our Embassies actually give a crap about Americans in their host country.
Posted by: Rusty Nail at April 05, 2013 04:03 PM (WWuYG)
140
warden,
probably the latter. Candace Dempsey called Italy a reporter's dream because everyone leaks and will sell you stuff for money.
In Knox's case, her jailers gave her pieces of paper so she could keep a diary. She thought this was a kindness. No it was so they could gather the pages up and sell them to the media.
Point is, she wrote a diary entry about two pages long, addressed to her mom, in which she expressed the following thoughts:
1 My world is turned upside down.
2. This is crazy and I am scared.
3. My friend has been murdered and no one will listen to me that I DIDN'T DO IT. I loved her.
4. Mom, please don't give up on me. I love you.
5. Mom, I wish this could all be over so we could just go back to normal. I just want to do normal things again. I just want you to take me shopping.
Here's how the Daily Mail ran this diary entry:
My friend has been murdered.
MUM, COME TAKE ME SHOPPING!
I have to tell you I'm reading the media treatment here and I'm having a hard look at myself as far as sensationalizing and stuff. I'm sort of having a crisis of confidence, now that I see OTHER people using this sort of technique to such odious ends.
It's sort of awful.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 04:04 PM (LCRYB)
141
128 Yep,and why they have so few unsolved murders.They are apt to call any they can't explain a suicide.
Posted by: steevy at April 05, 2013 04:04 PM (9XBK2)
142
I never want to be arrested *anyway*.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 04:04 PM (bxiXv)
143
Over 40 people were convicted of tens of thousands of crimes which turned out to have been Completely Motherfucking Made Up
Once you got a designated scapegoat, it only makes sense to heap all you can on them so the police can close all those open case files.
Once you got a designated scapegoat, it only makes sense to heap all you can on them so the police can close all those open case files.
Posted by: @PurpAv at April 05, 2013 04:05 PM (/gHaE)
144
131 Well,there is a strong anti American current among many Brits and the victim was British.
Posted by: steevy at April 05, 2013 04:06 PM (9XBK2)
145
89 wheatie
117 LizLem
Yes, I agree with your comments, especially regarding the different treatment of Occupy vs. Tea Party by the media and local governments.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2013 04:06 PM (sdi6R)
146
Where's the Mafia when you need it? Double tap to the prosecutor's head. Problem solved.
Posted by: packsoldier at April 05, 2013 04:06 PM (JRKSs)
147
>>>Here you had Guede's dna (semen?) and his handprint on her bedding in her blood.
fingerprints, handprints, DNA, semen.
Similar MO in previous arrests, armed with a similar weapon.
Would get drunk and "grabby" with women on the street he didn't know.
He obviously did it. he's in jail for it.
There's just no reason to suppose anyone else was involved.
Occam's Razor says-- he did it!
But then, we've got these two guys we already arrested and slapped around some to get some crap statements out of them implicating another innocent person...
...hmmm...
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 04:06 PM (LCRYB)
148
My friend has been murdered.
MUM, COME TAKE ME SHOPPING!
SHOPPING, sounds like a conservative....
MUM, COME TAKE ME SHOPPING!
SHOPPING, sounds like a conservative....
Posted by: Stink at April 05, 2013 04:07 PM (vpFGB)
149
Thanks ace,
I have just lost all hope for humanity. Magini is the straw that broke the camels back for me. Just now. Kinda not kidding here. We are so collectively crazy and perhaps hopeless.
Posted by: Eaton Cox at April 05, 2013 04:07 PM (DLsRw)
150
The European press did seem to take out eight years of BDS on Knox. The coverage ranged from deeply unfair to sexually exploitive. After some months doubts began to creep in.
Posted by: Beagle at April 05, 2013 04:08 PM (sOtz/)
151
I have to tell you I'm reading the media treatment here and I'm having a hard look at myself as far as sensationalizing and stuff. I'm sort of having a crisis of confidence, now that I see OTHER people using this sort of technique to such odious ends.
Is their a Piers Morgan connection anywhere? Since most Americans believe she is innocent and was screwed by Italy and the press, it might hurt him immensely.
I'd like to know if the US will force her to go back? They shouldn't since Italy had demonstrated time and time again they will not afford her basic human rights.
Posted by: Waldo at April 05, 2013 04:08 PM (xY6Ip)
152
Plus...young perky breasts don't hurt.
--------------
I don't remember them being all that perky from the honeymoon pics but those were taken from about 100 miles away with a Polaroid camera.
--------------
I don't remember them being all that perky from the honeymoon pics but those were taken from about 100 miles away with a Polaroid camera.
Posted by: sluggo at April 05, 2013 04:08 PM (vVv3V)
153
See, I never used to believe someone would confess
falsely UNTIL that. But now I know people can and do confess falsely--
given sufficient pressure.
In Knox's case, she didn't confess; she gave the cops what they wanted, the crack in the door, the statement that she may have been in the murder apartment (but did not commit the crime) and that yes, this other guy did it.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 07:58 PM (LCRYB)
I was reading an appellate decision a few years back about a man who was convicted of raping and murdering his young daughter. He "confessed" after hours and hours of interrogation and after all kinds of threats to his wife and other kids. Meanwhile, the freaky drifter that the police first suspected was left go because hey confession. Needless to say, the father didn't do it and creepy drifter did. Creepy drifter got caught after killing at least three other girls. So not only did that family's life get ripped apart but other little girls died because the cops were utterly convinced that the father did it.
In Knox's case, she didn't confess; she gave the cops what they wanted, the crack in the door, the statement that she may have been in the murder apartment (but did not commit the crime) and that yes, this other guy did it.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 07:58 PM (LCRYB)
I was reading an appellate decision a few years back about a man who was convicted of raping and murdering his young daughter. He "confessed" after hours and hours of interrogation and after all kinds of threats to his wife and other kids. Meanwhile, the freaky drifter that the police first suspected was left go because hey confession. Needless to say, the father didn't do it and creepy drifter did. Creepy drifter got caught after killing at least three other girls. So not only did that family's life get ripped apart but other little girls died because the cops were utterly convinced that the father did it.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at April 05, 2013 04:09 PM (Gk3SS)
154
Horror stories about getting entangled in foreign countries' justice systems are certainly nothing new. If you think our system is bad, try pretty much anywhere else.
You should have a few decades of your life set aside for this endeavor.
You should have a few decades of your life set aside for this endeavor.
Posted by: GnuBreed at April 05, 2013 04:09 PM (cHZB7)
155
I try not to go to any other countries that are aware of my presence, for this very reason.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 04:10 PM (bxiXv)
157
139 Obama has us universally loved now.Right?
Posted by: steevy at April 05, 2013 04:10 PM (9XBK2)
158
Is their a Piers Morgan connection anywhere?
Who cares? Gimme 20 minutes and I'll manufacture one. That seems to be the game being played here...
Who cares? Gimme 20 minutes and I'll manufacture one. That seems to be the game being played here...
Posted by: @PurpAv at April 05, 2013 04:10 PM (/gHaE)
159
But how many crimes have compelling physical evidence? Trying to solve my FIL' s murder we have lots of compelling circumstantial evidence but zero physical or forensic evidence. I can't even get the DA to actively make inquiries.
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at April 05, 2013 04:11 PM (pxDth)
160
>>>I'm sort of having a crisis of confidence, now that I see OTHER people using this sort of technique to such odious ends.
It's sort of awful
This is a tough place to be. Sorta there myself in a different way in my own profession. Working by one's self, as I assume you do, and I most certainly do, it is hard to get the affirmation from others that one sometimes needs to move past this.
It's sort of awful
This is a tough place to be. Sorta there myself in a different way in my own profession. Working by one's self, as I assume you do, and I most certainly do, it is hard to get the affirmation from others that one sometimes needs to move past this.
Posted by: Tobacco Road at April 05, 2013 04:11 PM (4Mv1T)
161
You guys should see what the Sanhedrin and Romans can cook up.
Posted by: Son on Man at April 05, 2013 04:12 PM (Zs83Q)
162
But how many crimes have compelling physical evidence? Trying to solve my FIL' s murder we have lots of compelling circumstantial evidence but zero physical or forensic evidence. I can't even get the DA to actively make inquiries.
***
I'm sorry you're going through that.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 04:12 PM (piMMO)
163
Weren't there one or two incidents involving low-flying US military jets back around the time when Knox was first arrested? That might have contributed to the initial furor directed at her (particularly since the US refuses to allow its servicemen to be tried in foreign courts).
Posted by: junior at April 05, 2013 04:12 PM (UWFpX)
165
I'd like to know if the US will force her to go back?
ERIC. FUCKING. HOLDER.
Her best bet is Belize until this junta is gone.
ERIC. FUCKING. HOLDER.
Her best bet is Belize until this junta is gone.
Posted by: @PurpAv at April 05, 2013 04:13 PM (/gHaE)
166
>>>Is their a Piers Morgan connection anywhere? Since most Americans believe she is innocent and was screwed by Italy and the press, it might hurt him immensely.
he might have been an editor at the Daily Mail at the time but I don't know his life.
It's really pretty terrible, the media behavior here. Not a dollop of skepticism.
The media likes to think of itself as skeptical and resistant to the frenzies of the crowd but in fact they're dumb cowards who are first on the bandwagon.
Anyway, I've got to read this Monster of Florence book, which I'd wanted to read for ages anyhow.
I'm sorry, but that story I laid out? Once you have That Kind of a Mind convinced you're guilty (and all of his idiot police, who went along with this crap for that), you're going to jail, innocent or not.
I wouldn't trust this guy to fucking sell me stamps at the post office.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 04:13 PM (LCRYB)
168
I tell my wife I wouldn't go into Mexico for any reason under the sun because it's a corrupt shithole and the cops are as crooked as the crooks, and she tells me that its not so bad in the resort areas.
Yeah, we still ain't goin' to Mexico.
Posted by: zsasz at April 05, 2013 04:13 PM (MMC8r)
169
142
I was reading an appellate decision a few years back about a man who was convicted of raping and murdering his young daughter. He "confessed" after hours and hours of interrogation and after all kinds of threats to his wife and other kids. Meanwhile, the freaky drifter that the police first suspected was left go because hey confession. Needless to say, the father didn't do it and creepy drifter did. Creepy drifter got caught after killing at least three other girls. So not only did that family's life get ripped apart but other little girls died because the cops were utterly convinced that the father did it.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at April 05, 2013 08:09 PM (Gk3SS)
This.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2013 04:14 PM (sdi6R)
170
I read this bullshit that she should be retried because there "are so many unanswered questions." The questions have been answered. They just don't like the answers. How is retrying the two going to answer any questions? It's such a bullshit comment.
Posted by: Waldo at April 05, 2013 04:14 PM (xY6Ip)
171
152 Weren't there one or two incidents involving low-flying US military jets back around the time when Knox was first arrested? That might have contributed to the initial furor directed at her (particularly since the US refuses to allow its servicemen to be tried in foreign courts).
Posted by: junior at April 05, 2013 08:12 PM (UWFpX)
__________
That was in 1998 IIRC
Posted by: tasker at April 05, 2013 04:15 PM (r2PLg)
172
>>>I read this bullshit that she should be retried because there "are so many unanswered questions." The questions have been answered. They just don't like the answers.
global warming
The public got sold on this Satanic Sex Queen story and when the real murderer got arrested, and convicted, they scarcely batted an eye
They just wanted to know when the Satanic Sex Queen would be put in jail for Commanding Him to Commit Rape and Murder.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 04:16 PM (LCRYB)
173
One of my guilty pleasures is true crime, so I've heard about a few other cases where suspects were browbeaten into confessing. The West Memphis Three case is the most famous:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Memphis_Three
But this sounds uncannily like the Norfolk Four case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk_Four
That has the same angle of innocent people being tied to the real killer with a total lack of evidence, in this case *despite the killer confessing that he acted alone*.
I get the bad feeling that this kind of thing happens a lot.
My takeaway from this is that if I am ever picked up by the police for any reason whatsoever I am lawyering up instantaneously. After reading Ace's summary, my main takeaway is that Amanda Knox is a tough cookie in that she didn't confess despite days of much rougher treatment than would be possible in the USA.
Posted by: SparcVark at April 05, 2013 04:16 PM (UhD+Z)
174
The media likes to think of itself as skeptical and resistant to the frenzies of the crowd but in fact they're dumb cowards who are first on the bandwagon.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 08:13 PM (LCRYB)
MFM delenda est.
Because they lie to themselves and each other almost as much as they lie to us.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 04:16 PM (bxiXv)
175
@159 I read this bullshit that she should be retried because there "are so many unanswered questions." The questions have been answered. They just don't like the answers. How is retrying the two going to answer any questions? It's such a bullshit comment.
----------------------
And also begs the question, " Why didn't you incompetents ask all the questions in the first place?"
Posted by: junior at April 05, 2013 04:16 PM (UWFpX)
176
She sort of looks like one of the Hemingways.
Posted by: tasker at April 05, 2013 04:16 PM (r2PLg)
Posted by: xbradtc at April 05, 2013 04:16 PM (O0L6N)
179
>>> tell my wife I wouldn't go into Mexico for any reason under the sun because it's a corrupt shithole and the cops are as crooked as the crooks, and she tells me that its not so bad in the resort areas.
people have proposed a trip to mexico, including myself, and I've told them to, as gently as possible, go fuck themselves sideways with that lunacy.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 04:17 PM (LCRYB)
180
148 But how many crimes have compelling physical evidence? Trying to solve my FIL' s murder we have lots of compelling circumstantial evidence but zero physical or forensic evidence. I can't even get the DA to actively make inquiries.
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon a
Any chance they would or could do touch dna?
Posted by: Waldo at April 05, 2013 04:18 PM (xY6Ip)
181
>>> tell my wife I wouldn't go into Mexico for any reason under the sun because it's a corrupt shithole and the cops are as crooked as the crooks, and she tells me that its not so bad in the resort areas.
people have proposed a trip to mexico, including myself, and I've told them to, as gently as possible, go fuck themselves sideways with that lunacy.
***
That goes double for people who talk of leaving the U.S. for greener pastures in.... South America.
Yeah, right!
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 04:18 PM (piMMO)
183
171 You've been had.
Posted by: Adjoran at April 05, 2013 08:18 PM (9uOra)
_____________
How?
Posted by: tasker at April 05, 2013 04:19 PM (r2PLg)
184
your tax dollars at work:
Obama to fund $100 million NASA project to lasso asteroid and move it closer to the moon for astronauts to explore in 2021
Posted by: Jones in CO at April 05, 2013 04:19 PM (8sCoq)
185
Who cares?
I just caught a 9 1/2 in bluegill a bit ago.
It's gonna be a good year folks.
Back after bit. Picking up a pizza.
Posted by: teej at April 05, 2013 04:20 PM (3R0Zs)
186
168 >>> tell my wife I wouldn't go into Mexico for any reason under the sun because it's a corrupt shithole and the cops are as crooked as the crooks, and she tells me that its not so bad in the resort areas.
people have proposed a trip to mexico, including myself, and I've told them to, as gently as possible, go fuck themselves sideways with that lunacy.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 08:17 PM (LCRYB)
But on the positive side the corruption in Mexico is cheap and relatively well-run. So there's that.
people have proposed a trip to mexico, including myself, and I've told them to, as gently as possible, go fuck themselves sideways with that lunacy.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 08:17 PM (LCRYB)
But on the positive side the corruption in Mexico is cheap and relatively well-run. So there's that.
Posted by: Mætenloch at April 05, 2013 04:20 PM (pAlYe)
187
In case any SMOD fans missed it, I recommend a quick Bing: Clube Napier coherent catastrophism & Firestone Younger Dryas impact theory.
Climate change could be a big problem, for none of the reasons the consensus of scientists emphasizes.
Posted by: Beagle at April 05, 2013 04:20 PM (sOtz/)
188
I heard the distant rumble of a banhammer.
Posted by: Tobacco Road at April 05, 2013 04:20 PM (4Mv1T)
189
But how many crimes have compelling physical evidence?
Crime of passion murders, quite a few. The people involved aren't thinking straight enough to do a thorough cleanup most of the time.
The random shit, like a body found robbed and stabbed/shot in Central Park several hours/days after the killing is a whole different thing. Those get solved when someone opens their mouth bragging about it.
Crimes with no bodies involved, like burglary, rarely even get anything other than cursory examination for any evidence unless its real obvious, like blood on a busted window. The cops are there to document your loss for the insurance claim, not much more.
Crime of passion murders, quite a few. The people involved aren't thinking straight enough to do a thorough cleanup most of the time.
The random shit, like a body found robbed and stabbed/shot in Central Park several hours/days after the killing is a whole different thing. Those get solved when someone opens their mouth bragging about it.
Crimes with no bodies involved, like burglary, rarely even get anything other than cursory examination for any evidence unless its real obvious, like blood on a busted window. The cops are there to document your loss for the insurance claim, not much more.
Posted by: @PurpAv at April 05, 2013 04:21 PM (/gHaE)
191
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at April 05, 2013 08:09 PM (Gk3SS)
Yes. Amazing.
Please disarm yourself because the police will take care of you and have your best interests at heart.
Yes. Amazing.
Please disarm yourself because the police will take care of you and have your best interests at heart.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 04:21 PM (0zDXv)
192
The correct spelling of the prosecuter's name is MANGINA.
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 05, 2013 04:21 PM (UI2eN)
193
if anyone's remotely interested in this, let me once again recommend "Murder in Italy" with a side of "Monster of Florence" for the bg on this prosecutor, and then enjoy that judge's complete acquittal.
I just read the judge's acquittal a few days ago. Until then I had been 99.96% convinced she was innocent and this was fucking bullshit from the get-go. I suppose it's Appeal to Authority, but it was lovely to read the judge's just call bullshit on everything.
I have to tell you, much of the prosecution case makes absolutely no sense. I don't know how to explain this, except like this: Alice in Wonderland. Presenting facts and then deducing the something that no only FAILS to flow from those facts, but is in fact EXPRESSLY CONTRADICTED by those facts.
So if A + B suggests C, the prosecutor says instead that A + B suggests Opposite C.
Here's an example: They thought the break in was staged. Why? Because it was made to appear that a rock was used to smash the window from the outside, but in fact the window was smashed from the inside, to make it look like a break in.
How do we know this? Well, because all the glass fell inside the apartment and there's no glass outside the window, on the ground beneath it.
Think about that for a moment. Think about which way glass actually falls when you smash IN a window from the outside.
Think about it.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 04:22 PM (LCRYB)
194
Come on Addison--you gotta have more than that.
Posted by: tasker at April 05, 2013 04:23 PM (r2PLg)
195
If not Mexico,why not Russia,China,Turkey or maybe Saudi Arabia?
Posted by: steevy at April 05, 2013 04:23 PM (9XBK2)
197
The correct spelling of the prosecuter's name is MANGINA.
***
His first and middle names are Big and Honkin'
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 04:23 PM (piMMO)
198
Might I suggest you change the prosecutor's name to Mangina? It seems --- how do you say in English --- more fitting to someone of his type.
Posted by: The Great Mangina at April 05, 2013 04:24 PM (qYvEa)
200
I do not understand how they can try someone who has already been acquited.
Posted by: FenelonSoke at April 05, 2013 04:25 PM (bddKN)
202
NDH & mama winger
Thanks for that. While we are on the subject of solving crimes do any of you Morons have experience taking photos through a high power spotting scope? Planning a covert surveillance of our own personal dirtbag.
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at April 05, 2013 04:25 PM (pxDth)
203
Maybe they never had that show in Italia.
Posted by: Tobacco Road at April 05, 2013 04:26 PM (4Mv1T)
204
In cases of public interest they put out false details about the crimes because there are nuts who will confess just for the notoriety.
Posted by: steevy at April 05, 2013 04:26 PM (9XBK2)
205
190 Double jeopardy not apply?
Posted by: Tobacco Road at April 05, 2013 08:25 PM (4Mv1T)
Apparently not under Italian law.
Posted by: Tobacco Road at April 05, 2013 08:25 PM (4Mv1T)
Apparently not under Italian law.
Posted by: Mætenloch at April 05, 2013 04:26 PM (pAlYe)
206
How do we know this? Well, because all the glass fell inside the
apartment and there's no glass outside the window, on the ground beneath
it.
What the hell, is this a bad Scooby Doo episode?
What the hell, is this a bad Scooby Doo episode?
Posted by: AmishDude at April 05, 2013 04:26 PM (T0NGe)
207
I do not understand how they can try someone who has already been acquited
***
Which is why, from what I have heard, no civilized nation is compelled to extradite her.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 04:26 PM (piMMO)
208
The correct spelling of the prosecuter's name is MANGINA.
***
His first and middle names are Big and Honkin'
***
His first and middle names are Big and Honkin'
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead
**************
I thought it was "Stinky"?
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 05, 2013 04:26 PM (UI2eN)
209
How do we know this? Well, because all the glass fell inside the
apartment and there's no glass outside the window, on the ground beneath
it.
What the hell, is this a bad Scooby Doo episode?
***
It's like an alternate universe.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 04:27 PM (piMMO)
210
Double jeopardy not apply?
Posted by: Tobacco Road at April 05, 2013 08:25 PM (4Mv1T)
Apparently not under Italian law.
Also, not under Canadian law.
Posted by: Tobacco Road at April 05, 2013 08:25 PM (4Mv1T)
Apparently not under Italian law.
Also, not under Canadian law.
Posted by: Alex Trebek at April 05, 2013 04:27 PM (T0NGe)
211
These sites host extremely active avatars, many proclaiming to be lawyers, forensic experts, criminologists, but who never reveal their true identities. Researching my 2011 book on the Knox case The Fatal Gift of Beauty, I met both moderators behind the acronymic websites. In 2009, I sat down with TJMK founder Peter Quennell, who has always claimed he started the site to make sure that no one forgot the victim. A stout, ruddy Englishman living in New Jersey, he had been holding out the carrot of introducing me to the elusive Kercher family. He seemed vastly knowledgeable and connected. At the time, I also believed that Amanda Knox could be, indeed, a Charles Manson behind a pretty face.
After a month in Italy doing reporting, however, I realized that some of the “facts” on Quennell’s website didn’t seem to be in the police record in Italy. I emailed him to ask where he had found out that Knox and Sollecito met police standing outside the murder house with a mop and bucket in hand. That damning incident was nowhere in the record, not even the prosecutor would confirm it, nor had Italy’s Polizia Scientifica ever tested such items, which would surely have offered up some useful DNA evidence, had they been used to clean blood.
http://world.time.com/2013/03/29/the-amanda-
knox-haters-society-how-they-learned-to-hate-
me-too/#ixzz2PddUIDi2
**********
Looks like that author went in thinking she was guilty and after looking at how bad the evidence was--changed their mind.
That kind of offsets the Coulter column.
Posted by: tasker at April 05, 2013 04:27 PM (r2PLg)
212
Think about which way glass actually falls when you smash IN a window from the outside.
Very crafty how they staged that. The Mossad links are obvious.
Very crafty how they staged that. The Mossad links are obvious.
Posted by: @PurpAv at April 05, 2013 04:27 PM (/gHaE)
213
What the hell, is this a bad Scooby Doo episode?
Posted by: AmishDude at April 05, 2013 08:26 PM (T0NGe)
Italy as a bad Scooby Doo episode? Why, yes, I think the metaphor works.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 04:27 PM (bxiXv)
214
Even in the US they get around double jeopardy with dual sovereignty. State screws up, on to federal civil rights violations for the same transaction.
Posted by: Beagle at April 05, 2013 04:27 PM (sOtz/)
215
Seamus- The only two spotting scopes I have used had a gray/brown fuzzy smudge in the center of the optics. Not sure why, and both scopes were unrelated to each other, different brands, and only one owned by me. I thought it was just mine, but no. Maybe another Moron will have a better idea.
Posted by: Tobacco Road at April 05, 2013 04:27 PM (4Mv1T)
216
There is no double jeopardy in Italy.
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 05, 2013 04:28 PM (UI2eN)
217
I thought it was "Stinky"?
***
Nah. That's just his childhood nickname.
Speaking of, want to bet he was an insufferable douche, even as a child?
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 04:28 PM (piMMO)
218
>> But on the positive side the corruption in Mexico is cheap and relatively well-run. So there's that.
So it's the kind of place where, when you bribe a cop, he stays bribed?
Cuz that's important.
So it's the kind of place where, when you bribe a cop, he stays bribed?
Cuz that's important.
Posted by: GnuBreed at April 05, 2013 04:28 PM (cHZB7)
219
I am so sick of conspiracy nuts including the euro conspiracy nuts. France came out early with the 9/11 bs. The book stores were filled with stupid books on it.
There is a reason why English is better than other languages. You say want you mean in English. In French and Italian there is all these gobbly gook tenses and nobody can ever make a direct and concise statement.
Posted by: Waldo at April 05, 2013 04:28 PM (xY6Ip)
220
@162 That has the same angle of innocent people being tied to the real killer with a total lack of evidence, in this case *despite the killer confessing that he acted alone*.
I get the bad feeling that this kind of thing happens a lot.
-----------------------------
Not just confessions. I've got a friend who used to be a public defender. And while she freely admits that most of her "clients" probably deserved to be behind bars for what they were arrested for doing, she's also told me at least one story in which there are some pretty strong hints that the prosecution "helped" their witness to "remember" what the defendent looked like after the witness failed to identify the defendent at the witness's first court appearence.
Posted by: junior at April 05, 2013 04:28 PM (UWFpX)
221
Apparently not under Italian law.
Posted by: Mætenloch at April 05, 2013 08:26 PM (pAlYe)
Well, then the perky-breasted young lady should stay out of Italy and call it a draw.
Posted by: Mætenloch at April 05, 2013 08:26 PM (pAlYe)
Well, then the perky-breasted young lady should stay out of Italy and call it a draw.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 04:28 PM (0zDXv)
222
>>> I do not understand how they can try someone who has already been acquited.
she was acquitted by a reviewing appeals court.
The italian system is different. An even higher court has sent the case back down to the first level for review.
First level is the trial court.
Second level is appeals-- but interestingly, they can patrol for errors of fact and not just errors of law (the latter is what our courts do, generally). The 2nd level court looked at the facts and said "Everything this guy just said is bullshit."
Then it went up to the highest court, which has ordered a first-level court re-trial of everything.
It all makes a kind of sense once you un-bias yourself from the idea that American procedure is the only way to do it. It's different than ours but not necessarily "bad." Questions of procedure are always matters of opinion.
The system is also complicated by the fact that the appeals court ALWAYS pronounces upon your guilt. A jury convicts you, but in Italy, you're not guilty until the reviewing court AGREES with the trial court.
Here, the reviewing court decidedly did not agree and tossed it all out.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 04:29 PM (LCRYB)
223
What the hell, is this a bad Scooby Doo episode?
Posted by: AmishDude at April 05, 2013 08:26 PM (T0NGe)
Italy as a bad Scooby Doo episode? Why, yes, I think the metaphor works. Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 05, 2013 08:27 PM (bxiXv)
Italy as Scrappy Doo does work, yes.
Posted by: AmishDude at April 05, 2013 08:26 PM (T0NGe)
Italy as a bad Scooby Doo episode? Why, yes, I think the metaphor works. Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 05, 2013 08:27 PM (bxiXv)
Italy as Scrappy Doo does work, yes.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at April 05, 2013 04:29 PM (Gk3SS)
224
Posted by: Tobacco Road at April 05, 2013 08:27 PM (4Mv1T)
You sure it wasn't a chocolaty thumb print?
You sure it wasn't a chocolaty thumb print?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 04:30 PM (0zDXv)
225
191 NDH & mama winger
Thanks for that. While we are on the subject of solving crimes do any of you Morons have experience taking photos through a high power spotting scope? Planning a covert surveillance of our own personal dirtbag.
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at April 05, 2013 08:25 PM (pxDth)
Funny you should ask but yes.
Search for "spotting scope camera adapter" on Amazon and you'll find several under $50 that can work with almost any digital camera. It can be a bit tricky to get the camera in the focal plane depending on the eye relief of the scope.
Thanks for that. While we are on the subject of solving crimes do any of you Morons have experience taking photos through a high power spotting scope? Planning a covert surveillance of our own personal dirtbag.
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at April 05, 2013 08:25 PM (pxDth)
Funny you should ask but yes.
Search for "spotting scope camera adapter" on Amazon and you'll find several under $50 that can work with almost any digital camera. It can be a bit tricky to get the camera in the focal plane depending on the eye relief of the scope.
Posted by: Mætenloch at April 05, 2013 04:30 PM (pAlYe)
226
So it's the kind of place where, when you bribe a cop, he stays bribed?
No, you can't buy them. You gotta rent'em by the hour, but the hourly rates are quite affordable.
No, you can't buy them. You gotta rent'em by the hour, but the hourly rates are quite affordable.
Posted by: @PurpAv at April 05, 2013 04:30 PM (/gHaE)
227
I don't know if you have been following this story, but the NRCC chief of staff came out with a scathing attack against the base of the party, complaining about the tea party and "professional right."
Well I guess they got their phone lines melted, because the communications director came out today and apologized for "inartful" language the first guy used and tried to say he was attacking inside-the-beltway conservative activists because they were diverting money from the RNC.
The apology was bullshit. This is not what the first guy, Shields is his name, was saying. He was talking about grassroots groups who are pushing republicans to the right.
But lets take his apology as it is: instead of attacking the left, and honoring the base, and THEN on that basis fundraising, he's going after conservative groups who fundraise on the basis of being more in tune with the base than the RNC.
This attitude is pervasive at the top. This is not an off-the-cuff mistake. Who among us here would "accidentally" attack conservatives? What a pile of garbage, and not the Ewok kind.
I've written them two stern letters calling for the firing of these two idiots, Shields and Spicer. You can read the story on Breitbart. Maybe you want to write to them too.
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 04:30 PM (I2LwF)
228
What the hell, is this a bad Scooby Doo episode?
Posted by: AmishDude at April 05, 2013 08:26 PM (T0NGe)
Hey man, Velma would never make that mistake.
Posted by: elizabethe at April 05, 2013 04:31 PM (qPCAa)
229
Nah. That's just his childhood nickname.
Speaking of, want to bet he was an insufferable douche, even as a child?
Speaking of, want to bet he was an insufferable douche, even as a child?
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse
***********
Hey, douche is a useful product and has feelings ya know?
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 05, 2013 04:31 PM (UI2eN)
230
This attitude is pervasive at the top. This is not
an off-the-cuff mistake. Who among us here would "accidentally" attack
conservatives? What a pile of garbage, and not the Ewok kind.
I've written them two stern letters calling for the firing of these two idiots, Shields and Spicer. You can read the story on Breitbart. Maybe you want to write to them too. Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 08:30 PM (I2LwF)
This is a good point. Our circular firing squads are generally well aimed.
I've written them two stern letters calling for the firing of these two idiots, Shields and Spicer. You can read the story on Breitbart. Maybe you want to write to them too. Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 08:30 PM (I2LwF)
This is a good point. Our circular firing squads are generally well aimed.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at April 05, 2013 04:32 PM (Gk3SS)
231
I think Amanda Knox is innocent, and ought to be set free immediately.
Posted by: Clark Rockerfeller at April 05, 2013 04:32 PM (I2LwF)
232
Hey man, Velma would never make that mistake.
I just never figured any case in real life would even have the glass-on-the-wrong-side-of-the-window thing.
I just never figured any case in real life would even have the glass-on-the-wrong-side-of-the-window thing.
Posted by: AmishDude at April 05, 2013 04:33 PM (T0NGe)
233
>>>Looks like that author went in thinking she was guilty and after looking at how bad the evidence was--changed their mind.
yeah all the books are about her being innocent -- except the one written by the victim's dad. Who, let's face it, is probably too emotionally conntected to this case to be a good guide.
Think about this: Your daughter is murdered. You meet people in Italy who say "We're going to get the people who did this," and are very kind to you. Then they say "We got her!"
You're probably going to be emotionally biased in favor of those people.
But I haven't heard of anyone who's gone from thinking she's innocent to thinking she's guilty. It all goes the opposite way-- I assumed she was guilty. Most accused people are!
When everyone who looks at the evidence winds up moving from "probably guilty" to "probably innocent" (or, more commonly: 100% no-doubt completely innocent)... well, make your own judgments.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 04:33 PM (LCRYB)
234
219 I have'nt followed it but I read somewhere that Ben Howe blasted the Tea Party too at Buzzfeed.
Posted by: steevy at April 05, 2013 04:33 PM (9XBK2)
235
"I have to tell you I'm reading the media treatment here and I'm
having a hard look at myself as far as sensationalizing and stuff. I'm
sort of having a crisis of confidence, now that I see OTHER people using
this sort of technique to such odious ends."
Crises of confidence are good for the soul, Ace, no worries. Is a sign you are sane. One of the things that keeps ME coming back to the blog is the fact that you allow spirited debates and differing opinions and ego deflating in the comments. The Morons are not a shy bunch, they will let you know if you have gone off the deep and and put you some effin' knowledge, and more importantly you will let them. Just being aware that odious Javert-like blogging behavior is something you could be susceptible to is half the battle.
Crises of confidence are good for the soul, Ace, no worries. Is a sign you are sane. One of the things that keeps ME coming back to the blog is the fact that you allow spirited debates and differing opinions and ego deflating in the comments. The Morons are not a shy bunch, they will let you know if you have gone off the deep and and put you some effin' knowledge, and more importantly you will let them. Just being aware that odious Javert-like blogging behavior is something you could be susceptible to is half the battle.
Posted by: LizLem at April 05, 2013 04:34 PM (ijXVY)
236
Thanks My Queen.
In general, save your ammo for the democrats. That's what they tell us.
But it's time to forget about the democrats for a while since they're not going anywhere, and concentrate fire on the RNC. These assholes all need to go and be replaced by conservatives and libertarians.
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 04:34 PM (I2LwF)
237
It seems as if the prosecutor is SO obsessed with the occult as to have personal knowledge of it.
The bastard has probably skinned a few cats in his lifetime.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 04:34 PM (piMMO)
238
Give me a second crack at those Dukies, I'll cook em all.
btw, that Double Jeopardy stuff? Extremism-Racism.
Posted by: Nike MyDong at April 05, 2013 04:35 PM (+kznc)
239
Well, then the perky-breasted young lady should stay out of Italy and call it a draw.
Objection, Your Honor! Assumes facts not in evidence
You CANNOT use a phrase like "perky breasted" and then fail to produce evidence.
Section 4456.1 of the Moron Code.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 04:35 PM (TxbzW)
240
So, what are the chances that Coulter will retract her asinine column?
Posted by: Waldo at April 05, 2013 04:36 PM (xY6Ip)
241
215 So it's the kind of place where, when you bribe a cop, he stays bribed?
No, you can't buy them. You gotta rent'em by the hour, but the hourly rates are quite affordable.
Posted by: @PurpAv at April 05, 2013 08:30 PM (/gHaE)
And they'll stay bought long enough for you to get out of Mexican territory.
No, you can't buy them. You gotta rent'em by the hour, but the hourly rates are quite affordable.
Posted by: @PurpAv at April 05, 2013 08:30 PM (/gHaE)
And they'll stay bought long enough for you to get out of Mexican territory.
Posted by: Mætenloch at April 05, 2013 04:36 PM (pAlYe)
242
ace, tell me about that CPAP machine.
I have sleep apnea, but haven't sought treatment because, frankly, I'm terrified of having to sleep with one of those masks on.
Posted by: Warden at April 05, 2013 04:36 PM (HzhBE)
243
Maet-
I've seen adaptors in the $300 to $400 range. I've been experimenting with a technique called digiscoping, which uses a handmade adaptor to narrow the entry eye of the camera, and just positions the camera as close to the eyepiece of the scope as possible. I can't figure out whether to use the autofocus or manually focus and can't tell if I should be using a short focal length lens or a zoom lens on my camera. Any thoughts?
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at April 05, 2013 04:36 PM (pxDth)
244
Is there no mechanism in Italy to Nifong this idiot prosecutor or Is he one of the govt. untouchables , like we have here ? Glances sideways while rolling eyes at Janet Reno , Holder .
Posted by: awkward davies at April 05, 2013 04:37 PM (USjX1)
245
The breathing machine for sleep apnea is actually very good. Go get treatment Warden.
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 04:37 PM (I2LwF)
246
As for the camera and spotting scope, try to find an adapter that will allow you to attach the camera directly to the spotting scope. Not all camera models support this.
But that's the way to do it, it you can. It turns the spotting scope into a giant telephoto lens.
No, I've never done it myself.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2013 04:37 PM (sdi6R)
247
ace, tell me about that CPAP machine.
I have sleep apnea, but haven't sought treatment because, frankly, I'm terrified of having to sleep with one of those masks on.
***
Not Ace, but from personal experience, although I am discontinuing the treatment, the mask and the pressure posed no problems at all.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 04:38 PM (piMMO)
248
yeah all the books are about her being innocent -- except the one written by the victim's dad. Who, let's face it, is probably too emotionally conntected to this case to be a good guide.
______________
(I ended up writing that in a grammatically incorrect fashion.)
But it seems like anyone who invested significant time comes out thinking she's innocent.
Also had a close family member get two different DNA results after medical testing, (not criminal) but it has freaked me out ever since about DNA evidence.
Probably the process is different who knows.
Posted by: tasker at April 05, 2013 04:39 PM (r2PLg)
249
my mom uses a sleep apnea machine. She doesn't have any problems with it.
Can't hurt to try it.
Posted by: elizabethe at April 05, 2013 04:39 PM (qPCAa)
250
Has anyone pondered my comment 182, the mystery of the falling glass?
It's not a typo on my part. They know the break-in was staged to merely look as if the window was smashed in from the outside because... there's no glass outside the window.
So they know it's fake.
When I read that I had to re-read it, thinking I'd missed something, or there was a typographical error.
Nope.
What you just read makes absolutely no sense at all but it is part of the evidence offered.
They also assert that no one could possibly break into a second-floor window from the outside (even one with one of those trellis-bar covers on the window below, making for a handy ladder)... despite people making videotapes of themselves doing just that, breaking into this very window.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 04:39 PM (LCRYB)
251
If she refuses to return and they get some sort of warrant out on her, I wonder if she will have to avoid a number of countries in case they arrest her and send her back to Italy.
Posted by: Waldo at April 05, 2013 04:39 PM (xY6Ip)
252
And someone mentioned exercise to you, ace. My wife bought me a 10lb medicine ball for Christmas in 2011 (I've since bought a 20lb one, too) and it's INCREDIBLE what a great workout you can get out of one of those things.
Some days I only do 20-25 minutes of real high intensity stuff. It's hard, but I feel great afterwards. I used to be more into free weights, but I really like using my own body weight along w/a medicine ball because it's better cardio and gives you more functional strength.
I'm in better shape than I have been in years.
Posted by: Warden at April 05, 2013 04:39 PM (HzhBE)
253
I wear the mask most nights. Some nights I sleep on the couch. Because I'm married. Those nights, I don't.
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 04:39 PM (I2LwF)
254
I have sleep apnea, but haven't sought treatment because, frankly, I'm terrified of having to sleep with one of those masks on.
Take it from another guy who needs one.
Go get one.
The masks they have now are whisper light and 10 times better than even 5 years ago.
But the first time you wake up well rested you will feel like a new man. I looked at my wife the next day and said, "Oh, so this is what sleep feels like"
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 04:40 PM (TxbzW)
256
How much of a pain in the ass is one of those machines? Is it awkward to sleep with? Noisy?
Posted by: Warden at April 05, 2013 04:40 PM (HzhBE)
257
Has anyone pondered my comment 182, the mystery of the falling glass?
***
Everyone has pondered it.
It has been deemed the Scooby Doo theory.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 04:40 PM (piMMO)
258
>>>ace, tell me about that CPAP machine.
I have sleep apnea, but haven't sought treatment because, frankly, I'm terrified of having to sleep with one of those masks on.
don't be terrified. it's absolutely nothing at all. At least for me. It bothers some people but not me, at all.
If you're one of the people bothered by it, they have a type of cpap that just plugs into your nostrils (it's soft, it's called "nasal pillows," it's very comfortable) and which doesn't cover your face at all.
I can't use that because I'm what you call (I hate saying this) A Confirmed Mouth Breather. So I use the full-face mask.
But it's easy to get used to. Takes about a week before you're barely aware of it.
Just to prepare yourself psychologically: I always think of Luke in the Bacta tank in Empire Strikes Back. Like, to make you think of the mask as a good thing, as a comforting thing.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 04:42 PM (LCRYB)
259
@222
Ditto. I went from don't know but probably guilty to some poor American girl is getting railroaded, perky breasts or no. And I got this way mainly reading papers which had all but convicted her previously. Even the UK papers eventually began to note the prosecutorial, ah, irregularity.
Posted by: Beagle at April 05, 2013 04:42 PM (sOtz/)
260
239 Has anyone pondered my comment 182, the mystery of the falling glass?
Hey! We figured it out. We are no Italian prosecutors!
Posted by: Waldo at April 05, 2013 04:42 PM (xY6Ip)
261
The moral of the story is, don't get married unless you like sleeping on couches.
Actually, that's a terrible moral... You can sleep on the couch all you want if you're single.
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 04:42 PM (I2LwF)
262
It's not a typo on my part. They know the break-in was staged to merely look as if the window was smashed in from the outside because... there's no glass outside the window.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 08:39 PM (LCRYB)
In other words, the discussion went like this:
"Hmmm.. all the glass is INSIDE the house. Ah-ha!!!! It's too perfect! Like it was STAGED! Wouldn't some tiny sliver of glass fall out of the window when the villain pulled his hand back? It much have been an inside job!"
So what you are telling me is these guys watch too much TV.
Posted by: elizabethe at April 05, 2013 04:42 PM (qPCAa)
263
How much of a pain in the ass is one of those machines? Is it awkward to sleep with? Noisy?
Not very noisy at all. Took me two days to get used to the mask and the sound. TBH, it isn't any noisier than the breeze in the trees.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 04:43 PM (TxbzW)
265
Actually, that's a terrible moral... You can sleep on the couch all you want if you're single.
***
I can and do.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 04:43 PM (piMMO)
267
A Confirmed Mouth Breather.
______________
Gawd that would make a killer commenting handle or trolling puppet name.
LOL!
Posted by: tasker at April 05, 2013 04:44 PM (r2PLg)
268
>>>How much of a pain in the ass is one of those machines? Is it awkward to sleep with? Noisy?
no, barely a problem. The first week you Notice it, of course. Then it's like a hat. You notice a hat when you're first wearing it Eventually it's just there and you're not aware of it.
The noise level is low and further is a white noise sort of sound.
The annoying thing is this: if you have an illfitting mask, you'll have little streams of air puffing out by the corners of your eyes. that is more distracting. but that just means you need to get a mask that fits, or better adjust the one you're using.
There is no problem wearing the thing sleeping. even on your side, there's not much of a problem. (Though I usually wind up on my back.)
I'd recommend it. Even though, in my case, it has no really had any noticable change on my sleep or energy levels.
Apnea itself is bad, and can kill you.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 04:45 PM (LCRYB)
269
I have sleep apnea, but haven't sought treatment because, frankly, I'm terrified of having to sleep with one of those masks on.
Posted by: Warden at April 05, 2013 08:36 PM (HzhBE)
Saved my life. More than once.
I will not sugar-coat it, the new breed of machines are kind of annoying in some ways. I had the old Respironics M-series for 8 years and was totally comfortable with it, it's kind of a "white noise." The new one has this variable motor noise I can't get rid of - will probably switch machines soon. The owner of the place said he might be able to get his hands on a refurbished M-series (haven't been made in years).
The mask is the easiest part, in a way, but there are several kinds, you have to try different kinds. The "nasal pillow" things are the lightest but I don't even know why they push the nasal masks, I use a full-face and it's fine. I tried several methods but I only breathe through my nose with a full-face mask, if I try to force the issue I only breathe out of my mouth.
It takes time to adapt, but you can get a feel for different masks and machines at a DME that sells them. Get a long hose. No matter what you do, if you have someone with you you'll end up blowing air on them.
I call it my "Darth Vader Machine." Over 8 years now.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 04:46 PM (bxiXv)
271
Alright, two last CPAP questions. Did your insurance cover it? And do you buy one or rent it?
I should probably do the sleep clinic thing this year before Obamacare kicks in and my insurance skyrockets.
Posted by: Warden at April 05, 2013 04:46 PM (HzhBE)
272
I'd recommend it. Even though, in my case, it has no really had any noticable change on my sleep or energy levels.
Apnea itself is bad, and can kill you.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 08:45 PM (LCRYB)
ace, if you haven't, you should read the book The Perfect Health Diet. They have a whole chapter on circadian rhythms and things you can do to improve them. They seem to be crucial for health because when you sleep is when all your immune function goes into overdrive to heal your body.
just a suggestion to help my favorite blogger.
Posted by: elizabethe at April 05, 2013 04:47 PM (qPCAa)
273
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 08:43 PM (TxbzW)
Okay, you're the one who is getting the sleep. What about your wife? Can she hear the machine?
Okay, you're the one who is getting the sleep. What about your wife? Can she hear the machine?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 04:48 PM (0zDXv)
274
Ace, we got your 182. Mangina is a lunatic hack.
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 05, 2013 04:48 PM (UI2eN)
275
176 In case any SMOD fans missed it, I recommend a quick Bing: Clube Napier coherent catastrophism & Firestone Younger Dryas impact theory.
Climate change could be a big problem, for none of the reasons the consensus of scientists emphasizes.
Posted by: Beagle at April 05, 2013 08:20 PM (sOtz/)
That's interesting. I've long been interested in the Younger Dryas impact theory. It supposedly happened 12,900 years ago, when North America was thoroughly populated by modern humans.
I can't find the link now, but years ago I read that the natives of eastern Canada have a legend that one day the sky caught fire, and the only people who survived were those who jumped into rivers and lakes until it passed. When they emerged, they found widespread devastation.
But that's just a silly old Indian myth. They were a primitive and superstitious bunch. Nobody takes that sort of thing seriously.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2013 04:48 PM (sdi6R)
276
Alright, two last CPAP questions. Did your insurance cover it? And do you buy one or rent it?
I should probably do the sleep clinic thing this year before Obamacare kicks in and my insurance skyrockets.
***
My insurance covered the device and the required sleep tests. As the machine is $1200, they rent rather than purchase until they can confirm I am using it regularly.
There is an SD card that records usage.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 04:49 PM (piMMO)
277
Not very noisy at all. Took me two days to get used to the mask and the sound. TBH, it isn't any noisier than the breeze in the trees.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 08:43 PM (TxbzW)
Which machine, please? I had to get a new one recently after 8 years with an old one, and it seems the new ones are *more* annoying than the old - but I haven't tried them all.
I actually gave a styrofoam cooler sitting on a base of blankets over the new one to knock down the noise. After three weeks. But some of it comes through the hose. Not liking the new smaller-diameter hoses, don't need the heater, never had rainout problems.
The old one was actually a more comforting white-noise sound. I know some are louder than others.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 04:49 PM (bxiXv)
278
So what you are telling me is these guys watch too much TV.
Posted by: elizabethe at April 05, 2013 08:42 PM (qPCAa)
Annnnd obligatory - http://youtu.be/RcC65zuhLPM (NSFW)
Annnnd obligatory - http://youtu.be/RcC65zuhLPM (NSFW)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at April 05, 2013 04:49 PM (Gk3SS)
279
>>>The mask is the easiest part, in a way, but there are several kinds, you have to try different kinds. The "nasal pillow" things are the lightest but I don't even know why they push the nasal masks, I use a full-face and it's fine. I tried several methods but I only breathe through my nose with a full-face mask, if I try to force the issue I only breathe out of my mouth.
the least obtrusive one is nasal pillows, then nasal mask, then full-face.
I agree with the commenter, though: The full-face mask is not really a problem.
If it is a problem, then you can do the nasal pillows, which isn't even a mask -- it's just tube going up to your nose. Pressure is created by the "pillows" part of the thing inflating to gently fill your nostril like a small balloon.
I would prefer to use that but I cannot train myself to keep my mouth closed at night so I need the full face mask.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 04:50 PM (LCRYB)
280
I can't believe Eric Mangini screwed this up too. He seemed so smart when he has Tom Brady on his team...
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 04:50 PM (I2LwF)
281
264 Wendigo and Thunderbird are real too!(just joking but most myths have some basis in fact)
Posted by: steevy at April 05, 2013 04:51 PM (9XBK2)
282
Alright, two last CPAP questions. Did your insurance cover it? And do you buy one or rent it?
My primary insurance picked up 80% and my secondary covered the rest. YMMV
The only thing I'd tell you is....don't go with Apria Heathcare. Their entire billing operation is incompetent.
Don't know if you have a NeighborCare clinic where you are, but they're awesome.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 04:51 PM (TxbzW)
283
I should probably do the sleep clinic thing this year before Obamacare kicks in and my insurance skyrockets.
Posted by: Warden at April 05, 2013 08:46 PM (HzhBE)
Definitely do that. Then you will know.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 04:52 PM (bxiXv)
284
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at April 05, 2013 08:49 PM (Gk3SS)
couldn't open it, but I laughed anyway because I'm sure it was really funny. =)
Posted by: elizabethe at April 05, 2013 04:52 PM (qPCAa)
285
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 08:50 PM (LCRYB)
How was the sleep study?
This is actually interesting stuff, and in my case, useful. My wife has a bitch of a time sleeping, and I suspect some sort of breathing irregularity.
How was the sleep study?
This is actually interesting stuff, and in my case, useful. My wife has a bitch of a time sleeping, and I suspect some sort of breathing irregularity.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 04:53 PM (0zDXv)
286
Which machine, please? I had to get a new one recently after 8 years with an old one, and it seems the new ones are *more* annoying than the old - but I haven't tried them all.
I started with the same one you had, the M series. Loved it. I have a Phillips BiPAP Pro now.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 04:53 PM (TxbzW)
287
couldn't open it, but I laughed anyway because I'm sure it was really funny. =)
Posted by: elizabethe at April 05, 2013 08:52 PM (qPCAa)
It's the Boondock Saints "Television is to blame for this!" clip.
It's the Boondock Saints "Television is to blame for this!" clip.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at April 05, 2013 04:54 PM (Gk3SS)
289
You summed up the situation for the writer and Knox very well. The prosecutor was also consulting a psychic who told him that Knox and her BF killed that poor girl because of the satanic cult.
This guy http://rttaveyinvestigations.wordpress.com/2013/03/20/amanda-knox-and-the-murder-of-meredith-k/ has a very good/complete perspective on the travesty/circus that went on there. Goes on.
This guy http://rttaveyinvestigations.wordpress.com/2013/03/20/amanda-knox-and-the-murder-of-meredith-k/ has a very good/complete perspective on the travesty/circus that went on there. Goes on.
Posted by: shan at April 05, 2013 04:55 PM (WEamb)
290
How was the sleep study?
A PITA.
You're tangled in so many leads and wires it's a wonder you get any sleep that night at all.
But once you're past that, it's all good.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 04:55 PM (TxbzW)
292
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at April 05, 2013 08:49 PM (Gk3SS)
A grand movie.
Well done young lady.
A grand movie.
Well done young lady.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 04:55 PM (0zDXv)
293
In the sleep study, they have you do a questionnaire. Then they attach like 100 electrodes to you. Then they put you in the mask. Then they watch you sleep for about 6 hours. Then you go home.
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 04:55 PM (I2LwF)
294
The only thing I'd tell you is....don't go with Apria Heathcare. Their entire billing operation is incompetent.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 08:51 PM (TxbzW)
If someone finds a DME supplier that is *actually* good, that would be nice, I see nothing but complaints.
My local ones are *nice-ish*, but there are competency issues. Had issues with Apria last time (and bought the old machine outright), but my Dad likes them (in another region).
I would buy outright unless my insurance demanded rentals, because prices are usually lower IME. Always compare prices.
Warranties are typically 2 years but my last machine lasted 8 before it flaked out.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 04:55 PM (bxiXv)
295
This is actually interesting stuff, and in my case, useful. My wife has a bitch of a time sleeping, and I suspect some sort of breathing irregularity.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 08:53 PM (0zDXv)
It IS interesting.
sleep can also be affected by diet and lifestyle things unrelated to breathing. Like when you eat carbs, if you are deficient in magnesium or melatonin, or if you have blue light in your room.
mentioned The Perfect Health Diet above. It has a chapter on sleep and circadian rhythm therapy that is fascinating.
(why does the word rhythm have such a fucked up spelling?)
Posted by: elizabethe at April 05, 2013 04:55 PM (qPCAa)
296
There's a reason, being Eyetalian, that I have not tried to find my relatives on a few trips to Italy. I'm afraid they may want to come and live with me. Plus when you go there and there's a Saint head here and a finger there, because the towns stole pieces from each other; you're asshole kinda puckers up. This is a different culture.
Posted by: Guido-Chair Dept. of Squid Diversity at April 05, 2013 04:56 PM (NQq8e)
297
@264 rickl
The theory survived the first round of attacks and many later papers verify the nanodiamonds and other indicia of some kind of impact or impact swarm causing an abrupt end to significant megafauna and the Clovis People.
It is pretty jarring to think about. That is not in distant geologic time. And it might support Clube and Napier. Basically, large comets occasionally swing in from the Kuiper Belt, usually break up, and cause massive problems in the inner solar system. But not at random. Thus "coherent" catastrophism. One paper links a particular collision of space rocks or a comet to the extinction of the dinosaurs a hundred million years later.
Posted by: Beagle at April 05, 2013 04:56 PM (sOtz/)
298
How was the sleep study?
****
Your doctor may give you a Lunesta to take the night of the study.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 04:56 PM (piMMO)
299
Okay, you're the one who is getting the sleep. What about your wife? Can she hear the machine?
Took her no time at allot adjust, because the alternative was sleeping next to a guy who sounded like a sawmill.
All. Night. Long.
No adjustment for her at all.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 04:57 PM (TxbzW)
300
I think my apnea has improved because I dropped 10lbs. (I'd like to drop another 10lbs, but losing weight in your 40's is a BITCH.)
But still, if I sleep on my back i stop breathing. I've trained myself to sleep on my side, but every now and then my wife has to nudge me awake and tell me to roll over.
Fuck.
I really don't want to do this, but I should.
Posted by: Warden at April 05, 2013 04:58 PM (HzhBE)
301
>>>How was the sleep study?
This is actually interesting stuff, and in my case, useful. My wife has a bitch of a time sleeping, and I suspect some sort of breathing irregularity.
...
fine. The annoying part is when they wake you up after confirming you have apnea to put the mask on you so they can begin testing to see what level of pressure you need.
Not going to lie, at first it's going to be a bitch, all uncomfortable and stuff. Plus they just woke you up in the middle of the night to fiddle with your face.
And the mask may not fit, so they'll have to try different ones. And the machine will not be at the right level at first. And at first it's weird to breathe out against positive pressure (that is, suddenly there's resistance to your exhaling).
And so on.
But that's just an hour out of the night, then hopefully you have the right mask and fall back asleep. The rest of it is just sitting in their bed reading, then sleeping. Oh and they hook up all the wires to your head and everything. That process takes like 40 minutes.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 04:58 PM (LCRYB)
302
Sleep Study: Don't try to get as comfortable as possible. Sleep on your back even if you normally don't, they will get more "events" that way almost every time - and thus a better sense of what your "normal" sleep is like over a longer term.
There are normally two "stages," one without treatment and one with. Ask if you can try on different masks before you start. If the mask is comfortable, ask if you can keep it (some clinics clean them, some use semi-disposable masks - some will not let you keep one because they cost like $100).
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 04:59 PM (bxiXv)
303
Bad link AtC.
Posted by: steevy at April 05, 2013 08:54 PM (9XBK2)
It works for me but I think maybe people are picking up the (NSFW) at the end. So once more with spirit. Um. It's Boondock Saints. Don't watch around the kiddies.
http://youtu.be/RcC65zuhLPM
Posted by: steevy at April 05, 2013 08:54 PM (9XBK2)
It works for me but I think maybe people are picking up the (NSFW) at the end. So once more with spirit. Um. It's Boondock Saints. Don't watch around the kiddies.
http://youtu.be/RcC65zuhLPM
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at April 05, 2013 04:59 PM (Gk3SS)
304
It's the Boondock Saints "Television is to blame for this!" clip.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at April 05, 2013 08:54 PM (Gk3SS)
ah, funny! You're right it WAS obligatory.
Posted by: elizabethe at April 05, 2013 04:59 PM (qPCAa)
305
Just as with the Florence case, there is another avenging police chief in Monica Napoleoni.
Posted by: luigi vercotti at April 05, 2013 04:59 PM (Jsiw/)
306
I really don't want to do this, but I should.
You should, because the lack of real sleep is screwing with your endocrine system.
Which....say it with me people....makes it hard to lose weight.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 05:00 PM (TxbzW)
307
>>>I really don't want to do this, but I should.
it's really very easy. Seriously, it's just calling up and making an appointment for a doctor visit, then scheduling an overnight.
The process consists of you bringing pajamas and a pillow to a nearby sleep center. Not exactly an ordeal.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 05:00 PM (LCRYB)
308
This is actually interesting stuff, and in my case, useful. My wife has a bitch of a time sleeping, and I suspect some sort of breathing irregularity.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 08:53 PM (0zDXv)
Test and be sure.
Not saying it solves everything, but *not sleeping* is very, very bad for you. Everything wears out faster, you end up with secondary ailments, and it stresses the heart and brain.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 05:00 PM (bxiXv)
309
232 Maet-
I've seen adaptors in the $300 to $400 range. I've been experimenting with a technique called digiscoping, which uses a handmade adaptor to narrow the entry eye of the camera, and just positions the camera as close to the eyepiece of the scope as possible. I can't figure out whether to use the autofocus or manually focus and can't tell if I should be using a short focal length lens or a zoom lens on my camera. Any thoughts?
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at April 05, 2013 08:36 PM (pxDth)
Well if you're looking for the highest quality image then you'll want to use an adapter so that the camera sensor is part of the overall lens system. But just mounting teh camera off the eye piece can work as well.
I've seen adaptors in the $300 to $400 range. I've been experimenting with a technique called digiscoping, which uses a handmade adaptor to narrow the entry eye of the camera, and just positions the camera as close to the eyepiece of the scope as possible. I can't figure out whether to use the autofocus or manually focus and can't tell if I should be using a short focal length lens or a zoom lens on my camera. Any thoughts?
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at April 05, 2013 08:36 PM (pxDth)
Well if you're looking for the highest quality image then you'll want to use an adapter so that the camera sensor is part of the overall lens system. But just mounting teh camera off the eye piece can work as well.
Posted by: Mætenloch at April 05, 2013 05:00 PM (pAlYe)
311
fine. The annoying part is when they wake you up after confirming you have apnea to put the mask on you so they can begin testing to see what level of pressure you need.
***
Hmmm. They did my test over two nights: One for identifying the problem and another for sleeping with the machine.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 05:03 PM (piMMO)
312
100% agree on the Knox case. I had been aware of the monster of Florence case and as soon as I heard it was the same guy I knew Knox was innocent.
However, on the Central Park rapist case, it was purely a political exoneration. Yes the delightful chap who confessed later on was guilty of being one of the youths who raped her and got away (the prosecution admitted they would never catch all the attackers). His sudden recollection of having done it and acting alone came after the statute of limitations was up (no penalty) and resulted in a cushy transfer (benefit).
So while he certainly did participate, I don't think his convenient admission of acting alone exonerates the other 5 in the slightest.
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 05:03 PM (H0Rot)
314
Anybody catch Zen? A short lived series but you see how corrupt Italy is. I think it was Francesco Quin's last role before he OD'd. The chick from Casino Royale is in it and very sexy.
Posted by: Waldo at April 05, 2013 05:03 PM (xY6Ip)
315
OH!
And I just learned that for those with mild to moderate apnea, a dental device may work as well as the CPAP.
I have been referred to a dentist and I'm just awaiting the appointment and clearance from insurance now.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 05:04 PM (piMMO)
316
Boondock Saints II. Disapointing. Overdone.
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 05, 2013 05:04 PM (UI2eN)
317
>>>There are normally two "stages," one without treatment and one with. Ask if you can try on different masks before you start.
yeah one is to diagnose WHETHER you have apnea, the other is to diagnose what level of pressure you need to defeat the apnea.
Often they do these in two different nights, which costs more (because it's two nights of observation). If you're pretty sure you have apnea, get them to do the "split" study, half the night to diagnose, half to find the right pressure. This costs more for one visit but less than two.
if you have insurance you shouldn't care all that much about cost. They might insist on the 2-night thing. But if they do, it's no big deal either way. It's like spending the night in a cheap hotel room.
You're being monitored so I would suggest you don't jerk off on site. Plan ahead and take care of it before you go over. You'll thank me later.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 05:04 PM (LCRYB)
318
Hmmm. They did my test over two nights: One for identifying the problem and another for sleeping with the machine.
They did mine jut as Ace described. Got so little sleep that night I felt like I had been hit by a truck as I staggered out of the sleep clinic.
It's all good now though.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 05:04 PM (TxbzW)
319
Hmmm. They did my test over two nights: One for identifying the problem and another for sleeping with the machine.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 09:03 PM (piMMO)
That would be better because they need a minimum number of events over so many hours. But, you know, money.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 05:05 PM (bxiXv)
320
You're being monitored so I would suggest you don't jerk off on site. Plan ahead and take care of it before you go over. You'll thank me later.
Can't wait for your colonoscopy tips.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 05:05 PM (TxbzW)
321
>>>Hmmm. They did my test over two nights: One for identifying the problem and another for sleeping with the machine.
they do it both ways, 2 nights and all-in-one split study. I did it all in one because I was paying out of my own pocket and wanted to save, and because I was 100% certain I had apnea.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 05:06 PM (LCRYB)
322
I've spent some happy moments in Perugia and Florence. Not sure I would go back after this bullshit.
Posted by: Waldo at April 05, 2013 05:06 PM (xY6Ip)
323
285 There's a reason, being Eyetalian, that I have not tried to find my relatives on a few trips to Italy. I'm afraid they may want to come and live with me. Plus when you go there and there's a Saint head here and a finger there, because the towns stole pieces from each other; you're asshole kinda puckers up. This is a different culture.
Posted by: Guido-Chair Dept. of Squid Diversity at April 05, 2013 08:56 PM (NQq8e)
Yep. I have American relatives who went to Italy and found some Italian relatives. They were chicken farmers who pestered their new American 'family' for cash. Screw that. I'd only want to see them to see if we look somewhat alike. I don't want to put up with the other nonsense. I have enough needy relatives here, I don't need to recruit more from another continent.
Posted by: Joejm65 at April 05, 2013 05:07 PM (XaMqH)
324
Can't wait for your colonoscopy tips.
Posted by: Sean Bannion
*****************
Don't get naked and assume the position in the waiting room?
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 05, 2013 05:07 PM (UI2eN)
325
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 08:58 PM (LCRYB)
So they confirmed apnea in you and in spite of the CPAP you find no improvement in quality of sleep?
So all it does is make sure you don't die (and that seems to be a fine goal in and of itself)?
So they confirmed apnea in you and in spite of the CPAP you find no improvement in quality of sleep?
So all it does is make sure you don't die (and that seems to be a fine goal in and of itself)?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 05:07 PM (0zDXv)
326
>>>They did mine jut as Ace described. Got so little sleep that night I felt like I had been hit by a truck as I staggered out of the sleep clinic.
Hah, me too, PLUS I couldn't fall asleep early. Didn't fall asleep until like 2am. Fortunately (?) I have such bad apnea they diagnosed it quickly and woke me up at 4:00am to put on the mask. I couldn't fall asleep until like 5am.
Then they wake you at 6:15 am and boot your ass out the door.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 05:08 PM (LCRYB)
327
Ace,
The world is a crazy place.
It's a good thing those things dont happen here.
Now, what if Knox had been threatened with charges of 80 years, but had been offered a plea bargain to get off with just 6 months? Why, she'd be a fool not to take it!
There is am even darker side to all of this, both there and here. So who killed the 7 couples? So who is responsible for the crimes that our heroic justice system has a way of convincing people to plead guilty to under threat of horrible things?
Hey, remember that post on Bill Ayers and how those kids got off scott free?
And how it's suddenly come out how it wast just Catholic priests molesting young boys, but not scout troop leaders, public school teachers... And cops and prosecutors were infact often involved, either directly or were informed of things and declined to prosecute/arrest.
Careful with the rabbit hole Ace. It's much deeper than you realize.
Posted by: Hopeless at April 05, 2013 05:08 PM (nzlU3)
328
Can't they use one of those head-sized spiders instead of a CPAP machine? It should fit perfectly.
AtC, what do you think?
AtC, what do you think?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 05:08 PM (0zDXv)
329
'There's a special place in Hell reserved for corrupt and/or overzealous prosecutors.
I think it's called Washington DC.'
Boston, too.
Posted by: Martha Coakley at April 05, 2013 05:08 PM (WE9pd)
330
I tried to get a late check-out, like at a hotel, and they were pretty firm: No, you have to leave now.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 05:09 PM (LCRYB)
331
[You're being monitored so I would suggest you don't jerk off on site. Plan ahead and take care of it before you go over. You'll thank me later.]
LMAO!
Please tell me you're joking.
Thanks everyone. I'm gonna get this taken care of . There's no doubt I have sleep apnea. My wife observes my stopped breathing and says it's terrifying.
Posted by: Warden at April 05, 2013 05:09 PM (HzhBE)
332
AtC, what do you think?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 09:08 PM (0zDXv)
Raptor. Chow.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 09:08 PM (0zDXv)
Raptor. Chow.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at April 05, 2013 05:09 PM (Gk3SS)
333
>>>
So all it does is make sure you don't die (and that seems to be a fine goal in and of itself)?
many people report a dramatic improvement in how rested they feel. I'm not one of them.
but yes, apnea is bad, obviously. Your brain winds up oxygen starved for five, eight minutes. This is bad. I don't want to lose IQ points.
Plus it causes heart attacks and stuff.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 05:10 PM (LCRYB)
334
Coakley was directly involved in the Gerald Amirault satanic panic case, too. That was a sad period of time in our country. The current pop tart gun hysteria is its intellectual descendent
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 05:10 PM (H0Rot)
335
Can't they use one of those head-sized spiders instead of a CPAP machine? It should fit perfectly.
AtC, what do you think?
****
You are just a little bit evil.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 05:10 PM (piMMO)
336
My wife observes my stopped breathing and says it's terrifying.
Posted by: Warden at April 05, 2013 09:09 PM (HzhBE)
WTF is wrong with you! Go do test! Go! Go!
Kids today!
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 05:11 PM (bxiXv)
337
So while he certainly did participate, I don't think his convenient admission of acting alone exonerates the other 5 in the slightest.
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 09:03 PM (H0Rot)
I didn't follow the acquittals nearly as close as the original case. I vaguely remember something about some of the 5 knowing details about the crime scene that were not released to the general public. If I'm correct (50/50), then a few of the original 5 aren't exactly innocent...
Posted by: Joejm65 at April 05, 2013 05:11 PM (XaMqH)
338
You're being monitored so I would suggest you don't jerk off on site.
Ace's Quality HealthCare Blog.
Ace's Quality HealthCare Blog.
Posted by: xbradtc at April 05, 2013 05:12 PM (O0L6N)
339
"You're being monitored so I would suggest you don't
jerk off on site. Plan ahead and take care of it before you go over.
You'll thank me later.
"
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 09:04 PM (LCRYB)
This post is, in microcosm, AOSHQ.
We went from commenting on an interesting criminal case, to a discussion of sleep apnea and its current diagnosis and treatment, to masturbation advice.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 09:04 PM (LCRYB)
This post is, in microcosm, AOSHQ.
We went from commenting on an interesting criminal case, to a discussion of sleep apnea and its current diagnosis and treatment, to masturbation advice.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 05:13 PM (0zDXv)
340
as sean says, one thing about the sleep study: Do not expect a good night's sleep that night.
This is partly offset by the fact that you'll have the first good sleep you've had in years, due to the cpap.
But still, it's only going to be like 3 hours of good sleep. You should probably take the next day off from work.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 05:13 PM (LCRYB)
341
326: it's been awhile since I looked at the case, but at least one of the kids mentioned someone stealing her Walkman (which hadn't been released to the public).
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 05:14 PM (H0Rot)
342
286
Posted by: Beagle at April 05, 2013 08:56 PM (sOtz/)
Here's another article I found a few years ago. I saved this one. Granted, it's the New York Times, but those chevrons sound pretty interesting.
This purported impact allegedly happened 4800 years ago, and may be the origin of the Noah's Flood story.
Yet another myth of primitive people, right?
http://tinyurl.com/cl5he7b
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2013 05:14 PM (sdi6R)
343
>>>t's been awhile since I looked at the case, but at least one of the kids mentioned someone stealing her Walkman (which hadn't been released to the public).
The probative value of that relies on assuming the cops didn't keep asking about the Walkman.
I am not anti-cop by any means, but let's not be silly about this.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 05:15 PM (LCRYB)
344
330 326: it's been awhile since I looked at the case, but at least one of the kids mentioned someone stealing her Walkman (which hadn't been released to the public).
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 09:14 PM (H0Rot)
A Walkman. Now I remember how long ago this happened....
Posted by: Joejm65 at April 05, 2013 05:16 PM (XaMqH)
345
Awesome, and now they're trying to extradite Knox BACK to Italy so she can go through this whole witchhunt (in the real sense) again.
Remind me why we have a State Department, if not to give the middle finger politely to idiots like this?
Posted by: Shawn G at April 05, 2013 05:16 PM (/lltO)
346
Sleep studies? Yes they do monitor you. You dying on their watch would harsh their mellow.
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 05, 2013 05:16 PM (UI2eN)
347
Thanks everyone. I'm gonna get this taken care of .
There's no doubt I have sleep apnea. My wife observes my stopped
breathing and says it's terrifying.
Posted by: Warden at April 05, 2013 09:09 PM (HzhBE)
Which means she's probably not getting enough sleep because she's listening to you breathe and freaking out, so you'll be doing her a favor too. My brother has a mask and said it's one of the best things he's ever done.
Posted by: I lurk, therefore I am at April 05, 2013 05:16 PM (PNJll)
348
My brother was stationed in Naples for two years and lived off-base with his family. He said the place was so corrupt you couldn't get anything done without a bribe (for example: setting up utilities at their apartment). When my parents went to visit them the city was in the middle of a months-long sanitation worker strike. The streets were overflowing with garbage and the whole city smelled like a dump. He was more than ready to leave when his assignment was over.
Posted by: not the mama at April 05, 2013 05:16 PM (5dxeo)
349
Remind me why we have a State Department, if not to give the middle finger politely to idiots like this?
Posted by: Shawn G at April 05, 2013 09:16 PM (/lltO)
How else are we going to give billions of dollars to the Muslim Brotherhood?
How else are we going to give billions of dollars to the Muslim Brotherhood?
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at April 05, 2013 05:16 PM (Gk3SS)
350
You'll thank me later.
----
The staff will thank you too, ace
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at April 05, 2013 05:16 PM (nhWB9)
351
>>>The staff will thank you too, ace
the staff applauded me and told me I was awesome at beating off.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 05:17 PM (LCRYB)
352
Yet another myth of primitive people, right?
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2013 09:14 PM (sdi6R)
We have this tiny little slice of the planet's history recorded in a way we think we can rely upon, and then we use that as a model to determine what can and can't happen in ways that seem perfectly reasonable to us but are, in fact, quite wacky.
And also, the scoffing. Because we know so much.
Being humble about possibilities doesn't mean you have to believe every rumor, it just means, not so much with the scoffing.
Also being able to say "I don't know" helps.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 05:18 PM (bxiXv)
353
The staff.applauded...
---well years of practice does usually bear results
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at April 05, 2013 05:19 PM (nhWB9)
354
337 I believe there is an ongoing garbage strike in one of the major cities right now.Socialist country Italy.
Posted by: steevy at April 05, 2013 05:20 PM (9XBK2)
355
340 >>>The staff will thank you too, ace
the staff applauded me and told me I was awesome at beating off.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 09:17 PM (LCRYB)
Heh. You said 'staff'....
Posted by: Joejm65 at April 05, 2013 05:20 PM (XaMqH)
356
Douglas Preston's Italian (and wrongly jailed) co-author of The Monster of Florence is Mario Spezi.
Preston's co-author of Relic and the rest of "Pendergast series" has been Lincoln Child.
Posted by: NCC at April 05, 2013 05:20 PM (svwAc)
357
306
You're being monitored so I would suggest you don't jerk off on
site. Plan ahead and take care of it before you go over. You'll thank
me later.
Do they let you bring a second pillow, to hide the Involuntary Nighttime Boner?
Do they let you bring a second pillow, to hide the Involuntary Nighttime Boner?
Posted by: Splunge at April 05, 2013 05:21 PM (bKA83)
358
Hit Napoli every year because we were the go-to 6th Fleet carrier. What a shithole. Guys would get hammered and jump off the liberty boats into Naples Bay, and then get like 50 shots for diseases. Saw ricciones and the whores in the Gut would take your kidney to feed their kids.
One upside: saw Pompeii
Posted by: USS Diversity at April 05, 2013 05:22 PM (c/58R)
359
I have always been very comfortable with bribery.
Somehow the DMV only takes me 5 minutes, my power is always the first to be restored, I don't wait a week for the cable guy, etc.
Posted by: Hopeless at April 05, 2013 05:22 PM (2CuCY)
360
I read one of the Preston/Child books(The Relic I think) and I hated it.
Posted by: steevy at April 05, 2013 05:22 PM (9XBK2)
361
Do they let you bring a second pillow, to hide the Involuntary Nighttime Boner?
----
Maybe you could ask to sleep on a couch IYKWIM.
Posted by: Y-not at April 05, 2013 05:22 PM (5H6zj)
362
335
Sleep studies? Yes they do monitor you. You dying on their watch would harsh their mellow.
How the hell do you go to sleep with someone watching you. I don't think I could do it. Paregoric?
How the hell do you go to sleep with someone watching you. I don't think I could do it. Paregoric?
Posted by: Splunge at April 05, 2013 05:23 PM (bKA83)
363
Didn't Moses have a staff? Or something....
Posted by: Low Information Biblical Scholar at April 05, 2013 05:23 PM (BVkEs)
364
Splunge, I read the average male has around 12 nightly erections.
Shit. No wonder I'm so tired in the morning.
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 05, 2013 05:23 PM (UI2eN)
366
Being humble about possibilities doesn't mean you have to believe every rumor, it just means, not so much with the scoffing.
Also being able to say "I don't know" helps. Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 05, 2013 09:18 PM (bxiXv)
The very idea that there could be rogue waves was considered utterly insane. Right up to the point that one nearly Poseidon Adventure'd that Semester at Sea ship.
Tsunami waves over 100 feet tall? You are nuts. Oh. Hey. Look at that 1,720 foot tall one in Alaska.
Massive volcanoes plunging Earth into never ending winter for years? Poppycock. What's that? Yellowstone Park is really just the mouth of a massive volcano? Huh.
We know jackshit about our planet.
Also being able to say "I don't know" helps. Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 05, 2013 09:18 PM (bxiXv)
The very idea that there could be rogue waves was considered utterly insane. Right up to the point that one nearly Poseidon Adventure'd that Semester at Sea ship.
Tsunami waves over 100 feet tall? You are nuts. Oh. Hey. Look at that 1,720 foot tall one in Alaska.
Massive volcanoes plunging Earth into never ending winter for years? Poppycock. What's that? Yellowstone Park is really just the mouth of a massive volcano? Huh.
We know jackshit about our planet.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at April 05, 2013 05:24 PM (Gk3SS)
367
353
Splunge, I read the average male has around 12 nightly erections.
Shit. No wonder I'm so tired in the morning.
Maybe it's not the apnea that's the health threat. Maybe it's all that blood loss.
Splunge, I read the average male has around 12 nightly erections.
Shit. No wonder I'm so tired in the morning.
Maybe it's not the apnea that's the health threat. Maybe it's all that blood loss.
Posted by: Splunge at April 05, 2013 05:24 PM (bKA83)
368
333: There was more than just the Walkman that suggested their guilt. My only point was it had been a cause célèbre for many of the usual suspects for years. They were all already out of jail, when a self serving, no consequence confession gave Morganthau an excuse to make a politically popular move. I'm not saying the police didn't trick and manipulate them, but that's what interrogations are and why you should never talk to the cops.
So hell they may be innocent, I just don't think that jailhouse confession actually proved a thing.
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 05:25 PM (H0Rot)
369
Remind me why we have a State Department, if not to give the middle finger politely to idiots like this?
You mean the Heroes of Benghazi, that State Department?
Posted by: t-bird at April 05, 2013 05:25 PM (oJQ+J)
371
Didn't a grand jury indict the Ramsey family? Oh yeah, prosecutor declined to prosecute.
The media here avoids reporting the truth as relentlessly as in Italy.
Posted by: Hopeless at April 05, 2013 05:27 PM (nzlU3)
372
We know jackshit about our planet.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at April 05, 2013 09:24 PM (Gk3SS)
Yup.
But, you know, crisis because of a slight variation in a trace gas demands massive political power grab. Because We Know, You Guys!
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 05:27 PM (bxiXv)
373
>>>So hell they may be innocent, I just don't think that jailhouse confession actually proved a thing.
to be honest with you, I know nothing about it, except the bullet-point THEY WERE INNOCENT the media sold me. If the media lied to me as usual, I wouldn't exactly be shocked about it.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 05:29 PM (LCRYB)
375
Damnit!
The Drudge headline just made me spew my diet Dr. Pepper.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 05:29 PM (piMMO)
376
I am the Queen of Boners.
Posted by: Sandra Flook
*******************
You are where boners go to die.
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 05, 2013 05:30 PM (UI2eN)
377
360
Didn't a grand jury indict the Ramsey family? Oh yeah, prosecutor declined to prosecute.
The media here avoids reporting the truth as relentlessly as in Italy.
The Ramsey case was pretty thoroughly reported. I still don't know what happened in the Ramsey house that night, and I wish I did. The only thing I'm pretty sure of is that no one calls themselves a "small foreign faction."
The media here avoids reporting the truth as relentlessly as in Italy.
The Ramsey case was pretty thoroughly reported. I still don't know what happened in the Ramsey house that night, and I wish I did. The only thing I'm pretty sure of is that no one calls themselves a "small foreign faction."
Posted by: Splunge at April 05, 2013 05:30 PM (bKA83)
378
Oh yeah, prosecutor declined to prosecute.
Posted by: Hopeless at April 05, 2013 09:27 PM (nzlU3)
David Gregory (laughs heartily).
Peter Gleick (slaps table, cries with laughter).
Kevin Johnson (doubles over, wheezes).
Jon Corzine (falls of chair, cries "help help help," continues laughing).
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 05:30 PM (bxiXv)
379
Watching Boondock Saints as we type...
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 05, 2013 05:31 PM (UI2eN)
380
Oh yeah, prosecutor declined to prosecute.
Posted by: Hopeless at April 05, 2013 09:27 PM (nzlU3)
David Gregory (laughs heartily).
Peter Gleick (slaps table, cries with laughter).
Kevin Johnson (doubles over, wheezes).
Jon Corzine (falls of chair, cries "help help help," continues laughing).
***
They can't all be Angela Coreys
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 05:31 PM (piMMO)
381
Sounds like Amanda was metaphorically raped.
Anti-American anger redirected at her and her sex.
What a nightmare.
Stay out of Italy. The men are notorious sexists, there, to begin with. And, this seemed to spiral out of control.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2013 05:31 PM (XYSwB)
382
358
Remind me why we have a State Department, if not to give the middle finger politely to idiots like this?
You mean the Heroes of Benghazi, that State Department?
You mean the Heroes of Benghazi, that State Department?
Posted by: t-bird at April 05, 2013 09:25 PM (oJQ+J)
I know you meant it in a different way, I'm going to step on the soapbox briefly and say that some of the Benghazi survivors are State Department Diplomatic Security agents who fought hard too and some of them were seriously injured. I'm not going to say how I know this, but I do. A lot of DS agents are former military.
Posted by: I lurk, therefore I am at April 05, 2013 05:32 PM (PNJll)
383
We have a conundrum.
We all know that defense attorneys will say things like "There is no way Mr. Westerfield could have possibly killed her" when he most certainly did. Defense attorneys do not adhere to a code of ethics that prevents them from saying such things or defending someone they know is guilty.
Public prosecutors, however, supposedly subscribe to a code of ethics that prohibits them from prosecuting someone that they know is innocent.
Which is why I have tuned-out everything a defense attorney says and give some credence to what a prosecutor says.
Until Nifong.
We all know that defense attorneys will say things like "There is no way Mr. Westerfield could have possibly killed her" when he most certainly did. Defense attorneys do not adhere to a code of ethics that prevents them from saying such things or defending someone they know is guilty.
Public prosecutors, however, supposedly subscribe to a code of ethics that prohibits them from prosecuting someone that they know is innocent.
Which is why I have tuned-out everything a defense attorney says and give some credence to what a prosecutor says.
Until Nifong.
Posted by: Al at April 05, 2013 05:32 PM (V70Uh)
386
Some of the Benghazi survivors were the peeps fighting, and some were CIA agents and others for who security is an issue.
So, the "we can't just open up this box" argument is not without merit.
It also doesn't justify the lies and the cover-up in toto.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 05:33 PM (bxiXv)
387
373
Which is why I have tuned-out everything a defense attorney says and give some credence to what a prosecutor says.
Until Nifong.
It's still a pretty good rule of thumb. And, notice, Nifong was disbarred for his sins. How often does that happen to defense attorneys?
Until Nifong.
It's still a pretty good rule of thumb. And, notice, Nifong was disbarred for his sins. How often does that happen to defense attorneys?
Posted by: Splunge at April 05, 2013 05:34 PM (bKA83)
388
"I only get one boner per night.
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 09:33 PM (I2LwF)"
You must be a young man.
Posted by: Al at April 05, 2013 05:34 PM (V70Uh)
390
Volare!
oh oh
Cantate
oh oh oh oh!
That was a EuroVision song. Probably the only decent song (besides My Little Pony) that has ever won.
Posted by: Waldo at April 05, 2013 05:35 PM (xY6Ip)
391
OT
Obama budget targets retirement accounts...
drudge
The senior administration official said that wealthy taxpayers can currently “accumulate many millions of dollars in these accounts, substantially more than is needed to fund reasonable levels of retirement saving.”
Under the plan, a taxpayer’s tax-preferred retirement account, like an IRA, could not finance more than $205,000 per year of retirement – or right around $3 million this year.thehill
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2013 05:35 PM (XYSwB)
392
Nancy Grace, on topic of Durham, better hope she lives forever. Because the big thorny dong is awaiting her in the afterlife
Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at April 05, 2013 05:36 PM (QTHTd)
393
375
Top guesses on gay NFL players:
Urlacher
Kaepernick
Any Dolphin
Any kicker
Top guesses on gay NFL players:
Urlacher
Kaepernick
Any Dolphin
Any kicker
Posted by: USS Diversity at April 05, 2013 09:33 PM (c/58R)
I agree on the kickers, but I'll throw in a wildcard of at least one linebacker/O or D lineman.
Posted by: I lurk, therefore I am at April 05, 2013 05:36 PM (PNJll)
394
Yeah, the Central Park case is tricky as any "false confession" case is. I think the truth is probably somewhere in between. It's been awhile since I looked at it, but unlike Knox or the WM3 I don't recall the police actually crossing any major lines.
Also, anything the pogrom-inciting "Reverend" Al is involved in immediately raises a red flag for me.
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 05:37 PM (H0Rot)
395
“accumulate many millions of dollars in these accounts, substantially more than is needed to fund reasonable levels of retirement saving.”
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2013 09:35 PM (XYSwB)
Open fucking communism. Right there.
To each according to what we think they should be left, from each whatever we fucking want.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 05:37 PM (bxiXv)
396
Whoops! It's My Lovely Horse by Father Ted: http://goo.gl/Nw3U
Posted by: Waldo at April 05, 2013 05:38 PM (xY6Ip)
397
376
Some of the Benghazi survivors were the peeps fighting, and some were CIA agents and others for who security is an issue.
So, the "we can't just open up this box" argument is not without merit.
It also doesn't justify the lies and the cover-up in toto. Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 05, 2013 09:33
============
I would advise those people to maintain a very low profile. Just saying...
So, the "we can't just open up this box" argument is not without merit.
It also doesn't justify the lies and the cover-up in toto. Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 05, 2013 09:33
============
I would advise those people to maintain a very low profile. Just saying...
Posted by: Vince Foster at April 05, 2013 05:38 PM (aDwsi)
398
Stay out of Italy. The men are notorious sexists, there, to begin with. And, this seemed to spiral out of control.
Oh great. My wife is thinking of visiting there with her friends.
I want her to watch 'Taken' before she goes.
Oh great. My wife is thinking of visiting there with her friends.
I want her to watch 'Taken' before she goes.
Posted by: EC at April 05, 2013 05:38 PM (doBIb)
399
Top guesses on gay NFL players:
Urlacher
Kaepernick
Any Dolphin
Any kicker
Posted by: USS Diversity at April 05, 2013 09:33 PM (c/58R)
I agree on the kickers, but I'll throw in a wildcard of at least one linebacker/O or D lineman.
***
Chad "Ochocinco" is out of that race.
The dude s a freaking ANIMAL on twitter.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 05:38 PM (piMMO)
400
Two rumors about Urlacher:
1). He likes women.
2). He likes women who can take a punch.
Not kidding here...
Posted by: Joejm65 at April 05, 2013 05:38 PM (UZuc4)
401
I only get one boner per night.
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 09:33 PM (I2LwF)
Are you male? Have you reached puberty?
If the answer to both questions is: yes, then you have several each night.
Oh, wait...you're a Masshole!
Dickless wonders...the lot of you.
Fucking Red Sox.
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 09:33 PM (I2LwF)
Are you male? Have you reached puberty?
If the answer to both questions is: yes, then you have several each night.
Oh, wait...you're a Masshole!
Dickless wonders...the lot of you.
Fucking Red Sox.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 05:38 PM (0zDXv)
402
artisanal 'ette , I had a good friend who was born of Italian immigrants. He told me about how married men would be out to dinner with their wives at a restaurant, only to LOUDLY comment on the bodily features of an attractive woman who had just entered the restaurant. The other men would soon follow with their own comments.
Mind blowing.
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 05, 2013 05:38 PM (UI2eN)
403
Open fucking communism. Right there.
To each according to what we think they should be left, from each whatever we fucking want.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 05, 2013 09:37 PM (bxiXv)
yep, same with the gun stuff
baby steps just to get the door open and written into law
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2013 05:39 PM (XYSwB)
404
I cannot describe to you how eye-bleedingly boring it is to pick out Republican donors from a long list and then transcribe their information into a separate spreadsheet.
My soul is being drained like you would not believe. Especially in cases where I don't know whether a particular recipient is a republican or not and i have to go look it up.
The eyes, as I said, begin bleeding.
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 05:40 PM (I2LwF)
405
yeah Urlacher? not gay. More like Johnny Appleseed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Urlacher#Personal_life
Posted by: Jones in CO at April 05, 2013 05:40 PM (8sCoq)
406
373: Despite the hype Defense Attorney's follow the same ethics rules as any other attorney. They can still be disbarred for knowingly lying to the court, aka duty of candor to the tribunal
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 05:41 PM (H0Rot)
407
I haven't been summoned to Jury Duty in years. But if I do, and I want to be excused, I will use that argument. I will ask if the Prosecutor has a code of ethics preventing him/her from knowingly prosecuting an innocent person. I will ask if the defense attorney has a code of ethics preventing him/her from defending a guilty person.
The Judge won't be able to get rid of me fast enough.
The Judge won't be able to get rid of me fast enough.
Posted by: Al at April 05, 2013 05:41 PM (V70Uh)
408
No Charlie. I get one boner per night. It lasts from when I lie down until when I get up.
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 05:41 PM (I2LwF)
409
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 09:38 PM (0zDXv)
Meanwhile, will the Yankees win anytime soon?
Meanwhile, will the Yankees win anytime soon?
Posted by: I lurk, therefore I am, a female who cannot understand the appeal of Derek Jeter at April 05, 2013 05:41 PM (PNJll)
412
And while I am a Red Sox fan, I spend zero dollars and zero hours on them per year. Except if I take my kids to a game or its on TV where I am.
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 05:42 PM (I2LwF)
413
See, Amanda had written, in Italian, to him: See you later. But apparently that isn't an idiom in Italian as it is English. They were certain that this referred to a specific plan to see him later that night, and kept demanding she rat out her accomplice. ****
Are you suggesting a student of the Italian language had never heard the phrase Arrivederci--which means "till we see each other"?
Posted by: Kerry at April 05, 2013 05:42 PM (AYfPj)
414
Posted by: I lurk, therefore I am, a female who cannot understand the appeal of Derek Jeter at April 05, 2013 09:41 PM (PNJll)
Probably 75 times this year alone!
Probably 75 times this year alone!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 05:42 PM (0zDXv)
415
>>>The Ramsey case was pretty thoroughly reported. I still don't know what happened in the Ramsey house that night, and I wish I did. The only thing I'm pretty sure of is that no one calls themselves a "small foreign faction."
That's the Penthouse Forum of foreign terrorist self-identifications.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 05:42 PM (LCRYB)
416
The eyes, as I said, begin bleeding.
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 09:40 PM (I2LwF)
Here. Look at this instead.
http://bit.ly/WiJ3wK
Here. Look at this instead.
http://bit.ly/WiJ3wK
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at April 05, 2013 05:43 PM (Gk3SS)
417
Up until 2004 they were an obsession. But then they got he monkey off their backs, and I'm cool with it. Then it was just something to pass the time from the all star real until football.
Now I don't really care about the NFL anymore so... I don't think the Red Sox are all that important anymore.
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 05:43 PM (I2LwF)
418
Probably 75 times this year alone!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 09:42 PM (0zDXv)
Once they get started...
Posted by: I lurk, therefore I am, a female who cannot understand the appeal of Derek Jeter at April 05, 2013 05:43 PM (PNJll)
419
394
I cannot describe to you how eye-bleedingly boring it is to pick out
Republican donors from a long list and then transcribe their information
into a separate spreadsheet.
My soul is being drained like you would not believe. Especially in cases where I don't know whether a particular recipient is a republican or not and i have to go look it up.
The eyes, as I said, begin bleeding. Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 09:40 PM
=====================
Hang tough. It is the only way to get things done..., but you know that.
My soul is being drained like you would not believe. Especially in cases where I don't know whether a particular recipient is a republican or not and i have to go look it up.
The eyes, as I said, begin bleeding. Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 09:40 PM
=====================
Hang tough. It is the only way to get things done..., but you know that.
Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 05, 2013 05:44 PM (aDwsi)
421
As soon as the money comes I'll hire some folks to do the data. Actually, if I had money, I would just buy the lists.
But this is sweat equity time motherfuckers
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 05:44 PM (I2LwF)
422
396
373: Despite the hype Defense Attorney's follow the same ethics rules as
any other attorney. They can still be disbarred for knowingly lying to
the court, aka duty of candor to the tribunal
No doubt. But the defense attorney's notion of ethics does not match how other people think of ethics. For example: Johnny Cochran ludicrously dragging in the "Columbian Necktie" red herring in the O.J. case. Unethical to normal people? Yes. Unethical by the defense attorney's unique conception of ethics? Notin the slightest.
No doubt. But the defense attorney's notion of ethics does not match how other people think of ethics. For example: Johnny Cochran ludicrously dragging in the "Columbian Necktie" red herring in the O.J. case. Unethical to normal people? Yes. Unethical by the defense attorney's unique conception of ethics? Notin the slightest.
Posted by: Splunge at April 05, 2013 05:45 PM (bKA83)
423
Stay out of Italy. The men are notorious sexists, there, to begin with. And, this seemed to spiral out of control.
Oh great. My wife is thinking of visiting there with her friends.
I want her to watch 'Taken' before she goes.
Posted by: EC at April 05, 2013 09:38 PM (doBIb)
She just needs to practice discretion and caution, and be with people when she goes out. Dress like them.
There is so much art and history there, it's overwhelming, really.
Worth it.
And, a trip to Italy's Riviera is way cheaper than the French one.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2013 05:45 PM (XYSwB)
424
Please let one of the gays be Tony Romo!
Serious guess tho, Troy Polomalu and 3 nobodys
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 05:45 PM (H0Rot)
425
I got dinged for begging here. I have been doing e-blasts. And I have two fundraisers planned.
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 05:46 PM (I2LwF)
426
>I haven't been summoned to Jury Duty in years. But if I do, and I want to be excused, I will use that argument.
Just ask the judge if you can vote to 'give 'em the chair'. Tell him you always wanted to give somebody the chair.
Posted by: Jones in CO at April 05, 2013 05:46 PM (8sCoq)
428
Truman how does that help with the 3rd party rise -up?
Posted by: USS Diversity at April 05, 2013 05:46 PM (c/58R)
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ eating cookies at April 05, 2013 05:47 PM (hO8IJ)
430
I have watched hidden camera footage of a defense attorney pinching and poking a "defendant" with a safety pin to get her to cry so the jury would feel sorry for her.
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 05, 2013 05:47 PM (UI2eN)
431
412: In my opinion the OJ attorneys came very very close to the line. I think they were playing for nullification, which if I made the call, would be a violation of ethics.
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 05:48 PM (H0Rot)
432
Please let one of the gays be Tony Romo!
If he's gay--and his wife and kid might argue that--and can throw for 5 zillion yards and 20 TDs per season, I'm OK with that.
Posted by: USS Diversity at April 05, 2013 05:48 PM (c/58R)
433
Stay out of Italy. The men are notorious sexists, there, to begin with.
Südtirol was awesome. But they're pretty emphatic about being separate from Italians.
Südtirol was awesome. But they're pretty emphatic about being separate from Italians.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ eating cookies at April 05, 2013 05:49 PM (hO8IJ)
434
Hi guys, sorry Ot. Made a video of my dogs from my iPhone, and it does not give me the Facebook option when I tried to share it? I was able to a couple weeks ago? Tried to look it up on google, no help there!
Posted by: lou's a girl at April 05, 2013 05:49 PM (vgd4f)
435
412
396
-----Unethical to normal people? Yes. Unethical by the defense attorney's unique conception of ethics? Notin the slightest.
Posted by: Splunge at April 05, 2013 09:45 PM
==========
True. There ARE no ethics on the part of defense lawyers..., unless of course there is no money/fame in the case for them, in which they just don't give a shit..., pretty much the same thing. At any rate, justice is not a player in their game.
-----Unethical to normal people? Yes. Unethical by the defense attorney's unique conception of ethics? Notin the slightest.
Posted by: Splunge at April 05, 2013 09:45 PM
==========
True. There ARE no ethics on the part of defense lawyers..., unless of course there is no money/fame in the case for them, in which they just don't give a shit..., pretty much the same thing. At any rate, justice is not a player in their game.
Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 05, 2013 05:50 PM (aDwsi)
436
Have they synchronized it like the NFL players?
That's what the gay NFL players need to do - a synchronised dance on the end-zone
That's what the gay NFL players need to do - a synchronised dance on the end-zone
Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at April 05, 2013 05:50 PM (QTHTd)
437
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 09:43 PM (I2LwF)
We have friends who are long-time Red Sox fans. But we use the rivalry mostly as an excuse to get together and eat and drink.
It's sports. Fun, but ultimately not too important.
If we ever meet I will tell you a story about the nurses at The Lahey Clinic when they found out I was a Yankees fan.
We have friends who are long-time Red Sox fans. But we use the rivalry mostly as an excuse to get together and eat and drink.
It's sports. Fun, but ultimately not too important.
If we ever meet I will tell you a story about the nurses at The Lahey Clinic when they found out I was a Yankees fan.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 05:50 PM (0zDXv)
438
401 Truman North:
Hire data entry people.
Posted by: Al at April 05, 2013 09:41 PM (V70Uh)
Also look into Amazom Mechanical Turk for tasks like this.
Hire data entry people.
Posted by: Al at April 05, 2013 09:41 PM (V70Uh)
Also look into Amazom Mechanical Turk for tasks like this.
Posted by: Mætenloch at April 05, 2013 05:51 PM (pAlYe)
439
Kevin Youkilis?
Ummmm, Youk just married Tom Brady's sister.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 05:51 PM (TxbzW)
440
>>>Are you suggesting a student of the Italian language had never heard the phrase Arrivederci--which means "till we see each other"?
I don't know how much of a student she was. I think she might have been learning on this trip.
As someone currently learning a foreign language I can tell you I translate things directly (non-idiomatically) all the time. All the idioms are the last things you learn. Early stuff is the basics. You do learn stuff like the basic idioms for "until later" but only a few.
What you're proposing makes no sense.
Here's the timeline:
Amanda was actually supposed to be working the night of the murders. This is a little problematic for the prosecution, given that she was supposed to be working during her Satanic Sex Murders.
But anyway, shortly before her shift, her boss texted her to say "Don't come in, I have it covered." She did not ask for the night off. This was at his initiative.
So at this point, apparently, she figured, well, I have the night off; might as well contact a lowlevel drug dealer and thief to rape and murder my roommate.
That said, she then texts the boss, "Okay, see you later (in non-idiomatic Italian)."
The Italians think this means "I'll see you tonight for our MURDER PLANS," which also makes no sense, as he, of course, is 100% innocent and has an airtight alibi. But they continue insisting that "See you later" must mean "see you at the time we have agreed to commit rape/murder on your roommate/best friend in Italy with whom none of us have any problems at all."
So, sure, you can agree with the Italian police that three words saying "see you later" are the clue to cracking the case, or you can take the obvious simple interpretation that she said "See you later" meaning the English see you later, meaning see you soon.
Incidentally, as a technical matter, she was planning to see her boss "later" -- when she had her next shift at work.
The whole "case" against her is built on ridiculous crap just like this. "See you later" = GUILTY OF MURDER!
And none of it makes sense. The boss, again, was completely cleared, early, as he was in the company of many people who could vouch for his whereabouts.
And yet this initial suspicion persists, despite being so thoroughly disproven, seeking out new evidence to support it.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 05:51 PM (LCRYB)
441
Some goof from the UK was trying to tell me that the US banned the airing of a documentary made in the UK on the Ramsey case. He couldn't understand that the gov. can't ban anything over here b/c of our constitution and that the market had been saturated with documentaries on the Ramseys.
Posted by: Waldo at April 05, 2013 05:51 PM (xY6Ip)
442
She just needs to practice discretion and caution, and be with people when she goes out. Dress like them.
Oh, I'm going to drill that into her brain before. There's going to be four of them going, so I think that's good.
But I will have to say that I don't have any money, I have no special set of skills, and I'm not going to find her (if she gets taken).
Oh, I'm going to drill that into her brain before. There's going to be four of them going, so I think that's good.
But I will have to say that I don't have any money, I have no special set of skills, and I'm not going to find her (if she gets taken).
Posted by: EC at April 05, 2013 05:51 PM (doBIb)
443
USS Diversity: actually, what were doing here is starting the takeover of the MA GOP. Getting rid of he idiots who lose us races by throwing DIABLOs out. Or, worse, not running anyone at all. Or, worse, knifing non-approved candidates in the face.
Those guys. Out. Give them the axe.
Better than a third party. Take all the people who have become disgusted with the GOP and lead a coup.
And once we have the state committee, turn mass red. Or purple at least.
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 05:52 PM (I2LwF)
444
425: Hate to break it ya but justice ain't on the menu for DAs either. It's all about numbers, conviction rates. That's the genius of the system, two self interested adversaries vigorously against each other tends to produce justice in the aggregate.
Compare that with the "inquisitorial" system used in Europe, I'll take competing self interests every time
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 05:52 PM (H0Rot)
445
417 Kevin Youkilis?
Oh, and he's a Yankee now so its entirely possible he's gone full homo.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 05:52 PM (TxbzW)
446
I don't care about Teh Ghey Footballers so much. I am curious about how many of them like Goats.
Posted by: Achmed the Tahini Salesman at April 05, 2013 05:52 PM (jucos)
447
PETA: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. They should change their name. It is a lie. They should be "People for the prohibition of meat consumption by humans."
I have a code of ethics. I eat some animals. They are yummy.
The tiny booklet of Defense Attorney Ethics is blank.
I have a code of ethics. I eat some animals. They are yummy.
The tiny booklet of Defense Attorney Ethics is blank.
Posted by: Al at April 05, 2013 05:53 PM (V70Uh)
449
And yet this initial suspicion persists, despite being so thoroughly disproven, seeking out new evidence to support it.
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 09:51 PM (LCRYB)
You cover American national politics all day long.
And you act *almost* surprised that people can be this irrational, and that they band together in groups to be this irrational.
I mean, I didn't know there was news about any other kind of behavior. 
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2013 05:54 PM (bxiXv)
450
Two rumors about Urlacher:
1). He likes women.
2). He likes women who can take a punch.
Not kidding here...
1). He likes women.
2). He likes women who can take a punch.
Not kidding here...
Posted by: Joejm65 at April 05, 2013 09:38 PM (UZuc4)
Isn't a rumor. Urlacher is dumb poonhound, see Paris Hilton-Jenny McCarthy.
He hits women? Where did you see this?
Posted by: cm9000 at April 05, 2013 05:54 PM (vfB2N)
451
Kevin Youkilis always gave me that "San Francisco faggot" vibe. Ever see him shake his tush at the plate?
Posted by: Al at April 05, 2013 05:55 PM (V70Uh)
452
Meanwhile, will the Yankees win anytime soon?
Hey, they beat the BoSox last night.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 05:55 PM (TxbzW)
454
PETA: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. They should change their name. It is a lie. They should be "People for the prohibition of meat consumption by humans."
I have a code of ethics. I eat some animals. They are yummy.
The tiny booklet of Defense Attorney Ethics is blank.
***
PETA is full of shit. It's not about how animals are treated, if it was, they could simply push for people to eat Kosher.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 05:55 PM (piMMO)
455
I went on a trip to England when it was 3-0 for the Yankees in the 2004 ALCS. The London hostel I stayed at had a Red Sox fan there, and in every morning's internet check we saw them come back. The morning after game 7 (which was really a few hours after the game ended) I celebrated with her. Later in the day at the Portsmouth Dockyard (home to the HMS Warrior, HMS Victory, and some of the then-current members of the Royal Navy, including the Ark Royal), I had two guys from New Jersey ask me if I knew what the score was. I asked them, "How badly do you want to know?" I then had to console them.
Posted by: I lurk, therefore I am at April 05, 2013 05:55 PM (PNJll)
456
And once we have the state committee, turn mass red. Or purple at least.
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 09:52 PM (I2LwF)
---------------------------------
I can dig it.
Posted by: USS Diversity at April 05, 2013 05:56 PM (c/58R)
457
"Civilization, the West and the Rest" - Niall Ferguson
Outstanding read, non-fiction. A very scholarly work. I read it on the flight to Barbados.
Outstanding read, non-fiction. A very scholarly work. I read it on the flight to Barbados.
Posted by: navybrat at April 05, 2013 05:56 PM (GhuoU)
458
Gay? We already know about Joe Buck. But what about Troy Aikman? (NOOOOOOOO!, you must be thinking)
I once saw Joe give Troy the sweetest bedroom eyes. On TV!
I once saw Joe give Troy the sweetest bedroom eyes. On TV!
Posted by: Al at April 05, 2013 05:57 PM (V70Uh)
459
It wasn't just the italians that bought into that shit but other euros and whackjobs here.
The other euros because they hate the US and whackjobs here because they are whackjobs.
Posted by: Waldo at April 05, 2013 05:57 PM (xY6Ip)
460
Please let one of the gays be Tony Romo!
If you're Tony Romo, you're hoping it's not your center.
Posted by: t-bird at April 05, 2013 05:57 PM (oJQ+J)
461
>>>Ummmm, Youk just married Tom Brady's sister.
Tom Brady is married to a skinny man with fake boobs.
Posted by: wooga at April 05, 2013 05:57 PM (mi68K)
462
Dallas just signed Romo long term for big money.Based purely on stats justified.Based on results,especially playoff results??
Posted by: steevy at April 05, 2013 05:58 PM (9XBK2)
463
The Orioles played a fantastic game today. Great come from behind victory. The Nats and the Orioles are going to be exciting to watch this year.
Posted by: Truck Monkey at April 05, 2013 05:58 PM (jucos)
464
Tom Brady is married to a skinny man with fake boobs.
***
While I don't find her attractive, she's Brazilian and the boobs are real.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 05, 2013 05:58 PM (piMMO)
465
Libel laws are very strong over there, that's why Kitty Kelley among others,can't get published over there, another example was the case against Nicholas Tolstoi, which made itself into a subplot in 'Goldeneye'
Posted by: luigi vercotti at April 05, 2013 05:58 PM (Jsiw/)
466
421
In my opinion the OJ attorneys came very very close to the line. I think they were playing for nullification
Of course they were. I think that is probably what they got.
I don't know how else to interpret the questions about "Nora Victor Nora," which was in no way part of the evidence in the case.
Of course they were. I think that is probably what they got.
I don't know how else to interpret the questions about "Nora Victor Nora," which was in no way part of the evidence in the case.
Posted by: Splunge at April 05, 2013 05:59 PM (bKA83)
467
437: It always baffles me that so many conservatives are so pro-prosecution. Keep in mind, Eric Holder is the nations chief prosecutor. Nifong brought to attention what lawyers always knew, prosecutors are just as big of dicks as all other attorneys. I'm not saying defense attys always do a great job maintaining ethical standards, I'm saying both sides live up their ethics equally as shittily.
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 05:59 PM (H0Rot)
468
442
Meanwhile, will the Yankees win anytime soon?
Hey, they beat the BoSox last night.
They lost today. Work with me here.
Hey, they beat the BoSox last night.
They lost today. Work with me here.
Posted by: I lurk, therefore I am at April 05, 2013 05:59 PM (PNJll)
469
Just for discussion, let's say that gayness is genetic.
How do you think that it still exists?
Simple. Gay guys get married and have children.
How do you think that it still exists?
Simple. Gay guys get married and have children.
Posted by: Al at April 05, 2013 05:59 PM (V70Uh)
470
Tom Brady Mr. Bundschen is married to a skinny man with fake boobs.
FIFY.
And I say that as a die-hard Pats fan.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 06:00 PM (TxbzW)
471
>>>another example was the case against Nicholas Tolstoi, which made itself into a subplot in 'Goldeneye'
??? Which subplot do you mean?
Posted by: ace at April 05, 2013 06:01 PM (LCRYB)
472
Isn't a rumor. Urlacher is dumb poonhound, see Paris Hilton-Jenny McCarthy.
He hits women? Where did you see this?
Posted by: cm9000 at April 05, 2013 09:54 PM
Didn't see it. He spends time in SW Florida where I live and word gets around. I wish I could post an article, but this is the best I have. A few people who don't know each other told me the same thing. It's happened a few times with a few women. I heard it and thought 'roid rage' because that's what it sounded like. Anyway, rumor. And not ghey.
Posted by: Joejm65 at April 05, 2013 06:01 PM (UZuc4)
473
Gayness is like a minor birth defect i think. Like, the whole purpose of us is to perpetuate our DNA. If you don't wanna do that, well... It's not major. It's just a birth defect
Posted by: Truman North at April 05, 2013 06:01 PM (I2LwF)
475
452: As the onion pointed out, Romo is a Multiple Super-Bowl-Viewing QB. Gotta be worth something
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 06:01 PM (H0Rot)
476
Gay guys get married and have children.
Or they have children without getting married.
Their siblings also have children.
Or they have children without getting married.
Their siblings also have children.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ eating cookies at April 05, 2013 06:02 PM (hO8IJ)
477
@459 yer joking, right?
Didn't you grow up on a farm? Strike that, b/c almost no one does.
Didn't they teach biology where you went to school?
...or, are you kidding?
Posted by: Thorvald at April 05, 2013 06:02 PM (1V6Pv)
480
"...die-hard Pats fan."
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 10:00 PM (TxbzW)
This explains a lot.
Like the paste eating, the public masturbation, the inability to comprehend multi-syllabic words.....
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 10:00 PM (TxbzW)
This explains a lot.
Like the paste eating, the public masturbation, the inability to comprehend multi-syllabic words.....
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 05, 2013 06:03 PM (0zDXv)
481
They lost today. Work with me here.
:::: in my best Southie accent :::::
Yankees suuuuuuuuuccccckkkkk!!!
(better?)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 06:03 PM (TxbzW)
482
PETA uses animals in order to grant themselves money and political power so they can undermine America.
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 05, 2013 06:03 PM (UI2eN)
483
Just for discussion, let's say that gayness is genetic.
How do you think that it still exists?
Simple. Gay guys get married and have children.
Posted by: Al at April 05, 2013 09:59 PM (V70Uh)
Apparently, there is evidence to suggest that being gay or not is determined by the hormone levels you are exposed to in the womb.
Posted by: elizabethe at April 05, 2013 06:03 PM (qPCAa)
484
471
They lost today. Work with me here.
:::: in my best Southie accent :::::
Yankees suuuuuuuuuccccckkkkk!!!
(better?)
:::: in my best Southie accent :::::
Yankees suuuuuuuuuccccckkkkk!!!
(better?)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 10:03 PM (TxbzW)
Yep, heard it from the other side of Telegraph.
Posted by: I lurk, therefore I am at April 05, 2013 06:04 PM (PNJll)
485
, the inability to comprehend multi-syllabic words....
Ahem.
That's "polysyllabic" there, Mr. Berkeley.
.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 05, 2013 06:04 PM (TxbzW)
486
OK. I was showing my hetero-normative bias. I am so old, also, that my society got married if a child was on the way. Modern culture is more like Africa than Europe of history.
Posted by: Al at April 05, 2013 06:06 PM (V70Uh)
488
EC -- is your wife a blondie? If she is, she is a marked target. Italian men are pigs. Groping American women is a tradition over there. As long as she never goes out alone and puts her bitch face on in public, she'll be left alone.
Posted by: L, elle at April 05, 2013 06:06 PM (0PiQ4)
489
Wait, is the observation that no high profile defense attorneys have been disbarred mean they are more or less ethical?
It's the same disciplinary board that deals with ethics, the same judges reading the same ethics rules passed by the same people. There isn't a separate standard and there's no reason for the board to be biased in either direction. Yes defense attys have money, but prosecutors (ie the government) have power. Both can "influence" people if they so choose.
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 06:06 PM (H0Rot)
490
Didn't see it. He spends time in SW Florida where I
live and word gets around. I wish I could post an article, but this is
the best I have. A few people who don't know each other told me the same
thing. It's happened a few times with a few women. I heard it and
thought 'roid rage' because that's what it sounded like. Anyway, rumor.
And not ghey.
Posted by: Joejm65 at April 05, 2013 10:01 PM (UZuc4)
I get it, like I said Urlacher is a classic dumb jock chasing tail. Just never heard he hits women. There has never been anything about that in the Chicago sports media.
Posted by: cm9000 at April 05, 2013 06:08 PM (vfB2N)
491
I have to tell you I'm reading the media treatment here and I'm having a hard look at myself as far as sensationalizing and stuff. I'm sort of having a crisis of confidence, now that I see OTHER people using this sort of technique to such odious ends.
I wonder if you had any examples in mind. (Not asking you to tell us.)
I can't think of any offhand.
This is the kind of crap that Breitbart was being accused of, and it was total bs. But, on the flip side, we see major liberal outlets editing tapes, and misinforming by going with taglines that sell and divide. Leaving out the truth.
This is rampant in our media. And, people have been destroyed.
Our country is sick. It needs help. I just don't know what the answer is.
*night
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2013 06:08 PM (XYSwB)
492
I am so old, also, that my society got married if a child was on the way.
Me too. Well, the people who made the child got married. The rest of us just Ahem'd.
It's like I grew up in an alien civilization.
Me too. Well, the people who made the child got married. The rest of us just Ahem'd.
It's like I grew up in an alien civilization.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ eating cookies at April 05, 2013 06:09 PM (hO8IJ)
493
Now that Urlacher's career is over, you may hear about the woman abuse.
Remember, this is Illinois we are talking about.
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 05, 2013 06:10 PM (UI2eN)
494
Italian men are pigs. Groping American women is a tradition over there. As long as she never goes out alone and puts her bitch face on in public, she'll be left alone.
Posted by: L, elle at April 05, 2013 10:06 PM (0PiQ4)
I have a blond friend who did research in Mexico and she was groped often by men in public, and, like, in very very personal places.
Posted by: elizabethe at April 05, 2013 06:12 PM (qPCAa)
496
That's "polysyllabic" there, Mr. Berkeley.
Ahem. AoSHQ Style Guide suggests Mega-Syllabic.
Posted by: Sticky Wicket at April 05, 2013 06:14 PM (eyJh9)
497
So here we are again at ANOTHER juncture of Social tenure and I must say that I am SO EEFFIN TIRED OF THE G H E Y!!!!!
Pounded non stop on the military issue....gee, ya got that one.
Now the NFL...."Locker Room Drama" to ensue I'm sure....
I am tired of being "Fisted" by the Castro Street Cabal...yet with the waning?
of A.I.D.S......(right?) These folks are ready to saddle up to the table of humanity in spite of the obvious disorder of their "LIFESTYLE OF CHOICE!"
And here comes the ultimate goal.......
MARRY US IN A CHURCH OR WE WILL SUE YOU FUCKERS OUTTA BEING!!!!!!
Posted by: Richard at April 05, 2013 06:15 PM (wcfuB)
499
While stationed in Italy I learned quickly to stash cartons of Marlboro's and Jack Daniels in the trunk of my car. I was constantly being pulled over because of my blonde hair and the cigs and booze in the trunk was to give to the cops to leave me alone. This was in the WAY south of Italy were a blonde was rare.
At another time, one of our CO's got drunk and hit an Italian child while driving. Thank God she didn't die but was pretty hurt. He had to be immediately flown out of the country lest the locals get ahold of him. They would have killed him while the cops looked the other way. He was courts martialed back in the states and did time.
At another time, one of our CO's got drunk and hit an Italian child while driving. Thank God she didn't die but was pretty hurt. He had to be immediately flown out of the country lest the locals get ahold of him. They would have killed him while the cops looked the other way. He was courts martialed back in the states and did time.
Posted by: Cheri at April 05, 2013 06:24 PM (EAgmr)
500
In Mexico these days groping seems like the least of your worries. My blonde wife has never been groped in Cozumel, but that is not typical Mexico. Have not been to regular Mexico since 1993. Sounds scary now, even compared to the epidemic drug violence of that era.
Posted by: Beagle at April 05, 2013 06:26 PM (sOtz/)
501
want her to watch 'Taken' before she goes.
Posted by: EC at April 05, 2013 09:38 PM (doBIb)
The key for your wife is to NEVER walk anywhere alone. Not for a cappucino in broad daylight - no where. A woman walking alone at least in southern Italy is an open invitation for Italian men to harass her or worse.
Other than that, Italy was beautiful.
Posted by: EC at April 05, 2013 09:38 PM (doBIb)
The key for your wife is to NEVER walk anywhere alone. Not for a cappucino in broad daylight - no where. A woman walking alone at least in southern Italy is an open invitation for Italian men to harass her or worse.
Other than that, Italy was beautiful.
Posted by: Cheri at April 05, 2013 06:34 PM (EAgmr)
502
No offense, but Ace doesn't seem to know anything about this case.
Read Amanda Knox's written declaration, and then tell me she's not involved. If you believe the cops beat her in to making that statment, as she claimed, you will believe anything.
The prosecuter never said this was about Satanic rituals or witchcraft. If Ace is getting that wrong, he's clearly getting all his information from the pro-Knox websites like Injustice in Perugia.
True Justice is the best website for Knox information.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 06:35 PM (7zSvv)
504
Both Knox and the druggie boyfriend knew the black guy. the appelate court judge basically said there was no way two white people, who they refer to as "good fellows", would associate with a black guy and commit a murder with him, which is the most racist and absurd opinion ever in a legal case.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 06:39 PM (7zSvv)
505
The prosecuter's theory was it was some kind of sex game that got of hand b/c drugs were involved. Both Knox and her boyfriend were drug fiends. THe boyfriend had a knife fetish. Knox had a lot of strange men over at the apartment, which bothered Meridith, and Meridith was going to get Knox's job at the bar. According to the bar owner falsely accused by Knox, Knox had a queen bee syndrome and was clearly jealous when he told her that he was going to hire Meridith. The two girls were not getting along, according to her two Italian flatmates as well as all of Meridith's friens. They all think she is guilty of this crime so to pretend like Knox was some innocent girl over there is absurd.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 06:43 PM (7zSvv)
506
was no way two white people, who they refer to as "good fellows", would
associate with a black guy and commit a murder with him, which is the
most racist and absurd opinion ever in a legal case.
Yay, the "poison the well" strategy. If you think there's something fishy about this profile then RAAAAACIST!
Go troll elsewhere.
Yay, the "poison the well" strategy. If you think there's something fishy about this profile then RAAAAACIST!
Go troll elsewhere.
Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at April 05, 2013 06:51 PM (QTHTd)
507
Ya know, that's great that you know so much about some murder in Italy.
Now have you heard about Fast and Furious?
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 10:43 PM (7zSvv)
Ya know, that's great that you know so much about some murder in Italy.
Now have you heard about Fast and Furious?
Posted by: chemjeff at April 05, 2013 06:52 PM (BBWjt)
508
Obviously, glass from a real break in would fall inside the apartment. That just wasnÂ’t the claim by the prosecution. The claim was that the glass was on the inside of the apartment, AND IT WAS ON ARTICLES OF CLOTHING PRESUMABLY TOSSED BY THE SUPPOSED THIEF. So now I ask you: how does glass from the break in get ON TOP of clothing the thief hasnÂ’t tossed yet? Think about it.
Ace,
I am having a Michael Crichton, Gell-Mann Amnesia effect, level of clarity. I am very qualified at analyzing evidence in a criminal matter. Unless I am mistaken as to your profession, you are not. That doesn’t mean you are going to be wrong in your analysis about a particular case. You’re just incredibly wrong here, and it will make me very suspect any other time you attempt to lay out facts for your audience. To give just one easy example, you state that the prosecution presented conclusions based on faulty evidence, such as suggesting a fake break in when “all the glass fell inside the apartment and there's no glass outside the window, on the ground beneath it.”Obviously, glass from a real break in would fall inside the apartment. That just wasn’t the claim by the prosecution. The claim was that the glass was on the inside of the apartment, AND IT WAS ON ARTICLES OF CLOTHING PRESUMABLY TOSSED BY THE SUPPOSED THIEF. So now I ask you: how does glass from the break in get ON TOP of clothing the thief hasn’t tossed yet? Think about it.
Posted by: Chris E. at April 05, 2013 06:56 PM (0EdX0)
510
I know a little about fast and furious. that's not what this topic is about so i don't want to talk about that now. if you are implying i' an Obama fan boy for being anti-Knox, you are a fool.
you guys are getting played by the Knox PR machine if you think this babe wasn't involved. She had no alibi, she falsely accused her boss immediatley after she was informed that her druggie boyfriend had changed his story and said she left his apartment for 4 hours when the murder occured. after she confessed this, she wrote a very long written declaration that she volunteered to do and repeated the same thing. You should read this declaration. It doesn't come across as somebody who was coerced into a false confession, she sounds like a little girl who has been caught lying but still trying to persuade/confuse her sucker dad into letting her off the hook.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 07:09 PM (7zSvv)
511
I know a couple of guys that swear they cured their apnea by practicing "circular breathing" on a didgeridoo. Your mileage may vary. The boyfriend's apnea improved after he lost some weight. He still doesn't sleep well though.
Posted by: Notsothoreau at April 05, 2013 07:12 PM (Lqy/e)
512
Warden, re CPAP:
Some people can tolerate the mask. I can; my wife can't.
I don't fall asleep driving any more since I got a CPAP ~8 years ago. That'd a Good Thing.
Posted by: phunctor` at April 05, 2013 07:15 PM (E0PaU)
513
the knox people have focused on demonizing this prosecuter, who is a very good and intelligent lawyer. when you see people say he is like that idiot in the Duke lacrosse case, you know their investment in PR has been a success, because he is not like that all. He has never said this was a Satanic ritual or witchcraft related. his theories have always been about drugs, sex, and tension/jealousy between two girls. Knox kept a vibrater out in the bathroom and she was always bringing strange men over and this Meridith girl didn't like this at all. It is possible she slut shamed Knox some and Knox wanted to teach her a lesson.
what a lot of people don't know is these two turned off their cell phone the night before around the same time, and then they turned them back on real early in the morning around 5 am. neither one of them had a history of turning off their cell phones. both said they slept in to 10 am the next day, so why did they turn on their cell phones at 5 am?
Another data point is Knox called her mom at 3 am seattle time the night of the murder, despite no history of calling her mom in the middle of the night. she called her mom prior to the body being discovered in a state of panic, something her own mom was confused about when she learned her daughter had actually called her before anything had happened. Knox, as usual, can't remember calling her mom in the middle of the night in seattle.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 07:19 PM (7zSvv)
514
Tom Sawyer:
Do you have any links for your claims in 492,494 and 495?
You seem to have missed / avoided the preceding 491 posts, with many links to, well, alternate theories (that seem to fit much better). Any rebuttal?
You seem to be regurgitating the Italian prosecutor's bullshit; the same stuff that was evacuated by the appeals court. This isn't rebuttal; you need to pick apart the alternative theories.
Posted by: Arbalest at April 05, 2013 07:24 PM (yldXV)
515
for all you people demonizing the Italian legal system, despite know nothing about it, understand it is very pro-defendant. Knox got an automatic appeal trial despite no evidence that the first one was not fair, which would be rare in the US. The jury lead by 2 judgesi s required to defend and explain their reasoning in reaching their verdict, which helps the defendant in an appeal, b/c they know what was important to the jury. the supreme court overturned the appeal verdict b/c it was based on a lot of faulty logic, such as two white people could not commit a crime with a black guy, and that the fact Knox falsely accused an innocent man of the crime could not be seen as an indication of her participation in the murder.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 07:25 PM (7zSvv)
516
arbalest,
i've been much more specific than you have so far, while you have demonized the prosecuter and shown no proof he's the great satan.
if we are going to start springing chicks accused of murder simply b/c they accuse the cops of torturing them and demonization of the prosecuter, we might as well do away with the whole justice thing. She's never proven anybody beat her in the police station, and she wasn't even called in to the police station, she tagged along with her drug friend boyfriend and they just asked her some questions after he changed his story.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 07:29 PM (7zSvv)
517
do you want to hang your IQ on the belief that this babe is innocent? Transcript of Amanda Knox's handwritten statement to police on the evening of November 6, the day she was arrested:
This is very strange, I know, but really what happened is as confusing to me as it is to everyone else. I have been told there is hard evidence saying that I was at the place of the murder of my friend when it happened. This, I want to confirm, is something that to me, if asked a few days ago, would be impossible.
I know that Raffaele has placed evidence against me, saying that I was not with him on the night of Meredith's murder, but let me tell you this. In my mind there are things I remember and things that are confused. My account of this story goes as follows, despite the evidence stacked against me:
On Thursday November 1 I saw Meredith the last time at my house when she left around 3 or 4 in the afternoon. Raffaele was with me at the time. We, Raffaele and I, stayed at my house for a little while longer and around 5 in the evening we left to watch the movie Amelie at his house. After the movie I received a message from Patrik [sic], for whom I work at the pub "Le Chic". He told me in this message that it wasn't necessary for me to come into work for the evening because there was no one at my work.
Now I remember to have also replied with the message: "See you later. Have a good evening!" and this for me does not mean that I wanted to meet him immediately. In particular because I said: "Good evening!" What happened after I know does not match up with what Raffaele was saying, but this is what I remember. I told Raffaele that I didn't have to work and that I could remain at home for the evening. After that I believe we relaxed in his room together, perhaps I checked my email. Perhaps I read or studied or perhaps I made love to Raffaele. In fact, I think I did make love with him.
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However, I admit that this period of time is rather strange because I am not quite sure. I smoked marijuana with him and I might even have fallen asleep. These things I am not sure about and I know they are important to the case and to help myself, but in reality, I don't think I did much. One thing I do remember is that I took a shower with Raffaele and this might explain how we passed the time. In truth, I do not remember exactly what day it was, but I do remember that we had a shower and we washed ourselves for a long time. He cleaned my ears, he dried and combed my hair.
One of the things I am sure that definitely happened the night on which Meredith was murdered was that Raffaele and I ate fairly late, I think around 11 in the evening, although I can't be sure because I didn't look at the clock. After dinner I noticed there was blood on Raffaele's hand, but I was under the impression that it was blood from the fish. After we ate Raffaele washed the dishes but the pipes under his sink broke and water flooded the floor. But because he didn't have a mop I said we could clean it up tomorrow because we (Meredith, Laura, Filomena and I) have a mop at home. I remember it was quite late because we were both very tired (though I can't say the time).
The next thing I remember was waking up the morning of Friday November 2nd around 10am and I took a plastic bag to take back my dirty cloths to go back to my house. It was then that I arrived home alone that I found the door to my house was wide open and this all began. In regards to this "confession" that I made last night, I want to make clear that I'm very doubtful of the verity of my statements because they were made under the pressures of stress, shock and extreme exhaustion. Not only was I told I would be arrested and put in jail for 30 years, but I was also hit in the head when I didn't remember a fact correctly. I understand that the police are under a lot of stress, so I understand the treatment I received.
However, it was under this pressure and after many hours of confusion that my mind came up with these answers. In my mind I saw Patrik in flashes of blurred images. I saw him near the basketball court. I saw him at my front door. I saw myself cowering in the kitchen with my hands over my ears because in my head I could hear Meredith screaming. But I've said this many times so as to make myself clear: these things seem unreal to me, like a dream, and I am unsure if they are real things that happened or are just dreams my head has made to try to answer the questions in my head and the questions I am being asked.
But the truth is, I am unsure about the truth and here's why:
1. The police have told me that they have hard evidence that places me at the house, my house, at the time of Meredith's murder. I don't know what proof they are talking about, but if this is true, it means I am very confused and my dreams must be real.
2. My boyfriend has claimed that I have said things that I know are not true. I KNOW I told him I didn't have to work that night. I remember that moment very clearly. I also NEVER asked him to lie for me. This is absolutely a lie. What I don't understand is why Raffaele, who has always been so caring and gentle with me, would lie about this. What does he have to hide? I don't think he killed Meredith, but I do think he is scared, like me. He walked into a situation that he has never had to be in, and perhaps he is trying to find a way out by disassociating himself with me.
Honestly, I understand because this is a very scary situation. I also know that the police don't believe things of me that I know I can explain, such as:
1. I know the police are confused as to why it took me so long to call someone after I found the door to my house open and blood in the bathroom. The truth is, I wasn't sure what to think, but I definitely didn't think the worst, that someone was murdered. I thought a lot of things, mainly that perhaps someone got hurt and left quickly to take care of it. I also thought that maybe one of my roommates was having menstral [sic] problems and hadn't cleaned up. Perhaps I was in shock, but at the time I didn't know what to think and that's the truth. That is why I talked to Raffaele about it in the morning, because I was worried and wanted advice.
2. I also know that the fact that I can't fully recall the events that I claim took place at Raffaele's home during the time that Meredith was murdered is incriminating. And I stand by my statements that I made last night about events that could have taken place in my home with Patrik, but I want to make very clear that these events seem more unreal to me that what I said before, that I stayed at Raffaele's house.
3. I'm very confused at this time. My head is full of contrasting ideas and I know I can be frustrating to work with for this reason. But I also want to tell the truth as best I can. Everything I have said in regards to my involvement in Meredith's death, even though it is contrasting, are the best truth that I have been able to think.
[illegible section]
I'm trying, I really am, because I'm scared for myself. I know I didn't kill Meredith. That's all I know for sure. In these flashbacks that I'm having, I see Patrik as the murderer, but the way the truth feels in my mind, there is no way for me to have known because I don't remember FOR SURE if I was at my house that night. The questions that need answering, at least for how I'm thinking are:
1. Why did Raffaele lie? (or for you) Did Raffaele lie?
2. Why did I think of Patrik?
3. Is the evidence proving my pressance [sic] at the time and place of the crime reliable? If so, what does this say about my memory? Is it reliable?
4. Is there any other evidence condemning Patrik or any other person?
3. Who is the REAL murder [sic]? This is particularly important because I don't feel I can be used as condemning testimone [sic] in this instance.
I have a clearer mind that I've had before, but I'm still missing parts, which I know is bad for me. But this is the truth and this is what I'm thinking at this time. Please don't yell at me because it only makes me more confused, which doesn't help anyone. I understand how serious this situation is, and as such, I want to give you this information as soon and as clearly as possible.
If there are still parts that don't make sense, please ask me. I'm doing the best I can, just like you are. Please believe me at least in that, although I understand if you don't. All I know is that I didn't kill Meredith, and so I have nothing but lies to be afraid of.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 07:33 PM (7zSvv)
518
it seems to me a coerced statement would be real short and almost cryptic I DID IT kind of thing, not what Knox wrote, which reeks of evasiveness. her best defense is she's too stupid to execute a murder and cleanup based on her Meghan McCain type of prose in that letter. I love where she states "Who is the REAL murder [sic]? This is particularly important" You think? Hah!
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 07:39 PM (7zSvv)
519
TS: wasn't that the statement she made after the Italian police kept her up overnight and didn't let her sleep or leave until the next day? It's been a while, but I thought that's when she had written that statement.
Ace, I've read Preston's book about this prosecutor, and he really is a preshuss snowflake kind of guy. I'm not a huge fan of Preston, but if everything he wrote is true I have serious doubts about Knox's guilt as well. (and I see no reason, or even a way make it up and get away with it, he did a pretty good job of laying out details)
As a side note, this is one of the reasons I'm kind of giving up on Coulter. She's on the wrong side of this one. I used to like her articles, but lately I feel like she's just grasping at relevancy straws.
Ace, I've read Preston's book about this prosecutor, and he really is a preshuss snowflake kind of guy. I'm not a huge fan of Preston, but if everything he wrote is true I have serious doubts about Knox's guilt as well. (and I see no reason, or even a way make it up and get away with it, he did a pretty good job of laying out details)
As a side note, this is one of the reasons I'm kind of giving up on Coulter. She's on the wrong side of this one. I used to like her articles, but lately I feel like she's just grasping at relevancy straws.
Posted by: Book at April 05, 2013 07:42 PM (tWQxC)
520
another thing people don't know is she showed up to trial in the early going wearing an ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE t-shirt which doesn't seem pyschologically consistent with someone who claims she was tortured into falsely accusing her boss (all the police did is ask her why she told him she would see him later in the text to him on her phone). If you were tortured by the police, would you show up at court and act all nonchalant and callow or would you be real serious and scared? I think the latter.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 07:44 PM (7zSvv)
521
506 Tom Sawyer
"i've been much more specific than you have so far, while you have demonized the prosecuter and shown no proof he's the great satan."
No, you haven't. You've merely regurgitated the prosecutor's line. I point to the multitude of links in the preceding 491 comments.
They're there for you to rebut.
"it seems to me a coerced statement would be real short and almost cryptic I DID IT kind of thing, not what Knox wrote ..."
... real short AND almost cryptic ???
Maybe you have a point about "cryptic":
...Please don't yell at me because it only makes me more confused, which doesn't help anyone.
Looks like the Italian police really did wring this "confession" out of her, but, being that her Italian wasn't particularly good, and their English seems to have been not much better, she was able to leave little clues about what was happening to her ... then and there ....
And now, back to your rebuttal of the links provided in the preceding 491 comments ...
Posted by: Arbalest at April 05, 2013 07:49 PM (yldXV)
522
i don't know much about Preston but if you go to truejustice.org they have a link on the right with a bunch of stuff about him.
there's clearly been an attempt by Knox PR people and Preston is probably one of them, to demonize the prosecuter which is relying on the fact that people in America don't know much about Italy or the prosecuter. They are trying to tap into this innocent girl abused by police in 3rd world country narrative, which is really insulting to Italy. Why would the police want this girl to be guilty of murder, she comes across as some sexed up college bimbo, nothing more. she couldn't explain where the hell she was that night and what is the probabiliy that you just can't remember what you were doing on the night of the murder and have something to back it up like phone calls, friends, social media, computer usage, etc. i bet she coudl nail down where she was for all times in the days before and after the murder with specifics but jsut so happens she can't remember anything the night of the murder? her boyfriend is equally confused.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 07:51 PM (7zSvv)
523
the reality is if this babe was a guy, Italy would have already convicted him and probably done away with their no death penalty rule as well to put him down for this heinous murder. she's been able to exploit her gender big time b/c nobody wants to believe some young "pretty" college girl butchered her roommate with a knife, and the idea of police brutality and government overreach is something that appeals to conservative and liberterians and that is how they are getting sucked in.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 07:56 PM (7zSvv)
524
TS: I have no idea what she was doing that night. But the fact remains that just because she's a bimbo, airhead, lacking in empathy, and likely marijuana junky- doesn't make her guilty of murder. There's just not enough evidence to suggest she did it. There IS a whole lot of evidence to suggest that the guy who is already in jail and who already confessed to doing it on his own? That he mostly likely killed Merideth on his own.
And that prosecutor? Yea... maybe read up on him before you decide that people are on a witch hunt to make him look bad. Because witch hunts happen to be his speciality... Like I said, that Preston book was pretty eye-opening. Might want to read it before you decide he's lying.
And that prosecutor? Yea... maybe read up on him before you decide that people are on a witch hunt to make him look bad. Because witch hunts happen to be his speciality... Like I said, that Preston book was pretty eye-opening. Might want to read it before you decide he's lying.
Posted by: Book at April 05, 2013 07:59 PM (tWQxC)
525
um, i never said it made her guilty but your theory that is makes her innocent doesn't add up. Most homicides are probably drug related and this homicide is so weird, almost like a noir crime book movie plot, that there is almost no doubt there were drugs involved.
they have already ruled that there is no way one guy was able to hold this athletic girl down, try to rape her and stab her with at least two different knives. the lone wolf scenario has been shot down. the hellman judge on the appeals court went for the lone wolf scenario, he said there was no proof of a staged break-in, despite no evidence on the exterior of the house of a break-in, and that there was no evidence of a clean-up, despite there being zero Knox fingerprints in the house, not even on the door , and she lived there. a good jury isn't going to buy any of these assumptions.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 08:04 PM (7zSvv)
526
512 Tom Sawyer
"i don't know much about Preston but if you go to truejustice.org they have a link on the right with a bunch of stuff about him."
"truejustice.org" is more than a bit misleading. The front page banner actually reads:
"True Justice for Meredith Kercher"
... and, from reading the articles, there is a clear (and understandable) bias FOR Meredith Kercher, and a bit, well, more than a bit, of a bias AGAINST Amanda Knox.
The Kerchers lost their daughter, to murderer. Their rage is understandable, and everyone wants the murderer to be caught and brought to justice.
It's starting to look like the murderer is not Amanda Knox ... even the Italian appeals court says so ... and they are not susceptible to the Knox's PR machine.
Posted by: Arbalest at April 05, 2013 08:08 PM (yldXV)
527
Preston is a fiction writer, this guy is a lawyer.
I want you guys to produce some quotes from the prosecuter claiming this case was about satanic rituals or witchcraft. you wont' find them b/c he never did. He did an interview with CNN and asserted that he never made this claim and he didn't know where it came from.
his first motive theory was centered on a drug fueld sex game that got out of control. he modified that to a motive of Knox and Meridith have some tensions over Knox's slutty lifesytle and possibly money issues.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 08:08 PM (7zSvv)
528
the Kercher's seem like reasonable people. I think they are much more likeable than the Knox family. Knox's dad especially is a goon. the kercher's think she's guilty as hell and they don't seem like blood thristy types. I think that is something.
the true justice people are biased but it is a biased based on facts and evidence. like a conservative bias.
the true justice people are actually lawyeers. the pro knox people tend to be PR kind of people.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 08:15 PM (7zSvv)
529
OJ Simpson looked for the REAL murderer on the golf course. Knox is going to look for the REAL murderer in sex shops, probably while having sex. b/c it is especially important to find the murderer in a murder case.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 08:24 PM (7zSvv)
530
if you go to this link http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C460/
this lawyer who goes by Kermit has a powerpoint about all the evidence against Knox under the section called Powerpoints #17: Why The Totality of Evidence Suggests Knox And Sollecito Are Guilty Just As Charged.
he does a real good job of pulling all the evidence together b/c it is a lot of little things that all point to their guilt.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 08:30 PM (7zSvv)
531
the Kercher's seem like reasonable people. I think they are much more likeable than the Knox family. Knox's dad especially is a goon.
A few months ago, I was called for jury duty. The defendant, an average-height, slightly-built, middle aged man with male pattern balding and black glasses, seemed quite polite and likable. The charges were multiple counts of fondling his teenage (15-16) step daughter(s).
the kercher's think she's guilty as hell and they don't seem like blood thristy types. I think that is something.
The Kerchers have had their daughter murdered, and are in shock, want justice, and the local prosecutor points to Knox. Thus, the Kerchers want Knox. Is this the sort of justice you want?
The Italian appeals court overturned Knox's conviction. Preston makes a good case that the prosecutor is a clown, and botched the case. The prosecutor is ... unhappy ... but apparently won't rebut Preston's claims. Why? Perhaps you can.
Are you sure you want to rely "likability" and "that's something"?
the true justice people are biased but it is a biased based on facts and evidence. like a conservative bias.
This isn't how their articles read.
the true justice people are actually lawyeers. the pro knox people tend to be PR kind of people.
Lawyers don't write the way the "True Justice for Meredith Kercher" writers write. PR fools do.
Posted by: Arbalest at April 05, 2013 08:32 PM (yldXV)
532
i don't know about preston but again, he's a fiction writer. he's not a lawyer, and he's demonizing that lawyer over there. one of his claims is the prosecuter said this was about satanic rituals and he never claimed that. so if if he is making something this big up, why should we trust him on the rest of it? Show me a quote by that prosecuter where he says this is about witchcraft or satanic rituals, he never advanced that theory.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 08:35 PM (7zSvv)
533
i think it is funny how Knox has been able to wrap herself up in the American flag and so many people are being duped by her and her family. it's almost unpatrotic at this point to think she's guilty as hell.
Coulter is one of the most "paranoid" people about government, especialy on TSA stuff. You really think she's going to think Knox is guilty is she thinks there is any crediblity to her claims about the cops forcing her to give the false statement?
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 08:38 PM (7zSvv)
534
"i don't know about preston but again, he's a fiction writer.
If you "don't know about preston ..." then how doyou know "he's a fiction writer."?
Your logic, or lack thereof, casts doubt on your arguments. If it turns out that Knox really is guilty, you are making it harder to prove so.
Posted by: Arbalest at April 05, 2013 08:40 PM (yldXV)
535
Tom, I haven't followed this case at all but your last two posts destroy any sense that you are approaching this objectively.
"the true justice people are biased but it is a biased based on facts and evidence."
This is a bullshit statement. It's like the people who say their biggest flaw is 'caring too much'.
"the true justice people are actually lawyeers."
Lawyers are experts on the law. They are not experts on what happened inside someone's apartment on a particular night. They also can be every bit as prejudicial as other people (see Nancy Grace).
" Knox is going to look for the REAL murderer in sex shops, probably while having sex."
Holy shit. You actually expect people to take you seriously? The real murderer is already convicted and in prison, but you can't help but go for a cheap insult.
Posted by: Aaron D at April 05, 2013 08:41 PM (GHZkq)
536
arb,
why should I have to deal with the Preston guy? He has nothing to do with this case. I think he made up a lot stuff about the prosecuter. It sounds like Donald trump hyperbole. by the way, Trump is a believer in Knox's innocence. that should be a big red flag for everybody.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 08:42 PM (7zSvv)
537
aaron,
it's a thing called "satire". I made a thing called a "joke".
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 08:43 PM (7zSvv)
538
drug boy's dna was on the bra clasp in the bedroom.
his bloody footprint is on the floormat in the bathroom.
knox's dna is on the handle of the knife found at drug boy's apartment. the victim's dna was on the blade.
there were 5 mixed blood/dna traces Knox and victim in the house including one in the room where the staged breakin occured. this is evidence Knox was bleeding at the same time as the victim. Remember, Knox said there was no blood when she left the house, only when she returned, so she time stamped the blood as recent.
there was at least one luminol blood trace footprint of Knox in the house.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 08:47 PM (7zSvv)
539
why should I have to deal with the Preston guy
You keep writing that he writes fiction. Ok, make your case. That's how things work here.
He has nothing to do with this case.
So he has no emotional involvement, no need to have a certain outcome, no matter what.
I think he made up a lot stuff about the prosecuter.
Ok, make your case. Right now, it looks like the prosecutor is, truly, an insane clown.
It sounds like Donald trump hyperbole. by the way, Trump is a believer in Knox's innocence. that should be a big red flag for everybody.
Guilt-by-Association??? How ... open-minded ... fair ... just ... progressive ... of you.
Posted by: Arbalest at April 05, 2013 08:55 PM (yldXV)
540
i read something by one of the british newspapers, they actually sent reporters over to seattle to discover some stuff about Knox.
one guy they talked said Knox had offered to pay some guys to wear masks and brandish knives to scare some girls on April Fools Day.
the murder of meridith happened the day after Halloween. i think there is a good chance this was originally about just scaring her with a halloweenish prank. knox's cell phone record indicated she tried to hook up with Meridith on Halloween night despite the fact they were already had a falling out by that time and were not hanging out socially.
they were also able to discover that Knox wasn't just a weekend kind of drug user but that she seemed to be a serious abuser and one guy said it was almost like she had a chemical imbalance and needed the drugs. i don't think that is insignificant in this case.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 08:55 PM (7zSvv)
541
Arb,
prove one thing you are saying about this prosecuter. don't cite Preston to do it, and provide quotes of this prosecuter taking about satanic rituals and withcraft in the Knox trial. he hasn't done it. you say he has, so there should be ample quotes. he's always said this case is about drugs and tension b/t the girls, jealousy, maybe money issues.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 08:57 PM (7zSvv)
542
i still dont' see how anybody can read Knox's written declaration and a transcript of her court testimony and find her remotely believable. i can't think of somebody who has been accused of murder in the past 20 years who seems more guilty than this babe.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 08:59 PM (7zSvv)
543
what a lot of people don't know is that the black guy was friends with the drug guys who lived in the downstair unit at Knox's apartment. the black guy was attracted to Knox. Knox probably knew that and used that to encourage his involvement in the murder and attempted rape of meridith.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 09:03 PM (7zSvv)
544
why would the black guy break into the high window of the cottage that is visible from the main road when there is a window lower down on the other side of the house that was actually used by people to break in on two previous occasions?
Also, how would Guede know that all the other flatmates were gone from the weekend? that is pretty improbale. the reality is Knox knew her flatmates weree gong to be gone except for Meridith, and she knew the drug guys who lived downstairs were going out of town as well. it was the perfect opportunity to kill meridith with nobody around to be witnesses and only she had this knowledge.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 09:07 PM (7zSvv)
545
"prove one thing you are saying about this prosecuter. don't cite Preston to do it, ...
No. I cite ALL of Preston's work. He makes the case; you or the Italian prosecutor get to disprove Preston.
"... and provide quotes of this prosecuter taking about satanic rituals and withcraft in the Knox trial.
he hasn't done it. you say he has, ..."
Show me where any of my previous posts contain the words "satanic rituals" or "withcraft"
I've posted about 10 comments so far ... there should be ample quotes.
" he's always said this case is about drugs and tension b/t the girls, jealousy, maybe money issues.
Perhaps he's correct, but he's being a bit too generic; the people involved aren't quite old enough, or living the sort of life where drugs or money is likely cause for murder. He might be right, but Preston and others, including the appeals court, think otherwise ... and seem to make a better case.
Posted by: Arbalest at April 05, 2013 09:10 PM (yldXV)
546
arb, 8 jurors found them guilty when all the evidence was looked at. in italy, it doesn't have to be a unaimus decision, yet every juror voted guilty. you really believe there was no evidence? 8 jurors just wanted to sentence her to 30 years in prison b/c she's a slutty college girl? C'mon man.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 09:13 PM (7zSvv)
547
arb,
i will look into the Preston guy. i don't know what his claims are but i know the true justice people have talked about him.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 09:14 PM (7zSvv)
548
"8 jurors found them guilty when all the evidence was looked at. "
True, but in Italy, using Italian law and the Italian justice system, Guilt is decided by a judge, upon reviewing the evidence and verdict.
The judge said no.
"8 jurors just wanted to sentence her to 30 years in prison b/c she's a slutty college girl? C'mon man."
... OJ ...
Posted by: Arbalest at April 05, 2013 09:18 PM (yldXV)
549
FWIW, the murder of Meredith Kercher bothers me, and every other regular Ace commenter.
You are also, no doubt, aware of a general low-level anti-American sentiment in Europe. A lot of politicians, like the French, and Italian Communists, use it, and encourage it, ever so slightly. A prosecutor who wanted to win a murder conviction, with weak evidence ... and a slightly sympathetic jury ... you might want to check for signs of this sort of occurance.
If Amanda Knox is not guilty, how will incarcerating her serve justice?
Posted by: Arbalest at April 05, 2013 09:25 PM (yldXV)
550
you refuse to look at the dna evidence, the footprint evidence, the phone record evidence, and their utter lack of an alibi to go along with their really odd behavoir and Knox's evasiive nonsensical declaration where she doubles down on her charge that the black bar owner did it. she never once tried to retract that when he was thrown in jail for 14 days.
did you know knox was given a guitar to play while in prison, along with a computer and a lot of books. none of the other prisoners got al these perks so this notion she was mistreated over there is just the core strategy of a defense team without a case and you are the kind of tool that falls for it.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 09:27 PM (7zSvv)
551
Tom Sawyer. No offense but you are an idiot...
To say the Italian justice system (or any civil law/inquisitorial system) is pro-defendant is asinine.
Yes, defendants get an automatic appeal, but thats only after having no laws of evidence, no laws of proper interrogation, and no presumption of innocence.
Oh, and not to mention, the prosecution has the same automatic appeal. In fact, as ace pointed out, no jury trial in Italy is final until an appellate judge has reviewed the facts.
Let me know where you went to law school and I'll help you demand a refund for not teaching you the basic differences between an adversarial and inquisitorial system.
Its not like I spent a year in law school in Italy or anything...
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 09:30 PM (H0Rot)
552
i think the anti-american sentiment is justified when we ridicule the italian legal system as inferior simply b/c it is not american, and when we presume this girl to be innocent despite a massive amount of evidence against her, simply b/c she's an American. everybody is always trying to make this case about something other than a murder, you have feminists trying to make it about slut shaming and women rights, you have hardcore libertians trying to make it about police brutality despite no evidence of this, you got people trying to make it into america vs the rest of the world. drop these phony themes and just talk about the specifics of the evidence against her and drug boy. who the hell can't remember where they were an entire night?
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 09:32 PM (7zSvv)
553
"did you know knox was given a guitar to play while in prison, along with a computer and a lot of books. none of the other prisoners got al these perks ..."
Once she signed the "confession", sweating her became pointless, and even a liability.
"... so this notion she was mistreated over there is just the core strategy of a defense team without a case and you are the kind of tool that falls for it."
WHo fell for .. what? Read my precious sentence.
Also, where is you list of my comments mentioning "satanic" shit / "witchcraft"?
Posted by: Arbalest at April 05, 2013 09:34 PM (yldXV)
554
the case isn't final until the supreme court signs off on it. i've seen a lot of people talk about double jeopardy but she had not been officially ruled not guilty by the supreme court.
the judge on the appeals court apparently had no criminal case expereience and no dna evidence experience, from what i read. if you read his decision, it reads like he just accepts everything amanda says on face value. he said poor AManda got treated unfairly b/c she and drug boy were spotted buying g-strings in a sex shop a day after the murder, and he seems to have this strong white knight syndrome boner for her in general.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 09:37 PM (7zSvv)
555
and yes, the American justice system is better. Its better in almost every way. Its not all us, we got it from England; but it is in every way superior to the Roman-based system used in most other countries (at least in terms of criminal law, in civil law you could convince me otherwise).
There is a reason the Anglosphere has dominated the globe since the 1500s, we do things better.
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 09:37 PM (H0Rot)
556
544:
If I was writing a comedy sketch about the stupidest defenders of the Knox prosecution I could not come up with anything funnier than this comment.
Prediction: The "everyone is guilty" sentiment among many conservatives will not be so popular once the force of govt gets turned against us.
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 09:41 PM (H0Rot)
557
she wasn't even a suspect at the time she says she was tortured by the police. her boyfriend was called in, she tagged along b/c she was scared he was going to sell her out, and he did, then she flipped her story after 2 hours of questioning and accused her boss. Knox isn't a girlie girl type, she played soccer and she comes across as pretty cold. she certainly never appeared to have been hit by the police at any time. why would the police need to beat her, she's got no alibi. she claims they wanted her to accuse the black guy but all they were doing is asking about her text to him the night of the murder. why would they think her black boss was the killer? that makes no sense. i think the fact she accused a black guy of the crime, and the fact another black guy was invovled in guede, is an admission that she knew a black guy was involved.
again read her written declaration that she gave voluntarily. she asked to write that, they did not solicit it from her. that sounds like somebody who is sane to you?
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 09:42 PM (7zSvv)
558
i think the italian system is better in the sense the jury has to explain the logic behind their verdict.
i think the main proble with the italian system is the speed of the trial which seems way too slow.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 09:43 PM (7zSvv)
559
again read her written declaration that she gave voluntarily. she asked to write that, they did not solicit it from her.
The one you posted in you comment #507?
Please don't yell at me because it only makes me more confused, which doesn't help anyone.
... that sounds like somebody who is sane not under extreme duress to you?
Posted by: Arbalest at April 05, 2013 09:46 PM (yldXV)
560
it sounds like a little girl trying to dupe her dad.
cops are tyring to find a killer/rapist guy. they have to be able to be aggressive in the questioning process. Knox is clearly evasive if you read her statement which is gibberish. americans reading that are confused so how do you think italians can get anything from it.
she also declares that she knows they are just doing their job in the same statement.
again, if they are forcing her to say this, why does it need to be so wordy? Just say the black guy did it in the bedroom with the knife and be done with it.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 09:52 PM (7zSvv)
561
Okay, I'm going to make this last point and then leave b/c I really dont think its fair to argue with you.
Our system was designed (based on the English system) so that Judges decided law, and juries decided fact. The idea was to not allow one exalted individual to decide facts just by his own damn self.
Ignoring all my previous points about the faults of an inquisitorial system, you state that the Italian system is better b.c "the jury has to explain".
This is why I call you an idiot. A jury is autonomous in this country, thats the whole purpose of having a jury. The Italian system added a jury essentially for show b/c the judge still has utmost authority of law and fact. If you dont understand the difference between law and fact, please read a book.
I can scarcely believe that you are a conservative with your absolute deference to government; but if you are, consider yourself on trial for hate speech with no jury and Ruth Bader Ginsberg as presiding judge, Eric Holder as prosecutor, and some court appointed hack as your lawyer.
Then imagine interrogation with no attorney, no rights, and no habeas corpus. How do you think that trial turns out for you?
Oh and if the powerless jury acquits you, and so does RBG...the next stop is another judge, Elena Kagen who can override the finding of fact by your trial jury.
Your bloodlust for this girl has impaired your ability to reason. Go to law school, or better yet just take a class on criminal justice, and get back to me about how great the Italian system is.
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 09:59 PM (H0Rot)
562
"it sounds like a little girl trying to dupe her dad."
Not even TV shows use these lines when portraying a little girl trying to dupe her dad. They use them to portray other "situations".
"she also declares that she knows they are just doing their job in the same statement."
Ever read the statements made by US POWs in Korea or Vietnam?
"again, if they are forcing her to say this, why does it need to be so wordy?"
Again, ever read the statements made by US POWs in Korea or Vietnam?
Posted by: Arbalest at April 05, 2013 10:00 PM (yldXV)
563
you call me an idiot but you can't debate the evidence on the table in this case. you want to get off in to these general themes and then talk about italian law, and anything else but you don't want to talk about the facts on the table. why did she call her mom at 3 am seattle time when she had no history of calling her mom and this was before the body had been discovered. she said she didn't remember, do you believe that? Why did she and her boyfriend turn off their phone the night before and then turn them back on around 5 am in th emorning despite telling police they slept in?
why did drug boy tell the postal police that had already called the real police but the phone record indicate he did not call until after the postal police arrived at the cottage.
why wasn't drug boy able to knock down meridith's door? it was a flimsy door and he was a kick boxer. when a friend of one of th eother flatmates arrived, he was able to knock down the door no problem.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 10:03 PM (7zSvv)
564
I can't believe that in 500+ comments, TS is about the only one who thinks she's guilty. I do, too. The glass on top of the clothes, which for some reason was totally glossed over until TS mentioned it, is just one of many very suspicious things. The cell phones is another,
This has nothing to do with automatic assumption of guilt. She appears guilty, and she acted guilty. Putting aside DNA, there's a lot of very very weird facts surrounding the case, as well. She could just be very unlucky, I suppose. But I don't think so.
Posted by: The Mega Independent at April 05, 2013 10:03 PM (Lq5WC)
565
how did amanda's lamp end up in meridith's locked bedroom on the floor. looks to me like it was used in the cleanup and then forgotten. who else would think to put her lamp in the bedroom on the floor?
the bloody footprint on the mat in the bathroom did not have any bloody footprints on the floor leading up to it, which is indicative of a clean up. who would need to clean up the apartment and stage a break in outside of Knox?
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 10:07 PM (7zSvv)
566
the innocent until proven guilt thing is kind of cliche. when there is a mountain of evidence against, you do have to prove your innocence or you will be found guilty. Knox is going back to jail if their defense doesn't come up with something better than the cops were mean to her and the prosectuer is Satan.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 10:08 PM (7zSvv)
567
Hmm two comments from two distinct posters, writing in the same style, making the same points in the same way...
Dude, I like Ann Coulter too, but she's wrong on this. She's right 98% of the time, and I have no clue what bug got up her ass about Knox, but she's wrong and you (both of you?) are wrong.
You gloss over the points I've made to make bullshit circumstantial arguments. She called her mom at 3am? Holy shit! I've done that too, and I've done it while in Europe! guess I'm a fuckin murderer!
And the "blame the black guy" thing is tired at best.
I'm still waiting to hear about where you got your JD. I'll help you file suit against them, I swear
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 10:10 PM (H0Rot)
568
she called her mom at 3 am, something she didn't have a history of doing, on the night of the murder, and she can't remember the call when asked about it. it seems like she would have some special motivation in calling her mom, waking her up, so she can't remember that?
i'm not a lawyer, I'm a mechanical engineer.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 10:12 PM (7zSvv)
569
again, even her mom was confused, b/c it turned out she had called her mom before the body was discovered. it looks like the girl had a weak moment and reached out to mommy on instinct b/c she knew she was in trouble.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 10:15 PM (7zSvv)
570
the circumstantial evidence in this case is overwhelming. all these little things point to her guilt. both knox and drug boy both just can't remember anything when asked pointed questions and they to play up their drug use as though it gave them amnesia.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 10:21 PM (7zSvv)
571
Out. I'm on the ONT, no offense but I cant really figure out a way to debate you, you are just too ill-informed.
Seriously, it sounds like you like this stuff, please read up on it. Independent of Knox, you really will see that the Common Law adversarial system is better. Be proud to be a citizen of a nation where the govt cant just declare you guilty.
You bring up good circumstantial evidence, circumstantial evidence is great when theres nothing else. But here we have physical evidence of a man who committed the crime, was convicted of committing the crime, and did not implicate anyone else in the crime.
Have you been overseas? sometimes the time difference doesnt occur to you. Its natural. I once called my girlfriend at 5am her time not even realizing it, she was kinda pissed cause she had to work that morning. Its hardly evidence of murder, especially when another person was convicted of the crime with physical evidence and no connection to the mysterious 3am caller.
Posted by: BSR at April 05, 2013 10:22 PM (H0Rot)
572
bsr,
you are using an appeal to authority type of argumentation and avoiding a discussion about the various data points of the case. this is where I will own you if you ever step inside the arena.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 10:24 PM (7zSvv)
573
who goes buy a g-string after a murder, 24 hours lady and is acting so inappropriate in the store with your boyfriend the store owner notices it and gives the store video of you over to the police? i think this chick was addicted to living on the edge and she got off on killing her roommate. this girl never stops thinking about sex even when her roommate has been butchered to death in a henious crime hours before. you sure you want to go to the mat for this babe? Want to tie your IQ to innocence bro? You suffer from the white knight syndrome.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 10:28 PM (7zSvv)
574
Actually the black guy Guede did say Knox and drug boy was there, so you don't even know what you are talking about. he said he had consensual sex with meridith then he went to the toilet and he came back and they had butchered her, and he tried to save her life but then got scared and ran off.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 10:33 PM (7zSvv)
575
what i can't figure out is how this sexed up babe when 4 years in prison without having sex. maybe they let her keep her vibrater.
did you know she actually testified about her vibrator in court? She gave an unsolicated comment about it being a joke from a friend. she kept it out in the open in the bathroom which seemed to bother meridith.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 10:36 PM (7zSvv)
576
I think the best book to read about this case is Barbie Nadaeu's Angel Face, the Story of Student Killer Amanda Knox. she thinks Knox is guilty but she's not in your face about it like a Nancy Grace type. she's written about the case for Daily Beast and she's one of the few reporters that has been to almost all the court hearings and lives in italy and speaks italian.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 05, 2013 10:40 PM (7zSvv)
577
Strangely, I just read ann coulter's piece on this.
Amanda Knox is guilty in her perspective.
No clue where she gets her info on this case from.
http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/03/cnn-embarrasses-itself-with-amanda-knox-coverage/
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 06, 2013 04:07 AM (XYSwB)
578
And, this clip on Knox was interesting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgnw9EM_qbg
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 06, 2013 04:17 AM (XYSwB)
579
Here is a Barbie Nadeau article about Doug Preston and the prosecuter in the Knox case:
In Knox’s hometown of Seattle, there has been a steady drumbeat of outrage about Mignini—how, Knox's supporters asked, could a prosecutor under investigation for misconduct be allowed to lead one of the country’s most notorious murder trials? But the Mignini case is not necessarily anomalous. In reality, active prosecutors are often under investigation in Italy. Unlike in the United States, even the most banal accusations against anyone in power usually leads to trial here, clogging the country’s courtrooms with tedious disputes that cast a negative light on the entire judicial system. Italian prosecutors and investigators have less leeway than their American counterparts, so bending the rules is often part of criminal investigations. Earlier this year, Mignini was cleared of other charges against him, including wiretapping journalists.
The Monster of Florence case is better known, however, because it inspired a bestselling book in the U.S. and Mignini had an ugly run-in with the author, Douglas Preston. In 2006, Preston was called into MigniniÂ’s office in Perugia while he was working with local journalist Mario Spezi on a true-crime account of the Florence murders, based on SpeziÂ’s yearsÂ’ covering the case, which he chronicled in an Italian book titled Dolci Colline di Sangue ( Sweet Bloody Hills). Tom Cruise, who later optioned PrestonÂ’s book, is rumored to be eyeing the role of Spezi, who became the indisputable expert on the Monster case.
Spezi will be the star of the movie, no doubt, but whether he will be cast as a hero or villain in real life is still up to the courts. Local authorities in Perugia say they long suspected him of manipulating evidence in the case, and Preston got caught up in their investigation into Spezi. In a bizarre intercepted phone conversation between Spezi and Preston, the two seem to discuss whether or not the police have “made their rounds,” which lead investigators to assume they had planted evidence to bolster their theory of the crime. Spezi was jailed for 23 days on suspicion of planting evidence. Preston was called into Mignini’s office for a two-plus-hour interrogation that the two describe very differently.
Preston says it was a terrifying moment that started out cordially but ended with Preston worrying that, “I could easily spend the rest of my life in an Italian prison.” Preston also says that Mignini ordered him to leave Italy. Mignini says that he never asked Preston to leave the country, but instead suggested that Preston didn’t understand Italian and that he should get a lawyer. Another witness to the meeting, a court assistant, backs up Mignini’s version, as does the curiously condensed transcript.
Preston’s description of his run-in with Mignini appears in both the first edition of Monster of Florence and the just-released paperback, and it has had a major impact on Americans’ views about the prosecution of Amanda Knox, even though the two cases are completely unrelated. In the latest edition of his book, Preston—who has not been in Perugia for the trial—has even added an afterword about the Kecher murder.
In the afterword, Preston writes that Mignini relies on a Roman psychic named Gabriella Carlizzi, who advises him on satanic sects—a point denied by both Carlizzi and Mignini, although they do admit knowing each other. (In fact, Mignini has charged Carlizzi with defamation on more than one occasion.) At one point in the investigation of Narducci in the Monster case, the prosecutors considered a satanic cult angle, and the investigators in Perugia initially suggested that Kercher might have been murdered in a satanic ritual because the murder occurred just after Halloween. But that theory has long been purged from the dossier and has played no part in the prosecution’s case against Knox.
The afterword also refers to a mysterious man covered in blood who was heard screaming “I killed her” the morning after Kercher’s murder. On June 23, though, witnesses in Perugia clarified this point for the jury in the Kercher murder trial, testifying that the man was embroiled in a lovers’ spat and was screaming into his cellphone “I will kill the bitch.”
Spezi is still under investigation in Perugia on a number of charges relating to the Monster of Florence case. Last spring, a local court denied his request for compensation for false imprisonment and refused to throw out the pending charges, which range from planting evidence to defamation. Preston is not considered a suspect but may be called as a witness if SpeziÂ’s case goes to trial. Spezi says Mignini is out to get him because he and Preston have a different theory about who the real Monster of Florence is. The case remains unsolved.
Mignini in turn believes that Spezi is behind the abuse of power accusations for the same reason. “Those who think this case against me is justified are the same people who think the case against Knox is not,” Mignini said after the hearing. “Let’s let the courts decide who is right.”
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 06:02 AM (7zSvv)
580
So I make one post and now I'm supposedly the dude who made like 50? Just because i happen to agree? Weird. I've been here a long time.
Posted by: The Mega Independent at April 06, 2013 06:35 AM (Lq5WC)
581
knox apologists always accuse the "guilters" of all being the same person on comment boards.
.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 06:40 AM (7zSvv)
582
Tom Sawyer, it all goes Pffft when you look at it for reals, instead of trying to clabber together something voluminous, enough to discourage inspection - and parse for prejudice.
Posted by: SarahW at April 06, 2013 06:44 AM (LYwCh)
583
sarah, i have no idea what side you are on, based on your comment.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 06:48 AM (7zSvv)
584
candice dempsey, whose book Ace talks about, lives in seattle and she knows the Knox family. she is some kind of food and leisure writer, she has only been to italy once or twice, and she has no experience covering criminal cases like this. she's biased toward Knox and not qualifed to be a reporter yet she's supposed to be somebody we turn to for information on this case?
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 06:50 AM (7zSvv)
585
Knox would be free today if she had simply said this is where I iwas that night, and this is what I did and provide evidence that corroborates it.
it's a pretty big deal not to have an alibi the night of a murder, especially in the age of social media and computers and cell phones. I'm amazed so many people seem to think this is irrelavant yet these same people attack the prosecution for not "proving" a motive, but how do you always know the motive of somoe deranged killer? It doesn't really matter why they did it and there were tensions b/t these two girls due to Knox's "slutty" behavoir.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 06:55 AM (7zSvv)
586
Bsr,
I think you are the idiot, its great you studied in Italy for a year but you are overlooking numerous pieces of circumstantial evidence, Knox's behavior and post murder actions show a true conciousness of guilt. Ann Coulter's bullshit detector is right as usual.
While she probably did not knife that poor girl, I think she is guilty of attempting to cover up her role in the crimes committed. She has not been truthful and you can bet the Italian police knew this!
Posted by: PeppermintPattysclitring at April 06, 2013 07:02 AM (HfA9V)
587
Knox's PR machine as basically tried to spin this case as being similar to the plot of the movie Brokedown Palace, and a lot of Americans have been duped by this.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 07:06 AM (7zSvv)
588
a lot of people don't know that Knox had this party in Seattle in which students were throwing rocks at moving cars on the street and at windows of houses. she had to pay a 300 dollar fine for it. she denied throwing rocks herself, and she told her mother the cops were heavy handed. these were "good" American cops she said this about so she's got a history of badmouthing cops when she's caught.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 07:10 AM (7zSvv)
589
Bsr,
I read through this comment thread and noticed your reluctance to address TomS's evidence and instead just bashing him. Way to win over the jury counselor!
You possess one of the most superior, holier than thou, smarter than thou attitudes I have ever witnessed on Ace's site. Its so egregious I do tend to believe you are a law school grad.
Crime sites like Tom referenced give dozens of examples of Knox's conciousness of guilt.
This case reminds me of the Jon Benet Ramsay case, where the preponderance of evidence clearly shows an inside job pretending to be a breakin thru the window. What parent or sibling murdered Jon Benet I do not know but I do know that both parents covered that crime up.
Posted by: PeppermintPattysclitring at April 06, 2013 07:27 AM (HfA9V)
590
I'm reading Bloom's Closing of the American Mind. If you want to know why you learned such weird stuff in college and why your own kids are "rebellious" now, read it.
As Ace said, it's intentional.
As Ace said, it's intentional.
Posted by: PJ at April 06, 2013 07:32 AM (ZWaLo)
591
Ace, your version (or should I say the version that you say the books proffer) differ quite a bit from An n Coulter's arguments and research on Knox. So, I am confused by which to believe.
Posted by: jb at April 06, 2013 08:11 AM (nyvHx)
592
Here is what the true justice website writes about Spezi and Preston.
Mario Spezi
Spezi is the Italian sleuthing partner of the American fictionalist Doug Preston who for his uninvited interference in what was an ongoing police investigation of the Monster of Florence case has faced legal woe after legal woe in recent years.
Spezi has already lost one defamation suit to the former MOF investigator and prominent novelist Michele Giuttari, he must in February face another, and he may have to face up to another half dozen more after that. We donÂ’t expect SpeziÂ’s losing streak to end any time soon.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 08:26 AM (7zSvv)
593
jb,
ace cites Nina Burleigh as one of his source. She got several numerous facts about this case wrong. the true justice website summarizes them:
1. She falsely claimed in her book The Fatal Gift of Beauty that Meredith Kercher was born on 28 December 1986 (The Fatal Gift of Beauty, Dramatis Personae).
According to the Massei report, her actual birthday is 28 December 1985 (p23).
2. She falsely claimed in her book that Rudy Guede was on 26 December 1983 (The Fatal Gift of Beauty, Dramatis Personae).
According to Rudy GuedeÂ’s sentencing report, he was born on 26 December 1986 (p2).
3. She falsely claimed that Rudy GuedeÂ’s DNA was inside MeredithÂ’s purse (The Fatal Gift of Beauty, p14).
According to the Massei report, his DNA was found on MeredithÂ’s purse (p43). The Micheli report specifies that his DNA was found on the zip.
4. She falsely claimed that Rudy GuedeÂ’s prints were on MeredithÂ’s walls (The Fatal Gift of Beauty, p14).
The Scientific Police were unable to identify any fingerprints on MeredithÂ’s walls. Guede was identified by a bloody palm print on a pillow case. (Micheli report, pages 10-11, The Massei report, p43, Rudy GuedeÂ’s sentencing report, p5).
5. She falsely claimed on the Sound Authors website that Mignini charged Knox with participating in a satanic rite.
Mignini has never claimed Meredith was killed during a satanic rite. In fact, he has specifically denied ever claiming this. In his letter to LInda Byron, he stated the following: “On the “sacrificial rite” question, I have never said that Meredith Kercher was the victim of a “sacrificial rite”.
Mignini told Drew Griffin the following in an interview on CNN: “I have never said that there might have been a satanic rite.”
6. She falsely claimed that Amanda Knox described a “vision” in her handwritten note to the police (The Fatal Gift of Beauty, XXIV Timeline).
Amanda Knox never claimed she had a “vision” in her handwritten note or any of her witness statements.
7. She falsely claimed in an article for Time that there were only two elements of “material evidence” against Knox and Sollecito - Sollecito’s DNA on Meredith’s bra clasp and Meredith’s DNA on Sollecito’s kitchen knife.
According to the prosecutionÂ’s experts, there were five instances of KnoxÂ’s DNA or blood mixed with MeredithÂ’s blood in three different locations in the cottage. Even Amanda KnoxÂ’s lawyers conceded that her blood had mingled with MeredithÂ’s blood.
In other words, Meredith and Amanda Knox were both bleeding at the same time.
According to the imprint experts, the bloody footprint on the blue bathmat in the bathroom matched the precise characteristics of SollecitoÂ’s foot, but couldnÂ’t possibly belong to Guede.
KnoxÂ’s and SollecitoÂ’s bare bloody footprints were revealed by Luminol in the hallway.
8. In the same article, she falsely claimed that the knife was picked at random.
Armando Finzi was the police officer who bagged the knife. He testified that he thought it was the murder weapon because it was compatible with the wound on MeredithÂ’s neck.
9. Another false claim from the article was that Rudy Guede left fingerprints at the crime scene.
He didnt. None at all.
10. In an article for the Columbia Chronicle she falsely claimed that freedom of speech doesnÂ’t exist in Italy.
Pretty bizarre. She should learn to read some Italian. They have as many freedoms as those in the US and UK. And the incarceration rate is 1/7 that of the US.
11.She falsely claimed in a Time article that the prosecutors painted Amanda Knox as an “angel-faced she-devil”.
It wasn’t prosecutors who painted who Amanda Knox as a “she-devil”, it was Carlo Pacelli, the lawyer who represents Diya Lumumba, at the trial in 2009.
Carlo PacelliÂ’s comments were widely reported by numerous good journalists who were present in the courtroom, so this would have been really easy to check. .
Barbie Nadeau describes the moment he referred to Knox as a she-devil in some detail in Angel Face: “Who is the real Amanda Knox?” he asks, pounding his fist in the table. “Is she the one we see before us here, all angelic? Or is really a she-devil focused on sex, drugs, and alcohol, living life on the edge?”
“She is the luciferina-she devil.” (Barbie Nadeau, Angel Face, page 124).
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 09:26 AM (7zSvv)
594
John and Patsy Ramsey were convicted in the media and I too thought they were. But when you actually look at the evidence, there only is evidence that there was an intruder.
Tom Sawyer, your facts are false. Simply false.
Just one example!!!
From the link: "Stefanoni testified today that Knox's DNA was found on the handle of the kitchen knife the prosecution believes is the murder weapon. This knife was found in Sollecito's house. She said Kerches's DNA was on the blade. Stefanoni said, however, that the DNA in these samples was not from blood."
There was blood of both women in the bathroom. Once again, that is not surprising. But there is on way to tell when that blood was placed there.
Tom Sawyer, your facts are false. Simply false.
Just one example!!!
From the link: "Stefanoni testified today that Knox's DNA was found on the handle of the kitchen knife the prosecution believes is the murder weapon. This knife was found in Sollecito's house. She said Kerches's DNA was on the blade. Stefanoni said, however, that the DNA in these samples was not from blood."
There was blood of both women in the bathroom. Once again, that is not surprising. But there is on way to tell when that blood was placed there.
Posted by: Rachel at April 06, 2013 11:25 AM (X20Gi)
595
Link here.http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7656872&page=1#.UWB07NIwKSo
Posted by: Rachel at April 06, 2013 11:26 AM (X20Gi)
596
there was mixed knox-victim blood/dna in 5 different spots, includng in the other roommate's room where the break-in was staged. Knox was clearly bleeding that day, you cannot deny this. it is a fact.
knox herself said there was no blood in the bathroom when she left and then came back. she also claimed to take a shower despite coming home to the door being open, blood in the bathroom, and meridith's door locked. you see nothing weird about that.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 11:30 AM (7zSvv)
597
oh, she also said she saw guede's feces in the other bathroom. she still decides to take a shower. this is all perfectly normal.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 11:31 AM (7zSvv)
598
Really. So there must have been a scar, or wound that the police would have been able to photograph.
It is illogical to convict a person based on DNA found in their place of residence. It is in fact nothing but ABSURD.
It is illogical to convict a person based on DNA found in their place of residence. It is in fact nothing but ABSURD.
Posted by: Rachel at April 06, 2013 11:33 AM (X20Gi)
599
knox told people in her email to 25 people in the states that she was in a state of panic about meridith. yet she did't try to break down her fimsey door, and when the cops arrived, she told the cops that meridith always kept her bedroom door locked, and the other roommate contradicted her on that. the other roommate was in a state of panic about this, knox and drug fiend had no interest in this door. the other roommate's boyfriend busted down the door, and knox and drug boy stayed at the far end and showed no interest in finding out what was in the bedroom.
how does somebody go from a state of panic about meridith's locked door according to her email to no interest at all when the cops and her other roommate arrive?
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 11:35 AM (7zSvv)
600
http://injusticeinperugia.blogspot.com/p/mixed-dna-not-mixed-blood.html
Posted by: Rachel at April 06, 2013 11:36 AM (X20Gi)
601
rachel, one of Knox's roommates testified that she had a cut of some sort under her chin. If you look at photos of knox that day, you can see what she's talking about. Knox tried to explain it was a hickey from drug boy but her roommate said it didn't look like a hickey. somebody else also saw this on her as well. it probably wasn't that noticeable if she kept her head straight or tilted a little down.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 11:37 AM (7zSvv)
602
injustice in perugia is the worst source of information for this case. they claim the prosecuter said this was a satanic ritual , and he never advanced that theory. that's a real big lie so why believe the rest of what they say?
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 11:38 AM (7zSvv)
603
Rachel,
So you believe the Ramsays were innocent?
Did you believe OJ was innocent as well?
Posted by: PeppermintPattysclitring at April 06, 2013 11:39 AM (HfA9V)
604
I don't have a clue what you are talking about. Can you provide that Email? How do you assume guilt on how a person responds to a locked door?
Posted by: Rachel at April 06, 2013 11:41 AM (X20Gi)
605
i think knox fingered her black boss b/c she knew that would satisfy a lot of people in italy where there does seem to be a lot of racism (drug boy's dad said some real racist stuff about this black boss in phone calls that were monitored by the police).
she also immplied the police wanted her to accuse that guy b/c he was black.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 11:43 AM (7zSvv)
606
rachel, meridith's blood was found on the knife blade, a perfect match.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 11:44 AM (7zSvv)
607
rachel,
if you say you know more than me about this case, you should have read the email.
i love how she states in the email that the cops asked her if meridith had anal sex. why would you tell people that detail? seems real disrespectful to the dead girl.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 11:46 AM (7zSvv)
608
most of the media is pro-Knox and they appear to repeat Knox's parents inaccurate statements verbaitim. you rarely see the prosecution's case presented at all and what they do say is inaccurate.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 11:51 AM (7zSvv)
609
Actually I think they said it that both of the girl's DNA was found on the knife. NO BLOOD.
Posted by: Rachel at April 06, 2013 11:51 AM (X20Gi)
610
rachel,
why are you so emotionally invested in Knox's innocence?
why dont you think neither she and drug boy can even seem to remember what they were doing that night and where they were and present evidence of some sort they were there? I always know where I am and its hard to imagine there be nothing that supports me being at the place htat i claim to be.
drug boy originally claimed they were at a friend's party. when he thought about that some more, he claimed they were at home all night with hiim on his computer. the cops learned that he did not use his computer from like 8.30 to 5 am.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 11:56 AM (7zSvv)
611
I am not emotionally involved other than I loathe the idea of an innocent person being imprisoned.
That is all.
That is all.
Posted by: Rachel at April 06, 2013 12:00 PM (X20Gi)
612
this case is similar to the OJ Simpson case in that the defense is asserting that the DNA evidence was contiminated by shoddy police work or nefarious police work.
Another data point that I forgot about is Knox told her parents she was real worried about the knife found at drug boy's house. if it wasn' the murder weapon and she didn't commit the murder or particpate, why would she be worried about the knife prior to the DNA testing?
Also, drug boy told the cops that Meridith had been at his house cooking with them and he accidentally stabbed her with the knife, to explain how her blood got on the blade. If i am not mistaken, the cops never told him they found anything on the knife, he got out in front of this.
There was no evidence meridith never went to drug boy's house at all...drug boy and knox had only dated for 5 days or so, and knox and meridith did not hang out socially.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 12:01 PM (7zSvv)
613
You are delusional.
What knife was her blood found on? Once again, the knife the prosecution says was the murder weapon had her DNA on it. NOT BLOOD.
What knife was her blood found on? Once again, the knife the prosecution says was the murder weapon had her DNA on it. NOT BLOOD.
Posted by: Rachel at April 06, 2013 12:05 PM (X20Gi)
614
Rachel,
you are being played for a fool here.
this is how it went down more or less.
Meridith was a lot smarter and had more friends than Knox. Meridith was even in some kid of music video so she may have been a little conceited.
Knox was known to be jealous of Meridith. Knox's boss, who Knox accused of murder, was going to hire Meridith at the bar, and the boss said Knox did not like that, some kind of queen bee thing.
Knox kept a vibrator out in the open in the bathroom (who does this?) and she was brining over strange men to the cottage, strange men using Meridith's shared bathroom. this annoyed Meridith, and girls are notorious for their little fights and she no doubt implied ouer heroine Knox was a slut. Knox didn't like.
Knox's boyfriend was busted for looking at some real deviant porn at his school , animal sex porn and some other weird porn. Knox was telling him about her "prudish" roommate who was always slut shaming her, and drug boy proposes they "teach her a lesson" by arranging for her to be raped by the black guy. they don't think anybody is going to associate them with the black guy (and they have been right about this, the hellman judge said no way they could anything to do with the black guy b/c they were good white people) According to the drug guys who lived in the downstairs unit, the black guy who played basketball with them and smoked weed had a boner for Knox. Wanted to go out with her. So Knox knew this and probably played on his attraction to her to lure him to the apartment to rape Meridith. Knox and drug boy probably thought Meridith would jsut submit to the rape b/c that's how it goes in porn movies, but Meridith wasn't having any of that and she fought and then she screamed out (the scream was heeard by two women nearby). they paniced and drug boy knifed her once with his knife he always carried with her, and then Knox shoved in the one found in the kitchen. they locked her in her bedroom and took her cellphones so she couldn't try to call anybody, and then let her die from her wounds, as she suffocatied on her own blood getting into her lungs.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 12:12 PM (7zSvv)
615
Rachel,
The Boulder Grand Jury voted to indict the Ramsays.
They did this based on some compelling evidence.
However, the DA office declined to prosecute, possible violation of CO law. They knew it was a tough case against a family that could afford the best legal counsel money could buy.
How did an intruder know the exact amount of Mr Ramsay's bonus in that very weird "ransom" letter?
What happened to the missing bedding of Jon B? Material evidence missing from the living quarters? The maid testified that the bedding was not the bedding that the maid last used and that Patsy NEVER made the childrens beds. this represents a clear change to her pattern...
That broken window had an extant interior cobweb that morning of Dec 26. How did intruder not break it upon entering? Also, the glass shards were still on sill, how come there were no blood from cuts as intruder entered window frame?
There is much, much more but we can start with these questions first Rachel...
Posted by: PeppermintPattysclitring at April 06, 2013 12:16 PM (HfA9V)
616
She may be a sex-crazed fiend but that does not a murderess make.
You are convinced she is guilty based on hearsay, her sexual past and not much more.
Why are you so emotionally invested in her guilt?
You are convinced she is guilty based on hearsay, her sexual past and not much more.
Why are you so emotionally invested in her guilt?
Posted by: Rachel at April 06, 2013 12:18 PM (X20Gi)
617
i'd rather not argue over the forensic evidence. it is what it is and you only been reading the websites who seek to deny its existence or minimize it.
i don't think you need the forensic evidence in this case. it's the cherry on top. there's too many "first time" events in this case on the night of the murder, likt the two turning off their cell phones in unison and turning them back on in unison the next morning, and knox callig her mom the middle of the night in seattle prior to the body being discovered in a state of panic about something.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 12:21 PM (7zSvv)
618
there was a case in America where a roommate set up her roommate to be raped and then she was killed. same thing that happened in Knox case.
people just don't want to believe some young pretty college girl is a cold ruthless killer. i understand that but if you are not open to guilt of the suspect, you are too close minded to discuss this case.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 12:22 PM (7zSvv)
619
I think he said he didn't have the evidence? That would be a reason not to indite. No there weren't cobwebs there that would have been broken when the intruder entered. As for the maid, I have never heard that story or that bedding was missing.
And cuts? How about it was cold and maybe the intruder's clothes were cut? Glass doesn't just cut flesh. As for the ransom note, I don't know. Someone who worked at the bank, or his place of employment must have told someone else-somehow the intruder knew about it.
How do you explain the foreign DNA?
And cuts? How about it was cold and maybe the intruder's clothes were cut? Glass doesn't just cut flesh. As for the ransom note, I don't know. Someone who worked at the bank, or his place of employment must have told someone else-somehow the intruder knew about it.
How do you explain the foreign DNA?
Posted by: Rachel at April 06, 2013 12:26 PM (X20Gi)
620
i see Knox fans arguing that b/c she was a slut or sex addict and did drugs, that makes her innocent.
that is sophistry at its best, no?
this murder had to do with sex and drugs. what does knox like most in this world? drugs and sex. this doesn't prove she did it, it just sets the table to believe she could have done it. that is the wall i seem to have trouble breaking down with knox supporters.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 12:26 PM (7zSvv)
621
Well Tom I guess I just find it easier to believe that the guy who had a history of breaking and entering and whose DNA showed up a the crime scene did it.
Posted by: Rachel at April 06, 2013 12:28 PM (X20Gi)
622
Tom, you sound just like that crazed prosecutor. Really you do.
Posted by: Rachel at April 06, 2013 12:32 PM (X20Gi)
623
well his history of breaking and entering has been overstated by the knox supporters. i think he was foundin a school or something but it appeared someody may have told him he could stay there overnight. i've seen pro-knox sites say he was caught 5 or 6 times doing this but i don't think that is true.
there was no evidence on the outside of the house of an intruder. the grass was wet that night yet it remained undistributed. there were no scuff marks on the wall, and a nail wasn't bent that an intruder would have stepped on climbing up. the high window isn't easy to get to and there is a much better option for a break in point on the other side of the house that also wasnt visible from the main road like the high window.
also, how does guede know how many people are at the apartment that knife? If all of the flat mates are there, he's going to have a hard time raping meridith. it would seem like meridith would have heard the window shatter by the rock and come to the windown and seen him climbing up.
guede was friends with the guys who lived in the downstairs unit, so it seems unlikely he would want to break in to the unit upstairs b/c he is much more likely to be recognized.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 12:34 PM (7zSvv)
624
rachel,
i am the bat man. justice will prevail.
i think it some ways the weirdness of the crime is the only thing giving knox and drug boy a small change of getting away with it.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 12:36 PM (7zSvv)
625
there wasn't a lot of DNA found of the black guy. knox supporters always say this but even his dna was limited. there was none in the room where he ostensibly broke in. none of his fingerprints were found in the house, or anybody elses, which seems to indicate a cleanup.
i think a lot of people overfocus on the dna evidence and they get tunnel vision and thus do not look at all the evidence.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 12:43 PM (7zSvv)
626
Rachel,
The fact Boulder didnt indict does NOT mean they didnt have evidence, only that the evidence they had, the police snafu, plus the high powered law team they would likely face added up together meant it was not a slam dunk. If the Ramsays were poor or middle class, that was going to trial sweets! There were Boulder prosecutors that did not agree with this and wanted to indict, it was a close and contentous decision not to indict.
I find it highly suspicous that both parents lawyered up immediately, with separate lawyers!, and hired a PR firm. Does this sound like the actions of innocent parents whose child was freshly murdered???
The prosecutor's lead investigator did note this cobweb! Do your research. Same comment on bedding...
I will grant you that cold weather would mean that the nonexistent intruder would not cut themself however this does not explain the undisturbed nature of the shards on the sill, another point noted by the investigator.
The foreign DNA is interesting, the Ramsays showed a good understanding of DNA evidence as shown by how they committed the crime and "discovered" the body. Is it possible they used DNA from some third party object and swabbed Jons clothing in order to transmit a red herring clue? Or it could mean nothing, I dont know.
Posted by: PeppermintPattysclitring at April 06, 2013 02:28 PM (HfA9V)
627
how many years ago was the ramsey case? seems like that has been awhile, can't believe people can remember the details .
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 03:24 PM (7zSvv)
628
for anybody interested, here is the translated Galati appeal to the Supreme Court of Italy, which slices and dices the Hellman appeals court logic in their verdict.
http://perugiamurderfile.net/viewtopic.php?style=1&f=5&t=409
it's the pdf at the top of the screen.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 06, 2013 05:18 PM (7zSvv)
629
No one has mentioned how good the pasta is in Italy. Not once.
Posted by: Banjo at April 06, 2013 07:51 PM (dUkPc)
630
I did some research into this Monster of Florence story and was able to find this post on truejustice.org about it, and how Preston conflated the prosecuter on the Knox case with another guy (a writer who worked on the MOF case back in the day when it was hot):
Mr. Mignini is a prosecutor in Perugia, in the region of Umbria. As the nickname indicates, the “Monster of Florence” killings were carried out around Florence, in the region of Tuscany with the same .22 Beretta pistol between 1968 and 1985 (it is debatable whether the first crime of 1968 was done by the same perpetrator of the following string of murders, but they are clearly decades old crimes).
Various Florentine prosecutors participated in the investigations and trials related to the murders done by the Monster of Florence. Mr. Mignini was never “in charge” nor even involved in those investigations. It was a different time and different place.
The last of the police investigators in this Florentine case (so important and complex that instead of having a prosecutor control the case, there was a sort of super-cop who oversaw and directed all investigations, requesting prosecutors to authorize certain investigative actions) was called Michele Giuttari. It was under his analysis and investigation that the theory relating the Monster of Florence killings to occultism was developed.
[Above: The Monster of FlorenceÂ’s Beretta pistol killed 8 couples between 1968 and 1985. Mr. Mignini was uninvolved in the main investigations and trials of these decades old crimes, as he lives and works in Perugia, in a different location and in a different time frame. (Photo credit: Insufficienzadiprove)]
In a separate action, years later in 2001, Mignini reopened the investigation into the death of Dr. Francesco Narducci, initially thought to have drowned in a lake near Perugia. There were potential links between NarducciÂ’s death and the perpetrators of the Florence murders.
Actually, if you want to understand better the Narducci case (from it being reopened in 2001) and understand its relation to the Monster of Florence case, please read the Perugian bloggerÂ’s summary on his blogspot page.
This mixing up of the facts of the Monster of Florence case is not new. I fear that American author Douglas Preston – who has substantial financial interest in the book sales and movie royalties related to his book The Monster of Florence (and who is also a financial supporter of CPJ ) - may have had direct or indirect input into the sculpting of this imprecise CPJ missive, which doesn’t really link Mignini to any of the events the Perugian blogger in question is supposed to have suffered (this is just an opinion).
Why? Preston is exploiting his own run-in with Mignini years ago, when the latter interviewed him concerning his activities and knowledge relating to shared elements and suspects of the Narducci and Monster of Florence cases.
For authors Mario Spezi and Douglas Preston researching the Monster of Florence case in Florence, super-cop Michele Giuttari was the source of much of their criticism of the case. In spite of being shaken up in early 2006 due to his interview with Mignini, Preston said a few months later in an interview with The Altantic:
Question: “Do you think that the investigation has become personal for (police investigator Michele) Giuttari?”
Preston: “I think even more than for Mario and me …. Giuttari really doesn’t have anything beyond the Monster case. His entire career rides on this case and solving it—or at least not making a fool of himself while he investigates …. So yes, it is personal. I think that everyone in Italy acknowledges that Giuttari seems to carry a great personal animosity against Spezi.”
Question: “Judge Giuliano Mignini, the public prosecutor who interrogated you, is another important player in the case. Was Mignini just doing his job? How much weight do you give to the idea that Mignini had it in for Spezi and you?”
Preston: “…. As for Mignini himself, I think he’s a sincere man and an honest and incorruptible judge. I don’t think that he’s a bad man …. I think he was doing his job the best he could. I think in many ways he was badly misled by Giuttari, the police officer who was running the investigation.”
(Source: The Atlantic)
Now thereÂ’s something I donÂ’t understand. All the bad things weÂ’re hearing about Giuliano Mignini since late 2007, in particular from Doug Preston seem to have been cut and pasted from PrestonÂ’s comments about Michele Giuttari, the chief investigator in the last legs of the Monster of Florence investigation, and these bad characteristics have been assigned to Mignini.
Preston has simply “cut” (not pasted!) the name Michele Giuttari from any mention – the once bad-ass investigator of the Monster of Florence as a larger-than-life persona is gone from his recent writings on the case.
And Mignini has been reassigned Giuttari’s nefarious role, even though Mignini is from Perugia and he investigated the Narducci death. The link (albeit important link) to the Monster of Florence, is that since Narducci could have been associated – according to initial investigative data in 2001 – with persons related to Giuttari’s old Monster of Florence theory, therefore Mignini assumed the Monster of Florence occultism theory developed in the Florence investigations.
PrestonÂ’s switch-a-roo has happened even though Preston had good words for Mignini in 2006 after his questioning at the hands of this prosecutor.
What happened? Well my opinion is that with literally dozens of books out about the Monster of Florence, someone realized that yet another book by Preston and Spezi would need some commercial umpah, especially if it was to be taken to the English-speaking market (Spezi had already written one book on the case, now he was writing another – Giuttarri had also written books on the case, in addition to many other authors).
The terrible murder of Meredith Kercher, and the fact that Giuliano Mignini was on duty as prosecutor on that All Saints long-weekend was what was needed. The English-speaking press has covered the murder on an on-going basis since then. Amanda Knox’s family hired a PR firm which uses that PR contract as a case study on their website, explaining proudly how “Gogerty Marriott’s work for the (Knox-Mellas) family has brought them in touch with all major U.S. news networks – ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and Fox News, as well as independent programs such as Oprah Winfrey and a host of national and international magazines and newspapers”. (Source: Gogerty Marriott website.)
My theory is that with Amanda Knox being arrested and tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher, the latest book on The Monster of Florence had found a great, long-term PR strategy to latch on to. All that was required was to change the hated satanic-obsessed, rogue investigator figure of Giuttari into the civil servant Mignini, a prosecutor in the sleepy town of Perugia who has never published a book in his life. This focus requires that one stops talking about Giuttari. Done. And that one talks a lot about Mignini and his satanic theories, Perugian Mignini the lead prosecutor of the Monster of Florence (well, if you say it loud enough and long enough and put it into a Hollywood film, thatÂ’s what people will remember). Done.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 07, 2013 02:13 PM (7zSvv)
631
here is another post on truejustice.org that talks about Guittari, the originater of the MOF occult theory:
Michele Giuttari started his police career in the 1970s’ as a mobile squad detective in Calabria; after 15 years of “Calabrian “ experience he was appointed to the Anti-Mafia Division of Naples, and subsequently became the head of the Mobile Squad in Florence. During his Florentine service time, following investigation guidelines under the direction of prosecutor Piero Luigi Vigna, he produced a solution to the ‘Monster of Florence’ case, but also brought the investigation to an unexpected turning point.
As Vigna deduced, the MoF was not really one serial killer, but rather the manifestation of the killing activity carried on by a small group of people, at least three. In fact three people were found guilty for taking part to the murders; but both prosecutor and judges were not entirely satisfied: because there was evidence – so the court concluded – that someone else was involved too, who remained unknown.
The investigation into the death of Dr Francesco Narducci was opened in Perugia in 2005 as a routine cold case, because of Narducci’s wife’s and relatives’ doubts about the “official” version of his “accidental” death in Lake Trasimeno.
Points of contact between Narducci and the MoF emerged independently from two directions, from the Perugia investigation, and from GiuttariÂ’s findings from the previous Florence investigation.
Crossed analysis with the data bank collected by Michele Giuttari showed that several people were common witnesses both in the Narducci and the MoF case, while many things in the Narducci case were not adding up (for example, the unburied body was found to have died by strangulation, not by drowning, his trachea and hyoid bone were crushed).
Something even more unexpected was that the investigation into the Narducci case revealed - and partly itself triggered - a network or other collateral crimes. A number of people were caught engaged in criminal activities with the purpose of plotting cover-ups and obstruction of justice on this cold case. Among them were law enforcement officers and lawyers.
But most surprising and peculiar, there was a fierce reaction from some magistrates among the Florence judiciary, in an attempt to stop the Perugia investigation.
The first wild accusations launched by a Florentine prosecutor against Perugia offices were proven false, so the most serious charges were dropped by a preliminary judge as obviously unfounded.
But a second wave of legal action followed, alleging that Giuttari and MigniniÂ’s wiretapping recordings were false; this accusation was also proven false in a trial, as expert technicians demonstrated the authenticity of all material.
But after ignoring the objection about territorial competence the judge managed to let one accusation stand – that of abuse of office, a charge less serious than the previous ones, which was not formulated on points of facts but only on points of law – at the first degree trial.
After some years, this charge was canceled, as the courts finally declared the whole investigation illegitimate, and they nullified both the first degree trial, and the investigation and indictment itself.
A last attempt by the Florentine prosecution to further delay closure was ended by the recent, final Supreme Court verdict. Meanwhile, a couple of Florentine magistrates were successful in stopping the investigation into the Narducci case, for a total of seven years.
Unfortunately these happenings are not entirely new to the Italian judiciary. This one resembles other happenings – possibly more serious – that affected the system in recent Italian history (the most famous examples are the Elisa Claps, or the plots known as “Toghe Lucane” targeting known magistrates such as Luigi De Magistris and Henry John Woodcock).
The system shows symptoms of stress from the whole extreme political instability of the country, but so far it still manages to fiercely resist those drifts.
Michele Giuttari is also an author. Albeit he is not the top crime fiction novelist for sales in Italy (the Italian market has top-class masters in the genre), yet he is the top-selling Italian crime writer in the English speaking world. Curiously, the best-seller among all his titles published in Italy – the non-fiction book about the history of the true MoF investigation – is the only one in his books which has so far been rejected by American publishing houses.
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 07, 2013 02:25 PM (7zSvv)
632
18Â’41Â’Â’ CNN: In your opinion, do you believe that Narducci was involved in the Monster of Florence murders?
18Â’50Â’Â’ Mignini: This matter was the subject of a criminal proceeding, proceeding number 1845 0821, which was dismissed, for those were investigated, due to lack of evidence [formula dubitativa] in the case of the murder and due to the statute of limitations for the other crimes. This means that the crimes had been committed, they had been attributed to certain people but too much time had gone by and the offences had become statute-barred. In this proceeding, the GIP fully sustained the ProsecutorÂ’s (that was me) request, which was: the three fundamental points were that Narducci had been murdered because the autopsy that was performed demonstrated that there was a fracture of the left superior cornu of the thyroid cartilage which cannot be caused by accidental impacts but it can only be caused by a restricted, localized and increasing pressure because it is [in] a protected location and the medical examiner determined the cause of death to be strangulation; the GIP acknowledged that the body pulled out of the water, which had been officially established as being that of Narducci, was not Narducci after all; and that Narducci was involved, the GIP said, in the case of the double homicide murders of the couples. This order was appealed by NarducciÂ’s relatives, not by his wife but by his relatives. However the Supreme Court of Cassation rejected the appeal as inadmissible. Therefore, the matter is now closed at this point.
20Â’48Â’Â’ CNN: Yes, but the question is if you thinkÂ…
20Â’50Â’Â’ Mignini: It is what I maintained. I maintained it and the GIP acknowledged it. He accepted these aspects. Then, regarding the whole matter, since there is another pending proceeding, it will not add anything more. I will only say that this aspect was the subject of a proceeding in which I maintained these things and the GIP acknowledged them. He accepted the whole accusatorial framework [impianto accusatorio].
21Â’55Â’Â’ CNN: The body in the lake was not NarducciÂ’s?
22Â’00Â’Â’ Mignini: let me explain. The coroner who performed the autopsy is Prof. Giovanni Pierucci of the University of Pavia, head of the Forensic Medicine department at the University of Pavia, and other consultants, among them Brigadier General Luciano Garofano, who determined, from different points of view, the following things: the corpse that was pulled out of the lake on October 13, 1985, was that of a person who was almost bald, size 60, which means that it was in a state of bloating decomposition, was wearing specific clothing and was in such a state that the coroner, before he opened the coffin, thought he would be in the presence of a corpse that could no longer be effectively examined. Conversely, once he opened the coffin, he found NarducciÂ’s body, with thick hair and it was wearing size 48/small belted pants. Around the waist the body was in excellent cadaver condition. In particular, the encephalon did not contain any diatoms which would have been present in a drowning case.
Therefore, the consultant who performed the autopsy stated that this situation, the dimensions of the corpse, the different clothing and the different state of cadaver preservation, indicated that the correspondence between the corpse that had been at the time recovered from the lake, as described by witnesses, and NarducciÂ’s body was at best uncertain. To further ascertain whether or not the body recovered from the lake was NarducciÂ’s, an anthropometric examination was conducted by a Pavia Forensic Medicine assistant, Dr. Cristina Carlesi, and then by the Parma RIS Commander, General Garofano, at that time a colonel. [The examination] confirmed that the corpse [recovered from the lake] had dimensional characteristics that made it incompatible with NarducciÂ’s body examined [rinvenuto] during the autopsy. These aspects have been subject to multiple tests.
25Â’39Â’Â’ CNN: Dr. Mignini, do you like a good conspiracy theory?
25Â’42Â’Â’ Mignini: AHA! Here comes the conspiracyÂ… Listen, there is no conspiracy here, I do not know what that means. A size 60 person does not fit in a pair of size 48/small pants. There is no conspiracy here!
26’08’’ Mignini: There is not a conspiracy. This is reality. Fairy tales are another matter but this is reality. The reality is that one must examine the reality. Unfortunately, the reality is that when I started these investigations, which are different from the ones we discussed now, I did not have, I said: “let’s see what there is”. And the medical examiner told me these things. A corpse that has been under water for five days and that is in an advanced state of decomposition is in the emphysematous phase when it surfaces again which means that there is also abdominal bloating and a pair of size 48 pants cannot fit. And this one had hair, the other one did not. The point is that [missing words] if one drowns, you have diatoms but this one did not have any. And then there is the matter of the hyoid bone fracture… This is not a conspiracy. I do not know what you mean by conspiracy.
27Â’16Â’Â’ CNN: Or rather a very imaginative reconstruction, one says, sorry, let me be clearer: in English one uses a lot [missing words]
27Â’31Â’Â’ Mignini: Look, there would have been a conspiracy if I had led with this idea. But I did not start off with this idea. I took note of, I always say this, take note of what is reality, of what can be touched, of what can be seen. That is, I cannot make up reality. If reality tells me that that person is wearing a pair of size 48 pants and it is preserved in perfect condition, eh! Forensics tell us that there is something that does not make sense.
( Second half? - times have reset )
0’11” Mignini: Pardon, if I might add, it’s the exact opposite of what he said. It is exactly because I take notice of the outcomes, I don’t have a predetermined idea. And so I take notice of what is there. And so if they say, ‘Look, that can’t be so’, his wife tells me, ‘he was wearing other clothes when I saw him leave for the last time. I’ve never seen these clothes before that I can see here in the photo of the recovered body’. Ah, so there is no conspiracy, it’s reality and it needs to be taken note of.
1’03” CNN: You’ve never said that Meredith’s death was a satanic rite?
1’08” Mignini: I have never said that. I have never understood who has and continues to say that. I read, there was a reporter, – I don’t know his name, I mention it because I noticed it, – who continues to repeat this claim that, perhaps, knowing full well that it’s not like that. I have never said that there might have been a satanic rite. I’ve never said it, so I would like to know who made it up. This is a conspiracy, a fantasy, to my detriment though, to my detriment. Simply a sexual act. And maybe I have always said, I maintained this in the first-instance trial, there was a relationship which deteriorated between the two girls. I’ve always maintained that. I’ll tell you this because…
Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 07, 2013 03:41 PM (7zSvv)
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Posted by: wheatie at April 05, 2013 03:12 PM (5kUwW)