Ace of Spades HQ

May 02, 2013

Book Recommendation: The Monster of Florence
— Ace

I'm halfway through this great true-crime book, which I finally began reading after having had it recommended to me a half-dozen times.

It's really great. The murders themselves -- which took place between 1974 (or maybe 1968, sort of) and 1985 -- are actually the least interesting part of the book. Despite those murders being particularly depraved-- the Monster of Florence is Italy's own Jack the Ripper. His MO is to ambush couples having sex in lovers lane, shoot both of them in the head with a .22, then drag the female body out into a clearing and sexually dismember her.

That's the least interesting part. I don't find psychopaths interesting. They're all the same impotent, inadequate, failed dullard, doing the same goddamn things to compensate for their sexual problems.

But more interesting is... well, everything. For one thing, the book's a solid travelogue about Florence and its environs. The history of the city is briefly digested, from its role in basically giving birth to the Renaissance to also giving birth to a violent backlash against the Renaissance.

And then there's the weird subcultures. Here's an example: When I first started reading I wondered, "How the heck can he find so many people (he killed 14, seven different couples) having sex in cars?" Well, there's an answer to that. In Florence, children -- adult children, I mean -- continue living with their parents until they're married. And they marry late. So there is a long period, say from age 17 to 27, when adults have no place of their own, and no sexual privacy, but are still, as you'd imagine, having sex. So it's a widespread tradition that dates -- even among engaged persons -- will end parking on country roads and having sex.

Now, because of this custom of illicit activity in the country, another custom has become widespread: The "Indiana," "Indians" they're called in Italian, who creep quietly around in the night to... watch all the young people having sex in cars. These "Indiana" actually know each other and have dinner before their nightly outings, to talk about any sightings of "good cars" (cars where the more attractive women are having the more athletic sex) and share information about the best places to peep.

And finally, this illicit activity leads to a third one: There are also a group of people who follow the Indiana, in order to rob them of money and cameras, and also to take pictures of them, in order to blackmail them for cash. (Give me money, or I send this picture of you peeping to your wife or mother or the local police chief.)

And this is all going on in the quiet hills surrounding Florence, a city with the reputation of being a sleepy, boring backwater with a glorious past but noting going on in the present -- more or less a Museum City where nothing happens anymore.

So it's in this strange sexual ecosystem that the Monster pads around, murdering people.

And it just gets more and more interesting. Italy's a lovely place, but take this advice: Never be accused of committing a serious crime there. I'm not saying don't commit a serious crime; chances are, you'd get away with it. I'm saying don't be accused of committing a serious crime, especially if you're innocent, because that's when the Italian justice system seems to go into Berserker Mode to convict you. The clownshow of Italian justice is jaw-slackening stuff.

Add into that the medieval -- if that -- banditry of the Sardinian mountain clans and a local populace absolutely terrified of an audacious murderer that simply cannot be found, and the panics and paranoias that grip the area and DAs and head detectives who rely on the theories of shrieky, conspiratorial bloggers, pushing bizarre theories about aristocrats and doctors in Satanic Cults trading in female sexual organs (because the most psychic energy is contained in sexual organs from people killed at the point of orgasm, you know.... didn't you know that? I thought everyone knew that).

I'm only halfway through and I haven't even gotten to the good stuff yet. (The authors may or may not be threatened to be jailed unless they leave Italy and/or actually thrown in jail for daring to report on this insanity... by the DA pushing the Satanic Sex Cult Genital Trafficking theory of the case.)

Really a great book. I know that Preston and Spezi propose a suspect at the end, and I'm prepared to call bullshit on it (if he's guilty, why isn't he in jail?-- surely the Italians wouldn't mind convicting a guilty person every now and again), but I don't even care that the case is unsolved so I won't have any actual resolution about the mystery. The story itself is enough, even without an ending.

If You Don't Want To Buy The Book... Douglas Preston, the author here, wrote up an article about the crimes for The Atlantic.

I'd still recommend the book, wholeheartedly, but if you want to get a gist of it all then you can read this article for free. I sort of don't want to read the article because, spoilers.

That tip via @jmaniii56.

Posted by: Ace at 09:48 AM | Comments (281)
Post contains 879 words, total size 5 kb.

1 "because the most psychic energy is contained in sexual organs from people killed at the point of orgasm, you know" Ace needs to return some videotapes.

Posted by: wooga at May 02, 2013 09:50 AM (4+MIZ)

2
Is it Sunday, already?

Posted by: soothsayer at May 02, 2013 09:50 AM (KwX0v)

3 Books? Anarchists?
Books? Anarchists?
Books? Anarchists?

go down a post and talk about anarchists

Posted by: Tuco at May 02, 2013 09:51 AM (Pr6hk)

4 David Berkowitz approved?

Posted by: huerfano at May 02, 2013 09:52 AM (bAGA/)

5 having the more athletic sex In a car....

Posted by: tasker at May 02, 2013 09:52 AM (r2PLg)

6 Yikes. My husband and I vacationed in the Florence area years ago, and ummm...*cough* never mind.

Wish I'd known about these pervs beforehand. *cough*

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 02, 2013 09:52 AM (lVPtV)

7 I have never lived in Florence. Just saying.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at May 02, 2013 09:53 AM (oY6Yp)

8 Hey Jane - 8 inches of snow so far today. More on the way. I am looking longingly at pictures of The Landings right now.

Posted by: Muad'dib at May 02, 2013 09:54 AM (KjlbF)

9 Isn't Ace from Indiana?

Posted by: John Smith from Iowa at May 02, 2013 09:54 AM (i7B17)

10 I always wanted to go to Italy. Perhaps a good choice for a bit of mayhem.

Posted by: madamemayhem at May 02, 2013 09:55 AM (S2RnE)

Florence is a very interesting city. It's got elements from Rome's pagan past all the way up through the Renaissance. You have all this pagan statuary coexisting alongside statues and friezes of early Christendom. Amazing that it survived.

The camel-jockeys would have razed it all to the ground.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 02, 2013 09:55 AM (CJjw5)

12 The DA pushing the Satanic Sex Cult Genital Trafficking theory was also involved in the Amanda Knox case.

Posted by: not neo just conservative at May 02, 2013 09:55 AM (MNXL5)

13 I love pretty much anything Douglas Preston or Lincoln Child write, either separately or together. I can't read them when I'm home alone, however.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 02, 2013 09:56 AM (lVPtV)

14 I don't get this. 12 year olds are too young to drive.

Posted by: Harry Reid at May 02, 2013 09:56 AM (4+MIZ)

15 "That's the least interesting part. I don't find psychopaths interesting. They're all the same impotent, inadequate, failed dullard, doing the same goddamn things to compensate for their sexual problems." Moron. Those broken people are the most interesting. They are the outliers of so called "normal" society. Beneath the surface we all face the Monsters on Maple street. Knowing how those broken souls think and act allows for a much deeper insight into our friends and neighbors who limit themselves with the tissue paper constraints of society. Read some fucking Steinbeck and understand just how close the Psychopath is in any society. Scratch a good Christian and find the Ted Bundy beneath.

Posted by: Bob Dole at May 02, 2013 09:56 AM (G6kli)

16 Now, because of this custom of illicit activity in the country, another custom has become widespread: The "Indiana," "Indians" they're called in Italian, who creep quietly around in the night to... watch all the young people having sex in cars. These "Indiana" actually know each other and have dinner before their nightly outings, to talk about any sightings of "good cars" (cars where the more attractive women are having the more athletic sex) and share information about the best places to peep.

AKA morons.

Posted by: EC at May 02, 2013 09:56 AM (GQ8sn)

17 And finally, this illicit activity leads to a third one: There are also a group of people who follow the Indiana, in order to rob them of money and cameras, and also to take pictures of them, in order to blackmail them for cash. (Give me money, or I send this picture of you peeping to your wife or mother or the local police chief.) Fourth group: Those of us that would go around clubbing the third group & take their ill gotten financial gains. What are they going to do? Whine to the cops that they were mugged of their blackmail money?

Posted by: rickb223 at May 02, 2013 09:57 AM (GFM2b)

18 Just bought it and even remembered to go through the AoSHQ Amazon box, which I have to remember to remove ad block to even see. They're predicting snow for us tonight, but I doubt we see any.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at May 02, 2013 09:57 AM (PkYpQ)

19 You need to get laid, Ace.

Posted by: Soona at May 02, 2013 09:57 AM (fivn3)

20 So it's a widespread tradition that dates -- even among engaged persons -- will end parking on country roads and having sex.

Europe's so much more sophisticated than flyover country. O_o

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at May 02, 2013 09:57 AM (/kI1Q)

21 >>>Moron. Those broken people are the most interesting. They are the outliers of so called "normal" society. Beneath the surface we all face the Monsters on Maple street. Knowing how those broken souls think and act allows for a much deeper insight into our friends and neighbors who limit themselves with the tissue paper constraints of society. Read some fucking Steinbeck and understand just how close the Psychopath is in any society. Scratch a good Christian and find the Ted Bundy beneath. Gee, I wonder who our pro-serial-killer knucklehead might be.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 09:57 AM (LCRYB)

22 Muad'dib, it's actually been very windy and chilly here. Damned global warming.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 02, 2013 09:57 AM (lVPtV)

23 You need to get laid, Ace.

Who doesn't?

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at May 02, 2013 09:58 AM (jKWYf)

24 ergie, pro-volcano, pro-serial-killer.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 09:58 AM (LCRYB)

25 having the more athletic sex In a car.... ...down by the river...

Posted by: rickb223 at May 02, 2013 09:58 AM (GFM2b)

The DA pushing the Satanic Sex Cult Genital Trafficking theory was also involved in the Amanda Knox case.

---------------------

Yeah, he's one weird piece of shit. He already convicted a man of killing Knox' roommate. And now, apparently, he wishes to convict Knox for killing the same girl a second time, under a separate set of circumstances, somehow involving a vibrator, instead of the burglary/rape/murder that their downstairs neighbor already committed.

There's a reason the dagos couldn't even subjugate the fucking Ethiopians. And it isn't because the Ethiopians were super-competent.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 02, 2013 09:59 AM (CJjw5)

27 My wife keeps wanting to take me to Italy. I keep telling her that the problem with Italy, is its crawling with Italians. They are everywhere.

Posted by: AndrewsDad at May 02, 2013 09:59 AM (C2//T)

28 No offense but I'll wait till you finish the book. Last time I bought a book on your initial recommendation only to have it arrive from amazon and you post that you stopped reading it and it was a meh. I was so crestfallen I drank a couple of bottles of val-u-rite, passed out and was ass raped by hobos at the train station. damn.. good times, eh?

Posted by: Yip at May 02, 2013 09:59 AM (/jHWN)

29 Shorter erg: "Derp derp derp knuckleheads!!! derp derp."

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 02, 2013 09:59 AM (lVPtV)

...down by the river...

In under the wire!

Posted by: Zombie Chris Farley at May 02, 2013 10:00 AM (i7B17)

Dammit! I keep looking at hash tags and reading them as if they spell something. I.E. Ace hash (LCRYB) is read as (French accent here) L'Crib.

My hash however is pronounced Stu Arnie. How do they know my real name?

Posted by: madamemayhem at May 02, 2013 10:00 AM (S2RnE)

32
Isn't it funny how in this sexual ecosystem, as Ace describes it, that entrepreneurship also finds a way to thrive.

hooray for Capitalism!

Posted by: soothsayer at May 02, 2013 10:00 AM (ZgBZU)

33 Ge, for all those years I thought "Fiat" stood for "Fix it again, Tony".

Who knew it really stood for "Fucking in Auto Tonight"???

Posted by: Tex Lovera at May 02, 2013 10:01 AM (wtvvX)

Book? WHAT A NERD!

Except for the Indiana information, I know what I'm doing tonight!

Posted by: ALittleEnglish at May 02, 2013 10:01 AM (VDsQI)

Damnit, Ace.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 02, 2013 10:01 AM (CJjw5)

36 hey I added a link to the author's magazine piece on the Monster of Florence, from The Atlantic. So that's a short, and free, precis.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 10:02 AM (LCRYB)

Posted by: Tex Lovera at May 02, 2013 10:02 AM (wtvvX)

38 ...down by the river...

Posted by: rickb223 at May 02, 2013 01:58 PM (GFM2b)

------------------------------------------

*singing* ....along with the lovers, fuckers, and thieves.

Posted by: Soona at May 02, 2013 10:02 AM (fivn3)

39 Well, I guess the italics fit the post.....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 02, 2013 10:02 AM (/WLC3)

40 Are the italics in honor of Italy?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 02, 2013 10:02 AM (8ZskC)

41 Does Ace ever go to the barrel?

Posted by: Muad'dib at May 02, 2013 10:02 AM (KjlbF)

42 WHAT THE HELL????

Italics for an Italian post???

Posted by: Tex Lovera at May 02, 2013 10:02 AM (wtvvX)

43 >>>No offense but I'll wait till you finish the book. Last time I bought a book on your initial recommendation only to have it arrive from amazon and you post that you stopped reading it and it was a meh. I was so crestfallen I drank a couple of bottles of val-u-rite, passed out and was ass raped by hobos at the train station. damn.. good times, eh? Hmm, which one was that?

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 10:03 AM (LCRYB)

44 good day for a review of an erotic novel based on Italians having sex in late model fiats. the Amanda Knox thing pretty much illustrates the mess that is the Italian justice system

Posted by: Vote Lord Humungus 2016 at May 02, 2013 10:03 AM (HEa5q)

45 Does Ace ever go to the barrel?

Nobody puts Acey in the barrel!

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at May 02, 2013 10:03 AM (/kI1Q)

46 Italics? Rayciss!

Posted by: Pug Mahon, next door to House Stark at May 02, 2013 10:03 AM (K+mtQ)

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 10:03 AM (LCRYB)

48 Brazil has the same demographic problem, they solved it with sex hotels.

Posted by: Jean at May 02, 2013 10:03 AM (QDOGk)

49 Who broke the blog?

Posted by: madamemayhem at May 02, 2013 10:03 AM (S2RnE)

50 The "Indiana,"
"Indians" they're called in Italian, who creep quietly around in the
night to... watch all the young people having sex in cars.

The Caribbean island of St. Maarten has this issue as well. Down there, they're called "bush whackers" because they like to creep around the bushes near the topless/nude beaches and rub one out. The Dutch side has a lot of crime, compared to the northern French side. It is not advisable for women to be out alone during the night or even by themselves at a secluded beach during the daytime.

Posted by: EC at May 02, 2013 10:03 AM (GQ8sn)

51 ace...

barrel!

Posted by: EC at May 02, 2013 10:04 AM (GQ8sn)

52 Hmm, which one was that?

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 02:03 PM (LCRYB)

It was called

T H E

I T A L I C S

O F

O U R

D I S C O N T E N T

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 02, 2013 10:04 AM (CJjw5)

53 Ay, I cutta you face-a.

Posted by: Mario at May 02, 2013 10:04 AM (i7B17)

54 I thought the review was well done, Ace. And so was I, after about an hour.

Posted by: Zombie Savonarola at May 02, 2013 10:04 AM (8ZskC)

55 uh oh...

Posted by: Tex Lovera at May 02, 2013 10:04 AM (wtvvX)

56 >>>The Caribbean island of St. Maarten has this issue as well. Down there, they're called "bush whackers".... I can figure out why, don't tell me. .... because they like to creep around the bushes near the topless/nude beaches and rub one out. I told you I could figure it out!

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 10:04 AM (LCRYB)

57 Well, at least the slant was to the right

Posted by: Tex Lovera at May 02, 2013 10:05 AM (wtvvX)

Q: How does a blonde turn on the lights after she has had sex?

A: She opens up the car door.

Posted by: polynikes at May 02, 2013 10:05 AM (m2CN7)

26
There's a reason the dagos couldn't even subjugate the fucking Ethiopians. And it isn't because the Ethiopians were super-competent.

...or the Albanians. How the French & Italians beat the Kaiser is a mystery to me.

Posted by: ALittleEnglish at May 02, 2013 10:05 AM (VDsQI)

The Caribbean island of St. Maarten has this issue as well. Down there, they're called "bush whackers" because they like to creep around the bushes near the topless/nude beaches and rub one out.

--------------------

Who doesn't? That breeze off the water feels good on your bozack.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 02, 2013 10:05 AM (CJjw5)

61 It is these examples that illuminate how fucking lucky we are in this country. Aside from the highly-publicized fuck-ups on the part of prosecutors, usually driven by politics, we do a reasonably good job at going after bad guys., at least compared to much of the world.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 02, 2013 10:05 AM (/WLC3)

62 You need to get laid, Ace. Who doesn't? Posted by: Guy Mohawk at May 02, 2013 01:58 PM (jKWYf) My daughters

Posted by: Dad's Everywhere at May 02, 2013 10:05 AM (9Bj8R)

Posted by: Zombie Savonarola at May 02, 2013 10:06 AM (8ZskC)

64 Looks like I'm having Italics for lunch today.

Posted by: Soona at May 02, 2013 10:06 AM (fivn3)

65 I heard about the sex in the car thing decades ago from my Italian teacher. As to the watching other people having sex in cars, aren't the brits really into that crap, too? In fact, I think they have a specific name for it. Dogging? Anyway, now that you have sent out a signal for every fucking weirdo from the last thread you did on "Perugia" to come and troll here, I hope you stick around.

Posted by: Waldo Truth at May 02, 2013 10:06 AM (sXWmd)

66 Chico is my favorite Marx Brother. I'll get the book, ace. Thanks for the recommendation. Wish I could afford to get it through your amazon store, but right now gonna have to get it for free at the library.

Posted by: Eaton Cox at May 02, 2013 10:06 AM (q177U)

67 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 02, 2013 02:05 PM (CJjw5)

I was on a St. Maarten nude beach a few years ago and I didn't see a single thing that didn't make me shrivel up.

For every hot chick on a nude beach there are 50 overweight, under-groomed middle-aged wannabes.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 02, 2013 10:07 AM (/WLC3)

68 I love the Preston/Child Pendergast novels and I've had the Monster of Florence on my shelf for awhile. One of these days I'll finish it.

Posted by: red923 at May 02, 2013 10:08 AM (OxI/Y)

69 I think they had a documentary or sometype of movie regard to this voyuerism.

Posted by: polynikes at May 02, 2013 10:08 AM (m2CN7)

70 I haven't read the book but I saw a documentary about it posted on YouTube. Search for "The Monster of Florence" if you want to see multiple documentaries on the case. However, like most people, I always recommend reading the book over watching most TV documentaries.

As someone who became fascinated with the field of criminology during my undergrad days when I took "Intro to Criminology" as a free elective and has read many books and watched many documentaries on the subject, I think this is one of the stranger serial killer cases I have seen.

Posted by: Slappy at May 02, 2013 10:08 AM (LTbLf)

71 I was on a St. Maarten nude beach a few years ago and I didn't see a single thing that didn't make me shrivel up.

Orient?

Posted by: EC at May 02, 2013 10:09 AM (GQ8sn)

72 "60 It is these examples that illuminate how fucking lucky we are in this country. Aside from the highly-publicized fuck-ups on the part of prosecutors, usually driven by politics," we're also heavily fucking armed and if 2 dead Texas DA's will cause an all power federal prosecutor to beat feet away from his high profile case at top speed then Italian style legal shenanigans would stop within a few months.

Posted by: Vote Lord Humungus 2016 at May 02, 2013 10:09 AM (HEa5q)

73 Nice, not something I'd have originally looked into picking up, but your review did it justice (not "Italian justice" or you would have reviewed the wrong book).

Think I'll pick this one up.

Posted by: Heralder at May 02, 2013 10:09 AM (+xmn4)

74 What, they don't get the internet in Italy?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 02, 2013 10:09 AM (8ZskC)

I was on a St. Maarten nude beach a few years ago and I didn't see a single thing that didn't make me shrivel up.

----------------------

Is that the island that has the threshold of the runway like, 20 feet from the beach? I've seen some funny videos of people being blown around by the jetwash from big jets spooling up their engines for takeoff.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 02, 2013 10:10 AM (CJjw5)

76 What, they don't get the internet in Italy?

"The murders themselves -- which took place between 1974 (or maybe 1968, sort of) and 1985"

Posted by: EC at May 02, 2013 10:10 AM (GQ8sn)

77 re 55: shouldn't they be called "bush whacker jackers"? or Gerg? or would that be :mouth whac... ewww...

or maybe Moochelle whackers... I denounce myself. Twice, even.

Posted by: mallfly at May 02, 2013 10:10 AM (bJm7W)

78 Leave the used rubbers. Take the cannoli.

Posted by: Clemenza at May 02, 2013 10:11 AM (8ZskC)

79 Posted by: Dad's Everywhere at May 02, 2013 02:05 PM (9Bj8R)<<<<<

HAHAHAHA. Me either, anymore.

Posted by: Your daughters boyfriend at May 02, 2013 10:11 AM (jKWYf)

80 Er, am I missing the name of the book or a link to it?

Posted by: SamIam at May 02, 2013 10:11 AM (S09w5)

81 Posted by: EC at May 02, 2013 02:09 PM (GQ8sn)

Tintamarre, but I don't remember the name of the specific beach.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 02, 2013 10:11 AM (/WLC3)

82 >>>Er, am I missing the name of the book or a link to it? it's in the headline in italics, dude! "The Monster of Florence" by Douglas Preston and Mario Spezi

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 10:12 AM (LCRYB)

83 Ugh nevermind. Naturally I saw it in the frigging title just after I posted above.

Posted by: SamIam at May 02, 2013 10:12 AM (S09w5)

84
Is that the island that has the threshold of the runway like, 20 feet from the beach? I've seen some funny videos of people being blown aroundby the jetwash from big jets spooling up their engines for takeoff.

Yes. Princess Juliana International.

The big ass 747's and Airbuses come in about 10' off the ground to make the landing. There is a beach bar on the other side of the runway with signs telling patrons not to cross when a flight is coming in or taking off.

Posted by: EC at May 02, 2013 10:12 AM (GQ8sn)

85 66 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 02, 2013 02:05 PM (CJjw5)

I was on a St. Maarten nude beach a few years ago and I didn't see a single thing that didn't make me shrivel up.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 02, 2013 02:07 PM (/WLC3)

I use the "it's shriveled up" excuse a lot personally, but I usually blame the air conditioning or a big meal.

Posted by: Slappy at May 02, 2013 10:12 AM (LTbLf)

86 Thanks Ace

Posted by: SamIam at May 02, 2013 10:12 AM (S09w5)

87
For every hot chick on a nude beach there are 50 overweight, under-groomed middle-aged wannabes.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 02, 2013 02:07 PM (/WLC3

We were on the Costa del Sol years ago when our son was a pre-teen. The beach to the left of the hotel was all nude. To the right was clothed. Kid got one glance of the flesh on the nude beach (hairy, chubby guys and overweight women) and declared, "Spain is gross!"

The pool area, however, was full of pretty young things sunbathing topless. I had to instruct the boy that staring was rude. He stood in the pool staring at the bottom. Lol.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 02, 2013 10:12 AM (lVPtV)

88 >> Hmm, which one was that? Sounds like the one about gnosticism, I think.

Posted by: Frank Underwood, D-South Carolina at May 02, 2013 10:13 AM (fscec)

My wife loves Florence. We stay outside of town at the Villa San Michele - nice place and a good cooking school.

Posted by: jwest at May 02, 2013 10:13 AM (u2a4R)

90 "The murders themselves -- which took place between 1974 (or maybe 1968, sort of) and 1985"

Posted by: EC at May 02, 2013 02:10 PM (GQ8sn)

You rich guys with your reading comprehension and shit.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 02, 2013 10:13 AM (8ZskC)

91 Tintamarre, but I don't remember the name of the specific beach.

That's that smaller island off the northwest French side isn't it?

Posted by: EC at May 02, 2013 10:14 AM (GQ8sn)

92 >>> I'll get the book, ace. Thanks for the recommendation. Wish I could afford to get it through your amazon store, but right now gonna have to get it for free at the library. see also the link at the end, to a free article about the murders, by the same author. actually just one of the two authors, though I'm sure most of preston's story comes from spezi. (Spezi was the local paper's "Monsterologist" and was pretty much the nation's go-to reporter on the story; he was as close to the story as any cop. Closer, actually, as most of them got transfered on or off of the case, and he stayed on it all the way through.)

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 10:14 AM (LCRYB)

93 Is that the island that has the threshold of the runway like, 20 feet from the beach? I've seen some funny videos of people being blown aroundby the jetwash from big jets spooling up their engines for takeoff.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 02, 2013 02:10 PM (CJjw5)

-----------------------------------------

It's actually quite fun, except for the sand that takes off the upper dermis when one does it. What's really scary is when jets land. Any lower and heads get lopped off.

Posted by: Soona at May 02, 2013 10:14 AM (fivn3)

94 It sounds interesting but I'm trying to stay away from thinking about corrupt stupid people in positions of authority right now.

I'm guessing Italian style corrupt and stupid is even worse than run of the mill corrupt and stupid.

Posted by: Professor eleven E.P. (expert professor) at May 02, 2013 10:14 AM (KXm42)

@ Jane

6 Yikes. My husband and I vacationed in the Florence area years ago, and ummm...*cough* never mind.

Wish I'd known about these pervs beforehand. *cough*

------------------------

My wife and I went there for a vacation too... years ago... I wondered what that sound was a few cars over.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at May 02, 2013 10:14 AM (EGPJQ)

96 >>>My wife loves Florence. We stay outside of town at the Villa San Michele - nice place and a good cooking school. "Good cars" too.

Posted by: ace, lurkin' in the shadows with bird-glasses at May 02, 2013 10:14 AM (LCRYB)

97 the Sardinian mountain clans Wait, what? Florence is in Tuscany, and Sardinia's a big island off the coast of Italy. What do Sardinians have to do with crime around Florence?

Posted by: Lorenzo Il Magnifico at May 02, 2013 10:15 AM (0gnMc)

98 My wife and I went there for a vacation too... years ago... I wondered what that sound was a few cars over.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at May 02, 2013 02:14 PM (EGPJQ

Um, we weren't in the car. The olive groves and lavender fields are lovely in the summer.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 02, 2013 10:16 AM (lVPtV)

99 Dammit JellyBelly whybdid you have to make the licorice and wild blackberry jelly beans practically the same shade of purple-black?!?! *scrapes tongue with sandpaper*

Posted by: DangerGirl at May 02, 2013 10:16 AM (8xOfO)

100 As to the watching other people having sex in cars, aren't the brits really into that crap, too? In fact, I think they have a specific name for it. Dogging? So on Brokeback Mountain, would it be bull-doggin'?

Posted by: rickb223 at May 02, 2013 10:16 AM (GFM2b)

101 >>>Sounds like the one about gnosticism, I think. oh yeah.... right, sorry about that.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 10:16 AM (LCRYB)

102

People Who Eat Darkness by Richard Lloyd Parry

Posted by: honeybunny at May 02, 2013 10:17 AM (q9+GV)

103 So has the dumbass that has polluted previous ONTs when ace has criticized the Italian justice system shown up here yet?

Posted by: buzzion at May 02, 2013 10:17 AM (LI48c)

104 @ ace Q: Does this take place right in Florence proper or in the surrounding towns?

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at May 02, 2013 10:17 AM (EGPJQ)

105 In spite of what you say... I am a successful dullard!

Posted by: John at May 02, 2013 10:17 AM (rHaMl)

106 96 the Sardinian mountain clans Wait, what? Florence is in Tuscany, and Sardinia's a big island off the coast of Italy. What do Sardinians have to do with crime around Florence? Posted by: Lorenzo Il Magnifico Heh. When the World Cup was in Florence one year, they made the british soccer hooligans play in Sardinia so they would trash the city and kill people.

Posted by: Waldo Truth at May 02, 2013 10:17 AM (sXWmd)

107 FYI, psychopaths tend to be above average in intelligence. It would be better for us all if they weren't.

Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 10:17 AM (uhftQ)

108 But conservatives want to take us back to the Ice Age or something.

Posted by: Barry Soetoro at May 02, 2013 10:18 AM (Q63S1)

109 >>>My wife loves Florence. We stay outside of town at the Villa San Michele - nice place and a good cooking school.

"Good cars" too.

Posted by: ace, lurkin' in the shadows with bird-glasses at May 02, 2013 02:14 PM (LCRYB)

-----------------------

Florence was the first place I ever saw a Smart Car. Fucking ridiculous looking. Driving there was intense. All the swarms of scooters zipping around you like a cloud of bees.

Nerve-wracking sons of bitches.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 02, 2013 10:18 AM (CJjw5)

110 the Sardinian mountain clans

Wait, what?

Forget it. He's rolling.

Posted by: Professor eleven E.P. (expert professor) at May 02, 2013 10:19 AM (KXm42)

111 >>>Wait, what? Florence is in Tuscany, and Sardinia's a big island off the coast of Italy. What do Sardinians have to do with crime around Florence? They immigrated. "The Sardinian Track" is one of the main theories of the case. See, the cops know one thing: That the gun used by some Sardinians in a sort of honor killing, to kill a cheating wife in 1968, is the same gun used in the Monster killings, starting 1974. Ballistic analysis of the casings shows a match. Find that gun, find the murderer. But the Sardinians (so far at least, I'm halfway through) aren't being candid about where that gun ended up.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 10:19 AM (LCRYB)

112 My ancestors were Sardinian mountain clams.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at May 02, 2013 10:19 AM (8ZskC)

113 Sardine clans?

Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 10:20 AM (uhftQ)

114 Quando la fiat Ã¨ un dondolo, non venire a bussare!

Posted by: Luigi at May 02, 2013 10:20 AM (sXWmd)

115 @ ace Q: Does this take place right in Florence proper or in the surroundingtowns?

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at May 02, 2013 02:17 PM (EGPJQ)

--------------------------------------

Why are you asking? Are thinking about canceling your vacation car-rental now?

Posted by: Soona at May 02, 2013 10:20 AM (fivn3)

116 Was hoping for an advanced copy of "Back to Kenya," by Barack Obama.

Posted by: Barry Soetoro at May 02, 2013 10:20 AM (Q63S1)

117 What's really scary is when jets land. Any lower and heads get lopped off.

Posted by: Soona at May 02, 2013 02:14 PM (fivn3)

In St. Barths, the runway is on the reverse side of a hill/mountain. The pilot has to fly over the peak, then immediately nose-dive to make the landing, or else he goes into the water at the end of the runway. If you hate flying, this is the absolute nightmare stuff! When you leave the island, the plane leaves over the beach area. There are signs with huge warnings in French and English to be cautious around the end of the runway when planes are about. A few years ago, I remember hearing about a tourist who wandered onto the runway when a plane was taking off because he wanted to get some awesome pictures. The landing gear of the plane clipped his head during takeoff. He died during the airlift to St. Maarten, fifteen minutes away.

Posted by: EC at May 02, 2013 10:20 AM (GQ8sn)

118

All the swarms of scooters zipping around you like a cloud of bees.

Nerve-wracking sons of bitches.Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 02, 2013 02:18 PM (CJjw5)

sounds like Beijing.

Posted by: madamemayhem at May 02, 2013 10:20 AM (S2RnE)

119 As most likely the only one here who has actually lived in Sardinia and who's daughter's godfather is sardinia's chief of police, Italy has changed a lot and trust me, although the culture there is very superstitious, act the fool and you won't make it to sassarri's jail, you'll be in the hills Any questions on the greatest place to live on the planet?

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 02, 2013 10:21 AM (igDix)

120 106 FYI, psychopaths tend to be above average in intelligence. It would be better for us all if they weren't.

Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 02:17 PM (uhftQ)

The psychopaths that aren't wind up dead or are in prison for murder already.

Posted by: buzzion at May 02, 2013 10:21 AM (LI48c)

121 Why are you asking? Are thinking about canceling your vacation car-rental now?

Posted by: Soona

***

Nope. getting a bigger one with more (ahem) leg room.

Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 10:21 AM (uhftQ)

122

A few years ago, I remember hearing about a tourist who wandered onto the runway when a plane was taking off because he wanted to get some awesome pictures. The landing gear of the plane clipped his head during takeoff. He died during the airlift to St. Maarten, fifteen minutes away.

---------------------------

So, how did the pictures turn out?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 02, 2013 10:21 AM (CJjw5)

123 >>>@ ace Q: Does this take place right in Florence proper or in the surroundingtowns? surrounding, but we're talking close suburbs. As a casual matter you'd call it "Florence," but technically it's not Florence itself. (Although Florentines are murdered, as they duck into the country to have sex.) Though there are, at the same time, a series of murders of prostitutes in Florence proper which may or may not be connected to the Monster killings.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 10:22 AM (LCRYB)

124 All the swarms of scooters zipping around you like a cloud of bees.

Pffft. Piker.

Posted by: Saigon at May 02, 2013 10:22 AM (8ZskC)

125 When your Fiat is a lemon, don't kiss it.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at May 02, 2013 10:22 AM (C8mVl)

126

Dude, "spoilers?" I don't think it was Col. Mustard in the library with a candlestick.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at May 02, 2013 10:23 AM (+z4pE)

127 psychopaths tend to be above average in intelligence. It would be better for us all if they weren't.

Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 02:17 PM (uhftQ)

I refute it thus: Barack Hussein Obama.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 02, 2013 10:23 AM (/WLC3)

128 When Lucas and Spielberg told me they wanted to film my auto-biography, I told them, sure. Even gave them the title for the movie- "Pooters of the Car Park". But...well...you can see where things went awry.

Posted by: Indiana Jones at May 02, 2013 10:23 AM (vJ+mj)

129

@Soona

---

Have vacationed in Tuscany several imes - never stayed right in Florence. We've wandered around the area; especially west of there toward Lucca. I've never heard of this crime.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at May 02, 2013 10:23 AM (EGPJQ)

130 When the World Cup was in Florence one year, they made the british soccer hooligans play in Sardinia so they would trash the city and kill people.

Posted by: Waldo Truth at May 02, 2013 02:17 PM (sXWmd)

I remember that, the Italians, with their pink socks flashing in the sun, running from the limey hooligans.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at May 02, 2013 10:23 AM (rXcBX)

131 How do they have sex in them little farty cars they got?

Posted by: Professor eleven E.P. (expert professor) at May 02, 2013 10:23 AM (KXm42)

132 So, how did the pictures turn out?

I guess this was the last thing he saw in his viewfinder.

http://tinyurl.com/bu3hlwd

Posted by: EC at May 02, 2013 10:24 AM (GQ8sn)

133 Ace, it was the Eric Voegelin book .

Posted by: Yip at May 02, 2013 10:24 AM (/jHWN)

134 on the Sardinians-- If you missed my explanation, scroll up to earlier comments. It's not an error. There is a "Sardinian Track" of the investigation which, I'm 99% sure, is where Preston and Spezi think the actual murder is to be found. See, Sardinians move to Florence.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 10:24 AM (LCRYB)

135 >>>Ace, it was the Eric Voegelin book yeah sorry about that. I still think it's interesting. I'm not convinced, but it's interesting.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 10:25 AM (LCRYB)

136 I refute it thus: Barack Hussein Obama.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

***

I said "tend to be", as in not all as per your example.

Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 10:25 AM (uhftQ)

137 Yeah, Italy is a wonderful museum, albeit one covered in pigeon poop and lead from gasoline. Go before the buildings crumble. Florence now is all about the decadent phase of Western Civilization, when everybody forgets how superior it is.

When I went for a month, the academic folks sternly warned the group, mostly college kids, to NOT get in trouble here, to NOT get in a car with Italian guys, etc. Scared them straight.

Posted by: PJ at May 02, 2013 10:25 AM (ZWaLo)

138 surrounding, but we're talking close suburbs. As a casual matter you'd call it "Florence," but technically it's not Florence itself. (Although Florentines are murdered, as they duck into the country to have sex.)

Though there are, at the same time, a series of murders of prostitutes in Florence proper which may or may not be connected to the Monster killings.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 02:22 PM (LCRYB)

---------------------------------------------

Geez. If I want to visit a city that's like Detroit, I'll just go to Detroit.

Posted by: Soona at May 02, 2013 10:25 AM (fivn3)

139
Isn't it time for the Romance languages to lose their accent marks?
English doesn't need those training wheels; we figure out stresses on our own by deducing the context.

They can't do that in Italian, Spanish, or French?

And as far as similes go, we can figure out read and read without accents.

Posted by: soothsayer at May 02, 2013 10:26 AM (8dspl)

140 Oh and CBD....Nyah.

Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 10:26 AM (uhftQ)

141 130. Sex in a fiat punto will ruin your back Or rumor has it

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 02, 2013 10:26 AM (E8hSa)

142 If you ever get the chance, take the train from Milan through Bologna and on to Florence. Great ride and the compartments are private, so don't have to wait to have sex in a car.

Posted by: jwest at May 02, 2013 10:26 AM (u2a4R)

143 "The Sardinian Track" is one of the main theories of the case. See, the cops know one thing: That the gun used by some Sardinians in a sort of honor killing, to kill a cheating wife in 1968, is the same gun used in the Monster killings, starting 1974.

Ballistic analysis of the casings shows a match.

Find that gun, find the murderer.

Or, not.

How is this for a theory? Some guy kills his wife in Sardinia in 1968. Takes the gun to the mainland to get rid of it. Tosses it from a moving car on some backstreet in a large city. Someone finds the gun, sells it to a shady character. This not so easily traced guns changes hands several times, eventually ending up in the clutches of the Florentine Monster.

Posted by: Momar K. Daffy at May 02, 2013 10:27 AM (z9HTb)

144 I always liked the little church up in the hills across the river. Its green, rose, and white marble. Looks like ice cream. There's a grave yard with teenagers who died around Aug 12, 1944. I think that is when Himmler sent out an order to clear the jails before they retreated. There's also a life size statute of a woman in evening wear and a man in uniform dancing. The epitaph says he died in a camp in Westphalia and she died of a broken heart.

Posted by: Luigi at May 02, 2013 10:27 AM (sXWmd)

145

BTW, fellow wine-lovers,

Sella&Mosca makes a Sardinian wine called Cannonau de Sardegna which is very good, and very cheap. It's the same grape as grenache.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 02, 2013 10:27 AM (CJjw5)

146 you'd call it "Florence," but technically it's not Florence itself. (Although Florentines are murdered, as they duck into the country to have sex.) ********** You mean the Wops are still getting Whacked?

Posted by: tasker at May 02, 2013 10:27 AM (r2PLg)

147 My wife lived in Florence for a couple years, visits occasionally. I've never been but it's definitely on the vague future itinerary.

Posted by: Lincolntf at May 02, 2013 10:28 AM (ZshNr)

148 Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 02:25 PM (uhftQ)

It was a joke! See? I was suggesting both that BHO is a psychopath and not very bright.

Sigh......

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 02, 2013 10:28 AM (/WLC3)

149 >>>ow is this for a theory? Some guy kills his wife in Sardinia in 1968. Takes the gun to the mainland to get rid of it. Tosses it from a moving car on some backstreet in a large city. Someone finds the gun, sells it to a shady character. This not so easily traced guns changes hands several times, eventually ending up in the clutches of the Florentine Monster well this particular murder took place near florence, by sardinians. As far as finding the gun: Well, I guess they found the boxes of ammo too, because it's the same ammo from the 1968 crime.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 10:28 AM (LCRYB)

150 For one thing, the book's a solid travelogue about Florence and its environs. Worth a trip just to see the "real" David sculpture located in Florence.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at May 02, 2013 10:28 AM (XYSwB)

151 "Yes! The Duchess dove at the Duke just when the Duke dove at the Doge. Now the Duke ducked, the Doge dodged, and the Duchess didn't. So the Duke got the Duchess, the Duchess got the Doge, and the Doge got the Duke! "

Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 10:29 AM (uhftQ)

152

How is this for a theory? Some guy kills his wife in Sardinia in 1968. Takes the gun to the mainland to get rid of it. Tosses it from a moving car on some backstreet in a large city. Someone finds the gun, sells it to a shady character. This not so easily traced guns changes hands several times, eventually ending up in the clutches of the Florentine Monster.

-----------------------------

Sounds like they needed to close the Sardinian Discarded Murder Weapon Loophole with some fuckin universal background checks.

For the children.

Fucking in their cars.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 02, 2013 10:29 AM (CJjw5)

153 My wife is planning to visit Italy next fall with a bunch of her book club friends. I told her she's going to be kidnapped and sold into white slavery like in Taken, except that I don't have any money, I don't have any special set of skills, and I won't find her kidnapper.

Good luck.

Posted by: EC at May 02, 2013 10:30 AM (GQ8sn)

154 Bil Ayers is probably a psychopath. Obama-just a malignant narcissist. I'm sure that fills us all with great peace of mind

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 02, 2013 10:30 AM (INYkK)

155 Off, dead dictator sock.

Posted by: fluffy at May 02, 2013 10:31 AM (z9HTb)

156 Someone needs to open a Motel 6 up in there.

Posted by: tasker at May 02, 2013 10:31 AM (r2PLg)

157 It was a joke! See? I was suggesting both that BHO is a psychopath and not very bright.

Sigh......

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

***

I know. Hence my nyah response further down.

Nyah again.

Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 10:31 AM (uhftQ)

158 >>>I told her she's going to be kidnapped and sold into white slavery like in Taken, except that I don't have any money, I don't have any special set of skills, and I won't find her kidnapper. hah! Funny. (making note) EC has no counter-kidnapping skills.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 10:31 AM (LCRYB)

159 Worst. Travelogue. Ever.

Posted by: Dr Spank at May 02, 2013 10:31 AM (4cRnj)

160 Part of our stay was in Greve in Chianti, at the Villa Vignamaggio. The film "Much Ado About Nothing" was shot there. The best vacation ever. I'd kill to go back.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 02, 2013 10:32 AM (lVPtV)

161 153 Bil Ayers is probably a psychopath. Obama-just a malignant narcissist. I'm sure that fills us all with great peace of mind Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 02, 2013 02:30 PM (INYkK) *********** And the media are the "Indianas". Le Fin, ou Le Fiat.

Posted by: tasker at May 02, 2013 10:32 AM (r2PLg)

162 Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 02:31 PM (uhftQ)

My wife seems to be correct.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 02, 2013 10:32 AM (/WLC3)

163 How is this for a theory? Some guy kills his wife in Sardinia in 1968. Takes the gun to the mainland to get rid of it. Tosses it from a moving car on some backstreet in a large city. Someone finds the gun, sells it to a shady character. This not so easily traced guns changes hands several times, eventually ending up in the clutches of the Florentine Monster.

Posted by: Momar K. Daffy at May 02, 2013 02:27 PM (z9HTb)

---------------------------------------------

It sounds like Italy needs to pass some gun registration laws so things like this don't happen.

Posted by: Soona at May 02, 2013 10:32 AM (fivn3)

164 EC, that's what I've been avoiding saying to my wife, who is travelling to fucking India this summer against my better judgment.

Posted by: Lincolntf at May 02, 2013 10:32 AM (ZshNr)

165 Just started this book- I found it in a thrift shop, and bought it entirely based on Ace's description of it a few weeks ago. Unsolved murder mysteries tend to leave me disappointed - the last few Ann Rule books I've read have tended in that direction, and I get to the end and wonder why she bothered wasting my time over something so inconclusive. But this one sounds like it might have enough other stuff to compensate for the lack of "closure".

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at May 02, 2013 10:32 AM (FkH4y)

166 OT; sooo I'm thinking of buying a used Audi A3.. Any morons have one?

Posted by: Yip at May 02, 2013 10:33 AM (/jHWN)

167 Never buy a used car from Florence, pro tip.

Posted by: Lincolntf at May 02, 2013 10:34 AM (ZshNr)

168 Seriously you could make a killing renting rooms by the minute.

Posted by: Professor eleven E.P. (expert professor) at May 02, 2013 10:34 AM (KXm42)

169 well this particular murder took place near florence, by sardinians.

Where is the tie to Sardinia, other than a gun that was used there 6 years ago? Granted, I pulled my theory out of my ass, but it is plausible. Smelly, but plausible.

Posted by: fluffy at May 02, 2013 10:34 AM (z9HTb)

170 Posted by: Lincolntf at May 02, 2013 02:32 PM (ZshNr)

My wife just spent a week in Mumbai, on her company's very generous teat, and hated every single minute of it.

She said that the word "shit-hole" is hopelessly inadequate to describe it.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 02, 2013 10:34 AM (/WLC3)

171 EC, that's what I've been avoiding saying to my wife, who is travelling to fucking India this summer against my better judgment.

By herself? Dude...kidnap her first and take her to Hawaii or something.

Posted by: EC at May 02, 2013 10:34 AM (GQ8sn)

172 165 OT; sooo I'm thinking of buying a used Audi A3.. Any morons have one?
Posted by: Yip

Do the seats lay down?

Posted by: The Florence Mauler at May 02, 2013 10:34 AM (4cRnj)

173 I can't think of any caught lover's-lane shooters. Seems easy to get away with. So maybe (very small "maybe" here) they're fascinating dudes.

Not many violent criminals proceed sanely (sanely enough to sustain a long series of prominent unsolved crimes, I mean), and not many serial killers are very concerned about evading capture (often the opposite), but if a guy was trying to rationally balance his continuing freedom with also doing some horrible the-legend-will-never-die type crimes, this Zodiac/Phantom/Monster kind of thing might be the vocation for him.

So, he wouldn't have many traditional Loser-style movie-serial-killer/useless-FBI-profile characteristics. Maybe none.

And maybe HE'S IN THIS THEATER RIGHT NOW

Posted by: oblig. at May 02, 2013 10:35 AM (cePv8)

174 OT; sooo I'm thinking of buying a used Audi A3.. Any morons have one?

Posted by: Yip

***

I have not heard good things about used Audis. I'm on a Buick forum and couple people there were having nightmare issues.

One issue was that they needed repair way eralier than they should. Then what might be a 3-5k repair for a different car was 8-12k for the Audis.

Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 10:35 AM (uhftQ)

175

*collapsing in thread*

Just had... two hour... conference call...

Kill... me now...

*deep, cleansing breaths*

But this sounds like a very interesting book. i"m not into true crime stories myself, mostly because they depress the hell out of me, but it sounds like a fascinating read.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorirst) Party Hobbit [/s][/i][/b][/u] at May 02, 2013 10:36 AM (4df7R)

176 My wife seems to be correct.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

***

Hey, I chuckled.

Tell her Nyah for me.

Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 10:36 AM (uhftQ)

177 Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 02:35 PM (uhftQ)

Got a link to the Buick forum?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 02, 2013 10:36 AM (/WLC3)

178 And maybe HE'S IN THIS THEATER RIGHT NOW

Probably Larry. He's been kinda twitchy lately.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at May 02, 2013 10:38 AM (/kI1Q)

179 Awesome Ace!! I actually picked this book up at a garage sale recently, and it's been in my to-read-someday pile for several months! It just went to the top of the stack!!

Posted by: Beckster at May 02, 2013 10:38 AM (kj0P/)

180 163EC, that's what I've been avoiding saying to my wife, who is travelling to fucking India this summer against my better judgment.

Posted by: Lincolntf at May 02, 2013 02:32 PM (ZshNr)

Please tell her to avoid buses. A lady friend of mine lived in India for a time and this was one of her prime pieces of advice.

Posted by: Heralder at May 02, 2013 10:38 AM (+xmn4)

181 The one time I did a lover's lane bit in high school the cops actually knocked on my fogged up windows. Probably shouldn't have picked my high school parking lot. All my other girlfriends were latchkey kids whose moms worked late and whose dads lived in another state with their 2nd wife. Tons of sexual privacy in that scenario.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 02, 2013 10:38 AM (ZPrif)

182

here ya go CBD.

http://www.v8buick.com/

Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 10:38 AM (uhftQ)

183 STDS

Sudden Thread Death Syndrome.

Posted by: Professor eleven E.P. (expert professor) at May 02, 2013 10:38 AM (KXm42)

184

Ace, in light of the last couple posts about the rioting anarchists, if you are looking for a good historical fiction book, I recommend "The Cypresses Believe in God":
http://tinyurl.com/dxkcgyy

It is a book about a typical kid in a typical, mid-size Spanish town during the Spanish Civil War. This war is considered to be the perfect microcosm of the struggles of the 20th century. It is also one of the least studied events in 20th century history, unfortunately.

If you are looking to read something about a period of time that will blow your mind, check out this book. The parallels between what happened leading up to, and then during, the Spanish Civil War and where we find ourselves today are uncanny.

Posted by: dan-O at May 02, 2013 10:38 AM (G+bgR)

185 Not by herself, with a group of about 8, all art historians, archaeologists, anthropologists. One of the women in the group is an Indian-born American woman who has done most of the logistical work putting the itinerary together. They've been trying to do the trip for years, and are dead set on going. They'll be staying in Western chain hotels and have professional guide service, but that's cold comfort in a place like Mumbai.

Posted by: Lincolntf at May 02, 2013 10:39 AM (ZshNr)

186 Has anyone heard of the crime book Red Dragon? I heard its supposed to be good and they might make a movie from it.

Posted by: polynikes at May 02, 2013 10:39 AM (m2CN7)

187
To go with Ace's previous medicaid post, this is a pretty good article.

http://tinyurl.com/brywzgm

Posted by: Your daughters boyfriend at May 02, 2013 10:39 AM (jKWYf)

188 hey... seats fold down. I've read here and there of probs, but seem to be people pissed stuff was breaking that shouldn't ( expectations ) and issues with some of the do-dads. I'm looking at one with a simple 6 sp manual, 2wd and 2009 before they really started adding too many gizmos, ( could be wrong) Looks fun. Waiting for it to ship in from down state and I'll test drive it. ( carmax )

Posted by: Yip at May 02, 2013 10:39 AM (/jHWN)

189 I can't think of any caught lover's-lane shooters. Seems easy to get away with. So maybe (very small "maybe" here) they're fascinating dudes.

There was a double homicide case in TN a few years ago. Instapundit, who lives in TN, blogged about this a lot. A young white couple was out in lover's lane, and they get jumped by a group of black miscreants, both male and female. The white couple are sexually tortured and murdered. I think there was a push to label this a hate crime because one of the murders admitted something about "getting white people", but it was knocked down. I can't remember the names or how it all turned out.

Posted by: EC at May 02, 2013 10:39 AM (GQ8sn)

190 A bus ride in India.

Good times.

Posted by: Professor eleven E.P. (expert professor) at May 02, 2013 10:40 AM (KXm42)

191 And I'm on there under a different name. Makes me harder to track by leftists.

Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 10:40 AM (uhftQ)

192 There was a double homicide case in TN a few years ago. Instapundit, who lives in TN, blogged about this a lot. A young white couple was out in lover's lane, and they get jumped by a group of black miscreants, both male and female. The white couple are sexually tortured and murdered. I think there was a push to label this a hate crime because one of the murders admitted something about "getting white people", but it was knocked down. I can't remember the names or how it all turned out.

Posted by: EC at May 02, 2013 02:39 PM (GQ8sn)

Michelle Malkin has done quite a few columns about that case. Disgusting; just disgusting.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorirst) Party Hobbit [/s][/i][/b][/u] at May 02, 2013 10:40 AM (4df7R)

193 I rode a bus once.. once!

Posted by: Yip at May 02, 2013 10:41 AM (/jHWN)

194 One-time bestselling author publicly comes out as a homonym to peers. President sends message in support of the brave act addressed, "To Whom it May Concern."

Posted by: Future Reporter at May 02, 2013 10:41 AM (I88Jc)

195

This brings the OJ murders of 19 years ago (yes, 19!) to mind. Has there ever been a true factual account in book form published on those?

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at May 02, 2013 10:41 AM (EGPJQ)

196 157 >>>I told her she's going to be kidnapped and sold into white slavery like in Taken, except that I don't have any money, I don't have any special set of skills, and I won't find her kidnapper. hah! Funny. (making note) EC has no counter-kidnapping skills. Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 02:31 PM (LCRYB) And if you've seen his wife pics he's put on the ont you would know she definitely kidnappable. You would want to kidnap her over and over again :p

Posted by: Buzzion at May 02, 2013 10:42 AM (R3cRf)

197 hey... seats fold down. I've read here and there of probs, but seem to be people pissed stuff was breaking that shouldn't ( expectations ) and issues with some of the do-dads. I'm looking at one with a simple 6 sp manual, 2wd and 2009 before they really started adding too many gizmos, ( could be wrong) Looks fun. Waiting for it to ship in from down state and I'll test drive it. ( carmax )

Posted by: Yip

***

The only thing I worry about with AWD is when it needs repair. Costs get ugly.

Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 10:42 AM (uhftQ)

198 Good for you, Ace. I tried reading the book some time back (I'm also a true-crime buff), but the writing style pissed me off no end. And not for any reason I can really articulate; simply that much of it, to me, read like a bad novel. And if you've ever read The Director's Cut, I know from bad novels.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 02, 2013 10:42 AM (zF6Iw)

199 This brings the OJ murders of 19 years ago (yes, 19!) to mind. Has there ever been a true factual account in book form published on those?

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at May 02, 2013 02:41 PM (EGPJQ)

HAH!

No.

Though when the Juice eventually kicks the bucket, I'm sure that book of his, "If I Did It" or whatever, will finally find its way out to the public.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorirst) Party Hobbit [/s][/i][/b][/u] at May 02, 2013 10:43 AM (4df7R)

200 193. I liked it!

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 02, 2013 10:43 AM (INYkK)

201 Posted by: Lincolntf at May 02, 2013 02:39 PM (ZshNr) Your wife an intellectual lady, travelling with a group of like minded individuals who will see Mumbai through different eyes than typical tourists. I think she'll be just fine and that she'll have a blast.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at May 02, 2013 10:43 AM (PkYpQ)

202 I can't remember the names or how it all turned out.

Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom
http://is.gd/9l2fKi

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at May 02, 2013 10:44 AM (/kI1Q)

203

I can't think of any caught lover's-lane shooters.

____

Paging Jimmy Breslin!

Posted by: The Dog Named Sam at May 02, 2013 10:44 AM (A0sHn)

204 Stay out of the Bushes!

Posted by: Baldy at May 02, 2013 10:44 AM (tyDFN)

205

David Berkowitz approved?

Anyone interested in the SoS case should read The Ultimate Evil by Maury Terry. He believes Berkowitz was a patsy for a larger cult connected to Manson and the Process Church of the Final Judgement, and that some of the murders (especially Stacy Moskowitz) were filmed for snuff collectors.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 02, 2013 10:44 AM (zF6Iw)

206 Ace, there is also a good book about Savonarola and his rise and fall - Fire in the City

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at May 02, 2013 10:44 AM (fCkqS)

207 Y'all do NOT want to read about that case in TN.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at May 02, 2013 10:44 AM (PkYpQ)

208 I'm something of a crime buff...I have studied Soviet serial killing and mass murder, guess I need to work on my Italian

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 02, 2013 10:45 AM (LRFds)

209 Interesting reading this, because I was there in the summer of '84, backpacking and camping out in the hills around Florence.

Posted by: rdbrewer at May 02, 2013 10:45 AM (Iyg03)

210 Thanks Tammy, I hope you're right.

Posted by: Lincolntf at May 02, 2013 10:45 AM (ZshNr)

211 185 Has anyone heard of the crime book Red Dragon? I heard its supposed to be good and they might make a movie from it. Posted by: polynikes at May 02, 2013 02:39 PM (m2CN7) They did in 2002

Posted by: Buzzion at May 02, 2013 10:45 AM (R3cRf)

212 206 Tammy Al-Thor...thanks you mean the "Imma flush baby at HS case" or is this another one?

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 02, 2013 10:45 AM (LRFds)

213

Posted by: Lincolntf at May 02, 2013 02:39 PM (ZshNr)

I don't blame you for being anxious, Lincoln. But the fact that she'll be in a sizeable group with other westerners in a western hotel and a native of the country as part of the group -- plus paid guides -- puts her in a much better situation than otherwise. Make sure she checks in with you regularly; it'll ease your worry at least a little to hear her.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorirst) Party Hobbit [/s][/i][/b][/u] at May 02, 2013 10:45 AM (4df7R)

214 Hah, Ace, I saw the title and instantly thought you were reviewing another Amanda Knox book. Is learning Italian next on the list of romance languages you wish to conquer?

Don't know if you've read it Ace, but the japanese comic strip Hetalia is a hysterical, satirical look at international relations, especially around WW2, and its favorite punching bag is modern day Italy. There is a character representing ancient Rome, and his reactions at seeing his wimpified, noodle eating, lazy predecessor is pretty priceless.

Posted by: LizLem at May 02, 2013 10:45 AM (8wqqE)

215 Y'all do NOT want to read about that case in TN.

The link I was posted was more about the lack of media coverage than the actual crime, which was indeed horrific.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at May 02, 2013 10:46 AM (/kI1Q)

216 that was the knoxville massacre -- it wasn't a lover's lane situation. the black thugs carjacked a young white college couple, took them back to their place and raped and tortured them for days. They explicitly chose a young white couple with that preppy fraternity-sorority look because they wanted to destroy something white and beautiful to punish white America. Their baby mamas made them pancakes to keep up their energy during the raping and torturing. The media suppressed the story. One of the worst race hate crimes in decades. They raped them every way it's possible to rape another human being, both the guy and the girl. They punctured their colons with various objects. At the end they poured bleach down her throat while she was still alive in an attempt to destroy DNA evidence. and they set the guy on fire in their backyard. Incredibly evil. If the races were reversed we'd know the killers names and Obama would hold a rally on the anniversary of the massacre. But they were a young white college couple with everything to look forward to -- so the media suppressed the story.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 02, 2013 10:46 AM (ZPrif)

217 Megan's showing the California video again.....where they took the couple's baby.

Posted by: Tami[/i][/b][/u][/s] at May 02, 2013 10:46 AM (X6akg)

218

"Never be accused of committing a serious crime there."

Fuck. I'm headed to Italy next week. I'll make sure to really watch my Ps & Qs.

Posted by: fastfreefall at May 02, 2013 10:46 AM (MPEti)

219 Megyn Kelly showing the babdy snatching vid again

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 02, 2013 10:46 AM (piMMO)

220 I can't remember the names or how it all turned out.

Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom
http://is.gd/9l2fKi

Posted by: HeatherRadishÂ™ needs a beer at May 02, 2013 02:44 PM (/kI1Q)

Holy crap, that trial turned out to be one gigantic clusterfuck.

Posted by: EC at May 02, 2013 10:47 AM (GQ8sn)

221 Didn't Ace post this book review a couple months ago? Or am I having psychic flashforwards again.

Posted by: irright at May 02, 2013 10:47 AM (8GKDa)

222 I think I saw an HBO movie about that Russian child sex killer. It was awful, and made MUCH worse by the USSR which hid the facts for long time, so kids kept getting killed.

Posted by: Baldy at May 02, 2013 10:47 AM (tyDFN)

223 The prosecutor that tried to arrest Preston and his co author for being part of the Satanic Death Orgy Murder cult was the same one behind the Amanda Knox prosecution- also for being part of a Satanic Death Orgy Murder cult.

Oh, and the key piece of evidence that convicted Knox was a knife found at her boyfriend's apartment with a speck of the roommate's blood on the tip (despite the fact that even the prosecution acknowledged that the knife was not a match for any of the stab wounds). Knox got a acquitted when it turned out that the "blood" on the knife did not belong to the roommate, and was not even blood at all. It was vegetable starch. Yup, the area's lead forensic investigator was too incompetent to tell the difference between human blood and a goddamn vegetable.

By the way, Italy is also the country that sent 6 seismologists to jail on manslaughter charges for "failing to predict an earthquake". Which is actually fucking impossible to do with current technology.

Italy has got to have the most backwoods, medieval justice system in the western world. Even if you're somehow found not guilty of whatever bullshit charge they decide to throw at you, you still spend half a decade in jail. If you ever visit, I suggest making sure you have an airtight alibi at all times.

Posted by: Justin at May 02, 2013 10:47 AM (yoAYX)

224 I had never heard of the Process Church of the Final Judgement. I just looked up a little about it. Ugggggggh!!

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 02, 2013 10:47 AM (INYkK)

225 210 Buzzion,

Protip they did in ~86 IIRC called Manhunter....better telling

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 02, 2013 10:47 AM (LRFds)

226 Y'all do NOT want to read about that case in TN.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor

***

Agreed. It will anger you to no end.

Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 10:47 AM (uhftQ)

227

Posted by: Buzzion at May 02, 2013 02:45 PM (R3cRf)

They made two actually. I was just trying to be cluelessly funny.

Posted by: polynikes at May 02, 2013 10:48 AM (m2CN7)

228 sven, not the baby case, the couple who were unspeakably tortured by a gang of animals case.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at May 02, 2013 10:48 AM (PkYpQ)

229 RE: The only thing I worry about with AWD is when it needs repair. Costs get ugly. Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale

Thanks.. me too. I'm hoping getting the front wheel drive simple version, I might avoid all that.. but who knows. So, anyhoo.. do you have a older Buick? I learned to drive in a '66 Buick Special. Only Buick I've ever driven.

Posted by: Yip at May 02, 2013 10:48 AM (/jHWN)

230 221 Baldy,

don't know about the film but Chikatillo got probably a spare 5 years to play b/c he was an ardent commie.

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 02, 2013 10:49 AM (LRFds)

231 227 Tammy Al-Thor,

ah...ain't we a proud rising race of being?

I am sometimes tempted to sew my eyes shut...

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 02, 2013 10:50 AM (LRFds)

232 198 This brings the OJ murders of 19 years ago (yes, 19!) to mind. Has there ever been a true factual account in book form published on those? Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at May 02, 2013 02:41 PM (EGPJQ) HAH! No. Though when the Juice eventually kicks the bucket, I'm sure that book of his, "If I Did It" or whatever, will finally find its way out to the public. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorirst) Party Hobbit at May 02, 2013 02:43 PM (4df7R) I thought the book did get released and any profits end up going to the goldmans.

Posted by: Buzzion at May 02, 2013 10:50 AM (R3cRf)

233
sven, yep, MANHUNTER was a quality movie

we discussed it here a few years ago

it featured that Michael Mann-esque "throng" of music, epsecially at the end

Posted by: soothsayer at May 02, 2013 10:51 AM (+oin+)

234 Well you sold me. Bought thru your Amazon link.

Posted by: mr. impulse buyer at May 02, 2013 10:51 AM (l3RZ9)

235 Didn't Ace post this book review a couple months ago? Or am I having psychic flashforwards again. *** I believe he discussed the case as part of the Amanda Knox trial post.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 02, 2013 10:51 AM (piMMO)

236 I thought the book did get released and any profits end up going to the goldmans.

Posted by: Buzzion at May 02, 2013 02:50 PM (R3cRf)

It was my understanding that the publisher scrapped it, but any future printings WOULD go to the Goldman family.

Of course, things may have changed in the interim.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorirst) Party Hobbit [/s][/i][/b][/u] at May 02, 2013 10:51 AM (4df7R)

237

the last few Ann Rule books I've read have tended in that direction, and I get to the end and wonder why she bothered wasting my time over something so inconclusive

Try Green River Running Red, her book on the Green River Killer, Gary Ridgeway.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 02, 2013 10:52 AM (zF6Iw)

238 That TN case... I followed it back in the day, but didn't know the trial issues... The whole thing, especially the media's disinterest, made me raging mad. Every time I pause and think of the pure evil... what those two went through... over and over... a night of torture... And probably most people have never heard of it.

Posted by: Yip at May 02, 2013 10:52 AM (/jHWN)

239 And when will the killers be up for parole-in 10 years?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 02, 2013 10:52 AM (INYkK)

240 New "born alive" abortion thread up. *spits on them!*

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorirst) Party Hobbit [/s][/i][/b][/u] at May 02, 2013 10:52 AM (4df7R)

241 They explicitly chose a young white couple with that preppy fraternity-sorority look because they wanted to destroy something white and beautiful to punish white America.

Reggie and I read the trial documents from that to get in the mood, if you know what I mean.

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama, Mmm Mmm Mmm at May 02, 2013 10:53 AM (B/VB5)

242 232 soothsayer,

the production is dated but they portrayed the Character of Will Graham FAR better....Hannibal is a supporting character not "co equal"....

also I think they handled Gumb better

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 02, 2013 10:53 AM (LRFds)

243 It was my understanding that the publisher scrapped it, but any future printings WOULD go to the Goldman family.

Of course, things may have changed in the interim.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorirst) Party Hobbit at May 02, 2013 02:51 PM (4df7R)

I found this on Amazon.....where you can buy the book.

In 2006, HarperCollins announced the publication of a book in which O.J. Simpson told how he hypothetically would have committed the murders. In response to public outrage that Simpson stood to profit from these crimes, HarperCollins canceled the book. A Florida bankruptcy court awarded the rights to the Goldmans in August 2007 to satisfy the civil judgment in part. The Goldman family views the book as his confession, and has worked hard to ensure that the public will read this book and learn the truth. This is O.J. Simpson's original manuscript, approved by him, with up to 14,000 words of additional key commentary.

Posted by: Tami[/i][/b][/u][/s] at May 02, 2013 10:54 AM (X6akg)

244

Its pyscho, savage murders like the TN case that must make atheists question their faith.

To quote Hillary, if these savages aren't going to pay for it in the afterlife, what difference does it make?

Posted by: polynikes at May 02, 2013 10:54 AM (m2CN7)

245 Time for a Ramirez cartoon break: http://www.investors.com/editorial-cartoons/michael-ramirez/

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 02, 2013 10:55 AM (INYkK)

246 Thanks.. me too. I'm hoping getting the front wheel drive simple version, I might avoid all that.. but who knows. So, anyhoo.. do you have a older Buick? I learned to drive in a '66 Buick Special. Only Buick I've ever driven.

Posted by: Yip

***

I used to want an Eagle Talon, but the AWD repair horror stories made me change my mind.

Buicks? I've had 3, down to my last one.

1968 Buick GS 350 (Skylark) currently restoring with my father. Turns out it's one of his favorite cars. Darned genetics.

Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 10:55 AM (uhftQ)

247 I have a good friend who bought a 2010 Audi Q5 used--about 48,000 miles on it. He and his wife love it. They actually were there at the Audi dealership when the guy traded it in for a Q8 because his wife had twins and they needed a bigger SUV. He said that the guy reported no trouble with it.

That is all I know about Audis. I am driving my fifth Lexus (husband had two RX SUVS before he died and I am on my third GS)...absolutely trouble free cars/SUVs. As a widow, a worry free car is a good thing.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes C'est Magnifique at May 02, 2013 10:55 AM (kXoT0)

248
re: that CA baby vid

This is a big part of the reason I have a low opinion of Fox News -- because they have a low opinion of me.

Their entire programming is designed to push our buttons. They put on a show to play on our ideological emotions. When I realized this, I saw how insincere they really are.

Posted by: soothsayer at May 02, 2013 10:56 AM (Ba6aP)

249 Sounds like you are buying into the "innocence of Amanda Knox" meme.

Posted by: Adjoran at May 02, 2013 10:56 AM (473jB)

250 Thanks Sherry+ heh heh

Posted by: Yip at May 02, 2013 10:57 AM (/jHWN)

251 re: that CA baby vid

This is a big part of the reason I have a low opinion of Fox News -- because they have a low opinion of me.

Their entire programming is designed to push our buttons. They put on a show to play on our ideological emotions. When I realized this, I saw how insincere they really are.

Posted by: soothsayer at May 02, 2013 10:57 AM (8dspl)

252 >>> I believe he discussed the case as part of the Amanda Knox trial post. yeah, what happened is that Preston kept coming up, and I read about his conclusions on the Knox case, him citing his own experiences with the Prosecutor and Detective, and the Monster of Florence kept being referenced, but i had not then read the actual Monster of Florence book. I'm just starting the part where he gets into the shit with these guys.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 10:57 AM (LCRYB)

253
Adjoran, that Diane Sawyer/Amanda Knox informercial aired by ABC didn't convince you she's as innocent as a lamb?

Or at least convince you to buy her book??

Posted by: soothsayer at May 02, 2013 10:59 AM (vzLhi)

254 That '68 Skylark restore sounds like fun. I had a great aunt that had one.. beige it was. She hardly ever drove it. When she was put in a home in '82 the family asked if any us wanted to buy it. I was in college and had zero money and had to pass. That's how it goes.. Good luck on the restore!

Posted by: Yip at May 02, 2013 11:01 AM (/jHWN)

255 >>>Sounds like you are buying into the "innocence of Amanda Knox" meme. there's nothing to buy into. She's 100% innocent. You do know they caught and convicted the actual murderer, right? The thief who breaks into homes and is too grabby with girls and who threatens people with a knife just the size of the one which killed Meredith Kercher, right? You know he confessed to being there and all that? You know when he spoke to friends about being there he never mentioned Amanda Knox, but claimed some Italian male had killed Kercher, and then laughed at him, saying "Black man found at crime scene, black man guilty"? And such laughable claims as that? And you know his DNA and blood and fingerprints were found all over the apartment and inside Meredith Kercher? So assuming you know all that, I'm just a little curious why you believe Amanda Knox's presence is required in this rather simple tale of a drug-dealer/thief/drifter with a crush on Meredith Kercher and a history of breaking into apartments armed with a knife and threatening the owners with that knife raping the girl he had a crush on and then killing her? Oh yeah -- he also admitted fooling around with her too, that night, sexually, again, to a friend, not even a cop. Trying to explain why maybe some of his DNA just might turn up inside of her. Please explain to me why I need this ridiculous, baroque Satanic Sex Ritual explanation to explain what happened to Meredith Kercher.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 11:02 AM (LCRYB)

256 253 Ace,

Because "oppressive White something...and America should pay for Gitmo something...something something

//Moonbat

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 02, 2013 11:04 AM (LRFds)

257
Can you explain why the Kercher family is still not satisfied and why they still maintain Knox was involved?

It occurred to me that Kercher's sister heard things about Amanda Knox from her sister and perhaps knows the 'real Amanda' and how she behaved in Italy.

Posted by: soothsayer at May 02, 2013 11:07 AM (vanqS)

258 255Soothsayer,

Perhaps....also it is a lot easier to blame something "you know" than random chaos Sooth.

Evidence is evidence.

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 02, 2013 11:09 AM (LRFds)

259 That '68 Skylark restore sounds like fun. I had a great aunt that had one.. beige it was. She hardly ever drove it. When she was put in a home in '82 the family asked if any us wanted to buy it. I was in college and had zero money and had to pass. That's how it goes.. Good luck on the restore!

Posted by: Yip

***

Thanks. We are getting there. It runs. Now just need to replace some sick sheet metal.

Posted by: Tilikum The Killer Assault Whale at May 02, 2013 11:09 AM (uhftQ)

260 133. Sardinians don't move, they conquer

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 02, 2013 11:10 AM (9cjF1)

261 The only difference between what actually happened and what the hysterics who want to blame This Whorish Young American Girl (who's not a whore, btw) want to claim happened is this: The logical story of the crime is just that a drifter with a knife and a crush on Meredith Kercher broke into her home to steal her money and then, being surprised by her when she came home unexpectedly (she did in fact retire early that night), proceeded to rape and kill her. The Amanda-Knox-Is-A-Whore people admit that's what happened, mostly. That Rudy Guede, the black street-person with a knife, was there and so on. I mean, his blood is all over the place, and skin cells with his DNA are inside Kercher's vagina. The only difference is that those hysterics claim, for no particularly good reason, that Amanda Knox and her boyfriend "recruited" this black street person to do the crime because they had some kind of Satantic Sex Orgy fetish. None of this makes sense. I'm going to say something a bit bad about human nature: People usually do not date too far outside their race and class. Now, sometimes someone will date outside their race-- but still, not outside their class. Or the other way around. But not both. A middle-class, educated white girl, and her upper class, Richy-Rich white boyfriend, do not fucking recruit a penniless black jobless soon-to-be-homeless drifter/drug-dealer/thief into their Kinky Sex Games. It doesn't fucking happen. These people were not social peers. Rudy Guede is not in their social group. He's just not. He's a criminal and he's dirt poor, and he also lies a lot (like claiming to be American, despite having very poor English). He is also a well-known "botherer" of girls, one of those guys who gets into a night club and keeps pestering a girl for sex or a date no matter how many times she says "no." If that person claimed he didn't rape the girl, but that the girl consented to sex and then someone else killed her, you wouldn't believe it. You'd say, "Hey, look, I dont' want to be racist, but this guy is plainly of a lower social class and not likely to be considered a sexual opportunity for her." But when the prosectors claim (without any evidence!) that Amanda Knox looked at this shiftless drifter and said, "Oh yeah, we gots to get him in our Satantic Sex Game ritual," you're like, "Oh, that's perfectly plausible. I can totally see this middle-class whitebread girl wanting a walk on the wildside with a dirty semi-homeless petty crook who has 'episodes' where he blacks out and can't remember the things he's done in the interim. I can TOTALLY see her thinking that would be totally hot."

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 11:13 AM (LCRYB)

262

I have a pet theory that another reason the Italian DA and Media are so pushing the Amanda-Knox-is-a-nympho-whore story is because she is, in fact, really hot. Which makes the story all the more titillating. And the Italians love them some titillation.

Posted by: dan-O at May 02, 2013 11:18 AM (G+bgR)

263 259. Also in Italy the locals are hyper racist The klan has literally nothing on them I don't think I've ever hear a black not called by a slur

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 02, 2013 11:19 AM (ZfBzk)

264 >>>Can you explain why the Kercher family is still not satisfied and why they still maintain Knox was involved? >>>It occurred to me that Kercher's sister heard things about Amanda Knox from her sister and perhaps knows the 'real Amanda' and how she behaved in Italy. Um, and I think we should listen to the newtown families about gun safety. See the problem? You do not ask hyperemotional people directly affected by the tragedy for their Dispassionate Analysis. You don't need them as proxies. You can read the judge's report dismissing the conviction as being absurd. It's scathing, and it reveals what a crackpot, evidence-free thing this whole thing was. If you want to know why the Kercher family thinks she's guilty, consider this: Your daughter has just been murdered. You fly to Italy to collect the body. Your first hope is that it's not her body at all, that they made a mistake. But your second hope is that, if it is your daughter, they catch the guy. Now, you're distraught. But as soon as you get there, the prosecutor puts his arm around you and gives you the second-best news you could hear: "We know who did it." From that moment on he's your best friend, your champion, your source of support in a time of the most unbearable grief the human heart can experience. Now, a week after they throw Knox and her boyfriend in jail, the actual killer is found, but that's okay, because the prosecutor now has a new theory: See, the ones we have in jail are actually still guilty, because they recruited this homeless, jobless vagabond and thief to do the deal. SO now we have all THREE killers! And this is what your brain hears during the most massive shock and pain of your entire life. Think that you're thinking dispassionately and logically at this time? Think you're interested in reviewing new evidence later?

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 11:21 AM (LCRYB)

265 >>> Also in Italy the locals are hyper racist
The klan has literally nothing on them
I don't think I've ever hear a black not called by a slur

In almost every country outside of the USA, the locals are hyper racist.

Which is why it always cracks me up to listen to foreigners criticize the US for how racist we are.

Posted by: dan-O at May 02, 2013 11:22 AM (G+bgR)

266 >>> have a pet theory that another reason the Italian DA and Media are so pushing the Amanda-Knox-is-a-nympho-whore story is because she is, in fact, really hot. yeah and it's bizarre, because even in the Prosecutor's theory, Rudy Guede is the one who killed her. Amanda maybe "held her down." But no one wants to talk about him. Because he's not hot. He's not hot and white. He's not interesting. He's dirty and, I'm sorry, poor. He's of the criminal class. He's such a boring killer. We see this sort of killer every day. But the hot white girl who's gets off on seeing her friend sexually murdered-- now THAT'S an interesting murder story!

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 11:25 AM (LCRYB)

267 Oh now that dumbass troll that is obsessed with Knox is definitely going to show up tonight.

Posted by: Buzzion at May 02, 2013 11:32 AM (QakYa)

268 265 Oh now that dumbass troll that is obsessed with Knox is definitely going to show up tonight.

Posted by: Buzzion at May 02, 2013 03:32 PM (QakYa)

Is #247 him?

Posted by: Tami[/i][/b][/u][/s] at May 02, 2013 11:33 AM (X6akg)

269 I get tired of people who can't think logically and their catch arguments: I think he/she/it is guilty but didn't get a fair trial. I don't think he/she/it is guilty but knows who did it. There are too many unanswered questions!!1!!! [No, there's not. Just because you don't like the answers doesn't mean the questions or case should remain open.] etc. etc. etc.

Posted by: waldo at May 02, 2013 11:38 AM (sXWmd)

270 Those idiots who run all those anti-Knox websites remind me of the idiots who tried to crawl up Palin's womb. Fucking crazy....

Posted by: waldo at May 02, 2013 11:40 AM (sXWmd)

271 >>> I think he/she/it is guilty but didn't get a fair trial. I don't think he/she/it is guilty but knows who did it. I was just thinking about this in this context two days ago, the psychological safety of the "Middle Ground" position that makes no sense. People do try this all the time. I do it all the time. I try to find some way that feels safe because it gives a little to each "side." And yet, it's usually the position that has NO support for it whatsoever. It just feels safe, but in fact it is often the least reasonable position of all. I remember doing this with Clarence Thomas, trying to figure out a middle path where Thomas said something but Anita Hill misinterpreted it so they were both "right" and "wrong," the differences being in POV and intention and so forth. But eventually I realized it made no sense-- One person was straight-up lying.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 11:51 AM (LCRYB)

272 Amen, Ace. This is an incredible read. It's so convoluted you wonder how the author was able to somehow make sense of it. One tip. If you decide to read, don't get too crazed about remembering and following each and every nuance and character. Far too crazy and involved. Just read, enjoy, and kind of let it wash over you.

Posted by: RM at May 02, 2013 12:02 PM (gLg3N)

273 Ok, ok... so enough other 'rons have read this book and know of it... damn.. I guess I'll get it.. heh you guys

Posted by: Yip at May 02, 2013 12:14 PM (/jHWN)

274 There is a pretty funny Roberto Benigni movie called 'The Monster', or 'Il Mostro' about a schlub who's mistaken for a sex murderer. Here is a youtube link (not sure if there is a subtitled one out there): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNuz7Ks6ihQ

Posted by: ben h at May 02, 2013 12:36 PM (pSbfg)

275 No tami. I think the one I'm thinking of went by Tom Sawyer.

Posted by: Buzzion at May 02, 2013 12:46 PM (tTTKm)

276 Ace, you really can't find anything better than this to read? And you weren't even halfway finished yet? Wow, you're really savoring this one, aren't you?

Posted by: joe at May 02, 2013 01:12 PM (26e2V)

277 >>>Ace, you really can't find anything better than this to read? And you weren't even halfway finished yet? Wow, you're really savoring this one, aren't you? Huh? I started reading it two nights ago.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 03:23 PM (LCRYB)

278 you may be confusing this book with one I mentioned about amanda knox. while both books feature the same very dubious prosecutor/detective team, and same outrageous theories (satanic sex cults and organ trafficking!), this is a completely different book about a completely different crime that occurred before Amanda Knox was even born.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2013 03:24 PM (LCRYB)

279

Are you talking about Florencia 13 in Huntington Park?

Posted by: Huntington Park at May 02, 2013 07:51 PM (IwLRW)

280 Good book. BTW, the idiot Italian prosecutor in that cae is also the idiot Italian prosecutor who prosecuted/ persecuted Amanda Knox.

Posted by: Kasper in Atlanta at May 02, 2013 07:58 PM (MFUOp)

281 Went out on got the book on this recommendation. An amazing look into human's need to be right. Or at least better than you. I loved itÂ—best book I have read in a long time.

Posted by: Timberland Tales at May 13, 2013 03:42 PM (5pA5T)

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