Ace of Spades HQ

June 16, 2013

CAC'S Art Thread: defining the undefinable and the MONA
— CAC

It's been a while since I've posted anything about art. Tiny confession: I haven't visited a gallery or museum in a few months. I guess I need to get out there a bit more, what with LACMA dashing itself to pieces. But recently, I've run into a conundrum, one I've hinted at a few times before. I'm turning the floor to the horde to help me out here.

What is art?

Not what isn't art, which tends to be the immediate answer to this question. "I hate x" and "x is bullshit" feels great to say, but doesn't bring us any closer. Blame the relativists I suppose, but even if you ignored the last 125 years of art, you are still left with a surprisingly difficult question: what is art?
Apophasis permeates our definitions of things that "are", from the concept of art to the very nature of the universe. When people often respond to the question "what is art" by answering quickly "well I'll tell you what it isn't", you didn't do a damn bit of good in solving the initial problem.

If we can't define something on it's face, is it even something to begin with? Even if we are talking abstract concepts, those concepts need to have a meaning or a definition or at least a boundary to truly work in our heads. This all may seem silly, but (and here's where I go on a pseudo-tangent), describe "nothing" without relating it to something. Tough huh? Even the brightest minds on the earth have a problem hashing that one out:

Through the Wormhole S3E5 What is nothing... by costello74

If something fails to yield a solid, comprehensible description, why call it that? On the flipside, why even question it, or deride that which we call "not X" when we can't even describe what X is?

This of course takes a turn to the insane when we consider radical conceptual art that declares itself "anti-art" or "non-art". Or does it? Conceptually, would a truly "non-art" work still described loosely as art be a recognizable piece of "true" art, if we are going by opposites-of and inverted definitions? With this additional question in mind, in addition to the 45 minute video about nothing and the big one posed at the very beginning, I bring to you the Museum of Non-Visible Art, and it's manifesto, without any further comment:

A MANIFESTO: TO CLARIFY THE NON-VISIBLE
1.
Art itself is nothing.
All that matters is what is left.
The afterglow.
The ambition is to produce this.
We strive for an afterglow with no thing preceding.
A glow.
Phosphenes.
2.
The only surface worth painting is the mind of the viewer.
The viewing of art should not require eyes.
Art should be entoptic.
We strive to force meditation.
The prisonerÂ’s cinema.
Phosphenes.
3.
Art is without value until it faces the market.
The market purveys value.
Money is banal until it has been spent.
Money spent on art is money transformed.
Money spent is mourned.
This mourning is eased by art.
We strive to enhance mourning.
Mourning is a response to what is not there.
An afterglow.
4.
What you see does not matter.
What you have seen is everything.
All you truly buy is the afterglow.
It has value.
5.
You must pay more for the glow that has no thing.
Nothing before.
Pure after.
Phosphenes.
RULES FOR THE CREATION OF THE NON-VISIBLE
You shall not add to the banal. (You shall not build.)
You shall not litter the world with art. (You shall not make.)
What you have not made must be beautiful.
What you have not made must have value.
You must bring what you have not made to market.
(The market will give it value.)
You must give to the market absence.
(Money is banal until spent.)
You must offer the market anguish.
(What is spent is painful.)
You must make the market beautiful.
(Nothing beautiful without pain.)
You must increase the world behind the eyes.
The wreck of the Medusa.
It left us with phosphenes.
You must conjure them and sell them.
Only when you have done this are you one of us.
Â—Â—Â—Â—Â—Â—Â—Â—Â—Â—Â—Â—Â–

Posted by: CAC at 12:14 PM | Comments (203)
Post contains 715 words, total size 5 kb.

1 Hah!

Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at June 16, 2013 12:20 PM (Lu5ZN)

2 Boobies ?

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at June 16, 2013 12:20 PM (TQOZk)

3 No such thing as art.

Posted by: Big Ben at June 16, 2013 12:20 PM (I5Htn)

4 Why do we let government define what art is by them giving out grants for such art?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 16, 2013 12:21 PM (HReLM)

If you had Courtney Love sing that manifesto backed by banjos you would really have something.

Posted by: music without ears at June 16, 2013 12:22 PM (sTq3l)

6 A photo, sculpture, or mock-up of an AR-15 is pretty artsy.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 16, 2013 12:22 PM (eHIJJ)

7 So . . .

Art is . . .

a . . .

Seinfeld episode?

Posted by: filbert. Just filbert. at June 16, 2013 12:22 PM (7vimm)

8 >All that matters is what is left.

Take it to the bank, wingnuts.

Posted by: The Left at June 16, 2013 12:25 PM (vk6ov)

9 What is art? If you mean contemporary art, it's the shi**ies* pile you can put to canvas, metal, or stone.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 16, 2013 12:25 PM (eHIJJ)

10 Art is whatever an "artist" is pointing at when he speaks the word "art." At least these days.

Posted by: joncelli at June 16, 2013 12:26 PM (vh67+)

11 Art is tangible and succinct human expression, conveyed indirectly.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at June 16, 2013 12:26 PM (Lq5WC)

12 Whut's a LACMA?

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at June 16, 2013 12:28 PM (FvyJS)

13 Good art is when someone pays you for your effort.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 16, 2013 12:32 PM (HReLM)

14 Art is whatever crap the government is shelling out subsidies for.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 16, 2013 12:32 PM (j8IkD)

15 art is the ineluctable modality of the visible

Posted by: Stephen Dedalus at June 16, 2013 12:33 PM (omBWL)

16 I have true and amusing story about Art. Oh BTW Hah was first!'' I saw a viewing at an Art gallery. The Art looked like crap to me, but then again I have always been a Dali fan. Dumbass Demos were paying tens of thousands of dollars for crap. When the gallery closed,,the artists were amazed. They said "can you believe they bought all this crap? Lets break out the joints and coke and party!" I had to laugh.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at June 16, 2013 12:33 PM (Lu5ZN)

17 Speaking of the cinematic arts- Just saw "Man of Steel". Excellent movie. Well written. Great action. Bone-crunching fights that emphasize how destructive a super-being fight would be and underline the themes of the movie. Conservative (vaguely) and respectful of religion. What's not to like? A great time at the movies.

Posted by: Somewhat Sorry To Offend You at June 16, 2013 12:34 PM (ZR4Xh)

18 Art is a guy I work with.

Posted by: zsasz at June 16, 2013 12:35 PM (MMC8r)

19 Museum of Non-Visual Art?

Ahahaha!

BTW, are you attendees feeling down or sick? I have an exquisite bottle of placebos for you. Actually, it's not a bottle... it's an index card describing all the illnesses that could be cured by this magic bottle.

I could let you have it for, say, one meeellion dollars.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 16, 2013 12:35 PM (eHIJJ)

20 My Harley Davidson was parked in an art museum with local female teen models hanging all over it as part of an exhibition and fund raiser around 1987.

THAT was art.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at June 16, 2013 12:37 PM (4Mv1T)

21 ...at least that if no more, thought through my eyes.Â”

Posted by: Stephen Dedalus at June 16, 2013 12:37 PM (omBWL)

22 I could let you have it for, say, one meeellion dollars.

Kinda expensive for a bottle of booze, iff'n ya ask me.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at June 16, 2013 12:37 PM (FvyJS)

23 Art is: pulling off the perfect crime by successfully selling "art".

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 16, 2013 12:38 PM (eHIJJ)

24 Ultimately the definition of art is going to have a subjective dimension. It's not going to be a set of rules to apply. Everyone's got their own cloudlike outline within which is what they call "art." Some stuff is probably within anyone's cloud. That room with the light turning on and off on a timer is not in my "art" cloud, but if someone wants to call that art, I'd rather just say "well, there we differ" than argue about the definition of some word. The "art community" seems to have its own definition, which is something like "whatever excites the art community for some period of time." In that definition, submitting a commercial urinal to an art exhibition can qualify. OK, so that's your definition, whatever excites you. I'm not going to argue about definitions. I may roll my eyes, but definitions are not one of the things I find exciting about art.

Posted by: Splunge at June 16, 2013 12:38 PM (bKA83)

25 Additional Blond Agent: "Kinda expensive for a bottle of booze, iff'n ya ask me."

Oh the booze is long gone. They'll just be getting an index card describing what could be in it. But, shhh. Don't tell anyone.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 16, 2013 12:41 PM (eHIJJ)

26 A question for the Ages. I have no idea what art is, but I do think the bar keeps getting reset. And it has fallen prey to the "everybody gets a trophy" syndrome, too; I mean, not everyone's deeply felt and agonizingly brought forth attempt at expressing themselves is Art. Their own personal art, perhaps, but not Art. Stuff that is made to provoke and shock has its place, but I don't think it's Art. True art needs to have some beauty in it, something that is uplifting.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at June 16, 2013 12:42 PM (zrlmb)

27 Or, to be more accurate, art is whatever an "artist" who is interesting to other "artists" is pointing at when he speaks the word "art." Because Splunge has a good point.

Posted by: joncelli at June 16, 2013 12:42 PM (vh67+)

28 Went to LACMA a couple years ago. It seems to me to be an encapsulation of all that is California, that is, pointless. Exhibits are lame. Works are lame and the whole slapdash enterprises looks like a contrived back lot gallery

Posted by: Billypaintbrush at June 16, 2013 12:43 PM (xFmQB)

29 Art is nekkid wimmen.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 16, 2013 12:46 PM (JDIKC)

30 Well, this is what hangs over my desk.

http://twitpic.com/cxlkb9

But it hangs right next to this.

http://twitpic.com/cxlkhp

So yeah, the art thing is quite tricky. Discuss.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/s]akula_51 at June 16, 2013 12:46 PM (Vgn84)

31 >>>If you had Courtney Love sing that manifesto backed by banjos you would really have something.

I was thinking Yoko with a dozen bullfrogs.

Posted by: Fritz at June 16, 2013 12:47 PM (G9Mmf)

32 What is not art is a hotel in NYC with an Andy Warhol theme.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 16, 2013 12:47 PM (HReLM)

33 And a "gettin'-around jeep" is a nekkid man.

Empire of Jeff has it right.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 16, 2013 12:48 PM (eHIJJ)

34 I was thinking Yoko with a dozen bullfrogs. Posted by: Fritz at June 16, 2013 04:47 PM (G9Mmf) What do you have against bullfrogs?

Posted by: joncelli at June 16, 2013 12:48 PM (vh67+)

35 >>>What do you have against bullfrogs?

They elevate the experience to the level of art.

Posted by: Fritz at June 16, 2013 12:50 PM (G9Mmf)

36 The Hornes refused to hand over their raisins, calling the program Â“a tool for grower bankruptcy, poverty and involuntary servitude.Â” For refusing to go along with the scheme, the Hornes were fined $650,000, equivalent to the cash value of their raisins. They sued, arguing that the raisin law took their property without just compensation in violation of the Fifth AmendmentÂ’s prohibitionÂ’s against being Â“deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.Â” Despite plain language that only a lawyer could misunderstand, a district court judge upheld the cartel scheme, saying that by becoming farmers, the Hornes Â“voluntarily chose to send their raisins into the stream of interstate commerce,Â” thus placing them under government control. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said the Hornes filed their claim in the wrong court. The Obama administration took the side of the price-fixers, arguing the Hornes should have handed over their raisins and asked a different court for their money back, a process that would make it all but impossible to raise a constitutional challenge to the law. That extreme reasoning was too much for a principled liberal, and Justice Elena Kagan asked whether the court should send the case back to a lower court to determine whether the raisin program was either an unconstitutional taking or Â“the worldÂ’s most outdated law.Â” Mirabile dictu, all nine of the Supreme Court justices, who rarely all agree on anything, agreed on Monday to reverse the oft-reversed 9th Circuit and send the case back to be argued squarely on the merits of the Fifth Amendment claim, rather than on narrow jurisdictional issues.

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at June 16, 2013 12:53 PM (e8kgV)

37 I can't throw Adolf Galland up without a shout-out to Trautloff and Hartmann. http://twitpic.com/cxllbi

Posted by: [/i][/b][/s]akula_51 at June 16, 2013 12:53 PM (Vgn84)

38 Not "What is art?" but "Who is art?"

Posted by: andycanuck at June 16, 2013 12:55 PM (9+vDU)

Happy Father's Day, fellow morons.

Back in sophomore year if college I recall (very hazily, due to the combination of mind altering substances we'd consumed at the time, and the many years that have passed) having long tortured arguments on the Nature of the Universe. There were usually two variants- arguments on Ayn Rand and Objectivism; and arguments about God. (Is God so powerful he can make a rock that he could not lift?)

As silly as those discussions seem, they look like Nobel prize winning brilliance compared to the MONA Manifesto.

Posted by: Jim in Virginia at June 16, 2013 12:56 PM (3fsop)

40 akula_51 - Warbirds. Nice. They are art unto themselves.

Makes my hair stand up on my neck when they do low flyovers when there's an airshow in town.

Visual and auditory art.
Sublime.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at June 16, 2013 12:57 PM (4Mv1T)

41 Akula_51 should get a current gen GT500 with Carrol's autograph. Ditch the SVT Cobra.

I should get that Doolittle B-25B print with 4 Raider autographs framed.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 16, 2013 12:57 PM (HReLM)

42 Art is nekkid wimmen. *** http://binged.it/18ONkmu

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 12:59 PM (DPdf7)

43 Nice NDH-

Nagel did cover art for Duran Duran.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at June 16, 2013 01:01 PM (4Mv1T)

44 41 I should get that Doolittle B-25B print with 4 Raider autographs framed. Ooooh, I have that one, it's in storage. From Robert Taylor? I have several of his. Ditch the SVT Cobra Blasphemy. I suppose you want me to start wearing Jordache too? lol... Yeah, screw it. This is art too...lol And downstairs. http://twitpic.com/cw1ycq

Posted by: [/i][/b][/s]akula_51 at June 16, 2013 01:01 PM (Vgn84)

45 Nagel did cover art for Duran Duran. *** I had forgotten about that. I remember him from his Playboy work.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 01:04 PM (DPdf7)

46 Where is everyone? Still on the gun thread or off with their dads?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 01:06 PM (DPdf7)

47 Art is coherent, I'll tell you that much. I would also add that art should be a re-creation of something. So no, the piece with the two lightbulbs on a nail hanging up at UofM's gallery is not worth a damn.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at June 16, 2013 01:07 PM (dh83Q)

48 This happened about this time yesterday. Gun thread is tuckered out, too.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at June 16, 2013 01:07 PM (4Mv1T)

49 Watch Kenneth Clark's "Civilisation" and you will find out what "Art" is.

Posted by: Steff McKee at June 16, 2013 01:07 PM (4kHHz)

50 A woman's body is a work of art.

Posted by: Count de Monet at June 16, 2013 01:07 PM (7BV/9)

51 No its a print of a B-25B sideview art by Jay Ashurst. Has autographs by Cole, Saylor, Griffith, and Thatcher.

I will kinda give you a pass on your SVT Cobra. At least its not a Rousch.

And I should go and wash my 08 GT500.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 16, 2013 01:08 PM (HReLM)

52 And I'm glad James Franco is only fleecing people out of $16000.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at June 16, 2013 01:08 PM (dh83Q)

53 After reading that. I'd say that the answer to the question "What is Art?" must be:

Art is Phosphenes.

Posted by: West at June 16, 2013 01:11 PM (CU5es)

54 A woman's body is a work of art. *** Even fat women?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 01:13 PM (DPdf7)

55 51 I will kinda give you a pass on your SVT Cobra Heh heh heh...it almost looks stock...500ish rwhp. That's before the brake upgrade. I thought I was in love with the new ones, but I think the New Edge ended it for me. They look huge next to mine, all the new stuff does...sigh. No its a print of a B-25B sideview art by Jay Ashurst. Oh, very nice. That will be very cool. The one I have is actually by Trudgian come to find out...several countersigned as well. I can fill a 4br house with it, and we've downsized to a 2br apt post-kid going to college...sigh. I still have a ton to frame.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/s]akula_51 at June 16, 2013 01:13 PM (Vgn84)

56 So Sorry to Offend You, I hope you're right. A good Superman movie would be a minor miracle.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at June 16, 2013 01:13 PM (dh83Q)

57 This happened about this time yesterday. Gun thread is tuckered out, too. *** I suppose most morons do, indeed, have lives outside this little family.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 01:15 PM (DPdf7)

I an the wrong guy to try to define art (Privileged White European Male, and an engineer to boot) but here's a short one.

Visual art is the use of materials to provide aesthetic expression that has no intrinsic purpose or value, and that is either pleasing or thought provoking.

The Mona Lisa is art. Piss Christ is art. A cow skull with bluebonnets painted on it is art (I used to have one of those.) Some art is good, some is awful. The quality of art does not necessarily have any relationship to its value.

Posted by: Jim in Virginia at June 16, 2013 01:16 PM (3fsop)

59 17
Speaking of the cinematic arts-

Just saw "Man of Steel".

Excellent movie. Well written. Great action. Bone-crunching fights that emphasize how destructive a super-being fight would be and underline the themes of the movie.

Conservative (vaguely) and respectful of religion.

What's not to like?

A great time at the movies.

Posted by: Somewhat Sorry To Offend You at June 16, 2013 04:34 PM (ZR4Xh)

Agreed. Also I think at the end of the movie Snyder did perhaps an unintentional slam to Singer's Superman Returns.

Posted by: buzzion at June 16, 2013 01:16 PM (LI48c)

What do you call a guy with no arms and legs who hangs on the wall?

Art.

Posted by: Jim in Virginia at June 16, 2013 01:17 PM (3fsop)

61 This is why you lose people, CAC. It shouldn't be that difficult.

The elitists have successfully walled themselves off from the people, and left it to themselves to define the terms of art, and to keep regular people from being able to understand it, either because they lose interest, or they get lost in the jargon-rich language being used by the gate-keepers.

The basic definitions, used for centuries, can and should hold: art is truth and beauty, as reflected by the creative use of signs and symbols available to the artist.

That's it. Discussion over.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 16, 2013 01:20 PM (BeSEI)

62 Jim in Virginia: "What do you call a guy with no arms and legs who hangs on the wall? Art."

Nah. It's still me.

Posted by: Bob at June 16, 2013 01:20 PM (eHIJJ)

63 59 -

Zack Snyder is a hack. If this one really is a decent movie, it will be his first.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 16, 2013 01:22 PM (BeSEI)

64 Art at its root is technique; it is a defined technique for creating objects, whether these things exist primarily in time (as music does) and whether or not they are transient (as an ice sculpture is) or permanent (as statues are intended to be.)

Art is an act which makes thought, which is itself without physical form, become physical. Art shows intent; this is the primary reason why John Cage did such silliness for figuring out all of the lengths of the rests in 4'33" - if he had just sat down and played nothing, or had forgotten what to play at random (for instance) you could not argue intent.

Painting, photography, and the pictoral arts make the transient memory of a sight in the human mind take a physical form. It is most easy to think there is nothing happening here because what is depicted is already physical. However, Landscape Art (for those that do not know) is notorious for embellishing or outright making up large parts of their landscapes to fit the combination of memory and imagination hovering before the eyes of the painter.

The so-called hard arts, sculpture, architecture and other forms of art that are at minimum in relief and at maximum full manipulation of space, are very obvious: David for instance is a thought, an imaginary vision of the great warrior and king of the Hebrews. It is made real through the art of sculpture.

Music is not obvious, but if we recall that music when experienced is physical (sound) the connection is obvious. Music is more transient, but it also can be captured and replayed and in its transience may be very easy to reproduce many times over for those who enjoy that art. Written music gives a depiction of the end result of the process, as crude as it is, which can allow an experienced musician to rekindle the thought from which the song proceeds and thus fully recreate the result the written music depicts.

Poetry and writing use language to literally either turn ideas into sounds or written/printed words.

It is possible to create other arts, but there is a hierarchy of value in art, fine art being the highest art. The controversy (in general) is not so much that silly pranks starting with the Dadaists are not art, but rather, that they are not fine art. Grafitti is without any argument, art, but the process and the thought behind it mark it as one of the meanest arts. However, Graffiti artists probably have some serious talent if they can make something moderately beautiful with such crude implements.

The other important part about art is the distinction between Autopoesis and Allopoeisis. True art is allopoesis: the creating of something other than one's self. Graffiti fits this: but often modern so-called high art does not. In fact, the problem with high art is that we are taught 'self expression' - which means you are not certain to engage in allopoesis at all; this distinction is not held up and thus the target is often missed. More ignorant artists like Howard Finster are better at allopoesis than most art-trained folk are.

Posted by: RiverC at June 16, 2013 01:26 PM (KTytI)

65 63 59 -

Zack Snyder is a hack. If this one really is a decent movie, it will be his first.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 16, 2013 05:22 PM (BeSEI)

Got to remember that Chistopher Nolan is the producer. It seems to me like Snyder can do well when he's got someone to control him. So its not his vanity project of Suckerpunch or his film of love Watchmen. I won't call it perfect and there were a few bits I think they could have done better like Krypton's sun not looking red and merely referring to our sun being a younger star. But I think its a good movie.

Posted by: buzzion at June 16, 2013 01:27 PM (LI48c)

66 The other important part about art is the distinction between Autopoesis and Allopoeisis. *** What does hair loss have to do with it?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 01:27 PM (DPdf7)

67 Autopenis? Is this going to be another Weiner thread?

Posted by: [/i][/b][/s]akula_51 at June 16, 2013 01:28 PM (Vgn84)

68 65 -

I hope so, and that probably is the source of his problem: having nobody to tell him to knock it off when he gets cute. Or having someone remind him his movies are supposed to more or less have a point.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 16, 2013 01:28 PM (BeSEI)

69 Polanyi argues that what essentially defines art over and against public mental masturbation is that a work of art can exist cohesively and fully without reference to its creator. This is allopoesis.

This totally goes against the modern artist who is most concerned with his self promotion (partly out of economic necessity) even in countries where the government offers huge endowments. Reality: Whether the money comes from the government or private buyers, it's still self-promotion.

Posted by: RiverC at June 16, 2013 01:32 PM (KTytI)

70 There's nothing like a manifesto....

Posted by: Booby Ahr at June 16, 2013 01:36 PM (zmZ2x)

71 I can't define art, but I know it when I see it.

Posted by: Ronster at June 16, 2013 01:37 PM (xAU1K)

72 69 -

Sorry, if you have to use words like "allopoesis" to describe it, you're already on the wrong track.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 16, 2013 01:39 PM (BeSEI)

73 RiverC said it perfectly! And I reckon fine art is what I was trying to get at with Art vs art. I love his mention of graffiti....I'm more willing to consider that Modern Art than 90 percent of what is in galleries today, in terms of expression, especially. And of course I don't mean gang tags and such, and they ought not to do it on private property, but some of those kids are obviously gifted, and to do all that with a dang can of spray paint is far more impressive to me than Piss Christ. In terms of shock-type art, I am not impressed. They risk nothing by doing it in the US. I respect the DJs who do shock radio more, because they are at least risking their jobs and jail time. (Not saying I approve, just saying that the Christ Piss crowd are poseurs.)

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at June 16, 2013 01:42 PM (zrlmb)

74 Tonight, the BBC begins some big 10 part historical drama. However, I have this fear that being the BBC, there will be no titties. At least with The Tudors there were at a minimum 3 pairs of titties per episode.

http://goo.gl/CsqSJ

Posted by: Waldo at June 16, 2013 01:46 PM (RZwdH)

75 Autotitties. Is that a word? Can I use it? Too, late! Autotitties.

Posted by: Waldo at June 16, 2013 01:47 PM (RZwdH)

76
Art is defined as my pinching a loaf at the Metropolitan Museum and then having critics grade it for color, consistency, and theme.

Posted by: Al Gork at June 16, 2013 01:47 PM (1lQzY)

77 From 2007 I did ruminate upon this self same conundrum of what is art.

http://annapuna.blogspot.com/2007/09/what-is-art.html

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 16, 2013 01:48 PM (HReLM)

78 Art is the manifestation of Ã¦sthetic beauty.

Posted by: Psychedelicat at June 16, 2013 01:49 PM (Vk2pI)

79 Posted by: BurtTC at June 16, 2013 05:28 PM (BeSEI) Agree 100%. Snyder is a total hack and it shows when he gets full creative control. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how anyone could greenlight Sucker Punch.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at June 16, 2013 01:52 PM (dh83Q)

80 Tonight, the BBC begins some big 10 part historical drama. However, I have this fear that being the BBC, there will be no titties. At least with The Tudors there were at a minimum 3 pairs of titties per episode. *** Looks interesting

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 01:52 PM (DPdf7)

81 Did someone mention huge endowments?

Posted by: Anthony Weiner at June 16, 2013 01:52 PM (73sEI)

82 Even fat women?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 05:13 PM (DPdf7)

Yes. Even fat women can be beautiful. I'm serious.

Posted by: Count de Reubens-Monet at June 16, 2013 01:52 PM (7BV/9)

83 My longer art post disappeared. So my short definition is art is a depiction of the beautiful that elicits a positive emotional response-- which can range from subtle to breathtaking.

Posted by: L, elle at June 16, 2013 01:53 PM (0PiQ4)

84 Polanyi argues that what essentially defines art over and against public mental masturbation is that a work of art can exist cohesively and fully without reference to its creator. This is allopoesis. This totally goes against the modern artist who is most concerned with his self promotion (partly out of economic necessity) even in countries where the government offers huge endowments. Reality: Whether the money comes from the government or private buyers, it's still self-promotion. Posted by: RiverC at June 16, 2013 05:32 PM (KTytI) Perhaps then, art must stand on its own and be its own relevance?

Posted by: Psychedelicat at June 16, 2013 01:53 PM (Vk2pI)

85 /// Tonight, the BBC begins some big 10 part historical drama. However, I have this fear that being the BBC, there will be no titties. At least with The Tudors there were at a minimum 3 pairs of titties per episode. /// I love the HQ

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at June 16, 2013 01:53 PM (dh83Q)

86 Tammy al-Thor: "(Not saying I approve, just saying that the Christ Piss crowd are poseurs.)"

So true. When they advance "art" like "Mohamed Figurine in Porcine Bunghole", then they'll be "edgy".

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 16, 2013 01:54 PM (eHIJJ)

87 Various art styles used for the anime Record of Lodoss War.
http://annapuna.blogspot.com/2008/11/lodoss-art.html

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 16, 2013 01:55 PM (HReLM)

88 Yes. Even fat women can be beautiful. I'm serious. *** http://bit.ly/17eCVzY

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 01:56 PM (DPdf7)

89 Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at June 16, 2013 05:42 PM (zrlmb) I agree, RiverC's post put the finger on what I was thinking.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at June 16, 2013 01:56 PM (dh83Q)

90 Art (especially literature, which is in fact art) is what separates men from brutes. Fortunately, it has been abolished. Forward! Later.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at June 16, 2013 01:56 PM (5PQkc)

91 Word Association to the pic: Martian Ball Sack.

Posted by: sTevo at June 16, 2013 01:58 PM (OcVOw)

92 http://bit.ly/17eCVzY

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 05:56 PM (DPdf7)

Schwing!!!!

Posted by: Count de Reubens-Monet at June 16, 2013 02:02 PM (7BV/9)

93 Schwing!!!! *** I see FUPAs.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 02:04 PM (DPdf7)

94 http://my.execpc.com/~kmknapp/images/annunciation-collier.jpg

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 16, 2013 02:04 PM (HReLM)

95 88 -

For some reason, I am suddenly hungry for mashed potatoes.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 16, 2013 02:06 PM (BeSEI)

96 For some reason, I am suddenly hungry for mashed potatoes. *** LOL

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 02:07 PM (DPdf7)

97 BurtTC,

You don't have to understand allopoesis to create art. Self-reproduction is not art. Period. If you're criticizing me for using an advanced term, you're essentially defining an anti-elitist stance towards art, one that flies in the face of 1000's of years of art which has spanned the range from common to elite, from folk to fine.

The central and essential art is poetry.

Posted by: RiverC at June 16, 2013 02:09 PM (KTytI)

98 Here you go BurtTC
http://idol.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/352979

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 16, 2013 02:09 PM (HReLM)

99 What is art?

I think that's like the question "What is porn?"

I can't define it, but I know what I like.

Posted by: Methos knows it when he sees it, too at June 16, 2013 02:10 PM (hO9ad)

100 Art is that which would not exist but for the choices made by its creator.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at June 16, 2013 02:10 PM (xjpRj)

101 I know it when I see it.

Posted by: Jimmy Hoffa's Ghost at June 16, 2013 02:13 PM (aDwsi)

102 I like junk yard art. You take a bunch of crap, weld it together and presto. Art.

Posted by: Ronster at June 16, 2013 02:14 PM (xAU1K)

103 I saw some pretty big rocks today. Also, some big cairns (piles of rocks) and lots of old stone walls. Didn't photograph a one. I did get some nice blue flag iris and a moose, though.

Posted by: fluffy at June 16, 2013 02:14 PM (z9HTb)

104 97 -

I'm not criticizing you. What I am saying is that if your terminology is not used by the people, you are doing something to obscure its meaning, thus excluding the people from the discussion.

You NEED the people to be able to understand art, WITHOUT them needing to learn the terminology. If the elitists can't do that, then essentially the equation goes like this: the elitists left the people; the people did not leave the elitists.

If what you are doing CANNOT be understood by the people, it's not art.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 16, 2013 02:15 PM (BeSEI)

105 Ronster - http://www.carhenge.com/

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 16, 2013 02:15 PM (HReLM)

106 WTF do you people want?

Posted by: Art at June 16, 2013 02:15 PM (9+vDU)

107 Art? Art CAN be anything. The question that we should be asking, is it good art?

For the record, I am a cartoonist, proof is in my nic.

Posted by: akornzombie at June 16, 2013 02:15 PM (y4j9h)

108 A woman's body is a work of art.

*pats self on back*

Posted by: God, twirling a galaxy on His index finger nonchalantly at June 16, 2013 02:15 PM (hO9ad)

109 Art is at nwylie.com.

Posted by: Gary at June 16, 2013 02:16 PM (wJqvw)

110 And Dear or Alive 5 continues with the fan-service.
http://tinyurl.com/lhrqnex

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 16, 2013 02:17 PM (HReLM)

111 #99

There is a way to define pornography as well. The 'what is art' shell game (like the 'what is porn' shell game) is intentional. If you sincerely believe that neither can be defined - which I doubt you do -you've been misled.

The whole shell game started with the elitists taking art they didn't like and saying it 'wasn't art'. What they meant really was 'this isn't fine art'. But, for whatever reason, it had to be an either/or distinction that was untenable. Dadaism was art, of course, but it was not fine art worth thousands of dollars. Recognizing that most of their buyers didn't have a thought in their head to determine the intent behind and the final result of the work, they made a guess (a boldly insulting guess) that they could sell urinals to these people and they would buy it as fine art.

Nobody of course has gone beyond this expression (anti-art it might be called.) Watch Bowden's video 'Against the Turner Prize' to see more about this. The greatest artists may in fact be unknown, their fame and moniker unnecessary to recommend the greatness of their thought and craft.

Posted by: RiverC at June 16, 2013 02:19 PM (KTytI)

112 Art is that which would not exist but for the choices made by its creator.
Posted by: BeckoningChasm
------------------------------

Of course the snobbish elite will insist that John Cage's 4'33" is art. The reason I do not understand that, is that I am 'narrow and provincial'.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at June 16, 2013 02:19 PM (aDwsi)

113

If what you are doing CANNOT be understood by the people, it's not art.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 16, 2013 06:15 PM (BeSEI)

No... if it can't be understood... its MODERN Art...

Drafting... Talent without inspiration...

Modern art... Inspiration with no talent...

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 16, 2013 02:19 PM (lZBBB)

114
Have to wonder, if one were to tastefully frame a sheet of quality white paper--blank--and kick start it would these dumbasses pay money for it?

My bet is yes.

Posted by: irongrampa at June 16, 2013 02:20 PM (SAMxH)

115 Art.

What is a man with no arms and no legs hanging on a wall?

Posted by: Carnac on Jeopardy at June 16, 2013 02:20 PM (hO9ad)

116 Oh, and one more thing: Autotitties.

Posted by: akornzombie at June 16, 2013 02:20 PM (y4j9h)

117 And Dear or Alive 5 continues with the fan-service.
http://tinyurl.com/lhrqnex

Wasn't she originally in Ninja Gaiden?

Posted by: Methos couldn't find the gaming thread at June 16, 2013 02:21 PM (hO9ad)

118 Anna. That is some art. Carhenge. Heh.

Posted by: Ronster at June 16, 2013 02:21 PM (xAU1K)

119 113 -

Agreed. Which is another way of saying, modern art, isn't.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 16, 2013 02:22 PM (BeSEI)

120 Hey Irongrampa!

If you framed the narrative behind why the page is white, that it is 'the unsullied expression of creativity unfettered by the concepts imposed by our capitalistic heteronormative cis-gendered society.'

Then yes the nattering nabobs will buy it.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 16, 2013 02:22 PM (HReLM)

121 So true. When they advance "art" like "Mohamed Figurine in Porcine Bunghole", then they'll be "edgy". Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 16, 2013 05:54 PM (eHIJJ) Exactly! And maybe it's not exactly art, more along the lines of a mixed media political statement, but at least they will have done something that took some guts.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at June 16, 2013 02:23 PM (zrlmb)

122 I can, maybe, start a list of necessary conditions: - the artist is skilled in the medium - the work requires significant effort - the work "jolts" more than one person who is not an artist in the same medium or genre, - the work "jolts" the same (non-artist) person repeatedly over an extended period of time - the work is able to express different things at different times to different people, - the artistic nature of the work cannot be described in words.

Posted by: sinmi at June 16, 2013 02:23 PM (M+jLM)

123 Norman Rockwell?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 02:24 PM (DPdf7)

124 If you framed the narrative behind why the page is white, that it is 'the unsullied expression of creativity unfettered by the concepts imposed by our capitalistic heteronormative cis-gendered society.'

It's racism, straight up.

Posted by: Jeneane Garafollo, art critic at June 16, 2013 02:26 PM (hO9ad)

125 Hammer,

It is, actually, only because art elitists in our era are so narrow minded as to not recognize the profundity of silence. His method of creating these rests is pure silly bunk (like most 'technique' in pomo art) but one of the only ways these dimwit liberals could possibly sit an listen to silence for any period of time and contemplate the background noise that always blends into whatever piece of music is played live.

Unfortunately, 4'33" is superfluous as once you recognize what's going on, you don't need Cage's recording. But maybe that's the brilliance; Cage makes himself unnecessary.

4'33" is unfortunately (in my mind) still part of the unfortunate and destructive trend of anti-art: his shenanigans for creating the rests are part of a trick played on an overeducated but unimaginative audience.

Posted by: RiverC at June 16, 2013 02:26 PM (KTytI)

126 Methos. Think she is showing too much skin to be from that game.

Then there is Taki from Soul Calibur
http://tinyurl.com/ltv4l8e

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 16, 2013 02:26 PM (HReLM)

127

Have to wonder, if one were to tastefully frame a sheet of quality white paper--blank--and kick start it would these dumbasses pay money for it?

My bet is yes.

Posted by: irongrampa at June 16, 2013 06:20 PM (SAMxH)

Well.... there is my Work... called 'the Way Southern Whites Want the World"....

Posted by: Lefty Artist... at June 16, 2013 02:28 PM (lZBBB)

128 Art is that which would not exist but for the choices made by its creator. Posted by: BeckoningChasm Fair enough, but then what's the difference between art and crafts? Because even with a distinction between Fine Art and art, there is still the whole craft thing. I have seen work done by paper crafters that is stunning and art as you define it, and but I am not yet able to consider it art. Ditto quilting, pottery, glasswork, even perfumery. Maybe I need to rethink my definitions.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at June 16, 2013 02:28 PM (zrlmb)

129 Art: Vermeer
Not Art: Andy Warhol

Posted by: Mike Hammer at June 16, 2013 02:29 PM (aDwsi)

130 #114

If the thought that the work is making physical is misanthropic contempt, it is as much art as objects created by unguided machine. That is to say, not very much.

Though to be honest, it's certainly more efficient to just leave the canvases blank rather than painting complex schemes that horrify and pervert.

Modernity: Efficient!

Posted by: RiverC at June 16, 2013 02:29 PM (KTytI)

131 art is that guy who sells discount sport coats "Hey, that's a good looking sport coat."

Posted by: Jones in CO at June 16, 2013 02:30 PM (8sCoq)

132 Warhol is art but again, not profound in its thought nor excellent in its execution.

The leveling instinct - absolute equality - destroys the hierarchy of values necessary to make sense of art and requires a binary test which is impossible to separate from personal preference.

Equality is a moral evil most of the time. Only in limited circumstances can it be made to serve the good.

Posted by: RiverC at June 16, 2013 02:31 PM (KTytI)

133 Hey ..., that 'Through the Wormhole' thing looks like an out-and-out rip-off of Kasimir Malevich, Black Square : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasimir_Malevich

Posted by: Mike Hammer at June 16, 2013 02:32 PM (aDwsi)

134 One possible definition of good art is - does it speak to you? Does the piece of art, no matter the media or medium, convey thoughts and feelings without you having to ask the artist what it means; then its good art.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 16, 2013 02:33 PM (HReLM)

135

My mind is too simple and shallow to appreciate the art/non-art talk above.

Posted by: Mo the Girl at June 16, 2013 02:34 PM (2f1Rs)

136 Posted by: sinmi at June 16, 2013 06:23 PM (M+jLM) I mostly agree, but I don't think jolting need be a qualifier, in fact if the point is to jolt or shock I think it should be considered theatre. And I don't think it need take along time or significant effort, but I'd say it almost always does. Andy Warhol to me is graphic design not art. Lots of modern art would be better described as such, in my opinion.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at June 16, 2013 02:36 PM (zrlmb)

137 I once walked past a gallery and, in the window, was an encaustic painting of solid yellow. There were different hues of yellow and I felt like it was sunshine enveloping me. I admire the fine art that is in the Cummer Gallery nearby, and some of it has made me cry, but I've never wanted to own a piece of art as much as I did that solid yellow encaustic. The piece was $2.4k and I couldn't afford it but it's been almost 10 years and I wish I had purchased it still. To many it would just be a blob of yellow, but I loved it.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 02:38 PM (DPdf7)

138 I like Matisse. I like color.

Posted by: waldo at June 16, 2013 02:38 PM (RZwdH)

139 My mind is too simple and shallow to appreciate the art/non-art talk above. Posted by: Mo the Girl at June 16, 2013 06:34 PM (2f1Rs) Not at all!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at June 16, 2013 02:38 PM (zrlmb)

140 Vargus pin-up girls. Art.

Posted by: Ronster at June 16, 2013 02:38 PM (xAU1K)

141 One possible definition of good art is - does it speak to you? Does the piece of art, no matter the media or medium, convey thoughts and feelings without you having to ask the artist what it means; then its good art. *** this make sense to me.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 02:39 PM (DPdf7)

142 Andrew Wyeth- Love his work. Maybe somewhat pedestrian by some standards, but my favorite, hands down.

The museum where I had my hog draped with models for the black tie fundraiser many moons ago has the largest and the most complete collection of Andrew Wyeth's watercolors owned by any public museum in the world.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at June 16, 2013 02:39 PM (4Mv1T)

143

OT:

Back in DC for the next week....and hell, the transmission in my car is doing some decidedly non transmissiony things. Sigh. Thankfully I have the bucket truck, so I can work, and get my car in the shop. The car's been good to me, and I've driven it all over the east, including Canadia...but if the price tag to fix the tranny exceeds about 2k, I'll junk it, and buy a decent used truck, or van.

Grrr. More expenses....just what I needed!

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at June 16, 2013 02:40 PM (qoQi/)

144 You can never fix a tranny, they just blow and blow and blow and then die.

Posted by: lincolntf at June 16, 2013 02:42 PM (ZshNr)

145

139 That makes me feel better.

Posted by: Mo the Girl at June 16, 2013 02:43 PM (2f1Rs)

146 One possible definition of good art is - does it speak to you? Does the piece of art, no matter the media or medium, convey thoughts and feelings without you having to ask the artist what it means; then its good art.
Posted by: Anna Puma
-------------------------------

Yes. Art should answer questions about life..., not leave one with questions.
The latter stuff is rightly referred to as 'plop art'

Posted by: Mike Hammer at June 16, 2013 02:46 PM (aDwsi)

147 As it should, Mo. Your mind is neither simple nor shallow! I myself really don't get all that het up about art, but I like the discussion!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at June 16, 2013 02:48 PM (zrlmb)

148 It's Rachel, who you could play as in the game of the year (whatever it was called) version of NG.

http://tinyurl.com/lp9xh9f

Though that doesn't detract from your comment on fan service (See the infamous commercial for NG2).

Posted by: Methos at June 16, 2013 02:49 PM (hO9ad)

149 Yes. Art should answer questions about life..., not leave one with questions. See now, I dunno. Sometimes I just like to look at something because it's beautiful. I don't need any question answered or life's mysteries revealed, it's just purty. And as long as the question isn't basically WTF?! I have no problem with something that leaves one questioning...I'm just not sure that something whose purpose is to make one question anything is art so much as it is performance of some kind.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at June 16, 2013 02:51 PM (zrlmb)

150 DHS surfs my art collection routinely.

Posted by: sTevo at June 16, 2013 02:51 PM (L7std)

151 When contrasting art with non-art, I notice that art is uplifting and the other stuff is transgressive.

Posted by: Mindy mostly lurks at June 16, 2013 02:53 PM (Zn5z9)

152

You can never fix a tranny, they just blow and blow and blow and then die.

Mine has a sad. It's not shifting properly, it's whining, feels like it's slipping too. I could probably put a used tranny in....(600 bucks plus installation), rebuilt tranny, (1200 bucks plus installation), or new tranny (2000 bucks plus installation).

No used....that's just asking for trouble. Rebuilt might be the way to go, since my car is an '04, and I can't see justifying the expense of a new tranny for a ten year old car.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at June 16, 2013 02:55 PM (qoQi/)

153 My balls

Posted by: are art. at June 16, 2013 02:58 PM (g5YAm)

154 Posted by: Mike Hammer at June 16, 2013 06:29 PM (aDwsi)

this.

also

Art: Caravaggio
Not Art: Jackson Pollack

Posted by: NCwoof at June 16, 2013 03:00 PM (aUQgu)

155 I'm willing to be generous and define all creative endeavor as art. It's just that the overwhelming majority of it is bad art.

Posted by: obladioblada at June 16, 2013 03:01 PM (w6/EI)

156
Art is a huge granite rock perched on stilts.

Posted by: soothsayer at June 16, 2013 03:01 PM (xIzGn)

157 Not Art: Jackson Pollack Posted by: NCwoof at June 16, 2013 07:00 PM (aUQgu) Some of my kids diapers reminded me of Jackson Pollack

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 16, 2013 03:02 PM (jE38p)

158 I'm willing to be generous and define all creative endeavor as art. It's just that the overwhelming majority of it is bad art. Posted by: obladioblada at June 16, 2013 07:01 PM (w6/EI) As good a way to put it as anything! Mindy, I had to look up transgressive, and I totally agree.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at June 16, 2013 03:03 PM (zrlmb)

159 NCwoof-- That anyone ever seriously perused a Pollock brings into question the idea that mankind is nature's crowning triumph.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at June 16, 2013 03:03 PM (aDwsi)

160 Art is whatever challenges your senses with pleasure. It's not the same for everyone.

Posted by: polynikes at June 16, 2013 03:04 PM (9ek7+)

161 No used....that's just asking for trouble. Rebuilt might be the way to go, since my car is an '04, and I can't see justifying the expense of a new tranny for a ten year old car. Posted by: Sticky Wicket
-------------------------

So..., I should probably forget about a new one for my '78 Cutlass.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at June 16, 2013 03:05 PM (aDwsi)

162
remember that air freshener from the '80's with the three girls in bikinis HAULIN ASS?

that's art

Posted by: soothsayer at June 16, 2013 03:07 PM (KwX0v)

163

I can't define art , but I think I saw it. It was a sculpture at St. Louis Art Museum. The Piece was called "Despair." The sculpture was only half of a man sculpted out of the marble.

I found myself wanting to jump to help free him from the stone. I wept. Guess it portended something.

Posted by: olddog in mo at June 16, 2013 03:07 PM (AzqLt)

164 What is art? I don't know, but I know it when I see it.

Posted by: Zombie Justice Potter Stewart at June 16, 2013 03:07 PM (+XVQe)

165 Art is when God speaks to us through man.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 16, 2013 03:09 PM (WW8xK)

166 A painting of Obama that is so realistic that it could be mistaken for a photograph is not art to me. It's a skill to reproduce a photo by paint but its not necessarily art.

Posted by: polynikes at June 16, 2013 03:09 PM (pyh5u)

167 Richard Harris shouting is art.

Posted by: The Moobs Have Won at June 16, 2013 03:10 PM (rCS6C)

168 I can't define art , but I think I saw it. It was a sculpture at St. Louis Art Museum. The Piece was called "Despair." The sculpture was only half of a man sculpted out of the marble. *** A Rodin http://bit.ly/13Sb4PR

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 03:11 PM (DPdf7)

169 I have a two word definition: extraordinary communication.

Posted by: rfichoke at June 16, 2013 03:11 PM (e1Evs)

170 @165 CBD. Very nice. Especially if/when you experience it.

Posted by: olddog in mo at June 16, 2013 03:12 PM (AzqLt)

171 I make most of my living as a commercial artist and illustrator and find most discussions of 'what art is' to be ultimately pointless. It's like asking how people feel and think about sex or religion. Some opinions are more informed and insightful than others.

I have learned an important truth doing what I do, one that emerged when I first started doing exhibition-worthy fine art--in my case, paintings. Art isn't what's hanging on the wall or standing in the round; art is what takes place in the mind and the heart of the person experiencing that painting or sculpture (or film or piece of music). I don't compose a painting. I compose the experience.

The greatest thing an artist can achieve is when his or her work generates the emotion of elevation in an audience. I love El Greco paintings for this reason. Titian was one of El Greco's contempories (or a near-contemporary), and no one can argue that Titian was the better stylist, the better colorist and draughtsman, with better mastery of the materials and greater command of composition. However, a Titian painting does not make me feel closer to God. El Greco does.

Posted by: troyriser at June 16, 2013 03:12 PM (ptcFO)

172 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 07:11 PM (DPdf7)

And one of his best.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 16, 2013 03:12 PM (WW8xK)

173 Posted by: olddog in mo at June 16, 2013 07:12 PM (AzqLt)

You did.

Amazing...isn't it!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 16, 2013 03:13 PM (WW8xK)

174 Posted by: troyriser at June 16, 2013 07:12 PM (ptcFO)

Send your design for the AOSHQ t-shirt to:

nynjmeet at optimum dot com.

I am completely serious.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 16, 2013 03:15 PM (WW8xK)

175

So..., I should probably forget about a new one for my '78 Cutlass.

Sure you should....

Hang on a sec....couple of cute young bikini clad women at the pool need looking at.

......Ok, I'm back. Yes you should, but my car is my work vehicle, and as many miles as I put on it, something else, (and probably even more expensive), will fail. Rebuilt will work for me, if it will keep my car on the road....if not, I really need a van or truck for work anyway.

Maybe I should just run the car into a telephone pole just hard enough to total it. (Haha, Bob from NSA! I'm just joshing, no reason to use my various web cams at home to spy on me!).

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at June 16, 2013 03:15 PM (qoQi/)

176 Posted by: troyriser at June 16, 2013 07:12 PM (ptcFO)

Interesting that you mentioned El Greco.

I can stand in front of one of his views of Toledo for an hour. It is as close to perfection as I have ever experienced (at least the one with the blue-dominant palette).

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 16, 2013 03:17 PM (WW8xK)

177

@168 NDH. I have been looking for that for years. Thank you so much.

Funny, I grew up in Cairo, Il. where there was a replica of Rodin's "The Hewer." Liked his "Thinker", too.

Posted by: olddog in mo at June 16, 2013 03:17 PM (AzqLt)

178 Micklelson at the 18th, one shot back. Do or die. Again

Posted by: Craig Poe at June 16, 2013 03:18 PM (BVkEs)

179 @168 NDH. I have been looking for that for years. Thank you so much. *** You spoke of it so beautifully that I had to see it for myself. It is an emotion-evoking piece.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 03:19 PM (DPdf7)

180 Most art is selling junk and making lots of money to people that think they are very smart.

Posted by: Jukin at June 16, 2013 03:20 PM (WGm5T)

181 Hi, Tammy! Hope you and Thor are well!

Posted by: Mindy mostly lurks at June 16, 2013 03:21 PM (yPCFL)

182 Send your design for the AOSHQ t-shirt to:

nynjmeet at optimum dot com.

I am completely serious.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 16, 2013 07:15 PM (WW8xK)

What's the deadline for the design? I'd love to submit an AoSHQ design, but I'm finishing up the illustrations for a children's book right now and the publisher isn't known for patience, so don't have minute to spare for another project for at least a month.

Posted by: troyriser at June 16, 2013 03:24 PM (ptcFO)

183 Micklelson at the 18th, one shot back. Do or die. Again Posted by: Craig Poe at June 16, 2013 07:18 PM (BVkEs) Valiant try but it is gonna be a hell of a put to tie

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 16, 2013 03:24 PM (jE38p)

184 173Posted by: olddog in mo at June 16, 2013 07:12 PM (AzqLt)

You did.

Amazing...isn't it!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 16, 2013 07:13 PM (WW8xK)

Like nothing I ever felt before. I was so moved. Wife thought I was a nut.

Posted by: olddog in mo at June 16, 2013 03:24 PM (AzqLt)

185 1956-1966 Cadillac Eldorado convertible.

JMHO

Posted by: Jukin at June 16, 2013 03:32 PM (WGm5T)

186 I like turtles!

Posted by: sonnyspats at June 16, 2013 03:33 PM (N3Al8)

187 Here's what I've distilled. The question "what is art?" is unimportant. It's like the question: "What is something that would meet the minimal criteria for 'a machine' --ultimately definitional, semantic, and I do think unimportant. The only question that matters, vis a vis art is: "What is good art?" By adding another variable, it would seem that you would increase the complexity of the definition. Actually, I think this simplifies and clarifies things. I don't give a crap for all the bad art in the world, or the gray region where "non-art" meets "bad art." But the question "What is good art?" has significance.

Posted by: NYC Parent at June 16, 2013 03:39 PM (XjvAU)

188
What does the "M" in Class M planet stand for in Star Trek?

a) Moron
b) Miransha
c) Magnificent

Posted by: soothsayer at June 16, 2013 03:40 PM (FC8Yl)

189
oops,

make B) Minshara

Posted by: soothsayer at June 16, 2013 03:40 PM (yhYn1)

190 Give me a bullwhip and a tight anus and I'll show you art.

Posted by: Robert Mapplethorpe at June 16, 2013 03:41 PM (InBSv)

191 CAC stoner thread up

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 16, 2013 03:41 PM (DPdf7)

192 Art is Creative Expression and/or the recognition of beauty.

Posted by: rld77 at June 16, 2013 03:45 PM (rAHyd)

193 Bah, bah, bah and BAH!! Art is anything which uplifts the human spirit.

Posted by: qixlqatl at June 16, 2013 03:56 PM (ptt7Y)

194 What is art is dependent on the Viewer. One that is knowledgeable in music hears the art in the notes. One that is knowledgeable in painting sees the art in the strokes of the brush. One that is knowledgeable engineering sees the art in the simplicity/complexity of a design (see gun thread below).

Posted by: McGregor at June 16, 2013 03:57 PM (qo244)

195 See, now, El Greco gives me the creeps, whereas I love Titian. (Being redheaded may have made me biased!) Then again, I don't care much for Van Gogh, Munch or Gaugin, either.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at June 16, 2013 04:04 PM (zrlmb)

196 I took up painting 8 years ago by odd circumstances. Acrylic landscapes. Woods & water. What is art? I guess it is in the eye of the beholder. If its offensive the gubermint will subsidize the artist

Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian at June 16, 2013 04:07 PM (HVff2)

197 188 What does the "M" in Class M planet stand for in Star Trek? Dick Cheney's Warcock. Massive.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/s]akula_51 at June 16, 2013 04:46 PM (Vgn84)

198 Anybody get around to mentioning the art of ONT pantsless drunk posting?

Posted by: sTevo at June 16, 2013 04:59 PM (yJfr/)

199 What's the difference between art and craft?

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at June 16, 2013 05:35 PM (JQuNB)

200

Just in case you are actually serious:

This Artist's Creed:

1. The fundamental elements of art are perennial.

2. Precedence, fame, style and influence are irrelevant to aesthetics.

3. Gender, sexuality, race, ethnicity, origin, spirituality, temperament et al, are incidental to the merits of the work itself.

4. The concepts, idea, explanation, rational, novelty and/or intent are subservient to the potency of the work.

5. The artists' hand is vital.

6. Work that intentionally harms, encourages the harm, or celebrates the harm of a sentient being is not Fine Art.

7. Place, time, experience and inward emotional texture transmuted through a rich interior life are the heart of the Arts.

8. Media, technology, technique and process are means, not the end.

9. Politics are transient... Art remains.

10. Integrity, humility, curiosity, and consistent, honest effort are the artists' best route to acquiring the necessary knowledge, understanding and craft.

11. The Arts' ancient resonance speaks from our most inward, unique, yet universal living language (the mammalian prime language) whose foundations we each build upon from our earliest and inmost experience.

12. Aesthetic beauty lies in the skillful construction of harmonic balance... wherein is allowed to creep the craven trespass of ecstatic passion. In a masterpiece this tincture is then held in an ever so tenuous, sacred pause... which we can never forget.

All rights reserved by F. A. Alsbach, The Stuckists, (With suggestions, comments and encouragement from: Charles Thomson (Co-Founder of the Stuckists), Ellen Disanayake (author; Homo Aestheticus), Mario Henri Chakour (Virtual Pose series, artist & architect), W.J. Williams (sculptor), Lita Kenyon (painter), Marc Bohne (painter), Jim Pailott (illustrator), Frank Picini (illustrator) & Lynda Mead Alsbach (graphic designer and ever patient wife).

Posted by: Floyd Alsbach at June 17, 2013 03:50 AM (Ad13n)

201 Hello Horde- I'm a long time lurker and a professional artist. Here in Texas I'm on my second cup of breakfast oil, and I think I'm coherent enough to tackle this. I've had decades of making a living off art so this is based on my experiences. Art is both the creative process and the result of said process by which a person creates a 'thingie'. It can be in any form, on any possible surface, and made out of any possible materials. Hell of a blanket statement but its accurate. Now for the caveats. This is not a complete list. A- there's a lot of idiots and wastrels involved in art (see the story above) B- not all art is good. Much of it sucks. C- some art that sucks is great. I have a 3 year old, and I'll beat you with a baseball bat if you smack talk his work. Parents understand this perfectly. D- some art that is great sucks. I refer you to any portrait of a member of royalty sitting on a horse. E- art is entirely subjective. Entirely. What moves one person may not move another. Or it may fill you with the need to move to another state. Or move your bowels. D- art is often misused (advertising) E- art is getting easier to make (there's an app for that, believe me) F- art should make you feel something. Be it illuminating, depressing, disgusted, rapturous, whatever. It's all about the feels, people. G- some art should never be made. I'm thinking about Mapplethorpe here. So basically, if you make it, its art. It doesn't matter how you display it or even if you display it. It doesn't matter what materials or techniques are used. It's all subjective, from the Masters at the Louvre to a handmade quilt, from 30,000 year old cave paintings to my son's latest finger paint on the fridge. But it's sure not those idiots in the story above. Anyway, Horde, that's my opinion. Holy shit, I just blew years of lurking.... Crap

Posted by: Ddgreen67 at June 17, 2013 07:43 AM (7fGcO)

202 And by the way, from the inside view, the art world is absolutely over full with self important, vacuous narcissists. They're useless. The more you talk about art, the less likely you have anything to say about it. Critique between peers is essential. Critics are not.

Posted by: Ddgreen67 at June 17, 2013 07:58 AM (7fGcO)

203

"What is ART?"

If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand.

"Critics are not." See E in your previous comment.

Posted by: Gulermo at June 17, 2013 06:32 PM (LaLuv)

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