February 19, 2013
— Ace No one bothered to report it.
The CBO now estimates that the subsidies, which are to be offered through exchanges beginning in 2014, will cost 29 percent more than the CBO initially projected in 2010. The projected 10-year cost has increased by $233 billion.
Posted by: Ace at
09:42 AM
| Comments (124)
Post contains 68 words, total size 1 kb.
Posted by: beach at February 19, 2013 09:45 AM (LpQbZ)
Zero just might ruin the demorat party. Or out them. From gun "control" (remember 1994) to this POS "legislation", once people find out what's in it, the revolt against this bullshit will be on.
Mockery, calling them out, etc., must be done EVERY day every interview. And conservatives need to come up with A MOTHER FUCKING ALTERNATIVE.
How has this not been done yet? Where are our ideas in this arena. If we put nothing forward we will have nothing to show as the alternative!!!!
Posted by: Prescient11 at February 19, 2013 09:45 AM (tVTLU)
Posted by: Prescient11 at February 19, 2013 09:46 AM (tVTLU)
Posted by: beach at February 19, 2013 09:46 AM (LpQbZ)
Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 19, 2013 09:46 AM (4Mv1T)
Posted by: MFM at February 19, 2013 09:46 AM (UZQM8)
you bastard !
thats what I was going to say !!
so now I am forced to say " no duh ! "
far inferior ...
Posted by: alec at February 19, 2013 09:47 AM (usWYv)
Posted by: GardenGnome at February 19, 2013 09:47 AM (3f/jH)
Posted by: Sunny at February 19, 2013 01:44 PM (j6Axb)
That's great news. The CBO is usually off by 50% at least.
Posted by: Invictus at February 19, 2013 09:47 AM (OQpzc)
Posted by: beach at February 19, 2013 09:47 AM (LpQbZ)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 19, 2013 09:47 AM (piMMO)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 19, 2013 09:48 AM (7ObY1)
He is the Master Bater.
Surely you saw this coming.
Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 19, 2013 09:48 AM (4Mv1T)
Posted by: beach at February 19, 2013 09:49 AM (LpQbZ)
Posted by: cajun carrot at February 19, 2013 09:49 AM (UZQM8)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet at February 19, 2013 09:49 AM (l86i3)
Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 19, 2013 09:49 AM (4Mv1T)
Posted by: LASue at February 19, 2013 09:49 AM (gjIQF)
Posted by: soothsayer at February 19, 2013 09:49 AM (QVBzT)
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/b] at February 19, 2013 09:49 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: GardenGnome at February 19, 2013 01:47 PM (3f/jH)
If you have a plan to overcome human nature, lay it out there and we'll critique it.
Posted by: Invictus at February 19, 2013 09:50 AM (OQpzc)
Posted by: Jones in CO at February 19, 2013 09:50 AM (8sCoq)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 19, 2013 09:50 AM (7ObY1)
Alinski's Rules
Cloward and Piven
Fabians' Window
You guys think this is all an error or accidental?? Think again.
Posted by: fixerupper at February 19, 2013 09:50 AM (nELVU)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at February 19, 2013 09:50 AM (evdj2)
Posted by: Opus An Arcus at February 19, 2013 09:50 AM (mzVX+)
If the gaming conversation extends to anything past 1986, I'm screwed.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse
Wanna play with my joystick?
Posted by: Atari 2600 at February 19, 2013 09:51 AM (BrQrN)
Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 09:51 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 19, 2013 09:52 AM (piMMO)
Posted by: soothsayer at February 19, 2013 09:52 AM (uff2W)
Posted by: Athenian at February 19, 2013 09:52 AM (SO2Q8)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2013 09:53 AM (9Bj8R)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at February 19, 2013 09:53 AM (evdj2)
Tort reform should be front and center, absolutely. But we need a comprehensive system where all government does is encourage competition and provide catastrophic coverage to try and prevent medical bankruptcies or at least help in such circumstances.
We need AN ALTERNATIVE.
Beach: sometimes I think they can try to pin it on conservatives, but that's getting stale. Every speech by zero is a fucking broken record. He says the same shit again and again.
Even the sycophants are going to start to realize that his time is done and he truly sucked as a leader. All in due time. These fucks now portray Reagan as some great leader, because they have to. Information is now widespread, we just have to continue hammering it home.
God knows the truth but waits.
Posted by: Prescient11 at February 19, 2013 09:53 AM (tVTLU)
Posted by: I's got the No-reach-around Blues. at February 19, 2013 09:54 AM (i7B17)
Posted by: dfbaskwill at February 19, 2013 09:54 AM (71LDo)
Posted by: alexthechick - Chaotic Evil Hobbit. at February 19, 2013 09:54 AM (VtjlW)
The racism in this statement is so thick, you could brush it on a hot chicken wing.Posted by: Opus An Arcus at February 19, 2013 09:54 AM (mzVX+)
Posted by: cajun carrot at February 19, 2013 09:54 AM (UZQM8)
Since CBO was so spot-on with their first estimate, what do we expect the actual cost to be?
Posted by: SH at February 19, 2013 09:55 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Vic at February 19, 2013 09:55 AM (53z96)
How does the CBO explain that error?
Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 01:51 PM (r2PLg)
I can't really fault the CBO. They can only work with the numbers they have at the time, and when you're talking about estimates that are five to ten years out, based on numbers given to you by a corrupt administration, you're going to have shitty results.
My personal philosophy is to take anything a government entity says something will cost, double it, then add up to an additional 20% depending on the scope of the project. Anything less than that is foolish, and even THEN you're probably low-balling the figure. Government NEVER comes in on budget, let alone under budget. The rare times it does are SO rare as to be statistically insignificant.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/b] at February 19, 2013 09:56 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at February 19, 2013 09:56 AM (evdj2)
Posted by: dfbaskwill at February 19, 2013 09:57 AM (71LDo)
Cajun Carrot:
Andrew Cuomo is fucking done. Put it in the bank. His little schtick about needing 10 bullets to kill a deer.
Reference: 1994. Back then it killed the dems and public opinion was more pro-gun control back then.
Goodbye PA, Goodbye MI, Goodbye WI. Yes, people don't vote and are uninterested. But mess with their lives and their guns, watch the fuck out.
Posted by: Prescient11 at February 19, 2013 09:57 AM (tVTLU)
Posted by: Bastards asking the really tough questions at February 19, 2013 09:57 AM (N9rAA)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2013 09:57 AM (9Bj8R)
Posted by: Climate Model at February 19, 2013 09:57 AM (AWmfW)
Posted by: Thorvald at February 19, 2013 09:58 AM (1V6Pv)
Wasn't is back in 2000 or so, the CBO said we'd be running budget surpluses by now?
CBO is a joke. They are forced to run the numbers with the ass-umption that the political lies are not lies.
Posted by: Invictus at February 19, 2013 09:58 AM (OQpzc)
Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at February 19, 2013 09:58 AM (+aaxF)
Posted by: Unfrozen Caveman MENSA Chapter President at February 19, 2013 09:58 AM (Ae28/)
Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 09:58 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: VIA, on the tiny keyboard at February 19, 2013 09:59 AM (uk5D3)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at February 19, 2013 10:00 AM (evdj2)
Posted by: cajun carrot at February 19, 2013 10:00 AM (UZQM8)
Posted by: Bastards asking the really tough questions at February 19, 2013 10:00 AM (N9rAA)
Crazy thought. Maybe it will interest some morans.
I would posit that The Walking Dead has done more to help with public opinion on guns. When SHTF you want a fucking gun. Lots of them. If you have to keep reloading then you are fucked.
Culture does matter. I had this exact conversation with a hot 23 year old chick that said she was totally against any new gun bans. Totally.
Posted by: Prescient11 at February 19, 2013 10:00 AM (tVTLU)
It's gonna be exciting. The news media will just LOVE it.
Posted by: Skandia Recluse at February 19, 2013 10:00 AM (Mix/J)
Posted by: soothsayer at February 19, 2013 10:00 AM (wAng0)
Conservatives need to survive the impending doom individually.
Stop participatin', start hatin'.
Posted by: Opus An Arcus at February 19, 2013 01:50 PM (mzVX+)
My own plan is to stop interacting with liberals at a personal level. If I have to interact with them, I will call them out on any BS that spews from them. I won't knowingly do business with any company that supports a liberal agenda if it's possible.
Fuck them all.
Posted by: Marmo at February 19, 2013 10:01 AM (QW+AD)
Posted by: alec at February 19, 2013 10:01 AM (usWYv)
If you put your name on something then you take ownership of it. Fuck taking these cocksuckers off the hook if they're too fucking dumb to not cover their fat asses. The reason accounting firms have credibility is that when they sign off on financial statements, if there's chicanery going on their asses are on the line.
Posted by: Captain Hate at February 19, 2013 10:01 AM (klH5X)
Posted by: Klawnet at February 19, 2013 10:01 AM (hQFp3)
Cajun:
Booker might be done too, re his statement that he wanted to ban handguns. But he is clever, unlike that retard Cuomo, and has been "moderating" his comments lately stating that "law abiding" gun owners are not the problem.
No. Fucking. Shit.
Posted by: Prescient11 at February 19, 2013 10:01 AM (tVTLU)
"Nobody needs a hundred drum magazine" says some stupid scrunt in the CO legislature. Stupid bitch.
Posted by: Ronster at February 19, 2013 10:01 AM (JgkPs)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at February 19, 2013 10:02 AM (evdj2)
Probably a good technique. I've always tripled what ever time the government says they will have something done by...
All the more reason I find it hysterical that anyone believes the Obammycare exchanges and databases will be up and running before the next fricking century, let alone next YEAR. You want to talk about herding cats? Try herding a bunch of dead cats that have been reanimated by eldritch powers and whose sole impulse is to feed on the flesh of innocents, and who really don't give a shit that you'd like them to funnel into that handy paddock, and MAYBE you'd come close to what it'll be like to get all of this shit up and running.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/b] at February 19, 2013 10:02 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 19, 2013 10:03 AM (ZPrif)
1. Outrage
2. Historical anectdotes
3. Threats of revolution
4. Boobs
5. More ancient historical references
6. Arguing with trolls
7. Threats of secession
8. Acceptance
9. Foods
10. Boob
You COMPLETELY forgot booze. Completely. Just sayin'
Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 19, 2013 10:03 AM (4Mv1T)
Posted by: cajun carrot at February 19, 2013 10:03 AM (UZQM8)
Posted by: cajun carrot at February 19, 2013 10:04 AM (UZQM8)
Posted by: @PurpAv at February 19, 2013 10:05 AM (1rU+d)
You guys forgot selective butthurt. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet at February 19, 2013 10:05 AM (l86i3)
Posted by: Alec Baldwin at February 19, 2013 10:05 AM (Ae28/)
Posted by: Captain Hate at February 19, 2013 02:01 PM (klH5X)
At the very least the CBO should probably expand it's ranges, alter it's model or start saying less stuff is scorable.
Posted by: tsrblke (work) at February 19, 2013 10:06 AM (kLNMp)
Example from Denver NBC affiliate today:
KUSA - An RTD bus was going northbound in the southbound HOV lanes on Interstate 25 near Interstate 70 Tuesday morning until RTD dispatch told the driver.
Posted by: Jones in CO at February 19, 2013 10:06 AM (8sCoq)
Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka Ol' 3 tooth) at February 19, 2013 10:06 AM (qyv02)
Posted by: moron at February 19, 2013 10:07 AM (Ae28/)
The Dems aren't that smart. Single-payer has always been passed under the same lie as ObamaCare: That is will improve everything and cost less.
We all know that it never does that, but that's how they sell it.
Problem here is: The costs of ObamaCare are hitting hard and fast long before anyone gets the benefits and long before it's too baked in to change.
It's like all the bad parts of single-payer before any of the good, initial results show up.
The Dems really thought all their promises were true. They really believe that the magic wand of government can work wholesale rejection of the free market.
"We shall order the cost curve bent and thus it will be!"
This--ObamaCare--WAS their single-payer endgame.
I mean, how are they going to sell, "Well, ObamaCare failed at every single promise we made. Which is why we need a even bigger, even more massive government program."
Add in all the Dems who lost their seat over it. Throw in the now-bankrupt major insurance companies that sold out for a few years chance at what they thought would be record profits under ObamaCare. Profits that never happened as rational people looked at the law--and instead of buying insurance, like the companies thought they would--said, "F it, I ain't buying shit."
Where are they going to get this massive support for a whole new government program?
Posted by: RoyalOil at February 19, 2013 10:08 AM (VjL9S)
Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at February 19, 2013 10:08 AM (qwK3S)
Posted by: cajun carrot at February 19, 2013 10:09 AM (UZQM8)
Posted by: Thorvald at February 19, 2013 10:09 AM (1V6Pv)
MFM coverage:
Obamacare costs rise exponentially: crickets
Obama's Reggie Love Weekend: a few mentions
Obama complaining about sequestration: All day, all the time.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 19, 2013 10:09 AM (p/cQy)
Who'd have thunk it?!
Maybe we can put all the old sick people in the Bullet Train to Nowhere. There should be plenty of empty seats.
Posted by: PJ at February 19, 2013 10:09 AM (ZWaLo)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 19, 2013 10:09 AM (piMMO)
Posted by: RoyalOil at February 19, 2013 02:08 PM (VjL9S)
Cost obscuring though. People seem oddly disconnected from what a government program costs.
So they notice the insane increase in their personal health insurance premiums, but if that change were rolled into a new FICA or a tax increase they'd be less aware of it.
Or at least that's what I've seemed to notice anecdotally and I'm wondering if that's the play here.
Posted by: tsrblke (work) at February 19, 2013 10:10 AM (kLNMp)
Posted by: RoyalOil
Joseph Hacker, one of the MIT assholes who contributed to the policy papers that became O-care, said O-care is single payer.
This isn't news. It's what the GOP failed to exploit.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at February 19, 2013 10:11 AM (Ipj15)
Posted by: cajun carrot at February 19, 2013 10:14 AM (UZQM8)
Posted by: The Criminally Liable Media at February 19, 2013 02:15 PM (vbh31)
What interests me is that there is a New TV show, called 'Monday Morning' about a hospital and the Board it has when DRs F up and a patient dies???
Like they would really do that, considering anything said there would be a Liability nightmare...
Not to mention there would have to be a LOT of questionable deaths to make this a weekly show about ONE Hospital....
Lowering expectations of DRs? Who are AGAINST Obamcare?
Posted by: Romeo13 at February 19, 2013 10:19 AM (lZBBB)
Posted by: akula51 at February 19, 2013 10:22 AM (EzOzr)
Oh, our healthcare premium has gone from $249 a month to $419 since Obamacare was passed? oh well, nothing to see here!!
(biggest FUCKING OUTRAGE ever)
Posted by: Just the Facts at February 19, 2013 10:23 AM (m6Fkk)
Posted by: RoyalOil
Joseph Hacker, one of the MIT assholes who contributed to the policy papers that became O-care, said O-care is single payer.
This isn't news. It's what the GOP failed to exploit.
==========
Yup.
I mean, if it wasn't single-payer, what would be different? Not much, really.
And here's where the left failed: They forgot that in all the other countries where single-payer was implemented there is no higher political power than the federal government. They could force every political subdivision to participate.
But, we have 50 states, each still clinging to a thread of their own sovereignty.
The Piss-Yellow Coward John Roberts' kindest cut--that the forced expansion of Medicare was unconstitutional--may have been the fatal blow. And I believe that was a 6-3 or 7-2 ruling.
We will see. There is a lot of smoke of businesses cutting back and dropping coverage.
The next show--the bonfire--will be individuals losing their coverage as premiums increase.
Posted by: RoyalOil at February 19, 2013 10:24 AM (VjL9S)
12. Get called a Nazi for that.
13. Barrel for leaving italics on.
Posted by: comatus at February 19, 2013 10:30 AM (qaVK+)
Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at February 19, 2013 10:32 AM (+aaxF)
If you go to the source document from the CBO, there's a lot of interesting things to notice.
First, they essentially admit that you won't be able to keep your coverage if you like it (one of Obama's key selling points), since by 2019 some 11 million Americans will have lost their employer, nongroup or "other" coverage.
Second, the "uninsured" -- who the whole thing was apparently constructed for -- still number 29 million in 2023. Mission Not Accomplished.
Third, the CBO simply assumes that people will move from private insurance (employer and nongroup and other insurance) to government programs (Medicaid, CHIP, and government exchanges). This is stealth nationalization.
Fourth, there is something funny about the numbers. In each year, the number of people estimated to be in the government exchanges and Medicaid and CHIP goes up by the exact number of people who leave their private insurance or decide to get coverage rather than remain uninsured. Are those really the only choices? I don't think so.
I think it is equally likely that many more employers will choose to give up offering insurance benefits. And I also think it is very likely that a significant number of employees who will now be uninsured will choose to remain uninsured either (a) because negotiating the government exchanges is too cumbersome; or (b) because they now know that, if they don't have insurance and get sick, they can't be turned down for coverage later.
If the CBO were playing straight they would do what good actuaries do... give a range of stochastic possiblities from the worst case to best case scenario.
P.S. The worst case scenario is complete collapse of the private health insurance market followed by single-payer, followed by death panels.
Posted by: The Regular Guy at February 19, 2013 10:34 AM (qHCyt)
Posted by: rickl at February 19, 2013 10:38 AM (zoehZ)
They're called "M&M conferences (hence "Monday Mornings") it's short for "Morbidity and Mortality."
They're real. They're usually very closed door though.
And I don't think they happen until after the dust settles either.
Posted by: tsrblke (work) at February 19, 2013 10:44 AM (kLNMp)
Posted by: OCBill at February 19, 2013 10:47 AM (YJvVE)
Posted by: Phinn at February 19, 2013 10:50 AM (oFH2D)
Posted by: Observer at February 19, 2013 11:57 AM (/sohm)
Posted by: tops116 at February 19, 2013 09:35 PM (GPIio)
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Posted by: assault flounder at February 19, 2013 09:43 AM (Kkt/i)