Ace of Spades HQ

September 23, 2013

Cruz' Confusing Plan, Explained
— Ace

Cruz and Lee's strategy today is to filibuster the bill passed by the House, which defunds ObamaCare.

They want to filibuster it because if it passes, Reid can very easily clip out the defunding provision on a majority vote.

They wish to filibuster it so that they can force Reid to agree to new rules: That the defund provision will not be taken out, or that any stripping must be done with 60 votes (that is, that the move to strip can be filibustered).

Posted by: Ace at 09:33 AM | Comments (232)
Post contains 92 words, total size 1 kb.

1 The more complicated the plan, the greater the chance of a glitch.

Posted by: joncelli at September 23, 2013 09:34 AM (RD7QR)

2 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 23, 2013 09:36 AM (/PCJa)

3 >>The more complicated the plan, the greater the chance of a glitch.

As well as the more difficult to sell to other people you need to make it happen. Not that Cruz has any problem with alienating allies already, mind you.

Posted by: Lou at September 23, 2013 09:36 AM (VrJUC)

4 Burn it down. Scatter the stones. Salt the earth where it stood.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 23, 2013 09:36 AM (/PCJa)

5 Good luck with that. I do wish them well though.

Posted by: Registerd Voter at September 23, 2013 09:36 AM (d0+yW)

@Joncelli,

The more complicated the plan, the harder it is to explain to the LIVs, the easier it is to demonize the R's.

Look, it's already happening, Boehner passes a bill to fund government. All Reid and Obama have to do is sign on and Shutdown Averted, they can then battle obamacare funding next.

But they won't.

So shutdown in t-7days.

Meanwhile, the dems are taking to the streets to blame republicans for this, because...mostly because it's complicated and the LIVs don't get it.

Posted by: tsrblke, actual real life PhD student at September 23, 2013 09:37 AM (GaqMa)

7 Ah, the Senate: where support is expressed through a filibuster, and opposition through a quick vote. Byzantium stands in slck-jawed awe.

Posted by: Kevin in ABQ at September 23, 2013 09:38 AM (C3KwS)

8 Better than funding it off the bat. I'd rather the representatives fight on some hill than sit with their thumbs up their asses.

Posted by: kzintius at September 23, 2013 09:39 AM (bpSFK)

9 I don't like the plan, but with the House GOP washing its hands of doing anything further, I don't see much choice.

Posted by: gm at September 23, 2013 09:39 AM (/kBoL)

10 Did Rove approve of this strategy??

Posted by: dananjcon at September 23, 2013 09:40 AM (wmU4G)

11 Strategy is hard for GOP leadership.

Posted by: Aquaviva at September 23, 2013 09:40 AM (0wcMv)

12 They wish to filibuster it so that they can force Reid to agree to new rules: That the defund provision will not be taken out, or that any stripping must be done with 60 votes (that is, that the move to strip can be filibustered). I think Cruz's Political Neophyte is coming out a little bit here. Politically, this doesn't matter. The Defund crowd has said for quite a while that the Senate Republicans can't really do anything except present a united (minority) front. The entire fight *must* be fought between the House Republicans and the Senate Democrats. When the Senate passes something stripping out that language, the House has to be ready to say, "Nope. That or nothin'." Worse, if Cruz, Lee, et. al. try their filibuster and it gets broken, support for ObamaCare is (once again) "Bipartisan." I think this is a mistake. Hopefully it's a minor one, but it is a mistake.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 23, 2013 09:40 AM (/PCJa)

13 How many dimensions are in this chess set?

Posted by: t-bird at September 23, 2013 09:41 AM (FcR7P)

14 Wait a sec, if Reed strips the defunding, it goes to conference right? What's wrong with that? Reed accomplishes nothing.

Posted by: pashmr at September 23, 2013 09:41 AM (3aNC4)

Sort of OT...

(it's Obamacare related)

According to this article - http://tinyurl.com/n94umww - Obamacare came about because Obama needed something that would provide a little extra *oomph* for a speech that he was giving.

Seems to be a pattern...

via Instapundit (who apparently found it via Hot Air)

Posted by: junior at September 23, 2013 09:42 AM (UWFpX)

16 Dems used strategery to pass Obamacare but GOP whines when it requires strategery to combat it.

Posted by: Aquaviva at September 23, 2013 09:42 AM (0wcMv)

17 Of course I want Obamacare to go the way of Weiner's mayoral campaign but even if we fail, many Donks will be on the record with their undying love for O-care.

Posted by: WalrusRex at September 23, 2013 09:42 AM (fFdz5)

18 So the takeaway is that the House bill is more kabuki theater bullshit, designed to let the GOP sadly claim "we tried" while they knew all along their bill was meaningless. Cruz is going out on a long limb to get a result that truly would defund Obamacare.

Good on Cruz.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 23, 2013 09:42 AM (8ZskC)

19 Harry Reid can round up his 60 votes for cloture or let the filibuster go on until October 1. Doe that about sum it up?

Posted by: mrp at September 23, 2013 09:43 AM (HjPtV)

20 Congress is such a silly silly place.

Posted by: Kristophr at September 23, 2013 09:43 AM (c6N69)

21 And they expect Reid to agree to these rule changes....when, exactly? And why? I'm curious as to what leverage Cruz and Lee think they have over Reid and the Democrats, who quite frankly wish with all their hearts to see this sort of civil war going on.

I cannot believe that people are seriously believing in the "and then the American people will rise up as if with one voice and demand that Democratic Senators join in the defunding of Obamacare, to which they will be forced to accede! And Obama will get hit in the head with a frying pan in the meantime and decide NOT to veto said bill!" Hello: the American people rose up against Obamacare in a movement rarely seen before in recent history back in 2009/2010. Massachusetts elected a GOP Senator in response to it, for god's sake. It didn't matter one bit to Obama and the Democratic leadership.

So please explain to me how a reelected Obama -- with absolutely nothing to lose and only this one "accomplishment" to call his own -- is gonna be cowed into this?

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 23, 2013 09:43 AM (yemTi)

22 Wait a sec, if Reed strips the defunding, it goes to conference right? What's wrong with that? Reed accomplishes nothing. Well, the fear (and justly so) is that the House would agree to having the defunding language stripped, and we'd lose yet another hill. So you'd want to keep the defunding measure in there. I don't think that's going to work, though. Whether we like it or not, defunding ObamaCare is going to require a legitimate threat of Gov't shutdown and Boehner, et. al. standing firm for the American People. In other words: we're screwed. But at least we have a couple of Republicans who haven't forgotten that they're supposed to be looking out for our interests.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 23, 2013 09:44 AM (/PCJa)

23 Question: Is a standing filibuster an option in this scenario?

Posted by: Serious Cat at September 23, 2013 09:44 AM (UypUQ)

24 Sometimes, when watching a horror movie, it's best to look away and let the sound track tell you when it's save to watch again.

Posted by: 1200km to Wall Drug at September 23, 2013 09:44 AM (2hxnI)

25 So it's actually...well a strategy... That's refreshing.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at September 23, 2013 09:45 AM (0q2P7)

26 "And then...a miracle occurs."

Posted by: Ted Cruz's Secret Genius Political Strategy at September 23, 2013 09:45 AM (yemTi)

27 Still baffled as to why was Joe Wilson denounced for calling Obama a liar.

This whole law is fraudulent. It's bullshit top to bottom. Why isn't the GOP just walking out every day and calling it what it is?

Why are they afraid of calling Obaka a liar.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at September 23, 2013 09:46 AM (ligos)

28 So please explain to me how a reelected Obama -- with absolutely nothing to lose and only this one "accomplishment" to call his own -- is gonna be cowed into this?

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 23, 2013 01:43 PM (yemTi)

-- We are definitely in the end times

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at September 23, 2013 09:46 AM (R8hU8)

29 God this blog is full of whiny cock-nibblers.

Sorry, what was the the other plan to get rid of ObamaCare? Did I miss that other strategy that was guaranteed to work?

We get an actual leader like Cruz and you purity experts can't get off your stupid ass and do one fucking thing that helps.

Unless your calling rino bitches to get them to filbuster, STFU.

Posted by: Carlos F. Danger at September 23, 2013 09:46 AM (qxcKC)

30 So please explain to me how a reelected Obama -- with absolutely nothing to lose and only this one "accomplishment" to call his own -- is gonna be cowed into this? Posted by: Jeff B. at September 23, 2013 01:43 PM (yemTi) Ok, what's your plan?

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at September 23, 2013 09:46 AM (bCEmE)

31 Not really Cruz's fault. If Boehner had said from the jump that either the gov't runs w/o Obamacare or it doesn't run until 2015 or beyond, we'd have had more leverage than what Cruz is trying to create from scratch.

Posted by: CJR at September 23, 2013 09:47 AM (Vqcn4)

32 OK, who do you trust? Cruz?

Or "someone else"?

Posted by: Tex Lovera at September 23, 2013 09:47 AM (wtvvX)

33 >>>Harry Reid can round up his 60 votes for cloture or let the filibuster go on until October 1. Doe that about sum it up?

Yes. But. That will give the Republicans doing the fillibuster a lot of exposure. Not necessarily a good thing for Reid, since the public agrees with the Cruz right now, to cast him as a hero-against-all-odds Mr Smith type.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at September 23, 2013 09:47 AM (0q2P7)

34 Posted by: Jeff B. at September 23, 2013 01:43 PM (yemTi) I'm too tired and emotionally drained to deal with this BS today. Explain to me why I should believe for 1 picosecond that Boehner and the House will *ever* try to defund (or even "delay"- yeah, they haven't even passed that up to the Senate yet) ObamaCare. They've had enough "next times." This time they stand and fight, or no national Republican gets my vote again. It's that simple. I don't even necessarily care if they "win." Sure I'd like it, but I want to see that they're willing to stare down the Democrats before I decide to give them any more of my time/money/effort.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 23, 2013 09:47 AM (/PCJa)

35 Surrender! The crystal ball is cloudy! Run away, run away!

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 23, 2013 09:48 AM (ZshNr)

36 "'Our demand is for Reid to do one of two things,' the aide continues. 'Either agree that all amendments post-cloture have a 60-vote threshold, or bring the amendment up pre-cloture. McConnell can demand those things.' Translated into less insidery language, that basically means forcing Reid to adopt a procedure that would allow Republicans, if they stay united, to stop Reid from taking out the Obamacare provision.

The only problem is that Republicans, in the minority, cannot force Reid to do that. 'It would require UNANIMOUS consent to change the vote threshold.'"

http://bit.ly/15ilGb9

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 23, 2013 09:48 AM (YjDyJ)

37 >>>We get an actual leader like Cruz and you purity experts can't get off your stupid ass and do one fucking thing that helps.

Yes, because you know what's going to make a difference? Me calling my liberal Democratic congressman and my two ultra-liberal Democratic Senators and demanding they defund Obamacare.

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 23, 2013 09:48 AM (yemTi)

38 "And then...a miracle occurs."

Posted by: Ted Cruz's Secret Genius Political Strategy at September 23, 2013 01:45 PM (yemTi)

Probably not, but I still like it better than the immediate preemptive kissing of every Dem ass in DC.

Posted by: Hrothgar at September 23, 2013 09:48 AM (XdnQT)

39 Obama has a glass jaw. If Putin of all people can make him his b*tch, the GOP can if they can muster up the testicular fortitude.

Posted by: CJR at September 23, 2013 09:48 AM (Vqcn4)

40 I say we spread the rumor that Ocare will hurt LGBT minority children of the middle class BOOM! it's gone with the the wind. No questions asked.

Posted by: Orlandocon at September 23, 2013 09:49 AM (SldZ2)

41 Good for Cruz. Yeah, he's gonna lose. So what? Remember when Paul filibustered on Obama's drones? That was doomed from the start. It was, technically, a futile gesture that had no hope of achieving it's stated goal.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 23, 2013 09:50 AM (ZPrif)

The smart thing for the House to do was to pass a bill repealing Zerocare, and a budget with everything funded except Zerocare, then immediately go into recess until October 2. Since Dingy Harry Reid would reject both of those options, upon return from recess on October 2, after a symbolic day of government shutdown caused by Dingy Harry refusing to pass the budget, the House then passes a bill that strips out all the HHS discretionary power and requires Zerocare to be implemented, affecting everyone. Every conservative in the house should hold daily press conferences reminding everyone that Democrats alone passed this sh*t sandwich, so they can either call it a sh*t sandwich or they can eat it.

But, stupid party...

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 23, 2013 09:50 AM (sQ0LB)

43
Thanks -- now I get it.

I couldn't read this morning's post about it. More heat than light.

Posted by: Ed Anger at September 23, 2013 09:50 AM (tOkJB)

44 Yes, because you know what's going to make a difference? You? No. You and a thousand of your closest friends? Yeah, it will actually.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 23, 2013 09:50 AM (/PCJa)

45 I say we spread the rumor that Ocare will hurt LGBT minority children of the middle class

BOOM! it's gone with the the wind. No questions asked.

Posted by: Orlandocon at September 23, 2013 01:49 PM (SldZ2)

Obamacare will increase greenhouse gases.

Posted by: dananjcon at September 23, 2013 09:51 AM (wmU4G)

46
Good for Lee and Cruz. Have no idea of the strategy other than I want to see McCain, his girlfriend Lindsey and the other usual suspects vote for Odeathcare.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at September 23, 2013 09:51 AM (sj9LN)

47 Ah, it's as clear as molasses now! Thank Goodness.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at September 23, 2013 09:52 AM (71LDo)

48 48 votes in Senate to defund O'Care?

Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at September 23, 2013 09:52 AM (0axsw)

Explain to me why I should believe for 1 picosecond that Boehner and the House will *ever* try to defund (or even "delay"- yeah, they haven't even passed that up to the Senate yet) ObamaCare. They've had enough "next times."

Because unlike Cruz the House Republicans aren't interested in just using the defund effort as a fundraising gimic.

Oh wait.

Posted by: buzzion at September 23, 2013 09:53 AM (LI48c)

50 If you want to win in politics you have to pick fights. Republicans need to pick more fights. They need to lose more fights. Get bloodied. Get knocked down. And then get back up again. Short term losses vs long term gains.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 23, 2013 09:53 AM (ZPrif)

51 I agree, it may be futile but I believe this is the hill to live or die on, if they want to call themselves cons they damn sure better act like it. Make Barry work for something for a change.

Posted by: Orlandocon at September 23, 2013 09:53 AM (SldZ2)

52 ObamacareÂ© will take funding away for ObamaphonesÂ©

Posted by: dananjcon at September 23, 2013 09:53 AM (wmU4G)

53 Ok, what's your plan?

Posted by: Tami at September 23, 2013 01:46 PM (bCEmE)

I can't speak for Jeff B., but I thought the best course of action now would be to do nothing. Let all the headlines and spotlight remain on the trainwreck from these exchanges. Hopefully the public would firm up their opinion that ACA sucks and resolve to vote the Dems out of the Senate. With both chambers under the control of those who want the thing repealed, then -- in 2015 -- you can send the President a budget that repeals/defunds/replacing ACA with a note "Take it or leave it.". Only with an actual veto by Obama and thus chaos of a Govt. shutdown can you get the public to pressure the President to accept a replacement to O'care.

He'd be isolated.

Posted by: Serious Cat at September 23, 2013 09:54 AM (UypUQ)

54 The Obamacare defunding movement is going to lose. So what? Still worth fighting.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 23, 2013 09:54 AM (ZPrif)

55 48 48 votes in Senate to defund O'Care?

Just heard that too. If true, a filibuster could allow enough time to flip 2 more Ds right? One could dream.

Posted by: pashmr at September 23, 2013 09:55 AM (3aNC4)

56 Even a bad plan is better than no plan.

Posted by: Purp PhD/MD/Esq/Nobel Laureate[/i][/b][/u][/s] at September 23, 2013 09:55 AM (9MLX+)

57 Is it just me or has conservatism become a series of retreats, hopeless sieges, and rear guard actions?

Posted by: joncelli at September 23, 2013 09:55 AM (RD7QR)

58 But, stupid party...

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 23, 2013 01:50 PM (sQ0LB)

Collaborator party.

Posted by: Invictus at September 23, 2013 09:55 AM (OQpzc)

59 Let's not forget the already realized gains of the defund effort. The predictable ass-hattery of the Left is already forcing itself into the News. More idiots will speak, more will be fired, a few LIV's might get sick of being on Team Screaming Tard and bail on the Dems.

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 23, 2013 09:55 AM (ZshNr)

60 48 48 votes in Senate to defund O'Care?

Passage requires sixty votes.

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 23, 2013 09:56 AM (YjDyJ)

61 >>>Ok, what's your plan?

1.) There is no plan that will miraculously prevent Obamacare from taking effect. I'm sorry. There is no "magic shortcut" that will get us out of this right now -- that's the snake oil that Cruz has been selling people. Our chance to take it out before it started going into effect passed with the 2012 election.

2.) JackStraw (and a few others, including Ace recently) have suggested what I think is actually the only good-ish play we have: let it go into effect. Let it go into effect in full. Give the masses Obamacare, and give it to them hard. None of this delay crap, all that does is insulate the country from the full malign effects of this disaster, making them think it isn't quite as awful as it is. Why should we let Obama off the hook for this mess in any way? Nah, let it go into effect -- and use our powers of delay and obstruction in the House and Senate to prevent Obama from "fixing" his fuckup in any way -- and run 2014 and 2016 on "we're the party that will save you from this goddamned disaster."

If you want a chance in hell of ACTUALLY being rid of Obamacare, that's it. That's your only shot. It actually could work, too. What won't work is fantasy shortcut scenarios like "let's just filibuster until The People rise up with pitchforks and torches!"

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 23, 2013 09:56 AM (yemTi)

62 *waves tiny stop it with the fucking procedural games you remora frenching twatwaffles sign*

Posted by: alexthechick - Booze. Not just for breakfast. at September 23, 2013 09:56 AM (VtjlW)

63 Good news! They found a dead white woman among the terrorists and they think it might be that bitch the White Widow. Personally, I don't think it is. This was a suicide mission. She's the kind who got other people to kill themselves and not herself. I remember someone ragging on her on that issue one time.

Posted by: Jesse Pinkman, PhD Bitches! at September 23, 2013 09:56 AM (T0Pku)

64 Not that Cruz has any problem with alienating allies already, mind you.

He's not alienating our allies. he's alienating our enemies who haven't been honest enough to self-identify as such. Big difference.

Posted by: mongo78 at September 23, 2013 09:56 AM (t+Qw5)

some super genius explain to me what other options or plans Boehner or Cantor had? Or would even entertain? Or would not try to obstruct or hobble in some way?

fuck them

good on Cruz

Posted by: thunderb at September 23, 2013 09:58 AM (zOTsN)

66 So, how is: We are filibustering to defund Obamacare a hard strategy to explain? Seems simple enough to me.

Also:

So, Cruz is RINO hunting?

He's going to smoke them cagey bitches out of their holes.

Heh.

That's why the long knives are out for Cruz---they know he has hung out a huge "Put Up or Shut Up" sign.

PS: This is also a Warthog circling the battlefield waiting for amnesty to pop its vermin head out.
Heh.
'Cause if one of the traitorous bitch RINO's vote to break the filibuster--it's open season on them by the base.

Posted by: RoyalOil at September 23, 2013 09:58 AM (VjL9S)

Wait a sec, if Reed strips the defunding, it goes to conference right? What's wrong with that? Reed accomplishes nothing.

Or they'll just "deem the measure to have passed" and move on. Bullshit you say? I say show me where our elected lawmakers have shown any intention of following the law.

I dont' care if Cruz and Lee are successful or not. At least they're trying to do something public and visible, not cloistered behind closed doors and in expensive restaurants over surf and turf.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea [/i][/s][/u][/b] at September 23, 2013 09:58 AM (4df7R)

68 The Rs have been doing this all wrong. They need to read up on Churchill. Never stop fighting. You fight and bleed for every. single. godd*mned. hill. Yield nothing without draining them of precious blood and money, make them always pay a price. It's how Britain lost a majority of battles in WWII and still won the war. It's how the socialists have conducted their 100-year march to power. We conservatives must do the same, and elect and support those who do the same.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 23, 2013 09:58 AM (sQ0LB)

69 Cruz's plan may be a huge longshot but I hope he pursues it aggressively. My litigation background tells me that when matters are in a stalemate that is unfavorable to my side, upending the table can be a useful way to regain an advantage. You may not be able to predict in advance how matters will eventually settle but if you were losing before, creating a situation that is no longer static, but is now fluid, creates opportunities.

The right sure as hell isn't winning with Boehner's "I'll sit with my thumb up my ass a bit longer" strategy. This is better than nothing, and it might actually do some good.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 23, 2013 09:58 AM (8ZskC)

70 The people obsessed and upset over the "disastrous" defunding plan are WAY too involved in insider politics. The only reason the defunding plan and all its convoluted permutations is considered "bad" it that voters will look askance at the Republicans' bizarre antics and not vote for them in 2014. I got news for you. First of all, about 70% of this country doesn't pay the SLIGHTEST attention to what goes on in Washington. They don't know and they don't care. And at least 90% don't even know what a "continuing resolution" even is. Of that small percentage who are wonks and follow the details of the sausagemaking known as our federal government, almost ALL of the obsessives have already made up their minds whom to vote for. Put another way: If you care enough about politics to follow Beltway insider shenanigans, then you are ALREADY ossified in your political beliefs. What -- do you think an "undecided" voter will follow what goes on on the Senate floor? Oh, but the other downside is that THE MEDIA WILL BLAME THE REPUBLICANS blah blah blah. Really? Another news flash: THE MEDIA ALWAYS B:AMES THE REPUBLICANS FOR EVERYTHING ANYWAY. Sure, defunding may be a grandiose futile gesture. But better that than letting the stampede of progressivism trample us without one last symbolic fight.

Posted by: zombie at September 23, 2013 09:59 AM (+cx5n)

What about the Maine Hagravens?

Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at September 23, 2013 09:59 AM (0axsw)

72 I think Cruz may get some dem votes from Dems in unsafe seats. Fight!

Posted by: thunderb at September 23, 2013 10:00 AM (zOTsN)

73 Send me your first born sons! Second too, if they're at least ten, and maybe I'll drop the Congressional exemption.

Posted by: Harry Reid at September 23, 2013 10:00 AM (qf2kI)

74

♫ You gotta fight, for your right... ♫

Posted by: Beasty Boys at September 23, 2013 10:01 AM (Pr6hk)

75 O/T, but did anybody see this!? Moron Champagne! Ravens KR Jacoby Jones reportedly suffered head injuries in a brawl aboard a party bus when a stripper struck him with a bottle late Sunday. The bus was reportedly filled with Ravens players and at least one stripper named "Sweet Pea," who struck Jones with a "gigantic" Ace of Spades bottle. Jones was reportedly "bleeding everywhere," and an ambulance was called, though he did not have to be hospitalized. Notorious partier Bryant McKinnie was aboard the bus, but tried to break up the brawl. No arrests were made because "no one cooperated with cops." Jones is out indefinitely with a sprained MCL.

Posted by: Mainah at September 23, 2013 10:01 AM (659DL)

76 If you want to win in politics you have to pick fights. Republicans need to pick more fights. They need to lose more fights.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe

You couldn't be more wrong. Real politics is about running away from fights. You know, like with flapping arms and shit.

Real men run in a circle while laughing. That's how you win.

Yeah, take that to the bank.

Posted by: BeffyJ. [/i] [/b] at September 23, 2013 10:01 AM (ligos)

Posted by: kzintius at September 23, 2013 01:39 PM (bpSFK)

The Representatives did pass the budget resolution defunding ObamaCare. What exactly did you think was going on?

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Outrage Outlet Happy Hour! Cocktails of Betrayal 50% Off! at September 23, 2013 10:01 AM (hLRSq)

78 Worse, if Cruz, Lee, et. al. try their filibuster and it gets broken, support for ObamaCare is (once again) "Bipartisan."

I think this is a mistake. Hopefully it's a minor one, but it is a mistake.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 23, 2013 01:40 PM (/PCJa)

How does an unsuccessful filibuster make Obamacare bipartisan? I believe this entire defund strategy is what will make the healthcare fiasco stick to the Democrats whereas without it, blame for its anticipated failure could be falsely placed on both the right and left. When Obamacare is implemented , even the press can't spin away the steps the Right took to prevent it. Long term win for the right, at which time we may have gained some powere to do something about Obamacare.

Posted by: polynikes at September 23, 2013 10:01 AM (m2CN7)

79 72
What about the Maine Hagravens?

Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at September 23, 2013 01:59 PM (0axsw)

Nouveau riche arrivistes. We don't stoop to acknowledging their kind.

Posted by: T. Coddington van Voorhees, VII at September 23, 2013 10:01 AM (RD7QR)

80 Sure, defunding may be a grandiose futile gesture. But better that than letting the stampede of progressivism trample us without one last symbolic fight.

And we're just the guys to do it.

Posted by: Bluto at September 23, 2013 10:01 AM (8ZskC)

81 I'm good with the pain approach. People understand pain.

Posted by: Purp PhD/MD/Esq/Nobel Laureate[/i][/b][/u][/s] at September 23, 2013 10:02 AM (9MLX+)

82 I don't like the plan, but with the House GOP washing its hands of doing anything further, I don't see much choice.

Posted by: gm at September 23, 2013 01:39 PM (/kBoL)

The ball is over in the Senate's court right now; there isn't anything for the House to do with it yet.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Outrage Outlet Happy Hour! Cocktails of Betrayal 50% Off! at September 23, 2013 10:02 AM (hLRSq)

83 72
What about the Maine Hagravens?

Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at September 23, 2013 01:59 PM (0axsw)

Well, they voted against Zerocare before, and seeing it's even less popular now, I would say they are likely to stand with the caucus.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 23, 2013 10:02 AM (sQ0LB)

maybe its time for a stand on principle, for a change

all this super secret and clever maneauvering by Rove et al has not gotten us squat

Posted by: thunderb at September 23, 2013 10:03 AM (zOTsN)

85 Working with the other side of the isle is GREAT politics...

Posted by: Juan McLame at September 23, 2013 10:03 AM (Pr6hk)

86 Little Media Lies About ObamaCare- http://bit.ly/1fk8LN1 (IBD)

"Obama signed House bills to kill a costly ObamaCare reporting rule, terminate its long-term care insurance program and repeal the "free choice voucher" program. He also signed bills cutting funds for the so-called CO-OP program, a public health slush fund and other ObamaCare programs.

Two other House-passed bills Â— one to end the Independent Payment Advisory Board and another terminating the medical device tax Â— have strong bipartisan support. Another simply codified the employer mandate delay Obama himself had already ordered."

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 23, 2013 10:04 AM (YjDyJ)

87 Cruz was backed into this corner by Boner; it's an ineffectual gesture for Cruz etal to filibuster but he has to show that HE is doing something besides chide the House leaders, where the stand actually has to be made.

But Cruz certainly doesn't mind showing he has skin in the game, if that is what Boner and the establishment GOPers want to see.

Then Boner needs to get good and drunk and decide to get fighting mad. Then there's a chance to stop the crapfest that is OCare.

Posted by: GnuBreed at September 23, 2013 10:04 AM (wNF3N)

88 I was just thinking the other day I haven't seen a Voorhees sock in forever...

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 23, 2013 10:04 AM (sQ0LB)

89 Obamacare will curb your appetite for cheetos and puple drank.

Posted by: dananjcon at September 23, 2013 10:04 AM (wmU4G)

90 cooperation and waiting has gotten us border security, am I right???

Posted by: thunderb at September 23, 2013 10:04 AM (zOTsN)

91 The Representatives did pass the budget resolution defunding ObamaCare. What exactly did you think was going on? Unless the press is reporting it completely wrong (which is always a possibility), the House passed the resolution defunding ObamacareÂ… and then Boehner immediately said that if it didnÂ’t pass the Senate, theyÂ’d send up a bill including Obamacare. ThatÂ’s some real tough negotiating there.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at September 23, 2013 10:05 AM (QF8uk)

92 Saul... Saul... my boy is overwhelming the system... and everyone thought he wasn't bright enough work an umbrella

Posted by: Bill Ayers at September 23, 2013 10:05 AM (Pr6hk)

93 Boehner and Cantor, these are just the guys to trust, remember their strong stand on amnesty?

Posted by: thunderb at September 23, 2013 10:06 AM (zOTsN)

94 the only good-ish play we have: let it go into effect. Let it go into effect in full. Give the masses Obamacare, and give it to them hard. And you'll either stop HHS/IRS from using their extraordinary power to assist approved groups (by granting waivers, etc.) or at least get it publicized that they're using them... how? See, this is what's driving me nuts. People on my side of this are saying, "You know what? They've had 3 years to do something substantial, and they haven't done anything. No. No more. They do this- at least giving it a true and honest effort- or never again do they get my support," full well knowing that actually defunding ObamaCare is (at best) a long-shot. But we're the ones accused of "and then a miracle happens." How do you propose to gain seats in the House and Senate if the base is turned off because of 4 years of roll-over politics? How do you propose to gain independent votes (which are a red herring anyway, but sure, why not?) when your fundraising sucks because the base says "Fuck that, I've got my own bills to pay?" And do you seriously think the MFM is going to say "Yeah, LIVs! We lied to you for 5 years. All of this cost increase in health care is due to ObamaCare!?" Or do you think that maybe, just maybe, they'll *continue* to say, "Oh, those evil Rethuglicans! *IF ONLY* they had completely acquiesced to Single Payer, we wouldn't be in this mess!?" So tell me how, even in your best scenario, you're not relying on "and then a miracle happens?" At least the Cruz wing of the ~~GOP~~ VAG can put together a set of steps better than the underpants gnomes.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 23, 2013 10:06 AM (/PCJa)

95 So please explain to me how a reelected Obama -- with absolutely nothing to lose and only this one "accomplishment" to call his own -- is gonna be cowed into this?

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 23, 2013 01:43 PM (yemTi)

I guess the Republicans could keep the status quo and do nothing. Succeed or fail (and yes they'll probably fail), Cruz and Lee are, in fact, doing something. That's what we, those of us comprising the conservative base, have been demanding and that's what we're getting. Further, we've been demanding they fight even when the odds are against them, and the odds are most definitely against them on this one. As I understand it, it only takes 6 weaselly RINOs to defeat Cruz' plan.

No one ever promised you a victory. They just promised you a fight.

Posted by: troyriser at September 23, 2013 10:06 AM (2jF2B)

96 83 I don't like the plan, but with the House GOP washing its hands of doing anything further, I don't see much choice.
Posted by: gm at September 23, 2013 01:39 PM (/kBoL)

The ball is over in the Senate's court right now; there isn't anything for the House to do with it yet.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Outrage Outlet Happy Hour! Cocktails of Betrayal 50% Off! at September 23, 2013 02:02 PM (hLRSq)

Well if they keep the pressure on, they provide assistance and support. Or if they do what they always do and make it clearly they're a bunch of worthless pussies who will cave to Obama and Reid's demands they'll make it clear to the Dem senators that there is no reason for them to take a risk in siding with Cruz.

So yes there is something that the House can do.

Posted by: buzzion at September 23, 2013 10:06 AM (LI48c)

97 Question: Is a standing filibuster an option in this scenario? *** Yes. And Cruz has threatened as much.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 23, 2013 10:07 AM (DmNpO)

98 I'm good with the pain approach. People understand pain. Pain is the only evil I know.

Posted by: Dr. John Boehner Core at September 23, 2013 10:07 AM (QF8uk)

99 If we learned anything from the Great War, you don't sit in the trenches like a mewling pussy. You take the fight to the enemy, constant motion, high mobility.

Posted by: George S. Patton at September 23, 2013 10:07 AM (Pr6hk)

100 I'm confused, is JeffB worried that if we fight this and lose through backdoor dealings and procedure we'll get hurt in the next election or is he worried that Cruz wins some sort of compromise and the full effects of Obamacare doesn't hurt the country.
Hey dipshit, I think if you spend the afternoon mulling it over you can come up with a dozen more contradictory ideas.

Posted by: lowandslow at September 23, 2013 10:07 AM (7Nq2G)

101 Boehner and Cantor have been beating the hell out of Obama, remember the arrest of IRS officials for malfeasance in their oppression of conservative groups? no?

Posted by: thunderb at September 23, 2013 10:08 AM (zOTsN)

102 >> Congress is such a silly silly place. "It's only a model..."

Posted by: Scott M at September 23, 2013 10:08 AM (AdBfq)

103 The best idea. The House doesn't pass it in the first place. Shut the fucking government down. SS, Medicare, military pay will go on without interruption. Maybe a shutdown WOULD force the military to withdraw from the Syrian debacle. That would be a good thing.

Posted by: Soona at September 23, 2013 10:08 AM (3sDOE)

104 So please explain to me how a reelected Obama -- with absolutely nothing to lose and only this one "accomplishment" to call his own -- is gonna be cowed into this? Posted by: Jeff B. at September 23, 2013 01:43 PM (yemTi) He can't be. But the point is to frustrate him at every turn so he can't do anymore damage, or less, for the next 3 years. Box him in, check him, and make him regret the day he was born, where ever he was born

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 23, 2013 10:08 AM (9Xc5j)

105 14. Wait a sec, if Reed strips the defunding, it goes to conference right? --not necessarily. There were a lot of protocol procedural steps omitted in the ObamaCare Congressional vote that of itself wasn't "properly" conducted.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 10:08 AM (MhA4j)

106 >>I'm good with the pain approach. People understand pain. What people keep missing is there was no workable plan to defund Obamacare at this point. None. That shipped when people decided Romney was too much of a RINO to take a chance on. Better to go full retard with Obama. The only strategy for right now was to have been running a very vocal campaign for the last year reminding people over and over that Republicans had no part in this disaster and do not support it and will work to get rid of it once we have the numbers. Then get the hell out of the way and let this train wreck happen. If your opponent is beating themselves get the hell out of the way.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 23, 2013 10:08 AM (g1DWB)

107 Boehner is not a war-time consigliere

Posted by: Michael Corlene at September 23, 2013 10:09 AM (Pr6hk)

108 So the next NY mayor de Blasio is a proud and open socialist?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 23, 2013 10:09 AM (ZPrif)

109 So please explain to me how a reelected Obama -- with absolutely nothing to lose and only this one "accomplishment" to call his own -- is gonna be cowed into this? Restore funding of Obamacare in conference, with a new rider.....delay for two more years, remove all waivers, exemptions, and perks. Roll it up, shove it up Reids ass.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at September 23, 2013 10:09 AM (sCynV)

110 Something tells me that this is like waiting for the Bills to pull out a victory yesterday

Posted by: Caliban at September 23, 2013 10:09 AM (DrC22)

111 Oh yeah.. I see now how brilliant a plan this defunding thing is.. I was skeptical before.. nay.. I was downright against it.

But now.. after it's all 'splained to me so clearly, I can see the genius in the plan.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at September 23, 2013 10:10 AM (f9c2L)

112 I'm in the camp that, OK, great they're trying something. But also in the camp that the Great Unwashed (LIVs) don't know, don't care and don't pay attention to actual votes in D.C. They DO, however, absorb a little of the media spin, which as always will blame the Republicans.

The Rs could do themselves a favor and find 10 standup comedians and TV writers and pay them big bucks to write and deliver jokes ridiculing Obamacare and the Dems. That, my friends, would pay dividends with the LIVs, with everyone else. The fight as always is in the popular culture. Perception is truth, at least for the Kardashian obsessed.

Posted by: Sphynx at September 23, 2013 10:10 AM (OZmbA)

113 How does an unsuccessful filibuster make Obamacare bipartisan? Not just "unsuccessful" but "broken." And it makes it bipartisan because the Dems don't have 60 votes on their own to break the filibuster. That would require crossover from the Republicans. And you *know* that those Republicans would be hyped for their "bipartisan compromise."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 23, 2013 10:10 AM (/PCJa)

114 Not very impressed with our side whining "this is HARD!". Just listen to him and do what he wants. He is smarter than you. This IS the hill.

Posted by: truth fairy at September 23, 2013 10:10 AM (ue2Nm)

115 AllenG, hence the part of my plan where post-shutdown they carve out all the HHS discretion bullsh*t from 0-Care so that everyone does in fact feel the pain.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 23, 2013 10:10 AM (sQ0LB)

116 Yep, Cruz is just a big dummy who's helping the Democrats -- that's why Obama isn't all angry and frustrated.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 23, 2013 10:10 AM (ZPrif)

117 Little Media Lies About ObamaCare...

All that shit to make it less-bad will prove a strategic blunder.

Posted by: Purp PhD/MD/Esq/Nobel Laureate[/i][/b][/u][/s] at September 23, 2013 10:10 AM (9MLX+)

118

Maybe a WWII reference.

The Republicans are like a kamikaze pilot in a flat spin being peppered with quad fifties and five-inch guns fiddling with his trim tabs.

Posted by: Beagle at September 23, 2013 10:10 AM (sOtz/)

119 If truly challenged, Barky will fold like a cheap, empty suit

Posted by: Bashar al Assad at September 23, 2013 10:10 AM (Pr6hk)

120 Question: Is a standing filibuster an option in this scenario?

***

Yes. And Cruz has threatened as much.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 23, 2013 02:07 PM (DmNpO)

Ok, thanks.

Followup question:

Can Senators "tag-team" a standing filibuster? Say, Cruz starts the first leg, trying to go 24 hours but when he finally gives in to nature, Rand takes over, doing his own 24 hours or until he gives out and its Mike Lee's turn. Is that allowed?

Posted by: Serious Cat at September 23, 2013 10:11 AM (UypUQ)

121

yes, Cruz should totes listen to the GOP Senate and House leadership. They are totes badass. When they aren't weeping and hiding or trying to go to war in Syria to be Al Qaeda's air force, that is.

Why he would be a fool not to listen to them

Posted by: thunderb at September 23, 2013 10:11 AM (zOTsN)

122

How do you propose to gain seats in the House and Senate if the base is turned off because of 4 years of roll-over politics? How do you propose to gain independent votes (which are a red herring anyway, but sure, why not?) when your fundraising sucks because the base says "Fuck that, I've got my own bills to pay?"

Because in this scenario, conservatives will continue to reward politicians who betray their values. Just like the Democrats were rewarded with majorities in both houses after the Assault Weapons Ban.

But this is different somehow, because I don't understand how The Holy Process works. Or math. Or something.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 23, 2013 10:11 AM (CJjw5)

123 --not necessarily. There were a lot of protocol procedural steps omitted in the ObamaCare Congressional vote that of itself wasn't "properly" conducted. The house bill comes to mind. It was an unrelated bill, that had already passed the house. They stripped it bare, inserted 2500 pages of obamascare, and then deemed the bill as having already been voted on.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at September 23, 2013 10:12 AM (sCynV)

124 Anything that makes it look like Obamacare is unmistakeably a Democrat upgrade to the medical/health system is good.

The media will still spin this as "If only the Republicans had fully cooperated with Obama on this, we would have heaven on earth!"

Posted by: Hrothgar at September 23, 2013 10:12 AM (XdnQT)

125 Jamie Dupree ‏@jamiedupree 36s Sen Cruz starts the week off by objecting to confirming a series of non-controversial nominations heh heh

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 23, 2013 10:12 AM (DmNpO)

126 >>>Restore funding of Obamacare in conference, with a new rider.....delay for two more years, remove all waivers, exemptions, and perks. Roll it up, shove it up Reids ass.

Um...do you have any idea how Conference Committee works, procedurally? Apparently not.

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 23, 2013 10:12 AM (yemTi)

127 Do nothing! Let it pass! It will collapse under it's own weight like Social Security and Medicare! Woop! Woop! Wackobirds!

Cruz should shut up and sit down!

Posted by: Squishy McCain Pub at September 23, 2013 10:12 AM (YmPwQ)

128 BTW, Patrick Kennedy testifying on CSpan-3 and the Senate on CSpan-2

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 23, 2013 10:14 AM (DmNpO)

129 AllenG, hence the part of my plan where post-shutdown they carve out all the HHS discretion bullsh*t from 0-Care so that everyone does in fact feel the pain. Which passes... how? You'll find enough Democrats to sign onto that where, exactly? Can Senators "tag-team" a standing filibuster? Yes. A senator can yield the floor to any other senator whenever. So Cruz can filibuster for X hours and then yield to Paul, who could then yield to Lee, and so forth. If I were those three, I wouldn't trust Rubio, but maybe that's just me.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 23, 2013 10:14 AM (/PCJa)

130 The way to kill Obamacare is to fully implement Obamacare? That's a nice theory, I'd rather not test it.

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 23, 2013 10:15 AM (ZshNr)

131 The way to kill Obamacare is to fully implement Obamacare? Actually, if there were a prayer of actually ending the exemptions, carve-outs, waivers, and special favors, I'd be all for it. There isn't, though, so I'll skip that one.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 23, 2013 10:16 AM (/PCJa)

132 But if it is implemented, damn right all the special exemptions, waivers, etc. need to be tossed.

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 23, 2013 10:16 AM (ZshNr)

133 Great moments are born from great opportunity.
And that's what you have here tonight, boys.

That's what you've earned here, tonight.

One game.

If we played 'em ten times, they might win nine.

But not this game. Not tonight.

Tonight, we skate with 'em.

Tonight, we stay with 'em, and we shut it down because we can!
Tonight, we are the greatest legislators in the world.

You were born to be Congressman -- every one of ya.

And you were meant to be here tonight.

This is your time.

Their time -- is done. It's over.

I'm sick and tired of hearin' about what a great legislative team the Statists have.
Screw 'em!

This is your time!!

Now go out there and take it!

Posted by: thunderb at September 23, 2013 10:16 AM (zOTsN)

134

Umm, doesn't this put the shutdown squarely onto the shoulders of the Republicans?

You can't blame the Democrats if it's republicans preventing a vote from happening.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at September 23, 2013 10:16 AM (SO2Q8)

135 The way to kill Obamacare is to fully implement Obamacare? That's a nice theory, I'd rather not test it. **** I see it as a last-step approach and should be done so only with all exemptions stripped. All of them.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 23, 2013 10:16 AM (DmNpO)

136 That would be badass if three Senators held everything up for months.

Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at September 23, 2013 10:16 AM (0axsw)

137 As much as for any other reason? Make a protest scene which the public sees, postpone the vote until as many as ever will Americans do call Congress to protest ObamaCare to demand that it never receive public funding. Not a red cent.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 10:17 AM (MhA4j)

138 The way to kill Obamacare is to fully implement Obamacare? That's a nice theory, I'd rather not test it.

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 23, 2013 02:15 PM (ZshNr)

Sort of like the cancer cure that requires you to be injected with live cancer cells!

Posted by: Hrothgar at September 23, 2013 10:17 AM (XdnQT)

139 This is your time!!Now go out there and take it! Posted by: thunderb at September 23, 2013 02:16 PM (zOTsN) Do you believe in miracles!? YES!

Posted by: Mainah at September 23, 2013 10:17 AM (659DL)

140 Hey I hear the President of Iran is coming here with a small suitcase to bring obama's balls back with him to Iran

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 23, 2013 10:17 AM (9Xc5j)

141 Let it go into effect in full. Give the masses Obamacare, and give it to them hard.
============
See also, Medicare, Medicade, Social Security and the food stamps program among a thousand other government programs that are "giving it to us good and hard" yet have no possible way of ever being scaled back.

Except the cold, hard bitch of math.

I do not believe there is any viable path to repeal in the "let them eat their shit" plan--the shit-eaters are already eating shit and love it and the one's who never wanted to eat shit are already four-square against all aspects of Obamacare.

Posted by: RoyalOil at September 23, 2013 10:17 AM (VjL9S)

142

you will never rally the troops if you are afraid to fail

pussys do not prevail

Posted by: thunderb at September 23, 2013 10:18 AM (zOTsN)

143 Umm, doesn't this put the shutdown squarely onto the shoulders of the Republicans? You can't blame the Democrats if it's republicans preventing a vote from happening. *** MESSAGING! Cruz and Company have figured this out and are sending out the message that it is the DEMS, with their unwillingness to accept the CR submitted by the house, who are shutting it down. They have choices and they choose, instead, to shut it down.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 23, 2013 10:19 AM (DmNpO)

144 There is no way a lawless administration will not continue to grant waivers, exceptions, and carve out "special" classes of citizens.

Posted by: Hrothgar at September 23, 2013 10:19 AM (XdnQT)

145 Hey I hear the President of Iran is coming here with a small suitcase to bring obama's balls back with him to Iran *** A suitcase? Such overkill! It only requires a contact lens case.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 23, 2013 10:20 AM (DmNpO)

146 What body has the authority to strip exemptions in O'care?

Posted by: 13times at September 23, 2013 10:20 AM (fGPLK)

147 The basic problem that has brought us to this point, where Choom Boy and his co-conspirators can run roughshod over all opposition, is that the majority of conservatives are still playing by the Old Rule:

Democrats might be greedy shitweasels, but they love their country and, when the chips are down, will abide by the law and do what's right for America.

That actually was true for a while, even as late as the Nixon era. Sadly, tired old blowhards like McCain, McCullough, the NRO crowd and Poppin' Fresh think it still is. All we have to do is pet the rabid dog, they think, and he'll wag his tail and look lovingly at you with his big soulful doggy eyes.

At some point, however, people like Clinton, Reid, Pelosi, Choom Boy and others decided that they could Win Big if they exploited the belief that they would, out of simple patriotism and ethics, never do anything wrong.

Guess what? It worked. We had eight years of Clinton, we had Reid and Pelosi acting like Mob bosses, and a lying sack of shit in the White House. They have done whatever they wanted, and still do, and have never been called to account for the results.

In certain South American countries, where corruption is as common as air, there probably would have been firing squads, or helicopters speeding off into the night carrying ex-dictators to their new pads in Monte Carlo. Not here. We haven't gotten the message yet.

Since the rules of play in government and (most) laws are still on the books, we can surprise the hell out of Reid, President Historic FirstÂ© and the rest of that cabal simply by casting aside myopic surrender monkeys like most "conservative pundits" and forcing everyone to play by the friggin' rules.

Posted by: MrScribbler at September 23, 2013 10:20 AM (kaGpp)

148 See also, Medicare, Medicade, Social Security and the food stamps program among a thousand other government programs that are "giving it to us good and hard" yet have no possible way of ever being scaled back.

Except the cold, hard bitch of math.

I do not believe there is any viable path to repeal in the "let them eat their shit" plan--the shit-eaters are already eating shit and love it and the one's who never wanted to eat shit are already four-square against all aspects of Obamacare.

Posted by: RoyalOil at September 23, 2013 02:17 PM (VjL9S)

When people sign up for O'care and learn they can no longer see the regular doctor they'd been going to for years, trust me, they will turn against it fast.

Posted by: Serious Cat at September 23, 2013 10:20 AM (UypUQ)

149

remember how the media was forced to cover the filibuster they had before?

People hate OCare already. They may not understand the legislative procedures, but they know Cruz and Lee and Paul hate OCare and are trying to get rid of it. And Reid and the rest of Congress is standing in the way.

Explain again how this is a bad thing

Posted by: thunderb at September 23, 2013 10:21 AM (zOTsN)

150 #152

McConnell, not McCullough.

My apology to chain-saw owners everywhere. Mitch isn't sharp enough to cut through a soap bubble.

Posted by: MrScribbler at September 23, 2013 10:22 AM (kaGpp)

151 Allen, I'm talking about the House. We don't need no stinking Democrats. Let the Senate continue to choke on poison pill bills until the Dems swallow the sh*t sandwich or agree to toss the whole thing.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 23, 2013 10:22 AM (sQ0LB)

152

70 PRECENT OF THE PEOPLE ALREADY HATE O'CARE

it does not need to be fully implemented for them to get that

they need to be made aware there is still something that can be done about it

a filibuster may do that

Posted by: thunderb at September 23, 2013 10:22 AM (zOTsN)

153 Look boys and girls we all know some how or other we are taking up the ass on this debt ceiling thing and defunding obamacare. And obama is trying to give away the house at the UN. I say we party harty as the ship goes down.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 23, 2013 10:22 AM (9Xc5j)

154 Get your medicine or spend years in paperwork hell trying to get your old doctor back? Most people will take their medicine, you know, to prevent dying.

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 23, 2013 10:23 AM (ZshNr)

155

I do not believe there is any viable path to repeal in the "let them eat their shit" plan--the shit-eaters are already eating shit and love it and the one's who never wanted to eat shit are already four-square against all aspects of Obamacare.

Posted by: RoyalOil at September 23, 2013 02:17 PM (VjL9S)

-----------------------------

The same people proposing this option are the same ones exasperated that we just don't understand that defund doesn't have a chance of passing the Senate, much less surviving a veto, while totally missing the point that the point isn't winning - it's a signifier to the conservative base that the GOP may not be the entirely worthless, rotted corpse that we suspect it is.

But at the same time, these hyper-observant students of human nature can ignore the same mathematical advantage in the Senate and assume that the GOP can force them to implement Obamacare in full, denying Harry Reid and Obama the opportunity to pass out exemptions and waivers to their union and federal employee cronies. Exactly HOW are you going to force them to do that? You just said we didn't have the votes to do ANYTHING.

What the fuck are they smoking?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 23, 2013 10:23 AM (CJjw5)

156 Actually, if there were a prayer of actually ending the exemptions, carve-outs, waivers, and special favors, I'd be all for it. -- I wouldn't. I don't want any federal bureau invading my most personal space (body/mind) 'because they could' against my will and against my Constitutional Rights.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 10:23 AM (MhA4j)

157 Most people will take their medicine, you know, to prevent dying. Posted by: Lincolntf at September 23, 2013 02:23 PM (ZshNr) Because they are short sighted

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 23, 2013 10:23 AM (9Xc5j)

158 See also, Medicare, Medicade, Social Security and the food stamps program among a thousand other government programs that are "giving it to us good and hard" yet have no possible way of ever being scaled back.

Except the cold, hard bitch of math.

I do not believe there is any viable path to repeal in the "let them eat their shit" plan--the shit-eaters are already eating shit and love it and the one's who never wanted to eat shit are already four-square against all aspects of Obamacare.
Posted by: RoyalOil
............
The difference here is that Obamacare isn't a pure freebie like those other programs.

At best, you get a "subsidy". But that means you gotta buy insurance and fork over thousands of dollars just so you can get the subsidy. It's a shit sandwich.

Nobody in their right mind who is doing without insurance right now will find that particular scenario attractive.

It fucks with employers so bad they are moving people to part time and dropping family coverage.

There is nothing enticing about Obamacare. Nothing. Everybody gets fucked under Obamacare except maybe the really poor who get to go on Medicaid.

Let Obamacare kick in.. pass a bill that says it ALL has to be implemented as the law is written. It will be repealed within a year - with willing participation of Democrats.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at September 23, 2013 10:25 AM (f9c2L)

159 >>I see it as a last-step approach and should be done so only with all exemptions stripped. >>All of them. Well that ain't gonna happen. But it actually works either way. Look, the only way this gets repealed is if we get more people in DC or if the program proves so toxic that even Dems start turning on it in big numbers. They aren't going to abandon Obama before it gets implemented. It would be the end of Obama and the end of many of them. But once it gets implemented people are going to be pissed. They will be pissed at what they are losing, how much they are paying, and if we are smart, pissed at people who are someone getting out of this disaster. This isn't SS or Medicare. Nobody wakes up every day feeling pain because of either of those plans. They are incremental and largely hidden. But there is nothing hidden about having your insurance go away. There is nothing insurance about losing your doctor. There is nothing hidden about seeing your premium skyrocket 40, 50 maybe 60%. And there is nothing hidden seeing favored classes getting a break because they are friends of the current government. We should be focused on building a communications strategy right now to run against this program in every district across the country. We need more votes before we can get rid of this thing. It's just that simple.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 23, 2013 10:25 AM (g1DWB)

160 >>>No one ever promised you a victory. They just promised you a fight.

No, that's precisely wrong. Ted Cruz was out telling the conservative base at literally EVERY OPPORTUNITY that a victory was not only possible, but it would happen if the "Surrender Caucus" would just man up and fight for it. Don't you remember how people got worked up into this retarded tizzy in the first place? It wasn't because Ted Cruz came out and said "okay guys, I think this situation absolutely requires a really stupid and futile gesture be done in order to show that we still have fight left in us!" Nobody would have bought into that pitch at all (even though that is, in effect, what Cruz ultimately was demanding). Nope, instead Cruz was going on Mark Levin's show seemingly every other day, and message-bombing conservative blogs, with the proposal that Obamacare really could be miraculously STOPPED DEAD with his Creative Proposal.

Now, of course, once his bluff was called by the House of Representatives (a number of whose perfectly Tea Party-conservative members got fucking sick of being called quislings by a guy who was literally selling lies to the base and juicing them)...NOW Ted Cruz and Mike Lee are backpedalling, saying "oh well of course we really aren't going to be able to defund Obamacare, we just wanted to 'show the colors.'

It's such revisionist history bullshit. And anyone who buys into this "oh we just wanted a fight!" revision -- conveniently editing away the myriad statements where Cruz dangled the phantasm of "stopping Obamacare" in front of the base during the summer -- strongly suggests that they're not on one side or another of this issue because of the intellectual/political merits of that side's argument, but rather because it's just about tribalism.

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 23, 2013 10:25 AM (yemTi)

161 Tune in to CSpan 2

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 23, 2013 10:25 AM (DmNpO)

162 >>>No one ever promised you a victory. They just promised you a fight.

No, that's precisely wrong. Ted Cruz was out telling the conservative base at literally EVERY OPPORTUNITY that a victory was not only possible, but it would happen if the "Surrender Caucus" would just man up and fight for it. Don't you remember how people got worked up into this retarded tizzy in the first place? It wasn't because Ted Cruz came out and said "okay guys, I think this situation absolutely requires a really stupid and futile gesture be done in order to show that we still have fight left in us!" Nobody would have bought into that pitch at all (even though that is, in effect, what Cruz ultimately was demanding). Nope, instead Cruz was going on Mark Levin's show seemingly every other day, and message-bombing conservative blogs, with the proposal that Obamacare really could be miraculously STOPPED DEAD with his Creative Proposal.

Now, of course, once his bluff was called by the House of Representatives (a number of whose perfectly Tea Party-conservative members got fucking sick of being called quislings by a guy who was literally selling lies to the base and juicing them)...NOW Ted Cruz and Mike Lee are backpedalling, saying "oh well of course we really aren't going to be able to defund Obamacare, we just wanted to 'show the colors.'

It's such revisionist history bullshit. And anyone who buys into this "oh we just wanted a fight!" revision -- conveniently editing away the myriad statements where Cruz dangled the phantasm of "stopping Obamacare" in front of the base during the summer -- strongly suggests that they're not on one side or another of this issue because of the intellectual/political merits of that side's argument, but rather because it's just about tribalism.

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 23, 2013 10:25 AM (yemTi)

163 The Republicans would do well to junk the false gentlemanly camaraderie with the leftist of the Democratic party and just go Delenda Est all the time.

Posted by: toby928© at September 23, 2013 10:26 AM (QupBk)

164 Ack, sorry about the double post. I'll go barrel myself for awhile on principle.

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 23, 2013 10:26 AM (yemTi)

165 Hey I hear the President of Iran is coming here with a small suitcase to bring obama's balls back with him to Iran A very small suitcase. Actually, more like a tiny coin purse.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at September 23, 2013 10:27 AM (sCynV)

166

Has the House voted on the whole bill yet? If not, then I hope they defeat it. Shut it down. We'll deal with the after-effects later. First things first.

Posted by: Soona at September 23, 2013 10:27 AM (3sDOE)

167 The only strategy for right now was to have been running a very vocal campaign for the last year reminding people over and over that Republicans had no part in this disaster and do not support it and will work to get rid of it once we have the numbers. Then get the hell out of the way and let this train wreck happen.
=========

That's the real reason behind the defund strategy: Nothing will shine a light brighter than the Sun on the fact that the Republicans had no part and did all they could to stop it than a united filibuster; a high-profile FIGHT.

How else can we get through the media embargo and siege?

Posted by: RoyalOil at September 23, 2013 10:28 AM (VjL9S)

168 Literally selling lies? What was he charging? Can I get a cheap "Late for work" excuse?

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 23, 2013 10:28 AM (ZshNr)

169 71 The only reason the defunding plan and all its convoluted permutations is considered "bad" it that voters will look askance at the Republicans' bizarre antics and not vote for them in 2014.

If the reason for pursuing this strategy is to make a point (as opposed to actually passing legislation), it would have been better to actually go all-in by pursuing full repeal and settling for delay. As far as this particular strategy (filibustering the House CR) is concerned, it would make more sense to try to force a vote and win, as positive action places the blame squarely on the Democrats. Also, a filibuster of the House CR will only confuse the average and gives the false impression that a blockage of the same actually defunds ObamaCare. So for me, this is not about fear of losing in 2014 but about presenting the most persuasive and airtight case.

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 23, 2013 10:28 AM (YjDyJ)

170

If Cruz' plan were such a total loser, they would not be so panicked. It is the one legislative achievement of the JEF. If there were no chance of Cruz succeeding, they would just let him do his thing and laugh

They are NOT doing that. They are upset. They are worried. They are trying to destroy him. Because they think he will fail? They want him to fail

they are telling you they fear this may succeed. That some dems may join in. That the emperor has no clothes.

Posted by: thunderb at September 23, 2013 10:31 AM (zOTsN)

171 There won't be any CHOICE in treatments. Even diagnoses will be arbitrary. Accuracy? Accountability? What the hell difference at this point? Obama came, saw and killed. You will be harmed for expressing any complaints. Try to file a malpractice law suit against the Federal Government, esp. given Chief Just Ice Roberts. Congress years ago already passed legislation with an insert denying anyone legal rights should an American suffer negative affects (death,etc) from health care diagnosis/treatment under Federal supervision.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 10:31 AM (MhA4j)

172 All of the "it's impossible!" hand-wringing is predicated on Harry Reid getting 100% compliance from the Senate Dems. It's likely he will, but not definite. Pretending it is a foregone conclusion is dishonest. This is why Legislative bodies deliberate, or are supposed to.

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 23, 2013 10:32 AM (ZshNr)

173 It's such revisionist history bullshit. And anyone who buys into this "oh we just wanted a fight!" revision -- conveniently editing away the myriad statements where Cruz dangled the phantasm of "stopping Obamacare" in front of the base during the summer -- strongly suggests that they're not on one side or another of this issue because of the intellectual/political merits of that side's argument, but rather because it's just about tribalism.
Posted by: Jeff B.
............
That may be.. but anyone who believed that bullshit is pretty fucking stupid.

All you have to do is do the match.

You either shut down the gov't permanently. Or, you fund Obamacare. Neither the Dems nor Obama gives a shit if the Repubs shut it down - because it is ALWAYS blamed on the GOP. The news has already started this shit.

And, even if you DID defund Obamacare, you gotta do it again in 6 months or a year when this CR runs out. How many times will this fight need to be fought until Obama gets out of office?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at September 23, 2013 10:32 AM (f9c2L)

174 Has the House voted on the whole bill yet? If not, then I hope they defeat it. Shut it down. We'll deal with the after-effects later. First things first. *** Reid and Cruz up now on CSpan 2

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 23, 2013 10:32 AM (DmNpO)

175 Posted by: RoyalOil at September 23, 2013 02:28 PM (VjL9S)

The repubs have earned the soubriquet of stupid, because every one of them should have been ceaselessly voicing opposition to it on every appearance on a news show, and speaking out on the Capitol steps on a daily basis!

Posted by: Hrothgar at September 23, 2013 10:33 AM (XdnQT)

176 The repubs have earned the soubriquet of stupid, because every one of them should have been ceaselessly voicing opposition to it on every appearance on a news show, and speaking out on the Capitol steps on a daily basis!
Posted by: Hrothgar
..........
Conveniently, the news does not cover Republicans.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at September 23, 2013 10:34 AM (f9c2L)

177 David Freddoso (formerly of NR, now editor of ConservativeIntel, and a recent guest on the AoSHQ podcast -- not a RINO in any conceivable way) writes an article that every single person who's pushing for Cruz and the shutdown, etc. needs to read: http://tinyurl.com/ot4hlxp

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 23, 2013 10:34 AM (yemTi)

178 Well....at least they have a plan... which is more than I can say for the rest of us squishy Republican Senators.. Can one of you morons give me a hand with my diaper? Its full....

Posted by: Tom 'Let it Burn" Coburn at September 23, 2013 10:35 AM (7YnaR)

179 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 23, 2013 02:32 PM (DmNpO) Hm, Senate hard at work...

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 10:35 AM (MhA4j)

180 100 Question: Is a standing filibuster an option in this scenario?

Yes. And Cruz has threatened as much.

My recollection is that he is not allowed to filibuster the vote to strip the defunding measure, though. Need to double check that.

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 23, 2013 10:36 AM (YjDyJ)

181 Try to file a malpractice law suit against the Federal Government, esp. given Chief Just Ice Roberts. Congress years ago already passed legislation with an insert denying anyone legal rights should an American suffer negative affects (death,etc) from health care diagnosis/treatment under Federal supervision.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 02:31 PM (MhA4j)

-----------------------------------------------------

You didn't hear what Dear Leader told a conference of doctors two years ago? Tort laws will not change. Doctors will still be held individually accountable under Ocare. Doctors will still have to pay out the ass for mal-practice insurance. That's why so many of them are just saying "fuck it" and quiting medicine altogether. Unless they belong to a future hospital group, they won't be able to afford private practices.

Posted by: Soona at September 23, 2013 10:36 AM (3sDOE)

182

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 23, 2013 02:25 PM (yemTi)

Yes Cruz was able to brain wash the feeble and Super Jeff was able to avoid it because of his super powers of brainyism. And even though Cruz never ever said that defunding Obamacare was a certainty with just the right legislative proposal, Super Jeff was able to see that thought rays from Cruz was able to penetrate the less intelligent of the Right and relay that message. Super Jeff was also able to see through Cruz's evil plan to use this only as a fundraising scheme.

What an asshat.

Posted by: polynikes at September 23, 2013 10:39 AM (m2CN7)

183 Chad Pergram ‏@ChadPergram 2m Reid effectively keeping Cruz off the floor now by keeping Senate in quorum call.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 23, 2013 10:39 AM (DmNpO)

184 I am undefeated as a professional boxer in the light heavyweight division.
So what if I have never had a fight, I have never lost either.

Posted by: Big Ben at September 23, 2013 10:40 AM (I5Htn)

185 Reid effectively keeping Cruz off the floor now by keeping Senate in quorum call.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 23, 2013 02:39 PM (DmNpO)

----------------------------------------------

Cruz' purpose is still being fulfilled. They're still not voting on it.

Posted by: Soona at September 23, 2013 10:42 AM (3sDOE)

186 But once it gets implemented people are going to be pissed. They will be pissed at what they are losing, how much they are paying, and if we are smart, pissed at people who are someone getting out of this disaster.
============
You mean like they got good and pissed at the Democrats in 2012?

Remember those heady days, where we were sure--any day now--the masses were going to finally wise up and blame Obama and the Dems for the stagnant economy and high unemployment?

We had millions and millions unemployed and under-employed and . . . they voted for Obama.

Yeah. Not buying "the shit-eaters are suddenly going to get tired of eating shit" strategy.

They've been eating shit for over five years now. And when given the opportunity to switch to at least a low-cal shit, maybe even no more shit? They stuck with, "more shit, please."

Posted by: RoyalOil at September 23, 2013 10:42 AM (VjL9S)

187 Cruz' purpose is still being fulfilled. They're still not voting on it. *** The Dems are intellectually outmatched now.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 23, 2013 10:43 AM (DmNpO)

188 Politically it is a brilliant play by Cruz. 1) The House basically said, we want you out, so here is what you have asked for, and when Harry Reid says no, we will cave, like we planned to do all along, but now we can blame you. 2) Cruz responded with the obvious fact that Harry Reid would have the votes to reinstate Obamacare funding, and asked the House to stand its ground when Harry Reid added funding. 3)The House then faced with the task of not caving, which was the plan, accused Cruz of fraud, acting like they were surprised that Harry Reid had a majority in the Senate. 4) Faced with a House that was 1) Intent on caving and 2) trying to blame Ted for their caving, Ted then announces he will filibuster the bill. Either 1) the House can make its case to the public and then stand strong when Reid strips the defunding, or 2) cave like it planned to from the beginning. Either way, Ted doesn't get blamed for allowing the House to cave.

Posted by: Boone at September 23, 2013 10:43 AM (3p8HS)

189 Posted by: AllenG t at September 23, 2013 02:06 PM (/PCJa)

Well fucking said, Allen.

Posted by: KG[/i][/b] at September 23, 2013 10:44 AM (p7BzH)

190 182. JeffB. Your reference fails to provide his own reference to substantiate his claims. "Obamacare gets funded whether that [government spending] bill passes or not. Obamacare is already funded, and that wonÂ’t change if this bill gets stalled by a filibuster. During the shutdown, the Marines donÂ’t get paid, but Obamacare gets funded." David Freddosso saying whatever does not make whatever true or any where close to accurate. Take up your argument with Mark Levin. Of course the Marines and National Guard and Social Security benefits (etc.) get paid regardless of a temporary government shut down. I've lived through several government shut downs, and know Freddosso is full of his own shit.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 10:47 AM (MhA4j)

191 When people sign up for O'care and learn they can no longer see the regular doctor they'd been going to for years, trust me, they will turn against it fast.

Posted by: Serious Cat at September 23, 2013 02:20 PM (UypUQ)

Hasn't this been the case with Medicare/Medicaid? One's options are limited in those programs, and yet... no outcry.

Posted by: KG[/i][/b] at September 23, 2013 10:49 AM (p7BzH)

192 Democrat "school lunches" wtf? Nita Lowery NY

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 10:49 AM (MhA4j)

193 >>You mean like they got good and pissed at the Democrats in 2012? So Obamacare was implemented in 2012? You're not listening. First, it is almost impossible to beat an incumbent president which is why it rarely happens. Second, Obama, for all of the problems with the economy was still personally popular. Second, the last election was mostly along party lines with Indies throwing it to Obama. We need an issue that unites people in disgust across party lines to get rid of a specific law. Like this. >The poll data is clear and cuts across party lines: 92 percent of the public does not think it is right that Congress and their staff are letting the Obama administration exempt them from the costs of Obamacare. Yet it seems many in Congress still want to dismiss these findings in hopes that these sentiments won't translate into actual voter preferences. http://tinyurl.com/k4ousfv You can't get 92% of Americans to say they like puppies and rainbows. People will hate this law when it gets fully implemented. That is our best hope and it was since the 2012 election.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 23, 2013 10:50 AM (g1DWB)

194 Anyone know if this is true: From Army Times: http://tinyurl.com/lukqb66 With one week to go before a potential partial government shutdown, a key Republican lawmaker is warning troops to be financially prepared for the possibility of not getting a mid-October paycheck. Rep. C.W. Â“BillÂ” Young, R-Fla., chairman of the House defense appropriations subcommittee, warns that the troopsÂ’ morale and readiness will suffer even though the Defense Department does not shut down when its funding stops. Â“All military personnel will continue to serve and accrue pay, but will not actually be paid until appropriations are available,Â” Young said. The mid-month payday would be the first in jeopardy. Additionally, he said most travel and permanent change of station moves Â“would be delayed or canceledÂ” and benefits for line-of-duty deaths also would be suspended.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at September 23, 2013 10:51 AM (bCEmE)

195 Unfortunately we'll be back next week facing the same crisis. Democrat Nita Lowery NY As if waving a magic wand would make a crisis disappear.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 10:51 AM (MhA4j)

196 It's such revisionist history bullshit.

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 23, 2013 02:25 PM (yemTi)

You are the only one making up shit. I have already caught you lying through your teeth putting words in Cruz's mouth and yet here you are, still doing it.

What the fuck is your deal, dude? Did Cruz murder your firstborn or something?

Posted by: KG[/i][/b] at September 23, 2013 10:51 AM (p7BzH)

197 Tami Mark Levin assured that so long as taxes are collected, payments are made, though the non-essential employees may or may not get paid for their time off, depending on a vote when Congress reconvenes to determine how to disperse moneys.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 10:54 AM (MhA4j)

198 Hey I hear the President of Iran is coming here with a small suitcase

I'll vote for fresh batteries in the Geiger counter.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at September 23, 2013 10:55 AM (JNUY4)

199 ObamaCare will cure those who are blinded by rigid ideology. D-NY Levin //snarked

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 10:55 AM (MhA4j)

200 When people sign up for O'care and learn they can no longer see the regular doctor they'd been going to for years, trust me, they will turn against it fast. Except for the free shit army, which will get their insurance for free....and those that have extra perks, exemptions, and waivers, (Nasty Pelosi admitted this weekend that dem leadership is working to provide special govt copays to certain union members). Oh, and those who will profit from it. One other, the press, because Obama is so dreamy. There are more people that want their free shit, than there are engaged people that don't want to pay for it. The press already whistles past the graveyard when it comes to reporting the state of this economy, the explosion in part time jobs, etc, etc, etc...all of which can be neatly pinned on Obama's lapel. You really don't expect them to turn against it, and report the truth, do you?

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at September 23, 2013 10:57 AM (sCynV)

201 Mark Levin assured that so long as taxes are collected, payments are made, though the non-essential employees may or may not get paid for their time off, depending on a vote when Congress reconvenes to determine how to disperse moneys. Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 02:54 PM (MhA4j) Well, I like Mark and all but he's not the one actually sending out the paychecks. The guy they're quoting is a R from the House defense appropriations subcommittee. Is he wrong?

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at September 23, 2013 10:57 AM (bCEmE)

202 And this is at the bottom of that article: "Rep. Hal Rogers, R-Ky., the House Appropriations Committee chairman, agreed with YoungÂ’s assessment that troops wonÂ’t get paid if the government runs out of money."

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at September 23, 2013 11:01 AM (bCEmE)

203 195 182 David Freddosso saying whatever does not make whatever true or any where close to accurate.

"Obamacare is baked into law, and the president has the power to defend it"- http://bit.ly/1cvVTC4

"CRS: 'Government Shut down' Does Not Shut Down Obamacare"- http://1.usa.gov/13X3gPp

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 23, 2013 11:01 AM (YjDyJ)

204 Thus far, the R Senators are standing together. They are all decrying the effects of a government shutdown while speaking highly of the benefits of the bill itself, putting the potential shutdown back on the Dems.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 23, 2013 11:02 AM (DmNpO)

205 Umm, doesn't this put the shutdown squarely onto the shoulders of the Republicans?
You can't blame the Democrats if it's republicans preventing a vote from happening.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at September 23, 2013 02:16 PM (SO2Q

Don't worry about who gets the blame. Every bad thing that happens is blamed on Republicans anyway, so they might as well do the right thing.

Posted by: troyriser at September 23, 2013 11:03 AM (2jF2B)

206 Rep. John Carter R-TX Rep. John Culberson R-TX The constitutional majority in the House has done its job repeatedly sending bills to the Senate to pass to ensure that the Military personnel will continue to receive their timely pay, and their supplies to ensure their performance as ordered by the CinC. Rep. Peter Visclosky D-Indiana, confess his error. Article 1 Appropriation Bill organization in advance v. Continuing Resolution, "leading from behind" House Congress considers a "success" just passing one CR after the next, never passing a single Appropriation Bill based upon a BUDGET. Air Force and Missile Defense cuts...

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 11:05 AM (MhA4j)

207 Lois Lerner retired and I didn't get her anything!

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 23, 2013 11:07 AM (ZshNr)

208 The guy they're quoting is a R from the House defense appropriations subcommittee. Is he wrong? Posted by: Tami at September 23, 2013 02:57 PM (bCEmE) We'll have to look into it to know. But this much is generally true, everyone speaks according to his own agenda, under duress from those to whom he is indebted. When government shut downs occurred previously, it wasn't as if the Military was not paid for services still being rendered. So long as the taxes are still being collected, payments due to meet contracts for services rendered are made. Yes, priorities affect whether one's role in government is deemed "essential". PC or not, there are unessential government employees. But our troops are essential and constitutionally protected as an intrinsic part of essential governance. ObamaCare, on the other hand, though "passed" by vote "to be" is not yet been addressed by a Budget (blame Reid) nor has yet been legitimized with any House appropriation of tax funds. It doesn't even "exist" before Oct. 1.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 11:14 AM (MhA4j)

209 211 House Congress considers a "success" just passing one CR after the next, never passing a single Appropriation Bill based upon a BUDGET.

This fiscal year, they have passed both the Military Construction-VA and Defense appropriations bills, among others.

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 23, 2013 11:15 AM (YjDyJ)

210 R-VA Frank Wolf, Appropriations Committee 2014-Dec.2015 funds for services Pass the CR

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 11:18 AM (MhA4j)

211 213 ObamaCare, on the other hand, though "passed" by vote "to be" is not yet been addressed by a Budget (blame Reid) nor has yet been legitimized with any House appropriation of tax funds. It doesn't even "exist" before Oct. 1.

"Most Obamacare funding comes from a mandatory spending that is built into the law and doesn't have to be approved by Congress from year to year, in the same way that Medicare and other entitlements are automatically financed. For example, only $13 billion in discretionary spending is due Obamacare in fiscal 2014, according to projections, while $71 billion is due the program in mandatory spending."

http://bit.ly/1cvVTC4

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 23, 2013 11:18 AM (YjDyJ)

212 214, yes. I noted what the gentleman was saying from the Floor.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 11:19 AM (MhA4j)

213 217 214, yes.

I noted what the gentleman was saying from the Floor.

My mistake. I would remind Rep. Visclosky that Harry Reid has a large stack of bills on his desk, including all of the appropriations bills.

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 23, 2013 11:25 AM (YjDyJ)

214 216. Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 23, 2013 03:18 PM (YjDyJ) Yes. Mandatory spending in the same way that Medicare/entitlements are automatically financed. Not until Oct. 1 when the 2014 year begins. It hasn't started yet. And shouldn't be allowed to begin without the consent of the American people who will be forced to buy this no choice intrusion. Rand Paul's Bill would require annual Congressional approval for at least 5 years, not to skip Congressional oversight over the annual automatic financing/ObamaCare. As per Government Shutdowns, the 2008 Republican Party National Platform encouraged shut downs rather than enabling congressional pork, overspending and the lack of a Budget to bankrupt the USA. So what; that was then and this is now?

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 11:30 AM (MhA4j)

215 Whoa! Sen.Bill Nelson, D-FLORIDA Democrat laying US economic default at the feet of GHWB Republicans not still holding sway. Funny, when a politician admits aloud what he never meant to say.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 11:36 AM (MhA4j)

216 "What the fuck is your deal, dude? Did Cruz murder your firstborn or something?"

Why do you hate Obamacare? Is it because of the president's skin color?

Posted by: Shoot Me at September 23, 2013 11:37 AM (qiXMt)

217 Maybe I'm too familiar with Senate process, but if Cruz really has 48 votes to defund, and they stick to the plan, then he can force this to a shutdown.

Step 1 - No cloture on the current bill until Reid agrees that the vote to strip the Obamacare funding from the current bill must also reach cloture.

Step 2 - Reid keeps his promise (unlikely as that sounds, he probably will, welching on agreements in the Senate is a quick way to become the former leader)

Step 3 - Vote to strip the defund language doesn't reach cloture. Now the actual bill with the defund language must go to a vote.

Step 4 - Now it becomes interesting. The Dems either vote for the CR with defund, or vote against the CR. That will be a challenging vote for Pryor and Landrieu.

Step 5 - Assuming Reid can keep his caucus together, then the CR is rejected and everything heads back to the House with a shutdown looming.

I actually like the plan, it isn't as complex as people think. It helps that the bill being considered is pretty simple. Only three options, CR, CR+defund, or no CR.

A lot of RINOs are going to be put in a tough position on the first cloture vote. That is why McCain is so pissed off, he is being made to put his money where his mouth is. Something that he despises. Any Republican who votes for cloture is going to have a very pissed off base to deal with.

Posted by: Dave in Fla at September 23, 2013 11:43 AM (h9i8W)

218 145 Hey I hear the President of Iran is coming here with a small suitcase to bring obama's balls back with him to Iranhy

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 23, 2013 02:17 PM (9Xc5j)

**************

I hear he travels light. An altoid tin will do.

Posted by: gracepmc at September 23, 2013 11:46 AM (rznx3)

219 HR 59 save school Moocher lunches! 2nd Democrat "school lunch" speech. HR Opposition, D-Stalwell, Republicans should awake from ideological wet dream. Vast right wing conspiracy insists the US pay China before paying our own employees.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 11:46 AM (MhA4j)

220 D-Oregon Rep.Blumenauer: Approp. Comm. given a mandate that House Republicans will never approve. Let the regular order of the Side Show proceed.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 11:49 AM (MhA4j)

221 219 214 It hasn't started yet. And shouldn't be allowed to begin without the consent of the American people who will be forced to buy this no choice intrusion.

They funded it in advance. The Republican-controlled House has successfully pushed for some cuts but the law has obviously not been completely defunded.
http://herit.ag/vV2GNV

"Will House GOP rescind Obamacare funding appropriation?" (March 10, 2011)- bit.ly/fCXlyq

"Little Media Lies About ObamaCare"- http://bit.ly/1fk8LN1

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 23, 2013 11:52 AM (YjDyJ)

222 Harry Reid and Ted Cruz should just settle all this Obamacare stuff, filibustering, 60 vote thresholds the old fashioned way...pistols at dawn.

Posted by: Bluedog803 at September 23, 2013 11:56 AM (kBWdQ)

223 Better to not try at all then right miss80s. Don't do anything just like we shouldn't have done anything about Paul Ryan's attempts to get amnesty through the house.

Posted by: Buzzion at September 23, 2013 11:59 AM (/JtA0)

224 C-SPAN 2 Cruz v. Reid It's On Now

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 12:10 PM (MhA4j)

225 227. Reid said from the onset, he can't argue so well as Cruz.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 12:10 PM (MhA4j)

226 Reid, Mr. President, I try my best to abide by the really obnoxious Senate Rules. unbelievably pompous Harry

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 12:12 PM (MhA4j)

227 228 Better to not try at all then right miss80s. Don't do anything just like we shouldn't have done anything about Paul Ryan's attempts to get amnesty through the house.

Once again, you are putting words in my mouth, and on both subjects. With regards to the former, I have already outlined what I would do. Furthermore, it is possible to respect someone while still disagreeing with their overall strategy.

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 23, 2013 12:14 PM (YjDyJ)

228 Pelosi: ObamaCare has the Biblical power to cure!

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 23, 2013 12:34 PM (MhA4j)

229 Brilliant!

So, after a filibuster which gives Reid cover for not passing the CR - "Republican obstructionism" - the idea is that the inner, sweet old granddaddy part of Reid will soften his heart, and he will agree to help the GOP kill ObamaCare funding (except nearly all of the funding isn't in the budget, but that's for another fairy tale) just to show what a nice guy he is?

These guys are Sooper Geniuses, all right.

Posted by: Adjoran at September 23, 2013 12:47 PM (473jB)

230 Only in America could the phrase "the move to strip can be filibustered" have absolutely NO prurient interest and actually make sense when applied to the legislative "branch"

GOD, I love this country!!!!!11eleventy!!!!

Posted by: Blacksmith8 at September 23, 2013 03:25 PM (3zW8P)

231 OK .. I'm tired of this BS here. HOW MANY VOTES PASSED OBAMACARE? Think about that, and then STFU about how Neophyte Cruz is in this vote. FFS Ace .. pay attention

Posted by: Judy at September 23, 2013 03:59 PM (LE2+n)

232 236 is right, it aint that fucking complicated, its senate politics, the left plays this game day in and day out, the contrivances used to passed obamacare should in and of itself engendered a march on washington and several senate leaders being tarred and feathered, if not hung from light poles.... but ace has is confused by a vote on cloture? Fuck dude, moron is ironic right?

Posted by: pace of quaids at September 23, 2013 06:11 PM (i9tfZ)

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