1 Ace is still a young man.

2 Ace before noon?!

3 it was a Good Try!  Now go to the line by that table for your juice box, cup of donut holes and participation trophy.

4 Let the recriminations commence!(actually,they commenced before a vote was cast)

5 Airing of grievances? Festival has come early this year.

6 If you talk about "blowing it" a Clinton shows up. It's like catnip

7 In before ace gets accused of being a RINO in Ewok's clothing.

8 hey i think i said some of this post in a comment in the last post.

jindal aside,  considering the funding , the media, and the location and starting from way behind it went waaay  better than  I expected.

9 Media spin:  despite the problems with implementation of the Great and Worshipful Affordable Care Act, Democratic candidate Terry McCauliff won a clear victory in the Virginia governor's race, keeping a once red state solidly blue.

10 Polls done by PPP. newspapers, and the MFM are worthless.

11 The new and improved RINO ace. --- Damn! Y'all type fast.

12 More classic libertarian, not RINO. Never been an establishment man. Not a "joiner" . He just wants to win

13 How many big races in 2013?  Yet they couldn't target some big money in this one?  So why the heck should anyone donate to the RNC then?  What are they spending it on if not elections?

It's not like they had to spread it among 57 states this year.

14 Feel the same way now. It seemed like pouring in money to help a guy down 10 with a few weeks to go would've been pointless, but if I could have it back I'd want the RNC to throw money at him. And I bet the RNC does too.

15 I keep seeing this thing about Jindle.  What did he have to do with an election in NJ?

16 I don't think it was ever really a 10 point race. For some reason those polls always overstate the Dem lead, which has the effect of demoralizing Republicans. Self-fulfilling prophecies. Again, the Bolling butthurt factor was probably the killer, as that intrparty fight dispirited donors. Suppose that the Virginia primary turned into a convention gambit had failed. Is there anyone who believes for 1 minute that Cuccinelli, as the elected AG of Virginia, would have failed to support Bolling for Governor?

17 Let the internecine war continue. Have a great day.

18 Two Governor races? How much did the RGA and the RNC spend on both? I'd like to see the numbers.

19 There sure seams to be a lot of blowing it in politics. Career Change?

20 Ah! Did a comment get zapped, or am I hallucinating RINO accusations now?

21 Yeah Ace I was taught something in OSUT that stuck with me...

one time is coincidence, two a pattern, 3 enemy action....

The GOP powers that be stated quite clearly last night that voting for a Clinton ganger is perfectly reasonable if you don't like the Republican.

Message received.

See you in 2016 NE GOP

22 I keep seeing this thing about Jindle. What did he have to do with an election in NJ?

Posted by: Vic at November 06, 2013 10:46 AM (zZbNF)

----------

I wonder that too.  Does it have to do with the fact that he's the Republican Governors chair?

23 19 cajun caret at November 06, 2013 10:47 AM (UZQM

Steve Schmidt and Rinse Prius....

the law firm of Genius and fucking Genius

24 >>There sure seams to be a lot of blowing it in politics.


Part and parcel of a good campaign and a good time, I say.

25 well we could always fix this by demanding

so Cons- out of the party, we don't need your shit!
Rinos -out of the party, we don't need your shit !

26

Ace,

Respectfully, this is garbage.  Stabbed in the back, whatever, I don't care how you put it.

 

You can't win if you don't get in the ring to fight.

 

You won't win if you keep saying your own cause is lost.

 

Do you ever think, in such an important state, the Democrats would have let their candidate get outspent 25 to 1!!!!!!!!!!!!  Regardless of how hard predicting the future is.  He was hurt by the shutdown????  That's laughable.

 

FUCK THE GOP ESTAB.  They need to be removed.  They keep fucking losing.  How long do we keep sending money to idiots that can't win fucking elections and sabotage or "defund" our own fucking candidates??

27

>>>>>The GOP powers that be stated quite clearly last night that voting for a Clinton ganger is perfectly reasonable if you don't like the Republican.

Which GOP powers that be would those be? And I'd like quotes, not "proof by absence". Dude was down 10 a week or so ago.

28 I think it had to have been at least near a 10-point race, because politicians do their own polls on these things. If the RGA/party/etc. saw a close election, even with the public polls so skewed, they'd have gone for it. Then again, the ACA website has been down for over a month, so you'd think we would have seen that movement much sooner than last week.

29 Polish firing squad now (or is that politically incorrect)?0

30 On July 8 Cuccineli had a 6 point lead in a Roanoke poll. The big brass didn't jump on board at that time. Sorry, Ace, but they did abandon him.

31 oh fiscal cons- demands out of the party!

32 Ace,

The problem here is the double standard of conservatives being expected to work tirelessly and donate generously to all Republican candidates, but the establishment Republicans being under no such strictures.

And of course the inability of Republicans to shut their fucking mouths about abortion, contraception and rape.

I have the solution, which I have discussed before: shock collars for all Republican candidates that fire automatically with any mention of these three words.

33 So yes, I think they "blew it," but I don't think they sabotaged Cuccinelli or deliberately tanked the election or any of the other Strong Form They're Out To Get Us type stuff. Bolling screwed him as well as othe Va pols. That's what the dems have that we don't. The ability to drink snort and sodomize your way to acceptance of defeat. They they come out the other end and support each other. I truly believe the Va. GOP cost him that race.

34 10 to 1, 25 to 1?  What's a little moolah among enemies? 

35 sorry to not be clear: Jindal is the chair of the Republican governor's Association (RGA).  For some reason, Cuccinelli's people are blaming the RNC less and the RGA more. I don't know why.

36 You would think the Republicans would want to go all-out for ANYONE opposing Bubba and Shrillery's pet candidate. But maybe not; I don't know nothin'. Just a voter-type who ditched the Rs in 2012 and hasn't cared since.

I don't know all that much about Teh Cooch, but anyone who stands against a Clinton Candidate deserves some support. Which he didn't get.

It was no stab in the back. Just Smart Politics, as played by the major parties.

37 gun happy freaks out of the party!

38 Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) hauls out a horror story..., that isn't actually so horrible, but anecdotes are all they have. Editorial after editorial, no questions by the Dems

39 I'm off to not have sexual relations with any women, whatsoever. . .  [ 'Hey, good looking, care to kiss it?' ]

40 I'm going to leave it to people who know more about this stuff to get into the nitty gritty,  but I'm going to have to assume there was SOME amount of the decision process that included the money people deciding not to support this guy was because he is who he is. 

41 So, mistakes were made, but no one is responsible, because, politics is hard and really complicated. This train of thought seems oddly familiar.

42 So, using this logic, we should only support candidates who sport double digit leads months prior to election day. That's the fighting spirit.

43 The inevitable " Bolling would have won " Tweets came last night from the people you would expect.

44 Posted by: prescient11 at November 06, 2013 10:49 AM (y8MBg) Eh, I think this is impractical. Part of the game is drawing your opponents in to get them to spend wildly in a race they actually can't win to prevent them from spending elsewhere in a race they can. If Truman North were here (I spoke with him yesterday actually) I'm sure he'd explain it better than me. So the RGA, looking for the trap, played it to cautiously and assumed there was a trap, where in reality there was a gold mine. It does, in fact happen. Had we dumped millions upon millions into a blow out, we'd be bitching that they wasted money that could have been used in the coming 2014 tide.

45 Ace, I think you do a bit of question begging here, which is frankly not your style. Cucinelli was down big, at least in part, BECAUSE there was no money going to his campaign. Few races are un winnable without financing. McCauliffe only built up a big lead after he began spending on the race. If someone asks you to kick in $100 fuel money for a trip to Vegas, and you refuse, and then the car runs our of gas in the middle of the desert, it would be odd to say, "I knew this trip was going to be awful, that's why I refused to chip in for gas."

46 I know that Jindal and Walker are chair and vice-chair respectively of the Governors Assoc, and that they both campaigned for Cuccinelli. 

47 Stabenow working her way through sob stories...

48 Eh. This failure had many fathers. Where were the "citizen bloggers" digging into the so-called "libertarian" candidate's finances? Why didn't we know he was a Dem plant until the last minute? Who encouraged McDonnell to piss all over the northern virginia business types (i.e. *donors*) with a tax hike? Who caught McDonnell's paw in the till? Cooch didn't help matters by trying to run as "another McDonnell" instead of as himself. Should the party apparatus have poured millions into trying to make a loser less loser-y? Maybe .. but they get a cut of the blame, not the whole pie. Mew

49 I don't think Bolling would have won; this is why politics isn't a real science, though. We can't test that theory in any real way. Heck, we don't know if Cuccinelli could have won if it was a few degrees colder or raining.

50 I'm so old I remember when Virginia's outgoing governor was being touted as a strong prospect for Romney's veep. But from what I can glean, believable allegations of corruption by McDonnell had a huge negative impact on the GOP brand. And it certainly dulled any attempts to use the Dem's own dirt against him.

51 Does anyone know how much RGA/RNC money Christie received in contrast? I ask because that's a race where very early on it was clear Christie was running away with things If similarly low RGA/RNC dollars were allocated, that would further support the "future can't be predicted" argument for not spending when outcomes are anticipated as certain. If not, then what? What would the rationale be for throwing lots of money into Christie's certain victory but not Cucc's certain loss? Of course, without knowing the numbers, I'm not sure what to think.

52

And one more thing, the website has nothing to do with people's negative perception of zerocare.  Nothing.

 

It's the law's actual effect, which is hurting millions of Americans in really bad ways.

 

And which a few wacko birds tried to stop before they were, you guessed it, stabbed in the back by the fucking democrats in our own party.

 

I know, it's just crazy, a lost cause, a can't win strategy, to try and do what they went to congress to fucking do.  God forbid they actually try to fulfill their election promises.

 

Things WWII generals never fucking said.

53 >>>an't win if you don't get in the ring to fight.

You won't win if you keep saying your own cause is lost

...

this is an emotional argument which completely ignores the fact that money is not in fact an inexhaustible resource, and that resources, therefore, are conserved or expended according to likely impact.

It's the other party which pretends that money is inexhaustible and just comes from the Big Money Pile which we can pull our wheelbarrows up to whenever we like.

54 Wait, so conservatives are dumb because they aren't fired up to go after purple states like Iowa, Minnesota, etc., but we should give the establishment a pass for not exerting more than a token effort in Virginia? Seriously?

55 Stabmenow.  Make it stop.

56 And why would the Democrats throw huge resources behind Mcauliffe if they thought he would win easily?

57 If there's one thing I hope we can all agree on in the wake of the Cuccinelli loss, it's that the winning formula for the GOP in the 21st century must be an aggressive embrace of 19th century anti-sodomy laws.

Why, the campaign commercials for 2014 and 2016 virtually write themselves.

"You're thinking about putting *that*, *there*? Nuh-uh. Don't even think about it."

Brought to you by the Republican Party. We may never win office and make policy, but we're sure big on policy about orifices.

58 It seems to me that the only thing- THE ONLY THING that the GOP-e spends their money on is consultants.

There were but a handful of races to spend money on.

SPEND THE MONEY FUCKERS!!!

59 27 WAGOPinTX at November 06, 2013 10:49 AM (T/CkD)

The Rove gang...Bolling Team....

Bolling just taught me the above lesson, just like Dick "Dick" Lugar and John "Dick" McCain over the years...

dude was probably never twenty points down and maybe if the "fuck doing something just stand there" wing of the party hadn't spent you know two fucking weeks acting as the Hairy reed back-up singers on the shutdown there wouldn't have been this raging clusterfuck.

60 Polls done by PPP. newspapers, and the MFM are worthless.

Posted by: Vic at November 06, 2013 10:45 AM (zZbNF)

Really?

The NY Times' Nate Silver got every single state correct in 2012. He used MSM polls.

61
We will continue relying on Carl Rove to provide inside baseball analysis so our limited funds are appropriated properly to get the most bang for the buck. 

62 >>>And one more thing, the website has nothing to do with people's negative perception of zerocare. Nothing.

what?  Nothing?  Are you on crack?

Obama and Obamacare are losing support for three reasons:  Lying, Harming millions of people despite promising not to, and general incompetence. 

The first two are often excusable in politics, at least by strong partisans.  The last never is.  The website demonstrates his incomptence.

63

It's not just the "establishment" that didn't give Cooch money.  What about the "RINO-hunters" who gave a combined 20 million to Sharron Angle and Cristine O'Donnell three years ago?  Did they think Cooch was a squish or something?

64 The RNC did not support him because he was not the "establishment" candidate pure and simple.  We saw that going into the race.

65 Well at least ms Lindsay won't have that issue, it seems Christie's number one priority as head of rga is to help her in sc. I AM A SEVERE CONSERVATIVE, NOT A MODERATE.

66 Lie viciously about your opponent? Check. Relentless cheerleading media to encourage and repeat the lies? Check. Fund a third-party candidate to muddy the waters and distract from your own sleazy candidate? Check. Consistently tout biased polls? (Let's face it, that wasn't all "movement" some of those polls were double-digits.) Check. Spend ungodly amounts of money from the rent-seeking 1%ers who dominate your party? Check. Win by a slim margin with a minority of the vote? Check. Democratic path to victory. And the Libertarian party should be ashamed of themselves. I don't care anymore whether it made the difference (I think all third-party candidates distract and keep scrutiny from the Democrat, regardless of how the third-party voters "would have voted."). When was the last time an actual libertarian ran under the LP banner, outside of the Presidential election?

67 Cuccinelli was down big because his opponent completely controlled the narrative. If you asked a low-information-voter what they knew about Cuccinelli, "Wants to outlaw birth control" would come up before "Republican" and probably "running for Governor."

The worst thing about War On Women campaigning is that it works.

68
1.  Were there any other undecided races yesterday of potential national importance? Nope.

2.  Did Team Republican still funnel millions to winning by a mile Christie so he could run up his tote?  Yes.

3.  How much money did the RNC have on hand to use? 11.2 million at the end of September.

The RNC and company had the means and opportunity to intervene decisively in Virginia, but not the interest.

And as to the polls, spending some money on their own polls, instead of waiting to see what the Washington Post was going to spin their way, would have been prudent.

69 Bottom line: Save $$ for McConnell and Boehner's re-election attempt.

Again, fuck the GOP in the ass with grenades.

70 37 Willow,

Look the GOP message needs to be gay marriage only, no guns, socialism a half step slower, and hyperregulatory fiat used as a partisan weapon is ducky....

that is what I have learned these last 5 years.

71 The NY Times' Nate Silver got every single state correct in 2012. He used MSM polls.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 06, 2013 10:54 AM (oJ5Fd)

I don't read the NYT.

72 Anybody from VA know whether Cantor tried to help Cucc locally?

73 And the chicken thinks he's got it bad.

74 The website is a huge, public, visual on how this is a screw up. Millions of people have seen the video of people trying to log on to the site and failing, on live TV. People know how websites work, and that you should be able to access things quickly. This isn't a Geocities image gallery during the mid-90s. It is a high-tech thing built by the government -- it should be smooth.

It was not. That image is more powerful than people you don't know having to pay higher deductibles to get what you're told is better health care than they had before. Simple images persuade best.

75

this is an emotional argument which completely ignores the fact that money is not in fact an inexhaustible resource, and that resources, therefore, are conserved or expended according to likely impact.

 

By that logic, ZERO dollars should have been committed to  support  Cuccinelli.  After all, why throw  ANY  good money at a losing candidate?

76 Wasn't  this the race with the   faux Libertarian candidate that was funded by one of TFG's buddies  that was only revealed  yesterday?

77 >>>64The RNC did not support him because he was not the "establishment" candidate pure and simple. We saw that going into the race.

Posted by: Vic at November 06, 2013 10:55 AM (zZbNF)

 

The party bosses in VA literally fixed the election for him.

78 Susana made 8 stops in NJ with Christie on Mon. They couldn't roll her out in NoVa with all the Hispanic voters there?

79 I would ask Sebelius if she has in her notes even a *single* angry letter from someone who has lost their insurance due to Obamacare..., even [/]one ?

80 I don't think the RNC has as much money as they used to. I don't know about y'all but everytime they asked me for money I told them to get FKD.

81 As Politico’s James Hohmann reported, ”The Republican National Committee spent about $3 million on Virginia this year, compared to $9 million in the 2009.” And as the Roanoke Times noted, in 2009, the Chamber of Commerce spent $973,000 on Bob McDonnell, but “his year, the chamber gave Cuccinelli nothing.” snip~ And the DGA even went out of their way to mock the RGA’s strategy, saying: “The DGA’s wise investments stood in stark contrast to those of the Republican Governors Association. Despite laws in Virginia that allow for unlimited financial contributions and complete coordination between the campaigns and outside groups, the RGA tried to run a different campaign than their own candidate – a puzzling strategy that made both the Cuccinelli campaign and the RGA less effective.” Seems like a whole lotta R organizations blew it.

82 I'm more curious why you assumed the Website of Ineffable Failure would be up and running, given the track record of those responsible. As my fave Founder said, there never was a good knife made from bad steel...

83 Uh oh.

84 evidently the RGA's assessment was Cooch wasn't a strong candidate and VA becomes more democrat leaning with every dollar added to the federal budget. The RGA does have a much better track record than the RNC when it comes to supporting candidates. We've probably passed the tipping point where any GOP candidate running on shrinking gov't won't be able to win in VA no matter how bad the Dem is.

85 as torquewrench notes, Cuccinelli had a lot of positions that put him well out of the mainstream of Virginia politics.  Virginia is no longer a red state.  It is purple, and even bluish purple.

Cuccinelli, for some reason, fought to retain sodomy laws.  And fought hard.  He even set up a website to bring them back, after they were struck down.

  Why this quixotic quest? I don't know. He claims they're useful in locking up pedophiles. But there are laws against sex with children; I do not understand why you need to generally criminalize oral sex and anal sex in order to lock up people who molest children.

86

I would be inclined to agree with Ace if McAuliffe had polled over 50% consistently, but he didn't.

 

Cucinelli pissed off the establishment and they stayed on the sidelines.  They would rather lose the seat than let a rebel gain traction.

 

Troubling times in the kingdom.

87

Slightly OT, but interesting.  HotAir has an article up wherein the Democrat challenger in New Jersey complained how the party establishment screwed her over.

 

 

Seems to be something going around.

88 What I have noticed about MFM polls is that they always w/o fail favor the democrat by a wide margin right up until the election and then they tighten up so they can say they were accurate.

89 Close encounter with the barrel there..

90 GOP-e has got to prioritize the money thusly.

Presidential Races
Governor Races
Senate
House
Local

There were only two governor races one in which the incumbant was a fucking lock.

So that means they only had to spend on one governor race and they didn't.

FUCK GOP-e

91

Ace,

 

In VA, which is a very important swing state for 2016, the GOP just let a Clinton operative become governor.  And our candidate was outspent 25 to 1 and they let a fake libertarian candidate in and didn't even find out until the end that he was an Obama operative.

 

If someone as smart as you can't see this as a total and complete fuck up and that we need to replace the mother fucking idiots running this party, we are truly doomed.

 

I mean seriously, this is unacceptable.  It is our money that the GOP has, not theirs.  Spend it on OUR fucking candidates.  This was not a run for an Indiana mayor.  IT WAS THE GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA.  There is not one excuse, not one.

92 Nova donors prolly rely on government contracts and government workers as customers/clients. If government is the main industry supporting your business, then it is in your self interest to support big government. Govt has grown exponentially in VA/MD/DC. I think its a wonder he did as well as he did

93 I don't read the NYT.

Posted by: Vic at November 06, 2013 10:56 AM (zZbNF)

Then stop making blanket statements.

94 >>> I'm more curious why you assumed the Website of Ineffable Failure would be up and running, given the track record of those responsible.

because like Obama, I've never managed anything, and when you've never managed anything, you assume everything is easy, and accomplished by magic.

95
Many members of our base are not satisfied with last nights results, but I can state without equivocation, we went down to defeat with grace and style.

96 Shot: "While I can fault the RGA and RNC and big-pocket donors for not seeing that Obamacare would tighten up a once-unwinnable race into a winnable one, I can't fault them that much, because Predicting the future is hard." Chaser: @43 The inevitable " Bolling would have won " Tweets came last night from the people you would expect.

97

>>>>>The Rove gang...Bolling Team....

Bolling just taught me the above lesson, just like Dick "Dick" Lugar and John "Dick" McCain over the years...

dude was probably never twenty points down and maybe if the "fuck doing something just stand there" wing of the party hadn't spent you know two fucking weeks acting as the Hairy reed back-up singers on the shutdown there wouldn't have been this raging clusterfuck.

 

 

So no quotes, and something about how the shutdown that hurt Cuccinelli in NoVa would have helped him if it...lasted longer? I have no love for anyone who can't line up behind the candidate, but there is no vast RINO-wing conspiracy--the story nationally is that there are a handful of greedy, cozying senators (and Pete King) and in Virginia there were greedy, cozying land developers that threw McAuliffe a truckload of money against a more populist, SoCon-tagged GOP candidate.

98 "What would the rationale be for throwing lots of money into Christie's certain victory but not Cucc's certain loss?"

I don't know how many times this has to be said.

People like to back winners. People like to place bets on sure things.

A big part of the donor class think of politics as nothing more or less than an influence racket. They give money because they want friends in office who are indebted to them for that money. Party affiliation doesn't matter that much.

Giving money to guys who are way behind in the polls typically just results in losing the money. Simple as that. If you want candidates who draw donor cash, don't nominate weak crappy candidates with strong odds of failure. Like Cuccinelli.

In fact, much of Terry Mac's vaunted fundraising was quite likely due to Cooch being such a poor chance to win from the get-go. The donor class went with the expected winner. Quelle surprise.

99

I just don't understand why the GOP would "give up" the VA governor battle, no matter what the polling said.  VA is a battleground state and if you want to win nationally, you kind of need to get the battleground states voting your way.

 

Allowing the DNC and McAwful to frame not only Cuccinelli but the GOP and Tea Party as well only makes the overall GOP goals harder.

 

McAwful was a pretty easy target.  He's a DNC fundraising shithead.  If you can't away at an idiot like McAwful, punch your card and make way for someone who can. 

 

 

100 Obenshain has a 200+ lead after all votes have been tallied. Next is a recount. Better to be ahead, than behind, but the Dem theives are on the move

101 >>>In VA, which is a very important swing state for 2016, the GOP just let a Clinton operative become governor. And our candidate was outspent 25 to 1 and they let a fake libertarian candidate in and didn't even find out until the end that he was an Obama operative.

what the hell do you mean they "let a fake libertarian candidate in"?

What are you suggesting? That we have some power to block people from the ballot?

all you're doing is raging.  Fine.  if you want to rage about reasons Cuccinelli lost, let's make sure we blame ourselves for not realizing the shutdown's effect on government-worker-central Virginia, and also for Cuccinelli's hard embrace of stuff like anti-sodomy laws.

This defeat took a lot of teamwork by our side.

102 @91 Nova donors prolly rely on government contracts and government workers as customers/clients.... I think its a wonder he did as well as he did ^This.

103 71 Anybody from VA know whether Cantor tried to help Cucc locally?

Posted by: Voltaire's Crack at November 06, 2013 10:56 AM (gXtDC)

 

Someone last night mentioned that people Cantor has used in campaigns worked for McAsshole.

104 This defeat took a lot of teamwork by our side. Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 11:00 AM (/FnUH) Indeed, that fake Libertarian candidate should have been vetted and outed long ago.

105 77 Maybe Gov. Martinez would not like to be associated with KC's anti-sodomy crusade and other positions that would jeopardize her own (and by extension New Mexico's) future?

106 >>>
By that logic, ZERO dollars should have been committed to support Cuccinelli. After all, why throw ANY good money at a losing candidate?

yessss... and in poker, you're only supposed to fold or raise.  But most people are not good poker players, and so they hedge with in-between stuff, like calls.

Furthermore, the RNC and RGA, even if they think Cuccinelli is a loser, have to put some money into the race, so as to not signal they think he's a loser and take all chance away from him.

Plus they have to put in money so that... they will not be accused by the Perpetually Angry Base of tanking the race On Purpose Because They're Out To Get Us, which of course is happening anyway.

107 98. I hate the RNC, but I blames local Va GOP RINO's more.

This is on Eric Cantor, and Bolling. Bolling would not endorse Cucc, but Cantor is the Fucking US House Majority Leader!!!! He had the clout to Help Cuccinelli

108 I don't know why everyone is acting like these are binary options. It is not only possible but probable that Cuccinelli was a bad candidate, that Bolling was a passive aggressive bitch (not my first word choice btw), that donors withheld support and that oh noes vajayjay. From what I can tell, all of that is true. Now, I do blame the RNC and the Bolling camp in the VA GOP for refusing to abide by their own position of STFD and STFU and support the candidate. That works both way, you know. You want my time and treasure to support Romney? Fine. Then you have to give yours to support Cuccinelli. That's how horse trading works.

109

93 ace

 

Exactly. Strategy and sales are one thing.  Execution and delivery is another.

110 Ain't it interesting how Sebelius has the exact numbers to quote when her point supports the law but not a clue on the numbers when they would be adverse to her point.  Hmmmm,  methinks a game is afoot.

111 this permanent victimization mentality is really beneath us.  It's unattractive.  All I ever hear anymore is how the Virtuous We are being Betrayed by the Corrupt Them.

112

>>Indeed, that fake Libertarian candidate should have been vetted and outed long ago.<<

 

By the media?  LOL.  Good one.

 

The GOP has to work twice as hard as the Democrats to get just a fraction of the results because the GOP doesn't have the media working for them.

113 The fact the defeat was a team effort is one thing I'm trying to get people to accept. Then, we have to find the weak links to keep winnable races from turning into losses. The biggest places are:

1. The "Nebulous Establishment"
2. The Candidates
3. The Voters

The easiest, smallest thing, to tweak is with the candidates. Changing the others is a much bigger issue.

114 Christie: AS defacto leader of the RGA, I will expend all of the money to get Lindsey Graham re-elected.

Fuck fuck fuckity fuck.

115 ace, if you are saying that the Republicans need to go pro-pedophile to win, then eff it. Let it burn brightly.

116 Someone last night mentioned that people Cantor has used in campaigns worked for McAsshole. Posted by: buzzion at November 06, 2013 11:01 AM (LI48c) perfect.

117 I know my comments on the Sebelius hearing are OT. At the slightest objection, I shall cease. Sebelius saying that rates in the private market will be lower..., in the face of ALL evidence.

118 Maybe some of the people on either side of the so-con non so-con or moderate.Conservative spectrum could please stop attacking each other and engaging in the circular firing squad, take a deep breath continue putting one foot in front of the other. Talk about the debacle of Obamacare, put it one your Facebook or Tweet, call your Republican reps and e-mail them and tell them to talk about it, put signs outside your house, donate to people you think can win who are more conservative. talk loudly at th watercooler ;^) because online pugilism is just no fun to watch.

119 Right Ace.   The Dems have been refining their attack on 'RTL' candidates for a while and they flood the airwaves with obvious lies like "this will end fertility treatments, birth control pills etc"    We need conservatives to learn to say something like "My personal views are not relevant since I don't believe the state should coerce moral issues via the law,  and I only want enough law or regulation to protect young women from the likes of Kermit Gosnell" 

120 In any case this election in NYC and VA has very little impact to most of the nation so I am not worried about it.  So VA has a Dem gov now.  That's their problem not mine.  And NYC has a commie mayor, again their problem not mine.  Just don't come begging for federal money when it goes bankrupt again.

121

It's a good thing I've already purged myself  from the party.  Now I don't have to listen to how  my unreasonable  demands for conservative,  smaller-government candidates and legislation are ruining our chances to elect smaller-government candidates who will propose and vote for smaller government.

 

BECAUSE I HATE TEH WIMMENS AND THEIR EEVUL  VAGINAS.

122 By the media? LOL. Good one. No, by the campaign. Every campaign has a reaserch dept. If they don't they're not much of a campaign.

123 Yes, how immigration is changing Republican states and RINOs want more Demoncrat voters.

124 This shows the benefit of cultivating an ignorant, stupid populace. 

125 Is there anyone who believes for 1 minute that Cuccinelli, as the elected AG of Virginia, would have failed to support Bolling for Governor?

Actually, I'm seeing a lot of this in the GOP.  "My ego isn't being massaged enough, I'm going to withhold my support."  See: Christie, Chris.

126 McConnell won by 20% in 2009, and did not help Romney at all.

The GOP only lost a net 1 seat in the assembly last night, and still hold a super majority. McAwful is a lame duck form day one, and does not help Hillary

127 because like Obama, I've never managed anything, and when you've never managed anything, you assume everything is easy, and accomplished by magic. I can see that. I guess the fact that web & programming are inside my realm of familiarity clued me in a bit. Of course it doesn't help that we and they have such diametrically differing definitions of "success"...

128

I have no background on the VA Gov race.  Small potatoes compared to many others national issues.  Having a super majority in a state house is far more valuable anyway.

 

And I can not wait until Mark Dayton is de-throned here in MN.

129 BECAUSE I HATE TEH WIMMENS AND THEIR EEVUL VAGINAS.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 06, 2013 11:04 AM (JDIKC)

-------------

You too? 

130

What are you suggesting? That we have some power to block people from the ballot?

 

Not saying its possible for the libertarian candidate, but you do realize that Republicans and Democrats both will often engage in some dirty tricks to get 3rd party candidates disqualified.  In 2004, Ralph Nader was on the ballot in Ohio, but at the polling places there were big signs saying he was disqualified and votes cast for him would not count.

131 DeBlasio really hurts Andrew Cuomo. He is the new crazy media star of NY

132 Here are some inside baseball things. Virginia allows unlimited "soft money." That is where McAuliffe's support came from, not the DNC. Money follows money. Cuccinelli was unable to raise as much in state as McDonnell - mostly because of the Bolling Butthurt. Without the dollars in state, the out of state soft dollars weren't going to come in, either.

133

Furthermore, the RNC and RGA, even if they think Cuccinelli is a loser, have to put some money into the race, so as to not signal they think he's a loser and take all chance away from him.

 

Plus they have to put in money so that... they will not be accused by the Perpetually Angry Base of tanking the race On Purpose Because They're Out To Get Us, which of course is happening anyway.

 

Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 11:02 AM (/FnUH)

 

-------------------------

 

Yes,  I can tell they're  terribly concerned with mollifying the base.

 

It's always the base's fault.  Always. 

 

Say goodbye  to your base, GOP. 

 

It will burn.

134 Bill Nelson (D-FL) saying that people were suckered into 'cheap' insurance. Hoodwinked. Obamacare will 'fix' that...., offers an anecdote. A lady who if she had become ill would have had, by his measure, inadequet insurance. Doesn't mention that inexpensive will be replaced with expensive

135 Teachable moment for the RNC?

Shirley you jest.

136 "In 2004, Ralph Nader was on the ballot in Ohio, but at the polling places there were big signs saying he was disqualified and votes cast for him would not count."

-- That's illegal, I thought. And if it isn't, it probably should be.

137 Sebelius saying that rates in the private market will be lower..., in the face of ALL evidence. Posted by: Mike Hammer at November 06, 2013 11:04 AM (aDwsi) What she's glossing over is that by 'lower' she means 'lower than WE projected.' Not lower than what rates people have/had.

138 >>>I don't know why everyone is acting like these are binary options. It is not only possible but probable that Cuccinelli was a bad candidate, that Bolling was a passive aggressive bitch (not my first word choice btw), that donors withheld support and that oh noes vajayjay. From what I can tell, all of that is true.

i would say all these things are true, or at least true to some extent.

Also, there was this Lt. Governor candidate, E.W. Jackson, a reverend who just wanted to talk about gays 'n stuff.

A lot of what he said is, to me, not really all that objectionable.  Well, not to me.  But I'm a conservative, so I'm used to... edgy social-issue statements, like that yoga might invite Satan in.  (Because when you "empty yourself," as eastern religions teach, Satan might take up residence in that emptiness.)

But when they top of your ticket already has the baggage of being an Anti-Sodomy Crusader who might also kinda want to ban birth control pills, how does the VA GOP decide that what he needs most of all is a running mate who will make the campaign all about precisely that which Cuccinelli is trying to make it NOT about?

EW Jackson, by the way, lost handily.  He was a drag on Cuccinelli, who was already dragged down by his own not-quite-in-sync-with-today's-virginia stances.

139 >>>ace, if you are saying that the Republicans need to go pro-pedophile to win, then eff it.

**

Cut, Jib...Letter!

140

>>No, by the campaign. Every campaign has a reaserch dept. If they don't they're not much of a campaign.<<

 

Unfortunately, campaigns need a good competent staff that are paid.  You can't depend just on volunteers.  If Cuccinelli didn't get enough funds, chances are his campaign staff suffered, not just his ability to hit the airwaves.

 

And, of course, there could be the problem of VA GOP staffers not wanting to work for Cuccinelli.

 

I'm glad the VA GOP has forgotten the old maxim of don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.  The next four years of McAsshole in the VA governor's mansion should be awesome.

141 There will be special election for Lt. Guv elect Northam's seat in Va. If the GOP wins that, they take the Senate

142 All I ever hear anymore is how the Virtuous We are being Betrayed by the Corrupt Them. Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 11:03 AM

Which is why the "We" should set up a third party with specific priorities and beliefs and abandon the weaselly, ball-less, entrenched, fat-and-happy (and, yes, corrupt) Them.

Republicans of the D.C. variety believe what they believe. We (supposedly) believe what we believe, and the gap is pretty damn wide.

So I suggest all the political junkies who are feeling butthurt quit saying "They oughtta" and "if only They would have done..." and set up an operation that mirrors what conservatives believe.

143 >>>It's a good thing I've already purged myself from the party. Now I don't have to listen to how my unreasonable demands for conservative, smaller-government candidates and legislation

you should have informed Cuccinelli about these demands.  He was pushing anti-sodomy laws.

144 Now I don't have to listen to how my unreasonable demands for conservative, smaller-government candidates and legislation are ruining our chances to elect smaller-government candidates who will propose and vote for smaller government.

The floggings will continue until morale is improved.

145 Now, I do blame the RNC and the Bolling camp in the VA GOP for refusing to abide by their own position of STFD and STFU and support the candidate. That works both way, you know. You want my time and treasure to support Romney? Fine. Then you have to give yours to support Cuccinelli. That's how horse trading works.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at November 06, 2013 11:02 AM (VtjlW)

Yup, and I am putting my checkbook/credit care into my purse and riding off into the sunset on my hobby horse.  I will be getting out my money and sending it ONLY for carefully selected CONSERVATIVE candidates... the RNC, moderates and Libertarians can kiss my pretty pink honky hiney.

146 If the donor class doesn't want to support grass root tea party candidates, whatever te you use, so be it. Just don't expect us to support their more establishment candidates, whatever term you call it.

147 ...while fleeing OUT of VA to FL(23k), GA(11K), NC(39k), TN(10k).


Not many places left to flee to.

What then?

148 The libertarian hurt McAsshole more I think we should run a pro-pot candidate in every race Would help alot

149 Even when the TruCons get their darling candidate, it's still somehow the "other" Republicans fault.

When you tell the "Establishment" Republicans (aka "electable Republicans) to fuck off every day, eventually they are going to "fuck off" and that means no money.  Good luck winning elections with door knockers and phone banks. 

The VA GOP voters "blew it" by nominating such a fatally flawed candidate, which is why no one wanted to donate money.  People don't like investing in lost causes, and the bigger bundlers usually do it because they want to hedge their bets and have access to a future Governor.

The tightening of the race was in SPITE of Cuccinelli and was a protest to ObamaCare.  Had a "normal" pro-life Republican been nominated, he would have easily put away McAuilffe.  Instead they nominated Virginia's version of Rick Santorum.

150 Nothing has changed. The secret as always is to find your workaround for whatever the govt is doing. Time to drill that extra well at the Texas ranch. Potable and irrigation water will be valuable after the crash.

151 I thought he was a lost cause.  Yes, the RNC blew it.  Why didn't they know what the backlash was going to be?  Why weren't they asking "What would you do if you couldn't keep your plan?"  They are always a step behind.

I watched Mike Inzi on Megyn Kelly's show and they had a clip of him in  Sep 2010 saying exactly what was going to happen with the new regs.  This was after Obama signed it into the "Law of the Land."

http://tinyurl.com/munpobt

152 Vile Scrunt Stephanie Miller wants a Gangsta Rap President. IDIOCRACY, it's not a clever satire but a portent of things to come. Paging President Camacho... When we look back in history, not only will he be seen as a great president, we will have had like 20 more black presidents and they will all be progressively blacker until every tea party head in the country explodes ...and I was hoping for a President Fiddy...is all I'm saying, right? (rap played in background to accompany Miller's rant). Whut! I hope future State of the Unions start with, S'up, America! Ladies and gentleman, the president of the United States, Ludacris. (Ludacris tune played) Yeah, here comes the first lady, she's the first lady in the bed. (Miller parroting Ludacris lyrics) Whut?! Whut?! And then the gangsta mic drop at the end of every State of the Union. Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs

153 28 I think it had to have been at least near a 10-point race, because politicians do their own polls on these things. If the RGA/party/etc. saw a close election, even with the public polls so skewed, they'd have gone for it. Posted by: Matt S. at November 06, 2013 10:49 AM (DSSR/) So ORCA still lives?

154 Cantor will never be Speaker. This race in Va will hang around his neck with Conservatives in the House.

Bolling is finished politically in Va

155 Do you know who won last night? Big Dumb. But let's keep analyzing the shit out of it.

156 I believe the anti-sodomy law stuff was from this very year-- you know, not ancient history or anything.

He had a website up to inform people about his crusade to put anti-sodomy laws back on the books.

The base has to be a little smart about this, for crying out loud.  You can't insist on candidates who have relatively poor chances of winning and then just keep telling "The Establishment," "Now that we've dug a hole for you guys, you should build a ladder and get us out of it."

157 you should have informed Cuccinelli about these demands. He was pushing anti-sodomy laws.

Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 11:08 AM (/FnUH)

 

--------------

 

 

So you keep telling me.  I have yet to see  any statements  from him that would lead me to believe that.  I have seen a shit-ton of inferences drawn.

158 96 WAGOPinTX at November 06, 2013 10:59 AM (T/CkD)

There's a bing or in your case most likely Goggle button right up in the right hand corner....

Tom Davis-“It’s a party that is disunited, in flux, in transition and defeated,” said Thomas M. Davis, the former Republican congressman. “We have nominated a ticket that Virginians don’t want to buy.”

The GOP overinvested emotionally in a defacto gift from the Donks to Chrispy Chreme a move several of us predicted HERE when Chrispy was blowing cum bubbles from SCOAMF last year.

The fight was in Virginia not in "My GOP Blue Heaven"...

whatever who gives a fuck...I need to get my MRI and get back to contracting and lay the groundwork to get the fuck out of here.

159 It is simply crap that donors have to be able to see the future in order to donate. The establishment donors have a deliberate campaign under way to destroy the Tea Party. What they will achieve is yet another Democrat victory in 2016. They are crony capitalists, fascists.

160 Not ORCA, specifically. But, pretty much always, politicians, parties, think tanks, etc., commission their own private polls. At least, I assumed that level of competency. Could be wrong.

161 Bill Nelson (D-FL) saying that people were suckered into 'cheap' insurance. Hoodwinked.

Bamboozled, and run amok?
(http://is.gd/WhMOWT)

162 And another thing, my whole adult life, I have dutifully voted for the R candidate for POTUS.  No more--you want to run Christie or his ilk, then you vote for him.  I will not.  It does not matter, Oklahoma will go to the R candidate, but, it will go without my vote.

163 Blue  state   progressives   behave   very   much   like   locusts.    They  lay   waste   to   whatever   locale   they're   in   then   move   on   to   the   next   resource  rich   environment   and   repeat.    Colorado,   Nevada,  Washington,   Virginia,   New   Mexico,   and   a   few   other   states   have   been   witness   to   this   phenomenon.    I   predict   North   Carolina,   Montana,   Georgia,   and   Arizona   will   be   the   next   to   succumb.   Only   the   bright   red   plain   states   running   from   Texas   to   North   Dakota   and   the   deep south  might    withstand   this   onslaught,   largely   due   to   geographic   and   environmental   factors   making   them   relatively   unattractive   places   for   relocation   for   those   who   used   to   a   life   of   leisure.

164 ...yoga might invite Satan in. (Because when you "empty yourself," as eastern religions teach, Satan might take up residence in that emptiness.)

**



Hmmm...Second look at Yoga pants and slouching dog position??

165 149. Mike Enzi is a RINO. he sponsored the bill in the US Senate to establish a National Internet Tax

166 yeah, i don't buy the CW that RNC/estabs blew it in VA. sure, they helped--they helped plenty, but they didn't blow it. what blew it, in a nutshell, is the electorate. period.
VA is no longer a purple state. it's solid blue. the elite progs/bureaucrats/lowinfos/illegals/college lemmings in N. VA made the race unwinnable for ANY republican. the race shouldn't have even been close. in a sane world (with a sane electorate) the Rs should have been able to run a 4x convicted pedophile against a mountebank of human scum like mcauliffe and won it in a walk. but we don't live in a sane world anymore. this is what = #DOOM on the national level, too. it's all about the electorate. we don't have the votes anymore. VA may as well be MD for all the electoral good it does us, and MD is nothing more than an extension of DC anyway, so there ya go.
ditto on the national scene. its #DOOM all the way down. we may retain the house, but if we do it will still be led and heavily populated by the same squish rino estab corp whore conglomerate we have in the senate, which, if we somehow manage to retake it, it will be a pyrrhic victory at best because they're going to rubber stamp every O-appointee and vote w/the Ds on amnesty anyway.
so what's the takeaway from last night? who's the big winner? it ain't christie, i can tell you that. it ain't the tea party either (if i read one more simpering 'oh but cucinelli's razor thin loss is a big win for the tea party' my asshole is gonna chew tobacco). the big winner is hillary clinton.
to be current and topical: a good buddy of mine made the MD/DC/VA analogy to the capital in "hunger games". and that could extend to the national electorate as well. they control all major urban centers, where most voters live, even in solid red states which, unfortunately don't have enough electoral votes to make a difference.
so who's gonna be katniss? christie? give me a f'n break. i'll be damned if i'm gonna vote for christie in 16--and don't kid yourself, he all but sealed it last night. it's a done deal. write it down. who else could it be? cruz? even if he somehow manages to miraculously win the nomination, he's not electable on a nat'l level. not with this electorate. this electorate voted for obama...twice...on purpose...
so who does that leave? jeb bush? please...
jindal? see cruz above
walker? nobody even knows who he is...
nor will i vote for whatever pathetic soros/ofa-financed "libertarian" candidate they throw in there either, regardless of whether they have tea party backing or not (frankly, if the tea party backs a libertarian in 16 they might as well fold up their tents and go home forever. if nothing else i hope to christ they learned that in VA last night). i'll sit on my hands first.
and that pretty much covers the nut right there
hillary clinton will be president in 16
and nothing is going to stop her
#DOOM

167 Pat Roberts (R-KS) Points out that Sebelius and Co. have steadfastly refused to acknowledge that the system was not ready..., even when they knew that it was not. Points out that people are compelled to submit personal information before being allowed to price plans.

168 >>>I watched Mike Inzi on Megyn Kelly's show and they had a clip of him in Sep 2010 saying exactly what was going to happen with the new regs. This was after Obama signed it into the "Law of the Land."

Enzi, yes, and he was good.

Real good.

He laid it out.  he predicted everything that's happening.  All he had to do was actually read the law and read the regulations, which most Democrats couldn't be bothered with.

169 148 Meremortal, Low Info Mofo at November 06, 2013 11:09 AM (1Y+hH)

Don't forget to either have a lot of kids or some hand handy...water rights were war material in Texas...

I am looking at budget desalinity station options myself.

170 When we look back in history, not only will he be seen as a great president, we will have had like 20 more black presidents and they will all be progressively blacker until every tea party head in the country explodes Better ring up a half dozen custom 747s while you at it. Those rappers would take AF1 to take a shit.

171 And then the gangsta mic drop at the end of every State of the Union.

She's plagiarizing Mike Judge and doesn't even know it.

172 you should have informed Cuccinelli about these demands. He was pushing anti-sodomy laws. Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 11:08 AM (/FnUH) Again, if the GOP needs to go pro-pedophile to win, we are done here.

173

Oh Bum Phillips how we miss you.  I will now comment on behalf of Bum.

 

'Everyone will fail  but you only become a failure when you blame others for  it. "

174 Predicting the future is hard so that's excuses the RNC and the donors for not supporting a guy when there are hardly any other races out there to worry about? This is a governorship of a pretty important state, the RNC should have been funneling money and people in there.

I don't excuse them for shit, they just don't want candidates like Cucinelli running. Every election is a wager on the future, that doesn't mean you bail out if your candidate looks like he might get beat. Mcauliffe is a terrible person and a terrible candidate. He was beatable.

175 134 "In 2004, Ralph Nader was on the ballot in Ohio, but at the polling
places there were big signs saying he was disqualified and votes cast
for him would not count."

-- That's illegal, I thought. And if it isn't, it probably should be.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 06, 2013 11:07 AM (PDTch)

 

That wasn't the dirty trick, if that's what you mean by illegal.  Those were official notices.  I'm saying the "dirty tricks" were to get him disqualified.  But that didn't become official until after ballots were already written, so the notice was posted to let people know.

176 Fer crying out loud is was not sodomy and birth control They voted their pocket books Which are stuffed with tax payer money

177 "ace, if you are saying that the Republicans need to go pro-pedophile to win, then eff it. Let it burn brightly."

Oh, come on. Ace already put paid to that nonsense.

It's not necessary to have anti-sodomy laws to jail pedophiles.

That can be accomplished with far more specifically worded and closely targeted anti-pedophile laws that don't have massive bycatch of consenting adults.

178 This internal GOP war is needed. Both sides will make mistakes and may have regrets. But I lean toward the tea party side because the past has not worked out well. Things need to be done differently. Maybe it gets resolved by 2016 maybe not. At least each side will have a good chance to make their case with candidates that IMO are better as a whole for each camp.

179 Roberts ask Sebelius if she has any regrets about launching a flawed program.

180 >>>I can't fault them that much, because Predicting the future is hard.

Democrats played a gambit which means *they* thought the race would be close. If Republicans were too dense to detect the prospect of a close race, that might be acceptable lapse, however, their utter inability to detect or respond to their opponents belief that it would be a close race is either gross incompetence, OR* deliberate malfeasance. Either they aren't smart enough to be running a political party or they are deliberately throwing races. Either way their is plenty of reason to hate and despise their leadership, and call for their ouster, for what happened.



*AND is an option.

181 In just one sentence I can tell you precisely why Conservative Republicans lose to Democrats. There is a communication disconnect between conservatism and The Dumb People.

182 She's plagiarizing Mike Judge and doesn't even know it. Right on. Miller also apparently doesn't know she's white. I cannot stand white people talking black. I guarantee you she didn't learn that growing up.

183 There are some things you can control and some things you can't. Each of them can be worth enough points to decide the race.

Offering up a policy that could be easily spun as an absolutist position not only against abortion but birth control in general was monumentally stupid and entirely within the candidate's control.

Every single thing you say and do is going to be examined by your opponents for potential to be spun as you advocating something completely unacceptable to a decisive portion of the electorate. You don't have to do their job for them.

184 166 ace at November 06, 2013 11:11 AM (/FnUH)

A lot of people made cogent analysis of the "regs" they are no such thing by the way they are pure fiat but enough on my hobby horse....

we knew this was coming and the best Boehner et al can do is "er uh I am going home Johnnie Walker Black for all let Ogabecare speak for itself..."

except you know and I know it won't speak for itself it will be wearing a gown made of spin and lies.

185 "But when they top of your ticket already has the baggage of being an Anti-Sodomy Crusader who might also kinda want to ban birth control pills" From Politifact: No basis to NextGen claim Cuccinelli wants to ban all contraception http://tinyurl.com/mrwwatc I don't know what we're going to do if we can't sort out fact from media spin and it's bought hook, line and sinker from our own side.

186 Roberts run through a list of entities given waivers, exemptions etc. Calls for Sebelius to resign.

187 A lot of what he said is, to me, not really all that objectionable. Well, not to me. But I'm a conservative, so I'm used to... edgy social-issue statements, like that yoga might invite Satan in. (Because when you "empty yourself," as eastern religions teach, Satan might take up residence in that emptiness.) Wait, what? He actually said that and not something that can be spun like that, right? Because if so, yeah.

188 Thanks for the clarification on Jindal and the RGA Ace.

Someone upthread mentioned that the recriminations started before the first ballot was cast, I agree. The recriminations started before the last election and haven't stopped. The fis-cons, the soc-cons, the inbetweeners and the outliers and everyone else seem to have developed a severe case of cannibalism. I have no ideas on how to fix the problems. I'm not that smart. But some here on this blogs comments section seem to believe they are that smart, so stop bitching and wipe the cum off your asses and figure out just what YOU can do to win next time. Don't just rollover, that only provides another hole. How many of you gave a dime to Cuccinelli? But you expected the same RINOs and establishment types that you bitch about to have spent their money when you didn't?

I know what I wrote is rambling a may not make any sense to anyone but that is how what I see in these comment threads look to me.

Begin the hate. I'm done for a while.

Thanks Ace! It's been illuminating to a sometimes commenter like me.

189 I don't know what we're going to do if we can't sort out fact from media spin and it's bought hook, line and sinker from our own side. Posted by: Tami --------------------------- Die.

190 BTW for folks that think money would have the difference in VA,  maybe, but a whole lot of money was spend in CO 2010 by both sides and Bennett was pretty wimpy as an opponent and still the "Buck signed the personhood petition, he'll make birth control pills illegal, lie" carried the race for the Dems.    OTOH I was worried that the NEA and Dem state legislature stealth income tax increase would pass this year because I'd heard little opposition ads and it was stealthily written on the ballot, and it lost about 2 to 1.   

One thing I'd like to see is GOP candidates fire these loser consultants that buy airtime during 'news' broadcasts and put their ads where they are not directly supporting the media reporters that are pushing the Dem for free. 

191 all you're doing is raging. Fine. if you want to rage about reasons Cuccinelli lost, let's make sure we blame ourselves for not realizing the shutdown's effect on government-worker-central Virginia, and also for Cuccinelli's hard embrace of stuff like anti-sodomy laws. This defeat took a lot of teamwork by our side. Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 11:00 AM (/FnUH) And let us not forget the NUMBER ONE reason. The people who control what gets put on television are LIBERAL DEMOCRATS who go out of their way to exert power through their control of information. Every Liberal Democrat in Media is worth perhaps many extra votes for the Democrats.

192 At this point, conservatism might as well just campaign thusly: "Hey, shithead, if you'd like to keep more of your paycheck, vote for us."

193
Many reasons I have heard....

1. GOP abandonment
2. Bad Vag Politics
3. Cruz/shutdown
4. Amnesty proponents/Latinos in force
5. Bolling sabotage
6. 3rd party funded by dems
7. Cantor's ex-aides working for McAwful
8. Dem vote cheating

Not sure which of those are worth 2%, but taken together its tough to win, so he did pretty good despite those things.  Little comfort.  I think it is just VA has changed to a company town.  GOP didn't win Lt Gov or AG either.

194 It's a special day when you get to be lectured by Menendez

195 They are crony capitalists, fascists.

Oligarchs is a better word.  Obama, people like McLame, Rove, etc.  They're working for a party indifferent oligarchy

196 I thought that guy from Kansas was going to be a stuttering fool, man was I wrong. He really laid the wood to her.

197 I don't know what we're going to do if we can't sort out fact from media spin and it's bought hook, line and sinker from our own side.

Posted by: Tami at November 06, 2013 11:14 AM (bCEmE)

-------------

I do.  We're going to keep losing.

198 Menendez (Degenerate-NJ) Complains that Republicans are just not cooperating, darn it! Ok, the 'darnit' was from me.

199 I read the Geraghty post-mortem piece. His point about a candidate being out of office (unless, of course, running for re-election) is a good one. The second point is the enormous amount of money from outside groups spent on McAuliffe's behalf. The Dem advantage of having their voters concentrated in a few media markets didn't hurt their cause, either. The Republicans will really have to concentrate on fundraising.

Then there is the illegal, coercive thing that punishes donors for donating to conservative pols and conservative organizations ...

200

Bill Nelson (D-FL) saying that people were suckered into 'cheap' insurance. Hoodwinked.

 

And by their own state's Department of Insurance Regulation, no less.

 

201 I thought that guy from Kansas was going to be a stuttering fool, man was I wrong. He really laid the wood to her. Posted by: lowandslow ------------ Yeah, an outright call for resignation is pretty much to the point.

202 The thing that the Republican's need is money, vast amounts of money, to saturate the airwaves with paid programming to counter both the Democrat's paid-for lies, and for the MFM's enormous in-kind contributions. Most of our losing candidates are not losing candidates on paper. They lose once the opposition creates the boogie-man in the mind of the LIV. The problem, as I noted on the previous thread, is that their potential voters, and small donors, and their big money PAC men have different goals.

203

For all of you blasting the "sodomy" "anti birth control pill", etc.  It's as if you read straight from little Terry McAuliffe's ads.  Maybe voting for the fake libertarian candidate is for you.

 

Let's put it on the table.  We ran the most middle of the road candidate last time.  On every issue.  He didn't espouse any crazy social views and even had his own fucking version of zerocare passed.  WITH HIS NAME ON IT.  This guy was literally the most moderate R you could have asked for. 

 

And he got his ass kicked.  In VA he lost by about the same margin as KC. 

 

There are two choices:  1) defund the GOP - send our money to orgs that GOP has no power over our funds; or 2) start a third party.

 

The laughable thing is all this huss and fuss is made up of fools who don't know the real base of the GOP.  Yeah, you cave or flounder on abortion, etc., and never win an election anywhere, ever again.

 

For all his purported mistakes/negatives:

1) the shutdown - it would have hurt the most right there in NoVa

2) a fake libertarian candidate that diverted votes

3) being outspent 25 to 1!!!!!!!!!!

4) the so-called crazy social positions, which apparently are all sourced from Dem. campaign commercials.

 

He lost by roughly the same margin as milk toast, hedge fund, super polished Romney.  So put that in your pipe and fucking smoke it.  And dems didn't have the super high turnout for Obama this time around.  Just imagine if we could have pressed a lot harder and exposed sarvis what that would have meant. 

Fucking shameful, from every respect.  Even pure cold hard tactics. 

204 "I am not a dissident and you should be one too" Good advice from American Thinker via the Russian guy whose name I'm not even going to try to spell who wrote Gulag Archipelago: http://tinyurl.com/kcrwuwb

205 Must walk doggehs. Enjoy your day.

206 Die. Posted by: Mike Hammer at November 06, 2013 11:15 AM (aDwsi) That's gonna happen no matter what.

207 VA is a shitful state. Lived in Richmond many years ago. Absolutely hated it. The only place I've lived that I found nothing to like or remember fondly.

208 I saw an exit poll that seems to indicate that the shutdown had nothing to do with yesterday's election....47 percent of the voters blamed the GOP, 46 percent blamed Obama. Zerocare, however, was at 42 percent for and 58 against. For what it's worth. No, I have no link.

I'm definitely avoiding twitter for the next few days.The agony of defeat is one thing, having your so-called "teammates" trashing you in leftist terms is something else.

209 Also, Cucinelli losing is not just a case of bad demographics, that the SoCon spin.

The last Governor's election, the Republican won by nearly 20 points and swept all 3 of the statewide race by solid, double digits. The VA legislature is also solidly in Republican hands.

VA demographics have changed, but not enough in 4 years to where it's unwinnable for Republicans.  It's always been a swing state.

What has changed is a really popular GOP Governor and legislature started talking about forcing sonograms and then the crazies nominated a Rick Santorum-type Cultural Warrior as Governor and a LT. Governor that sounded like a Pentecostal Preacher that wanted to talk about Sodom and Gomorrah all the time.

That stuff doesn't even sell in the Bible Belt anymore.

Would it really have been so terrible to have nominated a Republican that had a "normal" pro-life stance and wasn't so focused on hot button social issues?

210 we get it blaster. in your brain sodomy = pedophilia.

211 Regarding the yoga stuff. Here is what EW Jackson, a preacher, wrote in his book in 2008: When one hears the word meditation, it conjures an image of Maharishi Yoga talking about finding a mantra and striving for nirvana. Â… The purpose of such meditation is to empty oneself. Â… [Satan] is happy to invade the empty vacuum of your soul and possess it. That is why people serve Satan without ever knowing it or deciding to, but no one can be a child of God without making a decision to surrender to him. Beware of systems of spirituality which tell you to empty yourself. You will end up filled with something you probably do not want. He doesn't say that if you do yoga you are going to Hell. He said what he said.

212 There is a communication disconnect between conservatism and The Dumb People. Posted by: soothsayer explains it all at November 06, 2013 11:13 AM (kjIjA) If they can't grasp math ( and all indications are that they can't) then they certainly can't grasp any more complex topic. We have met Idiocracy and it is Democrat voters.

213 Bolling has issued a statement on the elections, which reads in part: “As a Republican, I am deeply disappointed that our party has lost control of our state's top two elected offices. There are clear lessons in these losses for the Republican Party. Going forward, we need to have an open and honest conversation about the future of our party and determine what we must do to reconnect with a more diverse voter base whose support is critical to political success in Virginia."

214 Most losing candidates could lose on paper. Each candidate that I've seen lose, even in the rare upsets, had a path to losing. We need to accept the weaknesses in candidates and decide "Is this weakness acceptable, or should we try someone different?"

We too often decide to roll the dice.

215 When freaking Polifact says a Dem attack is bullshit, there's a pretty good chance it is in fact bullshit.

216 Empire of Jeff:

Google is your friend.

From April of this very year:

irginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli (R) is urging a federal appeals court to overturn a decision by a panel of state judges declaring an anti-sodomy law unconstitutional.

The Washington Blade reports that Cuccinelli has filed a formal "petition with the 4th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals in Richmond asking the full 15-judge court to reconsider a decision by a three-judge panel last month that overturned the state's sodomy law. The three-judge panel ruled 2-1 on March 12 that a section of Virginia's 'Crimes Against Nature' statute that outlaws sodomy between consenting adults, gay or straight, is unconstitutional based on a U.S. Supreme Court decision in 2003 known as Lawrence v. Texas."

217 that is a fabulous table Purp. If you look at high tax NY, they are getting killed!

218 Would it really have been so terrible to have nominated a Republican that had a "normal" pro-life stance and wasn't so focused on hot button social issues? It makes no difference. Once the opposition and the MFM make them a Vag h8ter, it's over.

219 Bolling is a traitor. A sitting Lt Governor who would not endorse the nominee for his own party, due to sour grapes

220 Five years in, Obama and Bush poll numbers nearly identical

In fact, Bush comes out one point ahead, 40 percent to 39 percent, respectively.

The Gallup daily tracking poll for November 5th 2013 puts ObamaÂ’s approval at 39 percent, with 53 percent disapproving of his job performance.

By comparison, polling for the first week of November in 2005 had BushÂ’s approval at 40 percent, with 55 percent disapproving of his job performance.

221 Today if you can't state/sell your policy position in less than 20 words, You Lose.

222

Yes if the government didn't shut down,  those democrat government workers would have voted for  Cuccinelli  and those Republican government workers would have not voted for  McClinton. 

 

 

223 124 ---The GOP only lost a net 1 seat in the assembly last night, and still hold a super majority. McAwful is a lame duck form day one, and does not help Hillary Posted by: Myron at November 06, 2013 11:05 AM (4WesI) ---------------------- He's a lame duck as far as doing anyway to Virginia itself. (Good luck trying to gun grab, for example.) But he will help Clinton. That's the whole reason they invested so much in him. McA is a bagman. His job is to set up Hillary's victory in VA itself but also to shakedown as much money for her as he can.

224 @208 - Nope. As the AG he prosecuted people under that law - not to hang teh gays or what not - but online predators going after 17 year olds. Having the law overturned eliminated the convictions.

225

Could Cuccinelli have won without the support of the RNC and RGA if he would have stayed away from issues that could be interpreted as anti-sodomy and anti-contraception?

 

Probably.

 

Could Cuccinelli have won if the RNC and RGA poured millions into the race to give him some bit of parity with McAuliffe, even though he had taken some positions on social issues that alienated some moderates?

 

Sure.

 

He just couldn't win with both of those factors going against him.

226 Also, Cucinelli losing is not just a case of bad demographics, that the SoCon spin.

Who's making that claim?  Citations please.

227 >>>hen one hears the word meditation, it conjures an image of Maharishi Yoga talking about finding a mantra and striving for nirvana. Â… The purpose of such meditation is to empty oneself. Â… [Satan] is happy to invade the empty vacuum of your soul and possess it. That is why people serve Satan without ever knowing it or deciding to, but no one can be a child of God without making a decision to surrender to him. Beware of systems of spirituality which tell you to empty yourself. You will end up filled with something you probably do not want.


He doesn't say that if you do yoga you are going to Hell. He said what he said.

...

Right. He said what he said.

What he said was, basically, "Unless you are an evangelical Christian, you shouldn't vote for me, because I am primarily about religion and salvation and not governance."

228 Would the people in Virginia who were affected by the shutdown voted for Cooch otherwise? I have a hard time believing that.

229 Enzi (R-WY) Asks "What is the administration doing to help those who have lost their insurance?"

230 "water rights were war material in Texas..." I have 6 wells on 400 acres, but they are old. There is talk of restricting wells, that's why I'm thinking I'd better drill another now. I'm familiar with water wars, I live in Colorado!

231

The Cantors and Bollings, etc.....had no interest and nothing to gain by supporting a limited government candidate like KC. Both of these clowns, while cloaked in the fabric of the GOP are nothing more than grow-the-government-but-not-as-fast-as-the-Democrat type of Republicans.

 

I mean look at what McDonnell did to us in the last legislative session.....he was in cahoots with the Bolling-types to usher in a huge tax increase and jam a $1.5B transporation bill down our throats.

 

That's what you get with Cantors and Bollings. Billion dollar transportation bills, farm bills, TARP, the Patriot Act, Medicare Part D, etc....No one schooled in the limitations of the Constitution would pass shit like this and that's where KC comes from.

 

I live in Henrico and to let you know how bad it is in the former utopian surburban paradise know as Henrico County, McAwful beat KC by more than 17K votes.... something like 56K to 39K with the donk plant getting 7K. Over 56% of the vote went to McAwful in the generally well-to-do suburbs. So those NoVa immigrants are now taking over down my way.

 

Just fucking awful.......

232
Dear Terry,

Congratulations on your win, and we both know you didn't go to victory by your singular effort.  A great deal of money was expended on your behalf, and we expect to receive a lot of support for our money. 


Therefore, it's incumbent of you to speak about my presidential run in very favorable terms.  Also, if you have any naysayers in Virginia government, it's best for them to seek employment elsewhere.  If you know someone is conservative, simply eliminate them by the use of our standard nuts and sluts, faggot, wife beater, or thief disclosures.


I look forward to spending time with you planning for the next victory.  With my election to the presidency, we can complete the progressive agenda and permanently enslave the idiotic buffoons who believed our bullshit story.


Best Regards,


Hillary Clinton

233 Kristol says the biggest thing to take from last night, is that the GOP does not have to move to the center. His sources say that the narrow margin in Va, cements the fact that the GOP House does not need to move on Amnesty

234
I read the Geraghty post-mortem piece. His point about a candidate being out of office (unless, of course, running for re-election) is a good one.
Posted by: mrp




Really?  Because the last three guys in the White House all had day jobs while running for the office.

Doesn't seem to be an impediment.

235 "Would the people in Virginia who were affected by the shutdown voted for Cooch otherwise?"

-- Not the right question. "Did the shut down move them from apathetic to 'Vote for the Blue Team'" is the right question. A close election, the extra turn out from angry D- voters might have helped with the lead [but alone, I doubt made the difference.]

236 If the donor class doesn't want to support grass root tea party candidates, whatever te you use, so be it. Just don't expect us to support their more establishment candidates, whatever term you call it.

Posted by: SH at November 06, 2013 11:08 AM (9Zci/)

Exactly, the schism is real, it is deep and widening every hour of every day.  Unfortunately, it plays into the Dims hands, but, the RNC chose the schism by their actions by absolutely refusing to hear Conservatives on any issue and telling us to sit down and shut up, but, would we mind going along with what our betters decide for us when it comes time to donate or vote or work for elections.  Not just NO, but Hell No!

237 222 17 year olds are over Virginia's age of consent. KC didn't try to change that fact, he used creepy-but-not-criminal losers as a backdoor to sneak his anti-sodomy nonsense.

238 Sebelius - Says , basically, "embrace the suck".

239 ace - why do you insist on promoting all Leftist cant about Republican candidates? I get it. EW Jackson wasn't your cup of tea. But no need to make him into something he isn't. Ask yourself this - if Cuccinelli's positions were such anathema - why did McAuliffe lie about them? The answer is the same as the "keep your doctor" bullshit from the President. Because the truth is not as convincing.

240 Didn't we already go over that case? How would over turning that law keep mr child rapey in prison where he belongs? Why should sodomy be legal between an adult and a non consenting child?

241 I mentioned last night that we voted in Fairfax County last night. When we signed in, we got out our ID's for the election judges to check. They refused to look at them. They asked my address, and I started to give my old, Florida address. The election judge PROMPTED me with my new, Fairfax address. And still refused to look at my ID, because, and I quote him: "We have fail-safes." I asked what a fail-safe was, and got dirty looks from the rest of the judges. Went to vote, and it was the new-fangled electronic voting machines. Dems at the top of the selections. And when I asked the election judges if the machines were secure, and my votes couldn't be tampered with, they didn't know what to say. I'm sure my name is on a re-education list now.

242 17 year olds are over Virginia's age of consent. KC didn't try to change that fact, he used creepy-but-not-criminal losers as a backdoor to sneak his anti-sodomy nonsense. Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at November 06, 2013 11:24 AM (GmTxn) So we count you as pro-creep, then?

243 What he said was, basically, "Unless you are an evangelical Christian, you shouldn't vote for me, because I am primarily about religion and salvation and not governance."

Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 11:22 AM (/FnUH)

 

Funny I thought it was only the Left that took the position ---  ' He didn't actually say those words,  but  that is what he meant. ' 

244 Lt gov candidate, uh no thanks. How about classic conservatism where we just leave people the hell alone. I know he wasn't advocating laws about yoga, but really?

245 "We ran the most middle of the road candidate last time. On every issue. He didn't espouse any crazy social views"

Except a bunch of downticket candidates in the party DID start espousing completely crazy social views. Loudly so.

And then the middle of the road guy at the top of the ticket, who should have instantly and forcibly distanced himself from those nutbars, tried to soft-pedal the matter.

Instead he left the door open for the entire party to be tarred with the same brush.

246 whatever, let's keep fighting for anti-sodomy laws.

On one hand, some of you insist on this nonsense, and then when candidates lose because of this nonsense, you want to say "Oh that doesn't matter at all, people who vote on that are STUPID and CRAZY."

Well, 1, if someone's trying to ban something you like (such as guns) you sure don't take this position, and so you shouldn't dictate to people what they should care about, and 2, if this stuff "doesn't matter," why are you so determined yourselves to keep pushing it?

obviously it matters to the people pushing it.  So are you saying people who support this nonsense are permitted to think it matters, but people opposed to are "STUPID" and "CRAZY" to agree that it matters?

247 I agree ace. I'm just sure lovin how ocare is failing

248 Since 2010 there has been one sure fire electoral winner for the GOP. Run against obamacare. There is no reason to run on any other issue.

249 All of the above just shows that the GOP is a dead party. There's no faith in the leadership, there's no common ground between factions, the base has (for a large part) stopped sending money to the national committees, elected GOP officials are sniping at GOP candidates.

I don't know about you, but I'm heading for the lifeboat of a third party. We may be lost at sea for a while, but this Republican boat is sinking, and the captain is busy shooting at the workers trying to bail.

250 Would the people in Virginia who were affected by the shutdown voted for Cooch otherwise? I have a hard time believing that.
Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet

Well, for one thing, they had less money to send to the McAuliffe campaign.

251 I dont think VA is that bad.. they elected a Republican super majority to the house. If it werent for the 3rd party candidate.. it would have been almost a sweep. Clinton's flunky is a lame duck... before he even begins. However.. the amount of federal employees in VA is something to worry about in Pres elections. With VA and FL voting Ovomit twice.. we are in trouble.

252 228 Meremortal, Low Info Mofo at November 06, 2013 11:22 AM (1Y+hH)

Texas and Ohio's GOP resource raids are part of the beginning of the end of my support for the GOP at large.

The state of Ohio tried to steal the shale boom based on a bs gold case in Clark County...

both sides are graft machines I wager.

253 Predicting the future is hard.

I predict that in 20 years Ace will be either living, or dead.

See that wasn't all that hard.

254 Excellent analysis, Ace.

It should also be noted (and probably has been) that the RNC just doesn't have all that much money on hand, and they're going to need a lot of what they do have for next year.

At the end of Sept, the RNC only had something like $11 million cash on hand.

More money might have changed the outcome (Cuccinelli wasn't an ideal candidate), but one has to ask why he couldn't / didn't raise more money on his own.

255 BTW, my stance on all this has nuttin' to do with the VA race.  My stance is about Christie and all those begging calls and emails I get from the RNC.  I am not playing your moderate/libertarian/establishmentarian game any more.  I am done.

256 Too bad about Henrico County

257 Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 11:26 AM (/FnUH)

Did Ace just say he likes sodomy??? Nothing wrong with that, I guess...

258 What he said was, basically, "Unless you are an evangelical Christian, you shouldn't vote for me, because I am primarily about religion and salvation and not governance."  Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 11:22 AM

Makes it pretty simple, doesn't it?

If a candidate says to me "I don't believe what you believe, and my agenda is distasteful to you, so you shouldn't vote for me," I'm not gonna vote for him. Or her.

Republicans don't seem to have learned that real, non-political-junkie people think that way.

259 The shut down didn't move anyone one way or another. Government workers are like any one else and vote their self interest. They were never gonna vote red anyway. I don't even think it helped with GOTV. Non issue

260 "Kristol says the biggest thing to take from last night, is that the GOP does not have to move to the center." Boy is he in trouble.

261 All of the above just shows that the GOP is a dead party. There's no faith in the leadership, there's no common ground between factions, the base has (for a large part) stopped sending money to the national committees, elected GOP officials are sniping at GOP candidates.

I don't know about you, but I'm heading for the lifeboat of a third party. We may be lost at sea for a while, but this Republican boat is sinking, and the captain is busy shooting at the workers trying to bail.

Posted by: RoadRunner at November 06, 2013 11:26 AM (XrGnJ)

 

--------------------

 

Yep.  And often drowning victims will fight and  drown those coming to rescue  them. 

262 I read the Geraghty post-mortem piece. His point about a candidate being out of office (unless, of course, running for re-election) is a good one. The second point is the enormous amount of money from outside groups spent on McAuliffe's behalf. The Dem advantage of having their voters concentrated in a few media markets didn't hurt their cause, either. The Republicans will really have to concentrate on fundraising. Then there is the illegal, coercive thing that punishes donors for donating to conservative pols and conservative organizations ... Posted by: mrp at November 06, 2013 11:16 AM (HjPtV) Which one? The first one where he makes all kinds of statements about numbers while very very very carefully avoiding mentioning the elephant that was not in the room or the second one where he finally mentions it in a very breezy manner. Sorry, but his game playing with the numbers in his first piece makes his comments about that entire situation less than credible to me. Oh, ace, thank you for clarifying Jindal's role in this because I've been all wtfingf does Jindal have to do with this. After careful consideration of this mini snickers, I have decided to settle on a perfect storm of stupid. People whose opinion I trust said that Cuccinelli was a bad candidate, the attempts to spin Bolling's actions as anything other than petulance are wholly unpersuasive, the RNC did make a decision to dramatically cut back on funding that is highly questionable, even given the polls a few weeks ago and, sadly, the vajayjay stuff works for a certain portion of the populace.

263 Blame? We ALL know who/what to blame. http://tinyurl.com/m9m96ez

264 >>>Ask yourself this - if Cuccinelli's positions were such anathema - why did McAuliffe lie about them?

yeah that's the thing, he actually didn't.  Cuccinelli's bill did, by sneaky implication, ban many birth control pills (or would have, had it become law; actually the SC would have struck that down, but that was the intent).

So you can just keep telling yourself this.  Whatev's.  The guy could have clarified that "Nothing in this bill shall be deemed to apply to routine contraception..." but he didn't, because he didn't want to signal any approval of birth control.

you keep doing the same thing-- you push shit that is actually pretty out-of-bounds as far as morality policing, and then you just want to swear up and down on a stack of Bibles "Oh we didn't mean that."

The time to say "We didn't mean that" was in the BILL ITSELF, not self-serving statements made during a campaign.

If anyone on the left attempted this bullshit, you'd call him on it.  You'd say "The bill represents your actual position, not these Johnny-Come-Lately disclaimers, made during a tough election."

265 I predict that in 20 years Ace will be either living, or dead. See that wasn't all that hard. If, in 2033, I have to drop a zombie Ace on your doorstep, I will laugh the whole time.

266 Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 11:22 AM (/FnUH)

Hey Ace,

Nevergiveup (Jooo) and I (another Jooo)  are going out for a few beers with Satan, just after our meditation session.

Want to join us?

I'm pretty sure your stance on religion means you have the devil residing in your soul.

267 Obozo at 39% today in Gallup. GOP needs to just let him flail in the wind, and shut down any legislation for the rest of 2013

268 Instead he left the door open for the entire party to be tarred with the same brush. Posted by: torquewrench at November 06, 2013 11:25 AM (gqT4g) There is an argument to be made that Mourdock and Akin cost the election. They should have known better than to make those statements.

269 As someone who worked in politics in Virginia, Cuccinelli didn't lose because Bolling or Jindal or the "Establishment GOP" didn't support him, he lost because he wasn't that good of a candidate. Plus, the Lt. Gov candidate was a nightmare. During this year, I received ZERO fundraising letters from Cucinnelli, ZERO. Usually I receive about 10-15 from each GOP candidate. He sucked at fundraising, thus, McAuliffe got the advantage in money because he was the Clinton's bagman. Cucinnelli did not do much if any advertising in September and early October. Much like 2012, McAuliffe had August and September pretty much to himself on the airwaves. By contrast, Obenshain was all over television here in the western half of the state. No presence by Cucinelli in western Virginia. If you want to do well as a Republican running in Virginia, you need to mine every GOP leaning vote in western Virginia. The GOP ticket did not. There is a building owned by a GOP donor who always lets the GOP use some office space in it every election. It is located on the busiest intersection in the most heavily GOP neighborhood in the area, and it was empty this year. No signs out front as in years past, and NO yard signs anywhere to be seen. Cuccinelli needs to remember that the people need a reason to vote for a candidate, not for a reason not to vote for the other guy. Romney thought people would vote for him because he wasn't Obama, didn't happen.

270 The GOP needs a "candidate school" where they can be told which toxic issues to avoid like the plague, because there's quite a few who are too fucking stupid to figure it out on their own

271 Right. He said what he said. What he said was, basically, "Unless you are an evangelical Christian, you shouldn't vote for me, because I am primarily about religion and salvation and not governance." Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 11:22 AM (/FnUH) Oh, bullshit, and you know it. The book he wrote in 2008 as a preacher was NOT a campaign treatise. And oddly enough, for someone who you say was saying "I only want the votes of evangelical Christians" he got 44% of the vote. Did you know Jackson graduated from Harvard Law?

272 "yeah that's the thing, he actually didn't. Cuccinelli's bill did, by sneaky implication, ban many birth control pills (or would have, had it become law; actually the SC would have struck that down, but that was the intent)." ===== One more time....with feeling! From Politifact: No basis to NextGen claim Cuccinelli wants to ban all contraception http://tinyurl.com/mrwwatc And now I'm out....

273 >>>The GOP needs a "candidate school" where they can be told which toxic issues to avoid like the plague, because there's quite a few who are too fucking stupid to figure it out on their own

probably.  But who would come?  And anyone who came would be attacked by the press and Democrats (BIRM) for having needed to go to school to learn how to "Talk Normal."

274 Let me get this straight. The citizens of VA vote in a primary for their candidate. He faces a Dem in the general election. The Rep is not the best choice the voters made. He loses to a Dem and we blame others except for the voters who put him in that spot?

Ok, I've had enough learning for the morning.

275

Cuccinelli's bill did, by sneaky implication, ban many birth control pills

 

Sneaky implication?  weasel words.   When you get angry and frustrated you start to sound like a lefty. 

276 Ashley Judd seems to have nailed it

277

I'm excited as hell for the 2014 midterms.  404Care is obviously going to be the animating issue in those elections as well and it will not be pretty for the evil Democrats.  If  Republicans  are  willing  to  make   any sort of an argument for voting FOR them (hello Ted Cruz!)   the elections will be big for the GOP.

 

The only  danger  to  our  prospests  of  winning  big  is RINO fear of upsetting the status quo.   People like  Nancy Graham in South Carolina must be defeated if that is possible, in order to put the fear of  God into  those Republicans who now represent our biggest risk.

278 I received ZERO fundraising letters from Cucinnelli, ZERO.

90% of "success" is in just showing up.

279 All sorts of SoCon apologist posters over the web are trying to make the case that because VA is not as red as it used to be, it was over before it began.

What they're afraid of is conservatives tossing the retards out on their ear, so they want to say it's because VA is now a deep blue state, nothing to do with the type of candidate Cuccineli and his running mate were.

If a pro-life Republican can win New Jersey by over 20 points, a pro-life Republican can win VA.  But if you run Todd Akin in VA, you're going to lose.

And the sodomy stuff with Cuccinelli is indefensible.  If you can't convict someone for the crime they actually committed, you don't prosecute.

That's sort of like saying "we know this gay guy is embezzling money but we can't prove it, so instead we're going to convict on some 150 year old law for sodomy with his partner"

280 Hey, ace, since you are still here, you need to do a thread on the up coming 4.8% sales tax on financial transactions. Mom sells her house, she is going to get fucked. Every time you trade a stock, bam, 4.8% tax goes to Obama Care. You think this is going to affect the stock market? Da huh.

281
Posted by: Ashley Judd's



All of which requires money.  Which was withheld by the Party.

Root cause.

282 Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, aka MrCaniac at November 06, 2013 11:31 AM (BXLPR)

-------------




Sounds a lot like Romney's 2012 (non)campaign here in Wisconsin.

283 >I think it's ultimately true that if the RGA, RNC, and the Republican donor class had invested more heavily in Cuccinelli's bid, he may have won.<

How?

I've heard that argument, but believe it's about much more than money.

This wasn't just about money. It was about strategy and knowledge.

For example, imagine of people knew the facts on Sarvis, that he was a Democrat stooge meant to fool people and provide a margin a victory for McAuliffe?

People don't like being made into asses. These people were largely tricked into voting for the Democrat.

I don't buy the "protest" vote angel either. When you protest with your vote in manner that does not provide your candidate victory- you've just handed the race to someone against whom you alleged to be protesting against.

By the way; imagine if we start to work together towards victory. You know, instead of recriminations and cutting each other down.

284 I see the Dem came out ahead in the Attorney General position in Virginia.... Big surprise...

285 This sodomy shit came up when he was defending a case on appeal where the guy was prosecuted for attempting to rape a minor by forcing her to perform sodomy on him. He also had a couple of prior kiddy sex crimes. The girl didn't even report him but the guy got hinky and thought he was real smart and filed a police report against her and claimed that she sexually assaulted him. KC argued that Larry v. Texas did not apply to minors but only consenting adults. I'm going by memory here but that was the big brouha over sodomy. Look your asses are safe. You can have all the buttsecks you want with a consenting adult. Knock yourself out.

286 Misanthropic: The voters are always to blame, but they are too large a group to change in any meaningful way in any meaningful amount of time. So, you have to focus on things you can change.

287 "How about classic conservatism where we just leave people the hell alone."

You have to figure that a campaign built around that simple model would also be a lot less vulnerable to faux libertarians siphoning off the "leave me alone" vote.

By the way, that faux libertarian strategy has now worked twice for the left. The VA gubernatorial race this year, and the MT senatorial race in 2012. Expect to see the left pull out that playbook again in 2014 and 2016.

288 the vajayjay stuff works for a certain portion of the populace.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at November 06, 2013 11:30 AM (VtjlW)

And time after time we get bitten in the ass by it.

We truly are retarded if we can't learn this simple lesson.

We do not deserve to win if we ignore the glaringly obvious facts staring us in the face.

289 So all the data and actual experts agree with me, Cucc did not run a so-con warrior campaign. Did not happen. I don't understand why people keep claiming something happened that manifestly did not. Facts matter. Reality matters.

290 Would certainly agree that running on sodomy laws is dumb, though not all that familiar with this law and what cuch said on it. He probably didn't help himself. The GOP didn't help with their limited financial support. The shutdown may have been a factor, to which I say oh well. I'm not in favor of setting policy on how it may affect the vote of one governors race.

291

>>Would it really have been so terrible to have nominated a Republican that had a "normal" pro-life stance and wasn't so focused on hot button social issues?<<

 

What exactly is a "normal" pro-life stance and how would it not be pilloried by the DNC, whose stance is now free abortions at any time up to delivery no matter what the reason.

 

 

292 "Which one? The first one where he makes all kinds of statements about numbers while very very very carefully avoiding mentioning the elephant that was not in the room or the second one where he finally mentions it in a very breezy manner."

The "post-mortem" piece Malor linked in his morning post.

293 you keep doing the same thing-- you push shit that is actually pretty out-of-bounds as far as morality policing, and then you just want to swear up and down on a stack of Bibles "Oh we didn't mean that." Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 11:30 AM (/FnUH) Ace doing strawman argument now.

294


♫ YOU GOTTA FIGHT ♫


And isn't that issue that many of us has with GOPe - they won't, especially for grass root candidates and causes. 

Cooch was a leader in the fight against Obamacare - this should have full court press from Day 1 - there's no way this Governorship should have flipped Red to Blue

295 I'm not so sure it's fair to trash the national party for failing to anticipate Cuccinelli's late surge. If we're going to blame the establishment, I'd fire at the state party. The post mortems Gabe linked (yeah, Gabe) from The Federalist and NRO this morning are worth a read. What may have hurt Cuccinelli most is the fact that he really IS a small government guy who doesn't like playing the crony-socialism game. The big money saw a huge difference between him and Bagman McSleaze. No question who's gonna make the sweet deals.

296 Cornyn (R-TX) Says, in this administration you can lie, you can misrepresent, but you can not be fired.

297 If I'm the Democrats, I'd be feeling pretty encouraged this morning that the GOP dropped the ball yet again in not believing Obamacare would turn out to be the giant flustercuck it is, and not supporting Cuccinelli more. The smart Dems won't count on the Cruz's and Rand's allowing that to continue unabated much longer. Those are the ones I'm gonna keep an eye on. The dumb ones will continue to jerk off to library porn while their world collapses. Those are the ones I'm gonna keep laughing at on comment threads. The only question for me is which ones are in the Oval Office this morning?

298 The GOP needs a "Candidate School" ---- Online education is the future. It could be taught right here on AoSHQ. Lesson one---any topic that inspires 1000- comment circular firing squads between morons is a topic to avoid. Lesson two---when you've stepped in it, big time, pivot to boobeh pics.

299

>>The GOP needs a "candidate school" where they can be told which toxic issues to avoid like the plague, because there's quite a few who are too fucking stupid to figure it out on their own<<

 

They could avoid such matriculation if they hired competent campaign managers and then listened to them.

300 Cornyn has realized that ACA opposition may save him. Interesting. A ray of hope

301 Hey Ace, Nevergiveup (Jooo and I (another Jooo) are going out for a few beers with Satan, just after our meditation session. Be careful there, Billy Bob got banned for that kind of talk.

302 Cucc wasn't pushing anti-sodomy laws. That's not true. He used some obscure laws that were still on the books to put some child rapists in jail. He wasn't trying to outlaw gay sex or punish gays. He was AG. He used the laws on the books to hammer some fucking molesters. Facts matter.

303 Sebelius acknowledges that there are no background checks for 'navigators'.

304 So basically, Cuch sucked as a candidate and the GOP sucks as a party. SNAFU.

305 probably. But who would come?

Bring it to them if you have to -- one on one "tutoring"...

...by a guy named Guido flanked by a couple of gorillas with freaking pipes.

306 A "normal" pro-life stance is one most people accept without immediately disqualifying you. So, pro-life, with the big three exceptions is "normal." Tinkering with birth control, in any manner, is not normal.

307 Facts matter.

I wish that were true.

308 Tami, others:

That politifact claim says that it's not true that the bill would ban ALL forms of contraception, which is the thing they say is false.

It would merely ban *some.*

Reading is your friend.

We asked Brian Mahar, a spokesman for the super pac, for proof of the claim. He cited a Sept. 4 editorial in The Washington Post criticizing CuccinelliÂ’s support of a 2007 bill in the General Assembly that would have extended to human embryos a "right to the enjoyment of life" from the moment of fertilization.

The editorial said the failed legislation would have "provided an opening to prohibit common methods of birth control, including the pill and intrauterine devices."

The Post editorial, however, made no claim that every form of birth control -- including condoms and spermicides -- would have been banned under the bill.

Debate over the impact of legislation that confers personhood from the moment of conception centers on how various forms of birth control work. No one disputes that devices that merely prevent fertilization wouldnÂ’t be affected by personhood laws.

The issue is that some forms -- including the intrauterine device, emergency contraception and birth control pills -- may also work by preventing implantation of a fertilized egg in the uterus. Some people say those methods go beyond mere contraception and are tantamount to causing an abortion.

In 2012, as Virginia was debating another personhood measure, the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists released a statement saying laws that bestow rights from the moment of fertilization would restrict contraception choices.

The group wrote, "some of the most effective and reliable forms of contraception, such as oral contraceptives, intrauterine devices,, and other forms of FDA-approved hormonal contraceptives could be banned in states that adopt ‘personhood’ measures."

But the organizationÂ’s statement, which was cited in editorial NextGen references, never said *all* forms of contraception would be banned. It said personhood laws would leave "condoms, natural family planning and spermicides the only legally allowed forms of birth control."

On the claim that Cuccinelli never proposed banning any birth control, they labeled it "half true:" He didn't directly propose such a thing, but he did write a bill that would suggest that any birth control that causes a failure of a fertilized egg to implant (many birth control pills, the IUD) would violate the bill.

http://tinyurl.com/lwdkbg7

309 No basis to NextGen claim Cuccinelli wants to ban all contraception

http://tinyurl.com/mrwwatc

Posted by: Tami at November 06, 2013 11:32 AM (bCEmE)

Talk about sneaky!

Ace never said "all contraception." He said that Cuccinelli's bill would have banned post-conception contraception.

You don't get to play with the facts...that's the Dems' job.

310 We are screwed until we have a real opposition party. Not the R, they are daily making it clear they are content to be the junior partners in the Big Statist Fusion Party. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it cant work .... until it can and does. See: Whig

311 Sneaky implication? weasel words. When you get angry and frustrated you start to sound like a lefty. Posted by: polynikes at November 06, 2013 11:33 AM (m2CN7) This is also my impression.

312 Moderate Republicans bolt every time if they don't get their way--see Lugar, Murkowski, Castle, and now Bolling.  They are also the ones constantly carping about how the GOP needs to change core principles to be more flexible, to be more inclusive, etc.

McDonnell backstabbed conservatives over his bloated highway program.  Kasich did so on Medicaid expansion.  Christie backstabbed Romney.  Huntsman left knives in multiple GOP rivals.  Bush I did it to Reagan.  Etc. and so on.  Moderates have no firm principles so they run on the lesser evil ticket and usually win by demonizing their opponent.  They also act in the dark--witness the attempt to rein in Reagan with Ford co-presidency, the machinations at the 1952 convention, the current attempts by the RNC to stack the deck in an already royalist selection process, and the current attacks on the Conservative Campaign Fund by the Senate crowd by paid staffers working undercover. 

After the public fragging of Sarah Palin by the very people who picked her versus the Dem's closing their circle to protect the much more idiotic Joe Biden, it is clear that any attempt to reform the GOP will be opposed strongly by those currently in power.  For me, it appears that the GOP will meet a similar demise as the Progressive Conservative Party in Canada.  When corruptocrat leftist Canadian prime ministers such as Chretien or Martin are more conservative economically and socially than GOP in place today in Washington, well then I might as well vote Democrat to get what I can before the burning begins. 

313 I'm pretty sure your stance on religion means you have the devil residing in your soul. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 06, 2013 11:30 AM (oJ5Fd) *taps chin* So what you're saying is I can do all the yoga and meditate all I want. Speaking of, I really do need to go back to doing yoga. I used to be able to do a wall split. Now, well, not so much.

314 The Obama shake down begins. http://tinyurl.com/kjawvvl

315 >Cuccinelli needs to remember that the people need a reason to vote for a candidate, not for a reason not to vote for the other guy. Romney thought people would vote for him because he wasn't Obama, didn't happen.<

You should print this on flyers and staple it to people's foreheads.

Many folks in the GOP, most of them in Congress, haven't learned that because people don't like the other guy, it doesn't mean they like you.

Hate and disaffection is not a strategy for victory. It's a proven siren call.

316 The GOP needs a "candidate school" where they can be told which toxic issues to avoid like the plague, because there's quite a few who are too fucking stupid to figure it out on their own

Posted by: Purp at November 06, 2013 11:31 AM (W9e8l)

1000 times this. Repubs preach to the choir, dems preach to the fucking stupid.

317

"The GOP needs a "candidate school"..."

 

I've advocated this for years. 

 

Hillsdale College would be the perfect place for an 8 week executive course.  Media training, staffing, strategy, tactics, a full spectrum of courses for candidates, staff and campaign managers.

 

All we need is for some talented writer to put the proposal together so we can send it along to Kochs for funding.

318 I find the talk about Va's demographics and now being a purple or light blue state interesting, but you really need to get into the weeds to understand what is actually going on.  It's northern Va (where i live).  90% of all those new arrivals are concentrated in Alexandria, Arlington, Fairfax Co., Loudoun Co. and Prince William Co.  PW is still mainly red, Loudoun now goes both ways dependent on how the winds blowing, but the other three are the worst and Fairfax is the most populous.  It's kind of a tale of two states; the rest of the state isn't that much different or less conservative.  Its a problem in state-wide races. Look at the State houses; house of delegates is big-time republican; senate is evenly split.

its not that a conservative can't win, it's more of an issue of whether they're a good or bad candidate and can peel off enough votes in Fairfax and Loudoun.  Cooch could have used more money, but he could have fought back much more against the lies.  he might not have won still, but i bet Obenshain would not be having a recount now.

319 Ace doing strawman argument now. Posted by: D-Lamp at November 06, 2013 11:35 AM (bb5+k) I am used to it by now. Someone said last night, like your drunk friend at the New Years eve party, punching at everybody.

320 299 Hey Ace,

Nevergiveup (Jooo and I (another Jooo) are going out for a few beers with Satan, just after our meditation session.



Be careful there, Billy Bob got banned for that kind of talk.       Billy Bob got banned because he used "I was just joking" for his excuse to post anti-semitism.  And then being one of the constant whiners when ace put up a silly post.

321 Ben Bernanke had a quote about economics which applies to politics as well: "Economics is a highly sophisticated field of thought that is superb at explaining to policymakers precisely why the choices they made in the past were wrong. About the future, not so much."

322 Be careful there, Billy Bob got banned for that kind of talk.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 06, 2013 11:36 AM (0FSuD)

I doubt that's why he was banned.

323 I think the libertarian candidate hurt McAwful much more. We should run pro pot candidates in every election

324 >>>Cucc wasn't pushing anti-sodomy laws. That's not true. He used some obscure laws that were still on the books to put some child rapists in jail. He wasn't trying to outlaw gay sex or punish gays. He was AG. He used the laws on the books to hammer some fucking molesters.

Facts matter.

...

right, we need anti-sodomy laws to put child rapists in jail, because there are no laws against child rape. 

Facts matter, dude.  You said so yourself.

you fail to distinguish between his nonsense justification and reality.  In fact, all forms of rape, molestation, and solicitation of prostitutes are already criminal and always have been.  One doesn't need to ban ALL sodomy (including oral sex) in order to secure convictions.

325 "Acceptable," by the way, doesn't mean "agree." It just means that they're conditioned to not see it like it is "woo-woo spooky Mulder" out there.

326 He said that Cuccinelli's bill would have banned post-conception contraception.

---------


What the heck is "post conception contraception"? 

Talk about mangling the orwellian language.

327 I have no interest in the sodomy battle. I vote based on fiscal sanity, which means I don't have anyone to vote for these days. I left the party in 2007 over that. Christie is a no-go, I have no interest in big-gov Rs. When Republicans start fighting for fiscal sanity, it will be immediately evident. Until then, it's well drilling and ammo hoarding instead of donations. Colorado turned down a huge tax which would have hit real estate, and passed my favorite kind of tax (a voluntary one), so all in all it was a good night here. You experts can figure out VA, pfffht.

328 Brown (D-OH) Compares to Medicare rollout..., says the people opposed to that were racists. Fails to point out that 25% of Medicare claims are fraudulent , and that it is a slow-moving train wreck.

329

Reading is your friend.

 

 

 

Welcome  back, Gabriel.  I've missed your pissy, condescending tone in this thre-

 

 

Oh.  It's you.

330 "Rote, knee-jerk"?

Ok.

331 Oh, yeah!

332

Speaking of, I really do need to go back to doing yoga. I used to be able to do a wall split.

 

*drops circular firing squad weapons*

 

*runs like puppies around corner to recent comment*

333 Lesson two---when you've stepped in it, big time, pivot to boobeh pics.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at November 06, 2013 11:36 AM (GmTxn)


Why wait that long?  IYKWIMAITTYD

334

Cucc was the same person that won a Statewide election  four years previously.   He won a state wide primary in a state with a Republican governor and supermajority in the State house.   Why would he need to go to a candidate school  to learn how to win an election  in VA?

 

There were other forces in play other than the candidate and his strategy that were the cause of his defeat. 

335

>>A "normal" pro-life stance is one most people accept without immediately disqualifying you. So, pro-life, with the big three exceptions is "normal." Tinkering with birth control, in any manner, is not normal.<<

 

Details, please.  Because you kind of talked around the issue.  And if the GOP does that - just glides around it - the DNC just lobs out attacks on women, denying women health care, etc.

 

As to tinkering with birth control, in any manner?  Devil's in the details.  The DNC wants BC pills to underage girls w/o consent of the parents.  Gee - I wonder what the DNC would say to a GOPer who doesn't agree with that?

336 Ace never said "all contraception." He said that Cuccinelli's bill would have banned post-conception contraception. You don't get to play with the facts...that's the Dems' job. But that is the point. There were McAuliffe ads (oh, I know, from independent expenditure committees or whatever) saying that. That was the lie. Because it sounds better.

337 hmm, I don't see any good coming out of these posts except getting the Hoard riled up. Defeat is a bitter pill to swallow. Let's do it and move on. Off to lunch. BBL

338 I will repeat because this is important. The only issue to run on is repeal of obamacare. Don't run for anything else. Don't run against anything else. This is a sure fire winner proven over three election cycles. And no mitt did not run on it. He couldn't. And he ran on a 152 page economic plan of which I couldn't tell you one specific detail. 2014 run on repealing obamacare. That's it. Yes with Obama still in office you can't do it. Who cares. Run on it anyway. Yes people may have other issues they supposedly care about. They really don't. Run on repealing obamacare. Then run on it again in 2016. The GOP will fail if they start running on any other issue.

339 OT: Dear Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, Fuck you, Eddie Lacy, and the Seattle Seahawks' Defense giving up 24 god damned points to the fucking Bucs. Sincerely, The Felonious Monks

340 Brown - Touts his personal efforts to get people integrated into Medicare..., I mean, like he took folks down to the pharmacy himself.

341 I used to be able to do a wall split. Now, well, not so much.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at November 06, 2013 11:38 AM (VtjlW)

It's because you are hard-hearted.

342 Ace never said "all contraception." He said that Cuccinelli's bill would have banned post-conception contraception. If you believe life begins at conception, why is this 'morality policing?' Is life begins at conception an extremist position? This isn't about morality any more than any other anti-murder law is.

343 Speaking of, I really do need to go back to doing yoga. I used to be able to do a wall split. Now, well, not so much.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at November 06, 2013 11:38 AM (VtjlW)


Perhaps you need a coach.

Pick me!  Pick me!

344 Donate to the only group protecting American's Anal Rights!

345 >>>Sneaky implication? weasel words. When you get angry and frustrated you start to sound like a lefty.

so tell me: If an egg is fertilized but an IUD causes the uterine wall to shed and therefore prevents the egg from implanting, is that an abortion or not?

Truth now.

If it's life from the moment of fertilization, then the IUD is performing an abortion, right?

346 "So all the data and actual experts agree with me, Cucc did not run a so-con warrior campaign. Did not happen."

Cooch did not run a socon warrior campaign. Instead, Terry Mac ran an anti-socon-warrior campaign against Cooch. For which Cooch had provided an absolutely huge stack of fuel with his previous red-meat socon statements.

Example: Cooch saying, within recent memory (2009!) that homosexual acts are "contrary to natural law".

Someone might be able to win certain deep Bible Belt states with that kind of talk. But they can't win Virginia with it. Not these days.

I shouldn't have to keep saying this: some socons want to have arguments with the Democratic opposition about the acceptability of simply being gay.

But the reality is that on the other side of that argument are Will and Grace, and the argument came to an end fifteen years ago, and Will and Grace won it going away.

347 *runs like puppies around corner to recent comment* Posted by: The Horde at November 06, 2013 11:41 AM (BrQrN) Seriously, that gif is the single best visual representation of the Horde's response to a new post. This is also the point where I remind people I was a cheerleader. *bounds off all innocent*

348 I really do need go back to doing yoga. I used to be able to do a wall split. ----- It made me waaaay flexible, too. *turns head around backwards*

349 I remember when Dulles Airport was in the friggin' *boonies*.  There was nothing around.

350 bottom line: same people who voted for the idiots who ruined NY, CA, NJ and PA are now in Virginia voting for idiots who will govern just like idiot brethren in NY, CA, NJ, and PA. Awesome. You better freakin' what your ass, Texas.

351

It was Terry f'in McAuliffe......I don't care if you have a convicted murderer running against him, you do everything you can to keep him from being elected.

 

I guess, that is unless you are the GOP establishment and you are desperately trying to distance yourself from any candidate who might actually be (rather than purports to be) pro life or pro- small government.

 

Quit equivocating, yes, we know you love the GOP establishment and hate the tea party, but sometimes you are just as bad as the MSNBC folks who now are claiming that the governorship should have easily been in Republican hands and the defeat was a nationwide repudiation of the tea party and every single one of their racist ideas need to be thrown into the trash bin.

352 Burr (RINO-NC) Trying to staunch the bleeding from the bloody nose he got when voting for cloture on House continuing resolution.

353 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 06, 2013 11:38 AM (oJ5Fd) Meh, I'm fairly certain to be banned you'd have show the contraception in question actually causes a failure to implant. So yeah, the copper cross is out. As is RU-486 and possibly the newest EC pill from Eli Lilly. (whose name I'm always forgetting.) Not on this list: Implants, Mirena (which releases hormones) Plan B (which the science has shown is unlikely to effect implantation) the standard pill, condoms, spermicide, etc. So (as someone who..you know...actually has a background here) you're looking at maybe 1-2 specific bannings but no ban on any TYPE of birth control writ large (except RU-486.)

354 Ace Have you read Pete's post at 316? He breaks down the nova demographics.

355 That was the lie. Because it sounds better.

Posted by: blaster at November 06, 2013 11:41 AM (W6bkf)

If you think the problem was that Cuccinelli's stance on contraception was miscommunicated, then you're deluded.

It is the FACT that he was against some/most/all contraception that opened the door to the manipulation by the Dems.

356 If you want to claim someone ran a so-con campaign in 2013, you probably need to find something that actually did in 2013 while campaigning to prove your point. That might help. You have to argue in good faith.

357 This is also the point where I remind people I was a cheerleader. *bounds off all innocent*

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at November 06, 2013 11:43 AM (VtjlW)


Srsly???

358 whatever, this is a dishonest conversation.  People want to push this shit and then, when called on it, claim "Oh we didn't mean that."

yes you did.  Anyone who didn't mean that would have said "We don't mean that" in the bill.  The bill, by its own terms, says that any fertilized egg is a life, and therefore, by implication, any drug like a pill or device like an IUD which may interfere with the egg's ability to implant is destroying a life and a legally-recognized person as defined by law.

That IS and WAS the point.  But it's inconvenient, so you're pretending it wasn't.

359

Let's keep this simple:

 

Once again the Democrats took what they wanted, while the Republicans stood their with their thumbs up their backsides.

 

Libertarian candidate?  Where was the Green Party candidate, or some other diversion that would have skimmed 4 or 5% from MacAuliffe?  Is that too distasteful for the party of losers?  I think not.  Given how Rove and his ilk work, this isn't a question of "too messy."  They live for mud and filth.

 

And it wasn't a question of predicting the future.  It was a question of "do you want it, or don't you?"

 

This was winnable.  In retrospect it was *easily* winnable, against a despicable human being.

 

Once again the RINO's are playing games and not playing to win.

 

Note: I voted yesterday in NJ but I most decidedly did NOT vote for Christie.  I wouldn't vote for the communist that opposed him, of course, but I won't do the "hold my nose" thing anymore.

 

Let

It

Burn

360 "Details, please. Because you kind of talked around the issue"

-- So, say, no late-term abortion is a position people can accept as legitimate. But, it will be very hard to win as no abortions ever (even without the big three exceptions: physical health of the mother, rape, incest), because that position is much less accepted as legitimate, even if the listener disagrees with the position.

"As to tinkering with birth control, in any manner? Devil's in the details. The DNC wants BC pills to underage girls w/o consent of the parents. Gee - I wonder what the DNC would say to a GOPer who doesn't agree with that?"

-- You have to reframe that fight not about being about birth control. You focus on the health of the minor; parents' rights.

361 Burr (RINO-NC) Trying to staunch the bleeding from the bloody nose he got when voting for cloture on House continuing resolution. Posted by: Mike Hammer -------------- Hold it..., it is Thune (R-SD)

362 When McDonald got 2/3rds more support from the GOP than Cooch did, that's a big problem. We've been hearing how the "establishment" wanted to put us in our place, and now they get Big Mac in Va. Way to go Establishment! Now people are talking about how the growing Federal government is shifting the demographics around DC in Virginia. Well that's an easier fix. Shrink the government, and the pigs that feed on it will go away. People can blame Cooch. For not drawing more of the Establishment's support, but he had the base's support, and the Establishment should've shown unity instead of trying to teach us a lesson. If Cooch had a few extra bucks to counter Terry's spanish lingo assaults, it might have made a difference. Instead we had Republican office holders in Virginia endorsing the Democrat! They should be kicked out of the party. Then primarried. And not one dollar should ever go to them again. This loss is totally on the Establishment.

363 Perhaps you need a coach. Pick me! Pick me! Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 06, 2013 11:43 AM (JpC1K) Hmmm. You do have an excellent background in toadying and sucking up, not to mention the ability to provide access to heavy weaponry. Okay, Horde, counteroffers now open.

364 Finally pulled the eject handle.  SpongeBobSaget is retired.  Y'all work hard now and keep social security solvent.

365 >>>>If you want to claim someone ran a so-con campaign in 2013, you probably need to find something that actually did in 2013 while campaigning to prove your point.

That might help. You have to argue in good faith.

...

how about petitioning the court to re-install anti-sodomy laws in April 2013?

Oh right, he didn't do that WHILE CAMPAIGNING, just in his job as AG.  So people should just ignore that.  People should just trust that everything that comes out of his mouth is the Gold Standard, and ignore his actions and previous history.

366 *pokes head in, sees circular firing squad, dodges bullets, leaves*

367

>>People have been pouring IN to VA from CA(10k), CT(10k), NY(53k), PA(29k), NJ(29k), MD(20k)... ...while fleeing OUT of VA to FL(23k), GA(11K), NC(39k), TN(10k).<<

 

I'd ponder that the influx is made up of new government workers.  The people fleeing are the retiring military and government workers.

368 Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 06, 2013 11:44 AM (GaqMa)

Many contraceptives "may interfere with implantation."

That's all that is needed.

But really, that's not the issue.

He should have kept his fucking mouth shut and never handed the Dems a gold-plated opportunity to eviscerate him.

369 I'm sure it's been pointed out but, it would have cost the GOPe nothing to endorse him--even if he is a sure loser.

And that's what they withheld.

Find me a high-profile "Tea Party" candidate that refused to back the nominee. But, the GOPe doesn't want religion cooties.

AS the Book says, "me and my house will serve the Lord;" we don't need politicians.

The GOP can either join us or take their chances fighting for a share of the Donkey vote down in the pig shit.

And I say this as a guy who hasn't been to church in 13 years.

370 Oh please. Cuccinelli's loss had just about zero to do with his social stands. The guy was elected in Virginia before.

It had more to do with a lack of response as to how Democrats tainted his positions.

See a pattern here? Schumer outed the overall strategy when he said paint Republicans as "extreme"> It's their poll tested mantra.

There was not enough factual articulation because Cucinelli's campaign thought it would be distracting and ply to Democrats false accusations.

When you ignore the elephant in the room, he doesn't go away. He sits on you.

371 you fail to distinguish between his nonsense justification and reality. In fact, all forms of rape, molestation, and solicitation of prostitutes are already criminal and always have been. One doesn't need to ban ALL sodomy (including oral sex) in order to secure convictions. Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 11:40 AM (/FnUH) You fail to note that his argument was that the USSC ruling only applied to consensual sex between adults -- not children. The laws are already on the books and people already convicted who should be convicted but were trying to have their convictions reversed.

372 What exactly is a "normal" pro-life stance and how would it not be pilloried by the DNC, whose stance is now free abortions at any time up to delivery no matter what the reason.

Posted by: MacGruber

The normal position is exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother.  All my life, this was considered the mainstream, pro-life position.  Every pro-life President has had that stance.

Criminalizing abortion in a situation of rape is beyond the pale, and though Democrats would have campaigned on it, it wouldn't have gotten the same traction because most people are somewhere in the middle on the abortion issue. 

Are the SoCon retards really not going to concede that his is an extreme position that almost always simply elects pro-choice Democrats? 

373 Sebelius - Dismisses those who are in the individual marketplace, "They will be better off". Says *again* (time number 1000, or so) that people can keep their insurance.

374 RINOs on the attack They are the Vichy republicans. They know which way the wind blows. They believe ACA will kill the dems electorally. I can go with that

375 Srsly??? Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 06, 2013 11:45 AM (JpC1K) You missed me mentioning that before? Yeah, all through middle school and high school. Remember, once upon a time I was actually a very very wee alex indeed. I always say the only thing I would like back from being 19 is my measurements.

376 Are we really still arguing over akin? His statement was indefensible. Don't most people agree? I suspect most people would agree that supporting anti sodomy laws will not play well in most states particularly purple ones. I understand the facts here may be more nuanced but it is hard to explain a nuanced position. This prbly hurt cuch. Though I doubt it was the sole factor. I'm not sure why it needs to be debated much.

377 KC spent his time as AG being SoCon Warrior man (not just that, he did good things as well) so it doesn't matter that he made more moderate noises while actually campaigning. Past performance matters.

378 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 06, 2013 11:47 AM (oJ5Fd) Eh, the wording pushed upon various drugs by various people (including the FDA) often has very limited basis in science. Perhaps he shouldn't have given them a golden opportunity, but then, there's the rub isn't it. He had convictions he stood for them, it cost him the race. Such is life I suppose. Ideally we'd have found a better candidate with different convictions, but I'm not sure I want to suggest candidates shouldn't have convictions at all.

379 tsrblke,

sorry dude, the mini-pill also may cause a failure to implant.

So you're banning the IUD and mini-pill.

In what sense, then, is McAuliffe lying when he says you would ban "some" birth control?

380 The GOP needs a "candidate school" where they can be told which toxic issues to avoid like the plague, because there's quite a few who are too fucking stupid to figure it out on their own

What they really need is to learn how to change the subject and attack when gotchas are thrown at them on contentious issues. Dems have plenty of toxic positions and histories that would destroy them if they didn't deflect focus on them.

The thought should always be, "How can I deflect this question into a forceful, emotion-laden attack on how my opponent is an evil person who wants to hurt everyone, rather than defensively trying to explain it away?"

381 You missed me mentioning that before? Yeah, all through middle school and high school.  Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at November 06, 2013 11:49 AM (VtjlW)


Well.  This certainly paints you in a whole new light.

S'cuse me.

BRB.  Bunk

382 I always say the only thing I would like back from being 19 is my measurements.


36-24-36?  Only if she's 5'3"!!!

383 I think you're exactly right on this one, Ace. Cuccinelli's surge had little to do with his positions or likeability, or anything else about his - it was the Obamacare debacle that no one envisioned would be this catastrophic this quickly. No anti-Tea Party conspiracies, although those are often more satisfying to those on the losing side as opposed to admitting their candidate was simply a poor candidate.

384 You can argue that Cucc was a so-con warrior who just tried to hide his so-con warrior nature by running away from past so-con warrior positions. But you can't argue that Cucc campaigned in 2013 as a so-con warrior. Because that did not happen. You can't argue somebody campaigned as gun-grabber if they spend the whole campaign vowing that they will pass no laws that limit gun rights. You can argue they are lying, and secretly a gun-grabber, and not to be trusted because of their tricksy ways. But you can't say something happened that manifestly did not happen. Well, you can, but you seriously hurt your credibility. Really think you guys are wishcasting on this. You want the so-con warrior to be defeated and purged. So you falsely claiming Cucc ran as a so-con warrior and that caused his defeat. That did not happen.

385 Isakson (R-GA) Are navigators going to obtain income information from applicants Sebelius - Uh, only if applicants want to provide it.

386 I love the SoCon retards shit the RINOs push. Yeah guys, refusing to endorse their candidates and calling them names is really a surefire winning strategy for the party. And I say this as a devout agnostic.

387

Ace, trolling the blog...

 

Lovely.  We get it, Ace.  You hate conservative Christians. 

 

Amazingly though, this one ALMOST won a race, in spite of having everything stacked against him, including people like you.

 

Why are you so angry?  Be  happy.  Your candidate won. 

388 Maybe "campaigned as" isn't the right phrase, so much as "defined as." Not letting your opponent define you is politics 101.

389

Don't know if Jinx the Cat or some other Loudouner from VA has posted it, but Loudoun had some major split ticket action:  majorities (some slim) for the Ds at the state level, but returned all of our R delegates to the state house--by slimmer margins than last time, but the top-ticket activity did not blow them away.

 

390

>>So, say, no late-term abortion is a position people can accept as legitimate. But, it will be very hard to win as no abortions ever (even without the big three exceptions: physical health of the mother, rape, incest), because that position is much less accepted as legitimate, even if the listener disagrees with the position.<<

 

If you are going to say no late-term abortion is a position most people can accept, you had better come ready to play by backing up your position with facts and logic because the DNC is hammering you as being a vagina-hating misogynist.

 

I know - how about point out that there are only about three countries in the world that allow late-term abortions - China and North Korea being two of them.

 

But no, we don't do that.

 

For every time we get painted as vagina-hating warriors of women, we need to push back and call them Gosner supporters.  Communist eugenic overlords.

 

Sorry, but the GOP has pretty much allowed the DNC to call the shots and set the tone of the debate.  And the GOP won't let the Tea Party fight back.

Now we have McAsshole setting up to use the VA governor's mansion as Hillary's presidential campaign HQ.

391 Splatter. This supports my position on running against obamacare.

392 What's lunch, guys? Grilling a chop. Tired of jello. Can't we all just get along?

393 Note: I voted yesterday in NJ but I most decidedly did NOT vote for Christie. I wouldn't vote for the communist that opposed him, of course, but I won't do the "hold my nose" thing anymore.

Let
It
Burn

Posted by: RobM1981 at November 06, 2013 11:45 AM (dFemX)

I voted in NJ yesterday myself. I had the pleasure of hearing one of the poll workers talk about how excited it is to see 18 years show up and vote, because raising the minimum wage was soooo important to their future.

At that point I entered the booth, found the R column, didn't even look at the names and voted straight R. Why? To cancel out the vote of that communist scumbag standing outside of it.

394 Isakson - If background checks for navigators were required, would you support that? Sebelius - If Congress were to mandate that, we would *consider it*. Me - WTF?

395 Welcome Governor Terry! ...And good luck chump!

396 His candidate did not win. He made that very clear People just want to be left alone, in all things Why is that so hard to understand

397 What the heck is "post conception contraception"?
Talk about mangling the orwellian language.

Latin is racist.

398 Why all the hand-wringing? Cuccinelli had issues, including lack of money, but still got very close and 53% of Virginians voted against McAuliffe in a purple state. Christie won huge in a blue state. If I were a democrat, I'd be very worried about the continuing Obamacare debacle- it's going to bite them in the ass.

399 What's lunch, guys? Grilling a chop. Tired of jello. Can't we all just get along? Posted by: NCKate -------------------- Local drugstore lunch counter. Right now I'm thinking grilled ham and cheese.., though I had only a light breakfast, so may go with bacon (!) and eggs.

400 I get that this is an emotional issue for many people. But your emotions are severely clouding your judgment and ability to think rationally about what actually happened. And you are lashing out viciously and cruelly at people who are describing reality accurately.

401

>>The normal position is exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother. All my life, this was considered the mainstream, pro-life position. Every pro-life President has had that stance.<<

 

Times have changed.  The DNC has now decided the normal position for abortion is on demand.  And paid for by the taxpayer.  Heck, they even put it in their platform.

Go ahead, try to argue otherwise.  You'll be just another lizard-brained woman-hater.

 

 

402 Shifting VA demographics  ---> The FSA and their enablers.  It is after all the Mecca for the largesse.

403 Bullshit they didn't know "obamacare would be an issue".

It's the same shit with guys like Krauthammer who "didn't know who Obama was" until weeks after his election.

They are either liars or idiots, and I have no room for them. 

404 "Had a "normal" pro-life Republican been nominated, he would have easily put away McAuilffe. Instead they nominated Virginia's version of Rick Santorum.

Posted by: McAdams at November 06, 2013 11:09 AM (CX5il)"

So the lesson is that there is not place for anybody who believes in plain vanilla Catholicism in American politics any more.  Thank you.  That is good to know.

405 As a pro lifer here is one simple rule to follow. Don't use god or the church as the basis for your support (even if it is). Better yet avoid it all together. Another simple rule when rape and incest come up only express how horrible that must be. Be empathetic. If you follow those two rules you will eliminate most dumb statements.

406 Back to Ace's post:

"And as far as Obamacare: While many of us predicted Obamacare would be bad, I don't think many of us predicted it would be this bad this quickly."

What made the race close was Obama's Arlington campaign appearance with Terry McAullife. That video, I bet, was on every TV evening newscast in Virginia. If Cuccinelli had the money, he would have had 36 hours for repeating it in TV ads. But he didn't have the do-re-mi to do it.

407 Latin is racist. Posted by: HeatherRadish ------------ Do be not be contrarius.

408 @388

That's right; Loudoun was closer for Cooch than i expected.  Ramadan is my delegate; he only won by 200 this time (vs 500 last time).  Kind of surprised me because there were ZERO signs anywhere for Bell.  He did a bunch of mailings basically smearing Ramadan on his business and on all the women's health crap.

LaRock, who is much more conservative than his predecessor that he primaried , ended up winning by 3-4% I believe, so again, cant paint Va with a broad brush despite the mcA win.

409 People just want to be left alone, in all things
Why is that so hard to understand

Possibly because it's not true for the majority of Americans.  They don't want to be "let alone"--they want the government to give them stuff and take stuff away from other people.

410 What's lunch, guys? Grilling a chop. Tired of jello. Can't we all just get along?  Posted by: NCKate at November 06, 2013 11:53 AM (2VHEL)

No.

The calendar on the wall says it's time for the Quarterly SoCon Bashing™.

411 All the recriminations about this election, and the precriminations about the next one, just serve to reenforce my belief that our Republic is fatally broken. Large factions, regional and intraparty, just talk past each other. One side think the the other is seeing things that aren't there while the other side cannot understand why their opponents don't see what plainly stands before them. In other words, the large, diverse, unitary republic is a failing model. At this point, all I can imagine working is a return to the limited constitutional regime of the 1800s, or a movement to a looser confederacy of states. One where the inhabitants of Alabama need be no more concerned about the doings of NJ than the doings of Frenchmen. Let a thousand flowers bloom and let people vote with their feet about which social models are working.

412 Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 11:50 AM (/FnUH) My understanding of the mini-pill's mechanism is that it's ability to inhibit implantation is theoretical at best given the totality of it's mechanism of action. (It works in variety of ways that I won't describe in detail and all of them would have to fail except for one for such a thing to occur.) I admitted you'd be banning the copper cross, although I suspect the Mirena IUD would still pass muster. (Although I confess my specific knowledge on it's mechanism is a bit sparse) Of course all of this is highly theoretical anyway because such a law would likely never pass. He had a legislative history, it contained oddities, no doubt. But the argument here seems to be that standard "we have to jettison the SoCons!" which I think, is a bad idea, they are still a part of the coalition that is necessary. Find a way to deal with that. Otherwise shut up, because demanding they leave puts us weaker than we were before.

413 GOP needs to learn - answer every question - EVERY QUESTION - with 3 negative things about the other side. You know who gets that? Ted Cruz. Watch him. He gets it.

414 I'm also not seeing any commentary on the fact the for all of his awesomeness, Christie had almost zero coattails. The state party as a whole did not benefit very much from his win. The legislature remains solid D.  And the NJ electorate also constitutionally enshrined a perpetual minimum-wage-hike law that was backed by the unions and opposed by Christie (the governor, not the candidate).

Those who are pointing to Christie as a GOP moderate savior in 2016 should dig a little deeper. It's a case of personality over policy, IMO.

415

Let's run a milk toast moderate, fund him all the way, and give him all the support of the party, and he fucking loses.

 

Let's run a conservative, the first guy to fight zerocare, give him no fucking money and let in a third party candidate to siphon off of 7% of the vote without vetting this asshole to find out he's nothing more than a dem plant.

 

Hmmm, we have possibilities of success with one, things we can change.  The other, not so much.

 

Fuck Bolling.  Fuck the GOP establishment.  They starve our candidates.  We starve them.

416 >>>You can argue that Cucc was a so-con warrior who just tried to hide his so-con warrior nature by running away from past so-con warrior positions.

But you can't argue that Cucc campaigned in 2013 as a so-con warrior. Because that did not happen.

...

yeah I know that.  But it is perfectly predictable and reasonable that people would look at a candidate's record.  You seem to be suggesting it's somehow Dirty Pool to scrutinize a candidate's actual record and previous positions and sponored bills.

Which is insane.  You would never in a thousand years say this about a Democrat -- or a RINO -- but when it comes to a socon, you're laying down the fantastical "rule" that only the things a candidate says on a campaign trail should inform a voter's decision.

417 MSM - So you are running for Governor as a Republican?

Candidate (R) - Yes!

MSM - So do you think that homosexual bans and anti-sodomy laws are necessary or just a perk of the office?

Candidate (R) - I would like to talk about fiscal issues.

MSM - I'll just put you down for women-hating vagina-spackler. Any kids?

Candidate (R) - Yes , 3 actually.

MSM - "Extreme Anti- abortion wacko" got it!

Candidate (R) - That's not...

MSM - Well as long as it's not a DICK amirite, fag-basher?
Thats all the time we have. Thanks again to Candidate (R) and best of luck on your self righteous Tea Party Jihad !

Candidate (R) ...

418 Sebelius - Asked about the potential for 30 million *new* uninsured, replies, "I hope that doesn't happen".

419 Please list the sort of things "Establishment" Republicans did to torpedo Cuccinelli? 

At the end of the day, if a moderate Republican doesn't like a Culture Warrior like Cuccinelli, isn't it their right to not donate large sums of money?

I mean, if the VA GOP nominated a pro-choice Republican, I wouldn't expect Right-to-Life groups to start writing checks.  And you better believe every SoCon conservative would be proudly shouting how they're not giving a penny to the baby killer.

But when the show is on the other foot, suddenly it's an outrage.

SoCons are always threatening to leave the GOP is their demands aren't met, but when they get their dingbat gets nominated, they think their being torpedoed because the other wing is holding enough fundraisers for them.

The national organizations stopped throwing money at Cuccinelli not because they didn't like his opposition to ObamaCare, they did it because they did their own polls and for months he was losing by double digits.

420 Posted by: MacGruber at November 06, 2013 11:52 AM (sWgE+) Yes. Many of the same people who are disgusted by China's practice of aborting babies once they find out they're girls and the same ones who advocate for no limits on abortion in the US -which obviously includes sex-selection abortions. This may be the only 'winning' way a republican can frame the argument.

421 As a pro lifer here is one simple rule to follow. Don't use god or the church as the basis for your support

----------



A clear argument can be made that human beings are not the property of other human beings, and cannot be disposed of for the benefit of the property owner.  In other words, we outlawed this shit a long time ago. 

422 The mainstream position on abortion post-Obamacare is that anyone receiving government support for medical care, including purchasing through the exchanges, will accede to the State's determination of which pregnancies may be carried to term. IOW, it is perfectly acceptable to oppose abortion. In your heart. But don't go looking to the ruling class for help when you are forced to have an abortion for fiscal reasons. This is why I have never been sold on the notion that the GOP should be solely the party of fiscal issues, with no stance on moral issues.

423 Will one of you morons make my sick self some homemade chicken soup?

*hack* *cough* *hack*

424 noone - Pretty much covers it. The MSM are our enemy. A vile, truly evil, influence.

425 It looks to me like the republicans didn't care about the virginia governor's race and the nyc mayoral election.  There was no viable republican in the mayoral election and, once Lhota stated that he would not have shut the subway down to find the kittens, he was done, toast, gone from anyone's radar.  NYC does not elect kitten killers.  With Cuccinelli it was simply a case of the GOP not wanting to support a perceived tea party guy, they'd rather have the dem.  Same with the RGA, they'd rather have the dem.  The lines are drawn, the regular RINO GOP, RGA wants no tea partiers, they'd rather have a dem and lose.  If Jindhal runs the RGA then wasn't he a tea party guy and has forgotten his roots?

Ron Paul recognized that cuccinelli could win and did the best he could counteracting the fake libertarian.  Sarah Palin realized this and stayed away publicly so as not to further inflame the GOP's anti tea party faction.  Guys like savage coming out for Christie and panicking (live on air) over seeing cuccinelli lose shows that the any republican is better than no republican theme is alive and well among the RINO republicans.  They took all the elections last night as a sign that conservatives are dead in the water, unelectable.  They see their only avenue in most states is a republican who, twenty years ago, would have been happy to be a conservative in the democratic party, a conservative democrat.  They lost their home in the left wing democrat controlled party so they've gone to the republicans and been welcomed with open arms by the RINO, Rovian faction.

It looks as though the tea party is going to have to create a new party and become a force to be reckoned with or perish.  The republicans don't want them, the conservatives don't want them and the libertarians don't want them.  The dems did an excellent job of branding them as the enemy literally.  No one wants to publicly be associated with a group that is now looked upon as a scary fringe group.   Beck may be right, the republican party needs to go but notice, he started a series on "some powerful people" and suddenly he's back to having boring programs where he talks about nonsense and makes jokes.  Guess he's intimidated by the powerful people and decided not to take them on which is sad cause the people who are disgusted with being so highly taxed now have no friend anywhere.

426 Ace, no matter how they spin it, the VAGOP, RNC, RGA, et. al made a conscious decision not to support Cuccinelli. Contrast their contributions to McDonnell's campaign (a sure thing) with the amount they gave to Cuccinelli. The dollar amounts speak for themselves.

427

Oh, and this sodomy shit, Ace.  Yes you have the power of google, but apparently stop there. 

 

He wanted it overturned to GO AFTER PEDOPHILES.  Never to use such a decision to go after consenting adults.

 

But keep regurgitating McAuliffe's ads, I guess running them 25 times a day to our 1 ad worked after all.

428 Blaster. You are correct on that. Every question should have obamacare in the response. I would talk about obamacare all the time.

429 Mike, that all sounds good too. Gorgeous day here in Carolina to be out and about.

430 LESSON 1 - "handling the media"

1) NEVER give an interview without having YOUR STAFF also record it. 

2) ENSURE the reporter knows that you are also recording it.

3) NEVER agree to talk to a reporter that you haven't done a full background investigation on.  You want to know if they've got any dirt you can use to your advantage if they start getting out of line.

4) Review ALL prior available work from that reporter before talking to to them.  They're all gonna have some sort of behavioral quirks or tells that will let you know when the interview is about to turn hostile.  It might be paper shuffling, they go hostile after X number of normal questions, they adjust their clothing, etc.  There's gonna be something.  That's your que to have an aide interrupt and end the interview because of some faux "emergency"

431 In re: VA delta demographics; It is something conservatives have to come to grips with in order to not be surprised. Demographics do change, sometimes wthin a space of just a few years (Detroit, Cincinnati, etc in the 68-78 era). And the type of change needs to be acknowledge too - which few do. Some changes are too far, too radical to be anticipated under the Constitution. Communists and other socialists (Fabian, fascists, etc) can not and can never be legitimately wielding political power under the Constitution - in exactly the same incapacity as a Monarchist or a Feudal Barony-ist. None of those political positions are valid under our Republic - yet those socialist political positions are indoctrinated to entire generations of certain regions. Some demographic changes are the same as secession. Let's just accept that some states (California, Illinois) can never be trusted to be in the main, loyal. Some change is fatal to the Union.

432 WTF? Cantor's (ex)STAFF was working with McCauliffe? Again WHAT THE FUCK!

433 Why are you so angry? Be happy. Your candidate won.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 06, 2013 11:52 AM (TOk1P)

Stop being a dick.

434 @418
SoCons are always threatening to leave have already left the GOP...

FTFY
 

435 What exactly is a "normal" pro-life stance and how would it not be pilloried by the DNC, whose stance is now free abortions at any time up to delivery no matter what the reason. Make them say it. Make them say, Cuccinelli is too extreme because he doesnÂ’t support late-term abortions. Rather than, Cuccinelli is too extreme because he doesnÂ’t support standard forms of birth control.

436 Posted by: McAdams at November 06, 2013 11:09 AM (CX5il) Thank God we have President McCain followed by President Romney to fix all of that.

437 tsrblke,

well, what mcauliffe said was true, his bill would have made SOME birth control illegal. Certainly Cuccinelli made no efforts to safe-harbor birth control in the bill itself, even after he was warned it would have this effect.

As for this:

>>>He had a legislative history, it contained oddities, no doubt. But the argument here seems to be that standard "we have to jettison the SoCons!" which I think, is a bad idea, they are still a part of the coalition that is necessary

I never said that.

But what I'm tired of is New, Extreme versions on shit we were already losing on in the Old (and Therefore Comfortable and Non-Alarming) standard versions.

Let me just lay down the fact: Anyone who flirts with the idea of banning birth control is going to lose, and he SHOULD lose.

Abortion is one thing, but when you start with this "Well sometimes the pill causes abortions..." crap, goodbye.  You're all done. That really is a War on Women, and an attempt to "control women's sexuality," precisely as the left charges.

438 Pete, David Ramadan won by only 50 last time.  Because his name is "Ramadan", he gets attacked not only by Ds, but by some Rs as a stealth Sharia Muslim Brotherhood terrorist.  His primary opponent from the last election had bell signs on her lawn.  This was actually a better win for him!

439 Will one of you morons make my sick self some homemade chicken soup? *hack* *cough* *hack* Posted by: Jane D'oh ---------------------------- So that boob-waving stuff last night was on account of delirium?

440 270 ---"...Cuccinelli's bill did, by sneaky implication, ban many birth control pills (or would have, had it become law; actually the SC would have struck that down, but that was the intent)." ------------------ You keep saying that was the intent, that this was a sneaky effort by a secret cabal engaged in (I assume) a Papist plot. I think, as a New Yorker, you may be confused about Virginia's pro-life demographic. You automatically connect "pro-life" and "Catholic." The Catholic Church opposes contraception, therefore pro-lifers (wink-wink) do. The fact that Cuccinelli himself is Catholic of course helps trigger than association. But Virginia's pro-life movement is heavily dominated by Protestants who do not oppose contraception. If he ever advocated banning conventional birth control bills and devices, who would support him? (Most Catholic pro-lifers wouldn't, BTW, but the Protestants would be up in arms against him.) I agree with much of what you say about the tactics, behavior, and stupid purist gestures of these politicos, but this DaVinci-code conspiracy stuff is just loco.

441 yeah I know that. But it is perfectly predictable and reasonable that people would look at a candidate's record. You seem to be suggesting it's somehow Dirty Pool to scrutinize a candidate's actual record and previous positions and sponored bills. Which is insane. You would never in a thousand years say this about a Democrat -- or a RINO -- but when it comes to a socon, you're laying down the fantastical "rule" that only the things a candidate says on a campaign trail should inform a voter's decision. Well, duh. However, it wasn't enough for his record, McAuliffe and supporters had to lie about it. So the rule should be, don't do anything that the other side will lie about. Okay. But another good rule should be "don't promote the other side's lies about your side."

442 Buono was set up to take a fall and give Christy a clear path and make Booker a senator He made a deal with the dems. I have no doubt. It explains the inexplicable appointment he made after Lautenberg died and the rapid expensive election. He has not beat the dem party, he is working with them Is this the model we think we can replicate in other states? How could this ever translate to a Presidential election?

443 Make DC a state and give them all of the bordering counties in MD and VA. This would do wonders for DC, MD & VA. I live in MD where we want our western counties to be allowed to for our own state b/c we are routinely governed by the ultra-populous, ultra-liberal DC suburbs.

444 Sebelius - I don't think grandfathering will work..., Unspoken: "..for us."

445 If you guys honestly believe that the allocation of political funds isn't motivated politically to elevate or marginalize political actors in a political contest where the outcomes affect the legitimancy of political factions vying for political dominance of a political entity you are not participating in reality.  Its the economy of politics, stupid.

446 Make DC a state and give them all of the bordering counties in MD and VA. Honest to god, if there were some way to say, if you work for a government, you canÂ’t vote in elections for that government, IÂ’d be for it. Which now makes me unelectable at any level, of course.

447
It seems to me the GOP does want to jettison the so-cons as just too icky.  As far as that goes, they seem to want to jettison the fi-cons too, they liked being the smaller Big Govt party.  The establishment is definitely not what the platform says, the GOP has moved left.

Maybe this is the start of the 20 years in the wilderness that we have all been predicting until it is taken over or dies and is replaced.

448 If Cucinelli had only supported the new taxes and rail lines that McDonnell forced through, he could have won as a moderate. Well, at least the big GOP donors would not have supported the democrat.

449 431 WTF? Cantor's (ex)STAFF was working with McCauliffe? Again WHAT THE FUCK!

Posted by: Iblis at November 06, 2013 12:03 PM (9221z)

 

 

Yes, this goes back to the silly bitchiness of the Virginia GOP.  That's what it was all about - many of them despise Ken Cuccinelli and would do anything to wreck his career.  I have a close relative who works for a very prominant VA Repub, I know of what I speak.

450 From April of this very year:

Virginia Attorney General
Ken Cuccinelli (R) is urging a federal appeals court to overturn a
decision by a panel of state judges declaring an anti-sodomy law
unconstitutional.

---ace

I believe that's his job.

451 When asked about rape abortion cases, the first and only thing a prolife Republican candidate should do is deflect to reports of Planned Parenthood covering up rapes, then pound the podium about his opponent's "refusal to protect women" from them, followed by Gosnell and other monsters, followed up by how much he cares for his own daughters and wants them to be protected from pro-rape savages like his opponent, etc, etc

452 While I can fault the RGA and RNC and big-pocket donors for not seeing that Obamacare would tighten up a once-unwinnable race into a winnable one, I can't fault them that much, because Predicting the future is hard. Don't remember where I read it, but there was a claim that RGA-sponsored TV commercials stopped running in VA a few weeks ago. Assuming there's some truth to this, that probably didn't help.

453 If he ever advocated banning conventional birth control bills and devices, who would support him?

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at November 06, 2013 12:04 PM (dfYL9)

It's called the Law of Unintended Consequences.

It doesn't matter if Cuccinelli's intent was to incarcerate pedophiles. If the law can be construed in such a way as to call for the banning of certain contraceptives, then that is the reality of the law, and no matter what the intent was, somebody will advocate for it to be used in this way.

454 >>>He wanted it overturned to GO AFTER PEDOPHILES. Never to use such a decision to go after consenting adults.

sure, let's just take his campaign claims as true.

sex with children is already a crime. Why does he need to outlaw blowjobs to convict someone for sex with a child?

This is a fucking lie and after this I'm done here.  I am sick of arguing with dishonest people.

Here we go:  Before sodomy laws were overturned, the right claimed "but no one is ever prosecuted under these laws, anyway."

That wasn't completely true, but it was 99% true:  People were only arrested for sex which was otherwise illegal (solicitation, abuse of a minor), then had a sodomy rap thrown on them for good measure. But this was gratuitous, given that the "real" crime carried a big penalty.

It simply is not true that Cuccinelli "needs" an anti-sodmy law -- which so many socons assured me was "never used anyway" (and they were mostly right about that) -- to lock people up for child rape or soliciting hustlers in a highway rest stop. Again, that is illegal conduct (and no one challenges its illegality), so while you COULD throw on a sodomy rap for good measure, you don't need to.

What you want, actually, though you are not MAN enough to admit, is an official state ban on sodomy.  You want it, just to have that on the state's list of forbiddances.  Why you want that, I cannot guess; it seems fucking stupid to me.

and that's what cuccinelli wanted.  And you dress this bullshit up to claim that you do not want what you CLEARLY want.

if cuccinelli wanted a new law to forbid sex with a child --not sure why; VA already has one -- he could have introduced that law.  Instead, he fought for a blanket reinstatement of a law banning ALL sodomy, oral as well the dirty one, gay or straight.

455

@ 426 - "Oh, and this sodomy shit, Ace. Yes you have the power of google, but apparently stop there.

He wanted it overturned to GO AFTER PEDOPHILES. Never to use such a decision to go after consenting adults."

 

As I'm sure Ace can tell you, not supporting a candidate so that teh gheys stay happy is more important than supporting him so that you can have jobs and oppose ObamaCare and stuff.

456 Ace I agree with you that abortion can be a bad issue for GOP. But it is also an issue that brings a lot of people to the party. Unfortunately unless you have someone who has really given it some thought (such as Ryan or Cruz) they will say dumb stuff. I would not expect that from Ryan or Cruz. I would expect Christie to find a way to dance around the issue while coming off as strong pro life. It can be done. And it should be done. But some people can't do it. But I am not of opinion that GOP should simply drop it or avoid ot

457 Anyone who flirts with the idea of banning birth control is going to lose, and he SHOULD lose.

By less than 3% or whatever.  Meaning a significant percentage of voters didn't know/care what he said or , I know it's crazy agreed with him.

458 Re: VA. It was amazing to see CNN's electoral map. It first blush it looked bad for Terry McSleazy -- it was all red -- then they said they were waiting on D.C. results. Seems like it's another state that'll be dragged around by the balls by the stupid people in high-population centers, like LA, NYC, etc.

459 BTW--I'm trying to stay out of the Cuccinelli Circular Firing Squad Post-Mortem, but I thought the following tidbit might be of interest: He won the Independent vote by 9%. http://tinyurl.com/nna2umm Seeing as my state elected as its head of its state Supreme Court Roy frakking Moore, I have nothing further to say.

460 Yes, this goes back to the silly bitchiness of the Virginia GOP. That's what it was all about - many of them despise Ken Cuccinelli and would do anything to wreck his career. I have a close relative who works for a very prominant VA Repub, I know of what I speak. Purge time. You know its the same dynamic with Steve Lonegan. Christie hated him, and did everything he could to sabotage him. Then the GOP Establishment let Booker & his imaginary friends outspend him 10-1. Booker was totally beatable too.

461 >>>Ken Cuccinelli (R) is urging a federal appeals court to overturn a

decision by a panel of state judges declaring an anti-sodomy law

unconstitutional.

---ace

I believe that's his job.

...

is it?

a lot of other AG's declined to appeal.  Apparently Cuccinelli thought the anti-sodomy law was worth fighting for.

I love people who I KNOW enjoy blowjobs arguing so vigorously that blowjobs should be an actual CRIME you can go to JAIL for.

Why?  Because we all have to "nod" and "gesture" towards lunacies we don't believe to be true?  because we just like to fuck ourselves over in elections?  Because we're so determined to thwart the left we'll cut our own throats before we admit "Yeah they might have had a point on that one..."?

462 >>>Which is insane. You would never in a thousand years say this about a Democrat -- or a RINO -- but when it comes to a socon, you're laying down the fantastical "rule" that only the things a candidate says on a campaign trail should inform a voter's decision.

I have no idea why Flatbush Joe refuses to acknowledge this simple, obvious point.  He calls people who say Cooch ran as a so-con "liars" and insists that just because he did all his so-con signalling in the three years PRIOR to the campaign, and then tried to run a "Ima all about business!" line during the last five months, it somehow doesn't count and people should and will forget all that other shit. 

It's truly, truly bonkers and he ought to lay down arms on this.  It's illogical.

463 Thank God we have President McCain followed by President Romney to fix all of that.

Posted by: blindside

That's basically the standard idiotic response to whenever people say "hey, this SoCon position is too extreme"

Well, now that you have Governor Cuccinelli, I guess that proves your point.  Oh wait.

Do you really think Romney and McCain lost because they didn't go far enough on issues like abortion and birth control?

464 Barbarausa,

D'oh!  You are right!  I think was the 3 PW Co. precincts that did it for him last time.

465

Yeah McAdams, and he lost by a couple of fucking points.  With no money.

 

Keep it up geniuses, your side of the party clearly can pick the winners:

 

GHWB, Dole, GWB (first losing popular vote), McCain and Romney!!!!

 

Yay!!!!  Genius fucking election strategies right there.

466 >>>By less than 3% or whatever. Meaning a significant percentage of voters didn't know/care what he said or , I know it's crazy agreed with him.

this is why I say this is a dishonest conversation:  Because, among all the people swearing on a Bible (which I don't think they should do when they're lying) that they would never THINK to ban birth control, you'll occasionally find the person who hasn't realized that lying is a better strategy, and who then admits "Yes, that's what we're in favor of, that's exactly what we want."

467 It seems to me the GOP does want to jettison the so-cons as just too icky. As far as that goes, they seem to want to jettison the fi-cons too, they liked being the smaller Big Govt party. -- They're "pro business." All of the spending they want to do is couched in that. All of the lines in the sand that they are willing to draw are couched in that. I have been engaged in politics for 40 years, since I was a kid working on campaigns, and I never liked this wing of the GOP. But they're running the show now. Mitt failed because he was an arrogant, clueless prick who thought the plebes should be satisfied with jobs at Office Max and who look down on (and talked down to) anyone who found themselves needing govt help. He presented an overly complicated plan that did nothing to address kitchen table issues. But per the folks in charge the reason he lost was the SoCons.

468 LESSON 2 - dealing with the media

Don't answer quickly, even if you could.  Appear "thoughtful" and considered.  This delay in answering gives YOU time to think ahead about whether the question is setting up a trap.  Use that time to formulate some innocuous deflection that avoids the trap.  You can change topics, lapse into the telling of a lengthy story to burn time, etc. 

Learn how to talk at length about several innocuous topics of local importance.  These can be your "go to" deflections when you need to burn up 10 minutes and run out the clock on the reporters allocated time slot with you.  You're NOT their only job that day. 

The more you waste their time on things they can't do a "gotcha" on the itchier they will be to get out of there.

Study old tapes of former Albany mayor Erastus Corning.  He was a master of wasting reporter's time and running out the clock

469 Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 12:03 PM (/FnUH) Your argument is effectively "we should have no candidates past this point on the belief scale." Which I don't think is a bad argument per se actually. There have to be limits. The problems is navigating the coalition we've put together which, is not entirely coherent at times. We need to dissect the coalition that occurred to get Cuccinelli past the primaries. If it turns out that we really don't need a part of that coalition (say the more convicted Pro-Life/anti-contraception group) to make it through the general, then we jettison it next time (that's good politics.) But jettisoning it merely for the sake of doing something may be counter productive, especially if you do need those votes to get to a winning number and have no plan for backfilling the gap.

470 I also blame the Fi-cons and libertarians who were so stupid that they wasted their vote on that fraud Sarvis instead of trying to beat McCauliffe.

471

@459 - "You know its the same dynamic with Steve Lonegan. Christie hated him, and did everything he could to sabotage him. Then the GOP Establishment let Booker & his imaginary friends outspend him 10-1. Booker was totally beatable too."

 

So why is it okay for the GOP-E to sacrifice an election if it means a guy in their own Party that they don't like doesn't get elected...but it's bad if the Tea Partiers and other conservatives were to decide to do the same thing?

 

472 I guess the fight is what you define birth control as.

473

The McAuliffe campaign attacked Cucinelli on abortion early and often. ItÂ’s the same play theyÂ’ve used in Virginia races for the last 15 or 20 years; it doesnÂ’t always work (Bob McDonnell) but it is pretty effective. Could Cucinelli have responded in a way that didnÂ’t look like a flip flop or offend his base? I donÂ’t know.  I never saw an attempt. Being pro -life does not lend itself to 30 second sound bites, particularly if people think you want to ban birth control pills.

KC had a great personal story to tell (he freed from jail a black guy who was wrongly imprisoned; organized a campaign while he was in college to deter violence against women) but McAuliffeÂ’s ads hammered in that he was against a womanÂ’s right to choose. In northern Virginia that was very effective.

Sarvis, the Libertarian, got about 6% of the vote and did particularly well with younger voters. He may have been as much trouble for McAuliffe as for Cucinelli. An Obama bundler from Missouri was one of his major donors. The Koch brothers should fund progressive or green candidates in places like Virginia, Florida, Pennsylvania and North Carolina.   

474

Regarding the demographics.....it's enough to make me cry.  Thirty years ago my parents moved from NY to VA with little tyke me in order to escape the high tax hellhole that is NY.  Now, the high-tax hellhole is being brought to us courtesy of scumsucking assholes fleeing states they have already left, like a plague of fucking locusts.  I'd post snipers along the Potomoc if I could.

 

My state is circling the bowl.

475 is it?

a lot of other AG's declined to appeal. Apparently Cuccinelli thought the anti-sodomy law was worth fighting for.

--ace

I believe this was a law overturned by the state court so I believe it was his duty as AG to defend it.

476 I'm telling you Christy made a deal with Booker

477 464
Yeah McAdams, and he lost by a couple of fucking points. With no money.

Keep it up geniuses, your side of the party clearly can pick the winners:

GHWB, Dole, GWB (first losing popular vote), McCain and Romney!!!!

Yay!!!! Genius fucking election strategies right there. Posted by: prescient11

So you think Republicans would do better at the ballot box if they pushed the issues Cuccinelli did.  That when Republicans lose, it's because voters are sitting out the election because the GOP candidate doesn't talk enough about abortion, birth control, and sodomy? 

Because that's what we're discussing here, nobody is saying Cuccinelli lost because he was too strident on tax policy or that his opposition to ObamaCare was too great.

The SoCon retards keep threatening to leave, what are they waiting for?  They're costing us far more votes than they're bringing in.

478

Ace,

 

You are being dishonest.  Whatever the fuck.  You tell me how many people EVER were prosecuted for that sodomy law.

 

Oh, straw man you say.  And you assume I am pro antisodomy law.  Left much?

 

Blowjobs are the best.  It's tough to have an argument when your first statement is someone is dishonest rather than actually looking at the substance.

 

But stopping gay sex clearly was his main priority, eh?  McAuliffe, is that you?

 

He's a such wacko bird.

479 this is why I say this is a dishonest conversation: Because, among all the people swearing on a Bible (which I don't think they should do when they're lying) that they would never THINK to ban birth control, you'll occasionally find the person who hasn't realized that lying is a better strategy, and who then admits "Yes, that's what we're in favor of, that's exactly what we want."


I believe it was to ban post-conception birth control.  I don't think that's unreasonable.

480 Please list the sort of things "Establishment" Republicans did to torpedo Cuccinelli? Bill Bolling would have been the "Establishment" candidate. He lost because the party changed from a primary to a convention. He then held out for months that he might run as an independent, and talked trash about Cuccinelli and the Tea Party, and never endorsed Cuccinelli. Sitting Republican LT Governor fails to endorse the Republican candidate for Governor. Good enough for you?

481 Barone, in the sidebar, states the shutdown had little or no effect on the election.

482 So why is it okay for the GOP-E to sacrifice an election if it means a guy in their own Party that they don't like doesn't get elected...but it's bad if the Tea Partiers and other conservatives were to decide to do the same thing? Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 06, 2013 12:14 PM (YYJjz) Because they know better than us. SoCons are the Blacks of the GOP. How dare they expect results. The Blacks just settle for slogans damnit!

483 "And as far as Obamacare: While many of us predicted Obamacare would be bad, I don't think many of us predicted it would be this bad this quickly.". The GOP didn't believe that Obamacare would fail because they don't believe in limited government. They just believe that they should be the bossman with the whip.

484 Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 12:09 PM (/FnUH) I could actually see a world where an AG just wants as many tools in their toolbox as possible to stack up against a defendant to get a plea. Is stacking sodomy on top of child molestation gratuitous? Perhaps, but it's also a bargaining chip. So was everything they stacked against Ariel Castro to get to the death penalty to give them some leverage to get a plea. Is that what Cuccinelli was doing? Eh, I'm uncertain, but it's certainly plausible, probable even.

485

I believe it was to ban post-conception birth control. I don't think that's unreasonable.

 

 

 

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 06, 2013 12:17 PM (TpXEI)

 

 

--------

 

 

Shh.   He's rolling.

486 Unenforced law makes a mockery of the system.  Selectively enforced law is an egregious violation of equal protection and alienates the populace.

Unenforced law should be repealed.  Selectively enforced law should be repealed or enforced uniformly.

487 469 I also blame the Fi-cons and libertarians who were so stupid that they wasted their vote on that fraud Sarvis instead of trying to beat McCauliffe.

Posted by: Iblis at November 06, 2013 12:14 PM (9221z)

 

I guarantee you that Sarvis drew more votes from McAuliffe than Cuccinelli.  It was a way for supposedly "principled" leftists, the kind of people who'd write that Mother Jones article slamming McAuliffe, to feel better about themselves by not voting for McAuliffe.  They were happy to do this because they figured Cuccinelli was going to lose anyway.

488

Oh McAdams, you think KC "pushed these issues".

 

Are you fucking joking?  He didn't say one fucking thing about them.

 

All you are doing is parroting dem attack ads.

 

And of course, you didn't answer the fucking question.  Because you have no answer.

 

We've been running milk toast candidates for how fucking long.  AND LOSING EVERY TIME.

 

See a pattern?

489

A couple of points:

 

If polls that are conducted by :  NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, New York Times, or Washington Post:  show a significant lead for the democrats in the weeks prior to election it is that way only because they want to discourage financial or other support for the republican candidate.

 

Those pollsters know who to call, they've been calling the numbers for ages and they know which number is likely to get the preference they are looking for.  If you need to show more support for the Dem, pick random phone numbers from your list of numbers that in the past showed support for the Dem.

 

Second:  The GOP establishment has given up on small government and traditional conservative principles such as being pro-life, pro traditional marriage, anti-illegal immigration, small government.

 

They don't believe they can win by being those things, hence the GOP establishment candidates becoming more and more liberal.  So when a poll shows a conservative candidate in trouble, or CNN or some other liberal news broadcast (did anyone notice CNN was the news station of choice at Christie HQ?) runs a scathing personal attack on the tea party candidate, the GOP establishment folds, quickly.

 

Is it because they now side with the liberals on those issues?  You might say no, but in fact, yes, they do, as they have given up fighting against them.

490 Pete, yes it was PWC that saved him last time.  I've known David for years through Loudoun volunteering--he's not my rep (I have LeMunyon, who won comfortably against a generic D who did no campaigning), but I count him a friend and proudly so.

491 479 Please list the sort of things "Establishment" Republicans did to torpedo Cuccinelli? Bill Bolling would have been the "Establishment" candidate. He lost because the party changed from a primary to a convention. He then held out for months that he might run as an independent, and talked trash about Cuccinelli and the Tea Party, and never endorsed Cuccinelli. Sitting Republican LT Governor fails to endorse the Republican candidate for Governor. Good enough for you? As I mentioned before Eric Cantor's ex-staff worked for McCauliffe. Other Republican mayors and legislators actually endorsed McCauliffe over Cooch.

492 >>>u are being dishonest. Whatever the fuck. You tell me how many people EVER were prosecuted for that sodomy law.

so here we go:  Here we have a guy doing just what I said he would do.  He first claims "No one is prosecuted under these laws anyhow," then agitates to bring the law back.

Why?  Who knows.  I guess he just wants it on the books that he's a criminal when he gets a blowjob, because that will teach the left a lesson or something.

493 332 Cucc was the same person that won a Statewide election four years previously. He won a state wide primary in a state with a Republican governor and supermajority in the State house. Why would he need to go to a candidate school to learn how to win an election in VA? There were other forces in play other than the candidate and his strategy that were the cause of his defeat. Posted by: polynikes at November 06, 2013 11:41 AM (m2CN7) 1. He was the third race on the ballot. A Republican running for Attorney General, an office that the GOP won in 2001 and 2005 even as Democrats won the Governor's office. 2. There was no primary, it was a convention. Obenshain, who looks like he will win the AG office by 500 votes, would have won a statewide primary for the office, but Jackson would have never won a primary for Lt Gov. 3. Candidate school is important in Virginia. While Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson are/were from Virginia, they are not popular at all in Virginia. Thus, candidates that believe in "Magic Vaginas" and "Satan raping yoga practitioners" comes off pretty creepy to everyone as a whole even though the 3-4 thousand that participated in the convention thought it was inspiring.

494 It may have been his job to defend but he paid a political price for doing so, though the amount may be disputed. It is too nuanced to explain why he supported the law. As they say if you're explaining, you're losing. He may have been right and correct. I don't know enough about it. But he paid a price for doing it.

495

What you want, actually, though you are not MAN enough to admit, is an official state ban on sodomy. You want it, just to have that on the state's list of forbiddances. Why you want that, I cannot guess; it seems fucking stupid to me.

 

Calling out someone's manhood on the internet.   Kudos ace. 

496 So you think Republicans would do better at the ballot box if they pushed the issues Cuccinelli did.

He didn't campaign on those issues.  He had a record and he didn't respond to any of McAwful's allegations.

Most of what he campaigned on was small government stuff.

497 RINO mouthpiece declares that RINOs & their mouthpieces are innocent in their heart of hearts.

/Levin speak

498 You know its the same dynamic with Steve Lonegan. Christie hated him, and did everything he could to sabotage him. Then the GOP Establishment let Booker & his imaginary friends outspend him 10-1. Booker was totally beatable too.

I wasn't aware that the Booker (or  McAuliffe) campaign needed permission from "the GOP Establishment" to spend money.

Lonegan lost by 10 fucking points.  That's not a close race where a couple million dollars more would've turned the tables.

Some of you really do need to dispense with the tinfoil bullshit.  Do you really believe that "the GOP Establishment" is so all-powerful that they dictate who wins or loses, with the actual candidate bearing no responsibility at all for his own fundraising and campaignin?

499 Is that what Cuccinelli was doing? Eh, I'm uncertain, but it's certainly plausible, probable even. I’m not going to say “We want to make what you’re doing illegal, but we promise not to charge you with it” is a losing strategy (progressives have been running on it for years—see no primary enforcement of seat belt laws for starters), but it’s a damn tough sell without media assistance.

500 if cuccinelli wanted a new law to forbid sex with a child --not sure why; VA already has one -- he could have introduced that law. Instead, he fought for a blanket reinstatement of a law banning ALL sodomy, oral as well the dirty one, gay or straight. Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 12:09 PM (/FnUH) Except, of course, AG's don't introduce laws.

501 probably. But who would come? And anyone who came would be attacked by the press and Democrats (BIRM) for having needed to go to school to learn how to "Talk Normal." Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 11:33 AM (/FnUH) hehe no kidding

502 SoCons are the Blacks of the GOP. How dare they expect results. The Blacks just settle for slogans damnit!

Posted by: Iblis at November 06, 2013 12:18 PM (9221z)

--------------

And so-cons, like their AA counterparts, tend to turn out upwards of 80 - 90% for "their" party.  Your analogy may be pretty accurate there.

503

so here we go: Here we have a guy doing just what I said he would do. He first claims "No one is prosecuted under these laws anyhow," then agitates to bring the law back.

 

 

Why? Who knows. I guess he just wants it on the books that he's a criminal when he gets a blowjob, because that will teach the left a lesson or something.

 

 

----------------

 

He said no such  thing.  Point out where he  "agitates"  to bring the law back.  You have a lot of nerve complaining  about dishonest argumentation.   All you've  done in this  thread is  put words   in our mouths.

504 >>>cond: The GOP establishment has given up on small government and traditional conservative principles such as being pro-life, pro traditional marriage, anti-illegal immigration, small government.

They don't believe they can win by being those things, hence the GOP establishment candidates becoming more and more liberal.

...

I would say that the GOP believes it can win on some formulations of these positions but not others.  Pro-life, fine.  Pro-life including in cases of rape?  No.  Pro-life including a ban on conventional birth control?  No.

The pro-life cause is already a losing issue (barely losing, but still losing).  What the Establishment gets wigged out about is turning a 45-55 issue (which people can sort of ignore, as they're used to the GOP being pro-life) into a 20-80 loser or 10-90 loser (as in the case of "no abortion, not even in the case of forcible rape").

Purity has its costs, guys.

505 "You can argue that Cucc was a so-con warrior who just tried to hide his so-con warrior nature by running away from past so-con warrior positions.

But you can't argue that Cucc campaigned in 2013 as a so-con warrior. Because that did not happen."

You can't claim that Obama campaigned as a socialist.  In fact, he uses Republican ideas!  Why do you hate him?  Is it because of his skin color?

506 I want my ampersand back. If you are not going to post it, please return it to me forthwith.

507 You keep putting words in people's mouths that they did not say. Or, even worse, when they've said the exact opposite. You keep ascribing them the most vile intentions that they do not have. You aren't arguing in good faith.

508

Is it stupid that large swaths of the electorate votes on imbecilic things like sodomy laws, birth control, etc, that a governor is going to be able to do very little about in any case?  You bet (looking right at you, you useless empty-headed single women). 

 

But you go to the polls with the electorate you have.  Find ways to fool these fucking idiots, for crissakes!!  Simply plowing into their prejudices full speed ahead isn't working, is it? 

509 McAuilffe internal polling never had his lead at more than 4 points, except during shutdown -- Greg Sargent

510

@481 - "Because they know better than us. SoCons are the Blacks of the GOP. How dare they expect results. The Blacks just settle for slogans damnit!"

 

Notice, I didn't say "SoCons," I said "Tea Partiers and other conservatives."

 

Let's face it - the GOP-E wing isn't specifically against SoCons, it's against conservatives in general.

 

It's time to face facts - genuine fiscal conservatives aren't exactly welcome in the GOP, either.  After all, when the Party tries its level best to run from people advocating fiscal responsibility, rolling back the welfare state, etc., that's not a fiscally conservative Party.

 

The GOP is the party of "big business," which is NOT the same thing as saying it is fiscally conservative.  Indeed, big business often LIKES fiscal liberalism, since it means more corporate welfare, government contracts ffrom increased spending, preferential treatment that aids them against the competition, bailouts with taxpayer monies, etc.  The Chambre of Commerce types are just as likely to backstab a genuinely serious fiscal conservative as they are a SoCon.  That's because much of big business, like much of the GOP-E, is NOT ONTHE SIDE OF CONSERVATIVES OF *ANY* STRIPE.

511
< 3% of the vote.

512 Mcadams. I can promise you I will not support a politician who is not pro life. I'm sure I'm not the only one. That does not mean that I will just support anyone who claims to be pro life. It does not mean I will support someone who wants to enforce sodomy laws. It does not mean I will support a pro lifer over a fiscal conservative. It simply means exactly what I say. It is a minimum qualification for any politician to get my support. It is that important to me. And it is a proxy issue for other things. Frankly I suspect a politicians fiscal conservativeness if they aren't pro life.

513

394 Republican Supermajority in the Virginia Legislature  :

 Welcome Governor Terry!

...And good luck chump!

 

Uh, dude, with Northam to break ties we have a majority in the Senate. 

Can you say gridlock? 

514 What you want, actually, though you are not MAN enough to admit, is an official state ban on sodomy. You want it, just to have that on the state's list of forbiddances. Why you want that, I cannot guess; it seems fucking stupid to me.

No, I refuse to accept the categorization by the left that Cuccinelli was trying to ban homosexuality.

I tend to believe his explanation.  I have a hard time believing anybody could think they could secretly ban homosexuality and birth control pills by passing a law and that there would be no consequences, even if those were his goals. 

I tend to believe that people who spend 40 million dollars can make the other guy look bad based on his record.

515 >>>He said no such thing. Point out where he "agitates" to bring the law back. You have a lot of nerve complaining about dishonest argumentation. All you've done in this thread is put words in our mouths.

when someone defends and justifies an attempt to bring back anti-sodomy laws, I sort of infer that that person is in favor of anti-sodomy laws.

See, if they weren't in favor of anti-sodomy laws, they'd just agree, and say "yeah, he shouldn't have fought to bring back anti-sodomy laws."

God I'm so dishonest.  I'm as dishonest as all those people who got the crazy idea that Cuccinelli just might be anti-sodomy.

We're all liars, EoJ.  See, we Liars look at someone's positions and actions and divine from positions and actions their actual beliefs and intents.

Now I see that this is considered "Dishonest Leftist Thinking."  Funny, it wasn't so considered a few days ago, and if Chris Christie fails to be sufficiently hostile to gun control, it also won't be Dishonest Leftist Thinking to call him a "gun grabber."

But we're in Humpty Dumpty land now.  Not only do words mean whatever you want them to mean, so do filings to federal courts and bills that candidates cosponsored.

516 Sitting Republican LT Governor fails to endorse the Republican candidate for Governor.

Good enough for you? Posted by: blaster

No, that's not good enough for me.  Did he endorse Cuccinelli's opponent? 

Do you really think that's why Cuccinelli lost, because his opponent in the primary didn't endorse?  How many votes did that really sway, a LT. Governor not endorsing Cuccinelli (but the Governor did endorse)?

It's petty, but that happens all the time in politics when people lose in an ugly campaign.

These sort of things happen in every campaign, someone gets their nose bent out of joint and doesn't give 110% to a candidate.   I can guarantee you had Bolling won the nomination, a few Tea Party groups would not have endorsed him or gone out the way to fundraise for him.  That's not the same as torpedoing or blaming the entire election loss on the "Establishment".

517 Grid lock is good. AG is good. Play the long game

518 >>>The GOP is the party of "big business," which is NOT the same thing as saying it is fiscally conservative. Indeed, big business often LIKES fiscal liberalism, since it means more corporate welfare, government contracts ffrom increased spending, preferential treatment that aids them against the competition, bailouts with taxpayer monies, etc. The Chambre of Commerce types are just as likely to backstab a genuinely serious fiscal conservative as they are a SoCon. That's because much of big business, like much of the GOP-E, is NOT ONTHE SIDE OF CONSERVATIVES OF *ANY* STRIPE.


The GOP is one of the 2 parties of big business. The Dems are very much pro big business as well.

519 I think about 2 million dollars worth of Reince's play money used for ads pointing out McCauliffe's criminality would have covered a < 3% spread nicely.

520

yes, gridlock with Northam the new tiebreaker.

 

And gridlock is fine with me, as it's better than TMac Unbound.

521 The SoCon retards keep threatening to leave, what are they waiting for? They're costing us far more votes than they're bringing in.
Posted by: McAdams

Really? 
2012  Presidential :  Obama 50.8%  Romney 47.8%
2013 Governors race: McAulliffe   48.0$  Cuccinelli   45.5%

And McDonnell was the Governor during both races, right?

522

Oh, let me clarify, in case it was confusing.

 

How many "consenting adults" were ever prosecuted under that law??

 

I'll wait, I'm hourly.

 

Oh, google doesn't help there??

 

We can debate whether the law should be there or not.  A person can be ideally against the death penalty but as AG argue for it.  B/c it's a good tool for prosecutors.  Given the Supreme Court's ruling in the Texas case he clearly had a reason to go against the ban's removal that did not involve consenting adults.

 

But you know, fuck it, just don't give him any support.  It was such a loser.  Predicting the future is hard.  These dem attack ads are soooooo convincing.

Let's move Romney to VA and run him again...

523 Purity has its costs, guys. Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 12:23 PM (/FnUH) But purity wasn't an issue in this race, Ace. Its like Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus has argued, the Establishment prefers cronyism to conservatism.

524 @520 The SoCon retards keep threatening to leave, what
are they waiting for? They're costing us far more votes than they're bringing in.

wow.

time for a long walk.

525 >>>No, I refuse to accept the categorization by the left that Cuccinelli was trying to ban homosexuality.

I tend to believe his explanation.

...

I didn't say he was trying to ban homosexuality.  That is too cramped.

he was attempting to ban all sodomy, whether homosexual or heterosexual.  He was equal opportunity on the point.

But again, we're in Humpty Dumpty Land now, so when a candidate attempts to bring back a struck-down law forbidding all sodomy, gay or straight, apparently no one is supposed to notice that that law forbids all sodomy, gay or straight.

 Apparently we're supposed to accept that criminal statutes are of an advisory nature only in some cases.  Or that the criminal code should be read, in some cases, as merely "gesturing" to traditional morality.

This is unbelievable.  If Obama passed a law forbidding guns, but promised "Oh I won't enforce this, this is just to keep some criminals in jail," I have a feeling some of you would say "But the law itself bans guns; what the fuck kind of absurd spin is this?"

But when Cuccinelli tries to re-ban sodomy, everyone's like, "Oh, it makes perfect sense that he's trying re-ban a thing he has no intention of banning at all.  He just wants it on the books, for some odd reason."

526 < 3%

527 But here's where I don't buy the rote, kneejerk Stabbed Us In The Back conspiracy theories:

Why are obvious problems now 'conspiracies?'

I thought the whole plan was to 'Just win.' 'Win Uber Alles.'  Is that not the case anymore?

If the whole grand scheme of the GOP is to JUST WIN, then what excuse is there for not supporting the candidate 100%?

"Win when we feel like it," is that the new plan?

That the RNC did not back Cuccinelli in an off-year election with only a handful of races to spend money on, it's not plausible to claim the GOP was being judicious.

Further, the idea that no one could see the disaster that is O-care  - Sorry, I just don't have the vocabulary to describe how lame that excuse is.

528 The SoCon retards keep threatening to leave, what
are they waiting for? They're costing us far more votes than they're
bringing in.


Posted by: McAdams

-----------


Wait a minute.

Aren't you the same guy that was accusing the so-cons of not coming out for Romney in large enough numbers?  I could swear you brought that up the other day.

So which do you want?  Them leaving, or them exceeding their already 72% plus support for R candidates?

529 Posted by: McAdams at November 06, 2013 11:09 AM (CX5il)"

So the lesson is that there is not place for anybody who believes in plain vanilla Catholicism in American politics any more. Thank you. That is good to know.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole

If you want to translate those views directly into public policy, then yes, you have no place in the GOP.

What's the Catholic Church's stance on capital punishment again?  How would you feel if every Catholic politicians promised to uphold the catholic Church's teaching on the death penalty and gave clemency to every murderer on death row?

530

Ace - So you think Cuccinelli wanted to round up gays for consensual sex and throw them in the klink?

 

That's tinfoil hat country there, son.

531 We can debate whether the law should be there or not. A person can be ideally against the death penalty but as AG argue for it.

Good luck trying to explain that in a campaign ad without immediately being labelled a flip-flopper.

532 Meanwhile Democrats are enjoying this immensely. Theyre sayin "Oh PLEASE don't learn from this. Or, perhaps preferably, learn exactly the wrong lesson." Srsly... What do you think dems are hoping you'll take away this morning: 1. Teahadis are poison in purple state general elections! Moar Chris Christies! 2. Naw, it was Sarvis, Bolling, the Federal teat, the weather, the betrayal by establishment Republicans. What we really need is MOAR Cuccinellys eleventy! Hint: Which type of candidate is easier for a dem to run against?

533

Posted by: McAdams at November 06, 2013 12:27 PM (CX5il)

 

once is a coincidence.  Twice is questionable.   Three  times confirms it as a fact.

 

Cuccinelli

Joe Miller

Cristine ODonnell

534 Mcadams. I think you are fooling yourself if you think the socons are costing more votes than bringing in. I won't dispute they cost votes but they bring votes in as well. Large numbers. Frankly I've never understood why we can't all be under the same tent.

535 Do you really think that's why Cuccinelli lost, because his opponent in the primary didn't endorse? How many votes did that really sway, a LT. Governor not endorsing Cuccinelli (but the Governor did endorse)? It's petty, but that happens all the time in politics when people lose in an ugly campaign. These sort of things happen in every campaign, someone gets their nose bent out of joint and doesn't give 110% to a candidate. I can guarantee you had Bolling won the nomination, a few Tea Party groups would not have endorsed him or gone out the way to fundraise for him. That's not the same as torpedoing or blaming the entire election loss on the "Establishment". Posted by: McAdams at November 06, 2013 12:27 PM (CX5il) I think that it is the main reason - I have been saying that the problem in this race was on the Republican side. Did you read what I wrote here? Bolling did not merely refuse to endorse, he actively talked down Cuccinelli, and held out the possibility of an Independent campaign for Governor for a long time. That uncertainty helped to lock up in-state donor wallets, and the failure to secure that money by the Cuccinelli campaign led to less follow on money from the national party and soft money groups. I bet you are right that there are Tea Party people who would have said they won't back Bolling if there had been a primary, and he had won. But I don't believe for a minute that Cuccinelli would have been among them.

536

@ 528 - "If you want to translate those views directly into public policy, then yes, you have no place in the GOP."

 

There is no place in the GOP for people who want to translate their views directly into public policy, if those people are atheists, agnostics, Deists, Buddhists, Hindus, or Jediists.

537 Frankly I've never understood why we can't all be under the same tent. Because its one thing to give lip service to principles, its another to try to live up to them.

538 LESSON 2 - dealing with the media Don't answer quickly, even if you could. Why not just do as Obama does, and simply resist taking questions from media people?

539 What's the Catholic Church's stance on capital punishment again? How would you feel if every Catholic politicians promised to uphold the catholic Church's teaching on the death penalty and gave clemency to every murderer on death row? Posted by: McAdams at November 06, 2013 12:32 PM (CX5il)

The Church's position is no death penalty when life without possibility of parole is an option.

It is not anti-death penalty in all cases.

540 Apparently no one else is going to say this, so...duty calls.

The Cooch sodomy business isn't a social-con thing. He's a prosecutor. Every prosecutor's dearest desire is that every single human behavior be outlawed, preferably by three or ten or fifty stackable laws, so when he and his buddies have decided (they Just Know) who's a Bad Guy, they can really fuck that fucker up good and forever--or not.

It's not important that what the scummy prosecutorial mind of the Cooch latched onto was a blow-job/buttfuck law. He doesn't give a shit. He, like Christie, wants ALL LAWS. Then his class can grab-bag them at their sovereign discretion to fuck up losers.

What are his defenders saying? "He was just trying to get baby-rapers, not outlaw rim jobs you dumbshit. It's only for Bad Guys." They're not wrong really, and they're not lying.

They're shitty people.

541 once is a coincidence. Twice is questionable. Three times confirms it as a fact.

Cuccinelli
Joe Miller
Cristine ODonnell Posted by: polynikes

George H W Bush
Bob Dole
John McCain
Mitt Romney

542 "Be self aware" and "have responsibility for your actions" are apparently RINO Establishment BS ideas.

543

@ 532 - "once is a coincidence. Twice is questionable. Three times confirms it as a fact.

Cuccinelli
Joe Miller
Cristine ODonnell"

 

 

Frankly, I'd be all for the Tea Partiers and other conservatives throwing the 2014 election, if it means waking the GOP-E up from their delusions of self-sufficiency.

544 >>>ce - So you think Cuccinelli wanted to round up gays for consensual sex and throw them in the klink?

That's tinfoil hat country there, son.

...

I presume laws are on the books to be enforced.  Do you support criminalizing things that you don't think should be crimes?  What is the criminal code, if not a list of crimes?

You want it both ways: You are fighting tooth and nail for the proposition that the state should have an official (Criminal Code!) position on sodomy, but also that no one should infer anything about your desire to have a crime against sodomy.

You want the law on the books, but apparently you've got your fingers crossed behind your back so you can say "I don't really mean this."

Okay, if you don't really mean it, why do you want it in the criminal code?

As a "gesture" to your traditionalist beliefs? Is that the place for "gestures" to traditionalist beliefs, a criminal code, making some conduct punishable by jail time?

545 If the whole grand scheme of the GOP is to JUST WIN, then what excuse is there for not supporting the candidate 100%?

Every dollar spent today is one less dollar they have to spend tomorrow.

Until the very last minute all indications were that Cuccinelli was a lost cause.

Note the DNC didn't have to spend shit supporting McAsshole.  Why?  He raised a lot of money.  Cuccinelli didn't, and that failure is on him and him alone.

If a candidate needs his hand held by the RNC, RGA, etc to any chance at all, that is a bad candidate.  By almost all accounts, Cuccinelli wasn't a good candidate and didn't run a good campaign.

546 Good post, Ace. I never really thought VA was a red state at least recently), so it does come as a surprise it was so close.

547

Ace - the proof, ultimately, is in the pudding.

 

Can you point to examples of Cuccinelli or others in VA using the law to go after gays for consensual sex?

 

If not, then really, all you ultimately have is tinfoil hat wish fulfillment.

548 ace, back to the strawmen. Cuccinelli as AG was obligated to uphold the laws of the Commonwealth. He - as in the Commonwealth - was losing a case because of it. It isn't like he was promoting a law to put teh gays in jail. The attorney general is obligated to uphold the laws of the state. I know in these new enlightened times it is a-okay for AG's to just blow off the law. You keep saying he should have supported a new law, but that isn't what AG's do.

549

This just goes to show that sodomy is popular.

 

Whether in politics or some great amateur Czech porn, ass fucking is where people want to be.

 

 

550 The Church's position is no death penalty when life without possibility of parole is an option. It is not anti-death penalty in all cases. Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 06, 2013 12:35 PM (JpC1K) That's correct. Opposition to Abortion is a matter of doctrine. Opposition to the death penalty is not. I think the argument is along the lines that there are some existential dangers a society may face, and has the right to defend itself, but I forget the nuances.

551 George H W Bush
Bob Dole
John McCain
Mitt Romney

Posted by: mrp at November 06, 2013 12:36 PM (HjPtV)

 

I don't understand your point.   The three people I listed won their nomination and were subsequently  shunned by their Republican opponent who refused to endorse them and in the case of Miller,  ran against him.    I have  not seen the opposite occur.   

552 Wait a minute.

Aren't you the same guy that was accusing the so-cons of not coming out for Romney in large enough numbers? I could swear you brought that up the other day.

So which do you want? Them leaving, or them exceeding their already 72% plus support for R candidates?
Posted by: mama winger, socon warrior nanny

I'm talking about the "retard" wing of social conservatives that insist on positions like Cuccinelli.  Those are the ones I want to leave. 

I think 90% plus of SoCons are fine with the mainstream positions on abortion and aren't looking to open up fight on things like birth control or sodomy laws.

For those that are spoiling for a fight on those issues, I'd like them to leave and I will take my chances with independent voters instead.

553 >>Until the very last minute all indications were that Cuccinelli was a lost cause.


McAuliffe's own polls had him with a no more than 4 point lead.

554 George H W Bush
Bob Dole
John McCain
Mitt Romney

Posted by: mrp at November 06, 2013 12:36 PM (HjPtV)

Next up, jeb bush. You all think Christie is next up but watch and learn, it's not going to be him.

Probably won't be jeb bush either, learned this morning the GOP is adamantly anti catholic.

555 It's my understanding that Bloomberg dumped an extra $2 million into attack ads the last week of the campaign. Unless he has so much money that he doesn't mind throwing it away on an already done deal, somebody was apparently able to figure out that the race was getting close enough to turn. If his people could notice, why couldn't the GOP?

Which isn't to say that I think lack of GOP funds cost Cuccinelli the race. I think demographics have shifted to the point that I expect DC commuters to determine statewide offices for the foreseeable future. If you think that's not the case though, you need to stop letting the GOP off the hook and instead ask why their money people aren't aware of things that the left's money people are aware of.

556 So Ace did Fat boy Rove slip you some cash? Or what? You don't feel that the RINO'S want to crush the Tea Party?

557 I'm talking about the "retard" wing of social conservatives that insist on positions like Cuccinelli. Those are the ones I want to leave.



Purity?

558 I'm talking about the "retard" wing of social conservatives that insist on positions like Cuccinelli. Those are the ones I want to leave.

-------------




Okay.  Fair enough.  Good thing you aren't king.

559 Oh, some good news from NY of all places http://tinyurl.com/od6ywz6 Of course the Republicans also ran on the Conservative, Independent and Workers Family Party (socialists) lines so take it for what you will.

560 I don't care what happened in Virginia or why. But this, ace?

*****************
yessss... and in poker, you're only supposed to fold or raise. But most people are not good poker players, and so they hedge with in-between stuff, like calls.
***************


Incorrect on so many levels. Go ask your friend steve_in_hb.

Hell, sometimes you call simply because you're getting the right odds to do so.

561 I didn't say he was trying to ban homosexuality. That is too cramped.

he was attempting to ban all sodomy, whether homosexual or heterosexual. He was equal opportunity on the point.

Do you believe that social conservatives want oral and anal sex outlawed?  In which case, how was Cuccinelli planning to organize and enforce this law?  Had he outlined any plans?


This is unbelievable. If Obama passed a law forbidding guns, but promised "Oh I won't enforce this, this is just to keep some criminals in jail," I have a feeling some of you would say "But the law itself bans guns; what the fuck kind of absurd spin is this?"

There are laws in many states about possession of a gun while committing a crime.  Your sentence gets increased.  But why?  Is robbing a liquor store with a knife really better than robbing one with a gun?  Is this an attempt to grab our guns?  2nd Amendment groups don't fight these laws however, and I wouldn't characterize someone who supports them as a 'gun grabber.'

The law by Cuccinelli seems to be intended to be used while prosecuting people for sexual offenses.

562 I like McAdams delusions of power. The only thing you are in a position to purge is your bowels buddy. But, hey, whatever floats your boat, keyboard warrior. Go forth and purge, champ!

563

@ 551 - "I think 90% plus of SoCons are fine with the mainstream positions on abortion and aren't looking to open up fight on things like birth control or sodomy laws."

 

That would be about where I am at, though I would refer to myself as a "movement conservative" since I am solidly conservative on all three "legs" of the conservative tripod.

 

The problem, though, is that when the yahoos start running around blaming "SoCons" indiscriminately, they're essentially tarring what probably amounts to 75% or more of the GOP membership, as well as about half the independents out there.

 

Try as you might, you're not going to win without those people.  Ever.

 

So perhaps scaling back the rhetoric might be in order.

564 Cooch won white women. It wasn't socon issues McAwful was put over by black female government workers. We will never win that

565 Are you sure this law he was filing and Ace is yelling about wasn't just a "baby with the bathwater" deal? Washington state had an anti-sodomy law that was in whole repealed - but that had the effect of "legalizing" bestiality and they soon had a handful of freaks being killed by horse -ing a round. Let's not dwell there- my stomach isn't fit for thinking about that - but the fact they killed the anti-bestiality statute while trying to just kill the anti-sodomy one. Was this perhaps the case? Was the statute killed entire when it could have been trimmed? (excuse the inadvertent pun) Just interjecting the knowledge that there might be other factors that no one really wants to dwell on because there are much bigger ICKS out there than just fat men fucking in a bush.

566

Berserker,

 

I hear you.  There was a link here yesterday (it's still here) to Schlicter's latest article, thanking these young people for slitting their own throats.  It's definitely worth a read.  His tagline to this generation is fast becoming, "now shut up and got fetch me my latte..."

 

Sad, but so true.  These fools don't even realize that they are destroying themselves.

567 Christie has decided to campaign democratic style that comment about him being conservative was hilarious and had everyone at happy hour talking.  But what that tenet, oh yeah, you keep repeating a lie until it's accepted as truth.

568 549 The Church's position is no death penalty when life without possibility of parole is an option.

It is not anti-death penalty in all cases.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 06, 2013 12:35 PM (JpC1K)

That's correct. Opposition to Abortion is a matter of doctrine. Opposition to the death penalty is not. I think the argument is along the lines that there are some existential dangers a society may face, and has the right to defend itself, but I forget the nuances. Posted by: Iblis

No, the modern application of capital punishment in the criminal justice system goes against the Catholic Church's teaching, there's simply no wiggle room on that.  Previous Popes have been very clear.


"Pope John Paul II has declared the Church's near total opposition to the death penalty. In his encyclical "Evangelium Vitae" (The Gospel of Life) issued March 25, 1995 after four years of consultations with the world's Roman Catholic bishops, John Paul II wrote that execution is only appropriate "in cases of absolute necessity, in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Today, however, as a result of steady immprovement in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."

http://tinyurl.com/4hbo7

So if you want to start arguing with Pope's over the Catholic Church's teachings have at it, but I think I'll defer to them.

569

@ 564 - "Are you sure this law he was filing and Ace is yelling about wasn't just a "baby with the bathwater" deal? Washington state had an anti-sodomy law that was in whole repealed - but that had the effect of "legalizing" bestiality and they soon had a handful of freaks being killed by horse -ing a round. Let's not dwell there- my stomach isn't fit for thinking about that - but the fact they killed the anti-bestiality statute while trying to just kill the anti-sodomy one."

 

Hey, you SoCon nutcases just need to get out of other peoples' lives.  If someone wants to get crushed to death balling a horse, what business of yours is it??

 

Now gimme my tax cuts!

570

"Do you believe that social conservatives want oral and anal sex outlawed? In which case, how was Cuccinelli planning to organize and enforce this law?"

 

To save money, conservative purists could combine the anti-sodomy law with the "just enforce existing law" stance on immigration.

 

So when we're kicking in doors in the middle of night to find illegals, if anyone is caught buttfucking, they're hauled in. 

571 I think 90% plus of SoCons are fine with the mainstream positions on abortion

You mean the illogical position that life begins at conception, but it's not really a living thing if it was conceived by rape?

Or are you arguing that 'mainstream' pro-lifers believe that life begins at a magical month point?

572 >>>Was this perhaps the case? Was the statute killed entire when it could have been trimmed? (excuse the inadvertent pun)

the standard response to a law being invalidated is to re-write it in accord with the strictures laid down by the court, to trim it, in other words.

I don't know how you can trim a law that purports to say that blowjobs are illegal.  I suppose the legislature could have said "Sodomy WITH A CHILD" is illegal, and then dared the Courts to strike that down.

Why didn't they?  Look, I think it's obvious: Because they wanted the full anti-sodomy law back on the books.  I know people are arguing against this but when someone avoids a common-sense strategy (such as rewriting the law to say sodomy WITH A CHILD is illegal) and pushes for the thing that got struck down, I can't see any reason for that, except actually being pretty firm on the idea that sodomy ought be a crime in the criminal code.

573 "I'd like them to leave and I will take my chances with independent voters instead."

Yeah go ahead and place the future of the country on people that base their vote on hair or if they'd like to have a beer with someone. Fuck us retards that care about the regression of the country due to culture rot.

574 Yeah Ace I was taught something in OSUT that stuck with me...

one time is coincidence, two a pattern, 3 enemy action....

The GOP powers that be stated quite clearly last night that voting for a Clinton ganger is perfectly reasonable if you don't like the Republican.

Message received.

See you in 2016 NE GOP

Posted by: sven10077 at November 06, 2013 10:47 AM (9jfyN)

 

I was a sigint analyst, with a russian language trailer...

I was taught once is an occurence, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern, four times or more is intelligent action: enemy or otherwise... but the concept is the self-same.

 

Cheers..

575 we be getting alot o dat vote for the dem shiite, yo...jes sayin'...

576 McAuliffe's own polls had him with a no more than 4 point lead.

And non-McAuliffe polls had him up more.

Polls aside, the writing on the wall pointed to a Cuccinelli loss.  The race unexpectedly tightened in the end, but if lack of funding held him back, that's on Cuccinelli for being a shitty fundraiser.

577 but if lack of funding held him back, that's on Cuccinelli for being a shitty fundraiser.

This is ultimately true.  Cuccinelli couldn't be an insurgent candidate and depend upon the Establishment for financial support.

578 < 3% .

Including NoVa/DC.

579

"So when we're kicking in doors in the middle of night to find illegals, if anyone is caught buttfucking, they're hauled in."

 

I like it, that's brilliant!

580 >>>The problem, though, is that when the yahoos start running around blaming "SoCons" indiscriminately, they're essentially tarring what probably amounts to 75% or more of the GOP membership, as well as about half the independents out there.

I don't blame socons indiscriminately, but obviously this crap is coming from socon quarters.  You don't have any non-socons pushing for a bill which may (or may not) put into question the legality of birth control pills, or to get anti-sodomy laws back on the books.

I think what frustrates me is that socons don't understand what the Red Lines are, and get angry at people like me when I try to tell them, "Yeah, as somone who is more RINO than you, I am closer to the center, so I know the center better, and while being against gay marriage won't hurt you too much, being against gay SEX (and thinking it should be criminal) definitely will, and while being against abortion won't hurt you, being against the pill or IUD definitely will."

And I just get told I'm a Liar Who Accepts the Leftist Spin.

581 I'd rather not be governed by people who have no issue with the indiscriminate taking of a life that is 4 months in utero.

582

@ 572 - "Yeah go ahead and place the future of the country on people that base their vote on hair or if they'd like to have a beer with someone. Fuck us retards that care about the regression of the country due to culture rot."

 

The problem with folks like McAdams is that they won't realise what an absolutely idiotic thing it is that they are proposing, until conservatives finally man up and do it. 

583 >>>>Hey, you SoCon nutcases just need to get out of other peoples' lives. If someone wants to get crushed to death balling a horse, what business of yours is it?? Now gimme my tax cuts! Posted by: J. Random FisCon this.

584

"...if lack of funding held him back, that's on Cuccinelli for being a shitty fundraiser."

 

My position is that we should have a national organization of people who hold the same basic political positions as we do.  And that this organization should specialize in fundraising, candidate preparation, technical assistance and get out the vote operations.

 

Someday, we'll put something like this together.

585 You know ace, you're kindof a prominent blogger, why didn't you put your concerns in writing directly to the Cuccinelli campaign if you felt this was such a serious issue?

586 Ace are there really that many people who think sodomy should be illegal. I think you are having an argument with a small though maybe vocal minority.

587 i know most socons are not in favor of this far-to-the-edges stuff.

But here's the problem: Socons do feel the need to defend other socons-- that is, more pragmatic socons do feel the need to defend the less pragmatic ones.

So at what point do the less pragmatic socons get told that this shit is going to blow up their elections?  When I try to tell them, I'm a Lying Liar Who's Also a Leftist Who Hates Christians; and more pragmatically minded socons also do not tell them, "yeah, that's a no-go area, that's a Red Line," because the pragmatically minded ones are too busy defending them and insisting that the less pragmatic ones did nothing wrong.

So how exactly are we to communicate with each other on these points?  I listen to socons all the time on their Red Lines-- things that they will not, under any circumstances, support.  I know most socon Red Lines.

Do socons not care about moderates' Red Lines?

Bear in mind, Cuccinelli did not actually lose my support.  But I knew damn well he would lose most of the middle. Do people not want to know this?

588 Until the very last minute all indications were that Cuccinelli was a lost cause.
...

By almost all accounts, Cuccinelli wasn't a good candidate and didn't run a good campaign.

Posted by: Hollowpoint

If the GOP didn't know it was going to be close they need to fire each and everyone of their consultants. Is that going to happen? No, of course not.

"By almost all accounts", nice.  Appeal to the authority of idiots. "We didn't know, therefore, we're right!" "We're a bunch of idiots. Trust us!"

Sad. Really sad.

589

@ 579 - "I don't blame socons indiscriminately, but obviously this crap is coming from socon quarters. You don't have any non-socons pushing for a bill which may (or may not) put into question the legality of birth control pills, or to get anti-sodomy laws back on the books.

I think what frustrates me is that socons don't understand what the Red Lines are, and get angry at people like me when I try to tell them, "Yeah, as somone who is more RINO than you, I am closer to the center, so I know the center better, and while being against gay marriage won't hurt you too much, being against gay SEX (and thinking it should be criminal) definitely will, and while being against abortion won't hurt you, being against the pill or IUD definitely will."

And I just get told I'm a Liar Who Accepts the Leftist Spin."

 

Well Ace, I genuinely don't believe you are a "liar accepting the leftist spin."  I *do* think you could do a better job on messaging your distinction between "normal SoCons" and "the wacko Socons." 

 

You know how it's bad when a pro-life candidate gets suckered into a from-the-hip statement that makes it sound like he's supporting something he really doesn't?

 

You're kind of falling into the same trap, I think. 

590 Pretty much the only detail anyone needs to know about Cucc's campaign was that he'd grabbed on the "I want to control other people's lady parts" mantra (aka life begins at conception...) and the rest of the election can pretty much be determined by application of recent political history. 

This has nothing to do with my opinions on ProLife, which I am.  Rather it's all about how Democrats can easily take advantage of this ProLife overstep by anyone remotely near a GOP candidate, and use the GOP wants to "control other people's lady parts" playbook to take down most any GOP candidate.  Calls by the Prolife GOP to "Control other people's lady parts" isn't just a non-seller, it's toxic and extremely offensive to a huge segment of the voting population.  It will dominate the political scene when there are numerous other important and more relevant issues -- taxes, Oconomy, excessive regulations, and more... 

The Dem's drag out a bunch of well exercised attacks on the control lady parts crowd and hit that over and over and over.   Whatever slime ball the Dem's have running wins...   The GOP doesn't have access to the media to counter this onslaught, or to redirect the debate to other issues.

Happened in WA state last year with a perfectly fine GOP candidate, also a popular AG.   The Dem's keep pounding "the GOP wants to control other people's lady parts" over and over until that's the only issue and people get fed up with it all, and either stay home or hold their nose and vote for the Ocrat slimeball.  And the WA GOP candidate really never himself with a strong Prolife position...   It was pretty much guilt by association with the "control lady parts" crowd that did him in. 

Time to face it folks, the Prolife (control lady parts) crowd needs to separate their politics from their beliefs and limit their discussions to pragmatically marketable and achievable ProLife political goals, and trust in God (not BIG GOVERNMENT) to sort the rest out. 

591 Once again I have trouble finding the socially liberal fiscal conservative. A few may exist but in my experience those who are socially liberal tend to vote pretty fiscally liberal too ( at least politician wise which is who we should care about)

592 >>>You know ace, you're kindof a prominent blogger, why didn't you put your concerns in writing directly to the Cuccinelli campaign if you felt this was such a serious issue?

for a lot of reasons.  1, I do not criticize Republican candidates in election season, 2, because it's too late to do anything but support and spin, and 3, because like most people I didn't know about this until McAuliffe's deadly ads began running 24/7.

The party skipped a voting primary.  They changed the rules and had their elected officials nominate Cuccinelli.  Had their been a voting primary, this shit would have come out, and people would have been warned.  And to some extent, it could have been countered.

But the VA party short-circuited that process and threw Cuccinelli out there, mostly unvetted.

Yes I know he ran for AG but that is a less prominent position and there is less ad money spent in such things, warning people about someone's history.

To say "Cuccinelli was already vetted" is like saying  Representative has already been vetted when he runs for President.  No, he hasn't, not really, not with the intensity he's about to be vetted.

593 I don't believe akin received a lot of defense from so con leaders. I doubt any prominent so con would be for makin sodomy illegal.

594 So how exactly are we to communicate with each other on these points?

-----------


First, we have to acknowledge that each side has what they deem to be valid arguments.  We can't go around calling people retards and stupid.  For one.

We can't assume that the other position is coming from a place of lying intent.  For two.

We have to respect each other and listen.  For three.

If I have contributed to the breakdown on any of these points, I apologize.

----------------------


"Come now, let us reason together".

595

"Time to face it folks, the Prolife (control lady parts) crowd needs to separate their politics from their beliefs and limit their discussions to pragmatically marketable and achievable ProLife political goals, and trust in God (not BIG GOVERNMENT) to sort the rest out. "

 

Well, no, what really needs to be done is for pro-lifers to find a way to circumvent the MSM information gate and explain to voters what an actually, mainstream pro-life position is, and why it's right.  There are all kinds of liberty arguments out there as to why abortion is not only morally wrong, but also wrong from a "supporting freedom" standpoint.  We need to stop letting the Dems and their controlled media define the terms of the debate.

 

Indeed, that advice pretty much goes for ANY issue, not just abortion.

596 To say "Cuccinelli was already vetted" is like saying Representative has already been vetted when he runs for President Senator. No, he hasn't, not really, not with the intensity he's about to be vetted. Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 01:01 PM (/FnUH) :sigh: Tell the MO resident (who lived in MO-2 no less) about it.

597 "Come now, let us reason together".

Yes Rachel.

598 You mean the illogical position that life begins at conception, but it's not really a living thing if it was conceived by rape?

Or are you arguing that 'mainstream' pro-lifers believe that life begins at a magical month point?
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk

If you believe that life begins at conception, then that means most hormonal based birth control is a form of abortion in your eyes. 

  The "pill" in an abortifacient to most people that believe life begins at conception instead of fertilization.

Are you saying conservatives should push to ban most birth control pills?
I'd like to get your response on the record instead of platitudes.

And FYI, what one believes in morality does not have to tie directly to public policy.  Nobody is saying you can't hold these beliefs.  If you believe most birth control pills are wrong and a form of abortion, fine, don't use them, but you don't have to push a legislative agenda to ban them.

599 467 LESSON 2 - dealing with the media Don't answer quickly, even if you could. Appear "thoughtful" and considered. This delay in answering gives YOU time to think ahead about whether the question is setting up a trap. Use that time to formulate some innocuous deflection that avoids the trap. You can change topics, lapse into the telling of a lengthy story to burn time, etc. Learn how to talk at length about several innocuous topics of local importance. These can be your "go to" deflections when you need to burn up 10 minutes and run out the clock on the reporters allocated time slot with you. You're NOT their only job that day. The more you waste their time on things they can't do a "gotcha" on the itchier they will be to get out of there. Study old tapes of former Albany mayor Erastus Corning. He was a master of wasting reporter's time and running out the clock Posted by: Purp at November 06, 2013 12:14 PM (W9e8l) Lesson 3 When answering a question by a reporter or in a debate, answer the question with a short concise answer. Don't think that because there is a microphone in your face, and no one else is talking that you need to keep rambling on because you are afraid of not getting your full 2 minutes worth. This is where politicians (and others) get into trouble. They think that silence must be filled, and so they keep on with a rambling answer that starts touching on magic vaginas and other stuff. Watch Bush from the 2004 debates. He answered the questions concisely, not rambling. The moderators kept looking at him as if to say, "hey, you still have a minute left", but he just looked at them and said, "that's my answer". Brilliant understanding by Bush on how the press actually operates. Never talk to a reporter "off the record". No such thing. I've been interviewed, and the reporter says "thanks for the interview, the cameraman wants to get some video of us from a distance, is that okay?" I said, "sure". The whole time the reporter is asking me "off the record" questions, he has the microphone in his hand, but in a way that looks like he isn't using it but just holding it casaully. I learned from my time in radio that every microphone is a "hot" microphone and made sure I just gave him the same bullshit answers as I did in the interview. Sadly, lots of politicians never learn this until too late.

600 Posted by: McAdams at November 06, 2013 01:05 PM (CX5il) I think you're confusing "fertilization" for "Implantation." Because for all intents and purposes "fertilization" equals conception.

601 Ace as someone who considers himself among other things a socon. I agree with you that the position that sodomy should be illegal strikes me as extreme, saying things about rape with respect to abortion is dangerous or just idiotic (akin), socon issues will play better in some states over others. Other than that they are a big part of the gop's base and should have a say unless the GOP wants to abandon them. And perhaps the socon wing, which many are also fiscons, would hold their noses a little bit if the more socially liberal members were as fiscally conservative as advertised. Since that tends to not be true, I'm not surprised that they go looking elsewhere even if it may be to their immediate detriment (eg castle/odonell).

602

"And FYI, what one believes in morality does not have to tie directly to public policy. Nobody is saying you can't hold these beliefs. If you believe most birth control pills are wrong and a form of abortion, fine, don't use them, but you don't have to push a legislative agenda to ban them."

 

Ace an I had this discussion yesterday and I believe it's the  position we should be shooting for.

 

Palin did it successfully.  She was unapologetic about her personal beliefs but very clear that they would not influence or interfere with her policy decisions.

 

We need to teach this technique to candidates.

603 1. We are Conservative, we are to couch our arguments in view of the Founding: Declaration, Articles, Federalist Papers, Anti-Federalist documentation, and the Constitution. 2. We have to recognize the strictures placed on our liberty and if/when they were made and if/how they can be reversed. We are for Liberty, not License, for We the People, not the State. If we follow these concepts when we come to blows/yelling, we can certainly come to agreements that are acceptable to most - no matter their backgrounds. How's those kinda things sound?

604 Mcadams, I do believe life begins at conception and that science supports this position. The logical conclusion being anything that any abortion after this is the taking of an innocent life, except to save the mother which would meet the definition of justifiable self defense. However I recognize that this is politically tough to defend. If exceptions need to be made and it seems that they do then its a worthwhile exception though intellectually faulty ( for lack of better phrase), particularly because of the relative rarity of abortions for rape compared to elective abortions. But in general pro lifers should keep moving the conversation to life begins at conception as supported by science.

605 "To say "Cuccinelli was already vetted" is like saying Representative has already been vetted when he runs for President. No, he hasn't, not really, not with the intensity he's about to be vetted."

Well maybe he did start out with a self inflicted disadvantage, but as you said once it was past the convention there wasn't a hell of a lot anybody could do about it. I think Cuccinell campaign did the best they could minimizing the damage. I also think RGA and RNC wrote him off to quick considering there were only two races and one was already in the bag.
Point is we got to work with what we have to work with, and that's going to be some pretty marginal candidates because there are damn few that are ever going to meet the ideal you think we should have.

606 >>>I don't believe akin received a lot of defense from so con leaders. I doubt any prominent so con would be for makin sodomy illegal.

dude, the GOP nominee for governor just filed in April an appeal to federal court to put anti-sodomy laws back on the books.

I don't understand what you can possibly mean by "no prominent socon would be for making sodomy illegal." Cuccinelli just did.  In April.  And that's prominent.

Plus there are a lot of people in this thread saying that was the right move.

Again I think people might want to return to the days of George W. Bush, where you could say, "Hey, we don't enforce these laws anyway, they're just on the books as a 'nod towards traditional morality.'"

Well that was always bullshit-- a law is on the books to compel or forbid conduct, not as a "nod towards traditional morality."  You can't defend a LAW making something a CRIME by saying "We swear, though, we'll never enforce it."

To the extent we did get away with this in the past-- things have changed.  They just have.  There has been a lot of movement on this issue since 2000 and 2004.  I think there's been a preference cascade against the traditionalist right on this issue-- I think previously people were willing to say "yeah yeah, I don't want it really illegal, but I don't mind laws saying it's illegal" who have now decided, "Yeah that was bullshit, consensual sex should not be illegal, even in an unenforced law."

I do think some are still thinking back to 2004 without acknowledging or accepting that stuff which was once a 60-40 winner is now a 40-60 loser (or worse).

607 also RE 603, Roe V. also postulated that specious argument of "viability". That argument of legality is specifically tied to technology - and it kills itself since it holds that a legal person in 2012 would have been a non-person in 1975. That itself is an argument that no one seems to be touching. I think it is both sad and encouraging - eventually due to technology - no one will be murdered for their mother's convenience - they'll just be removed to an artificial womb and adopted.

608 i know most socons are not in favor of this far-to-the-edges stuff.

But here's the problem: Socons do feel the need to defend other socons-- that is, more pragmatic socons do feel the need to defend the less pragmatic ones.

So at what point do the less pragmatic socons get told that this shit is going to blow up their elections? When I try to tell them, I'm a Lying Liar Who's Also a Leftist Who Hates Christians; and more pragmatically minded socons also do not tell them, "yeah, that's a no-go area, that's a Red Line," because the pragmatically minded ones are too busy defending them and insisting that the less pragmatic ones did nothing wrong.

So how exactly are we to communicate with each other on these points? I listen to socons all the time on their Red Lines-- things that they will not, under any circumstances, support. I know most socon Red Lines.

Do socons not care about moderates' Red Lines?

Bear in mind, Cuccinelli did not actually lose my support. But I knew damn well he would lose most of the middle. Do people not want to know this?


Posted by: ace

It's almost like the OJ trial and black people. 

Their immediate knee-jerk reaction is to circle the wagons because they feel persecuted, but they never stop and think how much it undermines them to support a murderer.

I would prefer if Social Conservatives could come up with an agreed upon playbook of "this what we can push and still win elections" but they simply don't seem to want to be adults and have that discussion with the fringe elements of their base.

If more Cuccinellis, Akins, and Mourdoch etc keep happening eventually the conservative movement/GOP is going to simply throw the baby out with the bath water because Social conservatives can't police their own 

Most center-right political parties globally are largely agnostic on these issues, and that will probably be the end result.

609 If you believe that life begins at conception, then that means most hormonal based birth control is a form of abortion in your eyes.

No.  Conception is the moment of creating life. It is the same as fertilization.  You do not understand my position.

The Catholic church opposes birth control for different reasons than believing it is murder.

Are you saying conservatives should push to ban most birth control pills?
I'd like to get your response on the record instead of platitudes.

Conservative should push to ban morning after pills.  Anything that has a fertilized egg contains the essence of what that person will be and should not be destroyed.  Preventing fertilization is not murder.


And FYI, what one believes in morality does not have to tie directly to public policy.

I think equating any murder with personal morality beliefs is a dangerous concept.  It leads to people callously chopping off the heads of babies.

John Forbes Kerry claims to personally revile abortion, even as he supports the most odious of abortion laws as being not his concern.

610 for a lot of reasons. 1, I do not criticize Republican candidates in election season, 2, because it's too late to do anything but support and spin, and 3, because like most people I didn't know about this until McAuliffe's deadly ads began running 24/7. The party skipped a voting primary. They changed the rules and had their elected officials nominate Cuccinelli. Had their been a voting primary, this shit would have come out, and people would have been warned. And to some extent, it could have been countered. But the VA party short-circuited that process and threw Cuccinelli out there, mostly unvetted. Yes I know he ran for AG but that is a less prominent position and there is less ad money spent in such things, warning people about someone's history. To say "Cuccinelli was already vetted" is like saying Representative has already been vetted when he runs for President. No, he hasn't, not really, not with the intensity he's about to be vetted. Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 01:01 PM (/FnUH) Different levels of vetting for different offices. Governor gets much more vetting than mayor of a medium sized city. US Senator gets much more vetting than House of Delegates. That is why primaries are a good thing. Shit that can derail a candidate comes out before the general election, not during the general. It's why Obama wasn't hurt by his associations in 2008 general election because all of that had already been hashed over during the primary.

611 >>>Conservative should push to ban morning after pills. Anything that has a fertilized egg contains the essence of what that person will be and should not be destroyed. Preventing fertilization is not murder.

two widely used methods of birth control -- the "mini-pill," a type of birth control pill with less estrogen but a dose of progesterone, and the IUD -- may sometimes block a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus.

Should they be banned?  You can't keep claiming that the question is not fairly presented -- it IS fairly presented.  This is what happens. 

So what's your position?  Don't dodge it and say "that wouldn't happen;" it does.  (and hence that's why Cuccinelli's bill did not carve out a birth control exception.)

612 So if you want to start arguing with Pope's over the Catholic Church's teachings have at it, but I think I'll defer to them.

Posted by: McAdams at November 06, 2013 12:49 PM (CX5il)

Thanks for making my case for me by quoting the appropriate papal document.

That's basically what I said.

613 two widely used methods of birth control -- the "mini-pill," a type of birth control pill with less estrogen but a dose of progesterone, and the IUD -- may sometimes block a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus.

Should they be banned?


Yes.  I think there are plenty of other methods of pharmaceutical birth control (to say nothing of other methods of birth control).  I don't want to ban pills which stop eggs from dropping. 


So what's your position? Don't dodge it and say "that wouldn't happen;" it does. (and hence that's why Cuccinelli's bill did not carve out a birth control exception.)


Ace, do I really seem like the dodging type?

614 >>>Ace, do I really seem like the dodging type?

most dodge.

Okay, well you answered, and you answered the same way Cuccinelli did.

I can only tell you that while I understand your position's logic (no exceptions), I hope you understand it is politically toxic.

615 Okay, well you answered, and you answered the same way Cuccinelli did.

I can only tell you that while I understand your position's logic (no exceptions), I hope you understand it is politically toxic.

Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 01:33 PM (/FnUH)

I'll concede that we'd be better off if Cuccinelli hadn't pushed for this and instead had gone after late-termers and clinics.  But I can't fault him for it.  I think the better plan is to repeal Roe v. Wade and leave the issue up to the states.  That will be a good place to start.

My fear with a lot of these cases is that if the Republican party abandons the ideal that life begins at conception, it's never going to be picked up again.

616

ace-"Why didn't they? Look, I think it's obvious: Because they wanted the full anti-sodomy law back on the books. I know people are arguing against this but when someone avoids a common-sense strategy (such as rewriting the law to say sodomy WITH A CHILD is illegal) and pushes for the thing that got struck down, I can't see any reason for that, except actually being pretty firm on the idea that sodomy ought be a crime in the criminal code."

Ace, the reason behind this is because of a sort of loophole in the age groups for 'aggravated sexual battery'.  You can look them up, but they basically have language that leaves 16 year olds out of the code.  I believe the 'sodomy law' prosecutions were against sexual predators of girls that age.  Presumably, they have been unable to get the age increased because they don't want to criminalize the 19 year old having butt sex with his 16 year old girlfriend, which then allows for the 45 year old predator to do it as long as he doesn't commit forcible rape in the process.  Something along those lines.

617 I'll concede that we'd be better off if Cuccinelli hadn't pushed for this and instead had gone after late-termers and clinics. But I can't fault him for it. I think the better plan is to repeal Roe v. Wade and leave the issue up to the states. That will be a good place to start. My fear with a lot of these cases is that if the Republican party abandons the ideal that life begins at conception, it's never going to be picked up again. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 06, 2013 01:40 PM (TpXEI) McDonnell and Bolling and Cuccinelli got the clinics. Abortion clinics must meet the same guidelines as other medical clinics now, and PP is pissed because their clinics come nowhere close to that level. The only thing they can do is close them. That is how you go after abortion by treating and regulating it like any other medical procedure. Once it was pointed out that vet clinics were more hygenic than the abortion mills, the public at large was for it. A pill that stops a an fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine wall? That is a step too far.

618 Are you saying conservatives should push to ban most birth control pills?
I'd like to get your response on the record instead of platitudes.

Conservative should push to ban morning after pills. Anything that has a fertilized egg contains the essence of what that person will be and should not be destroyed. Preventing fertilization is not murder.

The pills are the same,  which means by banning "morning after" pills you can ban regular birth control pills.

And when people say "life begins at conception" that's much different than "life begins at fertilization" 

To me it's arguing about how many angels are dancing on the head of a pin, all I know is that in terms of public policy, it's politically toxic to go after birth control and if you're beliefs forbid it, then simply don't partake.

619

And when people say "life begins at conception" that's much different than "life begins at fertilization"

From dictionary.com:

con·cep·tion
[kuhn-sep-shuhn] Show IPA
noun
1.the act of conceiving; the state of being conceived.
2.fertilization; inception of pregnancy.

 

So no, you're wrong.

620 Bevel Lemelisk

I find it funny that you're clueless that the" conception vs fertilization" is a debate at all. If it meant the same exact thing, why is there a debate between the two?

Some birth control methods are considered by certain religious groups to be an abortifacient based on the difference.

I'm not interested in going down that rabbit hole with politicians, but you seem to think it's a good idea for conservatives to engage in the debate of what birth control we should outlaw.

621 I find it funny that you're clueless that the" conception vs fertilization" is a debate at all. If it meant the same exact thing, why is there a debate between the two? The only person I've ever heard mention this 'debate' is you.

622

Looking up conception vs. fertilization at calright2life.org:

By "conception," we in the pro-life movement understand this word as meaning "the union of sperm and ovum." Another word for that same event is "fertilization." Even the U.S. Senate used these two terms synonymously as recently as 1982 in its two-volume report on the Human Life Bill then being debated.

 

The meaning of the word "conception" has been intentionally changed by pro-abortion forces in recent years to refer not to the fertilization of the ovum by the sperm, but instead to the implantation of the blastocyst (the newly developing human at about a week after fertilization) into the wall of the mother's uterus. This change in definition has become so commonplace that it is reflected in standard medical reference books such as OB & GYN Terminology: "Conception is the implantation of the blastocyst. It is not synonymous with fertilization."

 

It's a silly debate and attempt to redefine what the word conception means, although its meaning is clear by the dictionary definition.

 

623

What is all this crap arguing about sodomy and contraception and stuff!?!

 

Are you all oblivious that Obama and his friends passed a law that will actually KILL Americans.  Sure, what's a million or two state sponsored murders of Americans when we can discuss definitions of fertilization.

 

 

Dudes, the U.S. government is throwing tens of millions of people off of their insurance and trying to force them into plans that they won't be able to afford and they won't be able to find doctors or hospitals to treat them.  The U.S. government is incentivizing businesses to reduce the hours of work for their employees, incentivizing them to toss them from their insurance plans, incentivizing them to make it so millions more American's won't even be able to afford vitamins and over the counter medicine.

Don't worry, though, the U.S. government is making sure that you will have free, ample use of contraception and abortion services so that we can MURDER a million innocent babies each year.

And we have to argue about whether or not some Attorney General thinks it would be easier to do his job if some sodomy law didn't have so many exceptions to it? 

Who cares?  It's not as if some crazy law would ever make it past the Supreme Court, they aren't going to approve of something that might deny some person a right to privacy, they have more important laws to approve of, like those that are sure to reduce our population through state sponsored murder.

624 You have to be able to match tactics and the Rs simply can't. A new party that can match tactics is needed. Obama lies, the response must be in kind. If you can't, or won't, get out of the way.

625 "The time to say "We didn't mean that" was in the BILL ITSELF, not self-serving statements made during a campaign.

If anyone on the left attempted this bullshit, you'd call him on it. You'd say "The bill represents your actual position, not these Johnny-Come-Lately disclaimers, made during a tough election."


Posted by: ace at November 06, 2013 11:30 AM (/FnUH)"

Exactly.

No one's mentioned the obvious analogy: "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan, period."

It's all very well for a politician to make a million reassurances and promises about the way a bill will work or be enforced (or not) in the future. But if the legislation itself, in black and white, has certain implications and probable consequences counter to that, all those statements are pretty worthless.

I'm not saying Cucc is a liar like Obama, not at all. But even if a politician isn't lying, once something is law, its implications and consequences are beyond that politician's control. So, Cucc may be sincere in stating he himself would never use or enforce that legislation in scary draconian ways; but he has no power to prevent other politicians in the future from doing so. Good intentions mean nothing when the poison pill-- that potentiality-- is in the legislation itself. It's tremendously foolish to trust that "good" politicians will save us from the *bad* potential consequences of a law.

So, is it so stupid for a non-socon to distrust Cucc's reassurances about his intentions, when we never believed Obama's stated intentions, and now get to say "I told you so"?  Of course, Cucc is not Obama. But they are both politicians.

You say, "it's ridiculous to think Cucc would do something he's explicitly promised he'd never do-- and moreover something so foolish and extreme, politically inconceivable. Anyone who believes he could or would do such things is a hysterical paranoid, or brainwashed by partisan propaganda."

And yet-- weren't those of us who've always been alarmed by Obama, who discerned all the red flags and shouted warnings, mocked in just such terms?

The Obama analogy is instructive, because you get to see the issue from the opposition's perspective-- or a moderate/ swing voter's perspective. It's always easier to "trust" those from your own tribe (or affiliated tribes), so it's easier for conservatives to "trust" other conservatives-- at least the minimal trust involved in taking for granted that a conservative politician is not a crazy extremist who'd do crazy stuff like try to ban contraception or outlaw gay sex. And then there's a small subset of socons who wouldn't mind those things, and approve of those "winks"/ gestures.

The analogy holds for the other side. All the moderate/ centrist Dems trusted that Obama would neverÂ… (litany of things Obama has actually done). They trusted he was basically moderate/ centrist/ pragmatist. And of course there's a subset of leftists who always approved of Obama's Marxist "winks"/ gestures.

All the "smart" people (including all those Republican pundits who voted for him in 200 insisted it was crazy to read Obama as a scary extreme leftist. All those red flags were in our imagination, or just rhetorical gestures. He ran his campaign on: he's a self-avowed bipartisan centrist moderate pragmatist!

So Cucc didn't run an ultra-socon campaign. Well, Obama didn't run an ultra-socialist campaign, either.

Again, I'm NOT saying Cucc is like Obama. Those defending him here are probably right about him; I don't think he's a liar. But let's not be too quick to ridicule non-socons who see alarming red flags there, just as we non-libs saw alarming red flags in Obama.

626 Fuck this shit. Ken Cuccinelli was the first AG in the country to file suit against Obamacare. He fought this law from the beginning and has never waivered  I lost my insurance 3 weeks ago  and face higher premiums, higher co-pays and a higher deductible IF I can figure out how to even get insurance. I've paid for insurance my whole life. I can pay for it myself but I can't get the discounted price without the insurance agreement and the drug companies jack up the prices 1000% w/o it. So I'm looking at potential costs of several thousand dollars a month.

And people on OUR side want to say Ken would outlaw butt secks and birth control? And Chris Christie is the reasonable one?

CHRIS CHRISTIE WAS THE ONLY REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR TO REFUSE TO SIGN ONTO THE OBAMACARE SUIT.

Oh, he said the legal costs would be too high but then he was offered a free ride - and still, would not sign on. I'll take 100 Ken Cuccinellis over 1 700-lb Chris Christie any day. Enjoy! because he'll give you all the ass-fucking you desire.

627

How much money did the RNC waste trying to buy Christie the vote in NJ?  They could have spent that in Virginia, instead they are focused on propping up an Obamneycare supporter, trying to put him on a pedestal and give him the advantage in 2016.  GOP ----- the right wing of the socialist party.

 

Do they not understand that if Christie gets the nomination most of the base will just stay home, the heck if I'm going to vote for a Democrat ---- of which Christie most definitely is (according to his actions - but then again, this blog and other GOP establishment folks are betting we judge him by what he says and not what he does). 

628 I caught a bit of Rush and his establishment bashing dance. This shit has to stop. There are some plain damn facts that Limbaugh continues to contribute to and then blame others. Right or wrong women are not voting for Republicans and the shut down hurt in Virginia. Limbaugh has contributed to both of these problems in big ways. Mr. Personal Responsibility ought to do some soul searching and figure out how to dig himself out of the hole instead of looking for a bail out from the establishment he derides.

629 Sorry Ace. You are wrong about this one. The RNC did sabotage Cuccinelli. The rinos will lose their reelection bids because of it. Not a penny more for the arrogant , self absorbed rinos.