1 Frum for the Win!!!!

2 Textbook example:  California.

All those illegals pouring into CA have made the people and state that much POORER.

3 Frum, the Canadian-Cosmopolitan.
I so long to adopt his beliefs as mine.

4 If low-skilled labor is the key to our future growth, why don't we just cut off public education at the 8th grade? Think of all the money we'll save, too. Dynamic!

5 Yeah, I've noticed that the leaf-blowing is taking a little longer.

6 I'm lovin' this.  2016 will be like stealing candy from a trust fund baby. 

7 "As DrewM. has noted, it's not as if the country wants for poor people. If poor people are the Gateway to National Prosperity, why bother by Browse to Save">training people to have more in-demand skills at all?"

That is so true. All we hear from Democrats is how a gazillion number of Americans are too poor to survive day to day without govt help.

So what's the solution? Import another 30 million peasants from Mexico who will be even poorer.

8 "If you like your country you can keep your country.  Trust us."

9 As Larry Kudrow is keen to account for changes in behavior attributable to a change in policy -- as he insists on the "Magic Asterisk" of dynamic scoring (Frum's term; a fudge factor, a guess)


FUDGE!!!

10 "Gerbil Malodor"-- I'm going to delete that comment. I think it's nasty. In addition, I think you guys fail to recognize how terribly much work the cobs do *gratis.* This site would not exist but for them. It is one thing to disagree with Drew or Gabe. But I am very tired of the frequent personal attacks on people who are working for you, and for me, for free. For free. Comments like this aren't just an attack on me. They're an attack on the site, because the moment this stops being fun for Gabe is the moment he stops putting up the morning headlines thread. The moment this stops being fun for Drew is the moment he stops filling in for me. The moment it stops being fun for any other cob is the moment he stops putting up posts, especially on weekends. I'm delivering a warning here: I do not mind disagreement with the cobs. Or with myself. I disagree with the cobs (and they with me). But this nasty personal attack over mere *disagreement* has got to end. At the end of the day, sorry to say this, but I have far, FAR more need of Gabriel Malor than I do of the commenter calling himself Gerbil Malodor. Gabe puts up a thread everyday when I'm still sleeping; "Gerbil Malodor" does not. Same for drew and the rest of the team. Grow the fuck up and get your head right. This site is not your personal playground for endless venting.

11 I'm still going long of Curb Feeler and Horchata futures.

12 So basically free shit costs money and the more people that get free shit the more it costs. And I did not even go to the London School of Economics to think that up!

13 What about the illegals who have their own businesses, who are married to    citizens, who own their own homes, and thus for decades who already have      been paying self-employment FICA taxes along with income taxes,      unemployment insurance taxes and property taxes?

14 'Let me put this in blackface...'

15 If only we adopted the most advanced DNA research to creating species of lawn turf that grew to exactly 1.75 inches in height then stopped growing we wouldn't be having this discussion. Which is sad. Liberals are only feeling, caring individuals when their lawn needs mowing by cheap labor who they do not have to pay towards their retirement years.

16

Most don't know... but even if you Never pay ANYTHING into the Soc Security System, there is a minimum payment you can receive.

 

So... Juan has been in America, and gets legalized... he'll then bring in Grandma and Grandpa, and Mom, and Dad.... because chain immigrants get head of the line...

 

And even if you think there are ONLY 11 Million illegals here now (I think its at least double, if not close to triple that)... when this thing is passed with its very loose documentation requirments?  The border will be flooded.

17

What about the illegals who have their own businesses, who are married to citizens, who own their own homes, and thusfor decades who already have been paying self-employment FICA taxes along with income taxes, unemployment insurance taxesand property taxes?

 

Those three can stay.

18

All these Big Gubmint ideas and not one word about improving the economy.

 

Well, actually, words   about the economy are all we get.   Really    doing anything to improve it seems beyond their comprehension.

19 "...this 'long term' extends only to the program's next ten years..."

Wait. So Rubio is obfuscating and lying about the Even More Comprehensive POS legislation? Well knock me over with a feather.

20 If Frum's a complete waste of oxygen 99% of the time, it really doesn't do us much good to try and cite him when he appears to be right for a change. Stopped clocks, blind squirrels and acorns, etc., etc., etc.

21 What about the illegals who have their own businesses, who are married to citizens, who own their own homes, and thusfor decades who already have been paying self-employment FICA taxes along with income taxes, unemployment insurance taxesand property taxes? Posted by: The Obvious Elephant in the Room at May 09, 2013 07:59 PM (pmsMR) What about all the Jews in the Baseball Hall of Fame?

22 >>>What about the illegals who have their own businesses, who are married to citizens, An illegal is married to a US citizen and hasn't bothered to get naturalized on that basis? Really?

23

Posted by: The Obvious Elephant in the Room at May 09, 2013 07:59 PM (pmsMR)

 

Hmmm... to pay taxes and own a business at that level... would they not have to have fraudulent documents?  perhaps with a bit of identity theft thrown in???

 

And thus, have commited MULTIPLE felonies?

24 @ 13 Do tell?  Plus if an illegal construction worker currently being paid off the    books and not paying any federal taxes goes on the books, and thereby     receives prevailing wages, he won't be eligible for Medicaid, AFDC or GA.     In that event he'll legally be receiving and paying taxes on far too much wages. 

25

What happens when they don't have to work anymore? What happens when Daddy Government tells them he's gonna provide for them working or not?

 

Every thinking person has come to that conclusion yet our betters and the activists insist that human nature just does not apply to illegals.

 

You will also have to multiply the number of legalised illegals by four or so because you will get a huge influx again with family unification.  Proponents insisting that it will not happen are simply lying, there will be appeals to humanity and anyone who objects will be called a hater. 

26 "Those who claim that bringing in a lot of low-skilled, low-income workers into our social safety net will actually pour money into the safety net ..."

Hi. My name is Ponzi. Damn glad to meet ya'.

27 Sent a comment to Rubio, asking him why he hates the working poor. How does he not understand that "bringing millions into the light" will make the job hunt even more difficult for those legally here, who should be his first concern as their Senator?

28 So Frum wrote something sensible. Kind of hard to overlook all that other nonsense he wrote, i.e. all the "faux conservative progressive mascot whoring himself out for paychecks and pats on the head" stuff.

29 OT; hat link on the outside, did the people writing at the Wrap not see the last film, let us just say Tony Stark's motivation is waning.

30
They are just giving the country away.  Do your best to keep your taxes as low as possible.  Paying more is just the same as throwing it down the toilet.

31

What about the illegals who have their own businesses, who are married to citizens, who own their own homes, and thusfor decades who already have been paying self-employment FICA taxes along with income taxes, unemployment insurance taxesand property taxes?

 

Do you mean  the illegals that waved a big ol' One Finger Salute to our laws?

 

The ones you   yourself  just called "illegals?"

 

The ones who are here   in clear defiance of our laws,  who, if they came into Mexico from here illegally, wouldn't  have a house, or a business, or be able to vote?

32 Frum got something right?Well,miracles happen.

33 @ 24  Wet my back, you might be onto something.  Have we also factored   into the equation the higher wages for all trades -- citizen, green card and   amnestied residents -- that would result if we eliminated the black market   economy for under-the-table illegal labor?

34 2 - All those illegals pouring into CA have made the people and state that much POORER.

...while making the political and limousine-leftyclasses relatively more wealthy (by giving them access to cheap nannies and gardeners) and politically powerful (by importing scads of undocumented Democrats).

Coming soon to a red state near you.

35

Interestingly enough today is "walk out on your fast food job day" or some such shit in St. Louis.

 

"Hundreds showed up to protest" rumors are a few even walked out.

And this begs the point doesn't it? If you're willing to walk because they won't pay you $15 then has the safety net gotten to soft? (FWIW, they want more than I got paid as a research assistant.  Now I got benefits, that's true, but even if you add all those in, maybe I made 17/hour?  MAYBE.)

And I worked fast food for years making less than what's now minimum wage.  I don't feel sorry for them.  But it speaks to ace's point about giving up work and collecting bennies.

36

Frum....the 'Kept Conservative'...finally says something that actually makes sense.

 

Now that we know he's capable of making sense...what is his excuse for all that other bullshit that he spews?

 

37 13 What about the illegals who have their own businesses, who are married to citizens, who own their own homes, and thusfor decades who already have been paying self-employment FICA taxes along with income taxes, unemployment insurance taxesand property taxes? Posted by: The Obvious Elephant in the Room at May 09, 2013 07:59 PM (pmsMR) They are utterly non-existent anywhere but in fantasy.

38 Who's going to maintain all those green shoots Americans won't? Answer me that, anti-Capitalists!

39 "dynamic scoring" = getting laid while coked up

40 How many illegal aliens are also illegal gun owners?  Will Daddy Sawbucks be checking for this bugaboo before or after amnesty?

41

Hank Greenberg.

 

But let me continue.

 

Larry Kudlow is the penultimate "conservative" pundit who is selling us out for "immigration reform".  He is supposed to be knowledgeable in economic and business matters.  Yet he has been beating this "immigration reform"  drum since post election, December 2012, with great regularity.

 

He cites the Reagan  "amnesty" of 1986 as the "right thing for Republicans to do", yet this was a great debacle for the Republican Party, as it has FOREVER removed California from ever voting Republican again.

 

I feel he must have been bribed/threatened or just plain bullied into taking this stance, although he frequently states this is for bringing the Republican Party into the present, making them more popular.

Uh-huh.

 

This will break us, impoverish the lower and middle class, and alienate us further from the government and the rule of law.  Big Victory, Larry.

 

Take a bow.

42 @ 33  Color me xenophobic, but I don't get the jib of your jab. 

43 as if this is worth arguing about.  The donks want to replace the voting class with these outsiders. 

44
There aren't enough school slots or even doctors to accommodate the extra 10 million that will be allowed to come join the new amnestias as family.

You think schools and the medical system are strained now?  hoooweeee.

45 " Heritage's cost estimates are driven not primarily by welfare, but by healthcare."

Obama fixed that. Healthcare cost are taken care of. And if this fix doesn't hold, we can convert to the British model, and if that doesn't work, we can adopt the Cuban model. But whatever. Healthcare costs have been contained, thanks to Obama and his loyal democrats.

46 Imagine if California had stayed red. Just imagine that for a moment. The domino effect. California rots. Ex Californians spread to Oregon, Washington, New Mexico, Nevada, Colorado, Arizona, Utah, Texas. Those states crumble. When Republicans played foolishly with amnesty, failed to defend Prop 187, and ultimately nodded to a gentlemen's agreement for 'safe' districts, they lost the biggest electoral jackpot, and doomed another hundred electoral votes within the next 25 years.

47 Genius, you do realize that we all know it's you responding to yourself, right? Ace? BanHammer?

48

This situation with illegals is not only due to the porous or non-existent border but the demand for cheap labor.  It started with cheap farm labor.  Because it is cheaper to use illegals than to automate.  Farm and building site automation was not only due to safety requirements but that it was cheaper than paying teams of farm laborers.  When farmers only had their family members to help them out with the work it made sense to automate.  This automation was a gift to the world and contributed greatly to world food security and insuring against famine.  Reliance on illegals has stunted this progress.

49 The Open Door lobby thinks we suck and want to replace us.  *spits*

50 Wet my back, you might be onto something.


Easy with the slurs, Tiger.



Have we also factored into the equation the higher wages for all trades --citizen, green card and amnestied residents --that would result if we eliminated the black market economy for under-the-table illegal labor?


How does eliminating the black market economy increase the demand for those skills? Please be specific and show your work.

51 Without getting these people on the books how pray tell will any portion of the costs of providing mandatory emergency room healthcare be funded?

52 37 13 What about the illegals who have their own businesses, who are married to citizens, who own their own homes, and thusfor decades who already have been paying self-employment FICA taxes along with income taxes, unemployment insurance taxesand property taxes? Posted by: The Obvious Elephant in the Room at May 09, 2013 07:59 PM (pmsMR) ------------------ If they have the requisite SSN, FEIN and other accounts necessary to file those taxes, then they wouldn't be "illegal" aliens, they are "resident" aliens. What's it like to not know how this works?

53

BTW,

Kudos to Heritage for this.  I was just telling my wife, I think they're overall a good place, and I'd throw my hat into their ring (if they needed any healthcare policy people )

54 that would result if we eliminated the black market economy for under-the-table illegal labor?

Posted by: Missing Pieces of the Argument

How do you 'eliminate the black market' if you are rewarding the breaking of immigration laws with regularization?  If you reward law-breaking, you increase law-breaking.

Further, what is the incentive for businesses that rely on workers that are outside of the Federal labor and tax laws to suddenly comply?

55 The problem with "dynamic scoring" is that basically what they're saying is "Assume that the economy works the way I think it does. Now does my bill look good?" This was the same problem with Paul Ryan's roadmap, by the way, which liberals correctly pointed out at the time but have apparently (conveniently) forgotten.

56

Posted by: weft cut-loop at May 09, 2013 08:16 PM (YTstp)

 

Especialy with the coming advent of ObamaCare?

57 Wow. I wouldn't have expected such a piece.

58 Ace? BanHammer?


I prefer traceroute.

59 and remember, all these jobs were done by america's population.  What a change that in 20 years, "americans" can no longer accept the indignities of a job that doesn't require college. 

60 My mother was an immigrant, and lived in her aunt's chicken coop when she first came here.  No welfare state. They didn't get shit, family had to provide.

61 Even a broken clock is right twice a day, a blind pig finds an acorn, yada, yada, yada. For being the smartest fuckers in the land (elected folks) how stupid are you? Where oh where has any civilized country had a sieve for immigration laws and survived and prospered? That's right it hasn't.

62 When Republicans played foolishly with amnesty, failed to defend Prop 187, and ultimately nodded to a gentlemen's agreement for 'safe' districts, they lost the biggest electoral jackpot, and doomed another hundred electoral votes within the next 25 years.
************
true dat.
one of bill c's first thing to do was immigrate millions of people into Cali.
wonder what effect that had?

63 Sock puppet off

64

Sandy Koufax.

 

Pretty quaint, making a comment and then patting yourself on the back for it.

 

The hash knows all, tells all, sees all.

 

There will be no end to this.  With no enforcement whatsoever, every loose wheel from the Rio Grande to the Straights of Magellan will be making their way to Uncle Sugar's honey pot of welfare.

 

Sit down, take a load off.  Would you mind mowing the grass once in a while?

 

Gracias!

65 Without getting these people on the books how pray tell will any portion of the costs of providing mandatory emergency roomhealthcare be funded?

It can't and won't with 30 million extra either, it will just get worse.  Because those people will become total net tax receivers and not payers.

All of these things are so obvious if you just think and look around.

66 @ 51  You might be onto something.  Plus shouldn't we get the higher wage    earners among them onto the books so that the Feds also get the revenue of    the tax penalties for them not purchasing the required health insurance under    Obamacare?  And Medicare de facto is being phased out for everyone; soon    it'll pretty much all be private coverage or Medicaid.  So isn't Medicare over    the long haul largely a red herring too?

67
What about the illegals who serve in the military and have ALL their illegal relatives living here in the U.S.?

Are YOU gonna be the one to tell him/her s/he has to go back where they came from?


[that's a strawman from John McCain in 2008, for those of you in Rio Linda]

68

13 Posted by: The Obvious Elephant in the Room at May 09, 2013 07:59 PM (pmsMR)

 

24 Posted by: Red Herrings at May 09, 2013 08:03 PM (pmsMR) 

 

33 Posted by: Missing Pieces of the Argument at May 09, 2013 08:08 PM (pmsMR)

 

51 Posted by: Another Obvious Point You Missed at May 09, 2013 08:14 PM (pmsMR) 

 

-------

 

This idiot doesn't know wtf he's talking about.

Everything he/she/it has said, makes no fucking sense whatsoever.

 

69 Social Security is probably closer to collapse than anyone in government is willing to admit and this is just some futile and pathetic attempt to stave off the collapse. A lot of people are gonna be looking for someone to be held accountable and its not gonna be pretty when the SHTF. You'll know its at hand when the politicians start to leave office before they're voted out.

70 Blessings upon the banhammer.

71

Larry Kudlow is the penultimate "conservative" pundit who is selling us out for "immigration reform".

 

C.J. Burch, Kudlow is not a modern Republican, he is a country club Republican.  Modern Republicans are mostly small business and middle class people.  He is in sync with the small sliver of big business Republicans that the media insists constitutes the whole party.  Little people don't matter to him any more than they do to the Democrats.

72 "At the end of the day, sorry to say this, but I have far, FAR more need of Gabriel Malor than I do of the commenter calling himself Gerbil Malodor. Gabe puts up a thread everyday when I'm still sleeping; "Gerbil Malodor" does not. Same for drew and the rest of the team."

Not defending the sockpuppet slurs on the cobs, but that's a shitty excuse to keep Gabe and DrewM around. Free or not, having those two make post just to have a post isn't helping anyone.

73 Especialy with the coming advent of ObamaCare?

Posted by: Romeo13

Yep, in addition to the estimated $10k of transactional hiring costs for the average worker.

These employers aren't going to start filling out W4s for all of our new golden class, they aren't going to be adhering to the 100's of pages of state and federal OSHA regs, EEOC rules, etc. etc. etc.

We've built up a system that rewards the blackmarket in labor and punishes those that have to comply.

Oh, it is to laugh to think the wondrous new 'Living Wage' laws will be obeyed.

And our guilded class has the temerity to feign ignorance at our high unemployment.

74 Yeah that was some particularly douchetastic trolling. Adios, amigo.

75
(pmsMR)

Is this also the "akin mourdoch angle odonnell" fool?

76 Yeah that was some particularly douchetastic trolling. Adios, amigo. Posted by: Andy at May 09, 2013 08:23 PM (OZPoa) *Hands Andy a beer*

77 *slides Andy a whiskey*

78 I disagree with so much of Frum's recent writing but when he actually does write something good we should applaud it.  One, if he is encouraged he might continue doing it.  Two, since liberals think he is more on their side this will expose them to an argument they may not otherwise see.

79 it's really telling how much the political class hates this country when the cultural costs are not even a factor.  Listen to them, they say we're a nation of immigrants, as if we all didn't arrive here buying into the anglo-saxon western view of teh world, and into American exceptionalism.  No we just plopped here out of nowhere.  Adding 30million new who?  What effect will that have?

We already know that if the 1984 voting bloc was still here, we'd be in zombie reagan's glorious 5th term. and loving it.

80
Are YOU gonna be the one to take away people's Obamacare?

81
Are YOU gonna be the one to to rip up homosexual couples' marriage license?

82

Decaf @ 64

 

I am merely noting how Mr. Kudlow markets himself.  And how he is marketed to us.

 

Beyond the lies, distortion and suppression and control of messaging, the Media is finally, after all, an  illusion.   A powerful illusion at times, but no more than that.

 

TeeVee, Talk Radio, Newspapers, the Internet.  How real is it?

83
This is how Totalitarian..American Stlye Government works.

The "lawmakers" foist this social crap on The People and make it a civil rights or an emotional issue when The People want it off the books.

84

71 I disagree with so much of Frum's recent writing but when he actually does write something good we should applaud it. One, if he is encouraged he might continue doing it.

 

----------

 

Yeah...maybe.

 

But it polishes his value as a 'Kept Conservative', and gives him credence when he stabs us in the back on other issues.

 

85 Are you going to be the one to take away Vichy France's Hitlercare?

86 Understanding Kudlow is simple. He has a great understanding of stocks and the market. But being in the Rich, White part of NY insulates him from the real impact of illegal immigration so his perspective is warped.

87
Are YOU gonna be the one to take away a women's right to choose?

88 Dayummm. If I'd have known free booze was involved, TB3K would be firing like a fuckin' Ma Deuce.

89 this is the way the left's been operating for a century.  Sneak their way into office, immediately go hard core leftist.  Good for the USSR to teach their useful idiots in the west that open border nutcasism is the way to immenantize the escatcheon.

90 The rich want to be richer and for the rest of us to be peons like in Latin America.

91

Clue:  more and more, "Media Conservatives"  will stab us in the back on occasion.

 

Rush has lately been extra-special nice to Marco Rubio.  Why is that?

 

Rubio may be a genuinely nice guy, but he has really screwed the pooch on this deal, primarily to get himself re-elected in Florida.  Any dreams of a national political career are up in smoke, although he may not actually realize that at this moment.

92 Jeanne of the North: "My mother was an immigrant, and lived in her aunt's chicken coop when she first came here. No welfare state. They didn't get shit, family had to provide."

Same here. Not the coop part but in a single-roomed shack in a farm field. Grandmother, mom, and all siblings worked the farm for the sponsoring family for years pretty much as indentured servants until the contract was fulfilled. (And they fled their homeland not for economic benefit but from death in a war-torn, communist-invaded Europe). Only my grandmother was paid. All the kids worked for free (except for minimal food/water as sustenance). It was all legal with zero government assistance but for forced attendance in public schools.

Legalized mass illegal alien immigration/amnesty with our welfare state and concomitant non-assimilation will literally destroy America.

93
I am tired of this f'ing "nation of immigrants" crap too.  EVERY nation on earth is a nation of immigrants except the one of Adam and Eve.

There was a time when we were an expanding land mass country and we needed immigrants and the there is RIGHT FUCKING NOW. 

True double digit unemployment, massive debt and deficits, out of control entitlements and fraud, etc is no damn time to be adding more to unemployment, debt, entitlements and fraud.

94 Yeah...maybe.

But it polishes his value as a 'Kept Conservative', and gives him credence when he stabs us in the back on other issues.

Posted by: wheatie at May 09, 2013 08:28 PM (LxEHG)

 

He will be known  as that no matter what, it's something we have no control over.  I would rather that he did something for the conservative cause every once in a while to justify his nominal status.

95 86, every nation is a nation of the local conquerors.  But the left decided that we must be destroyed.

96 from the sidebar:  about time GOP senators bite Reid back.  The guy is a living embodiment of the "smear anything" brand of donkey politician.  Like that Goon from Maryland, O'malley.

97 Rubio may be a genuinely nice guy, but he has really screwed the pooch on this deal, primarily to get himself re-elected in Florida. Any dreams of a national political career are up in smoke, although he may not actually realize that at this moment.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes more nonsense..... at May 09, 2013 08:32 PM (Md8Uo)

 

I agree, Rubio may have assured his re-election to senate but his presidential aspirations are finished.

98 Rubio has shown himself to be a hump.  There is literally nothing appealing about the I bill as we've been told.  He is Schumer's bitch.

99

I would argue that Kudlow's perspective is not warped or insulated.

 

I think he knows exactly what he is saying and why he is saying it. I'm not quite sure what his motivation is, but I don't think he is some rich, clueless guy.

Just as Rush is not clueless about the popular revulsion to what the Senate is cooking up, yet he is very nice to Rubio. If I were he, I would be polite to Rubio,  but take him to the verbal woodshed.

 

I'll take a stab at this, and say something obvious. Larry Kudlow and Rush Limbaugh and most media types (left or right) are in it......for the money.

 

Controversy has always fed Rush's ratings.  I don't think he is cynically playing everyone, but I think he is being a little too careful here. 

 

Kudlow is not the media juggernaut that Limbaugh is, and needs to have his radio show syndicated, plus his gig on CNBC.  If he stridently and intellectually attacked "immigration reform",  I think he would be out of a broadcast job everywhere as soon as his contracts were up.  People bigger than him have made a decision, and he is merely carrying the verbal water to the Proletariat.  He is allowed to make talk about other economic and investment opinions that differ from the Obama Regime because that is really "not important".

 

"Freedom of speech" in this country is another illusion, unless you have nothing to lose.  My boss's wife is a very opinionated Democrat liberal, and if I were to openly speak my mind  (even politely)  at a company gathering, I think my present career would be over.

100 And lost in all this goodwill for those illegals who work hard (and count me stunned that illegals supposedly do NOT get welfare and other benefits. Where are these writers living?) is the fact that the very first place the illegal population flocks to without any restrictions is your local school district. And then comes federal monies for bilingual Ed with NO incentive to get those kids speaking English. In fact, if they pass a test to go off of your bilingual Ed, you don't get the money anymore. Your entire district starts demanding that more and more things get printed in English and Spanish. More teaching jobs come with the 'biligual preferred' description which is code for 'we can't say this upfront and be legal, but the most gifted teacher ever will not get this job if somebody with a pulse can speak Spanish.' And the district test scores and competency marks sky dive. For everyone, not just the bi-lingual kids. And the excuse is 'well, what do you expect? We are doing the best we can with our multicultural students who are now outnumbering our local population?!' And this wondrous circle continues without end. Until you are graduating ALL of your students at levels that would have been unthinkable just 20-25 years ago. Are there individual successes? Sure, and they are made to sound common in the district literarture. I grew up in, taught in and retired from my local school district which is now a shell of a once decent school system. This incredibly weak and unstable foundation is now to supposed to be the basis for incredible sanity of thought and economic growth. Go ahead and try to show what would happen at the end of an illegal's work life. It's moot. As far as I'm concerned, the war has been fought and we are so busy compassionately surrendering throughout school systems everywhere that we don't even know how much we've lost. Yes, liberal thought and teacher unions are nasty. Add the we-will-always-accept-illegals aspect and I don't see anything worth saving even after you Let It Burn. Don't mean to be a Debbie-downer, but its been tough to watch this on a local level, to have tried to bring common sense thoughts to the table while I was teaching, and continually see the toilet bowl flush winning.

101 yet, you leave out Cali for some reason.

102

"Gerbil Malodor"

 

LOL'ed.

 

103 and again, these illustrious leaders look at population replacement levels of immigration (joined with H1B1 visas) as a purely economic thing.  As if America's history and community is up for sale for some sort of economic gain.  Hey why not just import one of those Chinese cities where they make ipods and a Japanese industrial city. 

this all masks that what the donkeys are doing is importing voters. 

104 Dem Sen. Upchuck Schumer Says HeÂ’s Losing Sleep Over Gay Rights Amendment In Immigration BillÂ… Cry me a river

105

At the turn of the 20th century, German was being taught in Cincinnati public schools, because so many immigrant children only spoke German.

 

But that was one particular city, with a heavy German immigrant population.  Probably was happening to a limited degree in other cities, with varying immigrant populations that long ago.

After the American Civil War, the KKK became strong in the South to suppress a lot of the political activity of the Freedmen.  Once reconstruction was over,  the South reverted, to a degree, to it's previous cultural norms, and the Klan faded.

The Klan resurfaced in the first two decades of the 20th century over....immigration.  It appeared to grow strong all over, in places like Indiana.  There was a massive Klan march in Washington DC post WWI.

To keep domestic tranquility, the Federal Government throttles immigration (legal) back after that, in the 1920's.

 

The Political Elites are gambling that there will not be a vigorous nativist political movement surfacing in the US.  They made the same gamble in the UK and now the UKIP has appeared.  I would not wager how high their popularity will rise.  This immigration reform nonsense may pass and become law, but this will not be over.  This will literally hit people where they live, and will cut across racial and economic lines in this country and really turn people against the ruling parties that brought this on.  But it might take 20-25 years from now to really build that fire.

106 Who needs to attack a coblog when we have jug ears mcfuck stick and his cronies killing off ambassadors, cozying up to terrorists, bowing to sheep herders and selling guns to drug cartels?

107 Mr.PMS. Fitting.

108 iirc, Frum was all over the GOP's last attempt at a cramdown of amnesty in 2006. He's dead wrong about just about everything, but he's been consistent on this one. Speaking of the 06 Cramdown, I mark that as the beginning of the end of the GOP. Before the TARP, before the profound idiocy of Robamneycare, before the gun grabs and the continuing resolutions, there was the Amnesty Cramdown--as clear a declaration of war by the GOP on conservatives as you could imagine.

109 41 Imagine if California had stayed red. Just imagine that for a moment. The domino effect. California rots. Ex Californians spread to Oregon, Washington, New Mexico, Nevada, Colorado, Arizona, Utah, Texas. Those states crumble. When Republicans played foolishly with amnesty, failed to defend Prop 187, and ultimately nodded to a gentlemen's agreement for 'safe' districts, they lost the biggest electoral jackpot, and doomed another hundred electoral votes within the next 25 years. great comment. Make a post of it. Can't be discussed enough

110 But Marco Rubio says it's all good. We have his word on it.

111 It would sure be nice if Levin and Limbaugh and Hannity, who all claim to be oh so opposed to amnesty, would stop humping the leg of it's chief pusher, faceman and spokesmouth, Marco Rubio.

112 One, if he is encouraged he might continue doing it.

The Pope will build a Vatican in Vegas before that happens...

113 Rubio, at this point, must be regarded as a bald-face liar.

It was possible those cagey older Senators like McCain and Schumer just slipped in the weak provisions in an 800-odd page bill when he wasn't looking.  But even after exposure, he's out defending it.  He's lying.  He's dead to me.

Just to make ONE point others aren't emphasizing:  Rubio claims those here illegally who don't pay the fine and back taxes will be deported?  Really?  Well at least 3-4 million illegals are under the poverty line, they won't be paying anything.  So how about let Obama just round them all up and deport them, and then we'll consider the bill, mmmkay?

Yeah, I didn't think so.  LIAR.

114 I don't think Frum's piece was so great. I think he's a career sellout who sometimes says something obvious, and this is one of those times. He's still a shill. This is almost like getting excited when something "breaks out into the mainstream media". Right wingers validate their ghettoization when they get all excited because someone outside the ghetto says something everyone should know and most people on the right do know.

115 106 Rubio, at this point, must be regarded as a bald-face liar. - Of course. The big excitement about Rubio was because he was a hispanic who was a solid conservative. In other words, there was a tension between two parts of his public identity, and right wingers thought he meant to go their way, and use his extra racial credibility in their favor. That trick rarely works. What usually happens is that the new star favors what they perceive as their race over conservative whites. Rubio is doing that. And he doesn't mind lying for the cause, especially with the mass immigration lobby in his favor now.

116 What happens when all the illegals are legalized? They will be now entitled to minimum wage and all the rest. Their wages and working conditions will go up. Does anyone seriously think that all the employers paying illegals will suddenly gladly take the hit of legalization??

Big business and small business will demand (in a back room deal) that the borders be left open, after a suitable time, when our backs are turned. It will happen all over again.

117 And, everyone says that illegal immigrants do in fact work rather hard. Most people praise them for that.
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Pfft. There is no evidence that illegals work any harder than anyone else. Just another mythical talking point that is accepted as fact.

118 Frum is actually capable of writing and thinking? Who knew?

119 The European nations have work visitation rules under which foreigners can come in and work and receive benefits while working, but if they retire in the country in which they have worked, they no longer are eligible for benefits and usually have to return to their country of origin and get their elderly care from the family they have been sending money to for years.  I do not trust our legislators to pass legislation such as this, and the Europeans do not advertise the fact that they do what I just spoke of, and in fact may deny it.  I know this from having distant relatives in this position.  The immigrant worker ghettos in Europe look a little like concentration camps and are usually several miles outside the cities.

120 109 What happens when all the illegals are legalized? They will be now entitled to minimum wage and all the rest. Their wages and working conditions will go up. Does anyone seriously think that all the employers paying illegals will suddenly gladly take the hit of legalization??

Big business and small business will demand (in a back room deal) that the borders be left open, after a suitable time, when our backs are turned. It will happen all over again.

Posted by: PJ at May 10, 2013 01:55 AM (ZWaLo)

That's exactly what happened last time.

121 I have a good friend who legally immigrated from England. He is an electrical engineer and we have worked together on many projects. The terms he had to agree to was that he would never be able to collect any money from govt, no food stamps no unemployment, no social security. He does have to pay all taxes though. He agreed to those terms because the US free market economy afforded him a much better chance for success than back home. I believe he also could not vote for a number of years after becoming a citizen. If these stipulations were in place now during the amnesty I doubt if the politicians would have any interest in the plight of the illegals. We would be attracting people that did truly want to work hard and contribute, instead of salivating over new liberal votes to be bought