March 13, 2014

David Mamet on Life and Politics But Mostly Life
— Ace

Interesting interview at the Federalist.

Some observations he makes:


“The left indicts anything that it cannot immediately identify as leftist as political,” Mamet said and insisted that his early plays for the stage and screen, including the aforementioned trio critics called “anti-capitalist”, were “apolitical.”

...

“The combative nature of human beings in relationships with each other and in the understanding of themselves is the essence of the tragic view,” Mamet said before continuing, “The marvelous thing about my discovery of conservative philosophy and economics is that it made sense with my previous experience in the world. It is saying that there are things beyond our understanding, but by observing them we might be able to deal with them. We can never completely do away with the final remainder of discomfort, mutual loathing, and self-doubt, because that is part of the human condition. Whatever we do, the price of failure will be chaos, but the price of success will also be chaos.”

Mamet sees a lot of problems in modern society's determination to take the competitive aspect -- animal spirits -- of life out of life, to denature it, to neuter it. (On this point he would probably have a great deal of agreement with dissident feminist Camille Paglia.)


It is the well-intentioned, but destructive attempt to assuage the fear of matriculation ["matriculation" is Mamet's term for the passage from adolescence to true adulthood -- ed.], and the lack of incentive to prove one’s worth, competence, and skill, that have created a culture of conformity, weakness, and banality. “If one tries to save the young from the rigors and traumas of life, you’re saving them from life,” Mamet said.

He asks, regarding sex, and what (my words, not his) could be characterized by a Brave New World sort of "Orgy-Porgy" trivialization/juvenlization of sex...

“What’s happened when a 19-year-old American male is jaded about sex?”

And answers his own question:


“Part of the matriculation process for a young man has always been”, Mamet continued, “I don’t know how to make a living, but I better figure it out or I’m never going to get laid. When you take that away, you take away the strongest goad he will ever experience in his life.”

He discusses one of my personal obsessions, shibboleths, a bit, though he calls them "recognition symbols" (which is of course all "shibboleths" mean).

“What is college? Nothing. Students learn five recognition symbols that make them comfortable in conversation with other people who know nothing. And they don’t realize that they’ve learned to rely too much on others.”

He also talks about another pet obsession, which is the idea that modern society really can only be understood by accepting that it is still very much a primitive society on its fundamental level:


His study of the Native Americans, which began with an article for the Smithsonian National Museum on Buffalos and the “national shame” of American atrocities toward Natives, led him to the discovery that “One sees how a primitive society has all the elements of ours, which is just another primitive society with a lot more technology.”

He talks more explicitly about politics (and race, and LBJ's Great Society, and so on) but I'll direct you to the article for that.

I think his unifying philosophy is this:

Society has become too allergic to conflict and competition, and has created too many rules and penalties for such. This began (as most projects do) with a decent enough goal -- let's reduce conflict; let's make life not so terribly competitive -- but it has gone too far, and society now punishes these things too much, and therefore punishes basic human nature too much, and too strongly represses the vital animal spirits that propel humans and drive human betterment (on both a human and societal level).

And this tends to make people bored (he talks about the boredom of modern society a lot), cowardly, passive, unproductive and ultimately empty.

A "we had to destroy the village in order to save the village" sort of take on the project to denature the human spirit.

That's my guess.

Awesome: D-Lamp links this:

"MEN WANTED for hazardous journey, small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return doubtful, honor and recognition in case of success.

Ernest Shackleton 4 Burlington st.

Now not everyone, of course, can be Shackleton. But we seem to admire men like him less and less.

Shackleton's achievement, in case you don't know, was born of failure: His expedition to the Antarctic failed catastrophically. I think his ship got iced in and was immobilized and then lost.

But what he did then was amazing: he led his crew back to safety, despite impossible odds. I think they ultimately used rowboats, paddling through the open polar ocean, to make their way to the southernmost tip of South America. And even when they got that far, they had a long slog back to actual civilization.


Posted by: Ace at 11:42 AM | Comments (283)
Post contains 835 words, total size 6 kb.

1 I won't say it....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 13, 2014 11:43 AM (QFxY5)

2 say what?

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2014 11:46 AM (/FnUH)

3 Coffee is for closers.



Posted by: EC at March 13, 2014 11:46 AM (GQ8sn)

4 Necessity is the mother of invention. Conflict is the father of necessity.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at March 13, 2014 11:47 AM (da5Wo)

5 Where have all the cowboys gone?

Posted by: sweet...ish at March 13, 2014 11:47 AM (bj+Nc)

6 "First."

Just being silly.

By the way, the allergy to competition is old...."Plowshares" and such. After all, war is the ultimate competition.

But it's still a great point.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 13, 2014 11:48 AM (QFxY5)

7 So Mamet is saying that young men no longer have to have a "career track" to get laid? He is probably right. There are a lot of layabouts who get laid a lot now because, dare I say it, young women have lowered their standards. Why buy the Cow when you get the milk for free?

Posted by: Alex Baldwin at March 13, 2014 11:51 AM (32Ze2)

8 Isn't his daughter on "Girls"?

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at March 13, 2014 11:52 AM (WdbF7)

9 Where is everybody?

This is great stuff!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 13, 2014 11:52 AM (QFxY5)

10 I've always admired Mamet's turn toward conservatism, probably because it was so sudden and shocking.  Here's a former liberal who had the intellect and sense to stop and think about both sides, draw conclusions, and then actually change his own self based on his reflections.

That's fucking huge!

How many other people can honestly say they could do what he did?

Posted by: EC at March 13, 2014 11:52 AM (GQ8sn)

11 The competition is never eliminated, it just heads into different areas of life.  Perhaps what we should be concerned about is keeping conflict only in certain areas.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Buy Four Outrages, get a Rightous Indignation Free! at March 13, 2014 11:52 AM (hLRSq)

12 We've removed actions from consequences, and work from survival. Perhaps wealth is a luxury that the soul cannot afford.

Posted by: grammie winger at March 13, 2014 11:53 AM (oMKp3)

13 Isn't his daughter on "Girls"?

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at March 13, 2014 03:52 PM (WdbF7)



That would be Brian Williams.

Posted by: EC at March 13, 2014 11:53 AM (GQ8sn)

14 Mamet negates the notion that worthwhile artistic and literary creativity are solely within the purview of the Left. He's my hero. He's always closing.

Posted by: troyriser at March 13, 2014 11:53 AM (V9ol4)

15 Mamet negates the notion that worthwhile artistic and literary creativity are solely within thepurview of the Left. He's my hero. He's always closing.

Posted by: troyriser at March 13, 2014 03:53 PM (V9ol4)



He walked away with the Caddy and the steak knives.



Posted by: EC at March 13, 2014 11:54 AM (GQ8sn)

16 Wow. Read Ace's entire commentary and there are still very few comments here yet.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 11:55 AM (bb5+k)

17 Maybe I figured it out before most guys my age, but my reason for going to school and wanting a better life is not solely to get laid.

Posted by: Adam at March 13, 2014 11:55 AM (Aif/5)

18 How many other people can honestly say they could do what he did? Posted by: EC at March 13, 2014 03:52 PM (GQ8sn) _______________ There are a lot of people here who have done the same thing. Anyone who is truly intellectually honest will come about too.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 13, 2014 11:55 AM (32Ze2)

19 David Mamet, a Pulitzer Prize winning genius and giant of theater, film, and literature,

If David Mamet says the things he has said, it's important.

If the guy at the corner gas station says those same things it's only because he's read Mamet. It is simply not possible that the guy at the corner gas station could have figured these things out on his own with out help from the Pulitzer Prize winning geniuses among us.



Posted by: Teddy (Trust me) Felch at March 13, 2014 11:55 AM (QZPtZ)

20 My stars!!!  Has Ace FINALLY read A Brave New World??

Posted by: prescient11 at March 13, 2014 11:55 AM (tVTLU)

21 I think perhaps he is also talking about the futility of trying to create the liberal utopia - socialized everything.

When I argue with the libtards about their idea that we can do away with capitalism, I argue that no, you cannot.  It is part of the competitive nature of humans.  You cannot legislate that out of them.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at March 13, 2014 11:55 AM (Z7PrM)

22 "...when you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes

Posted by: Soothsayer at March 13, 2014 11:56 AM (IW1TI)

23 David Mamet seems like the smartest man in Hollywood. Really As a result, he has no other choice but to be "conservative", as it is dubbed.

Posted by: zombie at March 13, 2014 11:56 AM (mizYg)

24 In the future all men will sit around in red and black onsies drinking hot chocolate.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 13, 2014 11:57 AM (XUKZU)

25 Well, good news then, cause Putin looks set to inject a little competition and animal spirits back into the world.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 13, 2014 11:57 AM (ZPrif)

26 12 We've removed actions from consequences, and work from survival. Perhaps wealth is a luxury that the soul cannot afford. Posted by: grammie winger at March 13, 2014 03:53 PM (oMKp3) As profound as David Mamet's commentary. And yes, wealth seems to initiate a process in humans that damages them somehow. We have the idiocy we tolerate nowadays only because we can afford it. (sort of.)

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 11:58 AM (bb5+k)

27 Teenagers today, especially the choice girls, are practically asexual. They are so driven to get into good colleges and to get on that career track that they do without relationships. So if you're a teenage boy, it's slim pickings.

Posted by: NCKate at March 13, 2014 11:58 AM (y7PFk)

28

I donÂ’t know how to make a living, but I better figure it out or IÂ’m never going to get laid.

 

That be true.  You get a pass when you're still under the wing in some sense, like college (or I guess high school if you have social skills. I didn't).  But then, yeah, you need to pay for an apartment and beer and bathing supplies.

 

And that turns out to last your whole life.  I thought sex was going to be stochastic bouts of athleticism, moisture and shame, and then there'd be marriage and you grow out of wanting sex.  It turns out you want it your whole life and you always have to have a job to keep it coming.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 13, 2014 11:58 AM (A0sHn)

29 "we had to destroy the village in order to save the village" Which was a quote made up by a journalist, not an American military officer as he had his readers believe.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at March 13, 2014 11:58 AM (n3Om1)

30 When you have a nation full of obese, lazy young men who play computer games instead of actual physical activity, and have access to easy, commitment-free sex,    there is nowhere to go but down.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 13, 2014 11:58 AM (CpbrP)

31 Mamet is a man who understands accurately the human condition and recognizes human folly, a rarity these days.

Posted by: Soothsayer at March 13, 2014 11:59 AM (IW1TI)

32 "...when you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Sherlock Holmes

-
So Reid is one of the lizard people.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 13, 2014 11:59 AM (XUKZU)

33 Fuck YOU that's my name!

Posted by: blaster at March 13, 2014 11:59 AM (4+AaH)

34 I can't quite remember what exactly tipped Mamet into becoming conservative.  Ace linked it here once.  I think it was after sitting through a highly reviewed theater play (cue EoJ!) that others praised lavishly, but Mamet himself thought it sucked balls.  I think he then thought, 'what else is different between them and I?" and then it went from there.


Posted by: EC at March 13, 2014 11:59 AM (GQ8sn)

35 24 WalrusRex "In the future all men will sit around in red and black onsies drinking hot chocolate." No. They will find traditional women abroad.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at March 13, 2014 11:59 AM (n3Om1)

36 14 Mamet negates the notion that worthwhile artistic and literary creativity are solely within thepurview of the Left. He's my hero. He's always closing. Posted by: troyriser at March 13, 2014 03:53 PM (V9ol4) The right is creative, but mostly in a practical sort of way. Engineering, for example. That business of trying to "move" people with made up pretense is mostly a lefty phenomena.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 11:59 AM (bb5+k)

37
So he is saying let it burn.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 13, 2014 12:00 PM (gorVZ)

38  The competition is never eliminated, it just heads into different areas of life. Perhaps what we should be concerned about is keeping conflict only in certain areas.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Buy Four Outrages, get a Rightous Indignation Free! at March 13, 2014 03:52 PM (hLRSq)

 

I didn't finish:  Eliminating all conflict seems to be one of those pie-in-the-sky utopian ideas that only leads to repression (PC anyone?) and a lot of related problems.  Channel conflict, because it is natural and cannot be fully eliminated.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Buy Four Outrages, get a Rightous Indignation Free! at March 13, 2014 12:00 PM (hLRSq)

39 >>> If David Mamet says the things he has said, it's important. If the guy at the corner gas station says those same things it's only because he's read Mamet. It is simply not possible that the guy at the corner gas station could have figured these things out on his own with out help from the Pulitzer Prize winning geniuses among us. ... the egalitarian/leveling idea can be taken too far, you know. Yes, David Mamet has achieved an eliteness. If you deny that, you're essentially claiming that everyone is literally equal down to the atom, no matter how different they are in terms of achievement.

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2014 12:00 PM (/FnUH)

40 I know I may overuse curse words on this blog, and to those who that offends, I apologize, but that's just how I fucking talk.   I'm Mamet in that way!

Posted by: prescient11 at March 13, 2014 12:00 PM (tVTLU)

41

When you have a nation full of obese, lazy young men who play computer games instead of actual physical activity, and have access to easy, commitment-free sex, there is nowhere to go but down.

 

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 13, 2014 03:58 PM (CpbrP)

 

YEAH there is!

 

/Sandra Fluke

Posted by: Washington Nearsider at March 13, 2014 12:00 PM (fwARV)

42 Maybe I figured it out before most guys my age, but my reason for going to school and wanting a better life is not solely to get laid. "Solely." See the part of the interview on race. SPOT ON. As we were discussing last night, dependency, violence, and fatalism are apparently the goals of the left when it comes to blacks in America. Yet, we are insincere when noticing the implosion of urban schools on the altar of union greed.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 13, 2014 12:01 PM (659DL)

43 35 Amen. Definitely.

Posted by: NCKate at March 13, 2014 12:02 PM (y7PFk)

44

 "...when you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

 



Sherlock Holmes

 

 

 

Okay then Mr. Sooper Detective, what happened to Malaysia Flight 370?

Posted by: Count de Monet at March 13, 2014 12:02 PM (BAS5M)

45 This sort of blog post pretty much defines my condition in life.

Posted by: Idle Time, Idle Mind, Counting the Trust Fund Monies at March 13, 2014 12:02 PM (pmsMR)

46 How many other people can honestly say they could do what he did?

Posted by: EC at March 13, 2014 03:52 PM (GQ8sn)

 

*raises hand*. There are lots of us. I was raised in a liberal environment (my grandfather was a lifelong UAW man and a New Dealer), grew up, did some heavy reading and thinking, followed the logic, and ended up here. Unlike Mamet's Road to Damascus moment of near-instantaneous conversion, there was nothing sudden about it, at least not for me.

 

For me, the big leap wasn't from liberal Democrat to moderate Republican. The hard part was the transition from moderate to conservative. It's a bigger divide than you would think.

Posted by: troyriser at March 13, 2014 12:03 PM (V9ol4)

47 23 David Mamet seems like the smartest man in Hollywood. Really As a result, he has no other choice but to be "conservative", as it is dubbed. Posted by: zombie at March 13, 2014 03:56 PM (mizYg) Conservative is a thinking philosophy. Liberalism is a feeling philosophy.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 12:03 PM (bb5+k)

48 what happened to Malaysia Flight 370? It crashed into the sea and everyone is on board is fish food.

Posted by: Soothsayer at March 13, 2014 12:03 PM (IW1TI)

49 And this tends to make people bored (he talks about the boredom of modern society a lot), cowardly, passive, unproductive and ultimately empty.


That's exactly how I peg the Left.


Posted by: EC at March 13, 2014 12:03 PM (GQ8sn)

50 That is a powerful piece, and a reminder I need to put some Mamet in my Amazon queue. Thanks for sharing it, Ace.

Posted by: jakeman at March 13, 2014 12:03 PM (vH4YP)

51 “If one tries to save the young from the rigors and traumas of life, you’re saving them from life,” Mamet said.


A perfect expression of an essential difference in philosophy between conservatives and "progressives."

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 13, 2014 12:03 PM (8ZskC)

52 Human beings and their motivations have not changed in the five thousand years of recorded history. All insistence to the contrary is personal hubris and cultural vanity.

Posted by: toby928© at March 13, 2014 12:03 PM (QupBk)

53 too strongly represses the vital animal spirits that propel humans and drive human betterment



"What, you mean, like,    paying people not to work    takes away the incentive for them to work and thus better themselves through their own labor?   Crazy talk!"  


-Nazi PeloKKKi

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit [/u][/i][/s][/b] at March 13, 2014 12:04 PM (4df7R)

54 The bit about removing competition puts me in mind of that idiot, Alfie Kohn.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone and Alfie Kohn at March 13, 2014 12:04 PM (Y1Jhk)

55 Yeah, we're nothing but mammals in a lot of ways. Sex drive spurs much. Partly why men are so bossy.

Posted by: blaster at March 13, 2014 12:04 PM (4+AaH)

56

“If one tries to save the young from the rigors and traumas of life, you’re saving them from life,” Mamet said.

 

-

 

That is exactly right.      The whole point of life is the journey.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 13, 2014 12:04 PM (CpbrP)

57 19

Round these parts, that sort of thinking gets you denounced for "cultural resentment" or something.

Posted by: tsj017 at March 13, 2014 12:05 PM (4YUWF)

58 It's in man's nature to make things better. You can dull it, or you can harness it, you can devalue it to a large extent, but you can't take it away. Man will continue to progress until such progress is ended by force.

Force against the betterment of man (usually done with the excuse that it's being employed FOR the betterment of man) is the real enemy.

Such a direct tyranny a far bigger enemy of mankind than the dullness and boredom created by millions of rules written by idiots.

Posted by: Mega, AoS Commenter of the Decade at March 13, 2014 12:05 PM (hHFOx)

59 >>Society has become too allergic to conflict and competition, and has created too many rules and penalties for such.<<

Therein lies the basis of contemporary liberalism. It's sole purpose has become to "assuage" the guilt of people who no longer wish to uphold the standards of modern society. So they try to change perception and mores- by force and through opinion making. They beat, belittle and make people submit. Not because there is some underlying, tangible societal good or reasoning. But because, controlling the levers of opinion or government they can.

Societies prosper when all the members, including those alleged to be in the minority contribute in a meaningful way. That's why we call what is going on in our country today despotism and autocratic. Their is no balance. Nor is their any intelligent reasoning. It is bereft of those qualities and we are lesser for it.

Posted by: Marcus T. at March 13, 2014 12:05 PM (GGCsk)

60 David Mamet's IQ is larger than the cumulative IQ all all the Hollywood liberals combined. Thus, actually, Hollywood, when measured on a "brain power" scale, does not tilt left at all. His one braisn out-weighs all of theirs.

Posted by: zombie at March 13, 2014 12:05 PM (mizYg)

61 Unlimited porn also weakens the animal spirits. On the plus side you get fewer rapes and murders. All men are weakened, the evil, violent, and crazy ones alongside the normal ones.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 13, 2014 12:05 PM (ZPrif)

62 29 "we had to destroy the village in order to save the village" Which was a quote made up by a journalist, not an American military officer as he had his readers believe. Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at March 13, 2014 03:58 PM (n3Om1) Left wing propaganda has been steering the nation wrong for a very long time. I personally regard it as the most serious national security threat we face.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 12:05 PM (bb5+k)

63 Society has become too allergic to conflict and competition, and has created too many rules and penalties for such. This began (as most projects do) with a decent enough goal -- let's reduce conflict; let's make life not so terribly competitive -- but it has gone too far, and society now punishes these things too much, and therefore punishes basic human nature too much, and too strongly represses the vital animal spirits that propel humans and power advancement (on both a human and societal level).

and another point, while Some society's do this we cannot count on others society's doing this.
or  we become the eaten .

Posted by: willow at March 13, 2014 12:05 PM (nqBYe)

64

“If one tries to save the young from the rigors and traumas of life, you’re saving them from life,”

 

So a whole generation can't even write one decent song.

Posted by: eleven at March 13, 2014 12:06 PM (fsLdt)

65 I once *thought* I was a liberal until I actually *thought*. In my late 20's all was made clear.

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at March 13, 2014 12:06 PM (SCcgT)

66 and another point, while Some society's do this we cannot count on others society's doing this.
or we become the eaten .

Posted by: willow at March 13, 2014 04:05 PM (nqBYe)



What?  No f-bombs???



Posted by: EC at March 13, 2014 12:06 PM (GQ8sn)

67 And this tends to make people bored (he talks about the boredom of
modern society a lot), cowardly, passive, unproductive and ultimately
empty.



It's what I've taken to calling a decadent   society;   one in which  self-indulgence and ease have    replaced     personal achievement    and vigor as the primary    drives of   life.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit [/u][/i][/s][/b] at March 13, 2014 12:06 PM (4df7R)

68 I thought sex was going to be stochastic bouts of athleticism, moisture and shame, and then there'd be marriage and you grow out of wanting sex. It turns out you want it your whole life and you always have to have a job to keep it coming. Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 13, 2014 03:58 PM (A0sHn) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pure poetry man..... Pure poetry.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 13, 2014 12:06 PM (32Ze2)

69 “One sees how a primitive society has all the elements of ours, which is just another primitive society with a lot more technology.” That one goes in my special quotes book. He sees that the Romans or even the Innsbruck Iceman may have had less technology but they were dealing with the same society of fools we all do today. Human Nature doesn't change much. That's what makes him such a great writer. I had an epiphany today that, because of all the metropolitan population pressure, social media and endless swallowing of everyday slights, that our "combative" society breeds a lot of passive aggressive activity in just about everyone---more than in the past America.

Posted by: Daybrother at March 13, 2014 12:06 PM (1T+2T)

70 The right is creative, but mostly in a practical sort of way. Engineering, for example. Bull. Creativity does not know political ideology (unless we want to talk the horrors of Social Realism in architecture), but I digress. What the left would like to do is make everyone THINK conservatives are a bunch of artistic Philistines.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 13, 2014 12:06 PM (659DL)

71

“I don’t know how to make a living, but I better figure it out or I’m never going to get laid. When you take that away, you take away the strongest goad he will ever experience in his life.”

 

Great point.

Posted by: eleven at March 13, 2014 12:07 PM (fsLdt)

72 EC, well no.

but *slams door* on your toes.

Posted by: willow at March 13, 2014 12:07 PM (nqBYe)

73 “The marvelous thing about my discovery of conservative philosophy and economics is that it made sense with my previous experience in the world. It is saying that there are things beyond our understanding, but by observing them we might be able to deal with them... Nice. I like the cut of Mamet's jib.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 13, 2014 12:07 PM (7ObY1)

74

Do you know what is arguably the most complicated and extreme example of human achievement?      Building a Saturn V and sending men to the moon and back.

 

That was 50 years ago.  Since then......

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 13, 2014 12:07 PM (CpbrP)

75 27 Teenagers today, especially the choice girls, are practically asexual. They are so driven to get into good colleges and to get on that career track that they do without relationships. So if you're a teenage boy, it's slim pickings. Posted by: NCKate I have some really, really sad news for you.

Posted by: zombie at March 13, 2014 12:08 PM (mizYg)

76 This is some heavy-duty shit.  

All Carl Sagan wanted to do was get high, laid, and eat.

Posted by: Fritz at March 13, 2014 12:08 PM (PnMCP)

77 EC, well no.

but *slams door* on your toes.

Posted by: willow at March 13, 2014 04:07 PM (nqBYe)


Hehe...missed my shins!

Posted by: EC at March 13, 2014 12:08 PM (GQ8sn)

78 >>>The competition is never eliminated, it just heads into different areas of life. Like the cheap affirmations of online rages and viral judging, discussed earlier. Preening behaviors. That is an "acceptable" outlet for competition. Of course, it's a shabby competition. What does any of that actually prove about merit?

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2014 12:08 PM (/FnUH)

79 I didn't finish: Eliminating all conflict seems to be one of those pie-in-the-sky utopian ideas that only leads to repression (PC anyone?) and a lot of related problems. Channel conflict, because it is natural and cannot be fully eliminated. Posted by: Mikey NTH - Buy Four Outrages, get a Rightous Indignation Free! at March 13, 2014 04:00 PM (hLRSq) Kurt Vonnegut Jr.--- October 1961. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 12:08 PM (bb5+k)

80 "Yes, David Mamet has achieved an eliteness.

If you deny that,"
--------------------------------------------------------------

David Mamet has achieved recognition among his peers.
I don't know him, or his peers, nor do I care to.

The guy at the corner gas station who can make repairs to my car for a price I can afford has earned my respect.

But when the elite try to tell me something I already know, wrapping it up in big words like it's some revelation, I find it annoying. Tell me something I don't know, something that's useful to me.

Posted by: Teddy (Trust me) Felch at March 13, 2014 12:09 PM (QZPtZ)

81 Human beings and their motivations have not changed in the five thousand years of recorded history. All insistence to the contrary is personal hubris and cultural vanity.


Yep. The more history I read the more I'm amazed at how little human beings have changed over 5,000 years of history.  You can go back to Sumer and ancient Egypt and you'd find people just as ambitious, clever, cruel, and self-aggrandizing as we have today.  I've often said that if you brought Julius Caesar to the present and gave him some time to learn the culture and the technology, he'd end up dominating politics here just as he did in Rome.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 13, 2014 12:09 PM (8ZskC)

82 Well, good news then, cause Putin looks set to inject a little competition and animal spirits back into the world.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 13, 2014 03:57 PM (ZPrif)




Competition only works if someone steps up to compete against you.    You really think Obammy or the Euroweenies are going to say boo to Putin?



You know, we might just defeat his   land-grabbing   megalomania   by being too damn     conciliatory.       He'll be bored to tears.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit [/u][/i][/s][/b] at March 13, 2014 12:09 PM (4df7R)

83 All Carl Sagan wanted to do was get high, laid, and eat. Billions and billions of times.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 13, 2014 12:09 PM (7ObY1)

84 Human beings and their motivations have not changed in the five thousand years of recorded history. We have, however, evolved to the point where we can pass onerous legislation dealing with 1/6 of the economy. And then ignore all of it except the parts that create another federal Leviathan to administer the stuff that we are ignoring.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 13, 2014 12:10 PM (659DL)

85 I wonder what Mamet thinks happened to the airliner? I mean, they already ruled out terrorism but seems the data is now pointing toward hijacking.

Posted by: blaster at March 13, 2014 12:10 PM (4+AaH)

86 49 That is a powerful piece, and a reminder I need to put some Mamet in my Amazon queue. Dittoes.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 13, 2014 12:10 PM (7ObY1)

87

Stanislaw Lem is a great Sci-Fi writer from Poland who wrote a story about this idea.  (Return From the Stars) 

 

If you take the violence out of man you rob him of creativity and vitality.

Posted by: eleven at March 13, 2014 12:11 PM (fsLdt)

88 I mean, they already ruled out terrorism but seems the data is now pointing toward hijacking.


Ummm....isn't hijacking a form of terrorism itself?


Posted by: EC at March 13, 2014 12:11 PM (GQ8sn)

89 Right now John Kerry is enroute to Russia to make a show of force. He is commanding the Scaramouche at full speed, eyes steady at the helm, knife clenched between his teeth. Ammo bandoliers crossing his sweaty and manly chest. As he barks out orders to the crew of the Scaramouche. "I know we've entered Russian waters but I'm not turning back. We're going to show these Damn Ruskies who's boss" His rugged jaw clincheing as he strains his steely blue eyes towards the Russian coast. His days of bravery in Vietnam still a fresh wound after all these years. He clutches his dog tags in one hand as he thinks of going into the heat of battle once again. Sweat at his brow as he steels himself.

Posted by: Chris Mathews Finding a New Tingle. at March 13, 2014 12:11 PM (/rlXg)

90 >>> David Mamet has achieved recognition among his peers. I don't know him, or his peers, nor do I care to. The guy at the corner gas station who can make repairs to my car for a price I can afford has earned my respect. But when the elite try to tell me something I already know, wrapping it up in big words like it's some revelation, I find it annoying. Tell me something I don't know, something that's useful to me. ... Eh, I know his work and have been a fan of his almost my whole life.

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2014 12:11 PM (/FnUH)

91 Oh there's limited amounts of pron, trust me.

Posted by: True Moron at March 13, 2014 12:11 PM (Aif/5)

92 BRAVE NEW WORLD Chapter Three OUTSIDE, in the garden, it was playtime. Naked in the warm June sunshine, six or seven hundred little boys and girls were running with shrill yells over the lawns, or playing ball games, or squatting silently in twos and threes among the flowering shrubs. The roses were in bloom, two nightingales soliloquized in the boskage, a cuckoo was just going out of tune among the lime trees. The air was drowsy with the murmur of bees and helicopters. The Director and his students stood for a short time watching... [...] "That's a charming little group," he said, pointing. In a little grassy bay between tall clumps of Mediterranean heather, two children, a little boy of about seven and a little girl who might have been a year older, were playing, very gravely and with all the fo- cussed attention of scientists intent on a labour of discovery, a rudi- mentary sexual game. "Charming, charming!" the D.H.C. repeated sentimentally. "Charming," the boys politely agreed. But their smile was rather pa- tronizing. They had put aside similar childish amusements too recently to be able to watch them now without a touch of contempt. Charming? but it was just a pair of kids fooling about; that was all. Just kids. "I always think," the Director was continuing in the same rather maud- lin tone, when he was interrupted by a loud boo-hooing. From a neighbouring shrubbery emerged a nurse, leading by the hand a small boy, who howled as he went. An anxious-looking little girl trot- ted at her heels. "What's the matter?" asked the Director. The nurse shrugged her shoulders. "Nothing much," she answered. "It's just that this little boy seems rather reluctant to join in the ordi- nary erotic play. I'd noticed it once or twice before. And now again to- day. He started yelling just now ..." "Honestly," put in the anxious-looking little girl, "I didn't mean to hurt him or anything. Honestly." "Of course you didn't, dear," said the nurse reassuringly. "And so," she went on, turning back to the Director, "I'm taking him in to see the As- sistant Superintendent of Psychology. Just to see if anything's at all abnormal." "Quite right," said the Director. "Take him in. You stay here, little girl," he added, as the nurse moved away with her still howling charge. "What's your name?" "Polly Trotsky." "And a very good name too," said the Director. "Run away now and see if you can find some other little boy to play with." The child scampered off into the bushes and was lost to sight. "Exquisite little creature!" said the Director, looking after her. Then, turning to his students, "What I'm going to tell you now," he said, "may sound incredible. But then, when you're not accustomed to his- tory, most facts about the past do sound incredible." He let out the amazing truth. For a very long period before the time of Our Ford, and even for some generations afterwards, erotic play be- tween children had been regarded as abnormal (there was a roar of laughter); and not only abnormal, actually immoral (no!): and had therefore been rigorously suppressed. A look of astonished incredulity appeared on the faces of his listeners. Poor little kids not allowed to amuse themselves? They could not be- lieve it. "Even adolescents," the D.H.C. was saying, "even adolescents like yourselves ..." "Not possible!" "Barring a little surreptitious auto-erotism and homosexuality-abso- lutely nothing." "Nothing?" "In most cases, till they were over twenty years old." "Twenty years old?" echoed the students in a chorus of loud disbelief. "Twenty," the Director repeated. "I told you that you'd find it incredi- ble." "But what happened?" they asked. "What were the results?" "The results were terrible."

Posted by: zombie at March 13, 2014 12:12 PM (mizYg)

93 Accursed formatting! Apologies.

Posted by: zombie at March 13, 2014 12:13 PM (mizYg)

94 Ummm....isn't hijacking a form of terrorism itself? ------------ Man caused disaster bitch!

Posted by: Janet Napolitano at March 13, 2014 12:13 PM (Aif/5)

95 Mamets comments here are like the talking dog, not so much what he says, but that he talks at all.

Posted by: blaster at March 13, 2014 12:13 PM (4+AaH)

96 I thought I was a Liberal until I saw the wreckage Carter unleashed upon this country. I was very young and very stupid. The MFM told me, endlessly, that Reagan was a senile old B-movie actor who was going to start WWIII. Then I saw what Reagan brought to the table. I wised up in a hurry. Luckily, my conversion happened before I was old enough to actually vote, so my youthful folly caused no harm.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 13, 2014 12:13 PM (7ObY1)

97 Mamet is a man who understands accurately the human condition and recognizes human folly, a rarity these days. Posted by: Soothsayer at March 13, 2014 03:59 PM (IW1TI) Exactly. I am a huge admirer of Mamet. Anyone who can create both Speed The Plow and State and Main has an agile and keen mind indeed. I am fascinated that those on the Left who are now attempting to discredit all of Mamet's work because of his politics do not comprehend that such an action itself validates his comments. Go you huskies!

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at March 13, 2014 12:14 PM (VtjlW)

98 Society has become too allergic to conflict and competition, and has created too many rules and penalties for such.-Ace For lack of creativity, yeah, what he said.

Posted by: Misanthopic Humanitarian at March 13, 2014 12:15 PM (HVff2)

99 loved Speed the Plow, hated State and Main.

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2014 12:15 PM (/FnUH)

100 Well it's not like successful men aren't getting laid, shit look at Peter Orszag.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at March 13, 2014 12:15 PM (WdbF7)

101 It's what I've taken to calling a decadent society; one in which self-indulgence and ease have replaced personal achievement and vigor as the primary drives of life. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit at March 13, 2014 04:06 PM (4df7R) "MEN WANTED for hazardous journey, small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return doubtful, honor and recognition in case of success. Ernest Shackleton 4 Burlington st. http://www.artofmanliness.com/trunk/381/ernest-shackletons-ad/

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 12:15 PM (bb5+k)

102 For most of human history, the few women a man managed to convince to get naked and have sex with him were -- the most attractive he could get. So when a woman unveiled herself it was a big deal -- that was the most beautiful woman he'd ever seen naked. Today the average man has seen thousands, maybe tens of thousands of nearly perfect naked chicks. The actual women that the average man sees naked are, being average, therefore in bottom tier of naked women he's seen. Average dude has seen 10k perfect naked 21 year old on youporn. Then along comes an average chick and she ranks 10,001 on the scale of most attractive women he's seen naked. it's on odd thing. Men are built to compete for status and dominate other men so they can get as attractive a chick as they can. The higher they rise, the more attractive woman they get. That's the reward. That's the whole point. But in today's world, 95% of men are going to end up with women less attractive then the 10k perfect naked chicks he bated to growing up. I think that has an odd effect on the male mind. A weakening of the animal spirits and desire to achieve. Porn and video games are a great way to calm any country's restless males. Video games are achievement porn. You virtual get chicks and you virtually accomplish things while sitting on your ass. The State doesn't mind as long as you just don't cause trouble.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 13, 2014 12:16 PM (ZPrif)

103 >>> "MEN WANTED for hazardous journey, small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return doubtful, honor and recognition in case of success. Ernest Shackleton 4 Burlington st. ... awesome.

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2014 12:16 PM (/FnUH)

104 There is an obvious example of what happens when achievement is not necessary for men to get laid....

Posted by: blaster at March 13, 2014 12:16 PM (4+AaH)

105 Poontang is what fuels civilization . Unfortunately they started adding beta male ethanol to it and screwed everything up.

Posted by: Rob Banks at March 13, 2014 12:17 PM (ODr92)

106 82 All Carl Sagan wanted to do was get high, laid, and eat. Billions and billions of times. Posted by: Citizen X at March 13, 2014 04:09 PM (7ObY1 Sounds like most men......Me included.

Posted by: Misanthopic Humanitarian at March 13, 2014 12:17 PM (HVff2)

107 Wang Dang Sweet Poontang. It's almost Shakespearian.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 13, 2014 12:18 PM (7ObY1)

108 That one goes in my special quotes book. He sees that the Romans or even the Innsbruck Iceman may have had less technology but they were dealing with the same society of fools we all do today. Human Nature doesn't change much. That's what makes him such a great writer. Posted by: Daybrother at March 13, 2014 04:06 PM (1T+2T) I have been pointing out my whole life that Human nature is basically a constant, be it in a hunter gatherer society or an Interstellar Empire. That human nature doesn't change has been the stumbling block for every Utopian scheme dreamed up by the dreamers since history begain. (Communism e.g.)

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 12:18 PM (bb5+k)

109 "Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart;     to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."


- Georges Clemenceau (1841-1929)

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit [/u][/i][/s][/b] at March 13, 2014 12:19 PM (4df7R)

110 Bull. Creativity does not know political ideology (unless we want to talk the horrors of Social Realism in architecture), but I digress. What the left would like to do is make everyone THINK conservatives are a bunch of artistic Philistines. Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 13, 2014 04:06 PM (659DL) Did not imply that the right cannot do art. I am simply of the opinion that most of the creative talent on the right turns it's interests towards practical creativity.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 12:20 PM (bb5+k)

111

Then along comes an average chick and she ranks 10,001 on the scale of most attractive women he's seen naked.

 

I beg to differ.  The actual girl who will put her hand in your pants is at that moment the most attractive girl in the world.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 13, 2014 12:20 PM (A0sHn)

112 David Mamet's IQ is larger than the cumulative IQ all all the Hollywood liberals combined.

Thus, actually, Hollywood, when measured on a "brain power" scale, does not tilt left at all. His one braisn out-weighs all of theirs.

Posted by: zombie at March 13, 2014 04:05 PM (mizYg)





TCM has been running Johnny Carson interviews. They showed one from 1972 with Truman Capote who said that most actors are idiots. Marlon Brando is so dumb he makes my skin crawl. He as no clue what he's talking about when it comes to Indians or the Vietnam war. On Jane Fonda he said, the only thing she has in her head are fleas. Her comments on Vietnam are embarrassingly stupid. It would be nice if more people pointed out how ragingly stupid the Commiewood left is

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 13, 2014 12:20 PM (1Jaio)

113 What if you're a smart and successful guy and you don't want to bed the Kim Kardashians of the world? Where are your female peers? Not in relationships.

Posted by: NCKate at March 13, 2014 12:20 PM (y7PFk)

114 In the end, all we really NEED is shelter, fire, water, earth and air. Everything else is gravy.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 13, 2014 12:21 PM (7ObY1)

115 loved Speed the Plow, hated State and Main. Posted by: ace at March 13, 2014 04:15 PM (/FnUH) See, I love State and Main but I can see why you (both generic and specific you) would hate it. It verges right on the line of whimsey and more than once topples over into twee. I still love it though. Obligatory pimp of Spartan here. I know it's a bit old but Roger L. Simon had a piece up the other day in which it's clear he's more or less gone full blown libertarian.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at March 13, 2014 12:21 PM (VtjlW)

116 "MEN WANTED for hazardous journey, small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return doubtful, honor and recognition in case of success.


Ernest Shackleton 4 Burlington st.



Oh, Shackleton.    I wish there   were more men   like you today!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit [/u][/i][/s][/b] at March 13, 2014 12:21 PM (4df7R)

117

You virtual get chicks and you virtually accomplish things while sitting on your ass. The State doesn't mind as long as you just don't cause trouble.

 

-

 

I could write a monstrously long post to cover my thoughts on this, but it goes back to the fi-con versus so-con argument of the past couple of weeks. 

 

The past two decades of cheap sex and children growing up with only one   parent has     damaged society greatly, and trying to combat that is not a problem but should be a    goal.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 13, 2014 12:21 PM (CpbrP)

118 >>Stanislaw Lem Posted by: eleven I remember that one. Good story. Made an impression on me. Golden Age stuff.

Posted by: Daybrother at March 13, 2014 12:21 PM (LtU4v)

119 Conan Doyle was quoting / using Occam's Razor for 'Sherlock Holmes'


everybody borrows...

Posted by: ( I learned the truth from ) Lenny Bruce at March 13, 2014 12:22 PM (omBWL)

120 "Isn't his daughter on "Girls"?"

Yeah but her mother is Lindsay Crouse, someone who fancy's herself as a educated Greenwich Village feminist Bohemian.

Posted by: lowandslow at March 13, 2014 12:22 PM (IV4od)

121 The guy at the corner gas station who can make repairs to my car for a price I can afford has earned my respect.

But when the elite try to tell me something I already know, wrapping it up in big words like it's some revelation, I find it annoying. Tell me something I don't know, something that's useful to me.

Posted by: Teddy (Trust me) Felch at March 13, 2014 04:09 PM (QZPtZ)

 

You're attempting to equate your mechanic with one of the greatest playwrights of our time, presumably because the egalitarian in you bristles at the idea that some people are qualitatively better than you are. News: some people are qualitatively wiser, smarter, more capable, better looking and in all other ways superior to you. And to me, for that matter. Sure, God loves us all, but to some of us he gave great gifts and equality just doesn't enter into it.

 

Many years ago, I once stood at attention 50 feet away from General James Gavin (ret) during Division Review while he addressed my unit, the 82nd Division (ABN), the unit he led in WWII. General Gavin radiated command presence, intellect, ability, leadership, and nobility of character, and was a better man than I'll ever hope to be. He was an elite by any definition of the word. His achievements are legendary.

 

So your mechanic has earned your respect and Mamet hasn't? Okay, but I suggest you broaden your idea of respect, what it is and what it means.

Posted by: troyriser at March 13, 2014 12:22 PM (V9ol4)

122 In the end, all we really NEED is shelter, fire, water, earth and air.

Everything else is gravy.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 13, 2014 04:21 PM (7ObY1)



Well, you also need    food.   

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit [/u][/i][/s][/b] at March 13, 2014 12:22 PM (4df7R)

123 Yep. The more history I read the more I'm amazed at how little human beings have changed over 5,000 years of history. You can go back to Sumer and ancient Egypt and you'd find people just as ambitious, clever, cruel, and self-aggrandizing as we have today. I've often said that if you brought Julius Caesar to the present and gave him some time to learn the culture and the technology, he'd end up dominating politics here just as he did in Rome. Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 13, 2014 04:09 PM (8ZskC) And this is why I regard "Libertarianism" as a short sighted ideology. We've been down these roads before. We know where they lead. Morality has evolved through cultural necessity, and you ought not dismiss it until you can see why it was there in the first place.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 12:22 PM (bb5+k)

124 It would be nice if more people pointed out how ragingly stupid the Commiewood left is Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 13, 2014 04:20 PM (1Jaio) The View puts it on display every weekday. It does not get the derision that it should. Ergo, see notes above about human nature.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 13, 2014 12:23 PM (659DL)

125 Well, you also need food. Hence, the gravy. Preferably from KFC--the crack of fast food condiments.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 13, 2014 12:24 PM (659DL)

126 I love conflict and competition, but only when I think I have an edge. Scrabble, Jeopardy or free-throw competitions, I'm your huckleberry. Poker, batting cage, eating crazy foods, I pre-emptively concede.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 13, 2014 12:24 PM (ZshNr)

127

And this is why I regard "Libertarianism" as a short sighted ideology.

We've been down these roads before. We know where they lead. Morality has evolved through cultural necessity, and you ought not dismiss it until you can see why it was there in the first place.

 

Mr. Lamp, your strawman is flaccid.  There is no conflict between libertarianism and morality.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 13, 2014 12:25 PM (A0sHn)

128 OT: Please say it was an intentional act when the driver of a vehicle plowed into a large group of people in Austin.  Driver's name is Rashad.  Rashad Charjuan Owens.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 13, 2014 12:25 PM (XUKZU)

129 What the left would like to do is make everyone THINK conservatives are a bunch of artistic Philistines. Because I'm a freelance writer, most of my writer/editor/graphic design compatriots assume I'm also a liberal. It shocks and horrifies them when I tell them the truth, which I enjoy thoroughly every chance I get. You can see them thinking, "But jakeman is such a nice, friendly guy--how can he be a conservative h8er?"

Posted by: jakeman at March 13, 2014 12:25 PM (vH4YP)

130 Porn, with the advent of the Internet, has become SO available and so diverse that young men now almost need it to get aroused. I read this somewhere and after thinking about it a little I came to discount it. Ms. Right Here Right Now should ALWAYS get a young man fired up and ready. I know it would me....

Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 13, 2014 12:25 PM (32Ze2)

131

Well, you also need food.

 

And this lamp.

Posted by: eleven at March 13, 2014 12:26 PM (fsLdt)

132

This discussion brings to mind a quote that I like about hunting:

 

Despite our ever-changing, ever-indignant world with its growing ignorance of and indifference to the ways of the wild, I remain a predator, pitying those who revel in artificiality and sythentic success while regarding me and my kind as relics of a time and place no longer valued or understood. I stalk a real world of dark wood and tall grass stirred by a restless wind blowing across sunlit water and beneath star-strewn sky. And on those occasions when I choose to kill,....I do so by choice, quickly, and with the learned efficiency of a skilled hunter." -- M. R. James

Posted by: The Jackhole at March 13, 2014 12:26 PM (nTgAI)

133 Well, you also need food. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit at March 13, 2014 04:22 PM (4df7R) Isnt gravy a food group?

Posted by: Misanthopic Humanitarian at March 13, 2014 12:26 PM (HVff2)

134 Maybe he learned nothing in college, but I earned two engineering degrees.

Posted by: Grim at March 13, 2014 12:26 PM (0TjWd)

135 There is no conflict between libertarianism and morality. --- Oh, ok then. Problem solved.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 13, 2014 12:26 PM (ZPrif)

136 Mr. Lamp, your strawman is flaccid. There is no conflict between libertarianism and morality. --------- Agreed!

Posted by: Mr. I'll fuck anything that moves at March 13, 2014 12:26 PM (Aif/5)

137 i heard some historian talking about Antarctic explorers and he was asked who he'd want on a hypothetical mission. He refused to choose, instead saying something like, "I'd want Scott for the science, Amundsen for the logistics, and Shackleton for when the sh*t hit the fan."

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2014 12:27 PM (/FnUH)

138 I think that Ernest Shackleton quote hits on another problem. Barrier of entry to men. There's no one doing work who comes out and says I need 10 good men. Now there are tax forms, background checks, drug checks, credentials, letters of reference, it's really hard to just start work that would bring in da women.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at March 13, 2014 12:27 PM (WdbF7)

139 You can see them thinking, "But jakeman is such a nice, friendly guy--how can he be a conservative h8er?"

Posted by: jakeman at March 13, 2014 04:25 PM (vH4YP)



This is what I love.   You can SEE their eyes   going   from   totally normal to stunned horror.   They might be people you've known for years,   friends you've had since grade school;  you've gone to their weddings,  spent time with their kids,   carpooled to work with them.   And then you tell them you're a conservative and BOOM!   Those twenty some odd years of history evaporate and you're   suddenly a monster.


It's amazing.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit [/u][/i][/s][/b] at March 13, 2014 12:27 PM (4df7R)

140

The "Coffee is for closers" speech is elite.

 

Some guy pumping your gas, is not.

Posted by: prescient11 at March 13, 2014 12:28 PM (tVTLU)

141 Isnt gravy a food group?

Posted by: Misanthopic Humanitarian at March 13, 2014 04:26 PM (HVff2)



That'd be a LOT of gravy.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit [/u][/i][/s][/b] at March 13, 2014 12:29 PM (4df7R)

142 What if you're a smart and successful guy and you don't want to bed the Kim Kardashians of the world? Where are your female peers? Not in relationships.

Because if you're a smart and successful female but don't look like the Kardashians of the world, it doesn't matter if how smart or successful you are: men won't give you the time of day.

Posted by: HR at March 13, 2014 12:29 PM (ZKzrr)

143 Posted by: Mr. I'll fuck anything that moves at March 13, 2014 04:26 PM (Aif/5) See sidebar on teh worlwide comeback of the award-winning gonorrhea.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 13, 2014 12:29 PM (659DL)

144 I know it's a bit old but Roger L. Simon had a piece up the other day in which it's clear he's more or less gone full blown libertarian. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at March 13, 2014 04:21 PM (VtjlW) Here's to hoping he gains enough wisdom to make the full transition to conservative.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 12:30 PM (bb5+k)

145 See sidebar on teh worlwide comeback of the award-winning gonorrhea.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 13, 2014 04:29 PM (659DL)



Did it ever really go away?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit [/u][/i][/s][/b] at March 13, 2014 12:30 PM (4df7R)

146 God darnit, Mr. Mamet, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore.

Posted by: Taggart at March 13, 2014 12:30 PM (VndSC)

147 OT: Please say it was an intentional act when the driver of a vehicle plowed into a large group of people in Austin. Driver's name is Rashad. Rashad Charjuan Owens.

-
Damn autocorrect!  It should read "Police say . . ."

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 13, 2014 12:30 PM (XUKZU)

148 Because if you're a smart and successful female but don't look like the Kardashians of the world, it doesn't matter if how smart or successful you are: men won't give you the time of day.

Posted by: HR at March 13, 2014 04:29 PM (ZKzrr)


Even the Kardashians don't look like the Kardashians until after a small army of stylists get them ready for the cameras.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, We Be Bossy at March 13, 2014 12:30 PM (kXoT0)

149

The guy that pumps your gas?  In1985?

Posted by: eleven at March 13, 2014 12:31 PM (fsLdt)

150 The Amundsen-Scott expedition was a feat of logistics. Ruthless logistics. They took out double provisions on the way to the pole. Along the way, they dumped off half of them, in a line, so that they would be provisioned on the way back. So all those dogs were not necessary for the return journey. But those dogs were... edible. So yeah, Amundsen-Scott, as their burden became lighter and lighter on the way to the pole, slaughtered their dogs and ate them (and fed the dogs to the dogs they were keeping alive). And they didn't do that as an emergency response; that was the plan from the start of the mission. So... you can't really make a movie out of their expedition, alas

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2014 12:31 PM (/FnUH)

151
Posted by: Mr. I'll fuck anything that moves
-
You've got to narrow it down.  That's like looking for Chin in a Chinese phone book.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 13, 2014 12:32 PM (XUKZU)

152 Even the Kardashians don't look like the Kardashians until after a small army of stylists get them ready for the cameras.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, We Be Bossy at March 13, 2014 04:30 PM (kXoT0)

 

If it takes an army, Kim's ass must have its own battalion.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 13, 2014 12:32 PM (DrWcr)

153 Even the Kardashians don't look like the Kardashians until after a small army of stylists get them ready for the cameras. Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, We Be Bossy at March 13, 2014 04:30 PM (kXoT0) I still don't get it. Stupid women--no matter how attractive--have always been sexual Kryptonite for me.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 13, 2014 12:33 PM (659DL)

154 The actual girl who will put her hand in your pants is at that moment the most attractive girl in the world. What do you mean by "actual" girl?

Posted by: That hooker in Bangkok at March 13, 2014 12:33 PM (4+AaH)

155 The past two decades of cheap sex and children growing up with only one parent has damaged society greatly, and trying to combat that is not a problem but should be a goal. Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 13, 2014 04:21 PM (CpbrP) My argument is that the Ficon relies on the Socon, but often doesn't realize it. The morality which prohibits stealing comes from the same source as other morality. If you damage the source, and you loosen all moral constraints, no society can exist with thievery as an accepted practice.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 12:33 PM (bb5+k)

156 Even the Kardashians don't look like the Kardashians until after a small army of stylists get them ready for the cameras.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, We Be Bossy at March 13, 2014 04:30 PM (kXoT0)

 

Does that come before or after the shearing ?

Posted by: The Jackhole at March 13, 2014 12:33 PM (nTgAI)

157 Those twenty some odd years of history evaporate and you're suddenly a monster. It's amazing. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit at March 13, 2014 04:27 PM (4df7R) Badonkadonk (4df7R) That's what happens when your precept of the world is more important to you than actual reality itself. Yes, I have seen people turn on other people they were gaga over previously for these reasons. Yes, it is kookoobananas. No, it is not unique to the left, but elsewhere it's a seasoning, on the left it's a staple food. The drumbeat of propaganda is so relentless that millions and millions know no other reality at all, and you *have* to become a monster based on that detail, or their entire worldview comes crashing down.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at March 13, 2014 12:34 PM (qyfb5)

158 Kardashians? Ugh..... If you had money and power I would think that those are the kind of bitches you steer clear of.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 13, 2014 12:34 PM (32Ze2)

159 Well, you also need food. And this lamp. Posted by: eleven at March 13, 2014 04:26 PM (fsLdt) I call the remote! I remember watching Oleanna (play version) and thinking that Mamet was going to end up being pushed out to the darkest regions of space for daring to question Womyn Are Always Virtuous. His realization that his worldview is more conservative than not has been a long time coming.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at March 13, 2014 12:34 PM (VtjlW)

160 141 Because if you're a smart and successful female but don't look like the Kardashians of the world, it doesn't matter if how smart or successful you are: men won't give you the time of day. Posted by: HR at March 13, 2014 04:29 PM (ZKzrr) -------------------- I don't know. (Seriously, I don't.) Do you have to look like them or just ACT like them?

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 13, 2014 12:34 PM (dfYL9)

161 >>>121 In the end, all we really NEED is shelter, fire, water, earth and air. Everything else is gravy. Posted by: Citizen X at March 13, 2014 04:21 PM (7ObY1) >>>Well, you also need food. Posted by: MWR do the rest of us a favor and cover your junk too.

Posted by: X at March 13, 2014 12:34 PM (KHo8t)

162 Why buy the Cow when you get the milk for free? The cow has untreatable gonorrhea (see sidebar). Better go for goat milk.

Posted by: wooga at March 13, 2014 12:35 PM (uGsU8)

163 Amundsen -- Ruthless logistics. Posted by: ace at March 13, 2014 04:31 PM (/FnUH)

Knew his great-grandson in the 80s and actually have a painting by the great-grandson on my living room wall.  The family hated the old guy according to this guy.  He sure did.  He said that great men who do great things don't always do well in regular life.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, We Be Bossy at March 13, 2014 12:35 PM (kXoT0)

164 If it takes an army, Kim's ass must have its own battalion. Posted by: Insomniac at March 13, 2014 04:32 PM (DrWcr) IT WON'T STOP GROWING!!!!! IT'S OUT OF CONTROL!!!!!

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at March 13, 2014 12:35 PM (u8GsB)

165 Because if you're a smart and successful female but don't look like the Kardashians of the world, it doesn't matter if how smart or successful you are: men won't give you the time of day. Posted by: HR at March 13, 2014 04:29 PM (ZKzrr) Badonkadonk (ZKzrr) Tell me about it.

Posted by: Non-Celebrity Male Nerds[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at March 13, 2014 12:35 PM (qyfb5)

166 Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 13, 2014 04:25 PM (A0sHn) Indeed, I trend libertarian on many things because while I'm tenuously holding (but losing) control of the Leviathan at the moment, it's unclear who will hold it next. Best to make sure it has limited control (again, losing control) such that when I'm not a part of the in group anymore, it cannot be wielded against me. But that doesn't eschew morality, it just means I'd prefer other means of enforcing it.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 13, 2014 12:36 PM (HDwDg)

167 the kardashians are the new gabors

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at March 13, 2014 12:36 PM (u8GsB)

168 OT: Please say it was an intentional act when the driver of a vehicle plowed into a large group of people in Austin. Driver's name is Rashad. Rashad Charjuan Owens. NOT intentional. As commonly though of as "intentional". Drunken flee from attempted po po take down for DUI.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 13, 2014 12:36 PM (t+DWU)

169 Mr. Lamp, your strawman is flaccid. There is no conflict between libertarianism and morality. Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 13, 2014 04:25 PM (A0sHn) I get differing opinions on this depending on which libertarian I might happen to be arguing with on any given day. Many simply refuse to recognize that "LAW" is codified morality.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 12:36 PM (bb5+k)

170 I see your point heather, I do. But I also see my kid with a bevy of pursuers that are on par with being future baby mamas while the smart girls are at home working on their common apps or their volunteer hours.

Posted by: NCKate at March 13, 2014 12:37 PM (y7PFk)

171 We learn from experience. Experience is someone's mistakes. To put it another way, and most of the wiser folk here know this already: You can spend a lifetime learning from your own mistakes, or you can learn from others' mistakes and avoid them in your lifetime.

Posted by: Soothsayer at March 13, 2014 12:37 PM (IW1TI)

172 >>>So all those sled-dogs were not necessary for the return journey. But those dogs were... edible. So yeah, Amundsen-Scott, as their burden became lighter and lighter on the way to the pole, slaughtered their dogs and ate them (and fed the dogs to the dogs they were keeping alive). ... Isn't this really the story of Barack Obama?

Posted by: Guy Who Likes Combining Memes at March 13, 2014 12:37 PM (/FnUH)

173 One of my take-away's from the Federalist piece is that the focus on what is important is also lost. “I remember as a young man looking at my father, a successful businessman, and thinking, ‘I don’t know anything. How am I going to matriculate into society and become self-reliant?’” Mamet said. What young man thinks like this anymore? Self-reliance? Materialism (with the underlying primitive - greed) has white washed a lot of man's moral underpinnings. Wanting to achieve versus wanting enough money to get that thing are two different things, depending on how you look at it. Many would say they are one in the same. Underneath all of those "materials" is still a primitive species. I agree. Behavior is shaped by environment, no matter what the environment. But, instinct is a constant.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 13, 2014 12:38 PM (IXrOn)

174 Do you have to look like them or just ACT like them?

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 13, 2014 04:34 PM (dfYL9)

 

You mean like narcissistic, emotionally unstable, stuck-up bitches? 

Posted by: Insomniac at March 13, 2014 12:38 PM (DrWcr)

175 I don't know that we really admire people like Shackleton less.

After all, if that one-way mars trip ever happens, you can bet we will all think of the passengers as heroes.

There is just far less need for that mentality now that we know much more about the world.  If a polar expedition can be done safely, then it should be done safely, right?  At some point, bravery crosses into stupidity, and stupidity should rarely be admired.

Not saying Shackleton was, actually, stupid, mind you, just that that same "into the unknown" bravado is in less demand now than it was at his time, because there is less that is unknown.

Posted by: mrShad at March 13, 2014 12:38 PM (C5V36)

176 The Shackleton story is from his Endurance expedition of 1914-1915. The advertisement may have been apocryphal. but the adventure was not. The most remarkable part was Shackleton and 5 others crossing the Drake Passage in a lifeboat to reach South Georgia, where there were whaling stations. That is commonly referred to as the greatest open boat journey ever made, and probably was. Shackleton possessed extraordinary qualities of leadership, but was surprisingly inept in the ordinary world. He really only came into his own in dire straits.

Posted by: JCM at March 13, 2014 12:38 PM (vPGX0)

177 Isn't this really the story of Barack Obama? I'd make a yeti joke here, but Ace would ban me.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 13, 2014 12:38 PM (659DL)

178 What I hear is that guys want smart, decent girls....but they don't. What I hear is that girls want smart, decent guys....but they don't.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 13, 2014 12:38 PM (dfYL9)

179 Cruz/Gowdy 2016

Perry/Gowdy 2016

Scott/Gowdy 2016

Or, any combination of the four. That is all. I'm in a loving Trey Gowdy mood right now.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Bossy Redneck Queen at March 13, 2014 12:38 PM (baL2B)

180 Because if you're a smart and successful female but don't look like the Kardashians of the world, it doesn't matter if how smart or successful you are: men won't give you the time of day. Posted by: HR at March 13, 2014 04:29 PM (ZKzrr) Even the Kardashians don't look like the Kardashians until after a small army of stylists get them ready for the cameras. Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, We Be Bossy at March 13, 2014 04:30 PM (kXoT0) I don't consider the Kardashians history of men and lifestyle much to be envious over. I think the men in their life realize after a month or so that none of them are very smart or successful. Success isn't always measured in money or how many sex tapes you sell.

Posted by: Jen at March 13, 2014 12:38 PM (JqB3t)

181 So... you can't really make a movie out of their expedition, alas Posted by: ace at March 13, 2014 04:31 PM (/FnUH) Well, you could, but you'd have to let Eli Roth direct it.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at March 13, 2014 12:39 PM (VtjlW)

182 and Shackleton for when the sh*t hit the fan." Posted by: ace at March 13, 2014 04:27 PM (/FnUH) Shackleton was pretty freaking amazing when everything went to shit.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 12:39 PM (bb5+k)

183

I saw a documentary on Shackleton's final expedition the other night.  As nice as the "march through South America" story would be, it wasn't quite that exciting (fortunately for the men...).  Once Shackleton's expedition got free of the Antarctic ice that they'd been trapped on, they set out on their three surviving life boats for an island about 150 miles away that had a refuge for stranded sailors.  They had to divert midway to a closer island when Shackleton realized that the men needed to have solid ground under their feet and wouldn't survive long enough to reach the island with the refuge.  They landed on the closer island, and then Shackleton rebuilt one of the life boats into a small sailing vessel and took five men with him to go to the whaling community that they'd set out from originally.  Roughly two weeks later, the half dozen men landed on the island that the community was on...  albeit on the wrong side of the island.  Shackleton and two of the men with him hiked across the uncharted interior of the island (which was *really* rough terrain) to reach the settlement (and, incidentally, experienced the "phantom fourth man" that some travelers in desperate straits have occasionally mentioned from time to time).  The three other men from the sailing vessel were picked up by ship and sent home, and Shackleton attempted to go back and retrieve the remaining men.  Unfortunately, due to the ice, it too four attempts (using a tug boat on the final attempt) to reach the island where he'd left the remaining men.

 

But every last man of the expedition survived.

 

Posted by: junior at March 13, 2014 12:39 PM (UWFpX)

184 Well, off to a meeting re establishing a 3rd women's shelter. All church sponsored/operated/maintained. War On Women!

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 13, 2014 12:39 PM (aDwsi)

185 Or, any combination of the four. That is all. I'm in a loving Trey Gowdy mood right now. Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Bossy Redneck Queen at March 13, 2014 04:38 PM (baL2B) I love Trey Gowdy too, but why does he go to Trump's hairstylist?

Posted by: Jen at March 13, 2014 12:40 PM (JqB3t)

186 And then you tell them you're a conservative and BOOM! As best I can, I try to use it as an educational experience, at least within my creative friends. (Unlike relatives, with whom I simply enjoy fighting.)

Posted by: jakeman at March 13, 2014 12:40 PM (vH4YP)

187 The Kardashians are not attractive. There, I said it.

Posted by: blaster at March 13, 2014 12:41 PM (4+AaH)

188 Shackleton possessed extraordinary qualities of leadership, but was surprisingly inept in the ordinary world. One of which was leading people into circumstances that required extraordinary qualities of leadership.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 13, 2014 12:41 PM (659DL)

189 177 What I hear is that guys want smart, decent girls....but they don't. They do. Well, the one I know does anyway.

Posted by: grammie winger at March 13, 2014 12:41 PM (oMKp3)

190 Many simply refuse to recognize that "LAW" is codified morality. --- Well, it's an awful narrow morality. The law deals with actions that,in addition to being immoral, violate the rights of another person. Murder and rape are not illegal because of their inherent morality, but because they violate the rights of the victim. Likewise, blasphemy and gossip are immoral but not illegal, because ther is no inherent right to never hear blasphemy or be gossiped about.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone and Alfie Kohn at March 13, 2014 12:42 PM (Y1Jhk)

191 See sidebar on teh worlwide comeback of the award-winning gonorrhea. Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 13, 2014 04:29 PM (659DL) Several years ago I had read that the Georgian Era was rife with promiscuity and reckless sex of every sort. People were dying of sexual transmitted diseases by the thousands. It was the backlash to that behavior which supposedly brought in the Victorian era. England rose to the pinnacle of it's power during Victoria's rule. Funny that.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 12:42 PM (bb5+k)

192 Hardly a well-thought-of figure, but Capt. Bligh was a tough SOB too.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 13, 2014 12:42 PM (aDwsi)

193 You're attempting to equate your mechanic with one of the greatest playwrights of our time, presumably because the egalitarian in you bristles at the idea that some people are qualitatively better than you are.

You don't know me.

I don't 'bristle' because [long list of athletes] play their game better than I can. I don't 'bristle' because [long list of scientists/engineers] know more than I do. I don't 'bristle' because some technician is a better tech than I am.

But when some one writes "If one tries to save the young from the rigors and traumas of life" and is showered with praise, admiration, status, and awards for something I figured out for myself forty years ago, something that has been in my internet comments for twenty years, I find it really annoying. Reagan came along and said everything I was thinking, Rush Limbaugh doesn't tell me what to think, he says what I have been thinking for most of my life.

I don't begrudge any of them their high status, but I do wonder why it has taken the rest of you so long to figure it out, and especially those of you who had to be told, and I get really annoyed everyone else who can't see the common sense of it all. 

(greatest playwrights of our time that I've never heard of, nor plays I've never seen. Sorry I missed it, but most of my life has been spent grubbing for food and shelter. So all y'all can pat yourself on the back and feel vastly superior being better educated and all. )

Posted by: Teddy (Trust me) Felch at March 13, 2014 12:43 PM (QZPtZ)

194 Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 13, 2014 04:39 PM (aDwsi) H8tr! Christianist!

Posted by: grammie winger at March 13, 2014 12:43 PM (oMKp3)

195

I'm in a loving Trey Gowdy mood right now.

 

I have half a man-crush on him, but he sort of promised an enjailening for Lois Lerner, so my feelings are hurt.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 13, 2014 12:43 PM (A0sHn)

196 Fox is reporting that the CIA has been sitting on the Benghazi investigation by direction from the State Department.  iow Scankles killed it.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at March 13, 2014 12:43 PM (T2V/1)

197 The Kardashians are made even less attractive when they flap their face holes.....

Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 13, 2014 12:43 PM (32Ze2)

198 188 got one who wants a smart girl too.

Posted by: NCKate at March 13, 2014 12:43 PM (y7PFk)

199 Zosia Mamet played the token lesbian Joyce on Mad Men. All the lesbians I know loathed her. Strangely, her younger sister Clara plays the sulky straight human teen on The Neighbors and she's lesbians' favorite ingenue. Mom was quite the butch in the movie House of Games.

Posted by: Little Miss Spellcheck at March 13, 2014 12:44 PM (a5ljo)

200 The Kardashians are not attractive.

There, I said it.\

-
Yeah, they used to be but their sell by date expired twenty years ago.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 13, 2014 12:44 PM (XUKZU)

201 I don't know. (Seriously, I don't.)
Do you have to look like them or just ACT like them?

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 13, 2014 04:34 PM (dfYL9)

 

 

--------------------------------------------

 

 

I've found that if one gets them out of the office and from their pantsuits to jeans, they're most like any other woman.  Insufferable.

 

Juuuussst kidding.  But I have had some enjoyable romps with some so-called ice-cold witches of the upper floors.

Posted by: Soona at March 13, 2014 12:44 PM (Wz9US)

202 @195. Saw on Fox sun is coming up tomorrow.

Posted by: blaster at March 13, 2014 12:44 PM (4+AaH)

203 Somewhat related:
Milt Rosenberg recently interviewed David Mamet in podcast at Ricochet.com.

Posted by: pst314 at March 13, 2014 12:44 PM (T4dRn)

204 It was the backlash to that behavior which supposedly brought in the Victorian era. England rose to the pinnacle of it's power during Victoria's rule. -------- The Victorian era was characterized by an ideal that though we are all sinners,we can all be better than we are. People strove to be better than their current station, in dress and in manners.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 13, 2014 12:45 PM (aDwsi)

205 Alas, it seems no one has ever actually found that Shackleton ad.

http://www.antarctic-circle.org/advert.htm

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 13, 2014 12:45 PM (FrfNj)

206 Speaking of sex, surprise, surprise...Buzzfeed and Pornhub take statistical data and twist it to fit an agenda that makes the South look hypocritical and backwards. Dirty fucks. http://tinyurl.com/lfdfcnp

Posted by: DangerGirl at March 13, 2014 12:45 PM (GrtrJ)

207

@174 I don't know that we really admire people like Shackleton less.

-----------------

 

I think we do, but in a somewhat roundabout fashion.  It's not that we dislike Shackleton per se.  Instead, people start to take pity on him for thinking that he could accomplish his extremely dangerous, albeit spectacular, feat.  The focus shifts away from what he managed to accomplish in bringing all of his men back alive, and more toward thinking him foolish for having attempted it in the first place.

 

Posted by: junior at March 13, 2014 12:46 PM (UWFpX)

208

Alas, it seems no one has ever actually found that Shackleton ad.

 

Sounds like something Twain would have written.  Maybe too  good  to be true.

Posted by: eleven at March 13, 2014 12:47 PM (fsLdt)

209 89 But when the elite try to tell me something I already know, wrapping it up in big words like it's some revelation, I find it annoying. Tell me something I don't know, something that's useful to me. Cows have four stomachs.

Posted by: gewa76 at March 13, 2014 12:48 PM (k8m83)

210 I beg to differ. The actual girl who will put her hand in your pants is at that moment the most attractive girl in the world. Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 13, 2014 04:20 PM (A0sHn) Badonkadonk (A0sHn) I don't really qualify to give a great deal of advice on this subject, but unless there was something *horribly* offensive about the situation or the person, this would work just fine. There are a lot of guys who are shy or have been burned or whatever, who just aren't going to flash it everywhere. Tradition says he has to take the initiative, that's just not always going to happen. Obviously this is not going to work with movie stars or rock stars or their lookalikes, they're doing just fine. But especially in the world of harassment suits and restraining orders, most guys are not going to jump unless A) you're a 10+, or B) you say "jump." I get Heather, I really do - in some ways I'm the male version of her. And I really, *really* like smart girls. And smart girls like Johnny Depp, Chris Hemsworth and whoever. Basically there's what you can do, what you can't, and dumb-ass luck. Some people aren't clear on the first two and don't have the third.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at March 13, 2014 12:49 PM (qyfb5)

211 I love a story told of Mark Twain.  He was in Europe being greeted and feted.  And a Utopian starts to tell him how wonderful the future will be in Utopia.  Mark Twain listened to the whole spiel and then said, "Sounds like a bunch of cows after the last coyote been shot."

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 13, 2014 12:51 PM (o9ypU)

212

Shackleton made it to South Georgia Island, a whaling station,   with a few of his crew, having left the rest on Elephant Island, IIRC

 

Then, instead of resting,   he went back with the  rescue crew to retrieve the men he had left on Elephant island

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 13, 2014 12:51 PM (CpbrP)

213 Some people have the ability to get into a calm zone when everything is in chaos or everyone else is panicking. It is usually innate but it can be learned.

Posted by: Rob Banks at March 13, 2014 12:51 PM (ODr92)

214 I think we do, but in a somewhat roundabout fashion. It's not that we dislike Shackleton per se. Instead, people start to take pity on him for thinking that he could accomplish his extremely dangerous, albeit spectacular, feat. The focus shifts away from what he managed to accomplish in bringing all of his men back alive, and more toward thinking him foolish for having attempted it in the first place.

Posted by: junior at March 13, 2014 04:46 PM (UWFpX)

 

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

 

Much like the changing mentality of the nation at the time of Apollo 13.

Posted by: Soona at March 13, 2014 12:52 PM (Wz9US)

215 Well, it's an awful narrow morality. Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone and Alfie Kohn at March 13, 2014 04:42 PM (Y1Jhk) It's not narrow at all. People are constantly adding provisions to the Official Morality of the state. My point is to address the eternal Libertarian comment that "You can't legislate morality." Yes you can, it's called "Laws." That's what Laws are. Officially codified morality. Don't want to rent to Homosexuals? Too Bad. The Law forces you to conform to the official morality.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 12:53 PM (bb5+k)

216 Fox is reporting that the CIA has been sitting on the Benghazi investigation by direction from the State Department. iow Scankles killed it.

Posted by: Vic at March 13, 2014 04:43 PM (T2V/1)




Cue Captain Renault

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 13, 2014 12:53 PM (1Jaio)

217 Cows have four stomachs.

Posted by: gewa76 at March 13, 2014 04:48 PM (k8m83)


Dude! Ima country boy! Cows are little more than fertilizer factories. The milk is a side line. That's why the Feds pay milk price support payments.

Posted by: Teddy (Trust me) Felch at March 13, 2014 12:54 PM (QZPtZ)

218 Serendipitously, we just watched Heist last night. Always have a backup plan. Or three.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 13, 2014 12:55 PM (WX3R9)

219

Basically there's what you can do, what you can't, and dumb-ass luck. Some people aren't clear on the first two and don't have the third.

 

Yeah, the point I was making was in reply to the claim that 10,000 pron hotties (if there is such a thing ) dull the senses and make the real thing pale in comparison.

 

The point you make is in some ways Mamet's.  The world operates by its own rules and doesn't care about your feelings.  The sexual calculus which drives long or short term relationships includes looks, success, whim, fancy, and douchebaggery. 

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 13, 2014 12:55 PM (A0sHn)

220 Reagan came along and said everything I was thinking, Rush Limbaugh doesn't tell me what to think, he says what I have been thinking for most of my life. Posted by: Teddy (Trust me) Felch at March 13, 2014 04:43 PM (QZPtZ) I thought that might have been your point. It's certainly the way I took your commentary.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 12:55 PM (bb5+k)

221 "113 In the end, all we really NEED is shelter, fire, water, earth and air."

And this ashtray. That's all I need. And this lamp.

Posted by: The Jerk at March 13, 2014 12:55 PM (1Rgee)

222 Is it a Leg-lamp in fishnet?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 13, 2014 12:56 PM (o9ypU)

223 UNITED NATIONS - The US ambassador to the United Nations says more than 20,000 Russian troops are in Crimea before a referendum on Sunday that could separate the peninsula from Ukraine and merge it with Russia. Ambassador Samantha Power said the United States and other nations "call for the suspension of this referendum, which cannot be regarded as legitimate, especially against the background of foreign military intervention." Power said "Russian forces must return to their bases." (AP) Samantha Powers is as stupid as her boss

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 13, 2014 12:56 PM (t3UFN)

224 Gah, memory failure. Just this last week, I read an article about this very phenomenon- and there was this great Greek (I think, maybe German) word for- "the necessary pain of experience". About what a disservice it is to deny young people "the necessary pain of experience' in trying to smooth their path too much. I think it was in relation to Obama and AA in general. If any other moron read it, what's the word?

Posted by: naturalfake at March 13, 2014 12:56 PM (0cMkb)

225 The Victorian era was characterized by an ideal that though we are all sinners,we can all be better than we are. People strove to be better than their current station, in dress and in manners. Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 13, 2014 04:45 PM (aDwsi) And Men like Shackleton were produced.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 12:56 PM (bb5+k)

226 > What I hear is that guys want smart, decent girls....but they don't.
> What I hear is that girls want smart, decent guys....but they don't.

Smart is awesome. The kind of smart person who spends most of their time telling people how brilliant they are, and how everything the rest of the world thinks or does is wrong, not so much.

Can't say anything bad about decent.

It seems like a lot of people, when they say they want a nice, smart, decent person who treats them well, mean they want those qualities in a person they're already attracted to physically.  People they aren't attracted to are basically invisible as a potential partner, so they don't even bother looking deeper for those qualities until they possibly come to that realization.

My wife isn't the most beautiful woman I ever dated based purely on physical appearance, but she is kind, thoughtful, forgiving, nurturing, and possibly most importantly, she puts up with me and loves me as I am, and that is beauty that doesn't fade.

Posted by: Lemmenkainen, Freelance Warlord at March 13, 2014 12:57 PM (ZWvOb)

227

>>>Posted by: Teddy (Trust me) Felch at March 13, 2014 04:43 PM (QZPtZ)

 

See, if you were as naturally gifted and adept at philosophy as you seem to think you are, I'd expect you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss writers like Mamet.

Posted by: Paul at March 13, 2014 12:58 PM (9qDRl)

228 The sexual calculus which drives long or short term relationships includes looks, success, whim, fancy, and douchebaggery. Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 13, 2014 04:55 PM (A0sHn) Badonkadonk (A0sHn) I depend on whim and fancy, but they seem to be out of fashion these days.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at March 13, 2014 12:58 PM (qyfb5)

229 I get Heather, I really do - in some ways I'm the male version of her. And I really, *really* like smart girls. And smart girls like Johnny Depp, Chris Hemsworth and whoever.  Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at March 13, 2014 04:49 PM (qyfb5)

I happen to be a smart girl and I think a relationship with a Johnny Depp would be a horror show.  There are two qualities that I look for in a guy:

1) Is he a Real Man?
2) Smarts.

Looking for a Real Man was a natural--My Dad, Uncles (with one notable exception), my Grandpas, etc. were all Real Men.  Smarts because I don't want to be bored.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, We Be Bossy at March 13, 2014 12:59 PM (kXoT0)

230 As Western leaders prepare a bailout package for embattled Ukraine, they face a startling irony: Thanks to the almost bizarre structure of a bond deal between Ukraine and Russia, billions of those dollars are almost certain to go directly into the coffers of the Putin government. As CNBC has reported, some aid money is bound to go into Russia as a result of energy trade and other economic factors. But the situation is actually much more acute than just that: An existing agreement between the two countries makes an immediate, direct transfer from Ukraine to Russia legally enforceable. Pretty much what I have been saying all along. Hey I got an idea, DON'T FUCKIN GIVE THEM THE MONEY

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 13, 2014 01:00 PM (t3UFN)

231 The sexual calculus which drives long or short term relationships includes looks, success, whim, fancy, and douchebaggery.

Alcohol fits in there somewhere.

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 13, 2014 01:00 PM (FrfNj)

232 D-Lamp, you're not getting me. Defining law as "codified morality" leads to a narrow definition of morality. That definition would be "if it violates another person's rights, it is immoral. If it doesn't violate someone's rights, it is not immoral". I accept that violating another person's rights is, itself, immoral, BUT lots of other.things that don't violate anyone's rights (and therefore fall outside the realm of law) are also immoral. So, that's why I don't think of law as simply codified moraliy. Because it's not.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone and Alfie Kohn at March 13, 2014 01:00 PM (Y1Jhk)

233 228 I married that.

Posted by: NCKate at March 13, 2014 01:01 PM (y7PFk)

234 Malaysia insulting China. Interesting.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 13, 2014 01:01 PM (ZPrif)

235 225 --- Good post.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 13, 2014 01:01 PM (dfYL9)

236 mean they want those qualities in a person they're already attracted to physically. Posted by: Lemmenkainen, Freelance Warlord at March 13, 2014 04:57 PM (ZWvOb) Badonkadonk (ZWvOb) And usually there's an unstated additional list, but largely this.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at March 13, 2014 01:02 PM (qyfb5)

237 gewa76 at March 13, 2014 04:48 PM (k8m83)
----------------------------------
OH ya, and that reminds me. Cows get more nutrition from dissolving the bacteria that lives in their gut than they do from the plant matter. Most of the plant matter passes right through their digestive system. Horses are better converters than cows.

So what is Mamet's opinion of artificial fertilizer made from NatGas?

Posted by: Teddy (Trust me) Felch at March 13, 2014 01:02 PM (QZPtZ)

238 228 I married that.

Posted by: NCKate at March 13, 2014 05:01 PM (y7PFk)


So did I.  Current guy is that.  It really is that simple.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, We Be Bossy at March 13, 2014 01:02 PM (kXoT0)

239 The drumbeat of propaganda is so relentless that millions and millions know no other reality at all, An article on how Putin's ham-fisted stupid propaganda actually works. And quite well, mind you. http://tinyurl.com/mdxse5a

Posted by: AmishDude at March 13, 2014 01:02 PM (T0NGe)

240 My wife isn't the most beautiful woman I ever dated based purely on physical appearance, but she is kind, thoughtful, forgiving, nurturing, and possibly most importantly, she puts up with me and loves me as I am, and that is beauty that doesn't fade. Posted by: Lemmenkainen, Freelance Warlord at March 13, 2014 04:57 PM (ZWvOb) Amen, I can relate. I kid my wife, she married me it was "Be Kind To Dumb Animals Week"

Posted by: Misanthopic Humanitarian at March 13, 2014 01:02 PM (HVff2)

241 I think that's enough emotional baring for one day.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at March 13, 2014 01:04 PM (qyfb5)

242 “I wouldn’t even tie my shoes without a backup plan.”

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 13, 2014 01:04 PM (WX3R9)

243 “What is college? Nothing. Students learn five recognition symbols that make them comfortable in conversation with other people who know nothing. And they don’t realize that they’ve learned to rely too much on others.” Hard to argue with that, but I would think that that does not apply, as much, to the hard sciences. Very smart man, Mamet.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at March 13, 2014 01:04 PM (71K6B)

244 237 Absolutely. And why our son is looking for the same type of relationship that he saw growing up.

Posted by: NCKate at March 13, 2014 01:04 PM (y7PFk)

245 Your apt I,Claudius quote for today: "The only lions left are in the arena."

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 13, 2014 01:05 PM (eiJIn)

246 That was a good read.

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 13, 2014 01:05 PM (Iyg03)

247 New post up.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, We Be Bossy at March 13, 2014 01:06 PM (kXoT0)

248 My wife isn't the most beautiful woman I ever dated based purely on physical appearance, but she is kind, thoughtful, forgiving, nurturing, and possibly most importantly, she puts up with me and loves me as I am, and that is beauty that doesn't fade.

Posted by: Lemmenkainen, Freelance Warlord at March 13, 2014 04:57 PM (ZWvOb)


I knew you thought Jennifer was prettier than I was, you son of a bitch!

Posted by: Lemmenkainen's Wife, Freelance Warlordette at March 13, 2014 01:07 PM (Kkt/i)

249 231 D-Lamp, you're not getting me. Defining law as "codified morality" leads to a narrow definition of morality. That definition would be "if it violates another person's rights, it is immoral. If it doesn't violate someone's rights, it is not immoral". I accept that violating another person's rights is, itself, immoral, BUT lots of other.things that don't violate anyone's rights (and therefore fall outside the realm of law) are also immoral. So, that's why I don't think of law as simply codified moraliy. Because it's not. Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone and Alfie Kohn at March 13, 2014 05:00 PM (Y1Jhk) We are talking past each other. Let's try an example. A man and woman create some children. Neither work to support them and they end up living off the state. Is there a victim, and therefore immorality by your calculus? Libertarians tend to think of victims as near and immediate. They seldom consider the larger picture of other's being victimized into paying for other people's stupid behavior. And what of the children who will likely grow up without a father present in their lives? Are they victims by your definition?

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 01:07 PM (bb5+k)

250 > I knew you thought Jennifer was prettier than I was, you son of a bitch!

> Posted by: Lemmenkainen's Wife, Freelance Warlordette at March 13, 2014 05:07 PM (Kkt/i)


I snorted coffee, damn you!!

Posted by: Lemmenkainen, Freelance Warlord at March 13, 2014 01:08 PM (ZWvOb)

251 230 The sexual calculus which drives long or short term relationships includes looks, success, whim, fancy, and douchebaggery. Alcohol fits in there somewhere. Posted by: Waterhouse at March 13, 2014 05:00 PM (FrfNj) It's implied, isn't it?

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at March 13, 2014 01:08 PM (71K6B)

252 I have dated more objectively attractive women than my wife, but none smarter.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 13, 2014 01:09 PM (ZshNr)

253 David Mamet is part of the REASON the culture is so empty and destroyed.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 13, 2014 01:10 PM (zfY+H)

254 Don't want to rent to Homosexuals? Too Bad. The Law forces you to conform to the official morality. Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 04:53 PM (bb5+k) Morality stems from an internal Moral System... it is an internal behavior control system. Laws control behavior.... they do not force morality... Which is why, a Law which attempts to force morality, is doomed to failure. Prime examples... underage drinking. Pot. Hell.... even the immigration laws... They are ignored because they believe they will not get caught, and because those who break said laws, do not have a moral obligation not to do the act. If I choose not to service a Homosexual in my business??? I will just tell them I am too busy... and there will be NO way they can prove otherwise. Thus... without my own moral code... even though the law said otherwise... I could EASILY not serve Homosexuals...

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 13, 2014 01:10 PM (84gbM)

255 Wow.... and once again a thread devolves to a Bash the Libertarian Heretic thread... How amusing...

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 13, 2014 01:11 PM (84gbM)

256 Mamet is smart and his remarks about   making a living in order to get laid seem to make common sense, but  they just don't  hold up to scrutiny. There are plenty of decent-looking  guys with good jobs who can't get laid in a woman's prison with a handful of pardons. And  there are also scores of young men without any jobs or  prospects running amok siring multiple babies with multiple  women.  It's worse today of course, but it was always like that to a certain extent. Mamet also overlooks the idea that the nurturing love of a good woman is often what spurns a man to great things in the first place. Women have always taken a shot on seeming losers ( I'm not talking about the thuggish criminal types) because they were good-looking or whatever and molded them into good providers.

Posted by: JoeyBagels at March 13, 2014 01:11 PM (QEXqi)

257 I've always admired Mamet's turn toward conservatism, probably because it was so sudden and shocking. Here's a former liberal who had the intellect and sense to stop and think about both sides, draw conclusions, and then actually change his own self based on his reflections.

That's fucking huge!

How many other people can honestly say they could do what he did?

Posted by: EC at March 13, 2014 03:52 PM (GQ8sn)



 

I did when I was 16 years old.  I saw the disaster of the kind, caring, peaceful Liberal Democrats made out of South Vietnam.  After losing 50,000 US men, they turned their back on the Vietnamese, by starving them of arms and ammo. 

 

I saw the "poor peasant army" of the NVA run their mechanized heavy armored divisions through South Vietnam, just like the panzers of the German Army.  

 

And now I see the Democrats doing the same to our victory in Iraq.  How many Iraqis are dying in bombings and sectarian violence?  How many Sunni are turning to Al-Qaeda, and how many Shia to Iran's Al Qods and Revolutionary Guards. 

 

And they are planning to do the same in Afghanistan.  Cut and Run from their "War of Necessity." 

 

Bastards.  All of them are Bastards. 

Posted by: rd at March 13, 2014 01:12 PM (D+lxs)

258 In the late 90's I got an up close look at Shackleton's sea faring lifeboat (it was stored in the warehouse of my employer). That thing was tiny. How Ernest and 17 or 18 other men could even fit in it I'll never know. I'm assuming most of the space in the boat was taken up by their gonads, because they had to be huge.

Posted by: billy sastard at March 13, 2014 01:12 PM (VDovR)

259 219 Reagan came along and said everything I was thinking, Rush Limbaugh doesn't tell me what to think, he says what I have been thinking for most of my life. Posted by: Teddy (Trust me) Felch at March 13, 2014 04:43 PM (QZPtZ) --------- I thought that might have been your point. It's certainly the way I took your commentary. Posted by: D-Lamp I thought the point of Ace's post was that Mamet gets it as opposed to the "Havahd Limosine Liberals" who read about life. It seemed to me that most everyone, or at least many of us were agreeing with you Teddy. I dunno why you are ticked off. Mamet started out an idiot but overcame his own Left wing environment. And we applaud that. Plus he's a gooder writer than some of us.

Posted by: Daybrother at March 13, 2014 01:13 PM (9N1wl)

260 Power said "Russian forces must return to their bases." (AP) Samantha Powers is as stupid as her boss Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 13, 2014 04:56 PM (t3UFN) All your (Crimean) bases belong to US!!!!

Posted by: Vlad Putin, via text, to Sam (no) Powers at March 13, 2014 01:15 PM (84gbM)

261 The ability to bullshit counts a lot toward whether or not a  man gets laid, six-figure income, or no income....

Posted by: JoeyBagels at March 13, 2014 01:16 PM (QEXqi)

262 259. I swear these people are going to get us into a war that will make the Bush/Cheney Wars for Oil look like  a friendly game of touch football....

Posted by: JoeyBagels at March 13, 2014 01:18 PM (QEXqi)

263 Again, D-Lamp, you're not getting me. Yes, I think it's immoral to have children that you cannot yourself support. Whether Grandma or the state ends up picking up your slack, it's immoral. I think it's immoral, too, to feed your kid soda on a daily basis or to put a toddler to bed with a bottle of juice, or to talk trash about the child's father/other relatives in front of the child. Yes, those children are victims under my understanding of morality. The law, however, can't recognize those children as victims. So I refuse to accept the idea that law is only or primarily codified morality. Most immoral actions are well outside the scope of law, and should be.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone and Alfie Kohn at March 13, 2014 01:20 PM (Y1Jhk)

264 In the article I wish he would have talked more about 19 year old boys being jaded about sex. I think that's true for a lot of them (girls too). Is porn inevitable because a) it's so easily accessible now and b) people need different, out of the ordinary in order to satisfy themselves? When you've done EVERYTHING in high school what's next?

Posted by: Seems legit at March 13, 2014 01:22 PM (A98Xu)

265 Morality stems from an internal Moral System... it is an internal behavior control system. Disagree. Morality is an external behavior control system evolved by experience for the purpose of protecting/securing life. Laws control behavior.... they do not force morality... And the distinction is? Which is why, a Law which attempts to force morality, is doomed to failure. Utter nonsense. Anti-Discrimination laws are perfect examples of forced morality and they are complete successes. Apart from that, there is a normative force to the law. It persuades a significant percentage of the population simply because it *IS* the law. Prime examples... underage drinking. Pot. Hell.... even the immigration laws... They are ignored because they believe they will not get caught, and because those who break said laws, do not have a moral obligation not to do the act. And this is because the law is not enforced. Were it enforced, it would modify such behavior. You are right to the extent that if people feel no moral compulsion to obey the law, they won't. Edmund Burke pointed this out over two hundred years ago. "The use of force alone is but temporary. It may subdue for a moment; but it does not remove the necessity of subduing again: and a nation is not governed, which is perpetually to be conquered." If I choose not to service a Homosexual in my business??? I will just tell them I am too busy... and there will be NO way they can prove otherwise. You are avoiding confrontation, and you are also avoiding the point. You are sneaking around the law, not blatantly defying it. You wouldn't be allowed to blatantly defy it, they would force that morality on you whether you liked it or not. Thus... without my own moral code... even though the law said otherwise... I could EASILY not serve Homosexuals... Posted by: Romeo13 at March 13, 2014 05:10 PM (84gbM) No you couldn't. Those two who got that baker in trouble supposedly shopped around until they found one who wouldn't bake their dick cake. They TARGETED him. If they TARGETED you, you would end up in the same situation.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 01:23 PM (bb5+k)

266 Gah. No, by definition, morals are internal. External forces are laws, rules and ethics. Those external forces usually reflect the morals of the majority of people who are governed by them, but that's it.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone and Alfie Kohn at March 13, 2014 01:26 PM (Y1Jhk)

267 The law, however, can't recognize those children as victims. So I refuse to accept the idea that law is only or primarily codified morality. Most immoral actions are well outside the scope of law, and should be. Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone and Alfie Kohn at March 13, 2014 05:20 PM (Y1Jhk) You really aren't understanding the point. Law *IS* morality. It is a set of rules governing right and wrong as decided by lawmakers. All laws are legislated morality. You are making a distinction between what YOU subjectively regard as morality, and what the state enforces as official morality. You aren't grasping the fact that other people's notions of morality don't conform to YOUR notions of morality. You aren't looking at the concept broadly enough, which is again, a problem I have always had with Libertarians. They think their subjective opinion about what constitutes "Morality" is objective, and it isn't.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 01:28 PM (bb5+k)

268

#10  "How many other people can honestly say they could do what he did?"

He analyzed the choices and made the conscious choice to turn away from liberalism and toward conservatism, and yes, that is worthy of respect. And it's also worth noting that he did it in a segment of society that is particularly unforgiving of anything remotely unleftist.

 

Sure, having been hugely successful does take the edge off, but it would certainly have been the easier road for him to just keep drinking the kool-aid and keep getting the posh party invites from the swells and cognoscenti.

 

I admire the guy. Wish there were more out there like him with the introspection to think things out and the courage to change.



 

Posted by: RM at March 13, 2014 01:29 PM (fRppw)

269 And even when they got that far, they had a long slog back to actual civilization. *** Don't we all, Ace, don't we all?

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at March 13, 2014 01:31 PM (g4TxM)

270 265 Gah. No, by definition, morals are internal. External forces are laws, rules and ethics. Those external forces usually reflect the morals of the majority of people who are governed by them, but that's it. Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone and Alfie Kohn at March 13, 2014 05:26 PM (Y1Jhk) I don't think you grasp where "Morality" comes from. It is a function of social dynamics. It is a function of history and experience. It *IS* external forces shaping the behavior of communities. Morality evolved as a survival mechanism. That is what it is.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 13, 2014 01:33 PM (bb5+k)

271 D-Lamp. Of course I get that other people's notions of morality are not my own. Hence, I said above that your notion of law as "codified morality" would lead to a narrow notion of morality, one narrower than my own. What I'm trying to get across to you is this---when making a law prohibiting an action, the question isn't "is this action moral?" but "does this violate someone's rights?". The Muslim might find the murder of his non-virgin daughter perfectly moral, but the law recognizes her right to remain unharmed.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone and Alfie Kohn at March 13, 2014 01:42 PM (Y1Jhk)

272 Late to the party...

13 Isn't his daughter on "Girls"?
Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at March 13, 2014 03:52 PM (WdbF7)

Yep, Zosia. Would LOVE to be a fly on the wall if he, his daughter and Lena ever talked life and politics in the same room. Popcorn would be needed.

“Part of the matriculation process for a young man has always been”, Mamet continued, “I don’t know how to make a living, but I better figure it out or I’m never going to get laid. When you take that away, you take away the strongest goad he will ever experience in his life.”

This could almost be an indictment of the male characters on Girls, little boys playing at being men. I'd love his take on the show, but it is probably wise of him to keep mum.

Posted by: LizLem at March 13, 2014 01:47 PM (BF+2f)

273 I totally agree with Mamet's tragic view. The youth have been protected by that knowledge but it will come one day no matter what.

I also agree on the juvenile matriculation rites we now have. Instead of signing up for an expedition like Shackelton's or enlisting in the military, our elites travel around the world and bungee jump off tall objects. It's "fun", but it has no context except that. It's adventure porn.

Posted by: pj at March 13, 2014 01:50 PM (ZWaLo)

274 Shit.  I'm sorry I missed this before it was a dead thread.


David Mamet's IQ is larger than the cumulative IQ all all the Hollywood liberals combined.

Thus, actually, Hollywood, when measured on a "brain power" scale, does not tilt left at all. His one braisn out-weighs all of theirs.

Posted by: zombie at March 13, 2014 04:05 PM (mizYg)



Mamet is untouchable by the libs because he's been lionized by them for such a long time that even with their ADD it would be unpossible for them to go off the reservation.  Plus if some asswipe badmouthed him he'd live in constant fear of ostracism, being ignored or possibly being satirized in a future play; all of which would be intolerable to the lib hive mind.

Posted by: Captain Hate at March 13, 2014 02:04 PM (1Uk4x)

275 From the introduction to Killing Rommel by Steven Pressfield: "'Only men who do not mind a hard life, with scanty food, little water and lots of discomfort, men who possess stamina and initiative, need apply.' --from the initial British Army circular, North Africa, summer 1940, seeking volunteers for what would become the Long Range Desert Group" I never got into that book like I did Gates of Fire (one of my all-time favorites) but I do remember that in North Africa it was up to 140 degrees inside the tanks. I contrast those soldiers in my mind to my soft, pudgy, pasty white, video-game-and-manga-addicted, refuses to learn to fix anything because "I can just call someone to do it", hates to go outside 20-something nephew, and I weep.

Posted by: Republic of Texas 2: Electric Boogaloo at March 13, 2014 02:09 PM (Gk2GE)

276 Funny.... I'm in Dublin Ireland on vacation and going to the Shackleton museum tomorrow.

Posted by: beerologist at March 13, 2014 02:36 PM (8Bxt1)

277 I think they ultimately used rowboats, paddling through the open polar ocean, to make their way to the southernmost tip of South America. They actually set out for South Georgia Island, and a lot of credit for them reaching it goes to navigator Frank Worsley.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at March 13, 2014 03:05 PM (vd7A8)

278 Recently watched a fabulous show (I think on PBS) where a crew recreated Shackletons journey using authentic recreations of the boats used, same navigational aids, even the saem clothing they wore. They had one boat from the Australian navy keeping track of where they were but had strict instructions not ot interfere unless it was requested. it has to be seen to be believed. The ocean crossing was extremely difficult but once they reached So Georgia Island, they had to cross snow covered mountains without any of the kind of specialized winter gear used today. There are 3 chapters. It was called Chasing Shackleton and it was on PBS.

Posted by: Sharon at March 13, 2014 03:19 PM (4OHj3)

279 Thus it began, the new golden age of conservatism.

Posted by: bopiddy at March 13, 2014 03:55 PM (P1VPw)

280 "Endurance: Shackleton's Incredible Voyage" by Alfred Lansing is a great book describing this truly amazing voyage. It is one of the best books on leadership you could ever find.

Posted by: jimmy page's ax at March 13, 2014 04:51 PM (MpnLF)

281 "But what he did then was amazing: he led his crew back to safety, despite impossible odds. I think they ultimately used rowboats, paddling through the open polar ocean, to make their way to the southernmost tip of South America. And even when they got that far, they had a long slog back to actual civilization."

Others have pointed out that he went from Elephant Island, off the tip of the Palmer Penninsula, to South Georgia - an
absolutely amazing feat of navigation. He took five men with him - Worsley, a sea captain and master navigator, Tom Crean, an able seaman, and three others. The boat, however, landed on the west shore of South Georgia, while the whaling station that they had to reach was on the eastern side. Their boat was no longer seaworthy, so Shackleton, Worsley, and Crean crossed the mountains of South Georgia - some of the ruggedest in the world - on foot, equipped with only a carpenter's adze, a few yards of rope, and some spikes that they screwed into the soles of their shoes. It was a phenomenally brave accomplishment.

Shackleton's book, "South", is well worth reading, as is Hunsford's biography of him. Alfred Lansing's book, "Endurance", is well worth reading. He wrote it in 1952, and was able to interview most of the surviving members of the expedition: a terrific read.

Trivia fact: Shackleton attended Dulwich College, which was also the alma mater of P. G. Wodehouse and Raymond Chandler: same planet, very different worlds.

Posted by: Brown Line at March 13, 2014 04:52 PM (a5bF3)

282 When Newton was in his early 20s, he invented calculus. Keats and Shelley wrote some of the world's greatest poems in their 20s. Meanwhile, Pajama Boy is just trying to stay insured so he can drink cocoa all day....

Posted by: bleck at March 13, 2014 05:07 PM (b6Qog)

283 And as I recall, Shackleton didn't lose a single man on that Antarctic exploration.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at March 14, 2014 07:53 AM (BDU/a)

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