Ace of Spades HQ

November 21, 2013

Death Spiral Watch: California Also Enrolling Mostly Older Folks in Obamacare
— Ace

Per @verumserum's article at Breitbart, Obama is hoping for Obamacare enrollees to make up 38% of the total, because young enrollees will pay more in premiums than they are expected to take out of the system.

The young and healthy are thus the keys to subsidizing the whole Risky Scheme.

And in "success story" California?

The young, 18-34, only make up 23% of the pool.

That's not good.

Plus, the enrollees skew pretty old:

The report released Thursday by Covered California, which operates the online exchange, shows that 56 percent of the 30,830 people who had enrolled in plans by Oct. 31 were in the 45- to 64-year-old category.

Furthermore: We don't know if the few young people enrolling are young and healthy. We merely know they're young. If they're young and unhealthy, then they don't subsidize anything at all -- then they're net takers out of the system, and they will speed it towards fiscal meltdown.

It seems likely to me that the young people singing up for Obamacare skew towards the unhealthy side of things.

So it seems likely that Obamacare is not only not signing up enough young people, but among the young people it is signing up, it's not signing up nearly enough of the right kind of young people -- healthy ones, those who will subsidize everyone else.

Oh and one more thing: Any young person getting a large subsidy obviously isn't subsidizing anyone else. So what Obamacare really needs is enrollees who are

1, young,

2, healthy,

and 3, making enough money to pay almost full freight.

So far we know they're not getting enough young people, period. I doubt they're doing much better on points 2 and 3.

Thanks to @johnekdahl.

Posted by: Ace at 12:07 PM | Comments (281)
Post contains 310 words, total size 2 kb.

1 Sick.

Posted by: Chinese capacitors at November 21, 2013 12:08 PM (aDwsi)

2 But fast on my feet.

Posted by: Chinese capacitors at November 21, 2013 12:08 PM (aDwsi)

It also doesn't help that there are just plain fewer young people than their used to be. The boomers didn't have as many kids as previous generations did...

And that's now coming back to bite them.

Lower percentages of young people signing up wouldn't be as big of a problem if there were more young people to draw that low percentage from.

Posted by: junior at November 21, 2013 12:09 PM (UWFpX)

4 Screwed by own chink sock

Posted by: Screwed by own sock..., again at November 21, 2013 12:09 PM (aDwsi)

5 This is a math test. Who said there would be math involved?

Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at November 21, 2013 12:09 PM (oDCMR)

6 A couple of other questions.... How many of these folks HAD insurance, but are no signing up because theirs got cancelled... And what percentage are getting subsidies....

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 21, 2013 12:10 PM (lZBBB)

7 Just love Olive View Hospital... waits of four to five hours AFTER appointment time is the norm... acts like it's own rationing.

Posted by: Ktnxbye, now in Ptown at November 21, 2013 12:11 PM (RPDkq)

8 Not signing up for ~~Obamacare~~ the ACA, is unpatriotic.

Posted by: Nanci Pelosi, Noted Patriot at November 21, 2013 12:11 PM (aDwsi)

9 I would wager most are illegal aliens.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 21, 2013 12:11 PM (IXrOn)

10 Yet another California coffin nail. How many is this state going to need before it just goes toes-up? The fact that it takes so many (unfunded public-employee pensions, illegals, bloated government, Jerry Brown) and it's not dead yet is a testimony to how strong this state once was.

Posted by: Keith Arnold at November 21, 2013 12:11 PM (DMtT+)

11 Field of Dreams is not a blueprint for nationalizing health coverage.

Posted by: grognard at November 21, 2013 12:11 PM (/29Nl)

12 This is shocking and unexpected.

Posted by: toby928© insists on talking about robots at November 21, 2013 12:12 PM (QupBk)

13 but the weather's nice like Greece here in Califorlornia...

Posted by: Ktnxbye, now in Ptown at November 21, 2013 12:12 PM (RPDkq)

This is the time, children, when we point and laugh.

*points at California*

*laughs*

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/i][/u] at November 21, 2013 12:12 PM (4df7R)

15 Death Spiral Watch: California Also Enrolling Mostly Older Folks in Obamacare #Onward!

Posted by: rickb223 at November 21, 2013 12:12 PM (ix+5k)

16 Young people don't have any fucking money! How the fuck can they these crazy prices!? Have you checked the young people employment numbers lately?

Posted by: Dan at November 21, 2013 12:12 PM (gR5OX)

17 The fact that it takes so many (unfunded public-employee pensions, illegals, bloated government, Jerry Brown) and it's not dead yet is a testimony to how strong this state once was. --- Apply the same thinking to New York City, especially when DeBlasio chases the 30,000+ who were paying for all the city services to Florida.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 21, 2013 12:12 PM (/Crba)

18 You know, I can still get rid of California for ya if you like?

Posted by: Lex Luthor at November 21, 2013 12:13 PM (NE2or)

19 It isn't the death spiral of California I am watching, it is the death spiral of the US

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at November 21, 2013 12:13 PM (AX3vC)

20 This is shocking and unexpected. Posted by: toby928 ------------- Turns out there are not as many shovel-ready young people as we expected.

Posted by: Barky at November 21, 2013 12:14 PM (aDwsi)

Ultimately it's #3 that's going to break the back of this thing. All we're seeing is Medicaid Expansion.

No ship floats higher when all it's shipping is ballast.

Posted by: RobM1981 at November 21, 2013 12:14 PM (FgxCS)

22 #Winning!

Posted by: California at November 21, 2013 12:14 PM (QupBk)

23 Turns out there are not as many shovel-ready young people as we expected. --- Shovel-ready older people, though? We've got enough of them.

Posted by: JEF at November 21, 2013 12:14 PM (/Crba)

24 Gosh. Next thing you know, you're going to try to tell me that people act in their own self-interest - amirite? wingnut?

Posted by: LIV at November 21, 2013 12:14 PM (U4GjV)

25 California - come for the weather, stay for the early released felons and cons! Re-alignment! Si se puede!11

Posted by: Ktnxbye, now in Ptown at November 21, 2013 12:15 PM (RPDkq)

26 Welcome to the Hotel California

Posted by: Mike Hammer at November 21, 2013 12:15 PM (aDwsi)

27 I'd like a flaming skull of Professor Farnsworth for these posts, complete with "Good News!" before each part of bad news about ObamaCare

Posted by: Austin in TX at November 21, 2013 12:15 PM (3cp3C)

28 Obama is hoping for Obamacare enrollees to make up 38% of the total, because young enrollees will pay more in premiums than they are expected to take out of the system. The young and healthy are thus the keys to subsidizing the whole Risky Scheme. And in "success story" California? The young, 18-34, only make up 23% of the pool. Um, shouldn't that be 26 - 34 yr olds? Because the 18 - 25 yr olds will still be on mommy & daddy's basement plan.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 21, 2013 12:15 PM (ix+5k)

29 Death Spiral Watch -- Glenn Reynolds called it "Peak Schadenfreude."

Posted by: USA at November 21, 2013 12:15 PM (VIaw0)

30 Well as mentioned in the prev thread, at least the youngins won't have access to the scourge that is the McRib Sandwich.

Posted by: dan a nj con formerly known as dana nj con at November 21, 2013 12:15 PM (wmU4G)

31 "Healthcare Free Riderszzzzzzzz!!!" - Ezra Kelin

Posted by: Lizzy at November 21, 2013 12:15 PM (JRmiD)

32 Let's put it this way, ace. We are desperately trying to enroll because it's our only option since Obama made our insurance illegal. Young? Check Healthy? Nope. Why do they think we're so desperate to have health insurance? Wealthy? Well, I mean in the sense that we could probably survive with the $1000/month premiums, yes. However it would mean that we would have absolutely no discretionary income at all. None. Food. Gas. Car Payments. House payments. Insurance. Period. That's all.

Posted by: Lauren at November 21, 2013 12:16 PM (hFL/3)

33 31 "Healthcare Free Riderszzzzzzzz!!!" - Ezra Kelin --- Free ride! Take it easy!

Posted by: Foghat at November 21, 2013 12:16 PM (/Crba)

34 Well, the yutes of this nation voted for him so whatever.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 21, 2013 12:16 PM (P1WNR)

35 Death Spiral Watch -- Glenn Reynolds called it "Peak Schadenfreude."

Posted by: USA at November 21, 2013 04:15 PM (VIaw0)

We're just gettin started

Posted by: Barky, Hairy and Syphilis at November 21, 2013 12:17 PM (nTgAI)

36 So what Obamacare really needs is enrollees who are

1, young,

2, healthy,

3, making enough money to pay almost full freight,

4, stupid,

5, ambivalent about having their identities stolen...

Posted by: Dang at November 21, 2013 12:17 PM (YWXTN)

37 30,000 in all of California? Holy crap! They cancelled at least 1 million people's existing plans so far. What a clusterfuck.

And the funny thing is.. the VasaCare web site is somewhat working, but most people think it is down and are waiting til Dec 1st.. then they will all try to set up accounts on the same day. lol..

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 21, 2013 12:17 PM (f9c2L)

38 ♫ Please flush it all awaaaaaaaaaay... ♫

Posted by: Tool at November 21, 2013 12:17 PM (NE2or)

39 Meh? Really? No surprise is it Horde?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humantiarian at November 21, 2013 12:17 PM (HVff2)

40 Turns out there are not as many shovel-ready young people as we expected.

---

Shovel-ready older people, though? We've got enough of them.

Posted by: JEF at November 21, 2013 04:14 PM (/Crba)

Sick....and well done

Posted by: Barky, Hairy and Syphilis at November 21, 2013 12:18 PM (nTgAI)

41 "Healthcare Free Riderszzzzzzzz!!!" - Ezra Kelin --- Free ride! Take it easy! Posted by: Foghat Don't Look Back!

Posted by: rickb223 at November 21, 2013 12:18 PM (ix+5k)

42 "Death spiral" sounds so harsh. Let's call it pirouette de mort.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 21, 2013 12:18 PM (Hx5uv)

43 You know that there's a CENSUS report that should have been the basis for age of population expectations prior to ANY legislation. So what does the US Census in California report on the population of residents? California ACA Enrollment 18-34 23% 45-64 56% MISSING % of ages 35-44 % of ages <65 % of ages >17

Posted by: panzernashorn at November 21, 2013 12:18 PM (MhA4j)

44 Um, shouldn't that be 26 - 34 yr olds? Because the 18 - 25 yr olds will still be on mommy & daddy's basement plan. Posted by: rickb223

Good point.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 21, 2013 12:18 PM (P1WNR)

45 Hey...you guys gettin the feeling that this Obamacare thing isn't such a good idea?

Posted by: dan a nj con formerly known as dana nj con at November 21, 2013 12:18 PM (wmU4G)

46 That's why we need Amnesty, so millions can come out of shadows and go on Medicaid!

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 21, 2013 12:18 PM (ZPrif)

47 Wait - I see all the kids these days with their Beats headphones and their iPhone 5s...they clearly have the money to afford healthcare.

Oh, it's either debt or welfare, you say?

Shit.

Posted by: Barry the Fool at November 21, 2013 12:19 PM (/29Nl)

48 Looking California, feelin Minnesota, outshined

Posted by: The Jackhole at November 21, 2013 12:19 PM (nTgAI)

49 "4, stupid," See, that's where you're wrong. My husband and I aren't stupid. We are fully aware of how fucking god awful everything about this is. We just have no other options. My husband can't close his hand because his joints are so swollen from his arthritis. He's 29. If we had another option, we'd take it.

Posted by: Lauren at November 21, 2013 12:19 PM (hFL/3)

50 Let's call it pirouette de mort.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 21, 2013 04:18 PM (Hx5uv)

____________________________

Posted by: Msrcel Marceau at November 21, 2013 12:19 PM (32Ze2)

"1, young,

2, healthy,

and 3, making enough money to pay almost full freight."

You forgot number 4, Ace: Male.

Women use more health care than men by far, regardless of the state of their health.

Posted by: Nomennovum at November 21, 2013 12:20 PM (gAUJb)

52 so > and < = delete of text

Posted by: panzernashorn at November 21, 2013 12:20 PM (MhA4j)

53 Pyramid schemes kinda rely on...a pyramid, right?

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/s] at November 21, 2013 12:20 PM (Xlbr8)

54 Ask not what ObamaCare can do for you. Ask what you can do for ObamaCare.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 21, 2013 12:20 PM (Hx5uv)

55 48 Looking California, feelin Minnesota, outshined --- The grass is always greener Where the dogs are shitting

Posted by: Chris Cornell at November 21, 2013 12:20 PM (/Crba)

1, young, 2, healthy, and 3, making enough money to pay almost full freight.

4. Not getting coverage through their union

Posted by: HeatherRadishï¿½ needs a beer at November 21, 2013 12:20 PM (ZKzrr)

57 I saw Death Spiral open for Def Leppard in '92.

Posted by: toby928© at November 21, 2013 12:20 PM (QupBk)

58 Peak Schadenfreude....and my Pyrrhic Victory.

Posted by: Barack the Magnificent at November 21, 2013 12:20 PM (JRmiD)

59 53 Pyramid schemes kinda rely on...a pyramid, right? --- It's not a pyramid scheme. It's a triangular business opportunity.

Posted by: Barry The SCOAMF at November 21, 2013 12:20 PM (/Crba)

60 An upside down pyramid looks kinda tippy, like Guam. Just saying...

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/s] at November 21, 2013 12:21 PM (Xlbr8)

61 You've got a typo/omission in the first sentence, Ace. You mean to say that "Obama is hoping for YOUNG Obamacare enrollees to make up 38% of the total.

Posted by: Masturbatin' Pete at November 21, 2013 12:21 PM (xN1DB)

62 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 21, 2013 04:17 PM This. 30K? WTH. I thought there were millions that needed help from the imperial one. In California no less. Help us Lord.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at November 21, 2013 12:21 PM (/djtm)

63 California needs to be stripped of its statehood and made back into a territory.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at November 21, 2013 12:21 PM (6k1xv)

64 Ummmmmmmmm , ......... It looks like our ...... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh Pyramid is upside down. Kathy......make it go away....

Posted by: Preznit Urkel X at November 21, 2013 12:21 PM (32Ze2)

65 Welcome to the Hotel California 30 days and IÂ’m outta here. Do you spell Â“outtaÂ” with one t or ttwo?

Posted by: 30 days in the hole at November 21, 2013 12:22 PM (QF8uk)

CALIFORNIA STARS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhm27uXG6bg

Posted by: BILLY BRAGG (ampersand) Wilco at November 21, 2013 12:22 PM (OhOhI)

67 "4. Not getting coverage through their union" Man, ain't that the truth. Back in the UPS days of our marriage we had gold plated insurance and paid nothing for it. Of course, we also made nothing and had to deal with the soul crushing union, so there was a trade off...

Posted by: Lauren at November 21, 2013 12:22 PM (hFL/3)

68 Not sure how many young people are healthy here in California, a lot of old people look healthy, but the young? I think the asthma rate is pretty high in this state for natives.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at November 21, 2013 12:22 PM (WdbF7)

69 This is only because young people are not very tech-savvy and tend to panic and freak out over minor website glitches. Once the website is working smoothly we'll see those youth signups increase.

Posted by: Brendan at November 21, 2013 12:22 PM (2jQGY)

70 The exchanges are built on the Underpants Gnome theory. Step 1- have incredibly expensive policies Step 2- ??? Step 3- profit. Young, healthy, even-quasi-intelligent young people are not going to sign up for "benefits" that cost more than their purported savings.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) on his phone at November 21, 2013 12:22 PM (PYAXX)

71 Ummmmmmmmm , ......... It looks like our ...... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh Pyramid is upside down. Kathy......make it go away....
-
The Smartest Man in the World is holding the blueprints upside down.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 21, 2013 12:22 PM (Hx5uv)

72 70 The exchanges are built on the Underpants Gnome theory. Step 1- have incredibly expensive policies Step 2- ??? Step 3- profit. Young, healthy, even-quasi-intelligent young people are not going to sign up for "benefits" that cost more than their purported savings. --- Guys, what's Step 2?

Posted by: Underpants Gnome at November 21, 2013 12:23 PM (/Crba)

73 California needs to be stripped of its statehood and made back into a territory.

I'm willing to sell it back to Mexico.

Cash only, plz.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at November 21, 2013 12:23 PM (ZKzrr)

74 49. name link UK Mail given the 30 year sex slave captivity in London story, you'd think she'd think better than post her boobs: Busty Serbian politician, 27, at 'centre of government probe' after racy photos of her in lingerie appear in tabloid paper Vanja Hadzovic is an adviser in the ministry of foreign affairs The photos of her in the daily Blic have ruffled feathers in the ministry

Posted by: panzernashorn at November 21, 2013 12:23 PM (MhA4j)

Pyramid schemes kinda rely on...a pyramid, right?

We'll build the bottom of the pyramid, later.

Posted by: Barakhenaten I at November 21, 2013 12:23 PM (OhOhI)

76 Sarcasm aside. Do you really believe these horrible numbers? I believe the numbers are actually worse than what are reported. I don't believe any one who has anything to do with TFGCare.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humantiarian at November 21, 2013 12:23 PM (HVff2)

77
New laptop, iPad, iPhone, wide screen, and mortgage payment versus Obamacare.

Yea right.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/s] at November 21, 2013 12:23 PM (Xlbr8)

78 48 Looking California, feelin Minnesota, outshined Jesus Christ Pose.

Posted by: TFG at November 21, 2013 12:23 PM (/djtm)

Well, every last one of those young people who voted for Obama back in 2008 will be forced onto the exchanges next year; the 18-yr-olds of 2008 are now the 26-yr-olds of 2014.

Welcome to the Utopia you voted for, kids. You'll be paying for it the rest of your lives...

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (@Teresa_Koch) at November 21, 2013 12:23 PM (PZ6/M)

80 73 California needs to be stripped of its statehood and made back into a territory. I'm willing to sell it back to Mexico. Cash only, plz. --- Like that will happen. We'll either get phony $100 bills or those fake bearer bonds seized in Switzerland a few years back.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 21, 2013 12:24 PM (/Crba)

81 I will not be denied.

Posted by: Law of Economics at November 21, 2013 12:24 PM (XvHmy)

82 It seems likely to me that the young people singing up for Obamacare Sing for your healthcare, young comrades. Sing, sing, sing!

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at November 21, 2013 12:24 PM (7ObY1)

83 Young people don't have any fucking money! How the fuck can they these crazy prices!?

Have you checked the young people employment numbers lately?

Posted by: Dan at November 21, 2013 04:12 PM (gR5OX)

--------------------------------------------------

Introducing this POS law in this fucked up economic enviroment is about as destructive as it gets. And I think that's exactly why this regime is doing it.

Posted by: Soona at November 21, 2013 12:24 PM (66ULQ)

84 If you like your post office, you can keep your post office -- for your healthcare.

Posted by: USA at November 21, 2013 12:25 PM (VIaw0)

85 The exchanges are built on the Underpants Gnome theory. Step 1- have incredibly expensive policies Step 2- ??? Step 3- profit. Young, healthy, even-quasi-intelligent young people are not going to sign up for "benefits" that cost more than their purported savings. --- Guys, what's Step 2? Find quasi-intelligent young people.....

Posted by: rickb223 at November 21, 2013 12:25 PM (ix+5k)

86 I'll bet most of the young that have signed up are the un-healthy ones desperate for insurance.

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at November 21, 2013 12:25 PM (9Bdcz)

87 Free ride! Take it easy!
Posted by: Foghat

Don't Look Back!

Crash and Burn

Posted by: Blanco Basura at November 21, 2013 12:25 PM (YEelc)

88 My God! This is a backpack not a parachute!

Posted by: California at November 21, 2013 12:25 PM (QupBk)

89 Hmmm...How about a fundraiser like a spaghetti dinner? We can have door prizes and a 50/50! Barack can be the Bingo barker and call the numbers while Michelle passes out the cards!! We'll raise hundreds!!

Posted by: dan a nj con formerly known as dana nj con at November 21, 2013 12:26 PM (wmU4G)

90 30 - Last December the MacDonalds had a banner reading "Joy To The World - MacRib is back!" Not joy to the world, Christ is born. Joy to Mac-Fuggin-Rib. Now denouncing ourselves for the racism of hating McRib sammiches.

This was down the block from the florist whose sidewalk sign proclaimed "flowers for all occasions - even abortions". Quaint.

Posted by: Ktnxbye, now in Ptown at November 21, 2013 12:26 PM (RPDkq)

91 I'm willing to sell it back to Mexico.

Mexico: We'll take it gringo, but its gonna cost YOU $5T for us to haul it away.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/s] at November 21, 2013 12:26 PM (Xlbr8)

92 The ObamaCare business plan: You'll get nothing and you'll like it!

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 21, 2013 12:26 PM (Hx5uv)

93 #7

I dread having to go there for anything. The place is an object lesson in why the system is collapsing under illegal immigration. The last time I was there even the personnel didn't speaking English except in response to me.

My blood pressure was going up so badly I was in a daze that felt similar to sleep deprivation. (Yes, this was my own fault from bad habits exacerbated by depression making me disinclined to take proper care of myself.) All I needed was a doctor to look at my vitals, agree with the existing diagnosis, and write a prescription to get me through until I could line up a regular doctor.

The bill for this? $1,000.00, with a straight face. I suddenly felt my fluent in Spanish than English and got the hell out of there. Over time I paid them $200, which struck me as a sane amount for the treatment I received. I find myself wondering if I was the only person not on welfare who was treated that day and paid anything out of pocket.

I wish I could do better against the depression and lose more weight to reduce the hypertension issue. I suspect that is my only hope of survival if things get so screwed up I cannot get my prescriptions any longer. At least I have that option. I don't know what is going to happen to people who have conditions that cannot be alleviated by lifestyle changes and lose access to the doctor who writes their prescriptions. My mother's glaucoma, for example.

Posted by: Epobirs at November 21, 2013 12:26 PM (bPxS6)

94 Sock check

Posted by: Golfman in NC at November 21, 2013 12:26 PM (/djtm)

95 Um, shouldn't that be 26 - 34 yr olds? Because the 18 - 25 yr olds will still be on mommy & daddy's basement plan.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 21, 2013 04:15 PM (ix+5k)

Only if they still have mommies and daddies. California has been quite hospitable as a testbed for My Republican ~~fertilizer plants~~ education facilities.

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at November 21, 2013 12:26 PM (+H/11)

96 Of the four major factors needed; young, rich, healthy, male. California has a lot of each but not a mixture. Young people here are not wealthy, some are not even healthy. Also not a lot of young males either. Only the old are rich in this state.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at November 21, 2013 12:26 PM (WdbF7)

97 "86 I'll bet most of the young that have signed up are the un-healthy ones desperate for insurance." Exactly.

Posted by: Lauren at November 21, 2013 12:26 PM (hFL/3)

98 "I'm Sick of You" - Iggy Pop

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at November 21, 2013 12:26 PM (7ObY1)

99 "Obama is hoping for Obamacare enrollees to make up 38% of the total..."

And I don't trust any number from the White House yet again. Any chance it might've low-balled the number needed, i.e. set a low bar that it thinks it could meet? I don't know the actual actuarial numbers needed to transfer an adequate amount of capital from Group A to Group B to subsidize Group B, but I suspect that 38% remains too low.

But I don't trust ANY number from this government. Pretty sure mine is a safe bet.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at November 21, 2013 12:26 PM (eHIJJ)

100 Introducing this POS law in this fucked up economic enviroment is about as destructive as it gets. And I think that's exactly why this regime is doing it.

Heh. Just stay tuned, bub.

Posted by: The Fuse on the Employer Mandate Bomb at November 21, 2013 12:27 PM (8ZskC)

101 If you like your post office, you can keep your post office -- for your healthcare.

There's a new Post Office flyer out promoting 3 of their holiday stamps: one says HANUKKAH, one says KWANZAA, and one has a picture of a gingerbread house.

What day is Gingerbread House this year you guys?

Posted by: Ian S. at November 21, 2013 12:27 PM (B/VB5)

102 My God! This is a backpack packed with shit sandwiches not a parachute! Posted by: California FIFY

Posted by: Mike Hammer at November 21, 2013 12:27 PM (aDwsi)

103 So I was chatting with a friend of mine who is very knowledgeable on the collapse of the Oregon Health Plan in the 90s. (Oregon's attempt at Statewide universal coverage via Medicaid.) He spoke of something called "woodworking" whereby you make your estimates on coverage levels and suddenly people start "coming out of the woodwork" who for whatever reason you didn't expect. (i.e. your guess was horribly horribly wrong.) Apparently it contributed heavily (among other things) to the ultimate failure of the plan. That could describe some of what's happening here. (Not all of it, I suspect a chunk of it is the young invincibles just skipping coverage as well.)

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No really!) at November 21, 2013 12:27 PM (GaqMa)

104 Do you really believe these horrible numbers? I believe the numbers are actually worse than what are reported. I don't believe any one who has anything to do with TFGCare.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humantiarian a

No.

After the first week of Oct. that HCare blogger, Bob Lewzowiewowie something, got a hold of a breakdown of applications going to the ins co's. A whole shit-load were duplicate applications.

Considering what an absolute fustercluck the exchanges have been, there's little reason to believe their current numbers.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 21, 2013 12:27 PM (KVY+w)

105

Sock check

Check.

Posted by: Anthony Kiedes at November 21, 2013 12:27 PM (OhOhI)

106 But wait - they're walking around in $400 shoes, leather jackets, and brand new pro sports swag.

Oh. Selling EBT and drugs, you say.

Shit.

Posted by: Barry the Fool at November 21, 2013 12:27 PM (/29Nl)

107 I'm willing to sell it back to Mexico.

-------------------------
Mexico: We'll take it gringo, but its gonna cost YOU $5T for us to haul it away.

Crap. Does this mean there's a leaf blower in my professional future?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 21, 2013 12:28 PM (8ZskC)

108
Why would a young woman pay $200/mo for insurance to get $9/mo in pills?

Posted by: The Smarter Julia at November 21, 2013 12:28 PM (iGPSR)

109 99 "Obama is hoping..."
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at November 21, 2013 04:26 PM (eHIJJ)
Hope is not a stategy.

Posted by: Hillary Clinton's past at November 21, 2013 12:28 PM (ozktE)

110 crumble,crumble,crumble

Posted by: dahousedatBAMbuilt at November 21, 2013 12:28 PM (Inb6b)

111 These "young" people are NOT fucking healthy, ace. No way they would sign up unless they are sick as fuck or they qualify for a big subsidy (or both).

Posted by: Eton Cox at November 21, 2013 12:28 PM (q177U)

112 Chuck Todd: Dems Â‘Activist Base,Â’ Deflated by Obamacare, Demanded Nuclear Option

http://tinyurl.com/ozk6qbr

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 21, 2013 12:28 PM (P1WNR)

113 whoops, I didn't read your article, LOL

Posted by: Eton Cox at November 21, 2013 12:29 PM (q177U)

114 Tell me, now that there are over a hundred thousand (and counting) enrollees in obamacare, how are the Republicans gonna repeal it without taking away their health insurance? This is why the Republicans are full of shit when they say they're for repeal. They say that now but they dont mean it...and theyre gonna shy away from the repeal talk real soon.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 21, 2013 12:29 PM (RLCmM)

115 Mike Hammer: "Welcome to the Hotel California"

Heh.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at November 21, 2013 12:29 PM (eHIJJ)

116 There's a new Post Office flyer out promoting 3 of their holiday stamps: one says HANUKKAH, one says KWANZAA, and one has a picture of a gingerbread house.

What day is Gingerbread House this year you guys?

The gingerbread house is for Kwanzaa. You missed the broken window and the missing big screen.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 21, 2013 12:29 PM (8ZskC)

117 How can the system work when 75% of people who actually made it onto the sight got put into either Medicare of Medicaid? Of the 27,000 some odd people who went to the exchange how many are oldsters/sicksters looking for the hipsters to subsidize them? The whole thing is non sensical. No way this works. People will not comply. I know that I won't.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 21, 2013 12:30 PM (32Ze2)

118 It's going to take a lot of popcorn to watch this train wreck.

Posted by: USA at November 21, 2013 12:30 PM (VIaw0)

119 93 - hours and hours to get a prescription for glaucoma drops. CVS charges vary from $15 to $70 a refill, who knows why prices vary? Using meds every other day, if that.

Posted by: Ktnxbye, now in Ptown at November 21, 2013 12:30 PM (RPDkq)

120

I've got my eye on you.

Well, actually, I've got my eye on every one of the states but I've got a special hard-on for Cali.

Posted by: Death Spiral at November 21, 2013 12:31 PM (LA7Cm)

121 Hopefully that kid Chad or Brad or whatever his name is got his situation straightened out!! It seems like so long ago when I read the story about that faker and how easy the website worked for him and I laughed and laughed at that jerk. Be was so proud to be the first (fake) enrollee It must seem even longer to the true believers. Their long national nightmare just keeps getting worse! I chuckle at them

Posted by: Puttanesca, the sauce at November 21, 2013 12:31 PM (1ThpN)

122

SLICK NICK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQSYJPASsEQ

Posted by: FISHBONE at November 21, 2013 12:31 PM (OhOhI)

123 The young, healthy, and making money are absolutely, positively, socking away cash for Obama coverage, serious you guys. With the kinds of premiums and deductibles we've been seeing, who wouldn't take the fine?

Posted by: Fritz at November 21, 2013 12:32 PM (UzPAd)

124 Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 21, 2013 04:29 PM (8ZskC) Me bad, I thought that way funny on the ginger bread house.....

Posted by: Misanthropic Humantiarian at November 21, 2013 12:32 PM (HVff2)

125 "how are the Republicans gonna repeal it without taking away their health insurance? " Uh, simple, they just take the regulations away. The insurance companies can keep selling those plans if they have people willing to buy them, but they can also sell plans that don't cover maternity coverage for geriatrics for a lower cost.

Posted by: Lauren at November 21, 2013 12:32 PM (hFL/3)

126 Meanwhile McConnell and DC GOP busy attacking its own base: Dems 'Activist Base,' Demanded Nuclear Option

---Dan Riehl

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 21, 2013 12:32 PM (P1WNR)

127 1, young, 2, healthy, and 3, making enough money to pay almost full freight. AND, THEY would have jobs so they would not be looking for insurance on the individual market. DefCon 3 Death Spiral ahead.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 21, 2013 12:32 PM (0FSuD)

128 that 56 percent of the 30,830 people who had enrolled... Helluva job, Sparky! Only 1000 times as many Californians to go!

Posted by: t-bird at November 21, 2013 12:32 PM (FcR7P)

129 1, young, 2, healthy, and 3, making enough money to pay almost full freight. Hmm, sounds like.....working people! Many of whom already have insurance through their employers. Tell me again who thought this would work?

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at November 21, 2013 12:32 PM (pginn)

130 I'm talking about the 'free' plans under obamacare.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 21, 2013 12:33 PM (RLCmM)

131 119 It's going to take a lot of popcorn to watch this train wreck. Posted by: USA at November 21, 2013 04:30 PM (VIaw0) That's ok, I have a lot of butter. And salt, don't forget the salt. Moar, moar!

Posted by: Misanthropic Humantiarian at November 21, 2013 12:33 PM (HVff2)

132 If you like, you can keep me.

Posted by: Death Spiral at November 21, 2013 12:33 PM (LA7Cm)

133 Watching Fox News: It's almost a litmus test for politicians, if they call it the oxymoronic (neologism alert) 'Affordable Care Act' they are lefties. If I notice that, I am a racist who needs to be denounced.

Posted by: Lace Wigs [/i] at November 21, 2013 12:34 PM (UL/Aj)

134
Its people! Soylent obamacare, its people!

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 21, 2013 12:34 PM (iGPSR)

135 "AND, THEY would have jobs so they would not be looking for insurance on the individual market. " Employers are dropping their insurance plans. That's how we got in the mess that we're in. Not as many as will next year, of course, but there are definitely people who've lost employer provided insurance in this debacle.

Posted by: Lauren at November 21, 2013 12:34 PM (hFL/3)

136 "Obama is hoping..." Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at November 21, 2013 04:26 PM (eHIJJ) Hope is not a stategy. Posted by: Hillary Clinton's past I feel like it's a secure site.

Posted by: Kathleen Sissiphus[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 21, 2013 12:34 PM (sByIH)

137 The joke's on them, because they still think young people have money. My generation's been bled dry.

Posted by: Cato at November 21, 2013 12:35 PM (i+Vw2)

138 I long for the day that the American public just says, "ENOUGH", and goes on a rampage in DC. Sadly, I think all of this will be accepted in full with mewling whimpering.

Posted by: Soona at November 21, 2013 12:35 PM (66ULQ)

139 10 Yet another California coffin nail. How many is this state going to need before it just goes toes-up? Give me a little more time, I am working on it.

Posted by: San Andreas Fault at November 21, 2013 12:35 PM (0FSuD)

140 >>What day is Gingerbread House this year you guys?

Dunno. But it sure is a happy holiday for season's greetings.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 21, 2013 12:35 PM (JRmiD)

141 Watching Fox News: It's almost a litmus by I Want This">test for politicians, if they call it the oxymoronic (neologism alert) 'Affordable Care Act' they are lefties.
-
Which is the bigger lie, that Obama cares or that the act makes healthcare affordable?

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 21, 2013 12:36 PM (Hx5uv)

142 As in old folks like me enrolling (or trying to) because losing my substandard health plan for heavily subsidize shitty plan makes perfect sense.

Posted by: YIKES! at November 21, 2013 12:36 PM (mETGQ)

143 >>>"Obama is hoping..."
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at November 21, 2013 04:26 PM (eHIJJ)

Hope is not a stategy.

Posted by: Hillary Clinton's past

I feel like it's a secure site.

Posted by: Kathleen Sissiphus at November 21, 2013 04:34 PM (sByIH) <<<

I sense more trouble on the horizon.

Posted by: Legolas at November 21, 2013 12:36 PM (NE2or)

144 I think that the Dems loaded enough extra dough into the first part of Obamacare to take care of those wily young folks who refuse to do their duty and pay for others' healthcare. Even though the Libs always underestimate how often people will act in their own best interests, this time they've larded the program with sufficient cash to get through the first couple of lean years. When it comes to spending other folks' money, they are remarkably efficient and thourough.

Posted by: Barrack at November 21, 2013 12:37 PM (yw6Yn)

145 Another episode of Destroying Healthcare, brought to you with limited commercial interruptions by the Democratic Party. Enjoy the show!

Posted by: USA at November 21, 2013 12:37 PM (VIaw0)

146 Some need Monty to spell out how salary and compensation and benefit packages work.

Posted by: nip at November 21, 2013 12:37 PM (jI23+)

147 I thought if you're under 26 years old, you're still a "minor" under Obamadoesntcare.

Posted by: looking closely at November 21, 2013 12:37 PM (6Q9g2)

148 I'm willing to bet a lot of the estimates and assumptions upon which Obamacare was built were determined to get the CBO to be able to say it was "revenue neutral over the next 10 years" or whatever revenue/deficit lie Barry was spewing at the time.

In other words, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the numbers were created to enable a desired outcome, rather than based on realistic projections.

Posted by: Mayday at November 21, 2013 12:37 PM (eHc+1)

149 Young people should incorporate and then role the dice if they get sick.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 21, 2013 12:38 PM (t3UFN)

150 I was born and raised in flyover country. I'm still here. When I was younger I wanted to go to CA and live there. It was never in the cards and I'm still here in flyover country. Thank you Sweet Jesus.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humantiarian at November 21, 2013 12:38 PM (HVff2)

151 Which is the bigger lie, that Obama cares or that the act makes healthcare affordable?

Obviously that the act makes healthcare affordable. Obama does care. He cares about getting to the golf course, throwing lavish parties, vacations...

Posted by: Blanco Basura at November 21, 2013 12:38 PM (YEelc)

152 >>>Tell me again who thought this would work?<<<

The same ninnyhammers who think amnesty will work?

Posted by: Fritz at November 21, 2013 12:39 PM (UzPAd)

153 Aside: Funny how no one on the left seems to know that the Constitution doesn't say how many justices make up the Supreme Court. In the modern world of 2017, I think eleven makes sense.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 21, 2013 12:40 PM (659DL)

154 KEEP CALM and BLAME BUSH

Posted by: toby928© at November 21, 2013 12:40 PM (QupBk)

155 When I was younger I wanted to go to CA and live there. It was never in the cards and I'm still here in flyover country. California, or at least San Diego, was a wonderful place to move to even as late as 1990. I lived by the beach for several years, it was very nice and IÂ’m glad I did it.

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at November 21, 2013 12:41 PM (QF8uk)

156 Skipping to the bottom, but I know my Ocare-loving cousin and her husband are going to sign up. Neither gets insurance through work, and they have adopted two special-needs kids, and then their last child had horrible heart defects. They're young-ish (37 and 39), but they are intentionally bringing in 3 extremely expensive individuals onto the plan. And he's a minister and she's a stay-at-home mom, so they totally don't pull their own weight. (Even before the adoptions and their son, they had their three girls on SCHIP.) So, you know, this bodes well.

Posted by: sunny-dee at November 21, 2013 12:41 PM (EBoCD)

157 Some guy on Cavuto who runs a dating website is offering to fix the ObamaCare website for free. If you list your likes and dislikes we'll get you some insurance... Do you like? 1. Long walks in the park 2. Long waits in the Drs office /stop the world, I want off

Posted by: Lace Wigs [/i] at November 21, 2013 12:41 PM (UL/Aj)

158 So what Obamacare really needs is enrollees who are 1, young, 2, healthy, and 3, making enough money to pay almost ~~full~~ double freight.

Posted by: t-bird at November 21, 2013 12:41 PM (FcR7P)

159 Aside: Funny how no one on the left seems to know that the Constitution doesn't say how many justices make up the Supreme Court. In the modern world of 2017, I think eleven makes sense. Five might be better. Then you can cull.

Posted by: --- at November 21, 2013 12:41 PM (MMC8r)

160 How can the system work when 75% of people who actually made it onto the sight got put into either Medicare of Medicaid? Of the 27,000 some odd people who went to the exchange how many are oldsters/sicksters looking for the hipsters to subsidize them?

Not to worry. Once they deem that cost/benefit ratio for treating the oldsters is too high, the problem will take care of itself.

Admit it- you've been eager to inherit Grandma's Hummel collection when she passes away, so it's win-win, baby!

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 21, 2013 12:41 PM (SY2Kh)

161 Voices from your healthcare future: "Next in Line! Do you want stamps with your colonoscopy?"

Posted by: USA at November 21, 2013 12:42 PM (VIaw0)

162 /stop the world, I want off Posted by: Lace Wigs at November 21, 2013 04:41 PM (UL/Aj) That's the whole point of SMOD

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 21, 2013 12:42 PM (t3UFN)

163 If I notice that, I am a racist who needs to be denounced. You are awesome. Thank you for that. I hate hate HATE the construction "needs denounced" or any variant on that.

Posted by: Kathleen Sissiphus[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 21, 2013 12:42 PM (sByIH)

164 46 That's why we need Amnesty, so millions can come out of shadows and go on Medicaid!

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 21, 2013 04:18 PM (ZPrif)

I wholeheartedly agree, friend. Forward!

Posted by: John McCain (R) at November 21, 2013 12:43 PM (e4elg)

165 34,000 of 33-36 million California residents. California hosts close to 40% of the welfare recipients nationwide. Unsecured public retirement debts in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

I wonder who will be shouldering the load? Working class Latinos or Asian and white middle class leftist suburbanites in the LA basin and the SF bay area?

I lol. I'll be signing up for the platinum package, soon.

Posted by: 13times at November 21, 2013 12:43 PM (fGPLK)

166 162 Voices from your healthcare future:
"Next in Line! Do you want stamps with your colonoscopy?"
Posted by: USA at November 21, 2013 04:42 PM (VIaw0)
How many people these days remember trading stamps?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at November 21, 2013 12:43 PM (ozktE)

167 O/T but related......Matt Ygleiswhatever's inevitable column on greedy doctors who need to understand their services are required (a right!) but just not not as worthy of compensation as they think:

"What we really ought to be doing is working to further pressure the incomes of doctors through supply-side reforms. That means letting nurse practitioners treat patients without kicking a slice upstairs to an MD, letting more doctors immigrate to the United States, and opening more medical schools."
(h/t Protein Wisdom)

http://preview.tinyurl.com/pepebjo

Posted by: Lizzy at November 21, 2013 12:43 PM (JRmiD)

168 We need that 'roided-up dude on "Restaurant: Impossible" to do a show called "Healthcare: Impossible," where he goes into government offices and starts humiliating people and destroying things with a sledgehammer. I'd watch!

Posted by: jakeman at November 21, 2013 12:43 PM (vH4YP)

169 "Next in Line! Do you want stamps with your colonoscopy?" Posted by: USA at November 21, 2013 04:42 PM (VIaw0) And by stamps I mean a hammer on your fingers to distract your from the dirty rod I am about to shove up your ass

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 21, 2013 12:43 PM (t3UFN)

170 Here little girl and boy, try a bite of my gingerbread house...

Posted by: Kathy Sebelius at November 21, 2013 12:44 PM (aDwsi)

171 Olive View will soon be the average experience in SoCal. Of course then hospitals like Olive View will be much worse. I spent part of last year at OV, about 60 percent Hispanic, about 25 percent drug or psych burn-out. Who pays? Medicare, Medicaid, MediCal, and small amount of actually insured. Olive View is part of UCLA medical school system, almost all doctors are foreign names, I even had 1 doctor wearing that scarf over the head thing. This is the future coming!

Posted by: Big mike at November 21, 2013 12:44 PM (eYiNi)

172 Um, shouldn't that be 26 - 34 yr olds? Because the 18 - 25 yr olds will still be on mommy & daddy's basement plan. Posted by: rickb223 at November 21, 2013 04:15 PM (ix+5k) That assumes the parents: 1. Have health coverage. 2. Can afford or have the desire to add the dependent. 3. Even know that this can be done. It also is only temporary.

Posted by: Meremortal, thinking of low info mofos at November 21, 2013 12:44 PM (1Y+hH)

173 When I was younger I wanted to go to CA and live there.

Same. Since I write software it's slightly amazing I've managed to never live in CA. It's a lovely place to visit but I'm always glad to be gone at the end because the wages of Democrat control are on full display even when you aren't looking for them.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 21, 2013 12:44 PM (B/VB5)

174 Posted by: Lace Wigs at November 21, 2013 04:41 PM (UL/Aj) OK Lace, every time I see your sock I remember the old "lace wig" spam. What happened? You go out of business?

Posted by: San Andreas Fault at November 21, 2013 12:44 PM (0FSuD)

175

OT:

I heard today about the Congresscritter who got arrested for cocaine. Do you all know about this? I'm surprised it's not everywhere, being shouted from the tops of newscasts and newspapers.

The guy has an R behind his name. Apparently he's blaming his dealer for setting him up.

Putz.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 21, 2013 12:45 PM (TOk1P)

176 Young people should incorporate and then role the dice if they get sick. How does that work? You get health insurance through your personal corporation?

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 21, 2013 12:45 PM (sByIH)

177 And when 404Care needs a massive infusion of federal dollars (which will have to be appropriated by Congress) things will get even moar interesting.

You know this is coming if it isn't repealed.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 21, 2013 12:45 PM (cHZB7)

178 Say goodbye to cutting edge, quality medicine.

Posted by: Soona at November 21, 2013 12:45 PM (66ULQ)

179 19 It isn't the death spiral of California I am watching, it is the death spiral of the US Posted by: Vashta Nerada

Yep. And?
"We tried to warn you, Ã˜-Merica."

Posted by: backhoe at November 21, 2013 12:45 PM (ULH4o)

180 A good manager at the top end of this system would have the ratio of age/income/healthy (no pre-existing conditions) handy as some sort of figure-of-merit updating every day to manage this crazy mess.

Posted by: Jean at November 21, 2013 12:45 PM (CMlD4)

181 If I notice that, I am a racist who needs to be denounced.

I hate hate HATE the construction "needs denounced" or any variant on that.

------

If I noticed that. I am a racist who needs denouncing.

Posted by: writing in the passive voice is for pussies at November 21, 2013 12:45 PM (nELVU)

182 When I was younger I wanted to go to CA and live there. -------------------- I'd be safe and warm If I was in L.A. ....

Posted by: Mama Cass at November 21, 2013 12:46 PM (aDwsi)

183 off damn sock

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 21, 2013 12:46 PM (0FSuD)

184 Big mike, time to move

Posted by: Jean at November 21, 2013 12:47 PM (CMlD4)

185 How does that work? You get health insurance through your personal corporation? Posted by: bonhomme at November 21, 2013 04:45 PM (sByIH) I am not sure. Put all your assets in your Corporation and if you get sick they can only go after your personal assets? Hey I'm a fuckin dentist, but there has go to be a way?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 21, 2013 12:47 PM (t3UFN)

186 When it comes to spending other folks' money, they are remarkably efficient and thourough. Posted by: Barrack at November 21, 2013 04:37 PM (yw6Yn) I think you mean "liberal." Doesn't take any brains to promise to spend a lot of other people's money.

Posted by: D-Lamp at November 21, 2013 12:47 PM (bb5+k)

187 I hate hate HATE the construction "needs denounced" or any variant on that. -------------- We need to dialogue...

Posted by: Verber in Chief at November 21, 2013 12:47 PM (aDwsi)

188 Ã¼ber alles

Posted by: Math at November 21, 2013 12:48 PM (mETGQ)

189 183 When I was younger I wanted to go to CA and live there. -------------------- I'd be safe and warm If I was in L.A. .... --- People talk about how I can get indicted for anything. Everyone thinks I killed the bitch but it was actually a heart attack!

Posted by: Ham sandwich at November 21, 2013 12:48 PM (/Crba)

190 Same. Since I write software it's slightly amazing I've managed to never live in CA. It's a lovely place to visit but I'm always glad to be gone at the end because the wages of Democrat control are on full display even when you aren't looking for them. I've seen soo many software job listings for San Francisco, Mountain View, San Diego, Aliso Viejo, etc. I just cruise on by those.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 21, 2013 12:48 PM (sByIH)

191 yes, that's right, the children of the military are excepted from the rule that under-26-year-olds can remain on parents' plans

---ace on Twitter

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 21, 2013 12:49 PM (P1WNR)

192 "Not sure how many young people are healthy here in California, a lot of old people look healthy, but the young? I think the asthma rate is pretty high in this state for natives."

In San Francisco proper, the local ecohysteric left insisted on shutting down several industrial and power generation facilities on the city's east (bay) side, which is where you will also find most of SF's remaining low-income blacks.

Asthma was rife in those neighborhoods, and the left screamed that "pollution" from the industrial businesses was causing it. This was, they said, "environmental racism".

The evil businesses were shut down. Asthma rates didn't budge.

It turns out that what's causing it are cockroaches from people who can't be bothered to keep their housing tidy and free of vermin. Roach feces and saliva are strong triggers.

So: businesses, tax revenues and jobs annihilated. Health problem not solved. Winning!

Posted by: torquewrench at November 21, 2013 12:49 PM (gqT4g)

193 Spanish actor Antonio Banderas surprised CNN viewers when he criticized US President Barack Obama and suggested Europe and the US should apply the same economic policies as VenezuelaÂ’s late president Hugo ChÃ¡vez. During his talk with Spanish journalist Ana Pastor, Banderas was asked several questions about the current financial crisis and possible solutions to it. The Malaga-born star pointed the finger of blame at Â“the markets, the lobbies, the big corporationsÂ” and suggested they didnÂ’t have to take responsibility when countries and governments had problems. Â“WeÂ’re not being governed by the people we voted for,Â” he told Pastor. Â“How do you put a stop to that?Â” she asked. Â“You break it like ChÃ¡vez did in his day, you get all these big corporations and you nationalize them,Â” answered Banderas in the midst of a deafening silence. Â“There was no other way out,Â” he added. Good idea and why don't we first start with all the money you earned in the movies you no talent idiot

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 21, 2013 12:49 PM (t3UFN)

194 We need to dialogue... Sure, but first I have an ask.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 21, 2013 12:49 PM (sByIH)

195 Come on down to Crazy Eddie's House of Pain where we cut costs by avoiding anesthesia and pass the savings directly to you!

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 21, 2013 12:50 PM (Hx5uv)

196 Aside: Funny how no one on the left seems to know that the Constitution doesn't say how many justices make up the Supreme Court. In the modern world of 2017, I think eleven makes sense.

Five might be better. Then you can cull.

==========
A real Republican Senate would have said, we can do fine with eight, then with seven and held up every Obama nominee.

Posted by: Jean at November 21, 2013 12:50 PM (CMlD4)

197 yes, that's right, the children of the military are excepted from the rule that under-26-year-olds can remain on parents' plans ---ace on Twitter Posted by: Dr Spank at November 21, 2013 04:49 PM (P1WNR) Yes, BUT there is a big BUT to that. Children of Military are offered a low cost alternative. It is not so bad really

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 21, 2013 12:50 PM (t3UFN)

198 People talk about how I can get indicted for anything. Everyone thinks I killed the bitch but it was actually a heart attack! Posted by: Ham sandwich ------------------------------ Just relax....

Posted by: Southern Comfort at November 21, 2013 12:50 PM (aDwsi)

199 "What we really ought to be doing is working to further pressure the incomes of doctors through supply-side reforms. That means letting nurse practitioners treat patients without kicking a slice upstairs to an MD, letting more doctors immigrate to the United States, and opening more medical schools."
(h/t Protein Wisdom)

http://preview.tinyurl.com/pepebjo

Posted by: Lizzy at November 21, 2013 04:43 PM (JRmiD)

Yes, lets water down another profession like we did with engineering, I.T. and Dell customer service FFS. Aren't these the same imported pro's that built healthcare.gov?? Yglesias is a fucking dope.

Posted by: dan a nj con formerly known as dana nj con at November 21, 2013 12:50 PM (wmU4G)

200 Aren't the young and healthy living at home with mom and dad?

Posted by: cajun caret at November 21, 2013 12:50 PM (UZQM8)

201
I saw "Roach Feces" open for the "The Offspring" in '93.

Posted by: fixerupper at November 21, 2013 12:51 PM (nELVU)

202 Yes, BUT there is a big BUT to that. Children of Military are offered a low cost alternative. It is not so bad really Posted by: Nevergiveup

Yeah, I'm not sure i trust Obama on that one.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 21, 2013 12:51 PM (P1WNR)

203 Aren't the young and healthy living at home with mom and dad? Posted by: cajun caret at November 21, 2013 04:50 PM (UZQM

Mine are

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 21, 2013 12:51 PM (t3UFN)

204 Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 21, 2013 04:49 PM (t3UFN)

Well, one thing for sure. Venezuela has no problems now.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 21, 2013 12:51 PM (Hx5uv)

205 Apparently he's blaming his dealer for setting him up.

Funny, yesterday he was saying he had an alcohol problem. Never knew being a drunk made you snort coke. The new story makes about as much sense.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at November 21, 2013 12:51 PM (YEelc)

206

194 -

Said the man whose only box office success in the last 10 years is voicing an animated sword wielding cat.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 21, 2013 12:52 PM (TOk1P)

207 Yeah, I'm not sure i trust Obama on that one. Posted by: Dr Spank at November 21, 2013 04:51 PM (P1WNR) ??? Not sure what you mean. They have been offering that for the last 3/4 years. My kid had it

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 21, 2013 12:52 PM (t3UFN)

208 Hey 7 and 93 , What are the odds that three of us in the same thread have spent time in the same hospital?

Posted by: Big mike at November 21, 2013 12:52 PM (naFGt)

209 These enrollee figures assume that they've actually purchased a policy a carrier

I wonder how many have actually gotten their policy and hit the "pay" button

The young take one look at the premium costs, know that the penalty is $95 the first year. How many of them make enough money where they don't sacrifice the game consoles, i-Toys, nights out at the clubs, clothing, along with their student loan payments

Posted by: kbdabear at November 21, 2013 12:52 PM (aTXUx)

210 See ya morons, I'm outta here, please continue saving the world one snark at a time.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humantiarian at November 21, 2013 12:52 PM (HVff2)

211 26 Welcome to the Hotel California Posted by: Mike Hammer

Oddly enough, from the outside? It resembles a Roach Hotel....

Posted by: backhoe at November 21, 2013 12:53 PM (ULH4o)

212 Said the man whose only box office success in the last 10 years is voicing an animatedsword wielding cat. --- If you spent that much time around Eddie Murphy and Cameron Diaz, you'd be a clueless idiot too. Mike Myers supposedly isn't much better.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 21, 2013 12:53 PM (/Crba)

213 OK Lace, every time I see your sock I remember the old "lace wig" spam. What happened? You go out of business? Actually, my everyday nic stopped working. So I thought maybe I was banned so I looked through my previous comments. Of course, every single one was offensive which was no surprise. I knew that Ace wouldn't pull a CJ on me so I [method of beating a banning redacted] and picked an old sock. I was also CheChe.

Posted by: Lace Wigs [/i] at November 21, 2013 12:53 PM (UL/Aj)

214 >>We need to dialogue...

>>Sure, but first I have an ask.

Can't we just conversate?

Posted by: Lizzy at November 21, 2013 12:53 PM (JRmiD)

215 Posted by: Nevergiveup

I'm saying when the death spiral starts, they will be some of the 1st to be sacrificed.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 21, 2013 12:53 PM (P1WNR)

216 186. Nevergiveup ...look into a non-profit LLC dental practice and tell us if it would be financially beneficial for you, your employees and patients.

Posted by: panzernashorn at November 21, 2013 12:54 PM (MhA4j)

217 "What we really ought to be doing is working to further pressure the incomes of doctors through supply-side reforms. That means letting nurse practitioners treat patients without kicking a slice upstairs to an MD, letting more doctors immigrate to the United States, and opening more medical schools." I disagree with letting in more immigrant doctors unless they go through the boards here. I do agree there should be more schools and the certification needs to be more open source.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 21, 2013 12:54 PM (sByIH)

218 Aren't the young and healthy living at home with mom and dad?

Posted by: cajun caret at November 21, 2013 04:50 PM (UZQM

----------------------------------------------

Yes. Mommy and daddy will take care of them. They won't have to work, think, or pay taxes. Because, you know, they're special.

Posted by: Soona at November 21, 2013 12:54 PM (66ULQ)

219 You break it like ChÃ¡vez did in his day Yes ... er ... quite.

Posted by: toby928© at November 21, 2013 12:55 PM (QupBk)

220 I'm saying when the death spiral starts, they will be some of the 1st to be sacrificed. Posted by: Dr Spank at November 21, 2013 04:53 PM (P1WNR) Tricare for Young Adults is outside of the obamacare exchanges. It is thru the Military Tricare System

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 21, 2013 12:55 PM (t3UFN)

221 My favorite Covered California plan is the one dollar a month bronze plan. Doctor visit: $65 after you meet the $5,000 deductible.

Posted by: YIKES! at November 21, 2013 12:55 PM (mETGQ)

222 I am not sure. Put all your assets in your Corporation and if you get sick they can only go after your personal assets? Hey I'm a fuckin dentist, but there has go to be a way? Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 21, 2013 04:47 PM (t3UFN) I've done that, the problem is compounded with the more assets you have. I started family LLC's twenty years ago, long enough for me to send assets to them without any questions. I am bullet proof. You start a new LLC now and attempt to send your shit to it, the IRS will be all over your ass. As a Dentist, you should form an LLC for each child you have, let them buy your building and lease it back to you. You can gift to your children and they can put the gift in the LLC. You control the LLC as a minority shareholder, say 5%, but you are the general manager. The LLC is out of your estate AND if you get divorced, your X can not touch it. Trust me on this. There is no way you can avoid liability for your health bills absent bankruptcy. You can get the LLC to pay your policy, but you are doing that already in the practice so that makes no sense.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 21, 2013 12:55 PM (0FSuD)

223

@186

Piercing the corporate veil. If you use the corporation as an extension of yourself to defraud, you aren't given full protection of the corporate fiction.

If I read your question right anyway.

Posted by: Jollyroger at November 21, 2013 12:55 PM (t06LC)

224 Can't we just conversate? We should take this offline.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 21, 2013 12:56 PM (sByIH)

225 Posted by: Nevergiveup

We'll see.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 21, 2013 12:56 PM (P1WNR)

226 I am starting to get the impression that this Obama fella just doesn't know what he is doing.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 21, 2013 04:54 PM (OWjjx)

--------------------------------------------------

It doesn't take much "knowing" to destroy things.

Posted by: Soona at November 21, 2013 12:56 PM (66ULQ)

227 Speaking of paying for Obamacare, do people actually pay on the website, or do they pay the insurers directly? I've been unclear about that.

When Chao talked about the payment processing and accounting parts not being built the other day, I wasn't sure if that meant consumers pay on the site, or if he was referring to processing between the insurers and Uncle Sam.

Posted by: Mayday at November 21, 2013 12:56 PM (eHc+1)

228 Free Big Screens for the People!

Posted by: Antonio Bannedumbass at November 21, 2013 12:57 PM (MMC8r)

229 I was only fooling around with the corporation thing guys. I am so sick and tired of some of the news to day I am getting slap happy here.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 21, 2013 12:57 PM (t3UFN)

230 What is the line that the US Admiral , played by Fred Thompson, uses in Hunt for Red October ? Something about the situation getting out of control . Signed Commander Carlos Free Healthcare Danger

Posted by: DrDrill at November 21, 2013 12:57 PM (sOFZs)

231 Funny, yesterday he was saying he had an alcohol problem. Never knew being a drunk made you snort coke. The new story makes about as much sense. Rob Ford School of Government.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 21, 2013 12:57 PM (ix+5k)

232 When Chao talked about the payment processing and accounting parts not being built the other day, I wasn't sure if that meant consumers pay on the site, or if he was referring to processing between the insurers and Uncle Sam.

----

Probably both.

Cant spell C H A O S with out CHAO

Posted by: fixerupper at November 21, 2013 12:58 PM (nELVU)

233 But we had all these snazzy commercials here were the young dude crashes on his mountain bike and doesn't have to worry. Or the young family with their sick baby. They said affordable healthcare is now available and you will never be turned away, were they lying?

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at November 21, 2013 12:58 PM (WdbF7)

234 Aren't the young and healthy living at home with mom and dad? My wife got a MS in a science field. She couldn't get work. So she moved back in with her parents and got a second MS degree, in teaching. Now she works in a much easier field, but she gets paid.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 21, 2013 12:58 PM (sByIH)

235

@231

Sorry, its hard to tell. Say I bet you got line on some pretty awesome nitrous oxide. Man, these last 5 years should have flown by for you

Posted by: Jollyroger at November 21, 2013 12:58 PM (t06LC)

236 Free Big Screens for the People!
-
The only thing you have to lose is small screen, low def televisions!

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 21, 2013 12:59 PM (Hx5uv)

237 Sorry, its hard to tell. Say I bet you got line on some pretty awesome nitrous oxide. Man, these last 5 years should have flown by for you Posted by: Jollyroger at November 21, 2013 04:58 PM (t06LC) If I wasn't in the Navy I might have gotten into hard drugs

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 21, 2013 12:59 PM (t3UFN)

238 Can't we just conversate? Posted by: Lizzy at November 21, 2013 04:53 PM (JRmiD) Heh. When the National Park Service thugs told old folks they couldn't look, or "recreate" I was as offended by the bullying thugs as with their revisionist affront to the word "creation," they playing dictators telling people that "to recreate" will enact corporal punishment, literal twisted arms and ankles, broken bones when thrown down by brown/black shirts. In line with saying that 'a baby is only a burden'.

Posted by: panzernashorn at November 21, 2013 01:00 PM (MhA4j)

239 Actually the young generation is quite large. But a lot more of them are poor and a lot more of them are irresponsible.

Posted by: Clemenza at November 21, 2013 01:00 PM (oFCZn)

240 Yglesius: "What we really ought to be doing is working to further pressure the incomes of doctors through supply-side reforms."

No, what we really ought to be doing is pressuring overrated lads with opinions to pay a bigger, fairer share noting that doctors actually provide desirable, tangible services requiring the most rigorous training and expertise. Doctors actually have valuable professional opinions and can fix a**holes; Fabian socialist children just have a**holes.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at November 21, 2013 01:00 PM (eHIJJ)

241

@234

They should have put Leslie Chao from The Hangover in charge of Obamacare. Two advantages: 1) he couldn't have fucked it up anymore, and 2) could you imagine what 400 or so million dollars in cocaine would look like?

Posted by: Jollyroger at November 21, 2013 01:00 PM (t06LC)

242 Can ObamaCare fix my wife's face???

Posted by: Antonio Bannedumbass at November 21, 2013 01:00 PM (MMC8r)

243 "Speaking of paying for Obamacare, do people actually pay on the website, or do they pay the insurers directly? I've been unclear about that" To get the subsidy you have to pay on the website, but you can't pay on the website because the website doesn't work. So, for right now, you have to pay the insurance companies directly and you don't get the subsidy. So yeah all those "cheap" policies for the poor? Well, they have to pay the full unsubsidized price now. Death spiral.

Posted by: Lauren at November 21, 2013 01:00 PM (hFL/3)

244 It naturally occurred to me that HSAs are attractive to the young and healthy, and I had an account up until the time that the state of California confiscated my assets.

Now I don't have an HSA anymore.

Posted by: Fritz at November 21, 2013 01:00 PM (UzPAd)

245 Juan had a meeting with obama today? I wonder if he brought his shine box?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 21, 2013 01:00 PM (t3UFN)

246 Can't we just conversate?
-
I have a small penis so I overconversate.

Posted by: Martin Bashir at November 21, 2013 01:01 PM (Hx5uv)

247 Funny, yesterday he was saying he had an alcohol problem. Never knew being a drunk made you snort coke. The new story makes about as much sense.

Rob Ford School of Government.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 21, 2013 04:57 PM (ix+5k)

---------------------------------------------

Anyone that became a drunk after 1965, has done a lot of drugs too.

Posted by: Soona at November 21, 2013 01:01 PM (66ULQ)

248 Rob Ford School of Government. An old friend of mine was an ATC. She got sent to rehab for using the Ford Defense when being questioned about possible cocaine use at a party she attended. Apparently, I was blind drunk and don't remember much was not the correct answer.

Posted by: toby928© at November 21, 2013 01:01 PM (QupBk)

249 Someone explain to Matty that supply varies directly to compensation.

Posted by: --- at November 21, 2013 01:01 PM (MMC8r)

250 An old friend of mine was an ATC. She got sent to rehab for using the Ford Defense when being questioned about possible cocaine use at a party she attended. Apparently, I was blind drunk and don't remember much was not the correct answer. Posted by: toby928Â© at November 21, 2013 05:01 PM (QupBk) Ummmm. You wouldn't happen to have her number, would you?

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at November 21, 2013 01:02 PM (yz6yg)

251 What we really ought to be doing is working to further pressure the incomes of doctors through supply-side reforms.

----

OK..... now there going to demonize the Doctors..... as in "those greedy, overpaid selfish one percenter doctors".

This clusterfuck will not end well.

Posted by: fixerupper at November 21, 2013 01:02 PM (nELVU)

252 I'm sure that it has been mentioned but it just seems like if you needed a lot of young people to sign up it would have been a good idea to not allow them to sta on their parents insurance until they hit 26.

Posted by: Buzzion at November 21, 2013 01:03 PM (ZFqIg)

253 Death Spiral: I saw them open for everyone in the late 70's. Damn their reunion tour!

Posted by: tbodie at November 21, 2013 01:03 PM (4Vr+0)

254 Someone should also ask Matty to whom our healthcare dollars should go: Doctors, who cure people, or lawyers, who don't.

Posted by: --- at November 21, 2013 01:03 PM (MMC8r)

255

252 -

Also, if you are standing in front of a judge, saying "she was blind drunk and didn't remember much" isn't the correct answer either.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 21, 2013 01:04 PM (TOk1P)

256

I wonder how California is counting "enrolled"?

Who wants to bet adding to your cart enrolls you? By the way, I may or may not have "purchased" a Ferrari, some expensive guns, half of Amazon, and a L-39 Albatross in a similar manner.

I haven't paid for them either

Posted by: Jollyroger at November 21, 2013 01:04 PM (t06LC)

257 Cant spell C H A O S with out CHAO Or CHOAD either.

Posted by: toby928© at November 21, 2013 01:04 PM (QupBk)

258 Hey Jean, Moved as soon as I recovered! High desert is healthier and more peaceful. Cost of living is also much lower too.

Posted by: Big mike at November 21, 2013 01:05 PM (OApiq)

259 What about the Medical signups?

Those people are really going to help pay for everybody else.

You know what esle would help? Legalizing tens of millions of poor illegal aliens.

Posted by: Jukin at November 21, 2013 01:06 PM (WGm5T)

260 I'm sure that it has been mentioned but it just seems like if you needed a lot of young people to sign up it would have been a good idea to not allow them to sta on their parents insurance until they hit 26.

Posted by: Buzzion at November 21, 2013 05:03 PM (ZFqIg)

--------------------------------------------

Or make the economy so bad that none of them can find a job to pay for said insurance.

Posted by: Soona at November 21, 2013 01:06 PM (66ULQ)

261 @254 Some people don't have any parents to mooch off of. That or their parents don't have insurance either. Read, thug with thug parents or single thug mom on medicare.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 21, 2013 01:06 PM (0FSuD)

262 creak, moan, creak, creeeeeeeeeeeeeak

Posted by: dahousedatBAMbuilt at November 21, 2013 01:09 PM (Inb6b)

263 The next excuse will undoubtedly be that of course ObamaCare failed, because you can't run a half-socialized system effectively and they'll do SO MUCH BETTER with all of it.

Posted by: --- at November 21, 2013 01:09 PM (MMC8r)

264 Read, thug with thug parents or single thug mom on medicare. Don't you dare judge me!

Posted by: a thug[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 21, 2013 01:09 PM (sByIH)

265 Thanks Lauren for the answer about how people pay for Obamacare.

I am so sorry you are having to deal with all that crap.

Posted by: Mayday at November 21, 2013 01:11 PM (eHc+1)

266 The next excuse will undoubtedly be that of course ObamaCare failed, because you can't run a half-socialized system effectively and they'll do SO MUCH BETTER with all of it. See also every leftist argument about gun control in NY. "It's only ineffective because people can travel to other states and bring them in. When the ENTIRE COUNTRY doesn't allow legal purchase, THEN we'll have Utopia."

Posted by: a thug[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 21, 2013 01:11 PM (sByIH)

267 Yes, of course. It's so clear now. Doctors earn far too much money for their services. Why should the guy who figures out whether that unpleasant sensation is merely indigestion or an imminent fatal cardiac event make any more than the guy who does a valve job on your old Honda Civic?

Yeah, that should draw the talent to the medical profession.

Posted by: Epobirs at November 21, 2013 01:12 PM (bPxS6)

268 Apparently, I was blind drunk and don't remember much was not the correct answer. Posted by: toby928Â© at November 21, 2013 05:01 PM (QupBk) I don't want to live in a world where that isn't the correct answer to everything.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 21, 2013 01:13 PM (oFCZn)

269 #268

So they believe a centuries old technology will be magically erased from memory?

Any guy with a basement machine shop could start making some serious off the books money if we had a nation wide ban on firearms. When only cops and criminals have guns they don't have to be of great quality.

Posted by: Epobirs at November 21, 2013 01:15 PM (bPxS6)

270 Listening to Juan Williams spew WH talking points. I am fed up. This whole thing just makes me want to throw up.

Posted by: gracepmc at November 21, 2013 01:15 PM (rznx3)

271 So they believe a centuries old technology will be magically erased from memory? Not in so many words, but yes. They'd like to see gun owners going through the daily harassment drug dealers go through. They also believe that any reduction in available guns translates directly to "less gun violence". I usually like to start by pointing out that any idiot can make a gun with two pipes, a screw, a washer, and some entry-level welding.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 21, 2013 01:19 PM (sByIH)

272 Lauren? Kind regards to you both. I was diagnosed with RA circa 1977. In my twenties. It got so bad I had to take codeine and cortisone simply to get out of bed. Then in one of the few episodes of good luck I've had? In 1982 it went into a more or less permanent remission. Twinges, sure, but nothing aspirin or Aleve can't manage. It's a sucky disease.

Posted by: backhoe at November 21, 2013 01:22 PM (ULH4o)

273 28 rickb223 at November 21, 2013 04:15 PM (ix+5k) "Um, shouldn't that be 26 - 34 yr olds? Because the 18 - 25 yr olds will still be on mommy & daddy's basement plan." This brings up an interesting question: Will the 18 - 25 yr olds will still be on mommy & daddy's basement plan? I'm hearing things ... like: The replacement plans (through one's employer, if one is offered) do not cover one's spouse. Why then would they cover the kids?

Posted by: Arbalest at November 21, 2013 01:24 PM (FlRtG)

274 Sure we lose money on every policy but we make it up in volume. That's not just me saying that. Ask any economist that is on the NYT editorial board. They will all tell you that is true.

Posted by: King Barky the Liar at November 21, 2013 01:28 PM (WGm5T)

275 Any guy with a ~~basement machine shop~~ files and a hand drill could start making some serious off the books money if we had a nation wide ban on firearms. When only cops and criminals have guns they don't have to be of great quality.
Posted by: Epobirs

Posted by: Jean at November 21, 2013 01:30 PM (CMlD4)

276 Introducing this POS law in this fucked up economic environment is about as destructive as it gets. And I think that's exactly why this regime is doing it. Posted by: Soona at November 21, 2013 04:24 PM (66ULQ) They came in like Miley Cyrus on a wrecking ball, and they'll leave like it, too, and destroy everything in their wake till then.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 21, 2013 01:40 PM (kdfQ/)

277 90 30 - Last December the MacDonalds had a banner reading "Joy To The World - MacRib is back!" Not joy to the world, Christ is born. Joy to Mac-Fuggin-Rib. Now denouncing ourselves for the racism of hating McRib sammiches. This was down the block from the florist whose sidewalk sign proclaimed "flowers for all occasions - even abortions". Quaint. Posted by: Ktnxbye, now in Ptown at November 21, 2013 04:26 PM (RPDkq) Sounds like Bedford Falls in the It's a Wunnerful Life remake.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 21, 2013 01:42 PM (kdfQ/)

278 And this is why Covered California has said nix to the fix.

They need those nice healthy people paying full price to offset the FSA signing up.

Posted by: PJ at November 21, 2013 01:54 PM (ZWaLo)

279 How about a law that Hollywood movie actors cannot be paid any more than physicians? That should solve the underpaid doctor problem.

Posted by: Queequeg the Harpooner at November 21, 2013 02:02 PM (O7OxF)

280 Hey, don't worry about it. They're going to raise auto registration tax in CA to pay for "roads" so everything here will be all peachy... period!

Posted by: Max Entropy at November 21, 2013 02:14 PM (QKYRm)

281 Tami, thanks for axing. I posted this on previous thread. It went well, but he is still slippery. 137 Speaking of Rove, I guess this is as good a time as any to report on lunch with the evil one. He is also thinking big. He noted that we have at least three Senate seats in the bag, not including NC and NC is the key to at least one more, LA. LA has a grab bag election, that is not over until dec. If we win in NC, his thought was the LA dems won't come out. He sees Scott Brown running in NH and winning. He says the idiot comedian in MN is in trouble. His PAC, Crossroads, is going in big in the GOP primaries. They have vetted their candidates already and plan to spend $30 million. Trying to remember any other pearls of wisdom. He's gotten re married, which I did not know. I'll remember some more shit later.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 21, 2013 02:29 PM (0FSuD)

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