Ace of Spades HQ

January 05, 2013

Do Women Want The Toughest Fighting Jobs? [CharlieBrown'sDildo]
— Open Blogger

I see no particular problem with women in support roles in the military. Men are probably no better at driving trucks and cooking meals and pushing paper and all of the work that goes on behind the scenes in any military organization. But...allowing women in combat roles is insane. Luckily, it seems as if women in the military seem to agree with that.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 08:38 AM | Comments (165)
Post contains 77 words, total size 1 kb.

1 Huh? First!

Posted by: Dan in michigan at January 05, 2013 08:39 AM (2yD4G)

3 As 11M eating dust and dodging IEDs?

Lets send the Democrat women in the House to A-stan to find out. DWS trying to wear a helmet, ha!

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 05, 2013 08:39 AM (HXcdb)

4 We want to until we don't you bastards

Posted by: Wymns at January 05, 2013 08:45 AM (9ug8P)

5 Hi. Bye.

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at January 05, 2013 08:45 AM (jTKU5)

6 No.

Posted by: NCKate at January 05, 2013 08:45 AM (XwChs)

7 @3: DWS should be air-dropped on A'stan in a bikini. The Taliban would all go blind and problem solved.

Posted by: Ian S. at January 05, 2013 08:47 AM (OevbG)

8 Yeah we want to take up all the nice safe roles so you men folk can't be rotated out of combat zones!

Posted by: Barbara Walters at January 05, 2013 08:48 AM (nk5Tr)

9 Eh, I'll let chicks who want to fight, fight. It would be fun to have the Taliban pwned by chicks.

Posted by: JDTAY at January 05, 2013 08:48 AM (a0nis)

10 My sister works at Barns and Noble, so she was able to get me an advance copy of Memory of Light, the last book in the Wheel of Time series. I just finished. Rand Al Thor dies at the end and Avendhai the Aiel chick turns evil and betrays him trying to save the Aiel and turns into a Forsaken. The book ends with the beginning of every book. You're welcome.

Posted by: Spoily McSpoilerson at January 05, 2013 08:48 AM (EoaNf)

11 When you can hump a 70lb shell into the breach, over and over again, you can be in the artillery.

Posted by: toby928© polluting your thread with football at January 05, 2013 08:50 AM (QupBk)

12 I have no problem with women in combat, but the ones headed there need to recognize that they are at the top 10%+ of women physically.

It's a very physical job.

Posted by: GnuBreed at January 05, 2013 08:50 AM (cHZB7)

13 Don't you dare ghetto-ize us though. We should be able to rise to command combat troops. We....uh.....we....just don't actually want to, uhm, fight. .......yeah.

Posted by: Wymyn at January 05, 2013 08:51 AM (G9qZk)

14 The will of the American public to fight a sustained war is already near zero. Let the bad guys capture a few women soldiers and abuse them on TV and we might as well resign from the World's Policeman gig.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 05, 2013 08:51 AM (ehEyA)

15 I am all for it when they can pull a 220lb guy with 50lbs of gear through the muck and mud for 200yds with one hand while still firing her weapon - is that too much to ask? And for the record, i probably couldn't do it either right now.

Posted by: Rob in Katy at January 05, 2013 08:52 AM (PiTBB)

16 To the Taliban: "Never mess with Aunt Brigit when she has been drinking."

Posted by: SurferDoc at January 05, 2013 08:52 AM (6H6FZ)

17 Spoily McSpoilerson, I am your father.

Posted by: Darth Vader at January 05, 2013 08:52 AM (a0nis)

18 Not surprising. When the question came up during the Carter administration, I was in the Navy. I remember a female enlisted stating that if they forced women into frontline combat positions, she'd get pregnant so she could get a medical discharge.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at January 05, 2013 08:54 AM (T0f6e)

19 The idea of women as truck drivers, supply, etc makes an assumption that current battlefields have some kind of static front line. hat hasn't been the case in a long long time.

All positions in the service are now front line positions.

Posted by: Vic at January 05, 2013 08:56 AM (53z96)

20 There are some combat roles that women could fill as well as men do: most aircrew positions, for instance, involve driving aircraft with power-boosted controls requiring little actual strength, or just button-pushing and knob-twisting under sphincter-loosening conditions.

There is a problem with the existing inventory being sized for men: women are sometimes just too small to reach all the controls. But I don't think it's "insane" to consider using them where they can do the work.

Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at January 05, 2013 08:56 AM (2VCZA)

21 Greetings: As to your first paragraph contention, wouldn't the better question be "Are women better enough than men at those jobs to make up for all the attendant accommodations that their presence will end up requiring ???"

Posted by: 11B40 at January 05, 2013 08:57 AM (BBCqB)

The will of the American public to fight a sustained war is already near zero. Let the bad guys capture a few women soldiers and abuse them on TV and we might as well resign from the World's Policeman gig.

We wouldn't be fighting a sustained war if we had the will to win by crushing our enemies, like we used to. The BS excuses of "disproportional warfare" is doing what it's designed to do by needlessly prolonging conflicts when that's not necessary.

Having a PC military trying to fight a PC "war" is not the way to win a decisive victory. Patton weeps.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 05, 2013 08:58 AM (yiIja)

At 45 I can't enlist on the front lines as a guy. Why? Because I am not a strong as 20 year old guy (although I lift weights), don't have the endurance (although I jog) and am more prone to injury (although I am in good shape). But in every single one of these categories I would do better than 99.99% of all women, even those half my age.

So if you need fighting people you would go for "old" guys like me before you put women on the front line. But this whole concept is not about putting a force together for killing our enemy, but about political correctness, nothing more.

Posted by: whatever at January 05, 2013 08:59 AM (++uBO)

24 What is it with women not in the military angrily demanding that women in the military be on the front lines?

Is this an anger thing? Wanting to punish the women who are in the military?

My perpetually-suspicious mind tells me that it's another leftist feint designed to sow uncertainty and discord amongst both the armed forces and the civilian populace.

And Cicero is right, I think: the first time we see video aired of a female soldier brutalized in Afghanistan, the public is going to demand either (A. withdrawal immediately, or (B. howl for an absolute bloodbath in retribution.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at January 05, 2013 09:00 AM (bggxH)

25 Posted by: Vic at January 05, 2013 12:56 PM (53z96)

True, but I didn't want to clutter the post with that sort of stuff. I think that we all know what combat v.s. non-combat is.

Driving a supply truck to a FOB in Shitcanistan is combat, no matter how the REMFs define it.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 05, 2013 09:00 AM (GsoHv)

26 Kinley Ardal, have you forgotten about Jessica Lynch during the invasion of Iraq?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 05, 2013 09:01 AM (HXcdb)

27 A woman in distress makes a man do funny things, military training or no. Barracks would have to be doubled, along with some other infrastructure. Only about 1 in 1,000 (wild guess) women is physically strong enough to do what men do in combat OTOH, I bet women would make fine snipers.

Posted by: That Truman Fellow at January 05, 2013 09:01 AM (I2LwF)

28 Indeed. As an example, the Romans fielded some very capable female front-line heavy combat troops, a key feature which was emulated by other successful armies throughout history.

NOT.

Posted by: Helen Mucus at January 05, 2013 09:02 AM (P1xyf)

29 BUT... The military's primary role is no longer killing people and breaking things. It's social and cultural engineering. Putting women in very conceivable role would certainly aid in that.

Posted by: That Truman Fellow at January 05, 2013 09:02 AM (I2LwF)

30 ...I have, Anna Puma, and I am ashamed to realize it.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at January 05, 2013 09:03 AM (bggxH)

Even the Nazis, when the jig was clearly up, didn't put women in combat. It's insanity.

Posted by: USS Diversity at January 05, 2013 09:03 AM (MPjT8)

32 We should have been out of Iraq and Afghanistan both long ago. I would say about a week before Obama took office the last troop should have been arriving back here.

We have no strategy there now, no goal, and no mission other than to cover Obama's political ass and be a target.

And I do blame Bush for that. He should have known better than to leave GI's in harm's way when we have a Demonrat President.

Posted by: Vic at January 05, 2013 09:03 AM (53z96)

33 How long will a female-heavy front line hold when the enemy deploys spiders?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 05, 2013 09:03 AM (ehEyA)

34 Women seem to do okay in actual combat. There are a few convoy guards who were cited for valor and good tactics in Iraq. What they can't do is carry a 120 pound pack up the side of a mountain and fight when they get to the top. Combat loads are crazy these days, and it's worse in Afghanistan because of the terrain and the fact that you need to carry more water.

Posted by: Ace's liver at January 05, 2013 09:04 AM (1+XRG)

35 Glad to see you got your dildo back Charlie :-)

Posted by: Bosk at January 05, 2013 09:05 AM (QkFee)

36 Fighting ground wars with troops is insane when we have the capacity to annihilate our enemies.

Ground troops should only be used for looting and pillaging in the aftermath.

Posted by: Fritz at January 05, 2013 09:05 AM (w3+gB)

37 Would it be like Starship Troopers with the co-ed showers?

http://tinyurl.com/aplepnt

NSFW

Posted by: EC at January 05, 2013 09:06 AM (doBIb)

38 Make them the first wave on every beach landing. Give the feminazis what they want. Let it fucking burn their way. We lost, they won, so I say fuck it -- I'm sure women make just as good cannon fodder as men.

Posted by: Ed Anger at January 05, 2013 09:06 AM (tOkJB)

39 Bikini girls with machine guns would make a fine addition to the USO.

Posted by: That Truman Fellow at January 05, 2013 09:07 AM (I2LwF)

40 I have no problem with the basic argument that women should be allowed in combat positions. and being a fair minded person, I want them to have the exact same options as their male counterparts. If the branch of service you join needs bodies for infantry, that is the enlistment options you are given. or, as it says in Title Ten of the US code..... The mission of the Navy is to maintain preparedness to conduct prompt and sustained combat operations at sea. if one tends to get seasick, perhaps the Navy is not your best career choice.

Posted by: VIA, on the tiny keyboard at January 05, 2013 09:07 AM (dS6kn)

41 If you'd balk at having a female quarterback for your favorite pro football team, consider that combat is like that, but life and death.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at January 05, 2013 09:09 AM (uhAkr)

42 33 How long will a female-heavy front line hold when the enemy deploys spiders?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 05, 2013 01:03 PM (ehEyA)

If the female front line consists of people like my daughter and AtC....about a nanosecond.

Posted by: Tami at January 05, 2013 09:09 AM (X6akg)

43 My sister has been a marine for 10 years. She has been deployable for 6 months. While she was deployed she spent the entire time in sick bay or looking for someone to knock her up.

Posted by: That Truman Fellow at January 05, 2013 09:10 AM (I2LwF)

44 http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/03/after_action_re.html

Posted by: Ace's liver at January 05, 2013 09:10 AM (1+XRG)

45 Anecdote, sure. But men don't get knocked up.

Posted by: That Truman Fellow at January 05, 2013 09:11 AM (I2LwF)

46 Why do I get the feeling the only women in the US armed forces that want to see women in combat roles are a few officers who want to get that particular ticket punched so they can eventually command a combat arms unit?

And as for women in combat, the commies, in WW II, used them as snipers and fighter pilots, but after the war, stopped that practice.

So, yeah, if you are fighting for your very existence, it makes sense. Otherwise, not so much.

Posted by: Josef K. at January 05, 2013 09:12 AM (tOkJB)

47 In these supposedly enlightened times, I was at my daughter's pinning ceremony for new nurses last month. Out of a class of 32, exactly one was a guy. This is in spite of policies in place that make it easier for guys to get accepted to nursing school.

It's almost like there are biological differences between the sexes.

Go figure.

Posted by: GnuBreed at January 05, 2013 09:13 AM (cHZB7)

How long will a female-heavy front line hold when the enemy deploys spiders?
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 05, 2013 01:03 PM (ehEyA)

======

Ha Ha or mice.

Posted by: USS Diversity at January 05, 2013 09:14 AM (MPjT8)

49 "The job I want to do in the military does not include combat arms," Army Sgt. Cherry Sweat said of infantry, armor and artillery occupations. She installed communications equipment in 2008 in Iraq but doesn't feel mentally or physically prepared for fighting missions.

Who named that poor girl?!

Posted by: Tami at January 05, 2013 09:15 AM (X6akg)

50 The longest time American military women have been held POW is WWII. When Gen. Wainwright surrendered in the Philippines US Army nurses were sent to Santo Tomas and there they stayed until liberated by American forces.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 05, 2013 09:15 AM (HXcdb)

51 I think women may be suited for combat helicopter duty. Requires a lot of multi-tasking, something women seem good at.

Posted by: Eaton Cox at January 05, 2013 09:15 AM (q177U)

52 31
Even the Nazis, when the jig was clearly up, didn't put women in combat. It's insanity.

Posted by: USS Diversity at January 05, 2013 01:03 PM (MPjT

I am not sure about that. Get a hundred menopausal women together and they could kill anything. Especially a hard on.

Posted by: Billy Bob, Pseudo Intellectual at January 05, 2013 09:16 AM (wR+pz)

53 I assume the IDF has chicks in the front lines? Then again, Israel is a tiny nation and needs all the troops it can muster.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 05, 2013 09:16 AM (XkWWK)

54 43 My sister has been a marine for 10 years. She has been deployable for 6 months. While she was deployed she spent the entire time in sick bay or looking for someone to knock her up. Posted by: That Truman Fellow at January 05, 2013 01:10 PM (I2LwF) I knew a couple bitches like that when I went over. I actually got my slot to get deployed based on some scrunt getting pregnant in the week between our warno and our actual orders starting to come down. She didn't even have to prove it, my unit just said ok and put me in her fucking spot on their books and off I went. Tell your fucking sister I hate her guts, and that she should get discharged as soon as possible. She is not fit to wear the uniform and she disgusts me, she's a fucking disgrace. If you would tell her that for me is appreciate it.

Posted by: Spoily McSpoilerson at January 05, 2013 09:16 AM (EoaNf)

55 If being a sniper consisted of just accurate shooting , women would probably make good snipers . Now,, having seen what marine snipers , for example , have to carry in the way of gear in addition to their pig of a rifle and optics out the ying yang , it's kinda' doubtful the vast majority of wimmens could do it . Hell , I don't know if I could have done it my twenties and I used to be pretty tough , in my salad days . The young men we have these days doing their thing on the pointy end are really something special .

Posted by: awkward davies at January 05, 2013 09:16 AM (USjX1)

"Much has happened for women since then in American society and the military."

Until these "happenings" involve major changes to physiology, there's still going to be the same limitations on women serving in the infantry that have existed for the last few thousand years of recorded history.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at January 05, 2013 09:17 AM (IgvLC)

57 tami snicker

Posted by: phoenixgirl, Merry 12th day of Christmas at January 05, 2013 09:18 AM (GVxQo)

58 Tami, Cherry and Sweat. Oh my. Did her parents want to curse her?

Though there is one time the US Navy launched an all female flight crew in an F-14 for combat. It was nine hours long that mission. One of the crew, her call sign was Nooner, and she eschewed fitting a Depends before taking off. So when she finally trapped aboard, well it was sight to see as she ran for the head.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 05, 2013 09:19 AM (HXcdb)

59 I did a Reserve hitch at SIMA in Norfolk. Ship's Intermediate Maintenance Activity---we called it Ship's Intermediate Maternity Activity...ever chick that got sick of being deployed just got themselves knocked up and sent there. That meant fewer shore billets for guys.

Posted by: USS Diversity at January 05, 2013 09:20 AM (MPjT8)

60 pointy elbows up

Posted by: Vic at January 05, 2013 09:21 AM (53z96)

61 I assume the IDF has chicks in the front lines?

Then again, Israel is a tiny nation and needs all the troops it can muster.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 05, 2013 01:16 PM (XkWWK)

It is my understanding that Israel tried this. The problem with it turned out to be that male soldiers would take unnecessary risks both to protect the female soldiers and to "show boat" for them. It was militaristically unworkable.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 05, 2013 09:21 AM (bb5+k)

62 59 I did a Reserve hitch at SIMA in Norfolk. Ship's Intermediate Maintenance Activity---we called it Ship's Intermediate Maternity Activity...ever chick that got sick of being deployed just got themselves knocked up and sent there. That meantfewer shore billets for guys. Posted by: USS Diversity at January 05, 2013 01:20 PM (MPjT

I do not think its possible to use words to describe how much I hate them.

Posted by: Spoily McSpoilerson at January 05, 2013 09:22 AM (EoaNf)

>>How long will a female-heavy front line hold when the enemy deploys spiders?
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 05, 2013 01:03 PM (ehEyA)
======
>>Ha Ha or mice.

Every time my husband is deployed, I end up dealing with live bugs in the house and dead critters in the yard.

Clearly, I'm ready for combat.

Posted by: Mama AJ at January 05, 2013 09:22 AM (SUKHu)

Of course you never hear about all the male/female bullshit that mixed gender units have to deal with on a daily. fucking. basis. that has nothing to do with physical performance. Nobody or no study EVER reports that crap.

Having been in a few of these in my time, I shudder to think of the complications caused by close quarters living, high optempo, and mortal danger to something already complicated by way too much bullshit.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at January 05, 2013 09:23 AM (IgvLC)

65 The needle on my give-a-shit-o-meter seems to be stuck at zero.

Posted by: Al at January 05, 2013 09:23 AM (V70Uh)

66 Women are here to make porn and make babies. Why any woman would vote Republican is beyond me.

Posted by: Ted Kennedy...from beyond the grave at January 05, 2013 09:23 AM (x9s9/)

67 I'm paraphrasing an article I read written by a female liaison who worked with special forces...someone correct me....anyhoo She was pretty adamant that as physically fit as she was (and she was), the carrying, the hiking, everything broke her down physically much faster than her male counterparts. I don't know the exact physiology of it, but it made sense. Male and female bodies are different.

Posted by: mare at January 05, 2013 09:24 AM (A98Xu)

68 The only consideration there should be for the job is "does it make the military better"? I suppose it's crazy, but I'd like to see one sphere of life, just that one, in which political interests didn't enter into the discussion. National defense would seem to be a good candidate.

Posted by: pep at January 05, 2013 09:24 AM (6TB1Z)

69 Probably one of the most screwed up mixed gender units was the one at Abu Gharib.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 05, 2013 09:24 AM (HXcdb)

70 Women in combat positions decreases the effectiveness of any unit and does it moreso when actually in combat.

I therefore deem it necessary to immediately implement, by Executive Order, the elimination of all such blatant discrimination against women in combat positions within the US military. The loss of a few more lives and decreased combat effectiveness of deployed US Forces is a small price to pay to defeat the Republicans in their ongoing War On Women.

Posted by: Barry "Executive Order" Ochoomba at January 05, 2013 09:24 AM (Cnqmv)

71 So if you need fighting people you would go for "old" guys like me before you put women on the front line. But this whole concept is not about putting a force together for killing our enemy, but about political correctness, nothing more.

Posted by: whatever at January 05, 2013 12:59 PM (++uBO)

I will point out that during the Russian revolution, the White forces created women brigades. They did not acquit themselves well. They did however provide entertainment for the victorious Red troops after the battle.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 05, 2013 09:25 AM (bb5+k)

72 I was in a mixed gender unit once. All the dudes had boobs and all the chicks had dicks. It was nuts! I loved it!

Posted by: Ted Kennedy...from beyond the grave at January 05, 2013 09:25 AM (x9s9/)

Posted by: Spoily McSpoilerson at January 05, 2013 01:22 PM (EoaNf)

=======

I get it. It was damned disgraceful then, and that wasn't even hazardous duty. I can't imagine what goes on now.

Posted by: USS Diversity at January 05, 2013 09:26 AM (MPjT8)

74 The Soviets deployed them as snipers and pilots. One all-female aviation unit known as the Night Witches flew ground attack harassment missions in old biplanes.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 05, 2013 09:26 AM (XkWWK)

75 Posted by: Spoily McSpoilerson at January 05, 2013 01:16 PM (EoaNf) "I knew a couple bitches like that when I went over. I actually got my slot to get deployed based on some scrunt getting pregnant in the week between our warno and our actual orders starting to come down. She didn't even have to prove it, my unit just said ok and put me in her fucking spot on their books and off I went. Tell your fucking sister I hate her guts, and that she should get discharged as soon as possible. She is not fit to wear the uniform and she disgusts me, she's a fucking disgrace. " I hate hearing that. It is a disgrace. I do believe there are a majority of females serving that do their part, without question. However, I can't prove that.

Posted by: mare at January 05, 2013 09:27 AM (A98Xu)

76 Well, once a month an all female battalion would really clean the enemies' clocks, so there's that!

Posted by: Hrothgar - LIB or SMOD (for the Children) at January 05, 2013 09:27 AM (Cnqmv)

77 J.J. Sefton they flew Po-2s. In the South Pacific such were called Bedcheck Charlies. Never really hit anything but kept you awake, which wore you down quicker. Which made aircraft like the P-70, P-38M, and P-61 important.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 05, 2013 09:28 AM (HXcdb)

78 68 The only consideration there should be for the job is "does it make the military better"? I suppose it's crazy, but I'd like to see one sphere of life, just that one, in which political interests didn't enter into the discussion. National defense would seem to be a good candidate. Posted by: pep at January 05, 2013 01:24 PM (6TB1Z) Well said.

Posted by: mare at January 05, 2013 09:28 AM (A98Xu)

79 Meat in a waitress sammich.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 05, 2013 09:28 AM (XkWWK)

80 I saw the videos from Abu Ghraib. I stroked myself silly for 40 days and 40 nights. Is Carrie Fischer still seeing Chris Dodd? Maybe I should give him a call. Oh, wait, I'm dead. Damnit.

Posted by: Ted Kennedy...from beyond the grave at January 05, 2013 09:28 AM (x9s9/)

81 Kinley Ardal, have you forgotten about Jessica Lynch during the invasion of Iraq?

Posted by: Anna Puma at January 05, 2013 01:01 PM (HXcdb)

Do you mean pro or con? I assume Pro, if you believe the propaganda spewed, Con if you know what the truth turned out to be.

While we're on the topic, does anyone remember Kara Hultgreen? Yeah, that was a good idea.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 05, 2013 09:29 AM (bb5+k)

82 77 Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 05, 2013 01:28 PM (HXcdb) Hey, I see you are an aviation nut.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 05, 2013 09:29 AM (XkWWK)

I, for one, welcome the addtion of the Mobile Army Strip Clubs unit augmented with a detachment from the 69th Brigade Belly Dancing specialists.

It's time to earn your tassels, girls! Man those poles. Go for broke!

Posted by: Count de Monet at January 05, 2013 09:29 AM (BAS5M)

84
And I do blame Bush for that. He should have known better than to leave GI's in harm's way when we have a Demonrat President.

Posted by: Vic at January 05, 2013 01:03 PM (53z96)

I blame George Bush for a lot of things. He set the standard of reckless spending, and knowing the Democrats, that's all it took to justify them doing four times as much of it.

Anyone who has been paying attention for the last 30 years ought to have known that Democrats will use ANY excuse to spend, and if Republicans do the same thing, you have lost the argument.

George Bush very badly damaged the Republican brand, as did his Father.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 05, 2013 09:32 AM (bb5+k)

85 I am a male Air Force veteran and I'd be lying if I said women in combat aren't a hindrance and distraction to the mission. They are physically weaker and men instinctively protect them from harm.
I agree that women can fulfill support positions, but the rest is PC crap.

Posted by: nraendowment at January 05, 2013 09:33 AM (Msv+6)

86
I don't know the exact physiology of it, but it made sense. Male and female bodies are different.

Posted by: mare at January 05, 2013 01:24 PM (A98Xu)

Male bodies are evolved to fight. Females pick the winners to have children with.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 05, 2013 09:35 AM (bb5+k)

87 I know of Kara Hultgreen and her last flight.

She and her RIO were flying an F-14A. Lining up for approach. The LSO waved her off. As she started to bank left the left TF-30 piece of ever living fraking cr*ptastic engine decided to flame out. So there was Kara in a Turkey trying to do a go around and pushing the throttles forward when the engine on the banking side dies on her. Even with ADC and auto-sweep, losing half your thrust in an almost 70,000lb plane low and slow. So the plane started to roll into the dead engine when someone grabbed the yellow/black handles. So RIO and then pilot sequence ejected. RIO's GRU-7 launched within the safe envelope but by the time the sequencer got to Hultgreen she was outside the safe ejection envelope. That is how she died.

I am not being pro and con on Lynch. I was just pointing out it had already happened.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 05, 2013 09:35 AM (HXcdb)

88 I guess with women in combat roles it would give new meaning to the old battle cry, "......once more into the breach"!

Posted by: Soona at January 05, 2013 09:37 AM (e9eRd)

89 We had a really hot Division Officer in boot camp. We had to get warned not to make any rude gestures or have certain parts of out bodies come to attention during her final personnel inspection.

Posted by: USS Diversity at January 05, 2013 09:39 AM (MPjT8)

90 How Hultgreen died was pretty cr*ppy. That can happen to any Naval aviator. Which is why Navy wings are made of gold.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 05, 2013 09:41 AM (HXcdb)

91 I know of Kara Hultgreen and her last flight.

Posted by: Anna Puma at January 05, 2013 01:35 PM (HXcdb)

That sounds like the official re-write. My understanding from reading the accounts at the time were that she caused the flame out by shadowing her engine's intake with the fuselage. i.e. she wasn't steering correctly at low speed.

I also understand that they forced her through flight school and she really hadn't qualified but because Clinton was pushing it, they let her through by looking the other way on her mistakes.

In the Navy's efforts to avert blame from her, they put male pilots through a simulator in which they intentionally shut off their engine on a carrier landing approach. Most of them couldn't recover, but it completely ignores the point. SHE flamed out her own engine through bad flying. She was passed to fly even though she either wasn't ready, or wasn't able to do the job.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 05, 2013 09:44 AM (bb5+k)

92 I dunno, fellas. Some of the movies I've seen coming out of Hollywood depict badass chicks in tight outfits whoopin' the shit out of innumerable guys with martial arts kicks and chops and by wrapping their weenie-squeezers around dudes heads and whipping them to the ground.

And these bitches can make a sammich like nobody's business.

Posted by: Fritz at January 05, 2013 09:49 AM (w3+gB)

93 Sharing foxholes not a problem: http://tinyurl.com/bjoc2on

Posted by: DAve at January 05, 2013 09:49 AM (XDC0v)

94 Compromise, compromise. The most recorded kills a female sniper has is over 300 by one Lyudmilla Pavilchencko, a Russian snipers. Those of you who noted the Nazis dint use female soldiers in their hour of need clearly need a few history lessons on the Red Army. Lots of Marines I know who are giant "pogues" (non infantry) talk shit about females, but they forget about gals like Miss Lyudmilla. Women can be snipers, tank drivers, combat aviators (as much as I hate to admit, seeing as I'm in the aviation program and I happen to be the owner of a lovely dick, women have faster reflexes) and other such combat roles. Straight up infantry though, with a heavy pack, is definitely something I don't think can happen.

Posted by: Danny at January 05, 2013 09:50 AM (kra8Q)

95 *didn't

Posted by: Danny at January 05, 2013 09:50 AM (kra8Q)

96 You can say what you like DiopgenesLamp. But there are facts.

The TF-30 was a piece of junk that would explode, sending blade fragments slicing through fuel cells and wrecking the working engine. It had so many limits of how to fly it the pilots never flew the F-14A, they were flying the engines to ensure the smoothest airflow always got to it. Sec. of the Navy Lehman in Congressional testimony even called the engine junk.

What you are referring to is not shadowing, but blanking the engine. The TF-30 during the wave off got a ripple of disturbed air which caused a flame out is what you are saying. The F-14Bs and Ds with the GE F-110 have never suffered this airflow disruption problem.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 05, 2013 09:53 AM (HXcdb)

Those of you who noted the Nazis dint use female soldiers in their hour of need clearly need a few history lessons on the Red Army.

======

One has to do with the other, how?

Posted by: USS Diversity at January 05, 2013 09:53 AM (MPjT8)

98 @96
Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. Back to the kitchen!

Posted by: pep at January 05, 2013 09:55 AM (6TB1Z)

99 Those of you who noted the Nazis dint use female soldiers in their hour of need clearly need a few history lessons on the Red Army. ------ Huh? The Nazis didn't use female soldiers. If you have info thats states so please share.

Posted by: RWC at January 05, 2013 09:57 AM (sqp6o)

100 I supervised a WM Gunny who, when attacked at lunch break by her husband's boa constrictor just waited it out until the snake forgot what it was doing. Then she put it in a box out on the lawn with a note that said, "It goes or you go" and she came back to work.

Posted by: SurferDoc at January 05, 2013 09:57 AM (6H6FZ)

101 Male bodies are evolved to fight. Females pick the winners to have children with. Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 05, 2013 01:35 PM (bb5+k) There is a lot of truth in that.

Posted by: mare at January 05, 2013 09:59 AM (A98Xu)

102 I have a buddy that was T38 instructor around this time, they were forced to pass on both women and blacks that would have been bounced otherwise. PC has no place the armed forces. http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/articles/95/costly-affirmative-action.htm Documents obtained by Elaine Donnelly, director of CMR, shows that Lt. Hultgreen not only had subpar performance on several phases of her training but had four "downs" (major errors), just one or two of which are sufficient to justify the dismissal of a trainee. The White House and Congress' political pressure to get more women in combat is the direct cause of Lt. Hultgreen's death. But the story doesn't end there. A second female F-14A pilot, identified by Elaine Donnelly only as Pilot B, has been allowed to continue training despite marginal scores and seven "downs", the last of which was not recorded so she could pass the final stages of training.

Posted by: Rob in Katy at January 05, 2013 10:00 AM (PiTBB)

103 I'll believe that the leftists are serious about women in combat when they make all women register for the draft at 18 like every male is required to do. Do that first, then if the feminazis really want to talk about equality in the ranks, we'll be able to have a meaningful conversation. Otherwise, it's all bullshit.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 05, 2013 10:02 AM (MBqvE)

104 Yeah that pregnancy thing is a major problem. There's always abortion. There's also discharge. Bigger question: if we ever have another draft, would it be unconstitutional to exempt women? The last challenge was around 1971 or '72-- well, it was years earlier but that's when the USSC got around to it. Basically, the result was "no, not unconstitutional because there are so few areas for women to serve that it would undermine military effectiveness". Another undercurrent of the decision reflected the attitude towards women through the 60's. You know, women are/should be secretaries, teachers, nurses, and mothers. Today? Major due process and equal protection problems.

Posted by: SFGoth at January 05, 2013 10:04 AM (oCZ5c)

105 I believe Michael Yon has written reports that he is a witness to the fact that they are already fighting combat. They may not be officially labeled as such, but they have ended up fighting in combats zones in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Don't believe me? Ask hi

Posted by: Here we go again at January 05, 2013 10:07 AM (vA9kU)

106 The Nazis didn't use female soldiers. Hell, until 1943 they hardly mobilized women for factory work/war support. It would have been useless in late 1944 or 1945 to draft women -- what kind of training would you have given them? It's not like they had innate aggressiveness like their male counterparts. Besides, there would have been riots at that point given how widespread the hate for the Nazi regime was by then.

Posted by: SFGoth at January 05, 2013 10:07 AM (oCZ5c)

107 If they're going to continue to emphasize winning hearts and minds then I'd suppose women are more natural to that role.

I think wars should only be fought to completely break the enemy, leaving compassion to the clean up crew.

But in tightly budgeted combat arms school planning, you'd think you would want go with the gender that has proven beyond all doubt that it has the highest percentage of natural born killers.
A distinction that should only be valued in this one necessary circumstance.

Posted by: ontherocks at January 05, 2013 10:08 AM (aZ6ew)

108

102.... PC has no place the armed forces.

This!

It should all be based on proficiency.

Pure proficiency, too...not the watered-down PC versions.

And I agree with IllTemperedCur about having women register for the draft at 18.

If the feminazis were really serious about equality, they'd be screaming for that.

Posted by: wheatie at January 05, 2013 10:10 AM (dC04t)

109 So why was $80 million reprogrammed in 1996 to install a Digital Flight Control System [DFCS] in the F-14A fleet to replace the Analog Flight Control System [AFCS]? Maybe because of the 35 departure from controlled flight accidents that included landings and high AoA mishaps.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 05, 2013 10:11 AM (HXcdb)

110 Wasn't there a female MP who was awarded Bronze/Silver? star for her actions in a firefight in Iraq?

Posted by: BignJames at January 05, 2013 10:19 AM (HtUkt)

111 Posted by: Here we go again at January 05, 2013 02:07 PM (vA9kU)

I would hesitate to use Michael Yon as a source for anything. He has an agenda a mile wide and a mile deep.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 05, 2013 10:20 AM (GsoHv)

112 "I'm paraphrasing an article I read written by a female liaison who worked with special forces...someone correct me....anyhoo She was pretty adamant that as physically fit as she was (and she was), the carrying, the hiking, everything broke her down physically much faster than her male counterparts."

Not spec ops. Just working as an officer with the Marine infantry in the field, doing engineering under remote, austere combat conditions.

The Marine in question was a former star collegiate athlete and weightlifter, who came close to maxing out the female version of the Marine PFT. But just a relatively short stint being required to do what is required of male Marine infantrymen in the field was enough to physically break her.

She said that if that situation had continued, it would have sufficed to ruin her USMC career and force her into medical retirement. She very bravely defied the institutional consensus to speak out against it.

http://tinyurl.com/av8fuwl

I am happy to have women serve in any capacity whatsoever for which they are qualified, including physically qualified, and for which they can pass the necessary training and tests without a deliberate lowering of the bar.

Unfortunately, what we have seen in the last quarter-century has been a triumph of leftist political correctness over objective assessment. The diversity commissars are forcing women into jobs those women aren't able to do well enough at for brute biological reasons. It'll end with failures in readiness, disastrous combat defeats, and both women and men dying and being permanently crippled for no good reason.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 05, 2013 10:22 AM (gqT4g)

113 Michael Yon has a very strong negative vibe in the operators communities in the military because he acts like Andi Sullivan.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 05, 2013 10:27 AM (HXcdb)

114

Does this mean the military is going to lose the lower standards women have for PT tests? If we are all equal, why are there two different standards we are measured by?

Posted by: Invictus at January 05, 2013 10:28 AM (OQpzc)

115 114 Does this mean the military is going to lose the lower standards women have for PT tests? If we are all equal, why are there two different standards we are measured by? Posted by: Invictus at January 05, 2013 02:28 PM (OQpzc
PLEASE report immediately for your PC adjustment session. Your statement is a scream in teh night for enlightenment.

Posted by: Your Government Betters at January 05, 2013 10:31 AM (/jHWN)

116 Tsk tsk Invictus. You are dealing with that reality based community remember. Ideology always triumphs over cold reality. So the beatings will continue until morale improves.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 05, 2013 10:32 AM (HXcdb)

117 Eliminate armed guards for the President, Vice-President, and their families, and establish Gun Free Zones around them

Gun Free Zones are supposed to protect our children, and some politicians wish to strip us of our right to keep and bear arms. Those same politicians and their families are currently under the protection of armed Secret Service agents. If Gun Free Zones are sufficient protection for our children, then Gun Free Zones should be good enough for politicians.

Posted by: Pres**ent Barack “Unexpectedly” Obama at January 05, 2013 10:35 AM (e8kgV)

118 Combat exoskeletons coming soon to a female soldier near you. I like the idea of women registering for the draft. If equality is not a bitch, it isn't equality.

Posted by: eman at January 05, 2013 10:51 AM (EWsrI)

119 Silly me. Sometimes I forget every single word uttered by government is propaganda. I would like to be a mind numbed drone. They seem quite happy. I just can't.

Posted by: Invictus at January 05, 2013 10:53 AM (OQpzc)

120 There's a famous photo from the Vietnam war of Marines bringing in KIAs from Operation Buffalo, very high casualties,bodies heaped on tanks, arms and legs sprawled everywhere, rivers of blood running . There were also a lot of Custer's Last Stand type situations then at small unit level. A significant amount of female troops being slaughtered in actions like these would shock the American people to their core I believe, even more than would happen to an all male force.

Posted by: JHW at January 05, 2013 10:55 AM (B38OD)

121 hey! check out my new sock!

Posted by: Elizabeth Warren's bikini line holding back the gray curlies at January 05, 2013 11:05 AM (jfSqj)

122 Y'all take the guns and accessories and go get in the killin' bidness. God love ya, sugarbritches. Us, we'll hang back and watch some football, work on that slice, tune up the GT. Make sure the beer 'fridge downstairs is loaded up before you leave. And try not to lose, or whatever. The win-loss is lookin' kinda shaky since Number Two.

Posted by: General Zod at January 05, 2013 11:10 AM (2+bRt)

123 USS Diversity, the Soviets used women in their hour of need, and I reckon that 300+ kills by a women sniper (one of many) is somewhat more kills than is racked up by your typical USMC grunt bitching about how women are incapable of being warriors. My point in comparing the Soviet and the Nazis militaries is valid if for no other reason than the fact that they were contemporaries and arch foes. Anyone arguing that women have no role in combat are ignoring historical precedent, although I temper that analysis by stating that some combat jobs will always remain male exclusive.

Posted by: Danny at January 05, 2013 11:17 AM (kra8Q)

124 Oh damnit I see now. No I never once made the extremely dubious claim that the Nazis used female soldiers. My entire point was based on Soviet female soldiers....because they did have them (in sniper and combat aviator roles), and their enemies had none. Seriously, sorry for the confusion my fellow morons

Posted by: Danny at January 05, 2013 11:23 AM (kra8Q)

125 And yes the Marines are trying to adjust the Physical Fitness Test system. Time was, 20 pull-ups (dead hang mind you) for a male=perfect score. 70 second hang for females=perfect score. But now USMC leadership is indeed modifying it and requiring women to do pull-ups, although their perfect score will be 8 for women. Not perfect, but a step toward true equality. So there you have it morons, your USMC isn't all fucked up. Rah?

Posted by: Danny at January 05, 2013 11:27 AM (kra8Q)

126 precedent, although I temper that analysis by stating that some combat jobs will always remain male exclusive.

Posted by: Danny at January 05, 2013 03:17 PM (kra8Q)

I tend to disbelieve Soviet propaganda. YMMV.

Posted by: Invictus at January 05, 2013 11:27 AM (OQpzc)

127 The Soviets did have a few female combat aces. I found this out when I got shot down by one playing IL-2 Sturmovik. Really pissed me off at the time, haha. She got me good.

Posted by: Cowboy at January 05, 2013 11:35 AM (vNrFq)

128 Micheal Yon might have an agenda, but so does Ace, Uncle Jimbo, Malkin, Maddow....I'm a moron because I share most of the Moron Ideology (probably a lot more civil libertarian than many on here, but still). And Yon makes valid points:namely that in a country where we build schools that remain empty because Afghani Hazara and Pashtun can't bear to send their children to the same school we have no hope of changing the culture....unless we want to stay there forever. And no one, whether SCOAMF or our beloved Romney wants that. The war isn't lost, it's unwinnable at this point. Lets face it, I love W. (and Cheney, that mofo made me feel safe knowing he could choke out a terrorist, unlike Bidenopouls) but he truly ignored Afghan. Afghan is over 2x as big as Iraq and yet we had 4 army aviation brigades there compared to 1 in Afghan...clearly our priority wasn't Afghan, and we are paying dearly for that. You don't have to be a liberal pussy to realize that at this point , we have much bigger fish to fry than Taliban. This war has made us Pakistans bitch. And that country-which is an islamofascist nation with nuclear bombs and thus invulnerable for large scale intervention by our forces, spec ops aside- is probably the biggest cause for instability in our dying child, Afghanistan. On a humorous note Yon makes less dick jokes than the Black Five guys-as a Marine I already get enough jokes at work lmao

Posted by: Danny at January 05, 2013 11:38 AM (kra8Q)

129 Invictus, is it truly Soviet propaganda that a Stalingrad native armed with a sniper rifle and special oil lube for her rifle to prevent it freezing over (that's what she said! jk- which her German foes haven't yet heard of) could cap a bunch of Nazis? For historical perspective, more Soviet soldiers died in an hour at Stalingrad than did US soldiers during all of WWII. So yeah dude, chicks can fuck shit up. And thanks for making me give Soviets a compliment -As if I didn't hate them enough already for the gulags haha

Posted by: Danny at January 05, 2013 11:43 AM (kra8Q)

130 >>The war isn't lost, it's unwinnable at this point.<< The ice cream isn't melted, it's liquid.

Posted by: General Zod at January 05, 2013 11:46 AM (2+bRt)

131 Spoily McSpoilerson, if that's you're real name, I hate you with the heat of a thousand suns. I haven't been checking into the HQ for three weeks and the first time I check in I get this Jordan spoiler. Do you realize some people have been reading this series for their entire adult lives? That closure is required to move one? WTF is your problem? Why would you do that to someone!!!!!!!!??!!!!!! Luckily, I managed to not read your post as soon as a figured out what you were doing, so you failed. I don't even care if you are joking and lying about everything. You suck. You didn't see any brownshirts telling what happened in the movie Serenity did you? Why couldn't you take a clue from them? Show some fan solidarity? hi everyone else who is not an asshole.

Posted by: elizabethe at January 05, 2013 11:53 AM (jwHRs)

132 hi everyone else who is not an asshole.

Posted by: elizabethe at January 05, 2013 03:53 PM (jwHRs)

That did suck. I never saw Matt being the the avatar of the Creator coming. Color me shocked.

Posted by: Invictus at January 05, 2013 11:55 AM (OQpzc)

133 hi everyone else who is not an asshole.
Posted by: elizabethe at January 05, 2013 03:53 PM (jwHRs)

you need to use the term qualifier "complete asshole" here, because everyone here is an asshole to some degree, but only a select few are complete ones!

Posted by: Hrothgar - LIB or SMOD (for the Children) at January 05, 2013 12:19 PM (Cnqmv)

134 Hrothgar noted and agreed partial asshole are fine

Posted by: Elizabethe at January 05, 2013 12:21 PM (jwHRs)

135 Told you Cowboy...faster reflexes than us dudes. IL2 is the shit- by the way, it's all about the P-47...

Posted by: Danny at January 05, 2013 12:28 PM (kra8Q)

136 General Zod, "lost" implies defeat, utter loss and waste. "Unwinnable in this context means "we've won just about every single engagement with the Taliban and Al Qaeda forces in Afghan, but we still have a corrupt government, a nation full of illegal opium production, and a nation so mired in internecine hatreds that stability is an illusion which even our constant victories cannot bring. Thus, in light of other threats we ought to be elsewhere. " Care to give me and alternate and feasible strategy, eh General?

Posted by: Danny at January 05, 2013 12:36 PM (kra8Q)

137 Hi Elizabethe!

Stopped reading the Wheel of Time oh about book six. Glacial I tell you was how that series moved.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 05, 2013 12:38 PM (HXcdb)

138 Care to give me and alternate and feasible strategy, eh General?

Posted by: Danny at January 05, 2013 04:36 PM (kra8Q)

Nuke them from orbit?

Posted by: Invictus at January 05, 2013 12:45 PM (OQpzc)

139

the Soviets used women in their hour of need, and I reckon that 300+ kills by a women sniper

Not taking anything away from her, but the Soviets used to exaggerate the shit out of everything they did, so I'd take that number with a grain of salt.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at January 05, 2013 12:48 PM (4u2LN)

140

we still have a corrupt government, a nation full of illegal opium production, and a nation so mired in internecine hatreds that stability is an illusion

Sounds kinda like here, except for the opium part.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at January 05, 2013 12:49 PM (4u2LN)

141 Well Jay, with all the demand for drugs in this country the piece of shit narcotrafficers bring plenty of opium here too. And at least I can enjoy the spectacle of barely clothed sorority girls at my university's rec center. Point taken though.

Posted by: Danny at January 05, 2013 12:53 PM (kra8Q)

142 >>Care to give me and alternate and feasible strategy, eh General?<< Sure. Leave. I think you've made my case for me. Nothing I saw in Iraq led me to believe that that was a chess-match with a possible checkmate; more like Whack-A-Mole with an indulgent uncle pretty set for quarters.

Posted by: General Zod at January 05, 2013 12:53 PM (2+bRt)

143 Oh Invictus, were it so easy.... And Jay, that's true, Soviets did exaggerate the shit out of everything, but come on most male soldiers in our military are pogues (non infantry). Soviet chicks did take out nazis soldiers as snipers or aircraft as pilots,thus proving that the fair sex, properly deployed, can handle combat

Posted by: Danny at January 05, 2013 12:56 PM (kra8Q)

144 Thanks for your service Mr. Zod

Posted by: Danny at January 05, 2013 12:57 PM (kra8Q)

145 of course it's perfectly possible to have a women in the military/not in combat position, but not to be all slippery slope, you have to thoroughly explain why one and not the other to checkmate liberal comprehensive equality-ness. i'm against it myself, but if there's no meaningful pushback next it'll be "i'm totally OK with women in combat, but [this specific policy] is going too far"

Posted by: JDP at January 05, 2013 01:00 PM (8HhF2)

146 Thank you for the sentiment, Danny, but it'd be fraudulent to accept your appreciation. I wasn't serving in the military, just a DoD guy trying to help our troops in northern Iraq a few years ago. I worked with the Iraqi senior leadership in Mosul coordinating their ops with ours. Proximity to them seemed to indicate to me that they were opportunistic, corrupt, lazy (if you've heard the Arabic term "jazza," you'll know what I'm talking about), and petty. I asked a W0-2 who'd been in AFG three times how the Iraqis compared to the AFG troops. He shrugged. "Four times as bad." He was prone to understatement. I think the sooner we leave Afghanistan, the better. I never thought I'd say that, but I've been surprised by developments before.

Posted by: General Zod at January 05, 2013 01:06 PM (2+bRt)

147 And thank you, Danny, for your service!

Posted by: General Zod at January 05, 2013 01:07 PM (2+bRt)

148 I am an old guy and used to think that the caretakers of the next generation and true civilization deserved men's protection and adoration. Well the culture has shown me how wrong I am. Women are nothing special and no different then men in any way..although typically psychically weaker, and yet able to handle more pain. We have been shown that sex is no big deal as it is done as one used to shake hands in the past so I guess rape is not as devastating as I believed. For these reasons I not only support front line female soldiers, I believe it is a cardinal sin not to have them there. So much so we should dumb down the standards for women to get into the most elite of our military areas. Bin Laden should have been taken down by a bunch of women damn it.

Posted by: ALL_IS_LOST at January 05, 2013 01:23 PM (T/L2Z)

149 The Germans called the Luftwaffe Helferininne (female communications helpers) "Luftwaffe Mattresses"

Posted by: JHW at January 05, 2013 01:26 PM (B38OD)

150 >>For these reasons I not only support front line female soldiers, I believe it is a cardinal sin not to have them there.<< In spite of the shame my state has covered itself in during the last two presidential elections (VA; I shake my head), I think having women in front-line combat is wrong. I'd have a hard time watching women board a plane to fight in combat for our country. I don't have a very good explanation for that; I've found over time, though, that I don't always have a very good explanation for what I believe.

Posted by: General Zod at January 05, 2013 01:35 PM (2+bRt)

151 More dopey Obama bullshit.

Posted by: Dirty Old Man at January 05, 2013 01:37 PM (xAF87)

152 Luftwaffe mattresses? Thats brilliant. But there you have it: some Soviet Air Force chicks became aces, while their Luftwaffe counterparts were little more than "kills" for off duty German pilots

Zod, your support was/is very consequential; even if you weren't exactly military you went overseas to Iraq and help out. Very respectable. And to be honest, when I order joined the Corps just 2 years ago, I was more interventionist than most conservatives. Now I'm more...reserved on that topic

Posted by: Danny at January 05, 2013 01:42 PM (kra8Q)

153 If the enemy can strike behind your lines (say ambushing a supply convoy in Iraq) the support positions can become combat positions very quickly.

Posted by: Cackfinger at January 05, 2013 02:17 PM (CCHli)

154 Photos of Luftwaffe females, some of them being interrogated by US troops.
http://tinyurl.com/b2y35gd

Posted by: JHW at January 05, 2013 02:21 PM (B38OD)

155

139
the Soviets used women in their hour of need, and I reckon that 300+ kills by a women sniper

Not taking anything away from her, but the Soviets used to exaggerate the shit out of everything they did, so I'd take that number with a grain of salt. Posted by: Jay Guevara

Yeah - try to find anything online about that Russian serial killer that took out over 100 victims during the peak power of the Soviet police state - it'd be a handy article to show the gun grabbers - poof, down the memory hole.

Posted by: Obamao at January 05, 2013 02:45 PM (JtyGg)

156 A Female Marine Captain Speaks Out: Get Over It! We Are Not All Created Equal

http://tinyurl.com/Marine-Corps-Gazette

Posted by: Lazarus at January 05, 2013 04:01 PM (6FGVd)

157 Women serve in combat roles in the Canadian Armed Forces. They fly F18's in combat, as well as serve in the infantry. In 2006 Capt. Nicola Goddard became the first woman casualty of the Canadian Forces, during a battle with the Taliban in Afghanistan. Capt. Goddard was a Forward Observation Officer, directing artillery onto Taliban positions when she was hit with heavy machine gun fire. The men who served with her said she was a soldier and a warrior in every sense of the word. Read more about this Canadian hero: http://www.nicholagoddard.com

Posted by: Kenneth at January 05, 2013 04:04 PM (GYW4K)

158 Over a hundred comments and no one mentions our Dread Lord's Pleasure Battalions?

Posted by: toby928© polluting your thread with football at January 05, 2013 05:06 PM (QupBk)

159 The pressure to list women in combat roles is coming from female senior officers who want a ticket punched for promotion. They're not that interest in fighting. Just ticket punching. There are guys like that too. Lots of them were in Vietnam.

Posted by: Mike K at January 05, 2013 05:31 PM (yQ85F)

160 What I dont get is why its a choice.
My AFSC was whatever the USAF said it was.
I got what I wanted, but if they would've needed me as an SF troop, then thats what it would've been.
Why dont women have to register for the draft if they are critical to the functioning of the Armed Forces?
And once they are there, how come there are different standards for the females? The F-4 tire, M-240 machine gun, and whatever the hell the Navy does doesn't magically change based on who is changing, humping, or working on it. So how on earth do different physical standards make sense?
In my 22 years as a crew chief, mx officer, and pilot, I continuously saw females put on restricted duties for pregnancy, sickness, etc. An instructor pilot that trained me flew for about 1 year of the 5 years that I spent at McGuire AFB.
One of my masters courses was analyzing the Kara Hultgreen mishap.
The "official" safety report was so egregious that "someone" took the extraordinary step of releasing the findings on the net. She screwed up from A-Z and was killed because of her arrogance, and the fact that she was enabled for her entire Navy career. She should have never been in the jet.
In pilot training, I saw it in spades. We had two females in my class, one over g'd the jet IN THE PATTERN, at 60 degrees of bank.
She was not washed out.
Of course, we had a female wing commander.
Here's the deal.
Everyone registers with selective service, or no benefits, jail, etc. (like with guys)
One standard for each service.
No exemptions.
equality.

Posted by: MikeB at January 05, 2013 07:22 PM (R6G9k)

161 A few things about Naval aviation. I know a retired LCDR aviator who was an instructor for John McCain (the Senator one). He marked the guy down 3 times. Being that McCain's father and grandfather were both Admirals, McCain was passed on and went on to light the Forrestal on fire, get shot down and taken prisoner, and run for president. I applaud and appreciate all his service (except the Forrestal thing). But of course his political career has been useless to the cause of liberty and freedom. As far as women in combat goes, I have never been in combat with one, or rather alongside one. I was an airdale in a VF squadron in the 60's and we got along fine with no women on ships. I was a Seabee from 79-96, and the first female Bee I saw was not allowed to go to the field. She worked with the Gunners Mates in the armory instead. My ex-wife, who was a SKC, told me they brought back 1/3 of the sub-tender female crew pregnant from a damn mini-cruise. Women make good Yeomen, Hospital Corpsmen, Storekeepers and such. Do they take male sailor's billets away? They sure do. But nobody ever asked me.

Posted by: EROWMER at January 05, 2013 07:55 PM (kxlCQ)

162

I served with a MP company in Desert Shield/ Storm attached to an armor division, so we had a few females in our company. Most of them are liabilities and become dead weight for the guys to carry. Under fire, they come up short. Having to hear the after-action -report about Lt. Suzzy Softbottom throwing her weapon to the ground and running when shots were fired her squads way isn't pleasant knowing that little morsal never made it's way outside of battalion. Can't have women getting bad OER/ EERs. Or the female gunner curled up in the fetal position when the convoy is under fire. The sudden pregancies spring up before deployemnt-- meaning platoons go short down range. As field conditions tend to get spartan, women seem to have a harder time dealing with it and, again, the men have to pick up the slack.

Keep them in admin, medical or supply, but out of combat arms.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at January 06, 2013 01:52 AM (f+TdG)

163 Despite some/many of the prior commentary, women in combat roles should not be regarded as an inherently bad idea.

However - under most conditions, particularly for primarily-volunteer military forces, it should be regarded as an unnecessary idea.

The most concise and appropriate view, I think, is:

"I am happy to have women serve in any capacity whatsoever for which they are qualified, including physically qualified, and for which they can pass the necessary training and tests without a deliberate lowering of the bar.

Unfortunately, what we have seen in the last quarter-century has been a triumph of leftist political correctness over objective assessment."

The whole pregnancy/sex thing is purely a side-issue, and can be managed if necessary, even given the current state of the UCMJ.

If they can clearly cut it - and clearly want it - let 'em do it. Otherwise, apply the standards, and move on...full stop, as the Brits say.

Posted by: J.S.Bridges at January 06, 2013 11:35 AM (kxPuQ)

164 If you are in the second floor of a burning house and overcome by smoke, if you are trapped in a car that has run into some deep water, if you are confronted in the parking lot by three "dreamers" who want your money, is YOUR preference to be assisted by by a man or women? If women possess great war like attributes, why is it that in recorded history, we can't find a women that has been selected to lead forces into battle? Just a couple of the questions I struggle with.

Posted by: R. Aurum Tar at January 06, 2013 12:23 PM (S/akZ)

165 @R. Aurum Tar: Are you really that historically ignorant?
Women have been in war since time immemorial. Anyone who requires proof need only do a little research to find copious historical facts about female warriors, both individual and organized.

Just a few examples:

Deborah, one of the Judges of Israel. Source: The Bible (Book of Judges)

In 529 BC, Tomyris, Queen of the Massagetae in southwest Asia, led her armies in defeating the invasion of Cyrus the Great of Persia.

In 61 AD Queen Boudicca of the Iceni of Norfolk led a major rebellion against the Romans during which she sacked and burned modern day London and St. Albans.

Revolutionary War:

Margaret Cochran Corbin, born in Pennsylvania in 1751, was assisting her husband John with his cannon when he was killed on Nov. 16, 1776 during a British and Hessian attack on Fort Washington, New York. She took over the cannon and continued to fire at the enemy until she was seriously wounded and lost the use of her arm. In 1779 she was awarded a disabled soldier's pension by the Continental Congress and in 1780 became the only woman enrolled in the "Invalid Regiment" which was stationed at West Point. When the "Invalid Regiment" was disbanded in 1783 Corbin remained in the area drawing her supplies from the commissary and being cared for by the military. She is buried in the soldier's graveyard behind the Old Cadet Chapel at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point where a bronze plaque commemorates her as "the first American woman to take a soldier's part in the War for Liberty".

Mary Ludwig Hays McCauley served alongside her husband, John Hays, in the 1st Pennsylvania Artillery and later in the 7th Pennsylvania Regiment. On the battlefield she carried water, swabbed out cannon bores and loaded shot. When John was seriously wounded in June 1778 while fighting at Monmouth, New Jersey, Mary ignored her own wounds and operated his cannon until the battle ended. After the war she was awarded a veteranÂ’s pension of $40 per year by the State of Pennsylvania. She is believed by many historians to be the inspiration for the legendary "Molly Pitcher".

Deborah Samson (some sources use the spelling Sampson) served with the 4th Massachusetts Regiment disguised as Robert Shurheff (some sources use the spelling Shirtliffe or Shurtliff) from May 1782 until October 1783. She was wounded in a skirmish near Tarrytown, New York and according to some sources was later hit by a musket ball in another skirmish at East Chester. Once her gender was discovered she was given an honorable discharge on October 23, 1783. After the war Deborah married Benjamin Gannett and had three children (Earl, Pauline and Mary). On January 19, 1792, at the urging of Paul Revere who was convinced she should receive a veterans pension, the Massachusetts legislature granted Deborah 34 pounds sterling with interest from her date of discharge. She died on April 29, 1827 and is buried in Rock Ridge Cemetery in Sharon Massachusetts. In 1944 the liberty ship Deborah Sampson Gannett was christened in her honor. On May 23, 1983 she was named the Official Heroine of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and in 1985 was honored with a Commemorative Medal by the U.S. Capitol Society.

Civil War:

Kady (aka Kate) Brownell served as a markswoman with the 1st Rhode Island Infantry Volunteers during the Civil War. She fought openly as a woman in several battles alongside her husband Robert and guarded her unit's flag during the first battle of Bull Run. In August 1861 the 1st Rhode Island disbanded and the Brownells each received a regular army discharge. They reenlisted in the 5th Rhode Island Infantry the following October. Although Kady was ordered to remain at the rear during engagements some contemporary accounts place her on the battlefield at New Bern, North Carolina where Robert was wounded. The Brownell's were transferred to New York where Robert spent several months recuperating in the Soldier's Relief Hospital. They were both discharged in the winter of 1863. In 1884 Kady Brownell was granted a veteran's pension of $8 per month. A surviving photograph taken during her service with the 1st Rhode Island, shows her armed with a sword and wearing a knee length dress over pants.

WWI

In 1915 Madame Arno, an artist, organized a regiment of Parisian women to fight the Germans. Helene Dutreux was the first of a number of women the French government officially permitted to become military pilots during WW I. Emilienne Moreau fought in the front ranks in a number of actions including the Battle of Loos where she killed two snipers. She was awarded the Croix de Guerre, the Bristish Red Cross Medal and the St. John Ambulance Society Medal. In 1940 she once again fought for her country earning a second Croix de Guerre.

WWII

Elena Haas fought with the Czech Resistance. In 1944 she led a raid that destroyed a vital and heavily guarded bridge. Leading several other raids she destroyed Nazi supplies and ammunition as well as killing many of the enemy. She died in 1945 while leading a raid against an airfield.
About 1,000 women aviators were trained as fighter and military transport pilots, 30 of them were awarded the Gold Star of a Hero of the Soviet Union for their heroism in combat. Three aviation regiments, the 586th Women's Fighter Regiment, the 587th Women's Bomber Regiment and the 588th Women's Night Bomber Regiment utilized only women pilots, engineers and mechanics. Major Tamara Aleksandrovna commanded a Russian all-female air-borne regiment on more than 400 sorties and 125 combat engagements. She and the women she commanded shot down thirty-eight enemy aircraft during aerial combat. Polina Gelman was a bomber pilot who flew 18 combat missions and was decorated five times.

There's also plenty of examples from Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, and OIF.

First All-female Crew Flies Combat Mission
http://tinyurl.com/7swte

Lioness: The Story of American Female Warriors
http://tunyurl.com/deu5sg

Army Specialist Monica Brow
http://tinyurl.com/ckfxyq

Army Sergeant Leigh Ann Hester
http://tinyurl.com/dfv2rz

I come from a lineage of military family members who taught me that if you enjoy the fruits of America, you'd damned well better be willing to fight for it. I did. I earned the right to serve and fight in my nation's wars, an honor that I am proud of. That's what a Soldier is trained to do, regardless of gender. If you choose to dismiss the historical and present day accomplishments and sacrifices of thousands of military personnel because of their gender, that sounds like a personal problem.

I pulled two tours in Iraq. Females endured the same hardships, dangers and demands as our male counterparts. We lived and worked in austere conditions, lifted and carried heavy equipment and never hesitated to assist in the effort to help the enemy die for their country. SCUD launches, mortar attacks, bunker sweeps, minefields and bullets were shared by everyone, regardless of gender. As an S2 NCO, I jumped ahead of my unit in OIF via Black Hawk and Ground Assault convoy to set up forward intelligence operations. I dug hasty defensive positions and set up sectors of fire.

After all the selfless service and sacrifice of women in war throughout history, you'd think people would have paid attention, and maybe, a little gratitude.
Everyone has abilities and limitations, regardless of gender. The problem is that some people just canÂ’t accept women being in wartime life-threatening situations, which is laughable because women around the planet are subjected to danger every damned day of the week.
So, if you've never been there, or you're just too boneheaded to give women the fair shake we've earned, shut the fuck up. I'm sick of your bullshit.

Posted by: SFC MAC at January 11, 2013 03:48 PM (TLbgU)

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