December 13, 2013

GOP To Fiscal Conservatives: Drop Dead
— DrewM

So yesterday the House GOP overwhelmingly decided to renounce fiscal conservatism.

One excuse given by the party of Not Quite As Big, But Still Pretty Damn Big Government is that they had to bust the sequester or else there would be another disastrous shutdown.

HereÂ’s the problem with that excuseÂ…itÂ’s bull.

The idea is that Obama, Reid and the rest of the Democrats would love another shutdown so that they could get the focus away from ObamaCare and back on the dysfunction of the GOP. This would supposedly be the answer to all their problems.

Now if that’s true, why would the Democrats allow themselves to be bought off for a few billion dollars in spending? Do you really think Obama and Reid are thinking, “We’re facing annihilation in 2014 and the only way we might survive is a shutdown but gosh, we’re getting $30 billion more non-defense spending. I guess we’ll just give up our one chance to hold the Senate because that extra $30 Billion is just too sweet to pass up on!”

In what world does that make any sense?

If the Democrats wanted a shutdown they could have had it in a heartbeat, even with the extra spending the GOP just coughed up.

All they’d have had to do was insist that extending unemployment payments be part of the deal. If the GOP held firm on that, the Democrats, along with their allies in the media, would have said, “These Republicans are at it again. Now they are shutting down the government because they want 1.3 million Americans to lose their unemployment payments. At Christmas time! We didn’t think the GOP could get more extreme or cruel but now they are holding these vulnerable Americans hostage because fringe conservatives like Ted Cruz only care about their extremist donors.”


But no. WeÂ’re to believe Obama and Reid passed up on that (they cut the deal without the extension, much to the consternation of their liberal members) even though they really, really want and need a shutdown.

Why don’t Democrats want another shutdown? Likely because they recognize the country is angry with them at the moment and they aren’t sure the blame will be placed on the Republicans this time. Americans now realize that Obama lied to them about ObamaCare and the GOP told the truth. This time around voters might be inclined to think he’s lying to them again when he says, “I’m Mr. Reasonable but those crazy Republicans! You can’t even talk to them.”

So did Democrats simply bluff the GOP into thinking they really wanted a shutdown and at least got something out of it? No.

This is the truly sad part. The GOP didnÂ’t have to be bullied or bluffed into breaking the sequester, they wanted to do it.

Remember how in 2010 the GOP ran on cutting $100 billion from the budget and then the first thing they did was try to weasel out of it? It took a lot of pressure to get them to live up to that promise.

Think back to this August when the Transportation and Housing and Urban Development appropriations bill was supposed to come to the floor for a vote. Why didnÂ’t it make it? Well, the appropriations chairman, Hal Rogers, said it was because there weren't enough Republican votes to pass a domestic spending bill that had cuts in it. Sure the GOP passed 4 of the 13 appropriations bills for FY14 but all of those increased spending. Nothing with cuts made it to the floor. In addition to those domestic porkers there are Republicans who wanted to hike defense spending.

So the critical mass within the House GOP caucus is for more spending but they canÂ’t admit it. They have to pretend that they were avoiding another shutdown and then top that off with the insulting idea that sure theyÂ’ll spend more now but just you wait! In 12 years youÂ’re going to see some real cutting!

Were the only options for the House GOP, a deal or a shutdown? No.

Republicans didnÂ’t have to do anything. They could have taken the spending levels of the 3 month CR that ended the shutdown (which were at the GOPÂ’s sequester level estimates) and simply expanded those levels to the entire year.

Instead they elected to unwind the one program, however flawed, that actually cut spending.

The GOP will talk about the need to cut spendingÂ…when they need your volunteer efforts, your money and your vote. But when it comes time to actually act, they will call you ridiculous for noticing that they are actually in favor of ever increasing spending and always will be.

(Note: Gabe and I got into it on the podcast over the question of whatÂ’s more important, GOP words or deeds. I think you can guess which side each took but itÂ’s worth listening to both sides of the argument.)

Seeing the GOP cave on a core principle, not simply a matter of "tactics" as GOP apologists like to claim, do you really believe their anti-ObamaCare promises? They'll want you to ignore everything else they do (amnesty anyone?) and keep you focused on ObamaCare. But what in their actions, not words, makes you believe they won't eventually compromise on that too?

Yesterday the GOP abandoned any notion that they will ever give more than lip service to cutting spending. People will say, "well, the Democrats are worse and at least the GOP is with us some of the time". Yes, the Demcorats will always be worse but that thinking just encourages the GOP to be 1% less worse. Is that really helpful? Does that advance conservatism?

You can say, "someone who agrees with me 80% of the time is ally, not an enemy". Well, it depends on what the 20% of disagreements are about.

If youÂ’re a fiscal con, you can either accept that the GOP will only sweet talk you but never actually deliver for you. Or go back for another beating.

Posted by: DrewM at 06:28 AM | Comments (320)
Post contains 1013 words, total size 7 kb.

1 Primary the bastards.

Posted by: Multitude at December 13, 2013 06:30 AM (N7l30)

2 If the GOP has renounced fiscal conservatives, social conservatives, and gives the middle finger to any one advocating border security, whose left to vote for them?

Posted by: mr Pink at December 13, 2013 06:31 AM (uaNiM)

3

Oh, for Christ's sake Drew.  Are you seriously advocating for continual shutdowns every 3 months?  Don't Republicans have any responsibility for trying to actually govern competently?  What's your end game? 

 

Do you really think massive blunt cuts in defense spending are a good thing?  Because that's what was coming on January 1 and that's what the Republicans in the House were trying to prevent.  The entire point of the sequester was to bring enough pain to both Democrats and Republicans that they would eventually hammer out a deal for a more reasonable budget.  It was NEVER meant to be a long term strategy. 

Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 06:33 AM (Q4elb)

4 "Now if that’s true, why would the Democrats allow themselves to be bought off for a few billion dollars in spending? Do you really think Obama and Reid are thinking, “We’re facing annihilation in 2014 and the only way we might survive is a shutdown but gosh, we’re getting $30 billion more non-defense spending. I guess we’ll just give up our one chance to hold the Senate because that extra $30 Billion is just too sweet to pass up on!”" I was thinking about that myself when I heard there was a deal. I was wondering why they were so willing to deal because a shutdown seemed like the logical desire for them considering ObamaCare. "Why don’t Democrats want another shutdown? Likely because they recognize the country is angry with them at the moment and they aren’t sure the blame will be placed on the Republicans this time. Americans now realize that Obama lied to them about ObamaCare and the GOP told the truth. This time around voters might be inclined to think he’s lying to them again when he says, “I’m Mr. Reasonable but those crazy Republicans! You can’t even talk to them.”" Maybe. I don't know how rational these people are, though. Example #1": ObamaCare. Perhaps this is true. Perhaps they weren't willing to take the risk. But come January I think they are going to wish they still had this Hail Mary in their arsenal.

Posted by: NotCoach at December 13, 2013 06:33 AM (rsudF)

5 So, can we all stop worrying about anal sex and fucking rape and realize that hey, maybe we just might need to take this fucking party back. No more RINOs. Or 3rd party. I have voted for every fucking RINO to come up. No more. No more squishes. And if this party can't support great guys like Ken C. and fight the fucking bullshit slander on non-issues, when our freedoms and very country are at stake, well then fuck them and the horse they rode in on. Never again. Nominate a schmuck, lose power for a century you fucks.

Posted by: prescient11 at December 13, 2013 06:34 AM (u+Dc+)

6 So yesterday the House GOP overwhelmingly decided to renounce fiscal conservatism.


Yes they are doing everything they can do to piss off the base and lose the House next year.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at December 13, 2013 06:34 AM (T2V/1)

7 The Transformation of the United States is now complete.
Return to your homes.
All is well.
Peace is at hand.
There is nothing to see here.

Posted by: I remember when. at December 13, 2013 06:34 AM (BVmGa)

8 GOP IS DEAD DEAD DEAD

Posted by: FUBAR at December 13, 2013 06:34 AM (Cs2tJ)

9 Wow, they REALLY want to lose the 2014 election, don't they?

They have Obama and all of the Dems dead to rights with Obamacare and yet they still find a way to f$ck it up.

Posted by: Lizzy at December 13, 2013 06:34 AM (JRmiD)

10 Rockmom, I know, right? We must have all branches of government to fight!!! I mean, how did we ever fight Carter and Clinton. This is so tough.

Posted by: prescient11 at December 13, 2013 06:35 AM (u+Dc+)

11 So Drew, how was the movie?

Posted by: Obligatory Moronism at December 13, 2013 06:35 AM (RD7QR)

12 It can't be all Total War all the time.  The government is a hungry power sucking behemoth and we know that both parties want more money and power.  It doesn't bother me to keep this drama on simmer while Obamacare explodes.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at December 13, 2013 06:35 AM (A0sHn)

13 One excuse given by the party of Not Quite As Big, But Still Pretty Damn Big Government is that they had to bust the sequester or else there would be another disastrous shutdown.


Disastrous shut down?  Onl 18% of the gov was actually shutdown and the real polls showed no harm to the Republicans.  The only that did was the initial Democrat poll.


They are either lying or stupid or both.  I go with BOTH.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at December 13, 2013 06:36 AM (T2V/1)

14 This must be some of that Strategery that I heard about.

Posted by: Azenogoth at December 13, 2013 06:36 AM (f6ZLT)

15 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 06:36 AM (PYAXX)

16 7 The Transformation of the United States is now complete. Return to your homes. All is well. Peace is at hand. There is nothing to see here. --- So, when do those of us who are scientists or who dislike the Visitors get sent up to the ships?

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 13, 2013 06:37 AM (/Crba)

17 Drew, It's worse. Shortly after the New Year, we will see the introduction of a "compromise" immigration POS. The Republicans will fracture and magically, the Democrats will retain the Senate. I'd appreciate it if everyone would note the day and time of this post.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 13, 2013 06:37 AM (659DL)

18 Frumious, what bothers me is that they just gave away their only power, the power of the purse, longterm. That is shocking. Plus, they killed the sequester. I mean, WTF. This is like playing poker with a fucking retard. All b/c they are afraid of a shutdown. How stupid are they?

Posted by: prescient11 at December 13, 2013 06:37 AM (u+Dc+)

19 Interesting that people are actually saying that this deal will make the GOP invulnerable to criticism that they hate the poor and all that. Seriously. They think the Donks will not be able to criticize them now.

Posted by: blaster at December 13, 2013 06:37 AM (W6bkf)

20 It took a lot of pressure to get them to live up to that promise.


As I recall, in the end they didn't.  They only reduced the rate of increase.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at December 13, 2013 06:37 AM (T2V/1)

21 How stupid are they? --- I'm not sure there is a way to put it in words. This is on the order of Homer Simpson trying to make a bowl of cereal and magically finding a way for it to catch on fire.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 13, 2013 06:38 AM (/Crba)

22 If "shutdown" was the reason (and I have a scheduled post at that blog I don't have about this), then the only way that could be achieved was via debt ceiling- yes? So why not just offer to raise the debt ceiling by 2 Trillion? Then it's the Democrats who are "unreasonable" and "obstructionist" when they say, "No, simply raising the debt ceiling isn't enough! We must increase spending, too!"

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 06:38 AM (PYAXX)

23
The GOP hates the TSA so much they just voted to double the fees (taxes) to fund them.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 13, 2013 06:38 AM (MaP11)

24 I think I've seen this movie before so I didn't bother reading Drew's review.

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at December 13, 2013 06:39 AM (vjQ/G)

25 Circa, that's why Boehner did what he did. Levin nailed it last night. Try to marginalize conservative groups for their amnesty push. Unfortunately, he didn't count on Senate objecting and McConnell's a no. He can't even set up his fucking propaganda, the bumbling idiot.

Posted by: prescient11 at December 13, 2013 06:39 AM (u+Dc+)

26 Remember, the devil is going to be in the details of the appropriations that show up to be voted upon next month.

Posted by: steveegg at December 13, 2013 06:39 AM (o44nj)

27 Keep on bonking that chicken, Drew!  After all, it couldn't POSSIBLY be your fault!

Yes, Drew, the Democrats want another shutdown that they can blame on Republicans.  After all, it worked quite well for them this time (when your guys forced one).

Why is Obama agreeing?  Well, what makes you think he IS agreeing?

Why is Reid agreeing?  Let's see what the final vote is before we answer that question, shall we?

Why is this happening?

Because you dickless losers were desperate to have a "fight", even one you know you were going to lose.  So instead of having a clean budget that extended the sequester cuts, we had a shutdown, that we lost.

Now we're paying for it.  Congratulation!

Posted by: Greg Q at December 13, 2013 06:39 AM (4Pleu)

28 I heard Ted Cruz talking about the budget deal this morning.  And, it occurred  to me everyone got a little something out of this deal.

Cruz and Tea Party types know full well enough Dems will vote for this that Repubs can hide behind their "No" votes.

No shutdowns.. but the ability to denounce the deal come townhall meetings leading up to the elections!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 13, 2013 06:39 AM (f9c2L)

29 OT:
Well at least TFG gets shirts.

http://shirt.woot.com/

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at December 13, 2013 06:39 AM (DL2i+)

30 I would say, "This is me being done with the Republican party" but I've been there for quite a while. I'll support specific candidates, but no "straight party" voting and no rhetorical support, either. The NRC is dead to me.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 06:40 AM (PYAXX)

31 Oh, and one other thing, by agreeing to this budget I'm assuming the GOP just agreed to fund Obamacare for this period of time. Young Guns indeed. Man did we dodge a fucking bullet with this guy.

Posted by: prescient11 at December 13, 2013 06:40 AM (u+Dc+)

32 John Boehner is the Bernard Law Montgomery of politics. Experienced but dull. As imaginative as an ox, but only half as energetic. Paul Ryan has tipped his hand. He's an opportunist, and he is desperate to have his name on a win - ANY win - even a bad one. He believes that this will give him a foothold with independents ("see? I can reach across the aisle! I can govern!" ) while leaving time to kiss and make up with the true conservative base. Congressman Ryan, please read this carefully: You Are Wrong I will vote for nobody, if you are the candidate. I will walk into the booth and cast a blank ballot before I give you my vote. You are a snake, Sir, and I don't vote for snakes.

Posted by: RobM1981 at December 13, 2013 06:41 AM (zurJC)

33 Do you really think massive blunt cuts in defense spending are a good thing? Because that's what was coming on January 1 and that's what the Republicans in the House were trying to prevent. The entire point of the sequester was to bring enough pain to both Democrats and Republicans that they would eventually hammer out a deal for a more reasonable budget. It was NEVER meant to be a long term strategy.

Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 10:33 AM (Q4elb)


*********************************************


^^This. I understand the argument that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, but there are some indisputable facts here:


1. The world is still a dangerous place, and the sequester did, in fact, harm military operations.


2. The GOP controls one house of one branch of government, and the Democrats control the other house of that branch and the executive.


3. Obamacare is a gift that keeps on giving, and looking toward November, there is a real shot at gaining control of the Senate. That matters for a lot of reasons beyond just the budget -- appointments, investigations, treaties, etc.


Play the long game. The leftists have always been good at incrementalizing their goals and accepting half a loaf if they can't get a whole loaf. We always seem to want everything, now. I supported the filibuster/partial government shutdown against Obamacare, because it was right and because it crystallized the GOP's opposition to what has become a disaster. But doing it again for what is rounding error in a $3 trillion budget would be asinine.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 13, 2013 06:41 AM (HubSo)

34

Circa, that's why Boehner did what he did. Levin nailed it last night.

 

Try to marginalize conservative groups for their amnesty push.

 

Unfortunately, he didn't count on Senate objecting and McConnell's a no.

 

He can't even set up his fucking propaganda, the bumbling idiot.

 

Posted by: prescient11 at December 13, 2013 10:39 AM (u+Dc+)

 

McConnell and the Senate are not objecting because they're FiCons, or even out of a sense of self-preservation in primaries. It's another step in Kabuki Theatre, the mirror image of what happened in the 17% Showdown, designed to further "discredit" conservatives.

Posted by: steveegg at December 13, 2013 06:41 AM (o44nj)

35 Does anyone have a good recipe for eating your young?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 13, 2013 06:41 AM (t3UFN)

36 Yes Greg, GOP was so hurt by this shutdown. Just like the one in '95. Oh wait. What? Facts are "hard".

Posted by: prescient11 at December 13, 2013 06:41 AM (u+Dc+)

37 Please tell me you peeled Gabe's face off on the podcast on this issue, Drew.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 13, 2013 06:43 AM (CJjw5)

38 This will mean nothing to those who blindly worship the "Republican Brand" and are hell-bent on supporting even the worst R candidates because Party Loyalty.

Whatever conservative principles Republicans were fatally wounded in 1964, and drew their last breaths when GHW Bush was inaugurated. Ever since, the "new breed" have played the Democrat Lite game.

In less than two years, Poppin' Fresh will be bangin' the drums for T-Paw again, and the charade will continue.

But it is not the actions of the Rs that have done the most damage. It is their enabling of the Prophets of Choom -- by meekly rolling over for every destructive act of the President Historic First© regime -- that have brought down the curtain on both the Republican Party and the United States.

As Barry Soetoro has so famously said: "if you like your Bitch McConnell, John Boner and Paul Ryan, you can keep them."

Posted by: MrScribbler at December 13, 2013 06:43 AM (veRXo)

39 If you show that you are not willing to go to the mat on the budget when the only house you control is the one responsible for the budget, then you have totally given up all the weapons you have.  You have no ability to negotiate at all.  You do the normal Republican roll over stick your ass in the air and say "thank you sir may I have another".


If it takes a shutdown every three months then do it.  And tell them everything but the military on watch shutdown, including the damn WH aids, secretaries, and other useless shits. 

Posted by: Vic[/i] at December 13, 2013 06:44 AM (T2V/1)

40 Do you really think massive blunt cuts in defense spending are a good thing? Deficits as far as can be projected with no plan to stop them are worse.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 13, 2013 06:44 AM (659DL)

41 Rockmom just loves her some Paul Ryan.  I believe she's in the worthless bastard's district.

I'm not, but at this point I'm going to do everything I can to get the fucker out of office.  If that means campaigning for a dem, I'll do it.  Fuck Ryan.

Posted by: Gman at December 13, 2013 06:44 AM (UkbKS)

42 Sweet fucking Christ. When you control all branches of government you could have fucking monkeys running things. WHEN YOU NEED TO FIGHT IS WHEN YOU'RE IN THE MINORITY. If I hear one more fucking idiot say this is the best we can do, we're powerless in the minority, I'm going to fucking lose it. Do you ever, EVER hear dems say that kind of shit? It's like playing 5 card stud with your cards face up on the fucking table.

Posted by: prescient11 at December 13, 2013 06:45 AM (u+Dc+)

43 The reason the dems were bought off so cheaply is that it wasn't cheap, ie, they can run against incumbent repubs for raising taxes and they got an unmentioned obligation to pass amnesty.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 13, 2013 06:45 AM (MaP11)

44 And, no matter what: racist.

Posted by: Sphynx at December 13, 2013 06:45 AM (OZmbA)

45 Up next for Ryan and Boehner: Amnesty.  Bank on it.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at December 13, 2013 06:45 AM (gA69l)

46 This is the truly sad part. The GOP didnÂ’t have to be bullied or bluffed into breaking the sequester, they wanted to do it. Of course they didn't have to be bullied or bluffed. If it weren't for Conservatives screaming in the first place, they never would have agreed to the sequester back then. The VAG would MUCH rather spend spend spend than actually be good stewards of the country's finances. You know, that's one thing the Neo-Feudalists have going for them. At least a Chancellor of the Exchequer can be hanged or beheaded when he runs the kingdom into financial ruin.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 06:45 AM (PYAXX)

47 $30 billion is chump change. The Democrats are sinking like the Titanic, and the GOP may be pretty smart right now to just settle in and watch the disaster unfold. No need to make waves. $30 billion is a small price to pay for continuing the catastrophe that is the Democratic Party. Yes, the Democrats could have forced the sequester, but would have had to do so by spending lots more money, and the same Dems that are vulnerable because of the O-care fiasco are also in states where spending is a touchy subject.

Plus, I think there's just a general exhaustion right now with all the drama, and a sense that Congress in general, not just one party or the other, is being blamed for all the nonsense, and everyone in Congress just doesn't want to go through it again. Nor does the public have any appetite for it.

Posted by: Cornfed at December 13, 2013 06:45 AM (Hoy9u)

48 The GOP is a fake opposition party, like the Brotherhood in 1984.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 13, 2013 06:46 AM (WEuad)

49 Do you really think massive blunt cuts in defense ALL spending

or DOOM

Posted by: Math[/i][/b][/s] at December 13, 2013 06:46 AM (DL2i+)

50

I have to admit that the details of this deal are so convoluted and filled with loopholes and lawyerspeak  that I don't think even  the people who are voting on it can  figure out  whether  it will be  good or bad.   I'm leaning bad since it does not appear to  slow down  the spending train. 

Posted by: polynikes at December 13, 2013 06:47 AM (m2CN7)

51 Posted by: Vic at December 13, 2013 10:44 AM (T2V/1) Exactly. About 2000 years ago, some dude who's still famous once said something along the lines of, "If you can't be responsible with little, you won't be given the opportunity to be irresponsible with much." Words of wisdom, those.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 06:47 AM (PYAXX)

52 Sweet fucking Christ. When you control all branches of government you could have fucking monkeys running things. WHEN YOU NEED TO FIGHT IS WHEN YOU'RE IN THE MINORITY. If I hear one more fucking idiot say this is the best we can do, we're powerless in the minority, I'm going to fucking lose it. Do you ever, EVER hear dems say that kind of shit? It's like playing 5 card stud with your cards face up on the fucking table. Posted by: prescient11 at December 13, 2013 10:45 AM (u+Dc+) ----------------------------- Everything that guy just said is true.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 13, 2013 06:47 AM (CJjw5)

53

"If youÂ’re a fiscal con, you can either accept that the GOP will only sweet talk you but never actually deliver for you. Or go back for another beating."

No, I've pretty much had it with the American political system, so any elections that come up between now and the time I leave this country will be ignored.

I'm taking the skills that my relatively high-paying job required, and the tax-receipts the hopelessly corrupted American Givernment used to be dependent on, elsewhere........

Posted by: MtTB at December 13, 2013 06:48 AM (8E9QA)

54 This party couldn't even overturn the 60 w. lightbulb ban.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at December 13, 2013 06:48 AM (l3vZN)

55 The only reason sequester really hurt the military is that they were not allowed what to cut to meet them.  If the military were allowed to cut bases that they want to cut w/o congressional interference and cut shitty weapon system develop that they want to cut they could have met sequester with room to spare.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at December 13, 2013 06:48 AM (T2V/1)

56

So vote Democrat or stay home?  No.  Primary out what you can and elect as many Republicans after the primary smoke clears, surviving RINOs included.  Rinse, Repeat in 2016, and 2018, etc.

Posted by: dirks strewn at December 13, 2013 06:48 AM (kfcYC)

57 Ah, so the rumors of Squishy Drew killing Conservative Drew were not true. Excellent.

Posted by: Countrysquire at December 13, 2013 06:48 AM (LSJmV)

58 With enemies like this, who needs friends?

Posted by: Barakhenaten I at December 13, 2013 06:48 AM (3Nt8z)

59 Bevel: Indeed. So the GOP forced a shutdown to try and save Americans from a WILDLY UNPOPULAR LAW. And now that this WILDLY UNPOPULAR LAW has taken effect, millions are hurting, and the President's poll numbers are submarining. Somehow, someway, in the brilliant GOP strategist mind, standing up again to shutdown the government to stop this WILDLY UNPOPULAR LAW is a bad strategy. Watching the admin put barrycades up at memorials is bad optics??? Having Sen Reid say he doesn't care abt kids with cancer is bad optics??? Am I in fucking bizarro world??? SHUTDOWN THIS FUCKER ALL DAY.

Posted by: prescient11 at December 13, 2013 06:48 AM (u+Dc+)

60 what bothers me is that they just gave away their only power, the power of the purse, longterm.

How often has the horde pointed out that its.
1. get the toughest deal you can.
2. Tell them 'But 1st you will blow me"

not

Please let me blow you.

Posted by: Math[/i][/b][/s] at December 13, 2013 06:48 AM (DL2i+)

61 39 Do you really think massive blunt cuts in defense
spending are a good thing?

Deficits as far as can be projected with no plan to stop them are worse.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 13, 2013 10:44 AM (659DL)

 

You really want to run a campaign in 2014 and 2016 on that?  Barack Obama jacked up the national debt by 40% in 4 years and got reelected.  "Eat Your Peas" is not a winning strategy. 

 

 

Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 06:49 AM (Q4elb)

62

$30 billion is chump change.

 

This is the sort of thinking that got us in this situation.  Oh, it's just $30B here, $30B here, no big deal.  We'll just raise taxes. 

 

Srsly, when are we going to stop this crap.  This is our hard earned money they are wasting.

Posted by: Infidel at December 13, 2013 06:49 AM (O/fK8)

63 "34Does anyone have a good recipe for eating your young?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 13, 2013 10:41 AM"

 

 

I think Jonathan Swift had a few ideas in that direction, though he was talking about Irish babies.

Posted by: MtTB at December 13, 2013 06:49 AM (8E9QA)

64 The Defense Budget is being gutted. And it takes a lot longer to repair the damage than to gut it

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 13, 2013 06:49 AM (t3UFN)

65 "If youÂ’re a fiscal con, you can either accept that the GOP will only sweet talk you but never actually deliver for you. Or go back for another beating." You know, this reads as true if you substitute "Social" for "fiscal." Or, indeed, simply remove the modifier at all.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 06:49 AM (PYAXX)

66 Also, Boehner and those guys shouldn't be going to the microphones and saying that the Tea Party guys are a bunch of poopyheads. He should be selling the deal, saying, no, it isn't everything you want, but we did get this that is important to you. Instead, insults.

Posted by: blaster at December 13, 2013 06:49 AM (W6bkf)

67 Since I changed my party affiliation from "Republican" to "Unaffiliated," at not time have I regretted or considered undoing that change.  There is no party that represents my interests and beliefs. 

Posted by: shillelagh at December 13, 2013 06:49 AM (hRzu2)

68

26: "Because you dickless losers were desperate to have a "fight", even one you know you were going to lose. So instead of having a clean budget that extended the sequester cuts, we had a shutdown, that we lost."

 

You are soooooo right! I mean we had clean budgets every year except for that time the "dickless losers" forced a shutdown. Each and every time!

 

And sacking up and fighting even when you know you are going to lose is such a screwup. Only a "dickless loser" would actually uphold those antiquated things like priciples and representing the people who elected you.

 

On the other hand, perhaps you don't have as good a grasp on the situation as you believe. Or on who is actually dickless for that matter...

Posted by: Azenogoth at December 13, 2013 06:49 AM (f6ZLT)

69 I'm betting that unemployment benefits ARE part of the deal. It just that everyone agreed to deny it in order to buy the GOP some immediate cover. The unemployment benefits will come back up soon and be passed by a different majority.

Posted by: yuh-huh at December 13, 2013 06:50 AM (fqXPm)

70 I told my representative I'm voting for whoever is running against him be it democrat or republican. He is a democrat in all but name right now anyways. Voted for cap and trade, wants amnesty, loves tax increases and big government.

Posted by: NWConservative at December 13, 2013 06:50 AM (dAUld)

71 You really want to run a campaign in 2014 and 2016 on that? Barack Obama jacked up the national debt by 40% in 4 years and got reelected. "Eat Your Peas" is not a winning strategy. Nah--let's continue to treat the American people like children and maybe pass immigration amnesty like your boy Ryan and his corporate masters want. It works well when Republicans try to run as Democrats.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 13, 2013 06:50 AM (659DL)

72 Full government control of all activities of the individual is virtually the goal of both national parties.

-Ludwig von Mises

Posted by: Comrade J at December 13, 2013 06:51 AM (6kkPP)

73 Link for the House vote for this shit: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll640.xml

Posted by: Countrysquire at December 13, 2013 06:51 AM (LSJmV)

74 40 Rockmom just loves her some Paul Ryan. I believe she's in the worthless bastard's district.

I'm not, but at this point I'm going to do everything I can to get the fucker out of office. If that means campaigning for a dem, I'll do it. Fuck Ryan.

Posted by: Gman at December 13, 2013 10:44 AM (UkbKS)

 

I'm actually in a different worthless bastard's district, in PA.  ;-)

 

Ryan's conservative budget passed the House three times.  And the Senate either refused to vote on it or, this year, voted out a completely different budget that increased spending a lot more.  Ryan did what used to be ordinary procedure in the House, led a conference committee to split the difference.  Only in 2013 does that make him a RINO traitorous bastard. 

Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 06:51 AM (Q4elb)

75 The Republican Party as it is today is about as much about The Republic as the marxocrats are about Democracy. Kabuki Theatre would be an upgrade. This is like Off Broadway Vaudville. The Repukes are actually more phony and worse actors than the marxocrats.

Posted by: ontherocks at December 13, 2013 06:51 AM (42o0q)

76 Primary out what you can and elect as many Republicans after the primary smoke clears, surviving RINOs included. Yes to the first. No to the second & third. Primary out as many as you can. Vote for Conservatives. If they won't represent us when they're in the minority, why should we expect them to represent us when they're in the majority? Put another way- do you really think Mitch McConnell will suddenly become a Fiscal Hawk the day he becomes Senate Majority Leader?

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 06:51 AM (PYAXX)

77 Bush's lies caused all this mess. We hate Bush and support our black president who pure and innocent like Jesus.

Posted by: Chrissy Liebowitz at December 13, 2013 06:51 AM (iB0Q2)

78 [Softly] We had to get this done so I could go home and renew my subscription to Playful European PreAdolescents


Posted by: Harry Reid at December 13, 2013 06:51 AM (OZmbA)

79 Empire of Jeff, I feel like I am losing my mind. NRO writers, the so called intelligentsia, all are failing us. Fuck the media and fuck the polls. STAND FOR PRINCIPLE. If you are right, the rest falls into place. Elections happen every 2 fucking yrs.

Posted by: prescient11 at December 13, 2013 06:52 AM (u+Dc+)

80 My guess is that the GOP learned from 2008 and 2012 that LIVs win elections so they are going after the LIV vote or are at least doing everything possible to avoid offending the LIVs.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 13, 2013 06:52 AM (ee9LE)

81 Nah--let's continue to treat the American people like children and maybe pass immigration amnesty like your boy Ryan and his corporate masters want. It works well when Republicans try to run as Democrats. Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 13, 2013 10:50 AM (659DL) ------------------------------ THAT'S how you surrender, boys! Transport Circa to the front on our speediest shitwagon!

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 13, 2013 06:52 AM (CJjw5)

82 Posted by: Jinx the Cat at December 13, 2013 10:48 AM (l3vZN) Here's a fun fact for you...the GOP is RESPONSIBLE for the incandescent bulb ban. It was Fred Upton's idea.

Posted by: DrewM. at December 13, 2013 06:53 AM (fgb4J)

83 People, we need to cut annual spending by almost a TRILLION dollars... 

Shutting down over this amount of money probably is not smart... BUT we certainly don't have any evidence that the GOP will do what needs to be done if they get the reigns of power.

Posted by: phreshone at December 13, 2013 06:53 AM (Pr6hk)

84 avoid offending the LIVs /facepalm

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 13, 2013 06:53 AM (659DL)

85 Times like these - it's instructive to ask: What would Mike Tyson do?

Posted by: Fyscyl Clyff at December 13, 2013 06:53 AM (Z1/Hr)

86 Only in 2013 does that make him a RINO traitorous bastard. You misspelled "Only when the correct conservative option was 'do nothing'..."

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 06:53 AM (PYAXX)

87 Welcome to November 7, 2012 in Cavil's head. What kept you?

Posted by: Brother Cavil at December 13, 2013 06:53 AM (naUcP)

88 10 So Drew, how was the movie? - The RINOs did it.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 13, 2013 06:53 AM (ee9LE)

89 Beats the snot out of me what to do.
Dig hole, jump in hole, pull the hole in after me?

Posted by: backhoe at December 13, 2013 06:53 AM (ULH4o)

90 68 I'm betting that unemployment benefits ARE part of the deal. It just that everyone agreed to deny it in order to buy the GOP some immediate cover. The unemployment benefits will come back up soon and be passed by a different majority.

Posted by: yuh-huh at December 13, 2013 10:50 AM (fqXPm)

 

Some Dems are making noises about a separate bill to extend benefits, but that would have to originate in the House and it ain't happening. 

 

So now Harry Reid has to make all of his vulnerable Senators vote for a budget that kills unemployment benefits.  This includes Al Franken, who will certainly hear about this from his base on the Left. 

Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 06:54 AM (NYnoe)

91 I think Gabe has a fine recipe for doom. If you look at where we are as a nation maybe it is time for Total War All the Time.

Posted by: yujin at December 13, 2013 06:54 AM (chx4w)

92 Ryan's conservative budget passed the House three times. And the Senate either refused to vote on it or, this year, voted out a completely different budget that increased spending a lot more. Ryan did what used to be ordinary procedure in the House, led a conference committee to split the difference. Only in 2013 does that make him a RINO traitorous bastard. Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 10:51 AM (Q4elb) Please spare us. Go back to hot gas. Ryan has always been a traitorous bastard, he was just whitewashed when he became the VP nominee for Romney. And this "deal" was worse than the status quo.

Posted by: NWConservative at December 13, 2013 06:55 AM (dAUld)

93  Also, Boehner and those guys shouldn't be going to the microphones and saying that the Tea Party guys are a bunch of poopyheads.

He should be selling the deal, saying, no, it isn't everything you want, but we did get this that is important to you.

Instead, insults.

Posted by: blaster at December 13, 2013 10:49 AM (W6bkf)

 

Exactly.  Any support I had given Boehner is gone.  He and Peter King can join Reggie and Obama in a four way.

Posted by: polynikes at December 13, 2013 06:55 AM (m2CN7)

94 There's nothing new here. The GOP has been telling fiscal conservatives to "drop dead" at least since GW Bush took office.

Posted by: Ken at December 13, 2013 06:55 AM (AIqhU)

95 THAT'S how you surrender, boys! Transport Circa to the front on our speediest shitwagon! I will cut no more forever.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 13, 2013 06:55 AM (659DL)

96 We're boned.

Posted by: that guy that always thinks we're boned at December 13, 2013 06:55 AM (evdj2)

97 Comrade, great quote.

Posted by: prescient11 at December 13, 2013 06:56 AM (u+Dc+)

98

This party couldn't even overturn the 60 w. lightbulb ban.

 

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at December 13, 2013 10:48 AM (l3vZN)

 

Because they fucking authored that ban.

Posted by: steveegg at December 13, 2013 06:56 AM (o44nj)

99

Boehner and those guys shouldn't be going to the microphones and saying that the Tea Party guys are a bunch of poopyheads

 

Well, yeah.  Even just from a negotiating point of view he should preserve the viability of releasing the Kraken. 

 

We'll probably never get to the much-needed socon v. libertarian civil war because the Establishment civil war will suck all the oxygen out of the room. As they say about academia, the fights are so bitter because the stakes are so small.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at December 13, 2013 06:56 AM (A0sHn)

100 Did you hear Boner yesterday claiming that their (GOP) principles have not been violated.

GOP principles are not our principles.

Posted by: Jimbo at December 13, 2013 06:56 AM (V70Uh)

101

We're boned.

 

Posted by: that guy that always thinks we're boned at December 13, 2013 10:55 AM (evdj2)

 

That's Bo(eh)ned, and it's terminal.

Posted by: steveegg at December 13, 2013 06:56 AM (o44nj)

102 Another scheduled post at that blog I don't have (you could check it out today if it existed) addresses Ben Domenech's Twitter Rant the other day. Specifically, it points out that Occam's Razor says that the VAG Leadership really does hate us and think we're stupid. I have to assume a lot fewer things not in evidence for that to be true than for it to be true that they don't like the deal either and just think it's the best political move.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 06:57 AM (PYAXX)

103 @ prescient11 Somebody needs to give Ryan the Ricky Roma speech to remind him of who he fucking works for. "WHAT YOU'RE HIRED FOR, is to help us... does that seem clear to you? TO HELP US, not to... FUCK-US-UP... to help those who are going out there to try to earn a living... You fairy. You company man. "

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 13, 2013 06:57 AM (CJjw5)

104 Yes, we had wimpy RINOs, House big spending appropriators and the neo-con pro-defense-spending wings all wanting to chip away at the sequester.

So they did.

But this was not a surprise. No conservative should be surprised or offended by that, it was telegraphed for a while.



The offense and the crime here is what Ryan 'won' out of this 'deal'... NOTHING. oh, some imaginary 'savings' in the next decade, which will be 7 or 8 appropriations and budget deals later, or 7-8 opportunities to undo whatever is promised. I've come to realize that ANY deal that says anything more than 2-3 years out is simply Fairy Tale. ALL THAT MATTERS IS WHAT WE SPEND NOW. And we spend MORE.

Ryan's Oct op-ed talked about fixing the sequester in exchange for entitlement reform. We didnt get that. Nor did we get pay-go, or real reform on spending, if anything a step backwards in giving the Senate a 50-vote 'deal' on taxes.

In exchange for giving up on sequester for the next 2 years, we got - bupkis.

Posted by: Zombie Commie Walter Cronkite at December 13, 2013 06:57 AM (oNqbW)

105 Your move, senator Cruz.

Posted by: Mr. Powerstroke Super Duty 4X4 King Ranch Edition at December 13, 2013 06:57 AM (LSJmV)

106 I'll tell you what Mike Tyson ~wouldn't~ do. He wouldn't give away part of the sequester. No. If he smelled the kind of blood in the water we have with Obamacare, he'd move in to crush his opponent's nasal bone into his brain-skull.

Posted by: Fyscyl Clyff at December 13, 2013 06:57 AM (Z1/Hr)

107 Some Dems are making noises about a separate bill to extend benefits, but that would have to originate in the House and it ain't happening. Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 10:54 AM (NYnoe) That's factually wrong. An UE extension bill does not have to start in the House.

Posted by: DrewM. at December 13, 2013 06:57 AM (fgb4J)

108
ot

but Orvis has a nice framed Declaration of Independence on sale.

http://www.orvis.com/store/product.aspx?pf_id=9E21

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: Done Christmas Shopping! at December 13, 2013 06:57 AM (IXrOn)

109 "Americans now realize that Obama lied to them about ObamaCare and the GOP told the truth. This time around voters might be inclined to think he’s lying to them again when he says, “I’m Mr. Reasonable but those crazy Republicans! You can’t even talk to them.”

That's a very well reasoned point of view, but unfortunately what the public will believe is not about reason- not anymore.  The public (or at least enough of a majority of the public) will believe what the MSM and Hollywood tell them to believe and those two institutions are owned lock, stock and barrel by the Democrats.  Thanks to the dumbing down of the electorate politics has been reduced to the level of the middle-school playground, and enough of the majority of voters simply want to go with the "cool kids"- who have been defined by the MSM and the entertainment industry to be the Democrats.

"The GOP didnÂ’t have to be bullied or bluffed into breaking the sequester, they wanted to do it."

I agree with that completely....

Posted by: Nighthawk at December 13, 2013 06:57 AM (OtQXp)

110 Ryan did what used to be ordinary procedure in the House, led a conference committee to split the difference. Only in 2013 does that make him a RINO traitorous bastard.

Which was not, can not and will not work into the future.
They lied about piecing it out and fixing it.
They've sucked so bad that everybody else is now the Republican In Name Only for however long it takes to de-register and quit voting.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at December 13, 2013 06:57 AM (DL2i+)

111 Steveegg, Yes, you know something was fucked up when GWB is supporting a fucking light bulb ban. Rockefeller Rs are simply soft statists. Burn them all down.

Posted by: prescient11 at December 13, 2013 06:58 AM (u+Dc+)

112 Who... does... number... two... work... for?

Posted by: Austin Powers at December 13, 2013 06:58 AM (gA69l)

113 Times like these - it's instructive to ask:
What would Mike Tyson Brian Boitano do?

Posted by: Fyscyl Clyff at December 13, 2013 10:53 AM (Z1/Hr)

Posted by: Insomniac at December 13, 2013 06:58 AM (DrWcr)

114 If control of the executive branch and the Senate means the GOP should never fight because they can't win, explain how the GOP can get LIVs when the Dems control the bag of goodies too. It's bizarre to me that the GOP is not pressuring vulnerable Dems in light of the shellacking they are taking in the polls. Instead we have guys like Matheson, who had been voting with Repubs, feeling ok voting for this because Rs like Chaffetz voted for Ryan's crap sandwich. SMH

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at December 13, 2013 06:58 AM (zDsvJ)

115 The GOP will talk about the need to cut spendingÂ…when they need your volunteer efforts, your money and your vote. But when it comes time to actually act, they will call you ridiculous for noticing that they are actually in favor of ever increasing spending and always will be. I don't care what you say. I care what you do. Tell me you love me and you need me and you can't live without me and then throw things at me and I know which I believe.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 06:59 AM (VtjlW)

116 What the GOP     did was to publicly announce that they can increase spending and go as far left as    they want, because,          "Who are you going to vote for - a Stalincare democrat?"

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at December 13, 2013 06:59 AM (eGmvn)

117 Article 5 convention looking better and better huh? DC is NOT going to do a damn thing about anything, let the states fix this fuckup.

Posted by: NWConservative at December 13, 2013 06:59 AM (dAUld)

118 85 Only in 2013 does that make him a RINO traitorous bastard.

You misspelled "Only when the correct conservative option was 'do nothing'..."

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 10:53 AM (PYAXX)

 

Do nothing?   Are you arguing for another shutdown?  Why is this the conservative option? 

 

Part of the deal made to end the last shutdown and stop the GOP bleeding was to go to conference on the budgets that actually passed the House and Senate this year.  This is not a bill that was just written out of thin air by 6 people in the last 2 weeks.  It's a compromise based on budgets that already passed, one of which was Paul Ryan's original conservative budget.  That budget was DOA in the Senate.  What's your idea of what conservatives can do next when they do not control the Senate or the White House? 

Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 06:59 AM (Q4elb)

119 GOP could have just sat on their hands for a lower budget. It wouldn't be hard to make a case for unwinding sequester cuts for more targeted cuts, but why this wasn't $1 for $1 is baffling.
So the GOP is worried about political fallout from another shutdown? Two months after the shutdown, the GOP went from trailing by 7 points to leading by 5 on the generic ballot. Short-term politicking shouldn't trump long-term fiscal principles.

Posted by: JonathanEllis at December 13, 2013 06:59 AM (BdzEV)

120

This is my biggest beef with the budget the House passed, too. Reid's Senate isn't obligated to pass it.  They can demand more spending, higher taxes on "the rich", anything else they want, accuse the GOP of not negotiating, and threaten a shutdown because of it.   All the House budget did is move the starting point for the negotiations.  That starting point abandoned any semblance of fiscal conservatism.

Fiscal conservatism was surrendered without a shot being fired. It was surrendered because the GOP establishment opposes it.

Posted by: BVBigBro at December 13, 2013 06:59 AM (/uoJ4)

121 If youÂ’re a fiscal con, you can either accept that the GOP will only sweet talk you but never actually deliver for you. Or go back for another beating. But he loves me! I KNOW he does! You just don't understand!!!!

Posted by: Battered Republican[/i][/i][/u][/s] at December 13, 2013 06:59 AM (sbV1u)

122 some imaginary 'savings' in the next decade, - By an incredible coincidence, that is also my diet plan.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 13, 2013 06:59 AM (ee9LE)

123 I was one of those people who though the shutdown was a bad idea in the fall, and I continue to think that it would be a bad idea going forward. And I'm receptive to the idea that the more media focus that's kept on 404care, the better.

But I want to see the GOP put up more of a fight than this. The Democrats are on the ropes right now. Leaning back for a haymaker could allow them to slip away, but we've got a chance to keep delivering blows. At the very least, the GOP should make noise in the press about how the sequester is working well and should be maintained. I think the public would be receptive to that, given the low esteem in which Obama's being held right now. At least test it out. Fight a little, see how the public reacts, and then either stand firm or compromise. But this compromise without a public fight is for the birds.

Posted by: Masturbatin' Pete at December 13, 2013 07:00 AM (xN1DB)

124 Empire: My antennae went up when I heard that guy talking immigration w/ Luis G. That guy is a flat out fucking commie. Our power over Ryan is that he still thinks he has a shot in 2016. hahahahahaha. But I want to know just why in the hell we are so afraid of a shutdown??? Why is our side so afraid??? Oh the media won't like you? We were blamed by 30 POINTS for the 95 shutdown and picked up 2 House seats.

Posted by: prescient11 at December 13, 2013 07:00 AM (u+Dc+)

125 I don't care what you say. I care what you do. Tell me you love me and you need me and you can't live without me and then throw things at me and I know which I believe. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 10:59 AM (VtjlW) So....you're saying you wants I should smack you around a little? If you're sure....well....OK then.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/i][/u][/s] at December 13, 2013 07:01 AM (sbV1u)

126

I don't know how much sicker I can feel about everything at this point. We have no representation. In the face of the most determined and insidious assault on America in our history, we have a non-opposing opposition party. The GOP is now in a state of such pathological pre-traumatic affliction that even the rumor of a democrat/media narrative reduces them to incontinence. Worse, it motivates them to attack themselves, and us. Obama and the Left have become like a vicious auto-immune disease within our national body. There is no stopping them. The system can't cope. Elections every few years just can't keep up with the assault. Media disinformation is simply too awesomely corrosive, eating away at our morale and intelligence.

We need a Lech Walesa. Nothing less will do.

Posted by: rrpjr at December 13, 2013 07:01 AM (s/yC1)

127 I knew Ryan was a self-serving prick when he kept bragging about all his fitness bullshit. He showed what a lousy VP candidate he would be when he refused a piece of his own birthday cake on a Sunday talk show to demonstrate what a chiseled fitness nazi he was. Total War All The Time

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at December 13, 2013 07:01 AM (Ec6wH)

128

Some Dems are making noises about a separate bill to extend benefits, but that would have to originate in the House and it ain't happening.

 

Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 10:54 AM (NYnoe)

 

That's factually wrong. An UE extension bill does not have to start in the House.

 

Posted by: DrewM. at December 13, 2013 10:57 AM (fgb4J)

 

The bill number merely has to start with a "H", just like PlaceboCare.

 

Trust me - it's going to happen, and Bo(eh)ner and Ryan will vote for it.

Posted by: steveegg at December 13, 2013 07:01 AM (o44nj)

129 The thing that's still left me speechless is Paul Ryan's role as spokesman for this whole thing. It's one thing for him to say, "It doesn't go far enough," but to tell us it cuts spending when it doesn't? It's mind boggling. The guy was the paragon of fiscal responsibility in 2012 . . . what the hell happened?

Posted by: Hal at December 13, 2013 07:01 AM (MftY/)

130 Rockmom, there was no GOP bleeding last time.  Or the time before that.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at December 13, 2013 07:02 AM (eGmvn)

131 Total
War
All
The
Time


TWATT?

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at December 13, 2013 07:02 AM (gA69l)

132 It's bizarre to me that the GOP is not pressuring vulnerable Dems in light of the shellacking they are taking in the polls.

Instead we have guys like Matheson, who had been voting with Repubs, feeling ok voting for this because Rs like Chaffetz voted for Ryan's crap sandwich.

SMH

 

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at December 13, 2013 10:58 AM (zDsvJ)

 

There aren't any vulnerable Dems in the House.  We got rid of all of them in 2010.  There are a bunch of them in the Senate and they have to vote on this budget now.  If the Senate Republicans all vote against it, a few of the Dems are really screwed.  Harry Reid knows this, which is why he is already squawking that Senate Republicans MUST support this budget.

 

It's s fine piece of jujitsu if McConnell can pull it off.

Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 07:02 AM (Q4elb)

133 Sadly, as I've told the solicitors calling my house, the Republican Party needs to die, so a real opposition party can arise.

Posted by: that guy that always thinks we're boned at December 13, 2013 07:02 AM (evdj2)

134 dammit

Posted by: toby928© of the banned at December 13, 2013 07:02 AM (evdj2)

135 To repeat, WHY IS THE SHUTDOWN BAD? In '95, GOP was blamed by 30 fucking points and picked up a Senate seat and lost 2 House seats. Here, blame was equal. Boulder college students were blaming THE FUCKING DEMS. The "we'll get blamed" argument has no merit whatsoever. And even if we were getting blamed, so fucking what. When we are blamed by a landslide it does not translate to electoral losses.

Posted by: prescient11 at December 13, 2013 07:03 AM (u+Dc+)

136 I'll see your SMOD and raise you SVOD.  The sweet Super Volcano Of Doom.

Posted by: Fritz at December 13, 2013 07:03 AM (UzPAd)

137

GOP could have just sat on their hands for a lower budget. It wouldn't be hard to make a case for unwinding sequester cuts for more targeted cuts, but why this wasn't $1 for $1 is baffling.

So the GOP is worried about political fallout from another shutdown? Two months after the shutdown, the GOP went from trailing by 7 points to leading by 5 on the generic ballot. Short-term politicking shouldn't trump long-term fiscal principles.

 

Posted by: JonathanEllis at December 13, 2013 10:59 AM (BdzEV)

 

It was almost $1 for $1...tax-and-fee increases for spending increases, that is.

Posted by: steveegg at December 13, 2013 07:03 AM (o44nj)

138 Vote Joker/Bane, 2016

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at December 13, 2013 07:03 AM (gA69l)

139 You're wrong rockmom. Matheson, for one, is vulnerable.

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at December 13, 2013 07:03 AM (zDsvJ)

140 So they've told social conservatives to pound sand many, many times. Now fiscal conservatism. Just who exactly does this party represent?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at December 13, 2013 07:03 AM (0q2P7)

141 What's your idea of what conservatives can do next when they do not control the Senate or the White House? Hmmm... I don't know. How about START negotiating from our actual position (cut spending) and work up from there. Instead of starting from the ALREADY "compromise" position of the Sequester and then work towards the Democrat position? How about saying, "No, these are the funding levels we agreed to just 2 years ago, and you want me to believe you're going to "cut spending" in 10 years? Do I look like an idiot to you?" Or, even, how about another shutdown? The last one provided lots of good theater that made people see how petty the President is- and there's no evidence it hurt Republicans at all. And this time it's the Republicans who can say, "Look, we agreed to this just 2 years ago, and they already want to renege. Why should we trust them about anything they say?" What I DON'T think we should do is agree to higher spending again, higher taxes (oh, sorry- "fees"), and try to make those pesky Conservatives the bad guys by saying, "Oh, but we PROMISE in 10 years we'll cut spending again!"

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 07:03 AM (PYAXX)

142 Republicans didnÂ’t have to do anything. They could have taken the spending levels of the 3 month CR that ended the shutdown (which were at the GOPÂ’s sequester level estimates) and simply expanded those levels to the entire year.

One of the reasons Boehner had to twist arms to pass the Budget Control Act of 2011 was because of the make-up of the sequester. Once the sequester went into effect, he promised the defense hawks that he would replace the cuts, but the bills died in the Senate. During this latest budget battle, House GOP leadership strongly considered passing a clean CR but they never had the votes.

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at December 13, 2013 07:04 AM (YjDyJ)

143 Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at December 13, 2013 07:04 AM (7ObY1)

144 I'm a bit extra pissy cause I went long in the market today expecting a bump from this budget shit sandwich. All I'm getting is the swirly in the locker room.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at December 13, 2013 07:04 AM (Ec6wH)

145 Can somebody explain to me why we're not in permanent gov't shutdown mode? Think about it. Last time, gov't spending dropped by 17% (I think) and all 'essential' gov't funding was still there and working. If our overlords in DC can function at only 83% capacity, why don't they just make that 83% the new 100%? Poof! Instant smaller government. The Republicans can say that they're being fiscally conservative, and the Democrats can have something to bitch about. Everybody's happy. Oh, who am I kidding? I've got bigger stones than the overlords, and I'm female.

Posted by: right wing whippersnapper at December 13, 2013 07:04 AM (NSh5j)

146

I'll see your SMOD and raise you SVOD. The sweet Super Volcano Of Doom.

 

Posted by: Fritz at December 13, 2013 11:03 AM (UzPAd)

 

Why does everybody forget about me?  Hello, McFly.  I'm much more likely to happen than either the meteor or the volcano, and I have more ways to be kicked off as well.

Posted by: Global Thermonuclear War at December 13, 2013 07:04 AM (o44nj)

147 Did you hear Boner yesterday claiming that their (GOP) principles have not been violated. - The principle that congresscritters are more highly paid welfare recipients?

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 13, 2013 07:04 AM (ee9LE)

148 129 Rockmom, there was no GOP bleeding last time. Or the time before that.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at December 13, 2013 11:02 AM (eGmvn)

 

Are you nuts?  Do you think all those polls were faked?  Until the Obamacare crash, the Democrats were leading the Republicans in the generic ballot by an almost unprecedented 10 points.  We can whine all we want about MSM propaganda, but the polls do not lie and the shutdown was a total disaster for the GOP.  Not to mention that it probably cost us the Governorship in Virginia. 

Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 07:04 AM (aBlZ1)

149 The shutdown (and sodomy laws) cost Cucinelli the race! And don't get me started on Mike Fucking Castle! He'd have solved all of this! Fucking teatards.

Posted by: RINO fucktard at December 13, 2013 07:05 AM (EXemq)

150 Fingers still crossed that this dies in the Senate. Really hoping some Dems crossover, or threaten to and neuter Reid. Unrelated but Weird news story on FB. Tiger Woods half-brother arrested for phoning a bomb threat to his employer, a Government agency. Didn't even know he had siblings. You can definitely see the resemblance in the eyes.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 13, 2013 07:05 AM (ZshNr)

151

So they've told social conservatives to pound sand many, many times. Now fiscal conservatism. Just who exactly does this party represent?

 

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at December 13, 2013 11:03 AM (0q2P7)

 

Democrats circa 1977.

Posted by: steveegg at December 13, 2013 07:05 AM (o44nj)

152 All I'm getting is the swirly in the locker room. Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at December 13, 2013 11:04 AM (Ec6wH) Hey, I'm doing the best I can, OK?

Posted by: Sandra Fluke[/i][/i][/u][/s] at December 13, 2013 07:05 AM (sbV1u)

153 This is the best thing I've ever read.

At least since reading that Alan Grayson lost $18 million.

Never mind, DrewM is better.

Posted by: Randall Hoven at December 13, 2013 07:05 AM (/aDwU)

154 >>This party couldn't even overturn the 60 w. lightbulb ban.
>>Posted by: Jinx the Cat
***********************

What's even sadder? This party GAVE US the lightbulb ban. But yeah, we just need to elect more republicans and all will be well, lol.

Posted by: Fck the GOP at December 13, 2013 07:05 AM (MVoEv)

155 Establishment shill shilling. . . Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 10:59 AM (Q4elb) Since the last shutdown was so disastrous, just LOOK at the generic ballot right now. I mean we are getting KILLED there. They could have passed another continuing resolution. Which they have been doing for YEARS. This was worse. The only reason this was done was to be rid of the sequester cuts which republicans have wanted to remove since their inception. Which tells me they will never cut spending. Which tells me that it is useless voting for Republicans at a national level.

Posted by: NWConservative at December 13, 2013 07:05 AM (dAUld)

156 The GOP has a majority in the House, yet we're told by the party shills here that they have to win elections to get us what we want

They have a majority, Obama's poll numbers are way down, Dems are running scared over 404Care, and Paul RINO fucking SURRENDERS?

The GOP needs to be reminded at times other than when they're writing their fundraising letters that they're supposed to represent US, not the editorial boards of the NY Times and Washington Post

Know what the worst part is? I'm not even surprised that the GOP folded like cheap lawn furniture


Posted by: kbdabear at December 13, 2013 07:05 AM (aTXUx)

157 It's s fine piece of jujitsu if McConnell can pull it off. Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 11:02 AM

You talking about Bitch "I wanna be home for Christmas, so let's pass ChoomCare" McConnell?

That fat eunuch has enough trouble passing gas. Astute political moves are far beyond his capabilities, to put it VERY mildly.

Posted by: MrScribbler at December 13, 2013 07:06 AM (veRXo)

158 The Stupid Party lives up to its name once again.  There's no hope for the country.  It's going to take a cataclysm to destroy socialism.

Posted by: Null at December 13, 2013 07:06 AM (P7hip)

159 Here's a fun fact for you...the GOP is RESPONSIBLE for the incandescent bulb ban. It was Fred Upton's idea. Fake opposition party.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 13, 2013 07:06 AM (AxE3L)

160

the Democrats were leading the Republicans in the generic ballot by an almost unprecedented 10 points

-

No, I didn't believe those    polls.  Remember the disaster that the 1995 shutdown was?  The GOP broke even in the house    in 1996     and gained two in the senate.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at December 13, 2013 07:06 AM (eGmvn)

161 But I can certainly see how the GOP not trying to unseat a white male Dem with a black female conservative Republican does wonders for its great outreach initiative. Lol

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at December 13, 2013 07:07 AM (zDsvJ)

162 "WHAT YOU'RE HIRED FOR, is to help us... does that seem clear to you? TO HELP US, not to... FUCK-US-UP... to help those who are going out there to try to earn a living... You fairy. You company man. "

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 13, 2013 10:57 AM

Ryan, I'm don't care who your cousin is, whose dick you're sucking, I'm going to have your ass!

Posted by: Ricky Roma at December 13, 2013 07:07 AM (aTXUx)

163 #153 What's even sadder? This party GAVE US the lightbulb ban. And I had to fume all over again when Dana Perino, exposing her RINO-tude, tried to explain this away on The Five, as "you don't understand, the lightbulb ban was part of a larger, comprehensive energy bill." Um, no, Dana, we do understand. We understand perfectly.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at December 13, 2013 07:08 AM (7ObY1)

164

Here's Charlie Cook writing about the impact of the Obamacare disaster:

 

[After the shutdown] Sure enough, the Democratic numbers in the generic ballot began to pull dramatically ahead, resembling a steep ascent up the side of a mountain, ending about 7 points ahead of Republicans, 45 percent to 38 percent—an advantage that, were it to last until the election, would give Democrats a chance to recapture the House.

 

Keep fucking that chicken. 

Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 07:09 AM (aBlZ1)

165 Game. Set. Match.


Posted by: Math at December 13, 2013 07:09 AM (5ikDv)

166
"Somebody needs to give Ryan the Ricky Roma speech to remind him of who he fucking works for."

COFFEE IS FOR CLOSERS.

Posted by: Zombie Commie Walter Cronkite at December 13, 2013 07:09 AM (oNqbW)

167

What political party does Charlie Cook belong to?    

I thought so.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at December 13, 2013 07:09 AM (eGmvn)

168 Also, Rockmom, let's talk about those "cuts" we'd be facing starting in January. They're not cuts. Spending would have been higher, year-over-year, across the board in 2014 even without this craptastic capitulation. And I'm not sure why you would blame Republicans in the House for Barky's decision to cut operational expenses instead of administrative ones. That's rather like blaming a parent for their kid going hungry when the kid refuses to eat what's cooked for supper.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 07:10 AM (PYAXX)

169 137 Vote Joker/Bane, 2016 --- You think paying me... gives you CONTROL over me? Do you FEEL in control?

Posted by: Bane at December 13, 2013 07:10 AM (/Crba)

170 Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 13, 2013 11:06 AM (AxE3L) Better yet, they never even tried to rescind the incandescent lightbulb legislation. The elites of both stripes really are better than us!

Posted by: Hrothgar at December 13, 2013 07:10 AM (cb/Vq)

171 Good post, DrewM.

Posted by: Baldy at December 13, 2013 07:10 AM (2bql3)

172 These motherfuckers owe social conservatives an apology.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 13, 2013 07:10 AM (Y92Nd)

173 Do nothing? Are you arguing for another shutdown? Why is thisthe conservative option? Part of the deal made to end the last shutdown and stop the GOP bleeding was to go to conference on the budgets that actually passed the House and Senate this year. This is not a bill that was just written out of thin air by 6 people in the last 2 weeks. It's a compromise based on budgets that already passed, one of which was Paul Ryan's original conservative budget. That budget was DOA in the Senate. What's your idea of what conservatives can do next when they do not control the Senate or the White House? Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 10:59 AM (Q4elb) The GOP has been saying the following for, what, 30 years or more? We will pass a Federal debt ceiling that will never, ever, ever be increased. We will balance the budget. We will pass budgets that make actual reductions to spending, not merely reductions to the rate of growth. We are fiscal conservatives who recognize and vow to deal with the seriousness of the looming issues with Social Security and Medicare. All of those statements are lies, damned lies and blow well past statistics and into Mann hockey stick territory. I'm sorry, but you, and by you, I mean you, specifically, are a fool if you believe anything the GOP says about this. I have history and facts on my side. You have, what, exactly? Oh. Yes. Pragmatic realism. Uh. Huh. Because, you see, I seem to recall that 2002-2006 occurred and the delirium about permanent Republican control and what happened? Yeah. Not one single thing was done. I do not believe the GOP on this. I do not see how any person can.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 07:10 AM (VtjlW)

174 Does this budget make my ass look fat?

Posted by: Fat Assed RINO at December 13, 2013 07:10 AM (bUmSq)

175

 

Amen, Alex

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at December 13, 2013 07:11 AM (eGmvn)

176 Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 11:10 AM (VtjlW) Roll up the thread. We're done here.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 07:12 AM (PYAXX)

177 >>they arenÂ’t sure the blame will be placed on the Republicans this time.
***********************
No doubt republicans would have been blamed. Certain members of the republicans in Congress and useful idiots like rockmom(aka rinomom) would have seen to it, just like they did with the October "shutdown".




Posted by: Great Chief at December 13, 2013 07:12 AM (MVoEv)

178 The thing that's still left me speechless is Paul Ryan's role as spokesman for this whole thing. It's one thing for him to say, "It doesn't go far enough," but to tell us it cuts spending when it doesn't? It's mind boggling. The guy was the paragon of fiscal responsibility in 2012 . . . what the hell happened? Posted by: Hal at December 13, 2013 11:01 AM (MftY/) -------------------------- If anyone cared, I brought up his pedigree months before the election as my biggest problem with him being on the ticket. The only "job" Paul Ryan ever held was as a teenager, chasing pussy as a ski instructor or tooling around in the Wienermobile. Straight out of school, he's working his way into congressional staffing, and then eventually into elected office AT THE AGE OF 27. What the fuck business does someone like that have making laws for the rest of us? Essentially, he's Gabriel Malor, but into chicks.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 13, 2013 07:12 AM (CJjw5)

179 Until the Obamacare crash... Yes--if only someone had seen that coming. I take cold comfort in knowing that at some point, we will have less than zero fiscal room for maneuver. This "compromise" moves us closer to that outcome, not away from it. Dress it up in political expediency if it makes some of you feel better.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 13, 2013 07:12 AM (659DL)

180 The only reason sequester really hurt the military is that they were not allowed what to cut to meet them. If the military were allowed to cut bases that they want to cut w/o congressional interference and cut shitty weapon system develop that they want to cut they could have met sequester with room to spare."

Winner, winner chicken dinner.

We could cut 20% of DoD and not hurt our national security one iota.

We could cut the OTHER 80% of govt, the non-DoD spending, by 20% and not hurt our economic safety nets and other govt real needs one iota.

There is easily 20% of waste, lard, garbage and plain political graft in the system.

It is DESIGNED to not be removable by the same forces of Big Spending who are vested in the system.

Posted by: Zombie Commie Walter Cronkite at December 13, 2013 07:13 AM (oNqbW)

181 Posted by: BlueStateRebel at December 13, 2013 11:08 AM (7ObY1) Dana was waxing eloquent about how much she liked Beckel personally the other day, and that recalibrated her for me, not that I have much use for anyone on the five!

Posted by: Hrothgar at December 13, 2013 07:13 AM (cb/Vq)

182 Roll up the thread. We're done here. Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 11:12 AM (PYAXX) Pshaw. This is the HQ. Nothing is ever done. Soooo, how 'bout them longbows?

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 07:13 AM (VtjlW)

183 And I'm not sure why you would blame Republicans in the House for Barky's decision to cut operational expenses instead of administrative ones. That's rather like blaming a parent for their kid going hungry when the kid refuses to eat what's cooked for supper.

 

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 11:10 AM (PYAXX)

 

Oh, I don't know, maybe because that's the way the Budget Control Act was written??  There was no discretion given to any agency head or POTUS on those cuts.  That was the whole point, to make those cuts painful with no way to get around them. 

 

This was a shit sandwich that everyone had to take a bite of.  Which is what usually happens when you have divided government.

Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 07:13 AM (aBlZ1)

184 I do not believe the GOP on this. I do not see how any person can. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 11:10 AM

Now now, AtC. Everything will be fine as long as your support all Republican candidates. They may vote like a Democrat, talk like a Democrat, take money from Democrat donors and play golf with Choom Boy, but they're Republican, so that gives us Teh Powah!!11!!

Posted by: MrScribbler at December 13, 2013 07:13 AM (veRXo)

185

The GOP needs to die.

 

That is all.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 13, 2013 07:13 AM (zF6Iw)

186 OT from Drudge: It's snowing in Cairo. That Malay not exactly be hell freezing over but it's close.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 13, 2013 07:14 AM (ee9LE)

187

It appears - at least from Nancy Pelosi telling her caucus to 'embrace the suck' - that people on all parts of this are unhappy with the results.  That doesn't mean it is a good deal, but it is, I think, reason to pause.

 

And pausing, I ask what deal could be reached with the Senate being in Harry Reid's control and with Barack Obama as president that would be fiscally better?  I can't see a shut down working any better for conservatives than it did the last time - for what it is worth the public does not like shut downs and conservatives will be blamed.

And for that matter a shut down would provide a nice sideshow to distract from the ObamaCare fiasco (Operation Rolling Disaster) and I don't want that getting out of the public eye.  Eventually something will arrive to push it out of sight, but I don't want to hasten that day if i can help it.*

 

*The fact that it cannot work will continue to bring it back up, but I want it front and center as much as is possible.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Death Capades - ObamaCare on Ice! Sponsored by the Outrage Outlet at December 13, 2013 07:14 AM (hLRSq)

188 I do not believe the GOP on this. I do not see how any person can. --- Hear hear. I'm also less pissed about the spending here than Boehner giving away the fucking store by giving the Dems an easier opportunity to raising taxes.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 13, 2013 07:14 AM (/Crba)

189

Doing my best  imitation of a smug , above it all guy,  it looks like one side would not be satisfied with any deal made by the GOP and wants a  final showdown of  fire and brimstone which may save the country  or may   cause the collapse of our country.   

 

The otherside  seems to be okay with delaying an obvious financial clustertruck by kicking the can down the road to live  to fight another day knowing they keep losing ground  each day they save to fight again.  

 

I know there has to be a middle ground here  I just don't know what it is. 

Posted by: polynikes at December 13, 2013 07:15 AM (m2CN7)

190 Pshaw. This is the HQ. Nothing is ever done.


Soooo, how 'bout them longbows?

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 11:13 AM (VtjlW)


There's always another deceased equine to flog...

Posted by: joncelli at December 13, 2013 07:15 AM (RD7QR)

191 125 I don't know how much sicker I can feel about everything at this point. We have no representation. In the face of the most determined and insidious assault on America in our history, we have a non-opposing opposition party. ... We need a Lech Walesa. Nothing less will do. Posted by: rrpjr at December 13, 2013 11:01 AM (s/yC1) --- I'm not even outraged anymore. My give-a-damn is completely busted. You may be right about needing a Lech Walesa. Election stealing will continue until people march in the streets.

Posted by: votermom at December 13, 2013 07:15 AM (GSIDW)

192 This is a declaration of futility, not war. Ryan, Boehner et al are simply incapable of imagining that confronting the bullies in the Senate is not only advisable but inevitable. This is a lea for us to win the Senate, which we can do, but the catch is they want to stay in charge when we govern. Then we would have small incrementalism steps, when what we need is group prosecutions of Democrat bureaucrats, the closing of agencies, the passing of the Liberty Amendments and the return of limited government. Those are scary things to Boehner and buddies

Posted by: MTF at December 13, 2013 07:15 AM (RZ1au)

193 alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 11:10 AM (VtjlW) Bur Boehner said he is as conservative as anyone on the hill. He meant anyone that is part of the GOPe!

Posted by: Hrothgar at December 13, 2013 07:16 AM (cb/Vq)

194 I see both sides on this, I think it was a dumb move for Ryan to offer an Olive Branch while Obama and Democrats are on the ropes, but at the same time, if Republicans went into another shut down, it would be an enormous gift to a President and the Democrat Party.  I'm amazed there's still conservatives dumb enough to think that would be a good idea to go through that again.

I'm not spitting nails on the deal, however you want to run the numbers, we're talking about what our government spends in about 4 days.  The only way that math is ever going to point in a better direction is when we win back power.

The average annual deficit during Bush's tenure was around $250 billion.  Not perfect, but incredibly tame compared today, especially since we had two expensive raging wars going on at the time and Bush had pushed through one of the biggest tax cuts in a generation.  Obama has consistently ran over a trillion in deficits, with all sorts of new, expensive entitlements and all sorts of tax increases.

Elections have consequences, and this idea that Republicans are the same as Democrats on spending is just not true. 

Posted by: McAdams at December 13, 2013 07:16 AM (2TMCu)

195 The fact that some democrats     don't like the   amount of    increased spending in this particular bill does not    by any stretch make it acceptable to those of us who want a decrease in spending, and know that we have to have a decrease in spending.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at December 13, 2013 07:17 AM (eGmvn)

196 14 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor. Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther)


You need to update that, buddy.


Add Boehner and Ryan to it.

Posted by: Whadever at December 13, 2013 07:17 AM (Xv7f/)

197 5 So, can we all stop worrying about anal sex No. Forget federalism or Burke. Being a conservative means, above all, never putting your thumb in someone else's ass.

Posted by: Rick Santorum at December 13, 2013 07:18 AM (e7S2u)

198

Bur Boehner said he is as conservative as anyone on the hill.

 

He meant anyone that is part of the GOPe!

 

Posted by: Hrothgar at December 13, 2013 11:16 AM (cb/Vq)

 

Which puts him in the liberal half of his district-of-record.

Posted by: steveegg at December 13, 2013 07:18 AM (o44nj)

199

Elections have consequences...

 

-------------

 

And yet, how odd the GOP leadership is uninterested in handing those consequences to the Dems given the 2010 change in House control.

Posted by: @JohnTant at December 13, 2013 07:18 AM (PFy0L)

200 Truth is.....FICONS were sold out a long time ago (think Bush) along with SOCONS...... this is why I find it so funny when the God haters and baby killers in the GOP tell us SOCONS to "suck it up" because "although the GOP can't do anything on social issues because you guys are icky, at least we can hold the line on spending". How does it feel to come to the realization that you too have been suckered?

Posted by: FITP at December 13, 2013 07:18 AM (bAGYV)

201 Elections have consequences, and this idea that Republicans are the same as Democrats on spending is just not true. "Were" and "are" You have a tense problem there.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 13, 2013 07:19 AM (659DL)

202 197 5 So, can we all stop worrying about anal sex

No.

Forget federalism or Burke. Being a conservative means, above all, never putting your thumb in someone else's ass.

Posted by: Rick Santorum at December 13, 2013 11:18 AM (e7S2u)


So a forefinger is okay?

Posted by: Reggie at December 13, 2013 07:19 AM (RD7QR)

203 I'm sorry, but you, and by you, I mean you, specifically, are a fool if you believe anything the GOP says about this. I have history and facts on my side. You have, what, exactly? Oh. Yes. Pragmatic realism. Uh. Huh. Because, you see, I seem to recall that 2002-2006 occurred and the delirium about permanent Republican control and what happened? Yeah. Not one single thing was done. --------------------- I'm sexually aroused, Commander.

Posted by: LT McCaffey at December 13, 2013 07:19 AM (CJjw5)

204 How come when the GOP bends us over and fucks us up the squeakhole on FISCAL matters, we're not hearing from the shills?

Where's their spokesholes here who tell us that we don't understand dealmaking and legislative procedure, that we're getting the best deal possible?

Why aren't they here telling us that we need a super-duper majority and it's our fault for not donating enough time and money?

Well, the first shill to show up ....

MAKE YOUR OWN FUCKIN' SAMMICH!!!

Posted by: kbdabear at December 13, 2013 07:19 AM (aTXUx)

205

Elections have consequences, and this idea that Republicans are the same as Democrats on spending is just not true.

 

Posted by: McAdams at December 13, 2013 11:16 AM (2TMCu)

 

There's less than $40 billion out of $3.6 trillion difference between them.

Posted by: steveegg at December 13, 2013 07:19 AM (o44nj)

206 And pausing, I ask what deal could be reached with the Senate being in Harry Reid's control and with Barack Obama as president that would be fiscally better? I can't see a shut down working any better for conservatives than it did the last time - for what it is worth the public does not like shut downs and conservatives will be blamed. The other party can cancel five million insurance policies and still win a shutdown? Ludicrous. It isn't about not being able to fight or not being able to win. They simply don't want to fight. The GOP wants to be a big government progressive party. It simply represents a different group of interests than the Dems do.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 13, 2013 07:19 AM (TAP/5)

207 Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 11:13 AM (aBlZ1) So all those stories about agencies being told (at the beginning of sequester and then again during the shutdown) to "make it hurt" were all lies? Money is suddenly not fungible? The fact is Obama *could* have instructed the agencies- including DOD- to work around the sequester to maintain operational levels. Even if the "law was written that way," when has that EVER stopped Obama? Ever? Yes, sequester was a shit-sandwich. If you're a big-government loving spendthrift.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 07:19 AM (PYAXX)

208 Posted by: MTF at December 13, 2013 11:15 AM (RZ1au) Repub establishment is scared about prosecution of Dems for just cause, because they know that the Dems (and media) will prosecute Repubs for trivial BS if given the chance.

Posted by: Hrothgar at December 13, 2013 07:19 AM (cb/Vq)

209 Part of the deal made to end the last shutdown and stop the GOP bleeding was to go to conference on the budgets that actually passed the House and Senate this year.


The last shutdown had nothing to do with the budget.  And what makes you think the GOP was bleeding?  The TV tell you?  The Newspaper tell you?  The Democrats tell you?  Republican leadership tell you.  The first are all lying weasel Democrats.  The Republican leadership is lying to use it as a weapon to get shit like this.


There has no real evidence that the shutdown in 96 or the last shutdown actually has hurt Republican that is NONE.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at December 13, 2013 07:20 AM (T2V/1)

210 I'm sorry, but you, and by you, I mean you, specifically, are a fool if you believe anything the GOP says about this. I have history and facts on my side. You have, what, exactly? Oh. Yes. Pragmatic realism. Uh. Huh. Because, you see, I seem to recall that 2002-2006 occurred and the delirium about permanent Republican control and what happened? Yeah. Not one single thing was done.

I do not believe the GOP on this. I do not see how any person can.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 11:10 AM (VtjlW)

 

Yeah, let's whine some more about the 2002-2006 Republicans.  That's very effective. 

Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 07:20 AM (aBlZ1)

211 200 How does it feel to come to the realization that you too have been suckered? The distant memories of that realization occurring are very old and quite faded at this point...sigh

Posted by: akula51[/b][/i][/s] at December 13, 2013 07:20 AM (ZsGM2)

212 Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 11:10 AM (VtjlW)

Roll up the thread. We're done here.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 11:12 AM (PYAXX)



Yeah, I was going to post something, but that pretty much did it.

Posted by: grognard at December 13, 2013 07:20 AM (/29Nl)

213 I know there has to be a middle ground here I just don't know what it is. Posted by: polynikes at December 13, 2013 11:15 AM (m2CN7) For all the screeching done about this, and that's just by me, this sums up the problem nicely.
The problem with this is one of trust. What used to be the base does not trust the GOP for reasons nearly too numerous to list. What used to be the base has been told time and time and time and time and time and time and time again that you have to wait, we must be pragmatic, blah blah yadda yadda. Well. What used to be the base were good little soldiers. And in response? The GOP turns around and spits in what used to be the base's eye. What used to be the base is done. Done. Beyond done. I have yet to see any acknowledgement by those advocating the pragmatic position that what used to be the base has valid, legitimate reasons grounded in history and reality for disbelieving what the GOP says now. Instead, it is nothing but vituperation. Good luck with that.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 07:20 AM (VtjlW)

214 I saw Deceased Equine open for RINOplasty in '09.

Posted by: Azenogoth at December 13, 2013 07:21 AM (LJpVo)

215 Earlier sven

The GOP is as rendered so useful an oppositon party it may as well not be there.

It's worse than that they're actively in the way.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at December 13, 2013 07:21 AM (DL2i+)

216

So a forefinger is okay?

 

Posted by: Reggie at December 13, 2013 11:19 AM (RD7QR)

 

Molehills are my choice.  The trick is to fall just right so you don't miss.

Posted by: Bo(eh)ner at December 13, 2013 07:21 AM (o44nj)

217

>>126. I knew Ryan was a self-serving prick when he kept bragging about all his fitness bullshit. >>

 

 

Right you are.

Posted by: rrpjr at December 13, 2013 07:21 AM (s/yC1)

218 they might think we all collectively have adhd, but the last budget and the one before that and the one Before that etc, every time when we accrue massive amt of debt yet again, we are told it's good because now we have them on the ropes and we are going to slap them silly the next go round.

please!
btw  remember in 2008-2009 1 Trillion yes 1 Trillion dollars was an amazing amt of money bein g spent to bail out All those banks , gm and such?
yet we are now spending that every year!
where the hell is it going?!
another thing, so the average joe that lost his job and insurance  or has been reduced to part time work  BECAUSE of the deeds of these Same wankers  but was a Hill when ridding Themselves of paying out unemployment benefits? to those they caused the most Harm to?
but a trillion a YEAR  is still being spent on those ___?

where is the money going .
we had military shit cut and  the average joe , but spending is still?

Posted by: willow at December 13, 2013 07:22 AM (nqBYe)

219 Republicans (here and in D.C.) to SoCons every year since time immemorial: "Shut the fuck up, we've got this."
Republicans (here in this thread and in D.C.) to FiCons for the past five years: "Shut the fuck up, we've got this."
We've got to spend more to spend less.
We've got to give up spending cuts to get more spending cuts.
We've got to make deals with the devil to avoid making deals with the devil.
In all honesty, this GOP fanboyism is disgusting to watch. Folks like to rip Democrats for their hero worship, but Republicans seem just as dedicated to their own idol - the GoP itself, the idea, the name.
If the GoP says we've got to take the leaven to get flatbread later, then fuck ALL you crazy fringe types, that is what's got to happen.
...do you hear yourselves? Is this some kind of Stockholm syndrome? Are you this mindlessly dedicated to winning a war in the out years that you will not even live to see?
LiB folks are said to be nuts, leaning towards anarchy, and desirous of chaos, but to be blatantly honest, they really are just men and women who end up shaking their heads and laughing sadly when they realize that even their ostensible allies are against them.
The burning times are a-comin', and it's going to be yet another tremendous irritant that we'll have Republican fanboys in the wastelands bitching about how we should have gotten behind even more bad deals that We The People, in the ultimate analysis, had no fucking say in anyways.
tl;dr: The fix is in. Spending six trillion a year by '23, and we've got idiots in this thread screaming about how we should trust that we're going to address the real issues.... eventually.
Eventually... hahahahahaha.
Let it Burn - not an assertion of will, but an acceptance of the inevitable.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at December 13, 2013 07:22 AM (AdnS/)

220 65 Also, Boehner and those guys shouldn't be going to the microphones and saying that the Tea Party guys are a bunch of poopyheads. He should be selling the deal, saying, no, it isn't everything you want, but we did get this that is important to you. Instead, insults. Posted by: blaster at December 13, 2013 10:49 AM (W6bkf) THIS. If you are going to cave just shut the fuck up about it and don't trash the more conservative to make them out to be extremists. The Dems don't ever do this. They don't have to. They lockstep to the party, even when faced with perverts and criminals within.

Posted by: Guido - 'now with 75+% more hate' at December 13, 2013 07:22 AM (LsF5M)

221 These fucks really do equate "conservative" with sex issues only. If you oppose gay marriage, or are sufficiently pro-life, that makes you "conservative as anyone on this hill." You know, they have Christian Democrat parties all over Europe. It's socialism, just without the flavored lube.

Posted by: wooga at December 13, 2013 07:22 AM (e7S2u)

222

I have yet to see any acknowledgement by those advocating the pragmatic position that what used to be the base has valid, legitimate reasons grounded in history and reality for disbelieving what the GOP says now. Instead, it is nothing but vituperation.

 

Good luck with that.

 

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 11:20 AM (VtjlW)

 

They're following the Rat playbook from the late-1960s, updated for the mid-2000s.  In short, it's to drive the entirety of the old base out in favor of a new base.

Posted by: steveegg at December 13, 2013 07:23 AM (o44nj)

223 Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 13, 2013 11:19 AM (TAP/5) The GOP wants to be a big government progressive party. It simply represents a different group of interests than the Dems do. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 13, 2013 11:19 AM (TAP/5) GOP aspires to be a big government technical progressive party. Dems are a big government emotional progressive party. The difference around the margins is trivial!

Posted by: Hrothgar at December 13, 2013 07:23 AM (cb/Vq)

224 Rockmom just loves her some Paul Ryan. I believe she's in the worthless bastard's district.
------------------------------------

RINOmom loves her some RINOs. There is no policy/principle she isn't willing to abandon.

Posted by: Great Chief at December 13, 2013 07:23 AM (MVoEv)

225 Curious as to Mr. "Poor is a choice" Maetenloch's view of the richie kid who killed four people and got off 'cause he's rich. You know, 'cause choice, and 'cause my kids wouldn't get off, 'cause I've chosen to be poor and such.

Posted by: . at December 13, 2013 07:23 AM (pj6Nr)

226 The GOP "leadership" is like a dose of clap. Tough to get rid of but necessary for the health of the whole. And Boehner is the canker on the end of the GOP dick. Fucking rino bastard.

Posted by: maddogg at December 13, 2013 07:24 AM (xWW96)

227 You gonna eat your fat?

Posted by: Spaulding at December 13, 2013 07:24 AM (bUmSq)

228 The last shutdown had nothing to do with the budget. And what makes you think the GOP was bleeding? The TV tell you? The Newspaper tell you? There was a bad NBC poll. It is flabbergasting - the last deal on the table was a one year delay of Obamacare. It was the sensible option, and given the website problems Barry should have jumped on it.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 13, 2013 07:24 AM (TAP/5)

229 200 How does it feel to come to the realization that you too have been suckered? --- Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

Posted by: Johnny Rotten at December 13, 2013 07:24 AM (/Crba)

230 sorry about the rant.

Posted by: willow at December 13, 2013 07:24 AM (nqBYe)

231 Yeah, let's whine some more about the 2002-2006 Republicans. That's very effective. It's not "whining" to point out that actions speak louder than words and that Republicans have not engaged in any (meaningful) Conservative actions since at least 2002. Do remember the story "The Boy Who Cried Wolf?" Do you remember the moral? Liars lie. Eventually they will not be believed. The VAG has reached that point. If the wolf eats them, that's their own f-ing fault.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 07:25 AM (PYAXX)

232 177.  Empire of Jeff.

Thank you.  I believe the same thing.  Lifelong bureapparatchiks are all the same no matter whether their self-serving ambition and political expediency makes them self-identify as GOP or Democrat.

John Kasich is another of the breed.

That's what makes Trey Gowdy such a rock star.  He's actually worked as a prosecuting attorney which is excellent training for bullshit detection.  It's also what makes Boehner such a disappointment.  He's actually run a business.  He should know better than he shows.

Posted by: Whadever at December 13, 2013 07:25 AM (Xv7f/)

233 Willow, would a giant spider pic help?

Posted by: maddogg at December 13, 2013 07:25 AM (xWW96)

234

Over the past 30 years, the GOP has promised to cut     spending, balance the      budget,      eliminate onerous legislation, and close federal agencies.

 

In that 30 years, the only thing resembling action on those promises was the elimination of the assault weapons ban, and that was a sunset which was not acted upon, so it was a fulfillment by inaction.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at December 13, 2013 07:26 AM (eGmvn)

235 this idea that Republicans are the same as Democrats on spending is just not true.

Indeed.  There's at least 4% difference, spread over ten years.

Posted by: toby928© of the banned at December 13, 2013 07:26 AM (evdj2)

236 213 The problem with this is one of trust. What used to be the base does not trust the GOP for reasons nearly too numerous to list. -- Yup. Now that the whole country, even the hard-core left, doesn't trust Obama, Boehner & Ryan decide to catch up on the distrust gap.

Posted by: votermom at December 13, 2013 07:26 AM (GSIDW)

237 maddog, yikes, i might engage in another rant with thrown objects involved.

Posted by: willow at December 13, 2013 07:26 AM (nqBYe)

238 Yeah, let's whine some more about the 2002-2006 Republicans. That's very effective. Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 11:20 AM (aBlZ1) It is effective because it is proof that your position, and by your I mean the one that you are advocating, is countermanded by facts and reality. You assert that nothing can be done with control of the House and the Senate. I point out that from 2002 - 2006 such control existed and nothing was done. Your response speaks for itself. It is interesting to note that you cannot provide any factual counterpoint to my presentation of evidence as to why I, and by I, I mean me, personally, do not trust the GOP based on the GOP's prior actions. Instead, you are left with referring to such as whining. It is not whining. It is an acknowledgement of actual prior actions which support my current conclusion. Effective? Yes, it is exceptionally effective to brush aside all evidence contrary to your assertions and to respond to the same with condescension when attempting to persuade others of the reasonableness of your view. Exceptionally and extraordinarily so.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 07:26 AM (VtjlW)

239 Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 11:26 AM (VtjlW) Bunk.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 07:28 AM (PYAXX)

240

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 13, 2013 11:19 AM (TAP/5)

 

I do not think a shut down and ObamaCare would be connected to one another at all.  I don't think the MSM would permit it.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Death Capades - ObamaCare on Ice! Sponsored by the Outrage Outlet at December 13, 2013 07:28 AM (hLRSq)

241 +100 for alex.

Posted by: willow at December 13, 2013 07:28 AM (nqBYe)

242 When Tip O'Neill shut down the govt. that was a "good thing". He was fightin' for the working man, the middle class the children... When the President has a D after his name there should never be a shut down. Right? The media and the Dems collided to hammer the GOP for shutting down the govt. They did everything they could to make it seem worse than it was. Our govt. is behaving in a malicious, vindictive manner. Why not shut it down as much as possible.

Posted by: yujin at December 13, 2013 07:28 AM (chx4w)

243 The problem with this is one of trust. What used to be the base does not trust the GOP for reasons nearly too numerous to list. VERY well said...the whole thing

Posted by: FITP at December 13, 2013 07:29 AM (bAGYV)

244 New podcast thread.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 13, 2013 07:29 AM (PYAXX)

245 I still don't know how I feel about the deal itself honestly. What's more infuriating is the way it's being sold. If they had come out and said "it's kind a bad deal, but we're putting our chips on ObamaCare disaster right now and making a political move." I might have been more receptive. Although all this swagger, and walking around like the bravest little commandos here isn't really helping either. I suppose y'all gonna spend the next few months fighting primary battles? Working your way though the party to get to be in control? Starting your own party? I suspected as not. Listen, I don't have time for that shit either, but in return, I have to realize that I'm leaving my chances of getting a good candidate up to blind faith. (And I'm mostly OK with that, because I'm starting to think it would burn even if we managed to get a conservative government elected, I need to be putting my time elsewhere.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at December 13, 2013 07:29 AM (GaqMa)

246 So, do they make a stompy boot with a 3" stiletto heel?

Posted by: Asking for a friend. at December 13, 2013 07:29 AM (bUmSq)

247 Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 11:26 AM (VtjlW) ---------------------------- I'm about to play the Knockout Game with my boner and post the video to WorldStarHipHop.com.

Posted by: LT McCaffey at December 13, 2013 07:30 AM (CJjw5)

248 I don't care what you say. I care what you do. Tell me you love me and you need me and you can't live without me and then throw things at me and I know which I believe.

 

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 10:59 AM (VtjlW)

 

I love you, Empress.  I need you and cannot live without you.

 

**throws jumbo box of Godiva chocolates at AtC**

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 13, 2013 07:30 AM (zF6Iw)

249 I wonder if there's video anywhere of AtC arguing a case.

Posted by: joncelli at December 13, 2013 07:30 AM (RD7QR)

250

Willow

How about some cute house shoes then?

http://tinyurl.com/kcctpa8

Posted by: maddogg at December 13, 2013 07:30 AM (xWW96)

251 It is interesting to note that you cannot provide any factual counterpoint to my presentation of evidence as to why I, and by I, I mean me, personally, do not trust the GOP based on the GOP's prior actions. Instead, you are left with referring to such as whining. It is not whining. It is an acknowledgement of actual prior actions which support my current conclusion.


Effective? Yes, it is exceptionally effective to brush aside all evidence contrary to your assertions and to respond to the same with condescension when attempting to persuade others of the reasonableness of your view. Exceptionally and extraordinarily so.


Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 11:26 AM (VtjlW)

 

I have an actual job and I can't sit here all day composing 500-word essays to respond to you.  Sorry.  Guess that means you just nailed me.  Congratulations, you win the Internet today.

 

 

Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 07:30 AM (aBlZ1)

252 241 +100 for alex.

Posted by: willow at December 13, 2013 11:28 AM (nqBYe)


Make that +200 to the pot.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at December 13, 2013 07:30 AM (T2V/1)

253 Yeah, let's whine some more about the 2002-2006 Republicans. That's very effective. Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 11:20 AM (aBlZ1) No, let's talk now. I see no, no tactical or strategic advantages to ceding one inch of ground on anything to the Democrats. You only compromise when the other side is acting in good faith. We know that is not the case. 1. Democrats want to do policy A that is demonstrably bad for the country and that buttresses their power base. 2. Republicans resist. 3. Democrats and media allies call Republicans monsters, etc. 4. Republicans cave (compromise). 5. Democrats institute policy that is demonstrably bad for the country and that buttresses their power base. 6. Repeat.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 13, 2013 07:31 AM (659DL)

254 Posted by: toby928© of the banned at December 13, 2013 11:26 AM (evdj2) Yes, and the 4% is spread over ten years with absolutely no teeth in actually maintaining that "theoretical" cap! In actuality,Ii can virtually guarantee that the entire set of cuts will be pushed out to year ten due to the continuing economic crisis. Definitely a win win for sane people!

Posted by: Hrothgar at December 13, 2013 07:31 AM (cb/Vq)

255 Enough talk about starting a Third Party ..

We need to talk about starting a Second Party

Posted by: kbdabear at December 13, 2013 07:31 AM (aTXUx)

256 "Yeah, let's whine some more about the 2002-2006 Republicans. That's very effective."

Its relevant. Alot of us worked our asses off at the ground level to FINALLY give the GOP control of Congress. And what did they do? Couldn't keep their hand out of the cash register. Couldn't keep their fly zipped around the help. Nothing I've seen says they won't do it all over again. Fuck em.

Posted by: Fen at December 13, 2013 07:31 AM (a422o)

257 230 sorry about the rant. Posted by: willow at December 13, 2013 11:24 AM (nqBYe)
Don't be, everything you said is true. The defenders of the GoP will not answer it truth, though, because they know they are in service to the indefensible.
Frankly, I think it is a psychological defensive measure. >_> They know we're screwed, and they cannot handle it emotionally. Thus, Boehner's astonishing kidney punch to the base at large goes unchallenged, or is outright defended by those among us desperate to be lied to, and... we get these long circular firing squads between Those Who Know We Are Boned and Those Who Also Know but Won't Admit It.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at December 13, 2013 07:31 AM (AdnS/)

258 maddog, *&^$     !

Posted by: willow at December 13, 2013 07:32 AM (nqBYe)

259

I was very sceptical of the defund-shutdown, but come on, this would be different: the GOP would defend a bi-partisan agreement from a few years ago, that even passed Harry Fcking Reids Senate. The thing has Dem fingerprints all over it. So this time, the shutdown would be Democrats fault, because they dont wanna keep their word.

 

And if the DC GOP cannot hold Dems to their word before the public, then what are they good for anyway?

Posted by: The Awkward-Turtle at December 13, 2013 07:32 AM (i65ch)

260 I have an actualjob and I can't sit here all day composing 500-word essays to respond to you. Sorry. Guess that means you just nailed me. Congratulations, you win the Internet today. Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 11:30 AM (aBlZ1) --------------------------------- Uh-huh. That and your previous response to AtC had to be the prissiest, sour-grapes pack of thumb suckery that I've seen in a month.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 13, 2013 07:33 AM (CJjw5)

261 255 Enough talk about starting a Third Party .. We need to talk about starting a Second Party Posted by: kbdabear at December 13, 2013 11:31 AM (aTXUx)
This is.... I don't know whether to laugh or scream.
Comment of the Year, in my opinion.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at December 13, 2013 07:33 AM (AdnS/)

262

So here's the deal - you want us to come out and vote GOP for the midterms?

Fine. One condition: Boehner's head on a stick.

Posted by: Fen at December 13, 2013 07:33 AM (a422o)

263 Thus, Boehner's astonishing kidney punch to the base at large goes unchallenged, or is outright defended by those among us desperate to be lied to, and... we get these long circular firing squads between Those Who Know We Are Boned and Those Who Also Know but Won't Admit It.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at December 13, 2013 11:31 AM (AdnS/)




Spot on.  Classic denial.

The ramifications of what it would mean to actually fight are far too much for their psyches to bear, therefore they avoid the problem and enable the abusers.

Posted by: grognard at December 13, 2013 07:34 AM (/29Nl)

264 Yep, Alex sums up the way I, my husband and my family feel. The trust is gone. We're done supporting empty worded rhetoric peddlers.

Posted by: DangerGirl at December 13, 2013 07:34 AM (U7Ivf)

265 Unpossible! 5 D seats Roll Call identifies as being top risks to go R. "Roll Call's 10 Most Vulnerable House Members Revealed" http://www.rollcall.com/news/roll_calls_10_most_vulnerable_house_members_revealed-228867-1.html?pg=2 Note, some of the other 5 (Rs) are facing primary challenges. It looks like 2 of the 5 might flip to D.

Posted by: Y-not at December 13, 2013 07:34 AM (zDsvJ)

266 Are you nuts? Do you think all those polls were faked? Until the Obamacare crash, the Democrats were leading the Republicans in the generic ballot by an almost unprecedented 10 points.

Ooh the Dems won the news cycle.

GOP should probably "triangulate" a little more.


/BillClinton

Posted by: noone, really [/i] [/b] at December 13, 2013 07:34 AM (5ikDv)

267 While it is irksome that they might have thought it was in their, and the country's, political interest to make a bad deal, the really irksome part is that they obviously think we are idiots who will believe it was a good deal.

Posted by: toby928© of the banned at December 13, 2013 07:34 AM (evdj2)

268 oy.

looks at alex..

an actual job..

Posted by: willow at December 13, 2013 07:34 AM (nqBYe)

269 Don't Republicans have any responsibility for trying to actually govern competently?

Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 10:33 AM (Q4elb)


That is quite rich. Apparently, increasing spending is "governing competently".


Good to know.

Posted by: [/i]KG at December 13, 2013 07:34 AM (p7BzH)

270 I have an actualjob and I can't sit here all day composing 500-word essays to respond to you. Sorry. Guess that means you just nailed me. Congratulations, you win the Internet today. Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 11:30 AM (aBlZ1)
Well.
I guess that's that, then! The GoP is obviously defensible, OBVIOUSLY, but shit, ain't nobody got time for that!

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at December 13, 2013 07:34 AM (AdnS/)

271 chokes on my tea. hides in corner.

Posted by: willow at December 13, 2013 07:35 AM (nqBYe)

272

Ryan and Boehner remind of the minor hoodlums you see in gangster movies.  Gullible, trusting but only used and tolerated by the really big crooks until they were no longer useful then ... pow!  ... into the trash compactor, landfill or the freezer truck without a second thought. 

Think, Goodfellas with Harry Reid in the Joe Pesci/Tommy DeVito role and Paul Ryan as Morrie. 

After sticking an icepick in Paul's noggin, Harry says:  "I thought he'd never shut the fuck up..."

Posted by: Whadever at December 13, 2013 07:35 AM (Xv7f/)

273 The fires keep me warm. Let it burn.

Posted by: Pyromaniac at December 13, 2013 07:36 AM (j3hUJ)

274 .................


.......


Posted by: willow at December 13, 2013 07:37 AM (nqBYe)

275

Looks like the GOP has finally found a way to lose the mid-terms.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at December 13, 2013 07:37 AM (eGmvn)

276 Welcome to the party, pals.

Posted by: Socons at December 13, 2013 07:37 AM (ULg3N)

277 32 Do you really think massive blunt cuts in defense spending are a good thing? Given our mis-adventures around the world over the last decade, not to mention being 16 trillion dollars in debt...YES, I most certainly think we need to massively cut defense spending, along with entitlement programs.

Posted by: WVinMN at December 13, 2013 07:38 AM (4Pleu)

278 rockmom is someone that thought Roberts declaring Obamacare a tax would result in electoral victory in 2012.  Not exactly an intellectual juggernaut there.

Posted by: buzzion at December 13, 2013 07:38 AM (LI48c)

279 Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 10:33 AM (Q4elb)
Posted by: rockmom at December 13, 2013 11:30 AM (aBlZ1)
Are smoke breaks at your work always an hour long?

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at December 13, 2013 07:38 AM (vjQ/G)

280 Uh-huh. That and your previous response to AtC had to be the prissiest, sour-grapes pack of thumb suckery that I've seen in a month. Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 13, 2013 11:33 AM (CJjw5) Now, now, now, the day is young.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 13, 2013 07:38 AM (VtjlW)

281

249: " I wonder if there's video anywhere of AtC arguing a case."

 

I'd buy that for a dollar. 

Posted by: Azenogoth at December 13, 2013 07:38 AM (v6cwT)

282

There are two types of politicians:  Those willing to fight for conservative principles and those who are not.  I am focused only supporting the former.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at December 13, 2013 07:38 AM (l0lja)

283 I have an actualjob and I can't sit here all day composing 500-word essays to respond to you. Sorry. Guess that means you just nailed me. Congratulations, you win the Internet today. --- I assumed this was your job.

Posted by: Y-not at December 13, 2013 07:38 AM (zDsvJ)

284 And for that matter a shut down would provide a nice sideshow to distract from the ObamaCare fiasco (Operation Rolling Disaster) and I don't want that getting out of the public eye.

Principled. Opposition.

Ted Cruz And The Shutdown PUT Obamacare In The Public Eye

I would like this on a tshirt please.

Posted by: noone, really [/i] [/b] at December 13, 2013 07:39 AM (5ikDv)

285 Posted by: Vashta Nerada at December 13, 2013 11:37 AM (eGmvn) Well just to be sure, they are going to spring Amnesty on us for the assured "win"!

Posted by: Hrothgar at December 13, 2013 07:41 AM (cb/Vq)

286 New thread but it's "just" about the podcast.

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at December 13, 2013 07:41 AM (vjQ/G)

287 whew, alright slips back in the room pours fresh tea for alex.

Posted by: willow at December 13, 2013 07:42 AM (nqBYe)

288 >>Principled. Opposition. With all the time-wasting bullshit our congress-critters engage in, I cannot believe that so few of them have the inclination to, you know, formulate persuasive arguments about the conservative position. And as someone alluded to earlier, it'd be nice if the GOP "leadership" (I use that term loosely) would also take the time to argue the merits of this deal rather than resorting to insulting the vast right wing conspiracy or casting aspersions on their motivations. They are hired to work for us. It's incumbent on the employee to explain his actions; not the boss.

Posted by: Y-not at December 13, 2013 07:44 AM (zDsvJ)

289 278 rockmom is someone that thought Roberts declaring Obamacare a tax would result in electoral victory in 2012. Not exactly an intellectual juggernaut there.

Posted by: buzzion at December 13, 2013 11:38 AM (LI48c)


Could it be that we have some "Mobyism" here?

Posted by: Vic[/i] at December 13, 2013 07:45 AM (T2V/1)

290 Posted by: Y-not at December 13, 2013 11:44 AM (zDsvJ) Congress is essentially a set of princes and princesses answerable only to their betters in the political swamp.

Posted by: Hrothgar at December 13, 2013 07:46 AM (cb/Vq)

291 One of my favorite Latin phrases is "Facta non verba" (Deeds, not words.)

(Another favorite is "Cogito ergo femina sum," for obvious reasons.)

Posted by: pookysgirl at December 13, 2013 07:47 AM (kMnHs)

292 To me it is instructive to note that the one positive policy success (this is ignoring prevention of Dems from inflicting even more damage) that the Republicans have was the 2011 sequester--which is now just like the parrot in Monty Python's Pet Shop.  I suppose the sequester is "just pining for the fjords" or "resting". 

If Boehner and company are not careful then this might be apropos.

"[Cromwell] commanded the Speaker to leave the Chair, and told them they had sat long enough, unless they had done more good, crying out You are no longer a Parliament, I say you are no Parliament. He told Sir Henry Vane he was a Jugler [sic]; Henry Martin and Sir Peter Wentworth, that they were Whoremasters; Thomas Chaloner, he was a Drunkard; and Allen the Goldsmith that he cheated the Publick: Then he bid one of his Soldiers take away that Fool's Bauble the mace and Thomas Harrison pulled the Speaker of the Chair; and in short Cromwell having turned them all out of the House, lock'd up the Doors and returned to Whitehall."

Posted by: wg at December 13, 2013 07:47 AM (Tlwio)

293

Could it be that we have some "Mobyism" here?

Posted by: Vic at December 13, 2013 11:45 AM (T2V/1)

 

Nah.  Just a not very bright establishment shill.  She's self admitted to connections with campaigns and people in politics.  Its obvious that she is a fan of the go along to get along big government but just in Republican hands types.

Posted by: buzzion at December 13, 2013 07:49 AM (LI48c)

294 I don't understand the frame of mind that accepts lying, betrayal, and above all, the failure to be an effective advocate, and then wants to give these people more power....because for some reason, it will all change once they get it.

Posted by: grognard at December 13, 2013 07:51 AM (/29Nl)

295 It's incumbent on the employee to explain his actions; not the boss.

Yes. It's like when my wife says " sometime you need to state the obvious". Uncommunicated principles and unexplained actions appear as tyrannical and to the audience.

You would think that Boehner would understand this. I think Cruz does. Especially since his principled stand was grounded in fact and borne out in reality a short time later.



Posted by: noone, really [/i] [/b] at December 13, 2013 07:51 AM (5ikDv)

296 "What's your idea of what conservatives can do next when they do not control the Senate or the White House?" It seems that they don't even have the Congress, judging by the supine position of the leadership.

Posted by: Decaf at December 13, 2013 07:52 AM (OD2ZF)

297

Except for her last couple of comments,  rockmom  has always presented her arguments in a reasonable manner without the ad hominens or sarcasm  whether you agreed with them or not. 

 

So I guess the appropriate response is fuck her.

Posted by: polynikes at December 13, 2013 07:53 AM (m2CN7)

298 Link via Instapundit...

YouÂ’re the freaking leader of the GOP.  If youÂ’re pissed off, vent in private, let an aide leak something in background or do what I do, get yourself in front of a pinball machine and beat the crap out of it.  You donÂ’t repeatedly go after conservatives group and by extension the base in that way and feed the MSMÂ’s  “GOP base crazy/angry” meme that they will jump all over because let me tell you, if you become the minority leader unlike Nancy Pelosi the media will have no interest in anything you have to say.

And if you canÂ’t trust your self-control in public then take President CoolidgeÂ’s advice and just be quiet.

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at December 13, 2013 07:53 AM (vjQ/G)

299 Have not read the comments, but the KILLER part? They cut the yearly cost of living increase for MILITARY Retirees (and military only) by 1% per year... for the next 20 years. Now, the COLA already does not keep up with inflation... but in 20 years, this is 22% LESS than all the other Government retirees would get... To say this military member feels betrayed by the GOP, would be a HUGE understatement. F'n Federal Workers who never did a dam thing but sit behind a desk get taken care of... we who put our lives on the line to protect this country.... boned. THIS is why they are rushing this through.... THIS is why they don't want to give people time to read it.

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 13, 2013 07:54 AM (lZBBB)

300 Matthew 25:32 says God will separate the sheep from the goats. Conservatives would do well to prune the goats from the party.

Do conservatives know what a goat looks like? Spurgeon said that the way the Bank of England taught tellers to identify counterfeit bills was by having them handle the real thing all day long. So a refocus on core principles? This will take time - several generations - but it's worth restoring.

I would re-title the article below: The Penalty for Letting Goats (and of course the Wolves) Into the Party.


Posted by: Crowley at December 13, 2013 07:55 AM (LSQSo)

301 You lose.

Posted by: Silent Cal at December 13, 2013 07:55 AM (evdj2)

302

I disagree with the subcategorization of conservativism; e.g., fiscal conservativism and social conservatism especially. It's true that some fiscal conservatives want a perpetual truce on social issues and think abortion, for example, is a no-win issue. It's also true that some social conservatives vehemently opposed to abortion and favoring traditional marriage like, say, Rick Santorum, are also proponents of big government solutions and even use despicable catchphrase terms like 'social justice'. However, both branches draw from the same wellspring, the same first principles: a less-is-better form of governance and the primacy of individual freedom.

 

It's also true that Democrats run on social issues because, as David Horowitz has pointed out, people vote with their gut, not their intellect. The moment a fiscal conservative type breaks out the charts and graphs is the moment he or she loses the audience--and the argument or the election. It should also be pointed out that the Democrats advocate abortion up to and including the ninth-month moment of birth. If a political party can't successfully campaign against de facto, state-sanctioned infanticide, then it doesn't deserve to exist.

Posted by: troyriser at December 13, 2013 07:57 AM (2jF2B)

303 Posted by: Romeo13 at December 13, 2013 11:54 AM (lZBBB)
To hell with the GoP, folks. It's not worth anything anymore.
They don't give a damn about the Socons.
They don't give a damn about the Ficons.
They don't give a damn about the military.
Why should we give a damn about them?

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at December 13, 2013 07:57 AM (AdnS/)

304 "I have an actualjob and I can't sit here all day composing 500-word essays to respond to you. Sorry. Guess that means you just nailed me. Congratulations, you win the Internet today." When losing an argument start insulting those who don't agree with you. Now, where did I see this before?

Posted by: Decaf at December 13, 2013 07:57 AM (OD2ZF)

305 Posted by: Romeo13 at December 13, 2013 11:54 AM (lZBBB) Excuse me... I need to be clear, I meant to say EX military member... I am, retired.

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 13, 2013 07:58 AM (lZBBB)

306 When losing an argument start insulting those who don't agree with you. Now, where did I see this before? Posted by: Decaf at December 13, 2013 11:57 AM (OD2ZF)
Joe Biden at the '12 VP debate?

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at December 13, 2013 07:59 AM (AdnS/)

307 New Ace thread up.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at December 13, 2013 07:59 AM (AdnS/)

308 Posted by: Romeo13 at December 13, 2013 11:54 AM (lZBBB) I do suspect that much like the Doc Fix, this is an accounting trick that will be "corrected" as we go along. I could be wrong, but it seems like an easy win for either side down the road. Which, if you think about it, means you're little more than a pawn in their larger political game. So that doesn't make it any better.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at December 13, 2013 07:59 AM (GaqMa)

309

305: Excuse me... I need to be clear, I meant to say EX military member... I am, retired."

 

You are still subject to recall and activation.

 

Unless they are kicked out, there is no such thing as an ex servicemember.

Posted by: Azenogoth at December 13, 2013 08:02 AM (f6ZLT)

310 235 this idea that Republicans are the same as Democrats on spending is just not true.

Indeed. There's at least 4% difference, spread over ten years.
Posted by: toby928

Where in the world are you getting these numbers?  Is this more TruCon math?

Here is the Heritage graph on the numbers (I guess they're just a RINO mouthpiece as well)
http://tinyurl.com/crslff

Show me the deficits from when Bush was President and compare them to Obama's.  It's not even close.

If you want to say the GOP was not as fiscal conservative as they should have been, I agree.  But that's a far cry from Bush GOP=Obama Democrats. 

Also, our deficits in the 2000's were in the shadow of a dot com bubble that had just burst, the worst attack on American soil in our history, and two raging wars.  Obama's deficits are just Keyensian bullshit.

Posted by: McAdams at December 13, 2013 08:15 AM (2TMCu)

311 Show me the deficits from when Bush was President and compare them to Obama's. It's not even close. Yup....and that's why SOME of us would like the "opposition" party to, you know, oppose

Posted by: FITP at December 13, 2013 08:19 AM (bAGYV)

312 LET IT BURN

Posted by: Valiant at December 13, 2013 08:21 AM (aFxlY)

313 Yup....and that's why SOME of us would like the "opposition" party to, you know, oppose

Posted by: FITP

Fine, I'm not saying people should cheer on this Ryan budget, I think it was a mistake, but what I'm sick of hearing is the moby meme of "no use voting for Republicans, they're no different than Democrats when they're in charge" when the facts don't bear that out. 

The real difference comes when you win elections, it's not going to come from parliamentary tricks like shutting down the government for a few weeks, when government spending didn't actually decrease  single penny, and Obama and the Democrats were thrown a life preserver.


Posted by: McAdams at December 13, 2013 08:34 AM (2TMCu)

314 103 ...if anything a step backwards in giving the Senate a 50-vote 'deal' on taxes.

My understanding is that bills with DNRFs (deficit-neutral reserve funds) still require a 60-vote threshold and a sequester replacement bill would be subject to three points of order under the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974. Also, a tax increase requires the approval of both chambers.

“Senators are proposing hundreds of 'deficit-neutral reserve funds.' What gives?”- http://wapo.st/1hRm9Lp: "'Reserve fund' refers to any provision establishing procedures to revise spending or revenue levels, or both, if certain legislation is enacted or some other condition is met."

“Informed Budgeteer”-http://tinyurl.com/km5y6ff: “In effect, DNRFs have become the latest incarnation of Sense of the Senate (SoS) amendments -- non-binding, throwaway, hand-waving provisions.”

CRS: “Points of Order in the Congressional Budget Process”-  http://bit.ly/1bD2Hgj: Section 314(f), Section 312(b), and Section 306

Posted by: M80B at December 13, 2013 08:45 AM (YjDyJ)

315 I'm done. I've voted since 1972. I'll be on the golf course. Screw'em all.

Posted by: MCPO Airdale at December 13, 2013 09:07 AM (6OY8A)

316

The real difference comes when you win elections

 

Oh yeah?

 

Got any evidence of that?

 

Didn't think so.

Posted by: FITP at December 13, 2013 09:11 AM (bAGYV)

317 You know the GOP is near rock bottom when the NY Times starts writing puff pieces for them.

Posted by: Dirty Old Man at December 13, 2013 09:14 AM (Yv5v6)

318 They have a showstorm in Cairo. Fukkin global warmin.

Posted by: maddogg at December 13, 2013 09:48 AM (xWW96)

319 John Boehner is Bob Michel's illegitimate son.

Posted by: Steve in Greensboro at December 13, 2013 09:50 AM (icBMk)

320 If the dems want a shutdown so bad because it would distract from obamacide, why did they make a deal to avoid it?

Posted by: Chico Esquela at December 13, 2013 11:13 AM (PuX55)

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