Ace of Spades HQ

July 28, 2013

Gun Thread - World War 1 +99 Years
— Pixy Misa

Yes Virginia, There Is A Shotgun Claus

Armed Citizen Project is providing a free shotgun to residents of a small town outside of Houston.

Â“We give brand new pump action shotguns, 12 gauge or 20 gauge,Â” explains founder of the Armed Citizen Project Kyle Coplen. In fact, Coplen is offering free shotguns to every homeowner in the Oak Forest neighborhood in Northwest Houston. Â“The area weÂ’re doing has about 400 homes in it. There was 107 home invasions last year,Â” explains Coplen.
Coplen came up with the Armed Citizen Project in January after he was disgusted by one of those break-ins, when World War Two veteran Elbert Wood had his house broken into.

Gun Of The Week

In Case You Missed Andy's Interview With Andrew Branca

You can read it here. Be sure to check out the comments sections. Andrew was kind enough to engage the commenters and answer some of their questions. Marksmanship Of The Week Award

Hero of the Day - FL: Men carrying fake gun shot by real one in robbery attempt - http://t.co/LM7WEQgpzM #NRA #ArmedCitizen (via @tb_times)
— Cam and Company (@CamAndCompany) July 24, 2013

First 3-D Printed Rifle Tested

The barrel and receiver split after firing the first round.

First posted several days ago, the video shows a .22-caliber rifle, dubbed the Grizzly, which its uploaders claim was made using a Stratasys Dimension 1200es 3D printer. The Stratasys is a pro machine that runs somewhere in the market of $8,000 for a second-hand model, so this is in no way something a typical person could go cooking up at a whim.

Gun Of The Week Answer

That is the weighty Lee Enfield No.4. Coming in at 8.8 pounds unloaded, it was one of the heaviest bolt action rifles used in the Second World War. It held ten rounds, in two columns, fed into the detachable box magazine with a stripper clip. I used to own one and it is the only gun I ever regret selling. It fired the devastating British .303 round. What's that? 303 you say?

Tips

I'm just filling in again. Feel free to hit me up on twitter.

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Celebrate America's firearms heritage: participate in Project Appleseed.

Posted by: Pixy Misa at 05:55 AM | Comments (123)
Post contains 437 words, total size 5 kb.

1 Uhhhh....I don't see no Enfield.

Posted by: BignJames at July 28, 2013 06:00 AM (20Mmk)

2 Now I do.

Posted by: BignJames at July 28, 2013 06:00 AM (20Mmk)

3 Three oh three I release thee Fly to my foe To the mark be

Posted by: Beto at July 28, 2013 06:01 AM (MhA4j)

4 Bang!

Posted by: ALH at July 28, 2013 06:07 AM (a2Bpc)

5 Carrying fake guns to a robbery? Did they just watch "Snatch"?

Posted by: BignJames at July 28, 2013 06:08 AM (20Mmk)

6 Wonder if the two tits with the guns that said REPLICA on the barrel got a taste of one that said DESERT EAGLE POINT 5-0 on the barrel. Heh.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 28, 2013 06:10 AM (+98Gb)

7 5 Carrying fake guns to a robbery? Did they just watch "Snatch"? Posted by: BignJames at July 28, 2013 10:08 AM (20Mmk) Wanted to raise some pulses, they did!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 28, 2013 06:10 AM (+98Gb)

8 I've got a Lee Enfield, and it is a great rifle to fire. All that weight makes the recoil almost unnoticeable.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 28, 2013 06:11 AM (gqgiP)

9 Any bets on how long before PayPal (bastards) shuts down the Armed Citizen Project's account?

Posted by: BornLib at July 28, 2013 06:12 AM (zpNwC)

10 @1 I see it. I imagine your browser configuration is preventing you from seeing it.

Posted by: Ben at July 28, 2013 06:14 AM (xTHBC)

11 At least they didn't try to hold up a gun store with a baseball bat.

Posted by: Some dumbass in Oregon at July 28, 2013 06:16 AM (Aif/5)

12 After 30 days of waiting, picked up my Glock 19 Gen 4 "early" when my FFL decided to let it go against Maryland State Police's requests, but following the law. Went shooting yesterday with siblings/wife. No problems at all, except my crappy aim. I'll get better with time. It was a blast to shoot!

Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at July 28, 2013 06:16 AM (X4HxX)

13 Went to the range yesterday to try out the new trigger in the AR (ALG Defense ACT). And forgot my magazines. Argh. Still, got some pistol work in, which is always good

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at July 28, 2013 06:19 AM (MBqvE)

14 I re-barreled an Enfield for a friend in 1982. It was a bitch. At the time I worked for a company that made .30 mil-spec barrels so I took a scrap barrel with a 10 twist and cut it down. There were no reamers available so I brazed a passable cutter together. I had to machine the headspace gauges too. I was very, very impressed with the .303 round. Cannon comes to mind but the weight softens up the recoil.

Posted by: Beto at July 28, 2013 06:20 AM (MhA4j)

15 Our friend the No4mk1....of course you Typo'd Veldt in the bit from Breaker Morant but who's to quibble?

The 3d Engineering bit is inelegant I do sometimes wonder if it'd be more productive to have a YMCA machining program instead....?

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 06:20 AM (LRFds)

16 Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at July 28, 2013 10:16 AM (X4HxX)

Were the state police asking that the FFL hold the pistol past the mandated time?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 28, 2013 06:20 AM (gqgiP)

17 I liked the sight for the Lee Enfield. It was fun to play around with.

Posted by: Ben at July 28, 2013 06:21 AM (xTHBC)

18 HoboJerky, get yourself a shooting instructor, paid if necessary. It doesn't matter how much you practice if you are practicing the wrong things.

Posted by: BornLib at July 28, 2013 06:22 AM (zpNwC)

19 Camp Perry report: the smallbore phase, despite a US victory in the every-eight-year Pershing match, had a rather subdued mood, since they've been evicted for the next two years, and, if you hear how the organizers say it, may never be back. Bristol Indiana has 100 classy old firing points; there are often over 300 shooters, you do the math. A little fraternal unease at the competitors' meeting. In the competition department, NRA is not the monolithic juggernaut the press makes it out to be in lobbying. And, shooters are a herd of cats, too.

The Marksmanship Unit's estimable McPhail won the aggregate, chased closely by LAR/and/R's hippie Matt Chezem (who dropped zero on Wind Day, and has moved to AKRON OHIO). Junior Katie Bridges was absolutely on fire -- sixth overall, on the Pershing, Dewar and Randle teams, and she'll be at TCU next season. AMU (full-time) beat USAF ("club sport") -- on X's only!

Best moment, in the "it had to happen someday" category: a former competitor and longtime scoring-office official had his ashes fired out of the howitzer at colors. Oh yeah. What are they gonna do, kick us out?

Posted by: comatus at July 28, 2013 06:26 AM (JNUY4)

20 Been looking into joining the IPDA and going to some matches. Anyone here a member, and are the matches well run?

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at July 28, 2013 06:27 AM (hl24d)

21 Good to see that someone tried 3D printed Rifling.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 28, 2013 06:28 AM (e+pdj)

22 Lee Enfield. My brother used to have one of those. Mighty fine rifle gun there Sargent. Be sure to wet your sights before you do some shootin' (except that was the American version, the 03-A3).

Posted by: Vic at July 28, 2013 06:28 AM (lZvxr)

23 14 Beto,

There are some neat peculiarities with the .303 WRT engineering. Essentially you had a Sweet Spot just below 30-06 in pressure that lost a smaller % of performance due to bullet design than would be expected. The Mk VII round was argued as violating the Geneva Convention because of its tail heavy yawing design's wound channel effects.

The Lee-Enfield's older cousin the Lee-Metford was a "more classic" looking rifle.

http://tinyurl.com/l2pnkjq

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 06:29 AM (LRFds)

24 The best documentary I've seen on the subject: The First World War (2003) http://goo.gl/silz6 Great unseen footage and beautiful cinematography of what these battle sites look like today.

Posted by: Waldo at July 28, 2013 06:30 AM (tXGg/)

25 LOL, printed plastic gun.

Here, hold this.

Some dumb ass is going to get killed. THat was a pissant .22.

Posted by: Vic at July 28, 2013 06:30 AM (lZvxr)

26 Robbery with a fake gun, how about this from the news links:

Was this insanity, suicide attempt, or just plain dumb? OR man tries to rob a gun store using a baseball bat.

http://tinyurl.com/kxapqe9

Posted by: Vic at July 28, 2013 06:32 AM (lZvxr)

27 Some dumb ass is going to get killed. THat was a pissant .22.
Posted by: Vic at July 28, 2013 10:30 AM

Needs moar 3D-printed ammo and powder!

Posted by: MrScribbler at July 28, 2013 06:32 AM (/RIVS)

28 http://tinyurl.com/kxapqe9 Posted by: Vic Ha! I saw that yesterday. Definitely from the shallow end of the gene pool.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at July 28, 2013 06:33 AM (hl24d)

29 "...the American version, the 03-A3..."

Posted by: Vic at July 28, 2013 10:28 AM (lZvxr)

That was a war-time variant with some stamped, rather than machined parts. I think it was the last of the Springfields.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 28, 2013 06:34 AM (gqgiP)

30 25 Vic,

Indeed, I would not trust any inexpensive polymer to withstand "simple" blowback pressures period without severe material engineering data.

I am fighting the temptation to convert a No4Mk1 action to either .357 Magnum, 9mm, or .45 ACP and pay the stamp to have my gunsmith put in the integral silencer to make a DeLisle once I am done moving.

http://tinyurl.com/4d52ywb

DeLisle Commando

Video....

http://youtu.be/UV-PYKAlx3E

Just because you're varmint hunting is no reason to wake the neighbors...

(legal mostly in North Carolina)

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 06:40 AM (LRFds)

31 Picked up this ol' girl yesterday http://tinyurl.com/mhkuxa5 (Finally scratched that itch)

Posted by: RWC at July 28, 2013 06:42 AM (8FeS+)

32 >>>Needs moar 3D-printed ammo and powder!

The 3D printed plastic shotgun ammo is friggin' hokey too. Tumbles like you'd expect, with little regard for all the fancy-schmancy "design" features.

Posted by: Fritz at July 28, 2013 06:43 AM (bWoh5)

33 @25

Vic, all things have to start somewhere. I'm guessing the majority of the first rifle barrels ever made blew up or cracks.

It'll take a couple of years, but I imagine we'll have working printable rifles soon enough.

Posted by: Ben at July 28, 2013 06:46 AM (xTHBC)

34 Antique car parts are printed in plastic as prototypes. When shown to fit, the design is printed in metal. something Jay Leno can afford...now.

Posted by: die trying at July 28, 2013 06:46 AM (w7J/R)

35 Morning morons. So I decided to catalog my guns. I tried using NM Gun inventory program, which is free. You get what you pay for. After putting in all my shit, it disappeared. I bought, not cheap, My GunDB. It works. It's simple and the owner replies if you have questions about the program. He even has a mobile app for apple, which is only $3.99. http://tinyurl.com/mft7qy4 OK, 68 weapons.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 28, 2013 06:47 AM (wR+pz)

36 OK, 68 weapons. Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 28, 2013 10:47 AM (wR+pz) Thanks. Seee you soon.

Posted by: NSA at July 28, 2013 06:49 AM (8FeS+)

37 "The area weÂ’re doing has about 400 homes in it. There was 107 home invasions last year"

Soon to be the safest neighborhood in Houston as word gets around.

Posted by: Formerly known as Skeptic at July 28, 2013 06:50 AM (5z6T9)

38 "After putting in all my shit, it disappeared." Doubtful; the NSA probably has it though.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at July 28, 2013 06:50 AM (hl24d)

39 30 (legal mostly in North Carolina)

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 10:40 AM (LRFds)

Hard to tell how good the suppressor was on a video like that. But I though ATF had arbitrarily place silencers on the class III list???

Posted by: Vic at July 28, 2013 06:51 AM (lZvxr)

40 36 NSA,

I know right?

It's not like ATF for 4473 is functionally the same thing already...

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 06:52 AM (LRFds)

41 An old story but still pertinent: Quitting Time for Watch Dealer : Violence: Shopkeeper says he has been driven out of business by media attention and threats after killing five robbers. April 26, 1992 | ASHLEY DUNN, TIMES STAFF WRITER Inside his tiny apartment--protected by a burglar alarm and bulletproof glass and with a 9-millimeter pistol in his waistband--Lance Thomas says he has found a measure of peace. In a little more than two years, the watch dealer killed five armed robbers and wounded another in a series of shootouts at his West Los Angeles store that made him a hero to some and a vigilante to others. http://goo.gl/ihsBfL Of course, it wasn't just the gangbangers that harassed him but also the so called "community leaders" and lapd. Same thing happened to a pharmacist who was being constantly robbed and defended himself.

Posted by: Waldo at July 28, 2013 06:53 AM (tXGg/)

42 33 @25

Vic, all things have to start somewhere. I'm guessing the majority of the first rifle barrels ever made blew up or cracks.

It'll take a couple of years, but I imagine we'll have working printable rifles soon enough.

Posted by: Ben at July 28, 2013 10:46 AM (xTHBC)

Yes, when you tie a computer to a milling tool and have it cut high grade steel and SS.

Posted by: Vic at July 28, 2013 06:53 AM (lZvxr)

43 Oh and the 68 count may be low. Son, out of town, says we have some more in garage that I forgot.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 28, 2013 06:56 AM (wR+pz)

44 The #4 Enfield would be a close tie with the Garand in regards to battle rifles. In the "first war" the MkIII would have it going. I remember some old fart writing that " the Germans use hunting rifles, the Americans use target rifles, and the British use a combat rifle." Very durable rifle. I might add that it is used in the boondocks of Canada by the Canadian Rangers. This is an organization like our State Guards , and provide guard, intel, for various missions the Canadians deemed best served by locals. They prefer this rifle for durability .

Posted by: Bill at July 28, 2013 06:57 AM (uvyrw)

45 Two interesting threads in the morning post. One was the fellow who shot the 14 year old in his front yard there was good debate on that. One person said you can't shoot somebody in your yard, initiate fight. Right. The other person argued you can go out in your yard you know, and with your gun. (I paraphrase badly no doubt.) And the kid allegedly did look like he was going for something. Probably could have been much better handled. Freeze kid! But an interesting case.

Posted by: mindful webworker, blathering moron at July 28, 2013 06:57 AM (Os+6p)

46 I have a .303 rifle that I recently inherited from my father. I remember firing it as a youngster, but it is missing some pieces of the firing mechanism now.

How would I go about restoring something like this?

Posted by: cw at July 28, 2013 06:58 AM (T9zRc)

47 I'd have to agree with Vic; engineering gun breeches and barrels using polymers has a long way to go before they're usable for anything meaningful. Magazines, stocks, bolts, breeches lowers and slides is another story.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at July 28, 2013 06:58 AM (hl24d)

48 I have a SMLEIII* built in 1913 and used in both world wars.

Posted by: Trainer's looking for a Militia at July 28, 2013 06:58 AM (LfjBa)

49 It's not like ATF for 4473 is functionally the same thing already... Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 10:52 AM (LRFds) They use those records for nothing but good things. .Gov wouldn't lie to us.

Posted by: RWC at July 28, 2013 06:58 AM (8FeS+)

50 The DeLisle Commando concept in a lever gun would be totes cool.

Posted by: tobias danger at July 28, 2013 06:58 AM (QupBk)

51 Yes, when you tie a computer to a milling tool and have it cut high grade steel and SS.

Posted by: Vic at July 28, 2013 10:53 AM (lZvxr)

Yup.

I don't think that everyone appreciates the stresses placed on barrels and chambers and locking lugs etc.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 28, 2013 07:00 AM (gqgiP)

52 The other from the morning comments. Ragtag bunch with ak-47s could not oppose the US military. That whole the line of debate. My thought was, not in direct confrontation, no. And a bunch of Polish dock workers couldn't bring down the Soviet Union. But there are... subterfuges, sabotage, and secret armies within armies, and a social and political war as well. (Has we turned Trudy at the NSA yet?) Just noodling academically. Of course. 3. What would you have done differently from what Bush did after 9 11 2001? How would you have had America respond? in hindsight? These things are related.

Posted by: mindful webworker, blathering moron at July 28, 2013 07:01 AM (Ryac4)

53 I don't think that everyone appreciates the stresses placed on barrels and chambers and locking lugs etc. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo Bah! Physics! Next you'll propose the world is round.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at July 28, 2013 07:02 AM (hl24d)

54 (Finally scratched that itch)

Posted by: RWC at July 28, 2013 10:42 AM (8FeS+)

--------------------

Just in time, too. I got my last Mosin last year for $99. Last month Cabela's had them for $169. Yesterday they were marked up to $199.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at July 28, 2013 07:04 AM (celt+)

55 25 LOL, printed plastic gun. Here, hold this. Some dumb ass is going to get killed. THat was a pissant .22. Posted by: Vic at July 28, 2013 10:30 AM (lZvxr) Lot of people were killed trying to fly before the Wright Brothers.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at July 28, 2013 07:05 AM (xhupI)

56 Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at July 28, 2013 11:04 AM (celt+) $108. But there was a table with each going for $179+tax.

Posted by: RWC at July 28, 2013 07:06 AM (8FeS+)

57 Finally a nice day in CLT. Not too hot and NO rain, yet.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 28, 2013 07:08 AM (wR+pz)

58 With a more powerful laser you can sinter powdered chro-moly steel. If someone is that determined gun drills are readily available as well as chambering reamers so a proper barrel is reasonably do-able. Action blueprints are all over the web and there are 40 taper CNC mills for around 15,000.

Posted by: Beto at July 28, 2013 07:08 AM (MhA4j)

59 39 Vic,

Silencers are on the III list you need a 200 buck stamp and then to engage in the gymnastics of interstate transport.

Law Enforcement gets really nervous about decibel reduction b/c they watched a lot of Horrywood basically.

Most people don't grasp that prior to the gun control shit of 1934 silencers were completely unregulated.

Hiram Maxim's son Hiram Maxim invented the silencer as patented in 1900 or so selling patents pending in 1902 patent being granted in 1909.

He also designed our friend the "Muffler for Internal Combustion Engines."

The Suppressor is as useful for recoil mitigation as "silence" given an exceptional silencer gets the decibels down to ~115 or so.

Anyway they have never been "a criminal's best friend" unless you count the REAL reason they were lobbied into FDR's follies which was poaching.

Legal in 39 of the 50 states there are still severe rules in place for interstate transport, and a violent felony conducted with the aid of a silencer carries a minimum 30 year sentence federally.(because politicians grasp that thanks to Hollywood most folk who would do them in would use one)

Your friend the .45 ACP is a popular round for suppressed work b/c it is already subsonic Vic...

The MP-5SD achieves its efficiency in decibel suppression in part by having multiple holes drilled in the barrel then having the baffles in the "notorious shroud"...

Probably my own personal favorite "wish list" weapon other than the DeLisle would be the M3OSS of "Attack Force Z" fame...

http://youtu.be/TAOKhLi8xj4

It'd be interesting to see newly manufactured WW2 Designs with modern Picatinny furniture put up against the 7500 dollar cadillacs of H+K in the UMP .45 for example.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the final product improved versions of the ww2 kit would hold up well in comparison.

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 07:08 AM (LRFds)

60 That Enfield #4 looks like mine. I'm guessing it's a post-war Fazakerley FTR.

Best bolt-action battle rifle by far. Ten round mag, handy length, fast bolt and a huge aperture rear sight for snap-shooting at short range that flips to a nifty micrometer set-up for precision work. Light years ahead of the Kar98k.

My local Cabela's has a pretty nice SMLE on the rack for a buck under $900. I'll be regretting not buying it very soon, I'm sure.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at July 28, 2013 07:09 AM (celt+)

61 51 CBD,

I do.

I damn near lost the fingers on my right hand when I had a cap and ball '51 Navy fratricide and suffer a critical failure in the brass frame's piston well.

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 07:10 AM (LRFds)

62 Your friend the .45 ACP is a popular round for suppressed work b/c it is already subsonic Vic... Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence *** Coupled with a wet suppressor it is quieter than a suppressed .22 by 30db

Posted by: Beto at July 28, 2013 07:12 AM (MhA4j)

63 "Your friend the .45 ACP is a popular round for suppressed work b/c it is already subsonic Vic..."

--------------------

Absolutely. No point slowing down a smaller cartridge like a 9mm or .357. Velocity is what makes them effective. You want to start with something big that's already slow.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at July 28, 2013 07:12 AM (celt+)

64 @59 Oil filter suppressor. http://tinyurl.com/bxanqcp

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 28, 2013 07:13 AM (wR+pz)

65 46 CW,

You can acquire Lee-Enfield parts fairly easily here:

http://tinyurl.com/lb6cuvp

I'd take the weapon to a gunsmith and have them check the headspacing if you do a complete bolt rebuild for example.

I am confident in my ability to rebuild the bolt and firing group for the Mosin Nagant and the Lee Enfield and Mausers but would blanche at doing the same for the K-31 or the MAS-36.

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 07:13 AM (LRFds)

66 "What would you have done differently from what Bush did after 9 11 2001? How would you have had America respond? in hindsight?" I would have brought the head of every security agency into my office, and told them that the facilities of the entire US government would be brought to bear on their performance, before packing them off to jail and revoking any further pay or pension they had. Followed that with a total embargo of Saudi petroleum, and an order to advance permits and licenses for domestic petroleum drilling and refining as a matter of national security. Followed by suspending every dollar of foreign aid to every country whose government had ties with AQ and any other Islamic terrorist organization. Followed by committing whatever resources and assets it took to hunt down each and every leader of AQ, in whatever country they were in.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at July 28, 2013 07:14 AM (hl24d)

67 63 Taro Tsujimoto,

The DeLisle really shines in that application...the first 3 shots tend to properly distribute the baffling agent whether steel wool or axle grease and if *any* silencer would get sub 115 it'd be that class of closed bolt weapon with subsonic ammo.

The OSS and SOE assets who specialized in such things were said to be able to engage in customer service at 145-175 yards.

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 07:16 AM (LRFds)

68 Kudos for the Appleseed shoutout! If you haven't been to one yet, I would like to personally invite you to come out and participate!

I'm an Appleseed Instructor in the Dallas, TX area, and we would love to see you at one of our upcoming events!

Posted by: Crystal at July 28, 2013 07:16 AM (toeEC)

69 62 Beto,

Heh yup...I regretted not going into detail on wet v dry v drilled suppression as soon as I hit "post"...

the Mk-22 HushPuppy was an interesting '60s solution to the issue.

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 07:17 AM (LRFds)

70 I acquired a British rifle brigade sweetheart pin from WWI at an uction locally. I was able to identify it because my brother-in-law (fomrer marine) recognized the Enfield rifle, accurately depicted in silver.

That is my entire contribution to the gun thread. I will check back later on another thread.

Posted by: Miss Marple at July 28, 2013 07:19 AM (GoIUi)

71 "The DeLisle really shines in that application...the first 3 shots tend to properly distribute the baffling agent whether steel wool or axle grease and if *any* silencer would get sub 115 it'd be that class of closed bolt weapon with subsonic ammo."

------------------

I've read the loudest part of the DeLisle was working the bolt.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at July 28, 2013 07:19 AM (celt+)

72 Morning morons! Don't know about y'all, but I'm going to watch that Nikki Haley video at FNH again and have some "alone time" with a bottle of cocoa butter and aloe. See you all in 23 seconds.

Posted by: EC at July 28, 2013 07:21 AM (doBIb)

73 I'm told that in IL, if you "carry" using something like the Bulldog product that is like a fanny pack, the handgun unloaded and mag separate, but in same product, and you are legal otherwise, you're good to go. Usual exceptions: city of Chicago, etc. Amirite? Or rather, was the guy that told me this right?

Posted by: The littl shyning man at July 28, 2013 07:24 AM (ndp2I)

74 71 Taro Tsujimoto,

Yup once the baffling medium is properly distributed it is a true tactical weapon.

The Muzzle Flash is absorbed by the Integral Shroud to a degree of 95% and the DB allegedly was in the region of 70db.

http://tinyurl.com/4ahnm8

Chart of common db ratings of sound...

the average "light sleeper" is able to discern noise to waken at ~25-45 db.

Hollywood makes them both louder and quieter than is usually the case in field service, but the purpose of the mechanism from a MOUT perspective is as an aid to triangulation prevention and echo amelioration.

If veterans ever decided to engage in tactical ops against say an emboldened MS-13 they'd have a utility.

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 07:25 AM (LRFds)

75 Yo RINOs On the great Mr. Branca's advice at the end of the thread, he states that it is wise to carry non lethal in addition to your c/c I understand why he gives this advice but in a way that would up the situation too The example given was a drunk slapping his woman at a restaurant/bar If a dude is so out of control or drunk her beat on his woman in public, pepper spray will make him go after you or yours in a big way....also if its not a well placed shot he's not going to be incapacitated just enraged

Posted by: Navycopjoe bids aloha to Flossie at July 28, 2013 07:26 AM (wNsNP)

76 Just slightly off-t: picked up a new blade this weekend that I ordered from Amazon- http://tinyurl.com/mnnncs5 Ever since seeing The Book Of Eli, I've thought that the blade he uses in it was a PRIME setup. Not too long, just right heft, and very versatile. This blade, being Cold Steel, should sharpen very well. It feels 'right' and has a great balance to it.

Posted by: Mr Wolf at July 28, 2013 07:26 AM (UIAT6)

77 75 NCJ,

You know my feelings on the matter NCJ, I am a full spectrum response matrix kind of guy.

When younger and more hotheaded I underestimated the utility of "your voice and talking" too often and when told by DPD I should probably not be a cop I suspect that was why.

Hope you survive Joey Plugz' visit.

Sven

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 07:28 AM (LRFds)

78 Shot my new Baby Glock Subcompact 9 mm Friday. Sweet. The guy next to me was smoking the place up so bad (bag O' ammo) that I thought I was going to have to use a respirator. But boy could the SOB shoot. He kept putting rounds the same holes in the chest and then through the head, constantly for an hour. Now I need to find ammo .Picked up some locally from a guy I found on Armslist but need many more rounds.

Posted by: Guido - proud father of a new Baby Glock26' at July 28, 2013 07:29 AM (A96MH)

79 Guido, 30 cents per round sound ok to you?

Posted by: EC at July 28, 2013 07:30 AM (doBIb)

80 52 The United States military as is now is simply not big enough to pacify the entire country the way it did so in Iraq, and I question its logistics long term abilities if it tried. Starting with recruitment, and moving from there. This assumes the entire military supports the establishment. And that depends on how you enter the fray. There are other variables. Ideally, you would want enough of a main force to keep the other side from dispersing to control territory, then have your light forces make hay with logistical tails. Other things come into play--airpower, sea power, nukes, etc. But Progressives simply thinking Lord Biden/Clinton/whomever snapping their fingers and the troop will automatically click their heels are fooling themselves. It would be a tad more complicated. As a starter, I'm going to point out that trying to functionally outlaw Christianity is going to be a helluva motivator for some. Progressives have gambled their entire enterprise on swinging five percent of voters. The steps they have done to do so may make it impossible for them to peacefully rule the "conquered".

Posted by: T. at July 28, 2013 07:31 AM (Xf3GY)

81 Yes EC sure does.

Posted by: Guido - proud father of a new Baby Glock26' at July 28, 2013 07:31 AM (A96MH)

82 Posted by: Mr Wolf ***** Get a book titled "The Fighting Kukri" excellent

Posted by: Beto at July 28, 2013 07:32 AM (MhA4j)

83 Guido, This company makes reloaded ammo. It's good stuff, I and some other morons have ordered from them before. Give them a try. http://tinyurl.com/muj5ldq

Posted by: EC at July 28, 2013 07:33 AM (doBIb)

84 76 Mr. Wolf....

My dear Mr Wolf is you ever want a new hilt for your knife might I suggest...

http://tinyurl.com/kro8ft5

Also never forget you may want angle on the hilt like a Kukri so you can do things like this...

http://tinyurl.com/kt6t4d3

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 07:33 AM (LRFds)

85 80 yep I mean I've seen it soooo many times unfortunately and just hope at the end the chick doesn't go back but most if the time they do I can honestly say in my almost 14 yrs of marriage I've never once thought of pimp slapping my wife Shake the fuck out of her yes, but slap no

Posted by: Navycopjoe bids aloha to Flossie at July 28, 2013 07:35 AM (9TME+)

86 83 Guido,

This company makes reloaded ammo. It's good stuff, I and some other morons have ordered from them before. Give them a try.

http://tinyurl.com/muj5ldq

Posted by: EC at July 28, 2013 11:33 AM (doBIb) Perfect EC, thanks much. I was worried there that I'd have to kill someone to get that .30 deal. You know 'rons. "I'll do a favor for you now and later you'll do one for me". I mean I would have considered it.

Posted by: Guido - proud father of a new Baby Glock26' at July 28, 2013 07:36 AM (A96MH)

87 80 T,

I'm done discussing it.

The nation is built for insurgency, but the people are in the end the weapon not the tools the people use.

It is becoming apparent to me that there are too many Honey Boo Boo fans and not enough Francis Marion ones.

I used to think Clinton was the event horizon for bad things happening in the people, but Ogabe has proven I was in error analytically.

The American people as currently rendered would try to turn up the TV if they were suffering the liquidation of the Kulak phase of the Soviet New Economic Era.

In short fuck 'em.

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 07:37 AM (LRFds)

88 From Andy's interview: ...As far as tips go, I guess it would be just that having a good instructor can make a world of difference, especially for a new shooter so they don't ever even develop bad habits... When I was on my college Olympic style shooting team (.22 cal @ 50'), once I started getting good, all of a sudden my groups started going towards the 2 o'clock position. My coach told me I was in too big of a hurry checking my shots through the spotting scope, pulling my shots up and to the right. After taking his advice and forcing myself to wait a full second before looking my groups returned to the bull. So Andy's advice here is dead on.

Posted by: Ed Anger at July 28, 2013 07:37 AM (tOkJB)

89 Apropos of nothing, my Yugo-SKS has an off valve for the gas tube for use with a grenade launcher. Does there exist a similar thing for the AR platform? Where you would fire single and then have to work the charging handle to load the next round.

Posted by: tobias danger at July 28, 2013 07:37 AM (QupBk)

90 I can honestly say in my almost 14 yrs of marriage I've never once thought of pimp slapping my wife Shake the fuck out of her yes, but slap no NCJ's wife: "Honey, I accidently smashed your favourite guitar..."

Posted by: EC at July 28, 2013 07:38 AM (doBIb)

91 Conversely, if I was a Cubs fan, I'd insist my wife slap the shit out of me at least once per season.

Posted by: Fritz at July 28, 2013 07:38 AM (bWoh5)

92 88 Ed Anger,

The US Military prefers non-trained shooters to trained ones for initial entry training.

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 07:39 AM (LRFds)

93 To go further--I truly think folks should just commit themselves now to having to use arms to secure their rights to liberty, if they wish for any kind of liberty outside what Progressives intend to grant. This does not mean arms will have to be resorted to--just that you need to resolve to so do if it becomes necessary. The Progressives aren't going to back down. I've satisfied myself they just intend to plunge ahead and hope the other side just accepts defeat even when it has won on an individual issue. I'm perfectly happy for a political solution to this crisis of the Republic, and the people could deliver such. But honestly, given the GOP, I expect slow inexplorable drift instead. Then the question becomes, do you just accept it, or do other?

Posted by: T. at July 28, 2013 07:39 AM (Xf3GY)

94 Three -D printing of gun parts will continue to fail if this is a matter of simple polymers. Polymers heavily reinforced with carbon nanotubes might (might!) be strong enough to tolerate the chamber pressure, etc., but that would make the 3D printing pretty expensive. I still think it would be best to make lost wax molds from 3D priniting and cast metal/ steel parts from that. You can make polymers harder and stronger than steel, but they become hideously expensive per pound. Their only advantage is weight.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes more nonsense...... at July 28, 2013 07:39 AM (9bMee)

95 In short fuck 'em. Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 11:37 AM Best course of action is to get away from the chaff and hunker down. Maneuver after the dust settles.

Posted by: Beto at July 28, 2013 07:40 AM (MhA4j)

96 80 Nation of three million. Continental Army had a couple of thousand any given year. Just the way these things go sometimes.

Posted by: T. at July 28, 2013 07:40 AM (Xf3GY)

97 @83 Thanks, just order a 1000 rounds.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 28, 2013 07:43 AM (wR+pz)

98 89 Tobias Danger,

Eugene Stoner's original gas system designs did in fact have control furniture in the gas block but it was considered just another thing to fuck up and was removed for production runs.

A serious user of the system wanting to maximize suppression would get an adjustable gas block, and a gas buster charging handle system while choosing the tightest fitting upper/lower reciever combo they could find preferably milled.

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 07:43 AM (LRFds)

99 95 And timing is always a good thing to ponder. It is not necessary that liberty not take a hit, just that it in the end be preserved. And thus, events will drive things as much as one drives events. The important thing is to resolve that liberty *will* be preserved.

Posted by: T. at July 28, 2013 07:44 AM (Xf3GY)

100

There is a silencer shop that advertises on the radio here in lib Austin.

They ain't cheap.

http://www.silencershop.com/

Posted by: Invictus at July 28, 2013 07:44 AM (OQpzc)

101 Re my 99 "Flexibility is the key to airpower."

Posted by: T. at July 28, 2013 07:44 AM (Xf3GY)

102 A serious user of the system wanting to maximize suppression would get an adjustable gas block, and a gas buster charging handle system while choosing the tightest fitting upper/lower reciever combo they could find preferably milled. Doesn't Noveske make something like this? A controllable gas block for suppressed work?

Posted by: EC at July 28, 2013 07:46 AM (doBIb)

103 On my Ruger LCR 38, had black on black sights that were hard to use for me. On front sight I put cleaned with alcohol, couple coats white nail polish, then a glow in dark hobby paint 'Glo-something ($3) (2-3coats and finished with 'hard as Nails clear nail polish (2 coats). been holstered and drawn for a month now and has not worn down, + does glow in dark if charged with flashlight. Much improved sight all around.

Posted by: Guido - proud father of a new Baby Glock26' at July 28, 2013 07:48 AM (A96MH)

104 102 EC,

Yup. http://tinyurl.com/m59z954

Dear NSA/BATF as always I am not a user currently of any baffling equipment and as always I advise that everyone follow every law to the letter.

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 07:48 AM (LRFds)

105 Get a book titled "The Fighting Kukri"
excellent
www.youtube.com/watch?v=apfaDqcf2FA

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at July 28, 2013 07:52 AM (BQ10H)

106 Yup. http://tinyurl.com/m59z954 Thanks, EC and Sven. Exactly what I was wondering about.

Posted by: tobias danger at July 28, 2013 07:57 AM (QupBk)

107 'Rick Taylor - Worlds Greatest Tactical Instructor' http://tinyurl.com/krskohx

Posted by: RWC at July 28, 2013 08:04 AM (8FeS+)

108

'Breaker Morant' one of the best movies EVAH!

There once was a man from Australia

Who painted his rear like a Dalia

The color was fine

Likewise the design

But the aroma that was the failure

Posted by: bobbymike at July 28, 2013 08:09 AM (YFPAQ)

109 I'm back after a 1 hour phone call. I thought the class III on silencers were a relatively new thing. I didn't now that went all the way back to the original gun grabbing act.

As for Whorrywood and silencers I get a kick out of them. The gun make s small psssttt noise that is barely audible and half the time they have the silencer on a damn revolver.

You would think they would have at least one person around who knew that was all bullshit.

Posted by: Vic at July 28, 2013 08:15 AM (lZvxr)

110 Going to club at 2:00. Governor is a member and he comes to men's bar on Sunday to eat free fried chicken and shoot the shit. I think he's in town, legislature adjourned Friday. Kind of fun, but he is pretty close to the vest about shit.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 28, 2013 08:24 AM (wR+pz)

111 Followed by committing whatever resources and assets it took to hunt down each and every leader of AQ, in whatever country they were in. Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at July 28, 2013 11:14 AM __________ Upon reflection, I thought my tacked-on little question was inappropriately O/T, but I appreciate your thoughts, COJ. Pretty much always.

Posted by: mindful webworker, blathering moron at July 28, 2013 08:24 AM (zEeUf)

112 My father-in-law left my wife an Endfield rifle of that period that shoots .303. I don't recall if its a No. 4 or not.

Posted by: zsasz at July 28, 2013 08:37 AM (MMC8r)

113 I'll get a shooting instructor later if I need it. I have plenty of friends and resources to teach me already.

Posted by: HoboJerky at July 28, 2013 08:43 AM (gcM8q)

114 I'm not even close to a plateau in shooting yet. Getting close groups of any location is my first job.

Posted by: HoboJerky at July 28, 2013 08:47 AM (lVyhK)

115 As for Whorrywood and silencers I get a kick out of them. The gun make s small psssttt noise that is barely audible and half the time they have the silencer on a damn revolver. Posted by: Vic at July 28, 2013 12:15 PM (lZvxr) Not that Hollywood knows it but there are a couple of suppressed revolvers floating around.

Posted by: RWC at July 28, 2013 09:31 AM (8FeS+)

116 115 RWC,

the main one would be the '95 Nagant which has a sealed gas cylinder built into the housing.

NKVD used silenced versions for hits and as a professional courtesy to the executioners at Lubyanka.

http://tinyurl.com/y6ht8x2

Major General Blokhin's butchers were quite busy under "Uncle Joe"...

Gentleman above was known to be the personal triggerman on all the Old Bolsheviks condemned in the show trials and two of his three bosses.

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 09:49 AM (LRFds)

117 the main one would be the '95 Nagant which has a sealed gas cylinder built into the housing. Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 01:49 PM (LRFds) I could be wrong, but I believe they used special rounds as well.

Posted by: RWC at July 28, 2013 10:12 AM (8FeS+)

118 Yep. "The projectile is seated below the mouth of the cartridge, with the cartridge crimp sitting just above the bullet. When fired, the crimp expands into the forcing cone, completing the gas seal and ostensibly increasing muzzle velocity by approximately 75 ft/s."

Posted by: RWC at July 28, 2013 10:14 AM (8FeS+)

119 The device that made the 1895 Nagant pistol an effective weapon is the "Bramit Device": http://securityarms.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1802 Several more links available.

Posted by: Arbalest at July 28, 2013 10:26 AM (FlRtG)

120 Wow, so weird to see Oak Forest be mentioned on national news... A minor correction to the summary of the article: Oak Forest is not a small town outside of Houston, it is a small neighborhood well within Houston. It's not really an "inner-city" neighborhood, but Houston isn't really known for its density in any case. It's on the north side of Houston, and it's neighbored on the east and west by similar neighborhoods. North of Oak Forest is Acres Homes which is a poorer and more crime-ridden area which is probably where a lot of the criminal element is coming from. Oak Forest is an older neighborhood where 90% of the homes date from the 50's, many of which have been owned by families for 30+ years. It's just starting to gentrify (every so often you'll see some modern monstrosity sitting on a row of 50's ranch style homes).

Posted by: HoustonHomeTown at July 28, 2013 11:26 AM (PV6yH)

121 The gun give-away program sounds like it's smartly done. Not just... here's a free shot-gun... but a training course (which I hope includes actually shooting a shot-gun) and going to get your back ground check. (I don't mind the idea of back ground checks when they just *check*, get an OK, and never report if you walked out with a shot-gun or not, and since that's Texas I doubt they do more than New Mexico does.) Also, I never understood why everyone seemed to say "12 gauge" all the time. I'd rather have a 20.

Posted by: Synova at July 28, 2013 12:27 PM (7/PU+)

122 121 Synova,

For home defense a 20ga makes sense every time. In a tactical environment outside urban areas 12ga makes more sense.

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 28, 2013 01:56 PM (LRFds)

123 @ 117 and 119 RWC, Yep I have a few of those Nagant pistols. The funniest little cartridge you ever did see, with the projectile hiding down in the cartridge peeping put like a frightened turtle. Surplus ammo can be had for not too dear. However the trigger pull on that thing , (especially in double action mode) is more than 20 pounds. Apparently it takes a lot to make the cylinder move forward. I still like it though. It is an interesting sidearm with plenty of history. For anyone that wants one they can be had from most of the buyer re-sellers for 100-130 bucks depending upon condition and markings. For an old gun, they are in surprisingly good shape. Just to add to to the 'oddball" factor, they are 7 shooters!

Its a C&R gun.

Posted by: Sgt._Eric_Holder_Schultz at July 28, 2013 04:50 PM (Sedwk)

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