Ace of Spades HQ

October 13, 2013

Gun Thread (10-13-2013)
— andy

Salute To The Big Guns

Happy 238th Birthday, US Navy.

USS_California_(BB-44)_after_turrets.jpg

"Internet Loophole" FTW!

The left goes on and on about buying guns over the Internet, but it's mostly BS (shocking, I know). To legally purchase a firearm from an out-of-state seller, that seller has to ship the gun to a federally-licensed firearms dealer (FFL) in your state to complete the transaction. With one single exception, that is.

If you were just taking a wild guess, what entity would you think would be outside this requirement?

If you said "the Federal Government", go to the head of the line. (Or a federally-chartered corporation, anyway ... it's the Corporation for Public Broadcasting of Guns)

The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is a national organization dedicated to training and educating U. S. citizens in responsible uses of firearms and airguns through gun safety training, marksmanship training and competitions. The CMP is a federally chartered 501(c)(3) corporation that places its highest priority on serving youth through gun safety and marksmanship activities that encourage personal growth and build life skills. Links on this page will lead you to more detailed information about the CMP and its programs.
Statutory mission. The federal law enacted in 1996 (Title 36 U. S. Code, 40701-40733) that created the Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and Firearms Safety, Inc. (CPRPFS, the formal legal name of the CMP) mandates these key Â“functions for the corporation:
(1) To instruct citizens of the United States in marksmanship;
(2) To promote practice and safety in the use of firearms;
(3) To conduct competitions in the use of firearms and to award trophies, prizes, badges, and other insignia to competitors.
The law specifically states: In carrying out the Civilian Marksmanship Program, the corporation shall give priority to activities that benefit firearms safety, training, and competition for youth and that reach as many youth participants as possible.

One way they pursue this mission is by selling surplus firearms to US consumers. Earlier this week, a FedEx truck pulled up at my house with one ... an M1 Garand with a receiver made in the late 50s (H&R) and with a brand new barrel and stock affixed by CMP's armorers. No FFL required, although they do a NICS check and require membership in an affiliated club.

I'll be heading to the range today to run some rounds through it.

Gun Of The Week

(answer below)
Marksmanship Award

Hero of the Day - Kentucky: Business owner shoots robbery suspect in Clay County - http://t.co/iYhhBjxhWm #NRA #ArmedCitizen (via @wkyt)
— Cam and Company (@CamAndCompany) October 9, 2013

Gun Of The Week - Answer

That's the Ruger Standard (Although I'll take Mk I, Mk II, or Mk III too). It's the gun that got Sturm, Ruger & Co. started in 1949 and has been in continuous production ever since. I have one, and it's a pleasure to shoot.

Boycott Spurred in Texas Restores Gun Deals to Groupon

On the same day in January that Groupon Inc., the online coupon company, abruptly terminated firearm-related deals, Michael Cargill called his Groupon sales representative.
Â“YouÂ’re an awesome sales rep. But I donÂ’t like this, and IÂ’m going to do something about it. You guys just screwed with the wrong person,Â” Cargill, an Austin-based concealed handgun license instructor and gun shop owner, recalls telling Groupon.

Read the whole thing; the author is an 'ette.

Range Time

AoSHQ Podcast veterans Charles C.W. Cooke and Cam Edwards visit the NRA range:

Police Officers Three Times More Likely to Murder Than Concealed Carry Permit Holders

So of course we should restrict gun ownership to the police.

There are no complete and definitive sources of data that will give us an accurate ratio of unjustified homicides committed by police compared to CCW holders. The numbers are very small and no one keeps a national record of them.
However, the numbers found for domestic homicide cases, which are some of the easiest solved and most highly publicised cases, offer strong evidence that CCW permit holders are less likely to commit unjustified homicide than police officers, as little as one third as much.

h/t CBD

21 Vintage Gun Ads That Will Make You Wince

That's HuffPo's headline and was left intact for illustrative purposes. The only reason I'd wince is because I don't have a truckload of the products being advertised still new-in-the-box.

Somewhat related - I was asking my daughter this week whether her school had asked any questions about whether there were any guns in her house and she said, in all seriousness, "wait ... there are people who don't have guns in the house? What do they do if someone breaks in?"

My work here is done.

From the Mailbag

Gov. Brown bans lead ammo in hunting, vetoes other gun control bills

Bearing Arms names longtime second amendment writer and activist Bob Owens as new editor

Using the .22 for self-defense

Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

The owner's manual for your concealed carry permit: The Law of Self Defense

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Celebrate America's firearms heritage: participate in Project Appleseed.

Posted by: andy at 05:43 AM | Comments (207)
Post contains 909 words, total size 8 kb.

1 Geez, no comments? Thanks for starting this- the "dead pet" post was getting too depressing. Kind regards to all.

Posted by: Flyover Country at October 13, 2013 05:46 AM (ULH4o)

2 Out, dammed sock....

Posted by: backhoe at October 13, 2013 05:47 AM (ULH4o)

3 Good morning Horde! Crunchin through homework so I can go to the range today. I am envious of your purchase Andy!

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at October 13, 2013 05:49 AM (P/47D)

4 Andy I have one of those CMP Garands and it's my favorite gun.

Posted by: Freaked Out! at October 13, 2013 05:49 AM (q3Fwr)

5 I had one of those Rugers in .22. I gave it to my daughter and it has since disappeared. .

Posted by: Vic at October 13, 2013 05:51 AM (zZbNF)

6 Job. Well. Done. Andy. Glad your daughter asked you that question. There may be a small ,slice of hope for this nation.

Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 13, 2013 05:52 AM (HVff2)

7 Does the CMP still sell that surplus Turkish 30.06? I got a bunch of that a few years back and am still shooting it

Posted by: Freaked Out! at October 13, 2013 05:52 AM (q3Fwr)

8 Top photo, refitted Maryland class battleship since the birdcage masts are gone. And a Curtis SOC seaplane is in the picture. So about 1945.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 13, 2013 05:52 AM (xqlZc)

9 I'm glad I didn't contribute to Gomez.

Posted by: Frankly at October 13, 2013 05:53 AM (XkfxA)

10 It's my birthday..man, I feel old!!!!

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice USN (Ret) at October 13, 2013 05:54 AM (FHXMu)

11 OT - Livestream of the Vet march
http://tinyurl.com/mwgdxhw

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 13, 2013 05:55 AM (xqlZc)

12 Thanks for reminding me it's the 238th Birthday of the US Navy.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 13, 2013 05:56 AM (UbDLm)

13 Heh. Just looked and I have an unopened box of 30-06 in bandoliers under the couch. The kind with the sardine can opener. Dated 1970.

Posted by: Freaked Out! at October 13, 2013 05:56 AM (q3Fwr)

14 Gomez is FOS. Poll after poll shows that Americans do NOT support gun control. And even IF they did, it is not subject to a vote unless the Constitution is changed.

Posted by: Vic at October 13, 2013 05:56 AM (zZbNF)

15 "Bandoleers"

Posted by: Freaked Out! at October 13, 2013 05:57 AM (q3Fwr)

16 Anna, that pic is purportedly the Tennessee-class USS California.

Posted by: Andy at October 13, 2013 05:58 AM (0ZQCB)

17 That Ruger was initially test fired 56,000 times without cleaning and NVER JAMMED!!! Of all the 22.cal pistols , that The Browning and the Jetfire are the Big three of reliability and accuracy of out of the box guns..

Posted by: Jet Built Around Cannon at October 13, 2013 06:00 AM (70CRT)

The Ruger .22LR pistol is great: it has a combination of good "pointability," reliability and price-point that can't be beat. I have two - one with the 6" bull barrel and one with the 4-3/4" tapered barrel.

I'm also a big fan of Ruger revolvers. I have never felt the same attraction for their other semi-auto pistols.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop at October 13, 2013 06:01 AM (Ud9dC)

19 Just an observation form the Groupon story: Â“It seems strange that Groupon felt like this was something that they needed to do because of Newtown,Â” then changed its position, Woods said. Â“It seems like they might be trying to capitalize on what they perceive as people forgetting about those children dying in their classrooms.Â” Ya think?! I have no use for turds like that; companies (and presnits) making hay from the death of children. They should be publicly called out as the despicable people that they are.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at October 13, 2013 06:01 AM (P/47D)

20 Anna,

I think that is California or Tennessee. The Marylands had twin 16/45 turrets.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at October 13, 2013 06:01 AM (P/gm7)

21 If Gomez takes 5s to do a mag change, that's about 3s too slow.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 13, 2013 06:01 AM (l5zzX)

22 Stag Model 3, ordered 28 August, not yet received
Mrs VIA's 9mm waiting MD State Police paperwork processing, over thirty days.

2nd Amendment is struggling in the Free State.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice USN (Ret) at October 13, 2013 06:02 AM (FHXMu)

23 And yeah, I'm kind of disappointed that the gun of the week isn't the 14/50 naval gun.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at October 13, 2013 06:04 AM (P/gm7)

24 By the way as I said last month, I met with some service buds, in the upper offices.. In Site Y .. SORRY Bammy .. Under no circumstances are the Armed Forces Will Allow the Bammy Brown Shirts to disarm the civilians.. That was a big NO GO..

Posted by: Jet Built Around Cannon at October 13, 2013 06:05 AM (70CRT)

25 *peeks at photo info in link*

BB-44 USS California. One of two Tennessee class ships. I was almost right. Darn it!

7 Dec 1941 was not a good day for USS California. She had hatches open for inspection. Then some B5N Kates put torpedoes into her side. She sank very quickly to the bottom, luckily Pearl Harbor is shallow.

Not even right on the Curtiss product. What I get going from memory. The SOC Seagulls were kept in use even after the OS2U Kingfisher entered service. The one in the picture is a Curtiss SC Seahawk.

So about the only thing I might have right is the date of the photo, perhaps 1945. Or later.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 13, 2013 06:05 AM (xqlZc)

26 http://tinyurl.com/m3p5b2x Gabriel Gomez - RINO Why is this guy a Republican? He's a democrat - an old time democrat. When the dems went full fascist, the old dems decided they would become republicans because they were scared of the new fascist dems. If he were courageous, he would be fighting it out on the dem side, but that's too hard. Coward.

Posted by: Brendan at October 13, 2013 06:06 AM (8YVZT)

27 2nd Amendment is struggling in the Free State.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice USN (Ret) at October 13, 2013 10:02 AM (FHXMu)

I've been waiting since September 10th. Was told then that 14 to 16 weeks is the average.

Posted by: Retread at October 13, 2013 06:07 AM (Oz+LZ)

28 @ 18 , Did anyone tell u that the people up North consider Happiness Crushed Buckeye Nuts?

Posted by: Jet Built Around Cannon at October 13, 2013 06:08 AM (70CRT)

29 BB-44 USS California. One of two Tennessee class ships. I was almost right. Darn it! 7 Dec 1941 was not a good day for USS California. She had hatches open for inspection. Then some B5N Kates put torpedoes into her side. She sank very quickly to the bottom, luckily Pearl Harbor is shallow. Not even right on the Curtiss product. What I get going from memory. The SOC Seagulls were kept in use even after the OS2U Kingfisher entered service. The one in the picture is a Curtiss SC Seahawk. So about the only thing I might have right is the date of the photo, perhaps 1945. Or later. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 13, 2013 10:05 AM (xqlZc) Shit your good. I gotta give you your due. I mean of course if they had showed the Dental Clinic on board I would have nailed it ( nah, just kidding).

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 13, 2013 06:09 AM (UbDLm)

30 So Gomez, a former SEAL, can't make the distinction between a real select-fire assault weapon and the semi-autos we buy? But he can teach me to change a "high capacity magazine clip?" What a pretentious douche.

Posted by: nraendowment at October 13, 2013 06:12 AM (wTPGq)

31 I don't buy Gomez's logic. The number of rounds a gun carries in its magazine, or its rate of fire has ZERO to do with gun safety. Either you know how to safely load/unload and carry the weapon with it loaded, or you don't. The rest is marksmanship. If marksmanship = gun safety, there's a lot of unsafe LEOs in Boston and NY City (just to name a few recent examples).

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at October 13, 2013 06:12 AM (P/47D)

32 25>> Damn AP, you never cease to amaze...

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at October 13, 2013 06:14 AM (P/47D)

33 Actually Nevergiveup, I was veering off into major wrongnesss. I almost wrote at first the seaplane was a Kingfisher because that is the plane I expected to be there. So I took a second look and noticed the wing float pylon and engine nacelle were wrong which fired off the synapse of 'hey Curtiss produced a replacement this must be it' and then I got the wrong Curtiss product, the biplane SOC and not the SC. And meanwhile though I knew the BB was not a North Carolina or Iowa class, twin rear turrets give that away, still named the wrong class.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 13, 2013 06:15 AM (xqlZc)

34 Gomez has been bought. He doesn't want to meet the fate of his fellow SEALs.

Posted by: baldilocks at October 13, 2013 06:15 AM (Tnlh/)

35 "What do they do if someone breaks in?"

Well done!

Andy's Child Rearing Inc.

Independence and MOA accuracy.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 13, 2013 06:18 AM (/kU/5)

36 Damn AP, you never cease to amaze... Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at October 13, 2013 10:14 AM (P/47D) She's probably built a model of everything she just typed about. Didja build any ship models AP? Or do you just build airplanes.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 13, 2013 06:19 AM (XIxXP)

37 This is a "weapons" threat so here goes: The US Department of Defense announced it will abort the development of a helmet mounted display system (HDMS) for its F-35 stealth aircraft in favor of the model developed by the Israeli company Elbit and the American Rockwell Collins. As 4,000 F-35s are currently set for manufacture, the DoD's announcement means a contract worth more than $1 billion over 10 years. Related stories: Elbit sees lift from drone, cyber spending Elbit Systems to sell UAV to US Army US finds 363 problems in F-35 stealth aircraft The new HDMS, to be produced in the US, projects all the information the pilot requires onto the helmet's visor, without him needing to spend valuable time looking at various displays in the cockpit. In addition, the helmet enables the pilot to "see through" the aircraft, by displaying footage from cameras set in various spots on its frame, including its underside, a feature especially useful in dogfights and bombing missions. The Israeli helmet will be part and parcel of all stealth aircraft produced starting in 2016, including the 100 ordered by Turkey. Ironically, should the US's allies in the Persian Gulf such as Saudi Arabia and Bahrain place an order, they will be forced to use the Israeli-developed HDMS. The Israeli Air Force ordered 19 F-35s. Last week Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon toured the aircraft's assembly line in Texas and said the Defense Ministry plans to acquire another F-35 squadron

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 13, 2013 06:20 AM (UbDLm)

38 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 13, 2013 10:18 AM (/kU/5) That was a great article you sent me. A sad but all to familiar story to us lone wolf conservative Jews

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 13, 2013 06:21 AM (UbDLm)

39 Why is this guy a Republican? He's a democrat - an old time democrat. When the dems went full fascist, the old dems decided they would become republicans because they were scared of the new fascist dems. If he were courageous, he would be fighting it out on the dem side, but that's too hard. Coward. Posted by: Brendan at October 13, 2013 10:06 AM (8YVZT) He seems to be an ex military version of Barack Obama. Opinions are fed to him by an invisable magic hand.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 13, 2013 06:21 AM (XIxXP)

40 >> 7 Dec 1941 was not a good day for USS California. My wife's late grandfather was aboard her at the time. That's why I chose that particular picture.

Posted by: Andy at October 13, 2013 06:21 AM (0ZQCB)

41 Iowas and North Carolinas also had two funnels. The reconstructed Tennessees had a single funnel trunked together with the bridge structure like the South Dakotas.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at October 13, 2013 06:22 AM (P/gm7)

42 I love COJ's hash, almost perfectly comes out as P-47D. The Jug.

Never built an SOC or an SC. Not sure there is a kit for them. The Revell 1/520th scale USS Arizona .. or the even more tiny 1/700th scale ships. Yikes. Too small for me.

Check - http://www.ipmsusa.org/ under Upcoming Events. There are a bunch of model shows around the country next weekend.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 13, 2013 06:24 AM (xqlZc)

43 Many people think Bill Ruger was inspired by the PO8 Luger for his standard model design (grip angle, rhyming name). He actually got the idea replicating, of all things, a Baby Nambu pistol. Possibly, like a lot of machinists and tool makers, he started out with a project to amuse himself.

Posted by: Bill at October 13, 2013 06:25 AM (uvyrw)

44 I've toured the Alabama, the Missouri and the NC. You could see the updates to the Mo as they were still active in the 80"s.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 13, 2013 06:26 AM (XIxXP)

45 Per Gomez's logic path.

Does any School district really need high capacity School Bus's with 44 person capacity?
If just one bus driver loses control we could lose .....

Short bus, baby.
It's for the children!!!

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice USN (Ret) at October 13, 2013 06:27 AM (FHXMu)

46 OSP, one of the model contests next weekend will be at the USS Alabama.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 13, 2013 06:27 AM (xqlZc)

47 Boom: Garry Kasparov surprised Nobel committee didnÂ’t give Assad the award for chemistry.

Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 13, 2013 06:28 AM (a6O1A)

48 My Ruger .22 is the gummint target version of that one above. It is outfitted with a red dot sight, and would be a pleasure to shoot, if I could buy .22LR ammo.

Posted by: the littl shyning man at October 13, 2013 06:29 AM (tmFlQ)

49 The MO was tied up at Bremerton, WA when I was there and I could kick myself for not visiting it when I had the chance.

Posted by: Vic at October 13, 2013 06:29 AM (zZbNF)

50 14 Gomez is FOS. Poll after poll shows that Americans do NOT support gun control. And even IF they did, it is not subject to a vote unless the Constitution is changed. Posted by: Vic at October 13, 2013 09:56 AM (zZbNF) His use of the term "assault weapon" displays his ignorance.

Posted by: BignJames at October 13, 2013 06:30 AM (ZNQKl)

51 I toured all the Ships at Fleet Week this year in NYC and...oh yeah, they cancelled Fleet Week this year. SOBs

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 13, 2013 06:30 AM (UbDLm)

52 Back in the summer of 2010 toured USS Missouri in Pearl Harbor.
http://annapuna.blogspot.com/2010/12/december-7th.html

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 13, 2013 06:32 AM (xqlZc)

53 A sad but all to familiar story to us lone wolf conservative Jews

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 13, 2013 10:21 AM (UbDLm)

They are assimilating out of existence, and the modern orthodox are having lots of kids, so maybe it will be a wash!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 13, 2013 06:32 AM (/kU/5)

54 OSP, one of the model contests next weekend will be at the USS Alabama. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 13, 2013 10:27 AM (xqlZc) Cool, I like Mobile. Don't forget to stop at Wintzells Oyster house. Great sea food for the past 75 years. And their motto is "Oysters, fried, stewed or nude."

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 13, 2013 06:32 AM (XIxXP)

55 The Ruger in the picture is the model my dad had and, IIRC, is the first handgun I ever shot. He later gave me a 5.5" bull barrel Mk I for a birthday present, and I have it to this day.

Posted by: Andy at October 13, 2013 06:33 AM (0ZQCB)

56 >>> tiny 1/700th scale ships<<<

The only 1/700 I ever built was HMS Rodney--that was the only scale I could find it in. The Revell 1/520 is actually a good size for battleship/carrier models. The 1/700 are too small (you need a magnifying glass to see detail) and the 1/350 are too big (if you have a collection you need a hanger to keep them in).

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at October 13, 2013 06:33 AM (P/gm7)

57 42 Then there's THIS: http://tinyurl.com/3uxoy

Posted by: DAve at October 13, 2013 06:34 AM (b7yum)

58 Ammo starting to be available at Walmart again. Mine is the closest to NRA HQ. 223 is almost always avail and several pistol cartridges. 9mm still not to be found.

Posted by: blaster at October 13, 2013 06:34 AM (4+AaH)

59 HMS Rodney... *taps chin thinking*

Oh the bob-tail battleship with all the guns forward.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 13, 2013 06:36 AM (xqlZc)

60 I'm a gun neophyte. I'm doing some research for a P&P (pencil & paper) RPG I'm writing, called "Guns in The Outlaw". It's sort of a post-apocalyptic supernatural western. Anyone who's willing to offer some basic advice, or answer questions, I'd appreciate the help. The URL for my current (in-progress) notes: http://daddywarpig.wordpress.com/tag/guns-in-the-outlaw/ email: stormknights AT me.com Here's the question: assume a devastating series of events that splits the country. People living in "The Outlaw" (the frontier) have access to local resources only. If they need food, they grow it. Ammo, they make it. Replacement parts, they have to produce themselves. What weapon designs would be popular in such circumstances? My first guesses were the AK47 (or some variant) and the Colt M1911A1. Rugged designs that can take a lot of abuse, and simple enough that replacement parts can be produced in a machine shop. I may be wrong. Any insight would be welcome.

Posted by: Daddy Warpig at October 13, 2013 06:38 AM (2VhiX)

61 >>>Oh the bob-tail battleship with all the guns forward<<<

Yes. It looked like an oil tanker or a barge with the main battery set forward of the superstructure.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at October 13, 2013 06:38 AM (P/gm7)

62 Then there's THIS: http://tinyurl.com/3uxoy Posted by: DAve at October 13, 2013 10:34 AM (b7yum) Holy Cow that stuff has come a long way since I was bulding Don "The Snake" Prudhomme"s Funny Car.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 13, 2013 06:39 AM (XIxXP)

63 Re: .22 for self defense...I'd bet if "professional hit" data were included, the #s would look real good.

Posted by: BignJames at October 13, 2013 06:39 AM (ZNQKl)

64 From the 'Using the .22 for self-defense' link: In ClaudeÂ’s lifetime study of defensive gun uses, he has yet to find a single case where an armed citizen was killed by a criminal after the criminal had taken at least one .22 round. In the case of civilian defensive gun usage, the criminal almost always flees after the first hit. I have been unable to find any gunfights that prove Claude wrong. I've always thought that was true. Shoot bad guy, bad guy realizes he's hit but *might* live if he gets away quickly. Bad guy flees. No court cases, no law suits, no wrongful death suit, doubtful bad guy will ever return just to be shot again. Bad guy has to explain to ER staff why he has a chunk in his junk. Also, I think women are more likely to be comfortable with small caliber.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat [/i] at October 13, 2013 06:39 AM (U2UQk)

65 Closest I ever got to a BB was BB-62 as the Boat Engineer for the 26 ft MWB off a Knox Class Frigate.
Just imagine coming along side the Accom ladder in open ocean, and all you see is a steel wall going both directions, and extending upward to the sky.

Later, we were able to watch a broadside from about 12000 yards away.
Hard to imagine that our main deck gun (5"/54) would be considered secondary armament for her.

Later in life, one of her engineering officers became my Chief Engineer.
Want stories from him?
Just add beer.
Sit back and enjoy.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice USN (Ret) at October 13, 2013 06:40 AM (FHXMu)

66 Also, I think women are more likely to be comfortable with small caliber. Posted by: SchrÃ¶dinger's cat at October 13, 2013 10:39 AM (U2UQk) I still favor the 18 1/4 inch barrel .20 gauge pistol grip Mossberg for the Misses home defense.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 13, 2013 06:43 AM (XIxXP)

67 Oh ARC. Yeah that place is a bit insane. One of the good things about it is, the moel builders are of various skill sets. Some should be in magazines. Others well 5ft rule. But all are fun.

For OSP his plane.
http://www.arcair.com/Gal1/601-700/gal691-F-14-Quirk/00.shtm

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 13, 2013 06:44 AM (xqlZc)

68 Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 13, 2013 10:44 AM (xqlZc) *sniff* Thank you. Holy crap os the cockpit detailed.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 13, 2013 06:46 AM (XIxXP)

What do they do if someone breaks in?"

you raised your daughter right

I think my brat would kick a soccer ball at the crook and talk shit

Posted by: navycopjoe at October 13, 2013 06:49 AM (nooa6)

70 Posted by: Daddy Warpig at October 13, 2013 10:38 AM (2VhiX) Search for the video 'Gun Markets of Pakistan Vice.' They turn out some amazing weapons with low tech machinery.

Posted by: RWC at October 13, 2013 06:49 AM (LpbKr)

71 Happy Birthday VIA!

Posted by: RWC at October 13, 2013 06:50 AM (LpbKr)

72 I think my brat would kick a soccer ball at the crook and talk shit Posted by: navycopjoe at October 13, 2013 10:49 AM (nooa6) That might work on some punk ass EMO kid.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 13, 2013 06:51 AM (XIxXP)

65 when I was on the fid, we got to watch a broadside from the Iowa

it gave me a gunasism

Posted by: navycopjoe at October 13, 2013 06:51 AM (nooa6)

74 Yes. It looked like an oil tanker or a barge with the main battery set forward of the superstructure. Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at October 13, 2013 10:38 AM (P/gm7) Rodney and Nelson

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at October 13, 2013 06:54 AM (N1hDG)

75 OSP, yup. The hobby has gotten expensive however. The Hasegawa TA-4H in 1/48 scale. Have seen it listed from $50 to over $100. All it is is a re-issue of the Hasegawa TA-4J with different decals and a small tree with Israel only items like the barrel extension for the tailpipe. Yikes!

Or shell out the $50 for the TA-4J. $9 for the Quickboost tailpipe barrel. Plus hope someone has the IsraDecals A-4 Ahit decal sheet still that you can buy.

*thud* The detail sets for a model kit, when added up, cost more than the original kit more often than not.

It is no longer a kid's hobby.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 13, 2013 06:55 AM (xqlZc)

on tiny chicks and guns, a few years back some tool was in the back checking out the bikes and although the wife's carry is a 9mm and we had several .40s, 9mms, and .45s along with a AR, she went for the Remington to take to go have a 'talk' with said tool

don't mess with the wife's Yamaha, she gets upset

Posted by: navycopjoe at October 13, 2013 06:56 AM (nooa6)

77 Heres a picture of the HMS Rodney. http://tinyurl.com/p3cyole

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 13, 2013 06:56 AM (XIxXP)

78 What is the largest gun currently deployed by the US Navy? Anything over 5"?

William Ruger was an avid student at the Patent Office. He boasted that he had taught himself to be a designer, by studying the work of others on their patent applications. This also gave him a fine sense of "what you can get away with," both technically and legally. NTTAW, but he was no mere garage tinkerer.

His partner, rich artist Alexander Sturm, is often overlooked, since he died young. He was way out there (a beard! in 1950!--and the means of his death strongly suggest an acquaintance with a previous iteration of the Moron Lifestyle). He married Alice Roosevelt Longworth's illegitimate daughter, the heir to several prominent Pieces of Work. Ruger was definitely the staid end of the partnership.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at October 13, 2013 06:57 AM (JNUY4)

79 Why is Obama's mouth a lot like your coffee on a Sunday morning?

'Cause it's Chock Full 'o Nuts.

Posted by: Jay Carney cries real (simulated) tears at October 13, 2013 06:57 AM (gfGOZ)

80 I don't know if I told you all. We picked up my AR15 lower build and Beretta CX-4 carbine (.45) last week. We took it to the range and I'm not really comfortable firing it. I'm afraid it's gonna whack me in the face so I keep pulling my face back after sighting it. And I need padding on my shoulder. I love our Winchester .22 rifle (and I'm a crack shot with it), but that's not gonna do much good if I'm being charged.

Posted by: Gingy at October 13, 2013 06:59 AM (jt8G9)

78 it's the 5"

the navy has basically switched over to missiles since they don't really do shore bombardment anymore

a harpoon or two will do some serious to a vessel

Posted by: navycopjoe at October 13, 2013 07:00 AM (nooa6)

82 I was asking my daughter this week whether her school had asked any questions about whether there were any guns in her house and she said, in all seriousness, "wait ... there are people who don't have guns in the house? What do they do if someone breaks in?"

My work here is done.

Man, you need to get yourself a pair of ass-less chaps, a horse and a ten-gallon hat and just ride off into the sunset.

Posted by: Sharkman at October 13, 2013 07:00 AM (8+xjO)

83 >>>What weapon designs would be popular in such circumstances?<<<

Look to history. My go to firearms would be a lever action rifle and revolver combo that shared the same ammo. "The rifle that won the west" wasn't given that name because Hollywood wanted to make a movie.

Posted by: Fritz at October 13, 2013 07:00 AM (x2W/k)

80 if I may? it sounds like you are placing it too high on your shoulder

try a little lower in the natural V your shoulder makes

Posted by: navycopjoe at October 13, 2013 07:02 AM (nooa6)

85 >>>Rodney and Nelson<<<

Yeah the Brits had a class of tankers whose names all ended in -ol. So the sailors took to calling the battleships "Rodnol" and "Nelsol".

If it works there is a link to a picture of Nelson in my name.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at October 13, 2013 07:02 AM (P/gm7)

86 vets just stormed the LIncoln Memorial

Posted by: Ma Bell at October 13, 2013 07:02 AM (RLdcX)

87 That Ruger needs a high capability assault magazine clip. Preferably a snail drummy thing, cuz that looks fascist.

Oh, and a laser targeting device.

And it should be black.

For the children.

Posted by: Gabriel Gomez at October 13, 2013 07:03 AM (qvify)

88 58 ... 9mm still not to be found.

I've had no problem get 9mm at freedommunitions.com. Right now they have 9mm new and reman in 500 round blocks for around 28 and 26 cents a round. (Shipping adds about 2 cents but there is a 5% off coupon for the new today).

And, no I don't work for them. I'm in the lace wig industry. Just a satisfied customer.

Posted by: Fritz (not Fritz) at October 13, 2013 07:03 AM (U0t2o)

89 I was asking my daughter this week whether her school had asked any questions about whether there were any guns in her house and she said, in all seriousness, "wait ... there are people who don't have guns in the house? What do they do if someone breaks in?" OUTSTANDING!!!

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 13, 2013 07:03 AM (XIxXP)

90 [EditorÂ’s note: Senior staff writer Mark D. Faram wanted to share why the Navy birthday is important. Faram spent nearly 10 years on active duty as a photographerÂ’s mate, serving first on the carrier John F. Kennedy, and then in diving billets as a second class diver. Send your own birthday message to navylet@navytimes.com or post them to facebook.com/navytimes.] Today is the NavyÂ’s 238th birthday, and I intend to celebrate. ItÂ’s the 36th birthday since I raised my hand and recited the enlistment oath on Sept. 27, 1977, and my service still matters to me. The Navy is constantly changing. ItÂ’s bringing in new ships and aircraft while others are becoming obsolete. The Navy of today doesnÂ’t look at all like the Navy of 1775. And if we could see 238 years in the future, Â“ourÂ” Navy wonÂ’t look a thing like it does today, either. But what hasnÂ’t changed in all these years, and what will never change, are shipmates. My best friends on this planet to this day are those I served with while wearing Navy blue. PhotographerÂ’s Mate 2nd Class Bill Gunther, and PH1 Harry Gerwien Â— IÂ’m talking about you guys. You are my brothers from other mothers, but you were shipmates, first. I like to consider the Navy birthday to be Â“Shipmate DayÂ” Â— itÂ’s about celebrating those you served with. What makes the Navy is the people: the white hats, the chiefs and yes, even the officers. The same goes for those IÂ’ve left behind across the years. I wonÂ’t forget you, ever. ThereÂ’s Master Chief PhotographerÂ’s Mate Mark Ball. We checked into A school together in 1978. We were very different people, but we were shipmates, and that bonded us together. I lost you over a decade ago, but I still carry your memory today, shipmate! You, too, Senior Chief Thomas Pompillio. You died of bone cancer in 1982, but not until you left your stamp on my life and career. You believed in this wild, young sailor, even after a stint in the brig. You proved it by sending me on to C School just a couple months later. And you approved my request to become a Navy Diver and lived to see me win that pin, too. We buried you off our old ship, the aircraft carrier John F. Kennedy, but youÂ’ve really never left me. So IÂ’ll leave you all with this. Love it or hate it. Whether you served or are serving a part of the Navy ... the Navy is a part of you. ItÂ’s to you, my shipmates, who I raise a glass to today! Happy Birthday!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 13, 2013 07:03 AM (UbDLm)

91 I was asking my daughter this week whether her school had asked any questions about whether there were any guns in her house and she said, in all seriousness, "wait ... there are people who don't have guns in the house? What do they do if someone breaks in?" OUTSTANDING!!! Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 13, 2013 11:03 AM (XIxXP) Ditto

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 13, 2013 07:04 AM (UbDLm)

92 Ustream of Vets.... http://www.ustream.tv/channel/mlr13

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami - GO CARDS!!! at October 13, 2013 07:04 AM (bCEmE)

93 Here is a thought about a boycott and how we can combine gun rights and doing great damage to the Left in California while at the same time helping Conservative states economies. We need a working team between the State of Texas (and other Red States) and the gun rights groups to target specific companies based in California. Not a huge number maybe only a handful, but ones who are in a vulnerable position. The gun rights groups let them know that they are being targeted because of Brown's and California's stance on guns. Point out the effects on Grupon. Next have Texas swoop in and offer to move them to Texas or have some other Red State do it, the point is to remove a company from California's economy. Now comes the ugly part, if they chose not to move hit them with a full court press as far as the boycott goes, make an example of them. After the first round move on to the next, this time with more examples under our belt to use to pressure the next group. Just a thought.

Posted by: southdakotaboy at October 13, 2013 07:04 AM (Baypg)

52 btw, thanks for letting me know you were here for a mini-moron meet up

sniff sniff

Posted by: navycopjoe at October 13, 2013 07:04 AM (nooa6)

95 OSP beat me to the pic.

I had to get the model just because they were so funky looking.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at October 13, 2013 07:05 AM (P/gm7)

96 Bleg: I just bought a Serbu BFG50 (bolt action .50BMG rifle). Any recommendations for a scope? Before it is tragically lost in a boating accident, of course.

Posted by: butch at October 13, 2013 07:06 AM (EV3Uf)

97 ItÂ’s to you, my shipmates, who I raise a glass to today! Happy Birthday! Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 13, 2013 11:03 AM (UbDLm) Well Said, return to Condition X-Ray.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 13, 2013 07:07 AM (XIxXP)

90 you went diver? outstanding!!

I got my scuba under an old crusty beast named Master Diver Riley at Pearl

one of the greatest humans around (always said he would drown me before I passed)

Posted by: navycopjoe at October 13, 2013 07:08 AM (nooa6)

99 Two big things happened just about a hundred years ago that changed thinking about defense rounds. Of course, there was the cattle-carcass ballistics work at the Chicago stockyards that led to the .45 ACP, after the Philippine experience. And we talk about that a lot.

The other was the development of antibiotics. Up until then, a sloppy hit anywhere around the alimentary canal ("Gut shot") with a small, underpowered round was a death sentence. With improved wound cleaning and drugs to inhibit infection, those wounds became survivable. You suddenly had to hurt an assailant a lot worse.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at October 13, 2013 07:09 AM (JNUY4)

100 Gingy, how many spacers are on the butt of your CX-4? That can be adjusted to match your arm length to get a more snug and comfortable fit.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 13, 2013 07:10 AM (xqlZc)

101 I thought a Ruger was a Japanese-licensed Luger!

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at October 13, 2013 07:10 AM (i4xvM)

102 Shame the scrapped the class. Can you IMAGINE them as missile boats?

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at October 13, 2013 07:10 AM (qvify)

103

oh, a navy question

I understand that us greatest of humans (CPOs) will take a day off from making fun of the wardroom folks but we can still make fun of the brown shoes today, right?

Posted by: navycopjoe at October 13, 2013 07:11 AM (nooa6)

104 49 The MO was tied up at Bremerton, WA when I was there and I could kick myself for not visiting it when I had the chance.

Posted by: Vic at October 13, 2013 10:29 AM (zZbNF)

Vic, I did a reenlistment ceremony on the Missouri in Bremerton in 1992, I think it was. Somewhere in my first ex-wife's storage boxes is a black and white pic of me casually leaning up against the barrel of her aft-turret 16 inch guns. I would love to have that pic back.

What were you doing up there at that time? Hunting Bremalos?

Posted by: Sharkman at October 13, 2013 07:12 AM (8+xjO)

105

ustream.tv/channel/mlr13

live video of the march at dc

crowd moving to the whitehouse

Posted by: rain of lead at October 13, 2013 07:12 AM (J/npG)

106 Yay, just picked up my newest baby. Springfield XD9. I like it almost as much as my HK 40. Anyone else looking for concealed carry classes in Illinois? $500 seems to be the going rate. Sounds high to me. Things to do this weekend---buy boxes of 9mm and fix pesky hole in boat. Happy hunting fellow 'rons.

Posted by: fartist at October 13, 2013 07:13 AM (q6Qym)

107 over 78,000 people watching now

Posted by: rain of lead at October 13, 2013 07:13 AM (J/npG)

108 1 - That stat about cops being three times more likely to commit murder than a CCW holder is no surprise. Consistent with increased probability of being shot by po-po in performance of their duties than a CCW holder. I previously posted a 2x2 matrix that explained why.

2 - That pretentious douche Gomez trotted out another "only one" justification. And he dishonestly doesn't differentiate between the military M4/M16 he carried and the semi-auto M-forgery we civilians buy.

3 - I've noticed the gun grabbers dropping the term "gun control" in favor of "gun sense" or variant. Dishonest (I know) fascists.

Posted by: butch at October 13, 2013 07:14 AM (EV3Uf)

109

104 I was on the MDSU 1 tow team that towed it to Bremerton

even with it decommed, it was amazing to see it upclose and walk around

towed the ranger too but I've been on her several times and being stationed on the fid took away my awe of carriers

Posted by: navycopjoe at October 13, 2013 07:14 AM (nooa6)

110 uh oh, the vets are going to the White HOuse

Posted by: Ma Bell at October 13, 2013 07:15 AM (RLdcX)

111

106 fine choice

I've been singing the glory of the XD family here for a while

Posted by: navycopjoe at October 13, 2013 07:16 AM (nooa6)

112 uh oh, the vets are going to the White HOuse Posted by: Ma Bell at October 13, 2013 11:15 AM (RLdcX) They are Carrying Barricades.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 13, 2013 07:16 AM (XIxXP)

113 Some vets are taking the barricades that were up at the Lincoln Memorial and carrying them to the white house.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami - GO CARDS!!! at October 13, 2013 07:16 AM (bCEmE)

114 OSP, Nevergiveup, and other squids. A sea story
http://a4skyhawk.org/?q=2d/tins/seabees.htm

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 13, 2013 07:17 AM (xqlZc)

115

110 sweet, it's their house too

maybe they can get Obama to take his fucking feet off the resolution desk

that burns me up so bad

Posted by: navycopjoe at October 13, 2013 07:17 AM (nooa6)

116 Happy Birthday, Squids!

Posted by: baldilocks at October 13, 2013 07:18 AM (Tnlh/)

117

nearly 85,000 people watching

this guys live stream

Posted by: rain of lead at October 13, 2013 07:18 AM (J/npG)

118 So here is my serious "gun guy (or gal)" question. I don't consider myself a gun guy, I consider myself a shooter. Since I was first taught I could shoot the shit out of any gun put in my hands but I never really got into the deep weeds of guns. I just have a bunch and shoot a bunch. Why 38 special? Why not just buy the same gun in 357? That way you can shoot 38+p, 38 or 357. Am I missing something? I will hang up and transplant some camellias to listen to the answer.

Posted by: traye at October 13, 2013 07:18 AM (P7t8O)

119

y'all get on social media spread the link

we need to get as many people as we can seeing this

Posted by: rain of lead at October 13, 2013 07:19 AM (J/npG)

120 bikers and truckers and vets..oh my!

Posted by: rain of lead at October 13, 2013 07:20 AM (J/npG)

121

well kids, i'm off to drive Miss Daisy

a final shout out to all my shipmates with a special salute to the moron I really was stationed with, GGE

---NCJ EMC(SW/AW/DV) USNret

Posted by: navycopjoe at October 13, 2013 07:20 AM (nooa6)

122 Why 38 special? Why not just buy the same gun in 357? That way you can shoot 38+p, 38 or 357. Am I missing something? I will hang up and transplant some camellias to listen to the answer. Posted by: traye at October 13, 2013 11:18 AM (P7t8O) I didn't know that .357s took .38 ammo until I bought a .357 and the dealer told me so.

Posted by: baldilocks at October 13, 2013 07:20 AM (Tnlh/)

123 Nice pic of a happier, more powerful era in US history.

Caracal is shipping pistols again, and their carbine will be coming out "soon"...

Posted by: sven10077 at October 13, 2013 07:20 AM (9jfyN)

124 Some vets are taking the barricades that were up at the Lincoln Memorial and carrying them to the white house. Sweet

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat [/i] at October 13, 2013 07:21 AM (U2UQk)

125 Well, I got my first deer of the year yesterday afternoon. No skunked already. Meat in the freezer!

Posted by: maddogg at October 13, 2013 07:21 AM (MK7rC)

126 Congrats, Maddog!

Posted by: Empire1 at October 13, 2013 07:22 AM (ZLYm3)

127 That has to be more viewers than MSLSD.

Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 13, 2013 07:22 AM (a6O1A)

128 110 uh oh, the vets are going to the White HOuse Posted by: Ma Bell at October 13, 2013 11:15 AM (RLdcX) Where are you watching/getting this info. TIA.

Posted by: RWC at October 13, 2013 07:22 AM (q7ots)

129

heh

the vets are going to go BARRYCADE the White House

Posted by: rain of lead at October 13, 2013 07:23 AM (J/npG)

130 I'm sure our Navy friends know this already, but for everyone else, did you know the Navy has two birthdays? It's true. After it was founded, the service was "decommissioned" or whatever they called it, only to be later reinstated by an act of Congress.

In the mean time, between those two events, the Marine Corps was born.

So now, if you see service flags flown, they are ordered by their birthdays: Army first, then Marine Corps, then Navy, then Air Force, then Coast Guard (unless the CG is activated as a service branch, then they move ahead of the AF).

Navy dudes don't like it, but the DoD has deemed the second birthday to be appropriate for the flag issue, whereas the Navy is allowed to continue to commemorate their original birthday.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 13, 2013 07:23 AM (BeSEI)

131 I got to thinking about it and that old M1 ammo may be Greek. Either way it still shoots fine after 40 years.

Posted by: Freaked Out! at October 13, 2013 07:23 AM (q3Fwr)

132 RWC....live stream here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/mlr13

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami - GO CARDS!!! at October 13, 2013 07:23 AM (bCEmE)

133 NGU @ 90 - Hoists glass in return. Happy birthday, shipmate.

Posted by: butch at October 13, 2013 07:23 AM (EV3Uf)

134 The .22lr is the preferred round for mob hits. The round ricochets around inside the brain case. Very damaging. And not much of a report.

Posted by: navybrat at October 13, 2013 07:24 AM (k3O9f)

135 Just noticed the link. Thanks rainoflead.

Posted by: RWC at October 13, 2013 07:24 AM (q7ots)

136 132 That's way better than the Weasel feed.

Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 13, 2013 07:25 AM (a6O1A)

137 Thx Tami.

Posted by: RWC at October 13, 2013 07:25 AM (q7ots)

138

streaming video

address

www.ustream.tv/channel/mlr13

Posted by: rain of lead at October 13, 2013 07:25 AM (J/npG)

139 Go you guys! Barry needs to know some of us will not bow down.

Posted by: Freaked Out! at October 13, 2013 07:25 AM (q3Fwr)

140

oh.....

and BEAT ARMY!!!!

Posted by: navycopjoe at October 13, 2013 07:26 AM (nooa6)

141 NCJ @ 103 - Of course. BTW, it was a real bummer when I realized I was older than my chiefs.

O-Gang, retired

Posted by: butch at October 13, 2013 07:27 AM (EV3Uf)

142 I hear them vets saying the 'n' word. Fifteen times! Rep. John Lewis Seriously, I watching 'Hating Breitbart' last night on Netflix. AB recovered footage for every foot that Lewis walked -- in the exact area that Lewis claimed to have heard the epithet -- and it was never said.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat [/i] at October 13, 2013 07:27 AM (U2UQk)

143

the feed has been popping in and out all morning

if it drops just wait, he will be right back on

Posted by: rain of lead at October 13, 2013 07:27 AM (J/npG)

144 95,000 viewers.

Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 13, 2013 07:27 AM (a6O1A)

145

HB, USN. As we used to say,

"238 years of tradition, unchanged by progress!"

"The Navy - It's more than just ships at sea. But mostly, it's ships at sea."

Hooyah.

Posted by: Bluto.com at October 13, 2013 07:27 AM (C8V2U)

146 My favorite Navy story occurred ten years after I got out. I was sitting in a Keg restaurant Belllevue, WA in 2001 watching Duke play Arizona in the national championship game when I noticed a very skinny old guy sitting at the next table showing a young man a binder full of black and white photos.

Turns out the old man was aboard the Lady Lex when she went down at Coral Sea, and he took about 100 pics of her aboard after she was hit and all the way through her sinking (those last obviously taken from the escort ship he made it to when they abandoned ship), and he'd kept them in pristine condition all those years.

Everyone has seen this pic in the history books of that event: http://tinyurl.com/k86qp5a as well as the one of her with the huge gray mushroom cloud bursting from her. But nobody but that old squid and his family, and me, have seen the other 100 photos he took that day.

I just watched as he showed the boy his pics, and when the game ended (Duke won, but I didn't see it as I was completely mesmerized by the Lexington pics), I went up to him and put my hand on his shoulder and said: "Thank you for being out there when we needed you" and walked out. The kid looked at me like I was crazy but the old man's eyes were glistening.

Heroes. I love 'em.

Posted by: Sharkman at October 13, 2013 07:28 AM (8+xjO)

147 almost 100,000 viewers now

Posted by: rain of lead at October 13, 2013 07:28 AM (J/npG)

148 Got the Mossberg 751T two weeks ago or so. Yep, feels like a toy. Think it will be helluva fun/cheap to shoot.

Posted by: RWC at October 13, 2013 07:29 AM (q7ots)

149 The feed keeps breaking up.

Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 13, 2013 07:29 AM (a6O1A)

150 OSP, Nevergiveup, and other squids. A sea story http://a4skyhawk.org/?q=2d/tins/seabees.htm Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 13, 2013 11:17 AM (xqlZc) Great story and very true.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 13, 2013 07:29 AM (UbDLm)

151 149 The feed keeps breaking up. Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 13, 2013 11:29 AM (a6O1A) Not us....swearzies.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] NSA at October 13, 2013 07:30 AM (bCEmE)

152 Oh, hey, this is kind of late, but on Ace's specialty thread comment rule thingy, the gun thread is usually pretty on-topic anyway so I don't really feel the need to post another thread or that little restriction legend. And in a gun thread that leads with a picture of a battleship, comments about ship models, etc. are close enough to on-topic for me. If anyone thinks differently about this, let me know, but I don't think we need to fret about the comments posted here.

Posted by: Andy at October 13, 2013 07:31 AM (0ZQCB)

153 Excellent job on the gun thread Andy. It was a pleasure to read.

Posted by: GnuBreed at October 13, 2013 07:32 AM (wNF3N)

154 NCJ - At my last command (USNAVSO), I planned numerous SOUTHCOM deployments with the MDSU-2 bubbas out of NORVA. Great guys, loved working with them, got a CO's coin.

Posted by: butch at October 13, 2013 07:32 AM (EV3Uf)

155 The Lincoln Memorial closure seems to be less than successful.

Posted by: Boss Moss former editor of the Harvard Law Review at October 13, 2013 07:33 AM (a6O1A)

156 So Gomez believes in titles of nobility for SEALS

Posted by: tmitsss at October 13, 2013 07:34 AM (aVsJj)

157 Oh, hey, this is kind of late, but on Ace's specialty thread comment rule thingy, the gun thread is usually pretty on-topic anyway so I don't really feel the need to post another thread or that little restriction legend. And in a gun thread that leads with a picture of a battleship, comments about ship models, etc. are close enough to on-topic for me. If anyone thinks differently about this, let me know, but I don't think we need to fret about the comments posted here. Posted by: Andy at October 13, 2013 11:31 AM (0ZQCB) Guns=big guns on Battleships=Military=Navy Birthday=Navy Planes=Guns There is a symmetry there

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 13, 2013 07:34 AM (UbDLm)

158 I'm having trouble finding Federal .308 SMK GM Match, 175 gr.

If anybody has a lead on where it can be found, it would be much appreciated. There is just none to be found around here.

Posted by: Marcus at October 13, 2013 07:34 AM (0Vge0)

159 Book thread and accompanying Open thread up.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami - GO CARDS!!! at October 13, 2013 07:34 AM (bCEmE)

160 Live Stream - holy crap. Was that the War of the Worlds horn!

Posted by: RWC at October 13, 2013 07:35 AM (q7ots)

161 Barry flew the hell out of Dodge about half an hour ago on Marine one

Posted by: rain of lead at October 13, 2013 07:35 AM (J/npG)

162 I have a very nice 1903a3 from the CMP. They are just a pleasure to deal with.

And put the events at Camp Perry on your bucket list. You will not meet nicer people at any other event on the planet.

Posted by: Marcus at October 13, 2013 07:36 AM (0Vge0)

163 104 What were you doing up there at that time? Hunting Bremalos?

Posted by: Sharkman at October 13, 2013 11:12 AM (8+xjO)

I was in drydock in the Enterprise. This was around '74.

Posted by: Vic at October 13, 2013 07:38 AM (zZbNF)

164 The picture of the guns on the Santa Maria is appropriate to both the gun thread and Columbus Day. We'll played, sir.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at October 13, 2013 07:38 AM (oZr5y)

165 I toured all the Ships at Fleet Week this year in NYC
Me too!!!

Posted by: sandy fluke at October 13, 2013 07:39 AM (i4xvM)

166 Andy, what grade did you get? And what was the actual turnaround time?

Posted by: Oedipus at October 13, 2013 07:39 AM (Tjkt6)

167 158 I'm having trouble finding Federal .308 SMK GM Match, 175 gr. If anybody has a lead on where it can be found, it would be much appreciated. There is just none to be found around here. Posted by: Marcus at October 13, 2013 11:34 AM (0Vge0) Have you tried ammoseek? 1.81 per round if you want to support CTD. I wouldn't.

Posted by: RWC at October 13, 2013 07:39 AM (q7ots)

168
Hmmm... I think Mr. Gomez is mostly upset about not getting that sweet sweet government job wherein he can inside trade, enrich himself, and look down upon the common plebes.

But that does not mean virtually anybody should have one.

Yes, this guy should be king, as you can see he wants to decide who is graced with what.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 13, 2013 07:40 AM (N8z9m)

169 Old business: a couple of people promised to bring up the various uses and applications (or lack thereof) of WD40. Legend has it that, stuck with a stored inventory of a certain air liner, Howard Hughes had a hand in its development. Its Cleveland home-office address makes it a target in the The South, where I've heard it called "perfyumed ker-o-sene."

I have found that, in the absence of Hoppe's #9, a few drops applied as a an after-shave will attract the right sort of female. And drive off the others.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at October 13, 2013 07:41 AM (JNUY4)

170 >1.81 per round if you want to support CTD. <

Ugh, never CTD. Never.

Posted by: Marcus at October 13, 2013 07:44 AM (0Vge0)

171 "Hunting Bremalos?"

Now that's a phrase I haven't heard in at least three decades.

Spend a winter at BIW, and you find an east coast corollary to that.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice USN (Ret) at October 13, 2013 07:46 AM (FHXMu)

172 towed the ranger too but I've been on her several times and being stationed on the fid took away my awe of carriers

Posted by: navycopjoe at October 13, 2013 11:14 AM (nooa6)

I was flown out to Cubi Point Naval Air Station in 1989 (via Manila by air then through the jungle on a jitnee to Cubi) when I reported to my ship (USS Camden, AOE-2). They threw me on a C-2 Greyhound COD flight and we flew out to the Ranger in the South China Sea. Pilot missed the trap the first attempt at landing and had to punch it and go around (better than any amusement ride, EVER!) then landed the second time, got to watch flight ops from a ready room just below the flight deck, got helo'd out to the Camden, and . . .

. . . the very next morning the Camden pulled back into Subic Bay. Ha! Sending me out there was probably the biggest waste of taxpayer dollars ever, and it was probably the most fun I've ever had, nekkid time included.

Posted by: Sharkman at October 13, 2013 07:47 AM (8+xjO)

173 Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice USN (Ret) at October 13, 2013 11:46 AM (FHXMu)

There's a town in Washington near Bremerton called Port Orchard. Home of the "Port Orchard-saurus", a critter very similar in nature to the Bremalo, only a bit smellier.

Posted by: Sharkman at October 13, 2013 07:49 AM (8+xjO)

174
I'm thinking ammo prices should fall if all that ammo can't be sold in CA, you know who that benefits. Me.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 13, 2013 07:49 AM (N8z9m)

175 173 There's a town in Washington near Bremerton called Port Orchard. Home of the "Port Orchard-saurus", a critter very similar in nature to the Bremalo, only a bit smellier.

Posted by: Sharkman at October 13, 2013 11:49 AM (8+xjO)

Friends had an apartment there.

Posted by: Vic at October 13, 2013 07:52 AM (zZbNF)

176 Thinking about that lead ammo hunting ban. How they gonna enforce that one? You buy some steel rounds to show the nice ranger, then replace them with lead for the hunt.

Posted by: navybrat at October 13, 2013 07:55 AM (k3O9f)

177 Most, if not all, liberal gun control laws are unenforceable.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 13, 2013 07:59 AM (N8z9m)

178 156 So Gomez believes in titles of nobility for SEALS Posted by: tmitsss ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ He is indicative of the fact that the title alone means nothing unless the bearer demonstrates the character that it represents.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at October 13, 2013 08:03 AM (P/47D)

179 100 Gingy, how many spacers are on the butt of your CX-4? That can be adjusted to match your arm length to get a more snug and comfortable fit. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 13, 2013 11:10 AM (xqlZc) --- It's stock, no modifications.

Posted by: Gingy at October 13, 2013 08:04 AM (jt8G9)

180 Crap, tried to go to that ustream on my phone and it just turned my internet off. Man I wanted to watch.

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 13, 2013 08:30 AM (GX2fm)

181 161 Marine One overflew the Lincoln Memorial crowd (sorta). It got jeered

Posted by: Weirddave at October 13, 2013 08:30 AM (gKGI0)

182 I read this article the other day:

http://tinyurl.com/mpldccf

Is there anybody else who thinks this is a really cool idea?

The .32 NAA is a .380 cartridge necked down to .32. From the NAA Guardian with a 2.5 inch barrel the muzzle velocity is ~1200 fps. From a 4 inch barrel like you would find on a early 20th century .32 or .380 pocket pistol it is more like ~1450 fps. That is the sort of muzzle velocity you see from a 7.62X25mm pistol like a Tokarev or Broomhandle Mauser.

So by getting an extra barrel chambered for this cartridge, you can convert a moderately powered antique pistol into a reasonably powerful self defense gun.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at October 13, 2013 08:40 AM (q1sF4)

183
btw those old Winchester and Remington ads have some damn good art.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 13, 2013 08:49 AM (N8z9m)

184 >> 166 Andy, what grade did you get? And what was the actual turnaround time? I ordered the one listed as RM1SPECIAL on the site on June 11th. They sent an email last week apologizing for the delay and asked if I wanted to change it to a new item called RM1SPECIALHRA which is the same gun but with an H&R receiver instead of Springfield. I made the switch and got the gun on 10/9. They said the Springfield receiver might take up to 6 more months.

Posted by: Andy at October 13, 2013 09:16 AM (53Nsb)

185 CMP is offering a course at the Anniston Arsenal where you build your M1 Garand under the instruction of their armorers. You also learn how to maintain/repair it.

Oh, the Garand is included in the cost. The first course offered filled up in a day. They plan to offer another this spring. As I live in BHM, needless to say I will respond quickly to the next announcement.

Posted by: butch at October 13, 2013 09:28 AM (EV3Uf)

186

Richard McEnroe @ 102 - in 1986 I spent a day on the USS Iowa in Norfolk. Senate staff trip - others in the group were, as was generally the case, completely ignorant of their alleged area of expertise (defense, military technology, etc.). Anyway, fantastic time, of course. On your comment re refitting the Iowa class with missiles (I'm assuming that's what you were getting at), they actually were, to a degree. Big box launchers for Tomahawks amidships. And of course most secondary and smaller batteries removed.

But the most interesting thing (aside from being shown the "wound" on the aft turret where a Japanese naval round - probably 8" - hit the ship during a night engagement - there was a very shallow pizza-pan-sized divot in the armor, our guide explained that they didn't even know they'd been hit til morning when the splintered teak deck below was noticed .... gotta love that, third largest ordnance in use by navies at the time hits you and you don't even feel it) were the CO's comments on survivability. At lunch I asked him if anyone had studied how much of a beating the Iowas might take from Soviet naval cruise missiles and still keep on ticking. As I recall, he said something along the lines of: some contractor had tossed in a back-of-envelope analysis of this question and had come up with "100 or more". !!!!!!

My clueless colleagues asked why the CO and I were laughing - I explained that this was a large part of the Northern Fleet's inventory, and just for one US ship, and how the Iowa class represented a completely different era in naval architecture, one which made modern missiles fairly impotent.

Anyway, good times. And there's nothing like the 16 in./50 cal. naval rifles, teak decks, majestic lines, and ridiculously sturdy armor of the Iowa class. Still hoping that some day the Iowa herself will end up in San Diego (insider scuttlebutt from LA tells me that the ship is not hitting its numbers and predictably struggling to do so given its location in a gritty and unknown part of LA harbor).

Posted by: non-purist at October 13, 2013 09:41 AM (afQnV)

187 I know it's all in good humor, but the sensationalist/absurdist spin that the CMP is a "loophole" could catch on, and that would be a bad thing.

Posted by: Chairman LMAO at October 13, 2013 09:58 AM (mRrjf)

188 RWC (#70) Â— Great video, thanks. Really eye-opening. (Like I said, I'm a neophyte, but I know it.) #83 Â— I was thinking along those same lines. My idea was a 1911 and AK47, both redesigned to use the same ammo. If you were to do that, what round would you use. I'm leaning towards 10mm, which I can justify in the history of the setting, but I don't know if it can be ballistically justified. Basically, there are several different very big creatures that prey on settlements, and people need a beefed up round for use in the Kalishnakov. Again, any comments would be helpful.

Posted by: Daddy Warpig at October 13, 2013 10:15 AM (2VhiX)

189 I was thinking about the Rodneys, with that huge flat deck area and magazine space once you pulled the main batteries. I do remember the Iowa BB's getting their cruise missiles.

By the way, is the 16"/45 a good load for feral pig. My new place in Texas has feral hogs and anything made of bacon around me just has to die.

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at October 13, 2013 10:22 AM (qvify)

190 >>>#83 Â— I was thinking along those same lines. My idea was a 1911 and AK47, both redesigned to use the same ammo. <<<

Why not a 1911 and a Tommy gun? Both .45ACP, no redesign necessary.

Posted by: Fritz at October 13, 2013 10:27 AM (x2W/k)

191 191 Fritz @ 2:27,

or a 1911 and a Grease Gun

Posted by: sven10077 at October 13, 2013 11:19 AM (9jfyN)

192 #191 - (From my reading.) The Thompson SMG had problems when deployed in combat (according to my reading), including trouble penetrating armor. Also, it isn't as rugged as the AK (and variants). The AK is legendarily rugged and reliable, under a wide range of conditions. It is also very cheap to make, and can be turned out in large numbers. (The AK has also been fitted with underbarrel accessories like grenade launchers, something the Thompson has not.) In world: Outlaw settlements are about as rich and peaceful as your typical Liberian village, so the same conditions that made the AK attractive to Third World nations, also made it attractive to the Outlaw. Large numbers of Chinese-made Type 56 rifles arrived in Seattle with tens of thousands of refugees from the Chinese Civil War (circa 2021), and so the rifles and ammo for them became commonplace on the West Coast. Browning Arms (in Utah) had become the largest arms manufacturer in the west, and so began making 7.62 rounds for sale to the Seattle city-state. When Browning was tooling up for military production (after the first Emergence vortexes appeared in 2025), they made the then-controversial choice to begin with a variant based on the Type 56. Cheap, rugged, easy to use, it was perfect for the needs of a frontier people who were largely self-sufficient. 10mm Â— I'm assuming the move to 10mm ammo came 10 years later, after vortexes proved to be more than a transient phenomenon. A larger round proved superior in combat against creatures from the vortexes. They chose the KBR (the BAC designed Type-56 variant) as the base weapon, to keep the same characteristics of simplicity, economy, and durability. This was named the KB-35. A redesigned M1911A1, the CB-35, which used the same 10mm round, followed. In service for less than 4 years, the two weapons haven't been widely adopted outside Utah. The BP and the Texas Rangers both carry the -35's, as they are tasked to deal with vortexes and the monsters which emerge. Freelance warriors known as Guns also like the pair, but the relative paucity of 10mm, in comparison to the ubiquitous 7.62, has slowed adoption. (Sorry for the length. In-world, it makes sense, I think. Tell me if you see any errors.)

Posted by: Daddy Warpig at October 13, 2013 11:21 AM (2VhiX)

193 The Ruger Mk.1 may be a pleasure to shoot (and it is), but it's a PITA to load those last few rounds into the magazine.

Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at October 13, 2013 11:51 AM (lILC0)

194 I wish we had kept the battleships in operation and upgraded the hell out of them with 21st century tech. Magnificent machines.

Posted by: whoever at October 13, 2013 12:17 PM (UJe/j)

195 195 I wish we had kept the battleships in operation and upgraded the hell out of them with 21st century tech. Magnificent machines.

Posted by: whoever at October 13, 2013 04:17 PM (UJe/j)

You would love the book "Of Arms and Men" by Robert O'Connell.

Posted by: tangonine at October 13, 2013 12:47 PM (x3YFz)

196 194 The Ruger Mk.1 may be a pleasure to shoot (and it is), but it's a PITA to load those last few rounds into the magazine.

Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at October 13, 2013 03:51 PM (lILC0)

Same with Glock 30... thumb push ups!

Posted by: tangonine at October 13, 2013 12:48 PM (x3YFz)

197 A Ruger Mk II was my first gun purchase. Still love the thing. Alas, tragic boating accident and allÂ…

Posted by: The Political Hat at October 13, 2013 01:03 PM (Vk2pI)

198 Texas has a battleship and an aircraft carrier. The USS Texas, and the USS Lexington.

Posted by: Invictus at October 13, 2013 01:04 PM (FBkKA)

199 I just thought I'd let the moron horde know that I used a firearm for the first time today. A friend of mine said he and his coworkers had been going to the range since they were furloughed, so I asked to tag along. Turns out one is a former marine shooting instructor, so he was more than happy to show the ropes to a neophyte. I didn't catch it all, but I got to fire a 0.22 pistol (don't know the model), an 0.223 AR-something or other, and an AK-something or other whose caliber I never remembered. 39mm? Anyhow, the AR had an electronic optical scope on it, which was very nice. The AK had ironsights, which I apparently have no capacity to use. All the same, an excellent way to spend a gray, drizzly afternoon in MD.

Posted by: Hal at October 13, 2013 01:06 PM (2wZs/)

200 Posted by: Hal at October 13, 2013 05:06 PM (2wZs/)

Nice!

Welcome to the world of you're now going to spend too much on stuff your wife won't understand!

Posted by: tangonine at October 13, 2013 01:27 PM (x3YFz)

201 Basically, there are several different very big creatures that prey on settlements, and people need a beefed up round for use in the Kalishnakov. Again, any comments would be helpful. Posted by: Daddy Warpig at October 13, 2013 02:15 PM (2VhiX) Not for AK, but the .50 Beowulf can be used in a revolver and an AR.

Posted by: RWC at October 13, 2013 02:53 PM (LpbKr)

202 I wish we had kept the battleships in operation and upgraded the hell out of them with 21st century tech. Magnificent machines.

Posted by: whoever at October 13, 2013 04:17 PM (UJe/j)

Nothing except the Iowa class would be even close to fast enough to function in a modern battle environment. The California, pictured above, had a top speed of 21 knots (about 24mph). Prior to WWII, the U.S. Navy battleline apparently wasn't in a hurry to get anywhere. Cruising speed vs. battle speed is one thing, but in a tactical environment the slow top speed of the U.S. battlewagons would have been a serious disadvantage in a war with Japan. Before the full development of aircraft carriers, that is.

Even after that, though, the Iowa class made up for a multitude of sins. If I am not mistaken, even though they are all now museums, I believe that they are maintained in such condition that they could actually be re-activated in the event of a national emergency.

Although I'd prefer a new class of nuclear-powered BB, fast enough to keep up with the Nimitz class (and follow-on carriers), mounting a couple of rail guns and otherwise focusing on command survivability (i.e. heavily armored) and umbrella air defense.

Posted by: HTL at October 13, 2013 03:45 PM (nWypX)

203 Posted by: Daddy Warpig at October 13, 2013 03:21 PM (2VhiX)

Any discussion of armament such as what you are proposing starts with deciding the level of industrial development and how that relates to the production of ammunition. If they can produce modern ammunition, including bullets, cases, powder and primers in quantities as great as they want at affordable prices, that is one circumstance. If they can produce potassium nitrate from their sewage treatment plants in order to make black powder but do not have the resources or machinery to mass produce brass cartridge cases, that is a different circumstance and will drive the type of ammunition they can use and the designs of the firearms that will use it.

A massive disruption of civilization might lead to circumstances where different areas are at both ends of the availability spectrum or even in the Mad Max situation where only legacy firearms and ammunition are around and most people use muscle powered weapons.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at October 13, 2013 05:02 PM (q1sF4)

204 Probably talking to a dead thread but I was able to order 9mm from Palmetto State Armory the other day. I also picked up a 350 rd box today at Gander Mountain for $119.99. They were on sale here in Michigan and it ends tomorrow.

Posted by: Bill R. at October 13, 2013 05:19 PM (QnRSM)

205 Thanks to everybody who commented and sent emails. I very much appreciate the assisstance. Cheers!

Posted by: Daddy Warpig at October 13, 2013 07:20 PM (2VhiX)

206 "Nothing except the Iowa class would be even close to fast enough to function in a modern battle environment. The California, pictured above, had a top speed of 21 knots (about 24mph). Prior to WWII, the U.S. Navy battleline apparently wasn't in a hurry to get anywhere. Cruising speed vs. battle speed is one thing, but in a tactical environment the slow top speed of the U.S. battlewagons would have been a serious disadvantage in a war with Japan. Before the full development of aircraft carriers, that is.

Even after that, though, the Iowa class made up for a multitude of sins. If I am not mistaken, even though they are all now museums, I believe that they are maintained in such condition that they could actually be re-activated in the event of a national emergency.

Although I'd prefer a new class of nuclear-powered BB, fast enough to keep up with the Nimitz class (and follow-on carriers), mounting a couple of rail guns and otherwise focusing on command survivability (i.e. heavily armored) and umbrella air defense.

Posted by: HTL at October 13, 2013 07:45 PM (nWypX)"

In order to deal with the speed issue, it would probably be necessary to replace the propulsion system. The WW II era battleships used oil fired boilers and steam turbines directly driving the screws through transmissions. Some of the older ones used triple expansion steam piston engines. I would propose upgrading those ships by removing the boilers, engines and transmissions and replacing them with gas turbine generators and electric drive. The gas turbine generator sets would probably be COTS equipment used in electric generating stations. Because you are transmitting power within the ship through electric cables instead of power shafts, you have a lot more flexibility in where you locate the turbine generator sets. The main consideration is going to be getting enough air in and very hot exhaust gasses out.

Going to electric motor drive also allows you to replace the rudder or rudders with azipods and even to install an azipod or two at the front of the ship so that they can add additional thrust when under way but also allow the ship to maneuver in port without tug boats and to do a 180 degree turn in a very short distance.

Lots of electric power also allows you to run the rail guns, lasers and mass driver weapons.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at October 13, 2013 11:42 PM (q1sF4)

207 I had to work Sunday night so missed this great thread. Did watch Walking Dead, though. I have a Lodge brother who was a QM on the Iowa during the Korean War, and had a kid work for me who was an OSSN onboard when the gun mount blew up. I loved my time at sea, on Independence and FDR, but preferred the SeaBee Navy. As to .22LR.,The Ruger 22/45 with bull barrel is one sweet all-purpose handgun. It will get a meal or stop a thug, in the right hands. Is .22LR an effective round? Let me put it this way. You don't want to be hit by one. Trust me. And Happy Birthday, USN and Shipmates past present, and future!
EROWMER, EOC (SCW/AW) ret.

Posted by: EROWMER at October 14, 2013 05:50 PM (OONaw)

Hide Comments | Add Comment | Refresh | Top

Comments are disabled. Post is locked.

187kb generated in CPU 0.1335, elapsed 0.2276 seconds.
64 queries taking 0.195 seconds, 335 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.