Ace of Spades HQ

October 20, 2013

Gun Thread (10-20-2013)
— andy

Why Carry A Gun?

From Massad Ayoob at the DC

Kathy Jackson said it best on her website (www.corneredcat.com): Â“I carry a gun because I canÂ’t carry a policeman.Â”

Great Moments In Equal Protection

Read this great piece by Emily Miller on the Washington, D.C. police department's lax enforcement of the district's gun laws as long as the guns in question are being used to protest the second amendment. Call it the David Gregory Rule.

The Children's Defense Fund, which is cosponsoring the event, said in a press release that blacksmiths will be using Â“illegal guns confiscated by the police.Â”
...
It is illegal in the District to possess a firearm that is not registered. When asked about the event, Police Chief Cathy LanierÂ’s spokesman said that, Â“These are not firearms. They are scrap parts only, and they are inoperable.Â”
ThatÂ’s actually legally irrelevant. According to the District firearms laws written after the Supreme CourtÂ’s Heller decision in 2008, even a non-functioning firearm must be registered and can result in criminal liability.

Gun Of The Week

(answer below)

Marksmanship Award

Hero/Day - TX: Man shot trying to barge into ex-girlfriend's apartment - http://t.co/6DhjRPpzLT #NRA #ArmedCitizen (via @abc13houston)
— Cam and Company (@CamAndCompany) October 18, 2013

Gun Of The Week - Answer

That's the Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine gun. (Bonus points for MP5SD)

Joe Biden, Field Tested

European Cops Join Freakout Over 3D-Printed Guns, Admit They're Beyond Control

Welcome to the party, pal.

Â“Our interest was to see if the manufacturing of a working gun using this technology is possible,Â” said Karl-Heinz GrundbÃ¶ck, a spokesman for the Austrian Interior Ministry, which performed the test in May. Â“The answer was a very clear Â‘Yes.Â’ Â”

Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

The owner's manual for your concealed carry permit: The Law of Self Defense

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Celebrate America's firearms heritage: participate in Project Appleseed.

Posted by: andy at 05:50 AM | Comments (184)
Post contains 368 words, total size 4 kb.

1 Can't carry a policeman, I love that.

Posted by: Vic at October 20, 2013 05:54 AM (zZbNF)

2 There is a youtube floating around that has a German (possibly?) guy shooting ball bearings from a slingshot. He has built his sling for safetey. Meh.

Posted by: EROWMER at October 20, 2013 05:55 AM (OONaw)

3 Guns? To hell with that. Where's my free Barkycare? I do miss my AR. Damn boat.

Posted by: weirdflunky at October 20, 2013 05:55 AM (vkUow)

4 Ahh The MP-5 The choice of weapon for the Motor City Mad Man... Speaking of Detroit.. Makes you proud what has happened there huh?

Posted by: Clemenza at October 20, 2013 05:57 AM (70CRT)

5 Woo hoo. Got the extra points.

Posted by: RWC at October 20, 2013 05:58 AM (LpbKr)

6 And the SD stand for Silent Destroyer. I read it in the paper.

Posted by: RWC at October 20, 2013 05:58 AM (LpbKr)

7 Posted by: EROWMER at October 20, 2013 09:55 AM (OONaw) There is about 500 of them floating around. it's Joerg Sprave and his channel is The Slingshot Channel. Love the dudes accent. And i'm sure he is on a shitload of 'lists.'

Posted by: RWC at October 20, 2013 06:01 AM (49nDA)

8 Dear Gunhouse Forum One of my P64's has the slide jammed back nearly all the way due to some defective Russian 9mm. I'm pretty sure I will need to smite the slide with a rubber mallet to free it up. Should I try to hit it forward toward the normal position? Or release the slide stop and try to hit it backward like really violent field strip?

Posted by: toby928© Alabama Alumnus and Native Texan, now with twice the insufferability at October 20, 2013 06:01 AM (QupBk)

9 If you are ever curious about how many times people shoot in self defense Google Shoots intruder Clerk shoots robber Homeowner shoots All these will be in local papers and local tv news only, much like Kermit Gosnell the national media cannot cover local crime stories. There are usually a few a week.

Posted by: traye at October 20, 2013 06:02 AM (wzKBz)

10 And Sprave even built a 'personal massager' slingshot.

Posted by: RWC at October 20, 2013 06:02 AM (49nDA)

11 Weren't the terrorists in "Die Hard" armed w/MP-5s?....couldn't they get Uzis?

Posted by: BignJames at October 20, 2013 06:02 AM (j7iSn)

12 Our friend the H+K MP-5SD

An awesome SMG, I am wondering if they will make an SD version of the UMP-45?

The UMPs are lighter than the MP-5s of equal barrel length

Posted by: sven10077 at October 20, 2013 06:04 AM (9jfyN)

13 I think it was an MP5 that Clancy's "Chavez" fell in love with in either "Clear and Present Danger" or "Rainbow Six." Would love to kick the tires on one of those.

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 20, 2013 06:08 AM (RYVE/)

14 13 nothinglefttolose at October 20, 2013 10:08 AM (RYVE/)

Chavez's job in the piece was door kicking and sentry removal...

clear and present danger's cowboys and drug dealers scenario would make a nice video game.

Posted by: sven10077 at October 20, 2013 06:10 AM (9jfyN)

15 MP5 is awesome. But if I was Carl Weathers I would be pissed. Other teammates are packing 60's, 16's, Milkor MGL, and even a damn minigun. And he's stuck with the Europellet.

Posted by: RWC at October 20, 2013 06:12 AM (LpbKr)

16 David Kopel: The Strange Career of MississippiÂ’s Bans on Gun Carrying http://tinyurl.com/lx45uog "But things took an odd twist the day before HB 2 was slated to go into effect. Several officials of Hinds County (part of the Jackson metropolitan area) filed a motion for a temporary injunction, essentially arguing that re-legalizing open carry was bad policy. The motion was granted on the theory that the new statute was unconstitutionally vague. As pointed out in an article by John Frazer (a former NRA attorney, now in private practice), the new Mississippi definition of Â“concealedÂ” was similar to the definitions in Virginia, Arkansas, Alabama, Colorado, Idaho, Illinois, Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri, New Jersey Ohio and Wisconsin, Delaware and Florida. Much of the opinion seemed to consist of policy arguments against the new law, rather than a careful analysis of the legal standards for unconstitutional vagueness. The Mississippi Supreme Court took the case on interlocutory appeal, and rendered a unanimous decision on August 29, upholding House Bill 2. The Supreme CourtÂ’s decision was quite terse, leading the reader to infer that either: a. The Supreme Court found the trial courtÂ’s reasoning so persuasive that the Supreme Court could not engage it, or b. The Supreme Court fund the trial courtÂ’s reasoning so ridiculous that the Supreme Court chose not to waste time refuting it in detail. Either way, the result marks one more way in Mississippi has decided to discard a legal remnant of Jim Crow, and to instead, in the words of the late Hubert Humphrey, Â“walk forthrightly into the bright sunshine of human rights.Â”"

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 06:14 AM (iUuDU)

17 Also, anyone know if $250 is a decent price for a little Taurus 25 auto? Slightly used. Looks like new. Not sure of model #. Breaks open like an over/under shotgun.

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 20, 2013 06:14 AM (xDlyw)

18 17 nothinglefttolose at October 20, 2013 10:14 AM (xDlyw)

Depends on what you want if for and if you have a CCW.

For a CCW "really concealed" piece a .25 is not the worst choice, but I am not a fan of the .25 ACP's ballistics.

Posted by: sven10077 at October 20, 2013 06:16 AM (9jfyN)

19 Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 20, 2013 10:14 AM (xDlyw) That's a 'tip up' design. Retail is about 300 so you're saving a couple bucks.

Posted by: RWC at October 20, 2013 06:17 AM (LpbKr)

20 8>> Toby, check this place out: http://www.p64resource.com/ I'd try to use a brass drift and rawhide mallet to drive it back. Assuming the cartridge is not nickel plated or steel, the extractor will survive without damage.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at October 20, 2013 06:18 AM (60Vyp)

21 Also, anyone know if $250 is a decent price for a little Taurus 25 auto? Slightly used. Looks like new.
Not sure of model #.

Yes 200.00 tops. You can buy them new for 250.00.

Posted by: Framer at October 20, 2013 06:19 AM (CKkWS)

22 And you can get a LCP for under 250.

Posted by: RWC at October 20, 2013 06:19 AM (LpbKr)

23 Live [in California] With a Foreigner Who DoesnÂ’t Have a Green Card? You Must Keep Your Guns Locked Up http://tinyurl.com/lye9xxn "The law of course also requires people to keep their guns locked up if a housemate or family member has a felony conviction Â— even a nonviolent felony, or one many decades in the past. That itself is too much of an intrusion on the self-defense rights of law-abiding people, it seems to me. But the applicability of the law to people who live with foreigners seems to me to be even harder to justify."

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 06:20 AM (iUuDU)

24 My husband and I went to the open carry rally at the Alamo yesterday. Since I'd been sick, we got there late and missed the featured speakers, which is just as well since I can't stand Alex Jones. I can't believe they invited Captain Chemtrail. Anyway, it was a beautiful day, and pleasantly surreal to be carrying the Christmas Bushmaster all over downtown and getting no reaction from tourists or natives, except the occasional thumbs up. We live in San Antonio, but after the rally had broken up at 2:00 we did the obligatory tourist pics of each other in front of the Alamo, but posing with our "assault weapon". Not one of the tourists or police gave us a second glance. Very odd experience, but fun. I read on the local paper's site that around 3:00 the police did make some of the lingering gun folk leave. The permission to carry the guns at a rally was only temporary.

Posted by: stace NOW what?! at October 20, 2013 06:22 AM (DX63t)

25 Nor mine sven. But in very tight quarters, they work well on elbows (no, not those elbows), knees, temples and under the chin. Aww, I'd probably just lose it in some tragic boating accident or something. CCW? Yes. It starts out "A well regulated militia..."

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 20, 2013 06:23 AM (h1gQR)

26 22 RWC at October 20, 2013 10:19 AM (LpbKr)

and the .380 or 9mm are better calibers than the .25 ACP by far.

Posted by: sven10077 at October 20, 2013 06:23 AM (9jfyN)

27 Gunbroker has a Taurus .25 for 100. 5 days left in the auction.

Posted by: RWC at October 20, 2013 06:23 AM (LpbKr)

28 Easily got the MP5 since I am friends with a former SAS officer and I got to fire his. It made me want one to go with my old H & K Model 91 (in 30

. Then, sadly, the sea kayak trip we made over the Marianas Trench got rough and all was lost.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at October 20, 2013 06:23 AM (hsTmJ)

Does anybody's armed home defense plan include earplugs? If you fire a gun of any size indoors without them, your ears will be ringing for a week.

(So I've heard.)

Posted by: Wm T Sherman at October 20, 2013 06:23 AM (rNCEP)

30 17 I like all my taurii, in fact have one in my pocket right now (holstered of course), but like Sven said, don't really like .25s. Go to buds web site and look up the gun, they usually have several buyer reviews.

Posted by: traye at October 20, 2013 06:25 AM (wzKBz)

31 29 Wm T Sherman at October 20, 2013 10:23 AM (rNCEP)

I took care of that by doing Downtown Hell MOUT training sans earplugs...

now my middle range hearing sucks.

Posted by: sven10077 at October 20, 2013 06:25 AM (9jfyN)

32 Hey Y'all. Wife asked again last night about getting ourselves a nice little handgun. Oh and look, the indoor range not far from here has a groupon for 1 hour of range time with gun rental and 50 rounds of ammo. How convenient. (And they let you swap guns during that hour.)

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 20, 2013 06:25 AM (GaqMa)

33 and the .380 or 9mm are better calibers than the .25 ACP by far. Posted by: sven10077 at October 20, 2013 10:23 AM (9jfyN) Yep. Played with an Crimson Trace fitted LCP yesterday. Super concealable. Probably going to get one sooner or later.

Posted by: RWC at October 20, 2013 06:26 AM (LpbKr)

34 Friend shot his new muzzleloader with 3 charges yesterday. I was behind him, and forgot my ear pro. Ouch.

Posted by: RWC at October 20, 2013 06:28 AM (LpbKr)

35 Thanks for the. 25 help folks.

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 20, 2013 06:28 AM (h1gQR)

36 29 Does anybody's armed home defense plan include earplugs? If you fire a gun of any size indoors without them,your ears will be ringing for a week. (So I've heard.) The Alamo in my home has a baggie of ear plugs taped to the wall. I am not paranoid, I was a navy nuke and we drilled for every possibility however remote. So blame it on the government.

Posted by: traye at October 20, 2013 06:29 AM (wzKBz)

37 Posted by: sven10077 at October 20, 2013 10:23 AM (9jfyN) Lots of .22lr are ballistically superior to .25acp...cheaper too.

Posted by: BignJames at October 20, 2013 06:30 AM (j7iSn)

38 IIRC the Taurus PT25 has a plastic part, the guide rod maybe, that has a reputation for breaking if you shoot it enough. Taurus will replace it for free, but that won't be much comfort if it's broken when you need it. If you really want a tip-up barrel pistol like that pay the extra for a Beretta Bobcat.

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 06:30 AM (iUuDU)

39 stace, Texas law permits open carry of long guns if handled in "a non-threatening manner". So I don't get the "permission" part.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at October 20, 2013 06:30 AM (hsTmJ)

40 I am not paranoid, I was a navy nuke and we drilled for every possibility however remote. So blame it on the government.

Posted by: traye at October 20, 2013 10:29 AM (wzKBz)

I was a Navy Nuke but I keep headphones handy instead of ear plugs.

Posted by: Vic at October 20, 2013 06:31 AM (zZbNF)

41 35 nothinglefttolose at October 20, 2013 10:28 AM (h1gQR)

Always here to help...like others are posting there are .22LR loads with more hitting power than the .25...the .25ACP has all the .45s Rainbow ballistics with none of the THUMP saving grace.

Posted by: sven10077 at October 20, 2013 06:32 AM (9jfyN)

42 29 Does anybody's armed home defense plan include earplugs? If you fire a gun of any size indoors without them,your ears will be ringing for a week. (So I've heard.) Posted by: Wm T Sherman at October 20, 2013 10:23 AM (rNCEP) I figure that either I'm not going to have time to put them in, or I'm going to want all my senses available to identify the threat.

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 06:32 AM (iUuDU)

43 I'm going to CCW a Dardick. Because I'm filthy rich like that.

Posted by: RWC at October 20, 2013 06:34 AM (LpbKr)

44 @45- That's how I figure it too Born Lib.

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 20, 2013 06:35 AM (h1gQR)

45 Posted by: Mr. Dave at October 20, 2013 10:30 AM (hsTmJ) Apparently, San Antonio has an ordinance against carrying guns at a political rally, which they suspended for this event. But you're right, after the rally was over, it should still be legal to carry the guns per state law. I didn't know about it, and I've probably carried concealed at tea party events. The ordinance is probably illegal. State law should supercede it on gun issues.

Posted by: stace NOW what?! at October 20, 2013 06:35 AM (DX63t)

46 Crap!! @42

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 20, 2013 06:35 AM (h1gQR)

47 42 My ear plugs in the Alamo are for wife and kids. I lost most of my hearing to machinery noise and gunfire (and rock n roll)

Posted by: traye at October 20, 2013 06:36 AM (wzKBz)

48 Lockport police catch flak for SAFE Act arrest http://tinyurl.com/kp89c9h "A Town of Lockport man who was a passenger during a traffic stop was charged when he turned over a loaded semiautomatic handgun in a holster from the glove compartment to an officer on Saturday. The gun was legal, but police say the 10 rounds of 9 mm ammunition found in the magazine were not, because they violated the state law that states it is unlawful for any person to knowingly possess a magazine with more than seven rounds. Exemptions are authorized only for firing ranges or Olympic, collegiate or other sanctioned shooting competitions. Active-duty police officers are also exempt."

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 06:37 AM (iUuDU)

49 I thought the comments had entered a final countdown worm hole.

Posted by: traye at October 20, 2013 06:39 AM (wzKBz)

50 And where is everybody? I mean, important folks here but, kinda slow for a gun thread. Must be tailgating at the 6-0 ~~Bears~~ Chiefs game. Hope I did that right. Kinda early for the barrel.

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 20, 2013 06:40 AM (pQdNP)

51 N.H. gas station clerk fired for pulling gun on would-be robber http://tinyurl.com/mkrc3zu "Â“He was very heavily masked and clothed. He came directly in and produced a knife and came around the corner and threatened my life,Â” Mr. Cothran told CBS Boston. ThatÂ’s when the clerk pulled out his Ruger pistol, causing the thief to retreat, the report said. Mr. Cothran, who has a gun permit, said he carried it to protect himself against the rash of robberies in the area, even though carrying a firearm is against his companyÂ’s policy. Â“I knew exactly what I was doing. I made a conscious choice to protect my life and put myself in a situation where I would have to find new employment,Â” he told the station. Â“I really donÂ’t feel that I did anything this noteworthy. I just wanted to get home to my family; thatÂ’s it. I would rather find a new job than either be in a hospital bed or in a coffin.Â” Nashua Police Lt. Denis Linehan said, Â“the clerk acted appropriately. He did fear for his life. He was in close proximity to a deadly weapon.Â”"

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 06:42 AM (iUuDU)

52 traye, it's going to be a lot noisier at the business end. Maybe leave some ear plugs hanging on the porch with an explanation note. Just to be helpful.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at October 20, 2013 06:43 AM (hsTmJ)

53 Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 10:37 AM (iUuDU) That should be thrown out. The police had no right to inspect the gun to begin with.

Posted by: RWC at October 20, 2013 06:44 AM (LpbKr)

54 And to supplement 51 Eugene Volokh: May Employer Fire Employee Based on EmployeeÂ’s Reasonable On-the-Job Self-Defense? http://tinyurl.com/peqns3d

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 06:44 AM (iUuDU)

55 @52- That! That right there is classic Horde.

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 20, 2013 06:46 AM (pQdNP)

56 Wow. You aim a shotgun like a rifle? This guy used, of course, the worst possible scattergun to try to make the case for an AR15 being superior to a shotgun for home defense. He said so many things that are wrong it is laughable.

Posted by: Butternut at October 20, 2013 06:46 AM (+8yte)

57 The Taurus PT25 the fellow wanted to buy is not a bad gun, now that Taurus has worked out production bugs. They had, in the past, a sine wave quality control, but got better and better. As to 25acp, surprisingly it packs just a little more steam out of a 2" barrel as opposed to 22lr. You also have the advantage of a semi rimmed cartridge vice rimmed, enhancing feed. I agree with everyone when we have available many micro 380's available, but I still stick with my old Beretta 950 b (25acp, no safety, inertia firing pin so you can have a bean in the spout, and nine rounds) for every day stick in the pocket carry. If I had to advise on a new micro pistol for ccw, I guess I'd go with the Ruger LCP.

Posted by: Bill at October 20, 2013 06:47 AM (uvyrw)

58 Later all. Taking the nephews to their first racisty racist football game. Hope CPS isn't called for exposing them to 'Redskins.' The Redskins gameplay should be punishment enough.

Posted by: RWC at October 20, 2013 06:47 AM (LpbKr)

59 Live [in California] With a Foreigner Who DoesnÂ’t Have a Green Card? You Must Keep Your Guns Locked Up

...the foreign national known to be breaking federal law is no problem, but self-defense is.

Yeah, makes sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_mrNQBLSMU

Posted by: HeatherRadish™, drinking heavily at October 20, 2013 06:48 AM (hO8IJ)

60 I have lived in ND, NJ, VA and TX. You only hear about those self defense stories in TX. The other states have guns. Are instances of using guns for self defense really not occurring other places? Or are they just not reported because narrative?

Posted by: Thunderb at October 20, 2013 06:49 AM (zOTsN)

61 @52 you are far more thoughtful a person than I.

Posted by: traye at October 20, 2013 06:50 AM (wzKBz)

62 Sharyl Attkisson: Deadly drug cartel shootout with Mexico police linked to [BATFE] "grenade-walking" scandal http://tinyurl.com/ktte7v2

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 06:50 AM (iUuDU)

63 Stace, Thanks for the first hand account of the gun rally in SA. I'm in Austin and was wondering about it since there was very little about it online and I don't watch TV. I was going to go out today but I had about 40 injections in each hand about a week ago and I don't think I'm up to it yet. In the spring when my treatments are over I'm getting out more for sure. Have you tried La Ventana Range in the Buda/Kyle area yet?

Posted by: lindafell at October 20, 2013 06:50 AM (PGO8C)

64 Not sure of model #. Breaks open like an over/under shotgun. Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 20, 2013 10:14 AM (xDlyw) I have this little 25. Kind of cool, but worthless. http://tinyurl.com/c5rkpgu Don't waste your money on a 25. Someone one said shooting someone with a 25 is only going to piss them off, not stop them.

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 20, 2013 06:51 AM (0FSuD)

65 imagine if some conservative tried to argue in front of the supreme court that the 14th amendments due process clause>right to privacy>right to abortion is not an individual right like the leftist revisionist history types try to claim about the 2nd amendment imagine the outcry and liberal pants wetting that would happen if consevatives pushed for the same kind of limits on abortion that the democrats try to apply to firearms like background checks waiting periods taxes fees training classes permits that have to be renewed registration databases and on and on and on the 2nd amendment is some of the clearest language in the entire document hats off to all the people from the great state of texas who went open carry at the alamo

Posted by: sound awake at October 20, 2013 06:52 AM (ICZYk)

66 I don't much care for the current crop of 3-D printed guns.

Try this design:
put one cartridge into the print chamber
build a gun around it
shoot one time
throw it away.

No pounding the spent casing out with a rod, no careful checking after each shot for cracks in the chamber, no unscrewing the barrel to re-load. If you want to shoot six times then print six of them.

and to all the wicked awful people who read this and will actually implement my idea, you're welcome.

Posted by: Storm Saxon's Gall Bladder at October 20, 2013 06:53 AM (Thlui)

67 And related to 62 because of Fast and Furious and the Obama Administration persecution of whistleblowers: "he Justice Department finds itself on the defensive after a training manual surfaced that suggests federal agents could face a firing squad for leaking government secrets. The online manual for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Â— complete with a photo of a turn-of-the-century firing squad Â— was obtained by The Washington Times from a concerned federal law enforcement official, and it immediately drew protests from watchdogs who said it showed a lack of sensitivity to gun violence and the continuing hostile environment toward whistleblowers." http://tinyurl.com/lddctvd

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 06:53 AM (iUuDU)

68 Sometimes I feel like I should make a confession. My name is traye and I haven't shot a gun in a month, but I hope to do better this week. No really, I promise to shoot next weekend, trout and flounder (and red drum) fishing be Damned.

Posted by: traye at October 20, 2013 06:55 AM (wzKBz)

69 GUN thread commenters are like Republicans: they spend far too much time and effort nit-picking those on the same side, and ignore the far more dangerous menace that's really out there, from the other side.

Posted by: Bluto at October 20, 2013 06:56 AM (C8V2U)

70 Oh man, the MP5 is sweet! It's like the next best thing to getting a handy from Kate Upton using cocoa butter. Easy shooting, even on the pewpewpew setting. I picked up the Umarex version because that's about the closest I'll get to owning the real thing.

Posted by: EC at October 20, 2013 06:56 AM (doBIb)

71 60 Narrative. Plus you have to remember that if nobody actually gets shot, ie. the criminal runs or surrenders, it's not news. If it bleeds it leads.

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 06:58 AM (iUuDU)

72 17 Also, anyone know if $250 is a decent price for a little Taurus 25 auto? Slightly used. Looks like new.

------------------------------

You can buy the Beretta it's based on for that or less, and it's a Beretta. I won't touch Tauruses.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 20, 2013 06:59 AM (celt+)

73 http://tinyurl.com/k5qoark "With 2,541,460 permits issued and 168 revoked for revocations for firearm violations, the rate of Florida concealed handgun permits that have been revoked for firearm violations is only 0.0066 percent."

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 06:59 AM (iUuDU)

74 70 Oh man, the MP5 is sweet! It's like the next best thing to getting a handy from Kate Upton using cocoa butter. Easy shooting, even on the pewpewpew setting. I picked up the Umarex version because that's about the closest I'll get to owning the real thing. I have one of these. PS 90. With 50 round clips, now if I could just find some damn ammo. http://tinyurl.com/354hud

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 20, 2013 06:59 AM (0FSuD)

75 "My name is traye and I haven't shot a gun in a month, but I hope to do better this week." There is a support group for that. We meet at the range.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at October 20, 2013 07:01 AM (hsTmJ)

76 69 GUN thread commenters are like Republicans: they spend far too much time and effort nit-picking those on the same side, and ignore the far more dangerous menace that's really out there, from the other side.

------------------

Right, because this is the place to engage anti-gunners and legislators.

Stop nit-picking.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 20, 2013 07:01 AM (celt+)

77 @60 Here's an Ohio example: Ohio Resident Shoots and Kills Man Suspected in Numerous Burglaries http://tinyurl.com/n875dqz

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 07:01 AM (iUuDU)

78 And one for Alabama: Auburn, AL Homeowner Shoots 1 of 2 Burglars, Leading to Their Capture http://tinyurl.com/m94q4q9

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 07:03 AM (iUuDU)

79 And one for Alabama: Auburn, AL Homeowner Shoots 1 of 2 Burglars, Leading to Their Capture http://tinyurl.com/m94q4q9 Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 11:03 AM (iUuDU) After further research it may be discovered they were Alabama fans. Thing get pretty heated down there.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 20, 2013 07:04 AM (XIxXP)

80 My sister was mugged in the 80s in LA. Guy shot her in the hand with a BB gun. Scared her terribly. She asked the responding police officers if she should take a self defense class or learn martial arts to protect herself. They told her to get a gun. Prolly wouldn't be that honest now.

Posted by: Thunderb at October 20, 2013 07:04 AM (zOTsN)

81 Posted by: lindafell at October 20, 2013 10:50 AM (PGO8C) Thanks, no I haven't been to La Ventana, but drive through Kyle fairly regularly to Austin. Googling it, it seems like a good place to go out and kind of do your own thing at the range. That sounds like a nasty hand problem you've got there. I hope it heals up ASAP. I'm such an old bag, it seems to me my hands have been getting weaker in recent years. I'm finding that taking apart and cleaning guns is good exercise for them.

Posted by: stace NOW what?! at October 20, 2013 07:04 AM (DX63t)

82 They told her to get a gun. Prolly wouldn't be that honest now. Posted by: Thunderb at October 20, 2013 11:04 AM (zOTsN) Did she? Get a gun that is?

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 20, 2013 07:05 AM (XIxXP)

83 Bluto, if you're referring to the replies on my Taurus .25 question, I didn't see anyone as nit picking me. I asked the folks to put me some knowledge. There's a fair amount of that here. They were gracious enough to take the time to do so.

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 20, 2013 07:05 AM (AoY8i)

84 Of course then there is the GSG-5. And these idiots illegally modified it with a collapsible stock. Then put it on YouTube.
http://youtu.be/9jhEnx0-83k

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 20, 2013 07:06 AM (kH//i)

85 With 50 round clips

50 round decorative shower curtain clips? 50 round key rings? What if they're slightly oval - does that count? Why would you put these things on a firearm?

Posted by: Ghola Thufir Hawat at October 20, 2013 07:06 AM (eAY4A)

86 Supreme Court to decide if buying a gun for a lawful person is a Â‘straw purchaseÂ’ http://tinyurl.com/mqdepez "The Supreme Court decided Tuesday to hear the case of a Virginia man who bought a gun for his uncle and was then convicted of committing a Â“straw purchase.Â” The high court will determine whether it is a crime to buy a gun with the intent to resell to another lawful person." Yes really.

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 07:07 AM (iUuDU)

87 OSP. Who were the Alabama fans? The burglars or the homeowner?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 20, 2013 07:08 AM (kH//i)

88 No. She did not get a gun. She is afraid of guns. And a lib to boot. Ironically her 17 year old son wants to be in the Marines and then go into LE.

Posted by: Thunderb at October 20, 2013 07:08 AM (zOTsN)

89 In NJ it's narrative. All stories are very local. You only time you hear about them is when the shooter gets charged with something. Mostly you read about the shooting, but no follow up. I'm assuming cuz the shooter didn't get charged.

Posted by: Trainer's looking for a Militia at October 20, 2013 07:08 AM (5M5r7)

90 Yes really. Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 11:07 AM (iUuDU) It's the nudge. Peeling our rights away a little bit at a time.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 20, 2013 07:08 AM (XIxXP)

91 Here's an Ohio example: Ohio Resident Shoots and Kills Man Suspected in Numerous Burglaries http://tinyurl.com/n875dqz Posted by: BornLib That shooting took place in Portsmouth, Ohio. Portsmouth, in Scioto County, is a hotbead of meth use and addiction. My bet would be that the burglar was a meth -head.

Posted by: Severe Conservative riding Orca at October 20, 2013 07:08 AM (v6hyJ)

92 Thanks for the video that was really good.

Posted by: Steve Adams at October 20, 2013 07:09 AM (JHMYd)

93 "The Supreme Court decided Tuesday to hear the case of a Virginia man who bought a gun for his uncle and was then convicted of committing a Â“straw purchase.Â” The high court will determine whether it is a crime to buy a gun with the intent to resell to another lawful person." Santa Claus better watch his ass.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at October 20, 2013 07:09 AM (hsTmJ)

94 If you do not Hickok45, I do not like you. Biden is the one recommending the double barrel, which is clearly inferior, which was the point.

Posted by: nip at October 20, 2013 07:09 AM (jI23+)

95 Anybody ever done a barrel assembly swap on an AR receiver? Do I need more than a barrel nut wrench, handguard removal tool, torque wrench and vise block?

It appears headspace is a matter of luck - either the bolt I put in it headspaces nicely or I'll have to swap components until it does, but usually correctly-speced components will work. Correct?

Figure I'll ask here before I swim in the swamps of arf-com.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 20, 2013 07:09 AM (celt+)

96 OSP. Who were the Alabama fans? The burglars or the homeowner? Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 20, 2013 11:08 AM (kH//i) The burglars, cause if he lived in Auburn he apparently filled out the home ownership questionnaire correctly.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 20, 2013 07:09 AM (XIxXP)

97 BloombergÂ’s fingerprints all over IllinoisÂ’ Â“3-year mandatory minimumÂ” proposal http://tinyurl.com/pg5mlbx "New information suggests that Mayor Bloomberg and his personally-funded Mayors Against Illegal Guns national gun control organization have teamed up with Mayor Rahm Emanuel and are indeed the people behind the new proposal in Illinois to slap anyone with a gun with a 3-year mandatory minimum prison sentence."

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 07:10 AM (iUuDU)

98 Shooting an MP5SG in .45 is an epiphany. On a quiet range, you can hear the slide moving, the paper tearing, and the cases tinkling across the floor. The firing noise isn't so much erased, but controlled and channeled away from you and the now dead guy.

Posted by: Jean at October 20, 2013 07:11 AM (CMlD4)

99 Did anyone watch that two hour dateline the other night where the guy chased the carload of men that were screwing with him and his family at his rural property. He chased them down and killed one and wounded a couple with his AR? It was very interesting.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 20, 2013 07:12 AM (XIxXP)

100 I thought all mandatory sentencing was racist or something. When memes collide.

Posted by: Thunderb at October 20, 2013 07:12 AM (zOTsN)

101 Stakes grow in new Colorado gun control recall effort http://tinyurl.com/n5s9u6v "Organizers have received official go-ahead to start gathering signatures in a bid to oust state Sen. Evie Hudak, a Democrat from the Denver suburb of Westminster, who was the target of a failed recall petition drive earlier this year. The group, certified by ColoradoÂ’s secretary of state, has until Dec. 3 to collect just over 18,900 signatures to force a vote. The stakes: control of the state Senate, which Democrats hold by a tenuous 18-17 edge."

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 07:12 AM (iUuDU)

102 Grrrrumble. Excuse me. Sorry. That was my stomach. Must put phone down and put bacon in pan. Thanks again.

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 20, 2013 07:12 AM (BfZ1r)

103 The stakes: control of the state Senate, which Democrats hold by a tenuous 18-17 edge." Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 11:12 AM (iUuDU) The transplanted left coasties vs the locals. It's interesting.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 20, 2013 07:14 AM (XIxXP)

104 I replaced the rear sight on my Yugo SKS with a Williams peep. I unscrewed the peep insert, which left a larger ring that layers perfectly over the front sight hood. Just line up the two rings and place the post on target. Nifty.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 20, 2013 07:15 AM (celt+)

105 84 Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 20, 2013 11:06 AM (kH//i)

It'd be a good test case if someone had the balls to let the ATF guys go after them.

The reason Bubba'd lose would be the removable nature of the telescoping buttstock IMHO as it is no more "illegal" the M-4 Buttstock I have on my AR-15 20" except for the removable nature.

GSG was silly for not incorporating a non removable Telescoping Butt.

Posted by: sven10077 at October 20, 2013 07:16 AM (9jfyN)

106 NJ's 2002 smart-gun law could take effect soon, limit supply http://tinyurl.com/nyl689x "For years, theyÂ’ve existed only in science fiction and the archives of the New Jersey Legislature: handguns that fire only in the grip of an authorized user. Michael Recce of the New Jersey Institute of Technology, inventor of a 'smart gun' technology, holding a prototype of the gun with grip recognition technology at a 2004 news conference. FILE PHOTO Michael Recce of the New Jersey Institute of Technology, inventor of a 'smart gun' technology, holding a prototype of the gun with grip recognition technology at a 2004 news conference. And yet these so-called smart guns soon could be the only kind sold legally in New Jersey under a state law that has languished on the books for a decade. The law, which requires the stateÂ’s gun dealers to exclusively sell smart guns within three years after the first one hits the market, has been largely forgotten since the Legislature adopted it in 2002. But it could be dusted off as early as this year as technology finally catches up to the vision of lawmakers at a time when the debate over gun control is more combative and divisive than at any time in recent history." "Â“New JerseyÂ’s smart-gun law is as dumb as it gets,Â” Bach, of West Milford, said in a statement. Â“It forces you to use an unproven technology to defend your life, and then exempts the state from liability when the gun goes Â‘clickÂ’ instead of Â‘bang.Â’ If itÂ’s such a great idea, then law enforcement shouldnÂ’t be exempt, and the free market should be allowed to determine its viability.Â”"

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 07:16 AM (iUuDU)

107 butternut, I'm far more likely to take the video's advice than yours.

Posted by: KG[/i][/b] at October 20, 2013 07:16 AM (IPz9m)

108 Police smell meth, raid home, kill 80-year-old man, find no meth http://tinyurl.com/lrdp8sa "Police found no meth, nor evidence of a meth operation, inside the house. They did find marijuana Â— in PateÂ’s sonÂ’s room. The sheriffÂ’s department insists that the marijuana vindicates the raid."

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 07:21 AM (iUuDU)

109 50 round decorative shower curtain clips? 50 round key rings? What if they're slightly oval - does that count? Why would you put these things on a firearm? Makes the magazine look "pretty". Any more questions?

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 20, 2013 07:22 AM (0FSuD)

110 98 Jean at October 20, 2013 11:11 AM (CMlD4)

Jean that is why I am wondering if the Wiz Kidz from Wiesbaden are gonna make a purpsose built UMP with the nice integral Suppression build of an SD.

Figure'd you'd know.

Posted by: sven10077 at October 20, 2013 07:22 AM (9jfyN)

111 Woman-I've-Been-Sleeping-With used to be in a leading federal detective agency, and her boss was the district armorer, so they had to put on the mandatory practice and qualification sessions. I would say her inspectors had better-than-average-LEO handgun skills, with the usual smattering of compensating attitude and leaving pistols in the motel drawer.

But this one time, at the bandcamp, a visiting official of another more famous department wanted to fire their MP5. Bad luck to offend A Certain Agnecy, so they said fine. He casually picked it up with finger inside the hole, and the gosh-darned thing went and ND'ed on him, in rapid succession. Would you believe those little bitty bullets could cut a pic-a-nic table completely in half? Well they can.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at October 20, 2013 07:22 AM (JNUY4)

112 "My gunsmith says the barrel swap is the phase of the build that he sincerely prefers the pros to handle.

Posted by: sven10077"

------------------

I hear that. Plan B is to price the job and see if it costs less than buying the tools. I only plan on doing two (barrel off one receiver and put on another, new barrel put on first receiver), so I may be better off going that route. Good advice. Thanks.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 20, 2013 07:23 AM (celt+)

113 California: Living Proof of the Slippery Slope of Rational Apathy http://tinyurl.com/khtvn84 "The California slippery slope of anti-freedom legislation Â– whatever the political agenda Â– has been a model for the rest of the nation. This is the ceaseless, incremental strategy of the California gun control movement that continues to this day. On gun control, thankfully, the rest of the nation has mostly failed to follow. But here in the Golden State, the Golden Rule of gun control has always been to swipe freedoms one small step at a time. Over, and over, and over again."

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 07:23 AM (iUuDU)

114 http://tinyurl.com/kdvqk5h The nonprofit, nonpartisan Judicial Watch reported that it filed a Freedom of Information Law (FOIL) lawsuit with the New York State Supreme Court requesting that the office of New York CityÂ’s Mayor Michael Bloomberg be ordered by a judge Â“to produce all records of communications between the Office of the Mayor, the director of Mayors Against Illegal Guns (MAIG), and U.S. Vice President Joe Biden. Â“We have good reason to suspect that New York taxpayers have been forced to foot the bill for Mayor BloombergÂ’s anti-gun group,Â” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton.

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 07:25 AM (iUuDU)

115 Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 11:21 AM (iUuDU)

Police doing a lot of killing these days. Wonder how long it'll be before they raid a house that shoots back...

Posted by: KG[/i][/b] at October 20, 2013 07:25 AM (IPz9m)

116 Folks, when you fire into the air, you can't afford to miss. Use a shotgun.

Posted by: Joey B at October 20, 2013 07:26 AM (FcR7P)

117 @106 Oh good Lord. People need to get out of NJ and leave the voters who elected those clowns.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at October 20, 2013 07:27 AM (hsTmJ)

118 109 BornLib at October 20, 2013 11:21 AM (iUuDU)

Puts me to mind of the case in Los Angeles where the Law acted like a real estate developers repo team...except uh the guy owned the land...

back in the 90s and the name escapes me now I argued this in college the LAPD executed a no-knock for a "criminal marijuana trafficker" guy was IIRC 83 years old was on prime real estate this is right after "drug lords" could get their shit seized....

long story short he whips out a .22 the cops had never identified themselves, they found no grow lab and a few stray non THC impregnated hemp weeds in his woods...

they shot him 13 times.

Even the Cali courts admitted that the only proper conclusion was LAPD was hot for the guys' property.

None of this is new.

Posted by: sven10077 at October 20, 2013 07:27 AM (9jfyN)

119 @114 Fuck CA. The earthquake from hell can not come soon enough.

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 20, 2013 07:28 AM (0FSuD)

120 http://tinyurl.com/m79udzy They talk about 'Gun Safety' but don't want anyone to practice and train... The Second Amendment supporters responsible for developing Tiger Swan, a relatively new but well-used Cumberland County outdoor range, have done everything right. The operation was recruited by county officials in 2008 to locate in Cumberland County and began operations in 2010. After years of work and at great expense they have exceeded the numerous difficult requirements now required for establishing new outdoor shooting ranges. For their range they have: Obtained almost 1000 acres of agricultural land, five times the 200 acres required by county rules. Carefully and professionally engineered their site to contain all Â“Surface Danger ZonesÂ” on the property itself. Maintained access control. Secured liability insurance of $5 million, exceeding the required $2 million. Hired an engineer to plan and certify that the range to complies with EPA Â“Best Management Practices. Since opening three years ago, a small group of residents has sued Cumberland County to revoke Tiger Swan's zoning, effectively Â“moving the goalpostsÂ”. Although this group cites concern over noise, danger from stray rounds, and unsubstantiated claims of reduced property values, it is clear what they are really attacking: the right to use firearms in Cumberland County. While fighting in the courts, Tiger Swan has reapplied for an operating permit under revised County rules established by Commissioners in June, 2013. The Commissioners will meet this coming Monday, October 21 to decide if the permit will be granted. Denial of this permit will eliminate training opportunities for citizens and law-enforcement officers, as well as cause a chilling effect on range development everywhere in the state. If this first-class operation can be Â“run out of townÂ” by the gun grabbers, anyone can.

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 07:29 AM (iUuDU)

121 Fuck CA.

The earthquake from hell can not come soon enough.

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 20, 2013 11:28 AM (0FSuD)

I live there.

Tbh, the San Andreas is not enough, we need the Juan De Fuca to join as well. Think of it as SMODmini for the left coast.

Posted by: KG[/i][/b] at October 20, 2013 07:29 AM (IPz9m)

122 "The sheriffÂ’s department insists that the marijuana vindicates the raid."

----------------

Well, sure. Pot is a very dangerous drug that kills thousands of people and causes widespread misery. That's why it's illegal, like alcohol.

Er, wait. What I mean is, it's dangerous because it's a "gateway drug." It leads to use of harder drugs, like alcohol does, which is why alcohol is illegal.

Er, wait...

I give up. Anyway, that's why I keep a gun. To defend myself against dangerous pot-heads on their violent pot-sprees. It's actually a t-shirt cannon that shoots diversionary Twinkies.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 20, 2013 07:30 AM (celt+)

123 Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 20, 2013 11:12 AM (XIxXP) I watched it...guy was a moron....deserved his 50 to life IMO

Posted by: BignJames at October 20, 2013 07:32 AM (j7iSn)

124 http://tinyurl.com/l6d6nwv California - Brown Vetoes Some And Signs Some "With three days to go, Gov. Jerry Brown (D-CA) signed some of the many gun control bills on his desk and vetoed the rest. While vetoing the worst gun control bill (SB 374) that would have banned virtually all semi-automatic rifles with detachable magazines, he did sign AB 711 which mandates a phase-out of all lead ammo for hunting by 2019."

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 07:33 AM (iUuDU)

125 I watched it...guy was a moron....deserved his 50 to life IMO Posted by: BignJames at October 20, 2013 11:32 AM (j7iSn) I agree, I was with him right up until he had their plate # and didn't break off the chase.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 20, 2013 07:37 AM (XIxXP)

126 Obama administration thinks owning 7 firearms is evidence of terrorist activity. Is this just the Obama administration's effort to make gun ownership difficult and costly? http://tinyurl.com/mlmroa6 "So owning 7 firearms (4 pistols, 1 shotgun, and 2 rifles) is evidence of terrorist activity? The Department of Homeland Security and the FBI warn state and local law enforcement agencies to look out for people in possession of Â“large amountsÂ” of weapons and ammunition, describing the discovery of Â“unusual amountsÂ” of weapons as a potential indicator of criminal or terrorist activity. Is this just the Obama administration's effort to make gun ownership difficult and costly?"

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 07:39 AM (iUuDU)

127 Oops...strike the moron.....guy was an idiot.

Posted by: BignJames at October 20, 2013 07:40 AM (j7iSn)

128 Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 20, 2013 11:37 AM (XIxXP) If someone is allegedly firing at you.....while you're chasing them...do you continue to chase them?

Posted by: BignJames at October 20, 2013 07:42 AM (j7iSn)

129 It canÂ’t be a Smart Gun when it was designed by Idiots http://tinyurl.com/l3l8xon "Once equipped with chip-based intelligence, weapons and weapon systems can be networked with computers. In this way, it will be possible to log the use of arms and ammunition in detail, flexibly control this use, and evaluate it in multiple dimensions."

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 07:43 AM (iUuDU)

130 Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 11:29 AM (iUuDU) This in NC. In fact, Main Post and most of Fort Bragg is located in Cumberland County.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at October 20, 2013 07:48 AM (rrokN)

131 "he did sign AB 711 which mandates a phase-out of all lead ammo for hunting by 2019." Switch to depleted uranium.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at October 20, 2013 07:49 AM (hsTmJ)

132 Why does it seem that there's no bulk 22lr ammo to be found? Why has the supply dried up?

Posted by: Havedash at October 20, 2013 07:53 AM (ToMJU)

133 I have this friend looking to buy a Beretta 1301, anything I need to tell him.

Posted by: nip at October 20, 2013 08:03 AM (jI23+)

134 133 Why does it seem that there's no bulk 22lr ammo to be found? Why has the supply dried up? Posted by: Havedash at October 20, 2013 11:53 AM (ToMJU) Because factory made 22lr is the only source. Centerfire can be reloaded, which broadens the supply choices. Lots of variations re: bullets, powder etc.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at October 20, 2013 08:14 AM (MBqvE)

135 133 Why does it seem that there's no bulk 22lr ammo to be found? Why has the supply dried up? Posted by: Havedash at October 20, 2013 11:53 AM (ToMJU) It's out there...it's just $$$+.....gouging.

Posted by: BignJames at October 20, 2013 08:16 AM (j7iSn)

136 134 I have this friend looking to buy a Beretta 1301, anything I need to tell him. Posted by: nip at October 20, 2013 12:03 PM (jI23+) http://tinyurl.com/krv7og7

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 08:29 AM (iUuDU)

137 136 133 Why does it seem that there's no bulk 22lr ammo to be found? Why has the supply dried up? Posted by: Havedash at October 20, 2013 11:53 AM (ToMJU) It's out there...it's just $$$+.....gouging. Posted by: BignJames at October 20, 2013 12:16 PM (j7iSn) Not gouging enough. Retail prices were low enough that people just cleaned them out and now resellers are the ones setting the prices.

Posted by: BornLib at October 20, 2013 08:34 AM (iUuDU)

138 KG, I didn't advise that you shouldn't drink the punch. I just noted that there was a turd in the punch bowl.

Posted by: Butternut at October 20, 2013 08:47 AM (+8yte)

139 This, is a shotgun.... http://tinyurl.com/khyevnq

Posted by: Beto at October 20, 2013 08:49 AM (MhA4j)

140 I loved the AR 15 and shotgun video. Shotguns don't spread that much unless they be cut (sawed off) which is illegal. The Ar15 is a cat and rat rifle. I won't count how many times I have been on the range with a T 53, or an M44 (Russian 30-06) and them AR 15 guys packed it up and went on home. Wimps! That will shoot straight thru a tree or a brick wall, kill the bad guy on the other side..like an M-14 (30

. I guess the "gummit" adopted the M-16 just to play nice, although they say the AMMO is lighter.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at October 20, 2013 08:53 AM (xwPSX)

141 That looked like a reproduction coach gun of some flavor and probably had no choke. 00 buck is not known for its patterning characteristics. Too big a shot for hallway work anyway.

Posted by: Butternut at October 20, 2013 09:24 AM (+8yte)

142

Posted by: sven10077 at October 20, 2013 11:20 AM (9jfyN)

I have all the tools but have not changed the barrel myself, yet. Headspace is critical. Fortunatley, my shooting buddy is an engineer and understands all that stuff way better than I do. There is a gauge you need to measure it, but thats when I stopped thinking about it until it is actually time to do the deed.

Posted by: Hammer at October 20, 2013 09:31 AM (5buGz)

143 Technically that is an MP5-SD3.

MP5-SD3 and MP5-SD6 are silenced MP5's with retractable stock, the difference is the SD3 has a standard trigger group (auto, single, safety) and the SD6 has a SEF trigger group which includes the above plus a 3-round burst option.
The gun is incredibly controllable and spectacular for target acquisition and the ability to service targets quickly. Completely out of reach for the normal shooter. The gun requires class 3 license and a pretty large pile of cash with Ben Franklin's picture on the front.
Which is sad since it is a spectacular experience in every respect. The semi-auto civilian lookalike is the HK-SP89 or the HK-94. But you can't put a retractable stock on the SP-89 legally so the SP-89 ends up being most similar to the plain HK-MP5-K.
HK remains the gun of choice for many due to ease of use and purity of function.

Posted by: Hammer at October 20, 2013 09:32 AM (96zHV)

144 I used a rubber mallet and I got the slide to move enough on my P64 to see that the problem is that the barrel is bulged. Knowing that, I can see it on the inside of the barrel as well. I have a spare barrel in my parts bin, but I'm not sure what will be involved in repairing the weapon. I may just throw the whole thing in the parts bin and move on.

Posted by: toby928© Alabama Alumnus and Native Texan, now with twice the insufferability at October 20, 2013 11:10 AM (QupBk)

145 Btw, it was a load of Silver Bear that broke the pistol. I've had no problem with the Brown Bear or the PPU brass.

Posted by: toby928© Alabama Alumnus and Native Texan, now with twice the insufferability at October 20, 2013 11:10 AM (QupBk)

146 Working the incident backwards in my mind, I may have had a squib, which would jive with what I see. Lucky I didn't put an eye out.

Posted by: toby928© Alabama Alumnus and Native Texan, now with twice the insufferability at October 20, 2013 11:15 AM (QupBk)

147

Hi all! Hopefully this post isn't totally dead yet, guess this is what I get for sleeping in.

Dunham's keep listing Bushmaster Carbon 15's (Base model with throw away red-dot for $700 and the Optics Ready Carbine with milled gas block for $850ish) and I just can not tell if they're a good deal or not. Most reviews came before the panic so that's not very helpful, and I can't find one source that have used both and done a comparision. Mostly I just want to know if the ORC is worth the extra 150-200 more, and if that's a fair price for an AR-15 right now?

Also what would be very helpful is the Horde's opinions on Bushmaster in general? Going to the forums for research, the people who own them seem to love them, and the people who don't seem to trash the brand and these guns specifically. I don't know if that's just general internet love/hate reaction or what.

Forum people also said (one/two years ago now) that they're overpriced that you could get one of the smaller companies' build that would be better quality for the same price. Any one have ideas if true at all?

Thanks for any and all help!

Posted by: CaveJohnson at October 20, 2013 11:32 AM (DzLTB)

148

95 Headspace is ABSOLUTELY NOT a matter of luck- it's preset in the barrel-chamber-bolt relationship. It is a NON-ISSUE in AR's as long as you are using mil-spec parts. And yes, I have done this menny menny times

You also want a vise block for the upper

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 11:42 AM (b7yum)

149

108 I will do your barrel swaps all day long and you should too. It's EASSSY!!! As long as you have the right tools...

Headspace in an AR is set by the chamber lugs and bolt. As long as the parts are milspec it can't be wrong. To prove this, ask yourself and the "experts" what they would do if the headspace was wrong? It's not adjustable...

They'd replace parts to fix it (although it pretty much never happens)... which would only prove that THE PARTS WEREN'T MILSPEC. Do you really think that the manufacturers can't hold their components to tight enough tolerances to keep AR headspace a non-issue??? What year is it again?

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 11:48 AM (b7yum)

150 141 My friend, who has been in the Marines in combat all over the world, tells me that the destruction the 5.56 round does to a human body is unbelievable. Just blows off big chunks of shoulders and whatnot. Cats and rats not withstanding

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 11:55 AM (b7yum)

151 148 Do NOT get a plastic AR. My friend's kid was playing with a plastic lower and broke it. The regular aluminum is cheap enough. S and W MP-15 is a million times better and just as cheap and available

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 11:57 AM (b7yum)

152 "Dunham's keep listing Bushmaster Carbon 15's (Base model with throw away red-dot for $700 and the Optics Ready Carbine with milled gas block for $850ish) and I just can not tell if they're a good deal or not."

--------------

It's not. Polymer AR's have a tendency to crack at the stock fixture point. For $700, you can get a SW MP15 Sport with Magpul rear sight. I have one and it is excellent. It's not the screaming deal it was when it had the 5R barrel, but it's still an awesome buy. It doesn't have a forward assist (who cares?) or a dust cover for the ejection port (I don't live where it's dusty, and I'm not dropping Tangos in the 'Stan, so I don't care about that, either). Check it out.

If the dust cover and FA are important to you, the ORC should serve you well, and $850 sounds good, although you'll have to add the cost of sights to that. Personally I would still go with the Smith.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 20, 2013 12:06 PM (celt+)

153 BTW, at $850 plus the cost of the sights, you're getting awfully close to the price of a Colt 6920 at Wal-Mart.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 20, 2013 12:11 PM (celt+)

154 153 I would NOT get an AR without a dust cover, any more than i would buy a car without a windshield or leave my mouth open working under a garbage truck. Whatever (little) money you save it's not worth it. Unless you just want a range queen. Do you really want a windy day blowing a bunch of crap into your action and disabling your weapon?

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 12:11 PM (b7yum)

155 154 Wahhh. Not at MY walmart

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 12:12 PM (b7yum)

156 "153 I would NOT get an AR without a dust cover, any more than i would buy a car without a windshield or leave my mouth open working under a garbage truck. Whatever (little) money you save it's not worth it. Unless you just want a range queen. Do you really want a windy day blowing a bunch of crap into your action and disabling your weapon?"

----------------

Well, I'm not a soldier, so if I'm not on a range of some sort, I'm not shooting it. Does the dust cover automatically close between shots? Because if it doesn't, a strong wind is still blowing a bunch of crap into your action. Besides, I'm in Maine, the only thing that's going to get blow into the action is possibly a maple leaf.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 20, 2013 12:21 PM (celt+)

157 157 I'm in CA. and it happens all the time. My opinion is based on my experiences. Nothing personal and I hope it works for you

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 12:24 PM (b7yum)

158 Anyways get an upper vise block and a lower vise block (Amazon) and some roll pin punches and you'll never have to see a gunsmith about an AR again. It's RETARDEDLY easy to build.

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 12:27 PM (b7yum)

159 158 157 I'm in CA. and it happens all the time. My opinion is based on my experiences. Nothing personal and I hope it works for you

-------------------

For sure, if I lived anywhere dusty like Cali or Texas or something, it would have been a huge consideration.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 20, 2013 12:33 PM (celt+)

160 Hmm, now I'm thinking I might tackle the barrel swaps myself.

Luckily, I have months to decide, since the parts are still not available.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 20, 2013 12:34 PM (celt+)

161

161 Watch the youtube videos. Once you see how easy it is and do it yourself you'll wonder why you didn't start doing it years ago and you'll begin to appreciate what an absolutely marvelous piece of engineering the AR is.

I GUARANTEE you have more than enough skill and will NOT fail if you try it.

This guy is one of my favorites: http://tinyurl.com/noldw9u See, it's retardedly simple. No high preists of gunsmithing required.

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 12:42 PM (b7yum)

162 161 I MUCH prefer THIS type of vise block tho: http://tinyurl.com/lv2j7yj

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 12:45 PM (b7yum)

163 Building an AR upper is much easier than changing spark plugs on a car. You're SUPPOSED to use a torque wrench on those too...

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 12:50 PM (b7yum)

164 You won't need the crow's foot in the video 'cuz noone else does their foreends like that. Change to free float while you have the barrel off

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 12:51 PM (b7yum)

165 Thanks, I'll bookmark those vids. I've already got a torque wrench, so I'm covered there.

How tough are the flash hiders to get off? Put the barrel in a padded vise and use a normal wrench? Or are we talking putting heat on the FH and using a breaker bar? Somewhere in between?

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 20, 2013 12:55 PM (celt+)

166 Oh, and I've had that Wheeler block in my Amazon wish list for months. ;-) Glad I picked the right one.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 20, 2013 12:57 PM (celt+)

167 Also http://tinyurl.com/khxlpb6

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 12:58 PM (b7yum)

168 Bookmarked into the "AR-15 Stuff" folder! Thanks again!

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 20, 2013 01:03 PM (celt+)

169 Wow - a Larry Potterfield gunsmithing video that doesn't involving using a five-axis milling machine. Cool.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 20, 2013 01:07 PM (celt+)

170 169 My great pleasure. We're trying to redefine the AR as THE definition of "common use"

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 01:07 PM (b7yum)

171 Thanks for the advice so far! The other thing that was making those tempting is that BM is having a deal until the end of the year that with rebate you get a free cleaning kit and 4 30-rd magazines. I'll have to start looking at the other brands too, one of those deals that I heard the name before and it seemed reasonable for a .223/5.56 platform.

Posted by: CaveJohnson at October 20, 2013 01:12 PM (DzLTB)

172 "you get a free... 4 30-rd magazines."

---------------

If they ain't Magpul, they ain't shit.

(Unabashed Magpul fanboi.)

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 20, 2013 01:16 PM (celt+)

173 I carry a gun because I'm too fat to run, to old to fight, and too damn good looking to die.

Off to work, later roonz and roonettez!

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at October 20, 2013 01:28 PM (yh0zB)

174

172 Keep checking out slickguns.

But really, why are you agonizing about this? Just get something!!! The expensive thing about all this is ammo anyway-

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 01:45 PM (b7yum)

175 Cleaning kit + 4 mags is about $50.

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 01:45 PM (b7yum)

176 I'm really jonesing for a Romanian PSL to burn up some of the 7.62x54R that I panic stocked. Anyone here have one?

Posted by: toby928© Alabama Alumnus and Native Texan, now with twice the insufferability at October 20, 2013 02:34 PM (QupBk)

177 177 No goddam commie shit in my safe son

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 02:43 PM (b7yum)

178 So, DAve's a no. Anyone else?

Posted by: toby928© Alabama Alumnus and Native Texan, now with twice the insufferability at October 20, 2013 03:20 PM (QupBk)

179 Btw, I did get the slide off the P64 with a few vigorous smites of a rubber mallet and yep, bulged barrel. On the bright side, I have another barrel in the parts bin. On the down side, no press and no experience replacing one.

Posted by: toby928© Alabama Alumnus and Native Texan, now with twice the insufferability at October 20, 2013 03:34 PM (QupBk)

180 "37 Posted by: sven10077 at October 20, 2013 10:23 AM (9jfyN)

Lots of .22lr are ballistically superior to .25acp...cheaper too.

Posted by: BignJames at October 20, 2013 10:30 AM (j7iSn)"

I think I read somewhere that the .25 ACP was designed, not for improved ballistic performance but because it fed more reliably. The .25 pistols are about the size of the latest generation of .380s which are significantly more powerful.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at October 20, 2013 05:17 PM (q1sF4)

181 Yes, an MP5SD-A3 is a wonderful thing. And a good investment. I bought mine in 1990. Paid about $2500 for it. I think $30,000 if fair now. Don't let anyone tell you that the reduced velocity is much of a handicap. They have been giving dirt naps to ass-holes on a regular basis for about 40 years.

Posted by: Tug at October 20, 2013 06:11 PM (3nP4h)

182 Hey Taro flash hiders are easy to get off and on. You can do it with the AR between your legs and a wrench. No heat required

Posted by: DAve at October 20, 2013 06:52 PM (b7yum)

183 Can anyone identify this oiler. Kinda looks like M1 Carbine, but I recall those as having a flat, formed bottom, not pinched. http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r727/MickySpillaine/IMG_0510_zps8fa7c82b.jpg

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 20, 2013 07:26 PM (aDwsi)

184 Great article, I didnt know the M1 Carbine can cost that much. We actually had a case as Florida Business Attorneys for a gun shop owner who battled the state for selling rights. He needed special licensing and the state stopped issuing permits for automatic and armored reselling.

Posted by: Florida Business Attorneys at November 18, 2013 01:41 PM (F78gs)

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