Ace of Spades HQ

October 27, 2013

Gun Thread (10-27-2013)
— andy

Abbreviated thread today as I'm on dad duty. Talk amongst yourselves.

Gun Of The Week

(answer below)

Marksmanship Award

Hero of the Day - http://t.co/icbraYY7Pw
— Cam and Company (@CamAndCompany) October 25, 2013

Gun Of The Week - Answer

That's the Savage Model 99 (as in 1899) lever-action. It featured an innovative rotary magazine, allowing it to use bullets designs with pointed tips (e.g., spitzer) without the possibility of accidental discharge in the magazine as was present on tubular-magazined lever actions like the Winchester M94. The Model 99 was manufactured for nearly a century - 99 years.

Tips

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Posted by: andy at 05:50 AM | Comments (163)
Post contains 181 words, total size 2 kb.

1 That is a beautiful rifle. Wonder why they quit making it.

Posted by: Vic at October 27, 2013 05:53 AM (zZbNF)

2 Purty weepin wut ya gut a pitcher of

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at October 27, 2013 05:55 AM (MnSla)

3 Never tried the Savage. But I did do a fair amount of range time (as a yoot) with a Winchester Model 94. What a wonderful firearm -- wish I still had it.

Posted by: MrScribbler at October 27, 2013 05:58 AM (kaGpp)

4 Bang!

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at October 27, 2013 05:58 AM (5H6zj)

5 Savage Model 99... I inherited one in 38-55 Win. The ammo in the case was mfgd. in 1955

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at October 27, 2013 06:00 AM (MhA4j)

6 I have a new side by side 12 and a new .22LR pistol waiting for me to get home. Life is good. BTW I have a Savage Backpacker in 308 at home. Barrel comes off for packing. It's old and I've never seen another one like it.

Posted by: Tejano Dave at October 27, 2013 06:01 AM (DajPN)

7 Here in my little town, we have had a group of hoodies robbing stores as they close. Friday night they hit a pizza hut and the cops happened by. Two out of three of them will never see another dime of tax payer money. Regretfully the third is getting his Medicaid at the hospital. Seems the Wilmington police can shoot much better than the nypd.

Posted by: traye at October 27, 2013 06:03 AM (eKxde)

8 The 99 was famous for the .250-3000 cartridge, the first to achieve, so they said, 3000 fps. An excellent deer round. There are some obsolete chamberings around, too, like the .303 Savage which you better like hand loading and fabricating to secure an ammo supply.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at October 27, 2013 06:04 AM (RwgPl)

9 Like most things good, the bean counters probably killed the 99. With it's rotary mag, tang safety, etc. it was probably considered overly expensive to produce. Savage came out with a 99e model (detachable box mag, safety moved down by the trigger, birch stock) but it flopped. One thing lost on the 99e was the ease of one hand carry at the bottom of the rounded receiver, right at point of balance. I always liked the pre war 99's with the thinner stock and forearm, usually with a schanabel.

Posted by: Bill at October 27, 2013 06:06 AM (uvyrw)

10 Posted by: Tejano Dave at October 27, 2013 10:01 AM

If I had a Savage Backpacker, I doubt that I'd admit it! Just sayin'....

Posted by: MrScribbler at October 27, 2013 06:07 AM (kaGpp)

11 I just realized there are three (3) guns in the safe that I have never fired. I need some recoil therapy in a bad way.

Posted by: DC in Towson at October 27, 2013 06:08 AM (eQJwb)

12 I used to have a Savage 30.06. Used to anyway.

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at October 27, 2013 06:10 AM (MnSla)

13 I believe that children are our future, teach them well and let them lead the way..... Many of you have seen this. For those who have not.... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=153938608140284

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 27, 2013 06:11 AM (XIxXP)

14 Scrib, heh. I forgot where I am.

Posted by: Tejano Dave at October 27, 2013 06:11 AM (DajPN)

15 I've got a Browning Hi-Power and a Beretta M9. I need another 9mm like I need a hole in the head. But damn if I don't feel an aching need for a CZ-75. Best 9mm service pistol ever made, John Moses Browning-inspired, in hand it-down-to-your-grandchildren by-God steel. Oh, and amazingly underpriced when you find them.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 27, 2013 06:15 AM (celt+)

16 Scrib, heh. I forgot where I am. Posted by: Tejano Dave at October 27, 2013 10:11 AM

Dude, it's the kind of thing you could say at Kos and get lots of uptwinkles!

Actually, I imagine it's a nice piece. But I'm not sure about having to mount the barrel before use. In a stressful situation, that sounds like a potentially fatal operation, time-wise. I prefer shoot-and-scoot weapons for times like that.

Posted by: MrScribbler at October 27, 2013 06:16 AM (kaGpp)

17 I like the Savage 99, I have wondered about a rotary mag, coupled with a pump for 5.56.....

wheee

Posted by: sven10077 at October 27, 2013 06:17 AM (9jfyN)

18 Probably a bad rap about the self-firing tubular magazine. Even pointy bullets won't set the next primer off, as long as the bullets are lead. If there is a problem, it's with performance bullets with tungsten-and-such inserts that come out to the tip.

Don't be afraid of your lever action. They aren't exactly laying waste to the woods.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at October 27, 2013 06:21 AM (JNUY4)

19 Looks like I have to walk back my Snoopy Dance of happiness from yesterday.

Adult toy store called as we were heading to Navy Football to say that the clerk forgot to give me the third page of the new Maryland 77R form to complete while I was there.
So....finish paperwork tomorrow.
10 Days later the new Stag Model 3 (Plus) gets to come home with papa.

53 days from ordering to Mfg shipping to Store.

But, at least it's in the State at this point.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at October 27, 2013 06:21 AM (OuGy9)

20 Last week I went on my annual grouse hunting trip to Pennsylvania (25th in a row!). One of the things we do there is take a day and hit the gun shops. Usually don't buy anything, but once in a while something jumps out. There is a real gem of a shop called Dixie's in Hughesville that has stuff you just don't see very often. On the used rack this year were a sporterized Arisaka, some beautiful Ruger #1's, three 99's and some beautiful old Parker and Fox doubles. I am a sucker for walnut and blue/brown steel!

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at October 27, 2013 06:24 AM (RwgPl)

21 I'm tryin to talk the wife into letting me have another long gun. She's starting to ease herself into that being ok. I kind of want the Henry Big Boy in .44mag. But just kind of, It's not like I lust after it or anything. Purely a nice to have kind of thing.

Really I swear.

Really I mean it.

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at October 27, 2013 06:27 AM (MnSla)

22 VIA, wow Maryland. Something in the store takes 30 minutes down here in Texas.

Posted by: Tejano Dave at October 27, 2013 06:27 AM (DajPN)

23 Joe, that puddle of drool isn't gonna clean itself up.

Posted by: Tejano Dave at October 27, 2013 06:29 AM (DajPN)

24 Takes longer for me Dave. Half the time it'll take 24hrs for the nics to clear me.

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at October 27, 2013 06:31 AM (MnSla)

25 It's not drool. The dog peed as she went by.

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at October 27, 2013 06:32 AM (MnSla)

26 "VIA, wow Maryland. Something in the store takes 30 minutes down here in Texas."

I forget this part.
Also ordered an AR-15 lower on September 30th.
It just arrived in store on Friday.
I have to wait for thirty days after I take possession of the Stag before the lower can be released to me.

Mrs VIA's 9mm was physically in the store, and paid for over thirty days ago.
As her particular store insists on the State Police completing the application paperwork prior to releasing it to her, it will probably be another 90-120 days before she will receive her toy.

Anyone remember Maryland's motto, "The Free State".

Not so much any more.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at October 27, 2013 06:33 AM (OuGy9)

27 I believe that children are our future, teach them well and let them lead the way..... Many of you have seen this. For those who have not.... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=153938608140284 Holy shit. That little girl could be the policeman in my pocket. AWESOME.

Posted by: Gem at October 27, 2013 06:33 AM (zw+pb)

28 Love this gun. My grandfather gave me his when I was 16. It was manufactured in 1927 and purchased in 1930 when he was 16. Ammo (300 Savage) is a little hard to find and a bit pricey but it is fun to shoot...not to mention the special memories.

Posted by: GJB at October 27, 2013 06:34 AM (LTEFy)

29 Common sense gun laws often aren't. How is it that a decades-old resisting arrest charge disqualifies a person from their 2A rights forever? Maybe Marylanders could explain the theory behind that one. Of course, in reference to the raid on the reporterette's home, it was just the auspices under which other more important things were confiscated, but still....

Posted by: normal man spitting on his hands at October 27, 2013 06:34 AM (agLwc)

30 wow Maryland. Something in the store takes 30 minutes down here in Texas. Coming soon to Virginia, I'm afraid, after McAuliffe gets elected.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at October 27, 2013 06:36 AM (RwgPl)

31 I have a Winchester 94 chambered for 357/38. The 16 inch barrel ups the performance of both cartridges. I sometimes load 180 grain SWC in a 357 case and achieve more foot pounds out the muzzle than standard factory 30-30 loads. Clear blue sky, yesterday's brisk winds are gone, only a light frost, and the leaves are falling. Another wonderful day to be in NE Iowa in the driftless area.

Posted by: The rotting corpse of Rodney at October 27, 2013 06:37 AM (hpgw1)

32 I have an old Japanese Rifle my dad took of a dead Jap on Iwo Jima. I really would like to get it put back in working condition.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 27, 2013 06:37 AM (UbDLm)

33 Later folks. Thanks Andy.

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at October 27, 2013 06:37 AM (MnSla)

34 I can't imagine living in a state where it takes days, weeks, or even months to take home your lawful purchase. Here in Michigan we have fewer laws than most and I can take home a pistol or a long gun about a half hour after deciding to buy it. Only difference between a handgun and a rifle is that I need to take a registration card to the local police within 10 days. Can't say I agree with that but it's still better than many states.

Posted by: Bill R. at October 27, 2013 06:37 AM (QnRSM)

35 Guns are bad, m'kay?

Posted by: Mr. Mackey at October 27, 2013 06:38 AM (8NlUk)

JoeTheFatman ;

Goodnight.

Thankx for all you do!

Posted by: Ratts Alley at October 27, 2013 06:38 AM (pY5O/)

37 Nevergiveup: Does it still have the chrysanthemum on the receiver?

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at October 27, 2013 06:39 AM (RwgPl)

38 Instead of lever action you could always go for the Remington 7600 pump .308. Awesome all around rifle.

Posted by: Roc Ingersol at October 27, 2013 06:39 AM (F1lOF)

39 Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at October 27, 2013 10:21 AM (OuGy9) See what we have to look forward to in VA. Idiots.

Posted by: RWC at October 27, 2013 06:43 AM (LpbKr)

40 Does it still have the chrysanthemum on the receiver? Posted by: Jinx the Cat at October 27, 2013 10:39 AM (RwgPl) Not sure. I put up on a shelf along with the Samurai Swords a few years ago and have no looked at it recently.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 27, 2013 06:44 AM (UbDLm)

41 I have no idea what the rules are in NC. If I wanted to go to Walmart and buy, say, a shotgun or a .22 rifle, would I walk out with it the same day?

Posted by: Lincolntf at October 27, 2013 06:45 AM (ZshNr)

42 And, as an added bonus, we can have graft and corruption right here in the Old Dominion. What the devil is wrong with people, even the newspapers aren't supporting McAuliffe.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at October 27, 2013 06:45 AM (RwgPl)

post war arisaka's had the flower ground off, true?

Posted by: normal man spitting on his hands at October 27, 2013 06:45 AM (agLwc)

44 post war arisaka's had the flower ground off, true? Posted by: normal man spitting on his hands at October 27, 2013 10:45 AM (agLwc) Some WW2 Jap rifles also had them shaved off by the Jap Soldiers before they died or surrendered

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 27, 2013 06:49 AM (UbDLm)

45 IF I put that Jap Rifle into working shape do I have to get a gun license first?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 27, 2013 06:49 AM (UbDLm)

46 IF I put that Jap Rifle into working shape do I have to get a gun license first? Only if you don't go boating regularly.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at October 27, 2013 06:52 AM (RwgPl)

47 41 I have no idea what the rules are in NC. If I wanted to go to Walmart and buy, say, a shotgun or a .22 rifle, would I walk out with it the same day?

Posted by: Lincolntf at October 27, 2013 10:45 AM (ZshNr)

A license or permit must be obtained to purchase, sell, give away, transfer, inherit, or receive a handgun by applying to the county sheriff in which the purchase is to be made or where the receiver resides.

http://tinyurl.com/q2hkrau

Posted by: Vic at October 27, 2013 06:53 AM (zZbNF)

48 liking my Walther p.22. Wife carries it on the property for snakey snakes and she's 5'0 90 lbs so it's a perfect tiny carry for her.

Posted by: tangonine at October 27, 2013 06:54 AM (x3YFz)

We KNOW, as do most thinking folks, that gun laws do absolutely nothing to promote public safety. Nothing.

In any way, shape, or form.

Look at the wide variety of laws, from ultra restrictive NY and Ill to easy peasy AZ and constitutional carry states. Those who wish to run amok and do damage to others break 10 gun laws on their way to raping and pillaging. Doesn't seem to slow them down much, other than in States where the people have an easier time of procuring and carrying weapons legally, they run the risk of return fire.

Regardless of where one stands on 2A issues, an honest analysis of honest numbers would bear this out.

Oh...there's the rub.....I said honest.

Posted by: normal man spitting on his hands at October 27, 2013 06:54 AM (agLwc)

50 Dang, I just had a post swallowed...... Bear in mind the Arisaka's quality suffered as war progressed. Have your's checked out. The receiver was quite strong in the early ones, but towards the end it got spotty. There should be a number on it that will tell the year of the emperor's reign or something that will let you know when it is produced.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at October 27, 2013 06:55 AM (RwgPl)

51 41 I have no idea what the rules are in NC. If I wanted to go to Walmart and buy, say, a shotgun or a .22 rifle, would I walk out with it the same day? Posted by: Lincolntf at October 27, 2013 10:45 AM (ZshNr) Looks like yes. Pistol would require a permit from your local sheriff.

Posted by: RWC at October 27, 2013 06:55 AM (LpbKr)

52 Thanks, Vic. That sounds like it's specific to handguns, which would lead me to believe I might have luck with a long gun. I suppose the WalMart guy will have all the forms, necessary contact info., but that's just an assumption.

Posted by: Lincolntf at October 27, 2013 06:56 AM (ZshNr)

53 Or what Vic said.

Posted by: RWC at October 27, 2013 06:59 AM (LpbKr)

54 43
post war arisaka's had the flower ground off, true?

Posted by: normal man spitting on his hands at October 27, 2013 10:45 AM (agLwc)

I did not know this. Nice data point. My wish list of WWII collectibles:

M1 Carbine
Walther Gerwher 43

and who doesn't want a Panzerfaust?

Posted by: tangonine at October 27, 2013 06:59 AM (x3YFz)

An interesting thing about the WWII Arisaka is that sometimes the Japanese soldiers would put stuff under the steel butt plate. I found a Japanese newspaper clipping under one.

Not being able to read Japanese, I never found out what it said.

Posted by: Frankly at October 27, 2013 07:00 AM (8XXu9)

56 Thanks RWC. I keep meaning to go by the gun dept. and talk to an employee when I'm at WM, but then I get there and just want to get the hell out as fast as possible.

Posted by: Lincolntf at October 27, 2013 07:01 AM (ZshNr)

57 Not being able to read Japanese, I never found out what it said. Posted by: Frankly at October 27, 2013 11:00 AM (8XXu9) It said: " Leave the gun, Take the cannoli"

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 27, 2013 07:01 AM (UbDLm)

58 52 Thanks, Vic. That sounds like it's specific to handguns, which would lead me to believe I might have luck with a long gun. I suppose the WalMart guy will have all the forms, necessary contact info., but that's just an assumption.

Posted by: Lincolntf at October 27, 2013 10:56 AM (ZshNr)

Walmart has been PC about the gun thing. I refuse to buy anything there. That coupled with the fact that all their employees in the sporting goods dept, in my personal experience, have been jerks. (same with Dick's sporting goods)

Posted by: tangonine at October 27, 2013 07:02 AM (x3YFz)

59 I'm still loving my CZ P-07 9mm (1" groups @ 10m with standard thumbs-forward grip - yes, please). I'm really considering picking up a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 S&W 59 compatible model. Apparently, that will accept CZ 75B mags, and I plan on getting another one of those soon, too. Seems like a pretty solid SHTF set-up. I fired a Glock-based Sub2k a few weeks ago. I thought it was a little rough but would probably smooth out over 500 rounds or so. Buddy disagreed and sold the thing.

Any ideas, folks? Other CZ lovers out there? I lived in the Czech Republic for a few years. I credit my CZ love to that - and CZ's unbelievable reliability, accuracy, and value. It really makes me a bit sad that they get so little love Stateside.

Posted by: Terminus Vex at October 27, 2013 07:04 AM (ivXj2)

60 Posted by: Lincolntf at October 27, 2013 11:01 AM (ZshNr) Make sure you have two forms of ID as well. I carry around a copy of my car registration just in case. Didn't have it when I got the 870 but thelpful salesperson told me to go up front and get a 5 dollar fishing license and that would be accepted.

Posted by: RWC at October 27, 2013 07:05 AM (LpbKr)

61 going on 11 mos since my colt was ordered.....still hasn't arrived......

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at October 27, 2013 07:05 AM (8JJ6O)

62 I was in Dicks about a year back. Me and another guy were waiting on the sporting goods dude to come back from his 3 hour smoke break. We got to chatting and he was a Marine JTAC. 6 deployments.

Super nice guy.

So Dick's Sporting Good Know it All finally appears. Marine is asking about a plinker .22 for his daughter (ruger, I think he was looking at). The Know it All treated Marine like he just fell off the turnip truck. Arrogant, dismissive, just a jackass.

I gave the Marine the address of the place I buy guns. Local, mom and pop place. Good folks.

Know it all just stood there looking at us like we were idiots.

Posted by: tangonine at October 27, 2013 07:07 AM (x3YFz)

63 Book thread

Posted by: Vic at October 27, 2013 07:07 AM (zZbNF)

64 can we shoot the books?

Posted by: tangonine at October 27, 2013 07:09 AM (x3YFz)

65 Almost turned into an Arisaka thread. Most war trophy Arisakas had the "mum" ground off by occupation forces edict.Some were, no doubt defaced by Jap troops. As to the rifle, early ones were stout as hell. A common conversion post war was to simply rechamber a 7.7mm to 30'06. Possibly a legend, there was a story of a guy writing to the NRA that he performed this, but recoil was off the charts. He visited the NRA and test firing was done. He had a 6.5 mm rechambered to 30'06, thus squeezing a 30 cal bullet through a 25 cal hole.

Posted by: Bill at October 27, 2013 07:10 AM (uvyrw)

66 There was something of a flap amongst the Horde earlier this week regarding the fatal shooting of a 13-year-old here in Commiefornia.

Quite a lot of the reaction was, "goddamned overreacting trigger happy cops".

I often have that selfsame reaction, but I didn't in this case. I may revise that opinion if and when new facts come in.

Basically, this youngster was openly toting an Airsoft replica of an AK. And a damn good one, too. Here's a photo with local l/e comparing a genuine AK with the replica in question.

http://pix.pressdemocrat.com/20131025/ARTICLES/131029667/story.jpg

How many of you could tell these apart from 20 meters in ten seconds?

Note that Airsoft replicas are illegal for open carry in this state, and Airsoft replicas are required to have a bright safety orange identifying tip. This youngster was breaking both rules. And when challenged by local deputies, repeatedly, to drop the weapon, he instead turned towards them with it in his hands.

I have a hard time classifying that as a bad shoot.

However, the Commiefornia institutional left absolutely adore it when a person of color gets shot by the cops. A kid? Even better! They know the drill perfectly well about "creating a narrative", and they are deliberately whipping up a Trayvon Martin level of hysterical nonsense over the matter. Once more unto the breach.

Posted by: torquewrench at October 27, 2013 07:11 AM (gqT4g)

67 Note that Airsoft replicas are illegal for open carry in this state, and Airsoft replicas are required to have a bright safety orange identifying tip. This youngster was breaking both rules. And when challenged by local deputies, repeatedly, to drop the weapon, he instead turned towards them with it in his hands.

Posted by: torquewrench at October 27, 2013 11:11 AM (gqT4g)

Those air soft guns look exactly the same as the real deal. No orange tip? They make them with the orange tip! He had to have removed or painted over it. Natural selection strikes again!

Posted by: tangonine at October 27, 2013 07:15 AM (x3YFz)

68 Last gun I bought was at a gun show in missouri 3 yrs ago. Took me an hour. 55 minutes of that was finding the right gun :-)

Posted by: BigZesty at October 27, 2013 07:17 AM (rrXO7)

69 LIncoltf, Don't overlook Gunbroker as well. Really easy to use and you can get some great deals.

Posted by: RWC at October 27, 2013 07:19 AM (LpbKr)

70 My last nuclear tipped assualt rifle of doom took 30 minutes to purchase.

Posted by: tangonine at October 27, 2013 07:20 AM (x3YFz)

71 66 Posted by: torquewrench at October 27, 2013 11:11 AM (gqT4g)

A later description of that event showed that only 13 seconds elapsed between start to finish and the kid had 7 bullets in him from one shooter.

Posted by: Vic at October 27, 2013 07:23 AM (zZbNF)

72 the kid had 7 bullets in him from one shooter.

Posted by: Vic at October 27, 2013 11:23 AM (zZbNF)

I'm thinking that's a bit much?

Posted by: tangonine at October 27, 2013 07:25 AM (x3YFz)

73 70 My last nuclear tipped assualt rifle of doom took 30 minutes to purchase. Posted by: tangonine at October 27, 2013 11:20 AM (x3YFz) Same here. Although if we took out the discussion on todays politicians it would have been maybe 5 minutes.

Posted by: RWC at October 27, 2013 07:25 AM (LpbKr)

74 That last comment from me is a bit mis-leading. I got lucky and found a private seller at a small table. Last time I had to go thru the NICS check was here in SW Ohio. Took about 20 minutes from them handing me the form to me walking out with the gun. Unfortunately I've since lost both in tragic boating accidents.

Posted by: BigZesty at October 27, 2013 07:26 AM (rrXO7)

75 Unfortunately I've since lost both in tragic boating accidents.

Posted by: BigZesty at October 27, 2013 11:26 AM (rrXO7)

You too!?

Whole kit. Was out fishing. All rifles and pistols and ammo are now at the bottom of a reservoir that I forgot the name of.

Posted by: tangonine at October 27, 2013 07:28 AM (x3YFz)

Recently bought an SR 9C and the paperwork took longer than the call to NICS. My first nine. I like it, less recoil than the .40s and I can get rounds on target quicker. Still like the .40s better.

Posted by: Bill R. at October 27, 2013 07:30 AM (QnRSM)

77 Every gun owner is also a boat owner. Even those nowhere near water.

Posted by: tangonine at October 27, 2013 07:32 AM (x3YFz)

78 Airsoft Rifles are a danger to our youngest and most innocent children everywhere. They closely resemble military-styled rifles which can spray millions of rounds with just a few pulls of the trigger, and we cannot let our children near these deadly doppelgangers.

Posted by: Cathy L. Lanier, 4 Star General at October 27, 2013 07:36 AM (JBfvU)

79 hey kids shot my .22 rifle at 540 yards yesterday went 2 out of 10, no sighters went 6 for 10 at 415 yards, no sighters long range .22 is kinda fun wind was 2 to 4mph left to right

Posted by: Jake at October 27, 2013 07:37 AM (6ce4O)

80 So, apparently, 20 seconds from pulling over to kakking a kid right into the ground is acceptable ROE for US LEO?

Posted by: normal man spitting on his hands at October 27, 2013 07:39 AM (agLwc)

81 Hey Jake, what size target ?

Posted by: normal man spitting on his hands at October 27, 2013 07:45 AM (agLwc)

82 The days of the lever action are over except for a few instances. modern semi autos are cheaper to make. also lever guns really suck to shoot prone, same with pump shot guns

Posted by: Jake at October 27, 2013 07:45 AM (6ce4O)

83 Hey Jake, what size target ? Posted by: normal man spitting on his hands at October 27, 2013 11:45 AM (agLwc) forgot that 24 inch by 24 inch steel plates for both

Posted by: Jake at October 27, 2013 07:48 AM (6ce4O)

84 unfortunately the days of lever guns are over. I should add.

Posted by: Jake at October 27, 2013 07:50 AM (6ce4O)

85 "72 the kid had 7 bullets in him from one shooter.

Posted by: Vic at October 27, 2013 11:23 AM (zZbNF)

I'm thinking that's a bit much?

Posted by: tangonine at October 27, 2013 11:25 AM (x3YFz)"

It is not unusual in a shooting situation for people to experience "time dilation" where people think that an enormous amount of time has gone by in just a few seconds. If you thought that somebody was pointing a Kalashnikov at you, the tendency would be to think that you have to act right now or you will die. The tendency would also be that you are thinking, "Why won't he go down? I must have missed! I had best take better aim and shoot at him again." All this is going on while your body is dumping maximum adrenaline into your blood stream which is likely to have some effect on your ability to calmly ponder the situation.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at October 27, 2013 07:59 AM (q1sF4)

86 "So, apparently, 20 seconds from pulling over to kakking a kid right into the ground is acceptable ROE for US LEO?"

I suspect if you compiled a list of cases in which it took 20 seconds from pullover to dead LEO, it would be a long list.

Bad low-income neighborhood. History of gang activities. History of gunfire. Extremely realistic looking "AK". Unidentified person, not visibly a "kid", refusing orders to drop that AK. No grounds for alarm at all, eh?

Note also that a "kid" of the very same age shot and killed an adult former Marine only 24 hours prior, just one state over. Even if you know someone with a gun is a kid -- which the LEO in this case did not -- the mere fact of age does not mean that "kid" can not present a very real lethal threat.

As noted, I am quick to condemn genuine cases of law enforcement being paranoid, overreacting, and using too much force. I haven't seen anything yet in this case to suggest they did so here.

Posted by: torquewrench at October 27, 2013 08:00 AM (gqT4g)

87 You are probably right Jake but I still have a Winchester 30-30 and my brother has one as well as a Marlin lever action .22. I'm thinking about buying a Henry .22 lever action. I still think they're a lot of fun to shoot and I rarely shoot from a prone position anyway.

Posted by: Bill R. at October 27, 2013 08:01 AM (QnRSM)

88 Any good places to read up on 80% lowers? What it takes to finish em out? Recommended manufacturers? I lone a guy who thinks he wants to do it but I had to do my Sgt. Schultz impression.

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 27, 2013 08:02 AM (ma+gB)

Well then, nice shooting!

Although I have to disagree with days of the lever action being over. From a military standpoint yes, of course, but for all other actions? Hunting from prone, though rare, can be done with a lever, provided your confident in your shot. An ultra-fast follow up shot is usually discouraged, from a safety point of view at least.

I love my lever actions. Their days will never be over, at least for me.

Posted by: normal man spitting on his hands at October 27, 2013 08:03 AM (agLwc)

90 loan? know

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 27, 2013 08:04 AM (ma+gB)

91 Posted by: Bill R. at October 27, 2013 12:01 PM (QnRSM) I still shoot lever actions. They represent a lot of history in the USA from Old West to post ww2.

Posted by: Jake at October 27, 2013 08:07 AM (6ce4O)

92 Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 27, 2013 10:37 AM (UbDLm)

Clean it, lubricate it, take it to a gunsmith to check headspace and some other stuff.

If you need help give me a yell.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 27, 2013 08:08 AM (oJ5Fd)

93 "59 Other CZ lovers out there?"

-----------------

Did you see my #15?

----------------

"I lived in the Czech Republic for a few years. I credit my CZ love to that - and CZ's unbelievable reliability, accuracy, and value. It really makes me a bit sad that they get so little love Stateside.
Posted by: Terminus Vex"

----------------

I'm firmly convinced that if CZ raised their handgun prices 30%, they'd be the hot pick. I don't think people can reconcile such a bargain price with such superb quality.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 27, 2013 08:09 AM (celt+)

94 "and who doesn't want a Panzerfaust?

Posted by: tangonine at October 27, 2013 10:59 AM (x3YFz)"

That brings up a good question, what would be the legal hoops required to make one? Basically, they are just a length of pipe. The WW II version used a couple of ounces of black powder to launch a projectile that weighed 5 or 6 pounds. Assuming that you are launching an inert projectile, isn't it just a kind of a variant of a potato gun?

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at October 27, 2013 08:10 AM (q1sF4)

95 Thanks CBD- Isn't there machine work that needs to be completed?

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 27, 2013 08:10 AM (ma+gB)

96 "88 Any good places to read up on 80% lowers? What it takes to finish em out?"

----------------

Basically it takes a well-equipped machine shop and basic machining knowledge. So much so that groups hold "build parties" at machine shops where you kick in some bucks for machine rental, they set you up, and you turn the little handles so that legally it's you building it and not them. Only worth it if you really, really want to stay off the books.

There's a company called James Madison that's going to make a polymer 80% lower that includes jigs. Being polymer, you can get away with a basic drill press with a - I can't think of the proper term for it - a back-and-forth "movable bed" that you can combine with an end mill bit in the chuck to make a primitive milling set-up. Price is a little south of $150, which is more than stripped aluminum lowers. Again, only makes sense if you really, really want to stay off the books. Plus, I'm still leery of polymer until I see more beta testing by others.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 27, 2013 08:16 AM (celt+)

97 95 - I think CBD was answering the "what should I do with my Arisaka" question.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 27, 2013 08:18 AM (celt+)

Torque, I've tried to consider the LEO POV on this one. Call comes in saying someone is walking down the street with an AK, thenn HOLY SHIT! there he is! I know there's going to be the adrenaline dump right there (for me at least, but I'm not trained or experienced in such incidences), but they could have noticed by the apparent-ness of the situation that the perp was

a) not an active shooter (yet)

b) not holding a hostage

c) not committing some other felony while in possession of a firearm

Still.

Posted by: normal man spitting on his hands at October 27, 2013 08:18 AM (agLwc)

99 I just saw blem AR aluminium for $59

Posted by: Jake at October 27, 2013 08:18 AM (6ce4O)

100 Assuming that you are launching an inert projectile, isn't it just a kind of a variant of a potato gun? Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at October 27, 2013 12:10 PM (q1sF4) assumming the projectile is a 'dummy', depends on if ATF considders it a destructive device

Posted by: Jake at October 27, 2013 08:20 AM (6ce4O)

101 Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 27, 2013 12:02 PM (ma+gB)

I was answering a different question, although 80% lowers are supposedly easy. The jigs to guide the drilling are expensive, so if you can go in with a few people that will help.

And I think there are build clubs, you just have to poke around.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 27, 2013 08:20 AM (oJ5Fd)

102 "99 I just saw blem AR aluminium for $59"

-----------

Yep. Add in $25 transfer fee and you're under a C-note for something that you just have to push some pins in. I don't see how 80% make sense for anyone but the well-equipped machinist and the wanna-keep-under-the-radar crowd (NTTAWWT).

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 27, 2013 08:21 AM (celt+)

103 101 - from what I've read, it's not just drilling, but milling. That's the sticking point.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 27, 2013 08:22 AM (celt+)

104 Again, only makes sense if you really, really want to stay off the books. Plus, I'm still leery of polymer until I see more beta testing by others. Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 27, 2013 12:16 PM (celt+) everyone is on the grid

Posted by: Jake at October 27, 2013 08:23 AM (6ce4O)

105 "104 - everyone is on the grid"

--------------

True that. Unless you pay cash in person, there's a record somewhere of your purchase of that 80% lower.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 27, 2013 08:25 AM (celt+)

106 Oh geez. Half blind in one eye and can't see out of the other. Or need more coffee still. Thanks guys. Not sure of his motive. He might be thinking he has everything on the books so far. Not sounding like it's anything either of us has the tools or background for. Have a good one and thanks!!

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at October 27, 2013 08:27 AM (r60DJ)

107 "Torque, I've tried to consider the LEO POV on this one."

Here's an example, also from Commiefornia, of just how fast things can go wrong when LEO confront someone who is armed and of bad intentions.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20131027/wire/131029626

Although, while I have sympathy for the LEO perspective, the CHiP in the accompanying photo needs to be clued in about muzzle discipline. If I were that driver, I would be pretty unhappy.

Posted by: torquewrench at October 27, 2013 08:28 AM (gqT4g)

108 everyone is on the grid

Posted by: Jake at October 27, 2013 12:23 PM (6ce4O

Unless you've never filled out a NICS form, ever.

or gone to a gun-related web sight, or belong to the NRA, or bought ammo with a credit card, or bought any other firearms related product with a credit card. etc., etc.,

That one guy is out there in America, right now.

The rest of us are on the grid

Posted by: normal man spitting on his hands at October 27, 2013 08:29 AM (agLwc)

109 everyone is on the grid off the top of my head if you have since 2002 filled out a 4473 CCW/CCP Hunting license posted something about firearms on the internet bought anything with a credit/debit card at a sporting goods store the goal is to flood the zone with gun owners so that the shear numbers make it impossible to stop taking away guns/gun rights

Posted by: Jake at October 27, 2013 08:31 AM (6ce4O)

110 Wow, the formatting on this comments section is terrible. How I wrote and what showed up are two very different things.

Posted by: normal man spitting on his hands at October 27, 2013 08:33 AM (agLwc)

111 Posted by: torquewrench at October 27, 2013 12:28 PM (gqT4g) dude!

Posted by: Jake at October 27, 2013 08:36 AM (6ce4O)

112 "110 Wow, the formatting on this comments section isterrible. How I wrote and what showed up are two very different things."

--------------------

Yep. I always suspect that some day I'm going to type a two-sentence comment and it's going to render as a pointillist portrait of Albert Einstein.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 27, 2013 08:44 AM (celt+)

113 110 Wow, the formatting on this comments section isterrible. How I wrote and what showed up are two very different things. Posted by: normal man spitting on his hands at October 27, 2013 12:33 PM (agLwc) Upgrade to Platinum Membership.

Posted by: RWC at October 27, 2013 08:48 AM (LpbKr)

114 I had a chance to shoot a Savage 99, in .300 Savage, a few wears ago. Got hits on steel at 395 meters which was about the limit of the optic/cartridge of that set up

Posted by: Jake at October 27, 2013 08:52 AM (6ce4O)

115 On the cops shooting a kid, look at it from the cops point of view. Not *defending* the cops, so much as think about what they thought.

Here's an example of how fast a routine stop can go tits up:

Stafford police officer shot in the face, continues to chase suspects

http://tinyurl.com/llmpyqg

She was just making a late night traffic stop. Every stop has that potential, and considering the cali cops saw a gun, not a TOY, I'll cut them a hell of a lot of slack on this one.

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at October 27, 2013 08:52 AM (MnSla)

116 Airsoft is gonna wind up facing this more and more often.
Our entire family plays paintball, including myself. The guns for the most part are not going to be confused with a real firearm.
Some of the woodsball set ups can look a good bit like the real thing, but speedball, no way.
Still, always carry cased/boxed as if it was an actual firearm.

Airsoft....some of the stuff out there in the tactical department can not be told from the real thing at 10 foot distance in a static environment.
I have held high end airsoft products that your eyes, hands and ears when shaking racking or operating the action lead you to firmly believe that you are holding the real thing.
You remove or paint the little orange tip, and open carry, you're begging for this to happen.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at October 27, 2013 08:59 AM (OuGy9)

117 Here's some awesome disguised weapons offered to a collector on Craigslist:

http://www.dontevenreply.com/view.php?post=84

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 27, 2013 09:09 AM (celt+)

118 The boy in Santa Rosa died, sadly, from having removed the orange tip from his airsoft rifle. Nothing else.

The cops did what they train to do, fire at center mass until the target is no longer a threat.

The whole thing sucks, I agree.

Posted by: navybrat at October 27, 2013 09:11 AM (AYGBr)

119 "The boy in Santa Rosa died, sadly, from having removed the orange tip from his airsoft rifle. Nothing else."

Not entirely true. He also (allegedly, at any rate) refused a police order to drop his weapon, and instead turned toward the officers as one would would if one wanted to bring his weapon to bear.

Who provided the kid with the realistic toy gun? Who supervised his playing with it? Who told him it was OK to remove the orange tip?

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at October 27, 2013 09:25 AM (60Q+L)

120 ...and who doesn't want a Panzerfaust?
A "loaded" one at that!

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at October 27, 2013 09:28 AM (tHXgZ)

121 Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 27, 2013 01:09 PM (celt+) Frickin' hilarious!

Posted by: RWC at October 27, 2013 09:34 AM (LpbKr)

122 Assuming that you are launching an inert projectile, isn't it just a kind of a variant of a potato gun?
Or get some potato-mashers too.

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at October 27, 2013 09:37 AM (tHXgZ)

123 The toy gun belonged to another young relative, I've read, Alberta Oil Peon. (Cousin or something.) I don't know answers to the other questions. I also don't know if the kid spoke English. (Or if he/his family are legals.)

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at October 27, 2013 09:40 AM (tHXgZ)

124 Need to find out where this family on Doomsday Preppers lives. Shitload of food and nary a weapon in sight. Great plan!

Posted by: RWC at October 27, 2013 09:43 AM (LpbKr)

125 Big difference in seeing a juvenile with a realistic looking gun and seeing a juvenile with a realistic looking gun with an orange tip. Cops train for these exact kinds of situations.

The difference is one dead juvenile.

Posted by: navybrat at October 27, 2013 09:47 AM (AYGBr)

126 Every gun owner is also a boat owner. Even those nowhere near water.

Posted by: tangonine at October 27, 2013 11:32 AM (x3YFz)

I sold that damn boat, after I lost everything.

Your wartime Arisaka is probably either a Type 38 in 6.5x50mm or a Type 99 in 7.7mm, either are great rifles but you will either have to handload or pay large prices for the ammo (large scale ammo production for them ceased rather abruptly in August of '45). There were a couple of different variations as well, if you have one of them it is even more collectible. Look online (http://tinyurl.com/nmul4fh) to see the Japanese characters to determine which you have.

In either case have them checked by a competent gunsmith as some of them were trainers with smooth bores and not meant to fire live ammo (this, BTW, is the source of the "low quality" myth, even the late model Type 99's were metallurgically sound and found to be the strongest actions of any WW2 rifle, they just didn't spend a lot of time on fit and finish late in the war).

If you have an actual battlefield pick-up with matching serial numbers, an intact mum and dust cover you will have collectors salivating over it. Most of them were post-war bring-backs, they were stacked in piles and if you wanted one you picked a rifle out of one pile (the mum would have been ground off) and a bolt out of the other pile and put them in the ships armory for the trip back home (the remainder were rather unceremoniously dumped in the harbor). Then you made up a story about how you took it off a dead Jap and he must have removed the dust cover.

Avoid "experts" who will tell you that the Japanese soldiers removed the dust covers. They were property of the Emperor, and the Japanese soldier would never deface the property of their god, especially since to do so would require a quick death.

Arisakas are interesting guns and a lot of fun other than the high ammo prices, I have a Type 30 carbine (hook safety, first of the Arisakas and the only one designed by Arisaka himself) and even though I can't hit shit with it, it remains my favorite gun. Battlefield sighting is right around 300 meters so my carbine shoots insanely high at shorter ranges (and with my eyesight all ranges that I shoot are short), the story I've heard is the Japanese solders were trained to aim at belt buckles.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at October 27, 2013 09:54 AM (yh0zB)

127 "I also don't know if the kid spoke English. (Or if he/his family are legals.)"

The kid spoke English. He was a citizen, born in Commiefornia. In Sonoma County, same locale as the shooting incident.

His parents were described as "having come from Sonora, Mexico about 20 years ago". That sort of vague wording with no mention of citizenship pretty much implies that they're illegals, or at least were illegals at the time of entry.

Posted by: torquewrench at October 27, 2013 10:00 AM (gqT4g)

128 I'm waiting for the day some nutbar Democrat jams an orange tip onto a real AK, and trudges off to the local school with it to do some kidlet hunting, secure in the knowledge that if the cops see him, they'll give him a pass, because hey! it's only an airsoft.

You know it's going to be tried by some perp, sooner or later. And I'm not suggesting that realistic toy guns be banned, or anything stupid like that. What I am suggesting is that placing too much faith in the notion that an orange tip on a "gun" means it's safe is unwarranted.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at October 27, 2013 10:00 AM (60Q+L)

129 What I am suggesting is that placing too much faith in the notion that an orange tip on a "gun" means it's safe is unwarranted.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at October 27, 2013 02:00 PM (60Q+L)

Agreed.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at October 27, 2013 10:10 AM (yh0zB)

130 "I'm waiting for the day some nutbar Democrat jams an orange tip onto a real AK, and trudges off to the local school with it to do some kidlet hunting, secure in the knowledge that if the cops see him, they'll give him a pass, because hey! it's only an airsoft."

Your words here were being repeated on Friday, between myself, and the owner of a High end Paintball/Airsoft store that I have been known to help out with.

Those few seconds of uncertainty by a LEO could very easily cost either the LEO or someone else their life.

And once that first one happens, all bets are off.
You will see mandated airsoft/paintball transportation requirements that mirror real firearm requirements.

Either that, or someone will ask the at that point, non-retorical question..."Does one really need a toy that exactly mimics a real firearm"

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at October 27, 2013 10:22 AM (OuGy9)

131 Does one ever really need to form one's fingers in the shape of a gun and say "bang!"?

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at October 27, 2013 10:34 AM (tHXgZ)

132 ATF has shut down 80% cnc shops. Shoulda taken my advice gentlemen

Posted by: DAve at October 27, 2013 10:56 AM (b7yum)

133 128 Happens all the time. The orange tip will not save you.

Posted by: DAve at October 27, 2013 10:57 AM (b7yum)

134 Polymer lowers are bullshit and definitely to be avoided

Posted by: DAve at October 27, 2013 10:59 AM (b7yum)

135 Does one ever really need to form one's fingers in the shape of a gun and say "bang!"? ----------------------- Moot point, no Constitutional protection there, so..., can made illegal activity, if it isn't already, because 'hate speech'. I just hope we can manage to amend any specific laws to exempt fingers with orange tips.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 27, 2013 11:04 AM (aDwsi)

136 80% cnc machining was easy-peasy. a coupla minutes and there you are. Actual machining with a mill would be a much different proposition. Hope the cnc option returns soon.

Posted by: DAve at October 27, 2013 11:06 AM (b7yum)

137 Wait, did Jake just say that .22lr was better for long range performance than a .300 winmag???

Posted by: DAve at October 27, 2013 11:08 AM (b7yum)

138 What's the drop on a 22lr at 400 yards, like 16 feet???

Posted by: DAve at October 27, 2013 11:13 AM (b7yum)

139 Damn good shootin' tho, props to their coach

Posted by: DAve at October 27, 2013 11:14 AM (b7yum)

140 What's the drop on a 22lr at 400 yards, like 16 feet??? Posted by: DA ----------------------- Keep going....

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 27, 2013 11:16 AM (aDwsi)

141 What's the drop on a 22lr at 400 yards, like 16 feet??? Posted by: DA ----------------------- Keep going.... Posted by: Mike Hammer ---------------- Hold it..., that may actually be about right. Momentary brain cloud took me to longer range. If you would like to see some 500 yd. .22 shots, there are a couple on Youtube.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 27, 2013 11:24 AM (aDwsi)

142 93 - Taro Tsujimoto I did see 15 - but I was using my tablet at a coffee shop and it was giving me a hard time. As for raising CZ prices, I think I agree. People just don't understand that they can get FNH/Sig quality for 50-70% of the price. And I guess I sort of understand it. I still like going to ranges and having people come over to ask about my P-07. It's been bulletproof, so to speak, since I got it. I had a 75B w/Omega trigger, and it was one of the finest pistols I've ever laid hands on. Tack driving accurate, and not a single FTF/FTE/FTL in 1000+ rounds (I still can't believe I had to sell it).

Posted by: Terminus Vex at October 27, 2013 11:24 AM (hWpbJ)

143 141 So basically just hold it at a 45 degree angle...

Posted by: DAve at October 27, 2013 11:31 AM (b7yum)

144 What's the drop on a 22lr at 400 yards, like 16 feet??? Posted by: DA ---------------------- A quickie ballistic calculation suggests ~ 25' at 400 yds 40gr., 1050 fps, 0.130 coefficient

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 27, 2013 11:34 AM (aDwsi)

145 144 So next time I try that I'll bring my buddy who used to be on a mortar squad. Probably be very helpful for shots like that...

Posted by: DAve at October 27, 2013 11:35 AM (b7yum)

146 So basically just hold it at a 45 degree angle... Posted by: DAve ------------------------- Nah. Just build a 25' platform to shoot from. ;-)

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 27, 2013 11:36 AM (aDwsi)

147 144 Good thing tho is that at 400 yards you could probably catch it in your hand. Terminal ballistics probably measured in ounces

Posted by: DAve at October 27, 2013 11:36 AM (b7yum)

148 Good thing tho is that at 400 yards you could probably catch it in your hand. Terminal ballistics probably measured in ounces Posted by: DAve ------------------ Probably a bad idea, watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUM1r_444CY Lethality of .22 at 400 yds.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 27, 2013 11:40 AM (aDwsi)

149 the po po are shooting dogs now too.....just for barking....the shooting of the kid was not justified.......

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at October 27, 2013 11:42 AM (8JJ6O)

150 148 A tip of the hat to Mike Hammer, who showed me the only interesting vid I saw all week. Insofar as that vid is accurate, how much moreso for a .223 running at 3300 f.p.s.???

Posted by: DAve at October 27, 2013 11:50 AM (b7yum)

151 149 That's what happens when you give cops machine guns and MRAP's

Posted by: DAve at October 27, 2013 11:51 AM (b7yum)

152 There is still hope: My 13 year old son just placed a silver medal in his age group at the Maryland 4H shotgun championship at the sporting clay course. He shot 30 out of 50. There were 94 competitors from across the state.

Even in the heart of a leftist liberal state, there is hope.

Posted by: Jake Brodsky at October 27, 2013 11:59 AM (phsxf)

153 And let me add to that win that it would not have been possible without support from the Friends of the NRA foundation grants. Thank you to everyone who donated. I make sure my son knows where his ammo comes from every time he shoots.

Posted by: Jake Brodsky at October 27, 2013 12:00 PM (phsxf)

154 A tip of the hat to Mike Hammer, who showed me the only interesting vid I saw all week. Insofar as that vid is accurate, how much moreso for a .223 running at 3300 f.p.s.??? Posted by: DAve ---------------------------------------- A long ways. One the goals when they worked up the 'improvement' of the .222 Remington was to have a round that remained transonic at 500yds., and the mil-spec .223 does just that. The problem becomes hitting something at that range. Not very easy to do with an AR-15 variant. Someone will jump on me about this, but they just are not very accurate, and long ranges exacerbate that.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 27, 2013 12:02 PM (aDwsi)

155 Jake - I started shooting at age 8 or 9 in an NRA program. One of the great things about it was that we used Springfield .22's Wish I had one now.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 27, 2013 12:05 PM (aDwsi)

156 AR-15s aren't accurate? Compared to what? I've always thought they were the most accurate weapons in their class (within the range limits of the cartridge.)

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 27, 2013 12:05 PM (celt+)

157 AR-15s aren't accurate? Compared to what? I've always thought they were the most accurate weapons in their class (within the range limits of the cartridge.) Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto ------------------- What others do you put in their class? It's all relative.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 27, 2013 12:07 PM (aDwsi)

158

Is it too nit-picky to ask that we not refer to firearms as weapons, unless the context demands it.

I realize that sounds silly, but the hoplophobes call all firearms weapons, because it sounds more menacing. As in "weapons of war belong to soldiers, not on the streets of America." (Never mind seeing every little-town cop trained with and issued one).

It doesn't matter with like-minded folks like us, but the words we use have an impact on those who think differently.

/bitch off

Posted by: normal man spitting on his hands at October 27, 2013 12:30 PM (agLwc)

159 Love my Savage 99... Killed a buck with it a few weeks ago.

Posted by: Uncle Jefe at October 27, 2013 01:29 PM (wX/ht)

160 Normal, you could call an AK-47 a basket of kittens, it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. Do you honestly believe we're giving more ammunition to people who freak out over chewed-into-gun-shape Pop Tarts?

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at October 27, 2013 01:58 PM (celt+)

161 Call it a gun,firearm, weapon what ever floats your boat. Call it a flippen boomstick for all I care. I'll refer to them as whatever term pops into my head when the term is needed. As for what the antis call them, if it became common to call them candy canes, they'd still demonize them. It's what they do. It's all they do. Calling the AR15 platform a modern sporting rifle didn't change one thing. The only thing the antis see is an EBR.

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at October 27, 2013 02:17 PM (MnSla)

162 I might make it to the ONT today hopefully can fill in the details there. We found some of the .22 rounds near the targets. They were flat as a pancake I may calc max ordinate between now and then I needed about as much at 415 up as i do at a mile with my other guns....

Posted by: Jake at October 27, 2013 03:19 PM (6ce4O)

163 AR-15's win all the contests so I'm not sure how inaccurate they are either

Posted by: DAve at October 27, 2013 03:33 PM (b7yum)

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