Ace of Spades HQ

November 17, 2013

Gun Thread (11-17-2013)
— andy

Fun with numbers

Americans overwhelmingly prefer firearms to Obamacare

During the same time period that only 106,185 people signed up to purchase Obamacare, a total of 1,687,599 background checks for firearm purchases went through the NICS system, according to the FBI.

"What a difference 90 degrees makes"

Anti-gun groups thrive on dishonesty, Exhibit 3,256,918:

Be sure to read the Charles C. W. Cooke piece I got this from.

Gun Of The Week

(answer below)

Marksmanship Award

Hero of the Day - NC: Woman was on phone with 911 when her husband shot and killed 21-year-old - http://t.co/X2rs99rM41 (via @fayobserver)
— Cam and Company (@CamAndCompany) November 15, 2013

Gun Of The Week - Answer

That's the Walther P38. More specifically, that's the P38 my little brother just added to his collection.

News You Can Use

Anti-gunners often compare the US murder rate to that of other countries in support of their contention that more gun control equals less crime. Let John Lott put you some f'n knowledge about comparisons with England & Wales:

A real problem is that homicides in England and Wales are not counted the same as in other countries. Most strikingly, their homicide numbers "exclude any cases which do not result in conviction, or where the person is not prosecuted on grounds of self defence or otherwise"
...
If taken literally, a simple comparison can be made. In 2012, the US murder rate was 4.7 per 100,000, a total of 14,827. Arrests amounted to only 7,133. Using only people who were arrested (not just convicted) would lower the US murder rate to 2.26 per 100,000. If about 2/3rds of those arrested are convicted, that would lower the rate to about 1.5 per 100,000. In 2011, the England and Wales had a homicide rate of about 1.15 per 100,000 ...

Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

The owner's manual for your concealed carry permit: The Law of Self Defense

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Celebrate America's firearms heritage: participate in Project Appleseed.

Posted by: andy at 05:47 AM | Comments (146)
Post contains 385 words, total size 4 kb.

1 Overturned canoe thread. Yay!!

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 17, 2013 05:49 AM (N/Sup)

2 Using those British statistical techniques, the DA in Chicago could solve the homicide problem overnight by just no longer bringing charges.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 17, 2013 05:51 AM (N/Sup)

3 James Bond's weapon of choice.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at November 17, 2013 05:54 AM (0HooB)

Lol Seamus.

in other news, rented a select fire supressed MP5 yesterday. That was pretty cool

Posted by: dudenolongerinsantacruz at November 17, 2013 05:54 AM (QH36x)

5 Whichever Moron recommended the Hogue grips last week......
Thank-you. Love the feel on the Stag.

Model-3 comes in at a good price point, but the stock pistol grip is nothing to write home about.

$21.49 at Amazon, free two day delivery, no sales tax,and I didn't lose the safety spring when I swapped em out.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at November 17, 2013 05:55 AM (NDA7a)

6 What's a P-38 go for?...I've only seen war trophies.

Posted by: BignJames at November 17, 2013 05:57 AM (HtUkt)

7 What does someone have to do to get credit for anything?

Posted in a thread on Nov 15 that video of the can meeting the concrete. Here is the link I posted no less -
http://www.theprepperjournal.com/2013/11/05/open-can-without-can-opener

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 17, 2013 05:58 AM (xhhOl)

I though it looked kinda Waltherish but the barrel was way to long.

I just bought The Law of Self Defense in the hopes that some day soon diving equipment will be available to reach the deepest depths of Smith Lake where my tragic boating accidents happened.

Posted by: Gmac - Pondering the implosion upon us at November 17, 2013 05:58 AM (4pjhs)

9 I would second Andy's ongoing recommendation to read The Law of Self Defense. Well worth the time and investment for anybody who carries concealed.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 17, 2013 05:59 AM (N/Sup)

10 for anybody who carries concealed.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 17, 2013 09:59 AM (N/Sup)

...or might use guns in other contexts for self defense.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 17, 2013 06:02 AM (N/Sup)

11 Statistics: thank you Mark Twain for your comparative forms description of deception. "There are lies, damn lies and statistics." Regarding the crime numbers, in the words of James May only an "utter pillock" brandishes stats like those in the post. Remember we had loads of good reasons to drive out the Redcoats and to enshrine in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution the reasons for the struggle against The Crown. Good work on the gun thread. The P38 is a curio with a few worthy lessons. Please be careful with it. Thanks, Andy!

Posted by: DM at November 17, 2013 06:03 AM (LaKlJ)

12 Yeah, one of the local libs posted that propaganda.

Said they were "bullying" the moms.

Anyway, same guy that blamed the loon in AZ on Palin's "target map."

Of course you know he corrected the record when facts came out that didn't support his position, right?

Posted by: RoyalOil at November 17, 2013 06:04 AM (VjL9S)

13 What do P-38s go for? Well usually can get 2 for under a dollar.

Oh you mean the noise maker... well it depends. On www.gunbrokers.com the prices range from $395 for one to almost $6,000 for an engraved one still in box.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 17, 2013 06:05 AM (xhhOl)

14 3 James Bond's weapon of choice.

--------------------

Wrong Walther. He used a PPK in 7.65mm.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 06:06 AM (celt+)

15 Beware comparative statistics in any setting. The WHO ranking of countries based on stats like life expectancy and infant mortality is another prime example. Many of the European countries don't count premature deliveries below a certain gestational age as live births, whereas in the U.S. any newborn that has a detectable heart rate and respiratory effort, no matter how minimal, is considered a live birth.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 17, 2013 06:09 AM (N/Sup)

16 Semi O/T

Barky O'Dogeaters plan to just turn a blind eye to the existence of now substandard (Illegal) HealthCare policies tracks pretty close to Maryland's solution for the newly enacted Md gun laws.
The plan is to issue a statement of intend to not prosecute.

This is somewhat different from saying "The new regulation is not lawfull,and is null and void"

Speaking of which, a Moron with an understanding of law could go backin time to California.
Years ago, the State elected to release hundreds of firearms to purchasers that the new California law made illegal.

Anti-Gunners,afraid of progress and moving forward, took the case to the Supreme Court, who ruled that the fact that the State had no right to ignore a law,and forced the State to retrieve each firearm.

Could be some connection there to what happens with Barky's solution if the SC determines in 9 months that the actions of the Federal Government were illegal while attempting to push VasaCare forward.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at November 17, 2013 06:09 AM (NDA7a)

17 I prefer my 1921 built Luger, even if it is only a police model. My Uncle took it off a body partially submerged in a ditch. I got it when I was 14 and spent years cleaning it up. It has mis-matched numbers so the value is at the low end of the chart.

But what a natural pointer and sweet shooter.

Posted by: Trainer's looking to join a Militia. at November 17, 2013 06:09 AM (7EbAY)

18 The photographer had to take the pic at that angle. He would've melted if he got a direct look at the American Flag.

Posted by: Roy at November 17, 2013 06:09 AM (tiOTz)

19 Boating accidents, while a great running joke - are simply no substitute for a genuine plan of action to deal with a confiscation scenario. When threatened with lengthy imprisonment, freezing of bank accounts, or removal of children by State Agents unless the "illegal" firearms or equipment are surrendered - claiming ignorance of their current location is not an effective strategy.

I urge you all to give more thought to this matter. When the Kings Agents come, you're going to have a bloody fight on your hands, not a debate.

Posted by: Sir Francis Puffbladder at November 17, 2013 06:09 AM (XIrbA)

20 I saw somewhere a re-interpretation of the homicide stats worldwide as "death by gun" -- eye opening (but racist).

Posted by: Jean at November 17, 2013 06:10 AM (CMlD4)

21 Got a chance to fondle a CZ-75 a couple days ago at my LGS. Actually fondled two, a full size and a Compact.

My God. I've never had a pistol feel better in my hand.

I was there to pick up my Stag stripped lower, and another 9mm pistol is definitely not in the budget (I'm still mourning the boat-accidenting of my Beretta M9 and Browning Hi-Power). I walked away. But I've been pining ever since. I may just take a long lunch hour tomorrow...

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 06:11 AM (celt+)

22 What's a P-38 go for?...I've only seen war trophies. The only retailer I see with them at the moment is SoG @ $739. A few months back they were 500-600. You can get a P1 instead for $339.95 at SoG.

Posted by: toby928© at November 17, 2013 06:11 AM (QupBk)

23 My Cabelas has a bunch of nice wartime P-38s. Didn't notice the prices. Too busy drooling over a Waffenampt-marked Radom Vis on the same shelf.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 06:14 AM (celt+)

24 @14 And the PPK was what he was ordered to use. His choice was the cute little Beretta .25 ("007...just leave the Beretta"). I have one--really, not enough there to justify a kayak flip--and it's some of my loveliest jewelry. Like a tie tac.

Amusing in retrospect to read Boothroyd praising the 7.65's stopping power, "like a brick through a plate glass window." ISTR we had a complete-ish talk on this once (pace A.Puma if you were the info source on that). Boothroyd was a real man, more ways than one, and Fleming knew next to nothing about firearms, but then again those were different times, when the .38 Spl was considered heavy duty.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at November 17, 2013 06:14 AM (xq1UY)

25 Wrong Walther. He used a PPK in 7.65mm.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 10:06 AM (celt+)

Only because they forced him to give up his beloved Beretta.

Posted by: DangerGirl, home sweet home at November 17, 2013 06:16 AM (GrtrJ)

26 OT, yes I know, instead of Bashir's vomit, why not link Surber's very understanding review of Good Tidings, in the Charleston Daily Mail,
it is slightly on point, since Todd gave her a 30 06 rifle, that can fell a rifle at 300 yards,

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at November 17, 2013 06:16 AM (Jsiw/)

27 And on the crime numbers, note also that Japan, as I recall, doesn't count a murder as a murder unless someone is actually convicted.

So a body full of bullet holes in a dumpster is a "illegally disposing of a body" classification.

And it's like the infant mortality rates they always throw out. Most other countries don't count stillborn in their numbers. Many, as I recall, don't even count those that die within a day or so either.

Or their oft-touted claims of how life is better in the welfare utopias built by the dirty Scandis. Then you read about their daily lives--tiny apartments/homes, affording only sack lunches every day, shitbox two-cylinder cars, etc.--a life poorer than most Americans.

Every statistic a liberal uses is a lie in some way or form.

Posted by: RoyalOil at November 17, 2013 06:16 AM (VjL9S)

28 Jesse James colt .45 will be auctioned on Nov. 24 http://tinyurl.com/lkco7xg

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at November 17, 2013 06:17 AM (8JJ6O)

29 Heh, Stringer beat me to it.

Posted by: DangerGirl, home sweet home at November 17, 2013 06:17 AM (GrtrJ)

30 I have a P38 as well. I love it

Posted by: Ben at November 17, 2013 06:18 AM (K0gEv)

@19- First rule of Fight Club is you don't talk about Fight Club.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 17, 2013 06:19 AM (N/Sup)

32 P38's are cool. They are a true example of firearm evolution. You have your open top slide (Beretta). Takedown switch (like a Luger, but no sideplate. Double action and hammer drop safety like earlier Walthers. Stamped parts where you can get by. The only gripe I would have is the mag release. A lot of this stuff came back in Beretta 92 development. There are a lot of P1's available for about $350-400, usually in primo condition. These are simply P38's with an alloy frame made after ww2 for police and military. I would never be ashamed to have one for personal protection.

Posted by: Bill at November 17, 2013 06:19 AM (uvyrw)

33 I handled a P-38 once, it just did not fit well in these big ham hocks I call hands!

Posted by: Old Dog at November 17, 2013 06:20 AM (tQYJH)

34 24 @14 And the PPK was what he was ordered to use. His choice was the cute little Beretta .25 ("007...just leave the Beretta"). I have one--really, not enough there to justify a kayak flip--and it's some of my loveliest jewelry. Like a tie tac.

-------------------

Yep, I've got a Model 21 in .22LR myself. Interestingly, if you look quickly at that scene you're referring to in the film "Dr. No", he does remove a Beretta from his holster and place it on the desk, but it appears to be a Model 1935 - substantially larger than the .25, in either 7.65mm or 9mm Corto. In other words, the same size and calibers as the Walther PPK.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 06:20 AM (celt+)

35 I am not a 007phile, so that would not be me in any fashion popping off on a certain agent's weapon of choice.

http://youtu.be/ZM1fkHQP_Pw

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 17, 2013 06:23 AM (xhhOl)

don't count stillborn in their numbers.

Not to be too nit-picky, but stillborns are not counted as live births in the U.S. Definition of stillborn is "born dead".

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 17, 2013 06:23 AM (N/Sup)

37 My dad bought a P-38 for dirt cheap about 1970. When he got it home, he realized that the holster had a Nazi eagle and swastika on it and the pistol had the eagle stamped into the receiver. He still has it.

Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at November 17, 2013 06:23 AM (1hekh)

38 After six years trying again for a class-A unrestricted LTC in Boston "for all lawful purposes". Hope Hell freezes over in time.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 17, 2013 06:25 AM (KCvsd)

39 Finished the four books available in Larry Corriea's Monster Hunter series. He certainly seems to know guns and the people who use them including joking about the brand chauvinism of some characters..

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, assault Hobbit at November 17, 2013 06:26 AM (Pexsc)

40 I assume hunting is OK in the gun thread? (Same general area.) Bought my Any Deer Fire Arm tag yesterday. Dicks used to give you $10 off $50 when you bought a hunting tag from them, but I guess that is no more (or at least the only coupon was if I took a survey.) Next weekend should be fun. Go out Thursday night, Hunt Friday, Saturday, and most of Sunday (if needed). Hopefully I'll have decent luck this year for once. (I'm open to any tips.) I think I've mentioned before but I shoot a 12gague Sabot Slug gun for this. (Bought because I didn't have money for a rifle, but I scrapped up enough for a used barrel to go on the Mossberg.)

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No really!) at November 17, 2013 06:29 AM (GaqMa)

41 Days of Our Trailers: "Safe Storage" = Home Searches http://tinyurl.com/kj8rf29

Posted by: BornLib at November 17, 2013 06:30 AM (zpNwC)

42 "Don't trust anything from anti gun pages." Truer words and all that. Mornin' all.

Posted by: RWC at November 17, 2013 06:31 AM (LpbKr)

43 Some more Walther PPK trivia:

While the 7.65mm (.32 ACP) chambering was more common in Europe, in America the PPK is more commonly encountered in .380 ACP (which the Germans call 9mm Kurz.) Because "Kurz" means "Short", the "K" in "PPK" is commonly thought to stand for either "Kurz" or "Kompakt" (to distinguish the PPK from the slightly longer PP). It actually stands for "Kriminal", which I understand refers to German police detective divisions called "Kriminalpolizei", since the smaller PPK was designed for undercover and plainclothes work.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 06:32 AM (celt+)

44 Glock Steps Up In Challenge To California's Handgun Roster http://tinyurl.com/mmu3lao

Posted by: BornLib at November 17, 2013 06:33 AM (zpNwC)

45 "Anti-gun groups Democrats thrive on dishonesty, Exhibit 3,256,918:"

FTFY.

And it is impossible to include that many pathological liars in any society and expect it to survive. So either they're leaving or we are. And I ain't leaving.

Posted by: SDN at November 17, 2013 06:33 AM (Hq48F)

46 Pixy, if the d*mn Strike button don't work, remove the sucker. IT interface design 101.

Posted by: SDN at November 17, 2013 06:35 AM (Hq48F)

47 Danger Girl, I perceive you are "reeking of cordite." I like that in a woman.

There was a damn near officers' revolt when Hitler forced the cheap P-38 on a Korps that had been patiently awaiting their turn for a Luger. How times change.

If I recall my pecking-order of snobbery aright, owners of broom-handle Mausers (especially the long-range, long-barreled artillery officer's model) are allowed to look down on mere Luger luggers. A Borchardt, one imagines, trumps all.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at November 17, 2013 06:35 AM (xq1UY)

48 Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 17, 2013 10:25 AM (KCvsd)

Even in the small Mass. towns, where your local chief is willing to issue unrestricted LTCs, the wait is still 6+ months. Seems that the state police is now the bottleneck. Administrative gun control, thanks to Gov. Mini-me?

My class A comes up for renewal in 8 months. I'm not sure how early I should apply so I don't end up with an expired permit.

Posted by: Rule #2 at November 17, 2013 06:36 AM (FeL1i)

49 The SAF is challenging a law that says legal aliens cannot get carry permits in AK. http://tinyurl.com/nwtzo33

Posted by: BornLib at November 17, 2013 06:36 AM (zpNwC)

50 Well,NRO is getting close.

I asked here about a more intelligent Moron then myself looking at the illegality of the VasaCare recovery program put forth by Barky O'Dogeater.

Looks like NRO's article comes pretty close to that.
But I wish a smarter Moron then myself could pen an article specifically comparing VasaCare Recovery to California's failed attempt to say "Even though it's illegal, we will let you keep your guns".

http://tinyurl.com/lrzwlnm

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at November 17, 2013 06:37 AM (NDA7a)

51 A Borchardt, one imagines, trumps all.

-------------------

Makes sense, since you practically need Trump's money to buy one.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 06:39 AM (celt+)

52 50 - wrong thread, VIA.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 06:40 AM (celt+)

53 Impeach the LICUS!

Posted by: OG Celtic-American at November 17, 2013 06:41 AM (vHRtU)

54 Well crossing the streams here.

Tonight is our local NaNoWriMo Night of Writing Dangerously. Basically get together and write as much as possible using such tricks as speed challenges.

The trouble comes from where it is being hosted. South of Jackson in Hinds County at a small church in a strip mall. A place I have never been to before.

So I will be packing, in the backpack all zipped up. And as long as nothing happens no one will ever know it was there.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 17, 2013 06:41 AM (xhhOl)

55 Philly Looking to Ban 3D Printing of Guns http://tinyurl.com/jvoezm4

Posted by: BornLib at November 17, 2013 06:43 AM (zpNwC)

56 "50 - wrong thread, VIA."

Damn it Jim, I'm an Apprentice, not a physicist.

*facepalm*

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at November 17, 2013 06:46 AM (NDA7a)

57 #48 "My class A comes up for renewal in 8 months. I'm not sure how early I should apply so I don't end up with an expired permit." There is a grace period for renewal. It is best to check with your local PD about how long it has been taking the average applicant. Boston has become relatively easy, if not slow, to approve restricted (target shooting only) class-A licenses after the proctological exam during the application process and the range test at Moon Island. It's become somewhat clear that the only way to get unrestricted is to prove you are a doctor, lawyer, crime victim, business owner making large cash deposits, celebrity, friend of the mayor, law enforcement, or have had a restricted LTC for many many years with no issues. Apparently this isn't a BPD issue but a directive from the mayor. The people at police HQ six years ago, except for one Sargent which will remain unnamed, and at Moon Island were all professional and non-hostile. Don't know if that has changed.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 17, 2013 06:48 AM (KCvsd)

58 Got the Law of Self Defense some time back, but haven't had time to read it yet. Its on the list for the Thanksgiving/Christmas break.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at November 17, 2013 06:48 AM (60Vyp)

Next weekend should be fun. Go out Thursday night, Hunt Friday, Saturday, and most of Sunday (if needed). Hopefully I'll have decent luck this year for once. (I'm open to any tips.)

Good luck. Just got back from our annual Deer hunt. Now it's time to try and knock down an Elk.

Posted by: garrett at November 17, 2013 06:49 AM (xDZBG)

60 The clearance rate for homicides in Detroit in 2011 was 21%. For the first half of this year, police had solved 50 of 214 murders in Chicago (under 25%), which was better than last year.

I guess the rest of the country (you know, flyoverland) must do a much better job of solving killings if the overall arrest rate is near 50%.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 17, 2013 06:50 AM (cHZB7)

61 Nick JohnsonÂ’s Â“Firearms Policy and the Black Community: An Assessment of the Modern OrthodoxyÂ” (PDF) from the Connecticut Law Review: Firearms Issue http://tinyurl.com/l6epkwe

Posted by: BornLib at November 17, 2013 06:50 AM (zpNwC)

62 55 Philly Looking to Ban 3D Printing of Guns Three Democrat champions of freedom want to extend the ban by Senate action, too. http://goo.gl/3YPGPw

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at November 17, 2013 06:51 AM (JQuNB)

63 My Dad brought a P38 home from the Great Unpleasantness along with a nice Artillery Luger. He was forced to sell the Walther when he was going to school on the GI Bill (wife and 2 kids to support), but I have the Luger, as well as the 1911A1 that he swapped a pair of paratrooper boots for.

Posted by: That SOB van Owen at November 17, 2013 06:57 AM (8bBsO)

64 Fellow travelers of Mr. Ayers' Weather Underground group, who discussed they may have to murder up to 25 million Americans who refuse to come along quietly, are packed into our current Government (and Educational) structure, and working tirelessly to bring their plans to fruition. I did say 'urge you to give more thought', not "spill the beans on a public forum" - for it's only a matter of time before they do exactly what they said they were going to do.

I think there are many, many, many, many, many, many Americans who believe "it can't happen here".

I believe not only that it can, but it will... or they're sure going to make a hell of a go at it.

Posted by: Sir Francis Puffbladder at November 17, 2013 06:58 AM (XIrbA)

65 tsrblke- there is no substitute for scouting ahead. Don't know where you're at so I don't if the rut is still on for you. Enter your area from the downwind side if possible. Set up, in a tree stand if possible, downwind from a travel route. You learn those by scouting. Do not snap your head around when you hear something. A squirrel can make a lot of noise in dry leaves and sound like a deer. Slow movements. Happiness is a large gut pile. Be safe!!! And good luck!

Posted by: teej at November 17, 2013 06:59 AM (GX2fm)

Happiness is a large gut pile.

Happiness is a downhill drag to the truck.

Posted by: garrett at November 17, 2013 07:00 AM (xDZBG)

67 Rampage Killings And Media Complicity http://tinyurl.com/l4joe6c

Posted by: BornLib at November 17, 2013 07:02 AM (zpNwC)

68 Friend missed a 6 pointer yesterday because he wanted more use from his muzzle loader. Only 2nd time out with it and wasn't quick enough with the scope.

Posted by: RWC at November 17, 2013 07:04 AM (LpbKr)

I believe not only that it can, but it will... or they're sure going to make a hell of a go at it.

Posted by: Sir Francis Puffbladder at November 17, 2013 10:58 AM (XIrbA)

It already has happened. It was called the American Civil War.

Posted by: ExSnipe at November 17, 2013 07:04 AM (57ubW)

70 "Nick JohnsonÂ’s Â“Firearms Policy and the Black Community: An Assessment of the Modern OrthodoxyÂ” (PDF) from the Connecticut Law Review: Firearms Issue

http://tinyurl.com/l6epkwe"

The talking points to support the "Affordable Handgun Act" jump out of that PDF, and effortlessly write themselves.

Why do Liberals hate minority women of color, many of whom are single mothers?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at November 17, 2013 07:04 AM (NDA7a)

Teej, is giving out good advice, though.

The wind is the primary consideration. If it shifts, or changes you need to react accordingly. Bad wind = Bad hunt.

If you aren't in a stand and are stalking, match feet with every step and glass with your binos.

No matter how slow you are moving, you can go slower. Every step you take opens new angles and lines of sight. You need to work those binos if you want to walk up on a Whitetail.

Posted by: garrett at November 17, 2013 07:04 AM (xDZBG)

72 http://tinyurl.com/kd34wn5 Reading, PA. Two masked robbers enter a convenience store, pointing stolen revolvers at the clerk. A citizen outside sees this, calls 911. When the robbers exit the store, they threaten him, and he shoots and kills both. Now, their families "demand justice"

Posted by: BornLib at November 17, 2013 07:04 AM (zpNwC)

73 I ordered and read Laws of Self Defense and IMHO it should be mandatory for all CCW classes. About thirty years ago I bought a Mauser P38 (byf 44), Walther PPK (1935) and Mauser HsC (193

- all in like new condition with Nazi proof marks and holsters - $1200 for all three. The P38 holster even has the original owner's name written on the inside of the flap. Alas, after all these years in a safe they are going on the market. My deal with the wife is that I can get a Ruger SR22 (for range time and plinking), a Walther PPQ and an AR15 Grendel 6.5 mm as long as there is no additional cash outlay. BTW, I think this particular P38 will bring a little over $1K but I need to do a little more research.

Posted by: Radar at November 17, 2013 07:06 AM (KzmOC)

Oh, and make sure all of your clothes and gear are as scent free as can be.

No scented soaps, shampoos and/or deodorant either. Same goes for fabric softeners.

Posted by: garrett at November 17, 2013 07:07 AM (xDZBG)

75 Posted by: BornLib at November 17, 2013 11:04 AM (zpNwC) Read about those two choir boys earlier this week.

Posted by: RWC at November 17, 2013 07:07 AM (LpbKr)

76 WTF - Mauser HsC 1938

Posted by: Radar at November 17, 2013 07:07 AM (KzmOC)

77 I urge you all to give more thought to this matter. When the Kings Agents come, you're going to have a bloody fight on your hands, not a debate.

Posted by: Sir Francis Puffbladder

Yes, I jest about it but the reality is that I probably have more firepower available at my immeadiate reach than most small police departments and if they come for it I will not be afraid to show them how it works. That, I do not jest about.

I will not live in a tyranny where protection is offered at the point of a gun.

Posted by: Gmac - Pondering the implosion upon us at November 17, 2013 07:08 AM (4pjhs)

78 Dang formatting gremilns

Posted by: Gmac - Pondering the implosion upon us at November 17, 2013 07:08 AM (4pjhs)

79 Video: Eugene Volokh, Dave Kopel, Sanford Levinson, and Alan Dershowitz have Second Amendment Debate http://tinyurl.com/nxbxjd2

Posted by: BornLib at November 17, 2013 07:09 AM (zpNwC)

80 76 WTF - Mauser HsC 1938 Posted by: Radar at November 17, 2013 11:07 AM (KzmOC We just thought you were showing off

Posted by: RWC at November 17, 2013 07:09 AM (LpbKr)

81 Posted by: teej at November 17, 2013 10:59 AM (GX2fm) Thanks. The property is about 4 hours from here in Mark Twain Forest, so I haven't been able to do any scouting. My friend who invited me has done scouted said he's found some trails (that aren't near his tree stand) and will show me where they are (in the dark when we arrive.) If I can't set up there, there are two ponds on the property that they put salt licks near which have been good in the past. Sadly I'm afraid of heights so a tree stand is a no go.

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No really!) at November 17, 2013 07:09 AM (GaqMa)

82 My contribution to the gun thread is to say that I love my new 357. But, I don't intend to shoot a whole lot of 357 through it because dang, it's like a jackhammer. With 38 it's more akin to a pop gun.

Posted by: traye at November 17, 2013 07:11 AM (SddQL)

83 21 Got a chance to fondle a CZ-75 a couple days ago at my LGS. Actually fondled two, a full size and a Compact. My God. I've never had a pistol feel better in my hand. ... I walked away. But I've been pining ever since. I may just take a long lunch hour tomorrow... Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 10:11 AM (celt+) Taro, welcome to one of the best-kept secrets in the gun world, CZ handguns (actually, CZ ANYTHING). Don't balk, go grab that 75, or the compact/P01 if you want a shorter barrel for IWB carry. Get a pair of thin aluminum grips from CZ Custom, and that thing shrinks down to nothing, I swear it's as easy to conceal as my Kahr PM9...which I quit carrying everyday once I figured out I could carry 14+1 just as easy. Okay, a little exaggerated, but...surprisingly easy to IWB EDC. What makes it so slender is the fact that the slide rides rails INSIDE the frame, not a common design. Also, Jeff Cooper (well known for his love of the 1911, right?) loved the CZ design, only thing he didn't like was the caliber, and was trying to get a copy produced in 10mm (look up the Bren Ten). Anyway, have I gushed enough? Get the 75. And the Compact, lol. You seriously won't regret it. I've even converted Glock guys to CZ with my 75 (and you know how cultish those f*ckers are!). Do it. Do it now. =) And welcome to Czechnology. Just be warned, your gunsafe will, at somepoint, become a haven for lost and wayward Czechs, so leave some room for growth.

Posted by: Oedipus, determined to RIDE THE DECLINE at November 17, 2013 07:11 AM (Tjkt6)

84 Posted by: garrett at November 17, 2013 11:07 AM (xDZBG) Everything's been washed in Scent Away and in it's scent bag. I'll show with scent away soap Thursday and bring it down. I'll also spray with the aersol scent away can before I go out each morning. I won't be stalking I usually sit on a bucket up ridge from my target area.

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No really!) at November 17, 2013 07:12 AM (GaqMa)

85 but I have the [Artillery] Luger, as well as the 1911A1 that he swapped a pair of paratrooper boots for.

Posted by: That SOB van Owen

------------------------

First... an Artillery Luger? You lucky, lucky bastard.

Second... awesome nickname. Keep your head down if you find yourself in Mombasa drinking gin.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 07:13 AM (celt+)

86 http://tinyurl.com/k5p73og "The fees and the obstacles to the exercise of their Constitutional right faced by most residents of New York now are as prohibitive as those placed upon the freedmen of the former Confederacy in the late 1870s. Army and Navy revolvers were quite expensive, but at least they were legally available to all. Trying to obtain an Army M9 or a Navy M11 pistol in New York City would be impossible by law and doubly so by the misuse of the law by the bureaucrats. For one, both carry more than 7 rounds in their magazines Â— illegal under the ill-named SAFE Act. Even the percussion revolvers of the mid-19th century Â— not even considered firearms under Federal law Â— are about as heavily restricted. WhereÂ’s the Civil Rights act for those who live in NYC? Where are the Federal marshals keeping NYPD at bay to enable the exercise of the rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment?"

Posted by: BornLib at November 17, 2013 07:14 AM (zpNwC)

87 Good advice from garrett too. Also, study the natural sounds and use them for stalking (also called still hunting, don't ask me why). Don't just step on leaves. Use your foot to brush them aside. This can mimic a squirrel's sound if you have to make noise. Also an unseen twig can go snap under those leaves. If it's windy move when it's causing the most noise. Be the woods. You have a firearm but a deer has every other advantage out there. And deer tend to not move much when it's windy. Be safe!!!!

Posted by: teej at November 17, 2013 07:15 AM (L7JQT)

88 Posted by: teej at November 17, 2013 11:15 AM (L7JQT) Safety first. The only two things I plan on harming are a deer and my liver after sundown.

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No really!) at November 17, 2013 07:17 AM (GaqMa)

89 Oedipus, I've lusted for a CZ-75 since reading about it in Soldier of Fortune magazine back in the late '70s/early '80s (when I was the kind of testosterone-addled teen who read SoF).

I've always maintained that if CZ charged 50% MORE for the CZ-75, it would be the most well-regarded auto pistol in America.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 07:18 AM (celt+)

If you are stand hunting, front cover AND back cover is key. Too many guys only take advantage of one or the other.

Don't be that guy. Make sure you are screened and make sure you have good back cover and you can get away with a lot more as far as movement goes.

Posted by: garrett at November 17, 2013 07:22 AM (xDZBG)

91 Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No really!) at November 17, 2013 11:17 AM (GaqMa)

Don't forget a rifle.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2013 07:24 AM (oJ5Fd)

92 I have about $5,000 worth of CZs on BudsGunShop in my "notify me when in stock" bucket, and my bank account is hoping they remain there, lol. Just got notified that the CZ 455 FS is in stock last week, but picked up an American with a threaded barrel from my LGS this week instead, now saving up for my Tax Stamp and a can. I was just this morning looking at CZ 550 FS in both .243 and .308. They can share the CZ 750 10-round detachable box magazine interchangeably. See? Right there, $2,000 with just a couple of 10-rounders, and that's not even with any glass on them. (I'm thinking Leupold VX-R Hog in QR dovetail mounts would be the ticket).

Posted by: Oedipus, determined to RIDE THE DECLINE at November 17, 2013 07:25 AM (Tjkt6)

93 Anyway, have I gushed enough? Get the 75. And the Compact, lol. You seriously won't regret it. I've even converted Glock guys to CZ with my 75 (and you know how cultish those f*ckers are!).

Do it. Do it now. =)

And welcome to Czechnology.

Just be warned, your gunsafe will, at somepoint, become a haven for lost and wayward Czechs, so leave some room for growth.

Posted by: Oedipus, determined to RIDE THE DECLINE at November 17, 2013 11:11 AM (Tjkt6)

Those things rock. I had a chance to fire one years ago. The trigger pull was smooth as hell, it was just an amazing feeling piece. I liked how the slide rode high enough so it didn't bite you like the 1911s can. Really, it was very nice.

Posted by: Berserker- Dragonheads Div at November 17, 2013 07:26 AM (FMbng)

94 Posted by: Oedipus, determined to RIDE THE DECLINE at November 17, 2013 11:11 AM (Tjkt6) I got a P-07 a couple yrs ago....wish I had gotten it in .40

Posted by: BignJames at November 17, 2013 07:34 AM (HtUkt)

95 Sounds like a good reason to pick another one up in .40. =) CZs get lonely. Cuz they're all about LOVE.

Posted by: Oedipus, determined to RIDE THE DECLINE at November 17, 2013 07:35 AM (Tjkt6)

96 our friend the Walther P-38/P-1

Posted by: sven at November 17, 2013 07:41 AM (9jfyN)

97 In "The Relentless March to Idiocracy" news:

Jesse James (the douchebag, not the dead outlaw) has started a gun company called - prepare to be shocked - JJFU (Jesse James Firearms Unlimited). He'll be making ARs and 1911s. No doubt they'll be paragons of tasteful functionality. And yes, there will be a reality show. Sponsored by Brawndo! The Thirst Mutilator! It's got what plants crave!

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 07:47 AM (celt+)

98 http://tinyurl.com/kdx8ur2 Arceneaux's cousin approached the home, kicked in the door in and entered, [Lafayette Parish Sheriff's Department Captain Kip] Judice said. Inside, he found Thomas with the woman. Thomas then began stabbing Arceneaux, and a confrontation ensued. "The cousin, who was armed, began firing several shots at Thomas," Judice said. "After a couple of shots, [Arceneaux] was able to get free of him and they escorted her out of the house." ... Meanwhile, officers who heard the gun shots fired surrounded the home, Judice said. Upon entering, they found Thomas' lifeless body on the ground. He had sustained several gunshot wounds. Thomas' cause of death is not known, Judice said.

Posted by: BornLib at November 17, 2013 07:49 AM (zpNwC)

99
Got a chance to fondle a CZ-75 a couple days ago at my LGS. Actually fondled two, a full size and a Compact.

My God. I've never had a pistol feel better in my hand.

I was there to pick up my Stag stripped lower, and another 9mm pistol is definitely not in the budget (I'm still mourning the boat-accidenting of my Beretta M9 and Browning Hi-Power). I walked away. But I've been pining ever since. I may just take a long lunch hour tomorrow...

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 10:11 AM (celt+)

What Oedipus said.

I've got a bone-stock P01 that's ALMOST as comfortable as my BHP with nicely shaped aftermarket grips that practically melts into your hand. Less muzzle-flip than the BHP as well (the thin slide and insanely low bore axis makes muzzle-flip almost nonexistent). Accuracy like a laser, with boring reliability.

The only downside is the P01's mushy, stagey stock military trigger. I've learned to live with it, but it's not finished like the other CZ75 triggers. From what I understand, they purposely designed it to be relatively unfinished so that military armorers could just swap parts without having to deal with hand fitting. On the other hand, the internet scuttlebutt is that it's capable of an SA trigger pull to rival a custom 1911, when a proper CZ smith like Cajun Gun Works or CZ Custom gets their hands on it.

Shootable P38s are in stock at jgsales.com right now for $579.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 17, 2013 07:51 AM (MBqvE)

100 whereas in the U.S. any newborn that has a detectable heart rate and respiratory effort, no matter how minimal, is considered a live birth.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 17, 2013 10:09 AM (N/Sup)

And I recently heard an ad on the radio lamenting the fact that the US leads the world in premature births, which I thought was kind of a feature instead of a bug. I think it's pretty incredible that we can save the kids that are born so early and fix most of the problems that go along with that.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 17, 2013 08:04 AM (yh0zB)

101 IllTemperedCur, I've upgraded the triggers on both of my P01s to the...uh, what the hell are they, CZ 85 combat triggers? Less curved, thicker depth, in stainless, with overtravel screw. It's a SIGNIFICANT improvement over the stock trigger. Just be forewarned...it requires THREE F**KING HANDS to work on the disassembled trigger assembly. If I'd have had a swear jar, that thing would have been filled to the brim by the time I got done. But very worth the upgrade. You could also send it to Angus to have him do the work if you don't WECSOG.

Posted by: Oedipus, determined to RIDE THE DECLINE at November 17, 2013 08:04 AM (Tjkt6)

102 "I've even converted Glock guys to CZ with my 75 (and you know how cultish those f*ckers are!)."

Heh. I have two of them but I've permanently ruined my chances at fanboi status because I don't sing the praises of the jam-prone Glock 36. Mine is OK now that I've changed the recoil springs out.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 17, 2013 08:07 AM (yh0zB)

103 Good deer hunting advice above . I'd like to add , get a portable ground blind . There are many advantages . Allows you to move more inside the blind thereby increasing comfort and lessening fatigue , lets you stay out longer . Helps to control your scent somewhat . No searching for a suitable tree for your stand . I quit hunting from tree stands entirely . Ground blinds rock .

Posted by: awkward davies at November 17, 2013 08:08 AM (WK8VM)

104 Thomas' cause of death is not known, Judice said.

Posted by: BornLib at November 17, 2013 11:49 AM (zpNwC)

Like the joke I heard about the guy who was shot 5 times in the chest, the weapon used was nearby. A bolt action rifle. It was ruled a clear cut case of suicide. The guy telling the story said "This requires a degree of determination that I do not possess." No kidding.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 17, 2013 08:09 AM (yh0zB)

105 Hey GGE, me and The B-Man (another lurking moron) are here local to you, and both shooters. We should hook up sometime and go play. =)

Posted by: Oedipus, determined to RIDE THE DECLINE at November 17, 2013 08:10 AM (Tjkt6)

106 We should hook up sometime and go play. =)

Posted by: Oedipus, determined to RIDE THE DECLINE at November 17, 2013 12:10 PM (Tjkt6)

Sweet! EC and Tobacco Road are also locals.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 17, 2013 08:12 AM (yh0zB)

107 Ground Blinds are awesome. Just make sure you 'tag' them with some Blaze Orange if you are hunting in rifle / muzzleloader / slug country.

Posted by: garrett at November 17, 2013 08:15 AM (cp80l)

108 Heh. I have two of them but I've permanently ruined my chances at fanboi status because I don't sing the praises of the jam-prone Glock 36. Mine is OK now that I've changed the recoil springs out. Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 17, 2013 12:07 PM (yh0zB) Get a 75 and a Glock, load a full mag and hold them 90-degrees outward in your hand and fire them into a berm (only at a safe place, obviously, follow safety procedures, blahblahblah)...meaning, simulate a limp-wrist or injury and less-than-perfect grip situation, hold the grip in a ring with thumb and one or two non-trigger fingers, hope you know what I'm trying to say...and see which one functions till the end of the mag dump. I'd always bought into the Glock-reliability-bar-none-whatchutalkinboutwillis meme, even though I never liked Glocks because of the grip angle, but that simple test sold me on the fact I made the right purchase. That Glock jammed about 3 rounds in, the 75 emptied 15 rounds. Was a really neat test.

Posted by: Oedipus, determined to RIDE THE DECLINE at November 17, 2013 08:19 AM (Tjkt6)

109 108 Oedipus, determined to RIDE THE DECLINE at November 17, 2013 12:19 PM (Tjkt6)

The Caracal is a Product Improved Glock along with the Steyr M-9 series.

I like the 75, I am fond of the S_W 39/59 but my jelly spot on semi-autos is the simple HP-35

Posted by: sven10077 at November 17, 2013 08:25 AM (9jfyN)

110 99 IllTemperedCur at November 17, 2013 11:51 AM (MBqvE)

I'm a late convert to the cult of muzzle flip, it is part of why I like the Rhino.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 17, 2013 08:27 AM (9jfyN)

111 That Glock jammed about 3 rounds in, the 75 emptied 15 rounds.

Was a really neat test.

Posted by: Oedipus, determined to RIDE THE DECLINE at November 17, 2013 12:19 PM (Tjkt6)

I took my un-modified 36 to a class at Tigerswan where we were expecting to shoot around 500 rounds and brought two full boxes of 100 back with me. I did, however, get good at clearing malfunctions (FTE). (fml) Not an uncommon issue. http://g36mf.blogspot.com/

I changed the spring on it and haven't had a problem since. I also have a 19 (9mm) that I haven't had any problems with, but I haven't put very many rounds through it either.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 17, 2013 08:30 AM (yh0zB)

112 Oedipus, I've lusted for a CZ-75 since reading about it in Soldier of Fortune magazine back in the late '70s/early '80s (when I was the kind of testosterone-addled teen who read SoF).

I've always maintained that if CZ charged 50% MORE for the CZ-75, it would be the most well-regarded auto pistol in America.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 11:18 AM (celt+)

Thats too funny. I used to read that mag too in the early 80's. The CZ-75 wasn't available in the US until "somewhere" around 1985, but before that a friend of mine used always dream about having one, he saw them in the SOF mag too. When they first appeared in the stores he ran right out and grabbed one. It was $450, came with 2 mags and even had a test target included. What a frigging nice gun that was.

Posted by: Berserker- Dragonheads Div at November 17, 2013 08:30 AM (FMbng)

113 110 Sven RHINO! (Sorry, couldn't resist)

Posted by: speedster1 on the iPad at November 17, 2013 08:32 AM (yeM7r)

114 112 - It was $450, came with 2 mags and even had a test target included. What a frigging nice gun that was.

---------------

I'll bet that's before they changed the nice, smooth, rounded triggerguard to the ugly, stippled flat-front one. That's my only beef with the CZ.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 08:35 AM (celt+)

115 I'll bet that's before they changed the nice, smooth, rounded triggerguard to the ugly, stippled flat-front one. That's my only beef with the CZ.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 12:35 PM (celt+)

Yeah it was the smooth rounded one. It was literally right at the time they first came in, 1985-86. Actually, he was tipped off by a gun store that they would indeed be coming in, so he had a heads up. When he got the call he practically left a vapor trail when he ran to the store. lol

The best part was it surpassed his expectations.

Posted by: Berserker- Dragonheads Div at November 17, 2013 08:41 AM (FMbng)

116
Thats too funny. I used to read that mag too in the early 80's. The CZ-75 wasn't available in the US until "somewhere" around 1985, but before that a friend of mine used always dream about having one, he saw them in the SOF mag too. When they first appeared in the stores he ran right out and grabbed one. It was $450, came with 2 mags and even had a test target included. What a frigging nice gun that was.

Posted by: Berserker- Dragonheads Div at November 17, 2013 12:30 PM (FMbng)

I once read that most of the pre-B 75s that entered the US before the mid-80s were purchased by GIs who picked them up at the PXs on the European bases in the late 70s-early 80s. Probably bullshit, but I read it on the internet so it MUST be true.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 17, 2013 08:52 AM (MBqvE)

117 What's the deal with pre-Bs again?

Posted by: Oedipus at November 17, 2013 09:03 AM (7G1/p)

118
Besides the Jeff Cooper fanboi factor, Pre-Bs don't have the firing pin safety, plus the trigger guard thing you guys already mentioned. Can't remember if there were other differences, but that's the main ones that I can recall.

I actually bought my P01 from Angus. The distributors my LGS used were out of stock so I bought from him, and had it shipped.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 17, 2013 09:17 AM (MBqvE)

119

5 That was ME!!!

Now go get either the tactical latch (if you're handy with tools) or a BCM oversized charging handle which is a nice upgrade 'cuz you go from aluminum to steel on a pretty high-stress part. http://tinyurl.com/nrrzla6

$10 or $45. The choice is yours, but DEFINITELY choose one

Posted by: DAve at November 17, 2013 09:32 AM (b7yum)

120 Hey Taro the dust cover keeps out rain/moisture/snow too

Posted by: DAve at November 17, 2013 09:35 AM (b7yum)

121 CZ-75 family are the most accurate nines I've ever fired. The captive slide design really tightens up the groups. Stuff in some quality ammo with Hornady XTPs and, holy cow. I would love to try Camp Perry bullseye shooting with that setup. Screw a Beretta 92 (ungainly things, never liked em).

I choose Glocks for home defense and carry, for a bunch of very dull, practical reasons I won't bother detailing. The CZs are sweet and if you put a lot of emphasis on tiny 25 yd groups they are worth strong consideration.

Posted by: P.M. at November 17, 2013 09:42 AM (MCVbD)

122 Alright, you bastards, screw the budget. I'm going back to the toy store at lunch tomorrow and buying that CZ-75.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 09:45 AM (celt+)

123 120 Hey Taro the dust cover keeps out rain/moisture/snow too

------------------

If it's rainin' or snowin', I ain't out shootin'.

That said, the Sport was always intended to be my entry-level future donor rifle. After Christmas a Spikes Tactical midlength upper is going on the lower.

The SW upper is going on a Stag lower I just bought, and eventually I'll replace the receiver with an A1 to make an XM177 look-alike.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 09:51 AM (celt+)

124

123 I know i know I was just trying to justify my assertion

First of all you're gonna LOVE Spike's build quality. 1:7 I presume? 16"???

I prefer the 1:9 or 1:8 but it sure didn't stop me from pulling my wallet out. In this instance I'm not a believer in mil-spec. 62-gr. is getting alot easier to come by though these days so either way you'll be alright

Second you're gonna LOVE the midlength form-factor.

You're making good and intelligent progress towards your goals. Gather up the tools you need to do a barrel swap 'cuz I have an extra A2 receiver I'll probably send ya if you do

How do you feel about sling plates? DEF get the tactical latches!!!

Posted by: DAve at November 17, 2013 10:00 AM (b7yum)

125 I used to have an aluminum framed version of the P-38 the P-1. It was not my favorite pistol. Muzzle flip from recoil was almost in the same category as a .357 revolver. A Smith & Wesson 9mm with an aluminum frame is much more pleasant to shoot.

By the way, although James Bond did not carry a Walther P-38, Napoleon Solo, The Man From U.N.C.L.E. did. He and Ilya Kuryakin carried P-38s with absurdly short barrels. I think they had some kind of long barrel sniper version with a detatchable stock. I am not sure that 9mm would be my first choice for sniping but as a 7 year old I was impressed.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at November 17, 2013 10:02 AM (BcCwi)

126

A1's SUCKED. They established the bad reputation of the AR.

Why not a modern AR with all the upgrades that changed that rep around???

Posted by: DAve at November 17, 2013 10:33 AM (b7yum)

127 124 - Always enjoy your AR feedback, DAve. I've been keeping my eyes and ears open learning about ARs before plunging into the builds. learning a lot from you and from various forums.

Sling plates? Nah, I'm a utility-strap-and-paracord guy. That's what my Smith is wearing now, along with some IDF elastic forearm bands (feels nice and keeps the forend from shifting.)

It's a 16" middy with a 1:7. I wish it was 1:9, because I prefer XM193. But my Smith is 1:9, so I guess I have an excuse to keep that, too. Thanks for the offer of the receiver, but I've got my heart set on an A1 to mate with the Smith barrel and Stag lower for an XM177 look. I do need at least two ARs, right? :-)

Say, what buffer weight should I run with the middy? Is carbine usually OK with the midlength gas, or should I try an H?

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 10:33 AM (celt+)

128 I should be clear with the "A1" receiver. I'm really just talking about a receiver with the A1 sights. Still has the forward assist and brass deflector. This AR will be strictly for looks. I love the XM177 look.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 10:36 AM (celt+)

129 Speaking of CZ pistols... My little brother has a CZ-83 in .380 Shoots nice and tight, though for carry purposes, I'll stick with my XD Sub-Compact.

Posted by: FGCUJames at November 17, 2013 10:39 AM (i2t1q)

130 I've always thought the CZ-83 would make a lot more sense as a single-stack.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 10:47 AM (celt+)

131

127 I run stock buffers in everything with no probs. Buffers is a rabbit hole I have no intention of going down. The Spike's stuff works awesome, so why change it?

Good. 1:7, 1:9, all your AR's should be different for an important reason. After all if you're gonna have a dozen of 'em why not check out the varieties, eh?

You'll love the 14.5" and 18" barrels. 20" is heavy for me and 24" is just brutal. CQB, long range accuracy... as you can see your dozen is filling out... just wait until you add calibers...

I know, I was gonna stop at two too. Said the exact same thing about donuts and masturbation. The best cure for the shame you feel is the bang when you pull the trigger.

And when you realize and appreciate (because you've DONE it) that you can build, disassemble or modify this wonderful device into any of a million different combinations for any of a million different applications in your garage or spare bedroom in the span of two hours or so from a pile of parts you'll feel about it like I do.

I used to build hot rods. Take that money and spend it on AR's instead and see what you end up with- and I think you'l be much more pleased as well

Posted by: DAve at November 17, 2013 10:58 AM (b7yum)

132 CZ-83: Heavy, accurate, well made .380 (or .32!) that is a double-stack and tends to have a good trigger.

Always struck me as a great defensive handgun for the unusually recoil-sensitive. The .380 cartridge is not ideal for defense but there are so many of the pocket .380s out there today that, FWIW, ammo makers have stepped up. Modern JHPs (some prefer hot, flat nosed FMJs or FPs) do squeeze every drop of potential out of the dinky round.

Posted by: P.M. at November 17, 2013 11:00 AM (MCVbD)

133 131 And best yet if you don't let your stupid get the best of you your hobby will not only not lose value but will actually appreciate. So what's the net cost of all that fun???

Posted by: DAve at November 17, 2013 11:00 AM (b7yum)

134

I LURVE the magpul trigger guards (http://tinyurl.com/mmacpnz) but it's a somewhat delicate removal and install best done with confidence, dexterity, and special tools. Don't hurry with that

youtube has excellent vids on every process. Livin' the dream...

Posted by: DAve at November 17, 2013 11:04 AM (b7yum)

135 "I know, I was gonna stop at two too. Said the exact same thing about donuts and masturbation."

A man after my own heart.

Yeah, I'm already thinking, "Hey, a .300 Blackout could be cool. And I could do it up all IDF-looking..."

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 17, 2013 11:11 AM (celt+)

136 132: Yeah, the .380 isn't too big, but with so many carry guns coming out in .380 (Ruger's LC380 and LCP come to mind immediately), I'm not surprised there are a lot of ammo makers churning out high-quality .380 defensive rounds. It works for him, which is what I consider important.

Posted by: FGCUJames at November 17, 2013 11:15 AM (i2t1q)

137 If this thread is still alive, who was it that was talking Marlins last week? If you're reading this, there's a 1995-built (real Marlin!) 1894CS in .357 for sale locally for $750 if you're interested. Link in my sig.

Posted by: Oedipus, determined to RIDE THE DECLINE at November 17, 2013 12:35 PM (Tjkt6)

138 137 Oedipus at November 17, 2013 04:35 PM (Tjkt6)

I may have brought up my wanting a '95 Guide Gun...

I like old perfected tech a lot.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 17, 2013 12:40 PM (9jfyN)

139 Dude, you're in luck...same guy has a 2005 (real Marlin!) Guide Gun for sale, too. Link in my sig. =)

Posted by: Oedipus, determined to RIDE THE DECLINE at November 17, 2013 12:43 PM (Tjkt6)

140 139 Oedipus,

Heh thanks...of course I just bought 400 bucks worth of Outback gift cards so Mrs 10077 would murder me.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 17, 2013 12:51 PM (9jfyN)

141 With folks writing about .380 and .32 ACP, I wonder if anybody has experience with .32 NAA. This is a bottle neck cartridge made by necking down a .380 to .32 for blow back pistols. It is usually found in their Guardian pistol with a 2.5 inch barrel where it gets 1000 fps with a 60 grain bullet. However from a 4 inch barrel it produces velocities of 1400 to 1600 fps. It seems like a pretty good idea but it would be nice to hear from someone who has actual experience with this round.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at November 17, 2013 12:55 PM (BcCwi)

142 141 Problem with high velocity pistol rounds is overpenetration at close distances. Prob a great target pistol, but...

Posted by: DAve at November 17, 2013 01:10 PM (b7yum)

143 I instantly recognized this gun as it was used as the model for the my original Transformers Megatron, back when you could have a toy gun that actually looked like a gun. Somehow I managed not be an idiot and get myself shot. Of course the add-on extended barrel, scope, and attachable rifle stock were a bit absurd...

Posted by: Captain Obvious at November 17, 2013 01:47 PM (A4KV5)

144 142 The problem, though, is that .380 penetration is pretty poor with hollow point ammunition and merely adequate with FMJ. That is even more so with .32 ACP. Pretty much all the .32 NAA ammunition sold has hollow point bullets. They expand pretty impressively to about twice the original diameter but the maximum expansion has been about 10 inches in ballistic gelatin.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at November 17, 2013 01:52 PM (BcCwi)

145 I have one of those.

Posted by: pat at November 17, 2013 02:18 PM (KCg4m)

146 My grandfather brought one of those home, from Italy, after WWII. He was with the "Powder River" division, and crawled across Italy, practically all the way, on his belly (as he would tell it). At present, the weapon is sitting not 4 feet from me, in a case. I've never fired it, but it's still in great shape, from what I can tell. It has two serial numbers on it. I had an online friend do some digging a few years ago, and he said these weapons were made with interchangeable parts, so swapping out parts between multiple pistols could be done. This one (like all the others, I would expect) is stamped with swastikas in several locations. I looked up the two serial numbers, and found it was made at the original Walther plant, probably between '43 and '44. It was assigned to a nazi officer. When grandpa "obtained" it, he took it from a dead nazi. He never said it was a nazi officer...just a dead nazi. He didn't talk about it much though. Can't say I blame him.

Posted by: LibertysLeviathan at November 17, 2013 03:20 PM (iqU7l)

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