Ace of Spades HQ

February 17, 2013

Gun Thread (2-17-2013)
— andy

Gun Manufacturers Continue To Fight Back

We've talked about Ronnie Barrett's great letter to the LAPD and refusal to service their .50 cal. rifle in this space before, and last week we reprinted LaRue Tactical's notice that they won't be selling to law enforcement agencies in New York.

More folks are getting in on the act with Olympic Arms adopting LaRue's stance and Magpul telling Colorado it'll be 'adios' if they go through with a magazine ban.

The little town of Ilion, NY, home of Remington Arms Co., has been pointing out that it has a lot to lose, but I doubt the boneheads in Albany care.

Hopefully this trend will continue and the big boys, Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Glock, etc. will jump on board.

A Thought On Dealing With The Ammunition Shortage

With the cost of even .22 ammo being through the roof, when you're lucky enough to be able to find it, I've been thinking of getting a pellet gun. Specifically, I've been looking at this one:

Benjamin Trail NP Camo .22

With 250 pellets selling for about 7 bucks, this idea is looking better every day.

A reader also sent in this search at Cabela's that shows the wide variety of air pistols available.

If you've recently gotten into airgun shooting or are considering it, drop me some recommendations in the comments.

Gun Of The Week

What the heck is this thing?

(answer below)

Marksmanship Award

Hero of the Day - Son of Detroit candy store owner shoots, kills attempted robber - #NRA #ArmedCitizen (via @clickondetroit)
— Cam and Company (@CamAndCompany) February 13, 2013

Wayne LaPierre's Response To SOTU

Gun Of The Week - Answer

That's the Liberator FP-45. A million or so were made and intended to be dropped into occupied Europe in WWII for use by the resistance. It's a very simple design that could be made in any machine shop or well-appointed home workshop.

(h/t Russ in Winterset)

Commentary On the "Semiautomatic Assault Rifle"

Monty found this excellent piece and sent it around to the cobloggers earlier in the week. Give it a read.

Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Posted by: andy at 09:28 AM | Comments (195)
Post contains 414 words, total size 5 kb.

1 Ready, Aim, FIRST?

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 09:30 AM (4Mv1T)

2 The Liberator. Real simple. Even crude in design. Meant to allow you to kill a Kraut and take their better made gun.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 17, 2013 09:32 AM (7tbEC)

3 BRB. Gotta check the DIY thread for an answer to my power query so I don't burn down the house.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 09:32 AM (4Mv1T)

4 2 Ms Puma, Also the idea behind a bang stick, as explained in "Without Remorse."

Posted by: sven10077 at February 17, 2013 09:35 AM (LRFds)

5 "Guns, guns, guns!!! Come on Sal...Tigers are playing to-night. I never miss a game."

Posted by: EC Works For Dick Jones at February 17, 2013 09:35 AM (doBIb)

6 I'm a newbie. I don't know enough about air guns to compare or recommend, but I can say I'm pleased as punch with my recently-acquired Crosman 2240 pistol. It uses CO2, so no pumping (which was a problem for me with other air pistols and rifles).

I just ordered an adjustable trigger/sear for it, so I can make the trigger pull (which is a bit harsh) match (more or less) my Buck Mark, which I acquired AFTER having so much fun with the Crosman. Between the two of them, I can target shoot at the range and plink at home as much as I like.

Posted by: AliceH at February 17, 2013 09:39 AM (kawhQ)

7 used for *resistance*? resistance to what? and used by whom?

Posted by: soothsayer at February 17, 2013 09:39 AM (39q3n)

8 Parlez vous Francais monsieur Soothsayer?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 17, 2013 09:40 AM (7tbEC)

9 The San Francisco Chronicle has a story today about how guns come across state lines, mostly from Nevada. The article posits that we more border control (for guns, not MS-13 and Nortenos gangs, obviously as they are important Democrat voter blocs). I pointed out that convicts in California prisons are able to get whatever drugs they want.

Posted by: Navybrat at February 17, 2013 09:40 AM (I3elR)

10 Oh - forgot to mention, the Crosman 2240 is a steal at about $60. That's also the price of the trigger upgrade parts, though.

Posted by: AliceH at February 17, 2013 09:41 AM (kawhQ)

11 Availability of ammo seems to be a very hit or miss proposition based on discussions here. Friend got 1000 rds of 5.56 in this week that he didn't expect to see till April. Some ammo outlets will say to expect to pay crazy prices for two years or more, and then I'll visit another site five minutes later and they'll have some in stock at a more reasonable price, even if just momentarily.

Crazy times.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 09:42 AM (4Mv1T)

12 Also, there is a 50 round box of 45acp ammo on Gunbroker.com. Seller is asking $199.00. Someone please tell me that is a joke.

Posted by: Navybrat at February 17, 2013 09:42 AM (I3elR)

13 used for *resistance*?

resistance to what? and used by whom?

The French resistance in Nazi occupied France. They were to use them to ambush a Nazi soldier and take his K98 or MP40. Trading up!

Posted by: EC Works For Dick Jones at February 17, 2013 09:42 AM (doBIb)

14 EC I vote for the Walther or Luger. Then the MP40. The 98K is a bit hard to hide.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 17, 2013 09:43 AM (7tbEC)

15 Also, there is a 50 round box of 45acp ammo on Gunbroker.com. Seller is asking $199.00.

Someone please tell me that is a joke.

Must be tipped with gold shavings from Kim Kardashian's thong.

Posted by: EC Works For Dick Jones at February 17, 2013 09:43 AM (doBIb)

16 If you're .... into airgun shooting ..., drop me some recommendations in the comments.

I have been shooting Air Rifles for over fifty years
The do not make rifles like the old Benjamin that I could put the pellet in the same hole every time or chop a pencil in two at 50 yards but for the money.....
The Gamo Whisper
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Gamo_Whisper_with_Nitro_Piston/1509

These are tack drivers and amazingly quiet
They will throw the pellet around until they break in, about 100 shots, then after that I can hit a dime reliably at 30 yards with Crosman Premier Hollow Points.
Best pellet in recent history.

Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at February 17, 2013 09:43 AM (MhA4j)

17 EC I vote for the Walther or Luger. Then the MP40. The 98K is a bit hard to hide.

But they were more common. It was standard issue rifle for the Wermacht right?

Posted by: EC Works For Dick Jones at February 17, 2013 09:44 AM (doBIb)

18 For the man who has everything: http://www.drdtactical.com/rifles.html

Posted by: toby928© typing slowly with one eye anhd one finger at February 17, 2013 09:45 AM (QupBk)

Posted by: AliceH at February 17, 2013 01:39 PM (kawhQ)

I've got a friend with a break action .22 pellet gun.

Nice thing is the break also does the pumping. One pump and you can fire, all set. And it's not that hard.

Meanwhile though, I still want me my Henry Survival Rifle (AR-7 model). I just love how easily it stores, I can just throw it in my bag before I leave to go to the range. No case needed.

Posted by: tsrblke at February 17, 2013 09:45 AM (GaqMa)

20 citizens possessing small-arms... to resist a tyrannical behemoth?? sounds unsafe...especially for the children

Posted by: soothsayer at February 17, 2013 09:46 AM (1WM2H)

21 Like the NRA, but I do wish they'd stop all the gimmicky fundraising.

Posted by: longerthoughts at February 17, 2013 09:47 AM (CVVLU)

22 I have an AR-7 in my Bug out bag. Nice little piece.

Posted by: Navybrat at February 17, 2013 09:47 AM (I3elR)

23 I've got a CO2 BB gun version of a 1911 that I enjoy practicing with. It's got a blowback slide so it functions like the real thing. The first magazine full from a fresh CO2 cartridge is satisfyingly loud and snappy.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 17, 2013 09:47 AM (celt+)

24 Far more common. I am speaking on ability to hide while being carried and being easier to toss before inspection for papers.

Another weapon distributed in great quantities was the Sten.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 17, 2013 09:48 AM (7tbEC)

25 I mentioned this last night on the ONT, but I went to the nearby Bass Pro Shop yesterday. They are out of handguns, other than five or six 22's. They have whole shelves in the ammo section that are empty, with little "Sorry! Due to increased demand..." signs saying you can only buy two boxes of any ammo.

Now, this store is in a widely-visited outlet mall area, so I would expect high traffic. But even the local Gander Mountain doesn't keep 9mm on the shelves.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at February 17, 2013 09:48 AM (xjpRj)

26 Liberator. Easy peezy.

Posted by: RWC at February 17, 2013 09:48 AM (sqp6o)

27 I have a Benjamin pump-up in .22 and it will punch through a 2x4 at close range. IIRC top muzzle velocity is north of 600fps so it's not that far below a rim-fire. Down side is a lot of pumping to get that fast, up side is that a half dozen pumps gives just as flat a trajectory at reasonably close range, say inside 100 feet and enough power for vermin and lessor mammals.

Posted by: toby928© typing slowly with one eye anhd one finger at February 17, 2013 09:49 AM (QupBk)

28 Try to find a pellet rifle that has barrels for both .22 and .177 just in case pellet ammo suddenly goes into short supply. I took my Beman hunting this season and it works as good as a regular 22 on squirrels. 1000 fps for the pellet rifle vs. 1250 fps for a 22lr. Dinner is dinner.

Posted by: Major Noogles at February 17, 2013 09:50 AM (Id+yE)

29 Favorite gun shows on TV right now:

"American Rifleman", "Gun Stories" and "Gun Nuts" on Outdoor Channel.

"Triggers" on Military Channel.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 17, 2013 09:51 AM (celt+)

30 [iu]With the cost of even .22 ammo being through the roof, when you're lucky enough to be able to find it, I've been thinking of getting a pellet gun. You'll shoot your eye out, kid.

Posted by: zsasz at February 17, 2013 09:52 AM (MMC8r)

31 Â“Nothing weÂ’re going to do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate thepossibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that we will bring gun deathsdown to a thousand a year from what weÂ’re at now,Â” Biden told reporters aftermeeting with Senate Democrats in the Capitol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTyoppK_aDM

Posted by: Robert Byrd at February 17, 2013 09:55 AM (e8kgV)

32 If you've got a pump pellet gun, remember to pump it once before you store it. Helps preserve the seal.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 17, 2013 09:55 AM (celt+)

33 31 Imagine what an actual news reporter could do with practically anything Joe says, rather than the media propagandists we have now.

Posted by: zsasz at February 17, 2013 09:57 AM (MMC8r)

34 I just went and rooted through my closet and mine is a Benjamin-Sherman 392P, similar to this current item: http://www.airgundepot.com/392.html But my forestock/pumping lever is different that the current one. Something I learned only recently, Benjamin says to pump the rifle up once or twice to store it. That will keep the seals fresh even if you don't fire it for 10 years, or so they say.

Posted by: toby928© typing slowly with one eye anhd one finger at February 17, 2013 09:57 AM (QupBk)

35 I have an old Crossman 140 .22 caliber pellet rifle given to me by my grandfather about 30 years ago. It's fun to shoot, and has more than enough power to take out squirrels or pigeons. I used to prop up the yellow pages in a corner of a room, with the pages turned to ads with photos, and play assassin from the couch.

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 09:57 AM (7xPCu)

36 Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto It's a hive mind around here.

Posted by: toby928© typing slowly with one eye anhd one finger at February 17, 2013 09:58 AM (QupBk)

37 I toured the armory at West Point and the Liberator FP-45. is one exhibit that I remember quite well.

Posted by: sTevo at February 17, 2013 09:59 AM (VMcEw)

38 Got a Daisy rifle selling seeds when I was a kid. First thing I did was put a BB through a mirror in the basement.

Posted by: zsasz at February 17, 2013 09:59 AM (MMC8r)

39 36 Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto It's a hive mind around here. Posted by: toby928Â© typing slowly with one eye anhd one finger at February 17, 2013 01:58 PM (QupBk) Sometimes, you get stung.

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 09:59 AM (7xPCu)

40 Gun. Not rifle.

Posted by: zsasz at February 17, 2013 10:00 AM (MMC8r)

41 And sometimes just swarmed.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 17, 2013 10:00 AM (7tbEC)

On a side note, that Remington plant in the Mohawk Valley, west of Albany in NY, should be considered a historic landmark, if it literally isn't already. Some interesting notes from its Wikipedia artice:

"Remington Arms Company, Inc. was founded in 1816 by Eliphalet Remington in Ilion, New York, as E. Remington and Sons. It is the oldest company in the United States which still makes its original product, and is the oldest continuously operating manufacturer in North America. It is the only U.S. company which produces both firearms and ammunition domestically, and is the largest U.S. producer of shotguns and rifles. ... Its products are distributed in over 60 foreign countries, making its base wider than those of its competitors.

Remington has also developed or adopted more cartridges than any other gun maker or ammunition manufacturer in the world."

Posted by: Optimizer at February 17, 2013 10:01 AM (Mxt9o)

43 Any gun people know how the reload situation is? Is there a shortage of brass and powder and primers too? I was wondering about this the other day.

Posted by: SamIam at February 17, 2013 10:01 AM (S09w5)

44 Fun stunt with a 900 fps pellet gun. Put a drop of oil in the hollow of the pellet and shoot normally. The rapid compression of the air from the spring will heat the air and ignite the oil like a diesel engine. The resulting crack is from the pellet going supersonic.

Unfortunately accuracy goes away.

Posted by: yooper at February 17, 2013 10:01 AM (0cBMc)

45 I'm thrilled that several gun manufacturers are making this stand. I have purchased several SIGs and plan to write them today to ask them to stand with the others in support of the 2A.

I'm pissed that my regular Saturday morning excursion to send lead downrange is being severely curtailed due to the lack of ammo. A 50 ct. box of 9mm 115 grain that I could buy 6 months ago for $9.99 (on sale) is now selling for $14.99 and I'm limited to one box - when they have it.

Posted by: Ima Wurdibitsch at February 17, 2013 10:02 AM (Z8rVA)

46 Oh, and two events on the gun front here at Casa928. On Wednesday, the country sheriff saw fit to make me a trusted person with a carry permit, and on Friday my second Mosin-Nagant came in. This is a 1941 91/30 to compliment the Type53 carbine I already had. I paid the $10 extra for the handpicked option from AIM Surplus so it ended up costing me $139 and change. $109.95 + $10 + shipping. A beautiful gun, and still a steal if it shoots are good as it looks.

Posted by: toby928© typing slowly with one eye anhd one finger at February 17, 2013 10:02 AM (QupBk)

47 The gun issue is one in which elected officials need to feel PAIN to get them to remember not to touch it.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 17, 2013 10:02 AM (bb5+k)

48 I assume that this was discussed prior, but I am really enjoying the Firefly marathon on Science Channel.

Posted by: Muad'dib - Bringer of Cookies at February 17, 2013 10:03 AM (SCTXH)

49 Someone should start a list of gun makers in blue vs red states. It doesn't make sense to support states that deny my constitutional rights.

Posted by: Big Ben at February 17, 2013 10:04 AM (NgMDS)

50 Texas needs to entice Remington.

Posted by: zsasz at February 17, 2013 10:04 AM (MMC8r)

51 Wifey went into local super Walmart to get some .38 special ammo this week. No pistol ammo at all. Shelves were bare as a baby's butt. She asked the clerk when they would be getting some more 38's.

He said they got daily deliveries of different calibers but had no control over what they got on a particular day. He said they didn't sit on the shelf longer than a few minutes after they unpacked it.

My theory is the government which gets priority on shipments is making it all short supply by buying billions of rounds.

Posted by: Vic at February 17, 2013 10:04 AM (53z96)

52 The real issue with these air rifles is this- once you run out of nitro- or compressed-air cartridges, what do you do? Can you re-fill nitro at home? Re-compress? It's like ammo- one runs out, how do you get more? Or make more?

Making the pellets would not be much of an issue- so would a pump gun be a better alternative?

Posted by: Mr Wolf, non-Esq at February 17, 2013 10:04 AM (UIAT6)

53 My theory is the government which gets priority on shipments is making it all short supply by buying billions of rounds.

Yes, and the current run on ammo because of DC ass-hattery.

The ammo makers have to satisfy their federal contracts first, civie market comes second. What's to keep DHS from constantly issuing more contracts for another trillion rounds? That'd be one way to keep ammo stocks low for us plebes.

Posted by: EC Works For Dick Jones at February 17, 2013 10:07 AM (doBIb)

54 Making the pellets would not be much of an issue- so would a pump gun be a better alternative? Posted by: Mr Wolf, non-Esq at February 17, 2013 02:04 PM (UIAT6) I would never buy a CO2 pellet gun. Not as much power, costs more to operate. Good pellet guns these days are either powered with a pump or a spring.

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 10:07 AM (7xPCu)

55 I have a dumb question. What's stopping you from making your own ammo? Raw materials? Laws? Both?

Posted by: soothsayer at February 17, 2013 10:07 AM (ZgBZU)

56 IIRC, Col. Jeff Cooper once wrote that a .22LR cartridge would one day be dear enough to buy a breakfast.

Posted by: mrp at February 17, 2013 10:07 AM (HjPtV)

57 7 used for *resistance*? resistance to what? and used by whom? I know,right?

Posted by: Charlie Gibson at February 17, 2013 10:07 AM (PD2ad)

Mike Z Williamson has a good posting on his blog, Sacred Cow Slaughterhouse.

It ends with

"Then they came for the gun owners, and you liberal shitbags threw me under the bus, even though I'd done nothing wrong. So when they come to put you on the train, you can fucking choke and die.

~~~

Or you can commit seppuku with a chainsaw. I really don't care anymore. This is the end of my support for any liberal cause, because liberals have become anything but.

AMFs."

http://tinyurl.com/a2f4qyy

Posted by: rd at February 17, 2013 10:08 AM (zLp5I)

Hopefully this trend will continue and the big boys, Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Glock, etc. will jump on board.

And come to Texas!

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at February 17, 2013 10:08 AM (R8hU8)

60 I have a dumb question.

What's stopping you from making your own ammo?

Raw materials?
Laws?

Both?

Posted by: soothsayer at February 17, 2013 02:07 PM (ZgBZU)

Not a dumb question and I've been considering it. There's a bit of start-up cost involved with buying the equipment. What I've been hearing from my friends who do reload is that even the supplies for doing that are becoming increasingly in short supply.

Posted by: Ima Wurdibitsch at February 17, 2013 10:09 AM (Z8rVA)

61 From the snark-free guy

http://bit.ly/XiuGbZ

The gun they built a plan around.

Posted by: sTevo at February 17, 2013 10:09 AM (VMcEw)

62 Not a dumb question and I've been considering it. There's a bit of start-up cost involved with buying the equipment. What I've been hearing from my friends who do reload is that even the supplies for doing that are becoming increasingly in short supply. Posted by: Ima Wurdibitsch at February 17, 2013 02:09 PM (Z8rVA) It takes some expertise, too. And I believe that you cannot have black powder shipped to you, but I could be wrong.

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 10:10 AM (7xPCu)

63 I want an AAC Honeybadger. What about the "Deer Gun" during Vietnam?

Posted by: perdogg at February 17, 2013 10:11 AM (ziD3M)

64 I have a dumb question. What's stopping you from making your own ammo? Raw materials? Laws? Both? A coworker of mine does this, including casting his own bullets. Apparently it's dirt cheap once you have the setup, and not that difficult to do. The main expense is time.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at February 17, 2013 10:11 AM (hpDVh)

65 I had a Crossman pump rifle when I was a kid and liked having the flexibility of fps. I always liked using BB's over the lead pellets for some reason. Maybe because having 50 BB's in the reservoir was a hell of a lot more convenient than hand loading individual pellets.

Posted by: SamIam at February 17, 2013 10:11 AM (S09w5)

66 54. I would never buy a CO2 pellet gun. Not as much power, costs more to operate. Good pellet guns these days are either powered with a pump or a spring.

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 02:07 PM (7xPCu)

Problem is, these that we have examples of are all nitrogen-powered, similar to the CO2. It still takes a compressed-gas cartridge to use. Powerful, yes, but how reliable for supply?

Posted by: Mr Wolf, non-Esq at February 17, 2013 10:12 AM (UIAT6)

67 A coworker of mine does this, including casting his own bullets. Apparently it's dirt cheap once you have the setup, and not that difficult to do. The main expense is time. Posted by: Colorado Alex at February 17, 2013 02:11 PM (hpDVh) Reloading shotgun shells is easy as pulling a lever. Reloading centerfire requires more caution and attention to detail, from what I hear.

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 10:12 AM (7xPCu)

68 I know a guy in FL who rakes the lead out of the ground at the range. Then recasts it.

Posted by: sTevo at February 17, 2013 10:12 AM (VMcEw)

69 The only ammo I can still find at a reasonable cost is 7.52x54R - Russian military surplus. Usually comes sealed in big metal "spam" cans of 400-500 rounds each. A real good price is 25 cents per round. This link has some for under 30 cents per:

http://tinyurl.com/d2rmsyw

My sons and I have WWII issue Mosin-Nagant rifles (with scary assault bayonets). You can usually buy these rifles for less than $120 in perfectly shootable condition. Most Cabelas stores have them - still packed in the same gun grease the Russkis put them up in when the AK-47 came out.

Posted by: Muad'dib - Bringer of Cookies at February 17, 2013 10:13 AM (SCTXH)

70 House Democrats demand more taxes and spending, even if it destroys our currency

107 House Democrats, a majority of Democrats in the House of Representatives, wrote President Obama today, urging him to reject any proposals to cut benefits millions of American families depend upon through Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. The letter was led by Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL),Congressional Progressive Caucus Co-Chairs Reps. Keith Ellison (D-MN) and RaÃºl M. Grijalva (D-AZ), Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), and Rep Donna Edwards (D-MD).

The Members specifically singled out Â“Chained CPIÂ”Â—a proposal to reduce Social Security benefits by changing the way inflation is calculatedÂ—and raising the Medicare retirement age as policies they oppose.

Â“A commitment to keeping the middle-class strong and reducing poverty requires a commitment to keeping Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid strong,Â” the Members said in the letter. Â“We urge you to reject any proposals to cut benefits, and we look forward to working with you to enact approaches that instead rely on economic growth and more fair revenue-raising policies to solve our fiscal problems.Â”

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at February 17, 2013 10:14 AM (e8kgV)

71 Uh, typo - 7.62x54R.

Posted by: Muad'dib - Bringer of Cookies at February 17, 2013 10:14 AM (SCTXH)

72 Posted by: Mr Wolf, non-Esq at February 17, 2013 02:04 PM (UIAT6) Not all air rifle take CO2 cartridges. Most are of the pump or spring-piston variety. My dad has one of the latter, an RWS Diana, and it's a tack-driver at squirrel-shooting range.

Posted by: Farm Film Report at February 17, 2013 10:14 AM (4Ejfw)

73 Some of the pre-compress pneumatic rifles are quite accurate and powerful, some are capable of taking small to medium game. But you have to get into yet another set of equipment to keep them running and maintained. But don't expect the gun grabbers to stop at firearms in their quest to disarm-everybody-except-people-they-know. Australia has quite strict air gun restrictions, as do other countries, and you can bet the American left will use them to point the way once the time is right. Leftists don't give up when they win, they just invent another crisis.

Posted by: Socratease at February 17, 2013 10:15 AM (tvpaS)

74 I like this guys videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/Iraqveteran8888 He has many many, in various series. There is a whole series on reloading including salvaging lead and casting it. Btw, Youtube is the greatest instructional medium ever invented. You have experts and fools doing anything you ever wanted to learn. Learn from the pros, and from the idiots' mistakes.

Posted by: toby928© typing slowly with one eye anhd one finger at February 17, 2013 10:15 AM (QupBk)

75 The Members specifically singled out Â“Chained CPIÂ”Â—a proposal to reduce Social Security benefits by changing the way inflation is calculatedÂ—and raising the Medicare retirement age as policies they oppose.

They are already lying about the CPI. The real CPI is running about 20% and they are counting it at about 2%.

Posted by: Vic at February 17, 2013 10:17 AM (53z96)

76 Girandoni Air Rifle. Good enough for Lewis and Clark.

Posted by: RWC at February 17, 2013 10:18 AM (sqp6o)

77 Youtube is the greatest instructional medium ever invented.
---

For grins I looked up how to change a water pump yesterday. I would have figured it out but knowing ahead of time to pull the alternator and motor mount gave me a real head start. Even made me think to catch the antifreeze with a trash can lid.

Posted by: sTevo at February 17, 2013 10:18 AM (VMcEw)

78 Lucky gunner has .45acp in stock. From around $.50/rd for fmj and over a buck for the fancy stuff.

Posted by: Invictus at February 17, 2013 10:19 AM (OQpzc)

79 Get anything that shoots 7.62 x 54 r.(Mosins, T-53's, etc. and Veprs if you want semi auto). Its like a 30-06 ballistics wise. Sealed spam cans (com block military surplus ammunition of 440 rounds) can be had for 80-90 dollars sans shipping. Its the best deal going in ammo right now and plentiful.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at February 17, 2013 10:19 AM (cCxiu)

80 Problem is, these that we have examples of are all nitrogen-powered, similar to the CO2. It still takes a compressed-gas cartridge to use. Powerful, yes, but how reliable for supply? Posted by: Mr Wolf, non-Esq at February 17, 2013 02:12 PM (UIAT6) I'm not familiar with nitrogen powered guns, and I'm not sure what difference which gas used makes. I had a cheap little CO2 pistol that used the small (10 gram?) cartridges, and it was fun for the first ten or so shots, but once the pressure started to go, it was too weak to do much with. I have never heard of a way for joe twelve pack to repressurize those things and replace the metal seal.

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 10:19 AM (7xPCu)

81 I suppose you could stuff chunks of dry ice back into the cartridge, and crimp a new metal seal on before it evaporates.

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 10:21 AM (7xPCu)

82 Its the best deal going in ammo right now and plentiful. Indeed. The 7.62X39 surplus doesn't look too bad either so I think my next purchase, if not another Mosin, will be an SKS. Who could have foreseen that the Commies would end up being our suppliers?

Posted by: toby928© typing slowly with one eye anhd one finger at February 17, 2013 10:21 AM (QupBk)

83 Has anyone here ever seen an Olympic or NCAA air rifle?

Posted by: comatus at February 17, 2013 10:22 AM (qaVK+)

84 Lewis and Clark used air rifles to take down game during their entire expedition. All they had to carry was ammo.

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 10:23 AM (7xPCu)

85 Gold panning at home, with pay dirt either brought home from prospecting or shipped to my house, would have been a huge waste of time if I hadn't watched a few YouTube vids made by other amateurs. Still messy, but at least I know I've skipped over dozens of rookie mistakes that I would have otherwise made.

Posted by: lincolntf at February 17, 2013 10:24 AM (ZshNr)

I've been thinking of getting this totally impractical rifle:

http://alturl.com/gc8za

Posted by: Jeremiah Johnson at February 17, 2013 10:25 AM (SzY9C)

87 Re: ammo. I've been trolling the shelves at my local Wal-Mart since this insanity started. Even a few weeks ago you could still find 9mm, 45 ACP and 40 S&W 100-round packs on the shelves. About two weeks ago - nothing. Zip. 22LR? Fuggedaboutit. So this morning I walk in and what do I see? 45 ACP - a bunch of 50-round boxes. And 22LR. Several flavors and counts. I asks for the guy to open the case and as he is doing so he apologizes and says that the new Wal-Mart policy is one box per day, per customer. He personally hates it, but he did admit that everyone at least gets a shot (heh) at something. So I went home with my one box of 325 22LR rounds. Stopped by my local gun store (small mom and pop operation, only open 4 days a week) earlier this week. They were picked clean of ammo of course, but he said that powder was running low and he was going to start stockpiling for himself soon. He was already stockpiling 9mm ammo so he could have something for concealed carry students to shoot.

Posted by: pilot141 at February 17, 2013 10:25 AM (unkLq)

88 Posted by: comatus at February 17, 2013 02:22 PM (qaVK+) The stuff that looks like a damn Transformer?

Posted by: RWC at February 17, 2013 10:25 AM (sqp6o)

89 >>>Also, there is a 50 round box of 45acp ammo on Gunbroker.com. Seller is asking $199.00.

Someone please tell me that is a joke.

Late to post. Out with wifey for the obligatory 3 mile walk in 32 degrees.

I bought 500 rds Remington UMC bulk 45auto for $219 a box at Gander Mtn last week. They had several hundred boxes on a skid. That's why I say it has been real hit or miss.

Bought 5.56 from Midway two weeks ago, same price. All .44 a round.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 10:26 AM (4Mv1T)

90 Its the best deal going in ammo right now and plentiful.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at February 17, 2013 02:19 PM (cCxiu)

I've had an old rifle with a soviet stamp in the back of the safe since before the internet. Just pulled it out this week to see if I could ID it today, and I found out I own a Mosin. I may need to get some ammo and see how it shoots.

Posted by: Invictus at February 17, 2013 10:27 AM (OQpzc)

91 Pretty soon, people will be stockpiling rocks for their slingshots.

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 10:28 AM (7xPCu)

92 Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at February 17, 2013 02:19 PM (cCxiu)

I was at a gun show in Wilmington yesterday, found several spam cans of 7.62x54rm brass cased (which isn't all that common, at least in surplus ammo) for $150 for 440 rounds. I have a Mosin 91/30 that I refurbished, it doesn't like the surplus stuff so I've been buying all the brass-cased commercial ammo I can find.

Posted by: antisocialist at February 17, 2013 10:29 AM (eGr8Z)

93 Pretty soon, people will be stockpiling rocks for their slingshots.

We'd like to announce an open contract for 10 billion rocks in all sizes and shapes.

Posted by: DHS Procurment at February 17, 2013 10:30 AM (doBIb)

94 ...I may need to get some ammo and see how it shoots

I am told that firing a Mosin is comparable to the recent Ruskie SMODlet.

Or like the guy shooting 416 Bigsby rounds next to me at the range Friday night.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 10:31 AM (4Mv1T)

95 @ 15 ...Must be tipped with gold shavings from Kim Kardashian's thong. Posted by: EC Works For Dick Jones at February 17, 2013 01:43 PM (doBIb) Biological weaponry is forbidden by the Geneva Convention.

Posted by: naturalfake at February 17, 2013 10:32 AM (G9qZk)

96 93 Pretty soon, people will be stockpiling rocks for their slingshots. We'd like to announce an open contract for 10 billion rocks in all sizes and shapes. Posted by: DHS Procurment at February 17, 2013 02:30 PM (doBIb) I hear that the Palestinians have the boulder. Watch out, Israel!

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 10:32 AM (7xPCu)

97 Or like the guy shooting 416 Bigsby rounds next to me at the range Friday night.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 02:31 PM (4Mv1T)

I have a .375 HnH magnum. Turned my shoulder blue when I sighted it in.

Posted by: Invictus at February 17, 2013 10:33 AM (OQpzc)

Here in MN, the DFL (Democrats) took over the house and senate in the 2012 elections. And now they want to ban "assault rifles" and "high capacity clips."

Our lords and masters deign that us peasants should be happy with 7 round magazines. And they will make us turn in our guns and magazines for destruction or ship them out of state by 8/1/13, if their unconstitutional abomination passes.

I have been calling and writing letters. I hope you are doing the same wherever you live. Go to Smith ampersand Wesson or Ruger's websites. Use their automated letter generator. It takes like 90 seconds. And it sends letters to your state and federal congress critter, senator, governor, AG, VP, and President. If you live in MN, go to the MN-GOCRA website. they have a list of DFL pukes to call and remind that we will vote their miserable asses out of office in 2014. If you live elsewhere, someone has the info for your state, so find it and use it.

These democrat idiots may like gun control, but they love their cushy jobs more. So make sure they fear for their elected careers.

And if we defeat them, then this panic stops! Gun prices and ammo prices will return to normal. And we can afford to go shooting at the range again. So call and write some letters!

Posted by: rd at February 17, 2013 10:34 AM (zLp5I)

99 "I've had an old rifle with a soviet stamp in the back of the safe since before the internet. Just pulled it out this week to see if I could ID it today, and I found out I own a Mosin".

----------------

Any other markings? Mosins come in a variety of flavors.

F'rinstance, if there's an SA in a box, it's a Finn capture.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 17, 2013 10:34 AM (celt+)

100 Rigby I meant, I think. First I'd seen of them, actually.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 10:35 AM (4Mv1T)

101 RWC, kindly step outside and rub your knuckles in some more shit.

You know, for all the 30 year combat veterans supposedly behind these keyboards, I have never seen so many commenters on a gun blog who have no experience at all with shooting sports. And the goddamn admission is free, except for OSU which charges $5 for the nationals. I just do not get it.

Target air rifles have rechargeable air tanks that I have worked with quite a bit, but fuck you Google it.

Posted by: comatus at February 17, 2013 10:35 AM (qaVK+)

102 94 No, it's really not bad at all. I expected it to kick like a drunken mule, but it really wasn't that much different than my 7mm-08 Browning. I had even gone to the trouble of buying a recoil pad, but I didn't need it. And I'm just a lil' ol' girl.

Posted by: antisocialist at February 17, 2013 10:35 AM (eGr8Z)

103 I went into Walmart yesterday, and the entire stock of pistol ammo was three boxes of .45 acp. They did have 12 and .410 shells. And plenty of 22-250.

Posted by: Invictus at February 17, 2013 10:36 AM (OQpzc)

104 91 Pretty soon, people will be stockpiling rocks for their slingshots. Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 02:28 PM (7xPCu) Joerg Sprave is the Robert Oppenheimer of slingshots.

Posted by: RWC at February 17, 2013 10:36 AM (sqp6o)

105 OK, what does "universal" mean as re background checks? For a .410 shotgun I want to buy from a neighbor? For that .22 I want to buy for my grandson?

Posted by: The littl shyning man at February 17, 2013 10:36 AM (OLni+)

106 F'rinstance, if there's an SA in a box, it's a Finn capture.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 17, 2013 02:34 PM (celt+)

I'll check. brb

Posted by: Invictus at February 17, 2013 10:37 AM (OQpzc)

107 During the post-war decades JAPAN bought up all our SCRAP STEEL. Then Japan made CARS with that steel and SOLD us those cars and used the money to rebuild their kooky empire. Then our Japanese cars would turn into RUST BUCKETS because the steel was thin and impure.

Posted by: soothsayerwing plover's wacky history lessons at February 17, 2013 10:38 AM (NLH1M)

108 antisocialist- Glad it is manageable. What I had heard is that the "report" of the rifle is spectacular, both visually, and "sonically", compared to smaller caliber ARs and such.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 10:39 AM (4Mv1T)

109 >>>For the man who has everything: http://www.drdtactical.com/rifles.html

Here's another: Titanium.

si-defense.com/?t=si_weapons_detail&nid=576590

Posted by: Fritz at February 17, 2013 10:39 AM (WM+rJ)

110 only an hour late to the party is it still alive?

Posted by: Jake in ID at February 17, 2013 10:40 AM (jfSqj)

111 OK, what does "universal" mean as re background checks

Nothing, in NC, anyway. No background check required to sell to an individual, as long as you don't already know they are a felon.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 10:41 AM (4Mv1T)

112 108 - Well, yes, the sound and smoke is much more dramatic than my AR or my AK.

Posted by: antisocialist at February 17, 2013 10:41 AM (eGr8Z)

113 @ 82 (toby92

, Almost all my recent purchase have been com block stuff. Alot of it is classified as curio and relics so if you have an 03 license it can be shipped to your door. thirty bucks for 3 years, now thats a steal of a deal on an FFL. I bought a lot of SKS's with it (10). I like them better than AK's. They seem a tad more accurate, and come with a bayonet (and grenade launcher if you get the Yugo). Very reasonably priced too. yep that 7.62 x 39 ammo is reasonable too. I can't find too much surplus on the market right now, but wolf etc., is still pretty cheap. AK prices have shot up though. Have you looked at the M82PVs? (7.62 x 39 mm chopped AK)? Nice thing about that one is that its classified as a pistol, so if you live in an open carry state or have a CHL and you can figure out how to conceal it, you can carry it.

They were in the mid 500's when I got mine but have been creeping up on 700 lately. For pistols I recommend anything in 9x18 mm. CZ-82's (12 round mags- old Czech army semi auto pistol) can be had for a bit over 200 dollars. P-64's (small, polish army pistol- 6 shot mag) can be had for about the same. Ammo is cheap and was easily available on the internet (12.97 for a box of 50), but you may have a hard time finding it now, everyone is sold out. Anybody else have some good recommendations? Us morons have to keep each other informed.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at February 17, 2013 10:41 AM (cCxiu)

114 Nope. No SA in a box. It is stamped 1945. There is a triangle with what looks like an arrow in it.

Posted by: Invictus at February 17, 2013 10:42 AM (OQpzc)

115 Yo Jake. How's it hangin.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 10:43 AM (4Mv1T)

116 @78 Lucky gunner has .45acp in stock. From around $.50/rd for fmj and over a buck for the fancy stuff. Thanks for the tip. Just got a case of 9mm for target practice. No one else has any 9mm at all except a few boxes of JHP.

Posted by: LindaFell at February 17, 2013 10:43 AM (PGO8C)

117 I think the steel Japan used was from scrapped naval vessels. Ironic.

Posted by: soothsayerwing plover's wacky history lessons at February 17, 2013 10:43 AM (uaJ2E)

118 I am now waiting for the county sheriff to deem me a trusted citizen and allow me to carry in Ohio. Meanwhile I kill lots of paper at the range. My primray carry gun will be my Glock 19 which I shoot the best with and I love shooting. My problem is, I'm not very big and am having trouble finding a comfortable holster. I am right handed and woukd really like a shoulder holster but I also have a pacemaker on my left side. IWB seems to print with me. My secondary gun is my SW .38 airweight that I will use my Flashbang with. The .38 is not as easy for me to shoot but easy to conceal. I have shot my hubby's Beretta Nano, but don't love it like my Glock. Any holster suggestions will be appreciated. Also, ammo being as expensive as it is, would an air pistol be a good practice weapon? I could practice at home too.

Posted by: megthered at February 17, 2013 10:43 AM (iR4Dg)

119 Anyone know why pre-1964 Remington Models 70s are so much more expensive than the new ones?

Posted by: Invictus at February 17, 2013 10:44 AM (OQpzc)

120 113 - I've been looking at a Makarov for my next purchase. I like the old commie stuff myself.

Posted by: antisocialist at February 17, 2013 10:45 AM (eGr8Z)

121 Nope. No SA in a box. It is stamped 1945. There is a triangle with what looks like an arrow in it.

Posted by: Invictus at February 17, 2013 02:42 PM (OQpzc)

That means it came from the Izvest (sp?) armory.

Posted by: antisocialist at February 17, 2013 10:46 AM (eGr8Z)

122 "Nope. No SA in a box. It is stamped 1945. There is a triangle with what looks like an arrow in it."

---------------

Izhevsk Arsenal.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 17, 2013 10:46 AM (celt+)

123 122 - yeah, that too. :-)

Posted by: antisocialist at February 17, 2013 10:47 AM (eGr8Z)

124 @ 102 and 112, I really like the mosins. The M-44's and T-53's are my favorite to shoot just for the fireballs. You don't realize it while standing behind it and shooting. But I have had guys (firing off to the side of me) complain they felt the pressure wave in their chest.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at February 17, 2013 10:48 AM (cCxiu)

125

OK, what does "universal" mean as re background checks

Nothing, in NC, anyway. No background check required to sell to an individual, as long as you don't already know they are a felon.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 02:41 PM (4Mv1T)

They want to change the laws to REQUIRE every gun purchase go through an FFL and a NICS check. It will then be recorded on a 4473 form with the FFL. And of course, the FFL will need to be reimbused by you.

Basically it is back door registration. Your name and guns are listed in the 4473, and after the next crisis, they will use them to start the gun registration and confiscation lists.

Posted by: rd at February 17, 2013 10:48 AM (zLp5I)

126 Yo Jake. How's it hangin. Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 02:43 PM (4Mv1T) so far so good

Posted by: Jake in ID at February 17, 2013 10:49 AM (jfSqj)

127 The point is that any product made with recycled materials will always be inferior.

Posted by: soothsayerwing plover's wacky history lessons at February 17, 2013 10:49 AM (Ba6aP)

128 Any holster suggestions will be appreciated. Also, ammo being as expensive as it is, would an air pistol be a good practice weapon? I could practice at home too. Posted by: megthered at February 17, 2013 02:43 PM (iR4Dg) I had a hard time finding a holster for my Walther P22, so I bought one made of nylon that was the appropriate size, and restitched parts of it to fit the gun better. I used one of those heavy duty awl type "Speedy Stitchers" that comes with super heavy duty thread. It worked great.

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 10:51 AM (7xPCu)

129 That there "Liberator" looks like it was made from a barn door hinge.

Posted by: Mindy at February 17, 2013 10:51 AM (gBOQE)

130 Posted by: megthered at February 17, 2013 02:43 PM (iR4Dg) I think you are an 'ette. you might check 'The Cornered Cat' and 'Women & Guns magazine' basically you got to dress around the gun, not add the gun to what you are wearing.

Posted by: Jake in ID at February 17, 2013 10:54 AM (jfSqj)

131 That there "Liberator" looks like it was made from a barn door hinge.

And the P Trap from under my sink.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 10:54 AM (4Mv1T)

132 @ 128 (model_1066), make your own holster out of Kydex. google make your own holster. There are even videos for it. Sorry I posted a link but got that annoying message about long unbroken strings. It fits like a glove and is better and cheaper that the ones you pay 70-150 dollars for.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at February 17, 2013 10:55 AM (cCxiu)

133 It fits like a glove and is better and cheaper that the ones you pay 70-150 dollars for. Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at February 17, 2013 02:55 PM (cCxiu) a good holster that you like is a must have. very few of the nylon holsters are made for other than occasional use. A 'BellyBand' is one of the few nylon holsters to use regularly. good holsters are made of leather of kydex, or someother type of polymer

Posted by: Jake in ID at February 17, 2013 10:58 AM (jfSqj)

134 I think you mean pre 64 Winchester mod. 70 . I'm not really sure why they're so revered but they are . I like the post 64 model 70's just fine .

Posted by: awkward davies at February 17, 2013 10:58 AM (USjX1)

135 132 @ 128 (model_1066), make your own holster out of Kydex. google make your own holster. There are even videos for it. Sorry I posted a link but got that annoying message about long unbroken strings. It fits like a glove and is better and cheaper that the ones you pay 70-150 dollars for. Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at February 17, 2013 02:55 PM (cCxiu) I guess that's the point I was trying to make. I used an inexpensive nylon holster and modified it, because what I had to do to it was minimal to suit my needs. Building one from scratch sounds like fun though.

Posted by: model_1066 at February 17, 2013 10:59 AM (7xPCu)

136 Reloading is not all that difficult. With a little reading and/or instruction, anyone can do it. I started in 2008 - after the first scare - and found out that when ammo is scarce, so are primers, powder and bullets. It's the same situation now as with ammo - just spotty availability.

I reload for accuracy. My group sizes decreased by at least an order of magnitude using my own reloads for both rifle and pistol, and to me that's the biggest advantage of reloading vs using factory ammo. The down side is that that it takes some time and you really have to enjoy it, or be serious about competition, to do it.

The entry cost isn't that much - maybe 200 or so to get started. And I would suggest that you chat up someone at the range using reloads - you can tell by the crappy ammo boxes they have - and maybe they'll be willing to give you some tutoring. Be skeptical about what people tell you though - plenty of silly opinions on reloading, just like anything else.

Posted by: The Last One at February 17, 2013 11:01 AM (MDQQ7)

137 HOW TO DEFEAT GUN LAWS a primer If you want to help defeat state gun laws and you have a few extra bucks, it's possible, even for just one person. Get an email list from your state NRA chapter. They may charge you for it but probably not. Organized chapters will have the lists chopped up by legislative districts, but you can link to the Secretary of State website and ask them to find the names of their reps. Draft a letter, mentioning each constituent and his state rep and senator by name, explaining what these laws mean. Ask them to help you to fight them with direct action. Email this to the list. Ask them to reply to you in the affirmative with their mailing address- this gives them some buy-in to the process. Then send the respondents an envelope with two post cards. have the address of the the state house and a space for the name of the rep or senator, and the message you want to stress. Have them sign it and send it in. You can make like 2,000 post cards for $80 at Staples or whatever, by taking a regular piece of paper, typing the message up twice, getting copies on light card, and cutting them in half. This is much more effective than individuals calling and mailing by themselves because it shows you're organized on the issue. Ten of these identical post cards hitting a legiator's desk will change his mind. It is time consuming and will cost a few hundred dollars. If you want to offset the cost, you may want to form as 501(3)(c) in Delaware (cheap and fast) so you can do a little fundraising too, in the same emails and same envelopes. You will probably be able to cover your costs. Also consider getting a bulk mail account at be post office. It's really worth it. And that's it. You become a special interest civil rights organization. That's all you need. That's how we community organize on this shit

Posted by: Truman North and his tired thumbs at February 17, 2013 11:02 AM (I2LwF)

138 elbows up

Pre-64 Winchesters were made in the US, post 64 are not.

Posted by: Vic at February 17, 2013 11:02 AM (53z96)

139 Posted by: The Last One at February 17, 2013 03:01 PM (MDQQ7) Or take a class. The local Cabelas offers free re-loading classes

Posted by: Jake in ID at February 17, 2013 11:02 AM (jfSqj)

140 That there "Liberator" looks like it was made from a barn door hinge.

And the P Trap from under my sink.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 02:54 PM (4Mv1T)

It certainly is a crude-looking piece, nothing more than a factory-made zip gun. Seems to be needlessly complex, too, given that it's only a single-shot.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 17, 2013 11:03 AM (673KB)

141 Well there you go. Classes are good.

Posted by: The Last One at February 17, 2013 11:04 AM (MDQQ7)

142 The .45 ACP Liberator. Hundreds of thousands made and very few survive. Responsible for more than a few assassinations, including a few that were important.

Posted by: pat at February 17, 2013 11:05 AM (vY2MW)

143 I make holsters . Thinking about trying to turn it into a business . The last two I made were alligator skin for full size 1911's . If you can find full coverage exotic skin holsters they seem to run from 250 to 400 bucks . I'm using gator because I was gifted two skins by my cousin . It's a major pain in the ass to tan and work with . I've also made gun belts out of it . Gorgeous stuff . One of these days I'll post pics of my work . It ain't as good as Tucker Gunleather but I'm not ashamed of it , either .

Posted by: awkward davies at February 17, 2013 11:08 AM (USjX1)

144 TR, I have a Mosin if you want to have a go at one. I'm a wimp so I have a recoil pad, ballistically it is somewhere between 30-06 and .308. Great shooting gun, dead accurate, and a lot of fun if you like recoil therapy. I have enough ammo (I have three unopened Spam cans and most of an opened one) to re-fight the "Great Patriotic War" so you can shoot it until your arms fall off.

Of course the damn thing is long enough that with the bayonet mounted you don't even have to get out of your foxhole for a bayonet charge. I want a M38 carbine Mosin in a real bad way (not the M44, I don't want the folding bayonet).

If you have a Mosin and shoot milsurp ammo through it, buy yourself a bottle of Windex to take to the range with you, when you are done shooting spray the windex down the barrel until it runs out the receiver. This will neutralize the corrosive salts from the primers.

Sean Sorrentino from An NC Gun Blog ( http://www.ncgunblog.com/ ) is keeping track of the companies that have joined the New York boycott. The latest is West Fork Armory. http://tinyurl.com/bzqtvdr

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at February 17, 2013 11:10 AM (yh0zB)

145 I wonder what piece of cheap stamped-steel WWII memorabilia has the greater difference between original cost and today's value - a Liberator or a D-Day "cricket."

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 17, 2013 11:11 AM (celt+)

146 My son just bought every box of .243 in the entire County. That was 4 boxes. One Remington accutip, 2 top shelf Federals, and a Serbian box of hunting rounds. After everything that could be fired from a semi went, people started on the hunting rounds. Sheeeh.

Posted by: pat at February 17, 2013 11:13 AM (vY2MW)

147 i've killed countless birds (mostly doves) with pellet guns. for survival situations, stealth, weight, cost-efficiency and safety, they're hard to beat. good call, andy.

Posted by: obamuh at February 17, 2013 11:14 AM (BW0O2)

148 Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at February 17, 2013 03:10 PM (yh0zB) it is not just NY you have full on stoopid in MN MO WA now also

Posted by: Jake in ID at February 17, 2013 11:17 AM (jfSqj)

149 Thanks GGE- I have my dad's shooter's shoulder pad. That, or park it on a bench rest at the range. I like to cheat that way. All the pyrotechnics fun without all the work.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 11:17 AM (4Mv1T)

150 I started reloading because I have a T-30 Japanese carbine that takes the 6.5x50 Japanese cartridge that is made of unobtanium (Hornady and Norma make it commercially for about a buck and a quarter per round and up). The Mosin is cheaper to buy ammo than reload. I've been trying to find 230gr FMJ bullets for reloading the .45 for a while now, no luck. I've been able to find 185gr.

The big deal about reloading is to get a manual so that you don't overcharge your cases, get a quality reloading kit (I have a Lee single stage kit that cost me just a bit over $100 for everything I needed except the dies), a set of digital calipers and a digital scale. All told you'll have less than $200 in equipment that you don't have to buy all at once, and reloading is kind of relaxing.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at February 17, 2013 11:17 AM (yh0zB)

151 I wonder if some of these com bloc weapons were made by some of the unfortunates mentioned prominently in the book thread. One Day in the Life of Ivan Dagunsmith.

Posted by: lincolntf at February 17, 2013 11:18 AM (ZshNr)

152 Jake, I was kind of surprised about MO. NJ just went full retard recently as well (to the surprise of...no one, really).

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at February 17, 2013 11:19 AM (yh0zB)

153
i've killed countless birds (mostly doves) with pellet guns. for survival situations, stealth, weight, cost-efficiency and safety, they're hard to beat. good call, andy.

Pigeons, starlings, rabbits, squirrels....a good pellet gun is deadly, there's very little noise, and it doesn't scare off other potential targets the way the crack of a rifle does.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at February 17, 2013 11:21 AM (KESFj)

154 Don't see it in the article, but the liberator cost a little under a dollar to make in the '40s. This departed from the combat weapons which easily surpassed that of every other country in quality/integrity. For the most part German and Japanese weapons manufactured during the war were POS. The American weapons just got better and better, as Underwood, GM, GE etc got the hang of it. Springfield Armory always made fantastic quality, even if it did succumb to political pressure that compromised the best choices of design.

Posted by: pat at February 17, 2013 11:22 AM (vY2MW)

155 and reloading is kind of relaxing. Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at February 17, 2013 03:17 PM (yh0zB) it is when you have the house to yourself. It is a bit nerve racking with 3, 4, and 5 year olds wanting to 'help' I only let them help seating the bullet (which is basically the last step, if you have not reloaded)

Posted by: Jake in ID at February 17, 2013 11:23 AM (jfSqj)

156 Love to hang around but I've got to get rolling. I have to stop by the Radio Shack on the way to work to get a spare set of meter leads to cut up for my schoolwork (special project, I have to build a buffer for checking capacitive circuits without loading them down). I'll check in on youse morons sometime during the ONT while I'm at work.

Later roonz and roonettez!

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at February 17, 2013 11:24 AM (yh0zB)

157 Kids are also good for prep steps if observed, or so I hear. . Probably depends on attention span, will be better at 7 or 8, especially girls.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at February 17, 2013 11:27 AM (sOSoo)

158 I only let them help seating the bullet
(which is basically the last step, if you have not reloaded)

Posted by: Jake in ID at February 17, 2013 03:23 PM (jfSqj)

Get them a hand-cranked tumbler, they can take turns tumbling brass for you. 'Course you'll have to put them in the real tumbler later on, I imagine they'll find something more interesting to do pretty quickly. I do my reloading late at night in the shed where there's no one (but my dog) to bother me.

(apparently you have a lengthy URL linked in your name, just got the "long unbroken strings of text" fuck you from Pixy)

OK, I'm really out now. Later roonz and roonettez!

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at February 17, 2013 11:28 AM (yh0zB)

159 Also, re the 54R, "between 30-06 and 308" is a tight fit. The difference in velocity is within the margin of error, and certainly not anything the target will notice. . Not to dissuade anyone from their choice, especially in tight times, but ballistically they're all quite similar. You can load longer bullets in the longer cases, but the difference is also slight. . You used to be able to get legal armor piercing rounds for the 06, but that's pretty much all gone now.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at February 17, 2013 11:34 AM (sOSoo)

160 Anyone who wants to know more about Mosin Nagants would do well to check out 7.62x54r (dot) net for LOTS of practical and historical information. Link also in sig.

Posted by: Piercello at February 17, 2013 11:40 AM (E/6f0)

161 Thanks for help IDing the Mosin. Seems I have an M44.

Posted by: Invictus at February 17, 2013 11:44 AM (OQpzc)

162 Jake, with 3,4, and 5 yr old's, the only relaxing thing you can do is drink. I would advise it.

Posted by: The Last One at February 17, 2013 11:44 AM (MDQQ7)

163 You used to be able to get legal armor piercing rounds for the 06, but that's pretty much all gone now.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at February 17, 2013 03:34 PM (sOSoo)

AP and tracer rounds have been classified as Category III now through regulatory fiat.

Posted by: Vic at February 17, 2013 11:45 AM (53z96)

164 Where's Capt Backfire? Seems he got semi-automatically weaponized recently, thanks to his boss. I want to hear about it.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 17, 2013 11:45 AM (4Mv1T)

165 AP and tracer rounds have been classified as Category III now through regulatory fiat.

Posted by: Vic at February 17, 2013 03:45 PM (53z96)

I feel so much safer!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 17, 2013 11:54 AM (GsoHv)

166 IIRC, The Germans used air rifles for sniper weapons in WWII. No substitute for a small caliber, high velocity round to the head. Nice and quiet too...

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at February 17, 2013 11:54 AM (M0O7A)

167 Good Lord! Imagine this much stupid all in one place at the same time - the stuplosion would be off the scale "...Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL),Congressional Progressive Caucus Co-Chairs Reps. Keith Ellison (D-MN) and RaÃºl M. Grijalva (D-AZ), Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), and Rep Donna Edwards (D-MD)....,

Posted by: Save Trestles! at February 17, 2013 11:57 AM (tHbj6)

168 I have used a pellet gun for a long time, even here in the city. I have rid my backyard of dozens of pests, rats, pocket gophers, the occasional skunk. You have to be careful with the skunks. If you fail to kill them outright they will spray, sort of like a death rattle. Don't ask me how I know this.

Posted by: Navybrat at February 17, 2013 11:58 AM (I3elR)

169 Pre-64 Winchesters were made in the US, post 64 are not.

Posted by: Vic at February 17, 2013 03:02 PM (53z96)

Wrong.

Simplified, cheaper design, but they were still made in the USA. I don't know about current models though.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 17, 2013 12:00 PM (GsoHv)

170 I have a Benjamin pump-up in .22 and it will punch through a 2x4 at close range. IIRC top muzzle velocity is north of 600fps so it's not that far below a rim-fire. Down side is a lot of pumping to get that fast, up side is that a half dozen pumps gives just as flat a trajectory at reasonably close range, say inside 100 feet and enough power for vermin and lessor mammals. Posted by: toby928Â© typing slowly with one eye anhd one finger at February 17, 2013 01:49 PM (QupBk) I'm assuming the warning about shooting your eye out was wasted on you.

Posted by: Bill H at February 17, 2013 12:04 PM (3sZO1)

171

Thank you Gun manufactuers for seeing a GREAT way to fight the lefts meme, that we do not need Assault weapons for defense...

The Police say they need weapons to defend THEMSELVES agains the bad guys... and so get to have assault weapons, even in their own homes here in California... But the Average Citizen apparently does not need the same protection from Bad Guys, that Cops can have, EVEN OFF DUTY....

The Left HAS NO ANSWER to this double standard... as it uses THEIR own meme of everyone being the same...

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 17, 2013 12:06 PM (lZBBB)

172 I had heard they had closed the plant and moved everything to Japan and Belgium. Research sows that they moved only the headquarters to NC.

Posted by: Vic at February 17, 2013 12:07 PM (53z96)

173 Posted by: Vic at February 17, 2013 04:07 PM (53z96)

Probably now they are made somewhere else, but the big change in 1964 was a simplified design to decrease manufacturing costs. The purists went apeshit.

I don't know enough about bolt action rifle design to judge, but when I bought my deer rifle in the mid 1980s, the Remington 700 was much nicer than the Winchester Model 70.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 17, 2013 12:11 PM (GsoHv)

174

Looks as if the cops are going to have to get their weapons through straw purchasers.

You know what they used to say about swords: Never jam, never run out.

The US is lousy with KayBars, less so with the Fairbairn, and Gerbers are, not a dime a dozen, because Gerber's brand depends on being pricey. Still, lots of people have them.

Posted by: Richard Aubrey at February 17, 2013 12:17 PM (MQcrX)

175 My brother suggested that I make my own holster, too. I'm pretty crafty that way. I have checked the women and concealed carry sites but nothing for a Glock 19. I will google making my own holster. Thanks.

Posted by: megthered at February 17, 2013 12:28 PM (iR4Dg)

176 problem is, these that we have examples of are all nitrogen-powered, similar to the CO2. It still takes a compressed-gas cartridge to use. Powerful, yes, but how reliable for supply?
Posted by: Mr Wolf, non-Esq at February 17, 2013 02:12 PM

No, the nitrogen is in a cylinder and you compress it instead of a steel spring
When you release the sear it acts like a spring and compresses the air chamber through the action and propels the pellet.

Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at February 17, 2013 12:30 PM (MhA4j)

177 I started shooting air guns a few years ago. Even though my nearest neighbor is about 200 yards away I don't want to use firearms on my property - just too inconsiderate. And risky. I can plink away with an airgun from my deck and not disturb anyone.

I have a Gamo Stalker and a Hunter, both break action .177 rifles. Both very accurate and fast.

Also a pair of Daisy Avanti 717 target pistols, single shot, lever cocked. Got left handed grips for my own so I can lend the other to a visiting friend and we can shoot together. No, I don't have any left handed friends. No one should have left handed friends.

Last two are by Baikal, both Russian made. MP-514K, a barrel cocked bullpup that shoots from an eight round magazine (actually a plastic doughnut that holds 8 .177 pellets). It has a rail and so sports a cheap BSA red dot sight. Looks cool enough to make a hoplophobe piss his pants.

Then the MP-661K Drozd, a CO2 powered BB gun. Electronic select fire (single shot, three round and six round burst) and rate of fire (300, 450 or 600 rpm). Even more fun than the old Daisy Red Ryder. I shoot Gamo lead BBs, which have enough velocity to penetrate about an inch into sign posts (uh, that is, if I were irresponsible enough to shoot at signposts). The pants pissing GFW scared of the MP-514 will dump in his drawers and faint if he sees this one.

Posted by: Steve Skubinna at February 17, 2013 12:50 PM (XLQXo)

178 Airgun: best bang for the buck is a Benjamin Marauder in either .22 or .25. It's a bolt action repeater (10 shots in .22; 8 in .25) with good power (mine is tuned to get about 870 fps with 14 grain .22 pellets). You can shoot one-hole groups all day at under 25 yards, and nickel sized groups at 50y are commonplace. It is a pre-charged pneumatic (scuba tank or specialized pump needed to refill; you get 20-60 shots per fill depending on how you tune it). The .25 is powerful enough to take 'yotes and raccoons; .22 is too but you'll need very accurate shot placement. Both are more than enough for pesting, rabbits, etc. Check Pyramid Airguns for them. For handgun practice, look into some of the better (read:metal) "green gas" airsoft pistols that's a clone of your usual carry piece. You can get an inexpensive adaptor that will allow you to use propane (rather than "green gas," which can be a little pricey) as the (nonexploding) propellant, and if you get a "blowback" model it even mimics the recoil and cycling of the real thing. E.g., the KWA clone of a Sig 228/229 (cost: about $100) fits my Sig's Serpa holster perfectly, and is only a couple ounces lighter than the real thing. It feels like shooting the real thing with a .22 conversion kit installed. Decent enough accuracy at 15 yards (especially for holster, movement, and double tap / failure to stop drills), and some LEA's use them for basic force-on-force drills and training. Cost for me to run 100 shots: under $1. Is it as good as live-fire on a tactical range? Of course not, but it'll keep you sharp, and allow you to practice holster and movement drills that are verboten at most ranges -- and you can do it at home.

Posted by: LKB at February 17, 2013 12:53 PM (C65HD)

179 Any holster suggestions will be appreciated.
Posted by: megthered at February 17, 2013 02:43 PM (iR4Dg)

Nightawk SHERPA

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 17, 2013 12:56 PM (Yhu4q)

180 Can't help but think that if the government owned a gun making factory - that gun pictured above would be the top of the line model, for 100 years in a row.

Posted by: Whatev at February 17, 2013 12:57 PM (A7Wh1)

181 For those considering making holsters, Tandy Leather Factory (no longer affiliated with Radio Shack) has materials and patterns ... and not just for six-shooters. There are a couple for M1911s, one of which seems to be a neat shoulder rig. Some TLF outlets have classes, and holster-making is usually one of them. Air rifles: The pre-charged .45 and .50 caliber ones are neat, but they cost a lot of money, particularly when adding in the charging equipment. The high-velocity .177 and .22 break-barrel or pump ones are good small-game-getters, but there's something to be said for the single-stroke pneumatic air-rifles: they make nice training rifles for garage shooting. A couple of sheets of 3/4" plywood behind the target should be enough to catch strays, and these rifles are quiet enough so that shooting in a closed garage might attract no attention. Very useful for practicing form and preserving skills.

Posted by: Arbalest at February 17, 2013 01:06 PM (iKLd1)

182 Here is a blog post about the Liberator FP-45 and video of it being fired. http://tinyurl.com/bgwjoc9

Posted by: somejoe at February 17, 2013 01:24 PM (SSWdi)

183 If you can stand the waiting time Tucker Gunleather makes beautiful leather holsters and kydex holsters , which are not beautiful . Holsters should be made of leather . Well , for the same reason that baseball should be played on grass . It's what God intended .

Posted by: awkward davies at February 17, 2013 01:40 PM (USjX1)

184 When people talk about the "features" that turn an ordinary rifle into an "assault weapon", I think about a 1958 DeSoto.

Posted by: Larry Sheldon at February 17, 2013 03:13 PM (qnqTc)

185 What are SKSs selling for these days? We used to have one with the fiberglass stock. Unfortunately, we downsized on guns during an extended period of unemployment. Would be nice to have another SKS. Guy at the pawn shop yesterday said gun prices are crazy. I don't know what we were looking at, but prices were between $1400 and $2400.

Posted by: notsothoreau at February 17, 2013 03:41 PM (Lqy/e)

186 I found some 5.7 28 on the internet for the same price as at the gun show. Gee, wonder if those guys read the internets, da huh.

By May, it will all clam down. I am not paying $1.20 for a 50 cent shell.

Posted by: Billy Bob, Pseudo Intellectual at February 17, 2013 03:46 PM (wR+pz)

187 @155 It is a bit nerve racking with 3, 4, and 5 year olds wanting to 'help' I had to laugh, I have "helpers" too. 3,4, and 6. I don't reload per say but anything I try to do that isn't kid related, they are there. You know, like baking bread in a 500* oven, stuff like that.

Posted by: LindaFell at February 17, 2013 03:50 PM (PGO8C)

188 Did I miss it, did no one say this? It is so obvious.

You can't get a pellet gun, you'll shoot your eye out!

Posted by: Evan Maughan at February 17, 2013 04:25 PM (SLrDA)

189 Okay seriously, here is a good site (pyramyd air) that has a really good selection of pneumatic air rifles. Some are quit costly but they are the bomb when it comes to getting high power and accuracy.

Posted by: Evan Maughan at February 17, 2013 04:28 PM (SLrDA)

190 The Liberator is amusing, but nowhere near as cool as the British Welrod, especially the single shot version, that's just a suppressor with a simple .32acp bolt action on the back end. They were carried up the sleeve attached to the end of a piece of elastic. Just walk up to a collaborator or Gestapo agent, put the muzzle end in his back and press the trigger button. Then let go of it so that if flies up your sleeve. No muss, no fuss.

Posted by: Deanimator at February 17, 2013 05:09 PM (2YnwF)

191 I know a guy that had a Benjamin pump .22 back in the 60's before he was old enough to legally have a hunting license. He and his dad would go dove hunting. There were many remote gravel roads where you could get to within 30 yards of birds sitting on fences and shit. His dad would let him shoot out of the window of the car. Often he would shoot 6 or 7 in a day. His dad would get the biggest laugh out of it. Once the kid had to stay by the car while the grown ups worked a stubble field for pheasants. The kid was looking around plinking at a can when a big rooster popped his head up in a nearby ditchrow. The four adults returned to the car sans pheasants to find the kid with a rooster the size of a fucking goose!!!
I know the kids dad is gone now but I've heard the kid posts comments on Ace at times. After turning 12, the kid was legal to use a shotgun and has broken no fish and game laws in 48.5 years.

Posted by: owlpellets at February 17, 2013 06:15 PM (dmEoV)

192 I have one of those Benjiman NP trail air rifles. Accurate if you hold it right with a soft hold, needs this to compensate for the air spring movement. The scope will zero different between a soft and hard hold. Soft is best. Cocking and firing is slow, single shot. I recently bought a PCP, pre charged pneumatic, air rifle that has a magazine, 10 pellets, and is a repeater, much quicker and more fun. These have cylinder under the barrel that you charge to 3000 psi with a scuba tank. Benjiman Maurader is a very cost effective rifle at less than $500 . Charging from a fiberglass 4500 psi tank is the best way to go, although they run about $700 complete, but you get to shoot lots of rounds. I bought an Air Arms 510, $1140, from Pomona air rifles, see also airguns of arizona and Pyramydair on the internet for guns and stuff for air rifles. PCP's have no recoil or movement and are much more accurate.

Posted by: Bill Liebke at February 18, 2013 03:54 AM (L+iYM)

193 The younger members on my rifle team use the Benjamin Discovery .177. At a solid 1000 psi its a bit over powered for our purposes, so we picked up a pressure adjustor from an aftermarket vendor. Once they build up stamina and muscle memory we move them into Crosman Challengers.

PCP rifles are 100% the way to go - they provide a consistent discharge and there is no handling issues caused by a break barrel or pump.

Posted by: 2nd Amendment Mother at February 18, 2013 07:50 AM (L4CWX)

194

I've owned a Beeman R1 for 25 years. A spring piston single shot. Killed uncountable rabbits and squirrls with .177 pellets; head shots easy out to 35 yds. on a rest or shooting stick. Max killing range for small game/crows is about 50yds. Still shoots like new and looks it too. Its considered a "Magnum". 1000fps in .177. Also available in .20 and .22. Mine is scoped with a Beeman 4x, adjustable reticle. I own ~25 handguns and rifles. The Beeman is my favorite....a beautiful and very acurate weapon, made in Germany. You won't believe the tight groups you get at 25 yds.! I also have a Beeman P1 pistol (spring piston). Looks like a 45 ACP, ~740 fps in .177. A great target pistol. If you haven't already, check out Pyramidair.com..Have fun!

Airgun Nut

Posted by: Airgun Nut at February 18, 2013 11:27 AM (bBjHO)

195

I just got that same Benjamin Trail NP .22 in camo. Still breaking it in, but I really like it so far. It's fun to have something I can shoot in my small backyard even in my urban neighborhood. It's my first break-barrel pellet gun (I had crossman 10-pumps as a kid). Quick and easy to fire and much more powerful than I expected and pretty accurate. The scope is pretty decent for an included item and good enough for something that I would have had to buy separately with another gun. It actually has a bit of kick. I am still breaking it in, but have already put down a couple of squirrels that get into my eaves.

I will say that the trigger really is as bad, long, and unpredictable as most of the reviews say. I am about to order and put in the replacement Charlie da Tuna trigger that is a common upgrade.

Posted by: m2 at February 18, 2013 02:23 PM (XWINP)

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