Ace of Spades HQ

February 24, 2013

Gun Thread (2-24-2013)
— andy

Boycotts and Law Enforcement

'An NC Gun Blog' has a good list of companies refusing to sell to New York law enforcement agencies. The list continues to grow, but we found our first bad apple this week.

Armalite is dead to me. Bob Owens explains why:

... Armalite is trying to play both ends against the middle. They want to say they are on-board with the boycott (sort of) to placate gun owners, but they arenÂ’t; theyÂ’re still going to continue selling to individual police officersÂ… just not to the departments.
Armalite will sell to every individual officer in the department that wants an AR-15, but they wonÂ’t sell to the departmentÂ’s official purchasing agent. Wink-wink, nudge-nudge.
WestromÂ’s policy is condescending to gun owners, and is more insulting than a simple and honest, Â“no, we wonÂ’t stop sales to states that have made gun-owners second-class citizens.Â”

This is, quite simply, bullshit. Be sure to read the whole story on Bob's blog, and pay close attention to the letter from Armalite's ex-LEO CEO. What he's saying is, to borrow a line from Blade Runner, "You know the score, pal. You're not cop, you're little people!"

A state that doles out its ~~citizens'~~ subjects' civil rights based on a person's choice of profession (with a preference to those engaged in service to the state, natch) is an affront to liberty.

Related: Another good list of the good guys and comments on closing the police loophole.

(h/t @tmi3rd)

This Week's Wins In Blue States

The huge news of the week was that the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals let stand the ruling that requires Illinois to allow concealed carry.

A little closer to home, an "assault weapons" ban proposed in Westford, MA went down in flames.

Congratulations to the second amendment activists who led these charges.

Related: Oregon is pushing the worst bill seen to date after saying earlier in the week that the bill would be dropped.

Universal Background Checks

Tom Coburn claims the Senate isn't close to a deal. Prepare to be sold out on this one.

Gun Of The Week

(answer below)
Marksmanship Award

Hero of the Day - Texas: Homeowner Shoots At Theft Suspect - foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_sÂ… #NRA (via @kabbfox29)
— Cam and Company (@CamAndCompany) February 20, 2013

The Doofus Files, Starring Joe Biden

Slow Joe took to dispensing gun advice this week with predictably hilarious results. Bob Owens did a nice job summarizing it:

Super-genius Joe Biden advises committing a felony instead of defending yourself

At PJM: Clueless Joe BidenÂ’s felonious self defense advice will put you in prison

Is Joe Biden right? Comparing the double-barreled shotgun to the AR-15 for self defense

About That VA Letter

There was a report earlier in the week about the Veterans Administration reporting veterans who were going through guardianship proceedings to NICS, which would suspend without due process their right to purchase a firearm.

As usual, the guys at This Ain't Hell were all over this and have a great explanation of the facts.

Gun Of The Week - Answer

It looks like a Heckler & Koch G3/91, but it isn't. It's a CETME Model C, which used a roller-delayed blowback action inspired by the MG42's roller-lock system and was the precursor to the H&K.

Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Posted by: andy at 11:22 AM | Comments (238)
Post contains 606 words, total size 6 kb.

1 So what is happening in Oregon?

Posted by: pat at February 24, 2013 11:25 AM (L1Yma)

2 Â“Read faster rabbit Â… read faster, or IÂ’ll blast your head off!Â”

Posted by: Yosemite Sam at February 24, 2013 11:27 AM (4Mv1T)

The question becomes... how did Police somehow, by virtue of their Job, become citiznes with MORE Rights than normal Citizens?

They can Conceal Carry in most places without a permit... even when off duty.. in places where no one else can...

They can buy assault weapons... for personal use.... yet we cannot here in California...

And strangly enough... the MILITARY... ie those with the MOST training in Assault Weapons... cannot buy them for themselves... yet Police can?

We need to attack this double standard.... if a COP needs a PERSONAL Assault Rifle for self defense.... how can they say a Citizen does not.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 24, 2013 11:28 AM (lZBBB)

4 ? Am I banned?

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 24, 2013 11:29 AM (/gHaE)

5 Â“IÂ’m Yosemite Sam Â… The meanest, toughest, rip-roarinest, Edward Everett Hortonest hombre whatever packed a six shooter!Â”

Posted by: Yosemite Sam at February 24, 2013 11:30 AM (4Mv1T)

6 The Westford Selectman, who is a liar, lied. He stated he wanted to "start a discussion."

Passing a law is the end of a discussion.

Posted by: fluffy at February 24, 2013 11:30 AM (z9HTb)

7 if a COP needs a PERSONAL Assault Rifle for self defense.... how can they say a Citizen does not.

O.L.I.G.A.R.C.H.Y.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 24, 2013 11:31 AM (/gHaE)

8 Here in CA. we have had a few recent lessons about trusting cops with guns

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 11:31 AM (XDC0v)

9 Everything Bob Owens writes is well worth reading

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 11:34 AM (XDC0v)

10 Posted by: @PurpAv at February 24, 2013 03:29 PM (/gHaE)

It's about time!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 24, 2013 11:35 AM (GsoHv)

11 It looks like a lot of Democrat pimples are appearing at the same time. And it looks like the Progressives overplayed their hand, badly. The 2014 elections are about 20 months away ... what will be discovered in the meantime? Stay tuned.

Posted by: Arbalest at February 24, 2013 11:35 AM (h9uo8)

shit

I guessed the G3 right away

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 24, 2013 11:36 AM (90a/X)

13 Updated to add Oregon. I meant to include that.

Posted by: Andy at February 24, 2013 11:36 AM (OZPoa)

14 Is it my browser that's killing the photo of the gun of the week, or is it some cryptic reference that I don't get?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 24, 2013 11:36 AM (GsoHv)

15 "Tom Coburn claims the Senate isn't close to a deal. Prepare to be sold out on this one."

Since I'm prepared to be sold out on every single issue of moment by the GOP Senate contingent (illegal alien amnesty, Chuck Hagel, Sandy "relief" pork bombs, et cetera), one more sellout will come as absolutely no surprise.

And you can be sure that on any sellout, there will be McMaverick leading the way.

Posted by: torquewrench at February 24, 2013 11:37 AM (gqT4g)

16 DAve- The .60 per rd price you just paid for 5.56. You're in CA right? Do you think that price is due to your locale or is the best you are seeing? I bought some about two-three weeks ago for .44 rd, but haven't seen anymore like that since.

Posted by: Yosemite Sam at February 24, 2013 11:37 AM (4Mv1T)

17 If they wanted "compromise" that back ground check bill would require CCW reciprocity nationwide. Especially for states like Illinois or may issue states. Sean at NCGunblog has been doing great work keeping up the non-Quisling list.

Posted by: JDRush at February 24, 2013 11:40 AM (k5Fs1)

18 Joe Biden is the Blue Blood Country Club's embarrassing pet idiot.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile[/i] at February 24, 2013 11:40 AM (e/OuK)

19 Andy, will you call Mrs. North up and convince her to get into guns please?

Posted by: Truman, schmuman at February 24, 2013 11:41 AM (0iDjO)

20 @ 16 are you guys buying reloads or new brass? And why not look into a good 30=06 or 30-30. you really think the be all end all is the 5.56?

Posted by: Clemenza at February 24, 2013 11:41 AM (x59Gv)

21 Joe Biden only embarrasses conservatives. He's like the left teabagging us.

Posted by: Truman, schmuman at February 24, 2013 11:42 AM (0iDjO)

whoa

imagine this

joe biden moves in next door to you

one night at say 2am you are on your balcony and see slow joe with a db12g

holy shit

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 24, 2013 11:42 AM (90a/X)

23 @ 16 load your own brass...that way you will avoid the 5 cent a round tax coming to Mexifornia..

Posted by: Clemenza at February 24, 2013 11:43 AM (x59Gv)

24 Have you tried selling her on the investment angle Tru?

Posted by: teej at February 24, 2013 11:43 AM (OqOKd)

25 Great comment on The Gun Of The Week link,
The discussion in the article is how reasonably priced it is....
"For another $2300 you could buy a case of ammunition for it."

Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at February 24, 2013 11:43 AM (MhA4j)

26
Did I miss something, or shouldn't you actually,like, SHOW a pic of the gun of the week?

Posted by: irongrampa at February 24, 2013 11:44 AM (SAMxH)

27 Here's something you can add Andy. Cause what does every Moron love almost as much as guns. Boobs. Tactical Girls http://tinyurl.com/af5tyn8

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 24, 2013 11:45 AM (2ycOl)

28 The gun of the week is ? camouflaged?

Took my new .357mag wheelgun out for a spin yesterday. It's as sweet as I had hoped.

Posted by: Fritz at February 24, 2013 11:45 AM (WM+rJ)

29 Clemenza, 3 different calibers that serve 3 different functions.

Posted by: teej at February 24, 2013 11:45 AM (OqOKd)

30 Kick-ass speech by Dan Bongino at a rally in Annapolis, MD

Link in nic

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at February 24, 2013 11:46 AM (Ipj15)

31 Off cartoon character sock.

>>>you really think the be all end all is the 5.56?

No. Because that's what my new rifle shoots, and I like it.

What's this burr up your hindquarters?

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 24, 2013 11:46 AM (4Mv1T)

32 16 CA. dems will be able to pass whatever they want because of their supermajority. We're waiting for the ax to fall. I'm expecting background checks for and no bulk or internet sales of ammo. There's pretty much no .223 or 5.56 to be found unless you can camp out and hit the retailers right when their shipments come in- and then they have a box limit. Ammo makers and retailers tell me not even any components for at least 3 months, most say six. Lots can happen in that much time- I'd rather have and pay too much than get caught without- Oregon's outrageous new gun laws went into effect the day the laws were passed. Best I'm seeing is .65/rd. Average is .70. Anything less gets grabbed up by people who can just resell it for .20/rd more than what they just paid for it. Everyone's talking about some deal they just got (like .45/rd.), but noone can get that same deal again anymore

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 11:48 AM (XDC0v)

33 .357mag wheelgun Smith, Ruger or something else?

Posted by: Rule #2 at February 24, 2013 11:48 AM (CypDC)

34 23 Load your own brass with WHAT? Feel free to tell me where I can get components

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 11:49 AM (XDC0v)

35 20 I already bought all the 30-30 and .308 I could find. Where is there more?

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 11:50 AM (XDC0v)

36 Tobacco, Did you go to the show this weekend?

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 11:50 AM (doBIb)

37 I'm all about investment with this. I passed readiness a long time ago

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 11:51 AM (XDC0v)

38 >>>Smith, Ruger or something else?

Smith [ampersand] Wesson Mod 686

Posted by: Fritz at February 24, 2013 11:52 AM (WM+rJ)

39 All the herd that bought AR's is gonna need ammo. If you can get .223 or 5.56 get it.

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 11:53 AM (XDC0v)

40 I'm looking for a bolt action rifle in .308 with a box magazine. Any suggestions?

Posted by: Rule #2 at February 24, 2013 11:53 AM (CypDC)

41 Is it my browser that's killing the photo of the gun of the week, or is it some cryptic reference that I don't get?

Posted by: CharlieBrown's

Pointing out the loose shit on AoSHQ?

That's a paddlin'.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at February 24, 2013 11:53 AM (Ipj15)

42 40 I got the Ruger American Rifle and it seems nice. Nutnfancy likes it. Look on youtube.

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 11:55 AM (XDC0v)

43 >>>Everyone's talking about some deal they just got (like .45/rd.), but no one can get that same deal again anymore

A friend of mine received in the past 10 days 1000rds of Federal 5.56 bulk at about .36 a rd. He ordered it a while back and didn't expect to see it till April or May. I talked to his source on the phone, maybe three weeks ago, and they acted like that was some sort of ancient history, not to be repeated for two years, which it may well be.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 24, 2013 11:55 AM (4Mv1T)

44 Stainless S&W Sweet

Posted by: teej at February 24, 2013 11:55 AM (Op+RR)

45 41 Pointing out the loose shit on AoSHQ? That's a ~~paddlin'~~ drone strike. Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 24, 2013 03:53 PM (Ipj15) Fixed

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 24, 2013 11:56 AM (2ycOl)

46 43 That's what I believe. That's why I think "profit taking" by selling at .50/rd may seem like a good idea but really isn't.

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 11:57 AM (XDC0v)

47 EC- No show this weekend. Pray tell, what have I missed??

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 24, 2013 11:57 AM (4Mv1T)

Truman, I took my wife for her first time with a .22 pistol -- not loud, no pain in the hand.

Started with targets at ten feet and used the ones that change color with the hit. She told me "You created a monster." She loved it.

Posted by: Die Trying at February 24, 2013 11:57 AM (w7J/R)

49 46 "not to be repeated for two years, which it may well be" IF EVER is my prediction

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 11:58 AM (XDC0v)

50 Andy,

Your point about police having greater access to weapons is a perfect extension of Ace's recent posts about the new Gilded Age, and the mandarins who will rule us all (with protection from those same cops who are afforded more rights than the rest of us).

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 24, 2013 11:59 AM (GsoHv)

51 Tobacco, There was the C and E gun show this weekend at the fairgrounds. I was going to go but the day got away from me.

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 11:59 AM (doBIb)

52 If you are going to buy an AR you should get a Bushmaster for full evil effect.

Posted by: blaster at February 24, 2013 11:59 AM (/1U3u)

53 "I'm expecting background checks for and no bulk or internet sales of ammo [in CA]."

That useless piece of rancid shit Schwarzenegger tried a ban on Internet sales of ammo as one of his last actions before leaving office.

The courts thankfully slapped that shit down.

Thanks so much to the brilliant California GOP for putting that fuckwit Ahnuld in office. Never failing to fail, is their motto.

Meanwhile, Schwarzenegger's liberal Democratic successor Jerry (Moonbeam) Brown is turning loose hundreds of convicted killers from state prison to "save money".

Posted by: torquewrench at February 24, 2013 12:00 PM (gqT4g)

54 I disagree. Why pick meaningless fights? Until you get super-premium they're pretty much all the same

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:00 PM (XDC0v)

55 If ya'll wouldn't mind , please mention your favorite personal handgun . I'm thinking about going in to the custom gunleather business , holsters , gunbealts , and rifle slings , mostly . I've made about a dozen holsters and 5 double layer gunbelts . People seem to be happy with them , and I have had several inquiries from gunshops . It might be time to take the plunge . Anyway I'm asking about the hordes favorite sidearms so I'll know which guns to keep holsters in stock for . According to my limited research 1911's in full size and 4" seem to be favorites followed by mid size Glocks . I'll total up the hordes hogleg "Diversity" towards the end of the thread . Thanks in advance

Posted by: awkward davies at February 24, 2013 12:01 PM (USjX1)

".... I took my wife for the first time with a .22 pistol..."

That was not said right.

Posted by: Mister Malaprop at February 24, 2013 12:01 PM (w7J/R)

57 Soft drink manufacturers should boycott new york as well. No 2 liter sales, cutoff the state. Bloomberg wouldn't last the weekend.

Posted by: Milo at February 24, 2013 12:01 PM (1agxt)

58 Probably wasting my time if I went anyways. Ammo is going to be crazy and everything is jacked up. I did manage to score a couple boxes of 5.56 at Gander Mountain a week ago for 50 cents a round.

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 12:01 PM (doBIb)

59 53 Yep. Releasing hyper-violent felons and taking away guns from law-abiding citizens. Golden State.

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:02 PM (XDC0v)

60 EC- I just can't bear the crowds. I did read that the new rules they made went over well, or so the local rag said. You know one guy showed up with a loaded shotgun for sale last show, went off while being checked in and injured three people. Now they are checking them like they do at the range when checking in, which makes sense.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 24, 2013 12:02 PM (4Mv1T)

61 That's a paddlin'.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 24, 2013 03:53 PM (Ipj15)

Not fair! I was simply asking whether is was in the same vein as Maetenloch's coded ONT.

Although if you can arrange a paddling from this person, I'm game.

http://tinyurl.com/bsfszo7

NSFW

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 24, 2013 12:02 PM (GsoHv)

62 Hey you guys...

I attended the local Day of Resistance rally yesterday. Everyone was strapped and I never felt safer.

I got a picture of a little girl of about eight there with her mommy (who was smoking hot BTW) and daddy. She had a cute little .22 rifle slung on her shoulder

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 24, 2013 12:02 PM (Yhu4q)

63 Well it appears that every true liberal has ripped their 'moderate' mask off now NY MN MO WA OR all have some sort of AWB proposed with confiscation on the table.

Posted by: Jake in ID at February 24, 2013 12:03 PM (U97pt)

64 58 I agree. No gun shows for me- calguns

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:03 PM (XDC0v)

65 Tobacco, If you come with a weapon, you go through a different door. I thought about going and taking a pistol with me do I could get in faster and pretend I was going to sell it. Hehe....

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 12:03 PM (doBIb)

66 @ 55

1911--onlyone I ever handled that felt right.

Posted by: irongrampa at February 24, 2013 12:04 PM (SAMxH)

67 Rule #2 I assume you mean detachable magazine. The cheapest good new one would probably be Savage, it's an option on some models, check their site. The Remington 700 is the star of the set with the most custom parts and people have converted M14 20 round magazines for them, but the rifles cost 50 to 100 % more, 450 to 800 or so depending on variants. Savaga and Steyr and others make "Scout" rifles, lightweight detachable magazine bolt guns with long eye releif scopes, many in 308.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile[/i] at February 24, 2013 12:04 PM (e/OuK)

68 Albie, You know the drill....pics or GTFO.

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 12:05 PM (doBIb)

69 Last gun show at Boise had a 1,000 case of 7.62x39 for north of $600 dude! I thought a case for $240 was steep

Posted by: Jake in ID at February 24, 2013 12:05 PM (U97pt)

70 Posted by: Jake in ID at February 24, 2013 04:03 PM (U97pt)

Add NJ to that list.

I f%#@ing hate this place.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 24, 2013 12:05 PM (GsoHv)

71 67 Problem with the "Scout" models is that they qualify as "assault rifles"- detachable mag + one other feature...

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:05 PM (XDC0v)

72 A way to speed up background checks is to progulmate the no-sell NCIC list, updated twice a day or more often. Checks could be made locally by sellers themselves without logjams. This is how the NCIC stolen vehicle lists get designated widely to towing and parking companies ... if, protecting the privacy of those on the no-sell list ( why?, their actions to get listed took a public document of some sort) is an issue, then hash the list and distribute keys to trusted people, like FFLs or the NRA.

Posted by: Jean at February 24, 2013 12:05 PM (3tFLC)

73 >>Posted by: awkward davies at February 24, 2013 04:01 PM (USjX1)

Mostly I carry a concealed Glock 19, but also a S&W 1911, and Ruger .357 when I'm not playing hide the firestick

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 24, 2013 12:06 PM (Yhu4q)

Gun shops have counted on ammo sales to help pay the rent. I expect gun show attendance to see a big decline.

Empty shelves benefit no one.

Posted by: Die Trying at February 24, 2013 12:06 PM (w7J/R)

75
That Oregon Bill is disgusting.

As far as the Repubs in DC, they will probably go for a sell out. If there were actually liberty loving reps there, they wouldn't just maybe vote no, they would be introducing bills to end all federal gun laws to fight these bastards.

But dream on. Dream on.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 24, 2013 12:07 PM (p/cQy)

76 @66 ,,Me too grandpa .

Posted by: awkward davies at February 24, 2013 12:07 PM (USjX1)

77 It's also interesting that we can get a background check system to work, but can't get e-verify too work.

Posted by: Jean at February 24, 2013 12:08 PM (3tFLC)

78 Our county is out of .243!!!!!!! While a very few semis, levers and a pump exist, this is the quintessential bolt action round. A bench and game round for the person who hunts or shoots for accuracy and the table.

Posted by: pat at February 24, 2013 12:08 PM (L1Yma)

79 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 24, 2013 04:02 PM (GsoHv) I knew who it was before following the link.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 24, 2013 12:09 PM (2ycOl)

80 77 We can't deport violent aliens but we can go house-to-house confiscating guns from citizens

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:09 PM (XDC0v)

81 Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 24, 2013 04:09 PM (2ycOl)

Well, it may be a rut, but it's a very nice rut!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 24, 2013 12:10 PM (GsoHv)

82 Dave, they're bolt action.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile[/i] at February 24, 2013 12:10 PM (e/OuK)

83 Pat, What's a decent price for the .243 round?

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 12:11 PM (doBIb)

84 81 Well, it may be a rut, but it's a very nice rut! Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 24, 2013 04:10 PM (GsoHv) Did you hear a complaint???

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 24, 2013 12:12 PM (GEICT)

85 I agree. Definitely the Senate and enough Republicans in the house can hardly wait to sell out 'the rubes'. The Constitution and the nation do not hold a candle to the power Washington gains by having the middle class being declared a criminal class subject to arrest and search at the whim of a government official.

Posted by: pat at February 24, 2013 12:12 PM (L1Yma)

86 Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 04:09 PM (XDC0v)

Amazing how the mandarinate prioritize their actions against the very citizens they pretend to represent!

Posted by: Hrothgar at February 24, 2013 12:12 PM (Cnqmv)

87 EC- Tell of this rifle ammo you bought. 20pack? 50? Bulk? reloads? new?

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 24, 2013 12:12 PM (4Mv1T)

88 The font, man, it's, like, dude, waaaaaay small, man. Small, man. Small. I knew I shouldn't have had the brown acid, man! It's turned me into a GIANT!!!

Posted by: andycanuck at February 24, 2013 12:13 PM (ORGYc)

89 Awkward davies large frame Glock forever. . I like othet hanguns, like the 1911, but my go-to is the Glock. . I know the medium frames are a lot more popular, though.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile[/i] at February 24, 2013 12:13 PM (e/OuK)

90 55 awkward davies Ruger sp-101 2.25" revolver in 357 mag. There is an equivalent S&W, but I'm not sure of the model (60?). How about an IWB holster design.

Posted by: Rule #2 at February 24, 2013 12:14 PM (CypDC)

91 Posted by: irongrampa at February 24, 2013 04:04 PM (SAMxH)

Pretty impressive design. I have one, and my next favorite is an H and K full-size. It comes close (for my hand at least) but Mr. Browning still wins.

What's amazing is that another great pistol design (Browning Hi-Power) is his also.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 24, 2013 12:14 PM (GsoHv)

92 Stupid phone keyboard.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile[/i] at February 24, 2013 12:14 PM (e/OuK)

93 82 Well, I've recently racked up quite a record being wrong when I'm arguing with you, but the standards I've seen only required detachable mag+ one other feature to be classified as "assault rifles". Semi auto was not a requirement

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:15 PM (XDC0v)

94 20 Clemenza,

there are very good reasons to have Mil Twist 5.56 as an ammo choice....

Posted by: sven10077 at February 24, 2013 12:16 PM (LRFds)

95 Tobacco, Gander Mountain in Cary had Independence brand 5.56 ammo there last week for 50 cents/round in 20rd boxes. I noticed it at the same time some other guy did and he swept the entire lot into his basket with his arm. GM has a 500 rd limit per customer and he had to put 100 RDS back on the table that I took. I gave my buddy 60 RDS since he needed some. That other guy was about to get his ass kicked by the other customers there who came 10 seconds too late to the table.

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 12:16 PM (doBIb)

96
   Next gun on the chopping block will be the autoloading shotguns. Military uses some,so there's justification.

    Next will be the bolt actions (snipers use these).

    Interesting that I turned a grabber's argument back on her-"if carrying a weapon saves one child's life,it's worth it". She had no answer.

Posted by: irongrampa at February 24, 2013 12:17 PM (SAMxH)

97 .243 goes for about $1.40 for a good 100 grain (white and axis deer, sheep ,goat, antelope, and all but the biggest hogs). Winchester white box and grey box is sometimes a bit cheaper. Say 90 cents prior to the shortage. The .243 comes in just about as many variations as one can imagine. The varmint rounds , 40-55 grain, 4000 fps are a lot more if you can find them. Maybe $1.60. Midway is a good source for exotic .243.

Posted by: pat at February 24, 2013 12:17 PM (L1Yma)

98 95 people are such assholes about that. Like they wouldn't have taken it all if they had been there first. Lack of preparation on their part does not equal a requirement to share on my part.

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:18 PM (XDC0v)

99 The neighbor got a pizza delivered last night and I saw that the guy was wearing a sidearm. I wonder if that's to make sure he gets tipped.

Speaking of food delivery services, I have a business plan to open a Buffalo wing joint that does delivery only. I'll only hire hot girls and make them wear tube tops while working.

I'm gonna call it Knockers

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 24, 2013 12:18 PM (Yhu4q)

100 Kick-ass speech by Dan Bongino at a rally in Annapolis, MD

Link in nic
Posted by: weft cut-loop

This was great indeed. I loved the woman in the background with the sign:

I Support Free Choice

A Sig or a Glock

Posted by: Cheri at February 24, 2013 12:18 PM (EAgmr)

101 Pat, I'm seeing $1.20/rd at Luckygunner. Go now and clear them out.

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 12:19 PM (doBIb)

102 55 awkward davies,

My faves are the HP-35, the 1851 R-M, and the M-9....

that said I am seriously pondering a Chiappa Rhino and there is a paucity of holster selections for it most especially shoulder holsters.

The Caracal 9c QS is a bit dry as well.

You feel free to remind me you are in the business if you see me posting I dropped the hammer on a new gun please?

Posted by: sven10077 at February 24, 2013 12:19 PM (LRFds)

103 rule #2 @90 , I'll have to see how business goes as far as designs . Right now I make two high ride owb types for strong side carry . One is full coverage and one is yaqui type . Both work for concealment with a shirt untucked or a light jacket as they ride very tight to the body .

Posted by: awkward davies at February 24, 2013 12:20 PM (USjX1)

104 Not "Hot Pluckers", Albie?

And I hope you're just opening in the southern states or you might not get too many volunteers in February in e.g. Buffalo.

Posted by: andycanuck at February 24, 2013 12:21 PM (ORGYc)

105

With ammo scarce, I'm looking into substitutes for Range Time: Maybe the LaserLyte targets http://tinyurl.com/d6ttzrc or equivalent.

Posted by: Die Trying at February 24, 2013 12:21 PM (w7J/R)

106 Posted by: Albie Damned at February 24, 2013 04:18 PM (Yhu4q)
In Colorado have them throw in a doobie, Dr Pepper and ice cream cake and you will have a hit.

Posted by: pat at February 24, 2013 12:21 PM (L1Yma)

107 Shhhh, on the auto shotties. Maybe the libs won't notice.

Posted by: Jean at February 24, 2013 12:22 PM (gKGI0)

108 You mention Calguns a lot, Dave. It's all there (they have a big FAQ made by the CGF's lawyers). . Besides, what would the other feature be?

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile[/i] at February 24, 2013 12:22 PM (e/OuK)

109 I predict we will see counterfeiting and reloads sold as new very soon in ammo if we haven't already.

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:22 PM (XDC0v)

110 DAve, If two people are at the table at the same time, how should the split go? 50-50? 95-5?

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 12:22 PM (doBIb)

111 awkward davies, any interest in doing a holster/belt combo for a Colt SAA?

Posted by: Andy at February 24, 2013 12:23 PM (OZPoa)

112 EC- As for that ammo grabber, there's a saying I like to remember.

Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 24, 2013 12:23 PM (4Mv1T)

113 108 Scouts have a flash hider. You're referring to the current legal definition of an assault rifle. They're trying to change that. Including making bullet buttons no longer legal exemptions.

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:23 PM (XDC0v)

114 I've heard the Russkies are running their ammo plants like it was 1944

Posted by: Jean at February 24, 2013 12:24 PM (gKGI0)

115 110 50-50 I'd imagine. But that's at the same time.

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:25 PM (XDC0v)

116

@109 I took a chance on 100 rounds of .38 special without a name brand at a gun show last month. "It was loaded by the guy at the next table."

Do'h. Wasn't thinking. Lots of bad things can happen if it is crappy ammo.

Posted by: Homer Simpson at February 24, 2013 12:25 PM (w7J/R)

117 112 That's the slogan on the Gate above Animal Farm. Who's the hog police?

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:26 PM (XDC0v)

118 Awkward davies, also look at holsters for women. They do not have a large selection. Also think of the fun getting volunteers to help you fit the designs properly.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile[/i] at February 24, 2013 12:26 PM (e/OuK)

119 >>>Lack of preparation on their part does not equal a requirement to share on my part.

I'm not buying that DAve.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 24, 2013 12:26 PM (4Mv1T)

120 Well then this other guy I mentioned was being a total dick about it. Common courtesy is a dead virtue with some people.

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 12:26 PM (doBIb)

121 116 That is correct

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:26 PM (XDC0v)

122 Andy @111 , You talking western rigs like the Cowboy action shooters or modern rigs ?

Posted by: awkward davies at February 24, 2013 12:28 PM (USjX1)

123 My fave hand cannon is my Glock model 30.
For which my hollow points are soon to be illegal to possess in my current abode. You heard that right, mere possession will be a crime. Better take them to the summer house.

Posted by: navybrat at February 24, 2013 12:29 PM (11wwj)

124 119 Really? Will you dictate to me what I can sell my .223 for if I bought it for .30/rd.? Will you tell me what the "fair" amount of profit I'm allowed to take is? Or do we trust the markets to determine value?

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:29 PM (XDC0v)

125 119 Where in the Constitution am i required to share? What other commodities am I required to share?

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:30 PM (XDC0v)

126 120 If I get the last piece of pie am I required to split it with everyone else who wants some?

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:31 PM (XDC0v)

127 DAve at February 24, 2013 04:22 PM (XDC0v)

What we are seeing is some middling quality ammo coming in from Serbia, Russia, and Mexico and some really good stuff coming in from Germany, Italy and Sweden. Pouring in. Remington appears to have slowed down the quality lines and open up the bulk rounds. Federal is pushing American Eagle, its volume line. In both instances the rounds are made on the same machines as regular, but are not run through the rigorous inspection process, so there are rounds that would be culled from the hunting/match lines.But hell, I remember when Federal was a second brand. Now all Federal red box is better than Winchester white box.

Posted by: pat at February 24, 2013 12:31 PM (L1Yma)

128 DAve, Don't be stupid. I was describing an asshole customer who thought it was ok to lunge for everything on the table while I was there at the same time. No one here is talking about setting prices or appropriate levels of profits.

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 12:32 PM (doBIb)

129 Are you guys who got .223 for .40/rd. required to share your stash with me now? I want it...

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:33 PM (XDC0v)

130 DAve- What we're talking about is a guy who came into a retail store, grabbed everything he could grab, over and beyond what the store posted was the limit. He's an asshole, everyone there thought so as EC has described. If you want to be that guy. The choice is yours.

Let's move on from this one. Not up for a dust up till the scotch comes out this evening

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 24, 2013 12:33 PM (4Mv1T)

131 Lellier and Bellot (CZ) is a good quality round

red/green/white box

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 24, 2013 12:34 PM (8sCoq)

132

>>I've heard the Russkies are running their ammo plants like it was 1944

Let's get a boat and run ammo from Russia to Sarah Palin's house.

Posted by: Mama AJ at February 24, 2013 12:34 PM (SUKHu)

133 128 EC,

"etiquette"

Yes comrade EC you were demanding the installation of marxism....

//s

Posted by: sven10077 at February 24, 2013 12:34 PM (LRFds)

134 Yes, dave, I am referring to the law as it is written and not laws that haven't been passed yet.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile[/i] at February 24, 2013 12:34 PM (e/OuK)

135 Merovign , fitting holsters for nubile women would be a lot more fun if I were young and single , as it is I've been married to the same woman for 32 yrs . Now, a nice tight fitting shoulder rig for Sarah Palin , that would be ,,, interesting .

Posted by: awkward davies at February 24, 2013 12:34 PM (USjX1)

136 5 laps to go, Danica 3rd

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 24, 2013 12:35 PM (8sCoq)

137 128 Same time makes the difference. I thought you said you got there 10 secs. later... jujst reminded me of little children or puppies who don't want something until someone else is looking like they're enjoying it.

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:36 PM (XDC0v)

138 DAve, Re-read 95 again.

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 12:37 PM (doBIb)

139 127 Where are you seeing ammo pouring in?

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:38 PM (XDC0v)

140 >>5 laps to go, Danica 3rd

Even that sounds sexual

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 24, 2013 12:38 PM (Yhu4q)

141 The guy that took all the ammo only mistake was not counting it to the 500 limit and putting one back. Gander Mountain could have set it out 100 at a time to spread the wealth/happy customers but they didn't.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 24, 2013 12:39 PM (qo244)

142 Don't bother EC. Not worth the effort.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 24, 2013 12:39 PM (GEICT)

143 Jimmie Johnson wins; Danica 8th

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 24, 2013 12:39 PM (8sCoq)

144 141 That's what i meant

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:40 PM (XDC0v)

145 I thought Danica was supposed to win?

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 12:40 PM (doBIb)

146 Got that attitude in church, didja?

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:40 PM (XDC0v)

147

We win.

For Immediate Release: 2/22/2013

BELLEVUE, WA Â– The Second Amendment Foundation today won a significant victory for concealed carry when the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals let stand a December ruling by a three-judge panel of the court that forces Illinois to adopt a concealed carry law, thus affirming that the right to bear arms exists outside the home.

The ruling came in Moore v. Madigan, a case filed by SAF. The December opinion that now stands was written by Judge Richard Posner, who gave the Illinois legislature 180 days to Â“craft a new gun law that will impose reasonable limitations, consistent with the public safety and the Second AmendmentÂ…on the carrying of guns in public.Â” That clock is ticking, noted SAF Executive Vice President Alan Gottlieb.

Â“Illinois lawmakers need to create some kind of licensing system or face the prospect of not having any regulations at all when Judge PosnerÂ’s deadline arrives,Â” Gottlieb said. Â“They need to act. They can no longer run and hide from this mandate.Â”

Â“We were delighted with Judge PosnerÂ’s ruling in December,Â” he continued, Â“and todayÂ’s decision by the entire circuit to allow his ruling to stand is a major victory, and not just for gun owners in Illinois. Judge PosnerÂ’s ruling affirmed that the right to keep and bear arms, itself, extends beyond the boundary of oneÂ’s front door.Â”

In December, Judge Posner wrote, Â“The right to Â‘bearÂ’ as distinct from the right to Â‘keepÂ’ arms is unlikely to refer to the home. To speak of Â‘bearingÂ’ arms within oneÂ’s home would at all times have been an awkward usage. A right to bear arms thus implies a right to carry a loaded gun outside the home.Â”

Judge Posner subsequently added, Â“To confine the right to be armed to the home is to divorce the Second Amendment from the right of self-defense described in Heller and McDonald.Â”

Posted by: harleycowboy at February 24, 2013 12:41 PM (+9AX9)

148 Awkward, well the fittings would be done with Bearkillers' knife at your neck

Posted by: Jean at February 24, 2013 12:41 PM (k8qQE)

149 Gotta go for a couple hrs , folks . Be back later for catchup .

Posted by: awkward davies at February 24, 2013 12:42 PM (USjX1)

150 >>>Gander Mountain could have set it out 100 at a time to spread the wealth/happy customers but they didn't.

You have to go in one of these stores. Not like anything I've ever seen. There must be 100 yards (literally) of long gun racks down the walls. Two weeks ago bulk 45ACP in boxes of 500 stacked on a skid out in the aisle. You literally have to take a number to talk to a clerk about guns, mags, or optics. They have too many customers to manage the floor where the ammo is.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 24, 2013 12:42 PM (4Mv1T)

151 Just ran through some of my online ammo links. All the below are showing factory .243 in stock, at around $27-$33 per 20rd box depending on manufacturer. jgsales ammunitiontogo powdervalleyinc

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at February 24, 2013 12:43 PM (MBqvE)

152 Stop whining you gun nuts! What's the worst that will happen after we confiscate all you guns! You can trust us!

Posted by: Pol Pot at February 24, 2013 12:45 PM (Vk2pI)

153 Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 24, 2013 04:42 PM (4Mv1T) It's worse than that at my local GM. As of a couple weeks ago, they had 2 or 3 people camping out starting at 230am on the mornings when their ammo shipment comes in. 20-30 ppl at door when they opened. Clerk said it was nuts. All of them headed for guns and ammo. Said ARs last all of about 15 mins on shelf, no matter when they come in.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 24, 2013 12:46 PM (GEICT)

154 BTW. Just gave my boy a brand new .243 Thompson/Center Icon, UltraWood. he is a target shooter.

Posted by: pat at February 24, 2013 12:49 PM (L1Yma)

155 In addition to the other groups, support the Second Amendment Foundation. They fight the good fight in the courts. Check out the list of cases at their website. http://www.saf.org/

Posted by: real joe at February 24, 2013 12:49 PM (PD2ad)

156 They have too many customers to manage the floor where the ammo is.>>

If they had 600rds that day Each guy taking a hundred to the table at their piss break would cover that time. Or they could change it to a 100 round limit. But the guy that got there first gets whats there. It may be a dick move if somebody's standing there at the same time but we all live with that everyday. Getting cut off on the road the guy you work with taking credit for what you did etc. It aint worth thinking about since like playing pulltabs at the bar you never would have known who won if you showed up 10 minutes later.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 24, 2013 12:50 PM (qo244)

157 I wonder if Danica wears anything under that firesuit

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 24, 2013 12:50 PM (Yhu4q)

158 @Tobacco, EC, DAve,

It is our right to behave like asses...we just shouldn't exercise it too frequently.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 24, 2013 12:50 PM (GsoHv)

159

147 A lot of women will be safer in Chicago -- like the ones with d/b ex-husbands or ex-BFs who don't much care about restraining orders and such.

And the exes will be thinking about that.

Posted by: Homer Simpson at February 24, 2013 12:50 PM (w7J/R)

160 You have to go in one of these stores. Not like anything I've ever seen. There must be 100 yards (literally) of long gun racks down the walls. Two weeks ago bulk 45ACP in boxes of 500 stacked on a skid out in the aisle. You literally have to take a number to talk to a clerk about guns, mags, or optics. They have too many customers to manage the floor where the ammo is. Every other place I've been to has ammo BEHIND the counter, away from customers. There's no shortage of shotgun or hunting rounds. It's all 223 and 22LR that's out. Gander Mountain is now bundling their ammo with guns. They have several crates of 223 and 22LR with the purchase of an AR15 or one of those 22LR versions of the MP5. I suppose you could buy the gun to get the ammo, then turn right around and sell the gun back to their "used guns" section.

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 12:50 PM (doBIb)

161

    From what I see and read, there is no conceivable way that the guns in this country could possibly be confiscated.

    Way too many. Look at what just ONE individual did--talking about Dorner here--last week. Multiply him by several hundred thousand, just as a very conservative number.

Each situation doesn't have to end similarly, in fact it'd be best if they didn't. Still a nightmare for authority.

Posted by: irongrampa at February 24, 2013 12:50 PM (SAMxH)

162 Yeah I think BCochran has the right idea. . For people into reloading but worried about components, don't forget to check small local shops as well as big chains, they often carry small or even large amounts and don't tend to sell out as quickly (IME). On the other has big chains may get new orders more frequently. . For those in or near northern CA, Huntington's in Oroville seems to be the last to sell out. Probably because they're next door to RCBS, who make components as well as reloading presses and other tools. Definitely call first.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile[/i] at February 24, 2013 12:51 PM (e/OuK)

163 Posted by: pat at February 24, 2013 04:49 PM (L1Yma)

Ultrawood

Is that the model of the rifle, or what he got when he opened the box?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 24, 2013 12:52 PM (GsoHv)

164

155 That was my reasoning. Just defending the operation of free markets.

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:52 PM (XDC0v)

165 161 Our reloading stores are pretty much cleaned out.

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:54 PM (XDC0v)

166 It is our right to behave like asses...we just shouldn't exercise it too frequently Sure. I could have reached into his basket to help myself too since it wasn't technically his ammo yet.

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 12:54 PM (doBIb)

167 160 I agree but that doesn't mean they wouldn't try.

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:54 PM (XDC0v)

168 OK, I'm down for disarming police. That took about 1 nanosecond of convincing.

Posted by: Whatev at February 24, 2013 12:56 PM (A7Wh1)

169 heh,heh

Seriously, on the ammo thing. This hoarding is definitely having an effect on the civilian inventory. Ammo last about 50 years so this build up has just about shit-canned regulation for a long long time. With regards to gun purchases, it is now well into the millions since November last. Ruger was 1million behind in orders in April of 2011. Sounds like a lot, but it is only about 10 guns per hardware store.

Posted by: pat at February 24, 2013 12:56 PM (L1Yma)

170 People will behave in extreme ways that we are not accustomed to during any sort of "panic".

Back in 70's when the average US driver had a quarter of a tank of gas in his/her car, all you had to do was announce a "gas shortage" and, voila. As soon as everyone filled up, then capped off every time they got to 3/4 of a tank, you had an instant gas shortage, even if there hadn't really been one. This is what we have come to with ammo.

Taken to it's logical conclusion. If there IS a real crisis, blood in the streets, and one guy on "our" side has all the ammo, with 10 others around him ready to shoot, but no ammo. What effing good is that?

May the Moron clawing begin.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 24, 2013 12:57 PM (4Mv1T)

171 168 And the AR is now officially the most common rifle in America

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:58 PM (XDC0v)

172 169 Good for barter.

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 12:59 PM (XDC0v)

173 My first Ammo Panic in 94, oddly I didn't stock up that much. The second was in 1999. I don't remember one in the early aughts but we had a good one in 2008-2009. Components took a bad hit in that one. . Ahh, that takes me back.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile[/i] at February 24, 2013 01:01 PM (e/OuK)

174 Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 04:54 PM (doBIb)

Or you could have tripped him and then been incredibly apologetic and helpful...cleaning up the mess and taking half his haul.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 24, 2013 01:02 PM (GsoHv)

175 Am still able, for now, to buy .380 and larger-bore handgun ammo. But what is very disturbing is the total wipeout of 22LR supply, and I've a feeling it's gone forever. Makes my favorite handgun a relic, inoperable and useless. So, with this universal background check thing, will it prevent me from selling a nice Beretta 20-gage over-under grouse gun to a buddy?

Posted by: The littl shyning man at February 24, 2013 01:02 PM (ndp2I)

176 As for rifle orders, the small mfg of my most recent purchase quit taking orders at the end of Jan. He's sold out a year's production.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 24, 2013 01:02 PM (4Mv1T)

177 If the US government requires citizens to register for ammo purchases, only Mexicans will have ammo.

Posted by: pat at February 24, 2013 01:03 PM (L1Yma)

178 @ 174

Nope not at all. You, him and the gun will simply be on record.

What could possibly go wrong?

Posted by: irongrampa at February 24, 2013 01:04 PM (SAMxH)

179 177 That was awesome. Hey Jordan I have to warn you someone stole your nic and is trying to make you look like an asshole

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 01:05 PM (XDC0v)

180 Or you could have tripped him and then been incredibly apologetic and helpful...cleaning up the mess and taking half his haul. You should have seen the other customers who saw him take the entire lot. They looked like they were about to gang tackle him.

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 01:06 PM (doBIb)

181 174 Inadequate preparation makes your gun a relic. It's a problem you need to fix.

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 01:06 PM (XDC0v)

182 180 Scratch a sunshine patriot and find a socialist

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 01:08 PM (XDC0v)

183 Sure. I could have reached into his basket to help myself too since it wasn't technically his ammo yet.>>

I can understand you being pissed since the guy was a dick for doing that. But if you have ever taken your kids to Disneyland you know what it's like to deal with dickheads. I may not be as in tune to this since I have no need to buy ammo currently.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 24, 2013 01:09 PM (qo244)

184 182 That's one of the problems with going to kindergarten in public schools

Posted by: DAve at February 24, 2013 01:09 PM (XDC0v)

185 Boycotts? How about boycotting Comcast. They're rejecting any progun advertising. I've already done so and made sure they understood why I was going to their competitor.

Posted by: Bill R. at February 24, 2013 01:12 PM (QnRSM)

186 I can understand you being pissed since the guy was a dick for doing that. But if you have ever taken your kids to Disneyland you know what it's like to deal with dickheads. I may not be as in tune to this since I have no need to buy ammo currently. I was happy to get 5 boxes that he graciously put back on the table because he was over limit. I shared 3 of them with my friend who came with me, who needed some.

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 01:16 PM (doBIb)

187 Boycotts? How about boycotting Comcast. They're rejecting any progun advertising. I've already done so and made sure they understood why I was going to their competitor. Posted by: Bill R. at February 24, 2013 05:12 PM (QnRSM) Yup, we cancelled on Thursday. Back to free-air!

Posted by: Steck at February 24, 2013 01:17 PM (RL7U1)

188 Random tip - don't get WD-40 anywhere near your gun.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 24, 2013 01:26 PM (celt+)

189 Random tip - before you put your gun away, wipe the metal down with a silicone-impregnated cloth. They're cheap, so buy a half-dozen or so. Skin oils are bad for metal.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 24, 2013 01:27 PM (celt+)

190 Random tip - don't get WD-40 anywhere near your gun. Another random tip - don't get libtard pols anywhere near your gun.

Posted by: EC at February 24, 2013 01:27 PM (doBIb)

191 "If ya'll wouldn't mind , please mention your favorite personal handgun... Anyway I'm asking about the hordes favorite sidearms so I'll know which guns to keep holsters in stock for . According to my limited research 1911's in full size and 4" seem to be favorites followed by mid size Glocks . I'll total up the hordes hogleg "Diversity" towards the end of the thread . Thanks in advance" Posted by: awkward davies at February 24, 2013 04:01 PM (USjX1) My favorite handgun of all I own is a cheapo commie surplus Polish Radom Tokarev. I also own an array of other surplus combloc sidearms: a Bulgarian Makarov, a P-64, a CZ-52. All great pistols but good concealable holsters have been very hard to find. I've found them, of course, but only after a great deal of searching. Seems to me a holster maker could carve out a decent niche in such pistols. The CZ-82, for example, is a huge seller according to a guy I deal with in the commie surplus handgun market. Insofar as I know, there are few holster options available.

Posted by: troyriser at February 24, 2013 01:31 PM (ptcFO)

192 Hey DaveA if you're around. Sorry....still waiting on my bucket truck, and I could not leave the immediate area...since I have to sign for the damn thing if it ever shows up.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at February 24, 2013 01:41 PM (eyJh9)

193 Random tip - don't get WD-40 anywhere near your gun. Why? I've never had any issues with it.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at February 24, 2013 01:50 PM (eyJh9)

194 I just bought my first shotgun at a gun show -- no paperwork or receipts, which is why I went there (with two VERY knowledgable gun owners and friends). My problem has been finding ammo, just for learning how to use it! I finally found some, but I was surprised. It's a 20g (12g has too much kick for where I am) and I thought that would be easier to find that 12g. Turns out I was wrong. I just stop off at different places and if they have some I buy it.

Posted by: Biblio at February 24, 2013 01:51 PM (LNe4F)

195 Oh, and since this is a gun thread, Remoil (sp?) was recommended for cleaning my Mossberg 20g shotgun. Is that best or is there something else?

Posted by: Biblio at February 24, 2013 01:51 PM (LNe4F)

196

So I'm here to close out a dead thread (as usual) and we're still talking about ammo-buying ethics during panic shortages? No criticism of any involved, just sayin'.

And DAve, per your comment about scratch/find a socialist, you may notice on gun forums (CalGuns I just read the practical threads, so not sure, but on THR it's pretty amazing) how widespread are the twin evils of economic illiteracy and envy. It's a non-stop, depressing festival of "gouging!" and "how can they charge that?" and other adolescent-level grousing that unfortunately typifies the national condition. This sort of "thinking" is exactly what's eating away the country's substance - the combo of envy and illiteracy, empowered by lack of self-respect - are not limited to the "free s**t army". Oh no. It's a disease rampant in all segments of society.

The authoritarian instinct and practical stupidity of "why do you need a gun with a 15-round magazine?" are EXACTLY the same as those that lead to enviro-fascism and every bit of nanny-state liberty-destruction that have greatly degraded the society.

Happened to be on the road in CA/NV this past week, through many small towns and markets, and the wife tolerated me checking a few gun shops (for primers, actually just one kind, Federal small pistol). Not much to be found, even in these out-of-the-way shops. One place in Reno had Federal small pistol mag primers - $70/1,000. Uh, no thanks. I only need that particular kind for one load I do for one revolver (CCI/others sometimes fail to fire), and I still have 500.

Dunno about others, but the whole gun-grabbing frenzy is infuriating and alienating in a fundamental way, as it embodies all the elements of national degradation. Ignorance, authoritarian instincts, constitutional illiteracy, a staggering level of practical stupidity (nothing being done or proposed will have any possible effect on the already extremely rare mass killing). I have no desire - none - to share a country or civic culture with anyone exhibiting these incredible and repugnant characteristics. Yet they surround us. As I have begun to ask as a standard response, in what substantive, historically meaningful sense are these people Americans?

Posted by: non-purist at February 24, 2013 02:00 PM (afQnV)

197 "Random tip - don't get WD-40 anywhere near your gun.

Why? I've never had any issues with it."

---------------

First, it's not a lubricant. It's a water displacer. Second, it's hard on bluing.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 24, 2013 02:03 PM (celt+)

198 Remington oil is considered premier. There are a number of others that you can find at specialty dealers, especially on line, like Midway ammo. The 20G is the second most popular gauge and ammo should be on the floor at any large sporting goods store such as Sports Authority, Gander Mountain, Cabellas etc. #4 shot for home defense, 6 for pheasant/rabbit, 7 for quail/dove.

Posted by: pat at February 24, 2013 02:03 PM (L1Yma)

199 198 - Pat. Thanks for the info! The only gauges I can find are 2 and 6, and 4 is what I'd been recommended (2 3/4" slug) but cannot find anywhere. Felt lucky to find 6 at Walmart of all places, and 2 at Gander Mountain (which was PACKED). I figure I can use the 2 & 6 to practice at least, especially when I'm taking lessons, until I can find some source of 4. Is that a fair assumption?

Posted by: Biblio at February 24, 2013 02:06 PM (LNe4F)

200 Is that the original furniture on the Gun-O-Week? It looks odd w/that plastic pistol grip. It also looks like a shit eating blast to fire...

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at February 24, 2013 02:06 PM (M0O7A)

201

Sticky Wicket, I think the thing with WD-40 is that is not really made to be either a cleaner or a lubricant. I believe the name stands for "water displacement, formula 40" (you'd think I'd know for sure - the stuff was invented about 1/2 mile from my junior high school). It's for displacing water/drying out machinery.

There are many, many, many excellent lubes, and cleaner/lubes, on the market, in many dispensers and forms. So while WD-40 may not appear to cause any problem (esp. if you're in a dry climate, and generally keep you guns clean), it is vastly inferior to products designed to clean/lubricate.

Taro Tsuji's random tips are all excellent. Use a good cleaner/lubricant (CLP or several similar ones), wipe down metal parts with a light oil, and/or wipe off all metal parts with one those silicon cloths after handling/before placing in safe/shoe-box/hidy hole/whatever.

Posted by: non-purist at February 24, 2013 02:07 PM (afQnV)

202
You want a good lube, try silicone spray. It's dry, slicks up an action just fine and has the added attraction of not picking up all kinds of dirt.

No problems with cold or heat, either.

Posted by: irongrampa at February 24, 2013 02:07 PM (SAMxH)

203 "The only gauges I can find are 2 and 6, and 4 is what I'd been recommended"

---------------------

Careful with your terminology. You have a 20-gauge. That's fixed. The different types of 20-gauge ammo are "loads".

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 24, 2013 02:08 PM (celt+)

204 First, it's not a lubricant. It's a water displacer. Second, it's hard on bluing.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 24, 2013 06:03 PM (celt+)

Weren't some barrel failures attributed to the use of WD40?

Posted by: Ammo Dump at February 24, 2013 02:08 PM (YYyqq)

205 Other than a 1911 my most frequent carry is a Browning Hi Power. It's hard to find leather hosters for it now but I have an old Bianchi #2 that will last as long as I do. You could probably sell copies of the #2 in both 1911 lengths, too.

Posted by: SurferDoc at February 24, 2013 02:11 PM (6H6FZ)

206 A note about "gauge" measurement in shotguns - unlike rifles and pistols, which use "caliber" measurement based on bore size (in fractions of an inch, like .45 ACP, or millimeters, like 9mm Luger), shotguns use "gauge." It's an archaic measurement based on how many lead balls of the shotgun's bore diameter would equal 1 pound of lead. So, a 12 gauge has a .729" bore, twelve lead balls of that size equaling one pound of lead. A 20 gauge has a .619" bore, a pound of lead yielding 20 balls of that caliber, etc.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 24, 2013 02:17 PM (celt+)

207 First, it's not a lubricant. It's a water displacer. Second, it's hard on bluing. I've never had a problem with it...on bluing, or moving parts. Lube lightly with a clean saturated cloth, and a wet swab down the barrel. WD-40 does tend to dry out quickly, and is not suitable for storing a weapon for more than about a month. But I've never experienced a problem with the compound on blued, or anodized surfaces.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at February 24, 2013 02:18 PM (eyJh9)

208 Biblio at February 24, 2013 06:06 PM (LNe4F)

Well #2 shot in 2 3/4 is a very deadly shot. So is BB. People like #4 because it does not travel, so you have less chance of killing an innocent. Doctors hate it because a body shot is almost impossible to treat. Too many deep holes.Perp almost always dies. You can pickup more shot numbers by moving up to a 3"BB. Slugs are a different story. Your gun likely has a choke, so you may need a sabot round, ie one encased in plastic to minimize deformation and pickup a spin. They also make specialty rounds that combine a slug with some buck. These are very popular in .410. There is a lot of good police buck coming out of Italy. And these come in 25 and 20 round boxes.

Posted by: pat at February 24, 2013 02:21 PM (L1Yma)

209 "I've never had a problem with it...on bluing, or moving parts. Lube lightly with a clean saturated cloth, and a wet swab down the barrel. WD-40 does tend to dry out quickly, and is not suitable for storing a weapon for more than about a month. But I've never experienced a problem with the compound on blued, or anodized surfaces."

--------------

So many products specifically engineered for use on firearms as cleaners and lubricants, why use something not designed for either purpose?

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 24, 2013 02:22 PM (celt+)

210 Just a thought. Many of these gun companies may be looking at their future bottom line. If they are restricted to selling to PDs and not civilians it could cut into their profits in the long run. Smart thinking, or so I think

Posted by: Thorisin at February 24, 2013 02:31 PM (jxir/)

211 A number of years ago, my uncle sold me all his (old, but good) reloading equipment for rummage-sale prices. Then when the price of metal started going out of sight around 2000, I figured I would beat future price inflation and lay in a stock so I wouldn't have to buy in a few years at even higher prices. I got a couple of deals from the CMP on cases of .22 rimfire, and bought components on sale when I had the money.

For once, I did something right. I'm sitting in the catbird seat now. I'll never have to buy ammo again in my forseeable lifetime. 15K rounds of .22, and enough components/cases for .38 SPL, 9mm, .30-06 and 12 gauge that I can shoot as much as I want and never run out.

Damn, I wish I had this kind of luck with stocks.

Posted by: The Neon Madman at February 24, 2013 02:35 PM (I6pyj)

212 Thorisin at February 24, 2013 06:31 PM (jxir/)

long run? Every firearm company in the world with the exception of the few military contractees and some specialty firms in Italy and Britain makes virtually all of their profits off the American public market.

Posted by: pat at February 24, 2013 02:37 PM (L1Yma)

213

Anyone recall how long it took the ammo supplies to come back to normal in previous "Panics"?

CCI was manufacturing 4 million rounds of .22LR a day in its Idaho plant (2011 youtube video). Just one company. Trouble is, people buy that in bulk 500 or 1000 rounds in normal times. Now they buy more. .

Economics 101 holds: prices rise, buying slows, production picks up. The supply will come back.

Posted by: Die Trying at February 24, 2013 03:02 PM (w7J/R)

214

Good for you, Neon Madman. I'm better off than some, but nowhere near your situation. Plenty for 9/38/45/30C for a while, but just started to build up for 30-06 (Garand) when the panic hit. Will get some more of that sweet HXP from the CMP, and keep my eyes open for dies, and I expect 4895 will become available again at some point. Besides, I haven't been shooting the M1 that much compared to the others.

Expect nothing to really happen on the federal level. On the state level, hoping for some dramatic court reversals for the idiots (sorry, can't use any other word, and yes, this includes probably half the country including people we know), similar to that just handed down by the 7th Circuit. But I really have very little faith in the judicial branch (this predates the absurd Obamacare debacle) - really there are no institutions left that are serious and responsible. Hope to be wrong, and there are at least a few more shoes to drop from Heller and McDonald, and especially that a basis is found to erase state efforts to limit inter-state commerce (i.e. ammo and component sales), or perhaps the tax/regulatory infringements on 2A rights will be dismantled in detail (believe basis for such already exists in case law).

Posted by: non-purist at February 24, 2013 03:09 PM (afQnV)

215 So many products specifically engineered for use on firearms as cleaners and lubricants, why use something not designed for either purpose? For me, it works.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at February 24, 2013 03:19 PM (eyJh9)

216

Die Trying, vague memory tells me that the '09 panic had ammo in short supply (at least in shops) until at least late 2010. Select online sources had decent stocks and even decent prices before that. This time is worse, it would seem.

I believe a significant part of the '09 panic was general anxiety, not just (reasonable) reaction to the WH being occupied by a radical and fairly alien new president and the completion of the Dem Party's descent into insanity. The '08 financial crisis in particular was a factor. This time, we have the spectacle of irrational and unconstitutional anti-gun hysteria, on top of the (still jaw-dropping) re-election of a spectacularly failed, scandal-ridden, and ridiculous radical and alien president. I know that the last two national election cycles completely removed any sense of familiarity, confidence, or respect I have had for our country or its electorate (nearly 3 decades in the Beltway and "in the system" as my background). Anything is possible, law or common sense or tradition are irrelevant, it's just one big roving NPR-dumb mob lurching from disaster to disaster.

So I'd think this time it will be worse, and take longer, for retail ammo in popular calibers to return to anything like normal.

Posted by: non-purist at February 24, 2013 03:20 PM (afQnV)

217 So the gun thread is an evening thing now? I found an interesting video yesterday. It's about the 1858 Remington cap & ball revolver: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK6Qr7qmSvY

Posted by: rickl at February 24, 2013 03:30 PM (sdi6R)

218 The person at Armalite who first answered the letter was a retired cop. The person he escalated the complaint to was also a retired cop.

Armalite is about to get a hard hard lesson on who damned near all of their customers are.

Posted by: Kristophr at February 24, 2013 03:35 PM (wYVte)

219 "I found an interesting video yesterday. It's about the 1858 Remington cap & ball revolver:"

---------------

I currently have two at a gunsmith for action work. Looking forward to putting a few cylinders worth through them when I get them back.

(The repros tend to not have the parts fitted well - best to have someone smooth the mating surfaces so the parts don't chew each other up.)

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 24, 2013 03:53 PM (celt+)

220 I'd love a cap and ball revolver. Shit....it used to be you could buy the complete kits in blister packs at the store. There were no restrictions on the sale of those kits....somehow, I suspect that's no longer the case.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at February 24, 2013 03:59 PM (eyJh9)

221 There still aren't any restrictions unless you live in a blue state.

Kits are hard to come by these days, but you can mail order a finished cap and ball revolver.

Posted by: Kristophr at February 24, 2013 04:10 PM (wYVte)

222 220 - in most states, you can order a cap-and-ball pistol and have it delivered right to your door. By the definition in federal law, it's not a firearm.

I believe the kits are still available as well, but all the supplies can usually be ordered from the same place that sells the guns. MidwayUSA, for one.

The powder is best sourced locally, as there tends to be extra hazmat shipping costs.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 24, 2013 04:11 PM (celt+)

223 Speaking of cap and ball revolvers, they're a perfect illustration of the silliness of most gun law and gun lore.

According to the feds, they're not firearms. So, if we got all "real" guns off the streets, there would be no gun deaths.

And according to many gun enthusiasts (including a few here), shooting an attacker with a .38 will just annoy him.

Which is why all of Wild Bill Hickok's victims have risen from the grave, having recently been informed they were shot by a pair of .36 caliber non-firearms.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 24, 2013 04:19 PM (celt+)

224 OK , sounds like the count is : 1911 =4 Browning hi power =2 Glock = 2 Ruger wheelgun = 1 HP= 1 M9= 1 Commie autos assorted = 1 Luckily I have access to a Hi Power for molding purposes . Some of the others , I may have to buy blue guns or depend on the kindness of strangers when it comes to molding the holsters . Thanks for the help folks ! Andy ,if you check back , I replied to your SAA question with another question above . Didn't want you to think I just blew you off .

Posted by: awkward davies at February 24, 2013 04:47 PM (USjX1)

225 Add another to the 1911 count, followed by Glock 23.

Posted by: LittleMs.Inopulent at February 24, 2013 04:53 PM (qH52N)

226 Thanks , little Ms. Inopulent .

Posted by: awkward davies at February 24, 2013 04:54 PM (USjX1)

227 That's a shame about Armalite. I had* an Armalite AR-15 that I bought in 2008 that I really liked. What about Kimber? They are based in NY last I heard, but I haven't heard anything about them threatening to move, or refusing to sell to law enforcement. *Before the boating accident.

Posted by: rickl at February 24, 2013 05:01 PM (sdi6R)

228 @55 Definitely design some holsters for women. Right now the Flashbang is the only one I can use that doesn't imprint. I'm only 5 ft. tall and my 1911 commander is too big and heavy to carry practically. I had to downsize to a Kahr CM9. I don't like shooting it as well but its light and I can actually carry it concealed comfortably. I shot an AR today for the first time. Managed to hit a fist sized "exploding" target at 100 yards in 24 rounds. Came really close the rest using iron sights, no scope. LOVED it. It was heavy but no kick. MUCH easier to shoot than a shotgun despite what Biden claims.

Posted by: LindaFell at February 24, 2013 05:08 PM (PGO8C)

229 Thanks , LindaFell ... Do you have any ideas , preferences for female concealed carry ? Both in handguns and method of carry . I've always thought that those purse holsters were the thing for women , seein' as how they most always have some kind of handbag . I wish guys could carry handbags . I could tote my full size 1911 and 100 rds. in a lot of ladies bags .

Posted by: awkward davies at February 24, 2013 05:59 PM (USjX1)

230 Awkward Davies, I know you can carry a lot in a purse but the ones that are out there designed for carrying concealed are fugly as hell. It would be easier to just design a holster that could be clipped somewhere inside of any purse securely. Maybe a holster that has several options to be clipped/ attached inside a purse. I still prefer a way to carry on person and so far the Flashbang is the only thing that works for me where I don't have to dress like a guy. Imprinting is a big issue for short women carrying concealed.

Posted by: LindaFell at February 24, 2013 06:44 PM (PGO8C)

231 And according to many gun enthusiasts (including a few here), shooting an attacker with a .38 will just annoy him. Which is why all of Wild Bill Hickok's victims have risen from the grave, having recently been informed they were shot by a pair of .36 caliber non-firearms. Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 24, 2013 08:19 PM (celt+) I own a Pietta reproduction 1861 Navy Colt .36 caliber cap-and-ball revolver, and it happens to be one of the best handling and most accurate handguns I own. I've conducted impromptu penetration tests with it using various loads, and consider it a very effective caliber. I don't know of any knowledgeable gun experts who claim the .38 (or its Civil War-era .36 cap-and-ball equivalent) is ineffective. The argument many make is that 'bigger is better', and it usually is, frankly. Generally, the smaller the caliber, the more important placement becomes. The goal is immediate incapacitation of the threat. One is more likely to achieve this goal with a bigger bullet. Wild Bill Hickok once shot a man (Dave Tut) in the heart at approximately 75 yards using his 1851 Colt. In an exhibition, Hickok also once used two revolvers, one in each hand, to shoot bulls-eyes in two Ace playing cards simultaneously, both tacked to fence posts right-and-left at 25 yards. Placement was never a problem with Wild Bill Hickok.

Posted by: troyriser at February 24, 2013 06:45 PM (ptcFO)

232 By the way, Wild Bill Hickok didn't have 'victims'. Insofar as I know, he only engaged in gunfights with armed opponents. There's a qualitative moral difference between armed opponents and victims.

Posted by: troyriser at February 24, 2013 06:49 PM (ptcFO)

233 Thanks again Linda Fell . I'll think on it . Hickok was a dead shot , by all accounts, but perhaps he should have paid more attention to his gambling habit . Unsavory people those card players . With that , I'm out . Raises glass to the horde . Toasts, " Confusion to the enemy " .

Posted by: awkward davies at February 24, 2013 06:55 PM (USjX1)

234 Hey guys, Classic had 1000, M-38 mosins in, and sold out in 2 days. I got my order in though.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at February 24, 2013 07:06 PM (cCxiu)

235 Hey guys, Classic had 1000, M-38 mosins in, and sold out in 2 days. I got my order in though. Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at February 24, 2013 11:06 PM (cCxiu) I own a Mosin-Nagant M44 carbine, nearly identical to the M38 except for the side-folding bayonet. Love that rifle. The fireballs are cool incarnate.

Posted by: troyriser at February 24, 2013 07:42 PM (ptcFO)

236 Ug. I missed the gun of the week for the first time. I thought it was the late WW2 German assault rifle (SG44 or whatever it was called).

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at February 24, 2013 09:02 PM (nYENA)

237 @236, troyriser, I have 2 m-44's and 2 -T-53's (Chinese M-44). I love the fireballs too. When I shoot those things (kabooom) at the range, them AR fellers always move away from me (or go home) and holler, what the heck is that thing? I felt the pressure wave in my chest! It made ripples in my cup of coffee.