March 03, 2013

Gun Thread (3-3-2013)
— andy

Everything Must Go

Ammo has been damned near impossible to find, but we've discussed that here before.

Yesterday I was looking for some 30-round AR magazine springs (figuring that'd be the hardest part to make from scratch if you went metal shop or 3D-printer for the rest). Sold. Out. ... at least at Brownell's and a couple of other places. Wolff looked like they had some, but at $5.00 a print for 10, that's enough to make me start pricing rolls of spring steel.

Let me know if you're seeing better supplies of guns & ammo in your area in the comments.

Related: ItÂ’s George Soros Fault We Have So Little Ammo! Not.


Gun Of The Week

(answer below)

Marksmanship Award



Gun Of The Week - Answer

Top: Benelli M1 non-assault shotgun. Bottom: Benelli M1 assault shotgun.

Definition source: Diane Feinstein.


Wingshooting Help

Via a good friend of mine from back home in Georgia (who owns and operates a hunting lodge there if you're in the market), this tracking wad from Winchester should be a big help if your wingshooting skills need improvement.


NSSF On 3D Printing

Short version: STFU, gun grabbers.

Anti-gun activists have trotted out plenty of scare tactics over the past few months. One of these manufactured crises relates to the use of what has been termed “3D printing” technology to produce firearms. Despite the heated rhetoric, the fact remains that this technology, in itself, does not present a public safety problem.

Its high cost, limited effectiveness, and the need for highly-skilled experts to use this technology mean that criminals are not using – and will likely never use – 3D printing to produce firearms.


Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Posted by: andy at 11:45 AM | Comments (270)
Post contains 368 words, total size 4 kb.

1 Bang!

Posted by: ALH at March 03, 2013 11:46 AM (eqV3Q)

2 Criminals would never employ experts to make them untraceable guns. Totally.

Posted by: Truman North at March 03, 2013 11:47 AM (qPdwz)

3 Really? First?


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 11:47 AM (bb5+k)

4 3D printing uses paper.  Who believes you can make guns from paper.  Only stupid liberals would believe that.

Posted by: Vic at March 03, 2013 11:47 AM (53z96)

5 Also: 3D printers keep these guns out of the hands of poor people, therefore they are somehow better.

Posted by: Truman North at March 03, 2013 11:47 AM (I2LwF)

6 Damn! Lucy moved the football again!


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 11:47 AM (bb5+k)

7 I shot FIRST! And I'll ask questions later! HaHaHaHaHa!

Posted by: ALH at March 03, 2013 11:47 AM (eqV3Q)

8 Sorry Andy, I'm the guy who bought all the springs back in december. And Magpul polymer followers too.

Posted by: Rule #2 at March 03, 2013 11:48 AM (CypDC)

9 Soros is the first one mentioned in any conspiracy theory thanks to Glenn Beck.

Posted by: Gerald Gashgrinder at March 03, 2013 11:49 AM (mopd5)

10 Criminals would never employ experts to make them untraceable guns.

Totally.

Posted by: Truman North at March 03, 2013 03:47 PM (qPdwz)


Did you see those drug smuggling submarines they were building down south?  The one they captured was quite sophisticated.  It was obviously designed and built by experts in submarine engineering. 


Speaking of criminals building weapons, I hear the ayatolla assaholas are building nuke missiles.  Nothing to worry about there, eh?



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 11:49 AM (bb5+k)

11 OMG! A pistol grip!

Posted by: forest at March 03, 2013 11:49 AM (L7wZc)

12 Please, sir. May I have some hollowpoint?

Posted by: barely-clothed sequestration waif at March 03, 2013 11:50 AM (ORGYc)

13 The Walmart here is out of ammo as well.  The guy told my wife they get case a day in shipment but all are gone within 2 hours.

Posted by: Vic at March 03, 2013 11:51 AM (53z96)

14 That last 3D printing quotes smacks of "there's no reason for anyone to have a computer at home" or "no one needs more than 640k of memory." On the topic of 3D printing, I seriously want to kick one of the people involved in the goolies. Some jackass is now calling their 3D printer a "4D printer" because it partly assembles things instead of just printing parts. The term "dimension" is so fucking abused, I think maybe it's time to get rid of it. Because of a couple of dumbasses, nobody has any idea what a simple and useful word means, and every discussion of the issue gets derailed by claims that "the fourth dimension is time," which makes about as much sense as calling a cuckoo clock an airplane because it has wheels. /trying to stop ranting now

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile[/i] at March 03, 2013 11:51 AM (bxiXv)

15 If I were in a position to have to bring a gun on board a plane, this would be the kind of tech I would be very interested in.

Posted by: Truman North at March 03, 2013 11:51 AM (I2LwF)

16 Is there ANYTHING that Johnny Boehner won't do for Barack Obama?

I suspect that the House leader has determined (wrongly in my view) that Newt Gingrich went wrong in his leadership and so was sent into political exile for years.

Too bad that the opposite actions now will result in the same thing or worse.

I suspect that Mr. Boehner's actions will actually send the Republican party into OBLIVION due to the apparent lack of any reason for anyone to send anymore to DC as they don't represent us and are becoming a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democrats.

Way to go John, way to go.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 11:51 AM (qyv02)

17 You know how they say we are always fighting the next war with last war's technology?


I think that is happening with the run on guns and ammo.  


Never bring a gun to a hellfire missile fight.


I've got some ideas if anyone is interested.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 11:52 AM (bb5+k)

18 Day Three. Peering out window blinds. Power and water still mysteriously on in house. Saw smoke in distance, looked like zombie massacre and firestorm, but turned out to be neighbor grilling spare ribs. Plans for 3-D printed gun in buffer, but worried it might discharge while printing. Feel helpless. Ate last Twinkie.

Posted by: Suffering under sequester at March 03, 2013 11:53 AM (Lxw+T)

19 Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile at March 03, 2013 03:51 PM (bxiXv)

It's making things in space AND time!!!!!!!

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 11:53 AM (qyv02)

20 Mellow out--this is the Age of Aquarius, Merovign.

Posted by: the fifth dimension at March 03, 2013 11:53 AM (ORGYc)

21 10. That is as it should be. Soros has had his fingers in more different spots than a retired gynecologist.

Posted by: Meddler at March 03, 2013 11:53 AM (ZvqUt)

22 criminals are not using – and will likely never use – 3D printing to produce firearms.

criminals no, but the general public ... I wouldn't be so sure. The possibilities for this technology will lead to investment and invention. In 10 years everyone will have their own 3d printer.

Posted by: Rule #2 at March 03, 2013 11:54 AM (CypDC)

23 Day Three of the Sequester. My sleep is troubled, such sleep that I can get while trying to stand guard over the house. The marauding gangs are growing more bold as the foraging goes poorly. My dreams are haunted by this new reality as I try to grow accustomed to living in a land where the Assistant Deputy Administrative Assistant to the Second Deputy Undersecretary of Diversity overseeing the Treasury Department Interior Decorating Program must take 14 unpaid days over the next year. The thin veneer of civilization is crumbling, and underneath we are no better than a place like Tajikistan. Thomas Jefferson would be so ashamed of us. Do we really want to continue living in a land that treats government employment the same as those unfortunates condemned to slave away in the private sector? Still, for my family, I must press on.

Posted by: Todd W at March 03, 2013 11:55 AM (lrkg9)

24 I stopped in at a small local gun shop this week and they had a few AR 15s with the basics at about $1900.00 a pop

Posted by: Albie Damned at March 03, 2013 11:55 AM (Yhu4q)

25 every discussion of the issue gets derailed by claims that "the fourth dimension is time,"

Well, if you're looking to define space + 'something' to be a 4d manifold, time is a reasonable next coordinate to use. No need to discriminate just because you happen to be stuck following it one way.

Posted by: The Doctor at March 03, 2013 11:55 AM (hO9ad)

26 In five years it will be illegal to buy spools of ABS filament without a federal license, an excise tax and an anal exam.

Posted by: Ali Velshi's Dentist at March 03, 2013 11:56 AM (Lxw+T)

27 The question is not whether time bends but whether there is time at all.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 11:57 AM (qyv02)

28 Never bring a gun to a hellfire missile fight.

A)If you're planning for a total breakdown in civil order, force on force is probably not the way it get's sorted out.

B)If you have a way to privately build remote controlled aerial missile boats, you probably shouldn't tell people over the internet.

Posted by: Methos at March 03, 2013 11:58 AM (hO9ad)

29 so, with a three-d printer I can counterfeit quarters as well as dollar bills?

Posted by: mallfly at March 03, 2013 11:59 AM (bJm7W)

30 Well, if you're looking to define space + 'something' to be a 4d manifold, time is a reasonable next coordinate to use. No need to discriminate just because you happen to be stuck following it one way. Posted by: The Doctor at March 03, 2013 03:55 PM (hO9ad) So the fourth item in a list of ten items (arbitrary limit) that distinguishes those items is a quality all of them have in common. It's like saying "edible" is a food that is different from all other foods. Seriously, I think people's brains are crippled by accepting nonsensical ideas. Some people might be able to think of examples we talk about here all the time.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile[/i] at March 03, 2013 11:59 AM (bxiXv)

31 If you know how to shoot, do you ever forget? Is it like riding a bicycle? My father taught me to shoot when I was in the 8th grade, shot his 12ga; didn't mind shooting it, but the barrel was too long for a little scrawny kid. The little 20ga single shot was just my size. At the university pistol range it was 22 caliber, just for fun.

Then there was basic training and off I went to be a REMF. Haven't shot anything since. So if I go after some sporting clays fifty years later, am I going to look like a klutz? Wouldn't want to be an embarrassment to my friends, you see.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 03, 2013 11:59 AM (G5abw)

32 Should I cut off his nuts, Doctor?

Posted by: Leela at March 03, 2013 11:59 AM (ORGYc)

33 You guys just don't know where to find ammo. Do I have to show you guys everything? Just ordered 5 more crates (4400 rounds) of 7.62 x 54 r. Before you go saying that's only for ole Mosin bolt actions, I also have a semi auto vepr with 10 round mags it fits. Just ordered another box of 480 gP-11 that fits the K-31's. Lots of around. Also have a crate of 1120 7.62 x 25's on the water for the PPS-43 and all the Toks. Its there , but much pricer (Geez, almost 36 cents a round) . I bought the previous 3200 for 9 cents a round. (still have most of it too). If you guys are crying about ammo, it means you were short sighted, trusted the gummit and didn't do your job. Yep I'm down on .22's also, I only have about a thousand left.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 12:00 PM (cCxiu)

34 In the past two weeks, I've been able to amass 1,100 rounds of ammo from various manufacturers at several different stores in the San Antonio, Texas area. .22lr, .45 ACP, .40 S&W, .22 WMR are the calibers I've been looking for and have found. Most shotgun ammo is plentiful in these parts. Stuff like .223/5.56 has been hard to come by. 7.62x39 has been spotty, though more plentiful the past few weeks. Wal - Mart, Academy have both had Tul-Ammo in the above caliber, though it doesn't last long on the shelf. Almost every Wal-mart i go too has little to no pistol ammo in stock. academy is spotty, depending on what you're looking for but they have had stuff ranging from .38 special, .380 auto and a few other calibers like .45 LC. MOST 'normal' pistol ammo - .45 ACP, 9mm, .357 mag, .44 mag, .40 S&W is hard to find at the box stores. Most of the gun stores in the area have had supplies of all the above various calibers in varying levels. All the stores have imposed box per customer, per day limits to keep what inventory they are getting in on the shelves a bit longer. I also peruse the below link http://www.persecusa.com/html/ref/ammo.htm Weekly checking online sources.

Posted by: Catmman at March 03, 2013 12:00 PM (C8XlI)

35 You know how they say we are always fighting the next war with last war's technology? I think that is happening with the run on guns and ammo. Never bring a gun to a hellfire missile fight. I've got some ideas if anyone is interested. Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 03:52 PM (bb5+k) A shooting war/civil war like Astan or Iraq isn't likely here in the US. I'm thinking it'd be more like the myth of clandestine urban spy warfare between the West and the KGB in the 50s and 60s. A LOT harder to set up Hellfire targets in that kind of war.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 03, 2013 12:01 PM (MBqvE)

36 32 If you know how to shoot, do you ever forget? Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 03, 2013 03:59 PM (G5abw) There are a lot of factors, but you should get some practice / take a lesson. Motor skills weaken over time, especially if you don't think about them. It won't be like you never fired a gun, and you'll "get back into shape" faster than you learned the first time, but still...

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile[/i] at March 03, 2013 12:03 PM (bxiXv)

37 Day Three, addendum. Saw battle vehicle drive past house, disguised as Buick Regal. The warlords are camouflaged as elderly white couples. All so unfair. All that separated us from barbarism was less than two percent of federal spending. It is obvious in hindsight. Double checked ammo cache. Still have super soaker and vintage cap gun from Hasbro, but paper cap supply low.

Posted by: Suffering under sequester at March 03, 2013 12:03 PM (Lxw+T)

38 Should I cut off his nuts, Doctor?

Posted by: Leela at March 03, 2013 03:59 PM (ORGYc)

Nah, that's what K9 is for.

Posted by: The Doctor at March 03, 2013 12:03 PM (hO9ad)

39 30 so, with a three-d printer I can counterfeit quarters as well as dollar bills? If you're Ben Bernanke all you need is a computer.

Posted by: Suffering under sequester at March 03, 2013 12:04 PM (Lxw+T)

40 "A)If you're planning for a total breakdown in civil order, force on force is probably not the way it get's sorted out."


My current working theory is more along the lines of Nazi-Skynet takes over the country. 




"B)If you have a way to privately build remote controlled aerial missile boats, you probably shouldn't tell people over the internet."

Posted by: Methos at March 03, 2013 03:58 PM (hO9ad)



Not practical unless you are a billionaire.  What good is one or even a handful  of tech which matches your opposition?  No, you have to be David to the Goliath, the British Light Ships to the Spanish Armada, the "Bonhomme Richard" to the Seraphis.


Else you'll end up like Davy Crockett to Santa Anna.  



À bon chat, bon rat.








Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 12:04 PM (bb5+k)

41 Taro's Trivia. Ever wonder why a .38 Special can be shot in a .357 Magnum? Short answer: caliber designations don't always make sense.

Long answer: Back in the Dawn of Time, Sam Colt designed the 1851 Navy revolver, the first practical holster pistol. Nominally it was .36 caliber, but the bore was actually .375 (let's round it up to .3 . It was a cap and ball pistol, meaning you poured the powder in the cylinder chambers, rammed a lead ball on top of each one, then put a percussion cap on the rear of each chamber to fire. When metallic cartridges were devised in the 1860s, there were thousands of these pistols in circulation. It was a simple matter to convert these for metallic cartridges by boring the cylinders straight through. Colt devised the .38 Colt cartridge for this purpose. It used a heeled bullet, meaning the bullet was rebated at the rear to seat in the cartridge case, and the rest of the bullet was the same diameter as the case (for various reasons this was less than optimal, which is why only .22 rimfires use it today). Later the cartridge was improved for use in new pistols by lengthening the case and doing away with the heeled bullet, leaving the bullet with a diameter of .357 and boring the barrels of new-made pistols to fit. Colt called this cartridge the .38 Long Colt (redesignating the original cartridge .38 Short Colt). Why not call it a .36 Long Colt? Well, probably because people would rather have a .38 than a .36. Bigger is better, right? Marketing.

Later, Smith and Wesson would improve upon this cartridge by lengthening it again and calling it the .38 Special. In the 1930s, they lengthened it yet again into the .357 Magnum, finally giving it an accurate caliber designation. They did so to further differentiate it from the .38 Special to discourage people from trying to fire the powerful round in .38 revolvers with 'splodey consequences. Besides, .357 sounds bigger than .38, and "Magnum" sounds bigger still.

So, to sum up: a cap and ball .36 is really a .38 (.375), and a .38 Special is really a .36 (.357). And that's why you can fire a .38 Special in a .357 Magnum.

Next week: Dirty Harry's .43 Magnum!



Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at March 03, 2013 12:05 PM (celt+)

42

RE: Ammo

The indoor range I use puts a limit of 2 boxes on anything bigger than .22 except shotgun.  But that's to ensure they have it for the members.  At the local mom and pop store closer to home (Snohomish County, WA), supplies seem to be adequate, and the prices aren't insane, but they are up about 25% over last year.  Even .223 seems to be available, though I only use 9mm.  Picked up 8 boxes last week and there was plenty more.

Posted by: Born Free at March 03, 2013 12:05 PM (jnJcf)

43
   But black powder supplies are plentiful (here, anyhow) so my charcoal burners are happy.

   .22lr is a bit spotty, 7.62 is available--don't know about .223, don't use it.   .45acp is also good, ALL of it is much more expensive than ever before.

    This was from a quick cruise through several outlets.

Posted by: irongrampa at March 03, 2013 12:05 PM (SAMxH)

44 Saw battle vehicle drive past house, disguised as Buick Regal. The warlords are camouflaged as elderly white couples.

Stand down, that was my dad!!!! 

Posted by: Peaches at March 03, 2013 12:05 PM (3fX4B)

45 Very well, Doctor.
And crossbows rule!

Posted by: Leela at March 03, 2013 12:06 PM (ORGYc)

46 PEACHES!! Said hi on the last thread!!! How the heck are you!!!!!!???!!

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp also hates snow at March 03, 2013 12:07 PM (DGIjM)

47 So how much toner do those things go through? Can I just use the black and white cartridge? What happens if the paper jams, is that more dangerous?

Posted by: Victim of government education at March 03, 2013 12:07 PM (CypDC)

48

NRA Life Memberships are currently $300.00 until 4/16/13. (Normally $1,000)

http://tinyurl.com/d6u5tx8

Includes a free duffel bag, flashlight and NRA magazine of your choice.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 03, 2013 12:07 PM (kdS6q)

49
A shooting war/civil war like Astan or Iraq isn't likely here in the US. I'm thinking it'd be more like the myth of clandestine urban spy warfare between the West and the KGB in the 50s and 60s. A LOT harder to set up Hellfire targets in that kind of war.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 03, 2013 04:01 PM (MBqvE)


What i'm getting at is this.... Any clump of people with guns gets "Hellfired" from five miles away. 


AR15 v Hellfire?   My money is on the Hellfire.




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 12:08 PM (bb5+k)

50 I've got the Benelli non-assault M2 and it's light as a feather, but it kicks like a mule if you don't secure the reins.

Posted by: Fritz at March 03, 2013 12:08 PM (WM+rJ)

51 So if I go after some sporting clays fifty years later, am I going to look like a klutz? Wouldn't want to be an embarrassment to my friends, you see. Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 03, 2013 03:59 PM (G5abw) Fuck them if they get embarrassed. Go have fun, with no regrets. And above all, be safe. True friends will rib you a bit, before working with you to improve your technique. An AoS Moron should have no problems with a little ribbing, yes?

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 03, 2013 12:09 PM (MBqvE)

52 @ 49 Damn, I just sent in 600 dollars for a lifetime NRA membership. That's OK, I saw that right after I sent it in. I got the wife a 1 year membership too. They deserve it. At least they are standing up for our rights.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 12:13 PM (cCxiu)

53 What i'm getting at is this.... Any clump of people with guns gets "Hellfired" from five miles away. AR15 v Hellfire? My money is on the Hellfire. Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 04:08 PM (bb5+k) If it gets to that point, in short order there won't be anything left at all worth looting through looking for spare change. That is dead-serious EOTW stuff. Gloves off, war of all against all, nothing left. There aren't enough Hellfires to "get" everybody, and retribution would be swift, uncoordinated, and mostly against targets of convenience who probably have nothing to do with the original conflict. Unless you have a giant secret base on Mars and a way to get there, I can't think of a way to "deal" with such a scenario. It's not that "it could never happen," it's that if it does happen we'd think fondly of the idea of living in Burma, Afghanistan, or Somalia.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile[/i] at March 03, 2013 12:13 PM (bxiXv)

54 Day Three, addendum. Swear I saw mohawked biker, wearing chaps, holding a crossbow speed past front door. Might have been a cocker spaniel. Wish I had at least a shotgun, but I don't live near the woods so there is nowhere to aim it.

Posted by: Suffering under sequester at March 03, 2013 12:13 PM (Lxw+T)

55 Shrimp, all good.  So very nice to see you!!  Had to do laundry this morning and vacuum and change the cat litter, damn that sequester . . .

Posted by: Peaches at March 03, 2013 12:13 PM (3fX4B)

56 Colorado is going to ban shotguns

http://is.gd/YsG1Pc

Posted by: Jones in CO at March 03, 2013 12:14 PM (8sCoq)

57 @ 50, just take your stand from a heavily democratic area, or a government building. That way that Hellfire can take a few enemy combatants with you. It's Friendly fire ya know.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 12:15 PM (cCxiu)

58 Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile at March 03, 2013 04:13 PM (bxiXv)

Not to mention that there is a long and precarious logistics train to support things like Hellfires.  Cut off the logistics, no Hellfires.

Posted by: Country Singer at March 03, 2013 12:15 PM (CgcOa)

59 The Sensitive Informant Program is the FBIÂ’s disturbing practice of using private citizens as spies on the staffs of members of Congress and perhaps even federal judges, in the national media, within other federal agencies, on defense teams in high profile federal and/or state criminal prosecutions, inside state and local law enforcement agencies and even among the clergy of organized religions. The Sensitive Informant Program is designed to and does result in the circumvention of the protections guaranteed to American citizens by the Bill of Rights and the Separation of Powers Doctrine.

Posted by: Kenneth Trentadue at March 03, 2013 12:16 PM (e8kgV)

60 And it's not that we have no ammo, we have SCADS of ammo... that's why there's none at the stores, we're buying it like crazy people. Well, not me, I stocked up years ago.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile[/i] at March 03, 2013 12:17 PM (bxiXv)

61
Damn, I just sent in 600 dollars for a lifetime NRA membership.
Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean




Call the NRA customer service number and mention the $300 deal. I'd think might adjust if you just bought the other membership very recently.

Worth a shot at least.



Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 03, 2013 12:17 PM (kdS6q)

62  

   Sporting clays are another great exercise in humility. I have seen some damn fine skeet shooters brought back to earth with SC's. 

   Still a tremendous amount of fun.

Posted by: irongrampa at March 03, 2013 12:18 PM (SAMxH)

63 Hah.

Ever measure shotguns shells?

I did and found some interesting anomalies.

Such as a .410? Ain't.

BTW as far as unused skills for shooting?

It's not the shooting that you need to buff up on so much as the "WEAPON SAFETY" skills that you should go over. These are far more important (at first) than getting rounds on target.

Become very familiar with all the do's and don't for the particular firearm you're using and drill with it until it's second nature.

Rules 1 thru 10 == NO weapon is unloaded. Handle it thusly.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 12:18 PM (qyv02)

64 Posted by: The Doctor at March 03, 2013 03:55 PM (hO9ad)

Geez, I lay low for a few days and random time travellers start popping up all over the place.

Posted by: John Titor at March 03, 2013 12:19 PM (xKC/c)

65 IMG
Andrew Sullivan, the author who still harbors serious doubts about the veracity of Sarah Palin's ultimate pregnancy, has determined that outgoing Pope Benedict is gay.

Posted by: Happy the Clown at March 03, 2013 12:20 PM (e8kgV)

66 Day Three, evening. Internet mysteriously still up. Found tumblr full of vaginas, or maybe it's just pictures of lunch meat. Hard to tell. Must be psychological warfare. Must go through thread again to be sure.

Posted by: Suffering under sequester at March 03, 2013 12:20 PM (Lxw+T)

67
That is dead-serious EOTW stuff. Gloves off, war of all against all, nothing left.

There aren't enough Hellfires to "get" everybody, and retribution would be swift, uncoordinated, and mostly against targets of convenience who probably have nothing to do with the original conflict.

Unless you have a giant secret base on Mars and a way to get there, I can't think of a way to "deal" with such a scenario.

It's not that "it could never happen," it's that if it does happen we'd think fondly of the idea of living in Burma, Afghanistan, or Somalia.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile at March 03, 2013 04:13 PM (bxiXv)


Maybe i'm more paranoid that most, but did you read instapundit today?  Apparently DHS has got the manufacture of predator drones to include domestic surveillance gear.  I saw this link on Instapundit.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/b4kwn94


I've been waiting with eager anticipation for the Administration's response to the question asked of them regarding the use of drones to kill American Citizens within the borders of the United States. So far..... "Crickets."

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 12:20 PM (bb5+k)

68 @62, thanks,but I think they should have the money. At least they are defending Americans rights.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 12:21 PM (cCxiu)

69 Colorado is going to ban shotguns

http://is.gd/YsG1Pc

Posted by: Jones in CO at March 03, 2013 04:14 PM (8sCoq)



G*d D@mned California liberals bringing their poison ideology into the state.  They are like roaches dragging roach proof along with them to infect the rest of their nest.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 12:23 PM (bb5+k)

70 So if I go after some sporting clays fifty years later, am I going to look like a klutz? Wouldn't want to be an embarrassment to my friends, you see.
Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 03, 2013 03:59 PM (G5abw)


What Cur said.

Even it was a bicycle, after 50 years you would be a little rusty, but all you really need to know is where the safety is. After that you can quickly get into passable form. Breathe, Relax, Aim, Sight, Squeeze. Clays, of course, are a little different, but all it takes is studied practice. Consider a 16 or 20 if you would like to get used to things a little easier..., others may disagree. At any rate, no one that matters is going to laugh at you.

Posted by: Oliver Winchester at March 03, 2013 12:25 PM (aDwsi)

71 @   68


   I skimmed the unredacted pdf about Predator drones and one item made the hair stand up on my neck--several times the term "payload capacity" came up.

  Last I knew that refers to ordnance, or did I go way wrong?

Posted by: irongrampa at March 03, 2013 12:26 PM (SAMxH)

72 That new medal for drone operators?

It's got oak leaf clusters for destruction of non uniformed militia forces.

First cluster for up to 100 militia
2nd cluster for 100 to 1000 militia
3rd cluster for nuke.

You all do know that they can carry tac nukes?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 12:27 PM (qyv02)

73 did chico and her daughter finish crying about the shortage of ammo? Ha.

Posted by: mallfly at March 03, 2013 12:27 PM (bJm7W)

74 Hey, its been a good gun week for me. The M-38 mosin and P-64 commie pistol arrived. I have another K-31 on coming. I posted this in another thread here , but this is the right forum for it. Do you want to empower women? Teach them to shoot, buy them a pistol and help them get a CHL. Case in point. My wife took her CHL (Concealed handgun license) class , written test and shooting qualification today. She passed with flying colors. She is walking around here puffed up like a bantam rooster and is very happy. I am very proud of her too. The instructor told me she got a perfect score on the shooting practical (250 points out of 250 possible on the 50 shot timed test). He said she shoots better than he does. I told him I had her shooting at a 4 inch diameter spinner (about the size of a human heart) from 15 yards (max distance on the test) and after some practice she could hit it every time, so the trials at 3 and 7 yards and hitting that 8 ring or better were a piece of cake. Heck most of her shots were in the bulls eye with a few in the 9 ring and 2 in the 8 ring. I also had her shooting 1 shot per second (twice as fast the test). She whined about it and didn't like it too much, but it sure made her a better shootist. He didn't like her 1 handed grip, but I told him "I trained her like that on purpose because next I was going to teach her how to shoot with a pistol in each hand, Texas gunslinger style (a double duelist, pistol packing mama)". He just laughed. The test is timed, you have to get off a series of 50 shots in so many seconds from 3 distances (3, 7 and 15 yards). Here is her target. 175 is the minimum passing score. They want you to shoot center of mass. That's just one example of me Empowering women....She now has a murder, mugging and rape free zone that extends 15 yards in any direction around her. She doesn't have to be beholding to, or fear any man a putting hands on or abusing her. She is woman, hear her double pistols roar! In my experience that's a lot more effective than the whistle Obama and the Democrats want to give them.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 12:27 PM (cCxiu)

75 Payload is just anything an aircraft can carry, cargo, cameras, whatever. But that does or can *include* weapons. Someone is planning for that, whether or not they can pull it off.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile[/i] at March 03, 2013 12:28 PM (bxiXv)

76 Payload capacity can mean specialized electronic equipment besides the standard operational gear.

But yes, it does.

I noted above that they can carry tac nukes. Which contrary to popular theory, can be clean enough to use in an isolated enough environment.

Say, like certain areas of "fly over country"?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 12:29 PM (qyv02)

77 Colorado is going to ban shotguns

http://is.gd/YsG1Pc


Posted by: Jones in CO at March 03, 2013 04:14 PM (8sCoq)


Wow!  Not even the blue, blue state of Connecticut bans shotguns.  You don't even need a permit for a shotgun here.

Posted by: Tami[/i] at March 03, 2013 12:30 PM (X6akg)

78 Walmart ammo stocks seem to be coming back. After not finding anything other than .410's or the odd .300ish calibers for the past 6 weeks, I was actually able to score two 500+ round boxes of 22 long rifles. Sweet.

Posted by: Wheatley at March 03, 2013 12:30 PM (TJnvb)

79 You don't even need a permit for a shotgun here.
Posted by: Tami at March 03, 2013 04:30 PM (X6akg)

Ahem

Posted by: New Connecticut Gun Control Bill Now Pending While We Figure Out How Much We Can Get Away With at March 03, 2013 12:32 PM (qyv02)

80 I found a great program to keep track of your guns, free. Follow the directions.



http://tinyurl.com/cfx7g6f

Posted by: Billy Bob, Pseudo Intellectual at March 03, 2013 12:32 PM (wR+pz)

81 @ 68


I skimmed the unredacted pdf about Predator drones and one item made the hair stand up on my neck--several times the term "payload capacity" came up.

Last I knew that refers to ordnance, or did I go way wrong?

Posted by: irongrampa at March 03, 2013 04:26 PM (SAMxH)


I posted this article on a website called "TalkPolywell" and one of the knowledgeable people there said this:


DeltaV wrote: "Ah, they kept the missile carriage hardpoints."



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 12:33 PM (bb5+k)

82 68 DiogenesLamp
I haven't read the article, only saw the headline, but I'm skeptical. Remote sensing for concealed weapons is theoretically possible, but packed into a drone? Look at how a body scanner is configured - subject inside the scanner, source and detector on opposite sides. This sounds more like dis-info to me. However, that fact that they need to rattle us with this crap is telling.

Posted by: Victim of government education at March 03, 2013 12:33 PM (CypDC)

83 What i'm getting at is this.... Any clump of people with guns gets "Hellfired" from five miles away. AR15 v Hellfire? My money is on the Hellfire. Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 04:08 PM (bb5+k) ---------------------- Do what Victor and the NVA did to us in Vietnam as a tactic. Get in their faces and grab them by the belt-buckle.

Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2013 12:34 PM (z4FGn)

84 Dammit

Posted by: Rule #2 at March 03, 2013 12:34 PM (CypDC)

85 80 You don't even need a permit for a shotgun here.
Posted by: Tami at March 03, 2013 04:30 PM (X6akg)

Ahem

Posted by: New Connecticut Gun Control Bill Now Pending While We Figure Out How Much We Can Get Away With at March 03, 2013 04:32 PM (qyv02)



Ok, ok.....You don't even need a permit for a shotgun here....for now.

Posted by: Tami[/i] at March 03, 2013 12:35 PM (X6akg)

86 Well crap. I give up. Is not even the gun thread sacred? Saggin, fraggin, fricken, frackin, razza, dazza tiny print thread.

Posted by: teej at March 03, 2013 12:35 PM (BfZ1r)

87 Teej.....you're viewing threads on a phone? 



THEY'RE ALL TINY PRINT!  IT'S A PHONE!

Posted by: Tami[/i] at March 03, 2013 12:36 PM (X6akg)

88
Do what Victor and the NVA did to us in Vietnam as a tactic. Get in their faces and grab them by the belt-buckle.

Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2013 04:34 PM (z4FGn)


You do have an idea of what the operating range of these things are?  Beyond that, you do know the operators can be on the other side of the planet?



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 12:37 PM (bb5+k)

89 Anyone been seeing more unusual ammo brands to fill the shelves? A smaller shop near me, which used to carry Federal .308 and 5.56, now only has stuff from Serbia and Brazil. Quality looks good on both.

Posted by: Rule #2 at March 03, 2013 12:38 PM (CypDC)

90 Any clump of people with guns gets "Hellfired" from five miles away.  AR15 v Hellfire? My money is on the Hellfire.

My money is on the guy with the cordless sawzall they don't notice or care about.  He'll do way more damage than the guys with guns.

While they're out snipe hunting for armed resistance, the guy with the sawzall is turning off the power/water to the city.

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 12:42 PM (/gHaE)

91 Any clump of people with guns gets "Hellfired" from five miles away.  AR15 v Hellfire? My money is on the Hellfire.

My money is on the guy with the cordless sawzall they don't notice or care about.  He'll do way more damage than the guys with guns.

While they're out snipe hunting for armed resistance, the guy with the sawzall is turning off the power/water to the city.

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 12:42 PM (/gHaE)

92 Diogenes, You do know you can down one those don't you? It requires radar (not that hard) and something in 50 cal or better. Its those little peeper ones that freak me out . I have tennis rackets for those.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 12:43 PM (cCxiu)

93 Diogenes, You do know you can down one those don't you? It requires radar (not that hard) and something in 50 cal or better. Its those little peeper ones that freak me out . I have tennis rackets for those.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 12:43 PM (cCxiu)

94 "A smaller shop near me, which used to carry Federal .308 and 5.56, now only has stuff from Serbia and Brazil. Quality looks good on both."

-----------------

Prvi Partizan is good stuff. The Serbs know how to make guns and ammo.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at March 03, 2013 12:43 PM (celt+)

95 My money is on the guy with the cordless sawzall they don't notice or care about. He'll do way more damage than the guys with guns.

While they're out snipe hunting for armed resistance, the guy with the sawzall is turning off the power/water to the city.

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 04:42 PM (/gHaE)



Roundabout way of making my same point.  The best tools for the next conflict might not be guns.  




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 12:44 PM (bb5+k)

96 Wow, I am blessed.  My son and I went over our guns.  After counting about 50, we remembered we had forgotten a closet with another 20.



Don't be coming over to my house without an invitation.

Posted by: Billy Bob, Pseudo Intellectual at March 03, 2013 12:45 PM (wR+pz)

97 Roundabout way of making my same point. The best tools for the next conflict might not be guns.

Firearms have their place.  Wonderful tool for making maintenance costs of surveillance cameras prohibitive.

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 12:47 PM (/gHaE)

98 Diogenes,

You do know you can down one those don't you? It requires radar (not that hard) and something in 50 cal or better.

Its those little peeper ones that freak me out . I have tennis rackets for those.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 04:43 PM (cCxiu)



They will eventually make them with lower radar cross sections, and as you said, they are working on making little ones. 


Also, like I said, I maintain a thread called "Skynet is coming" over at a website called "Talk Polywell."  I've got quite a few articles posted about what they are doing with current technology.  It's getting less amusing every month.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 12:48 PM (bb5+k)

99 But the real question is how many skins from missing 20 year old hookers do you have curing in your basement next to the venison freezer?

Posted by: at March 03, 2013 04:46 PM (+OTLF)


Hard to count them, they have sort of rotted. I'd say maybe a 100? 

Posted by: Billy Bob, Pseudo Intellectual at March 03, 2013 12:48 PM (wR+pz)

100 97 Wow, I am blessed. My son and I went over our guns. After counting about 50, we remembered we had forgotten a closet with another 20.



Don't be coming over to my house without an invitation.

Posted by: Billy Bob, Pseudo Intellectual at March 03, 2013 04:45 PM (wR+pz)



This was right before you both went boating, right?  Right?!

Posted by: Tami[/i] at March 03, 2013 12:49 PM (X6akg)

101

Keep an eye out for Megaweapon!

http://mst3k.wikia.com/wiki/Megaweapon


Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at March 03, 2013 12:50 PM (RX/yE)

102 @102  
This was right before you both went boating, right? Right?!


Missed that?  Help me out here.

Posted by: Billy Bob, Pseudo Intellectual at March 03, 2013 12:50 PM (wR+pz)

103 The drones are capable of detecting whether someone is carrying a long arm or something similar in shape and possible composition (made of metal as opposed to say wood) and probably can't detect a hand gun.

But they could go for tandem use or squadron tactics and have one or two drones dedicated to detection and tracking while others carry ordnance once a target is designated.

I was almost half way serious about the oak clusters on the drone award medal.

Those operators already have shown how effective they can be. At least at modifying the target population's behavior.

It's just one big video game. Those are just pixels on the screen to them.

Anyone ever read Ender's Game?

Posted by: New Connecticut Gun Control Bill Now Pending While We Figure Out How Much We Can Get Away With at March 03, 2013 12:50 PM (qyv02)

104 You do have an idea of what the operating range of these things are? Beyond that, you do know the operators can be on the other side of the planet? Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 04:37 PM (bb5+k) ------------------- Their's a tactic and manuover element for every situation. Drones are no different than any other weapon. They can be weakened and/or neutralized. You just have to sit down and calmly plan your action.

Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2013 12:50 PM (z4FGn)

105 DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 04:37 PM
Kenneth Trentadue at March 03, 2013 04:16 PM
IllTemperedCur at March 03, 2013 04:01 PM

RE: remote drone operations

(Special note: I'm speaking hypothetically, philosophically, ideologically not like actually advocating anything. Just in case there are any COIN or Intel or LEO observing the discussion.)

The point being, the next insurrection, if there is one, won't be 1860's style skirmish lines and troop movements invented by Napoleon. It will be more like inside the building, cubical by cubical. because 'they' already know where 'we' are. So we have to be not here, when they come for us, you see?

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 03, 2013 12:51 PM (G5abw)

106
Firearms have their place. Wonderful tool for making maintenance costs of surveillance cameras prohibitive.

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 04:47 PM (/gHaE)


We are approaching a point where technology will make it feasible to spray the things out of airplanes in the manner of crop dusting.  


Seriously, if you think you are going to shut off the cameras, you are mistaken.  They are made mostly of sand.





Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 12:51 PM (bb5+k)

107 Firearms have their place. Wonderful tool for making maintenance costs of surveillance cameras prohibitive.
Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 04:47 PM (/gHaE)

Combined with mobile sound location sensing equipment, that may not be as cost free as it may appear and suppressors cut the hell out of range.

Posted by: New Connecticut Gun Control Bill Now Pending While We Figure Out How Much We Can Get Away With at March 03, 2013 12:52 PM (qyv02)

108 Hummingbird drone.


|||http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRwPCzUpGLU

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 12:53 PM (bb5+k)

109 And putting away the sock

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 12:54 PM (qyv02)

110 Consider all FSA types and known Liberals to be informers.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 12:54 PM (qyv02)

111 How hard would it be to get an ammo factory up and running? I imagine damn near impossible just to get past regulations and red tape.

Posted by: real joe at March 03, 2013 12:54 PM (PD2ad)

112 @102, Tami...Ah boating accidents! Amazing how they can happen. I even know a guy in the middle of the Mojave desert that had one. He swears the sand swallowed those guns up. Don't even get me started on sinkholes, or gun grabbing illegal aliens of the extraterrestrial type.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 12:55 PM (cCxiu)

113 One of the coolest things about going over all your guns?

Remembering guns that you haven't used in years.  The memories of hunts.

That hobo I just wounded because I had a 9mm instead of my 40.  These things always haunt you.

What was I thinking?

I really have some neat shit that my sons will get one day.

Posted by: Billy Bob, Pseudo Intellectual at March 03, 2013 12:56 PM (wR+pz)

114 As far as shotguns go, I would carry a 20 year old Remington 870 into heated combat as soon as anything else. I never cease to be amazed at the beauty, simplicity, durability, and reliability of the design. I understand that since Remington "improved" (that means cheapened) the design, its now a registered piece of shit. That is a crime. It was the best pump shotgun in the world.

Posted by: maddogg at March 03, 2013 12:57 PM (xX+d4)

115 The point being, the next insurrection, if there is one, won't be 1860's style skirmish lines and troop movements invented by Napoleon. It will be more like inside the building, cubical by cubical. because 'they' already know where 'we' are. So we have to be not here, when they come for us, you see?

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 03, 2013 04:51 PM (G5abw)



See my previous post of the humming bird drone.  I bet they can make them cheap enough to fly right at you with enough plastic to get you.  Get that one, and it's little brother will come right behind it.




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 12:58 PM (bb5+k)

116 The Winchester AA Tracker loads look quite interesting as a personal/home defense load. I wonder what happens when the wad hits the target ... ?

Posted by: Arbalest at March 03, 2013 12:58 PM (zbCnI)

117 Combined with mobile sound location sensing equipment, that may not be as cost free as it may appear and suppressors cut the hell out of range.

A .22 hush puppy pistol is still good for a couple hundred yards.  In an urban environment that may as well be 50 miles.  The Ruger Mk 2 heavy barrel quiets down nicely.

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 12:58 PM (/gHaE)

118 @115, Joe Just reload. Its not that much of an investment. Think of it as your own private ammo factory. Wheel weights for lead..molds,and a cookpot. You already have brass. It just requires powder, primers, and some basic equipment. And if they ask what you bought that powder for, well it was for blowing stumps!

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 12:59 PM (cCxiu)

119 the comments directed @ the Romney's today are just as lethal.

Posted by: capisce at March 03, 2013 12:59 PM (UGq/L)

120 Missed that? Help me out here.

Posted by: Billy Bob, Pseudo Intellectual at March 03, 2013 04:50 PM (wR+pz)



The boating accident where you lost all those guns....reeeemember?

Posted by: Tami[/i] at March 03, 2013 01:00 PM (X6akg)

121 122 Judge, I am thinking of a business enterprise. I see a demand in the marketplace that needs filling.

Posted by: real joe at March 03, 2013 01:01 PM (PD2ad)

122 Ammo?

WTF?

22LR is hard to find.  I mean really.  I guess the AR-15 conversion for the 22 is driving that demand.

Really, 22 ammo? 

My son has a theory.  Every redneck is buying shit up with the hope of reselling it this summer, buy June Bubba will be busted.

Posted by: Billy Bob, Pseudo Intellectual at March 03, 2013 01:01 PM (wR+pz)

123
Combined with mobile sound location sensing equipment, that may not be as cost free as it may appear and suppressors cut the hell out of range.

Posted by: New Connecticut Gun Control Bill Now Pending While We Figure Out How Much We Can Get Away With at March 03, 2013 04:52 PM (qyv02)


I can tell you if a rifle is approaching me from several miles away.  The barrel is resonate at a radio frequency determined by it's length.  Just ping it with an active transmission and listen to the echo.  Range and direction are easily determined this way. 








Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 01:01 PM (bb5+k)

124

Went to the Glendale California Gun Show yesterday.  I live about a mile away from where it's held two times a year, but have never bothered to go.  Had a Marlin Model 39 .22 LR as a kid, but it was stolen from my Dad's house years ago. I got my fill of rifles, machine guns, 106 mm reccoilless rifles in the military, 45 years ago, so guns aren't my particular thing.  OTOH local assholes have been trying to shut the gun show down (it's held in a city owned building) so I thought I'd go take a look.   Might not be there in a while, and I'd hate to miss it.

 

Well I have to say that President Numb Nuts is the best ammo salesman in the world.  One ammo supply seller  had to set up Disneyland style waiting areas with a line of customers about 100 people long.  There were some vendor signs at other booths that they were sold out of a particular caliber--but most of them had ammo to sell.  Most popular purchase size?   A 500 round box or ammo can.   I mean these folks were getting while the getting was good.  Being a somewhat well off guy--or at least living in a somewhat well off neighborhood, I had to note that a lot of the folks there looked like they couldn't or shouldn't be dropping twelve or thirteen hundred dollars on 1,500 rounds of ammo---but there they were.   Couldn't get those hard earned greenbacks out of their wallets fast enough.

 

But I will say this; they also looked like the sort of folks who would know that  Slow Joe Biden was blowing smoke up their heinie with advice about (a) firing a shotgun in the air off the balcony or (b) firing a shotgun through the door.  Pizza delivery boys are safe around the folks at the gun show;  around Slow Joe, not so much.

Posted by: Comanche Voter at March 03, 2013 01:02 PM (oe1aw)

125 The boating accident where you lost all those guns....reeeemember?

Posted by: Tami at March 03, 2013 05:00 PM (X6akg)


Wasn't me.  Unless I was in another life ( I am not ruling that out).  I have had some stolen, I dropped some in a swamp, but I have never lost any in a boat turnover that I didn't recover.  

Posted by: Billy Bob, Pseudo Intellectual at March 03, 2013 01:03 PM (wR+pz)

126 Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 04:58 PM (/gHaE)

You should read more Science Fiction.

If a drone can see YOU, you're dead. Maybe not by the drone you manage to shoot but by the 100 other fuckers on the same channel.

That's why the size of the newest ones is more scary. It means saturation coverage.

And an urban environment is perfect for the little drones. Plenty of places for them to coop to conserve batteries and just observe.

Lots of places for repeater xmitters for constant contact.

Not saying they can't be defeated or countered, just much more difficult.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 01:04 PM (qyv02)

127 Somebody posted a Biden joke yesterday. Knock Knock... *BLAM*

Posted by: real joe at March 03, 2013 01:05 PM (PD2ad)

128 Can't find anything around me. Drawing a blank here, but who is the poster troll who owns ALL THE GUNS. Him. I blame him.

Posted by: RWC at March 03, 2013 01:06 PM (sqp6o)

129 The barrel is resonate at a radio frequency determined by it's length.

So do crowbars, pieces of pipe, etc.  Lotta chafe you gotta sort through there to find a kernel of wheat.

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 01:06 PM (/gHaE)

130 And an urban environment is perfect for the little drones. Plenty of places for them to coop to conserve batteries and just observe.

Lots of places for repeater xmitters for constant contact.

Not saying they can't be defeated or countered, just much more difficult.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 05:04 PM (qyv02)


It's getting ugly.  Skynet IS coming, but it won't be machines running it. It will be Fascist Nazi bastards.





Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 01:07 PM (bb5+k)

131 DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 05:01 PM

So if I had a few weapons concealed within my residence, you could drive down the street in a  panel truck and scan the buildings as you went by? The gun safe would show up as a black box? Or scan from the air? With (crap what it is) ground scanning radar (?) detect the conex container buried in the back yard?

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 03, 2013 01:07 PM (G5abw)

132 @126

Fuck I can not spell or write.  I have to re read my posts three times to correct my stupid, then I post and damn it find more stupid.

Sad. I guess I am getting sometimers, some times I have a clue, some times I don't.

Posted by: Billy Bob, Pseudo Intellectual at March 03, 2013 01:07 PM (wR+pz)

133 Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 05:07 PM (bb5+k)

Actually it will be nerdy guys in little cubicles in some air conditioned bunker on an AF base.

The ones deciding POLICY will be in DC.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 01:08 PM (qyv02)

134 So do crowbars, pieces of pipe, etc. Lotta chafe you gotta sort through there to find a kernel of wheat.

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 05:06 PM (/gHaE)


Map it.  Target what moves.




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 01:09 PM (bb5+k)

135 If a drone can see YOU, you're dead.

That's gonna go over well in the Galleria mall parking lot.  Surround yourself with liberals.

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 01:09 PM (/gHaE)

136 I don't think they're going to worry about collateral damage.

So many will be members of FSA that it'll be a win win.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 01:11 PM (qyv02)

137 @127, Diogenes, While your rifle pinging equipment may be all that and a bag of chips, when there is a rifle behind every blade of grass pointed at you, as that Japanese General said when asked why Japan did not invade the US, then I submit that isn't going to do you a lot of good.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 01:12 PM (cCxiu)

138 Map it. Target what moves.

Dogs move.  People with umbrellas move.  Kids with paint ball guns move.  There's so many ways to make that kind of scheme unproductive its hilarious.

Nobody can afford to chase those kinds of ghosts.

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 01:13 PM (/gHaE)

139  

    There are not enough drones, nor is the development near the stage where they would be a concern.  Predator types are what would be encountered. 

   But ponder this--if ONE individual (Dorner) can cause so much trouble, just think what thousands could do.  At any time, at any place, and in any manner.  Then you have a clue what a nightmare the gov't would face.

Posted by: irongrampa at March 03, 2013 01:13 PM (SAMxH)

140
So if I had a few weapons concealed within my residence, you could drive down the street in a panel truck and scan the buildings as you went by? The gun safe would show up as a black box? Or scan from the air? With (crap what it is) ground scanning radar (?) detect the conex container buried in the back yard?

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 03, 2013 05:07 PM (G5abw)


I'm just referring to one technique.  There are others, but the one I mention is simple.  A rifle,  in your house, not surrounded by a safe, but just in a closet or hanging on the wall, will absorb rf energy from a transmitter of the correct frequency. (They will just sweep a range of frequencies.) 


The Rifle barrel will release the energy at the same frequency as was the original transmission.  It will "echo" the original transmission long enough to get a fix on it.


A rifle barrel is only a rifle barrel because it is beheld by a gun minded individual.  To a Radio engineer, it looks like an antenna. 


Put it in a metal cabinet,  and it's characteristic length will not be detectable with this method.  Underground? Yes it can be detected. The ground just reduces the range of detection.







Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 01:15 PM (bb5+k)

141 Merry news on the hoarding front, I have two new weapons inbound. A Taurus 605 for CC, since the 4" Taurus I have are a bit large for the pocket, and a new commie rifle: a Yugo SKS to join his Mosin brothers. On the down side, 7.62X39 is not something I have stockpiled and it's not anywhere near as cheap as the surplus 54R. Oh, and Happy Birthday to me.

Posted by: toby928© at March 03, 2013 01:15 PM (QupBk)

142
Actually it will be nerdy guys in little cubicles in some air conditioned bunker on an AF base.

The ones deciding POLICY will be in DC.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 05:08 PM (qyv02)


Not all the Wehrmacht were Nazis, but it was still Nazis in charge of them.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 01:17 PM (bb5+k)

143 But ponder this--if ONE individual (Dorner) can cause so much trouble, just think what thousands could do.

Every day I say a prayer that AQ remains too stupid to realize this.  Imagine what a half dozen Mohamed/Malvo teams wandering the country randomly murdering people would do. 

Just one team had the DC area in a panic for weeks...and they were stupid and didn't move around randomly. They stayed close to DC.  Had they made a couple of hits and moved on, they could still be plying their trade.

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 01:17 PM (/gHaE)

144
While your rifle pinging equipment may be all that and a bag of chips, when there is a rifle behind every blade of grass pointed at you, as that Japanese General said when asked why Japan did not invade the US, then I submit that isn't going to do you a lot of good.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 05:12 PM (cCxiu)


The Japanese did not have rifle detecting drones with hell fire missiles.  


I would expect the US Government to use the same tactics on American troublemakers  as it would use on Iraqi/Afghanistani insurgents. Probably even better ones because I think Americans are more ingenious.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 01:19 PM (bb5+k)

145 Had they made a couple of hits and moved on, they could still be plying their trade. Yep. That's why the dark side always starts with the advantage. It's easier to destroy than to build, easier to start a panic than to organize. Fortunately, smart terrorists are rare.

Posted by: toby928© at March 03, 2013 01:20 PM (QupBk)

146 irongrampa at March 03, 2013 05:13 PM

Well, that's the thing. If Al Qaeda can have a diffuse command structure (and they really don't or do, kinda) it works for 'us' also.

Which raises the question of trust and loyalty. Who do you trust, when you suspect the guy sitting next to you is a government agent, or if you are the government agent how certain are you that the guy at the next desk isn't a rebel?

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 03, 2013 01:20 PM (G5abw)

147 Dogs move. People with umbrellas move. Kids with paint ball guns move. There's so many ways to make that kind of scheme unproductive its hilarious.

Nobody can afford to chase those kinds of ghosts.

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 05:13 PM (/gHaE)


Computers can.   They don't care how boring it is tracking a particular bogey.  They will do it to perfection.  Bogeys which don't move in a threatening directions don't matter. Only those that move in an objectionable direction.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 01:21 PM (bb5+k)

148 Collect the casings and reload. Nuff said.

Posted by: Liliana at March 03, 2013 01:21 PM (Zx3MS)

149 @145 Toby..a yugo! You did real good! You rock! I have 2 , actually 10 sks total. They are fun guns to shoot! If you look around you can find 7.62 x 39 ammo. I just had 1000 delivered. Hey, get some blanks and some of those grenades. (see www.keepshooting.com) for the inert grenades. If you have a Yugo, you just have to launch some grenades (for fun and practice).

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 01:24 PM (cCxiu)

150 Order 30 & 40rd mags from Brownell's. They're back up to speed now and shipping's fast.

Posted by: Evil Bob's Left Testie at March 03, 2013 01:25 PM (GrtrJ)

151
But ponder this--if ONE individual (Dorner) can cause so much trouble, just think what thousands could do. At any time, at any place, and in any manner. Then you have a clue what a nightmare the gov't would face.

Posted by: irongrampa at March 03, 2013 05:13 PM (SAMxH)


Being a bother to the civilian police (who have restrictions on what they can do to the civilian population) and being a bother to Nazi-Skynet are not the same thing at all.


The newest drone camera system records everything in super high resolution.  They can track the movements within a massive area of ground for days at a time. (I read six terrabytes of data per day.)  If they were set up to do so, and given the word "go."  They could have found Dorner in just a few hours.





Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 01:27 PM (bb5+k)

152
Just one team had the DC area in a panic for weeks...and they were stupid and didn't move around randomly. They stayed close to DC. Had they made a couple of hits and moved on, they could still be plying their trade.

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 05:17 PM (/gHaE)


Firing from inside the trunk of a car was a very effective tactic.  It is amazing that they were caught at all.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 01:29 PM (bb5+k)

153 IN her introduction to a compelling new study, “The Arab Spring and Climate Change,” released Thursday, the Princeton scholar Anne-Marie Slaughter notes that crime shows often rely on the concept of a “stressor.” A stressor, she explains, is a “sudden change in circumstances or environment that interacts with a complicated psychological profile in a way that leads a previously quiescent person to become violent.” The stressor is never the only explanation for the crime, but it is inevitably an important factor in a complex set of variables that lead to a disaster. “The Arab Spring and Climate Change” doesn’t claim that climate change caused the recent wave of Arab revolutions, but, taken together, the essays make a strong case that the interplay between climate change, food prices (particularly wheat) and politics is a hidden stressor that helped to fuel the revolutions and will continue to make consolidating them into stable democracies much more difficult.

It's easier to make a case that Twitter and FaceBook were a bigger "stressor" in the Arab Spirng than you can with Climate Change.

Posted by: Mark Zuckerberg at March 03, 2013 01:30 PM (e8kgV)

154 There's so many ways to make that kind of scheme unproductive its hilarious. Add insulation to you attic. To keep it from shifting, staple a layer of ALUMINUM mosquito screen, or maybe STEEL chicken mesh over it. Being home-do-it-yourselfers, the quality will be poor. There will be creases that stick up 4" or more, the layout won't be square, etc. Run a couple of wires to the nearest plumbing line.

Posted by: Arbalest at March 03, 2013 01:33 PM (zbCnI)

155 Bogeys which don't move in a threatening directions don't matter.

Too much vulnerable stuff and people in public places for that to be any good. 

First time you call in a strike on a bunch of kids with BB guns, you're out of a job and cost a whole bunch of people up the line their jobs too.

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 01:33 PM (/gHaE)

156 DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 05:27 PM
Tactically Dorner made a lot of mistakes.

If he had support, safe house, money, he would have been much more difficult to locate. With that support comes the increased risk of betrayal. In an urban environment it would have been not just the police looking for him, it would have been all the organized gangs who wanted him captured so the police activity would calm down, and in helping the police, the gangs would earn a get out of jail card free for helping the cops.

I agree with others who have made the point that this is going to be a spy vs spy contest, at least, for a time. And it's it's going to be a propaganda war.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 03, 2013 01:37 PM (G5abw)

157
It's easier to make a case that Twitter and FaceBook were a bigger "stressor" in the Arab Spirng than you can with Climate Change.

Posted by:Mark Zuckerburger at March 03, 2013 05:30 PM (e8kgV)


The Best explanation I heard for what caused the Arab Spring is idiot democrats in Congress. 


Many Arabs are very poor and live a very tight existence. Most of their money goes for food.  Anything which affects food prices hurts them disproportionately.


Stupid Democrats creating the Ethanol fuel mandate created a chain reaction in food markets.  Because the Ethanol was MANDATED,  so much fuel had to have Ethanol added to it.  The primary source of this Ethanol was corn, causing serious spikes in the price of corn.  Increased corn prices caused people to shift to other grains for feeding livestock, causing a ripple effect in the other grain markets. 


The prices of all grains increased.  This put a hurt on the poor in the Arab world and they got upset about it. Hence, "Arab Spring."


Much disaster in the world can be traced back to Idiot Democrats and their stupid policies.  Jimmy Carter's role in overthrowing the Shah of Iran has so far resulted in over a million dead from the Iran/Iraq war, which would not have happened had the Shah remained in power.





Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 01:37 PM (bb5+k)

158 I would expect the US Government to use the same tactics on American troublemakers as it would use on Iraqi/Afghanistani insurgents. Probably even better ones because I think Americans are more ingenious. Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 05:19 PM (bb5+k) If they were that abyssally stupid, the likely result would be the end of the country. In the worst, most destructive fashion possible. Hey, maybe they all really do have little "Prairie Fire" shrines, it could be, they certainly have the history. Unfortunately all we can do is react should it happen, because people are too ignorant / complacent / Bidenish for anything else.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] at March 03, 2013 01:37 PM (bxiXv)

159 Add insulation to you attic.

Gardens are full of metal plant stakes about 4' long.  My mom used to hold up all sorts of plants with short lengths of EMT.  Concrete is full of rebar.  Plaster walls are full of expanded metal lath.  Drop ceilings are a huge metal grid, 2x4 troffer lights are a nice Faraday cage.

Course, you can always just stick it in the trunk of a car...

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 01:38 PM (/gHaE)

160 Do both shotguns carry the Joe Biden Seal of Approval, or only the non-assault version?

Posted by: buzzsawmonkey at March 03, 2013 01:39 PM (9eWb0)

161 164 Do both shotguns carry the Joe Biden Seal of Approval, or only the non-assault version? Posted by: buzzsawmonkey at March 03, 2013 05:39 PM (9eWb0) Nothing, the political elites only have $10,000 over/under "sporting" guns.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] at March 03, 2013 01:42 PM (bxiXv)

162
Run a couple of wires to the nearest plumbing line.

Posted by: Arbalest at March 03, 2013 05:33 PM (zbCnI)


I assume you are referring to the detection of guns in people's houses by pinging.  I wasn't suggesting that this methodology would be used for detecting guns in people's houses, I was answering a question as to whether it COULD. 


Yes, it's easy to defeat the ability of such a system to detect guns in your house. (Putting them in a gun safe is the easiest.)  That is not where such a system would likely be employed anyway.


Guns in people's houses are not so much of a concern as guns out in the street or in the field.   THAT is where such a system becomes useful.  Detecting actively moving armed targets.  Now what were you saying about running wires to the plumbing?  (That's actually a silly idea.)



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 01:43 PM (bb5+k)

163 "the essays make a strong case that the interplay between climate change, food prices (particularly wheat) and politics is a hidden stressor that helped to fuel the revolutions and will continue to make consolidating them into stable democracies much more difficult."


Well, the essays may have made a strong case weren't they batshit insane. Lets leave aside the lunacy of "climate change" and laugh instead at the idea of Arab nations consolidating into "stable democracies."

Posted by: cm9000 at March 03, 2013 01:44 PM (vfB2N)

164
Too much vulnerable stuff and people in public places for that to be any good.

First time you call in a strike on a bunch of kids with BB guns, you're out of a job and cost a whole bunch of people up the line their jobs too.

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 05:33 PM (/gHaE)


Well Absolutely! Every time we kill some innocents in Iraq or Afghanistan, they shut down the whole thing!!! 


Get real.  In a scenario such as I am suggesting (Nazi-Skynet) they will not concern themselves with innocent casualties. 




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 01:46 PM (bb5+k)

165 Well, the gun is black and the bottom one has one of those hand grips, so it must be a fully automatic assault weapon.... right?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 03, 2013 01:46 PM (piMMO)

166 My   BF  Barry  is  always  and  all  ways  packing.   Barry  doesn't  shoot  blanks  either!   Mmmm  -   mmmm   -   mmmm.

Posted by: Reggie Love at March 03, 2013 01:47 PM (ypzqs)

167 Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at March 03, 2013 05:37 PM (bxiXv)


Plan for the worst, hope for the best.  I see nothing in this current crop of Fascist that makes me think they would be merciful or careful.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 01:48 PM (bb5+k)

168 Drop ceilings are a huge metal grid... Keep in mind that frequencies with a shorter wavelength than the "opening" will get through, and back. Drop ceilings might allow a useful view. Add some noise, make it look like a lot of successive construction was done. Also keep in mind that a noisy reflection is better than a solid one. A solid response suggests a solid wall ... something worth investigating later.

Posted by: Arbalest at March 03, 2013 01:49 PM (zbCnI)

169
Course, you can always just stick it in the trunk of a car...

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 03, 2013 05:38 PM (/gHaE)


They track cars too.  


Didn't say the system can't be defeated, or momentarily confused, but it is not so simple.  It's easy enough to resonance map an entire region, then compare current maps with previous ones to detect changes. 

A Few eyeballs can usually tell whether the changes constitute a threat or not.  Still, such a system would make it hard to bring rifles to bear on any target that was looking for such rifles.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 01:51 PM (bb5+k)

170 So are any of the budding indy authors of The Horde getting any story ideas yet?

What conditions would have to be in place to feed an insurrection? What would be the first few overt events? What would be the triggering event? Who would be the players? You would have both powerful political forces, and street level  community issues to resolve. You have ample data from just the last ten years, not to mention the fifty years of East vs West covert operations.

If a powerful politician were actually going to attempt a coup, what would it look like?

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 03, 2013 01:51 PM (G5abw)

171 166 DiogenesLamp Yes. The idea is to make an area (or a volume) that is too noisy to be remotely examined. A gun safe seems a bit small. An entire home, and maybe the garage and surrounding areas makes much more sense.

Posted by: Arbalest at March 03, 2013 01:53 PM (zbCnI)

172 Went to Carolina Sporting Arms, Dicks, and Walmart. Walmart has some .30-06 and .17 (Winchester 2550 fps 17 gr "V-Max"0, and "some" shotgun shells. Dick's has plenty of shot-gun shells. CSA had plenty of guns, including 2 AK variants, and 3 (way-overpriced) AR's. But limited ammo. No .22 LR. No 5.56. No .223. After getting previous affirmation on a AoS thread that the "Partizan" PPU is indeed "good stuff", I bought the 2 box limit of the 50 cartridge Serbian PPU FMJ 230 gr .45 APC. They did have "knock off" polymer 30 rd mags. (not P-Mag) for $29.99. Didn't buy. I want the Gen 3 "window" P-Mags.

Posted by: Capt. Backfire at March 03, 2013 01:53 PM (mkb9H)

173 174 Skandia Recluse,

I uh am not a er dictator uh I love um duh-mah-cracy...


Posted by: sven10077 at March 03, 2013 01:54 PM (LRFds)

174 Diogenes, how is that pinging system going to work for hunters, or people with CHL? Or the kids with bb guns as another poster out? Or a plumber or electirican carrying around pipe? I offer this as a testament to effectiveness. You and I know the US gummit sniffs every phone conversation and email in the US. Its too much data to handle. Even though they are looking for words like "bomb", how many tweets, emails etc., say..something to the effect of ...that was the 'Bomb". I was so bombed last night. My wife dropped the bomb on me. etc., etc. The Chinese laugh at them. I was talking to a Chinese general about this while working in China. He said we tried the same shit, it didn't work so we just cut access to You Tube , etc. I said I have a VPN, I can still get U tube. He said yes, and we are watching you too. I had to laugh.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 01:54 PM (cCxiu)

175 Plan for the worst, hope for the best. I see nothing in this current crop of Fascist that makes me think they would be merciful or careful. Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 05:48 PM (bb5+k) I explicitly did not say they would never try it, just that none of us would survive it (in a form we recognize, nationally). Regardless of "plans." Nevertheless, the pattern so far has been gradualism of increasing speed, with the occasional outrage, and as unpleasant as it is that's what I expect.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] at March 03, 2013 01:57 PM (bxiXv)

176 Our local Meijer's has plenty of shotgun ammo (Michigan). They also have       30-06, 30 30, 270, and several other hunting type ammo. They had a couple boxes of .22 shorts in the locked cabinet and that was it.

Posted by: Bill R. at March 03, 2013 01:58 PM (QnRSM)

177 179 Mero,

While I do feel that the Democrats' RoE would be harder here than they allow overseas I think it is hyperbolic to say we'd all die.  It would be hard, there would be losses not seen on this soil in a long, long time but in the end they'll lose.  I know more about retirement counseling than the average F$A member.

Posted by: sven10077 at March 03, 2013 01:59 PM (LRFds)

178 I can tell you if a rifle is approaching me from several miles away.

Diogenes, the trick is in weeding out the false positives. You may come up with a method like you say, which will also detect every flagpole and leaf rake in the area. Even in the controlled environment of the airport checkpoint, detection is marginal at best.

Posted by: Rule #2 at March 03, 2013 01:59 PM (CypDC)

179
Yes. The idea is to make an area (or a volume) that is too noisy to be remotely examined. A gun safe seems a bit small. An entire home, and maybe the garage and surrounding areas makes much more sense.

Posted by: Arbalest at March 03, 2013 05:53 PM (zbCnI)


We developed the "pinger" technology to detect hidden bugs.  Any semiconductor will radiate in the ghz spectrum, and a simple hand held device which contains a transmitter and receiver in the correct frequency range can be used to detect any semiconductor which is nearby. 


Even with the bug turned off, they could be located by the resonance emission of the semiconductor material. 


We thought we were so smart in developing this technology.  "Now let those dirty Ruskies try and plant bugs in OUR Embassy!!!!" 


The Russians responded by getting reject semiconductor diodes from their electronics factories, and dumping them into the cement mix by the millions.  Inside our embassy, every where they point the thing, it registers a bug.  We can't tell the real bugs from the fake bugs.


You are suggesting something similar for a gun pinger.   Sure, for stationary guns, or perhaps for prepared areas within urban environments where guns are intending to be used and hidden.


Get them in the streets or the fields, and it gets a lot harder to cover up their existence.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 01:59 PM (bb5+k)

180 Since ya'll are still on the drone thing, here's something the Army is using now:  http://preview.tinyurl.com/3wrx6ay .  It's called "Switchblade".  Designed for small infantry units.  Operator finds his target lines it up, guides Switchblade in...which incidentally, turns off its motor and glides silently in the terminal phase.

Posted by: Country Singer at March 03, 2013 02:01 PM (CgcOa)

181 Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 05:54 PM (cCxiu)

Computer power is still following Moore's law.   They ARE going to be able to intercept every communication and process every bit of it.  They are even now building a massive new facility (In Utah, I think) for accomplishing this very task.



The Chinese might not be able to do it, but the bleeding edge of Intelligence technology is in this country, and we will most certainly be able to do it.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 02:03 PM (bb5+k)

182

Just realized...if I could send this thread back in time  just  5 years to any of you posting, you'd all swear this is some crazy conspiracy tinfoil  hat wearing blog full of nutjobs.   But the comments all seem rational and reasonable today.  

 

How far we've come is such a short period....sad.

Posted by: Icedog at March 03, 2013 02:04 PM (ZM9OS)

183 Well, the gun is black and the bottom one has one of those hand grips, so it must be a fully automatic assault weapon.... right? Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 03, 2013 05:46 PM (piMMO) Hi NDH- Glad you're here. I read that there was a "slight tiff".

Posted by: Capt. Backfire at March 03, 2013 02:05 PM (mkb9H)

184
Nevertheless, the pattern so far has been gradualism of increasing speed, with the occasional outrage, and as unpleasant as it is that's what I expect.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at March 03, 2013 05:57 PM (bxiXv)



I believe such events follow the logistical growth function, or perhaps even exponential.  Things are one way for a long time, when suddenly they are different.


The tools are slowly being accumulated to bring us "Nazi-Skynet."



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 02:05 PM (bb5+k)

185 Just back from Turner's in Corona, CA...ammunition shelves empty...gun cases held maybe 15 handguns, long guns down...knew it would be bad, but this was ridiculous. On the plus side...notice to the shop tomorrow and we are getting out of CA and head to TX at the end of the month. I am blessed to be getting out of this madhouse. Cheers (and back to the vodka).

Posted by: Whiskey_Joe at March 03, 2013 02:05 PM (RIm0W)

186 189 Whiskey Joe,

Welcome home.

Posted by: sven10077 at March 03, 2013 02:06 PM (LRFds)

187
Diogenes, the trick is in weeding out the false positives. You may come up with a method like you say, which will also detect every flagpole and leaf rake in the area. Even in the controlled environment of the airport checkpoint, detection is marginal at best.

Posted by: Rule #2 at March 03, 2013 05:59 PM (CypDC)


Flag poles and leaf rakes are already filtered out.  This is simple.  Any standard length barrel will resonate at a specific frequency.  Ping it at this frequency, and it will sing out " I am specifically this long." 


Objects which are outside the length of interest will not re-emit the absorbed energy on the frequency of interest.


Nobody tries to sneak through an airport checkpoint with a rifle.  The system to which I am referring will likely not work well with pistols.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 02:08 PM (bb5+k)

188 Just got another 880 rounds of 7.62x54r from ammoman. That's the one thing I haven't had trouble finding at any point in the last three months.

Anybody have any experience with 10mm Auto handguns? I've been thinking of picking up a Glock 20 from a new gun shop in town (Glock dealer).

Posted by: kartoffel at March 03, 2013 02:08 PM (OgNv0)

189 Posted by: sven10077 at March 03, 2013 05:59 PM (LRFds) As a result of open warfare, *the country* would die. The principles we value would be tossed aside and they would not be re-instated. If one out of a hundred of your products work, you should be out of business. Revolutions are like that. Other people with other plans have spent decades working very hard to ensure they will "come out on top," you won't even get an invite to the party. The only way to prevent that is to make sure the facts have a voice louder than the lies, and everyone who can work on that has severe ADD and fight with each other constantly. Which is why I think the constitutional convention thing is such a daft idea, you don't have Jefferson and Washington running it, you have Jerry Brown and Chris Christie.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] at March 03, 2013 02:10 PM (bxiXv)

190 Since ya'll are still on the drone thing, here's something the Army is using now: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3wrx6ay . It's called "Switchblade". Designed for small infantry units. Operator finds his target lines it up, guides Switchblade in...which incidentally, turns off its motor and glides silently in the terminal phase.

Posted by: Country Singer at March 03, 2013 06:01 PM (CgcOa)


Don't even need to look.  I've seen it. It's cheap and it's deadly.  They will eventually be able to do the same thing with the humming bird version.


 

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 02:10 PM (bb5+k)

191 @190 - Thank you Sven...you have no idea what this means...kids and grandkids < 2 hours away....when I say blessing, I really mean it.

Posted by: Whiskey_Joe at March 03, 2013 02:11 PM (RIm0W)

192 So we won't go by invasion or even revolutionary overthrow, we're going to be done in by bureaucratic overreach and it's inclination to grow beyond it's designed scope.

The only known action that will remove said growth is annihilation of both the bureaucracy and the bureaucrats is the removal of the source of energy; either the people or the government.

Scorched earth is most effective but most disruptive.

However the way Barry's going, it's looking like that might take less time to recover from than what he's got planned.

Mib

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 02:11 PM (qyv02)

193 First

Posted by: Sharpfocus at March 03, 2013 02:11 PM (noSVa)

194 Just realized...if I could send this thread back in timejust 5 years to any of you posting, you'd all swear this is some crazy conspiracy tinfoil hat wearing blog full of nutjobs. But the comments all seem rational and reasonable today.

Posted by: Icedog at March 03, 2013 06:04 PM (ZM9OS)


I've been thinking the same thing.  This stuff sounds exactly like the "black helicopter" crap that I used to deride.  The difference is, we are using a lot of this stuff on insurgents, and it takes very little imagination to see how it might be used against us too.


We also never had a Nazi like President with his very own cadre of Brownshirts and State Propaganda apparatus.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 02:12 PM (bb5+k)

195 193 Mero,

If you're that afriad of the people in charge elected by the people we're already lost and it is better to have it on the table Mero.  I am not offering that as a personal rebuke towards you, flaming you, impugning your judgement, or being obtuse.  I think this nation is dead already and we are getting by on inertia anyway.

Better to start over while there are still those of us who were alive during America's greatness to save what of the founding we can.

Shut it down, break it up, start over.

Posted by: sven10077 at March 03, 2013 02:13 PM (LRFds)

196 Just saw over on Breitbart that boner sold us out on the sequester. They're going to vote for more CRs.

Posted by: Truman North at March 03, 2013 02:13 PM (I2LwF)

197 The tools are slowly being accumulated to bring us "Nazi-Skynet." Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 06:05 PM (bb5+k) And if you don't get rid of the first and second Amendments *first*, not to mention finish inculcating people into a European "serf" mindset, the "Surveillance-Hellfire State" just becomes a bloody target for a hundred million armed, disaffected, terminally frightened people. Might as well just set it all on fire. Like I said, I'm not saying there aren't people planning that, I'm just saying they're idiots, because it's the kind of plan where there's no "successful outcome," just terrible and worse.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] at March 03, 2013 02:13 PM (bxiXv)

198 Drone Thread Fail.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at March 03, 2013 02:14 PM (celt+)

199 That John Boehner's some kind of cunt, right you guys?

(hey we're all thinking that)

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 02:15 PM (qyv02)

200 On the plus side...notice to the shop tomorrow and we are getting out of CA and head to TX at the end of the month.

I am blessed to be getting out of this madhouse.

Cheers (and back to the vodka).

Posted by: Whiskey_Joe at March 03, 2013 06:05 PM (RIm0W)


Let the 'rats die in their crazy.  Come to where Americans are still sane.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 02:15 PM (bb5+k)

201 I predict a massive population shift by 2016.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 02:16 PM (qyv02)

202 195 Whiskey Joe,

I'm not back home in Texas but I went there as an Ohioan, left thinking I was an Ohioan went home finally to Ohio and discovered I am either a Texan or a Cajun.

They're good people who simply want to work hard and make their own way.  You'll do well.  Keep your eyes peeled for Allen G.  You get inspired let us all know what part of the ArkLaTex you'll be hitting.

As a service to the Blue State horde members pondering going I am wondering if maybe Morons from the ArkLaTex or with recent knowledge should make it part of our nick...

as a matter of I'll start....

Posted by: sven10077-ArkLaTex travelogue and Researcher at March 03, 2013 02:16 PM (LRFds)

203 Just saw over on Breitbart that boner sold us out on the sequester. They're going to vote for more CRs.

Posted by: Truman North at March 03, 2013 06:13 PM (I2LwF)



Oh My God! Who could have seen this coming?




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 02:17 PM (bb5+k)

204 At Weasel Zippers:


For one gun retailer, the Golden State wasnÂ’t so golden.

Shield Tactical, a California retailer and firearms training provider, has decided to ‘get the heck out of Dodge’ — and move to Texas.

John W. Harrington founded Shield Tactical in 2008, but with California’s hard-line stance on gun control, he decided the state was no longer a good place for his business. Harrington, originally from Texas, said it was finally “time to go home.”

“The state of California treats all businesses as necessary evils,” he told Red Alert. “They treat those of us in the gun business as just evil. They make it very clear that they don’t want us there. It’s just that simple.”



http://tinyurl.com/y647dzu

Posted by: Tami[/i] at March 03, 2013 02:17 PM (X6akg)

205 183 DiogenesLamp Quite so. And making it look like the "problem" was caused by successive construction/remodeling work adds plausible deniability. Grounding helps ... and since houses shift, due to heat, and earthquakes (mine does), sometimes the ground disappears ... and then returns ... in some areas ... then in others ... who can explain this? It is a puzzlement ... And for the field, I think a return to certain 80's fashion: metalized, but perhaps with connections to form a mesh, like a bunch of paint-ball splatters (for the trendy), spider webs (for goths) or a tight rip-stop pattern, to stop the material from ripping (for the cost-conscious) ...

Posted by: Arbalest at March 03, 2013 02:17 PM (zbCnI)

206 @ 192, by all accounts those Glocks are fine handguns. But with that said, I can't bring myself to buy a freaking plastic gun, tactical tupperware. Maybe I'm too old and the world just moved on. I am like the bad guy in Conan, I go out in search of steel. I have steel guns over 100 years old that still shoot true and straight, handed down through generations of family. Do you really think a plastic Glock will survive for generations to hand down to your kids? If you don't believe me, kick a Glock and a 1911 into a fire and see which one takes it better.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 02:18 PM (cCxiu)

207 We'll see what Boehner means as well as what he says.

If we can't cut 1/40th the Federal Budget not even a real cut a reduction in the rate of growth I quit.

I quit and I could give three fucks about the National Government.

Fuck Obama.

Posted by: sven10077-ArkLaTex travelogue and Researcher at March 03, 2013 02:19 PM (LRFds)

208 @176

CSA is a rip off place  They used to be Collis Lawing, years ago, they pray on the stupid.  Hyatt does too. 

If you know the right price for a gun, they will give it to you, if you don't they will fuck you. 

I am just leaving it alone for a while.  Hyatt tried to sell me a pistol, The Judge, for $680, the list is $550.  I know Larry and mentioned to him that I was not a fucking idiot.  I got it for $550.

Just walk away, the shit will come down this summer.

Posted by: Billy Bob, Pseudo Intellectual at March 03, 2013 02:19 PM (wR+pz)

209 Better to start over while there are still those of us who were alive during America's greatness to save what of the founding we can. Posted by: sven10077 at March 03, 2013 06:13 PM (LRFds) You're not in a position to "start over." The power-mad want-to-be dictators are a lot closer to that point, and they have the power-mad bureaucrats from around the world to back them up. This is just a *terrible* time to start over because we're disorganized and scattered and they're organized and integrated. Hear from the Celts lately? They faced a more organized and ruthless opponent, and effectively they no longer exist. We should be fighting a holding action while reorganizing, instead we're flailing helplessly over doctrinal differences.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] at March 03, 2013 02:19 PM (bxiXv)

210 What I want to know is some cheap way to measure a building's degree of "leakage" for detection by infra, ultra and electronic means.

What's the point of building something and not knowing if it's even effective?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 02:21 PM (qyv02)

211 207 Diogenes Lamp,

I am making some phone calls, and if the answer is "it is the only way we can keep power at all" I am going to inform the Ohio caucus I am buying an acre of land in Texas denying the State of Ohio another dime of our money by making a true faith declaration to retire to Texas.

I'll vote for the Democrat in Ohio if DoD drags its heels on switching wife's residency to Texas.

I did not send Republicans to Washington DC to fucking empower a communist.

Posted by: sven10077-ArkLaTex travelogue and Researcher at March 03, 2013 02:22 PM (LRFds)

212 213 mero,

Then we'll fight in the shade.

Posted by: sven10077-ArkLaTex travelogue and Researcher at March 03, 2013 02:22 PM (LRFds)

213

[1]But with that said, I can't bring myself to buy a freaking plastic gun, tactical tupperware. Maybe I'm too old and the world just moved on.

 

Personally, I'm holding out for the phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range.

Posted by: Icedog at March 03, 2013 02:23 PM (ZolUS)

214 Take over the GOP. The party apparatus. The positions of power and the infrastructure. Make leadership uncomfortable, and at the same time, get some local conservatives elected. Look like you're playing ball, but start taking up space in the conversation. We have to crowd these party apparatchik assholes out if anything will ever change.

Posted by: Truman North at March 03, 2013 02:24 PM (I2LwF)

215 REPUBLICANS WANT TO HAVE ALL THE GUNS JUST LIKE HILTER!!!!! Why do they hate the children? More practice

Posted by: Navycopjoe loves snow!! at March 03, 2013 02:24 PM (YG/LY)

216 Anybody have any experience with 10mm Auto handguns? I've been thinking of picking up a Glock 20 from a new gun shop in town (Glock dealer). Posted by: kartoffel at March 03, 2013 06:08 PM (OgNv0) I jumped on that bandwagon in the early 90s and haven't left since. The most powerful of the practical pistol cartridges, in a high-capacity format whose design moderates recoil. Sign me up for that! You need long fingers, though, it's a big grip frame. 10mm is rarer than many other major calibers, but my local Sportsman's Warehouse had like 100 boxes of 10mm ammo, mostly full power, last time I looked. As far as Bean's objection, I would advise against throwing any gun into a fire, and yes I expect my Glocks to last.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] at March 03, 2013 02:24 PM (bxiXv)

217 Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at March 03, 2013 06:19 PM (bxiXv)

Well then provide some guidance. Name the process. Design the framework.

Explain the need and explain the deed. Don't just point out the fault, tell us what to change who to listen to, where to go, what to demand.

I see this too much and I do it myself, too many talk about what's not being done and not about how to do what needs to be done.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 02:25 PM (qyv02)

218 219 NCJ,

Your Chicago delegation is gangbusters...with the stress on the word 'gang'

Posted by: sven10077-ArkLaTex travelogue and Researcher at March 03, 2013 02:25 PM (LRFds)

219
And for the field, I think a return to certain 80's fashion: metalized, but perhaps with connections to form a mesh, like a bunch of paint-ball splatters (for the trendy), spider webs (for goths) or a tight rip-stop pattern, to stop the material from ripping (for the cost-conscious) ...

Posted by: Arbalest at March 03, 2013 06:17 PM (zbCnI)


Alternatively, a barrel which can be broken down into smaller resonances and reassembled quickly upon need.


I would think such a thing is do-able.


The military has been using the pinging method to locate hidden transmitter antennas probably since World War II.  Awhile back I saw a clever method for hiding a transmitter antenna.  You fill a loop of glass tubing with Neon or Xenon, and you discharge a high voltage DC current through it.  When the gas ionizes, it forms a perfect conductor, and will function as an antenna.  Turn off the DC, and the gas deionizes, and the Antenna disappears. 


It actually no longer exists.






Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 02:26 PM (bb5+k)

220 In the true Moron spirit, I was at the range when this thread posted. But I hate missing the gun thread. The range here is now so packed with new folks that there are only certain times you can get a bay.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at March 03, 2013 02:26 PM (4Mv1T)

221 218 TruNorth,

Not gonna make a difference now...if the worse is correct and Breitbart is not miscasting Boehner's intent then Obama is a doctator for the next 2 years and why PRECISELY if that is what Boner does would he alter course in 2015?

ie Obama is the first American dictator who will never have passed a regular budget after his first emergency one.

I can't put into words the combination of agony and heartache and blind rage I am feeling as I type this.

Posted by: sven10077-ArkLaTex travelogue and Researcher at March 03, 2013 02:27 PM (LRFds)

222 Posted by: Truman North at March 03, 2013 06:24 PM (I2LwF) You see, *this* guy actually has a plan and is doing something about it. Reform fails a lot, but when it fails millions of people generally don't die, and you can try to reform again (at least until it's too late, and you never know that until, well, it's too late). Also we need to give opposition-research handouts to every Republican who's going to speak to the MFM, because they aren't "journalists," they propagandists for the other party.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] at March 03, 2013 02:28 PM (bxiXv)

223 @215, Sven, welcome to Texas. Have your people call mine when you get here. Its the last refuge of free people and soon to be it's own country! So as it was, so yet it shall be again!

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 02:28 PM (cCxiu)

224
I did not send Republicans to Washington DC to fucking empower a communist.

Posted by: sven10077-ArkLaTex travelogue and Researcher at March 03, 2013 06:22 PM (LRFds)


Yup.  If they don't serve the purpose of opposing this shit, they serve no purpose at all.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 02:28 PM (bb5+k)

225 221 Bitter Clinger,

the plan is allegedly to allow Bam to use our nation's workers and productive as a credit card to buy an ever increasing coalition who view him as even more Godlike than the Great depression era viewed FDR.

We just empowered Barack Hugo Chavez Castro Mummar Qadaffi Hussein Obama.....

Posted by: sven10077-ArkLaTex travelogue and Researcher at March 03, 2013 02:29 PM (LRFds)

226 226 mero,

You do that....

I'll go get Texas or Louisiana ready to say "fuck you" as soon as possible.

We'll see which effort is more productive.

Posted by: sven10077-ArkLaTex travelogue and Researcher at March 03, 2013 02:30 PM (LRFds)

227 Got to get back to my responsibilities.  Sorry I "dronified" the gun thread, but that stuff has been on my mind lately.



Later people.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 02:32 PM (bb5+k)

228 Alternatively, a barrel which can be broken down into smaller resonances and reassembled quickly upon need. This idea worked well for a version of the 88L71 on the Tiger II and Jagpanther, but I foresee all sorts of real-life failures for rifle-caliber weapons. I think a better plan is to disassemble the weapon, then reassemble it. Pump shotgun barrels (e.g., Moss 500) do this quite well. Takedown rifles are also good, but the time required makes them not suitable for immediate reaction under about 1 minute. Thin-gauge (26ga) metal sleeves, somewhat disfigured and of varying length, shape, etc., with varying installation, can help mitigate any resonance issues.

Posted by: Arbalest at March 03, 2013 02:34 PM (zbCnI)

229 Yeah I'm out business was dead for the most part...of course it looks like Boehner is saying since the meanie wienie press won't play nice we're gonna let the New England/RiNO gang run the nation...

because that is what is and must be going on the "moderates" are rebelling again....

I am gonna shut down the PC, play some Romance of the Three Kingdoms and think.

Posted by: sven10077-ArkLaTex travelogue and Researcher at March 03, 2013 02:35 PM (LRFds)

230 . Back later. Harbor Freight Coupon Day.

Posted by: Arbalest at March 03, 2013 02:35 PM (zbCnI)

231 I enjoyed your drone comments Mr Diogenes and I will check out your website.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 02:36 PM (cCxiu)

232 Also we need to give opposition-research handouts to every Republican who's going to speak to the MFM, because they aren't "journalists," they propagandists for the other party. Our highest-profile operation will be trainings open to the public twice a month to instruct them on how to run for local and state office. One in the northern part of he county and one in the southern part, with speakers who have done the various important tasks it takes to do it. This will serve two purposes: actually teaching people how to do it so that they will do it, and some minor fundraising for us and raising our profile.

Posted by: Truman North at March 03, 2013 02:38 PM (I2LwF)

233 Just for your 411,  stock on 20 gauge shotgun shells.
Buck shot is going to be scarce very soon.  NO BULL....

Posted by: marcus tullius cicero at March 03, 2013 02:38 PM (SmCFT)

234 Wait that's three purposes.

Posted by: Truman North at March 03, 2013 02:40 PM (I2LwF)

235 236 Truman North,

Best of luck....

I'm certain that a GOP that had the house flipped back to them in '10 to sell us out and retained the House in the face of total media bias to thwart Obama and is selling us out will be "Mister Smithed"....


I have a better idea.

Vote for the communist hop on the train to the future.

Posted by: sven10077-ArkLaTex travelogue and Researcher at March 03, 2013 02:40 PM (LRFds)

236 Well then provide some guidance. Name the process. Design the framework. Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 06:25 PM (qyv02) Start by designing a platform that you can get, say, 75% of the party to agree to. It doesn't have to contain every issue, leave some things off the table. Make it clear we're talking about national survivals. Deal with other issues later. People will argue, don't get bogged down in the arguments. Be prepared to walk on to the next step. Most people will follow. Make it clear what you're opposing. Half the problem isn't just disagreement, it's getting bogged down in disagreement, not ever moving on. The left moved on, and then came back to push their other agenda pieces later. We just get bogged down and stop. Truman's plan - don't just get involved in local party and elections, make it easier to do so. We need massive online involvement, including local party level - most people don't even know where to look to get information, make it easy to get - and you'll get more people on board and more money from them to pay for it. Stop cooperating with the fucking enemy. Don't let the MFM talk over you. Don't let them control the conversation. Do your homework and confront them. If your representatives won't, you can't just say "don't do that" or "vote them out," you need new candidates, and that's hard as shit because everyone already inside seems to have been co-opted by the permanent bureaucracy. And you aren't going to just suddenly find candidates for congress, you have to get people up through the system, as dumb as it is. Political Hat has a good series of articles and links to more on how the IT end has been utterly shit on our side - I won't say every detail is correct but most of it is. Republicans aren't fighting the last election, they're still fighting the Reagan elections. But most of all, don't try to start a fucking war, especially when the other side has all the organizing advantages and foreign popularity. And yes, foreign power always plays a part in war, or nearly always. It's a simple answer that can't possibly work. I mean, for crying out loud, a significant chunk of the other side's political philosophy is to take charge after breaking the system, they spent their whole lives planning for that, and you're just hoping you can overcome that because your ideas work better. Well, guess what, it's pretty damned clear that consequences of ideas have fuck all to do with politics, and politics is how we pick leader, and guess what it's how they will pick leaders after a war, too (just with different parameters). That doesn't mean you have to act like them, but you have to *convince* people that consequences matter, and you have to do it over the shrieking MFM and left lying the whole time. I know people hate politics. I know people don't want to be involved in that mess. But we've gone past the point where we can avoid it.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] at March 03, 2013 02:41 PM (bxiXv)

237 240 Mero,

Mero the problem I have with this and both you and Truman are doing yeoman work and I respect both your PoVs is that I am about 90% certain we've been sold out by the genuine unarguable REAL RiNO gang embodied by McCain and Graham and the like....

I'll call it the Krispy Kaukus....

there is nothing 75% of the party will agree on that the Krispy Kaukus won't just empower the mules with.

They're holding the House hostage threatening either to jump or run to the totally biased media and hammer the GOP.

Regardless I think this, finally is the nail in the coffin.

I'll leave it go I am gonna get lost maybe try to see if I can not care at all anymore and decide whether or not to focus on trying to Keep Texas Texas.

I'd rather split the country up than get sold out by New England "Republicans"

Posted by: sven10077-ArkLaTex travelogue and Researcher at March 03, 2013 02:47 PM (LRFds)

238 @  240

    Absolutely spot on.  I touched on this earlier.  Our own long march through--but we have a huge advantage in that we already have a base to work with.  That is going to shorten the march considerably.

Posted by: irongrampa at March 03, 2013 02:52 PM (SAMxH)

239 224. We have 2 ranges here, an indoor and an outdoor The outdoor one is insanely full of people everyday On the bright side, we still have tons of ammo on the shelf in all calibers

Posted by: Navycopjoe loves snow!! at March 03, 2013 02:52 PM (jpPSm)

240 Welll, with that said, I wrote a letter to Herr Obama. I told him if you combine the millitary (guard and active military) and the police together they are less than 4 million people. If you look at the current arsenal (police and military combined) its less than 4 million guns. Half of those guys are oath keepers and will not disarm Americans. There were over 275 million firearms in private hands before the gun rush. Obama and his minions don't have the balls, the juice or the resources to disarm Americans. My wife told me I was I crazy for writing that and they would put me on a watch list. I told her, every email, tweet and phone call in the US is sniffed, I'm a long time NRA member, purchase 10,000 rounds of ammo and a myriad of guns a year, have an FFL, a CHL so I've been on a watchlist for years!

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 02:53 PM (cCxiu)

241 I argue that you shouldn't get bogged down in pointless arguments, not let the MFM (trolls) control the conversation... and then I look at the thread that stomped this one. Oy vey, a whole thread answering a troll. Imma go soak my head in a bucket, because it will be more productive.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] at March 03, 2013 02:53 PM (bxiXv)

242 So... I'm just going to come out and ask this question. What sort of stores sell ammo? Other than Wal-mart, because everyone mentions Wal-mart, I don't even know where to look. I've only bought ammo at the range and last time I was there they were completely out of 9mm (and limit you to two boxes). I know where one other gun store is and I could check with them. I went to a sporting goods store when I was looking for a gun to buy and they just had shotguns so I've sort of assumed that they'd just have shotgun ammo so I didn't even look. Which, as I think of it, may be a really stupid assumption. I can spend all afternoon tomorrow driving around town and it would help to have a plan. As it is, if I had to defend myself with my pistol, I'd have to beat the attacker with it.

Posted by: Synova at March 03, 2013 02:56 PM (7/PU+)

243 Absolutely spot on. I touched on this earlier. Our own long march through--but we have a huge advantage in that we already have a base to work with. That is going to shorten the march considerably. Posted by: irongrampa at March 03, 2013 06:52 PM (SAMxH) We're not taking advantage of that base. It's scattered, disconnected, disorganized, and dispirited. The left have the MFM-entertainment-education union complex to keep them connected and on the same page, and that's *before* the whole OFA/DNC apparatus kicks in. Also, they never shut up about their politics, wherever they are, no matter whether it's "appropriate." We're going to have to get a little uncomfortable and talk back, because they just dominate the conversation, between the monopolies and our not wanting to be rude. Go ahead and tell me how your local party, state party, or the GOP keeps in touch with you. I can answer that question for myself - they don't. I get a few generic flyers around elections. Online, we're factionalized and split. I don't suggest that we should abandon all our hangouts, but there's nothing we really do to organize. It wouldn't be easy, herding cats would be a cakewalk. But we aren't going to stop this shit by hiding or running away, never worked, never will.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] at March 03, 2013 02:59 PM (bxiXv)

244 I'm going through more Gunzilla lately than a hippie goes through Patchouli oil.

Posted by: Attila at March 03, 2013 03:01 PM (Cs2tJ)

245 I can spend all afternoon tomorrow driving around town and it would help to have a plan. Posted by: Synova at March 03, 2013 06:56 PM (7/PU+) What town? There are still places selling online at inflated prices, often with long waits. And the sporting goods store may well have had other ammo, should have looked.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] at March 03, 2013 03:01 PM (bxiXv)

246 247 Mero,

Splitting up the country is not running away in that sense.  It just isn't and I am not going to be convinced I have a duty to try to get New Englanders and Californians to stop painting the walls with their diapers on economics.  My duty is to my family first not to 'save the idiots from themselves.'

Posted by: sven10077-ArkLaTex travelogue and Researcher at March 03, 2013 03:05 PM (LRFds)

247 synova, if you can't be bothered to check an assumption (that somewhere selling shotguns wouldn't sell other types of ammo) then you won't do well trying to keep up with folks who've been through this sort of thing before.

You have to research and then check things out and never assume anything.

You're joe blow hardware store or bait shop may carry ammo. (you  may not like the price but then . . )

Plan ahead and plan some more and when you go looking, go "looking" and check every possibility. Around where I am, Walmart hasn't had any ammo in the caliber I want but I still check them whenever I'm there. Just in case.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 03:07 PM (qyv02)

248 Synova, Get yourself online to buy ammo if the stores are out. Go to Midway, Graf and sons, Cabelas, Aimsurplus, SouthernOhioGun, Jg Sales, Classicfirearms, SAmcoglobal etc., and look around. Take your time, and don't pay too much. Grab em by the 1000 crate (volume discount). Ammo if stored properly (no moisture or high temps) will last longer than you or I will.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 03:08 PM (cCxiu)

249 41% of Texas voters chose Obama. You *CAN'T* run away, it's not *possible*.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] at March 03, 2013 03:09 PM (bxiXv)

250 Posted by: sven10077-ArkLaTex travelogue and Researcher at March 03, 2013 07:05 PM (LRFds)

I understand what you're saying and why but that's like being in a boat and saying you can't be bothered to stop the idiots from hacking a hole in the hull.

We're all in this together whether we like it or not. This isn't the 18th century where you can be independent of others (and event then not so much).

there is no area that can completely isolate itself from the others without extreme measures and consequences.

That's why I'm so angry with boehner, he's not even paying lip service to the idea that the republicans have the right idea.

His major concern is that the government keep going. That's all he's interested in.

F. U. C. K.  H. I. M.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 03, 2013 03:12 PM (qyv02)

251 Thanks much. I knew it was a really stupid question, you know. It just never entered my modern consumerist world view that stores might not have what I want just precisely when I want it, 24/7.

Posted by: Synova at March 03, 2013 03:13 PM (7/PU+)

252 Merovign, All of those voters who voted for Obama (and I didnt have time to check that out) were in Houston, Austin, and other well known sanctuary cities. They will be the first to crash and burn. The vast majority of Texas is red. A car with an Obama sticker on it lasts about as long as a corvette parked on a NYC street out here.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 03:15 PM (cCxiu)

253 254 Bitter Clinger,

Texas and Louisiana both pretty much left me the hell alone.  Problems were solved by churches or friends more than Commisar 69 from the Help Desk of Love and Coercion.

I understand what you're saying and when I was thinking under the limitation that the status quo is inherently worth wanting to defend and keep with regards to geography I was of a similar view.

I think I've worked past it, and if it looks as though the fight is over who holds the all powerful ever expanding super hammock state...

I'll go find better scenery to die to.

Posted by: sven10077-ArkLaTex travelogue and Researcher at March 03, 2013 03:17 PM (LRFds)

254 "California is not the hill to die on." "Arizona is not the hill to die on." "Houston is not the hill to die on." "Where the fuck did all the hills go?!?!?!"

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] at March 03, 2013 03:20 PM (bxiXv)

255 But all that aside, just for the "we do the same things here" comment WRT North Korea, someone should be authorized to kick Dennis Rodman in his Jimmies. Hopefully, on this one thing we can all agree.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] at March 03, 2013 03:21 PM (bxiXv)

256 CSA is a rip off place They used to be Collis Lawing, years ago, they pray on the stupid. Hyatt does too. Just walk away, the shit will come down this summer. Posted by: Billy Bob, Pseudo Intellectual at March 03, 2013 06:19 PM (wR+pz) BB! I know. I am really only going to "shop" pricing, and conversate, at Hyatt's and Carolina Sporting Arms. Nichols is my new store. But they are all about the "maximized profit" too. I have paid "stupid" prices, but now I'm a semi-regular (that is recognized), and a little better informed, and can "negotiate" a bit. I was a rabbit and quail "hunter", and squirrel and dove "shooter", growing up. I am coming into the "defense arms" trade a little late. But I know a "ton" more than since Nov., and the AoSHQ was the primer for what I've garnered since. Live and learn.

Posted by: Capt. Backfire at March 03, 2013 03:21 PM (mkb9H)

257 Why would you take a concealed carry class if you did not want the gov to know you had guns?

Posted by: Big Ben at March 03, 2013 03:36 PM (NgMDS)

258 261 BigBen,

indeed...

part of why I have hesitated to get mine back...

Posted by: sven10077-ArkLaTex travelogue and Researcher at March 03, 2013 03:37 PM (LRFds)

259 Here in Orange County NY I was unable to find 12 gauge 00, 000 in 3" or 2 3/4", nor 223. 30-06 and 30-30 plentiful. Only a couple of boxes of 300 win mag available.

Posted by: Richie at March 03, 2013 03:39 PM (dfN00)

260 Why would you take a concealed carry class if you did not want the gov to know you had guns? Posted by: Big Ben at March 03, 2013 07:36 PM (NgMDS) Because it's a Federal "Class H" Felony (unless it is an "antique", in NC), with mandatory sentencing without?

Posted by: Capt. Backfire at March 03, 2013 03:42 PM (mkb9H)

261  Reloading is the only way to go.  I shoot 100 to 150 rounds of centre fire  a week and have not used commercial ammo in 7 years, except 22 LR. With cast bullets you can load a CF round cheaper than current prices of 22 LR.

Posted by: Farmer at March 03, 2013 04:16 PM (F1b3k)

262 The M-38 mosin and P-64 commie pistol arrived. I have another K-31 on coming. Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 04:27 PM (cCxiu) I strongly recommend doing the spring changeout on the Polish Radom P-64. Without a replacement mainspring (bought from Wolff Springs), the double action is ridiculously heavy (approximately 25 lbs), nearly impossible to achieve anything approaching practical combat accuracy. I'm no gunsmith but managed to do everything that needed doing in about 30 minutes. It's now perfect. I mean that literally: the P-64 is, hands down, one of the most accurate and reliable pistols I own. You can get step-by-step directions online. Just google 'Unofficial P-64 Resource'. There's a whole website devoted to it. Everything you need to know is there.

Posted by: troyriser at March 03, 2013 04:23 PM (ptcFO)

263 What sort of stores sell ammo? Posted by: Synova at March 03, 2013 06:56 PM (7/PU+) Like others on here, I buy most of my ammo online, specifically at Widener's Reloading and Classic Arms since many of my favorite shooters are commie surplus and those two tend to sell a lot of combloc surplus-related firearms and accessories. I own a Lee reloading press but reloading components--primers especially--are harder to come by than ammo right now. My most recent purchase is a Mosin-Nagant bolt-action M44 carbine. Love it love it love it.

Posted by: troyriser at March 03, 2013 04:28 PM (ptcFO)

264 It actually no longer exists.





Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 03, 2013 06:26 PM (bb5+k)


And for a rifle with a "standard length barrel", simply add a strip of metallized tape down the wooden stock to the butt, to make it look "longer" electrically. Or fix a bayonet.



You could also make dummy "standard length barrels" out of metallized tape, and stick them on stray dogs, hobos, and Jehovah's Witnesses.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 03, 2013 04:36 PM (673KB)

265 Thanks troy, I'll check out the spring change. I have 2 P-64's. My wife purloined one and took her CHL test with it. Its darn accurate. I let her shoot the P-1, the CZ-82 and the P-64. She liked the P-64 best. Never missed a shot with it, perfect score!

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 05:04 PM (cCxiu)

266 She liked the P-64 best. Never missed a shot with it, perfect score! Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at March 03, 2013 09:04 PM (cCxiu) My girlfriend has more or less appropriated my P-64, as well. She grew up in Boston, a Boston Irish girl, and had no experience with firearms until she met me. Once I taught her fundamentals, she was off to the races. She's Annie Oakley with the P-64 and her little Baretta Bobcat. No, I didn't recommend the Baretta Bobcat to her even though Baretta makes amazingly good pistols. Jeff Cooper once said the big problem with 25 ACP is that if you shot someone with 25 ACP, they might find out about it and get angry. She bought the Baretta Bobcat as her first gun because she thought it was cute.

Posted by: troyriser at March 03, 2013 05:27 PM (ptcFO)

267 Just realized...if I could send this thread back in timejust 5 years to any of you posting, you'd all swear this is some crazy conspiracy tinfoil hat wearing blog full of nutjobs. But the comments all seem rational and reasonable today. How far we've come is such a short period....sad. Posted by: Icedog at March 03, 2013 06:04 PM (ZM9OS) I was just talking with some friends today who stopped by the house. When the conversation drifted to politics we all started talking about ammo availability and then caught ourselves doing it. It was a weird moment. All of us are veterans. There's an undercurrent going on that hums like the third rail in a subway tunnel. I don't think the federal government is paying attention. They should. If they interpreted the sound correctly, maybe they would reconsider predator drones flying overhead and national gun databases.

Posted by: troyriser at March 03, 2013 05:43 PM (ptcFO)

268 It felt good to go out and pop off about 1000 rounds with my boys today. 44-40, 30-30, 40, 38 and of course 22. Those paint cans and papers never knew what hit them.

Posted by: traye at March 03, 2013 07:27 PM (7A/AF)

269 @30 so, with a three-d printer I can counterfeit quarters as well as dollar bills?

Well, if you are Timothy, "TurboTax", Geithner, or Benjamin, "helicopter" Bernanke, yes.

Posted by: jbarntt at March 03, 2013 09:18 PM (UNFot)

270
I have the Benelli M1 assault shotgun.

Posted by: thebronze at March 04, 2013 12:23 AM (MgiYX)

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