Ace of Spades HQ

April 14, 2013

Gun Thread (4-14.2013)
— andy

The NRA 500

Asshat CT Senator Chris Murphy agitated against Fox's broadcasting the NRA 500 from Texas Motor Speedway.

This picture Laura Ingraham tweeted sums up the attitude of the Texan NASCAR fans towards that:

Chris Murphy's referring to the "extreme nature of the NRA" is particularly irritating. I'm the NRA, and I believe the second amendment means what it says. If that makes me an extremist in his eyes, so be it.

Meanwhile Down In Texas

The NRA Annual Meeting will be held in Houston next month, and Governor Perry is inviting gun manufacturers from all over the US to set up shop there.

Hey PTR...Texas is still wide open for business!!Come on down!tinyurl.com/csmn5ps
— Rick Perry (@GovernorPerry) April 12, 2013

Davy Crockett clearly had Chris Murphy and people like him in mind when he said, paraphrasing, "you can all go to hell, and I'll go to Texas", and that same spirit is alive and well there today.

Gun Of The Week

(answer below) Marksmanship Award

Hero of the Day 1 - LA: Robber shot by sandwich shop owner was ex-employee, authorities say - nola.com/crime/index.ssÂ… #NRA (via @nolanews)
— Cam and Company (@CamAndCompany) April 10, 2013

Gun Of The Week - Answer

That's the Winchester Model 1912 (or "Model 12") pump shotgun. Over 2 million of them were produced in the 50+ years it was made, and the Model 12 set the standard for all the pump shotguns that followed.

Project Appleseed

Bob Owens frequently mentions Project Appleseed, and it looks like fun. I'm planning to attend one of their MA events soon.

Headline Of The Week

The WaPo really goes out on a limb here: Gun debate in Senate likely to feature amendments to weaken or strengthen laws

All kidding aside, one "weakening" feature they mention ... national CCW reciprocity ... would be a nice condiment for this crap sandwich.

Gun Control In Chicago

The bad guys have no problem getting guns and the good guys are left to fight them off with baseball bats. Well done, leftists.

A shop owner in Logan Square was shot trying to defend his store, fighting off robbers with just a baseball bat.
The good news is that shop owner is in good condition, after as many as nine shots were directed at him.

This is the history of gun control in a nutshell. All it's good for is disarming the law-abiding and making them more vulnerable to criminals.

Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Celebrate America's firearms heritage: participate in Project Appleseed.

Posted by: andy at 08:30 AM | Comments (109)
Post contains 492 words, total size 5 kb.

1 Ah, the old Model 12.

Posted by: garrett at April 14, 2013 08:30 AM (ZcLG5)

2 Purty model 12. Especially since there's no tacti-crap on it.

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at April 14, 2013 08:36 AM (MnSla)

3 Only a couple of weeks until I get my "new" Springfield 03A4. Going to be fun sighting it in.

Posted by: Panhandler at April 14, 2013 08:36 AM (rZ5RE)

4 Ha, where can I get one of those shirts?

Posted by: Jay in Ames at April 14, 2013 08:39 AM (sBwRF)

5
Posted this prior, from Fox News the other day--seems the Marine Corps is going back to John Browning's little gem for a sidearm.

Guess you can't beat a proven winner after all.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 14, 2013 08:41 AM (SAMxH)

6 That's a nice spin; if you're gonna push for a universal background check then reciprocity for concealed carry is only Common Sense.

Posted by: Fritz at April 14, 2013 08:41 AM (WM+rJ)

7 So, when's Barky going to let the pro-gun Newtown dad take over his Saturday mic? Fair and balanced, and all.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 14, 2013 08:41 AM (lVPtV)

8 Speaking of guns, kinda related.... That photo on Drudge of someone launching a drone, is that Obama? Heh.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 14, 2013 08:42 AM (piMMO)

9 My conscience wasn't feeling good about having guns and no safe. Hiding them was sub-optimal, but I didn't have the money or room for an actual, heavy-duty safe. This week I bought a $175 Stack-On metal gun cabinet. The door lock can be popped easily with a crowbar, so I bought four 2' lengths of heavy 5/16" chain and bolted them to the sides of the cabinet, two near the top and two near the bottom. They cross in front where I join them with two padlocks. The whole thing is bolted down in my closet where it tucks in nice and tight and the side bolts are inaccessible. It will defeat a casual thief's crowbar, but probably not boltcutters or an angle grinder. Still, I'm feeling much better and unless the thief knows what he's dealing with, chances are he won't have the tools handy.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at April 14, 2013 08:44 AM (celt+)

10 ....This week I bought a $175 Stack-On metal gun cabinet..... Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at April 14, 2013 12:44 PM (celt+) It will be too small in 3, 2, 1.......... Everyone I know bitches about lack of room in the gun safe

Posted by: Jake in Idaho at April 14, 2013 08:47 AM (zzeVM)

11 Everyone I know bitches about lack of room in the gun safe

I look forward to the dream of my "gun bunker" someday.

Posted by: EC at April 14, 2013 08:49 AM (doBIb)

12 "It will be too small in 3, 2, 1..........

Everyone I know bitches about lack of room in the gun safe

Posted by: Jake in Idaho at April 14, 2013 12:47 PM (zzeVM)"

---------------

Roger that. Everyone says to buy twice the room you need. Really didn't have a choice. Besides, after I get my AR, I'll be set for boomsticks for years. I'm pretty well covered

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at April 14, 2013 08:50 AM (celt+)

13 Don't have a Model 12, but I've seen them clean up at the turkey shoots over the years. I am a sucker for walnut and blue/brown steel.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at April 14, 2013 08:50 AM (TVpIl)

14
Everybody but me,Jake--gun safe is just fine, my problem is AMMO storage. I have a serious situation with capacity right now, since The ammo shortage.

Never used to have to think excess, the stuff was just too easy to come by.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 14, 2013 08:50 AM (SAMxH)

15 Gun show in Chantilly, VA next weekend. I'll take a pass on it to do my part to tell the ammo sellers the price is too high.

Posted by: Die Trying at April 14, 2013 08:50 AM (w7J/R)

16 Shouldn't there be a rhino along with the donkey on those T-shirts?

Posted by: andycanuck at April 14, 2013 08:51 AM (mGBy8)

17 Look, a totally rational and sane response to a scenario where a young man killed his mother, stole her guns, and shot up a school (in a state with an Assault Weapons Ban no less), is to call for more gun sale "background checks" And if you wingnutz don't know that, you're totally EXTREME!!

Posted by: Jay in PA at April 14, 2013 08:52 AM (WSgyE)

18 I would like to see an NRA ad campaign that is simply card carrying members saying, "I am the NRA." Pretty much middle America and everyone else.

Posted by: mare at April 14, 2013 08:53 AM (A98Xu)

19 The WV sheriff who was slain was done-in by a man who passed a background check. There was, it seems, a delay "at the state level" which meant information which would have prevented his purchase did not get entered into the system. So, yeah, what we need is more bureaucracy. http://abcn.ws/128QFqX

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 14, 2013 08:53 AM (piMMO)

20 My cabinet is tiny (17" wide by 11" deep by 53" tall), but with clever packing and strategic installation of hooks, I've managed to squeeze in seven rifles, two shotguns, and twelve handguns. Or as CNN would call it, an "arsenal."

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at April 14, 2013 08:55 AM (celt+)

21 14 Try pocono gun supplies. They even have components

Posted by: DAve at April 14, 2013 08:56 AM (XDC0v)

22 Everyone I know bitches about lack of room in the gun safe

Posted by: Jake in Idaho at April 14, 2013 12:47 PM (zzeVM)

I need another gun safe for ammo.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at April 14, 2013 08:57 AM (yh0zB)

That's a nice spin; if you're gonna push for a universal background check then reciprocity for concealed carry is only Common Sense.

This is how the Right should be fighting every battle. Force the Left to make ugly trade offs. If they want universal background checks, demand concealed carry. If they want gay marriage, demand an end to no-fault divorce.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at April 14, 2013 08:57 AM (lr3d7)

24 I've had plenty of room in my safe since that tragic boating accident.

Posted by: Andy at April 14, 2013 08:58 AM (OZPoa)

25 I love Texas. We welcome any gun manufacturer who wants to move here. I loved the Nascar Pic btw. Oh I ran out room in the old safe (a 30 gun model I had many more crammed into). I tried to order one from Lowe's (a bigger model). I was told there is a nationwide gunsafe shortage and it would be months before delivery. Apparently every time Barky opens his yapper about gun control people buy lots of guns and ammo, a gun-safe, and also an angel gets his wings!

Posted by: Cartman's _Evil_Twin at April 14, 2013 08:58 AM (OiAIj)

26 Winchester model 12, Remington 870 and Mossberg 500, classics that you just can't go wrong with.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at April 14, 2013 08:59 AM (yh0zB)

27 Never used to have to think excess, the stuff was just too easy to come by. Posted by: irongrampa at April 14, 2013 12:50 PM (SAMxH) Since Bill Clinton signed an Executive Order in the 90's banning the importation of ammo for 90 days, I've always had 'inventory' minimums. once I get down to XX level, I restock

Posted by: Jake in Idaho at April 14, 2013 08:59 AM (zzeVM)

28 Preliminary news reports coming out to the effect that a disgraced former court official is to be charged with the Texas district attorney murders. Multiple reports that he's already been charged with making terroristic threats, but only the Daily Mail is flat out stating he'w going to be charged with the murders, so perhaps to be taken with a gran of salt: http://preview.tinyurl.com/d4yjqmq I'm concerned about the potential loss of the white supremacist conspiracy angle. This development has the potential to damage The Narrative.

Posted by: Wm T Sherman at April 14, 2013 09:00 AM (LJ2uj)

29 I've had plenty of room in my safe since that tragic boating accident.

Posted by: Andy at April 14, 2013 12:58 PM (OZPoa)

Sadly the only things that survived were my bolt-action Mosin and my Maverick pump shotgun.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at April 14, 2013 09:00 AM (yh0zB)

30 Taro Tsujimoto , I have the same. mounted securing in a closet with heavy chain, only around the waistline. They could break in , pry this and that, but they'll have to find it first and then spend the time. I'm counting on lack of time, though worst case, they'd find it and leave.. then come back later knowing what is available. Keeps weapons secure , but not "safe" from fire or theft really. Hiding them all over the house isn't too bad an idea if no kids .

Posted by: Charlie Gibsons nightmare at April 14, 2013 09:01 AM (/jHWN)

Sadly the only things that survived were my bolt-action Mosin and my Maverick pump shotgun.

Those assault weapons are clearly too dangerous for your hands, citizen. Surrender them immediately.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at April 14, 2013 09:01 AM (lr3d7)

32 What about Chris Murphy's old conviction on that Beagle puppy raping charge?

Posted by: TejasJudio de la Frontera at April 14, 2013 09:03 AM (lD8ju)

33 Taro, I agree that it would be nice to have one's firearms secured from theft, but I don't know if putting them in a chained-up metal cabinet is the best way to go about it. Think about it for a moment. What if a burglar enters your home while you are away, maybe on an extended trip? Burglar sees that safe, and immediately he knows there must be something worth stealing in there. If not guns, then maybe cash, or drugs. He immediately becomes motivated to break into it. Might as well have a flashing neon sign that says, "Guns Here". I live in a rural area, and furthermore, I have shop tools and cutting torches on hand in the shop, so it would be a piece of cake for burglar to use them to demolish any such safe I had here. I think I would be much better off relying on concealment to protect any firearms I might own from theft.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 14, 2013 09:03 AM (29+x5)

34 >I'm concerned about the potential loss of the white supremacist conspiracy angle. and that's why the story is in the UK's Daily Mail and not the WaPo

Posted by: Jones in CO at April 14, 2013 09:04 AM (8sCoq)

35 When I see Schumer and Mexcaine working together to turn us into helpless serfs, I am merely pissed at Schumer. After all, he is a Democrat. Mexcaine, on the other hand, is far worse. Both men are perfect examples of what is destroying this republic.

Posted by: eman at April 14, 2013 09:04 AM (71gyQ)

36 I thought about the poor narrative being slaughtered when I read that article too ( TX murderer charged ). This story down the memory hole doesn't forward agenda..

Posted by: Charlie Gibsons nightmare at April 14, 2013 09:04 AM (/jHWN)

37 >Think about it for a moment. What if a burglar enters your home while you are away, maybe on an extended trip? then it's a matter for the insurance company, and you and your family are safe

Posted by: Jones in CO at April 14, 2013 09:05 AM (8sCoq)

38 I've had plenty of room in my safe since that tragic boating accident. Posted by: Andy at April 14, 2013 12:58 PM (OZPoa) Golf Clap.......!!!!!

Posted by: Jake in Idaho at April 14, 2013 09:05 AM (zzeVM)

39
I hid my gun safe--a determined person could find it, but I figure that most burglars are into grab and run.

A straight breakin is only a problem for the goblin.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 14, 2013 09:06 AM (SAMxH)

40 I read somewhere yesterday that there are still about 50 Barretts down in Mexico somewhere. Here is an interesting link: http://tinyurl.com/c69e5cl

Posted by: Daybrother at April 14, 2013 09:08 AM (fEGqn)

41 Carry over from book thread. Just a verbal description of early PA weapons in various collections by H. Beam Piper. Even of a table knife sharpened into a dagger so an Italian could stab his step-daughter - item 85.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/20442/20442-h/20442-h.htm

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 14, 2013 09:09 AM (AgRBF)

42 I read somewhere yesterday that there are still about 50 Barretts down in Mexico somewhere. Here is an interesting link: http://tinyurl.com/c69e5cl Posted by: Daybrother at April 14, 2013 01:08 PM (fEGqn) most people can't shoot a Barrett for shit nasty pigs to be around all day

Posted by: Jake in Idaho at April 14, 2013 09:09 AM (zzeVM)

43 Even of a table knife sharpened into a dagger so an Italian could stab his step-daughter - item 85.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/20442/20442-h/20442-h.htm

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 14, 2013 01:09 PM (AgRBF)

We must ban these assault table-knives! It's for the CHILDRENNN!!!!!

what? You know you were thinking it.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at April 14, 2013 09:10 AM (yh0zB)

44 I have an Ithaca 37 that looks a lot like that from that left side shot.

Posted by: pat at April 14, 2013 09:12 AM (jlQR7)

45 most people can't shoot a Barrett for shit

nasty pigs to be around all day

Posted by: Jake in Idaho at April 14, 2013 01:09 PM (zzeVM)

Never shot a Barrett, but I have fired a mounted .50 (and sucked at it). It was fun, though.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at April 14, 2013 09:12 AM (yh0zB)

46 So the guy charged with three murders can we call him the 'Segway Shooter' now?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 14, 2013 09:13 AM (AgRBF)

47 GGE, ha!

I posted that just to show even back then people were creative in making weapons.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 14, 2013 09:14 AM (AgRBF)

48 OT: speaking of boat sinking, heh.. follow my sig/link to fantastic pics of silver/gold mine that experienced massive landslide in Utah. Pics down the page are awesome. Seriously you guys... and no one was killed. PM prices? Hmmm.

Posted by: Charlie Gibsons nightmare at April 14, 2013 09:15 AM (/jHWN)

49 So the guy charged with three murders can we call him the 'Segway Shooter' now? Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 14, 2013 01:13 PM (AgRBF) Absolutely! Wonder if the guy is a Democrat?

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 14, 2013 09:15 AM (29+x5)

I'm not sure that national RTC reciprocity is a big enough bargaining chip to make 'universal background checks' palatable.

it's a gun registry, or might as well be one, after all.

Posted by: knob at April 14, 2013 09:16 AM (H1bc7)

51 AWCA - Idaho Automatic Weapons Collectors' Association http://iawca.org/

Posted by: Jake in Idaho at April 14, 2013 09:16 AM (zzeVM)

52 The Austin P.D. decided they wanted new shotguns in 1988 and an FFL friend bought several of their surplus 12 gauges. I got a Model12 that had significant handling and rack marks but had never been fired for $100.

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at April 14, 2013 09:16 AM (MhA4j)

53 that would be IAWACA mysteriously dropped an 'I'

Posted by: Jake in Idaho at April 14, 2013 09:18 AM (zzeVM)

54 that Ithaca 37 is a fine gun. I think they are finally down for the count after a half dozen corporate reorganizations.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at April 14, 2013 09:18 AM (TVpIl)

55 NC concealed handgun course yesterday: 22 folks, 8 female, nine new NRA members.

Posted by: ceraphym at April 14, 2013 09:19 AM (laC4g)

56 I posted that just to show even back then people were creative in making weapons. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 14, 2013 01:14 PM (AgRBF) A regular screwdrive is a pretty good weapon right off the shelf Unless you get a Phillis by mistake....

Posted by: Jake in Idaho at April 14, 2013 09:23 AM (zzeVM)

57 Even a Phillips makes a pretty dandy stabbing implement.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at April 14, 2013 09:25 AM (yh0zB)

58 "Shove gun control" t-shirts here: http://tinyurl.com/cdj7llz

Posted by: real joe at April 14, 2013 09:26 AM (PD2ad)

59 Eight guns in the cockpits of those planes on 9/11 would have saved over three thousand lives in just that morning. I can't really give much a shit about Newtown versus our Bill of Rights Sorry, but good try

Posted by: TejasJudio de la Frontera at April 14, 2013 09:29 AM (lD8ju)

60 Everyone I know bitches about lack of room in the gun safe Posted by: Jake in Idaho at April 14, 2013 12:47 PM **** Film makers buy huge Liberty and Canon safes to put the dailies in for safe keeping. Sometimes you can pick them up for super cheap when the film wraps. Dean Safe in Los Angeles is a great source for these. I bought a Canon T-54 for $2500 delivered to my door.

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at April 14, 2013 09:32 AM (MhA4j)

2005-07 TV Series "It Takes a Thief" had former thieves break in and burglarize a home, with the owner's permission.

1. Thieves rarely had trouble getting in

2. Owners are shocked at how the thieves ransack the place, usually finding the "good" hiding places, and grabbing valuables

3. They usually finish in about 15 minutes, and sometimes load the owner's car inside the garage and steal the car, too.

So, for these guys, a bolted-down safe might be too much time and trouble, as long as the door wasn't easily pried open.

Posted by: Die Trying at April 14, 2013 09:34 AM (w7J/R)

62 Reading the two front-page articles on ESPN.com covering yesterday's NASCAR race would be lol-erffiic if it weren't so sad. I've never seen language contorted to such a degree just to avoid referring to an event by its name.

Pro tip, ESPN: you can try as hard as you want to appear thenthitive and caring by refusing to actually call the race the NRA 500. Guess what? It's still called the NRA 500 and you look hilariously absurd pretending otherwise-- or pretending that your refusal to use its proper name somehow makes a difference. FOAD.

Posted by: BK at April 14, 2013 09:37 AM (6KiQ+)

63 Appleseed shoots are great. Everyone should go.

Posted by: 0302 at April 14, 2013 09:40 AM (sRWlD)

64 Pretty sure Ithaca is still busy, in Upper Sandusky, Ohio.

It's true, concealment is 9/10 of security, not to say that you should not have a substantial safe in your hiding place. That's why my safe and cabinet are...

Oh, no. You can't get me to do that. Anyway, having a big, showy, otherwise-perfectly-good safe sitting right out in the living room is just asking for it.

A Certain Party just got a Dan Wesson .357, and is pretty pleased with it. Now need several holsters. Oddly enough, most six-inch-barrel revolver holsters are all cowboy'd up. This has the best factory trigger action I've ever felt. ("She said").

Posted by: comatus at April 14, 2013 09:44 AM (qaVK+)

65 Bringing over a comment from the ONT..... Just had a cool phone conversation with my sister-in-law earlier today. She just bought her first gun this afternoon (M&P22 pistol), while my brother bought his first AR15. They're both happy as clams. She's dying to get the whole family together at the range the next time I drive up to visit. Thing is, three years ago, with my brother she was all "you are NOT buying a gun and bringing it into this house". But things have changed enough that she INSISTED that I take her eldest son to the range a few months back for his first time. For those of you looking to conceal firearms in your home, this article is a great starting point. http://tinyurl.com/4jsfjta

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 14, 2013 09:48 AM (MBqvE)

66 Posted by: 0302 at April 14, 2013 01:40 PM (sRWlD)

====

I would love to go to an Appleseed and take the daughters as well. The problem for me an mine is distance. The last time I checked, the closest one was almost 300 miles away from me. Seems no range in the Houston area is interested, or maybe able to do them.

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at April 14, 2013 09:48 AM (MnSla)

67 Appleseed shoots..... seriously you guys.

Posted by: Charlie Gibsons nightmare at April 14, 2013 09:51 AM (/jHWN)

68 I wonder how long Chic-Fil-A has until ESPN.com starts reporting thusly:

ATLANTA, GA (AP): Jadeveon Clowney registered three quarterback sacks in what was likely his last collegiate game to lead #14 South Carolina (10-3) to a 32-29 triple-overtime victory over the Clemson Tigers (9-4) in an annual college football bowl game played in Atlanta, GA.

The game was overshadowed by protests of the game's title sponsor, The Fast Food Franchise Who Must Not Be Named, over marriage equality and the title sponsor's stubborn refusal to capitulate to a polling plurality supporting it. A crowd estimated between six and 6,000 protestors picketed the event, creating further controversy for the beleaguered sponsor.

Posted by: BK at April 14, 2013 09:52 AM (6KiQ+)

69 If you haven't done an Appleseed before, you should move Heaven and Earth to do it. The mix of marksmanship instruction and history lesson is awesome. You will learn, you will end up sweaty and filthy, you will shed blood in scraped knees and elbows, you will be exhausted. And it will all be worth it.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 14, 2013 09:54 AM (MBqvE)

70 58 "Shove gun control" t-shirts here:
http://tinyurl.com/cdj7llz

Posted by: real joe at April 14, 2013 01:26 PM (PD2ad)

===

Just ordered one. Thanks

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at April 14, 2013 09:56 AM (MnSla)

We need to nominate Perry for Prez in 2016.

Fuck Rubio and Christie.

Posted by: DRayRaven at April 14, 2013 10:05 AM (C51VE)

72 Anybody ever see the TV show about manufacturing cement? To clean clinkers off of the inside of the kiln they shoot them with a pintle mounted 10 gauge shotgun. Firing high brass magnum 4" shells loaded with slugs. The barrel of the shotgun looks to be about 5' long. They say all the new employees want the job, which they are gladly given. It turns out the noise from firing the shotgun down a 300' metal tunnel is enormous. So is the amount of dust kicked up. It still looks like fun. I'd give it a try in a heartbeat.

Posted by: Ed Anger at April 14, 2013 10:12 AM (tOkJB)

73 This thing still on? Sorry I'm late.

Was out doing something patriotic.

Buying ammo.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at April 14, 2013 10:23 AM (4Mv1T)

74 Have any of the morons / 'ettes tried the gun safe that is shipped to you disassembled ? Vaguely recall that it's made near the Illinois / Iowa border. Each part is manageable weight, but put together it's ... well, a big heavy gun safe.

Posted by: Steck at April 14, 2013 10:25 AM (RL7U1)

75 Everyone I know bitches about lack of room in the gun safe

Posted by: Jake in Idaho at April 14, 2013 12:47 PM (zzeVM)

I bought one much larger than I needed a while back, and now I feel compelled to fill it. I know a guy selling off an early CAI Cetme - any thoughts?

Posted by: StPatrick_TN at April 14, 2013 10:27 AM (un8zR)

76 #66 - Appleseed in Eunice, LA about 210 mi east of here. Meet you there in June with my son and a piece of my arsenal. Too bad I'll be losing them in an unfortunate tire changing accident on the Sabine River Bridge on the way home.

Posted by: Jackdaddy63 at April 14, 2013 10:27 AM (DS5Oe)

77 Buying ammo. Posted by: Tobacco Road at April 14, 2013 02:23 PM (4Mv1T) Want to hear a funny? The last ammo I sold was 1k of.223 for wait for it... $80USD It was steel cased w/ Laquer

Posted by: Jake in Idaho at April 14, 2013 10:28 AM (zzeVM)

78 58 "Shove gun control" t-shirts here: http://tinyurl.com/cdj7llz Posted by: real joe at April 14, 2013 01:26 PM (PD2ad) ~~~~~ thanks for the link

Posted by: Professor Unrat at April 14, 2013 10:30 AM (W6wuT)

79 So Jake- I understand that steel casings cause additional wear on a rifle. Does laquer impeded this, or just muck things up further.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at April 14, 2013 10:38 AM (4Mv1T)

80 Found the disassembled safe http://www.zanottiarmor.com/safes.htm

Posted by: Steck at April 14, 2013 10:44 AM (RL7U1)

81 Steel cases are rumored to wear out extractors more quickly, but I have also heard fact-based arguments that counter that from smiths. If you run lacquered cases through a gas-impingement gun (e.g. AR) and are running the rifle very hot, lacquer can build up in the chamber, which can eventually cause FTE and FTF issues.

Posted by: StPatrick_TN at April 14, 2013 10:46 AM (un8zR)

82 @74 Here you go: http://beesafeusa.com/

Son has one, swears by it. Couple of national rifle champions running that outfit.

Posted by: comatus at April 14, 2013 10:47 AM (qaVK+)

83 Thanks St Pat- This is what I imagined re: lacquer.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at April 14, 2013 10:48 AM (4Mv1T)

84 Another manufacturer of disassembled safes. http://www.snapsafe.com/

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 14, 2013 10:49 AM (MBqvE)

85 CAI Cetme - any thoughts? Posted by: StPatrick_TN at April 14, 2013 02:27 PM (un8zR) lots of fun, if it shoots ok Nothin like a semi auto .308 rifle to put a grin on your face....

Posted by: Jake in Idaho at April 14, 2013 10:50 AM (zzeVM)

86 a guy at the club took a carbine class and went through 2k of ammo, all steel case w/laquer. had no issues, it was all Wolf Nobody has ever asked him how long it took to clean the rifle afterwords, Wolf must put a pinch of Charcoal in their recipie cuz my experiance is it is dirty, dirty

Posted by: Jake in Idaho at April 14, 2013 10:57 AM (zzeVM)

87 So, for these guys, a bolted-down safe might be too much time and trouble, as long as the door wasn't easily pried open.

Posted by: Die Trying at April 14, 2013 01:34 PM (w7J/R)

----------------------------

Thanks, that's what I figured as well. My guess is that most thieves are opportunists who want a quick and easy job.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at April 14, 2013 10:58 AM (celt+)

88 "I know a guy selling off an early CAI Cetme - any thoughts?"

----------------------

I've never heard anything good about Century guns. YMMV.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at April 14, 2013 11:00 AM (celt+)

89 This sounds positive... Gun-Rights Leader: Â“We Snookered The Other Side Â– They HavenÂ’t Figured It Out YetÂ” On Toomey-Manchin Background Check Deal, We Made It A Â“Pro-Gun BillÂ”Â… http://tinyurl.com/crm29at A prominent gun-rights advocate claims his groupÂ’s staff was in the room during the drafting of the recently unveiled proposal to expand gun-purchase background checks and said that Â“we snookered the other side Â— they havenÂ’t figured it out yet.Â” ... Â“ItÂ’s a Christmas tree,Â” Mr. Gottlieb said. Â“We just hung a million ornaments on it.Â” Â“WeÂ’re taking the background check and making it a pro-gun bill,Â” he added. Â“Unfortunately, some of my colleagues havenÂ’t quite figured it out yet because they werenÂ’t sitting in the room writing it,Â” he continued. Â“My staff was. IÂ’ll be perfectly candid about it. This will probably break on Monday in the Wall Street Journal.Â”

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 14, 2013 11:00 AM (XYSwB)

90 ITC, thanks! The snapsafe looks to be way less expensive than the Zanotti, bonus. A good place to put my ever-growing Appleseed stuff (and all those student-loaner rifles, too).

Posted by: Steck at April 14, 2013 11:03 AM (RL7U1)

91 Thats my home defender, made in 1918, six in the magazine one in the chamber, 23 inches long due to a little mishap in a muddy cornfield sneaking up on mallards, makes it maneuverable through doorways and hallways. As fast as I can pump it, it fires if I hold the trigger down. Fast or faster than my semi auto Remington. # 4 , 2-3/4" copper plated turkey loads will handle anything inside my home, other plans for outside are in place.

Posted by: concealedkerry or submitt at April 14, 2013 11:05 AM (bpsQc)

92 Wolf is a marketer. They have sources in several nations. All their 7.62 may be Russian surplus, don't know for sure, but their target smallbore is very very good, made with Lapua cases, and on any given day (if you're lucky) may outshoot both Eley and Lapua. Of course, with smallbore the big thing is consistency. Ballistic "performance" can be fairly crappy, so long as the whole case lot is just the same.

Posted by: comatus at April 14, 2013 11:06 AM (qaVK+)

93 Just note that the hate group Southern Poverty Law Center considers any Project Appleseed group an anti-government, anti-tax, white power group, militia. Don't believe me look at their hate maps and look at military category, then compare to project Appleseed meets or groups. Just sharing because a couple of the ranges I use to go to out in VA before I moved to WA, were Appleseed ranges and we had Diversity Friendship Drum Circle protesters out calling us all sorts of names and since I had my kids with me a couple of times calling me a child abuser.

Posted by: Charles at April 14, 2013 11:11 AM (xCBSL)

94 I was finally able to fire my commie pistols yesterday morning and it's interesting to me that everything I had read about the Czech 82 and P64 from reviews on the internet was exactly what I found. The Czechs had a very acceptable DA and SA trigger, the recoil was manageable and the pistols were very consistent on grouping at 30 yards and in. One of the twain has a bit of grittiness to the trigger but the other is smooth as silk. The P64s were also very good at grouping and pointed very naturally in my hand. They were quite snappy though and you better have a good ring finger grip. As others have noted, the SA on the Poles is super light but the DA is simply ridiculous. Like squeezing one of those spring grip strengthener. Forget tip of the finger, you have to hook that sucker up by the second knuckle, or be stoked on adrenaline. One thing that surprised me was that I had no FTF or feed problems with the Russian Brown Bear. At all, in either model.

Posted by: toby928© at April 14, 2013 11:12 AM (QupBk)

95 I hid my gun safe--a determined person could find it, but I figure that most burglars are into grab and run.

A straight breakin is only a problem for the goblin.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 14, 2013 01:06 PM (SAMxH)

Same here they gotta find it first then it is surrounded by walls on three sides so access is only to the front. not much room to work on it so unless the thieves come with a backhoe I'm OK

Posted by: concealedkerry or submitt at April 14, 2013 11:12 AM (bpsQc)

96 Posted by: Charles at April 14, 2013 03:11 PM (xCBSL) Protesters at a Gun Range? Unbelievable.....

Posted by: Jake in Idaho at April 14, 2013 11:17 AM (zzeVM)

97 Yea protesters at a gun range post Beltway shooter. All because some pinhead pundit from either SPLC or the media had said this must be from any anti-goverment white man racist.

Posted by: Charles at April 14, 2013 11:29 AM (xCBSL)

98 @66 / JoethefatmanÂ™

The first one I went to was a solid two hours west, went with my buddy who was not a serious shooter at the time, we ate fast food and crashed at a roach trap off the highway to the tune of $50 a day apiece. Despite having to take a weekend away from a big family and the sort of ghetto travel, he has been dying to do it again since. It's just a matter of finding weekends with an Appleseed shoots where everything lines up.

@93 / Charles

SPLC can suck it. My Appleseed coaches actually shut down political speech when things veered off. History speaks for itself and you don't need to poison the well by filling it with partisan rhetoric. The historical/philosophical aspects of Appleseed shoots (speaking from a single experience) were Socratic - here's what happened, draw your own conclusions.

You can't learn to use a rifle cheaper than at an Appleseed shoot. It's very sound 100-level instruction. You're not learning drop or windage, you're not learning any high speed urban hide stuff... you're learning to shoot small groups. The amazing thing is there are guys shelling out ten times what an Appleseed weekend costs to go to various training facilities around the country and try to learn graduate level stuff without having these fundamentals down. I don't train to the Art of the Tactical Carbine standard. When I'm shooting on my own dime, I practice the same stuff you learn at an Appleseed shoot - stable position, natural point of aim, breathing, front sight focus, trigger pull, follow-through. Until those fundamentals are reflexive, you're wasting ammo with anything more advanced.

Posted by: 0302 at April 14, 2013 01:27 PM (9PtCx)

99 Beware I live...I am back from Ohio...anyone still here and shall I go over "accessorizing your evil black rifle?"

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at April 14, 2013 02:29 PM (LRFds)

100 Late to the thread but, my Appleseed experience mirrors that of other commentors, including the part about shutting down any discussion that might, in the most fevered imagination* be considered seditious. If you can, attend one.

* SPLC psychos excepted . . . they recently found some Catholic charities in my part of the country to be hate groups.

Posted by: The inexplicable Dr. Julius Strangepork at April 14, 2013 03:01 PM (8e28Q)

101 Ugh, Texas is going to end up a mess. He's inviting all the northern lefties to come on down. Conneticutions are amongst the worst lefties on the planet.

Posted by: Caustic at April 14, 2013 03:27 PM (/b8+5)

102 @toby928, I'm glad to hear your CZ82's and P64's worked out and you received good ones. I love mine. My wife is especially fond of one my P64's. You might as well say its hers now.

Posted by: Cartman's _Evil_Twin at April 14, 2013 04:09 PM (Sedwk)

103 My wife is especially fond of one my P64's. You might as well say its hers now. Posted by: Cartman's _Evil_Twin at April 14, 2013 08:09 PM (Sedwk) Yeah, my P-64's been commandeered as well. I really like that pistol, too.

Posted by: troyriser at April 14, 2013 04:25 PM (ptcFO)

104 @103 Troyriser. I think my wife likes the P-64 because its little and cute. She is very accurate with it though.

Posted by: Cartman's _Evil_Twin at April 14, 2013 05:01 PM (Sedwk)

105 Today, I cleaned the trigger group of the CZ82 with the crunchy trigger with brakecleaner and reoiled and it's considerable better. There's still something sticking just a bit though. I can see it in the action with the grips off. I'm hoping it just needs a little more break in because the thing looks brand new inside.

Posted by: toby928© at April 14, 2013 05:18 PM (QupBk)

106 And since your wives like the P64 so much, I wonder if having smaller hands is a plus. I can either squeeze my pinky in, or hook it over the mag extension, so it's just the tiniest bit too small for my hand. They don't think it's too snappy?

Posted by: toby928© at April 14, 2013 05:20 PM (QupBk)

107 They don't think it's too snappy? Posted by: toby928Â© at April 14, 2013 09:20 PM (QupBk) She doesn't now, but did when I first bought it. I did a trigger job on the P-64's atrocious DA trigger, replacing the mainspring so it doesn't require hiring a Viking dude named Ragnar to help pull the DA trigger, and then replaced the recoil spring with a more powerful Wolff spring. After that, I did a fluff and buff on everything, so the action is as smooth as I can make it. There's still some snap to the recoil, but not nearly what it was, and the DA trigger is now superior to nearly every other handgun I own (with the notable exception of my Smith and Wesson Model 14-2 K38 Target Masterpiece 38 SPL revolver, which has the best SA and DA trigger actions I've ever encountered anywhere).

Posted by: troyriser at April 14, 2013 06:54 PM (ptcFO)

108 Toby, The CZ 82 is my carry gun. I like the 12 in the magazine. My wife does not like the CZ 82 (too big for her hands ). She did think the P-64 was a little snappy at first, but after practicing with about 50 rounds she acclimated to it. I have heard you can change out the hammer spring to a Wolf (18 lb spring) that lessens the DA pull to about 9 lbs or so. I think its a 3 spring pack (Haven't ordered it yet). Replace the firing pin spring, but leave the trigger spring alone. I heard you can also change out the recoil spring for a 22 lb spring to lessen the snap. I may put different grips on it for her too to make it more comfortable. I will choose pink grips , or mother of pearl (make it all purty) so there's no way I accidentally grab her P-64.

Posted by: Cartman's _Evil_Twin at April 14, 2013 07:00 PM (Sedwk)

109 I think its a 3 spring pack (Haven't ordered it yet). Replace the firing pin spring, but leave the trigger spring alone.

Posted by: Cartman's _Evil_Twin at April 14, 2013 11:00 PM (Sedwk)

If by 'trigger spring' you mean the mainspring, then you're putting out questionable advice. The P-64 DA trigger is virtually unusable if left at 30 lbs., and is considered one of the worst DA triggers of just about any quality semiautomatics one can mention (I'm not talking potmetal junk firearms made by such luminaries of junk as Bryco, Jimenez, or Jennings). The only DA trigger that comes close to P-64 awfulness is the DAO-only AMT Backup 45, but the 17 lb. trigger on the AMT Backup (a large caliber pocket pistol) is primarily because the heavy trigger serves as its sole safety feature. (I own the AMT Backup, btw. An old revolver guy, I don't mind a heavy DA trigger pull as long as it's smooth.)

While no gunsmith, I replaced the P-64 mainspring easily enough in about 30 minutes with a few rudimentary tools. Replacing it with a lighter spring has reduced DA to (an estimated) 10 lbs or so and has caused no problems whatsoever.

Posted by: troyriser at April 14, 2013 08:49 PM (ptcFO)

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